00:00:27 antifuchs: I'm overly annoyed by the heap limit... so I ignore acl beyond the requests of friends like you trying to use our libs until I'm granted a free licence. I've pushed a fix to hu.dwim.def if you want to extract a bug report: http://dwim.hu/darcsweb/darcsweb.cgi?r=HEAD%20hu.dwim.def;a=commitdiff;h=20101216235803-6b9e8-61cc5332161baa9bf9f3d7f29bcd032959cd8e5c.gz 00:00:37 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 00:00:51 thanks 00:01:00 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 00:01:00 I'll see what I can do about the heap limit thing (: 00:01:07 I can't test the walker itself, because of the heap limit 00:01:44 I have the skills to get rid of it myself, but I'm not motivated enough... ;) 00:02:23 but if I had a licence, I'd be certainly more effective in helping to make our libs work on allegro 00:02:25 *antifuchs* I should mention that my utterly stupid code walker does its thing pretty well, though (-: 00:02:34 it didn't take me as long to write as I'd expected, so yay (: 00:03:14 if you will not feed in random code fragments then you're probably fine with something simple 00:03:43 -!- Frakk [~Frakk@host56-50-dynamic.3-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Frakk] 00:03:44 yeah, and my requirements are to just check for funcalls and stuff. it's pretty easy to do that (: 00:04:55 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-168.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 00:04:59 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:06:27 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:06:35 -!- Krystof [~csr21@cpc1-bour2-0-0-cust414.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:08:32 Does onyone know why on earth description of depth first search like to classify the edges (tree, forward, cross, and back) when the only interesting kind is back edges? 00:09:12 Seems like whether an edge is considered tree, forward, or cross is totally a function of what order you explore the nodes. 00:09:45 askatasuna [~askatasun@host230.190-3-1.static.telmex.net.ar] has joined #lisp 00:09:46 -!- s1ugg0 [~chris@net-216-37-86-189.in-addr.worldspice.net] has quit [Quit: good-bye] 00:09:47 The classification probably serves other purposes too. 00:10:19 pjb: Such as? That's what I'm trying to figure out. 00:10:35 back edges are clearly interesting because they tell your graph is cyclic. 00:12:58 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@host230.190-3-1.static.telmex.net.ar] has quit [Client Quit] 00:13:17 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:13:22 pnq [~nick@AC81EFD4.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 00:13:43 -!- craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:14:30 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@dsl51B7BBB9.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:16:59 alexsuraci [~alex@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:17:18 -!- alexsuraci [~alex@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:17:43 alexsuraci [~alex@pool-71-188-133-67.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:27:11 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-76-102-192-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:27:48 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-145-131.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:28:19 -!- DrForr [~drforr@pool-98-112-230-87.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:29:46 DrForr [~drforr@pool-98-112-230-87.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:32:15 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-228-29.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:34:06 new-lisper [~daniel@c95334ae.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 00:36:33 -!- tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:39:25 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.14.176] has joined #lisp 00:39:41 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483A1A9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:41:09 fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 00:41:28 Vicfred [~Vicfred@201.102.56.236] has joined #lisp 00:41:29 drdo [~user@bl5-19-103.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 00:43:01 -!- entropax [~entropi@192.55.54.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:45:03 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.20] has joined #lisp 00:45:44 fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-161-176.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 00:51:07 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:54:52 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.224.57] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:55:46 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:56:56 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@114.240.81.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:57:24 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:58:08 kmwallio [~kmwallio@pool-96-241-63-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:00:27 someone has cl-mongrel2 runing? i lose the msg in the hanlder demo, thanks 01:01:24 sabalaba [~sabalaba@114.240.81.3] has joined #lisp 01:02:07 salva_oz: i still haven't seen anyone mention it. 01:02:29 the problem or the lib? 01:02:33 -!- skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has left #lisp 01:03:36 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.216.36] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 01:04:21 cl-mongrel2 is a libray for connect with mongrel2 web server using zeromg messages 01:04:31 zeromq 01:05:31 -!- pinkwerks [2679e0fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.38.121.224.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:06:11 do you recommend any lisp to a friend with no previous programming knowledge? 01:06:22 -!- cowhm [~Android@98.sub-174-254-17.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:06:59 -!- z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:07:07 cowhm [~Android@126.sub-174-254-5.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 01:08:17 -!- mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has quit [Quit: home] 01:11:19 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-14-123.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:11:47 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-56-100.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 01:13:10 new-lisper: what are you/he wanting to do? 01:13:46 jimrthy: she just wants to learn for the fun of it 01:15:46 new-lisper: It seems to me that racket scheme is probably the gentlest and newbie-friendly (this coming from pretty much a complete and total newb, who isn't really qualified to be posting on here) 01:16:10 new-lisper: Sure, why not? 01:17:04 Yeah, I've considered Racket, but, as I don't really have used it a lot _and_ she has a horrible English, I don't think she'll be able to go through it. 01:17:36 Although it's a good Lisp/Scheme to run in Windows 01:19:35 sadeness [~vik@pdpc/supporter/active/sadeness] has joined #lisp 01:20:03 But now I was thinking LispWorks Personal Edition works fine on Windows, what about it? 01:20:19 I think racket has translations 01:20:53 does it? 01:21:12 well, i'll google it 01:21:59 seems tricky to get started in anything with horrible english 01:22:49 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h137n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:24:50 ok, it's not that bad, but _I_ wouldn't exactly trust it 01:25:00 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:26:03 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-158-125.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: "Object-oriented design" is an oxymoron] 01:26:29 well, I've settled down on Racket. I was thinking about some Common Lisp, but, well, she is not going to write more than some toy programs 01:26:34 thank you all 01:26:36 (: 01:27:34 -!- superflit_ [~superflit@140.226.49.160] has quit [Quit: superflit_] 01:27:40 cools 01:27:46 new-lisper: good luck 01:27:54 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:28:04 schmx: thx 01:29:58 paradoja [~paradoja@208.pool85-60-53.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 01:31:38 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 01:33:19 new-lisper: DrRacket's interface has a number of translations, and htdp is also translated into several languages (though the non-english ones are probably not free on the web); also, bear in mind that it's not really a "Scheme" and is perfectly capable of much more than toy programs. 01:34:26 eli: yeah, I get it 01:38:01 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 01:40:11 JuniorRoy [~Work@ns.nkmk.ru] has joined #lisp 01:40:35 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:42:04 cnirrad [~darrin@ip68-13-142-241.om.om.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:42:25 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 01:44:17 kanru [~kanru@61.57.131.211] has joined #lisp 01:46:07 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7569f4.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:48:53 nefo [~nefo@2402:f000:5:8f01::143:81] has joined #lisp 01:48:53 -!- nefo [~nefo@2402:f000:5:8f01::143:81] has quit [Changing host] 01:48:53 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 01:50:58 -!- snorble [~snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:52:43 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 01:53:08 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.60.128] has joined #lisp 01:53:45 brandonz [~brandon@c-76-102-192-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:56:38 -!- new-lisper [~daniel@c95334ae.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:01:25 -!- sixpoint8 [~jaykub@ip68-12-204-131.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Someone, roundhouse kick yardbucket for me!] 02:04:58 iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@61.43.139.4] has joined #lisp 02:07:10 murilasso [~murilasso@201.53.192.190] has joined #lisp 02:07:27 -!- kmwallio [~kmwallio@pool-96-241-63-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:08:11 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:09:13 -!- jweiss [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:10:40 iwillig [~ivan@ool-18b944f4.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:11:16 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:11:33 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:13:24 sixpoint8 [~jaykub@ip68-12-204-131.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:13:29 pinkwerks [~pinkwerks@cpe-74-68-129-122.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:14:31 -!- sixpoint8 [~jaykub@ip68-12-204-131.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:22:25 SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 02:22:41 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Quit:] 02:26:55 sorry that this is a dumb question, but what is the one-keyword way to say (not (some ...)) ? 02:27:12 <_3b> clhs notany 02:27:34 ahhhh, that's why "clhs none" didn't give me any results 02:28:41 thanks much 02:32:10 -!- paradoja [~paradoja@208.pool85-60-53.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:35:57 is there a way to (trace ..) a function created by (labels ... ) 02:35:59 ? 02:36:19 *_3b* thinks some implementations can, but doesn't know details 02:36:52 *yan_* is using sbcl 02:39:45 cmucl can trace (some) labels. Don't know if sbcl can. 02:40:29 *rtoym* is stumped by a totally broken unix-uname. Random garbage returned. But can't figure out why. The assembly looks right. 02:40:59 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: night.] 02:43:21 homie` [~user@xdsl-78-35-174-101.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:43:23 -!- fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:44:05 sixpoint8 [sixpoint8@d-ip-129-15-78-81.cs.ou.edu] has joined #lisp 02:44:23 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 02:45:11 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-84-44-210-11.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:46:46 -!- sixpoint8 [sixpoint8@d-ip-129-15-78-81.cs.ou.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 02:49:11 sixpoint8 [sixpoint8@d-ip-129-15-78-81.cs.ou.edu] has joined #lisp 02:49:57 When I get tired of reading and typing in examples, or doing homework problems, I'm puttering around with a "delusions of grandeur project" [a smalltalk-like IDE] that I've been wanting to write for years. Right now, I'm thinking it'll be heavily based on McCLIM. This question probably belongs on that mailing list, but I figured I'd air it on IRC first (esp. since that list doesn't get much love these days). Part of me thinks I should build on 02:49:59 Ah! It's because it's really called nuname, not uname! 02:50:34 jimrthy: build on what? 02:50:36 Arggh...sorry, didn't realize that question was anywhere near that long 02:51:34 rtoym: McCLIM, plus current libraries that didn't make it into the standard, like Gray Streams 02:52:18 jimrthy: it's only a delusion if you don't succeed :D 02:52:53 McCLIM requires Gray streams, I think. But go for it! I've never used or seen the smalltalk-ide, but it sounds like a cool project. 02:52:54 Ralith: Heh, thanks :D 02:53:01 jimrthy: but lisp is tied pretty tightly to SLIME for most people, at least around here; what might you offer to attract me away from that? 02:53:09 jimrthy: Hey I had that delusion some time back :) 02:53:10 I'm not familiar with smalltalk's IDE 02:53:20 Ralith: Think of heaven. 02:53:25 but send messages to heaven. 02:53:37 schmx: does heaven have full emacs keybinds? >_> 02:53:41 i text god once in a while, does that count? 02:53:51 Only if he answers. 02:53:56 jimrthy: I think most lispers don't really like using their mouse though :) 02:54:03 ^ 02:54:15 Ralith: Well you could dump a climacs in there (: 02:54:22 schmx: that could work! 02:54:34 Ralith: The biggest things (for me) are a GUI to browse systems/packages/classes/messages. And a simple interface to [re]-define new ones 02:54:54 Climacs/DREI will definitely be heavily involved 02:55:03 jimrthy: that sounds pretty nice, actually. 02:55:04 DREI? 02:55:13 I don't see it offering much to experienced Lispers 02:55:34 state browsers strike me as useful to anyone. 02:55:56 DREI is the "official" editor...these days, climacs seems like an experiment that is toying with different buffer implementations 02:56:00 *p_l|backup* found himself to be jealous, for some reason, of logical pathname window 02:56:23 Ryan__ [~Ryan@12.107.119.130] has joined #lisp 02:56:46 jimrthy: So are you thinking of having the system/package/generic functions/objects hierarchy instead, or what is the plan? 02:57:08 jimrthy: Actually the second I saw CLIMs presentation methods smalltalk IDE was the first thing that hit my head :) 02:57:10 My real question is about having a blah-lisp package that exports everything from CL, then shadows a few of them 02:57:44 conduits? 02:57:56 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@114.240.81.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:58:54 schmx: That's pretty much exactly the way I figured things would break down 02:59:47 With some sort of interface in there for the specialized methods, and standard functions 03:00:34 I don't want to even *think* about trying to capture things like closures or labels, but I think there's a lot of low-hanging fruit for the simpler stuff 03:01:38 jimrthy: It's an interesting project indeed. 03:01:56 jimrthy: and a nice IDE both in looks and useability is always nice 03:02:03 and one could finally uninstall emacs \o/ 03:02:14 p_l|backup: Thanks, I think that's exactly what I was looking for 03:02:41 schmx: Thanks...I'll be sure to let everyone know if it ever becomes non-vaporware 03:02:59 jimrthy: I wish you the best of luck :) 03:03:36 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:03:38 schmx: Thank you 03:03:47 tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 03:09:01 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203074432]] 03:09:54 vlion` [~user@76.178.165.160] has joined #lisp 03:10:51 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-213-220-225-182.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:10:55 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:13:45 TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@202-173-164-188.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 03:14:01 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-78-35-174-101.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:14:22 billitch [~billitch@rob92-1-82-67-155-88.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 03:14:49 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 03:15:27 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:17:42 rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 03:20:10 -!- drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:21:31 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-174-101.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:22:48 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:25:40 -!- fds [~frankie@ajax.webvictim.net] has quit [Changing host] 03:25:41 fds [~frankie@unaffiliated/franki] has joined #lisp 03:31:56 -!- Ryan__ [~Ryan@12.107.119.130] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:32:16 psilord [~psilord@ppp-70-226-164-134.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 03:32:23 -!- psilord [~psilord@ppp-70-226-164-134.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has left #lisp 03:32:26 -!- cnirrad [~darrin@ip68-13-142-241.om.om.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:34:41 cnirrad [~darrin@ip68-13-142-241.om.om.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:35:36 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:38:04 superflit_ [~superflit@c-24-9-162-197.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:38:59 -!- superflit [~superflit@c-24-9-162-197.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:38:59 -!- superflit_ is now known as superflit 03:40:28 timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-99-170.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 03:41:37 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.199] has joined #lisp 03:41:46 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-139-2.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:43:49 xiackok_ [~xiackok@94.54.7.3] has joined #lisp 03:44:43 -!- billitch [~billitch@rob92-1-82-67-155-88.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:46:13 hi 03:46:57 billitch [~billitch@rob92-1-82-67-155-88.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 03:48:25 -!- cnirrad [~darrin@ip68-13-142-241.om.om.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:49:04 -!- kanru [~kanru@61.57.131.211] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:49:45 how can i find downloaded lisp packages via quicklisp? 03:50:36 kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has joined #lisp 03:51:39 folklore [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/folklore] has joined #lisp 03:51:52 hi guys what pastebin do you prefer for lisp 03:55:10 -!- billitch [~billitch@rob92-1-82-67-155-88.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:55:18 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:55:49 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 03:56:29 guidj0s [~gdjs@187.39.191.205] has joined #lisp 03:56:34 billitch [~billitch@rob92-1-82-67-155-88.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 03:57:12 i believe it is paste.lisp.org/new/lisp 03:58:55 -!- TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@202-173-164-188.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Disconnected by services] 03:58:56 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.20] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 03:59:02 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.60.128] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 03:59:27 TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@124-148-35-106.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 03:59:52 -!- ebzzry [~ebzzry@203.213.202.186] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:01:16 -!- ymasory [~ymasory@grok.psych.upenn.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:02:35 jenia [~jenia2009@modemcable148.172-23-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 04:03:53 morphbot [~morphbot@p57B579B1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:03:55 -!- morphbot [~morphbot@p57B579B1.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 04:04:00 can anyone see what is the problem here? 04:04:06 its a mymax function 04:04:06 http://pastebin.com/hJ79yqFG 04:04:55 I take it all those pastes are public holycow? 04:05:03 doesn't sounds very good to me 04:05:17 jenia everyone hates pastebin btw 04:05:32 i don't hate pastebin 04:05:38 why would anyone hate a service like that? 04:05:47 (defun mymax(list) 04:05:59 (if (atom (cdr list)) 04:06:07 <_3b> jenia: what does > return? 04:06:10 anyway, yeah its public, i don't know of one that has accounts and privacy controls if you need that 04:06:17 <_3b> jenia: and don't paste the code into the channel 04:06:19 (car list) 04:06:26 pastebin.com and .ca most hate it 04:06:29 cause its slow etc... idk 04:06:36 thats stupid 04:06:39 thx for links though have a good one 04:06:42 okay. 04:06:46 don't believe me 04:06:47 i think you need to borrow another opinion from somewhere other than digg.com 04:06:50 paste that in uh 04:06:53 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 04:07:00 channel python probably or perl 04:07:03 i dont understand, what do you mean what does > return? 04:07:04 <_3b> lisppaste > all due to paren matching and clhs links :p 04:07:06 they have a bot that auto pastest somewhere else 04:07:14 -!- folklore [debian-tor@gateway/tor-sasl/folklore] has left #lisp 04:07:22 <_3b> jenia: the function >, you use it in your definition of mymax 04:07:50 oh, it mean bigger 04:08:05 <_3b> jenia: for example what does (> 3 2) return 04:08:12 3 04:08:18 <_3b> are you sure? 04:08:38 well, hehehe, maybe 2 but theres a syntax error in the code 04:08:44 jenia, nope. 04:08:52 ohh 04:08:56 ups. okay i see 04:08:58 hehe 04:09:16 okay, so i guess i have to build another function that rturn bigger 04:09:23 okay, thanks 04:09:34 (define (greatestoftwo x y) (if (> x y) x y)) 04:09:44 yea, thanks so much 04:09:54 guidj0s and _3b 04:10:06 what? 04:10:32 thank you for your help 04:10:39 oh, ok. No problem. 04:11:18 isn't that `max'? 04:11:31 yea, im practicing 04:11:33 ;) 04:12:07 see 04:18:59 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-76-102-192-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:19:28 jenia: (> 3 2) may return 3, or 2, or 1, or whatever but nil. 04:21:10 pjb, so, "true". 04:21:22 Exactly. 04:21:47 The point is that > doesn't specify a specific true value. Contrarly, eg. digit-char-p 04:22:18 I think he remembered that ;) 04:23:25 DEFINE !?!? 04:23:47 Well, they're both generalized booleans. 04:23:52 schmx, it can be used to define things. 04:25:42 guidj0s: You sure? 04:26:16 schmx, yes. 04:26:20 parolang [~user@c-64-246-121-114.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 04:26:23 schmx: assumedly. It is most probably a macro doing the same as in scheme. 04:26:24 guidj0s: I just get the "Undefined function: DEFINE" 04:26:25 -!- TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@124-148-35-106.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:26:37 Ya I'm just being grumpy ;) 04:26:43 schmx: because you didn't fetch one of the various definitions I or somebody else wrote. 04:27:07 well all I saw was some pastebin and I can't grab that :) 04:30:39 -!- iwillig [~ivan@ool-18b944f4.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:31:35 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:31:51 -!- sadeness [~vik@pdpc/supporter/active/sadeness] has quit [Quit: :-P] 04:35:25 TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@124-148-40-175.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 04:35:57 sabalaba [~sabalaba@119.57.31.97] has joined #lisp 04:37:45 nostoi [~nostoi@187.Red-79-148-56.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 04:37:56 -!- billitch [~billitch@rob92-1-82-67-155-88.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:41:00 superflit_ [~superflit@c-24-9-162-197.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:41:49 lclark [~user@ip70-181-163-100.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:50:01 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@119.57.31.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:54:09 -!- rorye [~opera@203-206-172-3.perm.iinet.net.au] has left #lisp 04:57:26 -!- somnium [~user@184.42.0.205] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:58:44 -!- az [~az@p5796C353.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:01:00 -!- jimrthy [~jimrthy@ip68-13-249-220.ok.ok.cox.net] has left #lisp 05:01:15 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 05:02:21 ebzzry [~ebzzry@112.202.227.224] has joined #lisp 05:03:10 sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has joined #lisp 05:08:38 az [~az@p4FE4EE21.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:08:41 -!- horze [~kim@c-740972d5.24-87-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: horze] 05:09:59 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-221-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:10:15 evening 05:19:56 hello. 05:24:12 -!- NNshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 05:24:20 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 05:24:40 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:26:10 hey gigamonkey, I put up a branch of monkeylib-binary-data that uses alexandria on github 05:27:31 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoy@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:28:16 oh, and I wanted your feedback on my new binary-type: "dynamic". there's probably a better way to do that, but I couldn't figure it out. 05:29:31 whoops. I see I forgot to push that. fixed. 05:30:03 Snamich [~Snamich@75-128-11-42.dhcp.snlo.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 05:32:00 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.20] has joined #lisp 05:32:05 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@187.Red-79-148-56.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 05:33:17 slyrus: cool. I'll try to take a look soon. 05:33:25 ok, thanks 05:33:28 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 05:34:11 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:36:31 Hmmm. How come when I look at your fork all the files have my commit comment? 05:36:44 Except the .asd. 05:37:00 Which still depends on com.gigamonkeys.macro-utilities. 05:37:19 kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-dfbqnyihoajokcaz] has joined #lisp 05:37:19 -!- kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-dfbqnyihoajokcaz] has quit [Changing host] 05:37:19 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:37:20 gigamonkey: https://github.com/slyrus/monkeylib-binary-data/tree/alexandria 05:37:44 or click on the somewhat hidden "switch branches" label/button/thingy 05:38:50 Okay, I see the change to alexandria but no dynamic type. 05:40:09 that's in https://github.com/slyrus/iso-media/blob/master/binary-data-extensions.lisp 05:40:19 Ah. 05:40:31 *gigamonkey* is lost in a maze of twisty repos, all different. 05:40:36 which could easily go into binary-data, but it was analogous to the "optional" type, so I placed it next to it 05:40:42 yeah, yeah :) 05:41:21 putting more stuff into a canonical binary-datatypes library (and having that library depend on fewer non-widely distributed libraries) would be a good thing, but, hey, one step at a time :) 05:41:22 Do you have an example use of dynamic. 05:41:32 -!- TheSeparateOne [~jeffrey@ip72-207-124-108.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:41:51 slyrus: you're behind the times. There's no such thing as non-widely distributed libraries in the Age of Quicklisp. 05:42:12 that is true, but fewer exported with-gensyms is also a goal! 05:42:35 -!- parolang [~user@c-64-246-121-114.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:42:44 https://github.com/slyrus/iso-media/blob/master/iso-media.lisp#L133 05:43:16 the idea behind this, rather than, say, using optional, is that I want the field to be named the same, but to have a different type based on some other data 05:52:31 PCChris [~PCChris@cpe-69-135-187-90.woh.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:55:22 -!- mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 05:56:41 TheSeparateOne [~jeffrey@ip72-207-124-108.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:56:54 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive_] 05:57:51 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:59:50 Is there are particular reason you chose to pass a function to then funcall? 06:00:37 Unless I'm misunderstanding my code, you could easily allow something like (dynamic :choose (if (= 1 (version (current-binary-object))) 'u8 'u4)) 06:01:08 sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:01:19 -!- dym [~dym@217.20.175.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:01:31 Maybe I'm wrong about that. I'm tired. 06:02:11 -!- pierrep [~pierrep@bas1-montreal43-2925384990.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:03:04 churib [~tg@dslc-082-082-099-065.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 06:03:04 churib1 [~tg@dslc-082-082-099-065.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 06:04:56 ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-233-195-101.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 06:05:41 -!- jenia [~jenia2009@modemcable148.172-23-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:11:04 hmm... yes, that does seem to work. thanks! 06:12:18 plage [~user@113.161.72.9] has joined #lisp 06:12:33 -!- cowhm [~Android@126.sub-174-254-5.myvzw.com] has quit [Quit: -a-] 06:14:01 Good afternoon everyone! 06:14:12 my only (stylistic) gripe is that it isn't obvious when that form gets evaluated 06:14:16 evening plage! 06:17:45 is 'dynamic-extent' an old idiom for 'dynamic'? 06:20:25 clhs dynamic-extent 06:20:26 -!- Intensity [CoFsRM7gjg@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:20:31 No. It's refering to dynamic extent. 06:24:18 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81EFD4.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:25:01 -!- shachaf [~shachaf@208.69.183.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:25:27 No. 06:27:01 s/./?/; You mean that the form qigamonkey wrote refers to something else? 06:27:33 He wasn't referring to dynamic-extent, afaik. 06:28:22 * gigamonkey 06:29:41 *JuanDaugherty* goes to try and put Search For Method and Critique of Dialectical Reason in context. 06:31:26 dym [~dym@217.20.175.226] has joined #lisp 06:36:30 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 06:42:36 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:44:30 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 06:45:46 shachaf [~shachaf@208.69.183.87] has joined #lisp 06:49:14 -!- dym [~dym@217.20.175.226] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:49:50 -!- timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-99-170.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:50:13 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:55:48 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.226.41] has joined #lisp 06:56:15 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.106.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:58:15 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.99.72] has joined #lisp 06:59:39 dym [~dym@217.20.175.226] has joined #lisp 07:00:03 fusss [~fusss@1.144.184.208] has joined #lisp 07:00:46 ebzzry_ [~ebzzry@203.213.202.186] has joined #lisp 07:01:23 -!- iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@61.43.139.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:01:46 -!- ebzzry [~ebzzry@112.202.227.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:02:36 greetings 07:03:12 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-161-176.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:03:33 Poll: is it still considered banal and objectionable to distribute apps with java swing GUIs? it's easier for me, I can switch to Qt for an open source app. 07:03:59 for sure it's off topic in #lisp 07:04:20 I am asking because I myself was loath to see anything java, until I learned; now find it tolerable with PLAF 07:04:31 -!- ebzzry_ is now known as ebzzry 07:04:32 JuanDaugherty: it's a Lisp app, for lispers 07:04:44 -!- vlion` [~user@76.178.165.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:05:01 presumably in venues like #lisp, #haskell, etc., anything java would be to some extent banal 07:05:17 but objectionable seems to overreach 07:05:53 I find swing guis objectionable on usability levels, but I suppose it's better than nothing (: 07:06:15 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-175-101.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:06:18 have you seen the win32 LispIDE? I want to make that cross-platform, and write in Lisp, so newbs can M-. and be as awed as I was with Hemlock in CMUCL :-) 07:06:19 and there is clojure or whatever 07:06:37 -!- retrry [~quassel@b4.vu.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:07:12 retrry [~quassel@b4.vu.lt] has joined #lisp 07:07:38 slyrus: you're telling me. Even looking at the code, I couldn't figure out really when it gets evaluated. ;-) 07:07:54 JuanDaugherty: no, there's ABCL and CLforJava. 07:07:58 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-24-4-147-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 07:08:01 We're not in #clojure 07:08:33 hmm, so there's more than one even. 07:08:43 In general it seems like the right answer should be, "right as we're reading that slot and therefore after any preceeding slots have been read" 07:08:52 If it's not, I'd probably construe that as a bug. 07:08:59 JuanDaugherty: well, CLforJava is being developed, as a student project. 07:09:01 But I'm off to bed now. 07:09:02 -!- daniel___ is now known as daniel 07:09:21 pjb, got it. 07:15:20 gigamonkey: well, yeah, but the case without the lambda was more surprising than the one with! 07:17:29 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 07:18:28 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 07:21:02 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-158-218.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:21:02 xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-1-73.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:22:15 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:22:32 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 07:28:08 zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has joined #lisp 07:35:01 -!- fusss [~fusss@1.144.184.208] has left #lisp 07:37:22 buckwheat [~rtaylor@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 07:37:50 -!- xiackok_ [~xiackok@94.54.7.3] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:39:38 jhuni [~jhuni@udp217774uds.hawaiiantel.net] has joined #lisp 07:40:04 ok, gnight gigamonkey 07:40:22 sabalaba [~sabalaba@119.57.31.97] has joined #lisp 07:40:43 -!- incandenza [~quassel@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 07:40:59 incandenza [~quassel@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:42:35 -!- plage [~user@113.161.72.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:43:39 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-158-125.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:48:29 fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 07:48:59 -!- az [~az@p4FE4EE21.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:49:38 HET2 [~diman@host81-149-242-213.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #lisp 07:53:35 snorble [~snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 07:54:35 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.226.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:58:46 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 08:02:35 mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 08:02:35 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 08:02:35 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 08:03:08 az [~az@p4FE4F309.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:04:54 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 08:05:39 -!- Snamich [~Snamich@75-128-11-42.dhcp.snlo.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Snamich] 08:06:37 -!- defn_ is now known as defn 08:06:41 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@119.57.31.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:06:55 jenia [~jenia2009@modemcable148.172-23-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 08:06:58 hello everyone 08:07:12 can someone please tell me of a good tutorial for curses lisp? 08:07:26 or any other library to output something to the screen 08:07:28 -!- defn is now known as devn 08:07:33 s1ugg0 [~chris@c-75-64-77-87.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:07:49 I only want to learn functional programming and to output some fractals to the screen 08:07:52 for example 08:08:35 abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 08:09:31 jenia: http://paste.lisp.org/display/77570 08:11:42 thank you very much 08:13:29 jenia: there's also http://www.cliki.net/graphics%20toolkit and http://www.cliki.net/graphics%20library 08:14:23 jenia: although I have only used cl-gtk2, cl-opengl, vecto and okra of those recently, can't comment on the others 08:14:58 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:15:37 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 08:17:07 -!- incandenza [~quassel@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:17:58 i cant get this to work in a windows environmen 08:18:04 is this only for linux? 08:19:07 oh, do i need to download the Ltk 08:19:27 sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has joined #lisp 08:19:40 if you want a demo of fractals check out lispbuilder 08:19:51 i don't know how to install lisbuilder on windows 08:20:02 but it has a fractals demo that you can start playing with once you install it 08:21:54 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-uoviaqquvwgdaees] has joined #lisp 08:22:10 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 08:22:18 -!- guidj0s [~gdjs@187.39.191.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:23:37 jenia: the paste.lisp.org link is specifically for CLISP: http://www.clisp.org/ 08:24:10 I'm not sure if I've ever ran it under Windows. 08:25:19 okay, thanks 08:26:50 jenia: Not directly to the screen but still good for playing around with graphics: http://www.xach.com/lisp/zpng/ 08:30:12 -!- jenia [~jenia2009@modemcable148.172-23-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:30:52 -!- TheSeparateOne [~jeffrey@ip72-207-124-108.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:31:16 -!- TraumaPony is now known as TraumaPrincess 08:34:25 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:36:53 astertronisticon [~astertron@ip70-181-196-121.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 08:37:19 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:40:55 ZabaQ [~Zaba@host81-132-78-148.range81-132.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 08:41:53 lharc2 [~user@88.131.67.194] has joined #lisp 08:43:51 incandenza [~quassel@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 08:46:57 Hun [~Hun@host-80-81-19-29.customer.m-online.net] has joined #lisp 08:49:24 LOGBITP setfable? sbcl's describe says "yes but complex", clhs i undecipherable 08:50:07 pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.121.191] has joined #lisp 08:50:43 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-22-120.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:51:51 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-83-136.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:51:53 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 08:51:54 I don't see a (setf logbitp) in the hyperspec. 08:51:58 -!- PCChris [~PCChris@cpe-69-135-187-90.woh.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:54:11 (let ((x 0)) (setf (logbitp 4 x) 1) x) works but maybe it is an sbcl extension. I'm happy with that though. 08:55:17 Guthur [c0c1f50f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.193.245.15] has joined #lisp 08:58:43 tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:58:56 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:00:34 lharc2: Function LOGBITP means it is not setfable. 09:00:45 lharc2: Accessor CAR means it is setfable. 09:01:03 What's indecipherable between "Function" and "Accessor"? 09:01:06 DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has joined #lisp 09:01:44 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:02:16 lharc2: why don't you READ clhs? www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/01_dd.htm 09:02:55 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.97] has joined #lisp 09:03:13 -!- buckwheat [~rtaylor@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:03:58 pjb: thanks for the help! I can now on my own decipher clhs :) 09:04:19 I hope so. 09:04:32 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d00267b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:07:09 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:09:35 lanthan_afh [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:09:56 nunb [~nundan@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 09:11:21 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:15:40 -!- incandenza [~quassel@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:17:12 incandenza [~quassel@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 09:17:25 Frakk [~Frakk@host56-50-dynamic.3-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 09:17:29 stdDoubt [~ptiago@a79-169-47-40.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 09:18:02 Jabberwockey [~jgrabarsk@selene.ftk.de] has joined #lisp 09:18:49 wvdschel [~wim@sundiata.elis.UGent.be] has joined #lisp 09:18:49 -!- wvdschel [~wim@sundiata.elis.UGent.be] has quit [Changing host] 09:18:49 wvdschel [~wim@unaffiliated/yukito] has joined #lisp 09:18:55 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 09:19:14 I am getting the following style warning "The function was called with zero arguments but wants exactly one" -> the function doesn't have any arguments and it's called in the initform like (defclass deck () 09:19:14 ((card-list :initarg :card-list :initform (create-deck) :accessor card-list))) 09:19:17 plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has joined #lisp 09:19:35 pavelludiq [c28d2f82@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.141.47.130] has joined #lisp 09:19:37 what is the main problem here? 09:19:42 stdDoubt: where is create-deck defined? 09:19:53 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-1-73.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:19:59 So, how was create-deck defined? 09:20:12 (defun create-deck () ... code here ... ) 09:20:12 z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #lisp 09:20:25 Before or after the defclass? 09:20:35 after 09:20:43 If after, defclass may try to use an older version. 09:20:50 Try before. 09:22:30 problem solved thanks 09:23:35 -!- Frakk [~Frakk@host56-50-dynamic.3-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Frakk] 09:27:53 tfb [~tfb@92.40.117.27.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:28:57 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@host81-132-78-148.range81-132.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:31:14 hlavaty [~user@95-88-27-48-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:33:53 Krystof [~csr21@cpc1-bour2-0-0-cust414.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:34:18 xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-90-230.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:34:30 e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-nlmnazujeuqnssft] has joined #lisp 09:37:35 ignas [~ignas@85-206-23-33.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 09:39:35 ZabaQ [~Zaba@host81-132-78-148.range81-132.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:44:11 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 09:47:09 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-56-100.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:50:59 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.14.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:51:45 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@201.102.56.236] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:02:24 sacho [~sacho@87-126-6-67.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 10:03:30 -!- ve [~a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:03:34 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-56-100.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:04:00 -!- Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:04:22 ve [~a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:06:40 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:08:29 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 10:12:23 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@dsl51B780E0.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 10:12:30 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:12:43 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 10:15:24 -!- vert2_ [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-gfzulwmxbnzglryh] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:15:39 vert2_ [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-vsonmkxyliqbbyyd] has joined #lisp 10:17:08 I'm getting a Undefined alien: "cbrtf" while trying to compile sb-cga on win32 with SBCL 10:17:23 any ideas what could be causing that? 10:18:06 cubic root function I believe 10:19:02 Guthur: maybe the symbols are not exported the same in the PE? 10:19:58 paradoja [~paradoja@211.pool80-103-161.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 10:19:59 I think sb-cga supports another lisp implementation, I'll try that first 10:20:21 from my very limited experience with WIN32 programming, you can use http://www.dependencywalker.com/ to list the symbols of a library 10:20:56 I'm not even sure what lib to look at 10:21:09 sb-cga is just a matrix and vector library 10:21:21 it has some optimizations specific to SBCL though 10:21:32 and SBCL is experimental on win32 10:21:43 I seee 10:21:44 -e 10:21:47 -!- salva_oz [~kvirc@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:22:08 -!- pavelludiq [c28d2f82@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.141.47.130] has left #lisp 10:22:48 I use CCL on AMD64 Window 10:22:49 s 10:24:16 -!- snorble [~snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:25:00 i'm just getting CCL nowo 10:26:01 I like SBCL, the win32 support needs a little work though 10:26:19 generally I use linux so it's not that much of an issue 10:27:26 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 10:27:44 Xach: ping 10:28:28 Xach: nvm 10:29:12 H4ns [~user@p579F8FE9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:31:28 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d00267b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:34:25 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:35:04 salva_oz [~kvirc@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 10:35:06 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:37:20 Kanon [~y.romey@LLagny-156-34-16-32.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:37:39 Guthur: was ist los? 10:37:44 -!- Kanon [~y.romey@LLagny-156-34-16-32.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #lisp 10:38:33 Kanon [~opera@LLagny-156-34-16-32.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:38:36 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@host81-132-78-148.range81-132.btcentralplus.com] has left #lisp 10:39:25 Xach: sorry, it was me being stupid 10:39:37 to embarrassing to mention 10:39:39 too* 10:40:32 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@dsl51B780E0.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:40:51 xach: Though I'm having bother parsing 'was ist los?' 10:41:07 my inference engine says it must have been about my false alarm 10:41:15 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:41:16 Guthur: it means "what's up" in a slightly offended tone 10:41:27 ah 10:41:34 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 10:43:05 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 10:44:53 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 10:45:14 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.99.72] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:45:48 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 10:46:33 It seems that pid_t is defined to be int32 on my machine (as determined by cffi-groveler); can anyone point me to, or explain when it can be negative? 10:46:40 qfr: What environment variable did you set for CCL, CCL_HOME? 10:46:47 None 10:47:15 qfr: You using emacs and Slime? 10:47:39 Guthur I tried to use emacs on Windows but it's terribly slow, going back to vim I'm afraid 10:47:46 the scrolling etc are totally broken 10:47:53 Works fine on Linux though 10:48:03 qfr: what emacs did you try to use on windows? 10:48:05 I guess the devs just don't care about Windows :[ 10:48:06 oh, emacs isn't too bad here 10:48:10 H4ns: GNU emacs 10:48:11 tcr: and your machine is 32-bit? 10:48:15 And XEmacs 10:48:20 XEmacs worked fine 10:48:20 qfr: i'm asking because i'm right now chatting from within emacs on windows, no issues 10:48:29 qfr: i can recommend emacsw32 10:48:44 emacs works fine here on XP as well 10:48:51 qfr: and i'd advise against using vim if you're serious about common lisp. 10:49:19 Well I write like Ruby mostly really 10:49:38 stassats: Actually it's not, huh. 10:49:46 tcr: then see https://bugs.launchpad.net/cffi/+bug/687434 10:50:13 i had this with 16-bit integers on 32 bit-machine 10:50:30 I don't see how it related to my question? 10:51:05 I groveled pid_t and looked at the resulting foreign-type which has an actual type of :int32 10:51:16 H4ns when I am opening large text files, emacs takes like 4+ seconds to even launch and when I scroll up and down the editor uses 100% of the CPU and totally locks up and stops drawing until you stop scrolling. 10:51:37 tcr: so, you weren't getting negative values? 10:51:47 qfr: How large is a large text file? 10:51:52 then disregard what i said 10:51:53 Guthur 700 KiB 10:52:00 Works flawlessly in gvim on Windows 10:52:07 stassats: nope not yet anyway :-) I was just curious what pid_t expands to 10:52:12 umm, that's not very large 10:52:14 I thought it was too bad because I quite liked emacs 10:52:18 I hate the vim scripting language 10:52:31 seems strange, maybe try # 10:52:34 emacs 10:52:34 H4ns trying the package you suggested now 10:52:47 Guthur yeah I already told them about it, nobody reacted 10:52:47 to try and diagnose the problem 10:52:56 Guthur it's been known for years actually 10:53:11 Yuuhi [benni@p54839E87.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:53:14 since 2008+ single Windows users talk about it on the mailing lists 10:53:17 Still no fix 10:53:46 qfr: well, one of those people who have the problem needs to fix it. 10:53:47 qfr: and married windows users are silent? 10:53:51 H4ns it's the same problem with the package you suggested 10:54:11 qfr: well, then it must be a problem with your box. sorry. 10:54:16 H4ns it might involve rewriting the entire GUI :/ 10:54:28 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.104.165] has joined #lisp 10:54:39 qfr: might also be something related to specific hardware or other installed software. 10:55:09 H4ns there's a fix for it, which disables most of the stuff added in 23 10:55:24 -q -xrm Emacs.FontBackend:gdi 10:55:28 Makes it run much faster 10:55:37 But that disables lots of new features/font support etc apparently 10:55:49 sabalaba [~sabalaba@221.217.180.154] has joined #lisp 10:56:06 qfr: But are you actually using said features? hehe 10:56:15 qfr: i feel sorry for you, but i can't help. maybe you can convince someone in #emacs to help you with that. 10:56:22 Guthur yes, without it my entire theme and the font selection is gone 10:56:30 qfr: if i had the problem, i'd find a box that does not have it. 10:57:01 does emacs use Gtk 10:57:06 no 10:57:09 and yes 10:57:22 qfr: so you say you can't use emacs when it does not use your fonts and theme? 10:57:41 Of course not, I want a properly customised editor :[ 10:57:57 xiackok_ [~xiackok@94.54.7.3] has joined #lisp 10:59:33 I just set courier and be done with it 10:59:46 Kruno [dced8607@gateway/web/freenode/ip.220.237.134.7] has joined #lisp 10:59:53 Hello. 10:59:54 I think I use consolas at home though 11:00:15 bitstream vera sans mono is teh rocks 11:00:36 Why is consolas considered to be one of the top most fonts? I can not really tell much difference between bvsm and consolas? 11:00:57 I always use Terminus on Linux and Lucida Console on Windows really 11:01:01 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-90-230.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:01:04 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.104.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:01:52 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.96.231] has joined #lisp 11:01:54 qfr: ah, i guess the problem is not so much the font but rather some form transparency/image background or the like? 11:02:14 Kruno: I didn't really look too hard, it was highly recommend and I liked it so I went with it 11:02:58 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:03:00 H4ns from what I have gathered from the mailing lists it's new Windows drawing code that was introduced not so long ago which breaks it 11:03:37 qfr: "it" being "i can see my other app through the text window that i do my coding in"? 11:03:47 qfr: if so, please go to #emacs. 11:04:31 H4ns: I'm not sure why you brought up transparency, I'm not using anything like that and the mailing lists stuff I posted didn't mention that either, did they? Also, I already repeatedly brought it up in #emacs but nobody appeared to care, heh 11:05:03 good afternoon 11:05:12 'arvo 11:05:13 hello mvilleneuve 11:05:29 ahoy mvilleneuve 11:05:33 qfr: sorry for the guesswork. i can't help you. 11:06:54 Anyone know the environment variable for CCL home so that slime can find it 11:07:05 I have a question. This sounds really stupid. I was just playing around with CLOS and reading over it again. Contrary to what every piece of text I have read... I can implement methods without generic functions under CLISP, an implementation of Common Lisp. I am guessing this is not conventional, and that one must use generic functions with methods? 11:07:35 -!- drdo [~user@bl5-19-103.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:07:58 Kruno: if you use defmethod on a generic function that does not yet exist, defmethod defines the generic function for you 11:08:05 ahhh 11:08:07 thank you 11:08:20 Kruno: it is common to use defmethod w/o defgeneric, although it is not considered good style by some. 11:08:49 Thanks H4ns. 11:09:25 I think I will write methods and just use a macro in my editor to generate the generic functions. 11:10:02 Although, ideally one would design the class through operations, the interface, and then implement the methods. 11:10:12 Kruno: you can also define methods in a defgeneric form. auto-generating boilerplate with the editor is something that lispers seldomly do. 11:10:35 -!- kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:10:43 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.96.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:10:56 Really? Thank you, this will serioiusly save some time, and take away some worry. 11:11:09 -!- plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:11:13 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.103.186] has joined #lisp 11:11:23 I guess it would be simpler to auto-generate boilerplate code through Lisp? 11:11:41 defmethod already does that 11:11:44 Kruno: better yet, write macros if you feel that you need more code than you want to write. 11:12:39 Kruno: note that if you use defgeneric with methods and re-evaluate the defgeneric form, any methods not defined in the defgeneric form will be gone. thus, it is better to either define all methods in the defgeneric or use explicit defmethods 11:13:18 I feel like a newbie to Lisp, despite spending a lot of time with resources on Lisp, functional programming and lambda calculus. 11:13:52 Kruno: clos is an extra world. 11:14:20 H4ns: is that so? 11:14:46 So I can use memoization and the like through methods, is that a little bit tougher? I have read through SICP, and CLOS fits in perfectly on the parts where one would create closures that mutate state. 11:15:07 actually methods are like functions, so it should not be an issue? 11:15:08 stassats: i'd say so. it is not integral to common lisp. using it is completely optional. 11:15:33 H4ns: sorry, i was targeting your previous phrase 11:15:35 plediii [~plediii@nat-168-7-234-250.rice.edu] has joined #lisp 11:15:41 plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has joined #lisp 11:15:41 stassats: yes. :) 11:16:17 Kruno: you can implement memoization using, say, :around methods. 11:16:26 ahh 11:16:59 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.103.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:17:36 lisp-2, and functional programming in general, is the only thing short of nanoscale photophysics that has ever made me feel stupid :( 11:17:42 but i keep coming back 11:18:14 I will toy around with some ideas in regards to that now, but in the end I will definitely need to mutate state. I was looking into the possibility of pure functional programming with CL, as well as monads, but in the end nothing I read suggests anyone is using Lisp in a pure functional way. 11:18:36 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.103.127] has joined #lisp 11:18:44 Kruno: there are purely functional lisp dialects, but common lisp is not. 11:19:04 Scheme? 11:19:07 H4ns: doesn't look like from my reading of clhs, i see that methods previously defined inside defgeneric and absent in the new definition will be gone 11:19:25 Kruno: Not really, no. 11:20:18 I have a series of style guides on CL, as well as many code examples, but there seems to be a disparity between coding styles. 11:20:41 Kruno: Not nearly as much as with other languages. 11:21:11 stassats: you seem to be right. strange. i must have been misinterpreting something. 11:21:48 Kruno: common lisp is a multi-paradigm language, so the styles vary widely. 11:22:07 That has been causing me a lot of confusion. 11:22:39 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 11:23:33 The 1993 guide of Lisp style is vague in the overall scheme of things and doesn't really cover CLOS. 11:23:35 Kruno: ok - so i was confused about mixing methods defined in defgeneric and defmethod. you can mix them and still re-evaluate the defgeneric form without losing those methods that have been defined with defmethod. 11:24:22 Neat! Was worried a little about that. 11:24:35 -!- Krystof [~csr21@cpc1-bour2-0-0-cust414.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:25:27 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 11:25:33 fwiw, but i don't really like methods defined from within defgeneric 11:26:30 maybe only (defgeneric foo (x) (:method (x) (error "something meaningful"))) 11:27:48 stassats: they are sometimes nice if the bodies of the methods are very short. 11:27:49 stassats: Also a default case that is not necessarily an error. 11:28:14 plage: i wasn't saying that it is 11:28:16 stassats: i generally avoid mixing defgeneric with methods and defmethod. 11:28:45 (defgeneric withdraw (account amount) (:method (account amount) (setf (slot-value account 'amount) (- (amount account) amount)))) 11:28:57 Much quicker, thanks. :) 11:29:00 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-56-100.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:29:13 (Yes I am still toying around with very simple examples.) :) 11:30:19 i just pretend that :method option doesn't exist 11:30:27 it compiles lol 11:30:30 and even runs 11:30:35 with correct results 11:31:53 Would define that methods = mutate state, and non-CLOS functions are functional, I could treat everything as close to pure functional as possible without worrying about mutability causing overall issues. 11:33:08 what are you trying to imitate? 11:33:16 that doesn't sound like Lisp 11:34:23 Not trying to imitate anything, just thought it was a good idea. 11:34:42 but that is because I have no hard grasp on what Lisp is. 11:35:21 Kruno: Actually, I couldn't even figure out what it is that you thought was a good idea. 11:36:03 did you come up with that idea on your own, or was it infiltrated to your mind by "functional programming is panacea" camp? 11:36:19 Use methods as the only way to mutate state. Ordinary Lisp functions to define everything else. 11:36:40 Well I have been reading many resources on FP recently. 11:37:00 Kruno: Sounds silly! Methods are just partial implementations of functions. 11:37:28 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-56-100.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:37:41 So I shouldn't really worry too much about state mutation under Lisp? 11:38:02 Clojure, I know, tries to block of state mutating code from the rest of the program. 11:38:08 Sorry, not block 11:38:15 but enclose it 11:38:17 pure functional programming to me is just another fad, i live by "don't do side-effects when you don't need to, do them if you need to" 11:39:03 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 11:39:10 Kruno: What stassats says! It is interesting to look at code for macro expanders for instance, where the expansion code itself is often functional, and the code generated is not. 11:39:13 and not "because some bearded men from academic journals are saying" 11:41:09 -!- JuniorRoy [~Work@ns.nkmk.ru] has quit [Quit: Out] 11:42:37 How do you guys handle state in CL? 11:42:57 Pretty well, I would say. 11:43:28 state? no state, complete anarchy! 11:43:42 You don't place state mutating code in seperate files, modules, specific places within a file? 11:43:45 Krystof [~csr21@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 11:44:16 what's the reason to do this? 11:44:36 Just to keep some order in the program. 11:45:31 Kruno: You seem obsessed. Why don't you also sort your code lines alphabetically. 11:45:51 Under C/C++/etc... it is straight forward, as you modify memory everywhere, and scope is the only real issue. I am, however, confused with CL as it supports pretty much every paradigm imaginable. 11:46:04 Kruno: there are lots of examples to peruse to get a sense of common common lisp practices 11:46:07 Sorry, plage, I am just trying to get the big picture. 11:47:20 Any specific source Xach? I am worried about reading the wrong thing when I find code via Google search, as I don't want to pick up bad habits. 11:48:20 Practical Common Lisp is the best source I can find that is reliable. 11:48:26 -!- vert2_ [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-vsonmkxyliqbbyyd] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:48:34 Kruno: One good way to develop your style is to develop code 11:48:52 vert2_ [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-dtjfuzeugcjlbupg] has joined #lisp 11:48:55 You will soon find things that work and things that don't 11:48:57 Kruno: I find PAIP *very* good when it comes to CL style. 11:49:04 Indeed. I do have a style that is a bit of a mixup between various style guides. 11:49:20 Kruno: cl-ppcre is an interesting piece of software and worth studying. 11:49:30 thanks guys. 11:51:07 As an example: (defparameter *student-rules* (mapcar #'expand-pat-match-abbrev 11:51:17 I will put mapcar on a new line and indent it. 11:51:28 Just for clarity. 11:51:41 but I wonder if I am just being pedantic? 11:51:48 Kruno: Relax a bit! 11:52:57 Kruno: If there is room on the line, and it is clear what it means, then it is fine to leave it on one line. 11:53:14 -!- gor[e] [U2FsdGVkX1@79.165.187.105] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 11:53:18 True. 11:53:54 Joreji [~thomas@66-222.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:54:16 Don't know where I picked up my mindset. I will definitely study the sources mentioned, and concentrate on writing code, rather than worrying about how it looks. 11:55:35 Just out of curiosity, I have read that defstruct came before CLOS and that I should always use classes before defstruct. Is this correct? 11:56:39 Kruno: I never use defstruct myself, because the semantics are not clear when it comes to modifying the definition with existing instances floating around. 11:56:49 Well, classes are more easily extensible at run-time. 11:57:06 Personally I tend to prefer structs for simple uses, since there's less mucking about. 11:57:14 Kruno: if you don't know what you need, use classes 11:57:21 Cool. 11:57:25 You can just start with (defstruct foo a b c) and you're done. 11:58:24 dfox [~dfox@ip-213-220-225-182.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 11:58:29 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-5-157.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 11:58:38 -!- salva_oz [~kvirc@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:59:09 I am surprised no one has gone through all the logs of #lisp and wrote a book on all the questions asked. It would be an amazing source. 11:59:31 Or at least highly repetitive. 12:00:11 I would imagine someone would (filter ...) the logs. 12:00:36 actually filter is not in there 12:00:38 remove-if 12:00:49 ]I think I confused CL with Python :o 12:00:57 remove-if-not 12:01:45 The one thing I absolutely love about CL is the ability to write code that looks like a DSL in your domain. 12:02:03 and you do so naturally 12:02:08 -!- osoleve [~sabayonus@adsl-074-166-228-237.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:02:09 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 12:02:29 As long as your dsl looks like lisp. 12:02:40 Definitely. 12:03:07 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [] 12:03:14 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@218.82.4.206] has joined #lisp 12:03:20 No one here uses lambda calculus to design code? /me hides 12:04:57 sabayonuser2 [~sabayonus@adsl-074-166-228-237.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 12:10:10 -!- Guthur [c0c1f50f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.193.245.15] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:10:49 Thanks for the help guys. I am off. 12:10:54 -!- Kruno [dced8607@gateway/web/freenode/ip.220.237.134.7] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:11:22 salva_oz [~kvirc@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 12:11:34 -!- Kanon [~opera@LLagny-156-34-16-32.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:13:47 -!- plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:20:34 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@221.217.180.154] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:30:11 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-5-157.vodafone.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:32:22 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-118-114.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 12:33:44 sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has joined #lisp 12:34:24 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-228-236.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 12:37:54 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:43:20 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Quit] 12:43:44 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 12:44:09 fusss [~fusss@1.148.99.181] has joined #lisp 12:45:36 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-124-248.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 12:51:02 ineiros_ [~itniemin@cs27065016.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 12:56:31 how useful! cl-gtk2 works just with clisp on win32 12:57:25 <_8david> what does that mean? something good, as in "it just works", or something bad, as in "it doesn't work except with clisp"? 12:58:40 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:58:43 it only works with clisp 12:59:35 as in boots, flickers the screen, and then does that unresponsive thing non-threaded GUIs usually tend to do 12:59:37 <_8david> I find that surprising considering that its author ported sb-thread to windows, apparently mainly to be able to use cl-gtk2 nicely on sbcl/windows. 13:00:03 Frakk [~Frakk@host110-49-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:00:19 I am running whatever that quicklisp pulls down; stable, I suppose 13:02:33 <_8david> http://clgtk2.wordpress.com/2010/09/16/related-project-sbcl-win32-threads/ says that it "seems to work" 13:02:34 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:02:51 -!- ineiros [~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:05:43 _8david: I think it's best that I grab his sbcl build and try it with that. cheers! 13:07:13 -!- pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:ddfc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:08:06 ineiros [~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi] has joined #lisp 13:09:04 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:11:20 -!- Frakk [~Frakk@host110-49-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:11:50 Frakk [~Frakk@host110-49-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:20:40 -!- fusss [~fusss@1.148.99.181] has left #lisp 13:22:33 sabalaba [~sabalaba@221.217.180.154] has joined #lisp 13:25:02 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-7-127.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 13:25:29 Kanon [~opera@LLagny-156-34-16-32.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:28:12 hi worlds 13:28:30 somebody using cl-mongrel2? 13:28:55 cl-gtk2 worked with sbcl on Windows more than a year ago, I can only imagine things have improved since then: http://www.aerique.net/software/okra-gtk-demo/ 13:30:22 -!- abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:31:48 salva_oz: Still no! 13:32:21 Xach: thanks sorry 13:40:08 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@221.217.180.154] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:41:47 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-7-127.vodafone.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:43:19 beerTRUCKz [~beerTRUCK@ip174-68-69-137.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:42 fusss [~fusss@120.152.233.145] has joined #lisp 13:46:48 is gtk really my only option for cross-platform GUI? 13:47:22 fusss: html? 13:47:24 fusss: No. There's also ltk and capi and more. 13:47:56 commonqt 13:48:04 i'd like try commonqt 13:48:13 mcclim 13:48:17 or a browser interface 13:48:25 I wanna try commonqt too 13:48:48 this is for a Lisp IDE, btw 13:48:58 Qt is probably better on non-X11, but then I'm a bit biased because I hate gtk 13:49:14 hemlock can use commonqt, though it's currently slightly broken 13:49:15 I would love to use html with CodeMirror, but it's not possible .. going with tried and true Scintilla 13:50:18 au9ustine [~au9ustine@61.155.18.17] has joined #lisp 13:51:57 -!- fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:52:05 -!- sabayonuser2 [~sabayonus@adsl-074-166-228-237.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:52:35 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:52:43 Xach: while I have you around. How can I tell quicklisp to store downloaded sources in a place other than %APPDATA%/*? 13:52:51 sabayonuser [~sabayonus@adsl-074-166-228-237.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 13:53:22 fusss: You can move your quicklisp directory anywhere you want. 13:53:33 sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has joined #lisp 13:53:45 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:54:41 no, not the quicklisp directory itself. but the downloaded packages in dists\quicklisp\software. 13:54:56 You can't change that. 13:55:03 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:55:19 Well, you can change it by changing the code. There's no provision for moving it. 13:55:30 Xach: I typically keep my libraries in one location; for ease of access, to look at sources, demos, unit tests, docs, etc. 13:55:53 Xach: if I change the code, will it be undone on future update-client? 13:55:56 Yep. 13:55:58 sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has joined #lisp 13:56:00 :-D 13:56:57 wish Windows had symlinks 13:57:41 -!- au9ustine [~au9ustine@61.155.18.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:57:45 fusss: I believe it's possible with NTFS on windows >= vista 13:57:54 with some restrictions 13:58:02 like, I think you can link only files you own 13:58:05 pretty worthless 13:58:29 fusss: You're browsing around your sources from the command-line? 13:59:20 au9ustine [~au9ustine@112.4.83.35] has joined #lisp 13:59:37 Xach: I use 4DOS and a file browser written in Turbo Pascal that's a lot like Midnight Commander 14:00:29 fusss: interesting fact: one of my first C programs was a clone of 4DOS's SELECT command 14:00:40 -!- mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:01:39 I bet Bourne Shell doesn't have ANSI colors!!1 14:02:47 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:02:50 fusss: Anyway, the projects are indexed in a relative way, and moving things around would need to take care to preserve the indexes so they can still locate project system files. 14:03:25 see e.g. dists/quicklisp/installed/systems/*.txt 14:03:42 -!- au9ustine [~au9ustine@112.4.83.35] has left #lisp 14:04:37 tcr: pid_t is signed because it used in waitpid(2), where negative values have special meaning 14:04:40 Xach: no worries; easier for me to just create a short-cut. thanks! :-) 14:05:37 -!- nunb [~nundan@121.243.225.226] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:05:57 -!- xiackok_ [~xiackok@94.54.7.3] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:07:09 jweiss [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:07:33 au9ustine [~au9ustine@112.4.83.35] has joined #lisp 14:08:26 -!- retrry [~quassel@b4.vu.lt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:09:24 *Xach* is ultra-hyped to have cl-mssql easily available 14:09:53 -!- paradoja [~paradoja@211.pool80-103-161.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:12:55 -!- au9ustine [~au9ustine@112.4.83.35] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:14:23 -!- baley [~baley@87.229.24.201] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:14:26 gabnet [~gabnet@86.67.23.53] has joined #lisp 14:14:56 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-uoviaqquvwgdaees] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:14:59 -!- frodef [~frode@shevek.netfonds.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:15:58 -!- Hun [~Hun@host-80-81-19-29.customer.m-online.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:16:10 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:16:35 -!- plediii [~plediii@nat-168-7-234-250.rice.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:16:53 -!- rotty_ 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hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-174.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:37 totally discouraged by teepeedee2 failing to install 14:30:47 -!- beerTRUCKz [~beerTRUCK@ip174-68-69-137.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:30:53 "mission accomplished" 14:32:00 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@chello062178064156.22.11.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 14:32:30 francogrex [~user@109.130.71.47] has joined #lisp 14:32:59 yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 14:33:56 gavino: the teepeedee2 author is mad at the parenscript author. maybe if they can work out their differences, the problem can be solved. 14:34:27 what is parenscript? 14:34:41 part of sbcl? 14:34:49 did sbcl change something? 14:34:52 lusory [~bart@bb219-74-91-188.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 14:34:59 [opening cliki] 14:34:59 parenscript is not part of sbcl. 14:35:24 gavino: What problem did you have building teepeedee2? 14:35:26 -!- Frakk [~Frakk@host110-49-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Frakk] 14:35:49 is the alexandria 'draft' up to date regarding the current library version? 14:35:50 Xach: hear, hear. what is he mad at ? 14:36:30 this is really strange story, I have archlinux, completely uptodate, and install sbcl, then git clone tpd2 into /home/myuser 14:36:31 new-lisper [~daniel@c95334ae.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 14:37:07 fe[nl]ix: https://github.com/vii/teepeedee2/issues/closed#issue/1 14:37:13 cd to teepeedee2 and run sbcl --load quickstart.lisp 14:37:32 now this starting running and doing I think asdf stuff 14:37:43 and keeps beaking and giving me numeric options 14:38:00 I select 2 for my local user, and then it load a series of packages 14:38:09 at the very end thre is a lot fo loading 14:38:17 then few garbled letters 14:38:22 after a 0] 14:38:39 now usually I have chosed 0 to continue for each question sofar 14:38:53 so I backspace away the few garbled characters, and type 0 enter 14:38:57 gavino: I'm afraid I can't help, sorry. Maybe the teepeedee2 author can help. 14:38:57 and I get the * 14:41:02 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.71.47] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:43:35 mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:44:11 -!- s1ugg0 [~chris@c-75-64-77-87.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: get to work!] 14:44:43 I shall refrain from boring you with what came next. 14:45:03 xach in your opinion is it insane to try and use lisp for dynamic websites? 14:45:25 (pretend I am Xach) No! 14:45:43 gavino: No. 14:45:50 gavino: In my opinion, though, you are insane. 14:45:53 I managed to get aolserver installed, and poked around with wibble a webserver with dynamic content that uses cl interpreter only 14:45:55 kinda fun 14:46:16 but I want to beneft from lisps abstractions etc so wnat to get lisp webserver going 14:46:22 me? 14:46:32 gavino: install hunchentoot, experiment with that. 14:46:52 I began, and am now on the asdf-instal page trying to cope with the deps 14:47:09 gavino: use quicklisp 14:48:22 ok let me give qicklisp a go here one sec 14:48:31 dseagrav [~dseagrav@nat0.umtec.com] has joined #lisp 14:48:35 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:48:57 gavino: i'm not offering to hand-held you or anything. please install hunchentoot and play with that. for, like, a month or two. 14:48:58 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.20] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:49:59 -!- lharc2 [~user@88.131.67.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:50:02 teepeedee2 is in an older dist, and it builds fine. i have to make it easier to go to older dist versions. 14:50:10 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.153.21] has joined #lisp 14:50:15 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-158-218.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:50:52 baley [~baley@87.229.24.201] has joined #lisp 14:50:58 thanks, qicklisp is downlaoding things 14:51:04 -!- new-lisper [~daniel@c95334ae.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:51:20 older dist? 14:51:34 -!- fusss [~fusss@120.152.233.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:51:49 *Xach* gets younder spelling flashbacks 14:52:29 gavino: Yes, quicklisp packages up software into sets called "dists" that are intended to represent a point in time where libraries work together predictably. 14:52:56 gavino: The idea is to have an escape hatch from future incompatibility problems for your application. 14:53:03 very smart 14:53:06 Like when parenscript updates but teepeedee2 doesn't. 14:53:08 -!- plediii [~plediii@nat-168-7-234-250.rice.edu] has quit [Quit: plediii] 14:53:27 Xach: such points exist, taking into account that you're doing 200+ libs? 14:53:38 ehu: They do so far. 14:53:40 fusss [~fusss@120.156.118.230] has joined #lisp 14:53:44 wow. 14:53:45 ehu: My testing is very light, though. 14:53:51 "Does it build?" is my main test. 14:53:51 that's more than I had expected. 14:54:06 that's a huge step already :-) 14:54:11 also, it's 400+ now... 14:54:24 huge. 14:54:27 ehu: heya! 14:54:28 "it compiles, ship it!" 14:54:29 :) 14:54:37 riddle me this: is hunchentoot in quicklisp? 14:54:39 fusss: hi! 14:55:02 gavino: if not, what's the purpose in downloading it? 14:55:07 -!- bobbysmith0071 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:55:15 gavino: yes, it is. 14:55:32 http://www.quicklisp.org/beta/releases.html has a list of the projects in quicklisp. 14:55:48 poof my pain is gone 14:55:53 benny` [~benny@i577A2394.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 14:56:08 wow I even ran (ql:system-apropos "hunchentoot") 14:56:19 -!- Jabberwockey [~jgrabarsk@selene.ftk.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:56:23 I can't wait to read about it on the technoninja blog. 14:56:24 -!- benny [~benny@i577A3ED0.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:56:58 Xach: that page says ql has CommonQT, but I can't find it in systems-apropos. i updated the client ~2 hours ago. 14:57:10 xach where is your blog? 14:58:26 fusss: The client is what fetches the software, the dist is what indexes and stores the software. use (ql:update-dist "quicklisp") 14:58:34 gavino: It's a secret. 14:58:38 Xach: Will quicklisp write my project for me in lisp yet? In C++, one can just use the function make_game_for_windows(); and it will make you your game for you! 14:59:01 Quadrescence: open a ticket on http://github.com/xach/quickproject 14:59:09 haha 14:59:43 Xach: cool, thanks 14:59:55 gavino: just kidding. http://moviechartsblog.xach.com/ is my blog. 15:00:06 :-P 15:01:09 sellout [~greg@212.3.9.50] has joined #lisp 15:01:19 gavino: you're a legend 15:02:09 fusss: Does mail sent to your paypal address reach you? 15:02:39 Xach: prolly, but it's never checked 15:02:52 I guess me drunken posting really got some riled up 15:02:52 my twitter-name @gmail.com is best 15:03:00 best part is I was serious most fo the time 15:03:01 fusss: I mean physical mail. 15:03:11 tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.181] has joined #lisp 15:03:12 Xach: no, I am in Australia now 15:03:37 fusss: Can you mail your address to xach@xach.com? I need to send out a Quicklisp thank-you card. 15:03:43 I feel bad about feeling I mighta hurt 15:03:45 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@218.82.4.206] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:03:46 Xach: awwww ^_^ don't worry about it 15:04:01 Xach: you got the order of thank you card sending wrong 15:05:06 Xach: I am the one who should be sending you a card 15:05:06 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@196.120.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 15:05:12 # 15:05:12 # 15:05:12 # 15:05:12 # 15:05:12 # 15:05:41 ok does this show 5 different systems, or 1 being hunch, and 4 subsystems as it were? 15:05:42 gavino: don't paste in the channel. 15:05:51 k 15:05:59 sonnym [~evissecer@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has joined #lisp 15:06:19 gavino: the first one is the one you need. the rest are addons 15:06:30 does anyone know of a timeline or family tree of lisp dialects? 15:06:58 sepi: HOPL2_uncut.pdf has the history, but it's missing at least a decade 15:07:27 fusss: All donors get a card, no exceptions! Well, except for those for whom I lack addresses. 15:07:35 *Xach* must get fare's address 15:08:11 sepi: there are very few _bonafide_ lisp dialects. Lisp was used as a vehicle for programming language research, and most of the smaller Lisps were just embeddings 15:08:11 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:08:16 fusss: cool, I guess I'll build a diagram from this 15:08:37 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:09:30 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@86.67.23.53] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 15:09:35 its working, loading hunchentoot 15:09:36 fusss: I just want to show how diverse and complex the lisp landscape is for a small talk on cl 15:09:48 sepi: unless it's homework; programming language historicism is fraught with danger. You're bound to miss someone's pet favorite. 15:10:05 sepi: Monash university has a nice HOPL site that can help you though :-) 15:10:07 I don't care about that 15:10:31 morning 15:11:39 fusss: do you have a link? Couldn't find it... 15:11:50 sepi: first google hit 15:12:10 sepi: start here http://hopl.murdoch.edu.au/showlanguage.prx?exp=31 15:13:21 the Related Languages section has a nice graph which you can traverse; it does relations as Evolution-of/Subset-of/Influenced/Influenced-by/Written-in/Co-developed, etc. really nice. 15:13:45 sepi: if this is CL related then you're better off dropping Lisp history 15:14:28 errr, LISP history rather. The old McCarthy-era lineage. Things got a lot more interesting after Scheme was discovered. 15:14:59 and for the purpose of CL, the HOPL2_uncut.pdf is far more than adequate 15:16:52 Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:18:35 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:18:55 http://weitz.de/hunchentoot/ ok when he says to enter the yo part after starting hunchentoot, does he mean stop hunchentoot, the nter the yo part and then start it with the first command? 15:19:04 pierrep [~pierrep@bas1-montreal43-2925384990.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 15:19:08 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 15:19:08 the prompt did not return after I ran the first command 15:19:30 gavino: Are you using clisp? 15:19:34 gavino: i'd recommend that you use a multi threaded lisp for your experiments 15:19:38 iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@61.43.139.4] has joined #lisp 15:19:49 gavino: ccl is threaded on all platforms. 15:20:15 s1ugg0 [~chris@net-216-37-86-189.in-addr.worldspice.net] has joined #lisp 15:21:19 clisp yes 15:21:41 ok I stoped hunch, put in second command , then started, opened broser and browser still hung 15:21:43 hmm 15:21:51 opened firefox and no work there eitehr 15:22:00 http://127.0.0.1:4242/yo 15:22:36 kanru [~kanru@61-228-154-25.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:22:42 gavino: Use something with threads. 15:22:47 ok 15:22:50 sbcl? 15:22:58 sbcl with threads, or ClozureCL as H4ns said. 15:23:06 k 15:24:35 -!- ignas [~ignas@85-206-23-33.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:27:29 Yow! cmucl is building on solaris/x86. But there's some weird closure being created somewhere that was crashing the GC. 15:28:36 Is there anyone around who has an XL120x by any chance? I want someone to evaluate something and tell me what it does. 15:30:25 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:30:38 LISP 1.5 has 82 direct/spiritual descendants .. impressive 15:31:47 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 15:31:54 -!- mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 15:32:00 wow 15:32:14 hunchentoot werkin on 4242 and yo and hey dude examples work 15:32:24 wow quiclisp made that ez 15:32:25 WOW 15:33:01 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Client Quit] 15:33:22 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 15:34:12 thanks everyone 15:34:15 -!- gavino [~g@207-180-177-44.c3-0.bkl-ubr1.sbo-bkl.ma.cable.rcn.com] has left #lisp 15:34:29 WOW! 15:35:07 guidj0s [~gdjs@187.39.191.205] has joined #lisp 15:36:08 my lisp IDE project will be written in Swing, and shipped as an ABCL jar. that's about the easiest way I know to do crossplatform GUIs at the moment. 15:36:56 The IDE can be Lisp on the jvm, but people should be able to run other lisps for their own code. 15:37:42 isn't it easier to write a plug-in or something for netbeans or eclipse? 15:38:21 yuck 15:38:38 sorry, but something simple, think Mr. Ed 15:39:24 LispIDE, but crossplatform and with source code that people can M-. into 15:39:56 and who's the target audience? 15:40:09 Land of Lisp readers 15:40:21 I just got tired of providing 1:1 support via email 15:40:48 yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 15:41:03 there are also a few concepts that I want to experiment with 15:41:18 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 15:41:27 and they need a half-backed IDE which they won't be able to use for anything serious? 15:41:48 homie` [~user@xdsl-78-35-189-133.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:41:58 exposing the Lisp runtime visually; ability to see a graph of loaded "modules", with quicklisp support, so that you can drill into and see the packages, files, etc. 15:42:18 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-174-101.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:42:32 stassats: let me write it first before I see it's half baked or not 15:42:54 *fusss* I just need to get that text editor itch scratched 15:43:12 fusss: i just thought that you wanted it to be simple 15:43:35 initially, but I have a few stuff I want to experiment with. 15:43:42 holzplatten [~GNUdiSt@4.Red-88-15-94.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:13 n2linux [~n2linux@user-0ccslg2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 15:46:10 cowhm [~Android@126.sub-174-254-5.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 15:46:41 -!- superflit_ [~superflit@c-24-9-162-197.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: superflit_] 15:46:54 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.236.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:48:22 brandonz [~brandon@c-76-102-192-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:49:21 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 15:49:29 -!- n2linux [~n2linux@user-0ccslg2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:49:32 -!- benny` is now known as benny 15:50:11 -!- Krystof [~csr21@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:50:17 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@chello062178064156.22.11.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 15:52:42 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:52:45 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:53:04 -!- pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.121.191] has left #lisp 15:56:19 Is usocket not accepting a vector of 4 bytes as host? 15:59:25 mheld [~mheld@c-75-69-89-109.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:01:04 -!- prip [~foo@host122-132-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:01:55 iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-150-188.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 16:02:15 -!- Kanon [~opera@LLagny-156-34-16-32.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #lisp 16:03:16 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-213-220-225-182.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:03:45 that is an odd thing to use as a host. 16:04:02 SpitfireWP_ [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 16:05:53 Xach: Why's that? 16:06:09 Seems pretty natural, ipv4 address are just a 32bit integer 16:06:09 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:06:16 It's what the tracker sends me back 16:07:59 drdo: The IP libraries I know of treat it as a 32-bit integer, not 4-byte vector. 16:08:23 drdo: (I should say: the C-side IP libraries I know of. I don't know jack about CL IP libraries. :-P) 16:08:23 What's a 32bit integer? :) 16:09:08 drdo: It's a number that you keep between 0 and #xffffffff, of course. 16:09:13 :-P 16:09:13 It's just easier to use a vector, it's already in big endian and it's what i read from the tracker 16:09:26 No point converting to an integer and back 16:09:31 Hahahaha. 16:11:36 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.40] has joined #lisp 16:12:42 -!- zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:16:39 prip [~foo@host118-121-dynamic.47-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:19:19 srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:47 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@80.213.172.190] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:20:54 -!- mheld [~mheld@c-75-69-89-109.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 16:21:44 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp3255.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 16:22:25 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 16:25:14 craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 16:27:02 superflit_ [~superflit@140.226.49.160] has joined #lisp 16:28:22 how do I tell Common Lisp to put this character into a string? U+00F8 LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH STROKE 16:28:24 by itselgf 16:28:27 itself. 16:28:44 dto: common lisp can't do that 16:29:04 Does common lisp even know what unicode is? 16:29:08 no 16:29:12 I didn't think so 16:29:16 dto: #\LATIN_SMALL_LETTER_O_WITH_STROKE might be good with your lisp 16:29:21 #\LATIN_SMALL_LETTER_O_WITH_STROKE works in sbcl 16:29:24 (string (code-char #x00F8)) 16:29:36 dto: you may also want to look at cl-unicode 16:30:03 thanks :) 16:30:05 or just #\ø 16:30:14 #\Ã? 16:30:16 :p 16:30:23 Genosh [~Genosh@157.Red-83-37-197.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:30:41 i couldn't get the character to paste into emacs from Gnome Charmap 16:30:44 Hi. 16:31:31 One question, can i have an argument list where the &rest argument has a default value? 16:31:31 Genosh: Hi. 16:31:39 No. 16:31:42 Hexstream: hi :) 16:31:47 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@221.217.180.154] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:31:51 Genosh: &optional? 16:32:15 Genosh: Can you give an example of what you would like to do? 16:32:18 In a sense... &optional for &rest. 16:32:45 Genosh: no. 16:33:07 &optional and &rest combine badly. And it won't give the effect of a default &rest value. 16:33:08 Genosh: not syntactically but you can produce a default value in the body 16:33:36 drdo: I wasn't thinking about any practical application of that. (in fact i can't think of any) 16:33:50 (defun default-rest (&rest remains) (let ((value (or remains default-value)))) ...)) 16:34:15 Genosh: I'm glad I didn't waste any time looking for chapter & verse! 16:35:05 sabalaba [~sabalaba@221.217.180.154] has joined #lisp 16:35:13 May i ask if there is some rationale or discussion around about this? 16:35:35 Xach: heh, no problem, just wondering :) 16:36:08 Rationale: It's not a very useful feature that an experienced lisper would wish for repeatedly. 16:36:48 maybe i'm secretly longing for that feature, how do you know? 16:37:03 -!- lanthan_afh [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:37:07 stassats: it's still not very useful 16:37:10 Optional and rest combine badly? No they don't... 16:37:16 stassats: Maybe someone is secretly longing for LOOP to be obsoleted, how do you know? 16:37:29 &optional and &key combine badly... 16:37:33 Or rather, how would Xach know ;P 16:38:15 Hexstream: cliki.net/loopless 16:38:22 that's ironic! 16:38:26 Hehe. 16:38:40 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:38:58 fusss: Hexstream is the author of the said thing 16:39:17 stassats: I didn't realize then 16:39:21 If that project doesn't immediately impress you, feel free to ignore it for now until the next release, which will BLOW UP THE WHOLE FUCKING PLANET. Seriously. 16:39:56 Hexstream: will it include an ITERATE dependency? ;-) 16:39:57 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp3255.bb.online.no] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:39:57 -!- SpitfireWP_ [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:39:57 -!- s1ugg0 [~chris@net-216-37-86-189.in-addr.worldspice.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:39:57 -!- iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@61.43.139.4] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:39:57 -!- benny [~benny@i577A2394.versanet.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:39:57 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:39:58 -!- ineiros [~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:39:58 -!- sacho [~sacho@87-126-6-67.btc-net.bg] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:39:58 -!- stdDoubt [~ptiago@a79-169-47-40.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:39:58 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:39:58 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:39:58 -!- fds [~frankie@unaffiliated/franki] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:39:58 -!- p_l|backup [~plasek@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:39:58 -!- boyscared [~bm3719@muze.x.rootbsd.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:39:58 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-204-63.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:39:58 -!- petter` [~user@217.118.44.36] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:39:58 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:39:58 -!- guaqua [gua@xob.kapsi.fi] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:39:58 -!- Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:39:58 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:39:58 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:39:58 -!- sepi [~sepiultru@hcl-club.lu] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:39:58 -!- Borbus [borbus@borbus.kicks-ass.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:39:58 -!- pkhuong [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:39:58 -!- galdor [galdor@def92-10-88-162-192-107.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:39:58 -!- strlen [~alex@behemoth.strlen.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:39:58 -!- Landr [~Hraban@78-21-52-198.access.telenet.be] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:39:58 -!- mgr_ [~mgr@mail.phinn.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:39:58 -!- qebab [~robb@jaguar.stud.ntnu.no] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:39:58 -!- karbak [~akr@kar.vps.bitfolk.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:39:58 -!- kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:39:58 -!- fmu [~fmu@unaffiliated/fmu] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:39:58 -!- vsync_ [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:39:58 -!- sid3k [~user@li140-93.members.linode.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:39:58 -!- Buganini [~buganini@security-hole.info] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:39:58 -!- krappie_ [~brain@mx.skitzo.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:39:58 -!- ozzloy [~ozzloy@unaffiliated/ozzloy] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:40:22 What the. Net split? 16:40:44 hehe. it's just his quit message 16:40:44 it will use recursion only, which will blow the whole stack 16:41:14 stassats, not if it's tail-* 16:41:16 ;) 16:41:36 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@chello062178064156.22.11.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 16:41:38 I had a few epiphanies. I know how to make the "philosophical" arguments against LOOP, which Loopless relied on until now, completely irrelevant. Loopless will be better than LOOP in every single usage scenario, from the simple to the incredibly complex. It will be better on theoretical AND practical grounds. 16:41:49 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp3255.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 16:41:49 SpitfireWP_ [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 16:41:49 s1ugg0 [~chris@net-216-37-86-189.in-addr.worldspice.net] has joined #lisp 16:41:49 iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@61.43.139.4] has joined #lisp 16:41:49 benny [~benny@i577A2394.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:41:49 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 16:41:49 ineiros [~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi] has joined #lisp 16:41:49 sacho [~sacho@87-126-6-67.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 16:41:49 stdDoubt [~ptiago@a79-169-47-40.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 16:41:49 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 16:41:49 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 16:41:49 fds [~frankie@unaffiliated/franki] has joined #lisp 16:41:49 p_l|backup [~plasek@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 16:41:49 boyscared [~bm3719@muze.x.rootbsd.net] has joined #lisp 16:41:49 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-204-63.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 16:41:49 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 16:41:49 petter` [~user@217.118.44.36] has joined #lisp 16:41:49 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 16:41:49 guaqua [gua@xob.kapsi.fi] has joined #lisp 16:41:49 Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:41:49 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 16:41:49 sepi [~sepiultru@hcl-club.lu] has joined #lisp 16:41:49 Borbus [borbus@borbus.kicks-ass.net] has joined #lisp 16:41:49 pkhuong [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 16:41:49 galdor [galdor@def92-10-88-162-192-107.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:41:49 strlen [~alex@behemoth.strlen.net] has joined #lisp 16:41:49 Landr [~Hraban@78-21-52-198.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 16:41:49 mgr_ [~mgr@mail.phinn.de] has joined #lisp 16:41:49 qebab [~robb@jaguar.stud.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 16:41:49 karbak [~akr@kar.vps.bitfolk.com] has joined #lisp 16:41:49 kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has joined #lisp 16:41:49 fmu [~fmu@unaffiliated/fmu] has joined #lisp 16:41:49 vsync_ [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has joined #lisp 16:41:49 sid3k [~user@li140-93.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 16:41:49 Buganini [~buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 16:41:49 krappie_ [~brain@mx.skitzo.org] has joined #lisp 16:41:49 ozzloy [~ozzloy@unaffiliated/ozzloy] has joined #lisp 16:41:55 guidj0s: it mail look like a tail to you, but not to your implementation 16:42:20 Hexstream: so where is it? 16:42:30 (I think this was eaten by the netsplit) 16:42:30 I had a few epiphanies. I know how to make the "philosophical" arguments against LOOP, which Loopless relied on until now, completely irrelevant. Loopless will be better than LOOP in every single usage scenario, from the simple to the incredibly complex. It will be better on theoretical AND practical grounds. 16:42:41 It's in development. 16:42:45 stassats, does your implementation not optimize computing of that sort? 16:42:46 *stassats* imagines a sect of loop haters which gather and walk around a bonfire in... spirals 16:42:59 Hexstream: so put it on github :D 16:43:04 I mean, there's already Loopless 1.0 out, but it's nothing like 2.0 will be. 16:43:28 dlowe: https://github.com/Hexstream/loopless 16:43:34 stassats: There's no longer any use for LOOP hatred. I somewhat reconciled with it. 16:43:48 fusss: I mean his aMAZEing replacement 16:43:57 Hexstream: you just despise it? 16:44:27 Because Loopless actually steals many great features of LOOP, makes them much more powerful in lots of cases (or at least as powerful), and "repackages" them in a way that leaves all the real or perceived fundamental flaws of LOOP behind. 16:44:37 -!- craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:44:43 guidj0s: it's quite easy to make recursive functions have no tail calls :p 16:45:12 stassats: No need to. Loopless will transcend it so much that it can be magnanimous in victory. 16:45:47 enthusiasm bores me 16:46:03 dlowe, I know no "functions". 16:46:59 guidj0s: they're the things you define with DEFUN in CL 16:47:04 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:47:16 awesome, but I don't program in CL. 16:47:57 decaf [~mehmet@78.163.165.72] has joined #lisp 16:48:16 guidj0s: Jovial? 16:48:20 Hexstream: extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence :) 16:49:04 Yes, I know. Your skepticism is well-justified. Don't trust me on word. Just pretend everything I just said is bullshit, and then maybe you'll have a nice surprise in a few weeks, or not. 16:49:10 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 16:49:35 Good general advice on the Internet, in any case 16:49:39 -!- ASau [~user@95-26-92-70.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:50:14 guidj0s: what are you doing here then? 16:50:56 ASau [~user@95-26-92-70.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 16:54:34 -!- Joreji [~thomas@66-222.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:55:43 slyrus__ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-216-182.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:55:47 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-221-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:55:58 ymasory [~ymasory@grok.psych.upenn.edu] has joined #lisp 16:56:09 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-221-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:56:24 -!- slyrus__ is now known as slyrus 16:58:40 damn power outages... 17:00:52 -!- SsvRrwQ [~user@S0106001c1122940c.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:01:17 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has left #lisp 17:03:17 Frakk [~Frakk@host110-49-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:03:58 beerTRUCKz [~ron@ip174-68-69-137.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:04:14 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:04:16 -!- La0fer [~Laofers1@64.120.233.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:04:51 -!- kanru [~kanru@61-228-154-25.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:05:50 Bronsa [~brace@host139-185-dynamic.1-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:05:58 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:08:37 Joreji [~thomas@66-222.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 17:10:06 -!- lclark [~user@ip70-181-163-100.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:10:54 Is there some googly interaction library? Mostly looking for interacting with the calendar there. 17:11:54 -!- cowhm [~Android@126.sub-174-254-5.myvzw.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:12:35 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 17:12:55 cowhm [~Android@126.sub-174-254-5.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 17:13:06 schmx: AFAIK not. Google supports caldav and activesync and I don't know of any CL library for those protocols 17:14:16 hugbunny [~admiralhb@bzq-79-176-28-239.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:22 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:14:30 -!- fusss [~fusss@120.156.118.230] has left #lisp 17:15:27 Do functions in LABELS allow docstrings? 17:15:38 SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 17:15:52 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-nlmnazujeuqnssft] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:16:26 isn't it clear from CLHS? 17:16:28 "Any local-documentation is attached to the corresponding local function (if one is actually created) as a documentation string. " 17:16:31 Yeah I missed that 17:16:45 Sorry about that. 17:16:46 -!- az [~az@p4FE4F309.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 17:17:10 -!- SpitfireWP_ [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:17:16 Quadrescence: no, you missed "labels ((function-name lambda-list [[local-declaration* | _local-documentation_]] local-form*)*) declaration* form*" 17:17:39 Yeah I guess I read "local-declaration" twice. I must still be tired. 17:17:51 fe[nl]ix: thanks. 17:18:26 Quadrescence: i prescribe you two hours of furious CL coding to cure your tiring 17:19:00 billitch [~billitch@62.201.142.79] has joined #lisp 17:19:21 *stassats* has just fixed bugs furiously and feels great 17:22:59 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:23:42 -!- beerTRUCKz [~ron@ip174-68-69-137.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:23:54 trigen- [~MSX@87.209.144.213] has joined #lisp 17:24:29 beerTRUCKz [~beerTRUCK@ip174-68-69-137.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:27:20 -!- pdo` [~pdo@217.33.254.141] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:29:47 -!- Joreji [~thomas@66-222.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:31:34 eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 17:31:46 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:32:23 -!- hugbunny [~admiralhb@bzq-79-176-28-239.red.bezeqint.net] has left #lisp 17:34:07 -!- nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:35:20 kmwallio [~kmwallio@pool-96-241-63-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:35:24 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 17:35:24 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:35:43 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 17:36:13 -!- hlavaty [~user@95-88-27-48-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:41:05 Edward [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-51-131.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:41:09 stassats: I just got this working https://bitbucket.org/tarballs_are_good/lisp-random/src/03902d532304/HindleyMilner/infer.lisp 17:41:47 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-24-4-147-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:07 bad_alloc [~bad_alloc@HSI-KBW-085-216-109-135.hsi.kabelbw.de] has joined #lisp 17:42:46 Zephyrus 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[~steve@c-174-56-26-27.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:42:54 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:44:56 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-76-102-192-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:45:16 Anyone tried using plexippus XPath on CLISP? The common-lisp.net project page says it only works with SCBL, but i was wondering if anyone tried using it on CLISP. 18:45:52 I would imagine the most likely person is the one who wrote that it's sbcl-only (-: 18:46:11 Guthur [~Guthur@host86-133-249-99.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:46:13 symbole [~user@rrcs-184-74-223-10.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:46:50 Hmm! My clisp keeps crashing when i try to quickload xpath. 18:46:57 *Xach* hasn't seen that before 18:47:55 Interesting. 18:48:35 ZabaQ [~Zaba@213.246.116.189] has joined #lisp 18:49:23 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.226.41] has joined #lisp 18:49:32 Xach, Do you automate testing of Quicklisp? 18:49:36 -!- SpitfireWP_ is now known as SpitfireWP 18:50:09 Is there anyone around who has an XL120x by any chance? I want someone to evaluate something and tell me what it does. 18:50:26 Guthur: A bit. 18:50:27 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.21] has joined #lisp 18:50:49 automatically quickloading everything 18:50:51 Guthur: I automate a lot of quicklisp stuff. 18:51:11 *Xach* would probably go insane otherwise 18:51:35 dseagrav, XL120x throws up a hydroponics tent as the first google result 18:51:45 I think you might be in the wrong channel with htat 18:51:49 No 18:51:57 Symbolics XL1200 or XL1201 18:52:03 dseagrav: still no. 18:52:04 ah 18:52:07 Those who have one know what it means ^_^ 18:52:16 truesay 18:52:20 dseagrav: rainer joswig might have one. 18:52:26 dseagrav: he doesn't visit irc often though. 18:52:28 I don't have one, obviously 18:52:42 dseagrav: rainer hangs out here as lispm, but I think he's active on twitter 18:52:51 -!- HET2 [~diman@host81-149-242-213.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:53:17 alternatively, you could ask on stackoverflow. I know he answered a lot of questions there, might as well treat it as a repl (-; 18:53:36 ah yes. he is a stackoverflow fiend. 18:54:24 I had never heard of stackoverflow before. The Q&A thing? 18:54:29 yes 18:54:53 he seems to monitor the lisp tag, and I think almost every question has an answer from him (-: 18:56:48 doing his bit to spread the word 18:57:10 GrayMagiker: I got a build failure of xpath on clisp, but it's because of clisp's strict complex loop checking, not anything particularly interesting. 18:57:45 -!- kmwallio [~kmwallio@pool-96-241-63-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:57:58 *Xach* wonders if it would fail somewhere interesting if the loop syntax was updated 18:58:09 Thanks Xach. I am tracking down and installing the components, ie parse-number, and such for xpath. 18:58:14 ziarkaen__ [~ziarkaen@87.115.181.23] has joined #lisp 18:58:16 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:13 Hopefully this doesn't get anyone in any trouble, lol 18:59:16 -!- cowhm [~Android@241.sub-174-254-4.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:59:21 GrayMagiker: track...down? 18:59:26 GrayMagiker: but friend, i did that all for you! 19:00:04 GrayMagiker: just use quicklisp :) 19:00:44 Xach: what is this quicklisp you speak of? I feel my lisp education has been sorely neglected! 19:01:13 -!- ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@87.112.156.211] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:02:06 francogrex [~user@109.130.71.47] has joined #lisp 19:03:13 Found quicklisp.org, looks very useful! But I still wonder why I never herd of this before.... 19:03:47 cowhm [~Android@241.sub-174-254-4.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 19:03:48 -!- cowhm [~Android@241.sub-174-254-4.myvzw.com] has quit [Client Quit] 19:04:27 The answer to "How did you find it?" may be a clue of why you haven't heard of it before 19:04:47 askatasuna [~askatasun@host230.190-3-1.static.telmex.net.ar] has joined #lisp 19:05:18 frodef [~frode@shevek.netfonds.no] has joined #lisp 19:06:37 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-174.mirrorimage.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 19:06:41 Well i found it by googling 'quicklisp'. But never having herd of quicklisp, the chances that I would google that term were minimal. 19:07:02 pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:ddfc] has joined #lisp 19:08:10 -!- mheld [~mheld@74.125.60.4] has quit [Quit: mheld] 19:08:36 it doesn't make sense. 19:08:42 cowhm [~Android@241.sub-174-254-4.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 19:08:56 Why would you google the term 'quicklisp' in the first place? 19:09:36 anyway, now that you found it useful enjoy it 19:09:42 Ah, well because Xach told me to 'just use quicklisp'. I have bothered people in here before, but no one ever told me that before. 19:10:12 I will. It seems quite awesome! Thanks again, Xach! 19:10:20 GrayMagiker: it's pretty new, and has only recently entered beta (: 19:11:26 antifuchs: so I see, but it seems to have a lot of software already ready to load; which is at least as good as me installing stuff by hand. 19:12:36 that's true 19:13:09 the software in quicklisp is pretty old, but the stuff binding it together, making it easy to get & install, that's very new (-: 19:13:29 GrayMagiker: well, i wrote about it a lot on planet lisp, and on reddit, and i mentioned it on comp.lang.lisp, and it was on news.ycombinator.com, and twitter 19:13:34 GrayMagiker: and on lispforum.com 19:13:38 GrayMagiker: where do you get your Lisp news? 19:14:54 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-094-197.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 19:15:00 *Guthur* gets his news from arbscht podcast 19:15:18 Xach: well when I have time usually from twitter and comp.lang.lisp. I guess I should pay more attention :) 19:15:19 that's only 2 weeks old though 19:16:11 GrayMagiker: http://search.twitter.com/search?q=quicklisp 19:17:03 *francogrex* recommends checking planet lisp and comp.lang.lisp at least once a week 19:17:27 *GrayMagiker* so notes such recommendation. 19:17:54 pnq [~nick@ACA2B3AA.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 19:17:55 *GrayMagiker* clearly can't read when on twitter then. 19:18:11 clog [~nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 19:18:43 anyway, enjoy. i made it because i got sick of downloading dependencies manually. 19:18:45 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 19:18:46 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2B3AA.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Client Quit] 19:18:50 comp.lang.lisp is so full of spam i can never see anything on it 19:19:00 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 19:19:23 Guthur: google recently changed their group system and it seems like there isn't as much spam now. but maybe it's a temporary reprieve only. 19:19:41 -!- billitch [~billitch@62.201.142.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:20:11 GrayMagiker: do you go to the local lisp meetings? 19:20:24 I use the eternal september usually to read the group, rarely on google groups 19:20:26 i tried to look at it in work recently, and the top story had Sex and other NSFW stuff in the title 19:20:44 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.226.41] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:21:07 No, between grad school for acupuncture and being involved in a local summer camp it is hard for me to get time to go to more meetings. 19:21:08 jeti [~user@212-166-197-75.red-acceso.airtel.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:51 morphling [~stefan@gssn-4d00267b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:22:05 no local lisp meetings here unfortunately 19:22:07 There is a lisp/scheme group in town, but they meet on Sundays which is when I go over to my parents house so the time is not good for me. I don't know of any other local groups here. 19:22:20 I do hope to go to the next ELS though 19:22:36 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has quit [Client Quit] 19:22:42 that was the one I was thinking of. 19:22:50 Guthur: where? 19:22:52 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 19:23:12 It's in Germany somewhere 19:23:30 or do you mean where am I? 19:23:38 I wish there were local lisp meetings in Belgium. I don't know of any 19:23:39 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@213.246.116.189] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:24:07 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:24:10 http://www.european-lisp-symposium.org/ 19:24:11 Belgium is crawling with lispers! 19:24:14 although it's the center of europe for crying out loud... 19:24:19 quite an interesting theme as well 19:24:26 Guthur: maybe there is a lisp meeting near you that you don't know about. 19:24:55 Xach, there was actually someone talking about MOP on the bus yesterday would you believe 19:25:01 antifuchs: Just so you know, they closed my request as "Not a real question" and griped at me for posting it. Apparently you're not supposed to use it as a repl, lol 19:25:18 but it was a broad conversation about computer languages 19:25:32 dinner time 19:25:38 dseagrav: bah. 19:26:01 -!- clog [~nef@bespin.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:26:09 People are no fun anymore. It's not like I asked for someone to do a bunch of work. 19:26:13 dseagrav: maybe there is a way to phrase what you're trying to ask as a tech support question (: 19:26:51 clog [~nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 19:27:12 I know . I know at least two persons from here and cll. maybe we shoukd try to find the others and organize something local 19:27:38 like "why won't my XL120x signal an error on this lisp form?" (-; 19:28:12 Maybe you can pioneer the use of the symbolics tag 19:28:25 computer.history (-: 19:28:26 Naah, I don't want to make too much racket. 19:28:39 Racket is off-topic here. 19:28:45 flip214 [~marek@h081217084238.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 19:28:45 -!- flip214 [~marek@h081217084238.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Changing host] 19:28:45 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 19:29:13 GrayMagiker: well, now that you know about quicklisp, be sure to tell the lisp people in your sphere of influence about it! 19:29:23 Besides, if I asked my question outright, it would cause problems, since the answer could possibly be used to violate Symbolics's intellectual property rights. (I'm trying to divine the base address of a firmware PROM) 19:29:48 I definitely will! 19:29:49 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:30:13 netytan [~netytan@host86-175-234-85.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 19:30:40 dseagrav: you might try mailing rainer directly. he's usually pretty approachable about this stuff 19:30:46 and he knows a lot about symbolics machines (: 19:31:03 I probably will. What's his twitter name BTW? 19:31:22 it's rainerjoswig 19:31:28 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-094-197.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:34:17 -!- Genosh [~Genosh@157.Red-83-37-197.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:34:55 Genosh [~Genosh@52.Red-88-11-126.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:36:16 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-124-248.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:37:35 snorble [~snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 19:39:41 -!- ziarkaen__ [~ziarkaen@87.115.181.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:39:43 timor [~timor@port-92-195-99-170.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 19:40:51 -!- jeti [~user@212-166-197-75.red-acceso.airtel.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:44:39 what would one recommend as a very basic text web browser in cl? 19:45:30 Gnsh [~Genosh@52.Red-88-11-126.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:47:14 francogrex: none 19:47:18 entropax [~entropi@192.55.54.40] has joined #lisp 19:47:25 francogrex: drakma 19:47:34 drakma and closure-html ((-: 19:47:41 that's text plus DOM (-: 19:48:13 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 19:48:13 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 19:48:13 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 19:48:32 dfox [~dfox@ip-213-220-225-182.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 19:48:35 -!- Genosh [~Genosh@52.Red-88-11-126.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:49:17 http://maclisp.info/pitmanual/hunks.html 19:49:22 common lisp why don't you have this 19:50:45 It probably used a byte pointer or something else ITS-specific 19:51:01 -!- sykopomp` is now known as sykopomp 19:51:05 -!- cowhm [~Android@241.sub-174-254-4.myvzw.com] has quit [Quit: AndroidIrc Disconnecting] 19:51:08 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@c-66-41-249-30.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:51:08 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 19:51:09 There had to be some reason it didn't carry over to the lispm 19:51:16 <_3b> how would it differ from a vector? 19:51:27 <_3b> (aside from the confusing reader syntax) 19:52:03 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 19:53:42 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Quit:] 19:54:17 daniel___ [~daniel@p5B326360.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:34 _3b: the only thing I can think of would be that a HUNK2 is just a cons cell. :S 19:54:43 pnq [~nick@AC8103C6.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 19:55:21 sounds very much like vectors with element type (unsigned-byte ) 19:55:52 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082BD3C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:56:15 or, of course, specialized on any type 19:56:19 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 19:56:39 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:57:08 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 19:57:32 dseagrav: Whoa, was it you who wrote the Explorer emulator? 19:57:37 Yes. 19:57:56 But I got sucked into another project and it kinda fell off the face of the earth 19:58:28 I never got it stable enough for my satisfaction. 19:59:05 -!- skeptomai [~cb@ip65-47-31-86.z31-47-65.customer.algx.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:00:19 dseagrav: Does your new project have to do with lisp too? :) 20:00:24 Yes 20:01:01 Well, not the one that sucked me away from the Explorer emulator 20:01:07 I have another new lisp-related project 20:01:45 mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has joined #lisp 20:01:51 The one that sucked me away from the Explorer simulator was paying work. 20:01:58 ah 20:02:01 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:02:36 that reminds me, I need (want) to find a copy of macsyma for the lispm, so far it's nowhere to be found :< 20:02:57 You won't find it. 20:03:14 It was licensed at MIT, and they were careful about that. 20:03:29 They even carefully exorcised it from the ITSes. 20:03:53 What about Symbolics Macsyma? 20:04:23 (and that's interesting you know that info :) 20:05:08 Not really. I own a KS10 and run an ITS. 20:05:43 There's lots of discussion of it on the ITS archives. 20:05:43 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:06:23 It's part of why the whole RMS/LMI/Symbolics thing happened. (I'm still not real clear on the details of that though) 20:07:09 -!- decaf [~mehmet@78.163.165.72] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:08:45 dseagrav: what are you clear on w/re the schism? B/c its hard to get any idea about what happened, even though something obv. did given RMS position w/re Lucid Common Lisp etc. 20:08:57 -!- clog [~nef@bespin.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:09:11 dseagrav: I'd love to know :) 20:09:45 mon_key: Honestly very little. The ITS people were trying to stay uninvolved, so everything I ever read was 3rd-hand at best. 20:10:13 clog [~nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 20:10:15 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:10:29 And I wasn't there to see it, seeing as I was busy learning to walk and not shit myself at the time. 20:11:21 dseagrav: Yeah, likewise - I was probably wearing my Michael Jackson rhinestone glove :) 20:11:29 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 20:11:43 All I know for certain is that something Symbolics did set off RMS, and he made it his mission to kill them. At one point he was even talking about strapping on a bomb belt and walking into their office. 20:11:50 knobohtc [~androirc@138.80-202-64.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 20:11:50 I never found out exactly what it was. 20:12:15 dseagrav: Which kinda sucks because I think we're still paying the price for that particular grudge. 20:12:20 Yes. 20:12:23 We are. 20:12:49 I have no idea why he saw LMI as better than SMBX because both of them were doing more or less the same thing. 20:13:01 LMI just fell into the same trap as Foonly. 20:13:01 aintme [~user@2.36.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 20:13:09 So just to be clear. This was circa 1983-85ish? 20:13:12 They never shipped because they never felt ready, and the money ran out. 20:13:20 Oh no,way earlier than that. 20:13:25 1978-1979 20:13:48 Ah, so totally pre GNU-Manifesto 20:14:12 Yeah 20:15:14 A few months back I was reading over some old LispM sources (I think) and there were these early references to RMS w/re 'macs maintenance... What got me was how much of that stuff was pre-existing.... 20:15:43 Yeah, a lot of the lispm stuff came from ITS. 20:15:58 Emacs came even before lisp 20:16:00 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:16:16 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 20:16:26 I don't think he approved of LMI -- I think he disapproved of it less 20:16:38 RMS hated Symbolics so much he put code in emacs to make it exit if you were using a Symbolics machine. 20:16:51 He had some cutesy derisive name for it 20:16:59 This is all very well documented on the web, there's no need to make supositions. 20:17:00 My understanding is that he hated symbolics because they took all the smart people away from the AI Lab. 20:17:11 It would print "In buying from Symbolics you are rewarding a wrong!" or something and then exit. 20:17:38 Gimme a minute and I'll find it 20:18:21 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:18:44 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:18:49 "Symbolics, later announced that it would not allow MIT to copy across to its own system any of the improvements and additions made to the software by Symbolics." 20:18:58 pjb: Some of it maybe, but I think it gets lost in any contemporary discussion around "Common Lisp/Emacs" and young fellas like mysefl are left with answers like "it steps on the global-names". Which clearly isn't exactly the source of RMS' disdain for Common Lisp 20:19:05 *Xach* heard a bit of that history from firsthanders at ILC 20:20:08 cnirrad [~darrin@ip68-13-142-241.om.om.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:17 He hated them hard enough to contemplate suicide. RMS might be a bit unhinged, but he's not -that- crazy. They did something really dire to provoke it, and nobody's talking about it. 20:20:25 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 20:20:50 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-78-35-189-133.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:21:54 Ah, found it 20:21:58 It's still in twenex emacs 20:22:05 "In doing business with Symbolics, you are rewarding a wrong!" 20:22:08 and then it exits. 20:23:05 He calls them Slimebolix 20:23:14 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.115.181.23] has joined #lisp 20:23:14 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:47 in typical nerd gravitas 20:23:58 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.226.41] has joined #lisp 20:24:33 In any event, nothing ever made it out of LMI that I'm aware of, so Symbolics is all that's left. 20:25:05 sellout [~greg@212.3.9.50] has joined #lisp 20:25:27 dseagrav: ...people have written books about it 20:25:27 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:25:31 Well, I'm grateful for his insanity for its birth of GNU. 20:26:01 try "Hackers: heros of the computer revolution" 20:26:11 it has a chapter about that stuff 20:26:20 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-189-133.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:29:00 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.226.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:29:46 Yeah, I've read it before, but it didn't have any more detail than what I already had 20:29:50 -!- ch077179 [~urs@adsl-84-227-26-67.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20:30:58 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75eaad.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:14 hi 20:31:24 In any event, Symbolics is still the best choice if someone wants to make another lispm. Unless someone can chase down a LMI source tree, and that would require a lot more work than starting from Genera 8. 20:31:47 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.115.181.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:32:17 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:01 Also, Symbolics still has a ghost, so you might even be able to get the ghost to cooperate if you were persuasive enough. 20:33:03 Must have been pretty cool to be hacker around that time 20:33:18 LMI is in the hands of the Canadian government, seized in a fraud investigation. 20:33:29 programming is all so very corporate nowadays 20:33:51 still was back then, mostly. You'd have teams of IBM programmers in suits 20:34:15 Keypunches. 20:34:25 ah IBM, been around like forever 20:34:34 the stories of hackerdom were from people on the bleeding edge 20:34:34 Guthur: how programming is depends on what you are doing 20:34:47 I'm so glad rms did what he did, i can't imagine what the world would be like otherwise 20:35:20 prxq, yeah it's not too bad, though in some ways I wish it was just my hobby, and that I had way more time for hobbies than work 20:35:23 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:35:32 drdo: Maybe it might have been lisp based instead of C based... 20:35:34 Maybe we'd be running something other than warmed-over Unix. 20:36:27 I'd rather be running a free unix than being in the hands of a corporation 20:36:35 So here is a quote from ucadr.lisp in the mit cadr emulator: 20:36:42 ;THE FOLLOWING IS A TEMPORARY KLUDGE UNTIL THE COMPILER BUG IS FIXED. 12/19/78 MOON, PER RMS 20:36:42 ((M-B) (BYTE-FIELD 4 0) M-B) 20:37:17 so what's the preferred method of talking to postgres these days? 20:37:38 mon_key: all caps 20:37:43 postmodern? 20:37:51 prxq: The original code was all caps. 20:37:53 prxq: thats verbatim :) 20:38:02 prxq: Terminals with lowercase letters were rare and expensive. 20:38:27 ok thanks drdo 20:38:46 -!- superflit_ [~superflit@140.226.49.160] has quit [Quit: superflit_] 20:38:48 CAN'T HAVE PARENS HERE 20:38:52 ;) 20:38:54 slyrus: I really like postmodern 20:42:00 -!- metasyntax` [~taylor@12.132.219.7] has quit [Quit: Have a reasonable solstice, everyone!] 20:43:05 *Xach* has been talking to postgres with postmodern all afternoon 20:43:47 -!- holzplatten [~GNUdiSt@4.Red-88-15-94.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:44:53 on the other hand, it could have been a lot worse than a decent unix, which I think linux really is 20:45:11 it could have been plain DOS for example 20:46:47 prxq: or AmigaOS which wouldn't have been so bad :) 20:47:27 Xach: can you add (ql:install-and-configure-slime) :) ? 20:47:41 DOS was really immature at the time. 20:47:59 GNU project was 1983. 20:48:25 RMS really is right when he says a lot of people are missing the point 20:48:39 i've always heard that lisp machines were really lousy at security 20:48:43 slyrus: i have that! 20:48:50 slyrus: it's called (ql:quickload "quicklisp-slime-helper") 20:48:51 where really lousy was supposed to be an understatement 20:48:59 oh, cool! 20:49:05 prxq: What's security? 20:49:07 slyrus: it's not fully automagic, but it gets you partway there. 20:49:12 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:49:34 prxq: Everything was really lousy at security then. 20:49:48 "Security" meant armed guards at the doors. 20:50:05 That's what security means 20:50:09 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:50:47 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 20:51:01 prxq: I'm not so sure that Redhat/Selinux ontop of the *nix permission model is so great a solution either. 20:51:13 mon_key: fair enough 20:51:20 ITS was the spiritual father of the lispm, it had no protection of any sort. The only thing close was the PANDA program installed as a prophylactic between the hactrn and the network. 20:51:42 What exactly are you guys talking about when you say "security" ? 20:51:47 But once you were at a hactrn the system was yours. (As much as anyone else's anyway) 20:52:03 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 20:52:24 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.226.41] has joined #lisp 20:52:43 I am trying to setup slime with stumpwm using the code in http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/StumpWM 20:52:59 drdo: No clue, I assume all my machines are fundamentally flawed/compromised as soon as i plug them in. 20:53:16 drdo: "security" means that users can't break the OS or kick other users off or things like that. 20:53:21 mon_key: sssh, don't let them see that 20:53:26 And that user A can have files than user B can't read 20:53:26 I get the following error: The name "SWAMP-BACKEND" does not designate any package 20:53:29 drdo: bonds, stocks? 20:53:35 The usual stuff 20:53:43 dseagrav: That means armed guards at the door 20:53:50 antifuchs: "they" already know. 20:53:52 Stopping me from unplugging the computer from the power socket 20:54:03 ivan-kanis: are you sure it's SWAMP? 20:54:05 At the time, yeah. And then the network happened. 20:54:05 s/SWAMP/SWANK 20:54:13 drdo: i guess you can make that style of argument, of course 20:54:13 stassats: a bit tired ;) 20:54:24 Your armed guards can't do anything about some kid from four states over who figured out what :lock does 20:54:40 dseagrav: If the machine is designed to allow multiple remote users 20:54:51 Then yes of course it shouldn't let them screw each other 20:54:54 I am guessing swank-backend.lisp is not in stumpwm search path 20:55:08 Well, at the time, there was no such thinking. 20:55:08 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo] 20:55:28 SpitfireWP_ [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 20:55:30 The system was there to be hacked, and it was assumed that everyone who knew enough to use it had the same motivation and would cooperate with one another. 20:55:46 "security" measures just got in the way. 20:55:52 dseagrav: That could very well be the case 20:56:01 dseagrav: Yeah, it took young lisp hack named R. Morris to fix that :) 20:56:23 No way, that was way after 20:56:29 What does hacked mean? 20:56:41 changed around. (For good or for bad) 20:56:43 If we established that everyone given the password to this machine is trusted 20:56:44 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:56:46 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@host230.190-3-1.static.telmex.net.ar] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 20:56:59 Morris was in the unix era. 20:57:16 panda happened in the arpanet era (I think?) 20:57:31 -!- SpitfireWP_ is now known as SpitfireWP 20:57:34 dseagrav: I think Morris solidified the perception that Lispyness is insecure 20:57:52 retrry [~quassel@b4.vu.lt] has joined #lisp 20:58:20 mon_key: Yeah, and that's false. 20:58:21 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:58:34 I think I was in like 6th or 7th grade. And all of a sudden we couldn't play "Leisure Suit Larry" on the school cpus anymore :) 20:58:37 This idea of sharing computers between unrelated untrusted users doesn't apply anymore today anyway 20:58:37 hi mon_key 20:58:45 dto: hello 20:58:59 You can be lispy and secure. Just add security items to the tag. Different security contexts take a tag trap like any other. 20:59:15 dmalves_ [~chatzilla@201.20.73.189] has joined #lisp 20:59:28 should I take the question to #emacs ? 20:59:32 dto: hi 20:59:35 hey 20:59:42 ivan-kanis: no 20:59:59 they won't like it 21:00:00 yeah, practically everyone runs everything under two uids these days: root and not-root. 21:00:37 drdo: in fact, that happens all the time. There are lots and lots of virtual servers out there, and many run concurrently 21:00:40 not-root is either an interactive user for a desktop, or something like "apache" for a server. 21:00:47 prxq: That's quite different 21:00:53 drdo: no 21:01:08 no more data isolation between users, it's all accessed via the single apache uid via a webpage. 21:01:24 sucks for security, but hey, it's just user data anyways 21:01:30 prxq: That's isolation at the machine level, they don't share the same machine conceptually 21:01:43 It's not the same 21:01:47 Not really. My apache can't directly read my database files, and neither of those can mess with my sendmail instance, except through accepted interfaces. 21:01:56 drdo: well, they share the same machine. It is just fairly well done. 21:02:02 dseagrav: or through exploits 21:02:02 kmwallio [~kmwallio@pool-96-241-63-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:10 drdo: and then there are all the shell servers 21:02:10 dseagrav: okay, sure. 21:02:19 My various VM instances don't have permission to mess with my Mac OS volumes 21:02:21 prxq: Who uses that, really? 21:02:27 nor can they mess with one another 21:02:29 dseagrav: but your apache can read *ALL* user data from your database via the accepted interfaces. 21:02:39 I actuall do use sometimes, but it's not really very important at all 21:02:51 would (:directory "/home/ivan/hg/lisp/slime") do the trick? 21:02:55 foom: No it can't. It can read the database that drives the site, but it can't read the database the CRM system uses. 21:02:59 i don't know cl at all 21:03:01 ivan-kanis: no 21:03:12 Not that i have anything against it, it's fairly nice 21:03:51 What i'm not sure is good idea is isolation between processes from the same user 21:04:15 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101203074432]] 21:04:21 OK, do you want every flash app on the web to have the ability to read memory of other processes? 21:04:37 Or worse, write it? 21:04:57 Great, every random flash or java app can now use IPC to get Outlook to send messages. 21:05:11 that's good, isn't it? 21:05:13 Or harvest your address book. Or read whatever passwords are in core. Etc etc. 21:05:21 *_3b* wonders if there is anything interestingly lisp related worth reading the scrollback to look for 21:05:22 right, right now they can do that 21:05:35 they shouldn't be able to of course. But the unix permissions model isn't any use for that. 21:05:42 -!- cnirrad [~darrin@ip68-13-142-241.om.om.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:05:47 _3b: Yeah, if you go far enough, this started as a discussion of whether or not security is worth implementing in lisp. 21:05:59 Then it shifted to "why is it useful?" 21:06:18 We're in the usefulness part of the discussion. 21:06:21 *_3b* will take that as a no 21:06:28 well, we can go back. Is there a safe lisp reader lib out there? 21:06:45 _3b: correct conclusion. :) 21:06:56 dseagrav: You could still be able to isolate a process, that doesn't mean it should be the default 21:07:07 security is the inability for a user to elevate their own privilege 21:07:19 drdo: The process should make the decision, on a per-item basis. 21:07:30 prxq: what is safe? 21:08:04 drdo: That's why I want security bits just as tag bits. The process can decide what it wants to protect and against whom on a per-object basis, just like how tag bits protect type. 21:08:08 -!- guidj0s [~gdjs@187.39.191.205] has quit [Quit: Download IceChat at www.icechat.net] 21:08:13 say, you can avoid interning and read-eval, but what about reading huge lists? 21:08:43 safety always comes with trade-offs 21:08:58 safety means giving up useability 21:08:59 stassats: ...something on that lines. A (safe-read) that would allow for useful choices 21:09:20 drdo: what are you suggesting? :-) 21:09:26 The trick is deciding which trade-offs are good 21:11:09 i get the error after (load "/home/squeeze/hg/lisp/slime/swank-backend.lisp") 21:11:32 surely the package ought to get loaded... 21:12:07 ZabaQ [~Zaba@213.246.119.55] has joined #lisp 21:13:39 ivan-kanis: What error, and why are you loading it like this? 21:14:02 I get the following error: The name "SWAMP-BACKEND" does not designate any package 21:14:08 (queue-insert item queue) or (queue-insert queue item)? Is there a convention regarding argument ordering? 21:14:14 swamp, again? 21:14:29 dang it, it's swank 21:15:36 ivan-kanis: You can't generally just load individual .lisp files and expect it to work. 21:15:39 *prxq* laughs 21:16:05 swamp backend, good one! :-) 21:16:05 austinh: i vote for item queue 21:16:07 anyone know how to get postmodern to connect without a password? 21:16:26 -!- dmalves_ [~chatzilla@201.20.73.189] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.12/20101026210630]] 21:16:31 mine is connecting with a password, though i don't know how it does that 21:16:32 stassats: yeah, I should probably follow the syntax from POSITION 21:16:44 Xach: the code I am using is a copy of http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/StumpWM 21:16:45 austinh: i was thinking about PUSH more 21:17:08 ivan-kanis: who wrote that page? maybe you could ask them for help. 21:17:20 uzmest [~uzmest@102-217.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 21:17:28 stassats: I wasn't really thinking about the behavior, but that is a better point of reference. 21:17:29 ivan-kanis: (load "swank-backend.lisp") actually does work for me. 21:17:42 schmx: but you shouldn't do this 21:17:52 stassats: I don't. 21:18:02 ivan-kanis: What version of swank is around your world? 21:18:41 ivan-kanis: the instructions on that page look good, make sure that your slime is from the right place and in good shape 21:19:09 shachaf: it says 3.0 in the NEWS file 21:19:11 ivan-kanis: Where on that page does it say you should load swank-backend? 21:19:34 ivan-kanis: that's not the version, well, swank has no version 21:19:35 -!- salva_oz [~kvirc@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:19:38 schmx: nowhere, i just have stumpwm complaining 21:20:00 ivan-kanis: Ok. Why are you LOADing swank-backend.lisp ? 21:20:51 schmx: well i am getting the error "SWANK-BACKEND" does not designate any package 21:21:11 schmx: so I am assuming it can't find swank-backend.lisp 21:21:36 ivan-kanis: Well it can't find the package atleast. What are you actually doing to get this message? 21:21:56 schmx: but then i am probably assuming wrong 21:22:01 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-93-205-148.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:22:17 schmx: the error pops up when starting stumpwm 21:22:25 ivan-kanis: right, you are assuming wrong 21:22:52 ok good, how do i fix it? 21:23:17 I'd suggest asking #stumpwm really. 21:23:31 How is stumpwm loading swank though? 21:23:59 -!- aintme [~user@2.36.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has left #lisp 21:24:22 oh i just had some lovely swiss chocolates 21:24:24 ivan-kanis: i'm not aware of what crazy things stumpwm is doing, but if you follow the instructions on that page with bare sbcl, it would work 21:25:44 ivan-kanis: from where did you get slime? 21:27:08 stassats: i can't remember, it's been a while 21:27:20 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host139-185-dynamic.1-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:27:33 -!- drdo [~user@2001:690:2100:1b:226:8ff:fef7:3d9e] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:28:16 then it doesn't matter, because you should get it anew, from CVS 21:28:27 or if you fancy quicklisp, from quicklisp 21:29:44 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.71.47] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:30:46 stassats: slime is not broken, it works when i do M-x slime I get a REPL 21:31:21 great, if it's not broken, then my help is not needed 21:33:10 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-158-218.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:33:57 -!- knobohtc [~androirc@138.80-202-64.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: Bye] 21:34:31 stassats: what makes you think slime is broken? 21:35:22 swank is part of slime, and it is what is usually broken. 21:35:59 It's either that or you not doing what that thar page told you to do. 21:36:46 ok i'll try the latest slime 21:36:48 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:37:54 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@213.246.119.55] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:40:48 horze [~kim@c-740972d5.24-87-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 21:41:29 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:42:45 -!- js0000 [~js@67.208.188.68] has quit [Quit: vacation!!!!] 21:43:41 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 21:44:04 ok lates verision of slime (2010-12-17) exact same issue... 21:45:23 ivan-kanis: can you paste your .emacs somewhere? 21:46:11 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:47:11 ivan-kanis: and, you have to restart emacs. 21:47:39 What does emacs have to do with it? 21:47:54 netytan_ [~netytan@host81-141-51-188.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 21:47:54 fwiw (require 'slime) (slime-setup)) 21:47:55 21:48:12 ivan-kanis: What are you doing exactly? 21:48:19 because the thing in the wiki works. 21:48:39 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.15/2009101909]] 21:48:44 ivan-kanis: you can't paste your .emacs? 21:48:48 :-) 21:48:51 when making an instance of a clos class, can i refer to an earlier slot in the instance i'm creating? i.e. if i have 'val' and 'rel' in slots, and i call (make-instance ..) and pass an init-form to :val, can i use that value when i'm initializing :rel? 21:48:54 schmx: i pasted what's in the wiki 21:49:19 ivan-kanis: Pasted it where? 21:49:46 prxq: Why does .emacs even matter when emacs is not being run?? 21:49:58 schmx: .stumpwmrc 21:50:19 ivan-kanis: And then? 21:50:50 schmx: it doesn't of course. I though this was a slime issue. 21:50:57 -!- netytan [~netytan@host86-175-234-85.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:50:57 -!- netytan_ is now known as netytan 21:51:04 schmx: then i run stumpwm that i compiled (git snapshot of today) like so ./stumpwm 21:51:24 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:51:24 schmx: the error is displayed in red text on the top right 21:51:43 ivan-kanis: Well I have no idea about what stumpwm does. 21:52:09 ivan-kanis: I'd ask #stumpwm. Sounds like it is broken. 21:52:23 <_3b> ivan-kanis: just to make sure, you fixed the path, not pasted it literally, right? 21:52:49 _3b: If that was the case would stumpwm even start to paste that message? 21:52:56 <_3b> schmx: no idea 21:53:02 well maybe it would though. 21:53:15 I guess stump starts and then evals the .rc 21:53:21 <_3b> schmx: but since useful info isn't being provided, have to ask silly questions :( 21:53:39 haha yes 21:53:55 hoh 21:53:56 _3b: yes i have changed the path :) 21:54:03 Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has joined #lisp 21:54:11 Actually if I LOAD swank-loader.lisp then there is no swank-backend package. 21:54:22 Well I guess I stand corrected. the thing in the wiki does not work. 21:55:22 -!- GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-26-27.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:55:57 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.181] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 21:56:00 where's a good place to paste? 21:56:17 oh nm 21:56:19 it does work just fine 21:56:29 ivan-kanis: paste.lisp.org 21:56:59 ivan-kanis: What goes if you fire up sbcl (load "swank-loader.lisp") (swank-loader:init) ? 21:57:01 ivan-kanis: have you restarted your lisp, erased the fasls, etc? 21:58:41 schmx: Couldn't load "swank-loader.lisp": file does not exist 21:58:53 schmx: i ran it withing the slime directory 21:59:26 ivan-kanis: Well you need to specify the correct path to it. 21:59:51 mahmul [~mrw@user-0can1en.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 21:59:56 schmx: oh you want me to put an absolute path? 22:00:01 yes. 22:00:07 or a relative one. 22:00:44 shachaf: T 22:00:57 and now you have your swank-backend package, ya? 22:01:13 schmx: how do i find out? 22:01:56 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-135-206-253.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 22:02:38 ivan-kanis: (find-package :swank-backend) 22:03:19 schmx: NIL 22:03:24 uh 22:03:29 then your slime is horribly broken 22:06:41 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:06:59 tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.181] has joined #lisp 22:07:08 thoolihan [~thoolihan@99-157-225-37.lightspeed.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:07:20 -!- thoolihan [~thoolihan@99-157-225-37.lightspeed.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:08:51 Do you have to freeze slime before you can break it, or how does that work? 22:08:57 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 22:08:59 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@host86-133-249-99.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:09:55 SpitfireWP_ [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 22:10:29 -!- plediii [~plediii@nat-168-7-234-250.rice.edu] has quit [Quit: plediii] 22:11:14 well i am tired with this stuff, thanks for all the help 22:11:32 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:11:46 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.226.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:12:51 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:15:35 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has left #lisp 22:20:02 -!- Frakk [~Frakk@host110-49-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:21:09 Guthur [~Guthur@host86-133-250-151.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 22:22:54 -!- ymasory [~ymasory@grok.psych.upenn.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:25:03 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:27:47 colbseton [~colbseton@AClermont-Ferrand-156-1-46-242.w83-113.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:32:16 -!- colbseton [~colbseton@AClermont-Ferrand-156-1-46-242.w83-113.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 22:33:31 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:34:14 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:34:53 -!- churib1 [~tg@dslc-082-082-099-065.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:35:04 superflit_ [~superflit@140.226.49.160] has joined #lisp 22:35:23 -!- pierrep [~pierrep@bas1-montreal43-2925384990.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:36:34 -!- churib [~tg@dslc-082-082-099-065.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:37:04 Guthur_ [~Guthur@host81-156-238-73.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 22:37:22 pierrep [~pierrep@bas1-montreal43-2925384990.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 22:38:59 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@host86-133-250-151.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:41:35 vasile [~vasile@ool-4570abc6.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:45:05 Guthur__ [~Guthur@host213-122-222-101.range213-122.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 22:45:24 ppasteau [~ppasteau@bas1-montreal43-2925384990.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 22:46:35 -!- Guthur_ [~Guthur@host81-156-238-73.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:46:35 frito [~keithmant@cpc2-sotn4-0-0-cust13.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 22:46:54 -!- pierrep [~pierrep@bas1-montreal43-2925384990.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:47:52 <_3b> can methods portably specialize on cffi pointers? 22:48:58 no 22:49:08 <_3b> that's no fun :( 22:49:58 wrap the pointer in you own type(e.g. a struct) and then you can specialize on that 22:50:19 <_3b> yeah, just wasn't quite ready to write the CLOS api yet :/ 22:51:18 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has quit [Quit: Kerrick] 22:56:45 -!- uzmest [~uzmest@102-217.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: uzmest] 22:56:59 -!- frodef [~frode@shevek.netfonds.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:58:23 -!- dseagrav [~dseagrav@nat0.umtec.com] has quit [Quit: POPJ P,] 22:58:34 netytan_ [~netytan@host81-141-55-192.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 22:59:41 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.181] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 22:59:43 -!- DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:59:45 DarthShrine_ [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has joined #lisp 22:59:47 -!- netytan [~netytan@host81-141-51-188.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:59:47 -!- netytan_ is now known as netytan 23:01:47 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:04:04 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-135-206-253.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:06:59 -!- Guthur__ is now known as Guthur 23:11:57 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo] 23:15:43 -!- frito [~keithmant@cpc2-sotn4-0-0-cust13.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:18:31 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-58-68.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 23:23:11 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 23:25:02 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-228-236.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:26:47 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.153.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:28:14 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-58-68.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:28:37 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.52.36] has joined #lisp 23:29:35 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:33:04 -!- silentbicycle [~scott@99-55-246-143.lightspeed.gdrpmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 22.3.1] 23:34:06 -!- mahmul [~mrw@user-0can1en.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:34:42 -!- iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-150-188.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:35:21 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75eaad.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:37:59 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: sbahra] 23:42:19 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@212-183-41-124.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 23:42:25 somnium [~user@184.42.0.205] has joined #lisp 23:43:23 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:43:34 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:43:55 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:44:21 -!- jweiss [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:48:07 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 23:49:49 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 23:50:28 urandom__ [~user@p548A3248.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:53:59 -!- Landr [~Hraban@78-21-52-198.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:55:30 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 23:58:29 TheSeparateOne [~jeffrey@ip72-207-124-108.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:59:09 plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has joined #lisp