00:00:19 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:00:32 plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has joined #lisp 00:00:40 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 00:00:55 Good morning everyone! 00:03:32 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-231-75.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:50 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:04:53 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-221-206.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:05:45 LiamH [~nobody@pool-72-75-117-4.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:08:29 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-231-75.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:08:41 skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #lisp 00:10:41 ziga` [~user@BSN-176-187-32.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has joined #lisp 00:10:56 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-6-97.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:11:33 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 00:11:43 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.113.184.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:13:30 -!- s1ugg0 [~Chrish@net-216-37-86-189.in-addr.worldspice.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:16:12 -!- ziga` [~user@BSN-176-187-32.dial-up.dsl.siol.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:16:49 -!- pinkwerks [2679e0fb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.38.121.224.251] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:16:53 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-6-97.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:19:22 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-43-63.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:22:49 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-234-75.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:23:15 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 00:25:17 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-43-63.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:26:32 -!- mheld|wiredin [~mheld@c-75-69-89-109.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: mheld|wiredin] 00:27:26 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-223-216.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:28:53 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-234-75.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:29:44 -!- plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:30:39 jimrthy [~jimrthy@ip68-13-249-220.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:34:17 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-223-216.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:34:48 humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 00:35:38 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:39:15 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-142-140.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:43:31 -!- entropax [~entropi@nat/intel/x-chehpextbhijhuqe] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:49:43 -!- eugu [~eugene@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:49:52 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-13-158.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:52:43 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:53:59 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-136-152.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:55:00 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 00:56:29 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-13-158.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:56:45 ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-233-195-101.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 00:58:39 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.15.242] has joined #lisp 01:00:47 sellout: how do CFG derivative works for parsing, in your experience? 01:00:54 -!- Bridge|A is now known as Bridge| 01:01:07 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-53-235.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:03:09 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:03:39 -!- kanru [~kanru@118-168-238-114.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:04:00 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 01:06:51 -!- Bridge| [bridgelife@netburst.org] has left #lisp 01:08:47 sellout: you there? 01:08:51 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-130-48.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:12:28 Is there a destructive mapcar? 01:13:30 if there's not, it'd be fairly easy to implement one on top of one of the map things 01:14:51 Well, it's easy to implement with dolist, point is, if there was one, no point in implementing it :) 01:15:15 nevermind dolist 01:16:18 drdo: map-into. 01:17:27 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 01:18:20 pkhuong: thanks 01:20:19 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:20:23 Yuuhi` [benni@p54839C69.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:20:27 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:22:15 -!- yan__ is now known as yan_ 01:22:22 mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:22:24 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p54839C69.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:23:29 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-20-39.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:24:29 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p54839C69.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:24:32 gigamonkey: I heard you talk in "The Weekly REPL" podcast. Nice one. 01:26:02 entrosca [~entrosca@ip98-167-231-101.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:28:39 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:30:18 pnq [~nick@ACA26ECA.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 01:32:42 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:34:09 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 01:34:12 joergen [~joergen@e178068223.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 01:36:01 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 01:37:11 -!- sixpoint8 [~jaykub@ip68-12-204-131.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: SMB would probably lose to statis in a fight. :P] 01:37:23 -!- skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has left #lisp 01:37:34 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-82-154.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:39:27 kmwallio [~kmwallio@pool-96-241-63-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:40:17 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-136-152.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:43:17 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-82-154.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:43:57 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Quit:] 01:45:25 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-22-35.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:46:18 notsonerdysunny [~chatzilla@59.92.149.137] has joined #lisp 01:47:48 -!- joergen [~joergen@e178068223.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:49:27 kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has joined #lisp 01:50:12 Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has joined #lisp 01:51:41 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-22-35.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:55:05 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA26ECA.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:59:25 aidalgol [~user@114-134-9-4.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 02:04:37 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-121-67.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:06:24 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.49.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:06:46 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.49.8] has joined #lisp 02:08:12 s1ugg0 [~Chrish@c-75-64-77-87.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:08:23 pnq [~nick@172.130.232.243] has joined #lisp 02:08:26 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-128-156.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:10:17 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-121-67.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:11:24 TheSeparateOne [~jeffrey@ip72-207-124-108.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:11:32 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-188-158.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:12:31 plage [~user@113.161.72.89] has joined #lisp 02:13:04 Good morning everyone! (again) 02:13:17 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-128-156.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:14:21 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-63-26.lns21.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:15:14 -!- jimrthy [~jimrthy@ip68-13-249-220.ok.ok.cox.net] has left #lisp 02:16:17 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-188-158.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:20:29 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-63-26.lns21.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:22:23 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-23-162.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 02:24:19 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@c-71-192-163-98.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:24:22 hi plage/beach :) 02:24:32 i'm sitting down to get some lisp hacking done. 02:24:51 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-32-211.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:25:54 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: nighty night] 02:26:11 dto: Excellent! What are you working on? 02:26:51 plage: my "iosketch" project. a visual lisp coding tool. 02:27:29 dto: Any screenshots yet? 02:27:51 if not, tell us a little something about it please=) 02:27:52 plage: some are up at http://lispgamesdev.blogspot.com/ 02:28:25 humasect: i'm implementing an MIT-Scratch-like drag-and-drop programming UI on top of my game engine's existing functionality. 02:28:32 ohhh! 02:28:46 fantastic =) =) 02:29:19 humasect: no webpage yet. if you want details, https://github.com/dto/iosketch/blob/master/blocks.lisp 02:29:33 humasect: this is the outgrowth of my XIOMACS spreadsheet thing 02:30:58 yes i see it is such an outgrowth =) 02:31:02 i am very happy to see this! 02:33:17 humasect: this will make my engine more accessible to people, although I did make many improvements to user friendliness and habitability of the source-level API. 02:34:01 lharc is one of the people who have dabbled with making a game on my engine, lharc what do you think of visual languages? (BTW the non-visual API will still be totally available 02:35:51 humasect: the pushed version doesn't look right, i introduced a dumb bug. i'll have something to show in a few hours. 02:36:09 hmm sounds fabulous 02:36:15 i really loved using squeak =) 02:36:18 what do you think of the language design 02:36:29 and for new users 02:36:35 blocks.lisp ? 02:36:35 humasect: and we'll have the advantage of machine language JIT for the diagrams :_) 02:36:38 humasect: yes. 02:36:44 hehe 02:36:59 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-214-184.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:37:01 rather than making lines between little nubs on many boxes leading to a spider-like diagram 02:37:03 its cool =) 02:37:16 yes. do you know Code Bubbles ? have you seen the demo? 02:37:19 i am just nesting the boxes inside each other. 02:37:23 nope, link? 02:37:40 -!- powerje [~powerj@75.60.210.184] has quit [Quit: powerje] 02:37:41 and then i need to turn off IRC to get in the coding zone 02:38:26 i'll be back around midnight US eastern standard time 02:40:02 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 02:41:29 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-214-184.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:41:51 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:42:40 humasect: code bubbles looks cool 02:42:52 sorry i could not find the link 02:43:02 its ok i found it 02:43:07 watched part of a video. 02:43:31 i have a text editor widget that works with monospace and can be dragged around 02:44:53 -!- kmwallio [~kmwallio@pool-96-241-63-3.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:45:00 powerje [~powerj@adsl-75-60-210-184.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:45:27 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@c-71-192-163-98.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:45:55 monospace ? 02:47:04 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:47:33 Font? 02:49:43 ah =) 02:49:47 *humasect* duh 02:51:22 iwillig [~ivan@ool-18b944f4.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:54:15 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:54:17 humasect: sorry, works with monospace fonts. 02:54:26 ok i'll be back later 02:54:39 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.55.26] has joined #lisp 02:54:59 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:55:00 cool. okay =) awesome to see the great work dto 02:55:08 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:01:55 -!- SsvRrwQ [~user@S0106001c1122940c.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:01:59 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:03:38 i am trying to learn cffi... are there some examples people suggest i work from ? 03:04:28 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-kxyydhkcvipufbqv] has joined #lisp 03:10:05 -!- BrianRice [~water@c-98-246-165-205.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:11:52 m4dnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 03:11:53 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.55.26] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:13:37 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:14:42 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-221-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:15:35 evening 03:19:14 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp3255.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: A subtle thought that is in error may yet give rise to fruitful inquiry that can establish truths of great value.] 03:21:14 ebzzry [~ebzzry@203.213.202.186] has joined #lisp 03:21:16 -!- powerje [~powerj@adsl-75-60-210-184.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: powerje] 03:25:04 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:27:17 Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has joined #lisp 03:27:28 iwillig: there's the manual, you can try also studying the output from SWIG (it's not necessarily the most readable code, but I found myself finally groking CFFI with it) 03:32:21 markfuzz [~markfuzz@CPE00195b4f2aa0-CM001225d75412.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 03:34:02 thanks p_l|backup 03:36:06 -!- ymasory [~ymasory@grok.psych.upenn.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:36:13 -!- TheSeparateOne [~jeffrey@ip72-207-124-108.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:37:17 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-233-195-101.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:37:25 ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-233-195-101.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:38:22 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-9-4.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:39:07 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:39:30 araujo [~araujo@190.38.50.25] has joined #lisp 03:39:30 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.38.50.25] has quit [Changing host] 03:39:30 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 03:42:31 iwillig: btw, I found that copy-paste of required parts of C/C++ headers to the SWIG interface file works better than trying to use SWIG's include directive 03:46:05 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-57-59.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 03:46:08 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.199] has joined #lisp 04:09:44 longshot [~longshot@216.131.74.24] has joined #lisp 04:11:11 -!- notsonerdysunny [~chatzilla@59.92.149.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:12:03 p_l|backup: that's odd O.o 04:12:31 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 04:12:49 Ralith: SWIG sometimes get confused by CPP macros 04:13:08 but CPP macros are *less* complicated than C ones! 04:13:11 er 04:13:15 don't mind me! 04:13:15 >_> 04:13:34 p_l|backup: I didn't realize they were at all hard to parse. 04:14:07 Ralith: I had an issue where certain #define wasn't properly expanded and I had to manually expand it, so I decided to shortcut everything and simply copied relevant parts into interface file 04:14:37 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-221-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:15:24 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-68-24.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:20:45 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-68-24.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:21:27 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-91-14.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:23:08 SsvRrwQ [~user@S0106001c1122940c.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:24:33 -!- billitch [~billitch@rob92-1-82-67-155-88.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:25:04 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633637.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:25:13 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633637.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 04:27:43 -!- mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 04:27:51 -!- markfuzz 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[~longshot@216.131.74.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:13:09 -!- humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 05:14:35 -!- murilasso [~murilasso@189.103.20.140] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:14:55 murilasso [~murilasso@189.103.20.140] has joined #lisp 05:15:05 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-91-14.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:22:08 notsonerdysunny [~chatzilla@59.96.57.144] has joined #lisp 05:25:17 Gmind1 [~Deulamco@113.190.167.17] has joined #lisp 05:27:29 -!- Gmind [~Deulamco@113.190.167.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:31:55 -!- oconnore [~eric@ip68-225-113-244.mc.at.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:36:53 wedgeV [~wedge@cpe-24-193-116-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:43:10 -!- notsonerdysunny [~chatzilla@59.96.57.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:45:00 cmbntr [~cmbntr@77-56-85-227.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 05:45:34 -!- Vivitron [ad4c080a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.76.8.10] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:45:41 -!- murilasso [~murilasso@189.103.20.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:47:02 murilasso [~murilasso@189.103.20.140] has joined #lisp 05:47:17 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:48:11 -!- cmbntr [~cmbntr@77-56-85-227.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Client Quit] 05:49:56 I wonder if Knuth has an Algorithm X for all X in A-Z. 05:50:37 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:50:50 Probably. 05:51:01 You didn't ask him when you interviewed him? 05:51:05 -!- Gmind1 [~Deulamco@113.190.167.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:51:24 I didn't. 05:51:39 nostoi [~nostoi@195.Red-95-121-138.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 05:51:40 If he does, I'm going to publish a Knuth Alphabet Book. 05:53:43 gigamonkey: I assume you have looked at the appendices of his TeX-book and his Metafont-book, right? 05:59:10 In case you haven't, for each x in {A, B, C, ...} the title of appendix x starts with the letter x, so A is Answers to all exercises, D is Dirty tricks, etc. 06:02:43 -!- tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:03:22 This algorithm is presented you by the letter G, and the numbers 9 and 34. 06:03:39 plage: I have noticed that. 06:03:47 plage` [~user@113.161.72.89] has joined #lisp 06:05:15 -!- plage [~user@113.161.72.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:05:41 vlion` [~user@CPE-76-178-165-160.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:07:10 jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-54.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:07:41 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:07:59 -!- sacho_ is now known as sacho 06:08:30 hiya, I am wondering if anyone knows the typical idiom for common lisp CLI argument parsing 06:09:05 nalbyuites [~ashijit@122.162.146.193] has joined #lisp 06:10:18 -!- vert2__ [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-zkjpapxhblfewtcd] has quit [*.net *.split] 06:10:18 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [*.net *.split] 06:10:18 -!- meadowlark [~meadowlar@unaffiliated/meadowlark] has quit [*.net *.split] 06:10:18 -!- rapacity [~prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has quit [*.net *.split] 06:10:18 -!- borkaman` [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 06:10:18 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [*.net *.split] 06:10:18 -!- luis [~luis@nhop.r42.eu] has quit [*.net *.split] 06:10:18 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [*.net *.split] 06:10:18 -!- Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 06:10:19 -!- zvrba [~zvrba@anakin.ifi.uio.no] has quit [*.net *.split] 06:10:54 vert2__ [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-zkjpapxhblfewtcd] has joined #lisp 06:10:54 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 06:10:54 meadowlark [~meadowlar@unaffiliated/meadowlark] has joined #lisp 06:10:54 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 06:10:54 luis [~luis@nhop.r42.eu] has joined #lisp 06:10:54 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 06:10:54 Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 06:10:54 zvrba [~zvrba@anakin.ifi.uio.no] has joined #lisp 06:11:23 -!- luis [~luis@nhop.r42.eu] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 06:11:36 luis [~luis@nhop.r42.eu] has joined #lisp 06:12:24 rapacity [~prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has joined #lisp 06:14:27 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 06:14:32 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@195.Red-95-121-138.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 06:15:35 vlion`: there are no idioms, but there are some libraries 06:15:53 one was called simply "command-line-arguments", afaik 06:17:45 -!- nalbyuites [~ashijit@122.162.146.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:18:00 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 06:18:00 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 06:18:00 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 06:18:12 nalbyuites [~ashijit@59.177.178.23] has joined #lisp 06:18:46 Ah, that strikes some pay dirt 06:18:47 http://common-lisp.net/gitweb?p=projects/qitab/command-line-arguments.git 06:22:55 There's also one of the clons: http://www.lrde.epita.fr/~didier/software/lisp/clon.php 06:23:46 Vivitron [ad4c080a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.76.8.10] has joined #lisp 06:27:45 -!- nalbyuites [~ashijit@59.177.178.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:28:08 nalbyuites [~ashijit@122.162.146.193] has joined #lisp 06:36:25 -!- minsa [~minsa@c-24-5-121-157.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 06:37:31 Hm, the clon requires some FFI and gives my Windows box a dirty look 06:37:45 -!- nalbyuites [~ashijit@122.162.146.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:38:00 Random history question: where does the function name 'terpri' come from? 06:39:08 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-20-39.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:39:49 -!- rokstar [~rokstar@d221-90-121.commercial.cgocable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:40:06 rokstar [~rokstar@d221-90-121.commercial.cgocable.net] has joined #lisp 06:40:49 Presumably fortran. 06:41:49 Although ... http://www.saildart.org/1975/12/15/SAILOR.FAI[S,AIL] indicates otherwise. 06:42:27 What *is* that language? 06:42:31 PDP11ese. 06:42:32 JCL? 06:43:01 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 06:43:33 -!- Pepe___ is now known as Pepe_ 06:44:02 Oooh, wow, way before my time 06:44:25 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-54.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:47:31 lambda-avenger [~roman@adsl-99-8-229-167.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:51:40 Ah, looks like the sail language, so that's not useful. 06:53:20 -!- pnq [~nick@172.130.232.243] has quit [Quit: be vigilant] 06:53:42 notsonerdysunny [~chatzilla@59.96.57.144] has joined #lisp 06:57:29 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:59:04 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 06:59:40 -!- DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has quit [Quit: DarthShrine] 07:02:38 -!- cmm- [~cmm@bzq-79-183-204-63.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:02:52 mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 07:02:52 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 07:02:52 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:03:21 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-204-63.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 07:11:40 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive_] 07:14:21 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 07:18:48 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 07:19:10 flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has joined #lisp 07:19:11 -!- flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has quit [Changing host] 07:19:11 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 07:26:00 The nasty people of #lispcafe don't wan't to say hello to my students in Ho Chi Minh city. What about you? 07:26:48 #lispcafe is always so hostile! 07:26:51 hello, students! :) 07:26:55 plage`: possibly because they are asleep :D 07:27:33 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 07:29:23 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:29:39 plage`: hello! 07:32:49 oskar__ [~oskar@c83-250-205-17.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 07:32:52 Oh, thanks! My students were starting to think that I was exaggerating about someone always being around. 07:33:13 p_l|backup: You, on the other hand, never seem to sleep. 07:34:55 I trust your students are hard at work at completing SICL? 07:35:19 sykopomp: Sshh! I haven't told them yet. This is the first lecture. 07:35:27 oh ok! 07:35:33 gonzojive_ [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:37:31 sykopomp: what is SICL? 07:37:56 DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has joined #lisp 07:37:56 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-ihgbdgruqesqxage] has joined #lisp 07:38:16 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:38:29 good morning 07:38:49 oh, hi students 07:39:12 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:40:00 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@cpe-24-193-116-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 07:40:48 hello mvilleneuve 07:41:15 zvrba: A crazy project. See cl.net /project/sicl. 07:41:40 zvrba: The purpose is to supply modules for implementers of Common Lisp systems. 07:41:50 ahh, ok. now i remember 07:42:30 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 07:46:29 plage`: I've been on holidays for two weeks, but I should be able to commit my changes (initial LOOP code generation) this week 07:46:32 e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-smdlwlqqdohsyraq] has joined #lisp 07:46:47 mvilleneuve: Oh, that would be fantastic! 07:48:08 -!- oskar__ [~oskar@c83-250-205-17.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:49:13 mvilleneuve: I hope the holidays were good and restful. Where were you again? 07:50:15 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-158-218.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:50:49 -!- HDurer_home [~holly@home.sinclair-durer.net] has quit [Changing host] 07:50:49 HDurer_home [~holly@pdpc/supporter/active/hdurer] has joined #lisp 07:51:21 plage`: ... I am on my way to psychiatric ward, probably, so I don't count ^^; 07:51:30 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050069203.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 07:52:07 plage`: Reunion Island 07:52:12 tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:52:23 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-smdlwlqqdohsyraq] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:52:33 e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-aqzwtcucdoqcpdia] has joined #lisp 07:53:48 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-aqzwtcucdoqcpdia] has quit [Client Quit] 07:54:00 e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-qialmunpigtyjcam] has joined #lisp 07:56:10 p_l|backup: You'll be out in no time. :) And you'll still count. 07:56:24 mvilleneuve: Ah, nice. I should go there sometime. 07:56:48 Is there a reason, besides historical happenstance, why CL's conditions aren't called exceptions? 07:57:06 -!- s1ugg0 [~Chrish@c-75-64-77-87.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has left #lisp 07:57:08 ecraven [~user@140.78.42.213] has joined #lisp 08:04:02 <[df]> sykopomp: I assumed it was because they're not necessarily exceptional 08:06:45 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 08:06:49 CLHS calls them the situations where they are signaled "Exceptional Situations" 08:07:19 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Client Quit] 08:09:58 -!- nefo [~nefo@2402:f000:5:8f01::143:81] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:10:48 nefo [~nefo@2402:f000:5:8f01::143:81] has joined #lisp 08:10:48 -!- nefo [~nefo@2402:f000:5:8f01::143:81] has quit [Changing host] 08:10:48 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 08:11:33 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 08:12:43 sykopomp: One of KMP's paper gives [df]'s point as reason 08:13:21 sykopomp: I guess all conditions signaled in "Exceptional Situations" are subtypes of errors 08:13:41 so all makes sense :-) 08:14:00 wvdschel [~wim@unaffiliated/yukito] has joined #lisp 08:14:11 I'm not entirely sure what sorts of situations using conditions make sense in that don't involve some kind of 'exceptional situation'. 08:14:28 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #lisp 08:14:42 I mean, not that you -can't- just use conditions to alter control flow during perfectly normal execution. 08:15:26 warnings? 08:15:34 notes? 08:15:48 well, but you're warning or taking note of an exceptional situation, aren't you? 08:16:32 If you define "exceptional" to mean "situation where you want to inform caller", then sure there's no difference :-) 08:16:57 I mean to say, aren't we coming to a semantic discussion? 08:17:58 sykopomp: If you look at special variables for a way to pass information down, than the condition system is a way to pass information up the stack 08:18:13 That's quite possible. I was just wondering if there was a significant distinction between the capabilities and purpose of a so-called exception system versus CL's conditions. 08:18:58 freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-117.vpn.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 08:18:59 beaumonta [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 08:19:14 tcr: that's a fun way to think about them! 08:19:15 -!- beaumonta is now known as abeaumont_ 08:19:19 "exception" has a cpu / hardware meaning, too? 08:19:33 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 08:19:35 perhaps that's why it was always association with a situation of no continuation 08:20:41 -!- dfkjjkfd_ [~paulh@145.120.22.20] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:20:47 I've used conditions to simulate some of the things that used to be done with compiler-let 08:21:10 basically, letting something somewhere high up the stack inform the compiler how to compile some little form a long way down 08:22:49 -!- timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-64-118.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:23:45 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:24:10 cinch [~cinch@85-127-109-38.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 08:24:37 cool, i can inspect machine code in slime. 08:25:01 discovered this by accident today. 08:25:20 beyond just DISASSEMBLE? 08:25:33 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive_] 08:27:27 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 08:27:58 ignas [~ignas@85-206-23-33.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 08:28:43 in the inspector. 08:28:52 it will show you what i presume are the results of that. 08:29:10 hey sykopomp, i'm going to have a new screenshot shortly. 08:35:25 ehu [~ehuels@109.33.139.97] has joined #lisp 08:40:59 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-ihgbdgruqesqxage] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:41:28 -!- wvdschel [~wim@unaffiliated/yukito] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:41:37 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 08:41:45 wvdschel 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gemelen homie` zeroish DarthShrine paradoja charliekilo bulibuta tritchey Yuuhi gnooth entrosca 15:32:17 -!- names: araujo tsuru mitre_ churib_ churib dto gravicappa lanthan_afh nha Frakk stassats hlavaty mcsontos ch077179 rootzlevel Phoodus az johs m4thrick_ insomniaSalt Guthur s0ber cods sepi Koven boysetsfrog jsnell baley felipe leo2007 acieroid aerique pdo abeaumont_ freiksenet tessier mega1 ecraven tcr AntiSpamMeta mvilleneuve cmm rokstar Vivitron simplechat rapacity luis zvrba Patzy kleppari meadowlark vlion` murilasso Salamander TraumaPony slyrus gonzojive joast 15:32:17 -!- names: ineiros TeMPOraL joshe Zhivago tomaw erk SecretAg1nt jesusabdullah rdd starseeker jamief Adrinael cpt_nemo zc00gii jomat mreggen Bucciarati rafl lonstein ddv njan- dcrawford bfein slyrus_ drdo puddingpimp Demosthenes frodef mal__ JuanDaugherty tic pierrep clop2 pok_ scode_ SsvRrwQ fe[nl]ix daniel djinni` SpitfireWP cYmen V-ille sykopomp sword nuba Modius sellout tvaalen quasisane rabite lispmeister_ Yamazaki-kun phadthai elly mornfall antoszka sentry 15:32:17 -!- names: Dodek Tordek pkhuong_ galdor ace4016 mon_key strlen_ Landr ASau mgr_ ve Khisanth gor[e] tychoish qebab karbak kloeri fmu vsync_ sid3k Buganini krappie_ ozzloy codemonk1yx akkartik Caffeine Krystof spcshpopr8r mtd timchen1` nickaugust Quetzalcoatl_ spacebat dostoyevsky setheus petter` foom blitz_ nullman pr_ Kerrick superflit pmd prip reb gz xristos borism ``Erik_ Borbus koning_robot austinh_ eno_ ianmcorvidae|alt sacho rtoym_ stepnem em_ defn_ kooll majoh 15:32:17 -!- names: Pepe_ rotty_ bzzbzz timjstewart hugod nowhereman Ginei_Morioka didi rread La0fer katesmith clog guaqua_ quasi_ Euthydemus` snorble p_l|backup hdurer`` dmiles_afk peddie somnium` silentbicycle pdo` lharc pchrist easyE NNshag arbscht housel redline6561 delYsid bigjust_` yan_ pjb lichtblau billstclair lolsuper_ xinming Fullma peterhil rahul replete Ralith amaron ramus alexsuraci sigjuice Obfuscate Quadrescence compmstr npoektop schme lnostdal HDurer_home krl 15:32:17 -!- names: johanbev trigen kae cataska chrnybo OliverUv yahooooo ironChicken ivan4th jayne Draggor adeht [df] dym svk_ abeaumont Intensity unalmsed Tristam cibs PuffTheMagic talyz mindCrime froydnj lusory Fade l_a_m shachaf theBlackDragon derrida albino gju_ @antifuchs fmu__ eli |3b| zbigniew gds deepfire boyscared hohum Tasunteld DrForr cky euphidime ejohnson jrockway _3b lianj kencausey Zahl_ Axioplase_ herbieB fds z0d 15:36:57 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-117.vpn.helsinki.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:39:07 -!- abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:39:29 iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-150-188.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 15:39:51 sonnym [~evissecer@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has joined #lisp 15:40:10 -!- joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has left #lisp 15:40:27 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:41:55 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:44:00 -!- schme is now known as schmx 15:45:26 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-92-122-253.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:46:34 -!- peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has quit [Quit: peace!] 15:46:38 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-117-139.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:48:07 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:49:13 -!- superflit [~superflit@c-24-9-162-197.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: superflit] 15:50:03 -!- joast [~rick@CPE-76-178-178-72.natnow.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:50:42 milanj [~milanj_@178-223-134-41.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 15:53:05 edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 15:54:51 -!- mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 15:55:31 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:55:38 Krystof: given that Emacs is written in not exactly good C and Elisp, it's kinda true 15:58:20 longshot [~longshot@216.131.74.24] has joined #lisp 16:00:30 morning 16:00:46 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 16:01:25 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 16:03:49 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 16:04:17 hi slyrus_ :) 16:04:24 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-78-35-187-231.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:05:53 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 16:07:34 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-174.mirrorimage.net] has left #lisp 16:08:10 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@221.220.249.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:08:49 hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-174.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 16:09:11 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 16:10:15 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:14:26 qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has joined #lisp 16:14:46 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:14:57 fe[nl]ix: Did you really need some new stuff from series? 16:14:59 superflit [~superflit@140.226.49.160] has joined #lisp 16:15:11 rtoym_: no, it was just a joke :D 16:15:29 Heh. Ok. It's feature complete. :-) 16:15:53 rtoym_: but if you want to add some new feature I won't stop you 16:16:34 No, I don't need anything from series. I don't even use it much anymore. 16:16:45 mega1_ [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 16:17:03 Bronsa [~brace@host170-181-dynamic.6-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:17:33 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-dgqmnqjjuzfrqrde] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:17:40 mheld [~mheld@c-75-69-89-109.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:17:48 iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@61.43.139.3] has joined #lisp 16:18:22 cods_ [~cods@tuxee.net] has joined #lisp 16:18:38 aerique_ [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 16:18:45 acieroid` [~acieroid@wtf.awesom.eu] has joined #lisp 16:18:47 zvrba_ [~zvrba@anakin.ifi.uio.no] has joined #lisp 16:19:05 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@114.93.130.227] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:19:30 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-174.mirrorimage.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:20:04 -!- cods [~cods@tuxee.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:20:04 hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-174.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:24 -!- cods_ is now known as cods 16:20:42 OT: Wow. Voyager 1 has outdistanced the solar wind. 16:21:05 -!- guaqua_ [gua@xob.kapsi.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:21:55 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 16:22:06 -!- aerique_ [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 16:22:40 guaqua [gua@xob.kapsi.fi] has joined #lisp 16:23:17 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-132-114.vologda.ru] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:23:17 -!- acieroid [~acieroid@wtf.awesom.eu] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:23:17 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:23:17 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:23:17 -!- meadowlark [~meadowlar@unaffiliated/meadowlark] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:23:18 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:23:18 -!- Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:23:18 -!- zvrba [~zvrba@anakin.ifi.uio.no] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:23:29 Aargh. Virtualbox says my machine doesn't have sse2 which means I can't run cmucl with sse2. Maybe I should add a force flag. 16:23:37 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 16:23:41 -!- iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@61.43.139.3] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:23:59 meadowlark [~meadowlar@samson.mcs.anl.gov] has joined #lisp 16:24:24 -!- meadowlark is now known as Guest42663 16:24:37 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 16:24:52 -!- acieroid` is now known as acieroid 16:26:36 Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:44 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:27:00 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 16:27:11 my lisp books finally arrived. 5 days late. 16:27:32 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-221-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:27:52 leo2007: a tragedy, indeed 16:28:05 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:28:08 unfortunately lisp has changed completely in that time and your books are obsolete :( 16:28:43 yeah, releases are old 16:28:49 leo2007: you should get those books from git 16:29:09 Xach: I wish that were true. 16:29:21 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-132-114.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 16:29:22 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 16:29:34 fe[nl]ix: unlikely 16:30:32 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-44-71.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 16:30:40 -!- em_ [~em@user-0cev0kt.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:31:17 i'm getting all my books from quickbook 16:32:46 -!- guaqua [gua@xob.kapsi.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:33:54 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 16:34:26 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 16:35:18 -!- emma is now known as em 16:36:05 iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@61.43.139.4] has joined #lisp 16:37:44 moxiemk1 [~moxiemk1@ETSY.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #lisp 16:40:04 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-187-231.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:42:19 -!- iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@61.43.139.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:43:30 Is it possible in bordeaux-threads to make a thread object but not run it right away? 16:43:51 sure, let it wait on a condition-variable 16:44:54 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:46:23 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:48:15 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 16:49:36 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:49:53 guaqua [gua@xob.kapsi.fi] has joined #lisp 16:50:11 -!- eno_ [~eno@adsl-70-137-163-128.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:50:26 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:51:49 -!- xan_ [~xan@65.141.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:53:35 MoALTz [~no@92.8.25.126] has joined #lisp 16:54:05 -!- kanru [~kanru@118-168-238-114.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:54:44 HET2 [~diman@host81-149-242-213.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #lisp 17:00:13 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:00:40 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-54.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:00:47 -!- Guthur [c743cb8c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.199.67.203.140] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:01:48 Drdo: If you can settle with an sbcl-only solution, I wrote a BARRIER synchronization tool which counts up until a certain threshold (and have all threads wait until that number is reached), and then release all threads 17:06:15 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:07:50 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 17:09:36 tcr: Eh, i only need a very simple thing, i just used a lock 17:10:46 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 17:11:25 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-20-25.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:31 stassats: quickbook? 17:16:31 leo2007: a joke about git, releases, and quicklisp 17:16:46 -!- paradoja [~paradoja@211.pool80-103-161.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:17:46 *stassats* can't wait for quickquickbasic 17:20:15 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@chello212186106204.11.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:25:08 Xach: ok. 17:25:13 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.113.174.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:25:46 urandom__ [~user@p548A6AFC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:31:02 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.33.139.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:33:17 gonzojive_ [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:33:36 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:33:53 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-ausbquwrkjcyeqtb] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:33:55 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 17:38:01 splittist [~John@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 17:38:04 morning 17:38:32 jmckitrick [~user@adsl-92-243-131.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:38 stas: I'm here 17:38:39 hi splittist. any further backtraces for me today? 17:38:44 craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 17:38:46 stassats: I'm here 17:38:58 jmckitrick: hi 17:39:47 Xach: sorry. My attempt to get one yesterday blew the terminal buffer and I've been too busy. Perhaps when I go on holiday... 17:39:59 jmckitrick: so, i added proper table formatting and it looks good to me, so i don't really see any low-hanging fruits anymore 17:40:25 Does anyone know if there's something like quicklisp for java? 17:40:35 stassats: Let me try loading it again. Last time I did, I didn't get the file index to display. 17:40:40 drdo: I think "maven" is supposed to do soemthing like that, but I don't know. 17:40:43 Not sure if the menu changed, or what... 17:40:53 *Xach* does not use java 17:41:06 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:41:15 I don't use java either, i'm going to play around with clojure 17:43:51 I think they use something called "leiningen" 17:44:06 stassats: I got an error on suppress-html keyword arg. Going to check it out. 17:44:13 I assume yours runs fine on your box? 17:44:39 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:44:59 jmckitrick: yes, and there should be no references to suppress-html anywhere 17:49:10 rindolf [~shlomi@bzq-79-176-22-252.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 17:49:39 Hi all. Can anyone tell me why http://paste.lisp.org/display/117692 fails with "There is no class named TAP-PRODUCER." ? 17:50:06 Because there is no class named tap-producer? 17:50:17 rindolf: because you're not using the right package? 17:50:23 drdo: but it exists in the snippet in the README. 17:50:49 rindolf: read what stassats said 17:52:10 stassats: what is the right package? 17:52:52 rindolf: You should probably read a book about CL 17:53:16 drdo: I've read one. 17:53:23 "Practical Common Lisp" 17:54:03 rindolf: do you know what a package is? 17:54:18 Xach: yes, I do. 17:54:32 rindolf: Do you understand now why you aren't using the correct one in your paste? 17:55:15 Xach: no, I don't. 17:55:41 rindolf: You are trying to make an instance of a class named by the symbol CL-USER::TAP-PRODUCER. 17:56:07 Xach: OK. 17:56:12 rindolf: But you actually want to make an instance of a class named by the symbol TESTBILD:TAP-PRODUCER. 17:56:14 Xach: that's not what I want. 17:56:18 srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 17:56:26 Xach: well, the second this is what I want. 17:56:46 rindolf: How you write those symbols and how they print depends on the current package (the value of CL:*PACKAGE*) and its relationships to other packages. 17:57:20 rindolf: If you want to write TAP-PRODUCER with no package prefix, CL:*PACKAGE* must be a package that "use"s the testbild package. cl-user isn't such a package. 17:57:29 -!- edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: edlinde] 17:57:44 rindolf: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/programming-in-the-large-packages-and-symbols.html might be worth reading again. 17:58:27 rindolf: examples in readmes assume you know about how that works. 17:58:33 sometimes they assume, that is. 17:59:04 Xach: thanks, it works after I added (use-package 'testbild) 17:59:14 -!- hlavaty [~user@95-88-27-48-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:59:21 -!- superflit [~superflit@140.226.49.160] has quit [Quit: superflit] 17:59:39 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-187-231.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:05:04 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:05:50 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 18:07:07 stassats: ok, got it working 18:07:28 How's slime-cover coming along? 18:07:38 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo] 18:08:52 tcr: that's what we're working on now. Hopefully ready to commit soon. 18:09:01 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:14:34 askatasuna [~askatasun@host230.190-3-1.static.telmex.net.ar] has joined #lisp 18:21:01 bsod1 [~osa1@188.56.132.239] has joined #lisp 18:22:57 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.56.132.239] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:25:02 pnq [~nick@AC8109B8.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 18:27:09 joergen [~joergen@e178068223.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:29:42 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-24-4-147-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:30:52 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 18:33:05 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178-223-134-41.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:33:10 -!- mtk [~mtk@ool-182c8e6c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:33:54 -!- barandis [~thomas@66.208.14.74] has quit [Quit: barandis] 18:34:05 eugu [~eugene@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 18:35:16 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-187-231.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:35:50 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:36:04 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:06 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 18:37:16 faux [~user@c-219c70d5.035-128-67626713.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 18:37:34 milanj [~milanj_@109-93-201-46.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 18:39:56 mtk [~mtk@ool-182c8e6c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 18:41:06 rfg [~rfg@host81-102-106-232.not-set-yet.ntli.net] has joined #lisp 18:43:59 -!- jmckitrick [~user@adsl-92-243-131.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:45:44 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:08 Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 18:53:35 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:56:05 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.8.25.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:00:10 Edward [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-33-154.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:00:51 tcr: re slime-cover, i think it's almost complete feature-wise, but needs some testing 19:01:26 what is slime-cover? 19:01:31 -!- HET2 [~diman@host81-149-242-213.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:01:43 code coverage interface 19:02:18 stassats: now if only there was also convenient asdf integration for it :-) 19:03:08 ,coverage-system might be nice! 19:03:37 MoALTz [~no@92.8.25.126] has joined #lisp 19:04:01 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:04:19 Slime, hacking around insufficiencies in the Lisp universe since 2003! 19:05:46 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 19:05:55 Guthur: looks like http://common-lisp.net/~sboukarev/slime-cover.png 19:07:18 this sounds like a very good tool 19:08:27 though have to admit I haven't looked into testing tools enough in regards to CL 19:08:40 -!- timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has left #lisp 19:08:47 it's currently working on a modified sb-cover, jmckitrick is going to make it work on ccl too 19:08:50 c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:09:06 Nice. 19:10:48 joast [~rick@CPE-76-178-178-72.natnow.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:11:09 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-117-139.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: HG`] 19:11:19 antgreen [~user@modemcable192.102-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 19:12:24 -!- eldragon [~eldragon@84.79.67.254] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:12:32 if somebody is very eager to try it out, without waiting while its integrated into slime and sbcl, there it is https://github.com/stassats/slime-cover 19:14:26 barandis [~thomas@66.208.14.74] has joined #lisp 19:15:55 eldragon [~eldragon@84.79.67.254] has joined #lisp 19:16:09 nice work 19:16:15 -!- joergen [~joergen@e178068223.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:17:27 -!- iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-150-188.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:18:03 billitch [~billitch@rob92-1-82-67-155-88.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:20:21 -!- rfg [~rfg@host81-102-106-232.not-set-yet.ntli.net] has quit [Quit: rfg] 19:21:06 timjstewart [~tims@159.182.183.6] has joined #lisp 19:24:19 -!- eldragon [~eldragon@84.79.67.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:29:24 -!- Edward [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-33-154.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:30:43 -!- borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has left #lisp 19:31:21 Hm. 19:31:54 in 6.1.2.1.6, what's an "empty slot" in a hash table? 19:32:07 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:32:30 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 19:33:51 empty elements of the underlying vector? 19:34:45 bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.157.110] has joined #lisp 19:34:51 paradoja [~paradoja@193.145.150.120] has joined #lisp 19:35:41 gigamonkey: Ok, I seem to be getting the hang of this 19:36:03 Edward [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-33-154.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:36:58 stassats: yeah, I assume so - but none of the other hash iteration constructs mention it, so it seems suspect 19:38:36 rfg [~rfg@client-80-5-172-231.glw-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has joined #lisp 19:39:38 antifuchs: doesn't appear in the hash table concepts, either 19:39:45 yeah 19:39:52 I'm going to assume it's an editorial oversight (: 19:40:20 gigamonkey: the latest stumbling block is that for I need to keep track of the position in the file as boxes can have children -- which extend to the length of the box, with no delimiter 19:40:41 s/for/for certain boxes/ 19:42:00 too bad I cant' add it to Proposed%20 19:42:27 (cliki's "edit" link just adds /edit/ to the URL (:) 19:43:13 slyrus: yeah, that was the one thing that looked a bit hinky when I looked at the spec. 19:43:24 length of the file, right? 19:43:26 I think I might have a way to do it 19:43:40 I.e. there can only be one such box and it's the last one, right? 19:43:44 no, for nested boxes, it's to the length of a box 19:43:48 Ah. 19:43:58 But you know the length of the box in which you are nested? 19:44:43 The current object stack may be relevant. 19:45:30 mgr_: typo: "Hochschule für/r/ Gestaltung" (-: 19:46:38 And there are always dynamic variables. ;-) 19:47:37 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.157.110] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:47:48 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-204-63.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:48:28 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-204-63.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:50:51 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 19:51:18 gigamonkey: I think I can get away with just checking the sum of the boxes read so far and stopping when I hit the length of current box 19:52:27 bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.172.68] has joined #lisp 19:53:25 daniel_ [~daniel@p50829DD3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:40 but now a more basic question... So now I have nested boxes. I have a box class. I want a subclass of that class that his a variable number of child boxes. I can do that with define-binary-class? 19:55:04 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5B3269B9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:55:20 -!- Guest42663 [~meadowlar@samson.mcs.anl.gov] has left #lisp 19:55:55 gigamonkey: do I need some sort of list binary-type analogous to optional? 19:57:56 joergen [~joergen@e178068223.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:59:12 npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 20:00:16 symbole [~user@216.214.176.130] has joined #lisp 20:00:28 -!- charliekilo [~charlieki@70-89-224-81-BusName-panjde.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:00:36 eldragon [~eldragon@84.79.67.254] has joined #lisp 20:01:12 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.91.2] 20:01:36 hm, where are you hefner, we need to talk 20:02:43 southeast asia 20:03:53 ha 20:06:05 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-187-231.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:11:27 iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-150-188.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 20:11:52 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:13:52 no foolin', see http://twitter.com/robotickilldozr 20:14:55 rrice1 [~rrice@76.253.138.137] has joined #lisp 20:15:17 -!- rrice1 [~rrice@76.253.138.137] has quit [Client Quit] 20:15:31 -!- billitch [~billitch@rob92-1-82-67-155-88.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:16:36 ls 20:17:28 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:17:45 -!- rrice [~rrice@99.164.39.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:18:15 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 20:18:39 francogrex [~user@109.130.67.236] has joined #lisp 20:22:37 slyrus: I'm back. Let me think a minuite. 20:22:39 minute. 20:25:49 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-233-195-101.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn you have to set yourself on fire.] 20:28:25 slyrus: how are the lists delimited? By a count or an end marker? 20:29:49 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:29:55 slyrus: this http://paste.lisp.org/display/117697 shows how I handled reading the constant pool outof Java .class files. 20:32:54 robwolfe [~rw@ip-79-175-248-34.cable.smsnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:33:51 zhulikas [zhulikas@3e6b7b31.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #lisp 20:34:11 -!- paradoja [~paradoja@193.145.150.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:35:50 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:35:51 justinko [~Adium@c-24-9-175-166.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:36:43 can someone explain to me what "cadadr" expands to? 20:37:07 *Xach* has used CL for many years, can't explain 20:37:32 (car (cdr (car (cdr x)))) 20:38:07 Or, if you prefer, (compose car cdr car cdr). 20:38:45 oh, so it expands into three character list functions 20:39:00 got it, thank you 20:39:26 cddr is (cdr (cdr x)) 20:39:31 "expand" is not quite right. it has the same effect as. 20:40:31 I'm a Ruby developer, any of you work in Lisp full-time as a job? 20:40:34 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:40:45 superflit [~superflit@140.226.49.160] has joined #lisp 20:41:08 luis does! 20:41:23 justinko: I have a full-time job working on a program at least half of which is written in Lisp. Does that count? 20:41:46 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:42:46 foom: awesome 20:42:53 justinko: A number of people here also work for ITA Software, which uses CL a lot. 20:42:56 what do you guys think of clojure? 20:43:06 justinko: As to whether Google will oust CL, now that it's acquiring ITA, who knows. 20:43:35 cky: we've wondered that too 20:43:45 I predict that there is approximately 0% chance of rewriting the app in another language. 20:44:01 justinko: I work on a pretty big lisp system full-time 20:44:18 justinko: my impression is most CL'ers respect Clojure as a decent language design but I haven't noticed too many folks switching. 20:44:34 foom: but will Scott write his own "beating the averages" once the acquisition is done? (-: 20:44:35 slyrus: uses both, as I understand it. 20:44:49 justinko: I don't work on Lisp full time, but I'm a contractor and work with it whenever I can. (Currently 2 days a week Lisp, 2 days "other") 20:46:24 dlowe: If Google tells you guys to stop using CL, what would you do? 20:46:27 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.113.174.138] has joined #lisp 20:46:55 dlowe: (Of course I sincerely hope it doesn't come to that!) 20:47:03 I kind of doubt that google would do that. 20:47:10 cky: not exactly my call 20:47:22 even if CL doesn't exactly fit into the system culture at google. 20:47:23 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 20:47:25 I almost use cl all the time, if one considers using rcl and odbc cl libraries to access R and oracle database as pure cl activities 20:47:49 dlowe: It's one of those "would you suck it up or quit" kind of questions. :-) 20:48:17 cky: I doubt too many of us can afford to quit jobs because they won't let us use CL. 20:48:24 That's true. 20:48:25 would that weren't true. 20:48:29 cky: I think for most people here, the language was an attraction, but not a deal breaker 20:48:33 *nods* 20:48:48 cky: You can't just "stop using CL" when your entire app is written in it. 20:49:03 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 20:49:10 cky: my guess is they they'd chuckle, cough politely and then back away slowly 20:49:10 cky: if Google said to rewrite the whole app in another language, I suspect there'd be a lot of moaning over what a waste of time that was 20:49:12 foom: Well, Yahoo kind of did that with the Viaweb store. 20:49:13 well, you can throw the legacy into maintenance and fire up a big porting effort. 20:49:32 Viaweb store was a tiny app 20:49:32 because clearly, google wouldn't have been very diligent in their pre-acquisition checkup (: 20:49:42 no offense to it 20:49:44 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 20:49:47 Hehehehe. 20:50:13 It would certainly be *possible* to port the whole thing, but I don't think it would be sane. 20:50:14 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 20:50:29 what's viaweb written in now? Is viaweb still considered succesful today? 20:50:31 Having one app in CL might not change the general policy of "No CL code", and I wouldn't blame them for that 20:50:39 I was kind of hoping that the lispyness at ITA was one of the acquisition points for google. 20:50:46 foom: *nods* 20:51:14 Ron Garrett's blog about being a Lisp nerd at Google was pretty amusing. 20:51:30 wasn't he the guy who flew his private plane to work? 20:51:36 "I was surrounded by people as smart as me! But they didn't use Lisp!" => amazing! 20:51:40 Xach: yeah. seemed to imply that lisp was vaguely disdained. :) 20:51:55 Does google have a 'No CL code' policy 20:51:57 ? 20:52:16 Guthur: From what I hear, Google's official production languages are C++, Java, Python, and JS. Maybe they'll change their tune, who knows. 20:52:22 Guthur: I've heard that, but I cannot say so definitively. 20:52:31 Guthur: no, it has an "Only C, C++, Python, Java" policy. 20:52:37 Guthur: well, garrett's blog seemed to indicate that proposing a lisp project at google could get you marked out as a crank. 20:53:08 ah, well a 'chosen few' policy makes a bit more sense 20:53:09 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.22] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:53:12 Fade: statistically, seems like a good policy. 20:53:15 presumably you're allowed to write code in Go now too? :) 20:53:20 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has quit [Client Quit] 20:53:35 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 20:53:37 ..or maybe not, maybe it's just to trick us outsiders. :P 20:53:38 foom: Some of their stuff is, from what I hear, but I don't know if it's mature enough for it to be allowed across the board. 20:53:40 pkhuong_: heh. yeah, well. :) 20:53:47 Fade: it helps that he's also an actual crank. 20:53:53 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has quit [Client Quit] 20:53:59 -!- pkhuong_ is now known as pkhuong 20:54:10 *Fade* chuckles 20:54:26 Xach: ITYM "doesn't help" (-; 20:54:30 I'd like to be a crank and actually using CL than otherwise 20:54:35 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@host230.190-3-1.static.telmex.net.ar] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 20:54:39 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 20:54:43 better than normal and using C++ *shudder* 20:54:55 I still can't help but feel that Go is an elaborate trick. :) 20:54:59 -!- craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:55:03 I don't mind using C++ as long as I don't have to mess with other people's C++ 20:55:13 Guthur: hell is other people's C++. 20:55:31 now that my neurology thinks about programming problems in terms of lisp, i'm kind of bjorked for other languages. 20:55:41 I've been writing python code in sexps all weeek. :P 20:55:45 Hmm, I just got "Serious errors encountered during compilation"... in CCL, but I don't see immediately in the compilation output what serious error that might be. What can I look for to find it? 20:56:09 oh the accidently sexp'ing, I'm doing this all the time 20:56:36 wasn't there a compliant python-to-CL compiler at one time? 20:56:37 Xach: *break-on-signals*? 20:56:39 it's super annoying, because my first reflex is to think "that's not a valid function in CL..." 20:56:53 http://common-lisp.net/project/clpython/ 20:57:01 clpython is apparently active. 20:57:06 supports python2.5 now. 20:57:41 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-187-231.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:58:12 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-204-63.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:58:16 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:58:17 yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 20:58:31 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 20:58:32 mg4001 [~mg4001@cpe-76-93-28-217.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:58:44 is there something like mapcan that doesn't destrcutively change its first list? 20:58:47 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:58:54 could use a little more documentation 20:59:04 dlowe: aye 20:59:06 yvdriess: mapcan doesn't change any list 20:59:13 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-204-63.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 21:00:12 spec says it uses nconc 21:00:13 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d012496.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:00:14 which does 21:00:19 Hmm, who is the portableaserve wrangler these days? 21:00:38 yvdriess: what do you mean by "first list"? 21:00:40 is there anyone? 21:00:48 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 21:01:01 yvdriess: it uses nconc on the returned results of the function you pass to it 21:01:03 antifuchs: must be you! 21:01:08 NOOOOOOOOO 21:01:24 antifuchs: i think you first alerted me to acl-compat living in there 21:02:00 I don't think that was me... but try rudi. he's generally responsive 21:02:03 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 21:02:04 antifuchs: I'm doing some bulk testing of ClozureCL and acl-compat fails due to some changed APIs. 21:02:17 acl-socket-openmcl is not surprisingly out of date 21:02:17 where is nyef these days? 21:02:22 -!- robwolfe [~rw@ip-79-175-248-34.cable.smsnet.pl] has left #lisp 21:03:34 bhyde [~Adium@c-66-30-201-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:03:40 hmm 21:03:49 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:04:09 I'm doing a mapcar on the result of a mapcan, and magically something gets added 21:04:19 is google being hacked? http://imgur.com/NJLrm.png 21:04:29 yvdriess: pastebot 21:04:58 leo2007: that "uk" thing looks suspicious. probably a hacker "tag". 21:05:17 so I'm reading the land of lisp book - awesome so far 21:05:18 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 21:05:24 the searchbox disappeared 21:05:27 what do you guys recommend as a documentation resource? 21:05:27 anybody know of a way to inspect the "advice" that has been placed on a function in lispworks? i can't shake this app... somebody advised compile-file 21:05:34 google.ca shows a 'Canada' tag under the last two letters in the logo. 21:05:46 an online resource of clisp functions, etc. 21:05:46 justinko: Serious CL hackers learn how to find things in the CLHS and parse its style. 21:06:03 justinko: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Front/index.htm 21:06:10 justinko: see also http://clqr.berlios.de 21:06:15 edlinde [~edlinde@nl107-186-195.student.uu.se] has joined #lisp 21:06:28 justinko: I like to set my emacs process to open hyperspec pages in a w3m.el buffer. 21:07:48 -!- rindolf [~shlomi@bzq-79-176-22-252.red.bezeqint.net] has left #lisp 21:08:04 Fade, Inspirational idea, I think I will just copy you, hehe 21:08:19 w3m inside emacs is a huge win. 21:08:24 phromo [phromo@c-c1c2e455.015-359-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 21:08:28 i find it cuts down massively on doc-related context switching. 21:08:47 in Emacs 24 you don't even need w3m. 21:08:57 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has quit [Client Quit] 21:09:12 Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050068188.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:09:18 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 21:09:31 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:10:07 http://paste.lisp.org/display/117701 21:10:15 crap forgot to add the output 21:10:16 sec 21:10:16 Xach: thanks! 21:11:02 annotated with result 21:11:34 you can recognise the problematic value by the #1 21:13:14 there is no setting going on, besides the mapcan 21:13:26 yvdriess: mapcan is a destructive operator 21:13:32 yes that's what I said :) 21:13:46 dlowe> yvdriess: mapcan doesn't change any list 21:14:19 Xach: I constantly use your awesomely useful clhs symbol lookup at http://www.xach.com/clhs, but I often wish for something closer to a full-text search. Do you have any plans of implementing something like that? 21:14:22 yvdriess: what do you mean by "first list"? 21:14:26 the first list it maps in 21:14:54 -!- barandis [~thomas@66.208.14.74] has quit [Quit: barandis] 21:15:13 gabnet [~gabnet@172.63.193-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 21:15:44 use alexandria:mappend 21:15:46 koning_robot: Not any time soon, sorry. I think lispdoc.com might do something like that. 21:16:02 adeht, thanks! 21:16:45 yvdriess: mapcan doesn't change the list you pass to it as an argument. It changes the lists you return from the function :p 21:17:31 dlowe, ok, tue :) 21:19:10 time to get some sleep, writing too much errors like that into my code :/ 21:19:23 Xach: that's okay. I might do something like it myself. 21:19:51 -!- zhulikas [zhulikas@3e6b7b31.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:21:40 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 21:21:50 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:22:55 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 21:23:09 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 21:24:57 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has quit [Client Quit] 21:26:04 gigamonkey: if I have box, and a-box and b-box, which each inherit from box, can I have a c-box which inherits from both a-box and c-box? 21:27:59 i have the spec in info and chm format. info integrates really well in emacs and is "searchable" as in keep pressing C-s and it'll travel the whole CL info. chm is really cool, a container with a TOC, a symbol index and a full text search 21:27:59 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 21:28:01 craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 21:29:12 the info versions (i have 2) are the one from gcl and the other from here: http://www.phys.au.dk/~harder/dpans.html 21:30:14 slyrus: is that a general CL question? (if so, "yes, unless a-box and b-box also have other superclasses") 21:30:31 ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-233-195-101.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 21:30:32 the chm version was generated from the HTML CLHS almost automatically with emacs scripts and hhc.exe, i'm thinking in spending a little time cleaning it up and share it 21:30:46 Krystof: no, it's for gigamonkey's define-binary-class machinery 21:30:49 but, thanks 21:31:20 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-233-195-101.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 21:31:21 temp_ace [~ace4016@adsl-233-195-101.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:40 -!- temp_ace is now known as ace4016 21:31:57 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-187-231.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:32:01 -!- churib [~tg@dslc-082-082-099-065.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:32:10 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:32:57 Looking at the code for define-binary-class it looks like you can. 21:33:10 -!- churib_ [~tg@dslc-082-082-099-065.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:33:55 billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:33:57 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-187-231.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:34:18 say, what's the deal with the legality of distributing material based on the dpans spec? 21:34:35 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 21:34:51 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:35:02 pmd: irredeemably murky. 21:35:46 slyrus: it will, as far as I can tell, read/write the slots in the order the super classes are listed. 21:36:00 is there any recommended resources regarding creating DSLs with CL? 21:36:09 pmd: well, on its face it can be used for anything, iirc 21:36:10 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-187-231.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:36:36 OK. I think I get some duplicated methods, but perhaps those can be ignored. 21:37:18 I'm a bit confused about why it defines read-object and write-object with the PROGN method combination. 21:37:31 That could possibly be a bug. 21:37:42 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-187-231.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:38:54 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:39:10 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 21:39:26 -!- Vivitron [ad4c080a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.76.8.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:39:47 what about based on clhs? one of the things i tried was to filter out the huge headers from every html page, since they're useless (hh.exe shows back and forward buttons and it has a TOC) and it's a lot of wasted space 21:40:30 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-187-231.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:41:00 pmd: for the CLHS, there are strong claims made about the proprietory nature of the markup 21:41:46 -!- edlinde [~edlinde@nl107-186-195.student.uu.se] has quit [Quit: edlinde] 21:42:07 splittist: hmm, yeah the copyright page is very restrictive and explicit in its words indeed 21:42:36 what about something that does that for you? i don't mean to distribute the chm myself 21:42:43 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A6AFC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:42:46 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has quit [Client Quit] 21:43:04 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 21:43:11 urandom__ [~user@p548A6AFC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:04 pmd: If a HyperSpec is modified in the woods, and noone else sees it, who's going to sue? 21:44:08 dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:31 splittist: ;) right then, i'tll just supply the chainsaws 21:45:19 -!- Bronsa [~brace@host170-181-dynamic.6-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:45:31 pmd: ah. not so simple, grasshopper. A set of tools to deal with the dpans draft would be very interesting ('let a hundred Not The HyperSpecs bloom!') 21:45:40 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:46:26 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.8.25.126] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:47:10 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:47:19 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:26 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 21:48:28 -!- mega1_ [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:50:13 -!- antgreen [~user@modemcable192.102-131-66.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:50:28 -!- mtk [~mtk@ool-182c8e6c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:51:44 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:52:03 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 21:52:30 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d012496.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:52:52 rwt [~GuessWho@ppp-70-236-44-243.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 21:54:27 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:55:25 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:55:39 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has quit [Client Quit] 21:55:57 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 21:57:02 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-187-231.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:58:20 pmd: I just realized you were talking to me; thanks, that stuff is going to be useful 21:58:21 -!- rwt [~GuessWho@ppp-70-236-44-243.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has left #lisp 21:59:18 <_3b> what *FEATURES* is good for identifying apple OS? 21:59:53 :darwin 22:00:17 koning_robot: :D i was just speaking my mind, but yes, it is useful. in fact, a chm can be used for contextual help in any app, even emacs 22:00:29 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:00:36 -!- faux [~user@c-219c70d5.035-128-67626713.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:00:44 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 22:00:44 <_3b> thanks, not that this code is likely to actually run there anyway though :) 22:01:38 _3b: I'm not the authority (not a Mac user) but that's what I put in my code, and complaints from Mac users stopped. So empirically, that's the answer. 22:01:41 -!- muhdik [~IceChat7@parkmobile-usa.oneringnetworks.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:02:04 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.193] has quit [Client Quit] 22:04:44 -!- pnq [~nick@AC8109B8.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:04:48 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 22:06:56 -!- bhyde [~Adium@c-66-30-201-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 22:07:15 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.67.236] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:07:17 Cooler_ [~sabayonus@189-68-204-222.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 22:10:04 pavelludiq [57f63ac1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 22:10:35 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@172.63.193-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 22:11:42 -!- craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:13:07 hrmn.. known problem compiling clx /w sbcl 1.0.45? 22:13:24 <_3b> yes 22:15:21 <_3b> possible temporary workaround is removing the dynamic-extent declaration it complains about 22:15:42 *_3b* doesn't remember hearing anything about status of a real fix 22:15:42 thanks 22:15:58 has it been ack'd on launchpad? 22:18:52 *_3b* doesn't see it there, was on sbcl-devel though 22:19:32 seems related to #681092 22:20:46 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:21:04 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 22:23:48 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-93-201-46.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:23:57 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.172.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:27:05 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:27:06 -!- qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has left #lisp 22:27:45 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:28:05 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:28:22 -!- phromo [phromo@c-c1c2e455.015-359-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )] 22:28:24 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo] 22:28:24 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 22:29:22 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A6AFC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:33:26 gigamonkey: Ok, I solved one of the length-based problems, which is figuring out how many boxes I should read... Now my problem is that I've got some subclasses that need to know the total size of the previous fields in order to DTRT. I have to hard code this for different classes now. If I could get this information in the define-binary-class form programatically, I'd be in good shape. 22:34:03 -!- powerje [~powerj@rrcs-74-218-15-82.central.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: powerje] 22:34:37 pnq [~nick@AC8225B4.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 22:42:40 gigamonkey: also, inheritance is a bit of a problem (as perhaps evidenced by the progn method combination) as it's not always clear in which order things are going to appear... I may have superclass A's header info, followed by the stuff from class C, followed by some fields from superclass B. One needs to be able to specify the order -- but it would be nice not have to cut-and-paste _everything_ 22:43:07 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: brb] 22:43:29 bgs100 [~ian@h95.43.28.71.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 22:43:29 -!- bgs100 [~ian@h95.43.28.71.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:43:29 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 22:47:04 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:47:04 slyrus: modulo that progn which I don't understand and think is a bug, I think the inheritance should work the way one would want: you define a class and it has some slots which are read and written in a particular order. 22:47:27 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:47:43 yes, as long as the subclasses slots come after the superclasses slots! 22:47:59 timor [~timor@port-92-195-64-118.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 22:48:05 Call that A. Then you define another class, B, that extends A. It reads/writes all the A-slots and then the new slots. 22:48:15 Right. Do you have a case where that is not true? 22:48:18 I'd be interested to see it. 22:48:19 yup 22:48:35 the children are always (?) last 22:48:48 Where in the spec? 22:49:09 Yes, the most specific slots come last. 22:49:12 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:49:26 And the superclass slots come in the order the superclasses are listed. 22:49:37 right, but I have a container-box that is a superclass 22:49:38 But you may be right: this may be busted. 22:49:38 -!- Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:50:01 Now that I think about it. Diamond inheritance may not do the right thing. (Though I don't know, off hand, what the right thing would be.) 22:50:05 well, it works as it does, which is fine, but isn't compatible with the way the spec is written :) 22:50:29 Can you give me that spec URL again and tell me parts are problematic. 22:50:42 http://standards.iso.org/ittf/PubliclyAvailableStandards/c041828_ISO_IEC_14496-12_2005(E).zip 22:50:57 Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:51:09 my two problems are: 1) figuring out how many bytes into the object we are and 2) specifying the order of the inherited slots 22:51:23 2 is probably a tougher nut and may require some thinking 22:51:26 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:51:33 I'm hoping there's an easy answer for 1 and I'm just missing it 22:52:09 Probably the right answer for 1 is to build in a general, keep-track-of-how-many-bytes-we've-read facility. 22:52:21 benny [~benny@i577A320C.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 22:52:37 Any lawyer around? 22:52:50 Why this almost HyperSpec sample doesn't work in ECL? 22:53:05 (setf (logical-pathname-translations "hm") '(("home;*.*.*" "/home/user/"))) 22:53:25 Debugger received error: The pathname "home;*.*.*" does not contain the required host "hm". 22:53:30 EOF 22:53:58 slyrus: i'm still hoping you'll tell me what specific parts of the spec you are referring to that want the slots in an order other than what binary-data gives you by default. 22:54:15 gigamonkey: https://github.com/slyrus/iso-media/tree/binary-data is my project 22:54:31 gigamonkey: it's any (subclass of a) box with children 22:54:33 ASau: Don't you need a host for "home;..."? 22:54:57 rtoym_: why does it work in CLISP and SBCL? 22:55:06 Like, say, MetaBox on page 53? 22:55:15 the header info comes first, superclass, class... then the children are the very _last_ thing, which means I can't pull that slot in via inheritance from container-box 22:55:20 sure 22:55:27 ASau: do not ask language lawyers to read the Pathnames chapter. It is self-contradictory in almost every place 22:55:31 -!- joeygibson [~joeygibso@208.52.139.50] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:55:34 Or rather, a subclass of MetaBox. Can you point me to one? 22:55:53 zomgbie [~jesus@213.162.68.18] has joined #lisp 22:56:02 no, metabox itself can't just be a subclass of full-box and container-box 22:56:21 -!- iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-150-188.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:56:24 oh, well, this is fouled up because MetaBox has other_boxes 22:56:24 Where is container-box in the spec, I can't find it. 22:56:38 other box types have implicit children that aren't referenced in their specified slots 22:56:41 clhs logical-pathname-translations 22:56:54 gigamonkey: it's not, that's my class (well, container-bbox actually) 22:57:05 borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:57:23 rtoym_: .../HyperSpec/Body/f_logica.htm 22:57:31 but _most_ (not all) of the boxes function as container boxes 22:57:37 rtoym_: I'm looking at it ATM. 22:57:55 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:58:03 slyrus: well, maybe that's your problem then. ;-) 22:58:03 only I have it extracted onto local FS. 22:58:19 no, no, that's how it works. 22:58:30 I'm trying to see something in the spec that doesn't map in a natural way to the binary-data way of doing things. 22:58:30 for example, 'moov' boxes specified on page 14 have child boxes 22:58:34 -!- splittist [~John@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.1] 22:58:35 ASau: Ah. I think ecl might be wrong. The "home;*.*.*" should be parsed as (parse-namestring "home;*.*.*" "hm"). 22:59:39 Really? Does it say that on page 14. Looks to me like it just extends Box but with a different tag. 22:59:42 ASau: But why not just make the from wildcard be "hm:home;*.*.*" to begin with and be portable? 23:00:02 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:00:20 "The size is the entire size of the box, including the size and type header, fields, and all contained boxes. This facilitates general parsing of the file." 23:00:22 rtoym_: if it were easy, I wouldnt ask: 23:00:29 (setf (logical-pathname-translations "hm") '(("hm:home;*.*.*" "/home/user/"))) 23:00:29 The pathname "hm:home;*.*.*" does not contain the required host "hm". 23:00:32 note that the contained boxes are distinct from the fields 23:00:55 ASau: Or upgrade ecl. ecl 10.4.1 accepts it. 23:01:13 rtoym_: this is CVS ECL as of today. 23:01:20 That's not quoting from page 14 is it? That's from the definition of Box? 23:01:35 ASau: Hmm. Sounds like a possible regression then. 23:01:41 yeah, that's from the definition of box 23:01:49 rtoym_: alright, diffing. 23:01:53 didi` [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 23:02:00 gigamonkey: check out table 1 23:02:02 on page 11 23:02:29 and on page 10 it says "It is recommended that user Data Boxes be placed last in their container, which is either the Movie Box or Track Box." 23:03:03 ASau: 10.4.1 converts your original translation to (("hm:home;*.*.*" "/home/user/")) 23:03:13 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@213.162.68.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:03:23 The Movie Box is defined in 8.1 and doesn't explicitly mention contained boxes, but, there they are 23:03:30 So is it that anything that extends Box can have arbitrary child boxes? 23:03:35 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633637.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:03:35 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:03:43 almost 23:03:46 And they always come last? 23:04:00 things like mdat have explicit fields that go to the end of the box 23:04:03 so they can't have children 23:04:03 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:04:17 Anyway, I think in that case I would define a binary-type of child-boxes and include a slot of that type in those boxes that need it. 23:04:39 It's hardly more text than mentioning a superclass that exists only to give you that field. 23:05:26 yes, except that you can't (just) define methods on container-box and have the right thing happen 23:06:01 and then the problem is that I need to figure out the length of the space set aside for the child boxes, which is trivial in the simple container boxes, but harder when the boxes have more fields 23:06:29 this where I need to know "how far into the box are we when we start seeing children"? 23:06:45 did you look at my box-list binary type? 23:06:55 zomgbie [~jesus@213.162.68.92] has joined #lisp 23:08:05 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441862.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 23:08:09 Just now. Looks fine'ish. 23:08:09 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 23:09:13 What methods do you want to define on container-box? 23:10:19 I don't know if this helps, but it looks like you can mention superclasses that aren't binary-classes and they will get added to the superclass list but won't add any slots. 23:11:11 Which may be a semi-kludgy way to specify that a bunch of binary-classes have a similar supertype even though they don't actually inherit any slots from that type. 23:12:36 HET2 [~diman@host81-149-242-213.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has joined #lisp 23:12:43 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050068188.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:13:11 -!- Cooler_ [~sabayonus@189-68-204-222.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:13:17 Assuming you're actually reading these things from files, you can presumably use FILE-POSITION to find out where you are at various points. 23:13:31 -!- HET2 [~diman@host81-149-242-213.in-addr.btopenworld.com] has quit [Client Quit] 23:14:16 drdo` [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 23:14:47 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 23:15:31 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:16:18 hmm... but file-position gives me a global position. I don't really want to have to keep track of where each box starts and then go from that. 23:16:20 I suppose I could. 23:16:33 And, OK, that's good to know about the superclasses that aren't binary-classes 23:17:14 I don't think there's any way I can get a handle to the current object in, say, my :limit forms? 23:17:17 (not sure what you call those) 23:17:25 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@213.162.68.92] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:17:52 skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #lisp 23:21:20 slyrus: you know about CURRENT-BINARY-OBJECT, IMMEDIATE-PARENT, and PARENT-OF-TYPE? 23:21:32 no, of course not. thanks! 23:21:52 of course not!? Read the chapter on this stuff man! ;- 23:21:54 ;-) 23:22:09 I did write it down, you know. 23:22:46 -!- schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:22:51 schmx [~marcus@c83-254-196-92.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 23:22:51 -!- schmx [~marcus@c83-254-196-92.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Changing host] 23:22:51 schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 23:22:55 yeah, yeah, yeah :) 23:23:01 thanks, that's what I was missing, I think. 23:23:41 -!- superflit [~superflit@140.226.49.160] has quit [Quit: superflit] 23:24:16 Like I said, the position thing should perhaps be baked in. Presumably the simple binary-types know how big they are; perhaps we can automate keeping track of how much has been read with just a small added burden when you define a binary type. 23:24:38 entropi [~entrosca@ip98-167-231-101.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:24:50 -!- entropi [~entrosca@ip98-167-231-101.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:28:33 yeah, that would be nice 23:28:53 -!- s1ugg0 [~user@net-216-37-86-189.in-addr.worldspice.net] has quit [Quit: gtgh] 23:29:04 See http://paste.lisp.org/display/117712 for a very sketchy sketch. 23:31:00 Vivitron [ad4c080a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.76.8.10] has joined #lisp 23:31:07 I guess that would mean that when you define a binary-type with an explicit :reader and :writer you would need to return the number of octets read. But that is often easy. 23:34:47 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:36:15 pinterface [~pinterfac@173-20-55-85.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 23:39:08 -!- mheld [~mheld@c-75-69-89-109.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 23:40:14 -!- plage [~user@113.161.65.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:40:19 ok, I'll take a look at that tonight, hopefully 23:40:38 if it's there, you probably mention it in the chapters, but... is there a built-in array type? 23:40:51 (like an array of, say, three u4's?) 23:43:40 craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 23:47:51 -!- borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has left #lisp 23:53:23 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:54:45 -!- Frakk [~Frakk@host28-49-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Frakk] 23:55:18 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75478c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 23:56:15 -!- craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:56:40 -!- eugu [~eugene@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:57:57 Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has joined #lisp 23:58:08 15 23:58:22 14 23:58:25 13 23:58:30 ... 23:58:41 oh shit 23:58:43 hey homie 23:58:50 hullo