00:03:53 rtoym: i am sorry, i don't have access to the machine where that runs now. I will look at it on monday. 00:06:07 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d010500.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: good night] 00:06:30 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:07:59 s1ugg0 [~chrish@c-75-64-77-87.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:10:43 -!- pierrep [~ppasteau@bas11-montrealak-1177755963.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:10:48 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:10:48 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.191.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:12:41 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:13:17 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw305048.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:15:15 -!- boysetsfrog [~nathan@123-243-214-176.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:15:38 I think I'm missing something *really* basic 00:16:01 Trying to use Xach's "quick-start" to quickbuild a project 00:16:21 It created all the project files just fine 00:16:35 Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has joined #lisp 00:17:28 When I tried to quickload it, I wound up with an error that a package (mcclim) I'm trying to use isn't defined 00:18:23 I can (require 'mcclim) in slime without any problems 00:19:01 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:20:14 It seems like there has to be something really obvious that I'm just totally missing 00:20:39 Can anyone think of anything that might be the culprit? 00:20:48 -!- SsvRrwQ [~user@S0106001c1122940c.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:21:17 jimrthy: paste the .asd file to http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp 00:24:21 pierrep [~pierrep@bas1-montreal43-2925256071.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 00:24:45 Done, but it just loads a blank page 00:25:39 http://paste.lisp.org/display/117594 00:25:57 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@host86-133-248-172.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:26:15 There it is. Thank you. 00:26:36 Wait, isn't there a bug with Mcclim right now? 00:27:02 I imagine there are *tons* of bugs with Mcclim 00:27:18 I thought I just read something about the latest SBCL having an issue with Mcclim. 00:27:29 I'm using CCL 00:27:59 If you do (ql:quickload "mcclim"), that works? 00:28:07 But the whole "no such package" thing makes me think I'm doing something really stupid 00:28:19 Yeah, basic quickload works fine 00:28:46 Sorry, I have no idea and I don't use mcclim, but you might wanna try asking on #quicklisp 00:29:09 Cool, thanks 00:33:01 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@114.93.130.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:33:02 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.54.248] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:34:24 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:36:26 metaliving [~victorere@129.133.142.142] has joined #lisp 00:36:47 boysetsfrog [~nathan@123-243-214-176.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:37:44 -!- Gmind [~Welcome@113.190.163.233] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:40:02 onteria [~onteria@rrcs-74-62-144-90.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:40:20 -!- onteria [~onteria@rrcs-74-62-144-90.west.biz.rr.com] has left #lisp 00:43:17 If I want to use a global variable in a macro, do i need to (defparameter) it in an (eval-when) form? 00:50:17 -!- churib [~tg@dslc-082-082-099-065.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:52:30 -!- zhulikas [zhulikas@3e6b7b31.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:54:41 -!- xan_ [~xan@26.Red-88-24-228.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:55:58 necroforest: sounds like horrible stuff you're doing :) 00:59:09 haha 00:59:10 probably 00:59:28 i'm making a factory kind of thing here... 00:59:49 basically, i have a macro that defines how to build a certain object 01:00:12 and i want it to push the generated "constructor" into a table 01:00:23 then have another function that will construct that object 01:00:33 i'm probably not explaining myself very well.. 01:01:19 Sounds like you want functions. 01:01:22 it's quite possible that i'm duplicating something that CLOS does 01:01:45 yeah, now that i look at it i don't think it needs to be a macro 01:01:48 Perhaps. I'm not sure I understood what you want to do. 01:02:34 Do you just want DEFCLASS and MAKE-INSTANCE ? 01:02:51 well, i have a class 01:03:42 ok, so... if i had a car class, it would have a "weight" slot 01:04:01 *schme* nods. 01:04:04 different models of cars have different weights 01:04:21 Yup. 01:04:21 so if i want to make a civic, i want to call something like (make-car 'civic) 01:04:30 and it would know that a civic weighs 2000 pounds 01:04:57 but i don't really want to make subclasses for every type of car, since they're all identical except for a few parameters 01:05:05 -!- gonzojive [~red@adsl-75-6-248-33.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 01:05:12 so my solution was to have something like: (defcar civic :weight 2000) 01:05:14 ok. 01:05:28 which would push a lambda into a table that does (make-instance car :weight 2000) 01:05:32 Phoodus [~foo@174-22-203-191.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:05:37 then (make-car) would call that lambda 01:06:10 (defclass car () ((weight :init-form 2000))) ? 01:06:28 right, but a camry would have a different weight 01:06:50 well sure. you would have to fix that. 01:06:51 so i could just do (defcar camry :weight 2350) (make-car 'camry) 01:06:53 I'd plug in some defaults in the class. 01:07:15 yeah, but the point is the calling code just knows what kind of car it wants 01:07:16 then have like (defun make-car (car-type) ;; HUGE COND STATEMENT ) 01:07:37 that's what i'm trying to avoid, as well as allow easy adding of new car types 01:07:43 I guess you could use CASE. 01:07:50 ok. 01:07:54 well dump it all in a hash table then. 01:08:01 that's my current solution :) 01:08:08 with the ADD-CAR etc. 01:08:28 sounds great ;) 01:08:42 Are you sure you need these data structures to be CLOS objects at all? 01:09:51 well, some of the car types could require additional data or to have methods overridden, in which case they would actually be subclassed 01:09:58 which is why i'm turning to CLOS 01:11:37 (make-instance 'car :type 'camry) ;) 01:11:54 -!- pepone [~pepone@135.246.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:12:23 well I guess that would explode in a number of ways. 01:13:40 Why don't you want to make subclasses for each one? 01:14:39 that's a good q. 01:16:13 that might be the best way of doing it 01:16:56 most of the types would share all the same methods with just some of the attributes varying 01:17:28 necroforest: defcar can be a macro that just expands into (defclass _ (car) ((weight :initform _) ...)) 01:17:36 yeah, that's what i'm thinking about now 01:18:21 -!- Vivitron [ad4c080a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.76.8.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:18:53 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.222.193] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 01:19:36 (: 01:20:20 *necroforest* came full circle 01:22:27 speaking of macros, anyone else here use Dough Hoyte's (defmacro!)? 01:23:04 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-147-222.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:24:22 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.15.242] has joined #lisp 01:24:28 -!- timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-116-48.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:24:36 necroforest: ride a car before making it 01:28:35 You shouldn't try to mutate a list defined like '(a b c), but it's ok if you use a backquote like `(a b c)? Is that correct? 01:29:47 austinh, they are the same thing 01:30:03 backquote is just extra syntax that allows splicing 01:30:48 necroforest: Are you sure about that? That doesn't seem to agree with the hyperspec. 01:31:28 although, I'm not sure I'm understanding it correctly 01:32:04 i could be wrong 01:33:35 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:33:39 this is embarrassing, I can't find hyperspec for backquote 01:33:44 Or, should I be using ",."? 01:33:53 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:34:08 mitre: Look in the master index under non-alphabetic. 01:34:24 ok! 01:36:53 dfkjjkfd_ [~paulh@32-15-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #lisp 01:37:15 -!- replete [~pete@cpe-74-64-94-88.hvc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:37:48 yeah 01:38:26 it seems `(a b c) is interpreted as (append (list 'a) (list 'b) (list 'c)) 01:38:51 or maybe (list 'a 'b 'c) 01:39:04 right 01:39:12 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@32-15-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:39:12 -!- dfkjjkfd_ [~paulh@32-15-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 01:39:20 isn't that equivalent to '(a b c)? 01:39:25 yes. 01:39:39 why so sure? 01:39:41 Are you sure? 01:40:13 I think it's safe to mutate (list 'a 'b 'c) but not '(a b c). 01:40:15 moah [~gnu@dslb-084-061-245-213.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 01:40:26 why isn't it safe? 01:40:33 austinh: That's correct. 01:40:49 behavior is undefined, from quote hs 01:40:50 necroforest: mutating literal lists could blow shit up. 01:41:06 oh, ok 01:41:15 some implementations are ok with it 01:41:25 yeah SBCL is, i just tried it 01:41:34 SBCL is not 01:41:47 Just because your test worked, doesn't mean it's ok. 01:42:05 ä 01:42:24 You'll be better off rebooting your machine now 01:42:33 right.. 01:42:58 it's the literal mutator virus 01:43:26 ffffuuu?? 01:45:36 Literal lists can be expected to share substructure. 01:46:02 So you may be mutating more than you expect, which may take a long time to come back and bite you. 01:46:13 There is copy-list. 01:46:49 Why not give an example? (defun foo () (let ((list '(a b c))) list) 01:46:58 (setf (car (foo)) 'z) 01:47:07 (foo) now returns '(z b c) 01:47:19 ok, that makes sense 01:47:54 But that's a great source of bugs if you expected foo to always return '(a b c) 01:47:56 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-168-82.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:48:01 replete [~pete@cpe-74-64-94-88.hvc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:49:32 Ok, so using backquote in that example, instead of quote doesn't help anything. 01:49:55 (list 'a 'b 'c) is the way to go in the example. 01:50:08 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.99.83] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:52:50 gonzojive [~red@adsl-75-6-248-33.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:54:55 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.103.130] has joined #lisp 01:54:58 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483A3EB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:57:03 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@212-183-42-232.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:57:12 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-168-82.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:58:53 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.113.184.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:59:48 Aren't backquotes handled at read or compile time, not runtime? Then backquote won't "fix" the example. 02:03:51 prxq: The problem was printing. I've fixed this and the 0x0, 3x0 and 0x3 matrices are printed basically as # with no elements printed because there are none. 02:05:39 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 02:06:09 Caffeine [~satanama@216.252.92.19] has joined #lisp 02:06:51 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Client Quit] 02:07:11 -!- didi` is now known as didi 02:07:48 prxq: Patch and fix applied. 02:09:15 -!- Genosh [~Genosh@153.Red-88-24-212.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:16:56 pnq [~nick@ACA30DC9.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 02:17:50 mahmul [~mrw@user-0can1en.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 02:26:33 -!- LinGmnZ [~LinGmnZ@ppp-61-90-8-24.revip.asianet.co.th] has quit [] 02:27:49 -!- schoppenhauer1 [~christoph@p5B0BE2F8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:28:52 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:31:03 mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:31:58 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-213-220-225-182.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:36:04 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.103.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:37:17 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.99.114] has joined #lisp 02:37:18 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:40:18 prxq: As a user of matlisp, is there anything you wish matlisp had? Besides zero-based matrices. 02:42:05 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:42:20 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.32] has joined #lisp 02:43:14 gfym [~gfym@c-98-207-21-18.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:43:27 I used to think that lisp code was hard to read 02:43:45 now you are stronger 02:43:49 I realized it is actually just 'challenging' to read 02:44:36 -!- gonzojive [~red@adsl-75-6-248-33.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:44:38 challenging in the right ways 02:45:14 challenging like an advanced math book 02:45:34 challenging like enlightening :) 02:46:19 like good poetry :) 02:50:39 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 03:01:27 i hate c-style languages now 03:01:43 i really deeply truly hate them 03:01:50 It's better not to hate. 03:01:58 i know 03:01:59 don't be a hater 03:02:10 can't help it on this one :( 03:02:11 there's something to love in all languages. 03:02:23 but don't program in C++ if you can help it 03:02:33 that's the problem 03:02:38 i have to use C++ and C# all day 03:03:12 none of the other programmers even understand lisp and think C# is the ultimate language... 03:03:37 nothing is better than C# to them 03:03:46 lisp is just a bunch of 'academic nonsense' 03:04:03 so it's hard not to hate 03:05:02 -!- rfg [~rfg@client-80-5-172-43.glw-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has quit [Quit: rfg] 03:05:43 rfg [~rfg@client-80-5-172-43.glw-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has joined #lisp 03:08:40 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@c-98-234-185-107.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:09:13 perhaps what you really hate is that you're in the wrong place 03:09:41 not sure where else to go 03:09:48 never see any postings for lisp programmers 03:09:50 -!- rfg [~rfg@client-80-5-172-43.glw-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:09:54 the world's a big place 03:10:15 hmm 03:10:24 http://lispjobs.wordpress.com/ posts them when they come up 03:10:34 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.99.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:11:48 ouch, quite sparse 03:12:02 start your own company, then 03:12:16 I've no capital 03:12:33 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.103.246] has joined #lisp 03:12:36 if i've learned anything about starting a company 03:12:42 it's that you should have capital 03:12:52 apply for ycombinator 03:13:13 To spend on what? Emacs and SBCL and SLIME are free. 03:13:27 computers are cheap 03:13:53 the common wisdom in the software business is that having too much money can kill your company dead 03:13:59 at least in the beginning 03:14:02 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:14:02 The C++ job must pay ok. Start saving. Do lisp in your spare time. 03:14:14 having no money is a killer 03:14:33 you've got to have some 03:14:36 well, you'll always have reasons for not doing something 03:14:47 dlowe, I'm talking from experience 03:15:00 the only decision is whether you're going to let that stop you 03:15:07 ha 03:15:08 the gold standard 03:15:26 it was an innocent suggestion, in any case 03:15:32 please pass the fairy dust 03:16:22 http://www.bitmuse.com/tmp/bitterness2.jpg 03:16:30 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-167-93.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:16:50 how many successful businesses have you started? 03:16:55 three. 03:16:59 names? 03:17:02 next smartass question? 03:17:09 what are their names? 03:17:16 forget it. I'm through with you. 03:17:18 gfym: If you aren't going to help yourself, then please stop whining about it. What good is that? 03:18:29 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A7587.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:18:50 hey, I'll listen if you have some credibility 03:18:54 gonzojive [~red@adsl-75-6-248-33.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:19:19 Nobody is interested in trying to convince you of anything. 03:19:22 so what are the names of the companies? 03:22:20 ok, so I'm a failed entrepreneur 03:22:49 is it not reasonable for me to ask for the ability to verify advice given that goes against my experience? 03:23:26 or should I just drop all my life experience down a well and listen to what some anonmous internet guy says who won't even verify his credentials? 03:23:36 be reasonable 03:25:15 fuck you guys 03:25:18 -!- gfym [~gfym@c-98-207-21-18.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- s0 d4Mn l33t |t'z 5c4rY!] 03:26:07 that went well 03:26:25 amazing 03:27:44 -!- kmwallio [~kmwallio@host113-70.brownlie.fit.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:28:07 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:28:43 didi [~user@scorpion.tdkom.psi.br] has joined #lisp 03:30:41 Good morning everyone! 03:31:18 -!- LiamH [~nobody@pool-72-75-117-4.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:31:48 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 03:33:35 Good morning, beach :D 03:34:05 Nice to see a friendly face 03:34:06 -!- mahmul [~mrw@user-0can1en.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 03:34:18 Heh! 03:34:41 There are some strange cases in #lisp these days. Or perhaps that has always been the case. 03:35:07 the fringe attracts personality extremes :) 03:37:05 I'd be curious to see the frequency of kicks over the years. 03:38:58 krzysz00 [~user@pool-71-252-233-89.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:39:28 First working code of clos-diff is available at https://github.com/krzysz00/clos-diff 03:41:10 ping 03:41:37 Yes, there are people here. 03:46:21 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.103.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:47:13 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:47:49 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.103.246] has joined #lisp 03:50:06 krzysz00: hm, neat (: 03:50:36 hi antifuchs 03:50:39 hi dto 03:50:55 how's it going? 03:51:50 i turned off my IRC and browser for awhile to focus on emacs and coding. got many docstrings written for this blocks-programming-ui thing 03:52:17 when my little break is over i'm going to put the headphones on and finish implementing the drag and drop block connecting stuff. 03:52:34 cool (: 03:55:18 notrael [8081@purpletree.org] has joined #lisp 03:55:48 -!- krzysz00 [~user@pool-71-252-233-89.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:56:24 -!- gonzojive [~red@adsl-75-6-248-33.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:57:26 antifuchs: 345 views in 24 hours, for the tablet video :) 03:58:05 jlf [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has joined #lisp 04:01:50 hmm, Youtube Insight says people tend to leave the video when i rotate the tablet 04:02:09 does anyone know the reason that the current released binary version of sbcl for osx is back at 1.0.29? i'm wondering if it's just a matter of compiling from source or if something broke for osx shortly after that release. 04:02:42 hah 04:03:03 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:03:19 dto: the preview image shows the text sideways... could have something to do with it 04:03:23 maybe they're curious why, then leave (: 04:03:36 but i turn it right away 04:03:37 oh. 04:03:47 jlf: it's usually because nobody uploaded a new binary (: 04:04:06 i cant wait for the insight data on my dto game design retrospective, to see what parts people liked 04:04:14 or it's something else... perhaps they get bored (: 04:04:15 ok i'll see if it'll build 04:04:29 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.103.246] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:04:37 jlf: I'm pretty sure it will 04:04:42 antifuchs: actually they start leaving before i rotate the tablet. it's when i start blabbing about code reviews. 04:04:55 jlf: but beware: the newest sbcl release has a compiler bug that prevents clx from building 04:05:02 ah 04:05:09 dto: well then: more action, less blabbing! 04:05:16 :) 04:05:18 perhaps you should have an explosion gesture (: 04:05:32 what command? 04:05:37 no idea! (: 04:05:48 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 04:06:01 but it should have the tablet walking away slowly from the explosion gesture, putting on sunglasses 04:06:07 they will lap it up 04:06:13 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@221.220.249.209] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:06:15 hehe 04:06:21 i wonder if i should try to write a lisp book someday 04:06:34 sounds good to me! (: 04:07:49 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.101.136] has joined #lisp 04:10:09 -!- pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:ddfc] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:14:28 android for game development...... "Whether you work in Java or in C/C++, development is a breeze." 04:14:53 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-157-96.w92-134.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #lisp 04:15:48 powerje [~powerj@adsl-75-49-4-247.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:18:13 gonzojive [~red@adsl-75-6-248-33.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:18:43 -!- mk2 [~user@159.92.65.56] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:18:56 sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has joined #lisp 04:23:31 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:25:17 pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:ddfc] has joined #lisp 04:32:28 Vivitroon [ad4c080a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.76.8.10] has joined #lisp 04:36:46 kenjin_ [~kenjin@218.235.10.192] has joined #lisp 04:36:49 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.101.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:38:59 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.98.247] has joined #lisp 04:44:34 -!- az [~az@p4FE4F422.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:45:06 -!- powerje [~powerj@adsl-75-49-4-247.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: powerje] 04:45:45 -!- mheld [~mheld@c-24-91-23-221.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 04:56:01 -!- zophy [~sy@host-27-92-2-96.midco.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:59:17 -!- sixpoint8 [~jaykub@ip68-12-204-131.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 05:06:34 -!- s1gma_ [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Quit:] 05:09:09 az [~az@p5796CE36.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:12:56 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-51-151.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 05:13:35 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-16-251.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:32:04 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 05:34:44 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:35:30 mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:35:52 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 05:36:09 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Client Quit] 05:36:41 -!- annihilator [~rff@ip72-207-243-174.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:46:28 -!- chemuduguntar [~ravi@118-92-129-45.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:47:55 -!- jlf [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:48:57 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@c-98-234-185-107.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: hmm] 05:50:31 -!- gonzojive [~red@adsl-75-6-248-33.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 05:55:49 sabalaba [~sabalaba@221.220.249.209] has joined #lisp 06:04:16 ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-32-16-123.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 06:04:24 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-156.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:06:02 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw305048.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:07:23 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-156.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 06:08:42 Madsy [~madman@ti0207a340-0958.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 06:08:42 -!- Madsy [~madman@ti0207a340-0958.bb.online.no] has quit [Changing host] 06:08:42 Madsy [~madman@fu/coder/madsy] has joined #lisp 06:10:05 errewq [~bryce@173-130-79-245.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 06:20:04 -!- pierrep [~pierrep@bas1-montreal43-2925256071.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:21:40 psilord [~psilord@76.204.103.81] has joined #lisp 06:22:19 -!- psilord [~psilord@76.204.103.81] has left #lisp 06:24:12 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: night x 2] 06:33:14 pierrep [~pierrep@bas1-montreal43-2925384990.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 06:41:12 -!- errewq [~bryce@173-130-79-245.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 06:43:32 -!- notrael [8081@purpletree.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:57:49 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-24-4-147-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 07:03:27 argiopeweb_ [~elliot@adsl-65-165-22.dab.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 07:04:22 -!- argiopeweb_ [~elliot@adsl-65-165-22.dab.bellsouth.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:04:25 -!- metaliving [~victorere@129.133.142.142] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:06:42 -!- Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:10:47 How can i make an integer from bytes? 07:10:56 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA30DC9.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: be vigilant] 07:20:17 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 07:22:38 clhs ldb 07:22:39 tic [~tic@c83-249-196-184.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 07:23:20 mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 07:23:20 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 07:23:20 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:26:53 -!- tic [~tic@c83-249-196-184.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Client Quit] 07:29:01 tic [~tic@c83-249-196-184.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 07:29:46 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:30:36 Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 07:34:38 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:40:56 hohoho [~hohoho@bmdj5218.bmobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 07:42:19 gonzojive [~red@adsl-75-6-248-33.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:44:00 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@221.220.249.209] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:51:55 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@bmdj5218.bmobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:56:49 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 08:00:45 sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has joined #lisp 08:02:12 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 08:02:54 sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has joined #lisp 08:03:24 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:03:44 -!- kenjin_ [~kenjin@218.235.10.192] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:04:49 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-75-154.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 08:11:05 abhinav [~abhinav@122.166.163.126] has joined #lisp 08:12:37 -!- incandenza [~quassel@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:13:24 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.91.2] 08:13:46 incandenza [~quassel@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 08:14:15 freddie111 [~user@150.140.225.221] has joined #lisp 08:14:40 -!- gonzojive [~red@adsl-75-6-248-33.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 08:18:50 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:21:09 kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-227-131.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:24:25 -!- abhinav [~abhinav@122.166.163.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:25:14 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:27:11 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-155-117.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 08:30:05 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-168-82.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:31:29 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-168-169.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:57:06 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-118-58.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:57:13 -!- mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 09:00:19 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-1-209.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:00:19 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 09:06:47 why does cmucl fail everytime to compile with the error "XT" not a package in src/tools/clmcom.lisp ? 09:07:07 i have the motif libs installed, and despite... 09:08:39 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:08:50 xan_ [~xan@26.Red-88-24-228.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:12:29 Frakk [~Frakk@host162-250-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 09:18:39 acid_rain [~jbvg@77.42.210.170] has joined #lisp 09:18:48 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:20:33 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:23:24 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:24:10 DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has joined #lisp 09:25:18 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 09:35:35 annihilator [~rff@ip72-207-243-174.br.br.cox.net] has joined #lisp 09:37:06 edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 09:38:40 sabalaba [~sabalaba@221.220.249.209] has joined #lisp 09:39:44 -!- Madsy [~madman@fu/coder/madsy] has quit [] 09:40:22 eugu [~eugene@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 09:44:11 Gmind [~Welcome@113.190.163.233] has joined #lisp 09:47:31 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 09:49:38 ch077179 [~urs@adsl-89-217-165-58.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 09:50:08 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.15.242] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:51:44 -!- annihilator [~rff@ip72-207-243-174.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:53:20 Lisp noob here. How would I setf the result of a do* block to something? I tried putting it in a let binding, but my grasp of references vs. values in lisp is weak. 09:56:41 DarthShrine: You ususally make DO* return a value 09:57:10 tcr: Yeah, I have (do* ((foo bar)) (condition return)) 09:57:10 DarthShrine: Also if your understanding is weak, what text are you using to learn Lisp from? 09:57:18 longshot_ [~longshot@180.184.11.66] has joined #lisp 09:57:41 tcr: I read through Practical Common Lisp and I've been looking at some of the HyperSpec 09:58:39 Very good. So what part do you not understand? 10:00:16 In Lisp, calling a function is done by call-by-value, but: 10:00:18 -!- longshot_ [~longshot@180.184.11.66] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:00:44 longshot_ [~longshot@216.131.74.24] has joined #lisp 10:00:49 You usually hold a pointer to an object; the exception are characters, numbers and the empty list 10:00:51 -!- longshot [~longshot@216.131.74.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:00:51 -!- longshot_ is now known as longshot 10:01:11 so if you pass a CLOS object or a structure to a function, you actually pass a pointer to it 10:01:29 I've been trying to make a binary tree with nested lists 10:01:35 meaning that the function can destructively modify that object or structure (e.g. setting a slot to a different value) 10:01:42 I assume lists are passed as references. 10:02:19 Yeah, but notice that there are no real lists in Lisp just chained conses 10:02:38 so what you actually pass is either the special thing called NIL, or a pointer to ONE cons cell 10:03:09 so what you -could- do is to set the CDR of that cons cell to point to a different thing 10:03:35 you cannot modify NIL (that's why even for the trivial case, PUSH cannot be a function) 10:03:58 Does that make some sense? 10:04:43 -!- adx [~adx@pool-173-66-68-7.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:05:06 Yeah, I think so. 10:05:22 I need to head off, but I'll be back soonish, sorry for dropping out like this. 10:05:24 DarthShrine: The thing is, that you don't usually modify lists in functions (if, mostly as an optimization thing) 10:05:25 -!- DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has quit [Quit: DarthShrine] 10:05:41 you make the function return a new list (which might share some of its part with the original list) 10:05:51 that's what e.g. REMOVE does 10:07:44 masonium [~user@col-69-141.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #lisp 10:09:20 *leo2007* is learning 10:11:23 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 10:11:28 tcr: that's what delete does, remove returns a freshly consed list 10:12:02 drdo: it does? 10:12:26 yes, remove is not destructive 10:12:30 delete is 10:12:50 drdo: but being not destructive doesn't mean returning a fresh list 10:13:02 from clhs remove: "The result of remove may share with sequence" 10:13:24 that's exactly what tcr said 10:13:37 yes, nevermind what i said 10:13:48 staying up all night doesn't work well 10:14:00 -!- xan_ [~xan@26.Red-88-24-228.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:20:52 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 10:21:23 is there a way to add/insert a new pair to a associative list and it just adds the entry to the assoc list passed in? 10:21:30 as opposed to creating a new one? 10:22:22 I think "acons" gives me a new one every time yeah? 10:23:07 only the new entry is new, everything else is old 10:23:32 ok so then I tried the following to make a simple ADT for an association list 10:23:41 Am setting up a "environment" 10:23:50 (defun make-env () 10:23:50 (defparameter *E* '())) 10:24:01 edlinde: Do you want to modify it if the key already existed and add otherwise? 10:24:02 CL-USER> (make-env) 10:24:02 *E* 10:24:03 CL-USER> *E* 10:24:03 NIL 10:24:30 CL-USER> (acons 'y 2 *E*) 10:24:31 ((Y . 2)) 10:24:31 CL-USER> *E* 10:24:31 NIL 10:24:52 drdo: I think I can simply add.. but yeah would be better I suppose if it modified 10:25:16 I think assoc will stop at the very first occurence... and it seems like acons is adding new items at the head of the list... 10:25:22 so that should work for me 10:25:27 well yes 10:25:35 ok cool 10:25:57 (acons 'foo 'bar alist) = (cons (cons 'foo 'bar) alist) 10:25:59 I need to understand how acons works so then I can keep inserting new entries into my *E* env 10:26:41 should I then trap the output in a let or something and update my *E* ? 10:26:45 xan_ [~xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 10:27:05 e-user [~e-user@port-87-234-24-237.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 10:27:08 edlinde: You could just use an hash tabl 10:27:10 *table 10:27:42 DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has joined #lisp 10:27:46 yeah true 10:28:03 -!- e-user [~e-user@port-87-234-24-237.static.qsc.de] has quit [Client Quit] 10:28:18 an environment could just be a cons of a hash-table and the parent env 10:28:23 but its not possible to do something like that with a assoc list? 10:28:58 sure is, hash-tables, alists and plists are just different implementations for the same concept 10:29:09 ok 10:29:27 what's the problem that you're having? 10:29:51 drdo: I am just thinking that I start off my "make-env" which sets an empty list to var *E* 10:30:10 then... I want to keep adding new key,value pairs to *E* 10:30:22 if I used acons.. I get back a new list 10:30:31 do I then keep assigning that to *E*? 10:30:36 thats my dilemna 10:30:38 push ? 10:30:53 so you saying I shouldn't use acons huh? 10:30:56 (push (cons foo bar) *e*) 10:31:07 hmm 10:31:07 edlinde: I don't know what you're trying to do 10:31:43 drdo: I am making some slight alterations to some sample code given to us for a lisp interpretor 10:31:53 or some "lisp like subset" really 10:32:10 ok, so you mean environment in the sense of a lisp interpreter 10:32:13 oskar_ [~oskar@nl107-188-77.student.uu.se] has joined #lisp 10:32:16 true 10:32:18 elinde: Is the problem that you want other references to the old list to now refer to the new list? 10:32:34 yep 10:32:50 if I use a push like drdo suggested.. then it should be fine I think 10:33:07 I don't understand why you would want to do that 10:33:08 edlinde: Well, only if you haven't rebound *e*. 10:33:32 An environment has two things, a map and a parent 10:33:42 ok 10:33:46 But say that you have another variable f, which was bound to the previous value of *E*. 10:33:54 do you want f to refer to the new list or the old list? 10:34:21 ok my plan was that if I keep pushing stuff onto my env (assoc list) it will add it to the front 10:34:27 -!- Gmind [~Welcome@113.190.163.233] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:34:36 so when I do a assoc or find it will pick up the latest occurence 10:34:36 (defun make-env (parent) (cons nil parent)) 10:34:36 Just answer my question, please. 10:34:39 which would work 10:35:02 Zhivago: I am trying to :) 10:35:08 Gmind [~Welcome@113.190.163.233] has joined #lisp 10:35:12 You can answer "yes" or "no". 10:35:36 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.32] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:35:42 Zhivago: to be honest i am not sure which one is needed... I mean do I really need multiple environments? 10:35:55 Then sit down and shut up until you do know. 10:35:55 its a very simple interpreter ... so one would suffice in my opinion 10:36:18 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 10:36:33 Zhivago: lets go with one then 10:36:50 edlinde: of course you can't have only one environment 10:37:05 Well, he can. 10:37:13 drdo: my interpreter doesn't have a "let" for example 10:37:17 Well, if he wants to have function calls he can't 10:37:21 Sure he can. 10:37:36 Welcome to the land of dynamic scoping. 10:37:37 so I am assuming that I won't need nested envs like closures etc 10:37:38 edlinde: you don't need let 10:37:46 ok 10:37:58 let is a function call 10:37:59 So add your parameters with their bindings to the environment, and off you go. 10:38:10 Zhivago: I was assuming he wanted lexical scope 10:38:28 Zhivago: i understand... but now I am interested to know what drdo is suggesting 10:38:29 let is a special operator -- not a function call 10:38:42 edlinde: There is only one way to make a new environment 10:38:53 When you apply a function 10:39:05 Zhivago: It can be implemented as one 10:39:11 drdo: ok 10:39:21 edlinde: Well, an obvious approach is to have multiple environments, and for a function call to effetively copy the environment that was established at the point that the function was defined. 10:39:32 this is quite simple 10:40:00 it sounds quite complex 10:40:01 a function call doesn't copy the env 10:40:37 edlinde: you need to do two things with an environment 10:40:45 set a variable 10:40:48 and lookup 10:40:50 right? 10:40:56 true 10:40:59 and also create it 10:41:11 (defun make-env (parent) (cons nil parent)) 10:41:16 here, this makes an empty env 10:41:47 and you need to pass it in a parent 10:42:05 ok 10:42:06 all environments have parents except for the toplevel 10:42:15 yep 10:42:18 which you can just represent as nil 10:42:32 so everytime I make a function call I should do a make-env? 10:42:35 a parent of nil meaning you have no paren 10:42:43 aha 10:42:45 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 10:42:45 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 10:42:45 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 10:42:47 edlinde: the parameters of the function 10:43:16 when you call a function, you establish a new environment that contains bindings with the arguments of the function 10:43:18 they should be placed in that function's env yeah? 10:43:46 the parent of that env is the env you captured when you defined the function 10:44:12 hm ok 10:44:26 a function has 3 things, an env, a parameter list and a body 10:44:27 right? 10:44:29 -!- oskar_ [~oskar@nl107-188-77.student.uu.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:44:34 yes 10:44:44 Of course, you can do that with a single environment as well, if you remap the parameters to unique names. 10:45:10 Zhivago: Why would you want to make this that complicated? This is so simple 10:45:33 drdo: Probably because I am honest. 10:45:39 what's the difference between (require 'slime) and (require 'slime-autoloads)? And what I shoud place in init.el? 10:45:46 drdo: Of course, a single environment is also simple. 10:45:51 npoektop: #emacs 10:46:47 npoektop: that you shouldn't use the latter if you don't know how it works 10:46:51 drdo: please 10:47:19 stassats: :D 10:55:08 MoALTz [~no@92.0.196.204] has joined #lisp 10:56:52 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@114.93.130.227] has joined #lisp 11:00:01 -!- Salamander_ is now known as Salamander 11:00:36 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-167-93.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:08:41 nalbyuites [~ashijit@59.161.104.131] has joined #lisp 11:11:02 dfox [~dfox@ip-213-220-225-182.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 11:11:38 rfg [~rfg@host81-102-106-170.not-set-yet.ntli.net] has joined #lisp 11:12:35 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:16:19 -!- masonium [~user@col-69-141.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:17:19 joe1137 [joe1137@173.216.26.183] has joined #lisp 11:17:30 -!- joe1137 [joe1137@173.216.26.183] has left #lisp 11:24:59 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B77C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:30:53 oskar_ [~oskar@nl107-188-77.student.uu.se] has joined #lisp 11:31:40 pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:32:59 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 11:35:08 Gmind1 [~Welcome@113.190.163.233] has joined #lisp 11:35:08 -!- Gmind [~Welcome@113.190.163.233] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:41:10 Guthur [~Guthur@host86-133-248-172.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:46:26 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757790.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 11:47:00 lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 11:47:47 -!- Gmind1 is now known as Gmind 11:49:24 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 11:50:29 nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 12:00:11 -!- Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Fullma] 12:00:23 Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:01:19 powerje [~powerj@adsl-75-49-4-247.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:01:57 -!- mg4001 [~mg4001@cpe-76-93-28-217.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:03:27 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 12:05:11 jeti [~user@212-166-207-120.red-acceso.airtel.net] has joined #lisp 12:09:08 craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 12:11:39 e-user [~e-user@port-87-234-24-237.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 12:17:55 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:20:29 Zyfo [~oskar@nl107-188-77.student.uu.se] has joined #lisp 12:20:30 sellout: were you planning on removing the make-instance hackery from CL-LLVM? 12:20:36 carlocci [~nes@93.37.220.245] has joined #lisp 12:20:45 schoppenhauer1 [~christoph@p5B0BDB99.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:21:29 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:24:36 -!- rfg [~rfg@host81-102-106-170.not-set-yet.ntli.net] has quit [Quit: rfg] 12:26:39 -!- s1ugg0 [~chrish@c-75-64-77-87.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: b'bye] 12:31:08 rfg [~rfg@client-86-25-216-162.glw-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has joined #lisp 12:35:14 Gmind1 [~Welcome@113.190.163.233] has joined #lisp 12:35:14 -!- Gmind [~Welcome@113.190.163.233] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:36:16 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.236.25] has joined #lisp 12:40:19 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279775309.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:40:36 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633637.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 12:40:50 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-158-218.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:45:11 printing ASCII tables isn't as easy as i thought it would be 12:48:23 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 12:49:54 -!- craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:50:31 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 12:50:48 What troubles have you ran into? 12:52:06 -!- freddie111 [~user@150.140.225.221] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:52:15 formatting headers with several subheaders 12:52:24 How do I get all standard output from my lisp image to show up in slime? 12:52:54 What's missing is the stuff printed by a foreign library. 12:53:00 (standard error, too) 12:53:06 did you look in *inferior-lisp*? 12:53:20 it's there, yes 12:53:22 can I get it in the REPL? 12:53:29 i don't know 12:53:37 you can try using i/o redirection 12:53:44 how? 12:54:00 swank:*globally-redirect-io* 12:54:23 it should be set before creating the REPL 12:54:31 or maybe even earlier 12:54:53 basically, set it in ~/.swank.lisp and restart slime 12:55:54 already there, looks like 12:55:58 oh well. 12:56:49 (loop for n from 0 to 127 do (format t "~A ~S~%" n (code-char n))) 12:56:57 an ascii table! 12:57:06 right, that's why i said "i don't know", because i'm not sure it would affect foreign code 12:57:17 drdo: very funny 12:58:18 incandenza_ [~quassel@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:04:40 -!- incandenza_ [~quassel@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:08:34 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:18:08 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 13:18:23 urandom__ [~user@p548A6549.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:20:06 rff [~rff@ip72-207-243-174.br.br.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:20:40 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-107-21.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:20:49 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-51-151.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:23:09 -!- Gmind1 [~Welcome@113.190.163.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:26:31 -!- jeti [~user@212-166-207-120.red-acceso.airtel.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:26:39 jeti [~user@212-166-207-120.red-acceso.airtel.net] has joined #lisp 13:32:25 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.0.196.204] has quit [Quit: i'm sorry] 13:35:24 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:35:33 -!- jeti [~user@212-166-207-120.red-acceso.airtel.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:39:15 -!- Caffeine [~satanama@216.252.92.19] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:39:43 Gmind [~Welcome@113.190.163.233] has joined #lisp 13:39:51 Caffeine [~satanama@216.252.92.19] has joined #lisp 13:39:53 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 13:40:00 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-105-122.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:40:53 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-107-21.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:44:56 starseeker [~starseeke@BZ.BZFLAG.BZ] has joined #lisp 13:45:33 gigamonkey: listened to your ILC standards talk - very nice! 13:46:06 *starseeker* is taking a look at quicklisp now 13:46:53 xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@114.93.130.227] has joined #lisp 13:47:22 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 13:47:35 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@114.93.130.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:50:47 nmg [~nick@dsl78-143-206-229.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:51:38 amb [~a_bakic@19.29.195-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 13:51:44 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.98.247] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:52:06 -!- amb [~a_bakic@19.29.195-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:53:49 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.107.247] has joined #lisp 13:54:45 amb [~a_bakic@19.29.195-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 13:54:46 Is there a function to read byte sequences? 13:55:01 -!- aSean [~aSean@134-208-39-197.ndhu.edu.tw] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:55:06 clhs read-sequence 13:55:25 Yes, i'm looking at that right now 13:55:53 -!- Zyfo [~oskar@nl107-188-77.student.uu.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:56:52 If i use on an array with element-type (unsigned-byte 8) it does the right thing? 13:57:41 if the stream is of '(unsigned-byte 8) 13:58:16 alright, that's what i want then, thanks 13:58:21 -!- oskar_ [~oskar@nl107-188-77.student.uu.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:59:16 -!- amb [~a_bakic@19.29.195-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:59:36 -!- DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has quit [Quit: DarthShrine] 13:59:42 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.107.247] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:00:42 Lochy [~lochy@59.96.160.118] has joined #lisp 14:02:01 amb [~a_bakic@19.29.195-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 14:04:36 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 14:05:11 -!- ASau [~user@95-26-92-70.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: reboot] 14:05:17 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 14:07:29 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 14:07:50 Hoornet [~Hoornet@93.103.24.156] has joined #lisp 14:12:13 _icecube_ [~icecube@p549C5A98.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:12:16 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 14:12:23 -!- acid_rain [~jbvg@77.42.210.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:13:23 -!- emma is now known as em 14:13:29 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.96.160.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:14:16 -!- amb [~a_bakic@19.29.195-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Quit: amb] 14:14:30 icecube_ [~icecube@p549C5A98.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:14:38 -!- icecube_ [~icecube@p549C5A98.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:14:42 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.108.235] has joined #lisp 14:15:14 oskar_ [~oskar@nl107-188-77.student.uu.se] has joined #lisp 14:15:15 Zyfo [~oskar@nl107-188-77.student.uu.se] has joined #lisp 14:15:39 aack [~user@a83-163-241-74.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 14:16:09 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757790.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:18:37 amb [~a_bakic@19.29.195-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 14:19:41 How do i make a fixnum? 14:19:48 1 14:20:33 yeah well, i can just make a 0 and then set the bytes 14:21:30 -!- Gmind [~Welcome@113.190.163.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:25:45 francogrex [~user@109.130.71.157] has joined #lisp 14:27:40 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 14:28:08 -!- retrry [~quassel@84.55.45.179] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:32:08 -!- e-user [~e-user@port-87-234-24-237.static.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:33:15 -!- nalbyuites [~ashijit@59.161.104.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:34:22 Gmind [~Welcome@113.190.163.233] has joined #lisp 14:35:13 Gmind1 [~Welcome@113.190.163.233] has joined #lisp 14:35:13 -!- Gmind [~Welcome@113.190.163.233] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:35:32 barceloona [~user@95.214.0.209] has joined #lisp 14:35:32 -!- barceloona [~user@95.214.0.209] has quit [Client Quit] 14:36:08 barceloona [~user@95.214.0.209] has joined #lisp 14:36:11 -!- Zyfo [~oskar@nl107-188-77.student.uu.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:36:39 -!- amb [~a_bakic@19.29.195-77.rev.gaoland.net] has left #lisp 14:36:43 jeti [~user@212-166-226-58.red-acceso.airtel.net] has joined #lisp 14:37:34 nalbyuites [~user@59.161.104.131] has joined #lisp 14:38:29 -!- oskar_ [~oskar@nl107-188-77.student.uu.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:39:19 nefo [~nefo@2402:f000:5:8f01::143:81] has joined #lisp 14:39:21 -!- nefo [~nefo@2402:f000:5:8f01::143:81] has quit [Changing host] 14:39:21 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 14:40:12 -!- Frakk [~Frakk@host162-250-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Frakk] 14:41:48 LiamH [~nobody@pool-72-75-117-4.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:43:02 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-168.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:43:30 xinming_ [~hyy@122.238.74.255] has joined #lisp 14:43:33 -!- xinming [~hyy@122.238.78.87] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:46:53 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 14:47:17 -!- nalbyuites [~user@59.161.104.131] has left #lisp 14:47:42 stassats: I've implemented dynamic slot connections in CommonQt (see my repo), basically now you can just (qt:connect obj "someSignal(int, QString)" #'(lambda (n s) ...)) Was going to do it long time ago but got distracted by swank-js, CCL FFI debugging etc. 14:48:23 -!- xan_ [~xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:48:24 sounds great, i wanted this myself 14:48:51 amb007 [~a_bakic@19.29.195-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 14:50:04 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 14:53:11 -!- benny [~benny@i577A7955.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:54:45 slime-cover is starting to look reasonable, now to solve the problem with sb-cover not liking reader-macros, like #_ in commonqt 14:55:28 ZhouYu [~rudy@118.99.81.127] has joined #lisp 14:58:03 churib [~tg@dslc-082-082-099-065.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:59:55 -!- rme [rme@clozure-775227D1.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout] 15:00:48 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-106-138-18.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:01:23 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:02:31 -!- amb007 [~a_bakic@19.29.195-77.rev.gaoland.net] has left #lisp 15:03:30 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:04:45 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.54.248] has joined #lisp 15:04:59 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 15:06:24 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:07:08 rme [~rme@pool-70-106-140-72.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:10:44 ASau [~user@95-26-92-70.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 15:11:37 ivan4th: it's quite unclear how to use that dwimish connect 15:11:53 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.71.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:12:34 stassats: see test 15:13:56 1. as plain connect (SENDER SIGNAL RECEIVER SLOT-STR) 2. connect to a function (SENDER SIGNAL FUNCTION) 3. connect to a function limiting connection lifetime (SENDER SIGNAL RECEIVER FUNCTION) 15:15:11 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw305048.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:15:51 when specifying signals and slots, wrapping them in (QSIGNAL ...) and (QSLOT ...) aren't mandatory except in case you want to connect a signal to another signal, in which case second (QSIGNAL ...) is mandatory 15:16:36 i keep getting invalid connection destination 15:16:45 what's wrong with (connect search "clicked()" #'qt-search) 15:17:32 oh wait, seems that it's from another place 15:17:45 -!- xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@114.93.130.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:18:35 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@114.93.130.227] has joined #lisp 15:18:45 i had my own connect which worked like (connect search "clicked()" window :slot "openSearch()") and i forgot to remove it 15:20:08 *stassats* goes to modify tons of connects 15:21:08 I had my own underpowered connect in my code too but decided to name QT function CONNECT anyway because I think any other name would suck 15:21:29 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-167-93.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:24:05 -!- ZhouYu [~rudy@118.99.81.127] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:24:50 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:25:01 ivan4th: how do i get previous behaviour, when the first argument was the receiver? 15:25:06 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 15:25:17 ZhouYu [~rudy@118.99.81.127] has joined #lisp 15:25:55 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-213-220-225-182.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:26:46 stassats: hmm... I don't quite recall that behavior... 15:26:47 and when i have a different number of slot arguments 15:27:16 I have a typed array, when i access the elements via aref, SBCL tells me that the upgraded element type is not known at compile time. How can I tell SBCL to optimize it anyway? 15:28:36 Probably you mean a vector? Have a look at system class vector: 15:28:37 clhs vector 15:28:44 Goddamnit. 15:28:58 stassats: can you point me to it? As of now, if you need less arguments that the signal gives, you'll have to use (declare (ignore ...)) in your function 15:29:00 ivan4th: i have (:slots ("classSelected()" class-selected)) and then (connect foo "selectionChanged(QItemSelection,QItemSelection)" receiver :slot "classSelected()"), and then class-selected function is called with receiver 15:29:11 Anyway, in short, declare the array to be of type (vector my-element-type) 15:30:03 no, declare it (simple-array element-type (*)) 15:30:27 stassats: (connect foo 15:30:33 oskar_ [~oskar@nl107-188-77.student.uu.se] has joined #lisp 15:30:41 sorry 15:30:58 -!- lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-58-170.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:31:01 (connect foo "selectionChanged(QItemSelection,QItemSelection)" receiver "classSelected()") should work 15:31:11 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:31:15 well, but i wanted a dynamic thingy 15:31:16 lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-58-170.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 15:31:21 Or simple-vector, if it's one-dimensional, it seems. 15:32:05 i used :element-type '(signed-byte) with make-array. I read the data of the array from a file... 15:32:19 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.108.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:32:25 Hexstream: you can't specify element-type with simple-vector 15:32:40 Whoa. Why not?? :( 15:32:50 stassats: so you'll have to do (connect foo "selectionChanged(QItemSelection,QItemSelection)" receiver #'(lambda (&rest args) (declare (ignore args)) ...)) 15:32:58 ivan4th: that sucks 15:34:11 Oh, that's right, it only lets you specify the size. That seems like an arbitrary restriction (not being able to specify element type) or I'm missing something. 15:34:33 stassats: well, we cannot determine function arity reliably at runtime. I didn't think specifying slot name or number of arguments is considerably better than extra declare. I think it should be possible to add :no-args t to CONNECT or something maybe? 15:34:49 Hexstream: You are missing something. A simple-vector can hold anything. 15:34:59 -!- Gmind1 [~Welcome@113.190.163.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:35:02 well, i'll just continue to use the old way 15:35:22 because i need the first argument to be the receiver 15:36:10 stassats: ah, I didn't understand you. You mean the first argument of the slot function 15:36:28 right 15:36:33 Ah, right. But there's no type specifically designating vectors that have no fill-pointer, not expressly adjustable, not displaced and contain elements of a specific type? 15:36:46 fortunately, there is (simple-array element-type (*)) 15:37:13 stassats: I tought when you're connecting a function dynamically you usually have the receiver as a local variable and can just close over it 15:37:44 ivan4th: i connect to global functions 15:37:47 Oh. I always thought of "vector" equivalents to be more specific, narrow, specialized than "arrays". 15:37:51 -!- longshot [~longshot@216.131.74.24] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:38:14 longshot [~longshot@180.184.11.66] has joined #lisp 15:38:33 Hexstream: it is, that's why i specified just a single dimension 15:38:34 My utter lack of experience with type declaration shows. 15:38:48 vector means 'array of rank 1' 15:39:14 So that (simple-array element-type (*)) specifies a subset of vectors. 15:39:29 stassats: if you specify class slot name to the new connect, you'll get the old behavior (i.e. you get the receiver as the first argument) because it just calls #_connect in that case 15:39:30 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.96.225] has joined #lisp 15:39:31 Makes sense. Thanks for the clarifications. 15:39:43 stassats: declaring as (simple-array type (*)) works - thanks 15:40:06 ivan4th: i get the old behavior, but using dynamic approach seemed nicer than adding a redundant (:slots ("slot()" function)) 15:40:11 Personally I'd rather that array were a subclass of vector. 15:40:47 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.54.248] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:41:13 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.113.184.8] has joined #lisp 15:41:22 gabnet [~gabnet@172.63.193-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 15:41:31 stassats: well, maybe I should add CONNECT* that does this? Will it do? 15:41:55 Arrays are more general than vectors, no?... 15:41:56 -!- pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:42:04 oh no, can we get away without star-names? 15:42:53 Well, you could start with vector supporting something like row-major-aref. 15:43:14 Then you could have array adding a rank structure and aref on top. 15:43:22 Then all of your arrays would be sequences. 15:43:24 stassats: well, I think both behaviors are important and should be easy to invoke... We can add :pass-this keyword argument or something maybe... What would you suggest? 15:43:45 i can't think of anything sane 15:44:50 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:45:09 Zhivago: Eh. Point well argued. I didn't see that coming. 15:45:23 Gmind [~Welcome@113.190.163.233] has joined #lisp 15:45:53 Frakk [~Frakk@host28-49-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:46:19 It might be possible to make arrays sequences anyway with extensible sequences supported by some implementations. 15:46:33 (if it's possible it probably has been done.) 15:48:13 pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:52:05 ivan4th: what does limited lifetime mean? 15:52:07 -!- oskar_ [~oskar@nl107-188-77.student.uu.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:52:44 stassats: when the receiver object is deleted, the function is disconnected from the signal 15:52:49 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 15:53:01 i see 15:54:13 (defun qt:receiver () *current-signal-receiver*) perhaps? 15:54:14 and replace the (declare (ignore this)) with (let ((*current-signal-receiver* this)) ...) 15:55:06 it's much nicer to have a variable named after what's in it 15:56:22 I think it's also rather trivial to write (defun my-connect (sender signal receiver func) (connect sender signal receiver #'(lambda (&rest args) (apply func receiver args)))), the only problem is that plain CONNECT name is taken 15:56:56 oskar_ [~oskar@nl107-188-77.student.uu.se] has joined #lisp 15:57:15 -!- tsuru [~charlie@adsl-179-29-10.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:57:53 or always pass in the receiver, and have users not interested in that argument write (connect ... (shift #'somefun)) 15:57:54 with (defun shift (fun) (lambda (receiver &rest args) (apply fun args))) 15:58:13 *lichtblau* doesn't have a preference and is only offering options 15:58:44 i initially thought that (connect sender signal receiver function) would pass the receiver, but (connect sender signal function) wouldn't 15:59:07 stassats: maybe that's the way to go 16:00:13 using receiver as lifetime limiter is not going to be very common, and adding (declare (ignore this)) in these cases isn't too tiresome 16:00:50 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-65-202-226.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:01:08 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 16:01:11 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-24-4-147-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:01:31 -!- oskar_ [~oskar@nl107-188-77.student.uu.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:01:36 indeed, I don't see any problems with this approach 16:01:45 will implement it now 16:02:23 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 16:02:44 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-204-63.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 16:02:46 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@114.93.130.227] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:04:22 -!- _icecube_ [~icecube@p549C5A98.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:06:28 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 16:07:18 incandenza_ [~quassel@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:08:02 -!- incandenza_ [~quassel@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:09:48 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 16:09:58 -!- Hoornet [~Hoornet@93.103.24.156] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.2 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 16:10:33 lichtblau: interesting name, I've always looked for a good one 16:12:25 oskar_ [~oskar@nl107-188-77.student.uu.se] has joined #lisp 16:15:24 ivan4th: is sweeping needed? Given an object -> connection hash table, the signal cleanup could be done directly in NOTE-DELETED at the cost of a hash table access. 16:18:17 mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:18:18 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:22:52 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 16:23:59 froydnj: around? 16:24:06 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 16:24:21 lichtblau: well, that's right, will fix it a bit later 16:25:14 craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 16:25:41 stassats, lichtblau: pushed the fix for the lack of 'this' argument 16:27:05 -!- Phoodus [~foo@174-22-203-191.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:28:07 note that the real 'this' argument in dynamic signal handler lambda is ignored anyway, because it points to a DYNAMIC-RECEIVER object, not the 'real' receiver. The receiver argument is passed from CONNECT 16:35:14 Gmind1 [~Welcome@113.190.163.233] has joined #lisp 16:35:15 -!- Gmind [~Welcome@113.190.163.233] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:39:03 phaer [~user@chello080108090109.9.11.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 16:41:27 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:41:27 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:41:27 -!- schoppenhauer1 [~christoph@p5B0BDB99.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:41:27 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:41:27 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:41:27 -!- rapacity [~prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:41:27 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.80.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 16:41:27 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [*.net *.split] 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16:59:01 I am trying to add a new "let" expression evaluator to this interpreter written in lisp 16:59:01 http://paste.lisp.org/display/117564#6 16:59:11 I am having problems with the "let" bit 16:59:27 can someone take a quick look at my paste? 16:59:51 I am not sure if my test for the let expression evaluation is correct? I think the code is ok 17:00:26 -!- longshot [~longshot@180.184.11.66] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:00:47 longshot [~longshot@216.131.74.24] has joined #lisp 17:00:59 -!- jewel_ is now known as jewel 17:02:22 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-227-131.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 17:04:05 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.180.35] has joined #lisp 17:05:52 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:08:22 faux [~user@c-219c70d5.035-128-67626713.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 17:11:31 stassats: when I added the INCLUDEPATH lines to commonqt.pro, I wasn't very familiar with qmake yet. Aside from the fact that /home/david was a lazy thing to add, those lines shouldn't have been there in the first place. Users running qmake need to be able to set them on the command line without the .pro file interfering. 17:11:52 So I've removed them now. 17:14:39 -!- craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:16:37 lichtblau: ok. so, how should we continue development? 17:16:51 -!- Bridge|A is now known as Bridge| 17:17:42 like before, pushing stuff to our repos and you will merge them? 17:18:48 -!- ZhouYu [~rudy@118.99.81.127] has quit [] 17:18:51 well, I would like to have a common repo, if we can agree to only push commits to that common repo that have been tested well. On gitorious I'd just have given you two commit access to the commonqt repo. But you're on github now. 17:19:16 i have a gitorious account 17:23:03 lichtblau: I've just created gitorious account, ivan4th 17:23:07 Okay, I've add stassats and ivan4th to http://gitorious.org/commonqt/commonqt with commit rights. 17:23:35 -!- silentbicycle [~scott@99-55-246-143.lightspeed.gdrpmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:23:45 ok, so github will be for experimental stuff, and gitorious for tested 17:24:20 edlinde: it's common to implement let with lambda, in minimal implementations. 17:24:46 (as opposed to maximal implementations, which often try to convert lambda to let :) 17:25:06 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:25:26 cool. Perhaps we can continue to discuss changes here before pushing them, to avoid issues afterwards. Normally I'd suggest email, but if IRC is enough, that might also work. 17:26:15 jlf [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has joined #lisp 17:26:18 email works too 17:28:56 wvdschel [~wim@78-20-14-180.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 17:28:56 -!- wvdschel [~wim@78-20-14-180.access.telenet.be] has quit [Changing host] 17:28:56 wvdschel [~wim@unaffiliated/yukito] has joined #lisp 17:29:49 as for me both email and IRC are fine 17:30:57 -!- Bridge| is now known as Bridge|A 17:32:35 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757790.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:33:40 -!- edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: edlinde] 17:34:24 edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 17:34:24 well, we can use commonqt-devel on common-lisp.net when email is appropriate 17:34:35 i just subscribed to it 17:34:35 -!- Gmind1 [~Welcome@113.190.163.233] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:34:52 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:35:17 Gmind [~Welcome@113.190.163.233] has joined #lisp 17:35:21 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 17:35:56 -!- edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 17:37:53 now, what's left is to write some killer-app using commonqt 17:38:06 srolls [~user@c-76-126-221-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:41:28 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 17:41:31 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:45:05 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@172.63.193-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 17:45:51 I wrote a shopping list app a-la (simplified) Handy Shopper in Python for my N900, with that 'All/Needed' separation. Now I hope to rewrite it in CL soon :) Also there's that SCADA thing I'm working on, but it has narrower use 17:47:05 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 17:55:49 -!- jlf [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:56:02 Bronsa [~bronsa@host200-186-dynamic.6-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:57:31 hmm. speaking of apps, hemlock.qt doesn't work anymore 17:57:59 after the changes? 17:59:09 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:59:48 Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050069136.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:02:08 so I have this guy in my shop that believes that python is omega, and while I use python and like it for some system integration tasks, I think it's blub. He trotted out the old "Lisp is _SLOW_" argument on an internal discussion list, so I responded with this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/117605 18:02:22 of course, it's not a benchmark, but it is a pretty funny cartoon. 18:03:07 -!- Caffeine [~satanama@216.252.92.19] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:03:18 Caffeine [~satanama@216.252.92.19] has joined #lisp 18:06:08 -!- aack [~user@a83-163-241-74.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:09:50 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:12:05 Fade: so, what's the moral? 18:12:14 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.96.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:12:19 -!- pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo_] 18:13:42 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 18:13:53 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.97.111] has joined #lisp 18:14:00 -!- nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:14:02 Fade: A python guy saying lisp is slow is not even funny, it's just borderline retarded 18:14:20 stassats: I think this means that the proper response to Python programmer saying that Lisp is slow would be "   " in Russian. Don't know what the proper proverb in English is 18:14:35 -!- lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-58-170.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:14:54 lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-58-170.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:15:01 "whose python barks" 18:15:17 what? 18:16:00 drdo: that's a translation of a russian idiom, only it has a cow instead of a python 18:16:25 What is it supposed to me? 18:16:33 The literal translation doesn't make much sense 18:16:50 drdo: something like what your response to Fade was 18:16:59 well, the nearest english idiom is perhaps "the pot calling the kettle black" actually, but it's not 100% appropriate there 18:17:09 oh 18:17:11 i get it 18:17:20 there's something like that in portuguese 18:19:16 mp_g [~mp_g@pc44es141.cs.uni-magdeburg.de] has joined #lisp 18:19:16 but that doesn't actually apply much here, python is really really slow 18:21:01 stassats: there's now an unmarshaller for QByteArray, which tries to extract the #_data of every QByteArray. That is broken, I'll have to revert it. 18:21:18 Is commonqt nice to use? 18:21:28 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 18:22:04 Meaning, is it basically raw bindings or does it make use of lisp features? 18:23:35 lichtblau: careful, this may break emit-signal (QMetaMethod::parameterTypes() returning QList), perhaps it will need to be fixed too 18:23:49 no, it's not nice to use. It crashes when I try to do basically anything with it. :-P 18:24:28 That's not what i meant :P 18:24:52 Phoodus [~foo@174-22-203-191.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:24:54 CCL's cocoa thingie for example is not nice at all, it's basically programming objective-c 18:26:01 I haven't used the objective C bridge, but I think that it is on roughly the same conceptual level as CommonQt. 18:26:30 :S 18:28:19 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@221.220.249.209] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:28:42 Fade: FWIW, http://paste.lisp.org/display/117605#1 18:28:49 drdo: The binding level is just that  bindings. Build something nice on top. EG, with CCL, there's the McCLIM beagle backend (although whether or not it works at any given moment is up in the air). 18:29:07 sabalaba [~sabalaba@221.220.249.209] has joined #lisp 18:29:23 lichtblau: yeah, i thought that always unmarshalling QByteArray might be not a good idea 18:29:24 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-168.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 18:31:40 Fade: bind *print-pretty* speeds it up as well 18:32:05 stassats: no problem, this one is easy to fix. 18:32:13 gonzojive [~red@adsl-75-6-248-33.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:32:21 The heap corruption I'm getting now is harder to debug. I think I'll have to give up for today, and will have to binary search for the commit causing that. 18:33:49 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:34:32 -!- Gmind [~Welcome@113.190.163.233] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:35:15 Gmind [~Welcome@113.190.163.233] has joined #lisp 18:35:44 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:35:55 -!- nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:36:22 annihilator [~rff@ip72-207-243-174.br.br.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:35 nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has joined #lisp 18:36:57 Astrobe [~opera@117.138.85-79.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 18:37:08 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 18:39:41 -!- gonzojive [~red@adsl-75-6-248-33.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:39:47 -!- rff [~rff@ip72-207-243-174.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:41:20 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Client Quit] 18:42:46 gonzojive [~red@adsl-75-6-248-33.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:43:13 without qbytearray marshalling i got hemlock working, but it's redisplay is strange 18:46:56 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 18:48:18 rrn [~rrn@unaffiliated/rrn] has joined #lisp 18:48:34 Off-topic, but... 18:48:44 I simply cannot believe what I'm reading here: http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/16820/should-i-go-to-college-or-focus-on-open-source-projects 18:49:06 lichtblau: it shows part of my application at the background http://common-lisp.net/~sboukarev/hemlock.png 18:49:30 even though i didn't even start it in this image of sbcl 18:50:35 rrn: off-topic indeed. 18:51:07 I went the open-source programming route after starting a degree, and look where it got me... (-; 18:51:39 antifuchs: it got you to #lisp? 18:52:11 antifuchs: Theoretical CS? 18:52:45 eh, hemlock is still horrible at non-ascii characters 18:52:59 antifuchs: OS programming during my dental medicine degree lead me to computer science ;) 18:53:01 stassats: looks like it doesn't render the background svg at all; I wonder what the stuff on the left side is. 18:53:07 Can you right-click and View -> Toggle Menu Bar? That's an instant crash for me. 18:53:28 i.e. low-level error in *inferior-lisp*, details depending on which Lisp it is. 18:54:01 lichtblau: can't it reuse qtexteditor or something, because i can't input non-ascii characters into it? 18:54:53 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 18:54:54 -!- gonzojive [~red@adsl-75-6-248-33.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:55:17 pkhuong: Really? You studied dentistry? 18:55:30 Vierd. :P 18:55:31 lichtblau: with toggle menubar i got even more parts from different qt applications juxtaposed 18:55:59 -!- rrn [~rrn@unaffiliated/rrn] has left #lisp 18:56:39 i'll try to close all applications using qt 18:56:40 stassats: I'm not planning on reusing Qt editor classes. Full Unicode is obviously needed. Although at the moment, obviously more urgent issues await. 18:58:01 still the same 18:58:39 i have qt 4.7.0 19:01:06 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@host86-133-248-172.range86-133.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:01:21 one step after the other. I'll push my QByteArray change, and then we'll see about the rest. 19:01:28 and toggling menubar works, albeit with an unhandled memory fault, but otherwise it seems to work 19:03:24 the unhandled memory fault is what I'm referring to. 19:05:03 the last memory fault I encountered had to deal with QT interfering with SBCL signal handling, but this is perhaps different matter 19:06:31 edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 19:08:23 How can I ensure that some variable is an integer, and if it's not, convert it to an integer? 19:08:41 integerp 19:09:02 That's much, much better than what I was trying to do, thank you 19:09:07 you can't convert to an integer everything 19:09:19 stassats: I'd like to try and throw an error if it doesn't work 19:10:05 the only thing you can reliably convert to an integer is a string containing an integer 19:11:23 -!- sacho [~sacho@90.154.204.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:12:09 hmm, parse integer is pretty cool :) 19:12:16 HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-143-251.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:15:36 -!- Caffeine [~satanama@216.252.92.19] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:16:44 -!- wvdschel [~wim@unaffiliated/yukito] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:18:42 I've pushed my fix to branch qbytearray-fix. It passes tests for me, but doesn't help with hemlock. Please test with your apps. 19:20:35 lichtblau: window-geometry-using-qvarant-and-qbytarray - typo (qvarant instead of qvariant) 19:20:44 sixpoint8 [~jaykub@ip68-12-204-131.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:22:56 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.236.25] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 19:23:25 lichtblau: works for me 19:23:27 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:23:29 ivan4th: okay, commit amended 19:23:29 19:23:57 PCChris [~PCChris@cpe-69-135-187-90.woh.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:26:28 Caffeine [~satanama@216.252.92.19] has joined #lisp 19:27:48 -!- oskar_ [~oskar@nl107-188-77.student.uu.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:28:39 muhdik [~IceChat7@99-14-26-190.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:34 -!- Gmind [~Welcome@113.190.163.233] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:34:57 Gmind [~Welcome@113.190.163.233] has joined #lisp 19:35:29 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.97.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:35:30 lichtblau: tested qbytearray fix with my code. My code (partially ported scada) works. Tests pass. I've once got memory fault *after* running qt tests with my app loaded (I highly doubt this has to do with qbytearray marshalling) 19:37:18 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.99.1] has joined #lisp 19:41:54 Edward [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-60-125.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:42:30 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.99.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:42:54 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:42:59 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.180.35] has left #lisp 19:43:45 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.99.31] has joined #lisp 19:43:53 -!- mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:44:11 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@232-13-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #lisp 19:46:11 -!- Caffeine [~satanama@216.252.92.19] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:46:17 Caffeine [~satanama@216.252.92.19] has joined #lisp 19:46:30 lichtblau: after doing (setf hemlock:*background-image* nil) i don't have any artifacts 19:50:06 akkartik [~akkartik@akkartik.name] has joined #lisp 19:50:20 what does (declare (ignore x)) do? 19:50:30 ignores a variable 19:50:40 -!- PCChris [~PCChris@cpe-69-135-187-90.woh.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:50:49 or a function 19:51:19 I don't follow. Let's focus on the variable case. It doesn't seem to be hiding bindings. Nor does it disallow future bindings of the variable. 19:51:22 it instructs the compiler not to warn about an unused variable (or binding, in general) 19:51:37 ah, so no implications for correctness or performance? 19:51:40 and to warn if it's used 19:51:52 daniel_ [~daniel@p5082B1B9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:52 notice that (declare (ignore ..)) is special syntax allowed before the body of a binding form 19:52:09 yes 19:52:18 its part of the syntax, in itself it's not meaninful (it can't be evaluated) 19:52:26 yes 19:52:32 why would I want to include it? 19:52:39 (proclaim '(ignore x)) 19:52:51 akkartik: in case you don't want to use a variable 19:52:56 -!- muhdik [~IceChat7@99-14-26-190.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:52:57 akkartik: to explicitly express that you meant not to use that variable. 19:53:21 ok, so I get a warning if I use it. thank you. 19:55:44 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 19:55:52 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5B32648E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:56:55 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-143-251.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:57:13 clhs ignorable 19:57:59 retrry [~quassel@b4.vu.lt] has joined #lisp 19:58:28 -!- mp_g [~mp_g@pc44es141.cs.uni-magdeburg.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:59:44 pjb: yes I looked at clhs, but any sentence using "for-value references" becomes opaque to me.. what _are_ for-value references? 19:59:46 tompa1 [~thomas@h59ec27fb.sehjjak.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #lisp 19:59:55 -!- tompa1 [~thomas@h59ec27fb.sehjjak.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:00:13 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-221-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:00:22 timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-64-118.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:01:34 with hindsight, I guess it just means using a variable. 20:01:52 no more opacity there, woot 20:03:22 bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.213.85] has joined #lisp 20:04:39 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-221-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:00 Calypse [230bd5c4@gateway/web/freenode/ip.35.11.213.196] has joined #lisp 20:09:24 akkartik: yes. Because a symbol can be used to name functions, blocks, goto tags, etc. 20:10:46 -!- Gmind [~Welcome@113.190.163.233] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:10:51 oskar_ [~oskar@nl107-188-77.student.uu.se] has joined #lisp 20:11:33 suddenly http://www.ai.mit.edu/projects/iiip/doc/CommonLISP/HyperSpec/Body/glo_f.html#for-value makes a lot of sense, dunno why it was so hard before. 20:11:35 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:15:31 oconnore [~eric@ip68-225-113-244.mc.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:39 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:16:03 s0ber_ [~s0ber@111-240-205-247.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:16:48 gabnet [~gabnet@172.63.193-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 20:18:08 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-212-190.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:18:22 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 20:20:17 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 20:20:43 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:24:08 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 20:24:33 are there any lisp-1s other than scheme? 20:24:54 lichtblau: looks like it's because enabling the menubar forces a resize, resizing manually gives a memory fault too 20:25:00 mheld: Clojure? 20:26:14 stassats: it segfaults even before the window appears with CCL. So the actual memory corruption might be happening much, much earlier than any user interaction. 20:26:26 The good news is that I can reproduce this without your changes. 20:26:35 The bad news is that I can't find any combination of all the software involved that still works. 20:28:07 *stassats* calls it a day 20:29:02 stassats: yeah. i wanted it to run through all the calculations. anyhow, the moral was just amusement and an unusually long silence from this particular guy. :) 20:30:07 so, no denial? 20:30:17 well, he's not totally retarded. 20:32:27 I suspect he's probably trying to make the python version faster. i doubt it would occur to him to go by the stride. my first cut looked a lot like your annotation, but I didn't think it ran long enough to make the point. 20:33:02 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:33:58 Fade: well, doing step = int(sys.argv[1]) speeds up considerably 20:34:11 I hadn't seen anybody trot out the old "Lisp is slow" nugget in a long while. 20:34:17 aye. it does 20:34:47 i just wanted some compute intensive busy work. 20:35:13 well, lisp version doesn't do this, if you wanted it to be fair 20:36:43 lisp is slow in the sense that it can be made faster 20:36:56 -!- drl_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:38:11 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d011b3a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:38:30 hi 20:40:51 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:44:30 DarthShrine [~angus@pdpc/supporter/student/DarthShrine] has joined #lisp 20:45:31 ah, right you are. 20:45:37 the python is a bit rusty. 20:46:43 eslick [~eslick@206.127.32.140] has joined #lisp 20:46:43 -!- eslick [~eslick@206.127.32.140] has quit [Client Quit] 20:47:08 eslick [~eslick@206.127.32.140] has joined #lisp 20:47:09 eslick_ [~eslick@206.127.32.140] has joined #lisp 20:47:16 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:46 i thought the initial call would get memoized. 20:49:17 memoization isn't free 20:49:47 Anyone have problems with latest slime doing slime-connect and getting no-such-package errors? 20:49:57 no 20:50:00 which package? 20:50:03 Seems like a swank call-with-bindings is passing null for *package* 20:50:19 drl_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 20:50:24 Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has joined #lisp 20:50:36 Happening in swank:connection-info 20:50:42 On CCL 20:51:01 can't reproduce 20:53:43 -!- oskar_ [~oskar@nl107-188-77.student.uu.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:54:02 pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:54:10 benny [~benny@i577A1E58.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 20:55:02 jlf` [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has joined #lisp 20:56:10 -!- drl_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:58:52 s1ugg0 [~Chrish@c-75-64-77-87.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:58:59 churib1 [~tg@dslc-082-082-099-065.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:59:18 without the calling to sys.argv in the loop, the python version completes in a hair under 11 minutes. 20:59:59 http://paste.lisp.org/display/117605#2 21:00:17 -!- sixpoint8 [~jaykub@ip68-12-204-131.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Off to lose my soul to playing games.] 21:01:33 let me guess, it does a FFI read into a C array on the stack on every call, while CL version copied the arguments on init? 21:02:25 -!- moah [~gnu@dslb-084-061-245-213.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: "Anail nachroc, uthvass bethudd, dochiel dienve."] 21:03:31 let _me_ guess: python is slow, lisp is fast 21:03:54 stassats: that doesn't require a guess :P 21:04:42 though fortunately Python isn't as slow as Ruby <1.9 21:04:57 p_l|backup: it's not surprising. Python sucks at string stuff. I once wrote an RCS-diff applying function in Python. Going to C++ increased performance by huge factors. 21:04:59 I still would love to have something like SQLAlchemy in CL. CL-PEREC is perhaps close but it isn't documented too well. ORM isn't panacea but sometimes it's quite useful thing to have... 21:05:28 most of that is because of string parsing. 21:05:29 ehu: mind you, it doesn't suck as much as Haskell's default string implementation 21:05:40 hehe. 21:06:04 SQLAlchemy is pretty nice. 21:06:37 Viflux [~Adam@CPE0021297b10f9-CM0012c9ab5d02.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 21:07:27 Fade: yeah, it is! My app at work is pretty large and was developed exclusively on Linux using PostgreSQL as db, but it took me less than a day to make most of it run under Windows using SQLite. 21:08:21 *p_l|backup* found two Ruby ORM/db frameworks to be worthy: DataMapper (ORM) and Sequel (more like DSL than typical ORM) 21:08:43 relational objects for lisp is pretty nice. 21:09:28 drl_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 21:10:04 Fade: does it have identity map, unit of work, etc.? 21:10:08 somnium [~user@184.42.17.189] has joined #lisp 21:10:32 -!- Viflux [~Adam@CPE0021297b10f9-CM0012c9ab5d02.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:10:48 well, it isn't as all-singing-all-dancing as sqlalchemy, for sure. 21:10:52 Viflux [~Adam@CPE0021297b10f9-CM0012c9ab5d02.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 21:12:11 this exchange with the python guy came about because I got dragged into a python project based on SQLAlchemy. 21:12:32 anyhow, rofl is in quicklisp. check it out. 21:12:44 Viflux1 [~Adam@CPE0021297b10f9-CM0012c9ab5d02.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 21:13:13 davazp [~user@36.Red-79-153-149.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:47 Fade, will definitely look at it 21:14:08 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:15:11 -!- boysetsfrog [~nathan@123-243-214-176.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:15:30 -!- Viflux [~Adam@CPE0021297b10f9-CM0012c9ab5d02.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:15:49 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:16:17 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.113.184.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:16:49 sacho [~sacho@90.154.204.70] has joined #lisp 21:17:02 craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 21:17:49 -!- sacho [~sacho@90.154.204.70] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 21:18:39 sacho [~sacho@90.154.204.70] has joined #lisp 21:19:35 Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:19:43 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-168-169.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:21:44 hi all I am trying to write a macros "nth-expr" that takes an int "n" (or it can be an expression) and another argument which is a list of expressions, I then evaluate the nth expression and return its value 21:21:46 I did 21:21:47 (defmacro nth-expr (n &body body) 21:21:48 `(nth ,n ,@body)) 21:22:01 but it doesn't completely evaluate the nth expression 21:22:05 just returns it as is 21:22:12 CL-USER> (nth-expr (+ 1 1) '( (+ 1 2) (+ 2 3 4) (+ 4 5))) 21:22:12 (+ 4 5) 21:22:29 -!- Viflux1 [~Adam@CPE0021297b10f9-CM0012c9ab5d02.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:22:39 wondering if someone here knew what I was doing wrong with this macros? 21:25:17 anyone? 21:26:02 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757790.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:27:49 wow the channel seems to have gone dead suddenly :) hehe 21:27:52 (eval (nth-expr 2 '( (+ 1 2) (+ 2 3 4) (+ 4 5)))) 21:28:18 => 9 21:28:22 edlinde, what's the point of that macro? 21:28:28 yeah but its got to happen from within the macro 21:28:30 silentbicycle [~scott@99-55-246-143.lightspeed.gdrpmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:28:35 necroforest: its an exercise 21:28:38 -!- churib1 [~tg@dslc-082-082-099-065.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:28:46 necroforest: not really a point to it 21:28:48 oh, got it :) 21:28:51 :) 21:29:06 a macro won't evaluate the expression 21:29:07 -!- churib [~tg@dslc-082-082-099-065.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:29:10 Fade: so can I do the eval within the macros 21:29:10 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050069136.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:29:15 it just returns the code 21:29:18 right 21:29:23 although, idk man. 21:29:26 that's kind of hideous. 21:29:31 why are you doing that? 21:29:38 you could also just not quote it 21:29:54 that works 21:29:56 cool 21:30:00 (Defmacro nth-exp (n &body body) (nth n body)) 21:30:15 does that work? 21:30:27 (defmacro nth-expr (n &body body) 21:30:27 `(eval (nth ,n ,@body))) 21:30:33 thats what I got finally 21:31:23 well 21:31:30 CL-USER> (nth 1 '((+ 1 2) (+ 3 4))) 21:31:31 (+ 3 4) 21:31:36 thats what nth gives me 21:31:39 normally 21:31:42 right 21:31:49 so it doesn't evaluate it's args either huh? 21:32:00 it's not evaluating them because you quoted it 21:32:09 ah 21:32:29 if it's not a macro or a special form it will always evaulate all of its arguments 21:32:34 if I dont its an error 21:32:47 CL-USER> (nth 1 ((+ 1 2) (+ 3 4))) 21:32:47 ; Evaluation aborted on #. 21:32:57 (nth 1 (list (+ 1 2) (+ 3 4))) 21:32:59 try that 21:33:24 ok that works 21:33:30 weird hmmm 21:33:35 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:33:57 -!- drl_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:34:00 edlinde: In lisp, parens are not just arbitrary groupings. 21:34:04 edlinde: please, read a book. 21:34:33 pkhuong: I have ... I forget sometimes :) 21:37:01 -!- Edward [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-60-125.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 21:38:54 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 21:42:08 boysetsfrog [~nathan@123-243-214-176.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:43:02 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host200-186-dynamic.6-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:43:18 -!- davazp [~user@36.Red-79-153-149.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:45:56 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-64-41.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 21:46:11 -!- faux [~user@c-219c70d5.035-128-67626713.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:46:39 drl_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 21:47:17 davazp [~user@36.Red-79-153-149.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:43 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-130-137.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:48:10 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:49:39 Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:50:24 -!- rfg [~rfg@client-86-25-216-162.glw-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has quit [Quit: rfg] 21:51:26 SsvRrwQ [~user@S0106001c1122940c.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 21:55:29 Vicfred [~Vicfred@201.102.53.179] has joined #lisp 21:57:35 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.113.184.8] has joined #lisp 21:58:16 franki^: why would I use clojure over scheme or common lisp? 21:58:18 Ralith: I see you forked & started using CL-LLVM. Curious to hear how it's working out. 21:58:42 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:58:44 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:58:58 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@172.63.193-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 21:59:08 mheld: I don't know, I've never used Clojure. 21:59:34 mheld: You asked if there were other Lisp-1s; Clojure is a Lisp-1 22:00:10 ah 22:00:15 well, thanks :-) 22:00:23 I'm just debating a few things right now 22:00:33 -!- drl_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:01:07 sellout: you can see from the changes I've made! 22:01:32 sellout: by the way, what's standard procedure for getting C API functionality upstream? 22:01:56 I'm a schemer (racketeer), but I'm hesitant about using scheme (racket) for a full-blown web application 22:02:08 mheld: For one, Clojure allows you to directly use any Java class... 22:02:25 (and runs on the JVM too... that's why) 22:02:36 that's true, but I like TCO 22:03:15 Caffeine: use Common Lisp on the JVM and you get lots of existing CL code - including large packages such as Maxima 22:03:28 Common Lisp runs on the JVM too. 22:03:40 Ralith: send a patch to the llvm-commits mailing list  that's what I did to get arbitrary-precision ints to work. 22:04:03 ehu.. okay! cool.. I know nothing about CL yet.. looking to order a book.. 22:04:35 Caffeine: there are 2 implementations: cl4java and ABCL. 22:04:56 Given Lisp's age, I'll be surprized if there's not a good amount of good quality libraries 22:05:01 each with their own choices. 22:05:09 sellout: kk. Do you know any way to get IR out of LLVM as a string? 22:05:13 choices for implementation, that is. 22:05:19 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.213.85] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:05:47 sellout: via the extant C API that is 22:06:11 ehu: I guess the jvm implementation doesn't support tail call optimization, right? 22:06:18 true. 22:06:27 at least, ABCL doesn't. 22:06:30 Ralith: Nope, on my todo  although I see I don't have an issue open for it. Just DUMP-* at the moment, AFAIK. 22:06:54 sellout: yeah, it's just annoying how that writes to stdout directly and thus circumvents slime's I/O redirection 22:07:02 Exactly. 22:07:12 ehu: okay... that's weird, because the way functionnal programming was tought to me, TCO is pretty much a central piece of it... 22:07:19 I would happily toss those in favor of a way to get a string back. 22:07:23 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-170-96.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 22:07:34 Caffeine: it's not impossible, however, nobody has taken it up yet. Bigloo - I believe - had a Java implementation which supported it on the JVM. 22:07:41 sellout: I can scrap together a patch quickly; I've gotten it working before. 22:07:48 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:08:12 Caffeine: you can get a long way with a 6MB stack size :-) 22:08:19 pnq [~nick@AC815CDE.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 22:08:37 Ralith: Sweet. 22:08:43 mheld: why are you hesitant to use racket? 22:08:43 rfg [~rfg@client-86-25-216-162.glw-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has joined #lisp 22:08:45 Hraban [~Hraban@78-21-52-198.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 22:08:57 ehu: loll I guess! Depends on what you're calculating... Something that will run for minutes in a recursive loop better have TCO.. 22:09:12 -!- Hraban is now known as Landr 22:09:16 sure! 22:09:53 Ralith: Since the only reason for the C API is bindings to other languages, dumping makes no sense. 22:10:09 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 22:10:09 as I said, it's not impossible, just that nobody took the opportunity yet. 22:10:13 sellout: well, it's still handy for debugging, which is its purpose 22:10:28 Caffeine: we'll happily accept the contribution, ofcourse! 22:10:41 sellout: It just doesn't appear that there's any way but via the JIT to do things which *aren't* dumping. 22:10:42 -!- ch077179 [~urs@adsl-89-217-165-58.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:10:52 ehu: Yeah, nice to know it's not impossible with the JVM... Lets just hope someone implements it. 22:10:55 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 22:11:02 lol sure 22:11:40 prxq: I think mheld is in a programming language selection phase... like myself.. such a hard time 22:11:50 prxq: web frameworks? 22:13:08 I guess I should just do it 22:13:13 I <3 racket 22:13:20 drl_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 22:14:23 mheld: I love Racket too (but I hate the new name) .. It's worth trying IMO.. 22:15:02 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-236-25.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 22:16:00 mheld: you mean, lack of web framework? 22:16:00 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-236-25.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 22:16:22 mheld: which ones have you tried in CL? 22:16:41 I've used hunchentoot once, but I wouldn't say that's a web framework 22:17:05 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.236.25] has joined #lisp 22:18:02 -!- jlf` [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:19:11 Hunchentoot is a great foundation for simple sites (like Ring in Clojure) 22:19:29 I've used Weblocks extensively, but it can be quite a learning curve to use well 22:19:32 mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has joined #lisp 22:19:56 I'm having a nasty bug with Montezuma. 22:20:01 (non-sequitor) 22:20:05 hello dto around? 22:20:37 Anyone seen problems where the montezuma files get corrupted by requests from a worker thread that work fine from a repl? 22:21:38 mon_key: hi 22:22:30 dto: just wanted to let you know latest git commit on iosketch 05a0e3f992f327eaf96e didn't compile @ blocks.lisp 22:22:59 `block' prototype slot missing :documentation key :) 22:23:01 mon_key: oh. sorry. i'll check in something that works. 22:23:34 i went through and added documentation but also renamed a few things and maybe introduced errors. 22:23:40 i didn't know anyone was trying to build my engine 22:24:32 the GUI is not very interesting yet, however i've set aside the next 8 hours at least for a sustained coding session and maybe at the end of tonight i will have something more interesting to show. i just need to do a few more functions. 22:24:44 dto: I don't get it all yet, but what i understan of it is pretty cool. 22:24:54 what have you looked at so far? 22:24:56 documentation is lacking 22:25:32 http://dto.github.com/notebook/iomacs.html here is a newer written overview 22:25:40 i changed it to iosketch since i wrote this 22:25:44 dto: got everything build last night. Came back to it just now. 22:25:54 oh cool. 22:26:28 with any luck tonight's commits will result in a usable UI with an actual game object actually being scripted by the blocks. 22:26:34 it's a hop skip and jump from there 22:26:54 dto: leveraging sdl is a great idea. you can avoid so many platform pitfalls 22:27:31 yep. :) 22:27:51 however i wont have so much the speed problems of scratch, being SBCL machine code compiled :) 22:27:52 dto: FWIW I'm not a game person at all but i looked at mit Scratch and saw the light :) 22:28:37 mon_key: yes :) see when i looked into Scratch and its variants i saw that I had a decent game engine for doing stuff a bit better than that, but i didn't have a visual interface. so i've been working the last week or so hardcore on that 22:28:40 dto: gestures/sdl/emacs/block/touchscreen ... just add devide 22:28:54 device? 22:29:36 dto: imagining some i equivalent in the loop :) 22:29:56 oh? selling ubuntu tablet pcs would be neat. 22:30:08 ipad people banned scratch tho 22:30:45 dto: of course but there will be other non apple i 22:31:02 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-170-96.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:33:06 sword [~user@c-76-115-88-63.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:36:14 i've looked into android. anyone know anything about ABCL and android 22:36:47 mon_key: i want to try to make the iosketch ui extensible so that people can add blocks for this or that other library to hook them into the visual programming situation 22:38:19 dto: :) This is the clever insight whether intentional or not. Everyone knows how to drive a "videogame". 22:38:29 katesmith_ [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 22:39:37 strlen_ [~alex@behemoth.strlen.net] has joined #lisp 22:40:24 yan__ [~asym@srtd.org] has joined #lisp 22:40:40 urandom_ [~user@p548A6549.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:40:48 guaqua_ [gua@xob.kapsi.fi] has joined #lisp 22:40:48 bigjust_` [~bigjust@justin.caratzas.org] has joined #lisp 22:40:53 delYsid`` [~user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 22:41:02 galdor_ [galdor@def92-10-88-162-192-107.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 22:41:06 Kerrick2 [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has joined #lisp 22:41:09 jhuni_ [~jhuni@udp217774uds.hawaiiantel.net] has joined #lisp 22:42:07 dmiles [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:42:14 -!- urandom_ [~user@p548A6549.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:42:34 NNshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 22:42:44 -!- ace4016 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[Quit: Leaving] 23:38:39 jeti [~user@212-73-44-23.red-acceso.airtel.net] has joined #lisp 23:40:37 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.54.248] has joined #lisp 23:41:14 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-64-41.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:41:20 Skunkwaffle [~Waffle@pool-108-27-82-10.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:43:42 So I'm calling (eval) on a list, but one of the things in the list is another list that only contains data. I don't want to actually eval that item so I turned it into a string. But now I can't make it into a list again. Can someone help me get back on track with this? 23:44:01 Skunkwaffle: use QUOTE 23:44:12 Skunkwaffle: Why do you want to call eval? 23:44:56 Basically I have a struct, that contains some function calls. 23:45:33 What do you mean by "contains some function calls" ? 23:45:34 So when I want to actually do it, I just pull out the function call, use eval, and then it works 23:45:52 Sorry, one of the fields in the struct is a list of actions to be performed. 23:46:21 and each is a complete function call. Such as: (foo param1 param2) 23:47:00 Sometimes the parameters are just symbols, and everything works fine 23:47:15 but sometimes one of the parameters is a list, that just contains symbols, no actual function calls 23:47:29 Well, that's quite weird, calling eval is not something you do very often 23:48:10 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-236-25.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 23:48:11 Yeah true. If there's a better way, I'm definitely open to it, but this seemed to do what I needed in every case except the one. 23:48:30 Skunkwaffle: I am afraid you are pretty far off track. The best thing you can do is pause, take one of the good books around, and get a better grasp of the basics. Try "practical common lisp", "a gentle introduction to symbolic computation" or "ANSI common lisp". 23:48:32 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-236-25.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 23:48:49 hmm, that bad huh? 23:49:02 -!- Skunkwaffle [~Waffle@pool-108-27-82-10.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:49:03 Skunkwaffle [~Waffle@unaffiliated/Skunkwaffle] has joined #lisp 23:49:04 It's really weird to want to call eval 23:49:14 It smells quite a lot 23:49:37 oh does it? Okay I probably shouldn't then. 23:49:44 no, it is not weird, it has its justification. it's just rare. 23:50:17 Yeah, it's the first time I'm using it, and maybe I shouldn't be 23:50:21 prxq: Yes, that's my point, there's probably a better way, specially considering that he doesn't seem very comfortable 23:50:44 yeah, I'm still pretty new to lisp. I come from an oo background so this is all quite new to me 23:50:57 Skunkwaffle: that is ok. 23:51:14 are you using some text to guide you? 23:51:36 Skunkwaffle: and CL is quite OO, actually :-) 23:51:54 yeah kind of, which is why I'm using it 23:52:32 I have an E-text. "Practical Common Lisp" I think. Admittedly I haven't been using it much lately. 23:52:37 -!- eugu [~eugene@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:52:44 ok, that one is pretty decent 23:53:19 Here's what's going on. I have a bunch of functions, and a bunch of structs that contain calls to the functions. 23:53:33 puddingpimp [ipjesgyv@118-93-180-173.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:53:37 what are these structs made of? 23:53:46 1's and 0's I think 23:53:50 :-) 23:53:57 Skunkwaffle: What are trying to do in the first place? 23:53:58 I mean, s-expressions, classes, etc 23:53:59 a bunch of stuff 23:54:10 no they're just lists and integers 23:54:18 no symbols? 23:54:34 yeah one symbol 23:54:54 can you paste the thing in paste.lisp.org? 23:55:04 yeah hang on a second 23:55:11 Skunkwaffle: What is the purpose of such structure, what are you trying to do? 23:55:43 It's supposed to be part of this Rule-Based system. 23:55:52 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 23:56:04 Skunkwaffle: Do you want to implement a pattern matcher? 23:56:26 no, I just need a way to store function calls for later 23:56:27 -!- cinch [~cinch@85-127-97-42.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:56:45 Skunkwaffle: Functions are objects, you can store them like any other object 23:57:24 so it's like: I might want to call FOO with these parameters, but I'm not sure yet, so let me save this, and keep doing some other stuff until I am sure 23:57:27 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-118-114.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:57:52 and when I decide what I want to do, then I just need to do it 23:58:12 Skunkwaffle: that's usually implemented with thunks: (lambda () (function-to-call argument-1 argument-2)). Then you can just (funcall this-thunk) as needed. 23:58:22 So I think I can port http://norvig.com/lispy.html to about 1000 lines of C code, currently I am at 700 LoC--not sure if that's any good. :-) 23:58:49 Okay I'll try it, gotta run though, people at my door. 23:58:51 thanks 23:58:56 well, dostoyevsky, briefness was never your stength... 23:58:57 -!- timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-64-118.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:59:04 :P 23:59:12 dostoyevsky: Why C though? 23:59:26 drdo: For tragedy... 23:59:28 Unless you enjoy pain or something :D 23:59:37 dostoyevsky: good one :)