00:01:00 -!- La0fer [~Laofers1@64.120.233.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:01:59 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:05 -!- pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:ddfc] has quit [] 00:03:32 sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:05:47 Hmm, whenever I do that, everything falls apart 00:07:16 when you do what ? 00:09:16 rpg: yes to change the coding system you have to either restart or eval it the change of the conding system like M-: (setf 'slime-net-coding-system 'bla) or so 00:09:41 homie: thanks. 00:10:19 rpg: even having changed it in say your .emacs won't help even if you did an C-x e on the say changed definition of (setf 'slime-ne.....) 00:10:41 rpg: you have to eval it interactively with M-: (setf ....) 00:11:03 rpg: that's for taking effect immediately 00:11:38 disumu [~disumu@pD4B9E6BC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:11:42 homie: And that will work without killing the lisp and restarting? Awesome. 00:12:05 rpg: i many times changed variables like that and did an C-x e in the hope to have immediate effect, but that was a fail 00:12:34 seangrove: what's up? 00:13:12 rpg: even if did M-x mark-whole buffer and M-x eval-buffer afterwards 00:14:21 rpg: whith the note ther first was even superflulous 00:15:59 Xach: Now nothing works, like defun 00:19:28 seangrove: you defined a package that does :use :c2mop or similar, you're in-package that package, and defun is not cl:defun? 00:19:50 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:19:55 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757a2f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:20:20 seangrove: Ok, looks like I gave you bad advice. let me see what I screwed up. 00:20:24 -!- tib [~tl@89-180-206-153.net.novis.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:21:17 xan_ [~xan@26.Red-88-24-228.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 00:21:28 seangrove: sorry, the package that re-exports the CL symbols is called closer-common-lisp. 00:21:30 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@host86-132-123-16.range86-132.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:21:32 -!- disumu [~disumu@pD4B9E6BC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:22:52 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:23:01 Haha, seems like this image is kind of dead now... maye if I prefix with cl: 00:24:04 -!- sixpoint8 [~jaykub@ip68-12-204-131.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Rebooting the system. * Kicks yardy 249 on the way out *] 00:24:44 (cl:in-package :cl-user) 00:25:04 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-168.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:25:13 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-170-96.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 00:28:42 -!- chemuduguntar [~user@smtp.touchcut.com] has left #lisp 00:30:36 -!- longshot [~longshot@216.131.74.24] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:30:54 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:31:13 longshot [~longshot@180.184.11.66] has joined #lisp 00:32:13 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-139-120.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:32:36 -!- longshot [~longshot@180.184.11.66] has quit [Client Quit] 00:34:42 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:35:27 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.15.242] has joined #lisp 00:39:05 wolfbytes [~wolfbytes@c-24-125-60-18.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:39:17 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-67-153.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:42:38 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:44:44 cinch [~cinch@85-127-97-42.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 00:46:30 -!- HDurer_home [~holly@pdpc/supporter/active/hdurer] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:46:56 mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:47:03 HDurer_home [~holly@home.sinclair-durer.net] has joined #lisp 00:48:42 pnq [~nick@AC815446.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 00:50:13 Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has joined #lisp 00:58:30 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:58:34 powerje [~powerj@adsl-75-49-4-247.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:59:33 m4thrick_ [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 00:59:49 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-065.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:00:53 GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-26-27.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:01:55 -!- m4thrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:02:14 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:07:22 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@host230.190-3-1.static.telmex.net.ar] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 01:08:12 -!- fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:08:36 jimrthy [~jimrthy@ip68-13-249-220.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:15:24 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:15:42 Hmm, do you know of a good sha1 implementation in CL that can be used on a file (i.e. the input message is not already completely in memory)? 01:15:58 I know about ironclad, I'm looking for something that can be extracted from its supporting framework a little more easily. 01:16:22 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Quit:] 01:16:33 the sha1 in art obrezan's mysql library is only for in-memory stuff. maybe it will be easy to adapt. 01:19:07 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:21:02 -!- mheld [~mheld@c-75-69-89-109.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 01:28:01 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-9-4.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:28:11 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-20-39.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:28:54 -!- eugu [~eugene@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:29:36 -!- jlf [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:30:51 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-39-134.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:33:00 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-181-8.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:34:14 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.48.220] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:34:36 -!- SsvRrwQ [~user@S0106001c1122940c.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:36:28 sellout- [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:37:30 13 01:39:00 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:39:05 longshot [~longshot@180.184.11.66] has joined #lisp 01:39:09 -!- sellout- is now known as sellout 01:43:37 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Exeunt IRC] 01:44:11 Xach: google finds cl-sha1. 01:44:12 kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has joined #lisp 01:44:47 But that also seems to be in memory. And based on Art Obrezan's version. 01:45:12 heh, right. 01:46:40 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:46:45 Looks like it would take some work to make it work on streams. 01:46:53 -!- mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:47:50 Ironclad is cool. I do wish it were a bit more modular so you could just grab the one thing you needed. 01:48:07 Right. 01:49:05 *Xach* needs SHA1 for PGP 01:49:17 *Xach* wants it small enough to stick in the bootstrap file 01:49:26 DONKEYS_GALORE [~njb@c-66-235-32-232.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 01:51:38 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:52:09 sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:52:28 Isn't sha1 broken now? 01:55:29 madsen [~Zhang.Sen@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has joined #lisp 01:55:48 rtoym: no 01:56:21 No? Ok. My memory isn't what it used to be. :-) 01:56:58 Xach: no love for ironclad? boo 01:58:11 froydnj: I love it! But I need some code I can put in a single file. ironclad's sha1 is cozy with its support structure. 01:58:23 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 01:58:49 it's more important to me for it to be short than fast 01:58:54 SsvRrwQ [~user@S0106001c1122940c.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:59:18 yeah, true 01:59:53 I have ideas on how to split up ironclad into finer-grained pieces, but I have not done any lisp hacking lately 02:00:29 talk to your new corporate overlords. maybe they can schedule some time for it. 02:00:50 somehow I think hacking on a CL crypto library is not high on their priority list 02:04:14 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@114.240.88.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:14:23 DanLentz [~danlentz@c-68-32-54-29.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:14:38 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.52.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:14:42 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:16:18 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.152.51] has joined #lisp 02:16:28 -!- xan_ [~xan@26.Red-88-24-228.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:17:28 sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:17:31 sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has joined #lisp 02:20:02 -!- lnostdal [~Lars@218.80-202-49.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:23:04 phaer [~user@chello080108090109.9.11.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 02:25:31 -!- DanLentz [~danlentz@c-68-32-54-29.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 02:25:43 mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:27:01 What exactly does "#p" mean, when one uses a pathname in common lisp like #p"/home/phaer"? 02:27:18 rtoy [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 02:27:55 jlf [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has joined #lisp 02:28:08 phaer: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhn.htm 02:29:08 mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:30:31 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 02:30:37 Xach: Thanks, but if i understand it correctly it's not a function. What does the sharp do? Is this some sort of a macro? 02:31:15 phaer: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/02_dh.htm 02:32:00 Xach: You are the best hyperspec search i've used so far! 02:32:01 rtoym: Or extend Ironclad. I would like to make Tiger2 hash functions. 02:32:25 bpalmer [~user@unaffiliated/bpalmer] has joined #lisp 02:33:18 minion: logs? 02:33:29 phaer: i use http://xach.com/clhs 02:33:30 minion: Where are you?!?!? 02:33:39 phaer: i typed in "#p" first and "#" next 02:33:58 peterhil: extending ironclad should be straightforward, though it's not documented 02:34:11 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.103.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:34:15 I use xach.com/clhs too. It's a great service, and I really appreciate Xach providing that. 02:34:50 Xach: bookmarked. 02:34:54 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Client Quit] 02:35:45 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.98.239] has joined #lisp 02:37:02 It works even better if you make clhs a smart bookmark in firefox. 02:39:37 *Xach* also sets up a "search engine" with it in chrome 02:39:45 madsen1 [~Zhang.Sen@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has joined #lisp 02:40:11 -!- madsen [~Zhang.Sen@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:44:17 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:46:58 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: night, all!] 02:48:14 -!- ace4016 [~ace4016@adsl-32-9-26.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:48:37 ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-32-9-26.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:50:09 -!- DONKEYS_GALORE [~njb@c-66-235-32-232.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:51:28 What I'm doing wrong here with the arguments? http://paste.lisp.org/display/117506 02:51:41 Tries are objects now 02:52:02 froydnj: Ok, haven't much looked into it yet. 02:52:54 I'm getting "Odd number of keyword arguments" error, and using allow-other-keys does not seem to help. 02:53:39 Trying to use sort-trie fails on runtime with "odd number of &KEY arguments", but sort-trie-branch works 02:55:00 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-32-9-26.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:55:11 ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-32-9-26.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:58:07 I've forgotten how &rest interacts with &key.... 02:58:52 cch` [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 02:58:59 *adu* goes to &key &west 02:59:12 peterhil: you have to apply it 02:59:36 peterhil: (apply #'sort-trie ... args) 02:59:46 Xach: Ok, that I didn't try yet... 03:00:10 oconnore [~eric@ip68-225-113-244.mc.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:00:17 -!- phaer [~user@chello080108090109.9.11.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:01:57 TraumaPwny [~TraumaPon@203-214-101-123.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 03:02:17 -!- TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@124-171-205-49.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Disconnected by services] 03:02:20 -!- TraumaPwny is now known as TraumaPony 03:04:47 Argh, I give up. Games are not my thing. 03:07:32 tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-68-51-118-114.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:07:32 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-118-114.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:07:33 -!- tritchey_ is now known as tritchey 03:08:02 I even broke swank trying. 03:08:44 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 03:09:22 tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-68-51-118-114.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:09:22 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-118-114.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:09:23 -!- tritchey_ is now known as tritchey 03:09:55 -!- tvaalen [~r@unaffiliated/tvaal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:11:33 Xach: Thanks. So the difference between funcall and apply is that apply flattens the arguments list? 03:13:34 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:13:40 sort of 03:15:03 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/26_glo_s.htm#spreadable_argument_list_designator 03:17:08 I read that, but didn't understand at first. So the last element of the argument list is a list collected by &rest 03:17:14 -!- jweiss [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:17:52 ...or something like that. 03:19:29 I have to agree with peterhil here 03:19:47 jmckitrick [~user@adsl-92-243-131.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:20:04 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:20:14 -!- madsen1 [~Zhang.Sen@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:20:16 madsen [~Zhang.Sen@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has joined #lisp 03:20:19 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl21-89-222.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:20:30 superflit [~superflit@70.99.98.170] has joined #lisp 03:20:33 The spec kind-of-sort-of makes a vague bit of sense, but...how does it actually affect me? 03:20:39 -!- jmckitrick [~user@adsl-92-243-131.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:21:02 Mayate [c9a0f27e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.201.160.242.126] has joined #lisp 03:21:09 Tired of niggers? 03:21:11 apply takes a spreadable argument list designator. 03:21:14 Sick of their monkeyshines? 03:21:14 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Xach 03:21:17 Not again... 03:21:18 -!- Xach has set mode +b *!*c9a0f27e@*.201.160.242.126 03:21:24 -!- Mayate [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has been kicked from #lisp by Xach (Mayate) 03:21:28 Good 03:21:32 -!- Xach has set mode -o Xach 03:21:35 Thanks 03:22:52 And thx for explaining how spreadable argument list designators, um, apply to apply. 03:23:42 It seems like that's where I the biggest disconnect with the spec...figuring out where the pegs actually fit into the holes 03:24:04 homie` [~user@xdsl-78-35-162-105.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:24:19 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-168.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 03:24:41 -!- madsen is now known as madsenz 03:25:59 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:26:32 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-135-44.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:27:14 -!- compmstr_ [~compmstr@adsl-074-185-008-197.sip.clt.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:27:21 compmstr_ [~compmstr@adsl-074-185-008-197.sip.clt.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:27:27 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-rvrvoztmqolcamnb] has joined #lisp 03:30:21 Snamich [~Snamich@75-128-11-42.dhcp.snlo.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 03:38:41 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:38:54 -!- GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-26-27.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:41:43 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:42:20 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-170-96.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:43:29 jimrthy: It helps to see things being used. The spec, like most specs, kind of assume you understand a lot already, because they're not written for beginners but for knowledgeable people. 03:44:33 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:45:46 :rtoym Exactly. I'm still trying to wrap my brain around the basics. gigamonkey's book helped a lot. Just bought Land of Lisp, hoping that'll make things more clear. Well, that and lurking on here 03:46:40 -!- oconnore [~eric@ip68-225-113-244.mc.at.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:46:42 Reading books and then reading other code really helps. 03:46:53 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-32-9-26.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:47:15 I think that reading CLTL2 can be helpful in understanding the hyperspec. 03:47:29 I'm trying to find a good balance between the two. 03:48:14 Oh, yeah. CLtL2 is pretty good for that. Still not as good as a book, but better in many ways than learning from the hyperspec. 03:48:23 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:48:40 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:48:44 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:48:53 ace4016 [~ace4016@adsl-32-9-26.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:48:58 Just added CLtL2 to my "immediate" reading list...thanks for the suggestion 03:49:21 Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has joined #lisp 03:50:38 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-168.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:51:11 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-20-39.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:51:40 -!- compmstr_ [~compmstr@adsl-074-185-008-197.sip.clt.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:52:43 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:52:45 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:54:25 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:54:37 -!- summersault [~george@189.107.132.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:54:46 *sanjoyd* is finding "On Lisp" quite interesting. 03:56:57 madsen [~Zhang.Sen@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has joined #lisp 03:57:47 -!- madsenz [~Zhang.Sen@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:03:18 Maybe I've learned enough to try tackling "On Lisp" again 04:03:31 -!- superflit [~superflit@70.99.98.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:04:05 Bah. OT but can someone point me to some good looking web forms. Everytime I make one, it looks terrible. 04:04:32 -!- madsen is now known as madsenz 04:06:43 oconnore [~eric@wsip-70-168-242-17.mc.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:06:54 http://designm.ag/resources/jquery-form-plugins/ 04:09:19 Thanks. 04:11:12 -!- jimrthy [~jimrthy@ip68-13-249-220.ok.ok.cox.net] has left #lisp 04:13:02 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 04:13:08 summersault [~george@189.107.132.152] has joined #lisp 04:17:34 Hi everyone! 04:19:04 -!- _8david [~user@port-92-195-112-216.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:19:49 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:21:41 onexused [~purple@unaffiliated/onexused] has joined #lisp 04:21:44 superflit [~superflit@70.99.98.170] has joined #lisp 04:23:15 I'm getting this backtrace: (SB-KERNEL::OBJECT-NOT-TYPE-ERROR-HANDLER # #.(SB-SYS:INT-SAP #X7FFFF3E370C8) # (405 21)) 04:24:32 I'm new to Lisp, trying to follow instructions from a Lisp book, using GNU CLISP. When I (load "file.lisp"), clisp complains "*** - EVAL: variable  has no value", but I don't see which one it's complaining about. How do I find out? 04:25:23 Ltk, is (I think) hiding the real problem. Any ideas how to locate the error? 04:27:52 onexused, are you using slime? 04:28:09 dr1: No. 04:28:51 -!- powerje [~powerj@adsl-75-49-4-247.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: powerje] 04:29:03 onexused, are you using emacs? 04:29:25 dr1, I'm using bare GNU CLISP, run from the command line with "clisp". 04:32:42 onexused, using slime with emacs makes learning lisp much easier. You would put your cursor on "load" and hit C-c Cd h to bring up the Hyperspec to show you how to use load. 04:33:39 I can install slime, but even 38MiB will take time to download on my connection, so it would be a while before I could use it. 04:33:57 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.98.239] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:33:58 Am I using load wrong, then? 04:35:59 onexused, did you open a data file before using load? 04:36:27 I did nothing before using load. 04:37:05 minion hyperspec load 04:37:20 Good morning everyone! 04:37:27 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.100.93] has joined #lisp 04:37:38 whoops! didn't work. 04:37:46 onexused: How big is the file? Can you lisppaste it? 04:37:54 beach, hi. 04:38:13 The the standard specify anything about the time complexity of length for a sequence? I'm writing a small program which manipulates a rather large string, and I'm wondering if I should store the length of the string somewhere or whether it is okay to call length on the string multiple number of times. 04:38:37 beach: No idea what lisppaste is, but I can pastebin it. It's just a tutorial file from a Lisp book. 04:38:38 sanjoyd: I don't believe the spec says anything but length of string should be O(1) 04:38:54 sanjoyd: it's a quality of implementation issue, but since strings are vectors you should expect O(1) 04:38:55 gigamonkey: thanks! Also, I loved PCL. 04:38:55 length of a list is O(N) 04:39:03 sanjoyd: glad to hear it! 04:39:11 onexused: http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp 04:39:25 adeht: thanks. 04:42:47 -!- summersault [~george@189.107.132.152] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:43:01 beach: I'm not sure if it worked. I just get http://paste.lisp.org/submit, which is a blank page. 04:43:39 onexused: Yeah, go to paste.lisp.org, look at recent pasts, find yours and give us the URL. 04:44:15 Ah. It sounded like it'd just send it to this channel. Is this better than other pastebin services, then? 04:44:33 onexused: It used to send it here, but it no longer does. 04:44:51 onexused: Someone is trying to find a solution to the spam problem. 04:45:04 Ah. http://paste.lisp.org/display/117512 04:46:22 onexused: There is a typo in there. *db instead of *db*. That could be it. 04:46:25 summersault [~george@189.107.132.152] has joined #lisp 04:47:11 -!- az [~az@p4FE4FE2D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:48:33 beach: Okay, I changed that and saved the file. However, I get the same error when I try to load the file. 04:49:00 -!- kmwallio [~kmwallio@host113-70.brownlie.fit.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:50:01 onexused: I can load it fine into SBCL, though it warns that the function prompt-read is undefined. 04:50:29 onexused: Are you sure you are loading the modified file? 04:51:00 I don't know what else I would be loading. I saved the file after I modified it. 04:51:12 onexused: try to filter out weird chars, e.g. tr -cd '\11\12\40-\176' < input.lisp > output.lisp 04:52:42 Oh, maybe the blank stuff is some weird character sequence, indeed. 04:53:27 adeht: That fixed it. Maybe I should look at the text editor I'm using. 04:53:28 -!- superflit [~superflit@70.99.98.170] has quit [Quit: superflit] 04:53:41 onexused: I recommend that you start using emacs with slime 04:54:27 az_ [~az@p4FE4FC12.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:54:27 I can look into that. I do understand emacs isn't the easiest thing to use. 04:54:40 onexused: Neither is Lisp. 04:54:50 onexused: ignore the rumors 04:55:06 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-24-4-147-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:55:46 onexused: in this matter, what counts is how easy/convenient _you_ should find it to use 04:55:57 Hmm, I suppose I shall try slime + emacs in ... 5 hours when the download finishes... 04:56:05 I see, adeht. 05:01:06 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:01:21 -!- cch` [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:01:58 (SB-KERNEL::OBJECT-NOT-TYPE-ERROR-HANDLER # What exactly does unavailable argument mean? 05:02:18 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.100.93] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:03:10 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:03:31 It means the argument was (probably) not used and was deleted by the compiler. 05:03:42 drl: you may want to try (declaim (debug 3)) and recompile 05:04:40 I do have a GUI text editor that I like and does not add whatever characters were filtered by the earlier tr command, but it doesn't know how to highlight Lisp. I assume slime does this? 05:04:43 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:04:56 onexused: slime does this - and more 05:05:24 -!- ace4016 [~ace4016@adsl-32-9-26.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:05:28 I thought emacs does the highlighting, not slime. 05:05:33 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.100.254] has joined #lisp 05:05:52 ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-32-9-26.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 05:05:53 onexused: see this.. http://xach.livejournal.com/130040.html 05:06:39 rtoym: yes, but slime has a fontifying-fu contrib 05:07:28 I guess I don't use that. Unless slime-fancy loads that. 05:07:39 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 05:07:40 it does 05:08:16 rtoym, thanks. 05:09:10 adeht, warning: unrecognized declaration (DEBUG 3) 05:09:13 tvaalen [~r@terminal.se] has joined #lisp 05:09:19 mbohun [~user@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 05:09:23 drl: (declaim (optimize (debug 3))) 05:12:03 dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:12:27 madsen [~Zhang.Sen@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has joined #lisp 05:12:45 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:13:17 -!- madsenz [~Zhang.Sen@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:13:43 http://imagebin.ca/view/jlly15.html emacs and common lisp on a tablet :) 05:14:59 adeht, thanks. declaim works now. But I still get the same error message. I think the ltk loop is preventing the debugger from showing the location of the error. 05:16:27 drl: the sb-kernel entries are usually not what you should be looking for.. try to find an entry that references your own code, then use `v' to go to that location (assuming the code came from a file) 05:17:04 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-32-9-26.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:18:14 ace4016 [~ace4016@adsl-32-9-26.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 05:20:31 -!- dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:22:06 apolyudov [~apolyudo@h-64-105-174-211.snvacaid.static.covad.net] has joined #lisp 05:23:13 avpolyudov [~avpolyudo@h-64-105-174-211.snvacaid.static.covad.net] has joined #lisp 05:23:43 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:24:48 -!- mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 05:27:38 dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:27:45 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:28:42 adeht, there seem to be no references to my own code. 05:30:43 -!- avpolyudov [~avpolyudo@h-64-105-174-211.snvacaid.static.covad.net] has left #lisp 05:30:51 -!- apolyudov [~apolyudo@h-64-105-174-211.snvacaid.static.covad.net] has left #lisp 05:39:20 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-168.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 05:42:20 -!- dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:42:55 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-221-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:47:55 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.100.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:49:40 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 05:49:55 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.100.254] has joined #lisp 05:51:16 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:51:36 snooble [~user@201.sub-75-204-52.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 05:51:43 hi 05:52:02 big channel 05:52:23 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 05:53:41 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:54:08 -!- snooble [~user@201.sub-75-204-52.myvzw.com] has left #lisp 05:55:39 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:55:40 -!- TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@203-214-101-123.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:55:40 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:55:40 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:55:40 -!- luis [~luis@nhop.r42.eu] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:55:40 -!- clog [nef@bespin.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:55:40 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:55:40 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:55:40 -!- starseeker [~starseeke@BZ.BZFLAG.BZ] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:55:40 -!- Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:55:40 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:55:40 -!- zvrba [~zvrba@anakin.ifi.uio.no] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:55:40 -!- quasi_ [u404@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xbbjttmcxglsrjql] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:57:03 TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@124-148-35-135.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 05:58:52 churib [~tg@dslc-082-082-115-169.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 05:59:36 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@137-15-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:59:49 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 05:59:49 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 05:59:49 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 05:59:49 luis [~luis@nhop.r42.eu] has joined #lisp 05:59:49 clog [nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 05:59:49 arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 05:59:49 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 05:59:49 starseeker [~starseeke@BZ.BZFLAG.BZ] has joined #lisp 05:59:49 Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 05:59:49 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 05:59:49 zvrba [~zvrba@anakin.ifi.uio.no] has joined #lisp 05:59:49 quasi_ [u404@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xbbjttmcxglsrjql] has joined #lisp 05:59:57 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 06:00:50 Welcome back, everybody! 06:01:54 cch` [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 06:02:12 mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:02:15 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 06:02:20 -!- seangrove [~user@70-36-236-168.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:02:37 -!- mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:03:51 -!- kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:04:23 -!- pdk [~realname@c-67-163-243-242.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:04:25 -!- pnq [~nick@AC815446.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:06:19 -!- cch` [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has left #lisp 06:06:34 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 06:08:48 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:09:28 lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 06:09:41 -!- mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:13:39 kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has joined #lisp 06:14:39 jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-208.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:15:22 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 06:18:25 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 06:24:59 -!- rokstar [~rokstar@d221-90-121.commercial.cgocable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:26:14 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.100.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:26:28 rokstar [~rokstar@d221-90-121.commercial.cgocable.net] has joined #lisp 06:27:12 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.104.76] has joined #lisp 06:27:20 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-208.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:28:28 mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:33:57 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 06:34:34 -!- mitre [~chatzilla@fl-74-4-76-189.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:34:50 mitre [~chatzilla@fl-74-4-76-189.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 06:47:41 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:47:55 So what is/was the spam problem with lisppaste? Just spammers pasting their spam and getting the link to the paste announced here? 06:48:36 something like that 06:48:58 the title of the paste was spam itself 06:54:05 -!- madsen [~Zhang.Sen@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:54:11 madsen [~Zhang.Sen@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has joined #lisp 06:54:25 -!- eldragon [~eldragon@84.79.67.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:55:19 do they still do that with the sophisticated captcha? 06:55:23 -!- madsen [~Zhang.Sen@n11z181l194.static.ctm.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:56:20 -!- az_ [~az@p4FE4FC12.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 06:57:16 az [~az@p4FE4FC12.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:58:09 eldragon [~eldragon@84.79.67.254] has joined #lisp 07:00:02 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-230-134.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:00:38 mishoo [~mishoo@host212-104-dynamic.51-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 07:00:58 -!- Salamander__ is now known as Salamander 07:01:18 adeht: no. Therefore I would move we let lisppaste announce again. 07:01:34 Otherwise there's no motivation to use lisppaste over any other random paste board. 07:01:48 Seems like if we hooked up a sam filter we have plenty of folks sitting around who could immediately train the filter if some spam got through. 07:01:51 Without that link, you could as well stop it. 07:01:55 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-39-134.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:02:14 pjb: I like the lisppaste highlighting 07:02:39 adeht: for most use it doesn't matter: you just get the raw code and try it out in your own cl to help the guy. 07:02:52 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-221-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:02:53 -!- bpalmer [~user@unaffiliated/bpalmer] has left #lisp 07:02:55 pjb: that's not my experience 07:02:56 Did spammers use nicks of folks actually in the channnel? 07:03:13 That'd be a valid filter indeed. 07:04:56 it's easy to circumvent 07:05:21 One of the nice things about my spam filtering library is it can use arbitrary "features" of the thing being filtered. So "is-nick-present-in-channel" could be a feature. And if it turns out, as we all suspect it would, that pastes with nicks not in the channel, are more likely to be spam then it would figure that out. 07:05:53 But it would just be one test, along with more obvious features such as words that only appear in spam, etc. 07:06:54 i don't remember any spam after that one 07:07:09 lisppaste in #sbcl announces pastes 07:07:27 lambda-avenger [~roman@adsl-99-40-54-104.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:07:40 -!- lambda-avenger [~roman@adsl-99-40-54-104.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:08:19 i'd better see auto-reconnect for the bots, because they're annoyingly often not present 07:08:29 lambda-avenger [~roman@adsl-99-40-54-104.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:11:18 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 07:13:38 Heh. On my Code Quarterly website I set a cookie when you visit the main page and then the presense of that cookie when you post in the comments section is a feature that the spam filter can see. Looks like that's the only feature I'd need to check to filter out spam. 07:14:18 oops, now everybody knows 07:14:34 We'll see. 07:14:40 daniel__ [~daniel@p5082B197.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:15:02 kriyative [~user@ip70-181-85-174.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:15:18 So you couldn't have a bookmark to the paste page, then? Because that would be annoying. Or am I misunderstanding? 07:16:08 onexused: well, I'm not talking about a cookie for the paste page. 07:16:20 before spam i was using xml-rpc client for emacs, ah, good ol' days 07:16:41 But if there was a cookie set somewhere and you had a bookmark, the browser would send the cookie even when you used the bookmark. 07:16:58 I thought you were suggesting something for lisppaste, but maybe I shouldn't take part in a discussion I'm paying no attention to : ) 07:17:10 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.104.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:17:30 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.96.234] has joined #lisp 07:17:45 flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has joined #lisp 07:17:46 -!- flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has quit [Changing host] 07:17:46 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 07:18:05 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082B196.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:20:40 minsa [~minsa@c-24-5-121-157.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 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[~nathan@123-243-214-176.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 10:26:23 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 10:28:49 mishoo [~mishoo@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 10:30:29 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@123.123.4.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:33:56 -!- lambda-avenger [~roman@adsl-99-40-54-104.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:35:59 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 10:37:32 -!- jhuni [~jhuni@udp217774uds.hawaiiantel.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:38:28 Joreji [~thomas@85-065.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 10:38:56 mahmul [~mrw@user-0can1en.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 10:43:39 flip214: no problem 10:44:50 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-216-214.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:45:12 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-rvrvoztmqolcamnb] has left #lisp 10:45:44 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.97.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:45:49 lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-58-170.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 10:46:19 Xach: do you know that there are compilation warnings on quicklisp? 10:46:43 Are you interested in a paste? 10:47:35 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.105.163] has joined #lisp 10:48:11 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-065.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:51:46 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-75-154.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 10:52:07 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 10:52:10 -!- mahmul [~mrw@user-0can1en.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 10:52:40 flip214: what CL? 10:52:46 sbcl 10:53:11 no need to paste 10:54:19 ok 10:54:30 dfox_ [~dfox@ip-213-220-225-182.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 10:55:30 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@115.242.117.62] has joined #lisp 10:55:30 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@115.242.117.62] has quit [Changing host] 10:55:30 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 10:55:48 -!- kaemo [~mad5ci@d38-66.icpnet.pl] has left #lisp 10:56:13 ramkrsna_ [~ramkrsna@115.242.117.62] has joined #lisp 10:56:24 -!- ramkrsna_ [~ramkrsna@115.242.117.62] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:00:02 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-170-96.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 11:02:47 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-139-85.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 11:02:59 Xach: do you have plans to include Elephant in ql? 11:03:39 oconnore: Yes. It recently changed in a way that makes it easier to include. 11:04:13 ok, thanks 11:04:26 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:07:07 sabalaba [~sabalaba@114.246.154.246] has joined #lisp 11:11:23 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:13:31 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:16:53 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.105.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:18:36 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.98.112] has joined #lisp 11:24:32 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:24:50 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 11:28:19 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:28:33 Joreji [~thomas@85-065.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:29:56 tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 11:31:56 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.113.184.8] has joined #lisp 11:41:43 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@114.246.154.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:43:35 -!- abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:44:05 abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 11:44:42 Genosh [~Genosh@153.Red-88-24-212.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:54:32 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:56:01 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 12:04:00 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.98.112] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:06:04 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.97.250] has joined #lisp 12:09:14 Yuuhi [benni@p54839F93.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:09:43 -!- Genosh [~Genosh@153.Red-88-24-212.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:10:17 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:10:49 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 12:11:19 charliekilo [~charlieki@pool-96-236-149-254.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:12:54 -!- longshot [~longshot@180.184.11.66] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:13:00 Is there a cffi function which is like C's & operator? 12:13:11 Imk0tter [Imk0tter@ool-45794016.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 12:13:13 ow would I go about exporting a bianry tree to a file, to then be re-built upon import (given all the pointers) 12:13:16 longshot [~longshot@216.131.74.24] has joined #lisp 12:13:36 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@114.93.130.227] has joined #lisp 12:14:16 tcr: no, that's not the way that cffi works 12:14:30 So what do I do with a (:pointer (:pointer foo))? 12:14:42 longshot_ [~longshot@180.184.11.66] has joined #lisp 12:14:50 If I want to access one of foo's slot? 12:15:16 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 12:16:09 I must be misunderstanding -- to access one of foo's slots means to do the inverse of what you asked for, i.e. *, not & 12:16:30 tcr: (foreign-slot-value (mem-ref double-ptr :pointer) 'struct 'slot) 12:17:11 pdk [~realname@c-67-163-243-242.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:17:26 lichtblau: In C, I'd start with a struct foo *f; and pass &f to the function 12:17:45 -!- longshot [~longshot@216.131.74.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:17:45 -!- longshot_ is now known as longshot 12:17:57 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 12:18:12 tcr: in Cffi you always start with a foo** and can only dereference 12:18:15 fe[nl]ix: makes sense, thanks. 12:18:26 I'm still confused: what function? 12:18:38 the one I'm trying to write lisp bindings for 12:20:11 Imk0tter: Use print. 12:20:12 ignotus [~ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has joined #lisp 12:20:24 Imk0tter: (and then read) 12:20:56 lichtblau: in C, when you have an in-out pointer arg, you do: foo *ptr = NULL; foo_alloc(&ptr); 12:20:58 okay. the equivalent of { struct foo *f; yourfun(&f); ... use f ...} is (with-foreign-object (&f :pointer) (yourfun &f) (let ((f (cffi:mem-ref &f :pointer))) ... use f ...)) 12:21:26 fe[nl]ix: sure, I just wasn't certain whether that is actually what tcr is asking for. Perhaps I was missing context. 12:23:28 hi, I seem to remember that there is a way to specify to format directives which argument to use, so they don't have to be in order, like (format nil "~?A ~?A" 1 2) => 2 1, but I can't find it now 12:24:09 lichtblau: cffi is just confusing at first because there's no & 12:24:37 indeed, this certainly seems to be in top three cffi newbie questions. 12:25:04 some time ago I liked this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/112543 12:25:24 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.54.248] has joined #lisp 12:25:26 Interesting. 12:25:57 lichtblau: any second thoughts in the meantime? 12:26:53 ignotus: See ~* 12:27:02 beach: checking 12:27:20 -!- pdk [~realname@c-67-163-243-242.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:28:25 beach: thanks that did it, now I have (format nil "~1@*~A ~0@*~A" 1 2) => "2 1" 12:29:02 lichtblau: I like it, feels obvious. 12:30:15 hepek [~hepek@cable-89-216-25-79.static.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 12:30:38 -!- charliekilo [~charlieki@pool-96-236-149-254.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: charliekilo] 12:30:41 petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 12:30:43 -!- hepek [~hepek@cable-89-216-25-79.static.sbb.rs] has left #lisp 12:30:49 Now with-foreign-object (&f :pointer), &f will be a SAP, albeit DX. Now I want a SAP that lives on the heap. 12:31:00 Related, what does (foreign-alloc :pointer) allocate? 12:31:19 tcr: 8 bytes or whatever that can hold a pointer. 12:31:40 Well I want to have a SAP I can rely on to be GCd 12:32:42 tcr: how so? Do want the memory it points to to be freed automatically? 12:33:01 foo(struct foo **f, struct bar **b)  I'd envision the lisp function to return two pointers to the foo and bar structs 12:35:04 tcr: the way to do that currently is to write your wrapper by hand. It'd certainly be nice if DEFCFUN supported those kinds of patterns, no doubt. 12:35:16 yeah but how 12:35:40 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:35:41 I can not return &f and &b when those come from with-foreign-object 12:35:56 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-170-96.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:36:34 Ah, I see. Well, yeah, you gotta use foreign-alloc instead of with-foreign-object. 12:36:50 No, hold on. 12:36:51 gozek [~quassel@85.52.166.111] has joined #lisp 12:36:54 but then the caller has to foreign-free that one! 12:37:04 tcr: foo() allocates the structs, right? 12:37:16 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 12:37:28 Not necessarily, how does it matter? 12:38:04 It could be allocated in bulk before, and it merely returns a pointer to a so-far unused one 12:38:14 so (defun foo () (with-foreign-objects ((f :pointer) (b :pointer)) (%foo f b) (values (mem-ref f :pointer) (mem-ref b :pointer)))) 12:38:22 isn't that what you want? 12:39:35 so what will (mem-ref f :pointer) be; conceptually it will be a pointer to foreign-struct foo; how will the pointer be represented? 12:39:52 it's a SAP 12:40:00 cool 12:40:06 thanks :-) 12:40:28 Lorre5811 [Lorre5811@d54C4741E.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 12:40:31 -!- Lorre5811 [Lorre5811@d54C4741E.access.telenet.be] has left #lisp 12:40:43 no second thoughts; I still like it. I don't recall actually using it though, it's just something that came up on IRC. In my own code I've always been content writing the pattern out manually. 12:40:54 pointer arithmetic with foreign-alloc/mem-ref can indeed be confusing. 12:41:33 The co-existence of SAPs and (foreign-alloc :pointer) seems to need careful examination 12:41:51 because one time you have a point the GC takes care of, the other time you have to take care of the pointer 12:44:01 -!- Hun [~Hun@80.81.19.29] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:45:12 jmckitrick [~user@adsl-92-243-131.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 12:45:21 -!- jmckitrick [~user@adsl-92-243-131.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:49:29 -!- ignas [~ignas@88-222-145-120.meganet.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:49:34 -!- cnl [~cnl@78.31.74.25] has quit [K-Lined] 12:51:49 hmm is there a format directive for printing numbers like 3000 => "3,000" 12:52:19 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-065.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:53:05 it's in the nature of an FFI that it talks about data in foreign memory. cl:double-float co-exists with (foreign-alloc :double). cl:integer co-exists with (foreign-alloc :int). sap co-exists with (foreign-alloc :pointer). That doesn't make either of those redundant. 12:53:32 ah, there is (format nil "~:D" 3000) => "3,000" 12:53:42 lichtblau: true 12:53:57 it's a nightmare to find info about format in clhs:-o 12:54:37 ignotus: just go to the format paage, and follow the link to the 22.something section. 12:55:06 ignotus: One way is to read through all of it at a weekend, and try all the options out. Afterwards you will have some faint feeling what format supports on next occasion 12:57:23 prokos [~prokos@173.200.233.195] has joined #lisp 12:57:25 yeah, the problem is that I always forget the recipes and it's frustrating looking thru the 22.3 section for that little tidbit :) although it is still thousand times better than doing that functionality by hand thou 12:58:00 also, it's merely a cmucl/sbcl oddity that SAPs exist with their own widetag. On allegro, you use integers as pointers, which I find to be a nice way of thinking about this. (Not that it makes a practical difference whether you have saps or not; they are just tiny bignums by another name as far as the compiler is concerned.) 12:58:13 -!- emma is now known as em 12:58:17 The non-:c allocations in allegro are another matter, of course. 12:58:31 lichtblau: representation and stack issues also. 12:59:29 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:01:27 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:01:57 ignas [~ignas@88-222-145-120.meganet.lt] has joined #lisp 13:02:49 powerje [~powerj@adsl-75-49-4-247.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:03:15 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:03:30 mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:04:37 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:05:30 fe[nl]ix: You mus have thought about it and refused to do it, so what's the reason that you don't just ship non-groveller toplevel-forms in the generated .lisp file? (e.g. after you READ the form in, get the file-position, so you know start and end of the form so you can it in as text at output it verbatim) 13:06:04 so you can output it as text verbatim 13:07:15 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.97.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:07:56 Might be confusing because it wouldn't follow CL's compilation/evaluation model of course 13:08:48 -!- powerje [~powerj@adsl-75-49-4-247.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: powerje] 13:08:50 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.107.223] has joined #lisp 13:11:35 jweiss [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:11:36 kanru [~kanru@61-228-158-122.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:12:29 tfb [~tfb@92.41.240.193.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 13:16:32 the purpose of the groveler is to gather information about C types and macros and create appropriate definitions for them 13:17:13 if something(like defining foreign functions) can be easily done some other way, I'd rather not add that feature to the groveler 13:17:48 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 13:18:27 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 13:23:07 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:24:42 Speaking of foreign functions, I tried to get subversion bindings in sbcl ... 13:25:04 but swig alone didn't seem to do it for me, and I haven't bothered trying CFFI/UFFI or whatever 13:25:27 Part of the challenge is that subversions needs callbacks, ie. wants to call lisp functions 13:25:57 And the typedefs are cumbersome, too 13:28:02 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:29:01 i haven't had a problem with callbacks yet 13:29:05 mk2 [~user@159.92.65.57] has joined #lisp 13:29:51 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 13:29:59 H4ns [~user@p579F85E0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:30:05 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has left #lisp 13:30:12 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 13:31:18 Well, I'll have to try again, I guess.... 13:32:53 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-78-35-162-105.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:38:10 flip214: CFFI supports callbacks. 13:38:24 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:38:26 yes, thank you. I still have to make it work ;-) 13:40:52 Hi, where do I have to copy a DLL so that SBCL's load-shared-object finds it? The lisp runs in slime. I tried the path containing the source file, the one containing sbcl.exe, the one containing emacs.exe and the three paths C:/{,Windows/System{,32}}. It always complains: "Error opening shared object "atmcd32d.dll": 126.". 13:42:00 mtk [~mtk@ool-182c8e6c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 13:42:06 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:43:13 mk2: did you search for windows error 126 and follow some of the advice given? 13:44:11 "If a game is experiencing Windows error 126, try reinstalling the game." 13:44:18 :-) 13:44:33 red1ynx [~Dzmitry@46.56.204.21] has joined #lisp 13:46:18 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:52:30 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.107.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:52:33 H4ns: Thanks. That helped. I learned that this error also occurs if other dependent libraries are missing. It works, when I copy all dll's to the sbcl.exe path. 13:54:04 mk2: tools from http://technet.microsoft.com/sysinternals might help you diagnose such problems on windows (i.e. you could log what files your sbcl tries to open and then probably see what dll it does not find and where it looks) 13:54:08 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.96.15] has joined #lisp 13:54:51 skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #lisp 13:54:55 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@218.238.3.145] has joined #lisp 13:55:24 -!- skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has left #lisp 13:58:17 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:58:58 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 14:00:42 H4ns: Cool. 14:01:15 -!- minsa [~minsa@c-24-5-121-157.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:05:15 barceloona [~user@95.214.56.45] has joined #lisp 14:09:35 -!- mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:09:55 -!- baley [~baley@87.229.24.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:10:32 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 14:11:00 sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:11:07 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-174.mirrorimage.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:11:27 hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-174.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 14:12:53 baley [~baley@87.229.24.201] has joined #lisp 14:12:58 sabalaba [~sabalaba@123.123.5.42] has joined #lisp 14:13:45 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 14:13:54 -!- ignotus [~ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has left #lisp 14:14:48 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 14:22:00 -!- mk2 [~user@159.92.65.57] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:23:04 -!- gozek [~quassel@85.52.166.111] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:29:03 xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@114.93.130.227] has joined #lisp 14:29:03 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@114.93.130.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:29:10 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 14:29:20 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 14:29:20 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 14:30:09 Gmind [~Welcome@113.190.171.11] has joined #lisp 14:30:27 so, finally... an important goal is reached! http://i.imgur.com/6pWsk.png 14:30:36 that's not just Qt tutorial running on N900 14:30:41 that is great! 14:30:43 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@123.123.5.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:30:46 it's CommonQt tutorial running on N900! 14:30:47 :) 14:30:58 ivan4th: sweet! 14:31:23 ivan4th: is it fast enough? 14:32:26 eats 100% cpu while the projectile is moving, other than that, didn't see any problems yet 14:32:45 BTW, after lastest CCL ARM FFI fixes, almost all CFFI tests pass there except DEFCFUN.BFF* which fail due to bugs in these tests themselves (char is unsigned on ARM by default) 14:33:06 all tests pass = not counting expected failures 14:33:40 -!- Jabberwockey [~jgrabarsk@selene.ftk.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:33:45 building kdebindings sucked profoundly though... did it in scratchbox, had to patch makefiles :( 14:34:11 had to build libcommonqt.so in scratchbox too 14:34:34 can you compile the C++ version http://doc.trolltech.com/4.3/tutorial-t14.html and compare the projectile speed? 14:35:14 lichtblau: I'll be back in about 15-20 min, will try it 14:35:37 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-162-105.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:36:39 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-24-4-147-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:50 HG` [~HG@xdslfd179.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 14:39:17 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 14:39:20 Cooler_ [~sabayonus@189-68-174-20.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 14:39:43 drdo` [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 14:40:20 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:42:26 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:42:28 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-158-218.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:42:49 Jabberwockey [~jgrabarsk@selene.ftk.de] has joined #lisp 14:43:01 drdo`` [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 14:43:44 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.96.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:44:41 -!- drdo` [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:44:45 sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has joined #lisp 14:45:39 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.107.62] has joined #lisp 14:46:53 ivan4th: can you report that :char issue in launchpad? 14:47:59 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:50:39 luis: will do it a little bit later. basically in bff funcs in libtest.c plain 'char' should be changed to 'signed char' 14:51:15 (sum_127_no_ll, sum_127) 14:53:02 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-tvviwtwwindasnwi] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:53:29 -!- ignas [~ignas@88-222-145-120.meganet.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:54:25 -!- benny [~benny@i577A3937.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:56:16 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:58:59 ivan4th: On the Lisp side, does :char mean signed char in CCL/ARM? 15:00:13 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:00:36 -!- retrry [~quassel@b4.vu.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:00:49 retrry [~quassel@b4.vu.lt] has joined #lisp 15:01:44 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:02:02 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:06:18 morphling [~stefan@95.117.101.95] has joined #lisp 15:06:37 -!- kanru [~kanru@61-228-158-122.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:07:17 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 15:07:42 -!- barceloona [~user@95.214.56.45] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:12:35 lnostdal [~Lars@218.80-202-49.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 15:12:51 Quadrescence: site down? 15:14:06 milanj [~milanj_@77-46-174-202.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 15:15:15 -!- jlf [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:21:25 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 15:25:38 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:25:55 -!- rootzlevel [~hpd@91-66-218-51-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:26:22 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 15:27:46 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:29:45 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw501177.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:29:46 -!- Gmind [~Welcome@113.190.171.11] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:29:50 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279775309.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:30:05 Gmind [~Welcome@113.190.171.11] has joined #lisp 15:31:12 iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-150-188.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 15:31:41 -!- Gmind [~Welcome@113.190.171.11] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:31:49 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-139-85.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:33:23 -!- abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:33:30 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.54.248] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:33:31 -!- mitre [~chatzilla@fl-74-4-76-189.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:34:13 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-ooyqjbxdnspvnqya] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:34:33 luis: yes it does 15:35:54 I'm not sure whether it's correct behavior... 15:36:03 charliekilo [~charlieki@pool-96-236-149-254.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:36:25 -!- ace4016 [~ace4016@adsl-32-9-26.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:36:42 ska` [~user@ppp-58-8-103-186.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 15:37:26 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 15:37:40 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:39:19 mk2 [~user@159.92.65.57] has joined #lisp 15:39:23 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 15:40:29 -!- Jabberwockey [~jgrabarsk@selene.ftk.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:41:20 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:43:08 ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-32-16-123.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 15:43:35 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 15:44:05 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279775309.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 15:45:28 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-162-105.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:46:34 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-171-89.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:47:00 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-171-89.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:48:03 Xach: you mean symbo1ics? Yeah seems to be. My host changed servers a few weeks ago and the new server guy seems to not know how to manage well. 15:48:29 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-67-153.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:50:23 ivan4th: yeah, it should probably match C's char. The bright side is that CFFI does expect :char to be signed. 15:50:53 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-171-89.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:51:04 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-221-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:56:40 s1ugg0 [~chrish@net-216-37-86-189.in-addr.worldspice.net] has joined #lisp 15:56:45 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:59:36 barandis [~thomas@66.208.14.74] has joined #lisp 16:01:16 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-116-252.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:03:06 morning 16:04:46 hi slyrus 16:05:20 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-139-85.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 16:09:07 kmwallio [~kmwallio@host113-70.brownlie.fit.edu] has joined #lisp 16:09:26 sonnym [~evissecer@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has joined #lisp 16:11:06 urandom__ [~user@p548A7F43.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:11:33 Xach: Thanks for the suggestion re: int64-to-uint64. 16:11:41 ... I just saw it. 16:13:03 mitre [~chatzilla@204.51.92.251] has joined #lisp 16:14:05 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:14:57 apb [~apb@p54A919DB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:15:14 -!- apb [~apb@p54A919DB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit] 16:15:26 Xach: seems to be back up 16:15:36 Xach: also I have a request for le Vecto 16:16:31 jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-208.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:16:32 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 16:16:48 Good evening everyone! 16:16:52 ymasory [~ymasory@grok.psych.upenn.edu] has joined #lisp 16:16:55 Quadrescence: spill it. 16:16:57 good morning beach 16:16:59 so, slime will soon grow itself a slime-cover model, for displaying code-coverage results 16:17:48 That sounds nice! No browser necessary? 16:17:54 beach: that is right 16:18:23 Jonathon McKitrick sent me some code for it, and i'm applying my skills at making it better 16:18:32 Xach: Implement cornu spirals/curves as described by Raph Levien (PhD on it: http://www.levien.com/phd/thesis.pdf ; very simple C code with a little Cairo GUI to play with the curves: http://www.levien.com/spiro/ ) 16:18:35 -!- HG` [~HG@xdslfd179.osnanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:19:18 Xach: They are much, much more intuitive than Bezier curves (highly recommend downloading the C code / compiling / running it, you'll definitely see the difference in constructing curves if you've ever done beziers) 16:19:25 *Xach* used to talk to raph quite a bit in his previous life as a gimp nerd 16:19:26 and it's currently working only on sbcl, but i think adding CCL support will be easy 16:19:44 Xach: cool :) 16:19:49 schme [~marcus@c83-254-196-92.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 16:19:49 -!- schme [~marcus@c83-254-196-92.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Changing host] 16:19:49 schme [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 16:19:54 apb [~apb@p54A919DB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:20:01 Quadrescence: they're nicer interactively, for sure. do you have some cornu data in a file you want to draw? 16:20:57 Xach: Not some immediately, but I prefer to draw cornu data over bezier. I think spiro even saves the cornu data in sexp format 16:21:08 lichtblau: as of now, c++ version of t14 seems to be 2-3 times faster that lisp one (it eats 100% cpu too though). BTW, ccl process (armcl) with qt, qt-repl and t14 loaded has RSS of just 43 Mb, I expected it to be bigger... 16:21:40 Xach: Anyway, no urgency. Just a feature request. :) 16:22:41 (His thesis was on cornu spirals? I thought he was doing trust metrics with advogato as the basis...) 16:22:50 stassats: nice! 16:23:12 Xach: He had a thesis before that which was left incomplete 16:23:48 "You may also be interested in a draft of an earlier attempt at a PhD, on Attack-Resistant Trust Metrics. The best source for that work is the chapter in Computing with Social Trust." 16:26:28 -!- reb [~user@nat/google/x-aazxmhxqwlqbbthl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:29:05 -!- Imk0tter [Imk0tter@ool-45794016.dyn.optonline.net] has left #lisp 16:29:38 zhulikas [zhulikas@3e6b7b31.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #lisp 16:29:45 hey 16:30:24 npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has joined #lisp 16:30:25 is it hard to draw fractal geometry in lisp? for a beginner. 16:31:35 no, lisp even has complex numbers! 16:31:40 -!- mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 16:32:12 Isn't everything hard for a beginner? Including beginning? 16:32:23 zhulikas: http://paste.lisp.org/+2ION 16:33:18 rtoym, I always wanted to draw some fractals and learn Lisp. I think I can combine both of them into one exercise :) 16:33:28 sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:33:36 zhulikas: http://www.xach.com/lisp/zpng/#sect-examples 16:34:04 -!- apb [~apb@p54A919DB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:34:28 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:34:32 clhs equal 16:34:40 http://l1sp.org/cl/equal 16:34:52 -!- H4ns [~user@p579F85E0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:35:02 ch077179 [~urs@adsl-84-227-56-82.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 16:35:57 is that equal for me? 16:36:07 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 16:36:43 ok, thanks 16:38:05 ivan4th: the timer fires every 5ms. If the Lisp appears 2-3 times slower, it means that CCL needs 10-15 ms to redraw. 16:38:09 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 16:38:43 So the the C++ version is much faster than 5ms, whereas the Lisp fails at redrawing within a timer interval. 16:39:03 Can you try changing the ->start(5) to ->start(0) in both Lisp and C++, and compare times again? 16:39:35 C++ is faster than Lisp? :o 16:40:21 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:42:31 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-156.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:07 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 16:43:17 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:44:01 zhulikas: No, Yes, Mayeb 16:44:03 Maybe even 16:45:54 brown [~user@nat/google/x-eiavwxdgkdgxfejk] has joined #lisp 16:46:02 -!- brown is now known as reb 16:46:17 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:46:31 shit, I am confused :D 16:47:03 zhulikas: the answer to anything in the real world is nearly always "it depends" 16:48:34 you know, the reason why I started looking into Lisp is AI. But the first thing what comes into mind regarding AI is robotics. And first thing about robotics - C/C++. I don't even know if Lisp has a decent support for embedded programming 16:49:35 zhulikas: I guess you could write some lisp to generate the fpga magic for ya or what not. Maybe write an AVR assembler or what you are using. 16:50:09 zhulikas: Personally I like forth for embedded toying around. C makes me angry (: 16:51:14 kriyative [~user@ip70-181-85-174.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:51:28 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:53:24 lichtblau: didn't see much difference both in case of C++ and Lisp. On the other hand, I didn't do any exact time measurements. Maybe we should turn this cannonfield into benchmark. 16:54:16 anyone can explain me what does it mean that lisp is "programmable' programming language 16:54:20 schme: comfy looks nice for AVR level machines 16:54:56 pkhuong: What's that? 16:55:27 zhulikas: Lisp has many facilities for modifying, extending, and generally altering the language, at various levels. 16:56:01 zhulikas: for example, you can modify Lisp's syntax through macros, and you can alter the behavior of the object system through the CLOS metaobject protocol. 16:56:35 schme: for instance. 16:57:21 why lisp is considered to be one of the best choices for ai programming? 16:57:26 pkhuong: Thanks. I tried some googling an no luck. 16:57:28 zhulikas: It is? 16:57:48 zhulikas: Because mega1 is awesome. 16:57:50 as far as I read about ai programming... most of people are suggesting lisp 16:58:16 zhulikas: Are you reading AI texts from centuries back in time? 16:58:42 zhulikas: Lisp was historically associated with AI, but it hasn't been that involved in recent years, afaict. 16:59:04 well, I read wikipedia, stackoverflow 16:59:48 Do you consider those authoritative sources on artificial intelligence? 16:59:50 If I look in the machine learning lab here, it's mostly C++, and some glue language around that (mostly Python). 17:00:07 zhulikas: It's just a programming language. I don't think most AI stuff is done in lisp these days. the AI stuff I use is all C/C++. 17:00:27 also everyone knows prolog is the AI language ;) 17:00:32 so if I want to go deep into AI, I should consider c++, yes? 17:00:45 zhulikas: do you know any languages yet? 17:00:54 zhulikas: You should consider studying AI. Language is just a language :) 17:00:54 python, java, php, bit of c++ 17:00:56 you should probably considering going deep into AI if you want to go deep into AI 17:01:08 pascal of course 17:01:14 of course! 17:01:16 :D 17:01:29 schme, everyone in my country must learn pascal at school 17:01:35 zhulikas: if you want to learn Lisp, just learn Lisp. You're wasting time you could be spending on learning. 17:01:45 What's that norvig book. 17:01:46 hmm 17:01:52 PAIP? AIMA? 17:01:56 AIMA is it. 17:02:15 zhulikas: imnsho, it will teach you many things that will benefit you in the long run, regardless of whether you use it or not. 17:02:35 like what? 17:02:36 zhulikas: Go get Artificial Intelligence: A Modern Approach. Then use whatever language floats your boat. 17:02:52 rfg [~rfg@client-86-25-216-194.glw-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:01 well, maybe that's what I should have started with...asking for a decent resource :) 17:03:16 http://aima.cs.berkeley.edu/ has links and everything. 17:03:16 not by following stupid articles from last century 17:03:38 ehehe 17:03:47 zhulikas: There's nothing *wrong* with lisp for AI. We obviously love lisp here :) 17:03:55 yeah, I know :) 17:04:34 but the question is if it is worth to learn lisp only for lisp. and now I know the answer is no. :) as I can use any language for that. 17:04:55 I just thought that maybe lisp has some significant advantages in ai comparing to other languages 17:05:06 I'd learn lisp anyway. It's quite pleasent. 17:05:55 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 17:05:59 zhulikas: It has significant advantages over other languages in a variety of domains. 17:06:01 once again, if i know how to program, all I would learn from lisp is it's syntax 17:06:14 zhulikas: uhhh, that's not the case. 17:06:38 zhulikas: You'll learn other things from Lisp. The whole 'programmable programming language' being a big part of that. 17:06:40 zhulikas: Weeeell. Lisp has some features that is not so common in your pascal/java/python/C++ bundle, that might get your mind working in new directions. 17:07:35 it also sounds like you don't have any kind of background in a language that stylistically exploits higher-order functions. 17:07:35 zhulikas: those languages are pretty much the same, afterall. With lisp being a bit different. You might also want to check out the haskell and prolog and erlang while you're at it :) 17:07:37 do not call it a bundle. I use only one language on a daily basis. 17:08:05 Python can technically do it, but it doesn't encourage it, nor does it seem to have great support for it. 17:08:08 jlf [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has joined #lisp 17:08:31 Plus, Lisp has no syntax, so you won't be learning any syntax from it. :) 17:09:56 zhulikas: Prolog programming for artificial intelligence is quite a nice book too. 17:10:20 course it is a bit more linked with a specific programming language than AIMA is :) 17:10:26 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:10:57 i think i will get AIMA :) 17:11:09 it looks quite nice 17:12:14 zhulikas: Good choice. Written by the guy who wrote the lisp book. :) 17:12:31 hehe :)) 17:12:53 hmm, higher-order functions... 17:13:02 As seen on TV! 17:13:31 zhulikas: as well as a language that, while it supports them, tends to discourage certain kinds of gratuitous side-effects. 17:13:36 is it possible to generate output function according to input function? 17:13:49 zhulikas: Yes. 17:13:58 higher order functions in C is a bit of a pain for sure :) 17:13:59 so its a high flexibility 17:14:30 zhulikas: Writing functions that return functions is er'day business. 17:14:47 where's that lisp features link? 17:15:15 http://abhishek.geek.nz/docs/features-of-common-lisp/ I guess it's the first hit on google. 17:15:26 hmm 17:15:31 maybe I should start using googly again. 17:15:31 -!- xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@114.93.130.227] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:15:39 page #2 on ixquick 17:15:46 zhulikas: I'll leave you with that. You should just learn CL instead of trying to dissect something you don't understand from afar. 17:16:26 zhulikas: For lisp http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ is nice. 17:16:38 not AI related. :) 17:16:59 not sure if robotics is either though? 17:20:22 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-65-202-226.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:21:29 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:21:42 cmm [~cmm@109.65.202.226] has joined #lisp 17:22:02 sexp-imp [8f6a101c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.143.106.16.28] has joined #lisp 17:22:12 is it somehow possible to check out if a sexp binds a symbol? Eg: (binds? '(let ((foo 'bar)))) -> t 17:22:34 or could possibly bind 17:22:51 or, better yet, which symbols it could possibly bind 17:23:12 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 17:24:47 sexp-imp: It's hard in the presence of macros, but easy otherwise. 17:26:03 billitch [~billitch@62.201.142.90] has joined #lisp 17:34:41 benny [~benny@i577A1FA5.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 17:34:52 snorble [~snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 17:37:44 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 17:39:23 -!- sexp-imp [8f6a101c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.143.106.16.28] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:40:05 -!- lanthan_afh [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:40:42 -!- tfb [~tfb@92.41.240.193.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:41:15 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 17:44:30 -!- hlavaty [~user@95-88-27-48-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:46:36 eugu [~eugene@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 17:48:16 askatasuna [~askatasun@host230.190-3-1.static.telmex.net.ar] has joined #lisp 17:49:42 phaer [~user@85-125-140-227.zollergasse.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 17:50:13 hello, what is a good beginner lisp setup for fedora (linux)? I'd like to try it out on something like the console this guy uses http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-BFgErib4k 17:50:29 carlocci [~nes@93.37.197.165] has joined #lisp 17:50:52 ch077179: What console does this guy use? (no flash player here) 17:51:02 that's lispworks 17:51:24 yes 17:54:05 -!- oconnore [~eric@ip68-225-113-244.mc.at.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:55:32 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 17:59:11 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d01089d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:00:10 hi 18:01:41 hi prxq 18:04:29 -!- milanj [~milanj_@77-46-174-202.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:04:49 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:08:49 -!- kriyative [~user@ip70-181-85-174.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:09:08 aidalgol [~user@114-134-9-4.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 18:09:18 milanj [~milanj_@77-46-174-202.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 18:12:03 pnq [~nick@ACA3E1E9.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 18:12:17 HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-140-228.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:13:43 -!- drdo`` [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:14:10 oconnore [~eric@wsip-70-168-242-70.mc.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:15:21 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: away!] 18:16:07 morning 18:17:20 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.32] has joined #lisp 18:18:19 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-174.mirrorimage.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:20:35 *Xach* notes the Lisp connection at http://www.boingboing.net/2010/12/09/anonymous-stops-drop.html 18:22:22 will they leak how ANSI Common Lisp standardization process was terrorizing ISO Lisp standardization? 18:22:52 -!- oconnore [~eric@wsip-70-168-242-70.mc.at.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:23:04 oconnore [~eric@wsip-70-168-242-70.mc.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:23:06 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-053-110.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:23:16 Xach: i don 18:23:22 't get it :-) 18:23:29 They used the Lisp-powered roflbot (see watermark). 18:23:38 http://wigflip.com/roflbot/ that is 18:23:51 aahhh 18:23:54 Xach: aha, now you're helping terrorists! 18:24:28 stassats: technically, since lisp is for ai, a program not unlike skynet is doing it 18:24:47 indeed. Yo Xach, congrats. I've seen that picture at quite a few places. 18:24:54 -!- oconnore [~eric@wsip-70-168-242-70.mc.at.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:25:02 oconnore [~eric@wsip-70-168-242-70.mc.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:25:40 -!- Cooler_ [~sabayonus@189-68-174-20.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:26:05 -!- oconnore [~eric@wsip-70-168-242-70.mc.at.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:26:22 oconnore [~eric@wsip-70-168-242-70.mc.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:27:56 -!- mk2 [~user@159.92.65.57] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:28:06 craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 18:29:44 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-46-120.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:30:04 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-44-202.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:32:03 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:33:21 novaburst [~novaburst@sourcemage/mage/novaburst] has joined #lisp 18:35:40 -!- oconnore [~eric@wsip-70-168-242-70.mc.at.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:36:21 -!- phaer [~user@85-125-140-227.zollergasse.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:38:30 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:39:17 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:41:34 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:42:15 katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-209-215.dhcp.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:42:15 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-209-215.dhcp.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 18:42:15 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 18:48:53 -!- morphling [~stefan@95.117.101.95] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:49:01 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 18:52:49 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.152.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:53:30 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:53:43 -!- xan_ [~xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:54:42 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.115.202.96] has joined #lisp 18:56:56 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 18:57:15 drdo`` [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 19:01:30 amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 19:01:37 gigamonkey: is your mp3 is there a git/darcs/svn/cvs repo for your mp3 parsing stuff? 19:02:18 https://github.com/gigamonkey/pcl-practicals/tree/master/Chapter25 maybe? 19:02:48 thanks xach 19:03:29 is that on quicklisp? 19:03:45 No. 19:04:03 :( 19:04:17 I'd like gigamonkey's mp3 and my mp4 stuff to be rolled up in a nice package suitable for ql 19:06:31 cool 19:07:27 -!- drdo`` is now known as drdo 19:09:45 pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:11:26 Edward [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-19-226.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:14:57 Bronsa [~bronsa@host172-180-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:15:04 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-140-228.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:16:32 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-053-110.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:22:33 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lw8SQqmHPbI here is a video i made today showing GNU emacs with elisp gesture recognition on a tablet. 19:23:19 hello dto 19:23:20 tcr: therep? 19:23:23 hi madnificent 19:23:54 dto: that, is cool (now at 0:25 19:24:31 :) i spent HOURS setting this up 19:24:35 but i can share the gestures file 19:24:50 and my little wrapper functions to make strokes-mode behave better 19:24:59 dto: it would be cool if you could collect information on how you built it 19:25:04 built what 19:25:15 rpg: yeah 19:25:18 the gesture recognition 19:25:22 s/built/setup/ maybe 19:25:27 madnificent: it's included with emacs. strokes.el 19:25:41 yeah i could go over setup and share my gestures in a github repo. 19:25:46 that's nifty cool 19:25:53 tcr: Have you looked at stas's patch for named-readtables? 19:25:55 hehe, someone should reddit this 19:26:10 *madnificent* doesn't use reddit, he only reads it 19:26:11 madnificent: so this is elisp actually processing and recognizing the gesture 19:26:27 dto: took me a while to realise that 19:26:30 rpg: Sure, is there something wrong with it? 19:27:02 Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050067189.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:27:23 maybe i didn't say enough about it in the video 19:27:30 dto: although it wasn't about your games, that youtube clip was very nifty 19:28:02 dto: I was in the process of watching the video whilst I was chatting to you... so you may have mentioned it in the video later 19:28:36 tsuru [~charlie@adsl-179-29-10.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:28:56 jhuni [~jhuni@udp217774uds.hawaiiantel.net] has joined #lisp 19:28:59 oconnore [~eric@ip68-225-113-244.mc.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:03 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-025-222.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:32:26 tcr: No, just wondering if it's ready to go and if you'll be incorporating it. 19:32:46 user__ [~user@117.195.41.249] has joined #lisp 19:33:45 -!- user__ [~user@117.195.41.249] has quit [Client Quit] 19:33:54 rpg: I might find time over christmas 19:34:18 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw501177.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:34:28 ah i see. 19:34:29 tcr: I haven't been using the named-readtables on anything under active development this year. 19:34:31 I have local changes which I don't like quite like anymore but which will required careful reading through the diffs to look for anything to preserve 19:34:31 madnificent: :) 19:34:39 madnificent: the thing i show at the end is my game engine UI :) 19:34:42 color blocks thing 19:35:06 yeah, but it's a teaser, not anything substantial to thinker about just yet :) 19:35:18 dto: I guess that will be interesting in the future though 19:35:25 yeah i know : 19:35:28 :) 19:35:36 madnificent: it was something i threw in at the end for fun 19:35:45 it was fun to see! 19:35:47 SDL is going to support multitouch in 1.3 19:36:05 my tablet doesn't support multitouch 19:36:05 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-75-154.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:37:03 -!- Snamich [~Snamich@75-128-11-42.dhcp.snlo.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Snamich] 19:40:14 -!- ska` [~user@ppp-58-8-103-186.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:40:15 austinh [~austinh@c-67-189-92-40.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:41:09 -!- oconnore [~eric@ip68-225-113-244.mc.at.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:41:42 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 19:41:50 -!- charliekilo [~charlieki@pool-96-236-149-254.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:43:22 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 19:45:46 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-9-4.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:47:16 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw501177.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 19:49:42 oconnore [~eric@ip68-225-113-244.mc.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:49:52 Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-51-145-83.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:49:52 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-51-145-83.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:49:52 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 19:52:00 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:53:36 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 19:54:50 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:56:55 -!- oconnore [~eric@ip68-225-113-244.mc.at.cox.net] has quit [] 19:57:10 oconnore [~eric@ip68-225-113-244.mc.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:00:04 harovali [~harovali@r190-135-86-24.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 20:00:06 gozek [~quassel@56.165.216.87.static.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 20:04:12 dto: Damn you, you made me want a tablet :( 20:04:49 -!- oconnore [~eric@ip68-225-113-244.mc.at.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:05:09 Soulman1 [~knute@219.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 20:09:34 freddie111 [~user@150.140.228.64] has joined #lisp 20:10:27 pepone [~pepone@135.246.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 20:12:31 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw501177.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:13:34 Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 20:13:58 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-158-218.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:23 oconnore [~eric@ip68-225-113-244.mc.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:21:36 drdo: blue or red? 20:21:41 -!- jlf [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:22:20 what is the definition of procedure + ? 20:22:30 clhs + 20:22:41 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@42.Red-217-125-2.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:42 zhulikas: What do you mean? 20:23:16 minion is not there 20:23:45 drdo, I just watched first lecture of MIT "structure and interpretation of computer programs", they are using lisp 20:23:45 http://l1sp.org/search?q=%2B 20:23:57 zhulikas: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_pl.htm 20:24:08 zhulikas: SICP really uses scheme. certain things will be quite different. 20:24:16 zhulikas: They use scheme, not common lisp 20:24:16 zhulikas: They are using Scheme. 20:24:26 -!- zhulikas [zhulikas@3e6b7b31.rev.stofanet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:24:30 -!- ch077179 [~urs@adsl-84-227-56-82.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20:24:41 zhulikas [zhulikas@3e6b7b31.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #lisp 20:24:50 and all the operators in lisp are procedures 20:24:51 so I started wondering how to make a low level procedure 20:25:06 for example my own for-each loop 20:25:12 man defmacro 20:25:25 but FIRST, learn about higher-order functions. 20:25:27 zhulikas: You can't write something like for-each as a procedure 20:25:47 drdo: Scheme's for-each is like mapcar. 20:25:57 I think? 20:26:02 sykopomp: Yeah, was about to say unless that's what he meant 20:26:21 zhulikas: We like the word function instead of procedures (: 20:26:32 zhulikas: Bring it to #scheme 20:26:36 is there a difference? 20:26:41 zhulikas: ask #scheme. 20:26:48 i understand scheme is different than lisp 20:26:53 or a branch of it? 20:26:56 in Common Lisp, we call them functions. 20:27:07 zhulikas: Common Lisp and Scheme are different LISP dialects 20:27:12 sykopomp, in 86' people called it procedures :D 20:27:29 zhulikas: The difference between saying function and procedure is mostly that procedure gets confusing because everyone is used to read function, and translating the word is extra work for my poor brain. 20:27:34 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:27:40 zhulikas: Schemers still call them procedures, but these are different languages. 20:27:42 Procedure is actually a better name 20:27:49 I like 'applicative'. 20:27:50 It's a much worse name. 20:27:55 It doesn't clash with the mathematical notion of function 20:27:57 because it doesn't rhyme with the spec. 20:28:01 Which functions in CL aren't 20:28:05 good thing we're not doing math. 20:28:45 schme, I think that Lisp is perfect tool for math 20:29:02 zhulikas: Perfect is maybe a bit of a stretch. 20:29:05 or is it that math is the perfect tool for lisp? 20:29:16 pnq, hehe :) 20:29:30 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-171-89.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:30:29 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-171-89.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:31:25 ok, so I found function + in lispworks. But it doesn't show the implementation of function :D 20:31:57 zhulikas: How + is implemented varies. 20:32:13 can you give me one example how it could be implemented? 20:32:31 zhulikas: Grab source of some lisp implementation, have a look. 20:32:32 that would depend on how everything else was implemented 20:32:32 zhulikas: the sources of ten different CL implementations are available! 20:33:33 Though I suppose most have some fancy stuff going on around #'+ to make it go real fast. 20:34:12 when I first looked at the internals of a lisp I was shocked at how simple it was 20:34:28 although "simple" is subjective and dependant on the implementation 20:34:28 Lisp is pretty simple. 20:34:37 zhulikas: The last SICP lectures are about implementation by the way 20:35:10 well, I am not going to jump into the last lectures, but I need to feed my hunger for knowledge at this very moment :D 20:35:19 So I guess I'll just take a look at source code of lisp 20:35:29 zhulikas: implementing Church Encoding in Common Lisp is left as an exercise to the reader. 20:35:57 zhulikas: There are a number of open source lisps around to look at. :) 20:36:06 I'll just pick one :) 20:36:16 -!- billitch [~billitch@62.201.142.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:36:20 anyway, now I see differences between Lisp and other programming languages. 20:36:22 zhulikas: You on windows or some such? 20:36:30 I wonder if there is something else so unique as lisp :D 20:36:33 zhulikas: I would advise ccl. 20:36:47 zhulikas: lisp isn't all that unique as it is made up to be. But it's quite nice :) 20:36:54 schme, Windows/Linux. Using virtualbox for ubuntu 20:37:08 zhulikas: You very probably haven't understood the real benefit yet 20:37:16 yeah, its possible 20:37:21 zhulikas: ccl for windows, sbcl for ubuntu. And the emacs+slime combo on top of it. all is well then. 20:37:28 powerje [~powerj@rrcs-74-218-15-82.central.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:37:32 but at this very moment, when all I've seen is just the basics, I already like it :) 20:37:39 cools 20:37:44 about time. 20:38:14 schme, I assume slime is not necessary? It's just an interaction mode... so it simplifies things 20:38:27 zhulikas: That's correct. It is not necessary. 20:38:38 Well, nothing is really necessary, you can edit with a butterfly! 20:38:44 just like visual studio isn't necessary for F# and C# development. 20:39:24 drdo, is it a reference to xkcd comic? :) 20:40:04 zhulikas: of course 20:40:44 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA3E1E9.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:41:03 s1gma_ [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 20:41:03 I hope I am not too annoying for you guys 20:41:19 zhulikas: Nope. 20:42:10 zhulikas: Oh, you would have known by now if that was the case ;D 20:42:13 I assume if I have emacs I have ccl? 20:42:25 zhulikas: wrong. 20:42:33 -!- oconnore [~eric@ip68-225-113-244.mc.at.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:42:41 well, but I can use Lisp. or eLisp... 20:42:42 emacs uses emacs lisp, different from Common Lisp. 20:43:00 ok then, i'll search for ccl 20:43:31 zhulikas: http://openmcl.clozure.com/ 20:43:44 thanks for googling for me 20:44:29 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:44:46 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-025-222.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:47:23 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 20:48:02 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050067189.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:48:28 Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050067189.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:48:52 zhulikas: You might want to just install using your package manager 20:49:25 *Fade* builds sbcl 1.0.45 on a linux/ppc box 20:49:47 installing lisp packages using ubuntu package manager? :( 20:50:12 why not? ;D 20:50:28 zhulikas: The debian lisp packages are well known to wreak havoc. 20:50:42 -!- rtoy [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.12/2010102600]] 20:50:52 It's why we all use quicklisp \o/ 20:50:54 schme: No, i meant emacs and an implementation 20:51:04 <3 quicklisp 20:51:11 drdo: and installing a lisp implementation would bring the whole CLC wreak. 20:51:25 the whole what? 20:51:31 the common lisp controller. 20:51:49 no idea what that is 20:51:56 it's some debian plague. 20:52:40 Eh, i usually use arch 20:52:46 zhulikas: I find for linux the easiest thing is to just grab some sbcl binary from sbcl.org, and using your favourite package manager to install emacs. 20:52:55 arch is spared of the CLC. 20:52:56 Used gentoo for a long time before 20:53:03 gentoo has the CLC plague. 20:53:18 schme i got sbcl sbcl-source sbcl-doc packages with apt-get 20:53:27 schme: When i used it there was no good way to get CL systems anyway 20:53:42 It was something like 5 years ago 20:53:49 fe[nl]ix: why do we have the CLC? Is it just waiting for an alternative? 20:54:05 zhulikas: Personally I'd recommend to remove those and everything associated with lisp, using that there apt-get, and then just grabbing a binary from sbcl.org 20:54:06 fe[nl]ix: on gentoo, that is 20:54:09 oconnore [~eric@ip68-225-113-244.mc.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:54:10 CLC is its own alternative, already 20:54:21 with ASDF2, CLC does approximately nothing. 20:54:44 That's good. 20:54:45 Before ASDF2, CLC did only a little tiny bit. 20:54:54 At this point you could just have a quicklisp package 20:54:55 ya like totally mess everything up. 20:54:56 Before before that, it was a hairy mess 20:55:01 no, it didn't mess everything up 20:55:06 odd. it seemed to for me. 20:55:28 it installed output files in different directories, just like asdf-binary-locations, and just like ASDF2 does always. 20:55:31 that's about all it did 20:56:06 I seem to remember it being a great pain in the butt and I never touched it since. 20:56:19 Some loved it dearly. 20:56:19 a long time ago it spawned a compilation daemon and all sorts of hairy crap like that 20:56:22 madnificent: it's "legacy"; we stopped using it 2-3 years ago 20:56:27 foom: Yes. 20:56:31 looong time ago 20:56:35 I've always wondered about a better way to do package management 20:56:49 anyone who's still complaining about that version should get over it already. 20:56:51 foom: Dunno about long time ago. Isn't it maybe just 8 years old in all? 20:56:58 What we have mostly everywhere requires too much work, individually preparing each package 20:57:10 fe[nl]ix: oh, that's good. So I'm quite safe when I install sbcl through portage? 20:57:16 yes 20:57:21 -!- powerje [~powerj@rrcs-74-218-15-82.central.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:57:22 thanks! 20:57:46 powerje [~powerj@rrcs-74-218-15-82.central.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:58:05 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:58:12 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 20:58:21 -!- murilasso [~murilasso@189.103.20.140] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:58:40 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:01:05 Frakk [~Frakk@host162-250-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 21:01:17 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host172-180-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:01:57 murilasso [~murilasso@189.103.20.140] has joined #lisp 21:02:21 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:02:31 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-171-89.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:04:23 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.32] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:05:05 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@host230.190-3-1.static.telmex.net.ar] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 21:08:28 -!- murilasso [~murilasso@189.103.20.140] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:08:43 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 21:08:51 murilasso [~murilasso@189.103.20.140] has joined #lisp 21:10:37 minsa [~minsa@c-24-5-121-157.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:11:05 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:11:47 -!- compmstr [~compmstr@adsl-074-185-008-197.sip.clt.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:11:53 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 21:12:15 compmstr [~compmstr@adsl-074-185-008-197.sip.clt.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 21:14:58 -!- barandis [~thomas@66.208.14.74] has left #lisp 21:16:27 rfg_ [~rfg@client-80-5-174-218.glw-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:43 -!- rfg [~rfg@client-86-25-216-194.glw-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:16:43 -!- rfg_ is now known as rfg 21:16:53 -!- prip [~foo@host241-9-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:18:37 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-171-89.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:19:37 -!- pok [~pok@tarrant.klingenberg.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:20:12 Posterdati_ [~tapioca@host127-230-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 21:20:29 -!- Posterdati_ [~tapioca@host127-230-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:21:39 fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 21:21:44 pok [~pok@tarrant.klingenberg.no] has joined #lisp 21:22:55 -!- fogus` is now known as fogus`away 21:23:31 -!- novaburst [~novaburst@sourcemage/mage/novaburst] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:23:47 HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-140-228.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 21:25:17 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:25:35 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:27:03 gabnet [~gabnet@172.63.193-77.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 21:30:17 prip [~foo@host122-132-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 21:30:27 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:30:38 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d01089d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:30:54 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:31:49 Messanger [~Eliyahu@ip68-8-233-40.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:50 world leaders setting you all up right now to get microchipped by RFID microchips with identity/healthcare/credit information into their new world order why they are folding the economy , their solution to the problem they are causing is the RFID microchip http://www.scribd.com/doc/44997148/The-Mark-of-the-Beast Romans 10:13 all who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 21:32:05 -!- Messanger [~Eliyahu@ip68-8-233-40.sd.sd.cox.net] has left #lisp 21:32:52 oh wow (: 21:33:04 I like that much better than the racist ones. 21:33:10 -!- rfg [~rfg@client-80-5-174-218.glw-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:33:33 guy had the courtesy of leaving, at least 21:33:44 Don't shoot the messanger. 21:33:48 wow biblical references and all 21:34:17 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-116-252.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:34:47 but yeah, obvious insanity is always more entertaining than racist trolling /-: 21:35:41 anyone know if slime can do inline hyperspec references and not open an html page in default browser? 21:36:13 yan_: dpans2texi will convert the ansi spec to texi, which you can convert to info 21:36:25 you can open / search / reference that from emacs 21:36:35 yan_: you can open them in w3m, too. 21:36:40 or you could use w3-mode from emacs on the hyperspec. 21:37:12 (I prefer the browser, but if I had to use emacs only, I'd go for info) 21:37:38 Conkeror has a built-in clhs shortcut, which I've always used instead of SLIME's hyperspec lookup. 21:38:41 *schme* likes emacs-w3m for the hyperspec lookup. 21:39:09 dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:50 -!- red1ynx [~Dzmitry@46.56.204.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:41:52 rfg [~rfg@client-86-25-218-19.glw-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has joined #lisp 21:42:58 -!- oconnore [~eric@ip68-225-113-244.mc.at.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:44:48 *schme* clicks a link on reddit and reads... "The result was something with the performance of LISP and elegance of C++. It was horrible.". ooof 21:45:18 maybe they're referring to LISP 1.5? that might have been slow (: 21:45:27 they're half-right, at least 21:45:58 good Lisps are usually pretty fast with optional type hinting or static typing 21:45:59 hehehe 21:46:04 Yea 21:46:23 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has left #lisp 21:47:27 barceloona [~user@95.214.62.74] has joined #lisp 21:47:55 -!- murilasso [~murilasso@189.103.20.140] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:48:48 murilasso [~murilasso@189.103.20.140] has joined #lisp 21:49:49 barceloo1a [~user@95.214.22.11] has joined #lisp 21:50:02 -!- mg4001 [~mg4001@cpe-76-93-28-217.socal.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 21:50:42 -!- Lochy [~lochy@59.94.107.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:51:25 Lochy [~lochy@59.94.107.62] has joined #lisp 21:52:10 http://symbo1ics.com/blog/?p=8 (: 21:52:20 -!- barceloona [~user@95.214.62.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:52:59 -!- mtk [~mtk@ool-182c8e6c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:53:32 oh god 21:54:32 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d01089d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:56:14 oi 21:58:19 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:59:42 rff [~rff@ip72-207-243-174.br.br.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:34 -!- guaqua [gua@xob.kapsi.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:04:36 -!- pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo_] 22:05:35 compiling huge things with SBCL is always so fun to watch :) :) 22:05:42 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:06:09 pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:ddfc] has joined #lisp 22:07:10 mheld [~mheld@c-75-69-89-109.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:09:04 Yeees.. that nice progressbar quicklisp shows sure is fun ;) 22:09:36 GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-26-27.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:11:28 schme: progress bar??? 22:11:39 ................................................................................................................................................................................................................. 22:11:53 ah, for downloading 22:12:09 prxq: no, ql has a macroexpand hook that displays the number of top-level forms compiled 22:12:26 prxq: it's not as noisy as listing the files, but it still shows that stuff is going on 22:12:36 Has anyone written up anything regarding best practices for including a unit test package? 22:12:46 I wonder if the dots have any significance, and if not, why something like displaying ten "|" characters wasn't done. 22:12:55 Everyone seems to do it differently and I don't understand the additional "perform" methods that are usually included. 22:12:57 red1ynx [~Dzmitry@178.120.152.85] has joined #lisp 22:13:08 Quadrescence: every dot is one top-level form macroexpanded, IIRC 22:13:15 antifuchs: ah 22:13:21 austinh: the perform methods are useless, I believe 22:13:32 austinh: asdf has no way of knowing if the test succeeded or not 22:13:46 (you still have to rely on any output that the test package does) 22:13:57 Hi, in what package are cstruct, include defined 22:14:03 so I would say don't bother shipping an asdf:perform method for test-op. 22:14:15 antifuchs: somehow managed to overlook that. 22:14:20 *prxq* is puzzled 22:14:38 So, do you normally set up the tests to be run by loading the test system directly, or something like (asdf:oos 'test-op :foo)? 22:15:09 I'd say define a tests system, and have it depend on the test framework you use 22:15:19 (or use clucumber, which sidesteps the entire issue (-:) 22:15:38 antifuchs: Do you put the test system in a separate asd file? 22:15:56 Xach would have to answer that... I think it would make sense to. 22:15:57 -!- iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-150-188.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:16:14 (he's the authority on naming things and putting asdf systems somewhere now (-:) 22:18:04 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@172.63.193-77.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 22:18:15 Does anyone know about a bittorrent client library? 22:19:17 drdo: for lisp? 22:19:33 madnificent: yes 22:20:01 didn't fe[nl]ix write a bittorrent client library? 22:20:11 Failing that, a specification so i can write one 22:20:13 -!- Edward [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-19-226.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 22:20:22 Now that cl-bencode is in quicklisp and all :) 22:20:43 drdo: I don't think it exists. cliki didn't show anything either. I don't know how complicated the bittorrent protocol is. You might be able to write a library or create a wrapper around (ie) the libtorrent library 22:21:00 madnificent: Nah, i'd rather write one in lisp 22:21:35 I was looking into this before, but the specification on wikipedia doesn't seem to reflect the reality 22:21:41 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:21:46 wrapping libtorrent is a pretty good idea (if you can stomach doing c++ wrappers), as it has most problems already worked out. 22:22:41 it's a bit like cryptography: starts out deceptively simple, but it's easy to do it right and still have lots of subtle errors that have your software misbehave in ways you wouldn't even notice 22:23:26 sixpoint8 [~jaykub@ip68-12-204-131.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:24:44 aidalgol [~user@114-134-9-4.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 22:25:35 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:26:08 SpitfireWP_ [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 22:27:05 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-140-228.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:27:26 -!- pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:ddfc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:27:33 frodation [~user@p54B29633.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:28:26 -!- frodation [~user@p54B29633.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #lisp 22:28:51 loomer [~loomer@pool-173-79-230-80.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:51 -!- loomer [~loomer@pool-173-79-230-80.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:28:51 loomer [~loomer@unaffiliated/loomer] has joined #lisp 22:28:53 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:29:38 I have some libtorrent bindings around somewhere. 22:29:41 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:29:48 for the mcclim torrent client ;) 22:29:57 -!- Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: omghaahhahaohwow] 22:29:58 schme: are those for the rakashasa libtorrent? 22:30:05 if so, awesome (: 22:30:51 Yes. But 0.5 or some such. From what I can remember the API has undergone sme heavy changes. 22:30:55 Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 22:31:06 -!- loomer [~loomer@unaffiliated/loomer] has left #lisp 22:31:11 yeah, ISTR it's at 0.10 now (-: 22:31:29 but it sounds like a great start. I am a big libtorrent fan (: 22:32:51 holy gosh 22:33:17 maybe its not 0.5. sounds ancient. I need to get on the other machine and have a look. 22:33:38 Is mcclim actively developed? 22:34:05 there are people reading the mailing list, and beach is working on a big iteration of the api 22:34:10 0.6 . still ancient. ugh. 22:34:44 I'll have a look at the 0.10 and see if I can be bothered. I initially did it because other clients pissed me off with hte lack of some functions. 22:35:06 course it landed me in the place where I realised mcclim was overkill and tty would be nicer :) 22:35:09 hmmm 22:35:26 antifuchs: I'm on the mailing list, it's quite inactive 22:35:33 perhaps magicing up bindings for that nice tty-lib finch uses + libtorrent 22:35:42 drdo: yeah. it's why I said "reading" (: 22:36:33 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-171-89.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:37:34 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-171-89.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:37:46 -!- Frakk [~Frakk@host162-250-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Frakk] 22:38:09 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:39:07 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:40:29 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-116-252.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 22:40:46 guaqua [gua@xob.kapsi.fi] has joined #lisp 22:44:18 -!- Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: The joy of kernel vulnerabilities.] 22:48:01 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:48:19 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:48:25 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:49:11 Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:51:14 sabalaba [~sabalaba@123.123.5.42] has joined #lisp 22:52:35 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.197.165] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 22:52:41 -!- powerje [~powerj@rrcs-74-218-15-82.central.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: powerje] 22:52:43 -!- djinni` [~djinni`@li14-39.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:54:30 or at least subscribed to anyway 22:55:59 -!- jweiss [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:00:58 djinni` [~djinni`@li14-39.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 23:01:02 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.54.248] has joined #lisp 23:02:10 barceloona [~user@95.214.14.16] has joined #lisp 23:02:28 -!- ymasory [~ymasory@grok.psych.upenn.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:05:07 -!- barceloo1a [~user@95.214.22.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:06:20 -!- milanj [~milanj_@77-46-174-202.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:08:59 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d01089d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:12:33 pnq [~nick@AC820FB2.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 23:14:44 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:24:58 Snamich [~Snamich@75-128-11-42.dhcp.snlo.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 23:25:11 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 23:25:37 summersault [~george@189.107.132.152] has joined #lisp 23:26:59 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 23:31:54 -!- rfg [~rfg@client-86-25-218-19.glw-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has quit [Quit: rfg] 23:32:01 powerje [~powerj@75.49.4.247] has joined #lisp 23:33:33 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:35:03 xan_ [~xan@26.Red-88-24-228.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:36:09 oconnore [~eric@ip68-225-113-244.mc.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:38:43 -!- minsa [~minsa@c-24-5-121-157.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:39:14 -!- freddie111 [~user@150.140.228.64] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:41:07 mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:42:10 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050067189.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:42:45 salva_oz [~kvirc@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 23:43:24 -!- s1ugg0 [~chrish@net-216-37-86-189.in-addr.worldspice.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:44:34 -!- kmwallio [~kmwallio@host113-70.brownlie.fit.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:48:24 hi, im using parse-html lib that returns a plist, there are some library of utils to search in a plist ? 23:49:05 You might want to check out closure-html and closure-xml 23:49:45 thanks 23:51:28 salva_oz: GETF finds keys in a plist 23:51:30 clhs getf 23:51:36 salva_oz: also, try destructuring-bind 23:52:38 antifuchs: find the keys in nested plists? 23:52:48 salva_oz: ah, that it won't do 23:52:48 antifuchs: thanks 23:53:42 i thinks that closure-html solve my problem thanks 23:53:55 sounds good (: 23:55:01 *p_l|backup* believes it would have been better to have single GETF instead of GETF/ASSOC/GETHASH. Though RASSOC would probably still be needed... :D 23:55:08 -!- rread [~rread@c-24-5-127-116.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: rread] 23:55:45 -!- eugu [~eugene@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:56:44 don't forget FIND 23:56:47 and POSITION (; 23:57:16 <_3b> and the iniability to distinguish plists from alists, or the inapplicability of :test to hash tables 23:57:45 _3b: there would still be make-hashtable, I bet 23:57:59 <_3b> oops, guess getf doesn't take :test anyway 23:58:34 for *creation*, assoc and rassoc would still be ok. I was just thinking about the common act of *getting* a reference 23:58:45 <_3b> p_l|backup: right, but having a bunch of &key args that only work for some types is annoying 23:58:59 though I guess there would be alist/plist confusion 23:59:34 *p_l|backup* never felt any real need for plists though. Reminds him too much of the idiotic XML format used for OSX plists 23:59:52 *_3b* likes them, easier to type than alists :p