00:04:21 jhuni [~jhuni@udp217774uds.hawaiiantel.net] has joined #lisp 00:04:35 -!- Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:06:52 Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:07:05 -!- nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:07:17 nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has joined #lisp 00:09:39 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:11:04 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:12:25 aidalgol [~user@114-134-9-4.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 00:13:55 -!- jconrad [~jconrad@host86-179-139-137.range86-179.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:14:29 -!- eugu [~eugene@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:15:40 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:18:08 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.228.19.135] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:19:15 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483A067.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:21:02 -!- Edward [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-20-133.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 00:22:22 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:23:55 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.58.5] has joined #lisp 00:24:07 -!- ASau [~user@95-27-197-147.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:24:57 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:25:22 ASau [~user@95-27-197-147.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 00:26:43 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:27:46 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.56.150.73] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:30:00 -!- kaemo [~mad5ci@d38-66.icpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:33:08 -!- erory [~rory_elri@124-168-30-1.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:35:18 -!- _6502_ [5e24ed3a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.36.237.58] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:35:37 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-177-34.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:40:06 sixpoint8 [~jaykub@ip68-12-204-131.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:42:37 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@user-387h3rc.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:43:35 netytan [~netytan@host86-175-234-103.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 00:44:57 I have a macro with-output-to-file which is much like Alexandria's except that it does an ensure-directories-exist on the file argument and returns the file's truename. I want to convert to using Alexandria where possible so I want to rename this. What's a good name? 00:48:28 erory [~rory_elri@124-168-30-1.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 00:56:42 pnq [~nick@AC82F21E.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 00:57:02 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:57:07 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@123.113.108.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:57:17 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 00:59:29 -!- dfox_ [~dfox@ip-213-220-225-182.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:59:39 -!- Taiyou` [~Taiyou@bas3-toronto47-1242432918.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:02:32 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@247-15-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:02:48 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 01:05:50 *hmmmm* 01:06:02 how does mcclim do the drawing of widgets? 01:06:15 i'm guessing it uses cffi bindings to ... something? 01:06:47 salva_oz [~kvirc@83.Red-88-31-163.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 01:07:47 holycow: not necessarily. it might use clx, which speaks the X protocol directly. 01:08:26 oh 01:08:42 *hmmm* looking 01:08:46 01:08:58 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:09:33 Xach: that might explain the odd choice of examples in the cl-mcclim-examples package i guess 01:10:02 holycow: I'm still digging up the details, but they seem to have restricted themselves to an *extremely* small set of "widgets" 01:10:19 Things that are guaranteed in the spec 01:10:29 -!- Soulman1 [~knute@219.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 01:10:30 scaphe [~soaexpert@201-92-250-157.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 01:10:55 ah, that makes sense 01:11:44 The latest thing I've read (which isn't very reliable) implied that they've pretty much stalled out on anything more modern...like listviews, treeviews, etc. 01:11:48 i don't exactly understand x.org ... i understand what it does in principle but why does it have widgets? is it because it was designed before general gui toolkits were around? 01:11:55 Which seems like a real shame 01:12:08 well thats sorta why i'm asking 01:12:54 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.55.65] has joined #lisp 01:13:30 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.219.133] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 01:13:52 Wish I knew enough for an answer 01:15:02 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Quit:] 01:15:52 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:16:15 Fr4Kus_ [~Fr4Kus@116.228.240.106] has joined #lisp 01:17:09 holycow: X doesn't define widgets. 01:17:39 holycow: it defines some primitive operations for drawing, and some other stuff, and a protocol for making requests to do those things. 01:18:32 there are libraries that implement higher-level things on that basic functionality. 01:18:49 like: gtk, qt, athena, etc. 01:18:55 And libraries on top of those ... it's turtles all the way up. 01:19:32 I'm totally out of my league here, but is that pretty much the idea behind all the layers in CLIM? 01:19:41 ah right. that is making more sense 01:19:44 Pick the turtle you want to deal with? 01:20:09 lol @ turtles all the way up 01:20:38 jimrthy: I don't know much about clim. My impression is that it defines some high-level concepts and it might use something low-level or high-level to implement it. i don't think any clim nerds are awake or present at the moment. 01:20:45 except maybe antifuchs, the professional clim nerd. 01:21:13 I am awake! 01:21:32 heh 01:22:16 (but was not connected until my phone rang) (: 01:22:49 LOL...I know. I need to shut myself back into 01:23:15 clim comes in several layers, true. the output recording stuff is used by presentations to give things painted on the screen an associated object 01:23:15 Invalid index 0: must be between 0 and -1. 01:23:21 yes, thanks, specbot (; 01:24:13 but most of CLIM is defined on a set of lower-level directives that adapt clim to the underlying gui library. the traditional implementations call the adapter interface the silica 01:24:18 annihilator [~rff@ip72-207-243-174.br.br.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:24:25 all of them call the actual implementation of an adapter a backend 01:24:56 it's just like any other library, except it goes a bit further up than a normal gui library nowadays 01:24:57 -!- rff [~rff@ip72-207-243-174.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:25:29 (which is a good or a bad thing (-:) 01:26:39 dammit...antifuchs: can you recommend reading material about adapters/backends/whatever? 01:27:07 sadly, the McCLIM code is all I know is publicly available 01:27:25 bipartite [~rff@ip72-207-243-174.br.br.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:27:57 Fair enough. I've known for more than a while that I need to dig into that. Thank you. 01:28:00 check that out - it's mostly not bad code... The newer backends like gtkairo are pretty interesting, as they show how far you can get with a "small" backend 01:28:03 -!- annihilator [~rff@ip72-207-243-174.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:28:05 symbole_ [~user@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:28:05 have fun (: 01:28:50 back *scroll* 01:29:59 oh neat 01:30:04 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:31:42 -!- gozek [~quassel@56.165.216.87.static.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:32:13 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:33:08 okay some noob questions / thoughts on mcclim 01:33:42 i'm learning lisp so that i can start building my own doing vector/ raster style apps. i know i know, why bother when ther eis gimp, inkscape, whatever. 01:33:45 its just for fun 01:35:26 but one thing that i have wondered about it, should not the toolkit that 'lets you' create a graphica interface between your codebase and the user ALSO use the same libraries to draw it's own widgets? 01:36:29 ah, the age-old "platform widgets or application widgets" question (: 01:36:54 nobody can tell for sure, I must say I prefer the platform widgets you get on e.g. the mac. They tend to be better for accessibility and result in a nice and consistent user experience. 01:37:10 what is the general thought on this? it seems to have been reinvented infinite number of times including with xul for mozilla 01:37:55 oh okay. what does mcclin do for widgets in terms of drawing them? does it actually have a drawing library that it uses or does it do something custom on top of the xorg primitives? 01:38:34 the default is to draw its own widgets on X11 01:38:34 some look good, some don't (: 01:38:53 there's the gtkairo backend which uses gtk2 to draw most widgets - that looks pretty good on linux, but still has bugs 01:39:21 ahhhhh ... okay that is starting to fall into place now. okay. 01:39:31 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:39:51 -!- timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-115-44.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:39:56 traditional clim ("classic clim") has a motif backend, which looks and feels like your regular traditional motif app 01:40:10 (IMHO, that translates to "like ass", but well. tastes of the early 90s) 01:40:17 heh, thats the motivation for the questions actually :) heh 01:41:25 okay actually that answered more questions than i expected. i am starting to see the varios 'turtles' so to speak 01:41:27 cool 01:41:56 -!- sixpoint8 [~jaykub@ip68-12-204-131.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: cya laters. * kicks SMB on the way out *] 01:42:23 cool (: 01:42:33 skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #lisp 01:42:40 i now realize that what i am accidentally recreating in my head is kde 01:42:41 I hate to step out of the shadows again, but I'll do it anyway 01:42:41 lol 01:43:02 jimrthy: any day :) i'm a noob flapping around hoping not to tick off too many people 01:43:07 hehe, go ahead, jimrthy (: 01:43:22 jimrthy: as long as your questions are topical, it's great if you ask (: 01:43:23 holycow just described me perfectly 01:43:31 raise the signal:noise level! 01:43:41 Yay! SNR! 01:43:44 Anyway 01:44:21 It seems like CLIM is taking things way farther than other "standard" UI toolkits 01:44:35 jimrthy: in what way? can you explain? 01:44:36 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:44:37 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:45:04 With them, I declare a bunch of buttons and the functions that respond when the user clicks on one 01:46:01 Well, html5 goes a long way toward similar goals, imho. 01:46:18 But they're both major advances on the usual toolkit approaches. 01:46:36 As I'm understanding it so far, with CLIM, I define presentation types (that could be whatever applies to the domain model), and then different ways to interact with those types 01:47:08 yeah. there's the command system that binds the presentations to what is happening in your program 01:47:22 and that's where it starts getting slightly incompatible with your regular ui toolkit (: 01:47:57 You can think of it as being a visual presentation of a CLI, perhaps, in that regard. 01:48:13 so the command loop expects to be given only one command at a time, which translates to a modal dialog-like behavior (except you can click around somewhere else) 01:48:24 -!- netytan [~netytan@host86-175-234-103.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Quit: netytan] 01:48:30 yeah, that's a good approximation 01:48:39 a CLI with hypertext and graphics (: 01:48:44 but yeah, still a CLI 01:48:49 maybe a fancy text adventure (; 01:49:09 interesting point 01:49:09 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-118-114.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:49:41 the other thing that i have been thinking about is that it would be great if a toolkit 'forced' the devs to write code such that the app could automagically be accessible via cli 01:50:26 meaning that if i wrote a gimp clone (i know, quake in your boots of the mediocrity) one 'might' be able to access the interface items from a cli if one wanted to 01:50:40 is that a reasonable or a dumb expectation? 01:50:57 in anyones personal opinion ... :) 01:51:05 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-223-174.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:51:09 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-221-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:51:20 -!- slyrus_ is now known as slyrus 01:51:36 -!- scaphe [~soaexpert@201-92-250-157.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Quit: scaphe] 01:51:39 With current widespread availability of hardware, i don't think that's a very worthwhile goal to pursue 01:52:00 Don't know about gimp...but what about some reasonably complex app (that didn't involve visual stuff) that blind people could also use? 01:52:20 drdo: it would automatically force api style access to the application 01:52:20 For example 01:52:46 meaning that you would be forced to embed scripting into the app by default and extendability would be there 01:52:51 ergo: lisp 01:52:59 kanru [~kanru@2001:c08:3700:ffff::26:fef4] has joined #lisp 01:53:06 or lisp as an interactive dev / deployment environment 01:53:06 holycow: gimp is perhaps not a great example, because it has embedded scripting in lisp already. 01:53:11 UI design is hard 01:53:39 holycow: Ergo, html5. 01:53:45 Xach: true but its a c app with 'added' scripting ability, it seems to me lisp can allow for this natively (well i guess any language can but i can't imagine scripting in c for example) 01:53:50 timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-71-85.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 01:54:00 Zhivago: prehaps *nod* 01:54:07 One thing i know though, there are a lot of applications flying around with GUIs that have no bussiness having a GUI and such GUI only makes usage harder 01:54:40 drdo: well as i absorb more and more of linux over the years 01:54:47 that is PRECISELY what i have noticed ... exactly that 01:55:26 Adding a command stream to html5 is fairly straight-forward. 01:55:26 i have, for example, gotten rid of all gui toolkits in my desktop environment. i start with a stumpwm workspace and load up kde/gtk/whatever is neeeded on the fly 01:55:50 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.93.170] has joined #lisp 01:56:04 i primarily use conkeror for anything with low presentation requirement for data, cli for most everything else and on th eodd occasion a gtk/kde app 01:56:06 holycow: I use xmonad as a window manager 01:56:13 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.93.170] has left #lisp 01:56:43 the line between cli/html5/higher end local apps is blurring for me because i am not constrained now by someones subset of ideas of what a toolkit is any longer 01:56:45 antgreen` [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 01:57:00 Zhivago: well yeah i mean you are right, with hardware accelerated multithreaded browsers 01:57:08 one can just use that instead sure 01:57:29 html as a toolkit has replaced most of my clients applications frontends 01:57:45 fairly adequately even without html for the average business users 01:57:51 with html5 i mean 01:57:58 -!- antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:58:00 without *grrr* 01:58:29 most apps that i interact with can be delivered over the cli 01:59:01 and i'm slowly gravitating to emacs/cli simply because the other stuff is usually so focused on making the ui work that access to data is somehow obscured 01:59:10 The web is starting to scare me 01:59:23 holycow: html5 also lends itself to using a command stream. 01:59:35 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-118-114.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:59:35 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:59:36 the general thought behind forcing apps to write 'api' style access to their applications would be to focuse the devs on making usefull apps on top of which they layer gui's as required 01:59:38 holycow: Instead of callbacks, just enqueue. 01:59:46 I really don't like this idea of sending my data for computation on someone else's machine 02:00:08 drdo: Then, don't. :) 02:00:14 well html5 + a local webserver + replication native to the server would solve it 02:00:28 its not that different from having a gui embedded in the application server binary as we are used to it 02:00:42 brandonz [~brandon@c-76-102-192-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:00:47 its just that no one writes application servers (web) in a way that is that portable 02:00:54 I'd like to see some of the ideas of clim used with html5, but not enough time :( 02:01:09 I think that presentations and the commands would be a good fit. 02:01:30 what i'd like to see is taking mcclim and seeing how far it can go 02:01:37 holycow: If it evolves that way, i don't think you would actually use a web server locally just to display a gui 02:01:45 html5 and all that is nice but it is encumbered by w3c and extremely large organizations driving it 02:02:22 if the skills/creativity/time is there, experimenting with a small subset of hardware/dev environtments (say sbcl) and seeing how far one can push might be interesting 02:02:46 holycow: What does that matter, at this point? 02:02:52 drdo well you would for any application show 'interface/local logic' download requirements are greater than the available bandwidth at the host 02:02:54 so 02:02:55 think photoshop 02:03:04 its not a regular app, its a giant monster 02:03:26 Irrelevant analogy. 02:03:44 you would download the lisp interface/logic and run it against a local server as opposed to an online server 02:03:59 Anyone know how I can get access to hunchentoot's request variables? I'm trying a lot of different thing, but getting anything :P 02:04:05 -!- rfg [~rfg@81.102.108.60] has quit [Quit: rfg] 02:04:08 there is no clear distinction to me between local and web based if we ignore some of the edge cases 02:04:23 seangrove: did you try hunchentoot:parameter? 02:04:25 holy: Well, there's always nativeclient ... 02:04:28 To be honest there haven't been any real advances on UI design in a long time 02:04:54 drdo: No. I think that html is a real advance. 02:05:00 Zhivago: well, it matters only as far as personal taset i suppose. my living is not dependent on software development so i can dream i guess 02:05:06 Zhivago: What does it bring? 02:05:14 drdo: Forces people to use an introspectable tree. 02:05:21 drdo: true, just reinvention of how it is described 02:05:44 Zhivago: That's not a UI innovation 02:05:56 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-106-138-18.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 02:06:00 That's merely UI representation 02:06:14 drdo: That's an amazing UI innovation. 02:06:26 -!- jeti [~user@p54B462F4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:06:28 drdo: Which is why it's taken so long to hit anything mainstream. 02:06:58 What do you mean? 02:07:41 makao007 [~makao007@61.142.209.146] has joined #lisp 02:07:43 Does anything else that it used by anyone have anything like that? 02:08:29 Just think of how hard it is to add a dictionary lookup interface that operates on a traditional program, for example. 02:09:10 The same thing with html is trivial because it forces people to use an introspectable representation in a standard form for their displays -- although I guess canvas weakens that a bit. 02:09:25 Zhivago: That's not what i mean at all 02:09:52 It's what I mean -- it's a major innovation in UI -- an accepted forced consensus. 02:09:57 That doesn't affect the end user pretty much at all 02:10:18 My point is that most applications and/or websites are hard to use 02:10:46 rfg [~rfg@81.102.108.60] has joined #lisp 02:11:19 The question to ask now is -- why do you believe this? 02:11:23 drdo: that is exactly how i feel 02:11:36 and most websites present exactly the type of data 02:11:38 Zhivago: Because i use them, and they are not easy to use 02:11:45 wtih primitive forms widgets 02:12:16 drdo: Well, that's not a useful metric. 02:12:16 This "point-and-click" paradigm that seems to be running rampant is quite terrible 02:12:36 It provides a learning curve that is pretty much flat 02:12:37 _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has joined #lisp 02:12:49 That might be good for someone who uses such UI once a month 02:13:01 But it's terrible for someone who spends several hours a day doing so 02:13:08 -!- rfg [~rfg@81.102.108.60] has quit [Client Quit] 02:14:06 drdo: lol i thought i was the only one that noticed this 02:14:23 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has left #lisp 02:14:46 holycow: Pretty sure everyone that uses a computer a lot notices this trend 02:15:15 not the clients i work with, most of them have a hard time with basic computer usage :) 02:15:17 however 02:16:02 while they are willing to put up with 'if i just memorize the geometry of the ui i will be able to use the app' i think the issue is not so much that they are dumb 02:16:11 they have been taught how to think about computers the wrong way 02:16:27 No one said anything about anyone being dumb 02:16:36 meaning they have been tossed into a barbie doll interface with no way to 'grow' beyond that paradigm 02:16:58 and my thought is if every app had a natural api/cli interface by default (okay i'm dreaming here but run with it) 02:17:28 you can give the users the clicky clicky to start with, grow them into shortcuts, grow them into commands and slowly get them into basic scripting 02:17:47 -!- Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:17:50 you won't ever get them to be programmers that is a whole other barrier that cannot be overcome 02:18:03 but the transition should be there natively imho 02:18:15 If you think big enough, you never have to do it. 02:18:37 how 'big' do you mean? 02:19:06 A big problem i have is that most software is really hard to customize 02:19:12 right 02:19:29 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:19:30 It should be simple to do simple things 02:19:37 yup 02:20:55 Again, html5 helps here because it reveals the entry-points in a duplicable manner. 02:21:16 You can copy the code that's run when a button is clicked, and use it in an alternate interface. 02:21:33 my problem with html5 is javascript 02:21:35 lol :) 02:21:43 Zhivago: This issue is not specific to UIs 02:21:49 but to true programmers that ought not matter one bit 02:22:04 holycow: what's the problem with javascript? 02:22:16 It's quite ok as the assembly of the web 02:22:20 its just personal taste, i can't explain it but i cannot stand it 02:22:25 It could be way way worse 02:22:34 sure but it could be common lisp too 02:22:36 :) 02:22:37 haha! 02:22:44 that would be a terrible choice 02:22:58 well for the web as it stands currently yes 02:23:08 within a native lisp environment, what difference would it make? 02:23:25 what difference does it make to you? 02:23:49 again its just personal taste, i'm learning lisp because i really like it 02:23:51 You're not supposed to hand-write javascript anyway, you compile to it 02:24:29 javascript is pretty close to a lisp without macros. 02:25:16 yep 02:25:41 look at it from this perspective 02:26:12 Zhivago: is very smartly pointing out, don't reinvent the wheel. html5 is here, there is an infinite number of frameworks and dev tools out there, just go with the source luke 02:26:49 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755938.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:27:03 i'm looking at it from the other side from where i have no pressure to make a living off of producing production code and go, oh hey, we can do all of this here in lisp already, why not see how much can be done withing this realm 02:27:33 which simply leads back to the original question, when the code meets the pavement, wtf does mcclim do about any of these 'layers' 02:27:35 lol 02:27:50 holycow: You learned about lisp recently didn't you? 02:27:59 yes 02:28:07 It's easy to tell :) 02:28:17 i've never hidden it :) 02:29:40 What's the standard way to configure ASDF to output compiled files to a specified location, in .asd files or by lisp code? I'm using ASDF 2.010, it seems to have changed significantly. 02:29:46 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.90.2] 02:30:13 holycow: Nothing wrong with that, as long as you lean toward interoperability. 02:30:39 holycow: In my observation, what has mainly crippled lisp useage has been an isolationist tendency. 02:30:39 Zhivago: *nod* learning lisp first of course and asking lots of stupid questions while hoping not to annoy anyone too much 02:31:29 reading history on the topic, some interesting decisions by vendors combined with market inertia around the personal computer didn't help any eitehr 02:31:31 either 02:32:21 huangjs`: the manual is ok at explaining how to do that 02:32:28 huangjs`: http://l1sp.org/asdf/manual 02:32:55 Xach: yes, I'm reading it, but i couldn't find it. 02:32:57 holycow: Well, more of the same, really. 02:33:09 holycow: Magical environments. 02:33:33 Zhivago: I'd like to hear about that, i've always wondered why it isn't popular 02:33:53 btw, i appreciate everyone entertaining my questions today about mcclim 02:34:04 a lot has been answered, i appreciate the input from everyone 02:34:28 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: nighty night] 02:34:33 drdo: Well, lisp systems have tended to play poorly with others, and essentially run their own little bubble oses. 02:34:49 Zhivago: Sure, but look at Java 02:35:02 It boggles my mind everyday how it can be popular 02:35:18 drdo: Java mainly became popular with servlets. 02:35:34 drdo: It still isn't a popular choice for normal applications. 02:35:37 It's really really painful to program in java 02:35:43 Java has had huge companies with huge marketing budgets promoting it 02:35:55 -!- antgreen` [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:36:24 Java has many advantages in corporate environments. 02:36:25 jimrthy: I don't see how that matters, this isn't the fashion industry 02:36:42 Zhivago: such has? 02:36:43 drdo: I think that to a large extent, it is. 02:36:53 I wasn't paying any attention "back in the day," but Sun totally undercut Genera 02:36:53 -!- huangjs` [~user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:37:09 huangjs [~user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has joined #lisp 02:37:17 drdo: reading up on history, a lot of programming specific choice seem to be fashion-like 02:37:31 it doesn't even seem to be right tool for the right job 02:38:02 it all reads like good enough to be good enough 02:38:21 I could be (and probably am) totally wrong...but Java doesn't rule the Enterprise because it's a superior language 02:38:23 drdo: A lack of extensibility. Static typing with separate compilation and dynamic linkage. A strong namespace hierarchy. Garbage collection. Run time exceptions. Bounds checking. 02:38:51 How is lack of extensibility an advantage? 02:38:53 drdo: A good fit for the corporate drone working away under the fierce eye of a systems architect. 02:39:24 drdo: It reduces the cost of superficial code comprehension. 02:39:32 I could understand static typing i guess 02:40:02 drdo: Vendor lockin 02:40:25 you also have forests of libraries 02:40:38 With extensibiity, you need to understand all of the local extensions in order to read code. 02:40:41 plus programmer lazyness 02:40:51 Without it, you can just dive into a random chunk of code and expect to understand the syntax. 02:40:57 holycow: plenty of languages have forests of libraries 02:41:11 Zhivago: That's not a real benefit 02:41:28 drdo: It is an enormous benefit for maintenance. 02:41:37 You might understand the syntax, but what does that matter? What you want to understand are the semantics of the code 02:41:48 drdo: But it's a *perceived* benefit 02:41:52 And not being able to extend syntax leads to code that is way harder to understand 02:41:54 drdo: It means that given a bug report a random programmer can dive in and locate the error and probably fix it without learning anything much in the process. 02:43:02 But what intrigues me the most is not that it's forced by managers and such 02:43:08 It seems that a lot of people enjoy it 02:43:10 Zhivago: And corporate managers like the idea that they can just plug and play programmers 02:43:23 And that's what i really don't understand 02:43:34 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-168.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:43:54 drdo: You obviously don't fit the requirements to be a PHB 02:44:23 I guess java is nice if you want to pretend to be working 02:44:41 drdo: BTW, that was meant as a compliment 02:45:04 drdo: lol! 02:45:07 drdo: And I totally agree with you about java 02:45:34 I can understand people liking python and ruby and whatnot 02:45:43 oconnore__ [~eric@ip68-225-113-244.mc.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:45:45 But Java i really don'tt 02:45:47 *don't 02:45:58 -!- oconnore__ [~eric@ip68-225-113-244.mc.at.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:46:55 given how much people love things like python and ruby i've always wondered why more people didn't use common lisp 02:48:04 I think that the answer lies in the popularity of php. 02:48:04 the bridge between ruby and lisp seems a lot shorter than c++ and lisp 02:48:27 Zhivago: Please don't remind me of that, that's even worse than Java 02:48:45 People have a strong, and understandable, preference for things that are superficially simple. 02:48:48 But that trend is going away anyway, php is thankfully dying 02:49:19 Zhivago: I like simple languages 02:50:04 There is a difference between superficially simple and fundamentally simple. 02:50:13 Superficial similarity comes through in strong idioms. 02:50:18 Yes, i know what you mean 02:51:19 "Programming languages should be designed not by piling feature on top of feature, but by removing the weaknesses and restrictions that make additional features appear necessary." 02:51:30 This pretty much sums up what i think is the proper way to design a language 02:51:31 interesting that you say that 02:51:40 -!- xan_ [~xan@26.Red-88-24-228.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:51:54 the single nicest feature for a noob like me about common lisp (say sbcl implementation) is that when i read the code i am focusing on what the code does 02:51:57 Xach: could you point out some examples to me? I was using 2.009 and set asdf::*user-cache* and it worked fine, but it doesn't seems to work in 2.010 anymore 02:52:03 form argument, form argument, etc 02:52:23 with pretty well anything else i spend an inordinate amount of time parsing what the hell is actually being said by the code 02:53:17 huangjs: what do you want to do with the fasls? 02:53:35 with common lisp it is *almost* as simple as looking up what the form expects in terms of just simply getting in there and doing stuff 02:53:47 Xach: store them to ./fasl/ 02:53:53 jweiss [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:57:30 huangjs: . meaning the directory in which the .lisp file appears? 02:59:26 _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has joined #lisp 02:59:59 Xach: ah, my bad, I meant to store them in the fasl// relative to project's root directory. 03:00:15 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has left #lisp 03:01:22 huangjs: Sorry, I don't have the time to provide an example, but you might be able to get some examples by asking the asdf mailing list. 03:01:35 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has left #lisp 03:08:51 -!- eldragon [~eldragon@84.79.67.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:12:12 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-acaofotqelwvbeud] has joined #lisp 03:14:50 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:14:53 dz0004455 [~dz0004455@c-98-198-92-3.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:15:49 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-065.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:15:51 Is it possible to TRACE functions that are not bound on the toplevel? 03:24:41 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.55.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:25:45 Taiyou` [~Taiyou@bas3-toronto47-1242432918.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 03:27:57 drdo: I believe some implementation provide a way to do that. 03:30:15 -!- Taiyou` [~Taiyou@bas3-toronto47-1242432918.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:31:10 echo-area 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[~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 04:06:48 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@170-84-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:07:34 lemoinem [~swoog@12-74-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 04:08:50 -!- Intensity [kXALUkxmEn@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:09:40 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:10:11 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:13:01 -!- easyE [1L1dGN4YxC@panix2.panix.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:13:31 -!- az [~az@p5796CE46.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:16:20 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:16:21 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:16:33 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:18:21 Good morning everyone! 04:20:16 SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 04:21:24 az [~az@p5796C8D1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:24:39 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 04:29:49 -!- pepone [~pepone@121.246.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:32:24 Intensity [CoFsRM7gjg@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 04:34:45 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-93-54.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:34:53 -!- moxiemk1 [~moxiemk1@ETSY.RES.CMU.EDU] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:35:42 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-129-21.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:35:58 -!- kmwallio [~kmwallio@host113-70.brownlie.fit.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:36:38 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-9-4.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:43:11 -!- ASau 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stassats changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: SBCL 1.0.45, mega1 p0wns hordes of C++ and Java programmers using his mad AI skillz (http://ai-contest.com/), ABCL 0.23.1, Bordeaux-Threads 0.8.0, CMUCL 20b, SBCL User Survey http://random-state.net/sbcl-survey-2010.html 06:58:15 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 07:00:42 -!- Nshag [~shag@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 07:00:51 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 07:01:18 -!- boysetsfrog [~nathan@123-243-214-176.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:01:56 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 07:04:37 mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 07:04:37 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-75-35-251.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 07:04:37 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:05:42 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:07:12 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 259 seconds] 07:10:53 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:11:34 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 07:13:20 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 07:15:28 daniel___ [~daniel@p5082AE5D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:17:02 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082B075.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:21:37 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 07:23:27 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:24:21 flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has joined #lisp 07:24:22 -!- flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has quit [Changing host] 07:24:22 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 07:25:26 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 07:32:44 cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.20.223] has joined #lisp 07:32:52 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-19-101.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:33:40 -!- TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@203-214-84-9.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Disconnected by services] 07:34:10 TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@124-171-205-49.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 07:37:09 boysetsfrog [~nathan@123-243-214-176.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:41:03 -!- kanru [~kanru@2001:c08:3700:ffff::27:a5b9] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 07:44:29 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:45:11 aidalgol [~user@114-134-9-4.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 07:45:44 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:47:03 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:47:22 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 07:47:30 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 07:47:39 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-fofohoiequkvrdap] has joined #lisp 07:49:18 kanru [~kanru@2001:c08:3700:ffff::27:c41f] has joined #lisp 07:52:18 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:53:29 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@host133-108-dynamic.54-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:56:19 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:56:49 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 07:57:08 -!- taus [~taus@1503023312.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 07:58:30 -!- SecretAg1nt is now known as SecretAgent 07:58:37 e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-vgcxryhuepjwmqsj] has joined #lisp 07:58:51 easyE [AV8Y0gYMuh@panix2.panix.com] has joined #lisp 08:00:59 -!- daniel___ is now known as daniel 08:03:20 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 08:05:22 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-14-47.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:07:09 xan_ [~xan@26.Red-88-24-228.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:07:11 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:07:28 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:07:41 Arelius [43aa2161@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.170.33.97] has joined #lisp 08:09:05 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-60-17.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:09:05 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 08:09:25 SsvRrwQ [~SsvRrwQ@S0106001c1122940c.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 08:09:34 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 08:10:19 I'm getting the error "The value 82 is not of type CHARACTER." using s-utils:copy-stream from a file. Does this ring any bells for anyone? 08:12:28 <|3b|> judging by the docs, you need to either give it character streams, or a buffer capable of holding elements that match the stream 08:13:19 Hmm 08:13:33 :/ 08:14:15 The problem is that s-http-client uses it to send files. I need to send binary files. 08:15:46 xinming_ [~hyy@122.238.78.47] has joined #lisp 08:16:42 -!- xan_ [~xan@26.Red-88-24-228.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:18:10 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:18:52 -!- xinming [~hyy@115.221.5.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:19:46 lambder [~lambder@adsl-75-21-73-17.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:24:57 Jabberwockey [~jgrabarsk@selene.ftk.de] has joined #lisp 08:28:58 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:30:05 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:31:12 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:31:15 -!- DONKEYS_GALORE [~valq@c-66-235-32-232.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:31:30 udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-fiojafbdbbtvdeho] has joined #lisp 08:31:57 bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.232.132] has joined #lisp 08:35:43 Arelius: use drakma 08:36:13 Yeah, Was just hoping that I'd be able to use cl-s3 08:36:15 -!- trigen is now known as trigen-away 08:37:22 -!- trigen-away [~MSX@ec2-46-51-179-218.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has left #lisp 08:37:42 trigen [~MSX@ec2-46-51-179-218.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 08:42:22 <|3b|> Arelius: maybe try zs3 instead? 08:42:35 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 08:44:01 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-fdtnhcggvtljselm] has joined #lisp 08:44:01 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-fdtnhcggvtljselm] has quit [Changing host] 08:44:01 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 08:45:25 -!- udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-fiojafbdbbtvdeho] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:45:59 |3b|: Huh, I will. Wish this was better documented 08:46:13 zs3 doesn't seem to be installing with quickload tough 08:46:17 though* 08:47:52 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:51:13 Hmm, puri in particular isn't installing 08:51:30 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:54:36 mishoo [~mishoo@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 08:54:45 udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-spcahqokrejsnodz] has joined #lisp 08:57:42 -!- Arelius [43aa2161@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.170.33.97] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:57:44 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:58:48 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:59:00 -!- sysfault [exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:59:25 xan_ [~xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 08:59:25 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 09:02:29 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 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#lisp 09:26:50 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75427f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:35:54 e-user1 [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-ihwtpdwvferhdjzf] has joined #lisp 09:36:55 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-vgcxryhuepjwmqsj] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:40:18 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:46:28 -!- symbole_ [~user@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:47:52 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:49:17 petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:51:11 prabuinet [75c1d39c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.117.193.211.156] has joined #lisp 09:51:57 hello, anybody know how to display errors when parsing with metasexp 09:52:49 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:53:52 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 10:00:59 yoonkn [~yoonkn@112.221.19.139] has joined #lisp 10:02:39 H4ns``` [~user@p579F8C45.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:03:30 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.58.5] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:03:35 -!- prabuinet [75c1d39c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.117.193.211.156] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:06:13 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 10:06:41 -!- H4ns`` [~user@p579F8EAF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:09:29 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 10:09:46 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 10:12:33 Taiyou` [~Taiyou@bas3-toronto47-1242432918.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 10:15:01 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Quit: Smoke was slowly rising as the light began to fade] 10:18:05 -!- p_l|home [~pl@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:18:10 Hun [~Hun@80.81.19.29] has joined #lisp 10:19:58 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 10:22:35 p_l|home [~pl@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 10:23:29 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-1-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:23:55 -!- udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-bohofsjmilxxyliv] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:24:55 udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-rigkmldjsynsfniv] has joined #lisp 10:25:17 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-acaofotqelwvbeud] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:25:25 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-aswmebvwzlqhyach] has joined #lisp 10:26:47 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 10:28:23 -!- az [~az@p5796C8D1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:28:37 -!- e-user1 [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-ihwtpdwvferhdjzf] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:28:43 stdDoubt [~ptiago@a79-169-47-40.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 10:28:50 how to reset lisp top-level? 10:29:05 reset to what? 10:30:32 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:31:01 clear up the environment 10:31:12 -!- ignas [~ignas@88-222-145-120.meganet.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:31:23 restart your lisp 10:32:03 is there a way to do it without restarting? 10:32:14 otherwise we need to know what implementation 10:32:20 sbcl 10:32:20 stdDoubt: no 10:32:23 stdDoubt: only if the implementation provides one, haven't heard of one 10:32:34 stdDoubt, is restarting a problem? 10:32:36 what's so bad with restarting? 10:32:49 and what needs to be cleared up 10:32:53 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-1-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:33:16 if you use slime, you just type ,restart in the repl 10:33:25 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-78-35-152-124.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:33:28 in this case it won't be a biggie...symbols that are shadowing other definitions 10:35:17 yakov [~yzaytsev@213.170.102.170] has joined #lisp 10:36:52 thanks 10:37:00 az [~az@p5796C6F1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:38:38 homie 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[Quit: Leaving] 10:56:33 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive_] 10:57:37 yakov [~yzaytsev@213.170.102.170] has joined #lisp 10:58:23 -!- yakov [~yzaytsev@213.170.102.170] has quit [Client Quit] 10:59:25 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:00:07 serichsen [~user@switch1.elmi.uni-bonn.de] has joined #lisp 11:00:09 Hello! 11:00:41 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-1-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:02:28 sysfault [exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has joined #lisp 11:04:22 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-129-69.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 11:04:47 hi 11:06:54 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.58.232.132] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:08:19 SolarBoom [~Nurlan@85.132.44.35] has joined #lisp 11:08:57 e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-ctzqurprvrgdguhg] has joined #lisp 11:14:51 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@114.84.198.38] has joined #lisp 11:23:04 Bronsa 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[~makao007@61.142.209.146] has joined #lisp 12:26:18 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75427f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:27:59 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:28:58 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:29:41 ASau` [~user@95-26-159-226.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 12:29:49 -!- yakov [~yzaytsev@183.49.62.92.nienschanz.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:31:00 scaphe [~soaexpert@201-92-250-157.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 12:33:12 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:34:06 -!- ASau [~user@89-178-188-29.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:35:57 knobo [~user@138.80-202-64.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 12:37:07 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:40:46 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 12:43:35 ASau`` [~user@95-26-92-70.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 12:43:44 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:44:46 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 12:47:20 -!- ASau` [~user@95-26-159-226.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:49:00 ironChicken [~richard@195.3.137.108] has joined #lisp 12:50:56 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:52:23 rff [~rff@ip72-207-243-174.br.br.cox.net] has joined #lisp 12:53:39 urandom__ [~user@p548A3767.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:53:45 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:54:47 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ycvjtshhmjuqufso] has joined #lisp 12:55:08 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ycvjtshhmjuqufso] has quit [Client Quit] 12:55:52 how can i make a function call search that will receive this as input (search "file.problem" :something) ?? 12:56:14 (defun search(file something) ??? 12:56:23 what will something be? 12:56:45 uh, whatever you want to search for? 12:59:28 k but i just don't undestand what :somthing means as an argument 12:59:41 file.problem is a string 12:59:41 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 12:59:49 but :something is what? 13:00:39 it's hard to make sense of your question without seeing the context. perhaps you want to ask the TA to explain it to you better? 13:01:06 k thx 13:02:37 <|3b|> :something is a symbol (specifically a keyword symbol) 13:02:55 Zephyrus__ [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 13:03:20 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-19-101.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:03:44 <|3b|> the symbol is interned in the KEYWORD package, and is probably named "SOMETHING" 13:06:25 a k 13:06:29 mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:06:32 thx 13:07:21 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:08:35 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:08:55 -!- upwardindex [~Adium@modemcable004.209-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:09:41 Bad case of SMSization there. 13:10:01 ignas [~ignas@88-222-145-120.meganet.lt] has joined #lisp 13:11:18 -!- makao007 [~makao007@61.142.209.146] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:11:41 makao007 [~makao007@61.142.209.146] has joined #lisp 13:12:20 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:14:43 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:15:48 -!- silenius [~silenus@cpe-76-87-89-40.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:16:15 silenius [~silenus@cpe-76-87-89-40.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:18:32 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.20.223] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:24:45 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 13:25:23 -!- 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joined #lisp 13:56:22 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host170-181-dynamic.6-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:57:26 -!- craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:59:36 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-130-238.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:06:29 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 14:07:30 -!- serichsen [~user@switch1.elmi.uni-bonn.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:17:28 hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-174.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 14:18:54 -!- jimrthy [~jimrthy@ip68-13-249-220.ok.ok.cox.net] has left #lisp 14:20:30 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 14:23:13 -!- kanru [~kanru@2001:c08:3700:ffff::27:eb0b] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 14:24:51 Unhammer [~user@c2D3976D9.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #lisp 14:26:23 is there some ~F I can send to format that will output "~A~40F~A" s.t. the second ~A is always indented to at least column 40? 14:27:27 ~T? 14:27:27 oh doh ~40T actually works, I was just mistyping :) 14:28:45 craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 14:32:36 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.52.51] has joined #lisp 14:34:19 -!- dfox_ [~dfox@ip-213-220-225-182.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:34:45 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:35:45 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 14:40:07 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp3255.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: A subtle thought that is in error may yet give rise to fruitful inquiry that can establish truths of great value.] 14:40:15 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:41:00 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:42:12 sysfault [exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has joined #lisp 14:45:14 salva_oz [~kvirc@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 14:45:31 -!- sysfault [exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:46:47 -!- chrnybo [~user@148.122.202.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:48:11 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:48:32 -!- ASau`` is now known as ASau 14:48:40 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-130-238.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:50:00 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-35-130-238.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:51:10 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:52:41 pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:ddfc] has joined #lisp 14:53:29 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:53:49 -!- benny [~benny@i577A3EA7.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:53:56 benny [~benny@i577A2B3A.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 14:56:41 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp3255.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 14:57:18 brandonz [~brandon@c-76-102-192-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:01 -!- makao007 [~makao007@61.142.209.146] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:00:53 -!- ASau [~user@95-26-92-70.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:01:43 ASau [~user@95-26-92-70.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 15:03:08 -!- craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:03:24 X-02 [~kohei@p2185-ipbf310kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:04:59 hi there, is there sth like (make-binary-stream) in CL? I just find that for string. 15:05:20 minion: flexi-streams? 15:05:21 flexi-streams: FLEXI-STREAMS is a library which implements "virtual" bivalent streams that can be layered atop real binary/bivalent streams. http://www.cliki.net/flexi-streams 15:05:49 Oh, thank you very much, both. 15:05:54 so, the answer is no, not in CL 15:06:51 Thanks. But how is it implemented as a library? Using sth implementation-dependent? 15:07:05 Might be handy to have the slime streams (on top of gray streams) as a library 15:07:30 -!- ignas [~ignas@88-222-145-120.meganet.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:07:32 chrnybo [~user@148.122.202.244] has joined #lisp 15:07:46 X-02: it's using gray streams 15:08:04 and gray streams is an extension to CL 15:08:57 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:09:07 Ah, I found sb-gray in SBCL. I totaly understood, thanks so much. 15:10:32 if you want to use gray streams yourself, you'd better use trivial-gray-streams 15:12:14 There are several libraries.. Thx. I'll check them. 15:13:02 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:15:19 X-02: trivial-gray-streams bridgs incompatibilities between various implementations 15:15:27 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 15:15:45 http://lisp.geek.nz/weekly-repl/ has gigamonkey's ILC talk audio! 15:17:23 iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-150-241.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 15:20:45 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-24-4-147-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:23:31 -!- mbohun [~user@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:26:27 mbohun [~user@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 15:26:44 johanbev [~johanbev@189.80-203-45.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 15:27:39 -!- mbohun [~user@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:32:10 what's that function that concatenates a list of strings all together into one string with a specifiable delimiter in between them? 15:32:32 dto: format 15:33:14 oh really? 15:34:01 dto: (format nil "~{~a~^delimiter~}" my-list-o-strings) 15:34:54 I made a string-join function for myself that's a little more efficient, but there's nothing else really built in 15:37:13 kanru [~kanru@2001:c08:3700:ffff::28:b150] has joined #lisp 15:40:04 interesting. 15:40:07 -!- iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-150-241.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:40:09 thanks dlowe 15:40:15 fgump [~gump@cpat001.wlan.net.ed.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:41:11 redline6561 [~redline@gate-30.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 15:41:15 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:42:36 rme [~rme@pool-70-106-138-18.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:43:44 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:44:33 -!- redline6561 [~redline@gate-30.spsu.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 15:46:18 redline6561 [~redline@gate-30.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 15:46:18 -!- 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17:11:58 fiveop [~fiveop@178.2.109.24] has joined #lisp 17:13:07 sadeness [~zebadaia@altlinux/developer/sadeness] has joined #lisp 17:13:57 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:14:07 -!- sadeness is now known as sadeness_ 17:14:42 Good evening everyone! 17:15:02 hi beach` 17:16:15 younder [~john@212.251.245.153] has joined #lisp 17:16:23 -!- svk_ [~kaw@svk.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:16:24 -!- rapacity [~prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:17:35 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-35-130-238.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:17:54 -!- xristos [~x@2001:470:8859:cafe:20c:29ff:fe47:788] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:17:56 Remember that old talk on M expressions in the 60's . well look at this paper from 1966 www.cs.cmu.edu/~crary/819-f09/Landin66.pdf 17:18:04 svk_ [~kaw@svk.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 17:18:25 practically Haskel notation.. 17:18:40 xristos [~x@2001:470:8859:cafe:20c:29ff:fe47:788] has joined #lisp 17:18:45 -!- xristos is now known as Guest15192 17:19:12 Otherwise been reading 'Land of Lisp'.. 17:19:15 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-158-125.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:19:19 -!- beach` is now known as beach 17:19:20 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 17:19:20 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-130-238.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:19:24 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 17:19:40 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 17:19:46 Not bad. If terribly delayed.. 17:19:46 rapacity [~prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has joined #lisp 17:19:47 syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-217-213.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:20:05 your review? 17:21:42 Well I like the technicals. But I would have used CLOS for the SVG interface. Otherwise funny and well written. Mostly for beginners. 17:23:00 dym [~dym@217.20.175.226] has joined #lisp 17:23:36 There is a chapter available for view at http://www.lisperati.com. 17:23:54 -!- pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:ddfc] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:24:01 pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:ddfc] has joined #lisp 17:24:05 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-1-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:25:40 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 17:26:48 Clearly A PG fan.. but not overdone (drenched in macro's) 17:26:55 -!- rafl [rafl@goatse.co.uk] has quit [Changing host] 17:26:56 rafl [rafl@debian/developer/rafl] has joined #lisp 17:29:46 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-217-213.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:29:58 scaphe [~soaexpert@201-92-250-157.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 17:33:54 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.113.184.8] has joined #lisp 17:34:22 -!- e-user [~akahl@nat/nokia/x-nmagpmmokpphmakk] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:35:15 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:37:38 superflit [~superflit@140.226.49.160] has joined #lisp 17:38:15 Otherwise wrote a XML expansion function and a SVG CLOS style interface (rudimentary). 17:38:29 longshot [~longshot@216.131.74.24] has joined #lisp 17:39:32 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@12-74-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:39:43 josemanuel [~josemanue@207.252.217.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:39:59 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.93.89] has joined #lisp 17:40:22 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@207.252.217.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Client Quit] 17:41:40 gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 17:41:56 anyhow xml:bloatify takes a SEXP like (:svg (:circle :cx 50 :cy 50 :r 50 )) and XML's it 17:42:22 younder: who are you talking to? 17:42:33 you? 17:42:51 certainly not me 17:44:34 askatasuna [~askatasun@host230.190-3-1.static.telmex.net.ar] has joined #lisp 17:48:07 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 17:48:14 -!- iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@61.43.139.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:49:29 kritt [~kritt@189.181.91.29] has joined #lisp 17:51:25 as for 'Land of Lisp' reviews http://www.amazon.com/Land-Lisp-Learn-Program-Game/product-reviews/1593272812/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1 17:51:29 lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 17:52:24 by saying "your review?" i was referring to "terribly delayed.." 17:52:27 jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-39.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:55:35 -!- powerje [~powerj@adsl-75-49-3-95.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: powerje] 17:55:59 ah yes it was supposed to have been released 2 years ago 17:56:43 and all the preorders had been canceled 17:58:00 ok, you can stop talking about «land of lisp» _with me_, because that's not what i was talking about and i don't want to talk about what i was talking about anymore 17:58:33 fine, news coming up anyhow 17:59:22 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@178.2.109.24] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:00:23 sabalaba [~sabalaba@61.48.68.216] has joined #lisp 18:01:31 -!- vert2_ is now known as vert2 18:01:35 -!- vert2 is now known as vert2_ 18:02:01 -!- vandemar [bella@2001:470:1f10:56b::4] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:02:44 Anybody here ever do scatter plots in lisp? Any experiences/advice/etc. to share? 18:03:44 mheld_ [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:05:05 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:06:00 jesusabdullah, I use GNU plot and just generate a data file 18:06:12 -!- mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:06:12 -!- mheld_ is now known as mheld 18:06:13 I see 18:06:15 -!- Guest15192 is now known as xristos 18:06:20 -!- craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:06:21 gnuplot never really won my heart 18:06:24 francogrex [c14be4fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.75.228.252] has joined #lisp 18:06:29 eugu [~eugene@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 18:06:32 Then again, a lot of people seem to have a similar answer 18:06:49 It's either gnuplot or matplotlib these days, it seems 18:06:53 -!- francogrex [c14be4fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.75.228.252] has quit [] 18:07:19 well you can use c-gtk2 ad grind your own... 18:07:40 I suppose ;) but, y'know, time 18:08:06 Definitely something I've thought about, though! 18:08:13 Yes, I wrote one in c++ 10 yeas ago 50 000 lines of code.. 18:08:20 yessch 18:08:22 lol 18:09:14 fiveop [~fiveop@178.2.109.24] has joined #lisp 18:10:05 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:10:06 I think cgn might be the way to go 18:10:10 for now, anyway 18:10:17 http://www.cliki.net/cgn 18:10:36 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 18:11:12 an alternative is cl-svg and view it in a browseer 18:11:26 I do like svg output 18:11:37 haven't tried that yet 18:11:55 My favorite plotting libraries so far have been for javascript 18:12:08 I think 18:12:42 though, most of the big-name-ish ones suck 18:12:44 flot-- 18:12:45 Anyways 18:12:58 antgreen [~user@nat/redhat/x-jpwbzsfltfcvokzf] has joined #lisp 18:13:05 I should *probably* get my output before I start worrying about plots <_< 18:13:24 kmwallio [~kmwallio@host113-70.brownlie.fit.edu] has joined #lisp 18:13:32 Good idea ;) 18:13:56 I wish gsll had a "how to do the basics" page 18:14:01 -!- SolarBoom [~Nurlan@85.132.44.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:14:10 Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 18:14:14 #lispgames 18:14:18 oops 18:14:41 -!- gz [gz@clozure-93943513.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout] 18:15:00 http://home.gethome.no/jthing/index.html 18:15:05 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:15:13 my lisp game page 18:15:52 hmm 18:16:03 I think I would like making games with lisp 18:16:10 some lisp or other anyway, if not clisp 18:16:18 (The games were written while I was learning Lips 10 years ago and do not demonstrate good Lisp style.) 18:16:21 It seems like clojure might have the better libs 18:16:46 *jesusabdullah* learns what NOT to do 18:16:58 I use R 18:17:04 Well Clojure has all the Java libs. 18:17:07 right 18:17:07 jesusabdullah, CL has a pretty good selection of Libs 18:17:36 -!- ASau [~user@95-26-92-70.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:17:47 It has gotten better.. 18:18:11 That's good to hear. :) Means I can use the lisp I've started learning instead of switching around n' stuff 18:18:15 I have 50 extension lib's.. 18:18:29 ASau [~user@95-26-92-70.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 18:18:51 Are you using 'clbuild' ? 18:19:18 If you're talking to me: I don't know what clbuild is yet. :( 18:19:34 I basically just worked through Land of Lisp and then showed up like I know something ;) 18:20:28 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-129-69.vologda.ru] has quit [Quit:    .    ...] 18:20:34 I am, and yes you should look into it at common-lisp.net/project/clbuild 18:21:05 Oh good, I have sbcl 18:21:22 Arelius [c6865e69@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.134.94.105] has joined #lisp 18:21:27 quicklisp is another alternative as well 18:21:27 oh snap, darcs :/ 18:21:33 to clbuild 18:21:36 I've been using quicklisp 18:21:42 craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 18:21:42 installed gsll with it 18:21:45 Guthur: clbuild2 is integrated with quicklisp 18:22:02 it's a nice best-of-both-worlds solution 18:22:10 :o 18:22:12 while trying to quickload puri I get an "mmap: Cannot allocate memory" error 18:22:15 luis, cool, i haven't checked out clbuild in a while 18:22:59 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 18:23:20 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-129-69.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 18:23:30 powerje [~powerj@adsl-75-49-3-95.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:24:07 minion: memo for Fade: I applied the patch to inotify I was talking about yesterday 18:24:07 Remembered. I'll tell Fade when he/she/it next speaks. 18:24:10 Arelius: ouch! 18:24:27 Arelius: what CL implementation do you use? 18:24:33 sbcl 18:24:35 what are your ulimits? 18:24:39 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:24:57 -!- lanthan_afh [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 18:25:43 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-221-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:25:52 stassats: -d: data seg size (kbytes) 524288 -s: stack size (kbytes) 65536 18:26:11 Unhammer [~user@c2D3976D9.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #lisp 18:26:32 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:26:40 -!- Unhammer [~user@c2D3976D9.dhcp.bluecom.no] has left #lisp 18:26:56 Arelius: does it work without limits? 18:27:14 Uhm 18:27:17 *Xach* thinks "Lisp Without Limits" would be a great blog title 18:27:58 I've been thinking about setting up a lisp blog 18:28:04 I've never disabled limits, can I do that just for a single program? 18:28:05 dlowe: Excellent! 18:28:05 *younder* agrees with Xach 18:28:17 hey, and what do i get? 18:28:48 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 18:29:11 -!- sacho [~sacho@79-100-173-234.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:29:14 Arelius: ulimit -d unlimited 18:29:54 Yeah, that seemed to work 18:29:59 Are my limits too low? 18:30:22 well, if it doesn't work with them, then yes 18:30:37 I had troubles with ulimit when bastille set the process number too low. 400-500 seems acceptable. 18:30:37 why do you have them at all? 18:30:56 aurelien [~Libre@fsf/member/aurelien] has joined #lisp 18:30:58 o/ 18:31:14 stassats: Dunno, must be default with the FreeBSD install. 18:31:16 minion: swankr.git 18:31:17 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``swankr.git''. 18:31:20 minion: swankr.git? 18:31:21 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``swankr.git''. 18:31:24 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-158-125.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: "Object-oriented design" is an oxymoron] 18:31:33 leo2007: what are you doing? 18:31:55 finding the R swank backend 18:32:37 i heard about this thing called "google" or something like that 18:33:20 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:33:24 According to my search engine, swank is a porno mag 18:33:25 :( 18:33:46 rotfl 18:33:56 just slime it 18:34:01 slime it? 18:34:10 jesusabdullah: give it a hint with more context. 18:34:43 slime: common-lisp.net/project/slime 18:35:00 -!- X-02 [~kohei@p2185-ipbf310kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:35:02 I'm aware of slime, but haven't used it yet. emacs is scary yo! 18:35:07 swank is the lisp connection end of a socket interface 18:35:11 ah 18:35:28 That explains why "swank lisp" had a bunch of stuff about slime 18:35:38 though, nothing really about what swank actually was 18:35:43 Anyways 18:36:21 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-35-130-238.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:36:26 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-130-238.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:36:28 Hi, I am new to lisp, and I am looking for a GUI toolkit, so far I had found Ltk cl-gtk2, clim and a few others, but all of them seems to me that they are no longer been maintained, are my impressions right? if so, are there GUI tool kits for lisps like sbcl, clisp, cmucl (free ones) that are actually been developed? 18:36:29 francogrex [c14be4fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.75.228.252] has joined #lisp 18:36:29 Does anyone know of any writeups on using slime with lisp packages? 18:36:33 where is the "SLIME protocol" defined? 18:36:49 leo2007: in the source code 18:36:58 stassats: thanks. 18:37:07 leo2007, nowhere as far as I know 18:37:17 Hi, I vaguely remember there was a way to do this; in the CLHS search is defined as such: Returns the first element in SEQUENCE satisfying TEST with ITEM 18:37:45 sorry I meant 'find' 18:38:07 but wasn't there a way to find all occurences of the item in the sequence? 18:38:16 find finds the 'first' element , yes 18:38:48 francogrex, remove-if-not 18:38:57 <_8david> kritt: what makes you think that cl-gtk2 isn't being maintained? 18:39:04 mitre_ [~chatzilla@fl-74-4-76-189.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:27 Arelius: what do you mean by "using slime with lisp packages"? 18:39:29 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-1-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:40:02 -!- mitre [~chatzilla@fl-74-4-76-189.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:40:16 -!- mitre_ is now known as mitre 18:40:16 _8david: I found last release about a year ago. 18:40:26 stassats: Sorry, should be more clear. Working on a project that consists of multiple compilation units. Want to be able to keep them in separate namespaces but still be able to update them individually. 18:40:29 francogrex, remove-if-no can be thought of as collect-if. It is non-destructive. 18:40:50 s/no/not/ 18:41:02 younder, ok thanks I get it 18:41:07 I will try that 18:41:24 Arelius: perhaps you are thinking about ASDF 18:41:39 <_8david> kritt: slow tarball release cycles don't mean lack of development activity for most CL projects. The last commit in cl-gtk2 git was last month. 18:41:59 Xach: Vecto can't do svg or ps, can it? 18:41:59 stassats: mm, perhaps. 18:42:03 Cause that'd be pretty boss 18:42:53 whup--nvm, found the answer xach. 18:43:16 I still stand by my "Cause that'd be pretty boss" comment, however. 18:44:12 (Maybe cl-vectors itself is a better fit for that sorta thing, though.) 18:44:20 jesusabdullah: No. cl-pdf can do pdf, and has a similar API. 18:44:21 bsod1 [~osa1@188.56.145.64] has joined #lisp 18:44:43 AuroraX [AuroraX@194.210.228.24] has joined #lisp 18:45:01 _8david: Thanks, that is good to know, then I was in error, is this toolkit the best maintained as far as you know? 18:45:18 is there any debugger for lisp that allows me to check the runtime lines step by step? (like gdb) 18:45:30 Xach: Thanks. Hopefully I will remember this if/when I need it! 18:45:33 Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050064254.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:46:12 AuroraX: some lisps can do that 18:47:19 how? 18:47:43 via magic, i guess 18:48:54 drdo [~user@2001:690:2100:1b:226:8ff:fef7:3d9e] has joined #lisp 18:49:16 sohail [~Adium@76-10-165-4.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 18:49:17 -!- sohail [~Adium@76-10-165-4.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 18:49:17 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 18:49:37 ok 18:51:51 -!- francogrex [c14be4fc@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.75.228.252] has quit [] 18:52:00 <_8david> kritt: I'm not personally using it, but it looks pretty good. 18:52:15 <_8david> (I'm more interested in Qt these days.) 18:52:27 -!- craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:53:22 Is commonqt in a state where a person not interested in hacking commonqt could do something with it reasonably easily? 18:53:27 FSVO "reasonably" 18:54:28 loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.178] has joined #lisp 18:55:51 i'd say yes, but i can only tell based on the subset of Qt i'm using 18:55:51 -!- AuroraX [AuroraX@194.210.228.24] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:56:02 AuroraX [AuroraX@194.210.228.24] has joined #lisp 18:56:16 -!- AuroraX [AuroraX@194.210.228.24] has quit [Client Quit] 18:56:20 _8david: Interesting, what toolkit are you using, is CommonQt? 18:56:49 kritt: _8david is the author of commonqt 18:57:43 Xach: i think the main issue may be in installing the right libraries 18:57:46 <_8david> Xach: I find it encouraging that stassats and ivan4th have been able to basically take over (co-)maintainance of CommonQt. 18:58:12 stassats: Is it tricky to get them, or is something like apt-get likely to work ok? 18:58:12 Thats what I love about IRC, I always learn new things :-), Very pleased to know you _8david. 18:59:16 <_8david> Xach: squeeze has recent enough smoke binaries to be, well, usable. (lenny didn't.) They are already a bit out of date again, but good enough to get started, I think. 19:00:58 _8david: i had some trouble where invoking the makefile-making program put it in the current working directory (which was a quicklisp meta directory) instead of in the right place. i'll see if i can reproduce and troubleshoot it. 19:01:08 -!- Arelius [c6865e69@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.134.94.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:01:32 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.152.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:01:32 Xach: that has been fixed by ivan4th, i believe 19:01:34 several people have asked about commonqt in quicklisp but i haven't been able to build it easily. 19:01:38 stassats: excellent. 19:01:52 though it's only in my branch 19:01:56 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@85.202.112.90] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:02:25 <_8david> is ivan4th's repo a fork of yours or vice versa? 19:02:37 -!- Phoodus [~foo@174-17-245-93.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:02:49 fork of mine, but i merge it regularly, so it's the same 19:03:04 I have not tried Qt, last thing I read about was when nokia bought trolltech. :-( 19:03:23 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.64.157] has joined #lisp 19:03:25 actually cl-pdf surprised. I had expected it to be abandon-ware. But it isn't. And it is relatively complete. Two thumbs up! 19:03:55 <_8david> stassats: is one of those repos good enough to be in quicklisp? 19:04:06 <_8david> s/good/stable/ 19:04:57 <_8david> obviously I should merge your stuff into my old "official" repo, but I was thinking that ql should perhaps point to the good stuff directly in the mean time. 19:05:47 I still have a slight desire to pull from things that seem "official" in some way, rather than someone's fork. Maybe that's outdated thinking in the brave new git world. 19:06:14 -!- kmwallio [~kmwallio@host113-70.brownlie.fit.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:06:36 _8david: it contains mostly fixes, so i'd say that it's stable 19:06:59 Well the forks obviously have all the experimental stuff. 19:07:40 and i wouldn't say it's a fork, i was just putting fixes into it before i was ready to push it upstream, and it grew a little bit bigger 19:08:07 For my development is use WebKit with MathML and SVG. so I need the newest. 19:08:37 stassats: where is yours? 19:08:58 <_8david> ok. Let's just have this discussion again depending on whether or not I manage to review your stuff in a timely fashion, say within the next two weekends. 19:09:00 i'm trying to google for this, but not much's coming up: what does the 'if-let' expression do? i think it's part of alexandria 19:09:09 HTML5 and MatML haven't made it to production status yet. 19:09:14 math 19:09:23 Xach: https://github.com/stassats/commonqt 19:09:38 yan_: try looking in http://common-lisp.net/project/alexandria/draft/alexandria.html 19:10:04 <_8david> We should have some sort of common repo that we call all push to though, I think. Obviously with some rules in place, e.g. that only well-tested stuff should go in there. 19:10:12 Xach: ahh there it is, thanks. i ^F'ed through the manual and didn't see it 19:10:14 *Xach* gives it a try 19:12:58 fogus` [c6970d0f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.151.13.15] has joined #lisp 19:15:36 rff [~rff@ip72-207-243-174.br.br.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:16:13 yay, stassats' commonqt builds fine and will be in the next quicklisp release! 19:16:40 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-130-238.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:16:55 -!- hlavaty [~user@95-88-27-48-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:18:18 qt-tutorial.asd doesn't seem to asdf2 friendly 19:18:26 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:18:49 should i care about asdf1 nowadays? 19:20:03 <_8david> I don't care much about asdf1, although ISTR that the portability fix for this was actually pretty easy. 19:20:23 salva_oz [~kvirc@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 19:20:52 i guess i have asdf1 somewhere around 19:27:32 Xach: i pushed a fix for qt-tutorial.asd, so you can load it and run (qt-tutorial-14:main) 19:30:43 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:30:43 stassats: sweet. thanks. 19:32:03 I prefer gnome. Better integration for systems with runtime classes like Lisp and Python. 19:33:14 cl-gtk2 is sweet 19:34:32 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 19:35:35 I was expecting a Python like interface. A thin layer over the C lib.. Boy was I pleasantly surprised. 19:35:55 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-065.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:36:04 Joreji [~thomas@85-065.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 19:39:44 recomended 19:40:29 recommended 19:40:44 iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-150-188.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 19:41:30 sorry for the typo 19:42:37 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:44:25 _8david: what's the easiest way for you to accept a clbuild2 patch? Should I push it onto a repo at gitorious? 19:44:40 where did the haskel channel go? 19:45:14 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.40] has joined #lisp 19:46:16 dfox_ [~dfox@ip-213-220-225-182.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 19:46:21 younder: they moved to #haskell 19:47:08 -!- salva_oz [~kvirc@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.1 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 19:47:31 Doh.. 19:48:10 -!- scaphe [~soaexpert@201-92-250-157.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:49:10 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:49:20 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:52:10 -!- Taiyou` [~Taiyou@bas3-toronto47-1242432918.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:54:49 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:56:17 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 19:56:53 trebor_home [~email@dslb-088-069-137-023.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:59:04 Is the HyperSpec appropriate to reference in an academic setting? 19:59:16 <_8david> luis: do you have a user name on gitorious? 19:59:24 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A3767.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:00:12 Quadrescence: yes. 20:00:27 Quadrescence: I don't really know what that means, but I don't mind saying yes anyway. 20:00:50 I mean would one reference it in, say, a peer-reviewed journal? 20:01:00 I have a string that I wish to feed to sb-ext:run-program's :input, which accepts a stream, how can i do that? 20:01:13 trigen: you could use with-input-from-string 20:01:38 trigen: or make-string-input-stream 20:01:49 ahh okay thanks 20:02:14 Quadrescence: Sure! 20:02:24 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:03:01 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 20:03:32 Torque [~evilbooge@74.40.36.166] has joined #lisp 20:03:57 Quadrescence: yes. You could also reference the actual standard 20:04:04 s0ber_ [~s0ber@111-240-212-92.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:17 I'd prefer the latter but AFAIK it's not available for free. 20:04:33 -!- Torque [~evilbooge@74.40.36.166] has left #lisp 20:05:06 no, but you can still cite it and the text is reputedly identical to that in the CLHS 20:06:28 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-214-134.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:06:47 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 20:07:13 ch077179 [~urs@adsl-89-217-171-138.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 20:07:29 jeti [~user@p548EBAFC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:58 -!- drdo [~user@2001:690:2100:1b:226:8ff:fef7:3d9e] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:09:59 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:12:00 gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 20:12:43 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:41 _8david: I thought I did, but I can't find it right now. 20:19:52 _8david: created a new one: luismbo 20:20:51 <_8david> okay, added. Try to push your commit to clbuild2/clbuild2, please. 20:21:30 phf [~phf@38.104.111.94] has joined #lisp 20:21:53 I've been having trouble with clbuild 20:22:34 Some of the old directories it get's source from are stale 20:23:07 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-39.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:23:13 They don't work.. 20:24:09 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 20:24:13 younder: can you be more specific? 20:25:03 Well I tried to load Huncentoot the other day and had to manually load two lib's 20:25:14 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 20:25:42 -!- phf [~phf@38.104.111.94] has left #lisp 20:26:13 Further the lib's I load are not understood by clbuild which only understands loaded libs which have succeded 20:26:19 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:26:23 Phooodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 20:26:28 unicode [~user@95.214.1.137] has joined #lisp 20:26:37 younder: is this clbuild2? 20:27:26 I can't tell 20:27:52 mishoo [~mishoo@95.237.108.136] has joined #lisp 20:27:55 --version gives an error 20:28:35 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:59 git remote show origin 20:29:10 what's the Fetch URL? 20:29:37 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:30:17 lois, standard common-lisp.net address and for less that two weeks abo 20:30:18 <_8david> younder: use quicklisp! it's much better. 20:30:45 grr. 20:31:04 -!- Phooodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:31:09 s/abo/ago/ 20:31:23 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 20:31:59 I love SBCL and will probaly continue to use it #david 20:33:50 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Quit] 20:34:05 _8david: nice try. 20:34:29 -!- loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:35:37 Well I have nothing intelligent to add as I mostly progamm in ML these days. 20:36:05 s/progamm/programm/ 20:36:50 Phantom_Hoover [~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:37:22 Zach always was an arrogant ass. lol 20:37:57 I thought Zach was perfectly pleasant. 20:38:08 younder: seems like I remember you being here purely on a probationary basis 20:38:22 Zach 20:38:48 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:39:18 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 20:39:58 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:41:34 -!- fogus` is now known as fogus`away 20:42:14 Look he does not like some games I wrote when I was learning Lisp 10 years ago. And he has been hazing me for it ever since. 20:42:20 <_8david> "you can't blame me for trying" 20:42:26 *Quadrescence* feels slightly deceived by ANSI. 20:42:46 Quadrescence: why? 20:42:53 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 20:43:53 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:44:23 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.56.145.64] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:44:27 -!- pnq [~nick@AC814B0A.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:44:39 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 20:45:00 Xach: Being a good guy (and also because I want offline reading and not thru my web browser), I bought the ANSI standard. And I did indeed get the standard, but see this excerpt: http://www.symbo1ics.com/files/pgs.pdf 20:45:15 you did what? (-: 20:45:32 did you get the crappy low-resolution scan? 20:45:45 Krystof: yeah :( 20:45:55 Quadrescence: I'm sorry you didn't ask first. Almost anyone here would warn you against it. 20:45:59 wow. ok. show of hands, who else has bought that? 20:46:13 well, now all you need to do is type it all in again to get a searchable copy 20:46:32 send them the pdf and ask for your money back 20:46:41 Krystof: haha 20:46:43 Quadrescence: ugh. sorry you got scammed into this /-: 20:46:47 Xach: Well if I was going to ask anything here I'd probably ask someone to pass me a copy under the table. 20:47:12 why? This network is about free software, not about copyright violation 20:47:28 That's why I didn't ask,. 20:47:30 -, 20:48:37 Quadrescence: you could use dpans2texi to create a PDF document from the almost-ANS sources of the spec 20:48:54 disumu [~disumu@pD4B9E9A3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:49:07 that results in a document that looks very similar to the excerpt you posted above, and is way more readable 20:49:10 I found cl-pdf to be quite good.. 20:49:31 loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.178] has joined #lisp 20:49:37 the texi also gives a very good single-file html export that one can read on the kindle, for example (: 20:50:20 If I thought it'd do anything, I'd contact ANSI and ask for the TeX files which I know exist. But I am 95% sure they would not do anything. 20:50:20 (and search there, too!) 20:50:28 -!- loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.178] has quit [Client Quit] 20:50:32 antifuchs, you also have a kindle? 20:50:34 the TeX files are online 20:50:37 yeah 20:51:06 Quadrescence: you can download the last draft (which is identical to the final document) from various ftp sites on the net. it's public 20:51:12 (and it's what dpans2texi uses) 20:51:23 Translating to mobi format is better as it can translate it to native Kindle format. 20:51:39 Quadrescence: you could have said "I think I will buy the ANSI standard PDF" and there would be a chorus of "No! Don't do it!" 20:51:47 that's what I did after I had the html export. 20:52:08 Quadrescence: And you don't know what will happen until you ask. If you're not happy with the PDF, ask for a refund. 20:52:25 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 20:53:24 Xach: There's an explicit NO REFUNDS. I won't gripe more about it. It was $30. While that could have bought me lunch for the next week or so, there's not much I can do about it except have the "feel cool that I have the official low-resolution scan watermarked with my name"-feeling. 20:54:48 Quadrescence: you could contact me, i would scan clhs and add watermarks for only 20$ 20:55:20 stassats: Well okay, but you have to show proof that you printed a hard copy! 20:55:38 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:02 Quadrescence: my last suggestion is to blog about it to warn others. 20:56:57 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 20:57:19 Xach: Good idea :) 20:57:24 actually that already exists.. ;) 20:57:36 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:57:50 well a web page 20:58:31 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 20:58:52 -!- iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-150-188.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:58:53 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 20:59:13 I'm not on it. But you might notice lod classics like Xaw Lee 20:59:39 s/lod/old/ 21:01:15 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:02:23 urandom__ [~user@p548A3767.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:42 I am sure the younder boy can be added as the quintessential adder of irrelevant nonsense. 21:04:00 Now let's get back to Hunchentoot. (Not the spider, the web server) 21:04:09 -!- museun [~what@c-98-252-140-73.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [] 21:04:19 <_8david> luis: hmm, I think I can understand your desire to have asdf2 work as advertised. But IIUC, your "fix" simply undoes everything that asdf-setup.lisp had previously cleared out, because it asks asdf to set things up again. So that doesn't really make sense. 21:04:45 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:04:58 Tho libraries were included with clbuild. cffi being the important one. 21:05:13 were not 21:05:27 That should be fixed. 21:05:42 <_8david> I think my intention (however misguided it might be) was/is to have people do this sort of setup in clbuild/conf.lisp. So you'd put the (asdf:clear-source-registry) into that file, instead of hardcoding it into asdf-setup.lisp. 21:05:46 <_8david> Does that make sense? 21:05:59 I went around it and downloaded the tar. 21:06:30 Then the system doesn't realize it's loaded. 21:06:55 -!- powerje [~powerj@adsl-75-49-3-95.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: powerje] 21:06:58 <_8david> In case it's unclear: The goal of asdf-setup.lisp is to make the clbuild-installation reasonably self-contained, e.g. to prevent asdf from loading age-old nonsense installed by asdf-install five years ago into $HOME. 21:06:59 You see a compiling a wish list.. 21:07:17 s/a/I am/ 21:07:50 <_8david> clbuild has always done this by resetting the central-registry (and leading it only as a configuration option to amend it). So these days, it resets the central-registry _and_ the source registry. 21:07:59 <_8david> It's admittedly brutal but effective. 21:08:29 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@host230.190-3-1.static.telmex.net.ar] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 21:08:38 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75427f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:33 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:09:34 francogrex [~user@109.130.86.8] has joined #lisp 21:11:59 Otherwise I mostly love clbuild. 21:12:05 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@95.237.108.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:13:41 powerje [~powerj@75.49.3.95] has joined #lisp 21:14:05 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:14:06 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:15:31 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 21:15:38 Can we say procedures are first-class citizens in CL? 21:15:46 Yes. 21:16:05 They're just called functions in CL, and often are actually closures. But they're first class objects. 21:16:05 Hum. They seem to be more natural to manipulate in scheme. 21:16:36 I mean, in CL we need to use #' to tell the difference, don't we? 21:16:40 Only because scheme is a lisp-1 whilc cl is a lisp-2. But it's just a syntactic question really. 21:17:03 pjb: by that you mean two namespaces, right? 21:17:14 (function x) gives the function named x. (quote x) gives the symbol named x. 21:17:20 didi: yes. 21:17:25 minion: tell didi about lisp-2 21:17:25 didi: have a look at lisp-2: is at http://www.nhplace.com/kent/Papers/Technical-Issues.html 21:18:04 A function is totally and soly dependent on it's arguments. A procedure has side effect's. CL doesn't enforce the difference. 21:18:14 So you need to use FUNCTION to go from the function space to the value spaace, and FUNCALL to go from the value space to the function space. 21:18:43 ACL2 does for what it's woth 21:18:47 younder: in Scheme, the call all the functions procedures. (lambda ...) --> # in scheme, --> # in CL. 21:18:48 -!- OliverUv [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:19:16 (They also call tail-recursive functions iterative processes...) 21:19:16 -!- nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:19:32 http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/moore/acl2/ 21:19:48 -!- kritt [~kritt@189.181.91.29] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 21:20:45 Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 21:22:49 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:23:18 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 21:24:00 -!- churib [~tg@dslc-082-082-119-140.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:25:15 nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has joined #lisp 21:25:52 bsod1 [~osa1@188.56.252.28] has joined #lisp 21:27:27 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.52.51] has joined #lisp 21:29:07 *francogrex* tries out David O'Toole's Lisp mentioned on planet lisp. Was suspicious at first but is happily surprised. Really nice games there (playing cons rigt now) 21:30:26 Edward [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-45-201.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:30:29 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-065.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:30:46 Joreji [~thomas@85-065.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 21:34:50 craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 21:35:31 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.67.205.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:36:05 cmm [~cmm@109.67.205.172] has joined #lisp 21:36:41 Taiyou` [~Taiyou@141.117.174.151] has joined #lisp 21:37:31 annihilator [~rff@ip72-207-243-174.br.br.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:20 -!- rff [~rff@ip72-207-243-174.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:41:44 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-76-102-192-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:42:55 francogr` [~user@109.130.81.107] has joined #lisp 21:44:12 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.86.8] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:49:05 rfg [~rfg@host81-102-107-229.not-set-yet.ntli.net] has joined #lisp 21:49:05 -!- francogr` is now known as francogrex 21:49:37 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:51:11 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 21:52:45 Anyone aware of any lisp where file-position returns something other than the octet count for a character stream? 21:53:06 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-065.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:53:31 -!- powerje [~powerj@75.49.3.95] has quit [Quit: powerje] 21:54:20 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@183-15-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #lisp 21:54:23 straterra [~straterra@fuhell.com] has joined #lisp 21:54:33 Bronsa_ [~bronsa@host70-190-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 21:54:41 I'm trying to update cffi..but its failing with the message cat: cffi/_darcs/prefs/defaultrepo: No such file or directory 21:54:46 Any ideas on how to get around this? 21:55:10 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:55:15 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host70-190-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:55:27 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 21:55:41 -!- Bronsa_ is now known as Bronsa 21:56:45 straterra: delete the repo and try again? 21:56:59 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host70-190-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 21:57:15 And..how do I do that? I don't really use lisp. I'm just following this guide to compile a lisp app... http://nautilus.oshean.org/wiki/PeriscopeBuild 21:57:26 Bronsa [~bronsa@host70-190-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 21:58:08 Well..I'm not updating cffi. I'm just trying to install it 21:58:16 -!- xan_ [~xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:58:49 Joreji [~thomas@85-065.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 21:59:07 -!- fgump [~gump@cpat001.wlan.net.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:59:39 -!- ve [~a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:59:57 fgump [~gump@cpat001.wlan.net.ed.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 22:00:18 ve [~a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 22:01:30 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:02:30 tsuru [~charlie@adsl-179-29-10.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:46 straterra: you could use quicklisp to install it. 22:03:53 I hope none of you mind being quoted here: http://symbo1ics.com/blog/?p=431 ; tell me if you want your nick removed. :) 22:04:00 http://www.quicklisp.org/ 22:05:48 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.113.184.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:05:58 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.56.252.28] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:06:06 -!- ch077179 [~urs@adsl-89-217-171-138.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:08:26 Looks like the website that hosts the cffi website is messed up. Awesome. 22:08:33 err, cffi files 22:09:15 -!- ve [~a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:09:35 -!- fgump [~gump@cpat001.wlan.net.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:11:15 brandonz [~brandon@c-76-102-192-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:13:38 ve [~a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 22:14:24 straterra: works for me. 22:14:54 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A3767.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:15:35 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.52.51] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:15:52 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050064254.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:16:01 luis: What website is used to pull the data? 22:16:59 straterra: ah, I see you're try to get something from the darcs repository 22:17:03 *trying 22:17:23 straterra: we've moved to git, see the webpage for details. 22:19:05 well.. 22:19:14 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-141.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo] 22:19:16 How do I get that to work in clbuild? 22:19:43 -!- aurelien [~Libre@fsf/member/aurelien] has quit [Quit: be free!] 22:20:16 straterra: clbuild2's got the correct URL, not sure about classic clbuild. 22:21:07 straterra: in any case, you can correct the URL in your local copy of the clbuild/projects file 22:21:40 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.81.107] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:22:03 powerje [~powerj@adsl-75-49-3-95.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:22:11 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 22:22:21 xan_ [~xan@26.Red-88-24-228.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:23:17 cffi get_git http://common-lisp.net/gitweb?p=projects/cffi/cffi.git #Common Foreign Function Interface 22:23:20 Right? 22:23:48 well..with the working url heh 22:23:54 right 22:24:30 which is.. git://common-lisp.net/projects/cffi/cffi.git ? 22:24:55 that looks correct, yes 22:25:30 Quadrescence: the comments on your "Lisp has too many parentheses" blog are amazing, aren't they! 22:25:49 yes absolutely 22:25:49 Quadrescence: by the way, good idea Anterior/Dorsal ;-) 22:25:52 ;) 22:26:32 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 22:26:32 luis: I'm still getting this :/ http://pastebin.ca/2012395 22:28:22 aha...fixed it 22:28:27 Had to delete the old cffi directory 22:28:33 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:28:48 luis: There's no slime magic to inspect cffi structs yet, is there? 22:29:19 Thanks for the help 22:29:32 tcr: that idea had not ever occured to me, even 22:29:46 -!- antgreen [~user@nat/redhat/x-jpwbzsfltfcvokzf] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:29:56 We're going to need that, so I'm probably going to hack it up in the time during the year. 22:29:56 tcr: sounds like a great idea 22:30:10 Cffi should have all necessary meta information available at runtime from what I gather, right? 22:30:25 tcr: I think so, yeah. 22:30:52 Have bitfield support been added yet? 22:30:56 s/Have/Has/ 22:32:30 tcr: what sort of support? I remember some discussion about this, but not much. 22:33:08 -!- muhdik [~IceChat7@parkmobile-usa.oneringnetworks.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:33:28 retrry [~quassel@b4.vu.lt] has joined #lisp 22:34:03 I guess to have cslots with type ':bit and some :count value 22:34:08 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75427f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:35:08 Also what happens when you're using saving a core which uses a foreign library? 22:35:31 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:35:46 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:37:03 tcr: no such bitfield support yet 22:37:28 arborist [~arborist@g224208197.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 22:37:51 -!- powerje [~powerj@adsl-75-49-3-95.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 22:37:58 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:37:59 tcr: the short answer is "it's implementation dependent" :-) 22:38:06 tcr: I don't remember the long answer 22:40:15 tcr: but IIRC, the proper way to go about it is to unload all libraries before saving a core, then loading them when starting the core through some hook. 22:42:25 tcr: but if you don't care about heterogenous redistribution, your dumped core should just work without extra steps 22:43:10 hm how does that work out? 22:44:01 I mean can see that cffi might load a foreign library at fasl load time, but starting from a core doesn't involve fasl loading code, right? 22:44:47 tcr: at least SBCL handles that on its own and will load foreign libraries when starting from a core. 22:45:26 tcr: but it'll retry whatever handle CFFI used to load a foreign library, it won't use all the alternatives listed in the DEFINE-FOREIGN-LIBRARY form. 22:46:09 rff [~rff@ip72-207-243-174.br.br.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:46:28 so if you happen to load "libfoo.so" but the target system only has "libfoo.so.1" that might be a problem despite having, say, (define-foreign-library foo (:unix (:or "libfoo.so" "libfoo.so.1"))). 22:46:38 -!- annihilator [~rff@ip72-207-243-174.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:47:56 what's the "right way" to work on src in slime? i open emacs, start slime, open my .lisp file and then C-c C-c each statement as i write it, after eval'ing the defpackage/in-package.. is there a more 'correct' way to do this? 22:48:18 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 22:48:26 yan_: define an asdf system? Also do you know C-c C-k? 22:48:30 yan_: write an ASDF system to initially load your app. 22:48:41 use C-c C-c for interactive development, once everything is loaded. 22:49:00 yan_: Go into the doc/ directory of your slime checkout and type make, then take a look at slime.pdf 22:49:41 yan_: There's also http://common-lisp.net/~trittweiler/talks/slime-talk-2008.pdf 22:49:57 yan: Browsing through the archives of http://trittweiler.blogspot.com/ might also help 22:50:19 yan_: Some things changed since then, but might still be nice to pick up a couple of handy key bindings 22:53:29 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:53:59 tcr, sykopomp: thanks 22:54:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover [~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:55:07 -!- jeti [~user@p548EBAFC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:56:38 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:56:56 francogrex [~user@109.130.81.107] has joined #lisp 22:57:38 quicklist loads and functions well in linux but gives a weird error in windows (same implementation) 22:57:46 quicklisp 22:58:38 _8david: doh. any suggestion on how to proceeed? Would a clbuild.conf option be acceptable? 23:00:01 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-76-102-192-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:00:19 -!- trebor_home [~email@dslb-088-069-137-023.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:02:07 francogrex: /join #quicklisp, or submit an issue here: https://github.com/quicklisp/quicklisp-client/issues 23:02:11 anyway, f** windows. it works great in linux so it's fine 23:02:22 <_8david> luis: given that classic clbuild had a similar config option (by default it cleaned out the registry, but optionally it would only add to it), I guess that would be good. 23:02:28 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:02:40 -!- Taiyou` [~Taiyou@141.117.174.151] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:02:43 sykopomp: ok, maybe. it is a windows issue 23:03:38 unicode_ [~user@95.214.92.153] has joined #lisp 23:03:38 -!- unicode_ [~user@95.214.92.153] has quit [Client Quit] 23:03:53 unicode_ [~user@95.214.92.153] has joined #lisp 23:04:20 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:04:53 -!- unicode [~user@95.214.1.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:07:35 francogrex, which implementation 23:07:54 I managed to use QL on windows 23:08:21 I was using ccl 23:08:39 ECL-10.4.1, linux is ok, windows gives an error like .... is #\H which is not of type (integer -125 125), somethig like that 23:08:43 It actually worked with ABCL as well 23:09:15 Guthur: sbcl windows does it well; it's ECL-windows that's deficient somehow 23:09:23 umm, would be worth raising with xach though 23:09:44 francogrex: 10.4.1 is too old. 23:11:50 it seems. at least for windows I'll need a newer version 23:12:15 i had another problem report for ecl recently though 23:12:18 not sure what's up 23:13:01 Taiyou` [~Taiyou@141.117.174.151] has joined #lisp 23:13:28 -!- xan_ [~xan@26.Red-88-24-228.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:14:34 -!- dfox_ [~dfox@ip-213-220-225-182.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:14:37 aack [~user@a83-163-241-74.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 23:16:07 -!- unicode_ [~user@95.214.92.153] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:16:34 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.81.107] has quit [Quit: switching OS] 23:21:35 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 23:21:48 fgump [~gump@cpat001.wlan.net.ed.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 23:22:21 SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 23:22:32 jhuni [~jhuni@udp217774uds.hawaiiantel.net] has joined #lisp 23:22:35 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:24:43 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Client Quit] 23:25:15 -!- PCChris [~PCChris@wireless-165-124-137-47.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:25:44 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host70-190-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:27:32 lnostdal [~Lars@218.80-202-49.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 23:28:57 -!- eugu [~eugene@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:29:56 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-152-12.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 23:31:27 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:35:14 -!- Taiyou` [~Taiyou@141.117.174.151] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:35:20 Taiyou` [~Taiyou@141.117.174.151] has joined #lisp 23:36:33 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 23:37:01 -!- craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:39:25 -!- Edward [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-45-201.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:40:32 mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:40:44 I just finished implementing WITH-CHAMPIONS, which truly puts LOOP's narrow MINIMIZE/MAXIMIZE support to shame. http://paste.lisp.org/display/117406#1 It's not documented yet, it will be included in Loopless 1.1. 23:41:09 Next I'll implement WITH-REDUCERS, which will similarly KILL LOOP's SUMMING. 23:41:40 you're certainly on a mission Hexstream, hehe 23:41:55 -!- Taiyou` [~Taiyou@141.117.174.151] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:42:30 Yes. I will systematically implement equivalent or superior solutions for every LOOP feature that counts (i.e: isn't accidental complexity) 23:43:41 At first, Loopless was only "philosophically" superior, but apparently that fails to impress people. So I'll make it actually, pragmatically superior. 23:44:29 it's a tough crowd 23:44:52 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-1-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:45:10 you'll have to pull out all the stops with that one 23:45:52 Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that WITH-CHAMPIONS is a small MASTERPIECE on its own ;P I had a lot of fun with the "tournament" analogy on this one. 23:46:00 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:47:04 udzinari` [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 23:47:15 I have challengers, incumbents, ripostes, combats and other stuff in there ;P At first I had named the predicates "judges". 23:47:36 -!- udzinari` [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:48:24 i'm not sure if such a naming scheme is actually going to help adoption 23:48:35 I could be just a little less adventurous though 23:48:38 It's mostly just in the implementation. 23:49:09 -!- mejalx [~mejalx@li175-121.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 23:49:24 There's really just :on-stumble that is mildly funny in the interface. 23:58:29 mejalx [~mejalx@li175-121.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp