00:00:11 hello, can someone here tell me an interesting application of the let* special operator? 00:00:25 -!- skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:00:33 perhaps where it's used in an original way 00:01:31 -!- kaemo [~mad5ci@d38-66.icpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:02:19 skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #lisp 00:05:07 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: storm] 00:06:46 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.89.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:07:37 replete [~pete@cpe-74-64-94-88.hvc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:08:28 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.80.150] has joined #lisp 00:11:37 -!- jcw [~jcw@madder.xs4all.nl] has left #lisp 00:11:55 banisterfiend: used for sequential binding, as let doesn't guarantee binding is in the order specified 00:13:47 Doesn't let guarantee that bindings are done "all at once"? 00:14:21 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:14:22 As in, it doesn't just not guarantee that that will happen but it guarantees that it won't in general 00:14:35 how can the be done all at once if there's a dependency between the bindings? 00:15:24 I might be wrong, but I believe let is used for parallel binding (depending on the implementation and dialect) and let is sequential 00:15:34 I thought it'd always be equivalent to first evaluating all the forms and then doing the assignments 00:15:35 let* 00:15:52 .seen nyef 00:16:26 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-092-003.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:16:41 Right, that's also what I believe, "all at once" was an informal way of putting it 00:18:01 Problem arises when you have multiple bindings and one/several of them depend on a previous binding 00:18:14 banisterfiend: (let* ((a 1) (b (+ a a))) b) evaluates to 2. If you replace let* with let you'll get an error, since a is not bound when setting b. 00:18:50 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.52.76] has joined #lisp 00:19:00 <_3b> more that a isn't in scope yet than isn't bound in the LET case 00:19:29 are there any CL implementations doing actual parallel binding? 00:19:33 <_3b> since you would see an A from an enclosing scope, rather than an unbound A from that scope 00:20:05 vowyer: I mean, I was under the impression that this is well defined and always evaluates to 0: http://paste.lisp.org/display/117186 00:20:40 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:20:51 <_3b> 'binding' isn't something that actually happens, so can't really be 'parallel' or not 00:20:58 If that's incorrect it'd be handy to know 00:21:06 *rtoym* is interested to see that gcl still runs maxima's testsuite faster than all (most) other Lisps. 00:21:10 <_3b> the evaluation of the initialization forms is probably not in parallel though 00:21:54 *_3b* suspects the initialization forms must be evaluated in order for LET, but doesn't remember for sure 00:22:22 <_3b> clhs let 00:22:22 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_let_l.htm 00:22:44 <_3b> yeah, ^ explicitly says they are evaluated in order 00:23:05 That makes sense. 00:26:14 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 00:27:01 could a 'let' be useful in a langauge like python or ruby? or does it only really make sense/hvae utility in a language like lisp? 00:27:09 mbohun [~user@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:27:24 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 00:27:41 -!- kanru [~kanru@118-168-236-72.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:28:04 you have local variables in python 00:28:27 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.80.150] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:28:38 vowyer: so you dont think a let has any utility in python? what about for restricting scope of variables? (since python has wonky scope rules) 00:28:42 banisterfiend: LET by itself (without special vars) could be considered the equivalent of the common pattern of having a bunch of definitions of local variables at the beginning of a code block in C and other Algol-like languages 00:28:53 lemoinem [~swoog@102-76-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 00:29:28 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:30:30 scope in python wasn't a problem last time I used it (some years ago) local variables are local, global variables are declared with global keyword and as you'll probably use classes, then self.yourvar makes it easy to distinguish from local and instance variables 00:31:18 vowyer: well iteration variables aren't local to the iteration for one: for i in blah: xx i continues to exist after that block 00:31:18 <_3b> can you have more than 1 'local' scope in a function? 00:31:57 banisterfiend: probably as much as declaring special in CL 00:32:28 <_3b> (in python or whichever language you are comparing to that is) 00:32:57 banisterfiend: anyway, the extra functionality of LET and similar is that they can create local binding for special variables, which aren't something I encountered much outside Lisp 00:33:06 what is the better way to do the equivalent of -> (eval `(vector ,@(loop :for i from 0 below 10 collect i))) 00:33:28 <_3b> Guthur: make-array 10 :initial-contents ...)? 00:33:37 <_3b> or coerce ... 'vector 00:33:42 _3b I don't know the size 00:33:45 antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 00:33:57 <_3b> well, you rLOOP won't terminate then :p 00:33:59 10 should really be n 00:34:12 <_3b> n works in my forms just as well 00:34:14 sohail [~Adium@toronto44-3429232071.sdsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 00:34:19 -!- sohail [~Adium@toronto44-3429232071.sdsl.bell.ca] has quit [Changing host] 00:34:19 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 00:34:22 oh, wait the example is bad 00:34:44 i'll have to lisppaste for the real one though 00:35:31 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:36:10 -!- vowyer [~vowyer@OL85-74.fibertel.com.ar] has left #lisp 00:36:12 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 00:36:18 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:36:37 the real loop is this nasty -> http://paste.lisp.org/display/117187 00:36:59 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu182.queens.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:37:17 <_3b> Guthur coerce should still work 00:37:36 <_3b> or allocate a max-oct array and map-into it (or write into it in the loop) 00:37:44 <_3b> possibly with a fill-pointer 00:37:54 oh fill-pointer 00:37:58 forgot about that 00:38:28 coerce works just as nice though 00:38:37 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Client Quit] 00:38:52 <_3b> not quite, but close enough for a lot of uses 00:39:19 oh yeah, not equiv but good enough for this 00:42:56 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-252-193.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:44:21 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:44:36 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 00:44:57 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.200.120] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 00:44:57 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:45:05 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:45:07 it's funny but although it hasn't changed, the license to cl-http doesn't seem so bad now 00:47:10 i guess you get used to dealing with more open source license diversity 00:49:03 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-173-171.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:50:32 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.58.222] has joined #lisp 00:54:25 -!- jstypo [~jstypo@190.200.25.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:55:53 -!- banisterfiend [~horse@118.82.186.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:59:00 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:00:36 billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 01:02:41 -!- peoplehater is now known as sdsds 01:05:11 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483B174.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:05:28 thom_logn [~thom@pool-74-100-140-188.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:11:07 banisterfiend [~horse@115.189.240.72] has joined #lisp 01:16:53 _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has joined #lisp 01:18:35 -!- rff [~rff@ip72-207-243-174.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:18:56 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has left #lisp 01:19:14 -!- jeti [~user@p548EBAEB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:19:31 tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 01:21:54 _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has joined #lisp 01:23:59 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-9-4.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:24:22 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.52.76] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:25:55 sellout- [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:26:02 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has left #lisp 01:26:59 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:27:02 -!- sellout- is now known as sellout 01:27:21 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 01:28:25 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:31:36 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:32:11 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 01:34:33 -!- sixpoint8 [~jaykub@ip68-12-204-131.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: I can has noms?] 01:34:35 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:39:24 kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has joined #lisp 01:45:24 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 01:46:50 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@102-76-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:47:16 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.67.151] has joined #lisp 01:52:10 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:53:26 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:54:14 -!- banisterfiend [~horse@115.189.240.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:54:25 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:58:36 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:58:49 -!- craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:59:01 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:59:36 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:59:44 JuanDaugherty: I think it might be at least partially related to resurgence of BSD/MIT licensing 02:00:28 that and more successful commercial firms using OS software 02:02:03 BSD, Apache, CC, whatever, it all kind of bunches together in a quantum distinction between FOSS and proprietary 02:02:56 in which Mallery's licensing which seemed onerous 6 or 7 years ago, seems OK now 02:03:14 and definitely FOSS 02:04:03 -!- seangrove [~user@70-36-236-168.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:05:09 CL-HTTP's license is basically good, old CMU, isn't it? 02:05:40 no, I think he kinda wrote if from scratch 02:05:47 *it 02:05:52 yes, but I mean in the final effect 02:06:37 perhaps, haven't looked and I know he supports CMUCL but not preferentially 02:07:10 lw seems to be preferred 02:07:42 the only thing I ever got it working with was cmucl 02:07:53 -!- kmwallio [~kmwallio@host113-70.brownlie.fit.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:07:56 well, I was more thinking about CMU softare license, which was common for example for stuff related to Mach 02:08:24 -!- redline6561 [~redline@adsl-190-198-31.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:08:28 I wonder how well CL-HTTP compares to Hunchentoot and others 02:09:07 http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/gnumach-doc/CMU-License.html 02:09:24 if you meant that, by no means, his is much longer 02:12:33 seangrove [~user@99-204-42-47.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 02:12:43 -!- froydnj [~froydnj@gateway.codesourcery.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:12:55 http://paste.lisp.org/+2IF9 02:14:38 cl-http is more complete as a server package but it's somewhat ossified 02:15:08 anyway, the bias about CL-HTTP being somehow troublesome in licensing seems to me related to how cliki is only for "free/open software" 02:15:33 yeah 02:17:16 *p_l|uni* would happily replace both ALUwiki and cliki with single wiki.lisp.org 02:18:16 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-228-42.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:21:06 MrPat [~chatzilla@c-67-165-104-200.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:21:51 Hi out there 02:22:19 I can't find the function I need, but I thought I have seen it somewhere... 02:22:57 I want to take 3 lists of 10 items and make one list of 10 triples 02:23:06 Can you point me to it? 02:23:19 Thanks in advance 02:24:13 MrPat: (mapcar (lambda (x y z) (list x y z)) list1 list2 list3) 02:24:52 there probably is some utility function for this, but I can't recall one (possibly something in alexandria or similar. INCF-CL might have one as well 02:26:03 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Quit:] 02:26:24 seangrov` [~user@173.151.10.240] has joined #lisp 02:26:58 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:27:02 -!- compmstr [~compmstr@adsl-074-185-008-197.sip.clt.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:27:48 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:28:02 -!- seangrove [~user@99-204-42-47.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:28:23 p_l|uni Thanks I thought there was something called weave, but this does the trick 02:28:28 Thanks again 02:30:34 <_3b> p_l|uni: isn't that (mapcar 'list ...)? 02:31:20 _3b: right, I forgot 02:31:34 I corrected mine soon later, but forgot to write here ^^; 02:32:09 btw, PostgreSQL 9.0 released, yahooo :D 02:37:52 *JuanDaugherty* goes to check it out. 02:40:27 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: night] 02:42:03 Guest9834 [~nishio@p1077-ipad27gifu.gifu.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:42:13 aidalgol [~user@114-134-9-4.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 02:45:56 (quit) 02:46:29 -!- Guest9834 [~nishio@p1077-ipad27gifu.gifu.ocn.ne.jp] has left #lisp 02:51:41 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@adsl-99-148-29-229.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:52:07 banisterfiend [~horse@118.82.186.189] has joined #lisp 02:52:26 Draggor [~Draggor@adsl-99-135-146-116.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:54:36 Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE002401755b76-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 02:54:49 Guest9834 [~nishio@p1077-ipad27gifu.gifu.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:54:51 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:55:17 pgsql 9 is old now. 02:55:24 The latest hotness is halvm. 02:55:56 -!- seangrov` [~user@173.151.10.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:56:40 froydnj [~froydnj@gateway.codesourcery.com] has joined #lisp 02:57:02 Yamazaki-kun: well, it's not a database engine and I'm not sure if I'd use HalVM right now... 02:57:26 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 02:58:12 also, it's insecure as hell, at least according to their own website 03:00:57 i guess 3 months is sorta ole 03:04:17 ajmorgan [~ajmorgan@96.18.164.16] has joined #lisp 03:05:35 ignotus [~ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has joined #lisp 03:06:35 (format nil "~:{~A=~A~^, ~}" '((x 1) (y 2))) gives "X=1Y=2", but what I want is "X=1, Y=2", how can I achieve that? 03:07:22 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:07:24 m4dnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 03:08:31 ahh ~:^ instead of ~^ and it is good 03:08:51 I need this so rarely that I always forget it :-/ 03:10:05 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:11:14 -!- replete [~pete@cpe-74-64-94-88.hvc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:13:16 Intricate [~todd@virt84.vnet.wnec.edu] has joined #lisp 03:13:19 -!- Guest9834 [~nishio@p1077-ipad27gifu.gifu.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Guest9834] 03:13:35 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:13:41 Can anyone help me debug a simple program? 03:15:03 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:15:47 RenJuan [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:16:29 caelan [~caelan@gnu/webmaster/caelan] has joined #lisp 03:17:01 sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:17:20 Can anyone help me with some debugging? I'm new to Lisp 03:18:13 *_3b* suspects that depends on whether or not you ever actually describe the problem or not 03:18:38 ignotus: Instead of playing format games, you might like to just print normally with-output-to-string. 03:19:07 ok, well as I said, I'm new to Lisp 03:19:18 our program is to write a simple dot-product function 03:19:28 here's what I got: 03:19:37 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:19:42 Zhivago: I see, doing everything with format is a little pet peeve of mine lately:) 03:19:52 (defun dot-product ( '(a b) '(c d) ) 03:20:07 (+ (* a c) (* b d))) 03:20:26 function should take two params 03:20:31 each a list of 2 elements 03:20:59 <_3b> well, first problem is that CL functions don't destructure their arguments, and ' wouldn't be what you want there even if they did 03:21:19 <_3b> (defun dot-product (a b) ...) would be a function that takes 2 params 03:21:33 ok 03:21:39 so something like 03:22:05 (+ (* (first a) (first b)) (* (second a) (second b)))) 03:22:15 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:22:17 <_3b> sounds plausible 03:23:16 ok 03:23:21 so assuming i go through with that 03:23:23 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-065.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:23:26 how would i go about invoking that? 03:23:55 <_3b> (dot-product a b) assuming a and b are lists containing 2 numbers 03:24:24 would (dot-product '(1 2) '(3 4)) invoke it with two lists? 03:24:33 <_3b> or you could use literal lists insread of variables, or functions that return lists, etc 03:24:45 <_3b> right, that would be an example of passing it 2 literal lists 03:24:49 ok 03:24:50 thanks! 03:24:56 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:25:15 Our professor went over lisp in one day and gave us some simple functions to do 03:25:23 just difficult to grasp in 80 minutes 03:26:12 You could also do it with mapcar and reduce. 03:26:17 -!- caelan [~caelan@gnu/webmaster/caelan] has quit [Quit: That's all, folks!] 03:26:32 we didn't cover any of that 03:26:38 which is all I got from google... 03:26:45 *_3b* would suggest either a better professor or a better text 03:26:55 *Intricate* would agree with both 03:28:42 <_3b> minion: tell Intricate about gentle 03:28:42 Intricate: look at gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 03:29:13 <_3b> if you are interested in learning more about lisp, that is supposed to be a good book ^, or Practical Common Lisp if you are already famiiliar with programming 03:29:22 thanks, one last thing, is there a lisp command interpreter you recommend for ubuntu? 03:29:42 <_3b> if a compiler counts, i'd recomment SBCL 03:29:56 <_3b> (it is still interactive, just compiles everything by default) 03:30:02 that works 03:30:24 <_3b> CCL is another good choice, and gnu clisp is reasonable as well 03:31:06 alright, i'm gonna try out sbcl first 03:31:19 clisp's repl seems better than sbcl's 03:31:59 <_3b> linux distros tend to have pretty bad lisp support though, so for long term use you might want to get lisp software directly... whatever ubuntu has should be good enough for a few homework problems though 03:32:23 yeah, we're touching on it for 2 classes, so it shouldn't be difficult 03:32:47 i have most of them written out on paper, and i was working in windows before but couldn't take that anymore 03:33:41 alright, thanks again! 03:35:17 jesusabdullah: because SBCL doesn't embed any special REPL (in fact, it avoids shipping any extra functionality outside of few platform-specific things) and most people use SLIME anyway 03:35:48 one can always load linedit and call (linedit:install-repl) though 03:35:59 Yeah, I figured re: slime 03:36:46 Gonna try slimv......someday 03:36:57 Just really busy now 03:37:02 No time for lisp :( 03:42:53 _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has joined #lisp 03:44:16 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has left #lisp 03:44:47 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:44:47 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 03:44:47 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 03:44:51 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-168.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:50:15 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:52:29 -!- jweiss [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:53:50 -!- MrPat [~chatzilla@c-67-165-104-200.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:56:41 MrPat [~chatzilla@c-67-165-104-200.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:56:52 -!- gz [gz@clozure-93943513.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout] 03:57:36 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:03:41 -!- Intricate [~todd@virt84.vnet.wnec.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:03:47 -!- Norbert_L [~Andrel@cpc11-bagu10-2-0-cust302.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:05:03 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.67.151] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:05:28 Norbert_L [~Andrel@cpc11-bagu10-2-0-cust302.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 04:05:29 -!- La0fer [~Laofers1@64.120.233.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:06:42 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.88.122] has joined #lisp 04:08:40 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ocjigtfrnfboazua] has joined #lisp 04:10:31 replete [~pete@cpe-74-64-94-88.hvc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:11:57 -!- MrPat [~chatzilla@c-67-165-104-200.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [SeaMonkey 2.0.10/20101027121512]] 04:20:11 -!- davertron [~david@c-24-218-166-166.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:20:34 pnq [~nick@AC824105.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 04:22:24 jesusabdullah: rlwrap is really nice for no emacs 04:22:48 you just type rlwrap sbcl or rlwrap ccl and you have command history and line editing 04:23:29 rlwrap, huh? 04:23:46 Sounds handy! 04:24:41 Thanks 04:26:12 Oh fuck yeah 04:26:16 this is sweet 04:26:46 yeah, i like it :) 04:26:48 -!- mbohun [~user@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:28:57 -!- Norbert_L [~Andrel@cpc11-bagu10-2-0-cust302.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:29:16 _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has joined #lisp 04:31:32 Does there seem to be a concensus re: version control systems in the lisp community? I'm seeing mostly git and darcs <_< 04:32:14 jhuni [~jhuni@udp217774uds.hawaiiantel.net] has joined #lisp 04:33:49 jesusabdullah: cause the lisp community considers them to be the best (and there's a noticeable move to git) 04:34:40 (though darcs has nice features that others don't have, but it can horribly backfire from time to time, no idea if they fixed it) 04:34:41 Yeah? I use git myself, but haven't tried darcs 04:35:20 jesusabdullah: hu.dwim people had very good experience with darcs, iirc a lot of their workflow depends on how it handles patches 04:35:26 Hmm 04:35:46 *p_l|uni* now looks into slipping scheme into his software engineering project 04:36:08 helps that I'll apparently work on the "voodoo magic" part of it, aka "The Database" 04:36:27 What's the project? 04:38:09 a geolocation-based recommender system 04:38:44 Norbert_L [~Andrel@cpc11-bagu10-2-0-cust302.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 04:38:50 I'm planning on placing most of the geographical operations into database itself 04:42:14 fortunately, there's PL/scheme 04:42:57 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 04:46:50 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-9-4.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:50:12 Good morning everyone! 04:51:13 mbohun [~user@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:51:37 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has left #lisp 04:54:17 -!- tsuru [~charlie@adsl-179-29-10.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:54:17 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:54:55 beach: morning! 04:56:09 -!- az [~az@p5796CBD1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:56:11 The user interface of git is rather bad. I heard mercurial is better. I'm still using git. 04:56:54 must be nice, being able to fit user experience on one dimension 04:56:56 _mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 04:57:03 Anyways, esr wrote a tool to easily convert repositories between DCVS with history and all. 04:57:05 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:57:56 antifuchs: given that it's a new design, written from scratch, yes, they could have made some effort on the ui side of it. 04:58:15 I was attempting to be sarcastic (: 04:58:55 Intricate [~todd@virt84.vnet.wnec.edu] has joined #lisp 04:59:01 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: reboot emacs] 04:59:04 If anything else was bad, I'd be critisizing it rather :-) 05:02:05 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-vxty.basistech.com] has joined #lisp 05:03:10 az [~az@p4FE4FA4D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:04:10 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-vxty.basistech.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:05:11 -!- incandenza [~djm@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:06:19 the "user interface is bad" comes from git infancy, when using it without something like cogito or stgit was maddening 05:07:31 try one of the many gui front-ends. there are a lot of them and they're really pretty good. there's also magit, which is a nice emacs ui for it 05:08:35 magit is very nice 05:08:46 *p_l|uni* is a magit user 05:08:50 I am, too 05:09:09 incandenza [~djm@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:09:21 I used to switch back & forth between emacs and GitX for editing and staging/committing. now I can stay in emacs (: 05:09:23 -!- longshot [~longshot@180.184.8.40] has quit [Quit: longshot] 05:09:46 git also is commendable for its speed. While Mercurial's speed isn't bad, show me anyone who managed to *never* get deadlocked in darcs :D 05:09:50 I don't want a gui. I want a sane CLI. git is half sane. But it has too many inconsistencies. 05:10:45 p_l|uni: can you explain what this means " banisterfiend: anyway, the extra functionality of LET and similar is that they can create local binding for special variables, which aren't something I encountered much outside Lisp" 05:11:04 what's a special variable? 05:11:55 banisterfiend: also called a dynamic variable 05:12:14 banisterfiend: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/26_glo_s.htm#special_variable (: 05:12:17 banisterfiend: a special variable is a "placeholder" of sorts - their bindings have *dynamic* scope instead of lexical, and you can change the binding on call stack without impacting previous calls 05:12:48 (hm, before you go chasing that link chain; it's the special declaration) 05:12:53 specbot: special 05:12:57 (erm.) 05:12:58 sh10151 [~sh@cpe-76-181-66-90.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:13:03 mkw [~mkw@61.142.209.146] has joined #lisp 05:13:05 clhs special 05:13:05 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/d_specia.htm 05:13:33 they are a damned useful thing, though :) 05:13:54 agreed. for some things 05:14:09 antifuchs: everything can be overused, sure :) 05:14:49 right (: 05:16:20 -!- sh10151 [~sh@cpe-76-181-66-90.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 05:18:01 -!- mkw [~mkw@61.142.209.146] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:18:06 sh10151 [~sh10151@cpe-76-181-66-90.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:19:29 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:19:30 -!- sh10151 [~sh10151@cpe-76-181-66-90.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:19:40 sh10151 [~sh10151@cpe-76-181-66-90.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:19:44 -!- sh10151 [~sh10151@cpe-76-181-66-90.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 05:19:49 futz [81aebe7e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.174.190.126] has joined #lisp 05:20:21 what goes in ~/.clisprc.lisp so that clisp knows where to look for a lisp file (e.g. clickcheck.lisp)? 05:20:28 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:20:53 good morning all 05:21:25 futz: (push #P"/some/path/" custom:*load-paths*) 05:22:03 thanks 05:22:31 _danb_ [~user@124-149-32-186.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 05:22:32 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 05:23:21 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.59.151] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:23:27 pjb: error: # has no external symbol with name "*LOAD-PATHS" 05:23:41 futz: read again what I wrote. 05:24:03 my bad, forgot the second * 05:24:35 pjb: thanks again! it totally works! 05:24:42 Great. 05:24:53 -!- emma is now known as em 05:24:59 -!- futz [81aebe7e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.174.190.126] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:25:01 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.47.240] has joined #lisp 05:29:19 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 05:31:37 -!- murilasso [~murilasso@189.103.20.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:33:25 murilasso [~murilasso@187-27-178-116.3g.claro.net.br] has joined #lisp 05:42:01 sh10151 [~sh10151@cpe-76-181-66-90.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:42:58 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ocjigtfrnfboazua] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:45:55 -!- murilasso [~murilasso@187-27-178-116.3g.claro.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:47:06 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-fjwwnldqsnbfkhoa] has joined #lisp 05:49:09 zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has joined #lisp 05:50:05 -!- RenJuan [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:51:04 -!- ajmorgan [~ajmorgan@96.18.164.16] has quit [Quit: ajmorgan] 05:53:03 -!- pnq [~nick@AC824105.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: this day is done] 05:54:08 RenJuan [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:54:16 gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 05:55:12 ajmorgan [~ajmorgan@96.18.164.16] has joined #lisp 05:56:57 -!- mitre [~chatzilla@204.51.92.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:57:05 -!- [df] [~df@163.8.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:57:26 [df] [~df@163.8.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has joined #lisp 05:57:45 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:57:49 psilord [~psilord@adsl-76-204-103-52.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:57:59 -!- psilord [~psilord@adsl-76-204-103-52.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 05:58:58 mitre [~chatzilla@204.51.92.251] has joined #lisp 06:03:46 churib [~churib@dslc-082-082-126-031.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 06:03:47 -!- sh10151 [~sh10151@cpe-76-181-66-90.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 06:05:53 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.47.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:06:47 -!- antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:07:17 -!- scode [~scode@hyperion.scode.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:07:22 scode [~scode@hyperion.scode.org] has joined #lisp 06:07:43 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.181.63] has joined #lisp 06:08:12 -!- ajmorgan [~ajmorgan@96.18.164.16] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:08:49 ajmorgan [~ajmorgan@96.18.164.16] has joined #lisp 06:12:46 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 06:18:00 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 06:21:07 -!- Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:21:07 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-67.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:22:55 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 06:23:30 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:29:28 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:32:35 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 06:32:52 _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has joined #lisp 06:33:00 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has left #lisp 06:34:34 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-1-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:34:36 Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:35:15 sabalaba [~sabalaba@114.250.108.27] has joined #lisp 06:35:48 Hey all, I haven't seen anything on websockets for lisp - does anyone know of anything out there? 06:36:41 BrianRice` [~water@c-98-246-165-205.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:36:52 _3b: weren't you working on something related? 06:37:25 somnium [~user@184.42.17.189] has joined #lisp 06:38:28 I could take a crack at implementing 'em I suppose, but as always, rather not reinvent the wheel 06:38:48 lnostdal wrote something for comet 06:39:34 ATH500 [~ATH500@70.35.170.61] has joined #lisp 06:39:46 -!- BrianRice [~water@c-98-246-165-205.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:39:46 -!- BrianRice` is now known as BrianRice 06:56:13 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-210-175.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 07:00:49 futz [81aebe7e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.174.190.126] has joined #lisp 07:01:01 can (loop) collect into a string? 07:02:28 No. 07:03:00 how can i convert a character list into a proper string? 07:05:31 ah, (coerce lst 'string) 07:05:33 -!- futz [81aebe7e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.129.174.190.126] has quit [Client Quit] 07:05:56 -!- Norbert_L [~Andrel@cpc11-bagu10-2-0-cust302.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:06:51 <_3b> seangrove: https://github.com/3b/clws is what i have for websockets, not sure if it still matches current draft or not though, and not very heavily tested 07:07:51 <_3b> someone else started another one, cl-websocket on github i think, don't think that one had much checked in though 07:07:55 -!- banisterfiend [~horse@118.82.186.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:08:29 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-fjwwnldqsnbfkhoa] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:08:40 -!- entropax [~entropi@nat/intel/x-nskoldrpoccynsrp] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:12:48 daniel___ [~daniel@p5082A81E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:15:27 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-duvsabwjzzmedcwk] has joined #lisp 07:16:49 -!- daniel [~daniel@p50829F4D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:17:54 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-duvsabwjzzmedcwk] has left #lisp 07:19:04 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 07:19:32 masonium [~IceChat7@col-69-141.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #lisp 07:19:53 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-76-102-192-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:19:55 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-yphxhncodwivsqjh] has joined #lisp 07:21:31 is http://lisp-univ-etc.blogspot.com/ comes online here ? 07:22:09 -!- masonium [~IceChat7@col-69-141.ResHall.Berkeley.EDU] has quit [Client Quit] 07:22:13 *_3b* can see it, if not read it 07:22:56 abeaumont [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 07:23:23 author of cl-redis 07:25:55 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:26:02 <_3b> oh, do you mean does the author of that blog visit this channel? don't know about that 07:26:15 banisterfiend [~horse@115.189.252.119] has joined #lisp 07:26:17 _3b, ok, thanks :) 07:26:29 *kushal* goes to file a bug on cl-redis 07:26:52 hmm... I wonder if such craziness as this: would be useful in CL... I recall some old program that checked for certain style issues in CL homework, thouhg. 07:26:57 *though 07:35:45 _3b: I'll take a look at that, thanks 07:36:52 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-19-101.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:37:51 Madsy [~madman@ti0207a340-0958.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 07:37:51 -!- Madsy [~madman@ti0207a340-0958.bb.online.no] has quit [Changing host] 07:37:51 Madsy [~madman@fu/coder/madsy] has joined #lisp 07:38:13 -!- daniel___ is now known as daniel 07:42:21 horze [~kim@c-601172d5.24-87-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 07:43:48 -!- banisterfiend [~horse@115.189.252.119] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:46:46 -!- horze [~kim@c-601172d5.24-87-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Client Quit] 07:49:52 banisterfiend [~horse@118.82.186.189] has joined #lisp 07:50:56 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:51:21 -!- PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:55:57 PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 08:05:03 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-168.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 08:06:36 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 08:11:03 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-43-84.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:14:09 -!- gor[e] [U2FsdGVkX1@79.165.187.105] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:14:44 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-16-192.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:14:44 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 08:15:55 gor[e] [U2FsdGVkX1@79.165.187.105] has joined #lisp 08:17:51 jconrad [~jconrad@host86-147-30-162.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 08:17:56 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-210-175.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:23:08 ravic [~ravi@118-93-176-141.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 08:24:18 Good morning everyone! 08:27:16 Joreji [~thomas@85-065.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 08:27:27 ehu [~ehuels@109.32.185.113] has joined #lisp 08:28:19 -!- banisterfiend [~horse@118.82.186.189] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:31:11 banisterfiend [~horse@118.82.186.189] has joined #lisp 08:31:17 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:32:15 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-163-70.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:42:00 -!- banisterfiend [~horse@118.82.186.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:42:45 banisterfiend [~horse@118.82.186.189] has joined #lisp 08:44:52 -!- zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:48:12 fred-o [~user@c-cce070d5.017-8-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 08:50:04 Gah! At this rate it will take me 1.5 months to write the tests for the SICL Sequences module. 08:50:31 Jabberwockey [~jgrabarsk@selene.ftk.de] has joined #lisp 08:51:36 V-ille [~ville@195.16.210.229] has joined #lisp 08:54:05 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:54:20 splittist [~John@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 08:54:24 morning 08:54:30 hello splittist 08:55:36 hi spiaggia! Whats New&Exciting(SM)? 08:55:49 s/Whats/What's/ 08:56:12 splittist: Well, I got the first SICL module out the door. Working on sequences now. 08:56:40 Don't know whether that qualifies, though. 08:56:47 WFM 08:57:05 fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 08:57:12 splittist: What about yourself? 08:57:53 -!- banisterfiend [~horse@118.82.186.189] has left #lisp 08:58:03 splittist: Also, mega1 has a 200 point lead over number 2. That is just *so* impressive! 08:59:17 spiaggia: usual end-of-year busyness. And now the snow has gone from cute to actually affecting my work, so I'm tending grinch. Not much hacking recently. I made the mistake of NOT keeping my system working as I evolved it... 09:01:03 splittist: I see. I have now (after teaching XP for a few years) become utterly convinced of the utility of a good test suite, because it definitely allows one to keep things working as they evolve, and thus give the courage (word used by XP) to make modifications. 09:01:59 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:02:54 freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn1-76.vpn.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 09:04:56 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:05:05 spiaggia: yeah, I guess I should grow up (: You're using lisp-unit mainly? 09:05:20 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 09:05:48 splittist: Yes, but for no real good reason other than simplicity. I recently ran into a limitation of it though. 09:06:05 spiaggia: relating to conditions? 09:07:14 splittist: Yeah, you can't easily test that compiling some function gives a warning while still continuing the compilation. Lisp-unit assumes that such a warning is fatal, so aborts compilation, making it impossible to use the compiled function for tests at runtime. 09:09:43 spiaggia: right - which, given your goals for SICL, is pretty fundamental, I would think. 09:10:37 splittist: Yes, but there are ways of getting around that problem that are not too complicated. They involve the explicit use of handler-bind and muffle-warning. 09:10:55 makao007 [~makao007@61.142.209.146] has joined #lisp 09:11:29 spiaggia: so nirvana is but a macro away... 09:12:02 atilim [~AndChat@178.241.107.197] has joined #lisp 09:12:06 tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:14:13 Yes. But then, that's what a testing framework is, isn't it? A bunch of macros. 09:15:24 -!- PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:15:48 -!- fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 09:18:41 -!- incandenza [~djm@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:20:18 -!- makao007 [~makao007@61.142.209.146] has quit [Quit: makao007] 09:20:41 makao007 [~makao009@61.142.209.146] has joined #lisp 09:23:42 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:24:23 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 09:24:59 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 09:26:01 PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 09:26:50 incandenza [~djm@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 09:26:51 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu219.queens.ox.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 09:30:38 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-107-111.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 09:32:10 -!- makao007 [~makao009@61.142.209.146] has quit [Quit: makao007] 09:33:01 makao007 [~makao007@61.142.209.146] has joined #lisp 09:34:42 mgr_ [~mgr@mail.phinn.de] has joined #lisp 09:35:17 how to escape space in a string ? 09:35:54 -!- mgr_ is now known as mgr 09:36:19 kushal: you don't need to escape spaces in strings 09:36:45 maybe he's looking for ~RET 09:37:05 cmm-, I got into a bug in cl-redis package where the command fails as the string I am passing contains spaces 09:37:13 so trying to find a way around 09:38:06 what it runs a string through shell or something? then you need to escape stuff according to the rules of whatever that stuff gets run through 09:38:18 ok 09:38:40 cmm-, here is the function which does the work https://github.com/vseloved/cl-redis/blob/master/redis.lisp#L13 09:38:50 cmm-, using iolib 09:39:56 writing on a socket 09:40:43 -!- mbohun [~user@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:40:56 I'm afraid your problem description is unworkable, sorry 09:41:22 ok thanks 09:41:46 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:41:46 that "ok thanks" is pretty worrying, by the way 09:42:51 it seems to me like you don't try to understand whatever you are trying to do, either for lack of concentration or for some other reason 09:43:03 just sayin' 09:43:28 zickzackv [~user@e178141026.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:43:49 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:44:33 also, I can't help noticing, from your utterings here over the last several weeks, that you seem to be trying to use various liberaries and frameworks with no apparent purpose 09:44:37 cmm-, oh , I am trying to pass arguments which contain spaces , cl-redis is failing , so tried to understand how it is working , and on which level I should escape the space 09:45:31 cmm-, yes, as I started with lisp not long back , had to keep on experimenting with various things as required for the work I am doing 09:45:43 no, that's just restating whatever you already said. this is not helpful. 09:45:54 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.58.222] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:46:00 cmm-, and no one else nearby knows lisp, so had to ask here 09:46:01 do you have an actual error message? or, better, a back-trace? 09:46:22 cmm-, Redis error: ERR wrong number of arguments for 'lrange' command 09:46:42 from the debug statement I found: LRANGE sdd sd 0 -1 09:47:01 phromo [phromo@c-afc0e455.015-359-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 09:47:11 so there the arguments are becoming 4 where as it should be 3 09:47:22 which implementation are you using? does it have a usable debugger? 09:48:11 sbcl 09:48:35 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:52:00 so there must be a backtrace, no? 09:52:54 and perhaps you are in the debugger as we speak? and perhaps you have an idea as to how one is supposed to use a debugger? 09:54:20 cmm-, :) 09:54:24 cmm-, http://fpaste.org/ILEG/ 09:55:06 -!- spiaggia [~user@armadillo.labri.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:56:42 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:58:13 -!- V-ille [~ville@195.16.210.229] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:01:47 OK, so it's this "redis" thing's escaping rules you are violating here. 10:02:06 so do you know what are those rules? 10:02:19 (I don't even know what redis is, so...) 10:02:23 H4ns` [~user@pD4B9ED50.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:02:23 p_l|uni [~pl@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 10:04:02 cmm-, talk with redis upstream, they asked to change the protocol , trying that out now 10:04:07 * talked 10:04:09 also, the cl-redis readme file mentions an *echo-p* variable which you might want to set to T, so that you'll see what actually gets out to redis 10:04:33 cmm-, did, from there only I got real issue 10:06:28 -!- H4ns [~user@p579F8AB2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:08:06 Guthur [c0c1f50e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.193.245.14] has joined #lisp 10:08:30 -!- makao007 [~makao007@61.142.209.146] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:09:38 Hun [~Hun@80.81.19.29] has joined #lisp 10:09:44 -!- jhuni [~jhuni@udp217774uds.hawaiiantel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:10:11 cmm-, worked with protocol change, though now I have to send all arguments as string 10:11:05 -!- ignotus [~ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 10:11:11 I wonder if using "\"sdd sd \"" would've worked :) 10:13:30 cmm-, never worked, tried 10:14:12 ZabaQ [~john.conn@playboxgames.com] has joined #lisp 10:17:38 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@dsl4E5C0308.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 10:20:48 dfox_ [~dfox@ip-89-176-11-41.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 10:22:49 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: reboot] 10:23:27 Dawgmatix [~dman@203.187.211.82] has joined #lisp 10:24:28 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:24:58 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7560c4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:28:19 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:30:39 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu219.queens.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:37:08 -!- atilim [~AndChat@178.241.107.197] has quit [Quit: Bye] 10:39:44 freddy111 [~liza@150.140.229.119] has joined #lisp 10:39:56 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-065.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:40:22 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-210-175.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 10:47:50 -!- mitre [~chatzilla@204.51.92.251] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:48:12 mitre [~chatzilla@204.51.92.251] has joined #lisp 10:52:54 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@203.187.211.82] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 10:54:55 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.181.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:55:25 -!- TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@124-171-212-82.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:56:24 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.163.53] has joined #lisp 10:56:39 V-ille [~ville@195.16.210.229] has joined #lisp 10:56:54 -!- Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE002401755b76-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:58:20 spiaggia [~user@armadillo.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 10:58:42 TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@203-206-248-217.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 11:01:55 -!- jconrad [~jconrad@host86-147-30-162.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:02:06 jconrad [~jconrad@host109-153-59-235.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:04:17 hoe do I create a method in CLOS that adds an element at the beginning of a list ? 11:04:53 are you talking of a special method combination? 11:05:14 or are you looking for (cons :foo (call-next-method))? 11:05:39 ATH500: (cons element list). No need for a method, the function exists already. 11:08:51 Yuuhi [benni@p5483C7DE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:09:03 thanx 11:09:21 ATH500: You are new here right? 11:10:06 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@dsl4E5C0308.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Disconnected by services] 11:10:06 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@dsl4E5C003D.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 11:10:07 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 11:10:29 I admit that for what I need to do I have to create a method in a class >.> 11:10:43 even if the function exists 11:11:17 ATH500: You are out of luck, because in Lisp methods do not exist in classes. I recommend you use a lesser language instead, such as Java. 11:12:00 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 11:12:01 ATH500: Would you like to share with us the reason for this very silly requirement? 11:12:39 well there is the defmethod in CLOS 11:13:20 ATH500: That doesn't fulfil your requirement. Who imposes the restriction that you must define a method in a class, and why? 11:13:36 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 11:13:57 The purpose of this exercise is to develop and test a CLOS class, my-list, to manipulate lists. The 11:13:57 operations you should implement in this class are: 11:13:58 1- Adding an element at the beginning of a list: add-beg 11:13:58 2- Adding an element at the end of a list: add-end 11:14:05 up to 8...... 11:14:07 :( 11:15:12 ATH500: That's a "my-list" not a list. 11:15:27 ATH500: and it says nothing about the method being in the class. 11:16:08 ATH500: So this is homework assignment? 11:16:11 add-beg and add-end? those are methods right :S 11:16:37 ATH500: I don't know. Ask your professor. 11:16:59 ATH500: Where do you go to university? 11:17:04 -!- cinch [~cinch@unaffiliated/cinch] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 11:17:05 well it's a principle of programming assignment 11:17:13 at Concordia University... 11:17:26 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-163-70.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:17:31 -!- austinh [~austinh@c-67-189-92-40.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:17:35 cinch [~cinch@unaffiliated/cinch] has joined #lisp 11:17:45 Perhaps you need to re-read the course material. 11:18:05 austinh [~austinh@c-67-189-92-40.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:18:28 myeah, that's why I'll do only one question out of the 4 is about lisp, I've already done all the others 11:18:43 *that's what 11:18:45 -!- H4ns` is now known as H4ns 11:19:26 ATH500: The others should be enough. 11:20:00 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn1-76.vpn.helsinki.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 11:20:30 kaemo [~mad5ci@d38-66.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 11:21:02 I don't know if I really like lisp or not 11:21:03 hmmm 11:21:31 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@114.250.108.27] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:21:41 ATH500: I think I do. I think you don't. 11:21:55 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 11:22:11 jconrad_ [~jconrad@host109-153-44-1.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:23:06 ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 11:24:00 -!- jconrad [~jconrad@host109-153-59-235.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:24:00 -!- jconrad_ is now known as jconrad 11:25:23 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-163-70.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:25:40 unicode [~user@95.214.86.223] has joined #lisp 11:26:17 Hi, is there a way to save a session in clisp interactive mode? (ie; save defun'ed functions...) 11:26:21 jdz [~jdz@host32-106-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 11:26:50 unicode: you can save an image, but that won't include the source code to the functions that you've defined. 11:33:12 H4ns: ok, something like (saveinitmem "/home/you/yourLispDir/lispImage.mem") 11:33:41 H4ns: Thank you 11:34:28 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-142-231.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 11:35:55 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@114.84.198.38] has joined #lisp 11:40:01 -!- djinni` [~djinni`@li14-39.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 11:40:13 djinni` [~djinni`@li14-39.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 11:42:57 jdz_ [~jdz@host32-106-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 11:48:43 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:51:11 -!- jdz_ [~jdz@host32-106-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:53:02 hlavaty [~user@95-88-27-48-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 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12:49:08 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.199] has joined #lisp 12:52:10 Robert____ [~robert@CPE-61-9-149-16.static.vic.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 12:52:14 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-yphxhncodwivsqjh] has left #lisp 12:52:20 rff [~rff@ip72-207-243-174.br.br.cox.net] has joined #lisp 12:54:51 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:54:52 -!- Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:58:23 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-tewtydvinxbeyjbq] has joined #lisp 13:06:05 sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:06:08 -!- freddy111 [~liza@150.140.229.119] has left #lisp 13:07:19 urandom__ [~user@p548A72C7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:07:47 -!- Robert____ [~robert@CPE-61-9-149-16.static.vic.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 13:08:04 -!- kaemo [~mad5ci@d38-66.icpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:11:48 -!- unicode [~user@95.214.86.223] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:12:01 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 13:14:36 -!- ATH500 [~ATH500@70.35.170.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:18:31 jweiss [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:18:55 have any of you use pythonnolisp 13:19:09 used 13:20:53 -!- maden [~maden@198.168.103.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:21:00 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-19-101.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:21:40 craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 13:22:11 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@114.240.91.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:22:51 -!- kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:23:31 -!- rff [~rff@ip72-207-243-174.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:26:01 phromo [phromo@c-afc0e455.015-359-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 13:30:15 sellout [~greg@64.134.240.185] has joined #lisp 13:36:16 sabalaba [~sabalaba@114.240.91.145] has joined #lisp 13:36:50 -!- cinch [~cinch@unaffiliated/cinch] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:39:41 cinch [~cinch@unaffiliated/cinch] has joined #lisp 13:40:04 Elench [~Elench@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 13:41:20 -!- V-ille [~ville@195.16.210.229] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:41:36 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.90.1] 13:42:26 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 13:43:03 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 13:43:43 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.52.76] has joined #lisp 13:43:59 anyone know what the status of Redshank is? is it maintained? 13:45:46 dto: it's "mature" 13:45:51 as in, works 13:45:57 cool :) 13:46:05 i'll try it out. 13:46:10 i like the mouse copy idea. 13:46:11 V-ille [~ville@195.16.210.229] has joined #lisp 13:46:52 p_l|uni: i'm assembling all the pieces i have into a game creation environment built around emacs, Gluon (my game engine/editor) and a few other things. 13:49:26 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:50:46 -!- Elench [~Elench@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:52:26 redshank looks pretty nice 13:52:46 I might have to give that a spin myself 13:52:56 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-165-169.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 13:53:07 -!- zickzackv [~user@e178141026.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:55:38 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:56:36 novaburst [~novaburst@sourcemage/mage/novaburst] has joined #lisp 13:57:53 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has joined #lisp 13:57:56 Guthur: cool :) 13:57:58 faot [~faot@e178141026.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:58:08 Guthur: hopefully i can extend it with new templatey things. 13:58:28 Guthur: i'd like to have Emacs side by side with Gluon (my editor/engine thingy) 13:58:35 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:58:45 Guthur: or more likely, both fullscreen with alt-tab and/or various moments where emacs grabs focus or hides. 13:59:02 with coordinating themes 13:59:20 rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 13:59:34 Guthur: let's continue on #lispgames 13:59:35 :) 14:02:24 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@114.240.91.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:03:04 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:03:20 Joreji [~thomas@85-065.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:05:35 kanru [~kanru@118-168-236-72.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:06:51 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:09:50 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:10:46 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:11:00 -!- churib [~churib@dslc-082-082-126-031.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:14:00 delt0r_ [~bob@kimura.cibiv.univie.ac.at] has joined #lisp 14:14:34 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 14:15:55 sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has joined #lisp 14:16:51 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 14:17:10 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:17:35 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:18:25 sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has joined #lisp 14:19:18 Zephyrus [~emanuele@81.174.11.81] has joined #lisp 14:19:18 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@81.174.11.81] has quit [Changing host] 14:19:19 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 14:20:30 Hi everyone! 14:20:33 kmwallio [~kmwallio@host113-70.brownlie.fit.edu] has joined #lisp 14:21:01 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 14:22:26 How can a string be converted to a symbol? For example, "xyz" to 'xyz 14:22:54 -!- phromo [phromo@c-afc0e455.015-359-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:23:06 drl: intern or find-symbol 14:23:35 drl: usually, you'd want to use find-symbol if your string is coming from an external source to avoid creating garbage symbols. 14:24:27 drl: you'll also have to observe the case of your symbols. most common lisp implementations store all symbols in upper case, but some don't. 14:25:20 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-210-175.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:25:23 H4ns, perhaps I should tell the use. I to use strings as keys in case. 14:26:00 drl: you can use :test (function equal) or equalp to hash-tables, or assoc, find, etc. 14:26:14 drl: http://www.discontinuity.info/~pkhuong/string-case.lisp 14:27:09 H4ns and pjb, many thanks! 14:27:23 cmm- [~cmm@109.66.205.250] has joined #lisp 14:27:26 drl: but there is also nothing wrong with just using case and intern/find-symbol. just observe case and string origin. 14:27:27 drl: Alexandria contains a macro called SWITCH where you can specify the test function to be used 14:27:43 does anyone know how asdf:run-shell-command handles programs that detach from console 14:27:45 and become daemons 14:27:46 depending on the use case, you can also store closures in a hash table and funcall. 14:27:50 to the processes still run 14:27:54 or are they killed 14:28:22 PuffTheMagic: What's your implementation? 14:28:40 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-178-205-189.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:28:47 I suggest you use your implementation's run-program directly, and consult your implementation's documentation about it 14:28:49 muhdik [~IceChat7@parkmobile-usa.oneringnetworks.net] has joined #lisp 14:29:03 ATH500 [~ATH500@70.35.170.61] has joined #lisp 14:31:07 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 14:31:27 tcr, thanks! it seems there are usually many ways to do things in lisp. 14:31:30 konrad` [~user@187.106.39.144] has joined #lisp 14:32:16 -!- konrad` is now known as konr 14:32:44 pkhuong, were you responding to me? 14:33:37 drl: yes. 14:36:15 easyWebE [c1bbeb11@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.187.235.17] has joined #lisp 14:36:39 kaemo [~mad5ci@150.254.82.89] has joined #lisp 14:37:08 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 14:37:54 pkhuong, interesting. I've just learned a lot these last few minutes. Thanks pkhuong and everyone! I've come a long way with lisp this past year, thanks to the great help from the people in this chatroom. 14:40:49 *easyWebE* hates corporate firewalls. 14:41:03 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has joined #lisp 14:41:43 fisxoj [~fisxoj@149.43.189.116] has joined #lisp 14:44:51 sadeness [~zebadaia@altlinux/developer/sadeness] has joined #lisp 14:45:21 drl: it's a fun group isn't it :) 14:46:04 dto, yes, it is! 14:46:59 man, I'm still in awe of pkhuong's implementation 14:47:47 further experiments have shown it's only better that cond/string= because string= sucks ;) 14:48:26 pkhuong: that's sad 14:48:49 yeah... well I haven't had time to add transforms for string= either. 14:50:20 -!- benny [~benny@i577A25CA.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:50:34 there's one laying in contrib/ 14:50:55 tcr: that's for SEARCH. 14:52:59 eh true 14:53:11 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:53:51 -!- kmwallio [~kmwallio@host113-70.brownlie.fit.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:54:25 -!- dfox_ [~dfox@ip-89-176-11-41.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:54:41 benny [~benny@i577A3EA1.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 14:54:44 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:55:03 easyWebE: some are nice... 14:55:05 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@247-15-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #lisp 14:55:08 (as in - not as broken) 14:56:23 Well, at least mine is secure. As I can't figure out how to get out via SSH. 14:56:58 Which means no ability to access svn, hg, etc. repos. 14:58:51 easyWebE: have you considered applying for access? 14:59:09 *p_l|uni* worked in company that had per-user firewall users 14:59:35 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 14:59:59 i've got to rename my game engine AGAIN. 15:00:08 Just moved offices, so everyone in the group is in the same boat. 15:00:30 what do people think of the name "iomacs", i.e. EYE-oh-max? 15:00:45 it's supposed to be a sort of emacs-oriented game creation environment 15:01:10 But I managed to get ABCL installed under cygwin, so have been working on a couple Project Euler problems to stretch out the day. 15:01:11 dfkjjkfd_ [~paulh@247-15-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #lisp 15:01:39 btw, any lisp internships/placements around? 15:01:47 *p_l|uni* is looking for a >=10 month one 15:02:12 p_l: where are you located? 15:02:28 -!- fred-o [~user@c-cce070d5.017-8-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:02:37 -!- coldhak [~coldhak@99.152.51.229] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:02:51 dlowe: Currently in Scotland, but I can relocate for the time - It needs to be >9 months though (requirement to be accepted by uni for the degree) 15:03:38 -!- easyWebE [c1bbeb11@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.187.235.17] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:03:40 (starting earliest in June - after exams) 15:03:52 fred-o [~user@c-cce070d5.017-8-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 15:04:03 -!- fred-o [~user@c-cce070d5.017-8-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has left #lisp 15:04:33 p_l|uni: Do you want to be paid? 15:05:59 -!- m4dnificent is now known as madnificent 15:06:20 -!- kaemo [~mad5ci@150.254.82.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 259 seconds] 15:06:33 -!- V-ille [~ville@195.16.210.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:10:40 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:13:16 milanj [~milanj_@77-46-174-209.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 15:15:55 Guthur: well, it would be kinda hard to survive otherwise... 15:18:49 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:19:46 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@149.43.189.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:21:51 right 15:22:47 -!- sellout [~greg@64.134.240.185] has quit [Quit: sellout] 15:22:47 -!- Jabberwockey [~jgrabarsk@selene.ftk.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:22:48 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-43-84.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:23:42 -!- craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:25:46 p_l|uni: Yeah sorry, I was being kind of facetious 15:26:11 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:27:14 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@247-15-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:27:14 -!- dfkjjkfd_ [~paulh@247-15-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:29:15 I think that's a valid question. Unpaid internships aren't entirely uncommon 15:31:13 sure 15:31:48 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 15:33:21 the thing is, there must be some form of support, even if not provided by the company. In my case, I don't have other sources :D 15:34:04 hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-174.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:36 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-1-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:35:04 xan_ [~xan@65.141.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 15:36:16 It would have been more serious if I actually had much chance of forming a company in the immediate future 15:36:19 iwillig [~ivan@ool-18b944f4.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 15:37:40 sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:39:07 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-43-84.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 15:40:15 *p_l|uni* is actually listed as sole trader in UK 15:40:21 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-43-84.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:41:07 p_l|uni: You trade in fish? 15:41:18 beach: no :D 15:41:45 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-tewtydvinxbeyjbq] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:41:51 beach: sole trader is a term for a person who has full control and responsibility for the company, basically the company isn't legally separated 15:42:48 when I get some "free" money, I'm going to change that into LLC (or move the company, as a LLC, to another country that makes sw patents illegal) 15:43:30 You could just not patent your software, hehe 15:43:47 Guthur: I'm not the one patenting :P 15:43:57 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@114.84.198.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:44:14 coldhak [~coldhak@99.152.51.229] has joined #lisp 15:45:22 -!- atilim [~AndChat@178.241.107.197] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:47:49 -!- cinch [~cinch@unaffiliated/cinch] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:53:21 tsuru [~charlie@adsl-179-29-10.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 15:57:35 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-149-32-186.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:59:32 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-163-70.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:00:14 -!- gnooth [~gnooth@ip98-176-79-151.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:00:49 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:01:10 antgreen [~user@nat/redhat/x-cjptztmxsrdsuyer] has joined #lisp 16:02:10 craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 16:02:40 zomgbie [~jesus@212095007116.public.telering.at] has joined #lisp 16:06:11 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:06:16 jconrad_ [~jconrad@host109-152-177-214.range109-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:06:52 mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:08:10 -!- jconrad [~jconrad@host109-153-44-1.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:10:04 aurelien [~Libre@fsf/member/aurelien] has joined #lisp 16:10:40 -!- jconrad_ [~jconrad@host109-152-177-214.range109-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:11:10 some people here use identica-mode.el? (it's to speak about the code and it's action in emacs) 16:11:46 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-43-84.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 16:11:51 1st it seems it's possible to modify the refresh mode 16:11:55 aurelien: #emacs 16:11:59 ok 16:12:24 Bronsa [~bronsa@host85-173-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:12:41 murilasso [~murilasso@189.103.20.140] has joined #lisp 16:13:26 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-065.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:13:31 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@212095007116.public.telering.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:13:43 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:16:50 gnooth [~gnooth@ip98-176-79-151.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:17:21 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:17:50 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:19:03 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:22:40 brandonz [~brandon@c-76-102-192-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:27:55 Has anyone ever made an autoload function for common lisp, like emacs lisp's? 16:28:53 Franz has 16:29:28 Is it for ACL only, or is it portable? 16:30:21 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-76-102-192-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:30:40 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:31:08 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 16:32:26 -!- oconnore [~eric@ip68-225-113-244.mc.at.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:33:17 Rectify [~Andrel@cpc1-lich6-0-0-cust11.3-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 16:35:33 *beach* wonders what the point of that might be now that we have virtual memory. 16:36:18 theoretically there are embedded targets out there. not sure if ACL supports any such, though 16:36:27 beach: faster start-up? 16:36:40 stassats: Really? Why would that be? 16:36:53 you don't load everything at once 16:37:07 stassats: I was referring to an alternative where everything is already loaded when you start. 16:37:26 beach: for definitions that depend on foreign libraries, avoid the need to install that library if you're not interested in the function(s). 16:37:52 -!- Hun [~Hun@80.81.19.29] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:38:06 *beach* thinks our computing environment is still suffering from 1960s technology. 16:38:48 beach: how so? 16:39:00 beach: so, you want to make it even more slower and unresponsive? 16:39:29 phromo [phromo@c-afc0e455.015-359-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 16:39:30 I think I'll just drop it. I re-hash all this every so often. 16:40:47 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 16:41:26 jconrad [~jconrad@host109-152-180-147.range109-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:41:31 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-43-84.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:42:58 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-43-84.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 16:43:12 LiamH: isn't that what cffi currently doing? 16:43:33 stassats: how so? 16:43:53 you only need to load libraries if you want to use your defined foreign functions 16:46:07 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:46:46 stassats: I didn't know that. I've always put in a cffi:use-foreign-library, which I presume requires the library's presence. So if I leave that off, how do I tell it which functions are associated with which library? foreign-funcall or similar definitions don't seem to provide a way of specifying the associated library. 16:47:58 and then there's the problem of grovelling header files, which has to be done at compile time. 16:48:00 you don't? as i understand, you can't have two shared libraries loaded with the same names 16:49:07 esteth [8afbfa29@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.251.250.41] has joined #lisp 16:49:39 stassats: OK, but how does CFFI know the contents of a library it may not have? How does it know which library to do a use-foreign-library on when I foreign-funcall "foo"? 16:50:17 Hi folks. I'm trying to setup SBCL with SLIME but when I try to push my folder with swank onto the asdf central-registry, I get an error about defining SETF QUOTE 16:50:25 cffi, per se, doesn't really know these things, it's up to implementation 16:50:28 I'm using the latest slime from svn 16:50:45 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7560c4.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:50:47 LiamH: and you need to call use-foreign-library yourself 16:51:01 esteth: Why do you do that? 16:51:08 stassats: right, that's not autoloading then 16:51:20 that's the manual loading I'm doing now 16:51:21 tcr: I'm following along with this video: http://www.guba.com/watch/3000054867 16:51:38 esteth: there's a doc/ directory, go there, type make, and then open slime.pdf 16:51:48 mitre_ [~chatzilla@74.112.63.251] has joined #lisp 16:51:50 tcr: OK, thanks. 16:51:50 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 16:51:53 -!- coldhak [~coldhak@99.152.51.229] has left #lisp 16:52:06 LiamH: I have an autoload function in my ~/rc/common.lisp 16:52:15 LiamH: right, but autoloading sucks anyway 16:52:37 Search defautoload in http://git.informatimago.com/viewgit/index.php?a=viewblob&p=public/rc&h=e7904b65919aed0f8df906f96c16e8493efbd758&hb=4832f0d65a691e96b7f1854528787a404562a538&f=common.lisp 16:52:43 pjb: thanks 16:53:02 fisxoj [~fisxoj@149.43.189.116] has joined #lisp 16:53:02 stassats: in programs, yes. But for interactive use, it's nice. 16:53:06 LiamH: Notice that that source is GPL 16:53:16 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 16:53:20 stassats: good grief, we've now gone full circle. 16:53:35 GPL is the Good Program License. 16:53:54 pjb: i'm thinking that it's bad for interactive use 16:54:09 GPL on small utilities feels more like a virus than a friendly act of sharing. 16:54:18 because i'll better wait more time at start-up than wait before each operation 16:54:24 Small utilities grow bigger programs or libraries... 16:54:36 I think everyone knows pjb's position, let's move on :-) 16:54:50 stassats: yes. It depends whether you start up more frequently than use the given operation. 16:55:05 stassats: So far, I only use it for pseudo-scheme, which I use rarely. 16:56:03 I could make use of an autoloading function where some command line flags of a script are supposed to take in libraries which are otherwise not needed 16:56:41 sounds more like auto-notloading 16:58:44 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 16:59:03 Lazyload would perhaps been a better name :-) 16:59:29 seangrove [~user@70-36-236-168.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 17:01:41 fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 17:01:55 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:02:51 tcr: Now I get Debugger entered--Lisp error: (void-function slime-setup-contribs) 17:10:46 -!- esteth [8afbfa29@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.251.250.41] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:11:09 esteth: either you didn't had loaded the right slime files, or you've got the wrong version. Check your load-path and installed slimes. 17:11:10 esteth [8afbfa29@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.251.250.41] has joined #lisp 17:15:11 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 17:16:23 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 17:16:46 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@149.43.189.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:17:51 jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-67.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:18:59 -!- xan_ [~xan@65.141.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:20:23 -!- esteth [8afbfa29@gateway/web/freenode/ip.138.251.250.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:21:24 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 17:21:41 -!- hlavaty [~user@95-88-27-48-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:26:54 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.163.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:26:59 jstypo [~jstypo@190.200.25.215] has joined #lisp 17:27:11 stassats: arglist display for labels functions seem to be broken, for you too? 17:28:49 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.159.146] has joined #lisp 17:29:13 loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.178] has joined #lisp 17:29:24 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 17:30:06 works here 17:31:06 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:33:31 -!- zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:34:06 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu219.queens.ox.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 17:35:06 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:36:05 -!- Rectify [~Andrel@cpc1-lich6-0-0-cust11.3-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:37:06 kaemo [~mad5ci@150.254.82.89] has joined #lisp 17:40:17 -!- froydnj [~froydnj@gateway.codesourcery.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 22.3.1] 17:40:53 froydnj [~froydnj@gateway.codesourcery.com] has joined #lisp 17:41:55 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:44:22 oconnore [~eric@wsip-70-168-242-70.mc.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:45:03 -!- faot [~faot@e178141026.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:48:06 aurelien` [~Libre@AMarseille-157-1-136-212.w90-37.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:49:12 carlocci [~nes@93.37.197.141] has joined #lisp 17:49:30 -!- aurelien is now known as Guest85725 17:51:30 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-107-111.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: HG`] 17:51:36 -!- Guest85725 [~Libre@fsf/member/aurelien] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:51:40 Kruppe [~user@134.117.27.223] has joined #lisp 17:52:19 -!- Intricate [~todd@virt84.vnet.wnec.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:53:14 -!- aurelien` is now known as aurelien 17:53:23 -!- aurelien [~Libre@AMarseille-157-1-136-212.w90-37.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Changing host] 17:53:23 aurelien [~Libre@fsf/member/aurelien] has joined #lisp 17:55:56 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:56:44 p_l|home [~pl@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 17:56:58 cinch [~cinch@unaffiliated/cinch] has joined #lisp 17:57:12 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:57:51 Rectify [~Andrel@cpc4-asfd3-2-0-cust92.1-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 17:59:43 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.32.185.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:59:46 -!- fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 18:00:58 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-163-70.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:01:28 -!- ASau [~user@95-28-62-161.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:02:06 ASau [~user@95-28-62-161.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 18:02:56 Lycurgus [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:03:13 -!- Lycurgus [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 18:04:53 -!- ntd` [~user@daneel.cc.gt.atl.ga.us] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:04:58 ntd` [~user@daneel.cc.gt.atl.ga.us] has joined #lisp 18:06:12 -!- Kruppe [~user@134.117.27.223] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:06:41 -!- kanru [~kanru@118-168-236-72.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:06:58 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:08:26 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 18:09:34 -!- Rectify [~Andrel@cpc4-asfd3-2-0-cust92.1-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:09:44 Rectify [~Andrel@cpc4-asfd3-2-0-cust92.1-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 18:10:23 -!- Guthur [c0c1f50e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.193.245.14] has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:10:36 Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 18:12:02 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-146-197.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:14:00 Joreji [~thomas@85-065.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:19:04 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 18:19:11 wedgeV [~wedge@cpe-24-193-116-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:20:04 -!- oconnore [~eric@wsip-70-168-242-70.mc.at.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:20:17 ymasory [~ymasory@grok.psych.upenn.edu] has joined #lisp 18:20:47 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 18:20:52 hi all. does anyone know the name of a very simple, toy lisp? i'm looking to implement one 18:21:10 minion: please tell ymasory about LiSP 18:21:11 ymasory: have a look at LiSP: "Lisp in Small Pieces". This book covers Lisp, Scheme and other related dialects, their interpretation, semantics and compilation. To sum it up in a few figures: 500 pages, 11 chapters, 11 interpreters and 2 compilers. 18:21:44 thanks 18:21:56 also, check out PAIP 18:21:59 minion: paip? 18:22:01 paip: Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming: Case Studies in Common Lisp by Peter Norvig. http://www.cliki.net/paip 18:22:51 okay, i was more looking for a syntax sheet than a book about implementations, but i imagine those will include it 18:23:04 what syntax? 18:23:11 there is no syntax. 18:23:31 Kruppe [~user@134.117.27.223] has joined #lisp 18:24:48 i'm on the 100dst something page gaaah 18:24:53 -!- cmm- [~cmm@109.66.205.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:25:03 my brain is swollen 18:25:14 lol 18:25:49 which book? 18:25:51 cmm [~cmm@109.66.205.250] has joined #lisp 18:27:41 minion: lisp500? 18:27:42 lisp500: A 500-line-or-less implementation of a basic Lisp, available at http://www.modeemi.fi/~chery/lisp500/ 18:27:43 fisxoj [~fisxoj@149.43.189.116] has joined #lisp 18:27:57 rfg [~rfg@client-86-16-214-73.glw-bng-11.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 18:28:04 that looks good, thank you 18:28:19 Forbidden. 18:28:32 So good, it's forbidden. 18:28:44 that an esoteric lisp joke? 18:29:00 no. 18:29:21 i see one on google code in C 18:29:49 bsod1 [~osa1@188.56.243.89] has joined #lisp 18:30:04 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 18:30:19 -!- jstypo [~jstypo@190.200.25.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:30:54 -!- skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:32:29 SolarBoom [~Nurlan@85.132.44.35] has joined #lisp 18:34:08 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-126-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 18:34:14 is there course materials in MIT OCW? 18:34:27 about LISP? 18:34:37 minion: sicp? 18:34:37 sicp: The Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs, a CS textbook using Scheme. Available under the CC-BY-NC Licence at (HTML), (Texinfo), and (PDF). Video lectures are available under the CC-BY-SA licence at 18:34:51 not about lisp, but about programming 18:36:01 -!- lanthan_afh [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 18:38:51 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 18:39:33 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-065.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:39:43 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:39:54 Joreji [~thomas@85-065.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:42:48 jstypo [~jstypo@190.200.25.215] has joined #lisp 18:44:46 -!- schme is now known as schmrkc 18:45:36 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 18:48:35 -!- pierrep [~ppasteau@bas1-montreal43-2925255513.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:52:44 petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 18:53:25 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.159.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:54:21 It does have a distinctly lispy theme to it though, icp 18:54:23 sicp* 18:55:15 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.157.249] has joined #lisp 18:56:09 oconnore [~eric@ip68-225-113-244.mc.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:56:52 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@149.43.189.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:57:59 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:00:15 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-163-70.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:05:29 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:08:30 well thanks everyone 19:09:10 -!- kaemo [~mad5ci@150.254.82.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:09:34 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d012f10.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:09:39 hi 19:11:20 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 19:11:41 -!- oconnore [~eric@ip68-225-113-244.mc.at.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:12:39 fogus` [c6970d0f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.151.13.15] has joined #lisp 19:12:56 churib [~churib@dslc-082-082-126-031.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:14:16 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:18:19 -!- loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:18:56 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:19:10 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@cpe-24-193-116-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 19:19:36 Hmmm... has anybody ever needed an ASH-like function that worked for RATIOs? 19:19:44 -!- jstypo [~jstypo@190.200.25.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:22:36 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 19:22:42 mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:23:49 -!- ASau [~user@95-28-62-161.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:24:28 ASau [~user@95-28-62-161.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 19:28:50 pierrep [~ppasteau@dyn-218-190.wireless.concordia.ca] has joined #lisp 19:29:25 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:32:23 housel: * and / are workable substitutes 19:32:28 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 19:35:35 of course (I'm just designing a DSL whose only datatype is RATIO, and am fiddling with the exact semantics of the shift operators) 19:37:06 why do you need shift on ratio? 19:39:16 I need shift on integers, but everything's a ratio, so it might as well work for as many ratios as is reasonable 19:39:34 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:40:15 do you really need shift on integers? can't you get away with (* integer 2) and (truncate integer 2)? 19:40:24 when working with a mop, what is a good reason to have a class with sparse slot storage (e.g. a hashtable)? what is a sound design that necessitates many slots of which only a few have a value? 19:42:35 nostoi [~nostoi@147.Red-95-121-139.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:54 housel: sounds like you're designing something like javascript (-; 19:44:25 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 19:44:29 much weirder than that, actually :-) 19:44:34 -!- schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:44:36 antifuchs: 53 bits should be enough for anybody 19:44:42 schmrkc [~marcus@c83-254-197-212.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 19:44:42 -!- schmrkc [~marcus@c83-254-197-212.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Changing host] 19:44:42 schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 19:44:42 That's DSLs for you 19:46:22 moxiemk1 [~moxiemk1@ETSY.RES.CMU.EDU] has joined #lisp 19:47:30 froydnj: that, and shift operators on floats. 19:47:43 antifuchs: *shudder* 19:48:54 froydnj: oh yeah (: 19:49:07 -!- pierrep [~ppasteau@dyn-218-190.wireless.concordia.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:49:58 housel: sounds like you want to increment the divisor by multiples of two for each left shift (: 19:50:04 petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 19:50:19 pierrep [~ppasteau@dyn-218-190.wireless.concordia.ca] has joined #lisp 19:50:36 (err, denominator) 19:50:58 -!- ravic [~ravi@118-93-176-141.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:51:14 -!- ATH500 [~ATH500@70.35.170.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:51:30 limetree [~hi@c-0be9e155.1226-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 19:54:36 -!- Kruppe [~user@134.117.27.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:55:11 -!- murilasso [~murilasso@189.103.20.140] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:55:49 ferada` [~user@g230250123.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:56:03 -!- pierrep [~ppasteau@dyn-218-190.wireless.concordia.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:59:25 -!- ferada [~user@g224149222.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:59:55 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633344.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:00:46 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 20:03:07 SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 20:03:47 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@147.Red-95-121-139.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20:06:21 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:09:14 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-107-111.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 20:09:41 -!- craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:09:47 pierrep [~ppasteau@dyn-218-190.wireless.concordia.ca] has joined #lisp 20:12:48 sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:04 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-107-111.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 20:16:12 murilasso [~murilasso@189.103.20.140] has joined #lisp 20:16:22 -!- iwillig [~ivan@ool-18b944f4.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:17:00 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 20:17:23 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-126-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:18:01 ferada`` [~user@g224150062.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:21:05 -!- ferada` [~user@g230250123.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:21:18 lookup [~lookup@155.247.131.11] has joined #lisp 20:21:20 -!- lookup [~lookup@155.247.131.11] has left #lisp 20:22:30 kaemo [~mad5ci@d38-66.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:23:00 SKYLAMER` [skylamer@78.90.213.55] has joined #lisp 20:23:03 -!- SKYLAMER` [skylamer@78.90.213.55] has left #lisp 20:24:47 SKYLAMER` [skylamer@78.90.213.55] has joined #lisp 20:25:45 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:25:49 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:26:02 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 20:27:06 mije [58b510d1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.181.16.209] has joined #lisp 20:27:09 -!- SolarBoom [~Nurlan@85.132.44.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:27:09 hi there 20:27:09 -!- Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: omghaahhahaohwow] 20:29:20 does anybody knows about how clos works under clozure cl ? 20:29:30 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 20:29:54 -!- hansef [~hansef@c-24-21-202-103.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: hansef] 20:30:00 mije: try #ccl 20:30:05 -!- churib [~churib@dslc-082-082-126-031.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:30:05 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.88.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:30:14 ok thanks 20:31:17 -!- Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:31:43 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.79.126] has joined #lisp 20:36:20 -!- SKYLAMER` [skylamer@78.90.213.55] has left #lisp 20:38:10 Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has joined #lisp 20:38:47 I guess for tuples I can simply use lists right? 20:39:07 I'm trying to have a function that return 2 values, like haskell's (a,b) 20:39:28 clhs values 20:39:29 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_values.htm 20:39:31 Fuco: depends. If you just want it to return two distinct values, use values. 20:39:41 ...right. Like (floor pi) does 20:40:10 hi sykopomp 20:40:15 hello. 20:40:20 I have a function that do merge in mergesort, and I also want to count the number of inverses while I merge the lists 20:40:30 so then I have to somehow return merged list and the number of inverses 20:40:41 values is for that. 20:40:43 -!- muhdik [~IceChat7@parkmobile-usa.oneringnetworks.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:40:46 ok thanks 20:41:09 that's one of the many really nifty things in CL :-) 20:42:09 the killer feature is being able to optionally ignore all but the first value 20:42:21 Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:34 well I'm new to lisp so killer features will have to wait :P 20:42:54 and that all the extra values tend to be compiled away by implementations when you don't capture them at the other end. 20:42:57 Fuco: you don't have to do anything special to make it happen. That's what's killer about it 20:43:23 davertron [~david@c-24-218-166-166.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:43:38 "surrounded by killer features" 20:43:45 hm... 20:43:55 Fuco: multiple values are handy, as long as you don't mind that they're not first-class 20:44:00 does it work like an accumulator? 20:44:12 Fuco: no 20:44:37 Fuco: try (floor pi) on the repl 20:44:54 or even (values 1 2) 20:44:56 I see 20:45:10 and how can I grab 1st/2nd? 20:45:19 Fuco: the function actually returns multiple values, and in most situations, you'll only really get the first value. If you want to use the rest of the values, you need a form that is able to capture and use them. 20:45:27 clhs multiple-value-bind 20:45:28 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_multip.htm 20:45:49 -!- mikey [~mikey@unaffiliated/mikey] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:47:54 well I'm most confused about how to use it in recursion 20:48:13 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has left #lisp 20:48:19 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 20:48:37 right now I have this merge-list function http://lisp.pastebin.com/UF2xbM8P 20:49:27 Fuco: you'd be accumulating two values at the same time 20:49:59 craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 20:50:10 well this is damn confusing because I was doing a lot of prolog lately 20:50:22 -!- rfg [~rfg@client-86-16-214-73.glw-bng-11.adsl.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: rfg] 20:50:22 and there the values "unwinds" when you go backwards :P 20:50:41 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7560c4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:53:26 rff [~rff@ip72-207-243-174.br.br.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:55:15 what is the difference between e.g. (boole boole-and x y) and (logand x y) 20:55:19 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:55:26 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 20:56:23 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:57:40 clhs boole 20:57:41 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_boole.htm 20:58:52 zvrba: As you can see, nothing. 20:58:59 Edward [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-49-169.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:59:22 i didn't even know about boole. 20:59:25 integer-length: Returns the number of bits needed to represent integer in binary two's-complement format. 20:59:31 yet, (integer length 0) is 0. 20:59:46 erm, (integer-length 0) is 0. 21:00:02 but you still need 1 bit to represent zero in binary. 21:01:24 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 21:01:30 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:01:35 someone needs to file a defect report 21:01:42 :-) 21:02:19 you don't need a bit. All 0 bits above the largest 1 bit are implicit 21:02:20 zvrba: all you need is the sign bit. integer-length excludes the sign bit 21:02:26 half bit suffices 21:02:45 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:04:50 Krystof: maybe you're right, but "binary 2s complement format" always includes sign bit. 21:04:52 well I can't wrap my head around that :( 21:05:12 Krystof: so the sentence in the spec is then incorrect. 21:05:23 -!- pierrep [~ppasteau@dyn-218-190.wireless.concordia.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:05:25 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 21:05:28 Fuco: what are you trying to wrap your head around? 21:05:37 those values 21:06:04 Fuco: the mechanism or in your mergesort instance? 21:06:12 the way I coded it, I have to extract fst and snd from the return value (which is recursively called) and then apply something to the results and then wrap it in the tuple again 21:06:19 (multiple-value-bind (x y) (values 3 4) (format t "~S ~S ~%" x y)) 21:06:19 in my mergesort 21:06:32 zvrba: kind of, but that's really really messy :) 21:06:44 clhs multiple-value-call 21:06:44 Fuco: oh, just return (cons first-return-value second-return-value) 21:06:44 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_multip.htm 21:06:50 Fuco: and extract them with car and cdr. 21:07:08 what is so hard about that_ 21:07:10 ? 21:07:27 well :P 21:07:30 [21:38:42] I guess for tuples I can simply use lists right? 21:07:34 [21:39:24] clhs values 21:07:41 just use lists 21:07:55 "values" is, imho, just an optimization 21:08:01 zvrba: that you'd need users to destructure your merge-list -- although I guess you can just have %merge-list internally. 21:08:11 cons/list always allocates something on the heap, whereas values *might* be optimized away 21:08:31 Fuco: you could just go the defvar route :p 21:08:38 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.56.243.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:08:39 sykopomp: one can argue about wheter let-form is less elegant than M-V-B 21:08:49 I have no idea what defvar is :D 21:09:04 I just thought "it'd be a nice example to do something with lisp" so here I am :D 21:09:16 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 21:09:18 Fuco: declares a global variable 21:09:25 -!- craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:09:27 that's ugly :D 21:09:34 but simple 21:09:44 it works 21:09:47 dlowe: it's more about specialness than globalness 21:10:16 dlowe: and i bet special variables are not that simple for beginners 21:10:18 jdz: No, special declarations are about specialness 21:10:31 defvar is about global variables that are also special 21:11:00 dlowe: except you cannot have global non-special variables? 21:11:24 jdz: you can easily have non-global special variables 21:11:30 you can fudge lexical globals using define-symbol-macro. 21:11:37 dlowe: me yes, begginers no 21:11:39 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.235.211] has joined #lisp 21:12:02 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host85-173-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:12:11 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.235.211] has left #lisp 21:12:23 beginners aren't likely to encounter a situation where specialness matters anyway, because they've been trained by other languages to avoid it 21:12:49 (assuming a beginner to lisp and not to programming) 21:13:05 what's a good lib to access ldap? 21:13:08 homie [~user@xdsl-78-35-162-251.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:13:09 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 21:13:11 wow, i just made a local special variable. it worked! :) 21:13:36 dlowe: ...unless you happen to use a lisp where (setf x 1) in the repl causes x to become special 21:13:46 muhdik [~IceChat7@parkmobile-usa.oneringnetworks.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:58 prxq: heh. that's true. it still makes fearfully confusing warnings, though 21:14:00 prxq: clisp makes them globally lexical! 21:14:06 then the newbie is ripe for being blindsided, even if he has a lot of experience programming. 21:14:49 sykopomp: sbcl, i think, too. Or does something else dwimy enough 21:15:07 what is the difference between special and dynamic-extent declarations? 21:15:15 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:15:16 clhs is not very illuminating 21:15:20 one is about scope the other about extent 21:15:48 roughly, scope is the text area a binding is valid 21:16:12 Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:20 what is then extent? 21:16:34 extent, equally roughly, is the run time a value is valid 21:16:42 ok 21:16:43 -!- c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:17:35 if you declare something to have dynamic extent, it means for example that it can be stack-allocated (whence it follows that the stack-allocated value will not be valid all time but only as long as the stack has not been unwound to a prior state) 21:17:35 ATH500 [~ATH500@70.35.170.61] has joined #lisp 21:17:49 does that make some sense? 21:17:59 yes 21:18:04 jolly good 21:18:10 -!- rff [~rff@ip72-207-243-174.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:18:11 i'm acquainted with the terms from C 21:18:24 i was not aware that variables were not allocated on the stack by default 21:18:27 Makoryu [~bloodgog@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:18:55 In a language with a garbage collector, most values reside on the heap 21:20:09 ...Or do they? 21:20:30 values, not variables 21:20:39 i mean, the run-time could copy values from stack to heap if one makes a closure 21:20:53 -!- aurelien [~Libre@fsf/member/aurelien] has quit [Quit: be free!] 21:20:55 that kind of analysis is not easy 21:20:59 but why should it allocate everything premptively on the stack 21:21:00 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 21:21:09 erm , on the heap 21:21:17 mpederse` [~user@70.90.14.154] has joined #lisp 21:21:21 what if you stick something into an aggregrate data structure? 21:21:30 why not? 21:21:52 for example? 21:21:55 you have a garbage collector anyway taking care of the garbage you lay astray 21:22:36 yeah. so dynamic-extent is basically meant as an optimization hint? 21:23:01 yes; perhaps also as a documentary hint 21:23:14 ok 21:23:15 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 21:23:20 bedtime now. 21:23:59 zvrba: It depends on the language. If you can trust compile-time static analysis to a certain extent, you might as well lean on the fact that stack management is easier to predict than heap management 21:24:36 tcr: is there a searchable name for the kind of analysis necessary to do regular stack-allocation? 21:24:36 escape analysis? 21:24:36 pierrep [~ppasteau@dyn-218-190.wireless.concordia.ca] has joined #lisp 21:24:39 hagman [~hagman@HSI-KBW-085-216-093-236.hsi.kabelbw.de] has joined #lisp 21:24:50 sykopomp: That's what they call it in Javaland 21:24:51 I think so 21:24:59 I dunno if that's what everyone calls it 21:25:10 I was taught escape analysis 21:29:10 -!- _mathrick is now known as mathrick 21:29:15 Anyway, in some languages (Javascript) reflection is powerful enough to let you do silly shit like alter the local stack frame at run time from outside the corresponding function 21:29:16 -!- mpederse` is now known as mpedersen` 21:29:27 You have writable access to stack frames? 21:29:39 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-24-4-147-168.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:41 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:30:15 Ralith_ [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 21:30:16 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:30:17 fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 21:32:42 tcr: Well, "stack" frames 21:32:44 -!- Borbus [borbus@borbus.kicks-ass.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:32:45 Borbus [borbus@borbus.kicks-ass.net] has joined #lisp 21:32:45 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 21:32:45 -!- ddv [~ddevaal@bogomips.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:32:46 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:32:46 tcr: As far as I know, thanks to this feature and others like it, it's immensely difficult for any compiler to actually map Javascript's "stack" to a real stack 21:33:31 -!- felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:33:42 -!- hagman [~hagman@HSI-KBW-085-216-093-236.hsi.kabelbw.de] has quit [Quit: hagman] 21:34:30 _death [void@91.121.18.93] has joined #lisp 21:34:47 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:34:47 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:34:47 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.66.205.250] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:34:47 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-146-197.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:34:47 -!- ntd` [~user@daneel.cc.gt.atl.ga.us] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:34:47 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu219.queens.ox.ac.uk] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:34:47 -!- devinus [~devinus@ps23102.dreamhost.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:34:47 -!- zvrba [~zvrba@anakin.ifi.uio.no] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:34:47 -!- quasi_ [u404@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xbbjttmcxglsrjql] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:34:48 -!- luis [~luis@nhop.r42.eu] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:34:49 -!- adeht [void@91.121.18.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:35:40 http://lisp.pastebin.com/UxfqyMPL hooray :D 21:35:40 and now I'll go and find builtin method to do this :D 21:35:43 -!- ATH500 [~ATH500@70.35.170.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:36:03 is it possible to programatically alter the coloring of text in a slime buffer? Like with escape codes, for example? 21:37:30 SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 21:37:30 cmm [~cmm@109.66.205.250] has joined #lisp 21:37:30 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-146-197.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 21:37:30 ntd` [~user@daneel.cc.gt.atl.ga.us] has joined #lisp 21:37:30 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu219.queens.ox.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 21:37:30 devinus [~devinus@ps23102.dreamhost.com] has joined #lisp 21:37:30 zvrba [~zvrba@anakin.ifi.uio.no] has joined #lisp 21:37:30 quasi_ [u404@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xbbjttmcxglsrjql] has joined #lisp 21:37:30 luis [~luis@nhop.r42.eu] has joined #lisp 21:37:33 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 21:38:00 prxq: no 21:38:30 darn :-) 21:39:09 not like totally impossible, but you need some SMOP 21:39:35 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 21:41:29 well, i guess i'll stay monochrome then. 21:41:33 -!- Ralith_ is now known as Ralith 21:42:29 the emacs term package can interpret escape codes. Maybe one could just rip that out. SMOP indeed. 21:42:40 rfg [~rfg@client-86-16-214-73.glw-bng-11.adsl.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:43:39 prxq: do you have -no- highlighting at all? 21:43:56 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633166.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 21:44:16 well yes. But all output is grey 21:44:23 hm 21:44:27 felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has joined #lisp 21:44:40 the prompt has a different color, and the result values are red 21:44:56 -!- novaburst [~novaburst@sourcemage/mage/novaburst] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:45:10 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 21:45:10 but (format t "something") means grey. 21:46:09 c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:49:38 SolarBoom [~Nurlan@85.132.44.35] has joined #lisp 21:50:12 What would be wanted is the interpreation of the ANSI color code at least, for program output. Since slime has not this feature, (inferior-lisp has it!), you have to go back to inferior-lisp, shell or an xterm, instead of slime, when running your christmas-tree programs. 21:50:20 or your fruit salad programs, depending... 21:52:44 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:53:31 rff [~rff@ip72-207-243-174.br.br.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:55:18 ATH500 [~ATH500@70.35.170.61] has joined #lisp 21:55:51 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:56:30 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 21:56:41 -!- SolarBoom [~Nurlan@85.132.44.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:57:09 eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 21:59:51 SolarBoom [~Nurlan@85.132.44.35] has joined #lisp 22:00:45 -!- pierrep [~ppasteau@dyn-218-190.wireless.concordia.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:02:05 -!- Edward [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-49-169.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:02:11 i used that a lot in C/C++ programs. 22:03:16 fruit salad is great 22:03:27 *prxq* goes to sleep 22:03:33 good night 22:03:36 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d012f10.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:04:08 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 22:06:48 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7560c4.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:07:43 horze [~kim@c-601172d5.24-87-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 22:07:44 c m rft yu .,/r;'ltttttttttttttttt9l0;÷6lrt,,,,,,gkkkkkjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjjj 22:08:01 fruit salad? 22:08:28 Xach did you just fall asleep on your keyboard 22:08:36 Either that or a cat walked on it. 22:10:05 entrosca [~entrosca@ip98-167-231-101.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:10:10 Or perhaps Xach was just assassinated by jealous competitors to Quicklisp. 22:10:52 katesmith_ [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 22:11:48 it wasn't clappa! 22:12:00 -!- SolarBoom [~Nurlan@85.132.44.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:12:26 SolarBoom [~Nurlan@85.132.44.35] has joined #lisp 22:13:35 -!- Rectify [~Andrel@cpc4-asfd3-2-0-cust92.1-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:14:11 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:14:47 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:15:04 -!- antgreen [~user@nat/redhat/x-cjptztmxsrdsuyer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:16:52 -!- borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:18:14 Edward [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-54-182.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:18:16 Sorry. Isaac got to the keyboard. 22:18:17 -!- katesmith_ is now known as katesmith 22:19:26 Xach: Cat? Dog? Son? 22:19:31 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A72C7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:19:32 Python? 22:19:39 -!- horze [~kim@c-601172d5.24-87-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: horze] 22:19:45 a scientist? 22:20:05 http://www.flickr.com/photos/26364365@N00/5214369037/ 22:20:34 Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050068015.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 22:20:40 defying gravity 22:21:45 playing scrabble and not hacking? 22:22:19 Guthur: it's a gateway hack 22:22:26 Xach: The guys's kinda out-of-focus :). Like Woody Allen in one of his films. 22:23:05 Was Woody being swung by the arms as well 22:23:16 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:23:23 At a point in life  probably yes. 22:23:33 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 22:25:08 mek||malloc [~mek@wifi-roaming-128-4-225-80.nss.udel.edu] has joined #lisp 22:25:23 rvirding [~chatzilla@h137n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 22:26:05 Rectify [~Andrel@cpc1-lich6-0-0-cust11.3-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 22:26:19 Hi folks, how would I go about removing a string from a list. My guess was (remove "string" '("list" "of" "string" "s")), but no dice. Do I need some special form to identify "string" as type string? 22:26:31 trye :test #'equal 22:27:10 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 22:27:50 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-174.mirrorimage.net] has left #lisp 22:28:14 entropi [~entrosca@ip98-167-231-101.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:29:00 stassats: I'm aware the differences between =, eq, equal, equalp, etc. 22:29:30 i am glad that you are aware 22:30:20 stassats: I'm not sure what it is I was suppose to realize from your comment. 22:30:35 mek||malloc: are you also aware of the availability of the :test keyword argument for many functions? 22:30:37 wow. 22:30:52 mek||malloc: how about exactly what he told you? 22:30:59 mek||malloc: you didn't provide a :test... 22:31:05 -!- entrosca [~entrosca@ip98-167-231-101.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:31:11 ehu: No, I was not aware. 22:31:15 entrosca [~entrosca@ip98-167-231-101.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:31:19 which means it will default to EQL (right?) 22:31:34 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:31:34 clhs remove 22:31:35 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_rm_rm.htm 22:31:52 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 22:31:53 An thus, I simply evaluated :test #'equal => # which was not immediately helpful without knowing the significance of the :test keyword. 22:32:00 s/an/and 22:32:02 sykopomp: right 22:32:43 mek||malloc: i am sorry that i assumed that you know more than you do 22:32:47 srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 22:32:50 ferada``` [~user@g224146090.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 22:32:53 stassats: where is it in CLHS that it specifies EQL as default? 22:32:55 stassats, ehu, sykopomp: Thank you for the direction. 22:33:38 -!- entropi [~entrosca@ip98-167-231-101.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:33:53 clhs 17.2.1 22:33:53 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/17_ba.htm 22:35:08 stassats: Your suggestion was very helpful, thank you very much. 22:35:22 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 22:35:25 -!- ferada``` [~user@g224146090.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 22:35:28 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has left #lisp 22:35:31 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:36:19 -!- ferada`` [~user@g224150062.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:37:19 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:39:02 Thorn [~Thorn@unaffiliated/thorn] has joined #lisp 22:40:23 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:40:42 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 22:41:31 -!- Taiyou` [~Taiyou@bas3-toronto47-1242432703.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:44:43 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:44:50 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.52.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:44:57 -!- sadeness [~zebadaia@altlinux/developer/sadeness] has left #lisp 22:45:02 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 22:48:14 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 22:50:06 craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 22:51:04 -!- marijnjh [~user@p5DDB3DC0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:53:27 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:53:27 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 22:53:56 -!- SolarBoom [~Nurlan@85.132.44.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:56:51 How can i get the number of arguments of a function? 22:57:35 try (describe ) 22:57:56 (describe #'+) for example 22:58:12 if you mean programatically, I'm not sure 22:58:50 (loop for i from 0 unless (nth-value 1 (ignore-errors (apply function (make-list i)))) return i) 22:59:02 duh 22:59:14 :D 22:59:55 clhs f-l-l 22:59:56 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for f-l-l. 23:00:04 clhs f-l-e 23:00:05 FUNCTION-LAMBDA-EXPRESSION: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_fn_lam.htm 23:00:19 but it is as reliable as my method 23:03:34 outch 23:04:08 You could define your functions as generic functions. 23:04:15 and then use g-f-l-l 23:04:26 So basically there isn't a good way of doing it? 23:04:30 or you could steal swank's code 23:04:44 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:05:00 -!- mije [58b510d1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.181.16.209] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:05:19 in reality, you shouldn't know this, unless you should 23:06:26 -!- muhdik [~IceChat7@parkmobile-usa.oneringnetworks.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:06:39 What i wanted to do is support functions of either 1 or 3 arguments on a MAP-like function over a 2d array, to pass either just the value, or value and row/col 23:07:08 that doesn't sound good 23:09:25 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:09:32 -!- Fuco [~dota.keys@fuco.sks3.muni.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:11:06 zomgbie [~jesus@213.162.68.59] has joined #lisp 23:11:52 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:12:20 -!- ASau [~user@95-28-62-161.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:12:30 compmstr [~compmstr@adsl-074-185-008-197.sip.clt.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 23:14:54 ASau [~user@95-28-62-161.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 23:15:41 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:16:49 Is there a function to find duplicates in a sequence? 23:16:52 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:17:13 there is a function to remove them 23:17:30 I rather want to know what they are and how many times they show up 23:18:15 that you'd have to write yourself 23:18:27 (- (length my-seq) (length (remove-duplicates my-seq)))? 23:18:41 :D 23:18:42 Yeah, i was going to, but decided to see if there was something already 23:18:54 sykopomp: that doesn't accomplish what i want 23:19:09 drdo: this is true! 23:19:10 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46] has joined #lisp 23:20:18 drdo: (loop for e in (remove-duplicates list) collect (cons e (count e list))) 23:21:18 drdo: (remove-duplicates sequence :test (complement #'eql)) ; removes non-duplicates. sort & count. (: 23:21:25 (let (duplicates) (remove-duplicates '(3 1 2 3 4) :test (lambda (x y) (when (eql x y) (incf (getf duplicates x 1))) nil)) duplicates) 23:21:28 That would work if you filtered out the ones that COUNT only returns 1 for 23:21:37 set-difference? 23:21:40 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@213.162.68.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:22:15 drdo: but what is it that you really want? 23:22:30 ah, wait, forget my solution. oops. 23:23:02 I want to find duplicates in a sequence (list specifically) and know what they are and how many times they are there 23:23:05 yeah, set-difference with coercion to a list and remove-duplicates sounds like the right thing. 23:23:17 drdo: why do you have such a desire? 23:23:35 stassats: sudoku solving 23:24:07 yates [~yates@nc-76-3-105-199.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 23:24:15 plain search doesn't cut it for large ones 23:25:06 is there a yui library for weblocks? 23:25:14 i've seen hints of it on the net but can't find the complete deal 23:25:16 drdo: have you read http://norvig.com/sudoku.html ? 23:25:27 nop, i haven't 23:25:32 let me check it out 23:26:19 I quickly skimmed over it 23:26:26 Doesn't look like what i'm looking for 23:26:46 I'm of course using constraints, pretty much like shown there 23:27:31 25x25 sudokus are too slow though 23:27:48 16x16 and less are pretty much instant on my computer, but above that it's quite bad 23:29:40 seems like you want a collect-duplicates function. you could contribute it to alexandria when you're done (: 23:30:45 or you could avoid making duplicates in the first place 23:31:00 -!- phromo [phromo@c-afc0e455.015-359-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )] 23:31:10 what? 23:31:24 What i want is to check for duplicate constraints in rows/cols/blocks 23:31:31 like in china, one family, one child 23:31:57 So i can further increase the constraints (remove possibilities) from the other cells in the same row/col/block 23:33:32 plain backtracking dfs with only singleton insertion is working greatly for puzzles up to 16x16 23:33:38 beyond that it's very slow 23:36:05 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-093-203.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 23:37:47 drdo: http://paste.lisp.org/display/117223? 23:39:02 order of results is not guaranteed. 23:40:38 antifuchs: why class-of instead of type-of? 23:41:06 stassats: because I found no easy work-around for incompatibility of (simple-vector 10) with a sequence of length 4 (-: 23:41:33 you should make it a simple-vector, and coerce the result 23:41:54 tcr: into what? I'll have to parse the input sequence type spec. 23:42:06 it's just a quick hack, but it's a start. when polished, it could go into alexandria, I think 23:42:28 ddv [~ddevaal@bogomips.nl] has joined #lisp 23:42:36 Hmm 23:42:50 It does iterate over the sequence 3 times, there must be a better way 23:42:59 drdo: it iterates over the sequence once 23:43:05 then twice over the resulting duplicate set 23:43:08 Yes sorry 23:43:11 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:43:16 which, depending on the number of dupes, might be small (-: 23:43:17 drdo: but it's still O(n) 23:43:18 antifuchs: coerce takes a type specifier, I can't recall it's exact specification regarding how it will interpret it 23:43:41 easy optimization: if the lenghts of the dupe set and the input seq are the same, you don't have dupes (: 23:43:47 tcr: right (: 23:43:48 so there should be no interpretation / parsing on your part 23:43:58 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 23:44:19 tcr: (type-of #(1 2 3)) will give me (simple-vector 3) on sbcl. this is not the right type for a result vector that is empty. 23:44:35 and you could just use map nil to iterate over sequences 23:44:36 is what I'm saying. I wasn't in the mood for type grammars (: 23:44:45 stassats: aah, yeah, I missed that. 23:44:47 Oh ok 23:45:57 -!- limetree [~hi@c-0be9e155.1226-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Lämnar] 23:46:02 StrmSrfr [~storm@adsl-32-170-63.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 23:46:30 I wonder why DOSEQ doesn't exist 23:46:41 there's a library called sequence-iterators 23:46:56 http://common-lisp.net/project/sequence-iterators/ 23:48:20 Hey guys, weird, probably irrelevant question: CL spec says "function name [...] A symbol or a list (setf symbol)." I'm wondering if any implementations have extended this to allow other symbols in the first place of the list for some purpose? Also, would this make them non-conforming? 23:48:41 -!- jconrad [~jconrad@host109-152-180-147.range109-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: jconrad] 23:48:44 sbcl has for internal purposes 23:48:49 drdo: another optimization would be to have two hash tables, one with known dupes (those with count >= 2), and one with known elements. That way, you save on time expenses 23:48:53 StrmSrfr: there are no other symbols 23:49:02 aidalgol [~user@114-134-9-4.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:49:13 Taiyou` [~Taiyou@141.117.174.48] has joined #lisp 23:50:02 tcr: neat, where should I look to find out more? 23:50:12 stassats: I'm not sure how to respond to that. 23:50:34 StrmSrfr: well, all symbols are allowed in the first place of a list 23:50:37 StrmSrfr: M-. on sb-impl::valid-function-name-p 23:50:54 thanks tcr 23:51:17 pnq [~nick@ACA4944A.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 23:51:18 I don't think it will satisfy your curiosity; it's really an internal thing 23:51:45 I think some of the commercial vendors did 23:52:04 Lispworks has dspecs which is somewhat related 23:52:04 drdo: http://paste.lisp.org/display/117223#1 - this might be better 23:52:10 StrmSrfr: or you meant in the caar? 23:52:25 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:52:45 drdo: trades a bit of space for a bunch of speed if you have a large input set and only few dupes 23:53:07 of course, you accumulate a hash table that has as many elements as your input set 23:53:31 no, you didn't mean that because you can't do ((setf foo) ...) 23:53:37 stassats: I mean as a function name 23:53:50 antifuchs: FWIW, I have an assert-no-duplicates thing in our utilities (mostly for guarding against duplicates clauses in macros), and it does a set-difference, and then a dolist+remove on that result. Of course it only works on lists. 23:53:54 I'm probably going to make the counts hash and then construct an alist of results 23:53:56 Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 23:54:20 I was just thinking how weird it is that "(setf whatever)" counts as a function name, and was wondering if anyone had created other weird function names and what they used them for. 23:54:34 If only i remembered how to LOOP over hash tables 23:54:35 StrmSrfr: ansi cl doesn't allow that 23:54:50 StrmSrfr: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/26_glo_f.htm#function_name 23:55:14 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Quit:] 23:55:35 StrmSrfr: but that doesn't keep allegro cl from letting you refer to labels inside functions by using names like that (: 23:56:21 drdo: if only there was something like clhs 23:57:07 stassats: I've looked it up already, what's with the bitching? 23:57:09 antifuchs: there we go: http://paste.lisp.org/display/117223#3 23:57:11 Well, I didn't try to lawyer the spec (yet), but I would think you could do it, as long as you rejected your extended names wherever the spec specifies that something must be a "function name"? Which is probably a silly idea. 23:57:30 ouch 23:58:36 -!- sdsds is now known as Mr_Rager 23:58:48 -!- Mr_Rager is now known as MrRager 23:58:50 Oh I was wrong, it seems like it's actually sequence-generic 23:59:05 -!- MrRager is now known as MrRageR 23:59:21 not quite