00:00:08 -!- Quetzalcoatl_ [~godless@cpe-75-186-5-185.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:00:23 redline6561 [~redline@64.134.180.9] has joined #lisp 00:01:05 i didnt know if networking (wrong word i know) was "difficult" with lisp (gotta start somewhere though :)) 00:01:15 Hm...seems there is a thing called flexi streams that I can somehow combine with usocket to get rid of those pesky dos newlines. 00:02:11 Any other ideas? 00:02:24 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 00:02:29 I've pasted my code: http://paste.lisp.org/display/117003#2 00:02:41 craiggles: Why would it be difficult? 00:03:50 true, silly question, sorry for wasting your time 00:04:40 hm...since I've been trying for several hours now I don't find it quite that silly 00:04:50 cYmen: What exactly is the problem? 00:04:57 -!- tsuru [~charlie@adsl-179-28-67.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:05:03 See the paste above. 00:05:16 I started with the webserver code from Land of Lisp and tried to adapt it to sbcl. 00:05:34 by the way 00:05:42 you don't need that "then" on the LOOP 00:05:52 see Question 3 ;) 00:06:02 I can never figure out how to do something with loop from the docs.. 00:06:03 just remove that line 00:06:53 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-24-147-116-20.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:06:54 if you don't supply a "then", the expression after the "=" is used every iteration 00:06:56 huh? I thought I tried that and it didn't change anymore... 00:07:00 oh 00:07:06 must have mixed it up with 'with' or something 00:07:13 Cool, thanks. 00:07:21 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 00:08:38 My unwind-protect doesn't seem to work either. 00:08:54 you don't need that either 00:09:20 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Client Quit] 00:09:38 I don't? 00:09:45 But the port is blocked if it crashes... 00:09:45 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 00:09:56 check the third argument for read-line 00:10:07 zac31415` [~user@c-68-84-149-234.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:10:29 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-24-147-116-20.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:10:38 -!- zac31415` [~user@c-68-84-149-234.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:11:11 (for line = (read-line stream nil) while line do (format t "~A~%" line)) 00:11:49 missed the loop, but i think you get it 00:12:12 -!- jesusabdullah [~jesusabdu@li225-26.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:12:13 -!- zac314159 [~user@c-68-84-149-234.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:12:14 Yeah, but since I'm messing with it there is always reason to crash.... 00:12:26 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 00:13:01 jesusabdullah [~jesusabdu@li225-26.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 00:14:07 . 00:15:58 -!- craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:16:20 maybe I should use different sockets to avoid problems with newlines 00:16:42 Any suggestions? sbcl sockets? usocket + flexi-streams? 00:16:59 -!- xinming_ [~hyy@115.221.14.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:19:16 jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 00:20:18 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.217.168] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 00:20:23 powerje [~powerj@adsl-75-60-240-164.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:20:30 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:20:55 GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-84-85.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:22:03 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@83.222.167.92] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:23:48 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 00:26:36 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-66.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:27:45 symbole` [~user@216.214.176.130] has joined #lisp 00:27:49 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.58.222] has joined #lisp 00:28:28 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.50.170] has joined #lisp 00:29:13 -!- symbole [~user@216.214.176.130] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:32:41 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:32:56 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 00:34:17 cYmen: What is the problem that you have? 00:35:38 my firefox seems to send dos newlines 00:35:50 the ^M in the pasted output 00:36:39 That's just part of the HTTP protocol 00:36:52 and emacs shows up carriage return as ^M 00:39:44 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive_] 00:41:06 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:47:22 hm...so what do I do about it? 00:47:35 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-116-137.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:48:25 drdo: checking for a line with length one to find the empty line at the end seems somehow dirty :) 00:48:37 cYmen: What do you want to do? 00:48:42 p_l|uni [~pl@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 00:49:00 Parse the http request. 00:49:16 -!- jweiss_ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:49:49 What is stopping you? 00:50:26 Well, a) I have to get rid of the ^Ms somehow and I can't say remove #\Newline because it's not that kind of newline. 00:50:45 It's a #\Return 00:50:51 b) It works but as I said checking if the line has length one (nothing in it but the ^M) to find empty lines seems lame 00:51:06 That might make all my problems go away... 00:51:11 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp3255.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 00:52:06 the line with a return only is part of the http protocol 00:52:08 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 00:52:23 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483A3F9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:52:35 I simply assumed it terminates the request. Does it? 00:52:43 yes 00:52:48 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:52:51 Alright. 00:53:07 Looks good. I will connect it to the parsing stuff from Land of Lisp tomorrow and see if it works. 00:53:18 Thanks for the help! It's much appreciated. 00:55:14 tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 00:55:22 Kirjava [kzxathcx@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-byjnzjpirepanznd] has joined #lisp 00:55:39 HOW DID THIS GET HERE I AM NOT GOOD WITH COMPUTER 00:55:41 -!- Kirjava [kzxathcx@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-byjnzjpirepanznd] has left #lisp 00:55:55 lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 00:59:14 s1gma_ [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 00:59:26 -!- DrForr [~drforr@pool-98-112-230-87.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:00:17 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:00:26 -!- gz [gz@clozure-93943513.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout] 01:00:56 DrForr [~drforr@pool-98-112-230-87.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:01:11 -!- SV_Nik [~ngkhatu@99.89.3.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:01:16 -!- gz 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Leaving.] 02:58:50 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:02:14 -!- Joreji [~thomas@67-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:03:17 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:03:48 Joreji [~thomas@67-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 03:07:57 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-109-81.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:09:46 LiamH [~healy@pool-72-75-100-166.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:11:56 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:12:21 Avisch [~Avisch@cpe-74-67-177-141.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:15:37 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:27:04 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:27:22 felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has joined #lisp 03:27:32 sabalaba [~sabalaba@211.101.128.18] has joined #lisp 03:31:31 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:34:57 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-0-111.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:36:25 arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 03:37:44 -!- Avisch [~Avisch@cpe-74-67-177-141.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:40:38 Is there a difference in the long form and short form of defsetf in terms of substitution of arguments? 03:48:47 murilass1 [~murilasso@189.103.20.140] has joined #lisp 03:49:57 -!- murilass1 [~murilasso@189.103.20.140] has quit [Client Quit] 03:50:47 murilass1 [~murilasso@189.103.20.140] has joined #lisp 03:50:54 -!- murilass1 [~murilasso@189.103.20.140] has quit [Client Quit] 03:52:25 murilass1 [~murilasso@189.103.20.140] has joined #lisp 03:53:23 -!- murilass1 [~murilasso@189.103.20.140] has quit [Client Quit] 03:53:43 murilass1 [~murilasso@189.103.20.140] has joined #lisp 03:54:49 -!- murilass1 [~murilasso@189.103.20.140] has quit [Client Quit] 03:55:17 -!- Hun [~Hun@80.81.19.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:56:36 murilass1 [~murilasso@189.103.20.140] has joined #lisp 03:56:37 -!- murilass1 [~murilasso@189.103.20.140] has quit [Client Quit] 03:58:14 moxiemk1 [~moxiemk1@67.143.83.128] has joined #lisp 04:02:57 ok, so 04:03:13 I needed an equalp hashtable, but with string case sensitivity 04:03:24 Good morning everyone! 04:04:06 redefining equalp seems to work nicely. I presume that calculating the hash works the same way, but the new equalp resolves any collisions in the way we want 04:04:06 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: nighty night] 04:04:25 Phoodus: Why do you need it to be equalp? 04:04:35 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.86.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:04:42 to deeply compare through non-eq structure instances 04:06:14 Redefining equalp is illegal. 04:06:22 Phoodus: 1. The standard doesn't allow redefinition of equalp. 04:06:52 2. It probably won't work in general. 04:06:56 I needed a non-standard equalp for the hashtable 04:07:11 yeah, this is with sb-ext:without-package-locks 04:07:13 Phoodus: "non-standard equalp" doesn't make sense. 04:07:15 No. That's your presumed solution -- not what you need. 04:07:50 Phoodus: Either it is equalp, and it behaves like that, or it isn't. 04:07:56 hashtable only knows equalp et al, is there any other way to provide other hashing functions & collision comparators? 04:08:25 What actual problem are you trying to solve? 04:09:01 having a hashtable whose complex keys include non-eq structures whose slots might be equal, and case-sensitive strings 04:09:15 That's not a problem. 04:09:22 What actual problem are you trying to solve? 04:09:45 we're caching results of calls 04:10:07 and the cache keys have these requirements 04:10:23 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:10:24 And what is the form of these results? 04:10:43 the values in the hashtable? 04:10:51 or the keys? 04:10:54 No. I mean what is the form of the keys? 04:11:20 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.86.199] has joined #lisp 04:11:40 arbitrarily deeply nested lists containing strings, structures, and other very primitive bits (symbols, numbers, etc) 04:12:36 Why are you caching these results? 04:12:46 What about a pair of hash tables---one for string keys, one for other kinds of keys. 04:12:53 because otherwise, we spend minutes recalculating things 04:13:34 And your calculations depend only on this complex input? 04:13:44 rme: we generally do not have a naked string for a key. The problem is case insensitivity of strings deeply nested inside lists/structures when trying to use an equalp hashtable 04:13:47 It doesn't sound very likely. Why are you trying to memoize at this point? 04:13:50 yes 04:14:40 Why not memoize on the bits of this that you presumably destructure in order to do cacluations with. 04:14:46 this is a functional system we're writing, and it's a common entry point 04:15:16 they're free-form and recursively processed. that's kind of tough 04:15:40 so there's no real benefit to only cache the leaves and still work to infer everythign back together for the composite result 04:15:57 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:16:30 It sounds like you should be interning. 04:16:45 how do you intern a struct? 04:17:02 Just like you intern a symbol -- you make a canonical version. 04:17:27 basically flyweight every single combination ever perceived in the working of the system? 04:18:07 Well, it would make your memoization much faster. 04:18:18 we looked at what it would take to flyweight cons cells themselves and keep their identity across the distributed system. It really explodes, and keeping identity at a lower granularity really becomes more feasible 04:19:00 You don't need to keep their identities across distributed systems. 04:19:23 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-109-81.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 04:19:41 value identities, as in (cons 1 2) would be flyweight everywhere to a eq-able canonical cell 04:19:46 gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-24-219-89.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:21:01 Not across a distributed system. 04:21:20 -!- az [~az@p5796C2D2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:21:29 I mean, if it received (1 . 2) and (1 . 2) off the wire, both instances would be eq 04:21:36 due to the flyweighting system 04:22:13 and if each of those had a numeric identifier or gensym or something, then yeah you wouldn't need to have composite hashtable keys because each identifier pointed to a single immutable composite structure 04:22:15 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 04:22:37 but that 1) isn't what we have, and 2) is not desirable for a large, fast-changing system 04:22:59 Neither is memoizing large structures. :) 04:23:01 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 04:23:43 they're memoized in this case for short periods (a cache), and the number of memoized items is drastically reduced (in the thousands) 04:23:49 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 04:24:23 whereas fine-grained flyweighting would only be beneficial if those remained as shared building blocks over a longer period of time 04:24:46 Maybe you could convert your arglists to strings? Format them just the way you like it. Use that as keys. 04:24:48 Well, a stupid but simple solution would be to print the keys. 04:25:03 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:25:28 :) 04:25:29 right, we've done that on some "other language" clients to keep things simple in certain cases 04:26:16 but you really don't stringify inside tight inner server loops that are so busy that we need a cache ;) 04:26:51 in any case, the simple lisp-level issue we hit is the inability to configure the hashtable's collision resolution function 04:27:05 unless there was some other feature we missed 04:28:08 some implementations support unstandard custom hashtable equal functions; there also are custom hash table libraries which support custom hash and compare functions 04:28:12 az [~az@p5796C5D8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:28:41 of course their performance might also vary 04:29:15 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:29:20 stringify incrementally 04:29:22 yeah, we're building our own functional version which is tailored to our mvcc model 04:29:51 but the currently deployed version is slightly older than that 04:30:24 lusory [~bart@bb219-74-90-12.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 04:31:23 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 04:31:59 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:35:35 tama [~tama@ip65-46-142-190.z142-46-65.customer.algx.net] has joined #lisp 04:36:26 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-153-195.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:38:34 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.35] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:38:51 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-77-16.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:39:34 _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has joined #lisp 04:39:41 -!- TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@124-171-90-146.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:39:42 -!- Borbus [borbus@borbus.kicks-ass.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:45:48 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:46:23 -!- Salamander__ is now known as Salamander 04:46:39 Borbus [borbus@borbus.kicks-ass.net] has joined #lisp 04:52:28 -!- stettber` [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:55:41 stettber` [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has joined #lisp 04:56:46 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:58:51 -!- stettber` [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:02:01 stettber` [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has joined #lisp 05:03:40 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:05:11 -!- stettber` [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:08:11 ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 05:08:22 stettber` [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has joined #lisp 05:09:50 good morning 05:11:35 -!- stettber` [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:11:42 -!- Jubb [~ghost@24-151-24-155.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Jubb] 05:13:20 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-72-75-100-166.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:14:37 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:17:44 _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has joined #lisp 05:19:06 Hello ost. 05:24:33 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-109-81.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:24:40 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 05:25:33 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-109-81.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 05:28:30 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-109-81.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 05:31:27 -!- moxiemk1 [~moxiemk1@67.143.83.128] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:36:26 fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 05:42:14 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:46:25 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@61.99.46.4] has joined #lisp 05:47:39 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-109-81.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 05:53:08 -!- rff [~rff@ip72-207-243-174.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:55:16 jhuni [~jhuni@udp217774uds.hawaiiantel.net] has joined #lisp 06:00:35 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.173.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:00:56 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.173.214] has joined #lisp 06:01:44 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-93-10.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 06:04:19 -!- yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:06:13 yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:11:57 churib [~tg@dslc-082-082-126-031.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 06:18:13 Neurotron [~Ian@124.155.195.7] has joined #lisp 06:18:32 -!- rme [rme@clozure-775227D1.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 06:18:32 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-106-138-18.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 06:18:57 Anyone know of an internet spider written in Lisp? 06:20:42 -!- Neurotron [~Ian@124.155.195.7] has left #lisp 06:22:07 I know of a search engine kind of thing written in clojure 06:22:35 -!- entrosca [~entrosca@ip98-167-231-101.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:22:41 Neuroneutron [~Neuroneut@124.155.195.7] has joined #lisp 06:23:17 Neuroneutron: http://www.cl-http.org:8000/cl-http/w4/w4.html 06:23:34 ost: Thanks. 06:24:00 heh, 1996 (: 06:24:20 Wonder if it works? 06:24:43 it might, but you probably won't beat google with it unmodified (-; 06:25:32 Google's in Python, right? 06:25:44 I don't think their crawlers are, no 06:25:52 I think a friend of mine wrote a crawler in lisp, when he was working at that (now defunct) patent search startup 06:26:38 I'm wondering if there are any business opportunities in writing crawlers. 06:27:02 there are still other search engines around 06:27:10 some of them are really pretty good, actually 06:27:14 (duckduckgo, others) 06:27:25 still seems to be a good thing to pursue 06:27:37 Maybe. 06:27:56 I'll check out the 1996 one that ost suggested. 06:28:49 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has left #lisp 06:30:57 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 06:33:11 Crawlers are all about time management. 06:33:38 Apart from that you might as well use wget. 06:35:51 mrSpec [~Spec@89.75.35.251] has joined #lisp 06:35:51 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89.75.35.251] has quit [Changing host] 06:35:51 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:36:24 Yeah, you're quite right. 06:36:27 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-0-111.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:38:16 gko [~user@114-136-143-196.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 06:40:54 gonzojive_ [~red@adsl-75-7-8-136.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:42:47 -!- gko [~user@114-136-143-196.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:44:57 -!- katesmith is now known as crazy-kate 06:45:06 gko [~user@114-136-143-196.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 06:47:50 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.66.207.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:48:01 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:48:49 cmm [~cmm@109.66.207.56] has joined #lisp 06:50:01 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-93-10.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:52:01 -!- crazy-kate [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:52:35 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-77-16.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:53:10 katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-209-215.dhcp.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 06:53:10 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-209-215.dhcp.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 06:53:10 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 06:53:31 I love that I just wrote an 18-argument function, and I'd still consider it manageable. I guess that's not much, considering drakma:http-request is only a layer or two below. 06:53:40 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-242-100.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 06:53:44 -!- katesmith is now known as sane-kate 06:58:16 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-kayfoztxnmvflarw] has joined #lisp 06:59:38 -!- gko [~user@114-136-143-196.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:00:41 sykopomp: how many of them are positional? (: 07:00:53 Three! 07:01:23 well (: 07:01:35 so it's more like a 3-argument function with 15 customization hooks (-: 07:01:52 pff. 18 arguments, I say. 07:01:55 (-: 07:02:31 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 07:04:45 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 07:05:14 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 07:07:01 abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 07:07:29 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@61.99.46.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:07:30 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-158-125.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:07:34 -!- sane-kate [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:07:57 katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-209-215.dhcp.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 07:07:57 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-209-215.dhcp.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 07:07:57 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 07:08:04 Neuroneutron_ [~Neuroneut@bb219-74-51-38.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 07:09:04 fred-o [~user@c-cce070d5.017-8-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 07:10:15 -!- Neuroneutron [~Neuroneut@124.155.195.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:10:15 -!- Neuroneutron_ is now known as Neuroneutron 07:11:44 daniel__ [~daniel@p5082A33B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:12:55 Neuroneutron_ [~Neuroneut@203.116.22.139] has joined #lisp 07:15:02 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082AB6E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:15:10 dberg [~user@c-98-234-179-166.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:16:09 flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has joined #lisp 07:16:09 -!- flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has quit [Changing host] 07:16:09 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 07:16:19 -!- Neuroneutron [~Neuroneut@bb219-74-51-38.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:16:20 -!- Neuroneutron_ is now known as Neuroneutron 07:17:21 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 07:23:31 -!- antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:26:40 -!- Neuroneutron [~Neuroneut@203.116.22.139] has quit [Quit: Neuroneutron] 07:33:31 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-19-101.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:34:01 Neuroneutron [~Neuroneut@124.155.195.6] has joined #lisp 07:34:23 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 07:42:57 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-158-125.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: I'm big in Japan] 07:44:28 xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-235-146.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:45:11 -!- katofiad|zzz is now known as katofiad 07:46:31 -!- Neuroneutron [~Neuroneut@124.155.195.6] has quit [Quit: Neuroneutron] 07:50:36 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 07:54:16 dfox_ [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-66.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 07:55:59 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@77.19.72.17.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 07:56:06 Neuroneutron [~Neuroneut@bb219-74-51-38.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 07:56:08 -!- Neuroneutron [~Neuroneut@bb219-74-51-38.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Client Quit] 07:59:00 Neuroneutron [~Neuroneut@bb219-74-51-38.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 08:00:28 phao [~phao@189.107.130.230] has joined #lisp 08:00:33 does common lisp support pointers? 08:00:38 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 08:01:01 why do you mean by pointers? 08:01:24 xan_ [~xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 08:01:27 I mean like in C, memory addresses 08:01:41 allocating memory, stuff like that 08:01:47 then no 08:02:02 but you can get it in your implementation 08:02:07 stassats, right 08:02:19 is there any thing related to pointers that it supports? 08:02:20 -!- daniel__ is now known as daniel 08:02:27 I mean, you asked 'what do you mean by pointers?' 08:02:34 I kinda thought that it may be soemthing in it 08:02:48 snorble_ [~snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 08:03:00 well, you can make pointers to other objects 08:03:29 Are you looking for something that is kinda like a reference to a particular place? For example, have an object that you can SETF that happens to refer to a particular index in a vector? 08:03:35 well, CFFI supports pointer into foreign C libraries, but AFAIK you can't make them point to lisp objects 08:03:50 -!- Neuroneutron [~Neuroneut@bb219-74-51-38.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:04:14 so.. (let ((ref (refer (elt my-list 0)))) (setf (deref ref) 1))? 08:04:29 so, without pointers, memory management, how do you do things? I mean... I'm only familiar with C, so i'm not sure how things are done without pointers 08:04:32 phao: In C a pointer is an index into a vector of objects. 08:04:41 phao: Is this what you are talking about? 08:04:58 phao: that's a strange question 08:05:06 phao: We don't worry about memory. We have a program which is smarter and more efficient than us taking care of that. :) 08:05:06 stassats, is it? 08:05:13 hmm 08:05:28 Well, the first problem is to work out what phao means :) 08:05:41 Zhivago, yes, I was talking about C pointers. 08:05:57 phao: So, you want indexes into vectors of objects? 08:06:54 sorry, what do you mean by 'index INTO a vector of objects'? 08:07:22 Well, that's what it is. char *p = malloc(10); p points into a vector of ten chars, at the object in position 0. 08:07:26 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.235.211] has joined #lisp 08:07:51 Zhivago, I mean, english-wise 08:07:59 I'm brazilian... I don't know very well what 'into' means 08:08:04 not in that sentence. 08:08:14 I think what is meant that there are no references - all arguments are passed by copy. 08:09:07 but the copy is only the top-level - if you pass a "list", you actually pass the first CONS cell address - so you can change the data of the list, but not prepend elements (for the caller). 08:09:23 phao: (cons vector index) <- this might be a way to represent an index into a vector. 08:09:24 phao: are you learning lisp? 08:09:40 because it's a bad idea to compare it to C while learning 08:09:44 stassats, I'm going to, soon. 08:09:47 phao: You would then use (aref vector index) to get the value at that position. 08:09:59 a number is "normally" immutable, ie. doing (defun A (nr) (setf nr 2)) isn't visible to the caller. 08:10:12 Neuroneutron [~Neuroneut@bb219-74-51-38.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 08:10:27 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-93-10.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 08:10:27 flip214: but your example has nothing to do with the number 08:10:30 stassats, I'm familiar with scheme 08:10:38 flip214: it would be the same with, say, a list 08:11:24 Zhivago, yeah 08:11:27 makes sense 08:11:31 but if he passes a list and does a (setf (car list) 33) the caller sees different data 08:11:48 phao: so, when you'll learn Common Lisp better you will understand "how we do it" 08:11:49 Zhivago, but how you'd get that vector created? 08:12:03 phao: In lisp, you'd use make-array, probably. 08:12:22 phao: To be C like you'd pretend that individual objects are vectors of length 1. 08:12:29 tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:12:38 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:12:41 Neuroneutron_ [~Neuroneut@203.116.22.139] has joined #lisp 08:12:51 phao: So (cons my-struct 0) would fit there, and you'd check the class of the 'vector'. 08:13:05 phao: That's sufficient to implement C pointers in lisp. 08:13:36 the class of the 'vector'? 08:13:56 Sure -- in the case of a real vector, it would have a vector class -- otherwise something else. 08:14:10 Although it might get a little hairy with pointers to arrays. 08:14:17 Why do you want C pointers again? 08:14:39 I've heard that lisp doesn't have pointers, and I started wondering how things are done without them 08:14:40 -!- Neuroneutron [~Neuroneut@bb219-74-51-38.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:14:41 -!- Neuroneutron_ is now known as Neuroneutron 08:14:54 I don't know how to do things without pointers... like variable lengh strings 08:15:00 length 08:15:22 Um, well, in lisp arrays can have their lengths changed. 08:15:31 But normally you'd just make a new one of the right length ... 08:15:39 So you don't need pointers for that. 08:16:19 Lisp is also more functional ... so you don't change things passed down, but instead return the new data 08:16:23 hmm, is that a pattern? I mean, something that you'd do in C, you'd have a specific solution to do it without pointers in lisp? 08:16:29 ops 08:16:33 also, every reference is essentially a form of a pointer 08:16:34 hmm, is that a pattern? I mean, something that you'd do in C using pointers, you'd have a specific solution to do it without pointers in lisp? 08:17:14 flip214, yeah... I saw that happening a lot in scheme when I was reading sicp 08:17:29 Well, I think that's too simple ... Lisp has a lot of higher-level stuff like closures and similar, which are very helpful 08:18:41 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-39-168.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:19:09 flip214: lisp doesn't tell me what to do, i modify data when i need, or return a copy when i want to 08:20:11 -!- churib [~tg@dslc-082-082-126-031.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:20:13 Jabberwockey [~jgrabarsk@selene.ftk.de] has joined #lisp 08:20:15 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 08:22:38 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-98-37.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:22:38 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 08:22:48 has anyone bought land of lisp? 08:22:53 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@211.101.128.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:23:25 phao: i never question myself "how do i do it without pointers?", so that's why your question is strange to me 08:23:42 stassats, yeah 08:24:06 I'm not familiar with lisp.. and the only experience I have with scheme is from SICP... so I never actually tried to do anything big or useful in lisp 08:24:17 that'd require pointers 08:24:47 phao: you can treat every reference in Lisp as a non-modifiable pointer, if you want 08:25:00 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:25:27 craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 08:26:06 phao: the answers to your questions will only confuse you right now, so learn lisp first and the answers will become self-evident 08:26:47 -!- trigen [~MSX@ec2-46-51-179-218.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has left #lisp 08:26:49 trigen [~MSX@ec2-46-51-179-218.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 08:27:02 -!- Joreji [~thomas@67-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:27:38 splittist [~John@40-143.203-62.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 08:27:40 morning 08:27:51 Hun [~Hun@80.81.19.29] has joined #lisp 08:28:34 phao: Lisp supports closures which allow for deferred operations that would otherwise be done with pointers. 08:29:48 phao: e.g., I pass you p in C, and you say *p = 10. In lisp you could use (lambda (v) (setf (aref a i) v)) and pass that to you as p, and you could (funcall p 10) it 08:29:59 But that's also a bit weird -- there are usually easier ways. 08:30:20 just a moment... 08:30:27 is setf in lisp like set! in scheme:? 08:30:36 no 08:30:37 no 08:30:49 SETF is more general. 08:30:56 right 08:31:03 Common Lisp has a concept of "places", which extends beyond simply variables. 08:31:37 (setf (aref a i) v) => so this would set the i-th element of a to v? 08:31:43 yes. 08:32:05 Zhivago, nice then 08:32:06 It's actually a macro. 08:32:37 It rewrites things into something that looks kinda like ((setf aref) v a i) 08:32:51 where (setf aref) might be the name of the function. 08:33:33 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 08:33:57 pavelludiq [~quassel@83.222.167.92] has joined #lisp 08:35:04 jconrad [~jconrad@host109-152-180-255.range109-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 08:35:55 sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has joined #lisp 08:36:26 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:36:31 antifuchs: How do you actually use the Web Walker? 08:38:31 -!- Neuroneutron [~Neuroneut@203.116.22.139] has left #lisp 08:38:38 Neuroneutron [~Neuroneut@203.116.22.139] has joined #lisp 08:38:43 -!- craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:39:33 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 08:40:31 Zhivago, just to see if I understood it 08:40:44 to mimic *p = 10 08:40:59 that 'i' in (aref a i) would be 0 08:41:01 TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@124-148-35-215.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 08:41:36 stettberger [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has joined #lisp 08:41:43 phao: I think you should work extra hard to not let C idioms get in the way when learning Lisp. 08:41:55 hehehehehehe 08:42:15 It would be good to grab a book and just dig into that. 08:42:21 sykopomp, you made me remember of a speech sussman gave 08:46:29 jdz_ [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 08:46:32 -!- jdz_ [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:50:13 jconrad_ [~jconrad@host109-152-178-222.range109-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 08:51:04 -!- jconrad [~jconrad@host109-152-180-255.range109-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:51:04 -!- jconrad_ is now known as jconrad 08:53:54 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 09:08:28 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@adsl-75-7-8-136.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive_] 09:18:10 ost` [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 09:18:10 -!- ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:19:35 churib [~tg@dslc-082-082-126-031.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:20:23 el_alacran [~luis@cpe-76-94-179-188.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:23:09 I was reading my professor's masters thesis, cuz our school has a copy of it, and she was talking about writing an OS in lisp, would lisp even able to support the functionality required to handle an OS? 09:23:32 it already did 09:23:33 el_alacran: Of course, what made you think not? 09:23:33 el_alacran: what functionality is that? 09:23:43 well i mean, how would lisp handle access control lists 09:23:54 for example 09:24:04 el_alacran: By storing them in a list? 09:24:10 haha 09:24:13 el_alacran: by writing code to handle it 09:24:15 sorry i guess that was a bad example 09:24:16 that seems an easy part to me; i'd rather worry about interrupt handling 09:24:26 thats a better example 09:24:44 you wrote the code to handle interrupts 09:24:50 s/wrote/write/ 09:25:05 yeah also you get this second hand like output somtimes using lisp i forget the technical term 09:25:13 el_alacran: not everything has to be in Common Lisp; some parts might be written in lispy-assembly 09:25:33 well I mean i didnt imagine she'd use clisp 09:25:38 el_alacran: What jdz says, and that's not specific to Lisp. Most OS code has some assembly code in it. 09:25:58 el_alacran: take a look at http://common-lisp.net/project/movitz/ 09:26:05 how does lisp currently deal with exception handling? 09:26:16 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@77.19.72.17.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:26:16 el_alacran: it has condition system 09:26:49 with restarts! 09:26:58 oh sweet, yeah I mean I've done some programming in clisp and thought it was great, but when i was reading her thesis it just took me as a shock so i wanted to ask around is all 09:26:58 el_alacran: for a real OS written in Lisp see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genera_(operating_system) 09:27:00 el_alacran: www.l1sp.org/cl/9 09:27:20 el_alacran: don't refer to Common Lisp as clisp 09:27:33 el_alacran: CLISP is an implementation of the Common Lisp standard. 09:28:03 I thought they were the same thing 09:28:22 el_alacran: now you know better 09:28:42 also, I wanted to find out, and maybe you guys might now a little bit about this 09:29:14 lisp is a general purpose language, and nothing general purpose is alien to it 09:29:31 I've got some research a professor wants to do with Artificial Neural Systems and i was wondering if there was a version of Lisp that might be good for something like that 09:29:44 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 09:30:18 hmm 09:30:20 thanks 09:30:49 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-116-137.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 09:31:20 stassats spiaggia jdz you've been a great help =] 09:31:23 -!- el_alacran [~luis@cpe-76-94-179-188.socal.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 09:31:31 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:36:54 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu183.queens.ox.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 09:37:38 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:37:54 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 09:40:23 Joreji [~thomas@93-236.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined 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stokachu koollman nowhere_man setheus Guest96643 antifuchs pr Quadrescence angavrilov [df] lispmeister rdd whee frodef` shachaf beach gonzojive reb zeroish eldragon sigjuice Lycurgus knobo sykopomp bzzbzz fmu pierrep fe[nl]ix Zhivago boysetsfrog ejohnson hugod theBlackDragon ve pchrist SCVirus CrazyEddy rotty guaqua Xantoz OliverUv dostoyevsky tic Fade lnostdal cataska_ 15:30:29 -!- names: Buganini Draggor svk_ djinni` euphidime kleppari chemuduguntar srcerer Adamant rokstar rootzlevel emma sonnym prip jsnikeris Ralith tritchey ddv vandemar rapacity mega1 hlavaty egn ramus Intensity aoh ace4016 rtoym BrianRice rpg borkamaniac hdurer__ borism Tristam antoszka clog xristos azuk 15:31:51 -!- ehu changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: ABCL 0.23.0, SBCL 1.0.44, Bordeaux-Threads 0.8.0, CMUCL 20b, SBCL User Survey http://random-state.net/sbcl-survey-2010.html [have you considered /mode #lisp +t] 15:33:16 *felipe* rolls his eyes 15:35:17 *splittist* waits for the abcl project page to update 15:36:41 dfox_ [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-66.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 15:36:45 carlocci [~nes@93.37.198.57] has joined #lisp 15:38:03 splittist: done. 15:39:31 -!- tama [~tama@ip65-46-142-190.z142-46-65.customer.algx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:40:54 *osoleve* is away: Gone away for now 15:40:59 ehu: great (: 15:41:42 TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@124-148-48-58.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 15:41:52 *ehu* hates the cliki page for ABCL every time he sees it 15:47:28 -!- fmu_ [u89@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-blqgxassysloqfry] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:47:35 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:49:07 fmu_ [u89@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-azpnsjgubrqnjlmz] has joined #lisp 15:49:18 netytan [~netytan@host81-141-55-238.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 15:51:04 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:45 -!- kanru [~kanru@114-45-232-142.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:52:10 cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.106.152] has joined #lisp 15:52:14 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:52:20 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:53:28 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:53:34 LiamH [~nobody@pool-72-75-100-166.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:53:36 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:55:36 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 15:55:41 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:56:59 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.106.152] has quit [Client Quit] 15:59:17 -!- jconrad [~jconrad@host109-152-177-110.range109-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:00:28 -!- lharc [~shrek@88.131.67.194] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:00:53 -!- LiamH [~nobody@pool-72-75-100-166.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:01:06 jeti [~user@p548EABA5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:03:05 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@61.99.46.4] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:05:25 dberg [~user@c-98-234-179-166.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:06:53 tama [~tama@2001:0:53aa:64c:3472:1d9a:9cbb:3cdb] has joined #lisp 16:07:29 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 16:07:47 p_l|uni [~pl@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 16:09:35 i just know took a look at the online sbcl manual. wow, i've missed out on tons of things (sb-grovel,concurrency,mailbox, aclrepl, etc). very cool. but how does sb-grovel stack up against swing for generating ffi definitions? 16:09:50 -!- Jabberwockey [~jgrabarsk@selene.ftk.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:09:57 ASau [~user@95-28-62-161.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 16:10:35 *osoleve* is back. 16:12:01 -!- osoleve [~sabayonus@adsl-074-166-228-237.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:13:01 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 16:13:40 hypno: (i can't help you, but) do you mean swig? 16:14:55 pmd: ah, yes, sorry. swig. 16:15:17 hypno: last time i saw, swig said it could grovel c++, but creating a cffi interface on top of c wrappers 16:15:23 i never actually tried it 16:15:30 osoleve [~sabayonus@adsl-074-166-228-237.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:15:44 -!- abugosh [~Adium@64-121-86-146.c3-0.tlg-ubr2.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:17:02 pmd: ok. well, i have tryied it for C headers. i was quite surprised actually by how well it turned out. :) 16:17:09 hypno: you mean "swig" ? 16:17:51 fe[nl]ix: yes. (pmd asked the same thing.) 16:18:47 hypno: swig doesn't work with system and kernel headers 16:19:05 -!- churib [~tg@dslc-082-082-126-031.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:19:05 which on Linux and BSDs use lots of extensions to ANSI C 16:19:44 -!- splittist [~John@40-143.203-62.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.1] 16:20:11 zomgbie [~jesus@dns1.wedl.at] has joined #lisp 16:20:18 fe[nl]ix: ah! i see. so sb-grovel basically covers an ever wider ffi-space than swig then. awesome. 16:20:45 petercoulton [~petercoul@152.105.48.248] has joined #lisp 16:23:02 -!- Hun [~Hun@80.81.19.29] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:32:51 plage [~user@laptop-147-210-129-138.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 16:33:51 bgs100_ [~ian@h106.36.186.173.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 16:33:58 katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-209-215.dhcp.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 16:33:58 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-209-215.dhcp.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 16:33:58 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 16:34:08 I have a file of strings, one per line, many are duplicates. I need to sort these strings according to how often they occur. Is 16:34:22 there an easy way to do this? 16:34:39 sort file | uniq -c | sort -rn 16:36:05 plage, thanks. 16:36:12 No problem. 16:36:23 -!- bgs100_ [~ian@h106.36.186.173.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:36:41 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 16:41:21 giant_g2 [~g@pool-71-162-32-225.altnpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:19 loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.179] has joined #lisp 16:43:50 -!- notsonerdysunny [~chatzilla@59.92.195.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:45:27 Any computer science professionals here? 16:45:31 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.56.103] has joined #lisp 16:45:32 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:45:40 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:46:06 giant_g2: I suggest you state your problem. You'll find out if any of them would be interested in answering. 16:46:46 I need to interview a computer science professional for a school report due on Tuesday 16:47:18 Anybody interested? 16:47:22 giant_g2: define "computer science professional"! 16:48:13 Anybody who works in a computer science field, such as IT, Database, Software engineering, COSC professor, etc 16:48:55 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-106-138-18.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 16:49:34 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@152.105.48.248] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:51:57 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 16:52:42 -!- ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 16:53:58 ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has joined #lisp 16:56:20 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:58:02 And we could interview an IRC trolling professional. You interested? 16:58:23 calling IT a science, gross! 16:58:55 calling computer science a science, also gross! 17:00:12 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 17:00:45 *p_l|uni* grabs his wizard's outfit 17:03:31 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:04:43 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:04:54 good evening 17:05:01 hey mvilleneuve :) 17:05:10 -!- giant_g2 [~g@pool-71-162-32-225.altnpa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:06:34 sellout [~greg@71.175.25.141] has joined #lisp 17:07:16 -!- skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:07:50 urandom__ [~user@p548A4638.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:59 -!- netytan [~netytan@host81-141-55-238.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Quit: netytan] 17:10:15 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-kayfoztxnmvflarw] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:10:19 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:12:42 plage: already done with the meeting? :) 17:12:51 Nah, in it right now! 17:12:53 :) 17:12:56 blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:01 if I pass '_id to a function instead of '|_id|, in the function it'll be _ID - is there any way for me to get back to '_id within the function without actually passing in '|_id| ? 17:13:14 Or is that information lost by the time the argument gets to the function? 17:13:17 -!- phao [~phao@189.107.130.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:13:26 The latter. 17:13:30 Damnit :P 17:13:34 seangrove: It's the reader that does it. 17:14:04 seangrove: You can set the reader case to :preserve 17:14:12 (but that will create other problems) 17:14:19 What a bummer... 17:14:21 Owell, thanks 17:14:26 Good to know at least 17:15:44 netytan [~netytan@host81-141-55-238.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 17:18:12 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 17:19:23 -!- tfb [~tfb@92.40.38.199.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:20:43 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 17:24:30 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@dns1.wedl.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:24:37 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-116-137.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:24:38 zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has joined #lisp 17:25:37 -!- SV_Nik [~ngkhatu@99-89-3-67.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 17:25:49 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:26:17 SV_Nik [~ngkhatu@99-89-3-67.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:28:09 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-67-38.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:31:46 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host28-179-dynamic.16-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:32:01 Bronsa [~bronsa@host28-179-dynamic.16-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:32:06 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 17:34:11 tfb [~tfb@92.40.38.199.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:34:54 phao [~phao@189.107.137.239] has joined #lisp 17:36:41 tcleval [~funnyguy@186.213.10.234] has joined #lisp 17:37:37 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755695.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:52 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:40:09 -!- jsnikeris [~user@pool-98-114-175-66.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:40:34 jsnikeris [~user@pool-98-114-175-66.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:41:34 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 17:41:38 -!- tfb [~tfb@92.40.38.199.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:46:07 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:50:52 -!- edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: edlinde] 17:51:19 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.23.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:51:40 hoeppner [~chatzilla@c-174-56-155-184.hsd1.sc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:51:59 -!- hoeppner [~chatzilla@c-174-56-155-184.hsd1.sc.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:52:20 hoeppner [~chatzilla@c-174-56-155-184.hsd1.sc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:52:55 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.23.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:01 -!- blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:02:21 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: sbahra] 18:02:26 zomgbie [~jesus@212095007046.public.telering.at] has joined #lisp 18:06:48 sadeness [~zebadaia@74.198.8.60] has joined #lisp 18:10:17 edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 18:10:30 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@212095007046.public.telering.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:10:36 -!- plage [~user@laptop-147-210-129-138.labri.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:11:39 -!- lanthan_afh [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 18:14:16 -!- rff [~rff@ip72-207-243-174.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:17:47 -!- murilasso [~murilasso@189.103.20.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:18:50 lovesan [~lovesan@188.122.231.139] has joined #lisp 18:18:53 So OO languages have UML to show logic flow/relations(well simplified versions). What do you use for functional programming to show the logic flow you're using quickly/graphically. 18:19:20 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:19:34 murilasso [~murilasso@189.103.20.140] has joined #lisp 18:20:27 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.32] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:21:24 hoeppner: i use the language 18:22:57 Even for larger programs? 18:22:58 although i don't programming functionally, but functional programming per se is off-topic here 18:23:17 -!- MagBo [~Sweater@195.114.56.71] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:23:42 i don't see why you can't use UML for functional languages 18:23:49 maybe not ALL UML diagrams 18:23:58 a better place to ask might be #haskell 18:24:01 -!- loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.179] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:24:02 because UML is horrible? 18:24:05 hoeppner: UML can be used for that as well, if you follow the "documentation only, no code mapping" idea 18:24:15 wvdschel [~wim@d51A4ACD3.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 18:24:15 -!- wvdschel [~wim@d51A4ACD3.access.telenet.be] has quit [Changing host] 18:24:15 wvdschel [~wim@unaffiliated/yukito] has joined #lisp 18:24:28 mapping UML constructs directly to code is known to produce horrible results 18:24:44 -!- jeti [~user@p548EABA5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:24:45 -!- wvdschel [~wim@unaffiliated/yukito] has quit [Client Quit] 18:24:59 i'm not really a fan of hardcore UML, but some of the diagrams are useful for understanding how a system works at a higher level than code 18:25:26 *p_l|uni* sees use for the interaction/flow kind of UML 18:25:40 the class subset... I think I'll keep to ER diagrams :) 18:26:10 Well formal UML is horrible. But using it casually to show everything on one page is nice. I was wondering if there were any nifty ways to understand a larger functional program, well more on topic a lisp program 18:26:19 necroforest: I like writing prose for that, actually. 18:26:42 i use class diagrams and sequence diagrams a lot, but i don't make them very detailed 18:27:20 Heh formal UML is harder than programming :D 18:27:36 yeah, i think it's a waste of tiem 18:27:40 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 18:27:42 hoeppner: I think good old diagrams can represent FP just well enough, you might also look into some of the map/reduce related stuff 18:28:27 I believe I had seen something like that done for OpenMP as well 18:29:53 hoeppner: http://dkeenan.com/Lambda/ http://thyer.name/lambda-animator/ 18:30:26 thanks, if anyone else can think of anyone just ping me. 18:33:14 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:37:48 -!- edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: edlinde] 18:37:53 -!- dfox_ [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-66.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:40:47 jconrad [~jconrad@host86-147-40-241.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:41:55 -!- phao [~phao@189.107.137.239] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:42:56 -!- jconrad [~jconrad@host86-147-40-241.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has left #lisp 18:43:26 Arelius [42da3765@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.218.55.101] has joined #lisp 18:43:27 jconrad [~jconrad@host86-147-40-241.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:43:42 Is anyone else having trouble using clbuild to clone cl-base64? 18:46:14 b9.com git having trouble again? 18:46:37 yes 18:46:49 :/ 18:47:05 p_l|uni [~pl@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 18:47:18 bsod1 [~osa1@188.56.215.228] has joined #lisp 18:47:19 seems fine from here. 18:47:35 Arelius: you could use git://common-lisp.net/projects/mirror/cl-base64.git 18:48:04 in any case, do you need a version from git, or is the version from quicklisp good enough for you? 18:48:17 i.e. use "clbuild quickload cl-base64" instead of "clbuild install-from-upsteam cl-base64" 18:48:35 I could give that a try 18:49:34 -!- hlavaty [~user@95-88-27-48-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:57:25 edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 18:57:47 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.173.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:58:26 -!- GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-84-85.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:58:31 enn [~eli@codeanddata.com] has joined #lisp 18:59:46 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.155.227] has joined #lisp 19:00:26 Hello ... can anyone suggest an approach to take to prevent a given argument from being displayed in backtraces (and the logs they are written to)? I am trying to prevent passwords from ending up in our logs, but I would like to be able to keep logging backtraces generally. 19:00:59 what function are you using to print stacktraces? 19:01:08 don't store plaintext passwords? 19:01:22 we don't store plaintext passwords. We send them off to an LDAP server. 19:01:37 lichtblau: SB-DEBUG:BACKTRACE 19:02:37 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.86.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:02:54 compile with debug 0? 19:04:06 the idea is to retain the utility of backtraces (and arguments displayed in them) in general 19:04:32 Good evening everyone! 19:04:52 Maybe storing password in class would help. 19:05:29 I'm not entirely certain this is the only option, but I think you need to copy&paste from SBCL's print-frame-call function and tweak it yourself. 19:06:05 The code in http://jsnell.iki.fi/blog/archive/2007-12-19-pretty-sbcl-backtraces.html gives pretty output and could be useful as an example you could further enhance or strip down. 19:06:31 fe[nl]ix: Thanks! the mirror worked! 19:06:36 lichtblau: Thank you, that looks very promising. 19:06:51 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-66-233.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:07:29 shortest possible version would be roughly like (sb-debug::map-backtrace (lambda (frame) (print (sb-debug::frame-call frame))) :count most-positive-fixnum) or so 19:09:35 I've often seen Lisps error out while trying to grab and print weird arguments from the stack. Personally I see reliability and speed as a main reason not to print arguments in my server's main error handler by default. 19:10:36 How about cl-yacc? 19:11:01 yes, I can certainly see the argument for not doing so 19:13:25 Arelius: both "install-from-upstream cl-yacc" and "quickload yacc" work for me just fine 19:14:13 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:15:46 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@61.99.46.4] has joined #lisp 19:15:52 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@61.99.46.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:16:19 Anyone have a mirror of the cl-yacc darcs repo? 19:16:48 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.56.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:16:58 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:17:04 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.56.103] has joined #lisp 19:17:10 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-67-38.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:17:15 daedra [~simon@unaffiliated/daedra] has joined #lisp 19:20:08 zomgbie [~jesus@212095007116.public.telering.at] has joined #lisp 19:20:43 Arelius: http://common-lisp.net/~sionescu/darcs/cl-yacc/ 19:20:51 what editor (with a shallow learning curve) should I use that supports syntax highlighting, bracket highlighting, indenting and other nice lispy features? 19:21:09 -!- Arelius [42da3765@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.218.55.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:21:13 emacs if you don't try to understand everything. 19:21:17 I use vim, but my friend will _not_ want to use this to code something up quickly 19:21:24 daedra: You don't want to highlight the parenthesis. You want to make them go away. 19:22:09 daedra: Most people here would probably recommend Emacs + SLIME. 19:22:15 daedra: if you're on OSX, CCL's IDE, on all platforms there are the interfaces of various commercial lisps, and there's that plugin for Eclipse 19:23:00 ok 19:23:10 cusp or whatever it's called 19:23:31 in terms of use, I think I like Emacs+SLIME the best, though it lacks (or at least, it's not exported well enough for me to notice) certain functionality, like the class/package browsers, pathname translation dialogs etc. 19:24:06 well my friend won't be using those features for a while (and neither will I really_) 19:24:24 It's fun and easy to use when you're starting. 19:24:32 It can be terribly annoying to set up though. 19:25:11 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.88.215] has joined #lisp 19:26:01 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:29:44 -!- yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:31:10 yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:31:47 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host28-179-dynamic.16-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:31:55 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 19:32:01 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 19:34:01 ok thanks 19:34:06 -!- daedra [~simon@unaffiliated/daedra] has left #lisp 19:34:50 -!- enn [~eli@codeanddata.com] has left #lisp 19:35:07 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.66.207.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:35:53 cmm [~cmm@109.66.207.56] has joined #lisp 19:38:36 jomat [~jomat@2001:470:9935::badc:ab1e] has joined #lisp 19:38:49 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 19:41:27 -!- jomat is now known as jomatv6 19:43:29 Am I right to think that implementors of CL have the right to implement the `writer' part of an accessor either as a setf expander or as a function named (setf mumble)? Do you happen to know what part of the CLHS says anything about that? 19:44:52 beach: for structures? you're right. 19:45:02 No, not for structures. 19:45:07 beach: which accessors are you referring to ? 19:45:15 For things like (cadr x). 19:46:39 -!- jsnikeris [~user@pool-98-114-175-66.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:47:51 beach: pretty sure, but I can't find anything explicit. 19:48:20 " In general, the exact macro expansion of a setf form is not guaranteed and can even be implementation-dependent; "? 19:48:37 pkhuong_: Sure. 19:48:48 pkhuong_: OK, so that means that you can't be sure about the result of (fdefinition '(setf cadr)) because in one implementation it could be a function and in another one not? 19:49:20 right. 19:49:46 jsnikeris [~user@pool-98-114-175-66.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:49:47 in fact, the CLHS's example for (setf car) expands to rplaca, IIRC. 19:50:31 -!- tcleval [~funnyguy@186.213.10.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:50:48 pkhuong_: And as far as DOCUMENTATION is concerned, it should be accessible through (document 'mumble 'setf)? 19:51:16 -!- dberg [~user@c-98-234-179-166.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 19:52:51 no clue. 19:53:05 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@212095007116.public.telering.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:54:39 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.56.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:54:56 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.56.103] has joined #lisp 19:55:19 -!- jsnikeris [~user@pool-98-114-175-66.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:56:03 jsnikeris [~user@pool-98-114-175-66.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:56:57 AHA! 5.1.1.2 19:58:04 However, the page for DOCUMENTATION is not so good: setf Returns the documentation string of the setf expander whose name is the symbol x. 19:58:30 [which seems to exclude a function named (setf mumble)] 19:59:45 OH NO! "function If x is a function name, returns the documentation string of the function, macro, or special operator whose name is x." 20:00:34 -!- sepi [~sepiultru@hcl-club.lu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:00:40 So to get to the documentation of what (setf (mumble x) y) does, you have to know whether you are dealing with a setf expander or a function. :( 20:01:06 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-218-150.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:02:43 Does this mean that the only thing that is transparent is to define both the function and the setf expander? Can one always be implemented in terms of the other? I suppose the function could always be implemented using the expander, provided that the expander takes precedence (which I think is the case). 20:03:38 right, (setf functions) are only the default case. 20:04:12 Arelius [42da3765@gateway/web/freenode/ip.66.218.55.101] has joined #lisp 20:04:27 Sorry, dropped. Does anyone have a mirror for the cl-yacc darcs repo? 20:05:03 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 20:05:21 ch077179 [~urs@adsl-84-227-63-31.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 20:06:11 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:08:29 Hi I am looking for a "get started with lisp on linux" kind of tutorial, i.e. how to set up emacs, slime and which lisp implementation to choose. the common lisp book on gigamonkey seems to be a bit out of date.. 20:08:47 ch077179: quicklisp.org 20:09:43 http://www.quicklisp.org/beta/ <--- this + install SBCL, either from distro (if it's not Debian) or from binaries on sbcl.org (Debian and other crackpots) 20:09:53 jweiss_ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:09:59 there's also new clbuild, but I haven't yet tested it 20:10:06 Yeah, sbcl is a good choice on linux 20:10:38 p_l|uni: clbuild is having troubles right now. some of the sources for the default sources are down. 20:11:10 for an old guide with clbuild (replace clbuild steps with instructions from beta.quicklisp.org), see common lisp quickstart on http://unya.wordpress.com 20:11:15 doug__ [4439b2f1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.57.178.241] has joined #lisp 20:11:20 Arelius: clbuild or clbuild2? 20:11:31 get current script name? 20:11:39 clbuild, what's clbuild2? 20:11:55 is there (get-current-script-name) or such 20:12:05 O_o 20:12:09 scripts AGAIN? 20:12:14 clbuild2 was afaik a variant of clbuild based around quicklisp 20:12:31 doug__: what do you mean by "current script"? 20:12:35 hmm 20:12:37 -!- jsnikeris [~user@pool-98-114-175-66.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:12:51 i mean the name of some .lisp file if i run it 20:12:53 jsnikeris [~user@pool-98-114-175-66.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:04 It is a well known fact that CL is completely useless for scripts because it doesn't have _main_ and thus you can't create real software with it. 20:13:11 schmrkc: lol 20:13:12 ? 20:13:30 doug__: you are working with a lot of false assumptions, so the answer is tricky 20:13:49 doug__: I guess you could get your lisp implementation to grab argv and poke in that. 20:14:06 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 20:14:10 *args* i guess 20:14:34 first of, there are no "scripts" in CL (you can use it as scripting tool the same as if you called a C utility a "script"), the other is that current executable name functionality is OS-dependant and not covered by ANSI standard 20:14:58 though I believe you can find out certain data about the files 20:14:59 is there a way? 20:15:24 doug__: Check your implementation manual. 20:15:31 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.56.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:15:58 doug__: on Unices, first program argument is the executable name it was called with - check your implementation manual for info how to access it. 20:16:19 Other than that, you can check for path to file currently being LOADed, with *load-truename* 20:16:42 ty p_l|uni didn't think it is that simple 20:17:22 ch077179: quicklisp simplified things a *lot* 20:17:38 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 20:18:39 (format t *load-truename*) errors Must be a string, not #P... 20:18:54 p_l|uni, what should I do about slime and emacs? or do I everytime I want to try out something just run sbcl --load quicklisp.lisp? 20:19:25 beta.quicklisp.org should have some mentions of a SLIME helper, iirc 20:19:32 Arelius: clbuild2 means "the clbuild from git" as opposed to the old "clbuild from darcs" 20:19:50 clbuild from git!?! 20:19:59 LinGmnZ [~LinGmnZ@ppp-61-90-9-96.revip.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 20:19:59 Clearly I've been making a huge mistake! 20:21:07 Where is clbuild from git? and Is it currentlly working well? 20:22:17 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:23:04 aurelien [~Libre@fsf/member/aurelien] has joined #lisp 20:23:05 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-52-243-62.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:06 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-19-101.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:59 the "new" one is only a few weeks old, so I wouldn't call it a huge mistake that you're still on the "old" one... 20:24:08 They aren't that different anyway, except that the new version depends on quicklisp and asdf2. The URL is http://gitorious.org/clbuild2 20:24:33 daedra [~simon@unaffiliated/daedra] has joined #lisp 20:24:42 how do you test to see if a list is empty? 20:24:49 it's (null? L) in scheme 20:25:04 Well, I'll give it a try, since old clbuild is giving me much trouble. 20:25:33 daedra: (null L) in cl. 20:25:41 astalla [~Alessio@dynamic-adsl-94-36-46-145.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 20:25:55 -!- doug__ [4439b2f1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.57.178.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:26:29 daedra: see also consp 20:27:10 clbuild2 in itself won't be able to cure b9 being down, or your personal internet connection having problems with cl-yacc. :-) ...except that it can call out to ql instead. 20:29:20 Which works well enough for me :) 20:29:48 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-78-34-107-139.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:30:11 thanks 20:30:29 Go quickload! 20:31:37 -!- xan_ [~xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:32:15 data_ [4439b2f1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.57.178.241] has joined #lisp 20:32:36 -!- data_ [4439b2f1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.57.178.241] has quit [Client Quit] 20:44:51 fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-165-234.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 20:49:24 -!- jsnikeris [~user@pool-98-114-175-66.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:49:55 jsnikeris [~user@pool-98-114-175-66.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:22 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-107-139.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:52:00 -!- daedra [~simon@unaffiliated/daedra] has left #lisp 20:52:21 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-11-16.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:52:28 -!- jsnikeris [~user@pool-98-114-175-66.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:55:01 jsnikeris [~user@pool-98-114-175-66.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:55:14 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-242-100.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:57:10 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-19-101.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:00:35 -!- jsnikeris [~user@pool-98-114-175-66.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:01:30 jsnikeris [~user@pool-98-114-175-66.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:11 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:02:23 xan_ [~xan@26.Red-88-24-228.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:05:01 -!- stettberger [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:05:07 g4k [~halliburt@pool-96-243-246-18.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:05:14 are there any APL channels? 21:05:27 sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:06:43 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483AB4F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:07:32 jsnikeri` [~user@pool-98-114-175-66.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:07:48 -!- jsnikeris [~user@pool-98-114-175-66.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:08:44 Yuuhi [benni@p5483AB4F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:20 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-0-111.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:09:57 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:13:44 -!- osoleve [~sabayonus@adsl-074-166-228-237.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:14:40 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:16:24 stettberger [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has joined #lisp 21:17:17 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 21:19:23 Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:20:35 -!- xan_ [~xan@26.Red-88-24-228.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:21:30 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 21:22:00 ehu` [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 21:22:52 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:22:52 Euthydemus` [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.23.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 21:23:15 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:23:45 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.23.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:31:48 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.198.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:33:30 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:39:20 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 21:39:55 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-165-234.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:40:00 -!- Quetzalcoatl_ [~godless@cpe-75-186-5-185.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:40:28 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 21:41:33 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-0-111.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:41 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 21:46:41 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:46:54 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 21:47:13 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-0-111.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:48:27 So, trying to figure out how to get slime to work with hunchentoot, problem is, after I do a hunchentoot:start it doesn't return and I can't send anything else to the repl. 21:48:37 everything else just gets pipelined 21:48:51 start it into a new thread 21:49:29 or use a threaded build. 21:49:44 of sbcl? 21:52:17 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:53:45 -!- jweiss_ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:55:22 -!- jsnikeri` [~user@pool-98-114-175-66.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:55:34 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:55:57 -!- ASau [~user@95-28-62-161.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:56:40 Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050064129.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:59:57 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:00:15 francogrex [~user@109.130.151.91] has joined #lisp 22:00:41 got something strange in my experiement 22:02:46 If i make a shared library with ecl-lisp embedded (example http://paste.lisp.org/display/117027) and call the dll using cffi from sbcl it works fine as expected results 22:03:54 but when the cffi is used on the foreign library from ecl, it errs: "Detected access to an invalid or protected memory address...Excessive debugger depth! Probable infinite recursion! 22:04:39 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:07:18 abugosh [~Adium@64-121-86-146.c3-0.tlg-ubr2.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 22:09:37 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:12:21 petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 22:12:24 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 22:13:18 -!- aurelien [~Libre@fsf/member/aurelien] has quit [Quit: be free!] 22:13:53 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-0-111.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:17:26 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 22:17:44 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.56.103] has joined #lisp 22:21:46 -!- Krystof [~csr21@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:22:09 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: sbahra] 22:22:51 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-66-233.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo] 22:23:41 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.151.91] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:24:55 -!- fred-o [~user@c-cce070d5.017-8-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has left #lisp 22:29:20 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.56.215.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:30:40 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-0-111.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:36:37 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:41:43 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 22:44:35 sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:44:41 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:45:55 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483AB4F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:50:11 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.56.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:51:01 -!- stokachu [~user@nat/redhat/x-ouguwezvhmvylbzh] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:51:04 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:51:23 stokachu` [~user@nat/redhat/x-pqmatpralqivpjhk] has joined #lisp 22:52:36 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 22:52:36 -!- ch077179 [~urs@adsl-84-227-63-31.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:54:13 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:33 -!- astalla [~Alessio@dynamic-adsl-94-36-46-145.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 22:57:29 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-0-111.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:57:45 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755695.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:58:13 Yuuhi [benni@p5483AB4F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:59:10 I don't really understand this error http://paste.lisp.org/display/117031 22:59:42 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 22:59:43 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:00:02 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:03:01 -!- ehu` [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:05:22 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-0-111.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:06:17 -!- deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:06:50 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:07:02 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 23:12:16 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 23:14:48 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:17:36 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:19:46 Hum. So I know we're usually not supposed to destructively modify &rest lists, but if I make a fresh list, pass it to a function with APPLY, and then when the call is over I MAP-INTO that list, that would be perfectly safe, right? 23:20:51 I'm making MAPCAR-like functions and I'm guessing reusing the same list should be more efficient than just making a new one for each bunch of elements... 23:21:04 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-67-38.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 23:21:10 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:21:43 -!- hoeppner [~chatzilla@c-174-56-155-184.hsd1.sc.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:22:47 Hexstream: the function might leak structure to that list 23:23:08 It that case I know it won't, of course. 23:23:15 In that case* 23:24:31 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-130-54.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:24:59 How bad that idea is, depends on how general your higher-order function is supposed to be 23:26:29 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:27:38 Very not-general, I guess. 23:27:50 I'm making MAPCAR-like functions for alists and such. 23:28:11 sounds pretty general then, doesn't it? 23:28:26 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 23:28:26 -!- sadeness [~zebadaia@74.198.8.60] has quit [Quit: going home] 23:28:54 Ohh, you mean "my higher-order function" as in "the function that will be used to implement all my other MAPCAR-like functions"? 23:29:46 It's a pretty esoteric restriction you will have on the function passed to that mapcar-like thing 23:30:03 mapcar itseff has no such restriction 23:30:39 I think you didn't quite understand what I'm planning to do. 23:30:52 Fair enough 23:31:23 Let's say I call (mapalist #'list '((a . 1)) (b . 2)) 23:31:29 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has joined #lisp 23:32:23 Hum. Oh damn. Not used to call it with more than 1 alist, eh. 23:33:43 -!- boysetsfrog [~nathan@123-243-214-176.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:33:56 (mapalist #'list '((a . 1)) '((b . 2))) actually. Returning ((a 1 b 2)). A bit of a bad example, I guess. 23:34:23 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050064129.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:34:48 But let's say I have 3 key-value pairs for each of my 2 alists instead of 1. Then I'll have to call APPLY with #'LIST 3 times. 23:35:23 I want to reuse the list I will apply instead of consing a new one each time. I guess if there are 1000 elements or something, that could actually make some difference in performance. 23:36:12 So, that shouldn't impose any restriction on how I can call MAPALIST compared to MAPCAR, unless I'm missing something. 23:37:26 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@83.222.167.92] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:37:35 -!- pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:37:42 pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has joined #lisp 23:43:09 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-52-243-62.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:45:24 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@218.82.57.220] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:46:19 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-24-147-116-20.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:47:18 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.88.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:48:35 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.92.239] has joined #lisp 23:53:49 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-24-147-116-20.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:54:05 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 23:55:44 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-67-38.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]