00:00:03 I have, at this point, completely forgotten why I wanted to add new fields, heh 00:00:17 So maybe I should just let it go until I need it again 00:00:30 Perhaps you need to go all the way to DEFINE-SETF-EXPANDER. 00:00:32 *seangrove* is trying to match the couchdb flow 00:01:25 did I miss why you're not just using hash tables? 00:01:35 ! 00:01:39 sykopomp: Reverse lookup 00:01:48 ah 00:02:03 Heh, that was a lie ;) 00:02:16 oh 00:02:30 Assoc lists are just what a lot of my stuff is built on, convenient to keep it in that form 00:02:38 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu255.queens.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:03:03 mbohun [~user@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:07 seangrove: change the storage. make an interface to the new storage so you can't tell the difference 00:03:13 when you don't depend on implementation details, that's convenient :) 00:03:21 I was about to suggest what schmrkc said! 00:04:25 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-221-135.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:04:37 syntard: Fucntion definitions that are a bit more like haskell, maybe. Some people may like that. 00:04:41 BTW, my gut is also that DEFINE-SETF-EXPANDER is not the route you want to go down. 00:04:55 seangrove: check out src/utils.lisp in the chillax sources. 'at'. 00:04:59 Fundamentally your problem is that alists are not objects with identity. 00:05:05 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-159-215.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:05:38 sykopomp: this makes me happy that you were to suggest it. Means I am heading in the right direction here. 00:05:55 schmrkc: I don't know if following my advice is necessarily wise. Listen to gigamonkey, instead. 00:06:05 -!- Intensity [ARPvoYnr1B@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:06:28 He practically wrote the book on Lisp, after all. 00:06:29 ;) 00:07:00 hehehe 00:07:09 seangrove: I'm not entirely sure about how nice AT is, but it might get the job you need done. 00:07:26 Being able to chain is nice when dealing with documents :) 00:07:59 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:08:06 (at doc :key1 :key2 :key3) and such. 00:08:11 sykopomp: Actually, yeah, I think I was a bit inspired by @ :) 00:09:22 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 00:12:15 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:14:35 Does anyone know what header arguments go into an org-babel code block to specify the CL package? 00:16:17 Hmm, why does make-hash-table not recognize the :test key? 00:16:30 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-126-135.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:16:37 seangrove: what makes you say it doesn't? 00:16:50 There are only certain functions (or symbols) you can pass as values to :test 00:17:00 Not arbitrary functions, sadly. 00:17:09 pickles [~paul@d47-69-2-54.col.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 00:17:55 Trying to use #'string-equal 00:18:08 Ah, I see, that's not one of them :P 00:18:13 if you want case-insensitive comparison, use #'equalp 00:18:17 dto: are you the author of ob-lisp.el? 00:18:50 #'equal will give you case-sensitive comparison. 00:18:53 seangrove: use equal, it comes out about the same. 00:19:02 Or equalp if you want case-insensitive. 00:19:26 Hmm, alright 00:19:37 (equalp 'this "this") != (string-equal 'this "this") :( 00:19:44 But maybe that's less important than I think 00:20:39 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.1.39.125] has joined #lisp 00:20:54 Probably. 00:21:19 If you're using strings as keys, use them. If you're using symbols, use them and use the default EQL hash table. 00:21:58 *seangrove* goes to rejigger some underlying libs 00:22:14 -!- prip [~foo@host214-83-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:22:30 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Quit:] 00:22:48 so i thought of a good ad for a lisp programming position 00:22:52 (cdr wntd) 00:23:11 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 00:24:56 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 00:25:26 -!- kanru [~kanru@114-45-232-142.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:26:40 abugosh [~Adium@12.167.132.226] has joined #lisp 00:27:07 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-094-158.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:27:33 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-094-158.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 00:28:34 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:28:36 pickles: except only a C programmer would name a variable wntd. ;-) 00:29:24 guilty :-D 00:29:30 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu255.queens.ox.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 00:29:49 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-159-215.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:30:01 been doing more haskell these days than any C variant 00:30:11 Pronounced the way I usually pronounce CDR, the now-censored section of craigslist may be a more appropriate place for such an ad. 00:30:33 O_o 00:30:46 sykopomp: How do you pronounce CDR? 00:30:46 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.1.39.125] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 00:31:04 iwillig [~ivan@ool-18b944f4.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:31:12 pickles: Is it painful to switch between ((((())))) and $$$$ ? 00:31:15 "Cooder" 00:31:45 schmrkc: actually, i use ((())) in haskell too, because $ is actually an operator 00:31:46 Cudder? 00:32:32 pickles: I see. I thought $ was pretty much () () (: 00:32:57 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:33:09 I guess that wont work as ((())) 00:33:21 sykopomp: I think this joke is lost on me :S 00:33:23 schmrkc: so did i, but was corrected in #haskell 00:33:33 Is there some code to turn a hash table into an assoc list? 00:33:36 prip [~foo@host55-194-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 00:33:54 seangrove: there is. (I know because I've written it. 00:33:55 ) 00:34:00 loop over hashtable and collect into alist? 00:34:01 seangrove: alexandria:hash-table-alist 00:34:05 Dunno if it's in any publically available library. 00:34:10 There you go 00:34:16 iirc 00:34:32 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:34:45 *seangrove* feels uncomfortable installing an entire egyptian city into such a small lisp project 00:34:49 Someone should organize an alexandriafication hackathon where Lispers show up and convert their own code and other publically available libraries to use alexandria wherever possible. 00:35:04 seangrove: alexandria is incredibly common. 00:35:16 schmrkc: the joke of the cdr pronunciation is that the pronunciation was an euphanism for the portion of the female form residing under the delicates (located at the lower altitude of the two such regions) 00:35:17 *gigamonkey* is more worried about the fact that it's eventually going to be burned to the ground. 00:35:19 seangrove: you're using Quicklisp aren't you. 00:35:20 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-56-110.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:35:22 -!- xan_ [~xan@26.Red-88-24-228.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:35:44 In fact, it's likely that alexandria is -already- a dependency for one of the libraries you're using. 00:35:54 pickles: they are all delicates, which do you mean? 00:36:18 the one babies come out of 00:37:01 *syntard* is lost. 00:37:19 -!- vs_ [~fualo@markov.genomecenter.ucdavis.edu] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:37:28 Wow, alexandria is very nice 00:38:00 billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 00:38:53 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:39:22 pickles: oh! I get it! 00:40:55 ... I didn't, ever, suspect I'll see a real life version of "You lost me" that isn't staged. Kudos, pickles and syntard. 00:41:15 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.58.222] has joined #lisp 00:41:33 *sykopomp* missed something. Figures it's probably Monty Python humor. 00:41:40 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:42:13 *pickles* bows 00:42:29 pickles: I'm pretty sure babies come from storks 00:42:38 sykopomp: not exactly Monty Python, more like obscure japanese fan comic 00:42:52 what's after alexandria in conservative order? 00:43:07 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 00:43:16 drdo: exactly, we're talking about a lady's storks. 00:43:17 babel 00:43:44 but i mawed the lawns already hrhrhr 00:43:46 -!- abugosh [~Adium@12.167.132.226] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:43:47 lol 00:43:55 -!- compmstr [~compmstr@adsl-074-185-008-197.sip.clt.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:44:57 drdo: as opposed to her owls 00:45:10 *pickles* is going to stop this line of conversation now 00:45:21 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu255.queens.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:45:35 (my apologies to any ladies in the room.) 00:46:13 I'd bet a lot of money that there isn't a single female in #lisp 00:46:24 nah 00:46:36 drdo:i was thikning of making such a comment as well, but decided against it 00:47:04 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-56-110.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:47:43 We are just a bunch of characters. 00:48:07 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@61.99.46.4] has joined #lisp 00:48:17 in IRC atleast 00:48:31 can i be the letter m? 00:49:56 you'll be emma 00:50:13 you know, gail zacharias from clozure associates used to hang out here 00:50:29 getpwnam [~ian@70-138-107-74.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:41 drdo: How much do you want to bet? 00:52:13 schmrkc: Pretty sure you just asked someone to join :P 00:52:27 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:52:40 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 00:52:46 also. I find this sort of comment offensive. 00:52:51 -!- konr [~user@187.106.38.106] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:53:06 antifuchs: which sort? 00:53:26 the one that asserts lisp is a boys-only sport. 00:53:53 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@61.99.46.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:53:53 which isn't helped by making nudge-nudge wink-wink jokes about female anatomy either 00:54:05 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-232-252.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:54:09 i read it as saying that only boys would be so nerdy as to frequent an IRC lisp room -- more of an insult to males than females 00:54:11 antifuchs: If you can't take this humorously, then i think you are quite sad, and don't really care 00:54:36 drdo: that's great - keep being part of the problem. 00:54:49 antifuchs: There is no problem, what's the problem? 00:55:22 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 00:55:24 I was making a simple joke based on the true fact that the crushing majority of lisp programmers are male 00:55:33 Where is the problem? 00:55:44 the problem is that lisp is being seen as a highly exclusive (even forbidding) thing already - it isn't exactly helpful to exclude even larger portions of a potential target audience 00:55:55 maybe I misunderstood the joke 00:56:13 I didn't exactly start a campaign against any gender 00:56:18 but saying "I bet there isn't a single woman here" is kinda insulting to the ones that /are/ here. 00:56:19 syntard: no i'll be emma 00:56:25 I'm all for anyone being able to do anything 00:56:30 anyway. 00:56:32 emma: ok! 00:56:35 how do i deal with a variable length list? i.e.: (loop for (item1 item2 item3 ... n) = (fare-csv:read-csv-line stream) 00:56:35 vented. 00:56:40 antifuchs: I'd say it's actually quite the opposite 00:56:41 *pickles* applauds emma 00:56:58 It's quite flattering to the ones that actually are 00:57:26 jconrad: you can give names to the ones you want and slurp up the rest with variable after a . 00:57:52 (loop for (a b c . rest) = ... ) 00:57:58 drdo: that somebody is supposed to be flattered doesn't automatically make them so. 00:58:05 antifuchs, drdo: perhaps any femalese in the room shoudl weigh in 00:58:10 yeah, that would be nice. 00:58:15 (gah, typos) 00:58:23 Xach: great! thank you 00:58:23 or ones outside the room. 00:58:36 antifuchs: I will laugh at jokes directed at me, my gender, my country, my race, whatever, it's just a joke 00:58:41 drdo: that's great for you 00:58:51 If you actually get offended by such things, it says more about your insecurity than anything else 00:59:05 drdo: thanks for the lesson in applied feminism. 00:59:16 I will go away now 00:59:17 what? 00:59:20 *antifuchs* hangs head in shame 00:59:43 *Xach* tries to remember if loop destructuring uses any lambda list keywords 01:00:23 loop is a macroooooo 01:00:40 so it uses extended lambda lists 01:00:56 homie: I'm not talking about that. 01:01:00 ah 01:01:19 homie: I'm talking about the ability to have destructuring assignment, like jconrad was asking about. 01:01:47 homie: If you're not following the context, throwing out answers is less than helpful. 01:02:27 yep, i joined later, can't find that part of jconrad referring to 01:02:36 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:06:58 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h137n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 01:08:18 -!- pickles [~paul@d47-69-2-54.col.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:09:22 -!- jsnikeris [~user@pool-98-114-175-66.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:09:54 jsnikeris [~user@pool-98-114-175-66.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:13:57 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Issues/iss130_w.htm 01:15:36 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:16:45 abugosh [~Adium@12.167.132.226] has joined #lisp 01:18:22 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:18:46 i don't know how much the implementations have changed anything regarding loop 01:18:54 -!- jsnikeris [~user@pool-98-114-175-66.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:19:13 last paragraph says it 01:19:30 jsnikeris [~user@pool-98-114-175-66.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:19:46 according to that issue, loop does use desctructuring but not compatible with desctructuring-bind way 01:20:22 and it seems it does not allow &-keywords 01:20:54 but that maybe have changed or even the implementation's offer extensions ? 01:20:56 i don't know 01:20:57 _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has joined #lisp 01:24:29 kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has joined #lisp 01:25:38 -!- jconrad [~jconrad@host109-153-43-236.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: jconrad] 01:25:58 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:26:05 jconrad [~jconrad@host109-153-43-236.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 01:27:00 -!- jsnikeris [~user@pool-98-114-175-66.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:28:14 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-094-158.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:29:09 jsnikeris [~user@pool-98-114-175-66.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:30:33 -!- jconrad [~jconrad@host109-153-43-236.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:34:25 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483AA3B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:35:48 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has left #lisp 01:42:30 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:44:52 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 01:45:33 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:45:46 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.194.0] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 01:46:53 -!- seangrove [~user@70.36.236.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:48:53 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 01:51:48 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:54:20 nowl [~nowl@c-71-233-2-216.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:55:18 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:56:25 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:00:44 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@83.222.167.236] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:00:48 dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:01:27 -!- dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:01:53 -!- Joreji [~thomas@67-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:02:35 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-232-252.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:03:35 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-162-120.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:03:53 -!- Taiyou` [~Taiyou@bas3-toronto47-1279335115.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:04:05 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 02:04:30 -!- c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:07:45 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:09:23 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:10:09 -!- abugosh [~Adium@12.167.132.226] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:12:21 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-187-2.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:12:30 lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 02:13:31 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-162-120.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:14:20 TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@124-171-219-124.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 02:14:26 -!- Salamander__ is now known as Salamander 02:18:17 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 02:20:02 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has joined #lisp 02:20:35 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-218-150.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:21:36 so maybe for a 3 month period #lisp should autoredirect to #lispcafe 02:21:55 seangrove [~user@70-6-111-212.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 02:21:56 this would let people alreay joined here stay in #lisp, but everyone else joining would end up in #lispcare 02:21:59 cafe even 02:22:06 qwerty sillyness. 02:22:50 Can defgenerics not have optional arguments? 02:23:53 Ah, got it 02:23:58 Hidden in google :P 02:24:22 seangrove: don't tell anyone http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/03_db.htm 02:25:50 Ah, I guess the problem is I've already defined the generic function, and I can't redefine it with a different lambda list 02:26:19 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 02:26:31 (unintern ...) doesn't seem to help 02:28:34 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-118-114.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:28:51 calling defgeneric again should work... 02:29:03 it reallocates the generic-function etc. 02:30:33 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:30:38 I get: The lambda-list (KEY STORE TEST) is incompatible with existing methods of # (2)>. 02:32:20 remove the methods 02:32:25 I'm looking at ensure-generic-function 02:32:41 schmrkc: How do I do that? 02:33:17 seangrove: I am thinking that actually varies quite a bit. But inspecting the generic-function object seems a nice place to start. 02:33:27 atleast that is what I'd do 02:33:31 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-187-2.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:33:31 but then I like INSPECT 02:33:31 hmm, strange! defgeneric is supposed to remove methods 02:33:41 (intersection (unionc (apropos "DELETE") (apropos "REMOVE")) (apropos "METHOD")) 02:33:57 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:34:11 TOo bad apropos doesn't return the list of symbols it found. 02:34:28 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-255-72.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:34:46 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/c_object.htm 02:34:47 It seems I just got owned by pjb 02:35:32 *seangrove* didn't know about inspect 02:35:36 It looks amazing 02:36:02 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:36:05 syntard: You misunderstood the removing of methods. 02:36:28 syntard: It does that if the lambda list is congruent with what you've got. 02:37:18 schmrkc: ok 02:38:18 Ah, do I have to remove all of the methods before I can redefine a generic function with a new lambda list? 02:38:54 syntard: I think it even specifies that an error SHOULD be signalled. 02:39:08 seangrove: well maybe there is a slot you can just set to nil. 02:39:10 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@81.193.2.247] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:39:59 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.33.72] has joined #lisp 02:40:09 schmrkc: how does that solve incongruence? 02:41:05 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:41:27 compmstr [~compmstr@adsl-074-185-008-197.sip.clt.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:41:48 Thinking I'm trapped here 02:41:53 Will have to just restart sbcl 02:42:22 seangrove: yes, that's easier, but why not use remove-method? for educational purposes 02:42:31 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@61.48.58.239] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:42:34 -!- getpwnam [~ian@70-138-107-74.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 02:42:50 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:42:56 syntard: It didn't work - or rather, I'm not sure how to use it. I don't know how to specify a given method. I'll look it up a bit later, my train is almost in ;) 02:43:16 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 02:50:47 -!- seangrove [~user@70-6-111-212.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:53:53 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:55:54 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.42] has joined #lisp 02:58:49 mc [~user@adsl-190-190-120.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:05:09 Taiyou` [~Taiyou@67.70.227.10] has joined #lisp 03:05:12 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:06:14 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 03:06:33 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 03:06:38 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:07:32 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-180-76.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 03:08:22 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-255-72.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:11:20 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:11:56 -!- Taiyou` [~Taiyou@67.70.227.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:12:21 Taiyou` [~Taiyou@67.70.227.10] has joined #lisp 03:13:28 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:13:43 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.48.210] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:15:24 -!- iwillig [~ivan@ool-18b944f4.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:18:58 -!- Taiyou` [~Taiyou@67.70.227.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:19:03 Hi all, how do I continuously iterate over a list until some condition is met? For example: (loop for x in list until condition do (fn-that-changes-state-of-list)) 03:19:57 jsnikeris: just like that? 03:20:06 However, I want to loop over the list again if the condition isn't met 03:20:21 just keep looping until its finally met 03:21:00 nah mean? 03:22:16 jsnikeris: when 03:22:21 I'm thinking about temporarily making the list circular and then fixing it afterwards 03:23:30 jsnikeris: you have my blessing 03:24:00 syntard: but I can do this using 'when'? 03:24:58 jsnikeris: not sure what you want to do, try clhs, cltl2, pcl 03:25:25 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 03:25:40 Hmm, I think a recursive function might be more appropriate here 03:26:06 Avisch [~Avisch@70-101-99-64.dsl1-field.roc.ny.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 03:26:13 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 03:27:29 why does the lispbuilder-sdl-examples demo raw-audio-test bring slime to quit because of memory ? it already played the wav 03:31:49 -!- compmstr [~compmstr@adsl-074-185-008-197.sip.clt.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:34:27 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:35:23 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-0-111.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:39:15 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:39:29 sabalaba [~sabalaba@211.101.128.18] has joined #lisp 03:39:30 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:39:43 -!- symbole [~user@216.214.176.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:40:03 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:41:43 :( http://paste.lisp.org/display/116980 03:42:05 symbole [~user@216.214.176.130] has joined #lisp 03:45:54 Quadrescence: you'll just have to find an that has nice things to say about lisp 03:47:11 yeah 03:47:30 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:49:06 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:49:31 annihilator [~rff@ip72-207-243-174.br.br.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:52:26 -!- rff [~rff@ip72-207-243-174.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:53:10 congrats, you either found a troll or a close-minded fool. 03:54:11 sohail [~Adium@76-10-165-4.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 03:54:17 -!- sohail [~Adium@76-10-165-4.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 03:54:17 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 03:54:24 and i'm not just saying that because I like lisp. it's obvious that the person in question has an emotional stance instead of solid reasons to dislike lisp. 03:55:17 he is a friend. he seems to have been pissed about lisp ever since i said i got a lisp machine. I guess the suggestion to write a computer algebra system in lisp blew him over the top (he wants to in C) 03:57:13 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: nighty night] 03:59:57 *askatasuna* shrugs 04:00:12 i don't want to speak ill of your friend without knowing him 04:00:49 maybe it's the lack of context, but it sounds like he hasn't written much lisp code 04:01:16 basimple [~bazimple@125.129.57.198] has joined #lisp 04:01:23 yeah. and never used a proper editor 04:01:42 -!- basimple [~bazimple@125.129.57.198] has quit [Client Quit] 04:03:11 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 04:03:33 lisp didn't click for me until one day i was programming something, and realized i could do it a certain way, and ended up with a 5 line function that was the equivalent of, I shit you not, 100 lines of java. it took me a year and a half to get there 04:04:38 somnium [~user@184.42.17.189] has joined #lisp 04:04:54 p_l|uni: I got him to use emacs after a ton of time 04:05:06 but no he hasn't written any CL 04:05:55 -!- murilasso [~murilasso@189.103.20.140] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:06:52 murilasso [~murilasso@189.103.20.140] has joined #lisp 04:09:53 tell him to have a beer and lighten up. it's just a programming language :D 04:11:39 Quadrescence: for some reason I don't think he has been programming long 04:11:56 or didn't branch enough 04:15:51 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:17:11 -!- ddv [~ddevaal@bogomips.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:17:19 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:18:34 askatasuna: well I promote lisp more than I should 04:18:48 I'm sure some people find it annoying 04:19:56 is there something else than format to append a string to the end of a fill-pointer/adjustable string? 04:21:26 ddv [~ddevaal@bogomips.nl] has joined #lisp 04:23:02 -!- az [~az@p4FE4E8F5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:23:40 -!- vandemar [spin@2001:470:1f10:56b::4] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:24:08 vandemar [bella@2001:470:1f10:56b::4] has joined #lisp 04:24:47 Quadrescence: hahaha, yeah, I do that too sometimes. but my friends joke about it while we program our college projects in python :p 04:25:03 Quadrescence: I think a chunk of that response of your friend is from lacking certain kind of background in computing science that makes one more open towards alternatives. In my case, a quite big chunk of retrocomputing was involved and study of older software 04:25:43 p_l|uni: he has programmed for a while, but seems to get so caught up in "beautiful syntax" and trivialities 04:26:26 -!- mc [~user@adsl-190-190-120.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:26:35 well, I get caught in trivialities as well, but I learned (sometimes the hard way) that single size doesn't fit all. I can only hope I'll heed that experience in the future ^^; 04:27:00 I usually get caught up in trivialities when I haven't actually used something 04:27:17 when I use common lisp I don't care about the ugly symbol names and whatever 04:27:43 i'd rather that than the prettiest most organized symbol names in a language I can't do what I want in 04:28:57 most sensible 04:29:34 well, we've patted our backs enough for now. hope all is well with everyone, i'm off to bed 04:29:36 -!- nowl [~nowl@c-71-233-2-216.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:29:58 az [~az@p5796C2D2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:30:00 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 04:30:23 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.33.72] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 04:30:32 -!- sloanr [~user@64.244.48.114] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:37:40 _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has joined #lisp 04:38:28 Good morning everyone! 04:39:04 fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 04:39:42 beach: morning 04:39:52 -!- fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:41:28 -!- rapacity [~prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:41:53 rapacity [~prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has joined #lisp 04:42:32 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has left #lisp 04:46:45 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:47:31 morning, beach. 04:49:34 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:51:46 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 04:53:42 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has joined #lisp 04:55:29 fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 04:57:30 sellout [~greg@71.175.25.141] has joined #lisp 04:57:52 -!- erory [~rory_elri@203-206-172-3.perm.iinet.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:58:08 -!- sellout [~greg@71.175.25.141] has quit [Client Quit] 05:00:05 sellout [~greg@71.175.25.141] has joined #lisp 05:17:55 Ocaso [~chatzilla@203.156.243.14] has joined #lisp 05:27:02 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:27:44 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:43:46 -!- sellout [~greg@71.175.25.141] has quit [Quit: sellout] 05:47:02 Harag [~user@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:48:00 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:48:03 kenjin_ [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has joined #lisp 05:48:29 -!- kenjin_ is now known as Guest47211 05:56:24 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.235.211] has joined #lisp 05:57:25 cl-gtk2-gtkglext system which is a part of cl-gtk2 seems not to be defined in quicklisp, is there a specific reason? or am i doing something wrong? 05:58:15 -!- abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:00:12 kenanb: quickload cl-gtk2 then eventually call it through ASDF if it didn't get loaded 06:01:32 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-127-213.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 06:01:41 dberg [~user@c-98-234-179-166.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:03:37 churib [~tg@dslc-082-082-126-031.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 06:04:26 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-180-76.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:05:02 mrSpec [~Spec@chello089075035251.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 06:05:02 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@chello089075035251.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 06:05:02 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:07:16 ok then, i haven't normally switced to asdf2 yet and i don't know how ql itself controls asdf systems, so i didn't want to mess something by loading manually 06:07:21 but whatever :) 06:08:37 err (stream-external-format *standard-output*) gives me (:UTF-8 :REPLACEMENT #\REPLACEMENT_CHARACTER) in sbcl is that normal ? 06:09:57 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-sajsrxtlqepaquoc] has joined #lisp 06:09:57 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-sajsrxtlqepaquoc] has quit [Changing host] 06:09:57 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 06:10:24 -!- annihilator [~rff@ip72-207-243-174.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:11:10 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.235.211] has left #lisp 06:21:40 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 06:23:35 Looks plausible. 06:24:59 -!- TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@124-171-219-124.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Disconnected by services] 06:25:33 TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@124-171-208-8.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 06:27:31 -!- dberg [~user@c-98-234-179-166.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:27:52 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:28:33 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 06:35:43 -!- Salamander__ is now known as Salamander 06:35:53 -!- Guest47211 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:37:47 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[udzinari@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has left #lisp 07:39:55 good morning 07:46:11 -!- daniel___ is now known as daniel 07:54:02 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@211.101.128.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:56:46 abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 07:58:36 marijnjh [~user@p5DDB218C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:01:17 jconrad [~jconrad@host109-153-43-236.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 08:07:05 sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has joined #lisp 08:07:41 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 08:08:15 ehu [~ehuels@109.32.176.10] has joined #lisp 08:09:57 ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 08:11:25 CharlesBucket [~CharlesBu@dsl-pool11-15.jamadots.com] has joined #lisp 08:14:46 Jabberwockey [~jgrabarsk@selene.ftk.de] has joined #lisp 08:15:50 -!- dberg [~user@c-98-234-179-166.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 08:18:45 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 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08:45:00 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-124-36.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 08:45:48 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:47:29 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 08:51:02 tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:53:59 Guthur [c0c1f50e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.193.245.14] has joined #lisp 08:55:08 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:55:15 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 08:55:54 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:56:24 hlavaty [~user@95-88-27-48-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:56:48 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:59:06 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-181-39.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:59:09 Hi everyone in lispland! 08:59:14 uhhi 08:59:56 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-244-48.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:00:40 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 09:00:52 -!- ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:01:13 ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 09:01:25 What is the simplest way to copy a file? 09:02:02 read it, write it 09:02:33 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-244-48.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 09:02:38 cl-fad:copy-file 09:02:48 does exactly that 09:03:34 stassats, thanks. 09:05:22 -!- egn [~egn@li101-203.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:05:26 egn [~egn@li101-203.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 09:05:33 it would have thought: cp foo bar 09:05:44 but to each their own, hehe 09:05:58 it/I 09:06:02 Guthur: what do you thing CP is doing? 09:06:08 think 09:06:46 stassats, Abstracting the reading and writing of a file maybe? 09:06:55 tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:07:12 Guthur: as well as cl-fad:copy-file 09:07:56 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-244-48.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:08:01 only the problems with running external programs are much worse than cl pathnames and cl i/o 09:08:44 adding to the fact that such programs might not be present at all 09:09:16 so, cp foo bar isn't the simplest way by far 09:09:40 -!- Jubb [~ghost@24-151-24-155.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:10:39 ... just avoid the madness that is mv 09:11:23 To be honest I wasn't being overly serious 09:11:23 xinming_ [~hyy@115.221.14.49] has joined #lisp 09:11:26 there's cl:rename-file 09:11:38 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:11:54 but if you were doing a alot of file manipulation you should probably use the tools design for the job that come with Unix 09:11:55 well, using external programs is sometimes better .. if you have to keep the permissions, extended attributes, etc. 09:12:32 easier to get an already working, optimized binary than to re-do everything 09:12:53 stassats: the kernel internals that end up called during renaming are traditionally preceded by swear words targeted at complexity and the person who invented the semantics 09:13:15 flip214: are cp options compatible between different unixes? 09:13:27 a few are, at least 09:13:38 -!- katofiad is now known as katofiad|zzz 09:13:55 stassats: the ones covered by POSIX are compatible between all systems that matter 09:14:07 http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/utilities/cp.html 09:14:45 -!- xinming [~hyy@115.223.132.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:15:20 Some special cases like sparse files might be better handled, too 09:16:33 sparse file handling isn't that hard if one checks the buffers contents before writing 09:17:26 -!- ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-136-196-32.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:17:29 erory [~rory_elri@124-171-30-38.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 09:18:12 petercoulton [~petercoul@152.105.49.35] has joined #lisp 09:18:54 -!- erory [~rory_elri@124-171-30-38.dyn.iinet.net.au] has left #lisp 09:19:08 ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-23-144-204.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:19:49 though it's better to use at least 512 byte buffers for that 09:19:58 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@77.16.192.108.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 09:20:35 gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.231.171] has joined #lisp 09:21:45 jconrad_ [~jconrad@host109-153-43-28.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:22:53 Well, I'd thought about 32k or something like that ... for performant IO block sizes of a few MB may be necessary nowadays 09:23:28 -!- jconrad [~jconrad@host109-153-43-236.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:23:28 -!- jconrad_ is now known as jconrad 09:23:44 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:25:34 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 09:27:04 netytan [~netytan@host81-141-55-224.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 09:29:53 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu255.queens.ox.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 09:30:55 flip214: 512 is the smallest block size in filesystem that I encountered 09:31:40 4kb is the usual 09:31:54 and sparse regions are based on block size 09:32:22 yes ... but doing 512 byte IO won't be fast. The current SSDs go with ~500MB/sec - so for 1kB you're at 500k ops/sec, and that will be syscall-speed-limited 09:32:28 fred-o [~user@c-cce070d5.017-8-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 09:32:56 Of course you'll be wasting a bit of space with bigger buffer sizes ... but if you really care about that I'd suggest using big buffers and looking which parts to write 09:33:47 I hope that "cp" does know about all this - so that *I* don't have to care ... 09:33:57 flip214: if I were working on something that much I/O bound on small sizes, I wouldn't touch such slow SSDs 09:34:10 3463 assertions passed, 197 failed, 5 execution errors with gsll 09:34:21 does anyone get so many ? 09:34:46 especially those 5 execution errors with memory problems ? 09:34:49 p_l|home, I beg your pardon? That's a *single* SSD ... of course you can still do RAID10 or whatever with them 09:35:11 and especially for small, random access SSDs are better. I think I don't understand you. 09:36:13 flip214: last time I encountered (physically) SSD used for hi-speed I/O, it had throughput in terms of GB/s and million IOPS 09:36:30 *millions of IOPS 09:36:36 p_l|home: pricing in the tens of thousands minimum, too ? :) 09:36:43 koollman: yep :P 09:36:55 well, I'm speaking of currently available SSDs, for a few hundred € or $ 09:36:55 but that was the small model, I think we had few of those for DB caches :D 09:36:56 (let me guess... ramsan?) 09:37:03 koollman: yep 09:37:09 Of course, there are faster things too 09:37:14 they are an exception, when it comes to SSD 09:37:36 it wasn't really that pricy compared to the prices that go in the market that they were used in... 09:38:10 (where a $20k server gets okayed without question as long as there's a reason attached to purchase request) 09:39:35 *stassats* waits till the discussion about copying a file in CL advances to the entropy of the Universe 09:41:10 -!- Ocaso [~chatzilla@203.156.243.14] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.12/20101026210630]] 09:41:39 -!- peddie [~peddie@c-67-169-8-107.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:43:19 neither pass those in sbcl 1.042 nor in 1.0.44 09:43:24 hmmmm 09:45:15 tfb [~tfb@94.197.81.115.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:46:33 pavelludiq [~quassel@83.222.167.92] has joined #lisp 09:47:38 -!- tama [~tama@pool-71-164-234-131.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:49:20 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:52:48 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 09:53:30 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 09:56:13 has anybody ported the webserver example from land of lisp to sbcl yet? 09:56:24 Because I can't figure out how to properly use usocket. 09:57:00 what troubles you? 09:57:13 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu255.queens.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:58:27 mh...I guess proper use of read and read-line and when newlines are sent or not 09:58:32 all those pesky details... 09:58:36 PCMX [~dborba@pool-74-105-202-55.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:58:53 what usocket has to do with it? 10:00:11 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-245-69.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:01:01 good point... 10:01:06 cYmen: I don't think sbcl has a way to specify the line ending for a stream; so you'd have to write your own read-line 10:01:09 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-92-141.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:01:23 H4ns` [~user@p579F8F46.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:02:01 -!- Quetzalcoatl_ [~godless@cpe-75-186-5-185.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:02:26 also you want to limit the length of a line to something sane otherwise you are prone to a dos attack 10:02:32 Quetzalcoatl_ [~godless@cpe-75-186-5-185.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:03:13 Yes, but I don't think I want to worry about that for this simple example. 10:03:34 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 10:04:03 hm...seems that read on streams from usocket behaves like read-line 10:04:20 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@152.105.49.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:04:36 READ behaves like READ 10:05:08 -!- H4ns [~user@p579F8874.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:05:16 try (foo RET RET RET bar) 10:06:03 What am I looking for? 10:07:15 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu255.queens.ox.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:08:34 (read (usocket:socket-stream *serstr*)) blocks until I send something with a newline 10:08:57 Try sendin "(FOO 10:09:06 "(FOO\n" 10:09:24 the READ will not return until it sees the closing parenthesis 10:09:33 ah... 10:09:43 Yes, that makes sense. 10:10:16 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-76-67.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:10:26 -!- Harag [~user@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:11:00 splittist [~John@245-26.3-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 10:11:03 morning 10:11:16 splittist: Good morning. 10:12:09 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-245-69.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:13:35 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:14:15 tcr: it does also wait for a newline after the closing parenthesis 10:14:35 yes 10:15:04 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.58.222] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:15:20 ZabaQ [~john.conn@playboxgames.com] has joined #lisp 10:15:35 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 10:15:52 peddie [~peddie@c-67-169-8-92.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:16:00 If slime was not a possibility for some reason or other, what development methods are there to fall back on - I take it the next best thing is run-lisp and *inferior-lisp* in a buffer? 10:16:09 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-76-67.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:16:52 Harag [~user@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:17:27 A while back I tried the emacs plugin for lisp and it was pretty cool... 10:17:35 Did I say emacs? I meant eclipse. 10:18:15 Joreji [~thomas@67-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 10:18:16 ZabaQ: i can't imagine such reasons 10:18:33 cYmen: I imagine that the Emacs plugin for LISP would be fairly good. :-) 10:19:06 unfortunately, there is only one for Lisp 10:19:18 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-201-226.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:19:50 staasats: I have reasons. 10:20:03 what are they? 10:20:42 ZabaQ: people wrote Lisp like that for a very long time, it works OK 10:20:43 stassats:OpenGL and Windows and threads and message loops. 10:21:14 what about these? 10:21:30 -!- trigen [~MSX@ec2-46-51-179-218.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has left #lisp 10:21:54 staasats: I have the choice of two communincation styles on win32 nil or spawn - both have problems 10:22:24 trigen [~MSX@ec2-46-51-179-218.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 10:22:27 nil blocks the message loop, spawn means I'm not executing repl code in the same thread as my ogl context. 10:23:32 then execute your code in the right thread 10:23:53 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:24:12 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-241-196.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:24:14 stassats: I can't, with slime anyway. That's the kind of unhelpful non-answer I really hate about #lisp 10:24:41 what do you mean you can't? 10:24:57 you get the answers proportional to the questions you ask 10:25:02 stassats: Slime doesnt let me. 10:25:21 ZabaQ: and how are you trying to do it? 10:25:38 http://badbyteblues.blogspot.com/2010/08/opengl-development-on-windows-with.html 10:25:38 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-201-226.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:25:42 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754272.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:25:45 might explain a bit more 10:26:04 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 10:26:15 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-135-191.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:26:30 -!- fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 10:26:31 ZabaQ: "each repl request in a seperate thread from the executing lisp code." this is untrue 10:27:07 each repl request is done in the same thread 10:27:21 stassats: Then why does any opengl call from the slime repl mysteriously fail with an error code that indicates there is no current ogl context even when the application is happily drawing things ? 10:27:44 ZabaQ: because you run it in the different thread? 10:27:47 zac314159 [~user@c-68-84-149-234.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:27:48 sassats: but its a seperate thread to the actual running lisp code. 10:28:29 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-241-196.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:28:36 sassats: Because SLIME runs it in a different thread, if I knew how to change that behaviour, without setting the communication style to nil, then I'd do it. 10:28:37 you want threads and you don't want threads at the same time? 10:28:47 ZabaQ: what implementation? 10:29:07 stassats: I want slime not to block my messge loop 10:29:17 stassats: No hang on. 10:29:37 stassats: I want swank to actually update slime while I'm in my message loop 10:29:42 CCL 10:29:46 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-171-239.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:30:17 stassats: I don't care about threads per se - it's just a means to an end 10:30:17 ZabaQ: write a macro IN-GL-THREAD (or SUBMIT-GL etc.) that will create a closure and "submit" it to designated GL-handling thread 10:30:49 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-135-191.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:30:58 Good idea. I can probably figure out how to do that.. 10:31:05 I have a file filled with words like these: @dnfs @nnfs @dgms Note that each word contains a @. I need to process the file to end up with another file containing the substring of each word to the right of the @, one substring per line. How can I read these words from the file one at a time, so as to be able to process them on at a time? 10:31:27 drl: reatable hack? 10:31:36 I mean readtable 10:32:19 ZabaQ, thanks. I'll read up on readtable. 10:32:54 what does readtable have to do with it? 10:33:00 clhs read-line 10:33:09 or use plain old loop that collects the data, breaking it for every @ 10:33:24 damn specbot 10:33:31 simpler, but not as much fun :-) 10:33:33 drl: use read-line to read a single line from a stream 10:33:34 i'd just read characters and collect stuff between #\@ and #\space 10:33:53 basically, buffer for current "word", and state machine that collects it 10:35:08 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 10:35:26 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-96-101.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:35:29 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-171-239.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:37:58 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-139-85.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:38:13 ZabaQ: (ccl:process-interrupt your-thread (lambda () your opengl stuff)) 10:38:16 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu255.queens.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:38:19 Thanks, you guys. 10:38:43 -!- Quetzalcoatl_ [~godless@cpe-75-186-5-185.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:39:40 oh, nice, gonna need to remember that one 10:40:18 though I have a feeling that I'd prefer to have a way to send a closure to another process -_-; (process, not thread, and not necessarily on the same machine) 10:40:35 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-96-101.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:40:35 -!- Joreji [~thomas@67-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:40:42 the "your-thread" should probably be something like *initial-process* 10:41:12 ZabaQ: that's what i meant "execute your code in the right thread" 10:41:35 although i don't have high hopes for process-interrupt 10:41:50 jdz: afaik only on MacOSX 10:42:00 stassats, ZabaQ: btw, there is CCL::CALL-IN-INITIAL-PROCESS, which is especially for this kind of thing 10:42:09 jdz: Windows iirc doesn't really care, unless you're using old APIs 10:43:01 p_l|home: well, that depends on what the issue is 10:43:15 so far it seems ZabaQ has the OSX style problem 10:43:39 but it can also be the case of missing special variable bindings (which are thread-local usually) 10:43:59 so, what stassats said: ensure the correct thread 10:44:15 jdz: Windows requires serialized access to the message queue, but doesn't specify a thread iirc, and some modern APIs specifically let you select either single or multithreaded mode 10:44:38 p_l|home: ok, good to know, but what's Windows? 10:44:39 OpenGL, otoh, really dislikes being called from different threads, for various reasons 10:45:00 jdz: from my pov, NT4+ 10:45:06 9x need not apply 10:45:16 from my pov, the things i look outside through 10:45:39 jdz: true, but ZabaQ mentioned Windows as the platform 10:46:09 p_l|home: that's his own problem (we're getting offtopic, really) 10:48:34 Quetzalcoatl_ [~godless@cpe-75-186-5-185.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:51:32 -!- Intensity [OzZPrc8k7M@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:55:53 ZabaQ: http://paste.lisp.org/display/116987 10:56:27 here's your "kind of unhelpful non-answer" 10:57:51 Any AllegroCL users with experience debugging resource and/or memory leaks? 11:01:19 stassats: apologies. very helpful indeed. 11:05:21 -!- Quetzalcoatl_ [~godless@cpe-75-186-5-185.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:06:24 http://paste.lisp.org/display/116987#1 a better version 11:06:32 petercoulton [~petercoul@152.105.49.35] has joined #lisp 11:06:44 without running code with the lock grabbed 11:07:20 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-21-168.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:07:55 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 11:07:55 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 11:07:55 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 11:10:56 xan_ [~xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 11:11:22 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.50.170] has joined #lisp 11:16:31 and you can also add (with-simple-restart (continue "Continue executing the loop") (funcall ...)) 11:17:23 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@218.82.57.220] has joined #lisp 11:20:50 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.231.171] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:21:07 You can also make Slime execute the repl thread in the main thread 11:21:12 Intensity [aXdzaH9hEx@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 11:22:17 -!- aoh [~aki@80.75.102.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:22:22 aoh [~aki@80.75.102.51] has joined #lisp 11:22:25 maybe find-repl-thread should go over a *find-repl-thread-function* 11:22:29 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 11:24:54 Maybe even add a new communication style called :threads which makes sure the repl thread is executed in the main-thread 11:25:31 tcr: good idea. 11:26:22 dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-66.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 11:27:56 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@playboxgames.com] has left #lisp 11:31:02 hi xach. here's something for you: http://lispgamesdev.blogspot.com/2010/11/screen-says-it-all.html 11:31:20 dto: i saw, very nice 11:31:25 Xach: :) 11:31:31 i should have left the modeline in though. 11:31:35 i turned it off for the shot 11:31:48 dto: so you can seat in the opposite corner of the room? 11:32:02 i usually sit in front, about 5 or 6 feet back. 11:32:12 it's a plasma, so the viewing angle is wide. 11:32:16 Where's minion? 11:32:34 in the same place where's specbot 11:33:15 Quetzalcoatl_ [~godless@cpe-75-186-5-185.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:37:12 aka asleep till next reincarnation 11:38:39 Yuuhi [benni@p5483A3F9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:43:15 -!- ignotus [~ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 11:44:17 tcr: and what to do with *inferior-lisp*? 11:44:33 start a repl in a new thread? 11:45:30 ost` [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 11:45:30 -!- ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:45:32 Sorry? 11:45:39 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 11:45:46 -!- p_l|home [~pl@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:45:50 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has left #lisp 11:46:36 I wonder what slime without the slime-repl contrib does 11:46:37 tcr: nil communication style runs in the main thread and makes a simple repl for *inferior-lisp* 11:47:13 ZabaQ [~john.conn@playboxgames.com] has joined #lisp 11:47:38 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:47:41 I wouldn't care for *inferior-lisp* 11:48:07 I wonder why nil does that 11:48:53 i don't care too, but "what would helmut say?" 11:49:35 luis: maybe lichtblau 11:50:04 That's why I posted to slime-devel. I don't have time to do it anyway just wanted to see what he thinks 11:51:48 the only times i uses *inferior-lisp* is when i hosed something 11:52:40 trace output goes to *inferior-lisp* for me usually 11:53:31 i don't mean the output, but the repl inside *inferior-lisp* 11:53:47 jdz: set swank:*globally-redirect-io* to t 11:53:55 in your .swank.lisp 11:54:13 tcr: haha, i don't even have that file (yet) 11:54:46 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 11:55:53 -!- kraison [~kraison@70.90.182.149] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:55:58 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:55:59 *ZabaQ* will never say #lisp is unhelpful again 11:57:03 It was you who triggered stupid reponses in the first place 11:57:41 Comming here and saying "I have my reasons" is a splendid recipe for getting disrespectful replies 11:57:54 just sayin' 11:58:15 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 11:58:20 tcr: what stupid responses. 11:59:11 Haragx [~user@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:59:17 it doesn't matter anymore 11:59:48 right 12:01:12 -!- Harag [~user@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has quit [Disconnected by services] 12:01:37 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@152.105.49.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:01:46 -!- Haragx is now known as Harag 12:03:16 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-128-26.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 12:04:12 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:04:15 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-244-48.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:04:56 -!- abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:06:00 jconrad_ [~jconrad@host86-147-40-130.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:06:48 -!- jconrad [~jconrad@host109-153-43-28.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:06:48 -!- jconrad_ is now known as jconrad 12:08:01 lichtblau: around? 12:08:18 ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 12:10:57 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Quit] 12:11:30 jconrad_ [~jconrad@host109-153-44-187.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:12:13 -!- jconrad [~jconrad@host86-147-40-130.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:12:13 -!- jconrad_ is now known as jconrad 12:14:03 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 12:15:56 -!- splittist [~John@245-26.3-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:16:58 what kind of resource leak? 12:17:58 with ACL's GC being exact as opposed to "annoyingly conservative" like gencgc, I don't recall having weird leaks on ACL at all. 12:18:34 abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 12:18:57 In general, their statistical profiler is really cool (i.e., usually more reliable/informative than sb-sprof in my personal experience). 12:19:57 jconrad_ [~jconrad@host109-153-50-120.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:21:23 -!- jconrad [~jconrad@host109-153-44-187.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:21:23 -!- jconrad_ is now known as jconrad 12:22:06 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-47.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 12:23:39 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:23:41 -!- kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:24:47 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has joined #lisp 12:24:56 splittist [~John@245-26.3-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 12:26:05 lichtblau: usually the GC just says it can't allocate more memory (I don't have the exact error message here), sometimes it fails when creating a new thread. 12:27:34 The profiler is indeed cool, but it tells me where consing's happening not what's causing a leak. 12:28:53 how many threads, which OS? 12:29:31 WinXP. *all-processes* doesn't list more than a handful at any given time. 12:29:35 rff [~rff@ip72-207-243-174.br.br.cox.net] has joined #lisp 12:29:49 11 or so. 12:31:58 ok. I was asking only because the default stack size is 10 MB on windows (whereas the Linux port has something small, like 1 MB or so), so when we've ported from Linux to Windows with our 100 threads, it asked for 1 GB of stack space... 12:32:04 But 11 threads x 10 MB default stack size is only 100 MB, so unless you're really memory starved that shouldn't be a problem. (Then OTOH, you report being memory starved.) 12:32:21 MagBo [~Sweater@195.114.56.71] has joined #lisp 12:32:36 ROOM isn't helpful? 12:36:57 ace4016 [~ace4016@adsl-33-40-124.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 12:37:24 lichtblau: all the info I can extract from ROOM is that there are a lot arrays and conses. :-) 12:38:53 lichtblau: Allegro's mp API doesn't seem to have thread-join. Maybe short-lived threads are being left around? 12:39:28 (this app spawns quite a few short-lived threads) 12:40:08 -!- PCMX [~dborba@pool-74-105-202-55.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:42:08 ch077179 [~ch077179@nat/ibm/x-tazcqxsrljxfycvh] has joined #lisp 12:44:11 -!- Quetzalcoatl_ [~godless@cpe-75-186-5-185.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:44:27 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-244-48.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:44:32 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754272.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:46:22 well, are the numbers reported by ROOM reasonable or are you simply exhausting your memory? 12:47:02 As for the threads, you can always try with a smaller stack size and see if it makes a difference. But that can't cure too much consing. 12:47:10 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:48:02 Joreji [~thomas@67-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:48:03 -!- abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:48:36 Quetzalcoatl_ [~godless@cpe-75-186-5-185.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:48:43 Thorn [~Thorn@unaffiliated/thorn] has joined #lisp 12:49:52 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@77.16.192.108.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:54:07 p_l|uni [~pl@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 12:54:19 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:54:24 lichtblau: yeah. I wish I had some sort of tool like attila/levy's trace-root thingie for SBCL. 12:54:44 lichtblau: I'll investigate the stack size thing. Thanks a lot for the tip. 12:55:11 luis: it's on the TODO to add it to sb-introspect. maybe the next time we'll have to fight such a problem... 12:55:39 luis: but I think it's in a pretty good shape in hu.dwim.debug... should load fine and work 12:57:03 ...not on the top of the TODO though... 12:57:40 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-251-107.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 12:58:25 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-139-85.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:59:18 attila_lendvai: yeah, but I could use it in ACL. :-) maybe I should try to port it. :) 13:01:16 lovesan [~lovesan@188.122.231.139] has joined #lisp 13:01:42 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:02:51 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 13:04:09 ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 13:04:15 luis: ah, ACL... well, I think it could be ported to ACL. the only voodoo is that it must dig into internal representations of objects and it needs a map-allocated-objects 13:04:55 if that's available on ACL then I'm open for a patch if you decide to port it 13:06:02 -!- Quetzalcoatl_ [~godless@cpe-75-186-5-185.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:06:15 -!- Doxem [~doxem@189.107.10.58] has quit [Quit: .•«UPP»•.] 13:08:38 sabalaba [~sabalaba@221.220.254.247] has joined #lisp 13:09:53 attila_lendvai: allegro's got some undocumented functions to do something like that. 13:12:10 Quetzalcoatl_ [~godless@cpe-75-186-5-185.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:12:36 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@77.16.192.214.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 13:12:50 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-185-237.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:13:46 lichtblau: btw, I've found this article that has a couple of hints as well: . 13:14:40 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.35] has joined #lisp 13:17:28 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 13:17:49 lispm's twitter picture is pretty cool: http://a3.twimg.com/profile_images/1164761387/rainer-joswig.jpg 13:18:26 Xach: what does it say? 13:18:40 syntard: it has a picture of rainer and a poster of john mccarthy. 13:18:46 under programming, i mean 13:18:48 syntard: "you're doing it wrong" 13:18:58 cool 13:19:00 completely wrong 13:19:08 a print of http://lemonodor.com/archives/2007/10/youre_doing_it_wrong.html 13:19:24 Bronsa [~bronsa@host125-173-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:19:30 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-24-147-116-20.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:20:04 lemonodor hall of fame doesn't await anymore :( 13:20:07 bojovs [~bojovs@p4173-ipad49hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:20:50 or rather Lemonodor-fame 13:20:52 kanru [~kanru@114-45-232-142.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:20:57 sure it does! you just have to do something with a robot car that runs on python. 13:20:59 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483A3F9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:21:37 *syntard* cracks up. 13:23:05 -!- bojovs [~bojovs@p4173-ipad49hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:25:42 -!- reav_ [~reav_@212.88.117.162] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:25:50 -!- Joreji [~thomas@67-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:26:10 stassats: What could be the new standard of hack quality and taste? 13:26:34 "Teclo-employment is but a hack away!"? 13:26:35 reav_ [~reav_@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 13:26:44 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-244-48.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:27:21 "reddit front-page is but a hack away!", doh 13:27:39 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-24-147-116-20.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:28:43 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@77.16.192.214.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:29:23 -!- ch077179 [~ch077179@nat/ibm/x-tazcqxsrljxfycvh] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 13:30:27 novaburst [~novaburst@sourcemage/mage/novaburst] has joined #lisp 13:30:37 The_Fellow [~spider1@glida.mooo.com] has joined #lisp 13:31:15 *Xach* would change a couple of those 13:32:02 a couple of scientifically-proven optimal words of hackerish encouragement? 13:32:38 humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:04 hey guys. how do i avoid quotes while using WRITE :stream ? 13:33:12 string quotes (") =) 13:33:17 :escape nil 13:33:22 ah! 13:33:26 -!- The_Fellow1 [~spider1@glida.mooo.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:33:33 or just use PRINC 13:34:18 to stream ? 13:34:18 *Xach* crowdsources 13:34:26 humasect: sure 13:34:31 Yuuhi [benni@p5483A3F9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:35:20 hmm both methods still come with string quotes. i may be doing something wrong elsewhere (likely) 13:35:36 humasect: are you sure that you're using PRINC? 13:35:52 yep - i will play in the repl to make sure 13:36:53 fogus` [c6970d0f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.151.13.15] has joined #lisp 13:37:38 ah here it works =) it was my own slime failings. thanks =) 13:40:35 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:43:30 sellout [~greg@71.175.25.141] has joined #lisp 13:48:35 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-244-48.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:49:42 dto: what kind of keyboard do you use for hacking on tv? 13:57:02 -!- tfb [~tfb@94.197.81.115.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:58:14 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:00:03 -!- humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 14:00:55 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:01:15 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.50.170] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:01:28 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:02:48 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 14:05:43 Xach: i have a logitech Wave 14:06:37 it's quite nice. 14:09:00 -!- ost` [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:10:06 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.12/20101026200743]] 14:12:30 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:13:43 Morning. 14:14:21 rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 14:16:25 hi gigamonkey. 14:16:31 hmm, reading about LLGPL 14:16:48 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-133-185.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 14:19:09 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-251-107.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:20:54 -!- sellout [~greg@71.175.25.141] has quit [Quit: sellout] 14:21:02 -!- churib [~tg@dslc-082-082-126-031.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:21:07 Xach: Please see if I have answered your ASDF question. 14:21:22 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:21:42 rpg: So :here is relative to the config file? 14:21:55 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:22:17 Xach: Yes. The idea is to make it possible for someone providing a complex directory structure to provide a guide to it w/o having to know its absolute location. 14:23:40 rpg: That makes sense. I didn't understand from your initial message if :here meant *d-p-d* and didn't know about the :include option. I thought config files had to live in one of the Blessed Config Directories. 14:24:19 Xach: No, as long as the ASDF Pontiff lays hands on them, they can be in arbitrary locations. ;-) 14:24:37 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:25:09 Xach: *d-p-d* got dragged into the discussion because Fare was suggesting that I use that instead of the distinguished *here-directory* special I introduced. That's a matter of implementation, not of interest to ASDF users. 14:25:53 rpg: A more explicit initial example would have helped me understand. 14:27:12 Xach: I tried to put one in the manual. If the email works better for you, I will try to update the manual along those lines. 14:28:31 rpg: If the email included the example, the email might have worked for me. I'm not motivated to check out the asdf sources and build the manual to see the example. 14:28:34 -!- syntard_ [~chatzilla@74.112.63.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:28:45 the emails are vague and confusing. 14:28:54 Xach: I meant the example in the follow-up email, which seems to have clarified some. 14:28:57 -!- antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:30:03 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.35] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:30:59 I'll put a new manual draft into lisppaste in a moment. 14:31:01 hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 14:31:12 rpg: The part excluding your common practice helped clarify, yes. And just now on IRC explaining that :here is relative to the config file. 14:31:50 Is there a directive that correlates to *d-p-d*? 14:31:52 *Xach* checks manual 14:35:01 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 14:35:03 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-201-214.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 14:35:26 muhdik [~IceChat7@parkmobile-usa.oneringnetworks.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:29 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-133-185.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 259 seconds] 14:36:57 Xach: Hm. No lisppaste notification. It's at http://paste.lisp.org/+2I9P 14:37:20 LMK if that helps. 14:37:36 I do not believe that there's a directive correlating to *d-p-d*. 14:37:57 But I haven't been using the DSL, because it doesn't fit the work pattern at my company. 14:39:07 rpg: for quicklisp I use a custom system search function that uses part of the filesystem as a lookup table. scanning hundreds of directories every time would be the pits. 14:39:53 rpg: That manual entry is a winner. Thanks for pasting. Clears up what I was confused about. 14:40:39 Xach: Thanks for asking. It's very hard to figure out when I'm being unclear describing how to use my own code... 14:41:41 rpg: Yeah. It can be hard to figure out how much context is shared and how much needs explaining... 14:41:56 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-201-214.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:42:29 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-100-106.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 14:42:30 Xach: It's interesting to me that the pattern of work I described in my email is unusual, since it seems like it would be fairly standard in more conventional s/w development. 14:42:40 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.50.170] has joined #lisp 14:43:08 -!- The_Fellow [~spider1@glida.mooo.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:44:05 syntard_ [~chatzilla@74.112.63.251] has joined #lisp 14:45:02 -!- Thorn [~Thorn@unaffiliated/thorn] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:48:02 tfb [~tfb@92.41.224.196.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:48:07 -!- benny [~benny@i577A1AC0.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:48:30 gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-24-219-89.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:48:53 -!- Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:49:09 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-100-106.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 14:49:10 benny [~benny@i577A3930.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 14:49:25 -!- pdo [~pdo@217.33.254.141] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:49:33 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:49:55 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-80-54.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 14:50:10 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-124-160.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:50:52 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has joined #lisp 14:51:26 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-66.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:53:18 -!- Harag [~user@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:54:14 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 14:57:06 jconrad_ [~jconrad@host86-145-189-120.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 14:59:40 -!- jconrad [~jconrad@host109-153-50-120.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:59:40 -!- jconrad_ is now known as jconrad 15:00:34 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 15:01:45 -!- Guthur [c0c1f50e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.193.245.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:04:17 *Xach* puts together http://imgur.com/LiMdN.jpg 15:05:19 :) 15:05:41 Is there any possible way a foreign funcall can be specified with the arguments in the wrong order and still work correctly? 15:06:02 -!- jconrad [~jconrad@host86-145-189-120.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:06:24 I'm doing a peculiar kind of debugging: the function works correctly (on one architecture) yet I see an error and I can't understand why it works. 15:07:02 LiamH: i'm sure the rabbit hole goes a bit deeper 15:07:30 jconrad [~jconrad@host109-153-55-138.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 15:08:08 jdz: yes, but not sure how/whether to go down it 15:09:03 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 15:10:22 p_l|uni [~pl@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 15:11:04 (trace SB-ALIEN:ALIEN-FUNCALL) gives me nothing, I guess this is inlined. 15:11:14 Xach: what happened to McCarthy's pupils... 15:12:18 BrianRice [~water@c-98-246-165-205.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:13:21 -!- fogus` [c6970d0f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.151.13.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:13:41 -!- felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:13:46 they are full of unearthly light 15:14:35 jconrad_ [~jconrad@host86-177-65-122.range86-177.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 15:15:28 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-mrlwkndzmyrmzmin] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:16:48 -!- jconrad [~jconrad@host109-153-55-138.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:16:48 -!- jconrad_ is now known as jconrad 15:17:44 tsuru [~charlie@adsl-179-28-67.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 15:20:06 craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 15:20:10 Hey guys 15:21:24 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:21:25 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-128-26.vologda.ru] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:21:26 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:21:27 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:21:27 -!- ASau [~user@89-178-188-64.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:21:27 -!- borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:21:28 -!- hdurer__ [~holly@home.sinclair-durer.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:21:28 -!- borism [~boris@ec2-79-125-58-77.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:21:29 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-67-242-194-233.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:21:29 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:21:30 -!- clog [nef@bespin.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:21:30 -!- xristos [~x@2001:470:8859:cafe:20c:29ff:fe47:788] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:21:31 -!- azuk [~user@2001:670:a3:20:218:f3ff:fe2e:485d] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:23:49 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:24:36 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 15:24:36 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-128-26.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 15:24:36 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 15:24:36 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 15:24:36 ASau [~user@89-178-188-64.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 15:24:36 borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 15:24:36 hdurer__ [~holly@home.sinclair-durer.net] has joined #lisp 15:24:36 borism [~boris@ec2-79-125-58-77.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 15:24:36 Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-67-242-194-233.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:24:36 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 15:24:36 clog [nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 15:24:36 xristos [~x@2001:470:8859:cafe:20c:29ff:fe47:788] has joined #lisp 15:24:36 azuk [~user@2001:670:a3:20:218:f3ff:fe2e:485d] has joined #lisp 15:24:55 yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 15:25:06 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:26:16 felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has joined #lisp 15:27:05 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 15:27:07 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 15:28:29 -!- vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-ykedghtbkicydcru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:28:55 vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-xleyiiynapvafmtg] has joined #lisp 15:29:47 milanj [~milanj_@178-223-148-178.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 15:29:48 I'm using the #S(...) read macro to generate some objects to compare to for the sake of unit-testing 15:30:05 sbcl throws a "don't know how to dump" at me 15:30:17 lispworks is fine with it 15:30:30 yvdriess: Can you be more specific about what it doesn't know how to dump? 15:30:41 felideon [~felideon@173.221.53.122.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 15:31:17 I have a (defvar *foo* (list #S(...) #S(...) ...)) and all structs are user-defined 15:31:40 jamief [~user@158.223.51.80] has joined #lisp 15:32:28 l1sp.org/cl/make-load-form-saving-slots 15:32:40 yvdriess: see 3.2.4.4 15:33:07 -!- marijnjh [~user@p5DDB218C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:35:01 bsod1 [~osa1@188.56.197.63] has joined #lisp 15:36:54 -!- craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:42:47 iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-150-188.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 15:45:01 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has joined #lisp 15:45:43 freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-111.vpn.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 15:45:54 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 15:47:41 so, if I get this right, I have to define a make-load-form using a straight forward make-load-form-saving-slots call for all my simple defstructs 15:48:01 and lispworks for some reason doens't try to dump the structs while sbcl does 15:48:24 why isn't there a default make-load-form for simple structs anyhow? 15:48:33 rme [~rme@pool-70-106-138-18.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:02 -!- mbohun [~user@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:51:38 yvdriess: I think the situation is that lispworks provides a default and sbcl doesn't. 15:52:05 seems more probable, indeed 15:53:30 -!- gz [gz@clozure-93943513.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout] 15:54:10 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4267288/is-there-a-better-way-to-get-the-nth-item-in-a-list <-- it's moved from irc to stackoverflow, apparently. 15:54:19 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:54:39 carlocci [~nes@93.37.217.168] has joined #lisp 15:55:33 antgreen [~user@nat/redhat/x-qfxpkgojmlxlluxm] has joined #lisp 15:55:39 how did he find nthcdr and not stumble upon nth? 15:55:43 that is rhetorical 15:56:19 Practice. 15:59:16 -!- kanru [~kanru@114-45-232-142.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:01:23 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:02:20 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-111.vpn.helsinki.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:03:44 -!- syntard_ [~chatzilla@74.112.63.251] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.12/20101026210630]] 16:05:57 pocket_ [~pocket_@p3080-ipbf3608hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:06:24 Hello 16:06:37 Does anyone using ClozureCL on MacOSX? 16:06:45 many are 16:06:52 Thanks. 16:07:22 Today I try to use #'and to list. Then I got an error 'Undefined Function'. 16:07:44 cl:and is a macro, not a regular function 16:07:46 and is a macro, not a function 16:07:57 !clhs and 16:08:05 Then how can I apply and to list? 16:08:07 yvdriess: you are right, no clhs 16:08:10 wasn't there a bit? :P 16:08:14 (lambda (a b) (and a b)) 16:08:20 s/bit/bot 16:08:24 Hmm... 16:08:30 Then you could reduce with that. :) 16:08:42 Or you could look for something like EVERY, iirc. 16:08:48 pocket_: You can't. If you want to find out if everything in a list is non-nil, you could use (every #'identity list) 16:09:01 yvdriess: that is not the syntax. 16:09:05 for reduce you'll probably need (lambda (&optional a b) (and a b)) because it needs 0 _or_ 2 arguments 16:09:13 Hmm.. 16:09:15 Thanks 16:09:21 yvdriess: or 1 16:09:54 yvdriess: when? 16:09:55 -!- felideon [~felideon@173.221.53.122.nw.nuvox.net] has left #lisp 16:09:56 err 16:09:59 jdz: when? 16:10:13 function---a designator for a function that might be called with either zero or two arguments. 16:10:27 stassats, yvdriess: yeah, i misread. sorry. 16:11:10 #lisp, home of OCD-level nitpicking 16:11:59 Thank you for all. I try to use (every #'identity lst) :) 16:12:08 Thank you very match. 16:12:35 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:12:50 -!- Jabberwockey [~jgrabarsk@selene.ftk.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:13:51 pocket_: please, no! 16:13:58 ? 16:14:10 pocket_: my OCD-level nitpicking cringes at a list named lst. Call it list! 16:14:15 -!- reav_ [~reav_@212.88.117.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:14:20 Ok 16:15:05 And When I want to check list about #'or for list? 16:15:23 freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn1-103.vpn.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 16:15:25 pocket_: cl:any 16:15:31 Hmm.. 16:15:39 pocket_: (some #'identity list) 16:15:39 (every #'any list)? 16:15:47 Hmmm 16:15:55 there is no cl:any 16:16:15 there is a cl:notany, though. 16:16:26 I recently wrote every-combination, some-combination, notany-combination based on alexandria:map-combination 16:17:16 (notany-combination #'eql :length 2) if you want to check that no item in list occurs twice 16:17:20 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:17:40 tcr: nice. 16:19:24 reav_ [~reav_@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 16:21:18 Wow 16:21:48 Xach: oops, that's cl:some 16:23:45 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:25:31 reduce's function is called with no arguments if it receives an empty list and no initial-value. it is mostly the case that you can skip this complexity (no args vs. 2 args) by always using an initial-value that is a neutral element for your operation (sum, multiply, or, and, etc.) 16:27:38 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@221.220.254.247] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:28:04 Aferlak12 [~Aferlak12@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 16:29:39 -!- Aferlak12 [~Aferlak12@64.120.233.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:29:45 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:30:05 -!- jerivard [~jerivard@c-69-181-250-45.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:33:33 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu255.queens.ox.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 16:35:40 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:37:50 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:42:20 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has joined #lisp 16:44:51 sabalaba [~sabalaba@221.220.254.247] has joined #lisp 16:45:39 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.56.197.63] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:47:16 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 16:47:26 Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050066111.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:48:20 konr [~user@187.106.38.106] has joined #lisp 16:48:28 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:49:26 La0fer [~Laofers1@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 16:50:30 -!- pocket_ [~pocket_@p3080-ipbf3608hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:53:06 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:53:15 -!- tfb [~tfb@92.41.224.196.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:54:51 entrosca [~entrosca@ip98-167-231-101.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:55:37 bsod1 [~osa1@188.56.197.63] has joined #lisp 16:56:51 syntard_ [~chatzilla@74.112.63.251] has joined #lisp 16:58:08 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.50.170] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:01:49 sellout [~greg@152.179.35.166] has joined #lisp 17:02:23 -!- netytan [~netytan@host81-141-55-224.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Quit: netytan] 17:02:42 nfrde [~nfrde@89-180-163-79.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 17:02:43 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@playboxgames.com] has left #lisp 17:03:40 Good evening everyone! 17:04:25 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host125-173-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:05:07 hi, where can i find functions about lists (create list of lists,...) ? I hava to do some searches about how to resolve a given sudoku 17:05:29 nfrde: LIST is a function that creates a list. 17:05:41 nfrde: you could create a list of lists by using (list (list 1 2 3) (list 3 4 5)) 17:05:58 nfrde: it doesn't seem like a list is a great data structure for that problem, though. 17:06:15 nfrde: or use (copy-list '((1 2 3) (3 4 5))) 17:06:58 jconrad_ [~jconrad@host109-153-54-19.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 17:07:07 dlowe: why bother with copy list? the inner lists would be literal, still... 17:07:30 yes, yes. COPY-TREE 17:07:33 -!- snorble [~snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:07:39 well, we receive a number with the dimensions of sudoku and a puzzle to solve 17:07:56 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:07:58 nfrde: is this a homework project? 17:08:14 Xach: yes 17:08:35 list of lists is a suggestion 17:08:53 -!- jconrad [~jconrad@host86-177-65-122.range86-177.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:08:53 -!- jconrad_ is now known as jconrad 17:08:58 blow their mind. Use a 2d array :p 17:09:28 -!- Evet [~Evet@unaffiliated/evet] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:11:00 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754272.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:11:22 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:12:49 -!- muhdik [~IceChat7@parkmobile-usa.oneringnetworks.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:12:56 Ah, i'm pretty sure nfrde is from my univ 17:14:00 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:15:01 where are you from? 17:15:16 portugal 17:15:59 I got a positive reply from Antonio regarding the release of Linj. Hopefully it will be available before too long. 17:16:14 nice 17:16:22 I could actually make use of it right now 17:16:23 tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour2-0-0-cust414.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 17:18:26 jconrad_ [~jconrad@host109-153-55-54.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 17:19:18 -!- jconrad [~jconrad@host109-153-54-19.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:19:18 -!- jconrad_ is now known as jconrad 17:21:56 Evet [~Evet@78.184.60.16] has joined #lisp 17:22:59 -!- splittist [~John@245-26.3-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has left #lisp 17:23:47 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-116-137.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:25:30 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 17:26:35 -!- reav_ [~reav_@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~] 17:26:58 -!- necroforest [~jarred@pool-108-18-226-169.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:30:35 nfrde: I agree with dlowe; use an array instead. 17:30:41 lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 17:31:36 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn1-103.vpn.helsinki.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 17:33:40 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 17:33:40 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour2-0-0-cust414.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:37:01 tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 17:38:16 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:40:45 redline6561 [~redline@75-94-194-245.gar.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined #lisp 17:41:43 nfrde: is a sudoku board a list? Or is it a 2d array? 17:42:13 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 17:42:58 -!- spcshpopr8tr is now known as spcshpopr8r 17:44:43 -!- spcshpopr8r [~user@c-71-231-165-31.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:44:44 Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 17:45:38 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.32.176.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:46:18 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp3255.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 17:46:19 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:47:26 -!- TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@124-171-208-8.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:49:26 -!- murilasso [~murilasso@189.103.20.140] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:51:15 gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 17:52:30 Krystof [~csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 17:54:04 murilasso [~murilasso@189.103.20.140] has joined #lisp 17:55:40 -!- nfrde [~nfrde@89-180-163-79.net.novis.pt] has quit [Quit: You will be honored for contributing your time and skill to a worthy cause.] 17:55:44 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:55:52 actually, for algorithm X-style backtracking, a double linked list might work better. 17:57:58 gameover__ [~googi@89.169.27.226] has joined #lisp 18:02:16 spcshpopr8r [~user@c-71-231-165-31.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:05:05 is sequence:remove-if known to be broken at the moment in sbcl? 18:05:22 seems to work in 1.0.42.56, but not now 18:08:00 jamief: broken and not working are awfully useless bug descriptions. 18:08:48 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:09:16 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:05 -!- SV_Nik [~ngkhatu@99-89-3-67.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:12:36 Dawgmatix [~dman@203.187.211.61] has joined #lisp 18:13:05 pkhuong_: indeed, sorry... http://paste.lisp.org/+2I9U 18:14:28 kraison [~kraison@70.90.182.149] has joined #lisp 18:15:41 SV_Nik [~ngkhatu@99.89.3.67] has joined #lisp 18:16:14 jamief: why are you using it? 18:16:19 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 18:16:40 Joreji [~thomas@67-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:16:56 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:17:30 snorble [~snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 18:17:33 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:17:34 I'm using a subclass of sequence for music data 18:18:20 -!- sellout [~greg@152.179.35.166] has quit [Quit: sellout] 18:18:29 basically a list with additional slots 18:21:13 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-158-125.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:21:21 and it's sequence:delete-if not working, and it does work when compiled with DEBUG 2 18:22:20 or rather with speed >= debug 18:22:36 rather doesn't work with speed >= debug 18:23:42 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 18:24:56 wakeup [~wakeup@koln-5d81ae0f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:24:59 hi 18:25:12 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 18:25:14 muhdik [~IceChat7@parkmobile-usa.oneringnetworks.net] has joined #lisp 18:25:26 and it's related to dynamic extent 18:25:28 does anyone here know how to get something readably out of clixdoc xml files? 18:25:31 it would have to be :-( 18:25:33 dynamic extent of closures 18:25:49 probably needs to go to a mailing list 18:25:56 also, whats wrong with weitz.de... 18:26:13 s 18:26:15 i'll try to distill a test-case 18:26:16 wakeup: weitz.de works fine for me. why do you ask? 18:26:25 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.35] has joined #lisp 18:26:51 -!- snorble [~snorble@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:27:38 Xach: try to get to the hunchentoot doc... 18:28:14 So, can we make the CL dictator transition on to Xach official? :-) 18:28:21 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 18:28:53 *rme* mutters "I didn't vote for 'im". 18:29:06 rme: vote? hah! 18:29:38 luis: better to give him regency while you enjoy the beach. 18:30:17 p_l|uni [~pl@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 18:31:42 wakeup: works fine 18:32:05 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-66-233.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:32:55 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178-223-148-178.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:38:06 milanj [~milanj_@93-86-189-104.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 18:41:01 *Xach* hopes tinaa is fixed shortly 18:44:15 bougyman [bougyman@pdpc/supporter/gold/bougyman] has joined #lisp 18:44:29 I see Xach is into hoping rather than dictating and oppressing. 18:44:43 cky [~cky@car.spillville.com] has joined #lisp 18:44:44 not a good sign, that 18:44:44 preyalone [4439b2f1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.57.178.241] has joined #lisp 18:45:25 let's pray that he doesn't hope to find broken glass in his beverages, or poison in his dinner, but takes a more proactive to these matters. 18:45:29 long live Xach! 18:46:10 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@203.187.211.61] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 18:46:43 Does Common Lisp have a main function that will only be called if the script is run directly? 18:47:28 preyalone: What script? 18:48:03 schmrkc: I mean something akin to Java's main(), or Python's if __name__==__main__ 18:48:21 preyalone: Nope. 18:48:50 schmrkc: Is there a way to emulate it? 18:49:11 Xach: I get this: error on line 2 at column 3: Char 0x0 out of allowed range 18:49:17 preyalone: I guess... (defun main () ....) (lotsa more code here) (main) ? 18:50:00 schmrkc: That's the idea. However, I don't want main to be called if the script is loaded by another script. 18:50:33 What's a script? 18:50:36 Does anyone have any links to fun examples of modifying the reader? 18:50:41 -!- peddie [~peddie@c-67-169-8-92.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:50:44 drdo: A .cl or .lisp file. 18:51:04 preyalone: What do you want to do exactly? 18:51:07 preyalone: in C, etc the main function is the entry point. this makes sense when you actually run just a binary. it makes less sense when you deal with a dynamic environment like CL. however, you can use main-function in CL in the same way of course; it is usually part of the delivery-functionality of your lisp. 18:51:50 hypno: I have an idea, need to run man clisp. 18:51:50 how can I make something setf'able? 18:51:51 preyalone: (eval-when (:execute) (main)) might work. That is not a common thing to do, though. 18:51:55 wakeup: defsetf 18:52:13 preyalone: You could make some ugly kludges to have that work, sure. But it's a shit idea. The idea of using CL for "scripts" seems wrong :) 18:52:19 preyalone: if, on the other hand, you do not want to deliver, but just want an entry point in your lisp application, any function will do: you just call your own defined start function. 18:52:39 wakeup: Or define-setf-expander. 18:52:51 hmm 18:52:56 schmrkc: That's why newLISP exists. 18:53:18 preyalone: What the heck is newLISP? 18:53:37 luis: Will execute be called for something like $ clisp myscript.cl, and/or inside some other script: (load "myscript")? 18:53:51 preyalone: ah. for clisp i usually just dump a new image and use that. you can invoke any function you want with that, and it works just like in anything else. 18:53:56 -!- Metal_zzzzz is now known as MetalDust] 18:53:59 -!- MetalDust] is now known as MetalDust 18:54:15 schmrkc: http://www.newlisp.org/ It's a general scripting Lispy language intended to fulfill the needs of Pythonistas, Rubyists, Perl monks, etc. 18:54:31 preyalone: so use that. CL is a bad match for what you seem to want to do. 18:55:05 schmrkc: I don't want to. For one thing, the best tutorials (PCL, etc.) use CL. 18:55:31 huh? why would CL be bad for executing scripts? 18:55:36 preyalone: if you load the .lisp file it will get executed, yeah. So it's probably not what you want. 18:55:51 hypno: That's not what I said. 18:56:05 preyalone: #!/usr/local/bin/clisp -q -E ISO-8859-1 -M site.mem, and then a new line and (my-main), provided that site.mem is your image. 18:56:15 all: If clisp -x calls (main), then I'm good to go. 18:56:21 doesn't clisp have an option to eval a form on load? 18:56:33 SBCL does at least 18:56:42 hypno: Sounds good, but I don't want to have to export an image every time I change my .cl file. 18:56:51 just do the dumb thing: clisp --help 18:57:18 preyalone: you do not have to. just write your code as you would in perl or anything else. 18:57:53 minion: chant 18:57:59 hypno: How do I create the .mem file? 18:58:07 :/ 18:58:34 preyalone: well, by reading the documentation and do what it says. didnt you just say you did not want to do that tho? 18:58:38 can anybody with a recent sbcl say what does (defun foo () (declare (optimize (speed 2))) (let ((c 0)) (flet ((bar () c)) (declare (dynamic-extent #'bar)) (do () ((list) (bar)) (setf c 10) (return (bar)))))) return? 18:58:56 stassats: FOO 18:59:10 schmrkc: very funny! 18:59:19 schmrkc: did you execute the function 18:59:27 i think he wants what (foo) returnsd 18:59:28 -d 18:59:30 schmrkc: cover it in parentheses and run it 18:59:32 stassats: actually it hits me with the debugger (: 18:59:49 *schmrkc* restarts a working sbcl 18:59:53 10 19:00:03 what version 19:00:04 ? 19:00:08 .39.15 19:00:13 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:00:14 that's not recent enough 19:00:24 I thought I pulled just yesterday. how strange. 19:00:53 i want at least 1.0.44.6 19:00:58 stassats: How recent? I get 10 on 1.0.43 x86-64. 19:01:13 HEAD is preferable 19:01:48 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-24-147-116-20.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:11 jamief: can you test it? 19:04:56 he's gone away 19:05:07 I have 1.0.44.29 19:05:21 * (foo) 19:05:21 -303730966 19:05:30 that's good (not really) 19:05:35 yeah 19:05:40 ok, posting to launchpad 19:05:53 sellout [~greg@71.175.25.141] has joined #lisp 19:06:03 What seems to be the problem? 19:06:07 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:06:18 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-24-147-116-20.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:06:22 recent work by nyef on dynamic-extent closures 19:06:32 I see. 19:06:44 luis: Your eval-when suggestion helps. http://pastebin.ca/2001218 There are two problems: CLISP hates #! when I (load) the file manually, and eval-when triggers (main) even when hello.cl is (load)ed by another script. 19:07:07 -!- MagBo [~Sweater@195.114.56.71] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:07:52 preyalone: maybe it's better to have three scripts: two that call and one that's called? 19:08:08 preyalone: one caller invokes main, the other doesn't 19:08:16 preyalone: This is where you need the ugly kludge. 19:08:39 syntard_: That is a solution, but I'd rather not write two run scripts for every .cl file I make. 19:09:45 preyalone: that's a silly problem if you have to do that for every file 19:10:36 preyalone: one such would be setting a variable that is checked by each .lisp's (main) so it knows if it should execute or not. 19:10:38 they .lisp, too 19:11:55 ch077179 [~urs@adsl-84-227-63-31.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 19:12:08 schmrkc: That's also a possibility. How could I check if the file is loaded directly or by another lisp file? 19:12:33 put (set-dispatch-macro-character #\# #\! (lambda (stream character n) (declare (ignore character n)) (read-line stream nil nil t) nil)) into clisprc? 19:12:53 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-66-207-56.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:12:57 stassats: I'll try. 19:13:32 stassats: I assume that goes in ~/.clisprc. 19:13:40 yes 19:13:55 cmm [~cmm@109.66.207.56] has joined #lisp 19:14:02 stassats: It's ~/.clisprc.lisp on my system (Mac OS X / MacPorts CLISP). 19:14:06 though, it does work for me without such things 19:14:06 preyalone: well if it's loaded directly then you start a new lisp image each time so the variable won't be set to whatever. But if each .lisp has something like (defvar herpderp t) (when herpderp (setf herpderp t & run dat main)) I figured it'd work when you (load) because the variable is then t when you (load) the next file. 19:14:22 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:14:42 preyalone: uh.. setf herpderp nil, obviously 19:15:02 preyalone: what clisp version? 19:15:03 preyalone: You will be going to hell for this. 19:15:05 *herpderp* 19:15:13 syntard_: that too (: 19:15:46 stassats: That did the trick for shebangs. 19:15:51 schmrkc: I'll try that. 19:15:55 :( 19:16:00 it works out of the box on 2.49 19:16:37 stassats: That's funny, I'm using v2.49. 19:16:52 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:17:12 Did your ~/.clisprc.lisp come with your shebang stuff automatically? 19:17:37 fogus` [c6970d0f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.151.13.15] has joined #lisp 19:17:49 no, (get-dispatch-macro-character #\# #\!) returns nil 19:18:21 stassats: How did you install CLISP? 19:18:25 And on which OS? 19:18:35 linux, from the repository 19:19:31 stassats: Which Linux? 19:19:39 32-bit 19:19:45 x86 19:20:05 (it doesn't really matter for that issue) 19:20:50 stassats: Which flavor? Ubuntu, Gentoo, Redhat...? 19:21:02 i won't tell you! 19:21:09 :( 19:21:46 How 'bout a hint: Which command installed CLISP for you? 19:22:07 it won't help solve you your problem 19:22:42 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.50.170] has joined #lisp 19:22:59 actually, i lied, i didn't test it properly 19:22:59 19:23:12 LOAD fails for me to, so ignore what has been said or not said 19:24:45 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:24:46 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.115.209.11] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:25:37 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-158-125.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: I'm big in Japan] 19:26:03 schmrkc: Your herpderp method's logic is flawed. The code will run (main) only the first time it is (load)ed. Not exactly what I want, which is to only run (main) if hello.cl is the only load, not simply the first load. 19:26:14 -!- lovesan [~lovesan@188.122.231.139] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:26:25 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:26:40 schmrkc: herpderp works for ./hello.cl, but it calls (main) when I do (load "hello"), which again, is not what I want. 19:27:39 preyalone: Well obviously if you do (load "hello") at the repl without setting the variable that is what will happen. 19:28:25 preyalone: try (unless (or *load-pathname* *compile-file-pathname*) (main)) 19:28:37 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.56.197.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:28:37 stassats: Oo! That might do it. 19:28:45 preyalone: I don't understand what you want. I thought you wanted to call clisp from some shell script and then have (main) eval. but if the loaded file then (load)ed (main) would not get evaled from other stuff. 19:28:50 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:06 it doesn't 19:29:25 schmrkc: I want a (main) equivalent to Python/Java/Haskell/Lua/Ruby/newLISP's main functionality. 19:29:29 it doesn't work with *load-pathname* 19:29:37 preyalone: That doesn't mean anything to me. 19:29:42 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.115.209.11] has joined #lisp 19:29:49 preyalone: just call (main) on the top level? 19:29:50 churib [~tg@dslc-082-082-126-031.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:06 jdz [~jdz@host192-106-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:30:14 preyalone: Can you explain in in bash and lisp terms? 19:31:05 dlowe: then it'll run when he (load)s the thing ;) 19:31:18 schmrkc: The desired functionality is that when $ clisp myfile.lisp or $ ./myfile.lisp is run, myfile calls (main). In no other circumstance should main be called. 19:31:44 preyalone: So what's wrong with what I gave ya then? seems right to me. 19:33:11 schmrkc: It's *almost* right. The problem is that this main-feature is called when the REPL or myotherfile.lisp calls (load "myfile"). This is not the desired behavior. 19:33:28 preyalone: of course that will happen. You need to set the variable in the repl. 19:34:06 schmrkc: Ah. Well, I want main to be called without the REPL. For example, by using $ ./myfile.lisp 19:34:20 yes. 19:34:41 I fail to see the problem. 19:34:54 The issue is that there's no portably defined difference between LOAD from the REPL and the loading that clisp does from the command line 19:35:12 so unless you're willing to give up a little, I think you're out of luck 19:35:12 dlowe: That's the crux of the problem. 19:35:39 clisp 19:35:46 > (setf *herpderp* nil) 19:35:52 > (load "sack.lisp") 19:35:53 ++ 19:36:03 The necessity of main-feature is so that a .lisp can be used as a CLI program *and* have its functions exportable to other lisp code as well. 19:36:32 preyalone: Just have another file that acts as your script-executable that imports your code 19:36:36 preyalone: This is why I'm saying you're trying to do things lisp is very bad for, and you're better of using something else. 19:36:45 loads. geez, too much cpython 19:37:25 dlowe: That would work, but I don't want to write an accompanying .lisp file for every normal .lisp I write. 19:37:41 dlowe: that's a nice one really. runner-script that loads and (main) :) 19:37:45 Has anyone here ever used Python's if __name__=="__main__" ? 19:37:49 preyalone: you need just one. 19:37:59 preyalone: yes. we don't have that. 19:38:02 (defvar *ignore-main* nil)(set-dispatch-macro-character #\# #\! (lambda (stream character n) (declare (ignore character n)) (read-line stream nil nil t) (setf *ignore-main* t) nil)) 19:38:03 preyalone: give it up 19:38:10 (unless (and (boundp '*ignore-main*) *ignore-main*) (main)) 19:38:52 preyalone: it's a pretty basic sh script. that's all. ask it to run clisp with loading that there.lisp and evaling (main) . 19:39:03 dlowe: I can't. I've witnessed the power of CL, and I don't want to go to newLISP just for this one little feature. 19:39:06 preyalone: and then you can go crazyness-with-lisp foo.lisp 19:39:19 preyalone: it's a stupid feature. that's all :) 19:39:59 #-preyalone-fickle-condition (main) 19:40:14 schmrkc: It's a necessary feature. If you want to write command line utilities, it's necessary. If you want to write real software, it's necessary. If you want to let non-lisp users use your software, it's necessary. 19:40:16 stassats: clisp supports #! out-of-the-box. 19:40:23 adeht: Har har. 19:40:35 preyalone: That's bullshit. 19:40:39 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 19:40:48 "if you want to write real software, its necessary" 19:41:21 luis: We talked about this. v2.49 does not, on my system (Mac OS X, MacPorts CLISP) or his. 19:41:45 luis: not for LOAD 19:41:46 urandom__ [~user@p548A5B59.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:41:46 *CLI* software. 19:41:53 adeht: should preyalone-fickle-condition go into *features* ? 19:42:13 yes 19:42:40 or better into *misfeatures* 19:43:16 stassats: So *ignore-main* should be set to nil in ~/.clisprc.lisp? 19:43:25 stassats: ah, right. 19:44:47 syntard_, adeht, cmm, et. all: This is precisely why the masses use other languages. Those languages may suck, but they come with necessary features. 19:44:53 preyalone: I didn't mean give up CL 19:45:00 on my debian system, even firefox is a shell-script. and firefox is very real software. just sayin' 19:45:00 dlowe: I wont. 19:45:37 preyalone: adeht was serious, it's another way to solve this (push :preyalone-ignore-main *features*), then #-preyalone-ignoremain (main) 19:45:39 preyalone: And that's why no one uses Java, C++, and C anymore? 19:46:25 preyalone: we don't care about "the masses" 19:46:30 stassats: It works! Thank you thank you thank you! 19:46:31 I see newLISP in preyalone's future 19:47:21 dlowe: Do you honestly believe that no one uses C/C++/Java anymore? Almost everything is built with them today. 19:47:35 preyalone: Now you just need to tell all your users to put that in .clisprc. good plan. 19:47:44 preyalone: and yet none of those have this "necessary" feature you describe 19:47:45 Aye. 19:48:02 dlowe: You can't build real software without it. Sorry :( 19:48:16 schmrkc: *sniff* I've been living a lie! 19:48:23 the cons is a lie! 19:48:58 dlowe: They all do. C, C++, and Java have exactly the main I described. 19:49:16 So do Python, Ruby, Lua, and even Haskell. 19:49:20 we need to inform PG so he can refund yahoo their money. 19:49:38 I said CLI software, schmrkc. 19:49:50 Not server software. 19:50:07 there's no problem writing CLI software in lisp. 19:50:09 preyalone: so I can include a C file that has a main() defined in my own program? Who knew 19:50:20 preyalone: oh, wait. I can't. 19:50:51 Is this an issue on my part: * (load "quicklisp.lisp") ==> ASDF could not load sb-bsd-sockets because Not an absolute pathname #P"~/.clc/systems/". 19:50:51 protip: if you use slime you can just do #-swank(main) 19:50:59 Or is this a quicklisp issue 19:51:03 dlowe: well... atleast C won't execute it automatically when you load it in the gcc repl :) 19:51:17 Quadrescence: it's an ASDF issue 19:51:56 *schmrkc* hands preyalone some apples and oranges. 19:51:56 stassats: hm I guess that'd make sense; I just reinstalled sbcl and removed the other. Maybe something isn't gone and should be 19:52:04 preyalone: most lisps will generate an executable for you and there you can specify your "main" function. Is that good enough? 19:52:46 Quadrescence: http://www.quicklisp.org/beta/release-notes.html 19:52:47 luis: That's interesting. 19:53:07 -!- Krystof [~csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:53:11 luis: He wants it to be so that (main) is only eval'd when you run the executable, but if that executable (load)s some other random .lisp that .lisp's (main) is not evaled. 19:53:40 stassats: oh goodie, thanks 19:53:53 i don't want ubuntu packaging my lisps ever again 19:53:53 schmrkc: the suspect he wants that because he doesn't know about ASDF or the like. 19:54:07 peddie [~peddie@c-67-169-8-107.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:26 or about this newfangled thing called "wrapper scripts" 19:54:37 preyalone: http://symbo1ics.com/blog/?p=275 19:54:39 or that the real men don't use scripts and launch everything from the REPL 19:54:55 preyalone: or if you prefer http://symbo1ics.com/blog/?p=8 19:55:05 preyalone: have a look at http://stackoverflow.com/questions/25046/lisp-executable/31332#31332 19:56:22 luis: That's a possibility. 19:57:33 good ol' X Y problem 19:58:08 dlowe: I double-checked. As long as main is not specified in a header file, it's possible. 19:58:34 preyalone: ODR violations ahead 19:59:30 oh boy 19:59:34 I'm just saying, you don't need to start a REPL to run ls, cat, less, cp, ssh, man, make, etc. 19:59:44 preyalone: how do you run them 19:59:56 $ somebinary 19:59:56 i usually start a repl called bash 20:00:20 preyalone: I think you'll find differently when you try to link it 20:00:27 Quadrescence: If you want to do so, that's fine. I'm sure the REPL affords you many benefits that Bash doesn't. 20:00:49 preyalone: i mean bash is my repl 20:00:53 dlowe: I just ran gcc on two C files and a header files. It works perfectly. 20:01:05 preyalone: make an executable out of them 20:01:21 preyalone: please. put main() {} in bar.c and foo.c and link the two object files. 20:02:16 preyalone: how do people run java executables? 20:02:34 schmrkc: Yes, then a problem occurs. But as long as the C file containing main is not linked, just its .H file, no problems. 20:02:42 i believe they run a java repl without a repl 20:02:51 Quadrescence: As JARs, sometimes from the command line. 20:02:52 dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-66.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 20:02:54 preyalone: So how are those apples and oranges I gave you coming along? 20:03:07 schmrkc: if the C file containing main isn't linked, you aren't getting any of the code of that file 20:03:13 schmrkc: oops, sorry 20:03:39 in any case, this is one of the dumbest problems I've ever heard of someone having with lisp. 20:04:03 it's especially dumb because the person having it isn't dumb, just stubborn 20:04:16 dlowe: That's why newLISP exists: Because in some ways, CL and Scheme are dumb. 20:04:34 preyalone: enjoy your newLISP. Alone. 20:04:34 -!- preyalone [4439b2f1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.57.178.241] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:04:35 preyalone: CL is dumb in a lot of ways. 20:04:38 *adeht* facepalms. time to do something else 20:04:44 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.35] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:05:12 I guess preyalone thought the same 20:05:32 get money get paid 20:05:34 that's what i say 20:05:47 Quadrescence: tautology? 20:05:59 ;) 20:06:13 <[df]> not necessarily 20:06:33 I call XY problem. 20:06:35 but oh well. 20:07:44 maybe a land of lisp problem 20:08:42 schmrkc: chromosomes? 20:08:55 XXY problem then (: 20:09:40 stassats: person wants to get X happening and is hellbent on Y being the proper way of doing it. 20:09:46 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:10:09 hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 20:10:21 schmrkc: two X chromosomes? sounds like a chromosomal disorder 20:10:48 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:11:02 (it's called Klinefelter's syndrome) 20:11:36 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-128-26.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:12:44 bsod1 [~osa1@188.56.170.13] has joined #lisp 20:13:26 syndromes are never good :( 20:14:14 I wonder what is up with this random "I read lisp is the best thing since sliced bread, and now I have been using it for several days and it is total magic and I need to use it for everything because its the best" 20:14:22 except smug lisp weenie syndrome 20:14:33 -!- xan_ [~xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:15:00 ehehehe 20:15:26 -!- jdz [~jdz@host192-106-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:15:37 schmrkc: it's the best except for this one thing which you say is trivial but that I can absolutely not live without 20:16:05 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-128-26.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 20:16:35 (: 20:17:41 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 20:17:45 -!- gameover__ [~googi@89.169.27.226] has left #lisp 20:17:47 i thought so about English too, it was great but i couldn't write it using Cyrillic 20:17:59 I guess one could redefine LOAD to filter out (main) 20:18:13 I need to occupy my amazing brain power with something else. 20:18:33 gemelen_ [~shelta@shpd-92-101-128-26.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 20:18:42 schmrkc: i actually gave him a solution and he said that it works 20:18:56 stassats: excellent. 20:19:50 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:20:04 faux [~user@c-219c70d5.035-128-67626713.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:20:07 -!- gemelen_ [~shelta@shpd-92-101-128-26.vologda.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 20:20:17 *schmrkc* adds smug lisp weenie to his CV. 20:20:20 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 20:20:43 if you have something else in it, you're not smug enough 20:20:57 ah. 20:21:04 damn :( 20:21:14 nothing else computer related I guess :) 20:24:08 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 20:26:20 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.235.211] has joined #lisp 20:26:41 -!- hdurer__ [~holly@home.sinclair-durer.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:26:41 hdurer__ [~holly@pdpc/supporter/active/hdurer] has joined #lisp 20:29:18 netytan [~netytan@host81-141-55-255.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 20:31:01 -!- jweiss_ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:32:54 jweiss_ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:33:54 netytan_ [~netytan@host86-175-234-22.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 20:34:23 what are the best approaches to minimize the need for control structures? 20:35:34 syntard_: learn as many built-in functions as you can 20:36:04 Isn't the nice thing about Lisp that you can make your own control structures? 20:36:15 but i can learn more, but there isn't more! 20:36:41 ok, to avoid spaghetti code 20:36:42 syntard_: often something you think needs a control structure can be done with a built-in function + some keywords like :test, :key, :start, or :end 20:36:48 -!- netytan [~netytan@host81-141-55-255.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:36:48 -!- netytan_ is now known as netytan 20:36:49 -!- churib [~tg@dslc-082-082-126-031.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:37:03 dlowe: yes, nice 20:37:29 syntard: Control _structure_ it's kind of the antonym of spaghetti code 20:37:35 dod0 [~dod0@173-167-3-113-michigan.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:47 I'm still contemplating this blogged idea that you should only have one flow control form per function 20:38:12 tcr: ok, another nice idea, have structure to control 20:38:35 dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:38:36 Sorry you don't make sense to me 20:38:40 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 20:38:44 syntard_: your question probably boils down to "how do I write good programs?" 20:38:53 and there's no silver bullet 20:39:15 ^ 20:39:46 but there is Lisp 20:39:56 ok, silver bullet 20:42:56 -!- dod0 [~dod0@173-167-3-113-michigan.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:43:24 that just allows us to make bigger and better guns :p 20:44:20 Is there some automatic documentation generation tool for Lisp? 20:44:35 -!- novaburst [~novaburst@sourcemage/mage/novaburst] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:45:08 peterhil: tinaa, may be broken in quicklisp, may be broken in darcs, but I made it work for me 20:45:08 hi, I'm sending a string "(format t \"foo~%\")" over a socket which uses READ-LINE on the other end. It catches two lines as "(format t \"foo" and "\")". Any clues as to why the string "~%" gets treated as a newline or how to properly escape it? When I read a file with "~%" in it, it isn't treated as a newline. 20:45:19 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 20:45:32 no offence, for an intermediate vim user, does it make sense to switch to emacs with slime to try out common lisp? 20:45:32 syntard_: Thanks, I'll check it out 20:45:39 peterhil: many, and they all suck 20:45:41 egn: ~~% 20:45:46 ok :-) 20:46:15 stassats: thanks 20:46:17 or just don't use FORMAT for sending it 20:46:26 ch077179: i did, and didn't regret it 20:46:27 mstevens_ [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has joined #lisp 20:47:28 stassats: sorry, clarification: FORMAT was part of the string it was sending, it didn't get evaluated 20:47:51 how did you send it? 20:48:21 -!- Avisch [~Avisch@70-101-99-64.dsl1-field.roc.ny.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:48:22 jweiss_, I am probably not going to code a lot in the future, I just want to explore lisp along the book 'practical common lisp' 20:48:48 -!- netytan [~netytan@host86-175-234-22.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Quit: netytan] 20:49:04 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:49:19 ch077179: i only knew vim when i started, and i struggled mightily to use it w lisp. i had to give up and switched to emacs. emacs and lisp go together perfectly. 20:49:20 (format (client-stream client) (format nil "~a~%" the-string)) (force-output (client-stream client)) 20:49:34 ah. 20:49:39 now i don't even use vim anymore 20:49:43 ch077179: nobody died so far from learning something new 20:50:02 stassats: what about cat? 20:50:12 it wasn't too painful, and i didn't even use viper mode (vi keybinding for emacs) 20:50:33 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.115.209.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:50:40 once you learn a small set of editing and help commands and write them on a cheat sheet, you're set 20:50:48 egn: try using print instead 20:51:36 stassats: print to the stream? 20:51:48 yes, (print string stream) 20:51:52 okay 20:52:03 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.173.214] has joined #lisp 20:52:15 hi 20:52:28 or better, use write-line 20:52:37 it won't print quotes around the string 20:52:52 I would like to count the number of facts containing a specific pattern is that possible ? 20:53:25 if only you told us what facts and patterns are 20:53:43 Avisch [~Avisch@70-101-99-64.dsl1-field.roc.ny.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 20:53:53 -!- redline6561 [~redline@75-94-194-245.gar.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:53:58 for example I got a plant so (plant my) 20:53:58 i added (:tree "~/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/") to commo(:tree "~/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/")n-lisp/source-registry-conf.d/asds.conf to find gtkglext system which is in cl-gtk2 but is not defined in quicklisp as a system, but i can't load with (asdf:load-system :cl-gtk2-gtkglext) 20:54:02 stassats: yep, that worked. thanks. 20:54:32 pierrep: what language are you talking about? 20:54:46 and after I decide that my plant resist cold and like wet-soil (wet-soil my) (cold-resist my) 20:54:49 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-124-36.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:55:01 stassats, lips but there is no such channel .. 20:55:12 clips 20:55:15 what you're saying doesn't make any sense to me 20:55:25 sorry, the "commo(:tree "~/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/")n-lisp/source-registry-conf.d/asds.conf" part should be "common-lisp/source-registry-conf.d/asds.conf" 20:55:36 pierrep: well, that's completely different language, sorry 20:55:51 stassats, okay thanks you anyway 20:55:59 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:56:50 netytan [~netytan@host86-175-234-22.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 20:56:59 -!- netytan [~netytan@host86-175-234-22.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20:57:29 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has left #lisp 20:58:05 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-24-147-116-20.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:58:44 -!- peddie [~peddie@c-67-169-8-107.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: peace!] 20:59:02 peddie [~peddie@c-67-169-8-107.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:00:22 -!- peddie [~peddie@c-67-169-8-107.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:00:40 peddie [~peddie@XVM-107.MIT.EDU] has joined #lisp 21:00:50 -!- Avisch [~Avisch@70-101-99-64.dsl1-field.roc.ny.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:01:50 francogrex [~user@109.130.92.173] has joined #lisp 21:02:35 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:03:35 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 21:07:14 -!- fogus` [c6970d0f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.151.13.15] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:09:17 mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has joined #lisp 21:09:18 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has quit [Changing host] 21:09:18 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 21:11:08 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-244-48.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:12:15 -!- Evet [~Evet@78.184.60.16] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:12:21 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-201-47.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:12:38 -!- mstevens_ [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:16:09 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 21:18:27 netytan [~netytan@host86-175-234-22.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 21:20:21 billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:38 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:24:03 craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 21:24:06 hey guys 21:24:51 craiggles: hello 21:27:30 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 21:28:32 -!- sellout [~greg@71.175.25.141] has quit [Quit: sellout] 21:29:00 coliv [45bff130@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.191.241.48] has joined #lisp 21:32:38 ZabaQ [~Zaba@host81-154-125-220.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:34:00 -!- fred-o [~user@c-cce070d5.017-8-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:34:30 Hurray, I'm unemployed. Lots of lisp hacking time ahead..! 21:34:36 -!- antgreen [~user@nat/redhat/x-qfxpkgojmlxlluxm] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:35:34 s0ber_ [~s0ber@111-240-219-180.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:35:55 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-201-47.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:36:17 ZabaQ: congratulations! 21:36:22 -!- wakeup [~wakeup@koln-5d81ae0f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:36:25 hacks and glory await 21:37:38 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-219-43.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:37:44 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 21:38:00 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:44:13 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:46:35 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:51:07 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:51:12 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-47.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:52:35 -!- muhdik [~IceChat7@parkmobile-usa.oneringnetworks.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:53:31 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:55:20 in (format t "~1,,'|,3,:@d" 123456789) ---> +123|456|789 what can the 2 arg (pad-char) be what does it do? 21:56:26 i'm not understand your 21:56:27 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754272.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:56:29 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:57:36 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:59:02 -!- Joreji [~thomas@67-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:59:37 the 2nd argument/directive "~1,?,... of the above format? 22:00:54 it pads the number if it's shorter than specified in the first argument 22:00:58 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.50.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:01:20 (format t "~5,'xd" 10) => xxx10 22:01:23 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:02:21 there is this thing called clhs, some say it's useful 22:02:26 http://l1sp.org/cl/22.3.2.2 22:03:16 Joreji [~thomas@67-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 22:03:59 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:04:57 netytan_ [~netytan@host81-141-55-238.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 22:05:04 -!- netytan_ [~netytan@host81-141-55-238.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:05:47 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:06:30 it doesn't help because it doesn't give example of padchar 22:06:50 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 22:06:55 adding a character above doesn't do what is expected 22:07:02 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl12-81-192.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 22:07:13 what did you expect it to do? 22:07:34 what is a pad-char supposed to do? 22:07:35 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Client Quit] 22:07:38 -!- netytan [~netytan@host86-175-234-22.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:07:45 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-24-147-116-20.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:07:51 i just told you 22:08:55 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 22:08:59 and it's clearly stated in the above link 22:09:43 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:10:45 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A5B59.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:10:53 ok my bad (format t "~20, 'x,'|,3,:@d" 123456789) i was leaving a space between the comma and the 'x 22:13:33 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has left #lisp 22:13:53 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93-86-189-104.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:14:28 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-66-233.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo] 22:16:10 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:17:13 -!- syntard [~chatzilla@204.51.92.251] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 22:18:57 syntard [~chatzilla@204.51.92.251] has joined #lisp 22:19:34 -!- sixpoint8 [~jaykub@ip68-12-204-131.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: >_>] 22:20:41 -!- faux [~user@c-219c70d5.035-128-67626713.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:21:10 limetree [~user@c-0be9e155.1226-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 22:21:38 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:24:04 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 22:24:05 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.35] has joined #lisp 22:25:47 -!- entrosca [~entrosca@ip98-167-231-101.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:26:17 entrosca [~entrosca@ip98-167-231-101.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:27:06 I'm a bit confused about symbols. For instance, in defpackage forms: sometimes I see #:symbol being used, sometimes just :symbol (or even just symbol). 22:27:16 I don't understand the meaning behind it. 22:27:30 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:27:37 <|3b|> SYMBOL by itself is interned into the current package when READ 22:27:45 <|3b|> :SYMBOL is interned into the KEYWORD packager 22:28:02 <|3b|> #:SYMBOL is not interned into any package 22:29:17 <|3b|> some people prefer the last, since the symbol is only being used for its name in defpackage, and there is no reason to intern it 22:29:38 So it's cleaner, in a sense. 22:29:42 <|3b|> right 22:29:45 limetree: defpackage doesn't take symbols, but symbol name designators. Symbol names are strings. String designators are either strings, or symbols whose name stand for the string. 22:30:39 limetree: so you want to avoid using normal symbols in defpackage forms, because they'd be interned in the current package, and when you'd (use-package :that-package), you would get symbol name collisions. 22:30:51 limetree: hence the use of keyword, uninterned symbols, or strings. 22:31:10 so I could do (defpackage "my-package" ...) just as well, and that would be as clean as #:my-package. 22:31:11 *|3b|* thinks not using USE-PACKAGE is a better solution to that problem :p 22:31:45 limetree: it has to be (defpackage "MY-PACKAGE" ...) 22:31:46 I prefer strings, but because of some non-standard extensions, some people prefer to use keywords or non-interned symbols as string designators. 22:32:02 symbols are designators for their upper-case name, in a standard read case setting 22:32:08 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.56.170.13] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:32:10 limetree: that would be (defpackage "MY-PACKAGE" ...) if you want to be able to write (use-package :my-package). 22:32:13 pjb: but you write source code in all-caps, too (: 22:32:33 antifuchs: actually no. I use an emacs command, upcase-lisp, to set it all upcase. 22:32:49 yeah... 22:32:52 antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 22:32:54 *antifuchs* backs away slowly 22:33:14 antifuchs: the problem may actually be a question of fonts. There are fonts that have very nice uppercase letters, and others were it'd be unbearable. 22:33:58 I've only seen the latter (: 22:34:00 does asdf2 look for subdirs 1 level or recursively when i (:tree "~/something/something/") to conf file 22:34:10 all-caps code reminds me of US contracts (: 22:34:37 or good old mainframes, FORTRAN IV, COBOL, punch cards, etc. :-) 22:34:51 -!- antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:35:10 you have to pay close attention while something is screaming at you (-: 22:35:30 in this regard, I imagine writing code on old machines was similar to parenting (: 22:35:37 **SCREAMING** VS. NOT SCREAMING. ;-) 22:35:51 SCREAMING WITH EARMUFFS ON 22:35:54 (-: 22:36:08 Well, those are all new conventions. 22:36:21 1967 is pretty new... 22:36:32 antifuchs: your smileys are oriented inwards :-) 22:36:38 it should be searching the whole tree recursively however i can't load a system inside the tree 22:36:42 antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 22:36:51 -!- iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-150-188.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:37:17 kenanb: "~/.." will only work on very very recent versions of sbcl and on allegro CL, if I recall correctly 22:37:25 kenanb: other impls won't expand ~ to /your/homedir 22:37:35 clisp does. 22:37:40 ah 22:38:06 kenanb: to be safe, try using the full pathname instead of ~ there 22:38:15 i use sbcl 1.0.44 but i'll try that 22:38:22 #P"~/../" 22:38:41 1.0.44 doesn't expand ~, I've run into that. 22:38:43 -!- housel [~user@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:38:47 yeah, it should be in the next release (or current cvs) 22:38:47 -!- coliv [45bff130@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.191.241.48] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:39:06 I believe it was committed last week (: 22:39:38 pjb: upcase-lisp leaves strings and characters alone? 22:40:58 can't find it 22:41:15 Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 22:43:41 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:45:37 still nothing 22:46:09 how can i know that asdf really sees that conf file 22:46:30 might quicklisp change asdf options? 22:47:03 kenanb: asdf:*central-registry* ? 22:47:07 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-218-150.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:48:27 does asdf add the search paths that defined in .conf file to *central-registry*? 22:48:59 i thought *central-registry* is just for backwards compability purposes anymore 22:50:24 kenanb: it should appear there, for that same backwards compatibility 22:51:34 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:51:55 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 22:52:51 kenanb: ok never mind, I'm wrong 22:54:23 entropi [~entrosca@ip98-167-231-101.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:43 -!- jconrad [~jconrad@host109-153-55-54.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:56:22 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:56:44 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 22:56:51 jconrad [~jconrad@host109-152-178-81.range109-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 22:57:04 -!- entrosca [~entrosca@ip98-167-231-101.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:57:14 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.235.211] has left #lisp 22:57:40 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:59:21 jconrad_ [~jconrad@host109-153-52-61.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 22:59:56 -!- entropi [~entrosca@ip98-167-231-101.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:59:59 -!- ch077179 [~urs@adsl-84-227-63-31.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:00:40 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:01:28 -!- jconrad [~jconrad@host109-152-178-81.range109-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:01:28 -!- jconrad_ is now known as jconrad 23:02:22 entrosca [~entrosca@ip98-167-231-101.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:02:24 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 23:03:21 -!- syntard_ [~chatzilla@74.112.63.251] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.12/20101026210630]] 23:04:08 -!- antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:04:56 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:05:28 antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 23:05:58 Hm...I have a ^M in a string. Which is I think a newline in a different enconding. How do I make that a real newline? 23:06:35 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-218-150.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:07:31 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050066111.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:07:37 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:09:39 -!- limetree [~user@c-0be9e155.1226-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:10:02 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:14:23 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.92.173] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:15:26 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-47.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 23:16:50 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 23:17:55 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 23:24:54 Avisch [~Avisch@cpe-24-93-16-141.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:27:52 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:27:53 c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:31:10 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@host81-154-125-220.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has left #lisp 23:32:20 ZabaQ [~Zaba@host81-154-125-220.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 23:32:32 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@host81-154-125-220.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has left #lisp 23:35:38 kanru [~kanru@114-45-232-142.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 23:36:15 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:37:27 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 23:38:05 -!- jconrad [~jconrad@host109-153-52-61.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: jconrad] 23:38:27 jconrad [~jconrad@host109-153-52-61.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 23:38:51 gonzojive_ [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:41:19 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:42:26 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@218.82.57.220] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:42:43 -!- jconrad [~jconrad@host109-153-52-61.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:43:22 s1gma_ [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 23:44:10 -!- s1gma_ [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 23:44:33 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:44:37 s1gma_ [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 23:45:03 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp3255.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: A subtle thought that is in error may yet give rise to fruitful inquiry that can establish truths of great value.] 23:46:47 -!- s1gma_ [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:47:24 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:48:13 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu255.queens.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:48:41 CharlesBucket [~CharlesBu@dsl-pool6-52.jamadots.com] has joined #lisp 23:48:56 Hello 23:49:10 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 23:49:37 Anyone alive here? 23:49:40 CharlesBucket: Hi. 23:49:44 It's pretty dead right now. 23:49:49 CharlesBucket: No Lisp is dead 23:49:51 cYmen, yeah I noticed that 23:50:04 xan_ [~xan@26.Red-88-24-228.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:50:04 tcr time for a resurrection 23:51:16 I am interested in Lisp, but only know C++. i have yet to find a practical tutorial for Lisp for a complete layman like myself 23:51:38 Practical Common Lisp 23:51:39 CharlesBucket: http://gigamonkeys.com/book/ 23:52:03 is that on ebook? Or would i have to order it? 23:52:30 It's published by APress, but it's available for free on that link 23:52:32 It is available online, however as the author frequents this channel we usually like to see people to order it 23:53:07 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:54:02 Okay, I will give it a look. Is there anyone here that started with this? 23:54:26 Many I guess 23:55:56 Okay, thanks for the tip. I'll let you know how it goes ;) 23:56:30 Sure 23:56:38 -!- CharlesBucket [~CharlesBu@dsl-pool6-52.jamadots.com] has left #lisp 23:57:29 i find irc bots to be a great learning project, after reading some more practical common lisp would you agree i should make a simle irc bot? 23:58:54 If you find it fun to make irc bots, then do it, why would you need anyone's approval? :)