00:00:00 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:00:04 [Derek] [~derek@205.185.113.254] has joined #lisp 00:00:04 -!- [Derek] [~derek@205.185.113.254] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:01:16 -!- _6502_ [5e24ed3a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.36.237.58] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:02:05 [Derek] [~derek@205.185.113.254] has joined #lisp 00:02:05 -!- [Derek] [~derek@205.185.113.254] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:03:23 ah ok 00:03:55 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:56 i put (export '*row-separator*) in gsd foreign-array.lisp for the grid package 00:03:59 now it works 00:04:30 someone should just tell the maintainer 00:07:41 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:09:20 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.32] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:11:31 why shouldn't it be you, homie? 00:12:12 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@host81-154-125-220.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:12:25 It's a bug in gsll? liamh is in here last I checked <_< 00:12:58 Zhivago [~zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 00:13:26 wuj [~wuj@pool-74-101-71-212.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:15:23 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:18:06 [Derek] [~derek@205.185.113.254] has joined #lisp 00:18:06 -!- [Derek] [~derek@205.185.113.254] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:18:10 -!- sdsds is now known as OrginialBadName 00:18:14 done 00:18:28 oh here ? 00:18:36 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-66.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:18:40 nope 00:18:44 he's gone 00:19:07 never mind, email is sent already 00:19:53 -!- OrginialBadName is now known as Heartless 00:23:02 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.58.222] has joined #lisp 00:23:11 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:23:38 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu282.queens.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:24:23 -!- Heartless is now known as sdsds 00:25:22 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@80.213.172.190] has quit [Quit: A subtle thought that is in error may yet give rise to fruitful inquiry that can establish truths of great value.] 00:28:36 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:29:29 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 00:31:48 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:32:57 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.212.155] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 00:39:26 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 00:40:23 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:40:23 jga [~gajon@189.135.58.207] has joined #lisp 00:41:04 -!- katesmith is now known as lipofuze 00:41:10 Should two NaN values be similar as constants? 00:42:23 hmm? 00:43:34 <|3b|> i thought NaN were always different? 00:44:30 under numeric equality, NaN always compare false. 00:45:04 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.52.89] has joined #lisp 00:45:06 Under raw value equality, NaN may or may not compare false: there are loads of values which are NaN in IEEE floats. 00:45:17 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 00:46:01 -!- dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:46:13 *|3b|* wouldn't expect different NaNs to be coalesced, but could see having defconstant allow redefinition with an identical NaN being useful, if either of those are what you meant 00:46:40 Given a file containing (defconstant double-float-nan (make-a-nan)), it seems like you'd like defconstant not to complain if you load the file again 00:47:36 <|3b|> assuming (make-a-nan) always returns a bitwise identical NaN, that seems reasonable 00:47:55 *Fade* wonders if anything ever became of Mikel Evins' opensource SK8 project 00:48:13 which CL comparison function does that, though? 00:48:24 *|3b|* would be happy to just have compilers not break on NaNs though :p 00:48:34 Does eql check numbers by their bit patterns and = do float comparison? 00:48:49 jconrad_ [~jconrad@host109-152-178-186.range109-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 00:48:50 <|3b|> well, CL doesn't have NaNs, does it? 00:48:59 not as such... 00:50:31 <|3b|> i would probably accept having it complain though, since i'd expect NaN to not be =, EQL, EQUAL, or EQUALP to itself, and it would be sort of odd to have it be EQ in that case 00:50:49 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p54839B74.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:51:08 -!- Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:51:23 -!- jconrad [~jconrad@host86-163-17-239.range86-163.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:51:23 -!- jconrad_ is now known as jconrad 00:52:34 well, in sbcl, (eql nan nan) => t, while (= nan nan) => nil 00:53:34 <|3b|> yeah, having them eql/equal might be reasonable too 00:54:14 -!- lipofuze [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:54:24 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:54:32 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.60.128] has joined #lisp 00:54:40 katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-209-215.dhcp.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 00:54:40 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-209-215.dhcp.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 00:54:40 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 00:55:51 I think it follows logically from the behavior for signed zeros. 00:56:03 "= differs from eql in that (= 0.0 -0.0) is always true, because = compares the mathematical values of its operands, whereas eql compares the representational values, so to speak. " 00:56:34 gadek [~konrad@62.121.148.46] has joined #lisp 00:57:09 <|3b|> ah, didn't think to check the page for = 00:57:15 I agree; NaNs with the same bit pattern should be EQL. 00:58:49 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Quit:] 00:59:06 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.52.89] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:59:32 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.52.89] has joined #lisp 01:01:33 -!- psilord2 [~psilord@adsl-76-204-103-52.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 01:03:13 [Derek] [~derek@205.185.113.254] has joined #lisp 01:03:13 -!- [Derek] [~derek@205.185.113.254] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:04:06 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-183-67.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:04:14 -!- jdz [~jdz@host175-109-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:04:29 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 01:05:47 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-104-154.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:10:12 [Derek] [~derek@205.185.113.254] has joined #lisp 01:10:12 -!- [Derek] [~derek@205.185.113.254] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:11:20 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:11:39 -!- craiggles [~craig@host81-141-118-214.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:14:22 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 01:14:41 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:15:02 kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has joined #lisp 01:15:16 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 01:16:00 necroforest [~jarred@pool-108-18-226-169.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:16:21 jdz [~jdz@host124-16-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 01:16:25 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:17:17 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 01:17:26 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-0-111.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:17:44 [Derek] [~derek@205.185.113.254] has joined #lisp 01:17:44 -!- [Derek] [~derek@205.185.113.254] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:21:44 [Derek] [~derek@205.185.113.254] has joined #lisp 01:21:44 -!- [Derek] [~derek@205.185.113.254] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:23:24 iwillig [~ivan@ool-18b944f4.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:24:28 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:25:55 does common lisp have a built in "flatten" function? i.e. (flatten '(1 2 (3 4) (5 (6)))) => (1 2 3 4 5 6) 01:28:17 -!- iwillig [~ivan@ool-18b944f4.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:28:53 idk if one's built in, but a quick google gave this: 01:28:54 http://cogsci.uwaterloo.ca/CoherenceCode/COHERE/utilities.lisp.html 01:28:58 (last function) 01:30:22 yeah it's pretty easy to write, i just didn't want to re-write something that's in the standard library 01:30:44 mm 01:30:52 yeah, i'm still learning the libraries myself 01:30:58 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 01:31:19 abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:31:30 lemi check my book... 01:32:25 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-232-206.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:32:47 -!- ejohnson [~elliott@elliottjohnson.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:33:16 Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 01:33:26 <|3b|> you could use alexandria:flatten 01:33:40 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.52.89] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:34:12 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 01:34:33 <|3b|> not quite built in, but it is at least one of the more common utility libraries 01:35:05 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 01:35:37 necroforest: hm, if you were wanting to go the other way w/ it i'd suggest destructuring-bind (if u could use a macro in ur application) 01:36:11 |3b|: hmm... you're evaluated? :) 01:36:57 _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has joined #lisp 01:37:08 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has left #lisp 01:37:47 [Derek] [~derek@205.185.113.254] has joined #lisp 01:37:47 -!- [Derek] [~derek@205.185.113.254] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:38:03 -!- jweiss_ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 01:38:52 -!- jga [~gajon@189.135.58.207] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:40:47 [Derek] [~derek@205.185.113.254] has joined #lisp 01:40:47 -!- [Derek] [~derek@205.185.113.254] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:41:16 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-124-160.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:41:17 spratt`` [~user@CPE0014bf3f85af-CM00080d79b684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 01:42:57 ejohnson [~elliott@elliottjohnson.net] has joined #lisp 01:43:07 -!- spratt` [~user@CPE0014bf3f85af-CM00080d79b684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:49:42 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 01:50:17 [Derek] [~derek@205.185.113.254] has joined #lisp 01:50:17 -!- [Derek] [~derek@205.185.113.254] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:51:39 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-218-150.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:52:50 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:52:55 gah, glfw's lisp implementation is somehow buggy on my keys, the gears.lisp example won't zoom in or out 01:53:31 i tried everything, from making that #\Z char to #\z or '#\Z or :#\Z etc... 01:54:47 [Derek] [~derek@205.185.113.254] has joined #lisp 01:54:47 -!- [Derek] [~derek@205.185.113.254] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:54:47 <|3b|> are you sure it is a character and not a number? 01:55:21 (case key) it is a key 01:55:28 character 01:55:33 -!- ejohnson [~elliott@elliottjohnson.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:55:46 so when you press Z it should check for when shift was pressed too 01:56:00 and either then increase on the Z plane or not 01:56:06 or decrease i mean 01:57:08 -!- boysetsfrog [~nathan@123-243-214-176.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:57:42 i have the same problem in cmucl as in sbcl, sbcl is just not responsive to that key, and in cmucl it is more buggy, it just throws me to the debugger on any key 01:57:47 <|3b|> is Z the key next to the left shift key? 01:57:48 sabalaba [~sabalaba@123.120.133.209] has joined #lisp 01:57:54 no 01:58:01 <|3b|> does that key work there? 01:58:08 i have a logitech keyboard with german layout 01:58:35 ah 01:58:39 jconrad_ [~jconrad@host109-152-178-102.range109-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 01:58:41 i think i found the confusion now 01:58:48 my xorg.conf has pc105 layout 01:58:56 yet my kde is on logitech-generic layout 01:59:10 homie: right, these programs often work with scan codes. 01:59:26 yep i think i have to adapt my xorg.conf 02:00:05 skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #lisp 02:00:58 -!- jconrad [~jconrad@host109-152-178-186.range109-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:00:58 -!- jconrad_ is now known as jconrad 02:02:03 *|3b|* has no idea how to fix X input stuff... way too many confusing layers that change every version :( 02:02:45 jmckitrick [~user@adsl-92-243-131.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:03:18 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-171-202.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:03:48 -!- jmckitrick [~user@adsl-92-243-131.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:03:58 boysetsfrog [~nathan@123-243-214-176.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:05:30 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.88.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:06:41 ejohnson [~elliott@elliottjohnson.net] has joined #lisp 02:06:43 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:06:57 -!- wuj [~wuj@pool-74-101-71-212.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:07:36 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-171-202.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:07:39 wuj [~wuj@pool-74-108-177-147.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:09:05 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 02:12:56 -!- Joreji [~thomas@67-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:14:53 nope 02:14:55 no change 02:14:58 oh man 02:15:18 |3b|: Don't worry. It'll be all Wayland tomorrow. ;-) 02:16:17 logitech_base is the logitech generic keyboard layout not ? 02:17:50 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-66-13.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:18:11 Saturnation [~dsouth@pool-70-109-191-111.burl.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 02:18:53 -!- jconrad [~jconrad@host109-152-178-102.range109-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:19:07 well, this is interesting.... 02:19:14 The value # is not of type VECTOR. 02:19:55 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-225-134.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:20:07 necroforest: that seems right. 02:20:22 it does? 02:20:27 ohhh 02:20:46 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-232-206.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:20:51 i was associating # pkhuong_: the change in my xorg.conf did nothing to improve it, i even got the trunk from svn of glfw and installed and clean .cache and reloaded all in sbcl, the key is just not working.... 02:27:53 [Derek] [~derek@205.185.113.254] has joined #lisp 02:27:53 -!- [Derek] [~derek@205.185.113.254] has quit [Excess Flood] 02:28:23 [Derek] [~derek@205.185.113.254] has joined #lisp 02:28:23 -!- [Derek] [~derek@205.185.113.254] has quit [Excess Flood] 02:28:40 pkhuong_: other than that the key y is working as if rotating at alone one point of the tetraeder 02:28:52 pkhuong_: so i don't know why y is even active.... 02:28:54 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.60.128] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 02:30:13 pkhuong_: y and shift_y act as if up and down were pressed 02:31:04 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:32:45 pjb: Around? 02:39:20 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.88.167] has joined #lisp 02:39:45 oyy, i think it was not meant to be zoomed, it was just a rotation around the Z plane 02:39:49 now i see 02:39:51 eheh 02:39:52 oh man 02:40:10 but nevertheless, my z is mapped to y somehow, and i don't know why 02:40:46 even starting sbcl from the console did not solve it, i thought maybe something in my .emacs file was wrong 02:42:29 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-213-112.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:43:33 scottj [~scott@206.212.250.58] has joined #lisp 02:44:31 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-225-134.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:45:37 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.88.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:47:23 [Derek] [~derek@205.185.113.254] has joined #lisp 02:47:24 -!- [Derek] [~derek@205.185.113.254] has quit [Excess Flood] 02:51:24 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.88.167] has joined #lisp 02:54:34 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 02:56:44 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.88.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:58:10 -!- pickles [~paul@d47-69-2-54.col.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:58:37 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.88.167] has joined #lisp 03:00:32 -!- Saturnation [~dsouth@pool-70-109-191-111.burl.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 03:01:23 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:05:01 PCMX [~dborba@pool-74-105-202-55.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:05:16 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:05:25 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:06:58 -!- Taiyou` [~Taiyou@141.117.225.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:07:02 -!- scottj [~scott@206.212.250.58] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:08:16 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633882.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 03:09:47 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.88.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:11:16 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:12:23 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 03:16:43 lemoinem [~swoog@146-76-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 03:16:56 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:18:59 [Derek] [~derek@205.185.113.254] has joined #lisp 03:18:59 -!- [Derek] [~derek@205.185.113.254] has quit [Excess Flood] 03:19:56 -!- CrazyEddy [~expilatio@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:24:43 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:32:46 [Derek] [~derek@205.185.113.254] has joined #lisp 03:32:46 -!- [Derek] [~derek@205.185.113.254] has quit [Excess Flood] 03:32:54 -!- murilasso [~murilasso@189.103.20.140] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:32:59 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@146-76-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:33:12 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:33:50 lemoinem [~swoog@146-76-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 03:34:12 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:34:23 -!- kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 03:35:23 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.80.221] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:36:19 theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.80.221] has joined #lisp 03:36:20 -!- bandu [~coyotama@pool-71-164-234-131.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: client closed in haste] 03:37:01 kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has joined #lisp 03:43:19 [Derek] [~derek@205.185.113.254] has joined #lisp 03:43:19 -!- [Derek] [~derek@205.185.113.254] has quit [Excess Flood] 03:43:36 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:48:00 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 03:48:53 murilasso [~murilasso@189.103.20.140] has joined #lisp 03:48:55 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-33-40-124.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn you have to set yourself on fire.] 03:50:23 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@146-76-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:54:24 [Derek] [~derek@205.185.113.254] has joined #lisp 03:54:24 -!- [Derek] [~derek@205.185.113.254] has quit [Excess Flood] 03:58:44 Hmm. What is the intended difference between pathname-host and host-namestring? 03:58:52 pjb: Around? 04:04:19 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-24-147-116-20.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:04:27 [Derek] [~derek@205.185.113.254] has joined #lisp 04:04:27 -!- [Derek] [~derek@205.185.113.254] has quit [Excess Flood] 04:05:15 Yes. 04:05:54 pathname-host has a :case parameter. 04:06:27 host-namestring has none, and doesn't say anything about case, so I'd expect the host name to be given in the :common case (uppercase for standard logical pathnames). 04:07:40 I would (defun host-namestring (x) (pathname-host x :case :common)) 04:08:52 At least, for logical pathnames. (defun host-namestring (x) (if (typep x 'logical-pathname) (pathname-host x :case :common) (whatever-the-implementation-wants x)))) 04:09:00 Yeah, other than the :case parameter, there isn't much difference. 04:09:18 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-0-111.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:09:32 Well, the glossary says one can return a list of strings, but the other is just a string. 04:10:33 Also, I saw your pathname case issue on the clisp list. I agree that :case should be honored for logical pathnames. 04:10:36 -!- Aferlak12 [~Aferlak12@64.120.233.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:11:07 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-106-138-18.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 04:12:14 -!- murilasso [~murilasso@189.103.20.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:15:13 seangrov` [~user@c-67-188-0-111.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:15:42 -!- seangrov` [~user@c-67-188-0-111.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:16:37 -!- BrianRice [~water@c-98-246-165-205.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: BrianRice] 04:17:10 [Derek] [~derek@205.185.113.254] has joined #lisp 04:17:10 -!- [Derek] [~derek@205.185.113.254] has quit [Excess Flood] 04:18:20 Good morning everyone! 04:19:12 good morning beach 04:19:13 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:20:11 murilasso [~murilasso@189.103.20.140] has joined #lisp 04:20:52 Evet [~Evet@unaffiliated/evet] has joined #lisp 04:22:45 -!- az [~az@p5796CD2D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:23:10 [Derek] [~derek@205.185.113.254] has joined #lisp 04:23:10 -!- [Derek] [~derek@205.185.113.254] has quit [Excess Flood] 04:24:35 beach: morning! 04:26:40 [Derek] [~derek@205.185.113.254] has joined #lisp 04:26:40 -!- [Derek] [~derek@205.185.113.254] has quit [Excess Flood] 04:29:09 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:30:21 az [~az@p4FE4E8F5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:32:15 [Derek] [~derek@205.185.113.254] has joined #lisp 04:32:15 -!- [Derek] [~derek@205.185.113.254] has quit [Excess Flood] 04:39:11 _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has joined #lisp 04:39:41 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-24-147-116-20.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:40:36 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-180-34.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:41:36 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-213-112.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:42:58 *syntard* waves continuably 04:45:16 [Derek] [~derek@205.185.113.254] has joined #lisp 04:45:16 -!- [Derek] [~derek@205.185.113.254] has quit [Excess Flood] 04:45:34 Man I've been watching [Derek] do that all day! 04:46:40 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Zhivago 04:46:54 -!- Zhivago has set mode +b [Derek]!*@* 04:46:59 -!- Zhivago has set mode -o Zhivago 04:48:13 someone with connectivity issue? 04:49:41 Doesn't usually produce excess flood. 04:49:59 The client is probably being ddossed or some-such. 04:50:51 It's a nick-ban so he can enter with a different nick to get it removed. 04:51:58 *p_l|uni* ignored all unknown joins/parts so it flies under the radar 04:53:32 antgreen [~user@CPE00222d6c4710-CM00222d6c470d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 04:55:31 Taiyou` [~Taiyou@bas3-toronto47-1279427952.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 04:55:31 -!- Taiyou` [~Taiyou@bas3-toronto47-1279427952.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:55:36 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:00:00 I'm not really upset or anything---I just noticed is all 05:00:05 Maybe I shouldn't have said anything. 05:01:44 kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-umehamvblketkdmy] has joined #lisp 05:01:44 -!- kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-umehamvblketkdmy] has quit [Changing host] 05:01:44 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:02:12 Anything I should know about quicklisp, or is it fairly idiot proof? 05:02:33 I don't think there have been enough idiots involved in the testing phase to be sure. 05:02:33 good morning all 05:02:39 Hah :v 05:02:44 sloanr [~user@75-168-232-24.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:02:53 Well I'm not TOO dumb 05:03:00 so hopefully it'll work out for me 05:03:26 kslt1 [~Sierka1@netblock-208-127-156-174.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 05:03:50 *syntard* is worth 100 idiots 05:04:28 I'm gonna try gsll tonight 05:04:31 At least that's my goal 05:04:48 bipartite [~rff@ip72-207-243-174.br.br.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:04:49 gonna see how building up finite difference equations compares to my previous experiences elsewhere 05:04:54 *jesusabdullah* is cautiously optimistic 05:05:46 -!- annihilator [~rff@ip72-207-243-174.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:06:09 -!- sloanr [~user@75-168-232-24.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:09:43 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.67.73] has joined #lisp 05:11:40 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-88-41.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 05:11:52 -!- kslt1 [~Sierka1@netblock-208-127-156-174.dslextreme.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:13:37 Oh wow 05:13:41 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-180-34.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:13:55 quicklisp lives up to its name--that's the fastest and easiest time I've *ever* had installing a package manager 05:19:21 I'm beginning to think that tests are the best kind of documentation. 05:21:10 Ocaso [~chatzilla@203.156.243.14] has joined #lisp 05:25:26 Yeah, but then you have to dig through tests to figure out how to use something 05:25:52 I'm a fan of a well-written readme with a few examples at *least* 05:26:01 Not that I practice what I preach, mind you :) 05:26:20 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.66.207.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:26:46 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-66-207-56.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 05:27:23 morinng 05:27:28 when you need to dig, tests are your friend 05:27:43 schmrkc: hello! 05:28:20 Makes sense 05:30:12 jesusabdullah: tests *are* examples, though 05:30:33 -!- Ocaso [~chatzilla@203.156.243.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:30:52 yep 05:31:34 Ralith: Sure, but they're usually isolated, without a thorough explanation 05:31:43 pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.193.72] has joined #lisp 05:31:58 then document your tests and you're good! 05:32:01 should be doing that anyway. 05:32:04 Like I said, basic examples should be paired with a good readme that explains what is going on and gets someone on their feet. 05:32:51 Start your readme with tests! 05:32:59 Test docs are good, but I disagree in that saying, "Just look at the tests" without a good readme (b/w examples) is a good approach regarding documentation. 05:33:37 er, "is not a good approach" 05:33:49 -!- lusory [~bart@bb219-75-1-110.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:34:08 troussan [~user@c-24-245-15-191.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:37:02 -!- troussan [~user@c-24-245-15-191.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:41:37 -!- TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@203-206-240-161.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Disconnected by services] 05:42:33 TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@203-206-247-225.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 05:45:33 I'll be glad when this test mania has died down. 05:45:48 test mania? 05:45:56 It reminds me of the "reusable code" mania, and the "oop heirarchy" mania, and ... 05:46:02 I guess tdd is kind of a craze 05:46:08 Yeah. Every idiot is written six million useless tests. 05:46:24 Much like with the previous manias, about 10% of it is worth doing. 05:47:03 I've done some test-driven stuff. I think it's worthwhile in some cases but not the be-all, end-all 05:47:22 Then again, most of the stuff I do isn't really intended for serious consumption by others 05:47:29 Lotta ad-hoc scripts n' such 05:47:35 tdd is useful when you're writing extremely boring code. 05:47:53 e.g., you already know what you're going to do in advance. 05:47:54 -!- kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 05:48:02 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 05:48:05 Funny you should say that--the one time i used it, I was trying to port something to python 05:48:17 which was like, round hole/square peg 05:48:28 Still working on that one <_< 05:48:40 I want it, but I don't even really like python much anymore 05:48:52 I think I might even port it to lisp first 05:49:09 Tests for refactoring are also useful, but that's not tdd. 05:49:33 I guess it comes down to "tdd is great for reinventing wheels". 05:50:15 How do you feel about bdd? 05:51:05 What is bdd? 05:52:08 Ah, behaviour. 05:52:29 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.193.72] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:53:20 I suspect it's just the result of the collapse of agile mania. 05:54:33 It seems to involve old contract stuff (e.g., pre- and post- conditions) with the novel idea of actually talking to people and showing them stuff. 05:54:37 kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has joined #lisp 05:55:25 I'm waiting for the "write readable code" mania to come around, but it never does. 05:55:38 I'm glad I looked at cl-cont tests. 05:55:40 I expect that it doesn't have enough quick fix gibberish to fly. 05:55:58 -!- wuj [~wuj@pool-74-108-177-147.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:57:44 It all reminds me of the self-help market. 05:57:46 I think a not-sucky way to do LP could help with that 05:57:48 maybe 05:58:19 Though, my issue is actually that i don't want to do lp, but that I want to do some kind of pseudo-literate programming 05:58:40 -!- bipartite [~rff@ip72-207-243-174.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:58:55 Is the best way to get a range of numbers to use loop? 05:58:59 Remember kids, if you're going to be playing around with variables, always use earmuffs 06:00:56 That is, is (loop for i from 1 to 10 collect i) the most idiomatic way to get (1 2 3 4 ... 9 10) ? 06:01:05 jesus: It is an idomatic way. 06:01:17 Cool, thanks 06:01:56 I notice you say, "an" idiomatic way--are there alternatives? 06:02:11 I mean, ones that come to mind--- timtowtdi, as they say 06:02:33 Well, not making a list would be another approach. 06:02:34 Sorry for the noob questions <_< 06:02:50 churib [~tg@dslc-082-082-126-031.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 06:03:01 Yeah, that's true 06:03:18 Why do you want a range? 06:03:38 I don't really want a clean range, per se--what I really want to do is discretize a domain 06:03:53 Think data points 06:05:48 For example, you may want to plot y = x^2, and at least with most plotting libraries, you need an x column and a y column. So, x might be (loop for x from 1 to 10 collect x), and y might be (mapcar (lambda (x) (expt x 2)) x) 06:05:48 So why are you talking about generating ranges? 06:05:56 Well, it 06:05:59 blegh 06:06:58 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 06:08:37 One could start with a range loop and modify it to return values scaled/translated to make up linearly-spaced points--maybe loop from 0 to (n-1), collect (b-a)*x + a or some such 06:08:37 man man man 06:08:47 hmm? 06:08:57 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Client Quit] 06:09:09 Can defgeneric have a docstring, or do those belong on defmethod? 06:09:19 i tried to unload cl-opengl and gl and glu, uninterned them, deleted the packages, then did a (gc), then reloaded other gl libraries and guess what gl can't be found 06:09:21 lol 06:09:29 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 06:09:49 Harag [~user@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:10:28 seangrove: Well, I'd look at the documentation for defgeneric and see if I can find the phrase "documentation string". 06:10:44 zhivago, yeah, I was looking around 06:10:50 I see the syntax is just a bit weird 06:12:19 seangrove: (:documentation "docstring") after function-name and gf-lambda-list 06:13:58 Looks about right, thanks syntard 06:14:01 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 06:16:32 Is there a reason I shouldn't use underscores in variable names if I want to indicate a subscript? 06:16:34 -!- Salamander__ is now known as Salamander 06:16:47 I guess I could name it inside-radius instead of r_i 06:17:05 but then it wouldn't be 1:1 to the equations I'm trying to translate over from Mathland 06:19:44 fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 06:20:11 -!- fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:20:21 gump_ [~gump@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 06:21:38 -!- gadek [~konrad@62.121.148.46] has quit [Quit: wybiega NOW!] 06:21:41 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 06:22:08 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@122.170.45.169] has joined #lisp 06:22:08 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@122.170.45.169] has quit [Changing host] 06:22:08 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 06:28:26 -!- kiuma_ [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 06:28:42 HackingLemur [~ajmorgan@96.18.164.16] has joined #lisp 06:30:06 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 06:31:39 -!- gump_ [~gump@188.74.82.177] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 06:31:51 fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 06:33:22 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-66-207-56.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:34:25 cmm [~cmm@109.66.207.56] has joined #lisp 06:37:27 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 06:37:53 sharps [~user@ip-118-90-17-221.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:38:35 How can I get the new- to be connected to the name value that's being spliced in? It seems like no matter what I do there's a space between new- and the ,name: (defmacro couch-model (name attributes)`(defun new-,name () 06:38:35 )) 06:39:22 dberg` [~user@c-98-234-179-166.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:39:38 -!- spratt`` [~user@CPE0014bf3f85af-CM00080d79b684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:40:16 the name should be a symbol 06:40:23 not two symbols 06:41:03 stassats: I want to give a base name for the model, and generate a bunch of functions around it 06:41:18 right now I'm seeing: (macroexpand-1 '(couch-model person '(age name occupation))) (DEFUN NEW- PERSON NIL) 06:41:49 clhs intern 06:42:02 damn those bots 06:42:06 Heh, looking it up 06:42:13 s'alright, still got C-c C-d h 06:43:46 I don't think I get it 100% 06:43:59 (defmacro couch-model (name attributes) `(defun ,(intern (concatenate 'string "new-" (string name))) ())) 06:44:07 (macroexpand-1 '(couch-model person '(age name occupation))) -> (DEFUN |new-PERSON| ()) 06:44:28 closure, definitely - but can I call a function like |new-person| ? 06:45:19 do you really want to? 06:45:30 No, of course not 06:45:36 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 06:45:54 I suppose I'm using intern incorrectly here? 06:46:06 then try (format nil "~a~a" '#:new- name) instead 06:46:35 no, you're using intern correctly 06:46:52 seangrove: and what did you mean by "closure, definitely" 06:46:52 but concatenate returns a function 06:47:02 homie: since when? 06:47:05 stassats: perhaps a bit too subtle for a newbie. (format nil "~A~A" "NEW" name) will do too 06:47:17 mal__: no, it won't 06:47:30 stassats: I meant closer, heh. Interesting typo :) 06:47:37 NEW- 06:47:45 mal__: still no 06:48:38 hmmm I'm not taking into account Allegro's non ANSI mode 06:48:57 that is right, and other readtable modifications 06:49:20 as I said, too subtle for a newbie. 06:49:33 is too subtle to write correct code? 06:49:46 Do I have to intern the value returned from the format above? 06:49:49 it would help if the newbie understood why it was correct 06:49:57 seangrove: yes 06:50:10 Looks good 06:50:29 I'm starting to see that format is really for much more than outputting strings in the way I was thinking about it 06:50:41 and if you want to guard against all that, you need to wrap a lot of stuff with with-standard-io-syntax 06:52:06 So what's the significance of |something|? 06:52:34 symbols in common lisp get by default translated to uppercase 06:52:42 seangrove: | escapes characters, so it's read as it is 06:52:45 :something is a symbol, 'something is a quoted form that returns something that should be evaluated later, but # always does crazy stuff, not sure about |something| 06:52:51 so if you type new-foo, the reader interns it too NEW-FOO 06:53:12 if you want lower case new-foo, you type |new-foo| 06:53:13 seangrove: :something is a keyword 06:53:36 #:something is an uninterned symbol 06:53:37 mal__, ah, interesting - so it's to preserve case? 06:53:38 and 06:54:04 no and! 06:54:59 seangrove: it preserves everything 06:55:44 I see that 06:55:49 ZabaQ [~Zaba@host81-154-125-220.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 06:55:59 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.67.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:56:11 Interesting. I think that'll have to sit in my head and ferment a bit 06:56:44 isn't something clear? 06:57:03 Oh, it's clear, just thinking about its uses 06:57:36 lemoinem [~swoog@46-74-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 06:58:06 you can use it for |camelCase|, oh dear 06:59:28 as long as we're confusing the beginners, if you really want camelCase, set the readtable case to :INVERT 07:01:42 :preserve 07:02:02 (DEFUN myCamelCaseFunction (x) (IF (ZEROP x) 1 (ODDP x))) 07:02:21 So that like in Modula-2, language keywords stand out! :-) 07:02:50 The big advantage of :preserve, is that you can use symbols with the same names as in CL, but for the case. 07:03:14 the big advantage of :invert is that you can avoid typing GREAT RUNES 07:03:32 I have no ostracism toward uppercase letters. 07:03:38 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 07:03:44 The first computer I used only had them :-) 07:04:22 the first computer I used had EBCDIC. I'm not all that nostalgic :) 07:05:09 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-158-125.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: I'm big in Japan] 07:05:28 I used an EBCDIC computer ten years later... The first one was already ASCII, but the terminals had only uppercase. 07:06:58 I am trying (cl-ppcre:regex-replace-all #\* name "") , but it is failing as there is a [ in name, 07:06:59 parse error in namestring: #\[ with no corresponding #\] 07:07:05 -!- SCVirus [~SCVirus@S0106001c1122940c.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:08:27 how to resolve that ? 07:09:02 are you sure? 07:09:32 because that's what (namestring "[name") would error 07:09:46 do you have #p"[name" or something? 07:09:55 parse error in namestring: #\[ with no corresponding #\] 07:09:55 /data/searchdb/"operator[.dat" 07:10:11 stassats, ^^ 07:10:23 well, cl-ppcre has nothing to do with it, fix your other code 07:10:35 oh 07:10:43 ok 07:10:50 what are you really trying to do? 07:11:49 stassats, create files with names like : operator[.dat or operator+=.dat 07:12:12 what strange names 07:12:21 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 07:12:32 :) 07:12:40 -!- HackingLemur [~ajmorgan@96.18.164.16] has quit [Quit: HackingLemur] 07:12:58 billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 07:13:00 daniel___ [~daniel@p5082A7A8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:13:56 (make-pathname :name "operator[" :type "dat") 07:14:03 pjb: SIXBIT rules :) 07:14:50 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5B3278C6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:16:23 stassats, yes saw that 07:16:48 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 07:18:05 -!- dberg` [~user@c-98-234-179-166.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 07:22:40 stassats, thanks :) 07:25:10 one question - why name files after C++ operator override semantics? 07:25:10 -!- daniel___ is now known as daniel 07:25:37 leo2007 [~leo@n219076093094.netvigator.com] has joined #lisp 07:26:18 p_l|uni, hehe, just to store some information about that operator :) 07:27:45 O_o 07:27:57 why not have operators.dat with fields [, + 07:28:22 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@46-74-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:31:27 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:31:54 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 07:35:20 -!- Taiyou [~the666bea@bas3-toronto47-1279427952.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:37:49 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-qizlmunkavdinssb] has joined #lisp 07:38:22 -!- kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 07:38:32 haskullpc [~birdpc@212.175.136.174] has joined #lisp 07:40:47 -!- jdz [~jdz@host124-16-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:42:49 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:43:05 good morning 07:48:06 kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has joined #lisp 07:55:08 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:55:14 reav_ [~reav_@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 07:58:02 morning 07:59:57 -!- ASau [~user@89-178-188-64.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:00:47 ASau [~user@89-178-188-64.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 08:00:52 sloanr [~user@75-168-232-24.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 08:09:04 homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-190-239.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:10:07 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-171-202.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:10:15 freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn1-96.vpn.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 08:11:04 hlavaty [~user@95-88-27-48-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:11:16 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-190-239.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 08:11:41 lanthan_afh [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:12:22 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 08:16:12 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-190-239.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:19:40 -!- ve [~a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:20:11 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-126-135.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 08:20:30 -!- fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 08:23:10 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-27-103.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:23:58 xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-9-79.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:24:40 ve [~a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 08:25:05 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-72-236.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:26:08 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 08:32:33 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 08:33:57 SCVirus [~SCVirus@S0106001c1122940c.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 08:35:27 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-rxgwjfzbjzurcehy] has joined #lisp 08:35:53 abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 08:36:12 c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 08:38:01 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:38:50 -!- reav_ [~reav_@212.88.117.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:43:19 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:44:00 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 08:44:35 -!- SCVirus [~SCVirus@S0106001c1122940c.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:48:45 -!- leo2007 [~leo@n219076093094.netvigator.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.20] 08:48:54 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-0-111.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:52:46 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:53:07 Evet_ [~Evet@78.185.116.20] has joined #lisp 08:53:29 -!- Evet [~Evet@unaffiliated/evet] has quit [Disconnected by services] 08:54:08 -!- Evet_ is now known as Evet 08:54:15 -!- Evet [~Evet@78.185.116.20] has quit [Changing host] 08:54:15 Evet [~Evet@unaffiliated/evet] has joined #lisp 08:54:31 Guthur [c743cb8d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.199.67.203.141] has joined #lisp 09:01:04 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 09:02:07 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 09:02:27 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-71-107.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:02:49 jconrad [~jconrad@host109-153-59-182.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:03:09 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 09:09:55 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-qizlmunkavdinssb] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:13:16 -!- kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 09:13:33 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.86.199] has joined #lisp 09:16:13 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 09:18:21 kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has joined #lisp 09:27:02 petercoulton [~petercoul@152.105.51.245] has joined #lisp 09:28:14 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.86.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:28:14 -!- syntard_ [~chatzilla@74.112.63.251] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:29:24 -!- ASau [~user@89-178-188-64.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:29:29 syntard_ [~chatzilla@74.112.63.251] has joined #lisp 09:29:47 reav_ [~reav_@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 09:30:12 ASau [~user@89-178-188-64.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 09:30:30 -!- skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:34:02 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-zrcaygvyosdtanhz] has joined #lisp 09:34:02 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-zrcaygvyosdtanhz] has quit [Changing host] 09:34:02 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 09:34:10 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.86.199] has joined #lisp 09:34:12 Hun [~Hun@80.81.19.29] has joined #lisp 09:38:12 -!- ASau [~user@89-178-188-64.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:39:11 ASau [~user@89-178-188-64.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 09:41:15 -!- rootzlevel [~hpd@91-66-217-160-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:41:27 aurelien [~Libre@fsf/member/aurelien] has joined #lisp 09:42:09 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu255.queens.ox.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 09:42:38 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:43:26 -!- H4ns``` is now known as H4ns 09:44:29 SCVirus [~SCVirus@S0106001c1122940c.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 09:46:15 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@host81-154-125-220.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:48:22 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.58.222] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:50:29 -!- Guthur [c743cb8d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.199.67.203.141] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:51:00 LinGmnZ [~LinGmnZ@ppp-115-87-198-252.revip4.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 09:55:07 leifw [~user@ool-18bfe51c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 09:55:23 dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-66.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 09:56:38 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-66-13.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 09:57:01 tfb [~tfb@92.41.95.34.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:57:31 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:59:43 LinGmnZ8 [~LinGmnZ@ppp-115-87-215-184.revip4.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 09:59:57 tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 10:00:00 CrazyEddy [~overstrik@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 10:00:59 hmmm... I have seen memory leaks, but has anyone seen *cpu* leak? 10:01:40 H4ns` [~user@p579F8874.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:02:21 pdo [~pdo@217.33.254.141] has joined #lisp 10:02:26 ... that, or there was horrible 2D software rescaling involving 10:02:46 -!- LinGmnZ [~LinGmnZ@ppp-115-87-198-252.revip4.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:03:42 -!- stdDoubt [~XP@bl15-214-200.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:05:19 -!- H4ns [~user@pD4B9E632.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:05:37 -!- Jubb [~ghost@24-151-24-155.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Jubb] 10:06:16 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn1-96.vpn.helsinki.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:06:38 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:08:22 p 10:09:15 (sorry wrong focus, will keep status active by default to prevent that) 10:09:18 kaemo [~mad5ci@150.254.82.179] has joined #lisp 10:11:24 spradnyesh [~pradyus@lo5.cfw-a-gci.corp.ukl.yahoo.com] has joined #lisp 10:12:00 netytan [~netytan@host81-141-55-150.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 10:19:12 jconrad_ [~jconrad@host109-152-181-59.range109-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 10:20:20 freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-23.vpn.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 10:21:28 -!- jconrad [~jconrad@host109-153-59-182.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:21:28 -!- jconrad_ is now known as jconrad 10:21:31 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:22:07 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 10:24:15 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@lo5.cfw-a-gci.corp.ukl.yahoo.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:24:33 tfb_ [~tfb@92.40.118.224.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:24:49 -!- tfb [~tfb@92.41.95.34.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has quit [Disconnected by services] 10:24:58 -!- tfb_ is now known as tfb 10:27:17 _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has joined #lisp 10:28:33 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@77.16.94.198.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 10:30:04 -!- lnostdal [~Lars@218.80-202-49.nextgentel.com] has quit [Disconnected by services] 10:30:22 -!- lnostdal-laptop is now known as lnostdal 10:30:33 lnostdal_ [~Lars@218.80-202-49.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 10:33:07 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.48.210] has joined #lisp 10:33:13 pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.193.72] has joined #lisp 10:35:12 Guthur [c0c1f510@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.193.245.16] has joined #lisp 10:35:47 -!- jonaskoelker [~jonas@213.140.64.142] has left #lisp 10:38:00 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu255.queens.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:40:49 billitch [~billitch@62.201.142.85] has joined #lisp 10:45:06 -!- sloanr [~user@75-168-232-24.mpls.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:46:20 -!- reav_ [~reav_@212.88.117.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:48:48 -!- kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 10:49:35 reav_ [~reav_@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 10:50:06 drdo [~user@194.210.228.77] has joined #lisp 10:51:27 -!- drdo [~user@194.210.228.77] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:51:47 drdo [~user@194.210.228.77] has joined #lisp 10:53:36 -!- benny [~benny@i577A2538.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:56:01 claint [~user@88.236.79.127] has joined #lisp 10:56:05 -!- OliverUv [~gandhi@34.81-167-250.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:58:38 birdpc [~birdpc@212.175.136.174] has joined #lisp 10:58:53 -!- em [~emma@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:59:35 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@152.105.51.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:00:18 spradnyesh [~pradyus@41.65.75.135] has joined #lisp 11:00:42 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@218.82.57.220] has joined #lisp 11:00:51 petercoulton [~petercoul@152.105.51.245] has joined #lisp 11:00:58 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@77.16.94.198.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:01:05 -!- haskullpc [~birdpc@212.175.136.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:01:09 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@41.65.75.135] has quit [Client Quit] 11:01:31 -!- rotty [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:02:21 spradnyesh [~pradyus@41.65.75.135] has joined #lisp 11:02:55 rotty [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has joined #lisp 11:06:21 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-66-13.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:07:02 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@77.16.94.198.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 11:07:10 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@41.65.75.135] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:09:17 spradnyesh [~pradyus@lo5.cfw-a-gci.corp.ukl.yahoo.com] has joined #lisp 11:12:38 -!- jconrad [~jconrad@host109-152-181-59.range109-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:13:32 jconrad [~jconrad@host109-156-1-28.range109-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:15:08 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:17:23 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:19:37 -!- H4ns` is now known as H4ns 11:20:55 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@77.16.94.198.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:21:39 claint` [~user@85.106.70.210] has joined #lisp 11:23:37 -!- claint [~user@88.236.79.127] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:23:52 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 11:25:21 -!- netytan [~netytan@host81-141-55-150.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:27:38 -!- jconrad [~jconrad@host109-156-1-28.range109-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:28:02 jconrad [~jconrad@host86-147-31-181.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:31:32 Does http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp work? 11:31:36 -!- kaemo [~mad5ci@150.254.82.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:32:05 no, it does not... 11:32:16 -!- drdo [~user@194.210.228.77] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:33:44 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 11:34:39 Yuuhi [benni@p5483AA3B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:37:00 kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has joined #lisp 11:37:44 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@123.120.133.209] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:38:13 carlocci [~nes@93.37.194.0] has joined #lisp 11:39:33 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 11:42:02 knobo: it does not work how? 11:43:33 jmckitrick [~user@adsl-92-243-131.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 11:43:34 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@77.16.94.198.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 11:45:08 tcr: are you online? 11:45:53 knobo: the append you're trying to make requires only 3 arguments 11:47:07 knobo: however, if you want to optimize, you may follow these instructions (and think about them): walk the list, memorizing the previous cons. when you find the item, simply swap the contents of the current cons with that of the previous cons 11:48:08 knobo: things to think about: 1. the item is at the head of the list; 2. the item does not exist; 3. use the value of the conses instead of item when setting their values 11:51:21 ZabaQ [~john.conn@playboxgames.com] has joined #lisp 11:55:53 knobo: are you there? i see you're having trouble understanding subseq. the start argument is inclusive, but the end argument is exclusive 11:56:09 clhs subseq 11:56:49 ok 11:56:53 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 12:01:16 did it: http://paste.lisp.org/+2I8J/1 12:02:24 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 12:02:28 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.193.72] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:02:35 nice? 12:06:48 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:09:31 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@lo5.cfw-a-gci.corp.ukl.yahoo.com] has left #lisp 12:13:02 -!- claint` [~user@85.106.70.210] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:15:56 -!- billitch [~billitch@62.201.142.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:17:40 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:17:41 knobo: should you put a notice in function's documentation that item must not be NIL? 12:18:08 I'd really like the lambdalist in defun to be like in destructuring-bind 12:18:38 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 12:18:45 jdz: I wrap it in a function that checks for bounds and nils, but the doc is always good. 12:19:36 knobo: you could (should!) write that function so that it allows NIL as item as well 12:20:29 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@playboxgames.com] has left #lisp 12:22:08 that's easy 12:23:28 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp3255.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 12:23:39 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@152.105.51.245] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:24:18 I' annotated, but i did not test it >:) 12:25:25 hmm.. the nil gets removed :( 12:25:37 Jabberwockey [~jgrabarsk@selene.ftk.de] has joined #lisp 12:26:30 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:26:54 knobo: and also what happens when it is not in the list 12:27:37 aha.. did not change the optim recursive function 12:28:05 marijnjh [~user@p5DDB283F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:29:14 knobo: still 12:29:26 No, there it is. 12:30:23 except when the item is the first element 12:31:52 so I'll put everything in labels, and check the first element first. 12:32:18 ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 12:33:01 -!- guaqua [gua@xob.kapsi.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:35:30 jweiss_ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:39:57 pkhuong_: sorry, I'm accordionist, which finger should I use? 12:42:54 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:43:21 guaqua [gua@xob.kapsi.fi] has joined #lisp 12:47:01 spradnyesh [~pradyus@41.65.75.135] has joined #lisp 12:48:25 rff [~rff@ip72-207-243-174.br.br.cox.net] has joined #lisp 12:50:58 -!- LinGmnZ8 [~LinGmnZ@ppp-115-87-215-184.revip4.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:52:39 pjb: Around? 12:54:01 frobisher [~frobisher@173.180.37.165] has joined #lisp 12:54:39 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 12:56:27 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:59:45 pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.193.72] has joined #lisp 13:05:08 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@41.65.75.135] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:06:57 davertron [~ddcddavis@c-24-218-166-166.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:09:45 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 13:11:40 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 13:13:45 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 13:16:55 -!- rff [~rff@ip72-207-243-174.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:18:09 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:19:35 Yes. 13:21:03 spradnyesh [~pradyus@lo5.cfw-a-gci.corp.ukl.yahoo.com] has joined #lisp 13:22:06 rtoym: I could have answered already if there was a real question... 13:22:10 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.48.210] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:23:52 rme [~rme@pool-70-106-138-18.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:24:21 LiamH [~healy@129-2-135-218.wireless.umd.edu] has joined #lisp 13:25:44 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-71-107.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:26:04 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.193.72] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:28:55 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:31:19 kaemo [~mad5ci@d38-66.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 13:32:33 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@77.16.94.198.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:33:38 fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 13:34:08 -!- borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:35:55 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.66.207.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:36:44 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:36:51 cmm [~cmm@109.66.207.56] has joined #lisp 13:37:14 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:38:36 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-159-143.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 13:39:00 -!- TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@203-206-247-225.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Disconnected by services] 13:39:40 TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@124-171-219-124.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 13:48:58 -!- Skunkwaffle [~Waffle@unaffiliated/Skunkwaffle] has quit [Quit: while (!sleep) sheep ++;] 13:49:52 pjb: Just wanted to know if you were going to send an email to the cmucl list about pathname case issues you found. 13:50:06 tic_ [~tic@c83-249-196-184.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 13:51:53 -!- tic [~tic@c83-249-196-184.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:52:16 benny [~benny@i577A2538.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 13:55:46 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu255.queens.ox.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:58:16 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-118-114.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 13:59:43 Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 14:00:17 -!- frobisher [~frobisher@173.180.37.165] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:02:07 -!- Quetzalcoatl_ [~godless@75.186.5.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:02:25 -!- metasyntax` [~taylor@12.132.219.7] has quit [Quit: Be seeing you.] 14:02:32 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 14:02:34 Quetzalcoatl_ [~godless@cpe-75-186-5-185.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:03:06 spratt`` [~user@CPE0014bf3f85af-CM00080d79b684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 14:04:09 basimple_ [~bazimple@112.154.21.174] has joined #lisp 14:05:06 wuj [~wuj@pool-74-108-177-147.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:06:53 -!- basimple_ [~bazimple@112.154.21.174] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 14:07:52 basimple [~bazimple@112.154.21.174] has joined #lisp 14:07:54 muhdik [~IceChat7@parkmobile-usa.oneringnetworks.net] has joined #lisp 14:08:15 -!- sharps [~user@ip-118-90-17-221.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:11:52 LinGmnZ [~LinGmnZ@ppp-223-24-190-203.revip6.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 14:12:36 -!- LinGmnZ [~LinGmnZ@ppp-223-24-190-203.revip6.asianet.co.th] has left #lisp 14:12:40 -!- kanru [~kanru@61-30-10-70.static.tfn.net.tw] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:13:25 OliverUv [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has joined #lisp 14:13:25 -!- tic_ [~tic@c83-249-196-184.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:15:30 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:16:54 stassats: what time does tcr usually show up? 14:17:08 -!- murilasso [~murilasso@189.103.20.140] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:17:32 rtoym: well, I did. Perhaps it failed. I'll send it again. 14:18:14 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@chello062178064156.22.11.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 14:18:57 -!- LiamH [~healy@129-2-135-218.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:19:24 rrice1 [~rrice@adsl-69-221-165-176.dsl.akrnoh.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 14:19:35 jmckitrick: I'm here 14:20:46 tcr: hi. I hate to ask this, but do you by any chance have one of the sb-cover tarballs I sent you some time ago? 14:22:23 petercoulton [~petercoul@152.105.49.35] has joined #lisp 14:24:06 rtoym: I just sent it again to cmucl-devel (thru gmane.lisp.cmucl.devel). 14:25:39 iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-150-188.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 14:26:02 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:26:29 -!- basimple [~bazimple@112.154.21.174] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 14:27:46 rtoym: seems, it needs moderator approval. 14:29:34 pjb: Sorry. You need to be subscribed. gmane doesn't work, and I don't know why. 14:29:59 It used to work. 14:30:00 rtoym: did the gmane admins subscribe to the new ML ? 14:30:01 -!- iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-150-188.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 14:30:24 fe[nl]ix: Should be since it has the most recent messages. 14:31:56 drdo [~user@194.210.228.119] has joined #lisp 14:33:44 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:33:59 iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-150-188.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 14:35:52 jmckitrick: i don't really know 14:36:04 oh 14:36:09 i didn't read the whole log 14:36:45 stassats: I've got my fingers crossed, but I'm resolved to rewriting it if I have to. 14:39:02 -!- spratt`` [~user@CPE0014bf3f85af-CM00080d79b684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:39:04 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 14:39:46 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:39:48 ok. 14:45:28 ZabaQ [~john.conn@playboxgames.com] has joined #lisp 14:45:38 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:48:00 -!- benny [~benny@i577A2538.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:48:34 -!- tfb [~tfb@92.40.118.224.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:49:11 dostoyevsky [sck@oemcomputer.oerks.de] has joined #lisp 14:49:21 kanru [~kanru@114-45-232-142.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:49:38 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:52:04 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@152.105.49.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:53:37 petercoulton [~petercoul@152.105.49.35] has joined #lisp 14:53:41 Beeff [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 14:55:43 fiveop [~fiveop@178.2.111.102] has joined #lisp 14:56:01 I'm trying to put a quasiquoted list in a constant, the compiler sees this as a redefinition of the constant 14:56:39 Beeff: one solution: don't use a constant. 14:56:43 is there a way to go around this? short of using defvar 14:56:51 really 14:57:47 -!- reav_ [~reav_@212.88.117.162] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:57:48 tfb [~tfb@92.40.118.224.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:57:49 kclifton [~kclifton@s198-166-45-245.ab.hsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 14:57:56 it's just a list of constants I assoc in :/ 14:58:14 tic [~tic@c83-249-196-184.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 14:58:46 reav_ [~reav_@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 14:58:47 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 14:59:10 -!- Beeff is now known as yvdriess 14:59:23 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-23.vpn.helsinki.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 14:59:40 yvdriess: just use defparameter 15:00:27 allow me to feel dirty when defining something constant as a dynamic var :p 15:00:46 yvdriess: one solution: get over it. 15:00:51 yvdriess: eh, you might change it during development 15:01:14 defconstant in lisp is an optimization technique 15:01:22 you still can change it 15:03:19 ignotus [~ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has joined #lisp 15:03:46 hi, how can I get a string from a pathname? Like #p"foo" => "foo" 15:03:56 ignotus: (namestring #p"foo") 15:04:00 Xach: thanks! 15:04:45 jmckitrick: Don't think so, sorry. I landed in my spam folder which has since been flushed 15:05:08 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:06:45 -!- drdo [~user@194.210.228.119] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:12:33 -!- birdpc [~birdpc@212.175.136.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:12:39 Bronsa [~bronsa@host10-186-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:13:11 stassats: the spec says it's undefined behaviour to change the value of a constant 15:13:40 pmd: it's says it's undefined to redefine functions, so what? 15:14:10 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-126-135.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:14:19 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-126-135.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:14:20 stassats: so, i forgot to put `disclaimer' tags around what i said 15:14:35 Evet_ [~Evet@78.185.82.92] has joined #lisp 15:14:51 -!- Evet [~Evet@unaffiliated/evet] has quit [Disconnected by services] 15:14:53 -!- Evet_ is now known as Evet 15:14:57 -!- Evet [~Evet@78.185.82.92] has quit [Changing host] 15:14:57 Evet [~Evet@unaffiliated/evet] has joined #lisp 15:14:58 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:15:39 murilasso [~murilasso@189.103.20.140] has joined #lisp 15:15:41 then i don't understand what is your point 15:15:44 stassats: `defun' states explicitly that it can redefined an already-defined function 15:15:55 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.32] has joined #lisp 15:16:37 clhs 3.2.2.3 15:16:39 stassats: my point is: the *implementation(s)* you're using allow you to redefine constants 15:17:05 "* A call within a file to a named function that is defined in the same file refers to that function, unless that function has been declared notinline. The consequences are unspecified if functions are redefined individually at run time or multiply defined in the same file." 15:17:08 all of them do, though 15:17:57 Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:18:06 Athas` [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 15:18:32 you should see the asdf code for that, actually. 15:18:52 spcshpop` [~user@c-71-231-165-31.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:19:51 lovesan [~Lovesan@188.122.231.139] has joined #lisp 15:21:00 Faed [fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has joined #lisp 15:21:27 lnostdal__ [~Lars@218.80-202-49.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 15:21:34 spradnyesh1 [~pradyus@lo5.cfw-a-gci.corp.ukl.yahoo.com] has joined #lisp 15:22:13 reav__ [~reav_@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 15:22:16 cataska_ [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 15:22:37 Buganini_ [~buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 15:24:05 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:24:30 firecrow8 [~fcrow@69.38.169.34] has joined #lisp 15:24:36 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:24:38 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:24:38 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:24:39 -!- pdo [~pdo@217.33.254.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:24:39 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:24:39 -!- spcshpopr8tr [~user@c-71-231-165-31.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:24:39 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@adsl-99-142-85-216.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:24:40 -!- reav_ [~reav_@212.88.117.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:24:40 -!- TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@124-171-219-124.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:24:40 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@lo5.cfw-a-gci.corp.ukl.yahoo.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:24:40 -!- lnostdal_ [~Lars@218.80-202-49.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:24:42 -!- Buganini [~buganini@security-hole.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:24:42 -!- Fade [fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:25:04 -!- Faed is now known as Fade 15:25:12 Draggor [~Draggor@adsl-99-142-85-216.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:25:33 jittery networks today. 15:26:22 ehu [~ehuels@109.34.28.218] has joined #lisp 15:27:51 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 15:28:17 -!- lovesan [~Lovesan@188.122.231.139] has left #lisp 15:28:37 -!- Harag [~user@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:28:50 jsnell: ping? 15:29:12 -!- jesusabdullah [~jesusabdu@li225-26.members.linode.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:29:26 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:29:36 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:30:57 -!- djinni` [~djinni`@li14-39.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:31:13 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@playboxgames.com] has left #lisp 15:31:25 -!- rapacity [~prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:31:36 -!- seejay [~seejay@unaffiliated/seejay] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:32:00 stassats: bla bla the spec is never wrong (in the beginning was the verb...) 15:32:11 -!- Buganini_ is now known as Buganini 15:32:15 stassats: now, seriously, those are "constraints, which are designed to minimize the observable differences between compiled and interpreted programs" for conforming programs 15:32:23 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host10-186-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:32:52 -!- svk_ [~kaw@svk.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:33:12 svk_ [~kaw@svk.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 15:34:03 kmwallio [~kmwallio@host113-70.brownlie.fit.edu] has joined #lisp 15:34:32 pmd: i don't understand what you're trying to prove 15:35:11 most implementations do sane things on unspecified consequences 15:35:25 pmd: do you limit your arrays to 1023? 15:35:32 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-24-147-116-20.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:35:32 syntard__ [~chatzilla@204.51.92.251] has joined #lisp 15:35:46 or not expect a garbage collector to be present? 15:35:58 stassats: i agree, i was just adding a disclaimer... 15:36:40 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:36:42 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-24-147-116-20.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:36:52 or expect only a subset of ascii character set, etc. 15:37:07 -!- syntard [~chatzilla@fl-74-4-76-189.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:37:12 -!- syntard__ is now known as syntard 15:37:19 arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 15:37:29 BerndBauer [~bernd@d91-128-191-9.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 15:37:32 -!- BerndBauer [~bernd@d91-128-191-9.cust.tele2.at] has left #lisp 15:38:43 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:40:33 -!- leifw [~user@ool-18bfe51c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:40:37 mrSpec [~Spec@chello089072074030.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 15:40:37 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@chello089072074030.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 15:40:37 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 15:42:20 -!- aoh [~aki@80.75.102.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:43:56 drdo [~user@194.210.228.119] has joined #lisp 15:46:57 -!- aurelien [~Libre@fsf/member/aurelien] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:47:47 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.48.210] has joined #lisp 15:47:51 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 15:49:31 -!- churib [~tg@dslc-082-082-126-031.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:50:38 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:52:09 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:52:56 -!- spradnyesh1 [~pradyus@lo5.cfw-a-gci.corp.ukl.yahoo.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:53:28 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:54:07 Joreji_ [~thomas@67-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:55:27 -!- hlavaty [~user@95-88-27-48-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:55:59 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-rxgwjfzbjzurcehy] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:56:42 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 15:56:53 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.34.28.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:58:36 -!- Hun [~Hun@80.81.19.29] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:58:53 -!- davertron [~ddcddavis@c-24-218-166-166.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:59:18 hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 16:01:24 -!- Jabberwockey [~jgrabarsk@selene.ftk.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:04:02 sonnym [~evissecer@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has joined #lisp 16:04:22 Bronsa [~bronsa@host10-186-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:07:55 tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.181] has joined #lisp 16:08:08 benny [~benny@i577A1AC0.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:08:22 -!- kanru [~kanru@114-45-232-142.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:08:47 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:11:32 djinni` [~djinni`@li14-39.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 16:12:38 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 16:13:31 lovesan [~lovesan@188.122.231.139] has joined #lisp 16:19:05 pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.193.72] has joined #lisp 16:19:49 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:22:51 -!- lovesan [~lovesan@188.122.231.139] has left #lisp 16:29:05 rapacity [~prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has joined #lisp 16:32:42 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@chello062178064156.22.11.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 16:33:55 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 16:38:35 anyone tried using HT-AJAX with jQuery? it's isn't listed as a supported library, but i'm wondering if it works anyway 16:39:34 lovesan [~lovesan@188.122.231.139] has joined #lisp 16:39:59 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 16:40:18 i found this through google http://lucindo.com.br/lisp/ht-ajax_0.0.7-jquery.patch but I'm hardly sure what I'm looking at 16:40:41 doesn't look to me like ht-ajax has been active for quite awhile. 16:42:19 felideon [~felideon@173.221.53.122.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:50 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@67-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:45:33 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@152.105.49.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:46:03 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 16:46:32 kleppari_ [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 16:46:37 -!- jmckitrick [~user@adsl-92-243-131.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:47:07 seangrove [~user@70.36.236.168] has joined #lisp 16:47:32 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:49:34 spratt [~user@134.117.254.248] has joined #lisp 16:51:26 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-66.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:52:05 -!- kleppari_ [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:53:28 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:53:37 -!- Athas` [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:55:08 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:55:14 -!- reav__ [~reav_@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:55:45 borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:00:33 pdo [~pdo@217.33.254.141] has joined #lisp 17:04:13 Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050066152.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:06:57 euphidime [u178@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-btmrutqqbwftcjfg] has joined #lisp 17:07:55 billitch [~billitch@62.201.142.70] has joined #lisp 17:08:49 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 17:08:57 Good evening everyone! 17:09:43 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.181] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 17:10:21 hello beach :) 17:10:28 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 17:12:01 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.66.207.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:12:53 cmm [~cmm@109.66.207.56] has joined #lisp 17:13:00 fe[nl]ix: What are you working on these days? still iolib? 17:13:41 reav_ [~reav_@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 17:14:00 beach: yes 17:14:39 -!- ASau [~user@89-178-188-64.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:14:55 And is it going well? 17:15:45 ASau [~user@89-178-188-64.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 17:15:54 and branching out, it seems! 17:17:05 cmm: I am not keeping myself informed. With what? 17:17:17 mrSpec [~Spec@chello089075035251.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 17:17:17 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@chello089075035251.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 17:17:17 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 17:19:04 Craig` [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 17:19:06 hey 17:19:08 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:19:10 beach: a pathname manipulation library, an OS process manipulation library, fixing POSIX 17:19:23 cmm: Great! 17:19:30 hello Craig` 17:20:03 beach: say that to fe[nl]ix, I'm just outside occasionally glancing in :) 17:20:26 fe[nl]ix: Great! :) 17:20:45 cmm: care to join in ? 17:20:46 ^_^ 17:20:47 Craig`: How is learning Emacs and SLIME going? 17:21:00 but imho, keeping all that stuff hidden (publicity-wise) in iolib is sort of unfortunate :) 17:21:03 well im not using emacs 17:21:20 Craig`: Oh, that's too bad. 17:21:23 so far ive just been trying things out in sbcl 17:21:34 Craig`: not using slimv or slime.vim ? 17:21:50 will be using vim plugin 17:22:15 fe[nl]ix: I've decided that helping with infrastructure that I lack any practical use of is unhealthy for me, unfortunately :/ 17:22:19 just not sure what, just reading through practical common lisp and trying things out in sbcl 17:22:41 i used limp when I went through PCL, made it through fine. 17:22:51 slimv has replaced that now. 17:23:11 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:23:21 fogus` [c6970d0f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.151.13.15] has joined #lisp 17:26:34 Craig`: As you will probably learn soon, Lisp programmers don't count parentheses, and they instead count on the indentation being correct. I strongly advice you to choose a tool that will help you getting the indentation right, especially before you submit code for comments. 17:27:09 beach, thanks for the advice 17:28:20 cmm: how do you suggest I should operate wrt. PR ? 17:28:45 sabalaba [~sabalaba@61.48.58.239] has joined #lisp 17:28:54 Craig`: Sure, no problem. What sometimes happens here is that some newbies ignore advice, then try to get help, submitting badly indented code, and then they learn the hard way (and too late) why they should have listened in the first place. 17:30:42 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 17:30:56 Craig`: For instance, when my students submit code for me to read, I stop reading on the first badly-indented line, because the job that I would have to do in order to understand the rest of the code (i.e. count parentheses) would be so great, that I would never finish it. 17:31:25 eugu [~eugene@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 17:32:01 yeah i love irc for programming, always learn the best upto date ways :) 17:32:17 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-124-160.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:33:22 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.193.72] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:33:38 -!- billitch [~billitch@62.201.142.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:33:44 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-24-147-116-20.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:33:44 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-24-147-116-20.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:35:45 beach: Does this policy of stopping to read at the badly indented line also hold true for the cases where emacs does it wrong? 17:35:48 as i dont do anything practical programming anyhow ive decided to ditch everything to learn lisp :) 17:35:52 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:36:07 Schnouki [~schnouki@fsf/member/Schnouki] has joined #lisp 17:36:10 Craig`: watch out. Last time I did that I ended up spending two pears writing a book about Lisp. 17:36:11 Craig`: welcome to a new sane life (: 17:36:12 -!- reav_ [~reav_@212.88.117.162] has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~] 17:36:30 two pears sounds ok ;) 17:36:36 schmrkc: It depends on how I feel that day! :) 17:36:49 haha i doubt ill get that good gigamonkey, i havent *made* anything decent programming :) 17:36:52 Manifesto [Doxem@189.107.110.161] has joined #lisp 17:37:17 Craig`: Lisp might be the key. 17:37:26 hopefully 17:37:31 beach: I like that idea though with the stopping to read when code is horribly indented. It's not like it is extra work for the students to get it right, and they need to learn :) 17:37:37 -!- Schnouki [~schnouki@fsf/member/Schnouki] has left #lisp 17:37:40 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host10-186-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:37:53 its been because ive been somewhat lazy so ive got no excuses 17:37:54 *schmrkc* gets a dvorak feel from gigamonkey 17:38:01 schmrkc: It has worked out pretty well. 17:38:03 i use dvorak :) 17:38:35 Craig`: lisp is quite enjoyable. It has its rough edges, but nothing too serious. (: 17:39:02 -!- Guthur [c0c1f510@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.193.245.16] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:39:23 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 17:39:26 schmrkc: yup. 17:39:32 programmers dvorak to be specific, just new to it so my wpm sucks :) 17:39:42 Joreji [~thomas@67-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 17:39:50 I do that too, analyzing people's typos to see what keyboard layout they're using. 17:40:18 Why is it that when I use macroexpand, it only seems to show the last form of the macro? 17:40:28 pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.193.72] has joined #lisp 17:40:29 Is there a way to see the entire code expanded out? 17:40:33 -!- spcshpop` is now known as spcshpopr8tr 17:40:45 seangrove: macroexpand shows the inter code expanded out 17:41:11 seangrove: Any function in Lisp, including a macro function, only return the value of the last form. That is called "implicit progn". 17:41:13 <|3b|> seangrove: macros only return 1 form 17:41:22 novaburst [~novaburst@sourcemage/mage/novaburst] has joined #lisp 17:41:30 All that makes sense 17:41:41 How then can I see all of it? 17:41:42 seangrove: if you wan to expand to more than one forms use `(progn a b c ,d) 17:41:44 seangrove: Common solution is to macroexpand into a PROGN 17:41:48 ah, interesting 17:41:50 gigamonkey, thanks for having your book freely available 17:42:04 seangrove: You *are* seing all of it, because that's how you programmed it. 17:42:12 gigamonkey: I'm not going to thank you for that... it eventually tricked me into buying it :P 17:42:29 beach: Wrapping it in progn right now :) 17:42:56 What is progn short for? 17:43:17 seangrove: prog1, prog2,  progn ;) 17:43:25 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:43:29 prog is program I suppose. n is return the nth form. 17:43:35 haha, interesting 17:44:07 seangrove: we have progv too. 17:44:18 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:44:34 seangrove: excellent! And Craig`: you're welcome, enjoy. 17:44:43 sure am :) 17:44:52 and PROG 17:48:27 gigamonkey: A new book idea, Lisp on the Web. 17:48:53 symbole: Excellent! When will you finish writing it? 17:49:28 heeeh :) 17:49:33 xan_ [~xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 17:49:51 chemuduguntar [~user@smtp.touchcut.com] has joined #lisp 17:49:52 It would be interesting though. parenscript, the webgl, canvas elements, etc. 17:50:24 schmrkc: that doesn't sound lisp-specific 17:51:09 beach: When I learn how to do it :) 17:51:56 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:54:18 -!- Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:56:17 stassats: Well doing it in lisp, of course. 17:58:03 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.48.210] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:58:27 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.32] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:02:05 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 18:05:29 don_alvarez [~user@lazaro.lab.ic.unicamp.br] has joined #lisp 18:05:39 schmrkc: sexprs -> html, javascript and what not? 18:05:56 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:06:50 -!- spratt [~user@134.117.254.248] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:08:10 -!- tfb [~tfb@92.40.118.224.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:08:28 Doxem [~doxem@189.107.110.161] has joined #lisp 18:09:15 me345 [~me345@adsl-75-15-246-50.dsl.bkfd14.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:11 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:10:27 -!- Manifesto [Doxem@189.107.110.161] has quit [] 18:10:53 redline6561 [~redline@gate-30.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 18:11:01 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 18:11:50 Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 18:12:02 -!- Doxem [~doxem@189.107.110.161] has quit [Quit: .•«UPP»•.] 18:12:50 Manifesto [~doxem@189.107.110.161] has joined #lisp 18:14:42 jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 18:15:27 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-24-147-116-20.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:15:31 pmd: yup. and the opengl. and compiling to flash. etc. 18:15:40 -!- Joreji [~thomas@67-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:16:45 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-24-147-116-20.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:16:54 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@61.99.46.4] has joined #lisp 18:17:09 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@61.99.46.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:20:28 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.193.72] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:20:29 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@61.99.46.4] has joined #lisp 18:24:33 -!- jamief [~user@158.223.53.104] has quit [Quit: Terminated with extreme prejudice - dircproxy 1.0.5] 18:24:55 austinh [~austinh@c-67-189-92-40.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:26:13 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:26:32 fe[nl]ix: [sorry, was away] I dunno, it may well be that the all-in-one bundle's tangible technical convenience is actually more valuable to you than whatever potential PR gains (that you may not even care much about) the split iolib would bring? besides, that would require making releases, and coordinating them. that's boring work. 18:27:10 tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.181] has joined #lisp 18:28:28 aoh [~aki@80.75.102.51] has joined #lisp 18:28:52 -!- me345 [~me345@adsl-75-15-246-50.dsl.bkfd14.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:29:25 Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 18:30:56 kraison [~kraison@70.90.182.149] has joined #lisp 18:34:35 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 18:39:47 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp3255.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: A subtle thought that is in error may yet give rise to fruitful inquiry that can establish truths of great value.] 18:40:38 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 18:41:34 Why is (cons 'this 'that) output as (THIS . THAT) ? 18:41:50 It can't be read back in, so I'm running into trouble with it in a macro 18:42:04 seangrove: it sure can be read back in. 18:42:24 seangrove: the cons cell has 'this in its CAR slot and 'that in its CDR slot 18:42:27 (read-from-string "(THIS . THAT)") 18:42:43 seangrove: if you want a list, use LIST 18:43:08 Hmm, I should paste the code 18:43:23 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp3255.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 18:43:27 Yes. 18:43:48 what did you expect that form to return? 18:44:21 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 18:45:13 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:45:19 pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-66-233.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:45:31 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.68.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:46:52 I can't seem to submit on paste.lisp.org 18:47:02 I think it's there, but I'm never redirected to see the link 18:47:17 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.115.209.11] has joined #lisp 18:47:39 http://paste.lisp.org/display/116955 18:47:42 seangrove ^^ 18:48:19 Erm.. 18:48:22 How? :) 18:48:35 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 18:48:45 there's a little tab in the toppage of paste.lisp.org that shows 'recent pastes' 18:48:53 Ah, guess I could use that 18:48:59 I'm not sure why the paste bot is doing that, but it started last week. 18:49:13 In any case, it's the output in (defun new-person ...) 18:49:37 I want it to return the assoc list as I've constructed it in the LET statement 18:50:09 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 18:50:13 seangrove: add a (quote ...) around it. 18:50:23 hmm 18:50:51 Yup, that did ity 18:51:00 Makes sense! 18:51:16 *seangrove* can feel his mind becoming more twisted by CL every day 18:51:38 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-231-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:53:09 it's not twisted, it's curved like a parenthesis. 18:54:18 -!- tama [~tama@pool-71-164-234-131.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:54:37 tama [~tama@pool-71-164-234-131.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:56:23 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:56:51 *p_l|uni* wonders if anyone made a joke about parens' curves and female curves 18:57:09 <[df]> I did so in my head just now 18:57:24 not likely any joke that actually caused laughter. ;) 18:57:48 mgr: what's the state of acclaim? 18:57:48 Taiyou` [~Taiyou@bas3-toronto47-1279335115.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 19:00:37 bsod1 [~osa1@188.56.212.217] has joined #lisp 19:00:50 Fade: ;-) 19:00:50 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@178.2.111.102] has quit [Quit: humhum] 19:00:52 p_l|uni: The appreciation of one may inhibit the appreciation of the other? 19:01:03 so yeah i should really start making some basic lisp programs than to just test things in sbcl like ive been doing, any recommendations for simple starting point? 19:01:46 -!- Manifesto [~doxem@189.107.110.161] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:02:15 a guy yesterday recommended doing my homework with lisp but ive currently got none and im not at a level whereas i could do my homework with vim 19:02:20 er, lisp 19:02:29 how do I kill buffer in emacs without having to press return like in C-x k 19:02:38 syntard: Try asking in #emacs. 19:02:53 Doxem [~doxem@189.107.10.58] has joined #lisp 19:02:54 <[df]> Craig`: I find project euler a good source of programming problems 19:03:05 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 19:03:14 [df], i find that too, its just im terrible at the problems 19:03:27 i mean, after the first couple im clueless 19:03:36 <[df]> heh, I suppose most of them don't count as 'simple', yeah 19:03:46 C-x k runs the command kill-buffer 19:03:53 syntard: see describe-key 19:04:23 [df], yeah i should say im not that advanced programming so euler isnt best candidate for me :) 19:04:50 Odin-: doubtful. Though parens seem to at least return the appreciation, in weird way. ;-) 19:05:11 <[df]> Craig`: alternatively you could take the more practical approach and write some stuff that makes your life easier 19:05:44 well that is what others have said, i always find my ideas to be too difficult 19:05:51 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 19:06:51 <[df]> Craig`: have you worked through some tutorial-type stuff like PCL? 19:07:07 -!- drdo [~user@194.210.228.119] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:07:54 currently working through it, havent read in depth - just observed/tested code -, guess i should fully read 19:08:10 i ordered that book for x-mas :) 19:09:32 Where does the latest flow of newcomers come from? Land of Lisp? 19:09:41 -!- wuj [~wuj@pool-74-108-177-147.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:10:23 tcr: LoL got reviewed on /. and the comments on that article made me ask if Lisp might not be a good choice for me. 19:10:41 i received the news of LoL via twitter 19:12:27 srcerer_ [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 19:13:05 Been slow to actually explore it, though. Dealing with writing a plugin for Openfire to integrate with vBulletin. BTW, Java sucks. 19:13:55 -!- srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:13:57 -!- srcerer_ is now known as srcerer 19:16:01 -!- don_alvarez [~user@lazaro.lab.ic.unicamp.br] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:16:37 b-man_ [~b-man@187.65.241.7] has joined #lisp 19:17:13 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:18:52 -!- redline6561 [~redline@gate-30.spsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:23:13 -!- xan_ [~xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:25:28 Inside a macro, I have a LET statement that I'd like to evaluate one of the arguments passed into the macro - I can't do that without a backtick, right? 19:26:16 seangrove: backtick is just convenient syntax for a kind of template. 19:26:47 seangrove: a macro takes code as its argument and returns code as its value. backtick helps with that but anything you can do with it can be done without, though in possibly a more verbose way. 19:27:15 `(let ((foo ,arg)) ...) is one thing you could do, possibly. 19:27:48 seangrove: pasting would help with useful feedback. 19:27:52 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-231-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:29:27 unicode [~user@95.214.79.67] has joined #lisp 19:30:31 -!- unicode [~user@95.214.79.67] has quit [Client Quit] 19:30:52 unicode [~user@95.214.79.67] has joined #lisp 19:31:55 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 19:32:32 udzinari [~opera@nat/ibm/x-eahcndyaswjlqoie] has joined #lisp 19:32:51 compmstr [~compmstr@adsl-074-185-008-197.sip.clt.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:11 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:57 if you were to make a small vm for a mostly basic clbuild/quicklisp/emacs et.al powered cl dev. environment with the intent of sharing it via torrent, which distro would you pick? (I am leaning towards simple debian based install) 19:36:19 I like Debian, personally. Was just recently educated, though: You can use Debian, but can't use its lisp packages. You have to download/install the ones you need outside of its packaging system. 19:37:19 mpedersen: I know that much, just trying to choose a small distro 19:37:29 Oh, didn't know that. Sorry. 19:38:16 -!- lanthan_afh [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 19:38:20 Xach: Will paste in a moment 19:38:32 If you're not going to include X, then Debian is one of the smallest you're going to get, I think. Linux From Scratch might be a good option to consider as well. 19:38:39 udzinari: I'd probably look at the debian netinstall image. 19:38:44 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-24-147-116-20.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:38:55 either that or grml 19:39:38 mpedersen:udzinari: I often install SBCL using the package checkinstall--which will create a package out of any "make install"-able pile of code and give you a Debian package ready for installation 19:39:58 That way I at least get to use Debian's tools to manage my specific SBCL build as package. 19:40:19 Works on Ubuntu as well--no problems 19:40:24 gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.231.171] has joined #lisp 19:40:43 Xach: The *server* is what I'm trying to get to evaluate http://paste.lisp.org/display/116961 19:41:18 hargettp: ty for that hint 19:41:26 yw :) 19:41:27 Personally, I've been switching myself into using bitbucket more and more, and have a repository to stash all this stuff. 19:42:16 seangrove: Don't do the ensure-db work at macroexpansion time. Return code that does the ensure-db work at runtime. 19:42:59 Makes sense - would that make sense in the new-function? 19:43:18 I don't know. 19:43:38 Ok, just wasn't sure 19:44:43 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-218-150.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:45:49 varjag_ [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:54:09 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 19:56:01 -!- kaemo [~mad5ci@d38-66.icpnet.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:57:09 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 19:58:28 kaemo [~mad5ci@d38-66.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:59:21 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has left #lisp 19:59:36 i need a repl loop for clisp, something like (loop (print (eval (read)))) with prompt 20:00:05 unicode: prepl is something like that. 20:00:14 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.235.211] has joined #lisp 20:00:31 unicode: do you find the default clisp repl unsatisfactory for some reason? 20:00:33 pavelludiq [~quassel@83.222.167.236] has joined #lisp 20:01:01 no, just i would to customize the prompt 20:01:28 unicode: you can already customize the clisp prompt. 20:01:36 http://clisp.sourceforge.net/impnotes.html#prompt has information about how to do it. 20:02:37 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-24-147-116-20.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:03:11 :Xach ok thanks 20:03:18 -!- rrice1 [~rrice@adsl-69-221-165-176.dsl.akrnoh.ameritech.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:04:40 unicode: Why did you ask on comp.lang.lisp and here simultaneously? 20:05:04 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 20:05:15 i couldn't find a reference 20:05:17 hmmm... I haven't dealt with usenet myself for years. Is comp.lang.lisp worth following? 20:05:41 unicode: In the future, I suggest asking here and waiting a few minutes before posting. 20:05:55 ok 20:06:03 mpedersen: Yes. It's best to use a newsreader that allows you to read selectively. Not all of it is worth reading. 20:06:45 I use gnus and its scoring system to hide the things I least enjoy. 20:06:51 Okay. Now to figure out how I'm going to follow it. Wait, emacs... emacs does news reading. Almost forgot about that. 20:10:03 It's been long time since I've programmed in lisp now, and it seems like the playing I've done with haskell has improved my lisp :) 20:10:52 Wasn't the comp.lang.lisp abandoned in favor for the mailing list recently created? 20:11:33 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:13:19 symbole: No. 20:13:39 symbole: what mailing list? 20:13:54 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 20:13:54 a secret mailing list 20:13:57 felideon: I'm guessing the "pro" mailing list. 20:14:01 It's for the secret cabal. 20:14:07 So secret it was on reddit within 90 seconds. 20:14:12 lol 20:14:14 sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:14:14 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:14:35 It's not a very good secret cabal, is it? 20:14:39 pro@common-lisp.net 20:14:43 -!- Craig` [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:14:55 One of the worst. 20:14:59 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.1.42.8] has joined #lisp 20:16:01 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:16:24 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 20:17:07 -!- PCMX [~dborba@pool-74-105-202-55.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:17:15 petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:17:44 rme: it takes refuge in audacity 20:17:49 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@61.99.46.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:18:25 s/audacity/stupidity 20:18:37 *syntard* has very strong opinion on things he knows nothing about. 20:18:53 you would fit in just great in c.l.l 20:20:41 Xach: Krystof was making some noises the other day about carrying out my plan for someone to take over the ALU. (Re your recent email.) 20:22:54 He sounds pretty busy for that kind of thing. 20:23:13 Likely so. 20:23:31 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:23:33 Though it wouldn't take long to auction off lisp.org and shutdown the ALU. ;-) 20:24:22 nah, not auction, just make replace the ALU pages :P 20:24:49 p_l|uni: the only way that's going to happen--as far is I can tell--is if it belongs to someone else. 20:24:56 Thus the auction. 20:25:22 :O 20:26:02 gigamonkey: Who are the members of the ALU today? Just the people who went to ILC? 20:26:14 and board members who couldn't make it? 20:26:23 It seems like the board has membership almost outnumbered. 20:26:59 let's redirect ALU to Cliki 20:27:03 Xach: dunno. 20:27:44 But if folks wanted it to change (including being shutdown) it probably wouldn't be too hard to find twenty folks or so to become members in order to have a dominant voting block. Or at least that's always been my theary. 20:27:46 theory. 20:27:51 gigamonkey: Seems like a determined board, aware of your plan, could thwart it. 20:27:53 cmm: exactly. keeping in sync(and releasing) 10+ libraries would be a major PITA 20:28:01 gigamonkey: Not a very good secret plan! 20:28:22 *felideon* copy&pastes to reddit 20:28:32 :P 20:28:53 jesusabdullah [~jesusabdu@li225-26.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 20:29:01 "gigamonker shouts about shutdowning lisp!" 20:29:45 noises noises noises 20:30:15 I mostly made those noises because I called dherring out about his comments on Xach's blog that the european lispers were all failing to make viable groups happen 20:30:31 urandom__ [~user@p548A5B5F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:30:32 I said that "saying there's a rumour about this is a good way to make sure there's a rumour about it" 20:31:19 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@187.65.241.7] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:31:24 what is the exciting context for the s3krit plan discussion this time? 20:31:36 Xach: I'm not to worried about the board getting together to thwart anything. 20:31:53 Or do much of anything else. 20:32:01 georgek [~george@c-24-17-224-196.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:02 gigamonkey: Yeah, a determined, cooperating board does not sound like the ALU board I've seen for the past few years. But still. 20:32:16 schmrkc, Okay i am going to do it like this but I don't really see how with hashtable and still without test condition 20:32:37 Krystof: dherring was asking (not here) about whether there were any good candidates for ALU board membership. 20:33:00 haha 20:33:48 if only the association of lisp users were an association of lisp users 20:35:43 -!- pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-66-233.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:36:55 gigamonkey: what about post-takeover ALU, with the actual care of the pages "subcontracted" to community? Cause if you put it on auction, unless we execute a complex plan, it will end up being about routing protocols 20:37:52 I don't see anyone here winning a bidding war with CISCO :) 20:39:34 I'm not sure I understand what you're worried about. By "auction" I just mean, find a new owner who would do something better with it than the current owner. 20:39:58 ah 20:40:12 -!- austinh [~austinh@c-67-189-92-40.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:40:41 http://www.tfeb.org/lisp/mad-people.html <-- This list makes me go wtf. 20:41:10 ah, ilias 20:41:12 the good old days 20:41:30 gigamonkey: I thought more of keeping the actual ownership and payment for lisp.org domain with ALU, and *possibly* managing hosting fees this way, but make the running of the page itself much more open 20:41:59 pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-66-233.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:42:44 p_l|uni: well, that assumes you can find eight people who want to serve as the board of the ALU. 20:43:09 Which you may. I was pointing out that if you can't there are other options. 20:43:18 I was also (partly) joking. 20:44:05 gigamonkey: unfortunately my abilities in that area are limited... I could probably help with the website etc. but I don't have access to people who can attend meetings in person :/ 20:44:17 Meetings are all by phone. 20:44:29 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 20:44:33 Currently. Obviously a new board can do what it wants, within the limits of the bylaws. 20:44:46 (Including, I imagine, changing the bylaws.) 20:45:27 francogrex [~user@109.130.92.173] has joined #lisp 20:46:07 hi, what is sb-pcl ? 20:46:49 francogrex: sbcl's Portable CommonLoops code. 20:47:32 Xach: ok thanks. do you know id anything equivalent exists for ecl? 20:47:56 francogrex: I don't know. That seems like an odd request. What would you do if you found something equivalent? 20:48:04 Are you porting some code that uses sb-pcl? 20:48:22 yes here: 20:49:35 http://paste.lisp.org/display/116963 20:51:35 ... i think this should be doable with c2mop instead of that patchwork, but I am unsure 20:51:59 homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-181-39.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:53:33 where does defconstant-once come from? 20:54:18 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-190-239.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:54:34 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.1.42.8] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 20:56:01 etate [~meta@5e0427ef.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 20:56:03 (defmacro defconstant-once (name &rest args) ... 20:56:10 /mnt/home/Python/clpython/util/utils.lisp 20:56:29 all right 20:56:32 it seems to me like it tries to do the same thing as closer-mop 20:56:32 uh 20:56:34 uh 20:56:35 uh 20:56:39 hello, i was wondering whether it was a bad idea to backtrack on a stream after reading a token, by setting the stream position back to before that token? 20:56:55 are you sure you don't want to be using the class-name accessor? 20:57:16 etate: in general, you can't set stream positions 20:57:36 Krystof: in Racket you can set the stream position 20:57:37 you can for streams backed by files, but (probably) not interactive or socket streams, unless the implementation does heroic things for you 20:57:47 ah 20:57:53 well, i'm just trying to add ecl support to what was defined already, so if there is #+ecl 'pcl::name ... 20:58:10 erory [~rory_elri@203-206-172-3.perm.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 20:58:16 Krystof: so is there anyway of getting token lookahead from a stream for lexing? 20:58:52 I don't think so 20:58:58 token lookahead is potentially infinite 20:59:23 well, i mean just 3 token lookahead 21:00:28 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-126-135.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:00:29 i'm wondering how in haskell you can get unlimited lookahead from an input without looking ahead in a stream 21:00:59 -!- schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:01:05 schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 21:01:34 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:00 well, if you think haskell, why not try monadic parsers? 21:02:40 etate: http://common-lisp.net/~dcrampsie/smug.html 21:02:47 syntard: I don't really "think" haskell, i just can't find a nice way of parsing that doesn't get unwieldy or inflexible 21:02:53 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:03:02 in particular whilst lexing & parsing streams 21:03:45 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:03:49 etate: well, I found smug easy enough 21:04:46 maybe I'll download and work with pcl 21:05:08 syntard: i don't see lexxing in this example, i'm confused 21:05:23 etate: ok, sorry 21:05:33 :D 21:06:58 -!- novaburst [~novaburst@sourcemage/mage/novaburst] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:07:12 etate: in racket you can also set the stream position for some streams but not for others -- no magic there. 21:07:59 eli: yeah, i've tried this approach and it works well, but apparently doesn't work for some streams, which is a bit of an annoyance 21:08:00 In Haskell, IIRC, you can kind of get an unlimited lookahead -- but doing that means that you'll be holding the looked-ahead part in memory. 21:08:37 eli: I don't really mind holding things in memory, I don't need unlimited lookahead, just 1 or 2 21:09:13 etate: maybe build an abstraction on the stream? 21:09:15 If it's *that* limited, then you can easily wrap any kind of IO functionality with your own at-most-2-char lookahead... 21:09:31 *syntard* nods at eli. 21:09:51 -!- kmwallio [~kmwallio@host113-70.brownlie.fit.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:10:11 The Haskell advantage in that case is that you can get that automatically (kind of -- since you need to be careful not to end up holding the whole thing in memory). 21:10:33 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:10:52 The Racket advantage is that you can use arbitrary peeking (eg, `regexp-try-match'), and it will hold on to the peeked characters if you didn't consume them. 21:11:13 (And my guess is that many CLs will give you something equivalent.) 21:11:32 eli: so far i've been using the parser-tools/lex and parser-tools/sre, and setting the position manually, is that a bad idea? 21:11:45 eli: my fears also stem from a fear (perhaps irrational) of seeking a lot on a stream 21:12:28 etate: I'd revisit that when it comes up as an issue 21:13:12 pkhuong_: well actually initially i thought it wouldn't work at all since characters can vary in bytes, so position -1 on one stream may mean something else to a stream with a different encoding 21:13:27 jconrad_ [~jconrad@host109-153-57-171.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:13:37 so i thought, there must be a 'perfect' solution for this that i'm clueless about 21:14:01 etate: If you're talking about racket, then there's no reason to manually set your position... (regexp-match-peek #rx#"^.." (current-input-port)) will return the next two bytes and will silently keep them for further reading. 21:14:18 -!- jconrad [~jconrad@host86-147-31-181.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:14:18 -!- jconrad_ is now known as jconrad 21:14:31 LiamH: I ran into promblems installing gsll. I'm pretty pants at figuring out these kind of problems, so if you have time: https://gist.github.com/712546 I'd really appreciate it. 21:14:32 humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 21:14:34 -!- jsnikeris [~user@pool-98-114-175-66.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:15:02 jsnikeris [~user@pool-98-114-175-66.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:15:11 jesusabdullah: looks like you don't have the libffi headers installed. 21:15:20 jesusabdullah: what kind of operating system do you use? 21:15:30 eli: so it basically buffers the stream for you but under the hood actually reads? 21:15:32 But I do! :( 21:15:33 What Xach says 21:15:35 Zahl_: Fedora 21:15:38 er 21:15:41 Xach: Fedora 21:15:49 character streams work with characters, but only allow single character lookahead. You'll have to wrap those with a data structure that buffers into/from a string. 21:15:55 jesusabdullah: Where is ffi.h on your system? 21:16:05 -!- udzinari [~opera@nat/ibm/x-eahcndyaswjlqoie] has left #lisp 21:16:07 Let's find out. 21:16:14 etate: Yes -- if you try that with the repl's stdin you'll see that the stuff that it returns is used for later interactions. 21:16:18 In debian the package is libffi-dev, not sure about fedora 21:17:13 oh sweet 21:17:33 jesusabdullah: looks like libffi-devel in Fedora 21:17:40 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.92.173] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:17:57 Yeah 21:18:16 It's already installed 21:18:22 jesusabdullah: Where? 21:18:44 Trying to find it >_< 21:18:45 pkhuong_, eli: thanks, i'll create a data structure that buffers from a character input stream 21:19:43 -!- fogus` [c6970d0f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.151.13.15] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:19:49 jesusabdullah: try "locate ffi.h" 21:20:28 /usr/lib/libffi-3.0.5/include/ffi.h 21:20:48 apparently 21:20:57 (seems like a weird place to me) 21:21:10 symlink from /usr/include ? 21:21:14 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A5B5F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:21:18 that does look odd; mine (Debian testing) is /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/ffi.h 21:21:32 That would make sense wouldn't it? 21:21:59 I'm gonna switch distros again sometime 21:22:06 fedora was alright, but, yeesch 21:22:13 some of the issues are just weird 21:22:33 anyway, Fedora is out of my realm of expertise, but go to the file libffi-unix.lisp and edit the include statement; you can see the Darwin example there 21:22:52 That's buried in the quicklisp folders? 21:23:33 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 21:23:33 LiamH: see why a ./configure phase would be very useful in ASDF ? 21:23:47 quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/fsbv*-git 21:24:05 LiamH: you could just call pkgconfig then 21:24:12 fe[nl]ix: you don't have to convince me, I've been struggling with this problem for a while 21:24:21 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.235.211] has left #lisp 21:24:26 fe[nl]ix: how do I do it? 21:25:23 LiamH: do what ? 21:25:24 fe[nl]ix: pkg-config fails for some OS X users 21:25:34 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 21:25:37 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-181-39.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:25:40 What does #+ mean? 21:25:48 jesusabdullah: conditional read 21:25:49 LiamH: then tell them to fix macports/whatever 21:25:52 fe[nl]ix: have configure phase in ASDF 21:26:17 jesusabdullah: see http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhq.htm 21:26:54 fe[nl]ix: Ah, there's the OS X issue; there are three different ways to install system software, and they each put it in a different place. 21:27:13 LiamH: well, somebody should implement it then convince Faré and rpg that it's useful 21:27:36 jesusabdullah: edit the include form that has #-darwin before it, you can ignore the #+darwin one 21:27:47 *nod* 21:28:10 jesusabdullah: and if it works for you, tell me what the form is and I'll add it to FSBV. 21:28:31 Is :fedora in *features* ? 21:29:20 fe[nl]ix: Well I'm with you on whatever lobbying campaign you want to undertake. 21:30:00 LiamH: I'm sure there are more than 3 ways to install system software on the mac (-: 21:30:27 -!- etate [~meta@5e0427ef.bb.sky.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:30:33 I can think of macports, fink, homebrew, manual building, installers provided by some projects (: 21:30:35 jesusabdullah: I anticipate you will also have problems with GSL header files. Sadly, there are about a dozen files you'll have to edit there. 21:31:02 antifuchs: madness! 21:31:05 antifuchs: yeah, I basically threw up my hands, since I'm not an OS X user. 21:31:12 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:31:15 heh 21:31:24 fe[nl]ix: the only sane way to do it is to use homebrew, of course (: 21:31:36 LiamH: Yeah, another error with a more different header 21:31:54 LiamH: https://gist.github.com/712546 second file here 21:31:56 -!- humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 21:32:26 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 21:32:34 LiamH: I was able to locate ffitarget.h <_< 21:32:50 jesusabdullah: well I think you know the task then 21:33:45 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-181-39.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:33:52 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 21:33:57 I'm slowly folding FSBV into CFFI, then it will be luis' problem :-) 21:34:15 As long as it's the same file that I need to edit 21:34:43 -!- jconrad [~jconrad@host109-153-57-171.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:35:21 I'm a bit puzzled about ffitarget.h; for me that's in the same directory as ffi.h so it loads OK without explicit mention. 21:37:45 looks to be the same here 21:37:48 :S 21:38:06 jmckitrick [~user@adsl-92-243-131.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 21:39:47 Joreji [~thomas@67-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 21:40:20 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 21:40:48 antifuchs: there's also Gentoo-prefix, that can be installed in a user's homedir 21:41:36 fe[nl]ix: so, I count 6 ways (-: 21:41:40 still, homebrew ftw (: 21:41:45 rff [~rff@ip72-207-243-174.br.br.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:42:27 LiamH: Adding (include "/usr/lib/libffi-3.0.5/include/ffitarget.h") 21:42:31 doesn't seem to help 21:43:36 jesusabdullah: ah, I misspoke 21:43:49 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 21:44:04 You want to set the cc-flags form, not the include form. See the #+darwin example in libffi-unix.lisp. 21:44:20 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:44:35 So, (cc-flags "-I/usr/lib/libffi-3.0.5/include/") 21:45:14 that should cover both ffi.h and ffitarget.h if they're both in that dir 21:45:31 Ah 21:45:38 okay! We will try that 21:45:57 (we being me and myself?) 21:46:29 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-106-138-18.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 21:47:30 antifuchs: also http://rudix.org/ and http://www.toastball.net/toast/ and http://www.gnu.org/software/stow/ 21:47:51 oh wow lots more dots this time 21:47:54 this is good news! 21:48:08 oh sweet ode action 21:48:14 *jesusabdullah* rubs his hands 21:48:40 ! I think it worked? 21:49:11 Loading the tests to be sure 21:49:11 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:49:28 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.48.210] has joined #lisp 21:49:40 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:49:47 rokstar [~rokstar@d221-90-121.commercial.cgocable.net] has joined #lisp 21:51:01 -!- jmckitrick [~user@adsl-92-243-131.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:53:40 craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 21:54:30 LiamH: Ran the tests, had 189 failures. You interested in what they are? 21:55:04 francogrex [~user@109.130.92.173] has joined #lisp 21:55:29 does (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :execute :load-toplevel) ... behave differently for different implementations? 21:58:03 rootzlevel [~hpd@91-66-217-160-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 21:58:22 -!- craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:00:13 -!- kclifton [~kclifton@s198-166-45-245.ab.hsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: kclifton] 22:02:21 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:02:47 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 22:03:05 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 22:03:55 dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:57 francogrex: it's possible that there be some differences, since a given implementation may not have a compiler, or compiled files to load. But otherwise, I never noted a difference. You can easily run a test. 22:04:08 -!- Joreji [~thomas@67-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:04:46 At least, for such a top-level form. For eval-when in non-toplevel forms, the rules are hard to understand, so there may be non-confomring implementations... 22:06:05 does this make any sense: (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :load-toplevel :execute) (defun test () (print "yes"))) 22:06:25 pjb: ok, trying to get it 22:06:53 -!- varjag_ [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:08:02 -!- aoh [~aki@80.75.102.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:08:16 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 22:09:11 and what is it supposed to achieve really? 22:10:34 xan_ [~xan@26.Red-88-24-228.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:11:56 I mean compared with when eval-when is not there at all... 22:13:12 It adds execution at compilation time and at fasl load time. 22:15:12 sloanr [~user@64.244.48.114] has joined #lisp 22:16:01 aoh [~aki@80.75.102.51] has joined #lisp 22:17:12 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:18:38 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.181] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 22:18:51 ok got it 22:19:10 -!- muhdik [~IceChat7@parkmobile-usa.oneringnetworks.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:19:35 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:21:15 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:21:35 -!- iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-150-188.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:22:27 -!- felideon [~felideon@173.221.53.122.nw.nuvox.net] has left #lisp 22:22:28 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:25:23 -!- bsod1 [~osa1@188.56.212.217] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:25:35 having a tough time porting cl-python into ecl 22:25:51 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 22:26:25 -!- georgek [~george@c-24-17-224-196.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:27:51 georgek [~george@c-24-17-224-196.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:20 having these: undefined reference to `clos_standard_instance_access' errors! 22:28:27 Are there any lisp packages to easily make server-client software 22:28:32 -!- pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-66-233.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo_] 22:29:29 calder [~calder@95.108.43.32] has joined #lisp 22:29:51 |Wolf| [~x@dyn57-495.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 22:29:55 -!- |Wolf| [~x@dyn57-495.yok.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 22:30:32 -!- calder [~calder@95.108.43.32] has left #lisp 22:31:57 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has left #lisp 22:32:16 -!- mbohun [~user@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:32:26 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:34:00 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.235.211] has joined #lisp 22:35:44 knobo: What would such a package include? 22:37:01 craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 22:37:05 hey again 22:37:30 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.235.211] has left #lisp 22:38:02 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-126-135.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 22:38:07 jconrad [~jconrad@host109-153-58-144.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 22:38:18 knobo: iolib, usocket and bordeaux-threads sound like "everything necessary" 22:38:50 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.235.211] has joined #lisp 22:39:11 pjb: Did you subscribe to the cmucl list? If not or you don't want to, you can forward the message to me and I'll forward it to the list. 22:39:31 -!- yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:40:01 -!- Taiyou` is now known as Taiyou 22:40:50 -!- Taiyou is now known as Taiyou` 22:40:56 pjb: Or, if your motivated, add a ticket for cmucl trac at http://trac.common-lisp.net/cmucl. You have to have a c-l.net account, though. 22:41:03 Er, you're, not your. 22:41:06 Joreji [~thomas@67-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 22:41:07 or hunchentoot, and maybe some rpc package. 22:41:12 yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:41:23 rvirding [~chatzilla@h137n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 22:42:06 -!- jsnikeris [~user@pool-98-114-175-66.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:42:22 jsnikeris [~user@pool-98-114-175-66.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:43:35 -!- marijnjh [~user@p5DDB283F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:45:35 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:48:34 p_l|uni: thanks 22:48:34 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 22:48:48 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has left #lisp 22:51:52 if I have a function and a list is passed into it as a argument, I don't seem to be able to modify the list 22:53:26 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.92.173] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:53:27 I know that seems like a code smell... 22:53:45 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050066152.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:54:27 seangrove: you can modify the list; you can't modify the caller's binding to that list. 22:55:07 pkhuong_: So if I add an item to the list, the caller's list should reflect the change, right? 22:55:47 That's not the behavior I'm seeing, but it seems like it's right :P 22:56:16 jesusabdullah: Partially. The ones that are numerical fuzz errors I'm not interested in, I know why they occur. That will likely be most of them. Anything else is interesting. 22:57:38 seangrove: add how? if you use (setf cdr), sure. 22:58:00 pkhuong_: http://paste.lisp.org/display/116970 22:58:20 jesusabdullah: Also If you could sent a patch file for how you changed the cc-flags forms etc., I will try to incorporate it. What is your *features*? 22:58:31 pkhuong_: One moment, let me paste +-> 22:59:03 seangrove: that would have to be a macro. 22:59:08 clhs define-modify-macro 22:59:15 http://paste.lisp.org/display/116970#1 22:59:16 dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-66.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 22:59:22 Oh really? 22:59:26 Why is that? 22:59:44 jesusabdullah: it's best if you join the mailing list and send the stuff there 22:59:47 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-094-158.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 22:59:51 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:01:47 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 23:04:47 -!- firecrow8 [~fcrow@69.38.169.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:05:33 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:05:48 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:07:20 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.231.171] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:09:27 abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:09:57 pkhuong_: I define-modify-macro won't work with generics, I think 23:10:19 Which I suppose is fine for now, just seems dangerous 23:10:56 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:11:01 skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #lisp 23:12:52 LiamH: What do you mean by *features* ? 23:13:03 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.235.211] has left #lisp 23:13:06 What's in it? 23:13:24 Type it in and paste the output somewhere 23:13:39 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:13:42 or tell me what in there is fedora-looking 23:14:00 It's what the #+ and #- use. 23:15:28 Actually, there's probably nothing that identifies it as fedora; mine only has :linux and doesn't identify the distro. 23:15:46 I just realized that I don't actually know how to load packages in lisp >_< 23:16:25 hey there's #lispcafe. it's all about loading packages 23:17:04 jesusabdullah: you know about quicklisp, right? 23:22:24 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour5-2-0-cust921.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:24:50 LiamH: I was able to get that far---I mean, I installed it using quicklisp--but aside from the how you install things stuff, not really :( 23:24:54 brb learning2google 23:25:29 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-147-39.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:25:36 Welcome to the new world (Lisp) order: quicklisp is all you need. 23:25:43 heh 23:27:10 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-66.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:27:28 Okay--I didn't see anything fedora-looking 23:27:50 ope I lied 23:27:51 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-88-41.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:28:23 O_o 23:28:29 LiamH: CLC-OS-FEDORA is in *features* 23:28:32 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-9-79.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:28:52 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:29:10 fedora actually does that? That's funny stuff. 23:29:41 It's good, considering that fedora dumps its headers in all sorts of screwy places 23:29:44 :) 23:29:50 jesusabdullah: OK, thanks. It probably doesn't matter much because I think it's OK to specify paths that don't exist. Do you know how to make a git patch? 23:31:04 I guess it's CLC that does it. fedora uses CLC, huh? 23:31:13 I know how to use git, but I've never made a patch. 23:31:32 jesusabdullah: If you do, make patches for FSBV and GSLL, join the mailing list, and send them there. If you don't you can look at the bottom of the GSLL web page, or if you don't use git, just send diff -u outputs. 23:32:22 jesusabdullah: basically it's git format-patch origin 23:32:29 Okay, cool 23:33:11 That is once you've committed your patches. It will make one or more files starting with 0001-... and you can attach them to an email. 23:33:40 Okay, cool 23:34:21 It'll probably be sometime in the next few days 23:34:35 Great, thanks. 23:34:44 Yeah, no problem 23:34:57 On behalf of future Fedora users :-) 23:35:11 I'll also look into seeing how many of the tests are "interesting" 23:36:03 Anyone thought of this before? http://paste.lisp.org/display/116974 (destructuring-defun) 23:36:33 jesusabdullah: Yeah, that's a tough one. The short story is the tests I originally put in don't have a good estimate of allowable numerical error. The newer ones do, but it's a lot of work to replace the old ones. So if you're on e.g. 32 bit system, there are a lot of meaningless errors reported. 23:39:41 xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-21-168.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:40:19 jesusabdullah: Oops, I just realized something. As a quicklisp user, you don't have a git repository, so the git format-patch won't do anything for you. So if you can, just send the diff -u outputs. Thanks. 23:41:35 jconrad_ [~jconrad@host109-153-43-236.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 23:41:51 peddie [~peddie@c-67-169-8-107.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:41:51 knobo: What would you use it for? 23:42:13 -!- jconrad [~jconrad@host109-153-58-144.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:42:13 -!- jconrad_ is now known as jconrad 23:42:35 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:42:35 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 23:42:35 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 23:42:39 descructuring the argument list (d-defun foo ((first second &rest rest) more-args) ...) 23:42:47 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-159-143.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:43:03 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:43:20 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@218.82.57.220] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:43:21 knobo: it's great for stabbing yourself in the back 23:43:41 syntard: how? 23:43:57 I'm interested. 23:44:32 knobo: So what is the actual use case for it? 23:45:04 schmrkc: just a bit more pretty code. 23:45:06 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Client Quit] 23:45:36 prettier than what? 23:45:46 -!- eugu [~eugene@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:46:18 what is the use-case for destructuring-bind anyway. Maybe I missunderstood something 23:46:58 -!- lovesan [~lovesan@188.122.231.139] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:47:40 Damnit 23:47:45 it's for destructuring and binding. 23:47:48 -!- georgek [~george@c-24-17-224-196.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:48:17 I have a set-alist that I use in a defsetf to set items in assoc lists, and that works just fine 23:48:31 It looks up an item by the key, and then uses rplacd to change the value 23:48:42 But I can't seem to figure out how to *add* a new cons to the list 23:48:51 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-147-39.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:48:54 kanru [~kanru@114-45-232-142.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 23:48:55 seangrove: with setf? 23:49:05 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-221-135.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:49:15 schmrkc: why not just use let? 23:49:17 syntard: I'm trying to wrap setf in a function 23:49:18 -!- craiggles [~craig@host81-141-115-9.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:49:38 knobo: Because let is a bitch for destructuring. 23:51:30 seangrove: that's not going to work. 23:51:36 seangrove: just create a different function 23:52:05 -!- unicode [~user@95.214.79.67] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:52:09 Unless you're mucking about with a dynamically variable. 23:52:10 gigamonkey and syntard: http://paste.lisp.org/display/116970#2 23:52:46 I don't understand why the change doesn't take place :P 23:53:02 I feel like it's a scope or a reference point I'm not getting 23:53:19 seangrove: hehe 23:53:24 knobo: Say you have a function that returns ((1 2 3) 4 (5 6 7)) and you want to bind those 7 values. That's a messy bitch with LET. 23:54:34 But how is wrapping a defun in destructuring-bind stabbing one self in the back? 23:54:59 seangrove: like gigamonkey said, need to declare list special 23:55:09 seangrove: When you setf list in +-> you're just changing a local variable. (local to the function call) 23:55:19 Except that you don't want to do that. 23:55:20 gigamonkey: That's what I thought... 23:55:39 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 23:55:44 What you want to do is write the function to return the new value and then use setf where you call the function. 23:55:47 knobo: I don't know. 23:56:01 Or you can write a macro but I doubt that's a good idea. 23:56:04 gigamonkey: The syntax for that is quite ugly though I think 23:56:04 (In this case.) 23:56:16 I was thinking the macro way would make it look nice - why is it a bad idea? 23:56:21 Depends what you're trying to do, I guess. 23:56:31 seangrove: why not use nconc? 23:56:46 syntard: Blech. 23:57:08 seangrove: if you want a mutable data structure you probably don't want to use an alist. 23:57:43 If you want a person to be a bag of arbitrary properties you can do something like: 23:57:55 (defclass person () ((properties :initform nil :accessor properties))) 23:58:03 -!- fgump [~gump@188.74.82.177] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:58:05 Then properties can be an alist. 23:58:40 setf that all day long 23:58:41 You could also, I think define a setf expander to do what you want. 23:58:42 schmrkc: aha.. It wasn't you who said that. it was syntard 23:58:56 syntard: I don't know nconc, will look it up 23:59:19 knobo: find a good use case for that, till that all I see is argument obfuscation 23:59:41 seangrove: sorry to lead you down nconc path 23:59:47 gigamonkey: I did that kind of, but I don't know how to add a new item in a defsetf