00:02:17 -!- dfox_ [~dfox@ip-84-42-201-69.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:02:59 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@83.222.190.105] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:10:14 -!- ajmorgan [~ajmorgan@70.102.51.102] has quit [Quit: ajmorgan] 00:13:12 ajmorgan [~ajmorgan@70.102.51.102] has joined #lisp 00:13:12 homie` [~user@xdsl-78-34-204-231.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:13:58 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-109-36.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:16:21 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-78-34-204-231.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 00:17:01 lichtblau: it's probably harmless, but I get the following: /Users/sly/src/clbuild2/internal/download.sh: line 147: test: too many arguments 00:17:15 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:17:33 also, I guess there's no more main projects? 00:21:14 bulibuta [~bulibuta@178.156.150.24] has joined #lisp 00:21:14 -!- bulibuta [~bulibuta@178.156.150.24] has quit [Changing host] 00:21:14 bulibuta [~bulibuta@unaffiliated/bulibuta] has joined #lisp 00:23:18 -!- PCChris [~PCChris@wireless-165-124-137-201.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:24:05 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-87-46-139.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:24:36 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-204-231.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:27:04 mbohun [~user@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:27:30 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:31:40 and while I'm requesting features... it would be cool if clbuild quickload-dependencies mcclim just listed the dependencies 00:33:40 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:34:43 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:35:15 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:35:35 -!- devinus [~devinus@65.107.181.222.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:36:47 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 00:37:16 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:37:36 jweiss_ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:38:29 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@88.243.169.186] has left #lisp 00:38:36 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 00:39:32 katesmith_ [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 00:42:07 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 00:42:38 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:43:30 -!- superflit [~superflit@140.226.49.160] has quit [Quit: superflit] 00:43:49 superflit [~superflit@140.226.49.160] has joined #lisp 00:43:53 -!- superflit [~superflit@140.226.49.160] has quit [Client Quit] 00:44:32 -!- jweiss_ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:46:21 hmm postmodern git repo seems to be offline 00:48:14 guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-yhavgwpxphiqnwdu] has joined #lisp 00:52:18 slyrus: which? 00:52:55 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:53:42 whatever clbuild2 is looking for 00:53:56 http://marijn.haverbeke.nl/git/postmodern 00:55:14 looks like that's a gitweb thingy 00:57:41 the domain recently changed 00:58:22 https://github.com/marijnh/Postmodern.git looks like a better place to get it 00:58:26 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:58:26 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 00:58:26 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 00:58:30 that URL works, it's just not a git clone URL 00:59:33 git://github.com/marijnh/Postmodern.git 00:59:55 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:00:15 yeah, that would prolly work too 01:00:22 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 01:05:20 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:05:28 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:05:59 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:07:31 Ocaso [~chatzilla@203.156.243.14] has joined #lisp 01:11:00 -!- katesmith_ is now known as katesmith 01:11:48 nefo [~nefo@2402:f000:5:8f01::143:81] has joined #lisp 01:11:48 -!- nefo [~nefo@2402:f000:5:8f01::143:81] has quit [Changing host] 01:11:48 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 01:12:14 devinus [~devinus@cpe-66-68-82-202.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:12:37 PCChris [~PCChris@wireless-165-124-137-108.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has joined #lisp 01:12:53 -!- devinus [~devinus@cpe-66-68-82-202.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:16:53 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 01:18:38 -!- Ocaso [~chatzilla@203.156.243.14] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.12/20101026210630]] 01:19:08 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 01:19:18 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Client Quit] 01:21:21 -!- jconrad [~jconrad@host109-153-59-235.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: jconrad] 01:23:20 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 01:24:24 Hi everyone! 01:24:39 Hi drl. 01:25:31 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-112-174.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:25:35 -!- srolls [~user@167.216.131.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:26:18 I'm trying to learn how to use case. What am I doing wrong? http://paste.lisp.org/+2I1B 01:26:19 is a "dynamic variable" a defvar? 01:26:35 trybeingarun [~arun@59.92.49.30] has joined #lisp 01:27:01 drl: case uses EQL for comparison 01:28:25 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:28:54 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 01:29:30 yates, defvar defines a dynamic variable. 01:30:07 drl: i see - it's not an iff 01:30:12 and so does defparameter, so no, a dynamic variable does not imply a defvar 01:30:43 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-167-58.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:30:56 jweiss_ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:31:22 fgump [~gauthamg@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 01:32:12 -!- fgump [~gauthamg@188.74.82.177] has quit [Client Quit] 01:32:44 is it correct to say the term "symbol macro" has nothing to do with what cl normally terms macros? 01:32:48 yates: They are also referred to as "special variables". 01:33:07 Symbol macros are similar, but apply to atoms rather than forms. 01:33:08 Zhivago: dynamic variables are a subset of special variables 01:33:12 Well, it's not completely unrelated. 01:33:45 it is translated by the reader? 01:33:47 adeht: The difference being a proclamation? 01:33:52 Symbol macros are a bit like macros that take no parameters and don't use parentheses (roughly). 01:34:04 yates: No. By the macro-expander. 01:34:16 -!- trybeingarun [~arun@59.92.49.30] has left #lisp 01:34:34 Zhivago: I believe so 01:35:18 well, chap4 of pcl only speaks of two "boxes": the reader and the evaluator 01:35:40 There's also the compiler. Macro-expansion is part of compilation. 01:36:05 adeht: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/hyperspec/HyperSpec/Body/sec_3-1-2-1-1-2.html doesn't think so. 01:36:11 (or of evaluation in a pure interpreter, but these are really rare and not very practical) 01:36:39 Zhivago: right, I just looked at the glossary's definition for "special variable" 01:37:14 -!- jweiss_ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:44:40 _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has joined #lisp 01:45:07 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:46:55 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has left #lisp 01:47:45 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 01:50:20 -!- jeti [~user@p54B47544.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:53:13 tama [~tama@2001:0:53aa:64c:cef:1b5f:b85b:157c] has joined #lisp 01:53:51 aliudalius [~user@68.168.182.86] has joined #lisp 01:54:00 -!- dfkjjkfd 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02:59:31 rtoy [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 02:59:51 mega1 [~quassel@adsl-63-195-37-158.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:00:39 -!- rtoy [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Client Quit] 03:00:40 -!- Taiyou` [~Taiyou@141.117.174.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:00:47 rtoy [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 03:01:08 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-kcxjnmfipmpzorfb] has joined #lisp 03:01:17 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 03:03:50 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:05:07 good morning all 03:09:07 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-218-110.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:09:14 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-218-110.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:10:38 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:15:34 -!- rahul 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redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:34:29 iwillig [~ivan@ool-18b944f4.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:35:11 -!- TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@124-148-53-51.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:35:43 TraumaPwny [~TraumaPon@203-214-82-178.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 03:37:36 -!- TraumaPwny is now known as TraumaPony 03:38:23 Makoryu [~bloodgog@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:43:39 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-141-119.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 03:47:41 sbadger [~sbadger@c-76-27-21-59.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:50:17 Good morning everyone! 03:51:14 -!- dys``` [~andreas@krlh-5f7274fc.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:51:26 dys``` [~andreas@krlh-5f723355.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 03:54:01 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-179-143.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 03:54:56 beach, hello 03:58:20 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-218-110.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:02:32 ok, I've read sbcl source (serve-event and sb-bsd-sockes) for a good hour and I think I understood how add-fd-handler and so on work. but where is the call to serve-event. Is it generally done somehow? I see no call in araneida and no one in cl-blog. Also I couldn't find a general call in sbcl. 04:03:04 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:03:06 And is there some documentation of serve-event and add-fd-handler for sbcl? I looked through http://www.sbcl.org/manual/index.html 04:03:15 I've found a little bit for cmucl: http://common-lisp.net/project/cmucl/doc/cmu-user/serve-event.html 04:03:29 hello robert 04:04:29 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@58-73-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:04:56 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 04:06:11 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.81.222] has joined #lisp 04:06:28 HackingLemur [~HackingLe@96.18.164.16] has joined #lisp 04:12:08 smanek [~smanek@adsl-70-232-160-18.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:13:14 longshot_ [~longshot@207.204.226.230] has joined #lisp 04:15:12 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@b01-1.nat.iastate.edu] has quit [Quit: Kerrick] 04:15:20 -!- longshot [~longshot@216.131.74.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:16:20 -!- az [~az@p4FE4FA6F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:16:58 longshot [~longshot@180.184.13.62] has joined #lisp 04:17:08 -!- smanek [~smanek@adsl-70-232-160-18.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:17:09 -!- longshot [~longshot@180.184.13.62] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:17:58 longshot [~longshot@180.184.13.62] has joined #lisp 04:18:12 -!- longshot [~longshot@180.184.13.62] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:18:20 mgr: Eric Marsden has a simple example of serve-event for a tcp forwarder. 04:19:25 -!- longshot_ [~longshot@207.204.226.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:20:44 longshot [~longshot@180.184.13.62] has joined #lisp 04:21:39 -!- slava [~slava@li32-38.members.linode.com] has left #lisp 04:21:45 -!- longshot [~longshot@180.184.13.62] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:22:08 longshot [~longshot@216.131.74.24] has joined #lisp 04:22:49 syntard__ [~chatzilla@204.51.92.251] has joined #lisp 04:23:35 rtoym: thanks. I see it's for cmucl and calls serve-all-events in a loop. I'm interested in the sbcl specific behaviour (and some documention which I couldn't find). 04:23:46 az [~az@p5796C803.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:23:59 rtoym: but it's a nice little example 04:24:16 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:24:24 -!- syntard [~chatzilla@fl-74-4-76-189.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:24:30 mgr: I suspect serve-event in sbcl is quite similar to that in cmucl. But I don't actually know. 04:24:30 -!- syntard__ is now known as syntard 04:26:46 rtoym: yes, but I just couldn't find the call to serve-event in araneida/cl-blog/sbcl. and also no blocking IO (as I read that's also a time when fd-handlers are called) 04:27:16 but's time to go to bed, finally. see you 04:27:31 -!- Makoryu [~bloodgog@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:28:31 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 04:33:15 morning #lisp 04:35:11 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:36:26 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-gvchmptcvvxuhacr] has joined #lisp 04:39:09 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:40:18 hello schmrkc 04:40:41 Ralith_ [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:41:07 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 04:44:18 _nix00 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#lisp 13:23:12 rwallace: almost certainly 13:24:02 p_l|uni [~pl@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 13:24:52 Okay then, I can do the conditional compilation thing (or what ever the preferred term for it is in Lisp) if need be. I'll ask on stack overflow for pointers to the equivalent on the other major implementations 13:25:49 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-112-174.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 13:28:03 how hard could it be to find out on your own? 13:28:12 just look at what ROOM does 13:28:24 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@88.243.169.186] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:28:31 well, provided your implementation's sources are available 13:28:40 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.32] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:29:02 <`3b`> well, there might be some other supported interface in addition to whatever ROOM does, so still worth asking 13:29:08 stassats, I have run some Google searches and looked at the documentation for some of the implementations, but they seem to go into detail on everything except this. And many Lisp implementations are closed source. 13:29:46 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.54.141] has joined #lisp 13:30:31 rwallace: two out of eleven? 13:31:09 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:31:20 *rwallace* blinks. I didn't realize that was the proportion! 13:31:43 Though admittedly it has been awhile since I really looked over the available implementations 13:31:51 Sorry, more than two. 13:31:52 Xach: add SCL too 13:31:58 Right, I forgot Scieneer9~. 13:32:02 depending on the meaning of open-source, there are either 2 or 4 four closed source implementations out there 13:32:14 doesn't LW provide its sources for paying customers? 13:32:17 cause I'm unsure how much source is shipped with Scieneer 13:32:28 Corman includes source but disallows distribution of it 13:32:34 Xach: but i don't think i'd be different from CMUCL 13:32:43 Probably not. 13:32:58 a little - SCL includes system threads, iirc 13:33:34 cmucl has lisp::dynamic-usage 13:33:41 p_l|uni: yeah, but in this case, doesn't really matter on what terms you get the sources as long as you can see them 13:34:12 rtoym, thanks! That's two, then. 13:37:10 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:37:28 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 13:40:35 -!- kaemo [~mad5ci@d38-66.icpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: *puff*] 13:41:10 and yeah, I suspect Lispworks and Franz might be willing to give source to certain customers 13:42:19 -!- Krystof [~csr21@82-70-15-30.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:42:20 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-23.vpn.helsinki.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 13:46:04 ladida [~namai@213.226.169.13] has joined #lisp 13:46:41 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-78-34-235-239.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:47:22 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 13:47:57 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-112-174.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:51:36 -!- ladida [~namai@213.226.169.13] has quit [Quit: Reklamos bot gauk is www.zalgirieciai.tinkle.lt] 13:51:57 ladida [~namai@213.226.169.13] has joined #lisp 13:54:37 -!- ladida [~namai@213.226.169.13] has quit [Client Quit] 13:54:46 ladida [~namai@213.226.169.13] has joined #lisp 13:55:07 -!- MorganB [~user@64-238-171-196.cab.apt.gru.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:55:34 LiamH [~healy@129-2-135-218.wireless.umd.edu] has joined #lisp 13:55:52 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@109.179.140.169.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:57:32 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-235-239.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:58:12 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:59:38 jweiss_ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:00:42 -!- ladida [~namai@213.226.169.13] has quit [Quit: Reklamos bot gauk is www.zalgirieciai.tinkle.lt] 14:00:48 ladida [~namai@213.226.169.13] has joined #lisp 14:03:28 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 14:03:51 njan [~james@freenode/staff/njan] has joined #lisp 14:05:29 -!- jweiss_ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:05:52 replete [~pete@74.39.200.48] has joined #lisp 14:06:47 jweiss_ [~jweiss@254.sub-174-252-144.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 14:07:10 -!- ladida [~namai@213.226.169.13] has quit [K-Lined] 14:07:14 -!- drdo` [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:07:59 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@chello212186106204.11.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:08:11 zomgbie [~jesus@chello212186106204.11.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 14:10:08 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:10:14 -!- abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:10:57 hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-174.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 14:12:05 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:13:07 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 14:16:43 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 14:23:58 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 14:24:22 -!- LiamH [~healy@129-2-135-218.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:25:25 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-47.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:25:51 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 14:36:32 carlocci [~nes@93.37.221.98] has joined #lisp 14:40:05 -!- jweiss_ [~jweiss@254.sub-174-252-144.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:40:08 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.54.37] has joined #lisp 14:45:11 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 14:46:46 -!- ajmorgan [~ajmorgan@70.102.51.102] has quit [Quit: ajmorgan] 14:47:45 nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-179-143.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 14:48:53 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:51:17 sonnym [~evissecer@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has joined #lisp 14:53:47 -!- tfb [~tfb@92.41.82.34.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has quit [Quit: sleeping] 14:53:54 scharan [~scharan@117.192.4.27] has joined #lisp 14:54:18 -!- scharan [~scharan@117.192.4.27] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:55:50 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 14:57:16 stassats: I've pushed some changes more to my CommonQt repo but I wouldn't advise to merge yet. I've began adding support for marshalling variety of QLists and fixed can-marshal-p for qlists so that applicable methods can be found when some of arguments are lists, but there's a problem with reader macros 14:57:20 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-gvchmptcvvxuhacr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:58:09 good 14:58:34 *stassats* stumbled on a problem with QLayoutItems today 14:58:56 Please stop fixing the "gui problem" for lisp, or there will be no more excuses not to use it :~( 14:59:13 stassats: reader macros were using gensyms to name some macros and these gensyms were sometimes losing their identity when passed through SBCL macroexpander. I tried to fix it but instead got a problem with realoading fasls. Will fix it soon I think 14:59:38 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@167.80-203-136.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 15:00:01 scharan [~scharan@117.192.4.27] has joined #lisp 15:00:08 ivan4th: see https://github.com/stassats/commonqt/issues/#issue/1 15:00:21 -!- scharan [~scharan@117.192.4.27] has left #lisp 15:00:36 any insight is helpful. it somehow works for #_widget, but not for #_layout 15:00:56 it says "This function provides type-safe casting.", what that means, i have no idea 15:01:26 -!- dnm [~dnm@c-68-34-57-169.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:02:28 H4ns````` [~user@pD4B9E9AE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:02:40 -!- H4ns````` is now known as H4ns 15:02:46 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:03:37 in the slime inspector, is there some way to eval lisp code with the currently inspected object being bound to some variable (like * in the repl, similar to the functionality in backtraces)? 15:04:01 H4ns: you can press M-Ret 15:04:09 and the object will be copied to the repl 15:04:26 stassats: ah, thanks! 15:04:39 (the point should be at the right presentation) 15:04:40 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 15:05:12 H4ns: You know you can customize what the inspector shows for your own classes in SBCL, right? 15:05:40 nyef: I didn't 15:05:41 It's not documented, not exported, and not supported, but SLIME uses it internally. 15:05:42 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 15:05:51 good to know, then 15:06:06 stassats, very strange. if you look into qlayoutitem.cpp this function returns this if the item is actually layout and 0 otherwise. In your case the 0th layout item must be actually the QHBoxLayout itself and its layout() method should also return itself. Will look at it later today and perhaps add a testcase 15:06:08 nyef: didn't know that either. 15:06:18 iwillig [~ivan@ool-18b944f4.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 15:06:36 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:06:58 minion: Paste 32760? 15:06:59 ivan4th: yes, i saw all that and can't make sense out of it. code written in cpp directly works as intended 15:07:19 Damn it, minion! 15:07:36 Skala [~San4ik12-@85.234.31.150] has joined #lisp 15:07:55 -!- Skala [~San4ik12-@85.234.31.150] has left #lisp 15:08:30 minion [~minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 15:08:41 minion: Paste 32760? 15:08:41 Paste number 32760: "How to make the SBCL inspector suck less for ALIEN-VALUE objects" by nyef in #lisp. http://paste.lisp.org/display/32760 15:09:04 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:09:20 pavelludiq [~quassel@83.222.190.105] has joined #lisp 15:09:23 nyef: why isn't that in slime yet? 15:09:59 or rather, in SBCL :) 15:10:12 nikodemus: Well, for starters, because it's not slime's job to fix problems with SBCLs inspector? Secondly, because it's quite-obviously buggy. 15:10:30 urandom__ [~user@p548A3D84.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:10:47 Consider what it does for UNION types. 15:11:04 oh... 15:11:57 by the way: do you find the INSPECTED-PARTS interface reasonable? 15:12:11 Yes, absolutely. 15:12:26 documentable and supportable? 15:12:32 I find the /inspector/ to be dangerously mind-twisting, but that interface is good. 15:12:33 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:12:48 *nikodemus* adds to bugs, then 15:12:55 stassats: ok, I now (nearly) understand it. itemAt returns QLayoutItem which isn't recognized as QLayout because QLayoutItem is not QObject (QLayout inherits both QObject and QLayoutItem). Why layout() virtual method is invoked for QLayoutItem class and not QLayout is another question, but anyway we must recognize QLayout being returned from itemAt() 15:13:11 stassats: in other words, here we have some C++ multiple inheritance weirdness 15:13:35 ivan4th: but it does work with #_widget 15:13:40 ivan4th: is the multiple inheritance virtual? 15:13:49 and it doesn't work with spacerItem 15:14:07 Oh, and on the topic of user-controllable source-locations, if we get that can we please use it in the cross-compiler and make it work for structured documents such as literate programs? 15:14:12 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-102-146.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:14:18 milanj [~milanj_@109-93-199-55.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 15:14:38 stassats, #_widget returns QWidget, so everything is recognized properly (CommonQt handles things that are explicitly QObjects with no problems) 15:15:02 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:15:06 no, it does work with spacerItem 15:15:35 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 15:16:13 ivan4th: http://paste.lisp.org/display/116711 15:16:19 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 15:16:38 pkhuong_: no it's not. 15:17:13 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:17:25 Joreji [~thomas@67-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:17:26 -!- Joreji [~thomas@67-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Client Quit] 15:17:33 QSpacerItem doesn't inherit QObject and still works 15:18:01 ivan4th: that could explain a lot of weirdness, then. 15:19:27 mrSpec [~Spec@chello089076137084.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 15:19:27 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@chello089076137084.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 15:19:27 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 15:19:47 smanek [~smanek@70.232.160.18] has joined #lisp 15:21:45 stassats: as far as I understand QSpacerItem *doesn't* work, right? Will check this a bit later... 15:21:57 ivan4th: it does work, see the paste 15:22:14 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:23:10 stassats: ok. QSpacerItem doesn't use non-virtual inheritance (pkhuong_: yes, indeed this seems to be the source of the problems) 15:23:26 rrice [~rrice@adsl-69-221-165-176.dsl.akrnoh.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 15:23:47 p_l|uni [~pl@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 15:24:01 do you mean that it uses virtual inheritance? 15:25:21 hmm, widgets and spacers has their own classes for QLayoutItem: QSpacerItem and QWidgetItem 15:25:31 but QLayout uses QLayoutItem 15:25:47 QSpacerItem inherits only QLayoutItem. QLayout inherits both QLayoutItem and QObject. 15:26:59 QWidgetItem also only inherits QLayoutItem 15:27:18 enupten [~neptune@117.254.152.96] has joined #lisp 15:27:26 this all is confusing 15:28:47 also, calling the right method manually (by id) works 15:29:25 1. itemAt() returns QLayoutItem*. 2. QLayout is both QLayoutItem and QObject, and non-virtual multiple inheritance is used. 3. As consequence, CommonQt cannot recognize QLayout in QLayoutItem* returned by itemAt(); moreover, wrong virtual function implementation is invoked for layout() -- don't know right now, maybe that's exactly because QLayout isn't recognized 15:29:47 Bronsa [~bronsa@host80-186-dynamic.6-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:30:39 the key is that when calling itemAt() for the item that is layout, you must get QLayout-pointing qobject. you don't, you get one for QLayoutItem instead 15:30:50 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 15:31:13 this seems to mean that there must be special case for this ... :( 15:31:17 it looks the same in c++ 15:31:56 addresses of objects returned by itemAt and the subsequent layout are different there 15:32:14 that's because of non-virtual inheritance 15:32:15 -!- LjL [~ljl@unaffiliated/ljl] has left #lisp 15:32:48 I don't quite remember all this C++ multiple inheritance stuff myself, luckily for my sanity 15:32:54 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:33:20 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 15:34:02 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-152-12.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 15:34:10 alright, i'm done with it for today, i hope tomorrow will bring more insights 15:34:49 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu191.queens.ox.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:34:56 if l is QLayout*, it seems like (void*)((QLayoutItem*)l) != (void*)l 15:36:31 so it doesn't look at l as if it was of another type, but creates a copy of a different type? 15:36:59 it creates a pointer to the middle of *l 15:37:39 seangrove [~user@c-71-198-44-87.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:38:22 Krystof [~csr21@82-70-15-30.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:38:46 btw, seems like only dynamic_cast<> may help to learn whether that QLayoutItem* actually points to a QObject* (or QLayout*) 15:40:11 -!- chp [~chp@114.113.66.96] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:40:18 I'm not 100% sure in what I said above because I mostly forgot C++, but seems like it's right 15:41:03 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 15:42:50 ... and if we use dynamic_cast<> in our code, we must require that Qt isn't compiled with -fno-rtti 15:43:12 isn't recent smoke using dynamic_cast in various places anyway? 15:43:39 lichtblau: I don't remember. If so, it's ok 15:44:33 -!- dberg [~user@c-98-234-179-166.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:44:42 -!- replete [~pete@74.39.200.48] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:45:21 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:47:14 /me checks 15:47:14 15:48:21 svn rev 1146237 introduces it 15:48:25 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:49:36 ok then, perhaps we may ignore -fno-rtti installations 15:50:03 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 15:51:15 what do normal Qt developers do? call widget(), layout(), and spacerItem()? 15:51:39 lichtblau: yes 15:51:41 -!- necroforest [~jarred@pool-108-18-226-169.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:51:47 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 15:53:47 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:55:48 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 15:55:50 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 15:56:22 gotcha. this is what smoke generates to call QLayoutItem::layout(): QLayout* xret = this->QLayoutItem::layout(); 15:56:51 (or not...) 15:57:04 Aferlak12 [~Aferlak12@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 15:57:30 perhaps this->QLayoutItem::layout() vs this->layout() is what causing problems 15:58:45 moreover, QLayoutItem in question is casted to (x_QLayoutItem*) before that (while it actually isn't an x_QLayoutItem) 16:00:06 stassats: You suggested I check out c2mop:ensure-class for adding slots to a pre-existing class programmatically, but I'm not sure I see the connection. In fact, I can't really find any documentation on c2mop, I'm just been trying things out in the repl and seeing what happens :) 16:00:30 seangrove: i gave you the link to documentation 16:00:38 minion: mop 16:00:39 mop: Meta Object Protocol(MOP) is a protocol for describing CLOS itself as an extensible CLOS program. http://www.cliki.net/mop 16:01:03 seangrove: http://www.alu.org/mop/contents.html 16:01:28 seangrove: look into mop documentation, c2mop is a compatibility package (replacing common-lisp:) included in closer-mop, a compatibility layer for various implementations 16:01:29 I don't understand the context entirely, but by the time the smoke trampoline function is being called, commonqt has already called the cast function (see perform-cast). If anything is going wrong, it's normally that step. 16:01:40 Hmm, I thought MOP and closer-to-mop were different 16:02:05 It's perform-cast that makes multiple inheritance work in the first place. 16:02:05 closer-to-mop is trying to be close to MOP 16:02:30 seangrove: MOP is the informal standard defined by AMOP, closer-to-mop is library that tries to bring the implementation closer to it 16:03:14 Ah, ok 16:03:25 Sorry for the misunderstanding 16:03:35 I thought it was an additional set of functionality 16:05:05 seangrove: the different implementations have subtly different MOPs. Closer-MOP makes it possible to write portable code using the MOP. 16:06:12 -!- smanek [~smanek@70.232.160.18] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:08:20 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:08:26 -!- superflit [~superflit@c-24-9-162-197.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: superflit] 16:08:40 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 16:10:12 lianj_ [~lianj@subtle/user/lianj] has joined #lisp 16:12:40 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 16:14:20 -!- Hun [~Hun@80.81.19.29] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:15:02 rukowen [~thehien@222.253.104.54] has joined #lisp 16:15:35 lichtblau: it starts with CommonQt not recognizing QLayoutItem that is actually QLayout as QLayout (when it is returned from QLayout::itemAt). What happens after that is interesting and perhaps needs to be researched, but the primary problem is that QLayout object isn't recognized 16:16:42 dnm [~dnm@static-71-166-174-24.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:17:48 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 16:19:19 mega1 [~quassel@2001:470:1f05:548:215:58ff:fe7d:773b] has joined #lisp 16:20:06 -!- chemuduguntar [~ravi@118-93-189-209.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:20:32 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 16:20:34 shemale_magic [~g@pool-173-60-208-79.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:39 PCChris [~PCChris@wireless-165-124-137-111.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has joined #lisp 16:20:47 just laoded cmucl and it says it cant find SSE2 anyone know what that is? 16:20:57 it fell back to some other older mode 16:21:08 so I guess this SSE2 is something good for performance 16:21:24 for floating point operations 16:21:35 that means that your CPU is quite old 16:23:00 Warning: Chip supports SSE2, but could not find SSE2 core. 16:23:00 Falling back to x87 core. 16:23:10 linux 2.6.35 16:23:13 shemale_magic: What system? Where did you get cmucl? 16:23:19 perhaps I need some firmware thingy? 16:23:23 archlinux 16:24:11 All you really need is the sse2 core. Try the binary from common-lisp.net. That includes both the x87 and sse2 cores. 16:24:29 c|mell [~cmell@196.44.252.93] has joined #lisp 16:27:38 CMU Common Lisp 20a (20A Unicode) 16:27:55 Loaded subsystems: 16:27:55 Unicode 1.5 with Unicode version 5.1.0 16:27:55 Python 1.1, target Intel x86 16:27:55 CLOS based on Gerd's PCL 2008-11-12 16:36:41 16:27:58 python? 16:28:19 yes 16:28:41 kclifton [~kclifton@s198-166-45-245.ab.hsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 16:28:44 the name of the compiler 16:28:51 shemale_magic: that is the name of the lisp compiler in cmucl. it is way older than what you commonly call python nowadays. 16:29:12 -!- netytan [~netytan@host81-141-51-227.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Quit: netytan] 16:29:16 shemale_magic: I prefer your regular nick to this one. 16:29:21 shemale_magic: btw, why CMUCL? It's a fine implementation, but not necessarily the easiest to work with 16:29:30 gavino is a glutton for punishment. 16:30:53 Python, the language, isn't that young either 16:31:27 -!- shemale_magic is now known as gavino_himself 16:31:39 ok whats easiest 16:31:40 stassats: not as old as python, the compiler, though. 16:31:42 SBCL? 16:31:56 its seems to be the darling 16:32:21 oh how funny I suspected the python name was for some lisp thing 16:32:31 gavino_himself: there is no such thing as "easy". sbcl is what you get best support here. 16:32:34 H4ns: it was conceived in the late 80s, and the earliest mention of python, the compiler, i was able to find is ealry 80s 16:32:41 gavino_himself: SBCL is the most popular Common Lisp implementation, and that can help when asking questions. 16:33:02 Xach: bold claim! :) 16:33:25 H4ns: My unscientific survey "proves" it! 16:33:37 xan_ [~xan@64.134.97.88] has joined #lisp 16:33:39 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@chello212186106204.11.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:33:46 ivan4th: okay, since I don't have an environment running where I could play around with the test case, I should better stay out of this discussion... 16:34:06 but... is this with the instance-qclass caching change or without? 16:34:48 i don't think it matters, because it shouldn't be in the cache 16:36:02 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:39:55 archlinux's SBCL comes without readline 16:39:58 sonova b 16:40:06 clisp of course does 16:41:33 superflit [~superflit@140.226.49.160] has joined #lisp 16:43:03 gavino_himself: all sbcls come without readline. 16:43:12 gavino_himself: I use linedit when i want readline-like features in sbcl. 16:43:20 when i'm not using slime, that is. 16:44:49 LinGmnZ [~LinGmnZ@183.89.231.152] has joined #lisp 16:45:33 LinGmnZ8 [~LinGmnZ@183.89.231.152] has joined #lisp 16:45:36 jeti [~user@p54B4726A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:46:21 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 16:47:26 -!- PCChris [~PCChris@wireless-165-124-137-111.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:47:42 SpitfireWP_ [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 16:49:24 -!- LinGmnZ [~LinGmnZ@183.89.231.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:49:40 -!- LinGmnZ8 [~LinGmnZ@183.89.231.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:49:42 LinGmnZ [~LinGmnZ@183.89.231.152] has joined #lisp 16:49:51 you really nother with emacs n slime? 16:49:58 seems lik eton fo work vs using vim 16:50:05 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:50:28 what? 16:50:31 LinGmnZ8 [~LinGmnZ@183.89.231.152] has joined #lisp 16:50:46 well using vim vs all that emacs stuff 16:51:28 gavino_himself: Go away. 16:52:27 Guest47557 [~max@178.71.11.154] has joined #lisp 16:53:04 stassats: but your change is in the branch that does the caching, and it makes a qobject instance with class information possibly different from what the smoke method declaration had said, based on qmetaobject information 16:53:12 -!- gavino_himself [~g@pool-173-60-208-79.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 16:53:57 -!- LinGmnZ [~LinGmnZ@183.89.231.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:54:31 LinGmnZ [~LinGmnZ@183.89.231.152] has joined #lisp 16:54:43 -!- LinGmnZ8 [~LinGmnZ@183.89.231.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:55:23 LinGmnZ8 [~LinGmnZ@183.89.231.152] has joined #lisp 16:57:03 stassats: I'm mainly asking because I'm still suspicious of that change in general. ;-) 16:57:35 can we have two sbcl repl pointing to same vm ? 16:57:39 cullan [~user@97-87-103-19.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 16:58:03 kushal: Sure, run swank in another thread and connect to it 16:58:23 tcr, can you tell me the steps or point to some doc about it ? 16:58:41 -!- LinGmnZ [~LinGmnZ@183.89.231.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:58:54 If you're lucky it's described in the slime manual 16:59:11 LinGmnZ [~LinGmnZ@183.89.231.152] has joined #lisp 16:59:28 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:59:31 ok 16:59:33 let me check 16:59:40 -!- LinGmnZ8 [~LinGmnZ@183.89.231.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:00:09 PCChris [~PCChris@wireless-165-124-137-111.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has joined #lisp 17:00:34 LinGmnZ8 [~LinGmnZ@183.89.231.152] has joined #lisp 17:02:38 stassats: in general, even if that isn't the problem at hand, you would need to use a cast function before sticking a different class into the slot there 17:02:55 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-122-27.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:18 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@187.87.224.70] has joined #lisp 17:04:05 -!- LinGmnZ [~LinGmnZ@183.89.231.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:04:25 LinGmnZ [~LinGmnZ@183.89.231.152] has joined #lisp 17:04:43 -!- LinGmnZ8 [~LinGmnZ@183.89.231.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:05:17 LinGmnZ8 [~LinGmnZ@183.89.231.152] has joined #lisp 17:05:17 Good evening everyone! 17:06:30 Yay! The x86 to sparc cross-compile produced a working (I think) core. 17:06:45 Congratulations! 17:07:04 sweet 17:07:25 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:08:01 It's kind of messy and I don't really understand what's going on with the linkage table names, but it worked. 17:08:11 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 17:08:29 Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 17:08:50 -!- LinGmnZ [~LinGmnZ@183.89.231.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:09:00 tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-87-25-189.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:13 I wonder if I can do an x86-to-ppc build and try to resurrect cmucl on my ancient imac g3 running 10.2.x. 17:09:14 tfb [~tfb@92.40.6.253.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:09:22 LinGmnZ [~LinGmnZ@183.89.231.152] has joined #lisp 17:09:29 But, then, what's the point? 17:10:03 -!- Guest47557 [~max@178.71.11.154] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:10:14 -!- LinGmnZ8 [~LinGmnZ@183.89.231.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:10:38 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756cc6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:38 kushal: how long are your strings to be searched? 17:10:39 lichtblau: it may be not great, but i get my code working that way 17:11:12 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 17:11:14 -!- tsuru [~charlie@adsl-87-46-139.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:11:15 that's my criteria, get it to work, then care about consequences 17:12:27 -!- enupten [~neptune@117.254.152.96] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:12:29 Xach, means ? 17:12:40 Nope. Cross-compiled version can't rebuild itself. Bummer. 17:12:50 kushal: What part do you find confusing? 17:13:18 kushal: you have millions of strings and you want to search them for some substring. how long are the millions of strings? 17:13:53 -!- LinGmnZ [~LinGmnZ@183.89.231.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:13:55 Xach, at most 500 character 17:13:55 -!- guaqua [gua@xob.kapsi.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:14:19 netytan [~netytan@host81-141-55-198.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 17:15:15 zomgbie [~jesus@212095007094.public.telering.at] has joined #lisp 17:15:28 kushal: what is the average size? 17:15:56 Xach, around 10 (hopefully) 17:16:57 beach: Chào thy  17:17:17 rukowen: Chào em! 17:17:37 beach: may I ask you 1 question? 17:17:54 rukowen: Sure. Even better (if it is technical) ask everyone! 17:17:59 cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.105.166] has joined #lisp 17:18:08 beach: the difference between MEAN and AVERAGE 17:18:24 None, as far as I know. 17:18:30 beach: This is my acknowledge 17:18:56 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-elrmocmvqzyurywu] has joined #lisp 17:18:56 jweiss_ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:19:09 beach: MEAN is the value in the middle position of a sorted array 17:19:23 rukowen: No, that would be MEDIAN. 17:19:35 Xach, fast searching is the issue 17:20:42 beach: Ah, so MEAN and AVERAGE are the same? 17:20:49 rukowen: Yes. 17:21:26 kushal: I just played around with toy data (I don't know what your real data looks like) and naive searching with cl-ppcre took about 800ms for 2M strings of average length 30. that's too slow for you, eh? 17:21:53 beach: tri i, that's my mistake. Cám n thy . 17:21:57 Xach, not at all, can you show me the code 17:21:59 please 17:22:22 rukowen: không có gì, em. 17:22:43 -!- benny [~benny@i577A88F1.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:22:57 beach: sometimes your erudition is frightning 17:23:01 beach, you know the language very well it seems :) 17:23:07 kushal: The code is just a dotimes that calls cl-ppcre:scan on a matcher previously created with *use-bmh-matchers* set to t. 17:23:24 I never used cl-ppcre 17:23:46 Can I put any code into the :initform of a slot definition? 17:23:47 dlowe: I hope you are not referring to knowing the difference between median and mean :) 17:23:55 beach: hah. no. 17:24:00 Seems like it, yes 17:24:23 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@212095007094.public.telering.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:24:42 kushal: it can be pretty fast. 17:25:21 Xach, can you please show me that ? :) 17:27:34 Hmm, I can't access the value of another slot while defining a slot... 17:28:08 seangrove: You typically put all that in an :after method on initialize-instance. 17:28:28 -!- prip [~foo@host167-83-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:28:41 kushal: http://paste.lisp.org/display/116717 17:28:46 Xach, checking 17:28:48 Ah, ok, I'll look that up. I read a bit about the :before/:after/:around bits, didn't think it applied 17:30:06 It's funny, I spent 12 working hours today with things related to my job, and it's by coming here that I feel I am doing something productive for the first time today. 17:30:21 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:30:58 beach: Time to start #Lisp University. 17:30:59 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:32:52 I am ready to join :) 17:33:44 kushal: Hope that bit of code is useful. I don't know if it is applicable to your actual problem. 17:34:37 Xach, when I just tried to do search sequentially , it took 1.5 seconds , so I guess cl-ppcre will make it faster 17:34:58 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 17:38:03 Xach: I'll think about it. 17:38:47 Nibble [~Nibble@90-227-4-223-no113.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 17:41:20 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-218-110.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:41:28 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-218-110.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:41:29 has anyone experienced compile-times going through the roof since 1.044.1? 17:41:34 prip [~foo@host53-124-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:41:39 (sbcl, obviously) 17:43:34 -!- cullan [~user@97-87-103-19.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:44:23 tcleval [~funnyguy@187.58.90.22] has joined #lisp 17:44:31 hi 17:44:40 for threading in sbcl any better tutorial than http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Threading-basics.html#Threading-basics ? 17:44:55 nikodemus: besides Martin Cracauer? :) 17:45:03 yes :) 17:45:08 is cl-javascript safe for scripting? I mean, does it come with some sort of sandbox, so the scripts cant do for example IO? 17:45:27 i'm hoping someone might have a more reducible test-case 17:45:47 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.54.141] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:45:50 tcleval: no idea 17:47:02 but if it is intended for users to script the applications they are using on their own computers, i doubt it 17:47:57 Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050067096.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:48:02 Arelius [d0507552@gateway/web/freenode/ip.208.80.117.82] has joined #lisp 17:48:41 nikodemus: even if the user is using it on his own computer, it may have the case when users want to share scripts. Like what people do on greasymonkey 17:48:45 devinus_ [~devinus@65.107.181.222.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #lisp 17:48:54 bsod1 [~osa1@88.244.225.231] has joined #lisp 17:49:32 sure 17:50:09 still, if they did sandboxing, i think they would have mentioned it 17:50:36 (more prominently on the page, that is -- i didn't read the docs) 17:50:42 cullan [~user@97-87-103-19.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:50:47 nikodemus: yes, you are right. That is so important that they would never forget to mention it 17:51:51 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756cc6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:53:02 guaqua [gua@xob.kapsi.fi] has joined #lisp 17:55:24 amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 17:56:01 -!- PCChris [~PCChris@wireless-165-124-137-111.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:57:43 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:58:36 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 17:58:50 -!- Krystof [~csr21@82-70-15-30.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:59:28 please anyone tell me, is there any way to compute (x-y) square? instead of (* (x-y) (x-y)) 17:59:58 <`3b`> did you mean (- x y)? 18:00:10 rukowen: (let ((z (- x y))) (* z z)) 18:00:16 (expt (- x y) 2) 18:00:35 is there anyway of doing list[0:7](python) kind of thing lisp ? 18:01:04 ie creating sublists ? 18:01:24 Like (subseq list 0 7)? 18:01:40 yes, thank all. I got it ^^ 18:01:41 (Or is that (subseq list 0 8))? 18:01:49 oh, how can I forget that :( 18:01:53 rtoym, thanks 18:02:18 actually I never used it on lists but only on strings 18:02:31 what does list[0:7] do in python? if you modify the list you get out of that, is the original mutated as well? 18:02:43 `3b`: actually (x-y)*(x-y) :) 18:03:29 nikodemus, original will stay same 18:03:39 rtoym, list is not sequence :) 18:03:58 What? It is a sequence. 18:04:09 (subtypep 'list 'sequence) => t, t 18:04:16 oh, I think I am sleepy 18:04:21 sorry 18:04:32 Anyone familiar with clx and get-best-authorization? 18:05:24 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:05:40 rtoym: More the former than the latter. What's up? 18:07:00 gump_ [~gauthamg@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 18:07:14 nyef: get-best-auth with a protocol of :local converts the host to the hostname of the machine. But my xauth file only has an entry for localhost/unix:0. Thus, get-best-auth never finds the write auth data. 18:07:26 -!- fgump [~gauthamg@188.74.82.177] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 18:08:01 -!- gump_ [~gauthamg@188.74.82.177] has quit [Client Quit] 18:08:13 fgump [~gauthamg@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 18:08:43 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:09:22 (The xauth file is created by the system. I don't do anything to create it.) 18:09:27 -!- rukowen [~thehien@222.253.104.54] has left #lisp 18:11:15 The file in question is ~/.Xauthority ? 18:12:26 jdz [~jdz@host9-106-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:13:27 Can you trace xlib::read-xauth-entry and paste the return values for the entry in question? 18:13:33 m314 [~user@0x573f21e5.arcnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 18:13:43 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:15:24 nyef: Sure. But I'll have to run over the the other machine. If I do it remotely, it works because ssh added the correct values. 18:15:50 You can do it remotely anyway: The entry will still be read. 18:16:04 Unless the entry isn't there without a local connection? 18:18:21 rtoym: it is a sequence, but note that most CL functions taking sequences actually take a subset of sequence including only the proper lists (to the exclusion of circular or dotted lists). 18:18:34 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 18:18:50 improper lists aren't sequences, actually 18:18:53 IIRC 18:19:39 pjb: Dotted lists (including circular lists) are not properly sequences. 18:19:44 clhs: 17.1.1 18:19:45 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/17_aa.htm 18:19:50 nyef: Yeah, I did xauth list remotely, and the localhost/unix:0 entry is not there. 18:20:31 nyef: (typep '(1 . 2) 'sequence) --> T is the conforming response. 18:20:50 nyef: you could define a proper sequence, if you want. 18:21:44 -!- cullan [~user@97-87-103-19.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:21:45 Hmm. Is lisppaste not working? I submitted the paste, but didn't get a paste number or link. 18:21:50 -!- Intensity [xGaRhIBWkw@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:22:15 rtoym: Announcements are disabled for #lisp, due to paste-spamming. 18:22:44 nyef: Not that. The web interface. After submitting, I should get a page with a link and paste number. I didn't. 18:22:51 Oh, ouch. 18:22:57 Just a blank page? 18:23:05 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 18:23:07 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 18:23:14 Yeah. Just blank. 18:23:26 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-229-127.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:23:31 -!- Nibble [~Nibble@90-227-4-223-no113.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:23:34 Means the bot is disconnected. :-/ 18:23:42 The paste exists, though, and should be in the paste list. 18:23:48 Nibble [~Nibble@90-227-4-223-no113.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 18:23:49 But the paste is there: http://paste.lisp.org/display/116719 18:24:05 If you're doing logic programming (and similar) in Lisp, so that you have some symbols that represent constants and some that represent variables, Is there a recommended/idiomatic way of distinguishing the two? 18:24:32 Some classic texts distinguish by prepending ? For variables, but this means you can't generate fresh variables with gensym 18:24:50 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:25:09 only CLISP, Lispworks and GCL still are not delivering ASDF 2. 18:25:25 Intensity [lmjanQeRDI@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 18:25:27 And that entry doesn't get returned from (xlib::get-best-authorization nil 0 :local) ? 18:25:52 nyef: Also, get-best-auth is called with "", 0, :local. When the protocol is :local, it looks up the host name and sets host-address to that. The host-address is not localhost. 18:26:05 Ahh. 18:27:18 My hack is to allow a match if the protocol is :local and the xauth address is "localhost". Not really sure if that's valid, but it works for me. 18:27:50 That's probably at least not horrible. 18:28:00 Heh. Ok. 18:28:17 Please send the patch to clx-devel, so that it doesn't get forgotten. 18:28:20 isn't :local for a connection on the unix socket? 18:28:33 The other hack is to add an appropriate entry to xauth. 18:29:32 rwallace: note that GENSYM takes an argument. (gensym "?X-") => #:?X-169177 18:29:32 What sort of host is this? 18:29:40 syntard__ [~chatzilla@204.51.92.251] has joined #lisp 18:29:57 gigamonkey, oh, perfect, thanks! 18:30:08 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 18:30:29 Fare: Apparently, yes. But there's some odd verification going on there. 18:30:30 rwallace: you may prefer (make-symbol "?X") => #:?X 18:30:34 nyef: Linux x86 running openSuSE 11.2. 18:30:57 depending whether you want the names to be distinct or not. (The symbols, of course, are distinct in either case.) 18:31:50 -!- syntard [~chatzilla@fl-74-4-76-189.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:31:52 -!- syntard__ is now known as syntard 18:32:04 gigamonkey, right, debugging is easier when the names are distinct... though making them nondistinct might later save a few microseconds for production runs, good point. 18:32:35 nyef: That's the list on common-lisp.net, right? 18:32:48 rwallace: and sometimes the ugliness of the distinct names gets overwhelming. 18:32:49 rtoym: That's the list, yes. 18:33:55 -!- tsuru` is now known as tsuru 18:34:15 nyef: Thanks. I hope the gmane gateway will let me post.... 18:37:07 -!- tfb [~tfb@92.40.6.253.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:40:17 -!- hlavaty [~user@77-22-100-178-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:40:39 zac314159 [~user@c-68-84-149-234.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:40:53 Ok. Patch sent. 18:41:07 Protected [~Join@myshelter.net] has joined #lisp 18:41:43 Thanks. Hopefully it'll show up in my inbox soon. 18:43:07 -!- prip [~foo@host53-124-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:43:26 kmwallio [~kmwallio@host113-70.brownlie.fit.edu] has joined #lisp 18:43:50 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-elrmocmvqzyurywu] has left #lisp 18:43:58 how to pass arguments to the function passed to sb-thread:make-thread ? 18:44:20 -!- Intensity [lmjanQeRDI@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:44:42 kushal: You don't. If you want a function with arguments, use (lambda () (function 42)) 18:44:52 oh 18:45:55 well, not literally FUNCTION, of course. 18:47:04 -!- tcleval [~funnyguy@187.58.90.22] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:48:17 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:48:54 tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 18:52:13 PCChris [~PCChris@wireless-165-124-137-190.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has joined #lisp 18:52:54 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:53:38 g'day #lisp! 18:53:59 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 18:53:59 g'day Bruce! 18:56:12 prip [~foo@host140-120-dynamic.52-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:57:12 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 18:58:37 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:58:47 Edward [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-15-68.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:01:36 benny` [~benny@i577A1FA8.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:02:05 -!- benny` is now known as bennyu 19:02:08 -!- bennyu is now known as benny 19:07:10 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:07:39 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 19:08:29 -!- vivitron [ad4c080a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.173.76.8.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:09:00 -!- jweiss_ [~jweiss@cpe-069-134-009-048.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:09:19 -!- Bucciarati [~buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:09:41 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@187.87.224.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:10:40 nyef: The clx patch has made it to the clx-devel list, so posting via gmane works. 19:10:55 I saw. Thanks again. 19:11:09 No prob. 19:11:09 If CLX sees a new release, please let me know. 19:14:07 -!- syntard [~chatzilla@204.51.92.251] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.12/20101026210630]] 19:14:38 syntard [~chatzilla@204.51.92.251] has joined #lisp 19:17:43 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host80-186-dynamic.6-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:18:56 Xach: Oh, I will... And possibly before thanksgiving. 19:19:17 (Since that way I can merge the glx-fixes stuff into mainline.) 19:19:20 yay 19:19:33 -!- ace4016 [ace4016@adsl-33-40-124.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:19:40 ace4016 [~ace4016@adsl-33-40-124.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:19:56 Xach: Are you actually handling the merging of new releases for all the systems yourself? 19:20:04 symbole: Yes. 19:20:27 Hmm. quicklisp is an easy way for me to tell if clx has been updated. Then I can update cmucl's copy pretty easily. 19:20:44 rtoym: it is the circle of life! 19:20:50 Indeed! 19:20:50 Xach: Must take a lot of work. Could the developers do that themselves? 19:21:03 symbole: It's highly automated, so not a lot of work at the moment. 19:22:24 jweiss_ [~jweiss@47.sub-174-252-184.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 19:23:56 -!- xan_ [~xan@64.134.97.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:25:44 tcr1 [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 19:27:17 Besides, it's not like there's a lot of lisp libraries to keep track of. :-P 19:27:55 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:27:58 more than i thought, for sure 19:29:28 Probably far more than I'm aware of or care about. 19:29:59 ... anything in there for USB device access? 19:30:36 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-235-239.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:31:30 No. 19:32:12 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-235-239.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:38:17 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.54.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:38:26 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-93-199-55.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:38:44 stassats: okay. So far I mostly know what I don't know about this. 19:39:48 It's not a new bug, so I'm taking that suspicion back. 19:39:59 It's also not that the pointer is wrong -- the inheritance is such that a pointer to a QHBoxLayout is the same as a pointer to a QLayout. 19:40:03 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.145.53] has joined #lisp 19:40:28 The pointer to a QLayoutItem is 16 bytes more, and that's what we get from itemAt. 19:40:52 So those numbers match up between what CommonQt sees and what equivalent C++ code sees. 19:41:58 QtRuby gets it right -- but it never attempts to return a QLayoutItem in the first place, they have something in place that turns the return from itemAt directly into the Qt::HBoxLayout instance. 19:42:29 tcleval [~funnyguy@187.58.90.22] has joined #lisp 19:42:59 milanj [~milanj_@109-92-97-30.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 19:43:12 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 19:46:29 edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 19:46:44 -!- jweiss_ [~jweiss@47.sub-174-252-184.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:47:22 -!- lanthan_afh [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 19:50:21 muhdik [~IceChat7@parkmobile-usa.oneringnetworks.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:47 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:52:41 -!- jdz [~jdz@host9-106-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:52:46 skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #lisp 19:53:48 jweiss_ [~jweiss@114.sub-174-252-149.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 19:57:49 is there a function that'd return the maximum of a list (like max), but let me choose a key to compare by? (like, say (car (sort l f :key #'car)), but O(n)?) 19:58:16 (reduce #'max list :key #'car) 19:58:23 thanks 19:59:25 hmm, not quite: that returns a number, and I need the whole element of the list 19:59:38 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.105.166] has left #lisp 19:59:45 that is left as an exercise for the reader 19:59:48 Tordek: Look for EXTREMUM in cl-utilities 20:00:08 tcr1: ah, that's what it was called, thanks 20:01:31 (reduce (lambda (x y) (if (> (car x) (car y)) x y)) list) 20:02:51 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp0225.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 20:05:30 -!- jweiss_ [~jweiss@114.sub-174-252-149.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:06:01 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 20:06:26 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Changing host] 20:06:27 tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #lisp 20:06:29 netytan_ [~netytan@host81-141-55-160.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 20:07:58 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:08:19 -!- netytan [~netytan@host81-141-55-198.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:08:19 -!- netytan_ is now known as netytan 20:11:20 jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-116.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:13:01 Edward_ [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-15-68.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:16:08 -!- Edward [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-15-68.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:18:19 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-116.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:19:55 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-174.mirrorimage.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:20:14 hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-174.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:32 max__ [~max@178.71.11.154] has joined #lisp 20:24:01 -!- Protected [~Join@myshelter.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:25:52 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:26:45 jweiss_ [~jweiss@152.16.144.213] has joined #lisp 20:27:14 Does anyone know about any 2d game engine? 20:27:35 replete [~pete@74.39.195.55] has joined #lisp 20:27:58 drdo: Did you ask on #lispgames or check their wiki first? 20:28:27 nyef: No, i didn't know of the existence of such thing, thank you 20:31:08 -!- replete [~pete@74.39.195.55] has quit [Client Quit] 20:31:22 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:33:07 blackthorn-engine seems to be somewhat for that. 20:34:00 Can't find documentation for any of the ones listed of the lispgames wiki :S 20:34:05 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:37:45 Yeah, documentation isn't always a priority, you know? 20:37:49 sykopomp: Got any docs for SquirL? 20:39:16 ... I /did/ commit that SBCL fix to make SquirL compile, didn't I? 20:39:17 nyef: Yes, but without at least a quick tutorial overviewing how it works, might as well implement my own as it's probably less work than trying to figure it out 20:40:07 Amazingly enough, a simple 2d game engine isn't hard to write. 20:40:30 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:42:06 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:42:48 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 20:43:34 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.54.141] has joined #lisp 20:44:42 xan_ [~xan@222-242-13-72.static.cosmoweb.net] has joined #lisp 20:46:03 -!- netytan [~netytan@host81-141-55-160.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:46:40 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-102-146.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:46:56 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-235-239.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:48:06 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-168.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:52:21 faux` [~user@c-219c70d5.035-128-67626713.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:53:41 -!- jweiss_ [~jweiss@152.16.144.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:56:26 -!- skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:56:56 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:57:14 afekz [~afekz@196-210-236-97.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:57:45 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 20:58:09 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 20:58:15 skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #lisp 20:58:32 minion: herep? 20:58:34 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``herep''. 20:58:52 -!- skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:59:24 mark` [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #lisp 20:59:45 -!- mark` is now known as skalawag 20:59:49 blippy [1000@217.155.40.178] has joined #lisp 20:59:52 plediii [~plediii@nat-168-7-234-37.rice.edu] has joined #lisp 21:00:08 -!- skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:00:41 -!- max__ [~max@178.71.11.154] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:00:53 skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #lisp 21:01:12 -!- skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has left #lisp 21:01:54 p_l|uni [~pl@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:02:02 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:03:33 minion: herep 21:03:33 herep: T 21:03:36 better :) 21:03:52 *Xach* wonders if fusss dropped off the face of the earth 21:05:57 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-235-239.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:06:32 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:06:44 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 21:07:45 Protected [~Join@myshelter.net] has joined #lisp 21:07:55 Hello 21:08:05 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 21:08:07 minion: therep? 21:08:08 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``therep''. 21:08:14 hello Protected 21:08:34 Noob question - Is there a list-like data structure in lisp where I can efficiently append items on either end? 21:09:05 minion: Please tell Protected about flexichain! 21:09:05 Protected: direct your attention towards flexichain: A Library needed by Climacs and Gsharp. http://www.cliki.net/flexichain 21:09:17 :P 21:09:24 Thanks 21:09:27 I'll check it out 21:09:30 No problem! 21:09:44 Protected: It was designed for your use case (and more). 21:10:11 Protected: or you can use a circular list :D 21:10:42 Actually, while we're talking about lists, here's another question ^^ 21:11:02 Would it be more efficient to use insertion sort to build a sorted list from a set or build the list in linear time and then quicksort it? 21:11:05 Using NORMAL lists this time 21:11:18 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@187.87.224.70] has joined #lisp 21:11:33 Protected: The latter. 21:11:45 Alright. Thanks again. 21:12:04 Doesn't that depend on the size of the list? 21:12:44 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:12:58 rtoym: Don't complicate things! The question obviously ignored subtle things like that, so the answer should as well. 21:13:18 Heh. Ok. 21:13:24 I don't know ^^ The list is user input 21:13:38 It can get very big 21:13:51 Protected: rtoym is trying to tell you that your question is to simplistic, and so you can't expect any precision in the answer. 21:14:27 From my experience asking questions online that aren't very short usually results in no answer at all 21:14:59 Protected: I am in a bad mood today, so I give you the simplistic (and probably wrong for your case) answer. 21:15:16 Protected: This isn't business school. 8-) 21:15:19 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-094-167.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 21:15:38 Protected: Thus indicating my problem with your overly-simplistic question. 21:16:01 beach: That's a very subtle way of being evil 21:16:08 Sorry! 21:16:09 But it's probably a good answer anyway 21:16:13 So don't worry about it 21:17:11 eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 21:17:35 -!- afekz [~afekz@196-210-236-97.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Quit: afekz] 21:19:20 Protected: If your input is "random", then using insertion sort is O(n) for each insertion, where n is the size of the list so far. For N insertions, this gives O(n²) complexity. 21:19:43 Protected: Whereas sorting once at the end, gives you O(n log n) complexity. 21:20:08 Protected: Now, if you have to display the result after each insertion, the situation becomes quite different. 21:20:42 Protected: Or, if you suspect that the input is not given in a random order, then again, that totally changes your choice. 21:22:01 -!- SpitfireWP_ is now known as SpitfireWP 21:22:02 [that's a slightly more appropriate answer] 21:22:19 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:22:50 But given my shitty day, I don't give a damn. 21:23:26 How big can user input of a list be? What user is going to enter a list for more than a couple dozen entries? 21:23:29 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-229-127.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:23:33 beach: What was the interesting thing that happened? 21:23:59 Protected, if all you want is a deque, there's one in fare-utils. 21:24:08 probably cheaper than a full-fledged flexi-chain 21:25:11 symbole: You don't want to know. Admin work, then people questioning the interest of CS, and finally 4 hours of meetings straight, etc. 21:25:41 Fare: Though Flexichain is pretty well optimized. 21:25:50 beach: You work at a university? 21:26:06 symbole: I do, yes. University of Bordeaux. 21:26:11 -!- eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: eugu] 21:26:33 uh, why does (remove 1 '(8 7 0 2 4 1) :test #'<) return (0 1) 21:26:55 i would expect it to return just 0 21:27:12 4 hours of meeting would crush the manliest of men. 21:27:23 zvrba: It removes anything that is > 1 21:27:31 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@187.87.224.70] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:27:51 beach: what is the order of arguments to :test ? 21:27:53 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@187.87.224.70] has joined #lisp 21:28:04 zvrba: The test is applies with the item first and the list element next. 21:28:35 symbole: And I had no wifi!!! 21:28:49 i hate hyperspec, instead of claryfying this in text, it gives a bunch of examples. 21:28:53 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.81.222] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:28:59 test---a designator for a function of one argument that returns a generalized boolean. 21:29:19 but any explanation of how it is called? no? here you go, 20 rows of examples. 21:29:20 lemoinem [~swoog@224-91-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:24 21:29:26 zvrba: You have to read the section about "satisfying the test". 21:29:57 zvrba: The HyperSpec was meant for implementers, not for users. 21:30:13 zvrba: Problem: we don't have a good document for users. 21:30:35 :/ 21:31:03 beach: what is it, internally? A tree balanced by length of text under tree? 21:31:27 maybe a "finger tree" of such trees 21:31:33 Fare: Flexichain? A circular gap buffer. 21:32:03 beach: using weak pointers if I remember correctly ;) 21:32:14 ejohnson: Is that you? 21:32:19 yup :) 21:32:26 still around I see ;) 21:32:30 ejohnson: Welcome back! 21:32:41 I've been away from irc for too long 21:32:49 Way too long! 21:32:59 heh, I check in every year or so ;) 21:33:07 how's the sauna? 21:33:24 delYsid` [~user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 21:33:33 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 21:33:57 ejohnson: I use it three days a week at this time of year. But I am about to take off for Ho Chi Minh City, where going outdoors is quite enough! :) 21:34:26 hah! Nice. How long will you be in H-C-M City? 21:34:33 6 months 21:34:40 -!- rwallace [~rwallace@89.100.128.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:35:13 Oh another extended stay, like New Zealand a few years back if I remember. Will this be a sabbatical 21:35:16 ? 21:35:32 No sabbatical this time, but it might as well be. :) 21:35:38 ejohnson: What about you? What are you up to? 21:35:55 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@adsl-99-142-86-205.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:36:06 pure functional data structures FTW 21:36:33 beach: working mostly, at Franz. Got Gabor one wall over, antifuchs just across the room, not to mention the other lisp hackers hanging around. I've been here 2 years or so and really like it. 21:37:03 -!- faux` [~user@c-219c70d5.035-128-67626713.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:37:24 beach: wow, HCM city! how long are you going to stay? 21:37:31 Not quite a university environment, but it still has a lot of flavor 21:37:34 smanek [~smanek@c-98-206-218-88.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:37:35 -!- delYsid [~user@debian/developer/mlang] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:37:36 hey get back to work ;) 21:37:44 haha 21:37:49 :) 21:38:15 I'm want to use c2mop:class-slots. can I get class from definition instead of (class-of instance) ? 21:38:32 ejohnson: I am impressed! It wasn't clear at the time that Lisp would be part of your future! Congratulations! 21:38:48 antifuchs: 6 months. 21:39:11 beach: Right. I'm still trying to find time to do more music. My horn has been collecting dust lately :) 21:39:22 nice! 21:39:25 ejohnson: Not good! 21:39:48 rwallace [~rwallace@89.100.128.108] has joined #lisp 21:40:10 beach: yes, but I have a lot if things requireing my attention, girlfriend is a big one. 21:40:25 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-92-97-30.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:40:25 when you fall out of something it often takes quite a bit to get back into a groove. 21:40:29 -!- sixpoint8 [~jaykub@ip68-12-204-131.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] 21:40:52 sixpoint8 [~jaykub@ip68-12-204-131.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:44 I know! 21:42:04 Gabor? is mega at franz too now, or is that some other Gabor? 21:42:05 ejohnson: So you met antifuchs at Franz? 21:42:10 beach: Are there any lisp projects you've been hacking on? 21:42:13 beach: yeah! 21:42:19 he just moved here 2 months ago. 21:42:31 yeah, I know. Great! 21:42:35 ejohnson: The most recent one is SICL. 21:42:36 been a blast ever sense and I'm not just saying that because he's listening in ;) 21:42:44 eugu [~eugene@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 21:42:52 minion: sicl? 21:42:54 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``sicl''. 21:43:00 hmm 21:43:00 ejohnson: Oh, I know what antifuchs is capable of :) 21:43:05 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 21:43:25 http://common-lisp.net/project/sicl or something like that. 21:43:25 beach: I'm not sure that I know what he's capable of. Seems like mostly anything at this point ;) 21:44:19 ejohnson: I have had the pleasure of meeting antifuchs both in Lisp-related situations (mostly here in Bordeaux) and social events, such as his wedding!!! 21:44:44 -!- mbohun [~user@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:45:05 oh nice! I never knew he and you had more than a passing connection. Very cool! 21:45:09 Draggor [~Draggor@adsl-99-142-86-205.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:45:24 ejohnson: You would enjoy the collection of musical instruments of his father!!! 21:45:32 beach: cloning sicl now. 21:45:47 oh really ancient or modern or both? 21:46:38 ejohnson: Both, really! Totally unorganized. But the story of each one told by antifuchs's father is the real good part of it. 21:47:39 beach: :) That sounds like a great experience. Nothing like a little history to bring things to life. 21:47:41 antifuchs: I probably never thanked you formally for that event, but it will remain as one of the highlights of my life, meeting your friends and your parents! 21:47:57 varjag_ [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 21:48:32 ejohnson: He made a formal promise that the collection would be totally organized next time I show up. 21:48:57 -!- varjag_ [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:49:03 beach: I am very glad you enjoyed it. I can definitely say the same about the whole event, as was having you there (-: 21:49:31 davazp [~user@83.46.0.16] has joined #lisp 21:49:45 hah, I didn't know he made that promise, by the way 21:49:54 I'll nag him about that the next time I visit (-: 21:49:58 Hah! 21:50:04 Do! 21:50:12 beach: let me know, I've been meaning to make a trip to Austria one day. Maybe I can impose upon Papa Fuchs. 21:50:39 ejohnson: Oh, he will enjoy every minute of it! 21:50:57 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:51:05 ejohnson: I tried to grep for you name in my Lisp directory, but it is taking too long. You were involved in Climacs, Flexichain, McCLIM, what else? 21:51:39 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:52:18 Some projects with one of your students. An audio library that never took off beyond simple control of linux's OSS. I also tinkered with Movitz, UCW, and a few other libraries. I've never been much on being a project lead. 21:52:36 -!- Nibble [~Nibble@90-227-4-223-no113.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: What does this button do?] 21:52:38 beach: let me find your student's name really quick 21:53:40 Rouanet? 21:53:54 actually Martin Raspaud 21:54:00 replete [~pete@cpe-74-64-94-88.hvc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:54:06 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@224-91-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:54:24 -!- replete [~pete@cpe-74-64-94-88.hvc.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 21:54:30 ah, OK. He is in Sweden now (Norrköping) with his girlfriend (wife?) and they seem to be doing very well. 21:54:55 His father is my colleague. 21:55:09 Nice! I saw a project of his called cloud a few years back and should see what state it's in. 21:55:23 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A3D84.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:55:49 lemoinem [~swoog@254-76-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 21:56:30 ejohnson: I can't keep up! But it would be great to revive the pitiful implementation of the FFT algorithm that I did back then, and which has since propagated without being improved. 21:56:31 beach: so, sicl, it seems rather high level. I just fetched it and after work I'll give it a quick read. I like the aim to create a platform of useable pieces for developers, but not sure that I totally understand the aim yet. 21:56:46 beach: haha I do remember that :) 21:57:25 beach: I think I saw that in 3 or so other projects. 21:57:32 yeah. 21:57:34 with credit of course 21:58:01 beach: wasn't it good? I had the impression you spent a good time making it a good fft? 21:58:53 pjb: It wasn't bad, but recall that I have a paper beating the (now second-) best shuffling algorithm by a factor 5. 21:58:56 pjb: I thought it was decent. My problems were always in other areas, so the need to touch it never came up. 21:59:11 pjb: And this one could be improved *a lot*. 21:59:12 beach: wow 21:59:42 beach: ok, but it's good, so it's not surprising of projects find it useful. 22:00:15 pjb: Also, by using sqrt(n) radix, we can do *much* better than current algorithms including possibly FFTW. 22:00:47 beach: by the way, I was watching various MIT courses. Does anybody record such courses in French? 22:00:48 pjb: To me, it's a mediocre result. 22:01:11 ;-) 22:01:27 pjb: Freely available? Don't know. I doubt it. Perhaps in Quebec. 22:01:48 Why not? Whouldn't it be nice if you recorded your Lisp courses? 22:02:04 And of course, made them available on the web. 22:02:15 pjb: It would be *very* nice. I am waiting for someone to pay me for it. 22:02:31 netytan [~netytan@host81-141-55-185.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 22:02:37 Well, I'm was thinking of Bordeaux University obviously... 22:03:25 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 22:03:29 pjb: about a decade ago or so, I suggested making a series of on-line courses on programming languages, because we don't have courses directly on a particular programming language. 22:03:56 pjb: You are using a very strange version of "you". :) 22:04:33 Well, you know, you singular, inmersed in a bigger you plural. 22:04:45 I know, I know... :) 22:04:50 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@187.87.224.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:05:20 pjb: How about I give you the email address of my VP, and I'll let you convince him? 22:05:29 :-) 22:05:46 Wouldn't he want to emulate the MIT? 22:06:14 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:06:16 I suspect his priorities are elsewhere right now. 22:06:39 More and more, what's not on the web just won't exist... 22:06:47 pjb: if you are going to get a petition going, I'd sign it. 22:08:08 Eg. there are people who are publishing "tutorials" or other courseware on their own, and while not acreditating, it is as much as valuable as any university course. If they don't do it themselves, somebody else will do it for them. 22:09:03 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:09:08 In the specific case, it's also a mater of francophonie. Right now, I'd advise any youngling to learn English even more than I was advised, to have access to the learning resources on the Internet. 22:09:25 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 22:09:27 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:10:17 pjb: The arguments you are trying now have been tried for the two decades I have been in Bordeaux. Unless someone suggests *huge* advantages to the people who accept doing it, it won't happen. 22:10:46 I understand. :-( 22:10:56 bobbysmith0071 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 22:11:11 pjb: But now that the French universities are "autonomous", I suspect it will only take another couple of decades before the presidency learns about economics and figures it out. 22:11:28 heh 22:11:37 Don't most universities teach CS in theor local language? 22:11:48 Yes. 22:12:08 they don't tend to invent new vocabularies to describe the things they're teaching, though. 22:12:09 And while recording courses requires some resources, the price is really cheap. 22:12:12 pjb: On the other hand, they could have listenend to me a decade or two ago, but they didn't so I am kind of tired of trying to explain things to them, because "beach always has crazy ideas" 22:12:24 I sure understand. 22:12:52 Fade: So in French speaking universities vocabulary is reinvented? 22:13:04 symbole: or invented. 22:13:10 symbole: It is not what you think. 22:13:14 there's an institute of teh french language in france that is responsible for that. 22:13:24 Fade: That is also false. 22:13:33 -!- blippy [1000@217.155.40.178] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:14:20 BobTheWikipedian [4b10e7b9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.16.231.185] has joined #lisp 22:14:27 Well, there's the Académie Française, and there are also La commission générale de terminologie et de néologie. 22:14:38 Vocabulary is invented by colleagues of mine, not beacuse we don't like English vocabulary, but because English words don't integrate well into French. The Franch Academy just documents observation. 22:14:44 -!- zac314159 [~user@c-68-84-149-234.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:14:45 it is not regulated by the Academie francaise? 22:14:46 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.54.141] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:15:04 pjb: Nobody is put in prison by using terminology other than what is documented. 22:15:08 The commission is not an institute, it's a governmental body. 22:15:18 beach: Well, there's the Toubon law... 22:15:20 I repeat, the French Academy *documents current usage*. 22:15:25 But of course it's not applied. 22:15:31 pjb: Toubon is not around anymore. 22:15:34 :-) 22:15:52 pjb: We called him "Jack Allgood" :) 22:16:13 Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 22:16:43 hi folks.... 22:17:02 Fade: I personally invented "langage enchâssé". It will soon be in the official academy documents. 22:17:06 hello BobTheWikipedian 22:17:16 -!- SpitfireWP [~Spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [Quit: It's getting dark, too dark to see.] 22:17:21 Good word. 22:17:34 Beautiful! 22:17:34 _6502_ [5895bdc9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.149.189.201] has joined #lisp 22:17:54 BobTheWikipedian: New here? 22:17:57 What does it mean? 22:18:05 embedded language. 22:18:09 symbole: "embedded language" 22:18:11 i have been assigned the task of writing a lisp program for a class and was wondering if there is a good freeware compiler/runtime environment 22:18:12 a project I was working on in Paris had all kinds of problems when it came time to document. we ended up with a lot of awkward literal translations. 22:18:18 yep, new here 22:18:25 BobTheWikipedian: i'd advise clisp or ccl. 22:18:30 p_l|uni [~pl@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 22:18:31 symbole: But there are several options in French, and it took some work to find the right one. 22:18:38 lol, enchâssé :D 22:18:46 will either of those run on 32-bit windows? 22:18:50 http://clisp.cons.org/ http://openmcl.clozure.com/ 22:19:00 clisp runs on MS-Windows all right. 22:19:01 beach: I think terminology in the native language sound much better. Everytime I hear English business buzzwords in other languages, it just sounds horrible. 22:19:10 alright thanks i'll try that 22:19:37 symbole: I agree, and in French, it definitely sounds like the person has no clue what he or she is talking about. 22:19:40 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-174.mirrorimage.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:19:55 what about country/city names, etc.? 22:19:55 BobTheWikipedian: On MS-Windows, you might also consider evaluation versions of commercial implementations such as Allegro (Franz.com) or lispworks (lispworks.com). 22:20:06 -!- m314 [~user@0x573f21e5.arcnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:20:07 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:20:19 symbole: au contraire, I've noticed a trend for tech-speak to be kept in English, even between two native speakers of a different, same language. :) 22:20:27 symbole: Once we had a DEC representative who tried to sell us workstation, and when he started talking about the "operating système", we decided not to buy his computers. 22:20:30 i won't be needing the software for anything other than this one assignment, so i don't really wish to purchase anything 22:20:38 it's an interesting observation. nobody complains about latin in medicine, or greek in math. :) 22:20:46 p_l|uni: it really depends on the effort made to invent good terminology. 22:21:07 what sort of time restriction is there on the evaluation version? 22:21:16 kenanb [~kenanb@88.243.169.186] has joined #lisp 22:21:23 p_l|uni: eg in French nobody would use "computer" for "ordinateur" because the word "ordinateur" is much better, etymologically and semantically. 22:21:28 pjb: Well, depends. In polish, quite a bit of "native" terminology got lost. Probably in part because some of it was marketing-incompatible :> 22:21:30 Fade: Latin or Greek seems to integrate better into several European languages than English does, despite common roots. 22:21:37 BobTheWikipedian: ccl and clisp (and sbcl and abcl) are free software. 22:22:02 oh, i see. 22:22:14 LispWorks runs 5h per session 22:22:15 if you have windows, allegro is a good option. 22:22:18 BobTheWikipedian: the evaluation versions are somewhat limited in memory size, but for a student project, that should not be a problem. 22:22:23 pmd: I find that country and city names depend on history. If there was a presence there is a particular name, like "Miklagård" for "Istambul". 22:22:34 the free version are limited by memory, and no session can span more than 5 hours without restarting. 22:22:49 BobTheWikipedian: acl has a time limit, but it's renewable indefinitely. There is a heap limit, but it's pretty big for most applications. 22:23:16 pjb: most of the current terminology in polish is slight modification of english terminology. OTOH, till today, I've seen near total dislike towards french CS terminology 22:23:30 BobTheWikipedian: not sure about lispworks, but should be similar :) 22:23:53 p_l|uni: there are just too many sylables in french terms. 22:23:55 p_l|uni: you should emulate the French process, not blindly import French (or English) words. 22:24:03 p_l|uni: It might be because French words don't integrate well into Polish. 22:24:18 I could eat lunch in the time it takes to tell somebody that you'll send details via 'courier electronique' 22:24:20 looks like the list i'm working with is just under a meg 22:24:46 Fade: That's unfair and I think you know it. 22:24:49 Fade: there's couriel, ou mél :-) 22:24:58 hehe 22:25:07 -!- PCChris [~PCChris@wireless-165-124-137-190.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:25:11 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-094-167.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:25:17 well, it could be worse. I think the welsh have a real problem. 22:25:35 -!- kmwallio [~kmwallio@host113-70.brownlie.fit.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:25:39 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-11-59.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:25:42 -!- xan_ [~xan@222-242-13-72.static.cosmoweb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:25:44 -!- _6502_ [5895bdc9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.149.189.201] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:25:52 BobTheWikipedian: should be comfortable on any of the opensource/free/demo choices :) 22:26:07 beach: no, it was because of the near-universal use of english terms. Most of the proposed "polish" terms either were designed by language snobs (and thus abhorred due to their forced creation), were unwieldy remains of old ("maszyna cyfrowa" = "digital machine" etc.) or got disused due to being not exactly acceptable for non-techies who lack humour (like an old equivalent of "interface", "midzymordzie", replaced by "interfejs") 22:26:11 Fade: I could say the same thing about "foies gras" (fat liver of duck or goose, you know one that has been force feed with corn and cream, though not really force feed because they relly like it you know). 22:26:18 looks like the clisp website has redirected me to cygwin 22:26:24 is that the same thing only for windows 22:26:29 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-98-163.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:26:30 BobTheWikipedian, you could checkout lispbox 22:26:31 I find some loan-words from English to French to be rather jarring: week-end, shampooing, parking. I appreciate the effort to come up with terminology that fits into the language. 22:26:38 the only problems I ran into /w alisp were heap related to some free libs like hunchentoot not having enough heap depending on what else is loaded. 22:26:42 erory [~rory_elri@203-206-172-3.perm.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 22:26:46 minion: tell BobTheWikipedian about lispbox 22:26:48 BobTheWikipedian: please see lispbox: Lispbox is a version of Lisp in a Box, which was originally created by Matthew Danish and Mikel Evins, customized for use with Practical Common Lisp. http://www.cliki.net/lispbox 22:26:54 will do 22:26:59 beach: in english, we have no qualms with using the terms of the language that defined the object. 22:27:12 oh that links not good 22:27:22 most of the polish loanwords were words that didn't have previous equivalents, and polish spelling is *very* flexible 22:27:24 p_l|uni: I see. 22:27:57 BobTheWikipedian, try this instead http://common-lisp.net/project/lispbox/ 22:28:27 beach: also, polish language has *looong* history of loan words - latin was official language well past 15th century, iirc 22:28:31 i thought lispbox had gone stale? 22:28:43 Fade: I defy you to go to deep farm country in the US and asking if they have foie gras. 22:28:44 BobTheWikipedian: get it from https://sourceforge.net/projects/clisp/files/ 22:28:44 kmwallio [~kmwallio@host113-70.brownlie.fit.edu] has joined #lisp 22:28:46 found a zip file that says it should install something for clisp for windows... lispbox 0.7 clisp 2.37 22:28:52 Fade: seems recent enough 22:28:52 downloading it now 22:29:02 BobTheWikipedian: that said, using cygwin is not a bad idea ;-) 22:29:03 -!- edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: edlinde] 22:29:13 beach: They probably will think you're talking about Cannabis ;) 22:29:17 beach: I don't know enough about the rural U.S. but here in Canada, the term is widespread. 22:29:18 pjb: ... actually pretty bad, IMHO :P 22:29:24 that was nearly a pun, happily avoided. 22:29:25 p_l|uni: Sure. Swedish is the same. First Scandinavian, then German, then French, and now English. 22:29:42 There was some other CL for windows package, but I can't remember it 22:29:45 ejohnson: Yeah, something like that. 22:29:50 someone mentioned here before 22:30:10 Fade: consider yourself part of an elite (after all you are on #lisp :)) 22:30:33 thanks for your help guys, if i've got questions while programming or learning how to use the software, i might pop in here again 22:30:38 I hope I haven't given the impression that I don't like French. I'm rather in love with France. 22:30:51 BobTheWikipedian: best of luck with the assignment! 22:30:52 Fade: Not at all. Don't worry about it. 22:31:00 thanks! God bless y'all 22:31:00 but as an outsider, there are aspects of the french attitude toward french culture that are somewhat baffling. 22:31:07 -!- BobTheWikipedian [4b10e7b9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.75.16.231.185] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:31:14 the notion of an 'official culture' 22:31:17 *Fade* shrugs 22:31:29 Fade: I think you will find that that attitude is largely invented. 22:31:42 it seemed very real when I lived in Paris. :) 22:31:48 Fade: Have a look at The Great Revolution, and you'll find where it came from. 22:31:55 Fade: When was that? 22:31:56 beach: the thing is, polish and latin are completely unrelated languages... which has rather weird issues regarding changes caused by time :) 22:32:05 2005-2009 22:32:30 Fade: I am very surprised about that. Perhaps you should have been in Bordeaux instead. 22:32:46 I've been to Bordeaux, but it was always in transit 22:33:01 beach: heh. I heard once that in Austria the government actually tried to manufacture an "image" of cultured, middle class Austrian after WW2 in order to boost the economy :) 22:33:14 p_l|uni: Bah, I can almost read Russian because of the huge number of imports from western languages. 22:33:59 Fade: My friend from Paris described the belief as "Commutarism" I think. Is that what you are thinking of? 22:34:03 I kind of like the sense that there's a bit of disintegration of the tower of babel since the internet. 22:34:18 *beach* needs to go to bed! See you tomorrow! 22:34:30 g'night 22:34:33 beach: Well, I did that with a manual that was in german and french (mixing both to understand). However, any complex russian text will be largely unintelligible for someone used to germanic or roman languages, IMHO, due to free-form grammar 22:34:46 ejohnson: no, just a set of cultural institutions that define and mandate what french culture is. 22:34:48 beach: good to talk with you again. 22:35:05 OTOH, there even exists a "middle ground" language that is equivalently understandable by Czech, Polish and Russian speakers :) 22:35:16 perhaps it's a reaction to living in tension with english since the normans left the uk. i don't know. 22:35:17 Fade: Ah yes, I guess they are subtly different points. 22:35:49 you see that particularly accutely in Quebec, where it is illegal to have english shop signs. 22:36:05 Fade: That can't be true. 22:36:09 oh it is 22:36:21 Jesus! 22:36:24 you can have english, but they must be signifigantly smaller than the french signs. 22:36:33 hahhaa 22:36:37 but you cannot have just english. 22:36:37 is Jesus considered english? 22:36:55 Fade: That's ludicrous. 22:36:56 (for instance) 22:37:29 pmd: that would be a name ;) 22:37:37 pmd: Jesus is American. 22:37:45 it's extremely ludicrous. it's so ludicrous that when the canadian supreme court struck down the law, the government of quebec invoked the "notwithstanding clause" which is a mechanism that allows the government to set aside the constitution when it is inconvenient to follow it. 22:38:00 symbole: He's also my parent's neighbor, who's Mexican born ;) 22:38:20 ejohnson: That's exactly who I had in mind. 22:38:30 cool! 22:38:38 Fade: I guess it's no different than renaming French fries to Freedom fries. 22:38:44 ejohnson: is McDonald's english? 22:38:48 well, i don't know about that 22:39:03 Except the whole ignoring the law part :) 22:39:34 Fade: Is the law actually enforced, does your average Joe care? 22:39:40 but the language situation in Quebec is a kind of legal dystopia created by taking la fracaphonie to the ludicrous extreme. 22:39:41 pmd: McDonald is a last name. 22:39:54 pmd: Scottish I believe. 22:39:59 symbole: oh, they have people in uniform that run around fining you for violations. 22:40:05 it's a special constabulary. 22:40:21 -!- smanek [~smanek@c-98-206-218-88.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:40:24 That's just halarious. 22:40:56 So the citizens agree with this? 22:40:57 *p_l|uni* recalls something similar, but executed in more sane way, in Poland 22:41:02 my company has a telephone number in Montreal served by a PBX in toronto, and we had somebody from this agency call us up threatening to fine us because our voice ladder wasn't in french. 22:41:37 symbole: a friend-of-a-friend once got kicked out of a bus for speaking english, or so I heard... but that was a fringe case 22:42:01 symbole: well, the quebecois agree with it by and large. the anglophone minority in Quebec is rather oppressed by the state. 22:42:08 p_l|uni: Ugh, I'm speechless. 22:42:20 they can't even send their kids to english schools unless they can prove that they were educated in english in quebec. 22:43:00 being a native english speaker educated in, say, Oxford, or in Toronto does not qualify your children for education in english in quebec. 22:43:07 even though the schools exist! 22:43:34 lol 22:43:55 *p_l|uni* nearly went to dual-language school were near everything was taught in french. Not an issue in poland :) 22:45:12 anyhow, this is wildly off topic. sorry. 22:46:45 The parents are going to be very dissapointed, because kid aren't going to follow these rules. 22:48:30 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-094-167.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 22:49:30 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:50:20 egor_tensin [~egor@217.197.5.81] has joined #lisp 22:50:39 jweiss_ [~jweiss@72.243.126.114] has joined #lisp 22:51:02 -!- muhdik [~IceChat7@parkmobile-usa.oneringnetworks.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:51:57 -!- egor_tensin [~egor@217.197.5.81] has quit [Client Quit] 22:51:58 smanek [~smanek@c-98-206-218-88.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:52:18 egor_tensin [~egor@217.197.5.81] has joined #lisp 22:52:19 xan_ [~xan@rrcs-69-193-205-118.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:56:48 -!- smanek [~smanek@c-98-206-218-88.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:58:05 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 23:01:50 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050067096.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:04:18 katesmith_ [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 23:07:20 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:07:47 thom_logn [~thom@pool-74-100-140-188.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:08:39 What does it really mean when SBCL says, "Control stack guard page temporarily disabled: proceed with caution"? 23:08:44 Should I restart SBCL? 23:10:28 -!- bobbysmith0071 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:11:01 stack overflow 23:11:03 I think that means you blew the stack, and there's a little bit of stack left for you to use. 23:11:07 -!- whee [~whee@cpe-69-207-148-170.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 23:11:15 did you inline a recursive function ? 23:11:24 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:11:32 whee [~whee@cpe-69-207-148-170.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:12:06 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 23:12:22 -!- Edward_ [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-15-68.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 23:12:23 ideally you get a debugger with that message. If not, your choices are obviously limited. 23:13:33 or it is the debugger itself going deep recursively 23:13:37 Actually, we also know how to get that with a /single/ function-call. 23:13:58 how? 23:14:04 But, yeah, it means you blew your control stack. 23:14:10 #309469 bug 23:14:11 ok #lispcafe is not replying, I'll give it a go here. What's a nice portable way to do the equivalent of "cp foo bar"? 23:14:13 fe[nl]ix: APPLY with a sufficiently-large list. 23:14:26 schmrkc: alexandria:copy-file 23:14:33 Xach: big up! 23:14:42 nuff respect 23:15:06 Works even better if the function being called takes an &REST argument. 23:15:06 schmrkc: "nice" and "portable" are at odds here. 23:15:07 *schmrkc* closes cliki for a while then. I was browsing the "system programming" section but no win there. 23:15:20 Question 23:15:29 nyef: Oh ya? Mostly portable is what matters. Nice I can live without :) 23:15:43 I have a sorting function and want to pass it a custom operator to compare two values, like so: &optional (grter (lambda (x y) (> x y))) 23:15:46 -!- eugu [~eugene@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:15:57 zac314159 [~user@c-68-84-149-234.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:16:20 This works fine, but when I try to use a function call to look into a structure's field within the lamba, it breaks 23:16:31 Am I doing anything wrong? Missing quotes or something? 23:16:34 Protected: how does it break? 23:16:38 Protected: what did you write? 23:16:39 homie, rtoym: okay, so I blew the stack but is my Lisp fundamentally corrupted? 23:16:44 Protected: paste.lisp.org can help if it's lengthy 23:16:49 Well, it apparently tries to compare the structure itself rather than the field 23:17:00 Just a second 23:17:09 Assuming I landed in the debugger and was able to abort from there. 23:17:14 gigamonkey: not yet maybe but very soon, on the next try 23:17:15 (lambda (x y) (> (our-metatask-starting.time x) (our-metatask-starting.time y))) 23:17:16 Taiyou` [~Taiyou@141.117.174.147] has joined #lisp 23:17:20 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-141-119.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:17:38 Protected: You're trying to funcall #'some-structure-field-accessor ? 23:17:40 I wrote this and it tells me #S(.... lots of stuff ....) isn't a real value 23:17:42 Correct 23:18:15 smanek [~smanek@c-98-206-218-88.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:18:24 our-metatask is created with defstruct 23:18:36 Protected: Maybe someone else can figure it out, but I can't. Can you paste more of the code to paste.lisp.org? 23:19:06 Protected: Also, might be good to copy the :key style of standard CL functions so you don't have to write convoluted lambdas like that. 23:19:25 :key style? 23:19:32 gigamonkey: https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/567992 23:19:32 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:19:49 There isn't any more code, just (funcall grter a b) 23:19:52 It's a test function 23:19:59 Protected: yes, e.g. (sort list-of-conses #'< :key #'car) to sort a list of conses on the car. 23:20:02 Protected: Are you sure you don't have some other call to > in your sort function? 23:20:17 Yes :) I looked carefully 23:20:24 Protected: instead of (sort list-of-conses (lambda (x y) (< (car x) (car y)))) 23:20:39 Xach: I see, I'll give it a try, thanks 23:20:43 That looks a lot better :P 23:21:18 copy-file actually was a bit ugly under the hood (: 23:21:28 -!- Guest96643 [~deanz@64.241.87.62] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:21:47 -!- seangrove [~user@c-71-198-44-87.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:22:51 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-119-212.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:38 rtoym: could you make a specific condition for the warning in code/package.lisp:1079 ? 23:23:55 -!- Taiyou` [~Taiyou@141.117.174.147] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:24:18 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-248-40.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:24:45 Guest96643 [~deanz@64.241.87.62] has joined #lisp 23:25:20 Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.228.11.235] has joined #lisp 23:26:12 -!- smanek [~smanek@c-98-206-218-88.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:26:53 Taiyou` [~Taiyou@141.117.174.147] has joined #lisp 23:27:13 schmrkc: yes, but you don't have to look! 23:28:45 Ok. Here comes the kicker. What's the portable (and nice) way of doing "cp -R foo bar" ? ;) 23:29:02 -!- trigen [~MSX@81.18.253.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:29:04 looking at osicat's walk-directory atm. 23:29:29 schmrkc: at least you asked about cp... 23:29:44 schmrkc: if you had asked about mv, then the heads would roll 23:30:01 -!- egor_tensin [~egor@217.197.5.81] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:30:17 p_l|uni: Well mv is not what I want :) 23:31:09 What I quite enjoy with the quicklisp "package mangler" as opposed to standard linux ones is that I get all the source all the time (: (: 23:31:24 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:32:15 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:32:34 schmrkc: sounds like Gentoo... :P 23:33:37 kclifton_ [~kclifton@s198-166-45-245.ab.hsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 23:33:37 -!- kclifton_ [~kclifton@s198-166-45-245.ab.hsia.telus.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:34:35 p_l|uni: I don't think gentoo keeps the source around. 23:34:38 anybody know of a "better" lisp reader for sbcl? 23:34:43 Bavarious [~bavarious@pdpc/supporter/student/bavarious] has joined #lisp 23:34:48 oh this will be a good one. 23:34:53 devinus_: WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!? 23:35:03 *ahem* 23:35:12 e.g. python has ipython 23:35:15 schmrkc: it does 23:35:16 sbcl has...? :) 23:35:20 (trace gethash) crashes sbcl? 23:35:21 devinus_: slime 23:35:28 devinus_: Also check out bpython for python. 23:35:39 -!- Bavarious [~bavarious@pdpc/supporter/student/bavarious] has left #lisp 23:35:42 devinus_: SLIME. If you can't use SLIME, check out prepl 23:35:42 devinus_: rlwrap maybe, but only console 23:35:46 p_l|uni: Interesting. 23:35:48 dang...i use vim -_- 23:35:53 prepl, ok 23:35:53 Fade: seems likely. tracing standard functions is not required to work. 23:35:59 devinus_: slimv might be an alternative there for the vim. 23:36:10 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@114.93.132.195] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:36:16 devinus_: i use linedit when i'm not in slime. it's a matter of (ql:quickload "linedit") and (linedit:install-repl) 23:36:27 devinus_: mind you, SLIME is superior. there's also Nektuth(sp?) and Limp 23:36:30 devinus_: While I applaud your useage of vim I will tell you that for lisp vim is pretty crap. 23:36:38 limp is deprecated 23:36:45 slimv I think is the active one 23:36:46 Xach: prepl uses linedit's repl plus some extras 23:36:50 it's slimv now 23:36:54 huh 23:37:01 now that's something I haven't thought about. 23:37:10 -!- kclifton [~kclifton@s198-166-45-245.ab.hsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:37:21 it's not crap anymore, never really has been. 23:37:37 it's just the thought of 'if it isn't slime/emacs, it is crap' that prevails here. 23:37:53 i've used vim happily with lisp for decades. 23:38:46 p_l|uni: i just started prepl and it doesn't do tab completion for me. what do i need to do to make that work? 23:38:58 Xach: oh, does linedit add tab-completion now? 23:39:21 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: format t "motherfuckers"] 23:39:26 p_l|uni: "now"? that's kind of one of the whole reasons to use it. 23:39:29 *p_l|uni* didn't see tab completion in any REPL without "proper" IDE 23:39:48 ah, it doesn't crash sbcl 23:39:52 p_l|uni: that, and history, emacs-like bindings, paren matching - does prepl do that? 23:39:53 Xach: then I retract my suggestion for prepl, I did recall it using linedit and adding some extra commands 23:39:59 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-36-236.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:40:13 p_l|uni: i think hemlock.tty is supposed to do some of that, but i couldn't get it to work. 23:40:14 so basically, emacs is the way to go if you're using any lisp, huh? 23:40:34 devinus_: Not necessariliy, but a lot of people here use it. 23:40:55 devinus_: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/6e91e20f2f371b52?pli=1 has some good tips 23:41:06 *p_l|uni* thinks phemlock.tty is the only hemlock he had seen working, ever 23:41:11 *Xach* is a happy lifelong emacs user 23:41:26 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 23:41:28 p_l|uni: really? clx hemlock works fine for me. 23:41:48 you could also try the big commercial lisps, which have their own IDEs 23:42:49 tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-179-31-38.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 23:43:00 Did CUSP ever get working? 23:43:15 *rpg* just uses emacs, so he doesn't know... 23:43:30 rpg: I think so. 23:44:06 -!- tsuru [~charlie@adsl-87-25-189.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:44:22 CUSP is supposed to be an eclipse plugin for SBCL. 23:44:33 *ejohnson* suddenly gets an urge to see where climacs left off 23:44:38 two sentences, and it's time to feed children.... 23:44:42 ejohnson: it's just a quickload away. 23:44:51 p_l|uni: the hemlock in the cocoa ide shipped with clozure cl is pretty sweet 23:45:05 if you have a mac modern enough for it's interface def'ns to load. 23:45:10 The other alternative, of course, would be to get a lisp machine. ZMACS was pretty damn awesome.... ;-) 23:45:15 Xach: yes, so I heard ;) 23:46:14 hemlock.clx works on my machine, fsvo "works" 23:46:27 What's the magic I do to find where my .asd really is located? as in (defvar *herpdybirfderp* (gimme-the-unixy-location-of-the-asd-as-pathname)) ? 23:46:31 holding the backspace key causes it to spew errors to stderr. 23:46:36 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@83.222.190.105] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:46:40 Don't do that, then! 23:46:52 oh shee. wrong channel again. 23:46:55 ahh, yes. of course. 23:47:11 <-- fergot. 23:47:12 schmrkc: (asdf:system-source-directory 'system-name) 23:47:17 what kind of error? 23:47:19 -!- zac314159 [~user@c-68-84-149-234.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:47:37 'sec. I have to compile it. 23:48:24 minion: memo for stassats: I've added a comment to your github commonqt issue #1 23:48:24 Remembered. I'll tell stassats when he/she/it next speaks. 23:48:47 Xach: that's a bit too easy (: 23:49:05 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-141-119.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 23:49:10 schmrkc: oh, .asd as pathname? 23:49:20 schmrkc: there's a short name for that too, but I'll have to find it. 23:49:26 oconnore [~eric@ip68-225-113-244.mc.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:49:28 Xach: nah I really just need the source dir of the thing. 23:49:29 is the sourcecode for zmacs available publically? 23:49:38 schmrkc: system-definition-pathname 23:50:02 Xach: Your first one was the one I wanted. I asked for the wrong thing (: 23:50:03 Fade: literally, yes, legally, no, is my impression. 23:50:20 *nod* 23:52:43 xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-137-192.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:54:36 Fade: depends on which zmacs you're referring to 23:55:08 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-179-31-38.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:55:12 davazp` [~user@36.Red-79-153-149.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:55:45 Fade: LMI sources are public now 23:56:59 -!- davazp [~user@83.46.0.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:57:49 fe[nl]ix, where? 23:57:55 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:57:58 on jmarshall's page? 23:58:09 http://jrm-code-project.googlecode.com/svn/trunk 23:58:22 thanks 23:58:37 hrmn... I think I broke paste.lisp.org 23:59:02 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:59:22 -!- jconrad [~jconrad@host109-152-181-62.range109-152.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: jconrad] 23:59:28 fe[nl]ix: what's the relationship between zwei and zmacs? 23:59:57 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]