00:02:41 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:52 V-ille [~ville@70.42.89.16] has joined #lisp 00:04:10 -!- mtd [~martin@ops-13.xades.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:04:47 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:09:46 pebkc [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 00:09:52 -!- pebkc is now known as udzinari 00:10:53 -!- xan_ [~xan@18.111.46.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:11:16 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:12:51 -!- _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: format t "motherfuckers"] 00:13:35 pmd: which AI where? 00:14:21 anair_84 [~anair_84@149.142.112.2] has joined #lisp 00:14:56 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:15:40 -!- vroufe [~omx@ppp94-29-9-58.pppoe.spdop.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:18:35 how can I concatenate paths? 00:18:39 (in sbcl) 00:19:30 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:21:49 seangrove: How do you mean? 00:22:18 schmrkc: I think it might be string manipulation, but not sure... like this: 00:22:19 clhs merge-pathnames 00:22:19 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_merge_.htm 00:22:25 bleh 00:22:32 Couldn't even type out my example :) 00:23:28 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 00:23:30 Yupe, looks perfect 00:23:32 thanks jeti 00:23:56 vroufe [~omx@ppp94-29-9-58.pppoe.spdop.ru] has joined #lisp 00:24:26 Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:24:43 or asdf:merge-pathnames* 00:25:16 if you're interested in relative pathnames that don't specify host and/or device 00:27:56 Makoryu` [~bloodgog@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:28:08 -!- Makoryu` is now known as Makoryu 00:37:58 -!- trigen- [~MSX@87.209.144.213] has quit [] 00:40:10 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.1.39.125] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 00:40:15 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@61.99.46.4] has joined #lisp 00:40:46 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.50.118] has joined #lisp 00:43:04 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483C1EB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:47:52 -!- kclifton [~kclifton@s198-166-45-245.ab.hsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: kclifton] 00:49:19 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 00:49:50 Fare: http://ai-contest.com/rankings.php 00:58:47 dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:00:44 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:01:49 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 01:01:55 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:02:36 setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:03:55 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.222.44] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 01:04:47 kmwallio [~kmwallio@host113-70.brownlie.fit.edu] has joined #lisp 01:05:10 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:06:06 Hey guys, I can't seem to figure out how to read from a stream in usocket 01:06:22 attila_lendvai, nice! 01:06:44 some people have too much time on their hand :-) 01:06:58 -!- kjbrock [~kevin@173-11-106-193-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: kjbrock] 01:07:07 arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 01:07:25 http://paste.lisp.org/display/116425 01:07:29 TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@124-171-213-236.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 01:07:31 strong lead for the lisp guy on #1, pretty bad scores for all other lispers. 01:07:52 Fare: the amount is the same, it's all about what you allocate it for... mega1 chosed to advertise lisp... :) 01:08:28 In my http-responder, I think stream is only outgoing... I can't seem to figure out how to read what was sent already :P 01:09:34 -!- vroufe [~omx@ppp94-29-9-58.pppoe.spdop.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:09:35 maybe I can try read stream :P 01:09:47 Jesus 01:09:53 Looks like that kind of worked 01:11:11 dlowe [~dlowe@c-24-61-131-100.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:11:20 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.50.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:12:10 -!- Edward__ [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-45-184.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 01:13:29 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 01:13:44 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu252.queens.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:14:53 -!- Sulimo [~angel@host209-237-dynamic.20-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:15:19 Fare: What version should I take now? 2.011? 01:16:46 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:17:24 Sulimo [~angel@host209-237-dynamic.20-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 01:18:01 fubar [guther@80.94.20.111] has joined #lisp 01:18:46 _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has joined #lisp 01:19:17 -!- fubar [guther@80.94.20.111] has left #lisp 01:20:02 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has left #lisp 01:20:19 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@61.99.46.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:23:47 2.010 is fine 01:23:59 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-135-201-12.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:23:59 you probably already did it. 01:25:41 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 01:26:01 Yeah, I already did 2.010 a few days ago. 01:26:58 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@61.99.46.4] has joined #lisp 01:27:07 thanks, that was it. 01:27:20 hopefully no 2.011 till the end of the month, or later 01:31:11 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.50.118] has joined #lisp 01:31:41 nefo [~nefo@2402:f000:5:8f01::143:81] has joined #lisp 01:31:41 -!- nefo [~nefo@2402:f000:5:8f01::143:81] has quit [Changing host] 01:31:41 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 01:34:38 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 01:34:43 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@61.99.46.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:35:04 billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 01:35:18 percii [~percii@92.98.98.21] has joined #lisp 01:35:23 Greetings 01:36:34 if I have a list (1 2 3 4) and want to discard the first element, I can use " (rest '(1 2 3 4) ) " 01:36:53 I need to the same thing again except I want to discard the last element 01:37:11 I am stumped 01:37:21 clhs butlast 01:37:22 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_butlas.htm 01:38:50 it's an exercise question of the text i'm using, butlast wasn't mentioned in the chapter. thanks 01:43:05 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:45:48 In that case, you should probably try and think about how one could implement butlast. :) 01:47:50 In sbcl, how could I improve the precision of the following: (floor 208.62) 01:47:50 208 01:47:51 0.6199951 01:47:59 -!- Saturnation [~dsouth@pool-70-109-180-199.burl.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 01:48:04 This bites me badly. 01:48:35 <_3b> (floor 20862/100) ? 01:48:36 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:49:13 mek||malloc [~mek@wifi-roaming-243-24.nss.udel.edu] has joined #lisp 01:49:22 <_3b> or use bigger floats, (floor 208.62d0) 01:49:29 mtd [~martin@ops-13.xades.com] has joined #lisp 01:49:33 _3b: I get a float via (read-from-string). 01:49:49 _3b: this is for an invoicing program, so it's important to get the cents right. 01:49:56 clhs *read-default-float-format* 01:49:56 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_rd_def.htm 01:49:57 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:50:02 Using bigger floats just changes the issue to a different point. 01:50:06 And for gods sake, just count pennies, not dollars! 01:50:16 <_3b> yeah, for money, you probably don't want floats 01:50:19 Never, /ever/ use floats for finance. 01:50:23 Actually I count Polish zlotys. 01:50:31 Whichever. 01:50:33 This is only for printing. 01:50:36 But still. 01:50:47 <_3b> pick the smallest fraction of currency you care about, and count in terms of integral amounts of that 01:51:23 Actually, if you're writing real financial software, you should use some fraction (say, thousandths) of the smallest unit of currency available 01:51:30 For printing? Use an integer division to split off the cents from the zlotys, or however your currency works, and print the two sides separately. 01:51:45 Howdy folks, I have a question about arrays in common lisp. Can a vector contain multiple arrays? If so, need they have the same rank? I'm under the impression that a vector is just a one dimensional array but I'm not sure how that effects its capacity. 01:52:05 <_3b> an untyped vector can hold anything 01:52:14 mek||malloc: Vectors can contain anything, including more vectors. 01:52:29 nyef: but before I do that, I round the calculation by format "~$", than I read from string and separate. 01:52:30 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:52:39 nyef: The fuckup is on the read-from-string stage. 01:52:53 _3b and rtoym: Thank you for the clarification. 01:53:08 nyef: ~$ is important for getting .006 right into 0.01. 01:53:09 <_3b> ... you are using format for /rounding/? 01:53:17 Yep, found that the easiest ;) 01:53:28 Since someone already wrote the code for that. 01:53:28 Could anyone point me to a good reference which explains vectors in detail? Right now I'm using http://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/cltl/clm/node162.html and it is limited in examples. 01:54:34 mek||malloc: Have you looked at the hyperspec? 01:54:45 schmrkc: I have not, I shall seek it out. Thanks :o) 01:55:20 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 01:55:24 mek||malloc: I guess it will be around arrays somewhere 01:57:25 joe6 [~joe@c-24-126-150-146.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:57:58 the unix-haters handbook is funny. has anyone here used a lispM machine? 01:58:58 abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:00:11 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:00:12 So for a vector, am I correct in assuming fill-pointer is the (conceptually) tailmost entry which has not been filled? 02:00:36 abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:00:59 mek||malloc: Yes and no. You can set the fill-pointer to point anywhere in the vector. 02:01:23 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:01:38 rtoym: Ah, I see. That was a very helpful explanation. Thank you kindly. 02:02:14 joe6, yes, and so can you 02:02:33 Conceptually, though, it is the the "last" position of the vector. 02:02:56 Fare: any experiences you would like to share? 02:03:12 joe6: I shared them on my website already 02:03:51 Fare: what is your website? 02:04:09 rtoym: How is a fill-pointer set? I do not see this function in the documentation. 02:04:15 http://fare.tunes.org/LispM.html 02:04:33 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-140-37.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:04:35 thanks, will check it out. 02:04:53 andrew007 [~andrew_zu@58.62.14.211] has joined #lisp 02:05:10 felideon [~felideon@adsl-64-225-69.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:05:28 Fare: very interesting and informative website. Thanks a lot. 02:05:38 a bit outdated 02:10:28 _danb_ [~user@124-149-32-186.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 02:11:16 _danb_, hi. Have you done any interesting lisp hacking lately? Any comment on ASDF2? 02:11:39 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.50.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:11:52 (you might not be the danb I'm thinking about, of course) 02:11:59 mek||malloc: (setf (fill-pointer array) index) 02:12:34 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.50.118] has joined #lisp 02:12:38 rtoym: Ah! Thank you again for all of your help :o) I'll see what I can do now. 02:13:49 chp [3d87a5ae@gateway/web/freenode/ip.61.135.165.174] has joined #lisp 02:14:23 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-24-61-131-100.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:14:51 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:17:08 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:18:30 <_danb_> Fare: um, no, I don't think I'm the _danb_ you're looking for 02:19:09 Last question for now (I hope), can more than one &optional parameter be specified with default values? For example, (defun foo (a b &optional (c 5) (d 10)) ( ... ) 02:19:23 yes 02:19:28 -!- joe6 [~joe@c-24-126-150-146.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:20:06 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 02:20:21 Or would I need to use &optional (var value) twice... It seems counter-intuitive since forms like 'let' take lists. 02:21:47 mek: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/03_da.htm 02:22:51 adeht: Ah, that makes sense. Thanks :o) 02:24:46 What would be the canonical way, to split a string on a char? "foo.bar", #\. => "foo" "bar" 02:25:00 minion: split-sequence 02:25:02 split-sequence: SPLIT-SEQUENCE (formerly known as PARTITION) is a member of the Common Lisp Utilities family of programs, designed by community consensus. http://www.cliki.net/split-sequence 02:25:47 adeht: thx 02:26:52 adeht: nice! 02:27:07 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:27:23 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.50.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:29:08 I also liked Naggum's delimited-substrings function 02:32:12 though it's slightly misnamed, should've been called delimited-subsequences (or delimited-subseqs) 02:32:16 -!- jeti [~user@p548E9AB0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:33:32 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: nighty night] 02:34:29 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-164-95.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 02:34:38 -!- percii [~percii@92.98.98.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:37:08 -!- hefner_ [~hefner@ppp-58-9-114-131.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:37:50 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 02:38:51 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:40:11 adeht: Got that Naggums code somewhere handy? Can't seem to find the source by googleing. 02:41:54 (thanks in advance just in case, off to bed for now, will catch up) 02:42:02 http://xach.com/naggum/articles/3115539566299174@naggum.no.html , http://xach.com/naggum/articles/3115568738543631@naggum.no.html 02:46:57 hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-114-131.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 02:51:16 hefner_ [~hefner@ppp-58-9-114-131.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 02:51:16 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-114-131.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:51:17 -!- hefner_ is now known as hefner 02:53:49 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 02:57:04 humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:59:58 is there any way in SLIME to do somewhat of a fuzzy M-. or otherwise display a list of definitions? 03:01:40 could write a fuzzy-apropos-list and go from there ;) 03:03:31 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:03:51 xan_ [~xan@173-13-121-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 03:05:31 :) 03:07:17 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-zorxkpglnzrauijk] has joined #lisp 03:10:28 I guess C-c C-d p (M-x slime-apropos-package) is somewhat similar to what I was looking for 03:12:25 -!- andrew007 [~andrew_zu@58.62.14.211] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:13:38 How can I get a string out of a stream? 03:13:50 seangrove: use a fishing pole? 03:13:58 *yates* ducks... 03:14:28 aiya... 03:14:28 heh 03:14:56 clhs read 03:14:56 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_rd_rd.htm 03:15:08 http://cl-cookbook.sourceforge.net/files.html#line 03:15:21 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 03:18:00 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 03:18:49 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:19:40 skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #lisp 03:21:53 yates: The problem with read (and read-preserving-whitespace) is that it turns "GET / HTTP/1.1" into GET 03:26:38 And I have no idea why... It seems like #'read has more to do with high-level lisp stuff than getting a full sring from a socket stream 03:27:53 read-line is better, thanks vlion 03:29:50 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-149-32-186.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:29:55 -!- konr [~user@187.106.38.106] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:30:29 konr [~user@187.106.38.106] has joined #lisp 03:31:28 seangrove: read is doing exactly what it's supposed to do. 03:31:31 hmm, does #'read pull out token by toekn? 03:31:33 token* 03:31:36 -!- mek||malloc [~mek@wifi-roaming-243-24.nss.udel.edu] has left #lisp 03:32:43 -!- leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:32:43 The exact algorithm is specified in the clhs somewhere. 03:33:00 clhs 2.2 03:33:01 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_b.htm 03:33:38 That's what READ is supposed to do. If that's not your expectation, then adjust your expectations. ;-) 03:38:17 Haha 03:40:44 It doesn't seems like I should expect read to read a stream into a string 03:42:06 If the stream has a Lisp string in it, read will read it. If it doesn't, then read won't. 03:42:23 Perfect, that seemed to be what I was reading 03:42:49 Ok, so very basic: Turn whatever is in the (usocket) stream into a string? 03:42:58 What's the magic incantation? 03:43:35 Good morning everyone! 03:43:45 coerce? 03:43:53 I think it really depends on how you interpret the octets in the socket stream. 03:43:53 clhs coerce 03:43:53 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_coerce.htm 03:44:26 mind you coerce is very violent 03:45:20 I have some read-byte-file-to-ascii-string code /somewhere/ 03:45:28 Ahk... just looking to build a very simple http server 03:45:47 I suppose I can just loop over the stream with read-line 03:46:32 I think alexandria has some function to read a stream into a string. 03:46:44 (One giant string.) 03:47:08 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:47:22 1 moment... 03:47:46 http://pastebin.com/40saVn62 03:49:07 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:49:30 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:51:22 vlion: Looks like that reads character-by-character, pushes each into a variable, and then returns its reverse? 03:51:53 yeah, it's sorta a naive approach to reading a byte file 03:52:07 then, let's see, to read it as a string.. 03:52:47 (concatenate 'string (mapcar #'(lambda (c) (coerce c 'character)) file-data) 03:53:05 Something analogous to /that/ is what I used. I've trimmed some intermediary logic relating to the actual program 03:53:16 please don't take my lisp as beautiful. 03:53:36 Heh, I'll take functional over beautiful right now :) 03:53:55 And I can essentially treat sockets and files as the same, no? 03:54:22 In C, yes. In Lisp, no bluidy clew. 03:55:01 Are you using SBCL? 03:55:06 Yes 03:55:27 *vlion* rummages around some more... startled parentheses flap into the air 03:56:11 I yanked this code from some site on the net and modified it heavily....... 03:57:21 http://pastebin.com/MDDPs934 03:57:47 It's part of a general server, doesn't handle http 03:58:11 sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:59:22 Ah, handler-case looks interesting 03:59:50 Yeah, it's part of the condition handling of common lisp; I'm not 100% competent with that yet. 03:59:57 seangrove: You may want to look at iolib too for a socket library. I've never used it, but I think it's well regarded. 04:00:33 *vlion* tries to find the original site he got the code from 04:00:58 http://jsnell.iki.fi/tmp/echo-server.lisp 04:01:01 checking out iolib... looks nice 04:01:23 heh 04:01:24 1 Overview 04:01:25 Describe IOLib here. 04:01:46 leifw [~user@ool-18bfe73e.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:02:27 -!- skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:02:49 I don't like echo-server very much because it relies on the sb-impl package, which is apparently undocumented. 04:03:15 skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #lisp 04:04:39 leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has joined #lisp 04:05:26 Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:05:54 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:06:05 -!- felideon [~felideon@adsl-64-225-69.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:07:06 seangrove: Here's another link http://cl-cookbook.sourceforge.net/sockets.html 04:09:25 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:10:32 -!- skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:10:33 Very nice 04:10:35 Reading 04:13:12 it's basic unix sockets from what i can tell 04:13:26 the gnarly thing IMO is the concurrent processing 04:13:56 try http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~psilord/blog/data/iolib-tutorial/tutorial.html 04:21:39 -!- Makoryu [~bloodgog@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:30:01 superflit [~superflit@c-24-9-162-197.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:30:15 in the update function defined in chapt 3 of pcl: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/practical-a-simple-database.html 04:30:30 -!- az [~az@p4FE4E9AC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:30:52 why is it (when (funcall selector-fn row)...) and not just (when (selector-fn row)...) ? 04:31:16 Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:32:24 never mind 04:32:26 Because selector-fn is a variable. 04:32:52 *rtoym* is guessing. 04:33:53 ... and because CL is a Lisp-2 (at least!). 04:33:59 i guess because when you call the function and pass it the selector-fn, you use a #' on it 04:34:11 selector-fn is a function designator and not a symbol 04:34:27 yates: You speak nonsense. 04:34:42 _danb_ [~user@124-149-32-186.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 04:35:12 yates: It is a symbol that is the name of a local variable and the value of that local variable is a function, or perhaps a function designator. 04:35:14 -!- The_Fellow [~spider1@glida.mooo.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:35:45 beach: if i speak nonsense, it's because i had good teachers 04:35:50 :) 04:35:58 yates: (selector-fn row) is effectively shorthand for (funcall (function selector-fn) row), as selector-fn is not a special operator or macro. 04:36:36 yates: The question ought to be, why (f a b c) rather than (funcall (function f) a b c), if anything. 04:39:23 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 04:40:28 yates: funcall expects a function designator, so select-fn's _value_ _should_ be a function designator.. 04:40:36 _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has joined #lisp 04:41:18 so a symbol's value slot can be a function designator? 04:41:51 and therefore a symbol could potentially have one function defined in its function slot and another in its value flot? 04:42:07 the symbol value slot's value can be a function designator.. but here we're not even talking about the symbol value slot 04:43:23 adeht: now THAT sounds like nonsense! 04:43:36 rff [~rff@ip72-207-243-174.br.br.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:43:41 selector-fn is not a symbol. 04:43:45 what are we talking about? 04:44:00 yates: we're talking about the value of the variable named by the symbol selector-fn 04:44:28 anyone familiar with suffix tries? 04:44:35 yates: What does the FUNCTION special operator do? 04:44:37 yates: if THAT sounds like nonsense, you should RAFB and get back 04:44:45 rff: Probably. 04:45:10 rff: Although I'm not sure if you mean "trie" or "suffix tree". 04:45:47 ,RAFB 04:45:56 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 04:46:00 yates: Way back when I was confused about this too. 04:46:15 i'm just looking over a problem set and it has to do with finding the longest palindromic suffix. i would interpret that as a suffix of a given string which is a palindrome, does that sound correct? 04:46:23 and yes, I meant tree 04:46:46 -!- leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.20] 04:47:21 Zhivago: it seems to me it takes a function name, i.e., a symbol, and extracts the function in the function slot of that symbol and returns it as a value 04:48:07 yates: you need to read about environments.. LiSP has a great chapter on that 04:48:40 yates: Consider (flet ((x () 1)) (function x)) 04:48:48 adeht: you mean winston's LISP? 04:49:01 yates: Consider (function (lambda () 1)) 04:49:10 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@61.172.241.100] has left #lisp 04:49:31 Zhivago: a lexical closure is returned 04:49:41 Wrong. 04:49:56 There are no free variables to be closed over, so no lexical closure can be formed. 04:50:17 minion: tell yates about lisp 04:50:17 yates: direct your attention towards lisp: "Lisp in Small Pieces". This book covers Lisp, Scheme and other related dialects, their interpretation, semantics and compilation. To sum it up in a few figures: 500 pages, 11 chapters, 11 interpreters and 2 compilers. 04:50:17 But, even so, note how it contradicts your claim above. 04:51:09 minion: tell yates about LiSP. 04:51:09 yates: look at LiSP: "Lisp in Small Pieces". This book covers Lisp, Scheme and other related dialects, their interpretation, semantics and compilation. To sum it up in a few figures: 500 pages, 11 chapters, 11 interpreters and 2 compilers. 04:51:42 thanks adeht, beach 04:52:16 i have to go - i will return in the morning and review this. i apologize for ducking out mid-conversation, Zhivago - thank you for your help 04:52:25 yates: Welcome. 04:52:39 and thanks to you too Ray 04:53:38 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-114-131.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:53:53 hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-114-131.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 04:54:12 slyrus__ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-55-215-234.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:54:35 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-215-204.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:55:02 The_Fellow [~spider1@glida.mooo.com] has joined #lisp 04:56:04 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:57:32 -!- Sulimo [~angel@host209-237-dynamic.20-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:58:59 az [~az@p4FE4ECE5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:01:23 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:01:31 -!- kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:01:39 kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has joined #lisp 05:03:16 Sulimo [~angel@host209-237-dynamic.20-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 05:05:26 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:09:26 Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:10:20 wbooze` [~user@xdsl-87-79-160-66.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 05:12:01 homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-160-66.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 05:12:12 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-245-119.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:12:28 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-245-119.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:19:21 symbole_ [~user@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 05:19:32 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.199] has joined #lisp 05:20:55 bigjust [~bigjust@justin.caratzas.org] has joined #lisp 05:23:22 -!- rff [~rff@ip72-207-243-174.br.br.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:23:42 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:24:01 Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:28:38 -!- yates [~yates@nc-76-3-105-199.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:29:20 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-149-32-186.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:31:31 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:32:12 pavelludiq [~quassel@83.222.175.136] has joined #lisp 05:33:28 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@149.142.112.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:33:55 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 05:34:54 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:40:31 leifw` [~user@ool-18bfe51c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 05:41:49 -!- leifw [~user@ool-18bfe73e.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:42:35 I just did (ql:quickload 'simple-date-time), but I cannot find any documentation on it at all after googling for 5 minutes 05:42:49 I can't figure out how to use it properly from within the repl 05:44:56 kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-wcmnbwuxamflzqxl] has joined #lisp 05:44:56 -!- kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-wcmnbwuxamflzqxl] has quit [Changing host] 05:44:56 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:45:16 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-kamsdjirautafqwb] has joined #lisp 05:45:16 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-kamsdjirautafqwb] has quit [Changing host] 05:45:16 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 05:45:57 seangrove: are you in slime? 05:47:16 Yeah 05:47:19 -!- leifw` [~user@ool-18bfe51c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:47:39 I've tried throwing in some values according to the signatures, but nothings really working 05:48:16 seangrove: read the source? 05:48:25 Fine fine 05:48:27 M-. is handy in these cases. 05:48:35 often, the documentation is in comments right there 05:48:56 Wow, that's very awesome 05:48:58 Thanks 05:49:55 seangrove: new to slime, I take it? 05:51:14 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:53:40 Ralith: Not so new, I don't think 05:53:48 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:53:55 But I went from (various) schemes -> clojure -> sbcl 05:54:15 I ask because M-. is one of many very useful features which you may not be aware of 05:54:18 Ralith: I'm new 05:54:42 Ralith: How do I quickly return to previous buffer? 05:54:54 C-x b, I'd imagine 05:54:55 syntard__: that's emacs, not slime, but C-x b RET 05:55:10 ok, that's what I use 05:55:56 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:56:04 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 05:59:44 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:01:59 churib [~tg@dslb-088-071-150-055.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 06:02:35 -!- dnm [~dnm@c-68-34-57-169.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [] 06:03:56 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 06:06:22 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 06:06:38 dnm [~dnm@c-68-34-57-169.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:07:31 -!- sigjuice [~sigjuice@c-24-130-52-60.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:07:31 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@83.222.175.136] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:10:51 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 06:14:30 sigjuice [~sigjuice@c-24-130-52-60.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:20:51 anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:24:59 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 06:25:26 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:26:07 anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:26:18 lnostdal-android [~androirc@77.17.53.236.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 06:26:38 lispmeister [u272@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-olmuongyqnyxvvuu] has joined #lisp 06:29:15 -!- phrixos [~miar1@bs0176.nerc-bas.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:30:22 phrixos [~miar1@bs0176.nerc-bas.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 06:30:44 -!- xan_ [~xan@173-13-121-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:34:50 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:34:50 -!- karbak [~akr@kar.vps.bitfolk.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:34:56 -!- Yamazaki1kun [~bsa3@2001:ba8:1f1:f0ed:216:5eff:fe00:16b] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:35:39 Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@2001:ba8:1f1:f0ed:216:5eff:fe00:16b] has joined #lisp 06:37:09 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 06:37:45 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 06:39:15 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:39:25 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-90-73.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 06:39:29 -!- abend [~user@alpha.muted.org] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 06:39:35 abend [~user@alpha.muted.org] has joined #lisp 06:40:24 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-131-69.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:43:05 karbak [~akr@kar.vps.bitfolk.com] has joined #lisp 06:43:06 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:43:24 _danb_ [~user@124-149-32-186.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 06:44:29 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@167.80-203-136.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:44:32 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 06:45:34 <_danb_> (macro newby question) I'm a little confused with this macro (defmacro unit-of-time (value unit) `(* ,value ,(case unit ((s) 1) ((m) 60)))) 06:46:01 leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has joined #lisp 06:46:12 <_danb_> "unit" has to be known at compile time 06:46:27 <_danb_> it has to be either the symbol s or m 06:46:43 <_danb_> is that because "case" is also a special form / macro ? 06:50:37 No. Maybe you want (case ,unit ...) instead of ,(case unit ...). 06:51:05 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:51:08 what mail clients do you guys use? 06:56:39 -!- symbole_ [~user@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:56:56 <_danb_> rtoym: yes that seems better; the example is a simplified version from a book called "let over lambda" and he pointedly says that information for unit is required at compile time (based on the version I've got there) 06:57:54 let over lambda is wonderful =) 06:58:06 Ralith: Emacs+VM, but it is breaking down these days, due to lots of attachments. I haven't found anything better though. 06:59:28 Ralith: I would like to use Stamp, the email reader I have developed with mvilleneuve and some students, but it is not complete yet, and I would like to use Climacs for writing email, but same story there. 06:59:53 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 07:00:57 Ralith: I used to use GNUS a lot. But now I just mostly use thunderbird. 07:01:56 <_danb_> humasect: can you explain why (unit-of-time 1 (car '(s m))) expands to (* 1 nil) but (unit-of-time 1 s) is fine; my brain is a bit fuzzed... 07:02:32 because m is nothing ? 07:03:41 because it's not evaluated? 07:04:05 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 07:04:25 -!- sigjuice [~sigjuice@c-24-130-52-60.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:07:17 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:07:44 anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:07:52 daniel__ [~daniel@p5082ADE7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:08:08 <_danb_> stassats: so it's kind of like the difference between (case (car '(s m)) ((s) 1)) and (case '(car '(s m)) ((s) 1)) 07:09:06 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-158-125.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: I'm big in Japan] 07:09:22 _danb_: Inside the macroexpander, for (unit-of-time 1 (car '(s m))), the value of VALUE is 1, and the value of UNIT is the list (car '(s m)), so since the value of UNIT is neither s nor m, the case returns NIL. 07:09:31 _danb_: i thought you were a real dan_b! 07:09:52 sigjuice [~sigjuice@c-24-130-52-60.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:10:08 <_danb_> yeh, I'm not whoever it is who is hacking on sbcl or whatever it is, so I should telegraph that 07:10:30 _danb_: In the second case, the value of UNIT is the symbol s, so the first clause of the case succeeds. 07:10:39 _danb_: Does this give you an idea? 07:10:53 <_danb_> beach: let me read that first part slowly and carefully :) 07:10:55 -!- jdz [~jdz@87.4.39.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:10:55 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:10:55 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5B32755B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:11:40 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:12:06 anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:12:12 i wonder why is it a macro in the first place 07:14:18 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-125-205.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:14:29 <_danb_> beach: yes, I think I do; I like the way you said "inside the macroexpander"; that helped me to think about evaluation at that point as opposed to evaluation after the macro returns the code 07:16:16 sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:16:33 <_danb_> I *think* anyway; still a newb at this. Thanks beach 07:17:05 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-90-73.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:17:18 flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has joined #lisp 07:17:18 -!- flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has quit [Changing host] 07:17:18 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 07:17:22 _danb_: Sure, no problem. 07:19:37 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 07:22:07 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-165-179.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:26:20 -!- murilasso [~murilasso@189.103.20.140] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:26:41 murilasso [~murilasso@189.103.20.140] has joined #lisp 07:27:30 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 07:28:24 <_danb_> so for (unit-of-time (car '(1 2)) s), inside the macro expander the value for VALUE is (car '(1 2)) but is evaluated giving 1; in the previous example where UNIT was (car '(s m)), UNIT is not "directly" evaluated; but isn't that because (case ...) is a special form ? 07:28:27 <_danb_> sorry :/ 07:30:12 <_danb_> ugh, no I guess not... confused ... 07:31:09 -!- Salamander__ is now known as Salamander 07:36:55 -!- koollman [~samson_t@ns301422.ovh.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:37:46 <_danb_> the case-form gets evaluated with UNIT being what it is; so it's effectively doing (case '(car '(1 2)) ...) - using my first example. If we directly evaluated it - (case ,unit ...) - then the case-form is not evaulated inside the macro expander but UNIT is... 07:37:58 <_danb_> anyway, I'll stop there :) 07:38:19 koollman [~samson_t@ns301422.ovh.net] has joined #lisp 07:41:06 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-8-91.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:41:56 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:46:22 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:46:47 good morning 07:48:23 LinGmnZ [~isra.wic@183.89.206.179] has joined #lisp 07:48:58 Maou [~isra.wic@183.89.206.179] has joined #lisp 07:49:11 hello mvilleneuve 07:49:34 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 07:49:52 _danb_: Something like that, yes. 07:52:57 -!- LinGmnZ [~isra.wic@183.89.206.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:53:35 LinGmnZ [~isra.wic@183.89.206.179] has joined #lisp 07:53:38 -!- Maou [~isra.wic@183.89.206.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:53:54 -!- lnostdal-android [~androirc@77.17.53.236.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:54:28 -!- daniel__ is now known as daniel 07:55:56 -!- leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:58:00 -!- LinGmnZ [~isra.wic@183.89.206.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:58:46 gozek [~quassel@85.52.166.111] has joined #lisp 08:01:02 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-170-101.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:01:05 -!- c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:03:53 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-125-205.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:04:07 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-2-157.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:04:59 freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn1-126.vpn.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 08:05:12 c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 08:05:55 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-170-101.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:06:55 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 08:08:09 -!- vlion [~user@76.178.165.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:09:06 Hun [~Hun@80.81.19.29] has joined #lisp 08:13:41 *osoleve* is back. 08:16:02 how did it go? 08:18:12 saying "/me is back" without saying "i will be back" destroys the whole concept 08:19:00 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:19:03 jdz: don't give any ideas! 08:19:37 anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:20:14 my point was: if you don't do it properly, don't do it at all :) 08:20:42 with the stress on "don't do it at all" part 08:22:45 pavelludiq [~quassel@83.222.175.136] has joined #lisp 08:23:39 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 08:24:02 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Client Quit] 08:28:41 *osoleve* is away: Gone away for now 08:29:03 osoleve: you do it wrong, so please stop doing it 08:29:30 osoleve: you should not do it even if you do it properly, too 08:30:27 maybe he's a time-traveller 08:30:34 *stassats* is still here 08:30:47 stassats: how about now? 08:30:59 let me check 08:31:18 *ehu* was here when he hit 08:31:34 Lajla [~Lajla@213-84-222-243.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 08:32:16 -!- Salamander__ is now known as Salamander 08:32:28 To a random person here, is (+ "abc" "xyz") ; ===> "ÙÛÝ" in lieu of (+ "abc" "xyz") ; ===> "abcxyz" truly bizarrely 'counter-intuitive'? I trust you see what the first example does. 08:32:49 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 08:32:52 Lajla: this is not Common Lisp 08:33:00 stassats, I know. 08:33:05 But I'm just asking some lispers. 08:33:17 Because someone told me that that behaviour is 'bizarrely counter intuitive' 08:33:41 it's bizarrely counter-intuitive to me seeing + working on not numbers 08:33:49 abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 08:34:14 stassats, it could be argued that + on numbers is a special case of its definition on vectors. 08:34:29 Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 08:35:02 Like (+ 3 (vector 1 2 3 4)) ; ===> #(4 5 6 7) and it adds vectors by just sequentially adding all the vectors, it would follow from that that (+ 2 3) ; ===> 5 08:35:18 stassats, but you find string concatenation with + bizarrely counter-intutive? 08:35:29 yes 08:35:30 yes 08:36:03 Lajla: what would (+ (vector 3) (vector 1 2 3 4)) do? 08:36:14 More so or less so than + defined on vectors (of necessarily same length) as adding them sequentially? 08:36:19 jdz, an error I guess. 08:36:25 Lajla: why? 08:36:33 Sameway (mapcar + '(1 2 3) '(1 2 3 4)) is one 08:37:06 Lajla: you're so full of yourself 08:37:07 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 08:37:37 jdz, well, what I can I do when I'm that good. 08:37:50 Lajla: you learn to read error messages 08:38:09 hehe 08:38:29 (mapcar '+ '(1 2 3) '(1 2 3 4)) is not an error 08:38:35 Oh well, it is in scheme 08:38:41 To be honest, I do not CL. 08:38:46 #scheme is ====> that way 08:38:47 I have sold my soul to the dark side of TCO. 08:39:03 Well, I just entered #lisp, I had no idea it was for common lisp until I entered it. 08:39:03 and the first thing we established was that this channel is about Common Lisp 08:39:32 Lajla: do you read the topic? 08:39:33 That's all irrelevant to be honest. Because the behaviour I spoke off is neither scheme nor common lisp. 08:39:42 I'm just asking some lispers if they findeither counter-intuitive. 08:39:50 Lajla: it's highly suggestive this channel might be about common lisp 08:40:11 Lajla: I simply find it to be ambiguous 08:40:23 ehu, what of it? I'm simply asking some lispers if they find using + to add strings or sequentially operating on vectors or what-not counter-intuitive. 08:40:30 there's a fine line between useful operators and overloading-hell 08:40:41 Lajla: we already established that the behaviour you described is neither intuitive, nor predictable 08:40:47 what about (* vector vector) should it do dot product or cross product? 08:41:12 stassats, obviously neither. 08:41:21 It's just * on all the sequential elements. 08:41:30 i wonder where does the "obviously" part come from... 08:41:34 Cross products only apply in 3 or seven dimensions if I recall correctly. 08:41:35 that is counter intuitive! 08:41:42 eh? 08:41:58 that's not a correct recollection 08:42:03 it's a general operation 08:42:05 -!- Revolve [~hi@cpc4-bagu10-2-0-cust705.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:42:19 uh 08:42:21 sort of 08:42:27 stassats, anyway, stop being so argumentative, it's not debating which is better, or what-not, I'm just asking if you find + for string concatnation counter infuitive, and you've answered that. 08:42:59 'But if the product is limited to non-trivial binary products with vector results it only exists in three and seven dimensions.' accordingly wikipedia 08:43:11 the outer product is a general operation. What's normally meant by the vector "cross-product" is the interpretation of the non-trivial components of an outer product as a (pseudo)vector 08:43:14 Revolve [~hi@cpc4-bagu10-2-0-cust705.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:43:38 smanek [~smanek@adsl-70-232-163-80.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:43:52 huh 08:44:33 Guthur [c0c1f510@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.193.245.16] has joined #lisp 08:44:33 Lajla: anyway, welcome to #lisp. If you don't conform to the lisp spec, you will confuse the drones here. Enjoy your stay :) 08:45:24 -!- abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:45:29 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:45:55 Well, since my quaestion was more or less answered, I will probably idle here henceforthnowon until either Hell freezes over or I turn off my computer, whichever comes first. 08:46:28 (I'd never come across the seven-dimensional version before today. Thank you!) 08:46:51 phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 08:47:10 I go where I please, and I pleas where I go. 08:48:59 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-114-131.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:50:18 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-105-79.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:52:40 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-2-157.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:53:08 -!- Revolve [~hi@cpc4-bagu10-2-0-cust705.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:53:25 konr` [~user@187.106.38.106] has joined #lisp 08:53:40 hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-114-131.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 08:54:38 Revolve [~hi@cpc4-bagu10-2-0-cust705.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:54:44 -!- Sulimo [~angel@host209-237-dynamic.20-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 08:57:04 -!- konr [~user@187.106.38.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:58:49 anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:59:12 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:01:06 petercoulton [~petercoul@152.105.51.87] has joined #lisp 09:02:23 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-253-3.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:03:45 hmm, I'm using sbcl --script, but still want the init files to be read. Is there any way to fiddle the toplevel options to do so without hardcoding a path to .sbclrc? 09:04:25 Phoodus: isn't --script just a shorthand for a handful other options? 09:04:36 yes, which include --no-userinit and --no-sysinit 09:04:41 but not shorthand for a script runner 09:04:46 that's implied in --script 09:05:11 so actually, no, it's not a shorthand for other options, but includes other options 09:05:38 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-105-79.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:05:45 don't use --script? 09:06:24 ok. So how do I get the same effect without it? 09:06:34 Phoodus: --load --eval '(sb-ext:quit)' 09:06:44 hmm 09:07:03 -!- dnm [~dnm@c-68-34-57-169.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:07:09 yeah, I guess on the sbcl commandline, there's room for sbcl-specifics 09:07:41 basically, building an image-building tool 09:07:56 that's also reusable as a loader for bringing up the project interactively in slime 09:08:17 so the same code is called both from the repl (interactive) and from --script (image builder) 09:08:30 Phoodus: have you tried buildapp? 09:08:54 *Phoodus* looks at it 09:09:17 of course, I need this done in not too long 09:09:30 and am "almost" there, barring issues like this popping up 09:09:47 I'm just trying to support "checkout and build", without having to tweak paths, but I don't think that's possible at the moment 09:10:33 abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 09:12:34 leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has joined #lisp 09:13:52 what's asdf2's equivalent of (push SOMEDIR asdf:*central-registry*)? 09:13:59 -!- Salamander__ is now known as Salamander 09:15:10 leo2007: asdf:*central-registry* semantics have not changed, as far as i know 09:15:30 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 09:15:31 Joreji [~thomas@67-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 09:16:09 but its doc-string says it is only for backward compatibility. I'd like to know if there's a new way ;) 09:16:22 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:16:47 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-230-24.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:17:15 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has quit [Quit: Eish!] 09:17:33 adeht: Thanks. I found the first post, but somehow failed to find the second. 09:18:01 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:18:36 dabr [~dabr@62-2-164-173.static.cablecom.ch] has joined #lisp 09:19:56 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-253-3.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:20:25 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:21:36 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:23:11 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-230-24.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:23:59 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-113-72.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:24:29 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 09:25:32 hlavaty [~user@77-22-100-178-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:28:24 longshot [~longshot@207.204.226.230] has joined #lisp 09:29:20 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@83.101.84.54] has quit [Ping 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[~Salamande@ppp118-210-238-217.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:54:23 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-150-46.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:54:33 ok that is new 09:54:37 -!- peterhogg is now known as jgballard 09:55:26 zomgbie [~jesus@chello212186106204.11.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 09:56:29 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:57:50 flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has joined #lisp 09:57:50 -!- flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has quit [Changing host] 09:57:50 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 09:59:56 H4ns````` [~user@pD4B9EBF2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:01:45 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn1-126.vpn.helsinki.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:02:25 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:03:41 -!- H4ns```` [~user@pD4B9E534.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:03:43 beach: might I inquire as to what Stamp's like? 10:03:59 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@152.105.51.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:03:59 beach: and, if you haven't checked out mutt yet, I'm finding it to be pretty nice. 10:05:24 can anyone point me to some new tutorials for hunchentoot ? 10:06:41 anything wrong with the old ones? 10:07:56 -!- Joreji [~thomas@67-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:08:59 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-149-32-186.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:09:00 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@chello212186106204.11.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:10:33 cmm, API changed 10:11:01 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:11:37 anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:13:06 petercoulton [~petercoul@152.105.51.87] has joined #lisp 10:13:18 leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has joined #lisp 10:13:25 I expect the documentation has changed accordingly 10:13:40 The tutorials seems to be written by third parties. 10:14:45 flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has joined #lisp 10:14:45 -!- flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has quit [Changing host] 10:14:45 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 10:16:55 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 10:18:16 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 10:19:32 yes, but it's highly unlikely that hunchentoot has changed so drastically as to make them completely useless 10:21:29 relcomp [~chatzilla@nat.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has joined #lisp 10:21:40 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:23:28 zomgbie [~jesus@chello212186106204.11.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 10:26:09 Jabberwockey [~jgrabarsk@85.22.93.138] has joined #lisp 10:26:15 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 10:30:38 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu252.queens.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:32:31 yakov__ [~yzaytsev@183.49.62.92.nienschanz.ru] has joined #lisp 10:32:33 the API changed quite a long time ago, it's not that hard to find tutorials that refer to current API 10:34:50 -!- abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:36:38 tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 10:36:38 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 10:36:58 tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 10:37:47 -!- yakov__ [~yzaytsev@183.49.62.92.nienschanz.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:39:11 freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn1-126.vpn.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 10:47:21 abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 10:48:00 -!- Intensity [Ry7IFY5JKH@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Quit: Intensity] 10:48:44 yakov__ [~yzaytsev@183.49.62.92.nienschanz.ru] has joined #lisp 10:50:38 -!- relcomp [~chatzilla@nat.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [SeaMonkey 2.0.9/20100930132633]] 10:51:34 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.105.166] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:52:03 Intensity [KYmbPu8ogS@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 10:55:31 how to test if a symbol names a generic function? 10:58:56 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:59:10 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@77.17.53.236.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:59:22 (typep (symbol-function 'foo) 'generic-function) 10:59:39 anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:59:47 tcr: thanks 11:01:53 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@152.105.51.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:02:44 petercoulton [~petercoul@152.105.51.87] has joined 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jgballar1 [~jgballard@host109-156-5-61.range109-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:28:50 -!- jgballar1 [~jgballard@host109-156-5-61.range109-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Client Quit] 11:29:12 jgballar1 [~jgballard@host109-156-5-61.range109-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:30:44 -!- jgballar1 [~jgballard@host109-156-5-61.range109-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Client Quit] 11:31:09 jgballar1 [~jgballard@host109-156-5-61.range109-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:31:38 dfox [~dfox@ip-84-42-201-24.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 11:34:02 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-135-201-12.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 11:37:12 hefner: btw, depending on timescale, I might get to work on the bytecoded CL for my degree coursework :-) 11:37:17 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.49.57] has joined #lisp 11:37:40 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:38:46 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping 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[~longshot@207.204.226.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:54:10 -!- longshot_ is now known as longshot 11:55:13 vroufe [~omx@ppp94-29-9-58.pppoe.spdop.ru] has joined #lisp 11:55:51 Yuuhi [benni@p5483C4C5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:57:21 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:57:21 is there any function which works like time command in shell ? 11:57:26 TheOm3ga [~jose@84.122.7.221.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 11:57:29 hi 11:57:37 I want to find out time taken by one of the function I wrote 11:57:40 clhs time 11:57:53 tcr, thanks, checking 11:57:55 in a loop from, is there any way of skipping one iteration? like continue; in c++ 11:58:17 TheOm3ga: in LOOP, or another iteration construct? 11:58:35 tcr, in loop or dotimes 11:58:38 I don't mind 11:58:50 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:59:24 dotimes has an implicit tagbody 11:59:28 you can put labels anywhere and go to them 11:59:34 sorry, go tags 11:59:36 TheOm3ga: All DO-foo macros expand to an implicit TAGBODY, so you can use (dotimes (i 10) (when (oddp i) (go :next-iteration)) :next-iteration) 12:00:03 TheOm3ga, how about using if? 12:00:20 ok, I'll give that tag a try 12:00:30 in case of LOOP you might have to rearrange your LOOP quite a bit 12:00:46 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@83.222.175.136] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:01:12 flip214, how would you use an if in this situation? 12:01:26 (loop for a in my-list 12:01:42 if (evenp a) 12:01:48 do (whatever)) 12:02:01 just skip the rest of the things that are to be done 12:02:06 ok 12:02:19 of course, it's not that easy if there are several clauses like collect, sum, etc 12:02:34 but for simple cases just don't do the loop "body" 12:03:29 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@152.105.51.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:03:41 -!- vroufe [~omx@ppp94-29-9-58.pppoe.spdop.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:04:43 but "if" does not allow me to run multiple sentences if the condition is true, just one 12:04:55 vroufe [~omx@ppp94-29-9-58.pppoe.spdop.ru] has joined #lisp 12:05:30 -!- smanek [~smanek@adsl-70-232-163-80.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:05:59 TheOm3ga: you can use either PROGN with IF, COND, or WHEN/UNLESS 12:06:13 cond is working for me 12:06:52 TheOm3ga, you silly little man with your cute side-effects. 12:07:13 wat 12:07:23 xD 12:08:53 Lajla: what side-effects? 12:09:45 is there a quick way of removing the nth element of a list? Or do I have to write the function manually? 12:11:19 TheOm3ga, I suppose you can combine take and drop 12:11:21 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-160-66.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:11:32 TheOm3ga: i think you would do it manually with nthcdr 12:11:35 Lajla: Go away. 12:11:52 you'll have to write the function yourself, or better yet, do whatever you're doing without using indices to access list 12:12:49 append+two subseqs 12:13:09 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-160-66.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:16:25 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-248.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:17:24 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:17:30 duuuuuuuude append + two subseq worked likke a charm 12:20:45 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-153-67.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 12:22:34 _nix00 [~Adium@58.33.106.62] has joined #lisp 12:24:19 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-135-201-12.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:24:51 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:26:16 -!- The_Fellow [~spider1@glida.mooo.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:27:41 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:27:43 TheOm3ga: (defun remove-nth (n seq) (remove-if (constantly t) seq :start n :end (1+ n))) 12:27:58 This should be faster in most cases. 12:28:38 The_Fellow [~spider1@glida.mooo.com] has joined #lisp 12:30:15 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-135-201-12.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 12:31:07 -!- Lajla [~Lajla@213-84-222-243.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #lisp 12:31:29 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-135-201-12.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Client Quit] 12:33:50 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 12:33:52 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:34:00 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 12:34:04 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:39:13 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@77.17.53.236.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 12:42:39 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:43:08 anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:43:24 Xach: what's the policy for quicklisp vs. systems that are implementation dependant? 12:44:09 And is there tools in quicklisp to find what systems are available for what implementation and vice versa? 12:46:38 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 12:47:43 xan_ [~xan@173-13-121-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 12:50:57 -!- kmwallio [~kmwallio@host113-70.brownlie.fit.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:51:11 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 12:54:34 longshot_ [~longshot@180.184.12.151] has joined #lisp 12:55:09 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:55:29 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:55:35 -!- longshot [~longshot@180.184.8.209] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:57:08 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:58:04 i compiled my cmucl with all iso8859 substituted with utf-8 in the code folder and recompiled, but docutils fails 12:58:04 with the same or similar error now, and gsll does not load too as before it fails with the *row-separator* variable 12:58:04 which is global in the package and already exported in foreign-array.lisp, i don't get it 12:58:19 -!- longshot_ is now known as longshot 12:58:39 it barfs with unbound symbols error, the variable *row-separator* is unbound....+# 12:58:42 ups 12:59:29 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:59:55 -!- TheOm3ga [~jose@84.122.7.221.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 13:00:58 it's a component variable not a package variable not ? 13:01:11 does it play a role ? 13:01:44 how it is exported through the package manager or just declared to be exported in the file itself ? 13:02:58 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:06:26 pjb: The policy is not firmly established yet. Some projects in there work on only one implementation. I would like, I think, to split those out into their own groups. 13:06:44 pjb: There are no current tools for that kind of discovery. I would like to add them. 13:15:45 anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:16:28 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:17:16 LinGmnZ [~isra.wic@27.130.184.23] has joined #lisp 13:17:29 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:18:52 homie: What do you mean by "compiled my cmucl with all iso8859 substituted with utf-8"? 13:19:25 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-183-22.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:19:31 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 13:19:47 rtoym: in the src/code folder of the cvs checkout i replaced all occurences with sed of iso8859 with utf-8 inline 13:19:47 (means in file) 13:20:01 then compiled it 13:20:23 and made a package, which i extracted to my /home/user/cmucl folder now 13:20:27 and got it up 13:20:37 That is totally the wrong way to go about it. I'm surprised it even worked. 13:20:39 ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 13:20:41 -!- spcshpopr8tr [~user@c-71-231-165-31.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:20:46 works 13:21:07 just does not solve any of the problems i encountered before with some packages 13:21:18 LiamH [~healy@129-2-135-218.wireless.umd.edu] has joined #lisp 13:21:20 they load without problems in sbcl though 13:21:31 so that's why i wonder why 13:22:32 chp [~chp@114.113.66.95] has joined #lisp 13:23:33 If you really want utf8 everywhere, I suggest this. Run lisp with -noinit -nositeinit. Then (setf *default-external-format* :utf-8) and (save-lisp "/path/utf8.core"). Then you can run lisp -core /path/utf8.core which will use utf8 by default. 13:23:53 ok 13:24:08 Or maybe even just lisp -eval '(setf *default-external-format* :utf-8)' 13:24:24 Or just initialize it in your .cmucl-init.lisp. 13:24:51 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-zorxkpglnzrauijk] has left #lisp 13:24:56 ok testing now 13:28:05 spcshpopr8tr [~user@c-71-231-165-31.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:28:37 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 13:29:15 Which approach are you testing? And what errors were you getting? The same kind as before in docutils latex.lisp? 13:30:47 yep i set my (set-system-external-format :utf-8) in my .cmucl-init and run lisp with -eval '(setf 13:30:47 *default-external-format* :utf-8) now and trying to load the docutils package and gsll in a few minutes 13:30:53 xinming [~hyy@218.73.131.85] has joined #lisp 13:31:31 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@77.17.53.236.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:31:32 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:31:53 If you have (set-system-external-format :utf-8) in cmucl-init, then you should just put (setf *default-external-format* :utf-8) in cmucl-init too. Then no need to specify -eval. 13:31:59 That's what I do. 13:33:53 i got the same error with docutils, after i rm'ed the cache for it and loaded it again 13:34:35 wait i'll try to dump a core and start with it too, just to be sure 13:36:43 ok dumped and loaded the core and am trying to load that package again 13:37:50 -!- vroufe [~omx@ppp94-29-9-58.pppoe.spdop.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:38:09 vroufe [~omx@ppp94-29-9-58.pppoe.spdop.ru] has joined #lisp 13:39:23 nope 13:39:27 the same error again 13:41:23 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-8-91.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:41:53 Forget about all the approaches you've tried. Just (setf *default-external-format* :utf-8) in cmucl-init. Start lisp and (require :docutils). That works for me. 13:41:58 -!- abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:42:07 Or are you trying to require :docutils in cmucl-init? 13:42:26 Joreji [~thomas@67-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:42:29 yes, with (ql:quickload :docutils) 13:43:12 Ok. Let me try that. But it worked when I just did (require :docutils) in cmucl-init yesterday. 13:43:30 ok try it, it maybe something with quicklisp too... 13:43:37 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:44:24 oh 13:45:07 i dumped the normal (my system lisp) with utf-8 settings and loaded it and ql:quickloaded :docutils, without errors now 13:45:16 heh 13:46:12 Ok, that works for me with setting *default-external-format* to :utf-8 and (ql:quickload :docutils) in cmucl-init. 13:46:23 Using default core. 13:46:38 hmmm, but gsll does not load 13:46:58 *row-separator* is unbound error 13:47:06 ok docutils is solved 13:47:11 -!- V-ille [~ville@70.42.89.16] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:47:13 i needed a utf-8 core 13:47:31 setting them alone in my .cmucl-init file was not sufficient for me 13:47:44 -!- Joreji [~thomas@67-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:47:52 Then you messed something up, because it works for me. 13:47:57 hmmmm 13:48:01 pavelludiq [~quassel@83.222.175.136] has joined #lisp 13:48:47 i just extracted the tarballs as they came 13:48:54 didn't do anything extra.... 13:49:06 so i can't think of what i would have messed with 13:49:22 13:49:26 Same here. Did you setf *default-external-format* before the quickload stuff? 13:49:36 jep 13:49:51 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu252.queens.ox.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:50:12 -!- vroufe [~omx@ppp94-29-9-58.pppoe.spdop.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:50:46 enupten [~neptune@117.254.156.147] has joined #lisp 13:51:03 I can't test gsll because I don't have gsl around. Don't you get any compiler notes/warnings about *row-separator* before you get the unbound error? 13:51:11 -!- Revolve [~hi@cpc4-bagu10-2-0-cust705.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:51:36 I was curious, why #2A and not #A for creating arrays ? 13:51:46 which is the best common lisp implementation for win32? clisp? 13:51:46 Why 2 ? 13:51:54 enupten: 2d 13:52:53 kral: The one that works best for you, of course! I hear ccl and sbcl are good. Ecl might work too. 13:54:11 rtoym: ty, I'm just learning lisp atm. I'll try sbcl, 'cause it's the one I use on my macbook. (but I use windows at work) 13:54:55 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 13:55:22 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-47.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 13:56:26 -!- [df] [~df@163.8.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:57:35 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:58:33 [df] [~df@163.8.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has joined #lisp 13:58:55 mrSpec [~Spec@D8-805-router.ket.agh.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 13:58:55 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@D8-805-router.ket.agh.edu.pl] has quit [Changing host] 13:58:55 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:58:58 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:00:43 Hun: So the difference between #2A and #4A is that in the former the penultimate elements are lists, but they are arrays in #4A ? 14:01:13 no. it's a single array, but it has N dimensions. 14:01:39 at least if you leave the funny cases (displaced arrays, fill pointers) out. 14:02:22 So aref will only work with "N" indices ? 14:02:26 yep 14:02:32 *subscripts 14:02:36 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:02:43 with something like `wrong number of subscripts, 1, for array of rank 3' 14:03:17 Can 14:04:22 rrice [~rrice@adsl-69-221-165-176.dsl.akrnoh.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 14:06:34 Hun: I've been enlightened, Thanks :) 14:06:38 :) 14:13:07 p_l|uni [~pl@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 14:14:15 -!- rrice [~rrice@adsl-69-221-165-176.dsl.akrnoh.ameritech.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:14:33 rrice [~rrice@adsl-69-221-165-176.dsl.akrnoh.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 14:15:22 -!- LinGmnZ [~isra.wic@27.130.184.23] has quit [] 14:15:52 rrice1 [~rrice@adsl-69-221-165-176.dsl.akrnoh.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 14:16:07 -!- rrice1 [~rrice@adsl-69-221-165-176.dsl.akrnoh.ameritech.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:16:11 -!- rrice [~rrice@adsl-69-221-165-176.dsl.akrnoh.ameritech.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:17:06 rrice [~rrice@adsl-69-221-165-176.dsl.akrnoh.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 14:17:37 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 14:19:55 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:22:11 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 14:22:27 LinGmnZ [~isra.wic@27.130.184.23] has joined #lisp 14:23:58 jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 14:24:32 -!- churib [~tg@dslb-088-071-150-055.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:24:58 muhdik [~IceChat7@parkmobile-usa.oneringnetworks.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:05 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-64-145.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 14:25:10 skaboy [~s0793114@ratz.inf.ed.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:25:19 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@58.33.106.62] has left #lisp 14:25:37 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has joined #lisp 14:25:39 V-ille [~ville@ville-hp.dhcp.fnal.gov] has joined #lisp 14:26:32 -!- LinGmnZ [~isra.wic@27.130.184.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:28:14 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:28:19 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 14:28:33 -!- LiamH [~healy@129-2-135-218.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:29:12 LinGmnZ [~isra.wic@27.130.184.23] has joined #lisp 14:30:46 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@167.80-203-136.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 14:31:06 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@83.222.175.136] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:31:17 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:32:05 Maou [~isra.wic@27.130.184.23] has joined #lisp 14:32:08 nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-164-95.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 14:32:43 osoleve [~andy@adsl-074-166-228-237.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:33:53 -!- LinGmnZ [~isra.wic@27.130.184.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:34:32 LinGmnZ [~isra.wic@27.130.184.23] has joined #lisp 14:36:23 -!- Maou [~isra.wic@27.130.184.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:36:23 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 14:38:48 rtoym: no i don't get any other errors before that row-separator thing 14:39:15 bandu [~coyotama@pool-71-164-234-131.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:39:37 rtoym: is cmucl threaded by default ? 14:39:44 -!- LinGmnZ [~isra.wic@27.130.184.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:40:00 rtoym: i mean built with thread support 14:40:09 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 14:40:13 Only on x86, and only supports green threads. No OS threads. 14:40:23 ah 14:40:45 Any warnings or other notes? 14:41:19 it's in the gsd, foreign-array component that row-separator thing 14:41:30 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:41:33 gsd package, which is a dependency of gsll 14:41:53 it does try to load that but than fails with the row-separator error 14:41:57 being unbound 14:42:08 *row-separator* 14:42:22 LinGmnZ [~isra.wic@27.130.184.23] has joined #lisp 14:42:25 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:42:50 that's the only error, nothing else shown 14:43:33 Well, that makes no sense. It's just (defvar *row-separater* '^) 14:43:50 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 14:44:19 and (export *row-separator*) 14:44:28 -!- yan__ is now known as yan_ 14:45:00 a5h15h [~a5h15h@59.95.56.233] has joined #lisp 14:45:08 Maou [~isra.wic@27.130.184.23] has joined #lisp 14:45:14 Oh. I wonder if that's supposed to be (export '*row-separator)? 14:45:39 maybe 14:45:52 If not, this could be an issue with cmucl and how it builds fasls coalescing top-level forms together. 14:46:05 -!- Quetzalcoatl_ [~godless@cpe-75-186-5-185.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:46:07 ok 14:46:36 -!- enupten [~neptune@117.254.156.147] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:47:05 -!- LinGmnZ [~isra.wic@27.130.184.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:47:11 LinGmnZ [~isra.wic@27.130.184.23] has joined #lisp 14:47:36 homie: Try this. In cmucl-init, add (setf c::top-level-lambda-max 0). Then try again. 14:47:59 ok, i'll try later rtoym, i'm away now 14:48:02 laters 14:49:16 -!- Maou [~isra.wic@27.130.184.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:49:37 Maou [~isra.wic@27.130.184.23] has joined #lisp 14:51:06 gz_ [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:51:23 -!- LinGmnZ [~isra.wic@27.130.184.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:51:43 -!- bigjust` [~bigjust@justin.caratzas.org] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 14:52:49 Saturnation [~dsouth@71.169.177.32] has joined #lisp 14:53:39 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl21-79-126.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 14:53:40 -!- Maou [~isra.wic@27.130.184.23] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:53:51 churib [~tg@dslb-088-071-150-055.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:55:17 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279442446.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: hugod] 14:56:04 xan__ [~xan@173-13-121-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:56:14 -!- gz_ [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has left #lisp 14:56:18 redsord7 [~khiempham@115.72.238.199] has joined #lisp 14:56:28 -!- a5h15h [~a5h15h@59.95.56.233] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 14:56:37 -!- xan_ [~xan@173-13-121-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:56:59 bigjust [~bigjust@justin.caratzas.org] has joined #lisp 14:57:49 petercoulton [~petercoul@152.105.51.87] has joined #lisp 15:01:03 -!- bigjust [~bigjust@justin.caratzas.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:01:21 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-153-67.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:02:15 Joreji [~thomas@67-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:03:23 Is cl-couch broken? I can't load it. Getting this: component :DEFCLASS-STAR not found. 15:04:56 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:05:11 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:05:54 leo2007: you're missing dependencies 15:06:14 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:07:10 -!- Joreji [~thomas@67-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:08:09 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:09:11 jdz: which one? 15:10:41 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:10:47 leo2007: the one that is not found? 15:10:51 TheEnd2012 [~TheEnd201@65.196.40.254] has joined #lisp 15:11:28 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:11:44 the one called defclass-star 15:12:17 jdz and dlowe: didn't realise it was a package name. 15:12:19 thanks. 15:13:01 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-158-125.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:14:16 netytan [~netytan@host81-141-55-131.wlms-broadband.com] has joined #lisp 15:14:24 -!- netytan [~netytan@host81-141-55-131.wlms-broadband.com] has quit [Client Quit] 15:15:18 leo2007: not a package! a madule. 15:15:21 module even 15:15:51 ok 15:16:09 kmwallio [~kmwallio@host113-70.brownlie.fit.edu] has joined #lisp 15:16:38 system! 15:16:39 not a module! a system! 15:18:27 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:19:01 dnm [~dnm@static-71-166-174-24.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:19:47 hefner_ [~hefner@ppp-58-9-182-132.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 15:19:47 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-182-132.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:19:48 -!- hefner_ is now known as hefner 15:19:52 -!- xan__ [~xan@173-13-121-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:22:21 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-106-77.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:22:44 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-106-77.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 15:23:18 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 15:23:31 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-ywurmpjhbcynxpaj] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:24:00 -!- longshot [~longshot@180.184.12.151] has quit [Quit: longshot] 15:24:43 -!- superflit [~superflit@c-24-9-162-197.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: superflit] 15:27:06 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 15:27:35 LinGmnZ [~isra.wic@27.130.184.23] has joined #lisp 15:28:29 -!- ramus [~ramus@99.23.139.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:29:10 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:29:15 Maou [~isra.wic@27.130.184.23] has joined #lisp 15:30:36 longshot [~longshot@180.184.12.151] has joined #lisp 15:31:56 -!- LinGmnZ [~isra.wic@27.130.184.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:32:12 -!- osoleve [~andy@adsl-074-166-228-237.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:32:38 LinGmnZ [~isra.wic@27.130.184.23] has joined #lisp 15:33:25 -!- Maou [~isra.wic@27.130.184.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:34:38 Maou [~isra.wic@27.130.184.23] has joined #lisp 15:34:51 Is there something that can dump a tags file, like ctags? One that takes all information known to Lisp, and so isn't easily confused by macros defining macros etc.? SBCL only would suffice for me. 15:35:09 why would you need it? 15:35:37 I'm one of the few people using vim for lisp developing ... 15:35:57 flip214: sb-introspect might help doing that, but i don't know if anyone's already done it. 15:36:01 You can write your own, isn't that hard 15:36:08 I got by by giving ctags some regexes - but that works only for me, and not general enough 15:36:35 I know that I can write my own ... but I try to abandon the NIH syndrom ;-) 15:36:38 ramus [~ramus@99.23.139.202] has joined #lisp 15:36:43 -!- LinGmnZ [~isra.wic@27.130.184.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:37:05 LinGmnZ [~isra.wic@27.130.184.23] has joined #lisp 15:37:08 Abandon vim in that case? 15:37:21 tcr: NO. ;-) 15:38:00 -!- syntard [~chatzilla@74.112.63.251] has left #lisp 15:38:12 Although I have to admit I'd been thinking about trying emacs a few times before ... but then I see other using it, and shudder. 15:38:29 why? (the shuddering part) 15:38:35 wear a coat 15:38:51 Bronsa [~bronsa@host242-182-dynamic.21-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:39:00 is it a duck troll? how can you know? 15:39:05 -!- Maou [~isra.wic@27.130.184.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:39:27 Maou [~isra.wic@27.130.184.23] has joined #lisp 15:39:33 kclifton [~kclifton@s198-166-45-245.ab.hsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 15:39:39 Well, the keystrokes for vim are so deeply ingrained in my brain that I don't have to think about them anymore ... and I believe that the emacs "shortcuts" are much longer (CTRL-X CTRL-X call_my_script args... or whatever) 15:39:58 But, as I said, I've got no real experience with emacs 15:40:03 Just a lot with vim 15:40:08 -!- syntard__ [~chatzilla@fl-74-4-76-189.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:40:16 emacs is a lisp system that happens to manifest an editor. 15:40:21 Well, slimv is being rewritten to use swank - then all should be better 15:40:23 Emacs has a vi mode. 15:40:24 this makes it nearly ideal for editing lisp 15:40:42 if you want to use vim, I wish you well, but that is not the path of least resistance. 15:40:43 rtoym: I tried using it when switching. It was pretty awful 15:40:48 fade: there are jokes about emacs being an OS needing just one essential part ... 15:41:00 dlowe: Oh. I never tried it. 15:41:16 rtoym: just enough mismatch to really screw with you 15:41:25 syntard [~chatzilla@204.51.92.251] has joined #lisp 15:41:26 was easier to take emacs on its own terms 15:41:29 -!- LinGmnZ [~isra.wic@27.130.184.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:41:30 C-h t works 15:41:37 well, if the vi mode is really a "vi" mode (as opposed to a "vim" 7.2 mode) I won't switch. 15:42:02 flip214: excellent. enjoy. 15:42:26 flip214: There's no problem with using vim, just use what you enjoy 15:42:34 fade: I expect that was irony. Thanks anyway. 15:42:47 I was being sincere. I wish you well. 15:42:59 enupten [~neptune@117.254.111.6] has joined #lisp 15:43:10 I think your lisping is going to be harder than it needs to be, but everybody has their preferences. 15:43:11 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 15:43:12 abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 15:43:30 -!- Maou [~isra.wic@27.130.184.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:45:21 fade: maybe there are some things that could be easier - but these I don't even know about now, so I don't miss them. 15:45:54 OTOH, re-learning a new editor would make me depressed, I believe. 15:48:33 -!- kmwallio [~kmwallio@host113-70.brownlie.fit.edu] has quit [Quit: I'll be back...] 15:49:21 p_l|uni [~pl@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 15:50:22 this is a vid tutorial about slime; it's old, but it covers the basics: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2140275496971874400# 15:51:31 Fade, if it's older than 2008 it will probably discuss limp instead of the newer slimv. But nonetheless thank you very much! 15:51:32 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn1-126.vpn.helsinki.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:51:32 there's a project to let vim plug in to swank 15:51:44 slimv is going that way 15:51:50 oh, that movie has nothing to do with vi[m] 15:51:54 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:52:03 it shows you why you'd want to use emacs/slime to write lisp code. 15:53:35 i don't know how evolved the swank/vim stuff is. 15:54:01 Fade: resolution sucks, I can't watch it 15:54:16 the original .mov file is lost. 15:54:20 *Fade* shrugs 15:54:25 don't watch it, then. :) 15:54:53 gor[e] [U2FsdGVkX1@79.165.187.105] has joined #lisp 15:55:04 ahh, I see, you're ironic again 15:56:31 http://www.amazingsuperpowers.com/comics/2009-07-27-Irony-Machine.png 15:56:40 osoleve [~sabayonus@adsl-074-166-228-237.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 15:57:45 dlowe: resolution sucks 15:58:10 -!- trigen [~MSX@87.209.144.213] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:58:13 hugod [~hugod@38.108.74.28] has joined #lisp 15:58:21 syntard: time to get new glasses? 15:58:40 hehe 15:59:22 Fade: lost? 15:59:28 minion: slime.mov? 15:59:28 slime.mov: "using SLIME" video by Marco Baringer, http://common-lisp.net/project/movies/movies/slime.mov 15:59:42 clhs string-equal 15:59:50 well, that's good. 15:59:59 all the google links are to a dead url. 16:00:12 google is just lost 16:00:20 flip21/syntard : ^^ 16:00:58 anyone else get annoyed at how google tries to automagically guess what you want based on physical location? 16:01:05 ahh, cool 16:01:52 stop googling, start gitting, last I heard 16:02:18 superflit [~superflit@140.226.49.160] has joined #lisp 16:02:56 drdo: it's not different when i'm on the couch or at the table 16:03:35 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@152.105.51.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:03:53 petercoulton [~petercoul@152.105.51.87] has joined #lisp 16:05:12 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:05:19 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:06:12 trigen [~MSX@87.209.144.213] has joined #lisp 16:06:22 -!- redsord7 [~khiempham@115.72.238.199] has left #lisp 16:13:42 -!- dabr [~dabr@62-2-164-173.static.cablecom.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:14:26 stassats: You should consider a career in comedy 16:14:43 -!- Jabberwockey [~jgrabarsk@85.22.93.138] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:16:32 badass back! 16:17:03 rtoym: i put what you said in my .cmucl-init and starting my lisp with the utf-8 enabled core now 16:17:59 beach [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-11-193.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:18:25 What is wrong with the people at Intel? I can't even find something as basic as the x86-64 manual on their website 16:18:31 Good evening everyone! 16:18:38 drdo: Try AMD. 16:18:39 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 16:18:58 drdo: i found them and copied over 16:19:10 don't know why you can't 16:19:29 homie: where are they then? 16:20:00 http://www.intel.com/products/processor/manuals/ 16:20:04 I'm pretty sure finding documentation for a commercial product shouldn't be like trying to solve a puzzle 16:20:34 homie: how did you get to that page from the main page? 16:20:59 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@152.105.51.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:21:09 i just put intel manuals into google then the first link 16:23:51 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7542da.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:24:39 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 16:24:55 rtoym: didn't help same error with gsll 16:25:24 rtoym: maybe i should dump again, with that setting and try again 16:25:25 fmu_ [u89@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cncielffrjwdgfzs] has joined #lisp 16:26:17 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@187.87.233.200] has joined #lisp 16:26:43 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@187.87.233.200] has left #lisp 16:27:17 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 16:27:19 _s1gma [~herpderp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 16:28:06 homie: What settings are you talking about? 16:28:28 rtoym: c::top-level-lambda 0 16:28:41 err c::top-level-lambda-max 0 16:30:30 Intel used to ship manuals for free.. I have a bunch. nowadays I think they only ship CDs 16:31:18 rtoym: nope even the core does not help 16:31:22 homie: Don't bother. Instead, wrap an eval-when around defvar *row-separator* 16:31:33 yates [~yates@nc-76-3-105-199.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:37 ok 16:31:39 will try 16:31:48 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 16:32:02 -!- chp [~chp@114.113.66.95] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:33:21 -!- Aisling [ash@blk-222-192-36.eastlink.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:34:00 Aisling [ash@blk-222-192-36.eastlink.ca] has joined #lisp 16:34:25 if i have a function, foo, that takes one argument, and i evaluate it like this: (foo bar), ... 16:34:33 homie: Easy enough to test. In some file, put (defvar *foo* '^) (export *foo*). I get an unbound var error. Put eval-when around the defvar, and the problem goes away. 16:34:39 then lisp will evaluate bar and pass its value to foo, right? 16:34:48 yates: Yes. 16:35:01 ok, good 16:35:15 right succeeded, confirm 16:35:56 yates: Lisp is no different from any other programming language this way. How come this is taking you so long to understand? 16:35:58 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:36:03 rtoym: is that a package error now or what is it then ? 16:36:41 homie: Don't know. I always get confused on compile-time, load-time issues. 16:37:13 ok 16:37:28 so if foo expects a function as its parameter, and then wants to evaluate that function inside the body, it must use funcall, right? 16:37:32 I'm sure someone here knows, though. :-) 16:37:33 beach: except for lazy evaluation 16:38:28 yates: Yes. Because (bar x) calls the function bar, not the value of the bar variable that you passed in. 16:38:29 yates: You are confusing evaluation and "calling functions". 16:38:34 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 16:39:39 if foo expects a function as its parameter, there is no point in evaluating it, because a function is a self-evaluating object in Lisp. You may want to call it though, and then you use funcall. 16:40:23 ok, then i should have said "...and then wants to call that function inside the body..." 16:40:31 right? 16:40:32 rread [~rread@c-24-130-52-79.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:40:53 minion: lisp-2 16:40:53 lisp-2: is at http://www.nhplace.com/kent/Papers/Technical-Issues.html 16:41:06 yates: That's right, and it is important to be precise about your terminology, or you will get the wrong answers to your questions and ultimately the wrong advice. 16:41:39 beach: i am trying 16:41:51 yates: I am trying to help you. 16:41:55 thank you 16:42:20 rtoym: that was for me, i take it? 16:42:47 Yes, but it might be a bit technical at this point. 16:42:52 -!- churib [~tg@dslb-088-071-150-055.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:44:08 yates: rtoym is trying to tell you that when Common Lisp encounters a compound form like (a b c) to be evaluated, then the a is not treated the same as the b and the c. If a turns out to be the name of a function *in the namespace of functions*, then b and c are evaluated normally and then the function is applied to the values. 16:44:19 as Ellie's father said, "baby steps..." 16:44:32 -!- enupten [~neptune@117.254.111.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:45:06 Nah, sink or swim!!!! 16:45:23 rtoym: that doesn't seem to work well with lisp... 16:45:31 i keep sinking.. 16:45:38 yates: So since a is not evaluated normally, you can't say (a b c) if a is a parameter of the function. In order to get a to evaluate normally, we use funcall, so that in (funcall a b c), a is now an argument to the funcall function, and thus no longer the first element of the compound form, and thus will be evaluated normally. 16:45:52 anyone know why a mesh collider would not show up in the editor camera? 16:46:03 beach: is a a symbol or not? 16:46:05 longshot: wrong channel. 16:46:14 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 16:46:15 yates: Yes, usually. 16:46:17 pkhuong_: I know :), ignore me 16:47:23 i sense some confusion on my part between "symbol" and "function namespace" - i would have said that CL takes the function slot of the symbol a and applies it to the evaluation of b and c 16:47:28 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 16:47:55 yates: That is sort of true, but things get complicated because of flet and labels. 16:48:20 fgump [~gauthamg@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 16:48:23 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:49:05 anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:49:38 ok, well i'll take the simplified view for now, knowing there are additional complexities to be learned... 16:49:40 beach: why do flet and labels complicate things? 16:49:59 is there some page that describes both closures and local functions in lisp programming? it seems that there have been some newbies lately coming here for "classes" about these 16:50:07 syntard: do they simplify? 16:50:09 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 16:50:12 syntard: Because you can no longer think of a single "function slot" of a symbol. 16:50:13 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:50:39 anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:51:29 stassats: i think labels let's us avoid using Y 16:51:35 lets 16:51:49 syntard: (defun ff (x) (1+ x)) then (flet ((ff (x) (1- x))) (list (ff 10) (funcall 'ff 10))) should give you a hint. 16:52:25 you need to understand the concept of lexical environment 16:52:36 beach: well, yeah I tried something like this yesterday 16:52:44 beach: this seems like what Zhivago may have been getting at last night 16:52:51 -!- kral [~kral@93.185.125.210] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 16:53:17 From my perspective, flet and labels are there for convenience 16:53:55 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-36-123.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:53:58 adeht: is "lexical environment" == "environment"? 16:54:15 "An environment is the set of all bindings in existence at some given time." 16:54:33 -!- TheEnd2012 [~TheEnd201@65.196.40.254] has left #lisp 16:54:49 wedgeV [~wedge@64.241.37.140] has joined #lisp 16:55:22 -!- Guthur [c0c1f510@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.193.245.16] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:55:28 syntard: Sure, all constructs of programming langauge are there for convenience. 16:55:33 yates: no.. it is a kind of environment 16:56:40 yates: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/03_aa.htm 16:57:01 ah. 16:57:03 yates: Whenever you encounter a term like that, rather than guessing or asking, go look at the glossary first. You might be surprised as to how well written and precise it is. 16:59:21 LinGmnZ [~isra.wic@27.130.184.23] has joined #lisp 16:59:33 yates: read this section and you should be able to finally understand everything you've been asking us about 16:59:45 adeht: ok, i am now 16:59:48 taylanub [~taylanub@p4FD95572.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:00:12 Maou [~isra.wic@27.130.184.23] has joined #lisp 17:00:21 it is very nice to have a hyper-linked glossary! 17:00:32 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:00:40 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:01:50 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-84-42-201-24.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:02:17 *mvilleneuve* wonders about implementing LOOP 17:02:49 mvilleneuve: Still at work? SICL has a good start. Do you have any questions? 17:03:28 -!- LinGmnZ [~isra.wic@27.130.184.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:03:35 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:03:35 LinGmnZ [~isra.wic@27.130.184.23] has joined #lisp 17:04:43 beach: actually, I may be blocked quite early: I'm not sure TAGBODY can be translated into Java code 17:04:50 -!- Maou [~isra.wic@27.130.184.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:04:57 ace4016 [~ace4016@adsl-33-40-124.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 17:05:08 mvilleneuve: That might very well be true. 17:05:18 Maou [~isra.wic@27.130.184.23] has joined #lisp 17:05:37 mvilleneuve: Well, you probably *can*, but it would look quite artificial. 17:05:50 -!- trigen [~MSX@87.209.144.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:06:26 beach: looking artificial shouldn't be too much of a problem... are you thinking about labels? 17:06:50 vroufe [~omx@194.186.220.36] has joined #lisp 17:06:51 Is there any way to get tab completion in my lisp buffer, and not just the repl? 17:06:54 mvilleneuve: I don't know enough Java to tell, but there is a goto right? 17:07:03 seangrove: C-c C-i 17:07:15 Ah, I see 17:07:18 java has no goto 17:07:25 C-i would be a conflict 17:07:27 Thanks beach 17:07:30 stassats: Ah, darn! 17:07:47 beach: there are 'break' and 'continue' which accept a label argument, but there seems to be hard restrictions on where to put those labels 17:07:50 -!- LinGmnZ [~isra.wic@27.130.184.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:08:02 I'll have to look at that a bit more 17:08:06 mvilleneuve: Yes, I see. 17:08:16 mvilleneuve: exceptions are another venue 17:08:29 LinGmnZ [~isra.wic@27.130.184.23] has joined #lisp 17:08:40 mvilleneuve: you can choose which exception to catch 17:08:47 syntard: That's what I meant by "artificial". 17:09:11 beach: java deserves it 17:09:24 syntard: Could be, yeah. 17:09:41 -!- Maou [~isra.wic@27.130.184.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:09:41 trigen [~MSX@87.209.144.213] has joined #lisp 17:10:03 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 17:10:19 stassats: does jvm have goto? 17:10:24 Maou [~isra.wic@27.130.184.23] has joined #lisp 17:10:27 <_3b> would a case or switch or whatever it is with an entry for each tag, inside a loop be enough? 17:10:37 hmm... I have no idea how exceptions "work" in Java, or if they are expensive in terms of cpu or whatever 17:11:13 _3b: That would probably be an alternative. 17:11:14 how about something like bool label1 = true, label2 = false, endlabel = false; while (!endlabel) { while (1) { if (label1) { code for label1.. go to label2: label1 = false; label2 = true; break; } if (label2) { ... }}} 17:11:19 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 17:11:45 I just invented this contortion, but it may work! 17:12:22 it may indeed, as well as _3b's suggestion 17:12:30 -!- LinGmnZ [~isra.wic@27.130.184.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:12:42 thanks! I'll look into this and let you know 17:12:50 adeht: nice! I overcomplicated it 17:13:24 wedgeV_ [~wedge@static-64-61-84-72.isp.broadviewnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:31 LinGmnZ [~isra.wic@27.130.184.23] has joined #lisp 17:13:35 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 17:14:35 3b: yes, actually that should work too.. classic fsm approach 17:15:01 -!- Maou [~isra.wic@27.130.184.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:15:12 -!- hugod [~hugod@38.108.74.28] has quit [Quit: hugod] 17:15:43 Maou [~isra.wic@27.130.184.23] has joined #lisp 17:15:55 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@chello212186106204.11.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:16:08 yes, I should have thought of something like that... 17:16:14 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@64.241.37.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:16:17 -!- wedgeV_ is now known as wedgeV 17:16:23 you still need to handle non-local gotos. 17:16:56 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 17:17:19 pkhuong_: dynamicaly bound? 17:17:31 man. hyperspec + w3m.el == w1n 17:17:40 I dunno why I didn't do that sooner. 17:17:50 pkhuong: but that's no longer tagbody, is it? 17:17:56 -!- LinGmnZ [~isra.wic@27.130.184.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:18:10 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:18:16 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@178-73-208-50.cust.vpntunnel.org] has joined #lisp 17:18:28 sure is. 17:18:46 oh right 17:18:50 -!- benny [~benny@i577A7B60.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:18:55 (tagbody foo (tagbody (go foo))) is permissible 17:20:50 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-18-239.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:21:03 *syntard* thinks exceptions can handle non-locals 17:21:38 anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:22:35 <_3b> oh yeah, those are annoying... i think i used exceptions for that sort of thing too 17:22:38 gonzojive1 [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:23:34 younder [~jthing@124.202.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 17:24:07 -!- gonzojive1 [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 17:24:09 gonzojive1 [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:24:41 isn't it just a matter of special-casing the toplevel tagbody and assigning different names to inner tagbody labels? 17:25:25 that's what I was thinking, I'll have to check that it works 17:25:38 adeht: tagbody labels have regular lexical extent. 17:25:43 I can GO out of a local function. 17:25:53 <_3b> yeah, closures is what i was thinking of 17:26:01 time to go, thanks all! 17:26:20 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:26:31 <_3b> then throw in some recursion for extra fun, and make sure you go to the right one 17:26:35 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #lisp 17:26:47 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:27:05 *_3b* doesn't remember which issues specifically go with wich of tagbodies, blocks and throw, just that they were a hassle to get right 17:27:53 seangrov` [~user@c-71-198-44-87.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:28:14 I think I just converted everything to catch/throw and tail calls. 17:29:01 pkhuong: ok, makes sense 17:29:08 <_3b> yeah, just need to make sure you throw the right thing when you enter the same scope multiple times 17:29:32 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-160-66.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:29:58 _3b: converting block/return from to catch/throw isn't hard. 17:30:13 wbooze` [~user@xdsl-87-79-41-222.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:30:13 homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-41-222.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:30:14 am i totally wrong here or should a class inherit slot accessor methods from its direct superclass? 17:30:46 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:30:54 guaqua: that doesn't really make sense; methods don't belong to classes in CLOS. 17:31:12 that's true 17:31:14 anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:31:30 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.49.57] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:31:49 but the question (although it might have to be rephrased) still stands 17:31:50 <_3b> pkhuong_: yeah, but you actually know what you are doing :) 17:32:28 17:32:44 should reread the LiSP chapter 17:32:45 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-160-66.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:33:15 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-41-222.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 17:33:30 -!- wbooze` [~user@xdsl-87-79-41-222.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 17:33:44 guaqua: Perhaps you have an example in mind that's confusing to you? 17:35:14 well, i have a class that has one superclass 17:35:43 You can paste an example to the pastebot. 17:36:06 http://paste.lisp.org/ 17:36:09 and when i try to call the slot-accessor method that is defined in the superclass with the subclass as the argument, i get "no applicable method for this generic function" 17:37:05 "in the superclass" as in defined in the defclass form 17:37:41 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:38:22 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@static-64-61-84-72.isp.broadviewnet.net] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 17:39:10 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:40:00 Paste a simple example so we can see the code ... you're likely just doing something wrong. 17:40:09 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-41-222.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:40:54 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Boogie.] 17:43:32 -!- vroufe [~omx@194.186.220.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:44:55 Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 17:45:19 interesting 17:45:25 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-41-222.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:45:32 the small example i fabricated works differently... :) 17:45:43 masika [~opera@95.38.43.69] has joined #lisp 17:45:54 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 17:46:34 Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050067124.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:47:39 ikki [~ikki@201.122.132.181] has joined #lisp 17:47:52 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279442446.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 17:47:56 pkhuong_: the accessor functions (and readers and writers) are done in a way that makes them feel like more conventional OO languages where the methods /do/ belong to classes... 17:48:14 The syntax gives them that "look and feel"... 17:48:55 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7542da.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:51:02 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 17:51:23 my problem was with last returning a cons cell instead of the car of the last cons cell in a list 17:51:49 and then calling that generic function with a list rather than an instance of that subclass 17:52:23 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:52:37 oh very hard english they talk 17:52:48 lc0180643 [~lc@41.35.198.186] has joined #lisp 17:54:21 Hello, if I was going to learn lisp and I have access to two books and they seem really fun and fine to learn from (land of lisp) ( common lisp gentle introduction) 17:54:34 -!- Hun [~Hun@80.81.19.29] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:55:03 -!- acieroid` is now known as acieroid 17:55:06 guys which one should I go with from your point of view 17:55:06 if that's true, then hello 17:55:08 Wait, land of lisp is actually out? O_o 17:56:05 If you have other programming experience, have you considered Practical Common Lisp as well? 17:56:32 nyef: I have no prior experience in any programming what so ever 17:56:37 Odin-: yes it is 17:57:12 -!- seangrov` [~user@c-71-198-44-87.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:57:16 -!- seangrove [~user@c-71-198-44-87.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:58:21 lc0180643: gentle intro is free, so get both 17:58:39 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-41-222.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:59:51 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-41-222.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:00:12 syntard: that won't be a proplem cause I have access to both, my proplem is the are both over 500 pages 18:00:24 so which one to start with is what I am asking :D 18:00:27 urandom__ [~user@p548A7216.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:02:04 lc0180643: I expect that depends on your style. 18:02:35 lc0180643: choose, wrong or right, you'll learn something 18:02:48 lc0180643: Try both. If you find one too difficult, stick to the other for now, and then go back to the one more difficult later on. 18:03:24 syntard, symbole cool idea 18:03:25 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-41-222.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 18:03:51 -!- Saturnation [~dsouth@71.169.177.32] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 18:04:13 Land of lisp seems pretty nice to read, while I was here a while ago some of you guys suggested (common lisp gentle introduction) for starts 18:04:18 any way, thanks all 18:04:56 i think one book is not enough, either way... 18:05:31 homie: in general or just for this situation only? 18:05:34 lc0180643: if you want to learn lisp you're going to go through a lot more than 2 books and read a few orders of magnitude more than 500 pages, so just start with one. 18:05:43 lc0180643: in general 18:05:59 tsuru: gotcha 18:06:03 loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.179] has joined #lisp 18:06:11 lc0180643: Programming is hard. 18:06:17 jdz [~jdz@host202-105-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:06:37 -!- masika [~opera@95.38.43.69] has left #lisp 18:06:49 lc0180643: give up while you're ahead 18:06:51 symbole: thank you for letting me know :D 18:06:54 land of lisp is a lot of fun, but gentle has a more academic focus which makes it and excellent first book 18:06:56 zophy [~zophy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 18:06:57 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-41-222.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:06:58 :D 18:07:19 Walt [~Walt@c-4f66702b-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 18:07:21 drewc: I felt it a little dry, that's why I am here asking 18:07:29 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:07:36 I meant "gentle" 18:08:05 anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:08:16 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:08:20 vroufe [~omx@194.186.220.36] has joined #lisp 18:08:20 well, compared to land of lisp it certainly is, but what gentle teaches is extremely valuable, and you're going to want to read it and go through the excercises at some point. 18:08:46 anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:08:48 especially those that don't involve the computer :) 18:08:54 eheh, spawn fails with cmu 18:08:57 i mean slime 18:09:13 it switches to sigio mode 18:09:17 then it connect, else not 18:09:24 edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 18:09:42 drewc: so I can start with land along with Gentle or that would be a horrible Idea? 18:09:54 -!- osoleve [~sabayonus@adsl-074-166-228-237.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:09:56 kmwallio [~kmwallio@host113-70.brownlie.fit.edu] has joined #lisp 18:10:08 syntard and symbole already suggested hoping between them If I felt the need to 18:10:22 I am writing a small framework in C that will have a small performance and memory footprint. most 18:10:23 yeah, and grab a few more while you're at it :) 18:10:36 let me start over :( 18:10:46 Walt: ecl 18:11:14 drewc, ah, ok. I looked at it, I figured it was the coice 18:11:16 choice* 18:11:40 drewc, does it have a small memory and performance footprint? Or is there another implementation that could be more suitable? 18:12:13 I want to be able to run it on embedded devices 18:12:23 Walt: another language might work better. Lua, for instance. 18:12:34 Walt: if you don't want a full common lisp, there are smaller lisps available, and i don't see why you would want a common lisp embedded 18:12:46 Walt: forth 18:12:48 pkhuong_, I actually have an implementation currently using lua. But I want to explore the possibility of using lisp 18:13:06 -!- Maou [~isra.wic@27.130.184.23] has quit [] 18:13:12 lc0180643: one of the benefits of having different texts is that if you are having trouble understanding the explaination that one gives, you can find the similar section of the other text and see if its explaination offers further illumination. 18:13:18 picolisp, lisp500, i'm sure there's a suitable scheme.. it depends on what your needs are really 18:14:05 -!- karbak [~akr@kar.vps.bitfolk.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:14:33 karbak [~akr@kar.vps.bitfolk.com] has joined #lisp 18:15:55 -!- vroufe [~omx@194.186.220.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:16:07 tsuru: thanks 18:16:21 hmmm, slime stays on :spawn mode with sbcl, but fails the first time to load too 18:16:55 and :sigio mode with cmu, just blocks the interpreter totally, i can't even type RET there 18:17:17 but slime's own repl is responsive 18:17:35 drewc, thanks, I'll look into them 18:17:52 whereas :spawn mode accepts RET on interpreter with sbcl and i get a new prompt 18:18:38 or some scheme implementation. 18:18:39 -!- lc0180643 [~lc@41.35.198.186] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:19:10 and i can connect to the same slime process when i start out with sbcl, and afterwards start slime for cmu, but not 18:19:10 vice versa 18:19:44 *nyef* tries to remember if he's /ever/ done an exercise from a lisp book... 18:23:56 -!- hlavaty [~user@77-22-100-178-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:26:33 Joreji [~thomas@67-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:28:24 seangrove [~user@c-71-198-44-87.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:37 nyef: i think the only times i made a real effort to do the exercises in a book were the pencil and paper ones in gentle, and the pencil and paper ones in Knuth 18:30:41 ... Wasn't one of the earlier exercises in Knuth essentially "Prove Fermat's last theorem"? 18:31:42 it has a couple of those. 18:32:46 he mentions something along the lines of putting them in there just in case someone finds them easy. 18:32:58 apparently, someone took it seriously! 18:33:29 How can I define the 404 behavior of hunchentoot? 18:33:33 I can't find this anywhere 18:34:06 seangrove: one way is to add a handler that always returns, add it last in the list of handlers. 18:34:18 not a handler, but a dispatcher 18:34:45 Ah, that makes sense 18:35:10 -!- zophy [~zophy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:35:26 Is that the normal way? 18:35:31 Don't know. 18:38:24 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:38:56 -!- gozek [~quassel@85.52.166.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:40:53 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:41:18 -!- trigen [~MSX@87.209.144.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:41:38 anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:41:41 gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:44:13 joe4 [~joe@c-24-126-150-146.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:12 enupten [~neptune@117.254.158.211] has joined #lisp 18:46:14 And if I just want to serve a static file in that handler, say public/404.html? 18:47:11 trigen [~MSX@87.209.144.213] has joined #lisp 18:48:40 seangrove: have it return that file as a string, and set the http response code appropriately. 18:48:49 what do you guys think of SICP videos? 18:49:14 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-18-239.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:49:23 seangrove: you could add logic for updating that string if the file timestamp has changed. 18:52:25 zophy [~zophy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 18:53:04 a quick look at the hunchentoot source code suggests hunchentoot:*http-error-handler* may be interesting to you 18:54:29 gozek [~quassel@85.52.166.111] has joined #lisp 18:57:33 redline6561 [~redline@gate-30.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 18:59:56 -!- zophy [~zophy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:05:26 -!- Joreji [~thomas@67-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:10:43 vroufe [~omx@194.186.220.36] has joined #lisp 19:12:05 -!- joe4 [~joe@c-24-126-150-146.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:17:40 in loop() is there a way to skip the rest of the body and goto the next iteration such as the "continue" in java? 19:20:06 johanbev_: I don't believe so (someone may correct me). You /can/ get this with ITERATE, though. 19:20:07 http://www.ai.mit.edu/projects/iiip/doc/CommonLISP/HyperSpec/Body/locmac_loop-finish.html#loop-finish 19:20:44 homie: I thought that was like 'break', not 'continue'.... 19:20:47 what body? maybe you just want a DO clause such as do (block foo ... (return-from foo) ...) 19:20:58 so the backstory 19:21:13 im having a somewhat big loop 19:21:20 with a lot of sequential computation 19:21:22 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.49.57] has joined #lisp 19:21:28 adeht: ouch. That's almost an argument for ITERATE right there! ;-) 19:21:29 represented as for foo = (bar ... 19:21:38 for baaz = (quuz foo 19:21:39 etc 19:21:57 and if one of these computations fails i just want to skip the rest of them 19:22:24 http://common-lisp.net/project/iterate/ 19:23:03 http://common-lisp.net/project/iterate/doc/Control-Flow.html#Control-Flow 19:23:09 great :) 19:23:10 johanbev: this is too vague.. e.g., what do you mean by "fail" 19:23:16 return nil 19:23:21 see NEXT-ITERATION 19:23:34 -!- vroufe [~omx@194.186.220.36] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:23:40 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 19:24:01 something like "for foo = (bar ...) unless foo next-iteration 19:24:11 vroufe [~omx@194.186.220.36] has joined #lisp 19:24:27 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-119-127.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has left #lisp 19:24:27 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host242-182-dynamic.21-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:24:32 johanbev_: (loop for foo = (bar ...) when foo do (return foo)) 19:24:40 -!- skaboy [~s0793114@ratz.inf.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: My damn controlling terminal disappeared!] 19:24:43 Bronsa [~bronsa@host242-182-dynamic.21-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:24:50 -!- enupten [~neptune@117.254.158.211] has quit [Quit: quitting...] 19:25:02 when foo return it 19:25:03 johanbev_: (loop for foo = (bar ...) while foo) 19:25:06 kinda, but i have several sequential for-clauses 19:25:16 and i dont want to exit the whole loop 19:25:36 just skip further computation in that iteration 19:25:50 silenius [~silenus@rrcs-64-183-24-38.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:25:55 maybe you want loop ... do (prog* 19:26:04 but i think iterate it is 19:26:10 -!- loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.179] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:26:33 heh. big hammer for such a small nail 19:27:05 yeah, thats the dilemma 19:27:31 ofc. but i want to stick to the loop/iterate-syntax as long as i can 19:27:44 (loop for foo = (when still-fooing-p (bar ...))) 19:27:45 really helps the readability of these funs 19:28:03 annoying to add that to the rest of the 10 for-clauses though 19:28:13 johanbev: it may be that your code could be factored in a better way 19:28:28 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/06_aaec.htm 19:28:31 johanbev_: it's kind of a strange logical thing you're wanting to do in a single form 19:28:36 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/06_ad.htm 19:28:55 could be ofc. but the problem is a bit rep 19:29:02 ahem 19:29:17 ill see if i can refactor a bit, maybe its macro time anyhow 19:29:20 thanks guys :) 19:30:37 the always test clause maybe 19:30:46 err construct 19:31:32 johanbev_: We adopted ITERATE, and I can't tell you how much happier it makes us. 19:31:35 -!- cmeow [cmeow@happy.happy.vhost.shellium.org] has quit [Quit: Meow, meOUT!] 19:32:24 The conditional construct in LOOP is just plain nasty, LOOP doesn't play well with multiple values, and iterate is just more lispy. Best, if you have a lot of experience with LOOP, it carries over pretty directly. 19:32:24 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 19:32:59 yeah, it could very well be iterate-time now 19:33:32 -!- vroufe [~omx@194.186.220.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:33:32 Note though that you can still have issues if you want to abort in the middle of computing values for the iteration variables. I don't think anyone's got a great solution to that. 19:34:14 no, it is kinda ugly. I think the more general pattern im using is using loop as a pipe for sequential calculation through for clauses 19:34:30 -!- jdz [~jdz@host202-105-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:34:42 and then doing or collecting etc. on the last one 19:35:03 I think most of my uses of LOOP pretty much boil down to "I need sequential number generation but don't want to cons up a storm for it" 19:35:24 so what i really want is a nice way to exit the pipe should the need arise 19:35:33 map/reduce/remove-if(-not) are quite nice. 19:35:49 specially when combined with alexandria:curry/rcurry 19:35:59 srolls [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 19:36:54 especially when not combined with anything 19:40:56 trying iter example (iter (for i from 1 to 10) 19:40:58 (collect i)) 19:41:01 sykopomp: (defun xrange (from to) (let ((num from)) (lambda () (when (< num to) (prog1 num (incf num)))))) 19:41:09 get unbound variable: I 19:42:03 sykopomp: no need to use loop 19:42:41 dlowe: and how do I pass that to map? :) 19:42:47 never mind, improper usage 19:43:03 sykopomp: well, you make a map-lambda, of course. And then before you know it, you've implemented SERIES 19:43:03 oh, I guess I could include it in the mapping function. 19:43:39 sykopomp: nah, because map needs to know when to stop 19:43:52 indeed... 19:44:10 in your case it should stop when the function returns nil 19:44:21 syntard: isn't that supposed to be COLLECTING ? 19:44:38 rpg: no, it works 19:44:39 ranges as sequences would be nice. 19:44:40 rpg: collect should work fine 19:44:59 Maybe I was thinking of APPENDING... 19:45:07 rpg: right 19:45:07 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:45:38 anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:45:46 wow. Is it just me, or does USE-ing ITERATE in COMMON-LISP-USER turn out really unpleasant? 19:46:05 *rpg* wasn't trying that in a clean CL... 19:46:09 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-71-198-7-84.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 19:46:35 Edward__ [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-35-171.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:46:42 I should write a series clone that doesn't try all the rewriting insanity that the canonical series package does 19:47:28 rpg: that was the reason for my troubles 19:47:32 dlowe: I got such a pounding from my co-workers when I used SERIES in a system of mine; I'll never do that again.... 19:47:52 rpg: which part didn't they like? 19:48:06 syntard: I work with a system built by someone who likes all his code in CL-USER.... We don't use ITERATE there.... 19:48:17 dlowe: they just found it hard to read. 19:48:51 *syntard* will start using play package for repl play 19:48:52 dlowe: FSVO "just". As in "I'll kill you if you make me read this stuff again." 19:48:53 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:49:05 rpg: hm. that's too bad. 19:49:24 dlowe: Actually, to be fair, I couldn't really read it myself when I came back to it 6 months later. 19:49:35 -!- drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:50:01 the SERIES package does force you into some fairly strange stuff because of its optimization warnings. 19:50:02 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:50:05 I always come back to Riesbeck's advice when these issues come up 19:50:08 Although I thought it was dead sexy when I wrote it. 19:50:12 hm 19:50:25 I don't recall how debuggable it was, either. 19:50:45 I haven't tried to make anything major using only series, I must admit 19:51:05 It sure seems like it would be dead sexy... 19:51:23 I'm a big fan of multiple values, hence once I got started with ITERATE I came to really love it. 19:51:48 Also, the fact that anything beyond the most trivial IF is nasty in loop. 19:52:12 I got sick of reading people's (loop for x in foo do (let (( ...)) (cond ...) ...) 19:52:51 heh. (loop for x in foo as y = (cond ...)) 19:52:56 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-092-131.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 19:53:29 People who haven't spent as many years with loop as I have ended up using it just for its drivers and then putting the whole body inside a big DO. If you're going to do that, ITERATE is a lot better! 19:54:56 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@cpe-98-149-169-47.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:55:22 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:55:36 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 19:57:12 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 19:58:17 rpg: let them read http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/329b289439393d16 19:59:02 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:00:33 adeht: that's a fine strawman. But when you end up needing to take into account complex context (i.e., INSTANCES) isn't enough of an arglist, there's the "big function" versus "huge arglist" issue... 20:01:55 And there's the "do I cons my face off" issue, too. I mean, I agree with Riesbeck in the abstract, but sometimes when the code has to actually get written.... 20:02:10 rpg: my experience tells me it's not a strawman at all. I try to apply that rule when writing all my software. if you have a huge arglist, then you're in violation of that rule or in need of a better abstraction 20:02:27 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-18-239.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:02:29 passing closures can help a lot with a big arglist 20:03:07 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 20:03:20 gonzojive [~red@171.66.94.58] has joined #lisp 20:03:40 rpg: when consing actually matters, a couple macros have given me both series-style code and performance, without the headaches. 20:04:06 I guess it's a special case, in that each traversal was over vectors of a couple thousand values. 20:05:14 pkhuong_: Agreed. I find myself more and more dealing with iterations over collections big enough that blithe use of REDUCE or APPEND can kill me. Macros are very handy for making generators in code that's readable. 20:05:18 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 20:05:22 no, macros can eliminate much run time computation 20:06:10 cl-ppcre is a good example 20:07:01 it's a bit of a low-hanging fruit thing, I think: we're now working with collections large enough that getting individual traversals right is as important as, if not more than, fusing pipelines. 20:08:29 -!- Edward__ [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-35-171.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:08:49 fusing pipelines? have you read 'the art of concurrent programming' pkhuong_ ? 20:08:52 quack [~quack@bl15-125-168.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 20:09:53 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:11:13 pkhuong_: Yes, that's my experience, too. We have very large collections and need to do the lazy equivalent of REMOVE-IF-NOT in our traversals. ISTR that SERIES didn't do that terribly well across DEFUN boundaries (because of being a macro). 20:12:04 so you still use single core approaches? 20:13:00 younder: this stuff is not obviously parallelizable. 20:13:28 Does anyone know why sb-headdump was never integrated into sbcl? 20:13:53 because no one wanted to? 20:14:02 quack: my impression is that it required ongoing maintenance to continue working 20:14:07 quack: it wasn't quite finished, and now it's bit rotted away. 20:14:38 rpg: right. Still recomend 'The art of concurrent programming' since it adresses how to deal with code that isn't 'obviously' paralizable. 20:14:56 younder: cl-ppcre mostly uses load-time-value and chained lambdas to manage its speed, less so with macros 20:14:57 rpg: do you have a couple use cases? 20:15:09 *stassats* was able to make it partially working again a year ago, but some bugs due to internal changes were hard to diagnose 20:15:15 pkhuong_: Of long, filtered traversals? 20:15:29 well, something benchmarketable. 20:15:29 Xach, pkhuong_: Thanks for the answers. Is there a any package with similar functionality? 20:15:44 rpg: sorry s/concurrent/multiprocessor/ 20:16:15 dlowe, closures. in lisp terms 20:16:32 younder: a specific use of closures 20:16:49 pkhuong_: Not really. A recent case is in our security work (ILC 2009 paper), where we need to find network sensor reports that match an incoming report. Match is done by means of IP address match. 20:17:00 -!- sigjuice [~sigjuice@c-24-130-52-60.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:17:02 minion: cl-store? 20:17:03 cl-store: cl-store is an asdf-installable portable library for serializing and deserializing Common Lisp objects to and from streams. http://www.cliki.net/cl-store 20:17:16 quack: but it doesn't serialize closures 20:17:16 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@178-73-208-50.cust.vpntunnel.org] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 20:17:28 We iterate over reports that are indexed on IP addresses and some other features.... 20:18:38 So there's some funky indexing that lets us iterate over only a sub-range of IP addresses, but even that would give us large collections, so we filter as we traverse, rather than collecting then filtering the collections. 20:18:54 pkhuong_: No easy way to rip that stuff out of its context. 20:18:57 k. 20:19:29 -!- murilasso [~murilasso@189.103.20.140] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:19:45 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 20:19:51 p_l|uni [~pl@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:19:52 adeht: thanks for the link 20:19:57 pkhuong_: I don't know what your benchmark interest is, but I recall trying to use the AT&T-developed CLASSIC object (description logic) database. This had a bunch of cases where stuff is kept in lists. 20:20:07 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:20:09 It would fall over really badly once it had O(10K) objects in it. 20:20:46 It's open source CL, so if you want an experimental platform, might be a good test case. 20:20:56 milanj [~milanj_@93-87-180-228.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 20:21:02 theom3ga [~jose@ucaip181.uca.es] has joined #lisp 20:21:05 rpg: I've got some code that works well for my very own goal, but I think the pattern could be generalised to cover a niche like series's, but without the hair. 20:21:10 hi 20:21:15 pierrep [~ppasteau@dyn-218-085.wireless.concordia.ca] has joined #lisp 20:23:09 pkhuong_: that's my idea 20:23:19 sigjuice [~sigjuice@c-24-130-52-60.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:39 er, the idea I was thinking above. I'm not claiming ownership :p 20:23:46 jdz [~jdz@host202-105-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 20:24:12 -!- theom3ga [~jose@ucaip181.uca.es] has quit [Client Quit] 20:25:43 pkhuong_: would this be something like generators and gatherers, but without the dependency on SERIES? 20:25:58 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:26:02 -!- pierrep [~ppasteau@dyn-218-085.wireless.concordia.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:30:29 Makoryu [~bloodgog@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:33 rpg: the way generators and gatherers are defined, there's almost no way to make them efficient, though. 20:32:21 pkhuong_: right. I'd love to see your code sometime. All my code like this seems to get written onesy-twosy when more conventional lispy approaches are too inefficient. 20:33:46 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:35:14 aI have a bunch of mostly-read-only specialised simple vectors, and a permutation vector. All of my time was spent doing [select ... from data where ... order by ...], and computing the average, variance, and quartiles. 20:36:24 Hmmm, it seems like hunchentoot is *incredibly* slow... taking several minutes to load a page 20:36:34 In one case, a single 2k png took 40s 20:36:57 pebkac? 20:37:19 sykopomp: Without a doubt 20:37:49 But beyond that, I'm not sure how to diagnose it. It's easy to see I'm doing something wrong. Harder to tell where it is 20:37:53 varjag [~eugene@c0D61BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #lisp 20:38:20 if there's nothing terribly obvious, maybe you can try sb-sprof 20:38:47 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@233-13-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #lisp 20:39:06 if the code is short you can lisppaste it 20:39:08 -!- jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:39:20 murilasso [~murilasso@189.103.20.140] has joined #lisp 20:39:43 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 20:39:45 adeht: It's getting pretty long now 20:39:56 I'll try sb-prof 20:40:16 sprof 20:41:51 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-119-127.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:52 s0ber_ [~s0ber@111-240-205-159.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:43:43 Why is it that even though I'm using sbcl, I don't have anything under sb: 20:44:12 Because there's no package named "SB"? 20:45:09 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-218-39.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:45:12 I always see references to functions like sb:sprof, etc. 20:45:19 sb-sprof: 20:45:21 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 20:45:39 all are in /usr/lib/sbcl 20:45:54 most of them begin with sb- 20:46:43 -!- jdz [~jdz@host202-105-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:47:10 -!- Makoryu [~bloodgog@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:48:39 -!- gozek [~quassel@85.52.166.111] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:50:15 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050067124.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20:50:23 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host242-182-dynamic.21-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:50:43 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:51:32 -!- bandu [~coyotama@pool-71-164-234-131.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: client closed in haste] 20:52:37 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 20:55:26 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:55:44 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:56:54 drdo [~user@77.54.208.2] has joined #lisp 20:57:00 -!- trigen [~MSX@87.209.144.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:57:16 -!- froydnj [~froydnj@gateway.codesourcery.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:57:49 How does one implement recursion with lexical scope? 20:58:09 loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.179] has joined #lisp 20:58:19 What do you mean? 20:59:16 minion: please tell drdo about LiSP 20:59:16 drdo: direct your attention towards LiSP: "Lisp in Small Pieces". This book covers Lisp, Scheme and other related dialects, their interpretation, semantics and compilation. To sum it up in a few figures: 500 pages, 11 chapters, 11 interpreters and 2 compilers. 20:59:36 -!- varjag [~eugene@c0D61BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:59:39 drdo: good read. 21:00:21 -!- silenius [~silenus@rrcs-64-183-24-38.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:00:31 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 21:01:39 trigen [~MSX@87.209.144.213] has joined #lisp 21:01:45 What i mean is, if you make a function and then bind it to some name, at the time of function creation, that name is unbound 21:03:42 drdo: setf/funcall. 21:03:43 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 21:04:04 pkhuong_: ? 21:04:41 petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc2-midd16-2-0-cust169.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:04:42 drdo: Are you trying to use FLET or something? 21:05:16 nyef: no, this doesn't really apply to common lisp 21:05:27 in common lisp the top level is dynamic 21:05:36 jgracin [~jgracin@vipnet1027.mobile.carnet.hr] has joined #lisp 21:09:36 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:10:28 *nyef* points out that FLET functions are lexically-scoped. 21:11:09 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 21:11:54 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:11:57 nyef: yes, they are, but you can't do recursion there 21:12:25 True. That's what LABELS is for. 21:12:58 *facepalm* 21:13:10 ? 21:13:25 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has left #lisp 21:13:41 I guess drdo wonders about calling a function that's not yet defined 21:13:57 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 21:14:04 I'm asking if anyone could give insights into how recursion can be implemet with purely lexical scope (or if it even is possible) 21:14:09 *implemented 21:14:10 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:14:12 -!- humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:14:14 drdo: setf and funcall. 21:14:21 pkhuong_: Can you elaborate? 21:14:28 or, if you dislike side effects, a variant of the Y combinator. 21:14:53 pkhuong_: The problem is you can't implement the Y combinator 21:14:58 (let (fun) (setf fun (lambda (..) ... (funcall fun ...))) (funcall fun ...)) 21:15:04 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 21:15:07 what do you mean, I can't implement the Y combinator?! 21:15:40 Ok, i see what you did there 21:15:48 (defun y-combinate (fun) (funcall fun fun)) ? 21:16:22 sellout_ [~rooms@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:31 pkhuong_: no actually that shouldn't be correct 21:16:43 when the lambda expression is evaluated 21:16:51 the value of fun should be captured as NIL 21:16:59 values aren't captured 21:17:01 bindings are 21:17:03 ^ 21:17:05 Not if you have mutable bindings. 21:17:32 (And, believe me, I know what I'm talking about with closures and mutable bindings.) 21:17:47 Then it isn't really lexical is it? 21:17:52 _danb_ [~user@124-149-32-186.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 21:18:01 it has lexical scope and indefinite extent 21:18:09 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 21:18:20 drdo: I'm not sure what you think lexical means, but you should probably grab a book at this point. 21:18:30 I'm probably just using lexical as what i think/want it to mean instead of the agreed upon definition 21:18:31 -!- gonzojive [~red@171.66.94.58] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 21:18:52 Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:18:59 should special variable be called dyslexical? 21:19:29 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 21:20:31 unprintable 21:21:43 vroufe [~omx@ppp94-29-9-58.pppoe.spdop.ru] has joined #lisp 21:26:57 -!- sellout_ [~rooms@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Rooms  iPhone IRC Client  http://www.roomsapp.mobi] 21:28:25 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.49.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:28:29 -!- jgracin [~jgracin@vipnet1027.mobile.carnet.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:29:34 nyef: Have a minute? 21:29:35 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:30:04 Fare suggested I should ask you about your git scripts --- ASDF could use some pre-commit ones. 21:30:21 Ahh. 21:30:22 Edward__ [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-57-138.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:30:25 -!- edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: edlinde] 21:30:26 Those scripts. 21:30:32 Not the ones I use for SBCL? 21:31:02 nyef: He wasn't specific. We have, e.g., a problem that we'd like to make sure that a version number, which must be in three locations, should be updated everywhere on a push. 21:31:15 Ahh. 21:31:48 -!- vroufe [~omx@ppp94-29-9-58.pppoe.spdop.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:31:51 Do you want automatic verification that it was correctly manually updated, or automatic update to the number in all three places? 21:31:52 Whitespace canonicalization might be nice, too. 21:32:12 nyef: I guess my understanding was that only the former was feasible with git. 21:32:22 *nyef* smirks. 21:32:28 vroufe [~omx@ppp94-29-9-58.pppoe.spdop.ru] has joined #lisp 21:32:29 I made the latter work. 21:32:41 edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 21:32:59 nyef: really! Do tell! 21:33:08 Looking for the email now. 21:33:20 I tried to do something similar with smudge and clean, but gave up after a while. 21:33:48 http://article.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.steel-bank.devel/14990/match=git+script 21:35:08 IIRC, post-receive can't abort a commit, but it turned out to be a perfect place to hang a rewrite hook. 21:35:28 You should be able to whitespacely-canonicalize at the same point. 21:36:37 -!- loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.179] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:36:48 -!- edlinde [~edlinde@90-227-7-243-no15.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:37:34 nyef: wow....that's....amazineg. 21:37:40 amazing. 21:38:00 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A7216.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:38:31 TheOm3ga [~jose@84.122.7.221.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 21:38:32 nyef: what would be the procedure for cutting over from an original git repo to one like this? 21:38:34 hello 21:39:06 is there a way of comparing an object with a function? 21:39:24 billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:42:06 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:42:29 is the handling of (machine-version) and (software-version) things impl. specific ? 21:43:02 i get for (machine-type) and (machine-version) "X86" in cmucl 21:43:22 nyef: So does this work because the SBCL-commits are really CVS commits and have the metadata you need? 21:44:16 wheras (software-version) print "2.6.26-2-686 #1 SMP Thu Sep 16 19:35:51 UTC 2010" in cmucl and in sbcl it prints 21:44:16 only "2.6.26-2-686" 21:44:22 TheOm3ga: a function is just another object.. EQL compares objects for sameness 21:44:39 TheOm3ga, yes. All functions are first class objects. 21:44:48 It basically works because there's only a single line of commits in the mainline. 21:44:50 nyef: Never mind --- I see, there's a file with the current version number in the repo. 21:44:55 Yeah, exactly. 21:45:14 however (machine-version) prints "Intel(R) Pentium(R) Dual CPU E2160 @ 1.80GHz" in sbcl 21:45:16 adeht, younder, that's basically what I thought at first 21:45:32 but looks like I'm missing something 21:45:50 To cut over, you'd start with a git mirror of your CVS. 21:45:54 ok it works now, I was missing the ' before the function name 21:47:13 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:48:24 nyef: We actually are already on git. So what I'd need to do, probably is something like make a new "commits" branch, separate from master, make master un-push-able, and then use this. 21:48:36 Yup. 21:48:47 That's basically it. 21:49:01 And don't forget to prevent non-fastforward commits. 21:49:43 *rpg* is going to do git repo surgery. Cf: http://realitystudio.org/texts/naked-lunch/benway-operates/ 21:50:05 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-153-67.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 21:50:09 TheOm3ga: uhhh 21:50:28 "Did I ever tell you about the time I performed a git rebase with a rusty sardine can?" 21:50:29 TheOm3ga: Are you comparing symbols now? Can I see the call to EQL you're using?... 21:50:48 *sykopomp* git-rebases with his eyes closed. 21:51:00 ...and thinking of England 21:52:33 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 21:53:38 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:54:14 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:54:38 -!- drdo [~user@77.54.208.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:00:56 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:00:59 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:03:18 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@233-13-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:04:14 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 22:05:32 austinh [~austinh@c-67-189-92-40.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:05:53 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 22:07:00 So! 22:07:05 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-18-99.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:07:16 -!- seangrove [~user@c-71-198-44-87.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:07:34 lispbuilder-sdl has an additional step on darwin where you have to issue "make" in a particular directory to build a helper library. how can i add that to its system file? 22:08:59 #+darwin (error "Not supported on darwin") ? 22:09:37 nyef: Ha ha ha ha no. 22:09:48 Didn't think so. 22:09:56 -!- aoh [~aki@80.75.102.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:10:01 It's supported just fine, and running commands is something asdf does nicely, I just don't know how to do it. Is there an example you'd suggest I study? 22:10:02 Xach: perhaps (defmethod perform :before ((o compile-op) ...) (run-program "make" (list "-C" ""))) 22:10:36 Maybe one of the "grovel" libraries that needs to call out to a C compiler? 22:10:45 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-201-140.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:01 aoh [~aki@80.75.102.51] has joined #lisp 22:12:13 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-18-99.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:16:39 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-213-80.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:17:13 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-201-140.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:17:56 -!- TheOm3ga [~jose@84.122.7.221.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:19:43 hu.dwim.asdf contains this (in-package :sb-impl), which seems stupid. 22:20:45 ... It /what/?!? 22:21:01 hilarious! 22:21:38 -!- quack [~quack@bl15-125-168.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 22:21:39 I've written code for stuff that needed to compile bits in an SBCL internal package before, but... Eesh. 22:21:47 -!- muhdik [~IceChat7@parkmobile-usa.oneringnetworks.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:22:17 leo2007: I can't find anything like that. Where did you get your hu.dwim.asdf? 22:22:19 (I also turned around and patched SBCL to not require my code to compile into said internal package.) 22:22:21 leo2007: what file is it in? 22:22:25 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93-87-180-228.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:23:44 system.lisp 22:23:49 here it looks like it just redefines sb-impl::line-length (w/o in-package) 22:24:00 Xach: from git://github.com/nixeagle/hu.dwim.asdf.git 22:24:15 leo2007: that is not the canonical hu.dwim.asdf. 22:24:21 adeht: and it's conditionalized with #+sbcl 22:24:34 right 22:24:38 -!- sigjuice [~sigjuice@c-24-130-52-60.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:26:39 -!- taylanub [~taylanub@p4FD95572.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4-dev] 22:27:42 Xach: I think I am going to use quicklisp now. Is it easy to track local changes with quicklisp? 22:28:28 Redefines LINE-LENGTH? Why? 22:28:56 nyef: comment references https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/501075 22:29:19 of course that's a nasty workaround 22:29:24 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-26-60.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:29:59 leo2007: Seems easy to me. 22:30:05 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:30:22 ... Ah. 22:30:23 Xach: thanks. 22:30:33 osoleve [~sabayonus@adsl-074-166-228-237.sip.bct.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 22:30:36 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:30:59 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-46-152.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:32:19 -!- Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Planned down time ^^] 22:32:42 leo2007: what kinds of local changes do you track? 22:32:45 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:33:06 qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has joined #lisp 22:33:10 -!- redline6561 [~redline@gate-30.spsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:33:27 Xach: usually small fixes to make packages load on OSX. 22:33:54 p_l|home [~pl@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 22:34:26 -!- trigen [~MSX@87.209.144.213] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:35:47 -!- Walt [~Walt@c-4f66702b-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:36:09 leo2007: what are some examples? 22:36:14 Joreji [~thomas@67-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 22:36:16 Walt [~Walt@c-4f66702b-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 22:37:13 Xach: http://paste.pocoo.org/show/288618 22:38:27 with git I usually make a new branch for myself. 22:39:17 What project is that? 22:40:21 -!- vroufe [~omx@ppp94-29-9-58.pppoe.spdop.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:40:28 vroufe [~omx@ppp94-29-9-58.pppoe.spdop.ru] has joined #lisp 22:41:15 iolib 22:41:49 Xach: no worries though. I like quicklisp. 22:42:34 trigen [~MSX@87.209.144.213] has joined #lisp 22:44:13 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-149-32-186.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:45:01 gonzojive [~red@171.66.87.203] has joined #lisp 22:45:02 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:46:39 skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #lisp 22:47:18 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-54-82-251-74-213.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 22:49:40 -!- NNshag [user@lns-bzn-22-82-249-123-71.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:51:32 -!- qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has left #lisp 22:53:31 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:53:59 nefo [~nefo@2402:f000:5:8f01::143:81] has joined #lisp 22:53:59 -!- nefo [~nefo@2402:f000:5:8f01::143:81] has quit [Changing host] 22:53:59 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 22:54:02 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 22:55:12 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-18-239.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:58:14 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 23:00:09 Did SBCL around 1.0.41 have problems printing base-strings readably? 23:00:30 I can't (print (string-downcase :name) out) with standard io syntax 23:01:52 gigamonkey: base-strings can't be printed readably 23:01:57 sbcl for ever has had this feature 23:02:08 all part of the evil plan to make people write portable code 23:02:10 sorry 23:02:29 nybbles [~nybbles@vpn15.cs.ubc.ca] has joined #lisp 23:02:54 #.(make-array 5 :element-type 'base-char :initial-contents '(#\H #\e #\l #\l #\o)) ? 23:03:19 So you're saying (print (string-downcase :name)) should not work? 23:05:41 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:06:15 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:06:44 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-153-67.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:08:02 Or maybe the other way to ask it is, how am I supposed to know that STRING-DOWNCASE might return a string that can't be printed readably? 23:09:02 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:09:02 -!- Joreji [~thomas@67-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:09:08 -!- Edward__ [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-57-138.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 23:09:12 -!- superflit [~superflit@140.226.49.160] has quit [Quit: superflit] 23:11:17 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:11:39 Xach: This bug in cl-fad "The function DELETE-DIRECTORY is predefined in Clozure CL." is not yet fixed. 23:12:37 leo2007: I sent the patch to Edi and he will apply it and release soon. 23:15:56 Krystof: I guess that question was directed to you. 23:16:48 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:18:31 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 23:19:20 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-132-188-47.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:20:47 Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 23:21:53 Xach: thanks. How to load local systems that aren't part of Quicklisp? 23:22:03 jdz [~jdz@host202-105-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 23:23:01 clhs string-downcase 23:23:09 ... Damnit, specbot! 23:23:30 minion: Are you here? 23:23:32 maybe 23:23:34 Good. 23:24:32 specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 23:24:45 clhs string-downcase 23:24:46 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_stg_up.htm 23:24:49 leo2007: if they are visible via asdf:find-system, you can use (ql:quickload "local-system") 23:26:09 gigamonkey: Because the output is specified to be "just like" the input, with a specific change, and symbol names are permitted to be stored as BASE-STRINGs by the implementation. 23:26:49 Xach: Many thanks for your quicklisp and help. 23:29:42 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 23:30:12 No problem. 23:32:13 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:36:27 is it illegal to generate and use the ansi spec in info format? 23:36:28 syntard_ [~chatzilla@fl-74-4-76-189.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 23:36:28 -!- dnm [~dnm@static-71-166-174-24.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:36:39 pmd: at worst it's a copyright violation. You won't go to jail. ;-) 23:36:47 -!- V-ille [~ville@ville-hp.dhcp.fnal.gov] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:36:48 Copyright law seems to be as good as toilet paper for a large part of the general populace. 23:36:48 -!- syntard [~chatzilla@204.51.92.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:36:48 nyef: since I enjoy spec pedantry as much as the next guy, can you show me the particular bits that go together to add up to the result that strings may or may not be readably printed? 23:36:48 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.218.107] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 23:36:48 I'm not doubting you; just curious. 23:36:48 -!- syntard_ is now known as syntard 23:36:57 so distributing such piece of work would be piracy? 23:37:18 how can one discover lambda list of a function and macro? 23:37:29 syntard: read the source code! 23:37:45 pmd: it might be a copytight violation 23:37:49 sykopomp: no, functionally 23:37:50 *copyright 23:38:08 sykopomp: as in "reflection" 23:38:29 drdo [~user@2.208.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 23:38:35 Umm... Any such chain of logic is probably going to involve 3.2.4.2.2, which is the definition of "similarity". 23:38:48 syntard: it's not portable: function-lambda-expression 23:39:24 fe[nl]ix: damn... what about the hyperspec inside a chm file? 23:39:26 thanks 23:40:38 And there's 22.1.3.4... Yeah, that's it. 23:40:57 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:41:15 A BASE-STRING is an ARRAY, and thus must be reconstituted as a BASE-STRING, but 22.1.3.4 requires that STRINGs be printed with a specific literal syntax which doesn't allow this. 23:41:31 syntard: best thing is to find implementation dependent ways of getting the argument list and wrap it 23:41:49 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:41:54 pmd: of course! 23:42:00 -!- TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@124-171-213-236.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:42:09 how does sbcl initialize *default-pathname-defaults* on linux? 23:42:23 it's getting a weird directory on my machine, and I'd like to fix that. 23:42:29 Fade: With great difficulty if the current working directory has been removed? 23:42:58 it's consistently taking ~/Documents on my linux workstation. 23:43:07 TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@203-217-33-105.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 23:43:10 It must be getting that from some environment variable? 23:43:33 Joreji [~thomas@67-052.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 23:43:39 ISTR it using getcwd(3) or equivalent. 23:43:55 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 23:44:51 nyef: I'm not sure I'm convinced that section (which is about literal objects in compiled files applies to the print/read loop. 23:45:02 Fade: It's done in OS-COLD-INIT-OR-REINIT, in SYS:SRC;CODE;COMMON-OS.LISP 23:45:28 Ah, I guess the docs for *print-readably* use "similar" 23:46:47 -!- trigen [~MSX@87.209.144.213] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:46:49 Yeah, and the glossary entry for similar refers to "similarity", which refers to 3.2.4. 23:47:36 -!- vroufe [~omx@ppp94-29-9-58.pppoe.spdop.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:47:56 Where do they define what it means for types to be similar? 23:48:11 Am I missing it on this page: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/03_bdbb.htm 23:48:20 Now, if it's possible for a portable implementation to read "foo" as being a BASE-STRING if #\f and #\o are both BASE-CHARs, then you get the even /less/ helpful behavior that some non-BASE-STRING STRINGs aren't readably printable. 23:49:09 You mean for the actual array element type? 23:49:19 yeah. 23:49:27 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-54-82-251-74-213.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 23:49:33 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-54-82-251-74-213.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 23:49:59 I'm not sure that's actually less helpful. Though I see your point. 23:50:24 That's badly worded, isn't it? 23:51:15 Wait, no... The /sets/ are the same iif the specifiers are the same, especially since the specifiers are constrained by the whole array-type-specialization thing. 23:51:58 Still badly worded. 23:52:15 if i want the :initial-elements of a list to be blanks, do i set them to #\ ? 23:52:36 If you mean space characters you should use #\Space 23:52:44 Same thing but more readable. 23:52:51 thanks 23:53:22 minion: proposed%20ansi? 23:53:23 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``proposed%20ansi''. 23:53:28 minion: proposed ansi? 23:53:28 please stop playing with me... i am not a toy 23:53:29 nyef: basically I'm pretty unconvinced that it's a great idea to have two kinds of strings, some which can be readably printed and some which can't. 23:53:30 wow, I just got a direct answer from the author of one of the three books i'm taking with me to my "desert island" 23:54:43 Jubb [~ghost@129.21.85.245] has joined #lisp 23:54:54 trigen [~MSX@87.209.144.213] has joined #lisp 23:55:06 gigamonkey: Yeah, well, take it up with http://www.cliki.net/Proposed%20ANSI%20Revisions%20and%20Clarifications 23:55:19 nyef: right. 23:56:14 Just remember, the standard also requires that (make-array nil :element-type nil) return a string, and that string is /also/ not readably printable. 23:56:26 Though in my current situation, it seems like if the names of symbols were simple-character-strings rather than simple-base-strings I'd be okaiy. 23:56:37 dnm [~dnm@c-68-34-57-169.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:56:50 nyef: yeah, but that's clearly a weird screw case. 23:56:52 Oh, wait, maybe that dimension parameter should be 0, not nil. 23:57:49 -!- jgballar1 [~jgballard@host109-156-5-61.range109-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 23:58:08 does (nth) start at 0 or 1? 23:58:16 0 23:58:27 ahh that's twice now, thank you 23:58:36 Though that'd be easy to figure out at the REPL or by reading the CLHS entry on NTH. 23:59:01 I know, I just really needed some form of interaction 23:59:07 Possibly even the docstring for NTH, depending on the implementation... 23:59:15 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp