00:04:07 -!- abugosh [~Adium@12.167.132.226] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:06:40 good night... 00:11:18 chaslemley [~chaslemle@h12.14.30.71.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:35 -!- xinming_ [~hyy@115.221.6.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:15:47 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@187.87.233.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:19:10 -!- fgump [~gauthamg@188.74.82.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:22:51 abugosh [~Adium@12.167.132.226] has joined #lisp 00:23:24 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 00:23:55 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:39:26 beach` [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-70-172.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 00:39:43 Ugh. What to do about people who make gratuituous indentation changes to code while making one small change to one function. 00:42:20 todo ? 00:42:21 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:42:39 get an axe 00:43:32 careful with that axe eugene! 00:43:50 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-9-138.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:43:54 vorpal sord nice too 00:44:03 -!- joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has left #lisp 00:44:12 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 00:44:52 ... 00:48:58 Especially if that person has never contributed a new feature or fixed a bug, but churns the code to make it harder for someone else to see what's really changed. 00:49:24 sounds like a policy problem 00:51:09 blunt objects god too 00:52:00 especially that golden cow. 00:52:51 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:52:52 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@b01-1.nat.iastate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:53:06 my livelihood involves pushing code to linux boxes with scripts someone else wrote bash calling perl 00:53:13 then a galaxy of one offs 00:53:24 most of which are controlled by a pack of perl scripts 00:56:08 Oh, well. Not much I can do about it, but it's certainly a pain. His best change was replacing memq with member :test 'eq, everywhere. The smart thing would have been to define a compiler macro or, if necessary, change memq into a macro. Lot's of work for no reason. 00:57:25 well tell him or her your opinion 00:58:01 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-76-168.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 00:58:11 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-57-38.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:59:13 rtoym: MACRO? inline function! 01:00:05 -!- Genosh [~Genosh@193.153.54.47] has quit [] 01:00:13 rtoym: They're young and dumb. Let them know you appreciate the effort but tell them where they went wrong. 01:00:42 rtoym: I'm still *very* young and *very* dumb but I usually appreciate being told why I am so. :) 01:00:50 felideon [~felideon@adsl-32-224-252.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:01:08 pkhuong_: Yeah, that too. And if Lisp doesn't inline functions, get a different lisp. :-) 01:02:00 what's wrong with memq? 01:02:22 redline6561: Yeah, but I'm just a contributor and I don't check every single checkin. I just happened to notice it. And he did the changes over several checkins spread over months. How smart is that? 01:02:41 rtoym: Ouch. 01:02:59 it's a little old-fashioned, but seems harmless. 01:03:11 rme: Exactly. That's what I said. But he did say changing it made the testsuite run 5% faster. I would have disallowed it if I were in charge. 01:03:26 -!- chaslemley [~chaslemle@h12.14.30.71.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:03:33 fix memq then :| 01:04:13 I assumed it was the function call overhead, plus the compiler not being able to do any magic that it might do for the known member function. 01:05:17 sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.163.115] has joined #lisp 01:07:01 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:09:53 chaslemley [~chaslemle@h201.48.90.75.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 01:11:17 -!- d-c [~DC@118.229.96.40] has left #lisp 01:13:24 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:15:12 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:16:43 -!- H4ns [~user@pD4B9E5A2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:16:56 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-093-123.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:17:50 billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 01:18:30 -!- abugosh [~Adium@12.167.132.226] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:18:35 hello 01:18:55 -!- phrixos [~Phrixos@bs0176.nerc-bas.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 01:19:34 hi billitch 01:19:53 is anyone aware of some method to make the reader handle |.| as a regular symbol ? 01:20:02 -!- konr [~user@187.106.38.106] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:20:05 hi Xach =) 01:20:42 |.| is a regular symbol! do you mean without the multiple escape character |? 01:20:52 yes 01:21:01 (set-macro-character #\. nil) does not seem to do the trick 01:21:15 billitch: I think that might be ingrained in the reader much like :'s syntax is. 01:21:33 but i'm not completely sure. pjb's portable reader might be hookable for your purposes. 01:22:52 ok thanks ! 01:26:33 Something about set-syntax-from-char, maybe? 01:28:56 Ah, it's already a constituent. 01:29:13 Yeah, looks like one of those hardwired things. 01:29:40 clhs 2.3.3 01:29:40 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_cc.htm 01:30:30 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:30:58 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: nighty night] 01:32:19 -!- jomatv6 [~jomat@2001:470:9935::badc:ab1e] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:34:37 -!- easyE [mYE0GEtuJa@panix3.panix.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:37:46 jomatv6 [~jomat@2001:470:9935::badc:ab1e] has joined #lisp 01:38:53 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.163.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:39:02 -!- timack [~tim@hlfx55-2b-37.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:39:38 -!- aDuck [~aduck@bl14-141-108.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:42:04 hugod_ [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441951.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:44:29 too bad the reader is not implemented in terms of reusable parser primitives 01:45:14 re-usale code? 01:46:09 i know the clhs can't change but subtyping it seems like a good idea sometimes 01:46:13 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/20_a.htm 01:46:15 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:46:17 ah file operations 01:46:19 i mean the CL Spec 01:46:35 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:46:49 qbomb [~qbomb@12.153.207.157] has joined #lisp 01:47:43 billitch: don't pay attention to republican_devil 01:49:20 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:50:16 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 01:56:58 where must i put *.lisp files which are referenced in an .asd ? 01:58:35 Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 01:59:44 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:00:30 -!- felideon [~felideon@adsl-32-224-252.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:00:47 xristos [~x@2001:470:8859:cafe:20c:29ff:fe47:788] has joined #lisp 02:00:55 humasect: they are usually already in the right relative path in the source dir 02:01:30 hmm. 02:01:44 -!- zoskia is now known as Zoskia 02:02:03 -!- Zoskia is now known as zoskia 02:02:37 but i am making a few .asd's which are floating outside of the common system install location 02:03:06 the way i am doing now is M-x slime-cd to the right place 02:03:22 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:03:46 sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.163.115] has joined #lisp 02:03:48 oh man i found how to recompile already loaded systems with asdf2 02:03:52 lol 02:05:11 somehipbody [~somebody@99.165.6.218] has joined #lisp 02:05:25 humasect: afaik the relative path of the installed files according to the .asd files can be found after the :module keyword in the .asd file 02:05:41 hmm 02:06:02 asdf is not telling me a compile error also 02:07:20 oh there it is. 02:08:51 humasect: is your problem solved or did you mean asdf has finally told you a compile error by "there it is"? :) 02:09:23 ah sorry -- it was quite a big message, the error was scrolled up a ways. =) 02:10:41 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:11:46 -!- udzinari` [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:13:47 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:14:21 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 02:15:16 -!- austinh [~austinh@c-67-189-92-40.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:20:33 -!- seangrove [~user@c-71-198-44-87.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:21:29 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 02:35:13 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@71.16.32.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:39:41 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 02:44:16 Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@bas1-guelph22-1177908019.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:45:25 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-119-127.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 02:45:45 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:49:14 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:53:12 zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has joined #lisp 02:53:28 rukowen [~thehien@113.161.72.89] has joined #lisp 02:56:51 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-119-127.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:59:47 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:04:53 http://paste.lisp.org/+2HGO 03:04:58 oh my oh my 03:06:10 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:07:46 Demosthenes [~demo@71.16.32.66] has joined #lisp 03:08:27 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:10:13 p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 03:12:57 yan_: if you're still here, I'm around. But it looks like you figured out what was going on. 03:13:16 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 03:13:17 -!- chaslemley [~chaslemle@h201.48.90.75.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:25:08 -!- rukowen [~thehien@113.161.72.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:28:00 -!- drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:29:01 rukowen [~thehien@113.161.72.9] has joined #lisp 03:30:29 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:30:41 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:31:03 easyE [LLqvRdZUEd@panix3.panix.com] has joined #lisp 03:31:37 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 03:31:39 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 03:32:10 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 03:32:31 -!- _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: XChat has encountered a problem and needs to close] 03:32:51 homie: what are you doing with this .sbclrc file? :D 03:33:13 doing ? 03:33:37 testing 03:35:29 homie: why does sbclrc first load then clear then load each system again? 03:35:58 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:36:23 trying to catch on lib or asdf errors 03:37:11 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:38:07 it will probably already get cought if there is asdf or library related error 03:39:30 i mean it will get cought at the first loading of systems 03:39:49 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:40:08 no it does not get caught when i leave off the removals and reloads 03:42:31 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-248-234.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:42:36 ok nst,clsql and cl-syslog give errors at least 03:42:56 source file wise 03:43:04 oh and rutils too 03:43:50 huups metatilities did too 03:45:04 and sb-bsd-sockets gah 03:45:41 and sb-posix 03:45:52 -!- somehipbody [~somebody@99.165.6.218] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:48:05 so it loads successfully the first time? 03:48:18 when you just load it once 03:48:52 yes, no errors other then warnings, that some things could not be put on to stack etc.... 03:49:21 then there are no errors to be caught 03:50:27 either i am not able to explain it or you don't understand my undertakings 03:50:36 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:51:48 i'm on to catching symbol stuff either injections or internings nad the rest cleanup etc.. of my toplevel env or repl 03:51:48 i don't know much what happens under the hood about systems and packages so i don't know why you get errors, but if they each library load successfully the first time, then there is obviously nothing wrong with libraries themselves 03:52:35 and there is probably little possibility that there is something wrong with asdf handling the systems 03:52:54 i think there is something wrong with your approach to system loading 03:53:08 yes but there may be things how the systems interact 03:53:37 what do you propose then ? 03:53:48 how would you do it ? 03:54:12 seangrove [~user@c-71-198-44-87.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:54:21 xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-208-169.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 03:57:31 -!- az [~az@p5796CAC0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:57:54 at first, i wouldn't load all these libraries at the same time since last time i checked there were libraries that compansate each other and it is possible that some of them use conflicting package names. 03:59:33 if you really need to try if these libraries will cause problems when you recompile, then do the check one by one from inside the repl 04:01:38 so load unload reload recompiling for every and each alone ? 04:02:02 setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:02:59 registering system nst as nst then a class not yet defined nst-group-record ? 04:03:37 dnm_ [~dnm@c-68-34-57-169.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:03:37 checking which libraries cause errors this way isn't logical anyway when you do it to that much libraries, since if you have error loading a system like cffi which lots of other systems depend, and fail to load it, all other libraries will cause errors, too, since the dependend library couldn't be able to load. 04:04:07 -!- Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@bas1-guelph22-1177908019.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:04:10 ok, i will do the one by one approach 04:04:29 just have to make lot's of copies of subsets of my original sbclrc 04:05:08 az [~az@p4FE4EC78.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:05:56 symbole [~user@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:06:05 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-178-106.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 04:12:58 -!- republican_devil [~g@pool101.bizrate.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:17:59 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:20:30 is there a way to list all symbols from a given package? 04:20:58 there are exported and not exported ones 04:21:16 do-symbols and do-external-symbols you can use 04:21:25 in a loop 04:21:51 derrida: Are you aware of the hyperspec? 04:21:55 interesting, reading now, thanks. 04:21:56 cl-cookbok will tell you 04:23:32 homie: sweet, do-all-symbols too 04:23:38 ah 04:23:40 ok 04:25:01 homie: hehe, that works on *all* symbols actually. you were right with do-symbols and do-external-symbols. 04:25:13 all meaning all packages 04:25:35 so cleansing stuff would be to scan for all the symbols of a package which was already interned and unintern all the symbols of that package which match with the current symbols in the cl-user env 04:25:46 puuh 04:26:01 Why not shadow? 04:28:03 -!- Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:31:11 -!- rukowen [~thehien@113.161.72.9] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:32:37 does shadowing work with gensyms too ? 04:33:07 Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 04:33:12 what if i want to shadow something when that something was already gensymed i mean 04:33:38 that doesn't make sense 04:34:05 so 04:35:08 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-lptcpxnyksdtbjlt] has joined #lisp 04:41:19 homie: shadowing has to do with the relation of symbols to packages. Gensyms are not part of packages. 04:41:57 so are not keywords 04:42:10 hmmmmmm 04:44:28 how does one get rid of keywords ? 04:44:44 they are not interned not ? 04:45:22 so no need to get rid of'em ? or is there something going on under the hood ? 04:45:34 keywords already does nothing spesific outside their context so why do you want to get rid of them? 04:46:40 homie: keywords are all interned in the KEYWORD package. 04:47:37 They also are also, under the covers, set as their own symbol-value. 04:48:32 drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:49:11 Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:49:58 gigamonkey: i mailed you about a year ago telling i am willing to translate pcl to turkish, remember? :) 04:50:49 gigamonkey: i think i translated most of the intro then, but i must admit, it is a hell of a job 04:51:07 -!- beach` is now known as beach 04:51:23 Good morning everyone! 04:51:25 i tried to find some help when i saw things are going very slow, but couldn't find any :\ 04:51:34 good morning beach :) 04:52:06 what is the time there? 04:52:23 antivigilante [~antivigil@wsip-70-166-115-251.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:52:26 here? Almost 7:00. 04:53:23 homie: What seems to be the problem that you are trying to solve? 04:53:31 every morning you say good morning approximately the same time :) you must be a very organized person, i appreciate that 04:53:51 kenanb`: Actually, it varies from about 4:00 to about 8:00. 04:54:07 At that time of day it's all the same time -- the middle of the night. 04:54:21 It's whenever I wake up, and that depends on what I did the previous night. 04:55:29 nowadays i fall asleep at around 8-9 am, this is wrong 04:56:15 homie: are you trying to shadow some symbol which conflicts betweens similar libraries? 04:56:35 kenanb`: yeah, the folks who have succeeded with translations seem to have been teams. 04:57:54 gigamonkey: i learnt that some other guys tried to translate it into Turkish some time, but i couldn't reach 'em. so, sorry :\ 04:58:28 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:59:18 gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:02:50 nbrochu [~nbrochu@modemcable216.52-59-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 05:04:25 kenanb`: no worries. 05:07:50 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.163.115] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:09:11 -!- hugod_ is now known as hugod 05:15:14 -!- Intensity [EthQypzXuC@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:16:07 sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.163.115] has joined #lisp 05:19:34 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 05:21:39 gigamonkey: if you consider uploading translation chapter by chapter, i can still finish and send you at least the introduction soon since it was nearly finished already. and i can translate new chapters one by one whenever i have time. 05:26:24 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:28:10 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 05:28:18 xan_ 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[~daniel@p5B326370.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:05:10 good morning 07:05:58 ehu [~ehuels@109.34.168.5] has joined #lisp 07:06:16 -!- humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:07:55 -!- daniel_ [~daniel@p5B3274D6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:08:38 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:10:07 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.61.65] has joined #lisp 07:12:02 -!- drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:14:19 _8david [~user@port-92-195-132-21.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:16:40 -!- _8david` [~user@port-92-195-200-105.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:17:35 freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-119.vpn.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 07:20:33 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:20:41 silenius [~silenus@cpe-76-169-35-122.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:21:51 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:22:38 hello mvilleneuve 07:25:32 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:26:12 Hun [~Hun@80.81.19.29] has joined #lisp 07:26:18 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-25-78.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:27:06 -!- silenius [~silenus@cpe-76-169-35-122.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:27:56 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 07:35:43 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-60-2.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:37:08 _6502_ [5895bdc9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.149.189.201] has joined #lisp 07:37:45 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 07:37:59 <_6502_> why after defpackage and in-package I still get a package lock violation when trying "(defstruct round ...)" ? 07:38:22 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-60-2.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 07:42:12 _6502_: Did you :use :common-lisp? 07:42:54 because round is a symbol in CL 07:43:02 which is locked 07:43:09 <_6502_> yes 07:43:11 so you can't define it as a struct 07:43:16 _6502_: Then that's the problem. You are importing the `round' symbol from the common-lisp package. 07:43:18 <_6502_> hmmm 07:43:43 _6502_: But you can shadow it in your defpackage if you like. 07:43:47 <_6502_> so there is no way to program in lisp unless knowing and avoiding al the jillions names already used in common-lisp ? 07:44:05 yeah 07:44:14 no namespace thingie like in c++ 07:44:17 _6502_: Sure there is. Just don't :use the common-lisp package. 07:44:25 homie: Oh, come on! 07:44:29 lol 07:44:33 <_6502_> hehehe... 07:45:05 _6502_: is there a lisp for the 6502, or at least for the 8510? ;-) 07:45:12 jep don't use :cl or :common-lisp or any nick of it 07:45:16 <_6502_> I still don't get it... so either I use everywhere cl:blah-blah or I cannot safely define any new name ? 07:45:19 _6502_: jillions? 07:45:36 <_6502_> jdz: sorry, gazillions 07:45:48 _6502_: I told you. Shadow the symbol you don't want to import. Or import only the symbols that you want. 07:46:10 _6502_: Why do you jump to conclusions without reading the CLHS? 07:46:13 :import-from :cl "blah" 07:46:18 flip214: doubtful 07:46:49 I've still got two D in the garage ... but I don't know whether the 5¼" drives would still work 07:47:19 _6502_: well, i don't remember the exact number, but it's somewhere around 978 07:47:27 flip214: I seem to recall some lisp on 6502 actually 07:47:51 <_6502_> beach: just seems to me that explicitly requiring shadowing is awkward... i still need to know that the name is used to ask to shadow it 07:48:11 _6502_: Then use the other method. Only import the symbols you want and know about. 07:48:12 _6502_: and you can use the names in many contexts, except the ones which would redefine the "meaning" of the exported symol 07:48:14 <_6502_> beach: basically makes impossibile to write lisp code without knowing all names defined in common lisp 07:48:27 p_l@uni: the best thing I know in that direction is lunix 07:48:43 _6502_: No, for the third time, only import the symbols you want and know about. Again, you are jumping to conclusions. 07:48:44 :shadowing-import 07:49:22 dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 07:49:57 <_6502_> beach: so every time I use a common lisp work i know i should go to the top of my file and list the name in an import clause (unless it's already there) ? 07:49:58 flip214: there is (or rather, was) HGL-Lisp which ran on Commodore 07:50:01 p_l@uni: But yes, google returns newsgroup entries with HGL-Lisp in them 07:50:02 and you would refer to your exported thing by yourpackage:yoursymbol in cl-user 07:50:05 <_6502_> work=wod 07:50:09 <_6502_> wod=word 07:50:14 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:51:01 I also found something for Apple II 07:51:22 <_6502_> homie: isn't that the other way around... i.e. importing my module ? 07:52:02 *_6502_* is dumb and just don't get it 07:52:16 _6502_: ever tried to make a struct named printf in C? 07:52:37 system's consist of packages, module is deprecated, is kept for back compat 07:53:28 so you would import you package if, and doing so will only import the smybols you stated as exportable in your package 07:55:08 abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 07:58:07 <_6502_> jdz: you are VERY unlucky... in C structs have a separate namespace http://pastebin.com/LkeT5G7W 07:59:02 _6502_, you can define a package 6502-lisp that only imports those symbols from CL that you know. 08:00:20 can someone make interactive things like in emacs with cl ? 08:00:22 <_6502_> fare: still it's not a future-proof solution ... if CL adds new names my code stops working for no good reasons 08:01:02 minion: tell homie about climacs 08:01:03 homie: look at climacs: Climacs is an Emacs-like text editor written in Common Lisp. http://www.cliki.net/climacs 08:01:18 minion: tell homie about gsharp 08:01:18 homie: look at gsharp: Gsharp is a graphical, interactive score editing application for standard Music notation. http://www.cliki.net/gsharp 08:01:29 minion: tell homie about CLIM 08:01:30 homie: direct your attention towards CLIM: The Common Lisp Interface Manager (CLIM) is a powerful Lisp-based programming interface that provides a layered set of portable facilities for constructing user interfaces. http://www.cliki.net/CLIM 08:01:58 say i wanted to make something which warns me on every occasion when trying to use something in my package which would clash with the standard names 08:02:00 _6502_: Now what made you say that? 08:02:36 ah 08:02:37 _6502_: i'm not unlucky, people usually typedef their structs. (if you want to find another conflict, it's not very hard to find; the point is that naming conflicts exist in all programming languages, and they all provide ways to resolve them) 08:03:16 maus [~maus@1.139.39-62.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 08:03:36 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:03:44 Good morning! ^^ 08:03:46 Hello maus! 08:03:50 _6502_: if CL adds new names? i'd definitely want to see that one happen. 08:04:18 (well, not really; you know the thing about hell and ice and stuff) 08:04:19 beach: Hello beach! How are you today, sir!? 08:04:23 meandi [~meandi@dyndsl-178-142-054-193.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #lisp 08:04:28 jdz: Plus, what _6502_ is not true. Fare's suggestion protects against that. 08:04:44 maus: Fine thanks. What about yourself? Getting cold isn't it? 08:05:44 beach: I'm okie for today, but some days ago, I had a cold.. :) 08:06:02 beach: yes, the weather is quite cold now :) 08:06:19 maus: How long before you leave for home? 08:06:48 _6502_, my suggestion is proof to CL *adding* names. 08:06:57 which is not bloody likely to happen. 08:07:08 Ah, if only the MOP was standardized, etc. 08:07:26 beach: we stay here until mid of December, sir. 08:07:38 Fare: I am starting to think that _6502_ doesn't *really* want to solve his problem; just argue that it can't be solved. 08:07:50 beach: been there, done that. 08:07:52 maus: So it will get even colder :) 08:08:04 I once argued that ASDF couldn't be fixed... 08:08:05 Fare: didn't we get a blessing for CLtL3? 08:08:19 p_l|uni, who got a blessing from whom to do what? 08:08:26 <_6502_> back 08:08:37 beach: yes, it's gonna be interesting.. i hope so :) 08:08:43 <_6502_> beach: you're 100% right... i'm still booting up :-) 08:09:20 <_6502_> beach: no... i'm just trying to understand how namespaces work in lisp... i'm used to python so I find it a bit strange 08:09:32 _6502_, once again, don't :use a package you don't know/trust, :import-from it. 08:09:46 Fare: I recall someone talking about getting a "blessing" regarding CLtL3 from copyright holders of CLtL2, with official CLtL3 we could have real-world foothold into modifying standard (which would certainly lead to MOP inclusion, IMHO) 08:10:09 beach: maybe I live in hot weather, so now I'm interested in to try the cold one.. to feel how it is :) 08:10:21 p_l|uni, please don't use "we" without a signed power of attorney. 08:10:39 <_6502_> fare: yes... now I understood. still looks to me that listing all names i want to use is annoying 08:10:54 _6502_: JUST WRITE SOME CODE 08:11:07 _6502_: i can tell what else is annoying 08:11:18 _6502_: but nobody here wants to know 08:11:27 Fare: sorry, translation-related error 08:11:49 <_6502_> schmrkc: that's what i was trying to do :-) ... it's a chess tournament pairing program, where i wanted to name "round" a chess tournament round object 08:12:00 *p_l|uni* still gets those despite so many years spent learning english. Even worse when he is sleepy 08:12:21 _6502_: chess-tournament-round is up for grabs! 08:13:04 _6502_: So name it something else. 08:13:24 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 08:13:48 _6502_: just imagine that next thing you'll need for your chess tournament is voting rounds 08:14:10 baley [~baley@87.229.24.201] has joined #lisp 08:14:22 _6502_: or elimination rounds, or any of them other kinds of rounds 08:14:26 ... make a package that doesn't import :CL ? 08:14:27 <_6502_> schmrkc: i used another name (multiple-value-bind) but apparently that's also forbidden :-D 08:14:45 ... 08:14:52 instead of ROUND you named your thing M-V-P ? 08:15:21 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-164-244.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:15:34 uhm. 08:15:39 obvious troll is obvious. 08:16:18 trolling is not trolling if the involved parties are having fun 08:16:26 (besides the troll) 08:16:32 <_6502_> jdz: round is a list of pairings and some extra info, and rarely in chess they're direct elimination (the standard system is a swiss one, where every player plays the same number of games even if they lose all of them) 08:16:41 jdz, good point. 08:17:06 _6502_: so, in your world, the only thing that can be named "round" is chess round? 08:17:24 and only in lisp is name collision a problem. 08:17:34 <_6502_> jdz: no... but in my package (a chess tournament pairing computation package) it could be 08:17:49 _6502_: but it could also be not... 08:17:52 _6502_: just name it chess-tournament-round-used-in-my-cool-chess-game like a normal lisper would. 08:18:02 _6502_: so what will you do when you have another "round" thing? 08:18:24 splittist [~John@84-182.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 08:18:27 morning 08:20:13 i've heard there's this kind of sports named "chess boxing" (or "boxing chess") 08:20:44 that would be an impossible thing for _6502_ to implement a program for 08:21:51 *splittist* wonders what he's stumbled into 08:22:01 trolling 08:22:16 <_6502_> jdz: i was not trying to troll, i just bumped into this strange fact that I cannot redefine a name in my package unless i explictly say i'm shadowing it so I realized i don't understand how one is supposed to work to avoid name clashes in lisp 08:22:45 _6502_: you're not trying to redefine a name in *your* package, you're trying to redefine a name in common-lisp package 08:23:20 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-119.vpn.helsinki.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:23:37 _6502_: and the multiple-value-bind thing proves you're trying to troll 08:23:43 we here like trolls 08:24:01 <_6502_> jdz: hmmm... defstruct after in-package still is trying to modify common-lisp ? 08:24:05 they're kinda cute little sorry beings 08:24:40 no, not defstruct, it's *you* 08:24:47 _6502_: What is there to understand? Just rename you gunk. 08:24:52 <_6502_> jdz: that was supposed to be a joke... of course i can find other names instead of "round" ... but is this the general solution ? avoid all already taken name ? 08:25:06 <_6502_> name=names 08:25:26 _6502_: just accept it, you'll never be able to name your struct "T" 08:25:45 CL:T, to be precise 08:25:53 _6502_: the solution is shadow or pick another name. it is not rocket science. 08:26:48 and it leads to nicer to understand code 08:26:56 chess-tournament-round is so much better than round. 08:27:00 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:27:10 Fare: still, there *is* some possibility of getting certain things standardized, I hope. Though I'll admit that the way it is, it's somewhat unclear to me how it should proceed... 08:27:19 <_6502_> schmrkc: now i understodd that either i must shadow (that requires knowing all used names), avoid (that requires knowing all used names) or list all names I know and explicitly import them 08:27:33 schmrkc: i'd probably go for chess-tournament:round (and shadow) 08:27:50 _6502_: or you just write code and that one time this problem actually pops up you solve it. 08:28:08 jdz: chess-tournament::round even ;) 08:28:24 schmrkc: right 08:28:45 _6502_: If this is the biggest problem you ever have with lisp then things are awesome. 08:30:09 minion: memo for flip214 on Apple ][, there was a lisp called plisp. You can get it at http://www.flownet.com/ron/plisp.html 08:30:10 httpwww.flownet.comronplisp.html: i like lisp... i'm written in it 08:30:17 minion: memo for flip214: on Apple ][, there was a lisp called plisp. You can get it at http://www.flownet.com/ron/plisp.html 08:30:17 Remembered. I'll tell flip214 when he/she/it next speaks. 08:31:51 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 08:32:23 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:32:41 tcr [~tcr@77-21-209-90-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:32:58 <_6502_> schmrkc: i think there are a few problems with lisp ... and while i find this approach to namespaces annoying it's surely not the biggest one 08:33:05 -!- Soulman1 [~knute@159.80-202-237.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:33:42 _6502_: uhh, i'm very curious now, what's the biggest one? 08:34:16 *p_l|uni* things we need conduits/hierarchical hacks ported to more implementations 08:34:24 Soulman1 [~knute@159.80-202-237.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 08:34:26 <_6502_> jdz: the biggest one is probably the attitude of lispers (you gunk) 08:35:10 Hello splittist! 08:35:11 _6502_: right. it's *our* attitude, when you've been provided the solution to your problem all the waaaaay up in the scroolback 08:35:13 <_6502_> jdz: but another one is common lisp... that is big but none the less lacking elementary things (e.g. splitting a string) 08:35:36 _6502_: You could just stop using it and go troll #ruby or something. 08:35:47 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:35:51 _6502_: here we go again... how do you spilt a string in C? 08:36:11 I can't believe you are still at it! 08:36:24 beach: no worries, i'm dropping it 08:36:44 beach: hi! 08:36:48 -!- xan_ [~xan@p5168-ipngn2901marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:36:51 6502: See alexandria, etc. 08:37:24 <_6502_> jdz: hmmm... indeed i was comparing lisp to python; comparing to C it's a much easier battle (except for the speed may be) 08:37:26 but i still wonder, why people want elementary things from the language (which they can write in 10 lines of code), but not the hard stuff (like, condition system, macros, or object system)... 08:38:12 xan_ [~xan@p5168-ipngn2901marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:38:16 6502: Tell you what, I'll give you a sensible argument -- "How do you add a new sequence type in portable CL?" 08:39:30 _6502_: there is a simple solution to your problem. 08:40:10 _6502_: since you don't want to shadow the symbol, and you don't want to avoid it, and you don't want to list all the other symbols you use, and since I assume you type your symbol round in low case, 08:40:29 _6502_: you could evaluate (setf (readtable-case *readtable*) :preserve) 08:40:44 _6502_: and then round would be read as |round| instead of |CL|:|ROUND|. 08:41:04 _6502_: Of course, that would mean that you will have to upcase all the symbols from CL you use. 08:41:15 _6502_: but this is not dramatic, it would look like Module-2. 08:41:24 It's actually nice. 08:41:34 pjb: with an added benefit of learning the symbols from CL package really fast :) 08:41:49 <_6502_> pjb: that's a good idea... i'll give it a try 08:41:56 (DEFUN round (player) (IF (EQL player 'black) (do-something-black player) (do-something-white player))) 08:42:07 zmacs had a mode for this 08:42:20 (do-something (color-player color)) :) 08:42:27 Perhaps people who find faults and warts with the language by day one is simply more tuned for some other language. When I first started with CL I was pretty much amazed by just about everything, from DISASSEMBLE to keywords, to hotswapping, etc. do you older lispers really had that feeling of "faults" when you begun? 08:43:01 hypno: I think that you need to know a language in order to see its faults well. 08:43:05 hypno: what do you mean? 08:43:13 CL has no fault. 08:43:27 i personally were not thinking about faults: everything that did not work the way i expected i treated as my own lack of understanding 08:43:31 hypno: If someone says that they love C, for example, I can immediately assume that they don't know C properly. 08:43:44 pjb: :) 08:43:57 hypno: So I ask them my favourite C question "char a[3]; what is the type of a?". :) 08:44:11 hypno: if you look at the cll history of a given lisper (eg. me), you might notice indeed a changing pattern in the posts. 08:44:18 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441951.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:44:26 hypno: or unfortunately for some (such as gavino) no change at all :-( 08:44:35 <_6502_> jdz: i love lisp for those things, and I even implemented my toy lisp interpreter and compiler to try to better understand implications... but now i was trying to actually use common lisp and namespace issues looked somewhat annoying 08:44:36 (but he's not a lisper). 08:44:44 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Changing host] 08:44:44 tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #lisp 08:44:55 Zhivago: precisly. which is why i find it odd that people pass judgement so fast. it's like "i'm gonna learn this language, but i'm sure as shit gonna find all the flaws /first/!" 08:45:21 _6502_: you may choose also another setting. 08:45:23 clhs readtable-case 08:45:24 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_rdtabl.htm 08:45:24 The main thing that annoys me with CL is its lack of genericity in its core components, along with some type system stupidities. 08:45:48 (Why is bignum a type?) 08:45:48 Zhivago: which can be trivially resolved with a defpackage :GENERIC-CL ... 08:45:57 pjb: Except that it can't. 08:46:14 pjb: If you could cause subsequently loaded packages to implicitly use that, then it might. 08:46:21 The genericity of its core component. 08:46:23 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:46:29 Zhivago: you can. Check code in by IBCL. 08:46:32 pjb: So whatever genericity you extend is limited to whatever explicitly uses those. 08:46:59 Portably? 08:47:02 Yes. 08:47:16 <_6502_> zhivago: yeah... but probably the reasons are performance and/or historical 08:47:41 Zhivago: http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/small-cl-pgms/ibcl/ibcl.lisp 08:47:42 Strings being vectors of characters is another annoyance. 08:48:05 Fare: hello. 08:48:07 <_6502_> zhivago: why that's annoying ? 08:48:09 Zhivago: the point is usually, defpackage forms are written with an unqualified symbol. 08:48:20 Zhivago: therefore you can shadow it and do your magick. 08:48:33 Zhivago: it would fail on (|CL|:|DEFPACKAGE| ...) 08:48:43 <_6502_> zhivago: i only find the standard syntax somewhat clumsy for strings (e.g. (concatenate 'string ... ) is just hideous) 08:48:56 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:49:04 Zhivago: I'm not quite sure what the point was with your C example. Did you expect people to think of a pointer instead of an array or what is the problem with the type? 08:49:08 _6502_: (defun c (&rest args) (apply (function concatenate) 'string args)) 08:49:17 _6502_: (c "hello" " " "world" "!") 08:49:31 p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 08:49:33 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has joined #lisp 08:49:36 <_6502_> pjb: i named it "string+" ... but i meant the STANDARD syntax is hideous 08:49:43 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633486.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 08:49:54 _6502_: you're not reached enlightment yet. 08:50:06 *sigh* 08:50:07 _6502_: the standard syntax is homogeneous and homoiconic! 08:50:25 and doesn't require indentation to actually work 08:50:41 *beach* writes some more tests. 08:50:50 pjb: How does that patch (cl:defpackage ...) ? 08:51:05 Zhivago: it does not. 08:51:07 hypno: Almost everyone who likes C gets it wrong. 08:51:14 Zhivago: It paches (defpackage ...) 08:51:16 Ok, then it doesn't solve the problem, really. 08:51:26 <_6502_> pjb: string+ syntax is not ? 08:51:32 Zhivago: count how many cl:defpackage there is in lisp code! 08:51:39 _6502_: yes too. 08:51:44 Enough to be annoying, but ok. 08:52:24 lispm [~joswig@f054054154.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:52:40 visit the Land of Lisp! 08:52:48 beach: what are you working on at the moment? 08:52:57 lispm: is it out yet? 08:53:20 http://landoflisp.com 08:53:34 The PDF version is out now. 08:53:55 xinming [~hyy@115.223.129.214] has joined #lisp 08:54:04 View the music video and read the comic. 08:57:39 -!- _6502_ [5895bdc9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.149.189.201] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:57:59 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:58:23 pjb: http://codesearch.google.com/codesearch?as_q=cl:defpackage&btnG=Search+Code&hl=en&as_package=&as_lang=lisp&as_filename=&as_class=&as_function=&as_license=&as_case= 08:58:53 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:59:49 "balance weasels on a rake"! 09:00:17 hi lispm is that your book? 09:00:31 no, from Conrad Barski 09:00:34 lispm: great video! :-) 09:00:36 DrCode 09:00:53 also see the comic and click on the blinking text 09:00:53 ROTFL @ Land of Lisp comic 09:00:59 it is so well done 09:01:16 really really beautiful 09:01:41 Genosh [~Genosh@193.153.54.47] has joined #lisp 09:01:42 Zhivago: yes there are some cl:defpackage. It's because their authors have not been enlighted enough yet. 09:02:08 It's ultra-cheezy, and with such good humour you can't help but smile. (Well, haters gonna hate, but...) 09:02:29 i wanna write a book too 09:02:31 someday 09:03:23 dto, that would be nice... 09:03:24 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has joined #lisp 09:03:24 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 09:03:30 a series of game books... 09:04:25 dto: I think what we've learnt from giga and Conrad is that the earlier one starts on writing a book, the greater the chance of it actually being finished before the heat-death of the universe. Just don't use Duke Nukem as a model... 09:04:43 Hey, Duke Nukem made someone a lot of money. 09:04:44 hah 09:04:45 lol 09:04:53 *splittist* wonders if the 'heat death' reference dates him... 09:04:57 well i'm afraid to do anything that might distract from programming 09:04:59 splittist: nah i got it 09:05:03 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-24-28-30-165.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: I'm big in Japan] 09:05:17 DNF has premiere few centuries after heat-death 09:05:43 it's an exclusive event at the restaurant at the end of time :) 09:05:45 A good time to ask... what software would you use to write a book? 09:05:59 Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 09:06:05 Genosh: Emacs, Org-Mode, LaTeX 09:06:08 tex, latex 09:06:17 Or technical documentation that requires snippets in it, for that matter. 09:06:31 again tex,latex 09:07:07 Genosh: I'd look at org babel (or whatever one calls it) 09:07:08 In some cases I might go with DocBook, but I'd probably use Org-Mode to generate it as well 09:07:23 have you ever seen how beatiful the books written with them look ? 09:07:55 LaTeX output is pretty, although LaTeX itself is a bit awkward to use. 09:07:58 computer modern font on your CV is also a good thing :P 09:08:01 splittist: that reference could date your carbon 09:08:14 cmm: heh 09:08:30 go with auctex or so 09:09:12 now that reminds me, it's time to order that new book! 09:09:47 homie: thanks. It seems there is an Emacs package for just about everything. 09:09:54 jep 09:09:56 lol 09:09:58 Genosh: depends. i default to pen and paper these days. if it has to be typed in use whatever is most comfortable. latex comes with a high initial cost imo, and i fucking hate the language itself, but good output at least. 09:10:01 there are many really 09:10:14 p_l|uni: i would use org as well 09:10:26 splittist: Writing tests for the conses-high SICL module. 09:10:37 dto: given that you wrote one of the tutorials I used, it's no surprise for me :D 09:10:39 I must admit i've been using abiword and copy/pasting the snippets. 09:10:43 p_l|uni: haha 09:11:26 ams layout, try 09:11:27 lol 09:11:28 though I wonder how a modern Emacs would look like 09:11:42 Genosh: if you are on a mac, then Bean is actually a very nice wordprocessor too. OSX also comes with a ton of math symbols so you can get to work very quickly that way. 09:11:44 *cmm* wonders whether to get another paper book or give up and order a kindle while he's at it 09:12:00 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 09:12:56 Joreji_ [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 09:13:16 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Client Quit] 09:14:02 ah asm not ams i think 09:14:05 guh 09:14:17 lispm: "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later." some time after clicking on the throwbing text. 09:15:28 hypno: I'm on windows. For most practical purposes Abiword is fine and can export HTML but i guess i'll try the auctex package. 09:16:22 beach: I see. Is the naming-convention for the specialised functions documented anywhere, or is it so regular as to be obvious? 09:16:27 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 09:18:16 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:18:42 splittist: Not documented (yet). Should be obvious. Also, I came up with it recently, so it is not uniformly implemented yet. 09:19:19 beach: fair enough. I thought it looked really useful. 09:20:36 splittist: What is not obvious is what special versions exist and why. For instance, I don't see any use for a function that specialized remove with a :test-not of eql or eq, bicause that one is just going to return N copies of the argument. 09:21:49 Am I the only one having trouble connecting to landoflisp.com? 09:22:08 beach: perhaps it's #lisp-dotted? 09:22:14 Indeed. 09:22:49 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 09:23:30 beach: i can't connect, too. 09:23:50 jdz: Thanks. I'll try again later then. 09:24:17 beach: a giant table of functions with keywords/specialisations might be interesting to look at - what is specified, what is/isn't worth specialising etc. (And perhaps what other implementations do could be added by interested folks) 09:24:19 it would of course be cool if it was down just because of sudden popularity 09:25:37 splittist: That's a good idea. Though right now, I am trying to finish one module and get it out the door. It looks like it will be the conses-high module. I need to put off other stuff. 09:26:16 beach: yes - feel free to finish off my assignments later (; 09:26:25 splittist: Thanks! :) 09:27:23 splittist: And even so, there are things to modify in that module that I changed my mind about lately. Now I think I have found a way of giving accurate error messages about what standard function detected a problem, which I thought would be impossible before (because standard functions might call other standard functions). 09:28:45 Ooh! 09:30:47 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 09:31:19 splittist: There are some other decisions to be made. For instance, it would be good to include a file containing docstrings for each module, but then I still want to have all docstrings as a particular module, but of course I need to avoid code duplication. I need to figure out the best way of doing that. 09:32:51 parse the file upon load and issue the appropriate (setf (function-documentation ...) ...) incantations? 09:32:59 beach: so CONSES-DOCSTRINGS are available as part of the CONSES module, but also available as part of a BETTER-DOCSTRINGS module? 09:33:05 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.82.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:35:16 splittist: right! 09:36:55 cmm: It is more a problem of generating the modules. I probably need some code to collect all docstring files from each individual module and assemble them into the docstrings module. 09:41:23 Does slime have any refactoring tools? Like renaming a variable? 09:42:59 yakov [~yzaytsev@183.49.62.92.nienschanz.ru] has joined #lisp 09:43:33 slime-query-replace-system 09:43:36 _6502_ [5895bdc9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.149.189.201] has joined #lisp 09:43:42 tcr: thanks 09:44:46 <_6502_> is there a way to export a struct from a package at once (i mean to avoid exporting explicitly make-foo foo-x foo-y foo-z ...) ? 09:44:47 tcr: but that works at the textual rather than the semantic (?) level - it won't differentiate between a use of the variable at the top level and a use that has been shadowed by a LET form, for example. [This is meant to be a question.] 09:45:29 You don't export structs -- you export symbol names. 09:46:00 <_6502_> zhivago: ok.. to export all symbols defined by defstruct ? 09:46:09 You could use do-symbols or some-such. 09:46:20 it's all we got 09:46:26 Why do you want to export so many accessors? 09:46:44 tcr: sure - some user attention required (: 09:47:02 sabalaba [~sabalaba@114.246.149.219] has joined #lisp 09:48:12 _6502_: There's a slime command which does it 09:48:25 look into contrib/slime-package-fu.el 09:50:43 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:52:14 bulters [~jeroen@vps659.directvps.nl] has joined #lisp 09:54:54 *splittist* [pre]orders the Land of Lisp dead tree version 09:56:52 splittist: looks cool 09:57:17 -!- _6502_ [5895bdc9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.149.189.201] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:58:09 by Conrad Barski, M.D. ...is that like House M.D.? :) 09:59:06 mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has joined #lisp 09:59:12 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has quit [Changing host] 09:59:12 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 09:59:33 he is an actual M.D., yes, if that's what you are asking 09:59:37 cYmen: I don't think he's an English piano-playing comic actor, though 09:59:45 Better than a B.S.S. 09:59:54 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 10:00:43 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 10:01:37 pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has joined #lisp 10:01:44 splittist: I don't get it. 10:02:55 cYmen: Hugh Laurie, who plays House, is an English etc. etc. 10:03:09 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.61.65] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:03:33 I have no knowledge of whether he prefers Common Lisp or Clojure, though. 10:04:54 I preferred him in Black Adder, I think. 10:05:15 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@114.246.149.219] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:05:58 Zhivago: I think his Blackadder character(s) was definitely an Arc man 10:07:41 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 10:14:51 how do i get #'format not to print out the package name when printing the name of a symbol? 10:15:37 "Copyright (c) 2011 by Conrad Barski M.D." - It's a message from the Future! 10:16:17 dto: Use ~a 10:16:56 dto: how do you get format to print the package? 10:16:56 flip214, memo from pjb: on Apple ][, there was a lisp called plisp. You can get it at http://www.flownet.com/ron/plisp.html 10:17:12 flip214: By using ~s. 10:17:18 pjb: thanks ;-) 10:17:24 beach: thank you 10:17:35 thanks Beach 10:17:38 and friends 10:21:05 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:22:34 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-157-11.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 10:22:39 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 10:23:14 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:27:30 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 10:32:01 Yuuhi [benni@p5483A34B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:34:23 hi. 10:34:55 hello zoskia 10:39:38 -!- Genosh [~Genosh@193.153.54.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:44:18 ~S generally won't do it if *PACKAGE* is the same package as the symbol. 10:44:31 binding *PACKAGE* to the keyword package will make it print the package prefix always. 10:44:56 Genosh [~Genosh@193.153.54.47] has joined #lisp 10:44:57 True, that. 10:48:45 -!- xan_ [~xan@p5168-ipngn2901marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:50:12 xan_ [~xan@p5168-ipngn2901marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:51:01 Well, unless it's a keyword. 10:51:22 pjb: actually, even if it's a keyword. 10:52:18 (let ((*package* (find-package "KEYWORD"))) (format t "~S" :keyword)) --> :KEYWORD ; instead of KEYWORD:KEYWORD 10:52:19 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:53:32 pjb: True - but I was considering a bare #\: to be the package prefix for the keyword package. (As opposed to printing "KEYWORD") 10:53:38 -!- antivigilante [~antivigil@wsip-70-166-115-251.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:53:59 Land of Lisp is online again 10:55:12 -!- tltstc [~tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: tltstc] 10:56:03 recovered from #lisp-dotting? 10:56:21 pjb: although I concede that the CLHS glossary entry for 'package prefix' does not support me (: 10:56:23 jeti [~user@p548EB833.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:00:10 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:03:02 Am I correct in thinking that the effect of typing "keyword:foo" at the repl should be the same as typing ":foo" (assuming standard io-syntax and "FOO" not yet being the name of a symbol in the KEYWORD package)? 11:03:21 (obviously not including the #\"s) 11:06:00 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 11:06:55 Yes. 11:07:02 (eql 'keyword:x :x) 11:10:02 OK. abcl does not do have this behaviour. (Reversing the arguments works i.e. doesn't give rise to a reader error, which gives some insight into the algorithm used there...) 11:11:24 The keyword package is special, all symbols are deemed pre-existing in keyword. 11:13:14 http://dtogameblog.blogspot.com/2010/10/spreadsheet-editing-of-xiobeat-dance.html 11:13:27 more lispy images 11:13:39 wait until i have a live camera feed behind this 11:14:22 -!- lispm [~joswig@f054054154.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:16:48 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 11:18:54 lispm [~joswig@g224046156.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:19:11 -!- azza [Aaronl@123-3-71-244.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has quit [] 11:21:30 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-138-74.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:24:24 splittist: clisp barfs with keyword:xx 11:24:35 pmd: not here. 11:25:38 pjb: you must test keyword: 11:25:39 But I use slime. 11:25:44 Yes. 11:25:49 so if you type :xx then keyword:xx, it'll work 11:25:52 Slime must intern things itself. 11:25:52 i used slime too 11:25:59 and it barfed 11:26:22 Right. 11:26:35 win32 2.49 11:26:43 ccl, ecl, and sbcl are correct. 11:26:46 2.48, that is... 11:26:54 Indeed, clisp has a bug here. 11:27:07 pmd: when you say barfed, you mean a reader error for XX not in KEYWORD package? 11:27:26 # has no external symbol with name "X" 11:27:41 splittist: 11:28:00 But keyword::kdasjk works ok in clisp. 11:28:02 KEYWORD> has no external symbol with name "XPSF" 11:28:09 The problem seems to be that clisp doesn't export keywords. 11:28:17 (having trouble copy-pasting) 11:29:21 pjb: true, and abcl too 11:29:29 same thing with abcl: (eql 'keyword::|not here| :|not here|) => T 11:30:33 (eql 'keyword::xx 'keyword:xx) ok ; (eql 'keyword::xx 'keyword:xx) fails :-( 11:31:12 splittist: that doesn't mean much. first, you shouldn't quote keyword::|not here|. second, by the time eql (or eq) does its thing, :|not here| has been read and with it its side effects 11:34:33 pmd: the EQL is neither here nor there, true. It's about the left to right evaluation of args, which is why (eql :barx keyword:barx) 'works', and (eql keyword:barxy :barxy) 'doesn't'. 11:34:51 right 11:35:48 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-61-90-102-153.revip.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:36:37 Well, section 2.3.5 has clear rules about p:s vs. p::s, so it looks like clisp is correct here. And this was already reported as a bug: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2166948&group_id=1355&atid=101355 11:36:43 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 11:36:59 But what pjb is pointing out is that it seems to be the second step in the description of the KEYWORD type in the hyperspec that is being missed ("Interning a symbol in the KEYWORD pakckage has three automatic effects: ... 2. It causes the symbol to become an external symbol of the KEYWORD package.") 11:37:34 p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 11:37:58 But this is only when the keyword is interned. 2.3.5 specifies when a symbol is interned, and when you write p:s it is not interned. 11:38:28 So you have to write keyword::k if you want to have it interned in the case it doesn't already exist. 11:38:45 pjb: Aha! I was looking for when a symbol was interned. Thanks! 11:42:46 so, abcl and clisp are the only ones that got it right 11:42:55 Yes. 11:42:58 hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-11-13-192.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 11:43:09 Once again clisp proves to be superior! :-) 11:43:35 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:43:54 pjb: I'll remmber that next time someone asks about sbcl's treatment of DEFCONSTANT or top-level SETQ (: 11:46:23 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:46:27 2.3.5 says "A summary of rules concerning package markers follows" etc. etc. Is there anywhere else this is spelled out? (2.3.4 is all about tokens without package markers...) 11:47:05 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-138-74.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 11:49:34 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-138-74.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:49:55 splittist: I don't think so. :-) 11:50:33 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-164-244.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:50:44 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:50:49 Perhaps there was once, and it has been removed to avoid ambiguity? 11:52:58 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:54:24 -!- zoskia [zoskia@unaffiliated/zoskia] has quit [Quit: Connection reset by peer] 11:59:14 pjb: CLtL2 11.3 is (as usual) a bit clearer: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/cltl/clm/node114.html 11:59:51 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-64-227.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 12:01:31 Notice that #\: could have been a reader macro to read keywords. I don't know why it has not been specified that way... 12:02:47 :x and #:x are read in fundamentally different ways. 12:03:16 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@71.16.32.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:03:48 drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 12:04:47 the reader could be a lot more flexible than it is - which is already extremely flexible compared to other languages, of course (: 12:06:54 So, we have my reader, beach sicl reader, and of course the various free implementation readers (which would need to be extracted in a library). 12:07:23 I think that any need for extensions and flexibility is covered :-) 12:07:26 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.54.178] has joined #lisp 12:07:38 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:08:50 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:11:07 well, then there's the matter of READ returning multiple values, adding metadata to tokens etc... 12:12:16 But, yes, with multiple readers, code-walkers, cps-transformers etc. the common lisp programmer is given more than enough heavy ammunition to shoot as many appendages as he or she wishes! 12:13:03 -!- housel [~user@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:13:23 Why would someone ever call SUBST with a :test-not of #'eq or #'eql? 12:13:57 -!- Lycurgus [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Exeunt IRC] 12:15:02 For subst, something similar? 12:16:01 beach: to 'zero out' the tree? 12:16:13 For example: (subst 'f 't diff-tree :test-not (function eql)) 12:17:32 pjb: for any tree that has a cons on the toplevel, the result of that is F. 12:19:55 Indeed, I didn't realize that. 12:20:17 So if olditem is not a cons, then only the root of the tree is ever examined, which doesn't seem very useful. 12:20:31 So therefore, for it to be useful, olditem must be a cons. 12:20:45 Or the function must not be eql or eq. 12:21:10 Right, I was asking specifically for :test-not of #'eq or #'eql. 12:21:49 mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has joined #lisp 12:21:49 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has quit [Changing host] 12:21:49 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 12:22:02 beach: a nice compiler macro can be written to deal with this case :-) 12:22:04 -!- maus [~maus@1.139.39-62.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Quit: Bye bye!] 12:23:07 It's a sort of ENSURE-SUBTREE 12:26:20 housel [~user@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 12:27:06 And if olditem is a cons, if the root of the tree is not equal to it, then the result is always newitem. And if olditem is eq to the root of the tree, either every other cons in the tree is not equal to olditem, or else we have a circular structure. If every other cons is not equal, then the result is (cons newitem newitem). And if we have a circular structure, I suppose the result is undefined (even though I can't see where it s 12:27:06 that). 12:27:09 LiamH [~none@132.250.138.103] has joined #lisp 12:28:07 More exactly, with circular structure, it would be implementation dependant whether it finishes. 12:30:43 (subst 'x tree tree :test-not (function eql)) gives x or (x . x) depending on whether tree is an atom or a cons. 12:30:43 12:30:43 12:30:48 Well, you can always make this case finish. You check whether the car or the cdr of the root is eq to the root. If so, don't touch it. If not, replace it with newitem. 12:31:18 chaslemley [~chaslemle@h201.48.90.75.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 12:31:21 Yes, but it's not required by clhs. It would be nice. 12:32:10 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has joined #lisp 12:32:13 pjb: It could be #1=(#1# . x) and #1=(x . #1#) and #1=(#1# . #1#) too. 12:32:35 Yes. 12:34:09 Anyway, thanks! I conclude that I should remove those special cases from SICL! :) 12:34:15 So for :test-not 'eql, we have three cases. 'x atom atom --> atom ; 'x cons cons --> (x . x) ; 'x a b --> x 12:35:46 and indeed, in the case 'x cons cons if it's a circular structure, we may return a copy of the circular structure. 12:36:29 Or the structure itself if it is circular both in car and cdr. 12:36:46 No, because subst must return a copy. nsubst could return the structure itself. 12:37:30 "If no changes are made, the original tree may be returned" 12:37:49 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:37:54 Ah indeed. 12:39:56 colbseton` [~colbseton@AClermont-Ferrand-156-1-90-43.w86-206.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:40:48 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-138-74.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 12:42:01 p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 12:42:20 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:43:14 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:44:29 pdo [~pdo@217.33.254.141] has joined #lisp 12:46:43 dlowe [~dlowe@c-76-24-31-68.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:48:16 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:48:33 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 12:48:44 -!- chaslemley [~chaslemle@h201.48.90.75.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:49:00 -!- mulander_ [mulander@078088239019.lubin.vectranet.pl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:49:44 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-lptcpxnyksdtbjlt] has left #lisp 12:50:17 Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:50:45 antivigilante [~antivigil@63-225-195-196.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 12:51:49 urandom__ [~user@p548A6EB7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:52:25 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-76-24-31-68.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:53:31 -!- abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:56:53 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:58:22 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:59:22 mulander [mulander@078088239019.lubin.vectranet.pl] has joined #lisp 13:01:55 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-138-74.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:02:12 I managed to blow up sbcl, cant slime-connect anymore.. I was just compiling forms and got heap exhaustion. 13:03:05 the poor heap :( 13:03:59 Xach: thanks for your ILC writeups 13:05:34 vu3rdd` [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 13:06:21 phrixos [~Phrixos@bs0176.nerc-bas.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:06:34 splittist: no problem. more to come, too. 13:08:19 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:08:38 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:09:11 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has joined #lisp 13:09:12 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 13:09:55 gz_ [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 13:10:09 -!- antivigilante [~antivigil@63-225-195-196.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 13:12:38 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-138-74.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:15:34 murilasso [~murilasso@189.103.20.140] has joined #lisp 13:15:45 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 13:15:53 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 13:17:34 -!- yakov [~yzaytsev@183.49.62.92.nienschanz.ru] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 13:18:03 great I can reproduce the heap explosion, time to debug :) 13:19:38 -!- necroforest [~jarred@pool-108-18-226-169.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:22:37 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 13:22:57 jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.42.175] has joined #lisp 13:23:06 Hi all. 13:24:46 In CFFI, it seems that the :pointer type CFFI provides is a little small for a certain pointer type I have in the C library. 13:25:24 what C library ? 13:25:34 libsndfile 13:26:05 that is, there is a type in C, namely off_t 13:26:06 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 13:26:15 and that is used for a pointer address 13:26:30 that's stupid 13:26:38 but, an off_t is the size of a long long. 13:26:44 not necessarily 13:26:54 yeo 13:26:55 yep 13:27:03 but it is in this case. 13:27:25 anyway, what's the problem ? 13:27:34 *_3b* thought off_t was difference between pointers, not a pointer type 13:27:49 _3b: ptrdiff_t. 13:27:54 apathor [~mike@c-24-218-104-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:28:06 <_3b> ah, shows how long since i've done C coding :) 13:28:09 hmm... I don't really know all that much about off_t 13:28:33 Anyhow, 13:29:00 A struct I define needs an offset in order to work, so the pointer in it is too small? 13:29:08 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:29:42 -!- gz_ [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has left #lisp 13:29:51 jtza8: you want to store an off_t into a pointer ? 13:30:21 <_3b> ah, i guess offf_t is supposed to be file positions? 13:30:26 _3b: yes 13:31:27 This is the case: 13:31:30 typedef off_t sf_count_t ; 13:31:46 sf_count_t is a pointer... or I'm wrong... 13:31:53 ... 13:31:55 em 13:31:57 I mean 13:32:10 sf_count_t is used as a pointer type. 13:32:16 <_3b> possibly you should be using cffi-grovel or something to ask your c compiler how big types are? 13:32:32 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:32:36 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:32:56 Oh well, thanks all... I'll be doing some reading. 13:33:31 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:33:32 jtza8: where is sf_count_t used as a pointer type in sndfile? it looks to me like it's always used as one would expect, as a count. 13:33:36 off_t isn't a pointer type. If you paste the C definition of the struct and your translation, someone might be able to understand what you're try to do. 13:34:05 kushal [~kdas@114.143.162.135] has joined #lisp 13:34:10 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.162.135] has quit [Changing host] 13:34:10 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 13:34:33 -!- vu3rdd` [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:35:08 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:35:11 tsuru [~charlie@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:35:13 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 13:35:57 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:37:55 -!- phrixos [~Phrixos@bs0176.nerc-bas.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 13:38:06 -!- apathor [~mike@c-24-218-104-57.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 13:38:27 Here's how the code looks for all those that are interested. 13:38:38 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-25-78.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:39:02 http://paste.lisp.org/+2HGV 13:39:32 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-eoasgukbhmamcaxs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:40:18 frames isn't a pointer. 13:40:24 jtza8: frames isn't a pointer 13:40:36 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 13:41:45 sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:42:37 jtza8: use :int64 13:42:59 or use cffi-grovel to define the struct 13:43:21 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:46:04 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:46:24 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:48:08 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-208-169.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:48:38 -!- jeti [~user@p548EB833.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 13:55:09 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@e194-194.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 13:57:42 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.61.65] has joined #lisp 14:00:22 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@e194-194.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 14:00:47 cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.82.56] has joined #lisp 14:01:04 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-4-197.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:01:19 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 14:01:22 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-76-168.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:04:05 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:04:49 iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@116.201.186.56] has joined #lisp 14:06:35 HerrBlume [~user@62.96.71.161] has joined #lisp 14:08:04 -!- iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@116.201.186.56] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:09:37 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-157-11.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:10:03 -!- symbole [~user@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:10:28 Hello, I am using postgres 8.1 with clsql 14:10:52 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:11:06 p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 14:11:23 The socket interface works find, but the libpq doesn't 14:11:24 *splittist* wonders if the answer will be postmodern? 14:11:43 mejalx [~mejalx@173.230.135.121] has joined #lisp 14:12:02 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 14:12:04 splittist: maybe, but i have no choice 14:12:12 why ? 14:12:19 Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:12:44 No postgres tcp port, maybe? 14:13:15 <_8david> Xach: wouldn't that cause the opposite failure mode? 14:13:28 _8david: i mean, maybe using tcp isn't an option long-term or in production. 14:13:52 Yes, I work with the socket interface, but our application server runs with the libpq interface, 14:13:58 HerrBlume: what trouble do you have with libpq? 14:14:22 HerrBlume: I don't know if I can help, unfortunately. I got occasional memory faults with libpq but the socket interface also worked fine for me. 14:14:23 Xach: accessing the database throws me in sbcl's low level debugger 14:14:41 ouch. I have no suggestions, sorry. 14:14:53 HerrBlume: with which error? 14:15:01 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.61.65] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:16:35 <_8david> if your server runs with libpq, it sounds like it worked in the past. what has changed since then? 14:17:37 chaslemley [~chaslemle@208.44.170.2] has joined #lisp 14:18:13 -!- xan_ [~xan@p5168-ipngn2901marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:18:24 tfb [~tfb@92.41.102.111.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:18:40 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-138-74.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:18:43 stassats`: * Signal 13 masked 14:18:44 fatal error encountered in SBCL pid 16079(tid 140737243945296): 14:18:44 some deferrable signals blocked, some unblocked 14:18:44 14:18:47 14:18:50 Error opening /dev/tty: No such device or address 14:18:53 Welcome to LDB, a low-level debugger for the Lisp runtime environment. 14:19:26 _8david: The server runs with libpq (most of the time) 14:19:51 jkantz [~jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 14:19:55 _8david: But my dev machine doesn't run it 14:20:06 lanthan_afh [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:20:41 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:20:58 Actually I belive it's an character encoding issue 14:22:40 On the application server postgres sometimes doesn't release row locks 14:23:02 terminating all lisp processes doesn't release the locks 14:23:25 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 14:23:26 so the current workaround is: restart postgres 14:23:31 ponce [~ponce@rps7623.ovh.net] has joined #lisp 14:24:29 OK, thanks for listening 14:24:39 -!- dnm [~dnm@c-68-34-57-169.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:27:20 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:28:37 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:29:56 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:30:27 -!- HerrBlume [~user@62.96.71.161] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:30:47 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:31:41 *Xach* is seeing a previously unseen loop in asdf's defsystem -> parse-component-form -> find-component -> find-system -> defsystem 14:31:57 HerrBlume [~user@62.96.71.161] has joined #lisp 14:32:08 but, curiously, only for some systems, and only on my new computer, which has a configuration that doesn't differ from my old one in ways that i'm fully aware of. 14:35:01 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 14:35:38 grumps [~user@c-71-194-138-249.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:02 -!- seangrove [~user@c-71-198-44-87.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:36:17 phrixos [~Phrixos@bs0176.nerc-bas.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:36:28 -!- phrixos [~Phrixos@bs0176.nerc-bas.ac.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 14:37:15 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@chello062178064156.22.11.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 14:37:23 dnm [~dnm@static-71-166-174-24.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:37:48 carlocci [~nes@93.37.204.189] has joined #lisp 14:37:57 -!- grumps [~user@c-71-194-138-249.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:42:33 nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-178-106.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 14:43:10 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:43:51 leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has joined #lisp 14:44:03 -!- Genosh [~Genosh@193.153.54.47] has quit [] 14:45:48 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 14:47:44 rukowen [~thehien@222.253.84.37] has joined #lisp 14:48:08 _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 14:54:23 hmm, anyone got sbcl 1.0.43, x86, and a few minutes to try something for me? 14:54:28 oh, and linux. 14:54:57 rukowen: Hello! How is it going? 14:55:19 Xach: I do 14:55:51 Xach: What do you want to test? 14:56:01 cmpitg: I will send you a tarball with a few files in it, just a moment 14:56:10 good evening prof. Robert 14:56:37 stuxachnet.lisp... 14:56:40 i'm finding a baseline 14:56:51 after reading file 14:56:53 rukowen: Excellent! 14:56:56 gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:57:07 -!- benny [~benny@i577A8834.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:57:31 sellout [~rooms@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:57:56 ah, how can I chat with you like this: "rukowen: beach: zzzzzzzz" 14:58:57 rukowen: I use ERC, I type the first few letters in your nick, and then I use completion with or C-i. 14:59:07 benny [~benny@i577A2AE4.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 14:59:31 beach: ahhh... i see 14:59:34 rukowen: If your IRC client doesn't have completion, you must type "beach: " yourself. 14:59:52 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-117-143.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:21 beach: My IRC allow me to use TAB 15:00:35 rukowen: It is good to do that, because my nick is highlighted whenever someone uses it, so it is easy for me to find then. 15:00:38 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:00:42 rukowen: What client are you using? 15:01:03 beach: yes, and it also raises an announcement 15:01:46 beach: I'm using Pidgin 15:03:41 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.34.168.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:04:18 -!- dborba [~dborba@pool-74-105-202-55.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:04:57 -!- tfb [~tfb@92.41.102.111.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:05:01 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:06:15 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 15:08:20 rukowen: So are you saying that you have already written the code to find a baseline, and that it works? 15:09:37 tfb [~tfb@92.41.102.111.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:09:54 beach: oh, not yet 15:09:57 :( 15:10:16 OK, sorry, I misunderstood what you said first. 15:10:40 Aha! 15:10:51 My loop problem went away when I fixed the system clock. It was two days behind. 15:11:11 I don't know why that would make a lick of difference! 15:11:39 antivigilante [~antivigil@63-225-195-196.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:11:58 ignas [~ignas@62.212.200.87] has joined #lisp 15:12:12 beach: i'm writing, it haven't been done yet 15:12:30 dborba [~dborba@pool-74-105-202-55.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:12:36 Xach: I bet you had files dated in the future which will derail dependency checking... 15:12:41 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 15:12:53 sonnym [~evissecer@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has joined #lisp 15:13:10 *splittist* realises that keyboards are designed by people whose main input device is a graphic tablet... 15:14:27 tfb: Why? 15:15:08 splittist: not always http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yg3s77nAMQ 15:15:35 -!- lispm [~joswig@g224046156.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:16:11 Xach: er... well, actually I'm not sure. If anything gets compiled then the fasl will (or may) be much older than the source file, which will screw up builds (or may) 15:16:25 but if the whole FS is in the future, I dunno 15:16:32 kenanb [~user@94.54.235.211] has joined #lisp 15:17:45 tfb: ah, ok, that makes sense. 15:17:54 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.61.65] has joined #lisp 15:18:00 tfb: thanks. 15:18:10 *Xach* must now be sure to keep his vm on time 15:18:27 gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:20:22 yakov [~yzaytsev@183.49.62.92.nienschanz.ru] has joined #lisp 15:20:22 Xach: find and touch may be your friends 15:20:53 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:21:05 "Someone" should write a patch for asdf to warn about source files in the future. 15:21:13 Hacks and glory await! 15:24:13 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has joined #lisp 15:26:25 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:26:26 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:29:09 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-119-127.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 15:29:57 tritchey [~tritchey@68.51.119.127] has joined #lisp 15:30:54 Xach: a better (more general?) test might be wrapper around COMPILE-FILE which will hava a tantrum if the output is older than the input 15:31:27 *Xach* would welcome that also 15:32:26 mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has joined #lisp 15:32:26 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has quit [Changing host] 15:32:26 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 15:33:07 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-4-197.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:33:36 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-56-167.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:33:55 -!- _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:34:15 _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 15:35:07 -!- _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:35:37 _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 15:35:43 -!- antivigilante [~antivigil@63-225-195-196.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 15:35:46 *tfb* is not volunteering however 15:36:22 antivigilante [~antivigil@63-225-195-196.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:36:36 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:37:54 <_8david> I've often seen ASDF go mad loading the same .asd and over again. It was always on Windows, but might have been less because of Windows and more because the files were sitting on a Samba server. Re-touching the files helped (...until a few minutes later anyway). Any protection against that would be cool. 15:38:51 -!- sellout [~rooms@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Rooms  iPhone IRC Client  http://www.roomsapp.mobi] 15:40:16 -!- _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:40:21 _8david, do you have a verbose log of such session? 15:40:33 just saying "it doesn't work" doesn't help 15:41:12 Fare: He did give some more specifics than that. 15:41:42 -!- antivigilante [~antivigil@63-225-195-196.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:41:44 <_8david> Fare: I promise to investigate instead of complaining next time! 15:42:06 _8david, thanks. 15:42:18 <_8david> (and it was with ASDF1; no idea whether current ASDF is affected) 15:42:20 tfb: we accept patches 15:43:04 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:43:14 Fare: I wasn't refusing, it's just that whenever else I've seen clock-skew problems the answer is "don't have clock skew" 15:43:42 that's a good *solution*, but sometimes you need help *diagnosing* the problem. 15:44:18 Use versioning rather than date. 15:44:21 clock skew is almost unavoidable if you are using NFS. 15:44:31 Zhivago, or content-based addressing 15:44:34 even when you're only using a single machine. :( 15:44:44 NFS on a single machine? 15:44:50 A single client 15:45:12 sometimes the server's clock is used, sometimes the client's clock is used. 15:46:29 solaris used to have the rather ghastly policy of mounting user home dirs over loopback /w nfs using automountd. 15:46:30 Fare: true. Do you know (my knowledge of ASDF is limited) if compile-file* can assume its input-file arg exists (ie no inferring of extensions etc is needed) 15:47:11 ahem, it is probably an error if it doesn't. 15:47:34 although, on some implementations, I suppose you might be compiling from a URL. 15:48:56 Zhivago: that's why you need to have NTP with NFS if you're using it for builds 15:49:15 sorry I meant foom... 15:49:45 Bronsa [~bronsa@host207-185-dynamic.21-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:49:58 as for inferring of extensions... might vary from implementation to implementation, but for the sake of ASDF, we don't rely on it. 15:50:26 unhappily, some implementations insist on adding a pathname where there isn't one :-/ 15:51:04 s/pathname/type/ 15:52:05 -!- Hun [~Hun@80.81.19.29] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:53:52 antivigilante [~antivigil@63-225-195-196.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:54:23 zomgbie [~jesus@212095007075.public.telering.at] has joined #lisp 15:54:43 -!- leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:55:10 konr [~user@187.106.38.106] has joined #lisp 15:55:11 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@212095007075.public.telering.at] has quit [Client Quit] 15:56:13 Land of Lisp (a second LoL!) claims that generic setters are incompatible with functional style... BUT, there could be generic state-passing updaters! 15:56:39 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@68.51.119.127] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 15:57:03 Fare: How are they incompatible?... 15:57:20 Fare: Second? There is Let over Lambda, Lisp on Lines, and perhaps more. 15:59:37 adding that to the TODO of fare-utils's. 15:59:52 sykopomp, setf has a side-effect - which is impure 16:00:11 -!- antivigilante [~antivigil@63-225-195-196.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:00:17 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.82.56] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:00:39 Fare: ah, that kind of functional style. How are generic setters any worse than any other setters, then?... 16:00:55 *beach* adds "pure" to his collection of politically-motivated terminology that is then presented as scientifically neutral. 16:01:06 -!- HerrBlume [~user@62.96.71.161] has left #lisp 16:03:06 but there could be an updatef that takes a function or macro name applied to a state, and additional arguments, and a new value, and calls the update-expander of the function or macro, with the state, new value and additional arguments 16:03:39 beach: I made it quite a ways through Shutt's dissertation, by the way. I haven't read the calculi (which is the second half), though. There's a lot more about kernel than 'just' the fexprs, although most things seem to be at least somewhat motivated by that. 16:03:39 beach: add "politically-motivated" and "scientifically" to the collection, too 16:03:53 for example, Kernel doesn't allow you to modify the 'nearest visible binding' in a lexical scope. 16:04:12 so the usual (let ((x 0)) (lambda () (incf x))) trick for counters just won't work. 16:04:25 What does it require instead? 16:04:36 sykopomp: Sounds interesting! 16:04:52 (let ((x 0) (env (get-current-environment))) (lambda () (set! env x (inc x)))) 16:05:05 Fare: would a very long backtrace help? 16:05:15 Xach: sure. paste it! 16:05:21 you need to -explicitly- capture the environment you want to side-effect, unless it's the local one -- in which case $define! does the trick without needing an explicit environment argument (like $set! does) 16:05:34 and sorry, that should be $lambda and $set! 16:06:01 Looks like the kind of thing a little static analysis could automate. 16:06:20 aifnord [~aifnord@79.133.4.112] has joined #lisp 16:06:32 I think the intent is to make sure you explicitly communicate which environment you want to side-effect. 16:06:41 I thought it was very strange in terms of lisp. 16:06:43 does he explain the choice of the semitic letter vau? 16:06:54 Fare: he has an entire appendix in his dissertation about it. 16:07:33 Fare: it is more than 3MB. I'll gzip it and put it on my site. 16:07:44 my understanding is that it boils down to wanting a greek letter (in the spirit of lambda), and vau being the precursor to our 'f' -- 'f' standing for 'form', as in 'special form' 16:07:45 "semitic"? Do you mean hebrew? 16:08:03 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:08:17 he also makes a comment in the Kernel report about how $vau is a roundabout initialism for 'special form'. 16:08:27 Fare: http://xach.com/tmp/wtf.txt.gz - I'm afraid that's a truncated version from when I interrupted the printing of the backtrace. 16:08:33 Fare: I'll try to find the full one. 16:08:50 _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 16:08:56 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:09:11 -!- _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 16:09:19 beach: it's also in Aramaic, Phoenician, Syriac etc, I think. 16:09:31 and in greek. 16:09:37 http://www.tlg.uci.edu/~opoudjis/unicode/nonattic.html see here 16:09:38 _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 16:09:43 splittist: Oh, OK. 16:10:19 anyway, this whole don't-side-effect-parent-env thing actually makes Kernel look a lot like a prototype-based language 16:11:30 -!- pdo [~pdo@217.33.254.141] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:11:34 antivigilante [~antivigil@63-225-195-196.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:11:34 so there seems to be a circular dependency in that asd trying to load something that depends on it? 16:12:32 not to sound like a broken record, but Kernel is pretty similar to Io in many ways (including its method of syntactic abstraction) -- and Io is based closely on the Actor model afaict. So I guess that means Kernel is a step forward, compared to Scheme, in implementing that model in a lisp-like language. 16:12:33 sykopomp: I look forward to your Shott tl;dr blog series (: 16:12:55 splittist: is that a 'spare us'? :P 16:12:59 of course if the .asd does a load-system from within asdf, the circularity escapes the scope of asdf's circularity detection. 16:14:16 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 16:14:19 drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 16:15:01 Fare: what's the right address for a proto-patch for ASDF (mail me it if you don;t want to type it here, I'm tfb@tfeb.org) 16:15:20 sykopomp: no, that's a 'moar plz'! 16:16:24 -!- antivigilante [~antivigil@63-225-195-196.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:21:02 Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050064106.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:22:41 Fare: the problem went away entirely when i updated the clock on the server. 16:22:45 Fare: it was two days behind. 16:23:28 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:44 Can format used to output colors if the terminal supports it? 16:23:52 +be 16:24:11 cYmen: Yes. 16:24:37 *cYmen* goes to stare at the hyperspec. 16:24:57 cYmen: it has little to do with the hyperspec. 16:25:17 (format t "~C..." #\Escape ...) 16:25:54 cYmen: see also didier verna's CLON library, which can output a variety of fruit-salad colors to the terminal for command-line documentation. 16:25:57 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:26:29 OK, I'll check it out. Thanks, Xach! 16:28:00 PCChris [~PCChris@wireless-165-124-199-238.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has joined #lisp 16:28:43 antivigilante [~antivigil@63-225-195-196.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:29:28 adeht: did nikodemus send you a dbus patch? 16:30:01 ; Lock on package ALEXANDRIA.0.DEV violated when binding EMPTYP as a local 16:30:18 *drewc* is reading 'Land of Lisp'! 16:30:52 ... Wait, /what/? Lock violated for a local binding...? 16:30:53 drewc: I just bought it but haven't started. :) 16:31:04 *Xach* wonders if it will displace Let Over Lambda for the LOL title 16:31:16 nyef: "...function." 16:31:22 Ah. 16:31:34 Surely it's binding #'EMPTYP and not EMPTYP, then? 16:32:03 astalla [~astalla@dynamic-adsl-94-36-56-19.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 16:32:05 Alls I know is the latest dbus won't build with the latest alexandria and that's the error message. 16:32:18 Xach: not that I noticed.. 16:32:20 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host207-185-dynamic.21-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:33:02 Xach: are you sure it's my dbus library and not cl-dbus? 16:33:53 Aha 16:33:57 It's not dbus at all, but iolib. 16:34:04 hmm, neither have any references to emptyp 16:34:12 *Xach* does more updates 16:35:58 -!- drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:36:46 fgump [~gauthamg@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 16:36:54 fe[nl]ix: before i delete a lot of things and start from scratch, can you tell me if iolib 0.7.3 has had an update related to this issue? 16:37:26 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 16:37:27 yes 16:37:33 Ok, thanks. 16:37:48 And if I update to iolib 0.7.3, must I also update to the latest head of CFFI? 16:38:41 I'm not sure 16:39:00 I think it should work with the released version 16:39:33 ok, thanks. i'll try and see what happens. 16:40:09 *Xach* delights in experiencing upgrade pain so nobody else has to 16:41:02 It's no mistake that the first letter in your nick is a cross... 16:41:48 *Xach* always looks on the bright side of life 16:41:56 drewc: did you receive the memo about yaclml? 16:42:48 Bronsa [~bronsa@host207-185-dynamic.21-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:43:53 adeht: probably/maybe... i seem to recall ignorning _something_ 16:43:59 *drewc* checks his mail 16:44:31 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7560d3.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:44:59 adeht: ok, maybe i didn't... what am i looking for? 16:45:02 drewc: minion memo 16:45:07 ahh 16:45:15 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@pD9E27B70.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:45:35 check out yaclml bugfix @ http://paste.lisp.org/display/115676 16:46:00 -!- colbseton` [~colbseton@AClermont-Ferrand-156-1-90-43.w86-206.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:46:23 adeht: do you have an example of code that triggers the bug? 16:46:29 colbseton` [~colbseton@AClermont-Ferrand-156-1-90-43.w86-206.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:46:43 drewc: no.. it's an obvious bug though, modifying a &rest list 16:47:11 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:47:29 adeht: ahh, well that's no good 16:47:38 -!- tfb [~tfb@92.41.102.111.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:47:46 I don't remember the exact circumstances where I noticed/fixed that.. just noticed the fix was there a while ago 16:48:02 austinh [~austinh@c-67-189-92-40.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:49:18 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 16:49:50 -!- antivigilante [~antivigil@63-225-195-196.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 16:53:43 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host207-185-dynamic.21-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:54:06 Bronsa [~bronsa@host207-185-dynamic.21-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:54:37 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu197.queens.ox.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 16:54:38 well, LOL provides lots of lol's .. getting one per page at the moment :) 16:55:41 Lisp on Lines code review? 16:55:45 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@chello062178064156.22.11.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 16:56:43 Xach: is the term "earmuffs" as applied to *earmuffs* your coinage or am I confused? 16:57:07 cmm: I think its trad. 16:57:13 splittist: nah, land of lisp... code reviewing LoL would provide a lot more lols and a significant number of wtf's 16:57:39 heh 16:58:17 I'm kind of disappointed that unicode doesn't have characters to draw a progress bar in a box in one char height 16:59:15 "LOL" is now an ambiguous abbreviation 16:59:18 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-138-74.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:59:20 "The Cro-Magnons were more aggressive than the peaceful Lisp programmers, attacking ever-bigger software development projects using fearsome languages such as COBOL." 16:59:20 16:59:21 in the Land of Lisp, that is.. 16:59:48 adeht: it has been ever since "let over lambda" 17:00:02 drewc: yes, I was referring to Lisp books :) 17:00:06 *drewc* was there first! 17:00:17 drewc is a Lisp hipster. 17:00:21 :) 17:00:24 :D 17:00:52 "I don't do frameworks, man. Monads are where it's at these days. Get with the times, sheesh." :D 17:00:54 jms is the true lisp hipster, he even has a beard 17:00:57 lhipser 17:00:58 jmc 17:01:17 monads will probably become the next mainstream thing and i'll be forced to find something even more obscure to identify myself with 17:01:40 cmm: the earliest mention i know of it is a joke i made on #lisp a few years ago 17:01:44 stassats`: he even has the big fat glasses and nerdy clothing. 17:01:55 cmm: If it was used before then, I haven't noticed. 17:02:02 'monads are so _over_ man, i'm using xappings now... have them on floppy' 17:02:24 who doesn't love the xapping? 17:02:31 I was wondering the same myself. 17:02:34 -!- yakov [~yzaytsev@183.49.62.92.nienschanz.ru] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:02:37 i think earmuffs were invented during AI Winter, to keep it warm 17:03:00 *drewc* 's beard has been on the news reports 17:03:15 it's quotes like stassats`' that make me wish we had a bot that could quotegrab. 17:04:00 well, there's still bash.org... but i don't think many people outside this channel would find that funny. :) 17:05:05 tfb: asdf-devel at common-lisp dotnet 17:05:16 minion: irc quotes? 17:05:17 irc quotes: Some moments from Freenode IRC, preserved for posterity, some humorous. http://www.cliki.net/irc%20quotes 17:05:28 lostinsf [~ddp@c-67-169-77-221.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:05:45 April 24, 2007: 17:05:52 13:44 that's why special variables traditionally wear earmuffs 17:05:53 ace4016 [~ace4016@adsl-32-15-21.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 17:05:57 13:47 Xach: earmuffs! so that's what they are. 17:06:15 after that, a lot of #lisp nerds used that term. but then it sort of tapered off. 17:06:22 Xach: that seems to be the first time i remember hearing the term 17:06:46 (which i still use, especially when deriding someones use of special varialbles with cold ears) 17:07:06 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:07:26 I distinctly remember knowing about the convention long before I remember having a name for it. 17:07:29 the term *earmuffs* was obviously not invented by a californian lisper. 17:07:55 http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/sports/ <---- the video preview screenshot contains a picture of my beard, and it's specifically mentioned in the report. Beard Pride! 17:08:02 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chester_Greenwood <-- note the origin 17:08:07 oconnore [~eric@ip68-225-113-244.mc.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:09 And, yes, there is already an earmuffs.com 17:08:11 tfb [~tfb@92.41.102.111.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:08:36 -!- ignas [~ignas@62.212.200.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:09:08 Fare: Almost certainly a boston lisper... i've been there in the winter and wished _i_ was special enough for earmuffs. 17:09:48 -!- rukowen [~thehien@222.253.84.37] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:09:55 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 17:09:57 drewc: is that you wearing the watchcap? 17:10:02 Fade: T 17:10:28 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-60-2.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:10:31 well, I finally have a face to correlate to the handle. :) 17:11:07 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:11:15 those guys from Maine! 17:12:08 when I came back from ILC, a colleague looked at my beard and told me, yeah of course you had to grow a beard for a Lisp conference 17:12:31 "The young, the old, /even/ the bearded"? 17:12:38 -!- tama [~tama@2001:0:53aa:64c:78:b55:9c9e:4e4f] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:12:38 http://xach.livejournal.com/273882.html <-- see also the first comment 17:13:17 i'm becoming aware of a stereotype I wasn't previously aware of. 17:13:21 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.42.175] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:13:33 lisp nerds love taffy? 17:13:36 *p_l|uni* tried to grow long hair, but hates a full beard 17:14:05 Bravo [~bravo@unaffiliated/bravo] has joined #lisp 17:14:05 I frequently mow my head from neck to neck. 17:14:19 you have two necks? 17:14:24 left and right. 17:14:27 front neck and back neck 17:14:33 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-60-2.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 17:14:36 I have to say, I really appreciate the ASDF2 efforts, and rpg and fare deserve kudos for pushing it through :) 17:14:54 -!- Bravo [~bravo@unaffiliated/bravo] has left #lisp 17:14:59 it seems so hard these days to update/change old tools. 17:15:09 now, if only I could convince rpg to develop xcvb instead... 17:15:17 on the asdf2 front i've seen some grumbling, but it has worked very well for me, and I dig the way it stashes fasls away. 17:15:19 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.100.228] has joined #lisp 17:15:45 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:15:53 Stashl files. 17:15:56 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:15:56 only by being pushed by rpg into explaining it clearly did I finally grok the point of do-first vs in-order-to 17:16:07 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 17:16:22 Xach: did you get a chance to test the latest asdf 2.1xx ? 17:17:03 Fare: working on it 17:17:27 since 2.1 isn't a branch of 2.0 after all, I'm considering renaming the next release 2.200 instead of 2.010, and using 2.200.1 instead of 2.145 17:18:24 splittist: even the bearded indeed :) 17:18:36 silenius [~silenus@rrcs-64-183-24-38.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:19:02 Xach: did you see the suggestion for a output relocation for quicklisp? 17:19:15 Yes, I did. 17:19:25 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:19:53 if you test 2.144 successfully, I'll promote it as either 2.010 or 2.200 17:19:57 drewc: what's the capacity of the new stadium? And is there a fair amount of corporate hospitality facilities? Ummm, lisp relevance cough... 17:20:32 I'd just call it 2.0.10 but rpg doesn't want me to change numbering in ways that make version numbers go backwards. 17:20:45 splittist: the temporary new stadium is 20k. BC place, when it's finished, i'm not sure, but it's probably 30-40k 17:20:52 and for backwards compatibility, it has to be 2.x with x > 144 17:21:08 (it was 63k+ at one point but i think they've reduced it) 17:21:16 The Righteous Enclave of Active CL Enthusiasts 2011 will be in Vancouver's stadium. 17:21:29 REACLE ? 17:21:40 oh, it spells something? 17:21:42 splittist: and yeah, BC place has a tonne of VIP boxes, corporate stuff, etc 17:22:10 BC place is where the Lions play? 17:22:12 drewc: but you're not expecting 30k for an MLS game? Unless there's a lisp presentation at half-time, obviously. 17:22:14 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 17:23:39 splittist: well, i honestly wouldn't doubt that we can pull in 30k for an MLS game.. there are already 16k season ticket deposits sold, and the city barely knows who the whitecaps are yet 17:23:57 when we enter the MLS and start doing well, 30k might not be enough. 17:24:19 leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has joined #lisp 17:24:19 (the old whitecaps in the old NASL used to regularly pull in 50k+) 17:24:53 Fade: The Lions play there are well. It was built for the NASL whitecaps. 17:25:16 Fade: but the lions are currently at Empire Grounds until the renovations on BC place are done. 17:25:18 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:25:30 wild 17:25:37 (which is where the caps will be to start next season as well) 17:25:37 drewc: bah. those are only deposits! i know a guy who bought four of them but might not convert them if the prices are too high. 17:25:42 drewc: that would have you beating Seattle as the top attended side. Which I could see, but is 50% up on (current 2nd) LA, for example. 17:25:47 soccer has more popularity than football? :) 17:25:54 Xach: bloody hell, you read /r/mls? 17:26:10 *Xach* subscribes to certain redditor comment feeds 17:26:15 ahh 17:26:22 you can do that? 17:26:36 indeed. though it dumps raw markdown instead of HTML. 17:27:15 splittist: traditionaly, we are a bigger soccer town then seattle. When Seattle was promoted, their supporters group numbered around 50 registered members.. we are already at 150+ 17:27:37 tama [~tama@2001:0:53aa:64c:1461:b55:9c9e:4e4f] has joined #lisp 17:27:48 wait... soccer... in North America? 17:28:08 I know. we're degenerating daily. 17:28:10 on #lisp ? 17:28:13 It's more likely than you think. 17:28:23 -!- lostinsf [~ddp@c-67-169-77-221.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: lostinsf] 17:28:31 anyone who asks the question knows nothing of north american sporting history :) 17:28:34 Fare: it was related to beards, so it's OK 17:28:43 when I lived in Paris I converted a lot of french people to hockey. 17:29:12 unless you have a recursive beard where each hair grows a beard, is it fit for #lisp ? 17:29:17 one only needs to look to the NY Cosmos, who had Pele! 17:29:33 Fare: I would quite like to see such a fractal beard. 17:29:38 a beard is a nest of parentheses 17:29:48 Fade: they wait for every 10 winter to be able to train in the parcs? 17:30:00 wait... me is a op here who usually polices off topic chat... i suppose i can't allow it just because it's one of my favorite topics :) 17:30:04 drewc: and the rest! and what happened to that league... 17:30:24 s1gma_ [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 17:30:51 well, 'converted' inasmuch as it was no longer necessary to get in violent arguments to get Hockey Night in Canada up on the bar television at 1am on saturday nights. :) 17:31:09 if Les Bleues were playing, all bets were off. 17:31:30 *Xach* issues yellow cards for offtopicness 17:31:53 Fade: I'm not sure Les Bleus have played in the last 4-8 years or so... 17:31:57 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-10-221.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:32:02 *Fade* heads off to the penalty box, which looks remarkably like his emacs session 17:32:15 I thought that's what they called the national soccer team. 17:32:29 Fade: his point 17:32:36 Fade: these days, we only call them derogatory names. 17:32:38 Fade: indeed... whoosh :) 17:32:46 lol 17:32:57 soccer jokes are regularly over my head. ;) 17:33:08 -!- _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:33:25 Fade: besides, feminizing their name with that ending "e" is an insult to the female gender. 17:34:22 *Fare* is reading a CS article where the ambiguous mish mash between namespaces is horrible. 17:34:23 ah, well, apologies to all women involved. :) 17:35:06 *drewc* goes to talk about lisp in his soccer channels :) 17:35:28 see what you started? 17:35:38 it was an innocent beard! 17:35:54 *p_l|uni* gave up soccer before he encountered Lisp... he thinks. Can't be sure regarding *when* he had seen that AutoLISP book 17:36:17 some of these quotes on cliki are golden. 17:36:23 -!- tama is now known as bandu 17:36:26 -!- austinh [~austinh@c-67-189-92-40.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:37:14 -!- adeht [void@91.121.18.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:37:31 -!- bandu [~tama@2001:0:53aa:64c:1461:b55:9c9e:4e4f] has quit [Changing host] 17:37:31 bandu [~tama@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 17:37:45 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-61-251.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:38:57 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-61-251.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:41:34 Fade: which quotes? 17:41:41 http://www.cliki.net/IRC%20Quotes 17:42:05 _6502_ [5895bdc9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.149.189.201] has joined #lisp 17:43:46 <_6502_> writing some lisp code i found that maphash isn't standard, but it's available in clisp; now if i define it as a macro based on maphash then clisp complains, if I don't define it sbcl complains... what is the best practice ... just going for the less readable mapash ? 17:43:52 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 17:44:02 <_6502_> sorry i found that dohash isn't standard 17:44:27 _6502_: define your own package. don't do it in cl-user. 17:44:30 serichsen [~user@g227194114.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:44:34 Good evening! 17:44:44 also, clisp has been superseded by all other implementations. 17:45:00 _6502_: but maphash is a pretty good way to go. 17:45:07 Fade: no way! 17:45:12 Fade: what?... 17:45:16 *Fade* chuckles 17:45:32 clisp is a fantastic calculator. I keep it handy! 17:45:50 clisp is a fantastic breaker of assumptions about pathnames! 17:46:03 and a great LOOP lint! 17:46:08 and last I heard, a fantastic bignum manipulator. 17:46:20 so we keep it around /w GCL in the gallery of curiosities. 17:46:25 did you know Yahoo store used CLISP? are you saying you know more than Paul Graham? 17:46:34 <_3b> useful for big floats too 17:46:37 libgmp has the fantastic bignums 17:47:01 it also has the "fantastic" license 17:47:02 plus, CLISP is infused with Freedom. 17:47:06 p_l|uni: haha 17:47:08 I'm pretty certain clisp may have been the straw that broke PG's back. 17:47:36 Fade: comparing anything with GCL is unkind 17:47:40 yeah, CLISP uses the paradigm "we might suck, but we force-feed Freedom to you" 17:47:57 p_l|uni: would you rather have some non-Freedom? C'mon! 17:47:59 snobs 17:48:24 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 17:48:24 sykopomp: GPL is like taint on Saidin 17:49:09 p_l|uni: It's just a license. Perhaps you prefer a EULA. 17:49:10 Clisp uses the paradigm, you should play by the same rules if you want to use our stuff. 17:49:28 -!- lanthan_afh [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:50:22 <_6502_> so cl-user may contain more names than common lisp, even locked ones... 17:50:42 cl-user is a kind of scratch space that uses :cl 17:50:47 dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 17:50:59 what is the most popular licensing lisp community use nowadays? llgpl or bsd i guess 17:51:29 <_6502_> fade: ok... makes sense; no real code should go there 17:51:59 -!- PCChris [~PCChris@wireless-165-124-199-238.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:52:15 kenanb: I see a lot of MIT. 17:52:28 although I've been warming up to just doing public domain. 17:53:06 I like llgpl. 17:53:08 the problem is that public domain is fairly meaningless, internationally 17:54:17 dlowe: I'm not sure how meaningless it is, internationally, but providing MIT as an alternative when dealing with oppressive regimes seems like a reasonable solution. 17:54:36 adeht [void@91.121.18.93] has joined #lisp 17:55:06 help, help. I'm being oppressed because the mean GPL people won't let me use their free code! 17:55:29 yeah.. i don't get it. 17:55:37 so don't use it. sheesh 17:55:42 gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:43 *Xach* wishes ITA had rented a bus for ILC and packed the conference 17:55:50 -!- Xof [~crhodes@158.223.51.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:56:13 -!- _6502_ [5895bdc9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.149.189.201] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:56:21 *Xach* also wishes TECLO had rented a zeppelin for the same purpose 17:56:41 *p_l|uni* simply recently encountered some GPL fanboyism and/or misunderstanding of licensing/copyright (IRL, not here). 17:56:48 Sometimes it overflows here 17:57:27 Xof [~crhodes@158.223.51.79] has joined #lisp 17:58:18 does for example adding a licence txt file have legal liability or do they usually rely on trust. 17:58:20 minion: chant! 17:58:20 MORE FREEDOM 17:58:53 seems like simple greed to me. The lure of something for nothing. 17:59:04 -!- boysetsfrog [~nathan@123-243-214-176.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:59:23 boysetsfrog [~nathan@123-243-214-176.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 17:59:43 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 18:00:05 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-170-47.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 18:00:32 kenanb: actually, without a license, you can't really distribute anything because there's no default assumption of public domain or anything 18:02:00 i think the default assumption within the WTO is that all rights are reserved by the original author unless expressly assigned. 18:02:05 i mean you guys write lots of pretty useful libraries, if some company uses one of these which has, lets say llgpl license, and deletes the license, delete the authorship information, use it in its own software without any reference to the authors, is there something to do about that? 18:02:43 kenanb: sure. you can sue them. 18:02:53 -!- bandu [~tama@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:03:20 i fact it would be hard to even notice that kind of legal problem in a closed source software, but lets say it is opensource 18:04:35 guh, i get load of class not yet defined's from climacs, when loading unloading adn reload recompiling it 18:04:38 I wish lisp were popular enough that 'theft' of lisp code was a problem grave enough to justify this conversation. 18:04:50 Fade: indeed 18:05:02 begins with top-level-sheet-pane 18:05:13 I think if you're worried about such things, the llgpl provides the best protection. 18:05:24 but this is the definition of a problem in theory and not in practice. 18:05:32 then state-list-node 18:05:39 dlowe: most of the popular licenses are recognized internationally, right? 18:05:48 that's nice 18:05:55 kenanb: none of us are lawyers. 18:05:59 anyway, i need to stop being off-topic 18:07:15 regexp, point-cursor, rest-paramter and in cl-opnegl undefined function declare::buffun 18:07:18 tama [~tama@2001:0:53aa:64c:14d8:2b51:9c9e:4e4f] has joined #lisp 18:07:37 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 18:07:38 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:08:02 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 18:09:20 WHAT IS A CLASSOID-CELL ? 18:09:26 hups 18:09:47 -!- splittist [~John@84-182.1-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: time to quietly leave] 18:10:19 Genosh [~Genosh@193.153.54.47] has joined #lisp 18:11:02 Anyone here bought the Land of Lisp book already? 18:11:17 bulters: drewc did 18:11:21 (seems like I'm having order work problems) 18:12:22 Would love to hear a lispers opinion on it. 18:13:00 aintme [~Miranda@171.37.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 18:13:03 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-178-106.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:13:11 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:13:57 _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 18:14:48 seangrove [~user@70-36-236-168.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:15:08 -!- s1gma_ [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:16:29 MagBo [~Sweater@87.246.131.149] has joined #lisp 18:16:50 -!- MagBo is now known as Tosh[Drd] 18:19:41 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 18:20:29 homie: this is probably a job for paste.lisp.org... 18:21:01 when "UNloading" it? Huh? 18:21:29 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:21:47 p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 18:22:29 btbngr [~btbgnr@212.183.140.33] has joined #lisp 18:22:31 faux` [~user@c-b09d70d5.035-128-67626713.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 18:24:43 "But if you look hard enough, maybe in the highest mountains, in the deepest jungles, or on the lowest basement levels of MIT, you may catch a glimpse of an odd sort of creature. Some call it the Windigo; others refer to it as a yeti, Sasquatch, or rms. But those who really know think it just might bethat it could only bea Lisp programmer" 18:25:36 drdo [~user@93.108.192.98] has joined #lisp 18:26:09 drewc: nice quote :) 18:26:52 nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-178-106.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 18:27:16 -!- tfb [~tfb@92.41.102.111.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:27:20 drewc: I feel offended for comparison with RMS 18:27:41 (I can be a scary basement monster, but I'm no RMS) 18:28:22 (with-open-file "bla") (with-output-to-file (someform)) ? is that the way to store say text from a computation in a file ? 18:29:21 homie: that syntax is not valid. 18:29:50 right ok, do you maybe have a better ? 18:30:34 homie: one option is (with-open-file (*standard-output* "bla" :direction :output) (print (someform))) 18:31:07 and the other ? 18:31:39 The other what? 18:31:50 the call signature is at the top of the hyperspec documentation. 18:31:53 you said one option 18:31:55 p_l|uni: but not offended with the comparison to bigfoot? 18:32:02 i mean, at least rms can code :) 18:32:03 homie: There are so many options. 18:32:12 ah ok 18:32:21 (w-o-f (streamvar filename &key)) 18:32:26 rpg: for a no-more maintainer of ASDF, I do too much maintenance :-/ 18:33:07 drewc: I lack the data on Yeti eating stuff from their feet. 18:33:16 Fare: We should have had a drawing for new maintainer at ILC. I envisage something along the lines of "The Lottery" by Shirley Jackson... 18:33:18 or listening to (loud) bad music 24/7 18:33:43 To Serve Lisp - "it's a cookbook" 18:33:56 Quick SBCL question: is there a version of DEFADVICE somewhere for SBCL? Or should I try this: http://blog.viridian-project.de/2008/05/04/function-encapsulation-in-sbcl/ 18:34:15 p_l|uni: i suspect that, like rms, they have no qualms about such things :P 18:34:45 jdz [~jdz@host80-106-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:34:59 drewc: there are other issues, namely do we qualify Bigfoot as a weird human, or as an animal... 18:35:20 zomgbie [~jesus@212095007050.public.telering.at] has joined #lisp 18:35:31 -!- dnm [~dnm@static-71-166-174-24.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:35:56 rpg: No DEFADVICE that I'm aware of offhand. 18:36:47 nyef: Thanks. I think I can roll something roughly equivalent with function encapsulation... 18:37:02 rpg: SB-INT is a private package, so it's not officially supported. 18:37:06 but it will be a one-off kludge. Was hoping someone had a spiffy macro... 18:37:46 nyef: This is only for debugging anyway (need to be able to mess with some functions so that they timeout under my control...) 18:38:04 Fair enough. 18:38:24 argh. 18:38:59 alexandria's package lock breaks stefil, the orphaned original version of hu.dwim.stefil. lots of projects reference that stefil. 18:39:20 *Xach* wonders how best to proceed - adopt stefil and minimally update it so it continues to work? 18:41:44 Intensity [1BrVWiuQZ2@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 18:42:30 ignas [~ignas@62.212.200.55] has joined #lisp 18:42:54 Xach: i think that's a good idea... is nobody currently maintaining the old stefil? 18:43:01 hmm, "lots" is an overstatement. it's 8 test systems. 18:43:09 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@99.142.48.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:43:10 drewc: i don't think so. 18:43:36 wbooze` [~user@xdsl-87-79-140-250.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:43:40 homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-140-250.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:43:50 -!- tama [~tama@2001:0:53aa:64c:14d8:2b51:9c9e:4e4f] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:45:31 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-61-251.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:46:19 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-61-251.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:47:55 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 18:49:50 <_8david> what are the differences between stefil and hu.dwim.stefil except for the rename? 18:50:29 <_8david> (I was under the impression that all the hu.dwim.* projects started out as plain renames.) 18:50:39 -!- oconnore [~eric@ip68-225-113-244.mc.at.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:50:49 I don't know, sorry. 18:52:19 -!- aintme [~Miranda@171.37.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:52:22 attila_lendvai: hmm, my sbcl doesn't have sb-debug::*verbosity*, so hu.dwim.util fails to compile due to a package lock. collect-call-path/impl uses sb-debug::*verbosity* as a default argument value. 18:52:46 it worked for me earlier this month, though. i think. 18:53:18 -!- wbooze` [~user@xdsl-87-79-140-250.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:53:25 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-140-250.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:54:44 *Xach* kills fasls, retries 18:59:26 tama [~tama@2001:0:53aa:64c:14d8:2b51:9c9e:4e4f] has joined #lisp 18:59:49 *Xach* wins this time 19:00:09 Xach: hrm, i think a few of those systems are ones i control, so if hu.dwim.stefil works, i at change at least. For system we don't control, we can hack in a compatibility layer 19:00:40 syntard [cc335cfb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.204.51.92.251] has joined #lisp 19:00:54 drewc: ok 19:01:36 Hello, first time here I think, unless many years ago 19:02:24 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: mstevens] 19:02:39 syntard: welcome. back, maybe. 19:03:22 I'm implementing something that looks like lisp in javascript, anybody got as far as macros? 19:03:28 -!- dborba [~dborba@pool-74-105-202-55.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:03:50 Well, what we do usually, is to use parenscript. 19:03:53 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-10-221.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 19:04:14 So we can write macros in Common Lisp, and use a Common Lisp implementation to expand then and generate the javascript code. 19:04:15 I understand 19:04:31 sounds like syntard wants to go the other way. 19:04:38 Indeed 19:04:40 Otherwise, there's no special difficulties in implementing a macro system once you have a lisp system. 19:04:43 the performance will be terrible. 19:04:43 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-140-250.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:04:44 :) 19:05:05 Not necessarily, they have optimized a lot javascript engines lately... 19:05:14 Fade: not true! a finely tuned lisp-in-js compiled with cl-javascript... 19:05:18 If it's a translator. 19:05:34 (and yeah, js vm's are getting up to speed) 19:05:35 hmm, you just gave me an idea 19:05:57 use parenscript to create a pure javascript lisp interpreter 19:06:40 That may be making too big of a circle 19:06:49 syntard: to play, a lisp interpreter is nice. But if you have in mind serrious programming, it would be better to compile lisp to javascript. 19:06:53 so v8 and tracemonkey compile to machine code? 19:07:29 pjb: or you can write a bytecode VM for a Lisp in Javascript. 19:07:45 and write a bytecode compiler for your lisp :) 19:07:50 pjb: I plan to compile 19:07:54 Sure. You could even implement clisp's VM so that you could run clisp's .fas files directly ! 19:07:55 which is what ericbb over in #lispgames did. 19:08:12 there's other languages that have similar VMs. OCaml, for example. 19:08:14 I know that this is going to sound nutty, but does anyone have a piece of code that does the /opposite/ of destructuring-bind? I.e., tries to find a list that corresponds to an instantiated lambda-list? 19:08:15 dborba [~dborba@pool-74-105-202-55.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:08:41 rdd` [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 19:08:50 I just like the idea of having full power of javascript at macro expansion 19:08:58 tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.181] has joined #lisp 19:09:00 -!- Genosh [~Genosh@193.153.54.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:09:09 (list* a (list b c list :k1 k1 :k2 k2) rest) ? 19:09:09 sellout [~rooms@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:09:21 Fade: they do indeed. 19:09:32 neat. 19:09:35 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:09:42 (destructuring-bind (a (b c &key k1 k2) &rest rest) origin (equalp origin (list* a (list b c list :k1 k1 :k2 k2) rest))) 19:09:42 so you could re-scheme js. ;) 19:10:17 *Xach* is getting some kind of repeated symbol corruption :( 19:11:21 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-140-250.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:11:22 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.100.228] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:11:36 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 19:13:13 pjb: I think that's pretty much right. The only mess (that I'm worried about) comes from (foo bar &rest args &key baz bletch) --- need to check that any keyword bindings are consistent with the binding of args.... 19:13:28 -!- sellout [~rooms@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:13:47 sigh --- writing defadvice is harder than I thought... 19:13:55 rpg: well, &rest overrides &key, here you can ignore the keywords. (list* foo bar args) 19:13:56 -!- rdd` [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:14:11 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 19:14:28 rpg: and if it's to forward arguments with a macro, you may use &whole too. 19:15:56 anybody compiled a minimum set of CL that needs to be implemented in host language before CL can be written in CL? 19:16:17 beach is working on something like that. 19:16:50 syntard: you only need LAMBDA 19:17:25 stassats`: you need much more than LAMBDA for CL, even at a basic level. 19:17:33 pjb: thanks, that's right... 19:17:38 stassats: surely a jok 19:17:49 but lambda is Turing complete 19:18:07 stassats: that's changing the topic 19:18:27 s1gma_ [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 19:18:50 is it? if you say "minimum", you're bound to end up in a turing tarpit 19:18:54 I may come up with that list myself in the course of implementing 19:18:56 syntard: once you've implemented lambda, you have a system in which you can build a lisp. 19:19:16 http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/syntax-and-semantics.html 19:19:17 not a pleasant one, to be sure, but... 19:19:20 drewc: how about a reader? 19:19:36 or macros. 19:20:04 need to read your lambda first 19:20:07 syntard: one doesn't actually require a reader to implement lambda, or macros. 19:20:08 lol 19:20:24 in any case... 19:20:39 syntard: Qi is an example of a Lisp that is designed with that goal in mind. 19:20:44 Kernel as well. 19:21:16 syntard: search for 'special form' in the cltl index. 19:21:21 sykopomp: thanks 19:21:30 sykopomp: i'm sure they're not minimal 19:21:34 rdd` [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 19:21:34 syntard: neither of those is common lisp. 19:21:40 stassats`: Kernel is pretty minimal. 19:21:44 more like "sane minimal" 19:22:18 drewc: Ok, I don't want insane minimal 19:22:20 -!- _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:23:25 eval(cons(symbol("+")), cons(1, (cons (1, nil())))); <-- in an example of using a lisp interpreter written in a made up language sans reader. 19:24:04 drewc: an unhygienic one, to boot! 19:24:22 -!- tama [~tama@2001:0:53aa:64c:14d8:2b51:9c9e:4e4f] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:24:25 I like eval 19:24:40 Kernel's eval is spoiling me. 19:24:51 -!- rdd` is now known as rdd 19:24:58 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-10-221.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:25:10 aha! 19:25:35 since you need to use the host language facilites to write a reader, once you have lambda written in that host language you'll have something you can use to actually read _to_. Then you can start writing code in your lisp.. starting with the code you've written in the host language ;) 19:25:40 attila_lendvai: hu.dwim.util.error-handling doesn't work on SBCL because of references to sb-debug symbols that don't exist. 19:26:25 attila_lendvai: hu.dwim.rdbms recently added util.error-handling as a dependency. so now hu.dwim.rdbms doesn't work on sbcl, either. 19:26:41 *Xach* wonders how asleep attila_lendvai is 19:26:51 drewc: but lambda is a billion light years away 19:27:00 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-10-221.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:27:26 syntard: so implement $vau. 19:28:23 sykopomp: what is? 19:28:25 are light years equivalent to micro-lines of code 19:28:30 ? 19:28:40 syntard: a lower-level construct than lambda. 19:28:42 hun [~hun@95-89-69-55-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 19:29:41 fmeyer [~fmeyer@200.234.211.138] has joined #lisp 19:29:46 drewc: number of times i bang my head 19:30:04 manby-ace_ [~manby-ace@88-96-24-53.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:30:48 or NAND, or NOR 19:31:32 syntard: there is a metric shite-tonne of literature on implementing lisp compilers and interpreters in everything from PDP assmembly through C and python to haskell, javascript and more... it's not rocket surgery! 19:31:50 in fact, it's quite easy 19:31:55 and don't worry too much about getting it wrong, as everyone else has so far as well :) 19:32:04 no, i'm not complaining 19:33:02 this is better than googling though 19:33:12 search engine talks back 19:33:22 full of sass 19:33:41 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:35:35 tama [~tama@2001:0:53aa:64c:14d8:2b51:9c9e:4e4f] has joined #lisp 19:37:07 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.181] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 19:38:19 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 19:38:54 Xach: ok, noted. I'll look into that... (nikodemus is looking into applying my debug cleanup patch to sbcl, but meanwhile I'll try to conditionalize it) 19:39:09 francogrex [c27e1834@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.126.24.52] has joined #lisp 19:39:26 hi 19:39:55 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu197.queens.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:40:33 attila_lendvai: ah, it is for a potential future sbcl? 19:41:15 yes, but there are no really fundamentally big changes, just a bit of tailoring on the API that breaks it 19:44:00 -!- ignas [~ignas@62.212.200.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:44:00 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 19:44:51 Genosh [~Genosh@56.Red-88-11-127.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:45:01 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:46:27 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu197.queens.ox.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 19:46:58 -!- francogrex [c27e1834@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.126.24.52] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:48:03 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 19:49:16 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@212095007050.public.telering.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:53:42 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 19:55:14 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@200.234.211.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:55:16 -!- jdz [~jdz@host80-106-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:55:49 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-60-2.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:56:22 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:58:56 tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.181] has joined #lisp 20:00:20 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 20:00:46 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 20:02:21 Jabberwock [~Jens@f050064106.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:05:15 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050064106.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:08:04 -!- hun [~hun@95-89-69-55-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:10:47 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 20:14:29 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:15:08 -!- faux` [~user@c-b09d70d5.035-128-67626713.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:15:38 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:09 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-60-2.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:19:17 Demosthenes [~demo@71.16.32.119] has joined #lisp 20:20:28 -!- silenius [~silenus@rrcs-64-183-24-38.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:21:51 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host207-185-dynamic.21-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:22:07 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: mstevens] 20:22:17 fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-084-056-181-159.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:49 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 20:24:24 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-60-2.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:25:10 -!- tama [~tama@2001:0:53aa:64c:14d8:2b51:9c9e:4e4f] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:28:28 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:35:56 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:38:38 fmeyer [~fmeyer@200.234.211.138] has joined #lisp 20:38:54 http://dtogameblog.blogspot.com/2010/10/xiobeat-revamped-stepmania-style-editor.html 20:39:05 more lispy graphical pr0n 20:39:45 tama [~tama@2001:0:53aa:64c:2095:27b1:bed1:7141] has joined #lisp 20:41:48 Xach: are you pulling the head or the live set of hu.dwim repos? 20:42:00 head should work... but I update live now also 20:43:32 vIkSiT [~viksit@unaffiliated/viksit] has joined #lisp 20:43:58 *LiamH* hums "simple but refined, guaranteed to blow your mind" 20:45:23 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:45:48 this land of lisp music video is pretty funny. 20:46:18 -!- colbseton` [~colbseton@AClermont-Ferrand-156-1-90-43.w86-206.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 20:46:20 -!- Jabberwock [~Jens@f050064106.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20:46:27 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM1Zb3xmvMc 20:46:50 -!- gds [~nnnuser@zenit.dh.bytemark.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:47:31 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:49:17 -!- astalla [~astalla@dynamic-adsl-94-36-56-19.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 20:49:19 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 20:51:32 -!- leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:52:07 wakeup [~wakeup@koln-5d819fe5.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:52:11 heyho 20:52:26 I sort of disagree with the implication that Lisp isn't always using objects. I think of dynamic types as the original "objects", and object orientation an add-on feature of less importance. 20:52:42 directory sometimes lists files and sometimes doesnt on my sbcl, what the fuck? 20:54:34 wakeup: elaborate, possibly paste. 20:55:29 well I got three directories with files and directories 20:55:59 and when I do a wild directory on one of those I get files and directories, on the others I only get directories... 20:56:11 and I dont see how those differ 20:57:23 I don't really understand what you mean, but I tend to use cl-fad to smooth over pathname wierdness. 20:58:10 http://paste.lisp.org/display/115969 20:58:41 -!- meandi [~meandi@dyndsl-178-142-054-193.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:59:19 this isnt't the right behaviour right? 20:59:59 I dont think cl-fad can go smooth over that 21:00:37 -!- chaslemley [~chaslemle@208.44.170.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:01:17 oh I get it. 21:01:19 again 21:01:48 (\ /) 21:01:53 (*.*) 21:01:56 ("(") 21:01:58 ;) 21:02:05 wakeup: No need for that. 21:02:24 did you get it? 21:02:52 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 21:05:42 cl-fad:list-directory goes to some trouble to avoid passing wildcards to the (directory pathspec) form. 21:05:56 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:06:03 you'd have to look at the chapter in PCL that covers it to find out why; i don't know off hand. 21:07:08 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/m_w_open.htm#with-open-file can someone tell me why when i try out the reached end of file thing in my sbcl, and try to balance paranthesis with that that i get an error about unbalanced parantheses, but yet the last parantheses i add just closes the one just beggingin the -> (with-open-file ? 21:07:25 but (cl-fad:list-directory (cl-fad:pathname-as-directory "/home/wakeup/test/")) should return what you expect. 21:07:36 -!- seangrove [~user@70-36-236-168.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:07:55 when i let out the last parantheses and just use ))) it just closes the do 21:08:02 but then it works 21:08:35 is there a flaw in my understanding here ? 21:08:50 gabnet [~gabnet@86.67.23.141] has joined #lisp 21:09:21 i mean works without the error, it works in the other case too but just throws me to the debugger where i can continue 21:11:14 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@200.234.211.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:11:16 i used this one here (with-open-file (s q) (do ((l (read-line s) (read-line s nil 'eof))) ((eq l 'eof) "Reached end of file.") (format t "~&*** ~a~%" l))) 21:12:25 s is # and q #P"/home/sepult/.sbclrc" 21:13:01 chaslemley [~chaslemle@208.44.170.2] has joined #lisp 21:14:04 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:14:22 p_l|home [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:14:34 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.181] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 21:15:01 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-64-227.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:18:33 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:18:35 fmeyer [~fmeyer@200.234.211.138] has joined #lisp 21:19:01 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-60-2.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:23:59 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:24:26 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-157-11.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 21:24:42 -!- tama [~tama@2001:0:53aa:64c:2095:27b1:bed1:7141] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:24:45 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 21:25:11 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@200.234.211.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:25:19 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 21:30:50 -!- wakeup [~wakeup@koln-5d819fe5.pool.mediaWays.net] has left #lisp 21:37:17 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 21:40:17 -!- aifnord [~aifnord@79.133.4.112] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:40:34 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:41:44 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:42:07 -!- chaslemley [~chaslemle@208.44.170.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:42:12 pierrep [~ppasteau@bas1-montreal43-2925255942.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 21:45:23 tama_ [~tama@2001:0:53aa:64c:3c86:13fd:9c9e:4e4f] has joined #lisp 21:47:23 -!- tcr [~tcr@77-21-209-90-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:47:45 homie: i totally copied what you wrote just changing the p to an actual pathname 21:47:49 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-084-056-181-159.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 21:47:55 it works 21:48:15 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@86.67.23.141] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 21:48:17 do you get the same error on parantheses balancing ? 21:48:22 nope 21:48:25 or am i screwed in my understanding ? 21:48:32 hmmmm 21:48:49 so my build of sbcl must be gone .... 21:49:05 something altered the reader again or so... 21:49:06 bah 21:49:07 maybe 21:49:29 try backing up and delete the original of .sbclrc 21:49:34 then open sbcl 21:49:44 yes i will try it now 21:49:51 copy the same code, if it works, no problem with sbcl 21:50:24 in fact it is nearly impossible to screw the core normally 21:50:43 so your problem is probably something else 21:50:58 -!- Soulman1 [~knute@159.80-202-237.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 21:51:59 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu197.queens.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:52:08 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A6EB7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:55:43 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:56:19 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-202-208.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:56:36 same error, tried the balanced one 21:57:30 the unbalanced works again ok 21:57:43 seems that my sbcl really got screwed somewhere 21:58:11 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:58:35 from where do you connect sbcl 21:58:47 i mean where did you try it last time 21:58:58 rlwarp -m -p -A sbcl that's how i startin in konsole in kde 21:58:58 emacs? 22:02:26 what is the balanced one? 22:02:55 Xach: (load-system :hu.dwim.rdbms) works here on stock SBCL (or I screwed up something) 22:03:09 Xach: did you test it with all the hu.dwim repos pulled? 22:04:13 -!- jpanest [~jpanest@174-143-154-194.static.cloud-ips.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:04:20 jpanest [~jpanest@174-143-154-194.static.cloud-ips.com] has joined #lisp 22:04:44 ok tried it bare in konsole again the same 22:05:11 what is the balanced version of the code? 22:05:31 )))) instead of ))) at the end of what you copied 22:06:11 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 22:06:11 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@2001:6f8:1215:ba:1::77] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:06:47 my version is 1.0.43 22:08:34 and i bootstrapped it with a 1.0.42 22:08:45 do you mean only "sbcl" with bare console or rlwrapped version? 22:08:55 bare is only sbcl 22:09:07 rlwrapped does not alter anything it seems 22:09:37 my rlwrap version is 0.37 compiled myself 22:10:46 -!- manby-ace_ [~manby-ace@88-96-24-53.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: manby-ace_] 22:11:03 Probably dumb slime + sbcl question: I got myself into trouble in a method call, and just wanted to skip that call in SLDB. So I tried to do a return from frame. Not ok. Out of curiosity, I then walked up the stack and found that at no point in the code could I do an sldb-return-from-frame. is this normal? 22:11:46 is your code compiled with debugging? 22:12:24 homie: did you delete your sbcl init file totally while doing this? 22:12:34 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:12:47 yes i mv'ed it to .sbcl-old so it won't get recognized 22:12:57 stassats`: default is to not compile with debugging? 22:13:20 obviously time for a declaim in my .sbclrc! 22:13:26 then i can't think of anything else :) 22:13:39 rpg: defualt is 1, which isn't enough usually 22:13:49 and declaim isn't enough either, try sb-ext:restrict-compiler-policy 22:13:55 so why is the balanced one not working ? 22:14:07 or why is the balanced one even not used on the clhs site ? 22:14:21 what do you mean by that? 22:14:31 the one in clhs site is the balanced one 22:14:43 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:14:48 debug 2 is the best of both worlds 22:14:51 have you been trying the one with )))) all this time? 22:15:12 stassats`: OK, thanks. I am used to ACL, where you get debuggable by default (but not tail recursion ;->) 22:16:58 o o, it seems my paren balancer is then not right about how many parens match and not 22:17:07 hm. The extension to with-compilation-unit is really neat, but I fear that ASDF is going to foil my ability to get at it.... 22:17:19 homie: you do not use emacs? 22:17:47 omg, have you been trying the one you think you balanced instead of the clhs example all this time 22:17:56 not always 22:18:23 rpg: tail call optimisation in sbcl goes away with debug 3 22:18:25 no i tried both and wondered why the on was working and the other not 22:18:35 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.54.178] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:18:50 the balanced actually shown to be the )))) ending one and not the other in my konsole 22:18:51 lol 22:19:21 why do you trust a stupid balancer instead of clhs 22:19:23 ah yeah i see now 22:19:27 stassats`: thanks. I got that, but have been mostly using SBCL to run code developed under ACL. So I am somewhat familiar with running SBCL, but mostly not interactively... 22:19:32 :) 22:19:35 emacs does better balance parens 22:19:35 appreciate the hand-holding. 22:19:44 oh man 22:20:06 ok, so what was your paren balancer 22:20:23 rlwrap 0.37 22:21:17 silenius [~silenus@cpe-76-169-35-122.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:22:14 ok, next time, if you encounter a problem, be worried about the little not enuf tested tools instead of the ansi specification 22:22:16 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-202-208.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 22:23:01 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:25:40 and for gods sake use emacs slime instead :) 22:26:57 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 22:27:36 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7560d3.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:32:13 -!- pierrep [~ppasteau@bas1-montreal43-2925255942.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:32:45 -!- LiamH [~none@132.250.138.103] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:35:00 pierrep [~ppasteau@bas1-montreal43-2925255942.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 22:35:58 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 22:37:15 angus [~angus@ip-213-220-215-18.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 22:38:58 -!- Genosh [~Genosh@56.Red-88-11-127.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:41:02 -!- kenanb [~user@94.54.235.211] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:43:44 Genosh|NoEsta [~Genosh@56.Red-88-11-127.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:43:59 -!- Genosh|NoEsta is now known as Genosh 22:48:57 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:52:38 kenanb [~user@94.54.235.211] has joined #lisp 22:53:47 seangrove [~user@70-36-236-168.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:00 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:37 -!- xristos [~x@2001:470:8859:cafe:20c:29ff:fe47:788] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 22:59:04 -!- jomatv6 [~jomat@2001:470:9935::badc:ab1e] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:59:42 -!- tama_ [~tama@2001:0:53aa:64c:3c86:13fd:9c9e:4e4f] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:59:58 -!- angus [~angus@ip-213-220-215-18.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:00:34 jomatv6 [~jomat@2001:470:9935::badc:ab1e] has joined #lisp 23:02:55 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 23:02:57 tama_ [~tama@2001:0:53aa:64c:3c86:13fd:9c9e:4e4f] has joined #lisp 23:04:38 Draggor [~Draggor@adsl-99-142-88-174.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:05:03 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:05:21 xristos [~x@2001:470:8859:cafe:20c:29ff:fe47:788] has joined #lisp 23:05:38 -!- xristos is now known as Guest21325 23:05:58 minion: tell homie about paredit 23:05:59 homie: please look at paredit: a set of Emacs commands, with a minor mode for convenient access to them, for editing balanced S-expressions and a number of higher-level operations on S-expressions, at ; see also the #paredit channel 23:06:15 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 23:08:25 -!- Tosh[Drd] [~Sweater@87.246.131.149] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:09:40 thanks already loaded before redshank 23:09:46 -!- tama_ [~tama@2001:0:53aa:64c:3c86:13fd:9c9e:4e4f] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:12:47 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:14:05 *rtoym* finds yet another bug in sse2 support on cmucl. Dang. 23:17:09 -!- graphitemaster [~DaleWeile@unaffiliated/graphitemaster] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:17:26 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:18:16 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:20:36 -!- NNshag [user@lns-bzn-25-82-254-156-70.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:20:37 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-184-206-100.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:21:39 symbole [~chatzilla@216.214.176.130] has joined #lisp 23:21:59 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-2-148-187.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:22:13 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 23:24:42 timack [~tim@hlfx56-2a-238.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 23:28:23 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:29:16 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 23:29:19 -!- Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Planned down time ^^] 23:29:46 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 23:30:50 rtoym: what is it? 23:32:25 NNshag [user@lns-bzn-24-82-64-189-5.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 23:36:10 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:36:16 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:37:04 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-157-11.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:37:06 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.204.189] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 23:38:29 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:43:45 realpart of a complex number sometimes returned 0. Because the vops overwrote the input register with 0. 23:47:38 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:53:13 analogNoise [~analogNoi@wsip-98-173-194-19.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:53:17 hi all 23:53:30 Ooh, imagpart was also broken. For the same reason. 23:53:36 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 23:54:55 -!- fgump [~gauthamg@188.74.82.177] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:55:04 fgump [~gauthamg@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 23:55:14 -!- serichsen [~user@g227194114.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Good night!] 23:55:23 -!- fgump [~gauthamg@188.74.82.177] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:55:55 fgump [~gauthamg@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 23:56:05 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 23:57:51 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.61.65] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]