00:00:12 yeah, I'm finding them too everywhere in my directories 00:00:13 -!- upward [~upward@modemcable004.209-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:01:41 -!- pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:02:02 pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has joined #lisp 00:02:28 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-170-47.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:02:59 ivan4th: i got to see an N900 in person running quicklisp this week 00:03:05 ivan4th: thanks for your efforts on it! 00:03:31 ivan4th: any luck on getting commonqt to work on n900? 00:04:26 Here are the results for a few calls to local-time's now and today function. http://paste.lisp.org/display/115843 00:04:36 Does this look only weird to me? 00:05:09 Xach: you're welcome. 00:05:10 Does this look weird to me only? 00:05:28 stassats`: not yet, but perhaps I'll have to do it soon 00:06:01 some of newer devices which need to run my control system are going to be OMAP3530-based 00:06:17 goddamn, my system clocks are off again 00:07:15 (I mean, there will be something resembling BeagleBoard instead of x86 pc as the main control machine) 00:07:18 *stassats`* curses ntp 00:08:06 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:08:15 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-170-47.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 00:08:23 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 00:08:40 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:08:43 erc didn't like adjusting time 00:09:21 I think there is a bug in the today function. They forgot to add the offset to the timestamp when converting. I'll have to ask dlowe when he comes by. 00:16:11 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:16:47 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 00:23:18 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu269.queens.ox.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 00:26:13 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host156-185-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:29:13 *lune* wonders why people use languages other than lisp 00:29:37 lune: best tool for the job is probably the reason for the good ones that know lisp 00:29:52 p_l|home: i don't buy into best tool philosophy 00:30:07 lune: maybe because they believe in the holy grail of languages and it stops them from trying other languages? 00:30:14 lune: libraries. ease of installing whatever. ease of finding quality libraries that are still alive. also because it is what they get paid to do. etc. 00:30:16 -!- powerje [~powerje@75.60.217.33] has quit [Quit: powerje] 00:30:21 lune: what about the biggest tool philosophy? 00:30:39 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:30:39 Xach: hrrm now we're getting someplace 00:30:42 Xach: i like tools 00:31:07 Xach: i have no idea what you'e tlaking about 00:31:50 lune: believe it or not, while the Lisps are awesome, there are other good languages out there 00:32:07 Adamant: ruby is reasonable 00:32:17 also lisp won't get you a job at googly 00:32:27 lune: also, the ML family (ML's, Haskell, Scala) 00:32:29 schmrkc: weak sauce i bet Go will 00:32:39 schmrkc: debatable. Go is considered a joke, though 00:32:51 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:32:52 schmrkc: The trick there is to use lisp to build a company that gets /bought out/ by google... 00:32:52 schmrkc: it does get you in the pool for hiring... you're just not allowed to use it there... :) 00:33:09 nyef: or use lisp to build a compiler that targets whatever they think is necessary 00:33:20 p_l|home: the game? 00:33:22 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 00:33:35 schmrkc: the language 00:33:40 lune: never heard of it. 00:33:41 am trying j in the meanwhile 00:33:44 lol 00:34:01 Is there a "div" function or do I have to use / and floor? 00:34:03 lune: I have found places lisp is a very bad choice. so I dunno. 00:34:06 schmrkc: no, the language 00:34:10 p_l|home: never heard of it. 00:34:28 schmrkc: see 00:34:37 well 00:34:43 i dunno 00:35:02 is the jvm like reall super awesome vs say sbcl 00:35:04 cYmen: what does div do? 00:35:07 i don't know 00:35:15 btw, you never have to use / and floor 00:35:21 seems like CL in particular has quite a bit to offer 00:35:22 because (floor (/ a b)) == (floor a b) 00:35:23 lune: if you're doing java then jvm is much better. 00:35:31 schmrkc: i don't want to though 00:35:35 schmrkc: explain clojure 00:35:39 stassats`: (floor (/ number othernumber)) 00:35:43 schmrkc: no one wnats to do java 00:35:46 lune: I haven't used clojure. 00:35:52 cYmen: same as (floor number othernumber) 00:35:52 stassats`: thanks :) 00:35:53 schmrkc: it's why there are so many languages ported to the jvm 00:35:56 lune: Weird. I know some programmers who love their java. 00:35:58 Xach: u 2 00:36:06 no, that one was all stassats 00:36:11 schmrkc: do they also like being human compilers? 00:36:14 -!- pdenno [~user@207-172-151-197.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:36:20 lune: I'll ask 'em next time I see 'em. 00:36:24 ccl from clbuild does not build 00:36:44 i did it manually then there is no x86cl.image 00:36:51 lol 00:37:12 but meanwhile i got the tar.gz and see there is an image included 00:37:16 lune: sbcl is kinda shit if you want to write a GUI app running on 64 bit windows I suppose. 00:37:26 lune: java seems easier then 00:38:10 apl is weird 00:38:11 schmrkc: sbcl is one of many implementations of CL though 00:38:27 all right associative somehow 00:38:29 lol 00:38:34 lune: and if you get hired by some company that has a huge java code base and no lisp. What good is lisp for ya? java seems a better choice there too. 00:38:49 is "ok, i'll make writing gui apps for 64-bit windows on sbcl easier" an option? 00:39:02 schmrkc: so why is java popular? is it because i'ts better technology? 00:39:11 lune: I have no idea whatsoever. 00:39:24 lune: I'm still confused why C beat forth. 00:39:26 i find lisp being the best option always, provided that you're willing time to invest in adjusting it to your needs 00:39:32 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 00:39:40 schmrkc: good question 00:39:50 schmrkc: unix probably 00:39:56 stassats`: I'm having big problems adapting it to real time. 00:40:02 has anybody tried that new stack based language? I forgot the name... 00:40:03 I would like to very much. 00:40:04 and this discussion is boring anyway 00:40:13 forth ? 00:40:14 schmrkc: my guess, is it is more popular because unix is written in c 00:40:15 Factor 00:40:18 schmrkc: and nto forth 00:40:21 I guess I could turn the GC off altogether. 00:40:23 schmrkc: you're just trying not hard enough 00:40:28 factor, right 00:40:36 stassats`: probably. yes. 00:40:51 and fitting it into the lil' device too. 00:40:57 but oh well. 00:41:04 schmrkc: perhaps the jvm is popular, i don't believe thatp eople actuall like java when presented with an laternative but i could believe thatp eople like the portability of the jvm 00:41:05 factor is quite nice, yes. 00:41:06 java suits for real time? 00:41:26 phadthai: I don't think java is very suitable for real time. never tried, but I doubt it. 00:41:35 I also doubt it would be 00:41:46 lune: ya. F# + .Net is a great alternative. 00:41:49 I misunderstood your statements then, sorry :) 00:41:51 schmrkc: it has a realtime GC as an option 00:42:06 Adamant: factor does? since when? 00:42:06 schmrkc: no i mean on the jvm, i doubt it's an accident that there are so many languages ported to the jvm 00:42:13 schmrkc: Java does 00:42:16 oh 00:42:23 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu269.queens.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:42:24 this gets too confusing 00:42:30 Well maybe java is great then. 00:42:31 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-119-127.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:42:49 *schmrkc* has written like 5 LOC java total. 00:42:54 schmrkc: it's easier if you seperate the VM from the language 00:43:03 there's a realtime GC variant of LW 00:43:04 *phadthai* mostly used java in its old, slow days 00:43:07 lune: mostly it's because it has great performance and runs everywhere 00:43:14 p_l|home: I will look that up. 00:43:18 Libet: the JVM? or Java 00:43:25 Libet: i dont' find them synonymous 00:43:31 p_l|home: no hopes of it running on a tiny AVR-kit though, huh? 00:43:32 the JVM, i hate Java the language 00:43:36 schmrkc: or so they suggested once - it was "per case basis", though 00:43:40 Libet: nod 00:43:45 and no, it won't fit on AVR, I fear 00:43:52 lisp fails me again \o/ 00:43:57 on one of those ARM-based ones... well, if you ported the compiler 00:44:06 LtU needs an irc channel so i can bitch some place appropriate 00:44:07 I once read about experimental JVM extensions for dynamic languages, that might be good for clojure and ABCL eventually 00:44:09 it'd be nice even on x86 though. for audiowork. 00:44:11 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 00:44:19 schmrkc: true 00:44:20 asddsaasddsaasddsaasddsaasddsa 00:44:37 pkhuong_: i disagree 00:44:38 pkhuong_: stealing my resync sequence? :P 00:44:54 phadthai: yes, it's being extended with support for invokedynamic and some other interesting stuff 00:44:56 Xach: thx for QL btw 00:45:03 *cough* 00:45:23 -!- pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:45:50 phadthai: this may be of interest: http://openjdk.java.net/projects/mlvm/ 00:45:54 lune: no problem 00:46:23 ah yes that was it, thanks for the link Libet 00:48:15 gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:48:31 good night 00:48:35 -!- Libet [~Libet@83.33.151.140] has quit [] 00:49:22 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 00:50:37 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 00:52:39 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.235.211] has left #lisp 00:56:33 yeah, good night from me as well 00:58:30 wuj [~wuj@pool-74-108-204-117.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:58:49 does lisp really compile down to lisp ? 00:59:00 or c or java in the end ? 00:59:39 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:00:01 it compiles down to ether 01:01:20 i don't know of how much of that philosphy reamins true in the case of ccl or so 01:02:35 -!- xan_ [~xan@p1089-ipbf15tokaisakaetozai.aichi.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:05:11 homie: lisp compiles to "whatever the compiler intends" 01:05:15 homie: whatever the target is 01:05:17 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050066213.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 01:05:18 p_l|home: heh 01:05:57 i want lisp which is compiled to cookies 01:06:09 for SBCL and CCL it's the native code, though I know of at least one experimental branch of SBCL which had an alternative target - LLVM 01:06:10 you saw that toll house commercial i take it 01:06:15 now you expect lisp to love you 01:06:22 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-11-47-100.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: Arrrr!] 01:06:34 Lisp is a harsh misstress :P 01:06:38 i don't watch commercials, you insensitive clod! 01:06:44 lol 01:07:16 but it has it's own p-code not ? 01:08:01 homie: what do you mean by p-code? It's not pascal :) 01:08:50 so no intermediary binary ? just native ? 01:08:55 SBCL and CCL don't use bytecode, afaik (didn't CMUCL include one, though?) 01:09:09 aah 01:09:16 usually there's a bytecode for faster interpretation, some implementations also use an intermediate bytecode which can then be compiled to the target 01:09:29 now clear why cmucl was running a bit slower 01:09:36 erm 01:09:38 I'm not sure if sbcl uses one in interpreted mode, I've only used its compiler 01:09:38 eheh 01:09:42 SBCL and CCL compile directly everything 01:10:05 "almost everything" 01:10:20 there's an optional interprted mode if I remember, but I've not used it 01:10:35 -!- Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:10:48 though I recall the evaluator being available (it got removed after the split, then included again, afaik) - so, other than simple EVAL calls (and depending on version, even those), all first gets compiled 01:10:59 Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 01:11:39 Version, and SB-EXT:*EVALUATOR-MODE*, if memory serves. 01:12:37 right. I just remember that for some time (and at least when I started using it) there was no EVALUATOR-MODE and even EVAL got compiled... I think 01:12:46 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-10-221.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:14:11 eval is compiled in most cases now too 01:15:07 homie: see? 01:15:28 eval? compiled? in the same sentance? 01:15:33 *p_l|home* would hardly call IR1 or IR2 bytecode, so there is no intermediate binary 01:16:32 adu: yes 01:16:39 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757bff.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:17:46 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:18:44 of course, getting a disassembly from EVAL is slightly harder... 01:18:52 -!- Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:20:19 p_l|home: it's just (defun eval (form) (funcall (compile nil `(lambda () ,form)))) 01:21:38 hmmm... it's funny to see lack of actual operation in a disassemble (nor the result) yet still see the correct result returned 01:22:23 p_l|home: i can't make sense out of that sentence 01:23:15 stassats`: nah, I just compiled (lambda () (+ 4 5)) (which of course returns 9) and then called disassemble on it 01:24:12 got two moves, clc, pop and ret, and none resembled what I looked for (though I guess it might look differently if you include tag bits.. hmm...) 01:24:15 i don't see what's so funny about it 01:25:09 stassats`: nah, I just expected to either see an add operation somewhere (this is default setting, not optimized) or literal 9 01:25:37 ok, now I see 01:25:43 p_l|home: One of the moves was... 36 or 72 to EDX/RDX? 01:25:47 it was tag bits 01:25:51 yeah 01:25:52 #b1001_00_ 01:25:58 just checked it 01:26:19 last 3 bits being tag, right? 01:26:34 three, but two 01:26:38 (amd64) 01:26:45 The bottom 4 bits are the lowtag on x86-64, 3 for fixnums. 01:26:55 yeah 01:26:56 Bottom 3 bits are the lowtag on 32-bit targets, 2 for fixnums. 01:27:08 I forgot about those when looking in the disassembly 01:27:11 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@c-66-41-249-30.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:27:11 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 01:28:08 you can say that fixnums have 3 tag-bits too, which overlap with a fixnum itself 01:31:49 -!- zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:32:34 Okay, yes, the fixnum lowtag is actually x00 or x000. 01:33:02 Just like the other-immediate lowtag (widetag-lowtag) is actually x10 or xx10. 01:33:13 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@218.82.22.43] has joined #lisp 01:33:22 how are wide-fixnums coming up? 01:33:41 Haven't done anything with them recently. 01:34:16 I'm fairly certain there's a type-system problem that isn't showing up in testing, but haven't sat down to bring everything up-to-date and actually track it down. 01:35:54 -!- tij [~tim@li101-203.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:35:54 factor's gui stuff is nice 01:35:58 even the listener 01:36:01 lol 01:36:04 oh my 01:40:47 -!- LiamH [~nobody@pool-141-156-214-211.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:41:30 homie: nicer to use emacs for it. 01:42:05 jup i see 01:44:56 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-170-47.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Disconnected by services] 01:44:56 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@catv-89-133-170-47.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 01:44:57 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 01:48:28 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:49:04 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:49:24 factor's listener is what CLIM is /supposed/ to be. 01:49:43 oh 01:50:06 ok then clims default is not themed 01:50:26 whereas factor's listener is colored and all 01:50:42 looks very smooth 01:52:41 slava has done very impressive work with factor in very short time imo. 01:52:58 well "the factor team" together I suppose 01:53:42 dborba [~dborba@pool-74-105-202-55.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:53:50 very short? 01:54:33 yes 01:54:35 ? 01:54:38 -!- wuj [~wuj@pool-74-108-204-117.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:55:03 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:55:05 2004 is it? 01:55:09 that's just 6 years. 01:55:14 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.57.219] has joined #lisp 01:55:29 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 01:55:31 wuj [~wuj@pool-74-108-204-117.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:55:33 i don't see how 6 years is "very short" 01:55:38 hmm ok. 01:55:46 seems very short to me. 01:56:14 it kinda is... and I somehow get the feeling they've got a more organized community :D 01:56:53 I guess we could kill 'em. 01:57:04 lol 01:57:13 stassats`: I guess you're in your twenties... a few more years and 6 years will seem to be 'very short'... :) 01:57:43 ah the twenties.. If I knew then waht I know now... 01:57:57 maybe it's short for a hobby project 02:00:25 and factor appeared in 2003 02:00:54 aha 02:00:56 7 years! 02:01:08 *p_l|home* notes that we have ~292 nicks here... remove the 5 that are obvious dupes/bots, that's 287 (possible) people. Now, if we got all of those to work actively on some lisp projects... 02:01:10 I'll change it to just short then. 02:01:19 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:01:27 short works for me! 02:01:28 282, to be correct (missed a logging bot thre) 02:02:09 though still, 7 years feels like eons ago to me 02:02:19 hmm 02:02:32 I have no real concept of time tbh. 7 years ago feels like just yesterday. 02:02:50 Lisa here came reminding me that it was our 5th or 6th anniversary just the other day. 02:02:57 (4 months ago really) 02:03:14 odd feeling. feels like I met her yesterday. 02:04:06 lol @ logarithmic time perception 02:04:31 -!- cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:05:09 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:05:28 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 02:05:35 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 02:05:43 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Client Quit] 02:05:43 cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 02:05:56 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Client Quit] 02:06:17 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 02:06:37 damn, my system clocks are still drifting away 02:07:26 *p_l|home* would still kinda rewind time at least 5 years back 02:08:02 p_l|home: that's cheating 02:08:04 15 'smore like it 02:08:09 or somewhere back to 1998 02:08:24 dys` [~andreas@krlh-5f73443a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 02:08:26 -!- dys [~andreas@krlh-5f7273c4.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:08:48 is this some "go back in time and prevent java" thing ? 02:09:08 go back and party like it's 1998? 02:09:28 schmrkc: no, that would require going back to 1994 02:09:39 that'd been great. '98 was a great year. 02:09:58 *stassats* doesn't remember it 02:10:00 stassats: can't party much in 3rd class primary school 02:10:10 not sure I could handle the same amounts of alcohol these days :) 02:10:18 p_l|home: just bring some tequila with you 02:11:13 lol 02:11:42 it would be hilarious, I guess... 10yo kids + tequila 02:12:36 i don't know, it's still hilarious to me 02:13:41 *p_l|home* never drinks enough to feel buzzed 02:13:45 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:14:03 you go straight into a blackout? 02:14:31 stassats: no, I simply avoid drinking such amounts... always kinda feared what I'll do 02:15:07 i usually don't remember that anyway, so no problems 02:15:32 stassats: yeah, but others might. Or you might end up doing something that would go national news :P 02:16:00 p_l|home: it's a very good way to get some info for reflecting on your real self... :) 02:16:09 Maybe you should write code when you are really drunk. 02:16:29 lol 02:16:40 attila_lendvai: usually I gather such info about others :D 02:17:21 schmrkc: i can hardly type in such condition 02:17:23 I fear my darker side would get more visible (I once got called on this by a student when explaining that they really shouldn't look into darknets) 02:17:29 reflecting on others is Somone Else's Problem (read: theirs... :) 02:17:31 stassats: Me neither. 02:17:44 maybe it's a good thing, you'll think more before every line 02:17:52 attila_lendvai: till you want to use it, even if only for personal amusement 02:18:23 p_l|home: I vote for your darkside needs to come out and you also need to record the whole evening and put on youtube for #lisp enjoyment. 02:19:08 evening of doing something great in Lisp? 02:19:09 *attila_lendvai* goes into the darknet of the bedroom... good night 02:19:17 night 02:19:21 attila_lendvai: 'night 02:19:38 stassats: I'd probably need LSD instead of alcohol 02:19:45 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-170-47.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:20:00 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 02:20:04 lsd is a bitch to code on until the last couple of hours 02:20:37 at work... 02:21:02 lsd at work only works if you're a musician :( 02:21:37 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@189.66.103.152] has joined #lisp 02:21:38 or a journalist 02:22:03 oh true true 02:22:14 -!- c|mell [~cmell@88-96-216-86.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:23:37 *p_l|home* meanwhile found today (well, yesterday) that university decided to open a programming venture staffing students 02:24:05 Java and RoR, with apparently rather Agile accent (continuous integration, testing etc.) 02:24:17 maybe I could get some Lisp there ^_^ 02:24:33 -!- lusory [~bart@bb119-74-155-71.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:24:44 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@host86-141-209-190.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:26:59 -!- timack [~tim@hlfx60-2a-213.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:27:57 -!- leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.20] 02:29:16 do it! 02:33:17 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:33:35 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 02:34:08 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Client Quit] 02:35:29 *p_l|home* is tempted to do some analysis of the logs to find out exactly how many *active* people are in this channel 02:36:24 what does *active* mean ? 02:37:10 c|mell [~cmell@88-96-216-86.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 02:38:18 homie: actually talks from time to time 02:38:24 not necessarily everyday 02:38:48 but I am pretty sure I haven't seen any activity from some of the nicks 02:38:56 oh and i thought somone discussing code or contributing to some project or so 02:39:03 homie: well, that too 02:39:16 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-178-106.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 02:39:51 but that's higher level of activity 02:41:39 Inaimathi [4c4207e9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.66.7.233] has joined #lisp 02:42:21 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@189.66.103.152] has left #lisp 02:46:41 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:47:21 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 02:48:05 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.103.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:51:20 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:52:09 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 02:54:33 puuuh, i started the unit-tests for factor 02:54:40 it takes looooooong 02:54:41 lol 02:55:21 especially the simd bits, when you have a player running or so 02:55:53 got only two minor parser test errors 02:56:05 at least till now 02:56:09 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:57:38 homie: You might like #factor 02:59:03 -!- Inaimathi [4c4207e9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.66.7.233] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:00:31 not yet later yes 03:01:28 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:09:55 iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@61.43.139.4] has joined #lisp 03:12:47 -!- az [~az@p4FE4FCF9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:14:41 cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.0.240] has joined #lisp 03:20:00 az [~az@p4FE4EA7D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:23:19 _mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 03:24:47 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:27:43 -!- _mathrick is now known as mathrick 03:30:05 -!- cmpitg is now known as help 03:30:17 -!- help is now known as cmpitg 03:30:24 -!- TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-76-175-244-227.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:30:31 TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-76-175-244-227.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:31:14 -!- vandemar [cohen@2001:470:1f10:56b::4] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:31:58 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:32:15 vandemar [syndicate@2001:470:1f10:56b::4] has joined #lisp 03:34:24 Xarver_ [~Xarver@cpe-76-175-244-227.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:34:27 -!- TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-76-175-244-227.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:37:25 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.0.240] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:37:53 cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.0.240] has joined #lisp 03:40:42 -!- Xarver_ is now known as TheLolrus 03:42:45 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 03:43:15 heh. A father sends his twin children to the school for the first time: Now remember what I told you. twins: Don't kill the teachers. Don't kill the students. Don't kill the lunch lady. Don't kill the janitor. Don't kill the hall monitor. Don't kill the librarian. Don't kill the principal. Don't kill the vice-principal. Right. 03:43:20 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Night all] 03:43:38 sounds like something to use in NaNoWriMo (yeah, I know, OT, but no-one is talking... ^_-) 03:45:38 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 03:46:59 what is NaNoWriMo ? 03:48:13 -!- iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@61.43.139.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:48:50 Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has joined #lisp 03:49:42 yes what is nanowrimo? 03:50:48 National Nover Writing Month, aka "write a 50k word-long novel during November" 03:51:52 you "win" if you manage to get 50k length for your novel in one month (starting on November 1st, ending November 30th) 03:52:15 how do I make money on it? 03:53:37 schmrkc: by getting yourself to write, which might produce something that (after refining) might be publishable 03:56:32 wbooze` [~user@xdsl-84-44-142-131.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:56:37 homie` [~user@xdsl-84-44-142-131.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:58:36 -!- logia_th [~nmo@83.37.117.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:58:53 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-84-44-252-95.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:58:55 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-84-44-252-95.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:59:09 interesting. 03:59:13 and it has to be a novel? 03:59:31 I think so 03:59:34 too bad 03:59:39 nowl [~nowl@c-71-233-2-216.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:59:43 what did you have in mind? :) 03:59:45 novels are incredibly boring to read :) 03:59:48 well something interesting. 03:59:57 like you know.. a book on anatomy or something. 04:00:04 or maths or something fun 04:00:06 but a NOVEL!? 04:00:08 my gosh 04:00:25 indeed! 04:03:05 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 04:03:42 schmrkc: make math novel! 04:03:49 (anatomy novels are dozen a dime :P) 04:05:12 really? 04:05:39 schmrkc: yes. You can recognize them usually by the 18+ marking 04:05:51 felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has joined #lisp 04:06:05 mind you, some of the more advanced internals are less commonly depicted and might require looking into internet archives 04:06:19 -!- TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-76-175-244-227.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:09:22 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:11:50 leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has joined #lisp 04:12:57 I often find the code inside #| |# not properly highlighted for example ( is in red. Is there a fix? 04:13:35 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:15:00 schmrkc: count the story of someone who discovers the source code of the universe (and of course, it's written in CL) :) 04:15:23 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 04:17:31 he then adds a set of macrolets and hacks some setf expansions to transform the universe 04:18:43 =) 04:20:20 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 04:21:59 ... sounds like origin of magi in Nasuverse 04:23:48 (where such an act is possible, but requires sacrificing yourself... assuming you manage to avoid the Counter Force) 04:27:20 -!- wuj [~wuj@pool-74-108-204-117.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:29:18 -!- setheus_ [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:30:38 what is the counter force ? 04:31:04 humasect: the universe's security system trying to prevent your privilege escalation exploit 04:31:13 ahhh=) cool 04:31:41 sometimes done in the form of summoning some "hero" to wipe you out :) 04:32:01 hah 04:32:37 humasect: said hero might be veeery different from what you know from the legends, though... like King Arthur being female :P 04:33:09 like a false or impersonator ? 04:33:56 well, there was one guy who didn't actually exist but was created out of public faith in his existence - it was still possible to summon him 04:34:05 dnm [~dnm@c-68-34-57-169.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:37:31 btw, there's a series of novels where a programmer gets summoned into a world of magic, and invents a new kind of magic based on Forth and Lisp :) 04:37:49 (sounds kinda like nyef's SBCL-OS 04:37:52 ) 04:38:28 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.57.219] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:38:44 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.57.219] has joined #lisp 04:40:17 ahh like a celebrity, the hero thing 04:40:34 hey what is that series called? =) 04:41:22 Good morning everyone! 04:41:54 hello =) 04:42:00 speaking of loops, 04:42:06 have you heard about the one you haven't heard about? 04:42:07 What do people do when their ISPs won't allow IRC? 04:42:31 i think they ssh to another machine 04:42:35 beach: I use SSH 04:43:29 I thought someone told me about a site that was specifically for allowing people to connect to IRC. I must have misremembered. 04:44:01 But yeah, ssh to a machine that allows it will fix it. I do that sometimes myself. 04:44:30 humasect: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Cook <--- author http://www.baen.com/library/rcook.htm <--- first two volumes (legit) online 04:45:18 beach: I use (used - It's temporarily switched off till I send payment) http://rootnode.net 04:45:18 p_l|home: wow, cool! i never thought about this kind of book before =) 04:45:57 shell server + torrent server (for download, not seeding) + mail + dns + web hosting of various kinds (few different servers optimised for different kind of sites) 04:46:28 if you don't have filtered UDP, there's OpenVPN as well 04:47:04 p_l|home: Nice! And you ssh it? 04:47:37 Sorry, I should read the instructions... 04:48:15 iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@61.43.139.4] has joined #lisp 04:48:30 heh, happens. But yes, most of the services are done through shell access (it started as a sort of "shared dedicated server", so it's mostly for people who don't need support) 04:51:14 humasect: btw, the main character of the wizardry series ends up using "Emac" as an editor :D 04:51:47 hah! nice =) 04:51:59 was that close or similar or around the time of ascention ? 04:52:22 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.57.219] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:55:38 (mind you, "Wizardry series" and what is collectively called "Nasuverse" after the author, are separate things) - Emac got used after the main character of Wizardry managed to write down most of his system :) 04:56:11 _mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 04:56:31 -!- _mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:57:00 _mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 04:57:49 hehe, ah =) 04:58:26 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:59:09 "Nasuverse" is a very weird world, where the information (well, "concept") is more important than actual physics - that's how all the supernatural happens there. 05:01:31 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-50-148.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:02:08 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:03:10 -!- srolls [~user@c-76-126-221-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:15:26 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 05:20:52 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 05:23:18 -!- _mathrick is now known as mathrick 05:25:14 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:25:55 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:28:03 -!- Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:29:33 p_l|home: hmm that sounds a lot like our world =) 05:29:59 Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 05:31:39 not to the point of constructing devices that have probabilities of success at 1 05:36:16 -!- Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:45:50 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:51:32 ace4016 [~ace4016@adsl-32-11-182.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 05:52:38 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 05:59:27 hm=) almost! 06:02:29 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-10-221.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 06:03:50 xan_ [~xan@p1089-ipbf15tokaisakaetozai.aichi.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 06:05:01 humasect: still, nothing that can have a description like "sword of promised victory" which basically means that if used right, it will cause a win. No matter what 06:05:44 hmm, hmm =) i have seen some miraculous things done with mental effort alone 06:06:51 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-24-28-30-165.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:12:49 humasect: or a spear, that had the ability to always pierce the heart, no matter armor, evasion etc. (owned by some Irish mythical hero - the sword of promised victory is Excalibur) 06:14:17 heheh 06:14:26 it aims itself ? 06:14:56 i think in our world we would need to aim things, since a spear would not know the intent of the wielder. and because of this, the stronger the intent, the greater the accuracy 06:14:59 (mental focus) 06:15:12 aims itself and strikes true (when the ability was actually used) 06:15:22 but yes, target had to be mentally defined 06:19:17 -!- iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@61.43.139.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:19:26 -!- skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:19:52 hmm is there a smarter way for : ,(macroexpand-1 '(somemacro ...)) 06:20:53 iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@59.10.182.29] has joined #lisp 06:27:11 skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #lisp 06:28:11 iNtERrUp_ [~interrupt@61.43.139.4] has joined #lisp 06:28:18 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:29:18 -!- iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@59.10.182.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:35:03 pavelludiq [~quassel@83.222.190.196] has joined #lisp 06:36:30 hi everyone and hu 06:36:32 humasect: 06:36:32 :) 06:36:42 hey dto~ 06:36:47 *humasect* tangled in macros 06:36:47 anyone seen Fare lately? 06:37:00 *dto* brushes away some of the macros from hu 06:37:01 humasect: 06:37:22 humasect: someone told me i look like the cable guy in the video. some comic redneck guy 06:37:42 hmm 06:37:48 ohh larry something 06:37:51 yes 06:37:52 hah 06:37:55 no one looks the same. =) 06:37:59 ok i guess i'm the only american who didn't know 06:38:08 people say i look like all kinds of things hah 06:38:48 so our compo is on 06:39:00 http://lispgames.ath.cx/index.php/2010_October_Lisp_Game_Dev_Competition 06:39:05 humasect: are you doing anything? 06:39:33 !! 06:39:43 what about the 4DRL that started just yesterday ! 06:42:14 humasect: you sure you need to use the result of the expanded macro explicitely there? As macros should also recursively expand at compile time 06:43:50 phadthai: i am trying to figure how to use macros and parenscript together. i think i have not wrapped my head entirely around the concept yet 06:47:22 They should work together naturally. 06:47:40 hmm 06:47:52 In the worst case you might need to use `(... ,x) in the usual way to inject something into a quoted region. 06:48:49 Check the difference between ps* and ps, perhaps. 06:49:02 oh! 06:49:39 i see that i am doing (ps (macroexpand-1 `(progn ...))) already. hm 06:56:09 ahh i cannot understand the difference between ps and ps*, nor compile and eval 06:57:36 A matter of quoting. 06:59:32 yeah i see =) it will be clear soon enough 07:02:27 -!- dys` is now known as dys 07:04:21 daniel_ [~daniel@p5B326445.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:07:56 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5B327C7D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:13:42 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Read error: 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[~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 08:33:32 redsord7 [~khiempham@115.72.199.35] has joined #lisp 08:35:12 -!- redsord7 [~khiempham@115.72.199.35] has left #lisp 08:35:41 redsord7 [~khiempham@115.72.199.35] has joined #lisp 08:35:45 -!- redsord7 [~khiempham@115.72.199.35] has left #lisp 08:39:43 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-36-82-251-15-245.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:40:45 loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 08:45:42 -!- zomgbie_ [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:45:42 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:53:31 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-23-82-248-120-55.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 08:56:30 -!- leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.20] 08:57:08 -!- iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@59.10.182.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:58:21 iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@59.10.182.29] has joined #lisp 09:00:23 -!- tama [~tama@adsl-99-129-156-133.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:02:23 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 09:04:50 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:05:27 Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:05:45 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 09:05:54 -!- moah [~gnu@188.109.207.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:06:42 So why is it that we no longer get automatic announcements from lisppaste here? 09:06:54 beach: spam 09:07:09 I see. 09:08:12 beach: it could only be enabled again, if active maintenance is going to run the race with the spammers 09:08:54 How does the spam manifest itself? 09:09:41 A bot posts stuff to the website with subjects that the spammer wants to post in the channels 09:09:45 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:10:20 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 09:10:24 How do they get around the captcha? 09:10:52 the current one: no idea. the old one (at the time the bot did this) was always 'lisp' 09:11:19 So perhaps this is no longer a problem? 09:11:26 yes. 09:11:32 that's very well possible. 09:13:59 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:14:06 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755b4d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:14:09 nyef and I stepped up to do lisppaste maintenance. 09:14:27 however, since then, I've not yet been able to take on the task. 09:14:52 there were quite a few things I'm trying to get done on abcl. 09:15:08 also, I'm working on implementing c-l.net download stats. 09:16:03 No apologies necessary. I understand. 09:16:16 I still do intend to pick it up though. 09:16:25 but I'm not able to give timelines. 09:16:40 arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 09:16:43 -!- iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@59.10.182.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:17:07 ehu: the current captcha is completely a non-issue for spammers 09:17:24 p_l|home: as in completely well parseable? 09:17:39 ehu: as in "high-school OCR level" 09:17:55 p_l|home: It's not a picture though. 09:18:05 p_l|home: it's a set of DIV tags 09:18:34 ooh, that makes it more interesting 09:18:43 :-) 09:19:08 starseek1r [~starseeke@BZ.BZFLAG.BZ] has joined #lisp 09:20:18 nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 09:20:25 bobbysmith0071 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 09:21:14 -!- starseeker [~starseeke@BZ.BZFLAG.BZ] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:21:16 Perhaps we should have some Lisp questions such as "what does (typep "123" 'number) evaluate to" or "how many values does the GETHASH function return?" 09:21:20 stis_ [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 09:21:23 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:21:24 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 09:21:26 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:21:41 beach: :-) 09:21:46 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:21:57 that'd reduce the number of interested channels by quite a few, I'd say. 09:22:05 then we have that problem solved too. 09:22:12 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 09:22:12 beach: simple math questions work quite well - so far no-one figured to use STUDENT in their spam engine 09:22:36 p_l|home: I can see that. And that would be channel-independent. 09:22:57 p_l|home: And they could be generated automatically. 09:23:40 the alt-text for lisppaste captcha already does that 09:24:10 Does what? 09:24:35 ask user to perform multiplication instead of reading the captcha 09:25:13 Really? How does one get to see that? 09:26:05 beach: hover your pointer over it 09:26:46 Nice! 09:27:33 we could also just use recaptcha and offload the whole issue to someone else :D 09:27:51 hmm. could we do something like that in the RPC interface? 09:28:26 I believe there are quite a few people who want to use lisppaste with Emacs 09:28:56 ehu: is the RPC interface using any sort of captcha? AFAIK not :) 09:29:20 Is that what the spammers use then? 09:29:59 nope 09:30:26 the spammers probably didn't even notice the channels, though I don't have any spam samples to check 09:31:25 (the bots simply look for anything that looks like input form similar to comment box in a blog) 09:31:46 That doesn't explain how it gets around the captcha. 09:32:03 Well, it's a constant phrase, isn't it? 09:32:11 Not anymore. 09:32:47 beach: before, it was a constant phrase. If it was an image and looked the way it looks now, it would still get through - they use either OCR or various mechanical-turk style approaches 09:33:58 one example is shipping encountered captcha to another site (usually porn) and make people solve it for more content 09:34:29 Wow! That sounds quite elaborate! 09:35:07 And hard to prevent as well. 09:37:03 How about having the paster solve a simple equation with a single variable, such as: What is x in 3x + 12 = 21? 09:38:50 I've seen such approaches 09:39:07 recaptcha, btw, while not perfect, helps a higher goal 09:39:18 is it not suitable to have the paster enter their correct irc name when pasting, and to prompt the bot in the appropriate channel? 09:40:03 they basically take words from ocr books, usually one the got clearly OCRed and one that was "unsure", and have you sent feedback this way 09:40:05 To see that the person is in that channel? That sounds like a good idea! 09:40:57 arbscht: That way, banning someone also prevents pasting. 09:40:59 beach: we could also use some statistics or even OAuth 1.0a with bot asking "unproven" people by private message 09:41:08 beach: right 09:42:31 p_l|home: What arbscht suggests sounds good to me though. 09:43:05 Bronsa [~bronsa@host156-185-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 09:43:34 beach: yeah, but asking a confirmation stops people from using other people's nick in malice 09:44:32 -!- wvdschel [~wim@unaffiliated/yukito] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:44:33 Sure. 09:46:26 iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@59.10.183.249] has joined #lisp 09:50:17 tama [~tama@2001:0:53aa:64c:2cb8:2e07:9c7e:6c6b] has joined #lisp 09:51:07 -!- mal__ [~mal@www2.wimmekes.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:52:58 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu269.queens.ox.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 09:53:01 mal__ [~mal@www2.wimmekes.net] has joined #lisp 09:56:10 p_l|home: this is not a general bot. it's someone / some group who are continually trying to get their spam onto Freenode Irc 09:57:18 -!- drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:01:03 ahhh 10:01:26 can we botbait them? 10:01:37 and isn't spam illegal in some places? 10:02:38 an interesting way to deal with spammers was to increase their costs 10:03:31 -!- iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@59.10.183.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:03:35 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 10:04:04 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:04:56 btw, regarding RPC... is it conceivable to request RPC users to identify themselves to lisppaste? With lisppaste-native account or any OpenID/Oauth combo 10:06:49 -!- ace4016 [~ace4016@adsl-32-11-182.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [] 10:06:52 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-208.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:08:55 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:12:35 -!- c|mell [~cmell@88-96-216-86.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:12:46 iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@59.10.183.249] has joined #lisp 10:16:46 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 10:19:04 ecraven [~user@140.78.42.213] has joined #lisp 10:19:50 -!- iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@59.10.183.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:20:57 iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@59.10.183.249] has joined #lisp 10:21:07 -!- mal__ [~mal@www2.wimmekes.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:23:02 mal__ [~mal@www2.wimmekes.net] has joined #lisp 10:25:39 p_l|home: from what I understand, everybody can set up an OAuth service? 10:27:21 p_l|home: I don't really like the option of lisppaste-native. It implies yet another user-management system. 10:28:09 ehu: yes. In this case, it would be considered a three-point configuration, where human is one point, emacs another, and lisppaste the third 10:29:19 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:29:49 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:33:29 drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 10:39:40 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@pD9E257C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:40:53 iNtERrUp_ [~interrupt@61.43.139.4] has joined #lisp 10:43:01 -!- iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@59.10.183.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:50:18 dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 10:50:50 -!- jhuni [~jhuni@udp217774uds.hawaiiantel.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:53:05 Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 10:53:56 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 10:57:41 -!- Salamander__ is now known as Salamander 10:58:53 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:59:30 tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 11:02:04 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-76-52.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 11:04:06 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-63-254.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:07:08 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:08:48 jan247 [~jan247@180.191.68.57] has joined #lisp 11:08:48 -!- jan247 [~jan247@180.191.68.57] has quit [Changing host] 11:08:48 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 11:12:05 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:12:27 what are my options for reading audio from a standard USB microphone into lisp? i'm going to use CL-V4L2 for the video, but not sure about the mic... 11:14:40 Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050064008.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:21:35 dto: on linux, ALSA 11:21:51 katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-209-215.dhcp.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 11:21:51 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-209-215.dhcp.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 11:21:51 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 11:22:39 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-76-52.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:27:14 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:28:09 Guthur [~Guthur@host86-140-191-137.range86-140.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:29:28 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-247-89.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 11:31:10 -!- iNtERrUp_ [~interrupt@61.43.139.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:32:18 fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-084-056-181-159.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 11:32:27 openal or sdl may be able to record for xplatform 11:34:21 iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@61.43.139.4] has joined #lisp 11:36:17 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:39:38 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host156-185-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:39:56 Bronsa [~bronsa@host156-185-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 11:40:53 -!- drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:41:05 moah [~gnu@188.109.207.34] has joined #lisp 11:42:36 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host156-185-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 11:43:08 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:43:46 Bronsa [~bronsa@host156-185-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 11:44:55 Yuuhi [benni@p5483C934.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:45:35 alright i figured out parenscript macros. there are special forms for them. =) "defpsmacro" and so on. 11:49:51 _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 11:50:26 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-164-111.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:56:52 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 11:58:32 -!- tama [~tama@2001:0:53aa:64c:2cb8:2e07:9c7e:6c6b] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:00:04 humasect: cool, i'll look into openal 12:02:52 paredit! 12:03:22 :) 12:03:52 tama [~tama@2001:0:53aa:64c:2cb8:2e07:9c7e:6c6b] has joined #lisp 12:03:59 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-119-151.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 12:10:37 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-25-78.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:12:54 upward [~upward@modemcable004.209-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 12:16:42 pavelludiq_ [~quassel@83.222.190.196] has joined #lisp 12:16:51 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@83.222.190.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:18:18 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-100-217.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 12:18:51 -!- loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:20:50 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-247-89.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:21:24 -!- karbak [~akr@kar.vps.bitfolk.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:21:51 karbak [~akr@kar.vps.bitfolk.com] has joined #lisp 12:22:03 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 12:22:28 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 12:22:52 Jabberwock [~Jens@f050064008.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:23:21 -!- felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:25:51 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050064008.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:28:34 -!- vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-eqrjdjngpbyddfpc] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:28:40 vert2_ [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/session] has joined #lisp 12:29:07 -!- vert2_ is now known as vert 12:29:25 -!- vert is now known as vert2 12:29:36 -!- vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/session] has quit [Changing host] 12:29:36 vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-nqqofrdaisafhmvf] has joined #lisp 12:29:41 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.235.211] has joined #lisp 12:33:46 -!- foom [~jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:34:10 foom [~jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:35:49 gor[e] [U2FsdGVkX1@79.165.187.105] has joined #lisp 12:38:18 -!- dys [~andreas@krlh-5f73443a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:39:15 dys [~andreas@krlh-5f73443a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 12:43:55 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@189.66.53.241] has joined #lisp 12:48:03 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:48:31 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 12:48:56 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-170-47.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 12:59:11 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 13:00:48 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host156-185-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:06:09 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 13:11:52 grumps [~user@c-71-194-138-249.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:16:08 -!- grumps [~user@c-71-194-138-249.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:16:29 grumps [~user@c-71-194-138-249.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:17:49 pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has joined #lisp 13:18:06 drdo [~drdo@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 13:18:20 -!- tama [~tama@2001:0:53aa:64c:2cb8:2e07:9c7e:6c6b] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:19:19 -!- drdo [~drdo@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 13:19:49 damn clisp doesn't like :unspecific in make-pathname... 13:19:51 drdo [~drdo@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 13:29:06 there are no portable toplevel lexical variables, are there? 13:37:14 -!- az [~az@p4FE4EA7D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:40:15 pmd: indeed. 13:40:27 -!- grumps [~user@c-71-194-138-249.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:40:55 p_l|home: there is let 13:41:14 p_l|home: what do you mean? Toplevel lexical variables can be implemented with symbol macros. (symbol macro bindings are lexical). 13:41:15 davazp [~user@201.Red-88-6-206.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:41:19 p_l|home: or you were trying to create a closure for defun? 13:41:37 az [~az@p5796CC94.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:41:51 (I mean, toplevel, global lexical variables). 13:41:55 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@189.66.53.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:42:52 So how would I go about definining a toplevel nonspecial variable? 13:43:31 (setf variable value) ; not portable 13:44:08 Undefined behaviour. 13:44:16 that's what i said 13:44:26 So is there a portable way? 13:44:42 (legal, without compiler warnings and all that :)) 13:44:54 No. 13:45:17 Uhm. Thx. 13:45:30 why would you need it? 13:46:02 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b3c:d921:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 13:46:28 Just wanted to satisfy my curiosity (the thought came up when learning about special variables). 13:47:06 Not that I stood upon some concrete need of such a variable (yet). 13:47:25 I figure one could wrap the entire package in a LET or similar... 13:47:28 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b3c:d921:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:47:31 Inaimathi [4c4207e9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.66.7.233] has joined #lisp 13:47:46 if one is crazy enough 13:48:10 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b3c:d921:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 13:48:34 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b3c:d921:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:49:06 *p_l|home* is 13:49:14 though I'm not using toplevel lexical variables 13:49:20 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b3c:d921:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 13:49:25 I might need to learn about environments, though 13:49:45 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b3c:d921:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:50:32 too bad there is nothing to learn about them 13:50:48 what good reasons are there for closured top-level functions? 13:51:18 pmd: to have closured top-level functions 13:51:42 pmd`` [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has joined #lisp 13:51:52 pmd: I'm building a language that compiles to CL and which has to have perfect interop with CL. I'm just covering all my bases 13:52:50 pmd``` [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has joined #lisp 13:54:03 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:54:06 -!- pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:54:07 -!- pmd`` [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:54:16 nick pmd 13:54:20 -!- pmd``` is now known as pmd 13:55:00 stassats: what good is a closured defun? what advantage is there to using global variables? 13:55:13 it's faster 13:55:30 the other alternative to closures is load-time-value 13:55:35 and it's local 13:55:42 -!- pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has left #lisp 13:56:11 pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has joined #lisp 13:57:02 -!- pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has left #lisp 13:57:05 pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has joined #lisp 13:57:13 -!- pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has quit [Client Quit] 13:57:23 pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has joined #lisp 13:58:09 stassats: couldn't let be load-time-value'd when compiling? 13:58:34 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:58:39 so that definitions within would become part of the compiler environment? 13:58:57 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 13:59:14 fare is too fare away... :/ I'd need him for help with xcvb hacking... 13:59:15 are we talking about how compiler treats code, or how one will write code? 14:00:31 stassats: both. i avoid closured top-level functions because they're not known until the file is loaded, but i wouldn't avoid them otherwise 14:01:12 global variables are unknwon until you load your file as well 14:01:18 nothing is known until you load it 14:01:31 timack [~tim@hlfx62-1-4.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 14:01:54 but they're declared special, which becomes part of the compiling environment, which avoids warnings when the compiler sees code accessing it 14:02:35 right, but so are lexical variables 14:02:55 ak70 [~ak70@a215.199.adsl.nextweb.net.mt] has joined #lisp 14:03:50 not in common lisp: (let () (defun foo ...)), `defun' will not be part of the compiling environment, even though the whole `let' form is compiled 14:03:50 the only problem is that DEFUN is no longer at the top-level 14:04:03 -!- Inaimathi [4c4207e9@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.66.7.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:04:17 pmd: well, you were talking previously about variables and now you're talking about functions 14:04:24 it's hard to keep up 14:04:40 stassats: right. i was asking if let could have its binding forms be load-time-values so that let would be treated like progn on compilation 14:06:08 let bindings at the top-level are established at load-time 14:06:22 so they don't need to have load-time-value 14:06:30 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.235.211] has left #lisp 14:07:27 stassats: yeah, i was not thinking right... let cannot have its body eval'd at compile time 14:10:23 stassats: i was always talking about functions, perhaps there are too many 3-letter nicks starting with p :) 14:11:31 is this about "but they're declared special, which becomes part of the compiling environment, which avoids warnings when the compiler sees code accessing it" functions? 14:11:47 i didn't know there were special functions 14:12:32 that sounds interesting 14:12:36 stassats: i was comparing what happens with defvars to a compiling environment and defun at toplevel 14:12:51 cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.0.240] has joined #lisp 14:12:59 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 14:13:01 so, you were talking about variables after all 14:13:05 there are no special functions, but defun at toplevel potentially informs the compiler that the function exists 14:14:57 stassats: :) yes, i was keeping up: global variables are unknwon until you load your file as well 14:16:35 and then i continued about variables, and you transitioned to functions 14:16:51 that's where i got confused 14:17:18 syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-217-213.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 14:17:57 -!- humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:18:02 *pmd* needs caffeine 14:19:35 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-217-213.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:19:50 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 14:25:14 loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 14:26:52 Hraban [~user@78-22-147-55.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 14:26:58 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 14:31:11 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.235.211] has joined #lisp 14:33:17 -!- timack [~tim@hlfx62-1-4.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:34:04 Modius [~Modius@cpe-24-28-30-165.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:35:41 timack [~tim@hlfx50-2-142177005076.ppp-dynamic.dial.ns.bellaliant.net] has joined #lisp 14:37:00 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-16-156.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:37:57 dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 14:37:57 -!- Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:38:36 Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:40:08 -!- drdo [~drdo@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:40:15 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 14:41:30 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 14:41:33 zomgbie_ [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 14:42:30 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.235.211] has left #lisp 14:43:23 -!- Buganini [~buganini@security-hole.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:47:50 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 14:50:05 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:52:55 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-84-44-142-131.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:53:08 -!- wbooze` [~user@xdsl-84-44-142-131.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:56:56 -!- benny [~benny@i577A2563.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:58:09 -!- Jabberwock is now known as Jabberwockey 14:58:44 -!- zomgbie_ [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:58:44 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:08:17 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 15:09:14 -!- cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:16:56 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-170-47.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:18:01 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-170-47.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 15:21:52 pmd` [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has joined #lisp 15:22:36 c|mell [~cmell@88-96-216-86.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:22:38 -!- pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:22:45 -!- pmd` is now known as pmd 15:24:31 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 15:24:32 zomgbie_ [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 15:25:49 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 15:26:56 meandi [~meandi@dyndsl-178-142-061-243.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #lisp 15:26:58 Buganini [~buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 15:27:56 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 15:29:06 wow. another new common lisp. what a waste of time and energy. just what we need. 15:29:21 where? 15:29:32 ? 15:29:40 planet lisp announces MKCL 15:29:47 a derivative of ECL 15:29:53 -!- xan_ [~xan@p1089-ipbf15tokaisakaetozai.aichi.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:29:59 ehu: any real changes? 15:31:13 ... seems none 15:31:26 I wonder what made them do a fork 15:31:39 i should fork SBCL, SB are my initials 15:31:42 I can see some cases where a full fork might be necessary, but this doesn't seem like it 15:31:46 hahaha 15:32:14 ehu: good side so far is that we can grab their changes back fast, for now 15:32:31 *p_l|home* ponders the speed profile of Boehm GC 15:32:39 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:33:17 i'd like to know how you can fork a project that hasn't reached a stable state and expect to offer increased reliability. 15:33:28 ecl changes pretty quickly... 15:33:31 dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 15:33:57 considering the weight marketing tends to have in modern software development, a fork for naming reasons doesn't seem so far fetched 15:34:00 isn't it still growing ANSI features? 15:35:21 Fade: afaik it was pretty complete 15:35:32 it might have some warts on MOP 15:35:44 but it has closer-mop 15:36:01 minion: what does MKCL mean? 15:36:01 Mealtime Krypticism Common Lisp 15:36:03 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b3c:d921:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 15:36:10 ahh. I wasn't sure if mop had been completed. 15:36:14 i like that 15:36:19 TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-76-175-244-227.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:36:48 *p_l|home* personally has bad association towards the "ManKai" name 15:37:19 I can see XCL's possible usability. I see none for MKCL 15:38:20 there were soviet calculators called MK 15:38:38 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b3c:d921:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:38:46 programmable calculators 15:39:00 benny [~benny@i577A2553.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:39:01 -!- pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has quit [] 15:39:19 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.0.240] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:39:25 powerje [~powerje@adsl-75-60-217-33.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:39:30 p_l|home: have you used XCL? 15:39:37 -!- TomJ [~tomj@89.241.155.238] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:40:23 Fade: not yet, I got scared by its license 15:41:46 the thing is, I can see more use in it because it isn't just forking an existing implementation over apparently stupid reasons, but a complete fresh try. Sure, it requires more work, but allows one to try different approaches in order to get an implementation with different characteristics 15:42:47 my main beef with ECL is that the 10.4.1 I have doesn't compile Lisp source correctly -_-; 15:43:14 oh? how so? 15:43:20 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:43:46 -!- lnostdal [~Lars@167.80-203-136.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: .. reboot ..] 15:43:56 Fade: I either get compilation-time errors or load-time errors 15:44:07 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 15:44:14 maybe your source is bad 15:44:17 scratch that, compile time and link time only 15:45:45 lnostdal [~Lars@167.80-203-136.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 15:46:32 minion: paste 115858 15:46:32 Paste number 115858: "ECL compile and link time errors, v.10.4.1" by p_l in #lisp. http://paste.lisp.org/display/115858 15:46:42 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181130165.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 15:47:20 it would be interesting to make ECL work with clang and use it's detailed error messages 15:47:41 aifnord [~aifnord@79-133-4-112.bredband.aland.net] has joined #lisp 15:48:07 already the Qt interop makes me salivating sometimes 15:49:06 p_ljhome: Could it be that you have stale header files in /usr/include/ecl/* ? 15:49:48 _cosmonaut_ [~user@74-186-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 15:50:38 angavrilov: it is possible, I am currently checking that out 15:50:50 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:50:52 jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-208.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:52:00 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@187.87.233.166] has joined #lisp 15:52:46 TomJ [~tomj@89.241.155.238] has joined #lisp 15:53:37 hah, found it 15:54:16 I had an extra copy stashed in /usr/local/include/ecl 15:55:00 btw, should I use ECL-provided CLX? 15:55:48 No idea, never wrote anything GUI (yet)... 15:55:51 grumps [~user@c-71-194-138-249.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:56:33 gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:56:52 well, I built it without 15:57:09 Qt4 for ECL should work on it still, I think... 15:57:27 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:59:03 (ECL, despite all the problems I encounter from time to time and lack of built-in compiler, remains one of my favourite implementations. Just for working without *any* issue the first time I compiled it from scratch on win64, with threading, unicode, networking, and whatever else you wanted. And with official toolchain, even) 16:00:17 i haven't used ecl very much, because now sbcl runs on all the systems I need it to. 16:01:21 sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:01:30 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 16:02:32 Well, ecl's compiler is pretty effectively built-in as far as the user is concerned. 16:03:04 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Client Quit] 16:03:49 Zhivago: what I meant is that I can't that easily deliver an executable that will be able to compile to native code forms that were provided in end-user environment. Fortunately there's bytecode, so except for the performance intensive stuff, it shouldn't matter 16:05:37 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.235.211] has joined #lisp 16:05:40 Bronsa [~bronsa@host156-185-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:05:42 what is the name of ecl's startup file? 16:06:07 now it works perfectly, yay! 16:06:25 (also, interesting thing... ECL loads certain components on-demand. Nice) 16:07:06 i remember having an option to show class hierarchy visually in climacs, probably via the inspector extension, does slime have a similar functionality? 16:07:34 .eclrc 16:07:42 kenanb: I vaguely recall mentions of something like that, though not necessarily available by default 16:10:04 kenanb: it's a Listener command, Show Class Subclasses and Show Class Superclasses. 16:10:16 homie [~user@xdsl-84-44-142-131.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:10:44 wbooze [~user@xdsl-84-44-142-131.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:11:09 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-048-185.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:11:30 I am trying to learn CLOS but lack of oop background gives me a hard time understanding realworld usage of clos objects, so i thought inspecting existing usage of CLOS objects from the libraries might help 16:11:59 Athas: ok, i guess that will do 16:12:09 still, I can't get quicklisp to run with ECL 16:12:09 thanks Athas, p_l|home 16:13:11 There were a few bugs fixed in the trunk recently to get quicklisp working 16:13:12 kenanb: CLOS is rather different from other object systems, so it would be a good idea to think in terms of "protocols" rather than class hierarchies (IMHO) 16:13:13 timor [~timor@port-92-195-82-200.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 16:13:15 kenanb: you may want to start with the CLIM spec 16:13:18 @kenanb: the keane book would be a good one to pick up 16:14:36 @kenanb: sorry, it's "keene" (object oriented programming in common lisp) 16:15:04 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.76.178] has joined #lisp 16:17:36 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-34-84.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:18:21 *p_l|home* ponders writing a defprotocol macro to that would facilitate MOP to check for protocol consistency 16:18:38 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-16-156.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:19:46 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 16:20:44 ecl loads quicklisp on my ppc machine. 16:21:11 but quickloading stuff seems to give the machine an anxiety attack. 16:21:52 btw, a friend of mine just got a G3 iBook... kinda wondering on making him give access to crazy developers 16:21:57 felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has joined #lisp 16:22:09 -!- Hraban [~user@78-22-147-55.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:22:31 I run linux on my G4 pb. 16:22:41 a G3 would be... slow. 16:22:47 Fade: it is 16:22:58 he has fun with OpenFirmware, though 16:23:16 could be interesting to port SBCL-OS to run straight from OF 16:23:19 the firmware on the mac is only notionally 'openfirmware' 16:23:30 compared to the other openfirmware systems, it's very limited. 16:23:43 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:24:03 but it would make for an interesting target for OS development in lisp. 16:24:04 :) 16:24:38 Fade: AFAIK it depended on the version of the board in question. Some of the macs were supposedly fully CHREP (or PREP?) compatible 16:24:58 current Mac stuff is all EFI 16:25:06 and probably UEFI soon 16:25:11 Adamant: true, but we're talking about PPC :) 16:25:19 fair enough 16:25:31 they aren't making any more though, so kinda seems like a dead end 16:25:32 *p_l|home* is personally hung over SRM 16:25:44 what do you mean? 16:25:47 I like SRM. 16:25:50 IIRC, EFI is prorgrammable 16:26:04 UEFI even more so 16:26:46 the bootware as forth stack-machine aspect of OB is pretty neat. 16:27:33 Adamant: EFI 1.0 was very programmable, EFI2.0/UEFI is behind a wall 16:27:44 ah 16:27:47 that are the suck 16:28:10 I once downloaded a portable EFI developement kit from Intel 16:28:15 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:29:33 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@218.82.22.43] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:30:24 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:30:33 hrmn. ecl doesn't load UCW. 16:31:50 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:32:03 homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-87-77.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:32:24 wbooze` [~user@xdsl-87-79-87-77.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:34:04 -!- grumps [~user@c-71-194-138-249.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:34:13 weblocks either 16:34:48 -!- wbooze` [~user@xdsl-87-79-87-77.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 16:34:49 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.235.211] has left #lisp 16:34:50 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-84-44-142-131.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:34:52 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-87-77.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 16:35:23 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-84-44-142-131.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:35:50 -!- bulibuta [~bulibuta@unaffiliated/bulibuta] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:35:55 -!- Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:36:59 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:37:25 MOP not cooked? 16:37:30 how to use slime to kill runaway infinite loops? 16:37:31 bulibuta [~bulibuta@unaffiliated/bulibuta] has joined #lisp 16:37:41 *Fade* quits fooling around and goes back to work 16:38:03 zvrba: C-c C-c 16:38:53 doesn't work 16:39:34 sometimes it can take awhile for the signal to get through. 16:39:38 sometimes, it doesn't work. 16:39:59 bah 16:41:32 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@2001:6f8:1215:ba:1::77] has joined #lisp 16:42:17 -!- mulander [mulander@078088239019.lubin.vectranet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:43:50 ericklc [~ikki@189.247.194.58] has joined #lisp 16:44:17 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-048-185.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:44:35 -!- ericklc is now known as ikki 16:46:26 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 16:50:00 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 16:50:27 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.235.211] has joined #lisp 16:51:07 huangho [~vitor@201-66-150-194.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #lisp 16:51:55 *p_l|home* ponders if EQL will compile for him 16:52:01 kclifton [~kclifton@s198-166-45-245.ab.hsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 16:52:20 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-87-77.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:52:31 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-87-77.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:53:06 rtra [~rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #lisp 16:59:22 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host156-185-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:59:40 Bronsa [~bronsa@host156-185-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:00:53 wvdschel [~wim@unaffiliated/yukito] has joined #lisp 17:02:40 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:04:58 mulander [mulander@078088239019.lubin.vectranet.pl] has joined #lisp 17:04:59 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 17:06:30 -!- TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-76-175-244-227.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:09:13 ace4016 [~ace4016@adsl-32-11-182.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:57 hm, (let ((x '((a 0) (b 1)))) .. ) inside a function creates singleton sublists 17:10:09 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 17:10:20 (incf (second (assoc 'a x))) remembers changes between function calls :/ 17:10:33 zvrba: right, you shouldn't modify literal data. 17:10:45 literal data shouldn't be modifiable at all 17:11:00 it should be an error, as if i said (setf 1 2) 17:11:03 zvrba: that's not what the standard says. 17:11:16 zvrba: welcome to the club of the people that ended using function headers for storage :D 17:11:24 i know. i just think that such behaviour sucks :P 17:11:29 1 is a constant; the list above is a literal list. 17:11:52 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:11:54 p_l|home: :) 17:12:15 i've found a way to make a new list each time with mapcar, but that doesn't seem very elegant 17:12:28 let ((counts (mapcar (lambda (k) (list k 0)) '(a t g c)))) 17:12:28 clhs copy-list 17:12:28 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_cp_lis.htm 17:12:32 clhs copy-tree 17:12:32 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_cp_tre.htm 17:12:35 \o/ 17:12:39 clhs copy-seq 17:12:39 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_cp_seq.htm 17:13:17 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 17:13:44 uh, it didn't work using copy-list 17:13:56 (let ((counts (copy-list '((a 0) (t 0) (g 0) (c 0))))) 17:14:07 the values are remembered between invocations 17:14:22 Only the list structure of list is copied; the elements of the resulting list are the same as the corresponding elements of the given list. 17:14:25 ah 17:14:25 meandi2 [~meandi@dyndsl-178-142-055-169.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #lisp 17:14:41 cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 17:14:46 -!- meandi [~meandi@dyndsl-178-142-061-243.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:14:56 yes, copy-tree is what i needed 17:16:09 -!- huangho [~vitor@201-66-150-194.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:20:32 Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 17:21:26 -!- rtra [~rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit [Quit: off] 17:23:51 -!- seejay` is now known as seejay 17:23:55 -!- seejay [~seejay@plexyplanet.org] has quit [Changing host] 17:23:55 seejay [~seejay@unaffiliated/seejay] has joined #lisp 17:24:07 -!- symbole_ [~user@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:26:23 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:27:44 -!- loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:33:23 molbdnilo [~Ove@c80-216-195-64.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 17:33:31 -!- molbdnilo [~Ove@c80-216-195-64.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Client Quit] 17:34:07 -!- davazp [~user@201.Red-88-6-206.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:36:46 -!- dborba [~dborba@pool-74-105-202-55.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:38:27 grumps [~user@c-71-194-138-249.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:01 brill [~brill@0x5da22faa.cpe.ge-1-1-0-1104.hrnqu2.customer.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 17:39:06 -!- aifnord [~aifnord@79-133-4-112.bredband.aland.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:45:43 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.53.77] has joined #lisp 17:47:07 necroforest [~jarred@pool-108-18-226-169.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:47:45 I am having problems understanding class precedence used for conflicts caused by class inheritence, does that mean if there are two primary methods of the same generic function, one defined for the superclass and one for its subclass, only the preceding one -which i guess being the primary method defined for the subclass- will be evaluated, or will both of them be evaluated and what meant by precedence is something else? 17:48:07 -!- c|mell [~cmell@88-96-216-86.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:48:36 kenanb: only the most specific primary method will be invoked, unless you (call-next-method) 17:48:40 abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:49:02 then there's method combination. 17:50:21 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:51:30 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 17:51:57 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.53.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:54:33 but then, that's for normal methods. :before and :after methods will be invoked automatically in the required precendence order. 17:54:48 right. Method combination. 17:57:47 nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-178-106.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 17:58:58 sykopomp: so normally if i want both some general process for the superclass and some specific ones for the a class to be invoked, the simple way to do this is using subclass methods as auxiliary, or adding call-next-method to primary method to the primary method of the superclass, right? and i guess using auxiliary methods is not exaclty used for what i want 17:59:28 kenanb: In CLOS, I would very often use method combination for something like that. 18:00:05 since (call-next-method) requires reminding users that they need to call the next method manually -- method combination provides a way to enforce invocation of certain methods. 18:00:32 sykopomp: i see, thanks. 18:00:50 and (call-next-method) calls the _next_ method (from subclass to superclass), not vice-versa. 18:01:08 (I may have misread what you said) 18:01:24 kenanb: whether you use :before/:after/:around also depends on the nature of the method you're trying to write. 18:01:41 generally speaking, :before/:after are used for side-effects, and :around for 'wrapping' 18:01:42 oh, sorry, yes since there is precedence of the subclass method 18:01:49 -!- wvdschel [~wim@unaffiliated/yukito] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:02:02 sykopomp: i think you prefer sheeple for oop nowadays, right? 18:02:17 kenanb: I use CLOS for most things, still. 18:02:31 I recently rewrote one of my Sheeple-based libs to CLOS, too. 18:03:12 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:03:25 for which kind of jobs you prefer sheeple? 18:03:50 Probably games. 18:04:06 but even then, I'm not very excited about its applications there. 18:04:50 The issue turned out to be that I didn't see much tangible difference between programs written using Sheeple and programs written using CLOS -- whereas the first required an extra dependency, and a performance overhead from method invocation. 18:06:02 there's a few things here and there that turn out to be nice, though: having these 'singleton' objects that you can just use, or copy, instead of having to instantiate a class, for example. 18:06:14 -!- iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@61.43.139.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:06:34 i see 18:07:00 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@host86-140-191-137.range86-140.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:07:38 sykopomp: mop:class-prototype? 18:07:40 (defmacro define-singleton-object (name slots) `(progn (defclass ...) (defconstant ...) (defmethod make-load-form ...) ...)) 18:08:26 stassats: I don't know what that is. 18:08:36 it returns a class prototype 18:08:47 sykopomp: btw, were you among the authors of glop? 18:08:52 so you don't have to instantiate it 18:09:02 kenanb: Not really, but I think I contributed a bit to it. 18:09:10 stassats: cool. 18:09:12 (Yes, that does make a "singleton" object, with a class, a single instance, instantiates the whole thing as a constant, and makes it so that you can dump literal references to it from compiled code.) 18:09:58 nyef: that's not quite the same, generally speaking. 18:10:18 I guess not, modulo the whole "single global instance" thing. 18:10:34 The semantics of prototype-based object systems are interesting. You can achieve a lot (most?) of their features with CLOS, because it's such a dynamic system, though. 18:10:47 Lycurgus [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:11:10 sykopomp: and cl-openal? 18:11:35 kenanb: I started that one, yes. Most of the code has been written by others at this point, I think. 18:11:39 although I still nanny the releases. 18:12:09 i got some fd-stream stream decoding errors while compiling it, but i guess it is not an important issue 18:12:29 ...strange? 18:12:40 ... non-ascii characters in the source files, with nothing specifying a particular encoding? 18:14:24 atomx [~user@92.80.100.28] has joined #lisp 18:15:22 -!- MoALTz [~no@92.8.222.254] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:16:16 i was trying to load glaw, and i didn't have freealut so i couln't test it further, and i deleted when i couldn't be able to run glaw. but i have a strange distro and absence of advanced audio and video drivers so i wouldn't worry about the errors i get while compiling :D 18:18:27 i even have strange memory problems running cl-glut since the system works on xvesa and mesa running software drivers :) 18:19:45 glaw requires freealut? 18:19:48 -!- grumps [~user@c-71-194-138-249.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:19:49 hmm this is wrong 18:21:14 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:21:23 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-141-233.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 18:21:58 Patzy: no, i mean i couln't be able to test further if the stream decoding errors i got compiling cl-openal will cause any problems since i don't have freealut 18:22:06 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 18:22:36 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:22:50 and since i couldn't also be able to run glaw too, i couldn't test if cl-openal works from glaw, too 18:22:59 kenanb: glaw doesn't need alut 18:23:48 so it should work without freealut 18:23:58 -!- brill [~brill@0x5da22faa.cpe.ge-1-1-0-1104.hrnqu2.customer.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:25:51 yes, but when i tried glaw examples, i got different errors which probably aren't related to cl-openal errors i got while compiling, so i couldn't find a way of testing if cl-openal works regardless of the stream decoding errors 18:27:48 to summarize, i couldn't test cl-openal from its own examples since i don't have some alut libs, or from inside glaw examples since i couldn't be able to run glaw, too 18:30:15 kenanb: I see :) 18:31:14 loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 18:32:17 grumps [~user@c-71-194-138-249.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:32:20 -!- grumps [~user@c-71-194-138-249.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:32:45 Patzy: btw, if you think it would be good to see the errors i got while running glaw examples for feedback purposes, i can download and test it again 18:34:17 kenanb: well it could be nice, if you have some time for this :) 18:35:00 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 18:35:21 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-60-2.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:36:52 of course, i like very much playing with libraries like glaw, glop, until-it-dies you guys are working on nowadays, i'm willing to do as much as i can :) 18:42:39 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-60-2.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:44:32 minion: undefined? 18:44:32 undefined: "Just because the standard provides a cliff in front of you, you are not necessarily required to jump off it." 18:44:40 :) 18:45:10 c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:45:33 minion: advice on death? 18:45:34 #11940: You said `It doesn't work'. The next violation will be punished by death. 18:45:50 cliff, sounds like a name of some cl project 18:45:52 Ah, good. That's about what I thought. 18:47:21 iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@119.192.12.119] has joined #lisp 18:49:23 cliff... sounds like a good name for an IDE 18:50:53 hmmm.... interesting quote: 18:50:56 This is one of the reasons Lisp doesn't get anywhere. The trend to promote features so clever that you stop thinking about your problem and start thinking about the clever features. CL's loop is so powerful that people invented functional programming so that they'd never have to use it. 18:51:08 -!- iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@119.192.12.119] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:51:23 hahaha that's great. 18:52:39 they've never seen C++ 18:53:09 where minute differences in syntax mean some another clever feature 18:53:18 gump [~gauthamg@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 18:53:25 I suspect it was someone who avoids C++ 18:53:37 as it was apparently taken from reddit 18:53:41 stassats: Ah, but that doesn't actually take people's minds off of their problem, which is that C++ is an absolute disaster. 18:54:03 The most amazing achievement of the computer software industry is its continuing cancellation of the steady and staggering gains made by the computer hardware industry. <---- damned true 18:54:15 Heh. 18:54:42 *p_l|home* recalls working quite nicely on a 486@66MHz with 16MB of RAM 18:54:44 p_l|home: not really. we use the gains to make better programs and make it easier to program 18:54:56 also, massivel multitasking. 18:55:02 using resources you have available is reasonable 18:55:18 especially when there's no point in conserving them 18:55:32 especially when conserving them means additional work 18:55:39 indeed 18:55:40 *nyef* recalls being quite happy with an 8088... 18:55:41 -!- cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:55:51 although optimization does need to be taught more 18:55:57 *stassats* recalls being happy with a computer 18:56:01 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:56:04 because you do have to do it at some points. 18:56:06 Adamant: the thing is, I'd like to do *more*, instead of do the same 18:56:15 in what sense? 18:56:43 *stassats* is optimizing right now a problem for project euler 18:57:19 Adamant: If I add more memory, it's not because I want to run the same set of features with tomorrow's software, it's because I want to have something do extra work in background etc. 18:57:56 I'm not saying we shouldn't use the resources available - I'm just saying that the programmers seem to disregard the possibility that their program isn't the only one running 18:58:21 *p_l|home* is still astonished at how Chrome can fuckup performance of the whole system in certain conditions 18:58:30 p_l|home: decent point, but I'm currently running 16 programs in the background 18:58:39 of varying sizes and complexities 18:58:49 Tasks: 82 total, 1 running, 81 sleeping 18:58:51 and I'm on a laptop 18:59:12 tasks: 162 18:59:52 out of these, there's probably <10 "toplevel" kind of things, the rest being mostly stuff that gets called to handle an interrupt 18:59:56 actually only 11 19:00:38 yeah I'm not counting it per-process or thread, or regular OS-required processes 19:00:44 but UI/UX wise 19:00:54 you have to chose, either more features, or more performance 19:01:00 at the same cost 19:01:11 that 486 would shit if I tried to play MP3 at the same time, for instance 19:01:45 can it play mp3 _at all_? 19:01:50 I know, it would make my P3 chug if I tried to multitask while doing that, although it was still perfectly usable 19:01:53 probably 19:02:01 at the cost of 50-90% of all resources 19:02:16 oh, I know. It's just that sometimes I have a feeling that certain software seems to expand till it covers everything 19:02:25 eh, I feel ya. 19:02:38 well, there are always bad and good things 19:02:50 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.53.77] has joined #lisp 19:02:56 web browsers are the worst, because like a DBMS, they are basically an extra OS on top 19:03:00 of your current OS 19:03:35 yo dawg 19:03:51 I'd like for example to see a web browser to be truly written with performance as a goal. 19:04:08 I think Chrome is as close as you will get in the present 19:04:27 unless you want to start a project 19:04:30 Adamant: my personal experience with Chrome is "Don't launch unless really needed, for it will suck the life out of your machine" 19:04:30 "truly" as opposed to what, features? good luck selling that 19:04:47 weren't these microsoft's arguments for IE/windows integration back in the day? 19:04:48 p_l|home: i guess it's not optimized for i486 19:05:03 stassats: C2D here in 64bit mode 19:05:19 it's actually not churning CPU, but seems to use *other* kinds of resources 19:05:23 p_l|home: I use Firefox, it's worse 19:05:28 i enjoyed chrome on a p4 19:05:31 although Firefox 4 is notably better 19:05:50 p_l|home: grabbing too much memory? 19:05:54 Adamant: well... my firefox can get bloated (1GB resident set), but it's not that rare for me to have >100 tabs open 19:06:51 "it hurts when i poke a finger into my eye" 19:07:07 Adamant: not sure. I can have FF4, Eclipse, Emacs, SBCL and mplayer decoding HQ video running at the same time without many issues. If I launch Chrome, Firefox and Eclipse together, CRAPABOOM, despite supposedly lower load 19:07:08 sanya [~sanya@74-186-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 19:07:17 well yeah 19:07:26 don't run 2 web browsers at once 19:07:37 Adamant: Need to, sorta 19:07:37 run 3 instead! 19:07:47 and yeah, sometimes I run three 19:08:04 each in its own VM, maybe that way they won't impact each other so much! 19:08:07 cause RBS is shit and I need to use Opera to access its digital banking 19:08:38 lessee if newer Chrome will cause less issues 19:08:40 that's the first time I've heard of banking actually working better with Opera 19:08:52 (also, fonts were borked with Chrome 6.x) 19:09:01 or anything working better with Opera, for that matter 19:09:07 even IE5 supported fonts better 19:09:08 minion: closure? 19:09:09 closure: Closure is a free web browser written completely in Common Lisp. http://www.cliki.net/closure 19:09:15 problem solved 19:09:22 -!- sanya [~sanya@74-186-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:09:35 cmm: WizzAir web checkin worked only with Opera for me 19:10:16 hmmm... Chrome weighs these day similarly to what updated Closure would weigh, I think 19:10:40 eric [~eric@ip68-225-113-244.mc.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:11:06 -!- eric is now known as Guest83998 19:11:17 -!- Guest83998 is now known as oconnore 19:11:43 Patzy: firstly, i got some errors related to lisp looking for the data files used in some examples in the wrong place 19:12:35 closure-html needs an update though 19:12:53 what update? 19:13:17 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.62.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:13:39 gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:13:45 stassats: HTML5 19:13:59 it confuses it 19:14:07 screw html5 19:14:11 Patzy: the glaw directory is in /home/tc/.system/glaw, so it should look for glaw data files like fonts and png files in /home/tc/.system/glaw/data, but it looks for them in /home/tc/data dir 19:14:22 stassats: the thing is, more and more people are going to use it 19:14:44 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.48.110] has joined #lisp 19:15:05 wol [~wol@67.174.222.215] has joined #lisp 19:16:49 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@187.87.233.166] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:17:10 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@187.87.233.166] has joined #lisp 19:17:30 Patzy: but this is not the real problem, i solve it by copying the data dir there, the real error i got while trying to run any glaw example is "the value NIL is not a type GLAW::RESOURCE-HOLDER" 19:18:23 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:18:42 wvdschel [~wim@d54C18EBE.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 19:18:43 -!- wvdschel [~wim@d54C18EBE.access.telenet.be] has quit [Changing host] 19:18:43 wvdschel [~wim@unaffiliated/yukito] has joined #lisp 19:19:15 (closure-html already gives weird results on my 404 template) 19:20:50 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 19:20:54 -!- _cosmonaut_ [~user@74-186-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:21:34 Patzy: ok, that is strange :D this time examples started working when i copied the data dir :) 19:26:41 -!- sigjuice [~sigjuice@c-24-130-52-60.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:30:16 sanya [~sanya@74-186-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 19:31:16 kenanb: hmm strange, I'll have a look at this 19:31:44 I'm playing with fork/wait/exec* and CFFI to execute an external program from CL 19:31:59 it's fun, but am I reinventing an existing wheel, by any chance? 19:32:05 using run-program isn't an option? 19:32:07 Patzy: all the examples work now :) 19:32:33 kenanb: cool, it should work out of the box though :) 19:33:16 stassats: thanks 19:33:29 I see, maybe I should use some asfd system-relative path for data :) 19:33:32 although I'm glad I finally got to use CFFI 19:33:43 i don't know what portability layer people are using for run-program 19:33:46 Patzy: is there any way to get rid of this stream decoding errors i get while loading cl-alc btw? 19:33:59 isn't there a POSIX-portable run-program? 19:34:20 in sbcl, there is 19:34:57 -!- kclifton [~kclifton@s198-166-45-245.ab.hsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: kclifton] 19:35:22 kenanb: not sure how, I don't have the stream decoding errors here 19:37:02 Patzy: Try starting SBCL with LANG=C or similar in the environment? 19:37:26 Or... Hang on. 19:37:31 *p_l|home* has some ideas on improving GC in ECL, fufufufufufufufufufufufufu 19:37:50 -!- Fullma [~fullma@ram94-2-82-66-69-246.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:38:09 Patzy: Try (setf sb-impl::*default-external-format* :ascii), and then building. 19:38:11 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 19:38:18 p_l|home: yay 19:38:32 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:38:35 -!- wvdschel [~wim@unaffiliated/yukito] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:38:55 phadthai: don't keep your hopes high, though :D 19:39:01 -!- zomgbie_ [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:39:08 stassats: do you mean that the implementation of SBCL's run-program should work fine in other implementations?? 19:39:30 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host156-185-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:39:30 phadthai: but I hope that (room) will be able to provide *some* information after that 19:39:32 nowhere_man: no, i mean that it's portable across POSIX systems 19:39:48 oh, with SBCL, on any POSIX, I see 19:40:00 nyef: yeah that gives me a decoding error, not sure but I guess this comes from sykopomp's real name in the .asd :) 19:40:01 man, portability is such a vague concept 19:40:21 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.48.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:40:22 making your own run-program is a non-trivial task 19:40:35 nowhere_man: POSIX means "Portable Operating System Interface" iirc 19:41:01 minion: what does POSIX stand for? 19:41:01 Proconformity Oxhead Sapiently Interstream Xyster 19:41:08 Bronsa [~bronsa@host156-185-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:41:57 p_l|home: this reminds me... any idea if the results posted by TIME are accurate enough? 19:42:15 pork on steroids in xtudio 19:42:16 other than the timing, I mean the GC info 19:42:18 lol 19:42:20 phadthai: depends on your reference frame 19:43:05 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host156-185-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has left #lisp 19:43:05 phadthai: none, since I just got ECL to work again for me (stale headers hidden in /usr/local/) 19:43:26 -!- sanya [~sanya@74-186-133-95.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Quit: ] 19:45:27 Patzy: yes, the errors disappeared when i deleted the lines with names in cl-alc.asd and cl-openal.asd, but i am not sure sykopomp will like this solution :p 19:48:05 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:49:15 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 19:50:41 humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:01 *p_l|home* ponders if it will be possible to adapt VCGC to ECL and whether it will work well 19:53:06 -!- nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:55:26 p_l|home: http://doc.cat-v.org/inferno/concurrent_gc/ ? 19:56:22 phadthai: yes 19:56:32 I've never read about it before here 19:57:01 and even then, I was considering experimenting with explicitly different allocation regions for different kinds of data 19:57:03 if it can work with arbitrary enough C it might be possible 19:57:14 Bronsa [~bronsa@host156-185-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:59:40 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host156-185-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has left #lisp 19:59:52 me345 [~me345@adsl-75-15-185-21.dsl.bkfd14.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:10 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:17 -!- debiandebian [~chatzilla@219.116.51.10] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2/20100222071121]] 20:05:24 Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 20:06:16 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:07:36 it would be interesting if some of the objects could be moved 20:09:25 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:11:29 -!- oconnore [~eric@ip68-225-113-244.mc.at.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:12:21 also, I have no idea about current use, but is mmap()ed code considered different from "alive" and "dead"? 20:12:25 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-208.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:12:30 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:13:20 Patzy: i was checking the examples.lisp and when i try (glaw:init-content-manager (asdf:system-relative-pathname :glaw "data/")) and run (glaw:load-asset "button.png" :texture) manually, it loads the file successfully, but when running (glaw-examples:run-example 'glaw:foo-example) it somehow looks for the file in the wrong path again 20:17:48 georgek [~george@c-24-17-224-196.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:18:01 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:08 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 20:19:15 oconnore [~eric@ip68-225-113-244.mc.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:02 hi, I've installed sbcl on Windows XP for the first time, and it only runs as root; as a regular user I get 'can't find core file at /usr/local/lib/sbcl//sbcl.core' -- is there a way around that? 20:20:38 ... You have a root user and /usr/local/lib on Windows XP? 20:21:04 Oh! Did you use the MSI or something? 20:21:10 yes 20:21:33 SBCL_HOME is probably not set correctly for the user accounts. 20:21:58 georgek: did you restart your machine? 20:22:14 -!- ramus [~ramus@99.23.140.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:22:19 (There are a couple of bugs in the tracker about the installer, and one of them has to do with setting something up for all the accounts on the system instead of just one.) 20:22:19 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:22:23 yes, I restarted 20:22:45 you should restart windows for SBCL_HOME to be enabled 20:22:49 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 20:22:50 SBCL_HOME is set to the directory C:\Program Files\Steel Bank Common Lisp\1.0.37\ 20:22:50 hmm, strange 20:22:53 ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-23-150-74.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:18 How odd... 20:23:40 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 20:24:18 ... maybe SBCL should do something different for finding the core on windows systems? 20:24:28 Or something different for defaulting SBCL_HOME, at least? 20:24:39 hmm, should I add SBCL_HOME as a variable for the user too? 20:25:02 Yes. 20:25:06 yes 20:25:19 then, you should restart again 20:25:27 thanks, will try that 20:25:42 so adding sbcl to the PATH doesn't cut it 20:25:56 Apparently not. 20:26:37 -!- georgek [~george@c-24-17-224-196.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:26:38 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-170-47.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:28:07 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.76.178] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:29:23 Trying to setup slime but I get "swank:close-connection: end of file", (on Ubuntu) 20:29:31 with sbcl 1.0.42 20:30:00 Any idea what I could look at to have a clue what is wrong? 20:30:01 is slime from cvs? 20:30:05 yes 20:30:15 from last week I beleive but let me update it 20:30:29 are you using unicode characters? 20:30:50 are you using emacs from terminal? 20:31:26 emacs from terminal yes 20:31:40 unicode, hmmm where? 20:31:42 try to reconnect 20:32:09 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:32:11 emacs in a terminal is known to cause problems 20:32:20 p_l|home: I'm familiar with mmap(2) but not with "dead" or "alive", so I don't understand the question, sorry 20:33:07 georgek [~george@c-24-17-224-196.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:21 stassats: Oh, I'll try in X 20:33:21 works now, thanks for the tips 20:33:32 hmm I always used emacs from a terminal 20:34:52 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 20:35:16 phadthai: "dead" meaning "data to be reclaimed by GC" 20:36:23 afk 20:37:28 p_l|home: I think that boehm would not know about mmap regions, unless there's a way to have those regions registered with it after the call 20:37:39 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@pD9E257C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:37:48 georgek: I'm having trouble reading the windows installer configuration, and I don't have a system to test with. Can you tell me where sbcl.exe is in relation to SBCL_HOME ? 20:37:55 also bbl though 20:38:41 (Looks like it might be in the same directory?) 20:38:43 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu269.queens.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:38:52 nyef: it's at SBCL_HOME/sbcl.exe 20:38:58 Okay, thanks. 20:39:35 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:22 Patzy: I cut out the init-content-manager and shutdown-content-manager parts from the run-examples function, then created another function to initialize content manager, this way, if i first run the init-content function then run-examples, it finds the data files as it should be. 20:43:55 -!- me345 [~me345@adsl-75-15-185-21.dsl.bkfd14.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:44:14 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-82-200.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:45:20 georgek: Bug filed at https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/666037 , and thank you. 20:47:55 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-170-47.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 20:48:29 ska` [~user@ppp-115-87-239-216.revip4.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 20:48:52 cool nyef, thanks for making my first day with CL a little easier 20:49:07 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-184-206-100.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:49:21 davazp [~user@201.Red-88-6-206.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:49:33 one day down, 3649 to go 20:49:51 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-184-206-100.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:50:19 :) 20:53:51 Frozenlock [~acme@modemcable034.66-21-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 20:54:10 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 20:55:41 stassats: that was a peter norvig reference, right? :) 20:55:52 yes 20:56:10 yes, great article 20:56:16 and i was lazy to calculate leap years 20:56:27 haha 20:56:50 Greetings! I'm experiencing a problem with lispbox and was wondering if any of you know what it might be. In the REPL, if I type 10 then press ENTER, it returns a 10. However, if I try anything with a parenthese, it returns nothing. It's as if it gets stuck :( 20:56:59 3651.5 days to go, on average? 20:57:42 (Yeah, I know, there's also an every-400-year-or-so correction thing too. but that kind of precision gets silly.) 20:57:56 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:58:03 Frozenlock: did you also type the closing paren? 20:58:11 Frozenlock: Did you enter the close... yeah, that. 20:58:11 yes 20:58:23 3653 days 20:58:31 CL-USER> 12 20:58:31 12 20:58:31 CL-USER> 12.4 20:58:31 12.4 20:58:31 CL-USER> 4/6 20:58:32 2/3 20:58:32 CL-USER> (* 654654 6546546) 20:58:36 stassats: ok, running in X help a bit, I get the "Connected. [...]" but no repl 20:58:57 upward: but are you using slime-fancy contrib? 20:59:13 stassats: Yes I think so, let me check 20:59:29 hmmm. no idea 21:00:11 wuj [~wuj@pool-74-108-204-117.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:00:22 And now if I want to do the simple number thing again (type 10, return 10), I have to restart my emacs :( 21:00:25 fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.102.97.201] has joined #lisp 21:00:50 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-119-151.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:01:04 Frozenlock: lispbox is very old 21:01:20 :s 21:01:30 any alternatives? 21:01:52 (working on windows) 21:02:00 Frozenlock: what do you get when you directly run implementation exe and try the same things? 21:02:01 modern emacs + modern slime + modern ccl ? 21:02:15 abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:25 Frozenlock: if you can install Emacs on your own, then you can get Quicklisp and use it to install SLIME pretty easily. 21:02:57 Ask if #quicklisp once you've got Emacs and a Lisp (such as Clozure CL) installed. 21:03:00 stassats: Wow, I'm glad I asked, I would never have guessed that I had to run emacs in X! 21:03:10 stassats: thanks a lot 21:03:12 upward: you don't 21:03:13 Frozenlock, I just got sbcl/emacs/slime up without too much trouble 21:03:30 stassats: You know why it's not working in terminal ? 21:03:34 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:03:44 perhaps 21:03:54 unicode something? 21:03:54 -!- starseek1r is now known as starseeker 21:04:19 -!- ace4016 [~ace4016@adsl-32-11-182.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:04:51 So I should forget Lispbox and reinstall emacs and slime? 21:06:14 you will eventually want to run with new versions of emacs and slime and cl implementation, but it is still strange for lispbox to behave that way 21:06:39 rvirding [~chatzilla@h137n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 21:07:13 i used lispbox in windows for some time, that kind of a problem didn't occur 21:07:51 from which adress did you download lispbox? 21:07:54 Unusual /default/ encoding based on the windows locale? 21:08:57 maybe I'm doing it wrong... start lispbox with lispbox.bat, hoping it doesn't stop at "connecting to swank on port XXXX" , then typing in the "slime-repl clozurecl" 21:09:10 sirmacik [~bolek@host-86-63-158-4.nplay.net.pl] has joined #lisp 21:09:11 upward: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.slime.devel/9250/focus=9280 21:09:35 hi 21:09:47 hello 21:09:47 btw I'm using lispbox-0.7-clisp-2.37 21:10:11 -!- ak70 [~ak70@a215.199.adsl.nextweb.net.mt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:11:25 Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:14:12 Thunderlock [~acme@modemcable034.66-21-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 21:15:51 Arg 21:16:19 I think I found the problem "There's a bug in the latest release of Clozure that causes it to hang some times on 64-bit windows, mostly during tab completion. This is since fixed but not yet included in the test builds here." -Lispbox project 21:17:08 -!- Frozenlock [~acme@modemcable034.66-21-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:17:48 -!- Thunderlock [~acme@modemcable034.66-21-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 21:18:09 Frozenlock [~acme@modemcable034.66-21-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 21:18:25 I think I found the problem "There's a bug in the latest release of Clozure that causes it to hang some times on 64-bit windows, mostly during tab completion. This is since fixed but not yet included in the test builds here." -Lispbox project 21:19:09 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.53.77] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:20:11 -!- moah [~gnu@188.109.207.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:20:18 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:20:19 Frozenlock: The normal fix for problems is to install linux. Getting help for windows is tricky stuff. 21:20:51 -!- loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:21:06 I'm trying to avoid that. I don't really have time to try Lisp AND mess around in linux 21:21:26 pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has joined #lisp 21:21:39 the more people will be solving problems on windows, the less problems there will be 21:21:50 stassats: great that will work until I get my hand on a patched version of emacs 21:21:54 stassats: many thanks 21:22:29 is there some portable way of getting the home directory in windows vista and 7? i.e. some implementations point to appdata\roaming, others to c:\users\ 21:22:50 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:23:14 pmd: there's a call to get it, I think 21:23:15 bah, i lost somewhere my find/position optimizations for bit-vectors 21:23:23 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:23:34 and i thought i sent them to sbcl-devel at some point, but can't find 21:23:42 Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:24:12 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 21:25:03 -!- georgek [~george@c-24-17-224-196.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:25:33 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-084-056-181-159.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 21:26:36 p_l|home: i've tried cl:user-homedir-pathname in a few implementations, some return c:\users\, others c:\users\\appdata\roaming, and the former "wins" by 1 (i think) 21:27:39 hmm, perhaps using (getenv "USERPROFILE")... not portable, but enough to return the same under windows... 21:27:44 looks like i'll have to do it again 21:28:07 -!- Frozenlock [~acme@modemcable034.66-21-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [] 21:29:07 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:29:21 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:30:33 the former is I think correct, while c:\users\\appdata\roaming is roaming profile, application data folder 21:31:14 pmd: the gist of this is that NT has the homedir much more structured instead of the dumping ground $HOME is in Unix 21:32:21 Does anyone know a lisp music player that uses curses or similar. I remember having seen it but can't find the name anymore 21:32:34 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 21:32:53 climplayer ? 21:33:00 p_l|home: true 21:33:02 i understand the "roaming" implementation (emacs suffers from this too): to ensure we're using a directory which will be copied back to the server when using a network fetched profile 21:33:36 however, there should be a consensus on this by now... well, another thing to live with 21:34:26 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:34:59 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 21:35:28 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 21:35:37 pmd: it should be more like "one shall not use / as a valid path on win32" 21:37:31 -!- konr [~user@201.82.132.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:38:03 -!- stis_ [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:38:59 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:39:27 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 21:40:38 p_l|home: i agree. the same way $HOME/./ is good enough for unix apps, %APPDATA%// is good enough for windows apps 21:40:47 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:40:52 Is it portably legal to shadow a common-lisp function name in a macrolet? 21:40:59 no. 21:40:59 E.g.g (macrolet ((map ...)) 21:41:00 (i know only vista and 7 set the APPDATA env var, but that's fetchable in other ways) 21:42:22 Modius: clhs 11.1.2.1.2 21:42:26 clhs 11.1.2.1.2 21:42:26 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/11_abab.htm 21:44:16 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:45:34 loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 21:46:52 thing is, most unix-to-win32 apps won't change their philosophy to support two different directories: home and appdata 21:48:23 homie: that's gui. the one I am looking for is running in text mode 21:50:20 sepi: do you mean maybe emms ? 21:50:21 Whoa SHIT. It's possible to bind a SETF function with FLET/LABELS?? I have no idea why I'd want to use that feature, but I'm excited! ;P 21:50:48 or one of it's players ? like emms-player-mpg123 or so ? 21:51:13 Hexstream: it's just a function name. 21:52:02 Well, yeah. But I thought it was a bit special-cased and stuff. I keep forgetting that possibility when thinking of function designators. 21:52:45 sepi: do you mean shuffletron? 21:52:54 sepi: shuffletron. 21:55:15 -!- powerje [~powerje@adsl-75-60-217-33.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: powerje] 21:56:59 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:57:49 Hexstream: if you read the x3j13 issues, you'll find refused generic-flet, generic-labels and (issue GENERIC-FLET-POORLY-DESIGNED) 21:57:56 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:58:23 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 22:01:40 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:02:19 -!- loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:03:30 tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 22:04:49 -!- spacebat_ is now known as spacebat 22:06:02 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-60-2.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo] 22:07:22 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:07:27 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:07:56 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 22:09:18 -!- pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has quit [] 22:11:56 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:12:33 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 22:13:14 Hexstream: It gets more fun than that: You can hit such functions with SYMBOL-MACROLET. 22:15:06 Quetzalcoatl_ [~godless@cpe-75-186-5-185.cinci.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:16:28 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.194.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:17:37 -!- pavelludiq_ [~quassel@83.222.190.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:18:33 hm..is any of the local-time maintainers around? 22:18:54 -!- manby-ace_ [~manby-ace@88-96-24-53.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: manby-ace_] 22:19:12 hm...Doesn't seem so, though I'm not sure what their handles are. 22:19:44 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:20:45 hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-11-46-165.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 22:22:04 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:22:16 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:30:55 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [] 22:32:13 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050064008.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:38:46 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 22:43:15 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:46:39 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:47:14 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 22:47:22 psilord2 [~psilord@76.204.94.189] has joined #lisp 22:50:37 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.235.211] has left #lisp 22:51:17 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:51:45 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-184-206-100.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:51:50 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 22:52:34 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b3c:d921:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 22:54:40 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:55:11 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b3c:d921:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:55:13 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 22:55:59 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b3c:d921:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 22:56:24 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b3c:d921:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:57:09 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b3c:d921:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 22:57:33 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b3c:d921:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:57:42 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-132-210.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:58:10 cYmen: I'm here (if you haven't read the TODO yet then do) 22:58:20 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b3c:d921:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 22:58:32 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 22:58:44 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b3c:d921:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:58:58 -!- davazp [~user@201.Red-88-6-206.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:59:30 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b3c:d921:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 22:59:55 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b3c:d921:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:59:59 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-100-217.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:00:39 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b3c:d921:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 23:00:50 lasts [~lasts@93.19.226.129] has joined #lisp 23:01:06 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b3c:d921:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:01:44 -!- lasts [~lasts@93.19.226.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:01:54 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b3c:d921:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 23:02:19 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b3c:d921:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:02:19 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:03:05 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b3c:d921:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 23:03:27 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b3c:d921:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:04:24 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755b4d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:05:18 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b3c:d921:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 23:05:49 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b3c:d921:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:09:36 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:11:24 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:13:22 daniel [~daniel@c95334ae.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 23:13:42 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:15:41 TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-76-175-244-227.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:18:16 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-23-82-248-120-55.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:18:34 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-43-82-249-150-253.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 23:19:13 is there more clever way to convert a year to a decade than (- year (rem year 10))? 23:20:57 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:20:57 -!- TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-76-175-244-227.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:22:58 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:09 what's wrong with it? 23:23:15 TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-76-175-244-227.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:23:24 nothing 23:23:45 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 23:23:45 but it doesn't look clever, since it's comprehensible 23:24:02 Take the FLOOR and multiply? 23:24:08 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Client Quit] 23:24:20 that's what i used at first 23:25:11 Print it out in base 10, read back in base 16, LOGANDC2 with 15, print it back out in base 16 and read it back in base 10? 23:26:46 http://www.flickr.com/photos/90204102@N00/5111920715/ nice shot of dlw from rpg 23:26:59 -!- daniel is now known as new-lisper 23:27:48 ... 23:28:13 -!- lonstein_ is now known as lonstein 23:28:16 stassats: write a tagbody-based FSM and do crazy math 23:28:44 that's... crazy 23:28:56 -!- TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-76-175-244-227.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:29:04 you wanted clever 23:29:08 sadf3 [~bryce@173.5.173.139] has joined #lisp 23:29:10 I gave you clever 23:29:17 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h137n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 23:29:41 btw, anyone knows a cheap, "household" way to dry a room? 23:29:59 p_l|home: fans and fans and fans and fans. 23:29:59 dry a room? O_o 23:30:09 schmrkc: lower moisture level 23:30:12 pour martini on it 23:30:19 lol 23:30:24 fans is what the pros use. so that could work. 23:30:50 depends on what kind of moisture I guess. if it just in the air or you had a bit of a flood and the floor is all messed up. 23:30:54 fans and groupies 23:30:58 hehehe 23:31:04 schmrkc: Pros that I've seen used special moisture-removal devices that had fans, but only as a small part 23:31:11 air dehumidifier. not so pricey 23:31:31 winter also works 23:31:38 p_l|home: I see. when I had my previous flat flooded it was a huge arse fan for a week pretty much. 23:31:40 schmrkc: NorthEast Scotland. Fall. Kinda wet weather, and badly insulated building 23:31:59 I think air dehumidifier 23:32:12 schmrkc: that's a way if the air outside has lower humidity 23:32:31 cold and humid. lovely 23:33:02 with bad insulation is it not much a futile battle? 23:34:04 *stassats* imagines p_l|home stole a Rembrandt painting and wants to preserve it 23:34:34 TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-76-175-244-227.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:34:47 stassats: If I did that, I wouldn't have to deal with the conditions I am in 23:35:11 I'd turn it into liquid untraceable assets fast 23:35:26 yeah, you would have to deal with cops chasing you 23:35:37 -!- new-lisper [~daniel@c95334ae.virtua.com.br] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:35:46 *p_l|home* ponders raiding chemistry dept. 23:36:28 -!- sadf3 [~bryce@173.5.173.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:36:54 making drugs to escape, eh? 23:37:23 -!- upward [~upward@modemcable004.209-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:37:33 I don't wanna open the windows, cause it's cold 23:37:34 so much plots for NaNoWriMo 23:37:54 -!- TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-76-175-244-227.socal.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 23:38:02 sadf3 [~bryce@99-202-119-120.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 23:38:26 stassats: have you seen the line I quoted about father sending kids to school? 23:38:37 desperate junkie lisper steals a work of art and tries to dissolve it into acid to use as drug 23:39:33 hahahaha. marvelous storyline 23:40:00 dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:40:12 >_< 23:40:54 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-141-233.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:41:08 -!- gump [~gauthamg@188.74.82.177] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:41:31 attila_lendvai: reading... 23:41:47 stassats: A father sends his twin children to the school for the first time: Now remember what I told you. twins: Don't kill the teachers. Don't kill the students. Don't kill the lunch lady. Don't kill the janitor. Don't kill the hall monitor. Don't kill the librarian. Don't kill the principal. Don't kill the vice-principal. Right. 23:42:02 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:43:22 gump [~gauthamg@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 23:43:48 attila_lendvai: OK, this may be implicitly mentioned but just to confirm: http://paste.lisp.org/display/115843 23:44:07 Is the output of today correct? Because it doesn't seem to be. 23:45:03 -!- lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:46:08 derrida [~derrida@unaffiliated/deleuze] has joined #lisp 23:47:56 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:49:36 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 23:53:08 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-170-47.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:53:35 -!- gump [~gauthamg@188.74.82.177] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:53:43 lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #lisp 23:53:58 gump [~gauthamg@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 23:54:41 -!- sadf3 [~bryce@99-202-119-120.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:55:33 -!- gump [~gauthamg@188.74.82.177] has quit [Client Quit] 23:55:54 fgump [~gauthamg@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 23:56:02 talyz [~user@ip35.tunnan.riksnet.nu] has joined #lisp 23:57:09 rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 23:58:47 Hmm, I can't reach www.franz.com today. 23:58:52 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-170-47.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 23:59:40 e2xistz [~yi@ool-45705db3.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp