00:00:08 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:00:48 -!- bandu [~coyotama@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:03:51 -!- hipdude [~somebody@99.165.6.218] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:04:09 -!- aidalgol [~user@132.181.15.43] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:08:43 -!- gigamonkey [~user@24-176-255-130.static.reno.nv.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:10:46 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483A7D7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:11:26 gonzojive [~red@171.66.83.44] has joined #lisp 00:12:50 -!- gonzojive [~red@171.66.83.44] has quit [Client Quit] 00:14:01 MorganB [~user@64-238-171-196.cab.apt.gru.net] has joined #lisp 00:17:35 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-69-227-148-197.dsl.renocs.nvbell.net] has joined #lisp 00:18:03 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:18:34 jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 00:18:45 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.53.108] has joined #lisp 00:21:05 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-25-50.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:22:05 Phoodus: i might venture to suggest that if it's difficult to describe and difficult to distil your problem to the size of a paste, you either don't have a clear idea what you're doing, or what you are doing is not the clear way to do what you actually want to do, or both 00:22:51 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-26-134.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:24:23 abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:24:44 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-093-104.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:24:56 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-69-227-148-197.dsl.renocs.nvbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:31:30 ... is rtoym the only person maintaining cmucl these days? 00:31:51 Probably. 00:32:17 Perhaps it should be put out of my misery. 00:32:29 Hunh. I'm simultaneously impressed, incredulous, and horrified. 00:32:50 You might be interested in https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/551227 by the way. 00:36:47 antivigilante [~antivigil@174-26-74-233.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:37:27 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 00:37:38 Thanks. 00:38:17 Your last #'(lambda ...) doesn't do anything on cmucl. Should that be compiled or something? 00:38:26 Yeah, compile it. 00:39:24 Hmm. All I get is a bunch of warnings about F and G being undefined. 00:39:32 Really? Hunh. 00:39:50 It blows up on SBCL. 00:40:28 The original test function in the bug report also compiles without warnings. Maybe the default compiler settings are different? 00:40:35 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 00:41:12 powerje [~powerje@adsl-75-60-217-33.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:41:30 Maybe. 00:42:09 Oh well. If you find a way to get that NIL is not of type NODE message in physenvanal, then this is a likely cause. 00:42:20 You might also find http://paste.lisp.org/display/115587 and http://repo.or.cz/w/sbcl/nyef.git/shortlog/refs/heads/implicit-closure-value-cells to be of interest. 00:42:27 I don't know if CMUCL has anything like it yet. 00:43:55 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 00:44:18 CMUCL has dynamic extent for lists and rest args and maybe some others, but it's turned off because of some stack issues. NLXs, I think, mess up things. 00:44:57 -!- sabalaba__ [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:45:33 This isn't so much affected by stack issues, the main point is that it /doesn't/ allocate a value cell when it can avoid it. 00:48:33 That said, I don't even see the place where I put the analysis part with a quick glance at the cmucl cvs. :-/ 00:49:56 Hmm. Does cmucl even have dynamic-extent closures? I thought not, but it's been a long time. 00:51:42 gigamonkey [~user@99.68.116.221] has joined #lisp 00:52:22 The basic insight is that if a closure is known to be dynamic-extent, then it will be outlived by any of the variables it closes over... so why not allocate said variables as if they /weren't/ closed-over and just pass a pointer to the stack frame instead of to a value-cell. 00:56:05 -!- antivigilante [~antivigil@174-26-74-233.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 00:56:56 Neat. 00:57:57 That said, actually making it work reliably took a bit of figuring out. 01:04:51 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.53.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:10:08 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:11:55 -!- powerje [~powerje@adsl-75-60-217-33.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: powerje] 01:15:54 sellout: herep 01:15:54 gigamonkey, memo from antifuchs: you were right. I'm in rockridge now, and it /is/ very very very nice. 01:16:10 antifuchs: you here? 01:16:43 serichse` [~user@e179103092.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 01:17:16 homie` [~user@xdsl-78-34-248-131.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:17:27 wbooze` [~user@xdsl-78-34-248-131.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:19:18 -!- serichsen [~user@f048065201.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:19:31 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-213-168-95-119.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:20:11 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-213-168-95-119.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:21:35 gigamonkey: t 01:22:38 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:22:51 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu089.queens.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:26:14 sabalaba__ [~sabalaba@219.237.163.115] has joined #lisp 01:26:18 MISSINGNO [~cen@pool-173-77-119-97.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:26:21 Ureka. 01:26:25 I understand it. 01:27:02 austinh [~austinh@c-67-189-92-40.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:28:28 Usually written as Eureka, since it comes from ancient Greek . 01:28:43 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-10-221.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:28:49 Yeah, I noticed that afterwards when I saw my vaccum cleaner. 01:28:51 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-13-5.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:29:01 So, now you don't even have to dodge the bullets? 01:29:01 But I finally understand the language and why it is super cool. 01:29:18 I don't know about that, there are bullets? 01:29:28 ... What, ancient Greek is super cool? 01:29:28 Are you talking about dodging making the bullet lists documents for my manager? 01:29:29 (a "The Matrix" reference). 01:29:46 No, lisp is ancient greek, to me. 01:30:01 So tell us, why is it super cool? 01:30:58 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.28.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:32:46 Because it can do anything I want it to. 01:33:09 And can be anything I want. 01:33:12 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-78-34-248-131.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:33:21 ... Sounds like a failure of desire to me. 01:33:21 -!- wbooze` [~user@xdsl-78-34-248-131.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:33:47 pierrep [~ppasteau@bas1-montreal43-2925256056.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:34:17 -!- echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:34:27 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:35:24 sellout: you doing nanowrimo again this year. You're still one of my writing buddies. 01:35:40 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-8-69.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 01:35:40 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-248-131.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:35:51 -!- qbomb [~qbomb@65.183.106.51] has quit [Quit: /wave] 01:36:10 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:36:45 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-248-131.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:37:05 sellout: Sorry, heading out now. I'll ask you about this again later. 01:37:09 gigamonkey: Unfortunately not. I was considering it, but I have another project 01:37:19 that I want to spend more time on right now. 01:37:32 Hopefully I'll be back to it next year. 01:38:18 MISSINGNO: indeed, that's why Lisp will always win over other (non-lisp) programming languages: because you will always be able to morph it to whatever language you need. 01:40:44 MBAirs are ordered. 01:40:50 *sellout* waits by the door for delivery. 01:41:48 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-248-131.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:41:59 nyef: lol, failure of desire is right :) 01:42:08 -!- gigamonkey [~user@99.68.116.221] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:42:13 -!- emma is now known as emmaldp 01:42:37 -!- emmaldp is now known as emma 01:42:47 yates [~yates@nc-76-3-105-199.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 01:43:14 Xach: did you say you knew why the quicklisp version of weblocks runs slowly? 01:44:11 BrianRice-mb [~briantric@75-94-47-26.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined #lisp 01:44:22 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:44:47 leo2007 [~leo@218.85.170.36] has joined #lisp 01:44:57 -!- eslick [~eslick@173-13-186-118-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:46:13 One of the things I desire is a great reduction in the number of "High" importance bugs in the SBCL tracker. 01:46:36 humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:46:58 echo-area [~user@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 01:49:53 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-215-204.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:50:04 -!- krappie_ [~brain@mx.skitzo.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:50:08 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-10-221.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 01:50:16 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-215-204.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:50:16 krappie_ [~brain@mx.skitzo.org] has joined #lisp 01:50:19 -!- Kovensky [~kovensky@abraxo.bluebottle.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:50:19 -!- mal__ [~mal@www2.wimmekes.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:50:27 -!- _3b [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:50:33 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:51:02 -!- tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:51:12 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-248-131.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:52:04 -!- cYmen [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:52:19 Kovensky [~kovensky@abraxo.bluebottle.net.au] has joined #lisp 01:52:28 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #lisp 01:53:59 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 01:54:16 Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-24-28-30-165.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:55:12 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:56:47 -!- jpanest_ [~jpanest@174-143-154-194.static.cloud-ips.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:56:52 jpanest [~jpanest@174-143-154-194.static.cloud-ips.com] has joined #lisp 01:57:08 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-24-28-30-165.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:58:47 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:58:58 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 02:00:14 mal__ [~mal@www2.wimmekes.net] has joined #lisp 02:00:53 cYmen [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has joined #lisp 02:01:21 nyef: how many are there? 02:03:15 -!- MISSINGNO [~cen@pool-173-77-119-97.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has left #lisp 02:03:18 -!- OliverUv [~gandhi@34.81-167-250.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:04:22 Seventeen. 02:05:28 Three are Fix-Committed, two are In-Progress, three are platform-specific, I've just spent much of today figuring one of them out enough to put together a preliminary patch... 02:06:04 One I'm not convinced is still any sort of real problem, one should be Medium-importance at worst... 02:06:23 And one is known to be Really Hard. 02:06:52 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:07:21 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-10-221.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:08:27 nyef: I'd love to use SBCL on Darwin if it supports threads as well as CCL does. 02:09:31 It supports threads. I can make no claim about comparative support with CCL. 02:09:45 hi all, I'm using sbcl to make a runge-kutta integrator. It works fine for short calculations, but I've been trying a longer one, and after a few seconds, its processor use drops to 0 and it hasn't finishe dyet (I don't think it would take this longm even if it were doing something). any ideas? 02:10:40 fisxoj: Do an interactive interrupt and take a poke around from the debugger to see what (if anything) it's doing? 02:11:04 nyef, how do I do that? :) 02:11:18 or, I guess I could google that 02:11:22 nyef: it is not enabled by default on Darwin right? So there must be some concerns. 02:11:45 I don't know if it's enabled by default. 02:12:11 I am aware that darwin, as an OS, is sufficiently funky to have caused numerous problems, though. 02:12:54 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:13:08 Hrm... Looks like threading is only enabled by default on x86 and x86-64 linux. 02:13:25 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 02:14:43 yan_ [~yan@ool-182f7a37.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:17:44 dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:18:06 -!- bgs100 [~ian@h38.29.131.174.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Quit: past my bedtime] 02:27:50 Ralith_ [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:27:50 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:28:41 just two packages having problems with cmucl20b now named-readtables and cxml, i don't know why clisp can't deal with them too, but sbcl work with all... 02:30:46 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 02:32:07 is Darwin the latest release of OSX? 02:32:18 Darwin is the OS under MacOSX. 02:33:50 ah. add a little icing, some candles, and voila: osx! 02:34:29 Really too bad the underpinnings are so horrible, though. 02:34:47 MacOSX releases are named after felines. 02:35:27 pussies? 02:35:31 Yep. 02:36:02 *yates* left eyebrow raises... 02:36:05 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:36:35 Tiger, Leopard, was Jaguar one? 02:37:24 Now it's Snow Leopard, next year it'll be Lion. I'm waiting for Egyptian Mau http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_EXopv5BJbnY/SkaAmL9yhtI/AAAAAAAABMc/J2gsuTtt92Y/s400/Egyptian+Mau2.jpg 02:37:50 Ooh. Pretty. 02:38:06 ... and reminds me of somekitten. 02:38:14 -!- timack [~tim@hlfx51-2b-163.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:38:27 dys` [~andreas@krlh-5f7218aa.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 02:38:49 How about Abyssinian? 02:39:52 this is why we devised version numbers 02:40:47 -!- dys [~andreas@krlh-5f7216bc.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:43:37 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 02:44:53 Good morning everyone! 02:45:01 Hello beach. 02:46:25 fftw3 fails with cmucl too 02:46:34 i.e. the asdf part 02:47:32 and docutils 02:48:58 -!- _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:50:28 ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 02:51:41 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:51:46 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt is now known as ianmcorvidae 02:56:38 -!- drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:57:04 -!- Ralith_ is now known as Ralith 02:58:37 so, I'm using up all of the heap in just a few seconds... Matlab doesn't seem to have a problem with this, and I think I'm only storing one big structure. Not much info on google about how to fix it. 02:58:43 -!- leo2007 [~leo@218.85.170.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:59:44 Demosthenes [~demo@71.16.32.109] has joined #lisp 02:59:55 -!- xinming [~hyy@115.221.5.71] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:00:08 -!- austinh [~austinh@c-67-189-92-40.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:00:53 xinming [~hyy@115.221.5.71] has joined #lisp 03:01:06 fisxoj: paste your code and a test case if you can. 03:02:26 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.199] has joined #lisp 03:03:39 leo2007 [~leo@218.85.170.36] has joined #lisp 03:04:06 http://paste.lisp.org/+2HC6 those are the two main functions and the exact invocation I'm using 03:04:17 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-178-106.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 03:04:30 I even increased the dynamic allocation to 1000 MB and it ran over 03:08:48 fisxoj: is your package named poincare ? 03:09:08 yea 03:09:27 started writing it to make poincare sections of chaotic pendula simulations 03:10:29 fisxoj: What do the functions k1, k2, k3, and k4 do? 03:10:34 was it working before ? 03:10:58 *p_l|home* is waiting for OSX European Shorthair :P 03:11:00 are you sure the arguments match ? 03:13:42 for pendulum i see 6 arguments passed 03:13:56 for rk i don't see 5 arguments passed 03:14:11 it works for small time ranges 03:14:14 beach, they compute lists of coefficients for the integration process. They each only do a few arithmetic operations and return list with two values in this case 03:14:24 maybe you should use &key or &optional or so 03:14:38 fisxoj: We can't run the code without those. 03:15:09 como [~como@cpe-74-68-159-241.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:16:13 homie: I count 5 arguments to rk. 03:18:49 homie, rk gets the function, 0, 0.01, 10000 and '(0 0) 03:18:49 they're all there 03:19:57 what does the lambda return there ? one value ? 03:20:00 beach, homie: I added the k-functions to the paste 03:20:14 homie, it returns a list of two values 03:20:38 the whole thing is designed to accomodate lists of any length so you can integrate many equations simultaneously 03:20:48 ok then that makes up to 5 args to rk, jep it matches 03:20:54 hmmm 03:21:50 fisxoj: and on how many point does it die? 03:21:57 fisxoj: what is the expected execution time? 03:22:40 pkhuong_: one million points 03:23:10 beach: I'm not sure, 10000 points seems to only take a few seconds 03:23:35 Well, it has been running here for more than 30 seconds and still no crash. 03:23:48 there are 3 issues that I can see here: 1. printing the result will take eons; 2. you're using lists when vectors (especially specialised ones) would be much faster and take less space; 3. you're accumulating all sorts of temporary data. 03:24:13 pkhuong_, I'm sure I am, I obviously don't know lisp well yet 03:24:31 also, I've tried avoiding printing it 03:24:56 fisxoj: how? 03:25:13 pkhuong_, by sending it straight to another function to dump it to a file 03:25:14 fisxoj: I think it actually computes the result, because here it gets to the printing part. 03:25:29 beach, does it? How do you know? 03:26:03 I don't know anything about the low-level debugger other than to type 'backtrace,' so I can't check much 03:26:06 fisxoj: When I interrupt it, it is executing in SBCL printing functions. 03:26:28 fisxoj: SLIME makes for an easier to use debugging environment. 03:27:51 pkhuong_, I can't seem to interrupt it in SLIME 03:28:30 C-c C-c. Unless, of course, the problem is that it's printing data to emacs. 03:28:39 clhs *print-length* 03:28:39 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_pr_lev.htm 03:29:58 fisxoj: Another piece of evidence: When I wrap (length ...) around the call, I get back 10552840 after a minute or so of execution time. 03:30:51 maybe I'll learn about vectors tomorrow and translate it to use that 03:30:55 -!- atomx [~user@92.81.118.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:31:22 fisxoj: Output is still going to be a problem. 03:31:37 fisxoj: that won't fix the problem that you experience awful performance only because you use Lisp in such a way that the results are printed. 03:32:13 what if he stored the results in some file or so ? 03:32:24 or in a string ? 03:32:39 printing that instead will be a problem too ? 03:33:46 homie: printing millions of doubles readably is going to be slow. 03:33:50 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:33:50 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 03:33:50 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 03:36:33 fisxoj: Another thing: you should probably learn to format and indent the code in a way that other Lisp programmers expect. 03:36:38 homie: In what way does fftw3 fail with cmucl? 03:38:19 beach, probably, I don't think it's much of a problem at the moment. Right now I just trust in emacs 03:38:36 and put closing parenthesis where it suits me 03:38:56 fisxoj: But that might turn out to be a bad idea if you want to submit code for others to read. 03:39:32 beach, I don't, it's for me. I'm taking a class where we're doing things in Matlab, and most people don't even know how to use that 03:39:47 I know that writing readable code is important, this just isn't meant to be read much 03:39:54 fisxoj: Er, I was talking about people here on #lisp. 03:40:00 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:40:10 beach, fair enough, you all have been nice enough to help :) 03:40:17 rtoym: not only fftw3, i can't even cross-compile a cmucl20b from cvs with a cmucl20b current release tar version, there is an error in /lisp/print.c 03:40:23 rtoym: http://paste.lisp.org/+2HC7 03:43:10 Dang. It obviously worked for me on Solaris, Mac OS X and Linux. What platform are you using? The cross-compile worked for me a week or so ago when I last did it. 03:43:33 i am on linux, debian 03:43:50 got the binary, and tried to bootstrap the cvs version with it 03:44:28 without success and it does not matter if i cross compile or not, even src/tools/build-worl.sh does not work 03:45:23 homie: Stick "#include " in the beginning of print.c and see if the compile works. 03:45:45 ok 03:46:05 -!- az [~az@p5796C05A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:46:31 Er, the compile of the C runtime. Don't need to try the cross-compile just yet because if the C code doesn't, the Lisp code won't build completely. 03:46:49 jep 03:47:17 trying now, wait 03:49:27 That command for cross-compiling looks wrong too. It should be cross-build-world.sh xcross xtarget, not cross-build-world.sh cmucl src. 03:49:34 _3b [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:49:55 And you can just do src/tools/rebuild-lisp.sh to compile the C code. Or just cd /lisp; make 03:50:52 i thought xcross or xtarget are just placeholders 03:52:07 and my build works here even with cmucl src instead 03:52:56 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:53:05 xcross is where the cross compiler is built. xtarget is where the whole system is built using the cross-compiler. You are putting the resulting cross-compiled code in src. I guess that's ok if you don't mind cluttering up the cvs repo src directory. 03:53:29 az [~az@p4FE4F66A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:54:28 rtoym: it's vice versa xtarget xcross not xcross xtarget 03:54:42 rtoym: at least that what my BUILDING file tells me 03:55:16 Sorry. You're right. 03:55:26 np 03:56:18 now i get another error 03:58:31 http://paste.lisp.org/display/115784 03:59:07 -!- specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:59:47 I just rebuilt the current CVS code using 20b, with the same cross-build-world.sh command that you gave (with different cross/target dirs). 04:00:28 ok i get various of them in a row and i continue until it gets into ldb and then a sigsegv or so 04:01:13 http://paste.lisp.org/+2HC9 04:02:23 homie: Please annotate your pastes instead of creating new ones. 04:02:49 rtoym: aah, so annotation is like extending them ? 04:02:53 eheh 04:02:55 oh man 04:03:13 ok i will 04:03:28 i thought always pastes are one-time... 04:04:01 thanks guys, good night 04:04:03 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 04:04:06 At this point, I would blow away all the fasls in src. Then src/tools/create-target.sh xtarget. src/tools/cross-build-world.sh -crl xtarget cmucl src/tools/cross-scripts/cross-x86-x86.lisp lisp -noinit. 04:04:22 Make sure lisp is 20b. 04:04:26 jep 04:04:29 it is 04:04:45 gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:05:13 (I'd probably also rename cmucl to xcross.) 04:05:34 that was my target 04:05:42 homie: But the C compilation error is gone, right? 04:05:57 jep, the c compilation error is gone 04:06:06 Oh, then rename cmucl to xtarget and create-target.sh xcross, then. 04:06:24 Oh, good. I'll check in that change right now. 04:07:07 now i did 04:07:14 and started afresh 04:07:58 Great. This should work. (Of course, your previous one should have worked too.) 04:08:43 does cmucl use ffcall ? 04:09:04 or does it bring it's own or use the systems ? 04:09:36 cause i got first the haible's then that from savannah installed on my system 04:10:05 and tried to build clisp with ffcall and syscalls and dbus 04:10:22 but dbus is failing --with-module=dbus is doing nothing in the src dir there 04:10:48 cmucl has it's own ffi system. 04:10:48 -!- leo2007 [~leo@218.85.170.36] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.20] 04:10:56 when i cd to src and do make dbus there just conntains a log file but nothing is populated in that dir 04:10:59 anyone want to see a lisp audio game movie thing on youtube? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJw1QSO02CQ 04:11:46 homie: Can't help with the clisp thing. I build clisp, but pretty much take the defaults for everything because I don't really need anything else from clisp. 04:12:13 never mind clisp was also from cvs, maybe the scripts are somehow faults or so 04:12:19 faulty 04:12:51 dto1: GO GO GO! :D 04:13:25 p_l|home: i'm encoding the full trailer now 04:15:10 homie: About fftw3. What fails? 04:15:37 -!- como [~como@cpe-74-68-159-241.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:16:19 como [~como@cpe-74-68-159-241.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:16:46 -!- como is now known as Guest99616 04:18:57 wee, the cross-build succeeded i think, no errors now 04:19:09 wait i'm load fftw3 again to see what the error was 04:21:09 Yay! Now do src/tools/build.sh -o xtarget/lisp/lisp to get a complete build, just to be sure. 04:21:47 -!- yates [~yates@nc-76-3-105-199.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:21:54 -!- Guest99616 [~como@cpe-74-68-159-241.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:22:21 Guest99616 [~como@cpe-74-68-159-241.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:23:20 -!- Guest99616 [~como@cpe-74-68-159-241.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 04:24:17 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:24:50 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 04:24:57 i did a rebuild-lisp.sh xtarget, which succeeded, but a load-worl.sh xtarget "new x86", did not, many .sse2 files were missing or so i recreated the xcross and xtarget anew and am re cross-building now, i think maybe my cmucl was clobbered or so 04:25:19 which i already renamed to xtarget of course 04:26:05 but the /lisp/lisp was there 04:26:16 i mean c part works now 04:27:50 austinh [~austinh@c-67-189-92-40.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:28:00 -!- austinh [~austinh@c-67-189-92-40.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:28:50 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:28:51 rtoym: http://paste.lisp.org/+2HC9/1 regarding fftw3 and cmucl 04:29:24 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 04:29:50 antivigilante [~antivigil@174-26-66-221.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:30:51 Levenson [~Levenson@91.185.12.110] has joined #lisp 04:31:25 it seems there is one smybol not exported in the fftw3 package itself, but i don't get that error when using sbcl instead... 04:31:34 so i don't really know wtf 04:31:48 Looks like cl-fftw3 is missing something. Let me try it.... 04:32:53 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ytxjopanofsokmzc] has joined #lisp 04:35:24 -!- jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:35:27 -!- BrianRice-mb [~briantric@75-94-47-26.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Quit: BrianRice-mb] 04:35:49 Hmm. quickload of cl-fftw3 was great. But I forgot that I don't have fftw3 anywhere. :-( 04:37:10 erm, rtoym do i do the src/tools/buil.sh -o xtarget/lisp/lisp in the whilst in the xtarget dir itself ? 04:38:28 Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has joined #lisp 04:39:47 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:39:49 That's fine, because build.sh will create three new directories: build-2, build-3, build-4, by default. build-4 will have the final result. 04:40:45 I can't test fftw3 problem because I don't have fftw3 anywhere. It will take some time for me to get it. 04:40:45 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@S0106001b63ab3433.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:41:19 joekarma [~joekarma@S0106001b63ab3433.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:41:27 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@S0106001b63ab3433.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:41:37 But your error looks like your fftw3 library doesn't have fftw3_plan_many_dft_r2r. Does it? 04:41:42 OliverUv [~gandhi@34.81-167-250.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 04:48:18 yes 04:48:32 i don't know where it comes from 04:49:04 maybe when it was already compiled within sbcl some other package injected something therein ? 04:49:06 -!- antivigilante [~antivigil@174-26-66-221.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 04:49:08 i don't know 04:49:34 maybe i just should force recompile it within cmucl 04:52:52 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 04:53:00 Recompile fftw3 in cmucl? That doesn't make any sense. 04:53:40 my xtarge/pcl directory is not populated at all 04:53:45 is that normal ? 04:53:54 so the build was just halfway 04:55:17 when i try load-worl.sh there, i get many pcl/blah.sse2 files missing errors and such 04:56:26 eslick [~eslick@70-36-140-187.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 04:56:41 Oh, use load-world.sh -p. PCL isn't built for a cross-compile. 04:57:21 But if you specifed -crl, the -l option says to load everything, so it takes care of adding -p so as not to try to load pcl. 04:57:24 gigamonkey [~user@24-176-255-130.static.reno.nv.charter.com] has joined #lisp 04:59:42 -!- yan_ [~yan@ool-182f7a37.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: yan_] 05:02:56 -!- dys` is now known as dys 05:04:05 a 05:04:40 rtoym: i renamed xtarget to xcross after i built xtarget, and used the old xtarget/lisp/lisp to cross-build again, now i got a walk.sse2 in the pcl directory of the target how come ? 05:05:32 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:05:55 schmrkc: hey! 05:06:54 You messed something up. I wouldn't go randomly renaming directories like that. Too easy to make a mistake. If you want to cross compile using xtarget, rename xtarget to xtarget-old, then create-target.sh xtarget, and give the same cross-build command. 05:07:10 But there's no point in doing a cross-compile again. Do a regular compile. 05:07:22 ok 05:07:48 -!- ecraven [~user@140.78.42.213] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:07:48 dto1: hey dto man. I wrote somethnig in your facebook log. 05:07:52 -!- yakov [~yzaytsev@183.49.62.92.nienschanz.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:08:01 yes i saw your birthday message :) thanks schmrkc 05:08:02 dto1: 7hrs ago actually. 05:08:03 oh 05:08:10 schmrkc: check my wall now for the official trailer 05:08:17 tbh facebook told me it was up. 05:08:23 trailer of? 05:09:14 dto1: hoh. looks totally interesting. 05:09:40 what one should make is something like tekken. but controlled with a dancepad thing. 05:09:42 schmrkc: i don't expect random swedes to remember my birthday. that's what facebook is FOR 05:09:54 schmrkc: there's a gym near here called Dance and Fight 05:10:09 schmrkc: that's a fun idea. hey can you be my exercise consultant on the game? :) 05:10:17 leo2007 [~leo@124.72.161.205] has joined #lisp 05:10:29 your wat wat on the wat game? 05:10:32 yakov [~yzaytsev@183.49.62.92.nienschanz.ru] has joined #lisp 05:10:42 -!- yakov [~yzaytsev@183.49.62.92.nienschanz.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:11:28 happy birthday, dto, enjoy it while it lasts (: 05:11:46 (I suppose it's over now on the east coast anyway. oh well) 05:11:56 homie: Need to go. Look me up tomorrow and I'll see if I can't figure out what's going on. 05:12:46 antifuchs: no it's just starting 05:12:55 ah (: 05:13:00 arbscht: hi. i've definitely got something for lispgames twittah 05:13:10 iaindalton [~user@host-72-174-169-239.cdc-ut.client.bresnan.net] has joined #lisp 05:13:11 check my twitter, perhaps you can just re tweet. 05:13:35 is twat a verb used in twitter world? 05:13:51 ... haahahahahahahahahaha 05:14:18 to twit is a regular verb, I think :) 05:14:59 too bad :) 05:15:21 fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.102.97.201] has joined #lisp 05:15:33 What does the type specifier (mod some-number) mean? 05:16:14 The set of integers producible from x mod some-number. 05:16:33 iaindalton: i think it means an integer between 0 and (1- number) 05:16:33 i always have to check, htough. 05:16:35 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.102.97.201] has quit [Client Quit] 05:16:39 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:17:13 so it's either (integer 0 number) or (integer 0 (number)) 05:17:27 must be the latter 05:17:39 Where do you find that info? I didn't see it inthe CLHS chapter on types; it only says mod must be a compound specifier. 05:18:08 clhs mod 05:18:14 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 05:18:21 l1sp.org/cl/mod 05:18:26 Xach: Thanks! 05:18:28 i'm actually gonna post a revision of that vid with better colors 05:18:35 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 05:18:50 ok bye rtoym, i'm going too 05:18:55 bye all 05:19:08 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-248-131.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:19:22 fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.102.97.201] has joined #lisp 05:19:22 ianmcorvidae: You must have missed the obvious place to look, namely at the symbol index for `mod'. 05:21:01 I used Emacs's describe-symbol, and it brought me to the CLHS's function definition, and I blithely accepted that the info wasn't on that page :| 05:21:13 so I looked at the chapter on types after that 05:21:18 then came here 05:21:26 I am not a clever man 05:24:29 for me the obvious thing was to look at type 05:24:32 which was no good .) 05:27:56 i dont know how to change directory in slime 05:28:02 ,cd is complaining 05:28:27 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:29:54 -!- TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-76-175-244-227.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:31:07 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-248-131.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:31:14 _danb_ [~user@210-84-36-93.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 05:32:27 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 05:34:50 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 05:36:28 Yo. 05:38:56 beach: thanks for the offer (a while back) to put me in touch with Christian Queinnec; sorry I never took you up on it. 05:39:04 ok i got it -- M-x slime-cd. =) 05:39:08 Perhaps when some day I lose my mind and decide to write a definitive history of Lisp. 05:40:29 gigamonkey: you'd better start soon! 05:41:11 pjb: yeah, well, you can't rush losing your mind. 05:41:36 If I were to give up on Code Quorterly, I'd be more likely to try writing a biography of Knuth. 05:41:48 Foremost, lisp history is big! Since it's the oldest language after Fortran... 05:41:56 drl [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 05:43:03 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 05:43:08 But not as old as Knuth. ;-) 05:44:27 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.235.211] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:45:50 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:48:04 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 05:48:23 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE00222d128ba2-CM00222d128b9e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:49:39 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:49:44 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:50:15 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 05:52:43 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:01:01 gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:06:21 is it odd to use (eval (read-from-string ...)) as in http://paste.pocoo.org/show/278707? 06:06:32 -!- dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:11:09 vishesh [~vishesh@119.82.93.73] has joined #lisp 06:11:15 -!- _danb_ [~user@210-84-36-93.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:11:16 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 06:12:42 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 06:14:31 Dangerous. 06:15:01 Why are you using eval? 06:15:12 okflo [~okflo@91-115-84-39.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 06:16:06 -!- vishesh [~vishesh@119.82.93.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:17:44 is there a simple way to map a function to an array? 06:17:57 Um, what would that mean? 06:18:06 maphash for arrays 06:18:12 map? 06:18:22 :D 06:18:23 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 06:19:58 arrays are not sequences 06:20:00 ? 06:20:08 -!- gigamonkey [~user@24-176-255-130.static.reno.nv.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:20:38 Some of them are. 06:20:46 Use a displaced array if necessary. 06:20:54 well, vectors are :P 06:21:04 vectors are arrays in CL. 06:21:21 (make-array '(10 10)) 06:21:40 Re-read what I wrote. 06:22:20 flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has joined #lisp 06:22:20 -!- flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has quit [Changing host] 06:22:20 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 06:28:16 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:30:49 -!- okflo [~okflo@91-115-84-39.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:31:23 -!- PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:36:48 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:37:51 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:39:33 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:39:47 Zhivago: when an array is not a sequence? Just wondering, mind you... is it th case for n-dimensional ones? (where n>1)? 06:40:00 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:42:43 an array is never a sequence according to the class diagram. 06:42:52 a vector is both an array and a sequence though. 06:42:58 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-125-128.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 06:46:07 An array of one dimension is a vector, which is a sequence. 06:46:18 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:46:30 You can use a one-dimensional displaced array upon an array of higher dimension. 06:46:32 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 06:46:48 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:47:56 I'd much rather that array was a subclass of vector, and array added a multidimensional accessor, leaving the basic vector accessor to operate like row-major-aref, but there you have it. 06:48:39 zhivago: is there an easy way to get a slice of an array? Eg. for a 2-dimensional array, get an x- or y- vector? 06:49:32 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:50:04 Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has joined #lisp 06:51:06 ehu: See http://www.ai.mit.edu/projects/iiip/doc/CommonLISP/HyperSpec/Body/syscla_vector.html 06:51:16 ehu: Any one-dimensional array is a vector. 06:53:21 dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:53:25 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:53:55 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 06:54:16 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:54:25 timor [~timor@port-92-195-11-101.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 06:55:00   cl-pop  .   ..      ? 06:55:26 Levenson: An interesting theory. 06:56:35 oO 06:56:56 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-60-2.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo] 06:58:15 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:58:42 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:59:09 -!- dto1 is now known as dto 06:59:57 folks, the final version of the trailer for my lisp sound game is up at http://lispgamesdev.blogspot.com 06:59:59 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:03:11 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:03:20 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:03:48 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 07:04:14 daniel___ [~daniel@p5B32652B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:07:47 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:07:50 -!- daniel_ [~daniel@p5B32629C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:08:28 -!- sabalaba__ [~sabalaba@219.237.163.115] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:08:33 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-tvctncuqwriygmza] has joined #lisp 07:08:53 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 07:09:03 sabalaba__ [~sabalaba@219.237.163.115] has joined #lisp 07:24:17 What would be a typical max stack depth in a CL implementation? 07:25:46 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 07:26:12 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:26:42 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 07:28:50 All I need is an order of magnitude. Like is it closer to 1000 or closer to 100000. 07:29:58 dto: hark to say without playing, but it doesn't look fun 07:31:53 -!- leo2007 [~leo@124.72.161.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:32:31 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 07:33:44 spiaggia: on modern hardware, I'd say closer to 100000 or even 1000000. 07:34:00 In any case, on unix it should be configurable with ulimit, in general. 07:35:05 -!- vinnana [~pkensche@cmbipc58.cmbi.umcn.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:36:39 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-25-78.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:36:54 *p_l|home* once managed ... it was somewhere in the range of 2^30 07:36:54 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ytxjopanofsokmzc] has left #lisp 07:38:56 that was on haskell, though, but the stack depth was OS-related, actually 07:39:25 pjb: Thanks. 07:40:58 -!- iaindalton [~user@host-72-174-169-239.cdc-ut.client.bresnan.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:41:24 spiaggia: really depends what you'll get in practice: some implementations eliminate tail calls, others don't 07:42:23 ehu: This will be a case where the calls are not tail calls. Otherwise the question would not be interesting. 07:42:26 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:42:59 SBCL seems to be able to handle 10000 out of the box, but not 100000. 07:43:44 There were some tape readers who were able to read tapes in both dirrections. They could have been used to implement a stack swap. 07:43:47 spiaggia: the question *is* interesting, even in case of tail calls, because some implementations don't eliminate those types of calls. 07:45:43 loxs [~loxs@213.169.45.106] has joined #lisp 07:45:56 Hun [~Hun@80.81.19.29] has joined #lisp 07:46:03 vinnana [~pkensche@cmbipc58.cmbi.umcn.nl] has joined #lisp 07:47:59 Krystof [~csr21@cpc1-bour2-0-0-cust414.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:49:48 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 07:51:38 -!- The_Jon_Smith [~The_Jon_S@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has left #lisp 07:52:45 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 07:52:51 beaumonta [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 07:53:00 Josh19901 [~General@183.23.127.98] has joined #lisp 07:53:50 -!- Josh19901 [~General@183.23.127.98] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:54:24 splittist [~John@227-179.203-62.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 07:54:27 morning 07:54:49 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-10-221.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 07:55:29 -!- daniel___ is now known as daniel 07:57:06 hello splittist 07:57:22 Jabberwockey [~jgrabarsk@85.22.93.138] has joined #lisp 07:57:30 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:58:48 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:58:58 good morning 08:00:23 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:00:34 hello mvilleneuve 08:02:56 Hello spiaggia and mvilleneuve 08:03:49 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.28.162] has joined #lisp 08:13:11 mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has joined #lisp 08:13:11 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has quit [Changing host] 08:13:11 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 08:16:47 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:19:35 mega1 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[~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 10:56:38 -!- gump [~gauthamg@cpat001.wlan.net.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:57:05 Quiet here today! 10:57:30 -!- iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@119.192.12.119] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:59:48 iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@119.192.12.119] has joined #lisp 11:00:10 Joreji [~thomas@83-070.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:01:03 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-156-124.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 11:05:15 -!- OliverUv [~gandhi@34.81-167-250.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:05:37 OliverUv [~gandhi@34.81-167-250.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 11:13:24 aerique [~euqirea@aerique.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 11:13:24 -!- humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:17:56 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.28.162] has joined #lisp 11:20:01 _mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 11:21:07 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:21:07 -!- m4thrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:22:43 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.235.211] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:23:12 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:27:07 it means people are busy hacking! 11:28:00 Excellent! 11:29:56 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-64-86.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:33:27 -!- iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@119.192.12.119] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:35:19 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:38:55 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.42] has joined #lisp 11:40:18 *relcomp* is busy inking paper. 11:44:27 ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has joined #lisp 11:45:24 relcomp: that's one of the activities I execute while hacking, actually. 11:46:55 iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@119.192.12.119] has joined #lisp 11:50:07 ehu: My inking is hacking-related, too: trying to proove correctness. 11:50:14 *prove 11:50:31 that's tough, usually. 11:51:40 Yes, but fun. 11:53:49 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:53:54 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:54:12 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@218.82.22.43] has joined #lisp 11:56:40 huwenfeng [~huwenfeng@218.107.55.195] has joined #lisp 11:59:33 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:00:56 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@218.82.22.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:01:37 xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@58.41.29.188] has joined #lisp 12:06:22 -!- iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@119.192.12.119] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:09:55 ska` [~user@203.146.146.169] has joined #lisp 12:11:16 -!- xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@58.41.29.188] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:11:46 -!- SCVirus [~B234651@S0106001c1122940c.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:15:42 p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 12:17:46 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@212.66.226.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:21:37 -!- stokachu` is now known as stokachu 12:23:39 PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 12:24:18 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:26:18 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 12:29:12 kiuma [~kiuma@212.66.226.129] has joined #lisp 12:29:29 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:35:39 minion: memo for homie: Check paste http://paste.lisp.org/display/115785#2. That symbol doesn't exist for me for the two versions of fftw3 that I tried. 12:35:39 Remembered. I'll tell homie when he/she/it next speaks. 12:40:40 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:46:15 nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-178-106.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 12:46:25 pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has joined #lisp 12:50:37 -!- _mathrick is now known as mathrick 12:53:06 Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has joined #lisp 12:54:50 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:58:05 -!- aerique [~euqirea@aerique.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ..] 12:58:39 ... would you consider generating specialised methods during class definition to be viable practice? (sorry for vauge description, but it was something that came to me while walking to the university) 12:59:58 p_l|uni: accessors *are* methods. 13:01:32 ehu: generic functions? 13:02:02 generic functions need methods to *do* anything. 13:02:11 so, I'd say both. 13:02:49 ehu: well, i'd say accessors are generic functions, with automatically generated methods 13:03:17 jdz: does that make my answer to p_l|uni different? 13:03:18 and i don't really understand p_l's question 13:03:46 -!- ska` [~user@203.146.146.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:04:06 stassats [~stassats@pppoe.178-66-6-38.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 13:04:11 -!- stassats [~stassats@pppoe.178-66-6-38.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Changing host] 13:04:11 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:05:16 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:09:19 Well, they don't need methods to signal a no-applicable-method condition. 13:11:34 lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@167.80-203-136.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 13:16:13 iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@119.192.12.119] has joined #lisp 13:19:40 cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.27.209] has joined #lisp 13:19:59 _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 13:20:21 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.235.211] has joined #lisp 13:20:57 -!- Hun [~Hun@80.81.19.29] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:21:09 nah, I think I understand it clearer in my mind right now - I was basically considering generating methods specialized on the class based on the parameters provided to DEFCLASS (the class itself using a custom metaclass). But accessors' existence kinda answers my question (and coffee just kicked in) 13:22:06 coffee lag sucks 13:22:22 Hun [~Hun@80.81.19.29] has joined #lisp 13:23:27 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.55.228] has joined #lisp 13:23:31 *splittist* remembers he wants a function to automatically write a :defualt-initargs clause for slots with :initargs but no :initforms 13:24:36 splittist: http://dpaste.com/261900/ 13:24:40 does that help? 13:27:09 navigator [~navigator@p54897FDB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:28:41 -!- MorganB [~user@64-238-171-196.cab.apt.gru.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:28:44 -!- sharps [~user@ip-118-90-124-109.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:30:16 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-248-131.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:31:53 hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:02 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:35:55 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:35:59 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.102.97.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:36:58 tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour2-0-0-cust414.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 13:39:36 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-64-86.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:40:11 rrice [~rrice@adsl-69-221-165-176.dsl.akrnoh.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:17 homie` [~user@xdsl-78-34-249-166.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:40:36 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-249-166.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:40:59 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 13:41:27 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-78-34-249-166.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:41:46 PuffTheMagic: thanks, but I really meant an /elisp/ function (: 13:41:54 ska` [~user@ppp-58-8-67-221.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 13:42:59 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-248-131.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:43:23 homie` [~user@xdsl-78-34-249-166.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:43:32 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:43:51 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-78-34-249-166.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:44:38 dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 13:46:06 yates [~yates@nc-76-3-105-199.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 13:46:27 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:47:10 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-64-57.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 13:48:38 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 13:49:01 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-249-166.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:55:18 Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:55:38 does ldb abstract away the endianness of the machine it runs on? 13:56:06 it doesn't know what endianness is 13:56:09 clhs ldb 13:56:22 bummer 13:56:27 bot down? 13:56:41 minion: where is specbot? 13:56:41 behind you! 13:57:02 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:57:21 Oh, joy. Specbot gone? 13:57:50 behind me is a wall, no specbot there 13:57:51 Xach is filling in for all your language lawyering needs 13:58:14 http://l1sp.org/cl/ldb 13:58:45 specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 13:59:03 There you go, one specbot. 14:01:06 wondering how to update a package that's already installed using quicklisp 14:01:52 (ql:update-all-dists) 14:02:07 quicklisp "prefetches" the packages - does that get it to update it's main repository? 14:02:07 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:02:14 s/it's/its/ 14:02:16 thwap 14:02:54 (update-all-dists) 14:03:07 Xach is in reno atm, so there aren't any updates. :) 14:03:16 Ok Hun 14:03:26 (that sounds funny) 14:03:29 don't get fresh wth me, mister. 14:03:42 Fade: i think (s)he meant me ;) 14:03:52 *Fade* laughs 14:04:02 <-- coffee lag 14:04:15 more coffee is good 14:04:35 no, more tea is good! 14:05:03 (combine tea coffee) => AWESOME 14:05:21 coffee, tea, or ... her? 14:05:37 rap rap rap, they call him the rapper 14:05:47 but i digress.. 14:05:52 someone had too much coffee 14:06:38 and not enough tea 14:08:23 p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 14:09:58 wow - weird message: 14:10:02 ; Evaluation aborted on #" {100704C091}>. 14:10:36 that was emitted when i evaluated (ql_update-dist "weblocks-demo") 14:10:50 (ql:update-dist "weblocks-demo") 14:10:58 yates: ... let me guess, UK keyboard? 14:11:12 (UK laptop, that is) 14:11:34 no - undisciplined mind 14:11:37 heh 14:12:09 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:12:38 how do you get the function documentation in slime? 14:12:44 sbcl/slime, i.e. 14:12:53 M-. 14:12:56 will show the def'n 14:13:29 hm. well what was wrong with (ql:update-dist "weblocks-demo")? 14:13:47 that looks exactly like the way to invoke that function 14:14:18 it looks to me like update-dist is a generic function that doesn't have a specialisation on a string. 14:15:06 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:15:07 -!- vinnana [~pkensche@cmbipc58.cmbi.umcn.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:15:24 minion: generic function 14:15:24 watch out, you'll make krystof angry 14:15:26 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:15:31 Does anyone know what causes this warning http://paste.lisp.org/display/115796 14:16:03 you don't use the variable INT? 14:16:07 yates: anyhow, there aren't any updates in quicklisp the past few days. 14:16:13 sorry STREAM 14:16:17 Fade: how do you know that? 14:16:23 tcr: omg 14:16:34 CL-USER> (update-all-dists) 14:16:35 No update available for "quicklisp 2010-10-07". 14:16:45 oh! 14:16:53 also, because Xach is in Reno for ILC 14:16:57 i thought that meant quicklisp itself was not updated. 14:17:01 tcr: well, actually, it doesn't use INT 14:17:02 no 14:17:09 tcr: but I do use stream 14:17:14 it means that there are no packages in the dist that have updates. 14:17:21 That is a weird warning. 14:17:35 sepi: change NUM to INT 14:17:40 sepi: You have a typo, you use NUM instead of INT 14:17:43 the compiler can optimize the loop away I think 14:17:48 darn - Leslie Polzer updated weblocks-demo for me but now i can't get it 14:17:57 sepi: and fix parenthesis 14:18:10 (ldb (byte 8 (* i 8)) int) 14:18:34 stassats: ahh, thanks, that was it :) 14:18:47 tcr: thanks 14:18:52 yates: you can 14:19:08 -!- stettberger [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:19:08 download the updated repo and put it on your asdf path. 14:19:13 stettberger [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has joined #lisp 14:19:31 that should override the system in quicklisp 14:19:34 Didn't sbcl produce an error about ldb having the wrong number of arguments? That's way more relevant than the stream warning. 14:20:14 sbcl does produce it, that's how i caught it 14:20:17 Fade: ok, let me give that a shot! 14:21:26 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483AF03.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:22:18 -!- stettberger [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 14:22:46 stassats: Ok. My question was more directed at sepi who missed the important part. 14:23:22 i guess my answer was directed to him too 14:23:30 sabalaba__ [~sabalaba@221.221.232.65] has joined #lisp 14:23:47 yates: are you at limedrive? :) 14:25:28 stettberger [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has joined #lisp 14:26:46 Hun: re: shot? ha! 14:27:04 hmm? 14:27:16 Hun: what are you talking about? 14:27:29 "Hun shot first"? 14:27:36 i've lost semantic phaselock with Hun 14:27:41 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 14:28:00 re-acquiring signal... 14:28:21 yates: because you mentioned lpolzer. he works at limedrive (lisp based startup near me) 14:28:24 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:28:26 kruth [~chatzilla@kruth.org] has joined #lisp 14:28:38 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.28.162] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:28:39 -!- stettberger [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 14:28:56 didn't know he released libs to public 14:29:09 -!- sabalaba__ [~sabalaba@221.221.232.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:29:10 Hun: oh! no, i've just been exchanging messages with him and others via the weblocks mailing list (/google group) 14:29:29 it's on weblocks-dev, i just noticed about 4 minutes ago 14:29:45 Hun: he's involved in weblocks 14:29:59 stassats: yeah, read that 2 minutes ago 14:30:18 redline6561 [~redline@gate-30.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 14:30:26 but the original author is someone else 14:30:28 iirc 14:30:47 i wanna make cool web 2.0 apps with it... 14:31:11 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 14:31:13 web 2.0 is so last decade 14:31:21 make web 3.0 apps! 14:31:23 oh my 14:31:35 ok then, web 65536.0 apps! 14:31:46 oh noes, we need 17 bits to safe that 14:31:47 17-bit apps! 14:31:48 stettber` [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has joined #lisp 14:31:49 ha! 14:32:17 web google.0 apps? 14:32:23 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:32:35 -!- huwenfeng [~huwenfeng@218.107.55.195] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:32:37 always remember which side of your bits are bigger. it sucks to use an oscilloscope to find out endianness 14:33:00 Fade: how do i modify the asdf path? 14:33:15 Bronsa [~bronsa@host192-119-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 14:33:15 push stuff to asdf:*central-registry* 14:33:20 (imposing Fade) 14:33:43 is that something i should add to .sbclrc? 14:34:07 you might, if you don't want to type it in after each start 14:34:29 (push #P"/foo/bar" asdf:*central-registry*) 14:34:36 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:34:58 -!- stettber` [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:34:59 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.27.209] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:35:02 timepilot [~timepilot@66.71.230.233] has joined #lisp 14:35:02 stettber` [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has joined #lisp 14:35:40 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.105.11] has joined #lisp 14:35:57 Hun/Fade: do i do anything else to get the package (weblocks) to load or can i still rely on (ql:quickload "weblocks-demo")? 14:36:21 i guess that might work. haven't tried it though 14:36:44 are these called "packages" or "systems"? 14:36:46 if you want to hack your own stuff, have a look at xach's tutorial to packages 14:36:49 sabalaba__ [~sabalaba@221.221.232.65] has joined #lisp 14:36:59 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-tvctncuqwriygmza] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:37:00 i think in ql, they're called dists 14:37:03 and what's the difference? 14:37:16 think of packages as namespaces inside your program 14:37:32 ok, and a system? 14:37:45 asdf term for `stuff you can load' 14:37:57 ah 14:38:09 -!- stettber` [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 14:38:12 http://www.xach.com/lisp/asdf-tutorial/ 14:38:46 i don't know how well that meshes with ql, as ql is rather new. 14:40:14 ok, thanks Hun 14:40:26 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host192-119-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:40:42 is quicklisp that good? i see a conversation about it here everyday, i used to try tools like clbuild but i never seen one of them being talked about that much 14:40:58 it is very easy 14:41:02 Yuuhi [benni@p5483AF03.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:41:06 it's quite nice. only fetched packages with it yet, though 14:42:44 kenanb: it's a single file install, works out of the box, fetches and builds dependencies and loads them. without depending on tar and wget 14:43:34 gigamonkey [~user@24-176-255-130.static.reno.nv.charter.com] has joined #lisp 14:44:39 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:44:58 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 14:46:13 hallelujah! 14:47:09 kenanb: It did everything I asked it to do until now :) 14:48:18 -!- navigator [~navigator@p54897FDB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 14:50:42 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:55:00 -!- benny [~benny@i577A2D36.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:56:54 -!- Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-24-28-30-165.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: I'm big in Japan] 14:57:17 Modius [~Modius@cpe-24-28-30-165.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:02:56 -!- Hun [~Hun@80.81.19.29] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:03:24 gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:03:40 -!- redline6561 [~redline@gate-30.spsu.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:03:59 fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.79.96.101] has joined #lisp 15:03:59 benny [~benny@i577A2967.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:04:11 -!- wvdschel [~wim@unaffiliated/yukito] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:04:18 -!- Krystof [~csr21@cpc1-bour2-0-0-cust414.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:05:07 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:05:09 -!- sabalaba__ [~sabalaba@221.221.232.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:05:17 antivigilante [~antivigil@174-26-66-221.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:07:55 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-25-78.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:08:21 -!- Jabberwockey [~jgrabarsk@85.22.93.138] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:09:30 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:10:50 -!- lnostdal-laptop [~lnostdal@167.80-203-136.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:14:14 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:17:06 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:20:16 milanj [~milanj_@93-87-167-162.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 15:24:08 yates either quickload or the asdf op should pick up the new weblocks you pushed onto asdf:*central-registry* 15:24:48 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 15:25:22 prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-37-169.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 15:25:48 -!- prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-37-169.xnet.hr] has left #lisp 15:25:54 prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-37-169.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 15:27:15 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 15:27:47 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-084-056-181-159.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 15:28:03 How to concatenate a string and a number to get a variable name ? 15:28:33 aha 15:29:10 prljavi_hari: (intern (format nil "~a~d" string number)) 15:29:35 thanks 15:29:54 prljavi_hari: And now the traditional question: Why do you want to do that? 15:30:27 Fade: how would quicklisp know where i placed the git clone of the updated weblocks? 15:30:44 i.e., if i picked it up with quickload versus the asdf op 15:30:58 quicklisp uses asdf 15:31:07 oh yeah 15:31:09 so any system that asdf can find, quickload can load. 15:31:19 what "asdf op" were you referring to? 15:32:18 beach: I have images in a table (cl-who) and want to give them names by calculated id 15:32:20 (asdf:load-system system ...) 15:32:26 or whatever. 15:32:33 you should check out an asdf tutorial. 15:32:46 agreed. thank you. 15:32:53 prljavi_hari: It would probably be better to use a hash table. 15:33:03 (require 'stuff) is just sugar for an expanded asdf: command. 15:33:20 maybe 15:33:28 Fade: what, push followed by load? 15:34:00 skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:20 clhs require 15:34:20 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_provid.htm 15:34:21 no 15:34:31 -!- gnooth [~gnooth@ip98-176-79-151.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:34:40 asdf:*central-registry* is managed for asdf outside asdf itself by the user 15:34:49 so they can scope which systems are visible to their lisp. 15:35:39 you can only require systems that asdf knows about. 15:36:07 mmm. i need to read up. 15:36:16 i'd say so. :) 15:38:32 wvdschel [~wim@unaffiliated/yukito] has joined #lisp 15:38:48 fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-084-056-181-159.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:39:22 -!- prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-37-169.xnet.hr] has left #lisp 15:39:40 While searching for system "weblocks-demo": #P"/home/yates/lisp-packages/weblocks-dev" evaluated to #P"/home/yates/lisp-packages/weblocks-dev" which is not a directory. 15:39:48 but it IS a directory! 15:40:07 in lisp a pathname designating a directory must end in a '/' 15:40:19 doh 15:40:22 Yeah, a directory pathname ends in a slash. 15:40:44 Arguably, a better message might be "is not a directory pathname". 15:40:47 pathnames in lisp are twitchy compared to other environments. 15:42:11 that's pretty cool since i established the exact same convention in my master (custom) gnu makefile configuration file (for other more normal languages like C).. 15:42:22 see the chapter "A Portable Pathname Library" in PCL for ellucidation. 15:42:25 -!- drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:42:33 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:42:37 a lot of stuff to read around here... 15:42:58 lisp is a ramp for learning. there's no doubt about it. 15:43:39 hoping the (eventual) increases in capability and productivity will make it well-worth it... 15:43:47 In the immortal words of Jeff Spicolli: "Hey, like, up this ramp?" 15:43:56 *Fade* laughs 15:44:25 alright! now we got some action! 15:44:36 -!- relcomp [~chatzilla@nat.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has left #lisp 15:44:44 let's see if Leslie's fix works... 15:45:00 did lisp find the correct weblocks? 15:45:12 heckifiknow 15:45:17 how do i check? 15:45:24 well, the compile output would have had the pathname for the files it compiled. 15:45:34 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-29-91.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:45:35 compile? 15:45:50 who compiled anything? 15:45:50 DESCRIBE of one of the functions should tell you the path to the source file it was defined in. 15:46:16 Why are giant :emacs-rex swank:autodoc messages appearing in my minibuffer? (And can I stop it?) 15:46:21 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-125-128.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:46:26 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-8-69.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:46:34 in your minibuffer? 15:46:58 eldoc 15:46:58 homie, memo from rtoym: Check paste http://paste.lisp.org/display/115785#2. That symbol doesn't exist for me for the two versions of fftw3 that I tried. 15:47:01 (describe 'call/cc) 15:47:47 ayup - getting it from my new development directory - yippee 15:47:52 this is almost fun! 15:48:24 tcr: yeah. I'm typing a giant 'define-foo' form - but of course I haven't defined 'define-foo' yet, so swank is sol trying to tell me about it. (Hmm, eldoc) 15:48:55 hot-diggity dog - it runs FAST!!!!!!!!! 15:49:00 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756359.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:49:02 yippeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 15:49:07 kclifton [~kclifton@s198-166-45-245.ab.hsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 15:49:24 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 15:49:25 did he say what interraction /w quicklisp was causing the slowdown? 15:49:43 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:50:12 Fade: http://groups.google.com/group/weblocks/browse_thread/thread/60e2341fe3cd709d?hl=en 15:50:23 no 15:50:35 i'm sure Xach would be interested in the answer. 15:52:14 -!- timepilot [~timepilot@66.71.230.233] has quit [Quit: timepilot] 15:52:21 minion: memo to Xach: Leslie Polzer implemented a fix in weblocks that corrected the slowness problem (apparently it has something to do with a bad interaction with quicklisp). http://groups.google.com/group/weblocks/browse_thread/thread/60e2341fe3cd709d?hl=en 15:52:21 Remembered. I'll tell Xach when he/she/it next speaks. 15:53:08 minion: memo to Xach: PS: the update is in the weblocks-dev branch 15:53:08 Remembered. I'll tell Xach when he/she/it next speaks. 15:54:32 does anybody know how to do the quivalent of 'git log -u' in mercurial? 15:54:41 s/quiv/equiv 15:57:59 Fade: hg log -p ? 15:58:07 -!- konr [~user@201.82.132.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:58:18 thanks, fe[nl]ix 15:58:19 -!- antivigilante [~antivigil@174-26-66-221.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 16:00:06 As some of you may know, National Instruments' "LabView" is a system that allows complex test system to be constructed. It relies on an extremely extensive, well-developed "graphical" "programming language" called "G". 16:00:34 hahaha 16:00:37 "G" is diametrically opposite of the lisp paradigm 16:00:37 "well-developed" 16:00:40 it's a pile of shit 16:00:56 tell us what you really think! ;) 16:00:59 is there a lisp package for doing "G"/LabView programming? 16:01:10 i know it's a reach... 16:01:56 fe[nl]ix: i think any programming language that forces you to program with gui objects is very much broken... 16:02:25 afaik there is no "script" or otherwise textual way to program labview 16:02:30 i guess you could find out what those objects transform into and target that. 16:02:56 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@189.66.18.18] has joined #lisp 16:03:00 yeah... in my free time? 16:03:14 this sounded to me like something you'd do at work. 16:03:16 :) 16:03:23 oh HELL no. 16:03:38 the boss wants to "ship products", not do tool development 16:04:00 Fade: it allows electronic engineers who know nothing of programming to write loops as if they were microchips 16:04:01 even though ultimately the one would greatly increase the other (i believe) 16:04:13 The advantage to graphical languages (or builders) is how easily they sell themselves to people who don't have to deal directly with the consequences. 16:04:17 fe[nl]ix: huh 16:04:39 Fade: «Me: what's that ? it looks like a transistor. Him(EE): no, you silly, it's a for loop» 16:04:53 lol 16:05:01 lnostdal-web [50cb88a7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.203.136.167] has joined #lisp 16:05:17 couldn't they just use forth? :) 16:05:32 one thing you have to admit: they have prospered greatly since first hitting the market in the 80s 16:05:52 -!- lnostdal-web [50cb88a7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.203.136.167] has quit [Client Quit] 16:06:04 There is LabView scripting 16:07:14 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:07:14 hadn't seen that, but it is 3rd party (not that that is a problem) 16:07:19 gnooth [~gnooth@ip98-176-79-151.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:08:08 if this thing has been around since the 80's the graphical block diagram is going to be represented as some hoary proprietary binary format. 16:08:19 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@212.66.226.129] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 16:08:23 Fade: isn't forth basically assembly in reverse polish? :) 16:08:44 (3 4 MPY) 16:08:45 as your attorney, I advise you to steer clear. 16:08:54 of G, not forth. 16:08:56 Noted. 16:08:56 forth is interesting. 16:09:01 yates: what is this? http://decibel.ni.com/content/docs/DOC-4973 16:09:11 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:10:13 splittist: i guess i jumped to the wrong conclusion - thanks 16:10:15 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 16:10:42 well, no 16:10:43 gump [~gauthamg@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 16:10:59 "As this is an "NI Labs" product, NI will not be supporting LabVIEW Scripting through Applications Engineering. All technical issues should be posted on the API Community." 16:10:59 16:11:19 -!- gigamonkey [~user@24-176-255-130.static.reno.nv.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:11:20 2.5 party, i guess... 16:11:56 yates: sure. But it's there if you want it (: 16:12:27 yah. something better than point-and-click 16:13:23 gotta go write some sql... back in a few hours... 16:22:14 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu022.queens.ox.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 16:23:56 -!- wvdschel [~wim@unaffiliated/yukito] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:24:36 -!- splittist [~John@227-179.203-62.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: shutting down for the weekend...] 16:28:35 jeti [~jeti@p54B467F7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:29:52 -!- pdo [~pdo@217.33.254.141] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:30:04 -!- Levenson [~Levenson@91.185.12.110] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:31:07 -!- zomgbie_ [~jesus@chello212186106204.11.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:31:14 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@chello212186106204.11.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:31:58 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:33:39 -!- jeti [~jeti@p54B467F7.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 16:34:29 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:49:43 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@189.66.18.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:49:58 oh man asdf:compile-op :bla :force t fails now on several libs, which were already installed 16:51:16 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 16:51:28 Edward__ [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-4-13.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:53:45 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@189.66.46.98] has joined #lisp 16:55:34 homie: because it tries to recompile everything 16:56:24 you can try ,reload-system in slime (slime-asdf contrib), though it doesn't cover 100% cases 16:57:12 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 16:57:17 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 16:57:24 ASDF-TMP-package.fasl gets written, but then i have several issues 16:57:52 the first one failing is though clsql 16:58:10 with a function which can't be foudn or somethin like that 16:58:33 or rather clsql:uffi something 16:59:32 ah UFFI:DEFAULT-FOREIGN-LIBRARY-TYPE 16:59:37 are you doing this on some non-linux platform? 16:59:52 nope it is linux 17:00:18 i've got simliar issues with CLSQL, and gave up on it. but on linux try following the manual. that made wonders for me. :) 17:01:03 it's not clsql itself failing, i even did the testing yesterday, and it works, the issue is with the recompilation steps of several libs 17:01:25 zomgbie [~jesus@212095007094.public.telering.at] has joined #lisp 17:01:31 zomgbie_ [~jesus@212095007094.public.telering.at] has joined #lisp 17:02:36 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 17:04:18 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@189.66.46.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:04:52 ok i can continue and get at that here after the first failure http://paste.lisp.org/+2HCO 17:10:01 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@189.66.236.144] has joined #lisp 17:12:16 -!- zomgbie_ [~jesus@212095007094.public.telering.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:13:19 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@212095007094.public.telering.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:16:47 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:17:26 powerje [~powerje@dhcp-128-146-114-173.osuwireless.ohio-state.edu] has joined #lisp 17:18:03 in ccl, is there some way to make the :directories argument in cl:directory default to t? 17:18:47 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-070.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:19:07 pmd: You can shadow the symbol in whatever package you're using it in. 17:19:23 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:19:29 (and make a wrapper function) 17:19:30 or advise it 17:21:04 guidj0s [~juju@97-81-251-38.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:21:09 thanks. i'm wondering why is it nil by default... 17:21:54 -!- gump [~gauthamg@188.74.82.177] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:22:39 You're seriously suggesting shadowing in that case? 17:23:06 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 17:23:33 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:23:52 hargettp [~hargettp@dhcp-162.mirrorimage.net] has joined #lisp 17:23:55 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:24:47 right now, i was #+:cll :directories #+:ccl t everywhere, but that's kind of ugly and unmaintainable, not to mention about loading asdf systems... 17:25:00 Kerrick [~Kerrick@c16-1.nat.iastate.edu] has joined #lisp 17:25:43 oh great, now cl-fad is broken on ccl 17:26:22 #.`(directory ,@(when (member :ccl *features*) ':directories t)) ? 17:26:34 stassats: due to advising cl:directory? 17:27:01 -!- xan_ [~xan@p1089-ipbf15tokaisakaetozai.aichi.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Good night!] 17:27:11 pmd: no, because they ccl now has ccl:delete-directory, and cl-fad tries to define ccl:delete-directory 17:27:34 i wonder why it seemed like a good idea to define symbols into implementation package 17:29:50 konr [~user@201.82.132.104] has joined #lisp 17:29:51 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@c16-1.nat.iastate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:32:43 gump [~gauthamg@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 17:33:15 p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 17:33:36 stassats: thanks for indirectly pointing me to cl-fad, it has what i want: a portable way of listing directory contents 17:34:17 although current code that relies on cl:directory may still fail (for some definition of fail) 17:37:55 -!- kruth [~chatzilla@kruth.org] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 17:39:20 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.70.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:39:38 pmd: yeah, i was trying to look if it has what you were looking for, but stumbled on the above bug 17:40:07 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.153.164] has joined #lisp 17:41:06 -!- beaumonta [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:41:36 i am trying to run glaw, i got several fd-stream decoding errors while compiling cl-alc part of cl-openal and chosen attempt resync, i got similar errors with lb-sdl before and compiling with these option on errors worked, it kept compiling this time too, but when i tried glaw examples, i got "the value nil is not type glaw::resource-holder" error 17:42:23 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-156-124.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:42:50 ... Sounds like someone put non-ascii characters in their source files, and didn't do anything to ensure that they were compiled with the correct external-format. 17:42:59 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:43:31 -!- eihrul [~eihrul@ip72-193-224-224.lv.lv.cox.net] has left #lisp 17:44:20 i don't know maybe the errors on compile time of cl-alc arent related to the one i got while running glaw examples 17:44:47 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 17:45:59 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:46:00 when i run an example, first i see the window created, but it is frozen, and there i see the "nil is not type glaw::resource-holder" error 17:46:11 Also a possibility... Even a probability, unless the identifiers aren't in english? 17:51:35 also there is another problem, some of the examples which needs data files like png's and fonts which are in a folder called "data" in glaw source directory, looks for them in a different place than the source directory is, it looks for them in " 17:51:57 "~/data/" directory 17:52:42 maybe the library isn't finished yet, so i should wait for some time to use it 17:54:17 -!- guidj0s [~juju@97-81-251-38.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:54:43 eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 17:57:20 -!- konr [~user@201.82.132.104] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:57:50 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 17:58:06 loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 17:58:53 -!- Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 18:02:25 kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-218-220.ip56.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 18:03:23 dnm__ [~dnm@static-71-166-174-24.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:03:47 mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has joined #lisp 18:03:47 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has quit [Changing host] 18:03:47 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 18:03:50 davazp [~user@201.Red-88-6-206.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:03:54 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:05:44 dnm1 [~dnm@static-71-166-174-24.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:06:07 -!- dnm1 is now known as dnm 18:06:58 drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 18:07:47 off-topic: can someone tell me a countable noun for "food"? :) 18:08:29 drdo: ration 18:08:36 comestables 18:08:54 dlowe: not exactly what i mean :S 18:09:06 provision 18:09:22 in portuguese there's a word for a generic piece of food that's countable 18:09:32 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 18:09:38 -!- dnm__ [~dnm@static-71-166-174-24.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:10:17 -!- powerje [~powerje@dhcp-128-146-114-173.osuwireless.ohio-state.edu] has quit [Quit: powerje] 18:10:23 and it implies that it's an atomic piece and not something like a meal 18:10:59 ... There's an obvious countable noun /phrase/ for a piece of food. 18:11:11 :D 18:11:24 drdo: it's possible you've found something that doesn't translate 1:1 18:12:53 -!- dys [~andreas@krlh-5f7218aa.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:13:19 symbole [~user@216.214.176.130] has joined #lisp 18:13:26 dys [~andreas@krlh-5f7252f1.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:13:44 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 18:15:37 drdo: in english, we call that 'kibble' 18:15:53 ... we do? 18:15:54 3 kibbles? 18:15:57 we call it a course, maybe? 18:16:00 usually in reference to the pellet food we feed cats and dogs. 18:16:03 3 courses, 3 sides 18:16:18 dlowe: Courses are phases of a meal, so probably not. 18:16:21 i'm clearly thinking about different granularity. 18:16:21 drdo: morsel 18:16:38 Morsel might not be entirely wrong, yeah. 18:16:39 nah that's not it 18:17:04 You're looking for something more... whole unto itself, like apples or oranges? 18:17:11 you use it like that yes 18:17:20 a banana, an orange 18:17:24 but it's generic 18:17:31 serving 18:17:45 But not so... MRE-ish as "rations"? 18:17:47 a serving can mix different types of food 18:17:53 foodstuff is the closest I can think of... but I don't know if that's proper english or even countable 18:18:03 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:18:21 if you had to implement some objects to represent food 18:18:35 how would you call the superclass of all the different types of food? 18:18:52 you'd probably represent then as a 'container' specialised by 'bar' and 'plate' and 'bowl' 18:19:06 edibles ? 18:19:24 'a bowl of oranges' 18:19:25 That stuff about people being constrained by the languages they know 18:19:27 is so true 18:19:29 :) 18:19:30 'a bar of chocolate' 18:20:09 chocolate is countable in portuguese 18:20:44 all chocolate comes in the same unit? 18:20:52 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 18:20:57 not really 18:21:12 how can a language have a word for countable piece representing "any food", its strange 18:21:15 it's just context dependant like a lot of stuff in natural languages 18:21:45 kenanb: i'm pretty sure most languages have it 18:22:40 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-120-132.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 18:22:51 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-120-132.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:23:06 manby-ace_ [~manby-ace@88-96-24-53.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:23:10 hmm 18:23:17 Ingredient sounds appropriate 18:23:19 drdo: in turkish we have it for some foods but not in a formal sense, in fact we usually don't even use apples or oranges as countables 18:23:37 ok now that's weird 18:23:59 drdo: yes, i guess so :) 18:24:10 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 18:24:19 apples and oranges are very well discretized 18:24:31 i don't see how any confusion can come from there 18:24:47 we just count them if we throw with them 18:24:48 lol 18:25:14 in translating something like "eating some apples" to turkish, the only thing that gives the plural meaning is the translation of "some" and "apple" part stays singular 18:26:00 i'm finding it hard to wrap my head around that 18:26:13 what does that mean when translanted then? 18:26:25 does it imply you ate more than one apple? 18:26:40 jep bir is one, kac is adding the meaning how many, and tane means pieces 18:27:15 one can throw out the bir part 18:27:41 did someone changed my channel while i was away? 18:27:43 depending on context 18:27:49 lol 18:27:58 stassats: this is now #linguistics 18:28:00 :) 18:28:09 "i ate an apple" = "bir elma yedim" "i ate five apples, i don't know why" = "be elma yedim, nedendir bilinmez" 18:28:27 where is the 5 in there? 18:28:27 ok, i'll go talk about lisp in #linguistics 18:28:39 be = five 18:28:54 stassats: it's my fault, i asked for an off-topic question and it kinda of just took off 18:29:04 s/for// 18:30:07 and japanese seems to have it too accumulating meaning on adding parts to already existing bricks of language 18:30:40 homie: why isn't it just "bes elma yedim" ? 18:30:45 what's the other stuff? 18:30:49 yeah, i guess its time to close it, but i guess everyone likes the feeling of guilt inside when going offtopic :) 18:31:28 drdo: the second part was supposed to be a joke, sorry :) 18:31:51 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 18:31:52 i asked the wrong guy too 18:31:54 :P 18:31:57 revolve [~3@cpc4-bagu10-2-0-cust705.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 18:32:31 hun [~hun@95-89-69-55-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 18:34:30 PCChris [~PCChris@wireless-165-124-199-182.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has joined #lisp 18:36:29 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.105.11] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:39:43 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:40:36 mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has joined #lisp 18:40:36 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has quit [Changing host] 18:40:36 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 18:44:56 Bronsa [~bronsa@host192-119-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:45:20 Sebastian_Sturm [~Adium@wlan0814.rz.uni-leipzig.de] has joined #lisp 18:46:13 -!- gump [~gauthamg@188.74.82.177] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 18:47:43 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:51:22 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:51:46 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@189.66.236.144] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:51:55 -!- iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@119.192.12.119] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:51:56 antivigilante [~antivigil@174-26-84-31.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:05 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@189.66.236.144] has joined #lisp 19:02:02 -!- Sebastian_Sturm [~Adium@wlan0814.rz.uni-leipzig.de] has left #lisp 19:04:36 -!- PCChris [~PCChris@wireless-165-124-199-182.nuwlan.northwestern.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:05:25 is it possible to have an index variable in a cl loop when iterating over a list using "loop for var in list" ? 19:06:15 (loop for index from 0 for var in list) 19:06:37 homie: Did you get my memo about cl-fftw3? 19:06:53 stassats: ahh, thanks a lot. I didn't know it was possible to just use from x 19:08:10 (loop for index by 1) is shorter, but i don't like it 19:10:49 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host192-119-dynamic.52-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:11:24 rtoym: yep i got it 19:11:30 -!- hun [~hun@95-89-69-55-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:11:33 -!- kclifton [~kclifton@s198-166-45-245.ab.hsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: kclifton] 19:11:48 Does it work for you now? 19:11:55 rtoym: haven't got to the problem as of now 19:12:09 Ok. 19:12:13 i mean i didn't look further 19:12:15 but i will 19:13:46 -!- Fade [fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:14:21 That's ok. It works for me with that change. If it doesn't, let me know. 19:22:22 gonzojive [~red@64.134.230.199] has joined #lisp 19:22:58 Fade [fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has joined #lisp 19:23:23 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:27:35 Is it possible to make a new array which shares information with an array that exists already? Example, X := (vector 1 2 3 4 5), Y = X[2 to 4], and any change in X will create a corresponding change in Y 19:27:59 displaced arrays 19:29:01 just :displaced-to and :displaced-index-offset then? 19:29:09 yes 19:29:21 Okay, thanks for clarifying 19:30:00 but keep in mind that they're slow 19:30:26 who runs cl.net now? 19:31:01 displaced-index-offset is SETF'able, isn't it? 19:31:02 Does anybody know of a blog entry or summary of ILC 2010? 19:31:25 starseeker: I think I've seen some stuff on Planet Lisp. 19:31:39 LiamH: why ? 19:31:49 symbole: most recent entry there is the 19th 19:31:52 atomx [~user@92.81.118.66] has joined #lisp 19:32:09 -!- davazp [~user@201.Red-88-6-206.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:32:35 *starseeker* was very curious about Peter Seibel's talk on standardization, but can't find any notes about it anywhere 19:32:36 fe[nl]ix: There is a user on the gsll-devel mailing list who is unable to post to the list; his emails simply vanish. I'd like to figure out why and fix it so that I don't have to keep forwarding the emails to the list. 19:32:40 nyef: with adjust-array? 19:32:55 -!- pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has quit [] 19:33:19 LiamH: address ? 19:33:20 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 19:33:42 fe[nl]ix: ? 19:33:52 his address? 19:33:56 yes 19:34:21 Sebastian.Sturm -at- itp.uni-leipzig.de 19:34:24 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 19:34:33 starseeker: Hopefully, they'll come out with the proceedings soon. 19:36:06 p_l|home [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:36:23 *starseeker* was checking ACM - interesting, a literate programming paper 19:37:10 ... Alex Plotnick (sp?), or someone else? 19:37:30 Huh - only knows about CLWEB - no mention of axweb of asdf-literate 19:37:56 Roy Turner http://doi.acm.org/10.1145/1869643.1869647 19:38:55 Hrm... I was actually considering giving CLWEB another spin. 19:38:57 if i'm not using literate programming, does that mean i'm doing illiterate programming? 19:39:16 And what about alliterative programming? 19:39:43 growl... yeah, looks like ACM only has the technical presentations currently 19:40:10 nyef: pair programming? 19:40:19 *starseeker* should try porting asdf-literate to ASDF2 - wonder how that'll work out, from what I hear the changes were significant 19:40:23 LiamH: it's not spamassassin 19:40:25 dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 19:40:42 nyef: like (list list)? 19:41:21 fe[nl]ix: OK. Messages aren't being held for moderation, and he's sending from the email that he registered with. Where could they be vanishing? 19:41:28 mailman 19:42:05 Does mailman have a way of spiking messages other than holding for moderation? 19:42:18 yes, it can delete them without notice 19:42:28 interesting looking paper on NST 19:42:42 fe[nl]ix: No log? no notification? no reason? 19:45:31 -!- gonzojive [~red@64.134.230.199] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 19:47:19 ... Man, the asdf-literate.pdf file has some truly obvious TeX-newbie mistakes in it. 19:47:45 nyef: not surprising, I was pretty new to the whole thing at the time 19:48:08 Kerrick [~Kerrick@b01-1.nat.iastate.edu] has joined #lisp 19:48:34 starseeker: Have a look for instances of a bare \LaTeX or whatever the macro is, followed by an english word. The corresponding output will be missing the space between the words. 19:49:29 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:49:29 nyef: ah, yes 19:49:34 I see it 19:49:34 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:49:45 I'm a touch underwhelmed by the code formatting, too. 19:50:03 (Probably spoiled by the almost-excellent job done in CLWEB.) 19:51:03 nyef: axweb is probably in better shape - Stephen put a lot of work into it. asdf-literate was me stumbling around learning both Lisp and LaTeX (plus asdf) 19:51:54 nyef: it did function though, at least some years ago 19:54:11 at the time, there wasn't much interest in literate programming techniques in the Lisp world - kinda surprised to see the recent surge in activity 19:55:31 Mmm... I'm liking some of what I've done in LP, and not-liking some of what I've done in LP. 19:55:46 One of the problems being inadequate tool support, really. 19:56:14 *starseeker* nods - even Emacs modes have their limitations when it comes to literate programming 19:57:52 maybe I should try working on it again - I always wondered what could be done with Climacs in that regard, but it's not immediately clear to me if Climacs is still being developed (even McCLIM seems rather quiet) 20:01:27 nyef: out of curiosity, is there a documented style for Lisp code formatting that you prefer? 20:01:51 Have a look at what CLWEB does. 20:02:25 (That said, I don't know how well CLWEB will handle some of the things I have in mind to try...) 20:03:15 So I want to create a hash table with clos objects as keys. Unfortunately they are never "equal". Is it even possible to use them as hash keys? 20:03:38 What do you mean "never equal"? 20:03:42 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-60-2.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:04:14 well, (equal (make-instance 'cl-stl::vector-3) (make-instance 'cl-stl::vector-3)) => nil 20:04:15 (Actually, instance EQUALity invariably devolves to EQity.) 20:04:31 Right... 20:04:48 nyef: what about Stephen Wilson's axweb? http://www.start.ca/users/wilsons/axweb.lisp 20:04:58 Oh, and you're wanting to hash on the vector contents? 20:05:05 http://www.start.ca/users/wilsons/axweb.pdf for the formatted version 20:05:08 nyef: yeah 20:05:30 starseeker: Looking at that now, but... the code formatting isn't impressing me, TBH. 20:05:47 k 20:05:48 Yeah, not doing the right thing with strings, for starters. 20:05:59 nyef: do I need to write a function that hashes the vector content and then use this value as key? 20:06:18 (are you referring to how the pdf output is formatting the Lisp code, or the .lisp file itself?) 20:06:18 sepi: Might not be enough, as surely then you'd get collisions? 20:06:25 The pdf output. 20:06:34 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:06:49 ah, k. 20:07:19 nyef: I could create a collision free hash, but that would not be a real hash then :) 20:07:21 is there a pdf of clweb online, or does one need to generate it from the .tex file? 20:07:30 (don't have TeX right now) 20:07:43 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.153.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:07:56 http://pages.cs.brandeis.edu/~plotnick/clweb/clweb.pdf 20:08:03 ah, thanks :-) 20:09:36 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.162.125] has joined #lisp 20:10:13 There is-or-was a bug with its handling of things like M-V-B, where you indent 6 spaces, then 4, then the rest of the body 2, and it indents the first two lines the same amount. 20:10:55 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.55.228] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:11:22 But, well, the code formatting is rather better than just fixed-width font output. 20:11:22 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 20:12:15 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 20:12:32 aerique [~euqirea@aerique.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 20:13:35 nyef: fair enough. looking back, we just punted and went with a verbatim environment (more focused on the technical backend of the system than the final output) 20:13:54 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:14:08 nyef: I know this code sucks, but it uses the listings package to format the code - does that look any better? http://bzflag.bz/~starseeker/cl-web-v0.8.lisp.pdf 20:15:49 Urgh. The listings package doesn't seem to do the right thing /at all/. 20:16:07 I tried it out myself a while back when I was trying to use org-babel for LP. 20:16:09 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:16:35 hrm. I'll have to see how CLWEB approaches it 20:17:27 It does Wrong Things with readtables and echo streams and such in order to find the starting columns of forms /as seen by the lisp reader/. 20:17:32 humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 20:18:17 nyef: hmm - what would be the Right Way? 20:19:01 I'm not saying it's not the Right Way, just that the things it does are rather... out there. 20:19:10 ah 20:19:46 does anyone else have a way to use clos objects as hash keys? 20:19:50 so the net result then is to format the code in a way that actually reflects how the lisp reader itself sees the code? 20:20:40 Yes. 20:20:53 While still attempting to respect the programmer's indentation. 20:21:29 that's... kinda wild. Might be a bit unexpected too 20:22:14 -!- antivigilante [~antivigil@174-26-84-31.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:22:38 nyef: are there any editors out there that try to auto-indent according to those rules? 20:22:57 wuj [~wuj@pool-74-108-204-117.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:33 *starseeker* had thought the expectation for the pdf output would be for the code to look the way it did in the editor, possibly with syntax highlighting applied 20:24:14 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 20:24:32 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.79.96.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:24:58 the idea of being "reader-aware" appeals though 20:25:35 one of those subtle things that ties a programmers intiutive feel for Lisp to the actual code formatting - sweet 20:28:06 It clearly took a lot of work and trickery to make happen, though. 20:28:46 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 20:30:05 hmm - what's the license on CLWEB? 20:33:24 nyef: was formatting your main concern in the tool support department, or were there others? 20:33:44 zomgbie_ [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 20:38:05 sepi: you can use anything as a hash key. 20:39:05 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: mstevens] 20:40:15 pkhuong_: yeah, but I want the values of my vectors to be the key, not some instance id 20:41:32 starseeker: emacs mode support as well, though I'm planning to investigate the use of mmm-mode. 20:44:13 -!- loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:45:23 minion: genhash 20:45:23 genhash: NET.HEXAPODIA.HASHTABLES This is a Library for generic hash tables. http://www.cliki.net/genhash 20:45:37 Or you can use various implementation-dependent extensions. 20:49:10 frito [~user@cpc2-sotn4-0-0-cust13.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:54:51 mIRCTRUser-2635 [~mIRCTR@78.185.236.129] has joined #lisp 20:55:23 -!- Edward__ [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-4-13.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 20:55:27 konr [~user@201.82.132.104] has joined #lisp 20:57:11 -!- mIRCTRUser-2635 is now known as Turkish 20:57:34 -!- Turkish is now known as Turkishfinancer 20:58:49 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 20:58:59 Guthur [~Guthur@host86-141-209-190.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:59:14 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-11-101.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:02:24 pkhuong_: genhash is exactly what I need, thanks a lot. I wonder why the cl hash can't do this by default 21:04:07 wvdschel [~wim@78-20-14-180.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 21:04:12 -!- wvdschel [~wim@78-20-14-180.access.telenet.be] has quit [Changing host] 21:04:12 wvdschel [~wim@unaffiliated/yukito] has joined #lisp 21:04:47 -!- frito [~user@cpc2-sotn4-0-0-cust13.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:04:49 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-25-78.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:05:48 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-218-220.ip56.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:05:49 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 21:05:49 tama [~tama@pool-71-164-234-131.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:47 s0ber_ [~s0ber@111-240-218-60.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:10:17 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:10:57 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-10-221.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:11:43 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-211-168.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:12:01 MoALTz [~no@92.8.222.254] has joined #lisp 21:13:10 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 21:13:13 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:13:17 -!- Turkishfinancer [~mIRCTR@78.185.236.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:14:08 lispm [5ce02d95@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.224.45.149] has joined #lisp 21:15:59 gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:17:10 jeti [~jeti@p54B467F7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:17:11 -!- naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:23:08 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 21:26:07 -!- lispm [5ce02d95@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.224.45.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:29:05 -!- pierrep [~ppasteau@bas1-montreal43-2925256056.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:32:52 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:33:15 -!- manby-ace_ [~manby-ace@88-96-24-53.dsl.zen.co.uk] has left #lisp 21:33:35 manby-ace_ [~manby-ace@88-96-24-53.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:33:54 -!- vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-esftndviulmrbmjz] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 21:37:19 -!- karbak [~akr@kar.vps.bitfolk.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:38:44 -!- Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@2001:ba8:1f1:f0ed:216:5eff:fe00:16b] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:40:02 starseeker: So, how well does axweb handle arbitrary TeX markup in lisp code? 21:40:41 'cause while I'm not sure it works in clweb, it /does/ work in comments in clweb, and a #\$ reader-macro is not unprecedented... 21:41:25 And that leads to being able to write http://common-lisp.net/~abridgewater/lisp-tex-test-2.png 21:42:01 minion: memo for Sikander: It seems some of the FFT slugishness might be in the grid:gref function, particularly linearization of the index. See the emails on the mailing list from Sebastian Sturm; he is not doing FFT but noticed slowness in the vector root solver. 21:42:02 Remembered. I'll tell Sikander when he/she/it next speaks. 21:42:32 LiamH: General array slicing? 21:43:12 nyef: Yes, http://repo.or.cz/w/gsd.git 21:44:07 I have some ideas why; there's some gratuitous consing going on. 21:45:07 Mmm. 21:45:11 vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-eqrjdjngpbyddfpc] has joined #lisp 21:45:23 Some time back I thought about how to extend SBCL's arrays to allow arbitrary slicing. 21:46:05 interesting; I will ask for more details sometime later (about to go home now) 21:46:23 karbak [~akr@kar.vps.bitfolk.com] has joined #lisp 21:46:25 It effectively doubled the per-dimension storage overhead of arrays, but meant storing the per-dimension stride along with the size. 21:46:39 Enjoy your commute, then. 21:46:53 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-60-2.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo] 21:46:58 Thanks. It's on a bike, so I will. 21:47:11 Yeah, my favorite commute was an hour each way... on foot. 21:48:22 The core of the grid routines uses Tamas Papp's AFFI ideas; it sounds like your idea incorporates (some of?) that directly into SBCL. 21:48:44 Perhaps. 21:48:56 -!- az [~az@p4FE4F66A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:50:06 LiamH: a bicycle or a motorcycle ? 21:50:21 fe[nl]ix: the motor is in my legs 21:50:58 Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@2001:ba8:1f1:f0ed:216:5eff:fe00:16b] has joined #lisp 21:51:17 naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has joined #lisp 21:51:54 -!- aerique [~euqirea@aerique.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 21:52:10 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:53:43 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:54:42 d43u5rwe [~bryce@174-148-246-227.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 21:57:33 gump [~gauthamg@188.74.82.177] has joined #lisp 21:59:04 -!- gump [~gauthamg@188.74.82.177] has quit [Client Quit] 21:59:04 powerje [~powerje@adsl-75-60-217-33.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:00:47 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93-87-167-162.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:01:00 az [~az@p5796C5C9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:02:13 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:03:56 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.55.228] has joined #lisp 22:10:00 Wtf of the day: https://bugs.launchpad.net/slime/+bug/665369 22:10:06 Heh. 22:11:26 Who are they, and /how did they get access to change the status from New to Incomplete/? 22:11:58 <_3b> i guess that would be the downside of using someone else's bug tracker 22:13:57 not enough information!? 22:15:11 tcr: lol 22:17:17 nyef: good question - I'd have to test it. 22:17:41 I rather doubt it reads the comments in lisp source and looks for TeX formatting 22:18:08 *nyef* would consider filing a launchpad security bug -- "random-looking people able to change bug status for SLIME"... 22:18:30 nyef: lol, send him to abuse@launchpad.net ? :D 22:19:04 nyef: O.o that's rather impressive 22:19:40 nyef: filed already, or do I have to? :D 22:19:51 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.55.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:20:20 <_3b> random-looking person is part of a group that triages ubuntu bugs, dunno if that gives extra powers or not though 22:20:29 That one would be inaccurate as we don't have any indication that they're random-looking 22:21:02 -!- d43u5rwe [~bryce@174-148-246-227.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:21:03 oh random-looking like that 22:21:38 well, he is also part of Launchpad Engineering 22:22:22 refresh, he responded 22:22:31 unfortunately I cannot make any sense of gibberish 22:23:12 ... me neither 22:26:31 I don't think he is native english speaker 22:27:04 <_3b> guessing not from the non-english blog :p 22:27:08 he is an italian Oracle DBA :P 22:27:18 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-64-57.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:27:18 replied again. It surely made my day 22:27:53 The wonderful world of lisp. Drama, politics, intrigues... 22:28:26 <_3b> ... the non-english blog with the annoying full-screen popup ad when you click anywhere on it 22:28:39 *schmrkc* hasn't seen the blog. 22:29:16 schmrkc: lol 22:29:47 schmrkc: ... surprisingly fitting, now that I think of it 22:29:52 Libet [~Libet@83.33.151.140] has joined #lisp 22:30:29 implementing lambda on top of fexprs is a little exciting. 22:31:44 Hi. 22:31:55 Hello, Libet 22:32:52 sykopomp: I got in just in the middle of the conversation but you might find the Kernel language also interesting. 22:33:02 schmrkc: Hello. :) 22:33:13 Libet: that's exactly what I'm playing with. ;) 22:33:27 Heh. :) 22:34:08 I'm playing with an interpreter for a kernel-like toy language. 22:34:18 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@host86-141-209-190.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:34:42 -!- dnm [~dnm@static-71-166-174-24.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [] 22:34:58 -!- wvdschel [~wim@unaffiliated/yukito] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:36:09 Does it implement $vau, $lambda, wrap and all the Kernel forms? 22:37:01 right now, it implements vau, define, wrap, unwrap, set!, eval, list, list*, car, cdr, and + as 'primitives' 22:37:13 which is more than enough to actually define lambda. 22:37:48 I'm not sure how -sound- my implementation is, but it seems to mostly work so far. 22:38:51 tcr: I believe we can assume that the overeager Ubuntu developer got corrected by someone elder 22:39:17 Libet: (my-eval '(def! lambda (vau env args (wrap (eval (list* vau 'ignore args) env)))) *initial-env*) 22:40:01 I think i have to revise the report my Kernel-fu is a bit weak. 22:40:15 timack [~tim@hlfx62-2a-213.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 22:40:23 But i remember it as very interesting and orthogonal. 22:40:30 Libet: the point is, you don't need to define lambda as a primitive. 22:40:52 -!- eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has quit [Quit: eugu] 22:41:10 does anyone has any examples of code that use the four argument CONS ? 22:41:30 Libet: all-in-all, this is pretty exciting stuff. 22:41:44 If i recall correctly, you could also define vau, wrap, unwrap and all "primitive forms" in terms of the other ones. 22:42:24 You can define $vau in terms of the more primitive version of $vau 22:42:39 -!- wuj [~wuj@pool-74-108-204-117.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:45:11 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:45:22 nowl [~nowl@c-71-233-2-216.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:46:37 sykopomp: Yes, it's pretty nice. Experiments in language design, specially when involving radical changes are always fun. :) 22:47:19 -!- jeti [~jeti@p54B467F7.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 22:47:22 -!- manby-ace_ [~manby-ace@88-96-24-53.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: manby-ace_] 22:47:47 Libet: I like having my cake and eating it, too. 22:48:50 Having the hygiene of Scheme macros while treating sexps as lists _and_ having 'macros' as first-class objects? I'm sold! 22:49:29 There will be quite a performance hit though. 22:49:53 smart enough compiler, etc. 22:50:47 I also found it was hard to respect tail recursion too when implementing Fexprs. (but on the context of an interpreter) 22:51:07 Libet: at least in cases where you use vau like regular macros (with literal code), it can be reduced. 22:51:08 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour2-0-0-cust414.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:51:26 whether this is an overly optimistic assumption is yet to be seen. 22:51:31 d-c [~DC@118.229.96.40] has joined #lisp 22:52:54 While we are at it, some discussion on another design decision: http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/3861 22:53:01 pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has joined #lisp 22:53:33 Now that we have Fexprs... let's not get cheap on first-class objects? :) 22:53:45 Libet: I believe it's Shutt's thesis that describes how they can be pretty much compiled to regular old stack frames in most cases. 22:59:43 You mean the first-class environments? 22:59:49 yes 23:00:10 It just depends on the usage. 23:00:18 right 23:00:39 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483AF03.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:00:44 Things can get very tricky though. 23:01:29 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@189.66.236.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:01:32 Wether you allow to create/reify environments, change their parents at runtime, delete bindings, that kind of stuff. 23:01:42 right 23:01:56 antivigilante [~antivigil@wsip-70-166-115-251.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:01:59 I'm currently re-reading the kernel docs on what Shutt thought he should provide, and why. 23:02:06 most of it seems pretty reasonable. 23:02:21 Some of it, I'm not even sure I care about, such as 'multiple-inheritance' for environments when creating them. 23:02:28 For what is worth, i got good results just by specializing environments with few variables in special data structures. 23:03:07 Env1, Env2, Env3... (single struct), Env5 to Env9 (linked list), Env10... (hash table) 23:03:43 (when it was impossible to determine bindings positions at compile time) 23:04:06 It's pretty much the same approach JRuby does in some scenarios with dynamic scopes. 23:05:42 Multiple inheritance... should be doable but: what's the order? how to search? 23:05:44 tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 23:07:54 jeti [~user@p54B467F7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:08:42 in this example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel_(programming_language) 23:08:44 it seems to me that to pass $and? to map it would be something like (map (wrap $and?) ...), am i right? 23:09:32 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@189.66.126.223] has joined #lisp 23:09:47 pmd: Yep, if i remember correctly that was it. 23:10:56 Libet: so what's the advantage over implementing `wrap' as a macro? or, generically, what's de advantage of an fexpr over a macro? 23:11:03 s/de/the 23:11:20 LiamH [~liam@pool-141-156-214-211.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:11:52 pmd: i don't think there is an actual useful advantage. 23:12:04 It's an interesting approach though. 23:12:51 (defmacro wrap (macro) `#'(lambda (&rest args) (,macro ,@args))) -- excluding bugs 23:12:56 Whether macros as first class objects have use-cases... i just don't know. 23:14:30 pmd: the tricky part is unwrap. 23:14:45 pmd: also, wrap isn't a macro. It's a regular function. 23:16:04 dnm [~dnm@c-68-34-57-169.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:16:13 interesting 23:17:59 sykopomp: on the multiple inheritance thing... 23:18:24 consider something like: (make-environment example (with-parents a b c)) 23:18:42 When we search for a binding in example, should we: 23:19:07 a) Look in 'a', then from 'a' to the global scope, then 'b'... 23:19:30 b) Look in 'a', 'b', 'c', then in 'a' parent, 'b' parent... until each one reaches the global scope 23:20:36 I took the first route but i don't know what should be considered better. 23:20:49 -!- dborba [~dborba@74.105.202.55] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 23:20:50 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-71-74.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:20:58 pmd: that assumes that all the arguments to the macro are evaluated. 23:21:21 dborba [~dborba@pool-74-105-202-55.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:21:44 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-25-50.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:21:47 pkhuong_: isn't that what wrap does? take a list of already evaluated arguments to a fexpr? 23:24:32 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:24:47 pmd: well, among the advantages are hygene. 23:24:53 Why would I put #' in front of a lambda if it works without? 23:25:13 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 23:25:15 Ralith: true, but you can have that with `only-once' and alikes 23:25:34 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 23:25:49 pmd: that's not really hygene, just a workaround. 23:25:58 sepi: for no good reason but old habit of detecting anonymous functions by spotting #' while reading code diagonally 23:26:30 pmd: ok 23:26:37 diagonally? 23:26:47 Ralith: what part of using gensyms isn't hygenic? 23:27:24 pmd: the fact that you're still working in the same lexical environment, even if the impl does guarantee that there won't be conflicts. 23:27:41 pmd: not to mention, once-only is simply much less convenient. 23:27:44 -!- _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:28:24 -!- jeti [~user@p54B467F7.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 23:28:32 Ralith: true. so when you're talking about lexical environment, you're talking about, for instance, using mapcar which may be defined as an flet/labels in that env, right? 23:28:57 pmd: that's a good example, yeah 23:30:40 so an fexpr is more like some operation that lazily evaluates its arguments 23:31:09 pmd: or reifies them as sexprs. 23:31:28 phrixos [~user@gnu/webmaster/phrixos] has joined #lisp 23:31:29 i've compared to macros because i was mostly thinking in wrapping the arguments in promises, then using symbol-macrolet 23:32:19 -!- phrixos [~user@gnu/webmaster/phrixos] has quit [Client Quit] 23:32:40 pkhuong_: that and the fact that wrap and unwrap are functions are hard for me to swallow as something that is both useful and fast 23:33:24 pmd: same for languages based on the lambda calculus once upon a time. 23:33:32 pkhuong_: does that imply some form of eval or compile-then-apply? 23:34:09 Shutt's thesis is that it's possibly to implement the semantics efficiently, or at least in a pay-as-you-go manner. 23:37:18 Libet: kernel specifies a depth-first search. 23:38:18 pkhuong_: the thing is computers aren't any getting faster, they're doing more parallel work. however, i'm starting to believe that fexprs are no less expensive than closures and promises, or am i missing something? 23:39:08 sykopomp: good, i'll take a look at the rationale in the pdf. :) 23:39:14 Libet: because it's simple. 23:39:25 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu022.queens.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:39:39 Fair enough. 23:39:49 Libet: My personal opinion is that you may as well use C3 at that point. His environments remind me a lot of delegative prototype object systems (but that's probably because it's me) 23:40:23 Delegative prototype object systems... mmmm 23:40:43 i did in fact implement the first class environments to later have OO on top of them 23:40:48 pmd: if they're exactly as expensive as closures when you use them as such, and let you express the same ideas more simply, what's the problem? 23:40:50 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:41:03 but i never knew that actually had a name and was done 23:41:26 pkhuong_: well, ignoring partial evaluation -- being stuck having to include your entire compiler (or being forced to compile at runtime), may not be your preference. 23:41:27 Any paper recommendations/implementations on those prototype systems? 23:41:37 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:41:39 Libet: The Slate papers are interesting. 23:41:48 there's also all the Self stuff about making them fast. 23:42:02 Thanks. :) 23:42:05 Libet: you can also look at Sheeple, if you want to play with them in CL :) 23:42:10 pkhuong_: that was what i was thinking about, and i conclude that the problem could be that promises, or the reified sexprs, become the next best thing after indirection 23:42:20 Libet: Sheeple is like CLOS + Io. 23:42:32 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-187-24.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:42:33 sykopomp: But sheeple is just prototype-based OO, no first-class envs involved right? 23:43:09 Libet: I was comparing delegative prototype-based OO to the way environments work. 23:43:26 Oh, i think i misunderstood you. 23:43:31 (property-value my-object 'property-name) vs (eval 'property-name 'my-env) 23:43:43 I was talking about implementing OO right on top of the first-class environments 23:43:49 and use the environments as objects. 23:44:10 I guess you could do that. 23:44:18 but you can do that on top of plain old lambda, too. 23:44:25 Clone them, bindings are properties or methods (closures with dynamic/lexical scope). 23:44:43 you can also implement a prototype object system on top of CL's packages (as drewc demonstrated) 23:45:44 -!- ustreamer-369 [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 23:46:10 I should be heading home now, though. :) 23:46:11 There is at least an "advantage" of doing it with environments. (or a disadvantage) 23:46:25 Either you optimize them or the whole language is a turtle. 23:46:36 (no pun against Logo) 23:46:51 Libet: seems more like you'd just end up with very little flexibility as to what you can do with your shiny new object system. 23:46:56 Thanks for the recommendations on papers. :) 23:47:17 sykopomp: why? 23:47:18 The Self papers are the big winners here. Slate papers are interesting because they describe how to implement multiple-dispatch with prototypes. 23:47:55 Libet: I'm talking about more advanced features of an object system like inspection, reflection, mops, etc. 23:47:55 Is there something important you can't do with them? 23:48:22 Inspection and reflection would be fine given that they are first class objects too. 23:48:28 and possible prototype-specific optimisations 23:48:40 Libet: first-class objects doesn't necessarily mean that everything -inside- them is first-class. 23:48:56 anyway, I'm off for a bit. 23:49:10 Good night then and thanks again. :) 23:54:25 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:55:10 does an fexpr always evaluate an argument in its original environment? 23:55:47 it = the argument