00:00:02 tij [~tim@li101-203.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 00:01:08 stassats: that's because DNF is "Fornever" 00:01:21 they have no chance of succeeding 00:01:29 "Forever" works too 00:01:30 literally 00:01:33 wakeupsticky [47d02dae@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.208.45.174] has joined #lisp 00:02:01 forever in development 00:02:09 Any good open-source programs for self-teaching (i.e., to read through)? 00:02:12 no matter what they do, it will fall short of expectations, unless the game is so groundbreaking and impossibly good that it will be impossible to copy 00:03:03 (as in, copy by another contemporary game) 00:03:34 wakeupsticky: I really found cl-ppcre interesting and informative. 00:04:04 I don't speak Perl 00:04:08 ;) 00:04:34 wakeupsticky: Do you want to learn CL? cl-ppcre is a good thing to read. 00:05:16 don't need to know perl? 00:05:34 It's not a Perl program, it's a Lisp program. 00:05:48 It uses many different features of Common Lisp. 00:05:55 It does an interesting task. 00:06:00 It's very fast and complete. 00:06:07 That's why I like it. 00:06:39 i'll give it a look, thanks :) 00:07:38 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 00:08:42 the other thing is, is there a source of libraries' documentation in one place, or is it scattered about? 00:09:09 wakeupsticky: Scattered about. 00:09:35 How about a list of libraries with links to their documentation? 00:10:17 cl-user.net did something like that, and cliki.net too. 00:12:42 just frustrating because i love the language itself but it seems very difficult to do anything productive in it 00:13:53 It gets less difficult with practice. 00:14:08 It's easier to practice if you enjoy it. 00:14:33 I guess I'm just impatient. 00:15:59 -!- chris_bryant [~chrisbrya@cpe-75-84-188-152.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:16:18 somehipbody [~somebody@99.165.6.217] has joined #lisp 00:16:36 not a good quality if you want to do something productive 00:20:21 phrixos` 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wakeupsticky [47d02dae@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.208.45.174] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:33:20 -!- ska`` [~user@ppp-115-87-234-46.revip4.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:35:33 -!- manby-ace [~manby-ace@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: manby-ace] 00:36:47 -!- phrixos` [~user@bs0176.nerc-bas.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:38:45 oh wow, Closure HTML didn't choke on my crazy 404 page 00:39:27 though it parsed it incorrectly 00:40:44 (it added XHTML namespace and body tag that doesn't exist) 00:40:53 phrixos` [~user@bs0176.nerc-bas.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 00:41:31 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.183.248] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:43:15 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.147.224] has joined #lisp 00:46:52 abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:48:57 -!- phrixos` [~user@bs0176.nerc-bas.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:50:21 phrixos` 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[~user@p548A71B3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:00:53 phrixos` [~user@bs0176.nerc-bas.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 01:04:18 -!- super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:04:49 -!- Protected [~Join@myshelter.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:04:56 _3b`` [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:08:41 rich_holygoat_ [~rnewman@rrcs-64-183-136-38.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:08:41 -!- rich_holygoat_ [~rnewman@rrcs-64-183-136-38.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 01:08:41 rich_holygoat_ [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has joined #lisp 01:08:53 iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@61.43.139.4] has joined #lisp 01:11:03 -!- phrixos` [~user@bs0176.nerc-bas.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:12:38 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:12:38 -!- rich_holygoat_ is now known as rich_holygoat 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gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-39-7-127.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:36:15 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-58-28-211.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:38:14 super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 01:41:16 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:41:23 rabite [~project@dslb-084-063-018-132.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 01:43:44 -!- new-lisper [~daniel@c95334ae.virtua.com.br] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:44:18 -!- rabite_ [~project@dslb-084-063-042-179.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:47:39 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:48:59 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-178-106.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 01:49:52 i am having trouble interpreting these profiling values: http://paste.lisp.org/+2H7S 01:49:59 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@189.66.83.241] has joined #lisp 01:50:13 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 01:50:25 what do the self, cumul, and total mean? 01:50:38 from slime-sprof 01:51:20 (btw, i had to trim the paste - it was too large) 01:52:41 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-46-76.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 01:53:19 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-46-76.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 01:54:13 stassats: can you tell me? 01:55:54 -!- sdsds is now known as BinarySlut 01:55:58 time spend by the function, time spend inside the function 01:56:01 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:57:09 -!- BinarySlut is now known as sdsds 01:57:23 ah - ok 01:58:06 would be nice to sorty by time spent by the function 01:58:11 s/sorty/sort/ 02:00:48 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-46-76.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:01:08 -!- Soulman1 [~knute@159.80-202-237.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 02:01:23 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.49.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:02:28 -!- ustreamer-369 [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:03:35 ustreamer-369 [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 02:10:42 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-54-129.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 02:11:34 -!- timack [~tim@hlfx53-2a-221.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:14:19 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:14:41 -!- m4dnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:16:43 -!- devslashnull [~james@220-253-105-132.TAS.netspace.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:16:48 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@189.66.83.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:17:38 -!- super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:18:43 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:19:17 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 02:20:07 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-169-124.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:27:33 devslashnull [~james@220.253-247-7.TAS.netspace.net.au] has joined #lisp 02:36:33 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.33.72] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 02:43:26 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 02:43:30 dys` [~andreas@krlh-5f7240c5.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 02:45:56 -!- dys [~andreas@krlh-5f73726d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:48:28 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:51:08 leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has joined #lisp 02:54:16 is there a way to test if a var is special? 02:55:19 Kerrick [~Kerrick@173-23-121-135.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 02:55:22 Nope. Short of generating some code whose behavior depends on it being special or not. 02:55:59 How do you end up in a situation where you wish to test for this? 02:56:59 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has quit [Quit: rich_holygoat] 02:59:13 schmrkc: I am modifying documentation-symbol. In SBCL, I can use C-c C-d C-d for both functions and vars but in ccl the output is less useful. 02:59:17 gigamonk`: thanks. 02:59:25 -!- gigamonk` is now known as gigamonkey 02:59:29 oh ic 03:01:07 -!- Kaer [b@c-2fcce253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:12:55 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:13:05 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:15:27 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@96.237.121.128] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 03:15:46 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: nighhttt] 03:16:57 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:17:28 -!- TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-76-175-244-227.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:18:03 TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-76-175-244-227.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:18:19 -!- TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-76-175-244-227.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:18:26 jameshwoo [~james@222.212.172.144] has joined #lisp 03:18:33 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 03:18:44 -!- jameshwoo [~james@222.212.172.144] has left #lisp 03:18:47 TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-76-175-244-227.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:19:05 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:19:32 LiamH [~liam@pool-173-49-255-42.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:19:38 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050069089.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 03:21:30 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 03:28:45 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-236-50.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:32:03 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:33:53 -!- ustreamer-369 [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:37:30 -!- TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-76-175-244-227.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:40:30 -!- iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@61.43.139.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:41:05 ustreamer-369 [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 03:42:07 TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-76-175-244-227.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:47:51 wbooze` [~user@xdsl-87-79-185-14.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:47:52 -!- jpd [~jpd@pine.noqsi.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:47:59 homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-185-14.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:49:23 jpd [~jpd@pine.noqsi.com] has joined #lisp 03:50:08 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-161-161.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:50:43 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-161-161.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:50:58 -!- LiamH [~liam@pool-173-49-255-42.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:57:48 -!- ustreamer-369 [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:59:58 ustreamer-369 [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 04:03:32 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-24-28-30-165.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: I'm big in Japan] 04:05:34 -!- jpd [~jpd@pine.noqsi.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:07:05 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:07:36 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:08:10 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:08:37 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:09:39 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:10:07 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:10:35 mobile_ [~mobile@CPE0013f7ace4a8-CM0013f7ace4a4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 04:11:12 hey is this working (srry in advance if it is) 04:11:40 oooo yay irc on iPad 04:12:05 xcept dont seem tp be receiving 04:12:21 can anyone confirm this from me by saying something 04:12:25 you're in the quiet time... 04:12:41 what is the quiet time ? 04:13:08 <- = new to irc 04:13:15 ""The time when it's quiet would be my wild guess. 04:13:21 oops 04:13:30 s/quiet/quiet"/ 04:13:50 lol 04:14:00 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.115.24] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:14:05 well at least I know its working 04:14:40 -!- ustreamer-369 [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:14:43 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:15:03 you wouldn't get connected if you weren't able to receive data 04:16:07 -!- mobile_ [~mobile@CPE0013f7ace4a8-CM0013f7ace4a4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:17:14 mobile [~mobile@CPE0013f7ace4a8-CM0013f7ace4a4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 04:17:58 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 04:17:58 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 04:17:58 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 04:18:37 ustreamer-369 [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 04:18:49 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has joined #lisp 04:21:27 -!- mobile [~mobile@CPE0013f7ace4a8-CM0013f7ace4a4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:22:11 mobile [~mobile@CPE0013f7ace4a8-CM0013f7ace4a4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 04:22:35 -!- mobile [~mobile@CPE0013f7ace4a8-CM0013f7ace4a4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #lisp 04:24:29 -!- srolls [~user@c-76-126-221-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:25:35 -!- yates [~yates@nc-76-3-105-199.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:47:07 -!- ustreamer-369 [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:49:18 Good morning everyone! 04:54:24 xinming_ [~hyy@115.221.1.122] has joined #lisp 04:56:44 -!- xinming [~hyy@115.223.131.195] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:56:44 beach: 'morning 04:57:05 (it's still dark outside... yay for 57° North) 04:57:16 ustreamer-369 [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 04:57:33 That's prett far north; where is it? 04:57:41 Aberdeen, Scotland 04:57:55 (if I remember the coordinates correctly) 04:58:16 I used to live around 60° north, and that was pretty bad at this time of year. 04:58:30 yup, slightly more than 57° north 04:58:35 http://toolserver.org/~geohack/geohack.php?pagename=Aberdeen¶ms=57.1526_N_-2.1100_E_region:GB_type:city <--- have a link 05:00:11 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-39-7-127.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:00:13 I used to live here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%A4ster%C3%A5s 05:00:42 I beat you by 2° :) 05:00:57 heh 05:01:49 I was thinking of spending half to a full year in Tromso as exchange student (but it failed due to various reasons, mostly not knowing about deadlines till it was too late) 05:02:15 That is pretty far north. 05:02:23 that would have been 69°4058 05:02:34 fun white nights and black days :D 05:02:59 frodef used to live there. 05:03:03 -!- jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:04:33 an acquintance of mine (the same person that is now trying to lure me to Google) is from there (or at least studied there, don't remember details) 05:05:52 MetalDust_Clouds [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:05:52 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:06:47 -!- MetalDust_Clouds [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:06:58 -!- Salamander_ is now known as Salamander 05:08:08 I still want to try Norway, though 05:08:52 -!- ustreamer-369 [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:10:58 ustreamer-369 [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 05:14:02 there's an interesting, though GPL-obsessed lisp company in Oslo 05:14:22 -!- dys` is now known as dys 05:14:58 p_l|uni: Frodef is now (still I think) working for a company in Oslo that uses Lisp. 05:15:41 is it the Copyleft Solutions? 05:15:52 they seem to mainly use CL or Java 05:15:54 I can't remember. 05:16:16 I just thought you might contact him if you want to work in Oslo. 05:19:05 p_l|uni: Why do you use "obsessed" together with "GPL". 05:19:09 s/./?/ 05:19:43 -!- ustreamer-369 [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:21:48 *franki^* is a little GPL-obsessed 05:21:52 beach: I got wary of GPL after years of being mindless zealot. Sometime before or around the time I stopped bashing Microsoft, I guess. 05:22:14 p_l|uni: So do you call most companies patent-obsessed? 05:22:23 one of the effects is that when I publish open source, I use MIT (or eventually LGPL) 05:22:27 beach: depends 05:22:56 ustreamer-369 [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 05:23:20 the pre-takeover Sun wasn't IMHO patent-obsessed despite large portfolio - they had practice of not exercising them, and they served mostly the same way as nuclear deterrent 05:24:04 there are of course patent wars between bloated legal departments of big corporations, and the true patent-obsessed, the patent trolls. 05:24:43 what about oracle? 05:25:20 leo2007: Oracle is the company that should have been aborted before incorporation 05:25:43 cbeck [cbeck@firefly.cat.pdx.edu] has joined #lisp 05:26:24 So I'm writing an indentation function in elisp, and attempting to search backwards for the last non blank, non comment line. Any hints as to why "^[:space:]*\(--.*\)?$" would fail to match such lines, assuming "--" is the comment signifier? 05:27:10 I do not know to what degree elisp regex syntax carries over to cl or the like, but any help would be much appreciated 05:27:39 cbeck: #emacs might have better answer 05:27:42 The CL language doesn't define any regular expressions, but there are CL libraries to do that. 05:28:29 p_l|uni: I had hoped so, but no luck on that front 05:29:00 p_l|uni: Oracle is in the same category as m$ for companies I don't like. 05:29:50 leo2007: true, the difference is that MS changed a lot in last decade, and continues to get better, IMHO 05:30:21 iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@61.43.139.4] has joined #lisp 05:30:57 btw, funny thing about GPL - I still *do* consider GPL for my code, but only for the code that I don't actually want to release as "library" kind of thing 05:32:03 -!- ustreamer-369 [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:32:21 (and my "proprietary" license idea -- since I haven't had a chance to use it yet -- is kinda like GPL with restrictions on distribution, and full change to GPL in certain situations, like cancelling of the product or company dissolvement) 05:32:28 -!- cbeck [cbeck@firefly.cat.pdx.edu] has left #lisp 05:34:39 but I did choose Don't screw the customer over as motto for my company 05:35:18 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has quit [Quit: rich_holygoat] 05:35:28 -!- iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@61.43.139.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:36:04 btw, an interesting distribution method for lisp applications - ship them complete with computer it's going to run in, as a black box 05:36:27 p_l|uni: why not webapp? 05:37:14 leo2007: some clients might want to have a local server 05:38:02 in fact, even google ships something like that, and there are some specialized systems sold similarly (mainly load-balancers and SSL proxies) 05:38:24 Also, "Cloud" is not a silver bullet 05:40:02 ustreamer-369 [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 05:41:18 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE00222d128ba2-CM00222d128b9e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:41:24 for example, my internet access got *worse* since ~2004, and thus I have certain bias for being tethered to internet 05:47:17 -!- ustreamer-369 [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:47:45 poor cloud 05:49:09 ustreamer-369 [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 05:49:24 red1ynx [~Dzmitry@91.149.140.201] has joined #lisp 05:50:45 gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.228.153] has joined #lisp 05:50:55 -!- wbooze` [~user@xdsl-87-79-185-14.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:51:02 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-185-14.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:52:05 btbngr [~btbgnr@212.183.140.4] has joined #lisp 05:54:55 Hey schmrkc 05:59:58 -!- TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-76-175-244-227.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:00:08 -!- upward [~upward@modemcable004.209-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:02:55 schmrkc: I consider a good cloud to be a one with high base and strong thermal underneath :> 06:06:49 Hello beach :) 06:07:21 p_l|uni: cloud science is not my strong point :D 06:07:40 hohoho [~hohoho@bm210-148-115-94.bmobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 06:09:48 -!- ustreamer-369 [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:11:25 that wasn't actually related to science :) 06:11:31 oh :( 06:11:36 I will make tea then. 06:11:40 but more to the practical application of it :) 06:11:48 btw, anyone used cl-oauth in anger? 06:12:36 -!- leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:13:54 ustreamer-369 [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 06:14:42 xan_ [~xan@211-000-133-196.jp.fiberbit.net] has joined #lisp 06:20:54 nowl [~nowl@c-66-30-78-234.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:28:53 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-56-134.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:38:03 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-97-98.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:50:29 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-95-217.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 06:52:21 ska` [~user@ppp-115-87-234-46.revip4.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 06:53:07 -!- ustreamer-369 [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:55:37 ustreamer-369 [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 06:56:47 adu [~ajr@pool-71-241-254-45.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:02:24 -!- ustreamer-369 [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:03:35 daniel___ [~daniel@p5B3277AD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:03:39 ustreamer-369 [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 07:05:49 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@173-23-121-135.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:06:43 -!- daniel__ [~daniel@p5B327231.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:07:10 -!- konr [~user@201.82.132.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:11:09 tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:14:10 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:14:19 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:14:49 ak70 [~ak70@a215.199.adsl.nextweb.net.mt] has joined #lisp 07:15:08 -!- ak70 [~ak70@a215.199.adsl.nextweb.net.mt] has left #lisp 07:18:12 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@bm210-148-115-94.bmobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:21:17 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-146-92.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 07:22:11 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:22:27 tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:23:56 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 07:26:23 iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@61.43.139.4] has joined #lisp 07:27:43 p_l|uni: What's the cl-oauth? 07:28:05 pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-60-2.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:34:00 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:34:20 sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:35:45 schmrkc: CL implmentation of the OAuth protocol 07:35:53 is it any good? 07:36:13 a sort of common authentication system for the web (so you can provide "temporary" or "limited" authentication to one service to access data stored on another, unrelated service) 07:36:56 the idea itself is very good, right now I just scared from implementing the draft 2.0 due to dropping of signatures 07:37:34 Why are signatures being dropped? Seems a good thing for auth. 07:38:18 -!- iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@61.43.139.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:38:50 schmrkc: pussies bitching about signatures being hard. And yes, I felt the need to call them "pussies". The funny thing is that Twitter crowd man'd up and implemented it in their clients (Twitter API requires OAuth 1.0a which uses signatures) 07:39:25 too hard to implement? Come on! 07:39:52 schmrkc: the spec was apparently too unclear etc. 07:39:55 "why use ssh when we can use telnet. ssh is too hard to implement" 07:40:32 p_l|uni: They should all be forced to do nothing but CLIM programming for a whole year these pussies := 07:40:35 :) 07:40:36 also, some people admitted that the spec made signatures too complex than it was needed, however those aren't necessarily the people who support dropping of signatures from 2.0 07:40:44 CLIM? you're too nice 07:41:09 Message level Windows GUI programming 07:41:23 oh that is badly specified? 07:42:15 schmrkc: no, but we could start betting game on how soon they stop reading docs 07:42:26 or start making hairy bugs 07:42:44 oh I like betting games. 07:43:41 then we could drop them into a cage and make them fight with mouses. I wonder how fast one of them would strangle *himself/herself* ... unintended 07:46:38 blue screen of death cage fight! 07:47:07 hmmm... I think I can safely drop OAuth for this part of my prototype... it's not like anyone will use my prototype, since the backend code will be understandable only to myself, nyahahahahahahahahahaha 07:47:32 good ol' security by obscurity (: 07:47:53 (the officially chosen language is Java. Guess what I am using) 07:48:04 -!- nowl [~nowl@c-66-30-78-234.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:49:39 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 07:49:46 schmrkc: well, not exactly that. It's simply too much work to use any complex scheme for the sucker^Wclient side till we start building an API for corporate clients that want access to dataset. 07:50:10 the poor lusers that will be generating the dataset can do with HTTP Basic and HTTPS 07:51:37 it's not like anyone will be using the service outside some testing done for coursework 07:51:58 oh fun :D 07:52:29 srsly, our original project was sooo much better than what our advisor suggested 07:52:38 Enough better that I wouldn't mind delivering it commercially 07:52:47 and it was denied? 07:52:55 apparently 07:53:12 we met (as full team) with the advisor on wednesday 07:54:00 IMHO, if we are going to "play business", we should try to make it one that isn't seen as "poor schmucks trying to make foursquare without a clue" 07:54:39 I'd think playing business with a good project is better than a crappy one. 07:55:01 -!- ustreamer-369 [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:55:52 yeah. I hope it gets somewhat more interesting by Wednesday, otherwise I'm going to take over Sysadmin position as the most interesting one in the whole clusterfuck 07:56:18 sysadmin being the most interesting... oh gosh. 07:56:26 must be some exciting project there :) 07:56:28 ouch. 07:56:52 schmrkc: yeah, figuring how to make the JVM not croak under college-written code :P 07:57:13 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-248-234.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:57:46 especially since there's at least one case where I *certainly* can't depend on the person going through CS2508 and thus understanding something about memory and how computers actually work -- that guy is on Erasmus exchange :/ 07:59:12 well... who needs to understand how computers work anyway. 07:59:18 just install some visual studio and click away. 07:59:22 ohh, shiny -- a complete crypto package 07:59:25 get with the program, p_l|uni ! :) 07:59:50 schmrkc: programmers need. The kind that doesn't need to is my target for the simplified programming environment I am building on the sly. 08:00:12 unfortunately, the VS and Java-related offerings do *require* that knowledge 08:00:15 pfft. I know a lot of programmers who don't know crap :) 08:00:40 oufcourse they're no good. but oh well :) 08:00:42 schmrkc: are they good programmers? 08:00:47 ... exactly 08:01:00 schmrkc: usually they tend to be the programmer i just replaced 08:01:07 (: 08:01:13 *schmrkc* is in the "learn asm first" boat. 08:01:52 so... we got several people, and we are going to code Java, and I'm certain the idea of actually thinking what GC means is not exactly popular 08:02:27 :S 08:02:35 it's scary because it is all true. 08:04:20 *p_l|uni* at least can cobble together a mark&sweep collector from his knowledge, and knows enough about references to understand what is happening... 08:04:27 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-1-3.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:04:42 ustreamer-369 [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 08:06:12 p_l|uni: That's the thing though. you're interested in what is actually happening :) 08:06:48 schmrkc: well, I cared about my software not spending years in GC or leaking memory like hell, so I looked it up... 08:07:02 ech 08:07:08 just get a faster CPU and more RAM ;) 08:07:11 I can't say I'm some expert there, but it's better than nothing 08:07:34 schmrkc: till you get forced to squeeze the last bit and last hz out of the cpu :P 08:07:40 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.228.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:07:42 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-22-174.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 08:08:10 isnt the cloud supposed to solve this? 08:08:26 (: 08:08:34 the cloud allows us to handwave it away into someone elses lap :) 08:08:42 schmrkc: as I said, Cloud isn't the silver bullet 08:09:04 but.. 08:09:07 the marketing :( 08:09:29 btbngr: till you find yourself without internet connection that allows you to work on your beefed-up EC2 instance, making you work with your poor laptop that was on the lower end when you got it two years before 08:09:40 details, details! :) 08:09:51 two years! 08:10:02 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 08:10:03 the uml! 08:10:07 do you not understand what you're doing to the economy by not buying a new one atleast twice a year? 08:10:08 kingless [~user@adsl-242-212-94.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 08:10:46 xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-248-234.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:11:05 the funny thing? I've got ~5yo laptop that can run circles around the one I'm using right now (the 2yo one), but which due to lack of S3 suspend fell into disuse (and needs a bigger hdd anyway). It also isn't a thinkpad ^^; 08:11:32 *schmrkc* hugs his thinkpad 08:11:40 I think that one is 5 years old too. the thinkpad. 08:11:48 never seen a reason to get a new one. 08:11:51 *p_l|uni* recently started looking at lenovo outlet 08:12:08 Lisa got one of those fancy eeepc. I'm a bit inclined to get one of those. they seem very nice for traveling. 08:13:37 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 08:15:24 I'm looking right now at refurbished Thinkpad Edge 14" 08:15:42 What's the battery time on those? 08:17:18 5-6 hours 08:19:41 might be a good deal there: for the price of a new eeepc (or slightly more, perhaps) you get a laptop with a much nicer keyboard 08:20:05 and if the thing is not widescreen (is it?), then even better 08:20:20 daaamn, ~£700 for that X201 that I looked up in the end 08:20:25 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:20:54 OK, that's not _that_ cheap :) 08:21:42 X201 - i5-520M, 4G ram, 128G SSD, no optical, 12.1" 1280x800 screen, ABGN MiMo WiFi, fingerprint reader, bluetooth, camera, 1y warranty 08:22:11 the Edge I looked first was ~£470 08:23:23 well who needs all that? :) 08:23:49 i5-520M, 4G ram, 500G hdd, DVD+RW DL, 14" 1366x768, camera, bluetooth, fingerprint reader, ABGN MiMo WiFi (but with less antennae), touchpad, 1y warranty 08:24:00 well who needs all that? :) 08:24:32 well, my search query discrimanated on cpu (i5), ram (3-4 gb), bluetooth and integrated camera 08:24:37 oh, and on >5h battery 08:26:50 dropping i5 requirement, we start getting Core2, and for some inane reason I actually want that one removed... :P 08:27:04 Why? 08:29:08 AFAIK I wanted all the new instruction set changes, but assuming we don't care... hmm.. some interesting ones, still in high price 08:29:26 -!- rootzlevel [~hpd@91-66-216-220-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:32:48 ~£585 = Thinkpad W500, Core2 Duo T9600, 4G ram, 320G hdd, BluRay, 15.4" 1920x1200, ATI FireGL, AGN WiFi, BT, Camera, Ultrabay (houses Bluray drive) 08:33:24 it seems that it also has firewire, fuuun 08:34:34 and yes, 1y warranty 08:38:20 ... I think I'll put it on price alert ^_^ 08:38:29 (: 08:38:39 *schmrkc* hugs the eeepc 08:38:55 ... damn, it's even cheaper than my 5yo laptop was when I bought it (which went for 3.5k PLN) 08:38:56 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-54-82-251-115-225.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:39:32 now... if only I could get the family to buy it for me for Christmas ;_; 08:41:20 ok sleep time :) 08:42:01 the gpu is kinda old and not OpenCL capable, though :( 08:42:28 heh. i bet opencl is really GOOD with laptop batteries.. 08:43:57 btbngr: both of my current laptops use their batteries only for S3 suspend 08:44:40 and in my case, laptops are my *only* machines, as I didn't have funds for a separate desktop machine nor a way to relocate it 08:45:07 ah, yeah. that game. 08:52:31 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-32-82-254-36-242.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:15:48 manby-ace [~manby-ace@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:17:24 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-95-217.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:18:38 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 09:25:38 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 09:27:03 -!- pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-60-2.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo_] 09:33:10 -!- manby-ace [~manby-ace@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: manby-ace] 09:42:43 fe[nl]ix: Are you here? 09:43:16 cffi-groveler is mostly your work isn't it? 09:47:11 afternoon 09:47:20 -!- kingless [~user@adsl-242-212-94.rmo.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:51:06 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:51:43 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 09:54:42 Soulman1 [~knute@159.80-202-237.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 09:56:13 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 09:56:48 H4ns``` [~user@pD4B9E313.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:01:25 -!- H4ns`` [~user@pD4B9E7E0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:02:37 seelenquell [~kvirc@pD9E43E84.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:05:08 dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 10:06:04 timor [~timor@port-92-195-183-203.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 10:10:35 Guthur [~Guthur@host86-141-209-190.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 10:13:29 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:18:37 Yuuhi [benni@p5483C47A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:22:41 pze7 [~p@chello089072188200.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 10:34:31 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.14.244] has joined #lisp 10:42:54 -!- pze7 [~p@chello089072188200.chello.pl] has left #lisp 10:49:08 I have a question: 10:49:48 the clhs specifies that using symbols from deleted packages may result in undefined behaviour. 10:51:28 that's not a question! 10:52:30 some of the ANSI tests (notably EXPORT.4) delete packages during a test. This seems to badly interact with the rest of the test actually using symbols in those packages *and* the fact that object equality remains through COMPILE (so that the symbol can't be re-linked to a new package by the same name which is also created by the test). Am I correct to think the test is flawed? 10:53:14 <_3b> what do you mean by 'symbols from deleted packages'? 10:54:20 <_3b> from what i see, deleting the package doesn't affect the symbols, aside from possibly the home package of the symbol, you just can't use the package to get to the symbol anymore 10:54:26 (defpackage "B") (compile nil (lambda () (delete-package "B") (make-package :name "B") (member 'b::foo (some-list)))) 10:55:12 _3b: deleting a package precludes it from still being called by the name it used to be. 10:55:16 a deleted- 10:55:24 previously-called-"B" package 10:55:37 <_3b> right, but 'b::foo was interned at read time, so that symbol is still valid 10:55:46 yea. 10:56:33 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-236-50.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 10:56:35 well, the test does not document that it's using the behaviour that 10:56:49 <_3b> if compile-file were involved, then you would have a problem with packages changing beiween compile and load though 10:56:55 the package "B" has been deleted since. 10:57:17 during compilation, there are packages "A" and "B" 10:57:29 as the first form of the test, those get deleted. 10:57:32 then, 10:57:51 (export '::bar "A") 10:58:26 "A" does not have any symbols, so that's a package error. 10:58:31 but: 10:58:39 he could easily have written 10:58:51 (export '::bar "B") 10:59:08 because the current and old packages "B" are not the same. 10:59:24 good day everyone 10:59:29 ok. the test is not flawed, just hard do understand? 10:59:41 *_3b* isn't sure what it is trying to test 11:00:10 ;; When a symbol not in a package is exported, export 11:00:10 ;; should signal a correctable package-error asking the 11:00:10 ;; user whether the symbol should be imported. 11:00:48 although that's extremely weird with a symbol with a deleted home-package. 11:01:27 <_3b> possibly it intends to check for a symbol that was in the deleted package, to make sure it isn't in the recreated package? 11:01:43 Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 11:01:56 <_3b> (or it could just be a regression test of some random bug in some old implementation :) 11:02:20 rootzlevel [~hpd@91-66-216-220-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 11:03:48 ehu: Where does it say that using symbols from a deleted package may result in undefined behavior? 11:03:56 -!- btbngr [~btbgnr@212.183.140.4] has left #lisp 11:04:04 btbngr [~btbgnr@212.183.140.4] has joined #lisp 11:05:13 beach: it doesn't explicitly, but the deleted package doesn't have a name anymore. How do you talk to the user about a symbol which doesn't have a package name? 11:05:55 ehu: they're called uninterned symbols? 11:06:14 nikodemus: aren't uninterned symbols symbols with no home package? 11:06:29 symbols from a deleted package still have that package as their home. 11:06:47 at least, delete-package doesn't say that the symbols are going to be uninterned. 11:07:18 ehu: the CLHS says that the home package of symbols that previously had the deleted package as their home packge is implementation dependent. What's the problem with that? 11:08:05 sbcl's take is that the home package becomes NIL: http://paste.lisp.org/display/115629 11:08:49 hm. 11:09:05 delete-package says the name of the package becomes NIL. 11:09:15 but that the package itself stays a package object 11:09:25 yes, so? 11:09:38 is that the same as what you demonstrate in the paste? 11:10:11 is the symbol name then supposed to be NIL::? 11:10:41 ehu: The symbol becomes uninterned because it doesn't have a home package anymore. 11:10:45 <_3b> the symbols name is just 11:10:54 <_3b> the :: part is just reader syntax 11:11:05 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 11:11:30 beach: well, that's not what delete-package says, or that's not my reading. the package remains (and hence the symbol can still refer to it) 11:11:33 uninterned symbol == symbol with no home package. in sbcl deleting a package means that symbols whose home-package that package used to be become uninterned symbols 11:11:44 ok. 11:12:00 "After this operation completes, the home package of any symbol whose home package had previously been package is implementation-dependent." is a pretty clear licence to do this, imo 11:12:16 <_3b> ehu: delete-package just says you can't do anything with the package object after it is deleted 11:12:27 ok. 11:12:46 ehu: It says that the new home package of the symbol is implementation defined. SBCL is choosing to make the symbol uninterned, i.e. with a home package of nil. 11:12:49 the only other sane option i see is that it remains the deleted package, but that is most likely to just cause trouble when some unsuspecting soul tries to do something with a symbol-package 11:13:31 heh. that's what I'm running into now: 11:14:12 (print-qualified-name ) 11:14:14 --> crash 11:14:24 uninterning them seems like a good idea. 11:14:26 thanks. 11:14:58 the other option was to special-case printing of names of packages-which-have been deleted. 11:15:40 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-92-8-84.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 11:15:54 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-22-174.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:16:19 ehu: What is print-qualified-name? 11:17:04 it's a java function in ABCL which prints the : fully qualified symbol nome. 11:17:05 name. 11:17:33 but since the package name in NULL --> boom 11:18:13 ehu: Are you sure that's what it is? 11:19:00 yes, however, you make me curious. You don't? 11:19:11 -!- devslashnull [~james@220.253-247-7.TAS.netspace.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:19:42 ehu: I don't know, but that would imply that ABCL doesn't alter the home package of symbols in the deleted package. Is that so? 11:19:52 yes. 11:19:59 it currently doesn't. 11:20:08 but I'm looking into it now. 11:20:16 because this crash suddenly popped up. 11:21:08 print-qualified-name would fail to do its job if the symbols were uninterned as well. 11:22:09 well, ABCL distinguishes between deleted packages (by setting the name to null) and uninterned symbols, whose package is NIL. 11:22:17 the NIL special case is already there. 11:23:06 tcr: pong 11:23:28 so, yea, you would be right, if it wasn't a special case already. but thanks for pointing these things out. it's easy to forget one of the applicable cases. 11:23:56 <_3b> hmm, could conforming code set home-package to a deleted package, as long as it didn't call (or cause to be called) and package functions on it? 11:24:08 hi fe[nl]ix. I'm wondering why the groveller processes the file; did you consider writing macros for the magic operators, and use LOAD instead? 11:24:17 _3b: yes. 11:24:20 The advantage of that is that C-c C-m would work 11:28:09 manby-ace [~manby-ace@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:31:19 tcr: I did, but it was unclear to me how to do it properly, so I went with the easiest choice 11:33:43 expand to stuff which writes to a special variable which is then bound to the appropriate stream around the LOAD? 11:33:53 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:40:38 HET2 [~diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 11:40:55 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@189.66.49.244] has joined #lisp 11:41:28 thanks all, allowed me to kill another ABCL bug! 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KVIrc Insomnia 4.0.2, revision: 4744, sources date: 20100627, built on: 2010-08-01 17:01:07 UTC 4744 http://www.kvirc.net] 11:58:18 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@96.237.121.128] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 12:00:43 -!- ska` [~user@ppp-115-87-234-46.revip4.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:04:02 hargettp [~anonymous@96.237.121.128] has joined #lisp 12:05:37 Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 12:13:17 konr [~user@201.82.132.104] has joined #lisp 12:15:38 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:17:39 p_l|uni, Which university are you at? 12:19:44 rdd` [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 12:21:02 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:24:04 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 12:27:38 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@189.66.49.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:36:21 super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 12:37:21 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@189.66.175.82] has joined #lisp 12:39:44 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 12:40:41 -!- dys [~andreas@krlh-5f7240c5.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:42:05 University of Aberdeen, one of the so-called "ancient" universities apparently 12:43:11 (read: Aberdeen had two universities before England built their third one, nyahahahahaha) 12:44:26 -!- rdd` [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:44:47 dys [~andreas@krlh-5f7240c5.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 12:46:27 Doesn't sound like they were very effective, then. :) 12:47:17 Edward [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-33-15.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:48:28 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@189.66.175.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:49:15 LiamH [~liam@pool-173-49-255-42.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:49:44 abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:52:32 -!- Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:53:01 sabalaba [~sabalaba@123.113.109.25] has joined #lisp 12:54:31 Zhivago: more like they concentrated on different subjects, and then merged in 19th century 12:54:37 mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has joined #lisp 12:54:37 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has quit [Changing host] 12:54:37 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 12:55:10 King's College was the "general" one while Marischal College was a medical school 12:58:03 -!- LiamH [~liam@pool-173-49-255-42.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 13:00:24 r3d3 [~r3d3@94.54.235.211] has joined #lisp 13:01:00 the rest was unadulterated rivalry between people :D 13:01:08 -!- r3d3 [~r3d3@94.54.235.211] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:01:28 sellout [~greg@64.134.66.112] has joined #lisp 13:02:03 r22d22 [~r22d22@94.54.235.211] has joined #lisp 13:02:28 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-43-50.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:02:56 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@189.66.225.188] has joined #lisp 13:03:17 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-236-50.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:03:19 p_l|uni, Would you consider attending the Global Game Jam in January, one in Scotland 13:03:59 I attended the Glasgow event a couple of years ago, it was good fun 13:05:03 hmmm... depends on when it is 13:05:13 28th of Jan 2011 13:05:34 And whether I will be able to scourge the funds. Sleeping and food will also have to be accounted 13:05:37 *accounted for 13:05:44 r22d221 [~r22d22@94.54.235.211] has joined #lisp 13:05:44 hmmm... 28th of January.... might fit 13:06:02 It's 48 hours long over that weekend 13:06:28 -!- r22d22 [~r22d22@94.54.235.211] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:06:38 but I won't know till late in January :/ 13:06:48 I'll have to check 13:06:59 Well at least you wont have to worry about flights 13:07:09 so a last minute decision isn't too difficult 13:07:18 let's start QPX and search for flights ^_^ 13:07:47 (have I already mentioned I love QPX and Matrix?) 13:08:01 nope 13:08:27 -!- r22d221 [~r22d22@94.54.235.211] has quit [Client Quit] 13:08:31 I've never used it before 13:08:35 I think I have. Anyway, it's wonderful system 13:09:57 saves me a metric f*ckton of time 13:10:52 damn, flights are too expensive, let's check trains 13:11:17 rdd` [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 13:11:20 flights between edinburgh, and glasgow? 13:11:47 -!- rdd` is now known as rdd 13:11:49 by the time it would take you to get through airport security you could drive the distance 13:12:48 Guthur: Aberdeen 13:12:58 oh aye ye 13:13:27 it's 2:35 by train one way, which is approximately the time it would take to fly, I guess 13:14:14 ... wtf ~£50 13:14:34 there is also an event in Edinburgh 13:14:53 There will be quite a few in the UK as a whole 13:14:57 niiice 13:15:03 Where are you? 13:15:13 Northern Ireland 13:15:38 The Irish event will be in Dublin so it is just as easy for me to go to Scotland 13:15:44 heh 13:16:06 oh, now I remember, this week we have techmeetup and I want to try showing up the guy doing the talk ^_^ 13:16:26 Quadresce` [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 13:16:28 -!- Quadresce` [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:16:58 (he is going to use Sinatra and Ruby, I'll try Hunchentoot, Defservice and Common Lisp) 13:17:20 Is the talk at the weekend? 13:17:42 no, on wednesday 13:18:14 it's a monthly event, we have few Scotland TechMeetups around 13:18:22 each one is on different week 13:18:26 Oh were you talking about this week? 13:18:33 no the week of the GGJ 13:18:37 no/not 13:18:54 yeah 13:20:01 damn, why there's no Scotland-wide seasonal ticket? 13:20:40 Quadrescence [~Quadresce@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 13:21:05 I mean, wtf, £151 for a weekly ticket for *one* route? 13:21:57 ustreame_ [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 13:22:04 Thats extreme 13:22:21 suppose it depends on the length of said route 13:23:50 ... also, LOL - I can buy a ticket for the whole country, but only if I am not a resident 13:29:16 hmm... £52 for a 15 day card... might be useful if I want to travel around Scotland one day 13:29:37 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 13:30:01 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Client Quit] 13:30:25 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 13:30:58 fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-084-056-181-159.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:52 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:35:54 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 13:36:17 -!- Edward [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-33-15.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 13:41:41 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 13:47:24 Kerrick [~Kerrick@173-23-121-135.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 13:49:08 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-229-121.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 13:49:49 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 13:52:52 -!- Quadrescence [~Quadresce@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has 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[~user@125.39.109.162] has joined #lisp 14:10:02 phrixos` [~user@bs0176.nerc-bas.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:10:12 -!- phrixos` is now known as phrixos 14:10:15 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:10:24 -!- phrixos [~user@bs0176.nerc-bas.ac.uk] has quit [Changing host] 14:10:24 phrixos [~user@gnu/webmaster/phrixos] has joined #lisp 14:17:13 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 14:22:59 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:23:13 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:24:00 new-lisper [~daniel@c95334ae.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 14:27:54 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.55.238] has joined #lisp 14:29:31 -!- red1ynx [~Dzmitry@91.149.140.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:30:58 -!- sellout [~greg@64.134.66.112] has quit [Quit: sellout] 14:32:20 -!- new-lisper [~daniel@c95334ae.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:32:20 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-32-11-182.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire.] 14:33:00 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-185-14.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:34:06 pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-60-2.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:34:17 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-185-14.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:35:07 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:36:23 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-22-31.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:41:50 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 14:43:08 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 14:44:45 -!- phrixos [~user@gnu/webmaster/phrixos] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:47:37 *p_l|uni* just understood a way to pry market share from his competitors, but it's a bug-ridden one.... 14:48:04 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@173-23-121-135.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:48:09 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.55.238] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:48:51 kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-245-21.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 14:49:17 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:52:06 "VBA in CL" sounds outright scary ^^; 14:53:41 Omg. 14:54:18 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:54:18 p_l|uni: just "VBA" sounds scary enough 14:54:20 hmmm... supporting just the database part might be enough 14:54:22 red1ynx [~Dzmitry@91.149.140.201] has joined #lisp 14:55:05 -!- benny [~benny@i577A29F8.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:56:30 Kruppe [~user@CPE00222d128ba2-CM00222d128b9e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 14:56:35 sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:58:19 benny [~benny@i577A1C8C.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:00:33 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@189.66.225.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:01:58 francogrex [~user@109.130.164.238] has joined #lisp 15:05:04 someone tried elephant DB and how does it compare with others databases like sqlite for example? 15:05:55 -!- incandenza [~djm@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:06:18 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 15:06:48 francogrex: hard to compare apples and orangutans 15:08:26 elephant is the apple and sqlite the orangutan ? 15:08:49 so it's not really a "stand-alone" relational database system 15:08:52 dfkjjkfd [~paulh@145.120.22.35] has joined #lisp 15:09:32 lol 15:09:34 the othr way around. 15:09:43 ikki [~ikki@189.247.118.64] has joined #lisp 15:10:05 Elephant is an object persistence system. SQLite is a plain RDBMS. 15:10:19 Elephant can use different storage engines, SQLite uses its own 15:10:42 but the first reason is why you can't do a blanket comparison, you always need a sort-of case study 15:10:52 gonzojive [~red@75.55.122.12] has joined #lisp 15:11:27 also, ORZ, I'll apparently need a windows server for my business at some point 15:11:29 could an RDBMS be entirely written in common lisp ? 15:11:47 francogrex: definitely. You have read PCL? :-) 15:12:18 while it's not exactly a RDBMS, it shows certain ideas that *could* be reused for a full RDBMS. It's however a lose-lose proposition 15:12:21 but does one already exist (of the same quality as msql and sqlite and oracle) ? 15:12:24 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 15:12:26 nope 15:12:31 ok 15:12:40 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host60-184-dynamic.21-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [] 15:12:51 Postgres started out as CL app, but switched to C early on 15:13:02 Bronsa [~bronsa@host60-184-dynamic.21-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:13:02 yes I heard that :( 15:13:10 I wonder why? 15:13:17 francogrex: it would eat all memory 15:13:21 because lisp is slow, clearly 15:13:38 haven't you heard that? 15:13:47 stassats: at the time, they had valid reasons 15:13:59 is this argument still being seriously used today? 15:14:14 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:15:34 francogrex: by some, usually uninformed people. Postgres guys (or rather INGRES at the time) had an actual point, which was that the machines they had were rather memory constrained and several megabytes core (still under 10, iirc) was using too much memory they could have used for stuff that actually worked for *them*, not for *runtime* 15:15:35 some even find C too slow 15:16:14 stassats: I once encountered a page extolling the virtues of programming Win32 in Assembler 15:17:15 I can understand doing this with a powerful Macro assembler, but please, the x86 assembly crowd didn't necessarily met with the guys that survived through *real* Macro assemblers 15:17:15 p_l|uni: nothing can make win32 worse 15:17:31 I like assembly; I even found a page one time that tought people how to directly use machine languahe (the 0s and 1s) 15:18:27 TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-76-175-244-227.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:18:49 francogrex: I like assembly as well, but the reasons given by author the website were rather skewed 15:19:25 -!- xan_ [~xan@211-000-133-196.jp.fiberbit.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:21:40 p_l|uni: yeah I know that guy was probably a retard. But it's good to try some things just for fun and learning sometime. Some people don't understand this and they ask you with a dumb lok on their faces: "but why would you want to do that?" 15:21:55 xan_ [~xan@211-000-133-196.jp.fiberbit.net] has joined #lisp 15:22:24 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-183-203.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:23:10 -!- ustreame_ [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 15:23:18 -!- xan_ [~xan@211-000-133-196.jp.fiberbit.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:23:26 -!- ustreamer-369 [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 15:26:35 stassats: What is your opinion of http://gregslepak.posterous.com/on-lisps-readability 15:27:12 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.164.238] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:27:54 ustreamer-369 [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 15:28:07 Quadrescence: i disagree with "The readability of your source code should not depend on the editor used to view it." 15:28:10 that is all 15:28:14 :) 15:28:57 The first exercise on that page was easy for me... It didn't take me time to figure out where it was nested. 15:29:10 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 15:29:39 francogrex [~user@109.130.164.238] has joined #lisp 15:30:01 and i didn't read the whole thing, because it's pointless 15:30:28 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.164.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:30:56 francogrex [~user@109.130.164.238] has joined #lisp 15:32:06 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.164.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:35:22 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 15:36:40 francogrex [~user@109.130.164.238] has joined #lisp 15:38:01 finally fixed... had a little hitch with aspell. 15:38:47 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:38:59 jweiss [~weissj@cpe-069-134-025-078.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:39:40 anyhow... do you think there would be interest if one decided to develop a CL-based RDMBS? 15:40:51 RDBMS 15:41:07 Kerrick [~Kerrick@67.224.68.56] has joined #lisp 15:42:02 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 15:46:15 does exist in CL something like http://cassandra.apache.org/ ? 15:46:55 francogrex: probably not 15:50:37 araujo [~araujo@190.38.50.25] has joined #lisp 15:50:37 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.38.50.25] has quit [Changing host] 15:50:37 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 15:54:13 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:55:30 pdenno [~pdenno@207-172-151-197.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 15:57:42 kiuma: what do you mean "something like"? 15:58:25 kiuma: cassandra can be classified in several ways, and if "something like" is the nosql definition, then yeah, lisp has some systems like that. 15:58:37 if you want something more exactly like cassandra, then no 16:06:05 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:08:22 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@96.237.121.128] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 16:10:42 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host60-184-dynamic.21-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:10:58 Bronsa [~bronsa@host60-184-dynamic.21-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:13:10 Guest30931 [~kentilton@ool-18bb8156.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:17 -!- manby-ace [~manby-ace@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: manby-ace] 16:13:35 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 16:14:59 is everyone aware of http://lispjobs.wordpress.com/ (the Ft Lauderdale listing?) 16:15:33 Oh, sorry, Guest30931 is kenny tilton, I'll sort that out 16:15:38 There's still some openings. 16:15:43 -!- Guest30931 is now known as kennytilton 16:16:38 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75542f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:17:11 too bad i don't have "solid experience in Web development" 16:17:28 THe openings seem to be in data mining. 16:17:39 more like "amorphous experience" 16:18:09 kennytilton: Is the data amorphous? 16:18:55 I would not worry about the specifics as long as the Common Lisp is there and the resume is generally solid. 16:19:06 Ask them if they're asking you if you're a bit thick. 16:19:16 What makes data amorphous? This is dental insurance. 16:19:24 :-) 16:20:10 -!- sie [sie@unaffiliated/sierinjs] has quit [Changing host] 16:20:10 sie [sie@unaffiliated/sie] has joined #lisp 16:20:12 kennytilton: ok, i'll mail you 16:20:15 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@189.66.203.56] has joined #lisp 16:20:42 Kewl. Spread the word, plz. 16:20:55 Bronsa_ [~bronsa@host60-184-dynamic.21-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:21:18 adu_ [~ajr@pool-71-191-174-32.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:21:59 I wonder how effective that Lispjobs listing is. Even I did not pay attention to that and I have been looking. 16:23:03 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-71-241-254-45.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:24:08 kenanb [~Kenan@94.54.235.211] has joined #lisp 16:24:18 who has the src code of minion? 16:24:41 everyone 16:24:46 I don't know if the code is public.. chandler wrote it. 16:25:01 -!- kenanb [~Kenan@94.54.235.211] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:25:14 I'd like to make a very simple bot that tells people when I'm away from my desk and for how long 16:25:46 kenanb [~Kenan@94.54.235.211] has joined #lisp 16:25:57 minion's code is public (at least some version thereof, anyway), I believe it's one of the examples in cl-irc 16:26:11 francogrex: that sounds like an irc client which monitors your inactivity time. 16:26:21 ehu: yes 16:26:31 Bronsa__ [~bronsa@host60-184-dynamic.21-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:26:31 cmm: ok will check out cl-irc 16:26:48 -!- chandler [~n@opendarwin/developer/chandler] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:26:58 -!- kenanb [~Kenan@94.54.235.211] has quit [Client Quit] 16:27:20 chandler [~n@new.unmutual.info] has joined #lisp 16:27:45 -!- chandler is now known as Guest24533 16:28:07 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.235.211] has joined #lisp 16:28:47 wbooze` [~user@xdsl-87-78-36-207.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:28:55 homie` [~user@xdsl-87-78-36-207.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:29:49 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-185-14.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:29:53 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-87-78-36-207.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:29:55 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.235.211] has left #lisp 16:30:05 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-185-14.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:30:06 -!- Bronsa_ [~bronsa@host60-184-dynamic.21-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:30:07 -!- wbooze` [~user@xdsl-87-78-36-207.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:30:18 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.70.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:31:24 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:31:49 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.70.252] has joined #lisp 16:32:01 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.235.211] has joined #lisp 16:32:43 atomx [~user@92.81.118.66] has joined #lisp 16:33:20 homie [~user@xdsl-87-78-36-207.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:33:24 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.235.211] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:34:04 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:34:11 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.235.211] has joined #lisp 16:35:08 -!- super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:35:17 hargettp [~anonymous@96.237.121.128] has joined #lisp 16:36:02 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.164.238] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:36:17 -!- Guest24533 [~n@new.unmutual.info] has quit [Changing host] 16:36:17 Guest24533 [~n@opendarwin/developer/chandler] has joined #lisp 16:36:34 -!- Guest24533 is now known as chandler 16:36:58 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 16:37:30 nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 16:38:05 carlocci [~nes@93.37.219.243] has joined #lisp 16:38:15 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-78-36-207.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:39:37 when I run cl-glut-examples for the first time, it works like a charm, but the second time i try, i get unhandled memory fault error, anyone knows the cause of this error? 16:40:12 that's FFI for you 16:40:35 so how can i solve this? 16:40:50 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@123.113.109.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:41:01 by finding the problem and fixing it 16:41:18 <_3b> last time someone had that problem, it was related to using cl-opengl from the old darcs repository, so first make sure you have current code 16:42:59 -!- gonzojive [~red@75.55.122.12] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 16:43:28 xcl does not load quicklisp 16:43:34 but abcl-2.0.9 does here 16:43:54 i'm afraid quicklisp doesn't support xcl 16:44:06 err abcl-0-22 sorry 16:44:24 nope, it does load the files but whitout effect 16:44:27 xcl has bugs which prevent it from supporting quicklisp at the moment 16:44:33 (ql:system-list) gives nil then 16:44:34 should be fixed in a week or so 16:45:15 -!- Bronsa__ [~bronsa@host60-184-dynamic.21-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:45:28 I was going to say GLUT does that unless hacked as necessary, which is what I had to do back in the day, but _3b's commnet sounds much more promising 16:46:16 i tested the latest recommended xcl tar file and the git version, the git version does work better, the other even does not load my file, giving errors like path not found or so 16:47:17 wbooze: the last relevant bug is still not fixed in git, however, so xcl won't run quicklisp yet (even apart from the fact that there is no xcl support in quicklisp itself) 16:48:31 gnooth: i see that xcl development is somewhat active, are you using it for something? 16:48:42 no, I developing it :) 16:48:56 s/I/I'm/ 16:49:08 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-202-208.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:49:17 leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has joined #lisp 16:49:26 -!- peterwang [~user@125.39.109.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:49:55 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-202-208.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 16:50:34 i see, i thought you were developing it to use for something cool 16:50:59 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-236-50.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 16:51:10 no, I'm developing it so others might be able to use it for something cool... 16:52:22 sorry antifuchs , I had my parents here, and yes with 'something like' I meant nosql 16:53:03 which is the CL option ? 16:54:21 _3b, i downloaded it from your git repository now, but this time i get "lisp connection closed unexpectedly: connection broken by remote peer" error from slime at the second run 16:55:00 <_3b> kenanb: any messages in *inferior-lisp* buffer? 16:56:56 gnooth, will it be possible to embed XCL in applications written in C or C++? 16:57:08 sabalaba [~sabalaba@123.113.109.25] has joined #lisp 16:57:50 ska```: that will probably be possible (but it's not really anything I'm working on at the moment) 16:57:56 xcl is not exactly small 16:59:23 thanks 17:00:32 _3b: i got "x error of failed request: badvalue (integer parameter out of range for operation) major opcode of failed request: 78 x_createcolormap" and it continues 17:03:12 -!- pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-60-2.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo_] 17:04:10 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-245-21.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 17:05:01 <_3b> kenanb: hmm, not sure what to do about that, doesn't sound like something that the lisp part should be able to cause 17:05:46 nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-178-106.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 17:06:55 ok, it turned to unhandled memory fault error again, strange 17:07:42 anyway, thanks _3b, kennytilton, i hope i can find a solution 17:11:28 kenanb: the GLUT source I started from actually just exited if it saw it was already initialized. does cl-glut sit atop the original or OpenGlut or FreeGlut? The newer ones allowed restart. Of course it might be something else. I would get the C source and add some print statements and see what is going on if the cl-glut folks cannot help 17:12:14 <_3b> yeah, using another glut might be worth trying 17:12:19 -!- btbngr [~btbgnr@212.183.140.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:12:29 *_3b* doesn't remember which is the good one, but that sort of thing should work in cl-glut 17:15:43 -!- katesmith [~mnrkate@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [] 17:15:47 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-78-36-207.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:15:48 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-78-36-207.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:16:43 homie [~user@xdsl-87-78-36-207.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:16:44 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-78-36-207.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:16:45 kennytilton: it sits on top of freeglut 17:17:49 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-78-36-207.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:17:55 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-78-36-207.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:20:09 homie [~user@xdsl-87-78-36-207.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:20:16 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-78-36-207.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:22:02 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:24:05 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@pD9E27F4F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:24:08 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@189.66.203.56] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:24:18 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 17:25:27 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@189.66.203.56] has joined #lisp 17:25:53 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.70.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:27:45 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.58.140] has joined #lisp 17:29:33 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-236-50.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Error: do not makunbound t please!] 17:30:01 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-236-50.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 17:31:08 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-39-7-127.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:31:49 manby-ace [~manby-ace@88-96-24-53.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:33:56 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@c-71-192-163-98.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:34:52 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:28 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@189.66.203.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:39:23 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@189.66.197.133] has joined #lisp 17:40:34 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 17:40:54 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-39-7-127.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:41:41 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-39-7-127.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:38 -!- TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-76-175-244-227.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:44:21 super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 17:46:06 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.235.211] has left #lisp 17:49:33 -!- kennytilton [~kentilton@ool-18bb8156.dyn.optonline.net] has left #lisp 17:54:56 incandenza [~djm@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:53 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@67.224.68.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:59:49 centos-user-az1 [~nurlan@94.20.67.232] has joined #lisp 18:00:41 hi everyone how to start to learn lisp have any suggestion? 18:00:58 mattrepl [~mattrepl@c-67-180-32-216.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:00:59 Read a book. 18:01:22 centos-user-az1: what kind of programming experience do you have? 18:01:31 minion: please tell centos-user-az1 about PCL 18:01:32 centos-user-az1: please look at PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 18:01:41 rtoym: you're really smart i appreciate you 18:02:22 That's how I learned. WFM. 18:02:27 sykopomp: i have some c, c++, java knowledge 18:02:28 -!- leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.20] 18:02:35 centos-user-az1: then PCL should be good. :) 18:02:48 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.199.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:02:48 and an open mind would help. 18:02:54 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 18:03:19 who using lisp everyday? 18:03:33 300 some people here? 18:03:34 centos-user-az1: Since you didn't like suggestion, then pcl isn't for you. It's a book. Gasp! 18:03:47 Er, my suggestion. 18:03:53 rtoym: in his defense, "read a book" is pretty vague. 18:04:12 graham's book has exercises 18:04:17 and crackers 18:04:26 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 18:04:33 centos-user-az1: i am 18:04:39 grahams' book teaches bad style and elides a lot of important things 18:04:57 sykopomp: Yeah, but in context, reading a book certainly implies a lisp book. 18:05:29 nikodemus: why does it teaches bad style? 18:05:36 teach* 18:05:40 minion: please tell Blkt about graham-crackers 18:05:40 Blkt: have a look at graham-crackers: An critique of Paul Graham's coding style, specifically as found in his book "ANSI Common Lisp", available here: http://www.cs.northwestern.edu/academics/courses/325/readings/graham/graham-notes.html 18:05:50 "The best book on Lisp for the layman is Lewis Carroll's Alice in Wonderland. That's because it's the best book on anything for the layman." -- Paraphrased from someone else, precisely whom I forget. 18:05:50 An critique 18:05:51 rtoym: whats gasp does mean? 18:06:59 sykopomp: you can fix it! 18:07:18 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-22-31.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:08:48 rtoym: i'm sorry i hadn't understood u ok this book is good, thx 18:09:15 _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 18:09:31 centos-user-az1: No prob. 18:10:38 *beach* stays out of this. 18:11:02 rtoym: what have u done on lisp? 18:11:41 this channel isn't short on letters 18:11:52 centos-user-az1: People in this channel don't particularly like abbreviations such as "u" and "thx". 18:12:35 beach: ok, no problem 18:12:59 rtoym maintains cmucl pretty much single-handedly 18:13:06 centos-user-az1: Google will show some of the things I've done. Or are you asking for something in particular? 18:14:04 rtoym: what did you mean? 18:14:18 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@host86-141-209-190.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:14:20 rtoym is so good, he can maintain cmucl with a just left hand 18:15:13 centos-user-az1: You asked me what I've done on lisp. I said google can tell you. But do you want to know something in particular that I've done with lisp? 18:17:07 rtoym: for example why u've chosen lisp, there is many strong languages can help us solve problems 18:17:33 centos-user-az1: It is spelled "you". 18:18:02 rtoym: also how can google tell me about what you've done? 18:18:05 centos-user-az1: Because I like it. Does what I want in a way that I like. But I can program in other languages when appropriate. 18:18:32 beach: i did with reflex 18:18:48 centos-user-az1: I suppose googling for rtoy and lisp will give some hints. 18:19:03 centos-user-az1: Some people here, including myself, think that using abbreviations suchas "u" means that the person doing it doesn't master his or her tools (abbrev mode in Emacs for instance) or has chosen to use inferior tools that don't allow the equivalent of Emacs abbrevs. 18:19:14 nyef: I think that Alice and Wonderland thing is from Guy Steele 18:19:28 Might be. 18:19:30 rtoym: Showing results for troy lisp. Search instead for rtoy lisp 18:19:33 -!- adu_ [~ajr@pool-71-191-174-32.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu_] 18:19:37 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-22-31.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:19:51 The original quote was about "programming", not "lisp", though. 18:19:53 ehu: Haha! I never actually tried that before. 18:19:59 beach: do you really type "you" "y M-/" ?! 18:19:59 beach: ok, and are u responsible person on this channel? 18:20:13 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@c-67-180-32-216.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 18:20:35 mattrepl [~mattrepl@c-67-180-32-216.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:20:37 rtoym: "Raymond Toy" did show XEmacs and Maxima; not CMU. 18:20:44 gigamonkey: you can just write u with abbrev and it will be expanded into you 18:20:44 gigamonkey: I didn't talk about dynamic abbrevs. I really meant abbrev-mode. Few people seem to use it which always surprises me. 18:21:27 centos-user-az1: No, I am not, so you are free to write whatever you want. Just go right ahead. 18:21:27 Ah. I used it long ago but then decided that dynamic abbrevs got me most of the benefit with much less up-front cost. 18:22:00 beach: ok, 18:22:07 gigamonkey: Abbrev-mode saves me many minutes per week, perhaps even a significant fraction of an hour. 18:22:12 ehu: But "rtoy" lisp does show cmucl, series, maxima, and f2cl. 18:22:41 centos-user-az1: although if you want to go the "are you authority route": I'm not authority either, but I like people to go through some trouble to communicate appropriately. 18:22:52 *ehu* isn't native english either 18:24:16 rtoym: ah so *that*'s how you override that! heh. I thought you just couldn't do that. 18:24:38 ehu: I just guessed that that would work. :-) 18:24:43 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@c-67-180-32-216.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:25:03 ehu: also +rtoy lisp 18:25:19 abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:25:19 ejohnson [~elliott@99-100-65-163.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:25:40 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.14.244] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:26:22 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.55.238] has joined #lisp 18:26:31 and '+rtoy -rody -toy -roy -troy lisp' to shut it up 18:26:47 lol 18:28:24 pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-60-2.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:29:12 unfortunately, format doesn't have date formatting 18:30:20 Wasn't there some trick with ~/ for ISO date formatting of some sort? 18:30:55 (format t "~a ~[~;January~;February~;March~;April~;May~;June~;July~;August~;September~;October~;November~;December~] ~a" 10 5 2005) => 10 May 2005 18:31:22 That doesn't look like ISO 8601 to me. 18:31:29 s1gma_ [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 18:31:38 and it wasn't intended to be 18:31:46 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-22-31.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 18:32:26 drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 18:32:55 nyef: Have ~/ call format-universal-time or whatever other time printing function you have? 18:34:18 -!- _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:34:50 -!- ska``` [~user@ppp-58-8-208-10.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:35:51 Yeah, that was the basic idea. 18:36:48 The real cuteness was that it was an ISO standard format, stuffed in a package named ISO, and with the function an actual numeric name, so something like ISO:|8601|, but in FORMAT it would be ~/ISO:8601/. 18:37:28 Heh. That is cute. 18:37:29 Neat! 18:43:12 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:45:31 Kerrick [~Kerrick@173-23-121-135.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 18:45:40 -!- pdenno [~pdenno@207-172-151-197.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com] has left #lisp 18:47:49 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@173-23-121-135.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Client Quit] 18:48:05 pdenno [~user@207-172-151-197.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 18:48:18 -!- debiandebian [~chatzilla@ntszok094010.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:48:29 debiandebian_ [~chatzilla@219.116.51.10] has joined #lisp 18:48:32 -!- debiandebian_ is now known as debiandebian 18:50:46 -!- ustreamer-369 [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 18:53:17 sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:54:59 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:55:04 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:55:45 -!- nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:55:49 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:59:36 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:00:32 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:01:11 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:01:39 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@rrcs-64-183-136-38.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:01:39 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@rrcs-64-183-136-38.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 19:01:39 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has joined #lisp 19:03:28 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@189.66.197.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:08:23 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.235.211] has joined #lisp 19:08:24 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 19:11:26 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-22-31.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:12:57 Blkt` [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-226-26.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 19:14:30 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-236-50.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:16:40 gemelen_ [~shelta@shpd-92-101-146-92.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 19:19:04 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-146-92.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:21:34 humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:52 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.235.211] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:23:28 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-158.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:23:36 -!- gemelen_ is now known as gemelen 19:25:20 -!- skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:26:05 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@189.66.197.133] has joined #lisp 19:30:30 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 19:30:42 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 19:33:31 Edward [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-9-170.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:34:17 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-22-31.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 19:35:05 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-22-31.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:35:06 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.68] has joined #lisp 19:37:13 -!- super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:38:27 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has quit [Quit: rich_holygoat] 19:40:46 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@189.66.197.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:41:15 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@189.66.15.91] has joined #lisp 19:47:30 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@96.237.121.128] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 19:48:13 kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-228-159.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 19:48:32 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host60-184-dynamic.21-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:53:57 fe[nl]ix: are you there? 19:54:45 mattrepl [~mattrepl@c-67-180-8-255.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:57:19 timack [~tim@hlfx47-203.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 19:59:07 hun [~hun@95-89-69-55-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 19:59:12 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:01:31 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.58.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:02:12 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.235.211] has joined #lisp 20:03:02 -!- daniel___ is now known as daniel 20:03:15 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.115.201.241] has joined #lisp 20:03:55 What do you guys recommend for people who want to learn CL but are stuck with vim? 20:04:19 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-146-92.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:04:46 i recommend to learn Emacs 20:04:49 chips ! ? 20:05:21 swede cookies ! ? 20:05:33 burritos ! ? 20:05:39 pizzas ! ? 20:06:00 try a, b, c, or d ? 20:06:02 lol 20:06:26 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-48-17.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:06:35 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:06:44 I recommend you go to http://www.cliki.net/vim 20:06:55 stassats: and if you're not feeling snarky? :P 20:07:14 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-22-31.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:07:31 Ralith: in that case I recommend Emacs 20:08:18 -!- Blkt` is now known as Blkt 20:12:31 Ralith: there are some lisp/vim devtools, but the amount of developer time gone into them is minuscule in comparison to eg. slime 20:12:37 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:13:05 nikodemus: yeah, but people who've spent 15 years learning vim aren't about to switch gears on a whim. 20:13:17 Ralith: sure 20:14:27 http://www.xach.com/img/lisp-and-vim.png # we're still looking for the people in that intersection to build the perfect lisp/vim integration 20:14:38 there are addons for vim with cl-stuff 20:14:55 maybe get used to use them ? 20:15:03 if you don't want to switch ? 20:15:40 Ralith: i don't buy this argument 20:16:02 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:16:12 because you can say that about lisp as well 20:16:32 -!- Edward [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-9-170.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:16:52 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.55.238] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:17:45 nikodemus: er, vim can be extended in script these days, I'm pretty sure 20:18:03 Ralith: i know that 20:18:16 Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 20:18:27 the C programming is a red herring in that picture 20:18:31 yes. 20:18:36 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 20:18:41 yep 20:19:30 the fact remains that there are a lot more emacs users willing to hack styff to get a common lisp environment that vim users willing to do the same 20:19:35 stuff, even 20:19:44 Ralith: What % of your development do you plan to spend on CL? 20:19:52 herbieB_: I use Slime. 20:19:59 I've got a friend who's very interested in CL, but vims. 20:20:01 Oh :P 20:20:11 Ok...what % of dev do THEY plan to do? 20:20:14 And what size of projects? 20:20:17 anyways, there is http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=2219 # but looking at the feature set this looks like a pretty poor substitute for slime 20:20:18 unknowable 20:20:22 they're just interested for now 20:20:38 I switched from vim to emacs because of CL 20:20:49 What % of features of vim do they use? 20:20:51 nikodemus: yeah, that's what I've pointed him at; it's better than nothing. 20:20:55 CL is so uninteresting with a proper IDE 20:21:06 without 20:21:11 herbieB_: he's been using it for almost 15 years, so probably a lot 20:21:35 That may not be true. I know people who have been using vim/vi for 25 years who don't use features like the tabbing feature, lots of : commands 20:21:44 And so something like viper mode is more than enough 20:21:53 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:21:53 Ralith: this seems to have had more recent love http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=2531 20:22:21 and a more reasonable feature set 20:22:44 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:23:37 At any rate, if he wants a turnkey solution, then he needs to go with slime. If he's willing to be constantly debugging why the plugin is not doing what he'd like, then a vim script might be ok 20:25:03 -!- atomx [~user@92.81.118.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:26:04 wuj [~wuj@pool-74-108-204-117.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:10 herbieB_: to be fair Tamas seems to be updating slimv pretty regularly -- so i would not judge its quality sight unseen 20:28:35 problems crop up with slime as well, particularly when people do strange stuff -- which newbies excel at :) 20:28:51 slimv works pretty well yeah 20:29:00 i've been using it for slightly more than a month, and I like it 20:29:09 OliverUv_: you need to blog about it! 20:29:23 and tell Xach so we can get it on planet.lisp.org 20:29:46 naaaw 20:29:54 yeeessss 20:30:19 there isn't much to say "i used it it worked well, when it didn't i filed a bug report" 20:30:48 lisp tools race? 20:32:50 OliverUv_: still, a feature overview, and "hey, this exists" would be really neat 20:32:50 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-226-26.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:32:54 nikodemus: that does look more alive, thanks 20:33:09 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 20:33:25 OliverUv_: yeah, more PR for it would be great 20:33:28 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-226-26.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 20:34:03 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:34:16 emacs is like parenthesis, you grow to like it 20:34:51 lol 20:35:24 any way for you to include only one post from one blog on planet lisp then? Xach? 20:35:30 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.68] has joined #lisp 20:35:46 I could write up a short post about it on the blog i used as a project log for my supervisors to read 20:36:06 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has joined #lisp 20:36:36 OliverUv_: it's common practice for blogs to summarise/link posts on other blogs 20:37:13 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:38:28 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@189.66.15.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:38:41 What CL toolkit(-bindings) would you recommend? 20:39:14 none 20:39:26 None? 20:39:49 So if you need widgets in a CL program, you stuffed? 20:39:52 if you're willing to pay, CAPI 20:40:03 free software 20:40:06 only 20:40:08 aidalgol: no, you're not, i'm just unwilling to recommend any 20:40:15 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:40:16 -!- centos-user-az1 [~nurlan@94.20.67.232] has left #lisp 20:40:17 lol 20:40:22 just make a list of unrecommendations =p 20:40:31 super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 20:40:48 stassats: heh :) 20:41:18 All the ones listed on CLiki look... abandoned. 20:41:30 i'm working on making commonqt better, maybe sometime later i will be able to recommend it 20:42:06 but, if you're adventurous, are not afraid of bugs and c++, you can try it 20:44:50 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@pD9E27F4F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:46:41 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 20:47:28 c++ is pretty scary ._. 20:47:48 depending on what you're looking for, mcclim might be totally wrong or mostly-ok 20:48:07 some people report success with cl-gkt2 or clg, i think 20:48:15 ltk has its users 20:48:46 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:48:53 -!- super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:49:39 nuba_ [~nuba@pauleira.com] has joined #lisp 20:49:44 -!- minion [~minion@common-lisp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:49:44 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@130.208.131.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:49:45 -!- nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:50:51 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-246-9-211.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:51:05 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.68] has quit [Quit: class] 20:51:48 -!- jweiss [~weissj@cpe-069-134-025-078.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:52:04 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 20:52:16 -!- Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Planned down time ^^] 20:54:57 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 20:55:05 how's mcclim's gtk frontend coming? 20:55:20 jweiss [~weissj@cpe-069-134-025-078.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:55:28 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:56:14 it's not 20:58:02 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 20:59:45 or write your app as a web service (-: 21:00:08 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-78-36-207.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:00:12 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-78-36-207.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:00:14 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:00:14 nowadays, web browsers can almost do more (and more easily) than you can in native ui libs 21:00:42 faux` [~user@109.58.88.66.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 21:00:50 drag & drop with media types, animated transitions, all that stuff 21:01:06 but is it fast? 21:01:21 what is fast? 21:01:36 browsers as an UI 21:01:48 I mean, how do you define fast? 21:02:06 it's not noticeably 21:02:06 I've seen web apps load and redisplay more quickly than qt apps on my mac, so I suppose (: 21:02:13 Is there any lisp (NO C involved) vector and matrix calculation library? I just tried GSLL and I'M NOT GOING to use that! 21:02:14 noticeable 21:02:33 maxima? 21:03:12 It took me about an hour to even find hos to calculate exponentials with complex values. But I still didnät find how can I simply do SCALAR * COMPLEX VECTOR 21:03:12 peterhil: well, there are libraries that wrap fortran code, if that works better for you. 21:03:13 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has quit [Quit: Want lisppaste in your channel? Email lisppaste-requests AT common-lisp.net.] 21:03:33 stassats, pkhuong: Thanks, maybe I'll try those. 21:04:14 homie [~user@xdsl-87-78-36-207.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:04:20 lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:28 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-78-36-207.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:04:42 Well, actually the no C invlolved is not strictly a requirement, but I'm not going to use simple C library wrappers like GSLL. 21:05:06 but they still wrap the same libraries. Seems to me your problem is with having to learn BLAS. 21:05:27 btbngr [~btbgnr@212.183.140.16] has joined #lisp 21:05:34 I vaguely remember a "graphical terminal" or "graphical repl" written with mcclim, I assume. Does anyone know what I'm thinking of? 21:06:25 Sorry. The BLAS is a standard, and everyone learns to speak it. IIUC, you want to scale a vector; that's scal. And you want to scale a vector of complex (doubles?) that'd be zscal. 21:06:36 rpx__ [~rpx@9-36.4-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 21:07:08 Quadrescence: mcclim-listener 21:07:28 hum de dum. Does mcclim compile/install relatively easily? 21:07:42 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:07:44 Quadrescence: it does with quicklisp (: 21:07:46 yes, with quicklisp 21:07:49 and with clbuild, I suppose 21:07:54 (but I haven't tested recently) 21:07:59 hey this is a good time to try quicklisp since i haven't yet tried it 21:07:59 Hi, I am trying to use buildapp (Xach's program), if I want to use the .asd file that are in .sbcl/system --- how do I do that? 21:08:05 minion [~minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 21:08:53 pkhuong: I have been using Ruby's NArray and Python's NumPy, and they seem to have much more elegant strides and broadcasting of scalars to vectors. Does BLAS have anything like that? 21:09:05 Ie. they are much nicer to use. 21:09:52 And they also broadcast vectors to matrices. 21:11:18 -!- drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:11:38 specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 21:12:31 Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-246-5-254.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:25 pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.197.39] has joined #lisp 21:14:30 Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:15:13 peterhil: I believe liamh and tamas k papp are working on that sort of thing. I think it's in the plans for later version of GSLL, for instance. 21:17:19 ustreamer-369 [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 21:17:23 -!- red1ynx [~Dzmitry@91.149.140.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:18:01 dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 21:19:50 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 21:20:06 drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 21:24:12 -!- faux` [~user@109.58.88.66.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:26:04 -!- hun [~hun@95-89-69-55-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:26:51 TheLolrus [~Xarver@76.175.244.227] has joined #lisp 21:27:38 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:27:59 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 21:30:37 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:30:37 oh lordy clim-listener has a lot of dependencies 21:31:02 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 21:31:20 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 21:33:57 -!- rpx__ [~rpx@9-36.4-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:34:17 pkhuong: Ok, cool. 21:34:26 the listener really reminds me of genera 21:36:30 jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-14-8.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:37:20 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:42:10 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 21:43:45 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:43:50 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:44:17 Quadrescence: I rather expect that genera didn't have quite the same behavior when you caused its REPL to signal an error, though. 21:45:28 Of course not. :) 21:46:37 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-14-8.iburst.co.za] has quit [Quit: Good night] 21:47:49 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:16 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 21:48:24 Xach: that quicklisp is dead sexy 21:48:51 trying to compress text with clisp's ZLIB, putting it into a literal string and trying to uncompress doesn't seem to work 21:49:17 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-202-208.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:49:37 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-202-208.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 21:49:52 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-228-159.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:52:34 oh, it's #\Return vs #\Newline 21:53:07 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-229-121.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:00:20 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050073011.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:00:46 and i can't figure how to solve this 22:01:09 elly [~elly@atheme/member/elly] has 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[~user@93-96-0-153.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:50:50 Hi guys 22:52:11 I'm attempting to rewrite the (loop) in this macro into a (dolist), but it doesn't work => (defmacro check (&body forms) `progn ,@(loop for f in forms collect `(report-result ,f ',f))) 22:52:35 *nyef* winces. 22:52:46 That can't be right. 22:52:49 adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-174-32.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:53:06 The `progn is a single form, and then you have a ,@ outside of a backquote. 22:53:15 Did you forget a level of parens? 22:53:18 arf 22:53:20 sorry 22:53:51 (defmacro check (&body forms) `(progn ,@(loop for f in forms collect `(report-result ,f ',f)))) 22:54:04 so far I've tried like this: 22:54:34 (defmacro check (&body forms) `(progn ,@(dolist (f forms) `(report-result ,f ',f)))) 22:54:36 -!- cmdrk [~comradek@WS1-DSL-74-83-33-212.fuse.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:54:41 Umm... And then you'd have to ,@(let ((foo nil)) (dolist (f forms) (push `(report-result ,f ',f) foo)) (nreverse foo)) 22:54:44 dolist doesn't collect forms 22:54:45 Or similar. 22:54:56 As stassats says, dolist doesn't do the collection bit. 22:54:59 ah 22:55:08 collect means it puts them into a list? 22:55:18 or rather "results" 22:55:18 Yes. 22:55:22 clhs loop 22:55:22 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_loop.htm 22:55:24 ok 22:55:28 ok 22:55:39 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-174-32.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:55:53 If you follow that link, then go up a couple levels, you'll find a chapter almost entirely about using LOOP. 22:55:55 etenil: http://paste.lisp.org/display/115646 22:55:58 timor [~timor@port-92-195-183-203.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 22:55:59 And, that said, I believe I need to disappear for a bit. 22:56:28 that's nice pjb 22:56:33 thanks 22:56:58 why do you reverse the result? 22:57:18 because push puts it on the front. 22:57:25 ah yes 22:57:28 I see 22:57:37 ok 22:57:52 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.197.39] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:57:57 looks nicer to me than the extended loop syntax :D 22:58:32 it does? hm 22:58:54 more lispy anyway 22:59:04 what's lispy? 22:59:12 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.235.211] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:59:19 with lots of parentheses :D 22:59:25 You could also have used mapcar: (defmacro check (&body forms) `(progn ,@(mapcar (lambda (f) `(report-result ,f ',f)) forms))) 22:59:43 ah, I haven't learned mapcar yet 22:59:51 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:00:01 or I don't remember it 23:00:02 *nyef* doesn't use mapcar very often, either. 23:00:21 Learn it soon. As you can see, it allows for a concise form too. 23:00:26 yes 23:00:38 i use mapcar when i need to pas only one argument to a function of a single argument 23:00:52 stassats: alexiandria:curry ! 23:00:58 thanks everyone 23:01:01 s/xi/x/) 23:01:09 -!- etenil [~user@93-96-0-153.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:01:43 pjb: i keep curry in the kitchen, not in the library 23:01:49 symbole_ [~user@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:02:34 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75542f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:03:18 Edward [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-48-240.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:10:25 -!- s1gma_ [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:10:41 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:12:56 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:18:42 kingless [~kingless@adsl-242-212-94.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 23:21:24 Okay, that's curry eaten, time to get back to work. 23:23:45 -!- kingless [~kingless@adsl-242-212-94.rmo.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:23:54 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:25:18 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@c-67-180-8-255.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 23:28:05 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has quit [Quit: rich_holygoat] 23:28:28 tama [~tama@pool-71-164-234-131.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:28:55 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@123.113.109.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:30:45 adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-174-32.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:30:53 ah I was wondering where the loop documentation was in CLHS 23:30:58 cheers nyef 23:31:53 Yes, under the charmingly misleadingly named "Iteration" chapter. 23:32:05 I always went straight to the symbol index 23:32:30 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:33:28 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:34:12 nyef: How is that misleading, exactly? 23:34:28 Odin-, I believe it was sarcasm 23:34:37 Ah. 23:34:52 Positively dripping with it, hehe 23:35:03 the grammar at clhs loop is useful too 23:35:07 *nyef* goes and gets a mop. 23:35:08 *Odin-* goes to get a replacement sarcast-o-meter; his current one seems to be broken. 23:35:28 nyef: sb-mop? 23:36:02 Umm... No, I don't think that that sort of MOP would be good for cleaning up dripping sarcasm. 23:36:19 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:37:41 -!- andreas [~andreas@pD4B9E510.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:38:10 night all, watch you don't slip on that dripping nyef 23:38:21 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@cpc11-belf9-2-0-cust855.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:38:22 Damn, who would have thought documenting a non-trivial library properly would take so long. No longer most open-source projects have shitty documentation ;P 23:38:41 Uh, I mean, "No wonder" 23:41:33 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: Zzzzz...] 23:41:35 No wonder commercial projects have to pay people to write their documentation... And not even the same people they pay to write the software, as if it's two different skillsets involved. 23:41:38 sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has joined #lisp 23:42:15 that's why i don't write it, because nobody pays me 23:42:50 Well, I used to not write it and not care. But I want to Properly Release my stuff to the world. 23:43:18 I've quite some few superb gems to extract out of my big pile of steaming shit. 23:44:43 nanowrimo is coming, maybe use it to write documentation 23:45:08 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-246-5-254.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:45:08 Critique my documentation style: http://github.com/Hexstream/linkval/blob/cleanup/rewrite.lisp 23:45:19 Hey, there you go! I'd forgotten about nanowrimo. 23:45:49 Hexstream: i don't like documentation in comments at the beginning of a source file 23:46:36 nyef: so did i 23:47:20 Well, I don't like documentation anywhere. But I'm thinking it has better chance of keeping in sync with the code if it's really close... Also, I don't want to make the expense of making a website or PDF document or whatnot just yet. 23:47:23 i thought about participating if had an idea, but i have no yet 23:47:23 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:47:57 hmm did you use a formatter like roff to generate those nice paragraphs and sections? Otherwise I assume it'd be quite tedious 23:48:18 outline-mode? 23:48:21 phadthai: Hum. I use emacs' M-q... 23:48:25 ok 23:49:51 Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-250-26-199.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:49:58 Hexstream: I've been finding that Literate Programming is at least not all wrong. 23:50:17 The tools that I've found thus far are pretty bad, but... 23:50:27 but you'd better have an editor which supports it 23:50:46 emacs? 23:51:40 how is it called in emacs? 23:52:02 I found that org-mode has a nicely freewheeling style for managing the creation process, but as soon as you start trying to get actual /code/ out of org-babel it turns into a pile of crap. 23:54:12 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-174-32.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 23:55:23 -!- jweiss [~weissj@cpe-069-134-025-078.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:56:11 nyef, beach: I implemented that iso:8601 trick here http://github.com/gigamonkey/utilities/blob/master/with-time.lisp 23:56:32 adu [~ajr@pool-71-191-174-32.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:57:44 is there a way to coherce a class slot to a certain type? 23:58:23 Blkt: You could write an :after initialize-instance method. 23:58:58 to check the types? 23:59:18 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:59:23 (defmethod initialize-instance :after ((object my-class) &key my-slot) (setf (slot-value object 'my-slot) (my-coerce my-slot))) 23:59:28 gigamonkey: fwiw, you don't have to export :|8601|