00:00:11 oortbot [~oortbot@c-68-32-54-29.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:00:12 schmrkc: yeah, it's fun... and somehow strange how lispers write their own stuff even if there's already something else out there that would work just as well... often (I suppose out of personal experience) it's because you'd like to know how things work. 00:00:40 (e.g. collision detection) 00:00:41 jtza8: I think it is just as common in other languages 00:00:55 or because that something else isn't working 00:01:10 schmrkc: Really, in Python? 00:01:21 jtza8: I have never used python so I wouldn't know. 00:01:32 jtza8: It sure is as common in the C world anyway. 00:01:32 and is written by someones left foot 00:02:05 jtza8: do a search for C++ 3d game engine or something. you'll find about 12345123 of them 00:02:22 stassats: Yeah :) 00:02:34 i would use something if it has clean code, clean api, clean documentation and if it's working 00:02:34 schmrkc: I suppose you're right. 00:02:53 -!- TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-76-175-244-227.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:03:05 stassats: ... or is something that you need, but you can't re-write. 00:03:21 "can't" ? 00:03:33 maybe "can't be bothered to" :) 00:03:33 before a deadline 00:03:41 oh that would also work. 00:03:43 before i'm 70 00:03:49 and your memory goes bad 00:04:13 -!- oortbot [~oortbot@c-68-32-54-29.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:04:51 Oh well, good night :) 00:04:56 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.16.4] has left #lisp 00:04:57 nite 00:05:03 i can probably write many things in 50 years 00:10:07 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:11:01 -!- qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has quit [Quit: qbomb] 00:11:23 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:12:45 -!- davazp [~user@201.Red-88-6-206.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:14:04 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@c-67-180-8-255.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 00:16:56 mattrepl [~mattrepl@c-67-180-8-255.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:17:54 lemoinem [~swoog@240-85-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 00:18:22 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 00:18:49 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 00:20:15 sangho [~root@211.172.21.194] has joined #lisp 00:22:28 -!- kuwabara [~kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:23:57 kuwabara [~kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.eu] has joined #lisp 00:24:04 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-230-225.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:25:03 I am probably confused, but is there a way to unread-byte? better yet, peek-byte for an stream '(unsigned-byte 8) element type? 00:25:27 how come character streams get all the fun stuff 00:25:38 bitsurge [~bitsurge@S01060004e24ffe41.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 00:25:47 or do I have to layer something over gray streams? 00:25:47 -!- bitsurge [~bitsurge@S01060004e24ffe41.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:26:06 clhs unread-byte 00:26:06 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for unread-byte. 00:26:15 Nope, just chars? 00:26:16 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:26:20 yeah 00:26:28 you can move file-position 00:26:39 stassats: you the man! 00:26:51 which you can't do with chars, since they can be of variable length 00:27:14 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:27:17 right now I have (let ((peek)) (defun read-octet ..) (defun unread-octet ..)) both of which take the peek value if it's not nil 00:27:40 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:28:30 (defun unread-octet (file) 00:28:32 (file-position file (1- (file-position file)))) 00:28:41 silliest snippet of the day :-P 00:29:03 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 00:29:21 needs an unless zerop somewhere 00:29:56 (file-position file (min (1- (file-position file)) 0)) 00:30:30 even better, since file-position can return NIL 00:31:06 errr 00:32:13 yes 00:32:44 well, if it returns NIL, what should it really do? 00:32:46 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:33:04 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@c-67-180-8-255.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 00:33:11 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050066057.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 00:34:35 got it 00:35:34 wedgeV [~wedge@cpe-24-193-117-17.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:35:43 timack [~tim@hlfx64-2a-231.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 00:35:57 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.55.35] has joined #lisp 00:39:22 fusss: You might want to have a look at flexi-streams. It has enhanced support for byte streams, such as, if I recall correctly, unread-byte. It also has a host of other fun features. http://weitz.de/flexi-streams/ It's made by Edi Weitz and it's used in production as part of Hunchentoot, among other things... 00:39:22 -!- kuwabara [~kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:39:43 and... it's slow 00:40:23 Hexstream: yes, I am fully away of flexi-streams; I also heavily use Zach's bit-stream.lisp, which I shaved off of Salza2. But I am trying to keep things manageable, debugging a binary protocol and need to understand everything 00:40:30 kuwabara [~kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.com] has joined #lisp 00:40:37 That's possible, I have never written actually performance-critical code. Though I spend a lot of time worrying about macro-optimisation and sometimes even micro-optimisation issues (I should just learn to use a profiler...) 00:41:14 macro-optimisation are the ones you do with macros? 00:41:34 if anybody is interested, JDWP is a fun thing to hack on. You can drive Android from Lisp, over socket commands :-) 00:42:09 No, things like the general architecture and how it affects speed. In particular, I like to take a compilation approach. Like, making a DSL that captures the high-level semantics of what I do and then compiling some representation of "code" as objects into closures. 00:42:58 optimization is for people who are out of ideas 00:43:09 hehe 00:43:20 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.2.85] has joined #lisp 00:45:17 I'm getting this warning in IOLib "Warning: FD 4 is invalid, cannot monitor it."  any idea what that is? I imagine it has something to do with (iomux:set-io-handler *multiplexer* (sockets:socket-os-fd socket) :write (socket-writer socket)), but I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong. 00:45:28 fe[nl]ix? 00:46:46 Maybe it's been closed since you took the FD? 00:46:48 sellout: that typically occurs when you unmonitor an FD after closing it 00:47:12 epoll_ctl returns EBADF, because close implicitly removes the FD from the pollset 00:47:14 -!- _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:48:25 how can i start learning lisp? there is so many dialect 00:48:33 thanks guys  I gotta run, but I'll look at it when I get back. 00:48:36 xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-248-234.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:49:45 sangho: Choose one. I think most introductory are very implementation-agnostic anyway 00:49:49 phaer [~phaer@chello080108090109.9.11.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 00:50:01 Umm, introductory _books_ 00:50:25 i think sangho was asking about dialects, not implementations 00:50:39 minion: please tell sangho about PCL 00:50:40 sangho: have a look at PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 00:51:02 Thank you 00:51:08 all 00:51:20 Oh, well in that case, this channel is about Common Lisp; if you want information about other dialects look elsewhere ;) 00:51:36 okay. 00:51:49 or just don't look and stick with CL 00:51:54 :D 00:52:03 minion: tell sangho about the gentle book 00:52:04 sangho: please stop playing with me... i am not a toy 00:52:29 minion, what it means? 00:52:30 Incidently Tenth 00:52:39 Kaer [b@c-2fcce253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 00:52:41 sangho: here is a very basic book http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 00:53:04 minion: gentle 00:53:05 gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 00:53:30 ah... it's a irc bot.. lol 00:53:51 minion: Are you a bot? 00:53:52 i'm not a bot. i prefer the term ``electronically composed''. 00:54:08 good 00:54:10 minion: am i a bot? 00:54:10 i'm not a bot. i prefer the term ``electronically composed''. 00:54:21 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:54:34 hmm 00:54:45 this is the best AI in 2010 has to offer? 00:54:51 :) 00:55:07 haha 00:55:14 funny 00:55:35 Very little maintenance has been done on minion over the past couple of years. 00:55:36 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:55:54 And it was never seriously intended as an AI project, AFAIK. 00:59:59 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:02:41 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@cpe-24-193-117-17.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 01:04:28 maybe hook it up with some of that java jchord and so it self-optimizes 01:05:49 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu348.queens.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:07:03 It'd be far more interesting if it grew itself some notion of IRC connection management. 01:07:31 But, not a topic for me right now. 01:07:40 I'm going to bed. 01:07:44 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-178-106.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 01:12:25 -!- drdo` [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:12:28 nite nyef 01:13:17 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.55.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:14:19 phrixos [~user@bs0176.nerc-bas.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 01:14:33 ice_man [~user@CPE001195074637-CM001a66704e52.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 01:18:33 -!- Koven is now known as Kovensky 01:24:43 The_Jon_Smith [~The_Jon_S@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:30:51 -!- phaer [~phaer@chello080108090109.9.11.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:38:26 -!- phrixos [~user@bs0176.nerc-bas.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:41:33 rabite_ [~project@dslb-084-063-042-179.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 01:42:53 -!- rabite [~project@dslb-084-063-005-050.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:43:39 sharps [~user@ip-118-90-124-109.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 01:45:04 -!- yates [~yates@nc-76-3-105-199.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:47:00 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A4427.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:50:21 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 01:54:10 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-236-50.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 01:58:49 yates [~yates@nc-76-3-105-199.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 02:02:19 Xach: quicklisp looks really good 02:04:17 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:04:41 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@v254-045.vps.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 02:04:51 sharps` [~user@ip-118-90-124-109.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 02:06:24 TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-76-175-244-227.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:06:56 BrandLeeJones_ [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 02:07:02 -!- BrandLeeJones_ [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:07:14 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@v254-045.vps.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:07:37 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@v254-045.vps.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 02:08:28 -!- sharps [~user@ip-118-90-124-109.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:10:16 leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has joined #lisp 02:12:12 ok, FINALLY got weblocks installed (thank you Xach for quicklisp!) and ran weblocks-demo 02:12:21 why is the server so slow? 02:12:46 also, how can this be setup with no root privileges? 02:12:46 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:13:01 m4dnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 02:13:37 what, everyone had a date tonight? 02:14:29 I don't hear too much weblocks discussion here. 02:14:50 austinh: yeah - i just realized there's an irc group 02:16:53 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 02:20:48 -!- humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:21:12 -!- ice_man [~user@CPE001195074637-CM001a66704e52.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:21:35 srcerer_ [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 02:21:42 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-236-50.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Error: do not makunbound t please!] 02:22:05 _3b`` [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:23:20 moocow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 02:24:27 Ralith_ [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:24:36 lonstein_ [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #lisp 02:24:36 setheus_ [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:25:20 -!- srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:25:20 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:25:20 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:25:20 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:25:20 -!- lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:25:20 -!- svk_ [~kaw@svk.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:25:21 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:25:21 -!- sangho [~root@211.172.21.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:25:21 -!- gnooth [~gnooth@ip98-176-79-151.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:25:21 -!- incandenza [~djm@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:25:21 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:25:21 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:25:21 -!- specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:25:21 -!- katofiad [~k2t0f12d@121.98.185.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:25:22 -!- Hraban [~user@78-22-147-148.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:25:22 -!- _3b` [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:25:22 svk_ [~kaw@svk.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 02:25:22 gnooth_ [~gnooth@ip98-176-79-151.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:25:25 incanden1a [~djm@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:25:50 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 02:25:52 katofiad [~k2t0f12d@121.98.185.20] has joined #lisp 02:25:54 Hraban [~user@78-22-147-148.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 02:26:00 sangho [~root@211.172.21.194] has joined #lisp 02:26:03 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 02:26:46 mattrepl [~mattrepl@c-67-180-8-255.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:27:58 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 02:28:27 -!- timack [~tim@hlfx64-2a-231.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:31:48 -!- younder [~jthing@124.202.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:33:52 felideon [~felideon@adsl-64-126-232.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:34:03 gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:34:53 hmmm 02:35:35 hi fusss 02:35:35 *fusss* tips hat to sbcl devs on the superior numeric implementation 02:35:43 hey felideon 02:35:46 long time :) 02:37:09 felideon: what are you talking about; didn't we just tweet a few days ago? 02:37:26 you're BigThingist/mahmud? lol 02:37:31 yeah 02:37:44 ah hehehe didn't know :) 02:37:50 now you do 02:37:56 indeed 02:38:41 brb 02:41:07 -!- incanden1a is now known as incandenza 02:43:16 sbcl is really one smart puppy 02:45:20 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:47:38 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:48:07 fusss: But competition is awesome too. gb recently opened an arithmetic branch for CCL (10/12/10). Presumably it's for 1.7 since 1.6 is due around the end of the month. :) 02:48:07 -!- dys [~andreas@krlh-5f726709.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:48:29 dys [~andreas@krlh-5f73726d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 02:48:52 redline6561: competition is good. 02:50:47 anyone finds the output of describe in sbcl much nicer than ccl's? 02:51:13 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:51:20 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: nighty night] 02:52:11 leo2007: Haven't checked recently. Too busy seeing through SLIME-colored glasses. :P 02:56:57 -!- jpd [~jpd@pine.noqsi.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:57:14 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 03:00:27 I meant the output of 'C-c C-d C-d'. 03:01:22 -!- srolls [~user@c-76-126-221-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:03:20 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-120-181.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 03:03:36 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 03:06:21 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:06:43 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 03:06:44 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:06:47 -!- LiamH [~liam@pool-141-156-214-211.washdc.east.verizon.net] has left #lisp 03:07:26 BrandLeeJones_ [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 03:07:48 -!- BrandLeeJones_ [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Client Quit] 03:09:48 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@v254-045.vps.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:17:27 necroforest [~jarred@pool-96-249-147-66.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:26:06 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:27:59 -!- felideon [~felideon@adsl-64-126-232.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:28:43 devslashnull [~james@220-253-105-132.TAS.netspace.net.au] has joined #lisp 03:29:17 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:32:40 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:38:18 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:40:08 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:40:44 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 03:45:46 jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 03:47:25 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-205-127.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 03:49:14 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-13-102.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:52:41 sharps`` [~user@ip-118-90-124-109.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 03:54:04 -!- jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:55:53 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 03:55:58 -!- sharps` [~user@ip-118-90-124-109.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:56:46 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:59:23 -!- sharps`` [~user@ip-118-90-124-109.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:00:01 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-22-182.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:00:59 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-19-221.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 04:01:23 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@c-67-180-8-255.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 04:01:31 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:04:07 m801 [~user@wsip-72-214-25-53.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:04:42 -!- m801 [~user@wsip-72-214-25-53.sd.sd.cox.net] has left #lisp 04:09:12 ska` [~user@ppp-58-11-97-82.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 04:22:41 Good morning everyone! 04:29:24 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:34:19 CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 04:38:33 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE00222d128ba2-CM00222d128b9e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:41:37 Morning beach! How's SICL going? 04:43:06 nowl [~nowl@c-66-30-78-234.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:43:07 redline6561: Fine! The past week I spent thinking about memory management, but I was thinking of making some progress on the sequences module this weekend. 04:43:48 beach: Excellent. :) 04:43:50 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:44:04 redline6561: What are you working on? 04:44:54 beach: Right now just reading code and/or papers and bed. My main project was paktahn for a while. A package management helper for Archlinux. 04:45:07 beach: Lately I'm learning about web development and playing with Weblocks. 04:45:30 Sounds like fun! 04:46:37 There's always more to learn...but that's one of the reasons I got into computers to begin with. 04:46:39 :P 04:47:03 Anyway, all for now. Good night lispers! 04:47:11 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:47:11 'night redline6561! 04:56:00 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:58:24 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-33-132.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 05:00:15 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-55-111.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:01:51 -!- necroforest [~jarred@pool-96-249-147-66.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:06:15 -!- Adrinael [~adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:10:01 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 05:10:35 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:10:55 Adrinael [~adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has joined #lisp 05:11:37 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 05:11:46 psilord [~psilord@71.150.251.181] has joined #lisp 05:11:47 -!- psilord [~psilord@71.150.251.181] has left #lisp 05:14:22 what do I do if I want to use CASE but with multiple matches? 05:14:49 a la C's switch statement with multiple cases sharing a singe side effect 05:15:15 switch (foo) { case 'a': case 'A': print ("Aye"); break; } . 05:15:39 I could use COND with MEMBER .. 05:16:33 and member does take :test, so we're in business 05:16:49 <_3b> (case foo ((#\a #\A) ...)) ? 05:17:29 I be .. 05:17:45 thanks _3b :-) 05:18:25 derrida [~derrida@unaffiliated/deleuze] has joined #lisp 05:20:04 -!- mulander [mulander@078088239019.lubin.vectranet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:23:03 I'm getting an unhandled memory fault error when i try to run my code in a thread with bordeaux threads. The code runs fine outside of a thread though. 05:27:23 ah, i was using (bt:make-thread #'function) .. (bt:make-thread (function)) works fine. my bad :) 05:29:02 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:30:30 spoke too soon .. that runs but not in a thread ^ 05:31:24 derrida: #'function should work fine  it's a zero-arg function? 05:31:43 derrida: function isn't a variable, is it? 05:31:54 derrida: Maybe lisp-paste? 05:32:03 minion: lisp-paste? 05:32:04 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``lisp-paste''. 05:32:04 sellout: it's actually "start" and no not a variable 05:32:18 minion: lisppaste 05:32:26 i'll paste :) 05:32:27 Hrmm  05:32:35 hohum [dcorbe@apollo.corbe.net] has joined #lisp 05:38:01 skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #lisp 05:40:44 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 05:44:12 -!- leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:45:33 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:47:11 -!- Ralith_ is now known as Ralith 05:53:20 -!- devslashnull [~james@220-253-105-132.TAS.netspace.net.au] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.1] 05:55:38 mulander [mulander@078088239019.lubin.vectranet.pl] has joined #lisp 05:56:16 -!- incandenza [~djm@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:56:43 incandenza [~djm@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:58:42 lisppaste: url? 06:00:10 minion: lisppaste? 06:00:11 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-205-127.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:00:20 minion: tell us about lisppaste 06:01:06 Strange... 06:06:42 -!- ska` [~user@ppp-58-11-97-82.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:07:04 and I thought Amnesiac was a freebsd release 06:08:53 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:10:47 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 06:11:09 iaindalton [~user@host-72-174-169-239.cdc-ut.client.bresnan.net] has joined #lisp 06:11:41 -!- TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-76-175-244-227.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:12:59 I installed iterate (my first package) with asdf-install, and made a minimal test file (http://paste.lisp.org/display/115599), but it doesn't recognize iter. What am I missing? 06:14:26 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-161-186.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 06:14:50 Probably packages. 06:15:22 Type: (apropos "ITER") 06:15:48 iter is probably a symbol in some package, perhaps named iterate. So you would have to refer to it as (iterate:iter ...). 06:16:01 Or you may use that package: (use-package :iterate) 06:16:03 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:16:38 Have a look at http://www.flownet.com/gat/packages.pdf 06:21:37 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 06:23:15 It was http://common-lisp.net/project/iterate/ where I got those first two lines. I read the PDF. If use-package is the thing, what's require? 06:24:20 When I replace that with (use-package 'iterate), I get the error "The name ITERATE does not designate any package." 06:24:41 You need both. 06:25:13 require loads the code. use-package makes it unnecessary to use package prefix when referring to symbols in the iterate package. 06:27:49 -!- ustreamer-369 [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:28:11 ustreamer-369 [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 06:28:50 progress; now I get USE-PACKAGE # causes name-conflicts in # between the following symbols: ITERATE:ITERATE, COMMON-LISP-USER::ITERATE 06:29:18 iaindalton: yes, that's ebcause you already have interned symbols with the same name in cl-user. 06:29:24 You can override them using the right restart. 06:29:33 In clisp, you'd type :r1 RET 06:30:29 why would there be matching symbols? 06:30:58 -!- PascalHunger [~user@65.60.128.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:31:04 iaindalton: You attempted to use a symbol such as iter by typing it. When you typ it, it gets interned in the current package. 06:31:15 *type 06:31:18 ska` [~user@ppp-58-11-97-82.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 06:31:44 but I'm running this file with sbcl --script, so it shouldn't have any record of that 06:32:21 PascalHunger [~user@d60-65-84-128.col.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 06:33:09 Perhaps you load some code of yours containing such a symbol before you do a use-package? 06:34:03 sharps [~hazel@ip-118-90-124-109.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:34:23 I could be doing this wrong, but I have very little code: http://paste.lisp.org/display/115600 06:36:21 Krystof [~csr21@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 06:37:02 -!- ustreamer-369 [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:37:26 ustreamer-369 [~ustreamer@softbank221084032214.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 06:37:40 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 06:39:16 iaindalton: try replacing 'iterate by :itereate in require and use-package. 06:39:42 ianmcorvidae: The fact that you typed 'iterate created a symbol in cl-user by the name of iterate, and when you then try to use-package, there is a name conflict 06:41:19 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.33.72] has joined #lisp 06:41:21 -!- intchanter [~intchante@c-174-52-141-98.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:41:45 beach: that did it. I was copying that from the manual :-( 06:41:58 hazel_ [~hazel@ip-118-90-124-109.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:42:20 ianmcorvidae: Did the manual have use-package in it? 06:44:03 This page (http://common-lisp.net/project/iterate/) had only require and this manual (http://common-lisp.net/project/iterate/doc/index.html) had only use-package :| 06:44:18 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:45:23 They assume you know how to use the package system. 06:45:33 -!- sharps [~hazel@ip-118-90-124-109.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:47:08 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.33.72] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 06:47:35 Yeah; I've read the PDF a few times but it doesn't mention require, so I don't know how that fits, and it's more complicated than C, Python, or Java AFAICT 06:49:22 Everything is complicated if you don't know how to do it. The C manual doesn't mention "make", and if you don't know it, you'll get into the same kind of trouble. 06:51:02 -!- PascalHunger [~user@d60-65-84-128.col.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:51:25 PascalHunger [~user@d60-65-84-128.col.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 06:53:28 I am only an egg 06:55:15 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 07:01:09 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 07:02:37 daniel__ [~daniel@p5B327231.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:03:16 -!- iaindalton [~user@host-72-174-169-239.cdc-ut.client.bresnan.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.50.1] 07:04:09 -!- hazel_ is now known as sharps 07:06:00 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5B327195.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:07:02 -!- sharps [~hazel@ip-118-90-124-109.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:13:31 leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has joined #lisp 07:19:10 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:20:28 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-97-98.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:22:43 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:28:21 humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 07:29:43 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:32:27 pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-60-2.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:38:02 -!- Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-bfgnwgnaubfbigxd] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:38:49 -!- nowl [~nowl@c-66-30-78-234.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:40:57 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 07:41:59 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 07:42:02 xan_ [~xan@211-000-133-196.jp.fiberbit.net] has joined #lisp 07:42:06 -!- PascalHunger [~user@d60-65-84-128.col.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:42:31 PascalHunger [~user@d60-65-84-128.col.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 07:48:26 -!- dys [~andreas@krlh-5f73726d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:49:59 jpd [~jpd@pine.noqsi.com] has joined #lisp 07:51:13 -!- sangho [~root@211.172.21.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:51:48 sharps [~user@ip-118-90-124-109.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 07:53:56 sharps` [~user@ip-118-90-124-109.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 07:54:40 -!- xinming [~hyy@115.223.128.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:55:05 dys [~andreas@krlh-5f73726d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:55:24 -!- jpd [~jpd@pine.noqsi.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:56:02 xinming [~hyy@115.223.131.195] has joined #lisp 07:57:38 -!- sharps [~user@ip-118-90-124-109.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:01:48 -!- xinming [~hyy@115.223.131.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:02:27 xinming [~hyy@115.223.131.195] has joined #lisp 08:04:50 -!- sharps` is now known as sharps 08:05:50 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 08:06:28 ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has joined #lisp 08:10:54 -!- xinming [~hyy@115.223.131.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:12:00 xinming [~hyy@115.223.131.195] has joined #lisp 08:13:52 -!- PascalHunger [~user@d60-65-84-128.col.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:14:03 sharps` [~user@ip-118-90-124-109.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 08:14:18 PascalHunger [~user@d60-65-84-128.col.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 08:15:37 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 08:16:22 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 08:17:40 -!- sharps [~user@ip-118-90-124-109.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:18:08 -!- sharps` is now known as sharps 08:19:06 tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:21:47 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:21:58 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 08:28:46 Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-hcwhxxiiafamfoaz] has joined #lisp 08:32:55 Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 08:36:10 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-53-82-65-61-141.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:40:49 sharps` [~user@ip-118-90-124-109.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 08:43:02 dbrunner [~user@p4FF773AE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:44:43 -!- sharps [~user@ip-118-90-124-109.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:50:08 -!- sharps` is now known as sharps 08:51:12 sharps` [~user@ip-118-90-124-109.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 08:51:17 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 08:51:20 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-54-82-251-115-225.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 08:51:21 x 08:52:38 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 08:55:08 -!- sharps [~user@ip-118-90-124-109.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:57:00 -!- PascalHunger [~user@d60-65-84-128.col.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:57:27 PascalHunger [~user@d60-65-84-128.col.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 09:09:31 sharps`` [~user@ip-118-90-124-109.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 09:11:33 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:12:01 afternoon 09:13:28 -!- sharps` [~user@ip-118-90-124-109.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:13:46 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 09:20:12 -!- sharps`` is now known as sharps 09:23:48 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu185.queens.ox.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 09:24:43 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:35:23 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-169-124.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 09:37:35 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 09:43:29 Anyone familiar with hunchentoot know a way to get the form submit button value? (For multiple submit buttons)? 09:44:52 *dbrunner* not. 09:48:13 andreas [~andreas@p579F86F7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:49:09 Soulman1 [~knute@159.80-202-237.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 09:50:12 lij [~lij@125.119.8.198] has joined #lisp 09:53:56 -!- lij [~lij@125.119.8.198] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:55:07 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 09:57:04 H4ns`` [~user@pD4B9E7E0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:00:20 -!- H4ns` [~user@p579F895A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:01:52 cl-irc [~cl-irc@c-d181e555.09-137-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 10:02:52 Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050069089.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:02:54 -!- leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:07:09 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-84-44-140-231.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:07:10 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-84-44-140-231.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:07:25 wbooze` [~user@xdsl-213-168-95-3.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:07:27 -!- cl-irc [~cl-irc@c-d181e555.09-137-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:07:37 homie` [~user@xdsl-213-168-95-3.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:08:08 sharps` [~user@ip-118-90-124-109.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:08:26 Yuuhi [benni@p5483BA90.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:09:42 hi, does anybody has got clsql running on ccl and windows vista? 10:10:03 are you having problems? 10:11:34 yeah 10:11:48 -!- sharps [~user@ip-118-90-124-109.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:11:56 i got an error when loading the clsql_uffi.dll 10:12:22 "Couldn't load foreignlibrary "clsql_uffi") 10:13:02 i tried to find the problem and ended using the ccl:open-shared-library function and that function leads to the same error too. 10:13:14 but the error message is not really helpful 10:13:35 do you have "clsql_uffi.dll" file? 10:13:38 dbrunner: is the clsql_uffi.dll there? 10:13:45 echo :) 10:14:08 yeah 10:14:11 it's there. 10:14:38 i tried the open-shared-library with a different dll and that worked. 10:14:38 does the error message say anything more than that? 10:14:43 is it for the right architecture? 10:14:43 no. nothin. 10:15:15 the documentation string for the open-shared-library says "If the library can't be 10:15:16 loaded, signal a SIMPLE-ERROR which contains an often-cryptic message from 10:15:16 the operating system." 10:15:25 often-cryptic ;) 10:15:32 right architecture. 10:15:34 good point. 10:15:39 no immediately ideas besides possible arch mismatch, then 10:16:05 is there something like "file" for windows? 10:16:08 i hoped that the standard delivery included a win32 dll ... how do i find out if it is the right dll quickly? 10:16:48 stassats: i think cygwin has "file" :) 10:17:05 stassats: that would be nice ;) i am normally developing on linux; but i have to migrate a project to windows. 10:17:16 _8david: git clone http://www.lichteblau.com/git/hemlock.git fails, due to "did you run git update-server-info on the server?" if you have full control over the server I can help set up git:// 10:17:39 -!- sharps` is now known as sharps 10:17:58 attila_lendvai: isn't it at http://gitorious.org/hemlock now/ 10:17:59 ? 10:18:09 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:18:12 angavrilov_ [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has joined #lisp 10:18:16 stassats: don't know, looking... thanks! 10:18:59 yeah, looks like. the one I've posted is rather old 10:22:12 hm... file says "PE32 executable for MS Windows (DLL) (GUI) Intel 80386 32-bit" 10:23:23 annoying.... i hate those library difficulties ... :( 10:23:48 sharps` [~user@ip-118-90-124-109.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:24:59 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:25:16 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.2.85] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:25:47 dbrunner: and the dll you managed to load says? 10:25:55 sharps`` [~user@ip-118-90-124-109.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:26:55 Mebot [~Mebot@c-d181e555.09-137-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 10:27:00 ah. that says PE32 executable for MS Windows (DLL) (console) Intel 80386 10:27:06 (it's the sqlite3.dll) 10:27:11 sharps``` [~user@ip-118-90-124-109.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:27:30 hm. does that ("console" vs. "GUI") makes any difference for OPEN-SHARED-LIBRARY? 10:27:33 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 10:27:38 -!- sharps [~user@ip-118-90-124-109.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:28:37 sharps [~user@ip-118-90-124-109.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:29:37 i'm not a windows-head, but i know there are some differences between console and gui programs there -- starting from a different main(). not sure about the dll-side 10:29:43 -!- sharps` [~user@ip-118-90-124-109.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:30:02 hm. i see. 10:30:33 -!- sharps`` [~user@ip-118-90-124-109.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:30:54 sharps` [~user@ip-118-90-124-109.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:31:23 -!- sharps``` [~user@ip-118-90-124-109.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:33:18 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:33:31 sharps`` [~user@ip-118-90-124-109.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:34:41 -!- sharps [~user@ip-118-90-124-109.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:35:34 hm. downloading the dll from clsql.b9.com ... and that dll is loadable by open-shared-library. 10:36:49 okay. i try again to load the whole clsql thing .... let's see if that works ;) 10:36:49 sharps [~user@ip-118-90-124-109.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:37:13 -!- sharps` [~user@ip-118-90-124-109.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:37:54 dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 10:40:56 well done. 10:41:03 now the clsql runs. 10:43:35 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 10:43:37 _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 10:43:47 thanks for your tips! 10:43:54 i mean hints ,) 10:45:32 s1gma_ [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 10:45:51 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 10:47:51 -!- _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:48:05 interesting: the recently downloaded dll does not differ from the one that did not work ... 10:48:14 windows is a really nice platform to work for! :) 10:48:35 sharps` [~user@ip-118-90-124-109.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:48:58 -!- sharps` [~user@ip-118-90-124-109.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:50:31 -!- s1gma_ [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:50:58 -!- sharps`` [~user@ip-118-90-124-109.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:52:13 -!- sharps [~user@ip-118-90-124-109.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:56:11 gozek [~quassel@56.165.216.87.static.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 10:58:48 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 10:59:28 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:12:05 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-230-225.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:13:04 -!- Mebot [~Mebot@c-d181e555.09-137-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:14:27 Mebot [~Mebot123@c-d181e555.09-137-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 11:14:46 -!- Mebot [~Mebot123@c-d181e555.09-137-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:16:31 i'm looking at re-enabling fuzzy completions for my slime 11:16:59 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 11:17:03 the completions buffer i get is quite different from the one i remember 11:17:20 is there a way to get the pretty buffer and take the point there automatically? 11:18:47 nikodemus: I suggest (setq slime-fuzzy-explanation "") 11:19:25 no change that i can see 11:20:29 should get rid of a lot of extra useless text on the top of the fuzzy match list buffer 11:20:40 aha 11:20:48 my keybindings are wrong 11:21:08 i wasn't actually running fuzzy completion :) 11:21:46 make sure (setq slime-complete-symbol-function 'slime-fuzzy-complete-symbol) 11:22:20 hm. i have that 11:22:30 but TAB doesn't fuzzy-complete 11:23:09 aha 11:23:23 slime somehow overwrote my setq in .emacs 11:25:31 yep. i have (setq slime-complete-symbol-function 'slime-fuzzy-complete-symbol) in .emacs, but after starting emacs the value is slime-complete-symbol* 11:26:41 now it sticks :) 11:26:48 heh, I just realized that completion is on "\M-\t" by default and I have a binding directly for fuzzy on tab... 11:26:53 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 11:27:24 -!- zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:28:05 _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 11:28:56 is there a way to make the completions appear by splitting the current buffer horizontally in two, and showing them in the lower part? 11:29:43 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-213-168-95-3.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:29:54 how does it happen? if emacs has many enough columns, then it automatically splits vertically... but it can be controlled somehow I think. 11:29:57 i tend to use emacs with two tall buffers side-by-side, and getting the completions in the one opposite the one i'm working in is kind of distracting 11:29:58 -!- wbooze` [~user@xdsl-213-168-95-3.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:30:07 for me it splits vertically because I put emacs on fullscreen 11:30:42 I find myself not looking often at the fuzzy list... about 30% of the time 11:30:50 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:31:27 the rest of the 70% is just TAB TAB, or TAB SPACE to insert the first match 11:32:43 i mostly mislike this "flash 50% of my visual field when i press tab" that i get 11:33:45 doesn't the fuzzy list only work when you're editing in an environment which has most of your sourcefile also loaded? 11:33:56 I mean, in order to find the symbols. 11:34:16 how do the other completions behave? they do what you would like to have with fuzzy? then look into how the buffer is opened... 11:34:35 attila_lendvai: for a while i haven't been using the completions at all 11:34:45 ehu: yes, fuzzy (and the other slime completions) run on the CL side 11:35:11 nikodemus: ehh?! wow... you're a wizard! :) 11:35:13 completion in Java scans the source or or searches compiled source. but most environments don't actually load the Java classes in order to do matching 11:35:29 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:35:46 they started doing the same "replace one of two open buffers" at some point, and i turned them of because it was too distracting 11:37:49 nikodemus: but when you're done with the completion the original window setup is restored, right? is it annoying that way also? 11:38:23 <_8david> attila_lendvai: thx, nice to know that recent ubuntu (or even debian?) finally has kdebindings new enough to support CommonQt 11:39:14 homie [~user@xdsl-213-168-95-3.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:39:19 wbooze [~user@xdsl-213-168-95-3.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:39:34 nikodemus: with fuzzy you are pretty much locked whilethe completion buffer is up anyways... special key bindings are installed to navigate the compleitons while focus is still in the originating buffer. (unless you set slime-fuzzy-completion-in-place to nil IIRC) 11:40:26 attila_lendvai: yes, the original is restored 11:40:32 I use the completion buffer as a flash only... and if it's in the way and you don't want to finish completion then just press C-g to get rid of it 11:41:08 ok. adding a (split-window-vertically) before (pop-to-buffer (slime-get-fuzzy-buffer)) seems to get me the behaviour i want 11:41:24 _8david: there were some errors... but it built and run. at first sight there was an issue with the character width, because the caret was getting further to the right than the actually typed in chars 11:41:34 *attila_lendvai* means hemlock 11:41:53 but while we are at it... if it's not emacs, then is it hemlock or climacs? 11:42:43 there seems to be more buzz around hemlock than climacs 11:43:21 being able to run in a tty is actually a bonus for me 11:43:32 but i haven't touched hemlock in a while now 11:45:32 <_8david> attila_lendvai: try to switch the font using the font dialog 11:45:57 _8david: I've tried one more, m$ consolas, and it was the same 11:46:22 I'll play a bit more later, I've just clicked around a bit... 11:47:00 -!- humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:47:40 <_8david> Hrm. It's possible that some font metrics get selected at startup time and don't get recomputed on font changes. 11:47:51 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-213-168-95-3.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:47:51 <_8david> Try setting hemlock.qt::*font-family* and *font-size* using ~/.hemlock.lisp so that the GUI starts up with that font right away. 11:47:56 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-213-168-95-3.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:49:01 *attila_lendvai* makes a note 11:49:22 <_8david> My own hemlock use is still severely hampered by the need to run on Allegro, and until Allegro finally gets native threads, blocking in iolib or Qt event loops isn't an option. 11:50:25 <_8david> But I'm really interested in having our production image include hemlock as soon as possible though, in particular on windows. It may lag behind emacs and slime by several decades, but it's still more usable than acl's built-in repl on windows. 11:50:44 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.15.23] has joined #lisp 11:51:07 _8david: will allegro get native threads? 11:51:35 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 11:51:35 i thought they already had 11:52:06 <_8david> ehu: promised for the next major release. AFAIK, it's been about to be released "RSN" since early 2010. 11:52:21 I've never liked elisp and emacs, althought it's still the best option today, so I sticked... but I've spent more time on slime than it's worth it, and if there's a more promising option in the long term, than spending that time on hemlock would maybe be better... 11:52:24 <_8david> nikodemus: technically they have native threads on windows, but no SMP support even there. 11:52:28 _8david: what do you mean by "production image" ? using hemlock daily, in your company ? 11:55:45 urandom__ [~user@p548A71B3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:56:14 pdenno [~pdenno@207-172-151-197.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 11:57:18 <_8david> fe[nl]ix: honestly, at this point, it's not good enough for daily development use. 11:57:23 <_8david> But our production servers have swank in the image for occasional debugging sessions and other setup work that requires access to the REPL. And I'd like to replace that with tty hemlock (on linux) and qt hemlock (on windows). 11:57:43 impressive :) 11:57:49 ska`` [~user@ppp-115-87-234-46.revip4.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 11:58:40 <_8david> Aside from being convenient, that kind of use would probably also give me a reason to hack it a little more, so perhaps it'd be a catalyst for more hemlock features. 12:00:05 -!- ska` [~user@ppp-58-11-97-82.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:02:08 wuj [~wuj@pool-74-108-204-117.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:02:22 attila_lendvai: http://github.com/nikodemus/Slime/commit/2c29f15e8cde60b6057a54b58ecb403dc0e81980 12:03:51 <_8david> attila_lendvai: hemlock's X11 backend isn't all bad either, BTW. Not particularly pretty (but but hey, it's fast!). 12:03:53 hargettp [~anonymous@96.237.121.128] has joined #lisp 12:04:01 robsynnott [~robertsyn@089-101-020073.ntlworld.ie] has joined #lisp 12:04:09 -!- robsynnott [~robertsyn@089-101-020073.ntlworld.ie] has left #lisp 12:16:55 -!- dbrunner [~user@p4FF773AE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:18:47 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@96.237.121.128] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 12:19:29 Bronsa [~bronsa@host190-16-dynamic.11-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 12:19:46 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:20:34 Edward_ [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-62-138.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:20:42 ehu` [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 12:21:57 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:22:21 fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-084-056-181-159.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:23:15 hargettp [~anonymous@96.237.121.128] has joined #lisp 12:24:50 -!- PascalHunger [~user@d60-65-84-128.col.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:25:24 -!- wuj [~wuj@pool-74-108-204-117.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:28:06 nikodemus: re "I have ASDF loaded when Slime starts up, but the .fasl files are kept in the Slime directory." is it deliberate that you keep the .fasl files in the slime directory? after my asdf integration patch the fasl's should go into ~/.cache/comon-lisp/... 12:29:17 ...which contains the sbcl revision, so different sbcl versions should be dealt with 12:32:42 attila_lendvai: nikodemus is in a rare position of having incompatible fasls from the same sbcl version and architecture (e.g. different sbcl *features*) 12:34:05 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:34:05 ah, right! sometimes I see that, too... hehe, maybe asdf could extend the fasl path with a hashcode of the stuff in *features*... :) 12:34:18 on #+sbcl 12:34:46 nah. sometimes the stated version is the same, and features are the same, but fasls are incompatible 12:35:00 Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:35:35 because i changed a signature incompatibly, amended the last commit in git, and installed the result 12:35:48 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:36:17 the only robust solution i know is to try to recompile if load fails -- but only once, so that genuine load-errors don't end up looping 12:37:14 sabalaba [~sabalaba@114.240.87.56] has joined #lisp 12:37:23 (and as ASDF-UTILITIES package adventure has proved, fasls can be incompatible due to package changes in user code as well) 12:39:39 Protected [~Join@myshelter.net] has joined #lisp 12:40:08 timack [~tim@hlfx53-2a-221.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 12:40:09 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 12:43:01 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.199.58] has joined #lisp 12:43:25 nikodemus: sb-thread:with-recursive-lock doesn't expose the timeout of get-mutex... is it just not done yet, or is there a conceptional issue? (like what should be the API?) 12:44:22 Mebot [~Mebot123@c-d181e555.09-137-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 12:44:32 attila_lendvai: i think that's just an oversight 12:45:30 ah, neither does with-mutex it seems 12:46:16 I have one usage of with-deadline together with with-recursive-lock to optionally get going if the session cannot be locked in this turn... I guess it should be locally handled and with-deadline left out from it. 12:47:00 although what would be the API? returning nil and the code body should always return with non-nil? feels weird... 12:47:22 yeah. the api needs to be consided 12:47:25 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@96.237.121.128] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 12:47:43 shall I record a bug at lp? 12:47:48 please 12:49:03 maybe something like (with-lock (lock :timeout to) (exec-with-lock-held) (:timeout (exec-when-timed-out))) -- need to check what others are doing too 12:49:34 there's also a long-standing issue that lock recursivity should be a property of the lock, not acquisition site 12:50:07 so that you do (make-mutex :recursive t) instead of putting with-recursive-lock all over the place 12:50:11 just wanted to mention the with-mutex/with-recursive-lock naming anomaly 12:50:20 that's ok 12:52:58 -!- Mebot [~Mebot123@c-d181e555.09-137-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:54:28 nikodemus: https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/661713 12:55:35 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 12:59:40 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-230-225.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:00:22 josemanuel [~josemanue@211.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 13:00:26 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:01:20 billstclair_ [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 13:01:39 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Disconnected by services] 13:01:46 -!- billstclair_ is now known as billstclair 13:01:52 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Changing host] 13:01:53 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 13:03:08 nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-178-106.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 13:07:30 Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:09:34 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:09:38 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:09:44 red1ynx [~Dzmitry@91.149.140.201] has joined #lisp 13:10:01 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 13:11:00 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:11:22 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 13:11:39 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:13:17 super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 13:14:02 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.15.23] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:15:58 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:17:11 lotrpy [~lotrpy@202.120.36.170] has joined #lisp 13:21:14 -!- lotrpy [~lotrpy@202.120.36.170] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:28:03 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 13:38:05 Hey everyone. I'm a novice at lisp and I have some questions about the Allegro IDE. Does anyone here use that? Or used? 13:39:55 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host190-16-dynamic.11-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:40:06 <_8david> the IDE itself? no. The CG graphics library behind it? yes, a little. 13:40:08 Protected: Maybe so (not me). On the other hand, this is freenode, so you would expect pople to use FLOSS. 13:40:35 Protected: I used it when it was 6.0 (eons ago) 13:43:30 beach: Unfortunately our teachers wants us to use Allegro 13:43:35 *teacher 13:43:43 Protected: Where is that? 13:43:55 I'm in Portugal 13:43:59 Do you need more details? 13:44:13 Not necessarily. 13:44:38 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:44:43 <_8david> if most people here are unfamiliar with the cg ide, I suspect it's less that they don't use commercial lisp solutions, and more that they are unix hacker types preferring emacs 13:44:47 This was the lisp irc channel I found after some searching; If there's a better place to inquire about proprietary IDEs please let me know 13:44:52 Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:45:08 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-230-225.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:45:17 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-1-3.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:45:43 <_8david> also, if I could choose between the two commercial solutions, Allegro CG and LispWorks CAPI, I'd prefer the latter... 13:46:33 I'm not sure exactly what's causing my problem, maybe it's not even the IDE? It's simply that whenever I compile and load a lisp file in Allegro, whether it's using the File menu or (compile-file) and (load), the functions in it do not become available - It says they're undefined 13:46:44 I tried Lispworks and this doesn't happen in it :S 13:47:05 Using the exact same procedures, it recognizes the functions afterwards 13:47:10 <_8david> Does the file state a package? Which package is the REPL in? 13:47:25 Let me check 13:47:26 <_8david> The package name could be CL-USER, for example, or something you've defined. 13:47:46 Hm, (in-package :user) ? 13:48:04 I didn't write these, they're provided by the teacher 13:48:17 jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-158.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:48:49 <_8david> okay, USER is the same thing as CL-USER. It's different from CG-USER though, which the repl might be in. (Or vice versa.) 13:49:15 Oh, I see 13:49:34 That is indeed the situation, it seems to have changed automatically when I opened allegro (every time I open it?) 13:49:35 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:49:36 How do I change it back? 13:49:49 cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.120.134] has joined #lisp 13:50:01 <_8david> :pa cl-user 13:50:09 <_8david> which is short for (in-package :cl-user) 13:50:33 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 13:50:37 Oh 13:50:42 Thanks a lot, that solved it 13:51:04 So Lispworks probably worked because it started in cl-user? 13:53:16 carlocci [~nes@93.37.204.47] has joined #lisp 13:58:30 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-169-124.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:02:29 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:03:11 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@187.87.233.28] has joined #lisp 14:11:02 konr [~user@201.82.132.104] has joined #lisp 14:22:34 hargettp [~anonymous@96.237.121.128] has joined #lisp 14:27:16 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 14:30:55 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:31:26 -!- bandu is now known as coyo 14:33:17 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 14:34:31 -!- BrianRice [~water@c-98-246-165-205.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:35:26 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:38:53 -!- crod [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:41:04 Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:46:56 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-120-181.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:49:46 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.166.154.107] has joined #lisp 14:50:56 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.49.192] has joined #lisp 14:51:48 -!- benny [~benny@i577A7385.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:53:16 benny [~benny@i577A29F8.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 14:55:31 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-43-50.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:55:38 -!- aoh [~aki@80.75.102.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:01:53 jpd [~jpd@pine.noqsi.com] has joined #lisp 15:05:49 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:10:42 gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:19:55 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:20:26 jwein [~jwein@host108-74-dynamic.32-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:22:33 ikki [~ikki@189.247.115.24] has joined #lisp 15:23:29 jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 15:24:39 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.15.23] has joined #lisp 15:25:23 i'm trying to get the weblocks-clsql-demo running under slime/sbcl. do i simply (load "/home/yates/tmp/weblocks-stable/examples/weblocks-clsql-demo/weblocks-clsql-demo.lisp")? (from http://bitbucket.org/skypher/weblocks-stable/src/tip/examples/weblocks-clsql-demo/) 15:26:27 forgive me if i'm being stupid - i'm very new to cl and weblocks 15:26:36 abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:27:20 do the getting started directions in the weblocks trac docs not work? 15:28:02 they indicate that if you (pushnew #P"/home/yates/tmp/weblocks-stable/" asdf:*central-registry*) 15:28:18 you can do (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op 'weblocks) 15:28:27 and then (weblocks:start-weblocks) 15:28:42 yates: you were using clbuild, right? 15:28:51 Fade: where is this trac? i don't see that here: http://trac.common-lisp.net/cl-weblocks 15:28:54 which should expose the demo on http://localhost:8080/weblocks-demo/ 15:28:59 -!- dborba [~dborba@74.105.202.55] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:29:02 p_l|uni: i switched to quicklisp last night 15:29:07 http://trac.common-lisp.net/cl-weblocks/wiki/UserManual 15:29:08 MUCH better system, it seems! 15:29:09 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:29:42 yates: I don't think the demo works, because weblocks uses a hacked clsql that i can't build easily to add to quicklisp. 15:29:46 the clsql demo, that is. 15:29:54 if you just use (weblocks:start-weblocks), it'll start running. 15:30:03 yates: in that case, load quicklisp into your image (so it sets up paths properly), and jut quickload it 15:30:24 dborba [~dborba@74.105.202.55] has joined #lisp 15:31:30 i'm confused 15:32:06 i'm not sure which parts of what you're telling me are setup issues versus how to run it once it's setup 15:32:32 i don't understand how to ensure required packages are loaded when running something 15:32:37 confused at multiple levels 15:32:38 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:33:00 yates: are you somehow experienced with Makefiles? 15:33:05 oh yes 15:33:09 gnumake, very much 15:34:05 yates: well, manually loading stuff in REPL is fine for playing around, but when you want to start your own project, create an ASDF system for it - and ASDF will handle "building" the environment. 15:34:06 i come from the embedded world where i use gnumake, gcc, or embedded compilers extensively 15:34:30 read ASDF manual on how to configure it, so you can add your own directory without breaking quicklisp 15:34:51 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:54 -!- Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Planned down time ^^] 15:34:58 ok, i'll start there - thx p_l|uni 15:36:19 p_l|uni: you said "quickload 'it'" - what is 'it'? 15:36:48 weblocks 15:37:12 (ql:quickload '(weblocks weblocks.examples)) 15:37:36 although as Xach said, the clsql demo is broken. 15:38:22 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 15:38:52 weblocks.examples not found 15:39:19 ah, sorry weblocks-demo 15:39:36 (ql:system-apropos "weblocks") 15:39:41 right 15:40:14 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-084-056-181-159.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:41:06 how do you see what top-level functions are in a package? (under slime) 15:41:12 e.g., weblocks-demo 15:43:10 -!- super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:44:20 kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-211-130.ip56.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:44:20 Guthur [~Guthur@host81-132-92-254.range81-132.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 15:44:23 in a repl, you should be able to do (weblocks:) to open a completion buffer. 15:44:55 Kruppe [~user@CPE00222d128ba2-CM00222d128b9e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 15:45:07 Fade: very nice! 15:46:01 BrianRice [~water@c-98-246-165-205.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:46:11 hello 15:46:15 slime rocks. 15:46:43 -!- The_Jon_Smith [~The_Jon_S@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has left #lisp 15:47:17 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 15:47:30 in an edit buffer you have to do C-c for the same thing. 15:48:38 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:49:01 just to be pedantic, is there a cl command to list these? 15:49:18 (show-package-functions 'weblocks-demo) or somesuch 15:50:27 (apropos "" 'weblocks-demo) 15:50:47 when runnign this demo, sbcl is taking 100% cpu time and the demo runs dog slow - there is a bug in the demo, i'm told 15:51:18 stassats: thx 15:52:55 you can also list all the symbols in a package with a form like: (do-symbols (s 'weblocks) (pprint s)) 15:53:23 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-236-50.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 15:53:47 ok thx 15:53:59 gotta run to the gym and burn some blood sugar off 15:54:20 lisp burns sugar too 15:54:29 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 15:54:30 aoh [~aki@80.75.102.51] has joined #lisp 15:57:13 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:00:16 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-110-65.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:02:32 gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.228.153] has joined #lisp 16:02:44 I'm afraid all the images around here are nuclear powered. 16:03:06 abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:03:07 togo [~User@yale128036062204.student.yale.edu] has joined #lisp 16:03:43 by brain is not 16:04:57 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.120.134] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:05:43 c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:06:43 super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 16:06:54 -!- togo [~User@yale128036062204.student.yale.edu] has left #lisp 16:07:15 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.180.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:07:47 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.46.62] has joined #lisp 16:11:27 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.49.192] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:13:28 Bronsa [~bronsa@host190-16-dynamic.11-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:17:07 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 16:18:55 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 16:18:56 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:19:21 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 16:19:58 pr [phil@unaffiliated/pr] has joined #lisp 16:21:33 gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:13 leoncamel [~leoncamel@KD175129170046.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:24:39 ak70 [~ak70@a146.200.adsl.nextweb.net.mt] has joined #lisp 16:26:21 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.15.23] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:27:26 -!- ak70 [~ak70@a146.200.adsl.nextweb.net.mt] has left #lisp 16:27:38 -!- _3b [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:29:26 -!- _3b`` [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:30:37 -!- Kaer [b@c-2fcce253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:30:50 Kaer [b@c-2fcce253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 16:32:52 timor [~timor@port-92-195-153-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 16:38:27 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:40:04 -!- xan_ [~xan@211-000-133-196.jp.fiberbit.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:44:37 ... when someone drive me nervous :P 16:44:54 *drives 16:45:59 -!- pdenno [~pdenno@207-172-151-197.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:47:00 fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-084-056-181-159.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:48:53 -!- pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-60-2.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:48:58 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:55:06 pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-60-2.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:55:10 *p_l|uni* ponders how much work would be needed to make closure-html accept html5 16:56:16 leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has joined #lisp 16:58:59 TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-76-175-244-227.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:59:47 aaarg. i've started making phonetic typoes again 16:59:59 i just wrote "while" when i ment "file" 17:00:51 abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:01:08 -!- legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-33-132.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:03:51 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-38-30.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 17:05:37 was "typoes" intentional? 17:09:03 not really :) 17:09:19 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-46-76.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:09:32 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-19-221.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:12:52 phrixos [~user@bs0176.nerc-bas.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 17:16:26 -!- BrianRice [~water@c-98-246-165-205.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:17:56 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 17:18:54 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-110-65.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:20:26 -!- Edward_ [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-62-138.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 17:20:52 BrianRice [~water@c-98-246-165-205.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:21:14 skalawag` [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #lisp 17:23:14 phrixos` [~user@bs0176.nerc-bas.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 17:23:41 -!- konr [~user@201.82.132.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:23:49 http://www.220.ro/funny/Microsoft-Vs-Java/Iw8nmDHL7Y/ 17:24:19 -!- skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:24:43 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:24:59 -!- phrixos [~user@bs0176.nerc-bas.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:26:33 *drewc* realizes that implementing monad transformers using CLOS inheritance is never going to work 17:27:40 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@211.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 17:27:58 dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 17:29:42 *sykopomp* balks at John Shutt's dissertation of fexprs. 17:29:58 416 pages. Goodness. D: 17:31:13 drewc: I spent a while porting some macros to their fexpr form. I'm starting to see why they're so great :) 17:31:18 kclifton [~kclifton@s198-166-45-245.ab.hsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 17:31:20 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:31:22 prabuinet [75c1d12f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.117.193.209.47] has joined #lisp 17:31:58 hi, can anyone point me to good lexer in common lisp 17:32:14 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:32:30 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:33:07 sykopomp: what's fexpr form? 17:33:13 I found cl-lex, but I cant find a single example on the net 17:34:02 ehu`: fexpr are like functions that receive their arguments unevaluated. They're a way to perform similar code-abstraction work to what macros do. 17:34:08 -!- BrianRice [~water@c-98-246-165-205.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:34:10 s1gma_ [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 17:34:24 except, iiuc, they're also lexically scoped (hygienic). 17:35:28 davazp [~user@201.Red-88-6-206.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:00 http://paste.lisp.org/display/115607 17:36:13 *ehu`* was about to ask that 17:36:45 (fun foo) => (function foo) 17:36:45 iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@61.43.139.4] has joined #lisp 17:37:00 and no, I haven't run that code because there's no interpreter/compiler for that 'language'. It's just a sketch. 17:37:50 -!- _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:38:14 BrianRice [~water@c-98-246-165-205.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:37 -!- pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-60-2.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo_] 17:39:58 hmm. I guess you have to have a use-case. 17:40:22 I'm not seeing the benefit yet; however, I've yet to get my feet wet in truely functional programming. 17:44:13 i tried installing weblocks with clbuild and i got a package name clash; then i tried installing with quicklisp and i get this slowness problem; how does one obtain an installation that is problem-free? 17:44:26 ehu`: that code is hygienic, unlike its macro counterpart. 17:44:53 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:45:19 and you don't need some sublanguage, or to change the representation of lisp code, to have it. 17:47:58 sykopomp: but it's a heck of a lot more work. 17:49:16 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 17:49:17 ehu`: Without any helpers, probably. You can still use backquote. 17:49:21 -!- leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.20] 17:50:28 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:51:45 sykopomp: more discussion later 17:51:50 *ehu`* has to take kids to bed. 17:52:21 ehu`: http://paste.lisp.org/display/115607#1 17:53:40 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:54:53 -!- BrianRice [~water@c-98-246-165-205.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:55:30 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-38-30.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:55:36 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:57:33 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-39-183.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 17:57:58 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 17:58:28 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:00:32 -!- red1ynx [~Dzmitry@91.149.140.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:00:39 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-161-161.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:01:07 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-161-161.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:01:32 sykopomp: it gets even more fun when you think of the partial evaluator you can write to 'compile' them. 18:02:02 drewc: I haven't even started thinking of that yet! 18:02:41 drewc: do you think it's reasonable, from a usability point of view, to have that partial evaluator warn when the compiler will still be required? One thing that kinda bothers me about these fexprs is that I'm not sure how easy it is to shed the compiler on release. 18:03:07 well, it's a lot easier when there is no compiler 18:03:32 BrianRice [~water@c-98-246-165-205.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:03:35 an interpreter? :( 18:03:38 that's a large part of the magic of partial evaluation 18:04:25 I'm missing something here, I think. 18:04:31 I don't really understand what you mean. 18:05:32 indeed, you're missing the third Futamura projection 18:06:19 oh 18:06:23 hmmm 18:07:57 -!- atomx [~user@92.81.118.66] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:11:02 bgs100_ [~ian@adsl-070-147-167-154.sip.mcn.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 18:12:11 -!- bgs100_ [~ian@adsl-070-147-167-154.sip.mcn.bellsouth.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:13:57 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 18:15:37 bgs101 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 18:15:48 -!- phrixos` [~user@bs0176.nerc-bas.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:19:53 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@187.87.233.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:20:10 pdenno [~pdenno@207-172-151-197.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 18:22:14 sykopomp: http://people.csail.mit.edu/gregs/dynamic-pe.html is good paper on PE in dynamic/reflective languages. a reflective tower of partially evaluated interpreters is how i envision things. 18:22:44 drewc: I also found futamura's old paper, but that apparently does not cover the third projection. 18:23:24 sykopomp: http://partial-eval.org/ <--- start here 18:23:30 drewc: the links are borked. 18:23:41 I was all excited until I started getting 404s and # :\ 18:24:26 -!- skalawag` is now known as skalawag 18:24:45 :( 18:25:17 that used to work! 18:25:21 humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 18:25:53 what about http://library.readscheme.org/page10.html ? 18:25:56 sykopomp: http://readscheme.org/partial-eval/index.html 18:26:19 the overview is 404. Boo. 18:26:21 better, though. 18:26:44 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-56-134.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 18:26:50 is there a way to profile lisp code? 18:26:57 yes 18:27:14 timing ? 18:27:24 use your implementation 18:27:33 yates: SBCL has a fantastic statistical profiler. 18:27:36 M-x slime-profile-* is also usable 18:27:47 if you're a lucky user of SBCL and Slime, you can just run M-x slime-sprof-start 18:28:01 and see the results with M-x slime-sprof-browser 18:28:06 wow 18:28:10 yes, i am that users 18:28:15 *user 18:28:19 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-39-183.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:28:22 though you need to load slime-sprof contrib first 18:28:23 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.112.46.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:28:31 stassats: whoa! :D 18:28:38 stassats: thanks for pointing that out. 18:29:16 (there is also M-x slime-sprof-start-alloc) 18:29:40 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host190-16-dynamic.11-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:29:47 and -time, the default one is :cpu 18:29:56 whatever that means 18:30:07 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.183.248] has joined #lisp 18:30:20 -!- ehu` is now known as ehu 18:31:12 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 18:31:33 and don't forget to read its bindings, by pressing h 18:32:32 stassats: ok, thx much 18:35:08 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:37:12 perhaps i'm appraoching this wrong: what i'm trying to do is get the weblocks-demo to run properly 18:37:23 i've gotten it to run, but it is very slow 18:37:34 profiling slow things is a good idea 18:37:38 so i thought i'd try to profile it to see what's going on 18:38:12 i should probably add package filtering to sprof-browser 18:38:17 stassats: in some cases, yes, but if it's a known problem and someone can show a fix easily, not so much 18:39:15 also, this demo apparently spawns a process that runs in the background 18:39:39 so it's not a case of just running something sequentially in the repl buffer, i don't think... 18:39:43 -!- jwein [~jwein@host108-74-dynamic.32-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [] 18:39:57 hunchentoot/etc. 18:40:08 or is it? 18:40:09 pavelludiq [~quassel@83.222.175.21] has joined #lisp 18:40:14 what's the difference? 18:40:32 determining which process to profile? 18:40:32 Adamant [~Adamant@c-69-136-200-213.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:40:33 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-69-136-200-213.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:40:33 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 18:40:42 sprof profiles all processes 18:40:45 if one is the repl and another is an independent process? 18:40:50 or rather "threads" 18:41:02 ah 18:41:11 is that how sbcl works? 18:41:19 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.166.154.107] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:41:21 things spun off are threads? 18:41:32 (share the same memory space) 18:41:47 yes 18:41:51 well let me try it first i guess, eh? 18:41:53 red1ynx [~Dzmitry@91.149.140.201] has joined #lisp 18:41:58 instead of asking 1000 questions... 18:42:03 well, you can profile specific threads in sb-sprof, but there is no interface for it in slime-sprof 18:42:09 i should probably add that too 18:42:45 at least there is something available - thank you for that, stassats 18:43:18 yates: if it's a know problem you're probably best of sending mail to weblocks mailing list (or bugtracker or whatever they use) 18:43:52 but sending a mail with a fix would be more fun! 18:44:01 fun?!? 18:44:08 painful - yes. 18:44:13 fruitful - yes. 18:44:27 your have a wrong attitude 18:44:35 s/your/you/ 18:45:00 well i wanted to learn weblocks! 18:45:20 i find fixing bugs the best way to learn something 18:45:29 yes, i think i would learn alot 18:46:03 and it's fun, like hunting or fishing 18:46:22 what is an .asd file? 18:46:32 a file for ASDF to read 18:46:37 a package? 18:46:43 a system 18:47:43 is specifies which files are needed to build the system, and the order they need to be compiled/loaded in (approximately -- the reality, as ever, is more complex) 18:47:51 it specifies, even 18:48:05 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-120-181.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 18:48:15 what is a system? 18:48:34 wait - let me guess - "read pcl" 18:49:24 a collection of interconnected things 18:49:36 a system is a bunch of code. it can have 0-N packages, but most often 1 18:49:38 ... I'd almost more suggest reading John Gall, "Systemantics". 18:49:51 The_Jon_Smith [~The_Jon_S@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:49:53 it's called "The Systems Bible" now 18:50:00 -!- bgs101 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:50:05 Really? 18:50:07 -!- The_Jon_Smith [~The_Jon_S@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has left #lisp 18:50:09 yah, still around 18:50:23 bgs101 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 18:50:40 I especially like the example of building a hanger to shield something from the weather, and the hangar is so big it had it's own microclimate 18:50:41 "an asdf system" is approximately the same what you could also call "a library" 18:50:47 -!- red1ynx [~Dzmitry@91.149.140.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:50:53 i mean, is it a final executable to run? 18:50:57 aha - right nikodemus 18:51:10 thank you 18:51:23 the .asd is the recipe for loading the code of the system into the running lisp 18:51:27 It's a library, except when it's an application. 18:51:41 nyef: ssh... 18:51:59 but yeah, reading pcl would not hurt :) 18:52:02 can you "compile" a system to an actual elf executable? 18:52:04 my libraries often include many systems.... 18:52:11 yates: you can 18:52:20 And then there's the anti-asdf backlash, from people who just want to get stuff done and don't care about sorting out problems with asdf. 18:53:00 many new things to be learned in this lisp 18:53:06 yates: if your implementation supports delivering executables, then yes. however, such an executable will almost never contain _just_ the system, but a metric ton of other code too 18:53:17 2.6.34.7-56.fc13.x86_64 18:53:23 sbcl/slime 18:53:32 (and virtually all implementations do support executable delivery) 18:53:33 asdf 18:54:07 sbcl is the implementation. slime is the emacs mode. asdf the build-tool 18:54:12 nikodemus: by "implementation" do you mean "sbcl" versus "clojure" etc? 18:54:15 oh 18:54:17 ok 18:54:22 you get a compiler for free with your executable 18:54:36 yates: that's even different languages 18:54:38 sweet 18:54:40 sbcl vs clisp vs cmucl vs lispworks vs allegro vs ecl vs abcl vs gcl vs ... 18:54:59 ... clozure 18:55:10 ok 18:55:23 another day, another glint of understanding... 18:55:59 ..elisp 18:55:59 all different common lisp implementations. with sbcl you can get native executables just fine -- they're on the fat side because they include the compiler and everything, but gzexe slims them down nicely 18:56:17 oh, XCL is now on github 18:56:26 humasect: elisp is not a common lisp 18:56:48 common lisp is not a common lisp =| 18:57:01 humasect: get real, please 18:57:16 xcl has been 'released'? 18:57:18 wow. 18:57:31 I think he meant Common Lisp is not a common lisp 18:58:01 ehu: i see it received another portion of activity 18:58:21 stassats: link? by whom? Peter Graves? 18:58:32 http://armedbear.org/ 18:58:42 well, it was "released" long time ago 18:58:52 a year 18:58:53 katesmith [~mnrkate@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 19:00:09 i should again at making a swank backend to it 19:00:13 "look" 19:02:40 ak70 [~ak70@a146.200.adsl.nextweb.net.mt] has joined #lisp 19:03:40 -!- davazp [~user@201.Red-88-6-206.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:11:18 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:12:25 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:14:45 if sbcl is the implementation, slime is the emacs mode, and asdf the buildtool, what's swank? 19:15:02 the common-lisp part of slime 19:15:04 yates: it's the common lisp backend of slime 19:15:46 sorta the elisp/cl interface? 19:16:14 not only 19:16:31 elisp<==>cl<==>sbcl? 19:16:46 or rather, elisp<==>swank<==>sbcl? 19:16:56 yup 19:17:23 yates: no, elisp/cl interface is only a small part of swank 19:20:20 francogrex [~user@109.130.35.172] has joined #lisp 19:21:55 can one delete a line in a text file without copying: like by accessing (file-position stream 256) and deleting that line tha begings at 256? 19:22:31 no 19:23:23 -!- Wombatzus [~user@216-31-242-4.static-ip.telepacific.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:23:30 at the very least you need to copy the tail of the file N bytes backwards to cover the space previously occupied by the deleted line, and then truncate the file to the new size 19:25:55 ok seems like a hassel; better copy the file then and skip the unwanted places 19:26:36 nikodemus: reminds me of the crazy Office binary format.. 19:27:24 _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 19:28:40 -!- pdenno [~pdenno@207-172-151-197.c3-0.gth-ubr1.lnh-gth.md.cable.rcn.com] has left #lisp 19:29:34 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:30:23 -!- s1gma_ [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:34:28 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 19:34:31 -!- prabuinet [75c1d12f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.117.193.209.47] has left #lisp 19:34:55 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:35:39 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.35.172] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:36:44 -!- vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:43:14 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:46:46 lispm [~joswig@g224045087.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:51:29 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:53:27 LiamH [~liam@pool-173-49-255-42.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:03 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:54:34 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 19:55:18 gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 19:55:58 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 19:58:36 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 19:59:15 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:59:23 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:02:02 abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:08 -!- gozek [~quassel@56.165.216.87.static.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:04:54 Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 20:05:53 phrixos` [~user@bs0176.nerc-bas.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 20:06:07 -!- phrixos` is now known as phrixos 20:06:35 -!- phrixos [~user@bs0176.nerc-bas.ac.uk] has quit [Changing host] 20:06:35 phrixos [~user@gnu/webmaster/phrixos] has joined #lisp 20:07:17 red1ynx [~Dzmitry@91.149.140.201] has joined #lisp 20:11:27 symbole` [~user@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 20:11:51 stassats: i don't have slime-sprof-start but i do have slime-profile-by-substring. 20:12:05 as i said, load slime-sprof 20:12:32 -!- naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:12:32 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 20:13:01 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-169-124.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 20:13:29 load requires a path, right? 20:13:48 (load "path-to-slime-sprof")? 20:13:52 not LOAD 20:14:05 isn't that what you typed? 20:14:10 no 20:14:13 i typed "load" 20:14:28 change your slime-setup to (slime-setup '(other-contribs slime-sprof)) 20:14:28 i thought lisp was case-insensitive? 20:14:41 yates: you thought wrong 20:14:42 Isn't there a way to M-x foo nowdays to load a contrib interactively? 20:14:59 M-x slime-enable-contrib 20:15:50 does it amend slime-setup form in the config? 20:16:10 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.183.248] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:16:18 why should it? 20:16:46 that's what i understand by "enable" 20:16:51 stassats: thanks for taking care of my asdf glitch in slime 20:17:16 yates: The only thing "case-insensitive" is that symbol names are converted to uppercase by default when READ. 20:17:27 attila_lendvai: that's what i usually do, fix glitches 20:17:29 Hexstream: elisp is case sensitive 20:17:49 i was talking about cl 20:17:55 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.183.248] has joined #lisp 20:18:02 Ah. Well, I was talking about Common Lisp. Oh and I think Allegro is mixed-case by default. 20:18:18 yates: CL is case sensitive, too, see what Hexstream wrote 20:18:29 oh, slime-hackers: something like slime-apropos but listing exported symbols from a package -- does it exist? 20:18:31 clearly, cl should use more bizarre name so you can freely use verbs like "load" in conversations 20:18:58 No need... 20:19:04 Loading and LOADing are not the same thing ;P 20:19:06 nikodemus: M-x slime-apropos-package, i believe 20:19:16 Hexstream: yeah, well that's what i meant too. in this context "load" isn't a symbol? 20:19:18 neato /me tries 20:19:28 pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-60-2.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:19:34 nikodemus: Inspect the package 20:19:42 nikodemus: you can also inspect a package and C-s in the inspector window 20:19:49 Most people name symbols in UPPERCASE most of the time. I think. At least, I've come to expect it. 20:20:00 I mean, in conversation and documentation and such. 20:20:01 execellent 20:20:21 attila_lendvai: i'm collecting notes for my forthcoming tutorials 20:20:26 nikodemus: There you can also get it neatly grouped by kind of symbol 20:20:32 "M-x slime-enable-contrib slime-sprof" yields "(no match)" in the minibuffer 20:20:45 i guess cause my slime-setup doesn't include it 20:20:48 ? 20:20:49 which reminds me that the dwim inspect stuff is so much missing from slime head (for me). sometimes nowadays I'm testing stuff with slime HEAD... 20:21:10 -!- ak70 [~ak70@a146.200.adsl.nextweb.net.mt] has left #lisp 20:21:38 attila_lendvai: btw, what happened to your commit bit? 20:21:48 yates: Are you on slime cvs? 20:22:06 i used quicklisp, if that's what you mean 20:22:25 I posted a patch to cl-utilities-devel about a week ago and there has been no answer. What should I do now, if anything? http://common-lisp.net/pipermail/cl-utilities-devel/2010-October/thread.html 20:22:27 stassats: not much. helmut wrote to the admins to remove me, probably because of one of the commits was more controversial than I've judged... or the asdf glitch... 20:22:45 attila_lendvai: sorry to hear that 20:23:47 to be honest I was surprised it didn't happen last time when I came up with the git/darcs question, and splitting up slime.el (which since then happened! :), etc... I think at that time you were not actively comitting yet 20:24:15 tcr: or are you asking if i'm approved for checkin? no 20:24:43 thankfully. 20:24:44 yates: Seems like a bug to me. 20:25:42 attila_lendvai: i think helmut was surprised too 20:26:20 I've thought that things settled down enough that I can commit a few simple changes to head... the most controversial is the label-value-line stuff, but... helmut is minimalistic enough to dislike even that 20:26:58 I have a lot of inspector stuff which makes it much smoother... I didn't even consider comitting them 20:27:03 maybe it's more ad hominem 20:27:23 stassats: but I've even added ChangeLog entries! :) 20:27:31 Hexstream: i suggest that you try emailing the developer directly, as well as waiting. the last change was four years ago, it's probably not a major focus of attention for the developer right now. 20:27:41 i saw, thanks! 20:27:50 tokenrove: I don't know who the developer is. 20:28:03 -!- LiamH [~liam@pool-173-49-255-42.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:28:11 -!- pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-60-2.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo_] 20:28:19 doesn't the source have a copyright statement? 20:28:33 Hexstream: it's all over the clnet page 20:28:34 Hexstream: a week is too short a time-frame 20:28:37 and the archives. 20:28:47 -!- galdor [galdor@def92-10-88-162-192-107.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:29:07 pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-60-2.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:29:41 stassats: I'll forward port my inspector changes and will try to cut it in standalone chunks... maybe you can cherry-pick some of them and smuggle a few in... :) 20:30:04 nikodemus: It's all public domain and stuff, I'm pretty sure I checked it and saw no name there. 20:30:09 sounds like an idea 20:30:20 can someone tell me, why the latest cvs version of sbcl will not cross-compile with another prior cvs version of sbcl ? 20:30:33 because something wrong happened? 20:31:07 1.0.43.60 was ok, and i even have an image of it, now when i try to use that image for cross compilation, some steps fail fatally, bringing the compilation to full stop 20:31:59 obj/from-host/src/code/code.x86f could not be created ? 20:32:06 tokenrove: All over the clnet page? You mean the link hidden at the far right at the bottom of the page? I had never even seen that there were names like that on clnet ;P 20:32:15 Hexstream: and the manual, and the cvs history, etc 20:32:30 (all of which are off the clnet page, not to mention the mailing list archive) 20:32:36 wbooze: Umm. .x86f isn't an SBCL fasl extension. 20:33:02 wbooze: Are you sure you're not trying to XC from CMUCL? 20:33:02 is it normal for (ql:quickload 'weblocks-demo) to take >1minute to load? 20:33:17 nyef: what kind of extension is it then ? 20:33:18 on a fairly modern machine with plenty of memory? 20:33:33 tmi [~tmi@198.80-202-113.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 20:33:34 tokenrove: Hum, yeah. I guess I just balked when I didn't find the name immediately. My bad. 20:34:09 hmph. cl-utilities doesn't actually seem to have a licence statement at all that i can see 20:34:38 the manual says "public domain by maintained by Peter Scott" or so 20:34:45 er, s/by/but/ 20:34:49 careful, it may be proprietary, don't remember the sources! 20:35:15 wbooze: The SBCL fasl extension is invariably .fasl. 20:35:34 -!- bgs101 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:35:37 s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-208-110.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:39 The README mentions: "The code in cl-utilities is in the public domain. Do whatever you want with it." 20:35:41 actually there was a code.fasl there, so i don't know where that error stems from ? 20:35:45 wbooze: .x86f is typically a CMUCL .fasl for 32-bit x86, if I remember correctly. 20:35:51 aaaaah 20:35:53 ok 20:35:53 ah, hidden in the README 20:36:07 But I must say I'd prefer something more overt like a LICENSE file. 20:36:09 i ran a previous cross build with cmucl now i see 20:36:12 ok thank you nyef 20:36:24 run ./clean.sh? 20:36:44 i'm still stuck 20:36:44 -!- s0ber_ [~s0ber@111-240-212-186.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:37:07 i edited my init.el file and added slime-sprof to my slime-setup 20:37:18 and restarted emacs/slime 20:37:23 not running ./clean.sh was my thirst though, which i kept for myself 20:37:25 http://www.cliki.net/cl-utilities also mentions Public Domain. 20:37:27 but i still can't get slime-sprof-start to run 20:37:29 thirst? oh 20:38:07 yates: why? 20:38:55 why can't i get it to run? that's what i was hoping you could tell me! 20:39:13 it's a function, right? 20:39:35 sorry, i'm bad at telepathy 20:39:38 "The function SLIME-SPROF-START is undefined." 20:39:51 who says that? 20:39:57 is what i get when i try to run (slime-sprof-start) 20:39:57 doesn't look like Emacs 20:40:02 Sikander [~user@5356F49F.cm-6-7d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 20:40:04 yes, it is emacs/slime 20:40:11 Hi 20:40:13 and what did i say to run? M-x slime-sprof-start 20:40:54 I'd like to be able to read some binary file format, and was wondering if the PCL code is considered the standard library for that. 20:40:59 well hogwarts 20:40:59 BrianRice-mb [~briantric@75-94-47-26.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:18 srolls [~user@c-76-126-221-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:23 Sikander: yes 20:41:34 seelenquell [~kvirc@pD9E42A4A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:39 at least, i used it 20:42:09 Ok. I was just curious to know if it was absorbed into some larger library that can maybe also read floats 20:42:14 it seems clean.sh does not get rid of non-sbcl extensions in obj/from-host/blah 20:42:21 Sikander: flexi-streams has enhanced support for binary streams. It's "slow" but depending on what you do it may not matter. http://weitz.de/flexi-streams/ 20:42:28 Abezethibou [~user@217.131.74.63] has joined #lisp 20:42:41 stassats: so now i run the weblocks-demo? 20:42:52 Hexstream: i don't think that's what Sikander asked 20:42:57 now i ran a previous cross compile with clisp, and i get another extension file listed as a bogus file or so... 20:43:02 yates: yes, run whatever you want 20:43:03 Sikander: There would probably be many different incompatible ways to read/write a float in binary... 20:43:10 ok, then what ? 20:43:17 oh yeah 20:43:22 sprof-browser? 20:43:24 stassats: He's looking for help dealing with binary streams, no? 20:43:25 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 20:43:45 Hexstream: no, parsing binary data 20:43:50 I have a file that is in some specified binary format. I'd like to read that into a lisp object 20:43:57 yates: right 20:44:06 basically as shown in PCL 20:44:14 stassats: And to you those two tasks are not related in any way whatsoever? o_o 20:44:16 Sikander: you can easily interface binary-data with something like ieee-floats 20:44:38 Hexstream: they are, but this is irrelevant 20:44:58 tokenrove: binary-data is different from binary-types? 20:45:10 *Hexstream* dodges a lengthy and irrelevant discussion of how it is or is not irrelevant. 20:45:10 ehu` [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:45:13 stassats: so my previous problem with slime-sprof-start was that it is an elisp function, not a cl function? 20:45:31 exactly 20:45:33 Sikander: oh, binary-types. sorry, whatever it's called. and i can't remember if it's ieee-floats, either, but i've used the two of them together before. 20:45:46 i occasionally get a glimmer of understanding... 20:45:56 tokenrove: Ok, thanks 20:46:07 at this rate i'll have my web application up around, oh, 2013 20:46:09 stassats: thanks 20:46:50 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:47:20 Sikander: hmm, no, it appears that i'm thinking of binary-data. isn't binary-types the older one developed by frodef, or has there been some new development? 20:47:23 Hexstream: It's not entirely clear to me how I'd use flexi-streams to read a binary data file into an object 20:47:34 yates: you mean military time? so, by 8:13 pm? 20:47:48 tokenrove: where is binary-data? 20:48:01 Sikander: Well, it's maybe a bit more low-level than you're willing to go to ;P 20:48:10 Hexstream: ah, ok :) 20:48:13 binary-data is in PCL 20:48:17 -!- ehu` is now known as ehu 20:48:18 Oh, ok. 20:48:19 binary-types are in the WILD 20:48:19 *pkhuong* would probably use CFFI. 20:48:27 in the source distribution for PCL; for a second you got my hopes up that it was packaged separately in quicklisp 20:48:27 stassats: thanks for the encouragement! :) 20:48:33 (well, sb-alien, honestly) 20:48:39 suppertime - yippee! 20:49:28 pkhuong: sounds like premature optimization 20:49:43 oh, it is. awesome. scratch that. 20:50:43 stassats: no, just easier to write that sort of code with random type punning. 20:52:07 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 20:52:23 and easy to wreck havoc 20:52:50 -!- Abezethibou [~user@217.131.74.63] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:53:47 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: gz] 20:53:52 you're reading data. Worst that happens is a SIGSEGV, and, even then, it's easy to check bounds everywhere. 20:54:37 writing too 20:55:03 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.49.192] has joined #lisp 20:56:28 ok what about that now ? 20:56:30 ebugger invoked on a SIMPLE-ERROR in thread #: 20:56:30 FAILURE-P was set when creating "obj/from-xc/src/code/target-extensions.lisp-obj". 20:56:30 20:56:33 uups 20:57:17 wbooze: I'd use lisppaste. Why are you trying to build again (and with what host)? 20:57:19 an error or a warning was signalled during compilation of that file 20:59:43 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-084-056-181-159.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 21:00:31 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-211-130.ip56.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 21:02:38 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@host81-132-92-254.range81-132.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:04:12 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 21:04:54 stassats: i'll put it all into a paste, wait i'm generating it ... 21:06:31 all i understand till now is that it maybe lml related, which was put into that image with quicklisp 21:07:41 lisp machine lisp? 21:08:26 stassats: lisp markup language, afaik 21:08:48 that's not exciting 21:09:36 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:16 Kevara [~Kedavra@unaffiliated/kevara] has joined #lisp 21:15:20 ok here it is http://paste.lisp.org/+2H7J 21:15:38 gwynddyllyd [~gwynddyll@201.29.217.74] has joined #lisp 21:17:20 looks like that lisp-markup-language is brain damaged 21:17:48 vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has joined #lisp 21:18:45 there is an lml2, i didn't try it yet 21:19:53 it too installs reader-macros globally 21:20:05 oh 21:20:29 -!- gwynddyllyd [~gwynddyll@201.29.217.74] has left #lisp 21:20:57 so that's the real reason why it fails ? 21:21:13 yes 21:21:14 the reader get's confused ? 21:21:16 ok 21:21:22 no, it's not confused 21:22:09 just infused with allohol ? 21:22:11 lol 21:22:24 strong stuff 21:23:46 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-169-124.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:24:25 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-169-124.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 21:24:46 the reader gets broken by lml is how i'd put it 21:24:58 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 21:25:08 it should install them only into a specific readtable 21:25:16 -!- lispm [~joswig@g224045087.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:25:18 seriously broken too. 21:26:19 but then again, why do we use the host's readtable during xc? 21:26:40 i thought the readtable is copyable 21:27:02 so why does it not just copy the global one before do stuff and restore it again at the end ? 21:27:11 too bad the standard doesn't have a notion of linking readtables to packages 21:27:24 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 21:27:33 aah 21:27:37 stassats: amusing something like asdf could easily do that 21:27:42 amusingly, even 21:27:59 that is, specify a readtable to use for the whole system 21:28:08 named-readtables solves the problem, but at the cost of a new "declartion" at the top of the file 21:28:19 true 21:28:48 francogrex [~user@109.130.35.172] has joined #lisp 21:38:07 Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:20 -!- Joreji [~thomas@78-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:38:27 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-1-3.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 21:41:38 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.228.153] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:42:54 *Xach* likes the idea of named-readtables very much, wonders if he will grow to hate it shortly after using it in a serious project 21:42:56 -!- pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-60-2.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo_] 21:45:34 stassats: The notion of linking readtables to packages is, quite frankly, horrifying. 21:45:46 nyef: why ? 21:46:07 konr [~user@201.82.132.104] has joined #lisp 21:46:10 For starters, because of inter-package symbol references. 21:46:40 Secondly, because packages are /already/ badly mismatched to modern expectations. 21:46:43 -!- moocow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:47:42 i don't understand your first reason 21:47:42 nyef: "inter-package symbol references" ? 21:48:18 (in-package :foo) (bar:quux) 21:48:20 I'm guessing. 21:48:48 what's the problem with it? 21:49:26 Dunno. I'm just guessing that's what nyef meant. 21:49:45 There are two variables, *package* and *readtable* in the standard. I see no reason to conflate them. 21:49:57 If you want, you can write a amcro that will bind both at the same time... 21:50:03 Even better! 21:50:26 pjb: that argument is flawed 21:50:47 because you can say this about every second feature of CL 21:51:19 What I mean is that they're orthogonal features, and there's no reason to render them dependent one of the other. 21:51:34 and *readtable* isn't analogues to *package* 21:51:48 named-readtables are 21:52:21 pjb: no one forces you to 21:52:41 but most of the time when i'm dealing with readtables, that's exactly what i want 21:52:42 ok. 21:52:48 bedtime 21:52:50 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:53:00 So the word from Guy Steele is, if someone were interested in producing CLTL3 starting from the text of CLTL2, he would, in principle, support it. 21:53:16 ohhh, nice :) 21:53:19 hear hear :) 21:53:22 to make readtables confined to a single package, and not have them globally 21:53:27 There may also be surprises with the debugger, which may or may not reset *package* or *readtable*. 21:53:30 -!- Sikander [~user@5356F49F.cm-6-7d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Time to sleep...] 21:54:19 -!- kclifton [~kclifton@s198-166-45-245.ab.hsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: kclifton] 21:54:31 named-readtables solves that problem, you basically have something like package system for characters 21:54:49 but having two separate package systems doesn't appeal to me 21:57:01 but in truth, i hate reader macros and would happily live without them, but i have to deal with them in other sources 21:58:33 gigamonkey: support how? 21:59:52 There would need to be a three-way conversation between the person wanting to do it, Steele, and Pierson, the publisher of CLTL1 and CLTL2. But Steele would, in principle, be willing to give his blessing to such a project in such a conversation. 22:00:07 manby-ace [~manby-ace@88-96-24-54.dsl.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:00:46 He either owns the copyright on the CLTL2 text or it reverts to him if Pierson lets it go out of print. (He can't remember which, off the top of his head.) So you couldn't make a derived work without his permission. 22:01:53 i see, but is someone really interested? 22:02:09 Dunno. 22:02:24 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@83.222.175.21] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:02:51 there was some interest, but lately cltl3 had been silent 22:02:54 i don't know what kind of spec and in what time frame can i one write as a hobby project 22:02:55 It's probably not the most important thing to have happen in the Lisp world. But it'd be an interesting project. 22:03:11 IMHO it would definitely go better if LW and Franz get interested 22:03:27 there me be a spike of interest, but will it be continuous? 22:04:09 stassats: yeah, you'd have to be moderately crazy. 22:04:23 or find someone crazy enough to pay you 22:04:40 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-43-50.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:05:17 gigamonkey: ooooh shiny 22:05:34 ok, got XCL swank backend to hang half through after connecting, which is something 22:05:50 XCL? 22:06:09 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:06:27 minion: what does XCL mean? 22:06:27 Xenopterygian Common Lisp 22:06:32 lol 22:06:39 p_l|uni: from the author of ABCL; in C++. 22:06:43 something like this, yes 22:06:47 ah, right. Now I remember 22:06:49 minion: XCL? 22:06:50 XCL: XCL is a Common lisp implementation licensed under GPL. http://www.cliki.net/XCL 22:08:11 the license is unclear, though... 22:08:26 (seriously - is it GPLv1, v2, or v3?) 22:08:44 v2 22:09:37 *stassats* is using a welding mask to not look at the sources 22:10:24 stassats: because of IP contamination or because C++ will burn out your eyes? 22:10:37 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-153-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:10:38 Oh, and Guy Steele uses SBCL. 22:10:49 gigamonkey: both 22:11:28 I got a draft article for Code Quarterly the other day that included some code from the Boost library. 22:11:34 the funny thing is that GPLv2 is all fine if you are not doing distribution, i.e. web apps. 22:11:40 That stuff is just scary. 22:11:55 they say the same thing about lisp 22:12:02 Yeah, I suppose they do. 22:12:04 gigamonkey: Google's C++ is supposedly not that bad, but the reasons behind that are considered scary. 22:12:32 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:13:20 i can write scary lisp with my left toe 22:13:28 *p_l|uni* heard murmurs of human sacrifice :P 22:14:26 -!- gnooth_ is now known as gnooth 22:16:40 like (loop do(setq l(read-line)s(position #\ l))until(equal l".")do(set'w(#2=subseq l 0 s))(#1=dotimes(i s)(princ(#2#w i))(#1#(i(1-(parse-integer l :start(1+ s))))(princ w))(write-line w():end i))) 22:16:41 kittens ? 22:17:20 only i forgot what's it doing 22:17:57 lol 22:18:08 it eats kittens 22:18:46 #n# is a good way to make your code more concise 22:20:03 _3b [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:20:06 could be interesting to implement a sexp-compression function via ## (: 22:20:43 *gigamonkey* tries to unimagine that. Ah the burning--it burns. 22:21:14 What is the best place to look for cl libraries? Or is it several places? 22:21:24 Kruppe: Quicklisp 22:21:39 gigamonkey: thanks, I'll check it out! 22:22:39 well quicklisp isn't so good to look for libraries. you could check out cliki.net and cl-user.net first, then install any available libraries with quicklisp 22:23:01 True. Though quicklisp apropos might get you somewhere. 22:24:11 arbscht, gigamonkey: ah ok. yeah quicklisp is a package manager i see. 22:24:27 naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has joined #lisp 22:24:41 Or something like a package manager anyways 22:25:02 "library manager" :) 22:25:20 arbscht: probably a more accurate term yup :) 22:25:24 Guthur [~Guthur@host86-141-209-190.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 22:26:23 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:30:28 -!- symbole` [~user@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:30:29 so fasls from minor version 60 can't be used by sbcl-1.0.43.63 ?? 22:30:44 wbooze: nope 22:30:49 hmmmm 22:31:07 afaik, in reality, two different builds of the same version might be conflicting 22:31:14 i don't know how to get the contribs build 22:31:28 ... is the failing one sb-concurrency? 22:31:43 *p_l|uni* nixed it by bypassing the test 22:32:23 -!- red1ynx [~Dzmitry@91.149.140.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:32:27 they just don't seem to get installed, due to tests failing, but then again there are others like sb-bsd-sockets etc...which also don't get build, at least there are no directory by that name created in /usr/lib/sbcl 22:32:41 -!- tmi [~tmi@198.80-202-113.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: .] 22:32:48 and even when i cut the test -d line in the install.sh they won't get installed 22:33:29 test -d is checkinf if directory exists 22:33:35 asdf, asdf-install, asdf-module.mk, site-systems are the only dirs i see there 22:33:42 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 22:36:46 -!- _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:37:52 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.35.172] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:40:21 -!- Kevara [~Kedavra@unaffiliated/kevara] has quit [Quit: Kevara] 22:43:24 chris_bryant [~chrisbrya@cpe-75-84-188-152.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:47:32 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.115.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 22:48:03 -!- super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:49:57 I've been taking a look at clpython. I can't see docs anywhere - anyone know if there's anything, or is it just a case of reading the code / tests? 22:50:28 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-97-98.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 22:54:07 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:10 upward [~upward@modemcable004.209-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 22:54:30 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.49.192] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:55:37 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:55:39 super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 22:55:47 Man, Lisp, since it doesn't use commas for much of anything else, should have allowed them in numeric literals. 22:56:03 (Yeah, yeah, there could be some ambiguities with backquote to be sorted out.) 22:56:48 _ would have been ok 22:57:04 That too. But really, why not comma. It's so refined. 22:57:26 maybe it would have confused some europeans 22:57:35 :( 22:57:45 those who pay 12,4 euros per litre of petrol 22:57:51 it would actually make parsing numbers harder 22:58:09 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:58:09 yeah, because some of us use comma for decimal sign 22:58:54 and we pay ~1.20EUR/litre :P 22:58:57 So do you use #\. to separate groupings in numbers? 22:59:12 gigamonkey: or spaces. 22:59:17 gigamonkey: spaces 22:59:25 Well, that's easy to parse! ;-) 22:59:28 though I have seen #\. used for grouping 22:59:42 but it's rarer than spaces 22:59:44 galdor [galdor@def92-10-88-162-192-107.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 22:59:51 ikki [~ikki@189.247.115.24] has joined #lisp 23:01:17 So do you call the comma a "decimal point" (when speaking English)? 23:01:41 no 23:02:00 though I recall using "comma" or "coma" dunno exactly which one once 23:03:01 coma isn't a pleasant thing 23:03:13 I guess a language could always allow U+2009 (Thinspace) in numeric literals. 23:03:28 gigamonkey: it's so last year 23:03:39 So are there any programming languages that use #\, as the decimal mark? 23:03:48 Or are all langs US-centric in that regard? 23:04:03 also, comma for radix point is actually ISO standard 23:04:18 i think most should be us centric 23:04:34 the other just deal with locales then... 23:04:50 p_l|uni: what ISO standard. (I see mention of one for blueprints on Wikipedia) 23:05:15 blueprints ? 23:05:16 wbooze: Wait, wait... All the contribs fail? Check output/building-contrib/* for silly stuff like a mention of #P"~/.clc/whatever". 23:05:18 In 1958, disputes between European and American delegates over the correct representation of the decimal mark nearly stalled the development of the ALGOL computer programming language.[5] ALGOL ended up allowing different decimal marks, but most computer languages and standard data formats (e.g. C, Java, Fortran, Cascading Style Sheets (CSS)) specify a dot. 23:05:22 gigamonkey: for blueprints 23:05:41 probably some documentation standard. I'm not a specialist on that :) 23:06:09 nyef: heh thank you, i could never figure that out myself 23:06:12 buffling 23:07:09 And if you /do/ see the .clc thing, there's a bug in launchpad about it, but it's because of the debian config files in /etc being read. 23:07:36 nyef: fixed in 1.0.43.58 23:07:44 Really? Cool. 23:08:12 *nyef* was paying more attention to the closure environment thing, which /still/ isn't working right. 23:08:43 Are there any interesting ideas in Arc? 23:08:51 As soon as it's enabled for UWPs, -boom-. 23:10:49 gigamonkey: kenny tilton might have a reasonable answer for that. he seemed to evaluate it thoroughly. 23:11:03 gigamonkey: a lot of other people (myself included) couldn't seem to stifle the gag reflex enough. 23:11:11 nyef: i don't have clc installed, and second component "sb-bsd-sockets" not found error mentioned only in the building-contrib.sb-bsd-sockets file 23:11:34 *stassats* finally came up with a way to print something N times in format: (format t "~v@{~A~1:*~}" 4 "a") => aaaa 23:11:42 I wonder how CL centric the crowd at ILC is going to be. 23:11:57 wbooze: Put the file somewhere we can look at? 23:12:04 jup 23:12:56 next challenge: print Fibonacci numbers with format 23:13:37 gigamonkey: Clojure is doing some pretty interesting stuff. 23:13:42 nyef: http://paste.lisp.org/+2H7L 23:13:55 for the sb-bsd-sockets case only 23:15:56 i guess i need somehow to use ~? for that 23:16:09 Adamant: yeah, I know Clojure is worth looking at. 23:16:29 Scala's also pretty cool if you like Haskell/ML 23:16:36 Google is taunting me with talk of an article by Kenny about Arc but not actually showing me where it is. 23:17:08 Ah, found it. http://smuglispweeny.blogspot.com/2008/02/meaningless-first-impressions-of-arc.html 23:17:17 Why does drakma use LENGTH to calculate content-length and not something that actually considers external-format-out? 23:17:54 I just spent the last six hours trying to figure out why CouchDB was rejecting my utf-8 strings. 23:17:56 "No matter whether I reach for the #3 Torx driver or the articulating socket wrench extender I come up with the same vice-grip. I doubt I will ever get over this." 23:19:16 nevermind, Edi addressed it here: http://www.mail-archive.com/drakma-devel@common-lisp.net/msg00126.html 23:19:58 I learned a lot about debugging this application, though, so that's good. 23:20:29 I think ABCL is a more a palatable method of targeting the JVM 23:20:47 I don't like the look of Clojure 23:21:56 gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:22:37 perhaps because you're not used to it 23:22:48 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-97-98.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:23:07 did you like the look of CL the first time you saw it? 23:23:56 stassats Don't really want to get used to [] 23:24:01 don't see the need 23:24:14 so they say about () 23:24:16 wbooze: I can't come up with an explanation for that, but my first reaction is to blame Fare. I'm trying a build of .63 now, to see if it happens on my system. 23:25:07 stassats: well there is a need for something, even if it is significant indentation 23:26:21 which then still uses parenthesis to delimit some lists 23:27:51 damn, writing programs in FORMAT is hard 23:28:53 -!- super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:29:13 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@host86-141-209-190.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:35:04 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.204.47] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 23:36:06 stassats: but fun! 23:36:25 *gigamonkey* is a bit sad that FORMAT is not Turing complete. 23:37:58 is this proved? 23:38:22 stassats: I don't have the math chops to prove it but I convinced myself of it once. 23:38:44 i'm convinced too, but i'm nevertheless trying 23:38:45 I think the looping operator is not quite flexible enough. 23:39:42 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:40:19 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:40:34 super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 23:41:20 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633277.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: hugod] 23:42:38 Oh great, I got FORMAT in an infinite loop and C-c C-c can't kill it. 23:42:46 Thanks a lot, stassats. 23:42:57 you're welcome! 23:44:49 Anyone going to ILC want to beta-test my talk sometime before Wednesday? 23:45:16 Why should it be someone going to ILC? 23:45:38 Because that's where I'll be. I mean actually sit there while I practice giving it. 23:45:44 gigamonkey: and i blew up stack with format 23:46:08 with (format t "~@?~@*~@?" "~@?~@*~@?" "10") 23:46:15 stassats: I think the thing is you can loop forever but you can't control enough to break out of the loop. 23:46:43 what about using ~// ? 23:46:48 p_l|uni: cheating 23:46:59 Yeah, well you said "~@?~@*~@?" to FORMAT and it said, "@#$%@#" back to you. 23:47:09 gigamonkey: sorry, I assumed the Internet. 23:47:13 -!- BrianRice-mb [~briantric@75-94-47-26.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Quit: BrianRice-mb] 23:47:25 pjb: understandable. 23:47:26 (roll-back (year 1968)) 23:47:47 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 23:47:56 gigamonkey: can't you use children for that? 23:48:20 Neighbor's children, perhaps. 23:48:35 Well, if I could hold my four-year-old's attention through a 45 minute talk about Lisp, I'd be pretty sure to be riveting. 23:49:14 Though she might like the idea of "Open Source Faeries" 23:49:39 new-lisper [~daniel@c95334ae.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 23:50:10 wasn't Land of Lisp to be released yesterday? 23:50:26 wbooze: Unable to reproduce. Maybe you've got some custom configuration interfering somehow? 23:51:08 no, i pull it afresh from cvs, then cd into that dir, then try to compile, and most of the contribs just fail 23:51:18 new-lisper: I heard it's gone to the printer. I think I'll be getting a review copy when it's out and I haven't received it yet. 23:52:19 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483BA90.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:52:19 I meant a custom ASDF configuration. 23:52:21 nyef: http://paste.lisp.org/+2H7N 23:52:30 gigamonkey: I was asking because until yesterday the release day was presented on Amazon as Oct 15th 2010. 23:52:43 What does it say now? 23:53:04 gigamonkey: It doesn't give any release date. 23:53:24 I see October 29th. 23:53:27 gigamonkey: as of the last time I looked at it, like four hours ago 23:53:39 nyef: this is debian, i didn't install any of the cl-* packages, and i don't know if clc or cl-asdf from the distro is interfering in any way... 23:54:05 nyef: ok the only package cl specific installed is cl-asdf 23:54:21 Right, I'm suggesting that something /might/ still be interfering, even after the "fix" that pkhuong mentioned. 23:55:28 gigamonkey: so they've updated on the last hours. sweet, it'll be released in october anyway. I thought the release date would be postponed by more than three weeks. 23:55:48 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:56:05 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:56:18 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 23:56:35 Release dates of books, like those of software, should really be given in units that get more precise over time. 23:56:47 Starting with "some time this decade" 23:57:32 didn't work for DNF 23:57:53 :)