00:01:23 psilord [~psilord@adsl-71-150-251-181.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:01:24 -!- psilord [~psilord@adsl-71-150-251-181.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 00:01:30 thanks.. I must be doing something wrong :) 00:01:35 *epoxy* takes another look 00:08:13 Probably got the paren nesting wrong, given that COND has a... somewhat unusual structure. 00:08:19 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@221.220.254.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:08:35 What's the customary file extension for patches? .patch? 00:08:44 That, or .diff. 00:08:56 Ah, .diff seems to make sense. 00:09:13 (Since they're two sides of the same process, one forwards and one backwards.) 00:09:48 -!- Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-tlunbhjukiuiwwir] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:09:48 -!- serichsen [~user@f048165088.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Good night!] 00:10:32 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-128-10.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:10:36 -!- cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:12:32 pizdets [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:52 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:13:01 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:18:49 Should the patch be sent as an attachment on included inline in the email? 00:19:57 Probably inline?... What if later I have a really big patch with lots of involved files? Would that then be better to add it as an attachment? 00:24:38 Hexstream: always as attachment 00:24:51 fe[nl]ix: Oh. Glad I asked, then. 00:26:03 -!- Jubb [~ghost@129.21.86.138] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:28:53 Patch sent! :D 00:29:12 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 00:29:28 <_3b> 1 patch can handle multiple files, so that isn't an issue. inlining it breaks the formatting though, so attaching is best 00:32:12 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.2.85] has joined #lisp 00:35:24 How would I generate a patch for multiple files? 00:36:14 git commit and then format-patch ? 00:36:40 Git produces the exact same format of patch than diff -u? 00:36:47 i think so yes 00:37:05 Ah, that's cool. I'll do it like this next time. 00:37:22 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 00:38:27 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-128-10.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 00:38:28 ... but surely people were generating patches for multiple files before git existed? ;P 00:38:30 -!- dborba [~dborba@pool-74-105-202-55.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:38:48 *_3b* would use diff -Naur, but doesn't remember what the specific options there do 00:39:10 true.. i do remember clearly multifile diff patches back in the day. =) 00:39:21 <_3b> well, -u is unified diff, and r is recursive, dunno about a and N though 00:40:14 <_3b> i think git patch isn't exactly the same as a diff patch, but is probably better for a project using git anyway 00:41:12 _3b: cl-utilities seems to be on CVS still... Unless that's some stale info. 00:41:22 I think N might be to diff new files against /dev/null. 00:41:50 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-128-10.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:42:12 -!- TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@124-171-93-112.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:42:20 I mean, SVN. 00:42:51 <_3b> cvs and svn probably have some way to get a patch without having a separate unmodified tree, which might be more convenient than just diff 00:43:48 there is also a way to bring in svn to git, in a painless manner, it may or may not help the situation but its possble. =) 00:44:27 *_3b* wouldn't call git-svn exactly 'painless' on an old repo, but worth a bit of wait for something you plan to do much work on 00:44:55 "cvs diff" comes to mind. 00:46:24 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.50.120] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:47:30 *Xach* puts in a plug for http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1778333 00:47:58 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 00:49:42 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 00:49:42 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A5E09.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:51:01 cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 00:51:34 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has joined #lisp 00:52:38 -!- drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:52:54 -!- phrixos [~clarkema@bs0176.nerc-bas.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:54:18 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-249-110.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:55:20 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-58-28-211.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:55:24 Xach: oh release for the public? awesome :) 00:56:09 -!- smanek [~smanek@c-98-206-218-88.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:56:25 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-128-10.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 01:00:09 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-249-110.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:03:40 -!- Edward_ [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-22-51.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 01:04:43 schmrkc: you knew that already! 01:04:54 Xach: No I didn't :( 01:05:15 don't you read planet lisp, lisp.reddit.com, lisp-hug@lispworks.com, facebook, or twitter? 01:05:19 I have been waiting for this so I could give quicklisp a try :) 01:05:24 weeeelll. 01:05:33 I read planet lisp every other month or so. 01:05:48 where's lisp on facebook? 01:05:54 :| 01:06:23 on the frontpages 01:06:25 lol 01:06:32 what the. 01:06:40 tbh I don't really understand how to use facebook. 01:06:52 I mostly use it to spam tic 01:08:01 it is unknown if anyone really knows how to use it or what for =) 01:08:07 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-135-206-229.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 01:08:49 http://www.facebook.com/pages/Quicklisp/107319045997122 01:09:49 Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has joined #lisp 01:10:36 -!- kmc [kmc@clozure-5A26C47B.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: kmc] 01:13:37 -!- SCVirus [~B234651@S0106001345655973.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:16:13 mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:16:16 SCVirus [~B234651@S0106001345655973.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:17:10 hey y'all 01:17:36 what's the difference between hunchentoot vs weblocks? 01:17:49 and what's _the_ common lisp implementation to use? 01:18:00 I'm a schemer (racketeer), thought I should check out CL a bit 01:18:00 <_3b> hunchentoot is just a http server, weblocks is a whole framework? 01:18:23 mheld: most people use SBCL and a lot of people use Clozure CL. 01:18:26 hmm 01:18:28 *_3b* uses sbcl and ccl, ecl and clisp or a few others for special purposes 01:18:28 "The" implementation to use is typically one of CCL or SBCL, though CLISP and ECL have their adherents. 01:18:31 mheld: other lisps have a lot of users, too. 01:18:37 anyone have experience with lisp shells under *nix? 01:18:44 similar or better than bash :> 01:18:45 what about arc? 01:19:06 <_3b> mheld: this channel is about common lisp, so not too many arc users 01:19:28 is arc not a common lisp? 01:19:29 -!- me345 [~me345@adsl-75-15-176-124.dsl.bkfd14.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:19:36 mheld: It's not. 01:19:43 arc is some Scheme dialect. 01:19:50 ah 01:20:10 Is slime-asdf part of slime-fancy? 01:20:39 <_3b> doesn't look like it 01:20:59 Hraban: there's scsh , also a scheme. 01:21:33 is there a major difference between sbcl and clozure cl? 01:21:42 mheld: more than one. 01:21:43 gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:21:51 mheld: when just starting, it probably won't make a huge difference. 01:22:28 mheld: It's quite easy to switch, and 99.9% of what you write will work in both. 01:22:54 ah 01:23:01 so safer to start with sbcl? 01:23:18 smanek [~smanek@c-98-206-218-88.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:23:21 mheld: neither is a risky proposition. 01:23:31 starting with gcl would give you and me headaches. 01:23:35 -!- pizdets [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 01:24:09 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 01:24:48 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:25:04 (Less than 99.9% of what I write will work in both SBCL and CCL, but that's because I do low-level things in SBCL on a regular basis.) 01:25:16 Heh, I started with GCL, that was a mistake. 01:25:28 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:28:09 TraumaPwny [~TraumaPon@124-148-55-19.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 01:28:20 -!- TraumaPwny is now known as TraumaPony 01:29:10 I started with CMUCL. And the reason I switched was that SBCL had modular arithmetic far sooner than CMUCL did, and I had some 32-bit, 33-bit, and 48-bit integers I was slinging around, and the boxing and unboxing was killing me. 01:29:48 *Xach* also started with CMUCL, switched to SBCL because he mistakenly thought it was faster when it was actually just always compiling everything 01:31:01 mek||malloc [~mek@12.230.222.196] has joined #lisp 01:31:14 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 01:31:19 In my case, it actually /was/ faster for my workload. 01:32:12 (Of course, my workload also started getting tuned to the performance profile of SBCL (and, to a lesser degree, CMUCL).) 01:33:06 i think ILISP worked better for me on sbcl than cmucl, too 01:33:15 How exactly do packages work in common lisp? Without specifying packages, will any file in the same directory have access to one another's functions? 01:33:37 mek||malloc: you need to load dem files for starters. 01:33:50 mek||malloc: you can't not use packages. if you don't specify, you might get everything defined in the cl-user package. 01:34:15 mek||malloc: it's usually better to create a package and work within it to get predictable package contents and relationships. 01:34:23 <_3b> cl 'packages' don't have anything to do with files, they are just a map from strings to symbols 01:34:49 I was surprised to find that my more recent mode for hacking on SBCL didn't involve SLIME /at all/, but instead involved working through an emacs *shell* buffer. 01:34:53 clhs in-package 01:34:53 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_in_pkg.htm 01:35:00 mek||malloc: that's your friend :) 01:35:02 Thanks everyone. 01:35:07 schmrkc: I shall check it out. 01:35:07 <_3b> cl also doesn't have any restrictions on symbol visibility, if you know the name and package of a symbol, you can access it 01:35:28 _3b: watch out, the pedants will get you! 01:35:44 <_3b> (but if it isn't exported from that package, you are responsible for any bad side effects of using it) 01:35:45 -!- kslt1 [~Sierka1@netblock-208-127-156-74.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:36:01 <_3b> Xach: well, if they try, i'll cough on them and give them my sore throat :p 01:36:31 oh to dare grep _3b's source tree for :: 01:36:33 dborba [~dborba@pool-74-105-202-55.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:36:45 <_3b> (pedants are invited to correct my rambling though) 01:36:51 schmrkc: I apologize for my ignorance but I am having a hard time understanding how to apply that specification 01:37:00 schmrkc: It's worse than that: Grep the SBCL source tree for ::. 01:37:52 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:37:58 mek||malloc: basically you just put (in-package foo) at the top of your source file and all of it well end up in the specified package. 01:38:13 "foo" maybe even. 01:38:41 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 01:38:51 hmm no 01:38:52 :foo 01:38:55 *schmrkc* sighs. 01:39:08 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl15-226-229.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:39:23 mek||malloc: make a package.lisp for the package def first though :) 01:39:44 Would you recommend weblocks or uncommon web for developing a maybe quite bit desktop like web application? 01:39:51 schmrkc: Once all of my files subscribe to said package... (in-package :graph-search) for instance, they will have access to all of the functions throughout without having to individuall load each file? 01:40:10 mek||malloc: you will need to load all files. 01:40:15 Or just using parenscript, cl-who etc... 01:40:19 <_3b> mek||malloc: to repeat... files and packages are completely unrelated 01:40:36 mek||malloc: and when they are loaded stuff gets put in what *package* is set to. 01:40:44 <_3b> mek||malloc: cl 'package' is more like a 'namespace' in some languages 01:40:56 mek||malloc: so you could possibly put in-package in just the first one you load.. I like to put it in all files really. 01:41:01 peterhil: If it's a web application, you will need a web server component for the browser to talk to. That will also be one of your major design uncertainties until you decide on one. 01:41:08 _3b: That makes sense. 01:41:29 peterhil: That said, you might also consider hunchentoot. 01:41:30 <_3b> mek||malloc: we use the term 'system' for groups of files making up a project, managed by ASDF 01:41:55 In a language like C or Java, for instance, a file has access to other classes, templates, etc, within the same directory. 01:42:03 I am guessing it is not the same situation for CL? 01:42:05 peterhil: And I wouldn't recommend worrying too much about which one is best, just pick one and get some experience with it. 01:42:11 Well, c++ rather 01:42:11 mek||malloc: it is not the same situation in CL, correct. 01:42:15 -!- joekarma [~joe@S0106001b63ab3433.vc.shawcable.net] has left #lisp 01:42:33 <_3b> mek||malloc: not sure what you mean about c/c++, unless they have changed a lot sice i last used them 01:42:55 mek||malloc: you can have things defined in the same file and have them end up in different packages 01:42:58 _3b: I was just the differentiation between object oriented-ness 01:42:59 mek||malloc: (if you like) 01:43:03 nyef: Yes, I have thought of using hunchentoot, and using it may not be out of question. BTW, how does mod_lisp compare to hunchentoot in serving lisp apps? 01:43:14 mek||malloc: http://xach.livejournal.com/130040.html is something I wrote about my process of starting a CL project, including a bit about packages and loading libraries. 01:43:27 peterhil: http://xach.livejournal.com/144475.html 01:43:31 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-135-206-229.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:43:35 <_3b> mek||malloc: neither c or c++ cares about directories... if you include something using the preprocessor, the code can see it... if not, it can't 01:43:40 schmrkc: I am just trying to factor out some of my code so it's not all in the same file... But there are tons of dependencies between the sections. 01:43:42 I don't know. I'm not big on the whole "web" thing, and the lisp web things I do hack on still use araneida of all things. 01:43:42 peterhil: mod_lisp does not do anything especially lisp-specific 01:44:03 And you might well be happier with mod_proxy instead of mod_lisp. 01:44:28 Is there something that would be equivalent to an "import 01:44:38 <_3b> mek||malloc: in c/c++ you usually use make or some IDE to make sure everything is compiled in the right order, etc... ASDF serves a similar purpose in CL 01:45:03 mek||malloc: you might want to download a Lisp library or application and see how it structures files, how it organizes things into packages, how it loads with ASDF, etc. 01:45:07 <_3b> CL's normal ode of use differs from C/C++ though, so the correspondence isn't exact 01:45:13 mek||malloc: that's not much of a problem. you use asdf to (defsystem :foo :components (:file "foo1") (:file "stuffs"))) 01:45:13 Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-bfgnwgnaubfbigxd] has joined #lisp 01:45:14 peterhil: I don't hear about a lot of people using mod_lisp these days. I've been playing with weblocks and should have a first tutorial blog post up about it by next weekend. UCW and Weblocks are both relatively undocumented for my taste. 01:45:18 Xach: Ok, thanks 01:45:25 peterhil: Seems most just Hunchentoot+Postmodern+Cl-Who, etc. 01:45:49 Hunchentoot, being ediware, is bound to have a certain standard of documentation. 01:45:54 schmrkc: Ah, that makes sense. Thanks! 01:46:04 mek||malloc: right. and do what Xach suggests :) 01:46:12 and forget about files. they're evil :) 01:46:25 maybe each symbol in a project should have its own file. 01:46:26 hmmm 01:46:37 nyef: Indeed! So...you keep teasing about getting back around to the arm port in the #sbcl logs... what's up with that? :) 01:47:48 *FareWell* does a new, dreaded, pass on fare-quasiquote 01:48:20 redline6561: My local port log includes entries for May 24th, and October 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 7th, and the entry for the 7th is basically a comment on how I've been going about it all wrong and what I should have been doing instead. 01:48:26 fare-quasiquote's simplifier was broken and disabled. Now I need it again, to work with either fare-matcher or the future racket-like scribble reader. 01:48:35 quasiquote is hellish 01:48:54 nyef: Ouch. Well, knowing is half the battle. 01:48:56 *FareWell* wonders whether to base new implementation on cltl2 or sbcl. 01:50:09 Indeed. It doesn't help that this sort of thing is rarely done, and seemingly never with the kind of paper trail that would truly be helpful. 01:50:40 Hraban, do you know any lisp shell? 01:50:49 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 01:51:43 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Disconnected by services] 01:51:46 -!- FareWell is now known as Fare 01:51:53 Would I just create a package.lisp and have (defpackage :my-package (:use :common-lisp)) to define the package a directory level and then have a my-package.asd file which describes what files each entity in the package has access to? 01:51:58 There's clash, which is basically clisp with a reader macro for shell commands. 01:52:19 FareWell [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 01:52:21 http://clisp.sourceforge.net/clash.html 01:52:22 mek||malloc, yup. I think quicklisp has a command to initialize a project like that 01:52:34 pjb: does that count, really? 01:52:37 Fare: Thanks, I'll give it a shot. 01:52:41 I made something called Quickproject to do that, but it's broken. 01:52:44 <_3b> mek||malloc: you are still getting the package concept wrong i think 01:52:45 Fare: Why not? 01:52:58 I misunderstood ASDF2's ability to incrementally extend the source registry. 01:53:07 *Xach* files an issue 01:53:07 Xach: what ability? 01:53:13 oh noes! 01:53:25 please, some new asdf maintainer, step forward! 01:53:30 Yes, please. 01:53:41 *Fare* is strictly in maintenance mode 01:53:41 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-1-3.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 01:53:44 It couldn't possibly be worse. 01:53:48 that bad? 01:53:51 Disastrous. 01:53:55 :-( 01:53:59 Much worse than doing absolutely nothing. 01:53:59 do you have a solution? 01:54:03 how so? 01:54:14 can't you create a file and re-initialize? 01:54:23 That is bullshit. 01:54:26 ? 01:54:37 push to the central registry? 01:54:48 A great advance from ASDF1, that! 01:55:06 maintain your own central-registry-alike, then use it as parameter to initialize-source-registry ? 01:55:10 That's yesterday's problem, anyway. 01:55:26 Today's problem is the addition and subsequent removal of asdf-utilities, causing broken fasls when upgrading. 01:55:41 Three users today bitten by that problem. 01:55:41 ok, so you want me to first expand the source-registry to a single form that I will save, then interpret that form? 01:55:54 sorry about that. 01:55:56 Fare: I'll let the new maintainer do that. 01:56:19 asdf-utilities was a bad move by me. Apologies. 01:56:29 is there a common lisp for schemers tutorial anywhere? 01:56:32 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-34-94.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 01:56:41 Fare: adding it was bad and removing it was bad. 01:56:51 :( 01:57:38 Fare: does asdf2 expose the mechanism by which it finds .asd files in trees? 01:58:26 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-69-60.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:58:42 you mean, function register-asd-directory ? 01:58:47 it's not exported, but could be 01:59:54 mheld, if you can't find one, you may write one 02:00:17 mheld: none come to mind, but you could start by reading the Lisp-1/Lisp-2 paper by Kent Pitman. http://www.nhplace.com/kent/Papers/Technical-Issues.html 02:00:40 mheld: jfgi scheme common-lisp differences 02:01:04 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:01:57 pjb: I shall 02:01:57 mheld: then check clhs for these operators: funcall apply function mapcar symbol-function symbol-value defvar defparameter let let* defun flet labels ; that should give a taste of the main differences. 02:02:07 Fare: gracias 02:02:35 and indeed, google works well too :-) 02:02:53 *pjb* going to bed. Good night! 02:03:18 thanks pjb! 02:03:19 'night 02:03:46 there are enough differences that what is colloquial in one isn't in the other 02:04:20 also, the concept of "toplevel form" is important in CL as in Scheme, but with different language choices. 02:04:43 oh, and EVAL-WHEN is a mess (read my blog about it, someday, for -1d6 SAN) 02:05:28 I am still a bit confused on the :file "file" :depends-on format of asd... If I had three files (for example) "math" "english" and "driver" and they were all in the same directory and there was a package.lisp in the directory, and every file subscribed under the package name "my-package", would every file in that directory have access to the functions in every other file? 02:06:02 mek||malloc, at runtime, yes. At compile-time, no. 02:06:09 As long as I specify in my file.asd that each file :depends-on("package") ? 02:06:25 mek||malloc, as long as you only actually call functions at runtime, the order of definition doesn't matter 02:06:53 now, if we're talking about packages, special variables, macros, and compile-time functions, then order DOES matter 02:07:38 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:07:39 mek||malloc, in the extreme case, you could even have a module that depends on package that has all your files, with no dependencies 02:07:44 Fare: I'm simply try to make a very simply program Driver which uses a few other files... So a user only has to type clisp driver.lisp 02:08:22 mek||malloc: that isn't a well-supported use case in general. 02:08:32 mek||malloc, in such cases... use cl-launch 02:08:35 <_3b> mek||malloc: packages only have symbols in them 02:08:52 I feel like it would be easier just to include everything in the same file. 02:08:55 But that would be disgusting. 02:09:05 <_3b> the symbols in a package might name a function or variable, but that doesn't happen until the file that defines that function/variable is loaded 02:09:58 There's no way to tell a file file1.lisp to load the definitions from file2.lisp when it is called? 02:10:04 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:10:12 <_3b> clhs load 02:10:13 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_load.htm 02:10:21 <_3b> (note that that isn't a /good/ way to do that though) 02:11:55 What is the best way to do it? All I am trying to do is partition my code into files 02:11:59 Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has joined #lisp 02:12:05 <_3b> if you are writing something for end-users that don't know about lisp, but you don't want to build them a binary, it might be reasonable to have a lisp file that loads everything, possibly using asdf, or LOAD (and maybe compile-file) directly 02:12:18 <_3b> did you read Xach's link earlier? 02:12:20 mek||malloc: the best way is to set up a system using asdf. 02:12:32 _3b: I did and I started building a ".asd" file 02:12:48 But I said I was confused about the :file "file" :depends-on syntax 02:12:55 mek||malloc: for what it's worth, I don't use :depends-on any more. 02:13:09 mek||malloc: i use an option :serial t, which means "compile and load files in the order they are listed" 02:13:13 mek||malloc: :depends-on is if your system depends on other packages. like :clx or some such. 02:13:18 <_3b> for most uses, it is easier to just use :serial t rather than specifying specific dependencies 02:13:37 hmmm 02:13:38 right 02:13:38 schmrkc: at a file level, it can express inter-file relationships. 02:13:41 *schmrkc* is confused. 02:13:46 Xach: yes I am wrong. 02:13:53 but who on earth uses that? :) 02:14:04 schmrkc: I used to. It seemed like a good idea at the time. 02:14:16 yeah. 02:14:19 So if I do... (defsystem my-package ((:file "package") (:file "math") (:file "english") (:file "driver") and I run driver... which uses functions defined in "math", that will work? 02:14:27 *_3b* could see using it if i had a tool to maintain it, and a parallel build tool or something 02:14:28 I used it.. until I realised it made things complicated with no gain. 02:14:45 mek||malloc: "run" driver? 02:14:47 mek||malloc: provided they all get loaded into the same package, yes. 02:14:53 <_3b> mek||malloc: you don't 'run' driver, you load the asdf system 02:15:07 <_3b> mek||malloc: which if you add the :serial t option, would load those files in order 02:15:14 mek||malloc, see cl-launch for loading the system then executing a main function 02:15:20 mek||malloc: just put (in-package :my-package) at the top and don't change *package* anywhere and you're golden. 02:15:47 mek||malloc, start by cargo-culting some software that works 02:15:52 schmrkc: I'll give it a try. Thanks for your patience everyone. I apologize. 02:16:04 Fare: I have been doing that with a cffi-cairo graphics package 02:16:12 mek||malloc: don't tell anyone we were patient! we have a reputation to uphold. 02:16:12 Just to see how it is done 02:16:18 mek||malloc: you're better off forgetting about files :) they're something for you to organize things into. your lisp doesn't care about your files. 02:16:29 mek||malloc: that might be more complicated than it needs to be as a first thing to study. 02:21:19 Last question for a while, I hope... And thanks again. Is there a way to load a file within a slime session? 02:21:44 mek||malloc: (load "file.lisp") 02:21:55 Great! Thank you Xach. 02:22:10 mek||malloc: you can compile and load a file you're visiting with C-c C-k 02:22:16 or just load it with C-c C-l 02:22:20 -!- epoxy [~ls3@71-15-26-216.dhcp.hlrg.nc.charter.com] has left #lisp 02:22:49 Xach: What do you mean by compiling and loading a file you're "visiting"? 02:23:07 Xach: Do you mean a file that is currently loaded in a buffer? 02:23:33 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has joined #lisp 02:24:08 Yes. 02:24:33 Xach: Oh, neat. 02:24:57 <_3b> C-c C-c and M-C-x are neater :) 02:25:16 mek||malloc: I use C-c C-c about a thousand times more than C-c C-k, though. That compiles & loads an individual form. 02:34:10 For some reason I am getting an error "MY-PACKAGE" does not designate any package 02:34:25 mek||malloc: What did you do when you got that message? 02:34:40 <_3b> you need to load the package.lisp file, or evaluate the defpackage for before trying to use the package 02:34:50 Xach: (load "dictionary.lisp") within slime 02:35:24 Which happens to be one of the files in the package I made. 02:35:45 mek||malloc: how did you make the package? 02:35:47 But it is listed in my package.lisp file and include (in-package :my-package) 02:36:09 mek||malloc: what does "listed in" mean? 02:36:47 Ah, listed as a file in the my-package.asd 02:36:53 mek||malloc: You didn't have asdf load the system. 02:37:17 echo-area [~echo-area@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 02:37:29 schmrkc: How do I go about doing that? 02:37:33 mek||malloc: you can use (asdf:load-system "my-package") to compile and load the files in the order in which they need to be loaded. 02:37:46 mek||malloc: if you wrote the asd file correctly. 02:38:22 provided asdf can find your .asd 02:38:34 that too 02:39:18 Xach: I hope I did, all I have is (defsystem my package :components ((:file "package") (:file "dictionary" :depends-on("package"))) for example 02:39:41 And a few other files listed identically to the :file "dictionary" line 02:39:46 I hope you have it named my-package 02:40:00 schmrkc: The file is my-package.asd 02:40:10 mek||malloc: please paste the whole file on the pastebin 02:40:13 lisppaste: url 02:40:17 hmm 02:40:22 I guess that didn't work. 02:41:25 woo, http://news.ycombinator.com/ is showing some Quicklisp love. 02:41:58 http://paste.lisp.org/display/115403 02:43:11 ah cools. 02:43:51 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-147-129.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 02:43:57 mek||malloc: maybe put a :serial t ahead of components and skip the depends-on. .. also there seems to be a ( missing at the start. 02:44:19 mek||malloc: but you need to have your lisp load that file. using (asdf:load-system "my-package") 02:44:24 mek||malloc: with that system file, driver might be compiled and loaded before util or dictionary (or anything else, except package) 02:44:39 schmrkc: I will give that a try. Thanks. 02:44:43 l 02:44:44 more like (asdf:load-system "lispak") 02:45:05 Xach: Right, I made that connection, I was using my-package as a generic example. 02:45:05 ah right :) 02:45:56 mek||malloc: you might have to push the path of the directory where that .asd is located to asdf:*central-registry* 02:46:09 or symlink (: 02:46:15 -!- ost``` [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:46:15 ost```` [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 02:47:06 -!- ragnul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:47:21 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: nighty night] 02:47:24 *Fare* tries to wrap his head around sbcl's backq.lisp 02:47:40 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:47:56 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:48:39 -!- Kaer [b@c-cfcee253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:48:50 Kaer [b@c-cfcee253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 02:48:58 Hmm, Symbol "LOAD-SYSTEM" not found in the ASDF package. 02:49:10 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-249-110.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:49:21 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 02:49:34 mek||malloc: ah, darn. you might try (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op "lispak") instead 02:49:57 *schmrkc* hugs SBCL's REQUIRE 02:50:01 dys` [~andreas@krlh-5f72e5ae.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 02:50:11 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-249-110.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:50:13 This seems to have worked! 02:50:15 Thank you kindly. 02:50:24 (: 02:53:17 -!- dys [~andreas@krlh-5f72c75b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:54:13 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:54:27 mek||malloc, you must be using an old asdf. Are you using an old sbcl? 02:54:52 Fare: I think he uses clisp. 02:56:48 Fare: I am currently using clisp as schmrkc suggested. 02:57:44 clisp doesn't come with asdf. Where did you get your asdf? You might want to get an updated one... possibly through quicklisp 02:57:44 It is buggy and prevents me from using stumpwm which is garbage. 02:58:00 is quicklisp released? 02:58:07 I manually installed it a while ago, actually. 02:58:09 there's public beta 02:58:19 ah okay, time to move over from clbuild 02:58:24 Dawgmatix: don't you read planet lisp, lisp.reddit.com, lisp-hug@lispworks.com, facebook, or twitter? 02:58:30 mek||malloc, must have been a year ago or more 02:58:37 Dawgmatix: I was just as surprised as you were :) 02:58:44 Dawgmatix: or hacker news?! 02:59:02 half the lisp propaganda on hn comes from me ;) 02:59:04 mek||malloc, since last year, asdf2 has been released, a major cleanup 02:59:14 mek||malloc: What is preventing you from using stumpwm? 02:59:27 (though to my shame there have been 9 minor releases to fix bugs, since asdf 2.000) 02:59:31 but off late ive cut my reading, because i realised i can either learn about cool things that others (like xach) do 02:59:58 or maybe i could build something myself 03:00:28 schmrkc: cl-asdf package encounters a stack overflow and crashes. 03:00:37 mek||malloc: That's hillarious. 03:00:43 mek||malloc: You could just use sbcl :) 03:00:52 schmrkc: I should. 03:01:10 p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 03:01:23 I know a decent amount about lisp as a family of languages but I know little to nothing about implementation specific details 03:01:45 sbcl rocks, ccl is a close second ;) 03:02:04 mek||malloc: pretty much what you want in the implementation area is ccl or sbcl. Unless you have some special use cases that require the Others. 03:02:18 not sure how well stump works with ccl. 03:02:45 well gnite folks 03:02:49 schmrkc: I'll keep that in mind. 03:02:51 Night Dawgmatix 03:03:00 Dawgmatix: night 03:04:53 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 03:05:00 ... Night? The day is just starting... ;-) 03:06:59 yeah.. 5 am. almost bedtime 03:11:55 -!- timack [~tim@hlfx54-1-40.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:13:25 leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has joined #lisp 03:14:57 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-249-110.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:14:59 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-249-110.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:15:20 Thank you all again for your help. I am a happy lispnik, back to writing mediocre code! 03:15:39 Until next time 03:15:40 -!- mek||malloc [~mek@12.230.222.196] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:16:53 mediocre, eh? I wish I was up to that level. 03:17:38 -!- dborba [~dborba@pool-74-105-202-55.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:17:46 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:18:05 BrianRice-mb [~briantric@c-98-246-165-205.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:18:13 antivigilante [~antivigil@ip98-177-157-69.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:18:46 -!- TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@124-148-55-19.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Disconnected by services] 03:19:07 -!- TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-76-175-244-227.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:19:32 TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@124-171-208-86.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 03:20:08 Good morning everyone! 03:20:14 morning beach 03:25:36 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has quit [Quit: rich_holygoat] 03:30:49 -!- LiamH [~nobody@pool-141-156-214-211.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:32:08 reading the on-line version of let over lambda, looks well written. 03:33:05 dborba [~dborba@pool-74-105-202-55.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:33:32 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:33:46 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Changing host] 03:33:46 tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #lisp 03:34:42 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 03:35:22 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:35:59 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 03:36:56 -!- kmc [kmc@clozure-5A26C47B.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: kmc] 03:37:03 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:38:14 *p_l|uni* admires QPX once more 03:39:08 it's like enabling god mode for air travel 03:40:26 -!- xcthulhu [~jpd@pine.noqsi.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:40:50 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-zhwdnvbtegmdtydi] has joined #lisp 03:41:20 -!- wuj [~wuj@pool-74-108-204-117.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:42:07 p_l|uni: are you able to use it? 03:42:33 pjb: how do you think I check my airfares? :D 03:42:43 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 03:43:02 the only time I check anywhere else is when I'm flying low-cost, which only happened few times 03:43:16 Is it publicly available? 03:43:36 pjb: http://matrix.itasoftware.com 03:44:26 mind you, it doesn't have flights from lines like WizzAir or Ryanair, but the normal ones are well represented 03:44:37 Oh, and it's on the iPhone too! :-) 03:44:54 Great! Thank you for the url, and thanks to ITA Software! 03:45:17 matrix2, the current UI, rocks. 03:46:23 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:47:19 p_l|uni: This is super nice. Thanks :) 03:47:55 Now the question is where do we want to go? 03:48:01 lol. I figured people here would have known about it already :D 03:48:10 pjb: hamburg in march? :P 03:48:15 Right! :-) 03:48:17 st paul in june! 03:48:53 schmrkc: oh, something interesting? 03:49:08 p_l|uni: only if you're an rkc cultist :) 03:49:14 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has joined #lisp 03:56:28 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-249-110.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:56:28 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-249-110.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:59:53 -!- sigjuice [~sigjuice@c-24-130-52-60.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:02:37 rkc? 04:03:05 joekarma [~joekarma@S0106001b63ab3433.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:04:16 Russian Kettlebell Challenge? 04:05:03 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has quit [Quit: rich_holygoat] 04:05:12 I'm just guessing. I typed "rkc saint paul june" to Google, and that was what it came up with. 04:05:20 -!- leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:05:48 lol 04:05:56 sounds fun 04:07:25 properly done would probably include lots of drinking :D 04:09:36 -!- kmc [kmc@clozure-5A26C47B.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: kmc] 04:12:57 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-58-28-211.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:21:09 xcthulhu [~jpd@pine.noqsi.com] has joined #lisp 04:23:49 -!- bhyde1 [~Adium@74.61.201.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:28:21 wioux [~pswoo@c-24-130-116-56.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:28:41 -!- SCVirus [~B234651@S0106001345655973.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:31:12 hello 04:31:37 hello wioux 04:32:04 i've got one or two questions about how ,@ works 04:32:25 Go ahead. 04:33:01 the list has to be spliced in at runtime, right? but it's a "reader macro".. 04:33:35 Well, ` is the reader macro that is significant. 04:33:43 I'm losing my mind. Where is the table in the hyperspec that lists which characters are standard macro characters vs reserved for the user? 04:33:45 ,@ just informs ` of what to produce. 04:34:00 -!- mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 04:34:17 wioux: The reader replaces something like `(a b ,@c d) by something like (append '(a b) c '(d)) 04:34:44 gigamonkey: In the `syntax' chapter 04:35:09 giga: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/02_ad.htm 04:35:11 thanks 04:35:20 wioux: No problem. 04:36:08 beach, Zhivago: thanks. I really am losing my mind. I looked at that page but didn't recognize it as what I was looking for. 04:36:12 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-249-110.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 04:36:12 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-249-110.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 04:37:52 ... I wonder if prospective client would consider it creepy that I already know of possible sources of their issues by the time I contact them, despite them mentioning just that they need to optimize their server... :P 04:38:29 p_l|uni: I think they would be impressed, at least if you claim that you know this from experience. 04:39:24 beach: I simply connected the dots regarding possible issues when they mention "web server too slow" and the site doesn't look complex enough to bring it down. Can be fun. 04:41:26 Of course, that's also something that someone sabotaging the server would know ... 04:42:27 Zhivago: heh. In this case no-one needs to sabotage them, they get the v. happy issue of "too many visitors" 04:45:08 -!- upward [~upward@modemcable004.209-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:48:30 SCVirus [~B234651@S0106001345655973.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:50:24 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.33.72] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:51:32 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.33.72] has joined #lisp 04:52:46 tama [~tama@adsl-68-88-67-67.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 04:53:10 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 04:53:30 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 04:56:11 *Fare* commits and pushes a fixed fare-quasiquote 04:56:38 oops, forgot to remove debugging trace... 04:56:45 LaZieR [~Tum@ppp-58-8-217-60.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 04:58:02 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-120-135.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:58:57 -!- wioux [~pswoo@c-24-130-116-56.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 04:59:50 *Fare* pops quasiquote and input-stream-line-column from his backtracking, now back to scribble reader. 05:00:18 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-152-102.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:01:50 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:02:38 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:07:53 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has joined #lisp 05:09:06 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 05:14:24 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 05:16:32 -!- wol [~wol@67.174.222.215] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:27:24 tij [~tim@li101-203.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 05:36:06 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 05:36:38 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-249-110.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:36:42 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-249-110.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:51:52 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:56:17 jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-158.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:10:08 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-158.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:13:26 is there a semi-standard package that defines functions such as ascii-char-p ? 06:15:28 <_3b> if #\a had a char code > 256 would it return true? 06:17:01 assuming ascii or unicode based encoding, (<= (char-code x) 127) 06:17:26 fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-084-056-181-159.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 06:17:26 more "interesting" with a native ebcdic implementation 06:18:17 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 06:18:17 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 06:18:17 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:18:31 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 06:19:29 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-178-61.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 06:19:53 <_3b> looks like swank defines it, that's pretty semi-standard :) 06:20:25 <_3b> cl-unicode has some more general properties, possibly including ASCIIness 06:20:48 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-120-135.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:21:04 hi fare 06:21:09 flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has joined #lisp 06:21:25 i'm trying to start up a worcester meetup 06:21:33 how are you? 06:22:50 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 06:23:55 dto: I'm kind of ok 06:24:01 are you going to ILC 2010? 06:24:16 where is it? 06:24:21 Reno, NV 06:24:26 when? 06:24:36 i won't have any money until November 3 06:25:27 my birthday is the 22 and i am planning a trip to foxwoods for that weekend as well 06:25:32 of october 06:25:36 so , i probably can't do this. 06:25:54 unless i win at poker at foxwoods, go back in time, and pay for the trip. 06:26:47 http://dtogameblog.blogspot.com/2010/10/flow-urban-dance-uprising.html 06:27:07 any interesting speaker for your WLM? 06:27:09 Fare i'm also working on a new HD version of my big lisp game 06:27:15 I don't have anyone programmed for the BLM 06:27:19 maybe myself in november 06:27:27 HD? 06:27:32 Fare: i'd be willing to do something as well. for blm. 06:27:39 oh nice. 06:27:52 you're welcome to speak 06:27:59 my work is much much further along than it was in what, jan 2009? 06:28:01 especially with cool game demos 06:28:08 something like that 06:28:11 Fare: i might even have a dance pad game working :) 06:28:16 watch the video i just pasted :) 06:28:27 this isn't lisp, but I'm working on a lispy game that uses the same game controller 06:28:27 reminds me that I have to rehearse my talk 06:28:43 Fare can we meet beforehand and discuss my presentation and perhaps give a dry run 06:29:17 what are you going to talk about? 06:29:20 -!- LaZieR [~Tum@ppp-58-8-217-60.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:30:43 i'd like to present something less technical and more practical with cool demos 06:31:03 i want the presentation to be about lisp games in general.... what i'm doing, what other people are doing, tools, how emacs relates to it, etc. 06:31:30 dto: that would be great 06:31:31 what i would like to do is bring my big computer. 06:31:33 dto: asdf2 06:31:46 hey cool 06:32:14 what do you think of quicklisp? as i understand it , it's complementary and not a replacement 06:32:33 Fare i might need to borrow my fathers SUV and bring my friend Dana again. 06:32:35 dto: You must be thinking of asdf-install rather than asdf. 06:32:48 because the big computer doesn't fit in my regular car. 06:33:14 if i do all that i'll probably want to present for a whole hour, considering also the hour drive 06:33:18 or 45 06:33:23 -!- hohoho_ [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:33:26 but, i promise i can fill the time 06:33:27 dto: Quicklisp uses ASDF for compiling. 06:33:33 beach: ah ok. 06:33:50 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 06:34:13 doesn't fit the regular car????? How big a computer is it? 06:34:42 dto: if you give your speech first to the WLM, that's even better 06:35:03 so you rehearse it with a live audience before you make a big trip. 06:35:05 Fare: i'll take a picture for you right now. one moment. 06:35:10 :) 06:35:18 hey that's a very good idea. i'm trying to get a room at my alma mater 06:37:34 -!- dys` is now known as dys 06:38:06 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:38:30 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:39:10 aerique [~euqirea@aerique.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 06:40:32 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:42:00 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:42:26 ok fare here comes the picture 06:45:18 if it doesn't have a custom rack, it's not big 06:45:33 http://imagebin.ca/view/XPpHvbq.html 06:45:58 it has a rack. 06:46:06 this is my pc fare 06:46:10 home theater style 06:46:14 (last computer that I worked with that needed a custom rack was p595. it was a beast :D) 06:47:25 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-178-61.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:48:47 eh, it's small 06:48:56 the PC doesn't look dependant on the audio rack 06:49:32 ok, but do you really need it all for a demo? 06:49:35 nice thing 06:50:30 well 06:50:45 no i guess 06:50:53 i could leave out the rack and just not bring that part. 06:51:01 but i wanna bring the speakers :) 06:51:10 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has quit [Quit: rich_holygoat] 06:51:28 and the screen. 06:51:36 the demo room at MIT has its own speaker system, I think 06:51:40 and screen 06:51:42 i want to underscore that i am designing this lisp stuff for a home theater 06:51:43 oh. 06:51:44 vga? 06:51:47 what resolution? 06:51:48 yes 06:51:53 1024x768 I think 06:51:56 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:52:05 dto: If it's MIT, they probablyhave enough gear to make you try to stay 06:52:05 good to know. 06:52:19 ok well i have plenty of cables 06:52:58 i assume then vga and 1/8 inch stereo audio (like an ipod-to-car-stereo cable) are all i need 06:53:19 when do you want me to do this? 06:54:41 good morning 06:54:45 hello mvilleneuve 06:55:12 -!- smanek [~smanek@c-98-206-218-88.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:56:52 LaZieR [~Tum@ppp-58-8-217-60.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 06:57:14 dto: when can you come? 06:57:27 late october, early november, mid november? 06:57:35 is a monday evening possible? 06:57:35 late october. 06:57:38 sure. 06:57:52 actually maybe early nov would be better 06:58:02 yeah, same here 06:58:03 yeah 06:58:07 can you fill the hour? 06:58:09 yes. 06:58:17 ok. 06:58:20 and 06:58:31 the presentation will be less technical. 06:58:43 more immediate, discussing what tools i use, with demonstrations 06:58:44 nov 1st? nov 8? nov 15? 06:58:48 i'd say 8 06:58:53 sounds good. 06:58:57 :) sweet 06:59:04 why are you up so late 06:59:13 procrastination 06:59:15 ah 06:59:19 writing a parser for racket's scribble 06:59:28 i was filming my goofy hip hop video and lost track of time 06:59:54 also re-did fare-quasiquote at long last 07:00:04 what's that do? i've seen it somewhere 07:00:06 debugged SBCL's file-position 07:00:54 fare-quasiquote just reimplements quasiquote, but is portable, and integrates well with fare-matcher and (soon to be) scribble 07:01:27 neat. 07:01:40 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-216-136.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:01:56 often a portable implementation of quasiquote is required to mess with *quasiquote-level* or such, or (in the case of fare-matcher) to ensure you can match on the expansion of quasiquote. 07:01:57 i've made some improvements to CLON and also to my game engine. the latter needs some cleanups before i can declare it 1.0 07:02:09 what's CLON? 07:02:27 my prototype-based object system designed for games. 07:02:36 my engine is written with it, and the games also use it. 07:02:55 oh, yes. 07:02:57 i could touch on that during the presentation 07:03:00 bozhidar [~user@189-10.gp.evo.bg] has joined #lisp 07:03:02 How did it compare to sheeple, already? 07:03:50 if you have a comparative with sheeple, slate, javascript, and/or other popular prototype-based object systems, that'd be great. 07:03:55 i'm not sure. i'm guessing that sheeple is more flexible, being mop based. 07:04:09 (even a short one) 07:04:10 hmm. i hadn't thought of that. 07:04:41 i wouldn't even go so far as to recommend that people use clon (yet) but i will explain what it does for me. 07:04:42 i.e. what are the high-order bits of such comparison, not necessarily details. 07:04:47 right. 07:06:18 i'm thinking about sometime applying for a job at harmonix music systems in cambridge 07:06:22 i wonder if they do anything lispy 07:06:36 brb, making coffee 07:07:53 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-084-056-181-159.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 07:08:21 freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn1-71.vpn.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 07:08:36 ehu [~ehuels@109.32.158.198] has joined #lisp 07:10:57 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:11:48 -!- c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:14:10 -!- drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:14:21 araujo [~araujo@192.100.124.156] has joined #lisp 07:14:21 -!- araujo [~araujo@192.100.124.156] has quit [Changing host] 07:14:21 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 07:17:49 hi fare. 07:20:44 jmbr [~jmbr@96.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 07:22:38 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 07:26:49 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@96.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:29:38 -!- tcleval [~funnyguy@187.114.113.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:35:26 pydroid [~kenny@bb121-7-211-184.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 07:36:23 -!- pydroid [~kenny@bb121-7-211-184.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:38:41 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-39-143.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:39:09 PCMX [~dborba@pool-74-105-202-55.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:39:52 PascalHunger [~user@d60-65-84-128.col.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 07:40:06 -!- PascalHunger [~user@d60-65-84-128.col.wideopenwest.com] has left #lisp 07:40:08 -!- dborba [~dborba@pool-74-105-202-55.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:41:15 -!- PCMX is now known as dborba 07:48:34 -!- xcthulhu [~jpd@pine.noqsi.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:49:41 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7568c5.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:51:29 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 07:57:07 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 07:59:55 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 08:04:09 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.12.216] has joined #lisp 08:08:17 dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 08:08:18 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-100-112.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:09:18 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-216-136.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:14:17 Blkt [~user@93-33-133-105.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:15:14 good morning everyone 08:15:21 hello Blkt 08:15:30 hi there 08:15:31 -!- Kaer [b@c-cfcee253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:15:56 Kaer [b@c-cfcee253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 08:16:04 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-123-246.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:18:48 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-100-112.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:24:28 -!- rat_ [~quassel@c-24-22-21-120.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:24:51 yakov [~yzaytsev@183.49.62.92.nienschanz.ru] has joined #lisp 08:26:00 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-167-223.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:26:24 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 08:27:32 -!- `micro [~micro@www.bway.net] has left #lisp 08:28:22 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn1-71.vpn.helsinki.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:28:58 good mornign 08:30:33 ost````` [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 08:30:33 -!- ost```` [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:31:09 splittist [~John@36.83.63.81.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 08:31:11 morning 08:34:51 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:35:24 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-20-82-64-58-93.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:36:12 -!- xinming_ is now known as xinming 08:47:08 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 08:48:25 -!- ost````` is now known as ost 08:48:36 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-131-22.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:49:50 -!- kmc [kmc@clozure-5A26C47B.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: kmc] 08:50:25 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-22-82-249-114-244.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 08:50:48 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-123-246.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:52:21 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:53:42 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 08:54:48 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-211-60.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:55:18 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-131-22.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:57:37 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 08:58:50 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 09:00:06 freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-113.vpn.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 09:01:42 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu248.queens.ox.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 09:02:06 Sebastian_Sturm [~Adium@wlan0215.rz.uni-leipzig.de] has joined #lisp 09:05:08 wvdschel [~wim@mansamusa.elis.UGent.be] has joined #lisp 09:10:08 -!- aerique [~euqirea@aerique.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 09:12:44 Hello splittist 09:13:05 If anyone has a minute to spare, please comment on section 4.7.1 of http://dept-info.labri.fr/~strandh/sicl.pdf. It is about a page and a half of text. 09:13:14 Hello nikodemus 09:13:24 [reading scrollbacks] 09:14:48 -!- LaZieR [~Tum@ppp-58-8-217-60.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:14:59 you may say that it's about garbage collection 09:15:29 <_3b> do you discuss anywhere which 'problems with objects moving around' you are trying to avoid? 09:15:56 updating references? 09:16:28 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.33.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:17:08 tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:18:09 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.33.72] has joined #lisp 09:18:10 <_3b> is 'tracing' in paragraph 3 = 'marking' in para 4? 09:21:03 beach: in 4.8 section: "of condition" should be "if condition" 09:23:17 beach: and at the very beginning, why do you have #:eq, #:eql and not #'eq, #'eql ? 09:26:44 <_3b> in 4.7.3, at the point where foreigfn code has a reference, isn't it a bit late to promote it to somewhere it won't move? :) (assuming said promotion involves moving it) 09:28:16 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 09:29:08 mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has joined #lisp 09:29:10 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has quit [Changing host] 09:29:10 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 09:29:13 xan_ [~xan@i219-167-40-93.s02.a027.ap.plala.or.jp] has joined #lisp 09:30:19 HET2 [~diman@host81-135-23-161.range81-135.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:30:29 _3b: I don't discuss that anywhere at the moment. But I probably should. 09:30:43 stassats: Sorry, I should have mentioned the topic. 09:31:08 flip215 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has joined #lisp 09:31:38 -!- flip215 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has left #lisp 09:33:08 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-32-127-140.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: night] 09:33:19 -!- cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:33:49 stassats: Fixed the #:function-name problems. 09:33:52 stassats: Thanks! 09:33:54 beach: line 3 - "and only when [not with] inaccurate" 09:34:05 *Xach* wonders what he stumbled into 09:34:56 stassats: Fixed the of/if problem. Thanks! 09:35:14 first para last sentence: "Perhaps we can use"; also, I feel the last word should be "these" rather than "them" ("them" points to closely to the bitmaps rather than the free zones). 09:36:01 third para: I don't think you need to repeat "initially" in the penultimate sentence. The 'tracing'/'marking' thing has been mentioned. 09:36:17 -!- TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@124-171-208-86.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:36:56 splittist: It is meant to refer to the bitmaps. 09:37:05 -!- HET2 [~diman@host81-135-23-161.range81-135.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:37:31 Fourth para (and the next one) - some pseudo-code would make this much clearer to a bear of little brain like myself. The close-paren after integer-length seems to be in the wrong place. 09:37:42 splittist: Fixed "initially". Thanks! 09:37:59 beach: Oh, OK - then I'd swap the last two clauses of that sentence. 09:39:12 5th para/top of page 16: "vector of? by? [rather than with] increasing block size" (unless it's the vector that has different block sizes). 09:39:19 ogamita [~t@60.Red-80-34-44.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:39:38 hlavaty [~user@77-22-104-162-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:39:44 the sentence beginning "the second word is a pointer" is missing an initial capital. 09:39:51 splittist: Swapped clauses. 09:40:33 -!- Sebastian_Sturm [~Adium@wlan0215.rz.uni-leipzig.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:40:35 splittist: "by" it is. 09:40:43 dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:40:47 same para, I think you need a "and" between "round up the size" and "index the vector" (assuming you are happy to use "index" as a verb here). 09:41:13 end of that para: very little compared to what? 09:42:15 last para: ideally, you'd say 'see below'. And perhaps "perserves _the_ allocation order _of_ objects" 09:42:58 splittist: added a comparison with powers of 2 and Fibonacci series. 09:44:05 splittist: Fixed! Thanks! 09:44:26 Pseudo code might happen one day. Or real code for that matter. 09:44:32 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.2.85] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:46:17 New version now available at that URL and in the GIT repo. Thanks everyone! I didn't hear any comments such as "this will never work because...", which I take as a good sign. 09:46:40 -!- ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:46:48 *_3b* isn't coherent enough at the moment for that sort of assessment :) 09:47:00 Xach: I asked people to comment on 4.7.1 of http://dept-info.labri.fr/~strandh/sicl.pdf 09:48:05 _3b: Oh, I should add that objects must be moved *before* foreign reference are created. 09:48:07 trying to build sbcl with clang, didn't got through by just doing CC=clang 09:48:31 LaZieR [~Tum@ppp-58-8-217-60.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 09:48:41 <_3b> beach: could also be interesting to try to enumerate what sorts of interfaces GC might need/want to have with other components 09:50:59 Right. I'll give that some more thought. But I wanted to avoid working too much on this idea if it turned out to be a stupid one. 09:52:03 stassats: how far did it go? 09:52:26 -!- katofiad [~k2t0f12d@121.98.185.20] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:52:27 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-201-241.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:52:36 <_3b> yeah, being able to isolate experimental stuff is the idea (though trying to write APIs with no implementations isn't the best idea either) 09:52:37 Xach: pretty far, it just can't find some symbols in the binary 09:52:52 ILTWIS"J" 09:53:52 drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 09:53:59 stassats: nice. 09:54:13 looks like the problem is with an inline function, perhaps it optimizes it away 09:54:18 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-211-60.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:54:38 -!- LaZieR [~Tum@ppp-58-8-217-60.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:55:48 stassats: I can write a compiler like that! (Sure it doesn't work, but that's because it's TOO EFFICIENT!) (; 09:56:27 H4ns``` [~user@p579F87E6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:56:30 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-208-150.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:58:03 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-201-241.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:58:46 LaZieR [~Tum@ppp-58-8-217-60.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 09:59:01 indeed, inlining is the problem, now to figure out how to preserve inlining without removing left-over functions 10:00:16 -!- H4ns`` [~user@p579F8F65.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:01:33 -!- SCVirus [~B234651@S0106001345655973.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:02:55 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 10:02:55 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@S0106001b63ab3433.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:03:24 katofiad [~k2t0f12d@121.98.185.20] has joined #lisp 10:04:23 beach: are you looking for feedback on that specific algorithm, or on the specific idea? 10:05:10 defining a function as "extern inline" should tell the compiler to inline and emit a copy 10:05:11 -!- katofiad [~k2t0f12d@121.98.185.20] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:06:05 mal__: that's what i'm trying currently 10:08:00 fwiw I don't like the idea of writing the gc in lisp. if there's one place in the system where low level optimizations matter, that's the one, and too many Lisp implementations are going to be too slow at this. the Lisp debugger is also going to be basically useless at debugging gc problems. If you can't feasibly attach a foreign debugger, figuring out what's going wrong is going to be hard. 10:08:04 -!- LaZieR [~Tum@ppp-58-8-217-60.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:08:37 and trying to make that gc portable to multiple implementations seems like asking for even more trouble 10:08:41 yakov_ [~yzaytsev@183.49.62.92.nienschanz.ru] has joined #lisp 10:09:31 jsnell: Both. 10:09:42 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 10:09:58 -!- yakov_ [~yzaytsev@183.49.62.92.nienschanz.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 10:10:12 -!- yakov [~yzaytsev@183.49.62.92.nienschanz.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:10:14 jsnell: It won't be portable. 10:10:24 yakov [~yzaytsev@183.49.62.92.nienschanz.ru] has joined #lisp 10:10:53 oh, sorry. I must have misunderstood what sicl was :-( 10:12:43 LaZieR [~Tum@ppp-58-8-244-174.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 10:13:23 rudi [~rudi@mineralogix.ifi.uio.no] has joined #lisp 10:14:33 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-167-223.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:16:29 <_3b> jsnell: i think most of sicl is intended to be portable CL, but it also has a sample low-level part for the portable stuff to run on (eventually) 10:17:10 _3b: that's the way I read it, too - part 4 relates back to the last para in the abstract. 10:18:06 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:20:23 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-136-243.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 10:20:34 jsnell: what about generating code not dependant on th lisp runtime from lisp? Like the PreScheme 10:21:43 oh, it's already building contribs! 10:21:47 *stassats* is excited 10:22:41 beach: about the portable parts: for implementations that want to use them, how are they indented to be used? copy & paste, or integrating sicl directly into their build process? 10:23:14 ok, i've successfully built sbcl wiht clang 10:23:26 stassats: clang will probably help in maintenance of the C codebase... it has wonderful tracking of what happens where in the code :) 10:23:31 stassats: nice. now load something big with quicklisp! 10:23:40 stassats: submit patches to mainline plz :3 10:23:52 i had to change 3 lines 10:23:55 *_3b* grabs whole files from sicl and modifies them for my build, being able to use them directly would be nicer though 10:24:25 lies! 4 lines actually 10:24:57 _3b: how is your flash compiler, btw? 10:25:21 <_3b> p_l|uni: no changes for a while, been distracted by other things 10:26:37 Sebastian_Sturm [~Adium@wlan0215.rz.uni-leipzig.de] has joined #lisp 10:28:16 nikodemus: I haven't given it much thought. 10:28:27 katofiad [~k2t0f12d@121.98.185.20] has joined #lisp 10:29:45 beach: re. typecase: i think IF + TYPEP and teaching your compiler to reason about IF + TYPEP with a constant second argument is better than a magic TYPECASE 10:30:12 nikodemus: OK, I'll keep that in mind. 10:30:15 ok. that didn't come out the way i wanted, but i hope it is understandable :) 10:30:45 nikodemus: My idea was to generate an indirect jump table for all values of the tag bits. 10:31:03 nikodemus: But perhaps that's not a good idea. 10:31:16 Joreji [~thomas@82-021.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 10:31:48 *_3b* still needs to test out using throw+catch at the VM level for type dispatch one of these days, and see how it compares to doing it by hand in bytecode 10:32:14 Yuuhi [benni@p54839B09.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:32:16 beach: could be -- as long as the compiler can reason about both that and typep :) 10:32:53 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.33.72] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 10:33:12 nikodemus: Sure. 10:33:21 Xach: works fine, including using foreign code 10:33:37 stassats: sweet 10:33:49 though i'm still running tests 10:34:13 jpd [~jpd@pine.noqsi.com] has joined #lisp 10:34:18 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.199.58] has joined #lisp 10:34:19 <_3b> anything performance senstive in the C runtime aside from GC? 10:34:26 oh, just Finished running tests. just two expected failures 10:35:44 well, that was easy 10:36:53 _3b: I am not so sure that it is impossible to get good performance if the GC is written in Lisp, provided that the Lisp compiler is good of course. 10:37:38 <_3b> beach: i meant with respect to compiling sbcl with a different c compiler 10:38:00 now i have to make some benchmarks of GC, but later 10:38:02 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:39:18 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-118-198.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 10:40:27 _3b: Oh, sorry. 10:42:50 -!- Salamander__ is now known as Salamander 10:46:21 jsnell: you can write low level stuff in a subset of CL. The question is to weight the advantages and inconvenient of being independent of a C compiler vs. having to implement code generation for this subset to all the target processors. Of course, if you already have a native compiler with native code generation, the later may not be a big deal. 10:48:54 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 10:51:18 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Client Quit] 10:51:44 jsnell: when working on SBCL's GC, what benchmarks have you used? 10:52:26 lnostdal-android [~androirc@77.19.241.16.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 10:53:05 most of the cl-bench ones should exercise the gc more than anything else (-; 10:53:27 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:54:11 ogamita: sure, but the chances are that C compiler is going to be better at optimizing that low level stuff. and your CL code will look like C. and there is real value in having a separate debugging environment for the low level runtime 10:54:20 antifuchs: heh. (doesn't mean they do it in the right way though) 10:55:13 lichtblau: cl-bench, the gc benchmark from the shootout, compiling sbcl, compiling other large systems 10:55:30 and occasionally doing one-off benchmarks when trying to optimize something like latency rather than throughput 10:56:34 xan__ [~xan@i220-109-191-198.s02.a027.ap.plala.or.jp] has joined #lisp 10:56:39 e.g. luke had the tcpip stack written in Lisp that allocated ridiculous amounts of short-lived buffers for every ip packet and was complaining about how allocating those should be free :-) so I wrote an approximation of that 10:59:08 -!- dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 10:59:23 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 10:59:33 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:59:48 -!- xan_ [~xan@i219-167-40-93.s02.a027.ap.plala.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:00:06 Krystof [~csr21@nat65.mia.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:03:25 -!- lnostdal-android [~androirc@77.19.241.16.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Quit: Bye] 11:04:50 mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:05:32 Jubb [~ghost@129.21.84.130] has joined #lisp 11:06:51 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:09:44 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:13:47 -!- drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:16:11 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:18:44 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 11:20:15 -!- mheld [~mheld@pool-173-76-224-45.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mheld] 11:24:48 drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 11:30:17 ohih0wru [~ohih0wru@80.233.141.30] has joined #lisp 11:31:51 -!- Jubb [~ghost@129.21.84.130] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:31:58 woo, ecl fixed for deflate! 11:37:38 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-118-198.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:38:47 davazp [~user@83.55.183.181] has joined #lisp 11:44:39 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-128-10.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:44:42 Xach: oh, that's fantastic 11:45:58 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-zhwdnvbtegmdtydi] has left #lisp 11:46:34 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 11:46:42 -!- davazp [~user@83.55.183.181] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 11:47:48 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 11:47:54 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:48:09 now to move on to new problems :) 11:49:53 so far quicklisp has prompted patches from ECL, ABCL, SBCL, and CMUCL 11:50:05 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:50:37 stassats: which version of clang are you using? 11:52:59 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:56:17 urandom__ [~user@p548A498A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:58:19 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-119-127.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:58:44 -!- xan__ [~xan@i220-109-191-198.s02.a027.ap.plala.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:00:29 xan_ [~xan@i220-109-191-198.s02.a027.ap.plala.or.jp] has joined #lisp 12:00:36 gadek [~konrad@wifi-wpa.agh.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 12:00:36 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-66-140.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 12:00:50 -!- gadek [~konrad@wifi-wpa.agh.edu.pl] has quit [Client Quit] 12:02:17 jdz: the latest 12:03:28 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:04:28 -!- xan_ [~xan@i220-109-191-198.s02.a027.ap.plala.or.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 12:05:02 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:06:04 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:09:57 jmbr [~jmbr@96.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 12:11:43 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:12:05 portage has 2.8 as latest, also possible to get directly from SVN 12:12:08 i think 12:12:28 yes, 2.8 12:13:49 -!- LaZieR [~Tum@ppp-58-8-244-174.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [] 12:14:21 dlowe [~dlowe@c-76-24-31-68.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:15:05 -!- echo-area [~echo-area@114.251.86.0] has left #lisp 12:17:10 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-128-10.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 12:19:16 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-128-10.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:19:21 Xach: there's only 1 patch I know that you need from ABCL. it's for ASDF with wild-inferiors. 12:19:27 do you expect more patches? 12:19:43 or rather: do you expect any other issues to be resolved too to be able to run quicklisp? 12:19:55 ehu: setf values fix 12:20:13 ah. ok. that's fixed, but only on trunk as of yet. 12:20:26 it wasn't directly from quicklisp, but was discovered as part of messing around for quicklisp purposes 12:20:34 *Xach* is counting it anyway! 12:21:37 np. 12:21:56 you were able to build and assess that there is no longer an issue, afair. 12:22:14 wild-inferiors needs to be fixed too; I hope V-ille gets to that. 12:22:41 yeah, no issue. 12:25:58 dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:26:32 So, in Wild Inferiors (+ metal umlauts), is Xach the Keanu character or the other one? 12:28:16 jiyuu [~jiyuu@unaffiliated/jiyuu] has joined #lisp 12:28:33 Xach: people were talking about quicklisp in a secret channel 12:29:33 Xach: congratulations on a job well done...a fine contribution :) 12:30:40 what is this quicklisp? 12:30:50 minion: quicklisp? 12:30:51 quicklisp: Quicklisp aims to make it easy to get started with a rich set of community-developed Common Lisp libraries. http://www.cliki.net/quicklisp 12:31:06 thanks 12:32:08 gadek [~konrad@wifi-wpa.agh.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 12:32:31 Quadrescence: secret? 12:32:42 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 12:33:17 Xach: yes secret, someone just started talking about it then i joined in and said "i know the creator of quicklisp personally" 12:33:28 then they were like "whoa really" and i said "yeah" 12:34:01 Wow, six degrees, man. 12:34:13 xach is a programming celebrity 12:34:29 I can't wait until the next gigamonkey interviews you for his second book (: 12:34:45 I wonder how much I can charge for autographs at ILC next week. 12:35:02 where is ILC 12:35:05 antifuchs: haha 12:35:27 Reno, NV 12:35:35 dang I should go\ 12:35:36 antifuchs: careful, or you'll have to write the next "dead sexy" blurb 12:37:43 milanj [~milanj_@77-46-169-94.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 12:38:59 -!- Sebastian_Sturm [~Adium@wlan0215.rz.uni-leipzig.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:40:16 -!- dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:40:49 Xach: I think a couple of chips per autograph should work - let lady luck and the conscience of the autographee specify the denomintion... 12:41:57 cmm-: hah 12:43:05 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:43:26 -!- Krystof [~csr21@nat65.mia.three.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:49:56 p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 12:50:48 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279442446.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: hugod] 12:52:52 nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-147-129.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 12:53:24 carlocci [~nes@93.37.221.65] has joined #lisp 12:53:37 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7568c5.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:53:53 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7568c5.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 12:55:40 Krystof [~csr21@nat66.mia.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:57:55 serichsen [~user@f048228189.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:57:58 Hello! 12:59:38 bhyde [~Adium@c-66-30-201-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:01:55 splittist: http://xach.com/img/wild-inferiors.png 13:04:10 hypercube31 [~hypercube@66.90.18.146] has joined #lisp 13:04:43 re paredit: anyone know a shortcut with paredit + slime to reformat a lisp expression to look like it was entered with paredit? I have some old pre-paredit code laying around... 13:05:08 think line after line of closing parentheses...and try not to scream :) 13:05:48 i have no difference between entering code with paredit or without 13:06:32 I'm a Java/C++ programmer by training...so it took me a while to come around to the wisdom of paredit's choice of formatting 13:07:14 it's not specific to paredit, it's an ordinary lisp style 13:07:23 just use a regex replace 13:07:47 lol! well, I wasn't following ordinary lisp style when I wrote this stuff...desperately trying to make it look like C++ I think... 13:08:02 s/\n\s*)/)/ 13:08:31 then i guess stray parenthesis isn't the only problem with that code, so you can just throw it away 13:08:57 sellout: good idea, lemme see what that does 13:09:08 stassats: perhaps :) 13:10:03 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:10:14 hargettp: Could you paste the code? 13:10:26 -!- Krystof [~csr21@nat66.mia.three.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:10:48 -!- serichsen [~user@f048228189.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: train travel] 13:10:52 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #lisp 13:11:44 beach: here's a reasonable sample of the many poor choices I made back then: http://paste.lisp.org/+2H1Q 13:11:50 mega1 [~quassel@pool-03811.externet.hu] has joined #lisp 13:12:11 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:12:14 *styling choices, I should say...not nearly enough time to discuss bad code/design choices ;) 13:12:32 hargettp: oh my, and i'm eating! 13:12:36 lol 13:12:45 hargettp: If you remove any whitespace preceding ) and following (, and then reindent, I think it will be fine. 13:13:13 cool; had forgotten about regexp's, so trying sellout's suggestion right now :) 13:13:24 Buganini [~buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 13:15:04 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-113.vpn.helsinki.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:15:54 -!- gadek [~konrad@wifi-wpa.agh.edu.pl] has quit [Quit: asdfghjkl] 13:16:34 smanek [~smanek@c-98-206-218-88.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:19:24 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:22:35 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279442446.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 13:25:52 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:26:10 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-39-143.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:27:18 i redirect output using >&, but i still get some output from sbcl, where else can it be outputting? 13:27:35 isn't it "&>"? 13:27:40 stassats: use &> 13:27:49 stassats: or >foo 2>&1 13:27:58 well, there is no difference actually 13:28:06 also, sbcl uses console output for terminal-io 13:28:15 freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn1-47.vpn.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 13:28:19 it's mostly immune to standard io redirection 13:29:11 looks like it 13:29:13 xan_ [~xan@i220-109-191-198.s02.a027.ap.plala.or.jp] has joined #lisp 13:32:47 i was just checking test-logs from clang and gcc built sbcl, so it's not a big deal 13:32:49 PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 13:32:58 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:34:04 'setsid sbcl' helps, if you don't mind the side effects 13:34:45 (otherwise, change the stream variables or the FDs of the streams) 13:35:07 kslt1 [~Sierka1@netblock-208-127-156-74.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 13:37:31 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 13:37:52 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 13:40:47 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 13:41:53 -!- Kaer [b@c-cfcee253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:41:57 lichtblau: I'm not understanding cxml sinks. Should I just be able to do e.g. (make-octet-vector-sink) and expect something (good) to happen (i.e. a sink to be created)? 13:43:30 -!- jiyuu [~jiyuu@unaffiliated/jiyuu] has quit [Quit: Read error: 666 (Stupid user)] 13:43:40 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-128-10.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 13:45:15 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:45:59 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 13:46:52 Kaer [b@c-cfcee253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 13:48:33 -!- flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:49:35 -!- prip [~foo@host247-125-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:54:22 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 13:57:28 -!- bhyde [~Adium@c-66-30-201-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 13:57:59 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-135-206-229.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 13:59:41 -!- legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-34-94.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:00:33 splittist: yes, that function returns a brand new CLOS object 14:01:34 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:03:34 aerique [~euqirea@aerique.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 14:03:45 -!- kslt1 [~Sierka1@netblock-208-127-156-74.dslextreme.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:05:11 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-128-10.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:06:20 what is it that you would like to do with a sink? 14:08:24 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 14:09:01 lichtblau: I was going to map-document over something - just playing at the moment. But abcl isn't liking my attempts to instantiate a sink. 14:11:55 defstruct inheritance again? 14:13:30 -!- smanek [~smanek@c-98-206-218-88.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:15:45 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@c-69-181-60-125.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:15:45 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@c-69-181-60-125.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 14:15:45 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has joined #lisp 14:16:22 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-102-225.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 14:17:00 blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 14:17:08 smanek [~smanek@c-98-206-218-88.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:17:36 lichtblau: ah! that makes sense of the error message! 14:17:56 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has quit [Client Quit] 14:18:18 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-208-150.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:18:29 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.50.3] has joined #lisp 14:19:22 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-58-28-211.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:19:53 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-18-48.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 14:22:10 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-102-225.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:22:50 cl-bench doesn't show much of a difference between sbcl-gcc and sbcl-clang 14:23:15 ... were you expecting it to? 14:23:47 The only compute-intensive bit in the runtime is the GC. 14:23:53 nyef: maybe some gc related difference 14:24:15 And that's almost certainly bound by cache effects. 14:24:31 mheld [~mheld@c-75-69-89-109.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:00 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 14:25:04 locci [~nes@93.37.221.65] has joined #lisp 14:25:26 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-216-86.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:25:26 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-216-86.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:25:33 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.221.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:25:33 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:25:47 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 14:27:28 -!- mheld [~mheld@c-75-69-89-109.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 14:27:37 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 14:28:31 stassats: FWIW*, I'm excited by your clang experiment. (* Not very much, admittedly.) 14:29:10 -!- ASau` [~user@77.246.230.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:29:13 splittist: i'm not excited, because it was very easy to get it running 14:30:45 if i was fighting it for a week or two, and then finally got it to work, than i'd feel more of excitement 14:31:30 drdo` [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 14:32:21 jeti [~jeti@p54B46BC2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:33:07 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 14:33:16 -!- drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:33:46 stassats: you are young - as you get older the low-hanging fruit tastes ever sweeter... 14:34:31 Or perhaps the idea that anything works at all comes as a pleasant surprise. 14:35:11 silenius [~silenus@dslb-088-072-012-105.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:35:38 -!- e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:35:56 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-055-138.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:35:58 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:36:03 ASau [~user@77.246.230.186] has joined #lisp 14:36:51 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:38:18 -!- Salamander__ is now known as Salamander 14:39:29 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:40:31 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 14:40:37 pdo [~pdo@217.33.254.141] has joined #lisp 14:40:43 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-58-28-211.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:42:56 -!- mega1 [~quassel@pool-03811.externet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:43:01 mega1 [~quassel@pool-00093.externet.hu] has joined #lisp 14:43:23 and as your teeth get longer, you start feeling positively _cheated_ when anything works 14:44:29 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:44:31 V-ille1 [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 14:45:02 -!- benny [~benny@i577A2383.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:48:02 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:49:38 -!- V-ille1 [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:49:41 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 14:51:47 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.50.3] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:53:17 -!- jeti [~jeti@p54B46BC2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 14:58:12 -!- BrianRice-mb [~briantric@c-98-246-165-205.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: BrianRice-mb] 14:59:17 Xach: let's make an emacs overlay on :wild-inferiors using your png! 14:59:32 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:00:06 kslt1 [~Sierka1@netblock-208-127-156-74.dslextreme.com] has 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quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:28:59 -!- yakov [~yzaytsev@183.49.62.92.nienschanz.ru] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:30:05 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host61-182-dynamic.21-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [] 15:30:27 has there something changed with merge-pathnames in sbcl during the last year or so? 15:30:47 why are you asking? 15:31:03 I'm getting a bunch of merge-pathnames related errors with old versions of lisp libraries 15:31:27 what kind of errors? 15:31:50 mostly wrong type during asdf loads 15:32:21 no, asdf changed 15:32:28 ah 15:32:30 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 15:32:46 -!- tama [~tama@adsl-68-88-67-67.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:33:02 Yeah, looks, to a rough approximation, as if MERGE-PATHNAMES hasn't changed in years. 15:33:06 -!- mulander [mulander@078088239019.lubin.vectranet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:33:08 yeah, i also noticed today that asdf-binary-locations is not compatible with asdf 15:33:11 mulander [mulander@078088239019.lubin.vectranet.pl] has joined #lisp 15:33:31 since asdf now does what asdf-binary-locations used to do, by default 15:33:32 jdz: asdf2 includes asdf-binary-locations nowadays 15:33:38 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:33:48 stassats: yeah, but old systems don't know about it 15:33:57 milanj [~milanj_@109-92-115-187.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 15:34:03 sounds exactly like my problem 15:34:14 gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:20 old systems? why should they know about it at all? 15:34:29 p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 15:34:53 Fortunately, asdf2 is supposed to be mostly-backwards-compatible with asdf 1. 15:34:56 daniel___ [~daniel@p5B32735D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:59 (Ha-ha.) 15:36:28 davazp [~user@83.55.183.181] has joined #lisp 15:36:29 stassats: know about what? 15:36:59 josemanuel [~josemanue@112.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 15:37:05 jdz: i don't know, you said "it" first 15:37:07 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082B81E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:37:57 which libraries are you having trouble with? 15:39:14 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:39:21 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 15:40:20 drdo`` [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 15:42:09 Is it possible to get asdf to run, say, a Fortran or C compiler on a file instead of having CL compile the file? 15:42:16 -!- drdo` [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:42:57 yes 15:43:02 urandom_ [~user@p548A63A4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:43:12 Any hints on how to do that? 15:43:20 -!- Joreji [~thomas@82-021.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:43:44 you define a new class of source files and then define new methods on asdf:perform 15:44:33 Ah, ok. I have the class of source files, but I need the new method on perform. 15:44:36 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-136-243.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:44:37 rtoym: Here's an example in CFFI: http://common-lisp.net/gitweb?p=projects/cffi/cffi.git;a=blob_plain;f=grovel/asdf.lisp;hb=HEAD 15:45:13 Thanks. I finally found that bit in the asdf manual and was just going to find cffi-grovel. 15:45:51 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A498A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:48:23 ASau` [~user@77.246.230.186] has joined #lisp 15:48:44 -!- drdo`` is now known as drdo 15:49:08 Bronsa [~bronsa@host61-182-dynamic.21-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:50:59 -!- ASau [~user@77.246.230.186] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:50:59 Sebastian_Sturm [~Adium@wlan0215.rz.uni-leipzig.de] has joined #lisp 15:51:00 brown [~user@nat/google/x-erwuyzwhknegizty] has joined #lisp 15:51:03 -!- brown is now known as reb 15:51:17 lichtblau, one is cxml, in a pretty old version 15:51:42 stassats: old systems (which use asdf-binary-locations) do not know about asdf2 15:52:02 what do you mean by systems? 15:52:29 like, ASDF systems? 15:52:49 stassats: some people inserted (require 'asdf-binary-locations) into the .asd files 15:53:05 and in the :depends-on list 15:53:09 well, that wasn't a good idea 15:53:12 and in package definition files 15:53:18 -!- aerique [~euqirea@aerique.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:53:53 schaueho: okay. In that case it would help to upgrade cxml (and closure-common, closure-html) to the version from git. 15:54:15 will do, thx 15:58:29 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:59:45 fatblueduck [~chris@rrcs-67-52-188-98.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:01:49 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-135-206-229.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:05:54 ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 16:06:39 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@112.1.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 16:07:57 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-216-86.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:08:01 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-216-86.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:08:46 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 16:08:47 -!- ohih0wru [~ohih0wru@80.233.141.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:09:37 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-107-54.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:09:50 did I say "i guess looking for this will be a good hyperspec exercise" in here within the past 24 hours? 16:09:54 or was that a dream? 16:11:47 so, was it a good exercise? 16:13:09 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 16:13:41 sellout: Thanks for that pointer. I know have my asd system compiling Fortran code. But the output extension is wrong. It should be .o instead of .fasl. Is there a way to specify that with asdf? I could just hack the routine to set the extension correctly. 16:14:24 stassats: I don't remember. I think it was a dream. I just can't remember. I think it had to do with symbol plists or something. 16:15:04 rtoym: I think there is another method you can specialize like output-file-name or something, but I'm not sure. 16:15:27 Ok. That's a starting point. 16:18:01 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:19:36 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:21:17 dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 16:24:16 Quadrescence: You might check the logs to see if there's a record of it. 16:28:06 -!- smanek [~smanek@c-98-206-218-88.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:28:20 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 16:28:47 great, now asdf spits tons of some nonsense after each load 16:29:24 stassats: 2.009 spits T 16:30:07 (asdf:asdf-version) "2.009" 16:32:10 when i use asdf:oos 16:32:21 hmm, ok. maybe it's only asdf:load-system that returns T 16:33:15 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 16:34:13 Another asdf question: After asdf has compiled my Fortran code and (pretended) to load them, can I get asdf to create a library? Or should that be done during the load-op? 16:34:26 *rtoym* is an asdf newbie. 16:39:45 -!- Buganini [~buganini@security-hole.info] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:42:22 Edward__ [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-48-140.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:42:42 -!- mega1_ [~quassel@pool-00e97.externet.hu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:43:46 -!- Sebastian_Sturm [~Adium@wlan0215.rz.uni-leipzig.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:44:08 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@S0106001b63ab3433.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: joekarma] 16:44:27 -!- gadek [~konrad@wifi-wpa.agh.edu.pl] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 16:44:36 Buganini [~buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 16:44:43 LiamH [~nobody@pool-141-156-214-211.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:45:18 joekarma [~joekarma@S0106001b63ab3433.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 16:46:12 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 16:46:16 jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-158.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:46:21 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 16:47:45 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 16:49:06 -!- Buganini [~buganini@security-hole.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:49:19 -!- rudi [~rudi@mineralogix.ifi.uio.no] has quit [Quit: rudi] 16:49:27 Sebastian_Sturm [~Adium@wlan0215.rz.uni-leipzig.de] has joined #lisp 16:50:05 -!- drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:50:58 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 16:57:19 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-32-127-140.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:57:26 rtoym: Exactly what are you doing with ASDF and Fortran? 16:57:48 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.32.158.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:58:54 reb: I'm wondering if I can get matlisp compiled using asdf to compile the fortran files and create the shared library (or static library) that is needed. Maybe I should look at cffi for this. 16:59:08 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-32-127-140.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:59:10 Er cffi-grovel. 16:59:43 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has joined #lisp 17:00:23 you might look at iolib. it builds some stuff outside lisp during bootstrap. 17:00:36 although I think that stuff is C code. 17:01:50 Ok. I'll look there too. I have asdf compiling the Fortran code. Just need it to create the library at the end. 17:02:53 rtoym: Take a look at my slurp project. 17:03:08 the idea that debian #squeeze currently has asdf 2.004 looks like a rather bad one to me 17:03:09 rtoym: Sorry, my protocol buffer project. 17:03:19 http://github.com/brown/protobuf 17:03:28 drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:45 hadronzoo [~user@ppp-70-251-117-136.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:50 The protocol buffer ASDF file uses a C++ executable to translate .proto files into Lisp ... then compiles them. 17:04:40 It's reasonably commented and shows what needs to be done to run exterior binaries that do things during an ASDF build. 17:04:51 ... it also works with ASDF 2.x. 17:05:34 rtoym: I think you need to decide exactly what "compile" and "load" mean for the Fortran code. 17:06:14 reb: I have compile-op working. It runs the fortran compiler. Load-op currently does nothing. 17:06:17 wvdschel [~wim@d51A4AD06.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 17:08:02 ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has joined #lisp 17:08:22 I think ASDF's interior model assumes that individual targets can be compiled and loaded separately. 17:08:44 rtoym: it's on my TODO for cffi. if you can wait a week or so, I can write the code 17:09:00 You want to compile a bunch of individual Fortran files, then create a shared library, then load the shared library. 17:09:35 reb: Yeah, basically. 17:09:48 Maybe the right way is to have both a FORTRAN-SOURCE component type and a FORTRAN-LIBRARY component type. 17:09:56 fe[nl]ix: That would be cool. I'm not in any hurry. 17:10:17 *rtoym* found it much easier to do this with mk:defsys. 17:10:18 The library instance would have to depend on all of the source files. 17:10:45 Krystof [~csr21@nat65.mia.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:11:05 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has quit [Quit: rich_holygoat] 17:11:18 Maybe it would work to make COMPILE-OP on the library component link together the shared library. 17:11:33 ... then LOAD-OP on the library could load the shared lib. 17:16:48 -!- cmeow [cmeow@happy.happy.vhost.shellium.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:17:02 -!- sie is now known as xX_sIe_Xx 17:17:26 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 17:17:53 -!- xX_sIe_Xx is now known as sie 17:20:03 jollygood [~jollygood@cpe-098-024-016-207.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:21:57 prip [~foo@host247-125-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:22:26 -!- Krystof [~csr21@nat65.mia.three.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:23:00 cmeow [cmeow@happy.happy.vhost.shellium.org] has joined #lisp 17:23:13 Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:25:07 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@nat/mozilla/x-nyehavczoeqnsgns] has joined #lisp 17:25:07 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@nat/mozilla/x-nyehavczoeqnsgns] has quit [Changing host] 17:25:07 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has joined #lisp 17:25:33 -!- hlavaty [~user@77-22-104-162-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:25:44 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 17:26:33 -!- jollygood [~jollygood@cpe-098-024-016-207.carolina.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 17:27:48 abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:45 drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 17:35:34 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:35:44 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-245-192.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:35:51 Unhammer [~user@c2D3976D9.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #lisp 17:37:08 is there a loop construct to say (loop for x in foo finally return x minimising (gethash x tab)) ? 17:37:31 Harag [~Harag@41.56.32.110] has joined #lisp 17:37:37 what should it return? 17:37:49 the x that had the least (gethash x tab) 17:38:12 no, there is no such construct 17:38:16 ok 17:38:19 well, easy to do without 17:38:34 (it just seems loop has special constructs for almost any situation =P) 17:38:39 return the smallest element in a list? 17:39:09 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 17:39:16 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 17:39:32 well, smallest as counted by some other function 17:40:50 a little off the cuff but would (loop for x in foo minimize (gethash x tab) into y finally return y) not work? 17:40:59 a nice mapcar with closure would work I think 17:41:07 tsuru: no 17:41:09 Hraban, yeah 17:41:55 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:42:06 Hraban: LOOP would work 17:42:08 tsuru, that would return the least (gethash x tab), not the x which gave the least 17:42:17 pfft, use recursion ;> 17:42:28 pfft, don't listen to Hraban 17:42:39 pfft loop recursion whatever 17:44:18 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:46:51 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:47:00 (iter:finding x minimizing (gethash x tab)) 17:47:21 heh... not what was wanted apparently 17:47:35 Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050064112.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:48:02 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 17:49:56 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host61-182-dynamic.21-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:50:20 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 17:52:23 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 17:58:53 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 17:59:26 -!- ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:59:26 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 18:00:39 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@pD9E27412.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:02:53 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 18:03:10 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 18:05:57 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl15-226-229.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 18:06:42 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 18:08:40 fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-084-056-181-159.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:28 pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-242.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:14:28 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:14:30 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ohgbwnnswfwrdors] has left #lisp 18:16:17 -!- urandom_ [~user@p548A63A4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:18:52 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 18:20:51 -!- Sebastian_Sturm [~Adium@wlan0215.rz.uni-leipzig.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:24:36 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-216-86.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:24:43 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 18:24:44 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-216-86.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:24:51 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:25:15 Krystof [~csr21@nat76.mia.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:31:02 Bronsa [~bronsa@host61-182-dynamic.21-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:31:30 -!- davazp [~user@83.55.183.181] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:31:52 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 18:36:43 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 18:38:18 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:39:44 hmm 18:39:56 today I learned &key must come after &optional 18:40:39 Hraban: you can put it everywhere, but it'll always be parsed in that order. 18:41:32 DEFUN: Lambda list marker &OPTIONAL not allowed here. 18:41:42 \(o_O)/ 18:43:23 true, the grammar actually specifies the order. 18:43:36 clhs 3.4.1 18:43:36 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_da.htm 18:46:46 mcarter_ [~mcarter@217.155.40.178] has joined #lisp 18:50:42 -!- wvdschel [~wim@d51A4AD06.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:51:12 *Fare* finds a bug in CCL, upgrades, and the bug goes away. Yay! 18:52:24 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:53:33 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.219] has joined #lisp 18:53:57 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:56:49 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:58:02 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-232-52-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:08:49 -!- drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:09:58 lispm [~joswig@g224046224.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:10:33 is 'beach' still in Vietnam? 19:11:16 lispm: I was under the impression that he was not yet in Vietnam 19:12:09 -!- splittist [~John@36.83.63.81.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: but impressions can be wrong...] 19:13:33 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:14:08 -!- dcrawford [~dcrawford@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:15:06 *Fare* pushes a new scribble, updates the exscribe build. 19:16:48 kclifton [~kclifton@s198-166-45-245.ab.hsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 19:20:02 -!- Fare [~Fare@64.119.159.126] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:21:26 -!- Krystof [~csr21@nat76.mia.three.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:21:56 -!- cmeow [cmeow@happy.happy.vhost.shellium.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:25:52 p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:27:10 aerique [~euqirea@aerique.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 19:27:24 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-107-54.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:27:37 eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has joined #lisp 19:38:13 astalla [~astalla@dynamic-adsl-94-36-36-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 19:40:31 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 19:40:45 Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has joined #lisp 19:42:53 if he was in Vietnam, wouldn't he be using the Vietnamese word for 'beach'? :P 19:43:07 bleach? 19:43:33 thank you, thank you, i'm here all week. try the shrimp, tip the waitress. 19:44:10 aidalgol [~user@132.181.15.216] has joined #lisp 19:44:22 the German word is 'Strand' 19:45:07 -!- eugu [~Miranda@213.141.157.147] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:45:18 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:46:17 Guthur [~Guthur@cpc1-belf4-0-0-cust889.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 19:53:04 Hmm. slime repl doesn't like it if you change the readtable to give #\; a different meaning. 19:53:56 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:54:23 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 19:58:26 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:00:28 drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 20:00:39 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-17-192.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 20:02:37 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.42] has joined #lisp 20:03:28 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:03:31 HET3 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:07:55 qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has joined #lisp 20:09:23 hun [~hun@95-89-69-55-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 20:10:10 heh 20:10:38 If I have a C function foo(int* n), who do I call that from Lisp using cffi? I want to do (foo 42). 20:11:38 42 (usually) doesn't make a lot of sense as a pointer 20:11:43 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host61-182-dynamic.21-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:12:29 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:13:37 francogrex [~user@109.130.107.122] has joined #lisp 20:15:29 c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:17:13 -!- drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:17:52 timack [~tim@hlfx55-2a-215.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 20:20:34 Krystof [~csr21@nat65.mia.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:22:54 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:25:01 mhd [~mhd@c-76-118-198-68.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:27:26 is there a function to get the absolute value of a number 20:27:32 ie. remove the sign 20:27:49 -!- mhd [mhd@clozure-D1451B0E.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 20:27:51 -!- mhd [~mhd@c-76-118-198-68.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:27:52 clhs abs 20:27:52 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_abs.htm 20:27:55 abs? 20:27:56 doh 20:28:03 who would've thought! 20:28:04 cheers stassats 20:28:10 mhd [~mhd@c-76-118-198-68.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:11 i actually looked for that 20:28:14 I must be blind 20:28:35 yep I am, there it is 20:28:41 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@pD9E27412.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:28:43 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 20:29:04 -!- aidalgol [~user@132.181.15.216] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:29:06 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-128-10.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 20:29:08 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-055-138.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:29:14 anyone remember the lisp media player someone wrote? written by a member of this chan and cli based 20:29:17 tama [~tama@pool-71-164-234-131.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:29:27 i thought i had it installed ... odd 20:29:38 shuffletron? 20:29:43 thats it! 20:29:45 thx 20:29:56 Modius [~Modius@cpe-24-28-30-165.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:30:00 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@pD9E27412.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:30:18 urandom_ [~user@p548A45E8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:30:28 -!- Krystof [~csr21@nat65.mia.three.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:30:40 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@pD9E27412.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:31:04 -!- z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:31:18 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:31:42 Abezethibou [~user@217.131.69.34] has joined #lisp 20:33:25 hun: I want to call it from lisp and pass a pointer to 42 to that function. What's the magic cffi incantation for that? 20:33:34 aidalgol [~user@132.181.15.216] has joined #lisp 20:34:51 I realize this may sound like an emacs question but it's more one of workflow - when starting a clean environment and want to load a few files from disjoint areas in a directory structure, how do you reopen them? Keep a list of "open" commands to open buffers in your config and load that? Or is there some cool tool people tend to use? 20:35:18 bookmarks 20:35:44 are useful 20:35:58 although since slime added the open system command, I don't use them much anymore. 20:36:46 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.107.122] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:37:19 -!- silenius [~silenus@dslb-088-072-012-105.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:38:41 Bucciarati [~buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has joined #lisp 20:39:21 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:39:22 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-39-143.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:40:21 rtoym: (defcfun "foo" :void (:pointer)) 20:40:30 gonzojive [~red@171.66.88.154] has joined #lisp 20:40:58 hun: I know how to define it. I want to call it. 20:40:59 then something with with-foreign-pointer 20:41:03 -!- gonzojive [~red@171.66.88.154] has quit [Client Quit] 20:42:25 like (with-foreign-pointer (foo 4) (foo)) 20:42:28 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:42:32 change the first foo to bar 20:43:01 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:43:09 and add bar at the end. shouldn't do this stuff while drinking :) 20:43:26 Heh. Thanks. I'll try that out. 20:43:40 rdd` [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:43:42 mads- [~mads@pdpc/supporter/active/mads-] has joined #lisp 20:45:14 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 20:45:46 -!- kclifton [~kclifton@s198-166-45-245.ab.hsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: kclifton] 20:46:15 macro section on practical common lisp is not enough for me , i need a small tutorial. 20:46:37 just read it twice 20:46:44 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:47:00 On Lisp has something to say about macros. 20:47:01 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:48:22 -!- Abezethibou [~user@217.131.69.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:48:29 on lisp as a PDF: http://www.paulgraham.com/onlisptext.html 20:50:13 It doesn't fit the criteria of 'small tutorial,' though. 20:50:39 it's a relatively small book, though 20:50:58 jeti [~jeti@p54B46BC2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:08 *austinh* made the mistake of printing out the pdf (not a small printout) 20:51:21 -!- hypercube31 [~hypercube@66.90.18.146] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:51:41 Krystof [~csr21@84.93.173.92] has joined #lisp 20:52:40 seangrove [~user@c-71-198-44-87.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:52:58 Sebastian_Sturm [~Adium@178-25-73-142-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 20:53:00 Is there a version of the cl hyperspec that does not look as antiquated as the one published by lispworks? Or is it possible to somehow get the source the hyperspec was built with if it wasn't written by hand 20:53:14 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:54:30 -!- Sebastian_Sturm [~Adium@178-25-73-142-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Client Quit] 20:55:04 which one do you use? The one on the LispWorks site? 20:55:11 yeah 20:55:39 I've been fiddling with the css and the images today on a long train ride without internet :) 20:56:04 Franz has its own web version of the ANSI CL standard on their website 20:56:05 But I guess I can't just publish it. I might publish diffs though 20:56:22 lispm: didn't know that 20:56:36 i thought it was meant to be read 20:57:05 and not to ponder on how beautiful it is 20:57:30 or how ugly it is? =P 20:57:52 -!- aerique [~euqirea@aerique.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 20:57:55 presentation is part of the content 20:57:59 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:58:03 if your CSS looks better, then send it to the LispWorks guys - maybe they can improve it then 20:58:35 one day browsers will have built-in TeX 20:58:35 stassats: I hate the look of the hyperspec, it's really not nice to read 20:58:36 *Hraban* dreams 20:58:53 =D 20:58:54 sepi: what do you 'hate' about it? 20:59:14 Hraban: iTex ;) 20:59:27 if only i had so much time to bother about such problems... 20:59:43 lispm: those "icons" and the missing structure in the reference part 20:59:51 iText? :P 21:00:09 Hraban: http://river-valley.tv/tug-2010/an-earthshaking-announcement 21:00:35 ahh, I forgot about that 21:00:53 i don't think the browser i'm reading clhs in does support CSS 21:01:26 stassats: at least you have time to spend on #lisp ;) 21:01:55 i do, but that's a different kind of time 21:02:08 -!- Harag [~Harag@41.56.32.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:02:16 so you just have different priorites 21:02:40 phrixos [~user@gnu/webmaster/phrixos] has joined #lisp 21:03:02 stassats: as I actually like to do webdesign it's a pleasure for me to work on the hyperspec design 21:03:05 evening 21:03:29 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:04:22 sepi: i don't, my brain just have limited capacity to work at full power, and #lisp doesn't require such power 21:04:41 stassats: the same applies to webdesign 21:05:21 i'm spread way too thin in other areas, i'd like to delegate my job to someone else someday and just sit down and create with lisp 21:05:26 "one day" 21:05:30 heavy on the quotes 21:05:51 -!- HET3 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:06:11 holycow: and you'll be bored pretty soon 21:06:39 heh 21:07:14 now to merge lisp and TeX and literate programming together in an divine fusion of perfection! 21:08:00 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:08:27 So I'm trying to run namestring on a pathname describing a hidden directory (i.e., one starting with a dot) and when I do so I get and error: too many dots in the name 21:08:48 i'm not sure why namestring would have to care 21:09:17 (this is sbcl on debian) 21:10:17 Hraban: i've wanted to make up my own version of tex language in a yaml style and base the rendering via something like vecto or the like 21:10:19 :) 21:10:38 wot's vecto? 21:10:49 phrixos: what exactly are you doing? 21:10:55 vector library (sorta) for common lisp 21:10:56 ahh, i see 21:11:08 minion: vecto? 21:11:09 vecto: Vecto is a graphics library that uses cl-vectors and ZPNG to draw vector graphics to PNG files. http://www.cliki.net/vecto 21:11:17 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-084-056-181-159.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 21:11:47 My project has a 'repo' directory (it's designed along the lines of git), which in this case is /home/clarkema/git/galosh/.galosh 21:11:48 -!- mcarter_ [~mcarter@217.155.40.178] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:12:17 I'm using make-pathname to make a path to a file in that directory: 21:12:41 (make-pathname :directory *galosh-dir* :name "log.db") 21:13:03 and what is *galosh-dir*? 21:13:09 then I want to display that final pathname to the user in a readble way, so I was calling namestring on the output of make-pathname 21:13:23 it's a special var containing the /home/clarkema... string above 21:13:51 -!- Unhammer [~user@c2D3976D9.dhcp.bluecom.no] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:14:16 do you think it's a "valid pathname directory"? 21:14:19 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-66-140.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:14:40 hmm 21:14:42 it needs a /? 21:14:49 let me check that 21:15:02 clhs make-pathname 21:15:03 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_mk_pn.htm 21:15:49 i mean, if i display the # you either need to do (make-pathname :directory '(:absolute "foo" "bar") :name "log" :type "db") 21:16:48 or (merge-pathnames "log.db" "/foo/bar") 21:17:00 rather (merge-pathnames "log.db" "/foo/bar/") 21:17:04 -!- lispm [~joswig@g224046224.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:17:45 hmm 21:17:45 upward [~upward@modemcable004.209-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 21:18:04 but the spec says that a string counts as a valid pathname directory 21:18:21 or is that only the case for a simple string naming one level of directory, with no slashes? 21:18:32 and it also say what it would be equivalent to 21:18:34 -!- rdd` is now known as rdd 21:19:01 ah 21:21:11 basically, if you want your program to run on VMS or RSX-11, use (make-pathname :directory '(:absolute "foo" "bar") :name "log" :type "db") otherwise you should be fine with (merge-pathnames "log.db" #p"/foo/bar/") 21:22:40 right so 21:22:50 -!- Blkt [~user@93-33-133-105.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Error: do not makunbound t please!] 21:22:54 the directory name is actually coming in from a wrapper via the envrionment 21:23:05 so it appears that I need a slash on the end of that, and then merge-pathnames, and it works 21:23:11 I am enlightened, thanks :) 21:23:16 but pathnames are crazy and bite whenever you give 'em any slack 21:25:12 yeah 21:25:19 you can understand why, but it does complicate matters 21:26:22 stassats: is shuffletron yours? 21:26:35 holycow: now, it's hefner's 21:26:42 danke 21:26:49 s/now/no/ 21:26:49 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 21:28:37 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:28:54 -!- pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-242.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo_] 21:30:07 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.12.216] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:31:28 -!- bozhidar [~user@189-10.gp.evo.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:32:00 gonzojive [~red@171.66.85.133] has joined #lisp 21:33:11 -!- qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has left #lisp 21:35:32 -!- upward [~upward@modemcable004.209-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:37:32 sepi: I'm with you. I just spent 10 minutes changing the clhs.css file and it's much more pleasing to the eye, especially changing the font and putting the code examples in the same monospace font as my editor. 21:38:19 austinh: \o/ 21:38:22 i view clhs in my editor 21:38:26 sepi: Unfortunately, there's not enough metadata in there to style headings. 21:38:30 stassats: I do both. 21:39:59 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-136-243.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 21:43:51 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@189.66.251.198] has joined #lisp 21:44:49 is there a standard function to list the contents of a package? 21:45:30 no 21:45:41 Hraban: do-external-symbols? 21:45:47 there is a function to iterate over the symbols in a package 21:45:51 sepi: it's a macro 21:46:02 oh yeah, a macro 21:46:03 stassats: yeah, I was waiting for the correction :) 21:46:11 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 21:46:25 actually, there is a trick: (apropos-list "" 'cl) 21:46:29 (do-symbols (iterator package) body) 21:46:37 but otherwise: (loop for symbol being the symbol in 'cl collect symbol) 21:46:39 that works, stassats :D 21:47:00 (loop is a macro too) 21:47:11 my god... it's full of symbols o_o; 21:47:24 -!- gonzojive [~red@171.66.85.133] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 21:47:26 You might find DO-EXTERNAL-SYMBOLS to be more to your taste if you're hitting the CL package. 21:47:31 stassats: is there a reason why there is not just a function that returns those symbols? 21:47:43 sepi: there should be? 21:48:19 (There won't be a difference on SBCL, as it is careful to avoid having internal symbols in the COMMON-LISP package, but some other implementations may not be so careful.) 21:48:22 what if you're trapped in a room with only a lisp terminal and no external documentation options! 21:48:26 -!- hadronzoo [~user@ppp-70-251-117-136.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:48:37 stassats: It's what I was expecting when I was looking to find what symbols are exported by a package, but I don't know a lot on cl yet... 21:52:04 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:58:56 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:59:00 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 21:59:10 -!- astalla [~astalla@dynamic-adsl-94-36-36-225.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 22:01:16 -!- kmc [kmc@clozure-5A26C47B.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: kmc] 22:03:32 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:03:41 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-135-203-148.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 22:03:44 -!- hun [~hun@95-89-69-55-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:04:48 sebyte [~sebyte@213.229.73.82] has joined #lisp 22:06:05 -!- sebyte [~sebyte@213.229.73.82] has quit [Client Quit] 22:06:48 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu248.queens.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:07:05 -!- 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[~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:08:55 -!- aidalgol [~user@132.181.15.216] has quit [Quit: Moving...] 23:11:23 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84.93.173.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:11:55 sepi: I use my interactive LSPACK function. 23:12:27 http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/com/informatimago/common-lisp/interactive.lisp 23:14:35 http://paste.lisp.org/display/115424 23:17:12 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.68] has joined #lisp 23:19:31 Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has joined #lisp 23:24:51 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:25:04 -!- locci [~nes@93.37.221.65] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 23:29:27 TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-76-175-244-227.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:34:01 cmeow [cmeow@happy.happy.vhost.shellium.org] has joined #lisp 23:34:51 -!- davazp [~user@83.55.183.181] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:36:29 Kortatu [~kvirc@83.39.75.28] has 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