00:00:02 Joreji [~thomas@82-006.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 00:01:04 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-24-147-116-20.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:02:27 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-24-147-116-20.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:09 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@187.87.224.70] has left #lisp 00:03:57 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-24-147-116-20.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:04:22 yates: did you take the new version in the anotation #1? 00:05:03 ragnul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 00:06:03 yates: try http://paste.lisp.org/display/115372#3 00:06:31 i thought i did - let me try again 00:06:38 -!- Riastradh [debian-tor@fsf/member/riastradh] has left #lisp 00:06:59 yates: in some implementations, any symbol denotes a (potential) type, so they're all in the graph, between NIL and T... 00:07:40 clisp and ecl are well behaved. 00:07:47 i can't get the .ps picture to work at all 00:07:57 i'm using sbcl under slime 00:08:09 It will give a picture too big. 00:08:15 hang on - wrong version 00:08:31 You should remove the types that have only T as super type and NIL as subtype. 00:08:57 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-24-147-116-20.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:10:36 still getting "File '/tmp/cl-types.ps' does not exist" in a small dialog from GSview 00:10:54 The third version doesn't use this file anymore. 00:11:01 Have you installed graphviz? 00:11:12 Otherwise you don't have the tools to generate the .ps file. 00:11:28 chekcing... 00:12:09 no 00:12:27 installing now.. 00:13:16 re-running now 00:14:42 dot is sucking a lot of cpu... 00:15:53 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-24-147-116-20.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:16:26 ok that's it 00:20:29 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-24-147-116-20.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:22:23 -!- md1 [~user@chello089173014058.chello.sk] has left #lisp 00:23:50 but it's just showing part of the graph - most of it is cut off 00:24:00 what is the second test, "#+test"? 00:24:48 and what's the purpose of that "#|"/"|#"-delimited text at the bottom? 00:24:49 Read it! 00:24:57 #| is a comment |# 00:25:32 is it sorta meta-code of the function? 00:26:04 -!- Joreji [~thomas@82-006.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:26:30 i just ran "(cl-type-graph)" in slime - was that the wrong way to run this? 00:26:31 Since :test is not (normally) in the *feature* list, #+test won't be executed. It's kind of commented out code. 00:26:45 It was the right way to do it. 00:29:03 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-24-147-116-20.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:31:12 ok i messed up... 00:31:37 http://paste.lisp.org/display/115372#4 will work better in sbcl and clozure. 00:31:38 (surprise, eh?) 00:32:30 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:33:14 what is asdf? 00:33:22 a package, right? 00:33:31 Yes. 00:33:47 what functionality does it provide? system run utilities? 00:33:48 In recent sbcl, you can (require :asdf) to get access to it. 00:34:00 It is Another System Definition Facility. 00:34:05 minion: tell us about asdf 00:34:06 us: have a look at asdf: ASDF (Another System Definition Facility) is an extensible build facility for Common Lisp software. http://www.cliki.net/asdf 00:35:05 is a fasl a compiled lisp file? 00:35:35 Yes. 00:35:39 Fast Loadable file. 00:35:55 Somewhat equivalent to .o 00:37:13 -!- kmc [kmc@clozure-5A26C47B.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: kmc] 00:38:22 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 00:42:03 pjb: thanks very much for your time and help. i'm getting tired and have another task i need to work on - i'll take this up tomorrow or later in the week. 00:42:12 nite 00:42:13 -!- yates [~yates@nc-76-3-105-199.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.1] 00:44:06 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.199.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:46:17 xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@116.227.199.58] has joined #lisp 00:47:22 smanek [~smanek@c-98-206-218-88.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:47:29 tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 00:49:48 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 00:53:04 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:53:29 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 00:54:55 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:55:14 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-24-59-205-231.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:55:43 fisxoj [~fisxoj@149.43.216.49] has joined #lisp 01:01:50 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.199.58] has joined #lisp 01:02:36 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483C9FE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:05:35 -!- xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@116.227.199.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:05:39 jso [~user@ip68-111-169-131.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:06:43 xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@58.41.6.117] has joined #lisp 01:07:50 cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 01:08:26 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.199.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:09:19 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 01:09:23 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:11:56 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:15:47 drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:15:50 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:21:21 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.199.58] has joined #lisp 01:21:54 scottj [~scott@206.212.250.58] has joined #lisp 01:22:41 -!- Kaes [b@c-cfcee253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:24:02 -!- xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@58.41.6.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:24:05 Kaer [b@c-cfcee253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 01:24:09 -!- Edward_ [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-52-39.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 01:25:47 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@149.43.216.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:26:10 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 01:33:13 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:33:18 -!- logia_th [~nmo@83.35.117.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:34:26 new-lisper [~new-lispe@c95334ae.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 01:36:58 -!- phrixos [~clarkema@gnu/webmaster/phrixos] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:41:03 kclifton [~kclifton@S010600123ff34d7d.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:45:34 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:46:31 Joreji [~thomas@82-006.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 01:49:46 -!- new-lisper [~new-lispe@c95334ae.virtua.com.br] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:52:13 -!- serichsen [~user@f048195087.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:52:48 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 01:54:13 phrixos [~clarkema@bs0176.nerc-bas.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 01:56:20 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-61-165.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 01:56:49 -!- legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-75-183.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:57:40 minion: memo for yates: have a look at http://www.informatimago.com/articles/cl-types/ where I publish the graphs for four implementations. 01:57:41 Remembered. I'll tell yates when he/she/it next speaks. 01:59:50 anybody here know anything about Martin-Löf type theory? 02:01:50 psilord [~psilord@adsl-71-150-251-181.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:01:51 -!- psilord [~psilord@adsl-71-150-251-181.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 02:03:11 -!- phrixos [~clarkema@bs0176.nerc-bas.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:04:46 logia_th [~nmo@83.35.117.177] has joined #lisp 02:08:42 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.102.101.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:11:01 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 02:13:53 -!- pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:15:04 billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 02:15:16 -!- ogamita [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:18:03 -!- Soulman [~knute@159.80-202-237.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 02:19:45 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 02:20:14 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:22:08 pjb http://www.informatimago.com/articles/cl-types/ is very cool 02:23:12 I'm a fan of concentrate=true; node [shape=plaintext]; in my dot files 02:23:32 pjb: thanks for publishing those, I also wanted to have a look 02:25:31 fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.102.101.115] has joined #lisp 02:26:58 /me wonders about .... "BIT" -> "T"; "BIT" -> "FIXNUM"; "BIT" -> "NUMBER"; 02:27:16 -!- Joreji [~thomas@82-006.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:27:36 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:32:40 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-147-129.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 02:46:04 ost``` [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 02:46:04 -!- ost`` [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:46:13 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@221.220.250.91] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:50:18 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:52:03 xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-131-252.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:53:24 dys` [~andreas@krlh-5f72c75b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 02:53:32 -!- dys [~andreas@krlh-5f72ceaa.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:54:02 -!- dys` is now known as dys 03:00:04 -!- kclifton [~kclifton@S010600123ff34d7d.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: kclifton] 03:00:16 -!- e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:03:39 hadronzoo [~user@ppp-70-251-117-136.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:03:44 psilord [~psilord@adsl-71-150-251-181.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:05:55 leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has joined #lisp 03:06:20 -!- incandenza [~djm@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:08:20 mjonsson_ [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:08:40 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 03:09:19 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:09:19 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 03:09:19 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 03:11:40 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 03:15:28 wuj [~wuj@pool-74-108-204-117.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:18:48 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:20:07 -!- kwmiebach1 [~ad@xdsl-87-79-53-82.netcologne.de] has left #lisp 03:22:01 incandenza [~djm@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:24:20 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:24:59 -!- jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit [Quit: good night folks] 03:26:45 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:27:51 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 03:28:03 -!- ignotus [~ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 03:33:34 gz_ [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 03:34:12 -!- gz` [gz@clozure-93943513.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout] 03:34:43 -!- gz` [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:36:18 -!- gz_ is now known as gz 03:36:52 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:37:06 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-58-28-211.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:37:37 -!- wuj [~wuj@pool-74-108-204-117.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:40:51 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-24-147-116-20.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:43:26 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-70-67.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 03:43:48 If you want to bind n variables and the n-1 binding depends on a previous one, would you ever use nested LETs or would you always use LET*? Does it depend on n? 03:43:50 -!- humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:44:14 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-62-144.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:44:40 I'm not asking as if there's a right or wrong answer, just what people's preference is. 03:44:53 <_3b> might use nested LET if generated by a macro (or otherwise) but not by hand 03:46:11 I'm assuming that there's little to be gained in the way of performance by nested lets, but sometimes I feel like it organizes my code better; I don't have to scan through a big LET* to find which is depending on which. 03:47:00 It might give some meaning to each group, too. I wasn't sure what other people do. 03:47:34 <_3b> well, if nested LET is more clear, go with that... can't think of any situations where i would think i it is, but that doesn't mean there are none :) 03:48:41 <_3b> alternately, maybe you should be nesting something that adds more abstraction than just LET 03:49:55 -!- psilord [~psilord@adsl-71-150-251-181.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 03:50:05 I think I need to read more code. 03:50:27 Too many nested lets gets indented too far, too. 03:50:58 humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:51:36 I seem to remember someone wiser than me saying something about having too much nesting in one function. 03:51:39 Hmmm. BUTLAST should return a secondary value, the tail of the list. 03:52:51 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 03:54:33 I have similar issues with nesting expressions within expressions, and bindings in LOOP, but I'm sure the answer is usually to do whatever is clearest. 03:55:24 Whatever the answer is, it's surely not doing whatever is the least clear. :-) 03:55:50 sabalaba [~sabalaba@119.57.31.105] has joined #lisp 03:56:02 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-24-147-116-20.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:56:41 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@119.57.31.105] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:59:10 -!- kmc [kmc@clozure-5A26C47B.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: kmc] 04:03:22 Kenjin_ [~josesanto@bl15-226-229.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 04:06:00 Good morning everyone! 04:06:13 morning, beach 04:06:18 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-74-71.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:09:44 Morning, beach. 04:10:43 quotemstr [~quotemstr@c-67-183-23-114.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:10:59 Ah, it feels good to hack on my Lisp interpreter again. 04:25:35 Is there a way to un-SHADOW a symbol in a package? I can get a list of shadowed symbols in the slime inspector, but there doesn't seem to be any available commands. 04:27:56 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:29:24 -!- smanek [~smanek@c-98-206-218-88.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:29:47 andrew007 [~andrew_zu@219.136.142.71] has joined #lisp 04:30:24 smanek [~smanek@c-98-206-218-88.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:33:24 I interned it and then uninterned it and that removed it from the list of shadowed symbols. 04:34:46 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:40:08 -!- xristos [~x@c-174-61-40-23.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:44:08 austinh: and that worked out well? 04:44:27 schmrkc: Beyond my wildest fantasies. 04:44:35 well there you go tehn. 04:45:10 Possibly you could manipulate the package object. 04:45:22 -!- kmc [kmc@clozure-5A26C47B.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: kmc] 04:46:12 austinh: atleast in SBCL there is a %SHADOWING-SYMBOLS slot in the package object. 04:49:14 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has joined #lisp 04:55:01 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has joined #lisp 04:55:33 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:57:06 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:58:27 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:58:59 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 05:01:55 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:03:29 When the standard shows a class-precedence list for some system class, is an implementation allowed to have other items on that list or does it have to conform exactly to that list, and what is the section of the CLHS that says so? 05:04:32 antivigilante [~antivigil@174-26-89-10.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:05:33 evening 05:05:33 slyrus_, memo from froydnj: I don't think it's overly hard, just fiddly hooking up to the event loop across implementations 05:05:41 hello slyrus_ 05:05:54 hey beach 05:07:13 -!- antivigilante [~antivigil@174-26-89-10.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:09:08 <_3b> beach: 4.2.2 and the end of 4.3.7 might apply 05:09:51 *beach* reading now... 05:10:22 antivigilante [~antivigil@174-26-89-10.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:12:04 _3b: Thanks! 4.2.2 seems to authorize an implementation to add other types. 05:13:08 <_3b> i read 4.2.2 as only allowing adding standard-object or structure-object at the top (below t) 05:13:28 <_3b> the other stuff there just talks about types 05:13:47 <_3b> 4.3.7 i think allows adding other stuff though 05:14:14 I agree with you about 4.2.2. Reading 4.3.7 now... 05:14:18 *_3b* isn't thinking particularly clearly at the moment though, so could be completly off :) 05:16:54 <_3b> and i guess the bit about 'system class' limits that paragraph of 4.2.2 further 05:18:06 Yeah, but the very last paragraph answers my question I think. 05:18:18 (of 4.3.7) 05:19:21 _3b: Thanks for the help! 05:21:27 Man, SBCL sure is a lot faster than Python (the language). 05:21:44 CPython, to be exact. 05:23:32 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-164-231.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 05:24:11 gigamonkey: it's not that hard to be faster than CPython 05:24:25 though it's not as easy as being faster than Ruby <=1.8 05:26:08 gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:29:15 p_l|home: No, it's not. Which is why I'm astounded every time I notice how really slow CPython is. 05:30:08 gz` [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 05:31:11 dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:31:54 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:32:49 setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:33:50 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 05:39:02 well, at least it got a bytecode-based engine, though afaik the current one doesn't change much from AST 05:40:39 p_l: Perl is even much faster for strings than CPython 05:41:36 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 05:41:41 Adamant: Perl also got at least a decade jump start on it :P 05:41:52 and particular interest in strings 05:42:06 true 05:42:27 (well, not a decade, but close to one when it comes to widespread use) 05:44:37 does python support optimization declarations? Because without them even with a very good implementation it probably could not be optimized as well as C or annotated CL 05:46:22 phadthai: recently they started about adding type declarations 05:46:45 interesting 05:48:08 or so I heard 05:48:19 I haven't really touched Python in two years 05:51:06 if it can make a distinction between "compile" time and runtime that would also be an evolution, especially if it eventually has a template or macro system heh 05:51:55 not yet, afaik 05:52:50 you probably want to look at PyPy stuff 05:53:12 that's a PreScheme-like version of Python for compiling Python 05:54:05 I once read a bit about pypy but that was in its very infancy; I'm not a python user myself 05:54:45 -!- mjonsson_ [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:54:46 rpython is not quite python. 05:55:56 I think it's matured quite a bit 05:56:03 though not completely 05:56:45 drewc: is the smug source available? 05:58:15 but yes, PyPy has so far potential to be the fastest Python out there 05:58:31 dunno if it reached self-hosting yet 05:59:46 -!- scottj [~scott@206.212.250.58] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:00:10 Although, it's unlikely to beat javascript in that regard. 06:01:22 not sure, given the current JS compilers... 06:02:08 So far JS has been kicking the crap out of python, including pypy, iirc. 06:02:42 PyPy afaik is not yet complete and incapable of self-hosting... running on top of CPython would crush performance rather surely :D 06:04:11 hmm... they either dumped the LLVM approach or are so far using the old psyco JIT 06:07:11 When I interviewed him, Peter Deutsch had some interesting things to say about his attemps to build a Python on top of a highly-tuned Smalltalk virtual machine. 06:07:38 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:07:44 There were some language features that made things very hard to implement efficiently. 06:07:48 And also the problem of not really having a specification other than what CPython does. 06:08:27 I hope that JS starts to displace python on the desktop. :) 06:08:27 the PEP should have specified Python to some degree at this point 06:08:38 especially with the switch to Python 3 06:11:18 That may be. 06:13:03 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:16:59 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.102.101.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:20:04 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 06:24:27 hohum_ [dcorbe@apollo.corbe.net] has joined #lisp 06:25:28 -!- hohum [dcorbe@apollo.corbe.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:33:46 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-24-28-30-165.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: I'm big in Japan] 06:36:59 Zhivago: windows and Mac have a growing, significant population of JS-based apps 06:37:10 *p_l|home* used one to file his tax return, even 06:38:29 and it's packed together into one of the few JS VMs that I respect, namely the Adobe Flash one. Not for some great speeds, but because it has *stable speed* 06:39:02 -!- drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:39:03 (and most of my issues with flash are related to uncommon config or beta software) 06:40:39 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-66-249.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:43:55 p_l|home: is the node.js one nice as well? 06:44:07 tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 06:53:47 Adamant: Node.js afaik doesn't have it's own engine and piggybacks on another, often V8 afaik 06:53:51 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:54:02 yeah, I meant V8 06:54:06 I thought it only used V8 06:54:34 and frankly speaking, Chrome might be fast in many places, but I am very wary of it, as it has proven to be bigger resource hog than Eclipse 06:54:37 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 06:55:29 so I only use it for websites that my not-always-compatible changes to FF made stop working 06:55:45 iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@61.43.139.4] has joined #lisp 06:55:47 (and for mobile banking and WizzAir checkin there's Opera) 06:55:58 s/mobile/internet/ 06:57:57 in my experience CPython's strengths are in its built-in libraries 06:58:40 you can write a shell script and expect everything to just work given you have recent enough version of python 07:00:05 -!- andrew007 [~andrew_zu@219.136.142.71] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:00:26 the weak points are in its design. for example, what does a default value for a named parameter mean? when should it be evaluated (in python they are evaluated at read time (or at the equivalent of it)) 07:02:26 -!- drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:03:00 xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@58.41.6.117] has joined #lisp 07:05:54 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 07:06:13 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.199.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:07:07 -!- leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:08:28 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 07:09:11 well, it's the common weakness of "spec by most common implementation" 07:10:41 also known as "C code makes for bad spec" 07:11:10 :) 07:11:33 okay that's it 07:11:34 -!- wareya [~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 07:21:15 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-242.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:29:20 -!- kmc [kmc@clozure-5A26C47B.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: kmc] 07:32:14 heh... today's xkcd... I expect murdering a lot of people due to its contents (if I happen by someone who will spew bullshit about Angle of Attack being main source of lift... the cleaning dept will have a lot of work) 07:37:54 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 07:42:30 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 07:46:37 serichsen [~user@f048165088.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 07:46:38 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-242.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:47:53 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-242.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:54:32 -!- loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:58:49 pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-242.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:58:49 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-242.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:58:50 -!- pdo_ is now known as pdo 08:04:54 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:05:17 Good morning! 08:05:57 -!- dto1 is now known as dto 08:07:38 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.199.58] has joined #lisp 08:07:50 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-66-249.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:09:52 jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-158.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:11:14 -!- xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@58.41.6.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:13:30 -!- quotemstr [~quotemstr@c-67-183-23-114.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: quotemstr] 08:13:44 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:13:48 quotemstr [~quotemstr@c-67-183-23-114.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:14:44 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-164-231.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:16:47 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:18:30 -!- quotemstr [~quotemstr@c-67-183-23-114.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:18:30 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-242.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:18:56 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-242.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 08:20:57 tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:23:49 kingless [~user@adsl-242-215-95.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 08:24:24 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 08:24:50 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 08:27:17 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 08:27:42 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 08:28:31 quotemstr [~quotemstr@c-67-183-23-114.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:30:45 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-242.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:31:47 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-242.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 08:32:51 pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.196.151] has joined #lisp 08:34:21 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@vpn173.vpn.ucm.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:35:24 pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-242.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 08:35:24 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-242.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:35:24 -!- pdo_ is now known as pdo 08:36:57 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-60-82-254-233-53.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:40:01 If you were to design a CL system today, how would you organize the tag bits and why? 08:40:12 fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-084-056-139-181.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 08:42:47 beach: I'd start by making a 64bit ARM 08:43:29 btw, has anyone ever tried AS/400's approach to a CL system? 08:44:09 Well, OpenGenera somehow fits, but it was coincidental 08:44:40 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:45:31 beach: do you mean a hardware-software system? 08:46:17 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:46:21 I'd probably try to design some scheme where I can reasonably separate pointers from everything else with minimal data loss (which would probably mean some weird LSB tag) 08:46:48 like an unaligned pointer for an architecture that has only aligned access 08:46:54 stassats: Software on stock hardware. 08:49:09 then I'd have some weird transforms for memory->register and register->memory to ensure the I can use both LSB and MSB tags cause no way I'm using MSB tags for amd64 pointers 08:49:50 beach: you can look into SBCL internals manual, section 6.1 Type tags 08:50:14 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-20-82-64-58-93.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 08:51:18 stassats: I assume that would tell me what SBCL is currently doing, and now how someone would do it from scratch. 08:51:52 p_l|home: What would be the point of making a 64-bit ARM? 08:52:15 beach: yes, that's what i would do, study the previous works and then think how it can be improved, if at all 08:52:46 stassats: I am at the thinking part now. I just need to know arguments for or against certain ways of doing it. 08:53:30 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-167-5.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:54:06 beach: i think there are three major sensible solutions: the smalltalk way, the cmu/sbcl way, the cmu dylan way 08:54:34 -!- p_l|home [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:55:04 (where i assume cmu/sbcl way is pretty close to the way acl and lispworks do things too) 08:55:28 nikodemus: where can one find a description of the first and the third? 08:55:40 I was going to ask the same. 08:56:12 there are those books about smalltalk 08:56:22 Smalltalk-80: The Language and its Implementation, maybe there 08:58:06 stassats: smalltalk-80, yep. basically fixnums have non-zero lowtags and pointers have zero lowtags -- eveyrthing else is in the widetag 08:58:13 the other... let me see 08:58:48 -!- naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:59:46 can be found here: http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/64 08:59:47 http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/project/clisp/hackers/ram/work/object.txt 09:00:41 oh, and then there's the cola thing. though it's less about tags and more about objects themselves 09:01:12 which is: make the pointer point to start of data, and have the widetag _before_ the pointer 09:01:22 before the data, i mean 09:02:19 makes for pretty easy foreign interop, since you can pass your own pointers to foreign code directly (after clearing the lowtags, obviously) 09:02:25 What would be the point of having a nonzero fixnum tag? 09:03:05 beach: it makes pointer operations cheap and fixnum ops expensive -- a different tradeoff. and you can use 0 for null pretty easy then 09:03:30 I see, yes. 09:03:38 at least that's the rationale smalltalks seem to use for it: being able to deref a pointer without needing to mask the lowtag 09:03:53 which _might_ also help the cpu reason about thing 09:06:24 If one doesn't reserve tag bits for each float format, where does ont store the type information that allows one to distinguish them? 09:06:35 s/ont/one/ 09:07:28 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:08:28 sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:11:24 The only solution I can imagine would be to allocate an entire extra word to keep the type information. 09:14:37 Blkt [~user@93-33-140-132.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 09:15:07 beach: that's what smalltalk does. the other alternative is the cmu dylan solution 09:15:34 nikodemus: I could look that up I suppose, but just in case you have a short explanation... 09:16:11 read the link i pasted above. it's pretty short, and i would just make a mess of it :) 09:16:27 Ah, OK. Thanks! 09:16:48 good day everyone 09:17:06 (lots of neat stuff in the old cmu archives under project/clisp/hackers) 09:17:25 <_3b> also, how many float formats do you need to distinguish with a small # of tag bits? either they are >= word size and need boxed anyway, or they are much smaller and you have room for extra tag bits 09:17:47 Krystof [~csr21@nat65.mia.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:18:13 -!- iNtERrUpT [~interrupt@61.43.139.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:18:37 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 09:20:39 _3b: Sure, but just because they need to be "boxed anyway" doesn't mean one should allocate two words instead of one. But maybe that's not so bad. 09:21:06 <_3b> what other option is there? 09:21:33 _3b: reserve a tag bit, and allocate a single word (say for double-precition floats on a 64-bit machine). 09:21:43 <_3b> 0 or -32 tag bits don't sound like practical options :) 09:22:09 <_3b> right... that works for 1 format, other float formats use a separate scheme 09:22:42 indeed. 09:24:47 *_3b* would probably try to avoid calling it 'double precision' if it wasn't actually using a whole 64 bits though 09:25:52 I thought that was IEEE floating-point terminology, 09:26:08 <_3b> right, that's my point 09:26:08 Oh, sorry, I misread. 09:26:47 <_3b> overlap of CL float type names and common non-cl float types is unfortunate :/ 09:27:26 I am not suggesting anything else. I can see either of two solutions: 1. have tag bits indicating such a float, and the rest being a pointer to a single 64-bit word, or having genral "pointer" tag bits, and allocating an extra word containing type information. 09:27:43 s/and/and 2./ 09:29:26 -!- Blkt [~user@93-33-140-132.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:30:20 <_3b> hmm, now i'm getting confused about how i expect boxing to work :p 09:32:11 <_3b> i think i was suggesting more that you would want both options, and possibly a 3rd for smaller immediate floats 09:32:52 -!- rootzlevel [~hpd@91-66-216-220-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:33:00 *_3b* isn't sure i'd bother with the not-quite-64-bit floats though 09:35:04 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:39:26 -!- Krystof [~csr21@nat65.mia.three.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:44:13 naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has joined #lisp 09:45:51 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 09:49:43 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 09:49:59 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Client Quit] 09:53:59 timor [~timor@port-92-195-159-9.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 09:55:51 Does anybody actually maintain fset and misc-extensions? 09:56:24 H4ns`` [~user@p579F8F65.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:57:01 angavrilov: yes 09:57:49 It's just that about a year ago I wrote to the author with some patches, and still don't have any reply... 09:57:59 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:58:43 send him another email 09:59:55 -!- H4ns` [~user@p579F87FC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:01:53 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-5-160.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:06:08 ak70 [~ak70@user050.195.users.nextweb.net.mt] has joined #lisp 10:09:06 ska` [~user@ppp-115-87-237-74.revip4.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 10:10:05 rootzlevel [~hpd@91-66-216-220-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 10:10:27 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-38-233.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:10:43 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-70-67.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:11:45 -!- ska` [~user@ppp-115-87-237-74.revip4.asianet.co.th] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:12:57 Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050072045.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:14:32 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@pD9E273A9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:14:49 dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 10:20:10 ska` [~user@ppp-115-87-237-74.revip4.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 10:21:18 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-242.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo] 10:21:22 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:21:27 lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 10:30:07 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 10:34:39 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Client Quit] 10:35:02 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 10:35:14 -!- katofiad [~k2t0f12d@121.98.185.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:35:41 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 10:38:23 Guthur [~Guthur@cpc1-belf4-0-0-cust889.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 10:38:58 -!- kingless [~user@adsl-242-215-95.rmo.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:41:13 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:46:07 -!- ak70 [~ak70@user050.195.users.nextweb.net.mt] has left #lisp 10:49:17 Joreji [~thomas@82-006.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 10:49:36 rdd [~user@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 10:53:02 -!- tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:53:07 -!- mal__ [~mal@www2.wimmekes.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:54:09 mal__ [~mal@www2.wimmekes.net] has joined #lisp 11:05:41 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-3-59.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 11:08:30 *Xach* feels the thrill of another full day of productive Lisp hacking! 11:09:35 Joreji_ [~thomas@82-006.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:09:38 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@82-006.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Client Quit] 11:09:42 wbooze` [~user@xdsl-87-79-175-155.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:09:53 homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-175-155.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:10:23 Xach: About to begin? 11:10:54 Yes! 11:11:55 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-52-152.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:12:20 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.196.151] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:12:34 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-52-152.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:12:37 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 11:12:42 *attila_lendvai* is torn between that and a bit of gaming after a very long time 11:14:44 attila_lendvai: hahaha 11:14:52 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 11:15:23 nice typo you made there 11:15:29 fe[nl]ix: just don't laugh! i'm just answering your leading slash mail on iolib with a few surprising examples... ;) 11:15:35 ah, that one 11:16:31 well, i wouldn't use "nice" to describe it. but seems like it was only me who noticed... maybe i shouldn't have sent that mail pointing it out after all... :) 11:16:51 reminds me of "Tales from the crypt" :D 11:17:12 loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 11:18:45 Why doesn't alexandria have something very like its ensure-gethash function, but implemented as a macro with lazy evaluation for the 'default' argument?.. 11:24:27 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7575a8.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 11:25:21 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.12.216] has joined #lisp 11:26:34 rpx__ [~rpx@9-36.4-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 16:39:01 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 16:39:01 16:39:01 -!- names: ccl-logbot Ginei_Morioka Guthur Edward_ fmeyer loxs TomJ puchacz mega1 V-ille kclifton timor s1gma_ emma sabalaba daniel__ gonzojive Zephyrus Patzy hohoho billstclair ehu redline6561 naryl mcspiff fiveop bhyde ikki nyef legumbre_ dreish dto katesmith wbooze homie e-future nowhere_man phrixos LiamH jmcphers mrSpec arbscht faux pdo pavelludiq cch rootzlevel Yuuhi fda314925 jewel tessier ziarkaen krappie_ starseeker urandom__ morphling stassats mal__ 16:39:01 -!- names: Davidbrcz lhz ska` dfox Ragnaroek Jabberwockey H4ns`` mcsontos sellout Nshag stis tcr serichsen freiksenet Deesl hohum_ setheus gz` Kenjin_ humasect gigamonkey gz incandenza simplechat dys xavieran ost``` logia_th peterhil Kaer jso ragnul MetalDust fe[nl]ix Fullma c|mell Xach austinh SCVirus Euthydemus sonnym hugod Demosthenes benny dborba _3b` sbahra ``Erik zvrba gnooth tsuru Dodek xinming_ lnostdal Ralith TraumaPony ASau` pjb moah z0d debiandebian 16:39:01 -!- names: schmrkc sykopomp boysetsfrog wol adeht skalawag Intensity amaron phadthai Jasko svr1 Hraban guaqua lisppaste mstevens vandemar clop lonstein lemoinem Fare Salamander_ JuanDaugherty angavrilov deepfire johs pok abend cataska specbot franki^ fihi09 Obfuscate mornfall s0ber AntiSpamMeta Odin- minion jsoft_ cods qebab seejay` kuwabara srcerer cmm- dostoyev1ky pkhuong_ Adamant slyrus__ djinni` baley Buganini stepnem mathrick super__ Quadrescence kleppari 16:39:01 -!- names: hdurer`` chandler johanbev spiaggia lusory BrianRice svk_ Anarch fmu housel sepi vinnana rtoym quasisane derrida beach tychoish mulander yan_ eno Tristam cmeow sigjuice Xof cow-orker clog prip Pepe_ kloeri kmc nasloc__ krl petter` Axioplase_ dmiles_afk kvsari Tasunteld gds Borbus erk_ scode holycow tomaw foom bfein lichtblau sie Tordek vs marienz ineiros stettberger tic mgr Adrinael zeroish Aisling l_a_m [df] galdor dcrawford nullman spacebat Zhivago 16:39:01 -!- names: jpanest jrockway herbieB_ PissedNumlock tokenrove _3b albino ianmcorvidae tvaalen lharc dose zbigniew luis rapacity nuba hypno acieroid turbo24prg joast Yamazaki-kun sid3k joshe `micro p_l blitz_ aoh ecraven cYmen jsnell CrazyEddy antifuchs m4thrick OliverUv Dazhbog Khisanth Kovensky ramus @slyrus_ yahooooo boyscared koollman rotty Draggor eldragon eli delYsid codemonkeyx bobbysmith007 guther vsync qsun felipe cpt_nemo Fade antoszka mtd hdurer_ 16:40:01 -!- daniel__ is now known as daniel 16:40:41 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.102.101.115] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:41:05 fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.102.101.115] has joined #lisp 16:41:09 antivigilante [~antivigil@174-26-89-10.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:31 -!- bhyde [~Adium@c-66-30-201-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:42:38 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-3-59.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 16:44:03 quotemstr [~quotemstr@c-67-183-23-114.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:44:43 -!- quotemstr [~quotemstr@c-67-183-23-114.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:50:19 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:56:32 -!- luis [~luis@nhop.r42.eu] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 16:56:39 Sebastian_Sturm [~Adium@wlan0215.rz.uni-leipzig.de] has joined #lisp 16:58:53 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:59:28 rdd [~user@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 17:02:35 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-32-127-140.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:42 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-24-147-116-20.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:07:10 wvdschel [~wim@78-20-14-180.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 17:07:39 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-242.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo] 17:07:49 -!- kclifton [~kclifton@s198-166-45-245.ab.hsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: kclifton] 17:10:37 leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has joined #lisp 17:12:18 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.102.101.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:13:47 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-24-147-116-20.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:14:33 fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.102.101.115] has joined #lisp 17:15:17 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 17:16:52 Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:11 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@host81-132-92-254.range81-132.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:19:23 upward [~upward@modemcable004.209-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 17:19:28 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:19:34 -!- V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:22:28 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-3-59.monradsl.monornet.hu] has left #lisp 17:24:03 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 17:28:21 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 17:28:22 -!- leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.20] 17:28:49 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:29:54 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:30:57 nickw [~nickw@94-194-181-82.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:31:03 -!- nickw [~nickw@94-194-181-82.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 17:31:18 -!- c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:31:22 nickw [~nickw@94-194-181-82.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:32:13 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:33:33 -!- s1gma_ [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:35:52 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 17:35:52 17:35:52 -!- names: ccl-logbot mcsontos leo2007 nickw Xach bgs100 zomgbie upward Dawgmatix BrandLeeJones fmeyer wvdschel ace4016 rdd Sebastian_Sturm antivigilante Ginei_Morioka Edward_ loxs TomJ puchacz mega1 timor emma daniel gonzojive Zephyrus Patzy hohoho ehu redline6561 naryl mcspiff fiveop ikki nyef legumbre_ dreish dto katesmith wbooze homie e-future nowhere_man phrixos LiamH jmcphers mrSpec arbscht faux pavelludiq cch rootzlevel Yuuhi fda314925 jewel tessier ziarkaen 17:35:52 -!- names: krappie_ starseeker urandom__ morphling stassats mal__ Davidbrcz lhz ska` dfox Ragnaroek Jabberwockey H4ns`` sellout Nshag stis tcr serichsen freiksenet Deesl hohum_ setheus gz` Kenjin_ humasect gigamonkey gz incandenza dys xavieran ost``` logia_th peterhil Kaer jso ragnul MetalDust fe[nl]ix Fullma austinh SCVirus Euthydemus sonnym hugod Demosthenes benny dborba _3b` sbahra ``Erik zvrba gnooth tsuru Dodek xinming_ lnostdal Ralith TraumaPony ASau` pjb moah 17:35:52 -!- names: z0d debiandebian schmrkc sykopomp boysetsfrog wol adeht skalawag Intensity amaron phadthai Jasko svr1 Hraban guaqua lisppaste mstevens vandemar clop lonstein lemoinem Fare Salamander_ JuanDaugherty angavrilov deepfire johs pok abend cataska specbot franki^ fihi09 Obfuscate mornfall s0ber AntiSpamMeta Odin- minion jsoft_ cods qebab seejay` kuwabara srcerer cmm- dostoyev1ky pkhuong_ Adamant slyrus__ djinni` baley Buganini stepnem mathrick super__ 17:35:52 -!- names: Quadrescence kleppari hdurer`` chandler johanbev spiaggia lusory BrianRice svk_ Anarch fmu housel sepi vinnana rtoym quasisane derrida beach tychoish mulander yan_ eno Tristam cmeow sigjuice Xof cow-orker clog prip Pepe_ kloeri kmc nasloc__ krl petter` Axioplase_ dmiles_afk kvsari Tasunteld gds Borbus erk_ scode holycow tomaw foom bfein lichtblau sie Tordek vs marienz ineiros stettberger tic mgr Adrinael zeroish Aisling l_a_m [df] galdor dcrawford nullman 17:35:52 -!- names: spacebat Zhivago jpanest jrockway herbieB_ PissedNumlock tokenrove _3b albino ianmcorvidae tvaalen lharc dose zbigniew rapacity nuba hypno acieroid turbo24prg joast Yamazaki-kun sid3k joshe `micro p_l blitz_ aoh ecraven cYmen jsnell CrazyEddy antifuchs m4thrick OliverUv Dazhbog Khisanth Kovensky ramus @slyrus_ yahooooo boyscared koollman rotty Draggor eldragon eli delYsid codemonkeyx bobbysmith007 guther vsync qsun felipe cpt_nemo Fade antoszka mtd hdurer_ 17:37:13 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:38:24 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-242.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:41:17 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:45:47 -!- pkhuong_ is now known as pkhuong 17:47:46 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-245-112.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:48:08 Dissonant_World [~dw@95-54-65-166.dynamic.novgorod.dslavangard.ru] has joined #lisp 17:49:11 tell me the name of the Russian-speaking conference 17:49:40 ehu: FWIW, cmucl can trace local flet/labels functions, if they haven't been inlined. 17:51:46 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:53:14 -!- Dissonant_World [~dw@95-54-65-166.dynamic.novgorod.dslavangard.ru] has left #lisp 17:53:43 sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has joined #lisp 17:55:57 jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-34-90.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:57:15 -!- nickw [~nickw@94-194-181-82.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:58:05 Good evening everyone! 17:58:09 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:58:16 Hello beach. 17:58:29 nyef: What are you working on? 17:58:58 Something in emacs to make working on SBCL VOPs easier. 17:59:12 hadronzoo [~user@ppp-70-251-117-136.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 17:59:21 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 17:59:32 Good, good! :) 18:00:00 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 18:00:08 I'm probably not going to do much more with it at this point, actually. 18:00:14 kclifton [~kclifton@s198-166-45-245.ab.hsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 18:00:16 nickw [~misterncw@94-194-181-82.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:00:29 -!- nickw is now known as misterncw 18:00:35 It's at the point where making it be of any more use would be Hard. 18:00:55 I know what you mean. But it can still be fun to work on. 18:01:09 True. 18:01:20 -!- wvdschel [~wim@78-20-14-180.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:02:09 Frustrating, though, when fighting an unfamiliar lisp and environment, and working on an unfamiliar sort of task. 18:02:46 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-152-102.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 18:04:28 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:04:38 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-242.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:04:39 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.50.120] has joined #lisp 18:05:02 *beach* goes back to answering accumulated email. 18:09:13 c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:09:40 rtoym: what syntax does it use for tracing local functions? 18:09:45 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 18:10:52 -!- loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:11:03 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-242.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:13:57 -!- Sebastian_Sturm [~Adium@wlan0215.rz.uni-leipzig.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:15:15 aerique [~euqirea@aerique.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 18:15:47 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:16:05 -!- hadronzoo [~user@ppp-70-251-117-136.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:16:22 Jabberwock [~Jens@f050066005.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:17:24 rtoym: Would http://www.lisphacker.com/temp/voplife.png be of interest to you? 18:19:08 -!- phrixos [~clarkema@bs0176.nerc-bas.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:19:53 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050072045.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:20:06 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:20:18 phrixos [~clarkema@bs0176.nerc-bas.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 18:23:50 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:24:22 -!- cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:26:22 katofiad [~k2t0f12d@121.98.185.20] has joined #lisp 18:27:00 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.176.194.201] has joined #lisp 18:27:03 ehu: or you could use my portable com.informatimago.common-lisp.utility:tracing-labels (funnily, I haven't written a tracing-flet yet). 18:27:34 pjb: ah. does it need compiler support? 18:27:40 pbj: if not, that's great! 18:27:56 I'll just test it for compatibility with abcl. 18:28:01 ehu: no. You just type tracing- before labels, and recompile the function. 18:28:15 http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/com/informatimago/common-lisp/utility.lisp 18:28:54 -!- phrixos [~clarkema@bs0176.nerc-bas.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:29:25 drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:52 phrixos [~clarkema@bs0176.nerc-bas.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 18:30:01 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 18:30:56 -!- aerique [~euqirea@aerique.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 18:31:16 slyrus_: smug source isn't exactly publically available (i'm not quite finished really), but i can give you a preview copy if you're interested 18:32:29 it's identical in functionality to just copy/pasting from the tutorial, but it's optimized for space and speed rather than tutorial readability 18:32:44 *drewc* realizes he's replying to scrollback from last night 18:33:20 use minion memo 18:33:25 ... Please, please, /please/ tell me you're using git for source control? 18:33:32 Blkt [~user@93-33-117-158.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 18:33:53 (A repository called "smug.git" is just too much to pass up.) 18:35:24 khumba [~khumba@S010600259ce46bb1.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:01 abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:45 rdd` [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:41:06 -!- rdd [~user@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:41:13 nyef: i am! :) 18:42:02 -!- benny [~benny@i577A712E.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:42:06 i choose smug before i chose what it stands for, because i liked the name... Simple Monadic something something. 18:42:21 minion: memo for slyrus_ : smug source isn't exactly publically available (i'm not quite 18:42:21 finished really), but i can give you a preview copy if you're 18:42:21 interested. 18:42:21 Remembered. I'll tell slyrus_ when he/she/it next speaks. 18:42:25 damnit 18:42:48 erc doesn't quite copy/paste right does it 18:43:57 wvdschel [~wim@188.188.100.78] has joined #lisp 18:44:37 benny [~benny@i577A2383.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:45:01 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 18:45:13 drewc: why did you define =and, =or and =not, instead of just using lazy streams as your result lists? or does the original paper do this too? 18:47:08 *cmm-* should just go check instead of asking, but academic papers containing the word "monad" in them make him letargic :) 18:50:06 easyE [mYE0GEtuJa@panix3.panix.com] has joined #lisp 18:51:15 Soulman [~knute@159.80-202-237.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 18:52:00 cmm-: i'm not quite parsing that.. =and, =or and =not test parsers, not streams. 18:53:00 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:53:01 -!- wvdschel [~wim@188.188.100.78] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:53:26 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 18:53:59 =AND is '>>' in haskell (i could just as easily of called it =PROGN), OR is '++' from the Maybe monad, PLUS is ++ from the List monad. 18:54:49 oh... i see what your asking.. lazy result lists, not lazy input streams! 18:54:53 *drewc* is still waking up 18:54:57 drewc: yup 18:55:17 (although the latter is also a possibility) 18:56:13 hohoho_ [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 18:56:28 mostly because i could define =or as i do and not need the lazy result lists, which can actually cause a lot of problems holding on to things that long ago should have been gc'd 18:56:36 it's quite possible I'm missing something here, though. too much low-level C programming lately, not enough fad following... 18:56:59 yeah, laziness can be a pain 18:57:02 in the original paper, they even create a combinator equivalent to FORCE in order to subvert lazyness 18:57:45 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 18:58:26 using something like CLAZY and redifining BIND, and RESULT should be enough to get lazy results if you wanted to play around with them 18:59:03 *drewc* is actually working on translating the second half of the paper where the parser monad is derived from the parameterized state transformer monad 18:59:57 which is very cool from a theory standpoint, but not as useful as the 'manual' way for actual real world parsing in CL 19:00:26 mainly because i can inline bind, =or and result if they are not generic functions 19:00:49 which gains a significant amount of speed and space in sbcl 19:01:09 timack [~tim@hlfx49-142177099164.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 19:06:06 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.190.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:07:02 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:07:31 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:07:47 drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 19:07:48 -!- timack [~tim@hlfx49-142177099164.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:07:59 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.185.48] has joined #lisp 19:08:55 gimbal [gimbal@218.sub-72-100-82.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 19:09:28 timack [~tim@hlfx54-1-40.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 19:10:09 Avisch [~Avisch@70-101-99-64.dsl1-field.roc.ny.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 19:10:20 hi folks. anyone around might be familiar with CL-RDFXML ? I'm looking at options to the whole Allegrograph/Allegrocache bundle - found CL-RDFXML at the CLiki, and when I find its svn repo, it looks like the last update to CL-RDFXML was almost a year and a half ago. Also, the project page for it, linked from the CLiki, is having some kind of httpd configuration issues, it would seem 19:10:27 bozhidar [~user@189-10.gp.evo.bg] has joined #lisp 19:11:43 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 19:15:24 -!- rdd` is now known as rdd 19:15:44 hm. cl-semantic, hadn't found that before today :) 19:19:12 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 19:23:10 -!- kclifton [~kclifton@s198-166-45-245.ab.hsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: kclifton] 19:23:22 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 19:24:00 -!- moah [~gnu@178.1.122.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:30:32 _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 19:30:59 loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 19:33:40 tcleval [~funnyguy@187.114.113.26] has joined #lisp 19:33:42 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:34:05 what do you guys use to automate firefox? possibly to build webbots or web crawlers 19:34:25 nothing 19:35:27 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #lisp 19:35:28 because using firefox for bots or crawlers is quite a stupid idea 19:35:36 yeah, automate firefox? there are http clients available without all the GUI stuff 19:35:44 Bronsa [~bronsa@host69-174-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:35:54 hi all 19:35:59 minion: drakma 19:36:00 drakma: Drakma is a fully-featured Common Lisp HTTP client library that knows how to handle HTTP/1.1 chunking, persistent connections, re-usable sockets, SSL, continuable uploads, cookies, and other things. http://www.cliki.net/drakma 19:36:00 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7575a8.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:36:04 minion: closure-html? 19:36:05 closure-html: Closure-html is a portable HTML parsing library that understands malformed HTML. http://www.cliki.net/closure-html 19:36:08 i have a question 19:36:27 so do I. what's yours? >< 19:36:39 is '(a b) the same as writing (list 'a 'b) ? 19:36:44 nope 19:36:55 i thought so 19:36:56 afaik '(a b) could be regarded as a constant 19:37:04 whereas (list 'a 'b) produces a new list at time of eval 19:37:12 yeah 19:37:29 I can credit sbcl's pedanticness for that knowledge, as I recall >< 19:37:34 so '(a b) is not a cons? 19:37:38 it's a cons 19:37:39 no it's a cons 19:37:47 oh. 19:37:58 is it possible to use defvar in a loop? like if I had a p-list of symbols and values that I want to conditionally define? 19:38:03 a literal list, which can't be modified 19:38:05 It's... four conses and three symbols, isn't it? 19:38:10 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-149-216.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:38:15 ok 19:38:49 vs: not really 19:38:49 vs: Possible, but not very normal. You might try a macrolet that accumulates defvar forms in a loop and returns the whole as the expansion. 19:38:56 drakma is cool, but what if I want to automate flash applications? iMacros supports flash, but only on the $ version. 19:38:57 yay! 19:39:04 but it's possible to use proclaim special and setf 19:39:07 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:39:09 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:39:40 -!- _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:39:46 stassats and nyef: is there a more idiomatic way? I want to conditionally define globals depending on machine 19:39:59 and machine is gathered during runtime 19:40:03 #+sbcl (defvar *foo* "SBCL") 19:40:11 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.68] has joined #lisp 19:40:17 a giant let won't work; there are too many things 19:40:58 -!- mcspiff [~user@142.68.76.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:41:15 that sounds a bit fishy, why do you want to do that? 19:41:17 Define them all, and have an initialization function? 19:41:53 stassats, well this is for emacs... and I have machine-specific parameters I want to use 19:42:13 Guthur [~Guthur@cpc1-belf4-0-0-cust889.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 19:42:20 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #lisp 19:42:25 emacs lisp? well, this channel is for common lisp 19:42:49 stassats: right, but this is also something that is applicable to common lisp 19:42:58 emacs isn't written in common lisp by now? 19:43:00 ouch 19:43:03 my main problem was in the quoting 19:43:24 because I can't get (loop for k in (cdr machines) by #'cddr do (defvar k (plist-get k))) to take k as the symbol 19:43:59 vs: If you're going to use an egregious hack, you may as well involve EVAL. 19:44:04 vs: and the solution in common lisp is: don't do it 19:44:20 -!- gimbal [gimbal@218.sub-72-100-82.myvzw.com] has left #lisp 19:44:47 having different values of variables is ok, but having different variables depending on something doesn't sound good to me 19:45:01 it seems that it might be more elegan to (defvar *parameter* nil) and then have an init function that takes sets all these conditionally on the current machine... does that seem better? 19:45:34 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.134.172] has joined #lisp 19:45:34 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.134.172] has quit [Changing host] 19:45:34 Stattrav [~Stattrav@unaffiliated/stattrav] has joined #lisp 19:45:43 ... didn't I /just/ suggest that, five minutes ago? 19:46:45 nyef: you did, just making sure I understood 19:49:16 -!- Avisch [~Avisch@70-101-99-64.dsl1-field.roc.ny.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:56:51 -!- loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:57:05 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:57:15 -!- khumba [~khumba@S010600259ce46bb1.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Oyasumi.] 19:58:18 -!- ska` [~user@ppp-115-87-237-74.revip4.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:58:18 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 19:59:10 -!- misterncw [~misterncw@94-194-181-82.zone8.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:01:35 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:02:15 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:04:50 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-084-056-181-159.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 20:04:54 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.68] has joined #lisp 20:06:19 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 20:09:18 etenil [~user@93-96-0-153.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:09:21 Hi there 20:09:33 how is it possible to know if a variable is bound? 20:10:51 boundp 20:11:04 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@pD9E273A9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:11:37 so (defvar *thing* (if (boundp *foo*) *foo* *bar*)) would work? 20:11:54 (boundp '*foo*) 20:11:55 (I'm a beginner) 20:11:56 but yes. 20:11:58 ok 20:12:01 thanks ehu 20:12:06 welcome 20:12:46 mh 20:12:56 that doesn't solve my problem actually 20:13:12 bhyde [~Adium@c-66-30-201-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:16 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-158.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:13:19 I can't get slime to work on emacs, and the #emacs guys didn't know about slime 20:13:19 in that case, the problem probably has more context 20:13:32 maybe someone here can help 20:13:43 bhyde1 [~Adium@74.61.201.1] has joined #lisp 20:13:50 What sort of "can't get to work"? 20:14:22 I've installed gcl, and i've installed slime manually following the manual 20:14:51 but when I do M-x slime, I get the error: "Error in OR [or a callee]: The variable *LOAD-PATHNAME* is unbound." 20:15:01 why did you choose gcl? 20:15:09 I don't know 20:15:11 why not? 20:15:19 a beginner should choose anything but gcl. 20:15:29 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:15:29 sbcl, clisp, ccl whatever. 20:15:31 ah 20:15:33 all good choices. 20:15:37 <_3b> 'slime not working' sounds like a good 'why not' :p 20:15:37 gcl: no. 20:15:42 you think it could be related? 20:15:47 definitely. 20:15:58 *LOAD-PATHNAME* is a system variable. 20:15:59 ok I'll try another one then 20:16:03 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 20:16:13 the fact that GCL doesn't have it (or doesn't initialize it) ... 20:16:40 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.102.101.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:17:05 I'll try sbcl 20:17:13 hopefully it will work 20:17:14 :D 20:18:05 -!- bhyde [~Adium@c-66-30-201-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:19:16 yup that did it 20:19:28 thanks for the help, I wouldn't have thought of that 20:20:24 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@c-69-181-60-125.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:24 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@c-69-181-60-125.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:20:24 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has joined #lisp 20:20:56 -!- etenil [~user@93-96-0-153.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: thanks a lot!] 20:20:57 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 20:22:25 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host69-174-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:22:27 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@unaffiliated/stattrav] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:24:38 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 20:26:30 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-209-105.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:28:09 s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-217-33.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:33 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 20:28:40 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:05 i find it hard to believe that, even with all these 'getting started with lisp and slime' tutorials out there, people are still somehow choosing GCL 20:33:10 it boggles! :) 20:34:11 but it's GNU common lisp, man. 20:34:26 "when you know, you gnu", right? 20:35:15 Yeah, someone should release GNUSBCL! 20:35:17 *franki^* hides 20:36:48 -!- kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has quit [Ping timeout: 600 seconds] 20:37:33 but like, GNU isn't even the C compiler of choice, let alone their scheme and lisp, as far as i'm concerned :) 20:38:48 ... Yeah, let's all switch to using Zeta-C for all our C compiling needs. 20:38:57 drdo` [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 20:39:04 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 20:41:40 -!- drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:46:51 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:47:00 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:49:15 -!- drdo` is now known as drdo 20:49:45 drewc: c compiler of choice? 20:50:35 it's compulsory 20:52:27 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.68] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:52:36 -!- hohum_ is now known as hohum 20:56:43 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:57:04 ehu: The syntax is (trace (flet inner top)) for flet. Use labels for labels. This can be nested like (flet inner2 inner1 top) where inner2 is an flet inside inner1 which is an flet in top. 20:58:16 nyef: Yeah, I have something like that. Someone posted code to show vop lifetimes here long ago. Maybe it was even you? 20:59:03 If it was about three and a half months ago and in elisp, it was me... If it was even longer ago and in CL, it was probably me again. 20:59:06 -!- Blkt [~user@93-33-117-158.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:59:34 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.50.120] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:59:37 It was in CL. 20:59:50 I've been looking into making the lifetime buffer editable, and then I want to have something to back-patch the new lifetimes into the VOP source. 20:59:58 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:00:00 Pretty cool, btw! Don't use it much, but it is really nice to see it when you need it. 21:00:06 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-175-155.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:00:08 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-175-155.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:00:21 Yeah, it's one of those things that you usually don't need because the defaults tend to do the right thing. 21:01:06 At the same time, I'm getting rather tired of feeling like the proverbial "cobbler's child" when it comes to tool support for hacking SBCL. 21:01:18 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:01:58 nyef: nice. thanks. I'll need to cobble up something like that. 21:02:19 nyef: it'll be a good enhancement to ABCL (for those functions which have not been inlined) 21:02:47 DeadPanda [~Brett@host86-149-80-90.range86-149.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:02:51 I'm hoping to have something more useful than my initial demo later on this week, if you want to crib from it. 21:03:36 Joreji [~thomas@82-006.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 21:06:28 askatasuna: clang is teh new hotness IMO 21:07:07 can it build SBCL? 21:08:09 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 21:08:17 no idea 21:08:36 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 21:08:46 I wouldn't expect it to unless it supports GCC-style inline ASM. 21:09:38 could be a fun weekend project 21:10:09 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.176.194.201] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 21:10:56 -!- Jabberwock [~Jens@f050066005.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:11:18 i'm pretty sure it does support gcc style asm actually... it can be used to compile freebsd, and one figures there is some inline asm there. 21:11:19 gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.228.48] has joined #lisp 21:11:27 nyef: it can 21:11:44 *Xach* has a friend who works on it at apple, just confirmed that it does... 21:11:45 fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.102.101.115] has joined #lisp 21:12:08 "and you get way better error messages!" he adds 21:13:00 this is my reason for prefering clang in a nutshell 21:14:02 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.102.101.115] has quit [Client Quit] 21:15:01 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:15:49 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: ZZzzzZZzzzz....] 21:16:07 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 21:23:56 -!- Buganini [~buganini@security-hole.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:24:25 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 21:32:08 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-242.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo] 21:33:42 -!- Joreji [~thomas@82-006.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:33:56 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:36:28 ska` [~user@ppp-115-87-237-74.revip4.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 21:36:41 Joreji [~thomas@82-006.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 21:39:21 Abezethibou [~user@217.131.71.89] has joined #lisp 21:39:34 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has quit [Quit: rich_holygoat] 21:39:36 -!- Abezethibou [~user@217.131.71.89] has quit [Client Quit] 21:40:30 Abezethibou [~user@217.131.71.89] has joined #lisp 21:41:18 -!- Abezethibou [~user@217.131.71.89] has quit [Client Quit] 21:41:20 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.12.216] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:43:22 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-34-90.iburst.co.za] has quit [Quit: *zzz*] 21:43:33 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.50.120] has joined #lisp 21:45:40 TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-76-175-244-227.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:47:54 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has joined #lisp 21:48:05 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:51:25 -!- faux [~user@79.138.223.26.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:53:42 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 21:54:52 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:55:35 -!- petter` [~user@217.118.44.36] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:55:55 petter` [~user@217.118.44.36] has joined #lisp 21:56:14 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.72.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:57:50 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has quit [Quit: rich_holygoat] 21:59:18 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.228.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:59:43 -!- antivigilante [~antivigil@174-26-89-10.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:08:20 -!- sigjuice [~sigjuice@c-24-130-52-60.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:09:22 antivigilante [~antivigil@174-26-89-10.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:10:17 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:10:31 me345 [~me345@adsl-75-15-176-124.dsl.bkfd14.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:10:53 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@c-69-181-60-125.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:10:53 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@c-69-181-60-125.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:10:53 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has joined #lisp 22:13:30 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has quit [Client Quit] 22:14:28 -!- antivigilante [~antivigil@174-26-89-10.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:14:29 xcthulhu [~jpd@pine.noqsi.com] has joined #lisp 22:16:19 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has joined #lisp 22:20:08 -!- leo2007 [~leo@59.57.34.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:22:10 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 22:23:40 -!- bozhidar [~user@189-10.gp.evo.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:26:26 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:27:37 V-ille [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-fe4efb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 22:29:10 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 22:29:56 -!- ska` [~user@ppp-115-87-237-74.revip4.asianet.co.th] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:30:44 jeti [~jeti@p548EB184.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:32:36 jmbr [~jmbr@96.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 22:33:15 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:33:47 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@96.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Client Quit] 22:36:03 euclid2110 [~euclid211@CPE001b38145d10-CM0019477f8dba.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 22:36:05 -!- euclid2110 [~euclid211@CPE001b38145d10-CM0019477f8dba.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:40:30 Jubb [~ghost@129.21.86.138] has joined #lisp 22:40:37 Lizard46 [~Lizard46@173-166-26-206-newengland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 22:43:41 aha! 22:44:23 -!- DeadPanda [~Brett@host86-149-80-90.range86-149.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: DeadPanda] 22:46:10 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:47:56 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has quit [Quit: rich_holygoat] 22:50:29 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483AF4E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:50:56 rat_ [~quassel@c-24-22-21-120.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:51:00 -!- rat_ [~quassel@c-24-22-21-120.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:51:12 rat_ [~quassel@c-24-22-21-120.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:52:53 -!- e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:55:12 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu290.queens.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:55:20 kslt1 [~Sierka1@netblock-208-127-156-74.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 22:56:12 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu290.queens.ox.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 22:57:16 -!- Jubb [~ghost@129.21.86.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:59:18 *Xach* wonders about doing a lightning talk called "The ASDF2 Disaster" 23:02:21 What's disastrous about asdf2? 23:02:30 The configuration? 23:02:36 -!- jeti [~jeti@p548EB184.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:03:57 pjb: adding asdf-utilities then removing it in 2.009 causes fasl loading problems. 23:04:06 http://paste.lisp.org/display/115395 for example 23:04:49 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:05:21 Hi, i'm trying to create a function to asks a question and gives me an answer using conditions in scheme. I got the function set up i just don't know how to call it.This is it: http://www.mediafire.com/?624j3m67r7kbkuc 23:05:58 also, there is no way to extend the source registry incrementally with the new api - for that, it's the same old central-registry stuff. 23:06:19 Lizard46: for scheme help, try #scheme 23:07:35 alright thanks. 23:07:57 -!- Lizard46 [~Lizard46@173-166-26-206-newengland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: http://irc2go.com/] 23:09:02 What's the best way to contribute a patch to cl-utilities? I thought of trying the mailing list but it seems to have been inactive and/or abandoned for long. Also I'm not sure what the appropriate format of patch would be best. 23:09:04 e-future [~e-future@a81-84-164-44.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 23:09:09 -!- e-future [~e-future@a81-84-164-44.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Changing host] 23:09:09 e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 23:10:08 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:10:34 diff -u 23:11:18 stassats: Thanks. That would be my first contribution to a 3rd-party open-source project so I may have some reading to do... 23:11:29 sigjuice [~sigjuice@c-24-130-52-60.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:11:46 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu290.queens.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:12:13 -!- Joreji [~thomas@82-006.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:12:54 Hexstream: diff & post on list. What more reading do ya need? :) 23:12:59 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.33.72] has joined #lisp 23:14:17 schmrkc: Not sure. Anyway, I guess I should eventually learn to use mailing lists. Those awkward web interfaces ought not to be the proper way to do it... 23:14:19 -!- sigjuice [~sigjuice@c-24-130-52-60.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:15:29 Hexstream: Mostly you just register on them somehow and mail stuff to them using your mail client of choice. 23:15:39 google web mail perhaps ;) 23:15:56 schmrkc: Oh. But what about browsing the archives? 23:16:22 -!- TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-76-175-244-227.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:17:08 sabalaba [~sabalaba@221.220.254.203] has joined #lisp 23:18:03 wuj [~wuj@pool-74-108-204-117.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:18:57 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:18:58 Hexstream: either you store it all or use the webinterface :) 23:18:58 -!- Soulman [~knute@159.80-202-237.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 23:24:37 or just remember them 23:28:36 Hexstream: as the number of mailing lists go up gnus becomes a nicer and nicer alternative :) 23:29:46 -!- Kenjin_ [~josesanto@bl15-226-229.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 23:30:01 schmrkc: That's probably the answer I was looking for. I seem to remember trying to use it a few years ago but going nowhere because I was going at it depth-first style and it's a bottomless pit of configuration options. I was successfully DOSed. 23:30:47 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl15-226-229.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 23:30:59 smanek [~smanek@c-98-206-218-88.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:40 cch [~user@2001:da8:8001:111:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 23:31:55 Hexstream: My main issue with gnus is that it 1) requires you to start up emacs to check your mail. and 2) when I was living in emacs gnus locked the whole process while retrieving mail. 23:33:53 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@cpc1-belf4-0-0-cust889.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:34:23 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:34:27 Wait. gnus is just a mail client? How would that help you accessing mailing list archives more efficiently? Like, if I subscribe to the mailing list now, there will be no trace of past posts, right? Anyway, probably prematurately worrying again. 23:34:48 Hexstream: correct. 23:35:11 Perhaps there is someway to 'import' archives. I don't know. 23:36:51 Hexstream: or maybe the mailing list is on gmane and all is well. 23:37:30 I thought gmane was another one of those baroque web interfaces... 23:37:41 TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-76-175-244-227.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:37:45 it also provides nntp. 23:40:29 sigjuice [~sigjuice@c-24-130-52-60.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:40:40 Jubb [~ghost@129.21.86.138] has joined #lisp 23:43:16 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 23:46:50 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:48:08 joe____ [~joe@S0106001b63ab3433.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:48:36 -!- joe____ [~joe@S0106001b63ab3433.vc.shawcable.net] has left #lisp 23:49:19 joe____ [~joe@S0106001b63ab3433.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:50:45 FareWell [~Fare@64.119.159.126] has joined #lisp 23:51:05 -!- Dodek [am291698@students.mimuw.edu.pl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:51:06 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:51:47 -!- joe____ [~joe@S0106001b63ab3433.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: joe____] 23:54:14 Dodek [am291698@students.mimuw.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 23:55:39 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 23:56:22 epoxy [~ls3@71-15-26-216.dhcp.hlrg.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 23:58:18 joekarma [~joe@S0106001b63ab3433.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:58:38 Can I use (break) somewhere in a cond ? 23:58:55 Yes, of course. 23:59:05 (Well, possibly not /of course/, but you can.)