00:07:34 -!- kslt1 [~Sierka1@netblock-208-127-156-74.dslextreme.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:07:50 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:08:14 vs: http://paste.lisp.org/display/115252#1 00:09:41 clhs do-symbols 00:09:42 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_do_sym.htm 00:11:54 thanks Hexstream! 00:14:41 -!- kclifton [~kclifton@s198-166-45-245.ab.hsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: kclifton] 00:18:33 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:20:01 Euthydemus` [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.23.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 00:22:40 -!- use_freebsd [d834eb65@gateway/web/freenode/ip.216.52.235.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:23:23 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.23.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:23:36 Ah nice, I finally found a good use for NRECONC: push multiple elements (as a fresh list) to a push/nreverse variable. 00:24:12 SEE? Ditching LOOP truly makes me appreciate the rest of the language more!! 00:24:56 jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 00:28:05 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-176-185.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:28:11 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483C3BB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:30:54 Oh dang. I just never thought of simply using (mapc #'collect my-list) with COLLECTING. 00:31:07 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-147-91.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:31:21 -!- Anarch [~w3@elrond.hsl.washington.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:32:07 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 00:32:43 l4ndfo [~l4ndfo@S0106001cf0520ea3.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 00:36:17 sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.162.242] has joined #lisp 00:37:24 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.162.242] has quit [Client Quit] 00:37:54 beach` [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-13-42.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 00:41:37 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-39-80.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:43:15 -!- Pavitra [~pavitra@76-76-236-67.lisco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:50:15 -!- kmc [clozure@clozure-38BA167A.mycingular.net] has quit [Quit: Quit] 00:50:22 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:51:43 -!- vp8dmh [~clarkema@gnu/webmaster/phrixos] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:52:42 kingless [~kingless@adsl-242-215-95.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 00:53:34 rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@118-92-25-3.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 00:56:11 -!- kingless [~kingless@adsl-242-215-95.rmo.bellsouth.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:56:42 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-169-124.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:56:55 kingless [~kingless@adsl-242-215-95.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:02:13 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:02:28 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 01:04:53 -!- wuj [~wuj@pool-74-108-204-117.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:06:03 derrida [~derrida@unaffiliated/deleuze] has joined #lisp 01:07:25 -!- kingless [~kingless@adsl-242-215-95.rmo.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:14:06 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-74-71.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 01:17:01 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:18:05 kingless [~kingless@166.137.14.198] has joined #lisp 01:18:58 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-74-71.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 01:19:23 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-74-71.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 01:22:15 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 01:22:16 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:22:41 p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 01:23:08 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Client Quit] 01:23:13 p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 01:24:18 -!- gonzojive [~red@171.66.80.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:24:24 -!- jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit [Quit: good night everyone] 01:24:52 -!- kingless [~kingless@166.137.14.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:26:48 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: night] 01:31:06 -!- rbarraud__ [~rbarraud@118-92-25-3.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:39:47 antivigilante [~antivigil@174-26-77-77.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:42:13 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-70-20-56-192.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:48:26 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-26-55.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 01:49:55 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-77-93.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:51:22 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@cpe-24-193-117-17.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 01:51:46 cmpitg [~cmpitg@118.71.132.157] has joined #lisp 01:52:28 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:53:25 let can be used to define functions locally too, right? 01:54:27 vs: flet 01:58:26 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-25-3.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 02:01:03 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@rrcs-64-183-136-38.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:01:03 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@rrcs-64-183-136-38.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 02:01:03 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has joined #lisp 02:02:53 -!- dto1 is now known as dto 02:08:02 thanks austinh 02:10:05 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 02:15:50 wuj [~wuj@pool-74-108-204-117.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:22:10 -!- blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:31:29 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 02:31:55 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:33:03 -!- Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:34:05 -!- ost` [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:35:37 vs: It may be useful to differentiate 'defining functions' with 'establishing function names'. 02:40:39 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 02:44:38 Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 02:51:12 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:55:00 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 02:55:50 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:57:14 -!- Euthydemus` [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.23.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:57:38 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.23.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 02:57:47 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 03:01:02 -!- antivigilante [~antivigil@174-26-77-77.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:02:52 execve [~execve@ppp-81-25-57-185.ultranet.ru] has joined #lisp 03:05:17 dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:06:23 -!- pierrep [~ppasteau@bas1-montreal43-2925385285.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:07:26 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 242 seconds] 03:08:17 p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 03:09:15 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 03:11:10 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-zgskvbzoriglhdkm] has joined #lisp 03:13:56 rukowen [~thehien@113.161.72.89] has joined #lisp 03:17:57 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-58-242.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 03:18:24 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-1-181.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:18:48 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:20:03 p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 03:20:52 rukowen1 [~thehien@113.161.72.89] has joined #lisp 03:22:48 -!- rukowen1 [~thehien@113.161.72.89] has quit [Client Quit] 03:23:07 antivigilante [~antivigil@174-26-77-77.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:23:08 -!- rukowen [~thehien@113.161.72.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:26:33 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@118.71.132.157] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:28:10 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:28:52 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-87-127.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 03:28:57 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:30:17 humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:30:46 pierrep [~ppasteau@bas1-montreal43-2925254816.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 03:33:31 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-58-28-211.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:39:15 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.10/20100914120618]] 03:39:43 -!- kmc [kmc@clozure-5A26C47B.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: kmc] 03:43:03 -!- wuj [~wuj@pool-74-108-204-117.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:45:50 -!- tsuru [~charlie@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:47:00 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 03:51:59 Thanks for the advice on learning lisp and the book. The book is good and I am learning. 03:53:28 is it not possible to have a hash of lists? 03:53:31 and use push? 03:54:39 it is 03:54:59 adeht: with push? 03:55:00 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 03:55:17 vs: (push (gethash key hash-table '()) new-element) 03:55:36 arf. transpose forms 03:58:18 adeht: what if key is a string? 03:58:58 then you likely want a hash-table with :test equal 04:00:57 adeht: not string= ? 04:01:38 not a standard possible value for :test 04:01:41 clhs make-hash-table 04:01:41 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_mk_has.htm 04:07:59 ah, got it adeht, thanks. I had push's arguments swapped 04:08:53 -!- tcleval [~funnyguy@187.58.90.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:08:58 -!- The_Jon_Smith [~The_Jon_S@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:09:18 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has quit [Quit: rich_holygoat] 04:11:24 ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 04:11:30 good morning 04:12:37 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:16:37 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 04:16:59 evening 04:17:22 *p_l|uni* wonders if "extensible hashtables" would be an useful addition 04:17:37 extensible sequences were apparently considered useful enough 04:17:48 Extensible in what regard? 04:18:02 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:18:04 TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@124-148-36-95.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 04:18:11 cmucl has an extensible hash-table implementation, for what you're thinking of, I think. 04:18:28 It might be a starting point. 04:19:48 -!- presto8 [~phunt@c-98-246-149-240.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:22:58 Extensible in the way the extensible sequence protocol works... though it seems someone proposed generic hash tables already 04:23:20 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@rrcs-64-183-136-38.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:23:20 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@rrcs-64-183-136-38.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 04:23:20 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has joined #lisp 04:23:38 lclark [~user@ip70-181-163-100.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:25:21 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 04:30:45 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-242.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:31:49 rukowen [~thehien@113.161.72.89] has joined #lisp 04:32:19 dborba [~dborba@pool-74-105-202-55.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:32:33 -!- rukowen [~thehien@113.161.72.89] has left #lisp 04:33:11 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-25-3.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:33:46 Quick question - is there a way I can create a function that defines a function with the parameter's name? 04:34:18 IE: (create-equals-1 x) and then (x) returns 1 04:34:30 clhs fdefinition 04:34:30 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_fdefin.htm 04:35:15 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has quit [Quit: rich_holygoat] 04:36:05 adeht, thanks - i think that oughta do the trick 04:36:47 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-242.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 04:44:58 heh, yet another power surge 04:44:59 FareWell [~Fare@64.119.159.126] has joined #lisp 04:53:24 -!- beach` is now known as beach 04:53:41 Good morning everyone! 04:54:43 -!- execve [~execve@ppp-81-25-57-185.ultranet.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:55:10 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:55:59 beach: 'morning! 04:57:36 morning beach 04:57:56 *FareWell* was writing a parser, but ended up implementing a cps infrastructure 04:58:14 what preexisting cps infrastructure should I be using instead? 04:58:50 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:59:23 *slyrus_* still doesn't really get monads 04:59:43 -!- naryl [~naryl@213.170.70.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:00:23 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-202-208.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:00:57 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-202-208.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 05:01:00 FareWell: there are two, one of them generated better code, but I have no idea which one. I think the closest to CPS I've ever been was with JS 05:01:59 or cpt infrastructure. 05:02:11 does screamer work well with asdf? 05:02:18 no idea 05:02:47 *FareWell* sees nikodemus has a screamer around 05:03:06 yes, and it's updated for ANSI CL 05:03:35 ASDF by itself only governs compilation and loading of systems, so you might at most need to write an extension to handle Screamer files 05:04:48 *FareWell* git clone git://github.com/nikodemus/screamer.git 05:09:40 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@rrcs-64-183-136-38.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:09:40 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@rrcs-64-183-136-38.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 05:09:40 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has joined #lisp 05:10:35 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 05:11:16 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 05:16:03 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 05:16:11 freiksenet 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[~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 07:14:36 Blkt [~user@93-33-136-247.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:15:07 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.199.58] has joined #lisp 07:19:42 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-tanxbtwtebfgnyjb] has joined #lisp 07:20:11 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-13.vpn.helsinki.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:23:02 what does this error means http://fpaste.org/PgN3/ 07:23:52 * mean 07:25:39 good morning everyone 07:26:00 Blkt, good morning 07:26:13 hi 07:26:24 I think it means you misplaced some parenthesis 07:26:34 and READ failed 07:26:51 Blkt, ok, let me check again 07:26:52 do you use Emacs+SLIME? 07:27:36 Blkt, found 07:27:52 nice 07:27:55 does it work now? 07:28:08 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-242.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo] 07:28:15 Blkt, yes, but not using SLIME yet , need to go through the tutorial video and understand 07:28:24 Blkt, have to run it yet :) 07:28:44 I see 07:29:27 dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 07:29:30 I've been programming in CL for less than a year and trust me if I tell you that the sooner you watch that video, the better for you 07:29:33 nah, same issue 07:29:40 can you paste it? 07:29:52 Blkt, the whole code ? 07:30:00 yes 07:30:19 Blkt, no :( too many internal details :( 07:30:25 I see 07:30:33 Blkt, let me try slowly with each function 07:31:04 same exact error? 07:32:37 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 07:34:24 Blkt, fixed the issue 07:34:28 there was a typo 07:35:27 what kind? 07:36:14 Blkt, in a function after documentation string an extra "o" 07:36:27 :) 07:36:51 freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn1-114.vpn.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 07:39:32 good morning 07:39:39 hi nikodemus 07:43:16 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:43:40 do you plan to go to ELS4 nikodemus 07:43:41 ? 07:45:58 nope. can't afford the trip right now 07:46:13 oh wait, ELS 07:46:31 yes 07:46:41 probably 07:46:44 dunno yet 07:46:50 you thought ILP? 07:47:22 i thought ILC 07:47:35 yes, sorry 07:48:11 yakov [~yzaytsev@183.49.62.92.nienschanz.ru] has joined #lisp 07:52:04 Good morning everyone! 07:52:14 hi 07:53:33 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-26-129.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:53:56 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756f4c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:55:22 dys [~andreas@krlh-5f734f92.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:58:39 pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.196.151] has joined #lisp 07:59:02 tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:02:00 splittist [~John@56-102.62-81.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 08:02:03 morning 08:06:37 wvdschel [~wim@mansamusa.elis.UGent.be] has joined #lisp 08:07:08 hi 08:11:45 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has joined #lisp 08:11:48 cmpitg [~cmpitg@118.71.132.157] has joined #lisp 08:14:40 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:16:01 -!- dfox 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has joined #lisp 08:40:47 The_Jon_Smith [~The_Jon_S@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 08:42:15 p_l|web [8b85070b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.139.133.7.11] has joined #lisp 08:43:58 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441568.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:47:00 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@118.71.132.157] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:47:28 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-230-225.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 08:47:29 -!- yakov [~yzaytsev@183.49.62.92.nienschanz.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:49:27 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279442446.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 08:50:34 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:51:45 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-22-82-249-117-216.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 08:57:34 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has joined #lisp 08:58:40 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@119.57.31.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:03:13 yakov [~yzaytsev@183.49.62.92.nienschanz.ru] has joined #lisp 09:07:15 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-93-173.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:07:26 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 09:09:36 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-176-185.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:10:18 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn1-114.vpn.helsinki.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:12:29 billitch [~billitch@host.154.243.23.62.rev.coltfrance.com] has joined #lisp 09:18:38 -!- Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:18:49 -!- execve [~execve@ppp-81-25-57-185.ultranet.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:18:51 -!- jso [~user@ip68-111-169-131.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:22:47 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:23:39 good morning 09:24:28 morning 09:27:50 -!- Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:28:08 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 09:31:13 kiuma [~kiuma@212.66.226.129] has joined #lisp 09:35:42 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-169-124.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 09:38:51 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B80F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:43:41 freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn1-114.vpn.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 09:44:18 Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 09:46:33 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:48:14 xan__ [~xan@i58-89-92-134.s02.a027.ap.plala.or.jp] has joined #lisp 09:52:17 sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.162.242] has joined #lisp 10:02:12 if I have a list of lists and I want to merge all inside lists into a single list, how I can do that efficiently ? 10:03:07 kushal: google for "lisp list flatten", it should give you a variety of solutions 10:03:22 p_l|web, ok ,checking 10:04:04 sunwukong [~vukung@business-80-99-161-225.business.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 10:05:51 kushal: (apply #'append list-of-lists)? 10:06:09 apply, no-no! 10:06:20 no-no? 10:06:26 yes-yes! 10:06:35 wat-wat 10:06:49 clhs c-a-l 10:06:49 CALL-ARGUMENTS-LIMIT: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_call_a.htm 10:06:55 oh. 10:07:03 gogo reduce 10:07:07 ^ 10:07:09 yes 10:07:14 (reduce #'append list-of-lists) 10:07:23 gogo On^2 10:07:30 pjb [~t@60.Red-80-34-44.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:07:41 yeah that's bad 10:07:55 jdz: my original response would've been "don't have such problem in the first place" 10:08:11 -!- pjb is now known as ogamita 10:08:14 an explicit recursive solution is trivial enough though 10:08:21 but then, there's nconc 10:08:36 well, the real flatten is trivial, yes 10:09:26 jdz: why gogo On^2? 10:09:47 does reduce sucks so badly? 10:09:47 Muld [~wr23@102.168.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 10:09:54 no, append does 10:09:58 oh 10:10:08 that's bad... 10:10:08 kuwabara [~kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.fr] has joined #lisp 10:10:12 no, it's not 10:10:51 it's "use the right datastructures for the right purposes" 10:11:26 and rather not just append, but append on lists 10:11:38 like? 10:11:53 though, a SSC could optimize (reduce #'append list-of-lists) 10:11:57 Blkt: like what? 10:12:31 what do you mean with append on lists? 10:12:54 the operation of appending linked lists 10:13:53 I'm sorry, I don't get where's the difference 10:14:14 difference between what? 10:14:21 i was only talking about one thing 10:14:22 and rather not just append, but append on lists 10:14:44 Blkt: append is O(n) with n = (reduce '+ (butlast lists) :key 'length) 10:14:48 I would think (reduce #'append list-of-lists :from-end t) would be better. 10:16:05 That would reduce the constant, but not the algorithmic complexity, if I'm not wrong. 10:16:09 Blkt: let's rephrase: and rather not just APPEND, but append on lists 10:16:21 -!- ost` [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:16:25 I think it would make it linear. 10:16:36 spiaggia: don't think so. 10:16:41 Why? 10:16:46 why would it? 10:17:08 Ralith: Because each list would only be traversed and copied once. 10:17:18 Notice that append doesn't copy its last argument. 10:17:28 but then the order of items is all wrong 10:17:32 spiaggia: it's n^2 because of repeated calls to append on the accumulator. 10:17:43 or not 10:18:01 yates [~yates@nc-76-3-105-199.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 10:18:03 Ralith: But the accumulated list becomes the second argument of append, which is not copied as I said above. 10:18:37 isn't the cliki missing something? 10:18:43 spiaggia: oh, it changes the argument? 10:18:45 okay. 10:18:52 Ralith: "changes"? 10:18:52 sql/database interfaces, e.g., clsql 10:19:03 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@stu307.queens.ox.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:19:35 minion: clsql? 10:19:36 clsql: CLSQL is a Database interface Library for Common Lisp that can access a number of different SQL database engines. http://www.cliki.net/clsql 10:19:48 naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has joined #lisp 10:20:09 Ralith: (reduce #append '( ) :from-end t means (append (append (append )))) 10:21:07 yeah 10:21:11 what if or are larger than appended and ? 10:21:49 stassats: has no relevance to algorithmic complexity 10:22:08 really? 10:22:14 afaict. 10:22:56 stassats: You traverse each list (except the last one) exactly once. It is thus linear in the sum of the lengths of the lists (except the last one) 10:22:58 stassats: right. i see it now - i was on the "web" sub-page - it is there under the "current recommended libraries" subpage 10:23:49 spiaggia: that's because append traverses only the first list? 10:24:10 spiaggia: what if traversing all list several times is cheaper than traversing the first list? 10:24:15 Blkt: No, it traverses all its arguments except the last one. 10:24:34 stassats: How can it be? 10:24:36 I got it 10:24:42 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-169-124.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:25:09 stassats: Oh, you mean all lists *except the first one*? 10:25:26 yes 10:25:28 Sure. 10:25:52 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 10:25:52 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 10:25:52 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 10:26:39 stassats: But if you express the complexity as O(n) where n is the sum of the lengths of teh lists, then that is still true. 10:27:19 HAH! on a list of 1000 lists, each of length 1000, without :from-end takes 36s and with :from-end takes 0.06s 10:27:32 lol 10:28:21 *p_l|web* wonders if it's not related somehow to list splicing 10:29:22 i am relatively new to hard-core lisp (been tinkering with elisp and scheme for 10+ years) - is sbcl a reasonable cl to settle on? 10:29:57 yes 10:30:39 stassats: which do you use? 10:30:43 SBCL 10:30:58 and CCL, on odd days 10:31:19 well that gives credence - thanks 10:32:11 is "CCL" short for "CMUCL"? 10:32:18 yates: SBCL and CCL are frankly the best choices from open source lisps (unless you need the specific features of ECL, for example) 10:32:19 no, for Clozure CL 10:32:24 CCL = ClozureCL 10:34:31 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-25-3.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:35:38 stassats et al.: i have a vague, undisciplined notion that bringing the power of lisp to bear on web design/web application problems will result in a site with uncommonly powerful capabilities. does anyone know of a web site that is based on lisp (hutchentoot, et al.) and that illustrates such uncommonly powerful capabilities? 10:36:21 in short, can you stimulate my imagination a bit, please? 10:36:26 web applications will be as powerful as you make them to be 10:36:38 CL is just a programming language, a tool 10:37:33 ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 10:37:39 true in a sense 10:37:49 or i should say, true 10:38:10 but tools are defining bases for what can be constructed, thus crucial 10:39:32 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.33.243.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:39:57 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-169-124.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 10:41:17 are defining bases, given limited tool-user intelligence and time (i.e., limits we all have) 10:41:45 not intelligence! 10:42:02 s/intelligence/productivity/ 10:42:32 maybe i need another cup of coffee? 10:42:44 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:42:45 common web-programming languages, like Python or Ruby, are as good 10:42:52 I think CL is related to web applications as much as a screw driver is to cooking in a kitchen (no offense for the screw driver, very important tool) 10:43:08 -!- p_l|web [8b85070b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.139.133.7.11] has left #lisp 10:43:10 Blkt: and you're wrong 10:43:16 why? 10:43:30 because you are saying wrong things 10:43:32 stassats: i'm very sorry to hear you say that 10:43:37 you need at least a screwdriver to build up a kitchen 10:43:41 (re: Python/Ruby) 10:43:55 Blkt: CL is more like a universal toolbox, and you can surely pick something in there that will work for web (or cooking ;) ) 10:44:46 yates: you're sorry because there are other powerful languages? 10:44:59 koollman: I should give PCL to my girlfriend for her next birthday then 10:45:07 being smug lisp weenie is one thing, but being realistic is another 10:45:31 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:45:38 i deal in reality 10:46:12 if that's the reality, i need to investigate those languages more before spending a lot of time on lisp 10:46:59 mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has joined #lisp 10:46:59 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has quit [Changing host] 10:46:59 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 10:47:45 ehu [~ehuels@109.33.243.102] has joined #lisp 10:49:02 and it reveals an erroneous conception on my part 10:50:22 that lisp is a silver bullet? 10:51:49 essentially, yes 10:52:02 i'm just reading this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Silver_Bullet 10:52:10 homie [91fd03c5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.145.253.3.197] has joined #lisp 10:54:10 -!- xan__ [~xan@i58-89-92-134.s02.a027.ap.plala.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:54:29 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has joined #lisp 10:54:49 -!- drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:54:51 yates: he's talking about software *development* and he is right. 10:55:04 but lifecycle doesn't end with development 10:56:14 xan__ [~xan@i58-89-93-186.s02.a027.ap.plala.or.jp] has joined #lisp 10:56:19 what can be "reduced" in the for loop here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essential_complexity 10:56:20 ? 10:57:02 that doesn't look like lisp, so it's off-topic 10:58:19 are such constraints really productive? 10:58:54 there is ##c channel 10:59:40 stassats: consider it pseudocode 10:59:58 yates: that's a wiki -- go rewrite the loop in Lisp and ask again 11:00:57 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.162.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:03:01 fwiw, i think that sort of policy is counter-productive. of course you don't want the channel cluttered with mindless off-topic, but this doesn't fall into that category, imo. 11:04:05 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-25-3.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:04:28 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-25-3.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 11:06:48 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.33.243.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:07:11 sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.162.242] has joined #lisp 11:09:45 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.162.242] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:12:44 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 11:15:05 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:15:29 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:15:39 ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 11:16:30 ehu [~ehuels@109.33.243.102] has joined #lisp 11:16:48 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:18:49 rtoym [~chatzilla@user-0c99ag2.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 11:19:36 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-25-3.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:20:17 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 11:25:48 -!- homie [91fd03c5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.145.253.3.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:28:28 -!- nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:31:19 urandom__ [~user@p548A4D5C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:31:31 execve [~execve@ppp-81-25-57-185.ultranet.ru] has joined #lisp 11:32:22 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-169-124.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:33:11 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 11:36:29 -!- yates is now known as [yates] 11:37:44 -!- [yates] is now known as yates 11:40:34 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-zgskvbzoriglhdkm] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:41:13 -!- antivigilante [~antivigil@174-26-77-77.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:45:22 nipra [~nipra@115.240.87.210] has joined #lisp 11:46:17 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-169-124.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 11:48:20 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:48:48 naryl: so how does that relate to lisp? 11:49:43 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:49:49 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@65.242.219.13] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:50:35 -!- nipra [~nipra@115.240.87.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:52:36 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:54:18 -!- hlavaty [~user@77-22-104-162-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:55:57 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:59:52 -!- yates [~yates@nc-76-3-105-199.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.1] 12:00:06 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-tanxbtwtebfgnyjb] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:00:34 nyef [~nyef@pool-70-20-50-210.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 12:03:04 -!- humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:05:16 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-70-20-50-210.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:05:35 nyef [~nyef@pool-70-20-50-210.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 12:05:36 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:05:42 sabalaba [~sabalaba@123.113.96.32] has joined #lisp 12:07:29 nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 12:10:17 -!- c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:14:41 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@123.113.96.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:16:19 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 12:16:23 -!- xan__ [~xan@i58-89-93-186.s02.a027.ap.plala.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:18:27 xan__ [~xan@i125-201-129-165.s02.a027.ap.plala.or.jp] has joined #lisp 12:25:24 gadek [~konrad@wifi-wpa.agh.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 12:26:15 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:27:31 sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has joined #lisp 12:31:29 how sbcl benefits from a multicore CPU ? 12:31:39 or lisp in general ? 12:32:05 Running threads on different cores. 12:38:05 -!- gadek [~konrad@wifi-wpa.agh.edu.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:39:30 dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 12:42:11 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@212.66.226.129] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 12:56:48 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-70-20-50-210.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:57:13 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:58:53 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.54.189] has joined #lisp 12:59:13 -!- TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@124-171-196-2.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:59:13 gadek [~konrad@wifi-wpa.agh.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 13:00:49 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:01:23 nyef [~nyef@pool-70-20-50-210.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 13:03:54 vinnana [~pkensche@cmbipc58.cmbi.umcn.nl] has joined #lisp 13:05:22 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has joined #lisp 13:06:19 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:08:53 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn1-114.vpn.helsinki.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:09:37 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@12.53.193.163] has joined #lisp 13:10:03 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:10:47 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #lisp 13:12:36 freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn1-114.vpn.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 13:15:44 Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 13:16:45 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@12.53.193.163] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:17:03 TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@124-171-196-2.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 13:20:19 -!- reb [~user@nat/google/x-ashpkwhaqcigyblq] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:20:31 jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-7-68-199.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:21:08 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-116-107.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 13:21:29 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 13:23:55 sabalaba [~sabalaba@123.113.96.32] has joined #lisp 13:24:59 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:30:11 brown [~user@nat/google/x-tuebdzwgtplmrhoe] has joined #lisp 13:30:20 -!- brown is now known as reb 13:30:35 katesmith_ [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 13:32:26 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:35:13 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:36:23 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:36:57 is there a best practice about printing class instances in a readable way for both humans and machine? 13:38:25 clhs make-load-form-saving-slots 13:38:26 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_mk_l_1.htm 13:39:29 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:41:02 wow, that's a really cool thing. 13:43:19 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 13:47:08 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:47:12 stassats: could you please provide a trivial example of its use? 13:49:25 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-47-182.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 13:51:25 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-26-55.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:51:29 Blkt: http://www.pentaside.org/paper/persistence-lemmens.txt 13:52:46 that is awesome 13:52:56 thanks stassats! 13:53:47 looks like his precursor to rucksack 13:53:54 rucksack even shares some of that code 13:54:15 http://weitz.de/eclm2006/rucksack-eclm2006.txt is a good read if you're into persistence 13:54:50 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:55:16 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 13:59:43 -!- froydnj [~froydnj@gateway.codesourcery.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:59:43 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-230-225.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:00:16 -!- gadek [~konrad@wifi-wpa.agh.edu.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:00:26 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-230-225.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:01:02 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 14:02:57 -!- billitch [~billitch@host.154.243.23.62.rev.coltfrance.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:03:06 billitch [~billitch@host.154.243.23.62.rev.coltfrance.com] has joined #lisp 14:03:38 -!- katesmith_ [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:05:12 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 14:05:44 -!- kushal is now known as drunkencoder 14:06:30 -!- dys [~andreas@krlh-5f734f92.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:09:59 sepi [~sepiultru@hcl-club.lu] has joined #lisp 14:10:27 How does (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op ...) relate to (require ..) ? 14:11:10 sepi: some implementations have asdf hooks 14:11:17 -!- xinming [~hyy@122.238.76.217] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:11:23 sepi: in some implementations, cl:require's behavior can be customized, and some of them customize it by making (require 'foo) be another way to say (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op 'foo), approximately. 14:11:40 what Xach said 14:12:46 note that in modern asdf there's (asdf:load-system ...) 14:14:37 kclifton [~kclifton@s198-166-45-245.ab.hsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 14:15:54 sepi: and the slime shortcuts 14:16:01 xinming [~hyy@115.221.9.30] has joined #lisp 14:16:08 tfb [~tfb@94.197.33.149.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:17:54 -!- sunwukong [~vukung@business-80-99-161-225.business.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: bye] 14:20:04 ok, so when writing portable code, should I rather use the asdf:load-system function ? 14:21:02 why would you manually load asdf systems in portable code? 14:21:31 redline6561 [~redline@gate-20.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 14:21:42 dunno, I'm quite a newbie in programming larger stuff in cl 14:21:55 should I rather define an asdf system? 14:22:06 sepi: yep 14:22:07 yes 14:22:12 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:22:22 so asdf will then load my dependencies? 14:22:53 -!- ddevaal [~ddevaal@bogomips.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:23:51 housel [~user@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 14:23:57 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-169-124.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:24:14 In my .sbclrc I want to load linedit, so I now use (asdf:load-system 'linedit) (linedit:install-repl) is that how it is intended to be used? 14:24:29 at least it works :) 14:25:14 -!- execve [~execve@ppp-81-25-57-185.ultranet.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:25:48 allthough the system loading takes quite some time, but that could be alleviated by dropping an image that allready has the systems loaded I guess 14:26:06 execve [~execve@ppp-81-25-57-185.ultranet.ru] has joined #lisp 14:26:21 Btw, is it possible to use allegro-graph in other impl. than allegro? 14:26:23 I need few things to read and understand so that I can pitch Lisp as an language for project to the management , can anyone point me to few such links which I can read ? 14:26:35 ddevaal [~ddevaal@bogomips.nl] has joined #lisp 14:26:47 sepi: I don't think so. 14:27:03 Xach: hmm, that's really unfortunate... 14:27:05 drunkencoder: http://www.paulgraham.com/road.html 14:27:10 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 14:27:15 sepi: Why? 14:27:20 Xach, except his articles ? 14:27:45 I'd rather not like to use too many closed components in my project 14:28:28 sepi: ok. nobody has done that much work and given it away as a similar project. 14:28:54 milanj [~milanj_@93-86-213-224.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 14:29:55 Xach: you mean making allegro graph available to other implementations would be stupid? 14:30:29 sepi: i'm curious, what are you planning to use allegro-graph for? 14:30:37 *stassats* is trying to understand what is allegro-graph 14:31:13 sepi: No. I mean it sounds like it would require expertise that some might consider worth paying for. 14:32:26 stassats: http://hcl-club.lu/~enigma/project-4891.html 14:33:21 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:33:24 stassats: it's a very long term project, I currently don't know a lot about semantic web technologies, but I'd like to play around with a triple store and begin implementing a small genealogy webapp with it 14:33:37 Xach, stassats btw, the thing I was planning to write for the last 8 days, is almost ready for 1st round of PoC :D 14:33:46 sepi: well, you have time till 4891 14:33:58 I just fall in love with lisp :) 14:33:59 stassats: hehe 14:34:24 gadek [~konrad@wifi-wpa.agh.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 14:34:27 stassats: allegro graph is a triple store :) 14:34:57 triple stores are usually associated with semantic web, but there's nothing inherent about semantic web in triple stores 14:35:03 it's just a graph 14:35:08 source, link, destination 14:35:09 jdz: well, i see that, but that sounds "it's a buzzword for buzzwords" 14:35:10 that's a triple 14:35:18 that sounds to me 14:35:19 stassats: yeah, that's semantic web for you 14:35:59 in short, triple store is a way to store and query a graph 14:36:53 and since one can pretty much store any data as a graph, it's pretty universal 14:37:02 Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:37:09 with the associated pros and cons 14:37:13 such kind of things is actually lie in my area of interest, so i should investigate it more thoroughly 14:37:51 stassats: which point exactly is a lie for you? 14:38:25 Xach: psst. You should add nikodemus' ANSI-fied screamer to quicklisp. :D 14:38:29 s/is// 14:38:42 redline6561: not just ansi-fied, asdf-ified too at my recent request! 14:38:44 *Xach* adds it 14:38:51 stassats: oh, that one changes semantics of the sentence :) 14:39:18 -!- wvdschel [~wim@mansamusa.elis.UGent.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:39:32 stassats: http://www.markwatson.com/opencontent/ 14:39:44 stassats: he has an open book on allegrograph 14:39:48 sepi: you don't actually have to use a triple store implemented in lisp 14:39:49 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-26-129.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:40:11 sepi: triple stores have ways to access them using HTTP or other protocols 14:40:25 though i'm not interested in a semantic web, just in a large dataset of interconnected information 14:40:26 -!- ddevaal [~ddevaal@bogomips.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:40:27 sepi: that way people could use triple store of their choice of your system 14:40:32 s/of/with 14:40:56 sepi: even allegro graph supports those interfaces 14:41:15 i mean, not even, but also 14:41:58 i currently store my date in a home brewed persistence thingy 14:42:06 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 14:42:46 ddevaal [~ddevaal@bogomips.nl] has joined #lisp 14:44:19 jdz: yeah, you're right, but doesn't allegrograph have a simpler api if you use it without the http interface 14:44:25 stassats: wikipedia entry on "triple store" should get you started :) 14:44:37 again, I don't know a lot about allegro graph 14:44:47 sepi: yes, it has the prology querying thingie 14:44:55 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 14:45:29 jdz: it would be nice to have a generic rdf inteface that could use different triple stores over http 14:46:15 sepi: so just go on and create such an interface 14:49:17 sepi: and, btw, "rdf interface" does not make much sense (as a concept) 14:51:01 -!- gadek [~konrad@wifi-wpa.agh.edu.pl] has quit [Quit: zajecia] 14:54:01 jdz: well I mean some kind of mapping between the native object model and the db object model, if that makes sens 14:54:04 e 14:54:08 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn1-114.vpn.helsinki.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:56:00 sepi: depending on what you want to do, it could be sufficient to use just a class TRIPLE 14:57:19 stassats: congratulation you invented B4B after B2B... 14:57:30 freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn1-114.vpn.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 14:57:37 ogamita: sounds like a section in the personals 14:57:51 In fact, B2B is often plagued by B4B. 15:01:17 what are B2B and B4B? 15:01:58 B4B = Buzzword for Buzzword. B2B = Business to Business. 15:01:58 B2B is business-to-business, so presumably B4B is b-for-b 15:02:13 beans for breakfast! 15:02:26 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:02:38 -!- sytse [~sytse@2001:888:1817:0:226:18ff:fe65:ac7b] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:03:22 wvdschel [~wim@mansamusa.elis.UGent.be] has joined #lisp 15:05:02 -!- redline6561 [~redline@gate-20.spsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:07:46 -!- tfb [~tfb@94.197.33.149.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:08:40 tfb [~tfb@92.41.40.177.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:09:05 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn1-114.vpn.helsinki.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:10:18 tcr1 [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 15:10:18 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:10:19 -!- Joreji [~thomas@82-006.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:10:55 Weblocks is not developed very actively, does this mean it is stable and usable or rather that it's abandoned? 15:11:31 Usually means one or the other, yes. 15:11:32 sepi: I have the impression that its development is pretty active. 15:11:38 sepi: What suggests to you that it is inactive? 15:12:02 http://groups.google.com/group/weblocks for example gets messages pretty frequently 15:12:04 Or that the developers moved, and didn't leave a forwarding address. 15:14:03 Xach: ohh, I didn't look into the dev repo :) 15:14:05 sry 15:14:40 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@123.113.96.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:14:47 seems quite active :) 15:15:06 I looked at the stable repo 15:15:45 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 15:16:47 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 15:17:56 -!- wvdschel [~wim@mansamusa.elis.UGent.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:20:27 tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 15:20:28 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:21:44 Pavitra [~pavitra@76-76-236-67.lisco.net] has joined #lisp 15:23:46 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279442446.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: hugod] 15:24:04 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has joined #lisp 15:24:56 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:25:27 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 15:26:18 wuj [~wuj@pool-74-108-204-117.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:27:43 Bronsa [~bronsa@host212-177-dynamic.10-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:28:39 wedgeV [~wedge@cpe-24-193-117-17.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:29:40 morning 15:29:49 redline6561 [~redline@gate-20.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 15:29:53 Hello slyrus_. 15:31:39 sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has joined #lisp 15:32:21 tsuru [~charlie@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:32:36 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:33:03 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:33:14 sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has joined #lisp 15:33:37 tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 15:33:54 daniel___ [~daniel@p5082ABE8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:53 -!- ogamita [~t@60.Red-80-34-44.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:36:34 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:37:01 -!- daniel [~daniel@p50829FEE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:39:44 kslt1 [~Sierka1@netblock-208-127-156-74.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 15:40:04 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 15:42:17 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756f4c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:43:00 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756f4c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:43:03 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has joined #lisp 15:45:33 -!- pierrep [~ppasteau@bas1-montreal43-2925254816.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:46:26 -!- lclark [~user@ip70-181-163-100.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:47:24 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 15:49:11 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 15:49:39 -!- fmu [UNKNOWN@unaffiliated/fmu] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 15:49:45 fmu [UNKNOWN@unaffiliated/fmu] has joined #lisp 15:52:50 -!- yakov [~yzaytsev@183.49.62.92.nienschanz.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:55:07 deego [~user@74.255.63.136] has joined #lisp 15:55:39 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:55:43 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:56:01 I'm trying clbuild: clbuild install clx works. Then, when I try to clbuild recompile clx, it errors out: component "clx" not found 15:56:04 -!- nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:56:09 (with sbcl) 15:56:18 -!- redline6561 [~redline@gate-20.spsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:57:15 Hrm... On the one hand, CLX, therefore interesting. On the other hand, clbuild, therefore not interesting. 15:57:48 Mostly clbuild. Sorry, can't help you. 15:59:10 Should I be using something else? I gathered (last year when I came here) that clbuild is the canonical way .. 15:59:12 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.106.168] has joined #lisp 16:00:36 -!- ij is now known as sie 16:00:43 deego: i did a survey and was surprised to see that both asdf-install and managing libraries by hand are more popular among the responders than clbuild 16:01:06 deego: i surveyed people who read planet lisp, comp.lang.lisp, lisp-hug, lisp.reddit.com, and a few other places. 16:01:24 I see, thx Xach 16:01:26 postamar [~postamar@x-132-204-255-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 16:01:42 now, "more popular" doesn't mean "better" or "best" 16:02:16 Means "for the general person, least perceived pain amongst options they're aware of". 16:02:59 or that they're used to it 16:03:39 Which falls under "perceived pain". 16:03:48 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:04:44 maybe they already have gone through the pain stage and don't want to subject themselves to any additional possible pain sources 16:05:30 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:05:54 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.166.150.94] has joined #lisp 16:05:57 Which falls under "perceived pain". 16:06:21 i rest my case 16:06:38 yakov [~yzaytsev@183.49.62.92.nienschanz.ru] has joined #lisp 16:08:03 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@cpe-24-193-117-17.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 16:09:41 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-58-242.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:10:13 -!- xan__ [~xan@i125-201-129-165.s02.a027.ap.plala.or.jp] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:10:47 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.166.150.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:11:14 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.54.189] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:11:36 Ah, After redoing things from scratch (clbuild mrproper), the problem vanished, somehow. 16:11:37 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has joined #lisp 16:12:25 lichtblau: have you ever tried plexippus on ABCL? 16:12:57 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 16:12:58 slyrus_: no, even though it'd be the easiest lisp to port to from the floating point ops perspective 16:13:23 deego: I don't think many people are using "clbuild recompile". 16:14:14 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-16-74.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:14:19 lichtblau: I see 16:14:31 (I was following the examples mentioned here: http://common-lisp.net/project/clbuild/ ) 16:15:16 kslt1` [~user@netblock-208-127-156-74.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 16:16:04 Hm. How (else) do you compile a project, after "update-ing" or "install"ing it? 16:16:12 btw, I didn't check whether CLISP devs changed their mind concerning IEEE 754 floating point handling 16:16:16 I use clbuild because it is good at downloading stuff from version control, and can start slime for me. Most other features (ASDF invocation, i.e. "recompile") are completely unimportant to me. 16:16:36 deego: using ASDF:LOAD-SYSTEM or ASDF:OPERATE 16:16:54 I'm seeing some sort of type issue down in cl-yacc/make-kernel. not sure if it's a general cl-yacc problem or something triggered by plex. 16:17:04 time to go to work though. i'll check on it tonight. 16:17:21 If you don't care about version control, or about starting slime, then quicklisp will be more in line with your requirements than clbuild IMHO. 16:17:27 lichtblau: i.e., using asdf:operate within the sbcl started with "clbuild sbcl"? 16:17:34 slyrus_: didn't ehu just patch that? 16:18:23 or was that something else: any cl-yacc users here ? I fixed an issue with it (in ABCL) yesterday; could you test the combination please? 16:18:24 deego: I use my own code, github.com/brown/slurp to grab the latest copies of code off the web. 16:18:46 deego: ASDF handles recompiling or compiling. 16:18:53 slyrus_: btw, recent ccl trunk fails badly on plexippus / cl-yacc due to defstruct edge cases and bad type checks in the compiler 16:19:09 -!- pdo` [~pdo@217.33.254.141] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:19:22 -!- rootzlevel [~hpd@91-66-216-220-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:19:24 Thx, reb, lichtblau 16:19:44 slyrus_: (not sure whether this is related, but cl-yacc uses a lot of defstruct inheritance and stuff like that) 16:20:29 lichtblau: could very well be that this is indeed that issue. 16:20:46 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:20:50 slyrus_: the issue which was fixed is related to structure inheritance and conc-name. 16:20:57 so, is your abcl new enough? 16:21:10 oic... will check tonight. thanks! 16:21:10 (as in trunk from this week) 16:21:32 no, it's from last week. 16:21:41 that's too old :-) 16:24:02 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-87-127.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:24:37 -!- naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:27:02 -!- archangelpetro [~archangel@cpc2-oxfd19-2-0-cust1010.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:27:18 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:27:54 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-58-28-211.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:30:58 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:30:58 -!- postamar [~postamar@x-132-204-255-254.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [Quit: postamar] 16:32:27 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 16:32:41 -!- tfb [~tfb@92.41.40.177.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has quit [Quit: tfb] 16:32:56 postamar [~postamar@x-132-204-242-100.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 16:32:58 -!- postamar [~postamar@x-132-204-242-100.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 16:34:46 tmh [~user@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 16:34:53 Greetings lispers. 16:36:14 Guthur [~Guthur@cpc1-belf4-0-0-cust889.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 16:36:23 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-58-28-211.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:37:43 naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has joined #lisp 16:39:37 -!- varjag is now known as varjagg 16:40:37 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-96-105.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:41:11 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:43:16 jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-158.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:43:17 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-96-105.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:44:01 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B80F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:45:08 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B80F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:46:07 _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 16:46:19 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:55:56 Sebastian_Sturm [~Adium@wlan0215.rz.uni-leipzig.de] has joined #lisp 16:55:56 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:56:07 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:57:05 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has joined #lisp 16:58:05 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.33.243.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:58:31 coyo|pingout [~coyotama@pool-71-164-234-131.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:00:12 -!- bandu [~coyotama@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:00:58 I had a question last week concerning gsll. Tried sending it to gsll-devel@common-lisp.net, but it doesn't seem to find its way to the mailing list. How can I reach the list? 17:01:45 Sebastian_Sturm: you need to subscribe, presumably 17:02:10 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:02:15 hi fe[nl]ix 17:02:21 hi Blkt 17:03:53 sorry, didn't mention that. I have subscribed to gsll-devel prior to sending the email 17:05:28 MagBo [~Sweater@87.246.131.149] has joined #lisp 17:05:28 Fare: asdf 2.133 worked well for me 17:06:29 and 134? 17:06:44 stassats, you beat me to that question :-) 17:06:55 it should only affect ECL, though. 17:06:59 Xach, do you test on ECL? 17:08:05 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-146-208.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:47 -!- MagBo is now known as Tosh[Mnk][Drd] 17:09:10 noob question: are structs more efficient than classes in Common Lisp? 17:09:46 <_3b> they might be, test on your implementation of choice if it matters 17:09:58 what are the main reasons? 17:10:18 Generally, they're expected to be, but they're also /lame/: No redefinition semantics, for starters. 17:10:31 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-116-107.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:10:33 I see 17:10:44 You can get typechecking on slot values, though. 17:10:52 And unboxed storage in some cases. 17:10:56 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-93-173.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:11:03 for classes you mean? 17:11:20 For structs. 17:11:31 It's a lot harder to get the same for classes. 17:11:43 thanks 17:11:49 (As in, "most implementations don't bother" kind of harder.) 17:12:07 as in CLOS semantics actively oppose it, kind of hard 17:12:22 The general advice is to use classes until and unless you can prove that structs are a better fit for your application, and even then think twice. 17:12:38 I get it, thank you 17:12:42 rfg [~rfg@client-86-25-218-131.glw-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:02 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-169-124.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 17:13:30 note that good implementations can use classes with (:metaclass structure-class) or some such 17:13:46 what's that? 17:13:56 giving you any performance advantage of structures while allowing you to move to a class easily when you need it. 17:14:02 Do they then gain redefinition semantics, or are they structs created with defclass? 17:14:25 they can gain redefinition semantics in a one line change. 17:14:54 not the best, but better than nothing. 17:14:55 So... structs created with defclass it is? 17:15:02 yup, iiuc 17:15:09 Fare: I do not test on ECL 17:15:20 what is this :metaclass stuff? is it standard CL? 17:15:25 Fare: which "good implementations" ? 17:15:25 though... I'm known to jump to conclusions. 17:16:04 Blkt: yes 17:16:22 fe[nl]ix, at least SBCL. 17:16:37 fe[nl]ix: SBCL, clearly! (I've seen the struct stuff in SBCL's PCL.) 17:17:18 fairly recent sbcl, mind. i think there were bugs in that are <1y ao 17:17:22 ago, even 17:17:35 area, even 17:17:44 me type god can 17:18:05 nikodemus, have you actually used screamer? What did you think? 17:18:34 I noticed that it didn't support flet or labels 17:18:42 Fare: no, i just liberated it -- the one in my repo is under MIT license 17:18:58 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:19:07 i've played around with it, but haven't used it in anger 17:19:11 nikodemus, could you get a liberation notice from Qobi? 17:19:18 "in anger" ? 17:19:29 Fare: in the tree and git 17:19:41 nice. What's Qobi doing, these days? 17:19:47 in anger = for something approximately real 17:19:59 as opposed to, mmm.. i wonder what this does? 17:20:21 Fare: no idea. i just sent him email asking if distributing it under MIT is ok. 17:21:25 because i didn't want to play with the relese version with its silly "send email to list which no longer exists"-licence, and i misliked the GPL stuck on the other copy somewhere else 17:21:38 I was writing a parser, then backtracking to writing an LL_omega infrastructure, the backtracking to some good continuation / backtracking infrastructure. 17:21:49 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-32-122-74.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:22:06 then wondering - hey, does Screamer do the trick? 17:22:33 Xach: 2.134 shouldn't make any difference outside ECL. 17:22:45 So I'll promote it as 2.009. 17:23:11 Fare: it seems quite clever about a number of constraints from what i've seen so far 17:23:26 -!- yakov [~yzaytsev@183.49.62.92.nienschanz.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:24:36 did I ever push 2.134? 17:25:31 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 17:27:03 i have it here 17:27:35 gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.228.198] has joined #lisp 17:28:04 hi, if I (load "foo.lisp") containing (in-package :foo) is there any way to stay in package FOO instead of returning to the package I was in before loading "foo.lisp"? 17:28:30 egn: No. 17:28:39 Xach: thanks 17:28:48 egn: LOAD is specified to create a new dynamic binding of *PACKAGE* for the duration of loading. 17:29:15 Xach: makes sense 17:29:19 thanks 17:29:49 egn: (defun load-with-foo (name) (load name) (setf *package* (find-package "FOO"))) 17:30:06 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 17:30:39 loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:48 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-58-28-211.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:52 dlowe: ah, that'll work for now. thanks 17:30:57 *nyef* would have something that grovels up the binding stack to find the "right" binding of *package* and just change out the value stored there... 17:31:29 that's not a one-liner :) 17:32:29 *Fare* pushes asdf 2.009 to the official repo 17:32:50 *Fare* invites implementers to update their implementations. 17:33:41 -!- billitch [~billitch@host.154.243.23.62.rev.coltfrance.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:34:23 -!- splittist [~John@56-102.62-81.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.1] 17:36:31 *Fare* was writing this support for dynamic bindings in a CPS engine, and realizes bindings are not quite restored right in presence of a non-local exit. 17:38:17 Fare: you should be using dynamic-wind and (capture-dynamic-environment) from ContextL! 17:38:34 (that's how i do dynamic closures with continuations) 17:38:59 What's will all that poll-o-mania lately? 17:39:12 drewc, or maybe I should just use your continuation code. -- Is it available? 17:39:23 tcr: everyone is getting ready to do some targeted marketing at ILC 17:39:33 ah 17:40:23 tcr: Do you like our polls (a) not (b) not at all (c) GAAAAAAHHHHHH! (d) (e) all of the above. 17:40:43 (f) where is my privacy? 17:40:50 Fare: not in a usable form as such... i just started into yet-another-rewrite, this time using interface passing style for the monads 17:41:05 (which i just love!) 17:41:06 ips for the monads? I want to see that. 17:41:25 ok, i'll paste some examples 17:41:28 lisppaste: url? 17:41:32 it feels quite natural to have ips for monads, so you can have monad-parametered code 17:41:42 minion: lisppaste? 17:41:51 lisppaste can't talk 17:42:01 *drewc* would complain about the bots, but he might be the one who 17:42:10 ... is supposed to fix them. 17:42:26 well, i think that's because it has no right to speak in this channel 17:43:05 discrimination and such 17:44:15 equal rights for bots! Poor oppressed things working as slaves for no compensation! 17:45:04 Fare: http://paste.lisp.org/display/115277 <--- identity, state and cont monads, and the start of the state transformer (i'm doing paramaterised monads today starting with StateM and next ContM 17:45:16 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756f4c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:45:22 and a nice syntax for mlet* that i think we can all agree on 17:45:51 result? Isn't lift a shorter term for the same thing? Imagine the bits you'd save with a shorter name. 17:45:57 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-58-28-211.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:46:04 -!- Sebastian_Sturm [~Adium@wlan0215.rz.uni-leipzig.de] has left #lisp 17:46:07 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-58-28-211.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:46:59 -!- lnostdal [~quassel@167.80-203-136.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 17:48:21 'lift' is sematically overloaded in discussions of monads. I much prefer 'return', but it's taken, and my favorite paper on monads uses 'result', so i'm used to it 17:48:24 drewc: lisppaste can't talk because it was getting used to spam channels. 17:48:43 nyef: ah, that's makes sense. 17:48:45 drewc: Other than that, some of us keep an eye on them. 17:48:46 lnostdal [~quassel@167.80-203-136.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 17:48:46 which is your favorite paper on monads? 17:49:15 I suppose if you added authorization... 17:49:25 Fare: Monadic Parser Combinators [Hutton and Meijer 96] 17:49:28 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 17:49:42 nyef: lisppaste seems to be talking in #sbcl 17:49:52 or am i imagining? 17:49:56 Fare: i've translated about 1/2 of it to CL -> http://common-lisp.net/~dcrampsie/smug.html 17:50:14 stassats: You'll notice that what happens is that someone makes a paste, and then asks minion about it by number. 17:50:14 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 17:50:19 my current experiments with IPS monads are for translating the second hald 17:50:21 half 17:50:40 I was looking for something similar, but with a different monad, that does depth first and backtracking instead. 17:51:06 -!- daniel___ is now known as daniel 17:51:20 IPS monads are probably the shit. 17:51:36 so far, the best way to do monads in CL that i've found 17:51:51 that's how haskell does it under the hood. 17:51:52 nyef: http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/sbcl/2010-10/sbcl-2010.10.05.txt search for lisppaste 17:52:02 CL just forces you do it without a hood. 17:52:26 Hunh. Neat. 17:52:28 i tried using packages as monads, and it worked well enough, but paramaterized monads were difficult and it was a little too static-y for lisp 17:54:12 Fare: i find it somewhat ironic that it's the dynamically typed language that, in this case, forces you to annotate the type for each monadic expression :) 17:54:50 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:57:20 -!- TomJ [~tomj@89.241.144.236] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:57:49 isn't that what dynamically typed means? That you have to carry types at runtime... 17:58:19 TomJ [~tomj@89.241.144.236] has joined #lisp 17:59:06 Fare: i considered an approach based on funcallable-instances and dispatching on those 18:00:12 then i realized i had started hindley-milner-spunning 18:00:17 (funcall foo.bar x y) isn't easier to type than (bar foo x y) 18:00:47 maybe you should join the Qi team 18:01:19 *Kovensky* never understood monads 18:01:44 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:01:49 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-169-124.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:01:49 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@catv-89-133-169-124.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 18:01:49 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 18:02:17 -!- drunkencoder [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:02:24 it's never too late 18:02:26 Kovensky: http://common-lisp.net/~dcrampsie/smug.html is meant as (the start of) a complete introduction to monads for lisers 18:02:27 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:02:29 lispers 18:02:49 *stassats* has somewhere "monads for schemers", unread 18:03:16 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 18:03:18 Kovensky: the paper it's based on, mentioned in the text, is a complete introduction to monads for functional language users, and it pretty easy to read if you can get through the syntax 18:03:19 *Kovensky* should finish his lisper course then :> 18:04:12 stassats: i think my approach of explaining monads in terms of FUNCALL and IDENTITY makes a lot of sense. 18:04:40 my mind is monad-free, so i don't really know 18:04:56 -!- deego [~user@74.255.63.136] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:05:02 *drewc* suggests thumbing through that smug.html link he keeps pimping 18:05:12 i bookmarked it 18:05:35 though, waiting till i finish and actually add examples of monads besides Parser and Identity might be of more use 18:05:35 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-230-225.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:06:25 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-230-225.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:06:27 i'm just currently trying to figure out if paramaterisation via inheritence makes sense, or if it makes more sense to include the monad interface in a slot 18:08:18 i guess once i'll tackle monads it'll turn like some of the things i already comprehend but from a different angle 18:09:22 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-169-124.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:11:46 bandu [~coyotama@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 18:12:00 (funcall #'funcall funcall) 18:13:58 Does anyone know where the asdf2 patch for zip is? I can't find it. 18:14:22 lichtblau: In my head. 18:14:32 -!- coyo|pingout [~coyotama@pool-71-164-234-131.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:15:04 Okay. What do I need to do? 18:15:21 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 18:15:26 Crawl in there with a flashlight and a Torx T8 tool... 18:15:35 *Xach* revisits zip.asd, tries to get the patch out of his head 18:16:03 Xach: is it zipped or not inside your head? 18:16:39 lichtblau: I think I'm looking at the wrong zip.asd. Is it in CVS somewhere? 18:17:00 stassats: no. uuencoded. 18:17:23 dlichteblau@common-lisp.net:/project/zip/cvsroot is what my CVS/Root says 18:17:36 adjust user name as needed 18:18:10 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93-86-213-224.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:18:32 *Xach* anonymizes 18:18:42 it's obviously fixable by using #+ more than once, but I'm assuming that there's also a direct fix 18:19:06 actually, I'm not sure what the direct fix is. 18:19:31 the #+asdf2 #-asdf2 fix is to change "acl.lisp" and "gray.lisp" to "acl" and "gray" 18:20:18 Fare: can you suggest a way to make http://paste.lisp.org/display/115282 work in asdf1 and asdf2 without #+asdf2? 18:21:21 I don't care whether zip CVS works asdf1, as long as it works with asdf2. 18:21:54 antivigilante [~antivigil@174-26-108-97.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:15 oha, restart of the lisp needed for that change to take effect 18:22:44 ok, removing the .lisp suffix works in asdf2 18:23:11 milanj [~milanj_@109-93-201-18.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 18:23:22 done. zip CVS is now quicklisp-ready. 18:24:04 *lichtblau* was foiled by a message which clearly indicated that the .asd had been reloaded, but it still didn't work. *shrug* 18:24:35 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:25:42 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-169-124.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 18:27:17 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:29:26 hmm, is there anoncvs lag for clnet? 18:29:40 must be. 18:31:02 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@12.53.193.118] has joined #lisp 18:31:17 Xach: I don't see any #+asdf2 there. 18:31:45 oh, the problem is with :pathname 18:32:04 Fare: that file works only with asdf1. I was wondering about making it work on both without conditionalizing. it turns out lichtblau is not concerned with asdf1 compatibility. 18:32:06 use :pathname #p"acl.lisp" 18:32:29 Fare: string vs pathname object is the difference? 18:32:31 seangrove [~user@c-71-198-44-87.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:32:44 yes. 18:33:12 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-242.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:33:19 In asdf2, I distinguish between the two to allow to express some things both unambiguously and portably. 18:33:26 drewc: thanks for writing that up. i think it's going to help me with some xml processing. 18:33:36 I wonder if "acl" works in asdf1 18:33:49 can you try it? 18:34:05 Not at the moment. 18:34:12 Xach: what's that.. the smg parser? 18:34:16 smug rather? 18:34:16 drewc: yes. 18:34:31 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 18:34:47 if it works in asdf1 (string without the .lisp) then it's great, and actually better. If it doesn't, then use #p"acl.lisp" 18:34:52 i'm glad you like, i wrote it up in the hopes that others would find it as excellent an approach to parsing as i do :) 18:35:48 actually, I'd personally use (:file "gray" #+allegro :pathname #+allegro #p"acl.lisp") which is more portable. 18:35:50 i have a highly optimised version as a .lisp that i plan to release, i should probably do so. 18:36:11 since you don't have to rely on #p on unidentified implementations 18:36:54 how utterly annoying it is to use 4+ &optional's in slime.el... sticking to this policy makes my brain hurt... 18:38:13 -!- Muld [~wr23@102.168.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:38:54 Seriously I don't see your pathological problems with it, given eldoc 18:39:46 eldoc does not work properly with defun* and &key, so get gripes :-) 18:40:47 drewc: I'm trying to write a generic library that works with almost all Amazon web services. They use pretty simple XML and I need to process and synthesize it. I want something really easy to write and read, something very lispy. 18:41:07 let me say "how utterly annoying elisp is" 18:41:14 i don't have eldoc set up... but i'll rape myself and use optionals in the hopes that some of these can get into upstream... 18:41:26 humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 18:41:45 *attila_lendvai* is porting their divergence into a git repo based on the boinkor one 18:41:54 Just do M-x eldoc 18:42:03 or eldoc-mode 18:42:28 tcr: thanks! i'll keep that in mind 18:42:59 i'm porting my fix now that sticks the inspector to the initiaing thread and package 18:45:03 lichtblau: hooray, thanks for the update. works nicely. 18:46:09 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279442446.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 18:46:23 Soulman [~knute@159.80-202-237.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 18:47:22 tcr: hrm. eldoc is showing me an &key arg list... seems to work on defun* (at least sometimes) 18:47:50 attila_lendvai: Last I tried it, it thinks that "&key" is a required parameter 18:48:00 ls 18:48:04 sorry 18:48:35 tcr: oh, right. i was too quick to be happy... 18:49:51 Xach: xml parsing was going to be one of my examples once i banged out the various pieces in the tutorial, just haven't gotten that far :) 18:50:32 attila_lendvai: I think the buffer-local thread concept is broken 18:51:02 attila_lendvai: It's utterly annoying that ALL requests in the slime-repl buffer are executed within the slime-repl thread 18:51:48 you do want to have buffer-local thread mapping, but only designated functions are supposed to use the buffer-local value 18:52:13 tcr: could be. i didn't spend much time thinking about it, just blingly set up a scheme where thread and package is in a lexical-let to be captured... it fixes our annoyance that inspecting persistent objects opened from the debugger runs in random threads. 18:52:28 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-58-28-211.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:52:58 persistent? 18:53:41 I thought it may be a problem for thread-allocated, or stack-allocated values (in case you can't globally access a thread's stack) 18:54:17 tcr: hu.dwim.perec persistent objects are attached to a transaction (caching, asserts, etc...) 18:54:42 where does the currrent thread come in? 18:54:48 you hash by thread-id or something? 18:55:10 inspecting the object calls svuc, and it must happen in the enclosing with-transaction 18:55:34 oh right, evaluating needs the right dynamic contour 18:55:34 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-230-225.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:56:03 you have customized the inspector for it? 18:56:19 yes, quite a lot 18:56:36 the slime inspector divergence is the most painful... 18:56:58 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-230-225.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:01 :-) swank side you mean? 18:57:38 sure, i don't pay much attention to the slime/swank difference. slime is the project name for me... 18:57:42 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 18:57:57 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 18:58:49 but i've also added support for a custom title line on the slime side. it shows a print-object of the object (for copying the presentation to the repl) and an inspectable type reference 18:59:51 Can you paste an example? 18:59:58 -!- execve [~execve@ppp-81-25-57-185.ultranet.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:00:03 -!- loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:00:05 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@187.87.224.70] has joined #lisp 19:01:41 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw226086.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 19:01:46 it's broken currently, a bit later. but it's simply: "foo" of type (SIMPLE-ARRAY CHARACTER (3)) 19:01:47 where "foo" and the type are navigable presentations 19:03:02 attila_lendvai, should I use your or the upstream SLIME as a basis? 19:03:15 i.e. are you nicer than upstream about maintenance? 19:03:38 Fare: well, i'm certainly a whole lot more open for changes... :) 19:04:22 i'm slowly forward porting our stuff here: http://dwim.hu/gitweb/gitweb.cgi?p=slime;a=summary 19:04:25 -!- kslt1` [~user@netblock-208-127-156-74.dslextreme.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:04:56 attila_lendvai, excellent. At some point, I'll want to merge the ITA changes with some reasonable "upstream" 19:05:08 rebasing it will come at the end 19:06:07 timor [~timor@port-92-195-226-23.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 19:06:19 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host212-177-dynamic.10-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:06:40 Bronsa [~bronsa@host212-177-dynamic.10-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:07:00 Fare: i'm planning to rebase my extra patches constantly, and push -f them. so before pulling from my hu.dwim branch people will need a reset --hard... but i'm open for suggestions on how else to manage it. 19:07:56 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host212-177-dynamic.10-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 19:08:16 Bronsa [~bronsa@host212-177-dynamic.10-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:09:06 attila_lendvai, you have your own CPS transform code derived from arnesi, don't you? 19:09:13 yes 19:09:40 *Fare* wonders whether to use that for his parser or build his own monadic thingie, or what. 19:09:42 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host212-177-dynamic.10-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 19:09:56 hu.dwim.delico, it's mostly got fixes compared to arnesi 19:10:09 Bronsa [~bronsa@host212-177-dynamic.10-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:10:10 is it still an interpreter with persistable continuations? 19:10:33 it's an interpreter. i'm planning to add a closure based implementation, but it's nowhere even started... 19:10:40 do you have mirrors that are more available than the not-so-stable dwim.hu ? 19:11:28 nope. i really do hope that things will be more stable now. we switched hosting about a month ago, but seems like we brought bad luck... :/ 19:11:49 but git/darcs repos are easy to clone, so... 19:11:59 Fare: Please try upstream first please 19:12:53 and yes, as tcr says. i'm open for anything upstream rejects, but do try the Helmut filter first... :) 19:13:44 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.106.168] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:15:42 entropax [~entropi@nat/intel/x-rqttulndlwkkvygk] has joined #lisp 19:15:54 Put requests in the form of "I have a problem this-and-this because of that-and-that. What would be a good solution?" 19:16:12 entropi [~entropi@nat/intel/x-srvftmgdqbvdybsq] has joined #lisp 19:16:25 entropix [~entropi@192.55.55.39] has joined #lisp 19:16:39 -!- entropax [~entropi@nat/intel/x-rqttulndlwkkvygk] has quit [Client Quit] 19:16:44 -!- entropi [~entropi@nat/intel/x-srvftmgdqbvdybsq] has quit [Client Quit] 19:17:34 Is a Helmut filter anything like an LR-parser? 19:21:23 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-242.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:23:21 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host212-177-dynamic.10-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:25:25 ohih0wru [ohih0wru@78.84.164.42] has joined #lisp 19:27:29 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.68] has joined #lisp 19:27:45 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-242.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:29:30 Krystof [~csr21@nat79.mia.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:29:45 benny` [~benny@i577A838A.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:30:40 -!- dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:30:54 -!- benny [~benny@i577A3110.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:31:02 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:32:30 coyo|pingout [~coyotama@pool-71-164-234-131.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:33:09 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:33:24 rdd` [~user@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 19:34:33 -!- benny` is now known as benny 19:34:57 nyef: no! 19:35:18 That seems rather emphatic. 19:35:56 -!- bandu [~coyotama@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:36:08 -!- rdd` is now known as rdd 19:36:09 hmm 19:39:07 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756f4c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:40:16 -!- kmc [clozure@clozure-5A26C47B.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Quit] 19:46:02 -!- Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Planned down time ^^] 19:47:54 rpx__ [~rpx@9-36.4-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 19:49:58 Adamant [~Adamant@c-69-136-200-213.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:49:58 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-69-136-200-213.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:49:58 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 19:50:40 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:52:21 Hi, I am trying to exectue a lisp script (#!/usr/bin/sbcl --script), is there a way to tell it where to look for asd files? 19:53:04 I get his error "Don't know how to REQUIRE SPLIT-SEQUENCE." 19:53:21 ... That was discussed recently somewhere, but I don't know what the actual result was. 19:54:41 If I want to read up on asd files and how require works, does anyone have a suggestion of a "page" 19:55:19 (thanks by the way) 19:55:22 *cough* http://www.google.ca/search?asdf+manual 19:55:42 drewc: haha, thanks 19:55:45 require in your case is calling asdf:load-system 19:56:24 is it? does SBCL (require 'asdf) automagically these days? 19:56:33 rpx__: (require 'asdf) and configure asdf:*central-registry* 19:56:39 hrm 19:56:51 drewc: no. 19:56:56 cl-bench requires 'make' to be run. 19:57:01 thanks :) 19:57:15 drewc: it does for me! oh well 19:57:27 my windows doesn't have that. wouldn't it be better to have that makefile in lisp instead? I mean, we all have lisp... 19:57:31 sbcl --script is not all that useful if you have to load other libraries. 19:57:46 anyway, what i was saying was when after asdf is loaded 19:57:53 ehu: You'd think. 19:58:00 Xach: sbcl --compile-and-wait-a-while 19:58:09 *ehu* looks into ti 19:58:12 *ehu* looks into it 19:58:12 In your mind, is sbcl or clisp better if you want to run as scripts 19:58:19 --and-hope-the-compilation-output-doesn't-overwhelm-whatever-you-actually-wanted-to-see 19:58:25 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has left #lisp 19:58:40 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 19:58:47 rpx__: I use sbcl for everything, but I build executables instead. They're pretty big on disk, but I don't mind. 19:58:57 http://xach.com/lisp/buildapp/ is what I use to make the executables. 19:59:03 *drewc* is happy using ksh93 for 'scripts' and sbcl for everything else. 19:59:09 Xach, thanks :) 19:59:13 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A4D5C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:00:45 Xach, by the way, I finally found where I had seen your name before :) Not to bad to be on the front of a book 20:02:01 as long as the book is not "Notorious Jerks and Idiots: A List", that is quite true. 20:02:18 Xach, haha, very true 20:02:38 abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:02:59 Alright, thanks for all the help, I wish you all a great evening 20:03:03 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-158.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:03:15 -!- rpx__ [~rpx@9-36.4-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:03:55 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.23.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:04:04 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.68] has joined #lisp 20:04:15 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.23.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:57 gonzojive [~red@171.66.88.248] has joined #lisp 20:06:27 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:07:55 I guess it is a good time to ask for a nice .emacs file from someone to use SLIME with various magics 20:09:10 well, you have to know what kind of magic it is to use it 20:09:31 Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 20:09:34 kushal: I can paste some .emacs init code for slime. 20:09:51 stassats, watching the video :) 20:10:09 reb, I am waiting :p 20:12:57 Is there an already-tied-in javascript runtime/runtime API librari for CL? I've searched Cliki under Javascript and found various Parenscripty things. I want something that can basically do an "Eval" and return something, if it exists. Unlikely; but I thought I'd ask. 20:13:43 katesmith_ [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 20:14:14 Eval javascript code in lisp, or lisp code in javascript? 20:14:23 <_3b> cl-spidermonkey or js ? 20:14:36 nyef: Some already string-in string-out that takes actual JS, as a string, and evals it. 20:14:50 Ironically, it's to unit-test some cases in my own yet-another-parenscript. 20:15:15 <_3b> http://github.com/gonzojive/cl-spidermonkey and http://github.com/akapav/js respectively 20:15:20 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:16:04 Hmmm.... I would like to port peter norvig's simple lisp interpreter to C. :) 20:16:39 dostoyevsky: i thought of the same thing yesterday 20:16:40 Aah - I thought spidermonkey was just a parenscript. Are either of these considered the better reference for compliant warts-and-all javascript? (I specifically do NOT want to hide the wartls) 20:16:57 both of _3b's suggesitons work pretty well. I recommend the js package for executing stuff unless it is rather complex, in which case spidermonkey is more robust 20:17:18 *_3b* hasn't tried either of them 20:17:24 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 20:17:49 claint: But he's probably recycling a lot of lisp-like features in Python, so the C version would be much longer and not really short, I fear.. 20:18:01 s/ in / from / 20:18:09 -!- kmc [clozure@clozure-5A26C47B.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: kmc] 20:18:42 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:18:48 -!- katesmith_ [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:19:05 yeah. he is using lambda, op.whatever and all that jazz. 20:20:14 fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-084-056-142-136.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:20 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:22:24 Spidermonkey is probably best for my purposes - I found the JS in Firefox more fragile/easily taken down than the 3 others (lotsa lambdas make it forget that variable exist) 20:22:43 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 20:31:13 claint: Hmmm... The way python uses lambda would require a compiler that at least generates p-code.. Maybe the easiest form of lambda would be to recycle eval... 20:31:37 s/ lambda / lambda in C / 20:31:48 urandom__ [~user@p548A5F35.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:03 lambda in C is a struct with a pointer to the function and a pointer to its lexical environment.. simple stuff! 20:34:01 basically just use the 'PERFORM "CELL INTRODUCTION" USING "SYMBOL-MACROLET"' trick to get mutable lexical bindings... see http://home.pipeline.com/~hbaker1/MetaCircular.html 20:35:31 -!- Krystof [~csr21@nat79.mia.three.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:38:20 -!- ohih0wru [ohih0wru@78.84.164.42] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:38:45 zeno` [~user@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:40:08 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@cpc1-belf4-0-0-cust889.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:40:23 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-242.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:42:26 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 20:44:38 Guthur [~Guthur@cpc1-belf4-0-0-cust889.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:45:38 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 20:46:23 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-242.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:47:30 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 20:47:59 Fare: if i have an initialized source-registry... then how can i programmatically append a single entry to it? do i need to use asdf internals for that? like appending directly to *source-registry*? 20:48:01 ShereKahn [~ajourez@64.65-67-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 20:49:15 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-230-225.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:49:59 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:50:56 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@12.53.193.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:50:58 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-230-225.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:53:18 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:55:46 tama [~coyotama@pool-71-164-234-131.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:57:02 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:57:28 -!- entropix [~entropi@192.55.55.39] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:58:37 rvirding [~chatzilla@h137n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 20:58:51 -!- coyo|pingout [~coyotama@pool-71-164-234-131.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:00:25 Is there a CL implementation of Google Protocol Buffers 21:00:54 I see one on google code but it seemed to have never got off the ground 21:02:15 oh nvm I found a couple of others 21:02:20 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:03:36 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:05:19 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 21:06:14 coyo|pingout [~coyotama@pool-71-164-234-131.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:06:34 -!- wareya [~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:07:11 wareya [~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:08:51 -!- tama [~coyotama@pool-71-164-234-131.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:08:57 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-96-105.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:09:18 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-96-105.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:10:40 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-86-136.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:10:44 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-86-136.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:11:53 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 21:12:17 attila_lendvai, there is currently no programmatic way of doing this :-/ 21:12:20 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:12:31 You could push a single directory to the central-registry though 21:13:23 Fare: hrm. what is going to be searched first? the source-registry or the *central-registry*? 21:14:28 seems like the *central-registry* 21:14:34 unless i'm too tired 21:14:43 -!- rfg [~rfg@client-86-25-218-131.glw-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:14:51 i mean except if i'm too tired 21:16:26 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-25-3.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 21:17:26 rfg [~rfg@host81-102-110-254.not-set-yet.ntli.net] has joined #lisp 21:17:54 lichtblau: slyrus ran indeed into the issue I fixed earlier this week. 21:18:01 lichtblau: that's verified now. 21:18:17 yes, seems to have fixed the problem. thanks guys. 21:21:27 Kaer [b@c-cfcee253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 21:22:07 -!- z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:22:13 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:22:14 -!- rfg [~rfg@host81-102-110-254.not-set-yet.ntli.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:22:29 Good evening everyone! 21:22:51 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 21:23:09 Xach_ [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:23:16 Just looking at nasty terms from ACM for ILC paper --- am I correct in thinking I can't put the paper on my web page after I sign this nastiness? 21:23:30 Edward [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-28-36.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:23:42 easy solution: put it on your webpage before you sign it? 21:25:13 AFAICT, once we sign this thing, the ACM owns our papers, and we don't even have a license to them. 21:25:15 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.196.151] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:26:29 -!- reb [~user@nat/google/x-tuebdzwgtplmrhoe] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:26:41 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:28:18 No. Wrong. The authors /do/ retain rights. It's just, weirdly, that they don't specify this on their web page front and center --- you have to actually click on a (?) help link to see this . 21:28:29 This is way weird, but not evil, which is a big relief. 21:28:33 davazp [~user@83.54.165.216] has joined #lisp 21:29:42 -!- Xach_ is now known as Xach 21:31:14 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-25-3.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:31:33 -!- claint [~user@88.247.119.253] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:31:56 -!- Tosh[Mnk][Drd] [~Sweater@87.246.131.149] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:33:26 *rpg* cannot imagine what led the ACM to push the critical information about author retained rights OFF THE CONTRACT PAGE onto a pop-up help window.... 21:33:42 c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:37:46 -!- ShereKahn [~ajourez@64.65-67-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:39:44 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.54.189] has joined #lisp 21:40:59 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:41:24 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-095-236.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 21:42:59 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:43:58 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-226-23.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:46:37 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-242.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:46:54 xinming_ [~hyy@122.238.77.168] has joined #lisp 21:48:17 -!- xinming [~hyy@115.221.9.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:49:06 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:49:44 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 21:50:04 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.54.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:51:10 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:51:23 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:53:01 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-242.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:53:13 Anarch [~olaf@c-67-171-37-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:54:40 What's the best way to open many files for writing? Like output/error streams 21:55:28 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:56:13 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 21:56:32 vs: you could nest with-open-files. 21:57:36 vs: Could you elaborate the exact use case? 21:57:38 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:57:39 -!- Blkt [~user@93-33-136-247.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Error: do not makunbound t please!] 21:58:21 -!- jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-7-68-199.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jajcloz] 21:58:22 tcr: I guess I wanted something like let, where I can open many files and pass streams to functions for writing 21:58:42 the number of files is known at compile-time? 21:58:45 vs: a macro for that would be fairly straightforward. 21:58:47 tcr: yes 21:58:59 Xach: I was just thinking that... 21:59:49 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:00:13 -!- tmh [~user@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 22:01:17 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:01:42 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756f4c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:01:57 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 22:02:42 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:05:57 rread [~rread@c-24-130-52-79.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:06:14 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 22:06:47 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 22:07:56 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:08:25 brown [~user@nat/google/x-briyyhuqjwaldcwy] has joined #lisp 22:08:51 -!- brown is now known as Guest22034 22:10:11 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:12:57 Just need to get the UNWIND-PROTECT right; should be relatively straightforward generalization... 22:14:45 e-future [~e-future@a81-84-164-44.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 22:14:45 -!- e-future [~e-future@a81-84-164-44.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Changing host] 22:14:45 e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 22:16:25 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 22:23:18 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:25:31 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-095-236.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:27:58 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 22:29:25 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-084-056-142-136.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 22:35:45 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 22:36:25 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@187.87.224.70] has left #lisp 22:37:06 tcr: it just occurred to me re &optional and &key: another annoyance is the differences in the defaulting behavior... was almost biten by it 22:38:47 elisp does not have defaulting behaviour 22:39:14 heh, right... seems like i'm too used to defun*... :) 22:39:44 I find the defaulting behaviour in CL annoying 22:40:08 don't both default to nil_ 22:40:10 ? 22:40:26 he means &optional (foo 42) 22:40:37 that's not supported in elisp 22:40:42 oh 22:40:50 i see 22:43:25 -!- davazp [~user@83.54.165.216] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:49:27 Are negative values allowed in LOOP REPEAT, or is it just an sbclism ? 22:49:50 dys [~andreas@krlh-5f734f92.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 22:50:55 "The repeat construct causes iteration to terminate after a specified number of times. The loop body executes n times, where n is the value of the expression form. The form argument is evaluated one time in the loop prologue. If the expression evaluates to 0 or to a negative number, the loop body is not evaluated. " 22:51:04 clhs 6.1.4 22:51:04 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/06_ad.htm 22:51:46 -!- Soulman [~knute@159.80-202-237.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 22:53:44 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:55:09 timack [~tim@142.177.10.102] has joined #lisp 22:55:50 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-169-124.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:59:57 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.228.198] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:00:22 errkle [~user@lawn-128-61-116-67.lawn.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 23:01:37 building my first executable with Enterprise ACL... anyone been down this road before? 23:01:51 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A5F35.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:02:03 errkle: few people here use Allegro. more free Lisps like SBCL and Clozure here. 23:02:19 errkle: i've heard Franz support is pretty great, and they seem like nice and friendly folks to me. 23:02:50 *Xach* uses creates executables with SBCL and buildapp 23:03:09 Yeah, I generally use SBCL as well. 23:03:23 haven't gotten to try Clozure yet. 23:04:13 *Fare* creates executables with sbcl, clisp, ccl, scl, cmucl, gcl, acl, lispworks (ecl currently broken) with cl-launch 23:04:56 oh crud I'd forgotten about cl-launch 23:05:43 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-45-140.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:06:27 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:07:01 *Fare* has given up hope on ecl. 23:07:02 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:08:28 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:08:32 Fare: given up on ECL w.r.t. cl-launch, or just in general? 23:09:08 ecl has a little bit of trouble with a lot of things, from what i can tell. 23:09:11 a bit of both 23:09:38 *rtoym* makes slime handle cmucl's unicode strings better. 23:09:44 I just think juanjo is overwhelmed, and so am I, so deprioritizing ecl support from cl-launch and xcvb 23:10:15 rtoym: asdf 2.009 is out. 23:10:40 Fare: Should I update? What's new? 23:12:38 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:13:08 lot of small changes since 2.008, including a few bug fixes. 23:13:26 Important bugs? Something I should look out for? 23:13:34 in terms of features, support for the pathname designator DSL in the source-registry 23:13:51 less annoying return value from load-system 23:14:21 robustification in some more edge cases. 23:16:16 Fare: I have an :around method on asdf:perform that rebuilds bad fasls. If I upgrade asdf, it gets blown away. Is there anything I can do to preserve it? 23:17:01 -!- kmc [kmc@clozure-5A26C47B.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: kmc] 23:17:58 you must redefine it after you upgrade asdf. 23:18:44 to upgrade, ASDF wipe previous versions of methods with either fmakunbound or unintern, both of which will make your thing unreachable. 23:20:16 b 23:20:22 -!- gonzojive [~red@171.66.88.248] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 23:20:26 (Sorry, thought I was in emacs :() 23:21:02 *Xach* must introduce some kind of post-asdf-update, pre-quicklisp-load init file then 23:21:11 and all that, because CL has no way to deal with change in signatures for functions. 23:21:17 stumpwm always makes me think I'm in emacs. 23:21:54 if you use cffi or similar packages that extend asdf, you similarly need to reload them, possibly to clear-system them first. 23:22:19 rtoym: each and every of the bugs is important to *someone*. 23:23:10 Fare: Critical to someone! I'm preparing to update cmucl's version to 2.009 now. 23:23:49 thanks 23:24:02 -!- svk_ [~kaw@svk.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:26:11 admittedly, most bug fixes do not affect cmucl much, but sbcl, ccl, ecl or clisp. 23:26:44 Because cmucl doesn't have that bug or because you didn't test? 23:26:58 because cmucl didn't have that bug. 23:27:10 (or rather, asdf, when using cmucl) 23:27:16 *rtoym* commits asdf.lisp to cmucl cvs repo. 23:27:22 thanks 23:27:33 you haven't moved to svn or git yet? 23:27:48 No. Too lazy to learn yet another vcs. 23:28:53 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-93-201-18.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:29:02 svk_ [~kaw@svk.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 23:30:53 -!- errkle [~user@lawn-128-61-116-67.lawn.gatech.edu] has left #lisp 23:31:07 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-242.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:33:11 milanj [~milanj_@77-46-219-167.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 23:34:11 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@cpc1-belf4-0-0-cust889.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:34:21 rtoym: I'd suggest gitref.org. It really easy to learn git with this. At least it did the trick for me, where many other tutorials and references have failed. 23:34:28 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:35:14 Hexstream: Thanks for the ref. I've been reading up a little on hg and git. But I don't really have any strong desire to convert cmucl to git or hg. 23:37:37 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-242.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:38:42 rtoym: Your loss ;) One important feature of git is that it has github.com. Don't underestimate GitHub, it's truly AWESOME. It might make it easier for potential contributors to get started... Just sayin'. 23:39:05 -!- kclifton [~kclifton@s198-166-45-245.ab.hsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: kclifton] 23:39:14 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-25-3.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:42:11 HarryS [H@harry.lu] has joined #lisp 23:42:17 -!- HarryS [H@harry.lu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:43:26 -!- The_Jon_Smith [~The_Jon_S@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:45:10 Somehow, I think the vcs doesn't change the desire of contributors to contribute. 23:47:49 I don't think the question is desire so much as barrier to entry/accessibility. 23:47:50 rtoym: For experimented contributors, perhaps not. But I think GitHub's easy forking can really help newbies with no experience contributing to open-source projects such as me get started. 23:49:00 Gee, what did people do before git? Not contribute to anything? :-) 23:50:41 Hraban [~user@78-21-52-134.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 23:51:06 -!- _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:51:10 salutations 23:51:17 Hraban: Hello. 23:51:19 -!- chrnybo [~user@148.122.202.244] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:51:51 chrnybo [~user@148.122.202.244] has joined #lisp 23:51:59 *rtoym* is too old-school. 23:52:14 *rtoym* does his part to keep the average of #lisp up. 23:52:37 rtoym: Average with respect to what? 23:52:54 Retro-pride? 23:52:54 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-230-225.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:53:01 Heh. Average age of people on #lisp. :-) 23:53:20 How old are you?... 23:53:39 gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:53:59 Old enough to have participated in the CL standardization (but didn't even know lisp then). 23:54:25 rtoym: everyday, I fight to increase the average by about 1day/#participants. 23:54:29 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-230-225.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:54:52 Fare: Ha! I do that without even trying... 23:54:53 Fare: Ban all the newbies. :-) 23:56:55 the best way is obviously to move everybody into ##lisp so that rtoym, or possibly somebody older than him, can stay here by himself 23:57:10 sort of like a ferryman, just sending people younger than him along to ##lisp 23:57:32 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:57:34 if I hack jmc's machine and have it log on IRC, does that count? 23:59:16 Sure. 23:59:41 don't ban me, I'm not new, I know lots about... stuff! >.>;