00:09:27 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:18:29 -!- timack [~tim@hlfx53-1-154.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:21:55 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:26:15 sdga [Pzo8lnJL@dslb-088-070-217-171.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 00:27:01 -!- sdga [Pzo8lnJL@dslb-088-070-217-171.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:28:25 abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:33:24 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:37:03 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:40:29 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:40:37 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 00:41:06 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:42:35 I'm trying to make an rrd-style graph using vecto, but whatever I do the lines I draw aren't thin enough -- they always have width 00:43:05 So when one line joins another at right angles, you can see it going half way through the first line, even with line-width set to 1 00:43:13 am I missing something? 00:43:58 example graph at http://clarkema.org/scratch/qgraph.png -- look at where the tick marks join the axes 00:45:05 adu [~ajr@64.134.98.146] has joined #lisp 00:47:06 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 00:47:43 hmmm 00:47:49 You want lines with no width? 00:48:26 Hum. I wish dotimes allowed nil as a var to signify you don't care about the value. 00:48:35 not exactly 'no' width, but of unit with 00:48:42 *schmrkc* gives Hexstream some LOOP 00:48:54 phrixos_: I'm not even sure what I'm supposed to be looking for in that picture :) 00:48:54 that is to say, you shouldn't be able to get half way through them, because they should be one indivisble pixel 00:49:01 I'm on an irrational crusade against LOOP. 00:49:12 Hexstream: Irrational crusades are the best kind. 00:49:31 Hexstream: I think I saw the other day you saying something about once you get good at lisp you don't use LOOP and ITERATE. 00:49:42 so I figured I'd troll you a bit ;) 00:49:44 Ok, so I actually have lots of justifications for getting almost completely rid of LOOP. The irrational and silly part is trying to eliminate it entirely instead of almost entirely. 00:50:05 ok 00:50:22 schmrkc: basically, you can see that the lines aren't as thin as they could be because where they meet they go into each other a certain amount; I'd like to make them thinner, but can't seem to manage it 00:50:23 phrixos_: OH! I see. 00:50:57 you want 'em like just single pixels, eh? 00:51:01 yes 00:51:47 right.. maybe it cant be done then... I'd think width 1 would be just that :S 00:52:12 i'd have thought so too, although there isn't a unit specified in the docs 00:52:58 I guess page Xach. 00:53:20 Hexstream: I like LOOP myself. I don't see anything bad with it :) 00:54:23 k, ta 00:56:26 One thing I don't like about it is that it's a bit of a virus. As soon as you want to use *ONE* of its features, you're forced to use it (LOOP) instead of whatever else other looping construct could have been appropriate. So, after some time you come to see almost any kind of looping as a candidate for LOOP. Anyway, content for a future blogpost there. 00:56:40 (: 00:57:00 ya those bloody lispers making up macros for making code easier to write ;) 00:57:36 Just remove DO and friends. 00:57:38 -!- wvdschel [~wim@78-20-14-180.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:03:00 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:03:01 Xach: are you around? 01:03:17 Not anymore it seems. 01:03:42 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 01:03:51 ah 01:03:56 heh 01:06:54 3am . people sleep :) 01:07:43 -!- fihi09 [~user@pool-96-224-39-26.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:11:22 khumba [~khumba@S010600259ce46bb1.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:13:33 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:23:24 clhs return-from 01:23:24 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_ret_fr.htm 01:24:27 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 01:25:47 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 01:28:09 Kerrick [~Kerrick@173-25-74-198.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 01:34:56 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-178-112.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:35:22 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:44:00 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A2FCD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:44:33 -!- adu [~ajr@64.134.98.146] has quit [Quit: adu] 01:45:54 wakeupsticky [47d02da2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.208.45.162] has joined #lisp 01:46:00 hi all 01:46:30 i'm interested in writing a gui app with clisp and emacs/SLIME (using lispbox) 01:47:09 what library or libraries do i need and how do i get them? i found "mcclim" onilne and tried (asdf-install mcclim) in slime but asdf-install doesn't work 01:47:57 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 01:48:13 time for... quicklisp! 01:48:35 i had nothing but problems with asdf-install which quicklisp has none of 01:48:50 wakeupsticky: i'd suggest cl-gtk2 which probably has a package for your favourite package manager. 01:49:09 humasect: where do you guys get it? :D 01:49:34 http://quicklisp.org/ is where i have been connected to it 01:50:32 is quicklisp an alternative to asdf? 01:50:58 i believe it requires asdf 01:51:06 it's an alternative to asdf-install 01:51:32 wakeupsticky: asdf compiles and loads dependencies in your program; quicklisp downloads them. 01:51:33 but i have never touched asdf-install since (which is the package that did not work for me (in SBCL)) and since then all packages work flawlessly 01:51:40 ahh~ 01:51:45 lisp is all about alternatives. 01:52:10 quicklisp isn't available to the public... 01:52:11 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:52:25 Maybe clbuild then. 01:52:37 anyway, asdf-install is not recognized in slime (in lispbox) 01:52:51 i think i am the public. maybe you can email the creator or poke around in #quicklisp 01:52:52 is typing (asdf-install mcclim) not right? 01:52:59 wakeupsticky: That is because clisp does not include asdf-install by default. 01:53:06 (asdf-install:install :mcclim) ; afaik 01:53:29 oh, so how do you get libraries in clisp? 01:53:29 :) 01:53:31 wakeupsticky: You will probably have a better life going with sbcl or ccl than clisp :) 01:53:51 wakeupsticky: well you can install quicklisp, clbuild, or asdf-install. or install by hand. or some other neat way. 01:54:38 -!- cinch [~cinch@unaffiliated/cinch] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:54:42 unfortunately i'm stuck on windows for now 01:54:50 I think ccl runs fine on windows. 01:55:15 asdf-install is a horrid mess though. You might just want to ask #quicklisp on what do :) 01:55:29 yeah. =) 01:55:36 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-178-112.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 01:55:41 wakeupsticky: I'm not even convinced that mcclim will work on windows unless you install an xserver there. 01:56:04 welcome to the world of lisp gui ;) 01:56:05 oh? i don't know. i'm just interested in making a gui app and i have to use windows for now. 01:56:20 lol :) 01:56:21 ya.. I hear there are some pretty decent qt bindings around. 01:56:36 i tried haskell but it was pretty bad 01:57:07 Really? I thought haskell community had splendid gtk bindings around. 01:57:41 wakeupsticky: If I was stuck on windows and had to GUI I'd install me some vs2010 and F# + that forms thing in .net. 01:57:49 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 01:58:01 i thought all guis are moving to the web 01:58:08 well, i already am conversant in lisp 01:58:17 don't know anything about .net or F# 01:58:19 parenscript! =) 01:58:27 that's why i needed quicklisp.=) 01:58:43 humasect: I have actually considered abandoning mcclim in favour of the webui. 01:59:00 but I don't really understand webtechnology. It seems so complicated and not as simple for my head as clim is :) 01:59:09 it seems a lot of people are doing so 01:59:17 but oh.. people with a deranged clim-mind could actually use the apps. 01:59:22 eh yeah it took me a while to wrap my head around it too 01:59:38 wakeupsticky: I'm thinking qt really. 01:59:40 still a bit complicated but it makes sense.=) 01:59:48 ya 01:59:48 ok i just downloaded ccl 02:00:02 http://common-lisp.net/project/commonqt/ I think is it. 02:00:27 humasect: it makes sense for some things ya :) 02:00:42 Modius [~Modius@cpe-24-28-30-165.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:01:01 idk, i don't know if this is going to work (ccl). 02:01:14 *schmrkc* has no idea either. 02:01:26 windows seems complicated for getting things done. 02:01:41 lack of apps. complicated installation procedures.. etc. 02:01:54 write the interface for/with emacs lisp ^_^ 02:02:10 yaaa 02:02:16 just then you need to start up emacs all the time. 02:02:46 yeah.. web browser is more common to have open 02:02:58 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:03:05 so i have ccl now, but i just have an interpreter 02:03:12 -!- khumba [~khumba@S010600259ce46bb1.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Oyasumi.] 02:03:15 and emacs seems impossible to install 02:03:25 wakeupsticky: You need to set slime up to use ccl instead of clisp. 02:03:26 i think it is becoming more common for people to visit the web earlier and more often than they do their own filesystem=) 02:03:32 oh, right 02:03:57 humasect: yeees. 02:04:17 some apps I do would not be so nice with webui though. so I dunno. 02:04:24 its not ideal for everything. 02:04:26 yet. 02:04:29 hurry up, google. 02:04:30 have you seen 280slides.com ? 02:04:53 have I seen 280slides.com ... pffft! *looks at website* of course I have. 02:04:59 heheh 02:05:08 oh like some powerpoint :) 02:05:15 seeing that, my mind changed slightly more. it is quite a powerful app too 02:05:19 and works in IE 02:05:25 right ya. 02:05:28 it doesn't change my mind :) 02:05:32 I like web for a lot of htings. 02:05:41 wakeupsticky: rdnzl allows you to use system.windows.forms from lisp, but i don't know if it works with ccl at all. another ccl option might be cocotron, but i think it's in early stages. the easiest way to deliver a gui cl app under windows is still one of {allegro,lispworks,corman}. 02:05:47 hehe oh of course it depends what it is. =) 02:05:53 like google docs and what heck. It's great for sharing whatever with the workgroup. having access wherever. 02:06:02 allegro? that's an option with lispbox 02:06:06 would lispbox/allegro work? 02:06:20 wakeupsticky: allegro is a bit pricey :) 02:06:23 sure, if you can swing the licensing 02:06:32 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:06:36 oh...do they have a free non-commercial license? 02:06:45 they do... 02:06:48 with some limitations. 02:07:18 -!- Soulman [~knute@159.80-202-237.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 02:07:21 humasect: I can see google buying this 280slides thing :) 02:07:23 hey, if i can get up and running with allegro and get the thing written then i might be able to port it to linux later 02:07:40 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 02:07:42 schmrkc: or apple hehe 02:07:58 doesn't ccl have some "easygui" thing? 02:08:13 so assuming i use lispbox/allegro, do i then want to use quicklisp? apparently asdf-install is "a mess"? 02:08:45 schmrkc: well, it has some cocoa-based stuff. and afaik there's been quite a bit of work to get it to use cocotron on other platforms, but i haven't tried it yet myself. 02:08:56 I think maybe allegro comes with a "builtin" GUI builder 02:09:07 tokenrove: oh ok. 02:09:09 a lot of my Cocoa code was ported without much change to Cappuccino 02:09:15 what about more fine-grained stuff like opengl? 02:09:34 http://trac.clozure.com/ccl/wiki/EasyGui was the one. 02:10:00 wakeupsticky: then you will need to install bindings somehow, yeah. 02:10:16 anyone know if allegro has opengl bindings? 02:10:27 I don't think it does. 02:10:38 cl-opengl with sdl ? 02:10:44 but there is cl-opengl. I highly doubt it has been tested with allegro, and especially not on windows. 02:11:09 why wouldn't it have been tested on allegro? because of their licensing? 02:11:33 sdl works good on windows, if cl-opengl is used with that it should be fine~ 02:11:46 why'd you need sdl though? 02:11:56 for doing the dirty windows stuff=) 02:12:10 lol allegro just crapped out trying to install 02:12:11 and that it works on other platforms 02:12:15 wakeupsticky: opengl'ing isn't the most common thing in the lisp world. and allegro isn't very common. neither is windows. its an odd combination. speaking of the free world here, of course. 02:12:21 oh 02:12:22 it was trying to connect me to some site to get a license and it timed out 02:12:49 lispworks has some gui thing too iirc. 02:13:04 retrieval of your license failed 02:13:07 lisp cannot start etc 02:13:15 lol 02:13:32 nice. 02:13:46 "Generous heap size (60MB)" :) 02:16:27 trying again. i think i had emacs running still. maybe that caused the connection problem. 02:16:32 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 02:16:53 That'd be great if emacs blocked all ip traffic. 02:16:58 lol 02:17:36 it controls the vertical and the horizontal 02:17:45 :D 02:17:46 the TCP and the UDP 02:19:29 allegro comes with a file called newlicense.exe that the installer tries to run 02:19:30 hehe 02:19:38 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-70-20-56-192.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 02:19:42 i ran it myself and...a blank window opens and nothing happens 02:20:01 allegro is failing hard at getting people to download their implementation 02:21:47 Maybe they are having server problems. 02:22:05 It was an easy install last time I tried. 02:22:11 *schmrkc* will try again. 02:22:58 oh 02:23:01 there is no x86-64 version. 02:23:16 i'm on vista 02:23:22 it's not 64... 02:23:26 well for me I meant. I was going to give it a try. 02:23:33 oh right 02:23:42 hmmm.. yet it says there is. maybe it is just the free version that is not so. 02:23:52 also there is a 64bit vista :) 02:24:10 oh, i don't have it though :P 02:24:21 me neither. 02:24:54 ok, so let's say i got ubuntu or something and dual-booted 02:25:07 is it reasonably straightforward to do lisp gui stuff on linux? 02:25:53 well... some would disagree with mcclim being reasonable and/or straightforward. 02:25:59 but sure :) 02:26:35 well, i didn't really want to use smalltalk but i might just do that :P 02:26:44 pharo \o/ 02:26:55 there's cl-gtk2 . no idea if it is any good. 02:27:23 does that work with clisp or just ccl? 'cause as of now i can only get clisp (via lispbox) to work 02:27:46 http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-gtk2/compatibility.html 02:28:09 I'm thinking installing emacs + slime + ccl and setting taht up should be doable. 02:28:24 ah, it works with sbcl and windows, but lispbox doesn't work with sbcl and windows :) 02:28:39 weeeell. just forget about lispbox 02:28:49 >_> 02:28:54 such a pain though 02:29:06 -!- rfg [~rfg@client-86-25-217-99.glw-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has quit [Quit: rfg] 02:29:20 ok 02:29:36 never installed emacs on windows. I figured it was just to ask the package manager to download it :( 02:29:37 i mean if i knew how to manually install emacs/slime i would 02:29:59 i have to go but thanks for your help 02:30:09 http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/windows/Installing-Emacs.html#Installing-Emacshttp://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/windows/Installing-Emacs.html#Installing-Emacs 02:30:46 allegro has its own opengl binding, btw. opengl'ing is actually pretty common in the lisp world. 02:31:14 unfortunately allegro couldn't get me licensed for some reason 02:31:33 would you have any idea what that's about? 02:31:46 sadly the last lisp gui i wrote was on top of opengl and sdl, and perhaps that's why i now think rdnzl or a commercial solution is probably the minimum pain. 02:31:57 rdnzl? 02:32:14 ah,lisp on .net 02:32:41 i dunno, i never had any problems with the free license. 02:32:47 symbole [~user@216.214.176.130] has joined #lisp 02:32:48 -!- N-14 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Bye bye] 02:32:58 -!- wakeupsticky [47d02da2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.208.45.162] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 02:33:16 timack [~tim@hlfx47-134.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 02:33:53 rdnzl is actually a .net bridge, so it's not like ironscheme/whatever that runs on the clr. 02:37:45 -!- rread [~rread@c-24-130-52-79.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: rread] 02:37:56 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:38:04 arquebus [~shintaro@201.160.3.219.cable.dyn.cableonline.com.mx] has joined #lisp 02:39:45 -!- LiamH [~nobody@pool-141-156-214-211.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:39:55 -!- arquebus [~shintaro@201.160.3.219.cable.dyn.cableonline.com.mx] has left #lisp 02:40:23 tokenrove: It seems a very uncommon thing in the free lisp world, as stated. 02:43:54 schmrkc: perhaps. i guess a lot of people doing things with gl in lisp aren't releasing their applications, but it seems like it's come up a decent bit here and on planet.lisp.org. 02:45:16 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:46:09 -!- ost````` [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:46:21 ost````` [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 02:46:54 tokenrove: It pops up now and then, yes. 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05:57:31 -!- pierrep [~ppasteau@bas1-montreal43-2925257677.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:02:04 Good morning eveyone! 06:03:05 good morning=) 06:11:15 jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-158.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:12:46 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:16:04 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:16:06 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:18:20 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 06:19:08 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:52:13 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:57:07 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-217-149.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:59:37 -!- clog [nef@bespin.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:59:56 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-23-166.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 07:01:40 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-56-91.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:02:25 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 07:11:31 tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:12:47 morning. a really good morning. 07:15:40 to anybody interested: we fixed the last Maxima failure on ABCL yesterday. 07:15:52 (last failure in the test suite, of course) 07:16:02 so, this is a happy morning. 07:17:53 pierrep [~ppasteau@bas1-montreal43-2925257677.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 07:25:52 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 07:30:46 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@173-25-74-198.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: Kerrick] 07:34:20 gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.230.177] has joined #lisp 07:38:06 ehu: Congratulations! 07:39:15 beach: thanks! I'm really happy: it's a goal I set for ABCL more than two years ago! 07:39:37 ehu: That's fantastic. I know how that must feel. 07:40:22 *ehu* blogs about it to let the world know 07:40:54 I hope it shows the world we're dead serious about having ABCL being an option if you're choosing a CL implementatino 07:40:59 implementation 07:42:29 does cffi runs on abcl ? 07:43:16 there was some patches, apparently 07:46:58 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 07:47:20 timor [~timor@port-92-195-5-176.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:49:02 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.184.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:50:16 pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-242.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:50:44 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.115.194.44] has joined #lisp 07:56:55 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 07:57:21 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-92-25.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 08:00:32 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:03:22 lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 08:06:55 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-5-176.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:08:38 galdor: I hear it does. 08:08:59 galdor: it uses JNA, which may not be installed on your machine. 08:10:15 -!- atomx` [~user@92.80.115.186] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:10:47 atomx` [~user@92.80.115.186] has joined #lisp 08:13:20 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 08:13:42 splittist [~John@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 08:13:45 morning 08:17:04 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:20:11 timor [~timor@port-92-195-127-88.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:21:33 good morning 08:21:33 nikodemus, memo from nyef: More disassembler changes (widetag lookup by virtue of a nasty hack, and a bugfix on threaded x86-64) now available. 08:24:23 ehu: I was thinking about using abcl to distribute lisp programs 08:24:44 java runtime is easy to install for end-users 08:26:05 galdor: we'll gladly help you to find out how to best do that. 08:26:23 galdor: I use it for the same purpose. 08:27:09 If you want to chat specifically about abcl, there's also #abcl, but the mailing list works very well too. 08:27:37 hello splittist, nikodemus 08:27:55 -!- ehu changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: ABCL on Maxima, SBCL 1.0.43, Bordeaux-Threads 0.8.0, CMUCL 20b 08:28:02 well I'll look into it when it's the time for release :) 08:28:35 minion: memo for nyef: shiny! i was actually playing around with adding lowtag notes for LEA myself, but there were too many false positives unless i restricted it to stack allocation 08:28:35 Remembered. I'll tell nyef when he/she/it next speaks. 08:30:48 -!- c|mell [~cmell@182.76.209.88.dynamic.monaco.mc] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:32:50 [my cat typing lisp http://i.imgur.com/MMmFy.jpg ] 08:33:46 pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.196.151] has joined #lisp 08:35:33 timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-209-123.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:37:06 tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:37:11 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-127-88.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:42:46 -!- atomx` [~user@92.80.115.186] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:51:45 execve [~execve@ppp-81-25-57-185.ultranet.ru] has joined #lisp 08:52:15 -!- pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-242.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo_] 08:52:50 -!- timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-209-123.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:53:55 slyrus_: I removed the tests for element type in flexichain and ran the tests. The CVS version now reflects the changes. 08:59:43 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-158.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:03:21 -!- humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: changing keymap] 09:04:10 Blkt [~user@93-33-129-19.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 09:04:50 humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 09:06:30 timor [~timor@port-92-195-20-228.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 09:09:26 kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-ezsmooleqdxoioup] has joined #lisp 09:09:26 -!- kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-ezsmooleqdxoioup] has quit [Changing host] 09:09:26 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 09:09:32 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:09:50 beach: flexichain runs on ABCL now then? 09:10:40 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 09:14:11 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 09:16:07 ASau [~user@178.177.16.164] has joined #lisp 09:16:21 ehu: I would think so, yes. It did before as well, unless you did weird things about the element type :) 09:17:04 heh. no, but yesterday slyrus was trying to figure out how to make it run (again?) 09:17:35 he does weird things with element-type! :) 09:20:15 good to hear we're back in working order. 09:20:41 he might still have problems with the way ABCL handles array element upgrading, of course. 09:21:21 he probably does: I'll need to file a ticket stating we need to sync our vector and array types 09:22:06 timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-87-199.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 09:23:40 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-20-228.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:24:13 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:24:18 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@229.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:24:35 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 09:27:49 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-62-106.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 09:27:54 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-62-106.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:28:20 minion: memo for nyef: tweaks on top of your widetag display: http://github.com/nikodemus/SBCL/tree/disassembly-hax 09:28:20 Remembered. I'll tell nyef when he/she/it next speaks. 09:35:30 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:36:22 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 09:37:01 I am trying to connect to mysql using clsql , can anyone tell me what I am missing 09:37:02 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@118.71.132.157] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:37:02 http://fpaste.org/Xg9z/ 09:38:12 timor [~timor@port-92-195-119-202.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 09:39:02 -!- timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-87-199.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:39:23 -!- humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:39:45 cmpitg [~cmpitg@118.71.132.157] has joined #lisp 09:39:58 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@118.71.132.157] has quit [Client Quit] 09:40:34 kushal: the actual problem is earlier, before the first time you hit the debugger 09:40:54 nikodemus, may be because I am missing mysql-devel ? 09:41:07 could be 09:41:10 ok 09:41:14 let me try 09:41:39 last night had a big dream , now want to implement it :p 09:41:58 but the "erred while invoking #" means you got an error (or a serious warning) earlier on, not visible in the paste 09:42:16 Yuuhi [benni@p5483A471.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:42:19 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:42:19 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 09:42:19 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 09:44:15 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 09:45:54 homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-232-123.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:45:58 wbooze` [~user@xdsl-87-79-232-123.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:46:26 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:48:19 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-244-247.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:48:28 The WARNINGS-P and FAILURE-P return values from COMPILE-FILE are listed as generalized booleans. Could SBCL record the first error and warning it sees, and pass their printed representation on to asdf as return values? 09:48:37 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-244-247.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:48:52 Guthur [~Guthur@host86-138-192-80.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:49:01 That way, ASDF could display something meaningful instead of the junk message mentioned above which people are usually pasting. 09:51:51 nikodemus, ok 09:52:11 lichtblau: not a bad idea 09:52:13 nikodemus, biggest issue I can see Couldn't load foreign libraries "libmysqlclient", "libmysql". (searched CLSQL-SYS:*FOREIGN-LIBRARY-SEARCH-PATHS*) 09:52:31 but all libs and devel packages are installed 09:52:48 timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-114-252.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 09:52:59 lichtblau: ASDF should use handler-bind on a warning and fail right there 09:53:34 Hrm not sure about with-compilation-unit and deferred warnings 09:54:12 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 09:54:17 nikodemus, is there any other package to connect to mysql ? 09:54:23 kushal: locate libmysqlclient.so and libmysql.so, and make sure they are in the right path 09:55:08 kushal: dunno. most people here seem to prefer postgresql 09:55:16 nikodemus, ok 09:55:26 I don't have choice there 09:55:43 (and if they aren't, add those paths to CLSQL-SYS:*FOREIGN-LIBRARY-SEARCH-PATHS* 09:55:50 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-119-202.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:57:08 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:59:07 nikodemus, ok 10:00:26 Abezethibou [~user@212.253.222.247] has joined #lisp 10:00:42 *Abezethibou* says hello 10:02:54 nikodemus, do you have any clude where CLSQL-SYS:*FOREIGN-LIBRARY-SEARCH-PATHS* is defined ? 10:03:02 ASau` [~user@109.188.8.164] has joined #lisp 10:04:02 ehu (and others): ABCL seems to accept (defclass foo (bar)) for a direct-slotless subclass definition. sbcl doesn't. The latter makes more sense to me, albeit I appreciate the convenience of the former. And now I've forgotten what my question was :P 10:04:21 -!- ASau [~user@178.177.16.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:06:56 rfg [~rfg@client-86-25-217-99.glw-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has joined #lisp 10:06:56 found it :)( 10:07:11 peterbb [~peterbb@s22-00036.dsl.no.powertech.net] has joined #lisp 10:07:29 timor [~timor@port-92-195-115-4.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 10:09:32 awesome , it works :) 10:09:54 nikodemus, had to change the Makefile and pushed a path , it works now :) 10:10:26 -!- timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-114-252.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:11:55 Hello Abezethibou 10:13:45 i have a problem on ubuntu-emacs23-slime system. slime-mode doesnot work properly 10:13:46 nipra_ [~nipra@59.161.29.151] has joined #lisp 10:14:45 REPL system and lisp-mode cant tab the file 10:14:45 cmpitg [~cmpitg@118.71.132.157] has joined #lisp 10:15:21 REPL doesnot response key 10:15:33 report problems with ubuntu packages to ubuntu 10:15:52 here you can get help if you're using Slime from CVS 10:16:21 stassats: i will 10:16:37 Abezethibou: you don't have (slime-setup '(slime-repl)) or (slime-setup '(slime-fancy)) in your .emacs? 10:17:16 i have all of them and rewrite my .emacs (i did many times before without any pain) 10:18:30 actually packages are old on ubuntu apt-get installition system 10:19:03 i will change my distro, but anyway i will report all to ubuntu 10:19:11 well, that's the problem with ubuntu packages of lisp packages which don't have releases 10:19:26 change your distro? because of that? that doesn't sound reasonable 10:19:58 cmucl is 1.2 on taht and sbcl is old to.. 10:20:34 1.2? that doesn't sound like cmucl's version numbering 10:21:14 and i am at the beginning of the learning lisp.. i dont want to lost time . I will use lispbox on windows .. 10:21:29 that doesn't sound reasonable either 10:21:59 what's reasonable: install sbcl from sources, and get clbuild 10:22:02 minion: clbuild 10:22:03 clbuild: clbuild is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 10:22:29 but don't forget to _purge_ sbcl, slime and cl-swank packages 10:23:19 -!- Abezethibou [~user@212.253.222.247] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:24:16 Abezethibou [~user@212.253.222.247] has joined #lisp 10:24:24 sorry i lost connection 10:24:36 minion: please tell Abezethibou about logs 10:24:36 Abezethibou: please see logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 10:25:18 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-115-4.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:25:25 Jubb [~ghost@129.21.86.99] has joined #lisp 10:26:02 thanks stassats 10:28:50 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 10:29:50 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-232-123.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:29:55 -!- wbooze` [~user@xdsl-87-79-232-123.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:34:47 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-232-123.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:35:11 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-232-123.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:44:16 loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 10:44:21 -!- loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:48:20 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:48:55 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 10:52:29 how to test if a value is nil or not ? 10:52:45 clhs null 10:52:45 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_null.htm 10:53:03 thanks 10:53:21 or just use generalized booleans 10:54:09 stassats, worked in the way I was trying 10:55:02 sabalaba [~sabalaba@123.118.125.127] has joined #lisp 10:55:52 aes_ [~aes@c80-216-253-27.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 10:57:30 What's the rationale for "null" and not "nullp"? 10:58:08 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 10:58:41 Quadrescence: that's one of the least disturbing naming issues with CL. 10:58:52 Compared to Scheme 10:59:02 naryl: hahaha 10:59:11 -!- tsuru [~charlie@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:59:15 naryl: What do you not like/find disturbing about Scheme/ 10:59:16 ?* 11:00:44 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:01:12 kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-vbuaskyelcliuapo] has joined #lisp 11:01:12 -!- kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-vbuaskyelcliuapo] has quit [Changing host] 11:01:12 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 11:01:14 No, I mean CL has some weirdly named functions 11:01:29 Bronsa [~bronsa@host189-191-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 11:01:35 sometimes destructive versions have N in front of them, sometimes they are named differently (remove-delete) 11:02:10 Whereas Scheme has ! to denote destructive functions 11:02:40 not every predicate in CL ends with "p", but every Scheme predicate ends with "?" 11:03:02 oh yeah 11:03:12 And generally, Scheme is a nice language until you try to write something. :D 11:03:19 Hahahah yeah 11:10:14 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:10:46 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host189-191-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:11:05 Bronsa [~bronsa@host189-191-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 11:11:09 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 11:12:17 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 11:13:40 naryl: but it's hard to talk about scheme 11:14:18 i always confuse, whether someone is asking something or exclaiming 11:16:55 Wait until you write your first destructive predicate :-) 11:17:03 stassats: so just use the function null? 11:17:28 you got me confused! 11:18:04 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-62-106.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:18:15 i already gave you confused! in the last commit I pushed 11:18:31 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: BrandLeeJones] 11:18:47 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-26-150.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:19:19 adeht, You mentioned you tried cl-zmq/zeromq, did you find it a decent solution for messaging? 11:19:33 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:19:43 Quadrescence: it has destructive effects on me 11:20:03 adeht, Was there anything in particular I should be watching out for, or a reason to avoid it? 11:20:19 pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-242.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:20:29 madrik [~user@122.168.13.168] has joined #lisp 11:21:09 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host189-191-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:21:29 stassats: what do you vote to be the weirdest named CL function/macro? 11:21:32 debugger told me The value 12767 is not of type SEQUENCE. and shows (GIVE-SYMBOLS # 12767) , not being able to figure out why it should be a sequence 11:21:34 -!- ASau [~user@109.188.8.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:22:29 give-symbols uses a sequence function on the second parameter 11:22:38 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@123.118.125.127] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:22:56 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:23:21 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 11:24:08 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-134-26-130.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 11:25:14 tcr, this is the definition http://fpaste.org/fjK2/ 11:26:45 though not sure that this is a right way to write lisp code 11:27:46 it is the wrong way indeed 11:28:24 ok 11:28:27 "block main" where did you learn to do this? 11:29:18 stassats, no where , just trying to find out how to write few statements sequentially 11:29:19 nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 11:29:25 or should I use PROGN 11:29:48 -!- MikeSeth [~me@unaffiliated/mikeseth] has left #lisp 11:30:01 why do you think you need anything to write statements sequentially inside DEFUN? 11:30:09 stassats: by the way, I think TERPRI is the weirdest-named function 11:30:20 terminal print 11:30:21 Maybe it was the lack of braces 11:30:23 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:30:34 just abbreved 11:30:53 homie: I still can't get my mind to accept the name 11:30:59 hmmm 11:31:05 stassats, I mean, first I need to run dolist on the result of the query and then fill the tsyms variable (hash table) and then return it 11:31:25 stassats, can you please show me how to write that in proper way 11:31:39 SUBLIS is always weird to me too, but I understand the name okay 11:31:41 kushal: what makes you think you need either PROGN, or whatever, to do that? 11:31:59 PRINC always gets me 11:32:12 it's short for prince 11:32:16 hahaha 11:32:29 I always pronounce it "preenk" 11:33:17 stassats, because I think I misunderstood where and why I should use PROGN or BLOCK 11:35:40 -!- madrik [~user@122.168.13.168] has left #lisp 11:35:45 -!- katofiad is now known as katofiad|afk 11:35:49 -!- katofiad|afk is now known as katofiad 11:38:37 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.115.194.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:39:46 Ppjet6 [~ppjet@ALille-256-1-33-235.w90-18.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:39:56 kushal: Presumably, you have read some document that made you think you needed block and/or progn. What document is that? 11:40:32 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.179.194] has joined #lisp 11:40:36 -!- Pepe__ [~ppjet@ALille-256-1-33-235.w90-18.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:42:21 beach, I had that idea while reading the lisp faq iirc 11:42:54 kushal: That sounds very strange indeed. 11:43:06 yes 11:43:44 beach, I got confused as none of the examples of function I was reading showed me more than 1 statement as such 11:43:48 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-178-112.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:44:19 Anyway, I think it is a very suboptimal way of learning Lisp to try to come up with code that you have never seen anyone write, and then have it fixed up here. 11:44:39 beach, ok, my mistake, It seems I skipped few lines 11:44:41 kushal: Someone with your nick came here almost 4 years ago and was recommended reading PCL. 11:44:52 nyef [~nyef@pool-70-20-56-192.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 11:45:18 beach, I was asked to read PCL 4 days ago btw 11:45:50 and it was my mistake that skipped that example where it explained/showed very well 11:46:30 beach, btw, how can you remember a nick from 4 years in past ? 11:46:41 kushal: I can't, but I know my tools. 11:46:52 grep kushal * is all it takes 11:46:53 ok 11:47:26 should not be me, as 4 years ago I was spending time to learn python 11:47:42 Fair enough. 11:48:44 Oh, that reminds me, I need to look up implementation(s) of list comprehensions in CL. 11:48:48 LOOP doesn't count! 11:49:06 loop can count 11:49:08 Quadrescence: Tell that to the COUNT loop keyword! 11:49:10 There's a paper from 97 on the topic 11:49:15 or was it 93? 11:49:24 nyef: COUNT or COUNTING? 11:49:36 I never recall all the loop fancy shenanigans. 11:49:51 They're synonyms. 11:50:11 summing counting maximizing collecting 11:50:11 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-26-150.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:50:19 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-26-150.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:50:36 beach, so is this http://fpaste.org/P6UI/ looks better ? 11:50:42 timor [~timor@port-92-195-117-99.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 11:50:55 *stassats* never uses gerund in LOOP 11:51:02 minion: tell kushal about lisppaste! 11:51:18 *sigh* 11:51:21 Essentially, LOOP accepts both gerund and imperative forms for a number of keywords. 11:51:21 kushal: now you're using return-from for no reason 11:51:42 minion: Are you there? 11:51:42 no 11:51:49 stassats: gerund or present participle? 11:51:57 minion: lisppaste? 11:52:07 Oh well. 11:52:08 http://paste.lisp.org 11:52:08 stassats: gerunds work as nouns. ;) 11:52:13 Hrm. 11:52:35 stassats, if I just try to return the variable , it tries to evaluate it as a function 11:52:49 kushal: don't put it in parens then 11:52:59 Ah! 11:53:00 kushal: Like I said, trying to learn Lisp by submitting that kind of code on #lisp and then expecting others to fix it up, is very suboptimal. 11:53:02 minion: lisppaste? 11:53:09 Yeah, that's what I thought. 11:53:10 lisppaste isn't here 11:53:27 beach: What do you suppose the time complexity of learning Lisp that way is? 11:53:31 beach: The lisppaste bot is offline, and minion defers requests for lisppaste to the lisppaste bot. 11:53:32 and minion answers that through lisppaste 11:53:39 beach, ok, sorry for that, I should spend more time with the book then 11:53:51 nyef: I see. Thanks! 11:53:55 -!- execve [~execve@ppp-81-25-57-185.ultranet.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:54:00 Thus, we get a lovely backtrace-as-list on the console whenever someone asks minion about lisppaste. 11:54:08 Quadrescence: Pretty bad, I would think. 11:54:28 *nyef* disconnects from clnet. 11:54:50 beach: surely memory complexity is only O(log n) though ;) 11:55:40 kushal: For instance, submitting code that is not correctly indented is almost insulting. You are asking #lisp participants to count parentheses instead of being able to rely on correct indentation. The message is "I can't bother to read a book, so I'll attempt to wast the time of everyone else". 11:56:09 Quadrescence: For the person asking? Sounds right. 11:56:37 kushal: why would you use return-from when you don't really need it, and could simply (return tsyms) or even tsyms? 11:56:38 kushal: speaking of books, if you have done programming before then Practical Common Lisp (available online for free) is a great choice 11:56:57 beach, I understood, fpaste happily ate my indentation and it is obviously my mistake of trying to jump 11:56:58 Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs is also very popular 11:57:27 kushal: http://paste.lisp.org next time then :) it can syntax highlight and such aswell 11:57:30 sytse: you couldn't simply (return tsyms) 11:57:34 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-178-112.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 11:57:44 OliverUv, Xach pointed me to PCL and I am reading that , not writing enough code is my problem 11:57:53 ahh ok 11:57:59 stassats: oh? 11:58:05 it'll get better as long as you put genuine effort into it, so don't worry 11:58:05 sytse: yeah! 11:58:14 stassats: anyway, you could simply put 'tsyms' there 11:58:27 *Quadrescence* is bothered when people just use 4-space tabs to indent lisp code as if it was C code. 11:58:31 s/could/should/ 11:59:00 Quadrescence, should I use two spaces ? 11:59:17 >_> 11:59:17 you should let emacs deal with that 11:59:21 kushal: You should use whatever Emacs/SLIME suggests. 11:59:55 Is the correct indentation for the first two forms in a multiple-value-bind 6 and 4 spaces, or 4 and 6? 12:00:30 kushal: Any attempt to manually indent is going to fail at some point, and when you show what to someone else, they will find out, and can no longer trust your parenthesis count, and we are back to the insulting situation. 12:01:15 Do you guys pronounce "fasl" as "fazzle"? 12:01:30 I do. 12:01:35 Good. :) 12:01:50 *nyef* doesn't. More sibilant on the S. 12:01:51 i pronounce it as fasl 12:02:04 To rhyme with "hassle". 12:02:14 stassle 12:02:26 I just don't pronounce it at all :P 12:02:29 aurelien [~uncle@fsf/member/aurelien] has joined #lisp 12:02:35 that works best in many cases imho ;-) 12:03:18 beach, ok, now I have to learn emacs also :) 12:03:21 because fas is for fast 12:03:59 kushal: It will pay off *very* fast. 12:04:08 stassats: I pronounce "terpri" as "tear-pree" :-D 12:04:17 beach, ok 12:04:46 tear can be pronounced differntly 12:04:53 tare 12:04:56 tair 12:05:06 *Quadrescence* needs to learn IPA 12:05:57 *sytse* needs to learn to type IPA 12:06:12 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 12:06:18 (or learn X-SAMPA) 12:06:33 sytse: learn APL first ;) 12:06:37 lol 12:06:50 APL is easy 12:07:03 but learning it.. seems a bit pointless these days 12:07:07 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-202-208.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:07:32 (easy for mathematically minded people at least) 12:07:40 josemanuel [~josemanue@62.252.217.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 12:07:49 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:08:08 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7545d3.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 12:08:22 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-202-208.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 12:09:06 Anyone know of an CL XDR package 12:09:43 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.230.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:09:49 _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 12:09:59 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:12:29 -!- Abezethibou [~user@212.253.222.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:18:30 -!- rfg [~rfg@client-86-25-217-99.glw-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has quit [Quit: rfg] 12:18:45 Guthur: the NFS server by Franz must have XDR code 12:20:26 I suppose so, I'll probably consider another alternative 12:20:49 http://github.com/franzinc/nfs/blob/master//xdr.cl 12:20:57 testeroff [~user@95.130.133.98] has joined #lisp 12:21:24 oh, cheers lichtblau 12:24:12 jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-158.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:24:58 I'm also thinking of combining XML and JSON, not sure how worthwhile it would be though 12:25:11 Sbidicuda [~antani@host209-237-dynamic.20-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 12:28:39 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 12:30:43 N-14 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 12:30:43 -!- N-14 is now known as bgs100 12:30:43 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:30:56 timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-70-251.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 12:31:16 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 12:32:19 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-117-99.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:33:51 -!- pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-242.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo_] 12:34:18 -!- testeroff [~user@95.130.133.98] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:35:44 execve [~execve@ppp-81-25-57-185.ultranet.ru] has joined #lisp 12:35:44 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:36:24 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 12:38:56 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:39:35 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 12:40:38 I just got Heap exhausted during garbage collection: 88 bytes available, 152 requested. 12:44:11 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 12:44:30 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:45:14 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 12:45:56 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:46:26 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 12:50:40 -!- Jubb [~ghost@129.21.86.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:54:57 -!- Sbidicuda [~antani@host209-237-dynamic.20-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:55:27 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:55:51 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 12:55:51 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:56:32 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 12:59:30 Guthur, wouldn't it be nice to have a parser that snarfs any of xml, json, ... ? I was thinking of making that for a while. 12:59:53 Don't really have a use for it right now though. 13:00:26 Jubb [~ghost@129.21.86.99] has joined #lisp 13:02:18 Wondering - from a lisper perspective, for someone versed in CL/lisps/macros. . . . what/is there anything profound that can be learned from Perl, or from material such as "higher-order-perl"? For someone not actually planning on using the language per se, are there still lessons to take from it? 13:02:25 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 13:02:51 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:03:29 From the foreword, you can learn that the CL community is full of awful, awful people. 13:03:49 -!- daniel__ is now known as daniel 13:04:13 Xach: That sort of thing is obvious. I mean programming-specifics. 13:04:19 Modius: there are some insightful posts on LtU if you dig 13:05:21 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:05:40 -!- execve [~execve@ppp-81-25-57-185.ultranet.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:06:11 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 13:07:23 -!- Jubb [~ghost@129.21.86.99] has quit [Quit: Jubb] 13:08:24 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:09:10 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-64-102.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:09:32 urandom__ [~user@p548A4376.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:10:01 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:10:21 timor [~timor@port-92-195-75-86.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 13:10:22 aes_, Having discrete parsers isn't too bad either, one super parser might be a little fat 13:10:42 There is decent CL solutions for both XML and JSON 13:10:48 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 13:11:04 Sure, but it'd be easy to drive. 13:11:18 -!- timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-70-251.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:11:40 Also, be next problem is, how do you smooth over the little differences? 13:11:52 SBCL User Survey: http://random-state.net/sbcl-survey-2010.html 13:12:41 (also, you forgot at least bencode, yaml) 13:13:05 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:13:15 aes_, Indeed I had 13:13:31 (oh, and unpacking from url, base64, hex, puny, ...) 13:13:54 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 13:14:26 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@65.242.219.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:14:42 Anyway, the idea i was having, was to build a thing that attempts to understand what can be interpreted from a string. So if the xml has json inside, you parse that too. 13:16:54 Would be nice if it worked that seamlessly 13:17:50 I'm just looking for something to facilitate a data full messaging system 13:19:42 just in your world, or to talk to strangers? 13:20:27 I am getting "Heap exhausted during garbage collection" errors while trying to create big hashtables, is this can be result of calling setf on the same hashtable variable ? 13:20:28 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:21:00 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 13:21:31 -!- salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:21:51 aes_, Most my world, its actually not a live project, more a training thing 13:22:31 we are using JMS and Jboss at the moment, but I'm getting carried away and thinking of switching to 0MQ 13:22:58 kushal: it most probably is a result of you allocating too much 13:23:24 I can't help but think that questions 9 and 10 are a trap. "I'm currently using SBCL 0.9.1.2, and I'm updating my SBCL monthly". 13:23:26 cmm, is there any limitation of size of memory sbcl can use ? 13:23:28 We have another 4 weeks left and I'm the tech architect for my team so it is kind of my call. 13:23:37 kushal: if you use sbcl, try giving a bigger value to the --dynamic-space-size command-line parameter 13:23:54 that is, yes :) 13:24:06 Guthur, yeah, sorry, I don't have any guidance 13:24:07 ok :) 13:24:46 salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 13:25:03 no handshake, bah 13:25:03 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:25:06 lol 13:25:11 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:25:41 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 13:25:41 lichtblau: you cynic you 13:25:44 (url-gateway-method (quote "tls")) and i wonder why i can't get to the clhs or hyperspec 13:25:49 aes_, Oh no problem, just giving some background. It would be interesting to delve deeper into the subject, but time constraints means I will probably grab so out of the box solution rather than roll one 13:26:03 s/so/some 13:27:11 nikodemus: I think it would help to extend the contrib question a bit. There are lots of contribs that I use only because they are dependencies of libraries I need. Is this question about contribs I use intentionally? About contribs I use because I like them? About contribs I hate but still have to use? Do I have to research what contribs my SBCL happens to have loaded without my knowledge? 13:27:48 Perhaps there should be checkboxes "[x] I don't know -- whatever contribs SLIME depends on" and "[x] whatever contribs hunchentoot depends on", ... etc. 13:28:10 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:28:42 dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 13:28:53 -!- pierrep [~ppasteau@bas1-montreal43-2925257677.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:28:53 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:29:09 E.g., I've just checked sb-bsd-sockets, because I know it's loaded, but I wouldn't want to load it myself. 13:29:44 And ISTR it has dependencies on things like sb-posix and sb-grovel, but I didn't check those because I don't care about them. 13:29:46 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 13:30:55 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-28-157.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:32:17 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-26-150.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:32:41 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 13:32:56 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:33:51 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 13:34:09 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:34:32 (I'm new to serious lisp.) I'm loading ASDF in clisp on a debian box. I get a ton of warnings. wtf? 13:34:46 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 13:34:57 what kind of warnings? 13:35:19 WARNING: Replacing method #)> 13:35:23 like that 13:35:23 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:35:28 lichtblau: i'll clarify the question 13:35:55 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 13:36:01 aes_: you can ignore them. 13:36:25 it would be nice if the authors would correct the sources to avoid them, but they're benign. 13:36:29 How? (misunderstand me correctly.. please?) 13:36:56 Is there a way to silence it? 13:37:12 now it read "What SBCL contribs do you intentionally use? " 13:37:12 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:37:12 Yes. But I don't know it off hand. 13:37:43 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 13:37:46 pjb, lol, yeah. thanks. 13:39:14 aes_: well, first, here it doesn't occur. Perhaps you are loading asdf.lisp twice? 13:39:21 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:39:25 aes_: otherwise you may try: (handler-bind ((warning (function muffle-warning))) (load "asdf.lisp")) 13:39:57 Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 13:39:57 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 13:39:59 Ehm, not that I know of. Interesting question, though. 1s 13:40:01 i guess asdf is already loaded in clisp on debian 13:40:19 Why, yes, it is loaded already. 13:41:24 Also, the muffler worked. 13:41:30 aes_: check if it's in the image with: clisp -norc -q -x '(find-package "ASDF")' 13:41:37 Nice. 13:41:38 Here it prints NIL. 13:42:11 Oh, I just wrote asdf^I^I and it asked if I wanted to see 123 possibilities... 13:42:15 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-23-166.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:42:28 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:42:46 But sure, your way is neater: "#" 13:42:47 Yes, but it may be loaded from your ~/.clisprc 13:43:02 Ok, so it's in the image installed by debian. 13:43:06 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 13:43:10 gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.230.177] has joined #lisp 13:43:24 nope, that's where I was working, so I added that, then commented it out, it's not that. 13:43:39 prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-38-199.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 13:43:48 It seems to be standard in debian for clisp + asdf. 13:43:48 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:43:59 antoni [~user@237.pool85-53-6.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 13:43:59 I would advise you to use: (unless (find-package "ADSF") (load "asdf.lisp")) to load it when you're not running debian... 13:44:09 That said, it's probable next version of clisp will include asdf2. 13:44:19 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 13:44:26 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-2-127.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 13:44:30 francogrex [~user@109.130.149.206] has joined #lisp 13:44:51 SBCL is dominating all other lisp implementations 13:44:53 is there any forceful way to trigger garbage collection in sbcl ? 13:45:22 francogrex: not here. 13:45:24 sb-ext:gc 13:45:28 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-134-26-130.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Disconnected by services] 13:45:28 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-58-246.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 13:45:29 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 13:45:30 How to print leading zeros on a number with Format function ? 13:45:53 (format t "~8,'0D" 42) 13:45:57 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:46:10 The trick is that characters in format specifiers must be prefixed by a quote... 13:46:11 ok 13:46:12 ok 13:46:14 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 13:46:29 *francogrex* to pjb: dominating most. I shed tears for ecl, i predict it will die soon. 13:46:33 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 13:47:04 i hope it won't 13:47:17 *francogrex* hopes too 13:47:38 francogrex: not a chance. ecl is rather nice. 13:47:51 francogrex: being able to generate libraries usable from other languages is great. 13:47:51 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:47:56 rfg [~rfg@client-86-25-217-99.glw-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:02 timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-116-55.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 13:48:21 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 13:48:36 it's very nice I totally agree, but compare the developement success. really, sbcl rules objectively... 13:49:08 something "dies" when there's not enough interest in keeping it "alive", which does not necesserily follow from there being "more" interest in keeping "competing" things "alive" 13:49:18 timack [~tim@hlfx47-137.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 13:49:30 Well, what you mean is that sbcl is the implementation that gets most of the contributions. 13:49:39 ecl since the last versions in 2008, all you have is bugs; sbcl since 2008 all you have is exponential developement, easse of use etc... it's just a reality 13:49:47 pjb yes 13:50:01 francogrex: what are you talking about? I'm using an ecl from 2010-07! 13:50:08 And there's new patches in the CVS. 13:50:22 by francogrex's logic, lisp should have been "dead" for like 20 years 13:50:29 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-75-86.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:51:13 -!- GilbertErik [~GilbertEr@user-0ccsi5d.cable.mindspring.com] has left #lisp 13:52:16 pjb: most likely not fully; are you using cffi, or other libs... 13:52:46 cmm: lisp never really died/dies, development was always active and succesful 13:53:03 not the same argument 13:53:24 I filed a blocker bug two days ago. No response. I hope it won't be hard to port my stuff from sbcl to ecl when they fix it. 13:53:42 francogrex: I don't see how it is not the same argument 13:54:24 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:54:57 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 13:55:20 cmm: see: did lisp not evolve by many ways espoecially the ansi standards etc... it was always uphill 13:55:36 not sharp but uphill 13:55:42 constantly 13:56:15 and ecl is being actively developed (not as actively as sbcl, apparently, but I'm dealing in absolutes here) 13:56:28 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:56:46 dreish [~dreish@2002:cf8a:2fad:0:21f:5bff:fe35:ae0d] has joined #lisp 13:56:55 naryl: ecl needs help with development. I fixed a few bugs some time ago relating to building static etc... but then in each new release the bugs were re-introduced again... 13:56:59 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 13:57:28 keep fixing them instead of whining on IRC 13:57:30 cmm: I don't agree. It's trying to keep up with sbcl but failing miserablly 13:57:39 -!- prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-38-199.xnet.hr] has left #lisp 13:57:40 SBCL has its own share of bugs 13:58:02 i don't think ecl is trying to "keep up with sbcl" -- the project goals seem substantially different 13:58:04 francogrex: yes, I'm using cffi and even iolib. 13:58:24 You don't know what you are talki,ng about. I fix them send patches, they are ignored... 13:59:06 pjb: you know from the last discussion then that for example ecl-cffi has a serious bug 13:59:18 francogrex: i have the opposite experience 13:59:54 stassats: good for you, it's not the same case here or for others 14:00:05 francogrex: are you talking on https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/ecls-list ? 14:00:05 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:00:34 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 14:00:51 pjb: yes yes. I had sent also directly to the maintainer and we discussed at length... to no avail. anyway 14:01:15 that doesn't sound like "ingored" 14:01:20 we fix one thing, a new realease is out, all is unfixed again... 14:01:44 maybe not ignored but forgotten/neglected whatever 14:02:20 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:02:39 Wnat is your email? I don't trace you on ecls-list. 14:02:52 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 14:03:39 pjb: it's my nickname, but I communicated directly with juanjo: 1) about building static ecl, 2) cffi errors... 14:03:40 sound like a process/infrastructure problem. those are usually fixed by stepping up to do the nesessary setup/work or forking. not, alas, by conversing with random people on irc :) 14:04:14 it'snot random. It's the guy who maintains it 14:04:14 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:04:45 pjb is not Juanjo, last I checked :) 14:04:55 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:04:58 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 14:05:04 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:05:11 yeah 14:05:12 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:05:25 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 14:05:29 francogrex: since you didn't do in public, we cannot really judge... Try to use ecls-list more. 14:05:57 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 14:06:10 pjb: you should be able to find a few emails from me 14:06:20 publicly 14:08:16 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:09:04 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 14:10:52 davazp [~user@103.Red-88-8-226.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:12:16 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:13:11 btw, i don't know what did i do wrong with unix-options last time but it works and has the most convenient API compared to other argument parsers 14:13:20 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:13:55 naryl: ? 14:14:09 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 14:14:35 i wrongfully accused unix-options of being broken a few days ago :) 14:14:44 why do you think you did something "wrong"? 14:14:58 what options did you sue? 14:15:04 use, sorry 14:15:32 i didn't commit the broken code. It works now, nm. 14:16:22 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:17:16 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 14:18:59 -!- nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:19:06 nikodemus: keeping up in terms of displaying activity: frequency of releases 14:19:56 we talked about these things some time ago, among us was one of abcl developers 14:20:31 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 14:23:52 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:24:13 back 14:24:24 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 14:27:05 -!- timack [~tim@hlfx47-137.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:27:32 c|mell [~cmell@LLagny-156-36-9-136.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:28:58 timor [~timor@port-92-195-86-74.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 14:29:21 timack [~tim@hlfx57-2b-34.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 14:29:33 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 14:31:19 -!- timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-116-55.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:35:31 nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 14:38:45 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.82.79.57] has joined #lisp 14:38:46 -!- c|mell [~cmell@LLagny-156-36-9-136.w80-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:39:56 pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-242.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:42:43 gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:42:51 LiamH [~nobody@pool-141-156-214-211.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:45:56 salva_ [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 14:49:44 -!- salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:49:44 -!- salva_ is now known as salva 14:50:58 -!- timack [~tim@hlfx57-2b-34.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:53:06 timack [~tim@hlfx50-2-142177100207.ppp-dynamic.dial.ns.bellaliant.net] has joined #lisp 14:53:40 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:54:12 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.149.206] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:56:16 killown [~killown@unaffiliated/killown] has joined #lisp 14:56:22 -!- killown [~killown@unaffiliated/killown] has left #lisp 14:56:59 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-24-28-30-165.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: I'm big in Japan] 15:03:11 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 15:05:56 -!- Ppjet6 [~ppjet@ALille-256-1-33-235.w90-18.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:06:53 Damn. How annoying that DESTRUCTURING-BIND doesn't allow the use of NIL for values you're not interested in like LOOP FOR patterns do. I can hardly think of a scenario where you'd want NIL in a pattern to mean "this must be an empty list", while it happens very often that I want to ignore something in a pattern. 15:08:11 I don't even know how to emulate NIL-as-ignore short of declaring a dummy variable and ignoring it. That's annoying, especially if there are multiple ignored variables in a pattern. 15:09:30 Get used to it 15:10:14 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@118.71.132.157] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:10:18 I REFUSE. I will write the trivial destructuring-bind* macro which supports NIL-as-ignore. 15:10:20 or don't use lists as a substitute for data-structures 15:10:34 Hexstream: Try. It's not easy 15:11:08 Might make more sense to checkout what BIND does, or some of the pattern matching libraries 15:11:19 i rarely use d-b at all 15:11:22 Uh? Am I missing something? You just expand to a normal DESTRUCTURING-BIND but you sift through the pattern and replace NILs with a gensym and then generate an ignore for it... 15:11:59 stassats: That's because you use LOOP, probably. 15:12:14 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-86-74.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:12:33 i use loop, but don't abuse destructing there either 15:13:13 Hexstream: What if you want to initialize an &optional or &key to NIL? 15:13:28 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:13:28 You don't. 15:14:01 Well, I do 15:14:07 At least in the first version of DESTRUCTURING-BIND*. I never encountered that scenario so far so I can live with it. And if I support that feature eventually it will be backwards-compatible... 15:14:46 Seriously use a pattern matching library instead, sounds like that's what you're trying to use destructuring-bind for anyway 15:15:19 I don't like bringing in huge dependencies just to use one little feature. 15:15:20 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 15:15:32 Get used to it, too :-) 15:15:46 NEVERRRRR. 15:16:07 how about :_ to ignore? 15:16:32 It doesn't change the problem :-) 15:16:50 just makes the edge case even more unlikely 15:17:45 aren't &-symbols reserved for such cases? 15:18:07 & aren't reserved 15:20:53 kushal [~kdas@114.143.165.123] has joined #lisp 15:20:53 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.165.123] has quit [Changing host] 15:20:53 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 15:25:10 at which point is it a huge dependency? 15:25:20 lots of libraries really aren't that big 15:26:35 timor [~timor@port-92-195-64-69.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 15:26:48 Well, it depends. If you bring in a medium-sized dependency to use one tiny little feature of it that really doesn't require all the rest of the library to implement, I would call that a "huge" dependency. 15:29:06 pattern matching libraries are usually exactly one file. 15:29:25 Sbcl should come with one in a contrib, 'd <3 15:29:39 tcr: ah, but which one? ;) 15:29:48 khuongware's good they say 15:29:50 the best one of course 15:30:46 tcr: not sure I want somethig that extensible in a contrib. I would expect contribs to do one things but very well. 15:31:27 Why not? 15:32:24 thinking of it  SBCL does not come with many extensible interfaces 15:32:28 It's complex, and only hand-wavingly proved correct? What kind of test suite do you write for such a free-form framework? 15:32:36 MOP, ext sequences, that's pretty much it? 15:32:42 isn't quicklisp supposed to convert all of you dependency-fearing heathens anyway? 15:33:16 daniel___ [~daniel@p5082A236.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:33:26 The conversion doesn't official start until next weekend 15:33:28 pkhuong: You test the primary interface 15:33:45 cmm: yes, but it won't convert us multiMB-binary-fearing heathens ;) 15:33:52 It will alleviate much of the problems with dependencies, to be sure. I'm already a convert. 15:34:08 fearing large executives probably excludes you from working in CL. ;) 15:34:24 naryl: get on with the times! 15:34:52 i guess we'll eventually grow a tree-shaker, if it's a problem in practice. 15:35:04 i used to think it was, but now I'm pretty sure it isn't. 15:35:12 Fade: CL has a large executive? who is it? :) 15:35:31 some people don't want 100MB of mono on their PCs. And what can I suggest? Three 30MB sbcl applications? 15:35:33 Fade: no, I hope we'll approach the problem from the other side, deciding more carefully what to load in an empty core. 15:35:39 CL is tiny by modern standards, anyway 15:35:40 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 15:35:58 naryl: you can compress them if that's all you're worried about. 15:35:58 -!- peterbb [~peterbb@s22-00036.dsl.no.powertech.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:36:00 pkhuong: I'd be content with either approach. 15:36:03 naryl: suggest 500MB Java apps. 15:36:07 yes :) 15:36:36 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082A652.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:37:08 gzexe reduced sbcl binaries to 8MB, upx breaks them. 15:37:10 *Guthur* has been using java and maven2 with a number of huge dependencies 15:37:13 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-158.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:37:18 first build can take quite some time 15:37:48 even with a fast connection 15:38:28 i've been working so much in lisp for so long that the last time I had to use a language with an outboard compiler, I felt a little bit like a modern human having dinner with neanderthal man. 15:38:51 Fade: some people think it's the other way around 15:39:07 *Fade* chuckles 15:39:12 true :) 15:39:34 also, the modern man won't feel anything for long in such situation 15:40:02 After wrestling with maven for a number of days such arguments lost a lot of weight in my eyes 15:40:26 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-217-149.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:40:31 i don't know very much about maven.. the last time I had to target a java vm, I wrote in clojure. 15:41:03 Maybe it was just me, I actually even had minor issue with rubygems 15:41:39 Xach: So quicklisp's official release is next weekend, I heard?... 15:42:00 Hexstream: there will be a public beta then, where there are no hoops through which to jump to try it. 15:42:49 Nice. I can't wait. I predict overwhelming uptake :D 15:42:55 Fade, it's not too bad once you get it going, it's like any significantly complex technology, there is always that initial learning curve 15:44:52 I'm constantly missing CL while I work in Java 15:45:21 Guthur: build your actual functionality in CL; integrate it with Java: ABCL 15:46:52 ehu, I have been considering that for awhile, but to be honest getting access in work is troublesome, they are rather picky about what they allow on the PC's 15:47:15 I probably can sneak ABCL in under the radar 15:47:32 Guthur: they don't allow you to select your libraries? 15:47:50 It's a bank, I need permission to fart 15:47:56 ah. 15:48:06 I know the feeling. 15:48:38 Fortunately, I wasn't in the IT department, but the department choosing the solution. They just wanted something that worked. 15:48:41 I created that. 15:48:42 looks slike we need a CL->Java translator^Wcompiler 15:48:46 (with abcl) 15:49:06 naryl: that's what abcl is. CL->Java byte code translator 15:49:10 compiler 15:49:14 whatever 15:49:24 i mean CL->editable-Java-source 15:49:25 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:49:35 naryl: that exists too. 15:49:40 but not in abcl 15:49:41 naryl: there was a project like that to a CL-like language 15:49:58 I never saw a public release of it, though. 15:50:33 Linj was the name, I believe 15:50:40 or maybe Jnil 15:51:02 I will definitely be trying to sneak CL in somewhere if I can 15:51:18 But not having my emacs environment will be painful 15:51:39 -!- antoni [~user@237.pool85-53-6.dynamic.orange.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:51:48 ah. I used emacs, to create the cl, yes. 15:51:50 Sneaking in emacs would be like trying to bring home an elephant 15:52:38 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-64-69.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:52:43 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.23.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:52:50 Modius [~Modius@cpe-24-28-30-165.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:52:58 Well maybe not, but they do apparently get rather touchy about unauthorized executables 15:53:00 timor [~timor@port-92-195-115-42.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 15:53:22 pkhuong: If you've made a pattern-matching library, I don't find it on http://www.cliki.net/pattern%20matching ... 15:54:17 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.23.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 15:54:26 Very possible. It's at . 15:56:01 nice domain name. :) 15:56:06 Xach: did you succeed in building abcl from svn? 15:56:42 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:57:52 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@62.252.217.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 15:59:07 pkhuong: discontinuity.info doesn't seem to canonicalize to discontinuity.info or www.discontinuity.info consistently... Compare: http://discontinuity.info/~pkhuong/lisp.html http://www.discontinuity.info/~bvowk/ 15:59:36 -!- davazp [~user@103.Red-88-8-226.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:00:11 where's the problem? Both work. 16:00:28 syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-217-76.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 16:01:02 pkhuong: you need to add a .asd so xach can add it to quicklisp :) 16:01:27 nikodemus: I'm not sure I *want* to support that ;) 16:02:03 boy... building abcl from source really takes some time. 16:02:39 Hum. If you feel that way... The no-www/www canonicalisation best practice is something I see no downside to and I think it's unusual and annoying when sites don't do it, but hey, your call. 16:02:44 support is overrated 16:03:08 nikodemus: no need! quicklisp has a hack to support single-file .lisp files. it adds an .asd and a README. 16:03:14 nikodemus: that's how string-case is in there. 16:03:38 whee! 16:03:43 Hexstream: I'm just an user. 16:03:47 Fade: 6 minutes on my machine. 16:03:53 so now you can add xt-pattern :) 16:03:54 Fade: how many on yours? 16:04:04 Total time: 3 minutes 7 seconds 16:04:16 kids these days 16:04:27 Fade: you think that's a lot? 16:04:44 pkhuong: Ah, seeing there are only 3 users (apparently), I thought it was a 3-team thing where you're jointly administrating the site... Nevermind then. 16:05:00 subjectively, compared to my day to day 'compile it' deal, it's a lot. 16:05:00 ehu: i was able to build 16:05:01 Hexstream: I leave admining to professional sysadmins. 16:05:03 sbcl takes more. 16:05:24 but I do that once a month at most 16:05:25 :) 16:05:42 "here's a nickel..." 16:06:16 Fade: I have a build that spends more than 1 minute in linking... 16:06:41 Fade: so, then I must be missing your point: SBCL takes *a lot* more, in my machines. 16:06:57 Fade: so, 3 minutes is really no time at all, right? 16:07:06 no, it's true. 16:07:21 I guess it's just the largest java program I've ever had to build. 16:07:39 most of those 3 minutes aren't spent building Java. 16:07:55 most of it is compiling actual CL into classes and loading those. 16:08:29 ABCL writes byte code directly; no intermediate invocations of javac or anything. 16:08:37 on unix, is the abcl convention to build and then leave the source on the path where you built it? 16:09:18 well, I do. But there's no need. as long as you leave edit the ./abcl script to point to the new location of abcl.jar. 16:09:23 ah. the instructions for *nix are below the windows instructions. 16:10:11 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-87-127.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:10:15 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 16:11:54 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 16:12:38 is abcl's CLOS implementation complete? 16:12:56 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-217-76.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 16:12:56 syamajal_ [~syamajala@68-187-217-76.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 16:13:22 hrmn. hunchentoot fails in bordeaux-threads. 16:13:28 zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:36 Fade: the thing that I know is missing will be added this month: DEFINE-METHOD-COMBINATION (long form) 16:13:40 closer-mop explodes pretty nicely. 16:13:53 Fade: closer-mop wants more than just CLOS. 16:13:57 it wants MOP. 16:13:59 yeah 16:14:14 Unfortunately, I can't claim MOP support (yet) 16:14:19 but MOP is part of CLOS, no? 16:14:24 no. 16:14:26 :-) 16:14:32 CLOS is part of CLHS 16:14:38 but MOP is not part of CLOS 16:14:56 I have AMOP here in order to start implementing a MOP 16:14:58 but... 16:15:04 it's not there yet. 16:15:25 *nod* 16:16:10 anyway, if you stay away from MOP, I believe ABCL is holding up quite well these days. And improving. 16:16:36 So, if you have stuff you want to run but can't: please report so we can add it to our list of "stuff to do/ stuff to fix" 16:16:40 well, judging by the echoed news on planet.lisp, it's definitely moving fast. 16:16:43 btw: closer is already on that list. 16:16:52 cool 16:17:04 Is there anything that can be done in terms of being able to save images in ABCL? It's been a while, admittedly, since I've followed it. 16:17:17 -!- KB [b@c-cfcee253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:17:22 KB [~b@c-cfcee253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 16:17:23 It seemed (correct me if I'm wrong) that you had to load in fasls or script to boostrap an app. 16:19:00 ehu: is bordeaux-threads on your list already? 16:19:14 ehu, how many are working on ABCL 16:19:54 -!- redline6561 [~redline@216-177-174-170.block0.gvtc.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:20:18 Fade: yes. Actually, it already worked, but it was broken by symbols having moved packages 16:20:25 Fade: fe[nl]ix fixed that last night, i believe 16:20:53 ahh 16:20:58 Guthur: that differs: 3 or 4 core; with at least another 8 people reporting issues. 16:21:00 I haven't updated my quicklisp in a couple of days. 16:21:14 Fade: ql doesn't have the new b-t yet 16:21:18 Guthur: we need more of both categories. 16:21:21 *Fade* nods 16:21:27 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-58-246.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:21:58 ehu, If I ever have issues will be sure to forward them to you guys 16:23:05 syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-217-76.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 16:23:22 I tend to use SBCL at home, but if do get some going at work targeting the JVM would probably be a wise choice 16:23:27 -!- syamajal_ [~syamajala@68-187-217-76.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:23:58 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441568.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: hugod] 16:27:15 -!- daniel___ is now known as daniel 16:28:57 tsuru [~charlie@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:37:13 -!- timack [~tim@hlfx50-2-142177100207.ppp-dynamic.dial.ns.bellaliant.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:37:27 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 16:38:22 nikodemus: re: your survey, i kinda wanted to check both "i get the binary from sbcl.org" and "i build from cvs/git", because i do one and then the other. 16:38:53 sbcl from package manager builds sbcl from cvs. 16:39:01 around my shop at any rate. 16:39:07 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-115-42.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:39:27 peterbb [~peterbb@s22-00036.dsl.no.powertech.net] has joined #lisp 16:40:06 Pavitra [~pavitra@76-76-236-67.lisco.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:54 *stassats* bootstraps sbcl from 1.0.23.12 16:42:58 old and proven 16:43:48 Kaer [~b@c-cfcee253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 16:44:06 I build from 1.0.28 on one machine, 1.0.23 on another, and 1.0.35 in a chroot. 16:44:11 most of our targets are running lenny, so we're bootstrapping with sbcl 1.0.18 16:44:52 In two cases, this is from a binary on sbcl.org, and in one case it's from an old build I did ages back. 16:45:57 -!- KB [~b@c-cfcee253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:47:29 kclifton [~kclifton@s198-166-45-245.ab.hsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 16:51:48 i shouldn't have upgraded from 1.0.13.x to 1.0.23.x, 1.0.13 was more vintage 16:52:03 1.0.13 is lucky 16:52:18 Meh. You want vintage, find an 0.8.x release. 16:52:58 timor [~timor@port-92-195-15-111.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 16:53:22 srolls [~user@c-76-126-221-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:55:06 pierrep [~ppasteau@bas1-montreal43-2925255560.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 16:57:46 dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:58:57 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-217-76.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:02:01 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:02:13 -!- dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:04:20 deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 17:06:02 BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@88.116.134.106] has joined #lisp 17:06:32 -!- BrandLeeJones [~BrandLeeJ@88.116.134.106] has quit [Client Quit] 17:10:14 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-58-246.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 17:10:47 that's amazing, cmucl won't come out of gc'ing the hell out of (sum 100000000), sum being (defun sum (n) ((let s 0)) (dotimes (i n s) (incf s i)))) 17:10:58 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.230.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:11:03 whereas sbcl has no problems with it... 17:11:55 homie: I bet your sbcl is 64 bit while cmucl is 32 bit. 17:12:07 it's the latest version of cmucl-20b-pre2 with base and extra packages compiled on lorien 17:12:18 oh 17:12:18 I'm using breakpoints in AllegroCL, I'm trying to do :continue 0 to return from a break and keep the program running, but I just get "there are no restarts" 17:12:22 anyone know how to fix? 17:12:58 -!- pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-242.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo_] 17:13:44 pkhuong: is it listed somewhere in the features or so if it is x64 or not ? 17:13:59 homie: you can (integer-length most-positive-fixnum). 17:14:34 i got 20 17:14:38 err 29 17:14:55 that'd be a 32 bit build for cmucl or sbcl. 17:15:16 yes and sbcl seems to be also 32 bit build 17:15:34 homie: did you try compiling it? 17:15:34 so i wonder why the one is kept in a gc cycle, and the other not ? 17:16:02 kingless [~user@adsl-242-215-95.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 17:16:13 Default optimization policy and modular arithmetic? 17:16:14 OliverUv: asking on acl help mailing list is likely to be the fastest way to find out 17:16:15 i have my own version of cmucl compiled but not installed, due to the contrib packages not building..., but maybe i'll go without the contribs 17:16:22 brb 17:16:25 homie: did you try compiling your function? 17:16:37 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:06 dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:16 nikodemus: ah, I wasn't really aware that there was one. I'll check it out. Thanks! 17:17:45 OliverUv: well, whatever their official support channel is :) 17:17:53 *Xach* remembers when he first tried sbcl and marveled at how much faster it was than cmucl, not realizing sbcl compiles everything by default and cmucl does not 17:18:01 -!- Kaer [~b@c-cfcee253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:18:02 i know there is *one*, but i may be confused as to what it is 17:18:11 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-65-223.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:18:31 quick newbie question about CLOS 17:19:12 does the :initform form run every time make-instance runs if :allocation is :class ? 17:20:47 adeht: did you try inproc messaging with cl-zmq? 17:21:28 I'm getting a connection refused, but I have investigated to deeply yet so the fix may be simple....or maybe not 17:23:12 -!- aurelien [~uncle@fsf/member/aurelien] has left #lisp 17:24:43 kingless: only the first time an instance of the class is created 17:24:55 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:25:23 Guthur: paste the code 17:25:24 nikodemus: I was kind of hoping that antifuchs would answer, last time I emailed support@franz.com he got the ticket and answered me on IRC :p 17:25:25 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:25:25 nikodemus: thanks, so I thought. 17:25:48 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 17:26:39 timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-11-178.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 17:27:53 Bronsa [~bronsa@host189-191-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:29:32 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-15-111.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:30:30 OliverUv: heh 17:31:03 OliverUv: i'm pretty sure franz prefers to get tickets instead of irc queries :) 17:31:45 not for stuff like "HOW DO I DEBUG PLZ HELP" 17:31:47 idk 17:31:48 maybe 17:32:01 but I solved my problems now anyway :) 17:33:37 -!- pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:34:15 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 17:35:11 OliverUv: don't you think the answer to that is "buy one of our courses"? 17:35:54 fatblueduck [~user@pool-71-104-155-233.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:02 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-217-149.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:37:27 ehu: depends 17:37:57 but not really, now I was just looking for the reason I get that message when trying to follow a continuation after break 17:38:33 dametri [~psykoTRON@c-98-244-33-187.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:55 Guthur: I think a common error for inproc is to connect before binding 17:41:27 ProG4mr [~tiagolr88@a85-138-35-57.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 17:41:32 hi 17:42:26 im starting out on lisp and ive been struggling for hours 17:42:42 to compile an run a project using AllegroCl 17:43:31 cant find out how to run an application to display simple console lines 17:43:36 ProG4mr: a project of yours? 17:43:40 sure 17:44:05 Just: (load"my-pgm.lisp") and then type: (my-function) 17:44:11 adeht, oh possibly 17:44:32 ummm 17:44:37 ProG4mr: When you're starting out, you don't need to generate a stand alone application. Just use alisp (or mlisp) from a terminal. 17:44:51 alisp? 17:44:52 lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 17:45:00 Yes. 17:45:15 well its for university they say they will use Clisp to test our project 17:45:28 then use clisp to develop it. 17:45:43 ProG4mr: yes, why do you want to use AllegroCL if you'er asked to use clisp? 17:45:44 problem is i like AllegroCl because its easy to develop there 17:45:54 is it? 17:45:57 they sugested it aswell 17:46:16 my head hurts 17:46:19 if it's easy, why do you have problems? 17:46:37 using allegro i cant test the aplication 17:46:53 i have the debugger window, works fine 17:47:09 ProG4mr: unfortunately, I never used the GUI of allegro. Only the equivalent of clisp, the raw terminal REPL. 17:47:28 At most, I used alisp (like clisp) with inferior-lisp in emacs. 17:47:39 do you know the basics? 17:47:43 adeht, ye it was silly mistake on my part 17:47:49 how to compile and run a project on clisp? 17:47:51 adeht, cheers 17:47:54 ProG4mr: have a look at: http://www.cliki.net/TutorialClispDebugger 17:48:09 tkx 17:48:16 ProG4mr: it's exactly the same with clisp and with alisp: (load"your-program.lisp") (your-function) 17:48:21 ProG4mr: what book are you using in this course? 17:48:31 moment 17:48:35 ProG4mr: the only difference are the debugging command, they're not invoked by the same strings. 17:49:19 Artificial Intelligence: A Modern Approach , Stuart Russel and Peter Norvig, 2003, Prentice Hall 17:49:39 then there is second bibliografy 17:49:51 with clisp books 17:49:55 no time for those 17:50:49 ok pjb, the (load"program.lisp") will work for now i guess 17:51:21 ProG4mr: when you're fine with that, you may switch to emacs and M-x inferior-lisp. 17:51:39 ok but 17:51:52 i use vim normally 17:51:57 ProG4mr: how much time does it take to evaluate the (myfunction) call? 17:52:05 ProG4mr: it's never too late. 17:52:13 hahah 17:52:33 ProG4mr: any idea? 17:52:41 you dont get it :P i find vim much better than emacs 17:52:49 sbcl is supposed to be quite good, right? Ok, so how come I get a 56MB binary that does nothing? 17:52:53 ProG4mr: that's curable 17:53:00 lol 17:53:12 ProG4mr: I used vi too when I was young. Lost time a lot of time on other stuff too. 17:53:14 damn cientists 17:53:22 aes_: you get that binary for free 17:53:32 huh? 17:53:49 and it doesn't do nothing, it's a full-blown CL 17:53:54 ProG4mr: any idea how long the evaluation of (myfunction) [ie your function] takes? 17:54:01 well 17:54:01 I got it from sb-ext:save-lisp-and-die 17:54:14 probably less that 1 microsecond 17:54:18 -!- kingless [~user@adsl-242-215-95.rmo.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:54:30 ProG4mr: then why do you want to compile? 17:54:47 ummm dunno 17:54:51 And it's supposed to do (start ...) to an aserve app that's *really* simple. 17:54:55 im used to other languages 17:55:08 i dont need to compile indeed 17:55:13 Losing 10 seconds of your life to let the computer avoid less than 1 microsecond of work? 17:55:19 ProG4mr: what are the deliverables? 17:55:22 aes: did you pass a toplevel argument? 17:55:35 ("load" program.lisp) works just fine 17:55:45 (load "program.lisp") you mean. 17:55:49 tsuru: ? what the variables? 17:55:51 "load" is not a function ,it's a string! 17:55:56 yes. A defun that takes (&rest r) and just does the (start ..) thing 17:56:22 ProG4mr: what do you have to deliver to the professor? I'm hoping it's just the source file... 17:56:26 damn i better go eat before im called a n00b :P 17:56:37 oh 17:56:49 nothing yet 17:57:14 aes: aes: so what do you mean by "does nothing"? 17:57:25 just making reflex - agents we learned last class on my own 17:57:25 ProG4mr: food won't make you a pro! 17:57:38 my head hurts 17:57:48 is there a method to kill threads 17:57:53 adeht, returns almost immediately. (It's supposed to serve http...) 17:57:59 Guthur: where? 17:58:04 ProG4mr: you might want to supplement your course's book with PCL 17:58:06 SBCL is the implementation 17:58:07 struggling with IDE's and lack of (ALL BEGGINNERS TUTORIAL) 17:58:22 minion: PCL 17:58:22 PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 17:58:31 stassats, Some of the ones returned by (bt:all-threads) 17:58:33 aes: does START block, or does it just start another thread? 17:58:42 got that on my secondary bibliography 17:58:49 Guthur: bt:destroy-thread 17:59:09 doh 17:59:10 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:59:15 stassats, cheers 17:59:18 adeht, good question. I just assumed it blocked because it didn't seem to give me my prompt back in interactive. 17:59:18 ProG4mr: if you need something even more basic there is gentle intro... 17:59:23 minion: gentle 17:59:23 gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 17:59:27 but ill mostly learn from the "learn by learning asking and copying" book 17:59:40 lol 17:59:40 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:59:43 Guthur: but if you're using slime, you can observe threads with M-x slime-list-threads and kill with k 17:59:45 learn by doing i mean 18:00:15 Aha! 100 points for adeht! 18:00:31 ProG4mr: you don't have copy/paste in your skillset yet? 18:00:32 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-217-149.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:00:34 i need only to get the workflow going and language reference 18:00:40 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:00:47 cmon.. 18:00:49 ProG4mr: hyperspec? 18:01:05 copy paste pr0 18:02:01 going to eat, thanks for the help guys, ill be around 18:02:05 minion: CLHS? 18:02:05 CLHS: To look up a symbol in the HyperSpec, try saying "clhs symbol". For more information on the HyperSpec see http://www.cliki.net/CLHS . 18:02:17 hyperspec is not a learning tool 18:02:37 Speak for yourself! I still learn new things from it every now and again. 18:03:04 ehu: he/she just asked for a language reference... and I second nyef :) 18:03:36 right. but you already know lisp. it's not a resource to start like "ok. I want to know the language rules and get on hacking. let's read the hyperspec" 18:03:56 stassats, oh, sounds good, thanks for the tip 18:04:22 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:04:34 is there any way to get a data structure like hash table with chaining ? 18:04:43 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:04:59 kingless [~user@adsl-242-215-95.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 18:05:00 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:05:05 kushal: yes. Or: what do you mean exactly? 18:05:24 I think CLHS starts becoming a handy learning tool quite early 18:06:14 Well just as well as any language reference 18:06:16 pjb, means when there is a conflict in the key value of the hashtable , it will chain the values to each other 18:06:37 (push value (gethash key table '())) 18:07:33 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: mstevens] 18:08:03 pjb, how does it work ? 18:08:38 (gethash key table '()) returns () when the key is not present. push will cons the value to what is returned by gethash, and put it back to the same place. 18:08:45 ok 18:08:47 Just try it. 18:09:07 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:09:22 pjb, ok, understood , 18:09:38 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:10:17 pjb, one more question, is there any function to insert data in any given index in a list ? (like in [1]th place or in [3] or at the end 18:11:04 timack [~tim@hlfx64-2a-198.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 18:11:15 -!- dametri [~psykoTRON@c-98-244-33-187.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 18:11:19 for 1<=index<(length list), (push value (cdr (nthcdr (1- index) list))) 18:11:29 Is there a way to ask for an infinite float? 18:11:48 aes_: not in a standard way. Check with your implementation. 18:11:48 Using CL today for the first time in nearly 2 months after using Java nearly exclusively in that time has actually brought me tangible happiness 18:11:58 aha. pity. 18:12:18 And I only wrote a couple of functions 18:12:21 is there a way to sleep indefinitely then? 18:12:30 (loop (sleep a-lot)) 18:12:41 Ah of course. 18:13:38 *_3b* suspects most-positive-double-float would be pretty much 'indefinite' on most implementations :p 18:14:57 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:16:06 _3b, that's not the point. 18:17:45 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:19:15 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:19:19 -!- splittist [~John@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: Tangible Happiness. That's enough.] 18:19:47 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:22:19 -!- kingless [~user@adsl-242-215-95.rmo.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:22:22 timor [~timor@port-92-195-22-169.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:23:20 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:23:24 -!- timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-11-178.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:23:54 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:24:46 stassats, is there a key-binding that will refresh that thread listing buffer? 18:25:30 humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 18:26:03 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:27:01 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:27:03 ah ;g; 18:27:07 'g' 18:28:46 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:28:57 yes, or it can be set-up to refresh automatically 18:29:27 which is slime-threads-update-interval 18:29:32 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:30:01 pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-242.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:30:22 oh, this is very cool, if using lots of threads obviously 18:30:55 something about emacs' indentation choices makes my cl-who code look ugly 18:31:05 does anyone else have this experience? 18:31:13 hehe, maybe kinda. 18:31:41 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:31:47 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-20-82-64-50-165.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:32:09 Ppjet6 [~ppjet@tri59-1-195-36-251-195.dsl.club-internet.fr] has joined #lisp 18:32:37 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:32:40 Is there some obvious trick I am missing to keep the environment small? 18:33:17 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-20-82-64-50-165.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:33:44 "environment" in what sense? 18:33:55 http://i55.tinypic.com/sv15w0.png 18:34:30 Well, the memory footprint is humungous and when I make a binary that's tens and tens of megabytes too.. 18:35:09 aes_: some implementation are smaller than others; you should also make sure to look at the right memory usage column. 18:35:43 sa 18:35:55 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:36:12 stassats: How does one set the values of slime variables? 18:36:22 in your .emacs 18:36:30 sure. but it strikes me as absurd to take this much to talk http and emit some html. And yes, I tried purify, it didn't seem to do much. 18:36:45 well, you could use M-x customize-variable if you fancy customize 18:36:50 aes_: how much is this much? 18:36:56 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-20-82-64-50-165.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:37:01 56M 18:37:03 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:37:20 stassats: .emacs is what i was hoping for 18:37:21 cheers 18:37:25 you should know that purify does nothing on your platform 18:37:29 Efficient would anywhere south of "ls" 18:37:38 Ah. that might explain it.. 18:37:46 if you only want to talk http and write out some html, maybe you need to create a C program. 18:37:50 aes_: no, it might not 18:38:11 aes_: but beware: C programs tend to grow to 56M too. 18:38:11 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:38:16 also, don't forget to include libc, kernel, etc. with your ls 18:38:18 aes_: see apache httpd 18:38:30 hmm. static build. 18:38:33 nice comparison 18:38:44 right, the ls I have here is a whopping 106k 18:38:48 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:38:56 aes_: statically built? 18:39:11 I don't think so. 18:39:16 and my calendar shows "2010", sounds like time to stop worrying about megabytes 18:39:26 don't think so.. nope: /bin/ls: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.18, stripped 18:39:31 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:39:43 aes_: does it include a compiler? 18:40:07 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:40:11 yes, the GNU long-options systems is a compiler, isn't it? 18:40:46 c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:41:31 libc includes 1.2MB there. 18:41:42 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:41:43 the GCC toolchain will add another 300MB 18:41:53 hmm. seems SBCL is small afterall 18:42:14 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:42:14 Remember when EMACS was considered to be large? 18:42:40 Eight Megabytes and Constantly Swapping! 18:43:00 Escape Meta Alt Control Shift 18:43:01 more like Eighty nowadays 18:43:02 I don't think I've ever used an emacs that was only 8MB. 18:43:36 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:44:07 EmacsOS 18:44:09 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:44:15 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 18:45:40 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:46:09 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:46:11 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:46:39 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:47:31 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:48:03 -!- pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-242.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:48:10 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@host86-138-192-80.range86-138.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:48:20 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:48:25 compared to Eclipse or Visual Studio, that's still quite impressive 18:49:17 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:49:37 Well, yes 18:49:53 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:50:29 -!- peterbb [~peterbb@s22-00036.dsl.no.powertech.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:50:34 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:51:13 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:51:20 skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:17 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:52:32 seangrove [~user@c-71-198-44-87.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:59 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:53:36 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:54:06 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:54:36 pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-242.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:54:39 ASau: please stop that. 18:55:07 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:55:38 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:56:36 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:57:11 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:57:18 *ehu* slaps ASau around a bit with a large trout 18:57:20 you could just ignore JOINs 18:57:57 stassats: I actually value joins, if they're not performed 100 times per hour 18:58:06 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:58:46 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:59:12 You could just ignore ASau then. 18:59:12 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:59:41 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:59:58 schmrkc: right. tried to do that. but having him in my ignore list doesn't make his joins disappear in my client. I'll have a closer look. 19:00:19 schmrkc: ASau is also valuable, when peer isn't camping respawn points. 19:00:51 nyef: Ya I'd not ignore ASau personally. 19:00:51 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:00:58 nyef: was that a pun on the SAW machine gun? 19:01:11 ah, clearly not 19:01:15 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 19:01:20 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:01:22 1 *: CTCPS JOINS PARTS QUITS that's the life worth living 19:01:43 -!- aes_ [~aes@c80-216-253-27.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:01:59 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:02:19 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.179.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:02:22 aes_ [~aes@c80-216-253-27.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 19:02:29 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:03:06 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:03:08 -!- skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:03:27 Oh, I should say thanks for the help. Sorry I won't be learning lisp this time either. 19:03:48 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.145.238] has joined #lisp 19:04:01 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:04:17 -!- aes_ [~aes@c80-216-253-27.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Client Quit] 19:04:20 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:04:33 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:05:38 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:06:29 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.60.137] has joined #lisp 19:06:37 did he try lispworks/acl/any others? 19:06:49 ones which generate smaller images? 19:06:52 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:07:06 oh well, guess it doesn't matter. 19:07:20 -!- nipra_ [~nipra@59.161.29.151] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:07:22 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:07:52 So lisp is now bad because `lsī is smaller than sbcl. great. 19:08:55 Ah.. people who expect to be able to learn one language which is good for everything 19:09:29 I know C and Lisp.. if I want to write a new improved ls, I use C, if I want to enjoy doing it I use Lisp 19:10:02 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:11:03 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:11:11 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:11:15 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host189-191-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:11:34 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:11:46 I don't care about the size of my executables. I care about the problems they solve for my users and how much time it takes me to create a solution. 19:11:57 (and maintain!) 19:12:39 Others might. 19:12:49 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:12:50 It's a perfectly valid concern 19:13:00 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 19:13:11 Bronsa [~bronsa@host189-191-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:13:25 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:13:26 But not for every application 19:13:44 I've heard people care about memory (RAM) use, not about disk space. 19:14:00 it's usually network bandwidth and perceived bloatedness 19:14:01 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:14:12 the latter is a feeling comming from the older times 19:14:13 For example if you're writing a word processor.. who gives a crap how much disk space the executable needs? Not the users, that's certain 19:14:18 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-22-169.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:14:37 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:14:41 Disk space? $100 for a 2TB disk makes -that- a little bit less than relevant. 19:14:45 timor [~timor@port-92-195-106-192.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 19:14:53 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:15:08 A little harder to get for laptops. 19:15:12 True. 19:15:16 I think people relate disk space to bloatedness and that to unsnappiness 19:15:25 why is there a word to int coercion in loop in cmucl ? 19:15:25 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:15:27 I do at least :-) 19:15:40 For that matter, my half-terabyte disk doesn't actually -fit- in my current laptop. 19:15:42 isn't that a failure in code ?' 19:15:56 homie: No. Example please. 19:15:56 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:16:26 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:16:43 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:16:58 my own build cmucl, has the same problem with (sum 100000000) sum from ansi-cl, it's kept in gc cycle' 19:17:17 my laptop actually has 620GB; no idea about the price of it though. 19:17:19 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:17:29 *ehu* actually had that twice, but it's a big laptop 19:17:38 ppasteau [~ppasteau@bas1-montreal43-2925255560.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 19:17:53 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:18:17 rvirding [~chatzilla@h19n4c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 19:18:30 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:18:46 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:18:48 homie: Don't know what you mean by "gc cycle", but summing 10 million integers exceeds the size of a fixnum. 19:19:14 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:19:17 hi 19:19:18 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:19:29 ppasteau: hi 19:19:48 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:19:56 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:20:09 -!- nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:20:37 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:21:13 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:21:41 rtoym: but why does it work in sbcl then ? 19:22:00 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:22:46 homie: Because cmucl is 32 bit and sbcl is 64? But it does work. Just slow, maybe. 19:22:47 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:23:19 rtoym: my sbcl is now 64 19:23:19 Of course, if you're summing the first 10 million integers, this is a great time to do some thinking. :-) 19:23:22 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:23:26 err s/now/not/ 19:23:59 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:24:03 Explain what you mean by not working. And show me the code. 19:24:33 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:25:03 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:25:34 (Gee, 9999999 + 0, 9999998 + 1, 9999997 + 2... 5000000 + 4999999, call it five million squared, give or take ten millon or so?) 19:25:45 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:25:58 (Six digits of precision is good enough for engineering purposes and government work, right?) 19:26:15 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:26:17 You win! 19:26:35 (defun sum (n) (let ((s 0)) (dotimes (i n s) (incf s i)))) 19:26:46 what is the name of the init file that clisp reads at startup? 19:27:02 homie: And how does that fail? 19:27:12 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:27:26 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-119-127.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:27:27 (sum 100000000) goes into gc hell, gcing whithout ends 19:27:31 homie: And did you compile it? I think sbcl automatically compiles. (or at least used to). 19:27:44 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:27:46 does not happen with sbcl 10.0.43 or so 19:28:01 err 1.0.43 19:28:12 I am trying to parse a simple list, my code working with list like '(1 2 (1 2) (1 2)) but not with '(1 2 ((1 2) 3)) 19:28:38 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:28:39 rtoym: no i did not compile it 19:28:39 What's the structure you're trying to parse? 19:28:47 homie: Well, there you go. 19:29:07 these simple list 19:29:13 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:29:14 each elem 19:29:48 ppasteau: First flatten the tree into a list consisting of all numbers, then sum those up 19:29:48 format react the same way that my func 19:29:52 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:29:57 nyef: that's what Gauss figured out as a kid that got him marked as a potential math prodigy 19:30:08 Adamant: Yes, I know. 19:30:25 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:30:30 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:30:40 tcr okay thank you 19:31:04 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:31:08 rtoym: (compile (defun sum (n) (let ((s 0)) (dotimes (i n s) (incf s i))))) does not work either, again in gc hell 19:31:28 homie: that's not how compile works 19:31:28 i have to abort by hand with C-c 19:31:39 (defun sum ...) 19:31:41 ehu: ... It isn't? 19:31:42 (compile 'sum) 19:31:46 ah 19:31:49 ehu: Actually I think that's ok 19:31:49 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:31:51 ehu: What does DEFUN return? 19:31:57 ehu: iirc DEFUN returns the name of the function 19:32:04 ah. hehe. 19:32:07 homie: Your next trick is DISASSEMBLE. 19:32:08 sorry. 19:32:13 true. 19:32:17 eheh 19:32:19 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:32:24 does not work neither way 19:32:44 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:33:18 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:33:46 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:33:57 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.68] has joined #lisp 19:34:24 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:34:31 homie: Actually, why are you even -bothering- with such a useless toy problem, anyway? 19:34:52 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:34:58 Especially since working out the answer in one's head is so easy. 19:35:25 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:35:53 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:36:18 You know it might be a bug 19:36:23 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:36:29 The disassembler would reveal that. 19:36:51 Besides, doesn't homie have an unsupported CMUCL configuration, anyway? 19:36:55 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:37:38 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:38:38 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:39:15 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:39:46 rtoym: http://pastebin.com/32x2mq9C 19:40:17 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:41:02 homie: At a guess, you're using fewer zeros in the SBCL version? 19:42:52 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:42:55 -!- tomaw_ [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 19:43:03 no 8 zero's 19:43:08 (Fixnums are still 30 bits in CMUCL, right? I know they're still (1- n-lowtag-bits) in SBCL.) 19:43:09 both times 19:43:18 one is in gc hell the other not 19:43:48 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:43:55 Honestly, I'm not seeing it. 19:44:20 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:44:52 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:45:26 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:45:28 Another possibility, of course, is that you're only -noticing- the GC on CMUCL because it actually announces it. 19:46:23 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:46:23 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:48:29 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441568.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 19:48:31 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:48:51 rtoym: http://pastebin.com/M1bDN3z5 19:48:59 maybe you can see better what i mean 19:49:17 kingless [~kingless@adsl-242-215-95.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:49:25 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:49:56 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:50:35 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:51:05 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:51:44 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:52:16 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:52:53 gack 19:52:57 fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-084-056-156-189.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:53:18 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:53:55 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:54:17 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 19:54:27 Could be something as simple as the GC threshhold, could be threaded SBCL vs. non-threaded CMUCL, could be some divergence between the SBCL and CMUCL GCs, could be a COMPLETELY STUPID FUNCTION TO EVEN WANT TO RUN IN THE FIRST PLACE. 19:54:34 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:55:23 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:55:51 i wonder why eastern europe is blinking so much today. 19:56:05 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:56:07 aerique [~euqirea@aerique.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 19:56:36 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:56:42 timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-170-135.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 19:56:51 Fade: I actually started about that too. 19:57:07 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-106-192.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:57:07 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-119-127.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 19:57:21 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:57:41 maybe xof or xach or drewc could make appropriate ban lines until morale improves. 19:57:55 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:58:04 benny` [~benny@i577A1D0E.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:58:31 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:59:13 *Xach* has joins/parts/quits on #lisp ignored, sorry 19:59:42 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:59:44 ok i even started with -noinit and even got rid of all the packages which were installed with ql:quickload...and the same results, the disassembly dump not different 19:59:46 yeah, even at the best of times, it makes sense to /ignore #lisp joins 20:00:02 -!- benny [~benny@i577A14D4.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:00:08 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:00:24 they are colored like code comments here so my mind has the power to filter them at will! =) 20:00:41 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:01:15 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:01:51 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:01:55 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:02:28 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:02:43 homie: Right, we wouldn't expect the disassemblies to differ at this point. 20:03:04 They are, in fact, substantially the same on both compilers. 20:03:20 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:03:52 Hence the suggestion that it's either extrinsic to the system, or something to do with the GC. 20:03:56 ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 20:04:30 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Xach 20:04:33 -!- Xach has set mode +b *!*user@*.pppoe.mtu-net.ru 20:04:38 -!- Xach has set mode -o Xach 20:04:47 Xach: thanks! 20:04:56 -!- ASau [~user@ppp91-76-56-169.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:04:58 Xach: Thanks. Can you do that in #sbcl as well? 20:06:48 nyef: I don't think so. I've never been to #sbcl and I don't think I have the access. 20:07:02 Oh well. It was worth a shot. 20:07:14 nope, not authorized. 20:07:31 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-084-056-156-189.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:07:40 your client probably supports something similar to /ignore asau joins parts quits 20:07:49 fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-084-056-156-189.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:08:16 *Fade* touches his nose and points at tokenrove 20:09:29 -!- kingless [~kingless@adsl-242-215-95.rmo.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:09:51 kingless [~kingless@adsl-242-215-95.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:11:23 nyef: there's also byte interpretation VS compilation. 20:11:52 Yes, but once the function is compiled, it won't get byte-interpreted. 20:12:49 -!- ProG4mr [~tiagolr88@a85-138-35-57.cpe.netcabo.pt] has left #lisp 20:13:56 -!- salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Quit: salva] 20:16:37 homie: Did you compile? It works great for me. 20:17:16 rtoym: how did you do it ? 20:17:32 I compiled it. 20:17:41 yes but how ? 20:17:49 (compile 'sum) 20:18:06 that's what i did too, not working here' 20:18:23 i thought i already told that here 20:18:55 Then do (setf *gc-verbose* nil) and run sum again. And wait. 20:19:09 oh ok 20:19:25 Also try using TIME to compare the actual runtimes of the two systems? 20:20:22 *rtoym* likes nyef's comment that he shouted about running functions. 20:21:53 "Does it compute any sort of useful result? No. Is it even remotely optimal, algorithmically? Hell no. Why are you running it, again?" 20:22:33 *rtoym* should probably increase gc threshold. 12 MB is really rather small these days. 20:22:36 nyef: or, at least, "is it on the pareto front for any reasonable set of goals". 20:22:41 rtoym: I think we have the same here. 20:22:54 Bumping it to 8 GB has been a great help lately ;) 20:23:23 otoh, 12 MB is a reasonable L3ish size, to GC the nursery. 20:23:26 Heh. sbcl still uses 12 MB for 64-bit lisp? That seems, umm, pathetically low. 20:23:52 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 20:25:32 francogrex [~user@109.130.149.206] has joined #lisp 20:25:48 -!- kingless [~kingless@adsl-242-215-95.rmo.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:26:11 kingless [~kingless@adsl-242-215-95.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:26:48 -!- pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-242.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:27:23 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:28:49 redline6561 [~redline@66-140-241-100.ded.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:29:25 *sigh* 20:30:12 konr` [~user@201.82.132.104] has joined #lisp 20:30:23 *beach* can't pretend to be satisfied with the day, because he only fixed a few problems in Flexichain. 20:30:38 Your enthusiasm is contagious. 20:30:54 I'm satisfied with the day: I fixed a problem in SBCL. 20:31:18 It just doesn't *feel* enough. 20:31:44 -!- konr [~user@201.82.132.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:31:51 nyef: Congratulations! 20:31:53 some days you get swallowed up by the yak pen. 20:32:00 there's nothing to do but slog through it. 20:33:13 pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-50-242.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:33:21 gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:31 I'm extremely happy with this weekend: ABCL runs Maxima (a two-year standing goal), I've been handed a patch to a CLOS threading issue *and* I found out how to test DEFINE-METHOD-COMBINATION on ABCL 20:33:42 Ok, finally, I have a sane MinGW sshd. 20:34:01 This took me what.. about a month, maybe. 20:34:08 now, getting something like ssh going /w ming on windows sounds like the very definition of "yak pen". 20:34:08 Xach: What should I do to make quicklisp pick up the latest Flexichain fixes (in CVS, but not in the distribution)? 20:34:44 I need to blog about it. 20:34:50 ehu: I am very happy for you. You seem very pleased with the way things are going! 20:34:59 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host189-191-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:35:53 deepfire: I would be very happy for you if I just understood the implications of all that, but I'm afraid I don't. :( 20:36:04 The blog might help. 20:36:22 timor [~timor@port-92-195-79-87.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:36:33 can anybody suggests tools/methods for exploring/refactoring deeply nested and entwined asdf systems and packages? 20:36:43 -!- timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-170-135.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:36:44 beach: update http://common-lisp.net/project/flexichain/download/flexichain_latest.tgz 20:36:57 beach, I'm slowly creeping towards an exhaustive (all-relevant-platforms X all-relevant-lisps X all-relevant-CL-apps) automated build-testing facility. 20:36:58 that is one way. 20:37:06 Xach: OK. That will be tomorrow. 20:37:18 beach, based on desire, that is. 20:37:21 -!- kingless [~kingless@adsl-242-215-95.rmo.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:37:23 Fade: The first thing that comes to mind is ASDF-DEPENDENCY-GROVEL. 20:37:36 deepfire: Sounds very ambitious, no? 20:37:43 kingless [~kingless@adsl-242-215-95.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:56 beach, I have gone most of the way, in fact. 20:38:00 ah, i forgot about that. thanks, nyef. I'll check it out. 20:38:02 -!- Ppjet6 [~ppjet@tri59-1-195-36-251-195.dsl.club-internet.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:38:06 deepfire: how does ssh on windows come into play? 20:38:09 *beach* goes to spend time with his (admittedly small) family! 20:38:11 deepfire: You have MIPS and ARM hosts, right? 20:38:16 deepfire: Congratulations! 20:38:20 beach: looks like the hard work starting to pay off. 20:38:30 nyef, ok, I should tone down my propagande, I see :-) 20:38:33 Jabberwockey [~jens@89.204.137.132] has joined #lisp 20:38:38 beach: that's a great feeling. 20:38:42 nyef, but I do have a mips32 host. 20:38:46 ehu: I am pleased to hear that! 20:38:56 ok got it, but it takes longer than in sbcl somehow, i'm timing it now' 20:38:56 Xach, git://git.feelingofgreen.ru/openssh 20:38:58 i have rather a lot of mips64 running irix. 20:38:59 *beach* really vanishes. 20:39:16 deepfire: That doesn't really answer my question. 20:39:24 Xach, I don't understand your question, then. 20:39:40 deepfire: Is ssh on windows related to your testing project? If so, how? 20:40:07 Xach, the desire buildmaster connects to its buildslaves through ssh 20:40:26 -!- r4v5 [~r4v5@adsl-69-210-251-233.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:40:38 -!- kingless [~kingless@adsl-242-215-95.rmo.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:40:40 deepfire: you could have saved a month and written a remote execution server in lisp! 20:41:08 Xach, well, I don't really want to have security issues :-) 20:42:07 Maybe you are right, to a degree, though. 20:42:40 Maybe it was stubbornness on my side. 20:45:00 I'm thinking again about it -- it could have been an active-slave scheme, in which case the security implications would've been entirely different. 20:45:16 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-217-149.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:45:34 http://pastebin.com/qNALZaQs 20:45:42 timing 20:46:00 tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has joined #lisp 20:46:45 homie: you're doing something wrong; real time is much higher than user + system. 20:46:51 homie: What kind of machine? 20:46:53 Is your machine heavily loaded? 20:46:59 -!- redline6561 [~redline@66-140-241-100.ded.swbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:48:04 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.65.168.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:48:05 maybe ... 20:48:21 it's mostly this new firefox, which gets heavy...' 20:48:35 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 20:50:52 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 20:52:05 -!- aerique [~euqirea@aerique.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 20:52:10 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-217-149.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:52:24 tomaw_ [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has joined #lisp 20:54:14 ak70 [~ak70@user050.195.users.nextweb.net.mt] has joined #lisp 20:54:32 -!- ak70 [~ak70@user050.195.users.nextweb.net.mt] has left #lisp 20:56:43 -!- dto1 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[~user@xdsl-87-79-232-123.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:59:16 rfg [~rfg@client-86-25-217-99.glw-bng-011.adsl.virginmedia.net] has joined #lisp 21:59:17 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-232-123.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:01:51 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:02:50 GilbertErik [~GilbertEr@user-0ccsi5d.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 22:03:32 -!- Blkt [~user@93-33-129-19.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Error: do not makunbound t please!] 22:04:32 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-58-246.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:07:14 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:07:25 is there something thinner than cl-irc for writing irc bots? 22:07:34 it looks a little overengineered looking at examples 22:07:58 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-165-178.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:08:05 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-165-178.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:09:18 >_< 22:09:22 Sure! There's documentation on the wire protocol, and you can get a raw socket. Have at! 22:09:23 googled it, nm 22:09:36 i did it already once :D 22:09:44 Not in the mood to do it again. 22:09:53 Fair enough. 22:10:31 I've just discovered that the IRC client I habitually use has a rather obnoxious limitation, so I might look into the whole cl-irc thing again soon myself. 22:10:38 trivial-irc looks good 22:12:05 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:12:45 -!- timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-53-152.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:14:53 Demosthenes [~demo@65.242.219.13] has joined #lisp 22:17:13 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-134-25-199.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 22:17:17 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:17:24 -!- GilbertErik [~GilbertEr@user-0ccsi5d.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:17:55 GilbertErik [~GilbertEr@user-0ccsi5d.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 22:18:19 cl-who's with-html-output does not support macros that expand into html... 22:18:21 http://lisp-univ-etc.blogspot.com/2009/03/cl-who-macros.html 22:18:36 does this mean one should avoid doing such things? 22:19:11 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-153-145.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:19:17 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.196.151] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:20:08 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:21:14 doing what ? 22:21:17 using them ? 22:21:27 or making your own ? 22:21:46 fatblueduck: it means you should read and understand the evaluation model of cl-who. 22:21:58 I mean, should I avoid writing macros that expand into html 22:22:08 fatblueduck: it's just like defclass not supporting macros that expand into slot definitions. 22:22:09 no, why ? 22:22:10 Xach: ok 22:22:23 kingless [~kingless@adsl-242-215-95.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 22:22:26 with-html-output is a macro with special meaning for its "body" forms 22:22:37 it is not like progn 22:23:11 -!- kingless [~kingless@adsl-242-215-95.rmo.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:23:12 Am i the only one who likes plt-scheme's (now racket) x-expressions? :) 22:23:22 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A4376.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:23:37 ? x-expressions ? 22:24:10 how do they relate to s-expressions ? 22:24:29 (define serve (request) `(html (body ((bg-color "black")) (p "Hello, " ,(get-user-name))))) 22:25:10 it's just a way to write xml using s-exprs 22:25:19 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.145.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:25:25 oh 22:25:51 involving no macros 22:25:53 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-153-145.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 22:26:29 I thought xml-mixed-mode was amusing. 22:27:10 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.181.62] has joined #lisp 22:27:50 timor [~timor@port-92-195-84-73.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 22:27:59 I've gotten 351 responses to my survey so far. 87% of responders use SBCL. 22:28:17 -!- GilbertErik [~GilbertEr@user-0ccsi5d.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:28:23 -!- davazp [~user@103.Red-88-8-226.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:28:44 Yay for SBCL, then! 22:28:48 what was the survey for ? 22:28:53 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 22:28:55 homie: The quicklisp survey. 22:28:58 ah 22:29:02 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:29:17 35% use Clozure CL (the next highest) 22:29:31 *sellout* pumps his fist 22:29:39 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:29:44 I have a feeling my survey hasn't reached many Allegro enclaves 22:29:58 That accounts for 122% of your responders. :-P 22:30:10 i don't know why but when i install packages with quicklisp in cmucl, cmucl remembers all and reloads all of them at next start, which does not happen with sbcl ... 22:30:16 kingless [~kingless@adsl-242-215-95.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 22:30:27 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 22:30:32 nyef: it's not an either-or situation. 22:30:41 nyef: i use both, though sbcl more than clozure cl 22:30:48 Yeah, I figured as much, but it still amused me. 22:31:01 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:31:02 i don't like java or js based lisp, not at this stage .... 22:31:30 i'm hardly getting along with lisp, can't think of the mess when java or js comes into play too..... 22:31:45 mebbe later.. 22:32:31 but parenscript is already js, so when i enable any of the packages by chance, i'm already there ....lol 22:32:41 with regards to library management, 57% do it manually, 26% use clbuild, 38% use asdf-install 22:33:01 i was a little surprised by that 22:33:22 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:33:33 yeh, no surprise as there is no unified package manager or so... 22:33:36 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:33:50 Xach: Time for a "Lispers do it manually" T-shirt? 22:33:53 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 22:34:13 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:34:38 Xach: The prevalence of asdf-install, then? 22:34:55 Odin-: yes. and i'm biased by the nerds here. i expected clbuild to be more popular. 22:35:30 sellout: oh, that's a good idea. 22:36:44 I've never entirely understood why ASDF-INSTALL was so deprecated by the community. I suppose the fact that it doesn't bundle its signature support, but that seems pretty minor. 22:37:27 together with outdated packages ? 22:37:38 and/or changing url's ? 22:39:28 Insecure design. 22:39:35 Horribly insecure design. 22:40:33 timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-97-247.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 22:40:37 The problem of outdated packages isn't really ASDF-INSTALL's problem. If the packages published by the library developers are out of date.... 22:40:58 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-153-145.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:40:59 Odin-: in what way is ASDF-INSTALL less secure than the alternatives? 22:41:04 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-84-73.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:41:09 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-153-145.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 22:42:18 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h19n4c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:42:57 I don't have any objection to the alternatives; I just don't see how they necessarily solve the underlying problems. 22:43:03 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@cpc1-belf4-0-0-cust889.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:44:53 rpg: It tends to follow random links, and can therefore be vandalised. 22:45:28 Odin-: Which is why the GPG signature protocol is present. 22:45:47 asdf-install is like some twisted version of debian unstable, where half the required packages are out-and-out missing, a third are never updated, and the remaining sixth tend to depend on newer versions of available packages or outright missing packages. 22:46:38 nyef: Right. But if the library authors don't maintain the libraries, it's not clear to me how providing a different delivery system addresses that underlying problem. 22:46:40 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-153-145.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:46:47 not maintained packages should just be wiped away.... 22:46:57 or not taken into consideration... 22:46:59 when pulling 22:47:44 Good point. That argues for someone to play the role of gatekeeper, the way a linux distro packager does. Seems like Xach has signed up for this, which is cool. 22:48:13 jep 22:48:23 cow-orke1 [~mw@c541745C1.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #lisp 22:48:26 scode [~scode@hyperion.scode.org] has joined #lisp 22:48:45 srcerer_ [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 22:49:06 Yeah, that's precisely it: The "distro package manager" role, as it were. 22:49:20 When he asks for help, we need to step up because being gatekeeper is drudgery. 22:49:26 maybe there should just be one thing more to Xachs, all is pulled from the latest devel branches not ? so maybe a snapshot repo too, which comes at least with packages known to work 22:50:02 homie: No, no... That's the point: clbuild is the one that just pulls from source control. 22:51:13 erk_ [~MrEd@BZ.BZFLAG.BZ] has joined #lisp 22:51:49 BrianRice` [~water@c-98-246-165-205.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:51:52 Borbus_ [borbus@borbus.kicks-ass.net] has joined #lisp 22:51:56 -!- specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:51:56 -!- srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:51:56 -!- minion [~minion@common-lisp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:51:56 -!- timack [~tim@hlfx64-2a-198.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:51:56 -!- Borbus [borbus@borbus.kicks-ass.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:51:56 -!- ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:51:56 -!- erk [~MrEd@about/apple/iPod/BeZerk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:51:57 -!- clop [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:51:57 -!- dmiles_afk 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[~nnnuser@zenit.dh.bytemark.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:52:59 seejay [~seejay@plexyplanet.org] has joined #lisp 22:53:01 Xof [~crhodes@158.223.51.79] has joined #lisp 22:53:23 -!- kingless [~kingless@adsl-242-215-95.rmo.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 22:53:25 -!- seejay is now known as Guest27450 22:53:35 Tasunteld [~jsz@rps312.ovh.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:41 i think with all the memoization capabilities of lisp, one could design something to even revert to a prior state when something unstable was pulled in and is not working or so... 22:54:47 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 22:54:57 or test it beforehand, before pulling.... 22:55:34 much room for improvement i see... 22:55:43 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-217-149.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:55:45 don't know how other think... 22:55:50 s/other/others/ 22:56:11 -!- timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-97-247.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:56:19 -!- fatblueduck [~user@pool-71-104-155-233.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:57:47 ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has joined #lisp 23:00:17 kvsari [~kvsari@203.171.93.21.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:02:30 -!- timack [~tim@hlfx64-2a-198.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:03:36 timack [~tim@hlfx64-2a-198.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 23:03:45 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:03:50 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 23:04:26 fihi09 [~user@pool-96-224-162-86.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:29 -!- timack [~tim@hlfx64-2a-198.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 23:05:30 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:06:57 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:07:13 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:07:41 What's the most lispy way to get the first 1 to n elements of a lisp? is this something I should write a macro for? 23:08:23 vs ?? 23:08:34 1 to n elements of a lisp ? 23:08:46 earg, sorry, *list 23:09:15 use iterate, loop or something like elt nth etc... lookup docu for them 23:09:41 alright, just checking such a function wasn't build int 23:09:43 *built in 23:09:47 most of them already exist... 23:09:56 you do use macros for complex cases.... 23:10:16 or for things you want to automate or so... 23:11:17 car,cdr first,rest etc.... 23:11:52 and all the in-betweens will help you, if you don't have something which already does what you want.... 23:12:08 tim [~tim@hlfx64-2a-198.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 23:12:17 how about getting at array or vector elements ? 23:12:32 aref does it all ? 23:12:54 timor [~timor@port-92-195-96-157.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 23:15:13 -!- humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:17:04 humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:17:49 -!- Jabberwockey [~jens@89.204.137.132] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:18:47 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:19:07 -!- Guest43380 [~n@new.unmutual.info] has quit [Changing host] 23:19:07 Guest43380 [~n@opendarwin/developer/chandler] has joined #lisp 23:21:19 -!- Guest43380 is now known as chandler 23:28:08 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-96-157.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:28:31 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:32:18 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-233-194-28.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 23:35:02 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 23:39:49 stassats: forked your commonqt repo... see here: http://github.com/ivan4th/commonqt -- fixed a problem in (%qobject ...) 23:40:55 stassats: basically your stricter approach to caching broke some of my stuff... namely, I've noticed that (#_addLayout (#_layout widget) ...) stopped working for e.g. QVBoxLayouts 23:41:38 this is because (%qobject ...) doesn't attempt to determine the actual type of the object 23:42:30 so (#_layout widget) returns # and not e.g. # as it should 23:42:46 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:43:11 in David's CommonQt the originally created # was returned due to excess caching 23:43:11 timor [~timor@port-92-195-143-222.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 23:45:08 I've also made %qobject caching requirements less strict so QVBoxLayout can be returned from cache when QLayout (superclass) is requested 23:46:38 I tried to build lichtblau's commonqt, but i had problems with the makefiles hardcoding paths to /home/david 23:47:03 is there one that builds without such trickery? 23:47:25 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.60.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:47:29 psilord [~psilord@adsl-71-150-251-181.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:53:15 Xach: stassats' version uses saner paths 23:53:51 still, you have to deal with kdebindings :( 23:56:52 maturin [~user@cpe-98-149-134-194.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:57:28 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-153-145.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:58:40 timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-65-141.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 23:58:55 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483A471.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:59:23 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-143-222.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:59:42 dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp