00:00:31 *fusss* opens iterate.pdf 00:00:34 bandu [~coyotama@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 00:02:23 (iter (for (key . val) in (jcall "elements" (jstatic "getProperties" "java.lang.System"))) ..) has a nice ring to it 00:03:05 ... literate programming? 00:05:06 -!- mk2` [~user@159.92.64.121] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:06:07 -!- rrice [~rrice@adsl-99-51-90-133.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:06:56 that quickproject thing and some exposure to Eclipse stuff has really shaped up the quality of my "products". Good to be able to bootstrap my crap with one command, instead of animating everything to life with bare-hand surgery in Emacs 00:07:05 -!- Joreji [~thomas@93-004.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:08:32 -!- Guest19435 [~sthalik@sthalik.broker.freenet6.net] has left #lisp 00:09:02 weirdo [~sthalik@sthalik.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 00:09:23 -!- _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:10:36 nyef: is it beer o'clock yet? 00:11:00 No beer left. :-( 00:11:11 So I'm playing with VOPs instead. 00:11:34 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.33.72] has joined #lisp 00:12:15 I left Wisconsin; easily, America's beer capital 00:12:34 upward [~upward@modemcable004.209-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 00:12:39 7/11s there stock more varieties than Washington "beer gardens" 00:12:42 FUUUUUUUU 00:13:02 -!- fiveop_ [~fiveop@p5B283D0F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 00:13:31 -!- incandenza [~djm@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:13:49 is there a function to get all slots of an instance? I'm working with sort of a black-box class from someone 00:14:56 (class-slots (class-of instance))? 00:15:11 fualo: It's a MOP thing, and I don't know it offhand, but did you try the documentation, did you try DESCRIBE, and did you consider that hacking directly at slots instead of using accessors is usually considered bad form? 00:16:23 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:16:26 thanks fusss... nyef yea, I tried 00:16:29 fualo: MOP:CLASS-SLOTS and MOP:SLOT-DEFINITION-* 00:16:33 the documentation on this sucks 00:17:00 fualo: agreed. MOP stuff is best discovered by intuition and APROPOS 00:17:02 timack [~tim@hlfx53-2a-232.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 00:20:51 konr [~user@201.82.132.104] has joined #lisp 00:20:56 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:21:29 incandenza [~djm@ip68-231-109-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:23:09 rrice [~rrice@76.244.151.122] has joined #lisp 00:26:23 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B818.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:27:36 -!- mtd [~martin@ops-13.xades.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:29:18 -!- rrice [~rrice@76.244.151.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:29:20 -!- gonzojive [~red@171.66.82.205] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 00:31:37 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.2.85] has joined #lisp 00:35:12 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:37:20 beach` [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-39-80.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 00:39:13 mtd [~martin@ops-13.xades.com] has joined #lisp 00:40:43 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-34-155.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:48:42 -!- tama_ [~tama@2001:0:53aa:64c:2457:2cee:b85b:157c] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:49:07 nite all 00:49:08 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-230-225.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.10/20100914125854]] 00:52:34 intuition? 00:53:23 -!- gigamonkey [~user@c-98-248-194-46.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:53:55 marienz [~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz] has joined #lisp 00:55:01 the_unmaker: Intuition is trainable, but it takes a while. 00:57:09 my intuition is to redo all my bash perl python build tools at work in common lisp on gobolinux 00:57:16 or perhaps openbsd 00:57:19 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.23.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:57:28 they kinda don't like me using it 00:57:39 uz intution screams redhat and python are no fun 00:57:40 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.23.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 00:57:42 cuz 00:58:00 the_unmaker: heh we work for the same "they" ;) 00:59:05 OpenBSD: Because you don't really want multithreading or FPU exceptions. 01:01:31 jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 01:03:51 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 01:04:10 Ah god. Why does indentation of ,ed and ,@ed expressions always have to be such a fucking MESS. It seems every time I update Slime some uglinesses get fixed and others are introduced. 01:04:20 well someone told me user level threads, beat os threads......but I dunno 01:04:32 so I am curious is a well written app can be speedy on openbsd 01:04:42 as fast or faster than freebsd using os threads 01:05:05 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-92-139-26.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:05:10 "user level microprocesses" 01:05:34 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-92-139-26.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 01:05:37 the_unmaker: Green threads can't beat real threads on a multi-core system, simply because green threads can't take up more than one core. 01:06:29 -!- jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:06:32 I don't understand why indentation of ,ed and ,@ed expressions couldn't just completely ignore that they're in that sort of context and indent just like every other form. So there must be lots of technical details I'm not aware of, but damn. 01:07:07 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-16-132.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:08:11 tama [~tama@2001:0:53aa:64c:8b0:fbff:b85b:157c] has joined #lisp 01:12:06 -!- bgs100 is now known as N-14 01:13:23 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:18:02 -!- tama [~tama@2001:0:53aa:64c:8b0:fbff:b85b:157c] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:18:14 salva_ [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 01:19:36 Modius [~Modius@cpe-24-28-30-165.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:20:58 -!- salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:20:58 -!- salva_ is now known as salva 01:23:52 DanLentz [~danlentz@c-68-32-54-29.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:26:34 tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 01:26:41 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:27:17 -!- brandlee [~brandlee@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: brandlee] 01:27:27 are green threads same as user level microprocesses? 01:27:54 To a degree of approximation, yes. 01:28:01 can't the progrma take a number of os level threads and have mini processe son each coordinate 01:28:14 Not if you don't -have- os-level threads. 01:28:28 Which is the entire point of the complaint. 01:31:07 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 01:32:03 patapra [~patapra@74.196.224.26] has joined #lisp 01:32:55 -!- tic [~tic@c83-249-196-192.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:34:28 -!- N-14 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:36:13 is there a more flexible way of looping. the loop macro seems so restrictive in that it only accepts certain keywords 01:36:47 nyef: well, there's also m:n threading. 01:36:51 Sure, there are several. One of the simplest is a TAGBODY. 01:36:54 pkhuong: On OpenBSD? 01:37:13 (Which happened to be the original system under discussion.) 01:37:26 patapra: What kind of looping are you trying to do? 01:37:48 LOOP is already too flexible, imho... 01:37:52 tama [~tama@2001:0:53aa:64c:3c77:2ced:b85b:157c] has joined #lisp 01:38:01 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:38:04 sigh. Writing one's own column store sucks a bit. 01:38:07 Some people swear by ITERATE. Some people swear -at- ITERATE. 01:38:10 I'm in the process of almost completely eliminating it from my codebases. 01:38:59 Hexstream: Really? I keep running into places in SBCL where I'd ordinarily use a LOOP, except that SBCL doesn't use LOOP internally. 01:39:49 I loved ITERATE when I thought LOOP was a good idea in theory but with a bad implementation (well, syntax) in practice. But now that I realized I can do without the concept of something like LOOP entirely, I don't really like ITERATE so much, even though it's much better than LOOP I think... 01:40:43 nyef: That could be my second blogpost... "How to live without LOOP." 01:41:05 Don't go there, SBCL has this COLLECT thing... 01:41:12 Throw some instances where you'd think of using a LOOP and I'll see if I can come up with an alternative. 01:41:35 Oh, there are always alternatives, it's just that LOOP is quite readable once you're used to it. 01:42:14 Well, it tends to indent like crap and stuff. It's not lispy. 01:42:41 Meh. Whatever. 01:43:08 You have to admit that LOOP is a fucking monster. And the irony is that despite it's huge "power", it's frequently used where there are obvious alternatives. 01:43:58 Do you have to admit that? 01:44:14 Stuff like: (loop for item in mylist collect (1+ item)) or I dunno... ok so this example is obvious but there are less obvious ones I can now translate easily. 01:44:30 Would you? 01:44:35 hex: its kinda hard to explain. so im trying to solve a puzzle. i have a function that looks at the board and returns every possible move for each piece. 01:44:53 another function that checks if the board is in a "goal state" 01:45:01 another that makes a move and updates the board 01:45:12 Is this for a school assignment of some sort? ;P 01:45:32 Ditching LOOP makes me appreciate other parts of the language more. 01:45:32 it is but im not looking for algorithms.. its more syntax that im stuck on 01:45:44 For instance, before ditching LOOP I just NEVER used mapcon. 01:47:02 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 01:47:04 in a loop that loops every piece on the board: i want to check if the board is in a goal state. if so append a special character to the list. if not i want to find all the moves and make each of those moves and loop again (call this function recursively) 01:47:26 and im guessing id use mapcar in there somewhere 01:48:06 hdurer_ [~holly@home.sinclair-durer.net] has joined #lisp 01:48:39 patapra: k, well that's a bit abstract. You should probably try to come up with a partial answer and post that somewhere and then we can review it and make suggestions. 01:48:48 k 01:49:33 I have flashbacks of trying to help someone for a technical problem over the phone. *shudder* 01:49:41 can lisp use processes and pipes to make use of multiple threads? 01:49:44 -!- zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:50:38 These kinds of things are not part of the Common Lisp standard. 01:51:17 Some implementations, such as SBCL, support native threads so you don't necessarily have to use processes and pipes for multithreading.. 01:51:47 -!- Holcxjo [~holly@pdpc/supporter/active/hdurer] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:52:26 -!- timack [~tim@hlfx53-2a-232.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:54:39 EngiNerd [~quassel@cpe-76-179-25-166.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:01:04 For more fun, threaded SBCL uses SIGPIPE internally. 02:01:44 Anyway, I'm gone. 02:01:47 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-134-127.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 02:02:51 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-188-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 02:06:25 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:08:26 sorry hex, im workin on it 02:08:28 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-92-139-26.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:08:44 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-92-139-26.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 02:09:10 patapra: Don't be sorry, you're not on my critical path... 02:09:42 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 02:10:17 what if im apart of your race condition? 02:10:25 a part 02:12:38 m4dnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 02:14:02 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:15:18 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:16:43 -!- specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:21:18 -!- dreish [~dreish@2002:cf8a:2fad:0:21f:5bff:fe35:ae0d] has quit [Quit: dreish] 02:22:55 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.68] has joined #lisp 02:25:41 -!- tama [~tama@2001:0:53aa:64c:3c77:2ced:b85b:157c] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:26:16 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 02:34:50 -!- sytse [~sytse@2001:888:1817:0:226:18ff:fe65:ac7b] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:35:19 *billitch* just found http://www.pps.jussieu.fr/~jch/software/XinC.html 02:35:20 and laughed 02:36:17 sytse [~sytse@2001:888:1817:0:226:18ff:fe65:ac7b] has joined #lisp 02:37:36 =) 02:43:56 tama [~tama@2001:0:53aa:64c:3cf7:2cee:b85b:157c] has joined #lisp 02:45:29 What's lambda lifting? 02:46:03 its about internal elevators in lisp compilers 02:46:06 -!- ost` [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:46:23 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:46:24 ost` [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 02:46:43 ... and what's an elevator? 02:46:59 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has left #lisp 02:47:12 (still learning!) 02:47:19 billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 02:47:32 in UK elevator is called lift 02:47:58 i usually call them by pressing a button but do as you please 02:48:01 Ok, but I don't think in the US it's called "lambda elevatoring"... is it? 02:48:04 hehe 02:48:29 liftig in haskell i know 02:48:33 -!- hdurer_ [~holly@home.sinclair-durer.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:48:34 billitch: Context is everything, you context-free clod! 02:48:54 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 02:48:58 hdurer_ [~holly@home.sinclair-durer.net] has joined #lisp 02:49:04 yeah i was hoping some syntax duality might be enjoyable 02:50:43 Joreji [~thomas@93-004.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 02:51:32 regarding OpenBSD, is there a good way to use kqueue in CL ? 02:52:08 http://common-lisp.net/project/iolib/ (never tried it) 02:52:11 it would be a safer and faster alternative to threads 02:53:09 people still use OpenBSD? 02:53:11 ok i've now heard enough about iolib to try it on next occasion =) 02:53:45 Adamant: i think more and more will use OpenBSD now that suspend/resume work on most laptops 02:54:13 the last linux died on mine few weeks ago and i did not care to repair it once more 02:54:38 -!- kslt1 [~Sierka1@netblock-208-127-156-74.dslextreme.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:54:42 and sbcl is at a much more recent version than say, debian stable 02:54:53 billitch: Linus becoming a prick recently on the scale of Theo might make the choice easier. 02:56:03 Adamant: well i read openbsd MLs and never actually read theo being a prick, but often heard people say so 02:56:18 kinda like, "lisp is interpreted" i guess 02:56:26 -!- patapra [~patapra@74.196.224.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:56:50 billitch: keep reading. unless something has changed, which it may well have, he has a prior history of making fun of newbies and generally being abrasive and annoying 02:56:54 but this troll belongs in #openbsd 02:57:23 newbies make fools of themselves, theo is only telling them 02:57:45 that is, um, cute. 02:58:01 no its ugly, but actually open and kind i think 02:58:24 and gossip crunchy 02:58:31 no, it's a substitute for developing social skills and actually thinking about the effects of what you say on the Internet. 02:58:59 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.40] has joined #lisp 03:01:52 Ok. Cmucl 20b uploaded and everything updated (I think). Time to send out an announcement. Tomorrow. It's sleepy time now. 03:03:01 well that's not my experience, everything i have read directly from this man and not taken out of its context was on point, sharp and yes critical (non-consensual). critics were not always, often siding with the said victims just because they were victims, but if you take his criticism in a pragmatic view, they are quite useful 03:04:03 so what's with fp exceptions on OpenBSD ? 03:04:21 benny` [~benny@i577A1DFC.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 03:04:34 echo-area [~echo-area@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 03:04:44 kslt1 [~Sierka1@netblock-208-127-156-74.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 03:05:26 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.68] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:06:19 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 03:08:36 -!- antivigilante [~antivigil@63-225-203-9.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:10:43 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.68] has joined #lisp 03:11:43 stefan__ [~stefan@gssn-5f7540df.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 03:11:59 an maybe "developing social skills" should be to read what people actually wrote in full context instead of propagating the hate talk initiated by powerful and influent persons which he openly criticize 03:12:02 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-89-168.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 03:14:43 -!- morphling_ [~stefan@gssn-5f755b32.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:15:48 -!- tama [~tama@2001:0:53aa:64c:3cf7:2cee:b85b:157c] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:21:43 antivigilante [~antivigil@63-225-203-9.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:25:41 spradnyesh [~pradyus@115.240.65.116] has joined #lisp 03:26:13 billitch: I'm talking about him being a cock to his users that are newbies, not his running wars with Linus and basically every other major open-source OS group. also, none of those people, including Linus and Theo, are influential in any meaningful sense of the term, unless you think writing a OS is the gateway to money, wealth, fame, power, or basically much at all. 03:29:55 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@115.240.65.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:31:04 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-qsskyqcxldveatnj] has joined #lisp 03:33:02 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:35:51 yes, i was talking about the influential ones 03:37:26 -!- hdurer_ [~holly@home.sinclair-durer.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:37:27 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:37:28 and unless you have hard proof of disrespect to outright newbies to openbsd, which has one of the best doc in the unix world (how can you help newbies more ?), i will just disregard your argument 03:37:56 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-72.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:38:22 patapra [~patapra@74.196.224.26] has joined #lisp 03:39:11 tama [~tama@2001:0:53aa:64c:34d6:fbff:b85b:157c] has joined #lisp 03:39:47 i think the most annoying point on openbsd is really not the community, they have a very nice knowledge of unix and codebase, but support : you are mostly on your own 03:39:50 -!- p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:40:31 it's not a problem for me, but i can understand it makes some companies uneasy about it 03:40:54 p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 03:40:58 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 03:43:15 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 03:43:35 actually it's a problem when it comes to threads (which are evil anyway) and nyef said something about fp exceptions ? 03:45:26 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-24-28-30-165.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: I'm big in Japan] 03:46:02 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-92-139-26.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:49:50 -!- konr 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04:09:23 -!- patapra [~patapra@74.196.224.26] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:13:28 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:13:32 -!- humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:15:49 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.68] has joined #lisp 04:16:29 ddp [~ddp@c-67-169-77-221.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:16:59 ddp_ [~ddp@c-67-169-77-221.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:17:11 -!- ddp_ [~ddp@c-67-169-77-221.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 04:17:16 -!- ddp [~ddp@c-67-169-77-221.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 04:18:56 -!- beach` is now known as beach 04:19:22 Good monring everyone! 04:22:13 -!- upward [~upward@modemcable004.209-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:22:43 good morning beach 04:25:11 Morning. 04:25:16 mephisto_ [~mephisto@CPE00163625fbf5-CM00407b85ff2a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 04:25:44 -!- Joreji [~thomas@93-004.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:27:29 sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.162.242] has joined #lisp 04:30:51 coyo|pingout [~coyotama@pool-71-164-234-131.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:32:26 -!- bandu [~coyotama@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:35:39 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-230-225.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:35:43 back 04:36:15 -!- tsuru [~charlie@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:38:05 nostoi [~nostoi@135.Red-80-39-204.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 04:40:36 symbole_ [~user@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:43:28 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-140-168.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 04:46:40 (reverse "hax") LOL 04:46:50 -!- antivigilante [~antivigil@63-225-203-9.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:47:57 i was trying to come up with a library name and decided to reverse "hacks" and it wasn't pronounceable. tried "hax" and loled. 04:48:54 antivigilante [~antivigil@63-225-203-9.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:55:53 -!- TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@203-214-121-106.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:57:43 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.68] has quit [Quit: THE MUPPETS GOT ME!!!] 04:57:50 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-230-225.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:57:53 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 04:58:08 azathoth99 [~g@pool-173-60-208-79.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:58:21 http://hypertable.org/about.html wat u think about this gents? 05:00:20 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-230-225.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:03:17 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@135.Red-80-39-204.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 05:03:32 -!- ost` [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:03:47 ost` [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 05:03:51 -!- dstatyvka 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seconds] 06:05:39 Blkt [~user@93-33-134-2.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 06:07:39 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-16-132.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:09:17 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ktnydejezqhcheow] has joined #lisp 06:09:48 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 06:10:08 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-16-132.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:10:40 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 06:13:03 -!- execve [~execve@ppp-81-25-57-185.ultranet.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:15:33 how do I tell abcl where to find my .asd files? 06:17:50 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 06:20:23 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:20:33 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:21:33 -!- azathoth99 [~g@pool-173-60-208-79.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 06:22:02 setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:27:12 lunestae [614c3062@gateway/web/freenode/ip.97.76.48.98] has joined #lisp 06:28:41 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-65-222.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:32:51 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:35:20 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 06:35:23 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.68] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:36:24 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-65-222.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:37:40 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 06:37:47 -!- ve [~a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:37:57 ve [~a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 06:40:42 -!- The_Jon_Smith [~The_Jon_S@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:50:41 xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@58.41.2.85] has joined #lisp 06:50:46 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ktnydejezqhcheow] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:50:57 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 06:52:45 good morning 06:53:11 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.2.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:54:04 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ctstywmdbovfemew] has joined #lisp 06:55:53 -!- legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-88-10.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:57:53 morning nikodemus 06:58:13 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-64-20.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:58:39 -!- DanLentz [~danlentz@c-68-32-54-29.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 07:00:41 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 07:00:58 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 07:02:45 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:02:55 good morning 07:03:54 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:05:18 -!- smithzv [~smithzv@c-98-245-201-232.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:05:58 -!- symbole_ [~user@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:06:24 freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-107.vpn.helsinki.fi] has joined #lisp 07:08:27 ehu [~ehuels@109.32.84.55] has joined #lisp 07:08:29 slyrus_: the same way you would any other ASDF2? 07:09:50 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:10:44 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:12:02 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 07:14:12 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:14:12 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-64-20.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:14:13 -!- lunestae [614c3062@gateway/web/freenode/ip.97.76.48.98] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:18:53 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:22:41 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:27:02 gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:27:33 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 07:37:50 -!- p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:38:07 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 07:39:58 p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 07:40:05 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 07:44:11 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-64-102.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:46:48 -!- l_a_m [~nlamiraul@194.51.71.190] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:48:09 l_a_m [~nlamiraul@194.51.71.190] has joined #lisp 07:52:21 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 07:55:26 wvdschel [~wim@mansamusa.elis.UGent.be] has joined #lisp 07:58:31 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:00:12 beaumonta [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 08:01:14 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ctstywmdbovfemew] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:01:22 TraumaPwny [~TraumaPon@203-217-36-187.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 08:04:18 -!- TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@203-217-36-187.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:06:00 -!- TraumaPwny is now known as TraumaPony 08:06:52 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:07:03 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 08:07:11 hello lispers 08:07:46 hi 08:09:07 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:09:24 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 08:11:56 -!- Krystof [~csr21@78.146.236.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:12:32 slash_ [~unknown@p5DD1DFAB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:12:46 vng [~vng@1.139.39-62.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 08:13:23 Good morning! 08:14:16 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 08:15:10 'lo vng 08:15:14 loxs [~loxs@213.169.45.106] has joined #lisp 08:16:59 hello kiuma 08:19:18 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:19:37 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-qvarwxrhylctcqui] has joined #lisp 08:19:54 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 08:22:13 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-zuqwsgudykqixomo] has joined #lisp 08:23:46 -!- p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:29:30 p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 08:35:57 -!- p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:36:43 The_Jon_Smith [~The_Jon_S@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 08:36:48 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.115.109.186] has joined #lisp 08:37:02 bzzbzz_ [~franco@70.83.34.240] has joined #lisp 08:38:18 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:39:56 maus [~maus@1.139.39-62.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 08:39:59 p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 08:40:10 Good morning! :) 08:41:04 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.32.84.55] has left #lisp 08:41:42 -!- yakov [~yzaytsev@183.49.62.92.nienschanz.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:41:49 hello maus 08:42:49 hello Quadrescence :) 08:43:07 -!- beaumonta is now known as abeaumont_ 08:43:48 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:46:23 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279442646.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:50:19 yakov [~yzaytsev@183.49.62.92.nienschanz.ru] has joined #lisp 08:52:43 -!- antivigilante [~antivigil@63-225-203-9.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:52:46 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441568.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 08:53:33 kwertii [~kwertii@ResNet-32-110.resnet.ucsb.edu] has joined #lisp 08:57:16 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:04:08 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-107.vpn.helsinki.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:05:57 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:08:21 tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:12:36 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.65.79.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:12:56 -!- loxs [~loxs@213.169.45.106] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:14:43 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.104.106.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 09:15:31 -!- humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:16:32 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 09:17:07 -!- guther 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[vQfGeT8FQJ@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:15:19 Intensity [2FuT6PkDFS@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 10:16:04 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 10:16:22 -!- tama [~tama@2001:0:53aa:64c:34d6:fbff:b85b:157c] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:17:23 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.33.72] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 10:17:48 -!- p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:20:04 p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 10:20:30 -!- ASau``` [~user@77.246.230.215] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:26:39 ASau` [~user@77.246.230.215] has joined #lisp 10:27:32 Yuuhi [benni@p5483D209.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:27:46 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.199.58] has joined #lisp 10:28:38 -!- Intensity [2FuT6PkDFS@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Quit: Intensity] 10:30:16 -!- p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:30:46 Intensity [3rhAJf5ZUu@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 10:31:33 p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 10:32:23 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.104.106.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 10:32:50 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 10:34:59 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau`` 10:49:24 -!- kwertii [~kwertii@ResNet-32-110.resnet.ucsb.edu] has quit [Quit: bye] 10:49:26 -!- p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:49:30 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-64-20.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 10:49:50 -!- vng [~vng@1.139.39-62.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 10:50:15 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 10:51:02 vng [~vng@1.139.39-62.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 10:55:37 -!- dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:56:34 could anyone pinpoint me a good URL/HTTP/whateverweb library for parsing HTML files in CL? 10:56:48 requesting sorry 10:56:50 not parsing 10:57:10 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:57:12 drakma I guess 10:57:31 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.162.242] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:57:47 Requesting them from where? Do you mean an http library? 10:58:48 Joreji [~thomas@93-004.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 10:58:50 I need to grab the value of a variable inside some JavaScript of a web page 10:58:59 p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 10:59:33 blkt: I used a library called xmls to do very basic HTML shredding; would be of no help digging into the Javascript, though 10:59:49 why no help? 11:00:37 blkt: because it doesn't parse javascript? 11:00:45 Blkt: closure-html parses html very well. 11:00:53 Blkt: to http-request these files, I use drakma 11:01:08 to process the files, cxml-stp is very good. 11:01:16 (I mean, to process the parse tree) 11:01:39 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-188-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 11:01:51 thank you guys 11:01:57 that's more than enaugh to start with 11:02:31 tompa [~tompa@h59ec27fb.sehjjak.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #lisp 11:02:59 see http://github.com/antifuchs/clsem for how I use them (but the code is a bit convoluted (-:) 11:03:37 -!- tompa [~tompa@h59ec27fb.sehjjak.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has left #lisp 11:03:41 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-188-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:04:23 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:04:55 antivigilante [~antivigil@63-225-203-9.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 11:05:43 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-170-156.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 11:05:44 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:05:45 -!- Blkt [~user@93-33-134-2.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:08:13 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-64-20.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:08:36 -!- Joreji [~thomas@93-004.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:09:14 -!- ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:09:33 ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 11:09:43 -!- pierrep [~ppasteau@bas1-montreal43-2925385290.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:18:05 -!- abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:19:59 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 11:22:34 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:22:48 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 11:29:04 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 11:29:04 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:31:11 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-121.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:32:03 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:40:50 -!- p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:41:18 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-zuqwsgudykqixomo] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:41:21 -!- attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:42:48 p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 11:43:26 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 11:49:23 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:50:14 urandom__ [~user@p548A7B16.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:52:01 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:52:35 sellout [~greg@64.134.67.12] has joined #lisp 11:53:12 drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 11:53:18 tfb [~tfb@92.41.184.128.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:53:49 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-231-54.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:53:57 -!- kvsari [~kvsari@203.171.93.21.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:54:53 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:56:19 abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 12:02:28 kslt1 [~Sierka1@netblock-208-127-156-74.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 12:02:29 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-119-127.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:02:47 -!- p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:03:10 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-jvhsncwlypnjfwhi] has joined #lisp 12:03:27 <_3b> the ccl/windows init file should be in (merge-pathnames ".ccl-init.lisp" (user-homedir-pathname)), right? 12:03:50 it also reads ccl-init.lisp iirc. 12:04:28 <_3b> ah, that one worked, thanks 12:04:41 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-188-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 12:04:56 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 12:04:56 you mean .ccl-init.lisp does *not* work on windows? 12:05:04 i thought it would use the first one it found 12:05:07 <_3b> didn't work for me 12:05:10 argh 12:06:41 *_3b* nominates user-initfile-pathname for cltl3 12:07:14 that would be a fine idea 12:07:16 make it a CDR? 12:07:53 _3b: the semantics are complicated 12:08:20 in some implementations, there's actually a list of names that are tried in order, and the first one found wins. 12:08:25 <_3b> yeah, i'm not sure what it would actually do :p 12:08:40 *Xach* is trying to get that working in quicklisp so it can add itself to the startup file. 12:08:51 cmucl, ccl, and clisp are all messing with me. 12:09:08 allegro probably will too 12:09:17 <_3b> though i guess it could either return a list, or return the first one that exists, or preferred one if none exist 12:09:20 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-117-214.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 12:09:28 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.48.181] has joined #lisp 12:09:47 p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 12:11:43 Xach: That list is shorter than I'd expect. 12:12:13 It'll probably grow. 12:17:16 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:18:26 p_l|home [~pl@79.187.159.210] has joined #lisp 12:18:38 -!- froydnj [~froydnj@gateway.codesourcery.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:24:08 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 12:24:37 -!- weirdo [~sthalik@sthalik.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:25:05 weirdo [~sthalik@sthalik.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 12:25:41 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-170-156.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:26:56 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-174-110.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 12:27:36 tama [~tama@2001:0:53aa:64c:4b6:5340:b85b:157c] has joined #lisp 12:28:02 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-174-110.vologda.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 12:28:27 hi, I found a copy of Successful Lisp in the basement, and I was wondering if it's a good book to get familiar with lisp (again) 12:28:38 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-174-110.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 12:28:59 -!- drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:29:39 wvdschel: i haven't read it, but i've heard positive things about it. 12:30:02 wvdschel: Practical Common Lisp is also quite nice, and you can read it online while you wait for it to arrive from amazon. 12:30:15 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has joined #lisp 12:31:30 Xach, I currently have no money, none at all :P 12:31:49 wvdschel: don't worry, just start reading, pay back when you earn a paycheck :P 12:31:55 wvdschel: then perhaps it will be a long wait... 12:38:40 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.75.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:38:48 serichsen [~user@hmbg-4d06f04b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 12:39:23 Hello! 12:44:57 -!- p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: KILLED] 12:47:29 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-jvhsncwlypnjfwhi] has left #lisp 12:49:50 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:53:38 -!- weirdo [~sthalik@sthalik.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:53:45 Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 12:54:18 salva_ [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 12:54:29 mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has joined #lisp 12:54:30 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@89.145.84.152] has quit [Changing host] 12:54:30 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 12:55:45 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-188-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:56:53 -!- salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:56:53 -!- salva_ is now known as salva 12:58:46 salva_ [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 12:59:40 fiveop [~fiveop@p5B28362B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:01:54 -!- salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:01:54 -!- salva_ is now known as salva 13:03:49 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-188-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 13:04:09 has anyone written anything good about topic of continuous updating of *production* lisp image? 13:04:43 (maybe not to Erlang's level, that would be rather hard) 13:04:45 here: "don't do that" 13:05:42 more to the point, Espen Vestre wrote something interesting on the topic several years ago on c.l.l (I'm not about to brave google groups right now, sorry) 13:06:34 and it wasn't "don't do that", but more about a patching system they had developed 13:10:04 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:11:00 schoppenhauer [~senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 13:11:15 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #lisp 13:11:29 brb 13:12:25 flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has joined #lisp 13:13:23 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 13:15:08 -!- salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:18:29 loxs [~loxs@213.169.45.106] has joined #lisp 13:23:12 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:23:44 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 13:25:58 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-117-214.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:26:34 found his posts 13:28:08 p_l: care to share a link? 13:28:19 i'm just curious at the moment 13:29:36 http://www.google.com/url?url=http://groups.google.com/g/02d7ff0b/t/3b2fca8fa6db209f/d/f9e3a2dd1eee0e30%3Fq%3D%2522comp.lang.lisp%2522%2B%2522Deploying%2Bpatches%2Bto%2Brunning%2522%23f9e3a2dd1eee0e30&ei=NT-jTKewA4aS_AatoZ2iCw&sa=t&ct=res&cd=1&source=groups&usg=AFQjCNF2yCKih0csSRE6tEIf3ywBiVpo-g 13:30:28 http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/browse_thread/thread/596dfd0efde61a65/075ae394d7d406bf?lnk=gst&q=%22Espen+Vestre%22+update# <-- another 13:30:54 apropos [~apropos@89-168-187-13.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 13:32:34 silenius [~silenus@p549461E0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:32:34 -!- Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:32:48 salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 13:33:16 yes, the problem seems interesting 13:33:45 could probably do some magic with cross-referencing stuff to figure out what stuff is safe to replace, and in what order 13:33:56 and installing temporary trampolines and stuff 13:34:39 stuff stuff 13:36:34 sabalaba [~sabalaba@114.240.88.110] has joined #lisp 13:37:33 -!- naiv_ [~naiv@ARennes-553-1-85-192.w86-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:37:39 btw, if anybody cares to help (i should read the spec instead): if the code has calls to functions using FUNCALL or APPLY, but the functions are specified using the FUNCTION special form (e.g., #'function), will these call sites be updated on global function redefinition? 13:37:53 (i'm talking about global functions) 13:38:05 #'function should actually be #'symbol 13:38:28 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:38:44 nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-134-127.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 13:38:45 nasal deamon territory, afaik 13:40:23 nasal daemons would be a stretch i guess, just a territory of nasty surprises in the "bad" case, i guess 13:40:55 but anyway i was going through the weblocks code base, and the code is littered with FUNCTION use 13:41:01 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@114.240.88.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:41:18 in some cases even incorrectly i seem to remember 13:43:25 tsuru [~charlie@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:43:30 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:43:46 I believe that it depends on if they are compiled into the same file as the call site. 13:44:01 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:44:45 If so, it need not notice redefinitions, otherwise it should, from memory. 13:45:04 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:45:10 thoolihan [~Tim@66.181.74.184] has joined #lisp 13:45:15 Zhivago: ok, thanks. 13:45:26 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-216-166.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:45:30 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-216-166.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:46:16 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:47:15 Have a look in the compilation model constraints thingy chapter to check. 13:48:10 Zhivago: sure, was just checking for quick support of my gut feeling that the FUNCTION special form should be used with care, not willy-nilly 13:48:59 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-253-121.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 13:49:04 etenil [~etenil@82.45.133.100] has joined #lisp 13:49:09 -!- flip214 [~marek@2001:858:107:1:baac:6fff:fe6b:9183] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:50:53 Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:51:01 jdz: Erlang is still the king of runtime update 13:51:28 p_l: yes, but you could do that in CL as well; it's just not built in 13:51:33 froydnj [~froydnj@gateway.codesourcery.com] has joined #lisp 13:52:05 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:52:07 this is related to my recent curiosity about package/API versioning 13:52:27 a matter of pervasive additional levels of indirection 13:52:37 jdz: yes, but certain elements of CL make such stuff much harder (Erlang kinda forces single assignment, which allows transactional updates) 13:53:22 p_l: nobody forces you to use destructive operations in CL :) 13:53:41 (and even then Erlang runtime update requires discipline and coding that fits with OTP) 13:53:43 sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has joined #lisp 13:53:53 p_l: exactly, it requires discipline 13:53:56 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-qvarwxrhylctcqui] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:54:05 pierrep [~ppasteau@bas1-montreal43-2925385290.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 13:54:13 -!- apropos [~apropos@89-168-187-13.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has left #lisp 13:54:54 *p_l|home* would like to replicate the model used by IMVU for his company 13:56:59 ok, what's IMVU? 13:57:03 p_l|home: Which model? 13:57:17 jdz: "3d" avatar chat/IM program. 13:57:25 -!- sellout [~greg@64.134.67.12] has quit [Quit: sellout] 13:57:28 jdz: it's Second Life thingy, but what impressed me is how fast they do their developement process 13:57:30 nyef: ok, then i found the right one :) 13:58:06 Heh. I'd like that kind of cycle time, too, but I haven't figured out how to make SBCL build in ten minutes or less. 13:58:08 from developer to production, it's matter of running a single script 13:58:10 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:58:20 nyef: XCVB parallel building? :D 13:58:36 Have you -seen- the dependencies involved? 13:58:39 in-image updates? 13:58:50 though that opens the road to CMUCL madness 13:59:19 Isn't that why everyone else developed processes? :) 13:59:37 i dunno if it's relevant, but you guys know how Google Chrome is doing updates? 13:59:47 using kind of binary diffs 13:59:57 jdz: yes, but it does classic restart 13:59:58 which uses executable's symbol table 14:00:07 p_l: yeah :) 14:00:35 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:00:43 jdz: Windows 95 included a patch library that repaired *broken* code on startup 14:01:10 they had this list of checksums of various apps and code parts that they identified and binary patched them on load 14:01:28 -!- wvdschel [~wim@mansamusa.elis.UGent.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:01:40 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:05:11 Can a struct have a slot which depends on the size of a previous slot? 14:05:41 rrice [~rrice@99.164.51.222] has joined #lisp 14:07:18 yes 14:07:44 rrice1 [~rrice@adsl-99-164-107-208.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:08:06 -!- rrice1 [~rrice@adsl-99-164-107-208.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:08:49 rrice1 [~rrice@adsl-99-164-107-208.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:09:09 stassats: Is there any special way to do so? I have a slot "size" and slot "buff" which I want to initialize to (make-array size), but sbcl complains about undefined variable "size" 14:09:11 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:09:31 -!- rrice1 [~rrice@adsl-99-164-107-208.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:09:59 rrice1 [~rrice@adsl-99-164-107-208.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:10:08 -!- rrice [~rrice@99.164.51.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:10:26 -!- rrice1 [~rrice@adsl-99-164-107-208.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:10:33 there is no special way 14:12:17 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-64-102.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:13:01 Joreji [~thomas@93-004.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:13:16 sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:14:25 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:16:07 -!- Joreji [~thomas@93-004.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:18:37 Joreji [~thomas@93-004.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:18:41 quad: You could consider a method upon make-instance, or some-such. 14:19:22 quad: Assuming that you're doing what I think you're doing, your code is referring to size in the lexical environment of the class definition. 14:19:29 Quadrescence: You could show some code, using http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp 14:19:40 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 14:20:38 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 14:20:58 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-174-110.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:23:02 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:24:42 arnsholt [~arne@1x-193-157-202-108.uio.no] has joined #lisp 14:27:08 I have a loop (somewhat adapted from the original) (loop for k being each hash-key in hash for v being each hash-value in hash for total = (loop for val across v summing val) do (code-goes-here)) 14:27:45 In clisp the loop never runs, in sbcl it runs as intended. Any ideas what I might've messed up? 14:29:14 redline6561 [~redline@gate-30.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 14:31:48 -!- kslt1 [~Sierka1@netblock-208-127-156-74.dslextreme.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:32:28 -!- salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:32:36 sugarshark [~ole@p4FDA877A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:33:39 arnsholt: if you want help, provide the exact code that causes the problem -- something people can paste in emacs & run 14:34:42 have you tried to get a backtrace ? 14:35:04 maybe the bt has some hints 14:35:45 arnsholt: did you want (loop for key being each hash-key in hash-table using (hash-value value) ...) ? 14:36:44 sonnym [~evissecer@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has joined #lisp 14:38:36 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-231-54.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:40:23 stassats: That did the trick. Cheers! 14:42:59 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:43:03 -!- loxs [~loxs@213.169.45.106] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:53:48 /quit 14:53:52 -!- p_l|home [~pl@79.187.159.210] has quit [Quit: cya] 14:54:32 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:56:01 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:56:23 salva_ [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 14:56:43 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A7B16.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:56:59 -!- salva_ is now known as salva 14:58:48 -!- silenius [~silenus@p549461E0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:58:56 -!- Joreji [~thomas@93-004.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:59:43 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hy-ovpn2-107.vpn.helsinki.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:00:13 -!- mvilleneuve 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has joined #lisp 18:55:24 -!- Edward_ [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-21-116.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 18:55:40 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-5-145.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:56:41 brandlee [~brandlee@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 18:56:45 slyrus [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:45 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.166.149.142] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:01:52 lipsage 19:02:01 hysterical that sbcl needs a lisp to compile 19:02:04 awesome 19:02:07 screw c centricness 19:02:17 the_unmaker: well, it needs a C compiler too 19:02:27 oh? 19:02:55 Yes, some small percentage of the code is in C. 19:02:57 easier to get all the system-specific stuff from a C runtime 19:03:00 I had aa devil ofa time getting clisp compiled as a user, readline wouldnt cooperate even though I compiled it 19:03:07 -lreadline nto found error 19:03:12 orbley some ldconfig thing 19:03:21 not having rot can stink esp on readhat crap linux 19:03:30 Nah, missed something in the LDFLAGS or similar. 19:03:35 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.59.156] has joined #lisp 19:03:45 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7540df.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:03:51 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-230-225.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:26 probably you didn't have the readline-devel package installed. 19:05:33 -!- sugarshark [~ole@p4FDA877A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:06:11 even clisp needs a lisp to compile, it just happens to include one written in C 19:06:40 wasn't ACL bootstrapped from Lisp? (though they still use C for some OS-related runtime?) 19:06:45 or was it LW? 19:07:45 -!- Joreji [~thomas@93-004.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:08:33 (CMUCL *was* started this way, but I'm not sure I'd recommend it to anyone looking to "compile everything from sources" xD) 19:08:43 Hun [~hun@95-89-69-55-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 19:09:17 I know -how- to go about making SBCL build without the C runtime component, but it's not worth the trouble. 19:09:39 (To get an idea of how, look for my old sbcl-os hack.) 19:10:03 nyef: lots of groveling, I presume? 19:10:12 or just bare-metal sbcl? 19:10:16 *p_l|uni* considered rewriting it so that SBCL wouldn't need C to compile, but it simply means a LAP subsystem generating necessary stuff) 19:10:17 Bare-metal. 19:10:39 Or, yes, lots of groveling, or writing the required data in by hand. 19:10:59 p_l|uni: You mean like the assembly-routines? 19:11:09 *starseeker* recalls bootstrapping discussions - It's Not Easy 19:11:29 nyef: yes, except I was thinking of setting up a whole DSL for such stuff (called BASTARD) 19:11:44 -!- Aisling [ash@blk-222-192-36.eastlink.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:11:56 I've got a tree somewhere in which I moved all of x86-64-assem.S over from the runtime to the core. 19:12:37 the actual reason for the DSL project was unrelated to bootstrapping SBCL itself, but for bootstrapping a machine from literal bare-metal - i.e., writing code that would be then loaded through JTAG and which would be the start of programming environment 19:13:09 Heh. Sounds like SBCL-os might be just what you needed. 19:13:16 *rtoym* hasn't been able to build a clisp with readline in ages. I just gave up on that. 19:13:28 -!- jewel [~jewel@196.210.187.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:14:38 And speaking of clisp problems, the debian package failed to install on my system a while back (the updater tried to install it). 19:15:58 And it's been even longer since I've been able to build gcl. Curiously, the last successful gcl build was on (gasp!) Solaris, of all places. 19:19:21 ehu: Around? 19:19:31 rtoym: yup. 19:19:43 hi. 19:20:09 I've misplaced the paste with the maxima bugs with abcl. Do you happen to have a link? 19:20:22 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:20:23 yea. hold on. 19:20:41 http://paste.lisp.org/display/114882 19:21:18 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:22:23 p_l|uni: that actually sounds like an interesting project - have a website? 19:22:42 *starseeker* had such thoughts some time back, but has never had the leasure to play with them 19:22:45 nullkuhl [~nullkuhl@196.221.230.20] has joined #lisp 19:22:56 Blkt [~user@93-33-134-28.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 19:23:04 ehu: Do you have time to do a couple of maxima experiments? If so, perhaps we should move to #maxima. 19:23:34 starseeker: no yet, had other issues to go through last year 19:23:46 starseeker: right now I'm working on the system it was supposed to run on :) 19:23:52 hehe :-) 19:23:59 know how that goes 19:24:08 good evening everyone 19:24:16 starseeker: my goal is to build a complete workstation in 3 years (from now) time 19:25:25 Joreji [~thomas@93-004.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 19:25:40 p_l|uni: for a few hundred dollars, you can get a playstation in considerably fewer than 3 years. 19:26:03 Xach: I'm not interested in yet-another-MIPS/ARM 19:26:19 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-095-200.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:27:04 Krystof [~csr21@78.146.236.83] has joined #lisp 19:27:11 and the FPGA version of the hw I plan on making easily reprogrammable (i.e. "I want to make it into ! Fine, just reprogram this and this with your own Verilog/VHDL") 19:27:15 -!- starseeker [~starseeke@BZ.BZFLAG.BZ] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:27:38 -!- cmm- [~cmm@bzq-109-64-205-76.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:27:50 starseeker [~starseeke@BZ.BZFLAG.BZ] has joined #lisp 19:28:35 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-64-205-76.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:28:45 Hey, wait. Wasn't someone already doing that with Lisp? Something about domain-specific languages for VHDL generation, and custom hardware for various tasks? 19:29:07 Marc Battyani 19:29:24 nyef: there's a company in France using Lisp for FPGA developement. What I was thinking was to implement in hw a full workstation, with MMIX cpu 19:29:45 ... Yup. Thought I had a hash-collision on that one. I was thinking of a different MB name. 19:29:49 -!- tama is now known as coyo 19:29:57 -!- coyo [~tama@2001:0:53aa:64c:104c:321b:b85b:157c] has quit [Changing host] 19:29:57 coyo [~tama@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 19:30:16 -!- wareya_ [~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:30:59 wareya [~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:32:52 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-89-168.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:33:05 -!- loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:33:10 Jabberwockey [~jens@hmbg-5f762e1d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:35:07 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:38:31 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 19:40:49 -!- schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:41:38 schmrkc [~marcus@c83-254-197-212.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 19:41:38 -!- schmrkc [~marcus@c83-254-197-212.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Changing host] 19:41:38 schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 19:43:39 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-095-200.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 19:47:07 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-vxty.basistech.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:48:14 -!- salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:49:23 implement unix in LISP! 19:49:29 er 19:49:41 I know nossing! 19:50:17 sbcl-os where is that? 19:50:51 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 19:51:07 gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 19:54:15 -!- rpg|away is now known as rpg 19:54:34 -!- benny [~benny@i577A1DFC.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:56:14 dwilliamii [~w@72.214.103.209] has joined #lisp 19:57:07 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:58:50 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@64.254.165.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:01:37 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.68] has joined #lisp 20:01:38 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:02:59 *splittist* quickloads salza2 just 'cos he can 20:03:08 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has left #lisp 20:03:42 aerique [~euqirea@aerique.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 20:04:07 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 20:04:23 -!- skalawag [~user@c75-111-102-202.amrlcmta01.tx.dh.suddenlink.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:05:32 salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 20:06:11 Aisling [ash@blk-222-192-36.eastlink.ca] has joined #lisp 20:06:16 compress, friend 20:08:13 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-188-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:12:50 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 20:15:10 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-24-23-182-253.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 20:15:45 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl21-79-57.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 20:16:22 -!- fualo is now known as vsbuffalo 20:17:32 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:20:51 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7540df.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:02 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:24:49 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.59.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:24:59 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.68] has joined #lisp 20:26:14 urandom__ [~user@p548A2FD9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:26:16 Ok. Cmucl 20b announcement done. Finally. 20:27:43 20b! stuff is moving forward! (: 20:29:24 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-095-200.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:30:19 wee 20:33:02 -!- Hun [~hun@95-89-69-55-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:37:53 damn, lisp-unit.lisp /is/ easy to pick up 20:38:11 and hard to let go? 20:38:22 yep, that's why i like it: practically no overhead 20:39:16 antifuchs: It's not totally dead; it just smells like it. 20:39:18 stassats: haven't tried yet :) 20:39:33 rtoym: by which you mean, binaries might not be available? <-; 20:39:43 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:39:48 rtoym: just kidding, sorry, I'm glad cmucl is making progress 20:39:55 rtoym: that would make it the CLest of CL implementations! 20:40:15 antifuchs: Heh. Some binaries are available. Just not as many as there used to be. 20:40:51 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-095-200.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 20:41:11 aerique: CLest? I don't get it. 20:41:45 CL-est (most CL) 20:42:01 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-140-168.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 20:42:27 Hun [~hun@95-89-69-55-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 20:42:28 molbdnilo [~Ove@c80-216-202-29.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:43:33 Well, sbcl is pretty CLest too. 20:44:51 rvirding [~chatzilla@h19n4c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 20:44:53 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 20:46:29 rtoym: i meant wrt to the "It's not totally dead; it just smells like it" statement :) 20:46:47 Oh. Heh. Ok. 20:49:31 -!- rpg is now known as rpg|away 20:50:52 gonzojive [~red@171.66.81.188] has joined #lisp 20:51:40 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 20:55:03 ehks [~user@207.188.29.244] has joined #lisp 20:55:49 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.68] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:56:49 -!- drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:59:43 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:02:18 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:02:37 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:03:31 patric [~chatzilla@c-14bee555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 21:03:33 patapra [~patapra@74.196.224.26] has joined #lisp 21:04:09 hi, im having some lisp syntax issues. i feel pretty confident my algorithm is right; just not implemented correctly in lisp 21:05:29 -!- mephisto_ [~mephisto@CPE00163625fbf5-CM00407b85ff2a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:05:52 Syntax and algorithm seem, umm, unrelated topics. 21:05:59 it says the paste is available in #lisp but i dont see it 21:06:03 heres a link: http://paste.lisp.org/display/115038 21:06:16 -!- sepp2k [~sexy@p548CD760.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: sepp2k] 21:07:01 moves is a list of triplets i.e. (1 2 3) 21:07:05 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-095-200.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:07:53 So moves looks like ((1 2 3) (4 5 6) ...) or just (1 2 3)? 21:07:57 theoretically, it should be doing a depth-first search but once it loops through the first set of moves for each board-state, it just starts returning nil 21:08:03 the former 21:08:19 patapra: don't leave fingernail clippings over your source like that 21:08:38 haha.. my prof had me do that since i was having trouble matching the parens 21:08:47 i mostly did it to make him happy 21:09:24 make-move returns the board state after the move has been made 21:09:32 patapra: alright, could you answer rtoym's question please :) 21:09:41 i did. sorry i didnt tag it 21:09:57 rtoym: the former, meaning ((1 2 3) (4 5 6)) 21:10:22 patapra: sorry i missed that 21:10:36 to be more precise: (start-pos end-pos jumped-pos) 21:10:48 but thats irrelevant i guess 21:11:01 -!- Hun [~hun@95-89-69-55-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:12:25 i can provide the whole code if it'll make it easier to see the output 21:13:04 Well, I would trace solve-it, make-move, and get-all-valid-moves. I bet that will show the bug pretty quickly. 21:13:12 i did 21:13:21 patapra: that would help, my guess is with append not doing what you think it should, but my concentration is low atm (time for bed) 21:13:49 yeah i believe append is part of the problem 21:14:29 heres what id like to happen.. for board-state 1, there are moves ((r s t) (u v w)) 21:14:58 it makes move (r s t) and calls recursively with the updated board-state 21:15:23 finds all the moves and makes the first, updates the board-state, and recurses and so on 21:15:38 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:15:50 in the end.. id like to have a separate list for each traversal it made 21:16:17 -!- antivigilante [~antivigil@63-225-203-9.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:16:19 -!- Jabberwockey [~jens@hmbg-5f762e1d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:17:57 -!- Kaer [b@c-cfcee253.97-16-64736c12.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit 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0.3.2] 21:32:47 patapra: I think that setq does not do what you think it does. 21:34:06 patapra: I think that you want to use `let` there. 21:36:02 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:38:14 bgs100 [~ian@h20.46.186.173.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:14 -!- bgs100 [~ian@h20.46.186.173.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:38:14 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 21:42:31 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-095-200.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 21:48:24 timack [~tim@hlfx57-2b-94.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 21:48:25 -!- humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:49:43 -!- splittist [~John@80.169.130.126] has quit [Quit: enough fun for 2nite] 21:52:15 -!- p_l|uni [~pl@hgd210.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:52:48 -!- patapra [~patapra@74.196.224.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:53:53 -!- lolsuper_ 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has joined #lisp 22:20:36 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.92.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:21:04 hello, how do you: for F in a b c;do echo $F; done in lisp? 22:21:44 (dolist (f '(a b c)) (print f)) 22:21:54 approximately 22:21:58 interesting 22:22:06 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.48.181] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:22:11 lemoinem [~swoog@108-74-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 22:22:22 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.48.181] has joined #lisp 22:22:27 <_3b> (loop for f in (list a b c) do (echo f)) ? 22:22:41 no points for you 22:22:44 cool 22:23:10 is that a built in echo or shell export? 22:23:25 _3b: shell is, kind of, quoted by default 22:23:48 <_3b> ECHO is left as an exercise for the reader :p 22:24:05 how sweet 22:24:10 <_3b> tcr: oh yeah, dunno why i changed that 22:24:30 <_3b> drake1: more likely you would use print as Xach suggested 22:24:48 fine 22:25:23 what does '(a b c) mean? 22:25:56 <_3b> '(a b c) reads as (quote (a b c)), which evaluates to the list (a b c) 22:26:12 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-095-200.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:26:20 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:26:27 <_3b> a literal list of 3 symbols, named (probably) "A", "B" and "C" 22:26:38 This is the point where we usually suggest to pick a book about Lisp 22:27:03 like foreach $f (@list) { ... } in perl? 22:27:22 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@108-74-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:27:27 No 22:27:51 drake1: it will probably save you some pain if you avoid trying to translate from other languages into lisp and just learn lisp on its own terms. 22:27:53 -!- brandlee [~brandlee@84.114.246.246] has quit [Quit: brandlee] 22:27:57 abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:13 lemoinem [~swoog@227-74-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:44 _3b: #.(ECHO)? 22:28:45 ;) 22:28:47 Xach: typically I learn by similar sequences in other languages 22:29:12 fatblued` [~user@99-188-214-127.lightspeed.grgvca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:29:15 '(a b c) would be lost after the evaluation? 22:29:26 drake1: Now you have a nice chance to learn to learn in a new way :) 22:29:31 <_3b> 'lost'? 22:29:43 -!- fatblued` [~user@99-188-214-127.lightspeed.grgvca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:29:46 schmrkc: fine 22:29:47 fatblued` [~user@rrcs-67-52-188-98.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:29:48 -!- fatblueduck [~user@rrcs-67-52-188-98.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:30:16 drake1: ' will stop the evaluation. :) 22:30:40 drake1: QUOTE returns the quoted version of its argument. It basically gives you a first-class, literal version of the code. 22:31:00 perfect 22:31:16 must be hard to compile 22:31:57 why? 22:32:32 don't you allow arbitrary arithmetic and symbols in '( )s? 22:33:00 QUOTE returns its argument as a literal. 22:33:06 kvsari [~kvsari@203.171.93.21.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:33:11 no evaluation happens within QUOTE. 22:33:43 then it's like { "a", "b", "c", } in C? 22:34:06 drake1: kind of  I think you really need to pick up a lisp book. 22:34:23 drake1: '(5+ +23+ +t +2+vc+sd+ "!!!" %? 2+) no problem 22:34:40 drake1: or (setf x 1) 22:34:44 sellout, who's the best author? 22:34:49 sthat's not quire right 22:34:52 drake1: what sellout said. The answer to your question is "Not really". CL is not C. 22:34:56 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 22:35:08 minion: tell drake1 about that dead sexy book 22:35:09 drake1: i don't know what you're referring to 22:35:11 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 22:35:13 sykopomp, but close to 22:35:18 sellout: hyphens 22:35:19 drake1: no 22:35:25 minion: tell drake1 about that-dead-sexy-book 22:35:26 drake1: direct your attention towards that-dead-sexy-book: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 22:35:54 thanks 22:36:01 minion: tell drakel about gentle 22:36:02 drakel: look at gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 22:36:12 drake1: It's similiar in that both are literals, albeit for quite different things 22:36:48 *sellout* thinks "gentle" is good for non-programmers, and PCL is good for C++/Java programmers. 22:37:00 tcr: in the case of CL, for example, '(+ 1 2) constructs a list with first-class objects in them, which can also be evaluated to execute a call. 22:37:02 err 22:37:03 drake1: 22:37:15 dreish [~dreish@2002:cf8a:2fad:0:21f:5bff:fe35:ae0d] has joined #lisp 22:37:18 and then {  } in C might not be a real literal but may only be used in certain contexts 22:37:44 sykopomp, ok 22:38:09 tcr: true 22:38:21 pretty similar 22:38:57 Wait we just tried to convince you of the opposite conclusion 22:39:03 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:39:05 or it is pretty different. 22:39:12 cats and dogs are pretty similar too 22:39:44 that { would switch the token type by context and the list could be evaluated. not the biggest difference I could imagine 22:39:46 so are apples and oranges 22:40:22 *tcr* shrugs 22:40:33 sykopomp: I have some oranges right here. Gonna eat one. 22:41:23 schmrkc: That's what I'm about to do with this apple! 22:42:27 -!- serichsen [~user@hmbg-4d06f04b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Good night!] 22:42:31 sellout: I guess they really are pretty similar then :) 22:43:03 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:44:46 *sytse* had some cox oranges here 22:44:58 ..which means, that I had apples 22:45:05 but no longer, I ate them all :( 22:45:47 ephcon [~ephcon@64.254.165.107] has joined #lisp 22:46:44 how could you say something like: unsigned char *lba_cmd = DISKA BASE5 LARGE; ? 22:46:47 Hmm.. so it seems lisp hackers are a very healthy eating bunch 22:47:18 *sykopomp* calls troll now. 22:47:19 diska base5 large? 22:47:21 *sykopomp* finds something better to do. 22:47:34 sytse: macro strings 22:48:03 macro or #define constants? 22:48:15 What do you think the answer to that question will reveal to you? 22:48:23 ephcon_ [~ephcon@64.254.165.107] has joined #lisp 22:48:34 tcr: are you asking me or drake1? :P 22:48:50 drake1: Are you trying to translate some C code line-by-line? 22:49:10 systse: macro tokens that substitute a string concatenation 22:49:54 sellout: not at all. only little bites 22:50:18 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:50:20 drake1: You really just need to read. That's not something you _would_ say in lisp. You need a lot more context to decide how you would accomplish the same goal. 22:50:31 it would be a good idea to start thinking in a different way.. what you're asking is how to learn to write lisp in the same way as learning to speak spanish by first composing an english sentence, then do word-for-word translation, then hussling about the words a bit and possibly adding some words until it 'fits' 22:50:43 -!- Joreji [~thomas@93-004.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:50:46 sellout: Im not even sure I want to learn it 22:50:50 srolls [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 22:51:13 drake1: Well, the questions you're asking here won't help you decide  the beginning of PCL might, though. 22:51:18 sytse: quite yes 22:51:20 drake1: then don't try to waste other people's time instead of just grabbing a book that you don't even have to pay for? 22:51:42 He seems to be programming by applying a rule-based AI system 22:51:48 sellout: might show the extras and the goodies 22:52:11 PCL shows plenty of extras and goodies. 22:52:14 the extras and goodies are actually in things that are so alien to C that you wouldn't even think of them as a C programmer :) 22:52:15 drake1: The book will do a better job of that. 22:52:24 ^ 22:52:40 (REAL macro's, for instance) 22:52:41 hehe heh. crazy 22:52:51 or CLOS 22:52:54 drake1: How would you do it in shell, or perl? 22:53:18 tcr: echo unsigned char ... > file.c 22:53:26 tcr: in perl you'd obviously write a regexp that parses your configuration file ;-) 22:53:29 I mean, duh ;-) 22:53:32 then $(CC) && ./a.out 22:54:14 <_3b> well, you can write a .c file and call cc from lisp too 22:55:06 I do find it a very significant feature of lisp, that you can write code in LISP though :] 22:55:58 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:55:59 drake1: anyway, lisp is awesome. I guess that's the answer to all your questions 22:56:19 good 22:57:01 (it's got lots of drawbacks, too, which will become clear when you learn it; and after that, you'll learn that the drawbacks have advantages too) 22:57:04 I'm coding linker script ATM, only out for some relief 22:57:14 gheh 22:57:23 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:57:30 .data 0 : AT(ALIGN(... blah blah blah 22:58:02 Joreji [~thomas@93-004.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 22:58:43 *sytse* wouldn't like to code lisp without emacs nearly as much though.. YMMV 22:59:11 that's what I thought 22:59:18 (simply writing an sexp and hitting a keycombo sending it to sbcl is very addicting) 22:59:30 maybe some script could analyze and convert the pc 22:59:44 using vim + clisp seemed to work well enough for PG 22:59:48 there is slime for vim if you use that, could be good enough 22:59:52 it ain't SLIME, though :) 23:00:00 correction, 'slime' for vim 23:00:03 personally I code in ``cat'' and ``ed'' 23:00:10 it's for the mama 23:00:20 ed ftw 23:00:22 must.. resist... 23:00:37 ed is the fatest 23:00:42 fastest* 23:00:51 clhs ed 23:01:00 !!! 23:01:07 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_ed.htm 23:01:09 then pipe stdin throung the combo script 23:01:19 Lisp can do that. 23:01:22 gonzojive [~red@171.66.75.252] has joined #lisp 23:01:32 drake1: unless you're running on a post-1970s computer, in which case ed's speed advantage isn't noticeable 23:01:34 tic [~tic@c83-249-196-184.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 23:01:54 sytse: I mean for navigation 23:03:07 nah, both vim and emacs are quicker to use 23:03:31 depending on what you want 23:04:41 anyway, I need to get some more work done and go to bed 23:05:01 in ed you can quickly g/JUNK/d what you said in cat 23:05:34 :%/JUNK/d is equally fast.. (vim) 23:05:38 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:05:44 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:05:46 and in emacs you can define a key combo yourself to do it even faster 23:06:07 vi is also good. their scripting can't measure up with LISP I guess 23:06:25 (M-x replace-string and M-x replace-regexp aren't bound by default iirc) 23:06:31 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-40-82-251-172-184.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:06:59 Buganini [~buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 23:07:08 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:07:22 mm, and for /blah/d you'd need to write about 5 lines of elisp to get an equivalent in emacs I think.. 23:07:57 How about that DEFCLASS, huh? 23:08:47 how about loop 23:08:55 I like iterate meself 23:08:59 sytse: M-% and C-M-%, although I cannot manage to bend my fingers for thatappropriately 23:09:06 and easy-to-use singly linked lists 23:09:08 so how do we ITERATE in C, vim, and ed? 23:09:19 iterate what? 23:09:24 I've coded some of the most wicked shell script's with heredocs and ed, lisp might do it more flawlessly 23:09:27 in vim I do it with %s 23:09:46 bougyman: iterate, the splendid loop replacement 23:10:08 schmrkc: i'm familiar with iterate, i generally do vim scripting in ruby so I get real iterators. 23:10:24 but iterate just means "act on this set one at a time", no? 23:10:25 tcr: ah.. I guess I'll rebind those to the non-query equivalents, because I use them more often 23:10:27 bougyman: I was just kidding. I dont care how one does anything i anything :) 23:10:45 sytse: ! will replace all occurences 23:10:47 (although C-M-S-5 is ridiculous to type..) 23:10:48 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-16-132.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:10:49 ah 23:12:08 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:12:13 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-217-149.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:14:36 what's the best LISP compiler for Emacs? 23:15:16 ccl or sbcl would be good options 23:15:31 drake1: btw, one of the biggest advantages of lisp MUST be, obviously, the ability to write wonderful, completely unreadable code who's sole purpose in life is something that makes no sense at all in any other language ;-) 23:15:40 PCL has this one: (defmacro once-only ((&rest names) &body body) (let ((gensyms (loop for n in names collect (gensym)))) `(let (,@(loop for g in gensyms collect `(,g (gensym)))) `(let (,,@(loop for g in gensyms for n in names collect ``(,,g ,,n))) ,(let (,@(loop for n in names for g in gensyms collect `(,n ,g))) ,@body))))) 23:15:49 schmrkc, danke schone :) 23:16:27 sytse, thats just wonderful 23:16:31 homie` [~user@xdsl-87-79-55-78.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:16:33 wbooze` [~user@xdsl-87-79-55-78.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:17:26 sytse: I seriously try to keep my macros simple 23:18:03 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-216-166.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:18:34 like: #define adj(obj) adj ## obj 23:18:37 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-216-166.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:19:02 drake1: C does have some fantastic obfuscatory features too though, like for example this, which is completely valid C code: printf("%d\n", ((int(*(*(*)(void(*)(void)))[4])(void))ptr)((void(*)(void))0)[0][0]()); 23:19:29 that's what I would write in asm 23:19:49 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-36-82-251-3-33.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 23:19:59 drake1: don't confuse C macro's with lisp macro's. They're not comparable in any way. In fact, in most cases where you'd use a C macro, you wouldn't use a macro in lisp, and vice versa 23:20:52 ok, interesting. nothing like an executed parent process 23:21:18 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:21:41 -!- sonnym [~evissecer@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:27:53 it's over? 23:28:29 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p5DD1DFAB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:29:01 I mean when the result is a regular file, with no further changes 23:29:23 wat? 23:29:58 you know when a particular translation phase is over 23:30:14 drake1: I have no idea what you are talking about. 23:30:41 about macros working within the program 23:30:43 are we talking macros or are we talking files? translation phase? what? 23:31:01 <_3b> drake1: you realize not everything works the same way as every other thing, right? 23:31:05 drake1: they don't work. they're expanded into code. 23:31:14 _3b: exactly 23:31:25 -!- gonzojive [~red@171.66.75.252] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 23:31:40 <_3b> also, don't confuse semantics with implementation details 23:32:05 sounds like general semantics 23:32:12 <_3b> you could probably build a lisp compiler as a bunch of independent processes running in sequence (no idea why you would wnat to though) 23:32:50 <_3b> and you could implement C macros without a preprocessor if you wanted to 23:33:20 for the known sequence points and parallel execution 23:34:25 just start a few threads in your lisp and run shit in parallel then ? 23:34:51 *schmrkc* isn't familiar with Ä"known sequence points" 23:34:56 hmmm nice irssi 23:34:57 it was an answer for _3b 23:35:00 oh 23:35:07 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-103-230.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:35:37 drake1: it makes little sense anyway I reckon. But go ahead and do it, mebbe it is great :) 23:36:02 compile the emacs? 23:36:43 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:37:28 what? 23:37:45 my emacs already is compiled 23:38:14 macros like that had my concept loosened is all 23:38:48 macros get expanded to code. and sbcl and ccl both like to compile this code into native machine code 23:39:03 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 23:39:08 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.33.72] has joined #lisp 23:39:53 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.115.109.186] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:40:18 Most lisp compilers compile to native code. 23:40:24 -!- ephcon_ [~ephcon@64.254.165.107] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:40:43 I only use clisp, ccl and sbcl. so 2 out of 3 sure qualifies as most :) 23:40:43 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@64.254.165.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:41:13 Heh. Not so long ago, I was looking at a trace file from SBCL and saw a component in it that I didn't expect, which turned out to be a macrolet expander. I then had to double-check to make sure it hadn't ended up in the FASL. 23:41:23 Im not much for the binary version. at least not with dynamic evaluation in the code 23:41:54 Clisp is the only common lisp implementation I know of that doesn't compile to machine code. 23:42:26 interesting rtoym 23:42:26 drake1: Why? 23:42:48 schmrkc, cause I don't see how that should gain in speed 23:43:13 good enough 23:43:28 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7540df.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:43:53 <_3b> rtoym: well, arguably ecl compiles to C, and leaves the machine code generation to something else 23:43:59 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:44:22 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 23:44:23 <_3b> abcl depends on whether you count VM machine code or not 23:44:50 rtoym: Can we make a case for the LispM implementations not being machine code? 23:45:16 (Since LispM macrocode is interpreted by a LispM microcode program.) 23:45:27 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:47:34 For most people, microcode might as well be the hardware. So I'd say it's machine code, I guess. 23:48:35 atomx [~user@92.80.115.186] has joined #lisp 23:49:16 VMs are pretty cool for easy distribution, but I don't want the program to carry its own compiler 23:49:53 _3b: Yeah, but you don't "run" the C code. You run the native code. 23:50:05 Hum. I frequently use "closure compilers" in my programs. 23:50:11 unless it's ``make'' or something plain and simple 23:50:29 I take a inefficient-sounding high-level DSL and then compile it to something super efficient. 23:51:11 My view of compilers have changed pretty radically since I started using Common Lisp. 23:51:49 Other languages make it sound like the parsing stage is a huge deal. It just doesn't have to be. 23:52:13 especially not for interactive minded languages 23:52:50 Hexstream: If you think Common Lisp has an unusual idea of compilation, take a look at FORTH! 23:53:13 nyef: Hehe. Forth is on my shortlist of next languages I should check out at some point. 23:53:30 Along with Haskell, Erlang, Prolog... 23:53:58 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@p5B28362B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 23:53:59 It's likely I'll end up stealing some of their ideas and incorporating it in my CL DSL's. 23:54:13 One idea I stole a lot is pattern-matching ;P 23:54:38 -!- Joreji [~thomas@93-004.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:54:41 The next big one I want to steal is dataflow. 23:54:42 Joreji [~thomas@93-004.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 23:54:59 Fully declarative languages FTW. 23:55:10 I've written a text about my own pattern library http://www.gangsterfreak.com/doc#doc/synsem 23:56:13 only the * wildcard is supported 23:56:22 nyef: Yeah, microcoded machines are kind of a gray area, but I think that would be machine code. Aren't a lot of x86 instructions microcoded these days? 23:56:58 Hmm. S-expressions really have taken over my brain. Now, each time I see a syntax that's not s-expressions-based, my brain rings an alarm. I'm going crazy ;P 23:57:19 I wouldn't know. Could we distinguish between machines with user-writable microcode and machines with microcode that you really can't mess with? 23:57:27 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483D209.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:59:11 sonnym [~evissecer@rrcs-184-74-137-167.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:59:29 In this Virtualized World(tm), it's getting a bit less relevant what is "hardware" and what is not. [original research?] You could design for hardware and then have it virtualized or (though unlikely), design for a VM that would actually be implemented as hardware.