00:04:04 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:04:13 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@p5B286AEA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 00:05:39 hadronzoo [~user@ppp-70-251-74-187.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 00:09:07 -!- Elench` [~user@dsl-217-155-101-20.zen.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:11:18 upward [~upward@modemcable004.209-80-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 00:11:20 -!- dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:12:43 -!- sepp2k [~sexy@p4FDF3B70.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: sepp2k] 00:13:08 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-134-127.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 00:21:20 -!- bandu [~coyotama@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:24:53 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-188-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 00:25:18 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-188-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:28:44 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.2.85] has joined #lisp 00:29:44 bgs100 [~ian@h23.214.89.75.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 00:29:44 -!- bgs100 [~ian@h23.214.89.75.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:29:44 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 00:30:23 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75539c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:30:54 -!- hadronzoo [~user@ppp-70-251-74-187.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:31:22 hadronzoo [~user@ppp-70-251-74-187.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 00:31:56 -!- darkmag [~vfalico@ip-94-112-36-51.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:32:19 darkmag [~vfalico@ip-94-112-36-51.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 00:33:25 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:35:15 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p54839F10.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:38:56 -!- loomer [~loomer@unaffiliated/loomer] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:39:02 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.33.72] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 00:39:47 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:40:18 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:41:28 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:43:39 TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@203-206-26-27.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 00:45:11 -!- astalla [~astalla@93-36-226-66.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 00:47:25 -!- logia_th [~nmo@83.38.207.217] has quit [Quit: return 0;] 01:00:43 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:03:13 -!- cody [~crfrazer@75-132-198-214.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:03:45 i have a file, it loads functions from another file using (load), and then it uses a bunch of functions from that file, by simpling calling them without giving the to print as arguments. but, i want the results of those functions to echo to the user, but i don't want to use prints. i know you can do this using :print T if i load by file from sbcl, but i am loading my file with sbcl --load from bash. 01:04:01 so does anybody know how i can do the :print T when i load a file from bash 01:04:07 is my question in short 01:04:09 :) 01:05:34 i could just load a lisp script that loads the script i want with the :print T 01:06:18 you could. 01:06:43 that did work :) 01:06:51 glad to help! 01:06:54 ^^ 01:10:41 piquito [piquito@196.188.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 01:12:10 zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has joined #lisp 01:12:35 I don't think i understand the concept of functional programing, if it's about defining mathematical relations betwin in and outputs rather then guiving a bunch of preset orders to the computer, why aren't all the languages suited for it? 01:13:38 Eno_: sbcl --eval '(load #P"/path/to/source.lisp" :print T)' 01:14:30 oooh.. good to know. ty 01:14:31 piquito: Functional style is much more than that (you need easy handling of passing around functions etc.) and not all languages make it easy 01:14:57 piquito: though for functional programming, go check Haskell 01:15:18 you'll see what a language designed from grounds up for FP looks like :) 01:17:26 -!- navigator [~navigator@p548973DE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:17:44 minion: gentle? 01:17:45 gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 01:18:32 i adventured myself a bit on common lisp but never really put it to practical use... more recently i've touched a bit of javascript in a more functional way... but cannot think of much differences comparing with other languages besides the ability of passing function objects around... is that what it's all about? passing around functions? (no sarcasm intended) 01:18:57 data = function 01:19:07 piquito: read gentle introduction's chapters on evaluation and different styles, it mentions both recursive and applicative styles, which (especially the latter) is hard in a language without support for functions as first-order objects 01:20:06 piquito: Lisp and JS only have certain basic, elementary features for FP (though there are macro packages to add more) - look at possibilities enabled by currying and composition of functions in Haskell 01:20:46 (there is this for JS also : http://common-lisp.net/project/parenscript/) 01:21:38 can we leave haskell for some other day? i would like to understand a bit of stuff today, and if we point the discussion to a field in which i have zero knowledge then i don't get much from it 01:21:40 I suspect the association of FP with Lisp comes back from LISP 1.0 01:22:09 data = function =) 01:22:38 that's really all. the rest is convenience feature to express this in different ways 01:22:48 and the times where you had either assembly, static and unflexible number crunching FORTRAN, and LISP which covered nearly everything 01:23:06 minion: I red half of "practical" common Lisp and without wanting to sound pretentious, didn't learn much i can find usefull or even interesting... is A gentle introducition to symbolic computation much different? 01:23:06 i'm written in common lisp 01:23:36 minion, lol... yeah... those kind of statements are too freequent though 01:23:37 you speak nonsense 01:23:48 i might 01:23:53 piquito: it wont make sense by reading about it, as much as what would happen at the "ah-ha!" moments by working with it. 01:24:03 piquito: gentle introduction is more in spirit of an academic textbook introducing people too different (especially back then) style of writing programs 01:25:17 personally, I learnt CL with PCL and found it good enough, though it took time (I recall approaching CL few times, each time rebounding from CLOS. Then I read about typeclasses in Haskell and CLOS made sense) 01:25:36 ok... so could some one show me a simple example that sets appart a functional programing language from a non fp language? 01:26:19 adhoc [~adhoc@ubermonkey.net] has joined #lisp 01:26:41 i mean, something that is cleary easy to achieve with a functional approach 01:26:44 morning all 01:27:11 anyon using weblocks? 01:27:28 i'm trying to build it from clbuild 01:27:51 but having issues with a 'package' that fails on the debug symbols ... 01:28:42 the symbol that seems to be missing is; debug-source-namestring 01:28:49 piquito: it wont make sense by reading about it, as much as what would happen at the "ah-ha!" moments by working with it. 01:31:01 all the dependencies seem to be met, all pulled down from them respective 01:31:06 rcs's 01:32:03 haven't found much on it other than its apparently ben fixed up stream, from a debian bug tracking page .. 01:32:09 thoughts? 01:34:29 piquito: to be able to do functionnal programming, you need a garbage collector. Otherwise you get memory leaks when you return dynamically allocated values. 01:35:17 piquito: so you'd need to add a GC to most language to be able to use them in a functional style. 01:35:22 pjb: you need some form of automated memory management, for sure. 01:35:36 there's stuff like regions and other stuff. 01:35:47 GC is the default route 01:35:56 Yes, I'm simplifying. 01:36:18 fair enough :P 01:37:20 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:37:39 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 01:38:06 -!- Krystof [~csr21@92.24.99.161] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:38:32 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:40:12 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:40:59 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@89.135.204.63] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:45:51 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:47:37 xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-227-89.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:52:56 Krystof [~csr21@78.146.227.182] has joined #lisp 01:54:16 -!- sytse [~sytse@2001:888:1817:0:226:18ff:fe65:ac7b] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:57:07 sytse [~sytse@2001:888:1817:0:226:18ff:fe65:ac7b] has joined #lisp 01:57:20 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-227-89.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:00:05 *p_l|home* finishes packing and prepares to ride to airport (Warsaw -> Glasgow -> Aberdeen) 02:00:14 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 02:01:45 see you on the other side. 02:02:13 adhoc: paste the error message and backtrace? 02:02:23 -!- davazp [~user@184.Red-79-154-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:02:43 Xach: i found some references to a version issue, eith the symbol name changes 02:02:58 so have recompiled sbcl and installed it in /usr/local and trying again 02:03:23 old debian versio 1.0.18 vs current 02:03:28 s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-235-117.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 02:03:31 1.0.18 is pretty old 02:04:06 1.0.18... eh, good times 02:04:07 Xach: yeah 02:04:14 *p_l|home* thinks he still runs 1.0.18 somewhere 02:04:41 (the only version that runs on that machine) 02:05:05 -!- _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:05:05 *adhoc* does web work at work 02:05:35 but i'd like to do some web stuff on CL and compare some of my old perl stuff 02:06:01 perl... back when webdevs were men and not PHP kids? :D 02:07:01 Xach: you have any recommendations of web tools/frameworks? 02:07:18 p_l|home: yes, its been a long time 02:08:01 afk 02:08:09 adhoc: not really. i do things pretty manually. there were some interesting slides by marijn about defining web services in CL though. 02:08:11 -!- p_l|home [~pl@213.5.11.129] has quit [Quit: shutdown -h now] 02:08:16 see recent planet.lisp.org under "defservice" 02:08:23 ok ta 02:10:11 -!- piquito [piquito@196.188.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [] 02:20:41 sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.162.242] has joined #lisp 02:25:11 ephcon [~ephcon@64.254.165.90] has joined #lisp 02:30:19 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:30:41 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:41:56 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@64.254.165.90] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:45:56 ephcon [~ephcon@student164-178.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 02:45:56 -!- ost`` [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:46:08 ost`` [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 02:55:33 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@student164-178.hampshire.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:56:43 ephcon [~ephcon@student164-178.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 02:59:49 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-188-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 03:09:31 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@student164-178.hampshire.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:13:14 -!- hadronzoo [~user@ppp-70-251-74-187.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:26:10 Good morning everyone! 03:26:27 hello, beach 03:30:48 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 03:31:11 ephcon [~ephcon@student164-178.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 03:31:36 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@student164-178.hampshire.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 03:41:29 -!- az [~az@p5796CE47.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:44:45 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:48:18 az [~az@p5796C7E7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:57:48 setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:11:35 -!- Eno_ [~eno@fl-71-55-189-188.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:17:27 bandu [~coyotama@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 04:19:41 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 04:22:53 -!- bandu [~coyotama@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:30:13 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.1.39.125] has joined #lisp 04:35:15 -!- salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Quit: salva] 04:36:34 -!- timack [~tim@hlfx60-1-26.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:38:18 *beach* thinks piquito left convinced that functional programming, and therefore any language other than those he already knows, are useless. He can thus feel good about not having to learn anything new. 04:38:41 [reading scrollbacks] 04:40:56 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:42:19 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.1.39.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:44:16 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:55:58 -!- Krystof [~csr21@78.146.227.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:56:22 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:08:24 Krystof [~csr21@92.24.90.8] has joined #lisp 05:08:38 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 05:12:42 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 05:15:59 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:16:44 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:25:19 Xach: defservice.aserve is (currently) Allegro-specific code." 05:26:06 so, not an easy starting point to get ones head around CL (using sbcl) 05:32:03 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 05:34:57 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:35:52 -!- rme [rme@clozure-C57A251E.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 05:35:52 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-106-142-111.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 05:37:26 setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:38:41 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.162.242] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:42:36 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:42:38 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 05:42:41 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has left #lisp 05:55:38 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 05:55:45 phadthai 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joined #lisp 06:29:06 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 06:29:08 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 06:29:08 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:33:04 Is there a smarter way to do: (if (onething) onething anotherone)? assuming onething is nil sometimes 06:33:25 cond ? 06:33:36 <_3b> (or onething anotherthing) ? 06:33:38 or progn or ? 06:33:42 ah~ 06:34:38 Or will prolly be the most logical way. ;-D 06:46:29 -!- rrice [~rrice@adsl-76-253-135-9.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:46:33 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-17-234.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 06:48:42 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-85-185.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:02:57 wbooze` [~user@xdsl-84-44-251-188.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 07:03:01 homie` [~user@xdsl-84-44-251-188.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 07:04:13 -!- G0SUB [~ghoseb@121.243.225.226] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 07:04:24 G0SUB 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quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:52:47 echo-area [~echo-area@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 10:54:24 francogrex [~user@109.130.62.226] has joined #lisp 10:54:45 Hi, how to download the latest sbcl from git? (command + address) 10:55:26 salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 10:56:36 google sbcl git 10:56:57 Find url. git clone $URL 10:57:04 http://git.boinkor.net/gitweb/sbcl.git has the clone url 10:57:12 -!- lnostdal [~quassel@167.80-203-136.nextgentel.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:57:13 -!- aerique [~euqirea@aerique.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 10:57:58 lnostdal [~quassel@167.80-203-136.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 10:58:26 so will it download the latest: 3 days ago Nikodemus Siivola 1.0.42.52: fix Windows build master 11:01:43 having this error: fatal: destination path 'sbcl' already exists and is not an empty directory. 11:02:03 though I renamed the older sbcl folder... still 11:03:36 loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 11:06:14 Joreji [~thomas@80-070.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:06:38 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:07:43 frito [~user@cpc2-sotn4-0-0-cust13.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 11:07:52 try harder. 11:09:35 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-188-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:12:39 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 11:12:45 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 11:14:53 harder is I downloaded the newest snapshot 11:15:18 -!- Joreji [~thomas@80-070.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:15:49 -!- loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:16:32 loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 11:17:03 sb-simple-steams still fails :( 11:18:43 Joreji [~thomas@80-070.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:19:23 -!- lat_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:20:53 dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:21:56 -!- loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:26:31 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:26:56 loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 11:31:57 How does back-matching work in cl-ppcre? "(?<=something)" isn't working. :/ 11:32:47 Or hmm, it isn't really doing what it 11:32:53 I thought it will* 11:34:02 Oh, it is working. nvm 11:35:41 Yuuhi [benni@p5483A324.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:35:50 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:39:37 Joreji_ [~thomas@80-070.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:42:34 -!- Joreji [~thomas@80-070.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:44:20 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@80-070.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:45:28 Okay, tis confusing me: (scan-to-strings "^(?<=.)." "qregn 123") 11:45:38 => NIL 11:46:31 It shoulda returned "r". :/ 11:48:59 -!- loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:49:04 -!- fmu_ [89@unaffiliated/fmu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:52:54 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-81-254.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:54:29 -!- wbooze` [~user@xdsl-84-44-251-188.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:54:37 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-84-44-251-188.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:55:49 I'll stick with what I have... until SB-SIMPLE-STREAMS is fixed. 11:56:08 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-72-227.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:57:16 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@89.135.204.63] has joined #lisp 11:58:26 there was a set of libs that could add unicode support to older lisp implementations that lacked it... can't find it back on cliki 11:59:08 CL-UNICODE perhaps, not sure 11:59:13 Edward_ [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-21-141.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:04:23 homie [~user@xdsl-84-44-251-188.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:04:27 wbooze [~user@xdsl-84-44-251-188.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:05:20 dlowe [~dlowe@c-98-216-106-0.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:07:14 -!- Edward_ [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-21-141.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:08:47 Edward_ [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-1-153.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:10:02 ska` [~user@ppp-115-87-220-186.revip4.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 12:11:05 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-188-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 12:11:05 -!- G0SUB [~ghoseb@121.243.225.226] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:11:39 G0SUB [~ghoseb@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 12:12:00 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-188-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:14:20 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p5DD1DC96.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 12:19:09 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.62.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:20:50 -!- drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:25:19 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 12:28:10 loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 12:30:51 Is there actually a differnce between using '(stuff) and (list stuff) in code, I had a subtle bug that was corrected by switching the '() to (list) 12:31:11 <_3b> you aren't allowed to modify '(stuff) 12:31:42 Borbus: and using (list stuff) evaluates stuff, and puts that result into list--using '(stuff) does not evaluate stuff, but just puts the symbol stuff (or whatever stuff is) into the list 12:32:02 <_3b> that too :) 12:32:06 What about using backtick instead? 12:32:29 `(,stuff) 12:32:59 Borbus: that would do the same as (list stuff), because a comma in a backtick expression means evaluate the first term after the comma 12:34:55 I have some code where `(,nil) and (list nil) behave quite differently, `(,nil) seems to be not ending the list properly or something, or not changing the last cdr 12:35:05 deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 12:35:10 -!- deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:35:40 deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 12:37:00 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:37:12 Borbus: they should be exactly the same: they all construct a fresh one-element list whose car is nil 12:38:15 xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@58.41.2.85] has joined #lisp 12:38:20 In fact the stuff it is linking to is stuff I would have expected to be garbage collected... does SLIME/Swank alter the way GC works ie. not GCing anything that is returned? 12:39:15 SLIME can keep an object around longer than you think with its presentations 12:39:31 it holds on to a reference to the object that you can use later 12:39:34 Yeah I think that is what is happening here 12:39:39 I am not sure how to clear the presentation cache 12:39:56 Well.. I still get a difference between (list stuff) and `(list ,stuff) I can't explain 12:39:57 ah. 12:40:03 M-x slime-clear-presentations RET 12:40:20 um, `(list ,stuff) constructs a two-element list whose car is LIST (: 12:40:23 (the symbol LIST) 12:41:15 fmu_ [89@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zhxdncvwzofvlucs] has joined #lisp 12:41:26 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.2.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:41:34 Oops I meant `(,stuff) 12:42:39 antifuchs: fresh? 12:42:46 -!- loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:42:53 hm, let me check that 12:43:23 loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 12:44:19 oh, "An implementation is free to interpret a backquoted form F1 as any form F2 that, when evaluated, will produce a result that is the same under equal as the result implied by the above definition, provided that the side-effect behavior of the substitute form F2 is also consistent with the description given above. The constructed copy of the template might or might not share list structure with the template itself" 12:45:12 well. then it might not be fresh if the implementation can prove that the results are always EQUAL 12:45:17 which would be the case for `(,nil) 12:45:31 so maybe it's not a fresh list 12:46:28 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-188-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 12:46:29 Aha.. maybe that's why.. I'm using sbcl 1.0.18 if anyone is interested 12:46:37 Joreji [~thomas@80-070.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:46:51 Borbus: i think it'll be the same anywhere. don't modify the result of a backquoted form. 12:48:56 Elench` [~user@dsl-217-155-101-20.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:50:40 Is there a rule of thumb of when to use quoted/backquoted forms in code? I've used them as arguments to functions before just because it looks a bit nicer 12:50:54 I mean as a method of making lists of course 12:51:13 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 12:51:29 Borbus: if you want to make something you can freely modify, don't use backquote. otherwise use what you think looks nicer. 12:51:53 new123456 [~adamnew12@cpe-075-182-049-141.sc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:51:54 -!- new123456 [~adamnew12@cpe-075-182-049-141.sc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 12:51:58 I think I've seen quite a bit of code that uses backquotes to pass the first arg of make-array 12:52:10 (make-array `(,width ,height) ...) 12:55:54 -!- Elench` is now known as Elench 12:55:59 -!- Elench [~user@dsl-217-155-101-20.zen.co.uk] has quit [Changing host] 12:55:59 Elench [~user@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 12:58:07 -!- Joreji [~thomas@80-070.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:59:25 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 13:01:48 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:05:01 Joreji [~thomas@80-070.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:10:03 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:10:47 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #lisp 13:12:14 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:17:31 carlvoncosel [~michaelk@ip4daa0286.direct-adsl.nl] has joined #lisp 13:18:51 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 13:20:00 Good afternoon everyone! 13:23:28 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 13:24:40 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-141-226.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:25:58 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:30:04 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.113.22.10.plusnet.pte-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:09 hi beach 13:33:12 -!- fmu_ [89@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zhxdncvwzofvlucs] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:33:16 hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 13:34:02 -!- Joreji [~thomas@80-070.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:37:06 So, as part of open-sourcing my shitty code, I'm killing dependencies so I decided to give up on iterate. Now I'm thinking of maybe taking it further and ban loop from my codebases entirely. My question: has anyone done this successfully for a big codebase, and is it worth it? Any tips for living without loop? I did some googling but didn't find anything. 13:37:40 francogrex [~user@109.130.62.226] has joined #lisp 13:37:43 loop doesn't introduce any dependency, other than on a full CL implementation. 13:38:25 I'm going nuts: while asdfing I get an error saying: The function GRAY::SHRINK-VECTOR is undefined 13:38:40 hexstream: killing dependencies! 13:38:40 hexstream: you should add *more* dependencies 13:38:53 I looked in all files there is no mention of even once of :SHRINK-VECTOR ! 13:38:59 beach: Yes, I know. However, while I can live with the concept of loop, I really hate its implementation. Like how it's not lispy, tends to indent poorly, interns clashy symbols, etc. 13:39:22 Is loop something the grows on you? I've been learning lisp for only a few weeks and I don't like it at all 13:39:46 hexstream: if you worry about interning symbols, use (loop #:for i #:in ...) 13:39:50 Borbus: Personally, I've oscillated between loving it and hating it many times. 13:39:55 Borbus: Sorry to hear that. 13:40:21 hexstream: And it indents pretty well with the slime contribution slime-indentation. 13:40:49 fmu_ [89@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vwlvgdpofseppcgx] has joined #lisp 13:40:53 I just think using DO is clearer.. but maybe I just haven't come across a problem that is more clearly expressed with LOOP 13:40:55 brandonz [~brandon@42.sub-97-34-157.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 13:41:07 Do is definitely not clearer. 13:41:16 beach: Guess I'll have to try that. 13:41:23 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 13:41:26 Xach: Are you playing mind-tricks with me or something?... Adding more dependencies?... 13:42:20 When I was working on my stuff completely alone I didn't mind that much about dependencies, but now I don't want to impose many or big dependencies on eventual hypothetical users of my libraries recklessly and needlessly. 13:43:06 hexstream: if your library is useful, nobody will care. dependencies are going to get really easy to install soon. 13:43:31 if they help you write the code faster and not hate how it looks afterwards, go for it! 13:43:35 MORE DEPENDENCIES! 13:44:29 Xach: I see. So I take it you're working on some definitive dependency management thingy or something else is... 13:44:44 *Xach* will use any old flimsy excuse to mention quicklisp 13:44:45 hexstream: He is. 13:45:15 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:45:19 Xach: I'll note that most of my libraries are small and not very useful, so having less dependencies might count for something ;P 13:45:38 hee hee 13:46:13 Xach: So you're working on some sort of CPAN? Not that I know anything about perl... 13:47:02 vaguely. cpan does a lot of things that aren't on my radar. 13:47:10 Is this documented somewhere and how far along are you in the development?... Any guess on a release date? 13:47:12 I'm defining a method with defmethod. I changed the argument count, and now I can't recompile it. That's because sbcl doesn't want conflicts in future? 13:47:32 ij: don't define a generic function with defmethod. use defgeneric. 13:47:37 (fmakunbound 'troublesome-method) 13:47:42 then add methods with defmethod, or use defgeneric's :method option. 13:47:44 Then reload. 13:48:56 probably from here (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :load-toplevel :execute) (gray::redefine-cl-functions)) 13:49:20 Xach, So I need to (defgeneric for every method? :/ 13:49:22 somehow the function si:shrink-vector is nor being redefined 13:49:30 ij: NO 13:50:01 ben_ [~ben@f054013074.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:50:18 beach, Just for ones that might have more versions, right? 13:50:27 ij: no, you need a defgeneric for every generic. 13:50:50 ij: First define the generic function using defgeneric, then define methods on it using defmethod. 13:51:02 -!- brandonz [~brandon@42.sub-97-34-157.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:51:03 ij: The defgeneric will also serve as your protocol documentation. 13:54:10 hexstream: i have something that can bootstrap from a single file and load any of about 300 Lisp projects pretty easily. there are still issues with managing what you've installed. 13:54:24 -!- fmu_ [89@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vwlvgdpofseppcgx] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:55:00 i already find it pretty indispensable. 13:55:36 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.17.188.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 13:56:43 Xach: Cool. Until now I've had a "tp" (for third-party) directory into which I dump all third-party libraries and I update them "as needed", when something breaks because I update another library. I have lots of ancient versions in there. Can't wait to use a sane method. 13:57:12 hexstream: if you'd like to try a demo, hop in #quicklisp 13:57:17 it won't break your tp 13:59:28 Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:02:57 -!- lusory [~bart@bb121-6-7-119.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:02:58 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.113.22.10.plusnet.pte-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:04:26 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo3.23.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:05:41 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 14:06:49 -!- loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:07:22 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-37-82-253-46-200.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:08:02 -!- tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:08:08 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:08:28 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:08:41 lusory [~bart@bb219-74-111-104.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 14:13:16 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@84.93.184.107] has joined #lisp 14:14:30 -!- emma is now known as mc44 14:15:08 -!- mc44 is now known as emma 14:16:28 LiamH [~nobody@pool-141-156-214-211.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:16:30 -!- hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 14:16:47 -!- Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Quit: Quit: Quit: Qui*** Exception: Stack overflow.] 14:17:38 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 14:19:29 how to list all functions specific for the package (for example I want list all functions in package :gray but without the other cl-imported ones) 14:20:20 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-188-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:22:35 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-23-82-248-70-94.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:22:41 clhs find-symbol 14:22:41 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_find_s.htm 14:25:29 clhs symbol-package 14:25:29 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_symb_3.htm 14:26:08 new-lisper [~daniel@c95339ea.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 14:26:31 -!- new-lisper is now known as valium97582 14:27:13 francogrex: Those were for you. 14:28:35 ok thnks. I need to learn export functions as well from one package to another 14:28:38 Iwill read 14:29:07 francogrex: Packages do not contain functions, only symbols. You export symbols. 14:29:46 francogrex: (defpackage #:my-packge (:use ...) (:export #:symbol-1 #:symbol-2 ...)) 14:30:06 pixpop [~user@adsl-76-208-150-148.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:56 francogrex: This is why you don't want to have the same name on a slot as on the accessor or reader for that slot, because when you export the name of the accessor or reader, you also export the name of the slot. 14:31:23 hello everybody 14:31:29 hello valium97582 14:32:00 hmm, i've not been here for _ages_ 14:32:08 i mean, two weeks :) 14:32:51 valium97582 a.k.a. new-lisper 14:34:26 -!- valium97582 is now known as new-lisper 14:36:38 -!- new-lisper is now known as valium97582 14:37:14 naming: n-rows/n-row? 14:38:46 for what? 14:40:03 an integer denoting the number of rows 14:40:22 row-count is too long 14:40:25 n-rows 14:40:28 num-rows 14:40:34 I suggest number-of-rows. 14:40:48 mega1: too long for what? 14:40:57 for whom :-) 14:41:31 beach: ok noted 14:42:00 mega1: What is the problem with long names? 14:42:43 it's the shrink-vector I need to export it from the :si package to the :gray package. i'll need to do some basic reading first anyway 14:43:37 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 14:43:43 Soulman1 [~knute@159.80-202-237.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 14:43:58 brandonz [~brandon@177.sub-97-58-73.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 14:49:01 francogrex: If shrink-vector is exported from the si package, then all you need to do in the gray package is si:shrink-vector 14:49:03 -!- xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@58.41.2.85] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:54:30 -!- pixpop [~user@adsl-76-208-150-148.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:56:03 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@89.135.204.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:01:29 patapra [~patapra@74.196.224.26] has joined #lisp 15:03:58 hi, im new to lisp (using CMUCL) - in all the examples ive seen for building lists, i havent seen anything for building a sequence of numbers.. like build a list from x to y.. is there a builtin function for this? 15:04:19 loop ? 15:04:20 <_3b> (loop for i from x to y collect i) 15:06:41 <_3b> or alexandria:iota if you don't mind an extra dependency (or already use alexandria anyway) 15:06:47 ah. i see. thanks 15:07:30 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-188-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 15:09:41 jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 15:10:10 rme [~rme@pool-70-106-142-111.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:15:04 ok 15:15:37 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.62.226] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:15:42 -!- patapra [~patapra@74.196.224.26] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:18:47 fmu_ [89@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hgxxqvhvlburqwho] has joined #lisp 15:24:32 -!- upward is now known as upwardindex 15:24:43 -!- schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:24:49 schmrkc [~marcus@c83-254-197-212.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 15:24:49 -!- schmrkc [~marcus@c83-254-197-212.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Changing host] 15:24:49 schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 15:27:22 how do i build (loop for i from x to y collect i) using do 15:27:57 clhs do 15:27:58 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_do_do.htm 15:28:04 figure it from there 15:29:50 -!- drakko [~andy@pool-96-224-129-92.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:30:08 -!- carlvoncosel [~michaelk@ip4daa0286.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:30:59 drakko [~andy@pool-96-224-52-122.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:31:41 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@89.135.204.63] has joined #lisp 15:32:39 i got it 15:32:54 so, how does it look? 15:35:42 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@89.135.204.63] has quit [Client Quit] 15:36:05 timor [~timor@port-92-195-17-53.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 15:36:08 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-17-53.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Client Quit] 15:36:51 i am not sure, i think i will stick with loop :) 15:37:56 valium97582: and why did you ask a do-version? 15:38:09 (do* ((i y (1- i)) (list (list i) (cons i list))) ((= i x) list)) doesn't look better than loop 15:39:07 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 15:43:03 stassats: wanted to know how to do it 15:44:27 sepp2k [~sexy@p4FDF45FA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:44:44 ircmasterman [~ircmaster@p54A9734E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:04 mk2` [~user@evanspc2.rai.umds.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:45:22 http://bit.ly/c6bASW 15:46:22 -!- ircmasterman [~ircmaster@p54A9734E.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 15:48:12 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 15:48:18 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has left #lisp 15:52:07 -!- pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-61-51.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:53:22 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-84-44-251-188.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:53:37 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-84-44-251-188.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:55:37 I compiled Emacs and SBCL for TinyCore Linux (a 10Mb distribution that runs from a USB key). Now I can have my whole IDE in RAM. http://tinycorelinux.com/forum/index.php?topic=7336.0 15:58:33 pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-61-51.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:59:21 -!- G0SUB [~ghoseb@121.243.225.226] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:59:41 G0SUB [~ghoseb@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 15:59:45 woo 16:00:53 tama [~tama@64.134.158.133] has joined #lisp 16:02:29 i don't know, emacs and sbcl don't swap much on me 16:02:42 so they're always in RAM 16:03:57 -!- echo-area [~echo-area@114.251.86.0] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:04:10 stassats: Actually I just got hold of an old notebook without harddrive. 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timeout: 264 seconds] 18:36:01 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757b74.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:19 josemanuel [~josemanue@157.252.217.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 18:42:14 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-188-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:42:44 -!- ericklc [~ikki@189.247.134.103] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:43:11 gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.229.26] has joined #lisp 18:43:57 loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:40 -!- legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-17-234.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:47:29 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-22-105.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 18:47:47 -!- MaxMuen [maxmuen@kudu.in-berlin.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:47:53 MaxMuen [maxmuen@kudu.in-berlin.de] has joined #lisp 18:48:33 ericklc [~ikki@189.139.215.161] has joined #lisp 18:48:58 tcleval: yes, it is 18:50:07 -!- Elench` [~user@dsl-217-155-101-20.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:50:25 stassats: do you have any link to point me too? 18:53:35 -!- loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:53:51 tcleval: documentation, the sources 18:55:35 brandonz [~brandon@86.sub-97-57-249.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 18:55:54 loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 18:56:17 -!- loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:59:19 DeadPanda` [~Brett@host86-156-81-234.range86-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:59:29 pierrep [~ppasteau@bas11-montrealak-1177756560.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 18:59:57 p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:00:50 -!- brandonz [~brandon@86.sub-97-57-249.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:02:06 -!- ben_ [~ben@f054013074.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:02:26 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.183.191] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:03:49 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 19:03:52 Love4Boobies [kvirc@unaffiliated/pinchme] has joined #lisp 19:05:07 bbejh [~ejh@ip208-103-38-36.dyn.mintel.net] has joined #lisp 19:05:42 -!- bbejh [~ejh@ip208-103-38-36.dyn.mintel.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:06:04 varjag_ [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:06:41 skeptomai [~cb@63.231.32.97] has joined #lisp 19:08:46 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:11:36 loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 19:14:59 b-man_ [~b-man@187.112.88.181] has joined #lisp 19:17:04 nullkuhl [~nullkuhl@196.221.13.149] has joined #lisp 19:18:18 brandonz [~brandon@197.sub-97-252-141.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 19:18:52 how can i reverse a user input in clisp ? 19:19:09 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@157.252.217.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 19:19:29 nullkuhl: what is a user input? 19:19:35 (read) 19:21:12 (reverse (read)) and input a list? Not sure exactly what you want 19:21:23 silenius [~silenus@p549469F9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:22:00 Borbus: a user will enter a string "hello world." for example i would like to have as an output "world. hello" 19:22:10 sorry 19:22:18 is that a homework? 19:22:22 actually output would be ".dlrow olleh" 19:22:27 Oh right.. that's completely different.. it's quite easy and sounds like homework 19:22:28 not really, am not in school :) 19:22:31 its golfing 19:22:55 least characters , my friend is doing it in python and i thought it could be done in lisp in a shorter way 19:22:57 But you probably want to use (read-line) instead of (read) 19:22:58 gz` [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 19:23:08 -!- loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:23:34 lisp isn't particularly suited for "golfing" 19:24:16 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-201-208.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:25:01 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-201-208.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:25:01 Well, perl has a built in string split so you'll never win I think 19:25:18 Borbus: he is using python not perl :) 19:25:24 Python does too 19:25:32 hmm 19:25:42 ok how about 19:25:47 In python it's as easy as "hello world".split(' ') etc. 19:26:21 i thought it would be as easy as (reverse (read)) 19:26:25 in clisp 19:26:44 please, don't refer to common lisp as clisp 19:26:47 Wait are you reversing words or letter? 19:26:58 stassats: isnt it the same ? 19:27:01 And yeah.. clisp is an implementation of common lisp 19:27:06 nullkuhl: it isn't 19:27:07 nullkuhl: no. and be evil, abuse symbol-macrolet in .sbclrc or something 19:27:19 :P 19:27:27 okay 19:27:29 But yeah, code golf in lisp doesn't make much sense to me. 19:27:37 So you can have something like $(read-line) ? 19:27:46 redline6561: does it make sense anywhere? 19:27:50 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-188-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 19:27:54 beside sharpening the character 19:28:21 stassats: Not that I can think of. :) 19:28:37 well am interested to learn more about common lisp anyway, can any one suggest a good link for a source online or a book name ? 19:28:48 minion: please tell nullkuhl about pcl 19:28:49 nullkuhl: direct your attention towards pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 19:29:04 *Borbus* has read that 19:29:19 I have my copy in reach in fact 19:29:30 some people suggest shapiro's book, anyone heard of it ? 19:29:44 minion: gentle? 19:29:44 gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 19:30:19 I was thinking about getting Graham's book, is it worth getting when I already have PCL? 19:30:33 this: http://www.cse.buffalo.edu/~shapiro/Commonlisp/ 19:30:37 Borbus: On Lisp? wouldn't hurt 19:30:40 ANSI Common Lisp that is 19:30:49 It's quite expensive though (£40) 19:30:56 Borbus: if you have nothing else to read 19:31:47 If you have PCL, I'd recommend Norvig first. 19:31:54 I always have far too much to read 19:32:31 other books worth considering: PAIP, Keene's book, AMOP 19:33:02 Paradigms of AI? Even if I'm not particularly interested in AI? 19:33:03 cinch [~cinch@unaffiliated/cinch] has joined #lisp 19:33:05 fualo [~fualo@markov.genomecenter.ucdavis.edu] has joined #lisp 19:33:50 Borbus: yes. it'll teach you good CL. 19:34:04 The title is kind of misleading; the AI problems are just a vehicle for demonstrating good CL technique. 19:34:13 it's more about the tools that came about from classical AI problems 19:34:21 that are generally applicable 19:34:33 I've already done a bit of AI programming, but with Prolog 19:34:50 *nullkuhl* True 19:34:54 PAIP shows you how to write a prolog 19:35:03 So it would probably be good to see the LISP way too 19:35:17 no, Lisp way 19:35:21 Oh right, nice 19:35:42 i have heard this alot but im not sure if it is correct, can a lisp program change itself at runtime ? 19:35:51 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@187.112.88.181] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:35:59 only if you tell it so 19:36:03 Yes.. you can even compile new code at runtime 19:36:10 But I haven't done that yet 19:36:28 Borbus: I was just going to ask about that... I was looking at the SBCL source and I see it does indeed covert to native machine code at runtime 19:36:42 How does it shift execution to that native machine code block? 19:36:48 -!- Krystof [~csr21@78.146.225.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:36:50 Borbus: so for example the list code, could start forming a new code( naivly by printing some chars and concatinating them together), it would be able to compile that and run it ? 19:36:53 (this may be more of an architecture question) 19:37:25 homie` [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-128.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:37:27 wbooze` [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-128.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:37:30 jeyr [~jeyr@117.199.5.181] has joined #lisp 19:37:48 -!- skeptomai [~cb@63.231.32.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:37:49 fualo: by pointing a program counter to it? 19:38:11 stassats: how does it do that at runtime, in C? 19:38:22 nullkuhl: I don't know.. that's what macros do at compile time of course, I haven't got that far yet 19:38:24 (sorry if again, this is out of common lisp arena, but I did discover this through SBCL source) 19:38:54 fualo: does it do it in C? 19:39:03 well, the sbcl source is C and lisp 19:39:13 oh, I guess there is some ASM as well 19:39:16 what about assembly? 19:39:34 stassats: can a C code actually change itself at runtime ? 19:39:38 but isn't an asm() block precompiled? How would it at runtime specify the location 19:40:07 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-84-44-251-188.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:40:08 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-84-44-251-188.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:40:26 daniel_ [~daniel@p5B327EAB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:40:31 indirection? 19:41:33 nullkuhl: any program can change itself at runtime, depending on a number of factors, but usually you don't want to do that 19:42:11 though any lisp compiler does do that of course (compiling lisp code into machine code and running that counts as 'changing itself') 19:42:12 thanks stassats... 19:42:19 sytse: i do that all the time! 19:42:28 stassats: by running lisp code? :P 19:42:39 I need a toy runtime assembly interpreter, apparently 19:42:54 'assembly interpreter' :D 19:42:54 fualo: i have one inside my computer 19:42:55 lol 19:43:01 stassats: hey, mee to 19:43:03 *me too 19:43:07 stassats: coincidence! 19:43:31 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5B32699F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:44:17 I mean toy, emphasis on the toy 19:44:21 understanding by simplicity 19:44:26 fualo: C does provide functionality to interpret any number as a pointer to a function with a type specified at compiletime, and jump to it 19:44:36 objdump -d :P 19:45:01 srcerer_ [~chatzilla@63.196.107.132] has joined #lisp 19:45:08 -!- DeadPanda` [~Brett@host86-156-81-234.range86-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:45:15 fualo: you do need to set the correct mmap parameters though, you can't just jump into an malloc'ed block 19:45:17 -!- slyrus [~slyrus@adsl-75-36-215-204.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:45:34 well, i suspect that calling conventions in SBCL for Lisp and C are different 19:45:35 ... SBCL provides functionality to interpret any number as a pointer to a function object, provided that it actually points to a function object, and jump to it. 19:46:03 slyrus [~slyrus@adsl-75-36-215-204.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:08 -!- benny [~user@i577A1CD8.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:46:10 nyef: yes, yes, any real language does :P 19:46:26 (except for javascript) 19:46:30 how is this done in C? 19:46:43 -!- srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:46:53 A critical difference, however, is that SBCL actually checks to see if the number really does point to a function object, while C does not. 19:46:54 see how ECL does that 19:47:24 ECL uses byte code though, no? 19:47:32 that seems easier, as it runs its own bytecode interpreter 19:47:52 fualo: fptr = ((void)(*)()) ptr; 19:47:57 fualo: (*fptr)(); 19:48:09 fualo: just cast it to a function pointer, it's simple, really 19:48:19 um 19:48:35 and ptr is a pointer to what? 19:48:35 (void(*)()) is enough, don't need braces around the return type 19:48:48 fualo: ECL compiles Lisp code to C 19:48:57 fualo: to machine code that, hopefully, behaves 19:48:57 oh, my mistake 19:49:16 srcerer [~chatzilla@63.196.107.132] has joined #lisp 19:49:49 DeadPanda` [~Brett@host86-156-81-234.range86-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:50:08 Elench` [~user@dsl-217-155-101-20.zen.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:50:21 what are the steps between building a character array of machine code, and using that function pointer? or are these seperate thigns 19:50:24 benny [~user@i577A18D1.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:50:29 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:50:39 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 19:50:42 ysph [~user@fl-76-3-1-178.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:17 -!- srcerer_ [~chatzilla@63.196.107.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:52:50 fualo: to be really precise: { char *ptr = mmap(NULL, sysconf(_SC_PAGE_SIZE), PROT_WRITE | PROT_EXECUTE, MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0); fill_ptr_with_machine_code(ptr); ((void(*)()) ptr)(); } 19:53:23 (assuming your ptr fits within one page) 19:53:29 srcerer_ [~chatzilla@63.196.107.132] has joined #lisp 19:53:36 thanks sytse, I'll digest that now 19:54:02 -!- ska` [~user@ppp-115-87-220-186.revip4.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:54:16 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:54:44 and if you do this more often, presumably, you'll want to write your own memory allocator (or use an already written one very carefully) in such a way that you properly align functions, and that it mmaps with PROT_READ | PROT_WRITE | PROT_EXECUTE 19:55:00 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 19:55:08 say i have a class, and when i either read or write to certain slots, i want to interact with a separate data store, in other words, for that slot, i'm interested in storing the value in a different place, is the proper way to go about this to define a custom reader and writer or accessor, or should i be able to use a compiler generated accessor, and then use before/after methods to do what i want? 19:55:20 oh, and of course, on non-unix platforms you're going to have to use some other operating system-specific method to get executable pages 19:56:03 ysph: look up slot-value-using-class in the MOP 19:56:16 adeht: ok, thanks 19:56:26 -!- srcerer [~chatzilla@63.196.107.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:56:28 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:56:48 srcerer__ [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 19:58:19 -!- srcerer_ [~chatzilla@63.196.107.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:58:28 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.5-4.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:00:11 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:00:18 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 20:02:26 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-201-208.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:02:42 adeht: that's got me on the right track i believe, i had been wondering how the setf would turn out to be a generic function 20:03:12 cmm [~cmm@109.66.199.216] has joined #lisp 20:03:19 Krystof [~csr21@78.146.225.217] has joined #lisp 20:03:55 fualo: of course, in C, you can also cast to different function types 20:05:00 srcerer [~chatzilla@63.196.107.132] has joined #lisp 20:05:11 ysph: actually if you just want this one "slot" to be stored elsewhere (rather than a general solution for persistence) and commit to using functions to access its value, you could just as well define those functions 20:06:51 fualo: for example, if you want to cast an array to an array of pointers to functions accepting a pointer to a function returning void, and returning a function returning an array of ints, you need to use (int((*[])(void(*)(void))(void)[])) instead of (void(*)()) 20:06:55 -!- srcerer__ [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:06:56 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:07:28 fualo: not many people do that in real life I've found, but hey, you never know.. ;-) 20:07:39 aerique [~euqirea@aerique.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 20:08:27 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-154-222.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:08:27 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-154-222.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:08:27 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 20:08:58 you can declare the array using int((*fptrlst[])(void(*)(void))(void)[]); of course 20:09:05 -!- Elench` is now known as Elench 20:09:13 -!- Elench [~user@dsl-217-155-101-20.zen.co.uk] has quit [Changing host] 20:09:13 Elench [~user@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 20:09:17 srcerer_ [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 20:09:33 I suppose that you'd need to specify the dimensions of an array returned by a function though, dunno 20:11:29 srcerer__ [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 20:12:44 -!- srcerer [~chatzilla@63.196.107.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:12:48 -!- pixpop [~user@adsl-76-208-159-91.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:14:13 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-188-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:14:19 -!- srcerer_ [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:14:19 loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 20:14:32 srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 20:15:40 sytse: would malloc work instead of mmap? 20:16:16 -!- wbooze` [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-128.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:16:20 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-128.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:17:04 sepp2k [~sexy@p4FDF45FA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:23 me345 [~me345@adsl-75-15-177-27.dsl.bkfd14.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:31 -!- srcerer__ [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:20:01 fualo: nope, it wouldn't. 20:20:15 fualo: it doesn't give you executable pages 20:21:24 ah right, thanks sytse 20:27:08 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-128.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:28:52 fualo: sorry btw, I just put that cast I typed through a compiler and I made the mistake of returning an array which doesn't work; what does work is this: printf("%d\n", ((int(*(*(*)(void(*)(void)))[4])(void))ptr)((void(*)(void))0)[0][0]()); 20:29:15 -!- jeyr [~jeyr@117.199.5.181] has quit [Quit: jeyr] 20:29:30 fualo: it works perfectly well if you point ptr to the correct kind of function :P 20:29:43 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-128.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:33:26 is there a good CL ide, with fancy features like auto completion and code suggestions or so ? 20:33:33 yes. 20:33:34 emacs 20:33:47 :P 20:34:00 there's some commercial options too 20:34:11 -!- pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-61-51.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:34:20 There's also that CUSP thing. Dunno what state it's in, though. 20:36:35 kclifton [~kclifton@S0106001ff3c78795.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:26 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178-223-135-255.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:37:54 Guthur [~michael@cpc1-belf4-0-0-cust889.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:39:38 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 20:40:10 pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-71-151.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:40:11 -!- pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:41:07 Draggor [~Draggor@adsl-99-141-207-182.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:57 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 20:42:13 -!- G0SUB [~ghoseb@121.243.225.226] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:43:13 k2t01f12d [~k2t0f12d@121.98.185.20] has joined #lisp 20:43:29 -!- k2t01f12d [~k2t0f12d@121.98.185.20] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:44:11 G0SUB [~ghoseb@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 20:45:08 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:45:27 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@adsl-99-141-207-182.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:46:16 Draggor [~Draggor@adsl-99-148-28-145.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:46:27 timack [~tim@hlfx53-1-2.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 20:47:37 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 20:51:53 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-141-226.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:53:05 tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has joined #lisp 20:56:15 -!- DeadPanda` [~Brett@host86-156-81-234.range86-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:00:09 -!- Guthur [~michael@cpc1-belf4-0-0-cust889.2-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:00:50 -!- brandonz [~brandon@197.sub-97-252-141.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:03:04 -!- pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-71-151.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:03:53 -!- loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:04:07 -!- HET2 [~diman@91.106.69.71] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:04:15 tama [~tama@2002:6119:a773:6:21f:3aff:fe49:2d91] has joined #lisp 21:07:25 auto comple 21:08:49 pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-71-151.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:18:05 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-188-218.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 21:22:16 -!- kclifton [~kclifton@S0106001ff3c78795.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: kclifton] 21:27:04 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:27:15 -!- sdsds is now known as alpha_ 21:30:08 -!- Elench [~user@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:34:39 new-lisper [~daniel@c95339ea.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 21:37:20 sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:14 derrida [~derrida@unaffiliated/deleuze] has joined #lisp 21:38:57 -!- pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-71-151.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo_] 21:40:07 -!- sugarshark [~ole@p4FDA9A44.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:40:42 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181144155.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 21:41:30 -!- me345 [~me345@adsl-75-15-177-27.dsl.bkfd14.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:44:04 -!- aerique [~euqirea@aerique.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 21:44:59 guyal [~guyal@166.205.136.239] has joined #lisp 21:48:16 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:49:04 -!- alpha_ is now known as sdsds_food 21:49:05 -!- new-lisper [~daniel@c95339ea.virtua.com.br] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:49:25 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:54:33 -!- guyal [~guyal@166.205.136.239] has quit [Quit: guyal] 21:55:05 rvirding [~chatzilla@h19n4c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 21:59:00 pmatos [~user@host81-154-151-153.range81-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 22:01:39 Eno_ [~eno@fl-71-55-189-188.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 22:02:35 I try to do a (load "file.l") and i get this error http://pastebin.com/JUxreZuS - I can press 0 to load it. But, I need to redirect the output to a file, so I need to do it with sbcl --script, which fails. does anyone know how i can make sbcl not fail because of this errror (that i have to press "0" for in interactive mode):? 22:03:35 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.229.26] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:04:04 don't try to define a function called member 22:04:31 ok 22:05:35 drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 22:10:27 -!- drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:12:31 Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050067057.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 22:21:27 s1gma_ [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 22:22:18 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757b74.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:22:35 -!- _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:25:06 drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 22:27:52 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 22:28:25 dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:29:23 -!- tama [~tama@2002:6119:a773:6:21f:3aff:fe49:2d91] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:29:32 -!- frito [~user@cpc2-sotn4-0-0-cust13.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:31:19 Eno_: or if you insist on MEMBER, shadow it first. 22:31:44 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc5-bour5-2-0-cust340.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:32:23 tama [~tama@2002:6119:a773:6:21f:3aff:fe49:2d91] has joined #lisp 22:34:46 -!- varjag_ [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:40:33 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@84.93.184.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:44:13 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@p5B287F17.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 22:49:56 -!- tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:51:20 abezethibou [~isilhiz@217.131.89.168] has joined #lisp 22:51:35 -!- abezethibou [~isilhiz@217.131.89.168] has quit [Client Quit] 22:52:49 abezethibou [~user@217.131.89.168] has joined #lisp 22:54:12 -!- abezethibou [~user@217.131.89.168] has quit [Client Quit] 22:55:02 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@84.93.184.107] has joined #lisp 22:58:03 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:58:06 abezethibou [~chatzilla@217.131.89.168] has joined #lisp 23:00:10 -!- silenius [~silenus@p549469F9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:00:32 -!- drdo [~user@98.192.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:02:01 patapra [~patapra@67.143.233.37] has joined #lisp 23:02:10 abezethibou_ [~chatzilla@88.240.48.7] has joined #lisp 23:02:31 -!- abezethibou_ [~chatzilla@88.240.48.7] has quit [Client Quit] 23:02:46 -!- s1gma_ [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:04:10 -!- abezethibou [~chatzilla@217.131.89.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:04:21 -!- sepp2k [~sexy@p4FDF45FA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: sepp2k] 23:05:40 so im trying to loop through a list and increment i by two. each time through the loop i want to access i and i+1 23:06:01 it seems that i refers to the current element and not the index of the list? 23:06:34 if i print i and print (+ i 1) each iteration, it prints the element at i and then adds one to that element 23:06:55 -!- p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:07:30 as opposed to print the element at i and the element at i+1 23:07:46 patapra: check out this http://gigamonkeys.com/book/loop-for-black-belts.html 23:07:51 i suggest taking some time to read it 23:08:39 knowing the loop construct well will make you construct your code in awesome ways 23:08:45 p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 23:09:26 ok thanks. yeah, i just started using lisp today 23:10:51 -!- Love4Boobies [kvirc@unaffiliated/pinchme] has left #lisp 23:10:52 Well, using LOOP right away is rather a steep learning curve... 23:11:09 ah 23:11:25 then i would rather suggest trying to get by using recursively defined functions 23:11:30 you'll want to be well versed in them 23:11:50 That said, it's indeed easy to do with LOOP: (loop :for (a b) :on list :by (function cddr) :do (print (list a b))) 23:11:54 writing a recursive function that accesses two elements at a time is a good challenge 23:11:58 -!- adhoc [~adhoc@ubermonkey.net] has left #lisp 23:12:19 and there's a direct equivalence between the two forms. 23:12:57 yeah im not familiar with the colon notation but i follow what you said 23:13:53 The colon is syntax to specify the package where a symbol is searched. Normally: package:symbol, such as in: CL:LOOP, or CL-USER::MY-VARIABLE. 23:14:17 A single : is for when the symbol is exported from the package, and a double :: is for when the symbol is not exported. 23:14:30 When we omit the package name, as in :FOR, it's take as being the KEYWORD package. 23:15:04 Symbols in the KEYWORD package are special, they're called keywords, and they are all constants, having as value themselves. :FOR --> :FOR. 23:15:48 In any case, CL:LOOP doesn't care, it only watches the name of the symbol, ie. the string "FOR". You could as well write: (loop cl-user::for ...) or (loop for ...). 23:21:08 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:23:19 _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 23:23:25 -!- TomJ [~tomj@89.241.155.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:24:40 *nyef* just had this awful idea for a "homophonous loop package": (loop :four i :bellow 7 :deux ...) 23:25:23 <_3b> with soundex matching on variable names instead of symbol identity? 23:25:49 For the loupe keywords, yes. 23:26:07 As I said, an awful idea. 23:26:33 Possibly a matter of soundex matching -and- a dictionary lookup to make sure it's a "valid" word. 23:26:48 milanj [~milanj_@178-223-135-255.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 23:26:59 *_3b* wanted it for the variables too, so you could add a :some eye to that and have it add up 0..7 23:27:00 is it correct to define a parameter by '(1 2 3 4) ? i just want to have a constant that is a list of numbers. im getting an error that is saying x is not of type LIST when i do operations on the constant 23:27:44 TomJ [~tomj@89.241.155.73] has joined #lisp 23:27:45 _3b: Heh. Cute. 23:27:59 abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:28:10 patapra: (defparameter foo '(1 2 3 4)) is legit, yes. 23:28:12 davazp [~user@184.Red-79-154-140.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:28:39 That said, doing any destructive operation on the list is then not legit. 23:31:49 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:34:48 -!- darkmag [~vfalico@ip-94-112-36-51.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:36:04 -!- p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:36:13 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@f050067057.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:39:05 -!- ericklc is now known as ikki 23:40:21 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483A324.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:43:14 drwho [~drwho@c-68-63-83-105.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:43:46 -!- adeht [void@91.121.18.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:46:16 -!- sdsds_food is now known as sdsds 23:46:27 p_l|backup [~plasek@pp83.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 23:48:43 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:48:53 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@84.93.184.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:49:47 redline6561 [~redline@adsl-232-122-248.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 23:50:18 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-24-28-30-165.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: I'm big in Japan] 23:52:20 patapra: (defparameter foo ...) is the best way to spend half a day wondering why (f (lambda () foo)) doesn't work. 23:53:46 patapra: s/foo/x/ Perhaps that's exactly the reason why you've got that error.... 23:54:00 Yeah, yeah. Special variable and all that. 23:54:19 patapra is ubernewbie, so let's explain. 23:54:38 im looping thru by (loop for (a b) in list do (print i) 23:54:41 defvar and defparameter, in addition to defining a global variable, declares it special. 23:54:50 That is, it will have dynamic binding. 23:54:51 my param was of the form '(1 2 3 4) 23:55:05 i changed my param to '((1 2) (3 4)) and it worked 23:55:20 If you have a function that binds this variable, it won't bind a local variable, but the same global variable, for the dynamic scope, ie for the time during which the binding is in effect. 23:55:29 -!- tama [~tama@2002:6119:a773:6:21f:3aff:fe49:2d91] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:55:47 ... Something with LOOP FOR foo ON list? 23:56:06 There's a covnention in CL, to name special variables with stars, to avoid risking this problem. So you should always write (defparameter *foo* ...) with stars. and refer it as *foo* of course. 23:56:29 I wrote :on in my example. 23:57:09 yeah i used the stars 23:57:25 also, from what i can tell, defvar and defparameter are pretty similar 23:57:39 ? 23:57:42 Actually, they're different. 23:57:56 You would use defvar for program parameters, and defparameter for program variables. 23:58:28 defvar doesn't change the value of the variable if it is already bound. SO that's practical when you want to define a parameter, load the program, and have it use the parameter value instead of the default value. 23:58:31 parameters as in something i would pass to a function 23:58:57 defparameter changes the value of the variables everytime, so it's good when you want to define a global variable with a specific value 23:59:08 That would be parameters to the program. 23:59:16 Nothing to do with function parameters. 23:59:58 But sometime, you want to define a variable that is not reset when you reload the program (eg. where you will be accumulating results, or storing a databse). then you would use defvar.