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has joined #lisp 03:13:54 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:19:42 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:20:47 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-215-204.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:22:50 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:23:07 sea4ever [~sea@unaffiliated/sea4ever] has joined #lisp 03:23:23 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@rrcs-64-183-136-38.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:23:23 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@rrcs-64-183-136-38.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 03:23:23 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has joined #lisp 03:25:07 -!- tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:26:43 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 03:27:33 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.180.207] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:30:58 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:31:24 ikki [~ikki@189.139.180.207] has joined #lisp 03:42:34 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.180.207] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:52:42 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 03:52:53 Good morning everyone! 03:56:54 good morning 13:47:38 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 13:47:38 13:47:38 -!- names: ccl-logbot LiamH sdsds ASau Fare moah Edward lolsuper_ JimmyRcom dto1 jmcphers ace4016 bgs100 dfox manic12 tankrim nikodemus sixpoint8 stis Bronsa mornfall morphling atomx ThomasP1 kiuma Amadiro gravicappa Kae hargettp Xach _s1gma hohoho ignas dostoyevsky johanbev_ boyscared ``Erik stepnem tcr urandom__ ak70 zomgbie Deesl H4ns navigator wbooze homie Blkt legumbre_ talyz pdelgallego HET2 fiveop xan_ slash_ rdd araujo Davidbrcz Krystof serichsen abeaumont 13:47:38 -!- names: symbole slyrus insomniaSalt cmm kleppari BladeRunners mrSpec Nshag timor emma antoszka tltstc Adrinael Yamazaki1kun xinming erk_ mtd_ kooll vandemarX_ m4dnificent beach simplechat Adamant Modius srcerer xavieran andreer housel acieroid franki^ levene__ phadthai johs codemonk1yx nowhereman daniel_ zophy redline6561 sea4ever Anarch TomJ Yuuhi` sentry christop` potatishandlarn sheepz xyxxyyy benny tritchey OliverUv Guest61717 sellout marienz salva c|mell 13:47:38 -!- names: puddingpimp billstclair Salamander djinni` rapacity REPLeffect JuanDaugherty setheus MaxMuen sonnym PuffTheMagic s0ber tsuru Jasko sie Borbus smithzv_ lemoinem leod muddyferret CrazyEddy luis sabalaba Odin- mmullis_ Dodek zbigniew clop z0d lnostdal DrForr pr nuba peterhil huangjs Xantoz dose Ralith Aisling sbahra AntiSpamMeta tychoish Euthydemus jsnell scode adeht Buganini froydnj felipe fe[nl]ix Quadrescence schmrkc kvsari guther mathrick lharc ecraven 13:47:38 -!- names: TraumaPony quasisane Tristam fmu turbo24p1g bfein pkhuong hohum_ Draggor hugod Xof chandler lusory bzzbzz spiaggia metasyntax svk_ tvaalen Pepe_ ivan4th bobbysmith007 dmiles_afk pjb ianmcorvidae maharba prip blitz_ vsync Patzy krl cpt_nemo antifuchs `micro ski e-future_ Bucciarati e-future kuwabara angavrilov delYsid Holcxjo yahooooo7 p_l cods eno rotty ramus albino lichtblau holycow mulander incandenza Dazhbog HarryS baley pok amaron jrockway djm ASau` 13:47:38 -!- names: ineiros krappie_ aoh hc_e jpanest cYmen Zhivago MikeSeth qsun pp206 kloeri lonstein mal__ tomaw clog spacebat Fade Davsebamse nullman leviathan dcrawford starseeker Obfuscate gz galdor bougyman erg Tabmow [df] Khisanth Tasunteld rsynnott rootzlevel gds lisppaste Axioplase_ qebab joast tessier l_a_m arbscht abend Tordek stettberger cataska hdurer`` sykopomp fda314925 yacin_ xristos heaumer foom rahul nasloc__ _3b` herbieB_ m4thrick PissedNumlock tokenrove 13:47:38 -!- names: _3b joshe 13:48:31 -!- DrForr [~drforr@pool-173-58-135-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:49:26 zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has joined #lisp 13:49:41 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-139-221.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 13:50:24 gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:33 DrForr [~drforr@pool-173-58-135-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:52:54 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.115.199.198] has joined #lisp 13:55:10 -!- ak70 [~ak70@80.77.204.157] has left #lisp 13:56:37 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [] 13:56:42 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-139-221.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:59:18 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.115.199.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:00:31 sie: you know, if you want help you'd better use paste.lisp.org ; I for one am more inclined to watch what's pasted thru paste.lisp.org than from any other paste service. 14:01:33 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 14:02:11 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:05:22 Well okay  I'll paste there, but I really do think it's pretty bloated compared to sprunge. (as bloated as all the other pasting services). 14:06:15 sie: otherwise, I had once a patch to erc so that when I pasted more than a couple of lines in erc, it would actually go thru paste.lisp.org ; but now with the captcha it would have to be rewritten... 14:07:21 jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-7-68-199.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:09:13 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-202-246.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:17:24 HG` [~HG@xdsl-188-118-136-49.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 14:19:24 Fare, some time ago you posted here a link to paper about ASDF2. could you please post it again? 14:20:38 <_3b> sie: lisppaste has some features that make it much nicer for people trying to help out with other people's code (paren matching, links to hyperspec, annotations) 14:23:19 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-62-164.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 14:24:17 Dodek: http://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/ilc2010draft.pdf 14:24:36 Fare, thank you. 14:25:25 it's about asdf2, but it's also about asdf, dynamic code upgrade, software best practices, and the past, present and future of cl build systems. 14:26:44 jmbr [~jmbr@221.245.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 14:28:15 Fare, i already read that and i liked it, i wanted to share it with my friend. 14:28:24 i just lost the pdf. 14:34:35 'morning 14:35:56 -!- xan_ [~xan@121.141.77.209] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:38:23 brandonz [~brandon@pool-74-97-30-61.prvdri.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:45:13 does LOOP have NEXT-ITERATION? 14:46:34 mathrick: I usually use a WHEN or UNLESS clause before my DO clause--it achieves the same thing, by performing a test and not doing any work in that iteration, thus automatically proceeding to the next iteration 14:46:56 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-69-196.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:47:18 hargettp: yeah, but I'm writing (translating from python, really) code that has about 6 breaks in various places 14:47:31 (actualy, I should be careful: WHEN implies perform the DO clause if the test passes, UNLESS impliess do NOT perform the DO clause if the test passes) 14:47:50 hargettp: I know what WHEN and UNLESS do in CL, thankfully :) 14:48:25 xan_ [~xan@220.118.197.183] has joined #lisp 14:49:50 mathrick: ok, but it then seems asking for NEXT-ITERATION might not be the CL way to do a loop, but oh well :) 14:50:50 hargettp: NEXT-ITERATION is in ITERATE, but I'm working with parenscript, which only has LOOP 14:51:03 I should port ITERATE to parenscript one of these days 14:51:10 mathrick: that would be cool :) 14:54:48 s/break/continue/, it'd be easy to have break with LOOP-FINISH 14:54:54 *mathrick* is annoyed 14:54:56 i've been hesitant to get into iterate 14:55:08 Fade: it's cool, much nicer than LOOP 14:55:09 inasmuch as I can count on loop to be everywhere. 14:55:39 I may be one of the rare oddballs who really likes LOOP :) 14:56:00 I don't dislike loop, especially now that slime seems to do a reasonable job of indenting its form. 14:56:06 I try not to introduce deps on ITERATE for trivial loops if not already there, but for anything complex, all users will have it installed anyway 14:56:36 mathrick: how is iterate superior to loop? 14:56:55 kehoea [~aidan@cl-372.ede-01.nl.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 14:56:56 apart from the 'lispier' syntax. 14:58:38 -!- gz [gz@clozure-93943513.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout] 15:54:44 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 15:54:44 15:54:44 -!- names: ccl-logbot askatasuna sixpoint8 Zephyrus nyef bozhidar fjellfras Ginei_Morioka yrgd carlocci kehoea xan_ pdo brandonz jmbr Salamander HG` jajcloz mattrepl dreish hargettp DrForr zeroish LiamH sdsds ASau Fare moah Edward JimmyRcom dto1 jmcphers ace4016 bgs100 dfox manic12 tankrim stis Bronsa mornfall morphling atomx ThomasP1 Amadiro gravicappa Kae Xach _s1gma hohoho ignas dostoyevsky boyscared ``Erik stepnem tcr urandom__ zomgbie Deesl H4ns navigator wbooze 15:54:44 -!- names: homie Blkt legumbre_ talyz pdelgallego HET2 fiveop slash_ rdd araujo Davidbrcz Krystof serichsen abeaumont symbole slyrus insomniaSalt cmm kleppari BladeRunners mrSpec Nshag timor emma antoszka tltstc Adrinael Yamazaki1kun xinming erk_ mtd_ kooll vandemarX_ m4dnificent beach simplechat Adamant Modius srcerer xavieran andreer housel acieroid franki^ levene__ phadthai johs codemonk1yx nowhereman daniel_ zophy redline6561 sea4ever Anarch TomJ christop` 15:54:44 -!- names: potatishandlarn sheepz xyxxyyy benny tritchey OliverUv Guest61717 sellout marienz salva c|mell puddingpimp billstclair djinni` rapacity REPLeffect JuanDaugherty setheus MaxMuen sonnym PuffTheMagic s0ber tsuru Jasko sie Borbus smithzv_ lemoinem leod muddyferret CrazyEddy luis sabalaba Odin- mmullis_ Dodek zbigniew clop z0d lnostdal pr nuba peterhil huangjs Xantoz dose Ralith Aisling sbahra AntiSpamMeta tychoish Euthydemus jsnell scode adeht Buganini froydnj 15:54:44 -!- names: felipe fe[nl]ix Quadrescence schmrkc kvsari guther mathrick lharc ecraven TraumaPony quasisane Tristam fmu turbo24p1g hohum_ bfein pkhuong Draggor hugod Xof chandler lusory bzzbzz spiaggia metasyntax svk_ tvaalen Pepe_ ivan4th bobbysmith007 dmiles_afk pjb ianmcorvidae maharba prip blitz_ vsync Patzy krl cpt_nemo antifuchs `micro ski e-future_ Bucciarati e-future kuwabara angavrilov delYsid Holcxjo yahooooo7 p_l cods eno rotty ramus albino lichtblau holycow 15:54:44 -!- names: mulander incandenza Dazhbog HarryS baley joshe _3b tokenrove PissedNumlock m4thrick herbieB_ _3b` nasloc__ rahul foom heaumer xristos yacin_ fda314925 sykopomp hdurer`` cataska stettberger Tordek abend arbscht l_a_m tessier joast qebab Axioplase_ lisppaste gds rootzlevel rsynnott Tasunteld Khisanth [df] Tabmow erg bougyman galdor gz Obfuscate starseeker dcrawford leviathan nullman Davsebamse pok amaron jrockway djm ASau` ineiros krappie_ aoh Fade spacebat 15:54:44 -!- names: clog tomaw mal__ lonstein kloeri pp206 qsun 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[~rnewman@rrcs-64-183-136-38.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:15:00 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@rrcs-64-183-136-38.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 19:15:00 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has joined #lisp 19:19:45 -!- wbooze` [~user@xdsl-78-34-108-24.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:19:52 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-78-34-108-24.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:22:33 -!- Edward [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-37-115.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 19:23:15 So, I'm fairly new to lisp and I'm currently trying to parse a given input file, while keeping track of the line number I'm on to provide more useful error messages in case of parse failure 19:23:30 I've got it working in a really hacky way, but I wonder if there's a standard way of doing this? 19:24:05 a standard way to do what? 19:25:14 Phrixos: Special variable which holds the current line number and which is bumped everytime after READ-LINE (or READ-CHAR returns 19:25:22 #\Newline) 19:25:24 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-108-24.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:25:32 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-108-24.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:27:17 In case you have structured parse results, might also make sense to create a slot which holds the line number 19:27:39 -!- m4dnificent is now known as madnificent 19:28:07 depends on the structure of your parser and where you can normalize parse results to a level where no more error checking will be needed 19:29:01 yeah, they're not really that structured, and a given record can span multiple lines 19:29:22 I'm currently shadowing read-line and read-char with my own versions that keep track of newlines as they pass 19:30:23 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl10-156-219.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 19:30:49 That sounds odd. 19:31:19 Usually you introduce functions on top of read-line which do slightly more 19:32:28 You could introduce a gray stream class that does the job? 19:32:40 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-66-100.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:33:15 If records span multiple line, I'd probably go char-by-char and write a function NEXT-CHARACTER which also does the line number bumping 19:33:19 hmmm 19:33:36 -!- moah [~gnu@188.109.175.150] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:33:42 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-203-193.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:33:44 Or more likely NEXT-TOKEN 19:33:57 which skips whitespaces etc perhaps comments 19:34:09 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-203-193.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:35:08 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:35:29 Or you could use FILE-POSITION to obtain a character index, and let emacs take it from there? Admittedly, FILE-POSITION isn't actually guaranteed to give anything more useful than a monotonically increasing value, but it's usually either a character or octet index within the file. 19:36:43 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-66-100.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:36:44 I see an off-by-one luring right there! :-) (file position in CL start form 0, points in emacs from 1) 19:37:10 Well, I've alread got equivalents to next-token and next-record, so i'll have look at the approach and see if i can find a more appropriate way that i'm currently using 19:37:21 the streams idea is interesting, but not something i've used before 19:37:53 doxtor [~doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has joined #lisp 19:38:35 To be fair, the only gray stream I've written thus far has been a character output stream. 19:39:45 _____s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 19:42:43 -!- s1gma_ [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:44:43 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-52-60.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:45:54 -!- ThomasP1 [~thomas@88-134-14-187-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:51:29 i used gray streams to parse Ogg bitstream format 19:51:52 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl10-156-219.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:52:23 i even thought about writing ogg-vorbis decoder in lisp, for fun 19:52:37 That could be interesting. 19:53:00 Somewhere on my possible-projects list is an HM12 decoder in lisp. 19:53:28 the problem is that i don't need it, it's hard to motivate on pure fun 19:55:23 abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:56:09 and rather not to parse, but to provide what's been parsed 19:56:13 Yeah. I hear that. 19:57:22 The reason I'd consider writing an HM12 decoder is that it'd be an improvement over using two instances of mplayer to read from the capture card, but I won't need it until and unless I decommission the machine the card is currently in. 19:58:01 HM12? 19:58:30 p_l: For the IVTV capture cards. 19:59:35 It's basically some half-encoded output from the MPEG encoder, but it's without the second-and-a-half delay that the full encoder introduces. 19:59:41 video decoding would be fun too 19:59:43 Also without audio synchronization, though. 20:00:33 Basically necessary in order to get anything approaching realtime response from this card, which is necessary for things like video games. 20:00:44 with a good CPU you could write clean unoptimized code in CL to play full-HD 20:01:00 MooreCo CPU 20:01:50 by that time, i guess, full-hd wouldn't be in vogue anymore 20:01:56 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:05:21 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 20:05:23 yeah, and the implementation used would need to be Erlang-ish :) 20:07:20 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:07:31 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 20:17:45 -!- smanek [~smanek@c-98-206-218-88.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:19:05 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.60.128] has joined #lisp 20:22:02 -!- jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-7-68-199.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jajcloz] 20:25:48 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:26:48 smanek [~smanek@c-98-206-218-88.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:11 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 20:33:28 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-163-102.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 20:38:03 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.115.160.125] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:39:49 -!- smanek [~smanek@c-98-206-218-88.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:45:01 limetree [~user@c-0be9e155.1226-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:47:59 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:50:51 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 20:53:54 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 20:54:58 -!- Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.165.135] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:55:45 ThomasP1 [~thomas@p54A5981C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:56:28 Ginei_Morioka [~irssi_log@78.114.181.109] has joined #lisp 20:58:06 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.59.223] has joined #lisp 21:00:28 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-163-102.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:03:06 netytan [~netytan@85.211.37.175] has joined #lisp 21:05:03 f0d [~root@unaffiliated/f0d] has joined #lisp 21:06:03 hi guys, i want to learn how to program, is common lisp a good language for a beginner? if so, which book should i start with 21:06:12 otherwise should i just do scheme instead?? 21:06:16 (if so which book should i read) 21:06:23 note i am not good with math _at_all_ 21:06:35 where is bloody minion? 21:06:55 f0d: You haven't programmed before? 21:07:29 f0d: you can try A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation 21:08:00 beach: i wouldn't really say so, the thing is 21:08:07 f0d: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ <- the book stassats` recommended. 21:08:07 beach: i started with c, and failed at it completely 21:08:28 beach: so i'm trying to look for the way to become better so when i go back to c eventually, i wont have problems 21:08:32 *nyef* goes looking for bots. 21:08:33 beach: not sure if that makes sense 21:08:43 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host1-180-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:08:50 :/ 21:08:53 -!- Fare [~Fare@64.119.159.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:09:31 well, Lisp won't teach you C 21:09:42 f0d: I think Lisp is good for learning how to program because it's highly interactive 21:09:48 stassats`: i dont expect it would ;) 21:10:05 Edward [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-41-172.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:10:07 BladeRunners: ok 21:10:09 beach: around? 21:10:40 maybe beach is writing a lengthy and thoughtful reply, don't rush him 21:10:45 f0d: go the url that sellout posted and download that book 21:10:51 f0d: fwiw, I am a fan of getting comfortable with C, because it is the closest to the metal...all other languages (including Lisp) are more abstract....knowing what happens as close to the machine as possible should make working with higher-level abstractions easier :) 21:11:20 Oh, typical. Someone else is using minon's nick... 21:11:21 f0d: download lispworks or allegro Common lisp so you don't have to fight with setting up Emacs (unless you want to) 21:11:22 hargettp: so your saying i should learn c instead? 21:11:31 BladeRunners: i dont mind learning emacs 21:11:39 *nyef* goes looking for the nickserv password. 21:11:45 C is as close to the metal as SBCL is 21:11:53 f0d: at some point you should...altho I completley understand there may be easier languages for grokking the bare basics of programming 21:12:01 provided that you grok VOPs 21:12:11 -!- yrgd [~yrgd@c-98-235-44-106.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:12:18 specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 21:12:30 common-lisp.net cool 21:12:38 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-117-65.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:12:38 Okay, that at least gets specbot running again... 21:12:41 stassats: yes, and a beginner with SBCL is unlikely to grok VOPs :) 21:12:41 \ 21:13:28 jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-7-68-199.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:31 besides, knowing what a pointer actually is means when you deal with abstract uses of them later (e.g., as referrences to cons, or objects, etc.) can help understand what's happening 21:13:34 imho :) 21:14:00 nor inline assembly in C, because otherwise it's not "the closest to the metal" thing 21:14:49 :) 21:15:05 mmk 21:15:25 ill wait for beach 21:15:43 i think he wanted to tell me something 21:15:50 everyone that chimes in is worth listening to ;) 21:15:55 minion [~minion@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 21:15:57 or better, learn how to use a soldering iron, that's as close to the metal as you can get 21:16:14 minion: welcome back! 21:16:14 thanks! 21:16:27 stassats: hey, you pokin' fun? :) 21:16:37 One of these days, I need to sit down and write a proper connection manager for the bots. 21:16:52 *dbrunner* 21:17:02 nyef: can we get minion on #sbcl? 21:17:09 Oh, right. 21:17:16 Let me log back in and take a quick look. 21:17:21 \o/ 21:17:28 Specbot, too? 21:17:35 yes, please! 21:19:39 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:19:43 how do you get a host at common-lisp.net? 21:19:55 f0d: By... asking the admins? 21:20:29 Hit the webserver, poke around, should be easy to find instructions for requesting an account. 21:20:35 But you'll need a GPG key. 21:21:05 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:21:12 is it advisable to use IRC from cl.net? 21:21:28 That I couldn't tell you. 21:22:01 -!- aceluck [~aceluck@175.137.79.23] has quit [Quit: aceluck] 21:22:03 having common-lisp.net in the host doesn't sound like a good reason 21:22:40 heh 21:23:36 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279634293.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: hugod] 21:23:40 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:24:45 nikodemus: That should do it, with the hard part being figuring out how to get them to join without just cycling their connections. 21:25:03 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour2-0-0-cust414.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:25:12 ... And I just screwed it up. 21:25:15 *nyef* sighs. 21:25:40 tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour2-0-0-cust414.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:27:06 Okay, that should really do it. 21:27:19 thanks! 21:27:39 Hi, does anybody works with CL-SQL and SQLite? I am trying to figure out how to INSERT a blob into a sqlite3 database .... 21:28:18 abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:31 Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has joined #lisp 21:30:23 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-66-177.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 21:30:47 skazka [~livencova@83.149.45.30] has joined #lisp 21:30:57 H4ns [~user@m262d36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:43 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@erft-d932f770.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 21:31:48 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-47-197.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:32:33 dbrunner: i think I have code that does that...something not working? 21:32:37 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-119-127.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 21:32:46 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-87-124.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:34:05 :hargettp I have no idea how to write the right code ... (see for example my post on the clsql mailing list: http://lists.b9.com/pipermail/clsql/2010-September/001951.html) 21:34:14 I the idiot 21:34:28 guess beach isnt' coming back 21:34:32 well thnks all 21:34:34 -!- f0d [~root@unaffiliated/f0d] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:34:56 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A5FD6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:36:05 dbrunnner: ah...altho there may be other ways, you may need to encode the blob (base32 or the like)...in my code my "blobs" are actually just big chunks of source code, so I can just do a textual replacement of quotes...because quotes inside the source code can screw up the sql statement handed to CL-SQL 21:36:47 dbrunner: in other words, the statement you are handing to CL-SQL is just a huge string containing a valid SQL INSERT statement...so you need to make sure that strings looks right (quotes can mess it up, for example) 21:37:57 well, I thought of something like that, yes. wenn I dump a blob, I get something like "INSERT INTO "abc" VALUES('abc', X'626F64/92067....')" 21:38:16 but i am not sure how to encode that efficiently 21:38:55 *nyef* remembers seeing one application which encoded a data structure as XML, base64-encoded the XML, split the result into chunks about 1500 characters long, and shoved that into successive records in a table. 21:38:59 dbrunner: I have not used it, but CL-SQL has a functional interface...perhaps it will encode values on its own? Haven't looked myself http://clsql.b9.com/manual/insert-records.html 21:39:23 I was a little less than impressed at what they'd done. 21:39:57 is it a base64 encoding that sqlite3 expects for the blobs? 21:40:17 -!- skazka [~livencova@83.149.45.30] has left #lisp 21:40:56 dbrunner: no, that's just a way of encoding arbitrary binary data into a string with a reduced character set 21:41:11 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.254.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:41:12 atomx [~user@93.112.81.240] has joined #lisp 21:41:14 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:41:36 dbrunner: are you convinced to use CL-SQL? It would appear that CL-SQLITE can handle actual BLOBS as values (actually vectors of octets): http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-sqlite/ 21:41:51 CL-SQL may be suffering because it abstracts across many diff dbs 21:42:02 you may also want to check out http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-sqlite/ 21:42:04 nyef: that too can be fixed with gray streams 21:42:15 stassats`: 21:42:21 stassats`: Not in a C++ application it can't. 21:42:30 hm. perhaps I'll have a look at the cl-sqlite code and adapt it to my code. I want to stay with cl-sql because it is possible i have to use a different db somewhen. 21:42:43 nyef: what's a little greenspunning at that point? 21:43:09 A closed-source C++ application that I didn't (and don't) have the source to. 21:44:17 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:57 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.254.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 21:46:29 hargettp: Thanks for the advice; I'll check that code and look forward to adapt it to my needs! 21:50:50 :) 21:51:36 ikki [~ikki@189.139.180.207] has joined #lisp 21:53:46 -!- slash_1 [~unknown@p4FF0A843.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:54:47 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:56:48 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-52-60.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:57:55 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:58:24 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 22:01:27 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 22:01:28 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:08:32 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:11:05 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:11:27 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:11:42 -!- H4ns [~user@m262d36d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:14:17 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:17:37 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:20:33 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:20:42 hargettp: Ah, cl-sqlite does the job. Thx a lot! 22:20:58 dbrunner: your welcome! 22:21:24 dbrunner: I have used both CL-SQL & CL-SQLITE--I find that I prefer the latter when working with Sqlite 22:21:33 *you're welcome :) 22:28:59 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:29:14 powerje [~powerje@adsl-75-49-19-181.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:33:27 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.59.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:33:58 abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:36:11 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:38:24 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-19-211.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 22:38:47 Kerrick [~Kerrick@kerrick.student.iastate.edu] has joined #lisp 22:39:28 -!- navigator [~navigator@p54895DC0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 22:42:43 petafile [~ben@S010600146c99d4d3.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:42:57 Is there a better way in scheme (racket in particular) to get all but the last member of a list than (reverse (rest (reverse mylist))) ? 22:42:59 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-108-24.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:43:09 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-108-24.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:43:23 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:44:44 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:44:45 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:46:11 petafile: for scheme stuff, try #scheme 22:46:32 petafile: in CL, the function is the obscurely-named BUTLAST. 22:47:02 Xach: Do they let Racket people into #scheme? ;) 22:47:06 hah 22:50:37 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754903.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:52:09 -!- dbrunner [~user@p4FF7517C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:53:05 dbrunner [~user@p4FF7517C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:53:36 -!- dbrunner [~user@p4FF7517C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:00:27 smanek [~smanek@c-98-206-218-88.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:02:07 -!- Edward [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-41-172.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 23:03:56 -!- smanek [~smanek@c-98-206-218-88.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:07:50 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:07:53 -!- _____s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:13:53 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:14:52 -!- christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:31:34 christoph_debian [christoph@sf-ogame.de] has joined #lisp 23:33:55 -!- ThomasP1 [~thomas@p54A5981C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:34:20 dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:41:05 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-19-211.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:43:04 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 23:43:53 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:44:12 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:46:56 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:47:16 abugosh [~Adium@pool-108-15-19-17.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:48:22 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:54:18 -!- dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:55:39 Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 23:56:00 Phoodus [foo@174-17-246-43.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:57:20 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:58:27 -!- netytan [~netytan@85.211.37.175] has quit [Quit: netytan]