00:00:13 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:00:58 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 00:01:05 One of these days, I should blow the dust off of perry and see if I can get it to the point of producing a monitor prompt. 00:01:24 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:02:04 (That's on the topic of obscure DEC operating systems.) 00:02:08 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 00:02:12 heh 00:02:37 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:03:18 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 00:03:20 At least "perry" is better than "lameulator", its original name. 00:03:28 nyef: btw, do you think SBCL/arm would fit in ~70MBs (maybe more if I can kill enough soft or use swap) 00:03:40 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-92-201.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:03:48 Does SBCL/x86-64 fit in such space? 00:03:48 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:04:02 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h19n4c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 00:04:04 ... barely 00:04:10 Or, for a more accurate comparison, SBCL/x86? 00:04:24 hmm... should fit 00:04:28 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 00:04:41 anyway, I've got an ARMv6KZ and I'm not afraid to use it! :D 00:04:57 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:05:02 Ah! Stronger than my ARMv5TEB. 00:05:16 ... What's the "KZ" mean? 00:05:18 nyef: what device? some XScale? 00:05:25 I think so, yes. 00:05:27 A SLUG. 00:05:43 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 00:05:59 (Which, yes, means that it would have to swap before it even loads the core into memory.) 00:06:08 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:06:23 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-92-201.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 00:06:24 v6KZ - ARMv6 with all the goodies of the 6L, with NEON (aka VFP) included, Z - differentiates it from the SMP-capable v6K 00:06:40 So, Z means Zero-SMP? 00:06:49 don't remember exact details, it's on wikipedia 00:06:53 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 00:06:54 nyef: maybe 00:06:56 Fair enough. 00:06:58 powerje: Having trouble? 00:07:21 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:07:33 I know that the only difference between v6K and v6KZ is that the former designation is used for the MPCore chips 00:07:52 anyway, I've got 160MB total memory (all accessible to kernel) 00:08:02 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 00:08:20 I've still got my arm-port tree around here somewhere, and I should be able to pick up where I left off if necessary... 00:08:30 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:09:12 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 00:09:15 *nyef* wonders if a five-minute ban would be sufficient to keep powerje from constantly rejoining the channel... 00:09:33 *p_l* is happy he /ignore'd joins 00:09:42 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:09:59 (Theory being that it would prevent one join, thus causing further joins to not be attempted due to not being in the channel. 00:10:26 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 00:10:51 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:10:58 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 00:11:12 You know, porting the compiler to ARM would be a convincing way for a newbie to obtain a commit bit. 00:11:36 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 00:11:59 hah. I don't see myself as good enough for that yet 00:12:02 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:04 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:12:18 well, I think I might be able to pull it, but I've got enough distraction to be detracted 00:12:35 I'd like to get my crazy PaaS lisp thingy going first :D 00:12:40 disumu_ [~disumu@pD4B9EC86.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:47 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:12:48 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 00:12:57 But that's just the thing: If you aren't good enough to do it when you start, you will be by the time you're done. 00:13:15 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:13:22 yeah, I recall someone saying in forewordof a book that he learned the stuff by writing that book :D 00:13:37 -!- disumu [~disumu@p579F88EE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:13:46 my main issue is more with time 00:13:49 -!- disumu_ is now known as disumu 00:13:53 -!- morphling_ [~stefan@gssn-5f757518.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:13:58 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 00:14:24 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:14:32 And, really, the main ingredients are already knowing how to program and sitting down and figuring out how to make it work. 00:14:43 -!- dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:15:10 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 00:15:35 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:16:20 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 00:16:46 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:17:28 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 00:17:59 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:17:59 -!- _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: irl ragequit] 00:18:38 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 00:19:07 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:19:53 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 00:20:18 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:21:03 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 00:21:29 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:22:15 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 00:22:18 That said, while it might be fun to continue with the port, I don't see it being a priority for me for a while. 00:22:30 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.57.112] has joined #lisp 00:22:40 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:22:45 Maybe come December. 00:23:25 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 00:23:26 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.60.128] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3] 00:23:51 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:24:33 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 00:25:02 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:25:48 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 00:26:12 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:26:40 tnoborio [~tnoborio@EM111-188-85-252.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:26:58 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 00:27:26 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:27:58 Does anyone know of any terminal emulators written in lisp? 00:28:08 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 00:28:30 I don't, but it's something I've occasionally contemplated writing, why? 00:28:34 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:28:45 multi-gnome-terminal sucking? 00:29:29 eh, urxvt is perl scriptable and i'm bored with that :P 00:29:43 -!- ignotus [~ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:30:02 So, I have a challenge for you, if you've got some spare hacking time... :-P 00:30:11 derrida: hack it to use ECL 00:30:22 -!- wioux [~pswoo@76-218-106-110.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:30:24 p_l: hmmm 00:30:25 ... And that wasn't what I had in mind. 00:30:28 haha 00:30:31 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 00:30:38 nyef: do tell 00:30:56 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:31:04 The basics of opening a PTY are fairly well defined, and there are helper programs for PTY allocations on some systems. 00:31:34 Thus: Obtaining a PTY for a terminal program Isn't Hard, and that's the low-level tricky bit of writing your own terminal emulator. 00:31:40 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 00:31:43 *derrida* nods 00:31:54 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:13b5:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Client Quit] 00:31:56 Most of the rest is a matter of handling escape codes, dealing with the UI, et cetera. 00:32:01 that's more what I had in mind 00:32:32 ignotus [~ignotus@catv-89-133-33-26.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 00:32:32 -!- ignotus [~ignotus@catv-89-133-33-26.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 00:32:32 ignotus [~ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has joined #lisp 00:34:53 Actually, there's an openpty() function on Linux, and from there you might well be able to use RUN-PROGRAM or some variant thereof... 00:36:21 just remember that after fork() you better only call execve() 00:36:31 ... LOGNAD isn't a function in the standard, is it? 00:37:01 (And I don't even get the excuse of being drunk when I wrote it, as that was from hours ago.) 00:37:26 Heh. Reminds me of my SPORK function. 00:38:30 minion: bug 451111? 00:38:30 watch out, you'll make krystof angry 00:38:34 Hrm. 00:38:40 minion: lp451111? 00:38:40 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``lp451111''. 00:38:53 Clearly, I've forgotten the required syntax. 00:39:08 https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/451111 00:39:28 -!- khumba [~khumba@S010600259ce46bb1.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Oyasumi.] 00:39:30 Comment #3 contains the function definition. 00:39:36 -!- Madsy^ [~madman@ti0207a340-0132.bb.online.no] has quit [] 00:39:41 dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:39:53 LOGNAD rofl 00:40:37 -!- plediii [~plediii@nat-168-7-236-9.rice.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:41:13 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:41:27 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 00:41:29 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:42:43 nyef: cmucl seems to have a UNIX:UNIX-OPENPTY interface to openpty 00:43:05 the craziness of fork() in multithreaded code means I'll have to use a custom-patched CCL for my project :/ 00:43:07 Yeah, but that's CMUCL. 00:43:27 nyef: yeah hehe, now to make sbcl do this .. :P 00:43:31 p_l: Heh. Talk to fare. He keeps a custom-patched unithreaded CCL. 00:43:45 derrida: SB-ALIEN or UFFI. 00:43:47 nyef: btw, the idea I feel more about for SBCL hacking right now is making it have full list of threads, including *all* native ones 00:44:03 Good luck with that. 00:44:16 nyef: actually not hard to implement, though very OS-specific 00:44:41 as the easiest way to ensure nothing escapes is to muck with ld.so 00:45:25 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.52.202] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:46:56 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:47:44 -!- jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:49:05 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:50:11 plediii [~plediii@nat-168-7-236-9.rice.edu] has joined #lisp 00:52:13 lnostdal_ [~quassel@56.84-48-233.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 00:52:29 -!- lnostdal [~quassel@56.84-48-233.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:52:48 -!- lnostdal-android [~androirc@56.84-48-233.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:54:28 shadeyman [shadeyman@1Cust2987.an3.atl16.da.uu.net] has joined #lisp 00:55:20 rich_holygoat_ [~rnewman@rrcs-64-183-136-38.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:55:20 -!- rich_holygoat_ [~rnewman@rrcs-64-183-136-38.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 00:55:20 rich_holygoat_ [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has joined #lisp 00:56:43 -!- tnoborio [~tnoborio@EM111-188-85-252.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:57:36 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:58:10 -!- shadeyman [shadeyman@1Cust2987.an3.atl16.da.uu.net] has left #lisp 00:58:56 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:58:56 -!- rich_holygoat_ is now known as rich_holygoat 01:04:03 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has quit [Quit: rich_holygoat] 01:05:17 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 01:05:20 -!- tltstc [~tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: tltstc] 01:10:14 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-21-181.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:12:09 -!- Nshag [~none@AClermont-Ferrand-551-1-64-146.w86-206.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 01:12:55 Nshag [~none@AClermont-Ferrand-551-1-64-146.w86-206.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 01:13:04 -!- Nshag [~none@AClermont-Ferrand-551-1-64-146.w86-206.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 01:16:23 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:17:58 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 01:28:16 benny` [~user@i577A1753.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 01:29:56 -!- benny` is now known as benny 01:30:03 -!- disumu [~disumu@pD4B9EC86.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 01:32:27 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.219] has joined #lisp 01:43:33 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:45:00 -!- Edward [ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-12-70.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 01:45:28 Edward [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-12-70.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 01:47:42 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Restarting Emacs...] 01:48:07 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 01:51:18 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:52:13 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:58:19 -!- dlowe1 [~dlowe@c-98-216-106-0.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 02:02:26 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 02:04:08 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.52.202] has joined #lisp 02:04:43 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 02:04:55 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 02:06:14 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Client Quit] 02:07:10 Hmm. I guess I don't quite understand how character completion works in slime. 02:08:51 astoon [~user@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 02:09:25 Clearly, it operates on the FM principle! (It's F*cking Magic.) 02:10:59 Heh. 02:11:34 I have something that kind of works and it shows the completions, but slime replaces all underscores with dashes. Don't know where that happens. 02:12:50 -!- Edward [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-12-70.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 02:13:45 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 02:18:29 Edward [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-12-70.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 02:18:36 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.52.202] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:21:40 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 02:23:37 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 02:24:07 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:28:40 stassats: Around? 02:29:06 yes 02:30:55 A question. In swank-c-p-c, longest-compound-prefix has an optional delimiter character (spelled as delimeter?), but untokenize-completion always puts a hyphen in. Should untokenize-completion use the delimiter instead of a hyphen? 02:31:54 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.52.202] has joined #lisp 02:33:59 I was playing with character name completion with cmucl and #\greek_small_letter_alp gets completed as #\greek-small-letter-alpha, which isn't recognized by cmucl as a character name. The delimiter must be an underscore (or space). 02:34:12 -!- Ginei_Morioka [irssi_log@78.112.42.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:35:06 Some part of me is asking "are you sure that's not a CMUCL bug?" 02:35:31 That a hypen is not allowed? 02:35:39 Er, hyphen. 02:35:43 Ginei_Morioka [irssi_log@78.114.155.240] has joined #lisp 02:35:45 Yeah. 02:36:25 Then again, that part of me is probably still under the influence of alcohol, and is clearly trying to stir up trouble. 02:36:34 Maybe. But it confuses things for characters like cjk_compatibility_ideograph-f935. 02:38:03 I think the general rule for cmucl is to take the Unicode name and allow an underscore where there is a space in the Unicode name. The unicode name of that character is "CJK COMPATIBILITY IDEOGRAPH-F935" 02:39:28 -!- Edward [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-12-70.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 02:39:36 Yeah, as I said, the part of me that wants to shift the blame to CMUCL is clearly trying to stir up trouble. 02:39:39 *rtoym* wonders if delimeter is some variant spelling of delimiter in some other language. 02:40:15 *nyef* was wondering about the differences between kilometer, kibimeter, and kibometer earlier today. 02:40:17 Stirring the pot is always good. 02:40:32 Blkt` [~user@net-93-146-149-37.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #lisp 02:40:41 At least one of which is a completely silly concept. 02:40:52 kibimeter? 02:41:22 1024 meters, of course! 02:41:30 rtoym: did you get a character-completion-set implementation? 02:42:22 (Think kilobyte vs. kibibyte.) 02:42:25 stassats: Partial. Paul Foley wrote one for me but it's a little buggy because greek_small_letter_alpha doesn't list itself as a possible completion. 02:43:14 But otherwise it does work, except for the algorithmically derived names and the common semistandard names like newline, etc. 02:43:40 -!- Blkt [~user@net-188-152-128-146.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:44:04 stassats: I see that acl has a character-completion-set implementation. 02:44:20 yes 02:45:12 -!- astoon [~user@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:45:27 nyef: I was thinking kibometer had something to do with measuring kibozing. 02:45:39 and regarding delimiter, yes, it should take it into account 02:45:44 Something like that, yes. 02:46:12 Or just how many times kibo has posted over some period or in some newsgroup. 02:46:51 As I said, one of the three is a completely silly concept. 02:47:10 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-76-118-76-200.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:47:47 delimeter - sir your sandwich is too short 02:47:51 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has quit [Quit: Kerrick] 02:50:36 quiz question: how to transform (format nil "~{~A~^-~}" tokens) so that hyphen is variable, other than constructing a control-string or 02:50:43 (format nil "~{~A~#,1^~a~}" (mapcan (lambda (x) (list x #\_)) tokens)) 02:51:07 -!- Ginei_Morioka [irssi_log@78.114.155.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:51:07 -!- metasyntax [~taylor@72.86.89.174] has quit [Quit:  In our sky there is no limits, and masters we have none; heavy metal is the only one! ] 02:51:55 *rtoym* was lazy and just constructed the control string. For testing. 02:52:13 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:52:48 Ginei_Morioka [irssi_log@78.112.51.169] has joined #lisp 02:54:19 Kibo went to the same school I did. Didn't know him, though. 02:54:39 -!- manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:00:04 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:00:11 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.52.202] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:01:41 -!- Blkt` [~user@net-93-146-149-37.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:02:11 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:05:05 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-119-221.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 03:05:24 ok, i committed it, along with fixing delhimeters 03:08:15 Thanks for the fix. 03:08:24 thanks for the report! 03:09:38 though i went with control string construction, it's still interesting whether there are neat solutions to the question above 03:11:11 Good question. 03:12:40 format-golf competition 03:13:50 The completion code really wants all possible completions, doesn't it? So it can display them in a buffer, right? 03:14:15 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:14:36 right 03:15:15 -!- BladeRunners [~bladerunn@24-107-123-168.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has left #lisp 03:15:45 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-129-229.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 03:17:04 What do you think about showing just partial completions? So greek_small_letter_al shows greek_small_letter_alpha and greek_small_letter_alpha_with. Selecting with will then complete with greek_small_letter_alpha_with_{dasia,macron,oxia,perispomeni,psili,tonos,varia,vrachy,ypgrgrammeni}. Then choosing one of these would give more possible completions. 03:17:21 But this would be a bit different from how emacs does completion on other things. 03:18:06 i don't really know, i don't use c-p-c completion 03:19:18 fuzzy completion would show something like that, but it doesn't work on characters 03:20:26 really good completion is quite a topic 03:20:40 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 03:21:00 fast, accurate, fuzzy, context sensitive, bells, etc. 03:23:09 You don't expect "m-v" to complete to something? 03:24:53 i expect, but to several somethings 03:25:00 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ibatsouvlrjzxeqq] has joined #lisp 03:25:35 Hmm. I'm not even sure what completion package I have loaded. I guess it's c-p-c. 03:26:33 Oh, it's slime-fancy which hash c-p-c and fuzzy. 03:27:00 slime-complete-symbol-function is the variable controlling it 03:28:12 Ok. It's slime-complete-symbol*, so I guess that's c-p-c. 03:28:28 yeah, confusing name 03:28:49 -!- Ginei_Morioka [irssi_log@78.112.51.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:30:16 Ginei_Morioka [irssi_log@78.114.149.203] has joined #lisp 03:30:21 c-p-c works for me, so I guess I don't need to try out fuzzy or anything. 03:32:40 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:33:07 Good morning everyone! 03:35:35 -!- Ginei_Morioka [irssi_log@78.114.149.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:39:51 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-wucqjygrskutcscv] has joined #lisp 03:47:51 Ginei_Morioka [irssi_log@78.114.185.16] has joined #lisp 03:54:26 -!- Ginei_Morioka [irssi_log@78.114.185.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:12:07 tltstc [~tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:12:57 -!- ignotus [~ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 04:16:49 howdy beach 04:20:38 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:22:45 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:24:56 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:25:22 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@cpc1-bour2-0-0-cust414.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:26:04 -!- plediii [~plediii@nat-168-7-236-9.rice.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:49:32 soverton [~soverton@adsl-95-166-156.jan.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 04:55:46 -!- soverton [~soverton@adsl-95-166-156.jan.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 05:01:14 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:05:16 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:21:28 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@rrcs-64-183-136-38.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:21:28 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@rrcs-64-183-136-38.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 05:21:28 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has joined #lisp 05:23:19 laxd [~kt@142.80-202-106.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 05:27:12 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-21-181.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:32:06 fusss [~chatzilla@cpe-184-59-202-37.new.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:32:26 which generic library had the uuencoding/decoding functions? 05:33:03 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:34:06 execve [~execve@ppp-81-25-57-185.ultranet.ru] has joined #lisp 05:35:54 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:36:37 ldunn [~user@d110-32-131-191.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 05:37:37 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-87-124.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 05:38:50 -!- execve [~execve@ppp-81-25-57-185.ultranet.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:41:08 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 05:42:17 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:47:10 gko [~gko@111.82.52.231] has joined #lisp 05:47:19 -!- tsuru [~charlie@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:47:45 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-87-124.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:50:49 -!- loomer [~loomer@unaffiliated/loomer] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:51:00 red1ynx [~Dzmitry@91.149.140.201] has joined #lisp 05:54:56 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 05:56:11 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 05:59:32 *fusss* is winning with mel-base; assuming all my incoming mail has attachments base64'ed (too lazy to check the spec) 06:03:14 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-21-181.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:08:14 -!- pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:08:25 Good morning everyone! 06:08:55 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 06:09:19 -!- symbole [~user@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 06:09:31 -!- symbole` is now known as symbole 06:09:40 Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has joined #lisp 06:09:51 slash_ [~unknown@p5DD1C1AF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:12:42 hey spiaggia 06:16:39 claint [~user@88.243.129.19] has joined #lisp 06:16:47 minion: memo for pkhuong_: How would you comment on this dumb monkey translation from C re SSE usage? http://github.com/angavrilov/ecl-sse/blob/master/contrib/x86-sse/test-sfmt.lisp 06:16:47 Remembered. I'll tell pkhuong_ when he/she/it next speaks. 06:16:52 -!- dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:17:31 DaDa` [~user@20.94.63.81.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 06:20:09 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:23:47 -!- Pepe_ [~ppjet@bouah.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:29:55 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:30:43 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: A subtle thought that is in error may yet give rise to fruitful inquiry that can establish truths of great value.] 06:31:03 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 06:35:46 -!- rotty_ is now known as rotty 06:36:45 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:37:51 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 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[~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:17:27 good morning 07:25:17 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:26:15 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-125-174.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 07:27:17 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 07:28:24 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-48-86.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:28:42 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has quit [Quit: rich_holygoat] 07:29:08 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@rrcs-64-183-136-38.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:29:08 -!- rich_holygoat [~rnewman@rrcs-64-183-136-38.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 07:29:33 Beetny [~Beetny@203.202.52.112] has joined #lisp 07:29:46 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-99-144.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:29:46 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 07:30:30 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has quit [Quit: Kerrick] 07:30:43 -!- rotty81 [53d79a05@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.215.154.5] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:31:06 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 07:43:01 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p5DD1C1AF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:45:12 xan_ [~xan@124.62.3.57] has joined #lisp 07:45:36 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ibatsouvlrjzxeqq] has left #lisp 07:48:16 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 07:51:23 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 07:53:31 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:53:39 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:56:02 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:56:42 loxs [~loxs@213.169.45.106] has joined #lisp 07:57:18 Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 08:01:06 -!- xan_ [~xan@124.62.3.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:02:02 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-92-18-14.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Read 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homie [91fd03c7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.145.253.3.199] has joined #lisp 08:42:59 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-42-143.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 08:44:40 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-92-201.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:47:48 tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour2-0-0-cust414.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:49:29 *fusss* just realized how their tweets made a lot of #lispers more interesting 08:57:21 lo 08:57:26 how is the closure going 08:59:38 tfb [~tfb@94.197.12.241.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:00:24 vng [~vng@1.139.39-62.rev.gaoland.net] has joined #lisp 09:01:22 Good morning! 09:03:39 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 09:04:48 -!- red1ynx [~Dzmitry@91.149.140.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:08:10 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:09:33 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 09:11:11 Joreji [~thomas@77-066.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 09:11:33 Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 09:12:02 xan_ [~xan@121.141.77.209] has joined #lisp 09:23:49 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 09:24:09 hello vng, how are things? 09:24:09 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.109] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:24:24 hello spiaggia 09:24:41 it's fine 09:24:53 spiaggia: how are you? 09:25:30 vng: Great, thanks! 09:26:23 spiaggia: today is strike day in France 09:26:24 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:26:54 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour2-0-0-cust414.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:27:06 Off with your sabots. 09:28:04 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:29:22 vng: I know. I got a lift with my colleague Marie to work. I guess there are no strikes in Vietnam, right? 09:29:23 -!- DaDa` [~user@20.94.63.81.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:29:56 spiaggia: no, there isn't 09:30:36 spiaggia: luckily, buses are still working :) 09:31:13 vng: I am guessing buses are not working everywhere. 09:31:58 hello spiaggia 09:32:11 spiaggia: they are still working, so I don't have to go to the lab on foot 09:32:28 tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour2-0-0-cust414.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:32:42 Hey mvilleneuve. 09:33:33 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 09:34:22 vng: Alternatively, you could join the demonstrations. This might be the only opportunity for you to see how they work. :) 09:35:46 vng: Oh, I have a Vietnamese question for you. What's the word used to express `that' as in "my friend said that you have a new house" for instance? 09:35:58 spiaggia: which demonstrations? 09:36:20 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.234.143] has joined #lisp 09:36:22 vng: They are all over the country, probably the closest one would be in the center of Paris. 09:36:28 that: rng 09:36:37 vng: I thought so, thanks. 09:36:53 retirement specs 09:37:29 vng: The demonstrations are linked to the strikes. They are usually pretty big manifestations where thousands of people march with banners indicating what they are dissatisfied with. 09:37:56 spiaggia: ah 09:45:56 atomx [~user@93.112.81.240] has joined #lisp 09:48:06 Dilberto [~Dilberto@189.220.22.25.cable.dyn.cableonline.com.mx] has joined #lisp 09:48:07 -!- bobbysmith0071 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:48:13 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:48:18 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:50:03 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 09:50:17 -!- Dilberto [~Dilberto@189.220.22.25.cable.dyn.cableonline.com.mx] has quit [K-Lined] 09:55:13 spiaggia: what's the cause of the current strikes? 09:56:52 Adamant: The government is planning to diminish the conditions of retirement. 09:57:25 ah. that's likely going to be on the menu here in .us sooner or later as well. 09:57:48 raise age requirements, reduce benefits, or more likely, both. 09:57:58 Adamant: Yes, I see. 09:59:22 [to get back on topic] Hmm, the code I came up with for the SICL reader is pretty ugly, but it is also very fast. 09:59:27 spiaggia: unfortunately, current retirement systems weren't designed for the reality of people living into their 90's and having gone maybe a third of their lives without working. 09:59:44 yes. 09:59:46 Adamant: That definitely is going to create problems at some point. 10:00:15 how's the reader going? 10:00:52 Adamant: I have code for reading all tokens, but not all of it is working. Must standard reader macros are still missing. 10:00:58 ah. 10:01:16 have you already optimized it pretty good, leading to teh ugly? 10:01:46 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-203-193.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:01:52 Yes, it looks like it is twice as fast as that of SBCL on integers and floats, and perhaps 30% faster for symbols. 10:01:59 good deal. 10:02:22 I am cheating though, and taking advantage of important special cases. It is possible that it is not as fast when some of the other cases happen. 10:02:30 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-203-193.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 10:03:43 But when it is done, I want the temptation of replacing the native reader by the SICL one to be irresistible to implementers of CL systems :) 10:03:55 :P 10:04:19 And that goes for the other SICL modules as well of course. 10:04:33 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.57.112] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:04:34 the idea of being able to write a core in whatever language comes up and bootstrap a full CL implementation from there is pretty cool. 10:05:53 -!- hlavaty [~user@77-22-104-162-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:05:58 Adamant: Yeah, that would be great. And it would significantly decrease implementation-specific maintenance efforts. 10:08:01 spiaggia: I'm just thinking of Android quasi-invalidating a lot of JVM-targeted backends; being able to write a implementation and then put the rest on that would probably help avoid similar curveballs in the future 10:08:41 Adamant: What did they do exactly? 10:09:13 spiaggia: Dalvik has it's own bytecode language and uses a register-based VM 10:09:27 you can convert JVM bytecode to Dalvik bytecode but it's a bit weird. 10:09:58 So much for "write-once, run everywhere". 10:11:57 Larry's lawyers will be taking care of that. 10:12:19 They are certainly trying. 10:14:59 Larry's lawyers are only in for licensing fees 10:23:45 Blkt [~user@net-93-146-149-37.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #lisp 10:23:52 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 10:24:25 aceluck [~aceluck@175.137.79.23] has joined #lisp 10:24:40 good day everyone 10:25:20 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 10:27:24 hello Blkt 10:27:40 hi 10:29:18 hlavaty [~user@77-22-104-162-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 10:31:56 Bronsa [~bronsa@host213-180-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 10:32:52 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-066.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:34:35 bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has joined #lisp 10:36:53 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@cpe-184-59-202-37.new.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:39:23 Joreji [~thomas@77-066.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 10:39:26 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:44:23 pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has joined #lisp 10:44:49 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:45:58 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:46:44 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 10:47:43 does swank load an init file when loaded and/or started? 10:49:42 prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-36-180.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 10:51:30 when loaded 10:53:03 -!- tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour2-0-0-cust414.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:53:24 When I press "toggle breakpoint" in Lispworks I get a dialog "No code at this point" ? 10:53:45 Yuuhi [benni@p54839CF1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:54:00 in a body ? 10:54:05 or just before it ? 10:54:29 on opening parenthess 10:54:48 or in body 10:55:09 must be a bug then 10:55:46 I succeded once on opening parenthess 10:56:04 I don't know why 10:57:01 I'll try to reinstall Lispworks 10:58:01 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.199.58] has joined #lisp 10:59:23 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-066.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:59:23 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host213-180-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:59:59 -!- prljavi_hari [~h@dh207-36-180.xnet.hr] has left #lisp 11:01:22 tcr [~tcr@cpc1-bour2-0-0-cust414.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 11:01:36 sharps [~user@ip-118-90-5-34.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has joined #lisp 11:06:11 dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 11:11:37 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 11:12:39 -!- baldwin is now known as k2t0f12d 11:16:25 pmd: Yes, it loads ~/.swank.lisp when loaded 11:18:06 stassats, tcr: thanks 11:18:14 it seems a good place where to initialize the default port and coding system 11:18:32 but i was looking at start-swank.lisp, and it has hard-coded values in the call to create-server 11:18:38 -!- gko [~gko@111.82.52.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:18:45 and default-server-port is a constant, not a variable... 11:18:59 -!- Phoodus [foo@174-17-246-43.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:21:14 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 11:24:37 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has 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[91fd03c7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.145.253.3.199] has quit [] 13:12:35 -!- atomx [~user@93.112.81.240] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:14:42 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:15:39 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 13:19:29 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-33-23.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 13:23:46 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-21-181.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:04 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-ukbcisdjehrnkkkc] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:31:45 Subhro [~bsdboy@122.177.122.217] has joined #lisp 13:31:54 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Disconnected by services] 13:32:52 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-066.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:34:58 -!- Subhro [~bsdboy@122.177.122.217] has quit [Client Quit] 13:35:19 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 13:35:59 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.17.188.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 13:36:03 red1ynx [~Dzmitry@91.149.140.201] has joined #lisp 13:37:39 lnostdal-android [~androirc@56.84-48-233.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 13:39:55 xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@116.227.199.58] has joined #lisp 13:40:01 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-21-181.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:42:13 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.5.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:43:36 I'm wondering how to best express "match everything except two consecutive spaces" in a regular expression 13:45:17 ([^ ].*)|(.*[^ ]) 13:45:53 nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-129-229.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 13:46:00 not sure if that's the best way, or if it works at all, actually. :) 13:46:38 I don't think either :-) 13:47:14 you don't think it works? 13:47:17 regex-coach to the rescue! 13:47:55 surely that's one space, three or more spaces, or anything made up of non-spaces? 13:48:18 postamar [~postamar@x-132-204-240-127.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 13:48:22 [^ ][^ ]*|() 13:48:38 ( | +|[^ ]*) 13:48:40 (not tested...) 13:48:45 mine also not tested 13:49:53 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:50:10 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.234.143] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 13:52:59 hmm, mine should have been ([^ ].)|(.[^ ]) but I was assuming only two chars. 13:53:18 I actually want to disallow two spaces or more 13:53:38 mine doesn't work, it doesn't allow one space 13:53:44 tcr: search for " " then? :) 13:55:15 tcr: I think you want negative lookahead (: 13:55:42 I think it's hard to say what's wanted from just that spec :-) 13:55:49 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.52.202] has joined #lisp 13:55:56 I think at this point it's traditional to say "what do you really want to do?" 13:56:02 admittedly (: 13:56:05 also "in what respect can this possibly be on-topic for #lisp?" 13:56:20 ^\(\([^ ]\| [^ ]\)*\|[^ ]\| \)$ 13:56:43 Krystof: #+clisp (regexp:match "^\\(\\([^ ]\\| [^ ]\\)*\\|[^ ]\\| \\)$" line) 13:57:41 I'm using cl-ppcre :-) 13:59:29 I'm missing some match. This should be better: ^\([^ ]\| [^ ]\)* ?\)$ 14:01:15 (?:[^ ]| (?! )) # is my entry, and completely untested (: 14:01:31 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:02:33 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:02:58 mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:03:25 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 14:03:40 clisp seriously defaults to basic posix regexp syntax? 14:10:54 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-lezterawfrvwjccr] has joined #lisp 14:12:04 atomx [~user@93.112.81.240] has joined #lisp 14:12:48 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:15:02 -!- xan_ [~xan@121.141.77.209] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:15:15 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.17.188.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 14:21:28 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-125-174.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:23:10 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:24:47 silenius [~silenus@f053006094.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:24:59 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:28:14 -!- execve [~execve@ppp-81-25-57-185.ultranet.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:31:11 xan_ [~xan@220.118.197.183] has joined #lisp 14:32:48 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:34:18 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:35:57 milanj [~milanj_@109-93-205-42.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 14:37:43 execve [~execve@ppp-81-25-57-185.ultranet.ru] has joined #lisp 14:38:15 dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:40:45 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 14:43:48 jsnell: clisp regexp is a FFI to regex(3). 14:50:06 -!- salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Quit: salva] 14:55:30 Joreji [~thomas@77-066.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:58:52 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-87-124.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 14:59:30 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.52.202] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:01:01 Bronsa [~bronsa@host213-180-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:10:46 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-21-181.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:13:26 jdz [~jdz@host17-12-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:18:48 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:22:22 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 15:24:23 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:26:17 -!- sharps [~user@ip-118-90-5-34.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:27:38 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:28:21 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-107.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:28:52 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483BDC5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:29:26 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:29:33 Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 15:29:40 jcowan [~John@p-68-237-140-231.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 15:29:42 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:29:43 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 15:30:33 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p54839CF1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:31:38 Does anyone know of any commonly used packages that make use of potential numbers? 15:31:38 jcowan, memo from Riastradh: OK, Google's search fails to equate canonically equivalent text -- but can you show me the code causing the bug in Google, and explain why this or that API would help to reduce the chance that someone would make the same bug again? 15:33:03 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-66-82.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 15:33:28 jcowan: well, all of them do. 15:33:57 jcowan: all numbers have some textual representation that is a potential number. 15:34:18 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:34:34 what is a potential number? 15:34:51 pjb: I must speak by the card, or equivocation will undo me. Very well; but you knew what I meant. 15:35:02 hypno: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/02_caa.htm 15:35:51 _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 15:35:57 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 15:36:15 -!- _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:36:29 -!- bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:36:33 jcowan: it would depend mostly on the implementation. It's theorically possible to define reader macros to be able to read "non conventionnal" potential numbers as something specific, but it would be harder to do than to patch the implementation (because of the lack of the right hook in all lisp readers (but mine ;-) ). 15:37:03 jcowan: said otherwise, I never noticed any library defining a syntax for "non conventionnal" potential numbers. 15:37:59 Usually, they just use normal reader macros. Eg. my invoice package defines a #m reader macro to read devises. iolib defines #/ to read IP addresses. 15:38:28 Yes, I assumed it would have to be done through clever use of readtables. So nobody has a quaternion package, say, that understands things like 1+2i+3j+4k? 15:38:46 An implementation or library could define 123.123.123.123 to read as an IPv4 address, and 1234:1234:1234:1234:1234:1234:1234:1234 to read as an IPv6 address. 15:39:09 jcowan: ah, thanks. 15:39:20 jcowan: notice that for complex, the standard defines #C(1 2) instead of 1+2i. 15:39:34 Quite so. 15:39:44 It's much easier to implement #Q(1 2 3 4) than 1+2i+3j+4k. 15:40:18 pjb: what is that kind of number called? 15:40:53 #Q(1 2 3 4) would be a reader macro to read Quaternions. 1+2i+3j+4k would be a potential number syntax for quaternions. 15:41:06 thanks :) 15:41:12 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 15:41:36 -!- silenius [~silenus@f053006094.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:44:54 1234:1234:1234:1234:1234:1234:1234:1234 does not appear to meet the definition of a potential number in 2.3.1.1.2. 15:45:08 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-lezterawfrvwjccr] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:45:15 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-cqjbtybpzwkovwfa] has joined #lisp 15:45:19 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-cqjbtybpzwkovwfa] has left #lisp 15:45:40 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:45:52 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:46:39 Indeed, the definition there is rather obscure. Rule 1 excludes : (when used as a package marker) from the syntax of potential numbers, but rule 3 goes to the trouble of saying that a token beginning with : has an undefined interpretation. 15:47:21 Furthermore, I do not see how you ask an arbitrary readtable whether a given character is a digit, letter, ratio marker, or whatever. 15:48:29 -!- kvsari [~kvsari@203.171.93.21.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:48:32 RyanT5000 [~ryan@pool-72-93-111-149.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:48:55 so, is there a good book on program architecture in lisp? 15:49:26 as in, how to design large-to-very-large programs with lots of programmers 15:49:57 I'm not sure there's a good book on how to do that anywhere 15:50:15 if you need lots of programmers, you're doing it wrong ;) 15:50:35 haha well, there are plenty of *bad* books on it in the OOP world 15:50:43 RyanT5000: most books on that are trying to sell you something 15:50:53 read the mythical man month first 15:50:53 -!- execve [~execve@ppp-81-25-57-185.ultranet.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:50:59 aceluck: that's true for some things, but, e.g., if you have many clients each with different needs, then *someone* has to translate their needs into code 15:51:07 RyanT5000: I'd say it depends so much of the type of the program that there's no general method 15:51:08 aceluck: yeah, i've read that 15:51:29 not that i know. i would recommend Keene (I consider it to teach good CL style), but it isnt exactly what you are looking for (it just teaches you not to make a graham-mess of everything). I think Joe Marshall has posted a few articles on CLL tho that might be educational for large projects, but otherwise I dont know. :/ 15:51:56 second joe marshall 15:52:15 p_l: yeah, it's unfortunate but true 15:52:42 hypno: http://www.amazon.com/Object-Oriented-Programming-Common-Lisp-Programmers/dp/0201175894 ? 15:52:44 minion: PAIP 15:52:44 PAIP: Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming: Case Studies in Common Lisp by Peter Norvig. http://www.cliki.net/PAIP 15:52:58 stassats: yeah, i've read that 15:53:15 did it teach you to design large programs? 15:53:40 stassats: no, not particularly; it seemed to be more about solving particular problems 15:53:40 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 15:54:03 also, there's xach's blog post on how to evolve a small project into a large project 15:54:18 which would be the most sensible place to start a growing project anyway (: 15:54:21 by writing more code? 15:54:29 by starting small (: 15:54:32 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-56-254.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:54:38 RyanT5000: yeah. as it says, it is an introduction to CLOS and a great one at that and helps with application design a lot imo, but it's not exactly what you are looking for. 15:54:46 antifuchs: yeah, that makes sense 15:55:09 i'm actually as interested in the meta-level of this question as i am in the answer itself 15:55:20 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-56-254.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:55:49 which is to say, i'm interested in the differences between OOP (i.e.: mainstream) and FP literature 15:55:59 RyanT5000: i you offer cookies, milk, cash, virgins, what-have-you, maybe the ITA-guys in here may talk a little about large stuff in CL tho. 15:56:26 ah right 15:56:39 they do a lot of enterprise stuff - airline ticketing? 15:56:46 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:56:49 they're in Boston, i think; i met some of them over at MIT one time 15:57:31 any idea where that xach blog post is? 15:57:47 i haven't had any luck finding it on google yet 15:58:09 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:58:30 what are you doing that requires large scale stuff in CL anyway? 15:59:00 emma [~em@user-0ccemf4.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 15:59:00 homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-56-254.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:59:03 hypno: i run a company making a video game in Haskell 15:59:03 -!- emma [~em@user-0ccemf4.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Changing host] 15:59:03 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 15:59:13 but there's even less literature in the Haskell world on this sort of stuff 15:59:14 RyanT5000: http://xach.livejournal.com/130040.html 15:59:37 afaik, most cl shops make do with very few programmers. like netfonds, they are what, 4-5 people?, running an entire trading bank for crying out loud. 16:00:02 hypno: yeah; that's about what we have now 16:00:21 i don't know, i'm learning how to write large programs by writing them, without any literature 16:01:07 the question is really not so much "how to deal with large programs" as "how to parallelize programming across as many programmers as possible" 16:01:15 which has a lot to do with minimizing dependencise 16:01:18 *dependencies 16:01:31 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 16:02:08 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 16:02:19 anyway, it's a hard problem, and i'm just trying to find non-OOP perspectives on it 16:03:03 -!- xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@116.227.199.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:03:32 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:04:08 well, CL isn't especially non-OOP, really... 16:04:18 How about starting small, and scaling development up slowly, fixing dependency problems as they arise? 16:04:45 nyef: indeed :) it's the details that are trickier 16:05:50 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 16:06:02 Possibly also giving some serious thought to what constitutes source-compatibility and fasl-compatibility in lisp, and how to build modules that can be built in parallel in separate compiler instances and later combined during fasloading. 16:06:29 nyef: what's fasl-compatibility? 16:07:01 Being able to re-use the same compiled FASLs even after having altered code that said files depend on. 16:07:09 Basically, binary compatability. 16:07:27 right, ok 16:07:43 ... And one of these days I'm going to figure out how to fix that persistent mis-spelling of compatibility. 16:07:47 ime, most stuff that applies to any other language will work for CL. what is extremly important tho is that you do not go down the "schemish/graham"-school of programming. that beeing mostly functional programming with obscure naming. successful common lisp programming begins with using and approciating as much as possible that already exists in the language. if you go down the other route you will end up with a mess similiar to perl, something i've painf 16:08:42 Successful common lisp programming begins with using and appreciating long identifier names and prose comments, as well. 16:09:04 yeah; i think that's true in pretty much all languages 16:09:40 of course. i would also say that it includes using the implementation specific extensions and so forth. 16:09:46 are you planning on starting from the ground up or do you already have some cl code? 16:09:49 (nyef: for the record, my company and I mostly use Haskell, but I'm asking here because CL is a language with much more history) 16:10:03 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-56-254.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:10:04 Mostly functional programming I grant you, but obscure naming? 16:10:15 RyanT5000: the using long identifier name thing certainly isn't true of all languages :) 16:10:41 pmd: i'm trying to figure out, in general, how languages outside the mainstream approach this sort of thing 16:10:42 (C reserves the right to totally ignore anything beyond the first, I think, 7 characters) 16:10:52 (mainstream = C, Java, C++, C#, python, etc.) 16:11:01 rsynnott: lol 16:11:14 yeah, those kinds of restrictions are amusing 16:12:09 in mainstream languages, you have all kinds of books like Design Patterns which attempt to teach "programming in the large" 16:12:13 RyanT5000: i'd say it's about the same, with the right tools (eg. components or something similar with nyef's binary compability, version control, release planning, development cycles, testing, etc) 16:12:33 the fact that i'm asking here, i think, makes it clear that i don't think those books adequately answer the question 16:13:08 but it's an interesting problem, and i'm a bit surprised at the relative dearth of literature, even given that "non-mainstream" automatically means you'll have less literature 16:13:46 ok, there might not exist a book that tells you "use asdf this way and that way" (replace asdf with some other tool) 16:14:03 but you surely can find lots of stuff in common-lisp.net and cliki 16:14:14 and, of course, ask here 16:14:18 right 16:14:24 rsynnott: it's actually 31 chars for external identifiers, and 63 chars for internal identifiers 16:14:32 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-119-221.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 16:14:33 at least according to C99 16:14:45 adeht: yep; it was made saner in C99 16:15:06 in any case, very few C compilers _actually_ ignored the extra characters 16:15:35 UPDATE-INSTANCE-FOR-DIFFERENT-CLASS doesn't fit into 31 characters 16:16:18 thank jah we don't have to type it uppercase, because i've thrown away my capslock key. 16:16:35 rsynnott: I think the silliest identifiers are in Pascal, where only first 10, case-insensitive, are recognized 16:16:37 the problem you're stating (big team) doesn't relate that much to the programming language you're using, i believe 16:16:57 pmd: that's why i'm asking here :) 16:17:03 pmd: we actually work in Haskell 16:17:10 Fade: i marked it and did C-x C-u 16:17:11 for instance, if you're making a game, some people of that team are artists, and cl changes nothing or very few on their work 16:17:42 pmd: however, i think some language features have a big impact on architecture 16:17:54 gc and closures are the main ones that come to mind 16:17:55 btw, how many people here have some knowledge of how Android works? I was wondering about lisper opinion on it's component-oriented model (intents + services) 16:18:00 but also static typing, etc. 16:18:08 call/cc, i imagine 16:18:23 CLOS style objects have a large impact on architecture. 16:18:30 stassats: nor do a lot of Objective C identifiers; I assume that these new limits are also mostly ignored :) 16:18:39 Fade: i bet they do; do people use multimethods much? 16:18:48 CLOS programs don't look much like oo programs in langauges like C++ or python or java. 16:18:57 *Xach* uses generic functions a zillion times per day 16:18:59 there have been one or two times that i've wanted multimethods in C#, and that has always been a huge pain 16:19:12 RyanT5000: have your company released any haskell games yet? and, since you are asking here, are you considering a switch to cl (in which case: what is the problem with haskell?)? 16:19:23 lnostdal [~quassel@56.84-48-233.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 16:19:25 inasmuch as any lisp feature can be used 'much' considering the lisp census, yes. :) 16:19:32 hypno: no, we haven't released yet, though we're close 16:19:42 well, CLOS doesn't subscribe to B&D school of OOP that C++/Java does (Python is slightly less B&D in that area). 16:20:07 i'm not especially considering a switch to CL, but I am considering getting more involved in the Haskell compiler (GHC)'s development 16:20:13 and potentially adding CL-inspired features 16:20:17 adeht, rsynnott: However, it's an error in C99 for a program to contain two different identifiers that are the same within the first 31/63 characters and assume they are the same. 16:20:56 in particular, i'm thinking about making metaprogramming feature more prominently in our codebase 16:21:01 and in CL you can't have arrays larger than 1024! 16:21:05 -!- lnostdal-android [~androirc@56.84-48-233.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:21:12 -!- lnostdal_ [~quassel@56.84-48-233.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:21:22 jcowan: by "error ... for a program" do you mean it results in undefined behavior? 16:21:39 or something that the compiler is meant to disallow? 16:21:52 1024, no factorial 16:21:56 stassats: arrays bigger than 1024? did you mean 1024 dimensions? 16:22:03 Fade: that's cool; what other ways do you think CLOS impacts architecture? 16:22:14 clhs array-total-size-limit 16:22:19 damn! 16:23:12 A positive fixnum, the exact magnitude of which is implementation-dependent, but which is not less than 1024. 16:23:19 stassats: sbcl happily builds arrays larger than 1024 16:23:25 I don't have the Standard to hand, only the Rationale, but it looks like a compiler MAY treat the external identifiers a2345678901234578901234789012345 and a2345678901234567890123456789012346 as the same or different, and no program can rely on either choice. 16:23:28 Fade: an allowable extension. :) 16:23:46 Does anyone know why such a limit exists at all? 16:23:49 sounds to me more like "FFS, make it support arrays at least of this size" 16:24:04 jcowan: oh, lovely 16:24:16 jcowan: so that you can handle it 16:24:32 well, the single biggest way that CLOS changed my sense of OO programming was in coming to grips with the idea that the class was just the noun and the generic function was the prime mover. 16:24:50 *rtoym* doesn't know of any lisp which can't build arrays larger than 1024. 16:24:53 "Execution in the Kingdom of Nouns" is a good essay on the subject. 16:24:54 jcowan: limitations in certain compilers. It's actually more of "force the compilers to increase the size" than "limiting identifier length" 16:24:55 that in itself is a huge cognitive dissonance when you're coming from the C++/Pythonic world. 16:24:55 Fade: which isn't a CLOS-only concept by any means 16:25:16 Fade: yeah, that is a big difference 16:25:18 rsynnott: no, true, but CLOS was definitely the vector for the pathogen in my case. :) 16:25:20 rtoym: wait till my Restrictive Common Lisp comes out! 16:25:26 jcowan: these limits exist to restrict implementations to somewhat workable conditions 16:25:26 Jabberwockey [~Jens@port-9421.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 16:25:38 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 16:25:50 I meant the array-total-size-limit. Why are implementations allowed to set a limit on the maximum size of an array, or its maximum rank for that matter? 16:25:52 stassats: Heh. B&D Lisp. 16:25:55 (Other than size-of-memory limits) 16:25:59 rtoym: picolisp can't. it doesnt have arrays;-) 16:26:06 bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 16:26:44 jcowan: it's actually the other way around. By ensuring the limit can't be lower than N, you're making sure that the code can always assume certain sizes to be available, no matter the platform 16:26:54 jcowan: For a very simple reason: Some of the more common implementation strategies involve a fixed-width field in an array header to specify its size. 16:27:28 and there are addressing restrictions 16:27:28 jcowan: And don't forget the existence of MOST-POSITIVE-BIGNUM. 16:27:32 Well, okay. Yet bignums use the same strategy, and there is no limit on the minimum size of the maximum bignum. 16:27:57 attila_lendvai: hi 16:28:10 hlavaty: hi 16:28:22 though with bit-arrays you can quickly run out of fixnum range 16:28:30 jcowan: compromises, I guess 16:28:32 jcowan: Technically, there isn't supposed to -be- an upper limit on the representable integers. 16:28:37 it seems quite silent on the hungarian front, holiday time? 16:29:10 RyanT5000: anyhow, for me, once I grokked that, it allowed me to build up much more natural taxonomies. I used to hate shoehorning methods in classes where they only obliquely belonged. 16:29:13 i have a question about perec 16:29:35 Fade: yeah, i remember that shoehorning process well from my C++ days 16:31:00 C++ = "Let's pretend we're OO!" 16:31:01 hlavaty: yeah. that and other things re private life (in my case). i've not had a longer holiday for a long time and now i'm holding back my hacking time 16:31:09 attila_lendvai: why there is "swap limit and projection" in %optimize-plan for limit-operation? 16:31:19 exporting most-positive-bignum to the user might be a bit heavy on the image size as well 16:31:28 Fade: what do you think about pure-functional (i.e.: effectless) programming in the CLOS context? does it seem more natural or useful than it does in mainstream languages? 16:31:42 well, you can encode it somehow 16:31:54 hlavaty: uhh, i lost you there quickly... :) you should try to aski it on the perec list, and then Tomi will answer. 16:32:09 I think you can do whatever you want in lisp, but i'm not personally a B&D sort of functional dude. 16:32:17 haha 16:32:40 I have the notion that haskell was prototyped in lisp, although I'm not sure that's true. 16:32:45 well, i've definitely had times when Haskell's strict constraints have been a pain 16:32:50 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:33:38 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 16:33:49 attila_lendvai: so perec was written by tomi originally? 16:33:52 it's nice to have a fancy theorem solver around, though 16:33:56 -!- zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:34:00 hlavaty: the query compiler part 16:34:08 Fade: it was, afaik one can hound some early source on CMU AI ftp 16:34:34 nyef: In libgmp the maximum storage of an integer is 2^31 bigits, where a bigit is either 32 or 64 bits depending on the memory model. There are now machines that can have more than 32 GiB of main memory. 16:34:47 hlavaty: i was only involved in perec on the brainstorming level, and in bug fixing. 16:35:11 attila_lendvai: ok thanks! 16:35:54 RyanT5000: I don't know.. when I first checked out Haskell, I though "How do they do I/O??" 16:36:05 and then I found out about monads, and they still don't really make a lot of sense to me. 16:36:08 :) 16:36:16 By the Miracle at the End, whereby all I/O commands are executed. 16:36:34 This corresponds to the Miracle at the Beginning in (conventional) eager languages, whereby the main program is invoked without an invoker. 16:36:40 "Here, have some (composable) side effects!" 16:37:08 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 16:37:27 Fade: the main thing about monads is that you make statements first-class and then have a function that takes the place of "semicolon" 16:37:31 execve [~execve@ppp-81-25-57-185.ultranet.ru] has joined #lisp 16:37:36 (really, "semicolon-with-variable-binding") 16:38:03 Fade: it never did to me either, and yet i was at lectures given by john huges! 16:38:27 well, it had the feeling of "this has got to be magic fairy dust..." 16:38:41 Fade: haha yeah; i certainly don't understand how they manage to make it *efficient* 16:38:52 but a lot of people much smarter than me swear by the technique. :) 16:39:01 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-211-15.wbs.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:39:01 -!- jcowan [~John@p-68-237-140-231.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:39:57 I think minimising side effects is a good idea. 16:40:16 I just don't want to jump through hoops because the doctrine says so. 16:40:18 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:40:40 i mean... if you're at a four way stop light in the middle of the desert at 4am, do you wait until the light turns green? 16:40:43 :) 16:40:50 i think the answer is "That depends." 16:40:52 Fade: yeah; a lot of the value just comes from having an automated way of *knowing* whether something has side-effects 16:40:54 haha yeah 16:41:16 at the end of the day, a type system is just a static analysis tool 16:41:49 cl has a very thorough type system. it gives everything a type. ;) 16:41:53 haha 16:42:01 -!- benny [~user@i577A1753.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:42:47 cl is one of those languages that delights in dishing out rope. if you hang yourself, well, you hang yourself. 16:43:53 benny [~user@i577A2C27.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:44:20 yeah; haskell makes you submit a hanging proposal, which is then evaluated by the health and safety committee 16:44:42 sometimes you just have to commit sepuku. 16:44:43 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 16:45:40 -!- vng [~vng@1.139.39-62.rev.gaoland.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:47:05 yeah, CL loves to dish out rope to the amounts that you can get it to critical mass and not only hang yourself, but nuke yourself 16:47:53 -!- tfb [~tfb@94.197.12.241.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:48:03 -!- hlavaty [~user@77-22-104-162-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:50:25 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:51:11 Pepe_ [~ppjet@bouah.net] has joined #lisp 16:53:11 *sykopomp* finally ordered a copy of Keene's book. 16:56:48 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-107.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:59:07 -!- zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:59:12 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:00:57 ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@87.114.57.43.plusnet.thn-ag3.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 17:02:38 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:03:17 -!- ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@87.114.57.43.plusnet.thn-ag3.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:03:24 ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@87.114.57.43.plusnet.thn-ag3.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:46 -!- ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@87.114.57.43.plusnet.thn-ag3.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:03:53 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.114.207.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:04:28 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.114.57.43.plusnet.thn-ag3.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 17:04:35 qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has joined #lisp 17:08:14 MetalDust_Clouds [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:32 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:08:49 That's a great book for learning CLOS. (Not that I've ever used any other book to compare against.) 17:10:05 AMOP strikes me as pretty good for that, too. 17:10:06 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 17:10:23 but Keene seems like it may be a nicer text :) 17:10:40 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@89.135.200.180] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:11:06 Keene seems to me to be the better -introductory- text than AMOP. 17:11:17 AMOP is not an introductory text. 17:12:44 I never said so! But 'learning CLOS' is an ongoing thing. :) 17:13:12 and AMOP is particularly interesting when it comes to designing a fairly significant CLOS-based application. 17:13:53 yup 17:14:17 zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has joined #lisp 17:14:47 moah [~gnu@188.109.149.189] has joined #lisp 17:15:42 seangrove [~user@70-36-236-168.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 17:18:21 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 17:22:41 drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:25:08 *p_l* just noticed that the greatest diskspace-eater is his 0.8G chunk of lisp code 17:26:52 I wonder how much of it is just fasls 17:27:15 hmm, just ~200MB 17:28:36 -!- jdz [~jdz@host17-12-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:28:49 -!- Borbus [borbus@borbus.kicks-ass.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:29:22 Borbus [borbus@borbus.kicks-ass.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:48 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-154-22.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 17:30:20 kclifton [~kclifton@s198-166-45-245.ab.hsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 17:34:08 -!- RyanT5000 [~ryan@pool-72-93-111-149.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 17:34:18 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-93-205-42.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:35:13 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-21-181.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:36:37 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.17.188.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 17:36:41 -!- schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:36:44 schmrkc [~marcus@c83-254-197-212.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 17:36:44 -!- schmrkc [~marcus@c83-254-197-212.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Changing host] 17:36:44 schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 17:37:27 -!- kclifton [~kclifton@s198-166-45-245.ab.hsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: kclifton] 17:39:11 milanj [~milanj_@79-101-181-100.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 17:39:11 -!- postamar [~postamar@x-132-204-240-127.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:39:29 postamar [~postamar@x-132-204-240-127.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 17:40:44 rich_holygoat [~rnewman@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has joined #lisp 17:43:17 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host213-180-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:44:36 -!- amontez [~user@unaffiliated/amontez] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:44:44 kclifton [~kclifton@s198-166-45-245.ab.hsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 17:45:36 hmm. *.b9.com seems to be in trouble? 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18:53:07 hmmm, i didn'get my ansi-cl and usb-stick yet... 18:54:03 daniel_ [~daniel@p5B326F4A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:54:57 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 18:57:43 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082BB28.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:59:19 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-76-118-76-200.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:01:29 bandu [~coyotama@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 19:01:49 urandom__ [~user@p548A419A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:08 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 19:06:22 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:07:26 -!- postamar [~postamar@x-132-204-240-127.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [Quit: postamar] 19:09:00 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:12:34 -!- moah [~gnu@188.109.149.189] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:13:03 okflo [~user@93-82-151-54.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 19:13:17 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-87-124.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 19:14:26 -!- bandu [~coyotama@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:17:42 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:17:51 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has left #lisp 19:19:09 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:19:54 tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has joined #lisp 19:21:21 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 19:21:38 -!- aerique [~euqirea@aerique.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:23:00 aerique [~euqirea@aerique.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 19:26:18 -!- execve [~execve@ppp-81-25-57-185.ultranet.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:26:47 s1gma_ [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 19:29:25 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 19:29:57 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 19:30:05 -!- pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-49-182.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:32:01 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@unaffiliated/stattrav] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:35:36 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 19:36:30 pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-49-182.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:37:06 -!- MetalDust_Clouds is now known as MetalDust 19:43:49 Nshag [~none@AClermont-Ferrand-551-1-124-45.w92-150.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:46:53 netytan [~netytan@85.211.11.221] has joined #lisp 19:54:56 dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 19:54:56 -!- atomx [~user@93.112.81.240] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:55:48 atomx [~user@93.112.81.240] has joined #lisp 19:57:03 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 20:00:18 -!- atomx [~user@93.112.81.240] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:00:34 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:01:19 root` [~user@93.112.81.240] has joined #lisp 20:01:28 is there a way to use cffi:*foreign-library-directories* with a relative path ? 20:01:42 -!- root` [~user@93.112.81.240] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:02:06 the documentation use absolute pathes, but I'd like a path relative to my project root, or at least relative to the file specifying the path 20:02:21 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.114.57.43.plusnet.thn-ag3.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:02:56 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:03:04 atomx [~user@93.112.81.240] has joined #lisp 20:04:09 -!- tvaalen_ [~r@terminal.se] has left #lisp 20:04:54 tvaalen [~r@unaffiliated/tvaal] has joined #lisp 20:05:15 -!- kclifton [~kclifton@s198-166-45-245.ab.hsia.telus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:05:32 kclifton [~kclifton@s198-166-45-245.ab.hsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:59 galdor: perhaps you could use (asdf:system-relative-pathname ...) 20:07:04 -!- kclifton [~kclifton@s198-166-45-245.ab.hsia.telus.net] has left #lisp 20:07:18 kclifton [~kclifton@s198-166-45-245.ab.hsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 20:08:01 church numerals are weird.... 20:08:03 lol 20:08:23 Xach: it works perfectly, thank you 20:08:37 any downside to the use of an asdf function in my program ? 20:08:46 I package with asdf, so I don't think it's a problem 20:08:51 *Xach* can't think of one 20:09:00 well this is great :) 20:14:29 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 20:16:04 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 20:19:19 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.17.188.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 20:20:57 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.114.57.43.plusnet.thn-ag3.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:15 galdor: is it an *exported* asdf function? 20:23:48 execve [~execve@ppp-81-25-57-185.ultranet.ru] has joined #lisp 20:24:01 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:24:53 yep 20:25:06 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 20:25:18 ak70 [~ak70@80.77.204.157] has joined #lisp 20:25:37 then no problem. 20:25:52 no problem at all, unless it's appendf or aif 20:26:17 yeah, don't use either appendf or aif, that are not exported in HEAD anymore. 20:26:34 Fare: your sentence that had something like "Exporting aif without exporting it won't work anyway" confused me greatly for several minutes. 20:26:37 Xach: are you testing with asdf HEAD ? 20:26:49 Fare: I'm trying to. 20:26:51 Xach: lol 20:27:43 I'm trying to get an ec2-powered build system working, and that will make it easier for me to test more things. 20:27:58 Xach: what do you think of desire? 20:28:11 looks like there's a lot of redundancy between your two projects 20:28:21 I couldn't tell what desire was for. 20:28:40 about the same as quicklisp, I believe 20:28:56 getting, building and testing lots of lisp components 20:29:19 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A419A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:29:22 providing a standardized system of mirrors for libraries 20:30:41 Ok. 20:30:58 Well, I found it a little too confusing to care very much about it. I hope it improves. 20:31:25 ok 20:33:56 Everyone seems to be concerned about redundancy for my project. 20:34:01 I find it a little annoying. 20:34:06 heeh 20:34:09 *heheh 20:34:20 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 20:34:31 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:35:29 I'm glad you have something that works 20:35:29 why are packages referenced using #: in asdf? 20:35:35 and the energy to keep it working 20:36:02 derrida: in some situations, symbols are used only to get a string from them (the string that is their name) 20:36:03 not just asdf 20:36:12 derrida: #:foo is a syntax for a particular kind of symbol. 20:36:42 hmm, specifically, what kind? 20:36:50 derrida: an uninterned symbol 20:37:02 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-56-254.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:37:06 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-56-254.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:38:27 but, instead of returning a string, the repl throws an undefined symbol error for #:foo 20:38:30 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-88-117.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 20:39:09 why should it return a string? 20:40:15 derrida: that's right. that's why they're used plain like that in places where the normal evaluation rules don't apply. 20:40:15 like in asdf:defsystem or cl:defpackage 20:40:15 those are macros. 20:42:02 -!- jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-7-68-199.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jajcloz] 20:42:03 -!- legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-42-143.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:42:04 ok, that makes a bit more sense, someone asked me if #:foo was how to refer to a package symbol and i realized i actually had no idea why we do that :P 20:43:27 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-18-88.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 20:45:33 *sykopomp* uses #:foo for defpackage because he likes how SLIME colors it, better. 20:45:55 If you're politically so inclined, using capital strings will make modern mode users cry out loud 20:46:20 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:46:27 I use :foo for package names, but #: for symbols in the export list etc :-) 20:48:10 weirdo [sthalik@sthalik.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 20:49:31 derrida: evaluating #:foo yields an error the same way foo probably does. 20:49:39 derrida: try '#:foo 20:50:00 in principle, uninterned symbols could be a constant like keywords 20:50:07 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:50:13 the latest sbcl-1.0.42 do not build on osx/tiger/x86 with threads. it errors out in the thread code. is tiger not supported anymore? 20:51:08 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 20:52:26 Can a :depends-on in a (:file) clause depend on other systems? 20:52:56 hopefully not 20:53:05 I think not 20:53:09 (therefore I am not) 20:53:24 bummer 20:53:27 not i think, therefore i am 20:53:32 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:54:17 ephcon [~ephcon@fredri.cc] has joined #lisp 20:55:08 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:56:37 -!- aerique [~euqirea@aerique.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 20:56:46 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@fredri.cc] has quit [Client Quit] 20:56:54 -!- s1gma_ [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: irl ragequit] 20:58:13 ... "Cogito cogito, ergo cogito sum"? 21:04:09 luis: wouldnt that just be a symobold named #:foo 21:05:47 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:07:36 -!- easyE [zdC1tHjw64@panix3.panix.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 21:08:31 -!- okflo [~user@93-82-151-54.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has left #lisp 21:09:25 -!- tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has quit [Quit: sleeping] 21:12:07 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:12:13 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:13:30 tcr: using xcvb, you can do it. 21:14:02 derrida: it's like bar:foo. The # in #:foo denotes "no package" 21:14:24 (symbol-name '#:foo) => "FOO" 21:15:24 roygbiv [~None@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has joined #lisp 21:16:31 derrida: and (symbol-package '#:foo) => NIL 21:16:49 tcleval [~funnyguy@187.58.91.79] has joined #lisp 21:17:21 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 21:17:38 hi.. my slime instalation doesnt recognize C-c C-q to complete ) what am I doing wrong? slime executes and all, but C-c C-q doesnt work :-( 21:18:32 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-66-82.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:19:32 I think we might have got rid of that 21:19:47 does C-c work? 21:19:57 kanen [~kanen@rrcs-74-62-165-123.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:20:07 try C-c C-] 21:20:09 yeah? I dont see M-x slime-insert-balanced-comments etheir 21:20:26 tcleval: you should be using paredit anyway. :) 21:20:29 -!- kanen [~kanen@rrcs-74-62-165-123.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:20:58 tcr not working.. I ve got cvs today 21:21:08 what is paredit luis? 21:21:22 minion: tell tcleval about paredit 21:21:22 tcleval: please look at paredit: a set of Emacs commands, with a minor mode for convenient access to them, for editing balanced S-expressions and a number of higher-level operations on S-expressions, at ; see also the #paredit channel 21:22:43 svk_ [~kaw@svk.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 21:23:43 -!- fualo_ [~fualo@markov.genomecenter.ucdavis.edu] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:32:45 -!- red1ynx [~Dzmitry@91.149.140.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:33:19 syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-217-76.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:33:48 -!- DaDa` [~user@20.94.63.81.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:35:51 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-207-114.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:37:25 -!- ak70 [~ak70@80.77.204.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:37:28 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:37:42 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@port-9421.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:38:54 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:40:29 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-87-124.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:41:48 s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-211-202.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:39 -!- tcleval [~funnyguy@187.58.91.79] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:45:09 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-119-127.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 21:46:10 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-066.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:46:18 sugarshark [~ole@p4FDA8477.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:46:54 srolls [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 21:47:02 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-095-117.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 21:47:12 -!- pdo_ [~pdo@dyn-62-56-49-182.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo_] 21:51:21 -!- slash_1 [~unknown@p5DD1D6F7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:52:08 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-217-76.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:52:20 syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-217-76.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:52:35 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-154-22.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:54:00 -!- qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has left #lisp 21:54:26 yrgd [~yrgd@c-98-235-44-106.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:57:38 -!- claint [~user@88.243.129.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:02:13 -!- yrgd [~yrgd@c-98-235-44-106.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:04:33 Edward [~ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-15-44.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:04:46 Demosthenes [~demo@wsip-70-167-81-102.mc.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:06:17 fusss [~fusss@cpe-184-59-202-37.new.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:09:43 mgr [~mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 22:10:20 p_l: how is the Android hacking coming? 22:13:24 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:13:52 -!- netytan [~netytan@85.211.11.221] has quit [Quit: netytan] 22:15:04 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 22:15:32 dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 22:16:22 -!- roygbiv [~None@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has left #lisp 22:17:08 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 22:17:31 netytan [~netytan@85.211.11.221] has joined #lisp 22:17:50 -!- netytan [~netytan@85.211.11.221] has quit [Client Quit] 22:18:55 bandu [~coyotama@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 22:26:51 -!- milanj [~milanj_@79-101-181-100.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:27:26 -!- sugarshark [~ole@p4FDA8477.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: bed time] 22:29:06 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@wsip-70-167-81-102.mc.at.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:32:00 Android Liberation Front: http://imgur.com/hHSCx.png 22:32:27 we're getting there .. 22:32:51 let's hope Google hasn't messed up Java reflection, since ABCL depends on it mightly 22:33:55 must remember to load Lisp from a background thread to avoid the impatient Android 5-second killer :-/ 22:34:29 fusss: !!! 22:34:41 hey sykopomp 22:35:02 fusss: that's somewhat exciting! 22:35:28 will be, now it's still nascent 22:35:51 how do you expect it to perform once it actually works? :) 22:36:39 i have no clue; just thought messing with abcl would be fun 22:36:55 it's definitely neat :) 22:37:12 cheers! 22:38:30 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl14-69-141.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 22:40:14 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:43:30 BladeRunner [~bladerunn@24-107-123-168.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:45:38 -!- tsuru [~charlie@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:46:55 rvirding [~chatzilla@h19n4c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 22:50:22 -!- rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-88-117.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:50:24 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:50:38 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-93-88-117.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 22:52:05 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-217-76.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:52:20 syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-217-76.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:52:53 -!- bandu is now known as coyo 22:53:13 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:55:14 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:55:17 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:57:38 Android must use a very aggressive tree-shaker or something 22:58:07 import org.armedbear.lisp.*; doesn't work, but importing specific exports of the package does 22:59:36 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 23:00:22 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:06:29 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:19:57 yrgd [~yrgd@c-98-235-44-106.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:20:27 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.114.57.43.plusnet.thn-ag3.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:21:03 -!- fusss [~fusss@cpe-184-59-202-37.new.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 23:24:04 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-095-117.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:24:45 -!- Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Planned down time ^^] 23:25:20 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h19n4c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 23:26:20 fusss [~fusss@cpe-184-59-202-37.new.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:29:18 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:31:02 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:32:24 -!- Nshag [~none@AClermont-Ferrand-551-1-124-45.w92-150.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 23:36:40 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:37:49 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 23:42:59 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:45:32 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:50:30 ldunn [~user@d110-32-128-133.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:50:35 -!- ldunn [~user@d110-32-128-133.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:50:46 qbomb [~qbomb@pool3-48.teleclipse.net] has joined #lisp 23:52:02 ldunn [~user@d110-32-128-133.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:53:04 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:53:41 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:54:45 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:55:10 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:58:00 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:58:33 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-48-164.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]