00:00:07 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p5DD1DDFA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:02:43 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 00:03:43 -!- zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:04:54 schoppenhauer1 [~christoph@p5B0BD7E7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:05:20 -!- schoppenhauer1 [~christoph@p5B0BD7E7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:05:49 Nshag [~none@AClermont-Ferrand-551-1-56-42.w86-206.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 00:06:59 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: A subtle thought that is in error may yet give rise to fruitful inquiry that can establish truths of great value.] 00:08:14 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:09:03 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 00:09:48 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483C458.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:13:46 jyper_noscreen [~quassel@c-24-22-21-120.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:14:47 ikki [~ikki@189.139.98.146] has joined #lisp 00:17:47 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 00:19:26 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-066.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:19:26 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:21:29 aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 00:22:20 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@81-233-246-97-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:25:39 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:26:40 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 00:28:29 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.98.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:28:36 Anarch [~olaf@c-67-171-37-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:31:03 OliverUv_ [~gandhi@34.81-167-250.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 00:33:29 ikki [~ikki@189.139.98.146] has joined #lisp 00:34:21 -!- OliverUv [~gandhi@34.81-167-250.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:40:03 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 00:40:32 fualo [~fualo@markov.genomecenter.ucdavis.edu] has joined #lisp 00:41:27 when cons an atom to nil, is the result an atom with type cons? (in general, not with regards to a problem) 00:42:08 atom is defined as not a cons 00:42:08 fualo: CONS is a function that returns an object of type CONS 00:46:53 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.98.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:47:03 Xach: can an atom have value CONS? 00:47:24 your question doesn't make sense 00:47:41 beach` [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-37-229.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 00:47:53 I ask because lithp (simple toy implementation) has Atom with value union with Cons http://code.google.com/p/lithp/source/browse/trunk/cons.h 00:48:43 this channel is about Common Lisp 00:50:13 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-109-112.w92-156.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:51:59 ikki [~ikki@189.139.98.146] has joined #lisp 00:53:26 tcr [~tcr@81-233-246-97-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 00:56:39 symbole [~user@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:57:50 soverton [~soverton@adsl-95-168-252.jan.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 00:58:59 I have a question about clx. How do I prevent a window from being closed by the window manager without my program taking some action first? 00:59:07 -!- dfkjjkfd [~paulh@54-11-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:00:54 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:02:18 The kicker is, I used to know the answer, but after months of not using CLX, I lost it and can't find it again 01:06:03 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.98.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:06:23 does CLX support the "modal" concept? 01:06:52 thath might be overkill though 01:08:41 clx is probably too low-level for that. 01:09:41 ikki [~ikki@189.139.98.146] has joined #lisp 01:09:48 soverton: everyone X app does it, but I can't remember either. 01:10:01 TeMPOraL` [~user@apn-77-113-180-125.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl] has joined #lisp 01:11:32 Xach, there should be a clx FAQ and that should be near the top of the list :) 01:12:11 something to do with wm_kill 01:12:59 was it something like creating a new event type to catch the window being killed? 01:13:50 I do remember that the answer was kind of obscure and not in the manual 01:14:18 -!- Jubb [~ghost@24-151-75-175.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:15:04 rbarraud [~rbarraud@118-92-11-130.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 01:16:20 -!- TeMPOraL` [~user@apn-77-113-180-125.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:17:41 wait, maybe it was declare_event. lemme see... 01:19:25 peterhil` [~peterhil@a91-153-120-132.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 01:21:01 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.98.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:23:09 -!- tcr [~tcr@81-233-246-97-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:24:28 ikki [~ikki@189.139.98.146] has joined #lisp 01:30:37 Well, I know I'm barking up several of the same wrong trees as the last time I hit this snag. 01:31:33 sabalaba [~sabalaba@c-76-118-76-200.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:32:46 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:40:23 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.98.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:42:25 zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 01:42:55 -!- LiamH [~nobody@pool-72-75-117-208.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:43:32 ikki [~ikki@189.247.81.76] has joined #lisp 01:45:02 -!- Nshag [~none@AClermont-Ferrand-551-1-56-42.w86-206.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:47:43 bandu [~coyotama@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 01:47:49 e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 01:48:24 Xach: I'm half way there. (setf (xlib:wm-protocols window) '(:wm_delete_window)) 01:49:15 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 01:49:25 woo 01:50:08 xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@116.227.199.58] has joined #lisp 01:52:35 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.166.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:54:35 xach: thanks 01:54:45 -!- soverton [~soverton@adsl-95-168-252.jan.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 01:55:07 *Xach* has been trying to use xlib more 01:55:12 clx, rather 01:56:20 Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has joined #lisp 01:57:12 abugosh [~Adium@static-71-179-170-30.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:00:20 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.81.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:00:38 sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:00:54 [sbahra] [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:02:29 -!- [sbahra] [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:04:53 -!- abugosh [~Adium@static-71-179-170-30.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:06:29 ikki [~ikki@189.247.125.244] has joined #lisp 02:13:32 metasyntax [~taylor@72.86.89.174] has joined #lisp 02:17:30 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-127-82.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 02:19:35 Blkt` [~user@net-188-152-128-15.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #lisp 02:19:50 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.125.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:23:08 -!- Blkt [~user@net-93-146-154-84.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:23:57 EngiNerd [~quassel@cpe-76-179-25-166.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:24:21 Hey y'all, newbie at Lisp here, having a bit of trouble understanding mapcar 02:25:29 ikki [~ikki@189.247.125.244] has joined #lisp 02:26:02 I have a funtion defined as (mapcar #'(lambda (x) (+ x 1)) arg0) 02:26:04 albino [~albino@69.12.222.214] has joined #lisp 02:26:11 which works 02:26:25 I have another function that just performs the + x 1 operation 02:26:34 but I can't figure out how to incorporate it here 02:29:12 Just replace the (lambda ...) with the name of your function, e.g., (mapcar #'my-func arg0) 02:29:34 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.58.45] has joined #lisp 02:29:36 Oh, just the name? 02:29:44 I had (mapcar #'(add1 (x)) arg0) 02:30:05 Huh, okay 02:30:20 I still can't figure out when I need parentheses in this XD 02:30:58 krzysz00 [~krzysz00@pool-71-252-233-89.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:31:16 hello. 02:34:13 -!- bandu is now known as coyo 02:37:39 -!- krzysz00 [~krzysz00@pool-71-252-233-89.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 02:38:26 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.125.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:40:30 ikki [~ikki@189.247.125.244] has joined #lisp 02:41:23 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:44:27 Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has joined #lisp 02:45:32 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.25.244] has joined #lisp 02:46:43 EngiNerd: the #' form takes either a name or a lambda spec 02:47:04 Got it 02:47:13 Is there a way to do it without the #'? 02:47:16 also, you can use (lambda (x) (+ x 1)) without the #', which is the same thing, but some don't like that shortcut out of clarity's sake 02:47:17 loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 02:47:38 (defun a ...), then #'a dereferences the function behind symbol a 02:47:41 -!- xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@116.227.199.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:47:53 however (defvar a (lambda ...)), then a's normal value holds the function 02:48:32 Okay 02:48:36 in the 2nd case, you don't use #' 02:48:44 behind every symbol is a value, a function, and some other things 02:48:55 using a variable plain pulls up its value, using #'varname pulls up its function 02:48:55 I read in the textbook for this class that lambda is no longer necessary at all, I sense that's not true 02:49:05 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-53.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:49:07 the #' is not necessary before (lambda ...) 02:49:13 Okay 02:49:16 as built-in macro magic takes care of you 02:49:20 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-53.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:49:40 technically, #'... is just a macro for (function ...) 02:49:54 so (function a) looks up a function by name 02:49:57 good night everyone 02:49:58 (macroexpand '(lambda (x) (* x x))) --> (function (lambda (x) (* x x))) 02:50:09 -!- Blkt` [~user@net-188-152-128-15.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Quit: Error: do not makunbound t please!] 02:50:18 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-162-112.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:50:30 but (function (lambda ...)) doesn't actually "call" the lambda, it sees that literal symbol there and does the right thing to build up an anonymous function 02:50:58 if you call (lambda ...) straight, it expands to (function (lambda ...)) which does the right thing 02:51:06 A bit confusing at first, but it's all orthogonal :) 02:51:42 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-162-112.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:52:30 Okay, I think I understand better :P 02:52:31 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.25.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:52:40 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.58.45] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:52:54 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.58.45] has joined #lisp 02:53:02 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.125.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:54:48 -!- sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:55:35 Is there a function for (list (car arg)) ? 02:57:27 akimbostokes [~user@cpe-173-095-175-246.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:57:49 hi trying to fix an issue with this error "illegal sharp macro character: #\" 02:58:02 http://bitbucket.org/battlemidget/cl-cas/changeset/02d0e5dd2654 ; in the kernel related code read-kernel-ver 02:58:03 EngiNerd: (defun list-car (arg) (list (car arg))), now there is! 02:58:33 it is quitting on #1 in the text 02:58:38 Haha, thanks XD 02:58:38 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:59:44 ikki [~ikki@189.247.125.244] has joined #lisp 03:00:44 How about, is there a function to detect whether something is a list or a single value? 03:00:53 Would just checking null cdr work? 03:00:54 listp/atom 03:01:11 and consp for if it's a non-nil list 03:01:39 a null cdr means that there's nothing _after_ the list node you're looking at 03:01:52 but that doesn't say if the current one is nil itself, or has a (car . nil) 03:02:39 note also that structs, arrays, and any other object is an "atom". It just means "non-list" 03:02:42 Well, the problem is asking to take a list with embedded lists and tighten it into a single straight list 03:02:52 (or non-cons, technically) 03:02:58 hmm maybe i need to escape # somehow 03:03:19 but ... I don't want direct answers, this is a homework problem, after all :P 03:03:22 akimbostokes: you can probably do bad things to the reader table to stop # from being a macro character 03:03:40 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:03:44 akimbostokes: that function read-kernel-var should probably be using read-line and not read. 03:03:46 EngiNerd: build up the output list as you traverse the deep structure 03:04:01 rme: let me try that 03:04:03 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.125.244] has quit [Client Quit] 03:04:42 rme: that worked thanks :D 03:04:43 -!- jyper_noscreen [~quassel@c-24-22-21-120.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:05:15 Ya, probably 03:06:23 Hrm ... hitting the sack for the night, thanks for the help! 03:06:29 -!- EngiNerd [~quassel@cpe-76-179-25-166.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: For the record: :3] 03:06:37 -!- jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:12:00 -!- _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has quit [Quit: irl ragequit] 03:13:18 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:17:11 bhyde [~Adium@c-66-30-201-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:19:12 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 03:20:16 sbcl doesnt' like me http://paste.lisp.org/+2G5K 03:21:31 that is a very sad backtrace. 03:22:37 it's very concise 03:28:26 /msg minion memo for EngiNerd: "Well, the problem is asking to take a list with embedded lists and tighten it 03:28:26 into a single straight list". I'd guess you mean "flatten" it into a simple list. Using the right terminology (or at least the conventionnal terminology) will help when googling. 03:33:18 -!- e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:34:08 beach`` [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-45-163.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 03:36:18 -!- beach` [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-37-229.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:43:59 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:44:58 zc00gii [~zc00gii@thefacepalm.net] has joined #lisp 03:52:35 aceluck [~aceluck@175.144.254.120] has joined #lisp 03:55:27 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.195.166] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 04:02:29 -!- rme [rme@clozure-76DCBA1F.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 04:02:29 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-116-106.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 04:02:36 -!- salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Quit: salva] 04:02:46 ice2 [~manlan_20@113.64.222.254] has joined #lisp 04:06:00 -!- coyo [~coyotama@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Quit: client closed in haste] 04:08:36 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.58.45] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:08:51 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.58.45] has joined #lisp 04:17:23 do i have to defvar any variable i wish to store some form out input to? 04:17:27 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:17:29 b2ldw1n [~k2t0f12d@121.98.185.20] has joined #lisp 04:17:39 form of* 04:19:18 -!- ice2 [~manlan_20@113.64.222.254] has left #lisp 04:22:42 http://paste.lisp.org/+2G5L -- not sure why version is NIL 04:24:26 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-7-235.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:25:36 <_3b> akimbostokes: do you return anything from read-kernel-var? 04:38:20 -!- b2ldw1n is now known as katofiad 04:40:22 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-217-76.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:40:56 Is there a common way to connect to a mysql db in a cl program? 04:41:21 _3b: i guess im not sure how to return from that function 04:44:39 -!- antivigilante [~antivigil@174-26-114-150.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:45:11 <_3b> same as any other function, it returns the results of the last form, with-open-file in this case, which does the same, so returns the result of the DO form 04:45:37 *_3b* doesn't use DO much though, so you will have to read the docs to figure out how to change that, doesn't look right to me as it is though 04:45:53 ok thanks for the help _3b 04:46:08 <_3b> or put something after the DO to return whatever you want that function to return 04:50:38 katofiad: there's a couple. 04:50:49 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:50:53 minion: sql? 04:50:54 sql: SQL (Structured Query Language) is a language for describing queries and updates against a relational database. http://www.cliki.net/sql 04:51:02 _3b: looks like removing DO and just returning from with-open-file worked :) 04:51:32 katofiad: check out the link. 04:52:08 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:56:37 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.58.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:58:00 antivigilante [~antivigil@174-26-114-150.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:05:12 Ralith_ [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 05:05:13 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:11:55 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.199.58] has joined #lisp 05:40:37 sykopomp: thanks (-: 05:46:34 vandemar [holy@2001:470:1f10:56b::4] has joined #lisp 05:46:45 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 06:06:20 -!- zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:18:00 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:18:25 -!- Salamander_ is now known as Salamander 06:18:32 -!- xan_ 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[~Jens@port-6042.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 10:09:08 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 10:10:20 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:13:28 tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has joined #lisp 10:16:30 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 10:16:48 -!- beach`` is now known as beach 10:19:39 Blkt [~user@net-93-146-156-187.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #lisp 10:19:39 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:20:38 good day everyone 10:21:09 urandom__ [~user@p548A5748.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:22:21 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:23:26 -!- CrEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:26:59 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-203-193.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:27:18 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-203-193.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 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is now known as rtra 10:52:23 -!- symbole` [~user@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:54:56 Dilberto [~Dilberto@189.220.22.25.cable.dyn.cableonline.com.mx] has joined #lisp 10:55:38 tcr [~tcr@81-233-246-97-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 10:56:35 is there anyone who knows a bit about genetic algorithms who would review some of my code? 10:57:21 is it so specific to genetic algorithms? 10:58:07 is just the 8 queens problem solved with a geneti algorithm 10:58:11 -!- Dilberto [~Dilberto@189.220.22.25.cable.dyn.cableonline.com.mx] has left #lisp 10:58:54 but I don't understand how to make it quicker 10:59:05 and I was looking for hints 10:59:45 i don't know genetic algorithm, i can only give general hints 11:00:43 well, another problem I have is indentation: I can't find a good guid about it, so to be closer to CL standard 11:00:50 so if you don't mind... 11:01:12 emacs indents pretty good 11:01:46 I'm using it, but I think I still need guidance in that 11:04:18 I don't know, it's just that some functions look bad indented as they are :D 11:05:22 maybe they are, but i can't see them at all 11:05:31 paste! 11:05:46 lol sure 11:05:51 minion: luv-slides? 11:05:51 luv-slides: luv-slides is a slide show by Kent Pitman and Peter Norvig discussing good programming style in Lisp and more generally. See 11:07:45 Joreji [~thomas@77-066.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:08:30 stassats: http://paste.lisp.org/display/114254 11:11:02 are you sure that lists are the best data structure for this? 11:11:25 -!- loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:11:37 no 11:12:18 but they're not the speed problem 11:13:02 indentation looks ok, though stacking everything on one line might not be good 11:13:22 less in line functions? 11:14:07 more line breaks 11:15:17 should I put them before or after the first argument of a function? 11:15:48 you should put them where they belong 11:16:12 sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:16:15 ok 11:16:39 (car (remove-if-not #'(lambda (x) (= 28 x)) population :key fitness-fn)) => (find 28 population :key fitness-fn :test-not #'=) 11:17:06 nice 11:17:26 err 11:17:40 scratch :test-not part 11:17:52 ok 11:19:09 also the temp part? 11:19:15 the temp definition in that let block 11:19:23 Kenjin [~josesanto@89-180-166-198.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 11:20:29 it can be written as (remove 28 population :key fitness-fn :test #'<) but I don't think it's more clear 11:21:36 Note that #'(lambda ... doesn't require the #' 11:21:39 (remove-if (lambda (x) (< x 28)) population :key fitness-fn) looks better to me 11:22:10 really? 11:22:21 (lambda ... does not require #' ? 11:22:26 that's right 11:22:39 good to know 11:22:46 (lambda ...) expands to (function (lambda ...)) 11:22:48 clhs lambda 11:22:56 oh well 11:23:44 baldwin [~k2t0f12d@121.98.185.20] has joined #lisp 11:24:04 Blkt: (mapcar #'(lambda (x y) (list x y)) '(a b c d e f g h) genotype) => (mapcar #'list '(a b c d e f g h) genotype) 11:25:00 I see... 11:25:22 -!- baldwin is now known as katofiad 11:25:28 and in general, too mach mapcar and reduce for my taste, but that's ok if you like it 11:25:36 s/mach/much/ 11:25:58 thank you 11:27:08 you use (apply #'max (mapcar fitness-fn population)), first, apply is wrong here, you should use reduce, (because of call-arguments-limit) 11:27:32 but that'd be just (reduce #'max population :key fitness-fn) 11:28:05 why using apply is an error there? 11:28:12 because of call-arguments-limit 11:28:49 I'm sorry, what's that call-arguments-limit about? 11:29:12 about call arguments limit, you have CLHS, don't you? 11:29:23 yes, I do 11:30:08 and why do you have +files+, but no ranks? 11:31:05 because I intended to print the solution in a good looking way 11:31:18 but then I didn't finish it 11:31:31 ah no wait 11:31:47 because ranks are the list generated with (random-genotype) 11:32:13 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181199216.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:32:24 ak70 [~ak70@80.77.204.157] has joined #lisp 11:32:25 what's '(a b c d e f g h) is doing in the code then? 11:32:29 they're implicitly placed on the file with respect to the position in the list 11:32:44 I meant to convert it for the printing purpose 11:32:59 but, as I said, I didn't finish it 11:33:49 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:35:04 I read the definition of call-arguments-limit, but I don't understand why that's an error there to use apply 11:35:28 because you may exceed it 11:35:35 how? 11:35:49 with a list larger then 50 11:36:18 because is implementation dependant, I see 11:36:19 thanks 11:36:39 it worked with 128 elements on SBCL 11:37:09 aceluck [~aceluck@175.137.79.23] has joined #lisp 11:37:19 another lousy CL design decision. 11:37:42 in a sense, SBCL has no limit, but it will just blow your stack 11:37:43 call-arguments-limit = 536870911 on SBCL, that's why 11:38:08 I understand now 11:46:12 francogrex [~user@109.130.1.109] has joined #lisp 11:47:31 well, thank you stassats for your help, I really appreciate it 11:47:42 I created an extermely simple example of a hash table implementation to show to (esstentially) non-programmers. Any feedback appreciated: http://paste.lisp.org/display/114256 11:49:01 that's rather... simple 11:50:16 and doesn't really show what hashtables are about 11:50:37 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-87-124.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:50:37 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 11:52:29 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-87-124.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 11:52:32 _s1gma [~d.d.derp@77.107.164.131] has joined #lisp 11:53:18 dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 11:58:08 -!- rtra [~rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit [Quit: off] 11:58:22 -!- xan_ [~xan@121.141.77.209] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:00:07 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:01:56 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:03:52 *JuanDaugherty* mulls buying the current state of TAOCP v. 4. 12:07:44 well, just that the key/index can be a character 12:08:26 but that is in no way the defining characteristic of a hashtable 12:09:25 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-162-112.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:09:29 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-162-112.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:10:20 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 12:11:05 a hashtable should allow the keyspace to be larger than the backing store is 12:12:00 serichsen [~user@hmbg-4d06a2ef.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 12:12:05 Good afternoon! 12:14:28 yello serichsen 12:15:08 xan_ [~xan@220.118.197.183] has joined #lisp 12:17:38 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 12:19:04 -!- rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-92-18-14.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:22:08 LiamH [~nobody@pool-72-75-117-208.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:22:54 bperryman [~barry@cpc2-bexl1-0-0-cust928.2-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 12:25:56 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:26:53 e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 12:30:37 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 12:31:36 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7574b7.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:32:45 jsnell: ok then I read the wrong tutorial; some freak said that to achieve the magic of a hashtable, use a helper function that converts any object into an integral index suitable for subscripting an array. 12:33:50 -!- ak70 [~ak70@80.77.204.157] has left #lisp 12:34:10 francogrex: the function is not necessarily bijective 12:34:23 cmeow [cmeow@happy.happy.vhost.shellium.org] has joined #lisp 12:34:55 execve_ [~execve@ppp-81-25-57-185.ultranet.ru] has joined #lisp 12:38:44 francogrex: your paste has expired :( 12:40:01 salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 12:40:15 JuanDaugherty: the status is: it is still not rewritten using Lisp instead of MIIX. 12:40:28 -!- execve_ is now known as execve 12:42:05 schmrkc sorry here it is again: http://paste.lisp.org/display/114258 12:44:34 Good afternoon everyone! 12:47:03 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-49-182.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:47:29 slash_1 [~unknown@p5DD1DEF1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:47:47 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p5DD1DDFA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:50:01 good afternoon beach 12:50:51 pjb: LOL. 12:52:15 hey beach 13:05:12 -!- slash_1 is now known as slash_ 13:05:34 Yuuhi [benni@p5483C458.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:09:47 jleija [~jleija@adsl-243-224-109.chs.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 13:10:04 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:10:44 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #lisp 13:13:34 sellout [~greg@64.134.67.95] has joined #lisp 13:14:46 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 13:15:01 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-203-193.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:15:30 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-203-193.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 13:16:04 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-066.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:18:21 Joreji [~thomas@77-066.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:19:13 -!- super` [~super_@pool-173-65-48-13.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:19:23 jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has joined #lisp 13:19:37 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 13:22:37 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:28:05 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:28:41 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:29:17 pjb: in your reply, you just repeated what I said. Or what I was trying to say, but perhaps failed 13:31:06 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483C458.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:32:19 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 13:32:43 -!- aka_ [~yfuna@gate3.tomo-labo.com] has left #lisp 13:34:41 -!- bperryman [~barry@cpc2-bexl1-0-0-cust928.2-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: bperryman] 13:36:27 sdsds [~sdsds@dyn-16.sub2.cmts01.cable.TORON10.iasl.com] has joined #lisp 13:40:16 I even pasted the wrong code, here is: http://paste.lisp.org/display/114258#1 13:40:55 Yuuhi [benni@p5483C458.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:45:48 ecl 13:46:13 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-162-112.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:48:07 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 13:49:03 tcr: sorry, I miss the context. 13:50:24 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-134-26-40.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 13:52:38 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-21-181.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:55:22 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-162-112.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:58:26 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-162-112.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:01:28 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 14:05:09 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 14:05:16 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has left #lisp 14:14:47 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-162-112.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:15:11 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:16:13 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-130-38.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:16:25 bperryman [~bperryman@cpc2-bexl1-0-0-cust928.2-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 14:19:05 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7574b7.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 14:21:34 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 14:22:16 (loop for i in data do (setf (gethash (car i) mytable) (concatenate 'string (gethash (car i) mytable) (cadr i) ", "))) As expected I get the: ("key" "value1, value2, value3... valuen, ") 14:22:42 I would like to get rid of the trailing comma at the end 14:25:54 -!- bperryman [~bperryman@cpc2-bexl1-0-0-cust928.2-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 14:26:27 -!- jleija [~jleija@adsl-243-224-109.chs.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:30:55 -!- jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:33:30 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.199.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:34:25 jmbr [~jmbr@188.127.171.159] has joined #lisp 14:34:50 -!- lnostdal [~quassel@56.84-48-233.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:36:31 lnostdal [~quassel@56.84-48-233.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 14:40:38 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-78-210.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:41:10 python_nomad [~jmm@112.201.198.157] has joined #lisp 14:41:48 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-36-247.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:42:34 francogrex: how about you have loop generate a list for you and you use some nice format recipe? 14:48:03 schmrkc: do you mean after having filled out the table (the output) or while I 'm populating the table with the values? 14:52:42 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-066.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:53:56 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441480.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:54:41 francogrex: do you need strings here? do you need to use them while filling the table? 14:54:45 manuel_ [~manuel_@p54B8F249.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:55:18 francogrex: it would be indeed more efficient to keep lists in the hash-table, and if you need strings eventually, simplier to use format. 14:56:33 (loop for (key value) in data do (push value (gethash key mytable '())) finally (maphash (lambda (key values) (setf (gethash key mytable) (format nil "~{~A~^, ~}" (nreverse values)))))) 14:57:43 hi 14:58:05 i'm fighting with CXML that tells me : Undefined function SETF::|RUNES::YSTREAM-ENCODING| called with arguments (:UTF-8 #S(RUNES::CHARACTER-STREAM-YSTREAM :ENCODING NIL :COLUMN 0 :IN-PTR 0 :IN-BUFFER \"" 14:58:08 anybody got a clue? 14:58:12 i'm not really into cxml internals 14:58:28 -!- python_nomad [~jmm@112.201.198.157] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:58:56 :UTF8 :ENCODING NIL ?? 15:02:22 -!- tcr [~tcr@81-233-246-97-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:02:26 i don't know 15:02:43 i call (CXML:MAKE-CHARACTER-STREAM-SINK stream :CANONICAL NIL) 15:03:30 what is :CANONICAL ? 15:03:42 stream encoding ? 15:04:11 any other alternatives there ? 15:04:49 -!- valvola [~val@host89-255-dynamic.27-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 15:06:50 pjb: lovely 15:07:26 problem is with ystream.lisp rather i think, because the field is in the structure 15:08:48 homie` [~user@xdsl-213-168-64-178.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:09:12 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-213-168-64-178.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:10:05 carlocci [~nes@93.37.217.199] has joined #lisp 15:10:27 Joreji [~thomas@77-066.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:10:51 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.217.199] has quit [Client Quit] 15:11:02 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw229253.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:11:06 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-162-112.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:11:14 carlocci [~nes@93.37.217.199] has joined #lisp 15:11:31 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-162-112.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:12:00 homie` [~user@xdsl-213-168-64-178.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:12:24 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-213-168-64-178.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:13:47 zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has joined #lisp 15:14:26 -!- sellout [~greg@64.134.67.95] has quit [Quit: sellout] 15:14:51 homie [~user@xdsl-213-168-64-178.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:15:19 wbooze [~user@xdsl-213-168-64-178.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:15:20 -!- varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:16:22 rvirding [~chatzilla@h19n4c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 15:20:41 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-066.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:21:14 tnoborio [~tnoborio@124-144-181-41.rev.home.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:23:59 syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-217-76.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 15:24:00 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:26:13 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-134-26-40.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:28:33 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483C113.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:30:13 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483C458.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:30:53 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@188.127.171.159] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:32:26 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.1.109] has quit [Quit: BRB] 15:32:54 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-217-76.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:34:04 -!- antivigilante [~antivigil@174-26-114-150.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:34:47 syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-217-76.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 15:35:14 vpalle__ [~vpalle@62.198.93.105] has joined #lisp 15:36:42 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:38:24 b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.58.45] has joined #lisp 15:42:54 fiveop [~fiveop@dsl-static-49.213-160-168.telecom.sk] has joined #lisp 15:43:17 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-21-181.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:45:23 pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.197.17] has joined #lisp 15:47:56 varjag [~eugene@4.169.249.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 15:48:10 ivan4th [~ivan4th@213.87.88.1] has joined #lisp 15:53:21 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:55:35 -!- salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Quit: salva] 15:56:02 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 15:57:41 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dsl-static-49.213-160-168.telecom.sk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:00:23 -!- vpalle__ [~vpalle@62.198.93.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:04:15 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:05:10 akimbost` [~user@cpe-173-095-175-246.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:07:04 -!- akimbostokes [~user@cpe-173-095-175-246.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:08:19 manuel_: did you build on a unicode lisp and then rebuilt on a non-unicode without deleting fasls between those runs? 16:09:33 -!- bhyde [~Adium@c-66-30-201-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 16:10:24 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 16:10:32 Besides faster compilation times for CCL and better generate code for SBCL, what are some other difference? I think CCL has native threads for Windows...anything else? 16:11:02 cocoatron and other GUI niceties 16:11:32 yeah, for Mac 16:11:39 -!- Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-24-28-30-165.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: I'm big in Japan] 16:11:58 Modius [~Modius@cpe-24-28-30-165.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:12:02 full mop in sbcl 16:12:18 Krystof: ok, thanks 16:12:20 full speed in sbcl 16:12:33 vpalle__ [~vpalle@62.198.93.105] has joined #lisp 16:13:08 -!- mad5ci [mad5ci@d37-90.icpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:13:16 BladeRunners: Cocoatron is intended to work outside macs 16:13:29 pkhuong_: oh yeah....is that the new project? 16:13:54 Blkt` [~user@net-93-146-156-187.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #lisp 16:16:25 -!- Blkt [~user@net-93-146-156-187.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:16:33 pkhuong_: yeah, http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.openmcl.devel/5982 nice 16:16:35 pkhuong_: does it allow *developement* outside mac right now, though? 16:18:15 p_l: I haven't written a line of CL in almost two months. 16:18:52 heh 16:18:59 mad5ci [~mad5ci@d37-90.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 16:19:54 Is the reader expansion of ` , ,@ implementation-specific? 16:20:01 Yes. 16:20:45 lichtblau: i guess that was the issue, something weird with the closure cache 16:20:50 lichtblau: rebuilding everything helped 16:21:00 so now that that issue is fixed 16:21:00 http://portfolio.ruinwesen.com/ 16:21:03 in all its glory 16:21:48 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:23:58 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 16:24:10 pkhuong_: Hi, do you have any objections to this description of the SSE intrinsic contrib API? I think it might be time to submit my code to ECL: http://github.com/angavrilov/ecl-sse/blob/master/contrib/x86-sse/sse.lsp 16:24:59 pkhuong_: (Most of that file is a comment specifying how stuff should work) 16:25:15 ikki [~ikki@189.247.133.197] has joined #lisp 16:26:23 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.217.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:27:31 dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 16:27:55 Joreji [~thomas@77-066.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 16:28:41 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-116-106.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:30:18 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@89-180-166-198.net.novis.pt] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 16:30:35 angavrilov: I'll likely follow the assembly names to the letter. 16:30:40 carlocci [~nes@93.37.217.199] has joined #lisp 16:31:03 zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:51 it should be possible to write a compatibility layer with your interface. I really want to build the bare minimum, at the assembly level, and then the rest is much easier. 16:34:34 I disagree to both using assembly instead of the C intrinsics as the basis of names, and encouraging profileration of compatibility layers without need. 16:36:26 manuel__ [~manuel_@p54B8B77D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:36:35 Intrinsics map to the instructions almost one to one, so their set is fixed, and thus there is almost no area for arbitrary extension, which is the usual underlying cause for compatibility stuff. 16:36:57 so use the instruction's name directly. 16:37:23 As for the names, I believe that for FP ops the only difference is around addps vs add-ps 16:37:41 -!- pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-49-182.dslaccess.co.uk] has quit [Quit: pdo] 16:37:48 -!- vpalle__ [~vpalle@62.198.93.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:39:21 -!- manuel_ [~manuel_@p54B8F249.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:39:21 -!- manuel__ is now known as manuel_ 16:39:52 On the other hand, the integer ones are changed to be similar to the fp ones: paddd -> add-pi32 16:39:53 -!- zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:40:03 zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 16:40:35 This almost exactly follows naming chosen by Intel for the C intrinsics 16:41:28 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:18 -!- tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has quit [Quit: sleeping] 16:44:37 Bronsa [~bronsa@host187-186-dynamic.6-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:44:40 My main deviations are: 1) drop 'e' from _mm_add_epi32 because I don't and won't support MMX, and that letter was added to distinguish exactly that 16:44:44 -!- benny [~user@i577A86C4.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:45:08 2) rename _mm_xor_si128 etc to xor-pi for uniformity and brevity 16:46:16 3) rename comparisons from cmple_ps to <=-ps: perhaps it has something to do with not being a native speaker, but I find the letter-only form to be several times harder to undestand at a glance - and in lisp non-alphabetics are not a problem 16:47:05 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 16:47:10 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has left #lisp 16:49:28 the asm names are standardised, well-documented, and, to understand what an intrinsic does or find the right one, you end up going to the asm documentation anyway. 16:49:42 What's wrong with asm names? 16:50:04 I don't know them, I use http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/y0dh78ez%28v=VS.80%29.aspx 16:51:30 That the first result for sse intrinsics in google... 16:51:56 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@38-91-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:52:42 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-066.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 16:53:04 -!- ivan4th [~ivan4th@213.87.88.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:53:32 lemoinem [~swoog@79-84-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 16:55:25 Ah, yes, I've also renamed converts from something like cvtps_pd to convert-ps-to-pd 16:55:36 benny [~user@i577A3186.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:57:21 hmm... is there some good study regarding recent ECL performance? 16:58:02 (Surprisingly, here the assembly names are more readable than C ones: CVTPS2PD has a '2' to make direction explicit) 16:58:35 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-21-181.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:58:36 ... oh god, that name reminds me so much "hungarian notation" ... 16:59:46 Joreji [~thomas@77-066.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 17:00:23 abugosh [~Adium@static-71-179-170-41.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:01:35 On the other hand I definitely find add_epi32 more readable than paddd... :) 17:01:37 -!- manuel_ [~manuel_@p54B8B77D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: manuel_] 17:02:23 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:02:23 and yet it's both clear and concise: packed add of dwords. 17:04:21 yet you need to know this name beforehand, and it is completely different from how float ops are named 17:05:10 You only need to know the pattern, and you have to know whether the operation exists anyway. 17:05:13 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-21-181.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:06:38 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:06:55 -!- tnoborio [~tnoborio@124-144-181-41.rev.home.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:07:08 manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:07:46 there is also the thing that intrinsics are supposed to look like functions in the language, and in lisp's case that implies some '-'s 17:08:17 It seems that the hyphen is the only pervasive naming difference between FP asm insns and intrinsics 17:09:54 It also fits well with AREF-like accessors: AREF-PS AREF-PD AREF-PI 17:11:24 Which also are a feature to make SSE intrinsics behave more like something integrated with the language 17:11:45 and that's where you get creative to find a nice way to expose things to the user. I don't think we can do that before having users. Go ahead and try things out, I'll bundle the bare minimum, and see what works and what doesn't later. 17:13:30 Without a way to access arrays intrinsics are useless. In C you can cast the pointer yourself; in Lisp you can't, so the library has to provide it bundled. 17:14:08 ah, but in SBCL, I can cast arrays to pointers. 17:14:09 Is there any other conceivable way without also requiring usage of implementation-specific FFI syntax 17:14:51 If the interface is supposed to be stand-alone from any other independent extensions, a vectorized AREF seems to be the only way. 17:16:29 Incidentally, the pointer-using intrinsic is probably also nice (hmm, maybe I should add it), but it probably should have an additional integer offset argument to be more usable in implementations where making new pointers implies consing. 17:16:42 -!- ``Erik [Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:16:49 Sort of like CFFI does with (mem-ref ptr &optional offset) 17:16:50 surely the interface is automatically-vectorised map-into 17:17:12 No, that's a lot more high-level :) 17:17:26 Krystof: can't do that for FP without specifying how we want to handle exceptions better ;) 17:17:40 Here we are talking about manually manipulating 16-byte mini-vectors as values 17:18:59 pkhuong: thanks for the tip about the placement new in C++ you gave me a while back 17:21:59 Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has joined #lisp 17:22:25 faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 17:22:36 Anyway, those arefs are exactly that: they compute a pointer to an array element, and feed it to the appropriate load or store instruction. Only it is bundled so as to hide anything that might be implementation-specific. 17:23:05 Plus maybe some additional index checking to ensure that accessing whole 16 bytes does not overrun the buffer. 17:23:23 When compiled in safe mode, naturally. 17:28:42 antivigilante [~antivigil@174-26-85-57.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:58 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 17:32:11 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:34:21 Stattrav [~Stattrav@unaffiliated/stattrav] has joined #lisp 17:34:34 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-21-181.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:01 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:36:15 -!- abugosh [~Adium@static-71-179-170-41.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:39:06 Incidentally, what kind of code are you planning to write yourself? I probably need to make some test cases for my ECL contrib anyway. 17:40:19 I'm planning to use it for straightforward vectorization of FP computation; this is one of the reasons I want to make a usable minimally scary interface. 17:41:54 sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:43:37 mejja [~user@c-14bee555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 17:43:43 bhyde [~Adium@c-66-30-201-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:46:40 -!- aceluck [~aceluck@175.137.79.23] has quit [Quit: aceluck] 17:47:54 try again ... anybody recognizes this syndrome: http://paste.lisp.org/+2G5K 17:52:32 <_3b> have you defined any print-object methods? 17:53:25 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@unaffiliated/stattrav] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:53:39 pkhuong_: ping, I'm going to sleep soon 17:54:07 bhyde: # is because of *print-level* 17:54:59 -!- wioux [~pswoo@76-218-106-110.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 17:55:22 stassats: indeed, but sadly setting sb-ext:*debug-print-variable-alist* didn't help 17:55:40 does your code touch it? 17:57:20 angavrilov: common vector operations in CL, mostly integer. 17:58:15 hmm, could you elaborate a bit? 17:59:08 ak70 [~ak70@80.77.204.157] has joined #lisp 17:59:43 -!- ak70 [~ak70@80.77.204.157] has left #lisp 18:00:11 re me, I'm already doing working vectorization via inline C code generated by macros; but that duplicates the work of the compiler, so now I want to put the functionality where it belongs 18:01:04 the obvious stuff, bitwise operation, and other aggregate operations defined in CL (e.g. FIND). That, and SFMT. 18:01:20 -!- Blkt` [~user@net-93-146-156-187.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Quit: Error: do not makunbound t please!] 18:02:41 -!- execve [~execve@ppp-81-25-57-185.ultranet.ru] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:04:04 stassats - the code has set *print-pretty* to T, and *print-right-margin* to 55 ; but removing those doesn't change the problem 18:05:30 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-217-76.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:07:31 execve [~execve@ppp-81-25-57-185.ultranet.ru] has joined #lisp 18:12:51 pkhuong_: Something like this, you mean? http://github.com/jj1bdx/sfmt-extstate/blob/master/sfmt-extstate-sse2.c Maybe I'll try rewriting it using my ECL contrib, as a regression test :) 18:15:25 angavrilov: yup. 18:16:40 -!- b-man_ [~b-man@189.34.58.45] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:17:16 -!- daniel___ is now known as daniel 18:17:42 -!- delYsid [~user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Read error: 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host closed the connection] 19:54:16 Hi Sikander 19:55:33 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-066.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:57:12 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:01:12 pdo [~pdo@dyn-62-56-49-182.dslaccess.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:06:34 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-21-181.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:24 super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 20:08:10 scode_ [~scode@hyperion.scode.org] has joined #lisp 20:08:23 claint` [~user@88.243.129.19] has joined #lisp 20:08:58 bozhidar` [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 20:09:09 why is SELECTOR-FN undefined here? 20:09:12 (defun select-quote (selector-fn) 20:09:12 (select 20:09:12 #'(lambda (e) 20:09:12 (and 20:09:12 (equal (getf e :type) :quote) 20:09:13 (selector-fn e))))) 20:09:20 lisppaste: url 20:09:28 minion: lisppaste 20:09:32 wioux: use funcall. common lisp is a lisp-2 20:09:48 wioux: and please use paste.lisp.org :) 20:09:57 urandom_ [~user@p548A5806.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:10:39 homie` [~user@xdsl-213-168-64-178.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:10:58 sorry -- first time here. just broke into lisp yesterday. would you mind explaining why funcall is required in this case? 20:11:14 wioux: symbols are bound to values and functions separately 20:11:19 rotty_ [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has joined #lisp 20:11:25 ah 20:11:30 eno__ [~eno@adsl-70-137-144-48.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:11:33 nuba_ [~nuba@pauleira.com] has joined #lisp 20:11:38 cods_ [~cods@tuxee.net] has joined #lisp 20:11:46 wioux: so selector-fn is bound as a value, but not as a function in your example 20:11:47 franki^_ [~frankie@ajax.webvictim.net] has joined #lisp 20:11:47 tvaalen_ [~r@terminal.se] has joined #lisp 20:11:48 hanneso_ [hannes@h151n2c1o1110.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 20:12:03 p_l_ [plasek@gateway/shell/rootnode.net/x-atboblbpiahpeoyt] has joined #lisp 20:12:23 fualo_ [~fualo@markov.genomecenter.ucdavis.edu] has joined #lisp 20:12:25 wioux: It's called a lisp-2, instead of a lisp-1 where the functions and variables share the same space 20:12:45 wioux: have you tried looking at Practical Common Lisp? 20:13:20 on the other hand, (remove-if-not selector-fn *notebook*) works.. selector-fn is given as a value, and remove-if-not calls funcall internally? 20:13:25 yes that's the guide i'm using 20:13:44 guess i should finish it :) 20:13:59 fgtech [~federico@host109-221-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 20:14:44 wioux: that's correct. You can pass functions as values just fine, but you'll need a funcall to disambiguate the cases 20:14:47 -!- homie` [~user@xdsl-213-168-64-178.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 20:14:54 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-213-168-64-178.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:14:56 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-119-214.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:16:11 yahooooo7 [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:16:24 do you know what the reasoning was behind introducing that distinction? 20:16:25 -!- cods [~cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:16:26 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-107.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:16:26 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A5806.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:16:26 -!- keithpoole [~keithpool@cpc3-bagu8-0-0-cust84.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:16:27 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:16:27 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@pool-70-19-68-252.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:16:27 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:16:28 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-213-168-64-178.netcologne.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:16:28 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441480.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:16:28 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:16:29 -!- LiamH [~nobody@pool-72-75-117-208.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:16:29 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:16:29 -!- nuba [~nuba@64.150.190.84] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:16:29 -!- claint [~user@88.243.129.19] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:16:30 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:16:30 -!- p_l [plasek@gateway/shell/rootnode.net/x-hsdnxrvmfqqhraxd] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:16:30 -!- Holcxjo [~holly@home.sinclair-durer.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:16:30 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-61-157.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:16:31 -!- Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:16:31 -!- scode [~scode@hyperion.scode.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:16:31 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:16:32 -!- djinni` [~djinni`@li14-39.members.linode.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:16:32 -!- maharba [~eldragon@84.79.67.254] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:16:32 -!- franki^ [~frankie@ajax.webvictim.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:16:32 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:16:33 -!- fualo [~fualo@markov.genomecenter.ucdavis.edu] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:16:33 -!- yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:16:33 -!- rotty [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:16:33 -!- tvaalen [~r@unaffiliated/tvaal] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:16:33 -!- hanneso [hannes@h151n2c1o1110.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:16:45 sellout [~greg@c-24-61-13-161.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:16:48 dnolen [~dnolen@pool-70-19-68-252.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:16:49 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@pool-70-19-68-252.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:16:51 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441480.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 20:17:12 wioux: it tends to be a matter of taste. I like it, myself. I can name a variable LIST without worrying about the LIST function 20:17:20 keithpoole [~keithpool@cpc3-bagu8-0-0-cust84.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:17:49 ah 20:17:56 hankhero [~Adium@c213-89-201-154.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:18:39 -!- cods_ is now known as cods 20:18:51 -!- cods [~cods@tuxee.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:18:51 cods [~cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has joined #lisp 20:19:51 plus it's not just variables and functions; classes, lexical blocks, etc. have their own namespaces as well 20:20:06 yeah, CL is more of a lisp-7 or so 20:20:45 packages, tagbody forms, restarts, signaled conditions 20:21:27 dfox [~dfox@ip-89-176-209-74.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 20:23:15 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 20:23:19 Holcxjo [~holly@home.sinclair-durer.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:39 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 20:23:48 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:59 djinni` [~djinni`@li14-39.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 20:24:02 sbahra [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-24.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:24:17 Quadrescence [~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 20:25:04 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-61-157.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:09 LiamH [~nobody@pool-72-75-117-208.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:39 delYsid [~user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 20:31:13 maharba [~eldragon@84.79.67.254] has joined #lisp 20:33:02 -!- fgtech [~federico@host109-221-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:36:47 -!- maharba is now known as eldragon 20:37:12 -!- mad5ci [~mad5ci@d37-90.icpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: *puff*] 20:38:26 -!- legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-47-245.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:40:26 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-82-7.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 20:41:18 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:42:35 -!- eldragon is now known as maharba 20:42:49 jmbr [~jmbr@36.103.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 20:44:11 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:49:47 dlowe: packages, restarts, and conditions aren't lexical, thoug. lisp-4 is about right, imo: functions, variables, blocks, and tags 20:51:19 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-21-181.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:51:31 when you (cons 1 2), is clisp behind the scenes doing (cons 1 (cons 2 nil))? 20:52:08 fualo_: you mean when you (list 1 2)? 20:52:08 is that just syntatic sugar? 20:52:27 dlowe: yea, that too 20:52:45 fualo_: it's equivalent, but probably faster 20:53:01 this is multiple lisp confusion on my part... you can (cons 1 2) in common lisp, no? 20:53:15 but in clojure, that's illegal... so I'm just trying to sort it out 20:53:26 in almost any lisp, (cons 1 2) gets you a cons cell with 1 in the car and 2 in the cdr 20:53:40 I think clojure 20:53:46 dlowe: so there is no nil though? 20:53:54 is a special case. You might want to try #clojure instead 20:54:15 fualo_: there's no NIL when you call CONS unless you pass one in 20:54:28 behind the scenes though, that means that cons cell traversing would have would stop when it hits nil or an single value 20:54:59 the difference between a proper list and an improper one 20:55:21 ah yes, right 20:55:24 thanks dlowe 20:55:38 -!- urandom_ [~user@p548A5806.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:55:43 fualo_: It is not syntactic sugar. It's a different function that does the equivalent of what you are saying. 20:55:58 Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has joined #lisp 20:56:04 beach: list or cons? 20:56:34 fualo_: the list function does the equivalent of calling cons. 20:56:45 beach: and makes a proper list? 20:56:54 It does yes. 20:57:03 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 20:57:29 fualo_: and it is nothing particular of the clisp implementation of Common Lisp; it is in the Common Lisp standard. clojure is not an implementation of Common Lisp. 20:57:38 -!- super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:57:42 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-184-181-149.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:57:45 thanks beach 20:57:57 fualo_: No problem. 20:59:50 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:04:59 rbarraud_ [~rbarraud@118-92-18-14.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 21:07:07 vpalle [~vpalle@62.198.93.105] has joined #lisp 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[Quit: leaving] 21:51:57 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:56:26 why is it again that we can't C-M-u out of a string? 21:56:34 (I forget) 21:57:25 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:58:19 Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has joined #lisp 21:58:32 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:58:47 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:58:51 mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has joined #lisp 21:58:52 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has quit [Changing host] 21:58:52 mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has joined #lisp 22:03:10 homie [~user@xdsl-213-168-64-178.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:03:22 wbooze [~user@xdsl-213-168-64-178.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:04:25 -!- Kerrick [~Kerrick@e40-1.nat.iastate.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:06:38 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