00:00:59 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-197-65.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire.] 00:05:34 s0ber_ [~s0ber@111-240-219-77.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 00:06:16 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-216-241.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:07:33 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:08:03 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.27] has joined #lisp 00:08:24 Bucciarati [~buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has joined #lisp 00:08:29 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-240-213.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 00:12:38 syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-223-155.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 00:13:53 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:14:45 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:18:55 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:20:59 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:21:12 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:22:20 dlowe1 [~dlowe@c122-106-121-61.rivrw6.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:22:43 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c122-106-121-61.rivrw6.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 00:23:38 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 00:25:10 -!- steven_t [~steven@unaffiliated/steven] has left #lisp 00:26:53 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.58.144] has joined #lisp 00:28:23 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:28:33 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:28:59 -!- JuanDaugherty [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:30:40 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:37:05 nibiru_ [~nibiru@unaffiliated/nibiru] has joined #lisp 00:37:08 hey friends. 00:38:05 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:39:28 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:39:48 JuanDaugherty [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:40:09 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-206-24.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:41:35 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 00:43:22 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:52:31 -!- urandom_ [~user@p548A5284.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:53:15 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:55:53 -!- JuanDaugherty [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:56:42 JuanDaugherty [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:57:57 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:58:07 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:06:17 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 01:08:17 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:08:35 themyke123 [~themyke1@adsl-190-134-46.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:08:38 -!- themyke123 [~themyke1@adsl-190-134-46.asm.bellsouth.net] has left #lisp 01:12:11 PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 01:12:53 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@69.86.153.232] has joined #lisp 01:13:14 how do i change directory in sbcl 01:13:25 i tried (change-directory but that didnt work 01:13:28 idk what else it could be 01:15:18 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:15:18 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-141-141.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:15:37 Typically change *default-pathname-defaults* to the desired directory. This is portable. But may not be quite what you wanted. 01:16:09 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@c-66-41-249-30.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:16:10 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 01:16:20 WOG [~OsamaBinW@24-177-10-101.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:20:28 -!- Fade [fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:21:47 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 01:24:30 -!- chiiph [~chiiph@gentoo/developer/chiiph] has quit [Quit: bye bye] 01:24:52 chiiph [~chiiph@gentoo/developer/chiiph] has joined #lisp 01:25:34 -!- hydo [~cmoore@c-24-16-168-68.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: hydo] 01:27:03 Fade [fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has joined #lisp 01:28:56 hydo [~cmoore@c-24-16-168-68.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:30:01 mejja [~user@c-14bee555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 01:30:12 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:30:38 -!- hydo [~cmoore@c-24-16-168-68.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:31:04 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.know.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:34:18 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.161.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:35:13 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: Really paying attention now.] 01:37:06 -!- cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: 'bye.] 01:37:36 cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 01:41:20 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Storm] 01:41:56 -!- Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-yvjoiymrnhjkhjdy] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:42:27 abugosh [~Adium@96.241.34.92] has joined #lisp 01:43:03 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.211.5] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 01:44:48 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-223-155.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:45:12 hydo [~cmoore@c-24-16-168-68.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:45:37 syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-223-155.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:45:38 Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-mhvuwuhawwqlgsfn] has joined #lisp 01:45:59 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-223-155.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:46:31 syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-223-155.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:46:36 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-223-155.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:47:17 syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-223-155.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:48:27 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-223-155.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:48:32 syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-223-155.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:49:07 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-223-155.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:49:23 -!- nibiru_ is now known as antilove 01:50:44 syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-223-155.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:50:51 sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has joined #lisp 01:51:24 -!- JuanDaugherty [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:56:15 JuanDaugherty [~juan@mobile-166-137-138-114.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 01:56:46 -!- antilove is now known as nibiru_ 01:57:38 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-67-248-22-159.nycap.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 02:02:13 -!- manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:04:10 -!- symbole [~symbole@h-69-3-39-78.nycmny83.static.covad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:07:04 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-223-155.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:12:17 -!- curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:12:27 -!- TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-75-83-191-189.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:13:36 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-206-24.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:15:32 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@66.220.12.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:18:54 -!- hydo [~cmoore@c-24-16-168-68.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: hydo] 02:22:56 Ok. Cmucl linux executable cores seem to work now on openSuSE 11.2 and Debian whatever on common-lisp.net. 02:26:56 -!- ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:28:41 is there some slime/emacs key combo to show the documentation string for a fn? not C-d C-d C-f, but something that would do the same as: (documentation 'foo 'function) 02:29:24 er that's actually C-c C-d C-f 02:29:50 bigjust [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:31:45 C-c C-d C-d, kind of 02:32:02 this is actually DESCRIBE 02:33:48 tcr: nod, I've been using that as well, but I'm looking for _just_ the doc string output. Guess I'll wire something up ;) 02:38:08 sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.161.218] has joined #lisp 02:38:50 ramus_ [~ramus@adsl-99-136-194-199.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:39:59 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:40:00 -!- nibiru_ [~nibiru@unaffiliated/nibiru] has quit [Quit: brb] 02:42:11 -!- ramus [~ramus@99.23.135.247] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:42:16 -!- ramus_ [~ramus@adsl-99-136-194-199.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:42:31 ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-136-194-199.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:45:05 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 02:45:51 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:46:58 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 02:47:21 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 02:49:32 -!- entropax [~entropi@192.55.54.38] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:49:34 austinh [~austinh@c-24-21-81-46.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:49:48 nibiru_ [~nibiru@unaffiliated/nibiru] has joined #lisp 02:58:05 -!- mejja [~user@c-14bee555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:00:02 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@171-76-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:00:54 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.92.12] has joined #lisp 03:08:58 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:09:44 -!- abugosh [~Adium@96.241.34.92] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:11:00 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 03:21:24 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-126-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:21:31 abugosh [~Adium@96.241.34.92] has joined #lisp 03:24:55 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 03:30:11 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:30:23 -!- nibiru_ [~nibiru@unaffiliated/nibiru] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:33:28 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: Tweaking Emacs config.] 03:35:40 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 03:36:39 steven_t [~steven@unaffiliated/steven] has joined #lisp 03:36:42 hello! 03:37:26 hi!! 03:37:53 i just heard about lisp today.. am told it is the king of metaprogramming.. yesterday i assumed lisp was outdated and long dead.. go figure! 03:38:02 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 03:38:20 wow!!! 03:38:21 ike` [~user@c-71-56-115-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:38:26 -!- asarch [~asarch@187.132.133.21] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:38:26 man i am excited. i went from objc to python to ruby and felt like it was a step up every time.. maybe lisp is the end of my journey :D 03:38:32 maybe!!!! 03:38:37 lol 03:38:58 steven_t: Sound a bit like my journey. 03:39:02 do yall recommend LispWorks Personal Edition for jumping into lisp on mac os x? 03:39:07 *steven_t* is reading http://www.newartisans.com/2007/10/common-lisp-on-mac-os-x.html 03:39:11 There is no end. 03:39:16 i hope not! 03:39:24 although if there is, thats fine, i can take up carpentry 03:39:29 Realise now that there is no king of languages. 03:39:35 righto 03:39:40 Only kings of certain paradigms. 03:39:46 (Which you seem to realise.) :P 03:39:49 Like King Kong. 03:39:49 *steven_t* wants to write a hello world on mac os x in common lisp 03:39:53 Then do it. 03:40:09 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-206-24.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:40:13 still looking for an interpreter 03:40:14 ReadyLisp on mac os x is fine 03:40:21 SBCL + emacs + SLIME 03:40:30 is there a recommended cli interpreter for common lisp? 03:40:35 (for mac os x) 03:40:55 There's SBCL. 03:41:07 Usualy the simplest to set up is clisp, but it also has relatively poor performance. 03:41:12 ah 03:41:42 I found that StumpWM sped up when I switched from SBCL to CLISP. 03:41:44 There are binary packages for SBCL. 03:41:52 in the beginning of Practical Common Lisp he describes how some lisp interpreters (or compilers?) are as high performing as C compilers 03:42:29 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:42:34 A slight exageration in most cases. 03:42:40 ah 03:42:47 Why do you care? 03:42:56 i was kind of hoping CL was the alternative to C that ive been looking for 03:43:13 (dynamic and open but fast and low memory) 03:43:15 Depends on what you're doing ... 03:43:33 steven_t: For what purpose? If you're writing server and application software, there's probably a CL implementation you can use. 03:43:48 People have written kernels in CL. 03:43:51 well, server and application software is mostly what id use it for i guess 03:44:03 Zhivago: people have written kernels in maaaany languages im told 03:44:05 In which case "fast and low memory" isn't really an issue. 03:44:08 even ruby and python :D 03:44:25 It isn't like you're writing for systems with 256 bytes of ram. 03:44:26 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.166.164.130] has joined #lisp 03:44:29 righto 03:44:35 yeah, i dont worry much about performance 03:44:36 Ruby? Python? How can that be possible? 03:44:46 Then adjust your criteria to something meaningful. 03:44:56 They don't have the necessary facilities, do they? 03:45:04 i wonder if theres a way to write lisp using the Cocoa framework on osx 03:45:10 *steven_t* is so tired of ObjC 03:45:17 perhaps Nu is the closest ill get to that 03:45:37 steven_t: CL is not a good fit for the Objective-C runtime and library, which is what you need to work with 03:45:42 Googling for "lisp cocoa" seems to produce some results ... 03:46:08 Makoryu: i didnt think so 03:46:20 i guess then all id want to use it for is probably server-side code 03:46:42 for websites and other TCP fun projects 03:46:47 (irc!) 03:46:51 Well. I suggest that you work out what you want to do and then ask about that. 03:46:57 okie dokie 03:48:28 hohoho [~hohoho@p4ae269.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:49:09 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-206-24.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:49:17 Could an iPhone app be written in CL, and if so would it likely be approved? 03:49:32 (Not planning on writing one; just curious.) 03:49:49 aidalgol: Dunno about CL, but people have done that with Scheme 03:50:07 aidalgol: It would violate the development terms. 03:50:30 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:50:41 Zhivago: Not the current ones. At least, not if you ask for clearance. 03:51:10 They decided to scrap their required language list? :) 03:51:25 Although, personally, I think you'd be wasting your time developing for the iphone at the moment. 03:51:53 Zhivago: Sort of. Now they want people asking for written permission before they submit an app that ventures outside that list 03:52:17 Still insane. I'm betting on android winning this war. 03:52:22 I'm not clear on what the procedure is for asking for that 03:52:23 Apple is slowly screwing itself. 03:52:32 -!- abugosh [~Adium@96.241.34.92] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:52:41 They are killing their own market. 03:52:52 Wouldn't be the first time. 03:53:18 Big boom. Then slowly cut off the oxygen. 03:54:24 -!- bigjust [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:54:54 Just a matter of time before someone writes an iphone compatibility layer for android. 03:55:34 Yeah that sounds like a realistic and incredibly likely course of action that could not possibly make Apple's lawyers angry 03:55:40 It occured to me the other day that when said "no interpreters on the phone" they should have at least said, "no interpreters of Turing complete languages on the phone". 03:55:51 We've got this nice theoretical result; might as well use it. 03:56:19 gigamonkey: I guess that lets pdf through. 03:56:37 Zhivago: that's sort of what I was thinking. And interactive fiction engines, etc. 03:56:57 Uh. 03:57:15 gigamonkey: "Turing complete" does not mean "not sandboxed" 03:57:32 Interactive fiction code is usually Turning complete 03:58:50 Um. Which interactive fiction engines aren't turing complete? 03:59:00 The zmachine certainly is, for programs that fit. 03:59:13 -!- rlpowell [~rlpowell@chain.digitalkingdom.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:59:16 rlpowell_ [~rlpowell@chain.digitalkingdom.org] has joined #lisp 03:59:43 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:59:43 -!- salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:59:43 -!- Beetny` [~Beetny@ppp118-208-64-33.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:59:43 -!- krl [~krl@port-87-193-235-133.static.qsc.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:59:43 -!- bgs000 [cheshire@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-wxtfizlxiddhysps] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:59:43 -!- lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:59:43 -!- mqt [m@lambda.nirv.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:59:44 -!- rootzlevel [~hpd@91-66-217-25-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 03:59:44 -!- m4thrick 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04:00:56 gigamonkey: Pretty sure it is. 04:01:13 -!- Ginei_Morioka [irssi_log@78.112.67.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:01:24 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:01:25 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:01:25 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:01:35 IIRC it includes standard control structures, arithmetic, and memory allocation instructions 04:01:39 That's all you need 04:02:17 hydo [~cmoore@c-24-16-168-68.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:02:42 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 04:02:43 pjb` [~t@81.202.16.46] has joined #lisp 04:02:48 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:02:48 PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 04:02:48 Beetny` [~Beetny@ppp118-208-64-33.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:02:48 krl 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Guthur [~michael@host86-148-29-214.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:27:51 hydo [~cmoore@c-24-16-168-68.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:29:50 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 04:30:00 -!- rlpowell_ [~rlpowell@chain.digitalkingdom.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:31:06 rlpowell [~rlpowell@chain.digitalkingdom.org] has joined #lisp 04:32:26 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:34:33 -!- marienz [~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz] has quit [Ping timeout: 600 seconds] 04:36:20 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-206-24.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:36:37 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-206-24.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:38:39 Good morning everyone! 04:39:33 mornin' ;D 04:45:26 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-35-221.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 04:46:04 Hello beach! 04:47:01 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-84-149.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:48:40 hi beach 04:48:58 Hi fe[nl]ix! 04:49:43 hi psilord1 04:50:14 aja [~aja@unaffiliated/aja] has joined #lisp 04:50:45 fe[nl]ix, I'm about to release the master-slave library I wrote in CL using IOLib. Afterwards, I may write a chapter in the IOLib tutorial on UDP communications. 04:50:58 cool :) 04:51:19 Also, care if I move the tutorial to LaTeX? 04:52:03 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-206-24.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:52:10 marienz [~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz] has joined #lisp 04:52:35 -!- nibiru is now known as Nibiru 04:54:04 fe[nl]ix: Your delay in response suggests you care. :) I'll leave it as regular old text for a while longer. :) 04:54:53 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-155.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:54:59 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-155.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:56:43 Bed time for me, I'm out! 04:57:51 slyrus_ [~slyrus@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:59:15 -!- psilord1 [~psilord@ppp-70-226-170-230.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has left #lisp 05:00:51 hahaha 05:01:57 psilord1 [~psilord@ppp-70-226-170-230.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 05:02:01 -!- psilord1 [~psilord@ppp-70-226-170-230.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has left #lisp 05:03:16 marioxcc [~user@200.92.172.158] has joined #lisp 05:03:24 Hi lispers 05:03:35 Hello marioxcc. 05:04:02 hi mari 05:04:04 -!- marienz [~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz] has quit [Ping timeout: 619 seconds] 05:04:09 marioxcc: :) 05:04:18 benny` [~user@i577A1AB3.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 05:04:24 :) 05:04:34 for a macro than iterates throught the tiles of a board would you name it `do-board-tiles-...' or `board-do-tiles-...'? 05:04:48 do usually comes first 05:04:50 please excuse my bad english 05:04:55 dto: ok :) 05:05:09 how is your projet going? 05:05:30 dto: fine, thanks :) 05:05:49 -!- benny` is now known as benny 05:05:52 i'm (almost) rewriting pathfinding 05:05:54 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 05:06:02 because it is too slow currently 05:06:16 -!- 20QABJDJI is now known as oconnore_ 05:08:34 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 05:09:36 psilord1 [~psilord@ppp-70-226-170-230.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 05:09:39 dto: Will you repeat the expo yearly? 05:09:53 -!- psilord1 [~psilord@ppp-70-226-170-230.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has left #lisp 05:10:00 -!- Levenson [~Levenson@91.185.12.110] has left #lisp 05:10:03 marioxcc: probably. 05:10:16 marioxcc: seems like more people can participate during june/july 05:10:54 dto: sure, they are summer holidays on half-world 05:11:10 dto: while they should be partying 05:11:23 :) 05:12:12 A Lisp expo sounds like th kind of party I'd like to be at! :P 05:12:17 yup 05:12:33 i bet it's full of smug lisp weenies 05:12:51 after this i'm going to gather requirements and send out an RFC for this cross platform common lisp game development environment, a GameMaker for lisp complete with gui 05:13:10 we really aren't as far as it sounds, from delivering this 05:13:43 -!- dejones [~dejones@cpe-70-124-77-66.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:14:08 dejones [~dejones@cpe-70-124-77-66.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:14:41 good night for now 05:14:52 ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 05:14:55 hello 05:15:25 ost: hi 05:15:31 hello 05:15:31 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:15:52 -!- jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: jhalogen] 05:23:07 -!- Spewns [~jake@97-92-222-240.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:32:08 cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 05:34:32 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 05:34:43 -!- Nibiru is now known as nibiru 05:37:58 -!- oconnore_ [~oconnore@c-24-61-119-4.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:40:19 -!- dejones [~dejones@cpe-70-124-77-66.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:44:42 -!- Buganini_ is now known as Buganini 05:45:13 -!- cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: 'bye.] 05:45:38 cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 05:45:42 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 05:47:22 -!- legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-35-221.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:47:38 Davse_Bamse [~davse@82.103.143.161] has joined #lisp 05:49:09 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-35-221.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 05:55:48 -!- Samy [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-49.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:55:56 -!- boyscared [~bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:56:26 Samy [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-49.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:57:02 curi_ [~curi@c-24-5-243-200.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:57:37 Sonja [~sonjaaa@bas3-toronto47-1279334926.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 05:58:16 what percent of CL and Racket are the same? for basic syntax and function/method names and data types and such 05:58:23 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-26-200.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:58:26 they seem to be very closely related languages 05:58:45 -!- curi_ [~curi@c-24-5-243-200.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:58:46 Sonja: Have you heard of Scheme, by any chance? 06:00:49 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Quit: HULK ANGRY! HULK DISCONNECT!] 06:01:29 yes, and the specific dialect of scheme i'm curious about is called racket 06:01:43 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 06:02:12 Sonja: Racket is based on Scheme rather than CL 06:02:37 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:03:11 setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:03:32 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 06:04:55 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 06:04:59 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-wgaaovrwxulkoyph] has joined #lisp 06:05:08 i'm curious to what extent scheme and lisp are similar 06:05:10 or dissimilar 06:05:17 i know they're similar in many ways 06:06:05 Scheme is a Lisp dialect. Common Lisp is also a Lisp dialect 06:06:13 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-64-200-182.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:07:09 cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has joined #lisp 06:08:38 abend [~alx@delta.muted.org] has joined #lisp 06:09:01 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:09:32 are there any dialects that don't use so many parentheses? 06:09:37 See dylan. 06:09:47 Why do you want fewer parentheses? 06:10:16 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 06:10:18 it's hard to parse many parentheses with the naked eye 06:10:19 lisp uses only a pair of parenthesis 06:10:40 Sonja: ^ That's the second-best question anyone ever asked 06:10:52 The best one is "Why is Zed Shaw so fucking awesome" 06:11:15 is he? 06:11:20 Why are you looking at the parentheses? 06:12:31 Sonja: use emacs with paredit 06:12:39 then parentheses aren't a problem anymore 06:12:48 (and personnaly I find then useful) 06:13:44 dejones [~dejones@cpe-70-124-77-66.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:14:42 Sonja: You should be looking at the indentation 06:15:25 Sonja: Think of the parentheses as editor commands for indenting the code correctly. :) 06:15:42 beach: nicely put 06:15:54 Thanks! 06:16:03 pew. 06:17:23 *beach* should write a Climacs mode that presents parentheses in a faded kind of way. 06:17:34 mister Mongrel 06:19:23 -!- ve [~a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:19:55 ve [~a@193.62.81.27] has joined #lisp 06:20:39 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-125-58.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 06:22:46 beach: do you use climacs on a daily basis? 06:24:37 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:24:54 what's wrong with emacs? 06:25:42 is there any way, in SBCL or CL in general, to get sub-second times that are meaningful in an absolute sense? 06:25:56 rlpowell: ¿what do you mean? 06:26:02 -!- Sonja [~sonjaaa@bas3-toronto47-1279334926.dsl.bell.ca] has left #lisp 06:26:13 That mean the same thing after a restart, basically. 06:26:44 The only way I know of to get sub-second times is get-internal-real-time, which resets each time the server is restarted. 06:27:00 Which makes it totally useless for time keeping across restarts. 06:27:38 -!- hydo [~cmoore@c-24-16-168-68.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: hydo] 06:28:44 slyrus: No, I don't. There are some minor annoying things that I never got around to fixing. 06:28:44 ripowell: What problem are you trying to solve? 06:29:10 beach: ah, that's too bad. it would certainly benefit from a user :) 06:29:14 Zhivago: event queuing in a game server, such that when the server restarts it can continue doing sensible things. 06:29:26 slyrus: Indeed, yes. 06:29:32 Why don't you just ask the event queue, then? 06:29:52 Huh? 06:30:08 Well obviously the event queue knows the time of the last event it has in it or whatever, or you wouldn't care about the time. 06:30:18 -!- cupe [~cupe@mein.eigensex.org] has left #lisp 06:30:19 So, why not just ask it what that is? 06:30:21 nibiru: An editor written entirely in Common Lisp would be much easier to integrate into a complete development environment for Common Lisp. 06:30:27 Ummmm. 06:30:43 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:30:56 boyscared [~bm3719@c-68-48-171-245.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:30:57 You mean the event queue I wrote myself, that stores values taken from get-internal-real-time ? Or do you mean something else? 06:31:07 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:31:21 Ok, then why don't you allow the event queue to use a different identifier other than time in order to select a state? 06:31:36 Beacuse that would be solving a totally different problem? 06:31:55 The problem is to have particular things happen at particular points in the future, to sub-second resolution. 06:32:56 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 06:33:12 Time to break out into posix-land, then. 06:33:37 -!- austinh [~austinh@c-24-21-81-46.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:33:42 OK, so the actual answer to my question is "No"? 06:34:05 Sort of expected the sbcl extensions would have something. *sigh* 06:34:36 vtz [~user@client-73-37-12.speedy-net.bg] has joined #lisp 06:35:22 iolib.syscalls:gettimeofday 06:35:32 Well, they have posix extensions. 06:36:05 osicat-posix:gettimeofday 06:36:32 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 06:38:14 stassats: Thank you! 06:40:58 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 06:41:23 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 06:42:19 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:43:59 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 06:45:49 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:47:48 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:48:05 sellout [~greg@gar31-3-82-234-48-135.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 06:48:09 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 06:48:13 -!- cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: 'bye.] 06:48:43 cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 06:49:19 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:49:48 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 06:50:58 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 06:53:08 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.92.172.158] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:54:13 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:55:40 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:55:45 good morning 06:57:29 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 06:59:56 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 07:00:04 -!- manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:00:05 hello mvilleneuve 07:00:24 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest6653 07:03:39 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:03:42 ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 07:05:31 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 07:09:06 fiveop [~fiveop@erft-4d07f482.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:09:13 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-wgaaovrwxulkoyph] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:10:26 relcomp [~chatzilla@pc92-e03-3.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE] has joined #lisp 07:15:44 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Changing host] 07:15:44 tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #lisp 07:16:10 hdurer`` [~hdurer@lo4.cfw-a-gci.london.yahoo.com] has joined #lisp 07:16:27 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@adsl-99-148-30-127.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:19:33 -!- Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:28:10 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:29:06 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 07:29:55 jmbr_ [~jmbr@vpn130.vpn.ucm.es] has joined #lisp 07:32:19 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@149.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:33:06 *rlpowell* accidentally asks sbcl for (apropos "(") 07:33:42 lambert [~lambert@85.69.145.12] has joined #lisp 07:34:48 *relcomp* deliberately asks sbcl for (apropos "(") an has a good laugh. 07:34:52 d 07:35:13 -!- lambert [~lambert@85.69.145.12] has quit [Client Quit] 07:36:00 Zik [~lambert@85.69.145.12] has joined #lisp 07:37:17 relcomp, rlpowell: nice find (-: 07:37:42 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-sioihwtlqqaqwgtt] has joined #lisp 07:39:23 -!- Guest6908 is now known as kloeri 07:41:20 :) 07:42:03 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-193-109.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 07:42:15 Try (apropos ""), too. 07:42:30 adu [~ajr@softbank220043138128.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 07:42:34 Heh. 07:49:28 -!- mtd [~martin@ops-13.xades.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:51:52 also, heh. (defmacro || (&rest rest) `(or ,@rest)) 07:52:41 -!- cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: 'bye.] 07:53:09 cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 07:53:55 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:56:26 levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 07:58:54 OK, let's make our own C: 07:58:55 (defmacro |void| (name (&rest args) &body body) `(defun ,name (,@args) ,@body (values))) 07:58:57 Who works on the readtable? 07:59:15 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 07:59:35 -!- cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 08:00:17 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.161.218] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:00:21 cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has joined #lisp 08:04:20 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@erft-4d07f482.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 08:05:02 -!- Guest6653 [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 08:08:22 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 08:09:37 -!- moocow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:09:56 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 08:14:12 hlavaty [~user@77-22-102-45-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:19:08 blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 08:20:13 -!- aja [~aja@unaffiliated/aja] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:24:37 bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has joined #lisp 08:24:41 -!- aoh_ is now known as aoh 08:26:08 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 08:27:04 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:28:43 fiveop [~fiveop@dfn84.rz.tu-ilmenau.de] has joined #lisp 08:30:21 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 08:30:49 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest4274 08:32:26 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:34:30 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 08:37:54 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.11] 08:38:22 Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 08:40:10 lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 08:42:13 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 08:44:39 zomgbie [~jesus@chello212186106204.11.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 08:47:07 xan_ [~xan@145.52.240.3] has joined #lisp 08:47:12 fisxoj [~fisxoj@145.52.240.60] has joined #lisp 08:47:26 -!- codewad [~codewad@c-24-17-171-213.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:49:53 codewad [~codewad@c-24-17-171-213.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:50:58 -!- codewad [~codewad@c-24-17-171-213.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:51:13 codewad [~codewad@c-24-17-171-213.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:51:17 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.know.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:51:30 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 08:51:52 moocow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 08:54:15 christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 09:00:32 jmbr__ [~jmbr@149.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 09:00:37 -!- pkhuong [~pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:01:02 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@145.52.240.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:01:03 pkhuong [~pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 09:02:50 -!- jmbr_ [~jmbr@vpn130.vpn.ucm.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:05:15 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl6-96-251.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 09:05:55 daniel__ [~daniel@p5082F191.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:09:29 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082D9F0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:12:32 salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 09:12:43 loxs [~loxs@213.169.45.106] has joined #lisp 09:13:20 anyone here writing XMPP stuff in CL? 09:13:32 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:14:58 -!- rootzlevel [~hpd@91-66-217-25-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:16:16 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:16:51 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:18:51 rootzlevel [~hpd@91-66-216-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:21:59 fisxoj [~fisxoj@145.52.240.3] has joined #lisp 09:23:02 loxs: I wrote a jabber client some 6 years ago 09:23:54 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:26:02 -!- xan_ [~xan@145.52.240.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:26:32 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.27] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:27:12 marienz [~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz] has joined #lisp 09:27:23 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-193-109.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 09:27:53 sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.161.218] has joined #lisp 09:29:18 ost, I'm evaluating the possibility to use Lisp for my project. It's basically going to be a XMPP server component. I am wondering how much will I lose for not using some language that has solid XMPP libraries (like python) 09:29:55 I don't very much like the idea of writing xml parsers, implementing the xmpp protocol itself etc. 09:30:28 why? that's fun 09:30:53 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 09:30:59 well, right at the moment, for me the fun is to write my component logic (and I don't have all the time in the world) 09:30:59 xml parsers should already exist 09:32:52 loxs: I had a basic working web client with a roster, an input box and a chat log at about 400 loc 09:32:56 (and of course there is the fact that I have never used lisp :)) 09:32:59 potatishandlarn [potatishan@c-b21e6799-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 09:33:15 ost, is it opensource? 09:33:16 loxs: then go with Python =) 09:33:36 loxs: it doesn't exist anymore 09:34:14 well, I've hit some hard boundaries of the python language. I think I'm starting to dislike it a little :) 09:35:29 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@145.52.240.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:35:38 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:36:51 would be nice to have something small for reference when learning lisp. Large complete projects tend to be quite hard to gasp by beginners 09:37:08 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 09:39:32 -!- b4|hraban [~b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:40:34 I'm really wondering why there isn't a big diversity of lisp libraries. Is it really so easy to hack your own support for feature X? 09:41:14 or is it the fact that lisp tends to attract different kind of programmers (writing different kind of programs) than python? 09:41:29 don't you guys write web? :) 09:41:32 debes [~debes@212.126.215.62] has joined #lisp 09:42:12 loxs: I think your assumption is false. there is a big diversity of lisp libraries 09:43:06 arbscht, well, there isn't THAT big diversity :) 09:43:18 what is "THAT big" to you? 09:44:11 well, I don't seem to find a single library for writing xmpp components. Python has several "big" projects 09:44:50 I don't seem to find web frameworks like django/pylons/flask etc. Which are really big projects with healthy community 09:44:59 there are xmpp libraries in Lisp. I don't think they are excellent, but if you know both xmpp and Lisp, you should be able to improve on them. 09:45:15 I don't know lisp (yet). Only XMPP :) 09:45:38 and I feel a bit odd to have to modify my first project's libraries :) 09:45:57 -!- Guest4274 [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 09:46:08 loxs: then you are not looking very hard 09:47:09 loxs: cliki.net, cl-user.net and common-lisp.net have collections of libraries, including many web libraries 09:48:39 OK, which one of them would be the "beginners web toolkit" or "the de-facto standard one"? 09:49:34 -!- ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:49:56 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-94-23.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:50:14 loxs: none 09:50:30 (I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just saying that maybe common lisp needs something of this kind) 09:50:51 minion: tell loxs about before 09:50:52 loxs: please see before: Before you start learning Lisp and fixing all the wrongs in it, read this: http://abhishek.geek.nz/docs/lisp-answers/ . It will save you, and us, much frustration 09:50:54 like is Django for python. or Rails for ruby 09:52:44 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl6-96-251.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 09:54:37 -!- Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:54:40 Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has joined #lisp 09:55:10 -!- jmbr__ is now known as jmbr 09:55:34 arbscht, I agree that I am not the person who has the rights to "fix" whatever. I'm just a newbie in wonderland :) 09:55:39 fisxoj [~fisxoj@145.52.240.60] has joined #lisp 09:55:46 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@145.52.240.60] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:56:17 and I'm not saying that there is something wrong with lisp. Just that it needs some "flagman", although unofficial 09:56:39 canes [~canes@109.129.183.213] has joined #lisp 09:59:21 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:59:45 loxs: be aware that this discussion happens about once a week with a different flagman, so most people here won't be very excited about it. 10:00:11 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.63.9.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 10:00:11 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.63.9.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:00:38 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.58.144] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:00:50 xan_ [~xan@145.52.240.3] has joined #lisp 10:02:08 -!- canes [~canes@109.129.183.213] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:02:32 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@149.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:02:46 quack [~quack@bl15-115-189.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 10:04:24 dv- [~dv@unaffiliated/dv-] has joined #lisp 10:08:56 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:09:18 -!- quack [~quack@bl15-115-189.dsl.telepac.pt] has left #lisp 10:09:23 quack [~quack@bl15-115-189.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 10:10:02 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:10:45 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #lisp 10:11:51 fisxoj [~fisxoj@145.52.240.60] has joined #lisp 10:12:32 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.161.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:19:31 manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 10:24:44 ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 10:25:49 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:30:25 obneq [~lukas@178-83-215-239.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 10:31:07 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:31:07 -!- ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:31:10 ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 10:31:59 cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has joined #lisp 10:32:50 e66 [~chatzilla@180.149.8.127] has joined #lisp 10:33:10 Hello 10:33:35 Does LISP Support mmap in call. I am using SBCL in windows. 10:34:10 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@p4ae269.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:34:56 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@chello212186106204.11.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:36:43 -!- xinming_ [~hyy@122.238.77.0] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:36:45 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.113.138.195] has joined #lisp 10:36:58 sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.161.218] has joined #lisp 10:37:17 mmap in call? 10:38:19 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:39:28 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.249.41] has joined #lisp 10:41:08 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@145.52.240.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:42:55 zomgbie [~jesus@mk090152169161.a1.net] has joined #lisp 10:43:33 e66: try (apropos "MMAP"). What does it say? 10:44:12 schmrkc: mmap() call. sorry for the "in" 10:48:03 I have a program using LTK that compiles and loads without error, but when I run it I get this error: "There is no class named FRAME." Any idea what is causing this? 10:48:43 -!- xan_ [~xan@145.52.240.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:49:41 xinming [~hyy@122.238.77.0] has joined #lisp 10:49:52 timor [~timor@port-92-195-146-167.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 10:50:53 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@mk090152169161.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:51:18 -!- 92AAAT9PW [~chiiph@dumbledore.com.ar] has quit [Quit: bye bye] 10:51:36 chiiph [~chiiph@gentoo/developer/chiiph] has joined #lisp 10:52:19 zomgbie [~jesus@chello212186106204.11.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 10:52:37 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 10:53:35 e66_ [~chatzilla@180.149.8.127] has joined #lisp 10:54:14 Spewns [~jake@97-92-222-240.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 10:55:48 -!- e66 [~chatzilla@180.149.8.127] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:56:02 -!- e66_ is now known as e66 10:57:00 Never mind. I figured out the problem. 10:58:32 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 10:59:01 relcomp: The result of (apropos "mmap") is MMAP. and result of (apropos "MMAP") was empty. But later (apropos "MMAP") showed MMAP 11:00:10 I'd think you could ffi to glibc and mmap 11:00:42 schmrkc: what does it mean? I dont have mmap? 11:01:01 schmrkc: what is "ffi to glibc" ? 11:01:55 I dont know if it has exactly mmap. I'd think maybe it has something like mmap. 11:02:05 or you could just call the mmap in libc I figured. 11:02:21 Whatcho need the mmap for? 11:03:02 schmrkc: in windows mmap doesn't exists, but MapViewOfFile api call exists which is same as mmap 11:03:12 hmmm ok. 11:03:17 so use that then I guess. 11:03:21 schmrkc: mmap is used to map a file in memory to read 11:03:42 Yeees. I'm just wondering what YOU needed it for. 11:03:42 schmrkc: but does SBCL use MapViewOfFile? 11:04:05 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:04:12 schmrkc: i need to read a 300Mb binary file for random access 11:04:17 I haven't ever used sbcl on windows, but can't you just call that from windows libc? 11:04:25 mslibc :D 11:04:30 cools. 11:05:11 I can call it from win32. But how do I call it from LISP. The code base is in LISP 11:05:38 e66: standard stream functions will let you set the file position where you want. 11:06:07 e66: I'd think you could just read it all into memory from a stream. If you really must have all the 300mb in memory :) 11:06:07 Xach: I know. But I want mmap. 11:07:21 READ-SEQUENCE perhaps. 11:07:25 My problem is not to read a big file. My problem is "how do I use mmap/MapViewOfFile in windows" 11:08:00 e66: I'd think you just use cffi or some such. 11:08:00 msdn? 11:08:22 pmd: I am using LISP 11:09:03 What's wrong with just putting the whole thing in a big arse array anyway? 11:09:30 schmrkc: multiple processes can not handle it. 11:09:38 e66: schmrkc just suggested cffi, take a look at it. or, look at the foreign function implementation of the lisp you're using, but cffi may be a safer bet when you need to switch implementations 11:09:54 pmd: He's on SBCL. :) 11:09:58 e66: oh ok. 11:10:56 I'm trying to install cffi with asdf-install, but it's failing. log -> http://paste.lisp.org/display/112854 I keep skipping the key check, but one prompt seems to be broken 11:12:16 jmbr [~jmbr@149.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 11:15:08 dv: it looks like you should invoke restart number one in the last debug hit. 11:16:59 Then I get a compile error about a missing package called MOP 11:17:38 dv-: could you paste that too? 11:20:04 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.161.218] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:20:24 lhz: http://paste.lisp.org/display/112855 11:23:08 sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.161.218] has joined #lisp 11:23:32 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-141-185.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:23:37 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-141-185.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:23:40 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.161.218] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:23:57 dv-: start again 11:24:20 should I delete .sbcl? 11:24:40 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.113.138.195] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:24:47 dv-: I got the same issue by just doing (asdf-install:install "lift") .. I suggest you edit that file and press restart (it's just an test suite not need for cffi anyway). 11:27:22 which file? lift.asd? 11:27:32 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-146-167.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:28:10 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:28:20 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-129-171.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:28:57 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:29:22 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:30:31 dv-: In your case it is /home/dv/.sbcl/site/lift/dev/utilities.lisp that is broken. There could be a simpler way to shunt lift. 11:31:03 -!- manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:31:26 dv-: no, just asdf-install cffi again. 11:31:26 you don't have to shunt anything. 11:34:36 wait, what am I supposed to be before retrying to install cffi? 11:35:00 -!- sellout [~greg@gar31-3-82-234-48-135.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 11:35:04 Nothing. 11:35:14 the fix for that problem is do the same thing again. 11:35:16 I tried that and it didn't work 11:35:21 What happened? 11:35:30 same error 11:35:44 with (asdf-install:install 'cffi)? 11:35:48 yeah 11:35:56 although I decided .sbcl 11:36:01 you decided? 11:36:08 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c122-106-121-61.rivrw6.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 11:36:15 before you said that I didn't have to 11:36:17 Ok, deleting .sbcl is not the same as doing nothing. Do nothing. 11:36:30 run the same thing twice without any changes. 11:37:28 Yay, new error 11:37:44 progress! 11:38:44 e66: (I'm back from lunch now). Does the apropos "mmap" result say something like (fbound)? 11:38:52 Xach: http://paste.lisp.org/+2F2X 11:39:40 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-125-58.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:39:41 dv-: you should now be able to use cffi 11:39:53 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-197-65.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 11:39:59 didn't it fail? 11:40:06 not in the worst way. 11:40:17 *Xach* shakes fist at asdf-install 11:41:41 sellout [~greg@gar31-3-82-234-48-135.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:42:10 -!- loxs [~loxs@213.169.45.106] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:44:36 relcomp: no It says "MMap" only 11:44:45 tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has joined #lisp 11:44:53 -!- ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:45:38 -!- JuanDaugherty [~juan@mobile-166-137-138-114.mycingular.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:45:53 Then you don't have mmap with sbcl on windows. 11:45:55 Here it looks like: 11:45:57 CL-USER> (apropos "MMAP") 11:45:59 SB-POSIX:MMAP (fbound) 11:47:05 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:48:55 e66: you want MapViewOfFile 11:51:40 ost: Yeah 11:51:57 relcomp: I have a sb-poxix direcotry. 11:52:11 e66: what are you going to use this for? 11:53:13 JuanDaugherty [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:53:21 Xach: to map a file in memory 11:53:35 e66: to what end? 11:53:52 OsamaBinWOG [~OsamaBinW@24-177-10-101.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 11:53:56 -!- WOG [~OsamaBinW@24-177-10-101.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:53:56 LISP end 11:54:03 didn't get you actully 11:54:39 e66: what will you do after you are able to map a file in memory? how will you make use of that ability? 11:54:51 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:56:55 I'll read it from memory randomly. 11:56:59 And it' 11:57:07 it'll be faster to do it. 11:57:20 xan_ [~xan@145.52.241.98] has joined #lisp 11:57:28 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:58:19 You could have been done by now. 11:59:08 specbot: file-position 11:59:13 davazp [~user@83.49.73.28] has joined #lisp 12:00:44 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:00:57 Guthur [~michael@host86-148-29-214.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:02:36 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-206-24.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:04:47 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043138128.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 12:06:16 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.113.138.195] has joined #lisp 12:07:35 is there some variable where sbcl looks for packages? how do I load a .asd file from the current dir? 12:08:23 Rearden [~John@209-217-211-155.northland.net] has joined #lisp 12:08:55 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-sioihwtlqqaqwgtt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:09:12 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-qpmgpplwmceunvqw] has joined #lisp 12:09:27 -!- xan_ [~xan@145.52.241.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:11:18 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 12:12:56 ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 12:14:02 dv-: (let ((asdf:*central-registry* (append asdf:*central-registry* (list "./")))) (your-asdf-load-op)) 12:14:59 -!- ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:17:08 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-206-24.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:17:37 -!- sellout [~greg@gar31-3-82-234-48-135.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 12:18:46 ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 12:20:12 Oh, no. I'm done with asdf, I think. I'm trying to load the xe2 package with require xe2, but it doesn't work 12:22:15 stephenry [~user@cpc2-grnk1-0-0-cust713.renf.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 12:23:26 dv-: here is my xe2 loader: http://paste.lisp.org/+2F2Z 12:23:35 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:23:57 what is xe2? 12:24:18 A game 12:24:36 +engine 12:26:12 adu [~ajr@softbank220043138128.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 12:26:51 xan_ [~xan@145.52.240.3] has joined #lisp 12:27:41 Demosthenes [~demo@154.sub-75-194-236.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 12:30:36 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:30:42 ok, so i'm having some stupid slime error. i hit C-c C-k to compile the whole file i'm working on, and though i defined a pacakge and the repl is in that package, it can't find any of the functions until i manually C-c C-c on each 12:31:24 Demosthenes: does your file start with (in-package #:your-repl-package)? 12:31:38 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:32:53 i bet i forget the # 12:33:11 the # doesn't matter. you could use any symbol. 12:33:15 interned or not 12:34:14 yeah, my first two lines are defpackage :mypackage, and in-package :mypackate 12:34:51 and the first slime compilation error says "unknown location" 12:35:09 You didn't mention a compilation error...what is it? 12:35:11 i put my asdf stuff back at the top to load prereqs, no change. 12:35:15 Pasting it might help. And the file. 12:35:30 all style-warnings about every function in the file not found 12:35:35 -!- NNshag [user@lns-bzn-52-82-65-66-128.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:35:40 I don't recommend putting asdf stuff into a source file. 12:35:41 i figure its some big stupid error, not anything subtle 12:35:53 blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 12:36:08 I recommend pasting it. 12:36:21 into http://paste.lisp.org 12:36:28 Demostehnes: Just to make it sure. The typo :mypackage vs. :mypackate is not in the file? 12:36:38 that was in my haste ;] 12:36:43 the file's correct 12:36:48 my repl's even in-package 12:37:22 http://pastebin.com/b8dDkYbm 12:37:53 sellout [~greg@gar31-3-82-234-48-135.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:38:03 and on a fresh sbcl, M-x slime, (in-package :snapscrape), C-c C-k gives me style warnings for every function in the file 12:38:31 -!- Rearden [~John@209-217-211-155.northland.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:38:42 Paste that too. 12:39:26 http://pastebin.com/RM1j6dua 12:39:58 i can whittle down the error list by going to each function and C-c C-c 12:40:17 Demosthenes: The only real problem is the one with the "error:" 12:40:27 Demosthenes: you must define the function used in macroexpansion at compile time with eval-when. 12:40:35 CAT-SYMBOLS, that is. 12:40:55 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 12:41:51 Rearden [~John@209-217-211-157.northland.net] has joined #lisp 12:42:37 -!- davazp [~user@83.49.73.28] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:43:09 ok, so i wrapped the two cat functions in (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :execute) ...), and i still get errors ;] 12:43:23 Paste them. 12:43:33 oh, you also need :load-toplevel 12:44:07 that was it 12:44:15 DanLentz [~danlentz@c-68-32-54-29.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:45:06 thanks! 12:46:01 Oh, shoot. I didn't check your incident support balance before helping. Can you re-up for another Gold support package? 12:47:00 ;] 12:47:00 schoppenhauer [~senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 12:47:20 sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.161.218] has joined #lisp 12:47:29 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-206-24.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:47:42 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.161.218] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:47:49 actually, i'm good for steak dinner's if i'm ever nearby 12:48:27 i don't suppose you're in buffalo? 12:49:07 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:49:17 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@154.sub-75-194-236.myvzw.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:50:31 prima_lux [~user@95.158.0.252] has joined #lisp 12:51:49 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-206-24.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:55:53 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-qpmgpplwmceunvqw] has left #lisp 12:57:58 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 13:00:00 -!- tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:01:56 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043138128.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 13:02:02 asarch [~asarch@187.132.135.137] has joined #lisp 13:02:53 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dfn84.rz.tu-ilmenau.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 13:03:39 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:04:48 for someone coming from Ruby and using Mac OS X and wants to use Common Lisp for some command-line experimentation, what tool(s) do you guys recommend? 13:05:24 I'd suggest you get clbuild and sbcl, 13:05:36 unfortunately lisp isn't very command-line friendly 13:05:40 really?? 13:05:42 at least on a plain tty 13:05:52 that seems very unusual 13:05:55 it really works best in emacs & slime 13:06:11 comes with accurate completion and a nice paren balancer 13:06:19 hmm 13:06:29 *steven_t* <3 vim though :'( 13:06:35 plus history, a world-class inspector, and fantastic debugger 13:06:45 no idea if there are any vim plugins that work half as well as slime 13:07:49 ok guess ill give in and learn emacs too 13:08:14 ive heard Clozure CL is a good lisp impl for mac, any of yall use it? 13:08:38 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:08:43 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-206-24.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:08:44 antifuchs: 'fantastic' is perhaps strong for the SLIME debugger 13:08:59 sorry, I like it a lot 13:09:03 when various bits of it haven't decided to stop working, perhaps :) 13:09:08 antifuchs: ... and I'm still having a fantastically hard time learning how to do stepping in Slime's debugger. 13:09:10 fantastic, compared to gdb, certainly. 13:09:17 -!- ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:09:22 or to the one in ruby (: 13:09:22 (the step debugger, IME, is particularly likely to randomly go on strike) 13:09:52 loxs [~loxs@213.169.45.106] has joined #lisp 13:09:57 yeah, when I say debugger debugger, I don't usually refer to the stepper (: 13:10:08 as a rule, do all libraries work in all implementations of CL? 13:10:22 Would random keystrokes help? 13:10:33 loxs: No, but much more so than, say, scheme. 13:11:20 #+ / #- make it much easier to port libraries that use non-portable features. 13:12:06 relcomp: in the demos that I gave under sbcl in a high-debug setting, "s" worked (: 13:12:33 but that's all... I tend to stare at the backtraces and inspector, then swear a bit, then the bug goes away (: 13:12:43 this may be dependent on precise version of sbcl and slime, though :) 13:12:50 sure 13:13:01 like I said, the stepper doesn't count for me 13:13:12 *rsynnott* doesn't actually use step debugging that much anywhere, but there are special circumstances where I find it very handy 13:14:08 -!- sellout [~greg@gar31-3-82-234-48-135.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 13:14:55 antifuchs: Swearing sounds good. Sometimes my logging code is even longer than the actual working code. I then swear at the abscense of a stepper. 13:15:37 relcomp: try and macro it up. And find some way to leave it around for future use. 13:18:03 relcomp: also, TRACE is very helpful. 13:18:22 jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-49-141.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:18:25 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 13:18:30 relcomp: "absence" 13:18:53 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest52477 13:18:55 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 13:19:34 fe[nl]ix: Yes. I was unsure and too lazy to look it up. Thanks. 13:19:59 -!- Guest52477 [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 13:20:38 antifuchs: In my current problem TRACE is not helpful. I am currently working with paper and pencil. 13:22:03 relcomp: then I'll postulate that a stepper won't help much either (-: 13:22:41 -!- quack [~quack@bl15-115-189.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 13:23:37 -!- ``Erik [Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:23:55 antifuchs: In this case you are ruight. But still I miss a stepper. 13:23:56 I started learning Lisp with AutoLISP. They had a fantastic stepper in their IDE. 13:24:10 I believe you (: 13:24:14 *right 13:24:27 rrice [~rrice@adsl-99-164-35-250.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:24:34 sometimes, it would be helpful for me, too... but in these cases, I would be better off to just use eli with allegro (: 13:24:50 relcomp: commercial Lisps have steppers but I don't know if they would fit your needs 13:25:34 I also like to use (break) with some conditions wrapped around. It is somewhat like VS's conditional breakpoints 13:26:03 -!- christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:27:28 christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 13:27:48 I know: (declare (optimize (debug 3) ... ) and use break. I had a keyword argument &key (break any-default-you-like) and did (when break (break)) to start stepping. 13:28:01 blandest: um, (when (your-condition) (break));? 13:28:08 ah 13:28:11 sorry, misunderstood (: 13:29:05 antifuchs: yes, something like that 13:29:25 xinming_ [~hyy@115.223.131.8] has joined #lisp 13:29:32 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-126-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 13:30:54 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 13:31:48 -!- xinming [~hyy@122.238.77.0] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:35:43 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-gysolimyvypduetg] has joined #lisp 13:35:58 sellout [~greg@gar31-3-82-234-48-135.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:36:47 konr [~user@201.82.129.247] has joined #lisp 13:36:53 -!- DanLentz [~danlentz@c-68-32-54-29.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:37:25 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-206-24.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:38:52 s0ber [~s0ber@111-251-148-150.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:39:29 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:39:55 -!- s0ber_ [~s0ber@111-240-219-77.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:40:01 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:40:18 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:26 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:40:41 -!- sellout [~greg@gar31-3-82-234-48-135.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:42:11 -!- xan_ [~xan@145.52.240.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:43:29 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:44:58 Lis [~Lis@business-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:58 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-125-58.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 13:44:59 sellout [~greg@gar31-3-82-234-48-135.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:45:03 TheEnd2012 [~TheEnd201@65.196.40.254] has joined #lisp 13:47:56 xan_ [~xan@145.52.240.3] has joined #lisp 13:48:09 Allegro has a stepper, but I find that I've pretty much given up using it. I find now that fancier versions of trace (e.g., with :inside) or, at worst, ADVISE give me what I need for that kind of exploratory surgery. 13:48:39 e66_ [~chatzilla@180.149.8.127] has joined #lisp 13:49:07 Often then I simulate a stepper by evaluating expressions in the debugger repl (this is why I haven't been able to wean myself from ELI and use SLIME). 13:49:10 -!- e66 [~chatzilla@180.149.8.127] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:49:21 -!- e66_ is now known as e66 13:50:07 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:16 the brand new stepping stuff Duane and Willem talked about at ILC last year seemed quite interesting 13:50:59 -!- ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has left #lisp 13:51:16 ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 13:51:23 -!- stephenry [~user@cpc2-grnk1-0-0-cust713.renf.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:51:29 -!- ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:51:52 -!- Rearden [~John@209-217-211-157.northland.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:52:03 lichtblau: I don't recall if that was really stepping so much as a special kind of debugger that could work in two dimensions --- conventional call-stack dimension + a macro expansion dimension. Yes, really cool. 13:52:09 Rearden [~John@209-217-211-155.northland.net] has joined #lisp 13:54:06 Aferlak12 [~Aferlak12@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 13:56:19 -!- Zik [~lambert@85.69.145.12] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 13:57:26 that would be really useful. 13:59:52 pkhuong: Yes, it was really mindblowing --- just the thing you need for debugging a DSL. We've probably all been in that place where we want a debugger that corresponds to the DSL's structure, and doesn't bleed in details about its lisp implementation. 14:00:01 ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 14:00:08 Duane's thing seemed to give us that. Really awesome. 14:00:40 *Xach* puts up his slides, such as they are 14:00:58 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.113.138.195] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:01:05 *sykopomp* already read them! 14:01:13 *sykopomp* wants the t-shirt. 14:01:17 rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 14:01:26 rpg: that, or we a debugger *in the dsl* (: 14:02:20 -!- hdurer`` [~hdurer@lo4.cfw-a-gci.london.yahoo.com] has quit [Changing host] 14:02:20 hdurer`` [~hdurer@pdpc/supporter/active/hdurer] has joined #lisp 14:02:38 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 14:02:55 minion: What does DSL mean? 14:02:56 Displeasedly Scouting Landolphia 14:02:56 -!- xan_ [~xan@145.52.240.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:03:28 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 14:03:56 -!- schoppenhauer [~senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:05:15 relcomp: Domain Specifik Language 14:05:57 Davse_Bamse: OK. So minion is wrong? :) 14:06:01 -!- billstclair_ [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:06:31 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:06:31 <_3b`> minion: are you wrong? 14:06:32 maybe 14:06:46 X) 14:07:02 billstclair_ [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 14:07:16 hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-109-205.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 14:07:16 minion: Wat does DSL mean? 14:07:18 you speak nonsense 14:07:24 minion: What does DSL mean? 14:07:25 Would you /please/ stop playing with me? 3 messages in 52 seconds is too many. 14:07:39 OliverUv: see my response 14:07:42 yeah 14:08:02 I know, I just added the term to minion and wanted to see if it worked 14:08:22 but apparently the private messages also count toward the spam limit 14:08:31 minion: Are you angry? 14:08:32 yes 14:08:34 haha 14:08:48 minion: What does DSL mean? 14:08:49 Driveway Sinuslike Lordliness 14:08:49 -!- billstclair_ is now known as billstclair 14:08:56 no! I told you what it meant! 14:09:03 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Changing host] 14:09:03 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 14:09:13 <_3b`> no, you told what it /is/ not what it /means/ :) 14:09:23 <_3b`> minion: tell OliverUv about DSL 14:09:23 OliverUv: DSL: Domain Specific Language 14:09:26 ah 14:09:27 great 14:10:26 minion: What is DSL? 14:10:27 what would a bot like me know about dsl ? 14:10:29 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-49-141.iburst.co.za] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:10:43 there doesn't seem to be any way of adding acronyms 14:10:46 only terms 14:11:15 <_3b`> right, minion just makes up answers for acronym expansions 14:11:37 what, minion lies 14:12:01 I already figured out, that minon tells nonsense when asked "What does FOO mean?" Seems to be a funny feature. 14:13:02 Xach: Where is your slides 14:13:38 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 14:14:04 -!- bgs000 [cheshire@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-wxtfizlxiddhysps] has quit [Changing host] 14:14:04 bgs000 [cheshire@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 14:14:04 -!- bgs000 [cheshire@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Changing host] 14:14:04 bgs000 [cheshire@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-wxtfizlxiddhysps] has joined #lisp 14:14:11 minion: What does relcomp mean? 14:14:12 Rub Equidistance Limberham Crickey Odor Manoscope Pemphigus 14:14:24 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 14:14:31 I thought so. 14:15:25 Zhivago: It means NOT reliable computing. 14:15:38 -!- OsamaBinWOG [~OsamaBinW@24-177-10-101.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Quit: WAAAAAAAAGH!!] 14:18:08 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 14:20:39 tayloj [~tayloj@clip-point-02.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 14:20:53 urandom__ [~user@p548A6F2E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:21:45 postamar [~postamar@x-132-204-33-101.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 14:22:24 Guthur: twitter.com/quicklisp has a link 14:22:38 davazp [~user@83.49.73.28] has joined #lisp 14:23:39 -!- postamar [~postamar@x-132-204-33-101.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 14:24:14 -!- ike` [~user@c-71-56-115-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:25:09 Xach: presentation looks good 14:25:12 in fact, quicklisp looks good 14:25:18 and I want to use it (: 14:26:42 minion: why do you lie? 14:26:43 i don't know anything about why i lie - you need to ask my master about that 14:27:07 LIAR! 14:27:25 fiveop [~fiveop@erft-4d07f482.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 14:27:42 minion can't be coerced. 14:27:50 -!- loxs [~loxs@213.169.45.106] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:28:21 minion: tell bfein about minion. 14:28:22 bfein: please look at minion: minion is an IRC robot (who prefers the term "electronically composed.") For online help, try /msg minion help Minion is hosted at common-lisp.net and is usually connected to the #lisp IRC channel. http://www.cliki.net/minion 14:32:52 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 14:33:41 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-197-65.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 14:33:42 _ace4016_ [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-197-65.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:34:00 <_3b`> ah, i guess if i'm going to have a separate hash to store the circular objects i'm writing out, it would help to actually write out that hash too 14:34:13 -!- _ace4016_ is now known as ace4016 14:34:21 Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 14:34:21 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-109-205.revip2.asianet.co.th] has left #lisp 14:35:15 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:36:01 KevinKLine [4a2c4ab1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.44.74.177] has joined #lisp 14:36:15 How good is bobot++; I know it uses scheme (a Lisp dialet), but how powerful is it. 14:36:23 I am thinking of adding it my channel. 14:36:28 And wanted to make sure it didn't have holes in it. 14:36:44 I don't know. Maybe someone has written down stuff about it somewhere that you can read. 14:37:42 Do you, Zhivago, or anybody else for that matter know of any good bots that use Lisp as an extension scripting language ... 14:38:05 <_3b`> minion is written in lisp, does that count? 14:38:18 KevinKLine: this channel is for common lisp. There's a couple of CL-specific bots out there. 14:38:24 minion being the most (in)famous. 14:38:29 I will check it out. 14:38:38 Where can I download minion from :-) 14:38:44 I believe he's bundled with the cl-irc sources? 14:38:59 <_3b`> minion: tell KevinKLine about minion 14:39:00 KevinKLine: please see minion: minion is an IRC robot (who prefers the term "electronically composed.") For online help, try /msg minion help Minion is hosted at common-lisp.net and is usually connected to the #lisp IRC channel. http://www.cliki.net/minion 14:39:39 Thank you, minion. 14:40:34 Xach: How about having quicklisp force :version cookies into ASD files? 14:40:53 KevinKLine: minion is written in lisp, but he isn't exactly like other big-time irc bots (like supybot) 14:40:54 minion: Can you be used as a bot to do hostile take overs. 14:40:54 i'm not a bot. i prefer the term ``electronically composed''. 14:41:14 Xach: Or I'd even be interested in helping you infiltrate ASDF to make this happen somehow. The current state of "get some dang version and just hope it works" is really deeply undesirable. 14:41:52 minion: can I set you to boot java users out of my channel because only Lisp programmers are smart, jave programmers are morons. 14:41:52 <_3b`> argh, still get (let ((x '#3=(a . #3#))) (eq (cdr x) x)) wrong though :( 14:41:53 lisp is the glue that binds the variables together 14:42:07 -!- e66 [~chatzilla@180.149.8.127] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:42:12 KevinKLine: I used bobot++ once and it was OK. It is shipped with Debian and the Debian guys are very particular with security issues. 14:42:13 So, supposedly, bobot++ is secure. 14:42:44 relcomp: good so I will start using bobot++ 14:44:06 -!- KevinKLine [4a2c4ab1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.44.74.177] has quit [Quit: "goes to compile lisp bots to create a trollbot that will harass trolls on my channel"] 14:44:19 Isn't it more polite to refer to minion as "biologically challenged"? 14:44:48 <_3b`> not particularly 14:44:57 <_3b`> that would imply lack of biology is a weakness 14:44:59 you make it sound like robots have a handicap 14:45:04 KevinKline: But don't bleme me for problems. I only gave my opinion. 14:45:22 which is utterly untrue, ref. the "high speed robot hand" video (: 14:45:40 rpg: Aren't we electronically challenged? 14:46:31 *_3b`* is circular literal externalization challenged :/ 14:46:48 qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has joined #lisp 14:49:24 relcomp: I think we're actually semiconductor challenged, not electronically challenged. 14:50:06 _3b`: try (eq (cadr x) x) 14:50:33 _3b`: Forget what I said.. was premature. 14:51:01 Phaedrus_ [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.165.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 14:51:34 -!- Phaedrus_ [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.165.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:52:12 -!- davazp [~user@83.49.73.28] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:52:41 -!- abend [~alx@delta.muted.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:52:45 manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:52:46 Draggor [~Draggor@adsl-99-141-203-210.dsl.emhril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:53:16 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.165.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:53:43 <_3b`> ah, i guess i haven't actually stored the cons by the time i try to put it into the cdr 14:53:57 ugggh 14:54:17 damn table things in clim 14:54:29 What's up with teh tables? 14:54:33 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-1-191.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:54:52 i have to put (formatting-table (pane) ...) around calls to (formatting-cell (pane) ...) 14:55:08 and I put the things I want to display in the ... of the formatting-cell calls 14:55:29 Right. 14:55:38 I seem to recall having some headaches here :) 14:55:47 hi _3b 14:55:47 manic12, memo from gigamonkey: Mark sent me an outline for a CQ article today. Thanks! 14:56:03 I want to create a macro that lets me say "put this body into X cells, with N cells per row" 14:56:05 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-94-23.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:56:28 but if I want the bodies in the cells to be different I'm going to have to re-implement do 14:56:32 or something 14:56:55 I think I thought of a better solution, but it requires me to build all the cell bodies before-hand 14:57:02 which would require another macro 14:57:02 <_3b`> ok, special cased conses that contain themselves directly, time to rebuild the tests... 14:57:14 OliverUv: Sounds like fun ;) 14:57:16 <_3b`> manic12: 'lo 14:57:41 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:57:53 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:58:01 woot, installed sbcl 14:58:02 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.113.138.195] has joined #lisp 14:58:03 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:58:09 it has a command line! 14:58:24 schmrkc: Heh, yeah, but CLIM should solve this for me! I don't have much time 14:58:32 So now I will leave the chat and start coding 14:58:43 OliverUv: Best of luck. :) 14:58:44 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@c3po.streamtech.nl] has joined #lisp 14:58:48 thanks 14:59:10 toni [~toni@87-194-42-155.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:59:44 gl4.1 is out 14:59:55 <_3b`> yep 14:59:57 whatever that means 15:00:11 <_3b`> not much for me, don't have a gl4.x card :p 15:00:24 <_3b`> (well, means i need to update the low-level bindings in cl-opengl) 15:00:44 i'm getting one for $110 15:00:51 <_3b`> new extensions for 3.x means a bit more, haven't looked at details though 15:01:24 rpg: I think things can go a long way without anyone actually changing anything. it'll be interesting to see how it evolves if it catches on. 15:01:30 <_3b`> i think i'd have to spend ~200-250 to not lose performance compared to what i have now, not really worth it for as little GL stuff as i do at the moment 15:01:54 Xach: I'm less and less convinced that any library fetch-and-install fixes the problem of people not providing the right metadata. 15:02:07 yeah, i'm not worried about performance at this point, just compliance 15:02:41 *rpg* is just grumpy about being unable to help the guy who couldn't build his asdf libraries on a CLC-insinuated debian system... 15:03:01 anything bigger would heat up my little machine too much 15:03:20 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@c3po.streamtech.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 15:03:44 what are you running on the machine you do cl-opengl on? 15:03:53 WOG [~OsamaBinW@24-177-10-101.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 15:03:56 rpg: quicklisp statically compiles metadata via instrumented asdf and cffi 15:04:09 rpg: then uses that to help the client make install decisions 15:04:22 Xach: Sounds very cool.... 15:04:23 <_3b`> gfx card you mean? nv gtx285 or gtx260m 15:04:29 rpg: did you try it? 15:04:38 if you want to give it a whirl, i'm in #quicklisp too 15:04:43 -!- toni [~toni@87-194-42-155.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:04:48 not nearly done, of course, but it does have a demo 15:05:11 i've got a quadro fx 4600 on this machine, but I also run some cad software 15:05:14 Xach: I'm afraid not --- my lisp coding is all for my job, and so I don't use /any/ installer any more. Install for me is pull source and stick it in domestic version control system. 15:05:35 rpg: oh, there's nothing public. 15:05:36 it's latest driver does gl 3.3 15:06:11 -!- merAch [~none@c-71-199-6-23.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.22 :: www.esnation.com )] 15:06:22 <_3b`> 'test sacla-cons-tests: 699 passed, 15 failed, 8 errored' now, mostly from SETF not calling setf-expanders, not having apply, and not being able to funcall symbols 15:06:39 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@c3po.streamtech.nl] has joined #lisp 15:06:59 i'm still having a bit o trouble with 3bil 15:07:01 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@c3po.streamtech.nl] has left #lisp 15:07:12 merach [~merach@c-71-199-6-23.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:07:22 <_3b`> also a few from not getting generalized booleans correct 15:08:17 Xach: We can't rely on people's haphazard notions of release (or preference to not release), so we just take everything in house and work from there (providing patches upstream, of course). 15:08:21 -!- Davse_Bamse [~davse@82.103.143.161] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:09:19 It's also easier for us to use the svn external mechanism to ensure that everyone gets all the right stuff when they check out. 15:09:41 SVN externals! The perfect lisp library install system! ;-) 15:11:15 rdd` [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 15:11:48 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:11:51 hi all. I have a scenario for hunchentoot that I'm trying to work around. Any tips or advice would be appreciate: .. 15:11:52 3b: I'm having trouble with your use of &environment inside a let 15:12:05 <_3b`> manic12: where is that? 15:12:18 let me pull it up 15:12:36 the scenario is that I want to do something akin to url rewriting, in that I want an equivalency between http://foo.com/bar and http://baz.com/~foo.com/bar 15:12:50 jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:13:11 as far as my code is concerned, this works fine. It's just that now, all of the static and regex file handlers of hunchentoot itself don't properly recognize the imbound urls. 15:13:15 zomgbie_ [~jesus@chello212186106204.11.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 15:13:33 e.g. there is a directory mapped to images in the root ("/images") 15:13:39 doing your own handling is pretty trivial. 15:14:03 you mean instead of using the stock static-file-handlers ? 15:14:27 Shaftoe_: a non-answer from the "you don't really want to do that" department: showing the same content from multiple URLs is not good for you, search-engine wise 15:14:36 (so better use 301 redirects (-:) 15:14:52 Shaftoe_: yeah. the convenience stuff is just for convenience - if they don't do what you need, they're pretty simple things to make. 15:15:25 antifuchs: I know about that. This is a specific thing though, and it has to do with https:// . The bottom line is that the http://foo.com/bar page will never be seen publicly as it is required to be an secure page. 15:15:49 but given that the foo is dynamic, I have to use a static https server and make do with a rewriting scheme 15:15:50 extended-loop 15:16:07 makes sense 15:16:43 Xach: are you recommending I rewrite the create-prefix-dispatcher, create-regex-dispatcher etc functions? or higher up the handler still? 15:16:52 (i.e the acceptor itself) 15:17:01 abend [~alx@67.136.131.11] has joined #lisp 15:17:06 Shaftoe_: writing your own dispatcher may be sufficient. 15:17:32 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:17:55 -!- ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:18:58 timor [~timor@port-92-195-146-167.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 15:19:31 -!- cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:19:53 Xach: Can I try Quicklisp yet? 15:20:06 cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has joined #lisp 15:21:08 <_3b`> manic12: ah, i guess that does expand wrong 15:24:15 <_3b`> manic12: for a temporary fix, might try just removing the &environment keyword from that macro definition (don't think i actually have environments yet anyway) 15:24:28 that's what i did 15:24:52 3bil compiled completely then failed the first attempt to do anything 15:25:19 i haven't had a chance to debug it 15:25:40 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.113.138.195] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:26:15 why does my slime autocomplete with uppercase ? 15:26:27 it's shouting at you 15:26:40 Xach: I mean, can I beta test quicklisp? 15:26:49 you have to read it with a Samuel L Jackson voice. 15:27:47 -!- JuanDaugherty [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:28:07 -!- Aferlak12 [~Aferlak12@64.120.233.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:31:22 -!- asarch [~asarch@187.132.135.137] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:31:39 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.249.41] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:32:22 Shaftoe_: haha 15:32:37 JuanDaugherty [~juan@mobile-166-137-136-027.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 15:32:50 from now on all all-caps output from programs will implicitly be in a Samuel L Jackson voice for me 15:33:06 stephenry [~user@cpc2-grnk1-0-0-cust713.renf.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 15:33:27 asarch [~asarch@187.132.135.137] has joined #lisp 15:34:12 ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:31 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 15:35:26 revel0 [~revel0@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 15:35:45 -!- pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has left #lisp 15:36:42 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:37:00 -!- ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:39:50 -!- vtz [~user@client-73-37-12.speedy-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:40:41 <_3b`> ah, wasn't getting generalized booleans wrong, was checking for T explicitly... 703 pass 11 fail 8 error with that fixed 15:40:59 segmond [~seg@99.25.83.157] has joined #lisp 15:42:04 srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 15:42:41 ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 15:42:42 _3b`: nice :) 15:43:06 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-gysolimyvypduetg] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:44:23 -!- blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:44:43 blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 15:46:32 -!- ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:47:36 Alright. I have an idiom that's alien to me and here's the question. 15:47:47 hunchentoot has a bunch of dispatch handlers. 15:48:31 ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 15:48:35 Shaftoe_: not usually. when you start it, I believe it has one, or maybe zero. 15:49:08 What I'm ending up doing is that I've added a wrapper around all of them, and in that wrapper made a dynamic binding (to the real versus computed url of a webcall I'm getting), and I have ended up whole-sale copying the code from the hunchentoot code base replacing (hunchentoot:script-name) with *script-name* 15:49:24 -!- ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:49:25 is there a better way to do this? 15:50:03 Xach: by dispatch handlers, I meant the stock functions provided with the code base (ie the definitions of dispatch handlers rather than the objects themselves) 15:50:45 -!- stephenry [~user@cpc2-grnk1-0-0-cust713.renf.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:50:50 -!- manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:51:43 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 15:51:51 one thing I recognize is that I could have modified the *request* object itself, essentially moving the *script-name* dynamic binding to within the request object methods. 15:52:41 drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 15:52:53 but the thing that's blocked my effort is that *request* only has getters. no setters. So I'd have to wrap around all of the request code in much the same way 15:53:54 Why not just make a new request objet and bind that? 15:54:50 well, the thing is that I'm trying to avoid copying pasting code. so that's kinda the same problem. given that all I want to do is deviate ever so slightly from the standard functionality, I'm finding myself copying and pasting essentially all of the code from hunchentoot code base, and then doing a tiny modification. 15:55:10 hmm. maybe if I conditionally put a method wrapper around (hunchentoot:script-name ..).. 15:55:13 TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-75-83-191-189.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:55:38 well. 15:56:37 -!- 92AAATI07 [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:56:57 jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 15:58:01 -!- jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: jhalogen] 15:58:09 oh my. I think the typing all of that out might have given me an idea. thanks for listening. 15:58:21 hi. does anybody know of an "observer pattern" library for cl? 15:58:32 cells seems a bit too much 15:58:37 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 15:58:42 jleija: Why would you want one? 15:58:45 i only need to be notified on some slot changes 15:58:56 gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 15:58:57 jleija: Use accessors,not slots. 15:59:01 davazp [~user@83.49.73.28] has joined #lisp 15:59:17 <_3b`> (defmethod (setf slot) :before ...) ? 16:00:02 Zhivago, _3b: ok. something like that should work 16:00:05 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:01:00 <_3b`> or just define the accessor by hand 16:01:49 _3b, Zhivago: the thing is that i might want to define the listeners after the methods have been defined 16:02:09 <_3b`> does anything in the spec require (SUBSETP '("car" "ship" "airplane" "submarine") '("car" "ship" "horse" "airplane" "submarine" "camel")) to be false? 16:02:12 jleija: This is why god invented before and after methods. 16:02:48 I'm pretty sure CL is allowed to merge string literals. 16:02:53 Zhivago: you mean i can just chain them as needed one on top of another one? 16:02:56 It's certainly UB to modify them. 16:03:09 _3b`: aren't you supposed to use :test with that? 16:03:35 Yeah, but he's asking a different question. 16:03:43 <_3b`> antifuchs: i'm not trying to do that, just determine if it is a bug in sacla tests or my compiler :) 16:03:58 require it to be false? no. 16:04:01 Zhivago: ok. i'll try that. thanks 16:04:22 -!- cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:05:12 <_3b`> ok, i'll ignore that test then :) 16:06:08 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.113.138.195] has joined #lisp 16:06:29 austinh [~austinh@c-24-21-81-46.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:06:30 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 16:07:00 -!- moocow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:07:43 <_3b`> 18 fail/error tests to go, guess i should probably get code cleaned up and checked in first though 16:10:06 cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has joined #lisp 16:12:22 oh right... nested backquotes don't work, right_ 16:12:24 ? 16:12:30 no 16:12:52 Is there some theoretical reason for why this doesn't work? 16:12:52 carlocci [~nes@93.37.217.232] has joined #lisp 16:12:54 -!- blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:12:58 I remember thinking about it a few years back 16:13:36 It seems to me that it wouldn't make the macro definition ambiguous, so I see no need to forbid it 16:14:04 "no" meant "not right" 16:14:40 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 16:14:45 oh 16:14:48 so it does work? 16:15:03 nested backquotes separate the men from the boys 16:15:21 haha 16:15:24 _3b`: Hyperspec says (eql "Foo" "Foo") 16:15:27 => true 16:15:28 OR=> false. 16:15:30 So your subsetp may return true or false depending on implementation. 16:15:45 Nested backquotes work. 16:16:09 `(hello `(world ,',x)) 16:16:16 nice 16:16:16 thanks 16:16:25 Must have been doing it wrong those years ago 16:17:09 I like the waterfall pattern `',x :) 16:18:02 oh, you have to , the quote 16:18:11 that's why it didn't work for me back in the day 16:18:33 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:18:41 It's more that you have to quote the comma. 16:19:03 -!- Holcxjo [~holly@pdpc/supporter/active/hdurer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:19:06 my mind is being blown 16:19:47 Comma is basically unquote. 16:19:59 -!- rdd` is now known as rdd 16:20:12 You want to transport it up from the inner layer, so you need to quote it so that that's what you get when you unquote it. 16:20:36 right 16:21:00 my nested backquote looked more like this 16:22:54 `(something some-arg ,(some-function `(to-which-we-give-a-constructed-symbol thing))) 16:23:04 how should the unquoting look on thing 16:23:17 ,,thing ? 16:23:54 See above. 16:24:00 ok, thanks 16:25:07 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:25:11 ",thing", i think, because you are already within a , 16:26:55 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A6F2E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:27:18 Sometimes it's helpful to thing about the tedious way of doing things and to work backwards from there. E.g., it looks like you want a result equivalent to (list 'something 'some-arg (some-function (list 'to-which thing))) 16:27:55 One step back from there is (list 'something 'some-arg (some-function `(to-which ,thing))) 16:28:02 Yuuhi [benni@p5483AEF1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:28:32 And one more after that is `(something some-arg ,(some-function `(to-which ,thing))). 16:28:40 mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has joined #lisp 16:30:26 tayloj: That is a good way to get used to it, indeed. Thanks. 16:30:42 All too seldomly do I get opportunities to write macros 16:33:18 yeah, one comma would put it at the same level as some-function, which will be evaluated 16:33:35 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@clip-point-02.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has left #lisp 16:33:37 tayloj [~tayloj@clip-point-02.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 16:33:47 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@clip-point-02.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has left #lisp 16:33:49 tayloj [~tayloj@clip-point-02.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 16:38:19 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-125-58.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: HG`] 16:40:45 Roarsaiddlionz [~chatzilla@74-44-74-177.dsl1-field.roch.ny.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 16:41:19 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@69.86.153.232] has quit [Quit: galaxywatcher] 16:41:23 I got Meroko to compile and load in my ubuntu distro, does anyone know hot to get the e1 rom images from ulambda.com to load. 16:41:39 I get a WCS parity failure 16:41:57 but unlike Snap4 it does not hose my system, and lets me use firefox at the same time. 16:42:21 http://www.unlambda.com/meroko/ <-- this is the emulator I am using/ 16:42:24 -!- relcomp [~chatzilla@pc92-e03-3.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE] has left #lisp 16:43:51 colinafoley [~colinafol@pool-71-126-70-76.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:44:18 Can anyone help me out with a hash notation invalid-read-syntax error I'm having? 16:45:11 colinafoley: you'll have to give more details. Use paste.lisp.org if appropriate :) 16:45:25 Intensity [WxXhzchx8G@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 16:45:31 quack [~quack@bl15-122-15.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 16:45:34 vtz [~user@router2-border.mreja.net] has joined #lisp 16:46:00 varjag [~eugene@84.118.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 16:46:20 Anyone familier with http://www.unlambda.com/meroko/ <-- how do I get the disk images to work. Thanks in advance for your help. :P 16:47:04 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:47:15 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-4-65.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 16:47:35 I'm trying to load a custom formatting file for emacs. This is the error I get 16:47:39 http://paste.lisp.org/display/112868 16:48:21 <_3b`> #emacs knows more about emacs/elisp problems 16:48:22 colinafoley: you need #emacs 16:48:28 you'll have to ask in #emacs about elisp problems. 16:48:33 gah 16:49:19 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-35-221.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:49:28 k ;) 16:49:29 thanks 16:49:39 -!- colinafoley [~colinafol@pool-71-126-70-76.phlapa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:50:29 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:50:51 -!- vtz [~user@router2-border.mreja.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:51:30 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 16:51:32 I am using Meroko to run extended tests, I hope that fixes it. Anyone here how about the Meroko Lisp Environment. 16:52:35 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 16:55:39 vtz [~user@router2-border.mreja.net] has joined #lisp 16:58:14 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-206-24.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:00:20 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.230.214] has joined #lisp 17:00:40 -!- Roarsaiddlionz [~chatzilla@74-44-74-177.dsl1-field.roch.ny.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.8/20100723085541]] 17:02:19 Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 17:03:47 lichtblau: we're integrating your changes to hu.dwim.rdbms... and i can't seem to find the definition of the type 'foreign-key-action'... any idea? it's used on several AST node slots as slot type 17:03:47 -!- revel0 [~revel0@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~] 17:04:25 hlavaty: i ping you too, see question above... 17:04:47 -!- nibiru [nibiru@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-lxggzzmreourfgnw] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:04:52 nibiru [nibiru@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-crowwutdrwjnhijd] has joined #lisp 17:06:45 -!- Guest42456 [~None@32.97.110.64] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:08:19 attila_lendvai: hi 17:08:24 hi 17:10:12 i haven't kept the public repo up to date recently 17:10:45 i'll have to look at what state it is in 17:10:46 -!- vtz [~user@router2-border.mreja.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:11:01 -!- zomgbie_ [~jesus@chello212186106204.11.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:11:16 i think up until the patch "foreign constraints implemented" it should be fine 17:11:42 -!- Lis [~Lis@business-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 17:11:43 it's very likely that i missed something from david's changes 17:11:57 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@chello212186106204.11.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:12:24 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 17:12:46 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:14:37 attila_lendvai: i'll look into it this week if that's ok. would be great to have it merged in 17:15:07 hlavaty: oops, i've been merging some issue here... i hope we're not duplicating efforts... :/ 17:15:31 hlavaty: could you please make sure your public repos are up to date? 17:15:52 i haven't merged your changes for ages so i dont think we are duplicating anything 17:15:57 hlavaty: i'll delay pushing then until you give a sign that you're pushed 17:16:02 good 17:16:42 attila_lendvai: sure i will, i just got the impression that harvesting the patches wasn't a priority for you guys until i have no failing test ;-) 17:16:45 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-146-167.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:17:13 attila_lendvai: i'll let you know when it's ready for merge 17:19:37 -!- Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:20:32 moah [~gnu@188.109.195.246] has joined #lisp 17:21:00 hlavaty: what's the ETA? few minutes? tomorrow? next week? 17:21:22 i'm planning to close the laptop soonish... only asking to have an idea... 17:22:39 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 17:23:33 tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has joined #lisp 17:24:22 amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 17:31:46 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:31:58 timor [~timor@port-92-195-197-22.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 17:32:40 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@h-66-134-27-130.nycmny83.static.covad.net] has joined #lisp 17:33:07 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.165.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 17:33:15 -!- milanj [~milanj_@77.46.210.53] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:33:37 -!- burton` [~user@calgary.userful.ca] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:33:53 Good evening everyone! 17:34:05 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 17:34:11 oconnor [~oconnore@c-24-62-202-27.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:34:17 burton` [~user@calgary.userful.ca] has joined #lisp 17:34:51 evening beach 17:36:11 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-141-185.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:36:35 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-141-185.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:37:44 vtz [~user@router2-border.mreja.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:41 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:39:16 milanj [~milanj_@93.87.101.76] has joined #lisp 17:39:24 [mzm] [~ziggy@92.98.165.122] has joined #lisp 17:42:16 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 17:49:06 -!- Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Planned down time ^^] 17:49:15 Heh. Maxima easily crashes with a segfault when maxima is compiled with allegro express (aka acl free trial). 17:51:14 HG` [~HG@xdslel230.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 17:52:08 rtoym: memory limit? 17:52:34 -!- JuanDaugherty [~juan@mobile-166-137-136-027.mycingular.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:52:46 Possible. But doesn't it normally print out a message a about gc failing and then exits without a segfault? 17:52:56 no idea 17:54:17 gz` [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 17:56:35 Hey guys, I need some help with this 17:56:36 http://paste.lisp.org/+2F3A 17:57:25 wbooze [~user@xdsl-84-44-252-26.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:57:25 homie [~user@xdsl-84-44-252-26.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:57:28 stephenry [~user@cpc2-grnk1-0-0-cust713.renf.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 17:57:54 evening 17:58:13 lambert [~lambert@85.69.145.12] has joined #lisp 17:59:05 evenin' 17:59:13 <_3b`> OliverUv: your indentation is hard to read 17:59:14 OliverUv: first thing to note is that defmacro takes a destructuring lambda list 17:59:28 urandom__ [~user@p548A756C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:59:35 _3b`: Ah yeah, sorry, it is forced upon my by Limp 17:59:58 it doesn't get that it should only indent two spaces after a list, instead of indenting a full tab 18:00:32 <_3b`> that sounds overly simplified 18:01:22 it is 18:01:26 but even that would make things better 18:01:35 it doesn' do correct indentation for let or if 18:01:49 (i concider the emacs indentation correct) 18:01:56 OliverUv, what is "stopp" 18:02:05 oh oops 18:02:09 stopp is stop 18:02:18 <_3b`> what is (for ...)? 18:02:20 i figured :) 18:02:24 I must have missed renaming one of the things... original code is in Swedish 18:02:32 JuanDaugherty [~juan@mobile-166-137-139-035.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 18:02:38 for is a macro I defined, which also works correctly 18:03:27 basically (for i from 1 to 10 do (format t "~A " i)) will print 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 18:03:42 OliverUv: what's the point? 18:03:45 but after do you can have any number of commands, which I have also checked that it works 18:03:52 <_3b`> so basically a less powerful version of LOOP to save typing "loop "? 18:03:52 OliverUv: cl has already: (loop for i from 1 to 10 do (format t "~A " i)) 18:04:03 pjb`: haha, damn 18:04:14 I looked at do and was like "this won't work" 18:04:53 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A756C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:04:54 OliverUv, use destructuring bind (you can do this directly in your argument list: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/m_destru.htm#destructuring-bind 18:04:57 i searched on lispdoc.com for for 18:05:11 OliverUv: I'd rather use CLHS... 18:05:41 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 18:05:52 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/c_iterat.htm 18:06:05 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:06:58 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-64-200-182.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 18:07:06 OliverUv: is bygg-tabell recursive? 18:07:13 jleija: Yes. 18:07:56 but the recursive call is not done during macro-expansion 18:07:57 OliverUv: the macro by itself doesn't seem to have any recursive problems. the problem must be in one of the other functions/macros 18:08:12 hm 18:08:43 -!- bytecolor [~user@adsl-71-137-202-62.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:08:44 OliverUv, http://paste.lisp.org/display/112870#1 18:09:02 cleaner, yes? 18:09:16 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 18:09:19 OliverUv: ah, ok. have you tried to expand the macro and then feed that to the repl? 18:09:45 <_3b`> you should probably also switch the IF to WHEN, and run it at macroexpansion time instead of runtime 18:10:26 and paste original code.. 18:11:05 hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-109-205.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 18:12:41 jleija, _3b`: I'll try those 18:13:05 3b: that's the big problem.. there's no base case in macroexpansion 18:13:19 OliverUv: you know what, when compiling and loading it is going to pass the whole (progn ...) to the repl, and so those recursive calls do get to run 18:13:22 adeht: damn! I didn't know that worked 18:14:03 <_3b`> adeht: oh, is bygg-tabell supposed to be build-table? 18:14:06 OliverUv: change the progn for a lambda and you shouldn't see any recursion problem, just as a test 18:14:09 3b: I think so 18:14:19 yes 18:14:22 *_3b`* just thought running it at runtime was wasteful since it is known at macroexpansion time' 18:14:52 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-206-24.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:14:57 <_3b`> yeah, a macro that always expands to a call to itself might be bad :p 18:15:46 ah, bygg-tabell is build-table? there you go. ok, i got it 18:17:01 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:17:36 rickmode [~rickmode@cpe-76-167-41-163.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:18:37 -!- quack [~quack@bl15-122-15.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 18:18:49 -!- rickmode [~rickmode@cpe-76-167-41-163.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rickmode] 18:18:53 alright, I'll just move it into the macro-expansion 18:18:55 Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:18:56 xan_ [~xan@ip212-238-40-26.hotspotsvankpn.com] has joined #lisp 18:19:05 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:19:10 ASau` [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 18:19:22 But I still don't get why this causes trouble. The compiler goes through it even though it is in an if-branch? 18:19:37 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-64-200-182.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:19:48 <_3b`> it doesn't run the IF until it runs the compiled code 18:19:55 <_3b`> it has to expand the macro to compile the code 18:20:41 cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has joined #lisp 18:22:23 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@h-66-134-27-130.nycmny83.static.covad.net] has quit [Quit: galaxywatcher] 18:22:39 OliverUv: the compiler knows about the special operators, about macros (they are already defined), and other stuff.. it expands everything it needs to expand until no further expansion is possible 18:25:19 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.know.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:25:25 that's at least what SBCL does. I believe there is leeway in the spec 18:26:44 clhs 3.2.2.2 18:26:45 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_bbb.htm 18:26:56 yes, minimal compilation covers that 18:27:38 *_3b`* 's question would be whether it is required to expand macros whose expansion it knows will not be called 18:27:44 huh ok 18:28:23 aparently it expands them even though it knows they will not be called, well, assuming it has done the arithmetic down the recursive calls - but that should have been done 18:28:33 *apparently 18:28:49 thanks for the help! It works now 18:28:50 <_3b`> OliverUv: it might do that later though 18:29:21 <_3b`> (deciding whether that branch will ever be evaluated that is) 18:29:21 well, it needs to do more than just know about the if's test 18:29:46 <_3b`> not sure it would be valid to skip expanding the macro anyway though, since it could have side effects 18:29:56 ah yeah 18:30:16 I\m gonna head down to see if the night market is still open 18:30:24 prima_lu` [~user@95.158.0.252] has joined #lisp 18:30:32 buy some strange taiwanese food by pointing and saying their words for yes and ok 18:30:56 does anyone have any experience with using emacs/swank with a program that is multitreaded 18:31:08 when i try calling sometihng that creates a new thread it dont work 18:31:25 <_3b`> works for me, swank creates threads all the time for that matter 18:31:32 -!- prima_lu` is now known as prima_lux` 18:32:06 PuffTheMagic: maybe you have some expectations about the output stream 18:33:59 PuffTheMagic: what OS and cl are you using? 18:34:15 -!- prima_lux [~user@95.158.0.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:34:27 jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:35:20 jleija: linux/sbcl 18:35:35 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.know.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 18:36:58 in sbcl it used to be the case (i'm not sure now) that you had to build with threads enabled. i also use linux/sbcl and the threads work fine. 18:37:57 zomgbie_ [~jesus@188.45.8.173] has joined #lisp 18:37:57 zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.8.173] has joined #lisp 18:38:56 Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-71-41.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:39:51 is it possible to write to a class slot that does not have a writer? 18:40:12 <_3b`> don't use :writer ? 18:40:16 (setf slot-value) 18:40:16 <_3b`> (or :accessor) 18:40:17 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.know.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:40:26 <_3b`> ah, sorry... misread 18:40:30 adeht: I'm doing that. But maybe not as ought to be 18:40:33 jleija: i have threads enabled in sbcl 18:40:43 if i run my app with sbcl started from cli 18:40:48 everything works fine 18:40:49 (setf (slot-value obj 'non-writable-slot) value) gives me a compilation error 18:40:57 but if run in emacs it does not 18:41:26 Shaftoe_: paste the code and error 18:41:35 ok 18:41:42 gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.228.19] has joined #lisp 18:41:43 mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:41:59 Shaftoe_: wrong package? 18:42:02 <_3b`> PuffTheMagic: need more details... what should it do, what does it do, etc 18:42:25 globally-redirect-io? 18:42:27 PuffTheMagic: mmhhh. i don't know then, i don't have any other suggestion. :( 18:42:54 <_3b`> yeah, IO going to somewhere you don't notice it is the most likely guess 18:44:20 adeht: I need some head scratching time. =) 18:44:20 \ 18:44:27 (before I paste) 18:44:53 -!- asarch [~asarch@187.132.135.137] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:46:49 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 18:47:10 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:47:13 http://paste.lisp.org/display/112873 18:47:26 there's also an error ocurring at runtime that I need to grok. 18:47:50 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:48:01 Shaftoe_: what makes you think that's the slot's name? Also, this is likely to end in tears (for you). 18:48:40 asarch [~asarch@187.132.135.137] has joined #lisp 18:48:43 Shaftoe: this is not an error 18:49:21 heh. I just realized that, indeed, the slot name is actually uri, but I get the same warning 18:49:28 tell me about my tears =) 18:50:05 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:50:07 adeht: do you mean to say that it's a warning and not an error, or that this is expected behaviour (or both) 18:50:09 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 18:51:00 Shaftoe: as you can see it's a STYLE-WARNING.. pkhuong hinted at the reason 18:51:25 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:52:43 cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has joined #lisp 18:52:44 benny` [~user@i577A7CE8.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:52:52 Shaftoe: the slot's name is the symbol hunchentoot::uri 18:52:59 ahhh! 18:53:08 the hunchentoot:uri would do it (instead of the bare). 18:53:37 -!- Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-71-41.iburst.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:53:59 -!- benny [~user@i577A1AB3.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:54:37 ok. While we're at it: is there a difference between foo:bar and foo::bar ? 18:54:49 and what is it? 18:54:51 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.230.214] has left #lisp 18:55:23 Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-71-41.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:55:43 Shaftoe: foo:bar will signal an error if foo::bar is not an external symbol 18:56:57 '::' means "I know what I'm doing" 18:57:01 adeht: thanks. 18:57:23 hah! (something I'm sure many people here are doubting =) ) 18:57:39 Shaftoe: the tears will flow because you're messing with implementation details that may change in the future 18:58:06 mhd [~mhd@c-76-118-198-68.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:18 -!- rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:59:07 and because you're breaking implementation invariants. 18:59:10 Shaftoe: worse yet, you may have overlooked an assumption made by the current implementation about this value 18:59:18 adeht: Sigh. I know. about those tears. 18:59:24 s/value/access/ 18:59:31 I had come here earlier for a an attempt to solve my crisis without these tears. 18:59:59 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:00:20 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-64-200-182.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:48 I'll tell you just in case you guys have a brilliant idea on how to solve it. I want hunchentoot to process "http[s]://secure.foo.com/~bar.com/baz" exactly as though it were "http[s]://bar.com/baz" 19:01:33 Shaftoe_: nginx/apache rewrite rules? 19:01:34 Shaftoe_: write a macro. 19:01:47 wrapping accessor methods in :around calls didn't work for most likely the same reason you both just mentioned in that maybe it's an invariant in the hunchentoot code. 19:02:07 pkhuong: a macro to do what exactly? 19:02:21 Jabberwockey [~Jens@port-9113.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 19:02:33 to register two handlers at a time. 19:02:48 Shaftoe_: I use nginx to do that... 19:03:16 Harag, jleija: do these require apache? 19:03:42 well i use nginx instead of apache 19:03:52 but its the same concept 19:03:53 Shaftoe_: nginx is its own web server. it is small and easier to configure 19:03:59 and nginx is a reverse proxy? 19:04:00 hmm. 19:04:04 yes 19:04:43 much easier to configure 19:04:48 I might end up having to do this, however it always makes me twitch to have to install a framework to solve something that might end up being 2 lines of code. 19:04:58 Shaftoe_: besides you probably want a "real" web server for public access 19:05:24 jleija: for what reason exactly? 19:05:42 Shaftoe_: well, malicious accesses and the like 19:05:50 -!- zomgbie_ [~jesus@188.45.8.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:05:50 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.8.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:06:09 Shaftoe_: nginx is excellent at this and flexible to rewrite you urls anyway you need 19:06:14 astalla [~astalla@93-36-227-114.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 19:06:22 zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.8.173] has joined #lisp 19:06:23 and virtual hosting 19:06:25 zomgbie_ [~jesus@188.45.8.173] has joined #lisp 19:06:28 and to handle non-core logic such as the rewriting above, static files, SSL, etc. 19:06:28 saurabh [~saurabh@122.169.132.59] has joined #lisp 19:06:36 well, I'm using hunchentoot. 19:06:48 hunchentoot handles ssl fine. 19:07:01 that leaves with URL rewriting. and I have quite a bunch of custom rewriting going on that is dynamic 19:07:04 (comes from DB) 19:07:17 Shaftoe_: yes but, normally you want to pass through (proxy) nginx/apache before hunchentoot 19:07:55 jleija: why? 19:07:58 I've heard of that argument before and I'm not really sold on it, unless someone says Hunchentoot can't handle it's load 19:08:09 I am a c/c++ programmer. I read this article by Eric S reymond and feltb like learning Lisp.Can anyone tell me what are advantages in terms of problem solving approach I will get.Also what dialect u suggest for someone who has never done functional programming? 19:08:12 hunchentoot is a fine webserver that does everything I need. 19:08:14 Shaftoe_: but you can rewrite the "root" of you web app and then use hunchentoot for all your dynamic urls 19:08:15 -!- lambert [~lambert@85.69.145.12] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:08:56 <_3b`> saurabh: depends on whether the goal is to learn functional programming or not (this channel is about common lisp though, so that is what we suggest either way :p ) 19:09:08 jleija: my webapp is as close a real implemention and service you get to a "factory that makes factories". There's essentially no root and everything minus a couple of fixed folders in the root is dynamic. 19:09:15 Shaftoe_: it's probably easier to get help if your setup is close to that used by others. 19:09:20 I would end up sending * to hunchentoot 19:10:04 pkhuoung: indeed. However I came here asking about slot-values =) not http rewriting software =) 19:10:07 ost: well, nginx has been well tested with thousands of simultaneous connections. It is a good "first layer" imo. ymmv 19:10:18 _3b:the goal is to learn functional programming only.Because many places I have read that learning it leads to some kinda enlightment.wanna experience it 19:10:42 <_3b`> Shaftoe_: why not just subclass request instead of trying to hack around the limitations of the existing class? 19:11:03 _3b`: that's a good idea. I will look into that. 19:11:12 <_3b`> saurabh: in that case you might prefer haskell or one of the other pure functional languages 19:11:44 _3b:thanks 19:11:48 <_3b`> saurabh: if you specifically want a lisp, scheme is a bit more oriented towards 'functional' than CL 19:11:53 oh man. I think it was that simple. 19:12:09 <_3b`> saurabh: CL is more general purpose, and doesn't enforce any particular style 19:13:07 _3b`: but cl has some enlightment to offer aswell! 19:13:52 saurabh: ocaml is pretty nice if you want mostly functional with side-effects and objects. 19:13:54 _3b`: I think you've solved a day of befuddlement in a single sentence. 19:13:56 b4|hraban [~b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 19:14:25 <_3b`> right, i wouldn't want to /use/ a pure functional language, but if the goal is to learn that style, something that enforces it would probably be helpful :) 19:14:30 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.8.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:14:30 -!- zomgbie_ [~jesus@188.45.8.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:15:30 -!- b4|hraban [~b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 19:15:32 <_3b`> saurabh: actually, i forgot clojure does some interesting functional stuff too, for another lisp option 19:15:43 pkhuong:thanks 19:15:55 _3b:clojure?is it some dialect 19:15:57 -!- mhd [mhd@clozure-D1451B0E.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout] 19:16:12 <_3b`> saurabh: yes, a fairly recent lisp for JVM 19:16:14 minion: tell saurabh about PCL 19:16:15 saurabh: look at PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 19:16:30 so really, you could go with just about anything (an SML, haskell, ocaml, scheme, CL, clojure) and see if it works for you. 19:16:53 saurabh: CL is of more high level than C++, whatever library you may use (STL, Boost, etc). 19:17:06 pjb`: have you seen spirit? 19:17:14 -!- mhd [~mhd@c-76-118-198-68.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:17:14 Shaftoe_: you might also try somthing like: (hunchentoot:define-easy-handler (my-general-request :uri #'do-i-want-to-handle-this?) () ... do all your magic here ...) 19:17:26 az [~az@2a01:4f8:101:4a2::9c00] has joined #lisp 19:17:27 minion:i had a look at it.but to be frank i found it a bit difficult to read ( obviously my proble,as many people suggest this book) 19:17:29 I would go for Clojure, it is the most recent so has most of the buzz around it, and can also make use of all existing Java libraries 19:17:46 Shaftoe_: so only one handler function with all your code inside 19:17:47 I, for one, love it when people reply to bots thinking they're real people. 19:17:52 minion: you're awesome. 19:17:52 what's up? 19:17:58 gigamonkey [~user@c-98-248-194-46.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:17:59 saurabh: for example, when I worked in C++, I used CL to develop and debug complex algorithms, and then translated them in C++. Well, if it took me one day to write the CL version, I needed the rest of the week to translate it into C++.... 19:18:24 pkhuong: never saw spirit. 19:18:31 <_3b`> pkhuong: is spirit the parser generator lib? 19:18:49 saurabh: what was the difficulty you had with PCL? 19:18:50 pjb:is it so?that big a difference? 19:18:59 saurabh: indeed. 19:19:00 _3b`: yes 19:19:30 jleija: that's what I'm doing except that now, I've dismantled my static folders. Let's say I have a (hunchentoot:create-regex-dispatcher "/robots.txt" 'robots) dispatcher. In the overriden system where https://secure.com/~foo.com/bar actually means https://foo.com/bar, the /robots.txt url appears to be unrelated as far as hunchentoot code is concerned. 19:19:31 pjb:the style of the book, no offense intended but i found it a bit boring 19:19:37 -!- Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:19:41 _3b`: sort of. It's turned into a lazy functional language edsl. Of course, I would love to debug compilation failures. 19:19:45 Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:20:05 jleija: and as I had said earlier today, I'm trying to avoid having to copy paste useful but simple code from hunchentoot (lest I get suffer tears) 19:20:10 *gigamonkey* looks the other way and whistles. 19:20:12 -!- ASau` [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:20:20 saurabh: when I first started to use CL, I converted all my Modula-2 and C++ libraries into CL. I had about 30 modules. Of them 90% weren't needed or useful in CL. Of the 3 that remained, their size in CL LoC was 10% of the originals... 19:20:22 zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.8.173] has joined #lisp 19:20:37 zomgbie_ [~jesus@188.45.8.173] has joined #lisp 19:20:39 saurabh: perhaps you would like better SICP? 19:20:46 minion: tell saurabh about SICP 19:20:47 saurabh: direct your attention towards SICP: The Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs, a CS textbook using Scheme. Available under the CC-BY-NC Licence at (HTML), (Texinfo), and (PDF). Video lectures are available under the CC-BY-SA licence at 19:20:48 pjb`: them's some fancy numbers. 19:21:00 also, HtDP seemed like a nicer read than SICP :\ 19:21:11 sykopomp: they don't teach the same thing. 19:21:13 I find SICP more interesting. 19:21:23 minion:thanks , will surely have a look 19:21:29 mhd [~mhd@c-76-118-198-68.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:47 Has anyone made an epub version of SICP? 19:21:48 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:21:50 Shaftoe_: ok. it was just an idea. i haven't had the same needs as your app. let me know when you finish it :) 19:21:56 minion: someone suggested 'a little lisper' or something like that,any suggestion on that? 19:21:57 can you be more specific? 19:22:16 hehehe 19:22:22 saurabh: you could google it. 19:22:28 Hang on, I stayed at his house for several days yet somehow missed that Daniel Weinreb was part of the Quinqueverte. Doh. 19:22:30 saurabh: yes, "The Little Lisper". But it's an old edition. The newer edition is named "The Little Schemer", and there's two other volumes following. 19:22:53 -!- codewad [~codewad@c-24-17-171-213.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:22:58 willkurt [86c56f78@gateway/web/freenode/ip.134.197.111.120] has joined #lisp 19:23:16 pkhuong:I already googled it, but there are so many reviews,I prefer to get personal advice on irc 19:23:29 codewad [~codewad@c-24-17-171-213.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:23:38 gigamonkey: quinqueverte? 19:23:42 -!- willkurt [86c56f78@gateway/web/freenode/ip.134.197.111.120] has left #lisp 19:24:10 -!- benny` is now known as benny 19:24:13 sykopomp: Gang of Five, the original CL'ers. 19:24:23 ah 19:24:24 saurabh: "The Little Schemer" is fun to learn list processing and recursion. But if you're already a programmer and know already some of that, it may be a little slow. 19:24:38 saurabh: I found Little Schemer incredibly annoying. But you and I may have different ideas about what's boring. ;-) 19:24:39 josemanuel [~josemanue@42.252.217.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 19:24:56 gigamonkey: well, "The Little Schemer" is a child book! ;-) 19:25:07 it's very cute. 19:25:12 It should be read at 10, if not earlier. 19:25:23 i know most ppl here don't like "On Lisp" but it was very inspirational for me 19:26:00 -!- zomgbie_ [~jesus@188.45.8.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:26:00 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.8.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:27:11 I am already a programmer for last 5 years ,am proficient in C and C++.Good at bash scripting , Python and perl.So i feel like SICP is the way to go 19:27:50 sicp is an excellent course. 19:27:56 jlieja:can u tell me a bit more about 'On lisp'? 19:28:17 saurabh: what are you trying to learn? 19:28:20 "On Lisp" is the best treatment of macros that I'm aware of. 19:28:22 saurabh: And if you're more interested in CL than in Scheme, there are translations of the examples of SICP: http://www.codepoetics.com/wiki/index.php?title=Topics:SICP_in_other_languages http://eli.thegreenplace.net/category/programming/lisp/sicp/ 19:28:22 19:28:53 graham is usually criticised because his code isn't paticularly idiomatic of CL. 19:29:11 by all accounts he doesn't like CL very much at this point. :) 19:29:19 -!- xan_ [~xan@ip212-238-40-26.hotspotsvankpn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:29:19 saurabh: yes, "on lisp" goes into a bit more detail into the use of macros ... and macros is one of the things that make lisp so special 19:29:30 gigamonkey:I am trying to learn functional programmimng ( am zero in functional stuff) .want to know the best language/dialect for that and a book to accompany that 19:30:33 g0dgrind [~wakko9war@74-44-74-177.dsl1-field.roch.ny.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:45 saurabh, Haskell Is a Pure Functional language 19:30:53 saurabh: for functional programming scheme with SICP is very good, and you can also have state, if needed 19:31:06 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl6-96-251.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 19:31:12 Does anyone know how to get bobotpp the lisp based bot to work. 19:31:26 I got it to compile, but it is not adding the bot to my channel. 19:31:50 saurabh: if you want to really wrap your head around FP I'd say go learn Haskell. But if that's too painful, SICP is probably a good choice. 19:31:55 saurabh: yeah. haskell's Real World Haskell (or something like that) is excellent, but haskell is too strict and might be frustrating ... depending on what you are doing 19:33:18 saurabh: or an ML if you want functional and static typing, but not laziness. 19:34:57 thanks all of you.by the discussion I have decided following 1)Try learning Haskell 2)If 1) is too painful , goto SICP 19:35:33 -!- mhd [~mhd@c-76-118-198-68.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:36:04 mhd [~mhd@c-76-118-198-68.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:36:52 yeap. Real World Haskell is the book for Haskell 19:37:45 saurabh, If you want a decent flexible, multi-paradigm language at some point check out Common Lisp 19:38:32 Guthur: That sounds very interesting. tell me more. 19:39:07 Common Lisp rules! when you get tired of checking other "newer" and "cool" languages, come back to Common Lisp. hehehe 19:39:54 francogrecs [~6d82823f@208.110.73.34] has joined #lisp 19:40:07 -!- astalla [~astalla@93-36-227-114.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:40:54 schmrkc, hehe, there is many people who have put it into better words than me 19:41:09 I'm sure you have read a lot of it 19:41:23 Long ago I found somewhere on the net an archive of the original (pre-ANSI) designers' mailing list. Now I can't find it. Anyone know there it is? 19:41:43 Forth is my main interest at the moment though, heh 19:41:45 Guthur,Jleija:I would surely comeback to CL,but the point here is right now I am more interested in Functional programming.So multi-paradigm i s not my concern 19:41:54 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@clip-point-02.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:42:10 -!- francogrecs [~6d82823f@208.110.73.34] has quit [Client Quit] 19:42:43 saurabh, It should be interesting for you, I've been meaning to check out Haskell sometime myself 19:42:54 It keeps getting pushed down the list though 19:42:57 jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-7-68-199.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:09 Holcxjo [~holly@home.sinclair-durer.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:33 -!- Holcxjo [~holly@home.sinclair-durer.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:44:33 Holcxjo [~holly@pdpc/supporter/active/hdurer] has joined #lisp 19:44:39 astalla [~astalla@93-36-227-114.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 19:45:56 *schmrkc* hands Guthur some .'s so he can pop it. 19:46:04 Johannes_3 [~6d82823f@208.110.73.34] has joined #lisp 19:48:10 saurabh: i started learning Haskell but then i didn't have enough time and i didn't find an excuse to use it at work, so i didn't finish learning it. it was very interesting and enlightening, though 19:48:51 what is the difference bewteen #\newline and \#return in (format stream "~A~A" \#newline \#return) ? 19:49:10 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has left #lisp 19:49:14 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:49:28 (char-code #\Newline) => 10 (char-code #\Return) => 13 19:49:34 YIMD. 19:49:46 (Your implementation may differ.) 19:49:57 *schmrkc* cancels the google on yimd 19:50:12 Thx 19:50:47 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 19:51:33 schmrkc, 19:51:40 :O 19:51:48 I was sure I left Haskell on it 19:51:58 I must have decided it wasn't worth the pain, hehe 19:52:14 gigamonkey: maybe you mean stuff in ftp://ftp.parc.xerox.com/pub/cl/ 19:53:31 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@erft-4d07f482.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 19:53:47 -!- HG` [~HG@xdslel230.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:54:05 -!- mhd [mhd@clozure-D1451B0E.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 19:54:17 mhd_ [~mhd@c-76-118-198-68.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:28 -!- mhd [~mhd@c-76-118-198-68.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:55:07 -!- Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-71-41.iburst.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:55:21 Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-71-41.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:57:05 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:57:05 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:57:43 -!- TheEnd2012 [~TheEnd201@65.196.40.254] has quit [Quit: TheEnd2012] 19:58:04 adeht: perhaps that it. Anyway, that's useful stuff. Thanks. 19:58:19 *gigamonkey* wonders if wget groks ftp:// 19:59:51 -!- mhd_ [mhd@clozure-D1451B0E.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 20:00:10 it should 20:00:17 gigamonkey: it does. 20:01:22 Yup. Slurping historical documents as we speak. 20:01:27 mhd__ [~mhd@c-76-118-198-68.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:01:56 -!- koollman [~samson_t@ns301422.ovh.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:02:33 -!- Johannes_3 [~6d82823f@208.110.73.34] has left #lisp 20:03:31 -!- mhd_ [~mhd@c-76-118-198-68.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:03:55 gigamonkey: I started reading the cleanup discussions some time ago.. the one involving unwind semantics was a nice read 20:04:01 -!- Revolve [revolve@wind.nullroute.eu.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:04:39 -!- Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-71-41.iburst.co.za] has quit [Quit: Harag] 20:05:04 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:05:09 francogrex [~user@109.130.130.63] has joined #lisp 20:05:43 exit-extent 20:07:31 mhd [~mhd@c-76-118-198-68.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:34 -!- mhd__ [~mhd@c-76-118-198-68.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:07:47 koollman [~samson_t@ns301422.ovh.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:48 -!- davazp [~user@83.49.73.28] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:11:36 Revolve [revolve@wind.nullroute.eu.org] has joined #lisp 20:11:37 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 20:12:16 -!- g0dgrind is now known as webkidz007 20:12:31 -!- mhd [mhd@clozure-D1451B0E.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 20:12:32 adeht: do you know if those email archives include the discussion that led to CLTL1? 20:12:32 -!- mhd [~mhd@c-76-118-198-68.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:12:45 mhd [~mhd@c-76-118-198-68.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:14:03 -!- az [~az@2a01:4f8:101:4a2::9c00] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:14:03 -!- Bucciarati [~buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:14:22 -!- webkidz007 [~wakko9war@74-44-74-177.dsl1-field.roch.ny.frontiernet.net] has left #lisp 20:14:39 *francogrex* wonders what gigamonkey has in mind; a new revolution perhaps or a history book? 20:17:09 I'm working on my talk for the next ILC. 20:17:10 reno starts sounding more and more attractive (: 20:17:10 I'm going to talk about the standardization process, good, bad, and ugly. 20:17:10 anti-loop-ism! 20:17:11 Knee-jerk anti-loop-ism, if you please. 20:17:11 I'm sorry 20:17:11 my beef is more with the cronic anti-loop-ism (: 20:17:11 *gigamonkey* just downloaded that paper. 20:17:11 hah 20:17:12 And I discovered the awsome "Print to Papers" option that's now in my Print->PDF menu since I installed Papers. 20:17:34 gigamonkey: oh, that's awesome. 20:17:41 sounds cool 20:18:07 -!- Eno_ [~quassel@fl-71-55-191-79.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:18:22 Eno_ [~quassel@fl-71-55-191-79.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:51 -!- rootzlevel [~hpd@91-66-216-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:19:52 rootzlevel 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joined #lisp 20:31:03 tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:03 golgotha [~micro@www.bway.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:03 amaron [~amaron@greenzone.copyleft.no] has joined #lisp 20:31:03 herbieB [~herbie@u15287329.onlinehome-server.com] has joined #lisp 20:31:03 ojuice [ojuice@209.164.37.111.static.sna.hosting.com] has joined #lisp 20:31:03 rotty [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has joined #lisp 20:31:03 tvaalen [~r@unaffiliated/tvaal] has joined #lisp 20:31:03 pok [pok@tarrant.klingenberg.no] has joined #lisp 20:32:06 ok 20:32:13 -!- srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:32:15 -!- Rearden [~John@209-217-211-155.northland.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:32:18 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-84-44-252-26.netcologne.de] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:32:18 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:32:18 -!- levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:32:18 gigamonkey: I /might/ (: 20:32:19 -!- gigamonkey [~user@c-98-248-194-46.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 306 seconds] 20:32:23 levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 20:32:32 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 20:32:36 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 20:32:48 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:32:53 what paper, any link pls? 20:33:22 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:33:25 -!- Adrinael [~adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:33:32 -!- rlpowell [~rlpowell@chain.digitalkingdom.org] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 20:33:38 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 382 seconds] 20:33:39 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 382 seconds] 20:33:43 -!- rlpowell_ is now known as rlpowell 20:34:08 hmm 20:34:18 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 20:34:56 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 20:34:59 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 20:34:59 Adrinael [~adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has joined #lisp 20:35:26 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 20:36:39 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-197-65.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:36:44 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A5971.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:36:52 urandom__ [~user@p548A5971.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:36:52 Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 20:36:55 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:37:05 -!- erk__ [~MrEd@BZ.BZFLAG.BZ] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:37:39 erk__ [~MrEd@BZ.BZFLAG.BZ] has joined #lisp 20:39:20 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:40:47 slyrus_ [~slyrus@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:43:02 -!- qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has left #lisp 20:43:52 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A5971.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:44:02 urandom__ [~user@p548A5971.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:46:00 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-129-171.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 20:46:03 <_3b`> doh, still not writing circular literal lists out right :/ 20:46:28 the only contrib that fails (partially) while building sbcl (on windows) is the sb-simple-streams, if that is fixed, it'll be all fine 20:46:45 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.228.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:47:44 good use of the passive there 20:47:51 seidos [~kevin@cpe-76-168-0-89.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:48:26 sb-posix isn't failing tests for you? 20:48:42 syamajala [~syamajala@68-187-223-155.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:49:03 -!- prima_lux` [~user@95.158.0.252] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:50:49 Krystof: i'm using passive :) 20:51:14 tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-67-248-22-159.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:51:35 lichtblau: the message after compilation speaks only of the simple-streams 20:51:57 I use Msys to build 20:52:06 *_3b`* wonders how many tests are just disabled on win 20:53:13 would it be too silly to shadow a function and then use it inside a program by invoking common-lisp:function? 20:56:23 You mean shadowing a CL symbol, and using it explicitly with the cl package prefix? 20:56:27 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:57:25 There's nothing wrong with doing that. 20:57:34 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:58:34 wow, 2 percentage return in 10 years of foreign exchange by an algorithm developed by genetic programming 20:58:39 the first positive result :) 20:58:47 bozhidar` [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 20:59:00 ok, I mean I redine it like this: (defun function-1 (args) ... (common-lisp:function-1 ...)) 20:59:06 redefine 21:00:01 hah, getting close to 5%, still lower than the bank's interest rate 21:00:39 EUR/USD exchange (based on hourly historical data) 21:01:06 -!- seidos [~kevin@cpe-76-168-0-89.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:01:14 levente_meszaros: ? 21:01:26 what algorithm ? 21:01:47 I'm playing with genetic programming 21:01:59 that develops algorithms for foreign exchange 21:02:21 based on hourly historical data for the last ten years of EUR vs. USD 21:05:27 is that a research project? 21:05:39 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:05:44 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:05:56 dlowe [~dlowe@c122-106-121-61.rivrw6.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:06:05 -!- austinh [~austinh@c-24-21-81-46.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:07:29 somewhat 21:07:44 actually somebody wants to pay me for doing this 21:08:26 -!- cddr [~user@5ac75e4f.bb.sky.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:09:33 this is just a toy yet and I pretty much don't believe that you can make money out of it 21:09:52 I've been amazed in the past at what you can make money at 21:10:01 you can, by selling it to some sucker 21:10:51 zomgbie_ [~jesus@188.45.176.227] has joined #lisp 21:10:51 zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.176.227] has joined #lisp 21:11:07 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 21:13:49 -!- sellout [~greg@gar31-3-82-234-48-135.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:15:04 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:15:04 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:15:38 -!- jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-7-68-199.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jajcloz] 21:15:49 suckers don't buy intelligent stuff 21:15:55 sellout [~greg@gar31-3-82-234-48-135.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:29 perhaps someday someone with brains might find it and pay a lot for it 21:17:01 -!- tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has left #lisp 21:19:02 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.176.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:19:14 that's whya lot of "jewels" remain unnoticed and guys who sell coca cola are arch-billionaires 21:19:25 -!- zomgbie_ [~jesus@188.45.176.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:19:30 jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-7-68-199.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:54 zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.176.227] has joined #lisp 21:20:01 zomgbie_ [~jesus@188.45.176.227] has joined #lisp 21:22:30 francogrex: popl don't want to think 21:22:36 *people 21:23:01 it was even the title of a book about HCI: "Don't Make Me Think!" :) 21:23:10 -!- jajcloz [~jaj@pool-108-7-68-199.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:24:21 how is this relevant.. I call a person buying such a system a sucker because I think such a system is only good at predicting the past and fooling suckers with noise 21:24:22 p_l: I am going to assume that that is shorthand for "If you take a person randomly, that person in most cases don't wan't to think", which I agree with. 21:25:30 Another way to interpret that is that your interfaces should be so intuitive that they can be bypassed by conscious thought, thus not requiring thinking in order to use 21:25:39 *p_l* got "suckered" into getting a smartphone :) 21:25:48 Thinking is energetically expensive. It's adaptive behavior to think as little as possible (but not too little) 21:26:23 if cars, e.g., required thinking in order to turn them, that would be bad 21:26:39 -!- zomgbie_ [~jesus@188.45.176.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:26:45 bfein: actually that doesn't fit your metaphor 21:26:55 bfein: Unfortunately, "intuitive" then depends on experience, making Windows "intuitive" which is contrary to common definitions as well as current desires. 21:27:08 gigamonkey [~user@c-98-248-194-46.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:25 zomgbie_ [~jesus@188.45.176.227] has joined #lisp 21:27:55 cars require extensive training before they bypass conscious thought, and you have the same effect in any other activity like that, including everything from walking to dogfighting in modern combat aircraft 21:28:02 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@42.252.217.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 21:28:03 adeht, predicting the past? 21:28:04 bfein: I hope you are not telling me that we were born with an intuition as to how to turn a car. 21:28:08 well, if I have an option of a steering wheel vs some thing where I input the angle I want the car to go at vs the angle it is currently at... I see the first as more "intuitive" 21:28:20 or at least, as requiring less thinking 21:28:21 hmm, beach: mind taking a look at this? http://paste.lisp.org/display/112884 21:28:26 and I don't see that as a bad thing 21:28:32 or any other CLIM hacker 21:28:38 levente_meszaros: what is your fitness function then? 21:28:46 bfein: Steering wheels are bad!!! 21:29:00 ok, but they are better than a keyboard where I have to input calculated angles :) 21:29:09 bfein: but the wheel *is* about inputting the angle. it's just a very specific way to do it, and the "no thinking" mode uses completely different neural subsystem than "intuitive interfaces" 21:29:21 bfein: Your imagination is too limited. 21:29:24 fair enough, its a bad analogy 21:29:27 bleakgadfly [~cato@168.81-166-171.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:30 beach: I agree 21:29:32 adeht, the amount of money the algorithm made with a given period of time 21:29:37 I would love to have more imagination 21:29:51 levente_meszaros: i.e. the past 21:29:53 obviously in the past 21:29:55 (I might have failed psychology, but got enough neurology lessons and own experience with driving/skiing/flying) 21:29:58 -!- moah [~gnu@188.109.195.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:30:06 levente_meszaros: which says nothing about its future performance 21:30:15 OliverUv: It might be too late in the day for me to give you any productive feedback. 21:31:08 OliverUv: For one thing, I never use identifiers in a language other than English (to make sure I get the most possible help). 21:31:25 adeht, well, you obviously can't predict the future 21:31:40 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 21:31:42 -!- christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:31:44 although you can feed in less data and check how it would have performed on the rest of the data 21:31:55 I am coding in Swedish because it is for the university, all the other code is in Swedish so I expect them to want this to be, too 21:31:58 beach: also, to avoid language clashes with the remaining identifiers in the language (: 21:32:01 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Client Quit] 21:32:13 this may not have been a problem in APL (although maybe it was encouraged to use ancient greek) 21:32:15 and of courses chances are that it is going to suck 21:32:17 my point was, I think the original comment by p_l mischaracterized the intent of the "Don't make me think" statement to mean "I'm dumb and don't want to think" vs "I should only have to think about what I want to do, not how to use your program to do it" 21:32:19 OliverUv: Also, use two `;' for comments aligned with the code. What software did you use to align it? 21:32:23 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:32:31 -!- gigamonkey [~user@c-98-248-194-46.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:32:37 I am using Limp, it doesn't align comments 21:32:45 sorry for making hard to read code :( 21:33:00 what's the point of using an alternate editor if it can't even edit your code properly? 21:33:13 I am running testa-år on a year-calendar 21:33:22 Lis [~Lis@business-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:33:28 the program successfully displays a table of 12 month objects 21:33:31 antifuchs: Possibly! Thanks for the nice card, and especially for the nice party by the way! Tell your respective parents hello, and that we had a wonderful time! 21:33:36 Hi everyone. Is it possible to load an .asd file with absolute path? 21:33:44 awesome - glad you got it (: 21:34:01 however, it doesn't seem to be using the presenters, it just prints the <...> class identifiers 21:34:09 Lis: (load "/path/to/asd-file.asd") not working for you? 21:34:16 uhm 21:34:49 OliverUv: If you want other people to comment on your code, you might want to use widely accepted conventions, or you might find that people will just be very reluctant to giving you feedback. 21:35:01 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.176.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:35:41 (load "C:\\Users\\Lis\\Documents\\work\\lispbuilder-sdl\\lispbuilder-sdl.asd") returns Error: There is no package named "ASDF" . 21:35:43 beach: the issue I encountered in real life is that people took the approval towards the phrase based on its second meaning as approval of the first meaning (order the same as in your message) 21:35:58 Lis: you probably have to require ASDF first 21:36:03 zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.176.227] has joined #lisp 21:36:10 or load it some other way, if your implementation doesn't provide it 21:36:15 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:36:16 OliverUv: ... please... use English in code... 21:36:18 what lisp impl are you using? 21:36:36 OliverUv: I am no longer able to read code in any language other than English (or exceptionally in French). I just can't deal with it! 21:36:37 bfein: that is obviously a very luser-centric view. it assumes that the means for whatever it is you want to do are already there and packaged 21:36:51 how would one go about making a macro where macroname (test &body body specs) where specs is a keyword to end the macro? 21:37:57 something like (for i=0:10 (body) end) 21:37:59 Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 21:38:00 bfein: e.g., Emacs would never exist with this approach 21:38:02 homie [~user@xdsl-84-44-252-26.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:38:10 p_l: Sorry, not too smart tonight, can you give concrete examples of such phrases? 21:38:22 adeht: Not necessarily... 21:38:43 adeht: it makes you think because if you want a programmable text editor, you have to think about how to program it 21:39:10 and sure, having a bunch of rather arbitrary key bindings isn't very intuitive, but once you learn them, you don't have to think about it 21:39:43 Can't write this code in English good sirs, have to follow the conventions already set 21:40:15 indeed that worked... 21:40:43 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.176.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:40:43 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:41:33 zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.176.227] has joined #lisp 21:42:12 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483B7CA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:42:32 -!- zomgbie_ [~jesus@188.45.176.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:43:18 -!- abend [~alx@67.136.131.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:43:46 zomgbie_ [~jesus@188.45.176.227] has joined #lisp 21:44:13 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483AEF1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:44:14 OliverUv: If that's already too much to ask of someone who can read Swedish, I hope you can imagine how much you are asking of someone who doesn't. 21:45:09 Yes. 21:45:19 OliverUv: I once was asked to read code written by a German person, and I just had to give up. You underestimate the value of the shared language in the code you are writing. 21:45:42 I was hoping somebody would have some obvious pointer about how to (present ...) things 21:46:08 if I can't get the problem solved by tomorrow this time I'll probably just translate the whole thing 21:46:19 or work on it for a day or two more 21:46:31 OliverUv: You don't get it. In order for people to even consider your code, you have to make sure then can understand the identifiers. 21:47:46 sliswede huh? where you at? 21:47:56 beach: I also have a gripe with formal CS education here about their use of non-English terminology that keeps students apart from the "rest of the world" 21:48:05 wow 21:48:23 OliverUv: swede huh? where you at? :) 21:48:37 Yeah, I did translate the last thing I posted. I'll make sure to translate the rest of the things I post aswell. 21:49:03 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:49:03 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:49:29 schmrkc: Are you asking about my current place of work? Bordeaux, France! Has been for some 23 years, and will continue like that for a while. Why do you ask? 21:49:34 -!- Lis [~Lis@business-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 21:49:58 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93.87.101.76] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:50:00 beach: I know that! I am asking OliverUv ! 21:50:15 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:50:22 beach: it got mangled! 21:50:33 schmrkc: I studied in Linköping University, originally came from Motala. At the moment I am in Jongli, Taoyuen district, Taiwan 21:50:46 I never had formal CS education and almost everything I read on a daily basis is in English (not my native language), especially technical material.. when I discuss things with these students there's usually a language barrier that needs to be dissolved 21:51:04 OliverUv: Holymoly! I was in motala not 3 months ago. 21:51:05 adeht: It's a delicate balance between your issue and getting the students to understand the message. Not as easy as you might think! 21:52:19 schmrkc: It would help if you marked your utterings with the nick of the receiver. 21:52:56 beach: I did, but it got garbled. so the second time around I pmarked ti again 21:53:10 schmrkc: OK. 21:53:34 beach: I know you's swedish. and you have some friend who started a hotel or hostel or something just around the corner from here. 21:53:42 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-84-44-252-26.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:53:53 *schmrkc* is a collector of information 21:54:01 schmrkc: So you also Swedish then, or just visiting? 21:54:24 schmrkc: I could go to the logs, or you could remind me. 21:54:36 OliverUv: well skåning anyway 21:54:56 -!- schmrkc is now known as schmx 21:55:19 schmrkc: Sorry, I don't mean to be hostile, it's just that my memory has always been pretty much inexistant. 21:55:45 beach: I just grabbed me a new nick that was better suited to my current status. I'm the fine lover of McCLIM living i Malmoe 21:55:53 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-84-44-252-26.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:56:00 beach: Huh. you're the least hostile person in #lisp :) 21:56:31 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.176.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:56:54 schmx: Ah, now your nick looks more familiar. You're the one who stood up the wonderful party at my niece's place! Shame on you! 21:57:09 -!- zomgbie_ [~jesus@188.45.176.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:57:12 does anybody know if i can i defmethod at runtime with an specialized parameter whose type is only known at runtime? maybe using something other than defmethod? 21:57:28 schmx: Ah, cool. I've got some of my closer classmates down in Kristianstad 21:57:56 beach: correct! with tic 21:58:27 schmx: Wrong! tic was there, and he had a great time! 21:58:35 beach: thats what I meant! 21:58:41 Oh, OK. 21:58:56 beach: I'd make more sense but my wifi is making life hard 21:59:04 gigamonkey [~user@c-98-248-194-46.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:59:05 schmx: You will have an opportunity eventually. 21:59:28 schmx: (to meet my niece and her family I mean) 21:59:29 alright. I had forgotten exactly who has said what about the tears that will come to me for modifying class slots which aren't exposed publicly. 21:59:49 beach: (: I might hang out some with tic this weekend actually. doing manly things. 22:00:18 But I came to one conclusion: even though I've implemented it with a derived class, it really makes no difference whether I access the slots directly, or bypass their accessors. If the slot name changes in a future release, the intended consequence will be lost. 22:00:28 schmx: I am sure that if you talk to tic and mathrick you might *really* want to do it next time. 22:00:49 beach: I believe me and tic would have ruined the party by trying to lift things. 22:00:50 beach: wait, what are we talking aboiut? 22:00:51 schmx: "manly things"? 22:00:57 jleija: you can add a method procedurally.. but I've never had to do that 22:01:05 beach: lifting things off of the ground and putting them back again. 22:01:28 in short, I will get tears in my eyes one day. There is no way around it =) 22:01:45 beach: oh, sweden and parties 22:01:46 mathrick: schmx snobbed the invitation to my niece's place. 22:01:48 adeht: can you point me to a related function to do that? or maybe i'll change my signature in a macro i'm working with 22:01:51 right, it was a very fine event :) 22:02:21 -!- schmx is now known as schmrkc 22:02:22 jleija: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/b692l/anyone_for_perl_6_metaprogramming/c0l794g 22:02:45 schmx: Doing "manly things" would have been inappropriate indeed. 22:03:32 schmrkc: lifting things and putting them back on the ground is not something I do at parties a lot 22:03:39 mathrick: Whew! I was afraid you had forgotten. The niece and her family recently visited us in Bx. 22:03:50 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 22:04:11 beach: nah, I thought it was it, but wanted to make sure before I had the time to parse the log 22:04:16 beach: sounds good 22:04:30 adeht: thanks. i'm trying to do (observe instance slot &body) to implement a callback when a slot changes, so i thought about adding an :around method on the instance setf to call the observers 22:04:31 though french is even more foreign to me than skånska 22:04:34 :) 22:05:06 jleija: check out slot-value-using-class 22:05:44 mathrick: Of course. Think of Skånska as a linear combination of Swedish and Danish, but not a variety of either one. 22:05:44 *schmrkc* curses qwerty 22:05:45 -!- TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-75-83-191-189.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:06:14 beach: it's annoyingly close to swedish, which is the wrong part of the spectrum for me 22:06:34 schmrkc: We must really plan to get together. You are too elusive for my taste. 22:06:48 I'd probably be lost at bornholmsk already, which is really a skånska dialect as well 22:07:05 it's just a danish skånska 22:07:10 mathrick: I can't sympathize. I have no clue since I grew up with it. 22:07:34 adeht: ok. thanks again. i'll try that 22:07:55 beach: I wouldn't expect you to. But it's probably a similar deal with Danish for you, no? 22:08:05 mathrick: I must go to Bornholm some time. I think it would give me some clue. 22:08:43 mathrick: Probably. It's in my blood, or at least in my brain from the age of 5 or so. 22:08:55 beach: danish or skånska now? 22:09:04 and what did you speak before that? 22:09:09 mathrick: You go to the wrong parties :)))) 22:09:23 beach: I agree. Im really not that elusive. Just sometimes. 22:09:36 schmrkc: I dunno, the parties I go to usually have beer. That's usually a good start, too :) 22:09:50 -!- burton` [~user@calgary.userful.ca] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:09:56 mathrick: Skånska because that's my native language. Danish, because I watched Danish TV and shopped in Dragør each week with my mother. 22:10:10 burton` [~user@calgary.userful.ca] has joined #lisp 22:10:17 beach: ahh, right 22:10:20 mathrick: oooh.. different strokes.. 22:10:37 I was confused by the notion of not speaking skånska before you were 5, which was not the case 22:11:00 beach: but yeah, most danes here are also pretty good at understanding swedish because of the tv and shopping 22:11:32 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@port-9113.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:11:50 mathrick: But they don't understand Skånska very well as it turns out. And that's a big disappointment to me. 22:12:03 oh, interesting 22:12:16 Yeah. 22:12:29 beach: I can hear the difference very well, but both swedish and skånska are a mystery to me when it gets to understanding them 22:12:35 We had a girl from östersund living here for some months. it took here a month before she understood what we said 22:12:59 schmrkc: s/here/her/? 22:13:35 -!- gigamonkey [~user@c-98-248-194-46.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:13:45 schmrkc: When I moved to Linköping, I had to alter my pronunciation in order for people to understand me. :( 22:13:48 right. took her a month 22:14:04 beach: This has me worried. We are planning a move up north :S 22:14:09 and I need to work with people 22:14:22 schmrkc: I read it as öresund and was very confused 22:14:48 schmrkc: Not a problem. You can do it. Just count on having to alter your pronunciation. 22:15:04 schmrkc: How far north? 22:16:01 mathrick: hahaha 22:16:07 beach: örebro 22:16:29 reeeeeally far up 22:16:33 -!- jleija is now known as jleija_away 22:17:12 schmrkc: Not too big a deal. I lived in Västerås for 3 years, no problem. But then I had already been through Linköping and Göteborg. 22:17:43 schmrkc: do all swedish geographic names start with ö? 22:18:00 mathrick: Not Skåne. 22:18:14 probably why they can't understand you 22:18:47 mathrick: yes 22:19:05 beach: it is 4 years or something. we will survive 22:19:08 stephenry [~user@cpc2-grnk1-0-0-cust713.renf.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 22:19:13 FOR SPARTA 22:19:29 heh, in 4 years you should be good at getting yourself understood 22:19:40 I managed to get danes to understand me in this timeframe 22:19:42 you'll be fine 22:20:02 schmrkc: You will. And since I now know mathrick I know he is just making fun. Gee, you really missed out on that party. 22:20:13 it sounds like it :) 22:20:21 I dont even remember what I was doing that day 22:20:56 schmrkc: Some silly excuse that you didn't want to meet us. Now you pay for it. 22:22:24 -!- bleakgadfly [~cato@168.81-166-171.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:22:37 hahahaha 22:22:41 :( 22:22:58 I am pretty sure that is not the excuse I had :) 22:23:23 beach: so are you suggesting there are more parties coming up? :) 22:23:28 -!- astalla [~astalla@93-36-227-114.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 22:24:09 mathrick: there's a lift stuff off the ground and put it back again meet up this weekend! 22:24:55 abend [~alx@delta.muted.org] has joined #lisp 22:24:57 ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:25:50 I can't find it. I want to oblige the macro to end with a specific symbol but can't put anything afetr &body (I could use &whole but that must start the macro, i want to start it with a test) 22:26:51 francogrex: you'll need to do it yourself 22:27:21 member and ldiff help 22:27:23 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:27:25 mathrick: Where I am, there is always a party coming up! 22:27:31 right. make the macro check that end is at the end. 22:28:20 mathrick: In the near future, many parties might be in Vietnam (I hope). 22:31:35 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.know.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 22:31:48 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-197-22.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:31:50 beach: that's kinda very much not where I am 22:33:55 -!- zfx [1028@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:35:42 mathrick: Nowadays, there are things we call "air travels". 22:36:20 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 22:36:25 beach: yeah, there are also "tickets" which "cost" "money" 22:36:40 Bah! :) 22:36:47 hopefully I'll be less peniless once I'm done with my thesis 22:36:52 but that's not yet 22:37:27 Yeah, good plan. In the meantime, do what I did, i.e., get some professor to pay for your travels. 22:37:30 dialtone [~dialtone@70.36.244.244] has joined #lisp 22:37:30 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@70.36.244.244] has quit [Changing host] 22:37:30 dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 22:37:34 -!- stephenry [~user@cpc2-grnk1-0-0-cust713.renf.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:44:24 -!- merach [~merach@c-71-199-6-23.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:44:35 these air travels.. 22:44:59 always when Im in sthlm or so I meet a ton of 17 year olds from all over the world. "oh we just here for the weekend. flight was cheap" 22:45:36 -!- ][V][ICHAEL [~user@207.178.208.5] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:46:37 -!- vtz [~user@router2-border.mreja.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:51:13 -!- varjag [~eugene@84.118.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:51:35 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 22:52:41 adeht: ok 22:53:40 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Quit: HULK ANGRY! HULK DISCONNECT!] 22:54:32 Guest23462 [~user@xdsl-84-44-252-26.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:54:36 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 22:55:06 -!- Guest23462 [~user@xdsl-84-44-252-26.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:55:10 -!- cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:55:17 schmrkc: Perhaps we can get Skåne to adopt the Euro. Then foreign air travels will seem cheap to everyone. 22:55:59 keyword is *seem* ;P 22:56:07 schmrkc: I am trying my best by asking in each store in Malmø: "kan jag betala med euros?". 22:57:05 homie [~user@xdsl-84-44-252-26.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:58:44 cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 23:02:40 beach: I think some stores actually do. it would be nice 23:04:06 ryan air is pretty cheap I think 23:04:19 ryanair looks cheap 23:04:22 but it's not 23:04:35 They strip out all the charges then add them at the end 23:04:53 interesting 23:05:00 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.130.63] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:05:02 I wonder what all the 17 yr olds fly with then 23:05:22 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-84-44-252-26.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:05:23 They are still reasonably priced, just not as cheap as they look on first glance 23:06:00 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 23:06:00 symbole [~symbole@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:06:09 symbole_ [~symbole@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:06:12 schmrkc: that's an age where you don't easily get annoyed by too-little space in the seats, or the mad maxian battle for the good seats when boarding (: 23:06:37 schmrkc: Ryanair also has a history of being a dick to customers... 23:07:06 -!- symbole_ [~symbole@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:07:22 antifuchs: ya. It seems they pretty much just fly from spain or something to stockholm for partying over the weekend 23:08:04 (it makes no sense) 23:08:56 heh 23:09:19 who knows what makes sense in teenagers' minds (: 23:09:29 wigflip, inc 23:09:35 (only french teenagers though) 23:09:38 as for flying... if you book ahead, there's usually no reason not to go with "classic" airline 23:11:06 so far, I had booked tickets with cheap airline twice (including the flight the day after tommorrow) and happened to be taken on board FlyBe as BA passenger... I don't plan on making more use of "cheap" airlines 23:12:07 sounds bad 23:12:11 Lis [~Lis@business-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 23:12:18 I've had good experiences with easyjet, air berlin and, to a lesser extent, sky europe. 23:12:37 *p_l* is a card-carrying KLM/AirFrance customer 23:13:19 Hi all. If I do (load "C:\\Users\\Lis\\Documents\\work\\cffi_0.10.5\\cffi.asd") I get Error: Unbound variable: CFFI I'm on ccl 1.5 does someone know what causes this error? 23:14:26 *schmrkc* has no idea 23:14:43 what kind of file is it? 23:14:58 What do you mean by that? 23:15:20 its an asd file?!? 23:15:40 Lis: why do you load it? 23:15:54 Lis: you don't usually load .asd files directly. 23:15:54 Lis: you should use (asdf:load-system 'cffi) instead 23:16:09 becouse someone told me I can load asd files that way 23:16:15 someone in this channel 23:16:36 hm and how do I load asd files with pathname? 23:17:23 -!- asarch [~asarch@187.132.135.137] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:18:17 Lis: you put the path to it in asdf:Ä*central-registry* 23:18:19 hmm 23:18:25 my irssi got messed up I see 23:18:27 p_l: what? no LOT ? 23:20:06 Avisch [~Avisch@cpe-24-93-16-141.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:23:33 Fare: LOT is fucking expensive :D (also, technically, I flown LOT when I booked with BA) 23:24:30 -!- ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:24:39 -!- levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:24:55 (basically, take BA price for the flight and change it to PLN, you get LOT price) 23:27:23 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-26-61-18.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 23:29:45 ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:32:46 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:39:09 abugosh [~Adium@96.241.34.92] has joined #lisp 23:42:31 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:42:43 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.know.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:53:25 -!- eldragon is now known as worldhlord 23:54:31 -!- aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:57:41 -!- rrice [~rrice@adsl-99-164-35-250.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:59:16 Demosthenes [~demo@dhcp184-49-168-47.univ.buf.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 23:59:56 Xach: as i was saying, i'll owe you steak if i'm within an hour drive