00:00:52 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:01:07 -!- jan247_ [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247_] 00:01:09 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 00:02:28 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.73.184] has joined #lisp 00:02:34 -!- rottenrecords [~rottenrec@pool-108-13-54-97.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:02:48 mejja [~user@c-14bee555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 00:03:37 eihrul [~eihrul@ip72-193-224-224.lv.lv.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:07:37 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.150.8] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:08:47 plediii_ [~plediii@99.185.121.53] has joined #lisp 00:11:59 -!- plediii [~plediii@adsl-99-88-239-16.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:11:59 -!- plediii_ is now known as plediii 00:12:07 zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:50 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:13:20 zophy-ng [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:29 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.92.172.158] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:13:34 -!- zophy-ng [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:19:47 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:25:37 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.58.144] has joined #lisp 00:28:03 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 00:36:11 Avisch [~Avisch@rrcs-72-45-225-68.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:39:30 -!- manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:41:36 lm3620 [lm3620@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-bjrsjwypxnizxabc] has joined #lisp 00:42:31 I got the my virtual lisp machine to get to the screen that says DIS-LOCAL-HOST but then it freezes does anyone down why? 00:42:58 I am using og2 with snap4 00:43:22 How long should it be taking for snap4 to load open genera 2.0 00:44:07 It is locking down my Ubuntu so I need to do a hard reboot to stop snap4. 00:44:39 Is thier anyone here who can help me get my opengenera vlod file to load. 00:44:41 manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:45:52 snap4 is a closed source piece of crap, and this is _free_node 00:45:57 I am using the steps on this lisp web site: http://www.advogato.org/person/johnw/diary.html?start=12 00:49:03 -!- urandom_ [~user@p548A7C33.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:51:28 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:57:46 Did anyone here get the snap4 lisp environment to work? Log long should it take to load when it gets to the DIS-LOCAL-HOST screen. 00:58:07 lm3620: I recommend you give up - snap4 is *incredibly* buggy software because it wasn't even written for linux 00:58:49 if you want to run OG2 reliably, get a second hand alpha with graphic card and get a copy of Tru64 with X11 00:59:58 Can I get a Tru64 emulator. 01:00:02 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:01:00 nope, none of the available Alpha emulators have graphics 01:01:25 or contact brad parker and offer him help fixing the sources to run on modern linux 01:01:45 I may do that. 01:02:15 But I am a noivce C programmer. I am better with Lisp, and I am betting most of the program is written in C. 01:02:22 or forget about it and write modern software in Lisp 01:03:05 lm3620: VLM2 is actually written in alpha assembly 01:03:25 snap4 is what happens when you run VLM2 binary through a decompiler that outputs C 01:03:37 and believe me, it screws the code heavily 01:03:52 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:04:13 -!- mejja [~user@c-14bee555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:04:19 asarch [~asarch@189.188.150.8] has joined #lisp 01:04:23 Yep. I may give up on it, or try to help brad rewrite it to genrate lisp code. 01:04:43 lm3620: Can I interest you in a TI explorer emulator instead? 01:05:32 nyef, do you have source tapes for the TI code? 01:05:41 nyef: yes you can. 01:05:55 does it work. without to much head ache. 01:06:04 Fare: Not the microcode or related utilities, but that shouldn't be too hard to reverse-engineer (famous last words). 01:06:11 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:06:13 I kind of want to play around with a lisp machine. 01:06:20 you can ran CADR emulator 01:06:22 also 01:06:26 lm3620: It... needs a little love. You'll probably need to fix up the keyboard and mouse emulation, for example. 01:06:57 nyef: that is cool, as long as it doesn't freeze my machine. Where can I download it? 01:07:43 http://www.lisphacker.com/projects/nevermore/ 01:08:37 ... There might have been a more recent source archive, but I'd have to look in a few places to be sure, and I'm not up for that right now. 01:08:38 thank you nyef 01:09:05 Anyway, Nevermore, Meroko, or the CADR emulator might help you. 01:09:31 i remember being more happy with CADR emulator than with OpenGenera 01:09:57 where can I find the rom or disk images for the TP 01:09:59 *TI 01:10:04 That said, my epiphany (fifteen minutes before Nevermore managed to boot lisp) was that I'd been using SBCL, emacs, and SLIME, and they worked sufficiently well together that I really didn't need a lisp machine emulator after all. 01:10:22 Umm... Right, forgot about that? 01:10:52 I don't think I even have my TI ROM collection on an accessible disk right now. 01:11:38 nyef: you had thought the lisp machine emulator might serve a useful purpose? being emulated wouldn't it be slow as hell? not to mention decades old? 01:11:52 oh. when will it be back on line. 01:12:11 TomJ: I was looking for programmer productivity at the time, and had read all of these great things about lisp machines. 01:12:28 using it as an IDE basically? 01:12:33 I heard about Lisp machines and was hopinh to play with one. 01:12:49 My epiphany basically was: I've been using the modern equivalent to a lisp machine environment to develop the bloody emulator... so why the heck do I need the emulator. 01:13:15 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:13:27 syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-111-84.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:13:29 improving slime is a better goal indeed 01:13:31 At which point I declared that I was done, and didn't need to finish the emulator, only to have dseagrav (the Meroko author) talk me into continuing. 01:13:33 -!- JuanDaugherty [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:13:51 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:14:28 Fifteen minutes later, I had a lisp prompt. Only reason dseagrav took another couple hours to get Meroko to the same place was that he had been in the middle of a large refactoring at the time. 01:15:04 nice. do you know when you will have TI explorer roms back up. 01:15:31 lm3620: you still can run CADR without waiting for the roms 01:15:49 I am downloading the CADR emulator right now. 01:17:00 I don't know that I'll -bother- having the TI roms and disk images back up. 01:17:12 I'm basically done with that phase of my life. 01:19:14 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 01:20:12 dmiles [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:20:13 JuanDaugherty [~juan@mobile-166-137-137-206.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 01:21:00 Still, it was fun to do, and led me to #lisp and SBCL hacking. 01:23:22 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:24:34 slyrus: blog down? 01:25:22 -!- Komi [Komi@83.231.20.63] has quit [] 01:26:39 Xach: can you fit your demo in 5 minutes tomorrow? Do you require more? 01:26:49 Also, looking for a speaker in August 01:27:06 Fare: Yeah. 01:27:16 I'll plan on lightning talk timeframe. 01:28:00 I guess I'll just use the CADR emulator for now, and a real Lisp 01:28:17 I'm looking for someone to replace me with the Boston Lisp Meetings 01:28:27 I don't have the energy for that these days. 01:29:26 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 01:30:32 -!- lm3620 [lm3620@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-bjrsjwypxnizxabc] has quit [Quit: ircII EPIC4-2.6 -- Are we there yet?] 01:31:01 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.194.232] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 01:33:27 asdf maintainership has made you feel burned out? :-) 01:35:57 *tcr* comes accross a "caddr_t" in libpcap sources 01:36:32 It's a synonym for char*, how quaint 01:37:24 smug lisp weenies, they're everywhere 01:37:30 -!- TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@124-171-193-166.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 01:39:11 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.77.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:41:01 -!- dnolen__ [~dnolen@pool-71-247-120-79.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen__] 01:42:30 stassats: right, distorting bad hungarian notation into prefix notation. 01:42:51 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:46:40 -!- TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-75-83-191-189.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:48:01 static type systems without ad-hoc polymorphism seems to be a chore :-) 01:53:15 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.150.8] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:54:37 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-254-230.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 02:00:28 derrida [~derrida@unaffiliated/deleuze] has joined #lisp 02:00:40 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 02:01:03 Does anyone know of a nice way to access rs-232 serial from CL? 02:01:18 -!- manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:01:36 derrida: with-open-file? 02:01:40 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 02:01:51 lol 02:01:57 pkhuong: touche :P 02:02:26 tau [~lksjd@189-127-48-221.i-next.psi.br] has joined #lisp 02:02:30 -!- tau [~lksjd@189-127-48-221.i-next.psi.br] has left #lisp 02:02:59 That'd be the nice way. You might also be able to arrange for direct access to the UART, depending on your environment. 02:04:03 I have a very old pen plotter and I was going to try to port this http://music.columbia.edu/cmc/chiplotle/ 02:05:15 -!- eihrul [~eihrul@ip72-193-224-224.lv.lv.cox.net] has left #lisp 02:05:24 derrida: also you might want to use few ioctls 02:08:16 hm 02:08:51 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 02:09:21 If you're using IOCTL from Linux, you might find some of the lh-usb code to be of interest. 02:09:37 http://www.lisphacker.com/projects/lh-usb/ 02:16:51 nyef: thank you, i was just looking at this: http://www.lisphacker.com/temp/sb-usb.lisp 02:17:16 i am using Linux 02:17:42 nyef: oh same project hehe :) 02:18:35 -!- plediii [~plediii@99.185.121.53] has quit [Quit: plediii] 02:18:56 Yeah, just... lh-usb is better packaged. 02:19:02 And someone did a CFFI version. 02:19:14 I forget why they wanted it, though. 02:19:31 this looks very helpful 02:20:50 It was to me, and may be again (I still have the mp3 player I wrote it for). 02:21:35 I had some initial exploration towards interrupt transfer support, dunno if that's in there. 02:22:05 (Didn't bother with isochronous transfers, it's not like I'll need to talk to any device like that and not go through ALSA or V4L or whatever.) 02:24:53 hmmm.... I wonder how hard it would be to implement raw 1394 communication 02:25:27 Heh. Is there a raw 1394 interface for the linux kernel? 02:26:09 (Man, I need to get a firewire cable one of these days. I have three machines with such ports, target disk mode exists, and I have no cables.) 02:40:46 -!- Avisch [~Avisch@rrcs-72-45-225-68.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:43:51 Hey guys, I'm new to lisp. I'm having problems with packages in CLISP. I download a source file say solitaire.lisp from http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/small-cl-pgms/solitaire.lisp and it compiles just fine in emacs with slime loaded. When I go to the repl and in-package that works (changes from cl-user> to solitaire>) but the moment I call main slime gives me undefined function error. I've tried creating a one function package 02:45:12 TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-75-83-191-189.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:47:04 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:47:29 compiles? did you load it? 02:47:45 the easiest way is to do C-c C-k on it 02:48:47 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-64-200-182.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:49:25 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 02:49:38 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-64-200-182.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 02:50:15 Hot damn. 02:50:43 Thanks for that stassats. C-c C-k. Makes all the difference. I'm a moron. 02:50:48 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.58.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:51:19 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.58.144] has joined #lisp 02:53:43 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-129-229.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 02:54:21 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 03:05:34 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-111-84.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:07:49 -!- symbole [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:11:53 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:12:52 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:14:18 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:14:24 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:14:54 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 03:15:22 plediii [~plediii@adsl-99-185-121-53.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:16:01 -!- zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:21:06 -!- plediii [~plediii@adsl-99-185-121-53.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: plediii] 03:21:06 -!- dmiles [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:21:29 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:22:52 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 03:23:43 -!- ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:25:08 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:25:10 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:25:21 nibiru [nibiru@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-lxggzzmreourfgnw] has joined #lisp 03:26:25 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-bdryzyeiuddjsrzy] has joined #lisp 03:27:00 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:27:02 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:27:20 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 03:29:24 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.122.48] has joined #lisp 03:36:03 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:36:04 -!- cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: 'bye.] 03:36:30 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:38:01 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 03:38:27 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 03:40:37 symbole [~symbole@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:41:52 -!- symbole [~symbole@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:42:22 symbole [~symbole@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:42:46 -!- symbole [~symbole@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:43:53 symbole [~symbole@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:46:28 ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:48:16 bigjust [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:51:28 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:51:40 -!- symbole [~symbole@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:52:03 symbole [~symbole@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:57:16 -!- Guthur [~michael@host86-148-29-214.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:00:16 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:05:48 -!- Spewns [~jake@97-92-222-240.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:10:53 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:11:28 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 04:13:01 -!- ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:15:50 How practical is CLOS? I'm just starting out with LISP, and was wondering how many LISP programmers actually have used or use CLOS in real-life situations ... 04:16:22 extremely practical 04:16:35 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.122.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:17:13 any serious Lisp programmer uses CLOS one way or another 04:17:21 stassats, interesting. 04:18:23 I like the way CLOS forces me to think about OOP in a more general and logical manner. 04:19:04 For a while I thought OOP was only about foo.bar (). 04:20:33 -!- nibiru [nibiru@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-lxggzzmreourfgnw] has left #lisp 04:21:25 thanks Xach. respinning sbcl. the latest build (that I used) feels much less stable than what I had for the previous couple months. 04:23:38 is there a DSL that's been done for slurping and validating HTML form data? 04:23:55 after all, there can only be so many things one can express in HTML forms. 04:24:04 a DSL? 04:24:41 domain specific language. e.g. (process '("Name" "Age-time" "Sex-bit) ... ) 04:25:10 that example was very crummy. but just an already thought of manner of expressing data fields and their associated expected behaviours, domains and formats 04:25:34 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 04:27:14 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:28:37 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 04:28:57 Good morning everyone! 04:29:48 sanjoyd: Pretty much every serious Lisp (and not LISP) program uses object-oriented programming techniques. 04:30:52 and some are even using MOP 04:37:40 sanjoyd: What made you think otherwise? 04:41:52 beach: do haskell type classes count? 04:42:03 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-23-156.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:42:35 Fare: As what? Object-oriented programming? I don't know. 04:44:20 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-29-240.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 04:48:10 grumble grumble... anyone else find cl-store to be broken on recent sbcls? 04:53:23 ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:54:55 argh... failing contribs on x86-64/darwin. this isn't going well tonight. 04:57:01 -!- TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-75-83-191-189.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:00:18 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 05:00:46 lemme guess... no getprotobyname_r in darwin? 05:00:54 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 05:02:53 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:03:14 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:03:19 lichtblau: herep 05:04:08 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 05:08:53 ice_man [~user@CPE000d6074b550-CM001a66704e52.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 05:09:11 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:11:10 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 05:13:10 Fare: why wouldn't they? 05:13:51 Well, it depends on how you define OOP. 05:14:05 OOP seems to be mostly about procedural abstraction. 05:14:51 There was an interesting paper about what ADT means a while back. 05:15:57 -!- bigjust [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:17:49 huangjs [~user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has joined #lisp 05:18:21 http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/3668 on ADTs vs objects. 05:21:43 *fusss* really wants an xpath expression to select siblings of an element that has a certain attribute but can't thinks straigh 05:24:02 $('.class ~ siblings'); in plexxibus-xpath :-S 05:30:45 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:30:45 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 05:31:36 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-bdryzyeiuddjsrzy] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:32:24 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 05:34:32 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 05:38:56 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c122-106-121-61.rivrw6.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 05:39:07 dlowe [~dlowe@c122-106-121-61.rivrw6.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 05:45:13 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:47:50 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:48:41 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-tyusrhjisdobwsay] has joined #lisp 05:55:21 Davse_Bamse [~davse@82.103.143.161] has joined #lisp 05:55:56 -!- Samy [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-49.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:56:36 Samy [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-49.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:58:19 timor [~timor@port-92-195-141-141.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 06:01:53 manuel_ [~manuel@p54B8F776.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:03:08 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:08:34 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:08:39 -!- jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: jhalogen] 06:09:10 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 06:10:45 -!- ice_man [~user@CPE000d6074b550-CM001a66704e52.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:12:26 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:12:49 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 06:14:11 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-kgkucrfiymhyqvcq] has joined #lisp 06:15:12 -!- manuel_ [~manuel@p54B8F776.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: manuel_] 06:15:51 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:18:43 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 06:18:45 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:19:27 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 06:19:27 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:21:10 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:50:35 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 14:50:35 14:50:35 -!- names: ccl-logbot stassats prima_lux slyrus fusss urandom_ rdd stepnem manic12 wbooze homie beach xinming_ relcomp mcsontos jhalogen plediii Rearden rvirding Bronsa abeaumont bzzbzz bobbysmith007 tayloj kiuma hargettp dto tritchey NNshag Jasko asarch schmrkc barcon332 timor nowhere_man Guthur cmsimon ephcon boyscared Yuuhi zc00gii Spewns mqt mathrick jmcphers Levenson nha cmm Jabberwockey hydo levente_meszaros fe[nl]ix delYsid mstevens daniel__ Axioplase_ 14:50:35 -!- names: BrianRice gravicappa zomgbie hlavaty fiveop housel bozhidar mega1 pdelgallego nibiru MetalDust jdz kleppari vtz TraumaPony sellout Soulman1 lhz mvilleneuve ace4016 cataska mrSpec ASau Samy rahul didi legumbre dmiles_afk derrida sanjoyd JuanDaugherty holycow Xach s0ber pchrist lonstein benny arbscht DrForr scode Taggnostr merAch cisticola lichtblau lusory e-future codewad Shaftoe_ lat pjb christoph_debian Hraban adeht rootzlevel Beetny salva pkhuong Fade 14:50:35 -!- names: cinch sdkmvx Tasunteld slyrus_ Krystof rtoym lolsuper_ m4thrick slava koollman Revolve pr tomaw fualo acieroid` setheus stettberger ve tsuru deepfire Tanami Euthydemus leviathan abend cmeow Yamazaki-kun billstclair prip Eno_ hugod zfx ``Erik burton` Buganini marienz gz antifuchs Dodek bgs100 cupe xristos cthuluh Amadiro Tordek nixeagle pp206 eno oconnore TomJ Dazhbog AntiSpamMeta spacebat lnostdal sad0ur tcr sid3k Madsy phadthai burton MrWGW johanbev 14:50:35 -!- names: hanneso kencausey amaron herbieB ojuice levene rsynnott Zhivago luis PissedNumlock qsun Pepe_ rotty tvaalen pok Adrinael joga cpt_nemo gonzojive pkhuong_ felipe _3b` erk__ codemonkeyx yacin golgotha tychoish nullman p_l mtd Aisling galdor turbo24prg clog franki- hc_e erg djinni`` _3b l_a_m ski zbigniew rlpowell easyE Ginei_Morioka Deltafire frodef aoh joast Tabmow inklesspen jrockway andreer fda314925 fmu ASau`` kloeri ineiros Obfuscate Intensity kuwabara 14:50:35 -!- names: nuba eli dejones johs gzip4 tltstc djm reb jpanest tic rread qebab mal__ bougyman Salamander ramus vsync joshe Ralith spiaggia Patzy Holcxjo eldragon hohum cods Khisanth yahooooo z0d srcerer clop mornfall rapacity nasloc__ hdurer_ araujo sykopomp svitalnes dcrawford foom bfein gnooth Draggor lharc kvsari rlb3 minion emma ecraven Anarch ianmcorvidae Odin- [df] lemoinem redline6561 syntaxman krappie xavieran Xof Xantoz djdatavirusd627 dym_ jsnell chiiph 14:50:35 -!- names: specbot lisppaste Tristam OliverUv cYmen 14:50:54 -!- abend [~alx@76.76.146.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:52:23 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-141-141.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:54:13 Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 14:54:22 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 14:56:39 -!- bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has quit [Quit: Asta la vista] 14:59:19 jmbr [~jmbr@149.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 15:01:13 -!- lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 15:01:16 lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #lisp 15:02:38 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:04:51 manuel_ [~manuel_@p54B8F776.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:05:40 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:06:37 dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:07:44 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:09:38 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:09:44 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:10:59 milanj [~milanj_@109.92.183.188] has joined #lisp 15:17:23 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 15:18:39 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 15:20:25 is it possible that I make sb-ext:run-program leak resources (pipes, handles etc) 15:20:27 ? 15:20:31 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:21:07 I have a long running process htat calls rrdtool every minute or so, and even though the memory usage of the application is well behaved, it eventually gives an out of resource error when trying to call sb-ext:run-program 15:21:08 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 15:21:46 peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-126-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 15:23:32 Shaftoe_: hmm, I use sb-ext:run-program an awful lot on my site, and the process runs for weeks or months at a time. 15:23:52 Shaftoe_: I've never had an resource-related error come up. Is the error more specific? 15:24:12 is there something I could be doing that would make it hold on to resources somhow? 15:24:29 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:24:50 I don't know of anything like that. 15:25:08 I will have to wait until it happens again to get a literal string of what the error is. Otherwise, I can just say it's something like "not enough memory to call fork" 15:26:23 is it enough? 15:26:43 alright. I will investigate more. 15:27:03 the interesting thing is that the lisp image memory usage is quite within normal bounds. 15:29:42 and fork is CoW, IIRC 15:29:44 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 15:30:42 stassats: in very low-memory situations, you can probably cause fork to run out of mem, too 15:30:49 Shaftoe_: are you reaping your children? 15:31:00 Shaftoe_: that is, do you call run-program with :wait nil? 15:31:07 no I am not doing anything explicit after I call run-program. 15:31:13 no. 15:31:17 should I be doing that? 15:31:49 hm, you would need to use waitpid to reap the child if you used :wait nil 15:31:57 but if you're using the default, it should do that for you 15:32:58 would unreaped children show up in the process list? 15:33:10 as zombies 15:33:24 abend [~alx@67.136.131.11] has joined #lisp 15:33:58 other than that, maybe something leaks process structures 15:34:08 could they referenced from the c stack or something? 15:34:22 hmm. I just noticed that one of my calls had a :error *standard-output* specified. 15:34:27 I wonder if that could be doing it 15:34:50 but my expectation of that behaviour would be that the pipe would close and then would be gc'd 15:34:59 I'm going to remove that and see what happens. 15:37:20 pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has joined #lisp 15:37:21 -!- manuel_ [~manuel_@p54B8F776.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 15:37:54 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:40:08 stassats: btw, I see no zombies. 15:40:26 maybe they're behind you 15:40:30 lol 15:40:40 or under your desk 15:40:45 good one. I really wasn't expecting that. 15:40:59 alright. I'm going to let it run for a few hours. 15:41:09 plotting to make a mess of your pots and pans 15:41:18 it consistently happens within an hour or two, so it should be quick to see if the :error key had anything to do with it. 15:42:09 *sigh* 15:42:18 -!- vtz [~user@client-73-37-12.speedy-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:42:46 minion: Where are the zombies? 15:42:47 behind you! 15:42:51 There you go! 15:43:57 Shaftoe_: how do you measure that the lisp image memory usage is normal? 15:44:00 minion truly has an answer for everything 15:44:06 (room). 15:44:29 this is what I mean by normal: without this monitoring, the room hovers around a 120 meg image. 15:44:35 90~120 15:44:56 with the monitoring, the room shows nothing significantly different 15:45:48 loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has joined #lisp 15:46:28 but eventually chokes with an error that also freezes my clsql/odbc connection (rendering the lisp image useless) 15:47:10 this is all preliminary though. For all I know, maybe there is no causality. I was just checking if there was some sort of cleanup I was meant to do that I was not doing. 15:47:21 I will monitor with various configs and try to narrow down to something intelligent. 15:47:29 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 15:47:57 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest1601 15:48:43 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:48:52 bytecolor [~user@adsl-71-137-202-62.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 15:49:51 zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 15:49:57 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 15:52:08 xan_ [~xan@145.52.241.98] has joined #lisp 15:52:56 qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has joined #lisp 15:54:47 -!- loxs [~loxs@85-130-37-174.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:55:21 cowhm [~cowhm@70.sub-97-154-133.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 15:55:45 Where is Scott McKay when I need him? 15:56:05 -!- Guest1601 [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 15:56:24 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-194-248.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:57:06 beach: in Boston, probably 15:58:03 Maybe so, yes. 15:58:06 getting ready for lunch, one would suspect 15:58:13 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@chello212186106204.11.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:58:24 maybe burning google share certificates to light a fat cigar 15:58:52 I can definitely imagine that. 15:59:13 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-194-248.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:00:24 Speaking of which, we don't really know whether Google thinks the technology is significant or not, do we? 16:01:22 I mean, companies don't "think", but "Google" it's shorthand for "the key people who are going to manage the integration". 16:04:01 symbole [~chatzilla@h-69-3-39-78.nycmny83.static.covad.net] has joined #lisp 16:04:26 beach: still, at least Google have an okay-ish track record for this sort of thing 16:04:32 if it were Microsoft, now.... 16:04:48 what are you refering to as "the technology" 16:04:56 Lisp 16:05:37 mhd [~mhd@cust-206-40-162-83.bos-static.gis.net] has joined #lisp 16:05:55 OliverUv: When Yahoo bought Viaweb from Paul Graham, the first thing they did was to rewrite everything in something like C++. 16:06:18 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:06:50 -!- dto1 is now known as dto 16:07:14 OliverUv: I have worked in industry (actually, I have worked with *people*) enough to see how that could happen. It would be a major blow if it happened this time, and perhaps a bit of a push if it did not. 16:07:48 btw, I must say that I am very impressed with sbcl's general lack of memory leakage etc. calling gc just works. I don't know if I've had the joy of having that happen in any other commercial system 16:08:09 s/any/many/ 16:08:57 beach: when the issue was brought up, ITA people brought up the point that QPX is a very mature, very large codebase. It's unlikely Google would be willing to drop money to rewrite it 'just because' it's Lisp and not one of its blessed languages. 16:10:34 also, when PG sold Viaweb, PG and his partner were really the only ones that were able to make their way around Viaweb (and I assume Viaweb wasn't even that huge of a codebase...). QPX, on the other hand, has quite a few people still with the company that are able to handle the codebase as it is. 16:10:44 Shaftoe_: wait till you stump on the conservativeness 16:11:18 the issue was similar when Naughty Dog switched languages -- the only guy who really knew his way around their _unique_ development environment left the company -- there's not much you can do at that point. 16:11:21 sykopomp: I am willing to believe you. But now that I know that decisions like that are made by people, and that people are largely performance-oriented (see my essay), I totally understand who such decisions are made on a regular basis, despite the total stupidity in doing so. 16:11:22 stassats: you mean I start being less conservative? 16:11:37 What do you mean "this time", google just bought out another company? 16:11:51 Shaftoe_: no, sbcl's gc is conservative on x86oids 16:12:36 OliverUv: You need to get out more. Google just bought ITA, one of the few Lisp shops in the world, and a bigish one too. 16:12:36 OliverUv: they bought ITA. 16:12:52 ah that one 16:12:55 stassats: oh yah? As in it's safe in its actions? not aggressive in cleanup? 16:13:05 curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:06 OliverUv: Several (I imagine) people who come here work for ITA. 16:13:07 oh, I didn't know they were a lisp shop 16:13:26 Shaftoe_: as in it may leave something which may be collected 16:13:26 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.122.48] has joined #lisp 16:13:30 Oh, dear. You *definitely* need to hang out here more often. 16:13:41 recently some google CTO or other exec came out against Java and C++ 16:14:04 eh, not the CTO 16:14:11 http://news.techworld.com/applications/3232945/google-engineer-calls-java-and-c-too-complicated/ 16:14:33 stassats: I see. well, like I said, I'm duly impressed so far. My image, with nothing but code loaded and asdf:load-ops, is around 70megs. My room readouts vary from 70 to 120, inclusive. I mean, unless room is lying to me, that's pretty good work. 16:14:51 OliverUv: that's Rob Pike. You need to get out more. 16:14:56 OliverUv: Rob Pike is hardly neutral in this respect (I say without having read the rest). 16:15:07 stassats: I've worked with systems where it's just unimaginable to go back anywhere near your baseline after a few hours of operation. 16:15:08 Shaftoe_: there is no magic in garbage collection 16:15:52 OliverUv: and like beach pointed out -- he's not neutral. Go is his baby. 16:16:05 hm, he also complained about dynamic typing 16:16:35 so? 16:16:40 stassats: indeed, there isn't. However, there is magic in implicit assumptions. this is kinda why I'm always here asking questions that are borderline stupid. I've been burned over and over again by what seems like absurd assumptions by big libraries like ATL and the like. 16:16:41 i can complain about anything! 16:16:56 I have a complaint to file -- about Rob Pike's face. 16:17:01 I don't like it. I think it has problems. 16:17:09 I think people should invite me to speak at big conferences, instead. 16:17:13 (obvious solution) 16:17:27 <_3b`> sbcl GC is pretty easy to confuse, just use sb-concurrency with it for a while :p 16:17:31 -!- Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Planned down time ^^] 16:18:13 stassats: and by implicit assumption, I mean just things that are mysteriously expected by the programmer (for example, freeing some pipe after you've implicitly created it, even though you never use it, but because doing it automatically would mean that some race condition blah blah blah...) 16:18:19 OliverUv: In the domain of programming languages, you will find that people are less than objective. People without sufficient knowledge design languages, get them adopted by (ignorant) industry, then use unscientific arguments in favor of what they invented. 16:18:32 stassats: so yeah, I'm happy as a clam for now =) 16:18:46 and everybody forgets that it has all been done before 16:18:52 TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-75-83-191-189.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:19:01 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:19:03 so am i, but there is always a possibility to be happier! 16:19:32 OliverUv: We don't forget, but we overlook it because we all need to publish papers. 16:20:37 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 16:20:43 OliverUv: So we have papers like "how to add multiple dispatch to Java" or "How to add the possibility of adding new methods to existing classes in Java" as opposed to "Lisp knows how to do it, let's ditch Java". 16:21:00 stassats: spoken like a true Mathematician philosopher. The Archimedes axiom applied to happieness... 16:21:30 beach: I like it best when some feature from CL or other older language is stolen and re-badged as some amazing new java thing 16:22:18 _3b`: is that due to bugs in sb-concurrency? I'm interested in using sb-concurrency, so I'm curious how good (stable) it is. 16:22:24 (see Aspect-Oriented programming) 16:22:28 -!- TheLolrus is now known as TheLolrus-away 16:22:33 rsynnott: and then languishes unused... 16:23:18 Well, such features are usually introduced with terrible syntax or otherwise made basically unusable :) 16:23:46 <_3b`> lichtblau: i don't think it is a 'bug' exactly in sb-concurrency, but it interacts poorly with sbcl GC as written... easy to work around though 16:23:56 rsynnott: It's hard to complain about Kiczales stealing from CL... 16:24:16 <_3b`> lichtblau: aside from that i haven't had any problems with it 16:24:20 rpg: Indeed! 16:24:32 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:24:39 rpg: I don't mean that aspect-oriented programming is ripped off cl as such 16:24:50 rsynnott: I know what you mean, though... 16:24:56 It is kinda annoying. 16:24:57 more that the Java community tends to represent it as a magical new thing 16:25:06 and something which is theirs 16:25:13 There Is No Java Community 16:25:22 -!- xan_ [~xan@145.52.241.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:26:24 <_3b`> lichtblau: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.steel-bank.devel/14928 has details 16:26:32 yarel [~ask@unaffiliated/romani] has joined #lisp 16:26:37 -!- yarel [~ask@unaffiliated/romani] has left #lisp 16:27:43 ah, thanks, I recall I seeing that thread now. 16:28:02 But you haven't had concurrency-related crashes? 16:28:27 <_3b`> not that i recall 16:29:07 <_3b`> i haven't really exposed it to real-world stress though 16:30:13 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 16:30:50 <_3b`> just a few 'start a bunch of threads and have them send a bunch of packets to the server' tests, and using it for slime<->browser stuff 16:33:52 postamar [~postamar@x-132-204-33-247.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 16:34:23 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:36:12 lichtblau: did you see that _3b` wanted incremental heap allocation yesterday 16:36:48 *_3b`* wanted more restricted heap allocation 16:36:55 minion, chant 16:36:56 MORE THAT 16:37:04 bah 16:39:02 -!- sellout [~greg@gar31-3-82-234-48-135.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 16:40:59 timor [~timor@port-92-195-141-141.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 16:42:45 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-29-240.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:42:54 heh 16:43:03 well, you get that as a side effect 16:43:15 nothing to be incremental from if you're not more restricted to start with 16:43:20 <_3b`> right, not picky about how it is implemented :) 16:43:59 roygbiv [~None@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has joined #lisp 16:44:51 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-84-149.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 16:45:30 *Krystof* tries and largely fails to spur people into decisive action 16:45:48 froydnj [~froydnj@gateway.codesourcery.com] has joined #lisp 16:47:56 harget-1 [~haphazard@pool-71-174-129-171.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:48:01 -!- TheLolrus-away is now known as TheLolrus 16:48:08 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.122.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:48:13 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:48:51 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-129-171.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 16:49:01 -!- harget-1 [~haphazard@pool-71-174-129-171.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:49:26 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-129-171.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:49:41 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-129-171.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:50:02 TheEnd2012 [~TheEnd201@65.196.40.254] has joined #lisp 16:52:03 any way of getting around the fact something like (defvar functions (list (cons 'one #'one) (cons 'two #'two))) needs to be below the function definitions of one and two in the source file? 16:54:50 who's going to unbreak threaded darwin sbcl builds? 16:55:25 if it's left to me, .8 will look an awful lot like .6, so I'm hoping somebody else has time for a proper fix. 16:55:49 oh, did I forget to say: AAARRRRGGGHHHH!! 16:55:53 ah, much beter now. 16:56:35 OliverUv: don't use (function one), use (quote one) 16:56:42 (that's one way to get around it) 17:01:56 -!- djdatavirusd627 [~dj-datavi@c83-255-16-153.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:06:22 -!- zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:07:25 -!- hlavaty [~user@77-22-102-45-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:09:01 -!- rvirding [~rvirding@gamestudio.smart-lab.se] has left #lisp 17:12:02 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-155.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:12:03 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-99-155.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:12:06 vanechka [~tttt@217.118.66.102] has joined #lisp 17:12:14 ][V][ICHAEL [~user@207.178.208.5] has joined #lisp 17:14:16 -!- TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-75-83-191-189.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:14:42 *cmm* cannot see why anyone would want to claim AOP and other such spagettifying awfulness as an accomplishment 17:15:10 some associated techniques are occasionally useful 17:15:56 steven_t [~steven@unaffiliated/steven] has joined #lisp 17:15:57 hello 17:16:12 -!- vanechka [~tttt@217.118.66.102] has quit [Killed (idoru (Spam is off topic on freenode.))] 17:16:28 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:20:22 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:20:58 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-64-200-182.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:00 TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-75-83-191-189.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:29:49 -!- relcomp [~chatzilla@pc92-e03-3.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE] has left #lisp 17:30:01 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 17:30:12 -!- cupe [~cupe@mein.eigensex.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:30:24 cupe [~cupe@mein.eigensex.org] has joined #lisp 17:31:31 relcomp [~chatzilla@pc92-e03-3.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE] has joined #lisp 17:31:59 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:32:17 -!- cYmen [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:32:21 cYmen [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has joined #lisp 17:32:41 atzsts [~nullset@unaffiliated/atzsts] has joined #lisp 17:32:47 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:33:16 -!- bgs100 [cheshire@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-utihptsftlszmgek] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:33:25 -!- relcomp [~chatzilla@pc92-e03-3.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE] has left #lisp 17:33:44 varjag [~eugene@84.118.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 17:34:19 -!- jsnell [~jsnell@vasara.proghammer.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:34:22 jsnell [~jsnell@vasara.proghammer.com] has joined #lisp 17:34:59 -!- plediii [~plediii@nat-168-7-232-38.rice.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:39:33 plediii [~plediii@nat-168-7-232-38.rice.edu] has joined #lisp 17:41:12 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 17:44:15 -!- varjag [~eugene@84.118.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:44:49 Xach: doing 'myfun instead of #'myfun made the compiler delete a lot of "unreachable code" 17:44:52 :p 17:45:10 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:45:25 bgs000 [cheshire@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-wxtfizlxiddhysps] has joined #lisp 17:45:27 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-184-206-128.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:45:33 varjag [~eugene@84.118.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 17:46:11 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 17:46:40 nevermind that, there was another errror 17:49:35 how do I get access to the function after specifying it with quote instead of function though? 17:50:06 using (apply (fdefinition 'myfun) args) doesn't work 17:50:31 (funcall 'myfun arg1 arg2 ...) 17:51:55 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 17:52:48 ah, thanks! 17:52:52 clhs function designator 17:52:53 disregard everything I have said, though, eveyrthing is working now 17:53:04 though that is good to know, rtoym 17:54:55 I guess (apply 'myfun ...) would have worked too. 17:55:40 Lis [~Lis@business-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:58:28 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:58:35 5/act 17:58:43 -!- JuanDaugherty [~juan@mobile-166-137-137-206.mycingular.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:59:37 rtoym: yeah, I had another error in my code that I forgot I changed :p 18:01:37 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:02:39 plediii_ [~plediii@nat-168-7-232-38.rice.edu] has joined #lisp 18:04:14 JuanDaugherty [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:04:30 -!- plediii [~plediii@nat-168-7-232-38.rice.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:04:30 -!- plediii_ is now known as plediii 18:07:10 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:07:39 -!- nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:12:03 beach: do you happen to have the source code for that calendar app of yours lying around? 18:12:17 actually 18:12:22 nevermind, it had only one panel 18:12:47 when using many panels, would you suggest defvaring them globally? 18:12:57 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:13:32 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:14:30 -!- abend [~alx@67.136.131.11] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 18:15:32 rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 18:17:48 hey rajesh 18:18:45 Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@66.183.224.178] has joined #lisp 18:20:14 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-166-210.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:20:32 -!- rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:24:18 mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has joined #lisp 18:24:30 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109.92.183.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:24:43 nevermind, reading docs clears things up 18:25:16 manic12: herep 18:25:16 gigamonkey, memo from fusss: your blog is MIA 18:25:55 minion: memo for fusss: it's moved -> http://gigamonkeys.wordpress.com/ 18:25:56 Remembered. I'll tell fusss when he/she/it next speaks. 18:26:28 *gigamonkey* should probably set up a redirect 18:26:34 hadronzoo [~user@adsl-242-253-15.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:39 milanj [~milanj_@109.92.127.217] has joined #lisp 18:32:52 -!- plediii [~plediii@nat-168-7-232-38.rice.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:33:53 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:35:16 -!- cthuluh [moo@wxcvbn.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:35:47 plediii [~plediii@nat-168-7-232-38.rice.edu] has joined #lisp 18:37:19 -!- atzsts [~nullset@unaffiliated/atzsts] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:39:38 -!- Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@66.183.224.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:41:58 minion: memo for manic12: Mark sent me an outline for a CQ article today. Thanks! 18:41:58 Remembered. I'll tell manic12 when he/she/it next speaks. 18:42:11 -!- plediii [~plediii@nat-168-7-232-38.rice.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:44:46 plediii [~plediii@nat-168-7-232-38.rice.edu] has joined #lisp 18:49:18 krl [~krl@port-87-193-235-133.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:49:23 some question. If I do (require 'cl-who) I should be able to run the cl-who examples, right? 18:49:40 you might have to use-package too 18:51:15 -!- benny [~user@i577A80D3.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:52:03 that did the trick, thanks :D 18:59:16 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:01:04 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 19:01:09 hello 19:01:24 -!- jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: jhalogen] 19:02:45 -!- postamar [~postamar@x-132-204-33-247.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [Quit: postamar] 19:02:55 -!- plediii [~plediii@nat-168-7-232-38.rice.edu] has quit [Quit: plediii] 19:03:32 sellout [~greg@gar31-3-82-234-48-135.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:05:20 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:07:48 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:07:57 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:09:59 hi Xach 19:12:02 slava: excited about the talk tonight? :) 19:13:03 yep :) 19:14:17 hi 19:14:44 sykopomp: why wouldn't he be excited about seeing the quicklisp talk? c'mon! 19:14:55 -!- daniel__ is now known as daniel 19:15:04 Xach: no idea! -I'm- excited about the quicklisp talk! 19:15:16 but I can't make it on time tonight, unfortunately :( 19:15:31 valhallasw [~mona@rulhmpc56.molphys.leidenuniv.nl] has joined #lisp 19:15:32 *Xach* builds up unreasonable expectations 19:16:23 I'm trying to get started in lisp by building a logo-like drawing system. For this, I wanted to use the cl-2d library. I tried getting asdf and asdf-install to work, but in the end, all I get is http://pastebin.ca/1908740 - any hints? 19:16:39 sykopomp: you live in boston now? 19:16:49 mpls too mid-west for you? 19:17:42 potatishandlarn [potatishan@c-b21e6971-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 19:18:16 whoops, sorry, that is the wrong version, http://pastebin.ca/1908746 is correct 19:18:16 slava: I was mostly kidding. I'm still in the twin cities :) 19:18:50 slava: I was in Massachusetts up until about a year ago, though. I was going to the boston meetings occasionally. 19:19:41 ah 19:22:27 carlocci [~nes@93.37.211.5] has joined #lisp 19:24:27 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@clip-point-02.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:24:28 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-miasjhbdwexwssxw] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:24:36 stipet [~user@c83-253-30-85.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 19:24:47 -!- stipet [~user@c83-253-30-85.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Client Quit] 19:25:19 stipet [~user@c83-253-30-85.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 19:27:57 -!- Lis [~Lis@business-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 19:28:45 was there any word on what the lightning talks will be at BLM today/ 19:28:46 ? 19:28:57 francogrex [~user@109.130.59.209] has joined #lisp 19:28:57 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:29:46 -!- hadronzoo [~user@adsl-242-253-15.rmo.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:30:03 If someone is interested in the question I asked yesterday about SAS having a powerful macro system like CL here is a link to the answer I got today: http://www.listserv.uga.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind1007d&L=sas-l&F=&S=&P=15413 19:30:25 OliverUv: Sure, hold on. 19:30:46 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:57 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:31:48 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-184-206-128.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:31:56 OliverUv: http://dept-info.labri.fr/~strandh/calendar.lisp 19:33:09 Xach: you're showing QL tonight? 19:33:18 josemanuel [~josemanue@90.252.217.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 19:33:49 beach: Ah! Thanks. 19:34:19 beach: Do you have example code of any project where you use the hack to get around the lack of functional setf layout change? 19:36:37 entropax [~entropi@192.55.54.38] has joined #lisp 19:37:07 -!- symbole [~chatzilla@h-69-3-39-78.nycmny83.static.covad.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.6/20100625231939]] 19:38:35 symbole [~symbole@h-69-3-39-78.nycmny83.static.covad.net] has joined #lisp 19:39:18 OliverUv: Can't say I do unfortunately. 19:39:21 Sorry! 19:40:02 rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 19:40:28 *beach* goes to bed, and will see y'all in the morning. Good night! 19:41:00 sleep well 19:41:06 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-206-24.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:41:09 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 19:43:27 mobifuchs [~mobifuchs@bellman.boinkor.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:02 hadronzoo [~user@adsl-162-128-159.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:45:00 lulinha [~dummy@189.115.10.86] has joined #lisp 19:45:00 -!- lulinha [~dummy@189.115.10.86] has left #lisp 19:45:12 jpanest: a demo of part of it, yeah 19:46:06 stupid graphviz is dying on me :( 19:46:35 -!- mobifuchs [~mobifuchs@bellman.boinkor.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:49:49 Xach: oh, cool. i'm excited to see it. 19:50:08 Xach: I'll be the one trying to hire a CL developer. ;) 19:50:28 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-206-24.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:50:38 Xach: does this mean you've made progress since I emailed you? or just getting feedback on the state of it? 19:52:43 is there any way to get a stack trace when getting an *** - Program stack overflow. RESET? 19:52:57 jpanest: you're trying to hire CL developers? :P 19:53:52 sykopomp: not 100% cl, more like 60-80 depending on the person's inclination 19:53:57 at least, if I understand correctly, that's caused by out-of-control recursion 19:54:03 what are you doing? 19:54:35 trying to load libraries using asdf 19:54:47 valhallasw: not you, sorry! 19:54:50 :D 19:55:05 -!- hydo [~cmoore@c-24-16-168-68.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: hydo] 19:55:05 -!- rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:55:28 luke [~luke@cpc4-bagu10-2-0-cust705.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 19:55:54 -!- luke is now known as Guest9706 19:56:00 ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 19:56:05 -!- Guest9706 is now known as notluke 19:56:09 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:56:13 -!- notluke is now known as reallynotluke 19:56:19 hydo [~cmoore@c-24-16-168-68.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:56:28 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 19:57:02 mattrepl_ [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has joined #lisp 19:57:52 -!- mattrepl_ [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has quit [Client Quit] 19:59:20 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:00:41 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:02:04 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.know.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:03:28 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-129-171.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:19 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-129-171.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has left #lisp 20:04:27 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-129-171.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:32 -!- Rearden [~John@209-217-211-155.northland.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:13:16 pixel__ [~pixel@p4FC575BB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:23 -!- mhd [~mhd@cust-206-40-162-83.bos-static.gis.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:14:24 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.114.73.16.plusnet.thn-ag2.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 20:16:03 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl6-96-251.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 20:16:22 -!- TheEnd2012 [~TheEnd201@65.196.40.254] has quit [Quit: TheEnd2012] 20:19:38 valhallasw: what lisp implementation are you using? 20:19:58 slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:02 the procedure for getting a backtrace varies from implementation to implementation... 20:20:13 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:21:10 quack [~quack@213.13.202.244] has joined #lisp 20:21:41 rpg: clisp 20:21:50 er 20:21:53 gnu clisp 2.44.1 20:23:32 Beetny` [~Beetny@ppp118-208-64-33.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:37 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 20:24:03 -!- quack [~quack@213.13.202.244] has quit [Client Quit] 20:25:21 valhallasw: If you're at the debugger, type :help to get help. :bt gives a backtrace (of one sort). 20:25:33 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-90-145.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:26:26 quack [~quack@bl3-202-244.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 20:26:37 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@port-1163.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20:27:12 rtoym: I don't actually get a debugger prompt 20:27:33 Did anyone have problems compiling ECL with --with-thread like me? It eats up memory and swaps out. 20:27:42 at least, I assume you mean the 'Break 1 [4]>' prompt 20:28:25 valhallasw: You don't get the Break prompt? Then I suggest pressing Ctrl-C sometime before clisp crashes and looking at the stack trace. 20:28:37 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:28:44 -!- quack [~quack@bl3-202-244.dsl.telepac.pt] has left #lisp 20:29:27 :-) 20:29:35 of course! :-) 20:29:57 Hmm. I thought clisp was pretty good at handling stack overflow. Maybe not. 20:30:20 cddr [~user@5ac75e4f.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 20:30:21 hm, maybe there is some circular dependency 20:30:57 Anyone know of any code where cl talks to clojure through a socket? 20:32:23 jpanest: where do you need that CL developer? 20:32:28 wow. I might actually get this to work -_- 20:33:47 rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 20:35:30 -!- potatishandlarn [potatishan@c-b21e6971-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [] 20:36:09 -!- hydo [~cmoore@c-24-16-168-68.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: hydo] 20:37:08 hydo [~cmoore@c-24-16-168-68.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:54 -!- hadronzoo [~user@adsl-162-128-159.rmo.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:38:49 okay, the error I'm getting now is too meta for me :-( 20:40:54 "*** - FUNCALL: undefined function #:|binding-generator14196|" < I can only guess this is macro magic 20:42:43 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-206-24.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:44:33 valhallasw: try taking the whole backtrace and putting it in lisppaste. Can't swear I can help. I know ASDF pretty well, but don't know clisp at all. 20:47:53 rpg: http://paste.lisp.org/display/112842 20:47:59 syamajala [~syamajala@68-116-188-249.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:48:21 as far as my limited lisp knowledge goes, I think it's a bug in cl-num-utils 20:48:40 to revise my previous statement as i have been corrected by three people =), anyone on the planet earth interested in a CL-related job (C#+CL) in Boston, please msg. I will be at BLM tonight too. no more spam from me. 20:48:46 oh, cripes. not just clisp, but common-lisp-controller. A bonus bit of mystery. 20:48:56 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:49:18 -!- barcon332 [~barcon332@208.89.210.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:49:48 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:49:56 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:50:37 sorry, this loses me. probably someone needs to understand clisp more than I do to figure this out. 20:50:37 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 20:51:14 heh, okay :-) 20:51:18 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-75-53.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:51:21 seems like there are only 6 programmer-understandable stack frames here, and everything under it is clisp internals. 20:51:24 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-26-200.w83-196.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:51:31 have you tried the same in SBCL? 20:52:07 What do the things mean in the left margin? 20:52:50 suggestion: hop to the stack frame for compile-toplevel-form and try to figure out WHAT toplevel form clisp is trying to compile when it goes to lala-land. 20:52:57 -!- prima_lux [~user@95.158.0.252] has left #lisp 20:52:58 rtoym: I think stack overflow behaviour depends on some external lib (libsigsegv?) 20:53:20 xan_ [~xan@62.140.137.130] has joined #lisp 20:56:23 valhallasw: the scary thing about the common-lisp-controller is that you are getting some debian (?) packager's guess at what's a good library version and there's no reason to believe that lines up with what the source code you've downloaded wants. 20:56:26 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.88.212] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:56:28 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.59.209] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:56:42 This is a case where it would be REALLY nice if people would put :version specs and :version requirements in their .asd files... 20:56:54 lemoinem [~swoog@171-76-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 20:57:01 rpg: svn up is a much better way to guarantee good versions, eh? ;) 20:57:08 -!- rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:57:08 but no one does :-( 20:57:18 sykopomp: see above --- :version is the right way to do this. 20:57:29 asdf2 actually uses :version now? 20:57:40 sykopomp: ASDF1 used :version. 20:57:53 The fault here is not in our software, but in ourselves. 20:58:03 oh. I thought it was just there for whoever decided to actually read the .asd 20:58:10 same here 20:58:26 So it does have purpose, interesting 20:58:28 sykopomp: this is probably a good explanation for why asdf :version has never worked properly in practice. 20:58:31 Even then, I don't know what format they're supposed to have :( 20:58:39 sykopomp: x.y.z 20:58:46 for some integers x, y, and z. 20:58:48 does x.y work? 20:58:56 sykopomp: Yup. 20:59:00 so does x 20:59:05 oh good :) 20:59:10 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:59:13 I guess a good number of my systems already use this, then. 20:59:31 excessively modest open source versioning where x and y are always zero is unhelpful to ASDF. 20:59:42 redshank is nice enough to slap a :version in there. 20:59:47 sykopomp: the next step is to have .asd files add :version requirements. 21:00:30 rpg: hm, right. yeah, ubuntu. Anyway, in sbcl I get complaints about a missing package, GTK2-XLIB-CONTEXT 21:01:32 c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:02:15 valhallasw: so is this some kind of logo-implemented in lisp? 21:02:19 no 21:02:36 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 21:02:39 I have only been struggling to get packages working 21:02:51 the cl-2d package looked useful for drawing 21:03:16 valhallasw: so it's cl-2d that's failing to build? 21:03:33 one of its dependencies, apparently 21:03:51 valhallasw: which is? 21:03:55 although getting asdf and asdf-install to work at all took enough googling on its own 21:04:02 -!- stipet [~user@c83-253-30-85.bredband.comhem.se] has left #lisp 21:04:18 oh, hey 21:04:19 valhallasw: Double uh-oh --- you're using asdf-install AND common-lisp-controller? 21:04:29 D: 21:04:44 eeh 21:04:47 might be, yes 21:04:57 valhallasw: I don't know about CLISP, but for SBCL I always build by hand. I have never had any joy with any of the Debian distro things. 21:05:00 CLC is not scary these days, you really need to retire biases against it. 21:05:15 right 21:05:18 foom: I disagree. It has recently killed builds for two of my colleagues. 21:05:21 hadronzoo [~user@24.40.129.231] has joined #lisp 21:05:23 it "killed builds"? 21:06:07 it gave versions that were incompatible with our source install. E.g., it suddenly without warning inserted Fare's new ASDF 2, completely gorking our software which used ASDF-BINARY-LOCATIONS. 21:06:27 foom: Does anyone /test/ the stuff that goes into C-L-C? 21:06:44 rpg: it can't possibly have "suddenly inserted asdf2", you must've upgraded. 21:07:16 C-L-C is Debian Quality (aka 'that ssl thing was only a fluke, we promise') 21:07:31 foom: /I/ didn't upgrade --- I never use this stuff. One of my colleagues tried installing stuff on ubuntu, and it broke in horrible and cryptic ways. 21:07:47 because your stuff was incompatible with asdf2! 21:08:11 foom: right --- but the point is that someone pulled ASDF2 /before the ASDF maintainers declared it ready for prime time/. 21:08:32 foom: AND without telling the asdf-devel mailing list. 21:08:38 that's so completely not true 21:08:41 CLC pulled asdf2 because Fare worked with them to do so. 21:09:06 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@erft-4d07f330.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 21:09:09 foom: It went into C-L-C /before/ asdf2 was released. It was still in "implementors please test this" status when it went it. 21:09:13 s/it/in/ 21:09:28 it went into debian unstable 21:09:48 -!- pixel__ [~pixel@p4FC575BB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:10:03 Anyway, I don't think there's enough of a user and tester framework that anyone should use C-L-C. I'm happy to use debian-packaged C code, but IMO the CL community isn't big enough for this. 21:10:14 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:10:31 CLC is basically nothing now, all that it did was taken over by asdf2 21:10:35 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-206-24.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:10:40 it's pretty much simply a default configuration. 21:10:44 sigh 21:10:46 C-L-C also seems to modulate the behavior of systems in such a way that people here can't usefully answer questions about them. 21:10:47 I give up :-( 21:11:31 rpg: most incompatibilities were due to assumptions on paths, which was the same problem you'd have with asdf-binary-locations before, and with output translations now 21:11:37 next time, I'll start from source, I guess 21:11:57 I'm sorry to say this, but I find the only reliable way to work with CL code for my firm is to pull the source, blow it into a locally maintained source code repo (git or svn), and work from there. 21:12:09 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:12:18 nevertheless, thanks for your help :-) 21:12:52 rpg: I can't say I disagree, but that's not because of CLC. 21:13:01 foom: but the point is that no one is writing their code to fit the path assumptions on c-l-c, AFAICT, and there's no enforcement of version dependencies, so trusting to C-L-C to give you a library is just foolhardy. 21:13:02 Does Ubuntu not usually run roughshod with stability anyway 21:13:19 rpg: there is hope! Quicklisp is coming! 21:13:34 sykopomp: Yay! Let's further fragment the installation frameworks! 21:13:36 (and there's all sorts of others that already exist) 21:13:53 ASDF-INSTALL, clbuild, C-L-C, yadda, yadda, yadda. 21:13:57 or maybe it'll take over and be the only installation framework left. 21:14:02 rpg: well, eventually, we'll hit something that's actually useful! 21:14:04 Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 21:14:05 rpg, Which would you recommend, ADSF-install? 21:14:06 CLC isn't an installation framework. 21:14:08 We'll end up with a bunch of frameworks, each of which has a user base of 2. 21:14:43 I think it'll settle on one or two when we actually have something that covers the bases that need to be covered. 21:14:47 Guthur: Per above, I'm sorry to say the only thing I recommend is to take people's libraries in source form, and blow them into your own repository where they can be managed. 21:14:53 asdf-install is actually the only thing I could find when searching for how to use a package -_- 21:15:01 -!- e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:15:11 rpg: don't underestimate the mindshare Xach and his #lisp minions are able to build. quicklisp will be huge, if you ask me. 21:15:18 great, Fare is here, you can argue with him about whether or not debian used asdf2 without telling anyone. 21:15:26 e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 21:15:38 debian started using asdf 1.704 some time ago 21:15:39 asdf-install is actually reasonable in the sense that it makes the fewest assumptions. But for some reason everyone hates it now. 21:15:47 I'm trying to convince them to use 2.004 instead. 21:16:05 rpg: it's a pain to safely use unless you have other stuff already set up. 21:16:08 Right. I consider 1.704 clearly not ready for prime time. 21:16:14 this might be shocking, but not everyone has GPG set up! 21:16:45 well, 2.004 is ready, but the debian lisp team or lack thereof moves sometimes fast, sometimes slowly 21:16:46 *Guthur* blushes at the fact he ignored GPG 21:16:56 *sykopomp* ignored it too, out of sheer annoyance. 21:16:59 rpg: maybe you should tell Debian to not trust Fare next time he recommends using his software? 21:17:41 OK: here's my suggestion for fixing this, whicih doesn't have to do with software infrastructure at all. Please, if you are releasing a library, tag the asdf file with a :version attribute in the approved form, and add :version dependencies for all system-dependencies. 21:17:42 but anyways, it's not in a release, so anyone using it should know what they're doing. 21:17:44 Trusting Debian Unstable for stability is surely the problem 21:18:14 Right. I didn't trust debian unstable --- I just tried to help people who did! 21:18:18 ;-) 21:19:09 dlowe [~dlowe@c122-106-121-61.rivrw6.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:19:56 foom, Fare: I thought that we had said "please test 1.7xx" not "please release it onto unsuspecting users." Perhaps I'm wrong about that... 21:20:30 One problem is that ASDF2 is not fully backwards-compatible, and there's no easy way for people who update their ubuntu to know what needs modification in their lisp environment. 21:20:48 (this is just a general problem of updating linux systems, though, I think) 21:21:00 rpg: what incompatibility are you thinking of? 21:21:22 Fare: incompatible because of output locations. 21:21:35 Use of *load-truename* can turn weird. 21:22:31 Fare: Do we do anything to make loading of asdf-binary-locations blow up in a user-visible way when running ASDF2? 21:22:35 rpg, I might have been reckless in advocating 1.7xx -- but at the time it was that or another broken 1.xxx, and I thought that it would be just as easy to upgrade to an unbroken 2.0 when it'd be out. Apparently not because PvE disappeared as fast as he appeared. 21:22:37 I wonder if that might be helpful.... 21:23:02 rpg: no, we don't have an anti-ABL trap at this point. 21:23:12 If you devise one, we should probably include it. 21:23:17 Fare: That might be a useful thing to add, if a little ad hoc. 21:23:23 I'll see what I can come up with. 21:23:56 I haven't been using asdf-install, so I don't have a good sense of whether we added any issues there. 21:24:09 when detected, it would be useful to do something that deletes and re-loads ASDF, only way to fix ABL. 21:24:47 rpg, I think there was a one-liner fix to asdf-install when I change the signature of an internal function. 21:25:05 (on which a-install defines a method) 21:25:31 -!- e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:25:34 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.know.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:25:35 Fare: I was considering two things: (1) if someone tries to load asdf-binary-locations on top of ASDF2, we raise a specific condition; (2) if we can detect A-B-L already loaded when loading ASDF2 we raise a condition. 21:26:06 Then we can write a helpfully-worded note to explain to the user his/her hazard. 21:26:44 is there any practical use for common-lisp in the software job market? 21:27:13 -!- christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:27:14 e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 21:27:35 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@90.252.217.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 21:27:58 steven_t: yes 21:28:31 Fare: It only went into Debian Unstable though, correct? 21:28:49 Komi [Komi@83.231.81.175] has joined #lisp 21:28:55 -!- reallynotluke [~luke@cpc4-bagu10-2-0-cust705.1-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:30:00 fisxoj [~fisxoj@87.215.207.242] has joined #lisp 21:30:29 debian testing is 1.704-1, is that stable? 21:31:21 oh you said not, ah well 21:32:02 -!- TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-75-83-191-189.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:32:34 How does ASDF in C-L-C infiltrate the lisp implementations on debian? Does it crush whatever ASDF SBCL otherwise gives you? 21:32:48 rpg: I fear it does. 21:33:11 Guthur: it's not the worst version of ASDF, but it's not 2.004. 21:33:31 *many* bugs have been fixed since, and several implementations have been added support for since. 21:33:49 How do get the currently load ASDF version 21:33:55 do/do you 21:34:06 there's a creepy one-liner for that on the asdf website 21:34:14 I can check if it's installing over SBCLs 21:34:22 You can overwrite the asdf.lisp in /usr/share/common-lisp/ and then re-register your cl implementations. 21:34:31 (or #+asdf2 (asdf:asdf-version) #+asdf :old) 21:34:32 -!- cowhm [~cowhm@70.sub-97-154-133.myvzw.com] has left #lisp 21:34:54 oh, not that creepy I guess 21:35:34 hi Fare 21:35:50 if you know a debian developer, get them to bless the packages I uploaded to mentors.debian.net 21:35:53 I don't mean to be crabby, but is it really a good idea to override the ASDF version your implementors expect? 21:35:54 slava: hi 21:36:06 rpg: yes and no. 21:36:07 Fare: i'm at the couches on floor 3 of 34 21:36:18 OTOH, of course, how do you reliably install CL libraries for the use of multiple implementations without doing so? 21:36:36 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-166-210.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:36:38 remember than before then, the implementations came with a mish mash of old versions of ASDF that weren't even properly version-labeled. 21:36:47 Maybe someone should write a paper about C-L-C and present it at ILC 2011? 21:37:02 I am *not* taking over CLC maintainership. 21:37:06 or perhaps grab a shotgun and take it out back. 21:37:11 Fare: Right, but the implementers at least were pretty confident that they had something compatible.... 21:37:34 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #lisp 21:37:44 I doubt the C-L-C maintainers have the resources to test ASDF x Lisp Implementations x Libraries.... 21:37:54 (which isn't intended to be derogatory of the C-L-C maintainers) 21:38:25 Isn't C-L-C maybe equivalent to trying to deliver the same emacs-lisp for FSF emacs and X emacs? 21:38:27 Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:43 At least in the old days when I maintained linux boxen, no one tried to do that. 21:38:45 Fare: are you on your way soon? 21:38:59 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.know.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:39:00 -!- asarch [~asarch@187.132.140.196] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:39:15 slava: Unless I can delay him so that he misses the meeting ;-) 21:39:22 b4|hraban [~b4@a83-163-41-120.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 21:41:31 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:42:19 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483AEF1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:43:12 tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-67-248-22-159.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:43:59 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483DA32.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:47:03 slava, still looking for that VGA adapter 21:47:06 do you have one? 21:48:18 no 21:48:37 :-( 21:48:51 Can you run your demo on my linux laptop? 21:48:52 -!- hadronzoo [~user@24.40.129.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:48:57 yes 21:49:05 OK, so I'm coming right now. 21:51:05 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:51:42 -!- sellout [~greg@gar31-3-82-234-48-135.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 21:53:28 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:54:40 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@87.215.207.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:56:44 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-129-171.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 21:58:18 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 21:59:30 -!- qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has left #lisp 22:00:49 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:07:38 fisxoj [~fisxoj@87.215.207.242] has joined #lisp 22:11:00 sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.161.218] has joined #lisp 22:11:45 hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-129-171.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:11:57 Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@66.183.224.178] has joined #lisp 22:13:17 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.114.73.16.plusnet.thn-ag2.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:15:28 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@87.215.207.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:15:46 Xach, stassats: prelim report on run-program. I got a memory exhaustion again after about a couple of hours of usage with the :error *standard-output* key. Since then, I've disabled the run-program call and so far so good (or not good, depending on you how look at it). I will leave the image overnight see if there's any clogging. 22:16:05 s/with the :error/without the :error/ 22:17:22 If there is no memory exhaustion, it will raise my confidence quite a bit that it is indeed ocurring because of the sb-ext:run-program call. My next step will be to keep a long running process and pipe to it (instead of launching new images) and see how that fares on the long run 22:18:09 hadronzoo [~user@24.40.129.231] has joined #lisp 22:19:13 francogrex [~user@109.130.59.209] has joined #lisp 22:21:53 -!- curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:21:58 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-206-24.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:22:21 minion: logs 22:22:21 logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 22:23:38 Hi in SBCL, how can I replace readline with my version of readline here (defined in .sbclrc)? http://paste.lisp.org/display/112847 22:25:36 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@68-116-188-249.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:26:31 potatishandlarn [potatishan@c-b21e24a1-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 22:27:11 francogrex: :shadow? :) 22:27:31 -!- Soulman1 [~knute@44.84-49-150.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 22:27:32 fisxoj [~fisxoj@87.215.207.242] has joined #lisp 22:30:18 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:30:29 sykopomp: the problem is my win32-read-line depends on the original read-line :( what i want is replace read-line because as it is now, some of my programs are non-portable and also I cannot use other's programs unlesss I convert their read-lines to win32-read-line 22:31:28 -!- s0ber is now known as s0ber_ 22:31:49 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 22:31:50 I wonder if just copy-pasting the SBCL source code for read-line and adding your hack to that would work. 22:32:09 since you're already scrapping portability. 22:33:29 so it's the only way thru meddling with the src 22:33:40 amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 22:33:57 you're trying to modify the lisp implementation. 22:34:07 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 22:34:22 if it were just your user application, you could just shadow the symbol, or simply wrap read-line. 22:34:34 there might be other solutions, though. 22:34:59 i was hoping for a lispy re-implementation of readline 22:35:10 that will not depend on the original 22:36:03 that's why you pull SBCL's source code for it :) 22:36:04 who needs readline anyway 22:36:13 stassats: he's talking about CL:READ-LINE 22:36:51 sykopomp: ah, i hope it's all lisp and not a mix of assembly 22:36:58 stassats: read-line 22:37:01 francogrex: M-. read-line 22:37:14 re-implementation, what for? 22:37:45 he wants to remove #\Return whenever READ-LINE does its thing, when used on win32 22:37:47 it's not optimized for windows files 22:38:06 francogrex: and no, it's not assembly. It's actually a pretty short definition. 22:38:13 ok then 22:38:20 again, try M-. on read-line 22:38:31 minion: flexi-streams? 22:38:31 flexi-streams: FLEXI-STREAMS is a library which implements "virtual" bivalent streams that can be layered atop real binary/bivalent streams. http://www.cliki.net/flexi-streams 22:38:33 -!- Bronsa [~bronsa@host148-185-dynamic.0-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:39:05 stassats: is that the usual way of handling the #\Return thing on windows? 22:39:32 don't know about usual and windows 22:39:37 I think the other part of this is that he wants other libraries, which he didn't himself write, to be able to work on Windows (hence redefining read-line at such a low level) 22:39:58 sykopomp: that's gray streams for you 22:40:27 stassats: even when it's an isolated call to with-open-file somewhere deep in the library's source code? 22:41:27 rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 22:41:42 -!- rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit [Client Quit] 22:41:47 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 22:41:49 no 22:43:26 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:43:50 or yes 22:44:22 -!- hdurer_ [~hdurer@pdpc/supporter/active/hdurer] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:45:53 no, after all 22:46:23 I'm going into the source code 22:46:39 it's really not that scary. I promise. 22:46:54 It won't bite your face off or anything like that. 22:46:54 but you better just add external format support for \r\n on SBCL 22:47:05 CCL supports it 22:47:42 Does OSX just use #\Newline, by the way? Or does it have its own weird line terminator? 22:48:26 it's in impl.lisp 22:49:14 stassats: what do you mean where you that be added? 22:49:24 sykopomp: old Mac OSes had just #\Return as a separator 22:49:34 francogrex: into SBCL 22:51:25 it seems the more logical way yes; but wouldn't know where and how :( 22:51:50 you have the source, you can learn how 22:53:14 I mean I had build sbcl from source on windows (that's not difficult even for me) but thge trick to to see in those files where to add the external support 22:54:15 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 22:55:57 i'm looking into the sb-simple-streams 22:57:06 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl6-96-251.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 22:57:22 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 22:57:32 pjb` [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 22:57:59 -!- potatishandlarn [potatishan@c-b21e24a1-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [] 22:58:13 -!- pjb` [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:59:01 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@87.215.207.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:00:37 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-26-61-229.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 23:01:23 it seems a more daunting task 23:02:05 -!- e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:02:58 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-26-61-229.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:04:17 Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-240-213.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 23:07:11 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl6-96-251.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 23:07:39 -!- varjag [~eugene@84.118.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:08:33 -!- Komi [Komi@83.231.81.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:09:29 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.59.209] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:10:43 -!- xan_ [~xan@62.140.137.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:12:31 abgrilo [~chatzilla@187.106.54.58] has joined #lisp 23:17:00 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:17:02 hadronzo` [~user@24.40.129.231] has joined #lisp 23:17:42 curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:17:49 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl6-96-251.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 23:18:09 -!- hadronzoo [~user@24.40.129.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:20:38 -!- abgrilo [~chatzilla@187.106.54.58] has left #lisp 23:24:11 e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 23:24:18 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:19 psilord2 [~psilord@ppp-70-226-170-230.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:28 -!- hadronzo` [~user@24.40.129.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:35:32 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109.92.127.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:35:53 -!- levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:36:12 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:40:39 milanj [~milanj_@77.46.210.53] has joined #lisp 23:40:58 -!- hargettp [~anonymous@pool-71-174-129-171.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: hargettp] 23:43:55 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483AEF1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:46:15 -!- psilord2 [~psilord@ppp-70-226-170-230.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has left #lisp 23:47:05 aidalgol [~user@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 23:49:05 -!- Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@66.183.224.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:50:15 tetrahedron [~boxxy@c-24-218-107-249.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:50:24 dcc send startkeylogger 0 0 0 23:51:03 DCC SEND startkeylogger 0 0 0 23:51:03 -!- salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:51:04 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:51:27 sykopomp [~sykopomp@c-66-41-249-30.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:51:28 salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 23:51:38 -!- salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:52:23 salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 23:52:31 psilord1 [~psilord@ppp-70-226-170-230.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 23:53:00 -!- psilord1 [~psilord@ppp-70-226-170-230.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has left #lisp 23:53:08 -!- valhallasw [~mona@rulhmpc56.molphys.leidenuniv.nl] has left #lisp 23:53:09 bandu [~coyotama@pool-71-164-242-252.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:53:35 -!- eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:54:22 -!- tetrahedron [~boxxy@c-24-218-107-249.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Killed (idoru (Spam is off topic on freenode.))] 23:55:24 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:56:37 TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-75-83-191-189.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:58:25 jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:59:54 asarch [~asarch@187.132.133.21] has joined #lisp