00:00:47 peterhill: see above, I gave the filename above. or have slime find the location for you... 00:00:59 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-71-166-114-208.bltmmd.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:01:22 I found the file, but I did not see what I should change 00:01:33 I have the Clozure supplied asdf-install 00:03:43 my clozure-supplied version calls gpg-results/2 in that function.. which is defined in port.lisp. which calls "gpg --status..." 00:03:48 abugosh [~Adium@pool-71-166-114-208.bltmmd.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:04:11 -!- TeMPOraL [~user@188.147.174.179.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has quit [Quit: zZzZzZZzzZZzz...] 00:05:15 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.202] has joined #lisp 00:11:50 So where I should put an absolute path? 00:12:14 In gpg-results? 00:12:19 On the call to gpg? 00:12:55 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B224.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:13:24 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 00:13:55 -!- cmsfluff [~cmsimon@c-67-171-167-236.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: 'bye.] 00:14:42 p_l: I would gladly, but it seems quite ubiquitous. Do I have an better option other than using clbuild while waiting for quicklisp? 00:14:43 -!- Komi [Komi@62.32.131.75] has quit [] 00:15:41 And should I remove or recompile the .d64fsl files? 00:17:05 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 00:17:15 peterhil: I recommend going with clbuild for now 00:17:31 quite a lot of libraries don't have any proper release management 00:18:20 silenius: I got it solved now. Thank you! 00:18:58 p_l: Hmmm, clbuild did support .asd files? 00:19:56 peterhil: clbuild just manages keeping a copy of source repositories and links *.asd files to ASDF central registry 00:20:49 peterhil, If you mean grabbing dependencies listed in .asd then no, there is a dependency file in the clbuild directory 00:20:54 cmsfluff [~cmsimon@c-67-171-167-236.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:21:37 You can easily update it if required, but most major libraries are taken care of 00:22:36 Ok. Actually, I meant to ask how large collection of libraries does clbuild system have compared to asdf? 00:23:01 asdf doesn't have any collections 00:23:09 Avisch [~Avisch@70-101-99-64.dsl1-field.roc.ny.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 00:23:16 asdf is just a build system (think Makefile) 00:23:34 asdf-install, that is... 00:23:38 asdf-install, seems to be causing this confusion 00:24:30 But isn't .asd a kind of "package" description? 00:24:43 no 00:24:44 It's a "system" description. 00:25:02 (And not a particularly good one, either.) 00:26:31 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:26:44 -!- xan_ [~xan@xdsl-78-35-199-62.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:27:05 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 00:27:34 xan_ [~xan@xdsl-78-35-199-62.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:30:46 Yes, I know the TLA, but is not the purpose the same - describing the name, version, author, license, dependency and other information? 00:31:09 System just being a lisp term for essentially the same thing 00:31:13 nyef: are there good alternatives to asdf for cl source processing ? 00:31:23 -!- dfox [~dfox@r6l51.net.upc.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:32:08 i was thinking about a system description knowing about the various VCS, narrowing dependencies to commits or tags instead of arbitrary versions 00:32:27 peterhil: the purpose is to describe the order and the way of loading source code 00:32:46 and of course fetching and compiling sources when needed 00:33:17 but maybe it would mean too much overhead keeping dependencies in sync 00:35:24 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 00:36:22 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 00:37:06 in a mob-sourced / easy forked fashion 00:37:53 -!- lispm [~lispm@d221110.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:38:41 mob? where did you see a mob? 00:39:18 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:39:35 stassats: over at #perl 00:42:35 stassats: of course size matters, but i was more concerned about the nature of the structure 00:45:40 So, I'm looking at the ASDF cache on one of my systems, and... It differentiates on lisp implementation, version, and host type, but not on features such as threading. 00:52:20 ... wha? If I DEFMETHOD with implicit DEFGENERIC, I can get an undefined-function style-warning for later use of the generic function? 00:52:55 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.12.106] has joined #lisp 00:53:52 nyef: bad package ? 00:54:06 Nope. Same -file-. 00:55:14 nyef: defmethod description doesn't seem to have anything about what happens when it's at the top-level at compile-time 00:55:38 Oh, lovely. 00:55:46 on debian stable, building sbcl 1.0.40 fails with : Undefined alien: "waitpid" 00:55:48 Thanks. 00:56:03 am i missing something ? 00:56:12 on the other hand, clhs DEFUN only says the implementations _may_ record information 00:56:19 billitch: At a guess, you're missing waitpid(2)? 00:57:08 -!- xan_ [~xan@xdsl-78-35-199-62.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:59:08 so, i think with defmethod the same can be made, which is done in CCL 00:59:14 jan247 [~jan247@58.71.51.194] has joined #lisp 00:59:14 -!- jan247 [~jan247@58.71.51.194] has quit [Changing host] 00:59:14 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 00:59:34 billitch: Unable to reproduce (debain stable + a few newer packages, x86-64, sbcl 1.0.40 + an x86-64 floating-point compilation tweak) 00:59:35 nyef: sounds scary 00:59:50 i'm on 2.6.26-2-xen-686 01:00:06 Ah. 32-bit x86 debian stable? 01:00:11 yes 01:00:22 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 01:00:23 Don't know that I have one of those handy. 01:00:56 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:01:15 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 01:01:20 fwiw, it builds fine on a 32-bit x86 non-debian 01:01:21 rme_ [~rme@pool-70-106-137-40.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:01:24 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.160.229] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:02:23 billitch: are you able to build any other versions? 01:02:31 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:03:00 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-106-129-164.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:03:00 -!- rme_ is now known as rme 01:03:08 -!- rme [rme@clozure-CE906C7B.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout] 01:03:49 -!- urandom_ [~user@p548A7B33.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:04:43 lp 492783 01:04:43 https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/492783 01:05:09 billitch: do you have anything similar in your LDFLAGS? 01:06:17 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-71-166-114-208.bltmmd.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:06:40 i'm sure i did not set any LDFLAGS and i'm not on x86-64 01:06:45 TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-75-83-191-189.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:07:04 that doesn't mean LDFLAGS isn't set to something 01:07:32 yes, do you have any idea where ldflags are set in the build ? 01:07:35 kevin___ [~kevin@cpe-76-168-0-89.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:07:41 -!- kevin___ [~kevin@cpe-76-168-0-89.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 01:07:42 it's easier to check than to be sure 01:07:50 billitch: well, echo $LDFLAGS 01:08:15 oh that's empty, i was sure for a reason 01:08:26 no, you weren't! 01:08:43 ok.. =) 01:08:54 jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:09:24 i'm trying to build again but it takes a long time where i might be rambling on various pointless dreams of perfect parenthesic arcologies 01:10:50 -!- sergio_ [~serj@89.180.4.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:11:26 stassats: did you fix the quit-lisp thingie? (I haven't come around configuring my newsreader after its screwup two weeks ago) 01:11:37 tcr: yep, i did 01:12:24 sergio_ [~serj@89-181-0-62.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 01:13:43 Thanks! 01:13:48 Is SBCL in freeze? 01:14:26 no 01:14:35 jan247_ [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 01:14:38 Not AFAIK. 01:14:42 but they're talks about it 01:15:00 Actually, the proposal on the table is to skip the freeze and release this month. 01:16:54 kevin___ [~kevin@cpe-76-168-0-89.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:17:32 I'd like to update ASDF 01:17:38 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:17:39 -!- jan247_ is now known as jan247 01:17:40 -!- Avada [~Kedavra@unaffiliated/avada] has quit [Quit: Avada] 01:17:49 I built it with fare's patch and have been using it for 2 days 01:18:18 I feel like doing some slime hacking 01:18:43 barcon332 [~barcon332@208.89.210.254] has joined #lisp 01:19:25 meder___ [~meder@c-69-143-116-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:20:56 -!- kevin___ [~kevin@cpe-76-168-0-89.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 01:22:27 Is there some political affair I've been missing out not reading any lisp list? 01:26:41 Okay, time I left for the evening. 01:26:44 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-129-229.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 01:28:39 is asdf2 noticably .. "slower" .. for anyone else when using the .config/common-lisp/source schema? 01:29:18 -!- Joreji [~thomas@86-129.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:30:04 for the past several weeks i've noticed it and it seems atrociously slow at finding the package when loading and then it seems to stutter at along the way at points (i assume where it's searching for a file again) 01:30:06 -!- rme [rme@clozure-586E3A77.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout] 01:30:51 haven't tried with anything but sbcl lately 01:31:42 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-106-137-40.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:31:48 uh building again just worked.. strange 01:32:46 slyrus_ [~slyrus@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:34:24 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:34:37 -!- ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:36:33 stassats: slime-inspect-definition uses stuff which is now in slime-parse 01:37:11 and holy crap what a mess some parts of slime are :-) 01:37:32 derrida: not really 01:37:37 tcr: just don't look at them! 01:37:53 *tcr* shudders at slime-parse-form-until 01:37:58 rme [~rme@pool-70-106-133-41.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:38:06 And that one was written by me :-) 01:38:38 heroic comment: ";; For performance reasons, this function does not use recursion." 01:38:54 I remember how I cursed when I discovered that emacs byte-compiler does not do TCO 01:39:29 ouch 01:39:59 tcr: you could just add TCO to it instead 01:40:01 that's why emacs is so slow 01:40:20 maybe it would get 10% faster then ? 01:40:25 stassats: might have been better for sanity indeed :-) 01:40:30 billitch: no 01:41:29 I don't know how you can do TCO in lieu of dynamic scope without whole-program analysis 01:41:54 stassats: that's not an argument 01:41:57 tcr: i added slime-parse dependency 01:42:07 billitch: it wasn't supposed to be 01:43:10 -!- zard1989 [~user@Joe.m4.ntu.edu.tw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:43:49 I wonder if TCO leads to less expensive function call overhead 01:43:56 or rather could lead 01:45:11 stassats: yes it was 01:45:18 -!- barcon332 [~barcon332@208.89.210.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:45:35 does Emacs use a stack machine or register machine? 01:46:50 also, how much would TCO impact dynamic scope? I don't see much possibility since we are jumping back to the beginning of the function, right? 01:47:45 not necessarily back 01:48:00 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:50:50 could you show an example? 01:51:12 (defun foo (x) (bar x)) 01:51:28 ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:52:03 rme_ [~rme@pool-70-105-117-221.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:52:18 -!- rme [rme@clozure-F59CBEC6.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout] 01:52:19 -!- rme_ is now known as rme 01:53:28 and since X is dynamic and you need to remove that binding afterwards, tail call is no longer a tail call 01:54:13 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-106-133-41.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:54:14 -!- rme_ is now known as rme 01:54:52 rage at SBCL's incomplete traces 01:55:32 would TCO even be used in such case? I'd allocate a new frame just to have a trace (and have a transform for this kind of function to remove it altogether and inline (bax x) ;-) 01:55:34 Samy [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-49.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:56:04 -!- ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:56:35 p_l: in which case? it's a definition of a tail call 01:56:41 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 01:57:13 stassats: excuse me, it's just that I mostly encountered TCO being mentioned in case of recursive functions 01:57:46 -!- curi [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:57:56 -!- Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-120-72.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: REALITY IS TEARING ITSELF ASUNDER, BUT I MUST RACE] 01:58:02 Thor [~Vens@unaffiliated/thor] has joined #lisp 01:58:04 p_l: how are you going to optimize mutual recursive functions? 01:59:05 stassats: ah, you mean (defun foo (x) (bar x)) (defun bar (x) (foo x)) 01:59:45 I'll admit that for this I'd go with whole-program analysis or explicit annotations (been considering similar case some time ago) 01:59:48 Ralith: What do you mean by incomplete traces on sbcl? 02:00:04 p_l: that's a mutual recursive function, alright 02:00:08 rme_ [~rme@pool-70-105-123-161.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:00:36 but a proper TCO doesn't concern about recursiveness 02:00:45 -!- rme [rme@clozure-35EE823.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout] 02:00:46 -!- rme_ is now known as rme 02:01:11 well, chicken scheme's approach definitely has certain charm in it... 02:01:35 -!- Thor [~Vens@unaffiliated/thor] has quit [Client Quit] 02:01:38 rtoym: missing functions 02:01:54 inlined? 02:01:58 -!- Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-kthspxvwbozjhjgr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:02:02 not by me 02:02:03 Ralith: What does missing functions mean? 02:02:09 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-117-221.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:02:09 -!- rme_ is now known as rme 02:02:17 rtoym: it means one level is a function that calls (apply #'some-other-function stuff) 02:02:18 eaten by TCO? 02:02:21 and the next level is a foreign function 02:02:30 and some-other-function certainly isn't 02:02:34 chicken scheme puts Cheney on the MTA and makes *every* call a tail call - none of the generated C code ever returns 02:02:39 Ralith: (declare (optimize (debug 2))) ? 02:02:43 stassats: seems unlikely to me 02:02:45 billitch: already at 3 02:03:56 Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-yvjoiymrnhjkhjdy] has joined #lisp 02:04:10 rtoym: Where do you live nowadays? Back when I was in germany I've almost never seen you online but now I do so regularly! (Or is it just that you haven't been around in here that often for the past year?) 02:04:15 Ralith: well, bad luck 02:04:19 Ralith: oh yes this is annoying sometimes 02:04:51 Ralith: Do you have a small example? 02:05:23 tcr: Still live in North Carolina, USA. I wasn't on much a while ago. But have been on of late. 02:05:41 rtoym: no, but it happens all the time 02:06:09 Oh, ok. I rarely do foreign functions, so I wouldn't see such things. 02:06:21 there are foreign functions involved eventually 02:06:39 but there's one or two more lisp functions first 02:08:23 rtoym: these foreign functions must be from sbcl 02:08:49 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-193-24.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 02:09:51 because i never do them either but they're always along with (apply ..) 02:10:45 So you have a Lisp function that does (apply #'foo ....) and foo calls some other lisp functions that eventually calls some foreign function? 02:10:58 And what is being traced? 02:10:59 -!- manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:11:08 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:12:13 rme_ [~rme@pool-70-106-135-41.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:12:53 -!- rme [rme@clozure-235AE061.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout] 02:12:54 -!- rme_ is now known as rme 02:14:14 rtoym: foo calls a CFFI bound foreign function 02:14:25 foo is absent from the stack trace. 02:14:31 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-123-161.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:14:32 -!- rme_ is now known as rme 02:15:08 sbcl supports trace :encapsulate nil, right? 02:15:50 Oh, stack trace. 02:16:16 So the foreign function causes an error and you do a backtrace and foo is missing? 02:18:02 -!- meder___ [~meder@c-69-143-116-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:19:46 rtoym: yes 02:19:53 which is frustrating as foo contains many foreign function calls 02:20:02 so I have to use break or print or something to work out which one 02:20:04 Ralith: Did you check the bug tracker? I vaguely remember something like that 02:20:14 If not you should report with a test case 02:21:24 haven't gone beyond being annoyed at it yet 02:21:46 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 02:21:51 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 02:28:33 will try to put together a testcase at some point 02:30:12 abugosh [~Adium@pool-71-166-114-208.bltmmd.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:31:04 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-89-111.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:31:17 stassats: I'm puzzled by the docstring of slime-eval-with-transcript 02:31:33 stassats: slime-interactive-eval etc. do not actually grab any output 02:33:04 -!- rme [rme@clozure-73E9521B.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout] 02:33:29 i guess it means result, not output 02:34:49 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-106-135-41.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:37:57 codewad [~codewad@c-24-17-171-213.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:38:50 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.223.215] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 02:44:11 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-67-248-22-159.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:44:31 So interactive-eval, and C-x C-e does not include output, however slime-pprint-eval-last-expression does 02:46:50 And why is slime-eval-with-transcript called with-transcript? 02:47:50 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-89-111.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 02:48:03 -!- TheLolrus is now known as TheLolrus-away 02:49:34 uh that does not make sense at all 02:49:35 manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:49:48 C-x C-e does not include output, but C-u C-x C-e does 02:55:04 curi_ [~curi@c-67-180-28-250.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:55:15 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 02:55:18 -!- curi_ [~curi@c-67-180-28-250.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:55:25 timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-48-195.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 02:56:09 asarch [~asarch@189.188.148.93] has joined #lisp 02:56:13 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-71-166-114-208.bltmmd.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:57:39 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-112-32.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:02:02 -!- jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: jhalogen] 03:03:32 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:03:35 jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:05:15 -!- jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 03:06:07 abugosh [~Adium@pool-71-166-114-208.bltmmd.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:12:48 -!- kwertii [~kwertii@ResNet-33-228.resnet.ucsb.edu] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:20:45 -!- Guthur [~michael@host86-148-29-214.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:22:24 -!- TheLolrus-away is now known as TheLolrus 03:23:50 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 03:30:56 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.127.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:40:04 bigjust [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:40:57 is there a function like find-if that will return all elements that satisfy the predicate instead of just the first one? 03:41:01 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 03:41:18 remove-if-not 03:41:48 thanks 03:41:56 hohoho [~hohoho@p4ae269.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:46:11 -!- cmsfluff [~cmsimon@c-67-171-167-236.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: 'bye.] 03:50:44 cmsfluff [~cmsimon@c-67-171-167-236.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:52:49 ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:05:00 can I make ncurses programs with lisp? 04:07:55 probably can 04:08:44 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:09:59 -!- xinming [~hyy@115.221.12.3] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:12:38 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-115-196.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:15:28 minion: cl-ncurses? 04:15:29 cl-ncurses: An interface to the ncurses and pdcurses libraries for Common Lisp. http://www.cliki.net/cl-ncurses 04:19:56 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 04:20:09 TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@124-171-209-19.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 04:24:45 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-71-166-114-208.bltmmd.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:25:59 TraumaPwny [~TraumaPon@124-171-205-23.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 04:26:16 -!- TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@124-171-209-19.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Disconnected by services] 04:26:20 -!- TraumaPwny is now known as TraumaPony 04:27:38 -!- Avisch [~Avisch@70-101-99-64.dsl1-field.roc.ny.frontiernet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:31:50 TraumaPwny [~TraumaPon@124-171-193-166.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 04:33:04 -!- TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@124-171-205-23.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:33:53 -!- TraumaPwny is now known as TraumaPony 04:37:52 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-25-99.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 04:38:26 Avisch [~Avisch@70-101-99-64.dsl1-field.roc.ny.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 04:39:08 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-86-36.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:41:29 -!- TheLolrus is now known as TheLolrus-away 04:42:46 who's the ironclad maintainer? 04:43:13 does he hang out here? 04:44:01 abend [~alx@delta.muted.org] has joined #lisp 04:45:21 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 04:45:24 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:48:00 inklesspen: froydnj, yes 04:48:14 just not here now. okay, thanks! 04:49:04 ironclad's site contains contact information 04:49:11 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:50:03 cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has joined #lisp 04:53:48 HealingDruid [~InnerUniv@c-75-74-106-196.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:54:30 -!- loomer [~loomer@unaffiliated/loomer] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:58:47 loomer [~loomer@unaffiliated/loomer] has joined #lisp 04:58:51 i prefer irc 05:00:11 Good morning! 05:01:46 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:01:48 billitch1 [~billitch@2a01:e35:8b7c:5ce0:1e4b:d6ff:fe5b:afd3] has joined #lisp 05:04:10 -!- Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:05:37 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:06:06 -!- Eno_ [~quassel@fl-71-55-191-79.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:06:13 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 05:07:23 Eno_ [~quassel@fl-71-55-191-79.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 05:07:25 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 05:07:32 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:08:48 morning beach 05:08:51 evening for me actually 05:09:00 -!- derrida [~derrida@unaffiliated/deleuze] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:09:00 -!- fihi09 [~user@pool-71-190-64-139.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:09:17 abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 05:09:24 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:09:32 HealingDruid: I don't recognize your nick. Are you new here? 05:09:52 yes 05:10:03 What brings you to #lisp? 05:10:52 what brings anyone to #lisp 05:11:25 HealingDruid: Oh, various reasons. Some are newbies, some need help implementing Common Lisp, some are trolls, etc. 05:12:16 I'm all three. 05:12:58 super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 05:13:13 I have a lisp. 05:13:22 well im a lisp newbie enthusiast 05:13:30 HealingDruid: Excellent! 05:13:50 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:15:17 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:15:23 lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 05:15:57 ragnul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 05:16:06 derrida [~derrida@unaffiliated/deleuze] has joined #lisp 05:18:49 Samy: i have a limp! 05:19:09 -!- super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:21:56 So help me get some ideas of what might cause the factor 50 performance degradation I observe in 64-bit SBCL 1.0.37 compared to 32-bit 1.0.32. 05:22:48 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 05:23:54 First I thought it was typep, because it took 25% or more of the execution time. And it apparently seemed strange to SBCL maintainers that a compiled file should use sb-impl::%%typep. I then removed calls to typep, and now I am spending 25% of the time in position-if, that doesn't even show up on the 1.0.32 profile. So perhaps there is some transformation that the compiler is no longer doing? 05:24:40 Oh, I should do another experiment. Hold on... 05:26:41 super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 05:26:45 Nah, I tried to (declaim (optimize (speed 3) (debug 0))) before compiling, because I have them at 0 and 3 in my .sbclrc, but that didn't change anything. 05:27:00 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-woctrhrkbsqjuciz] has joined #lisp 05:38:18 i'm a lisp newbie as well. i've played with scheme the past couple months and am recently looking at common lisp 05:38:21 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:39:31 Spewns: I converted from Scheme to CL more than 10 years ago, and never looked back. 05:42:24 i think it will be hard for me to really know what's most profoundly different between the 2 until i start investing time in learning cl 05:42:59 Maybe so. 05:44:09 minion: tell Spewns about features of common lisp 05:44:10 Spewns: direct your attention towards features of common lisp: Features of Common Lisp, a one-page summary of what makes Common Lisp unique: http://abhishek.geek.nz/docs/features-of-common-lisp 05:44:24 spewns: The most profound difference is that CL doesn't support first class continuations and doesn't require tail call optimization. 05:45:55 thanks for the link 05:46:32 -!- bigjust [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:46:40 No problem. 05:46:52 Zhivago: those are a couple things i've seen mentioned. looping in cl would have a more imperative feel 05:48:28 spewns: Than DO in scheme? :) 05:48:45 With macros that's largely irrelevant anyhow. 05:50:30 well i'm used to doing everything recursively by now is all :] i haven't used do 05:50:47 Then you'll need to get used to not doing everything recursively in CL. 05:51:39 Modius [~Modius@cpe-24-28-30-165.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:52:04 won't be an issue at all 05:52:31 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-24-28-30-165.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 05:53:20 Modius [~Modius@cpe-24-28-30-165.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:53:38 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 05:56:04 TraumaPwny [~TraumaPon@124-171-193-166.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 05:58:48 -!- TraumaPony [~TraumaPon@124-171-193-166.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:00:15 ASau` [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 06:01:24 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:03:04 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:03:12 -!- Avisch [~Avisch@70-101-99-64.dsl1-field.roc.ny.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:03:59 -!- TheLolrus-away [~Xarver@cpe-75-83-191-189.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:05:00 -!- TraumaPwny is now known as TraumaPony 06:07:37 Davse_Bamse [~davse@82.103.143.161] has joined #lisp 06:07:39 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-115-196.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 06:09:35 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@p4ae269.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:09:36 -!- ASau` [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:09:55 -!- super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:10:12 ASau` [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 06:10:21 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 06:10:56 The way it seems for me is that Scheme seems cleaner, but makes you reinvent the wheel more than CL does. 06:11:07 hohoho [~hohoho@p4ae269.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 06:11:35 But I have only got a rudimentary experience with Scheme (most of SICP) 06:13:19 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:13:25 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:15:39 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.148.93] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:18:58 adu [~ajr@softbank220043138128.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 06:19:30 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:19:40 good morning 06:19:53 morn 06:22:36 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 06:25:33 mornin 06:25:39 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:25:50 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 06:26:20 Hello mvilleneuve, adu, Revolve 06:29:46 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 06:29:48 Ulfalizer [~foo@71dsl82-stug.soderhamn-net.com] has joined #lisp 06:32:21 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:33:27 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:36:44 I'm wondering if I GET-OUTPUT-STREAM-STRING implies a FINISH-OUTPUT or not 06:42:18 -!- ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 06:43:15 -!- ASau` [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:43:44 -!- lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-211-112.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:44:48 Has anyone here had a job as a lisp programmer? 06:44:55 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 06:46:31 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 06:46:41 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:48:11 Revolve: I just did some consulting work in Lisp. And I use Lisp in my own startup. 06:49:06 Resolve: yes, in game development 06:49:26 whats a typical monthly wage for you guys, doing lisp? 06:49:42 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:49:47 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 06:51:23 is there a cache of emacs lisp files ? 06:51:31 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 06:51:54 Revolve: 0, all the money from consulting goes to the startup. But the consulting fee is the same as a for other languages. 06:52:11 mind if I ask how much that is? 06:52:18 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:52:51 ..and if I ask what your startup does :P 06:53:03 i removed slime from debian, reloaded emacs and it still loads the unexistent file /usr/share/common-lisp/slime when i "M-x slime" ?? 06:53:49 Did you /purge/ the slime package? 06:53:55 and also the cl-swank package? 06:54:36 i thought i had but that might be it 06:54:40 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 06:54:46 tcr: thanks 06:55:02 Revolve: Depends on your country and what the customer wants to pay. I gave a rebate for some reasons, ended up with 65 euros/hour 06:55:24 awesome 06:55:31 sellout [~greg@gar31-3-82-234-48-135.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 06:55:37 what does your company do? :) 06:56:12 Revolve. And half goes away in taxes if it would be a wage (Sweden) 06:56:37 It is a kind of web startup 06:56:48 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@209-20-84-78.slicehost.net] has joined #lisp 06:56:49 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 06:57:21 hankhero1:in stealth or care to drop a url? 06:58:02 morning lispers 06:59:01 morning kiuma 06:59:50 I'd rather wait with urls for a month or two, sorry 07:01:03 nevermind, I know the game. good luck with it! :) 07:01:58 Thx, we will need it. 07:07:15 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 07:08:45 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:09:08 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-mroyxwgvlofaxwno] has joined #lisp 07:09:23 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:11:46 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:13:26 -!- Dodek [dodek@jest.pro] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:15:03 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:15:38 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.know.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:19:36 fiveop [~fiveop@erft-4d07f7de.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:20:19 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@aol-billing.strace.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:20:24 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 07:21:34 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-121-46.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 07:27:24 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:27:48 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:27:49 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043138128.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 07:29:18 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 07:30:07 Revolve: There won't be a "typical" monthly wage because they vary according to which country you are in. 07:30:21 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:30:37 [oops, hankhero1 already said that, sorry] 07:34:12 meder__ [~meder@c-69-143-116-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:37:38 blandest` [~user@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 07:40:29 Axius [~hi@92.84.21.242] has joined #lisp 07:40:55 You can measure typical monthly wages in terms of the local cost of living. 07:41:28 Which is how you sure measure wages anyhow. 07:41:32 er, should. 07:41:56 -!- meder__ [~meder@c-69-143-116-194.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:41:56 -!- koollman [~samson_t@ns301422.ovh.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:42:31 jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:43:03 koollman [~samson_t@ns301422.ovh.net] has joined #lisp 07:44:17 Avisch [~Avisch@70-101-99-64.dsl1-field.roc.ny.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 07:47:09 Joreji [~thomas@86-129.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 07:48:14 xan_ 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08:01:19 For those who have time and want to figure out why SBCL 1.0.37 is 100 times slower on this program than 1.0.32 on x86, here is a paste: http://paste.lisp.org/+2EZH 08:02:56 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:04:35 vtz [~user@router2-border.mreja.net] has joined #lisp 08:04:37 p 08:10:49 -!- Spewns [~jake@97-92-222-240.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:13:07 rdd` [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 08:13:34 -!- blitz_ [~blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:13:48 -!- seidos [~kevin@cpe-76-168-0-89.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:14:37 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:14:44 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@209-20-84-78.slicehost.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:15:07 cthuluh [moo@wxcvbn.org] has joined #lisp 08:15:19 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has 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[~daniel@p5082CC7B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:09:07 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@69.86.153.232] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 09:10:37 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@69.86.153.232] has joined #lisp 09:14:00 -!- Joreji [~thomas@86-129.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:14:01 bgs000 [cheshire@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-utihptsftlszmgek] has joined #lisp 09:17:08 -!- vtz [~user@router2-border.mreja.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:17:16 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:18:53 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.20] has joined #lisp 09:19:03 -!- jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: jhalogen] 09:19:56 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:22:10 beach: Xof added a make-instance optimization recently in 1.0.46.6... if it undoes your slowdown then you may be able to forget the issue. 09:23:21 hrm, i may gave overestimated the role of make-instance in that code... 09:23:24 -!- cmsfluff [~cmsimon@c-67-171-167-236.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: 'bye.] 09:23:45 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:26:51 attila_lendvai: Yeah, make-instance doesn't take much time at all. It all seems to be in position-if and typep. 09:29:17 dfox [~dfox@r6l51.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 09:32:29 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 09:35:05 lichtblau [~user@77-22-102-45-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:36:17 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.12.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:36:31 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.58.144] has joined #lisp 09:36:49 Quesiton: How do I do socket programming in sbcl? The manual mention sb-bsd-sockets as a package, but I cannot see it when I do a list-all-packages 09:37:42 revel0 [~revel0@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 09:38:50 Komi [Komi@83.231.61.211] has joined #lisp 09:39:53 cmsfluff [~cmsimon@c-67-171-167-236.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:40:34 Davse_Bamse: There is a chapter in the manual on Networking. 09:40:50 Davse_Bamse: 09:40:51 http://www.sbcl.org/manual/ 09:40:56 entrosca [~entrosca@ip98-167-231-101.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 09:41:25 beach: yes i found that.. 09:41:32 hi 09:41:38 hello Komi 09:41:42 hello Komi 09:42:00 beach: that was where I found the package name, but how do I load the module? 09:42:02 hi fe[nl]ix, beach 09:42:12 and is it included in a default build of 1.40? 09:42:23 1.0.40 even 09:43:16 Davse_Bamse: Perhaps (require 'sb-bsd-sockets)? 09:43:52 great thanks :-) 09:44:10 what is the difference between require and (use-package)? 09:45:01 i'm having some problems again. :/ The SBCL debug messages are really cryptic for me 09:45:16 0: (SYMBOL-VALUE FUNCTION) 09:45:16 1: (SB-FASL::FOP-FUNCALL) 09:45:16 2: (SB-FASL::LOAD-FASL-GROUP 09:45:16 # for "file /home/oliver/.cache/common-lisp/sbcl-1.0.40-linux-x86/home/oliver/Dropbox/jobb/calvis/almavis/unit-tests.fasl" 09:45:19 {B7E0DD9}>) 09:45:32 davse: Require is about modules. Packages are about namespaces. 09:45:46 it says the variable FUNCTION is unbound 09:45:48 Zhivago: ok thanks 09:45:51 daves: These terms are going to seem confusing as the usage differs in CL. 09:45:57 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:46:26 Davse_Bamse: this is pretty informative http://weitz.de/packages.html 09:47:06 OliverUv: You would have to lisppaste the code. 09:47:15 this pdf is also very informative http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:K0t6LI5kdAYJ:www.flownet.com/gat/packages.pdf+common+lisp+package&hl=zh-TW&gl=tw&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESjiC9SHkX3yJU2G6CeWQOnFbJWVP4qqRw91H3vtFejbaMV609-5nMhv-sd52sKvjCuRQM4N4ABVa0AIANCq4jzZhyfg8EUg34sKlFP3SX7_pol8OROjvDzfjFP6gbDSEKlB5nde&sig=AHIEtbTQwexMsuGFPulQNyJ2liX4QZU8AA 09:49:32 thanks OliverUv 09:51:03 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:51:47 Davse_Bamse: No probs, I was confused about the exact same topic about a week ago :) 09:52:31 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:52:40 here is the problematic file and interpreter output http://paste.lisp.org/+2EZL 09:52:51 jan247 [~jan247@58.71.51.194] has joined #lisp 09:52:51 -!- jan247 [~jan247@58.71.51.194] has quit [Changing host] 09:52:51 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 09:54:33 -!- Avisch [~Avisch@70-101-99-64.dsl1-field.roc.ny.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:57:17 OliverUv: Strange! There is not occurrence of FUNCION in your code. How about starting by removing the .fasl files and recompiling. 09:59:37 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 10:00:06 beach: it's the . #' 10:00:09 Dodek [dodek@jest.pro] has joined #lisp 10:04:33 bpalmer [~user@unaffiliated/bpalmer] has joined #lisp 10:04:48 -!- lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:04:56 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.58.144] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:10:03 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:10:44 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #lisp 10:12:33 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 10:15:30 bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has joined #lisp 10:18:39 beach: ah I will try 10:22:08 adu [~ajr@softbank220043138128.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 10:24:39 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 10:24:44 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 10:26:34 beach: no go :/ 10:26:48 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:29:22 -!- bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has quit [Quit: Asta la vista] 10:31:46 bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has joined #lisp 10:33:58 -!- entrosca [~entrosca@ip98-167-231-101.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:34:09 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:34:36 entrosca [~entrosca@ip98-167-231-101.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 10:35:11 cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has joined #lisp 10:35:42 Joreji [~thomas@86-129.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 10:37:40 lichtblau: I'm not allowed to have a symbol.function tuple? 10:39:48 Aw shit! I was doing (cons 's . #'f) 10:39:58 Ain't got no dots in cons, that's list notation1 10:40:26 yep, that was it - now it compiles :D 10:43:04 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@114.93.128.117] has joined #lisp 10:51:47 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:56:29 zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 10:57:45 yakov [~yakov@213.170.102.170] has joined #lisp 10:57:49 hello 10:58:07 Hello yakov 11:03:48 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:04:24 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 11:04:59 -!- gz` [gz@clozure-93943513.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout] 11:05:42 I see that lisplab uses read macros like #md. how can i find corresponding definition?! 11:05:42 grep -R 'chara' * | grep macr from the top level returns nothing 11:05:42 are there other funs besides set-macro-character and set-dispatch-macro-character to add read macro? 11:06:21 -!- gz` [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:06:31 you could try grep -Ri macro-character . 11:07:32 <_3b> if you have the code loaded and use slime, you can try get-macro-character (or -dispatch-) and M-. on the function it returns 11:09:22 yeah, I know that I can ask get-macro-character. the point was not to install the whole thing :-( 11:09:27 Davse_Bamse: re socket programming: i'd go with iolib... 11:09:44 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:10:34 -!- bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has quit [Quit: Asta la vista] 11:11:32 -!- billitch1 [~billitch@2a01:e35:8b7c:5ce0:1e4b:d6ff:fe5b:afd3] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:13:28 schoppenhauer [~senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 11:13:30 <_3b> looks like they are defined in src/matrix/level2-constructors.lisp 11:15:58 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 11:16:02 bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has joined #lisp 11:17:15 argh 11:17:22 thank you _3b 11:17:41 there is no read macros in my tarball 11:17:57 though they present in svn! 11:19:34 is the author of cl+ssl here ? 11:21:08 kiuma: at least lichtblau is here 11:21:40 -!- xinming [~hyy@122.238.72.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:22:04 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 11:22:27 I woulsd as to create a tarball of the current snapshot that works with iolib so that it can be included in gentoo overlay 11:22:39 (I "need" it for clonsigna) 11:22:46 xinming [~hyy@122.238.72.30] has joined #lisp 11:22:51 *would 11:24:38 -!- schoppenhauer [~senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:26:17 killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has joined #lisp 11:28:40 ask Xach for a quicklisp tarball URL... 11:35:55 schoppenhauer [~senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 11:37:19 -!- dfox [~dfox@r6l51.net.upc.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:39:48 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@p4ae269.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:40:38 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.165.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:44:57 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:46:31 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@erft-4d07f7de.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 11:51:54 salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 11:54:14 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:55:46 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-57-82-249-63-218.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:57:19 Xach, ? 12:00:33 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-152-8.vodafone.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:02:50 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:09:40 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-152-8.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 12:11:34 Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 12:12:35 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-woctrhrkbsqjuciz] has left #lisp 12:17:09 tobik [~tobik@p54897092.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:18:20 For what? 12:19:21 beach: My wife and I will likely be passing through Bordeaux in a week or so. A bit late for the lisp conference, but we're canvassing France for diving and climbing locations. 12:19:23 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-152-8.vodafone.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:23:05 -!- Samy [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-49.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:23:41 Samy [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-49.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:25:15 antifuchs [~foobar@baker.boinkor.net] has joined #lisp 12:25:21 so, hello 12:25:31 Quite. 12:25:56 did the sourceforge rsync thing change again? I see the sbcl git converter fail repeatedly now 12:26:48 (hm, their trac says it is the same as the one I use) 12:29:20 antifuchs: they're changing infra & UI 12:29:24 again :D 12:29:29 m/ 12:29:42 alright - I will try to suppress the error messages, then 12:29:58 until the cvs repo rsync works again, I'm afraid there will be no git mirroring 12:31:58 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-53-82-65-18-119.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:33:13 NNshag [user@lns-bzn-23-82-248-86-52.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:33:27 nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-129-229.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 12:33:40 G'morning all. 12:34:10 yakov1 [~yakov@213.170.102.170] has joined #lisp 12:34:35 is CLisp available on Debian GNU/Hurd precompiled? 12:34:57 -!- manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:34:59 -!- yakov [~yakov@213.170.102.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:35:14 hurd? are you being serious? 12:35:30 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043138128.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 12:35:40 mega1 [~quassel@pool-0362d.externet.hu] has joined #lisp 12:35:43 stassats`: He's GNU/serious. 12:35:57 is there even a c computer precompilled? 12:36:05 dont you have to cross compile or something? 12:36:31 Tanami: GCL is probably precompiled  12:36:48 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-53-82-65-18-119.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:36:49 Davse_Bamse: i build computers with my own hands and without any C! 12:37:22 mmk 12:37:32 also, I am serious 12:37:55 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:37:58 -!- RenJuan [~juan@72.228.177.92] has left #lisp 12:38:26 Tanami: my condolences 12:38:56 ~___~ 12:38:58  12:39:12 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:41:24 Xach, is there a new tarball of cl+ssl ? 12:42:13 kiuma: What does "tarball" mean to you? 12:42:20 tar.gz 12:42:33 kiuma: I can't help you if you won't help me. 12:42:48 I don't know what you're talking about. 12:43:17 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 12:43:50 francogrex [~user@109.130.41.24] has joined #lisp 12:44:14 ahh :) . for cl+ssl I'd like a new tar.gz version (maybe the current svn) to have it inside gentoo overlay 12:44:39 this because recently cl+ssl has been patched to work with iolib 12:44:56 and clonsigna uses bot iolib and cl+ssl 12:45:20 *both 12:46:26 kiuma: why don't you check out the project and make your own tar.gz? 12:46:47 and where I put it ? 12:47:11 kiuma: The internet. 12:47:23 I'd only like new cl+ssl to be part of gentoo overlay 12:47:30 I don't know what that means. 12:48:00 I've only a not always reliable slow connected server 12:48:25 Xach, like an rpm for Redhat 12:48:28 I can't help you right now, sorry. 12:48:36 ok, np 12:48:47 zard1989 [~user@Joe.m4.ntu.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 12:49:19 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-48-119.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:50:20 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-89-111.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:50:25 Rearden [~John@209-217-211-155.northland.net] has joined #lisp 12:50:46 isn't c-l.net enough? 12:51:28 kiuma: If you have any money, you could put it on amazon's highly reliable web server for 0.000001/month. 12:51:53 really ? 12:51:59 Really. 12:52:08 I didn't know , nice 12:52:34 Yuuhi [benni@p5483BAFC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:53:04 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@69.86.153.232] has quit [Quit: galaxywatcher] 12:53:47 You can even use a CL library, zs3, to put the file there 12:53:54 *sellout* wonders if Xach has been replaced by Eliza. 12:54:26 Elixa 12:56:23 prima_lux [~user@95.158.0.252] has joined #lisp 12:57:22 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 12:58:48 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 12:59:16 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest66366 13:02:22 gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 13:02:38 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-24-193-19.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 13:03:31 -!- marienz [~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz] has quit [Quit: restarting...] 13:04:11 kiuma: I host thousands of Lisp-generated pictures on amazon and my bill is usually under US$0.25 13:04:15 monthly bill 13:04:31 -!- Guest66366 [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 13:04:37 mmm... very interesting 13:04:54 I could place CLAW central there 13:05:27 do you mean "real" pictures ? 13:05:45 They are as real as anything. 13:06:00 ... So, "no"? 13:06:17 just go get the red pill 13:06:39 or take 13:07:40 Try the pink one next time. 13:07:59 How about the purple pill? It's red -and- blue! 13:08:18 Sounds like a homosexual conspiracy. 13:08:51 Once they've confused us about our primary colours, we will be ripe for conversion. 13:09:03 marienz [~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz] has joined #lisp 13:09:06 jdz: Found a bug in the GLX this morning. Double-float arguments weren't working properly on big-endian systems. 13:09:32 aii 13:09:46 Xach: how do you use S3 ? Do you mount it as a file system ? 13:10:03 nyef: did you also fix it? 13:10:47 kuwabara: I upload files with (zs3:put-file "foo.jpg" "bar.xach.com" "pics/foo.jpg" :public t :content-type "image/jpeg") 13:10:49 Yeah, I'll push it to my repository later today. 13:11:06 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:12:29 cool 13:12:35 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 13:13:01 nyef: where is your repo? 13:13:39 rrice [~rrice@adsl-99-164-35-250.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:14:32 -!- lusory [~bart@bb219-74-123-108.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:15:00 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:15:18 cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has joined #lisp 13:16:30 urandom__ [~user@p548A4E4A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:16:31 Xach: On clnet. 13:17:05 http://common-lisp.net/gitweb?p=users/abridgewater/clx.git;a=summary 13:17:47 ignas [~ignas@245.adsl2.freecom.net] has joined #lisp 13:17:50 I usually commit stuff to the glx-fixes branch. 13:18:25 -!- Davse_Bamse [~davse@82.103.143.161] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:18:31 -!- bgs000 [cheshire@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-utihptsftlszmgek] has quit [Changing host] 13:18:31 bgs000 [cheshire@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 13:18:31 -!- bgs000 [cheshire@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Changing host] 13:18:31 bgs000 [cheshire@gateway/shell/57o9.org/x-utihptsftlszmgek] has joined #lisp 13:18:33 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 13:19:47 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:20:09 lusory [~bart@bb119-74-153-71.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 13:20:54 nyef: do you have any fun programs that use GLX? 13:21:28 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:21:31 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:22:37 Fun for who? 13:23:00 My game-stuff uses the GLX, but otherwise it's not very popular. 13:23:12 (Probably due to being not very complete, and not very up-to-date.) 13:24:46 *Xach* had a terrible dream that he went to the BLM and nobody who pledged to show up showed up 13:25:46 adu [~ajr@softbank220043139062.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 13:27:10 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:28:44 I'm still going to be there, that much hasn't changed. 13:28:59 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-mroyxwgvlofaxwno] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:29:19 BLM? 13:29:30 OliverUv: Boston-lisp-meeting. 13:29:54 ah 13:30:06 -!- ignas [~ignas@245.adsl2.freecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:32:03 udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-iibnijftodfoaewt] has joined #lisp 13:32:19 ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 13:34:37 rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 13:37:01 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-115-196.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:37:14 Xach: urk. Sounds nearly as bad as those "naked in classroom" nightmares 13:38:20 *Xach* spent way too much time working on an outline for his slides 13:38:27 ignas [~ignas@245.adsl2.freecom.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:18 -!- Joreji [~thomas@86-129.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:44:45 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 13:44:56 Ugh. I've got to do slides, too, and hope that my computer won't screw up when attaching to the projector. 13:45:52 lispm [~lispm@g224127170.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:46:10 -!- lispm [~lispm@g224127170.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:46:10 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 13:47:40 Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:09 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-98-14-173-5.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:48:27 Xach: If you stream it, I'll watch  even though it'll be 1:00 AM. 13:48:36 gko [~user@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:52 *p_l* would love notes/slides/video from BLM 13:49:03 *Xach* ain't sharing - come to the meeting! 13:49:56 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:50:14 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:53:38 Xach: don't have several thousands dollars to do that 13:54:20 that would include last-minute flight to Boston and whatever money necessary for "persuading" for fast Visa 13:55:00 xan_ [~xan@5351F837.cable.casema.nl] has joined #lisp 13:55:28 Fare announced it on July 1! 13:56:59 Some visas to US take over 3 months! 13:57:23 we're not all that lucky to be born americans 13:58:04 we are all born americans. It's just the government won't acknowledge it 13:58:11 :) 13:58:56 -!- ignas [~ignas@245.adsl2.freecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:59:00 (but I won't acknowledge the government, so we're even) 13:59:13 Poland has been trying to get fast Visas (or more like non-visa traffic) for over a decade now, I think 13:59:42 what's the contour integral of america? 14:00:45 (it's 0, because the poles are in Europe - except maybe for a few inside the borders, but they're removable) 14:00:48 -!- xan_ [~xan@5351F837.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:01:07 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:01:23 -!- zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:02:07 Fare: well, expect that upon your arrival at the JFK airport to be escorted by tall bulky men in black! 14:04:23 zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 14:06:27 lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has joined #lisp 14:06:33 -!- Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:07:17 francogrex: assuming you don't get shot, dunno if the "constitution isn' 14:07:32 t working from border" 14:07:49 idiocy was removed. (sorry, writing from different keyboard, enter shaped differently) 14:11:26 hmm, anybody else encounter this problem before and have a nice solution? 14:12:16 I am using something like '((function 'argument) (function 'argument) ...), feeding it to eval 14:12:34 (mapc #'eval that-list) 14:13:06 Aferlak12 [~Aferlak12@64.120.233.114] has joined #lisp 14:13:06 I'm doing this in a unit test to build some structures that I later want to check 14:13:10 Mistake number one: You used EVAL. 14:13:42 mistake #2: FUNCTION is a special form and its arguments should not be of the form (QUOTE ARGUMENT) 14:13:55 OliverUv: Instead of using names of functions, use the functions themselves and use funcall or apply. 14:14:04 by function i meant a function 14:14:05 sorry 14:14:20 OliverUv: Then you don't need, and should not use eval. 14:14:23 Heck, use the names and funcall or apply, so long as the names aren't SETF-functions. 14:14:29 i am doing something like '(test1 (myfun 'arg1 'arg2) ...) 14:14:59 p_l: you're right 14:14:59 why the hate on eval? 14:15:36 but yeah I see I will be able to avoid the internal quotes by using apply instead 14:15:37 OliverUv: Not hate. Just not convenient when other solutions are available (which they usually are). 14:15:41 and that will solve my problem 14:15:48 so thanks! 14:16:16 asarch [~asarch@189.188.151.93] has joined #lisp 14:16:19 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.41.24] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:16:24 -!- ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:16:25 EVAL is one of those things that is superficially attractive, but is slow, hard to implement correctly, and can usually be replaced with simpler, faster constructs that express your intent better. 14:16:34 xan_ [~xan@5351F837.cable.casema.nl] has joined #lisp 14:21:19 -!- pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:23:36 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 14:23:56 -!- troels [~user@0x5552ef45.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:24:28 gz_ [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:31:19 the reason I used it here was that I wanted the code in the unit test to look like real life code, so that the unit tests would also serve a bit as docuentation 14:31:28 -!- lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:31:34 but I can achieve roughly the same thing now, so no matter 14:39:05 milanj [~milanj_@109.93.193.85] has joined #lisp 14:40:16 ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 14:41:21 -!- ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:43:21 killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has joined #lisp 14:44:18 ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 14:46:29 bobbysmith0071 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 14:49:28 and I now have working unit tests, hooray! 14:49:49 congratulations! 14:50:29 OliverUv: that's one common use of macros. 14:51:10 I can imagine! 14:51:55 -!- blandest` [~user@85.204.33.242] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:52:44 I could define a macro that puts the test data, test functions and validation functions in a macro, actually 14:53:23 the first two would be very straight-forward, but the validation functions are, in this case, some in one package and some in another 14:53:29 it is.. not as clean as I'd like it 14:53:52 but I don't feel like I can spend more time on it, especially not as I'll probably have to strip away the package things when I integrate anyway 14:54:06 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:55:41 -!- lusory [~bart@bb119-74-153-71.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:57:13 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:57:25 doh, flash in a browser affecting TIME, and i was reading diffs trying to find what i did wrong 14:58:51 pjb: what's the easiest way to get a working clisp on win32? 15:00:08 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00:39 lusory [~bart@bb121-6-247-192.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 15:02:58 billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:03:04 -!- bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has quit [Quit: Asta la vista] 15:03:11 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba@219.237.161.218] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:06:56 -!- ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:07:45 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:08:45 ignas [~ignas@245.adsl2.freecom.net] has joined #lisp 15:09:31 pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has joined #lisp 15:12:19 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 15:13:11 ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 15:15:53 Buganini [~buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 15:16:28 -!- ionine_ [~ionine@ool-18b8992c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:17:51 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 15:18:20 -!- abend [~alx@delta.muted.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:21:47 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:25:20 manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:25:25 Joreji [~thomas@86-129.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:28:06 jan247 [~jan247@180.191.50.56] has joined #lisp 15:28:06 -!- jan247 [~jan247@180.191.50.56] has quit [Changing host] 15:28:06 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 15:30:06 -!- sellout [~greg@gar31-3-82-234-48-135.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 15:31:33 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.132.184] has joined #lisp 15:34:58 fatblued1ck [~chris@99-188-214-127.lightspeed.grgvca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:35:18 yay.. got the cffi-related thing solved 15:35:40 -!- fatblued1ck [~chris@99-188-214-127.lightspeed.grgvca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:35:41 -!- fatblueduck [~chris@rrcs-67-52-188-98.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:35:51 had to disable fp-traps for sbcl 15:36:27 Phrogz [~phrogz@pdpc/supporter/professional/phrogz] has joined #lisp 15:38:14 3b aqui? 15:38:26 For the purposes of learning, I want to start with the simplest possible lisp and build my own system on top of it. Can someone please suggest a super-bare-bones lisp with the fewest possible predefined functions/macros in there? (I'll admit, as a newb my terminology may be incorrect here; hopefully the intent comes through.) 15:39:04 common lisps are big just by themselves 15:39:40 are you wanting a CL or just a lisp? 15:39:46 fatblueduck [~chris@rrcs-67-52-188-98.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:40:02 manic12: I suspect just a lisp. Common lisp seems very heavy for my purposes. 15:40:13 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.132.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:40:49 some schemes are pretty lightweight, I haven't paid attention to some of the other small lisps though 15:40:56 Phrogz: building your own super-bare-bones lisp wouldn't be too much effort ;) 15:41:55 ^ 15:42:00 Dazhbog: I know; I almost did it once. (Maybe 75% finished.) But if someone already has the metacircular evaluator already done, because I am too soft to grok it fully when implementing from scratch in another language, I'd sort of like to stand on those shoulders. :) 15:42:33 Phrogz: there's really not that much to grok... 15:42:51 I know. Woe is me. 15:43:00 -!- gz_ [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has left #lisp 15:43:04 that said, scheme is pretty minimal, but that also means it doesn't provide much. 15:43:22 isn't Arc supposed to be a minimal lisp as well? 15:43:24 so if you just want a toy system, a minimal scheme implementation would do the trick. 15:43:30 Arc is supposed to be a joke, last I checked. 15:43:33 ;) 15:43:40 Phrogz: you may be interested in "Lisp in Small Pieces" 15:43:44 That's Paul Graham's, right? 15:43:51 (Arc, that is.) 15:43:52 What's the name of that minimal Lisp in just 1000 lines of C or something like that? 15:43:58 Phrogz: yes 15:44:08 beach: Lisp500, you mean? 15:44:09 beach: tinyscheme? 15:44:11 beach: tinyscheme perhaps 15:44:19 Not that I'm trolling, but apparently "It's official: arc is cool." :D http://www.hiprank.com/arc.html 15:44:28 Lisp500 sounds more like what I had in mind I think. 15:44:36 But either of those might work here. 15:44:40 Thanks for all the suggestions, though. Very helpful. 15:45:09 http://www.hiprank.com/common-lisp.html This is amusing. 15:45:24 heh 15:46:38 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.132.184] has joined #lisp 15:46:44 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:46:52 -!- entrosca [~entrosca@ip98-167-231-101.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:47:59 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:48:20 greetings! 15:48:33 Hello fusss! 15:48:38 HELO 15:48:39 hey beach 15:48:44 manic12: EHLO 15:49:30 "HELO, my name is root. You SIGKILL my father. Prepare to vi!" 15:50:05 *manic12* chuckles 15:50:19 *nyef* stole that from a fortune file somewhere. 15:50:35 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:51:09 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:52:58 what would stallman do if mcdonalds called their locations with free wifi emacs? 15:53:22 manic12: I'll bite. What? 15:53:34 it's a question not a joke 15:53:45 a silly silly question 15:53:45 ... 15:53:47 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:54:23 a silly dumb question. 15:54:38 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:54:42 Probably the same thing he did with that clone apple hardware back when. 15:54:56 fusss: got a gif for me? 15:55:05 nyef: an eMac was proper Apple hardware 15:55:08 Xach: the ones that crashed it, yes 15:55:10 manic12: apple still has the trademark, and I bet it'd be enforceable ;) 15:55:11 shooting it now 15:55:17 (those large white imacs common in universities) 15:55:19 When is the next Boston Lisp meeting? 15:55:19 maybe he would walk in and say C-x C-c 15:55:20 rsynnott: Fair enough, then. 15:55:23 I saw someone mention it above. 15:55:24 oconnore: Monday. 15:55:41 pkhuong: trademarks generally have a domain of applicability 15:55:51 nyef: Where? 15:55:52 rsynnott: "computery stuff"? 15:55:53 I saw this: http://common-lisp.net/project/boston-lisp/ 15:55:57 so a trademark on a computer might not necessarily apply to an editor 15:55:59 but it says December 14th, 2009 15:56:19 oconnore: http://www.bostonlisp.org/ 15:56:33 6pm, MIT 34-401B. 15:56:36 emacs is older, i'm sure that counts for something legally 15:56:38 (The old usual location.) 15:56:45 manic12: it should, yep 15:57:05 nyef: Thanks 15:57:12 manic12: but not the hypothetical free wifi stations. 15:57:21 anybody see 3b in the past week? 15:57:41 super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 15:57:42 minion: logs 15:57:42 logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 15:59:41 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 15:59:46 fusss: do you have the problem with every gif, or just those two? 16:00:07 manic12: my logs show him talking in #lispgames on tuesday. 16:00:23 Xach: i can try another; but those gifs were made with Paint.NET 16:00:29 yeah he was here wednesday 16:00:33 thanks 16:00:56 fusss: I'm trying to narrow down the scope, if possible. 16:01:07 i suppose those times are gmt, for future reference? 16:01:26 PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 16:01:29 manic12: also seems like he was here this morning... 16:01:30 Xach: I know; i will get on it right after work 16:01:36 So, now that there is more activity here, is someone interested in finding out why this program is so slow on 1.0.37: http://paste.lisp.org/+2EZH 16:01:47 does anyone know if clisp clx-new works with Cygwin/X 16:01:55 abend [~alx@67.136.131.11] has joined #lisp 16:02:07 fusss: I can't reproduce on sbcl/linux, at least. 16:02:10 -!- xinming [~hyy@122.238.72.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:02:13 it's not that important 16:02:51 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:03:08 PuffTheMagic: any reason to suspect it wouldn't? 16:03:46 manic12: no, i've just never used cygwin and was thinking about using clisp/clx-new to start a new cross-platform app 16:03:47 xinming [~hyy@122.238.79.24] has joined #lisp 16:03:56 im sure it will work on mac/linux no prob 16:04:00 but i dont really use windows any more 16:04:04 so i have no clue 16:04:08 never used cygwin or never used cygwin/X ? 16:04:20 both 16:04:28 TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-75-83-191-189.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:04:33 cygwin is an little adventure 16:04:39 yeah i've avoided it 16:04:42 cygwin is an insanity 16:04:45 cygwin X works pretty good though 16:04:48 i've used mingw in the past 16:04:50 you could just use mingw's X. 16:04:54 when i've needed to make windows stuff 16:05:05 hmm 16:05:05 hmm 16:05:10 sorry 16:05:11 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:05:18 there's eXceed for X11 on windows 16:05:21 I use cygwin & cygwin/X 16:05:36 is eXceed free yet? 16:05:47 -!- Phrogz [~phrogz@pdpc/supporter/professional/phrogz] has quit [Quit: Bah.] 16:05:57 clisp build with mingw? 16:06:07 are there any real problems with using X11 on OSX if you don't care about using OSX's own widgets for native look-and-feel? 16:06:13 stability? Missing features? 16:06:19 there are both native and cygwin builds for clisp. 16:06:25 sykopomp: nah, MacOS's X11 is quite good 16:06:33 but obviously apps using it feel quite alien 16:06:37 manic12: dunno. Cygwin is rather hacky so I tend to install SUA instead  16:06:45 sykopomp: there might be some issues with the automagic X server startup. 16:06:48 SUA? 16:06:49 and I'm not sure if it's always installed by default 16:06:50 nice :re native builds 16:06:58 pkhuong: Just Works, in my experience 16:07:23 manic12: Services for Unix Applications 16:07:26 the cygwin installer can screw up your cygwin installation for upgrades 16:07:28 rsynnott: CLX has had trouble. Otherwise, it works here too. 16:07:41 p_l: is SUA free? 16:07:41 manic12: doesn't include X server, though 16:07:46 manic12: depends 16:07:53 arccsc [~arccsc@124.129.109.3] has joined #lisp 16:08:02 the sokoban demo with clx-new shows that it can do everything i need to do for this simple app 16:08:22 the downloadable part doesn't require anything, but the core parts are only included a) if you buy the license b) if you have certain versions of Windows 16:08:28 I actually get work done with cygwin/X though 16:09:10 -!- schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:09:22 what windows version? 16:09:48 a side note, the mingw32-w64 cross compiler works good on linux for making apps for windows 16:10:24 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:10:33 I have windows xp, vista, & 7 16:10:45 moah [~gnu@188.109.199.198] has joined #lisp 16:11:39 you can install cygwin X and a VM of linux, ssh into it and cross compile and run on windows instead of messing with mingw/cygwin native 16:11:42 PuffTheMagic: who are you targeting your app at 16:11:42 ? 16:11:49 Normal users will NOT like X11 stuff, at all 16:12:34 gtk offers a platform mostly-independent gui toolkit 16:13:28 rsynnott: is that also the case when all you want to do is pop up an opengl window? 16:13:36 Guest32997 [~james@99-157-106-84.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:38 (...or several) 16:14:06 -!- quodlibetor [~user@ool-18baa8f1.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:14:09 -!- benny [~user@i577A1B8D.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:14:17 sykopomp: that'd presumably be okay 16:14:26 there is gtkglext 16:14:32 beach: did you solve your slow typep issue of yesterday? 16:14:39 though I'd say you could find a cross-platform solution for that which doesn't require an X-server 16:14:44 (SDL, perhaps) 16:14:55 sdl doesn't do shared-contexts 16:15:21 Krystof: I did not. http://paste.lisp.org/+2EZH is a small-ish program that shows the slowness that I cannot detect on my 1.0.32 in x86. 16:15:32 curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:16:03 That program does not use typep anymore, but position-if shows up in the statistical profile, which it does not on my 1.0.32. 16:16:15 rsynnott: well, there's glop, but glop doesn't have native-carbon stuff yet. Just win32 and X11. 16:16:57 glop doesn't do shared-context afaik either 16:18:26 I need to buy a video card that supports glx 1.3+ 16:19:39 so I can move on with my code 16:20:19 glop deserves some love :\ 16:20:37 at some point I would like to be able to definitively respond to the argument with my own code 16:20:42 -!- TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-75-83-191-189.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:21:01 beach: would you be able to bisect that, either by hand or automatically? Or at least identify between which releases the behaviour changed? 16:22:12 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:22:13 Krystof: That would be a significant investment on my part that I definitely cannot do at this point (need to leave soon). But I'll think about it. 16:25:21 -!- yakov1 [~yakov@213.170.102.170] has left #lisp 16:25:23 hold on, is your comparison between 1.0.37 on amd64 and 1.0.32 on x86? 16:25:56 Krystof: The fast version is on 1.0.32 on x86 (32-bit) and the slow 1.0.37 is on amd64. 16:26:24 I know that leaves to many variables well, varying. But I can't do better than that right now. 16:26:46 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.165.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:50 Plus, I am fairly sure my previous amd64 installation didn't have that problem. I forget the SBCL version I had then, though. 16:27:05 well, 1.0.40 on x86 takes 0.03s to run (doit) 16:27:07 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.132.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:27:09 Make that "absolutely sure". 16:27:22 Krystof: That's good news. 16:27:51 could it be that some amd64 architectural change now uses some instruction that your amd64 has to emulate using microcode? 16:27:53 Krystof: It takes 10s here. 16:28:17 beach: this is linux x64, right? 16:28:23 yeah. 16:28:40 my amd64 (1.0.39.xx) also takes 0.03s 16:28:44 obvious one, but I assume that memory isn't a constraint? 16:28:48 Krystof: I am using the same amd64 as before. Just installed the latest SBCL available after changing to Ubuntu 10.04. 16:28:59 (the 64bit version will tend to use more memory, which could theoretically be pushing you into swap) 16:29:07 -!- hlavaty [~user@77-22-102-45-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:29:08 6,376,800 bytes consed 16:29:12 rsynnott: I have plenty of memory. 16:29:14 burton` [~user@calgary.userful.ca] has joined #lisp 16:29:56 beach: you say that position-if appears in the statistical profile output. Is it position-if itself, or the predicate function that it's calling? 16:30:08 position-if itself. 16:30:36 if it is position-if itself, could you sb-sprof the 10s job again, and then disassemble position-if? The disassembly should be annotated with per-instruction sample counts 16:30:36 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043139062.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 16:31:22 qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has joined #lisp 16:31:42 11 seconds here. 16:31:51 sbcl 1.0.37, x86_64 linux 16:32:28 4.5mb consed 16:32:53 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 16:33:08 excellent 16:33:29 Krystof: Sure, in the meantime, here is the profile http://paste.lisp.org/+2EZH/1 16:33:40 by "excellent" I mean "yay, you can all help debug this!" 16:33:48 -!- ignas [~ignas@245.adsl2.freecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:33:55 heh. I disassembled position-if. That's a lot of stuff -- and a lot of NOPs. 16:34:04 Uh, oh. Got to run. I'll come back to this later. Thanks for helping so far. 16:34:22 schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 16:35:16 sykopomp: would you mind helping to debug this? It sounds like your machine might suffer from the problem too, after all :-) 16:38:01 Krystof: I'm running it with sb-sprof as I type. :) 16:38:05 ....it's taking a while. 16:39:41 -!- tobik [~tobik@p54897092.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:39:47 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-25-99.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:39:47 -!- schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:39:50 beach: it could be also related to some cpu differences 16:41:06 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-83-242.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 16:41:45 meder [~meder@c-71-206-10-49.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:47 that's what I said! 16:44:12 heh. This is going to take a while.... 16:44:34 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 16:45:05 Krystof: do you want a disassembly of position-if? 16:45:56 Ideally I want you to look at it, see if there's some place with some vast fraction of the samples, look at the surrounding instructions, correlate that with architecture manuals, find the bit in sbcl's backend that emits the dodgy instruction, and fix it to use something different 16:47:12 abeaumont [~abeaumont@2.83-213-160.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es] has joined #lisp 16:48:40 http://paste.lisp.org/display/112733#2 This may have to do for now. :) 16:49:28 schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 16:49:36 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.122.48] has joined #lisp 16:49:54 I can do it with more samples if you want, too. 16:50:18 processor is an AMD X2 3800+ 16:50:45 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.122.48] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 16:52:01 afaict, the issue is that we have back to back dependent loads. 16:52:26 that accounts for ~60% of the samples. 16:53:22 yes, but why is this so expensive only on some amd64s? 16:53:34 and not at all on x86s? 16:54:05 some instruction which is slow on some x86_64s, perhaps? 16:55:07 -!- schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:55:09 did beach say it's also happening on the latest SBCL? 16:56:02 -!- rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:56:22 xinming_ [~hyy@122.238.73.224] has joined #lisp 16:56:25 -!- mega1 [~quassel@pool-0362d.externet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:58:57 -!- xinming [~hyy@122.238.79.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:58:58 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 16:59:53 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.142.79] has joined #lisp 17:01:11 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755d11.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:01:38 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:01:42 I have a function that returns three values. I have another one that need three values. Is there a way to plug them -- (need-three (returns-three)) -- without the need to (multiple-value-bind) the returned values and them pass them along? 17:01:51 multiple-value-call 17:02:19 Krystof: Nice. Thank you. 17:03:17 -!- ``Erik [Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 17:04:43 schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 17:04:56 rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 17:05:02 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:05:15 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 17:05:41 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:07:27 ``Erik [Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:03 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 17:08:21 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.122.48] has joined #lisp 17:08:26 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.165.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:14:13 Krystof: it took 3 seconds on my linode, btw, which is still much more than 0.03s :) 17:14:18 again, with SBCL 1.0.37 17:14:53 and that's running a Xeon @2.5ghz 17:15:04 (in a VM) 17:18:08 so whatever happend to the Movitz project? 17:18:19 -!- schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:18:27 burton`: not much. 17:18:35 i was reading through the devel list and it seems like everyone lost interest 17:19:06 that's too bad, but it seemed like a lot of people were thinking a bit too pie in the sky 17:19:18 and not enough about how to write a device driver... 17:19:31 a lot of people like the vague idea of a lisp os, have no specific idea of a lisp os 17:19:46 "man, think how badly i could be the averages THEN!" 17:19:54 hahaha 17:20:00 -!- xan_ [~xan@5351F837.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:20:00 And a lot of those ideas were pretty bad, on reflection. 17:20:04 Xach: nice summary. 17:20:06 -!- schoppenhauer [~senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:20:12 sorry. "beat" the averages. 17:20:14 how about writing unix in lisp 17:20:19 burton`: how about it? 17:20:20 that would be something to shoot for 17:20:28 I suspect that a large amount of lisp machine worship came from its inaccessibility. 17:20:59 *rsynnott* finds the idea of painstakingly recreating, say, bash in lisp very funny 17:21:18 i think it's an interesting idea 17:21:28 it seems to me that linux would make a great device driver for a lisp-os. 17:21:28 act on it, then 17:21:29 starting small...say v7 emulation 17:21:38 Fade: true enough 17:21:57 Krystof: I updated the paste with info from my linode. 17:21:58 not that v7 was all that small, but it had great docs 17:22:54 what was so nice about lisp OSs, anyway? 17:23:38 they were supposedly a hackers dream 17:23:49 lisp OS sounds too ambitious. perhaps it's better to build small tools here and there, until you can converge them. 17:23:56 no security, no protection, just a machine that does what you tell it to 17:24:03 -!- udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-iibnijftodfoaewt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:24:23 Yeah, that's one of the bad ideas. 17:24:31 of course lisp offers quite a bit more protection than c so it was safer in a sense 17:24:41 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:25:06 One of the problems plaguing lisp implementations to the present is that kind of idea, rather than the idea of "let's have lots of processes", that everyone else figured out a decade or two ago. 17:25:29 Which is going to make distributed lisp systems a radical break. 17:26:09 distributed _anything_ tends to be rather awkward, unless the thing was designed for it more or less from scratch 17:26:16 nitor [~nitor@cpe-66-25-205-147.sw.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:26:36 rsynnott: even when it's designed that way, it's still a major pain to get right 17:29:09 schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 17:32:08 -!- nitor [~nitor@cpe-66-25-205-147.sw.res.rr.com] has quit 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18:53:55 -!- astalla [~astalla@93-36-225-219.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 18:55:32 schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 18:55:33 -!- rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:56:17 -!- nitor [~nitor@cpe-66-25-205-147.sw.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:57:02 nitor [~nitor@cpe-66-25-205-147.sw.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:57:22 -!- Joreji [~thomas@86-129.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:00:27 -!- schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:00:45 What did I miss? 19:01:17 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 19:02:46 Spewns [~jake@97-92-222-240.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:04:02 Nothing happened since 1:30. 19:04:07 phew. 19:04:16 Talking about bad ideas -- how about elizash: How are feeling today? Reading some emails maybe? (Not to mention Bobsh... It seems like you are trying to do something advanced - would you like to play solitaire instead? ;-) 19:04:46 schmrkc [~marcus@c83-254-197-212.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 19:04:46 -!- schmrkc [~marcus@c83-254-197-212.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Changing host] 19:04:46 schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 19:04:52 peterhil: VIgor? 19:05:11 (stupid paperclip for vi.) 19:06:19 Heh, I didn't know there is one for vim too. It must be even harder to turn off than Bob. :-) 19:08:37 But seriously - why should Lisp OS be exactly like Unix? Wouldn't there be better opportunities for usability and expressiveness? 19:08:40 bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 19:10:42 fruitbag [~freshmeat@78.149.237.20] has joined #lisp 19:10:50 What is the most inescure programming language? 19:11:11 english 19:11:55 C++ seems pretty insecure about itself. It keeps trying to compensate... 19:12:14 I mean, it tries to come off as all macho and stuff, but we all know better, don't we? 19:12:33 -!- schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:13:22 Guest32997: Sure, but who still uses the Pick operating system, anyway? 19:13:34 Jabberwockey [~Jens@port-10253.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 19:13:36 You could say Eiffel is also pretty insecure, with all the contracts and all sorts of different things. It just won't trust you! 19:14:16 Just -try- to develop a security patch for something written in befunge. 19:14:18 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:14:27 Or in brainf*** 19:14:58 sykopomp: Have you tried Eiffel? worth checking out? 19:15:29 -!- Guest8 [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 19:15:49 Man, there's some pervert in some other channel who confessed to doing something strange while programming 19:16:02 I doesn't go for one of those crazy development visual development environments like Self and Small Talk (Squeak) 19:16:03 you could probably squeeze insecurity in the intercal philosophy... unless they already have 19:16:45 I really wanted to try those two out, but couldn't get round the awful (imho) environments 19:17:15 schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 19:17:15 -!- nitor [~nitor@cpe-66-25-205-147.sw.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:17:29 bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 19:17:52 Seriously, though -- this guy is so wierd 19:18:05 nitor [~nitor@cpe-66-25-205-147.sw.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:19:04 Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:19:24 Guthur: I'm going to overflow your buffer 19:19:25 Joreji [~thomas@86-129.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 19:20:42 Guys, has any game to date been developed entirely in Lisp? 19:20:51 fruitbag: Lots 19:20:58 What? 19:21:23 Well a certain Lisp dialect used to be the language of choice for Infocom games 19:21:35 Would Lisp be an adequate language for something like Idtech 4? 19:21:54 I'm not sure there's a Lisp dialect capable of that right now. 19:22:43 How so, Makoryu? 19:22:59 What programming language features are important for such projects? 19:23:31 Features that C++ clearly has 19:23:39 Um, severely competent optimizers, or the flexibility to optimize everything by hand 19:23:52 That's easily the biggest problem 19:25:13 Makoryu: most games have a lot of logic that's far from performance-sensitive. 19:25:39 pkhuong: He did expressly use the word "entirely" 19:25:54 umm hows the ignore work... 19:26:10 fruitbag: Per pkhuong's comment, you should know that some game engines use Lisp for scripting AI and in-game events 19:26:29 (Usually custom Lisp dialects, rather than Common Lisp or Scheme) 19:26:30 -!- fatblueduck [~chris@rrcs-67-52-188-98.west.biz.rr.com] has left #lisp 19:26:59 It's rare to see -any- game written entirely in one language these days. 19:27:08 -!- pregier [~pregier@somalia.ittc.ku.edu] has quit [Quit: pregier] 19:27:12 -!- hugod [~hugod@h237.six.net] has quit [Quit: hugod] 19:27:28 fruitbag: the Jak and Daxter series 19:27:46 fruitbag: and, although not exactly AAA-games, there's dto's stuff. 19:28:23 nyef: If ever. 19:28:31 -!- fruitbag [~freshmeat@78.149.237.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:28:35 fruitbag: there's also a group of us working on games of our own, and building up various tools to make game development eas(s|ier) 19:28:45 err 19:28:47 easy/easier. 19:28:59 *Xach* wants to help make game development easier 19:29:07 He left ¯\O_o/¯ 19:29:15 So hey, quick micro-poll 19:29:43 He was obviously working up for a trolling 19:29:43 Xach: quicklisp alone helps so much :) 19:29:53 How did you guys originally get started programming? And is there a free tutorial you'd recommend for someone to use today? 19:29:58 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@69.86.153.232] has quit [Quit: galaxywatcher] 19:30:04 dfox [~dfox@r6l51.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 19:30:35 ctp [~androirc@cpc2-hem18-0-0-cust473.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 19:30:44 How did I get started programming? Well, there was this Apple ][+ at school... 19:31:11 Commodore Vic20 19:31:32 Good, good 19:31:36 I think I still have my Vic-20. Don't know what shape it's in, though. 19:31:39 I'd like to recommend a FORTRAN tutorial 19:31:46 But I don't see any good ones 19:32:31 Makoryu: I took an intro to CS course while doing my film thesis. Then I just picked up Gentle Intro, and everything went downhill from there. 19:32:42 Gentle Intro? 19:32:50 minion: please tell Makoryu about gentle 19:32:50 Makoryu: please see gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 19:33:46 Hey cool 19:33:46 I haven't been doing this for very long :\ 19:33:46 sykopomp: That's good 19:33:46 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:33:46 Hmmm, I tried to generally use and load-foreign-library libao with cffi on PPC Mac, but it complained aboutdylibs being "mach-o, but wrong architecture". Then I tried to compile it manually, and it didn't work until I symlinked to glibtool instead of the OS X one. 19:33:46 well, I wish I'd been doing it for longer by now. :) 19:33:46 sykopomp: I'm hoping for stuff that's current and at least a little trendy 19:33:46 Hope it works now... 19:33:48 http://code.google.com/p/blackthorn-engine/wiki/Thopter#Screenshots 19:33:51 game written in lisp 19:33:53 hugod [~hugod@h237.six.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:22 Makoryu: I picked up gentle intro upon several people's recommendations. Then I went to PCL. 19:34:43 I think the rest is really just hacking away at whatever interests you. I figure skill comes from that. :) 19:36:03 is that name "slaughter" real? 19:36:11 p_l: sure. 19:36:12 p_l: pretty sure it is. 19:36:23 *Xach* knows more than one Slaughter 19:36:57 there's a guy on the LispWorks mailing list named John Doe. His .sig says "Yes, that IS my REAL name!" 19:37:40 -!- Joreji [~thomas@86-129.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:38:09 -!- nitor [~nitor@cpe-66-25-205-147.sw.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:38:10 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:38:33 ikki [~ikki@189.247.0.35] has joined #lisp 19:38:36 Joreji [~thomas@86-129.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 19:40:04 -!- schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:40:25 wow 19:41:25 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.142.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:41:25 'my other name is Jane" 19:41:54 Bleh, it didn't work. Does anybody know if libao even works on PPC macs? Because the libraries are in PPC executable format. 19:42:39 Makoryu: I have found the Practical Common Lisp to be a very good read. 19:43:02 (I'm still reading it.) 19:43:05 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:43:12 peterhil: You're on a PPC mac? What Lisp implementation are you using? 19:43:18 Clozure CL 19:43:23 Ah. 19:43:31 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 19:43:46 Any particular reason for using CCL instead of SBCL? 19:43:47 I have an Intel Mac too, but I haven't moved any programming stuff to it yet. Does SBCL work better? 19:43:48 -!- Joreji [~thomas@86-129.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:44:19 SBCL isn't necessarily better, but it certainly has a different performance curve. 19:44:38 No, just that the IDE seems nice to use. I also installed Aquamacs + SLIME + SBCL too, but haven't really got into using that combination yet. 19:44:56 Yes, I have read that in several places. 19:45:02 At the same time, CCL has threads, and SBCL only has threads on one particular PPC box, which is hiding under my desk. 19:45:39 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-48-119.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:45:42 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-48-119.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:46:18 Btw, I think I managed to break some keybindings with an .emacs configuration file. Now neither Clozure or SBCL does not have history and even arrow keys do not wotk on Terminal. 19:46:24 ...work... 19:46:56 Maybe I try if that libao works with SBCL. 19:47:21 peterhil: why not rename your .emacs file and see if you can fix the issue? 19:47:59 Guest32997: Just realized that too... I'll try that. 19:49:01 jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:49:16 troels [~user@0x5552ef45.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #lisp 19:49:44 peterhil: there's a package called prepl that has some simple line-editing supporting REPL 19:50:39 varjag [~eugene@84.118.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:51:05 rlwrap is useful, too. 19:51:43 Doesn't either lisp have any editing support without it? I think they used to interpret control characters like C-a, C-a and arrows etc. 19:52:13 peterhil: you might also try ccl's native ffi to sort out initial problems. 19:52:41 It wasn't because of the .emacs. Could asdf-install conf have broke them? 19:53:32 peterhil: there is next to no link between your .emacs and CCL's or SBCL's REPL in the terminal. 19:53:55 schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 19:54:41 rme: Ah, I see it's called ff-call - I have to try that. 19:55:12 pkhuong: Thought so too, but I couldn't figure out what else could have broke it. 19:55:30 nitor [~nitor@cpe-66-25-205-147.sw.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:55:32 do (open-shared-library "/path/to/libao.dylib") and then (external-call "something" :int) 19:56:08 lulinha [~dummy@nkvd.ath.cx] has joined #lisp 19:56:08 -!- lulinha [~dummy@nkvd.ath.cx] has left #lisp 19:56:12 -!- zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:56:30 ff-call is low-level; external-call is easier to use 19:56:39 *Xach* tries to reach dwim.hu, fails 19:57:35 rme: Thanks, but there is same problem. "No suitable image found [...] mach-o, but wrong architecture" 19:58:42 -!- nitor [~nitor@cpe-66-25-205-147.sw.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:58:59 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 19:59:27 -!- schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:59:41 lulinha [~dummy@nkvd.ath.cx] has joined #lisp 19:59:41 -!- lulinha [~dummy@nkvd.ath.cx] has left #lisp 19:59:42 Davse_Bamse [~davse@82.103.143.161] has joined #lisp 19:59:51 peterhil: what's "file libao.dylib" say? 20:01:00 -!- Davse_Bamse [~davse@82.103.143.161] has quit [Client Quit] 20:01:06 Davse_Bamse [~davse@82.103.143.161] has joined #lisp 20:02:18 lulinha [~dummy@nkvd.ath.cx] has joined #lisp 20:02:18 -!- lulinha [~dummy@nkvd.ath.cx] has left #lisp 20:03:10 -!- super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:04:48 schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 20:05:19 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-24-193-19.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:05:24 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-133-126.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 20:11:55 -!- rlpowell is now known as troll 20:12:25 -!- troll is now known as Guest27858 20:12:47 -!- schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:12:50 -!- Guest27858 is now known as rlpowell 20:12:57 file /opt/local/lib/libao.4.dylib 20:12:57 /opt/local/lib/libao.4.dylib: Mach-O dynamically linked shared library ppc 20:13:25 And the same for manually compiled one in /usr/local/lib 20:14:11 peterhil: have you checked if you aren't loading 32bit library into 64bit lisp or vice-versa/ 20:14:13 and (lisp-implementation-version) says what, please? 20:14:14 ? 20:14:37 p_l: Oh, good point! I'm using 64-bit version of ccl 20:15:06 "Version 1.5-r13651 (DarwinPPC64)" 20:16:00 nitor [~nitor@cpe-66-25-205-147.sw.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:16:12 Well, there you go. You can't load 32-bit libraries into a 64-bit lisp. 20:16:43 -!- hugod [~hugod@h237.six.net] has quit [Quit: hugod] 20:17:17 hugod [~hugod@h237.six.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:41 There's an item on the lisp OS todo list. Load 32 bit into 64 bit. And vice versa. Also: support arbitrary bit libraries. 20:18:15 -!- hugod [~hugod@h237.six.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:18:33 hahaha 20:18:37 p_l: Thank you very much! That was the issue! :-) 20:19:08 peterhil: I suspect that seeing the same error so many times is what warned me :) 20:19:19 tayloj [~tayloj@clip-point-02.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 20:20:05 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:20:11 -!- nitor [~nitor@cpe-66-25-205-147.sw.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:20:20 So, on to look for configure options of aolib to see if it can be compiled to be 64-bit. 20:20:33 schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 20:20:35 super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 20:20:45 cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has joined #lisp 20:21:41 something like CFLAGS="-arch ppc64" LDFLAGS="-arch ppc64" ./configure might do it. 20:21:48 -!- prip [~foo@host163-125-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:22:25 -!- HealingDruid [~InnerUniv@c-75-74-106-196.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:23:05 hi im beginin whith lisp, sbcl and tryin install lift with asdf-install i get this error http://paste.lisp.org/display/112755 , how can i solve it, thanks, im trying install hunchentoot and is a dependece, thanks 20:23:32 salva: hunchentoot doesn't need lift, actually. 20:23:45 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:23:45 minion: please tell salva about clbuild 20:23:46 salva: direct your attention towards clbuild: clbuild is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 20:23:48 salva: if you restart and try again, it might load hunchentoot without any trouble. 20:23:52 sugarshark [~ole@p4FDAA4AE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:24:29 -!- hadronzoo [~user@24.40.129.231] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:24:31 potatishandlarn [potatishan@c-b21e129d-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 20:24:38 thanks for all, ill try very fast help 20:24:41 >( 20:24:50 :) 20:24:59 Xach: as for "32bit in 64bit", it would probably lead to something like DCE... 20:25:38 p_l: well, lisp is a dynamic language with bignums. i see no reason not to support 35, 61, or even 100 bit libraries. 20:26:44 fruitbag [~freshmeat@78.149.237.20] has joined #lisp 20:26:51 -!- fruitbag [~freshmeat@78.149.237.20] has left #lisp 20:27:15 -!- ctp [~androirc@cpc2-hem18-0-0-cust473.lutn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:28:10 Ok, if anyone would like to try an updated demo of quicklisp, join me in #quicklisp. The weirder your CL, the better! 20:28:19 Xach: bignums used for addressing? :D 20:29:04 Xach: you sure about "the weirder, the better"? 20:29:37 Actually, hold that thought. I have to take off for a while. Maybe later tonight. 20:30:13 hahaha 20:31:01 zfx [1028@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 20:32:10 -!- Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Agh] 20:33:19 -!- Davse_Bamse [~davse@82.103.143.161] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:34:37 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 20:35:50 hadronzoo [~user@64.134.178.191] has joined #lisp 20:36:35 prip [~foo@host97-130-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 20:37:29 hi 20:37:32 beginner here 20:37:38 nitor [~nitor@cpe-66-25-205-147.sw.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:37:50 so you would recommend clbuild over asdf to install 3rd party libs/apps? 20:38:32 Given that ASDF proper isn't an installation system... yes. 20:38:46 Given that ASDF-Install is junk... yes. 20:38:53 oh, ok 20:39:10 At the same time, I'm not a fan of clbuild either. 20:39:41 so, it seems to me that asdf is primarily a system to define/load packages that happens to let you download/compile/install stuff, am i correct? 20:39:46 pp206: to avoid future misunderstanding, remember that ASDF is equivalent of Make & Makefiles, while ASDF-Install is a very old packaging scheme 20:39:54 pp206: yes 20:39:54 I am a fan of quicklisp! 20:40:14 -!- rrice [~rrice@adsl-99-164-35-250.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:40:24 pp206: currently the most available is clbuild, however quicklisp should soon be operational 20:40:33 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:40:47 *nyef* may actually try quicklisp soon. Threaded SBCL/ 20:40:59 Threaded SBCL/PPC has to count as a unique lisp install. 20:41:17 is quicklisp available? 20:41:24 fsvo available 20:41:25 ok, I'll check them both out 20:41:27 thx 20:42:00 quicklisp is still private beta, right? 20:42:06 it's up on github. 20:42:14 or maybe that's only parts of it. 20:42:18 -!- nitor [~nitor@cpe-66-25-205-147.sw.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:45:02 -!- salva [~salva@105.11.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Quit: salva] 20:47:32 -!- schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:48:00 oooh, haven't seen it yet 20:48:02 have to fork :P 20:49:41 drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 20:50:32 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:50:41 sykopomp, has quicklisp been released yet? 20:50:55 how is it different from clbuild, etc.? 20:51:19 Fare: besides not requiring you to install every VCS under the sun just to operate? 20:51:38 it's very DWIM, and hooks up with asdf. 20:51:42 schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 20:51:46 dunno. Is that the difference? 20:51:51 as opposed to being a command-line utility. 20:52:05 well, I consider that a pretty significant difference already. 20:52:36 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:52:38 xcvb can be used from both command line and repl. 20:52:48 It's easy to build bridges between the two. 20:52:49 xcvb is not a distribution mechanism. 20:52:54 no it's not 20:52:58 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:53:05 carlocci [~nes@93.37.208.209] has joined #lisp 20:53:21 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-230-193.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:53:21 what I mean is that while a nice feature, if it were all that were missing from clbuild, you could add it easily. 20:53:33 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:53:38 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 20:53:50 note that I'm not a clbuild die hard, I'm just trying to understand what's new 20:53:59 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-188-175.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:54:13 wbooze [~user@xdsl-87-79-188-175.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:54:15 -!- loomer [~loomer@unaffiliated/loomer] has left #lisp 20:54:36 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 20:54:39 what does quicklisp require (or not require) to bootstrap? 20:54:48 the vcs thing is a pretty big obstacle, and clbuild, even if it 'could', in theory, be magical and dwim, it is not now, and does not seem to be heading in that direction in the foreseeable future. 20:55:01 *p_l* wants to build a CLI wrapper around quicklisp 20:55:09 afaict, you just (load "quicklisp.lisp") and it takes care of itself... 20:55:30 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.165.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 20:55:47 *sykopomp* is not a qualified quicklisp expert. Is mostly just excited about the way it works. 20:55:53 sykopomp, and it works on everything under the sun? 20:56:13 does it require asdf and various packages to already be installed? 20:56:31 or does it somehow collate everything it needs into one .lisp file? 20:56:42 or duplicate the functionality? 20:56:44 I think it depends on asdf, yes. 20:56:56 or escape to the shell to use wget and such? 20:57:00 -!- schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:57:17 -!- prima_lux [~user@95.158.0.252] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:57:30 Fare: one lisp file + ASDF 20:57:47 it seems to support a pretty significant number of implementations. At the very least, all the ones I'd be interested in running. 20:58:05 otoh, personally I think that ASDF (or possible successor) should be standard in implementations, even commercial ones... 20:58:08 does it access the network to grab source archives? how does it do that? 20:58:30 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441121.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 20:58:31 p_l: many lisp vendors did not bother to reply to me. 20:58:50 Fare: maybe you should ask Xach about the rest of these details. Quicklisp is pretty self-contained, though, besides ASDF. 20:59:09 though LispWorks people did help me with making ASDF compatible with their platform. 20:59:17 nitor [~nitor@cpe-66-25-205-147.sw.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:59:29 is there a way to alias a package name inside of another package? 20:59:50 zfx: no. 20:59:55 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@2.83-213-160.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:00:02 wrap rename-package around the compilation of your software 21:00:17 I don't want to rename it globally 21:00:29 just within the scope of a package 21:00:36 I guess you can rename it back ;) 21:00:43 but that'll only help during initial compilation. 21:00:53 well, initial _reading_ 21:01:01 nod 21:01:05 oh well 21:01:12 but no, there's no aliases. 21:01:14 zfx: there's on ACL and CMUCL, I think, using conduits 21:01:24 on SBCL here :( 21:01:26 but it's still global, I think 21:01:36 no idea if the necessary parts are in for SBCL 21:01:43 abeaumont [~abeaumont@2.83-213-160.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es] has joined #lisp 21:02:05 there's some code that manages it for LW by hooking into reader and altering symbol search 21:02:13 -!- Ulfalizer [~foo@71dsl82-stug.soderhamn-net.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:02:27 think I might have stumbled across something: http://www.cliki.net/cl-package-aliases 21:02:32 zfx: save the previous name, rename-package, rename it back. 21:02:48 SBCL 0.8.5? 21:02:52 how old is that?... 21:02:55 zfx: maybe you can write a nice asdf extension to do that 21:03:14 -!- nitor [~nitor@cpe-66-25-205-147.sw.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:03:18 Fare: that only helps you during initial compilation. You'll have to nanny your package manually beyond that. 21:03:31 might see how this scary looking thing works 21:03:43 -!- jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: jhalogen] 21:03:57 http://tfeb.org/lisp/hax.html#CONDUITS <--- requires hierarchical packages, though 21:04:22 it adds :aliases to defpackage 21:04:35 -!- Eno_ [~quassel@fl-71-55-191-79.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:04:51 schmrkc [~marcus@c83-254-197-212.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 21:04:51 -!- schmrkc [~marcus@c83-254-197-212.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Changing host] 21:04:51 schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 21:05:02 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:05:03 sykopomp, you can do a global rewrite at runtime, too 21:05:09 like (:aliases (:alias :real-name)) 21:05:13 Eno_ [~quassel@fl-71-55-191-79.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 21:05:25 zfx: maybe what you want is Racket. 21:06:12 Fare: global rewrite at runtime would break code that depends on the old name 21:06:25 -!- Guest32997 [~james@99-157-106-84.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 21:06:56 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.151.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:07:01 everyone wants Racket, until they realize they don't. 21:07:18 p_l: looks roughly like what I'm after, assuming it still works :) 21:07:36 zfx: you will have to update the hierarchical package hack to work on SBCL 21:08:01 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:08:06 the LW implementation might be useful (it hooks into reader, while CMUCL code uses its support for the feature) 21:08:46 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:08:55 lispm [~joswig@g224127170.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:09:14 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-121-46.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:09:26 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:50 zfx: code that depends on the old name at runtime? 21:10:03 how much code does runtime reflection? 21:10:43 sykopomp, if you want a real module system, you don't want CL packages. 21:10:50 zfx: maybe you want lexicons? 21:10:56 -!- TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-75-83-191-189.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:11:28 -!- bobbysmith0071 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has left #lisp 21:11:32 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@2.83-213-160.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:11:34 cl-package-aliases seems to work, although it complains about locked packages 21:11:38 Fare: if I want a real language, I don't really want Racket. 21:11:45 :) 21:11:56 Fare: could you link me to some description of "real module system"? Cause I had seen it referenced a lot, but no single, succint description. 21:12:15 -!- Eno_ [~quassel@fl-71-55-191-79.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:12:32 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:13:26 Eno_ [~quassel@fl-71-55-191-79.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:30 sykopomp, for all its failings, how is Racket less of a "real language" than any other language (or CL in particular)? 21:14:27 p_l: one that allows any trick you can do with a linker. Importing / exporting / aliasing / renaming symbols. 21:15:39 Fare: for all its failings, how is ASDF+packages any less of a "real module system" than any other module system? 21:15:56 life is too short to argue about module systems 21:15:57 and since we're into lisp -- at the meta/macro/syntax level, enough reflection to automate/filter/blah any of the above. 21:16:06 zfx: then why do you? 21:16:21 -!- Eno_ [~quassel@fl-71-55-191-79.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:16:22 I am? 21:16:54 life is too short to continue a discussion with a troll, too 21:16:56 bye 21:17:44 Eno_ [~quassel@fl-71-55-191-79.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 21:18:07 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-48-119.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:18:12 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-42-228.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:19:54 -!- hankhero [~Adium@c213-89-201-154.bredband.comhem.se] has left #lisp 21:20:21 -!- moah [~gnu@188.109.199.198] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:20:21 -!- cmsfluff [~cmsimon@c-67-171-167-236.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: 'bye.] 21:20:51 cmsfluff [~cmsimon@c-67-171-167-236.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:07 nitor [~nitor@cpe-66-25-205-147.sw.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:22:39 so, people running lisp web apps 21:22:43 where do you host? 21:22:52 varjag: VPSes 21:22:57 or dedicated servers 21:23:06 i see 21:23:22 varjag: tech.coop is pretty lisp-friendly :) 21:23:57 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:24:12 -!- nitor [~nitor@cpe-66-25-205-147.sw.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:24:50 -!- Eno_ [~quassel@fl-71-55-191-79.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:24:52 Linode works fine as well 21:24:59 If you get any decent VPS you should have no problem, you may be better going self managed though, as opposed to some of these managed option 21:25:02 options* 21:25:27 That's an assumption though, I've only ever used a self-managed VPS 21:25:28 istr SBCL having issues with some VPSs. 21:25:30 slicehost? 21:25:45 mine runs Xen, and it seems ok 21:25:54 specifically, with the VM. 21:25:56 YMMV though 21:26:16 -!- lispm [~joswig@g224127170.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:26:40 I haven't run any major app on it though, just a few toys 21:26:47 sykopomp: there were some issues in the past, afaik 21:26:49 astalla [~astalla@93-36-225-123.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 21:26:53 current Xen seems stable 21:26:53 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:26:58 Eno_ [~quassel@fl-71-55-191-79.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:03 in any case, if you're serious about lisp hosting, tech.coop is the most likely to help you out. Personally, I use Linode, but I don't really host any lisp apps there. 21:27:07 past problems might be related to TLS on x86 21:28:46 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:28:55 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-242-61.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 21:32:06 thanks for the pointers people 21:32:17 -!- schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:33:31 sykopomp: tech.coop, do they let you run sbcl as app server? 21:34:18 ok, i see they have a separate option for sbcl in fact 21:34:19 varjag: tech.coop themselves run sbcl as app servers. They also run clnet, cliki, et cetera. 21:34:21 varjag: they're a lisp-friendly company. They might also help you with setting it up. 21:34:33 ok, cool! 21:34:46 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 21:34:47 and you can get the warm fuzzies from supporting a coop, to boot. 21:34:59 schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 21:36:46 grouzen [~grouzen@aol-billing.strace.net] has joined #lisp 21:39:12 -!- Samy [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-49.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:40:37 -!- cmsfluff [~cmsimon@c-67-171-167-236.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: 'bye.] 21:41:07 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.0.35] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:41:10 -!- qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has left #lisp 21:42:16 nitor [~nitor@cpe-66-25-205-147.sw.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:43:59 -!- hadronzoo [~user@64.134.178.191] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:44:57 -!- schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:45:14 -!- nitor [~nitor@cpe-66-25-205-147.sw.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:48:47 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:49:50 ikki [~ikki@189.247.80.84] has joined #lisp 21:55:20 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.80.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:58:07 schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 21:58:44 ikki [~ikki@189.247.80.84] has joined #lisp 22:01:07 cl-openid, how up to date is it? 22:01:35 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:02:11 -!- prip [~foo@host97-130-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:02:22 nitor [~nitor@cpe-66-25-205-147.sw.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:03:07 cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 22:03:11 prip [~foo@host97-130-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 22:04:10 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:04:23 -!- schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:04:46 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:05:03 schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 22:05:26 -!- nitor [~nitor@cpe-66-25-205-147.sw.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:05:26 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:06:16 p_l: Probably not, because I used the same software on the same CPU before installing a new version of Ubuntu, after which I also installed a new version of SBCL, and that's when I noticed the performance degradation. 22:06:58 sykopomp: The "latest" for which binaries were available on sourceforge at the time I installed it, i.e. 1.0.37. 22:08:07 p_l: Besides, that would be the first time I saw a factor 100 difference between different CPUs. 22:08:34 beach: then we're both seeing this on the same SBCL version, it seems... 22:09:28 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.80.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:10:40 benny` [~user@i577A17A8.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 22:10:40 Is it bisection time yet? 22:10:44 sykopomp: Yeah. 22:11:22 -!- benny` is now known as benny 22:11:29 nyef: I don't have an SBCL compilation environment set up, but I can do this over the weekend and see if newer SBCL versions still have this. 22:11:56 *beach* goes to bed. 22:11:58 Good night! 22:12:02 *sykopomp* goes to play D&D. 22:12:12 Happy hacking! I'm going to do some of my own. :) 22:12:22 beach: Sleep well. 22:12:35 -!- schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:12:39 TheLolrus [~Xarver@cpe-75-83-191-189.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:13:23 maden [~maden@modemcable068.120-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 22:14:28 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:15:05 cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has joined #lisp 22:17:01 schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 22:18:56 beach: I had seen such factor in differences between cpus, though 22:19:13 it doesn't apply here 22:19:15 night 22:20:06 http://paste.lisp.org/display/111244 22:20:12 is this a common problem? 22:20:19 cause i just ran into it again 22:20:41 varjag: Lift has a bug. It is fixed in git. 22:20:52 i see 22:20:55 thanks! 22:21:40 http://github.com/gwkkwg 22:23:33 nitor [~nitor@cpe-66-25-205-147.sw.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:23:50 Fare: quicklisp is not released, but I have been showing it to people. 22:24:19 Fare: it is bootstrapped by loading a single file that has a http client that works in every implementation on every platform. 22:24:27 how do i install the git snapshot so that asdf-install is aware about it? 22:24:34 badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 22:24:51 -!- timor1 [~timor@port-92-195-48-195.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:24:53 varjag: if you unpack it locally and make its .asd file visible to asdf, asdf-install will not try to fetch it. 22:25:06 cool, thanks 22:25:11 varjag: but nothing important needs lift, anyway. if you run into lift trouble, just stop and try again. 22:25:22 hunchentoot needs it 22:25:28 no, it doens't. 22:25:31 doesn't, rather. 22:25:46 well that's how i got there :) 22:25:47 asdf-install mistakenly tries to load it, but if you stop and try again, it will get un-stupid. 22:25:54 ok.. 22:25:57 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 22:25:57 let's see 22:26:16 -!- nitor [~nitor@cpe-66-25-205-147.sw.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:26:44 Xach, so you implement your own wrapper on top of each implementation's networking stack, then fetch all the lisp files you need to proceed ? 22:27:15 Fare: Yes. From there I fetch something that can untar, ungzip, and verify gpg signatures, all in portable CL. 22:27:34 how do you verify gpg signatures in CL? 22:27:34 And a database of system and project relationships. 22:27:42 calling gnupg or using ironclad? 22:27:48 Fare: how do you think? You implement the openpgp rfc. 22:28:17 I might use ironclad for the digest, if I can extract it easily. It uses a lot of generic ironclad infrastrucutre that I don't need. 22:28:23 "infrastructure" 22:28:33 implement your own crypto, or reuse a library? 22:28:58 I don't want to write it myself, since there are multiple implementations I'm aware of. 22:29:28 ikki [~ikki@189.247.80.84] has joined #lisp 22:31:52 Fare: I wrote about the networking idea a few years ago at http://xach.livejournal.com/192603.html 22:31:55 seidos [~kevin@cpe-76-168-0-89.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:32:02 Fare: I made changes to the idea for quicklisp, but that's the genesis of it for me. 22:33:32 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:35:59 Fare: So, how does ASDF2 deal with two instances of the same version of SBCL on the same machine, used by the same user, but one of which is #+sb-thread and the other is #-sb-thread, thus causing the fasls to be incompatible? 22:36:50 Xach, it indeed builds without 22:36:58 so much for tdd :) 22:37:28 -!- dfox [~dfox@r6l51.net.upc.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:37:45 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.80.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:37:54 nyef: if they have same version, you may have to manually configure at least one of them so it won't store its fasls at the same place. 22:39:11 Ah. That makes a certain amount of sense, I guess... 22:39:48 -!- schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:40:46 typically, I'd change the version of one of them to have a suffix or some kind. 22:44:03 nitor [~nitor@cpe-66-25-205-147.sw.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:45:45 ikki [~ikki@189.247.80.84] has joined #lisp 22:46:00 schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 22:46:13 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:47:14 -!- nitor [~nitor@cpe-66-25-205-147.sw.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:49:57 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:50:00 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 22:50:10 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 22:50:19 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:51:18 -!- schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:52:31 -!- badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:54:18 -!- astalla [~astalla@93-36-225-123.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 22:54:56 schmrkc [~marcus@c83-254-197-212.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 22:54:56 -!- schmrkc [~marcus@c83-254-197-212.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Changing host] 22:54:57 schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 22:56:28 -!- sugarshark [~ole@p4FDAA4AE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:56:58 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@aol-billing.strace.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:57:31 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.80.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:58:49 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@port-10253.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:59:04 -!- schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:04:08 ikki [~ikki@189.247.80.84] has joined #lisp 23:04:10 -!- maden [~maden@modemcable068.120-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:04:20 nitor [~nitor@cpe-66-25-205-147.sw.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:05:06 schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 23:05:47 Joreji [~thomas@86-129.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 23:06:06 syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-111-84.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:07:56 -!- nitor [~nitor@cpe-66-25-205-147.sw.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:11:58 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@a91-153-126-10.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:13:18 pix4 [~pixel@p4FC568AB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:16:07 -!- symbole [~chatzilla@h-69-3-39-78.nycmny83.static.covad.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.6/20100625231939]] 23:16:40 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.80.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:17:18 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 23:19:16 ikki [~ikki@189.247.80.84] has joined #lisp 23:22:43 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-24-28-30-165.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:24:03 nitor [~nitor@cpe-66-25-205-147.sw.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp