00:02:03 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 00:07:17 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:11:11 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:11:17 Okay, I've checked the invariants forward and backward, I've implemented the simplest scheme for interrupt context scavenging that can be seen to obviously not fail, and I'm drawing a blank on those fronts. 00:11:19 -!- fusss [~bob@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:12:03 So what next comes to mind is that perhaps, just perhaps, the interrupt context isn't getting scavenged for a GC for some reason. 00:13:24 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:14:36 (: 00:15:57 -!- Madsy [~madman@fu/coder/madsy] has quit [] 00:16:24 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.3.58] has joined #lisp 00:17:25 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:20:20 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 00:20:27 btbngr [~btbgnr@smorge2.force9.co.uk] has joined #lisp 00:20:46 -!- dfox [~dfox@r3ah113.net.upc.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:20:58 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!] 00:21:42 davazp [~user@83.55.180.105] has joined #lisp 00:23:12 -!- btbngr1 [~btbgnr@smorge2.force9.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:25:33 -!- BrianRice [~water@c-76-115-44-87.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: BrianRice] 00:25:45 Could someone help me about a little piece of code? All I want to do is iterate, character by character, at a string. http://paste.lisp.org/display/112490 00:26:18 BrianRice [~water@c-76-115-44-87.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:26:51 didi: why not use (loop for char across string do ...) 00:27:16 adeht: Because I am too much of a newbie? ;) 00:27:39 adeht: Thank you. I will try it. 00:28:05 didi: it's 1+, not +1.. and >=, not > 00:29:22 adeht: Damn. Thank you. 00:31:32 *Xach* adds lichtblau's, liamh's suggestions from earlier 00:33:49 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 00:36:09 jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:42:29 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:43:04 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 00:44:11 Madsy [~madman@ti0207a340-0076.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 00:44:11 -!- Madsy [~madman@ti0207a340-0076.bb.online.no] has quit [Changing host] 00:44:11 Madsy [~madman@fu/coder/madsy] has joined #lisp 00:46:47 -!- konr [~user@201.82.129.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:46:58 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:47:27 konr [~user@201.82.129.247] has joined #lisp 00:48:48 bigjust [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:04 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 00:51:21 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-22-10.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:53:08 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:55:06 syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-111-84.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:56:53 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:59:27 -!- Anarch [~olaf@c-67-171-37-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:59:40 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:00:16 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-111-84.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:00:23 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109.93.104.234] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:01:51 manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:04:33 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-66-118.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:06:37 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:08:43 mdj [~mjenkins@apnonl.lnk.telstra.net] has joined #lisp 01:11:51 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 01:13:16 -!- Komi [Komi@83.231.86.190] has quit [] 01:13:21 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:14:50 TDT [~user@173-30-32-53.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 01:18:24 kirtu [~imann75@CPE001921132a92-CM0011e6c52d29.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 01:19:17 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 01:19:28 hi 01:20:04 hola 01:20:10 k 01:20:16 -!- kirtu [~imann75@CPE001921132a92-CM0011e6c52d29.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #lisp 01:21:59 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-65-76.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 01:25:40 <_3b`> hmm, i seem to have some ram usage issues somewhere in my compiler :p 01:27:14 *_3b`* wonders if the ram on the laptop is expandable 01:27:38 <_3b`> 4gib doesn't seem to be enough 01:32:47 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:33:27 Bah. 640k should be enough for anybody. 01:33:29 -!- dabd [~dabd@a81-84-79-168.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 01:33:51 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:34:15 <_3b`> apparently not me :p 01:34:36 <_3b`> sbcl is 2gb RES, and probably quite a bit swapped as well 01:35:15 *_3b`* can't tell exactly now much though, since top seems to thing evrything between RES and VIRT is swap 01:36:43 -!- rrice [~rrice@adsl-99-164-35-250.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:38:27 <_3b`> hmm, if it doesn't notice me trying to interrupt it from slime soon, i think i'll have to kill it from the shell :p 01:38:40 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:41:52 <_3b`> ok, kill -9 it is 01:42:37 <_3b`> seems to have been close to 2g into swap 01:47:20 -!- mrbug [~user@unaffiliated/mrbug] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:47:37 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483BB48.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:48:10 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-74-103-38-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:49:52 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 01:50:45 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 01:53:58 Anarch [~olaf@c-67-171-37-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:55:13 -!- curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:56:32 _3b`: You tried to print a recursive structure with *print-circle* set to NIL, didn't you? 01:58:13 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-129-229.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 01:59:08 seidos [~kevin@cpe-76-168-0-89.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:04:00 -!- Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-yccxrlflblolvmsn] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:04:05 Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-uhpezzizurvwlsxx] has joined #lisp 02:06:38 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 02:07:22 <_3b`> ...actually, i suppose i am 02:08:13 <_3b`> and if i fix that, i get ENOMEM and LDB at around 900MB instead :p 02:08:15 -!- jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:09:14 -!- chairos [~jon@inklesspen.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:10:16 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.141.209] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:15:50 nyef: ping 02:17:56 <_3b`> is (nsubst 'new 'old 'old) valid? sbcl warns about passing constant data to nsubst 02:18:08 <_3b`> (when compiling it, not just entering it in repl 02:18:33 clhs nsubst 02:18:34 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_substc.htm 02:19:26 It's probably a bad idea to destructively modify the const tree. 02:19:50 <_3b`> does it modify it though? 02:20:35 -!- jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit [Quit: good night everyone] 02:20:42 *_3b`* can't tell if a single leaf is a valid tree or not 02:20:56 Yeah, I'm not sure about that. 02:25:37 gonzojive_ [~red@128.12.169.254] has joined #lisp 02:26:41 <_3b`> i suppose i could make a new symbol or something and pass that to it 02:26:53 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:27:20 <_3b`> or just ignore sbcl i guess, since these are all supposed to return T anyway i think 02:29:25 What is (nsubst 'new 'old 'old) really supposed to do? 02:29:41 <_3b`> return 'new seems reasonable to me 02:30:11 jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:30:39 tcr [~tcr@115.132.79.190] has joined #lisp 02:31:07 Without modifying the "tree" 'old? Whatever that means. 02:31:14 <_3b`> 'old is a tree with only 1 leaf, nsubst replaces that leaf with 'new and returns the resulting tree 02:31:51 <_3b`> 'but the result may not be eq to tree' seems to apply to that case 02:32:20 peterhil [peterhil@ZYKMDCLXV.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 02:33:05 I guess so. 02:33:22 <_3b`> there is no 'list structure' in 'old, so nothing needs destructively modified 02:35:33 bigjust` [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:36:53 -!- bigjust [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:40:29 _3b`: I thought single leaves were always considered valid trees? 02:40:41 Otherwise it is difficult to establish a recursive definition 02:41:14 without causing the need to look-ahead in algorithms 02:41:15 <_3b`> right, that is what makes me consider it reasonable, but i don't have specific spec language to point at 02:41:28 hm 02:41:47 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 02:42:35 cpc26 [~cpc26@dpc6747131073.direcpc.com] has joined #lisp 02:42:50 -!- cpc26 [~cpc26@dpc6747131073.direcpc.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:45:01 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:45:10 *_3b`* adds it to the list of random things i should file a bug on at some point 02:49:13 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:50:10 <_3b`> beach: ping 02:50:36 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 02:51:57 Eno_ [~quassel@fl-71-55-191-79.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 02:52:23 hi.. i doubt you can help me, but i have this runtime error when running a lisp program: http://pastebin.com/XPjtTbFe 02:52:35 any intuitiona bout what it could be? 02:53:06 it says compile time error on the top 02:53:23 but sorry, no, I have no idea about it 02:54:05 ok 02:54:07 <_3b`> try macroexpanding that form maybe? 02:55:55 -!- silenius [~silenius@c-24-130-172-194.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:56:06 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 02:56:29 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:56:31 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:56:31 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:59:07 Or define _make-body-two-list? 02:59:21 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:01:15 unfortunately, this was written by someone else. i've gotten it to work before but i don't remember how. i don't know lisp 03:02:33 <_3b`> possibly you loaded things in the wrong order, or didn't load everything? 03:03:23 hmm 03:04:40 -!- peterhil [peterhil@ZYKMDCLXV.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:08:17 billitch [~billitch@dslb-088-075-177-102.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 03:16:18 vmmenon [~vmmenon@c-67-183-8-193.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:21:30 gzip4 [~xxx@78.108.73.250] has joined #lisp 03:22:20 -!- btbngr [~btbgnr@smorge2.force9.co.uk] has left #lisp 03:22:22 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:25:58 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 03:30:05 hohoho [~hohoho@p4ae269.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:31:56 *rtoym* wonders why undefined_tramp can return on sparc, but not on x86. 03:44:47 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 03:55:20 asarch [~asarch@189.188.141.209] has joined #lisp 03:56:14 bandu [kvirc@pool-71-164-242-252.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:59:30 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@67.201.82.8] has joined #lisp 04:01:52 -!- djm [~djm@paludis/slacker/djm] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:03:24 -!- Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:05:40 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@p4ae269.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:05:59 hohoho [~hohoho@p4ae269.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:09:02 -!- billitch [~billitch@dslb-088-075-177-102.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:11:53 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:12:21 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 04:19:11 Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 04:19:52 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:19:58 -!- vmmenon [~vmmenon@c-67-183-8-193.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: vmmenon] 04:21:05 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 04:28:35 -!- jhalogen [~jake@cpe-98-154-250-117.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: jhalogen] 04:29:11 -!- Avisch [~NONE@cpe-24-93-16-141.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:35:44 Avisch [~Avisch@cpe-24-93-16-141.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:36:06 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-egvblpnjrdcwbjrw] has joined #lisp 04:38:37 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:39:35 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 04:41:03 -!- bandu is now known as coyo 04:44:06 -!- bigjust` [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:50:24 -!- potatishandlarn [potatishan@c-b21e593f-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [] 04:51:31 s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-216-141.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 04:52:14 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.141.209] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:56:13 austinh [~austinh@c-24-21-81-46.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:00:43 -!- rme [rme@clozure-F99A37CC.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 05:00:43 -!- rme [~rme@pool-68-238-7-51.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 05:04:59 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 05:05:00 -!- thunk [~user@unaffiliated/thunk] has left #lisp 05:08:01 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 05:08:31 Good morning! 05:09:41 OliverUv: He was mine as well, more than 30 years ago. 05:09:42 I am confused by the output location of the compiled fasl with asdf2. I have systems where they are saved in the same place and others to ~/.cache 05:10:56 <_3b`> beach: you should test sicl with a stricter LOOP, you can't mix FOR and UNTIL clauses 05:12:37 <_3b`> beach: not sure why maplist and mapl compiler-macros use for/until instead of IN in the first place though 05:12:44 _3b`: You mean the order? That's true. Where did you find some use of that? 05:13:22 _3b`: IN tests the end of the list by using ATOM. 05:13:31 So some errors go undetected. 05:13:36 <_3b`> ah, ok 05:16:04 <_3b`> beach: http://paste.lisp.org/display/112498 is what i changed them to to get them to compile with sacla LOOP 05:17:00 _3b`: Thanks! 05:18:06 <_3b`> have you tested the setf functions for c**r much? 05:19:52 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:19:55 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:19:58 <_3b`> those are failing for me, but haven't looked to see if that is my code or sicl breaking (they seem to try to call (setf car)/(setf cdr) with only 1 arg 05:20:44 _3b`: I don't see any tests for them, so they may be insufficiently tested. 05:20:52 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 05:21:59 *_3b`* is still just scanning through the test results looking for obvious things like ASSERT not being implemented yet 05:22:33 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:24:54 _3b`: Fixed the compiler macros! Thanks! 05:29:18 <_3b`> up to 455 pass/172 fail/88 error on the sacla cons tests 05:29:47 <_3b`> not having EQ symbols, or setf expansions is probably a good chunk of the rest 05:31:18 _3b`: That's possible indeed. 05:32:49 Not having EQ symbols doesn't sound right wrt to the standard. 05:33:03 <_3b`> no, it isn't 05:33:13 <_3b`> i mean more that i'm not interning them though 05:33:25 <_3b`> (not that i'm doing eq/eql/etc correctly either) 05:33:32 I see. 05:33:45 <_3b`> i'm getting a check-type failure from (NCONC (CONS 1 2) (CONS 3 4)) 05:33:59 <_3b`> which sbcl says should be (1 3 . 4) 05:35:11 I think SBCL is right. 05:35:26 Yeah, it says that it accepts dotted lists and then smashes the dots. 05:36:07 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:36:44 dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 05:37:44 -!- davazp [~user@83.55.180.105] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:41:00 Joreji [~thomas@86-129.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 05:44:30 tcr1 [~tcr@115.132.79.190] has joined #lisp 05:44:54 -!- tcr [~tcr@115.132.79.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:47:02 beach` [~user@ABordeaux-158-1-71-172.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 05:48:11 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-158-1-30-154.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:48:15 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@rrcs-97-77-55-50.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:48:52 -!- seidos [~kevin@cpe-76-168-0-89.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:49:56 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:50:12 aliasxerog [~aliasxero@c-98-231-146-48.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:50:36 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-15-76.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 05:51:31 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 05:51:54 -!- Joreji [~thomas@86-129.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:52:53 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-65-76.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:56:53 bordeaux-fft seems to have problems with asdf2 05:57:40 adu [~ajr@softbank220043138128.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 05:58:41 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:58:41 <_3b`> beach`: looks like the (setf c**r) problems are probably my code, not sicl 05:58:48 -!- beach` is now known as beach 05:59:19 _3b`: Ah, OK. Thanks! 05:59:20 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 05:59:51 Davse_Bamse [~davse@82.103.143.161] has joined #lisp 05:59:55 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 06:00:28 Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-120-72.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:01:50 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:02:03 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-197-65.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:02:06 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-164-64.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 06:04:17 -!- Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:05:29 -!- Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:07:04 Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 06:08:29 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-197-65.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 06:08:34 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 06:09:04 seidos [~kevin@cpe-76-168-0-89.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:09:37 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 06:09:43 <_3b`> beach: ah, looks like i'm getting names mixed up while inside setf functions, so when it tries to call car, it actually calls (setf car) instead 06:09:48 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 06:11:11 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:15:47 -!- Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-120-72.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: REALITY IS TEARING ITSELF ASUNDER, BUT I MUST RACE] 06:23:00 -!- Avisch [~Avisch@cpe-24-93-16-141.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:23:45 -!- adu [~ajr@softbank220043138128.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 06:26:45 HG` [~HG@xdsleg148.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 06:26:51 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.156.41] has joined #lisp 06:27:46 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-26-61-108.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 06:29:02 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 06:29:21 -!- seidos [~kevin@cpe-76-168-0-89.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:31:57 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:32:48 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:32:55 relcomp [~chatzilla@pc92-e03-3.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE] has joined #lisp 06:34:22 Joreji [~thomas@81-006.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 06:34:34 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 06:36:53 <_3b`> beach: sicl and sbcl disagree about (NSUBLIS '(((A) . 1) ((B) . 2) ((C) . 3)) (COPY-TREE '((((A))) ((B)) (C))) :KEY #'CAR :TEST #'EQUAL) as well 06:38:29 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 06:39:40 -!- tltstc [~tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:40:31 _3b`: Thanks, I'll look into that. 06:46:49 badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 06:49:28 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 06:49:52 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@rrcs-97-77-55-50.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:54:53 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.6] has joined #lisp 06:56:34 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-197-65.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 06:56:35 _ace4016_ [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-197-65.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 06:57:04 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:57:05 -!- _ace4016_ is now known as ace4016 07:02:28 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 07:02:59 Rats! Debian's new cl-asdf (2:1.704-1) doesn't load cl-f2cl any more. 07:03:00 Good morning. 07:03:28 christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 07:03:40 -!- aliasxerog [~aliasxero@c-98-231-146-48.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has left #lisp 07:04:46 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:05:00 that'll teach you not to use debian packages 07:05:31 They promised that there is a new clc-clbuild. 07:06:01 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@67.201.82.8] has quit [Quit: galaxywatcher] 07:06:19 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 07:06:32 Should I drop them all and replace them by clbuild? 07:06:33 I know my system is quite a mess: clbuild + debians cl-.* 07:06:35 tltstc [~tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:06:52 -!- Dodek [dodek@jest.pro] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:08:02 sellout [~greg@212.234.38.214] has joined #lisp 07:09:35 dfox [~dfox@r3ah113.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 07:15:53 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:22:15 -!- badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPod touch - http://colloquy.mobi] 07:22:36 evening 07:22:57 sylrus: morning. 07:25:26 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 07:25:56 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-egvblpnjrdcwbjrw] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:26:58 NeverGone [~NeverGone@78-131-94-203.pool.hdsnet.hu] has joined #lisp 07:27:19 -!- NeverGone [~NeverGone@78-131-94-203.pool.hdsnet.hu] has left #lisp 07:29:59 djm [~djm@paludis/slacker/djm] has joined #lisp 07:34:32 bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has joined #lisp 07:36:07 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-230-16.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 07:38:57 -!- Joreji [~thomas@81-006.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:39:16 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:39:27 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-64-200-182.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:40:30 cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has joined #lisp 07:42:04 blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 07:42:05 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 07:45:58 some function names are really long eg string-output-stream-ioblock-write-char-without-translation-when-locked-function 07:47:35 most emacs like lisp IDEs have completion of the kind s-o-s-i 07:48:01 that name takes up half of my screen 07:48:36 And note: you should not write past 100 colums (or was it 80?) 07:48:56 80 07:49:04 and this functions is 80 characters long 07:49:16 that is in CCL. 07:50:20 mal__: certainly, that's how I found it. 07:50:22 the only google result is logs with me saying that it's the longest function in ccl 07:51:42 I suspect a shorter name will be as clear. 07:51:47 maybe there should be a macro (with-function-prefixes (short string-output-stream-ioblock-write-char-without-translation-when-locked) (short-function . args)) ? 07:52:04 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:52:34 "I am confused by the output location of the compiled fasl with asdf2. I have systems where they are saved in the same place and others to ~/.cache" 07:53:29 Does someone know? 07:53:30 -!- hankhero [~Adium@c-b21fb7c4-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:54:11 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:55:19 hankhero [~Adium@c-b21fb7c4-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 07:56:19 Is this due to common-lisp-controller? 07:56:28 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:01:50 I don't know what is common-lisp-controller. 08:02:13 I am on osx 08:03:30 My asdf2 initialised like this http://paste.pocoo.org/show/DO7nnRLIRNAR1fZkIBWy/ 08:07:21 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 08:13:08 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-197-65.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire.] 08:13:56 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:15:18 good morning 08:17:46 morning 08:17:47 Stattrav_ [~Stattrav@117.192.143.245] has joined #lisp 08:18:54 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.156.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:19:22 leo2007: I just hacked that. Could it be handy? http://paste.lisp.org/+2ET3 08:19:43 ... for looooooooooooooooooooooooooong-function-names? 08:20:41 Just define a module which rewrites the symbols for you using macrolet and symbol-macrolet :) 08:21:25 yes. That's better. 08:22:17 why is it better? 08:22:50 It doesn't introduce unnecessary new function objects. 08:23:28 it's better to change the design so that your functions won't need such convoluted names 08:24:08 relcomp: the macrolet solution also doesn't introduce function names.. 08:24:14 Sometimes you use libraries. You can't ask the author of a library to change design. 08:24:20 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-awvtgudfecbqfelf] has joined #lisp 08:25:05 You're missing the point. 08:25:09 The long name is good. 08:25:12 relcomp: so (i) do it yourself (ii) use another library (iii) just deal with it.. you chose (iv) overkill 08:25:14 adeth: I indeed meant : the macrolet solution [..] doesn't introduce function names.. 08:25:20 You just want to pick a shorter one in a context where you know what it means. 08:25:44 The library writer can't shorten it because he doesn't know the context of use. 08:26:15 Zhivago: That was my intent. 08:26:38 relcomp: that's a shortcoming.. now you can't use the short name as a function name 08:27:36 peterhil [peterhil@ZYKMMCMXXIII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 08:28:11 relcomp: cheers. I actually don't use that long function in ccl, saw it because it push some of the info from fuzzy completion off screen. 08:28:16 adeth: Can't you? I didn't test it yet and my Lisp knowledge is not so deep that I can tell it in advance. symbol-maclrolet looks as the best approach to me. 08:29:17 relcomp: symbol-macrolet doesn't deal with function space 08:29:26 zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.144.13] has joined #lisp 08:29:42 Well ... macros are in the same space as functions in CL. 08:29:57 Zhivago: (mapcar (function ) ...) 08:30:46 it's better to flet and declare inline 08:35:36 leo2007: with such a name I'd expect this function to be something internal, not meant for public consumption.. 08:35:48 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@93.111.144.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:35:50 yeah 08:38:11 thunk [~user@unaffiliated/thunk] has joined #lisp 08:38:51 I would doubt the quality of a library exposing such intricate functionality.. (think show-stripper/bowels ;) 08:39:34 Namespaces would be nice for CL. 08:39:57 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:41:05 Zhivago: A replacement for packages? 08:41:32 No. Packages solve a different problem. 08:41:52 Packages solve the problem of separate authorship. 08:41:55 zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.175.151] has joined #lisp 08:42:27 What you want is something that helps you to rewrite names based on which namespace you're in. 08:42:37 But you can use them as namespaces, too. 08:43:02 Except that they don't affect the names. 08:43:21 They just allow you to select one of symbols for a name. 08:43:42 (Which allows you to differentiate between my:foo and your:foo) 08:44:17 But that doesn't allow you to say I'm in the blah namespace, so when I wrote zog, see if there's a blah-zog, and if so, that's what I mean. 08:44:21 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 08:45:42 zomgbie_ [~jesus@188.45.175.151] has joined #lisp 08:46:09 People say that CL has lots of namespaces, but it's more that CL has many valuespaces. 08:46:22 foo is one name with multiple values in different contexts. 08:46:51 depends how you look at it 08:47:00 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has left #lisp 08:47:42 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-37-212.w92-148.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:48:41 I just made some changes, and am, indeed, thinking of using them: http://paste.lisp.org/+2ET3/1 08:48:43 Not realy, no. 08:49:22 Consider -- can you export the function named foo without exporting the value named foo and the class named foo and the ...? 08:49:34 You can't, because they're only one name. 08:49:42 there's, even. 08:50:08 it's akin to the distinction between "term" and "concept". "foo" is indeed the same name (term), but it can designate several concepts (bindings or values) 08:50:15 If there were multiple namespaces, then you could deal with those names separately. 08:50:40 You would effectively have function foo, variable foo, class foo, ... 08:50:44 heh, switched order halfway 08:50:53 well, exporting isn't concerned about values at all, it's only about names, and that name means different things in different "namespaces" 08:50:59 It's akin to the distinction between having multiple names and multiple values. :) 08:51:30 stassats: That name has different values in different contexts, yes -- which is why those contexts aren't namespaces. 08:51:37 Zhivago: Would that be a solution? (defclass my-classes:foo ...) (defun my-functions:foo () ...) 08:51:49 you can implement it as a symbol with three slots, or as three hash-tables with symbols as keys 08:52:16 relcomp: You can abuse packages like that to try to force a 1:1 relationship between name and value if you like. 08:52:30 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:52:49 relcomp: But that won't give you any of the things we expect of namespaces, like incremental implicit qualification. 08:53:11 ... like what? 08:53:13 packages provide a namespace for symbols 08:53:22 *namespaces 08:53:29 relcomp: e.g., like a::b::c::d is the same name as b::c::d in the a namespace in C++. 08:53:48 packages provide a way to differentiate symbols from different authors. 08:53:59 That's all. 08:54:02 so the same name "FOO" can designate several values my:foo, your:foo depending on the context (package) 08:54:12 This is called incremental-implicit-qualification? 08:54:27 well, i, the only author, use packages to differentiate between different things 08:54:46 relcomp: Well, I added a as an implicit qualification, and I can then add b to get a::b as an implicit qualification ... 08:55:01 relcomp: That sounds like incremental implicit qualification to me. 08:55:41 so CL does support multiple namespaces, but only for a specific values (symbols) 08:55:43 adeht: The string "FOO" can designate several symbols MY:FOO or YOUR:FOO depending on context. 08:55:50 Zhivago: that's what I said 08:56:14 dialtone [~dialtone@c-67-180-50-184.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:56:14 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@c-67-180-50-184.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 08:56:14 dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 08:56:43 adhet: The name of the symbol my:foo is "FOO". 08:56:55 [11:57] so the same name "FOO" can designate several values my:foo, your:foo depending on the context (package) 08:56:55 08:57:16 adeht: So while packages provide a partitioning of string to symbol mappings, they don't provide any services for names apart from disambiguation. 08:57:27 adeht: You have misused value. 08:57:34 And name. 08:58:07 What is happening here is that you're mapping the source text to a name -- names in CL are represented with symbols. 08:58:21 Zhivago: this is wrong 08:58:30 So the same string "FOO" can designate several names my:foo and your:foo. 08:58:36 Regarding? 08:58:37 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.175.151] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:58:51 Zhivago: names of symbols and of packages are strings for example, not symbols 08:59:02 -!- zomgbie_ [~jesus@188.45.175.151] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:59:12 I'm not talking about the names of symbols and packages. I'm talking about names in CL. 08:59:15 Joreji [~thomas@81-006.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 08:59:26 (defvar x 10) what variable does x name? 08:59:48 x is the name here -- not "X". 09:00:01 Zhivago: variables are named by symbols.. "names in CL", in my mind, refers to more than variable names, function names, go tag names, etc. 09:00:12 it also includes symbol names, package names, etc. 09:00:37 So, what does the name of a symbol name? Nothing. 09:00:42 -!- pkhuong [~pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:00:47 Zhivago: huh? 09:00:55 What does (symbol-name 'x) name? 09:01:09 Zhivago: it names the symbol X in the current package 09:01:12 Apart from a place, ala (setf (symbol-name 'x) Y) 09:01:35 No. It's a string that shows how to print that symbol, or how to intern another symbol to it. 09:01:40 (the package where the form was read) 09:01:52 ejs [~eugen@92.49.220.56] has joined #lisp 09:01:54 You're confusing the concepts of name and of label. 09:02:32 Zhivago: so it should be symbol-label in Zhivago-CL? 09:02:46 ZL? 09:02:55 I'd suggest symbol-print-string as being least open to misinterpretation. 09:04:04 Zhivago: I don't think I'm confusing anything.. 09:04:05 Anyhow, think of it like this -- (symbol-name x) <- which symbol does this name? 09:04:29 it names the symbol that is the value of X 09:04:46 What about the other symbols with that name? 09:04:54 what about them? 09:05:02 Doesn't it name them, too? :) 09:05:03 names, like terms, are always contextual 09:05:18 Yes, and the symbol-name doesn't have that context. 09:05:24 so? 09:05:31 That's why it isn't a name -- it's just a label that you can print out or match against. 09:05:38 ??? 09:05:44 x has that lexical context, which is why it can be a variable name. 09:05:44 you just agreed with me that names are contextual 09:06:01 I did, but the string produces by (symbol-name x) doesn't have that context. 09:06:05 pkhuong [~pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 09:06:08 So it cannot be a name itself. 09:07:05 perhaps you take it to mean that they contain everything that constitutes a context? I would call _that_ confusion 09:07:05 what I mean is that names always presuppose a context outside them 09:07:13 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754e60.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:07:21 In which case name is now meaningless. 09:07:38 Can you name anything that isn't a name, given that definition? 09:07:46 -!- Stattrav_ [~Stattrav@117.192.143.245] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:10:24 it's meaningless as a symbol name if it's stripped out of the context, which is a the package, the Lisp world, etc. 09:10:24 that's why the names of uninterned symbols are useless, other than "print names" 09:10:54 and yet, they are still names.. that you can't get the object they designate (because you don't have enough context) is another thing 09:12:19 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:12:19 -!- sellout [~greg@212.234.38.214] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:12:19 -!- christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:12:19 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:12:19 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-26-61-108.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:12:19 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-164-64.static.vologda.ru] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:12:19 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:12:19 -!- Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-uhpezzizurvwlsxx] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:12:19 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:12:19 -!- manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:12:19 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:12:19 -!- fractal_heart [~matomic@mzhang-linux.ucsd.edu] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:12:19 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:12:19 -!- lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-211-112.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:12:19 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:12:19 -!- prip [~foo@host163-125-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:12:19 -!- Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:12:19 -!- jpanest [~jpanest@174-143-154-194.static.cloud-ips.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:12:20 -!- reb [~user@nat/google/x-wqthalksheddacgr] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:12:20 -!- tic [~tic@c83-249-199-86.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:12:20 -!- spacebat [~spacebat@ubermonkey.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:12:20 -!- syntaxman [wade@funtoo/user/syntaxman] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:12:20 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:12:20 -!- konr [~user@201.82.129.247] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:12:20 -!- Odin-` [~sbkhh@157.157.93.22] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:12:20 -!- c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:12:21 -!- dym [~dym@217.20.175.226] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:12:21 -!- mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:12:21 -!- foom [~jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:12:21 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:12:21 -!- adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-51-224.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:12:21 -!- Tasunteld [~jsz@rps312.ovh.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:12:21 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:12:21 -!- ``Erik [Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:12:21 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:12:21 -!- rapacity [~prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:12:21 -!- jsnell [~jsnell@vasara.proghammer.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:12:21 -!- Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@2001:ba8:1f1:f0ed:216:5eff:fe00:16b] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:12:22 -!- nasloc__ [tim@163.16.211.21] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:12:22 -!- cYmen [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 09:13:02 christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 09:13:44 reb [~user@nat/google/x-cohchifdqsayscmi] has joined #lisp 09:14:07 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 09:14:19 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 09:14:46 jpanest [~jpanest@174-143-154-194.static.cloud-ips.com] has joined #lisp 09:15:20 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 09:15:30 tic [~tic@c83-249-199-86.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 09:15:33 adeht: Is there anything that isn't a name? 09:15:42 || (-: 09:15:54 (jk, that's also a name) 09:16:02 manic12 [~andrew@99.100.67.123] has joined #lisp 09:16:28 So name is meaningless. 09:17:01 That's the problem with your approach. 09:17:19 You've confused a name with something that can be used to construct a name. 09:17:20 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 09:18:08 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-awvtgudfecbqfelf] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:18:39 zomgbie_ [~jesus@213.235.232.110] has joined #lisp 09:18:39 zomgbie [~jesus@213.235.232.110] has joined #lisp 09:18:42 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@2a01:4f8:101:4221::2] has joined #lisp 09:18:42 Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-qzmdbzcgloglmepn] has joined #lisp 09:18:42 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 09:18:42 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-26-61-108.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 09:18:42 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-164-64.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 09:18:42 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 09:18:42 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:18:42 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 09:18:42 konr [~user@201.82.129.247] has joined #lisp 09:18:42 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:18:42 Odin-` [~sbkhh@157.157.93.22] has joined #lisp 09:18:42 fractal_heart [~matomic@mzhang-linux.ucsd.edu] has joined #lisp 09:18:42 c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:18:42 lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-211-112.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 09:18:42 prip [~foo@host163-125-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 09:18:42 dym [~dym@217.20.175.226] has joined #lisp 09:18:42 mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:18:42 foom [~jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 09:18:42 arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 09:18:42 adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-51-224.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 09:18:42 Tasunteld [~jsz@rps312.ovh.net] has joined #lisp 09:18:42 Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has joined #lisp 09:18:42 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 09:18:42 ``Erik [Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:18:42 mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has joined #lisp 09:18:42 syntaxman [wade@funtoo/user/syntaxman] has joined #lisp 09:18:42 rapacity [~prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has joined #lisp 09:18:42 cYmen [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has joined #lisp 09:18:42 nasloc__ [tim@163.16.211.21] has joined #lisp 09:18:42 Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@2001:ba8:1f1:f0ed:216:5eff:fe00:16b] has joined #lisp 09:18:42 jsnell [~jsnell@vasara.proghammer.com] has joined #lisp 09:18:42 spacebat [~spacebat@ubermonkey.net] has joined #lisp 09:18:43 -!- m`` [~m@usealice.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 09:19:17 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 09:19:28 m`` [~m@usealice.org] has joined #lisp 09:19:39 sellout [~greg@212.234.38.214] has joined #lisp 09:20:15 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-kjvmaoigejblxlsf] has joined #lisp 09:20:59 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 09:21:29 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@2a01:4f8:101:4221::2] has quit [Changing host] 09:21:29 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 09:21:33 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 09:22:14 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-230-16.vodafone.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:23:26 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754e60.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:23:35 -!- zomgbie_ [~jesus@213.235.232.110] has quit [Client Quit] 09:24:47 -!- schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:24:52 schmrkc [~marcus@c83-254-197-212.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 09:24:52 -!- schmrkc [~marcus@c83-254-197-212.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Changing host] 09:24:52 schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 09:28:59 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 09:32:40 I am somehow missing an /explicit/ guarantee in the HS, that (delete-if test seq) calls test on each element in seq exactly once. 09:32:42 The HS says "iteratively" in 17.2.1 (17_ba.htm). 09:32:43 I know that the contrary doesn't make sense at all, but I'd prefer a written guarantee to common sense. 09:32:45 (I want test to also modify the elements -- something I never did before) 09:34:25 -!- ejs [~eugen@92.49.220.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:35:16 it says "iteratively against each element" 09:37:01 so that's >= 1 (: 09:37:04 17.2.1 is irrelevant to your use case 09:37:32 antifuchs: And that guarantee somehow "creeps into" 17.2.2? 09:41:42 no idea 09:42:29 Why do you care? 09:45:55 I modify the kept elements: (not (when keep (do-stuff-with kept))) 09:45:57 However, I don't want to risk (do-stuff-with x) ... (do-stuff-with x) with a kept x. 09:47:16 do-stuff always returns true. 09:48:01 Komi [Komi@62.32.130.114] has joined #lisp 09:49:05 relcomp: sounds like a future reader of your code would be better served if you wrote this loop yourself. 09:49:40 heh, damn, thought I'd be able to start writing my app by looking at the examples that came with Clim 09:49:57 that looks waaay too advanced now though, so I'm about to go dig myself down in some guides 09:50:30 anyone point to good info on declaring types? 09:50:43 OliverUv: generally, the listener is the best "real" application to use as an example 09:50:49 Dodek [dodek@jest.pro] has joined #lisp 09:50:56 Demosthenes: i know one: "don't lie to the compiler" 09:51:12 it's a bit big, but as you use it (and it's useful!), you can easily discover things of which you would like to know how they work (: 09:51:28 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-dvrwzajkadvnzvtx] has joined #lisp 09:51:42 stassats: i mean (declare (type ... 09:51:59 Demosthenes: yes 09:52:51 thats spectacularly useless. i asked if someone had an example or reference, and you say "don't lie". wtf. 09:53:04 the docs i'm findout outside the hyperspec are thin on the ground 09:53:39 i'm more interested in stronger type checking than i am speed 09:53:48 antifuchs: ah, thanks! 09:53:50 clhs check-type 09:53:51 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_check_.htm 09:53:57 Demosthenes: how about this? (: 09:53:58 Demosthenes: declarations are not for type checking 09:54:48 -!- Komi [Komi@62.32.130.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:54:53 adeht: see, thats useful! if turning up safety on sbcl != type checking with declare... 09:55:04 Demos: See Qi. 09:55:17 Demosthenes: if you want information about, consider the sbcl manual 09:55:21 *about sbcl 09:55:38 been there, like i said, info is thin on the ground 09:56:03 i was seeing examples that used declare in a function, and with high safety it seemed to provide type checking and compiler hints for performance. 09:56:34 antifuchs: thats a shortcut to me doing a check myself with type-of ;] 09:56:34 demos: In CL, type declarations are promises, not assertions. 09:56:47 -!- hankhero [~Adium@c-b21fb7c4-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:56:55 demos: SBCL makes them into assertions at high safety levels. 09:57:00 thats why i was looking for more info ;] 09:57:07 Demosthenes: I think stassats meant that declarations should be treated as promises about possible values.. so it'd be bad to "lie" to the compiler 09:57:35 could be. 09:57:41 Demos: You are probably looking for the wrong things in the wrong plac.e 09:58:00 Demos: I suggest looking at Qi rather than CL. 09:58:29 like i said, i saw examples that inferred that declaring types worked as type checking. if thats sbcl only, i'll have to consider that. 09:58:29 Demosthenes: type-of is very bad for type checking 09:58:33 though it seems useful 09:58:36 Demosthenes: you want check-type 09:59:02 Demosthenes: which has more to do with typep 09:59:49 *nod* sounds straightforward to me that thats the preferred method 09:59:53 and you can lie to CHECK-TYPE 10:00:10 stassats: how? :) 10:00:14 any lie will neatly convert into a type-error (: 10:00:17 Demos: Why do you want to do this? 10:00:31 adeht: it won't cause "Note: it is relatively easy to corrupt the heap when weak type checks are used if the program contains type-errors." 10:00:33 That is -- what actual problem are you trying to solve? 10:00:34 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@128.12.169.254] has quit [Quit: gonzojive_] 10:00:40 that was from SBCL manual 10:00:43 Demosthenes: the only really good suggestion anyone gave so far was to take a look at the manual... "Declarations as Assertions" is a key idea in CMUCL and SBCL (but not other implementations). Read up on it. 10:01:01 ECL and ACL followed in that direction recently 10:01:06 -!- tcr1 is now known as tcr 10:01:36 makes perfect sense, as CHECK-TYPE is way overkill with its restart machinery 10:04:23 antifuchs: hm, where can I find the listener app? It isn't in the examples directory 10:04:34 OliverUv: it's in Applications 10:04:35 OliverUv: in Apps 10:04:41 ah, Apps. sorry 10:04:49 since it's actually useful, it goes in there (: 10:05:17 ah, ok, thanks 10:05:19 it lacks a debugger! adding a debugger is a good project to start with 10:05:49 *stassats* is trying to avoid writing it himself 10:05:56 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:06:32 stassats: there was a neat clim debugger once, I think the clim-desktop project integrated it 10:06:44 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:10:02 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:12:25 stassats: it was not terrifyingly useful, as it was in-process. if you messed up inside clim, everything would break (: 10:14:10 LMMark [~LMMark@unaffiliated/lmmark] has joined #lisp 10:14:45 -!- LMMark [~LMMark@unaffiliated/lmmark] has left #lisp 10:15:20 Processes are a concept that lisp systems never really got the hang of. 10:15:49 Probably one of the most critical problems in hindsight. 10:16:24 also pretty useful at times 10:18:24 perhaps, but it's only going to get worse as systems become more distributed. 10:19:07 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:20:17 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 10:21:21 xan_ [~xan@109.144.214.2] has joined #lisp 10:21:44 Zhivago: hindsight is always easy to achieve (: 10:25:01 -!- blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:25:10 Good afternoon! 10:25:53 blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 10:29:03 The trickier part is acting on it. 10:30:35 Komi [Komi@83.231.89.54] has joined #lisp 10:31:59 -!- bgum23 [~bgum23@HERTZ.UNI-MUENSTER.DE] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:32:43 -!- dfox [~dfox@r3ah113.net.upc.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:35:55 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:36:25 NIR[f] [~root@188.92.194.97] has joined #lisp 10:36:33 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 10:38:30 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:40:40 Zhivago: it's not as if lisp development completely stagnates 10:45:07 That's true -- there is NewLisp. 10:45:25 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 10:45:29 maybe the clojure community could benefit from your wisdom 10:45:56 Unlikely. 10:46:16 They've mainly replaced the CL standard library with the java standard library and added some pretty syntax. 10:46:34 I should have said infinite wisdom 10:46:50 Well, only if you're feeling brain damaged today. 10:50:10 is there a short-cut for (sb-sys:int-sap 0)? 10:51:45 (define-symbol-macro *null* (sb-sys:int-sap 0)) 10:52:03 not "how to make a short-cut" 10:52:47 Zhivago: NewLisp is for those who don't have fun with Lisp. See their commercial video :) 10:52:49 ah, minor detail :D 10:53:30 wait, have I just been out-"no, you're stupid!"-ed by Zhivago? 10:53:52 what I meant to suggest is that it's hardly wise to demand of others that they take action 10:54:23 and then belittle the efforts of those that have actually taken such action. 10:54:33 Avisch [~Avisch@cpe-24-93-16-141.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:54:39 learn to rally the troops, man! 10:56:19 antifuchs: Who is demanding that others take action? 10:56:27 anti: Learn to read. 10:57:07 Zhivago: no, you know what I'm going to do? 10:57:14 I'll just fuck off and get some actual work done 10:57:16 anti: Nothing useful? 10:57:17 bgum23_ [~bgum23@HERTZ.UNI-MUENSTER.DE] has joined #lisp 10:57:22 -!- antifuchs [~foobar@baker.boinkor.net] has left #lisp 10:57:24 anti: Close enough :) 10:58:14 relcomp: Hmm, I didn't know that people still made .movs. 10:59:06 I think that newlisp is kind of horrible, but it's probably better suited for a distributed environment than any other 'major' lisp. 10:59:48 in what way ? 11:00:05 timor [~timor@port-92-195-171-35.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 11:00:51 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-49-76.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 11:02:35 Contexts. 11:02:59 What they do is to chop the world up into small pieces they call contexts, and forbid you to refer to anything outside of your context directly. 11:03:15 A context is like a process in that regard. 11:04:18 Since everything pretends to be passed by copying, you need to use contexts to hold any mutable state, and then refer to that context indirectly via a symbol as a name. 11:04:27 -!- manic12 [~andrew@99.100.67.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:04:59 What that means is that it doesn't really matter if a context is on the same machine or not. 11:05:26 At least, if I've understood it properly. 11:06:37 blandest` [~user@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 11:08:18 -!- blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:08:33 fungo [~wangbo@58.20.106.18] has joined #lisp 11:09:51 -!- fungo [~wangbo@58.20.106.18] has quit [Client Quit] 11:10:28 fungo_ [~wangbo@58.20.106.18] has joined #lisp 11:12:17 zomgbie_ [~jesus@213.235.232.110] has joined #lisp 11:13:54 Whereas CL and other lisps tend to go for direct references and everything being in the same place. 11:13:56 barcon332 [~barcon332@208.89.210.254] has joined #lisp 11:19:45 *Odin-* mumbles something about CSP and doing things in a functional style. 11:21:08 the "context"-thing seems to be what i was actually looking for yesterday wrt. reading temporary lisp data. in newlisp it seem to be its mechanism for handling namespaces tho. 11:21:11 That doesn't help. 11:21:40 hypno: Yes, it provides a mutable mapping from symbol to value, and is named by a symbol. 11:22:36 hypno: So they use it like namespaces, but the important qualities are (imho) indirectly refered to by name, and no references cross the boundary of a context. 11:23:33 hypno: In this thing, at least, I think that NewLisp has gotten it pretty much exactly right. 11:24:16 yupp, the later property is kind of nice. are there no extensions for CL that does something similiar tho? you could fake it with package hacks i guess, but... 11:24:31 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:25:05 Packages won't help more than hash-tables. 11:25:36 the only way to fake it is by shadowing all the binding forms, and that still won't help with the built-in stuff 11:25:38 The tricky bit is forcing everything that is passed between two contexts to be effectively copied. 11:25:55 -!- rdd [~user@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:26:08 It comes back to the same problem as sandboxing in CL, which effectively requires reimplementing CL in CL. 11:27:57 ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 11:41:47 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:42:01 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-171-35.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:44:44 gnooth [~peter@ip98-176-79-151.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 11:45:19 -!- Avisch [~Avisch@cpe-24-93-16-141.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:45:26 -!- relcomp [~chatzilla@pc92-e03-3.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE] has left #lisp 11:50:33 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:53:08 -!- xan_ [~xan@109.144.214.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:00:07 Yuuhi [~user@p5483AD92.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:00:51 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 12:10:08 Avisch [~Avisch@cpe-24-93-16-141.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:13:47 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:17:57 -!- fungo_ [~wangbo@58.20.106.18] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:18:36 abugosh [~Adium@pool-74-103-38-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:22:14 -!- coyo [kvirc@pool-71-164-242-252.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: client closed in haste] 12:23:27 -!- schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:23:32 schmrkc [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 12:25:31 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 12:26:15 Zhivago: that, or you can make doing things the right way easier than doing it wrong. 12:26:42 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Client Quit] 12:27:01 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 12:29:15 rplacd [~rplacd@ppp-124-120-124-225.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 12:30:07 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-74-103-38-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:31:43 xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@58.41.3.58] has joined #lisp 12:34:19 incrementing a SAP in a structure results in doing SAP to pointer coercion 12:34:24 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.3.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:35:06 though the slot is declared as sb-sys:system-area-pointer, can SBCL handle it directly? 12:36:43 I don't think there are unboxed saps. But I could be wrong. 12:37:26 stassats: nope. You'll have to transcode with unboxed integers. 12:38:15 that's what i thought 12:42:04 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.3.58] has joined #lisp 12:44:16 -!- xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@58.41.3.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:44:48 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsleg148.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:47:29 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 12:51:31 lispm [~lispm@g224044226.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:55:11 -!- lispm [~lispm@g224044226.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 12:56:21 dsf [~root@41.220.68.1] has joined #lisp 12:56:52 I want to learn how to design elegant programs. I don't know how to program at all. I'm considering a Lisp dialect. Which one is the best for this task, and why? 12:57:22 I want to be able to design data structures and algorithms with taste and style. 12:57:49 dsf: In #lisp, Common Lisp. in some other channel, extrapolate appropriately. 12:58:12 hypno: That makes fairly little sense to me ; Are you recommending CL? 12:58:32 dsf: Yes. 12:58:36 hypno: Reasons. 12:58:37 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:58:48 other dialects have their own channels 12:59:11 this isn't a general-purpose "lisp" channel, as misleading as the name is. 12:59:15 dsf: huh? reasons? because it's a great language. now, stop with the whole troll thing and start reading pcl. 12:59:18 language doesn't matter 12:59:27 if you want to design algorithms 12:59:43 you can use pseudocode 12:59:46 stassats: But for data structures it does. 13:00:03 where's minion? 13:00:05 hypno: You've been placed on ignore. 13:00:19 My loss, I'm sure. *duh* 13:00:29 spiaggia: you can say that data structure is an algorithm 13:02:17 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.3.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:03:45 dsf: You will find some reasons here: http://abhishek.geek.nz/docs/features-of-common-lisp 13:04:10 stassats: spiaggia is of the opinion that the performance of algorithms should take the runtime support into account, both for GCed languages and those with explicit deallocation. 13:07:17 -!- Joreji [~thomas@81-006.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:07:57 pkhuong: I don't recall saying that, but it sounds right. 13:08:23 alright, using unboxed integers i approached the performance of mmap version of my streams 13:08:48 spiaggia: Faint memories from a conversation ~1-2 years ago. 13:09:24 -!- dsf [~root@41.220.68.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:10:04 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 13:10:32 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest36679 13:11:20 -!- Avisch [~Avisch@cpe-24-93-16-141.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:11:51 Avisch [~Avisch@cpe-24-93-16-141.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:12:37 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@p4ae269.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:12:52 timor [~timor@port-92-195-171-35.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 13:13:00 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 13:13:22 asarch [~asarch@189.188.147.80] has joined #lisp 13:15:30 Ugh. My sparc box is so slow... 13:16:32 they usually are, but at least they are consistently slow. :) 13:16:42 -!- Guest36679 [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 13:17:03 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:17:25 rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 13:17:48 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:18:18 rtoym: i got a sparc some years ago and i thought it might be fun to run linux, lisp, etc, but it was too slow to be worthwhile. the disk in particular was bargain-basement bad. 13:18:34 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-64-200-182.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 13:18:45 ...but was it a bargain? 13:19:17 I had an Ultra 45 at work. That was pretty fast. At least fast enough for building/testing/using cmucl that I didn't care. 13:19:59 This blade 1000 is much, much slower. Much slower than I would have expected given the CPU clock ratios. 13:20:07 (1.6 GHz vs 750 MHz) 13:20:35 maybe you became faster? 13:20:52 If anything, I'm older and slower now. :-) 13:20:59 or less patient 13:21:32 or idealizing the past 13:22:12 Are symbols EQL? 13:23:12 Perhaps. But the Ultra 45 compiled cmucl in about 6-7 minutes. I think it takes some 20-30 minutes now. (Hmm. That's about the right ratio.) On par with a 450 MHz Ultra 60. Which doesn't make sense. 13:23:19 Oops, that 13:23:38 's to a very out of date discussion. 13:24:41 rtoym: hmm. that are pretty fast machines! i usually mess with SCL on U10/300mhz/128mb ram and have little issues with performance really. :) 13:24:57 7 minutes, that's faster than SBCL on my hardware 13:25:24 hypno: you're likely not building SCL on that, though. 13:26:05 HG` [~HG@xdsleg148.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 13:26:40 I really liked the Ultra 45. The Blade 1500 at work was pretty nice too. But SBCL always does a cross-compile. CMUCL doesn't normally do that, so the build is a little faster. But 3 builds are usually done and each build was 6-7 minutes. (3-4 on my Mac.) 13:26:56 pkhuong: heh, no, i use core dumps with webserver, slime etc all ready to go. but i /have/ built sbcl 1.0.39 on it. :) 13:28:13 (i sent a mail to sbcl-devel about this even, reporting status) 13:29:48 hypno: SCL or SBCL? 13:30:11 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:34 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.6] has joined #lisp 13:32:13 stassats: huh? i wouldn't send status about SCL to sbcl-devel. i built sbcl-1.0.39 with sbcl.0.9 or something and someone here (pkhuong?) wanted me to let the devs know that solaris/sparc still works.... 13:32:37 Does anyone even have the code for scl besides scieneer? 13:32:53 rread [~rread@c-24-130-52-79.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:56 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:34:06 i dont know. havent asked dtc about the source code, but he do seems open for anything really, provided you pay for it. :) 13:34:30 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:34:59 *Xach* was unable to offer money for fixing *default-pathname-defaults* glitch 13:36:37 hi Xach 13:37:01 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zkcjxfCurA more lisp porn!! 13:37:09 Xach: i'm sure he'll be happy to receive a bug report tho. 13:37:21 Xach: What glitch was that? 13:37:54 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 13:38:30 udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-ijqllbrkgyjehzvo] has joined #lisp 13:38:53 rtoym: the cmucl one you fixed. 13:39:04 carlocci [~nes@93.37.220.141] has joined #lisp 13:39:07 hypno: I sent him a bug report. He said he might not change it becasue of how URL pathnames work. 13:39:15 Ah, ok. 13:39:18 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:39:41 Xach: oh, ouch. 13:41:01 jajcloz [~jaj@2002:4855:eb9a:0:219:e3ff:fe02:96b8] has joined #lisp 13:42:25 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.164.71] has joined #lisp 13:43:06 Does that mean no support for scl in quicklisp? 13:44:22 -!- qebab [finnrobi@apollo.orakel.ntnu.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:44:48 qebab [finnrobi@apollo.orakel.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 13:49:43 jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:45 rtoym: i did some rewrites and that part disappeared naturally, so SCL shouldn't be a problem. 13:51:34 rtoym: I'd like to know how much community-developed software ever gets tried or tested on SCL. 13:52:04 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 13:52:31 Are you asking me in particular or just saying you want to know? 13:52:36 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:52:38 i doubt much is beeing tryied. scl do not seem to be very popular. 13:52:40 Just saying. 13:52:52 is there anyone here, besides myself, that actually use it? 13:53:00 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:53:02 It's hard to be popular when it used to cost 10k (?) to get it. 13:53:06 hypno: I don't know of any. 13:53:11 i only tested on it 13:53:28 Alone I stand strong, I guess. Or not. 13:53:45 rtoym: there was a game for Apple II where you sold lemonade, and you had to work out the right price where people would buy it. i always liked the strategy of charging $500 for one cup, because hey, "you only need one buyer at that price!" 13:54:18 rtoym: yeah, but that was like 2 years ago or somesuch. 13:54:48 I've wanted to try it, but never really did. But dtc was nice enough to give me a trial license long ago when it used to cost 10k. Don't think I really did much. 13:55:18 Hmm, no releases for two years ... 13:55:25 He's not dead or something he he? 13:55:27 i guess the main reason is that for non-obscure platforms the free stuff is good enough and there's little benefit from it. On sparc tho, it's great. 13:55:51 hypno: I guess I was implying that window of opportunity is long gone. He should have made it available earlier on. But maybe things were better then for him. 13:55:56 s/he/is/ gah 13:56:02 Zhivago: No. I talked to dtc on email this week. there will be new patch upgrades. 13:56:58 rtoym: yeah. had it been a hundred bucks or two from day one it would probably be much more popular. 13:57:15 hypno: Yep. 13:57:26 a hundred? no one would take it seriously 13:57:35 i have hopes about using it for oracle stuff tho. would be fun to support it, and the 300 dollars (or whatever) is peanuts in that context. 13:59:54 -!- Davse_Bamse [~davse@82.103.143.161] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:00:05 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-227-152.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:00:12 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@rrcs-97-77-55-50.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:01:22 solid threads on stuff like solaris/sparc are just cool features that someone, somewhere will occasionally buy scl (plus support!) for, I guess 14:02:02 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@213.235.232.110] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:02:30 zomgbie [~jesus@213.235.232.110] has joined #lisp 14:03:14 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-164-64.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:03:44 and Itanium! 14:03:47 (though not natively) 14:04:13 yupp. the webserver is actually also great, but i guess you need one heck of a site to really need it. very fast and reliable tho. and task queue api is pretty cool too. 14:05:37 hm. iolib's asd file doesn't play nice with the new asdf 14:06:10 dlowe: are you on HEAD? 14:06:11 dlowe: what's the problem ? 14:06:21 stassats: yes 14:07:03 fe[nl]ix: The value (MERGE-PATHNAMES #P"iolib/" *LOAD-TRUENAME*) is not of type (OR (VECTOR CHARACTER) (VECTOR NIL) BASE-STRING PATHNAME FILE-STREAM) 14:07:18 -!- zomgbie_ [~jesus@213.235.232.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:07:32 missing a #. for ASDF2 14:07:33 dlowe: then you're not using ASDF2 14:07:42 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.112.179.214] has joined #lisp 14:07:48 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@213.235.232.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:07:58 oh, haha. nvm. 14:08:03 the .asd contains #-asdf2 (MERGE-PATHNAMES #P"iolib/" *LOAD-TRUENAME*) #+asdf2 "iolib/" 14:08:22 I built and installed sbcl head on this system, but didn't remove the packaged one 14:08:38 ah, ok 14:09:08 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:12:57 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-64-200-182.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:13:59 cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has joined #lisp 14:14:42 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 14:15:36 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsleg148.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:16:43 has anybody tried clonsigna ? 14:17:45 btbngr [~btbgnr@smorge2.force9.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:19:29 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 14:21:15 kiuma: you should announce it on comp.lang.lisp and clonsigna-announce 14:21:48 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:21:50 rme [~rme@pool-68-238-7-51.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:22:19 aahhhh 14:22:20 ok 14:22:54 I'll do this evening or tomorrow morning, fe[nl]ix thanks for the tip 14:26:22 tayloj [~tayloj@clip-point-10.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 14:30:08 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 14:30:32 Hi everone! 14:33:08 Is Peter Herth here, or ever here? 14:34:04 lat: I don't think so. 14:34:23 zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.97.24] has joined #lisp 14:34:41 zomgbie_ [~jesus@188.45.97.24] has joined #lisp 14:35:01 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@rrcs-97-77-55-50.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:39:57 -!- gz [Clozure@clozure-93943513.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout] 14:40:09 -!- zomgbie_ [~jesus@188.45.97.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:40:38 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.97.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:40:44 Ugh. 78 minutes for a cross-compile of cmucl on my sparc. 14:41:11 And the result doesn't work. 14:41:29 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:42:52 Guest11509 [~user@xdsl-78-34-200-233.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:45:17 -!- blandest` [~user@85.204.33.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:46:57 -!- gnooth [~peter@ip98-176-79-151.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:48:30 xan_ [~xan@p54BFE616.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:48:49 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has left #lisp 14:49:15 none` [~user@xdsl-78-34-236-118.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:49:45 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 14:50:33 -!- none` [~user@xdsl-78-34-236-118.netcologne.de] has left #lisp 14:50:42 -!- Guest11509 [~user@xdsl-78-34-200-233.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:51:04 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:51:09 gnooth [~peter@ip98-176-79-151.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:54:50 gz [~gz@2002:4855:eb9a:0:21e:c2ff:fe0f:2d89] has joined #lisp 14:54:51 gz_ [~gz@2002:4855:eb9a:0:21e:c2ff:fe0f:2d89] has joined #lisp 14:56:43 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 14:57:32 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.152.1] has joined #lisp 14:57:34 Xach, ok. Thanks. By the way, I've been playing with your string-bounding-box function, and I think it is going to do what I need it to do. 14:57:51 zomgbie [~jesus@mk092248091159.a1.net] has joined #lisp 14:57:57 zomgbie_ [~jesus@mk092248091159.a1.net] has joined #lisp 14:59:12 Anyone used clsql here? 14:59:39 -!- gz_ [~gz@2002:4855:eb9a:0:21e:c2ff:fe0f:2d89] has left #lisp 14:59:43 amaron: yeah 14:59:50 amaron: If you have a question to ask, just ask it! 15:00:06 HG` [~HG@xdsleg148.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:00:21 What is the best practice for many-to-many relations? 15:00:57 Should I create view class for relation table as well? 15:01:17 lat: glad to hear it 15:01:57 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-236-118.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:01:58 homie [~user@xdsl-78-34-236-118.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:02:26 amaron: i tend to do so, i do almost all my inserts/updates through the objects 15:03:47 amaron: but i also don't particularly use the objects as related to eachother, just as a one instance per one tuple in the DB and that's where things are related 15:04:12 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:04:21 -!- [mzm] [~ziggy@92.98.161.154] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:04:41 UnwashedMeme: I see, thanks. 15:06:56 amaron: which RDBMS are you using clsql with? 15:07:40 lichtblau: postgresql 15:08:04 -!- bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:08:56 I just wander how powerful :db-info can be, can I specify secondary table used in join, can I create backreferences, etc. I see nothing like that. 15:09:10 amaron: ok. hu.dwim.perec is quite good on PostgreSQL and significantly more advanced than clsql's view classes. Perhaps you'd like to check it out sometime. 15:09:19 has built-in many-to-many relations, too. 15:09:44 lichtblau: Thanks, but I'm stuck with clsql with this project. 15:09:57 lichtblau: the clbuild repo is @ git://common-lisp.net/users/sionescu/clbuild.git 15:10:18 amaron: no, view-classes have some basic join logic, but it is not trying to be very complex 15:10:29 mattrepl [~mattrepl@129.174.97.34] has joined #lisp 15:11:20 UnwashedMeme: ok, so I'll solve my queries with sql reader syntax called from custom methods. 15:12:24 I wandered if I can combine :db-info join conditions with custom added expressions from some query, but never mind. 15:12:43 It doesn't have to be soficticated. 15:12:56 *sofisticated 15:13:03 ph 15:13:54 -!- chiiph [~quassel@gentoo/developer/chiiph] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:13:54 -!- Xof [~crhodes@158.223.51.79] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:13:54 -!- mal__ [~mal@www2.wimmekes.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:13:54 -!- bougyman [bougyman@pdpc/supporter/gold/bougyman] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:13:58 mal__ [~mal@www2.wimmekes.net] has joined #lisp 15:13:58 bougyman [bougyman@bougyman.com] has joined #lisp 15:14:09 chiiph [~chiiph@dumbledore.com.ar] has joined #lisp 15:14:09 -!- chiiph [~chiiph@dumbledore.com.ar] has quit [Changing host] 15:14:09 chiiph [~chiiph@gentoo/developer/chiiph] has joined #lisp 15:14:15 Xof [~crhodes@dunstaple.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:14:38 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:15:07 but writing several methods with quieries with 6 or 7 join conditions on them looks like boring job. 15:16:31 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:16:37 -!- lusory [~bart@bb119-74-156-187.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:16:51 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 15:17:34 I would like to build dynamic web pages with CL and I've looked at Weblocks and Symbolicweb... 15:18:11 e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 15:19:32 fatblueduck: then you are on your way. Hunchentoot is usually where the path of CL webhacking begins. 15:19:41 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 15:20:05 lusory [~bart@bb219-74-123-108.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 15:20:17 hypno: ok thank you 15:20:39 -!- carrl [~carl@61-64-164-206-adsl-tai.STATIC.so-net.net.tw] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:21:06 since i haven't used either of them i guess i'll just need to jump in 15:21:30 carrl [~carl@61-64-164-206-adsl-tai.STATIC.so-net.net.tw] has joined #lisp 15:21:37 i was just wondering if anyone had any comments in regards to one or the other 15:22:52 -!- zomgbie_ [~jesus@mk092248091159.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:23:08 and i was wondering if hunchentoot handles heavy traffic loads well 15:23:14 fatblueduck: i think the current trend is not to use a complete framework, but rather start with hunchentoot and then pull in other libs as needed. 15:23:29 hypno: ah ok 15:23:29 postmodern may for example come in handy. CL-WHO too. 15:23:48 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@mk092248091159.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:24:12 zomgbie [~jesus@mk092248091159.a1.net] has joined #lisp 15:24:19 fatblueduck: before you start with hunch tho, i would really recommend you to read the documentation throughly before you start hacking away. it will save you a lot of time later on. 15:25:18 Fare: do you why some systems .fasl are saved in the same folders and others saved to ~/.cache? My configure is like http://paste.pocoo.org/show/DO7nnRLIRNAR1fZkIBWy 15:26:25 Davse_Bamse [~davse@82.103.143.161] has joined #lisp 15:26:51 hypno: ok ill do that 15:28:19 *Xach* fails to get symbolicweb built 15:29:04 -!- wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-236-118.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:29:06 *fatblueduck* looks the other way 15:29:39 fatblueduck: as for heavy traffic loads - well, that certainly depends. i've had bad experiences with lisp webservers and stresstesting, but you would normally put it behind apache2 or nginx so they take the fronthit anyway. 15:30:04 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:30:36 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:31:16 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:31:31 wbooze [~user@xdsl-78-34-236-118.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:32:06 yeah that was what made me curious. i noticed on cll that xach seems to use nginx 15:32:06 -!- BrianRice [~water@c-76-115-44-87.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:32:13 and that made me wonder about it 15:32:33 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@mk092248091159.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:32:40 BrianRice [~water@c-76-115-44-87.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:33:23 well, it is also a question of beeing pragmatic. Apache2 has so much stuff ready to go that it is pointless to add similiar stuff to a stand alone lisp webserver. 15:33:48 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 15:34:05 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Client Quit] 15:34:22 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:35:54 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@129.174.97.34] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 15:36:44 jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-12.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:37:25 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.164.71] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:38:01 *Xach* uses plain old tbnl for most of his stuff 15:38:14 Plus Apache2 is about as battle-hardened as any software can possibly get 15:38:45 Just like sendmail! 15:39:32 please don't make me look at the config file... please! 15:40:40 Heh. Not only because of its longevity. 15:41:45 On the other hand, there's also value in occupying a smaller ecological niche, just because you'll be less vulnerable to automated attack 15:42:59 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-49-76.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: G'bye] 15:44:44 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-49-76.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:30 dabd [~dabd@gtkdbio.inesc-id.pt] has joined #lisp 15:45:49 Taggnostr2 [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 15:45:52 -!- Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:46:20 -!- angie [~angie@unaffiliated/angie] has left #lisp 15:47:11 -!- dabd [~dabd@gtkdbio.inesc-id.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:47:25 dabd [~dabd@gtkdbio.inesc-id.pt] has joined #lisp 15:47:46 bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 15:49:35 faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 15:49:41 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 15:50:46 let me make sure i've got this right. 15:50:59 i'm defining a function which ought to enforce strict type checking 15:51:05 using sbcl, and safety 3 15:51:28 i'm defining the function, (declare (type param)) for each incoming parameter, and then (check-type param (typeP)) ? 15:51:35 talk about verbatim overkill 15:51:55 You are misusing the word 'verbatim'. 15:52:05 verbose? 15:52:12 elaborate? 15:52:15 long winded? 15:52:24 Demosthenes: why do you both declare and check-type? 15:52:39 because technically i'm doing the type checking using check-type, and giving sbcl compiler hints with declare 15:52:57 You don't need to hint if you already check-type 15:52:58 apparently sbcl's behavior of enforcing strict types from a declare is nonstandard 15:53:03 Using declare means that the compiler doesn't need to check the type. 15:53:08 is that redundant? 15:53:16 on SBCL it is, at least. 15:53:27 Since you've already promised it what it is going to get. 15:53:27 we're overlappin ghere. 15:53:35 I thought other compilers didn't do the type-checking, though. 15:53:41 demos: What real problem are you trying to solve here? 15:53:57 i've been burned by not type checking arguments, confusion between incoming list and atoms 15:54:04 so i'm trying to be " 15:54:06 "strict" 15:54:12 and test everything incoming 15:54:20 So, why not use etypecase or something where appropriate? 15:54:22 i figure it ought to be a best practice anyway 15:54:28 No. This is a really stupid practice. 15:54:50 specifying the type of each parameter to a function, is stupid? 15:54:56 Yes. 15:55:13 unless you're trying to optimize it 15:55:15 AqD|Home [~aqd_home@122-116-21-207.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:55:15 i can see where you wouldn't want to force a type, but thats the exception, not the rule 15:55:16 -!- AqD|Home [~aqd_home@122-116-21-207.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:55:23 It's not normally the way you do things in CL. Mostly for performance. 15:55:48 roygbiv [~None@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has joined #lisp 15:55:57 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.147.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:56:20 Demos: If you care about this, why aren't you writing tests? 15:56:46 ie, unit tests? 15:56:51 Demos: Rather than injecting meaningless drivel into all of the code, everywhere? 15:57:08 Sure. Those should help you to find where you can't track your types properly. 15:57:31 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsleg148.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:57:56 *blink* unit testing the individual functions wouldn't help there 15:58:03 if i pass the wrong thing from the main program 15:58:11 thats what strict type checking is for 15:58:13 I guess you haven't heard of functional tests. 15:58:15 when you do want to be strict about what objects you use, use defmethod and multiple dispatch. it's a great framework to layer code for different objects. 15:58:39 hypno: yep, i'm sure there. but if i'm not using a class, i can't specify the type 15:58:44 If you want to do this kind of silliness then shadow defun, add separate type specifiers for your functions, and inject this code automatically, optionally. 15:58:51 You're always using classes. 15:59:02 Demosthenes: You're almost always using classes. 15:59:09 (class-of 10) 15:59:54 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 15:59:58 as i recall, i can't do defmethod against a pair of integer arguments. 16:00:04 You are wrong. 16:00:06 Demosthenes: you can. 16:00:17 Try (class-of 10) ... again. 16:00:18 provided that that's your generic function 16:00:25 (unless by pair, he means cons) 16:00:42 what bizarre terminology. 16:00:53 class-of doesn't tell anything meaningless, besides implementation details 16:01:00 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.10] 16:01:03 AqD|Home [~AqD|Home@122-116-21-207.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 16:01:04 s/meaningless/meaningful/ 16:01:05 *ponder* maybe thats where i went wrong ,the first example i used didn't take. so i went back to where i'd seen declare 16:01:30 Demosthenes: do you mean two numbers, or a cons of int,int? 16:02:16 Demosthenes: just use check-type.. why obsess about declarations? SBCL's compiler should be able to take check-type into account in its type inference 16:02:51 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:02:57 and, on other platforms, the declares are likely to result in the check-type being elided away. 16:03:04 -!- AqD|Home [~AqD|Home@122-116-21-207.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:03:06 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-kjvmaoigejblxlsf] has left #lisp 16:04:07 adeht: i originally thought declare was universal, i found out the behavior was sbcl specific yesterday 16:04:57 sbcl and cmucl specific. 16:05:11 varjagg [~eugene@84.118.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 16:05:34 though i'm likely to continue using sbcl, i'm trying to stay generic 16:05:39 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:05:49 rtoym: Python-specific, then? 16:05:52 and i couldn't find where (check-type ...) implied declare, or vice versa 16:05:56 -!- rplacd [~rplacd@ppp-124-120-124-225.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:05:59 -!- xristos [~x@2001:470:8859:cafe:20c:29ff:fec5:e30a] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:06:08 Demosthenes: neither implies the other 16:06:17 sykopomp: Yeah, I guess that is better. 16:06:20 Stattrav_ [~Stattrav@117.192.135.127] has joined #lisp 16:06:23 which is why the first question, i have to use both and its verbose ;] 16:06:26 declare is universally accepted, it just doesn't have to do anything. :) 16:06:59 rtoym: well, I was asking, I didn't know if that other cmucl derivative (the commercial one) did this, too. 16:07:15 the name escapes me. 16:07:26 Demosthenes: a compiler can however assume things about the value after it's type-checked (the type specifier is given at compile-time) 16:07:29 sykopomp: I'm pretty scl does the same, but I've haven't used scl. 16:07:43 Demos: Learn how to use macros. 16:08:01 yeah, no kidding. 16:08:01 Demos: They will make doing stupid things like that easier. 16:08:12 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.152.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:08:38 Zhivago: really macroing it isn't the issue. its were both required? it appears they would be, or i just stick to type check or defmethod 16:08:45 i think defmethod's the easiest 16:08:51 Demosthenes: you shouldn't need to use both, dude 16:08:53 demos: If it does what you want, then by all means. 16:09:01 AqD|Home [~AqD|Home@122-116-21-207.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 16:09:12 Demosthenes: it's been repeatedly asserted that you just need check-type 16:09:45 haha, boolean type is allowed for slot definitions but not in defmethod :P 16:10:03 -!- AqD|Home [~AqD|Home@122-116-21-207.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has left #lisp 16:10:14 Demosthenes: that's because there is no boolean class 16:10:16 AqD|Home [~AqD|Home@122-116-21-207.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 16:10:37 clhs boolean 16:10:37 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/t_ban.htm 16:10:42 yep, type != class 16:11:09 Well, there is (eql nil) 16:11:13 boolean is simple (member t nil) 16:11:19 *simply 16:11:27 -!- AqD|Home [~AqD|Home@122-116-21-207.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has left #lisp 16:11:37 -!- benny [~user@i577A8785.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:11:43 Well, usually you deal with generalized booleans, which is nil or anything else. 16:12:10 benny [~user@i577A82A9.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:12:12 pjb` [~t@106.Red-88-31-203.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:39 Dawgmatix [~dman@cpe-66-65-27-205.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:13:52 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 16:16:17 -!- Stattrav_ is now known as Stattrav 16:17:03 Dawgmatix_ [~dman@cpe-66-65-27-205.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:17:13 what was the varible/function to change GC threshold in SBCL? 16:20:53 (setf bytes-consed-between-gcs) 16:21:37 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:23:27 Adlai```` [~adlai@89-139-53-214.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 16:23:40 -!- Adlai```` is now known as Adlai 16:23:48 -!- Adlai [~adlai@89-139-53-214.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Changing host] 16:23:48 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 16:24:56 haphazardhouse [~haphazard@pool-71-184-179-14.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:25:25 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754e60.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:07 -!- pjb` [~t@106.Red-88-31-203.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:30:12 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:32:18 nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-129-229.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 16:34:55 Hello all. 16:35:13 zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.67.136] has joined #lisp 16:35:37 it seems the debian/ubuntu packages for bordeaux-threads are 2 years and 6 releases out of date 16:35:53 -!- Anarch [~olaf@c-67-171-37-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:36:29 any other portable thread libraries i can use (without installing them myself)? 16:36:45 aaf 16:36:48 andreer: how can you use something without installing it? 16:36:56 -!- xan_ [~xan@p54BFE616.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:37:29 Anarch [~olaf@c-67-171-37-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:37:33 [here goes a message about not using debian lisp packages] 16:37:44 afaik, BT is /the/ lib for it. and for the most part, you need to use clbuild or some other system to keep current. 16:38:12 thanks. I'll get it myself for now 16:39:18 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:39:18 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:40:28 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.67.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:41:33 zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.67.136] has joined #lisp 16:43:16 xristos [~x@2001:470:8859:cafe:20c:29ff:fec5:e30a] has joined #lisp 16:45:42 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:46:19 nyef: Do you know why undefined_tramp doesn't return on x86, but on sparc, the undefined_tramp appears to be to return? 16:46:44 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754e60.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:46:46 -!- gnooth [~peter@ip98-176-79-151.sd.sd.cox.net] has left #lisp 16:47:36 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754e60.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:48:50 *rtoym* starts up yet another slow cmucl sparc build.... 16:49:45 rtoym: The trampoline, or the trap encoded within? 16:49:52 -!- haphazardhouse [~haphazard@pool-71-184-179-14.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:50:42 haphazardhouse [~haphazard@pool-71-184-179-14.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:51:02 rtoym: Typically, the trampoline can't return, but the trap theoretically -can- (though there's no support for such lisp-side). If the trap -does- return, it is assumed that the function has been redefined. 16:51:18 Oh, wait. Never mind. the x86 undefined_tramp has a return too. 16:52:06 I don't know about CMUCL, but SBCL doesn't have support for actually taking advantage of such "continuable" error traps. 16:52:59 -!- Taggnostr2 [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Quit: When nothing is planned, nothing can go wrong!] 16:53:46 -!- haphazardhouse [~haphazard@pool-71-184-179-14.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:54:34 Yeah, I think you're right. 16:56:05 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-222-144.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 16:56:07 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.135.127] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:56:54 I've actually implemented support for "continuable" error traps in SBCL -twice-. One was for undefined functions, and the other was for unbound variables. 16:57:52 But it was always a bit of a hack, and only for x86oids, so I never tried to get it checked in. 16:59:07 tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.181] has joined #lisp 16:59:16 This does clear some things up for me though. The current sparc undefined_tramp uses a cerror code, but undefined-symbol-error never returns, so if I implemented it as an assembly routine, I don't have to deal with that. 16:59:37 AqD|Home [~AqD|Home@122-116-21-207.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 16:59:40 -!- austinh [~austinh@c-24-21-81-46.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:02:23 *nyef* reflects on how much the situation has changed over the past about eight years. 17:02:44 Jabberwockey [~Jens@port-93245.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 17:03:55 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@195.49.201.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:03:59 grouzen [~grouzen@195.49.201.58] has joined #lisp 17:04:50 -!- AqD|Home [~AqD|Home@122-116-21-207.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: AqD|Home] 17:06:00 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 17:06:13 AqD|Home [~AqD|Home@122-116-21-207.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 17:06:27 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-222-144.vodafone.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:06:34 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-78-13-247-126.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 17:07:30 -!- AqD|Home [~AqD|Home@122-116-21-207.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:07:36 AqD|Home [~AqD|Home@122-116-21-207.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 17:07:58 -!- AqD|Home [~AqD|Home@122-116-21-207.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:08:48 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@195.49.201.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:08:49 AqD|Home [~AqD|Home@122-116-21-207.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:02 -!- AqD|Home [~AqD|Home@122-116-21-207.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:09:07 grouzen [~grouzen@195.49.201.58] has joined #lisp 17:09:13 manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:43 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.135.127] has joined #lisp 17:10:48 AqD|Home [~AqD|Home@122-116-21-207.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 17:11:56 -!- AqD|Home [~AqD|Home@122-116-21-207.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:12:01 AqD|Home [~AqD|Home@122-116-21-207.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 17:12:08 -!- dabd [~dabd@gtkdbio.inesc-id.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:13:56 haphazardhouse [~haphazard@pool-71-184-179-14.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:28 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 17:14:56 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest65571 17:16:29 dialtone [~dialtone@70.36.244.244] has joined #lisp 17:16:29 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@70.36.244.244] has quit [Changing host] 17:16:29 dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 17:17:29 Things are much rosier. 17:20:45 astalla [~astalla@93-36-226-105.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 17:21:48 gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.230.97] has joined #lisp 17:22:26 -!- haphazardhouse [~haphazard@pool-71-184-179-14.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 17:23:17 Yeah, but I was more thinking that rtoym helped me with optimizing my first major lisp program, and now I'm helping him with implementation hacking. 17:23:46 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:24:54 wow. Just realized I've been doing CL for eight years too. 17:25:04 -!- gz [~gz@2002:4855:eb9a:0:21e:c2ff:fe0f:2d89] has left #lisp 17:26:18 Hey nyef, still haven't forgotten me right? 17:26:25 newbie! 17:26:30 *rtoym* doesn't get that much hacking time. 17:27:23 moah [~gnu@dslb-092-073-064-174.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:27:41 Avisch: Indeed not. 17:28:06 Although I still don't have a win32 build machine, so I'm not going to be able to do much more than advise. 17:28:29 Umm... While I'm thinking of it, you -did- cover the possibility of having stale fasls, didn't you? 17:29:16 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-78-13-247-126.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:30:50 -!- udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-ijqllbrkgyjehzvo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:32:18 I have tried that. But just to be sure. Since I'm only trying to compile asdf.lisp. I only need to worry about .fasl in the asdf folder right? 17:32:29 -!- Guest65571 [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 17:33:45 Not sure. 17:35:26 It -looks- like that's the only one you have to worry about for ASDF. 17:35:35 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-197-65.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:57 shader [~user@66.162.9.208] has joined #lisp 17:38:52 let me try a few things. 17:41:26 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 17:41:53 ok I just deleted every single .fasl in my sbcl. I still got the same error. 17:42:10 -!- shader [~user@66.162.9.208] has left #lisp 17:43:09 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:44:47 And this is "set_pseudo_atomic_atomic: pseudo atomic bits is 1"? 17:46:36 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 17:47:10 Well it's funny. I can't get that error anymore. I'm not sure what I did different. But I get this: "GC invariant lost, file "gencgc.c", line 936" 17:48:00 Okay, you've got something weird going on with allocation, either way. 17:48:32 Do you get an LDB prompt, or does the process just go away? 17:48:57 I do get LDB prompt 17:48:59 -!- Dawgmatix_ [~dman@cpe-66-65-27-205.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:49:15 What happens if you ask it for a backtrace? 17:49:33 how do I do that exactly? I'm very new at this 17:50:19 Enter the word "back", sans quotes, at the prompt, and hit enter. 17:51:08 It says "Backtrace:" (sans quotes of course) and then gives me the ldb prompt again 17:51:43 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:51:48 Ah, damn. 17:52:05 Okay, try "con"? 17:52:09 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-77-73.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 17:52:14 The important information is the number of contexts. 17:53:37 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-15-76.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:54:49 ok here's what it gives me: http://pastebin.ca/1901183 17:55:34 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 17:56:52 Hrm. Okay, that's from an assembly-routine, clearly. 17:57:23 So either via a trap or allocation. 17:57:40 And given that the failed GC assert is in the allocation overflow path... 17:58:17 -!- AqD|Home [~AqD|Home@122-116-21-207.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: AqD|Home] 17:58:40 just a minute 17:59:25 ok. I'm back 17:59:29 Continue 17:59:56 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 18:00:42 zomgbie_ [~jesus@188.45.67.136] has joined #lisp 18:00:52 silenius [~silenius@c-24-130-172-194.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:00:53 Hrm. Actually, scratch that, it's either in an alloc_with_region, or it's doing a GC. 18:01:50 ... And the alloc_with_region is on the overflow path. Right. 18:03:30 hmm. Either google or my ISP is acting up today. (Or ISP DNS) 18:04:49 AqD|Home [~AqD|Home@122-116-21-207.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 18:09:07 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:11:59 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@adsl-67-113-207-138.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 18:14:20 Avisch: Actually, I have -no- idea how that GC assert could fail. 18:15:36 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 18:15:42 -!- NIR[f] [~root@188.92.194.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:16:01 HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 18:18:19 bandu [kvirc@pool-71-164-242-252.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:18:31 ramus_ [~ramus@99.23.135.247] has joined #lisp 18:19:24 -!- bandu is now known as coyo 18:21:21 -!- ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-23-155-109.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:22:29 so this is where further analysis requires that you to have a win32 machine right? 18:22:32 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:28:23 balooga1 [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 18:28:35 -!- Lycurgus [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:30:08 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:31:29 This is where further analysis would require an environment where I could reproduce the problem, yes. 18:31:39 -!- balooga1 is now known as Balooga 18:31:55 hi Balooga! 18:32:13 And a demonstration that the problem was -introduced- at some point, so that I could proceed with a git bisection. 18:32:14 Hi Xach 18:34:14 lots of lispbuilder-sdl traffic over the past few days it seems. 18:34:22 traffic/talk 18:34:31 rtra [~rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #lisp 18:35:14 there should be a better use for this: http://bostonlisp.org 18:35:28 i just wish i knew what that was 18:35:37 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@adsl-67-113-207-138.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: galaxywatcher] 18:35:58 that's not bad 18:36:03 jpanest: a speech impediments support group 18:36:11 daniel [~daniel@p5082D6DC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:37:20 Xach: i wish someone updated this, i guess: http://common-lisp.net/project/boston-lisp/ 18:37:50 jpanest: that would be nice also 18:38:13 *Xach* wonders who last maintained it 18:38:28 nyef: alright then. So I will just hand around until we can proceed. 18:38:57 -!- daniel_ [~daniel@p5082E4AA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:39:46 Xach: who has permission to update it? 18:40:01 NIR[f] [~root@188.92.195.64] has joined #lisp 18:40:06 Xach: or how does one go about getting that? 18:40:18 even if it just reflected Fare's posts 18:41:02 jpanest: I don't know. A common-lisp.net admin could probably answer that question. 18:44:01 balooga1 [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 18:46:26 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:47:15 -!- Balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:47:23 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-78-13-247-126.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 18:48:06 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 18:50:58 cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 18:52:26 -!- ramus_ [~ramus@99.23.135.247] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 18:52:33 dr_maligno [~dr_malign@176.Red-88-18-231.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:42 ramus [~ramus@99.23.135.247] has joined #lisp 18:54:29 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:56:43 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:56:58 haphazardhouse [~haphazard@pool-71-184-179-14.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:30 hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-113-158.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 18:58:43 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 19:00:01 francogrex [~user@109.130.24.44] has joined #lisp 19:00:41 Hi, is there any intention to move the comp.lang.lisp usenet group to another moderated forum? 19:01:07 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:01:19 what makes you think this is the right place to ask? 19:01:28 -!- HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:01:45 francogrex: No. 19:02:49 because someone from here might have started that group at some point 19:03:38 Why should it be moved? 19:04:09 well, I won't get into a lot of details; the answer was No 19:04:33 francogrex: that group started almost 30 years ago. 19:04:43 jesus! 19:04:44 only rtoym is old enough to have started it, and it wasn't him! 19:05:07 *stassats* ponders what horrors await him when setting sb-sys:sap-ref-32 to one byte value when only one byte left allocated by that address 19:05:19 30 years ago, I didn't know what lisp was. 19:05:20 francogrex: Not sure I get your reason why it should be moved. 19:06:10 is memory allocation word-aligned? 19:06:15 Ok. the closure tramp moved to an assembly routine. Seems to work, but now primitive halt called. Now what? 19:06:19 TDT: I saw a lot of messages complaining about significantly high # of spam. I love that newsgroup, it's where I first started kearning about cl 19:06:38 <_3b`> there is lispforum.com if you just want somewhere non-usenet to talk about lisp, and don't care if it has the same people 19:07:28 _3b`: that's good 19:08:51 francogrex: Yeah, I use eternal september for that reason 19:09:02 all I care for is that it has people with experience 19:09:18 francogrex: I think the people who would have to move for the group to be considered moved are already able to avoid the spam. 19:10:09 *_3b`* seems to remember having seen some familiar names on lispforum, don't really know what level of experience it has though 19:10:46 Joreji [~thomas@86-129.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 19:11:01 *_3b`* doesn't really use usenet or forums that much 19:11:34 jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.37.22] has joined #lisp 19:12:31 konr` [~user@201.82.129.247] has joined #lisp 19:13:13 <_3b`> there also seems to be active lisp users on stackoverflow 19:13:30 hjpark [~user@116.40.135.21] has joined #lisp 19:14:18 stassats: in C or in sbcl? 19:14:30 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 19:14:34 pkhuong: in SBCL, though i allocate with malloc 19:14:48 coyo|pingout [kvirc@pool-71-164-242-252.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:14:49 perhaps that makes it "in C" 19:15:29 Some mallocs will allocate exactly the right size for small requests (e.g. google's tcmalloc) 19:16:06 alright, to play it safe i will use the right sap-ref 19:16:08 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 19:16:16 malloc will always be aligned to the largest primitive type, long long, long double, or what not though. 19:16:58 btbngr: the requirement is tighter than that, actually. For instance, it's supposed to align correctly for SSE operations even though there might not be 128 bit data types. 19:17:30 But I'm not sure if that applies to smaller requests, and even if it does, that's not what actually happens. 19:17:30 oh really? so it really is the largest component the cpu can read? that's quite handy 19:17:35 -!- coyo [kvirc@pool-71-164-242-252.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:17:56 btbngr: it's the largest alignment that'll be needed for correct operation. 19:17:59 hehe, yes, the annoyances of real implementation :) 19:18:56 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:19:52 *stassats* goes to "Advanced Programming in the UNIX" 19:19:58 to write programs in lisp, oh well 19:20:11 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 19:21:00 _3b`: from your newgroup: "Most professional CL coders belong to the "old guard". They are occasionally seen on comp.lang.lisp or irc. More frequently seen at live user-group meetings. Many have tired and no longer answer noobish questions" :) 19:21:14 -!- konr` [~user@201.82.129.247] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:21:58 -!- konr [~user@201.82.129.247] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:22:54 konr [~user@201.82.129.247] has joined #lisp 19:25:53 let a symbol TEST that references a function; if I bind (FUNCTION TEST) to a variable somewhere, then modify the function TEST, does the variable still reference the old implementation of the function ? 19:26:37 my guess would be no 19:26:43 galdor: Did you try it? 19:27:03 no 19:27:11 let me guess, I should just try ? :p 19:27:21 Yes. 19:27:25 fair enough 19:27:34 though it depends... if you bind something to the symbol-function of TEST, and then setf the symbol-function of TEST to something else, then the variable should still have the old implementation 19:27:45 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.67.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:28:06 the variable will still reference the old implementation 19:28:40 dlowe: thank you, my test confirms what you told 19:28:40 cause I know you can, e.g., (let ((old-fun (symbol-function TEST))) (setf (symbol-function TEST) (lambda () ) (setf (symbol-function TEST) old-fun) 19:28:55 -!- zomgbie_ [~jesus@188.45.67.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:28:59 so for a dispatch table, I have to store the symbols, not the functions themselves 19:29:22 bfein: in that case, (funcall 'TEST) will work, but (funcall #'TEST) will not 19:29:30 sometimes lisp frightens me, there' 19:29:36 s so much things to learn :) 19:29:51 what will funcall #'TEST do in that case such that it "doesn't work"? 19:30:11 bfein: your clever redirection won't do anything 19:31:27 I thought I had some hacky thing at some point that replaced the symbol-function of something with (lambda (&rest args) ( (apply #'test args))) 19:31:31 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:31:34 maybe I was using 'test though instead, I forget 19:31:56 (I didn't just wrap the calls themselves cause it was used all over the place) 19:32:35 -!- Tanami [~rlynow@150.101.97.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:33:18 Tanami [~rlynow@150.101.97.171] has joined #lisp 19:34:52 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:35:48 -!- bytecolor [~user@adsl-71-137-195-53.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:36:23 -!- sykopomp [~user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:36:43 sykopomp [~sykopomp@c-66-41-249-30.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:27 jpanest: drewc is the person with authority to make changes to common-lisp.net 19:38:09 jpanest: I was going to update the design for common-lisp.net and my communication with drewc unfortunately did not work out 19:38:18 -!- vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:39:26 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@c-66-41-249-30.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:39:26 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 19:40:32 fatblueduck: That's not true. 19:40:49 Xach: what is true? 19:41:02 Xach: i was very annoyed about how that worked out 19:41:03 fatblueduck: There are many different parts of common-lisp.net, and drewc is an administrator, but there are other administrators, and many people have authority over their own section of the site. 19:41:19 oh ok 19:41:20 vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has joined #lisp 19:42:18 -!- rlonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:42:56 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.89.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:43:30 rlonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:58 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.89.150] has joined #lisp 19:46:03 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.24.44] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:46:41 -!- dr_maligno [~dr_malign@176.Red-88-18-231.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:46:45 fatblueduck: hmm. now i'm curious. do you have your design online? 19:46:57 hypno: yes 19:47:24 though it is mid-way through a change that is incomplete, but it is there 19:49:28 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-78-13-247-126.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:50:11 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.89.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:50:28 ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@87.115.9.111] has joined #lisp 19:51:25 let 19:51:30 ..let's see it! 19:51:33 -!- hdurer [~holly@pdpc/supporter/active/hdurer] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:52:55 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.181] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 19:53:37 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.112.179.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:54:21 http://www.bumblehead.com/cl_demo/cl_jquery.html 19:55:14 mstevens [~mstevens@cl-807.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 19:55:14 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@cl-807.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:55:14 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 19:55:45 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:56:28 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.89.150] has joined #lisp 19:57:00 -!- haphazardhouse [~haphazard@pool-71-184-179-14.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: haphazardhouse] 19:57:19 *Xach* will wait until it's complete 19:57:37 it will not be complete 19:58:06 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 19:58:17 *Xach* stops waiting 19:58:59 -!- marvel [~user@unaffiliated/marvel] has left #lisp 19:59:08 marvel [~user@unaffiliated/marvel] has joined #lisp 19:59:40 fatblueduck: I really like your design 20:00:23 galdor: thank you 20:01:10 I would prefer that 'features' and 'recent project' be moved to their own pages entirely 20:01:55 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-67-242-195-25.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:02:29 I don't know; I like the recent projet stuff like on http://haskell.org, it makes the site more dynamic 20:02:58 fatblueduck: nice design; something seems off with the colors though i cannot offer more coherent thought than that right now 20:04:01 fatblueduck: the bright blue link color is painful, particularly in close proximity to the peasoup green stripes, and you need a couple pixels of vertical padding to declutter the links in the features list 20:04:13 (anyway it looks perfect on emacs-w3m, that's definitely a plus for me :)) 20:04:46 you're right about that 20:06:10 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-187-0.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 20:06:15 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:06:16 I'd use a lighter shade of gray for the alternating background color in the lists, too. 20:06:34 Ill write this stuff down 20:07:13 im at work right now so I dont want to get into changing it atm 20:07:41 <_3b`> if you are taking suggestions, i'd say fix the position of the nav links, having them scroll a bit then stop is odd 20:09:11 i like http://www.pyglet.org 20:09:31 it may not be resonable to hope for something so simple... 20:10:51 fatblueduck: you mean the library? 20:11:02 or the site? 20:11:07 the site of course 20:11:32 -!- hjpark [~user@116.40.135.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:11:34 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 20:11:59 -!- balooga1 is now known as Balooga 20:13:31 *lichtblau* is delighted to find that sbcl/win32 can be built on debian 20:13:32 Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-67-242-195-25.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:14:22 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:14:37 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-67-242-195-25.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:15:04 *hefner* is more curious as to whether the library is any good (pyglet, that is) 20:15:07 Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-67-242-195-25.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:15:17 dialtone [~dialtone@70.36.244.244] has joined #lisp 20:15:17 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@70.36.244.244] has quit [Changing host] 20:15:17 dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 20:15:52 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 20:16:16 I used the library a few years ago 20:16:49 im not a great programmer and it has been a while 20:17:05 the only thing i can say with authority is that the community is great 20:17:14 and the documentation is great 20:17:33 does lisp have an IRC library? 20:17:50 minion: cl-irc? 20:18:05 fatblueduck: which community and documentation? 20:18:13 emacs, python, ruby? 20:18:32 emma: http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-irc/ 20:18:39 leo2007: pyglet's community 20:19:04 emma: cl-irc is pretty good, i use it myself 20:19:46 cool thanks. 20:20:09 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.89.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:20:42 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-12.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:20:59 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.89.150] has joined #lisp 20:21:24 fatblueduck: that makes sense. 20:22:21 Balooga: you don't happen to use a Mac, do you? 20:23:31 cl-irc is, indeed, quite nice. 20:24:02 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:24:55 -!- peterhil [peterhil@ZYKMMCMXXIII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:25:47 -!- jajcloz [~jaj@2002:4855:eb9a:0:219:e3ff:fe02:96b8] has quit [Quit: jajcloz] 20:27:42 emma: if cl-irc isn't good enough, please mail about it: even though it doesn't have a recent release, fixes do get committed. 20:28:46 does it support ssl ? 20:29:03 emma: les 20:29:06 emma: yes, even 20:30:34 pers [~user@18.sub-75-220-90.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 20:30:41 dlowe: oh i haven't found that yet. 20:30:55 emma: you have to get the latest from repository, though 20:31:24 ehu: you're the maintainer of cl-irc ? 20:31:45 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 20:34:07 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754e60.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:34:13 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:34:29 does anyone here happen to know how to change buffers in erc? 20:35:05 dlowe: you think the websvn has the ssl ? 20:35:24 -!- pers [~user@18.sub-75-220-90.myvzw.com] has left #lisp 20:35:36 fatblueduck: C-x b 20:35:38 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 20:36:06 oh its just an emacs buffer 20:36:10 dlowe: thanks 20:36:52 emma: uh, the subversion repo, yes 20:38:25 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-113-158.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: Arrrr!] 20:38:25 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:39:06 dlowe: that would be this right? -- http://common-lisp.net/websvn/listing.php?repname=cl-irc&path=%2F&sc=0 20:39:17 dlowe: im not seeing any reference to ssl yet 20:39:59 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-67-242-195-25.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Some days you are the pigeon, other days the statue.] 20:40:00 <_3b`> emma: http://common-lisp.net/websvn/listing.php?repname=cl-irc&path=%2Ftrunk%2F&rev=203&sc=1 ? 20:42:41 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-184-207-131.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:44:24 I think there's something I don't understand in macros: http://paste.lisp.org/display/112523 20:44:52 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@195.49.201.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:45:04 since the call to WITH-TEST is done in the :Y package, why doest FLET defines TEST in the :X package ? 20:45:18 <_3b`> galdor: i think it is READ you misunderstand 20:45:41 Does anyone else know if cl-irc supports ssl? 20:45:51 Maybe I'm just not seeing it there. If so I'm sorry for that. 20:46:09 <_3b`> emma: did you see the link to revision 203? 20:46:10 -!- Davse_Bamse [~davse@82.103.143.161] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:46:15 _3b`: well ok 20:46:46 <_3b`> galdor: the reader turns the string "test" into a symbol, using the package that is current at read time 20:47:10 ah the symbol is interned at read-time 20:47:20 _3b`: ahh, that means it's not in there then right? 20:47:41 <_3b`> emma: ? 20:47:47 -!- CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:48:06 emma: you pass in :security :ssl to the cl-irc:connect function 20:48:11 emma: and it will support ssl 20:48:18 er 20:48:25 :connection-security :ssl 20:48:40 the next logical question is then: how can I make a macro define local functions for the body of the macro, so that these functions are in the package of the caller of the macro 20:49:06 <_3b`> galdor: usually it is preferred to let the caller specify names for anything it should be able to see in &body code 20:49:26 NeverGone [~NeverGone@78-131-94-203.pool.hdsnet.hu] has joined #lisp 20:49:30 the practical case is a RPC system 20:49:42 -!- NeverGone [~NeverGone@78-131-94-203.pool.hdsnet.hu] has left #lisp 20:49:44 I have a macro that defines a function which handles a RPC 20:49:59 galdor: you call INTERN with a package parameter 20:50:12 and for the implementations of these functions, I'd like to offer convenient location functions 20:50:55 -!- moah [~gnu@dslb-092-073-064-174.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:50:55 <_3b`> if you are adding functions as part of the API of the macro, i'd say put them in the package of the macro, and export them from there 20:50:58 oh, so if I can get the current package at the moment when the macro call is evaluated, I can intern in it, right ? 20:51:36 _3b`: that's simple, you're right :) 20:52:28 thank you for your help 20:52:51 <_3b`> though be sure to consider whether you might ever want to be able to nest calls to that macro and be able to see the outer bindings from within the inner call 20:54:22 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@clip-point-10.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:54:43 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:54:55 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:55:10 seidos [~kevin@cpe-76-168-0-89.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:55:39 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.135.127] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:55:54 -!- NNshag [user@lns-bzn-32-82-254-30-23.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:56:00 cmm [~cmm@109.64.200.182] has joined #lisp 20:57:44 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:58:15 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-184-207-131.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:58:19 asarch [~asarch@189.188.200.233] has joined #lisp 21:00:44 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #lisp 21:01:10 dyCrazyEd [~CrazyEddy@210.8.79.105] has joined #lisp 21:04:59 -!- cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:05:00 -!- NIR[f] [~root@188.92.195.64] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:05:38 -!- dyCrazyEd [~CrazyEddy@210.8.79.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:05:45 _3b`: Thanks for the bug reports! 21:05:47 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@netblock-66-245-247-11.dslextreme.com] has joined #lisp 21:06:08 [and good evening everyone] 21:06:45 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.200.233] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:07:36 ziarkaen__ [~ziarkaen@87.112.183.252] has joined #lisp 21:07:47 <_3b`> beach: easier to just test it, than to write it /and/ test it, so thanks for doing the writing part :) 21:07:55 btbngr1 [~btbgnr@smorge2.force9.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:08:05 <_3b`> beach: particularly when i didn't write the tests either :p 21:08:17 NNshag [user@lns-bzn-21-82-64-107-212.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:08:55 -!- btbngr [~btbgnr@smorge2.force9.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:09:15 _3b`: That's the great attitude! 21:10:33 -!- ziarkaen_ [~ziarkaen@87.115.9.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:10:53 *_3b`* will probably need to get setf functions working properly, and load-time-value so i can EQ symbols before i can get much more out of the tests 21:11:04 frodonimus [~user@xdsl-87-78-128-230.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:11:46 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:12:18 Has anyone here ever worked with sqlite from lisp? 21:12:25 Hi, where are the logs of this channel? 21:12:58 minion: logs 21:13:39 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-171-35.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:13:44 <_3b`> http://www.cliki.net/IRC has links to logs 21:14:18 CrEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 21:14:55 Thank you -- I googled but for some crazy reason didn't click on the cliki.net link. 21:15:33 cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 21:15:59 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@netblock-66-245-247-11.dslextreme.com] has quit [Quit: galaxywatcher] 21:16:25 Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-67-242-195-25.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:16:38 -!- rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:16:58 -!- frodonimus [~user@xdsl-87-78-128-230.netcologne.de] has left #lisp 21:18:50 ejs [~eugen@94-248-48-176.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 21:19:11 tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-67-248-22-159.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:19:43 asarch [~asarch@189.188.200.233] has joined #lisp 21:19:44 badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 21:19:48 -!- ejs [~eugen@94-248-48-176.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has left #lisp 21:21:12 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:21:57 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:23:10 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:23:15 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-67-242-195-25.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Some days you are the pigeon, other days the statue.] 21:25:05 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.200.233] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:25:13 TR2N [email@89-180-146-175.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 21:26:32 Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-67-242-195-25.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:27:35 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:28:53 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-67-242-195-25.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:34:05 Nandi [~prashanth@97.67.122.114] has joined #lisp 21:34:36 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:34:55 -!- Nandi [~prashanth@97.67.122.114] has quit [Client Quit] 21:36:15 emma: It is usually more effective to just ask your question that to do what you just did. 21:36:59 -!- astalla [~astalla@93-36-226-105.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 21:38:48 -!- Joreji [~thomas@86-129.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:38:52 Joreji [~thomas@86-129.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 21:40:09 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.230.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:43:17 -!- Joreji [~thomas@86-129.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:45:30 -!- badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:51:32 Joreji [~thomas@86-129.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 21:52:32 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 21:55:46 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:58:11 -!- faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has left #lisp 22:01:18 lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has joined #lisp 22:01:31 Lycurgus [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:03:52 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.37.22] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:04:28 -!- joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:04:50 joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has joined #lisp 22:05:23 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.165.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:05:31 -!- xristos [~x@2001:470:8859:cafe:20c:29ff:fec5:e30a] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:05:36 -!- Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-qzmdbzcgloglmepn] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:06:12 -!- p8m [~dmm@mattlimech.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:06:14 Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-kgjxbttvuqkwhcjg] has joined #lisp 22:06:40 p8m [~dmm@mattlimech.com] has joined #lisp 22:06:59 -!- cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:07:45 -!- ziarkaen__ [~ziarkaen@87.112.183.252] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:09:31 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:09:55 beach: are you a keeper of alexandria? 22:10:03 -!- Joreji [~thomas@86-129.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:14:07 asarch [~asarch@189.188.200.233] has joined #lisp 22:14:32 marvel` [~user@150.101.97.171] has joined #lisp 22:14:45 -!- marvel [~user@unaffiliated/marvel] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:15:28 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.200.233] has quit [Client Quit] 22:15:45 -!- Tanami [~rlynow@150.101.97.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:16:31 fiveop [~fiveop@erft-4d07d53d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 22:17:20 cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 22:17:30 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:17:49 rayservers [~sp@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 22:19:43 Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-67-242-195-25.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:19:45 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:20:52 Tanami [~rlynow@150.101.97.171] has joined #lisp 22:20:52 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:21:48 -!- Komi [Komi@83.231.89.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:22:34 -!- marvel` [~user@150.101.97.171] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:23:33 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-67-242-195-25.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:24:10 Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-67-242-195-25.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:24:36 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@cpe-66-65-27-205.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:26:35 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:27:04 -!- Odin-` [~sbkhh@157.157.93.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:28:09 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 22:29:03 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-67-242-195-25.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Some days you are the pigeon, other days the statue.] 22:29:40 Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-67-242-195-25.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:32:01 -!- sellout [~greg@212.234.38.214] has quit [Quit: sellout] 22:32:06 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:32:31 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 22:32:40 -!- coyo|pingout [kvirc@pool-71-164-242-252.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: client closed in haste] 22:33:18 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-67-242-195-25.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:37:07 haphazardhouse [~haphazard@pool-71-184-179-14.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:28 Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-67-242-195-25.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:39:29 [sbahra] [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-49.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:39:33 -!- derekv [~derekv@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:40:40 hefner: No, sorry. I don't have a Mac. libSDL probpems? 22:41:02 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-223-208.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:42:47 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-187-0.vodafone.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:46:42 <_3b`> beach: (SUBLIS '((A . 1) (B . 2) (C . 3)) '((((A))) ((B)) (C)) :KEY #'CAR) tries to do (car a) 22:47:08 <_3b`> beach: same for nsublis 22:48:09 -!- [sbahra] is now known as Samy 22:48:10 -!- haphazardhouse [~haphazard@pool-71-184-179-14.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 22:49:05 <_3b`> beach: (SUBST 'NEW '(B) '(A ((B))) :TEST-NOT (COMPLEMENT #'EQUAL)) tries to funcall NIL 22:50:21 <_3b`> beach: and same for nsubst 22:53:16 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 22:53:22 -!- seidos [~kevin@cpe-76-168-0-89.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:53:52 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:54:59 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@erft-4d07d53d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 22:55:40 hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-113-158.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 22:59:52 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:59:52 -!- Samy [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-49.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:00:43 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:00:47 Samy [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-49.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:01:37 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:03:31 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031474.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:05:02 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!] 23:05:51 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 23:06:56 -!- Jabberwockey [~Jens@port-93245.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:07:51 abugosh [~Adium@pool-74-103-38-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:14:29 -!- Samy [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-49.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:15:16 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 23:15:17 Samy [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-49.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:21:19 beach: does SICL contain a complete CL reader yet? 23:22:05 what's SICL licensed under, anyway? 23:22:33 -!- varjagg [~eugene@84.118.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:24:11 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:25:23 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:26:26 ysph [~user@75-143-70-52.dhcp.aubn.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 23:26:54 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-74-103-38-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:27:10 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:27:43 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-67-248-22-159.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:29:30 -!- roygbiv [~None@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has left #lisp 23:30:47 -!- Samy [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-49.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:31:46 seidos [~kevin@cpe-76-168-0-89.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:31:47 Samy [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-49.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:35:04 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 23:37:44 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:38:52 Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:40:08 abugosh [~Adium@pool-74-103-38-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:45:42 -!- Samy [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-49.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:46:24 Samy [~sbahra@pool-74-106-252-49.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:49:40 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:50:13 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:51:42 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 23:53:52 -!- konr [~user@201.82.129.247] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:54:01 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-74-103-38-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:59:23 mindCrime [~chatzilla@eth0-2.nmd.four.lax.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 23:59:40 *Xach* feels the excitement