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01:51:03 billitch: (flet ((name (...) ...)) #'name) may work on your implementation. That's sometimes made a macro and called NAMED-LAMBDA. alexandria might have an implementation. 01:51:55 billitch: why do you need to do that? 01:52:14 pkhuong: i'll try that, thanks 01:52:43 Ralith: i have lambdas returning lambdas, calling lambdas, and would like to have readable backtraces 01:53:06 billitch: source location should still work. 01:53:53 it does indeed 01:54:27 but not for local variables 01:54:43 -!- bandu is now known as coyo 01:55:06 eh what? 01:56:36 billitch: ah. 01:57:20 i have lambdas in local vars in (text) backtrace, just looking for some extra comfort in debugging.. 01:57:29 (labels ((my-lambda (a) (+ a 1))) #'my-lambda) 01:59:48 if you're using ccl, instead of (function (lambda (...) ...) you can say (nfunction my-name (lambda (...) ...) 02:02:29 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:07:16 -!- Anarch [~olaf@c-67-171-37-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: WILL TROLL FOR FOOD] 02:07:29 -!- clojay [~clojay@75-119-224-175.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: clojay] 02:07:38 -!- ljames [~ln@unaffiliated/ljames] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:07:41 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 02:12:32 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.137.8] has quit [Quit: Well, the machine might have gone down. Brb after a reboot.] 02:12:40 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:22:45 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-77-73.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:24:56 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-2-204.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:25:45 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@rrcs-97-77-55-50.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:26:07 -!- symbole [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:29:20 this works nice in sbcl : (defmacro named-lambda (name (&rest lambda-list) &body body) 02:29:20 `(flet ((,name ,lambda-list ,@body)) 02:29:20 #',name)) 02:29:48 -!- ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-136-193-77.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:29:56 ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-23-155-109.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:30:50 thanks for the suggestion 02:31:00 billitch: don't you want to use labels for that? 02:31:04 -!- Amadiro_ [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:31:16 adeht: what's the difference ? 02:31:23 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 02:31:28 billitch: being able to write recursive functions. 02:31:33 adeht: not if he doesn't want to introduce accidental recursion, he doesn't. 02:31:42 sykopomp: this is for debuggability. 02:32:12 pkhuong: and flet is usually more lightweight, no? 02:32:34 pkhuong: what about intended recursion? ;) 02:32:43 I don't see why it would, especialy if you don't use recursion. 02:32:58 adeht: "this is for debuggability" 02:32:59 yes recursion is really not needed here, but i guess a general NAMED-LAMBDA would use labels 02:33:03 -!- tsuru [~user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:35:14 pkhuong: I see 02:36:05 -!- coyo [~coyotama@pool-71-164-233-190.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:36:11 bigjust [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:39:56 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 02:40:22 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:43:24 -!- carnieri [~carnieri@201.22.51.201.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has left #lisp 02:44:26 bandu [~coyotama@pool-71-164-233-190.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:45:45 Amadiro_ [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 02:48:27 asarch [~asarch@189.188.151.53] has joined #lisp 02:48:44 Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:48:47 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@dsl-220-235-118-249.sa.westnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:51:06 tsuru [~user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:52:14 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 02:54:55 thunk|aw_ [~user@cpe-24-26-199-70.hot.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:55:36 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.114.80.198.plusnet.thn-ag2.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 02:56:08 -!- thunk|away [~user@unaffiliated/thunk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:57:54 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-zfskwsfpfygsyjsr] has joined #lisp 02:57:58 -!- c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:00:07 -!- ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.114.80.198.plusnet.thn-ag2.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:00:33 c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 03:00:43 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 03:01:59 pjb: there's psilord's tutorial 03:02:46 Snamich [~Snamich@32.169.102.139] has joined #lisp 03:02:47 -!- lusory [~bart@bb119-74-201-132.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:03:00 lusory [~bart@bb119-74-201-132.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 03:04:09 -!- mcc_ [~mike@ip68-104-164-151.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:04:13 adu [~ajr@pool-96-255-9-193.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:04:56 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:10:52 -!- cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 03:13:52 -!- xinming [~hyy@115.223.134.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:14:47 -!- thunk|aw_ [~user@cpe-24-26-199-70.hot.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:14:59 hi 03:15:19 i'm implementing a graph patfinding algorithm 03:15:27 thunk [~user@cpe-24-26-199-70.hot.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:15:37 i have a set of visited nodes, i often need to know whether a node is alredy visited or not 03:15:45 list are slow for this propouse, i think 03:15:56 hash tables? 03:16:00 -!- thunk [~user@cpe-24-26-199-70.hot.res.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 03:16:00 thunk [~user@unaffiliated/thunk] has joined #lisp 03:16:16 legis [~legis@unaffiliated/legis] has joined #lisp 03:16:22 maybe hash tables are more slow, there are about 3 query per insertion 03:16:31 i think hashtable insertion is slow 03:16:31 Why not mark the node? 03:16:51 Zhivago: good idea :) 03:16:53 Graph colouring is simple enough. 03:16:53 thanks you 03:16:54 ^ that works too, if you're fine with side-effecting the nodes, or you're willing to spend time cleaning them up afterward. 03:17:08 Just mark them with a serial number. 03:17:22 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:17:27 yes 03:28:54 Cowhm [~Cowhm@c-24-6-240-176.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:33:29 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 03:33:37 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-74-103-38-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:33:52 -!- thunk [~user@unaffiliated/thunk] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:34:15 thunk [~user@cpe-24-26-199-70.hot.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:34:21 -!- thunk [~user@cpe-24-26-199-70.hot.res.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 03:34:21 thunk [~user@unaffiliated/thunk] has joined #lisp 03:38:10 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:39:28 xavieran [~xavieran@dsl-220-235-118-249.sa.westnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:40:06 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 03:40:45 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@dsl-220-235-118-249.sa.westnet.com.au] has quit [Client Quit] 03:41:25 xavieran [~xavieran@dsl-220-235-118-249.sa.westnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:41:42 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@dsl-220-235-118-249.sa.westnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:42:01 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-6-5.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:46:31 Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-110-23.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:46:50 gonzojive_ [~red@rescomp-09-162682.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 03:49:45 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.151.53] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:49:47 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:49:55 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@rescomp-09-162682.Stanford.EDU] has quit [Client Quit] 03:50:40 xavieran [~xavieran@dsl-220-235-118-249.sa.westnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:52:14 -!- Toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-110-23.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: REALITY IS TEARING ITSELF ASUNDER, BUT I MUST RACE] 03:53:30 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:56:15 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 03:56:51 hohoho [~hohoho@p4ae269.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:58:12 galabad [~root@cpe-76-189-149-103.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:59:24 why does cl have so many key words and does any one use even half of them? 03:59:57 What do you mean by key words? 04:01:06 cons car list flet,etc 04:01:07 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-67-248-22-159.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:01:25 They are just symbols in the common-lisp package 04:01:28 galabad: :i :<3 :keywords 04:01:38 galabad: CL was produced by merging a bunch of lisp dialects. 04:01:55 galabad: So there is considerable redundancy to ease back-compatibility. 04:01:56 woops, I mean operator words 04:02:13 thanks 04:02:26 Also many of those redundant operators imply the types of their arguments, which helps with systems with no static type analysis. 04:02:28 galabad: ¿operator? 04:02:36 galabad: you meant macros, functionss and othr symbols? :) 04:02:40 CL have forms and functions, no keywords :) 04:02:50 e.g., aref vs. sref 04:02:50 p_l: a symbol is not a macro or a function. 04:02:52 well, it have, but they are a different thing 04:03:05 marioxcc: it has keywords! 04:03:14 Or elt vs. nth. 04:03:48 Zhivago: I kind of appreciate how there's more specific functions/operators. 04:03:50 Some have differing connotations, such as first vs. car. 04:03:58 sykopomp: yes, but not in the same sense as in another languages 04:04:12 :test is a keyword for example :abcde is 04:04:14 yangsx_ [~yangsx@218.247.244.25] has joined #lisp 04:04:22 those symbols in :keywords package 04:05:27 what classic lisp programs should one study to learn more about how the built in functions are commonly used? 04:05:51 galabad: Spend a few years writing lisp code, and reading the code for the libraries you use. 04:06:22 thanks 04:06:45 I suppose edi weitz libraries are good to study 04:06:56 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-96-255-9-193.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 04:07:22 I wonder what CL symbols I haven't used in my code yet. 04:07:23 musnt there be some historical great lisp code that motivated the inclusion of the many built in functions? 04:07:32 gonzojive_ [~red@128.12.169.254] has joined #lisp 04:08:06 how about shared-initialize 04:08:17 what about it? 04:08:39 is that something you commonly use? 04:08:50 I'm pretty sure I've used it. Not sure if there's any existing code that does... 04:08:54 (of my own) 04:09:19 galabad: are we going to play the "guess what symbol the lisper doesn't use" game? 04:09:24 that might take a while. 04:09:35 that was just a random function I picked out of the very long function lisp in ansi cl 04:09:42 I'm kind of shocked it's so long 04:09:47 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:09:49 there's not that many. 04:09:51 function list that is 04:10:00 it's not a function list. It's a list of symbols... 04:10:15 it's probably more shocking because they're all clumped into a single package. 04:10:38 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 04:10:48 but most languages these days probably include more names in their canonical distributions. 04:11:10 ansi cl doesnt give the number of built in functions, but it looks like at least 200 04:12:45 tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-67-248-22-159.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:12:48 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-67-248-22-159.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 04:13:37 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:14:04 zmyrgel [~user@hoasnet-fe22dd00-59.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 04:14:28 galabad: (let ((count 0)) (do-external-symbols (s (find-package "COMMON-LISP")) (incf count)) count) 04:14:29 aja [~aja@unaffiliated/aja] has joined #lisp 04:16:48 thanks 04:17:01 that's not the number of functions. 04:17:18 978 04:17:26 that's the number of symbols. 04:17:49 ... (when (fboundp s) (incf count)) ... 04:18:20 751 04:18:50 huh 04:20:04 oh well right 04:20:06 that's not accurate. 04:20:07 :D 04:20:27 it's not? 04:20:52 other implementation-specific packages may be binding standard symbols, I guess (since they import them from :cl) 04:21:00 it's probably a close estimate, though. 04:21:13 I'm using sbcl 04:21:25 and swank 04:21:34 clhs 11.1.2.1.2 04:21:34 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/11_abab.htm 04:21:46 I guess there's some exceptions to #2 I don't know about. 04:22:03 or I'm missing something. 04:22:12 Fare: ping 04:22:25 I'm having trouble with clbuild. When I try to compile things that are part of the main projects, some package is always missing. 04:23:10 I can go find these and install them manually, I'm sure... 04:23:40 Is that what I need to do? Or have I botched something that should be obvious? 04:24:27 Good morning everyone! 04:25:02 hi beach 04:25:09 syntaxman: what packages ? 04:25:43 loganhatesmath [needhelp@204.116.59.183] has joined #lisp 04:25:45 978 symbols listed here: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/01_i.htm 04:25:58 anyone interested in doing/hacking a algebra one course for 50 USD 04:26:17 loganhatesmath: go away 04:26:27 fe[nl]ix: last example was "clbuild run closure" , which couldn't find package GUI 04:26:32 prolly not. 04:27:34 I also got problems with recompiling cl+ssl... Said it couldn't find BABEL required by cffi 04:28:55 -!- yangsx_ [~yangsx@218.247.244.25] has quit [Quit: ] 04:29:36 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:29:54 -!- thunk is now known as thunk|away 04:31:35 symbole [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:32:39 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 04:33:09 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 04:37:58 -!- rme [~rme@pool-68-238-7-51.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 04:40:14 is galabad gavino? 04:40:18 :\ 04:41:23 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 04:44:55 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 04:45:22 That would fit indeed! 04:50:52 -!- manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:52:17 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 04:52:21 pavelludiq [~quassel@83.222.190.201] has joined #lisp 04:53:30 aidalgol [~user@114-134-6-5.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 04:54:45 leifw [~user@c-76-121-229-164.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:55:05 -!- thunk|away is now known as thunk 04:58:28 -!- loganhatesmath is now known as EliTe 04:59:29 evening 04:59:40 hello slyrus 05:00:09 -!- EliTe is now known as LyRiczZ 05:00:09 hey beach. so I take it you're up early now that you're back in bx? 05:00:53 slyrus: As usual, yes. 05:04:07 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-183-18-169.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 05:04:16 slyrus_ [~slyrus@adsl-75-55-213-29.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:09:40 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.92.18.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:10:11 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:10:35 -!- galabad [~root@cpe-76-189-149-103.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: BitchX-1.1-final -- just do it.] 05:10:40 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 05:15:16 G0SUB [~ghoseb@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 05:15:52 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:15:55 -!- G0SUB [~ghoseb@121.243.225.226] has quit [Client Quit] 05:21:28 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:23:56 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 05:24:10 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-124-75.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:24:46 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:27:51 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 05:27:52 -!- Cowhm [~Cowhm@c-24-6-240-176.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:35:24 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:40:24 lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 05:41:08 uggh... I always find it difficult to "unwrite" the code that I know needs to be basically rewritten from scratch... 05:41:38 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75429a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 05:42:30 what do you mean "unwrite"? 05:42:48 "delete" :) 05:43:31 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 05:47:15 -!- drafael [~tapio@ip-118-90-128-72.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:47:29 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:47:41 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75429a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:49:57 I don't suppose anyone actually uses epigraph and therefore they won't mind when I break the API... 05:51:45 abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 05:52:51 konr` [~user@201.82.129.247] has joined #lisp 05:54:20 cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 05:54:52 -!- [df] [~df@bspencer.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:55:30 mcc_ [~mike@ip68-104-164-151.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:55:55 [df] [~df@bspencer.plus.com] has joined #lisp 05:56:32 -!- konr [~user@201.82.129.247] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:58:06 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-zfskwsfpfygsyjsr] has left #lisp 06:01:28 -!- dejones [~dejones@cpe-70-124-77-66.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:03:11 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-zagpepngguxuxqwa] has joined #lisp 06:11:04 -!- konr` [~user@201.82.129.247] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:12:03 KE7TMA [~ketma@c-76-27-197-98.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:14:53 -!- KE7TMA [~ketma@c-76-27-197-98.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:15:19 dejones [~dejones@cpe-70-124-77-66.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:16:40 pers [~user@246.sub-75-231-248.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 06:16:55 -!- pers [~user@246.sub-75-231-248.myvzw.com] has left #lisp 06:18:26 manuel_ [~manuel@p54B8B8D1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:19:00 rplacd [~rplacd@ppp-124-120-118-188.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 06:19:42 fiveop [~fiveop@g229070206.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 06:20:11 sellout [~greg@212.234.38.214] has joined #lisp 06:20:56 -!- potatishandlarn [potatishan@c-b21e25e0-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [] 06:21:06 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:23:06 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:24:01 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 06:24:12 -!- aja [~aja@unaffiliated/aja] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:26:54 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@128.12.169.254] has quit [Quit: gonzojive_] 06:27:30 -!- djinni` [~djinni`@li14-39.members.linode.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:27:31 djinni`` [~djinni`@li14-39.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 06:28:11 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:28:22 good morning 06:29:05 OsamaBinWOG [~OsamaBinW@24-177-10-101.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 06:29:32 -!- WOG [~OsamaBinW@24-177-10-101.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:30:00 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:30:36 hello mvilleneuve 06:32:16 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:32:30 -!- LyRiczZ [needhelp@204.116.59.183] has quit [Quit: Living your life is a task so difficult, it has never been attempted before.] 06:36:03 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-181-9.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 06:38:46 -!- manuel_ [~manuel@p54B8B8D1.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 06:39:40 manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:43:49 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@rrcs-97-77-55-50.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:45:23 -!- symbole [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.6/20100628124739]] 06:45:55 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-111-122.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 06:49:32 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-183-18-169.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:50:16 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-6-5.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Restarting Emacs...] 06:51:09 aidalgol [~user@114-134-6-5.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:53:38 ASau` [~user@77.246.230.215] has joined #lisp 06:54:25 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-6-5.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:54:56 sword [~user@c-76-115-88-63.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:54:56 aidalgol [~user@114-134-6-5.rurallink.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:55:03 -!- sword [~user@c-76-115-88-63.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 06:55:18 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 06:58:09 hmm... never occurred to me that I could use a symbol from a different package for an accessor. nice. 07:00:07 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-253-204.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:00:09 -!- bandu [~coyotama@pool-71-164-233-190.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: client closed in haste] 07:01:51 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 07:05:52 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-178-41-103.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 07:06:51 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 07:09:54 -!- dysinger [~dysinger@c-24-20-159-240.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: dysinger] 07:19:07 Amadiro__ [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 07:19:48 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-hjhvdeyytdjjbwjz] has joined #lisp 07:20:24 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-zagpepngguxuxqwa] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:21:45 -!- Amadiro_ [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:23:05 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:24:53 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-178-41-103.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:25:55 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 07:33:37 -!- Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:40:28 splittist [~David@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 07:40:31 morning 07:44:22 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:46:07 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:48:26 hello splittist 07:48:42 seeing as my slime-repl's just hung, hello splittist. 07:49:46 hi beach. rplacd, I feel so special... 07:50:42 five years down the line when I'm looking for a lisp job I expect you to return the favor 07:51:10 xinming [~hyy@122.238.72.230] has joined #lisp 07:52:01 gabnet [~gabnet@sma83-1-88-185-8-89.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 07:54:57 Davse_Bamse [~davse@82.103.143.161] has joined #lisp 07:55:34 actually, I do have a bit of a noob question 07:56:35 if I inhert from standard-class, should the class I define with the new metaclass be able to inherit straight from standard-object? 07:56:46 relcomp [~chatzilla@pc92-e03-3.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE] has joined #lisp 07:57:07 it's done in the AMOP but CCL complains that standard-class and the inherited metaclass are incompatible. 07:59:04 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:59:22 nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has joined #lisp 08:02:33 -!- mcc_ [~mike@ip68-104-164-151.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:12:07 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 08:14:32 -!- Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-akxlawilrgmzjroq] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:14:33 -!- Snamich [~Snamich@32.169.102.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:14:45 -!- scott_ [~scott@botters/staff/tsion] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:17:42 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-40-213.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:17:48 Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-hheymlbkmgclfiza] has joined #lisp 08:22:22 revel0__ [~revel0@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 08:22:33 blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 08:23:21 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 08:26:23 hi splittist 08:30:29 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:32:25 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@sma83-1-88-185-8-89.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 08:32:56 Guest13972 [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-183-42.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:34:11 -!- Guest13972 [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-183-42.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 08:34:43 Hello fe[nl]ix. I was wondering if there was any documentation of iolib.multiplex? 08:35:37 sepult` [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-183-42.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:36:38 -!- _3b [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:37:37 -!- sepult` is now known as sepult 08:37:44 psilord's tutorial 08:37:45 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-183-42.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 08:38:27 http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~psilord/blog/data/iolib-tutorial/tutorial.html 08:38:35 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:38:43 the code is in examples/ 08:39:08 Guest96580 [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-183-42.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:39:34 setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:42:30 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-eeqsmrascwxqpjbl] has joined #lisp 08:43:24 -!- Guest96580 is now known as sepult` 08:43:38 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 08:43:54 -!- sepult` is now known as sepult 08:47:26 -!- sellout [~greg@212.234.38.214] has quit [Quit: sellout] 08:48:26 -!- nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:48:52 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:50:49 is there a way to force the SLIME repl buffer in emacs not to be higher than a fixed number of lines ? 08:51:15 it's possible for compilation buffers in (compilation-window-height) 08:51:23 but I can't find this kind of setting for slime 08:52:08 -!- ecraven [~nex@octonex.swe.uni-linz.ac.at] has quit [Quit: brb] 08:52:09 There's no specific support for that, but Emacs may have something like that for special buffers 08:52:16 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:53:22 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 08:53:42 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 08:54:06 slime-repl-mode-hook 08:54:22 thank's 08:54:32 but mine's set to turn-on-redshank 08:54:41 mode 08:54:49 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:55:11 instead of specifying compilation-window-height for that hook 08:55:24 -!- rplacd [~rplacd@ppp-124-120-118-188.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:55:37 maybe you can put some functions there 08:56:48 sepult: your advice is wrong 08:57:26 ok 08:57:34 ecraven [~nex@octonex.swe.uni-linz.ac.at] has joined #lisp 08:59:17 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 09:02:11 xan_ [~xan@131-46-207-85.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has joined #lisp 09:02:29 -!- aidalgol [~user@114-134-6-5.rurallink.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:04:13 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:05:48 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:06:38 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 09:08:34 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Client Quit] 09:11:07 -!- leifw [~user@c-76-121-229-164.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:11:59 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 09:12:01 -!- CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:12:22 -!- Davse_Bamse [~davse@82.103.143.161] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:12:46 stassats: did you gave better advice now ? or do you want to live with my bad advise 09:16:24 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.75.159] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:18:20 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 09:20:15 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 09:23:30 sellout [~greg@89-230.252-81.static-ip.oleane.fr] has joined #lisp 09:28:18 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:28:57 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:29:32 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 09:30:10 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Client Quit] 09:31:42 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 09:33:02 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:33:04 anyone want to weigh in on newlisp? 09:33:22 no 09:33:29 umm... you meant "anyone feeling suicidal"? 09:33:56 (I suspect rather negative responses) 09:34:04 newlisp ? 09:34:09 what's that ? 09:34:13 newlisp is off-topic 09:37:08 -!- Dodek [dodek@jest.pro] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:37:23 slyrus: yes 09:38:30 making fun of newlisp is never off-topic 09:39:08 on the one hand, it comes with a bunch of handy statistics functions; and on the other, hilarious ideas about lisp implementation. 09:39:35 Well, actually, it isn't so bad, imho. 09:39:36 asarch [~asarch@189.188.159.127] has joined #lisp 09:40:32 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:40:56 first lesson learned: don't choose a name that will be a lie in 20 years' time. 09:43:23 XLisp is more featured when it comes to statistics, ne? :) 09:43:41 lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has joined #lisp 09:50:52 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:52:10 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@58.41.0.124] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:52:34 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:52:54 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-eeqsmrascwxqpjbl] has left #lisp 09:53:40 antifuchs: i like that point ;] 09:54:17 -!- Tanami [~rlynow@150.101.97.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:04:20 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:04:52 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 10:07:35 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.48] has joined #lisp 10:08:06 i don't see why it'd be off topic, you'd think #lisp would cover multiple variants. 10:08:18 i was curious if anyone had it working with slime 10:09:02 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:10:02 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:10:33 -!- xan_ [~xan@131-46-207-85.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:10:34 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 263 seconds] 10:11:25 -!- kuwabara [~kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:12:33 Demosthenes: consulting the channel topic gives a good hint re what's on and off topic. :) 10:12:43 Demosthenes: /topic #lisp 10:12:59 also, newlisp iirc ended up as something close to a joke, didn't it 10:13:00 ? 10:14:32 kuwabara [~kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.fr] has joined #lisp 10:15:59 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-183-42.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:16:31 rplacd [~rplacd@ppp-124-120-118-188.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 10:17:22 Guest52448 [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-183-42.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:18:14 -!- Guest52448 [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-183-42.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:20:46 sepult` [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-183-42.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:21:49 I was thinking about a doing a small GUI app. Any recommendations for a GUI framework? Or any warnings? 10:23:23 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:24:09 html5 is probably the best-supported UI toolkit in all of lisp (: 10:24:15 very cross-platform, too (: 10:24:18 cYmen: depends on requirements 10:24:25 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 10:24:55 if you can't stomach DHTML, there's cl-gtk2, commonQt, mcclim and commercial ones 10:25:08 I guess you could also try to load some old stuff 10:25:09 -!- kuwabara [~kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:25:11 (like Garnet) 10:25:42 LTK is probably the easiest way tho, but kind of "messy". 10:25:54 cYmen: What are the features you would like? 10:26:24 udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-iefbavbhclcgmdwy] has joined #lisp 10:26:54 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:27:19 an input box and an area for printing text will do 10:27:50 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.164.71] has joined #lisp 10:27:51 though I would like to make parts of the printed text clickable...never looked into how that is usually done 10:28:03 use the web. 10:28:20 html lets you do very cool things, interactivity-wise, nowadays. 10:28:40 cYmen: Then I do recommend that you use McCLIM. It has very good text support, and it uses something called "presentations" that make it possible to associate areas of the screen with commands or arguments to commands. 10:29:04 yeah, that sounds cool 10:29:15 kuwabara [~kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.net] has joined #lisp 10:29:37 cYmen: It might take a while to learn, but the investment is worth it. 10:29:54 antifuchs: Can you recommend a library for building such stuff with lisp? 10:29:56 -!- sepult` is now known as sepult 10:30:12 What would I need anyway? is there a mod-lisp for apache? 10:30:14 hunchentoot for the web server, and a text editor for the html and the javascript. 10:30:27 oh of course, hunchentoot 10:30:35 I use mod_proxy in apache to reverse-proxy to a hunchentoot instance 10:30:43 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 10:31:13 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:31:38 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 10:37:38 rtra [~rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #lisp 10:38:00 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B827.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:39:09 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-183-42.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:40:52 Guest25151 [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-183-42.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:41:26 -!- [df] [~df@bspencer.plus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:42:39 -!- Guest25151 [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-183-42.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 10:42:47 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:42:48 dfox [~dfox@r3ah61.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 10:42:50 cYmen: hunchentoot, yaclml, parenscript (or parenscript-classic), jQuery or ExtJS, CL-JSON ... should be enough 10:43:44 _3b [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:44:03 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.159.127] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:44:15 sepult` [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-183-42.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:44:29 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 10:46:57 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:47:05 [df] [~df@bspencer.plus.com] has joined #lisp 10:51:08 -!- sepult` [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-183-42.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:51:55 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 10:55:52 sepult- [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-183-42.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:57:14 -!- sepult- [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-183-42.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 10:58:28 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: astoon] 10:58:31 sepult- [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-183-42.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:58:48 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 11:02:31 *p_l* ponders if it would have been better if JS had a portable bytecode... 11:03:23 holy crap, I'd realized how many dependencies hunchentoot had 11:03:34 *I hadn't 11:03:35 buggarage- [~user@xdsl-87-79-183-42.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:05:43 many? 11:06:19 tbh the only reference point I have is lispbuilder-sdl 11:06:20 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:06:26 but that's 4 v. 12 11:06:55 but seeing as that's just a frontend it probably isn't the best comparison 11:07:21 not much difference 11:07:55 I disagree, but whatever 11:08:10 btbngr [~Matt@smorge2.force9.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:08:31 <_3b> well, 'dependency' isn't really a meaningful measure 11:08:50 disable SSL and the only possibly-hard-to-install dependency is gone 11:09:00 I just did that, actually 11:09:34 well, lispbuilder-sdl is a binding library, not one that implements a lot by itself, and it only requires iirc two compat layers (trivial-garbage and CFFI) 11:09:45 yeah, I'd noted that earlier. 11:09:59 -!- Amadiro__ [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: A subtle thought that is in error may yet give rise to fruitful inquiry that can establish truths of great value.] 11:10:00 cinch [~cinch@85-127-117-50.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 11:10:07 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:10:08 http://xach.com/tmp/ql.html would have told you how many dependencies it has! 11:10:33 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 11:11:38 oh wow, that's flashy. 11:12:35 -!- srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.4/20100611143157]] 11:12:47 Xach: Is that in descending order of dependencies? 11:12:59 No, hrmm  random? 11:13:04 sellout: descending in order of depended-on count 11:13:10 Ah 11:13:22 Good ordering :) 11:13:24 -!- sepult- [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-183-42.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:13:36 B-T is in the top 10 :) 11:14:19 rather obvious, I'd say :D 11:14:27 the transitive dependency of the site running at dwim.hu is somewhere around 90+ libs 11:14:30 -!- buggarage- [~user@xdsl-87-79-183-42.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:14:43 wasn't b-t nominated for CLtL3 inclusion? 11:15:51 Xach: But you really want to also have all the depended-on systems before the current system  then you get closer to ordered by transitive-dependency-count. 11:15:51 sepult` [~user@xdsl-87-79-183-42.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:16:13 IE, at least as many things depend on alexandria as cffi, since cffi depends on alexandria. 11:16:42 http://xach.com/tmp/ql.js has the raw data, knock yourself out! 11:16:51 *p_l* would love to see a graph 11:17:05 Wheee! 11:18:00 -!- sepult` [~user@xdsl-87-79-183-42.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:19:00 sepult` [~user@xdsl-87-79-183-42.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:19:41 -!- rplacd [~rplacd@ppp-124-120-118-188.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:20:05 rplacd [~rplacd@ppp-124-120-118-188.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 11:20:05 -!- x-ip is now known as x-ip__ 11:20:47 -!- sepult` [~user@xdsl-87-79-183-42.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 11:22:17 *Xach* pushes the first project to http://github.com/quicklisp 11:22:38 *toot* 11:23:51 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 11:25:30 badipod [~badipod@d110-32-130-188.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 11:25:30 -!- badipod [~badipod@d110-32-130-188.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 11:25:30 badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 11:25:55 hi folks. here's a puzzle i'm trying to work out (general theory) 11:26:39 hmz. or lisppaste blew up. or is lagged. :/ 11:28:08 http://paste.lisp.org/display/112258 11:28:14 yay, xach! 11:28:32 *p_l* likes how quicklisp.org omits link to asdf-install:D 11:28:48 Xach: is that a github organization? 11:30:55 <_3b> btbngr: i'd argue that is a bug in the specification of binary/ if there are multiple interpretations 11:31:11 How to set yourself a modest goal: "Overall, though, we believe Go's type syntax is easier to understand than C's, especially when things get complicated." 11:32:42 splittist: To be fair, it's the same guy, so you wouldn't necessarily expect him to reach that goal... ;) 11:32:49 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:32:56 antifuchs: I don't know. What's a github organization? 11:33:06 the spiral rule is pretty easy to remember, overall 11:33:11 _3b, hmz, yeah, that's an interpretation i suppose. leaving it unspecified in module A would mean, i suppose, module writer B and C would be in error implementing it? 11:33:18 <_3b> btbngr: but otherwise, A seems like a reasonable rule of thumb (not so much as a rule for a compiler to enforce, since CL isn't really a 'keep people from breaking things if they want to' language) 11:33:45 Xach: it's like a user, but it's presented more nicely if there are multiple contributors 11:33:54 splittist: you meant DMR? :) 11:34:03 no need to do it now, I just wanted to see how it looks when you use it (: 11:34:35 <_3b> btbngr: i mean more that whoever defined the generic function should have decided whether it truncates or not, or specified a generic for each option if there are more than one 11:34:41 p_l: from here http://blog.golang.org/2010/07/gos-declaration-syntax.html (so rp...) 11:34:54 <_3b> btbngr: in this case, i'd say B should have defined binary-truncated-/ or something 11:35:02 right, yeah, that makes sense 11:35:24 revel0___ [~revel0@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 11:35:34 sepult` [~user@xdsl-87-79-183-42.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:35:46 i'm thinking beyond CL, really. CL i'm happy for generic functions to do what they do, because stomping over everything is part of the fun :) 11:36:33 -!- micro_ is now known as golgotha 11:36:36 -!- revel0__ [~revel0@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:36:48 but certainly attention isn't really drawn to that particular problem 11:36:51 ah, pike :) 11:37:06 <_3b> a (style-) warning when multiple code locations redefine the same method sounds reasonable too, wouldn't be surprised if SBCL complained about that 11:37:21 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-5-164.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:37:27 *btbngr* nods 11:37:51 it's never bitten me, i just ran into it while playing with a toy lisp when i was bashing out the details for generic functions 11:37:57 -!- Deltafire [~chris@82-71-44-155.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk] has quit [Quit: brb] 11:38:03 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:38:09 haven't seen it mentioned before 11:39:03 thanks _3b 11:43:45 xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@116.227.164.71] has joined #lisp 11:43:57 The error is not in generic functions. 11:44:13 It is in having methods with semantics inconsistent with the generic function. 11:44:27 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.164.71] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:44:57 sloppy specification of binary/ leading to confusion further down the line. yes, that seems appropriate. 11:45:24 Were the semantics consistent, there would be no problem. 11:46:44 In that example, the module A author should have defined generic-functions, but no methods. 11:47:54 Well, he shouldn't have thought that "there are different options for division". 11:48:03 well, he defined the other 'expected' functions, but his choice to leave binary/ unspecified was wrong, yeah. 11:48:07 A clear sign of semantic incoherence. 11:49:37 i bring it up, actually, because EuLisp defined binary/ on (word sized signed integer) to be truncated, but not so on floats. 11:49:45 Stupid language. 11:49:49 :) 11:50:01 It should have chosen two operators. 11:51:56 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:53:01 I'm inclined to think that all arithmetic operators should be distinguished between exact and inexact forms. 11:53:11 CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 11:53:28 schemelike 11:53:51 oh, no, the data is defined that way, but the operators aren't. 11:54:02 Well, no, because + operates on both inexact and exact arguments -- yes. 11:55:27 _3b: sbcl does issue a STYLE-WARNING. I've tested it. 11:56:09 ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 11:58:40 does it locate where it was defined previously? that could be annoying if it didn't :) 11:58:54 "someone screwed up earlier somewhere" 11:59:17 no, it doesn't. 11:59:30 hm. annoying. 11:59:31 -!- rplacd [~rplacd@ppp-124-120-118-188.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:01:47 Are there references from compiled code back to source? Is that what you mean by "locate"? 12:01:59 relcomp: usually, yes 12:01:59 abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 12:02:38 yeah, "previous definition: foo.lisp line 23" 12:03:07 p_l: How does this work? Give me a hint. (I know it from Java but never heard of it in LISP) 12:03:44 relcomp: implementation specific, but SWANK contains interface to that, which allows SLIME to use M-. and M-, 12:05:00 Ah. 12:05:31 -!- zmyrgel [~user@hoasnet-fe22dd00-59.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:05:47 so you can place point @ symbol and jump to its definition in file 12:07:11 rlb3 [~robert@ng1.cptxoffice.net] has joined #lisp 12:08:36 *relcomp* toys around wich newly learned M-. and is pleased :) 12:09:03 M-, jumps back, remember :) 12:09:09 minion: slime.mov 12:09:09 slime.mov: "using SLIME" video by Marco Baringer, http://common-lisp.net/project/movies/movies/slime.mov 12:09:13 watch this one 12:09:23 starting opera from emacs works 12:09:32 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:09:35 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:09:40 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:09:40 but the url won't be passed on to it 12:09:42 lol 12:10:16 hmm, that raises another interesting question, what methods are used to track source information, particularly through macro expansion etc? i've developed a sort of weird way of doing it, where you have a source 'wrap' around sexprs in the reader, and accessors, predicates and mutators 'unwrap' their arguments in the compilation environment, and using unwrapped data in the regular environment without the overhead. 12:10:18 -!- rtra [~rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit [Quit: night] 12:10:22 instead i get several tabs for each url i try to send 12:12:31 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-158-1-128-172.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #lisp 12:12:44 p_l: Ok downloading. (To watch it later on the train home) 12:15:01 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 12:18:29 This is for those who don't have fun with LISP. (At the end it says that it puts it back there.) 12:18:32 http://www.neglook.com/movies/manual-intro.mov 12:19:18 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-183-42.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:19:51 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.164.71] has joined #lisp 12:20:20 Only watch the last seconds :) 12:20:33 -!- xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@116.227.164.71] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:20:59 of what ? 12:22:07 antifuchs: ah, nope. just a user, i guess. 12:22:19 I linked to a commercial-like movie about newlisp: http://www.neglook.com/movies/manual-intro.mov which says at the end that it puts fun back into LISP. 12:22:50 Xach: I think an organization would be a better fit, depending on your world domination plans (: 12:22:56 but you can crossgrade anytime (: 12:23:13 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-5-164.w92-141.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:25:51 antifuchs: Yeah, just discovered the "crossgrade" myself. Github is muy cool. 12:26:09 it is (: 12:27:19 xan_ [~xan@131-46-207-85.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has joined #lisp 12:28:19 I'm in France now, but I have this problem where instead of french words I use German or Spanish  like saying "danke" instead of "merci". I think my brain has one foreign-language area, and it lumps them all in together. 12:28:37 Not that I speak any of those languages passably. 12:29:04 -!- tltstc [~tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: tltstc] 12:29:46 -!- relcomp [~chatzilla@pc92-e03-3.igf.Uni-Osnabrueck.DE] has left #lisp 12:30:00 sellout: a common phenomenon 12:30:49 Tanami [~rlynow@150.101.97.171] has joined #lisp 12:30:52 sellout: will you be swinging by Geneva on your trip (not France, but surrounded by it)? Or be in Paris last couple of weeks of this month? 12:31:07 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:33:17 sellout: indeed, where are you going? (: 12:33:43 splittist: I will be around Paris some time in August I think  either the very beginning, or near the 15th. Mostly to play in Bleau :) If Germany had won the halbfinale, I would be passing through Geneva this weekend  but instead I will watch the final somewhere in Spain. 12:33:45 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:34:22 antifuchs: Working in Toulouse for a month, then two weeks that are up in the air (with climbing and diving as intended activities) 12:34:34 sellout: OK. In BCN middle of next week? 12:34:34 ah, cool 12:35:55 it all averages out to staying at sea level. best not to bother. 12:36:06 splittist: Just for the weekend  undecided between there and San Sebastián/Pamplona. 12:36:09 -!- badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPod touch - http://colloquy.mobi] 12:36:21 abugosh [~Adium@pool-74-103-38-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:36:48 heh, the newLISP movie points out it's a "scripting" language :D 12:36:57 Xach: Indeed  I'm calling this my ±30m trip. 12:37:12 Komi [Komi@62.32.150.163] has joined #lisp 12:38:36 Adlai```` [~adlai@109.65.19.239] has joined #lisp 12:38:43 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 12:40:13 -!- Adlai``` [~adlai@93-173-179-29.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:41:02 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-74-103-38-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:41:52 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 12:42:19 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:43:55 heh, notLISP is still going? 12:45:02 hello. anyone here involved in common-lisp.net mailing list admin? 12:48:18 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-64-206.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 12:48:45 Xach: would you mind giving beta access to QL? 12:48:56 I've got some ideas for standalone variant 12:49:25 It's offline at the moment. I'll let you know when it's ready again. 12:50:25 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-60-58.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:50:28 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:50:35 mcc_ [~mike@ip68-104-164-151.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 12:51:05 Xach: I need only source of the download mechanism for now (planning to replace HTTP support with Drakma and adding command line parsing, then putting it into a binary) 12:51:59 rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 12:53:15 -!- Komi [Komi@62.32.150.163] has quit [] 12:53:25 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.148.170.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:55:52 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:57:39 Komi [Komi@62.32.134.81] has joined #lisp 12:59:05 mvillene1ve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:59:13 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:59:35 -!- mvillene1ve is now known as mvilleneuve 13:00:45 p_l: Sorry, I don't have anything for you right now 13:01:03 ok 13:01:05 tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-67-248-22-159.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:04:29 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 13:04:42 dto: what do you need ? 13:04:46 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-55-169.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:04:57 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:05:28 fe[nl]ix: messaged you 13:07:43 -!- rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:08:45 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-181-9.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:09:48 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.128.94] has joined #lisp 13:10:28 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-135-237.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 13:10:48 is newlisp some kind of scheme ? 13:10:59 no, it's some kind of a joke 13:10:59 it's an anti-scheme 13:14:49 xD 13:15:01 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 13:15:21 -!- gz_ [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has left #lisp 13:15:23 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has left #lisp 13:17:10 think: larry wall has his way with scheme. 13:17:27 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:17:52 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@p4ae269.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:18:07 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:18:38 larry laffer, more like 13:18:44 hehe 13:20:59 it's what happens when someone saw the syntax of lisp once in a book they opened in a bookshop ten years ago, and now applies bizarre eval rules where (1 -2 foo) yields a meaningful value and has the cheek to name it 'lisp'. 13:25:05 -!- Komi [Komi@62.32.134.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:26:46 oh, newlisp is amazing :D 13:27:17 that... or it's epic trolling... :) 13:28:52 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:29:15 Komi [Komi@62.32.134.81] has joined #lisp 13:32:31 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 13:33:48 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:35:24 Joreji [~thomas@79-030.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:38:46 arccsc [~arccsc@112.225.35.166] has joined #lisp 13:38:51 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-135-237.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:42:45 -!- arccsc [~arccsc@112.225.35.166] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:43:38 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-67-248-22-159.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:44:14 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-253-204.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 13:46:12 arccsc [~arccsc@112.225.35.166] has joined #lisp 13:48:30 Hmm, can't say I know much about newlisp 13:49:11 ingvar [ingvar@83.105.81.130] has joined #lisp 13:50:49 Snamich [~Snamich@166.189.101.119] has joined #lisp 13:56:30 tayloj [~tayloj@indigo-15.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 13:56:57 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:00:31 p_l: btw, i'm not sure where to link for asdf-install...there's a "portable" one, and the original one, and they're incompatible. 14:02:33 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:03:39 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 14:04:59 Xach: I suggest not linking, might discourage people from installing it :P 14:05:01 Could anyone explain to me why SLIME can start once, but if I kill that instance it complains about unimplemented Swank interfaces and immediately disconnects the next time? O_o 14:05:06 rrice [~rrice@oh-67-76-18-254.sta.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 14:05:20 Odin-: maybe you should try to peacefully shutdown it? 14:05:36 p_l: Meh. ",quit" is what I use. 14:05:48 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:06:01 I just say "kill" because I've spent too much time around people who work with engines. 14:06:24 (internal combustion ones) 14:07:01 Although. Hmm. 14:07:15 It does immediately connect to the image that's running my window manager... 14:07:40 Odin-: I think the warning is unrelated 14:08:26 I guess you may be running against an Emacs bug (does not correctly handle EINTR in its socket code, iirc), just try to connect again 14:08:43 tcr: Might be. One of the unimplemented interfaces is "make-fd-stream" and the reason it gives for disconnecting is an end-of-file on an fd-stream. 14:08:56 I've already tried reconnecting ten times. :) 14:08:58 It's unrelated 14:09:03 hm 14:09:24 Is it emacs -nw over ssh? that triggered that bug very often for me 14:09:36 Huh. 14:09:49 Yes, it is. 14:09:59 xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@116.227.164.71] has joined #lisp 14:10:04 Why does that cause this sort of problem, though? 14:10:20 Yeah keep on trying. Or consider running Emacs on you local side and just connecting to the swank side over ssh forwarding 14:10:31 Odin-: heh, I agree then :D 14:10:35 It triggers the EINTR somehow 14:10:55 disumu [~disumu@pD4B9ED23.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:10:57 *p_l* works enough with engines as well, but not necessarily *internal* combustion... though nothing practical in last two years :/ 14:11:13 tcr: Bizarre. 14:11:14 For details you can search the slime-devel lisp, helmut did a heroic job on tracking the issue down and submitting a fix to Emacs upstream 14:11:15 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.164.71] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:12:16 In case you do, please post a link; I'd like to refresh my memory on the issue but I'm too lazy to do the search :-) 14:12:28 tcr: Problem is, I have too much stuff going in this emacs instance (such as most of my channels of communications ;) to shift to a local one. 14:15:21 Maybe helmut mentioned a workaround in that posting 14:15:59 -!- rrice [~rrice@oh-67-76-18-254.sta.embarqhsd.net] has left #lisp 14:19:54 TeMPOraL [~user@erlang.pnet.com.pl] has joined #lisp 14:24:18 http://common-lisp.net/pipermail/slime-devel/2009-December/016985.html <-- This would seem to be the thread you mean. 14:24:20 -!- disumu [~disumu@pD4B9ED23.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:24:24 And yes, there is a workaround mentioned. :) 14:24:54 Although in this case, it's frankly only _slightly_ more work than going to the physical machine and starting slime from there. 8) 14:25:50 is there some reference work done on running many SBCL/CCL instances from single forked image and its impact on memory usage? 14:26:55 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-111-122.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:28:06 you mean copy-on-write friendliness of GC? 14:28:25 antifuchs: yep, and how well it scales 14:28:25 hello anyone use autolisp? 14:28:37 I suspect the sbcl gc isn't very cow-friendly, but I'm definitely the wrong person to ask about details 14:28:47 I was thinking of >100 instances running fairly complex apps 14:29:26 well, x86 uses conservative GC, so it should avoid too much problems especially if I lock the image into memory... 14:29:31 arccsc: autolisp is off-topic here, sorry. 14:29:48 Has anyone made an awesome visualization with my js data yet? 14:30:28 o 14:30:40 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 14:33:24 p_l: you could use the old trick for locking static stuff in the highest generation before forking. 14:33:38 (damn, what was the name) 14:33:55 purify. 14:34:16 *p_l* ponders whether CCL or SBCL might be better choice, given CCL's lower memory usage 14:34:17 ah, heh. "This function is a no-op on platforms using the generational garbage collector (x86, x86-64, ppc)." 14:34:26 try both, and publish your results! 14:34:50 p_l: Is CCL far lower than even SBCL in terms of memory use? 14:35:09 also, how well does fork() on currently multithreaded work? 14:35:13 -!- lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:36:30 *mt iage 14:36:34 *image 14:37:08 antifuchs: purify is the stuff designed for cheney gc, which doesn't have generations. It puts things into static space. On gencgc, SBCL now puts things into the oldest generation instead. (jsnell's change from a few years back.) 14:37:30 TDT: iirc yes 14:37:53 lichtblau: version 1.0.37 of the manual claims it's a no-op 14:38:20 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:38:25 p_l: I haven't used much else other than sbcl, I should mess with a few others and compare/contrast a bit to find a favorite for certain circumstances. Low memory usage would be nice for small daemons of some sorts. 14:38:30 ISTR purify once did something on gencgc, but I'm not sure if that's still true 14:40:44 didn't I just say that? 14:42:00 anyway, the idea is to check how many instances I can cram into a single server 14:42:02 gz___ [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:42:02 gz__ [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:42:20 what you said could have been interpreted as purify putting stuff into the oldest generation 14:42:35 but actually that happens only at core-saving time 14:43:17 -!- gz__ [Clozure@clozure-93943513.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: gz__] 14:43:18 -!- gz__ [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 14:43:18 -!- gz___ [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 14:43:19 tcr: Thanks for pointing me in that direction, by the way. Workaround in place and use. :) 14:45:12 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 14:45:59 mrbug [~user@unaffiliated/mrbug] has joined #lisp 14:46:15 hmmm... how do I force GC in SBCL? 14:46:35 sb-ext:gc 14:47:10 p_l: you can make gencgc fairly COW-friendly. Fork will still be slow because of the way we interleave boxed and unboxed pages. 14:48:14 CCL 1.4 linux amd64 ~ 44MB after loading bare minimum of necessary code 14:48:35 Odin-: which workaround? 14:49:16 p_l: hmm. sounds much? i think i end up with something like that with hunch, postmodern, etc on fbsd/x86. 14:49:38 SBCL for the same code got 130 MB :) 14:49:49 hypno: x86-64. Each boxed value takes twice as much space. 14:50:07 tcr: For the "slime disconnects right away problem", the details for which are at http://common-lisp.net/pipermail/slime-devel/2009-December/017018.html :p 14:50:29 (for SBCL 1.0.39.23) 14:51:12 Odin-: That can be done simpler: just put (setq swank:*dont-close* t) into your ~/.swank.lisp 14:51:29 the loaded systems are ASDF2, prepl, parenscript, hunchentoot, rucksack, yaclml and cl-json 14:51:34 (plus all deps) 14:51:49 pkhuong: yeah, or even more. i think CCL i around 8mb on a clean instance, heh. 14:52:55 pkhuong: I don't plan on forking intensively 14:53:38 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 14:53:58 p_l: 'course, you still have to see if the libraries you're using are side-effect-happy, in which case COW will lose regardless of the GC. 14:53:58 the fork is there to start the app instance from a preloaded image, with the forked image changing security context and loading user code 14:54:24 how's the jailed evalbot going, btw? 14:54:56 pkhuong: haven't had time, the current evaluation of memory usage is for a possible commercial venture of mine 14:54:57 tcr: Intriguing. Thanks for the pointer. :> 14:56:16 pkhuong: I've got the theory done, but I don't have time for experiments (and it requires non-vanilla linux kernel as well 14:56:19 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 14:56:19 ) 14:56:25 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Client Quit] 14:56:36 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-hjhvdeyytdjjbwjz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:57:04 -!- arccsc [~arccsc@112.225.35.166] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:57:05 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 14:57:10 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Client Quit] 15:00:01 -!- blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:03:54 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.164.71] has joined #lisp 15:03:56 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.128.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:04:03 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:04:11 -!- varjag 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Leaving] 16:25:01 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-179-46-211.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:29:27 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:29:44 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 16:30:27 Komi [Komi@62.32.131.169] has joined #lisp 16:31:25 sellout [~greg@212.234.38.214] has joined #lisp 16:31:52 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:32:23 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:32:59 -!- xyxxyyy [~xyxu@116.227.164.71] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:33:06 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:33:52 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:34:56 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:38:42 bandu [kvirc@pool-71-164-233-190.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:39:28 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quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:00:35 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:02:45 -!- curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:04:00 HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 17:04:37 curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:06:23 -!- mrbug [~user@unaffiliated/mrbug] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:06:32 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:10:16 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 17:14:58 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-228-233.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:15:17 -!- [df] [~df@bspencer.plus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:16:01 nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-129-229.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 17:16:19 Hello all. 17:16:26 (So much for "tomorrow".) 17:17:08 [df] [~df@bspencer.plus.com] has joined #lisp 17:17:44 -!- Komi [Komi@62.32.131.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:19:06 Komi [Komi@62.32.131.169] has joined #lisp 17:20:28 Morning, nyef. 17:20:33 Tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow 17:21:18 yo gigamonkey. i updated your blog url for planet lisp. time to get bloggin'! 17:21:25 dabd [~dabd@gtkdbio.inesc-id.pt] has joined #lisp 17:23:59 *Xach* pours out 40s for salex, marco antoniotti 17:24:17 -!- bgum23 [~bgum23@HERTZ.UNI-MUENSTER.DE] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:26:00 Yeah. Maybe soon I'll be able to blog something about my new Lisp code for generating epubs. 17:26:15 BTW, what's the URL again for which libs are in QL? 17:26:32 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:26:50 Anyone use this thing: http://common-lisp.net/project/zip/ ? 17:26:58 I think lichtblau might. 17:27:07 Yeah, other than him, I meant. 17:27:23 Is it the state of the art for CL zipping? 17:27:31 gigamonkey: http://xach.com/tmp/releases.txt 17:27:43 http://xach.com/tmp/ql.html will let you highlight zip and see if anything depends on it. 17:28:06 "3b-swf-swc" 17:28:20 That sounds like a personals ad. 17:28:27 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.122.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:28:35 it might be the state of the art, but i think the state of the art could be advanced by using salza2. 17:28:40 Ah. 17:30:21 *lichtblau* is using a weird forked version of that thing himself 17:31:29 one main bug in the version on cl.net is that it uses latin1 or utf8 or something when it should always use cp432, so don't depend on umlauts and that sort of thing, otherwise it should be mostly usable. 17:32:04 austinh [~austinh@c-24-21-81-46.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:33:14 There are amazing little differences between between zip writers, which can be a bit annoying, but basic stuff tends to work. 17:34:11 there's a flag you can set in zip which tells it you have utf8 17:34:13 <_3b`> are there any other .zip libs? 17:34:25 jmbr_ [~jmbr@156.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:34:26 *_3b`* would have preferred something with a different license 17:34:26 -!- jmbr_ [~jmbr@156.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:34:27 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:34:50 foom: yes, but back when I tried that, hardly any zip reader out there understood it. Perhaps the situation has improved a little, but I'm not very optimistic on that. 17:35:32 back then, the newest english-language version of winzip supported it, other winzip versions didn't, and no non-winzip software did. Big disappointment. 17:35:46 jmbr_ [~jmbr@156.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:35:49 -!- jmbr_ [~jmbr@156.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:36:29 jmbr_ [~jmbr@156.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:36:29 most stuff at least supports zip64 extensions these days. :) 17:36:37 in those rough-and-tumble 2000s 17:36:46 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@156.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:36:52 -!- jmbr_ [~jmbr@156.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:37:18 -!- lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:37:24 jmbr_ [~jmbr@156.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:37:37 *lichtblau* wouldn't mind changing the license 17:37:54 -!- jmbr_ [~jmbr@156.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:38:08 -!- revel0__ [~revel0@212.88.117.162] has left #lisp 17:38:15 jmbr_ [~jmbr@156.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:39:49 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-253-204.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 17:39:49 -!- jmbr_ [~jmbr@156.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:39:55 zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.83.121] has joined #lisp 17:40:49 jmbr_ [~jmbr@156.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:41:19 -!- jmbr_ [~jmbr@156.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:41:38 lichtblau: what's the license now? 17:44:13 gz` [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 17:44:40 lichtblau: since you're here, is there any way to get finer grained control over cxml serialization than the :canonical argument? 17:44:41 jmbr_ [~jmbr@156.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:45:02 For instance, to specify that certain elements should be emitted with no extra whitespace 17:45:08 bakkdoor_ [~bakkdoor@xdslck017.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 17:45:08 -!- jmbr_ [~jmbr@156.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:45:52 -!- bakkdoor_ [~bakkdoor@xdslck017.osnanet.de] has left #lisp 17:46:12 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.83.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:47:16 jmbr_ [~jmbr@156.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:47:22 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:48:14 zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.83.121] has joined #lisp 17:49:01 moocow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 17:49:46 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:52:28 -!- Komi [Komi@62.32.131.169] has quit [] 17:52:33 -!- abend [~alx@delta.muted.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:53:13 -!- cinch [~cinch@85-127-117-50.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Changing host] 17:53:13 cinch [~cinch@unaffiliated/cinch] has joined #lisp 17:54:34 tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:23 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:55:45 moah [~gnu@dslb-092-073-077-136.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:56:32 abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 17:56:38 All this time we've been worrying about McClim apps working well together, when all we really needed to do was set up an AppStore and tell you that you don't really need that! 17:57:00 (I was imagining an epub reading app based on closure) 17:57:45 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:57:45 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.83.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:58:43 -!- varjag [~eugene@100.55.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:58:47 zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.83.121] has joined #lisp 17:59:23 -!- tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:00:52 dfox [~dfox@r3ah61.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 18:00:53 -!- Fade [~fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:04:13 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.83.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:05:12 -!- nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:05:23 zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.83.121] has joined #lisp 18:05:36 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-164-91.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 18:06:07 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-101-193.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire.] 18:06:27 hello. i am using slime/sbcl for a while now, being very happy with it, 18:09:37 varjag [~eugene@100.55.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 18:10:05 what do i have to read/google-for to understand how symbols are shared between sbcl threads (doing a compile command in slime allows to access to the repls for new generated data/symbols - i like that very much, but i would like to really use that) - for a non computer-science student (just a physicist doing some simulations)? 18:10:20 nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has joined #lisp 18:11:29 trebor_dki: interned symbols are a global resource. 18:11:50 trebor_dki: special variable bindings have thread semantics described in the sbcl manual. 18:12:25 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.83.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:16:25 Fade [fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has joined #lisp 18:24:37 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-101-193.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 18:24:52 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@rrcs-97-77-55-50.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:27:45 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-185-84.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:28:47 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-121-67.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 18:30:04 -!- dabd [~dabd@gtkdbio.inesc-id.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:31:00 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 18:31:36 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@123.80-203-140.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: lnostdal] 18:32:55 abend [~alx@67.136.131.11] has joined #lisp 18:36:20 eugu [~Miranda@212.1.246.237] has joined #lisp 18:36:37 rread_ [~rread@c-24-130-52-79.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:37:00 daniel_ [~daniel@p5082CE21.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:37:10 omg, trying to explain ppl from #java to explain me some glitches of java metaprogramming and reflection, and what i want to do is really stressful 18:38:02 -!- Fade [fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:38:08 One way to relax is talking about CL here with your supportive #lisp friends. 18:38:28 -!- daniel__ [~daniel@p5082FC2A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:38:54 *TDT* notices the direct hint :) 18:39:11 Fade [fade@coruscant.deepsky.com] has joined #lisp 18:39:52 -!- rread [~rread@nat/sun/x-blgyxmhgmiwyneei] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:39:52 -!- rread_ is now known as rread 18:39:59 yes, but i need to do some stuff in java, and for sure i want to save some typing, but for #java folks that's "why you want do that" 18:41:37 thank god nobody ever asks that on #lisp 18:41:45 no, wait... 18:44:09 KevinDHaX0r [~chatzilla@74-44-77-112.dsl1-field.roch.ny.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 18:44:16 $() 18:44:21 => () 18:44:25 any lisp bots on. 18:46:03 Possibly two or three, but we don't run evalbots here. 18:46:27 because. duh. 18:47:47 lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has joined #lisp 18:51:19 -!- KevinDHaX0r [~chatzilla@74-44-77-112.dsl1-field.roch.ny.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.6/20100625231939]] 18:53:40 ... And I see all three bots, good. 18:54:24 phew, another leet attack weathered. 18:54:39 heh 18:56:37 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.145.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:58:22 meanburrito920 [~john@unaffiliated/meanburrito920] has joined #lisp 18:58:29 -!- meanburrito920 [~john@unaffiliated/meanburrito920] has left #lisp 18:59:46 -!- lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:00:38 jan247 [~jan247@120.28.102.74] has joined #lisp 19:00:38 -!- jan247 [~jan247@120.28.102.74] has quit [Changing host] 19:00:38 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 19:01:30 -!- Snamich [~Snamich@166.189.101.119] has quit [Quit: Snamich] 19:03:01 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:04:22 -!- splittist [~David@30-245.62-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: The excitement is too much for me] 19:04:27 -!- dysinger [~dysinger@c-24-20-159-240.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: dysinger] 19:05:18 nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has joined #lisp 19:08:02 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 19:09:53 loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has joined #lisp 19:11:59 folks, would you recommend common lisp or closure for writing web + xmpp project? 19:12:24 you mean clojure? 19:12:49 anyway, in this channel you'll get Common Lisp 19:13:25 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:13:29 (... "closure" is a web browser, "clozure" is a consultancy with their own common lisp implementation, "clojure" is some java thing with weird syntax, and "cloxure" is likely to be taken soon if it hasn't been already.) 19:13:54 no, closure is a thing around a function! 19:14:01 er, clojure, sorry :) 19:14:51 (I know, I'm just more used to typing closure as the "thing around a function" 19:14:51 *_3b`* wonders if it would be worth trying to think up a project to call 'clothier' 19:14:53 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.148.170.2] has joined #lisp 19:15:42 _3b`: Something for making dress patterns? 19:16:07 OK then, I'll ask my question differently. Are there good ("practical") web frameworks/libraries for CL? 19:16:24 Or the avatar appearance editor for a virtual world type arrangement? 19:16:29 there's hunchentoot, the web server 19:16:33 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-179-46-211.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:16:55 We could mention lisp-on-lines, but that's more drewc's thing. 19:17:01 and the whole bunch of frameworks which no one uses except the authors 19:17:13 And I'm not sure how much "web framework" nature it partakes of these days. 19:17:17 <_3b`> isn't lol deprecated in favor of ftw these days anyway? 19:17:35 Oh, probably. 19:17:36 loxs: Not that I've seen. 19:17:45 ok, yet another way to ask my question..... Are you doing web in CL :) 19:17:58 loxs: I am doing web in CL. I don't use a framework. 19:18:15 loxs: I use hunchentoot and some functions on top of its low-level request/response handling functions. 19:18:15 ... I'm -so- tempted to say "no, but Alex Plotnick is", but that's the wrong web. 19:18:21 boo 19:18:33 What? 19:18:59 in fact what am I going to do is not exactly web. The web part is smaller. The main part will be XMPP 19:19:25 and Python is starting to become a bit boring for me :) 19:19:37 *Xach* waits for nyef joke re python 19:19:38 *_3b`* downloaded an xmpp lib once, does that count? 19:20:16 i used cl-xmpp once or twice 19:20:23 ... Okay, so as not to disappoint Xach, "debugging the python compiler for SBCL is getting annoying, I can see why it'd be boring for you." 19:20:27 wasn't impressed 19:20:39 I got the basics of cl-xmpp going sufficiently for my needs. 19:20:46 had to listen to google talk stuff for a day or two. 19:21:12 *Xach* had a plan to wire that together with postmodern and hunchentoot, hasn't found the time 19:22:23 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:22:24 I tried *really* hard to like clojure, but despite rhicky's claims of an uber efficient immutable vector implementation, it's horrible, (just see how it creates a vector from a seq :)), and having to forward define functions, and the oh WHAT? interpretation of generic functions, and why can i seemingly apply any object like a function causing mysterious bugs in my code, it didn't actually change my life. 19:22:44 btbngr: Wrong channel. 19:22:57 lnostdal [~lnostdal@123.80-203-140.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 19:23:00 oops :) 19:23:15 and what do you guys think about Erlang? :) 19:23:38 ... "I'm really hesitant about Erlang"? 19:23:39 *stassats* thinks that it exists somewhere there 19:24:22 er, it's a lang 19:27:21 it not only exists. It's the language my database is written in 19:27:41 CouchDB 19:28:13 jajcloz [~jaj@2002:4855:eb9a:0:219:e3ff:fe02:96b8] has joined #lisp 19:29:05 *Xach* is a little sad that his quicklisp tweets go out to an audience of one 19:29:13 :) 19:29:32 Xach, what are they about? 19:29:44 how awesome quicklisp is? 19:29:48 I could be your second follower :) 19:29:58 (is that another language?) 19:30:08 no 19:30:31 loxs: They are about quicklisp news. quicklisp will be a way to get a lot of CL libraries quickly & easily. 19:30:37 oh yes. someday. 19:30:37 pers [~user@227.sub-75-220-187.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 19:30:47 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:30:56 -!- pers [~user@227.sub-75-220-187.myvzw.com] has left #lisp 19:33:14 -!- symbole [~chatzilla@h-69-3-39-78.nycmny83.static.covad.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.6/20100625231939]] 19:34:04 -!- Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-121-67.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:35:12 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 19:35:34 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-49-76.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 19:35:57 -!- Salamander__ is now known as Salamander 19:36:18 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-164-91.vodafone.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:36:35 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-179-46-211.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:31 xach, i have been trying to follow what youre doing with quicklisp, but there was one thing you didnt mention. 19:37:56 Just one? 19:37:57 who is going to give all those existing libraries a rating? 19:38:25 moah: Not sure, but it should be done. 19:38:49 so that hunchentoot thing is the "de-facto standard" web server for lisp applications? 19:39:23 loxs: it's pretty widely used. 19:39:42 in linux distributions, you havve all those hundreds and thousands of packagers, who resolve and manage dependencies between all the packeges. 19:39:45 It ain't perfect, but it works well for a lot of situations. 19:40:00 moah: I guess it's fortunate for me that CL has only hundreds. 19:40:28 moah: and that dependencies can be mechanically extracted. 19:41:05 (mostly) 19:41:06 and how bad is CL for doing concurrent stuff? 19:41:15 yre you gonna setup a kind of "repository" where all tested packages can be downloaded from? 19:41:40 moah: "tested" is a stretch, but yes. 19:42:57 <_3b`> loxs: it does normal threaded stuff about as well as most languages 19:44:59 _3b`, and how about asynchronous stuff and "lightweight processes" like in Erlang? 19:45:00 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:46:10 luis: around? 19:46:49 <_3b`> not sure what you mean by asynchronous stuff (there is iolib for non-blocking IO), and most lisps just use OS threads, so not really competition for erlang there 19:47:33 <_3b`> there have been a few attempts at erlang=like libraries for CL, not sure if any of them ever got usable though 19:48:11 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 19:48:12 yeah, I'm talking about non-blocking IO 19:48:50 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:05 -!- callen [~callen@unaffiliated/callen] has left #lisp 19:51:47 _3b`: otoh, if you're willing to go with a thin layer over CPS (like node.js and scala do), it's not too bad either, just not natively supported. 19:52:00 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-12.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:53:32 loxs: there's various libraries for 'portably' doing different kinds of concurrency, including stm, erlang-style message passing, go/newsqueak-style channels, and good ol' lock-and-pray. 20:02:14 Fare: i've begun hacking some sort of make replacement. 20:02:59 srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 20:03:11 lhz: rock on 20:07:37 ono, not another one. :( 20:09:15 it is my second one (the first being exclusive for sbcl), but yeah, the feeling of vain is in every line of code. 20:11:42 ysph [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:11:43 pers [~user@227.sub-75-220-187.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 20:15:25 -!- loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:16:29 Komi [Komi@62.32.135.78] has joined #lisp 20:17:59 clhs defsetf 20:18:00 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defset.htm 20:19:38 rrice [~rrice@oh-67-76-18-254.sta.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:47 -!- rrice [~rrice@oh-67-76-18-254.sta.embarqhsd.net] has left #lisp 20:20:47 Ah, lovely. The old "lack of explicit permission for the user is permission to deny for the implementor". 20:20:54 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 20:21:34 I'm not sure I understand why it's a warning and not a style-warning. 20:22:15 -!- fda314925 [~fda314925@211.239.124.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:23:25 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:24:05 Well, at least the "fix" is easy, "just" add the ignore-warnings flag to build-order. 20:24:05 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 20:24:58 -!- cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: .] 20:25:34 -!- tayloj [~tayloj@indigo-15.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:25:35 tayloj1 [~tayloj@indigo-15.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 20:26:01 francogrex [~user@109.130.85.38] has joined #lisp 20:26:10 cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 20:26:54 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:29:04 -!- alec [~aberryman@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:30:00 -!- sjbach [~sjbach__@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:30:01 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:30:28 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:30:56 dabd [~dabd@a85-139-99-67.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 20:31:11 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 20:31:24 -!- dcrawford [~dcrawford@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:31:49 lispm [~lispm@d176208.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #lisp 20:32:05 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 20:32:50 dcrawford_ [~dcrawford@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 20:32:50 dcrawford [~dcrawford@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 20:33:07 -!- lispm [~lispm@d176208.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:33:52 Lis [~Lis@business-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:59 -!- dcrawford_ [~dcrawford@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:34:09 sepult`` [~user@xdsl-87-79-84-161.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:34:53 -!- tayloj1 [~tayloj@indigo-15.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:35:00 The first version of mod_ecl is released. https://sourceforge.net/projects/mod-ecl/files/ One of the main programmers and one other guy from ecl helped me a lot. 20:35:08 -!- dcrawford [~dcrawford@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:36:00 -!- Lis [~Lis@business-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:36:28 -!- sepult` [~user@xdsl-87-79-183-42.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:36:50 -!- homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-183-42.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:37:12 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:38:24 -!- Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:38:47 Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 20:40:10 Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has joined #lisp 20:41:47 alec [~aberryman@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 20:42:33 potatishandlarn [potatishan@c-b21e337c-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 20:44:37 billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:44:52 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:45:15 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.85.38] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:45:39 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:46:26 sjbach [~sjbach__@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 20:46:38 -!- btbngr [~Matt@smorge2.force9.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:46:48 Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 20:47:13 -!- alec [~aberryman@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:47:44 -!- foom [~jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:50:35 -!- Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:52:14 Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-17-38.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:52:33 foom [~jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 20:52:42 alec [~aberryman@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 20:53:27 baggles [~bill@craftsmanltd.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:53:32 -!- baggles [~bill@craftsmanltd.co.uk] has left #lisp 20:53:57 nyef: can you think of a reason why we wouldn't allocate unboxed (and code ?) pages from the end of the dynamic space? 20:55:45 On gencgc? 20:55:57 right. 20:56:09 If there was a gap earlier? 20:56:45 what does it matter if there's a gap, though? 20:59:45 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@g229070206.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 21:00:20 got the skeleton (ie stub actions, no file md5, no substituion/var support etc) http://paste.lisp.org/display/112279 comments welcome :) 21:00:29 -!- eugu [~Miranda@212.1.246.237] has quit [Quit: eugu] 21:00:46 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #lisp 21:01:02 If there's a gap, it might take the opportunity to fill it? 21:01:17 Edward__ [edward@ARennes-299-1-89-165.w92-159.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:02:10 right, that's probably what happens right now. My question is if there's any reason not to do otherwise. 21:02:12 nyef: no dice on the powermac g5. I thought it might come back to life with a new battery, but I think the PSU is hosed :( 21:02:19 slyrus: Aww. 21:02:51 I can get a shell on a g5, but it probably runs free or open. 21:02:58 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 21:03:26 *nyef* has a g5, but it runs linux, and has no built-in wireless. 21:03:54 The point, though, was that slyrus was trying to resurrect his g5, and if it worked was offering to send it to me. 21:03:55 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:04:41 pkhuong: Heap fragmentation is one possible answer... But I also don't understand the generation_alloc_start_page() logic anyway. 21:04:43 *lichtblau* had problems when not returning "freeish" pages in order of increasing addresses 21:04:58 but presumably those would be fixable with sufficient investigation 21:05:33 -!- HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:07:37 dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-114-116.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:08:01 I've been having enough trouble with GC bugs as it is, I'm not about to try monkeying with policy as well. 21:10:03 lichtblau: k. I was hoping that growing boxed from the beginning and unboxed from the end wouldn't be too bad; we'll see. 21:10:05 At least, not until my local tree is stable again. 21:10:36 -!- sellout [~greg@212.234.38.214] has quit [Quit: sellout] 21:10:48 -!- bandu [kvirc@pool-71-164-233-190.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:10:49 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:14:36 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 21:15:55 calardin [~user@unaffiliated/calardin] has joined #lisp 21:16:01 bandu [kvirc@pool-71-164-233-190.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:13 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 21:19:11 Is there any way to find out what object a finalizer is associated with? I am trying to track down ; Error calling finalizer #: 21:19:11 ; # 21:19:56 <_3b`> is the closure in the backtrace inspectable with slime? 21:20:16 LiamH: Associate each finalizer with a description of the object in question? (it can't be the object itself, as that would prevent the finalizer from running.) 21:20:22 _3b`: I don't think so 21:20:55 (By the time the finalizer runs, the object is gone.) 21:21:08 nyef: How do I do that? 21:21:40 all I see is the address 21:23:46 coyo|pingout [kvirc@pool-71-164-233-190.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:24:09 Well, you start with the object, go through the finalizer table looking for the associated closure, then stick the closure into a hash-table or other mapping to look up the description. 21:24:24 nyef: OK 21:24:27 This is just off the top of my head, from having looked at the finalizer stuff recently for some reason. 21:24:32 There may be a better way. 21:24:52 any way that works is good for debugging purposes 21:25:29 On the flipside, you know you shouldn't rely on finalizers, right? 21:25:36 tayloj [~tayloj@cpe-67-248-22-159.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:25:48 nyef: no, I don't know that. 21:25:59 nyef: Why not? Is it an SBCL thing or a "finalizers considered harmful" thing? 21:26:21 It's a "finalizers considered unreliable" thing. 21:26:24 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-228-233.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:26:38 -!- bandu [kvirc@pool-71-164-233-190.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:26:44 especially that we have macros and unwind-protect for scoped resource allocation/deallocation 21:26:53 You don't know when, or -if- they're going to go off, just that it'll be some point after the object becomes collected. 21:26:59 nyef: unreliable in that they could run when they shouldn't (bad) or that they won't run when they should (tolerable)? 21:27:31 Basically, they're a bandage, not a real fix. 21:27:47 LiamH: they'll never trigger early. 21:27:48 pkhuong: They seem to be a pretty nice way to deal with resource deallocation for external objects, though, without forcing you to keep them within the scope of an u-p 21:27:54 nyef: If the issue is solely that the object has been collected, then I've accounted for that (I hope). 21:27:57 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75429a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:28:12 sykopomp: 80%. 21:28:17 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:28:18 pkhuong: GSLL used to use unwind-protects... it was ugly. 21:28:30 <_3b`> sykopomp: not as the primary way, unless you are sure you don't need to worry about running out 21:28:33 sykopomp: Again, you have no guarantee as to when, or -if- they will be called. 21:29:27 nyef: My assumption is that they make the same guarantees as a regular garbage collector, but they allow me to hook up foreign objects to the Lisp GC, in a way. 21:29:38 nyef: except pkhuong has just said that they'll never trigger early, which would be the major problem in my view. 21:30:02 LiamH: they would be useless if they did; they're just unreliable. 21:30:12 _3b`: I also have (had?) a system for doing it with an actual resource manager, if you actually have a reason to worry about those foreign objects. 21:30:15 triggering late or not at all is not so much of a problem 21:30:41 -!- srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.6/20100625231939]] 21:30:48 sykopomp: it depends on the resource... If you're only leaking memory, it's *usually* not too bad. 21:31:23 pkhuong: Well, what I use them for are things like textures, audio samples, etc. 21:32:32 so a texture for a particular object will stay loaded until the object gets collected (which works fine for the way I use it) 21:32:56 sykopomp: Just hope that's not purely for on-card textures, where you -can- run out the memory. 21:33:09 nyef: exactly my thought (: 21:33:53 nyef: I also have a resource manager for when you want to do more than just quick messing around. 21:34:30 They're a bit of belt-and-braces (suspenders?) for things like file descriptors, for example. You literally can't leak an FD under normal operations (because the normal use is with-open-file), but having a finalizer means that there's still a chance to clean up if you do.) 21:34:34 -!- moah [~gnu@dslb-092-073-077-136.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 21:34:56 lvillani [~lvillani@fedora/lvillani] has joined #lisp 21:36:33 tomatoMaan [~tomatoMan@dslb-088-065-187-076.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:37:18 mhd [~mhd@c-76-118-198-68.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:37:20 -!- tomatoMaan [~tomatoMan@dslb-088-065-187-076.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 21:40:54 Just to confirm: the error I'm seeing is from my programming error, and not from the finalizer somehow running twice and doing a double free, right? 21:41:48 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:41:50 -!- christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:43:33 christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:16 Right, the finalizer literally -can't- do a double free. 21:44:40 LiamH: unless you registered two finalisers on two different objects that free the same address. 21:44:49 It's called after the object has been freed, and can't resurrect it. 21:45:11 pkhuong: right, that possibility I'm investigating now. I think that might have happened. 21:48:02 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 21:48:21 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:49:40 badipod [~badipod@d110-32-130-188.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:49:40 -!- badipod [~badipod@d110-32-130-188.sun800.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 21:49:40 badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 21:55:41 LiamH: To check that, periodically look over the finalizer list for duplicate weak-pointer-values. 21:56:18 nyef: OK 21:57:49 peddie__ [~peddie@adsl-99-60-3-15.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:58:05 If you foreign-free a struct, does it recursively free memory from pointers in slots? 21:58:54 LiamH: no. that'd be broken. 21:59:22 OK, good. That's what I had assumed. 21:59:23 -!- peddie_ [~peddie@adsl-99-22-93-35.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:00:13 -!- cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:02:59 cmsimon [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 22:05:19 meanburrito920 [~john@unaffiliated/meanburrito920] has joined #lisp 22:07:09 -!- blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:07:58 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 22:08:06 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:11:55 *nyef* just had the horrible, horrible thought of protecting function-call and function entry by means of pseudo-atomic. 22:12:38 -!- meanburrito920 [~john@unaffiliated/meanburrito920] has left #lisp 22:12:54 nyef: why? 22:13:00 Reliable backtraces. 22:13:12 k. 22:13:43 The code in build_fake_control_stack_frames() uses a heuristic to determine how to create the new frames. 22:13:48 minion: advice on heuristic? 22:13:48 #11953: Of course, this is a heuristic, which is a fancy way of saying that it doesn't work. 22:14:15 So it breaks down on tail-calls or if there are stack arguments. 22:14:37 safe points! safe points! ;) 22:14:49 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@83.222.190.201] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:15:36 Heh. 22:15:36 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:16:01 I don't want to throw safe-points in as a requirement for this. 22:16:31 It's already going to be nasty. 22:16:43 -!- prip_ [~foo@host235-24-dynamic.43-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:18:45 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:22:15 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-179-46-211.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:24:07 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 22:25:28 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 22:26:01 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:26:12 -!- nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:27:59 -!- pers [~user@227.sub-75-220-187.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:29:40 prip_ [~foo@host163-125-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 22:30:13 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:30:51 -!- christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:30:59 christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 22:31:17 palter [~palter@166.137.136.187] has joined #lisp 22:32:37 -!- Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Planned down time ^^] 22:34:36 -!- dfox [~dfox@r3ah61.net.upc.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:38:16 *Xach* wins 22:38:39 -!- varjag [~eugene@100.55.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:39:40 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-179-46-211.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:43:04 Hunh. The actual ideal mechanism for this would actually be a trace-table lookup. 22:43:42 That's impressively unfortunate. 22:44:31 Hmm. I can think of some libraries that are sbcl-exclusive (sb-vector-io comes to mind). can you think of notable libraries that are similarly single-implementation things? 22:44:40 *Xach* knows of some LW-specific weitzware, too 22:44:52 -!- badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:45:09 I don't know about "notable", but my stuff tends to be SBCL-only. 22:45:17 There's some ACL stuff, but that's mostly franzware, I guess. 22:51:44 duh, right. franz has a lot of stuff on github. 22:53:13 -!- palter [palter@clozure-E30EA148.mycingular.net] has quit [Input/output error] 22:53:13 -!- palter [~palter@166.137.136.187] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:53:13 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:56:06 abugosh [~Adium@pool-74-103-38-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:57:36 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:01:55 -!- abugosh [~Adium@pool-74-103-38-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:02:32 -!- ysph [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:03:18 -!- dabd [~dabd@a85-139-99-67.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:04:21 abugosh [~Adium@pool-74-103-38-231.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:05:02 MAslan2010 [~chatzilla@74-44-77-112.dsl1-field.roch.ny.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 23:05:14 Any Lisp bots here. 23:05:21 I am asking for my brother. 23:05:56 MAslan2010: yes. 23:06:10 what is the bot. and how is it used. 23:06:10 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:07:18 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:07:30 #() 23:07:33 $() 23:07:35 =>() 23:07:44 MAslan2010: nothing like that here. 23:07:58 oh. Xach how is the bot here accessed. 23:08:19 or r they no bots that evaluate Lisp code here. 23:08:28 bigjust` [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 23:08:35 my brother kevin wants to learn Lisp and likes to use IRC. 23:09:04 he is having some trouble joining your group. I don't know why 23:09:08 -!- NNshag [user@lns-bzn-21-82-64-111-147.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:10:04 -!- bigjust [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:10:26 is he banned from here as well as from (). 23:11:46 bigjust`` [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 23:12:23 MAslan2010: there is no bot like that here. 23:12:34 thnx. 23:13:15 -!- bigjust` [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:15:03 via [~via@ip98-176-221-44.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:17:08 -!- sepult`` [~user@xdsl-87-79-84-161.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:19:59 homie [~user@xdsl-87-79-84-161.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:20:26 -!- xan_ [~xan@131-46-207-85.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:21:18 jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:33 NNshag [user@lns-bzn-30-82-253-154-4.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 23:27:29 @seen mrkoolnerd 23:28:10 bye. 23:28:13 -!- MAslan2010 [~chatzilla@74-44-77-112.dsl1-field.roch.ny.frontiernet.net] has left #lisp 23:28:18 MAslan2010 [~chatzilla@74-44-77-112.dsl1-field.roch.ny.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 23:28:38 Dodek [dodek@jest.pro] has joined #lisp 23:29:03 pinterface [~pinterfac@174-30-74-223.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:32:02 anyone here who is willing to teach my brother about macros? 23:32:20 MAslan2010: http://gigamonkeys.com/book/ will do a pretty good job 23:32:35 thank you. 23:33:22 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-234-1-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:33:44 Is this channel for all dialects of lisp? 23:34:07 Or is there a common lisp specific channel? 23:34:14 this is for common lisp. 23:34:55 When is the first argument of a list not considered to be a function? 23:35:50 SegFaultAX: when it's a macro or a special form, or the s-expression isn't evaluated. 23:36:05 SegFaultAX: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/03_abab.htm has some info 23:36:19 phadthai: So then is out a keyword in lisp? 23:36:27 Sorry pkhuong 23:36:28 hmm..for lisp images, executable creation, or heck even cl-launch type scripts, how can we deal with command line arguments? Say I have an image called foo, and I want argument options like "-c 5 -v" to be passed to the function that's run when the core is resumed. 23:36:43 SegFaultAX: what are you trying to do? 23:36:46 TDT: cl-launch has a standardized interface to command-line arguments. 23:36:59 TDT: each implementation provides that info in its own way. 23:37:13 pkhuong: (with-open-file (out filename :direction :output:if-exists :supersede) 23:37:36 SegFaultAX: with-open-file is a macro, and its first argument is not evaluated normally. 23:37:42 SegFaultAX: see the documentation of with-open-file. 23:37:47 Xach: Ah, I see. Thanks, I'll look up the details from cl-launch since I'm at the page already. 23:37:59 Xach: Where can I find the documentation? 23:38:14 SegFaultAX: http://l1sp.org/cl/with-open-file 23:38:15 Xach: Today is day 1 of lisp for me. 23:38:41 SegFaultAX: welcome aboard. enjoy the complimentary pistachios. 23:38:45 Xach: I am a veteran programmer but stricly imperative until today :) 23:39:18 With CL you'll have a great opportunity to learn declarative programming! 23:39:35 Xach: So macros get the entire list? 23:40:03 Xach: Instead of the first element being treated normally? 23:40:08 -!- roygbiv [~JohnRambo@pdpc/supporter/active/roygbiv] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:40:25 TDT: there are several libraries for parsing cli args 23:40:33 i.e. more thanjust accessing 23:40:53 Does lisp have a cpan-esque equiv? 23:40:53 SegFaultAX: macros receive their arguments unevaluated and can evaluate things differently by returning new code. 23:41:16 Xach: So native support for meta programming? 23:41:19 SegFaultAX: not quite. there are several efforts along those lines. 23:41:30 p_l: Hmm, ok, I'll try to find those - my google searches haven't come up with anything yet 23:41:39 SegFaultAX: I don't really know what that means, sorry. 23:41:59 Xach: Code that writes code. 23:42:09 Sounds about right. 23:42:20 Xach: As a core language feature? 23:42:28 SegFaultAX: http://quicklisp.org/ has links to a few different things that are meant to provide easy access to CL software. 23:42:37 Xach: I am loving lisp more with each passing moment. 23:42:42 TDT: one of first hits: http://common-lisp.net/gitweb?p=projects/qitab/command-line-arguments.git;a=tree 23:42:44 quicklisp itself aims to do that, but it's not done yet. 23:42:45 TDT: I haven't used it, but this may prove usefull: http://www.cliki.net/getopt 23:43:20 SegFaultAX: Common Lisp is my favorite Lisp. I think it is super-awesome. 23:43:22 http://www.cl-user.net/asp/libs/getopt <--- another one 23:43:28 Xach: Obligatory http://xkcd.com/224/ 23:43:59 Thanks Komi and p_l, not sure what you were searching p_l, I wasn't so fortunate in my searches :) I did read up on sbcl and lispworks specific stuff though 23:44:35 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 23:44:54 TDT: I hit "common lisp command line argument" in google then just wrote "arguments" into cl-user.net :) 23:45:02 Xach: What do you do most of your work in? 23:45:59 SegFaultAX: i use SBCL on Linux and MacOS X the most. i use emacs and slime for it. 23:46:01 p_l: heh just used "Common lisp command line arguments" here, and clbuild showed up but nothing from cl-user.net. Ah well, got the information now at least :) 23:46:24 Xach: SBCL? 23:46:42 SegFaultAX: Steel Bank Common Lisp, one of the better open source implementations 23:46:54 SegFaultAX: sbcl produces really fast code. i use it to generate thousands of images per day. 23:46:59 (I'd say the best, even, with CCL being the only competitor) 23:47:16 Should I not be learning on GNU CL? 23:48:16 I just got whatever was in apt to get started, I didn't think it would matter at first. 23:49:01 -!- MAslan2010 [~chatzilla@74-44-77-112.dsl1-field.roch.ny.frontiernet.net] has left #lisp 23:49:04 GCL is not a good implementation to use. 23:49:08 GNU CLISP is not too shabby. 23:49:13 SBCL is the bees knees. 23:49:27 kwertii [~kwertii@ResNet-33-228.resnet.ucsb.edu] has joined #lisp 23:49:28 CCL is also very nice, especially on OS X and windows. 23:49:42 Xach: I'll look into building that once I get a few more chapters under my belt. 23:49:53 SegFaultAX: definitely stay away from GCL 23:50:01 pkhuong: Unix and Linux only. 23:50:09 SegFaultAX: you can download binaries, you know? 23:50:21 Noted. Thanks for the tip. 23:50:28 CLISP is quite fine, but isn't as well supported here (less intersection between this community and CLISP users, I guess) 23:50:29 -!- Edward__ [edward@ARennes-299-1-89-165.w92-159.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 23:50:40 -!- abend [~alx@67.136.131.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:50:54 I'm not sure, but I think you'll find people equipped with commercial implementations speaking more often here than people using CLISP :) 23:51:00 That's what I got from apt, clisp. 23:51:05 Edward_ [edward@ARennes-299-1-89-165.w92-159.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:51:09 try getting sbcl 23:51:26 Ok scbl it is. Thanks again for the heads up all. 23:51:42 although debian and ubuntu often have old versions of SBCL. 23:52:05 Oh and sbcl is in the repo, nice! 23:52:28 pkhuong: Oh really? I'll just build it then. 23:53:00 *pinterface* pets clisp. There there, /I/ still like you. 23:53:04 minion: tell SegFaultAX about clbuild 23:53:04 SegFaultAX: the "unstable" repos usually have a more recent binary 23:53:04 SegFaultAX: direct your attention towards clbuild: clbuild is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 23:53:16 pinterface: btw, your perec tutorial is great :) 23:53:59 p_l: Thanks! 23:54:28 *p_l* is currently hovering between rucksack, perec+postgres or custom ORM 23:54:28 Maybe there is a SBCL ppa? 23:55:38 Does SCBL have a VM and JIT? Or does it compile to native? 23:56:07 It compiles to native code. 23:56:17 andreer: Win32 and elf? 23:56:24 PE rather. 23:56:29 SegFaultAX: there's an incremental compiler (close enough to what you might call JIT, except it simply compiles on the fly instead of waiting for later) and evaluator 23:56:38 SegFaultAX: that's independent of native code compilation. 23:56:53 But yes, you can get PE and ELF executables. 23:57:13 SegFaultAX: SBCL support on win32 is still rather unstable, CCL is quite stable otoh on win32/win64 (with some minor annoyances) 23:57:17 pkhuong: Sorry I meant that as a continuation of my first question. 23:57:19 MAslan2010 [~chatzilla@74-44-77-112.dsl1-field.roch.ny.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 23:57:39 How can I get my brother unbanned from #Lisp? He is having trouble getting on? 23:57:51 MAslan2010: what is his nickname? 23:57:54 p_l: That's just fine, I don't use or really even support windows. 23:58:01 KevinDHaX0r 23:58:09 -!- mhd [~mhd@c-76-118-198-68.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:58:12 -!- jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:58:12 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-179-46-211.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:58:27 he is using a computer at the library. 23:58:29 p_l: what annoyances? 23:58:42 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Xach 23:58:47 (i mostly use CCL on Win32) 23:58:51 CCL 1.5 on win64 often hangs on tab completion in emacs/slime 23:58:58 pmed me saying he got messaging saying he was banned. 23:59:01 it's fixed in trunk. 23:59:02 Komi: the fact that 32bit CCL crashes on win64 23:59:08 -!- Xach has set mode -bbb *!*@gateway/web/* *!*@cpe-76-172-28-85.socal.res.rr.com *!*55c89673@gateway/web/freenode/* 23:59:19 oh, well, no win64 here 23:59:24 hi 23:59:26 MAslan2010: ok. should be able to join now. 23:59:26 p_l: it doesn't _crash_; it just doesn't work. 23:59:28 -!- Xach has set mode -o Xach 23:59:44 KevinD_ [4a2c4d70@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.44.77.112] has joined #lisp