00:00:23 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-177-233.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:00:59 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441632.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: hugod] 00:02:18 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:02:18 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441632.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 00:02:20 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:02:22 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 00:02:39 -!- mejja [~user@c-14bee555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:06:29 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.148.170.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:06:29 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:07:28 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:44 Just lovely: call-out doesn't use LRAs. And there is thus a window of about two instructions during which the code object can be moved and the return address isn't in reg_LIP. 00:21:28 looks like the culprit isn't posix_spawn but CCL's run-program. 00:21:57 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:22:37 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:23:44 -!- manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:27:11 abugosh [~Adium@207-172-111-88.c3-0.tlg-ubr4.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:27:52 schoppenhauer: you could write something to that effect, I guess, using read-byte, write-byte and listen (or read-char, write-char and listen). 00:28:01 -!- ramus [~ramus@99.23.130.157] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:28:48 ramus [~ramus@99.23.130.157] has joined #lisp 00:29:34 pjb: write-byte is waiting 00:29:36 pjb! 00:29:51 -!- zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:30:36 I just found in-memory-streams in flexi-streams, but actually, they dont work with external programs ... sbcl complains that it "could not create a temporary file" ... 00:31:23 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 00:32:47 Argh! Right. I always believe that LISTEN works also on output streams... 00:36:42 -!- Joreji [~thomas@81-050.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:37:10 pjb: well I will use the most inefficient way ... I will write one byte and poll for output, if none comes, again, etc. 00:37:15 pjb: I hope this works ... 00:37:25 but should most of the time. its just inefficient but should be portable 00:38:16 -!- FareWell [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:38:35 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 00:42:34 schoppenhauer: I hear iolib wraps #+sbcl serve-event #+clisp socket-status, and so on. 00:43:02 schoppenhauer: so you could still write portable code with iolib, using under select or poll. 00:43:51 pjb: actually, I would like to use serve-event, but I cant find any documentation to it 00:45:31 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.92.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:48:38 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-107-213.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 00:51:01 mcc [~mike@ip68-104-164-151.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:18 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:51:50 pjb: and iolib adds a lot of stuff. actually, I am trying to get around some external library I would otherwise need by calling an external command. its not good to do that by adding a new one. 00:53:29 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:55:05 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483A8C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:56:40 Hrm. Or not... So how's the context getting trashed that way? 00:58:09 -!- silenius [~silenius@c-24-130-172-194.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:59:48 -!- rtra [~rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:59:49 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:00:57 silenius [~silenius@c-24-130-172-194.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:03:40 -!- abugosh [~Adium@207-172-111-88.c3-0.tlg-ubr4.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:06:25 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:07:47 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 01:09:47 davazp [~user@83.55.180.105] has joined #lisp 01:10:17 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:11:34 t0rrentday [~10336B72C@ns21004.ovh.net] has joined #lisp 01:11:40 -!- Guthur [~michael@host86-160-243-60.range86-160.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:11:41 10x Faster than p2p, secure, anon, movies tv music apps all free, http://www.t0rrentday.com now open for registration. 01:13:03 mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has joined #lisp 01:13:06 -!- t0rrentday [~10336B72C@ns21004.ovh.net] has quit [K-Lined] 01:13:14 hello 01:13:48 anyone around with experience w/ cxml/sax? 01:18:16 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.10/20100504093643]] 01:20:54 -!- mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:22:03 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:27:57 abugosh [~Adium@207-172-111-88.c3-0.tlg-ubr4.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 01:32:38 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@219-89-107-213.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 01:34:06 -!- cowhm [~cowhm@25.sub-97-47-208.myvzw.com] has quit [Quit: -a-] 01:34:19 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-107-213.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:34:46 jonathans [~jonathans@c-68-45-75-20.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:34:57 -!- jonathans is now known as Guest76466 01:35:22 -!- Guest76466 [~jonathans@c-68-45-75-20.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:45:13 -!- pinterface [~pinterfac@174-30-74-223.desm.qwest.net] has left #lisp 01:47:11 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:48:56 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.30.106] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:50:18 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:50:21 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:53:40 -!- AqD|Home [~AqD|Home@122-116-21-207.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:53:45 FareWell [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:58:06 -!- davazp [~user@83.55.180.105] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:59:28 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:00:14 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:00:44 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-123-143.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:01:46 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:01:46 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:03:25 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-177-233.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:06:14 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:07:33 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:07:42 -!- bigjust [~user@c-24-126-240-213.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:15:21 AqD|Home [~AqD|Home@122-116-21-207.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 02:17:05 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:17:05 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:17:18 toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:22:20 drewc`` [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:22:34 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@219-89-107-213.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:22:54 -!- barcon332 [~barcon332@208.89.210.254] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:23:04 barcon332 [~barcon332@208.89.210.254] has joined #lisp 02:23:44 -!- drewc` [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:23:45 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-61-90-103-175.revip.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:23:49 symbole [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:24:51 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:24:59 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:25:01 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:26:15 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 02:27:37 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-227-233-160.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:27:42 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Client Quit] 02:27:52 fe[nl]ix, ping 02:29:57 clbuild dumpcore slime is failing for me with asdf:missing-component, message 'component "slime" not found' 02:30:06 loading slime from clbuild works just fine, though 02:31:07 i can't start slime from emacs 02:31:19 it comes even bundled with debian 02:32:26 FareWell: fe[nl]ix is sleeping and I guess will do so for the next 4-5hours 02:33:23 ok 02:33:38 I wanted to discuss APIs for child reaping hooks. 02:33:56 hefner [~hefner@ppp-61-90-102-217.revip.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 02:34:14 and also for single-threaded vs multi-threaded behavior of some functions. 02:34:36 UNIX is a mess. 02:35:09 ramus: which version of ASDF are you using? How are you configuring it? 02:35:13 toast` [~toast`@c-71-231-102-232.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:35:54 What are you needing that stuff for over at ITA? 02:37:06 still my XCVB thing. 02:37:10 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:37:32 Now that I found CCL's run-program guilty of losing signals, I want to redo run-program properly 02:38:17 except what that means depends on the application's threading vs event-looping model. 02:38:35 FareWell: 2.003 02:41:33 -!- c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:42:57 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:43:50 ramus: did you configure it to find slime? You probably mean swank, btw. 02:44:30 haven't done configuration of any kind, was doing everything through clbuild 02:44:33 did something change lately? 02:46:39 not for the worse 02:46:47 if it worked before, it should still work 02:47:30 (slight exception: evaluating :pathname argument to defsystem) 02:47:38 (workaround: use #. ) 02:48:30 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:48:30 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:49:06 weird 02:49:15 shouldn't be any reason it's breaking, then 02:53:18 FareWell: by 'probably mean swank', do you mean as an argument for dumpcore? 02:54:01 I mean that SLIME is not the name of a valid ASDF system that I know of. 02:54:21 SWANK is the name of SLIME's CL support system. 02:54:27 that's what the error says, so it looks like there's something else at play here 02:54:48 ramus: can you paste.lisp.org a full error log? 02:55:13 gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 02:55:16 one second 02:58:15 http://paste.lisp.org/display/112132 02:58:25 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:58:25 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:00:52 so having both cl-swank and slime is not good ? 03:01:21 c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 03:02:19 sepult, uh? 03:03:07 ramus: who told you to dumpcore slime??? 03:03:29 that's how it's always worked-- did something change? 03:03:57 ramus: I don't follow clbuild, but that seems strange to me. 03:04:26 what is the intention? 03:05:29 to generate a core for sbcl for use inside emacs 03:06:00 on a side-note, M-x slime no longer works, so I still need to look into that 03:06:29 FareWell: Why not? 03:06:39 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:06:39 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:06:51 What's so strange about including swank into one's core? 03:08:24 well, it looks like dumpcore swank works in stead of dumpcore slime 03:08:37 i'm not sure why it started complaining now, though 03:08:42 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@125.236.55.34] has joined #lisp 03:09:31 mutatis mutandis 03:09:48 tcr: including swank is not strange -- trying to find-system "slime" when you should call find-system "swank" is strange. 03:09:57 asarch [~asarch@189.188.152.211] has joined #lisp 03:10:09 what's strange now is how it managed to work before 03:10:11 oh well 03:10:19 ramus: did either slime and/or clbuild change recently wrt to this behavior? 03:10:25 clbuild might have 03:10:30 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 03:10:30 there's this commit message: 03:10:33 try updating both 03:10:40 * Interpret arguments to recompile, dumpcore as systems, not projects 03:10:54 everything is up-to-date 03:11:46 -!- c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:11:47 so i think that clbuild change affected how to use dumpcore 03:12:00 google doesnt turn up anything about it, though 03:12:41 Do you understand what that commit entry means? 03:12:57 yeah 03:13:09 slime isn't a system, ergo dumpcore slime no longer works 03:13:16 Right 03:13:21 i don't think the documentation has been updated, though 03:13:23 leading to this confusion 03:13:30 anyone who uses cl-opengl? I'm wondering how to disable 3D for just 2D use 03:14:13 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-177-233.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:14:32 gzip4 [~xxx@78.108.73.250] has joined #lisp 03:15:42 -!- gzip4__ [~xxx@78.108.73.250] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:18:35 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:20:25 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:20:26 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:22:32 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-129-229.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 03:22:34 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-177-233.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:24:36 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:24:37 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-61-90-102-217.revip.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:25:06 hefner [~hefner@ppp-61-90-102-217.revip.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 03:25:33 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:27:36 Lis [~Lis@business-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 03:29:00 Well. I had a little chat in the ecl group, and they where kind enought to tell me what I am doing wrong. 03:29:01 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:33:07 Lis: what was it? 03:33:47 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@125.236.55.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:35:14 -!- mtd [~martin@ops-13.xades.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:35:30 mtd [~martin@ops-13.xades.com] has joined #lisp 03:38:52 -!- mgr [~mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:39:34 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 03:39:36 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@125.236.55.34] has joined #lisp 03:39:45 franki^ [~franki@unaffiliated/franki] has joined #lisp 03:43:59 -!- tmitt [seg@wizardly.us] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:44:20 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:44:22 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:50:06 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:50:53 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 03:51:29 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@ppp-58-8-45-99.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 03:51:37 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 03:53:00 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-177-233.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:55:08 Madsy [~madman@fu/coder/madsy] has joined #lisp 04:00:09 jhalogen [~jake@207-237-214-17.c3-0.80w-ubr2.nyr-80w.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 04:00:19 hello 04:01:06 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:01:06 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:01:33 when you intern a keyword using the intern function, you lose the ability to do (equal :|interned-keyword| :interned-keyword). anyone know a way around this? 04:03:39 *toast`* is still learning CL's intricate symbol rules 04:04:39 yes, this snafu has me at a loss. I can't compare keywords interned from strings to "regular" keywords. 04:04:42 jhalogen: By default, the reder upper-cases symbol names before interning them. 04:04:58 galabad [~root@cpe-76-189-138-28.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:05:04 yeah, true 04:05:15 but why would that affect equal's results? 04:05:46 beach: that's ok, i don't need case sensitivity. (equal) just doesn't consider a keyword with pipes to be equivalent to a keyword without them. 04:05:52 (let ((kw (intern "HELLO" :keyword))) (eq kw :hello)) 04:05:59 returns T 04:06:21 beach: oh it returns t if it's upcased first? lemmee try 04:07:20 jhalogen: Sure it does : (eq :|HELLO| :hello) => T 04:07:31 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:07:33 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:07:34 -!- AqD|Home [~AqD|Home@122-116-21-207.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: AqD|Home] 04:07:59 Beetny` [~Beetny@ppp118-208-38-148.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:08:14 beach: it does indeed. thanks 04:08:20 no problem 04:09:01 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:09:12 jhalogen: For completeness: (let ((kw (intern "hello" :keyword))) (eq kw :|hello|)) => T 04:09:45 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-123-143.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:10:21 Good morning everyone, by the way. 04:10:45 Morning beach. Good examples, btw. :) 04:10:50 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:11:04 redline6561: Thanks. I am a teacher. :) 04:11:27 beach: Wish I was one of your students. Somewhere in Europe IIRC? 04:11:28 sykopomp [~sykopomp@c-66-41-249-30.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:11:58 Yeah, Bordeaux. And that could be arranged. 04:13:29 beach: Really? Maybe when I'm done with undergrad next May I'll take you up on that... 04:14:13 redline6561: Sure, but tell me early, because there is a procedure to follow. 04:15:17 beach: I'll keep you posted. What would the context be, grad school? 04:15:51 redline6561: Yeah, our Masters program, and then a PhD if you do well. 04:16:09 a masters in lisp? 04:16:16 galabad: Not quite no. 04:16:49 galabad: But there is a research project to do at the end of 2 years, and that could *definitely* be Lisp related. 04:16:55 *tcr* was lucky enough to write his bachelor thesis about Lisp 04:17:38 sicp versus on lisp-which book would help one be a faster programmer? 04:18:00 I suggest to learn to touch-type fast 04:18:53 I learned dvorak to 50 wpm, but it didnt really speed up my programming 04:19:02 galabad: Usually people ask that question with s/faster/better/ 04:19:03 FareWell: ecl does only evaluate one expression at a time. 04:19:18 galabad: SICP is a book about building abstractions, but doesn't contain much details about what features to use, especially not of CL. 04:20:02 beach: you must be a good teacher. i believe you are the one that has answered most of my questions in the three years i've sporadically come to #lisp for help. 04:20:16 galabad: On Lisp is specifically about using CL macros to build DSLs by using a technique called "embedded languages". 04:20:25 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:20:25 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:20:32 thanks. 04:20:47 jhalogen: Good to hear. I serve some purpose then! 04:21:50 I read a study that lisp programmers are 10x faster than java or c programmers. I think I'm only 2 times as fast 04:22:06 I'm wondering how to get that other 8x 04:22:16 galabad: I would like the reference to that study if you have it. 04:22:19 It's amazing how Lisp-like you can program in bash 04:23:07 I wonder what happens if two threads call waitpid in parallel. 04:23:23 beach: Out of interest, do you have a URL with more information about studying informatics in Bordeaux and stuff? :s 04:23:27 tcr: shell is like dynamically scoped lisp 04:23:39 FareWell: concurrently? 04:23:46 franki^: I'll check. Hold on... 04:23:50 galabad: understanding how ratios work would be a good first step. 04:24:13 http://www.flownet.com/gat/papers/lisp-java.pdf 04:24:34 FareWell: If I remember correctly what Stelian was explaining to me, waitpid clears some internal OS state 04:24:54 franki^: http://dept-info.labri.fr/MASTER/ Only in French at the moment, but as soon as the teaching will be in English (very soon now), we will redo the site as well. 04:25:17 vmmenon [~vmmenon@c-67-183-8-193.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:25:42 beach: Thanks, let's see how far high school French and Google translate can get me. ;) 04:25:47 galabad: Oh, OK. I knew about that one, but had forgotten it. Thanks for reminding me. 04:25:54 FareWell: In a way that the call that happens to be executed first makes the second one invalid 04:25:56 -!- silenius [~silenius@c-24-130-172-194.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:26:02 franki^: Keep me posted! :) 04:26:14 tcr: that would be nice, otherwise I can see interesting race conditions. 04:26:51 the question is how do I write process-wait in a way that doesn't lead to race conditions, depending on other parts of the program also waiting for processes. 04:28:03 Yeah we discussed that on a way to dinner, I suggested a global lock-less fifo of some sorts but I cannot remember 04:28:08 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:28:33 Stelian probably has made up his mind how he would like to do it anyway :-) 04:29:25 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:30:11 tcr: are you in malaysia with him? 04:30:23 Yeah 04:30:50 are there lisp jobs in singapore? 04:31:06 Might be if we grow 04:31:29 great. what's your company url? 04:31:47 We do not have a website yet :-) 04:32:08 -!- ysph [~user@adsl-221-198-35.mgm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:32:19 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 04:32:40 check out hunchentoot 04:33:32 I think we're going to outsource the web stuff 04:39:48 what do you think of clojure vs CL? 04:41:22 Clojure's like a hip chick, CL like a MILF 04:41:47 tcr: a lock-free fifo, like a message queue? 04:42:04 haha 04:42:57 pkhuong: Yeah basically a control thread waitpid on OS processes, and stores a Lisp process onto that for lisp-threads to process-wait on that 04:43:20 or something like that anyway :-) I really can't remember and I'm not familiar with the stuff involved 04:47:37 Is there a function to convert this to a string: '(Mat 1:1    ,  ,  .) . Or, better yet, is there a function that will return everything after the second space as a string? 04:48:08 Why the - is that a list of symbols? 04:48:27 lat: Those are not the same, but the last problem can be solved by using position and subseq. 04:49:08 I'd think the reader barfs on 1:1 04:49:09 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.152.211] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:50:01 tcr, well, I want it to be a string. 04:50:21 Why is it not a string in the first place? 04:51:33 did you mean to use double quotes "..." instead of single quote? 04:52:04 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:52:13 '("Mat" "1:1" "") 04:52:26 badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 04:52:30 toast`: That's not how we reason in CL, and the use of double or single quotes is just what the printer uses to convert the Lisp object to a sequence of characters. 04:52:47 beach, the second space is not always in same number of characters from the beginning of the line. 04:53:02 lat: Line? What line? 04:53:15 Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:53:33 beach, I meant string. 04:53:51 lat: The CL function POSITION finds the position of a particular object in a sequence. 04:54:37 lat: What you have is not a string. 04:56:09 -!- Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 04:56:21 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.40.132] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:56:48 how would you call the transpose of tall and thin matrices? short and wide? 04:57:51 beach, I know it is not a string. That is why I asked if there is a function to convert it to a string. 04:58:18 tcr: requiring a thread to do all the waitpid'ing, in addition to forcing multithreading, causes "interesting" communication problems. 04:58:18 lat: But you didn't answer tcr's question. Why is it not a string in the first place? 04:58:35 beach, I'll read up on position. 04:58:43 lat: I.e., how was your object created? 05:01:17 FareWell: like? 05:02:21 tcr: how do you atomically do a transaction on the handled process database? 05:02:22 What happened to lisppaste? 05:02:31 how do you wait for a specific process to be finished? 05:02:36 Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 05:03:12 suddenly, your control thread can't just wait, it has to poll several sources of requests. 05:03:29 beach and tcr, I don't know why or how. Let me check to see what in really happening. And I'll get back. I'm still learning, but I've made good progress this past week. You guys have been a great help in pointing me in the right direction. Thanks for that! 05:03:31 yeah that true, I don't think you need a control thread 05:04:02 '(Mat 1:1    ,  , 05:04:14 does barf on 1:1 05:04:28 OR you could possibly survive if you make sure (how?) that only it will be waiting, and that you have locks protecting the shared datastructures. 05:04:42 galabad: no doubt it does. tcr was being rethorical. 05:04:47 (and you hold locks while creating a process) 05:04:54 galabad: I am pretty sure lat didn't try to type that to the REPL, but obtained the object in some other way, but we seem unable to find out in what way. 05:05:06 OR the control threads does the process creations 05:05:22 FareWell: Yeah 05:05:58 OR, all waiting is protected by a lock 05:06:09 -!- Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 05:08:21 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #lisp 05:08:42 putting it in double quotes didnt work in slime repl, but did work in inferior lisp, due to emacs character sets issues 05:09:10 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-61-90-102-217.revip.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: hefner] 05:09:46 FareWell: what's the issue again? pids being recycled? 05:10:09 pkhuong: not thread-safely wait for a process 05:10:14 s,not,to, 05:11:11 right, that would be the point of having a dedicated waiting thread; what's the shared datastructure representing? 05:11:19 pkhuong, recycled pids, race between process creation, registration and reaping 05:12:01 what's the race? 05:12:25 multiple threads and/or libraries trying to create subprocesses and wait for them with a variety of control models 05:13:22 ok, and the data structure are there to track...? 05:13:59 A waits for C1, B creates C2, C2 dies, A receives C2 pid, B tries to register C2, too late. 05:14:01 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 05:14:34 right, what I thought. 05:14:45 beach, tcr, and galabad, I have to take a break, but when I get back I'll tarball the whole project so you can see what I'm trying to do. That will simplify things a lot. 05:14:59 -!- jhalogen [~jake@207-237-214-17.c3-0.80w-ubr2.nyr-80w.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: jhalogen] 05:15:03 assuming there's a centralized wait() instead of individual waitpid()s so that all signals may be handled in a coherent and timely way 05:15:04 lat: something smaller than a tarball is more likely to get you help. 05:16:39 pkhuong, ok, I'll make it as small as possible. 05:18:38 -!- badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPod touch - http://colloquy.mobi] 05:18:57 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 05:20:01 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-78-34-195-15.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 05:22:31 -!- FareWell [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:27:37 Fare: I can't see any way to do it without either locking around creation/registration of processes and reaping, or handling all of that in a dedicated thread, either. 05:29:15 zophy 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06:59:21 -!- carrl [~carl@61-64-164-206-adsl-tai.STATIC.so-net.net.tw] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:59:39 Cowhm [~Cowhm@c-24-6-240-176.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:00:22 carrl [~carl@61-64-164-206-adsl-tai.STATIC.so-net.net.tw] has joined #lisp 07:01:23 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 07:02:24 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 07:02:31 jp_larocque [~jp_larocq@number-41.thoughtcrime.us] has joined #lisp 07:02:47 What a beautiful Sunday morning! 07:03:17 by 2 minutes 07:03:27 Is the video 'Dan Weinreb's Tech Talk, Lisp for High-Performance Transaction Processing' still around? 07:03:28 -!- sellout [~greg@82.203.205.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:04:08 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:05:12 xavieran [~xavieran@dsl-220-235-118-249.sa.westnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:05:32 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 07:06:38 There seems to be a not terribly common idiom in Common Lisp for a sequence of options to be given as lists of the form (option-name . option-args). 07:07:17 jp_larocque: ? 07:07:40 jp_larocque: Options to what? 07:07:49 The two places I can think of with this idiom are DEFCLASS, where you can specify (:DOCUMENTATION "..."), and DEFGENERIC, where you can do the same or (:METHOD ...). 07:07:52 Does that make sense? 07:08:22 My question is, is there a standard term for expressing options like this (as opposed to keyword arguments style, e.g. :documentation "..." :method (...))? 07:09:19 jp_larocque: In your first uttering, did you mean "a list where the ELEMENTS have the form (option-name . option-args)"? 07:10:13 -!- zophy [~sy@host-27-92-2-96.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:10:13 jp_larocque: It's pretty common 07:10:32 Sure--where the elements are lists, and they have the form (option-name . option-args). Although to be pedantic, to call them lists would imply the form (option-name &rest option-args). 07:10:44 I've got a macro for that 07:11:09 That's just about what I was going to write. But I wanted to know if there was an accepted term for the idiom. 07:11:15 I'm calling them "option clauses" right now. 07:11:21 I called it destructure-clauses 07:12:06 I mean a term for that style of expressing options. The name of the macro will be based on it, but that's not the part I'm having trouble with. 07:12:30 It's generally just called "clauses", DEFCLASS clauses, DEFPACKAGE clauses etc 07:12:32 tcr: Is your macro in a publicly-available library? 07:13:22 It's part of proprietary code and I'm afraid I'm not holding copyrights to it. At some point we will probably open source stuff, but for the moment we can't be bothered with that :-) 07:13:35 It's not like it'd be hard to write, but if it's a pretty common macro in a utility library somewhere, there's no sense in duplicating it. 07:13:48 No worries then. 07:14:08 -!- Guest10430 [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 07:15:38 We've got quite some cool stuff, c-style bitfield on top of cffi, dsl for specifying protocols like ip, tcp etc. generating very fast accessing code, on top of that smart protocol hexdumps and more :-) 07:16:26 christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 07:17:20 colin` [~user@118-169-34-69.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 07:17:23 Hah. Funny you should mention... 07:19:07 I'm forking Peter Seibel's BINARY-DATA code from PCL, which does that sort of thing. It's probably not as fast as what you're doing, since CLOS instances are instantiated for each instance of a primitive or compound data type. 07:19:37 And I'm writing the macro to clean up some macros in that library which does accept option clauses. 07:19:49 s/the/this/ 07:20:18 And s/ does/ / while we're at it. 07:21:58 -!- Cowhm [~Cowhm@c-24-6-240-176.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:22:13 One of the reasons why I'm forking is to give myself a chance to add reasonable docstrings. =) The other reason is that a lot of the macros are too lax in what they accept, silently failing if you get something wrong. 07:25:19 zophy [~sy@host-27-92-2-96.midco.net] has joined #lisp 07:26:48 -!- symbole [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:27:39 R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-29-151-107.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 07:30:04 -!- zophy [~sy@host-27-92-2-96.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:38:48 adu [~ajr@pool-96-255-9-193.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:41:49 c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:41:54 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:46:13 -!- TR2N [email@89-180-153-66.net.novis.pt] has left #lisp 07:51:35 HET2 [~diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 07:56:30 lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 07:56:43 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 07:58:30 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:03:35 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-231-102-232.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 08:12:20 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has joined #lisp 08:16:56 -!- c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:22:54 c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 08:25:20 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-78-34-195-15.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:30:02 Blkt [~user@93-33-135-1.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:33:38 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 08:38:24 good day everyone 08:39:20 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-116-193.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:39:25 timor [~timor@port-92-195-46-84.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:40:09 hello Blkt 08:41:27 hi there 08:43:33 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESxYwuVfbaQ 08:44:01 maxcom`: I personally never follow links like that unless the person tells me what it is about, and that would then interest me. 08:44:14 Guest206 [~gross221@77-22-161-202-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:44:15 maxcom`: It is the behavior of spammers to just post links like that. 08:45:26 Oh, it's an emacs song :) 08:45:29 fully SFW 08:45:47 How ironic! 08:46:06 Flash being one of the proprietary formats that the FSF wants to replace. 08:46:20 oh, wait, SFW? 08:46:47 *beach* read it as SWF. 08:47:40 heh 08:48:26 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 08:49:42 -!- Guest206 [~gross221@77-22-161-202-dynip.superkabel.de] has left #lisp 08:50:53 I think is usefull to follow links, no matter who posted them 08:51:07 following random links in this channel made me learn a lot of things 08:52:52 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 08:53:20 -!- lexa_ is now known as Guest30372 08:55:50 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-29-151-107.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: This system is going down for poweroff RIGHT FREAKING NOW!!!] 09:00:19 zophy [~sy@host-27-92-2-96.midco.net] has joined #lisp 09:00:38 -!- pkhuong [~pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:01:09 pkhuong [~pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 09:01:25 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.152.109] has joined #lisp 09:02:58 mgr [~mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 09:03:03 _6502_ [~user@dynamic-adsl-78-12-235-158.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 09:03:44 <_6502_> hello... what is the default test predicate for "find" ? 09:05:54 eql 09:06:17 <_6502_> thanks... and where do i find that in hyperspec ? 09:06:49 specbot: clhs eql 09:06:50 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_eql.htm 09:06:52 this? 09:07:27 clhs 17.2.1 09:07:28 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/17_ba.htm 09:07:33 _6502_: Try that one. 09:07:44 <_6502_> no... i mean where i see that eql is the default predicate 09:08:12 <_6502_> oh... ok 09:08:24 "If neither a :test nor a :test-not argument is supplied, it is as if a :test argument of #'eql was supplied." 09:08:45 <_6502_> actually i got on this page but didn't read it fully (thought it was only describing requirements for test functions) 09:14:07 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:18:41 -!- Blkt [~user@93-33-135-1.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:22:18 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:23:25 -!- ski [~slj@c-0712e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:24:03 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755dbd.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:25:51 hello tcr 09:26:17 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:26:19 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:26:32 do you know if it is possible not to update the modeline while showing the arglist in autodoc mode? 09:26:43 ski [~slj@c-0712e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 09:26:54 How you mean? 09:27:42 I see the modeline changed from [pkg sbcl] -> [pkg sbcl 1] -> [pkg sbcl] in a short span (~0.5s) while autodoc is showing the arglist. 09:28:35 That number may represent the number of outstanding swank requests or something 09:28:44 are you using fd-handler or sigio? 09:29:15 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.152.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:29:20 I am using a normal slime setup connecting to a swank server. 09:31:18 Well dunno, look what the number is supposed represent 09:31:33 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:31:35 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:32:32 ctr: the number is pending evaluations. so I guess autodoc do some lisp eval to get the arglist, but because the evaluation takes so little time, updating modeline is annoying. 09:33:18 that's for tcr. 09:33:29 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-161-117-56.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:35:44 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-46-84.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:37:02 redrawing is so far here that I never noticed that 09:37:21 Anyway post to the mailing list 09:37:38 redrawing is so -fast- 09:37:39 ok, I see the modeline flickering though. 09:40:41 asarch [~asarch@189.188.152.60] has joined #lisp 09:46:48 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 09:48:52 Blkt [~user@93-33-135-1.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 09:49:28 Yuuhi [benni@p54839BE1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:55:07 <_6502_> is there in common lisp a lexicographical or at least comparison function for lists of lists/conses ? 09:55:36 <_6502_> at least -> at least a pair 09:56:54 What is the lexicographical order between two lists? 10:00:07 -!- HET2 [~diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:00:22 <_6502_> checking the first element, then if that is equal go to the second and so on 10:00:38 <_6502_> doesn't make sense ? 10:00:44 Oh, you just want equality, not order? 10:01:13 <_6502_> if two corresponding elements are different then that element decides 10:01:36 <_6502_> like for strings, just for lists of things instead 10:01:38 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:01:44 But you said the elements are lists. 10:02:08 <_6502_> yes... i would like to sort a list of lists, using lexicographical order 10:02:27 So again, how do you define lexicographical order between two lists? 10:03:08 -!- Blkt [~user@93-33-135-1.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:03:09 <_6502_> given a comparison function for the elements you keep checking elements starting from first, until you find one that is not "equal" 10:03:30 <_6502_> that element decides who comes first 10:03:32 And when you find such a thing? 10:03:53 _6502_: CL doesn't have this sort of thing built-in, but you can roll your own in about 4 lines of code, e.g. a (sequence< seq1 seq2 element< element=) 10:04:18 *beach* is always impressed by others knowing what is meant, whereas he has no idea. 10:04:28 As I believe beach is saying, you might need to think carefully about what the element< and element= are. 10:05:39 _6502_: So for instance, suppose you want to compare ((a) (c d)) and ((1 2) ("hello")) lexicographically. The first elements are not equal, so they "decide", but how do they decide? 10:06:05 _6502_: Like, which one is smaller, (a) or (1 2)? 10:06:35 <_6502_> beach: of course "equal" was in terms of ordering... that is both (< a b) and (< b a) are false 10:06:51 <_6502_> of course the elements of the lists should be comparable 10:07:09 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 10:07:11 But you said they are lists. What comparison function do you use? 10:08:21 <_6502_> beach: that was exactly my question... may be there was a ready-made (lexicographical-compare (element-comparison-function)) macro in common lisp, so i asked 10:09:21 _6502_: Probably not, but it is hard to say since you only say that elements are lists, and that they need to admit some order, but you don't say anything about the nature of those lists. 10:09:55 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:10:45 _6502_: Common Lisp can't possibly know what you want the result of a comparison between (a) and (1 2) to be. 10:10:46 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 10:10:48 -!- eugu [~Miranda@212.1.246.237] has quit [Quit: eugu] 10:11:18 _6502_: Perhaps you meant the length? 10:11:31 _6502_: Perhaps you consider symbols smaller than numbers? 10:12:01 <_6502_> beach: no... my question was general; of course to use such a function i should also be required to tell how to compare elements 10:12:34 Then your problem is solved: (sort list #'your-comparison-function-here) 10:13:05 <_6502_> beach: to remove some abstraction let's say i want to sort lexicographically a list of lists of numbers 10:13:20 Ah, now we are talking! (for the first time) 10:13:20 <_6502_> using #'> for the numbers 10:14:10 k3yb1n [~abraham@host-190-11-72-167.supernet.com.bo] has joined #lisp 10:14:19 _6502_: Now, you realize that is not at all what you asked to start with. You asked to compare elements, and each element is a list of lists. Now you compare elements that are lists of numbers. 10:14:46 _6502_: So initially, you wanted to sort a list of lists of lists, now you want to sort a list of lists of numbers. 10:15:49 <_6502_> if i asked about list of list of list then that wasn't my intention... however it's pretty possible on a sunday :-) 10:16:37 Then lichtblau was right. There is no function to compare two lists of things lexicographically where you supply the comparison function for things. 10:17:09 <_6502_> ok, then writing my one isn't stupid :-) ... thanks 10:17:18 no problem 10:17:29 <_6502_> my one = my own 10:18:24 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 10:18:26 <_6502_> or remove my 10:18:30 <_6502_> or change my to myself 10:18:37 *_6502_* hates english 10:18:39 Adlai` [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 10:18:45 (loop for e1 in l1 for e2 in l2 when (not (equal e1 e2)) return (compare e1 e2)) or something like that. 10:19:05 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-32-95.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 10:20:29 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:20:32 <_3b> don't forget different length lists 10:20:58 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-23-151.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:34:57 -!- jp_larocque 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quit [Changing host] 10:59:19 badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 11:06:33 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:09:59 Joreji [~thomas@81-050.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:11:43 -!- zophy [~sy@host-27-92-2-96.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:13:22 -!- Blkt [~user@93-33-135-1.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:16:51 Modius [~Modius@davidp4.lnk.telstra.net] has joined #lisp 11:16:54 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 11:18:09 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:18:32 ok I'll remember those. 11:20:28 *lichtblau* wonders what happened to the *.quicklisp.org subdomains 11:21:25 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:23:16 -!- Guest30372 [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 11:25:40 zophy [~sy@host-27-92-2-96.midco.net] has joined #lisp 11:31:01 Aszarsha_ [~foo@tal33-6-83-155-189-154.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:32:45 -!- Aszarsha [~foo@tal33-6-83-155-189-154.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:33:18 Aszarsha [~foo@tal33-6-83-155-189-154.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:33:51 -!- badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPod touch - http://colloquy.mobi] 11:35:21 -!- Aszarsha_ [~foo@tal33-6-83-155-189-154.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:36:46 Fare: ping 11:37:42 Hun [~hun@95-90-225-64-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 11:37:42 mrbug [~user@unaffiliated/mrbug] has joined #lisp 11:38:21 lichtblau: working on a new demo. 11:41:35 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 11:43:40 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.152.60] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:49:49 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-164-238.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:51:57 jewel [~jewel@41-132-107-136.dsl.mweb.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:56:05 Guthur [~michael@host86-160-243-60.range86-160.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:56:27 -!- Guthur [~michael@host86-160-243-60.range86-160.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Client Quit] 11:56:47 Guthur [~michael@host86-160-243-60.range86-160.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:05:09 -!- bigjust [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:06:03 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:10:01 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: A subtle thought that is in error may yet give rise to fruitful inquiry that can establish truths of great value.] 12:10:30 HET2 [~diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 12:10:36 -!- mrbug [~user@unaffiliated/mrbug] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:11:45 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-25-255-161.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:12:19 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-254-77.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 12:19:18 eugu [~Miranda@212.1.246.237] has joined #lisp 12:24:24 <_6502_> why is "76." parsed as an integer ? 12:24:42 _6502_: because of the specification of CL. a trailing dot means decimal. 12:24:59 I think it even means fixnum 12:25:02 _6502_: in maclisp, iirc, the default was octal, so the trailing dot was more useful. 12:25:19 <_6502_> eek... octal by default! 12:25:46 People despited Common Lisp because it didn't follow suit iirc :-) 12:25:58 -!- Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:26:20 <_6502_> tcr: looks not... sbcl parses 12345678901234567890. as an integer 12:27:00 Maybe I'm misremember but notice that only because SBCL behaves a certain way does not automatically make it what the standard says 12:27:10 although SBCL usually is pretty anal about spec conformance 12:28:26 -!- loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:28:39 <_6502_> i'm trying to solve a "golf programming" question from stack overflow using common lisp, and looks to me the solution is huge 12:28:41 tcr: "despised" ? 12:28:48 Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has joined #lisp 12:29:09 <_6502_> not as huge as java... but still huge 12:29:27 <_3b> cl isn't much of a golf language 12:30:06 <_6502_> it's a job for arc you mean ? 12:30:25 *_3b* was thinking more J or something 12:33:04 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:33:52 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.9] 12:35:26 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 12:39:54 -!- Hun [~hun@95-90-225-64-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:47:33 abugosh [~Adium@207-172-111-88.c3-0.tlg-ubr4.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 12:48:25 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@122-57-19-95.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 12:50:28 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.165.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:50:57 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-19-95.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:57:22 hefner [~hefner@ppp-61-90-102-217.revip.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 13:11:29 Good afternon! 13:12:04 hi hefner & beach 13:13:48 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:13:52 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:15:05 AqD|Home [~AqD|Home@122-116-21-207.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:17:20 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 13:18:42 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:20:34 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 13:21:46 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 13:24:40 -!- zophy [~sy@host-27-92-2-96.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:24:41 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:25:27 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:26:07 -!- HET2 [~diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:26:17 <_6502_> hmmm... 670 chars for common lisp, 255 for python; sounds offensive 13:26:29 HET2 [~diman@chello084114129176.4.15.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 13:26:52 setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:29:28 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:30:33 -!- xinming [~hyy@122.238.74.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:30:47 xinming [~hyy@115.221.2.31] has joined #lisp 13:32:06 davazp [~user@83.55.180.105] has joined #lisp 13:34:15 _6502_: What is that? 13:34:41 _JFT_ [~JFT@173.177.87.204] has joined #lisp 13:36:23 _6502_: Offensive to whom? 13:37:51 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Eep.] 13:38:36 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-61-90-102-217.revip.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: hefner] 13:39:04 -!- Tanami [~markovic@150.101.97.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:39:35 People who write programmes by text message, presumably 13:41:33 -!- abugosh [~Adium@207-172-111-88.c3-0.tlg-ubr4.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:42:49 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:44:10 FareWell [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:41 -!- drafael [~tapio@ip-118-90-128-72.xdsl.xnet.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:45:12 jleija [~jleija@adsl-243-237-205.chs.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:34 -!- billitch [~billitch@rob92-1-82-67-155-88.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:49:14 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 13:52:14 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:53:09 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.152.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:54:17 tanami [~markovic@150.101.97.171] has joined #lisp 13:59:20 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 13:59:25 fe[nl]ix, I'm currently creating an API for waitpid'ing 13:59:42 and I'm rewriting posix_spawn 14:00:10 oh, re: posix_spawn, the culprit seemed to be CCL that was forking a thread to execute its run-program 14:00:27 posix_spawn itself looked like it work (except for that addopen thing) 14:00:35 exactly 14:00:59 fe[nl]ix, are you reusing my code? 14:01:11 what code ? 14:01:13 because I did the hard work of getting fd shuffling right 14:01:23 my create-process 14:01:30 in my repo of iolib 14:01:41 AFAIK, that's not C 14:01:53 does it have to be C? 14:02:17 yes 14:02:19 (I suppose it's better indeed) 14:02:31 and you can add primitives to change directory, etc. 14:02:58 well, assembly, Forth and other low-level languages would do fine too :) 14:02:59 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:03:05 :) 14:03:16 I was thinking about a Forth interpreter, but oh well. 14:03:50 or just lisp in no interrupts, no gc mode. 14:04:00 (though that might not be portable) 14:04:19 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:04:58 fe[nl]ix, other error, I'm getting an EAGAIN in %fill-buf 14:05:08 shouldn't fill-buf do the handling? 14:05:30 and then should it really be inline? 14:06:04 on what OS ? 14:06:17 Linux 14:06:25 from a pipe, I believe 14:06:59 yes, a pipe open in non-blocking mode. 14:07:09 %fill-ibus is already inline 14:07:29 it's complex enough that it maybe shouldn't 14:07:51 me345 [~me345@adsl-75-15-233-63.dsl.bkfd14.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:08:07 or I could fcntl the pipe to be blocking after opening it, if you so insist. 14:09:41 %fill-ibuf calls %read-once, which handles EWOUDBLOCK, which is the same as EAGAIN on Linux 14:11:17 indeed. Yet I get Error # > While executing: IOLIB.STREAMS::DEFAULT-READ-FN, in process Initial(0). 14:11:25 so I don't understand what you're seeing 14:11:47 show me the backtrace 14:14:19 -!- Joreji [~thomas@81-050.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:14:36 Joreji [~thomas@81-050.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:15:40 billitch [~billitch@rob92-1-82-67-155-88.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:17:04 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:17:23 bytecolor [~user@adsl-71-137-195-53.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 14:20:25 -!- Joreji [~thomas@81-050.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:20:32 is there a way to '(foo () t) => (FOO () T), instead of => (FOO NIL T) 14:20:43 Joreji [~thomas@81-050.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:21:00 I realize nil and () are eq, but () just *looks* better when generating a fn 14:21:41 barcon332 [~barcon332@208.89.210.254] has joined #lisp 14:22:03 netytan [~netytan@85.211.52.213] has joined #lisp 14:22:53 bytecolor, write your own SEXP writer -- not THAT hard 14:23:08 sexp writer? 14:24:13 I don't think I've been in that realm of cl 14:24:18 gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.230.93] has joined #lisp 14:24:54 bytecolor: You might be allowed to write a method on print-object specialized on nil. 14:25:17 hrm 14:26:59 -!- _JFT_ [~JFT@173.177.87.204] has quit [Quit: _JFT_] 14:27:11 well, actually I might be going about this all wrong any way. Instead of returning a list of code (which I'm building up from quoted return values), I could print to a file. I'm generating skeleton code from BNF, PEG, etc. 14:27:29 you're not allowed to define methods on standard generic functions specialized on built-in classes 14:27:33 lots more control that way, eh? 14:27:46 hefner [~hefner@ppp-61-90-102-217.revip.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 14:28:03 stassats: Yeah, that's why I said "might". 14:28:30 bytecolor: Why do you care how it is printed? 14:28:48 clhs set-pprint-dispatch 14:28:48 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_set_pp.htm 14:28:54 Extending the pretty printer might be enough for your needs. 14:28:59 beach doesn't really matter, just *looks* better to me with () 14:29:19 -!- davazp [~user@83.55.180.105] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:29:21 bytecolor: Then I recommend you don't bother. 14:29:56 heh, nod. probably check out stassats link though ;) 14:31:43 very easy to do if you don't care for pretty printing 14:31:57 how would it print '(foo nil t) then? 14:33:38 rtra [~rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #lisp 14:34:57 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:42:33 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-96-255-9-193.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 14:44:03 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:46:11 jhalogen [~jake@207-237-214-17.c3-0.80w-ubr2.nyr-80w.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:57:12 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 15:01:56 Blkt [~user@93-33-129-204.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:02:58 -!- prip_ [~foo@host153-122-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:06:45 -!- Joreji [~thomas@81-050.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:07:10 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:09:48 netytan_ [~netytan@85.211.27.55] has joined #lisp 15:09:56 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 15:10:42 -!- netytan [~netytan@85.211.52.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:10:43 -!- netytan_ is now known as netytan 15:12:54 kahfei [~kahfei@118.100.117.240] has joined #lisp 15:13:13 -!- kahfei [~kahfei@118.100.117.240] has left #lisp 15:14:51 prip_ [~foo@host235-24-dynamic.43-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:16:37 -!- AqD|Home [~AqD|Home@122-116-21-207.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: AqD|Home] 15:24:51 -!- billitch [~billitch@rob92-1-82-67-155-88.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:24:54 billitch [~billitch@rob92-1-82-67-155-88.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:25:41 oh man. is #lisp going to be this quiet during EST business hours all the time now that ITA got sold? 15:25:46 -!- Blkt [~user@93-33-129-204.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:26:25 -!- netytan [~netytan@85.211.27.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:26:31 waitaminnit it's july 4, scratch that :) :) :) 15:28:16 Blkt [~user@93-33-129-204.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:28:18 -!- metasyntax [~taylor@72.86.89.174] has quit [Quit: Be seeing you.] 15:28:36 -!- jhalogen [~jake@207-237-214-17.c3-0.80w-ubr2.nyr-80w.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: jhalogen] 15:30:00 -!- billitch [~billitch@rob92-1-82-67-155-88.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:30:12 billitch [~billitch@rob92-1-82-67-155-88.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:32:12 e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 15:40:05 Aisling [ash@blk-222-192-36.eastlink.ca] has joined #lisp 15:41:51 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.75.76] has joined #lisp 15:42:28 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 15:48:28 -!- jewel [~jewel@41-132-107-136.dsl.mweb.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:51:37 nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-129-229.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:50 G'morning all. 15:52:02 morning 15:52:05 hello 15:59:47 -!- thunk [~thunk@unaffiliated/thunk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:00:08 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:00:43 netytan [~netytan@85.211.27.55] has joined #lisp 16:00:50 hey nyef 16:00:59 [and good evening everyone] 16:01:11 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 16:02:07 good morning, beach 16:03:09 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:03:53 ... I have a C program that defines a function called "backtrace". There is a C library function called "backtrace" that I wish to call. Is there any good solution to this problem? 16:05:42 nyef: ISTR someone doing dyld hackery for something like that. 16:05:50 nyef: ouch. 16:05:54 Eek. 16:05:58 (obviously, it went way over my head) 16:06:08 Maybe I should just rename backtrace to lisp_backtrace? 16:06:15 nyef: you can use dlopen and dlsym, if you know for sure things are going to be dynamically linked 16:06:33 Yes, dynamically linked. 16:07:04 See how zlibc and tub did that. 16:07:28 I think I'll just rename the function. 16:07:39 at initialization time, you use dlsym to get the previous symbol and store it in a static variable. 16:07:52 -!- benny [~user@i577A3281.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:07:56 otherwise you use the name in your file. 16:08:11 and call the function from the static variable as a hook 16:08:50 <_6502_> and if some other statically linked code calls that function ? 16:08:52 pickles [~paul@d47-69-2-54.col.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 16:10:06 _6502_, either (1) you lose, or (2) you do like tub, scan code for syscalls and hot patch it. 16:10:59 or (3) you run everything in an emulator 16:11:10 mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 16:11:13 *_6502_* will call next line drawing function "malloc" 16:12:08 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:16:01 -!- billitch [~billitch@rob92-1-82-67-155-88.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:16:13 billitch [~billitch@rob92-1-82-67-155-88.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:09 zophy [~sy@host-242-6-111-24-static.midco.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:24 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@122-57-19-95.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:25:36 benny [~user@i577A1976.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:26:34 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:27:31 -!- jleija [~jleija@adsl-243-237-205.chs.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Happy 4th of July, America!] 16:27:32 -!- oconnore_ [~oconnore_@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:29:53 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 16:32:20 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-254-77.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:32:24 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Beep.] 16:34:02 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-26-210-8.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 16:35:03 abugosh [~Adium@207-172-111-88.c3-0.tlg-ubr4.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 16:39:21 -!- rootzlevel [~hpd@91-66-217-25-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:41:48 carlocci [~nes@93.37.201.11] has joined #lisp 16:46:16 fundamental [~fundament@cvar.townhouse.clarkson.edu] has joined #lisp 16:51:52 Cowhm [~Cowhm@c-24-6-240-176.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:52:06 #gnu-smalltalk 16:52:27 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:52:32 mormin 16:52:37 *morning 16:54:03 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:54:27 jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-12.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:54:33 moah [~gnu@178.1.127.144] has joined #lisp 16:55:15 Joreji [~thomas@81-050.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 16:55:21 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-156-147-234.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:58:35 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-156-147-234.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 17:00:35 -!- _6502_ [~user@dynamic-adsl-78-12-235-158.clienti.tiscali.it] has left #lisp 17:00:45 blandest [~user@79.112.114.105] has joined #lisp 17:01:13 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-229-110.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:02:29 -!- eugu [~Miranda@212.1.246.237] has quit [Quit: eugu] 17:02:40 Xantoz [~hejhej@c83-251-229-110.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 17:02:57 AqD|Home [~AqD|Home@122-116-21-207.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 17:06:15 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 17:09:19 -!- me345 [~me345@adsl-75-15-233-63.dsl.bkfd14.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:11:22 ikki [~ikki@189.247.40.132] has joined #lisp 17:13:29 -!- fundamental [~fundament@cvar.townhouse.clarkson.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:15:32 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:16:57 -!- mcc [~mike@ip68-104-164-151.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:21:17 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-58-147.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:21:59 -!- abugosh [~Adium@207-172-111-88.c3-0.tlg-ubr4.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:22:50 clhs.pl won't work here 17:23:05 it tells me always the file exists 17:23:36 and typing anythin on konqueror with cl:*bla* will respond with protocol cl not implemented 17:24:42 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:25:53 -!- carrl [~carl@61-64-164-206-adsl-tai.STATIC.so-net.net.tw] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:26:20 carrl [~carl@61-64-164-206-adsl-tai.STATIC.so-net.net.tw] has joined #lisp 17:28:08 jonathans [~jonathans@c-68-45-75-20.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:28:28 -!- jonathans [~jonathans@c-68-45-75-20.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:29:50 try l1sp.org 17:30:01 -!- ``Erik [Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:31:29 wow 17:31:32 thanks for the link 17:34:23 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 17:37:52 -!- Cowhm [~Cowhm@c-24-6-240-176.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:39:58 plediii [~plediii@adsl-99-88-239-16.dsl.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:40:58 -!- galdor [galdor@def92-10-88-162-192-107.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 17:42:27 ... "pinned pointer 64"? 17:42:51 galdor [galdor@def92-10-88-162-192-107.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:54 And pointer a8? WTF is putting fixnums on the pin-list? 17:45:15 conservative stack thingie? 17:45:54 No conservative stack on PPC. 17:46:18 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 17:47:09 typed register split? 17:47:26 I put up a new static symbol, *pinned-objects*, and rigged with-pinned-objects to `(let ((*pinned-objects* (list* ,@objects *pinned-objects*))) ,@body), then trace each threads binding for *pinned-objects* during GC. 17:48:09 Basically, if an object is on the pin list, it was either put there deliberately, or there's memory corruption afoot. 17:49:58 in that let, you can insert a check 17:50:29 I'm also wondering about the atomicity of it all 17:50:45 FareWell: atomicity? why? 17:51:14 It's a thread-local binding, so I'm really not worried. 17:51:42 nyef: we have a couple functions that pin arbitrary values even if they're not pointers 17:51:53 how much work would adding a precise GC to SBCL/x86_64 require ? 17:51:56 maybe not indeed - somehow I was figuring the address of the object had already escaped - but the escaped address will have been adjusted 17:52:50 fe[nl]ix: more work than I'm convinced is worth it. 17:53:32 fe[nl]ix: Quite a bit, though it's on my list of possible future projects. 17:54:37 nyef: gethash/puthash pin the key, for instance. 17:55:55 Ah. 17:56:24 nyef: I hope making sbcl.so is higher on the list 17:56:27 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:56:40 anyone have some prefix dylan source code? 17:56:52 CMU AI repo doesn't seem to have it 17:56:57 *FareWell* almost considers writing a "link script" to remake a sbcl linked with additional stuff :-/ 17:57:06 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:57:11 -!- FareWell is now known as Fare 17:58:35 Actually, sbcl.so is considerably lower on the list. 17:58:56 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-23-140.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:59:36 Is there any way to tell SBCL that when I bind *print-right-margin* to NIL that I really want no wrapping? 18:00:05 Ah, *print-pretty* nil does it. 18:02:00 nyef: :( 18:03:14 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 18:04:03 What? I really don't have a good angle for making sbcl.so into something that I'd actually want to use. 18:04:29 a .o or .a that I can link against is fine, too 18:04:49 the goal still being to deliver a single executable image 18:05:21 a magic ld script putting what needs to be at fixed address at said fixed address would be fine, too 18:06:26 Fare: slam.sh is pretty quick, though. 18:09:28 pkhuong, how do I add a .o or .a to the mix? 18:09:49 -!- manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:10:32 Fare: fix the makefile? 18:10:43 :-/ 18:12:27 how does an sbcl.so help make a single executable image? Sounds to me like that's one file _more_ than before. 18:12:27 -!- billitch [~billitch@rob92-1-82-67-155-88.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:12:34 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.165.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 18:12:42 billitch [~billitch@rob92-1-82-67-155-88.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:13:27 lichtblau, I'm more for a libsbcl.a actually 18:14:41 ziarkaen [~ziarkaen@87.113.118.205] has joined #lisp 18:15:25 Fare: is there more to do than just linking all objects excepted the main function ? 18:16:34 billitch: apparently, the image needs to know the addresses in the final linked executable. 18:19:02 Fare: addresses of ? 18:19:32 who knows? probably things like NIL, function trampolines, etc. 18:22:20 i'm not sure i understand what sbcl.so is about, you want to link other objects to a sbcl image ? 18:23:43 A few "foreign" functions, a couple of critical trampolines, etc. 18:24:51 At the same time, the most critical trampolines could easily be relocated to assembly-routines, which causes a different set of relocation problems. 18:25:52 can't the linker handle the relocations? 18:26:08 or be instructed to put things at fixed addresses? 18:26:29 (like, putting the unrelocatable things in a special segment with a fixed address) 18:28:53 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: astoon] 18:32:18 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.75.76] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:32:45 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.86.124] has joined #lisp 18:33:46 daniel_ [~daniel@p5082BE91.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:18 aw [~aw@149-233-160.oke2-bras6.adsl.tele2.no] has joined #lisp 18:35:50 -!- aw [~aw@149-233-160.oke2-bras6.adsl.tele2.no] has left #lisp 18:36:19 -!- mrSpec is now known as noobek 18:36:26 -!- noobek is now known as mrSpec 18:36:54 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082EE20.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:41:13 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-23-140.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:42:18 -!- billitch [~billitch@rob92-1-82-67-155-88.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:42:18 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:42:54 Davse_Bamse [~davse@82.103.143.161] has joined #lisp 18:43:29 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:44:01 -!- Blkt [~user@93-33-129-204.ip44.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Error: do not makunbount t please] 18:45:17 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-156-147-234.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:45:18 _ace4016_ [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-101-132.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:35 -!- _ace4016_ is now known as ace4016 18:45:50 interestingly, the xcvb backend works with ccl as a target, but not sbcl 18:48:10 -!- akamaus [~maus@94.231.115.107] has left #lisp 18:49:02 hum. Is there a way to make strace work on sbcl? 18:50:05 Isn't it the personality() calls that break it? 18:50:22 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 18:50:40 Cowhm [~Cowhm@c-24-6-240-176.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:50:41 (Can you have strace attach post-startup, the way you can with gdb?) 18:51:01 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-101-132.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:51:31 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 18:52:48 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-156-147-193.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:59 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.139.95] has joined #lisp 18:54:20 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 18:55:58 nyef: strace -p PID 18:56:33 you can but eventually I get a memory fault 18:57:09 right now though it's stuck in a select. Tough to debug that stuff. 18:58:08 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.177.0.188] has joined #lisp 18:59:50 Meh. You want tough to debug, I've got some sort of threaded GC problem here. 19:00:11 And whenever I add something to try and get more information, it goes away. 19:01:19 maden [~maden@modemcable068.120-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 19:01:36 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:01:57 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 19:04:29 toast` [~toast`@c-71-231-102-232.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:44 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:05:13 well, leave the thing that gets more information -- fixed! 19:05:47 Umm. No. Far too noisy for general use. 19:06:04 ok, leave it except that you remove the actual printing. 19:06:33 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-156-147-193.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:07:01 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-144-13-231.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:08:32 xan_ [~xan@131-46-207-85.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has joined #lisp 19:13:59 manic12 [~andrew@99-100-67-123.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:51 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 19:23:17 thunk [~thunk@unaffiliated/thunk] has joined #lisp 19:31:11 oconnore_ [~oconnore_@thingy.cs.umass.edu] has joined #lisp 19:31:59 -!- maden [~maden@modemcable068.120-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:35:15 -!- galabad [~root@cpe-76-189-138-28.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: BitchX-1.1-final -- just do it.] 19:40:04 heh. When did this Racket thing happen? 19:40:08 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-32-95.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:40:49 june 7 19:42:17 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.148.170.2] has joined #lisp 19:43:16 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-26-210-8.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 19:44:37 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.177.0.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:46:30 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.192.139.95] has quit [Quit: Well, the machine might have gone down. Brb after a reboot.] 19:49:17 timor [~timor@port-92-195-46-84.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 19:49:21 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-12.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:53:55 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:03:34 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-15-139.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 20:04:02 fusss_ [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:53 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:05:56 francogrex [~user@109.130.115.100] has joined #lisp 20:05:58 -!- fusss_ is now known as fusss 20:06:34 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 20:09:38 abugosh [~Adium@207-172-111-88.c3-0.tlg-ubr4.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 20:10:21 -!- reb [~user@nat/google/x-fmggiarjmojmsrrk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:15:25 anyone know if closette would run on XCL? 20:15:36 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.115.100] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:18:14 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-144-13-231.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire.] 20:18:50 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 20:21:54 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-231-102-232.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 20:22:05 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-144-13-231.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:03 -!- abugosh [~Adium@207-172-111-88.c3-0.tlg-ubr4.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:32:33 toast` [~toast`@c-71-231-102-232.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:45 -!- timor [~timor@port-92-195-46-84.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:36:52 -!- mega1 [~quassel@catv4E5CABA2.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:37:47 fiveop [~fiveop@e179161246.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:44:57 -!- tcr [~tcr@212.178.48.60.brk02-home.tm.net.my] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:47:47 why is SBCL getting lots of 0's reading from the pipe into which I send it commands? 20:47:50 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@e179161246.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 20:48:18 or maybe the buffer is a string and the zeroes don't matter 20:50:13 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-58-147.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:52:10 looks like SBCL might not be liking opening a named pipe. Sigh. 20:52:26 turbo24prg [~turbo24pr@turbolent.com] has joined #lisp 20:52:33 morning 20:53:20 ... Wait, doesn't CLX use named pipes by default for local connections? 20:53:47 davazp [~user@83.55.180.105] has joined #lisp 20:53:48 nyef: it uses local sockets 20:54:49 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-111-226.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 20:55:06 ccl, sbcl and clisp's run-program seem very similar. should i use #+ to check which one should be used on each implementation or is there already a cross-platform wrapper available? 20:55:29 So the modern habit of not having the X server listen on a TCP port breaks things, then? 20:55:48 nyef: unix ("file") domain socket != named pipe 20:55:58 Ah. 20:56:15 Clearly, I've forgotten an awful lot about unix IPC. 20:56:32 jhalogen [~jake@207-237-214-17.c3-0.80w-ubr2.nyr-80w.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 20:57:23 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:58:01 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.78.230.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:58:13 Aszarsha_ [~foo@tal33-6-83-155-189-154.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:00:34 Fare: what's the actual failure that you're seeing? 21:00:53 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.30.106] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:01:15 -!- Aszarsha [~foo@tal33-6-83-155-189-154.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:01:37 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-231-102-232.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 21:04:24 licthblau: http://paste.lisp.org/+2EJ8 21:04:44 -!- netytan [~netytan@85.211.27.55] has quit [Quit: netytan] 21:05:21 turbo24prg, what are you trying to do with it? 21:05:42 turbo24prg, in simple cases, you might want to use xcvb-master's wrapper around run-program. 21:05:46 so you're waiting on I/O. I take it that you didn't mean to do that...? 21:06:11 it looks like it's assuming a file, therefore always able to read from it, or something. 21:06:15 Fare: run an external program. thanks for the hint 21:06:30 turbo24prg, or asdf's run-shell-command 21:06:44 lichtblau, but it's actually reading from a pipe 21:07:39 Fare: nice, seems handy 21:07:42 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-28-82-250-174-123.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:07:47 or maybe I'm confused 21:08:47 -!- Davse_Bamse [~davse@82.103.143.161] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:09:00 Fare: any way to get both status and output? 21:09:27 Edward_ [~edward@ARennes-299-1-62-164.w92-159.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:09:39 fare: I just don't understand what the question is. :-) If you're waiting on I/O intentionally, then that stacktrace seems fine. 21:09:47 TR2N [email@89-180-232-89.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 21:10:27 If not, then what function are you calling? (the paste only goes to frame 24.) 21:10:37 turbo24prg, not portably using run-program - clisp won't do it 21:10:53 lichtblau, has the string already been parsed or not? 21:11:11 lichtblau, my goal is that it should have read that SEXP and evaluated it 21:11:26 it doesn't look like it evaluated it, because the error log hasn't been created. 21:11:47 so I suppose it's reading the form, then trying to read the whitespace or something, and being stuck 21:13:07 Okay, I'm gone for the evening. 21:13:14 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-71-255-129-229.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: Back tomorrow, I expect.] 21:13:27 Lis [~Lis@business-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:49 toast` [~toast`@c-71-231-102-232.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:14:30 maybe I should be using read-preserving-whitespace instead of read 21:16:49 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-15-139.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:17:20 -!- moah [~gnu@178.1.127.144] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:17:28 ramus_ [~ramus@adsl-99-136-193-77.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:17:38 deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 21:18:18 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-231-102-232.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:19:13 cupe [~cupe@mein.eigensex.org] has joined #lisp 21:20:09 -!- ramus [~ramus@99.23.130.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:20:26 -!- ramus_ [~ramus@adsl-99-136-193-77.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:20:29 hi 21:20:40 ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-136-193-77.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:20:55 Adlai`` [~adlai@93-173-179-29.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 21:23:19 -!- Adlai` [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:24:34 same result with read-preserving-whitespace 21:24:37 I'm baffled 21:25:38 jgriffin [~user@FL-ESR1-208-102-133-40.fuse.net] has joined #lisp 21:25:54 is the writing side of the pipe still open? Does it help if you close the writing FD? 21:26:52 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@ppp-58-8-45-99.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: galaxywatcher] 21:28:01 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:28:07 good question 21:28:22 What I'm seeing is that SB-UNIX:UNIX-READ of the fd will return right away when there is data, but READ-CHAR blocks until the writing side gets closed. 21:28:39 I don't know why, although I'd tend to blame serve-event if in doubt. 21:29:01 hi. what can one do with the environment object that gets passed to a macro definition with &environment? the only examples i can find in cltl etc. show it passed as an argument to macroexpand. can i use it to make the macro use that lexical environment without using macroexpand internally? 21:29:06 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-87-77.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 21:33:38 nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-62-31.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:34:09 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-62-31.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:35:52 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:36:57 sellout [~greg@81.253.36.57] has joined #lisp 21:36:57 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:37:30 fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:02 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-19-95.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 21:39:57 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.9] 21:40:59 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: mstevens] 21:41:23 Elench [~Elench@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 21:45:09 why should read-char need the other side to be closed??? 21:45:33 jonathans [~jonathans@166.137.138.67] has joined #lisp 21:45:38 -!- jonathans [~jonathans@166.137.138.67] has quit [Client Quit] 21:48:09 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:48:11 blame canada! (I mean, serve-event) 21:49:33 badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has joined #lisp 21:51:21 ``Erik [Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:51:37 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 21:52:56 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-58-147.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:55:28 toast` [~toast`@c-71-231-102-232.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:56:49 tcr [~tcr@212.178.48.60.brk02-home.tm.net.my] has joined #lisp 21:57:21 -!- jgriffin [~user@FL-ESR1-208-102-133-40.fuse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:58:38 -!- Lis [~Lis@business-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 22:01:34 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 22:01:48 -!- sellout [~greg@81.253.36.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:02:25 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-71-231-102-232.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 22:07:25 -!- thunk is now known as thunk|away 22:07:52 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 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[christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:23:45 -!- tcr [~tcr@212.178.48.60.brk02-home.tm.net.my] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:23:46 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-28-82-250-174-123.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:28:09 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:28:23 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 22:31:07 jgriffin [~user@FL-ESR1-208-102-133-40.fuse.net] has joined #lisp 22:32:56 -!- drewc`` [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:33:41 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:34:23 -!- R3cur51v3 [~Recursive@173-30-57-91.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:34:35 -!- thunk|away is now known as thunj 22:34:38 -!- thunj is now known as thunk 22:34:41 toast` [~toast`@c-71-231-102-232.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:16 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-52-82-65-125-6.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:46 aw [~aw@149-233-160.541210.adsl.tele2.no] has joined #lisp 22:39:31 -!- aw [~aw@149-233-160.541210.adsl.tele2.no] has left #lisp 22:40:29 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 22:41:58 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@ip70-187-235-200.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:46:55 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755dbd.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:48:00 Pohsul [Pohsul@83.231.95.47] has joined #lisp 22:49:08 symbole [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:49:32 -!- colin` [~user@118-169-34-69.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:49:45 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:51:30 rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has joined #lisp 22:51:43 mcc_ [~mike@ip68-104-164-151.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:52:15 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@118.175.29.10] has joined #lisp 22:54:27 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 22:56:55 Fare, seems like some kind of buffering is involved.. 22:57:23 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:57:48 oh, unix-read is fine, I'm out of useless suggestions.. 22:58:21 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:59:00 -!- rajesh [~rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:00:56 tcr [~tcr@212.178.48.60.brk02-home.tm.net.my] has joined #lisp 23:01:57 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-dba672d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:02:44 -!- Pohsul [Pohsul@83.231.95.47] has quit [] 23:04:33 vishsingh [~vsingh@bas2-toronto10-2925113713.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 23:07:15 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:08:37 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 23:21:19 -!- badipod [~badipod@unaffiliated/baddog144] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPod touch - http://colloquy.mobi] 23:21:36 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-19-95.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:23:37 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@118.175.29.10] has quit [Quit: galaxywatcher] 23:26:02 rtra_ [~rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #lisp 23:27:54 -!- rtra [~rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:29:58 -!- konr [~user@201.82.129.247] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:34:19 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has joined #lisp 23:34:24 -!- blandest [~user@79.112.114.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:36:25 minion: memo for jhalogen: there may be implementation specific uses of this environment parameter, but portably, that's indeed the only thing you can do with it. It is important if you want to use macroexpand inside a macro, to forward the environment so that local definitions are known also to the macro you macroexpand explicitely. Otherwise, your macro is already expanded automatically in this environment. You don't need to do 23:36:25 anything here. 23:36:25 Remembered. I'll tell jhalogen when he/she/it next speaks. 23:42:04 -!- Cowhm [~Cowhm@c-24-6-240-176.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:43:21 jmcphers [~jmcphers@218.185.108.156] has joined #lisp 23:46:11 -!- rtra_ [~rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:47:36 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.156] has joined #lisp 23:55:42 -!- e-future [~e-future@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]