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:) 00:35:23 -!- xan_ [~xan@194.224.2.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:36:19 drewc: :) 00:36:21 thx 00:38:25 bougyman [bougyman@pdpc/supporter/gold/bougyman] has joined #lisp 00:40:05 is kevin raison here? 00:41:11 -!- bikcmp [~bikcmp@unaffiliated/not] has left #lisp 00:42:01 ack. totally in over my head. perhaps F# instead 00:45:34 -!- OmniMancer2 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:54:12 Mannerisky, It'll be fine, just take it in small chunks, you don't have to be expert lisp hacker overnight 00:54:30 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:56:52 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483BB3E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:08:07 gah. 01:08:25 How do I flush the SBCL CLOS caches after undefining a function? 01:09:12 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 01:09:52 -!- myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:13:23 sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has joined #lisp 01:14:45 myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 01:17:56 -!- TeMPOraL [~user@188.146.121.64.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has quit [Quit: 'night all] 01:29:40 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0103-86-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 01:31:10 -!- Mannerisky [~mannerisk@24-117-137-23.cpe.cableone.net] has left #lisp 01:34:52 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:37:36 tcr [~tcr@29.182.48.60.brk02-home.tm.net.my] has joined #lisp 01:42:49 asarch [~asarch@189.188.149.10] has joined #lisp 01:45:23 Hey there... I'm a little lost with how to define a "setf handler"... I've seen defset dans define-setf-expander in the clhs and also some (defun (setf foobar) ...) in various libraries (e.g. (setf lastcar) in alexandria) 01:45:23 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:45:36 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 01:45:49 When to use each ? What are the differences ? 01:46:00 benny [~benny@i577A82E0.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 01:47:12 Use (defun (setf foo) ...) 01:47:25 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 01:47:33 Use (defun (setf foo) ..) if you want to create a setf function from scratch 01:47:45 use short-form of defsetf if you have a suitable set-foo function already 01:48:22 ok, what do you mean by "from scratch" ? 01:48:24 use define-setf-expander if you cannot express your place with a function (due to argument evaluation) 01:48:41 I mean if you do not have a set-foo function yet 01:49:15 Rule of thumb: Use (defun (setf foo) (new-value arg1 arg2 ...) ...) but notice that the new-value comes as first parameter 01:49:15 ok, so defun (setf foo) should be prefered to the long-from of defsetf 01:49:28 It's much easier to write 01:49:54 and there is no actual difference... 01:50:06 Notice that you can also use (defgeneric (setf foo)) and (defmethod (setf foo) ...) 01:50:53 Well it uses slightly different mechanisms, so there are slight differences 01:52:38 ok, I guess I will know when I hit them... but I guess it should not prevent common uses of setf :) 01:52:45 It's much clearer now, thanks ! 01:53:51 -!- derp [~rofl@wikimedia/fail] has quit [] 01:55:36 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-108-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:57:47 -!- curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:58:42 -!- maden [~maden@dsl-157-29.aei.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:01:01 aw|rerun [~aw@p5DDA90C9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:02:10 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 02:03:07 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:03:38 -!- aw [~aw@p5DDA8F87.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:06:14 maden [~maden@dsl-157-29.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 02:16:08 -!- coyo [~unf@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: sometimes, one wishes one could simply disappear :P] 02:24:02 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:24:12 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.18.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:28:30 is it me or the clhs about generic functions is really boring ? 02:28:59 no anecdotes? 02:29:00 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.18.242] has joined #lisp 02:29:38 i was rather looking for standard slots or a standard way to find defined methods 02:29:53 no standard way 02:29:58 Ah, that's not in the CL standard, you want the MOP for that. 02:29:58 billitch1: look for MOP information 02:30:07 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.149.10] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:30:08 instead i just get class precedence list... 02:30:22 ok 02:30:36 billitch1: not everything went into ANSI, MOP was one of the things that missed 02:30:37 the mop is not standard ? 02:30:40 ok 02:30:48 mop:generic-function-methods 02:30:56 it's standard, but of a different standard 02:31:25 hi all. I've a question about a C based language but I think lisp coders are the only folk who can help in this situation 02:31:36 here it is: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2870561/naming-suggestions-for-a-function-providing-chaining-in-a-different-way 02:31:41 ah lispers reputation 02:31:43 =) 02:31:55 :) 02:32:23 is there a way to have mop documentation from slime ? 02:32:46 there is always a way 02:32:52 Kind of if you use hyperdoc 02:33:50 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 02:36:59 nice ! 02:37:05 shofetim [~user@97-121-228-161.blng.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:41:47 -!- eldragon [~eldragon@84.79.67.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:43:37 gospch [~gospch@unaffiliated/gospch] has joined #lisp 02:44:34 sid3k: what is your question ? ideas about these 3 lines of code ? and you can implement a full lisp in C (if you dare..) 02:44:49 a simple lisp is not hard to implement in any language 02:45:10 it's easy in lisp 02:50:19 (do ((res (read) (read))) ((equal res 'exit )) (setf res (eval res)) (print res)) 02:50:52 I added the exit for convenience, but really why would you stop 02:51:56 what a horrible mess! (loop (print (eval (read)))) take that REPL, brother. 02:52:36 hmm (loop do (print (eval (read)))) ? 02:52:37 hehe, I bow to your Greater REPL 02:52:45 billitch1: no. 02:53:00 billitch1: I need a naming suggestion 02:53:08 wakeup^ [~wakeup@koln-5d818abf.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 02:53:20 a name more suitable than 'chain' 02:54:39 -!- billitch1 is now known as billitch_ 02:55:09 sid3k: "fluently-with" ? => that way you got a ref to the idiom you're using AND the ""natural"" keyword used in various languages 02:56:06 -!- wakeup [~wakeup@koln-5d81e6d6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:56:07 fluently_with(foo) { bar1; bar2; bar3; } looks nicely... 02:56:17 (imho) 02:57:09 sid3k: this looks like grouped beta reduction on the right side of given 1-functions 02:57:19 if that means anything 02:57:31 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-18-196.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:57:48 lemoinem: fluently with is exactly what I'm looking for 02:57:56 yup, but good luck to find a nice-looking name for that... 02:57:59 but it's a little long :) 02:58:11 call-with ? 02:58:15 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-168-152-229.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:58:53 (but I still prefer fluently-w/ (; ) 02:59:27 both are great, I guess I will prefer "callwith" 03:00:04 it will be used to create/manipulate lots of dom trees, it's better to be short 03:00:20 indeed 03:00:37 thanks very much 03:01:47 you're welcome 03:02:57 blbrown [~Berlin@75.139.142.224] has joined #lisp 03:03:27 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0103-86-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has left #lisp 03:03:50 -!- marioxcc [~user@201.132.135.74] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:04:20 with-arg ? 03:04:34 amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 03:04:35 with-last-arg ? 03:04:53 -!- necroforest_ [~jarred@pool-72-66-100-119.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:04:54 that's what i would call it in lisp i guess 03:05:10 -!- MalcolmXJohnLeni [~stray@c-24-245-50-140.hsd1.wi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: MalcolmXJohnLeni] 03:07:04 necroforest [~jarred@pool-72-66-100-119.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:07:44 i wonder, what do present #lisp'ers think of repo-install ? 03:08:02 is it wrong ? 03:10:29 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 03:10:37 -!- billitch_ [~billitch@rob92-1-82-67-155-88.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:11:05 billitch1 [~billitch@rob92-1-82-67-155-88.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 03:11:13 billitch, You mean install an implementation or CL lib from some linux repo? 03:11:43 i mean http://www.machineinsight.com/repo-install/ 03:11:53 -!- billitch1 is now known as billitch_ 03:12:40 interesting, I'm not sure, I haven't seen it mentioned much 03:13:02 git based source repositories backed system installer hooked into asdf 03:13:02 yet another asdf-install replacement! 03:13:08 how is this one better? 03:13:20 do you take advantage of the new ASDF 2 configuration? 03:13:33 it uses upstream repositories when it can or bazaar local repo of upstream tarballs 03:13:59 i think it does, i did not really look into that part of it yet =) 03:14:43 the main advantage is that you can merge upstream updates without loosing your changes 03:14:57 and also easily contribute fixes 03:15:45 and the maintainer is nice, merging the definitions i added to the list of repos 03:16:55 why not. 03:16:57 coyo [~unf@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:18:24 i wondered if there is anything wrong with it because i never heard of it 03:18:35 only asdf-instal or clbuild 03:19:30 i find asdf-install quite annoying and never tried clbuild to compare 03:20:18 how can system installer benefit from asdf 2 ? 03:20:33 billitch_: clearer config scheme 03:21:09 also, recursive directory search 03:22:08 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-163-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 03:23:00 only config here is to load boot.lisp : http://github.com/jpalmucci/repo-install/blob/master/boot.lisp 03:23:21 the directory structure is very straightforward from there 03:23:38 the other systems are siblings of the repo-install dir 03:25:05 and it hooks asdf to try to find repos in this directory scheme 03:25:28 recursive directory search could really help i guess 03:27:58 -!- Guthur [~michael@host81-131-243-36.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:30:20 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!] 03:32:03 Tabmow [terry@freenode/staff/tabmow] has joined #lisp 03:32:14 dysinger_ [~dysinger@cpe-66-8-173-142.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:34:08 -!- billitch_ [~billitch@rob92-1-82-67-155-88.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:34:21 billitch1 [~billitch@rob92-1-82-67-155-88.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 03:35:03 -!- billitch1 is now known as billitch_ 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[~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 04:44:36 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 04:45:43 jasonx [jasonx@78-0-206-191.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 04:45:46 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 04:48:54 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:49:48 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-168-152-229.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 04:53:03 crink [~crink@unaffiliated/crink] has joined #lisp 04:57:33 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 04:57:57 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/session] has joined #lisp 04:58:44 Murdox [~uhhh@host86-186-33-252.range86-186.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 05:00:16 psilord2 [~psilord@adsl-75-42-235-187.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:00:59 -!- Murdoc [~uhhh@host86-178-14-1.range86-178.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:02:16 Regenaxer [~Baldur@pd9568a7a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 05:05:38 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 05:06:04 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 05:07:06 Good morning! 05:07:28 good morning 05:08:40 hi beach 05:10:02 hello beach, however, I'm about to log off. :) 05:10:21 (Hi fe[nl]ix to!) 05:10:35 hi psilord2 05:11:17 -!- maden [~maden@dsl-157-29.aei.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:11:49 hi~ 05:12:11 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:12:12 All right, I'm out. Later! 05:12:17 -!- psilord2 [~psilord@adsl-75-42-235-187.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 05:12:55 stassats: thanks :) 05:13:07 "A Lisp programmer knows the value of everything, but the cost of nothing." Anonymous 05:13:49 fe[nl]ix: you read my mind, i just wanted to say what i did 05:14:28 stassats: I read your mind ? 05:16:28 maybe someone else reads it for you, but i was about to say that i merged your changes and you send "thanks" 05:17:20 I just woke up and reloaded the page to see if you committed something :) 05:19:47 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 05:23:04 oh, damn, i forgot the main reason i moved defknowns into a separate file, they don't like to be redefined 05:23:31 lordakinator [~igaray@190.1.21.110] has joined #lisp 05:24:01 -!- galdor [galdor@def92-10-88-162-192-107.fbx.proxad.net] has left #lisp 05:24:26 can we loosen the defknown for CLOSE? 05:24:42 we could 05:24:49 it sucks when CLOSE is a gf that get further specialized (as by e.g. IOLib). 05:25:10 indeed 05:25:18 if you REALLY want it to only operate on streams, then don't make it a gf, I'd say. 05:25:28 -!- lordakinator [~igaray@190.1.21.110] has left #lisp 05:28:53 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.149.10] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:30:17 echo-area [~zhujun@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 05:30:49 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:34:07 ejs [~eugen@94-248-105-200.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 05:34:49 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:34:58 pnq [~gaiug@AC82CB3E.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 05:36:08 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-44-82-249-214-213.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:37:38 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:38:25 Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-198-139.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:38:26 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:46:36 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 05:50:57 ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 05:51:01 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:51:18 -!- tomoyuki28jp [~tomoyuki2@tomoyuki28jp.xen.prgmr.com] has left #lisp 05:51:40 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-246-7-135.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:52:52 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:52:53 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:53:41 Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-246-7-135.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:53:43 Fare: I merged your CFFI patches to http://gitorious.org/cffi 05:55:12 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has quit [Quit: Want lisppaste in your channel? Email lisppaste-requests AT common-lisp.net.] 05:55:15 lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 05:55:17 thanks a lot! 05:55:41 lemoinem [~swoog@66.51.249.75] has joined #lisp 05:55:50 Ginei_Morioka [irssi_log@78.115.199.228] has joined #lisp 05:55:51 have you taken the latest from common-lisp.net/project/xcvb/darcs/cffi/ ? 05:56:31 no, just what you sent me 05:56:43 I don't see anything on http://common-lisp.net/project/cffi/darcs/cffi 05:56:54 it's not there 05:57:06 oh - where is the new cffi? 05:57:15 I merged to gitorious only, and I hope to convince luis to switch 05:57:22 ok 05:57:40 the website mentions darcs only 05:57:43 -!- TR2N [email@89.180.146.107] has left #lisp 05:57:46 because my darcs has problems with the one on c-l.net 05:58:45 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:59:53 easyE [fH31vOuxw5@panix3.panix.com] has joined #lisp 06:01:08 _3b [foobar@cpe-70-112-86-23.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:03:16 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 06:03:17 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-225-199-179.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: night] 06:04:05 -!- spec`away is now known as mrSpec 06:04:16 -!- ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:10:17 no problem. I prefer git to darcs, anyway. 06:11:25 -!- cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:11:30 ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 06:11:46 sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:13:15 hi sellout 06:16:16 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 06:19:46 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:19:51 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 06:19:58 j4K0b [~j4k0bk@93.160.119.14] has joined #lisp 06:20:31 abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 06:21:00 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-22-10.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:21:16 -!- ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:21:17 Joreji [~thomas@84-047.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 06:25:15 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:25:30 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:26:16 -!- Joreji [~thomas@84-047.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:27:35 -!- crink [~crink@unaffiliated/crink] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:32:49 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:33:04 ASau` [~user@77.246.231.56] has joined #lisp 06:34:25 Joreji [~thomas@84-047.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 06:37:41 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:37:50 good morning 06:39:05 hi mvilleneuve 06:41:32 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:42:25 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 06:45:03 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 06:49:02 -!- rlpowell_ is now known as rplowell 06:49:06 -!- rplowell is now known as rlpowell 06:54:04 TeMPOraL [~user@wifi-wpa.agh.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 06:54:55 Murdoc 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Verlassend] 07:28:15 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:28:17 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 07:28:26 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 07:29:26 xan_ [~xan@194.224.2.170] has joined #lisp 07:30:08 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757c4c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:31:40 -!- delYsid` is now known as delYsid 07:34:09 Good morning! 07:36:13 chrnybo` [~user@148.122.202.244] has joined #lisp 07:36:55 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 07:37:17 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181217253.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 07:37:41 -!- chrnybo [~user@148.122.202.244] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:40:38 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 07:42:28 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:43:33 -!- Joreji [~thomas@84-047.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:43:39 -!- 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[~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-doujnkwjrzgumkky] has joined #lisp 08:51:49 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.56.6] has joined #lisp 08:52:34 -!- tcr [~tcr@203.82.92.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:55:16 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 08:55:34 -!- TeMPOraL [~user@wifi-wpa.agh.edu.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:55:57 -!- billitch1 [~billitch@rob92-1-82-67-155-88.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:56:08 billitch1 [~billitch@rob92-1-82-67-155-88.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 08:59:12 -!- billitch1 [~billitch@rob92-1-82-67-155-88.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:59:23 billitch1 [~billitch@rob92-1-82-67-155-88.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:07:50 vtl [~user@nat/redhat/x-cmojuofpguegauou] has joined #lisp 09:13:01 Murdoc [~uhhh@host86-186-32-242.range86-186.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:15:04 tcr [~tcr@203.82.80.106] has joined #lisp 09:15:45 -!- Murdox [~uhhh@host86-135-169-62.range86-135.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:16:33 xristos: here? 09:17:28 -!- Murdoc [~uhhh@host86-186-32-242.range86-186.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:18:13 Murdoc [~uhhh@host86-135-31-204.range86-135.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:18:37 xan_ [~xan@194.224.2.170] has joined #lisp 09:19:41 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:21:47 -!- daniel___ is now known as daniel 09:24:20 Joreji [~thomas@84-047.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 09:24:30 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 09:27:14 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-72-35.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 09:27:33 Murdox [~uhhh@host86-186-32-96.range86-186.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:28:00 Salamander__ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-82-170.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:28:43 good morning 09:29:47 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-160-203.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:30:31 yes mornin #lisp 09:30:39 -!- Murdoc [~uhhh@host86-135-31-204.range86-135.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:32:00 ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 09:33:26 hi antifuchs 09:34:46 Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 09:38:16 hello antifuchs 09:38:24 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:40:41 xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@58.41.59.220] has joined #lisp 09:44:17 adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-55-157.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 09:46:38 -!- G0SUB [~ghoseb@unaffiliated/g0sub] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:46:51 -!- xyxxyyy1 [~xyxu@58.41.59.220] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:47:16 G0SUB [~ghoseb@unaffiliated/g0sub] has joined #lisp 09:48:26 blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 09:48:54 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-53-76.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 09:50:57 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:52:16 -!- potatishandlarn [~potatisha@79.102.6.169] has quit [] 09:54:02 -!- xan_ [~xan@194.224.2.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:54:59 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.56.6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:58:30 Yuuhi [benni@p54839D24.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:59:08 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 10:13:13 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:15:33 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 10:19:45 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 10:20:16 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 10:23:59 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has joined #lisp 10:26:08 -!- adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-55-157.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:26:30 (on the quote vs backquote): quote still has a reason to exist even though apparently backquote serves the same purpose if you don't use commas and what not inside it 10:27:20 (defun f () '(1 2 3)) will always return the same list, (defun f () `(1 2 3)) should (i think it must) return a new list each time 10:27:45 there is no need to think 10:27:51 in fact, a quoted list might be considered a constant and it's not safe to alter its values or structure 10:27:54 clhs 2.4.6 10:27:55 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_df.htm 10:28:09 `basic is the same as 'basic, that is, (quote basic) 10:28:14 ok, so backquote always returns a fresh new list 10:28:53 stassats: ok, for some purposes, backquote and quote do the same, but not for lists 10:31:55 and vectors 10:36:30 "An implementation is free to interpret a backquoted form F1 as any form F2 that" 10:36:38 so, you can't make any assumptions 10:37:30 `(x y z) may be interpreted as '(x y z) 10:37:37 t3eblinder [~wolfgang@eap111085.extern.uni-tuebingen.de] has joined #lisp 10:37:51 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:41:27 -!- segv [~mb@p4FC1B028.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:41:29 cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has joined #lisp 10:42:47 xan_ [~xan@194.224.2.170] has joined #lisp 10:43:45 stassats: no, `(x y z) MUST NOT be eq to '(x y z). however, `(,@'(x y z)) or `(,.'(x y z)) or `(. ,'(x y z)) MAY be eq to '(x y z) (that is, evaluating '(x y z) twice MAY return the same list twice, but don't assume it does) 10:43:59 -!- Regenaxer [~Baldur@pd9568a7a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 10:44:20 pmd: it may be eq 10:44:55 how? 10:45:17 -!- aw|rerun [~aw@p5DDA90C9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3-dev] 10:45:18 `(x y z) must be the same as (list `x `y `z), which is always not eq 10:45:44 _must_ be? where is this written? 10:46:11 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/02_df.htm 10:46:27 it's a large page, can you point a line? 10:46:37 ok, it says it must be the same as (append (list `x) (list `y) (list `z)) 10:46:48 >>> `(x1 x2 x3 ... xn . atom) may be interpreted to mean 10:46:52 i fail to find the word "must" 10:47:27 Regenaxer [~Baldur@pd9568a7a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:47:38 "may" and "must" have different meanings in my dictionary 10:47:43 segv [~mb@p4FC1AEE6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:47:50 ok, you're right, it's underspecified 10:47:52 xyxxyyy [~xyxu@114.93.128.137] has joined #lisp 10:47:53 it seems 10:48:19 but that chapter always refers to list, append, nconc, etc. 10:48:35 stating that the only case where ` and ' are the same is for anything but lists and vectors 10:48:44 >>> * `basic is the same as 'basic, that is, (quote basic), for any expression basic that is not a list or a general vector. 10:48:55 it's for example, i presume, it laters says it may do anything, as long as it's equal and semantics are the same 10:49:15 so, i assume that lists are always fresh (but the ,@ at the end or ,. and . ,) 10:49:19 -!- Regenaxer [~Baldur@pd9568a7a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit] 10:49:58 well, that assumptions isn't based on the standard, at least not in my understanding 10:50:52 and neither SBCL, nor CCL agree with you 10:51:09 compile: (defun foo () (eq '(x y z) `(x y z))) (foo) => T 10:51:16 >>> The constructed copy of the template might or might not share list structure with the template itself. 10:51:17 Regenaxer [~Baldur@pd9568a7a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:51:46 that's even more clear 10:52:38 damn... 10:52:49 I'm curious to know if other languages have these, not so unfrequent, discussions on "what does the standard say about equality of this and that?" or what heck. 10:53:06 -!- Regenaxer [~Baldur@pd9568a7a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit] 10:53:16 schmx: most other languages don't have literal data at compile time and the situation is a lot simpler then 10:53:26 kpreid: Makes sense. ya. 10:53:48 -!- t3eblinder [~wolfgang@eap111085.extern.uni-tuebingen.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:53:48 Regenaxer [~Baldur@pd9568a7a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:54:05 revel0 [~revel0@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 10:54:36 and some languages don't even have standards 10:56:14 quite a lot of languages don't have standards 10:56:21 and they don't gather on sundays, and don't read and discuss selected chapters 10:56:52 and if you exclude dubious things like EMCA standards made after the fact, most languages don't have standards :) 10:56:52 but they're heretics. And shall burn. 10:57:29 But most languages start with a reference implementation. Which often enough becomes a de facto standard 10:58:02 so did lisp, though there were many implementations 10:58:02 tell that to the poor, confused Ruby people 10:58:24 fgtech^ [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 10:58:32 -!- fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:58:35 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-37-82-253-48-20.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:00:48 t3eblinder [~wolfgang@eap111085.extern.uni-tuebingen.de] has joined #lisp 11:01:16 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0103-86-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 11:02:04 -!- bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:04:25 The few other languages that I use now and then, that have some standard, the discussions seem not so frequent at all.. so maybe it is more of the data being around at compile time that creates the discussions. 11:04:29 *schmx* shrugs. 11:05:06 <_3b> possibly also more implementors here, so more people concerned with the details 11:05:49 i concerned about details so that my programs will run unmodified on different implementations 11:06:49 <_3b> true, more implementations in common use probably has an effect too 11:10:30 or if my implementation changes in the future 11:11:01 I dabble some with forth. It has a standard, but mostly everyone seems to not really care about it, and no one expects code to run on more than just one forth. 11:11:40 but with ada everyone cares. 11:12:00 so I guess everyone is crazy. 11:13:33 hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-11-47-237.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 11:13:41 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:13:50 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 11:21:37 -!- ejs [~eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:23:06 konr [~user@201.82.133.249] has joined #lisp 11:23:07 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:24:28 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:24:57 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 11:26:07 ejs [~eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 11:37:10 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 11:41:08 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 11:43:21 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.18.80.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:44:41 zeroish [~zeroish@c-69-248-213-88.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:44:54 -!- t3eblinder [~wolfgang@eap111085.extern.uni-tuebingen.de] has left #lisp 11:45:47 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:46:35 there should be a lexical declaration 11:46:55 or normal (vs special) 11:47:55 say, is it non-conformance for an implementation to export symbols in the CL package other than the standardized ones? 11:47:57 t3eblinder [~wolfgang@eap111085.extern.uni-tuebingen.de] has joined #lisp 11:48:03 <_3b> yes 11:49:15 -!- blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:51:16 damn... 11:52:01 that's a pretty useful restriction, otherwise you couldn't safely :use :cl 11:52:29 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 11:53:13 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 11:54:48 true 11:55:42 however, common-lisp needs a revamp, not only if because conformant programs must be written in a subset of ASCII 11:56:05 "pick up your machine guns!" 11:59:17 is there a way of creating dll's or so's with a common lisp? 12:02:30 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 12:03:21 -!- echo-area [~zhujun@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:03:38 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 12:04:31 potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f667c54-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 12:05:50 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.1] 12:06:15 -!- Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@d207-6-77-199.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:07:01 Guthur [~michael@host86-150-202-161.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:07:02 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 12:08:23 -!- billitch1 [~billitch@rob92-1-82-67-155-88.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:08:46 pmd: I think ecl does that. 12:11:03 -!- ejs [~eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:11:03 -!- revel0 [~revel0@212.88.117.162] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:11:03 -!- ve [~a@smith.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:11:03 -!- prip [~foo@host37-220-dynamic.45-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:11:03 -!- yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:11:03 -!- pr [~pr@unaffiliated/pr] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:11:03 -!- luis [~luis@nhop.r42.eu] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:11:03 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-213-242.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:11:03 -!- stettberger [stettberge@2001:6f8:1209:f0:216:3eff:fe03:ff] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:11:03 -!- pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:11:03 -!- koollman [~samson_t@ns301422.ovh.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:11:04 -!- spiaggia [~user@armadillo.labri.fr] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:11:04 -!- aoh [~aki@80.75.102.51] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:11:04 -!- bgs000 [57o9@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:11:04 -!- burton [~burton@cercleinfo-pc1.ulb.ac.be] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:11:04 -!- andreer [andreer@flode.pvv.ntnu.no] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:11:04 -!- Lars` [vonli@lynx.stud.ntnu.no] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:11:04 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:11:04 -!- qebab [finnrobi@heidi.itea.ntnu.no] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:11:04 -!- dostoyevsky [sck@oemcomputer.oerks.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:11:09  12:12:50 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:13:03 pmd: What suggests to you that conformant programs must be written in a subset of ascii? 12:13:56 Xach: there's a minimal subset of ASCII that has to be supported on any conformant implementation 12:14:16 ejs [~eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 12:14:16 revel0 [~revel0@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 12:14:16 ve [~a@smith.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:14:16 prip [~foo@host37-220-dynamic.45-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 12:14:16 yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:14:16 pr [~pr@unaffiliated/pr] has joined #lisp 12:14:16 luis [~luis@nhop.r42.eu] has joined #lisp 12:14:16 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-213-242.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:14:16 stettberger [stettberge@2001:6f8:1209:f0:216:3eff:fe03:ff] has joined #lisp 12:14:16 pmd [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:daa8] has joined #lisp 12:14:16 andreer [andreer@flode.pvv.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 12:14:16 bgs000 [57o9@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 12:14:16 koollman [~samson_t@ns301422.ovh.net] has joined #lisp 12:14:16 spiaggia [~user@armadillo.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 12:14:16 burton [~burton@cercleinfo-pc1.ulb.ac.be] has joined #lisp 12:14:16 aoh [~aki@80.75.102.51] has joined #lisp 12:14:16 Lars` [vonli@lynx.stud.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 12:14:16 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 12:14:16 qebab [finnrobi@heidi.itea.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 12:14:16 dostoyevsky [sck@oemcomputer.oerks.de] has joined #lisp 12:14:21 galdor [galdor@def92-10-88-162-192-107.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:14:31 -!- galdor [galdor@def92-10-88-162-192-107.fbx.proxad.net] has left #lisp 12:14:45 about the game mod, i believe someone already did something for starcraft 12:14:50 clhs 2.1.3 12:14:50 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_ac.htm 12:14:57 bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 12:15:10 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:15:48 -!- Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:16:03 pmd: i'm totally not following the discussion but: http://github.com/aerique/cl-starcraft-proxybot 12:16:41 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 12:16:57 Hey guys. Could someone help me at implementing simple currying? Here's what I have tried (fails, obviously): http://npaste.de/Ts/ 12:17:03 p_l: how about 1.5.2 point 2? 12:17:12 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 12:17:20 (Warning May hurt your brain) 12:17:30 phryk: how does it fail? 12:18:11 Function gets set fine. Then I try to get a curried lambda with (setq c (curry '+ 6)) 12:18:45 Which gives me the following lambda: # 12:19:13 so far so good 12:19:19 (funcall c 2) then gives me errors for functionname 12:19:24 USE-VALUE :R1 Input a value to be used instead of FUNCTIONAME. 12:19:53 I think the lambda should already contain '+ instead of FUNCTIONNAME, but I'm not sure 12:20:00 Xach: ok, so it clears it up as difference between "conformant" and "portable" 12:20:17 phryk: oh, you spelled functionname differently the second time. 12:20:22 oh 12:20:26 sorry, I'm a moron :D 12:20:29 phryk: my compiler complains a lot about that. i didn't notice it at first glance. 12:20:56 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 12:21:04 Ah, now it works :) 12:24:47 Murdoc [~uhhh@host86-135-31-164.range86-135.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:24:54 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:27:31 -!- Murdox [~uhhh@host86-186-32-96.range86-186.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:27:42 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-60-4.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 12:27:49 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:28:16 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:28:23 Murdox [~uhhh@host86-182-64-26.range86-182.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:29:12 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-37-67.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:29:22 -!- Murdoc [~uhhh@host86-135-31-164.range86-135.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:29:40 Xach: Out of interest what kind of complaints? 12:29:48 davertron [~Dave@vt-sb-1.logicsupply.com] has joined #lisp 12:30:00 ; caught STYLE-WARNING: 12:30:00 ; The variable FUNCTIONNAME is defined but never used. 12:30:03 and 12:30:05 Ah that 12:30:09 ; caught WARNING: 12:30:09 ; undefined variable: FUNCTIONAME 12:30:10 -!- Regenaxer [~Baldur@pd9568a7a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: BBL] 12:30:27 I'm just putting it into clisp for testing 12:30:38 ok no problem, I thought it was in addition to the typo 12:30:44 I actually never got around to write anything that would've made sense to be compiled^^ 12:31:25 If you add a condition using listp and then return an apply if a appropriate if may be a little more versatile 12:31:27 Murdoc [~uhhh@host86-181-55-141.range86-181.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:31:46 TeMPOraL [~user@wifi-wpa.agh.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 12:31:49 But maybe that requires recursive currying or something 12:31:54 Instead 12:32:43 phryk: well, everything you type at the sbcl repl is compiled, normally. 12:33:07 -!- Murdox [~uhhh@host86-182-64-26.range86-182.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:33:35 pjb [~t@60.Red-80-34-44.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:33:37 billitch1 [~billitch@rob92-1-82-67-155-88.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:34:15 fe[nl]ix: if you set up the git repository at c-l.net, I'll update the webpage and inform the mailing list. :) 12:34:20 Murdox [~uhhh@host86-174-164-94.range86-174.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:35:05 repl? 12:35:42 phryk, Reader Eval Print Loop 12:35:46 Ah 12:35:50 s/Read 12:35:52 -!- xan_ [~xan@194.224.2.170] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:36:19 Guthur: I'm new to lisp, and just wanted to implement a _very_ simple form of currying 12:36:58 -!- Murdoc [~uhhh@host86-181-55-141.range86-181.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:37:22 No problem, enjoy your lispy adventures, hehe 12:38:06 Any time you have questions feel free to share them here, there is plenty of collective knowledge around. 12:38:31 Yeah, I know that 12:39:00 Also I found that some of you guys can be quite the extremist ;P 12:39:37 Who? Where? Death to extremism! 12:39:39 Probably hadn't had their morning coffee or something, hehe 12:39:47 \m/ 12:40:00 *pmd* goes get some coffee (really) 12:40:13 Hehe extreme anti-extremism 12:40:41 Guthur: I'm talking about the emacs-extremism^^ 12:40:43 -!- ejs [~eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:40:56 What you aren't using emacs 12:41:09 I think I should not have said anything ^^; 12:41:25 hehe, what ever works for you 12:41:36 That's how I see it, too 12:42:06 phryk: ... and soon you'll see that emacs will work better than most other stuff, for Lisp anyway. :) 12:42:07 *Guthur* silent writes places phryk name on the list.... 12:42:17 silently* 12:42:45 luis: I won't see it as I'm not using it. 12:42:51 xan_ [~xan@194.224.2.170] has joined #lisp 12:42:52 Also I'm doing other things besides lisp ;P 12:43:54 Mhh When implementing quicksort, what do I take as the pivot? The element in the middle of the list I want to sort? 12:45:35 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:45:42 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 12:45:50 ejs [~eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 12:45:53 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 12:46:24 phryk: taking a random element is one way. 12:46:51 Will it work just as well if i just take the first element? 12:47:03 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 12:47:35 phryk: taking the first element works terribly for already sorted or mostly sorted sequences 12:48:31 But it works^^ 12:48:46 Then I'll just implement it with that, and try to optimize it later 12:49:03 Lots of sort techniques work, it doesn't make them good 12:49:47 Heh, if a sort-technique doesn't work, it wouldn't be much of a sort-technique, would it? :) 12:49:50 phryk: oh, you can pick any element, yeah. 12:50:47 Art Of Computer Programming Vol 3 has a detailed study of quite a number of sort techniques 12:50:56 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 12:50:58 It is quite heavy going though 12:51:41 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 12:52:00 'Algorithms in [insert language de jour here]' also has some coverage, and is a little less intimidating than AOCP 12:52:07 Well I don't have the aim, to construct the most-efficient qs-implementation ever, just thought it would be nice to learn lisp 12:52:10 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:52:20 Man, I use far too many commata 12:53:00 xinming [~hyy@125.109.240.170] has joined #lisp 12:53:03 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-108-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 12:53:10 phryk: not a good example, on lists. 12:53:38 Why not? 12:54:12 they're a poor data structure for random access 12:55:03 Yeah, I have no Idea how to implement the random access thing 12:55:21 but taking (pop unsorted) for a pivot seems easy enough 12:55:24 you could use a vector instead. 12:56:11 Maybe later as optimization later on. If I restart it with a different thing right now, I'll just be more confused 12:57:17 blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 13:00:13 Guthur_ [~michael@host86-150-202-161.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:02:25 aw [~aw@141.76.6.51] has joined #lisp 13:03:50 -!- Guthur [~michael@host86-150-202-161.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:03:58 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:05:17 Mh 13:05:21 It does SOMETHING 13:05:45 -!- Trystam [~Tristam@cpe-67-242-195-25.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:05:47 when will it do EVERYTHING? 13:05:57 I have no idea about that 13:06:06 But I'm listening to really nice music, right now. 13:06:09 -!- aw [~aw@141.76.6.51] has quit [Client Quit] 13:06:10 *phryk* ~ Nirvana - Territorial Pissings :: Nevermind 13:06:47 you better keep that in secret 13:06:58 -!- ejs [~eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:07:20 http://npaste.de/Tt/ ^^; 13:07:37 HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:08:32 luis: http://common-lisp.net/gitweb?p=projects/cffi/cffi.git;a=summary 13:10:05 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 13:10:36 aw [~aw@141.76.6.51] has joined #lisp 13:11:50 ejs [~eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 13:14:54 Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-67-242-195-25.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:15:05 -!- pkhuong_ is now known as pkhuong 13:15:57 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-67-242-195-25.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:16:23 Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-67-242-195-25.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:16:59 -!- TeMPOraL [~user@wifi-wpa.agh.edu.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:21:17 -!- ejs [~eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:24:00 *udzinari* recalls a great quote about the way we build abstractions in our minds in some lisp retaled book, but continuously fails to find it, Aarrgghh! :/ 13:26:00 ejs [~eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 13:26:24 i don't build abstractions, i use linked neurons for everything 13:26:30 no wonder random access is so slow 13:28:58 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:32:26 somecodehere [~ingvar@16.198.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 13:32:29 -!- aw [~aw@141.76.6.51] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3-dev] 13:32:43 asarch [~asarch@189.229.66.9] has joined #lisp 13:33:22 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-22-10.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:35:00 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 13:42:16 Sumpen [Sumpen@138.199.68.15] has joined #lisp 13:43:40 stassats: you could build an index. Brains are optimized for 3D geospatial indexes. 13:44:39 stassats: random access is also very very slow because our brains use a very very slow microarchitecture 13:45:40 aw [~aw@141.76.6.51] has joined #lisp 13:46:28 -!- Guthur_ is now known as Guthur 13:49:29 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-67-242-195-25.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:50:13 Regenaxer [~Baldur@pd9568a7a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:51:55 -!- j4K0b [~j4k0bk@93.160.119.14] has quit [] 13:52:20 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 13:52:29 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 13:53:50 it's not slow, the speed just isn't uniform. There's a lot of caching layers involved. 13:55:12 and for some reason it caches some junk all the time 13:55:26 no garbage collecting, unless you're drunk 13:55:31 The GC is faulty 13:55:55 dlowe: it is slow. If not for parallelism, it would be completely unusable 13:56:21 what parallelism? 13:57:04 stassats: brain manages to work only because of parallelism 13:57:30 quantum level parallelism 13:57:33 this is runs the illusion of serial consciousness 13:57:34 but i can't think in parallel 13:57:40 Guthur: nothing quantum about it 13:58:01 stassats: you can think only about one thing at a time, but you need a highly parallel machine to do that. 13:58:05 p_l quantum as in the minimum physical quantity 13:58:20 Plus there are many independent threads running around, on specialized hw, that allow you to have the time to think 13:58:31 i.e. processing all the light photons in parallel 13:58:50 As stassats mentioned there is very limited capacity for high level parallelism 13:59:08 ASau`` [~user@77.246.231.56] has joined #lisp 14:00:06 -!- ASau` [~user@77.246.231.56] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:00:26 the brain is a vector (vs scalar) processing unit 14:00:48 minion: do you have brains? 14:00:49 here i am, brain the size of a planet, and all i do is answer your silly questions all day... maybe you have time to have brains 14:00:56 so, although you're thinking in only one thing, you require parallel execution 14:01:20 hehe it's Marv 14:01:32 TeMPOraL [~user@wifi-wpa.agh.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 14:01:43 stassats: I added another function to swap-bytes 14:01:57 pmd: actually, a cluster of heterogenous vector units 14:02:31 the other threads are services that run with higher priviledges. you can control some of them (breathing) but not all of them 14:02:52 milanj [~milanj_@79.101.181.213] has joined #lisp 14:03:14 well, they are actually separate processing units 14:03:40 fe[nl]ix: i see. there is an issue with failing to inline when the type is unknown, it can be solved with a deftransform, but i want first to understand more clearly how the whole thing works in SBCL 14:04:12 stassats: ok 14:04:16 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-11-47-237.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:04:41 -!- konr [~user@201.82.133.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:05:31 and then to understand how things work in ccl 14:07:33 Murdoc [~uhhh@host86-183-172-123.range86-183.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 14:08:44 so ASDF2 doesn't create a temporary package anymore? 14:09:18 -!- Murdox [~uhhh@host86-174-164-94.range86-174.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:09:59 fe[nl]ix: meh. Those last few commits have some lame commit messages. :) 14:10:46 luis: they're my creation :P 14:10:48 So 14:11:32 http://npaste.de/Tw/ 14:12:04 fe[nl]ix: btw, I think it's spelled Groveller, with two ells. 14:12:25 luis: I'll remember that :D 14:12:51 I'm having trouble with the scoping of "pivot". How do I keep the (setq pivot ) appearing in recursed function calls from overwriting the pivot of higher levels? 14:13:05 oh, it could be done without deftransform, and definition becomes nicer: (defun swap-bytes-32 (integer) (swap-bytes-32 integer)) 14:15:05 phryk: you made several mistakes there, brb I'll try correcting it 14:15:18 Okay, thanks 14:15:18 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:16:26 hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-112-147.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 14:18:00 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:18:51 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-112-147.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:18:55 hefner_ [~hefner@ppp-58-9-112-147.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 14:19:09 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 14:19:51 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757c4c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 14:20:59 phryk: what did you use as guide to writing that? 14:21:11 *p_l* got lost in what looks like Scheme transplanted into CL 14:21:24 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quicksort 14:21:40 The pseudocode of that page 14:21:58 did you understand it? 14:21:59 http://www.algorithmist.com/index.php/Quicksort#Alternative_definition_in_Common_Lisp <--- have an example of CL version 14:22:18 stassats: the pseudocode? yes 14:22:21 at least i think so 14:22:43 phryk: unfortunately you rewrote it rather badly in CL 14:23:10 i mean "why it works?" because i can translate code without understanding it, and then have troubles 14:23:12 common lisp has IF? O_o 14:23:27 naturally 14:23:31 stassats: yes, i understand 14:23:40 http://paste.lisp.org/display/21188 <--- another example 14:23:55 phryk: CL is not LISP 1.0, it has IF :) 14:24:14 where's the difference to cond? 14:24:20 only one form? 14:24:28 only two forms 14:24:47 unless and when have only one form 14:24:55 ah yeah, test and whatever i want executed 14:24:55 UNLESS and WHEN 14:25:19 no, test, consequence, [alternative] 14:25:27 "no" is mine 14:27:39 Why does the implementation of algorithmist have an optional argument for the function doing the greater/less check? 14:28:13 seems like a reasonable default 14:29:05 because you wouldn't have to write N versions for N functions 14:29:27 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 14:29:38 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.56.6] has joined #lisp 14:29:55 Gee I need meat to think 14:30:41 you need to think to get some meat 14:31:05 "Waldemar Horwat -- who was at one time the lead Javascript developer at AOL-Time-Warner-Netscape -- once told me that he considered Javascript to be just another syntax for Common Lisp" 14:31:07 lol 14:32:24 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has quit [Quit: -arividerchi] 14:34:36 -!- Kirkland1r is now known as TheKirklander 14:34:55 Murdox [~uhhh@host86-180-86-7.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 14:36:21 fe[nl]ix: JavaScript has confirmed relationship with Lisp family, including some early implementations being even more lispy or at least implemented partially in CL 14:36:59 -!- Murdoc [~uhhh@host86-183-172-123.range86-183.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:37:02 I've never known Common Lisp to invisibly munge my data into strings behind my back and keep running just long enough to obscure where the error really was before it all blows up 14:37:38 http://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla/source/js2/semantics/ 14:38:06 there's your initial implementation of JavaScript in Common Lisp 14:38:07 but hey, maybe his CL experience is different than mine. 14:38:33 -!- hefner_ is now known as hefner 14:38:49 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031482.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 14:38:58 -!- aw [~aw@141.76.6.51] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:39:28 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:39:33 hefner: or the invisible munching was caused later by some implementation decisions people don't want to think about ? :D 14:40:10 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-doujnkwjrzgumkky] has left #lisp 14:40:28 -!- ejs [~eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:42:19 carlocci [~nes@93.37.194.219] has joined #lisp 14:44:15 -!- TeMPOraL [~user@wifi-wpa.agh.edu.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:46:17 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 14:46:47 -!- zeroish [~zeroish@c-69-248-213-88.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:51:37 aw [~aw@141.76.6.51] has joined #lisp 14:52:17 -!- tcr 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seconds] 15:57:41 Murdoc [~uhhh@host86-183-24-178.range86-183.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 15:58:58 -!- stis_i8 [~chatzilla@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:59:25 -!- Murdox [~uhhh@host86-186-33-74.range86-186.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:02:13 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:03:11 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:06:43 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-53-76.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: HG`] 16:07:27 Edward__ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-1-127.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:07:36 -!- CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:07:58 what are google's official programming languages? 16:08:15 lisp 16:09:22 WePac [~bubble@p54AA44B5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:09:42 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-108-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:10:43 What's an official programming language, anyway.. 16:14:36 -!- moeffju is now known as moeffju[Away] 16:14:52 leo2007: C++, Java and Python 16:15:00 well, C/C++ 16:15:01 foom, heh, was that an attempt to prevent a diversion into offtopic? 16:15:21 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 16:15:32 leo2007: Lisp is unfortunately not allowed on the internal projects, most of the time. Now they probably are going to add Goo as well 16:18:23 HG` [~HG@85.8.72.4] has joined #lisp 16:18:31 goo, dialect of scheme? 16:18:53 stassats: no, a new Algol-style language from Google 16:19:01 You mean Go? 16:19:04 i thought it was "Go" 16:19:05 ah, yes 16:19:10 one o too much 16:19:10 Lithos [~chatzilla@DSLPool-net209-213.wctc.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:50 people do all sorts of crazy things just not to use Lisp 16:21:33 -!- somecodehere [~ingvar@16.198.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:21:34 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:22:18 stassats: well, that's quite easy to understand... did you see all these parenthesis ? 16:22:29 what parenthesis? 16:22:40 in lisp 16:22:59 never noticed them, now that you told me 16:23:32 lemoinem: What parentheses? 16:23:41 (that's certainly a language the devil created itself :P) 16:23:59 lemoinem: you stop noticing them very fast 16:24:22 p_l: ... that was a troll ... (: 16:24:39 devinus [~devinus@65.107.181.222.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #lisp 16:25:08 hrm, what does CL call "prepending to the head" and "appending to the tail" ? 16:25:08 but i noticed a lot of curly braces in C-like languages, and { looks like devil's horns 16:25:10 mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has joined #lisp 16:25:12 car/cdr ? 16:25:30 i have no idea /noob 16:25:41 clhs append 16:25:41 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_append.htm 16:26:16 Murdox [~uhhh@host86-173-174-108.range86-173.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:26:50 car/cdr are for accessing and modifying head and tail cells of a cons cell 16:27:20 well, this is all boring actually 16:27:27 does anyone still sell space cadet keyboards? 16:27:28 minion: please tell devinus about gentle 16:27:28 devinus: have a look at gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 16:27:39 -!- Murdoc [~uhhh@host86-183-24-178.range86-183.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:27:49 minion: please tell devinus about PCL 16:27:50 devinus: please look at PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 16:28:09 unnoob yourself! 16:28:13 -!- Murdox [~uhhh@host86-173-174-108.range86-173.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:28:16 Murdox [~uhhh@host86-178-179-179.range86-178.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:29:34 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:29:38 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has joined #lisp 16:30:45 Murdoc [~uhhh@host86-176-35-93.range86-176.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:32:01 abend [~alx@67.136.131.11] has joined #lisp 16:32:39 asarch [~asarch@187.132.114.4] has joined #lisp 16:32:42 CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 16:33:01 -!- Murdox [~uhhh@host86-178-179-179.range86-178.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:33:03 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:33:25 mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has joined #lisp 16:34:01 smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:34:09 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:34:48 blandest [~user@79.112.105.1] has joined #lisp 16:34:56 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:35:03 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-252-179.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:39:04 -!- CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Quit: f06 $$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$] 16:41:13 -!- revel0 [~revel0@212.88.117.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:43:58 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 16:45:25 gentle introduction goes quite in depth regarding lists and programming style (imperative, applicative, recursive) 16:46:01 I normally recommed it after PCL (PCL is a great "hook") 16:47:24 me4 [opera@091-141-023-044.dyn.orange.at] has joined #lisp 16:47:59 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:50:31 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 16:53:10 -!- WePac [~bubble@p54AA44B5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:54:44 -!- me4 [opera@091-141-023-044.dyn.orange.at] has left #lisp 16:57:38 WePac [~bubble@p54AA69E3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:58:25 p_l: thanks for the info. 16:59:47 leo2007: planning on working there? :) 17:00:23 p_l: not really. Just curious about what languages big companies are using. 17:00:32 p_l: you work for google? 17:00:53 leo2007: no, but I once got a little way into the application process 17:05:53 TeMPOraL [~user@wifi-wpa.agh.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 17:05:58 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.77.70.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:06:47 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 17:08:29 -!- ejs [~eugen@tarelka.tenet.odessa.ua] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:09:06 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-168-128-117.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:09:26 -!- HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:10:53 slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 17:11:16 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 17:11:33 stis_i8 [~chatzilla@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 17:11:40 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 17:12:11 -!- WePac [~bubble@p54AA69E3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:13:26 maden [~maden@dsl-150-179.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 17:14:22 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-252-179.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 17:14:57 CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 17:15:24 powerje [~powerje@adsl-75-49-18-32.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:16:57 I'm trying to write a function to split a list based on a test that is passed in (<, >= etc) but I get an error saying my test is undefined 17:17:03 http://pastebin.org/258513 17:17:12 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@mk093111054152.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:17:49 powerje: if you want to call the test parameter as a function, use funcall. 17:19:20 Murdox [~uhhh@host86-182-65-122.range86-182.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 17:19:20 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:19:24 sorry i went to lunch 17:19:56 oh nice, thanks stassats 17:20:47 Should it look like this Xach? http://pastebin.org/258528 17:21:55 powerje: No. 17:21:58 -!- Murdoc [~uhhh@host86-176-35-93.range86-176.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:22:07 powerje: (funcall test ...) would be an improvement. 17:23:28 Ah thank you :) 17:25:11 -!- devinus [~devinus@65.107.181.222.ptr.us.xo.net] has left #lisp 17:25:15 WePac [~bubble@p54AA69E3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:25:34 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 17:25:39 hello 17:26:11 -!- stis_i8 [~chatzilla@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:26:53 astalla [~astalla@93-36-229-184.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 17:30:41 -!- WePac [~bubble@p54AA69E3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:32:36 -!- p_l [plasek@gateway/shell/rootnode.net/x-awszenhhsbnxtdza] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:34:44 qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has joined #lisp 17:35:02 Murdoc [~uhhh@host86-173-174-149.range86-173.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 17:36:36 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:36:52 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:37:33 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:37:34 -!- Murdox [~uhhh@host86-182-65-122.range86-182.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:38:02 t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B20042F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:38:58 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 17:43:58 WePac [~bubble@p54AA69E3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:44:57 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:48:44 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 17:50:45 pinterface` [~pixel@c-98-240-86-73.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:57:21 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:57:49 hey, how can i make either sbcl or ccl not to overcommit memory? 17:58:09 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:58:23 -!- WePac [~bubble@p54AA69E3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:00:07 Murdox [~uhhh@host86-173-174-149.range86-173.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:00:36 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-18-196.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:03:00 -!- Murdoc [~uhhh@host86-173-174-149.range86-173.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:04:16 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 18:04:47 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-18-196.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:05:18 Dodek: --dynamic-space-size and --heap-reserve respectively 18:05:35 WePac [~bubble@p54AA69E3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:08:59 stassats: ok, thank you very much 18:12:29 but it's probably better just not to care, unless you do 18:12:34 marioxcc [~user@200.77.70.34] has joined #lisp 18:14:43 where's that joke about someone finding/stealing some code from somewhere and deducing it was lisp because it ended like ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) ? 18:14:57 almost everywhere 18:15:10 in "non funny jokes" section 18:15:11 -!- myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:15:48 second only to "Lithp is tho thexy!" category of jokes 18:17:01 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-109-rhwh-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:17:36 i'm not finding it in google 18:17:46 pmd: really? try adding more ) 18:19:33 myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 18:20:09 lol 18:20:43 -!- Regenaxer [~Baldur@pd9568a7a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #lisp 18:20:59 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.112.122] has joined #lisp 18:21:37 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-18-196.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:14 pmd: it's not funny because there's not a grain of truth to it. People don't nest parens that deep, not even in Lisp 18:22:38 brucio did. once. 18:22:44 I guess technically you could put a whole program into one form. 18:22:57 you could, but ¿what's the point? 18:23:07 you could also use so many nested {} in C 18:23:19 but no one does in C, nor in Lisp 18:23:49 loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has joined #lisp 18:24:26 daniel___ [~daniel@p5082CD58.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:25:03 jajcloz [~jaj@2002:4855:eb9a:0:219:e3ff:fe02:96b8] has joined #lisp 18:25:21 Is there a term that means "function or macro" without specifying either one? 18:25:57 dlowe: it's funny because people don't nest parens that deep :D 18:26:09 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has joined #lisp 18:26:20 pmd: that's not what my non-lisper friends think 18:26:35 dlowe: what do they think? 18:26:53 pmd: they think you do end up with parens that deep 18:27:01 parolang: Maybe "form" 18:27:05 oh! i thought they thought it was not funny 18:27:25 marioxcc: hmm...I'll have to think about that, thanks 18:27:27 (quote ...) is a form (loop ...) is a form, (+ ...) is a form 18:27:29 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 18:27:35 parolang: :) 18:27:46 I thought form includes the arguments though? 18:27:47 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082EA03.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:27:59 well, anyway, it's like the 10 types of people joke: most of my friends think i'm dumb even after explaining it (the others know what binary is and laught a bit) 18:29:11 informatic jokes aren't too funny anyway 18:29:19 -!- powerje [~powerje@adsl-75-49-18-32.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: powerje] 18:29:54 the ones related to the fact Lisp use parens are annoying 18:30:12 ¿why isn't there jokes about the {} of C/C++/Java or the spaces in python? 18:30:19 how can i statically compile my program with ecl? 18:30:32 marioxcc: IMHO, it's the same people who refuse to see past the parenthesis. 18:30:48 -!- WePac [~bubble@p54AA69E3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:30:55 parolang: yeah, very likely :( 18:31:59 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:32:48 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-18-196.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:33:17 <_3b> acl2 has a form with )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) 18:33:42 heh 18:34:26 I am using bordeaux-threads on SBCL. I know that a thread is waiting on a lock hold by some other thread. Can I see who is holding the lock? 18:37:55 blandest: sb-thread:mutex-owner 18:38:39 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0103-86-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:39:14 nyef [~nyef@pool-64-223-150-41.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:16 http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/browse_thread/thread/36b31ed8d99c08b5/128b968ff7ba3336?lnk=gst#128b968ff7ba3336 18:39:21 ost: Thanks! 18:39:43 should have read the SBCL manual :) 18:39:44 _3b: at least they know it's correct 18:42:14 WePac [~bubble@p54AA69E3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:42:21 -!- amaron [~amaron@greenzone.copyleft.no] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:42:44 pmd: is there a scheme joke about a program beginning with a page full of open parens? 18:42:45 -!- 77CAANBHL [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:44:27 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:44:45 Traveler [~traveler@c-0f5fe353.732-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 18:44:59 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 18:46:51 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 18:47:00 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 18:47:10 -!- Harag [~Harag@41.56.30.128] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:47:26 Harag [~Harag@41.56.30.128] has joined #lisp 18:47:38 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 18:48:04 ost: there ought to be! :D but scheme is just a lisp-1 18:48:21 Dodek: http://ecls.sourceforge.net/new-manual/ch24s03.html 18:48:59 Dodek: if you dig around in the examples, there's one that uses that. 18:49:16 hefner: when i provide "-static" to ld-flags, linker says it can't find -lecl 18:50:47 I guess you don't have a static version of libecl around. I don't know if it builds one by default (it didn't on my Mac), nor if/how to build one. Presumably you ask the configure script politely. 18:50:51 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-18-196.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:51:37 <_3b> hmm, can't seem to do multiline searches with google code search, so can't compare to C code :( 18:52:21 -!- bfein [~morik@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has left #lisp 18:52:21 -!- xan_ [~xan@194.224.2.170] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:52:24 <_3b> (at least aside from the generated code in various scheme compilers with 30+ } in a row, but generated code doesn't count) 18:52:36 Given ECL is under some asinine GPL-derived license, I've never investigated static linking (a shame, as it would help toward solving some performance issues), and copy the libecl.[dll/so/whatever] into the same directory as my executable. 18:52:40 _3b: ¿what's the difference?, you can search for x = 2; i++; just as (setf x 2) (incf i) 18:53:09 so it's enough to put the .so along with the executable? 18:53:52 Heh. ::: UNEXPECTED-SUCCESS (:RUN-PROGRAM :INHERIT-STDIN) due to NIL: "NIL" 18:54:06 <_3b> marioxcc: can't search for }[\n\t ]*} though (replacing \n and \t with newline and tab) 18:54:30 Dodek: I can't remember whether Linux will search for it there unless you hack LD_LIBRARY_PATH first. 18:54:37 works on Windows :) 18:54:38 <_3b> marioxcc: (specifically, trying to compare to the ))))))) in lisp code to }}}} in c) 18:54:51 powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:1220:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has joined #lisp 18:55:36 _3b: i don't understand, but nevermind 18:55:36 netytan [~netytan@85.211.16.208] has joined #lisp 18:55:42 hefner: oh, currently i'm doing a dirty execve hack to make it run 18:56:07 tritchey [~tritchey@173-110-65-76.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 18:56:44 _3b: worse, non-lisp languages will end up with something more like }])]}})] 18:57:32 <_3b> hefner: heh, was just about to mention ) }}) }}) }}) }}) }}) as an example of something i dislike about js 18:57:32 -!- powerje [~powerje@2002:4b31:1220:0:5ab0:35ff:fe80:7cd2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:57:34 at least in Lisp you don't have to care about what kind of closing character it is and can just bulldozer over them to straighten the closing parens out. I wonder if Clojure has this problem. 18:57:44 xan_ [~xan@194.224.2.170] has joined #lisp 18:57:51 ECL is under LGPL, so there really aren't any issues, except for illiteracy. 18:57:56 _3b: this bugged me in Python too. 18:58:04 powerje [~powerje@75.49.18.32] has joined #lisp 18:58:30 Well, LGPL imposes restrictions on replacability of the component. So you probably don't want to statically link 18:58:34 *_3b* was stopped by the whitespace, so didn't get that far in python 18:59:00 oh right, this was bothering me in JS just the other night. I knew there was a reason this was fresh on my mind. 18:59:04 3b: Are you stopped by style conventions in general? 18:59:27 Zhivago: for google code queries? pretty much. 18:59:52 <_3b> Zhivago: no, i like the extra redundancy of having syntax my editor can parse 19:00:21 <_3b> (well, yes in that context :) 19:00:49 3b: Like meaningful whitespace syntax? :) 19:01:21 <_3b> Zhivago: meaningful whitespace lacks the redundancy i want 19:01:22 -!- xan_ [~xan@194.224.2.170] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:01:22 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.77.70.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:01:53 ejs [~eugen@94-248-35-23.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 19:02:03 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0103-86-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 19:02:23 *_3b* isn't suggesting other people wouldn't/shouldn't prefer it, just that it interferes with the way i do thing 19:02:33 -!- pinterface` [~pixel@c-98-240-86-73.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has left #lisp 19:02:43 xan_ [~xan@194.224.2.170] has joined #lisp 19:02:59 3b: I think you have an interesting notion of redundancy. 19:03:42 <_3b> Zhivago: i mean the structure implied by the indentation is redundant to the structure of the (non-whitespace) syntax 19:04:17 <_3b> so if the editor adjust the indentation based on the syntax, and it doesn't go where i expect, i know something is wrong 19:04:43 <_3b> using indentation directly doesn't allow that 19:04:49 I'm with _3b on that. 19:05:25 When programming in Python it annoys me that I can't (loop repeat do down-arrow tab) to check that everything is okay. 19:05:37 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-78-37-67.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:05:54 Plus not being able to jump from the bottom of something (function, class, whatever) to the top is annoying. 19:06:21 Redundancy is good for comprehension. 19:06:39 That's a tiny little detail that efficiency-freaks tend to forget. 19:07:18 Ok, so your problem is that you want the editor to adjust the indentation, and it isn't set up to do that based on how you work with whitespace. 19:09:09 Zhivago: No, the problem is that instead of having two sources of information about the program structure, the editor only has one. Therefore, it can't notice any mismatch between the two and bring it to your attention. 19:10:03 <_3b> hmm, actually highlighting poorly indented code would be even better :) 19:10:16 Redundancy and comprehensibility are largely orthogonal, or in other words, it doesn't really make it easier to understand things if they are repeated, or in other words, the repetition of information to increase redundancy doesn't really improve comprehension. 19:10:22 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:10:49 Zhivago: I take it you're neither a linguist nor a cyberneticist? 19:11:11 Odin: Your talent at non-comprehension is kicking in again. 19:11:47 Zhivago: Yeah, well, it seems quite well matched by your ability to bullshit, so it's not as if I care. 19:11:48 Odin: Redundancy and having sufficient information for error correction are different things. 19:12:29 Odin: Beyond a certain point redundancy reduces comprehension. 19:13:09 really? I thought they were orthogonal. 19:13:51 Ah, illiteracy -- the modern plague. 19:14:47 Oh, sorry. *Largely* orthogonal. That makes all the difference in the world. 19:14:48 As a historian, I feel obliged to point out that illiteracy has gone significantly down in the modern era. 19:15:37 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:16:44 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-198-139.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 19:17:32 marioxcc [~user@200.77.70.34] has joined #lisp 19:21:25 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 19:21:27 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-225-199-179.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:25:28 -!- asarch [~asarch@187.132.114.4] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:25:51 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-156-147-150.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:25:59 -!- powerje [~powerje@75.49.18.32] has quit [Quit: powerje] 19:27:53 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:59 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 19:32:20 powerje 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[~jmarcelin@adsl-10-101-120.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:50:43 -!- dym [~dym@217.20.175.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:51:34 (defclass foo (bar baaz) ()) ; given foo, how do I get the list '(bar baaz) ? 20:52:06 bytecolor: By clever use of the MOP, probably something to do with SLOTS. 20:52:08 clhs error 20:52:08 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_error.htm 20:52:36 hrm 20:52:36 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-101-120.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:52:48 p_l [~plasek@gateway/shell/rootnode.net/x-vxpmthftfdypzqky] has joined #lisp 20:54:03 bytecolor: class-direct-superclasses in your implementation's MOP package, probably 20:54:24 Oh, right. superclasses, not slots. 20:54:26 My bad. 20:55:09 ah, so I need to look in sb-mop, all sorts of goodies in there 20:55:33 bytecolor: I recommend loading closer-mop anytime you want to deal with MOP 20:56:33 Soulman1 [~knute@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 20:58:40 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-225-199-113.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:59:44 that's lovely, thanks 21:02:58 -!- davertron [~Dave@vt-sb-1.logicsupply.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:03:17 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-225-199-113.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:03:22 dym [~dym@217.20.175.226] has joined #lisp 21:04:37 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 21:06:09 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:06:22 -!- ejs [~eugen@94-248-35-23.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:06:50 -!- billitch1 [~billitch@rob92-1-82-67-155-88.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:08:48 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-101-171.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:17 -!- WePac [~bubble@p54AA69E3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: adios] 21:09:36 Does anyone here have an OSX system with SBCL built from source? 21:10:36 nyef: I have a 1.0.4.107 built from source, does that count? 21:10:55 Unfortunately not, I was more thinking a 1.0.38 or so. 21:11:24 I was hoping for a report of someone testing the patch in my last email to sbcl-devel on darwin. 21:11:28 *hefner* has a 1.0.37 21:11:59 I just need a report of the result of run-program.impure.lisp, at that. 21:12:42 No, this is a cleanup to 1.0.37.47, unfortunately. 21:13:41 And a more recent tweak on top of that, the revision of which is escaping me. 21:15:38 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-101-171.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:16:40 nyef: i've compiled 1.0.37 recently. sb-posix needed a patch to work on 10.6 21:18:10 andreer: Then would you mind applying the patch from http://article.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.steel-bank.devel/14881 and doing a (cd tests && sh ./run-tests.sh run-program.impure.lisp) ? No need to rebuild the system, it's a tests-only patch. 21:19:37 nyef: i'll try that. 21:19:45 Thank you. 21:19:47 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:20:29 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-101-98.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:44 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-108-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:23:07 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031482.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:24:03 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:25:18 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-22-10.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:25:35 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 21:27:15 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [] 21:27:24 -!- milanj [~milanj_@79.101.181.213] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:27:30 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 21:27:58 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031482.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 21:28:06 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Client Quit] 21:30:14 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 21:31:07 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 21:31:07 enthymeme [~kraken@130.166.209.8] has joined #lisp 21:32:41 tan__ [tt@unaffiliated/samuel9999] has joined #lisp 21:34:19 I am trying to build my first lisp application. It will be a GUI one. As I am experienced with GTK, I took a look at the bindings but one thing occurred to me: Would be too stupid to code the engine in lisp and the GUI in, say, python, and make them communicate? 21:35:15 didi: That's not terribly stupid, but if you're using GTK, how is Python a benefit? 21:36:41 Rather, how is Python better than Lisp for GTK? 21:36:42 sellout: Nothing, I guess. It was just an example. Maybe because I am comfortable with pygtk. And my SO doesn't seem to distribute the GTK bindings for lisp. 21:36:56 s/SO/OS 21:38:39 -!- eugu [~Miranda@212.1.246.237] has quit [Quit: eugu] 21:39:43 minion: tell didi about clbuild 21:39:44 didi: look at clbuild: clbuild is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 21:39:46 didi: the question is 21:39:52 ¿why to use python when you can use lisp? 21:40:02 -!- myu2 [~myu2@w179122.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:40:38 python sentences can always be translated to common lisp, but not vice versa. IMO using python is pointless, because of the same 21:41:27 marioxcc: Some reasons, as I stated before. But let me say again that `python' was an example. Could have been C, as I know GTK+ in C too. 21:41:36 oh, ok 21:41:47 dcrawford: Nice, I will look into that. 21:41:57 -!- gospch [~gospch@unaffiliated/gospch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:42:16 didi much of what's in clbuild are commonly used libraries 21:42:31 -!- HG` [~HG@85.8.72.4] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:43:06 didi: wheter it's stupid or not depends on what are you doing, but usually it's better to use only one langauge, to avoid the effort and runtime-time of writting/running the link 21:44:34 Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@206-248-137-185.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 21:45:47 -!- Lithos [~chatzilla@DSLPool-net209-213.wctc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:46:07 marcelinollano [~marcelino@80.30.186.12] has joined #lisp 21:46:09 marioxcc: I guess you're right. Maybe I am been naive. The concept seemed cool. 21:47:22 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 21:47:58 didi: if you require extreme speed and flexibility, at same time 21:48:10 then you can write the core in low level (C or ASM) and rest in Lisp 21:48:14 as GNU Emacs does 21:48:25 it's a C core than runs Emacs Lisp 21:48:43 hadronzoo_ [~hadronzoo@24.40.129.225] has joined #lisp 21:49:31 marioxcc: At the present time I am running from `speed'. ;) Kind of tired of programming in C. 21:49:31 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@24.40.129.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:49:31 -!- hadronzoo_ is now known as hadronzoo 21:49:51 sounds like a losing battle 21:50:23 didi: Be careful, some lispers moved to lisp to get away from C, only to end up hacking the C bits of the lisp implementation they use. 21:50:43 C is a very good langauge IMO 21:50:58 but C is middle level, most Lisp are high level 21:51:07 nyef: I will be. ;) 21:51:25 so, there is little point in comparing one to the other 21:51:26 marioxcc: I really like C. Just tired. 21:51:27 Don't think of it as running from one language, C, but rather adding a new tool to your tool kit 21:51:40 didi: ok 21:51:40 Guthur: Right. 21:52:09 didi: along similar lines as what you were considering earlier: http://myblog.rsynnott.com/2007/10/making-cocoa-interface-for-common-lisp.html 21:54:09 hefner: Yes, it was what I had in mind. 21:54:33 http://www.cliki.net/GTK%20binding has a list of gtk CL bindings 21:54:41 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 21:54:49 myu2 [~myu2@w179122.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 21:55:32 marioxcc: C isn't particularly good for optimal code. 21:56:10 didi, also if you know qt -- http://common-lisp.net/project/commonqt/ 21:56:30 Zhivago: ¿why not? 21:56:44 dcrawford: I saw it. I guess I was a little sad that my OS don't ship the bindings, but one: cl-clg. 21:56:50 i'm not a C fan either, just i think it does well what it's supossed to do 21:56:53 -!- astalla [~astalla@93-36-229-184.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 21:57:15 didi, bah, usually the shipped bindings are all out of date anyway for CL 21:57:28 dcrawford: That is so true. 21:58:29 -!- myu2 [~myu2@w179122.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:59:28 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 21:59:30 i always install lisp (CL, scheme or EL) from source 21:59:56 marioxx: Well there are the issues of aliases (although restrict gives a workaround here) as well as the semantics of sequence points. 22:00:40 Zhivago: if you mean something like 22:00:42 int 22:00:59 alias (int x, int y) { return x + y; } 22:01:08 the good compilers will optimize that 22:01:31 well, provided the compiler know the source (is on same file or in included header) 22:01:34 marioxcc: No, that has nothing to do with that I am talking about. 22:01:38 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:01:54 marioxcc: Except with respect to sequence points, I guess -- in which case the compiler may not. 22:02:24 i don't know what do you mean, but i have to go off a couple of minutes, sorry 22:02:26 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 22:02:30 marioxx: Since a call in C is specified to have a sequence point between the evaluation of the operands and the call. 22:04:01 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 22:04:14 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-60-4.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 22:04:14 didi` [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 22:04:32 -!- tan__ [tt@unaffiliated/samuel9999] has left #lisp 22:06:06 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 22:06:21 lacedaemon [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 22:06:23 stis_ [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 22:07:04 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.77.70.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:07:04 pok_ [pok@tarrant.klingenberg.no] has joined #lisp 22:07:06 myu2 [~myu2@w179122.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 22:07:14 xristos` [~x@2001:470:8859:cafe:20c:29ff:fec5:e30a] has joined #lisp 22:07:30 marioxcc [~user@200.77.70.34] has joined #lisp 22:07:53 tic_ [~tic@c83-249-199-86.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 22:08:12 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:08:12 -!- loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:08:12 -!- stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:08:12 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-60-4.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:08:12 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:08:12 -!- kencausey [~ken@67.15.6.88] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:08:12 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:08:12 -!- Paraselene [~Not@79-67-148-135.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:08:12 -!- ecraven [~nex@octonex.swe.uni-linz.ac.at] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:08:12 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:08:12 -!- xristos [~x@2001:470:8859:cafe:20c:29ff:fec5:e30a] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:08:13 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:08:13 -!- gonzojive1 [~red@condi.Stanford.EDU] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:08:13 -!- tic [~tic@c83-249-199-86.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:08:13 -!- pok [pok@tarrant.klingenberg.no] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:08:13 -!- lacedaemon is now known as fe[nl]ix 22:08:48 Paraselene [~Not@79-67-148-135.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 22:08:54 I see what do you mean 22:09:24 but, ¿what must be the handling of sequence point for optimal performance? 22:10:05 gonzojive [~red@condi.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 22:10:07 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 22:10:30 kencausey [~ken@67.15.6.88] has joined #lisp 22:10:30 varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 22:10:34 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:10:49 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@24.40.129.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:10:49 sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has joined #lisp 22:11:49 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:12:02 loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has joined #lisp 22:13:25 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:14:25 -!- jasonx [jasonx@78-0-206-191.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:15:42 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:18:15 -!- quodlibetor [~user@146.95.31.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:18:51 -!- xan_ [~xan@194.224.2.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:19:08 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:19:10 jasonx [jasonx@78-1-135-36.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 22:19:11 -!- marcelinollano [~marcelino@80.30.186.12] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:19:19 I should have stopped reading pcl by the 13th chapter. The laters, specially the `practical' ones, makes me feel dumb when I try to code my own line. ;) 22:20:08 -!- myu2 [~myu2@w179122.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:22:41 It's ok, you can use it as motivation to improve. 22:25:39 ysph [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:26:24 Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@d207-6-77-199.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 22:26:49 silenius [~silenius@rrcs-64-183-24-50.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:28:46 ian_ [~ian@70-138-107-74.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:56 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:29:33 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181217253.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:29:48 -!- Edward__ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-1-127.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:31:00 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@24.40.129.225] has joined #lisp 22:31:04 Does anyone have a recommendation for the best Lisp-like language to learn (purpose: for my own amusement and to broaden my programming horizons)? Which out of CL, Scheme, Haskell and Clojure would give me the Lisp-y-est education? 22:31:54 CL. Haskell is wildly different 22:32:05 Scheme can be annoying due to differences between implementations 22:32:13 Clojure... well, if it rocks your boat 22:34:11 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:35:15 CL can be annoying due to differences between implementations as well, but there's at least more stuff in the CL standard than in the Scheme standard, meaning that you can go further without running into said annoyances. 22:35:52 but there's only really one scheme, PLT scheme. :) 22:36:11 foom: And Gambit. 22:36:12 And there's only one CL, SBCL. :-P 22:36:26 chicken! 22:36:45 Isn't there a "bigloo scheme", or am I misremembering? 22:36:55 And stalin, and... 22:37:02 Oh, there are a bunch, but PLT and Gambit are the ones people use. 22:37:12 Isn't there a bunch of different schemes, much like there's a bunch of different common lisps? 22:37:40  and a bunch of Cs, for that matter. 22:37:54 oh yeah, gambit, I used to use that on my mac waaaay back. 22:38:04 Odin-: No, the only C is GCC. 22:38:19 Pay no attention to MSVC, or anything from Intel. 22:38:20 Odin-: Yeah, but the variations between C impls is much smaller. For one thing, the FFI is built in ;) 22:38:29 sellout: No, it isn't. 22:38:41 I think there are quite a few more schemes around than cl. Probably a funciton of the specification complexity 22:38:42 There's two C impls, GCC and MSVC 22:38:44 they are *quite* different 22:38:51 nyef: There is only one GCC and glibc it its prophet? :> 22:39:14 other C impls attempt to be compatible with one or the other. 22:39:19 sellout: It's just that the ecosystem is primarily defined in terms of C, so most of the functions one is likely to run into aren't foreign. 22:39:32 nyef: That was my point. Hence the winking. 22:40:00 *Odin-* would like to point out that ISO C actually has a poorer ability to interface with the environment than ANSI Common Lisp. 22:40:03 Don't people use guile too? 22:40:17 The standardisation of the _rest_ of the C world comes from other places. 22:40:18 -!- stis_ [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:40:21 Mostly POSIX, though. 22:40:32 -!- didi` is now known as didi 22:40:47 Oh no, not POSIX again 22:41:10 ian_: scheme or common lisp will activate parts of your brain you didn't know were there 22:41:16 Guthur: I'm not going to get into an argument, don't worry. :p 22:41:32 bytecolor: As will many other languages. 22:41:45 -!- Unsichtbar [~irc-data@unaffiliated/appetite] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:42:05 *Odin-* suspects decent C would be a revelation to many compsci graduates these days 22:42:27 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 22:42:40 guile is horribly slow for complex apps, like Texmacs 22:42:53 which is a very cool app, but fsck it's slow 22:43:37 bytecolor: Really? That is a shame... I saw a presentation and it looked very cool. 22:43:41 TR2N [email@89.180.154.108] has joined #lisp 22:44:14 didi: it is, great for wysiwyg math 22:44:32 bytecolor: I mean guile, not texmacs. 22:44:41 ah 22:44:44 I don't know texmacs. 22:44:53 bytecolor yes that's what I've heard. However, since I'm primarily a Perl programmer, maybe my brain is already too damaged ;) 22:45:04 ian_: ahahaha 22:45:18 there were discussions to rebase emacs on guile. 22:45:22 foom: there's more than those two surely :) 22:45:28 bytecolor: I second chicken scheme :D 22:45:44 foom: ICC :) 22:45:46 nyef: I personally disregard GCC :P 22:45:49 ... "chicken haskell"? 22:46:01 nyef: not existant, afaik :D 22:46:15 Yeah, but it's the perfect lead-in to a chicken curry joke. 22:46:27 mmmm.. chicken curry. 22:46:27 nyef: *groan* 22:46:42 I'd love to see Texmacs implementd in cl 22:47:54 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:48:26 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@24.40.129.225] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 22:50:40 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 22:50:54 bytecolor: do it! 22:53:52 don't think my nerual net is up to the challenge ;) I studied the source for a while. It's a beast. 22:54:26 Well you know what they say.. it is not a beast unless it plays guitar. 22:55:33 Edward__ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-11-209.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:55:48 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:57:39 egn [~egn@li101-203.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 22:57:57 I thought about putting my amp on craigs list. '65 Super Reverb Reissue. It's just collecting dust. 22:59:01 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p54839D24.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:00:25 maybe you can get someone to write that texmacs for you as payment 23:00:30 curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:00:47 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:03:01 *didi* 's brain hurts 23:03:19 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h80n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 23:03:38 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1503031482.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:04:04 -!- ysph [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:04:53 didi: stop using it :) 23:05:42 schmx: But I use it so little already... 23:07:48 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 23:08:38 didi: So let it relax and heal a bit. If you're trying to gain muscular strength, you need to let yourself heal. Why would that not apply to the muscle between your ears? 23:08:56 -!- weirdo [~sthalik@c130-62.icpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:08:57 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:09:45 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: k] 23:09:52 nyef: Hum... Yes. Time to dinner. 23:10:13 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 23:10:28 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:11:26 *schmx* feels the panic. 23:11:41 My brain is going "but the brain is not a muscle. tell 'em! tell 'em!" 23:13:02 nyef: Brain doesn't have downtime 23:13:20 I thought it actually needed time to digest stuff. 23:13:31 schmx: it needs time, but it's not downtime 23:13:34 nor "rest" 23:14:00 the feeling of rest is actually the feeling your CL gets when it finishes a bigass GC round :P 23:14:03 a resting brain.. interesting. 23:14:37 abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has joined #lisp 23:14:40 My brain is at rest, least I hope so 23:16:06 Guthur: no such thing, I fear :) 23:16:26 your consciousness might be switched off, but that's what you get with stop-the-world gc ;P 23:16:43 I meant physically at rest, hehe 23:16:59 Last thing I want is my brain banging around inside my skull 23:21:19 heh 23:22:38 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 23:22:41 -!- ian_ [~ian@70-138-107-74.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 23:22:58 -!- Paraselene [~Not@79-67-148-135.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:23:19 Paraselene_ [~Not@79-67-148-135.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 23:24:53 -!- Paraselene_ [~Not@79-67-148-135.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:25:18 Paraselene_ [~Not@79-67-148-135.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 23:26:02 n 23:26:48 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:26:50 -!- Sumpen [Sumpen@138.199.68.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:27:46 -!- t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B20042F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:37:50 myu2 [~myu2@w179122.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 23:37:54 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:38:02 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-112-147.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: I want a chilito.] 23:38:21 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 23:39:58 -!- benny [~benny@i577A82E0.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:44:14 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-78-37-67.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:44:53 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:49:08 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:50:55 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 23:52:09 -!- Soulman1 [~knute@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 23:52:11 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]