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Other languages need it because they don't have lisp's macro? 01:24:38 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:25:33 tomoyuki28jp: don't forget CLOS' method combinations 01:26:05 p_l: oh yeah! 01:26:30 p_l: So AOP is basically trying to do the same thing? 01:27:11 fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 01:29:38 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:31:25 -!- gonzojive [~red@c-67-188-5-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive] 01:32:06 -!- Edward__ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-10-245.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 01:32:27 -!- fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:32:27 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-108-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:34:55 wakeup^ [~wakeup@koln-5d8155e9.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 01:36:00 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:36:58 -!- wakeup [~wakeup@koln-5d81768c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:40:09 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 01:41:18 -!- konr [~user@201.82.133.249] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:42:30 -!- Ralith_ is now known as Ralith 01:49:04 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 01:49:48 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-168-152-229.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:52:56 AOP can hook in to anything at all, tho 01:53:12 based on any pattern, even a wildcard match of the method name 01:53:20 fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 01:53:33 not that it's sensible to do that, in general :) 01:56:08 -!- peterbb [~peterbb@ves1-1x-dhcp356.uio.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:01:11 aw|rerun [~aw@p5DDA8F87.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:01:35 -!- curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:02:15 -!- cmatei 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02:21:25 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-225-199-251.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:22:34 tomoyuki28jp: AspectJ basically got created due to lack of *any* sensible combination in most Algol-derived languages 02:30:57 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:34:16 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:39:43 -!- felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has quit [Disconnected by services] 02:40:03 felideon [~felideon@adsl-64-197-235.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:43:27 wakeup [~wakeup@koln-5d81a53d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 02:43:47 -!- kvsari [~kvsari@203.171.93.21.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:44:32 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.42] has joined #lisp 02:47:21 -!- wakeup^ [~wakeup@koln-5d8155e9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:49:18 gruseom [~daniel@S01060026f2fdf187.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:55:40 kvsari [~kvsari@203.171.93.21.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:01:06 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-142-183.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:02:42 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 03:03:35 pnq [~gaiug@AC8311E9.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 03:04:15 -!- kvsari [~kvsari@203.171.93.21.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:04:21 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:04:30 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:10:10 kvsari [~kvsari@203.171.93.21.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:10:12 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:10:22 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-2-149-118.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:12:01 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 03:12:51 Shaftoe [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096727564.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 03:13:22 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0191-24-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:14:16 hello all. 03:14:57 hi 03:15:16 which would you say is better when creating a p-list: having a property (whose domain is boolean t/nil) be nil, or not having that property included in the plist to begin with. 03:15:17 e.g.. 03:15:34 (:foo t :bar nil) or (:foo t) 03:16:04 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 03:16:16 I'd say not having the property at all 03:17:58 YOu say that with consideration to symbolic/logic representation, or you say that with regards to performance (or both)? 03:18:06 if it doesn't matter, not having the property saves a couple conses.... but who cares really. 03:19:02 you can differentiate between to two cases using the third argument to get/getf, so it depends on intent. 03:19:10 the two* 03:22:31 Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 03:28:03 -!- marioxcc [~user@201.132.134.199] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:28:41 aja [~aja@unaffiliated/aja] has joined #lisp 03:30:04 -!- felideon [~felideon@adsl-64-197-235.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:34:37 joga [joga@rikki.fi] has joined #lisp 03:37:39 felideon [~felideon@adsl-64-197-235.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:38:26 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-168-152-229.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 03:39:10 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181217253.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 03:39:46 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 03:40:08 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:41:28 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:42:36 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@64.134.147.37] has joined #lisp 03:49:11 schoene [~mark@cpe-65-189-215-224.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:53:43 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 03:53:51 -!- beach` is now known as beach 03:54:05 Good morning! 03:56:21 -!- legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-55-138.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:57:43 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 04:00:27 hi beach 04:00:46 -!- schoene [~mark@cpe-65-189-215-224.neo.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 04:01:10 zelyu [~182ed347@gateway/web/freenode/x-dkryjlkguweyrgfd] has joined #lisp 04:07:02 -!- G0SUB [~ghoseb@unaffiliated/g0sub] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:07:36 enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-194-209-38.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:07:40 fe[nl]ix: Hey, how long are you going to be in Kuala Lumpur? 04:08:20 until August, probably 04:08:33 Nice! What's the weather like? 04:08:37 G0SUB [~ghoseb@unaffiliated/g0sub] has joined #lisp 04:09:11 *p_l* just loves security on vending machines 04:10:03 the cashbox isn't protected by password, but setting a text message on the display? yes 04:10:59 -!- zelyu [~182ed347@gateway/web/freenode/x-dkryjlkguweyrgfd] has quit [Quit: connexion reset by beer] 04:11:34 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-55-138.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 04:13:20 beach: 23 C at night, 31 C during the day. very high humidity 04:14:39 fe[nl]ix: Yeah, just looked up the forecast. Looks just like Ho Chi Minh city. 04:15:01 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 04:16:50 -!- necroforest [~jarred@pool-108-56-179-132.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:17:12 may I inquire as to what your business in Kuala Lumpur is? 04:19:53 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:20:07 slyrus_ [~slyrus@adsl-75-36-213-242.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:20:40 -!- etate [~meta@mon69-4-82-228-201-242.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:21:46 Shaftoe: telecom thingies 04:21:51 to incite revolution 04:22:03 heh. notice my nick 04:22:25 although I'm not part of that world. I only touched it in passing. 04:22:32 you do lisp in telecom thingies? 04:22:41 yes 04:22:50 really eh? may I inquire at what level? 04:23:43 gwynddyllyd [~yghorkers@201.19.11.138] has joined #lisp 04:26:51 -!- tcr [~tcr@29.182.48.60.brk02-home.tm.net.my] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:28:48 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:29:46 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:31:08 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181217253.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:31:50 HG` [~HG@xdsler076.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 04:31:57 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 04:34:47 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@64.134.147.37] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 04:35:40 tcr [~tcr@203.82.92.58] has joined #lisp 04:39:44 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 04:41:06 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:41:21 vng [~user@123.21.174.250] has joined #lisp 04:41:36 Good morning! 04:43:51 Hello vng! 04:44:00 hello beach 04:44:25 How are preparations going? 04:45:35 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-2-149-118.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:46:05 beach: It's fine. I have to buy many things 04:46:35 shofetim [~user@97-121-228-161.blng.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:46:46 beach: and think that what I should bring 04:47:02 Of course, yes. 04:48:23 beach: I haven't been in Paris, but I think that it is not an easy place 04:48:53 vng: Easy in what way? 04:49:15 -!- deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:49:18 beach: about living 04:49:24 -!- rme [rme@clozure-42E6C71B.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 04:49:24 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-123-78.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 04:49:44 vng: It's not too bad. Public transportation is great for instance! 04:50:07 Hello all.... Newbie here and I can't seem to figure this out. I am trying to construct an alist to pass as an argument to DRAKMA 04:50:11 beach: yes 04:50:15 (defun getFeed () 04:50:15 "Request feed of contacts" 04:50:15 (http-request *feed-URL* 04:50:15 :method :get 04:50:18 :additional-headers '((cons "Authorization" (concatenate 'string "GoogleLogin auth=" *Auth*))))) 04:50:21 04:50:26 minion: tell shofetim about lisppaste 04:50:27 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 04:50:46 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:51:15 shofetim pasted "constucting an alist" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99444 04:51:30 -!- gwynddyllyd [~yghorkers@201.19.11.138] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:52:02 How do I get the concat and the variable to be evaluted? 04:52:05 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 04:52:09 shofetim: That list is quoted, so the cons and the concatenate won't be evaluated. 04:52:30 when I remove the quote I get a syntax error... 04:52:31 shofetim: Don't quote the list. 04:52:53 Execution of a form compiled with errors.... 04:53:05 `(("Authorization" . ,(concatenate 'string "GoogleLogin auth=" *Auth*))) is one way 04:53:06 shofetim: Yes, because you can't construct lists with parentheses. You have to call a function to do that. 04:53:06 Compile-time error: 04:53:06 illegal function call 04:53:57 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:54:05 shofetim: Such as (list (cons "...") (concatenate ...)) 04:54:18 ok 04:54:26 thanks 04:54:32 rather (list (cons "..." (concatenate ...))) 04:54:43 right 04:54:53 shofetim: No problem. 04:55:11 or even, it's better to understand what's going on 04:55:22 stassats what does the ` and , do? I tried looking them up in the hyperspec and dont see them... 04:55:37 clhs ` 04:55:48 where is specbot when you need him? 04:56:38 http://l1sp.org/cl/2.4.6 04:57:06 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 04:57:08 aah... thanks much : ) 04:58:09 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-25-9-142.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 04:59:36 -!- Shaftoe [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096727564.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Shaftoe] 05:04:01 Regenaxer [~Baldur@pd9568a7a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 05:07:45 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsler076.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: HG`] 05:08:10 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-72-6.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:09:33 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:14:26 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 05:17:13 -!- Regenaxer [~Baldur@pd9568a7a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: BBL] 05:18:38 I used `(,foo ,bar) and `#(,foo ,bar) for a while, don't ask me why. I think my brain was counting characters. 05:19:37 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 05:20:20 "ya know bytecolor, if you use quasiquote you'll save one or two characters!" 05:21:25 Regenaxer [~Baldur@pd9568a7a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 05:22:26 ejs [~eugen@92.49.255.107] has joined #lisp 05:23:37 I hope I dont become a proponent of long-ass-symantic-inferring-symbol-names. 05:24:52 s/y/e 05:26:29 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 05:29:03 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:29:47 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 05:32:21 -!- felideon [~felideon@adsl-64-197-235.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:37:22 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 05:44:11 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 05:46:52 -!- wakeup [~wakeup@koln-5d81a53d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:48:47 wakeup [~wakeup@koln-5d81e6d6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 05:49:15 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:50:57 -!- mikezor [~mikael@c-e3e970d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:52:02 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:53:05 -!- shofetim [~user@97-121-228-161.blng.qwest.net] has left #lisp 05:54:25 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 05:57:07 hachiya [~hachiya@encyclical.net] has joined #lisp 05:58:06 mikezor [~mikael@c-e3e970d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 05:59:58 -!- aja [~aja@unaffiliated/aja] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:01:51 freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 06:04:41 jan247 [~jan247@tkt34.chikka.com] has joined #lisp 06:04:41 -!- jan247 [~jan247@tkt34.chikka.com] has quit [Changing host] 06:04:41 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 06:05:01 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-34-251.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 06:07:23 -!- Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:09:58 -!- bobbysmith0071 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:13:56 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 06:14:37 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 06:15:39 necroforest [~jarred@pool-72-66-100-119.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:16:49 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:17:39 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 06:21:38 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 06:26:26 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:32:48 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-108-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 06:33:35 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:34:12 good morning 06:34:14 j4K0b [~j4k0bk@93.160.119.14] has joined #lisp 06:34:30 hello mvilleneuve 06:36:54 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has left #lisp 06:39:20 xan_ [~xan@194.224.2.170] has joined #lisp 06:40:28 hi mvilleneuve 06:41:44 ASau` [~user@77.246.231.120] has joined #lisp 06:42:30 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-108-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:43:18 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 06:44:51 -!- nasloc__ [tim@163.16.211.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:45:02 -!- spec`away is now known as mrSpec 06:45:38 deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 06:52:11 -!- pnq [~gaiug@AC8311E9.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.5.2/20090729225027]] 06:52:42 -!- ejs [~eugen@92.49.255.107] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 06:54:00 timchen1` [tim@163.16.211.21] has joined #lisp 06:54:02 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-194-209-38.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:54:45 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:55:41 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 06:56:19 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has joined #lisp 07:05:12 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.29.84] has joined #lisp 07:09:58 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.29.84] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:12:26 -!- mikezor [~mikael@c-e3e970d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:12:37 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:12:50 -!- maden [~maden@dsl-150-106.aei.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:18:16 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:18:25 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 07:19:11 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 07:19:19 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-pufbxcsvakfeiddy] has joined #lisp 07:19:57 mikezor [~mikael@c-e3e970d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 07:20:22 levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 07:23:20 revel0 [~revel0@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 07:27:30 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:30:42 cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has joined #lisp 07:31:17 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-30-161.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:31:57 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:34:17 ejs [~eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 07:35:05 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 07:36:35 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-72-6.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:37:01 -!- Regenaxer [~Baldur@pd9568a7a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: BBL] 07:38:52 -!- ejs [~eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:39:22 ejs [~eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 07:40:12 -!- benny [~benny@i577A836A.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 07:40:42 pjb [~t@81.202.18.80.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 07:43:43 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 07:43:50 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-80-103.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 07:44:07 plage [~user@194.199.1.33] has joined #lisp 07:44:10 Good morning! 07:44:29 hello plage 07:46:10 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-22-10.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 07:46:46 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:47:24 -!- tcr [~tcr@203.82.92.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:48:05 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-80-103.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:54:27 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-72-35.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 07:54:51 -!- xan_ [~xan@194.224.2.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:56:46 tcr [~tcr@29.182.48.60.brk02-home.tm.net.my] has joined #lisp 07:57:39 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:01:24 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.29.84] has joined #lisp 08:04:03 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 08:04:21 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 08:05:46 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:06:26 jan247 [~jan247@tkt34.chikka.com] has joined #lisp 08:06:26 -!- jan247 [~jan247@tkt34.chikka.com] has quit [Changing host] 08:06:26 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 08:08:08 -!- TDT [~user@173-17-83-225.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:08:23 -!- gruseom [~daniel@S01060026f2fdf187.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:08:26 TDT [~user@173-17-83-225.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 08:12:58 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:13:49 Have you seen what rmrfchik says on #scheme? 08:14:05 heh. just read the analytic report about security market in russia. our company took 2nd place with huge grow (1st place has loss 30%). And our product is writen is scheme. / Wow Scheme must have been the reason 08:14:06 08:14:27 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.29.84] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:15:06 hmm, the name rings a bell 08:15:34 benny [~benny@i577A836A.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 08:16:39 i wonder whether CL is at the first place 08:21:20 -!- potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f663603-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:22:54 t3eblinder [~wolfgang@eap111070.extern.uni-tuebingen.de] has joined #lisp 08:26:19 vtl [~user@r9gc231.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 08:29:27 aunwork [~aunwork@mail.ionicsoft.com] has joined #lisp 08:32:20 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 08:32:31 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:33:08 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 08:34:11 Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 08:34:31 stassats: probably not, since 1st has a loss of 30%. 08:36:26 billitch1 [~billitch@2a01:e35:8b7c:5ce0:1e4b:d6ff:fe5b:afd3] has joined #lisp 08:36:50 ssmplayer 08:37:42 luis: ping 08:39:24 MacEochaidh [~c101e50f@gateway/web/freenode/x-wnhwjrzodarxwpdz] has joined #lisp 08:39:29 hello! 08:39:37 hello MacEochaidh 08:40:19 -!- Phoodus [foo@174-17-12-60.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:40:38 MacEochaidh: I don't recognize your nick. Are you new here? 08:41:14 #'nsublis takes a :key argument; as far as I can see, it wouldn't quite be kosher for a key function to modify the alist argument, to influence replacement operations, given MAPPING-DESTRUCTIVE-INTERACTION 08:41:34 is this a correct interpretation? 08:41:37 I'm not here often, plage 08:42:19 most of my Lisp is XEmacs Lisp. despite that Common Lisp is by far the better language, XEmacs isn't written in it 08:43:15 fe[nl]ix: pong 08:44:11 MacEochaidh: there's hemlock, or climacs, to contribute to 08:44:28 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440260.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:44:38 MacEochaidh: notice that key functions may be called several times for each element. 08:44:49 This is left to the implementation discretion. 08:45:12 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 08:45:25 luis: I'm thinking of the bitfield support in CFFI 08:45:38 the current defbitfield is a bit weird 08:46:09 -!- billitch1 [~billitch@2a01:e35:8b7c:5ce0:1e4b:d6ff:fe5b:afd3] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:46:23 pjb, so ... modification is kosher? modification is not kosher? 08:46:26 MacEochaidh: note also that an implementation could use this algorithm: walk the tree, collecting all the unique keys, apply the key function once on each of them, map the keys to the new values with the a-list, enact the substitions. 08:46:49 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:47:05 MacEochaidh: I think all that means "not". 08:47:10 MacEochaidh: so your a-list modification, for one given key, would perhaps not have the effect you want. There's no guarantee on the order of the keys, either. 08:47:30 hlavaty [~user@77-22-102-139-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:47:31 MacEochaidh: it means that it is highly implementation dependant. 08:47:42 pjb, mmm, but your qualifications would be fine for my use case 08:48:02 MacEochaidh: when I want to do such a thing, I re-implement the CL function to be sure I use an algorithm compatible with the trick I want to play. 08:48:29 Why do you want to modify a-list? 08:48:38 There's probably a better way. 08:48:52 Regenaxer [~Baldur@pd9568a7a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:48:58 fe[nl]ix, I'm less annoyed by language stupidities than most real CL people, I think, the pain of switching to hemlock or climacs would not be helpful to me 08:49:39 Does climacs work well with ccl? 08:49:40 pjb, I would like to replace a re-implementation of the CL function with a call to the cl.el #'nsublis in some XEmacs code. 08:49:46 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440803.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 08:50:02 pjb: If McClim does, then I am pretty sure Climacs does. 08:50:04 so the implementation compatibility isn't quite the issue it would be for real CL. 08:50:11 pjb: i see no reason it shouldn't 08:50:15 plage: ok. Thanks. I might try it out again. 08:50:25 mcclim works fine on ccl 08:50:36 And there are existing key functions that modify the a-list? 08:51:16 no, pjb 08:52:55 (defun ad-substitute-tree (sUbTrEe-TeSt fUnCtIoN tReE) 08:52:55 "Substitutes qualifying subTREEs with result of FUNCTION(subTREE)." ...) 08:53:22 could be replaced with 08:53:50 ... ah, not quite 08:54:09 because #'nsublis calls the key function on elements rather than subtrees 08:54:12 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:54:15 -!- revel0 [~revel0@212.88.117.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:56:47 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 08:57:18 revel0_ [~revel0@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 08:58:05 but in the actual calls, the fact that it examines the subtrees isn't that important 08:58:20 billitch1 [~billitch@2a01:e35:8b7c:5ce0:1e4b:d6ff:fe5b:afd3] has joined #lisp 08:59:37 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 09:03:36 lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 09:04:27 -!- MacEochaidh [~c101e50f@gateway/web/freenode/x-wnhwjrzodarxwpdz] has quit [] 09:05:27 You can write things like this: (sublis '((a . (* 1 1))) '(+ (* 2 (* 2 3)) (/ 2 3)) :key (let ((first t)) (lambda (x) (print x) (if (and (listp x) (eq '* (first x))) (if first (progn (setf first nil) x) 'a) x) ))) 09:05:40 --> (+ (* 2 (* 1 1)) (/ 2 3)) 09:06:26 Of course, in emacs lisp without closures you must be more careful. 09:07:56 Notice that once a substitution occurs on a node, it doesn't explore the subtree under either that node, or the substituted one. 09:08:50 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.35] has joined #lisp 09:11:25 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:12:08 ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 09:12:58 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.72.16] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:13:03 fe[nl]ix: could be 09:15:33 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0103-86-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 09:15:51 fe[nl]ix pasted "TCP header as CFFI struct" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99450 09:16:02 luis: what do you think of that ? 09:17:49 stis [~stis@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 09:19:23 fisxoj [~fisxoj@pd95c2932.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:20:20 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 09:23:07 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 09:23:47 -!- vng [~user@123.21.174.250] has quit [Quit: See you later...] 09:25:45 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:25:53 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-dllbnhxrayepvgzi] has joined #lisp 09:26:35 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 09:27:32 Joreji [~thomas@86-084.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 09:32:02 -!- easyE [oU9gQUCnIs@panix3.panix.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:32:24 easyE [CFN3q8rEGM@panix3.panix.com] has joined #lisp 09:33:54 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 09:34:22 -!- ejs [~eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:35:58 Odditus [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 09:36:17 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:36:17 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:36:31 necroforest_ [~jarred@pool-72-66-100-119.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:36:42 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 09:36:47 bobbysmith0071 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 09:36:49 -!- Odditus is now known as Oddity 09:37:06 fe[nl]ix: There are already TCP/IP implementations in Lisp, eg.: http://fresh.homeunix.net/~luke/misc/repo/slitch/src/tcpip.lisp 09:38:02 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:38:47 pjb: not what I need 09:38:48 -!- billitch1 [~billitch@2a01:e35:8b7c:5ce0:1e4b:d6ff:fe5b:afd3] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:38:49 fallen` [~986a6314@gateway/web/freenode/x-oimvrwdhneimqoaq] has joined #lisp 09:39:11 ok. 09:39:14 -!- necroforest [~jarred@pool-72-66-100-119.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:41:01 ejs [~eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 09:42:07 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:46:24 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:47:45 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@pd95c2932.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:47:48 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 09:48:05 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-30-161.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Now with extra fish!] 09:49:05 zomgbie [~jesus@mk090152248120.a1.net] has joined #lisp 09:49:59 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-225-199-251.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 09:50:00 _ace4016_ [~jmarcelin@adsl-225-199-11.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 09:50:08 Yuuhi [benni@p5483BB3E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:56:34 potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f661acc-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 09:59:07 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:03:22 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:04:10 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has joined #lisp 10:06:32 fe[nl]ix: looks good. the variable-width stuff seems out of scope though. 10:06:35 -!- Joreji [~thomas@86-084.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:07:43 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:07:55 luis: yes, that's for the actual protocol parser 10:09:01 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 10:09:03 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 10:10:11 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 10:11:41 tsuru``` [~user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:11:48 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:12:17 fe[nl]ix: it'd be nice to be able to use that in conjunction with defbitfield 10:13:01 -!- tsuru`` [~user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:13:14 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:13:24 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:13:26 -!- yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:13:26 fe[nl]ix: no hold on, this very different from what defbitfield is supposed to do. Nevermind. 10:13:30 luis: in what sense ? 10:13:40 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:13:52 luis: defbitfield would be better named defmask 10:14:50 defbitfield might not be the best name, but I don't think defmask is better. 10:15:16 yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:15:27 sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:15:36 sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has joined #lisp 10:15:36 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-25-9-142.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:17:25 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@mk090152248120.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:17:51 zomgbie [~jesus@mk090152248120.a1.net] has joined #lisp 10:18:17 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-25-18-240.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 10:18:24 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:19:13 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 10:20:27 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:24:09 luis: defbitset ? 10:25:43 freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 10:29:21 fe[nl]ix: while you're hacking defcstruct, better support aggregate types would be neat. :array in particular. 10:29:28 Joreji [~thomas@86-084.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 10:29:36 luis: inline arrays ? 10:29:40 right 10:29:50 sure 10:29:53 not sure if :bitfield could be such a type as well 10:30:00 I'll need those too 10:30:25 the ethernet headers contains two arrays - the src and dst MAC addresses 10:30:41 let me know if you need help, though I can't hack CFFI until later in the day 10:31:15 ok 10:31:21 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 10:32:40 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:32:55 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 10:34:04 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:39:39 -!- segv [~mb@p4FC1BE84.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:40:20 alama [~user@a95-95-141-74.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 10:43:45 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 10:46:13 segv [~mb@p4FC1B028.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:47:03 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:54:05 cschreiner [~licoresse@cm-84.209.103.64.getinternet.no] has joined #lisp 10:54:48 luis: any comments on the syntax ? (off :uint8 4) vs (off :uint8 :size 4), etc... 10:56:44 Harag [~Harag@41.56.30.128] has joined #lisp 10:57:03 the former seems nicer 10:57:13 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-108-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 10:57:34 ok 10:59:31 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@mk090152248120.a1.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:59:59 -!- vtl [~user@r9gc231.net.upc.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:03:03 fe[nl]ix: I'm not sure grouping them in a :bitfield is right 11:03:12 it certainly doesn't match C's syntax 11:03:32 not sure if there are any semantic issues in there as well 11:03:56 yes I know, it's better than C syntax :) 11:05:10 maybe, but it might be misleading 11:05:18 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 11:05:22 Guthur [~michael@host86-136-53-67.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:05:44 is struct foo { int a:1; int b:1; } packed the same way as struct foo {int a:1; short b:1;} ? 11:06:57 vtl [~user@r9gc231.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 11:07:08 it's implementation-dependent 11:07:14 basically I can do whatever I want 11:07:51 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:08:25 GCC is even incompatible with itself - its previous versions - so I'm not even interested in doing what GCC does 11:09:07 well, by default we should follow the platform's ABI, no? 11:16:01 does it go through the groveller? 11:16:23 luis: I'd pack it the same way. the int vs. short matters only when extracting the bitvalue from the struct and assigning it 11:16:39 if not it'll always lose, it's just a question of how... :) 11:16:41 attila_lendvai: no, because you can't take the address of a bitfield member 11:17:50 seriously, how bitfields are layed out is not specified at all. it's a bit like trying to cope with c++ virtual functions: you'll need to introduce an ABI abstraction, no? 11:18:11 luis: http://www.x86-64.org/documentation/abi.pdf doesn't mention bitfields at all 11:18:13 stis_i8 [~chatzilla@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 11:18:14 although these are uninformed guesses from me 11:19:07 luis: as far as I can see I can do *really* whatever I want as long as it's consistent and useful 11:20:45 fe[nl]ix: is there any reason why iolib:defsyscall doesn't parse names like cffi does? i.e. generating a lisp symbol from a string 11:21:29 -!- stis_i8 [~chatzilla@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:21:31 stis_i8_ [~chatzilla@1-1-1-39a.veo.vs.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 11:21:33 -!- stis_i8_ is now known as stis_i8 11:21:46 -!- alama [~user@a95-95-141-74.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:21:57 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:22:14 stassats: it's a known bug 11:22:17 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:24:12 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:25:10 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 11:27:09 stassats: actually, it's not 11:29:08 it's not known or not a bug? 11:30:05 it's intentional 11:30:25 and what's the reason? 11:30:58 -!- Joreji [~thomas@86-084.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:31:55 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:32:02 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 11:36:17 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:37:18 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 11:37:32 stassats: http://gitorious.org/iolib/iolib/blobs/master/src/syscalls/ffi-functions-unix.lisp#line23 11:38:03 Joreji [~thomas@94-135.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:38:24 stassats: defsyscall can receive as C name a list of strings, and the first to be found by dlsym 11:39:19 well, it shouldn't stop it from being able to deal with a single string 11:40:58 there would be a possible confusion between (lisp-name "c-name) and ("c-name1" "c-name2") 11:41:08 right now I'm not interested in writing that code 11:41:37 i mean just "c-name" 11:41:43 without parenthesis 11:41:44 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:42:48 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 11:43:44 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 11:44:56 stassats: the whole thing would need to be rewritten and I don't have time now. patches accepted 11:45:19 i see, thanks 11:49:02 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 11:50:08 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:51:07 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:52:14 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 11:53:15 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:54:05 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 11:54:44 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 11:55:07 abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 11:55:24 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 11:56:02 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 11:58:40 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:01:07 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:01:46 p_l: so, about static clos... 12:02:17 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 12:02:51 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:02:59 p_l: you were talking about optimizations, can you say the most significant one? 12:03:49 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 12:04:54 pmd: it finalizes all inheritance graphs during image dumping, and changes the dispatch mechanism 12:05:10 blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 12:05:30 so all the code is simply loaded from image, you don't need compiler etc. to reconstruct bits of it at runtime 12:06:03 the changes in dispatch mechanism speed it up because after making it static, you don't need to worry about possible modifications 12:09:14 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:09:16 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 12:09:18 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 12:09:35 btw, is sxhash considered a good enough way to generate hashes of objects in runtime? clhs tended to warn against using it, but I find more and more reasons why I should use it... :D 12:09:55 what kind of objects? 12:10:17 in portable code, I probably wouldn't trust it on anything except strings 12:10:43 iPac [~bubble@p54AA6BD1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:11:28 jsnell: usually lists, one of my use cases included lists with type-of results in it 12:13:46 fair enough, so shallowly nested lists of mostly symbols with a few literal numbers. that's probably as good a use case for sxhash you're going to get 12:14:36 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 12:15:13 -!- Regenaxer [~Baldur@pd9568a7a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 12:15:34 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 12:15:38 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 12:15:46 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:16:49 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 12:18:16 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:19:10 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:19:55 Athas` [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 12:20:12 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 12:21:26 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:24:17 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-55-138.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:26:07 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-67-173.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 12:26:12 Athas`` [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 12:26:42 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 12:28:13 -!- Athas` [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:29:14 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:29:57 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 12:30:05 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 12:33:58 Athas``` [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 12:34:58 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:35:22 davertron [~Dave@vt-sb-1.logicsupply.com] has joined #lisp 12:35:28 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-dllbnhxrayepvgzi] has left #lisp 12:35:29 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 12:35:40 -!- Athas`` [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:36:49 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:38:02 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:41:10 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:42:54 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:43:41 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:44:14 Athas```` [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 12:46:03 -!- Athas``` [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:49:43 p_l: then the most noticeable gain is is loading time. well, that's also true for loading a lisp image where all necessary classes and methods have been defined and compiled 12:49:54 -!- Athas```` [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:50:01 hugod_ [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279634288.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 12:50:02 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440803.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:50:02 -!- hugod_ is now known as hugod 12:50:32 pmd: you can also have less levels of indirection 12:50:55 pjb` [~t@60.Red-80-34-44.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:51:00 stassats: fixed 12:51:24 Regenaxer [~Baldur@pd9568a7a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:51:25 pmd: it is theoretically possible to either directly call a method or even inline it with such a system 12:51:49 fe[nl]ix: great! and i already wanted to write a patch 12:53:29 and now my code is slightly shorter 12:54:10 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-168-128-117.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:54:13 stassats: what code ? 12:54:27 interface to inotify 12:54:34 is it public ? 12:54:59 yes, http://github.com/stassats/inotify 12:56:53 stassats: the first line of grovel.lisp is missing a #. 12:57:14 p_l: but as a trade-off, that generates a bunch of code, making the image (much) larger 12:57:15 -!- koning_robot [~aap@88.159.110.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:57:19 koning_robot [~aap@88.159.110.31] has joined #lisp 12:57:21 -!- benny [~benny@i577A836A.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 12:57:32 stassats: otherwise, when #-linux, the groveler will complain that "ERROR" is not a known directive 12:57:41 p_l: wait... scratch that 12:57:45 oh, thanks 12:57:59 rrice [~rrice@76.211.6.129] has joined #lisp 12:58:27 p_l: ok, reiterate that. you may then have to create some dispatching code everywhere where you cannot prove that a single method will run 12:58:51 stassats: and iolib.syscalls has a nickname: isys 12:59:15 pmd: yes, but if you're dropping runtime redefinition, you probably don't need compiler as well, do you? 12:59:27 and said code would have to be regenerated at load time anyway 12:59:40 p_l: that is, in every call that cannot be proven to map to a single method, that itself is not affected by subclass arounds/befores/afters 13:00:12 p_l: you're assuming that a non-static lisp image would do this kind of optimization. i'm not 13:00:29 fe[nl]ix: noted 13:00:32 pmd: the methods have to exist anyway 13:00:39 benny [~benny@i577A836A.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 13:01:08 pmd: the difference is that in static clos, they are generated completely during compile time, not finalized during load-time or runtime 13:02:25 p_l: yes, but if i understand, you're telling me that an optimization would be to expand calls to methods in the static clos compilation finalization; i'm assuming that this expansion is never done in a non-static clos 13:03:10 p_l: because that would be (potentially) extremely slow. imagine the scenario of loading patches 13:03:29 pmd: the thing is, the static clos is for cases where you are *not* modifying it later 13:03:52 p_l: yes, and that is indeed a very interesting case 13:04:29 so instead of calling/inlining a dispatch code just to call the correct lambda(s), you just call the method's code directly, or with minimal dispatch that doesn't involve all of CLOS machinery 13:04:41 p_l: for instance, scheme itself in R6RS seems to me to fall in that category (static executable/library compilation) 13:05:25 -!- carrl [~carl@61-64-164-206-adsl-tai.STATIC.so-net.net.tw] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:06:20 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 13:06:22 carrl [~carl@61-64-164-206-adsl-tai.STATIC.so-net.net.tw] has joined #lisp 13:06:26 p_l: have you got a number (%) of performance gain of using static clos? 13:06:34 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:07:03 pmd: unfortunately not - I need to get an implementation first :) 13:07:59 also, sealing ordinary functions will also reduce function call overhead 13:10:06 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:12:04 Doesn't sbcl include sealing for clos methods? 13:13:50 no 13:15:15 Oh, so the fork happened after Gerd added sealing? 13:15:26 Er, before 13:15:58 quite a while before! And I remember being not-quite-convinced about the way Gerd did it 13:16:09 We shared a lot of work while Gerd was modernising PCL, but not that bit 13:16:50 I remember you working together, but I didn't keep track of what was common. 13:17:22 Lisp 13:18:14 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:18:14 -!- ecraven [~nex@octonex.swe.uni-linz.ac.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:19:20 -!- fallen` [~986a6314@gateway/web/freenode/x-oimvrwdhneimqoaq] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:19:46 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-22-10.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:21:39 ecraven [~nex@octonex.swe.uni-linz.ac.at] has joined #lisp 13:22:54 stassats: no, much more than that 13:23:16 (I recently had a conversation with someone who didn't know to what extent the working relationships between cmucl hackers and sbcl hackers was amicable) 13:24:24 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 13:25:05 -!- gospch [~gospch@unaffiliated/gospch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:26:11 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 13:27:22 minion: PCL? 13:27:23 PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 13:27:34 portable common loops 13:27:45 thanks 13:28:07 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181217253.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 13:28:40 hah, pcl gets mentioned here about every second day :) 13:28:59 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0103-86-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:30:51 m4thrick_ [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 13:30:54 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:33:08 m7w [~52d1dfcb@gateway/web/freenode/x-dwsvnwxxxslwkxll] has joined #lisp 13:33:14 -!- m4thrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:34:29 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:35:45 well, it's #lisp's RWH 13:35:56 yep 13:36:52 billitch1 [~billitch@2a01:e35:8b7c:5ce0:e2cb:4eff:fea3:82c4] has joined #lisp 13:40:13 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:40:34 -!- tsuru``` is now known as tsuru 13:41:05 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 13:41:06 -!- redline6561 [~redline@adsl-190-191-78.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:41:22 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.96.216] has joined #lisp 13:41:40 Krystof: Why would it not be? 13:43:11 Aperculum: now we need "Applied Common Lisp" :) 13:44:06 *Xach* wonders about Funcalled Common Lisp 13:44:08 taking away mindshare; implicit disparagement of development aims / directions; explicit competition... 13:46:17 yasuto [~yasuto@pon099-070.kcn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:47:14 p_l annotated #99413 "edited ToC for "Applied Common Lisp" ? What should be removed?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99413#1 13:47:32 muddyferret [~muddyferr@80.27.102.214] has joined #lisp 13:47:33 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:48:00 -!- muddyferret [~muddyferr@80.27.102.214] has left #lisp 13:49:10 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.96.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:50:06 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0103-86-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 13:50:15 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-tnngztxdadqkvcgs] has joined #lisp 13:50:52 -!- m7w [~52d1dfcb@gateway/web/freenode/x-dwsvnwxxxslwkxll] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:51:59 That would be a monster tome if it was to do each of those justice 13:52:50 we better get started then 13:53:10 Guthur: that's why I asked what to remove. I believe we don't need 4 different test suites 13:55:02 *Guthur* Feels like playing a dungeon crawler game after using 'monster tome' 13:55:17 -!- j4K0b [~j4k0bk@93.160.119.14] has quit [] 13:55:28 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 13:55:46 -!- ejs [~eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:55:59 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-18-196.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:56:06 felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has joined #lisp 14:00:45 ejs [~eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 14:06:04 -!- billitch1 [~billitch@2a01:e35:8b7c:5ce0:e2cb:4eff:fea3:82c4] has left #lisp 14:09:10 schoppenhauer [~senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 14:09:15 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:10:15 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@adsl-75-36-213-242.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:10:40 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:13:27 hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-112-60.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 14:14:32 -!- t3eblinder [~wolfgang@eap111070.extern.uni-tuebingen.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:15:58 gospch [~gospch@unaffiliated/gospch] has joined #lisp 14:16:51 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-108-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:17:14 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:17:51 -!- gospch [~gospch@unaffiliated/gospch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:18:06 gospch [~gospch@unaffiliated/gospch] has joined #lisp 14:21:08 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 14:22:06 -!- plage [~user@194.199.1.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:22:13 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 14:22:30 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-tnngztxdadqkvcgs] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:22:33 -!- ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:22:41 HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:23:06 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:23:06 -!- m4thrick_ [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:23:06 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 14:23:39 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-112-60.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:24:09 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 14:24:16 m4thrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 14:30:48 smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:33:01 -!- schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:33:57 -!- gospch [~gospch@unaffiliated/gospch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:33:59 Athas` [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 14:35:13 slyrus_ [~slyrus@adsl-75-36-213-242.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:35:21 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 14:35:38 -!- Athas` [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:35:43 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:37:26 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:37:28 nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-163-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 14:38:15 G'morning all. 14:40:09 gospch [~gospch@unaffiliated/gospch] has joined #lisp 14:40:39 redline6561 [~redline@gate-20.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 14:40:41 nyef: do I need to do anything more to switch stack on x86 other than change esp/rsp to beginning of stack area? 14:40:51 -!- Dodek [dodek@jest.pro] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:41:15 schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 14:41:17 p_l: Usually, no. On Win32, yes. 14:41:23 -!- tcr [~tcr@29.182.48.60.brk02-home.tm.net.my] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:41:27 hi nyef 14:41:47 (Win32 has a particular required layout for stacks, and a handful of pointers to various aspects of stack space.) 14:42:08 -!- yasuto [~yasuto@pon099-070.kcn.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:42:09 nyef: but it's just setting pointers? 14:42:22 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-pufbxcsvakfeiddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:42:25 Apart from on Win32, yes. 14:42:36 I imagine the win32 part requires setting some information blocks pointed to by GS/FS? 14:42:43 Yeah. 14:42:55 And setting the address space/VM allocation up properly. 14:43:11 well, the address space allocation would be done previously in proper way :) 14:43:13 gonzojive [~red@128.12.248.192] has joined #lisp 14:46:18 kqr [kqr@xkqr.org] has joined #lisp 14:47:29 sykopomp|jeejah [~sykopomp@border.pozitronic.com] has joined #lisp 14:47:29 -!- sykopomp|jeejah [~sykopomp@border.pozitronic.com] has quit [Changing host] 14:47:29 sykopomp|jeejah [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 14:47:38 hey. i want to print out a non-printable ascii character. i tried with "~C" as a control string to format, but it complains about my argument not being a character. (ascii-value < 32) 14:47:40 -!- gonzojive [~red@128.12.248.192] has quit [Client Quit] 14:47:42 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 14:47:44 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has quit [Quit: -arividerchi] 14:48:09 is there a way to print non-printables using format, or do i have to take other actions. in that case, which? 14:48:10 kqr: what kind of object is the argument? 14:48:29 Xach: ah, an integer 14:48:35 clhs code-char 14:48:36 btw, was there a generic function called to print a class? 14:48:43 Xach: good point. can i somehow make it a char? ah, thanks 14:48:49 kqr: you can produce a character from an integer with code-char, and in practice the results are consistent. 14:48:55 ... No specbot again? 14:48:57 *nyef* sighs. 14:49:01 http://l1sp.org/cl/code-char 14:49:08 yeah, i googled 14:49:14 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:49:16 *Xach* is playing specbot 14:50:30 specbot [~specbot@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 14:50:41 clhs code-char 14:50:41 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_code_c.htm 14:50:45 Right, that's working. 14:50:49 minion: You here? 14:50:49 what's up? 14:50:51 p_l: did i miss some context? you mean besides print-object? 14:51:07 minion: Just checking to see if I needed to reconnect you as well. 14:51:07 and if not? 14:51:17 Xach: yeah, just found print-object - my previous attempt at googling it was a failure 14:51:29 Ugh. That bot needs more of a brain. 14:51:47 *Xach* writes 75 print-object methods per day 14:51:57 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 14:52:12 Xach: creative printing ? 14:54:59 chain printing? 14:55:41 Xach: define-printer macro time? 14:55:49 -!- aw|rerun is now known as aw 14:55:51 each print-object calls the next print-object 14:56:34 -!- Regenaxer [~Baldur@pd9568a7a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 14:57:07 Shaftoe [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096727564.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:57:12 *arbscht* guesses Xach bills by the print-object 14:57:22 hi all. 14:57:34 I'm looking to do some URL-rewriting using hunchentoot. 14:57:47 I have a few options. but wanted to ask if anyone else had experience doing this already 14:58:40 Shaftoe: hard to go wrong with http://weitz.de/url-rewrite 14:58:56 yeah. I'm using url-rewrite, but my options are as follows 14:59:08 1) I just use my own call to url-rewrite and am done with it 14:59:29 2) I install a hook of some sort so that if hunchentoot also does a url-rewrite (for session variables), there's only one pass (And not two) 14:59:55 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:00:20 1) is less efficient. 2) is hairy because I have to modify hunchentoot 15:01:10 commenti? 15:02:01 How important is efficiency at this level? 15:02:09 -!- vtl [~user@r9gc231.net.upc.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:02:12 xb 15:02:19 (Have you profiled yet? Is it even "too slow" by any measure yet?) 15:02:25 vtl [~user@r9gc231.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 15:02:43 it's not too slow, no. I haven't profiled, but wall clock time is perfectly acceptable. 15:03:46 If it's not too slow, don't worry about the inefficiency. 15:04:01 alright. 15:05:31 but where is fun in that? 15:05:47 as a academic thought though, how does one go about making changes like this? 15:05:57 can it actually be done *without* modifying hunchentoot? 15:06:05 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 15:06:11 nyef: do you take feature requests ? 15:06:21 See if there's a generic function anywhere that you can put an :around method on? 15:06:30 fe[nl]ix: Sometimes. What do you have in mind? 15:06:55 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:06:55 -!- kqr [kqr@xkqr.org] has left #lisp 15:07:00 nyef: a byte-swapping contrib. bswapl, bswapq, those things 15:07:16 -!- bobbysmith0071 is now known as bobbysmith007 15:07:17 unfortunately, it's not. 15:07:19 *stassats* has one 15:07:19 it's a defun. 15:08:33 boo. defuns all the way down. 15:08:56 http://github.com/stassats/swap-bytes 15:09:48 :-O 15:09:50 cool 15:10:02 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.1] 15:10:39 Dodek [dodek@jest.pro] has joined #lisp 15:10:53 ask and ye shall receive 15:11:00 and i never get to use it myself 15:11:13 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 15:11:29 how do you think I feel? You never get to use your contrib; I never get to use sbcl at all 15:11:34 except once a month, to build the next release 15:11:53 -!- blandest [~user@85.204.33.242] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:12:11 -!- ejs [~eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:12:24 -!- ASau` [~user@77.246.231.120] has quit [Quit: off] 15:13:09 stassats: cool, I think I'll want to use your rtorrent interface 15:13:15 -!- Joreji [~thomas@94-135.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:15:10 it isn't much of an interface, though 15:15:44 but i got to advertise three of my little projects today 15:16:24 -!- zmyrgel [~zmyrgel@hoasnet-fe22dd00-59.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:17:44 ejs [~eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 15:17:44 -!- aunwork [~aunwork@mail.ionicsoft.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:20:50 -!- aw [~aw@p5DDA8F87.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:21:32 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:22:07 stassats: could you add a byte-swap-16 while you're at it ? 15:23:00 *nyef* mostly doesn't bother with byte swapping, preferring to pull integers up from octets in the correct byte order in the first place. 15:23:09 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:23:23 i'll try, XCHG should do 15:23:45 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 15:23:47 I acknowledge that this isn't precisely the fastest way, but it works well enough for me. 15:23:56 kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-72-228-72-196.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:24:36 cp2 [~will@89.46.33.240] has joined #lisp 15:24:58 would be more interesting to swap bytes package in a 32 or 64-bit integer, or even swapping the whole array using SIMD 15:25:45 nyef: I have a 32bit big-endian bitfield and have to extract a bitvalue that spans adjacent octets 15:26:02 the easiest thing seems to use byteswap + ldb 15:26:15 fe[nl]ix: And I'd read that bitfield as big-endian in the first place and then ldb. 15:26:18 are you on x86? 15:26:38 isn't there a native opcode in asm to do just that (convert 32bit from big to little endian)? 15:26:46 nyef: read as big-endian ? 15:26:49 Shaftoe: bswap 15:27:25 stassats: ok. I didn't notice that's what he was referring to earlier. 15:27:27 Okay, I read up from memory as octets, then assemble them in the appropriate order for the endianness of the value. 15:28:13 No fussing about with the CPU endianness, no fancy swapping of octets within a register, etc. 15:28:53 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 15:33:36 -!- vtl [~user@r9gc231.net.upc.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:34:27 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-44-82-249-214-213.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:57 stassats: also, I guess I was indicating that requesting the ability to byte swap individual octets of a 32bit integer might not be necessary since a single opcode does that altogether. I guess byte swapping can mean the XCHG family of ops, or it could mean endianness ops. 15:35:01 -!- schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:35:20 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:35:22 15:35:25 -!- sykopomp|jeejah [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:35:27 =) 15:35:31 sykopomp|jeejah [~sykopomp@border.pozitronic.com] has joined #lisp 15:35:31 -!- sykopomp|jeejah [~sykopomp@border.pozitronic.com] has quit [Changing host] 15:35:31 sykopomp|jeejah [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 15:35:46 -!- NNshag [user@lns-bzn-53-82-65-45-196.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:35:47 (also, s/altogether/all together/) 15:36:03 but you need to somehow access it from lisp 15:36:45 schmx [~marcus@c83-254-196-101.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 15:36:45 -!- schmx [~marcus@c83-254-196-101.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Changing host] 15:36:45 schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 15:37:19 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:37:36 I guess. You could simply bit mask it and use the full int value, no? 15:37:50 pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.194.13] has joined #lisp 15:37:56 switch endianness -> bit mask -> consider as atomic value 15:38:17 Regenaxer [~Baldur@pd9568a7a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:38:43 well, i mean access to the instruction, bswap 15:38:51 yes indeed. 15:39:32 like I said, I didn't realize in the beginning he was refering to the opcode and not just abbreviating. 15:39:39 like I said, I've ended my pedantry. 15:39:43 =) 15:40:41 I guess I didn't understand why one would want a 16 bit bswap when one already has a 32 bit one. 15:41:09 slash_ [~Unknown@whgeh00014.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 15:43:03 -!- segv [~mb@p4FC1B028.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: segv] 15:43:50 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:45:06 sykopomp|jeejah` [~sykopomp@border.pozitronic.com] has joined #lisp 15:45:06 -!- sykopomp|jeejah [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:45:06 -!- sykopomp|jeejah` [~sykopomp@border.pozitronic.com] has quit [Changing host] 15:45:06 sykopomp|jeejah` [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 15:45:52 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 15:46:02 segv [~mb@p4FC1B028.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:47:33 Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 15:50:34 -!- schoppenhauer [~senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:51:15 -!- redline6561 [~redline@gate-20.spsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:53:02 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 15:56:09 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit:     (xchat 2.4.5  )] 15:56:48 tmh [~user@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 15:58:09 Greetings lispers. 15:59:18 -!- gospch [~gospch@unaffiliated/gospch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:59:29 -!- myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:00:15 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:02:32 t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B2000D7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:03:46 -!- pjb` [~t@60.Red-80-34-44.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:04:13 -!- Regenaxer [~Baldur@pd9568a7a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: BBL] 16:05:34 Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 16:06:53 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 16:07:14 -!- CrEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:07:36 hi tmh 16:07:50 Hey LiamH, how's it going? 16:08:24 tmh: good, semester almost finished, can get back to some lisp hacking 16:09:07 *LiamH* will be turning in the final grades tonight 16:09:35 Nice. I'm swamped with consulting at the moment, so my open source lisp projects are languishing. Luckily, I've worked lisp coding into my consulting. 16:09:45 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:10:19 good; I too use lisp in my job, but that's not the same as hacking. 16:10:33 The other thing I've been doing is slowly relying on my open source libraries for my consulting code so I have more motivation/justification for working on them. 16:11:12 If I can just get some things under control, I can make a final push to clean up some of the open source code and release it. 16:11:19 tmh: Exactly. I need to port my own software to use GSLL and integrate it in better. 16:12:28 -!- ve [~a@smith.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:12:36 ve [~a@smith.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 16:12:46 Joreji [~thomas@94-135.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 16:13:30 CrEddy_ [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 16:14:02 -!- CrEddy_ is now known as CrazyEddy 16:14:02 -!- CrazyEddy is now known as CrEddy 16:14:15 LiamH: Ugh, I'm in the same position. I finally just started taking little productivity hits to excise project specific code and use the external libraries. 16:15:50 tmh: yeah, it's necessary. Unfortunately for me I have a bit of a flag day problem, SBCLs newer than about 1.0.24 don't compile my old (and admittedly crufty) way of doing "grids" so I need to go to grid/GSLL. 16:16:43 This itself involves digging through quite a bit of poorly organized and possibly no longer useful code. 16:17:07 what is the symbol for tab in format 16:17:11 in C is \t 16:17:24 PuffTheMagic: there isn't a string syntax for that. 16:17:30 PuffTheMagic: or format. 16:17:38 hmm 16:17:58 you can write one, though. 16:18:06 LiamH: Nothing like necessity for motivation. There definitely a sense of satisfaction once you have the code cleaned up, though. 16:18:16 -!- abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:18:21 Edi Weitz wrote cl-interpol, and that has a backslash syntax for tab, iirc. 16:18:34 #\Tab 16:18:39 #\Tab 16:18:42 clhs ~t 16:18:42 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_cfa.htm 16:18:52 Is the character symbol 16:18:58 -!- lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:19:19 thanks 16:19:19 Or base-char even 16:19:41 tmh: agreed, that's why I'm looking forward to it, even though it's work. 16:19:42 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0103-86-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:21:03 lonstein [~lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #lisp 16:22:50 -!- sykopomp|jeejah` [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:23:04 sykopomp|jeejah [~sykopomp@border.pozitronic.com] has joined #lisp 16:23:04 -!- sykopomp|jeejah 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error: Connection reset by peer] 17:37:17 LiamH: careful there, ~t doesn't output #\Tab's but spaces :) 17:37:33 oh, i was scrolled a way back... 17:37:53 drewc: oh, true, didn't think of that 17:38:12 xan_ [~xan@194.224.2.170] has joined #lisp 17:38:30 but when I think of "tab" and format, that's what I think of, not the literal tab character (which doesn't seem to me to be much good for anything these days) 17:39:11 LiamH: fair enough yeah, tabulating and #\Tab are different things for sure. 17:43:29 plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-53-51.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 17:44:22 HG` [~HG@xdslau125.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 17:46:04 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 17:52:54 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 17:53:24 Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 17:53:42 for the SLIME hackers out there.. I want to make it so SLIME displays the lambda list info as I type names of Parenscript functions, just as it now works with CL functions/macros. Is there a standard way to make SLIME find my Parenscript function definitions? 17:55:59 define a new method for swank:compute-enriched-decoded-arglist 17:58:26 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:58:28 -!- dysinger [~dysinger@cpe-98-150-133-209.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dysinger] 17:59:10 -!- Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:03:30 -!- HG` [~HG@xdslau125.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:03:42 Guthur [~michael@host81-131-243-36.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:04:19 -!- cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:12:53 billitch1 [~billitch@rob92-1-82-67-155-88.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:13:07 obadiah [~obadiah@gnu-india/admin/VivekVC] has joined #lisp 18:13:33 j0be [~chatzilla@5ED31CAF.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 18:13:34 in case, do you prefer using `t' or `otherwise' for the default clause? 18:14:02 yes. 18:14:08 me too 18:14:34 yes what? 18:14:38 i prefer T 18:14:39 exactly 18:14:44 slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 18:15:21 -!- obadiah [~obadiah@gnu-india/admin/VivekVC] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:17:31 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 18:17:58 astalla [~astalla@93-36-224-99.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 18:18:32 does anyone know why case accepts the symbol `otherwise'? looking at how cond is normally used, i agree with `t' over `otherwise' too, so, why is it even there? 18:20:06 history 18:20:33 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 18:20:52 CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 18:21:33 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 18:21:36 like, it was in this 20-to-200-year-old lisp-machine-dialect and thus it seems ok (like loop)? 18:22:20 don't you dare say anything about LOOP! 18:22:40 cisticola [~daddy@202.134.251.153] has joined #lisp 18:22:44 ("Say things about ITERATE instead"?) 18:23:13 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 18:23:52 Regenaxer [~Baldur@pd9568a7a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:24:05 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 18:24:27 -!- HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:24:52 lol! syntatically, i prefer iterate, and it has some nice features over loop 18:25:05 loop... well, it's better than nothing, but... :\ 18:25:17 daniel___ [~daniel@p5082EA03.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:25:26 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:25:41 i bet you don't like FORMAT syntax either 18:26:26 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082F685.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:26:33 stassats: how about a means of overriding M-. to include parenscript definitions? 18:26:34 well, i do :) 18:27:19 my thought of loop vs iterate is: i already disliked loop before i met iterate 18:27:49 my though of format vs (something yet to splash on my face): i don't dislike format, but if something better appears, cool! 18:28:25 does an iteration construct really need to include a code walker? all this for a 'lispy' syntax? ewww. 18:28:25 however, i dislike some of the formatter's nuances 18:28:29 out: http://cs-www.cs.yale.edu/homes/dvm/format-stinks.html 18:29:06 like, padding with zeros means putting "'0"... ? why the quote? i never really got that 18:30:53 stassats: hmm! nice! 18:30:57 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 18:32:57 stassats: OUT are variants are an interesting idea, but eventually they end up looking less like lisp than a with-output-to-* form, but with the same about of code :) 18:33:03 and variants* 18:33:11 amount* 18:33:16 *drewc* searches coffee 18:34:31 FORMAT has some eccentricities, but I think there needs to be both a procedural string builder (like with-output-to-*) and a templated string builder. FORMAT is fine for templated strings. 18:35:01 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:36:40 OUT is a compromise that, I think, inherits the disadvantages of both with none of the advantages 18:36:45 -!- yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:37:11 -!- CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:37:13 dlowe: that's my feeling exactly. 18:37:16 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:37:33 drewc: being able to use things like collect inside random lisp code is pretty nice. 18:38:02 drewc: not sure if that feature in particular strictly requires a code walker 18:38:17 luis: i use FLET for that :) 18:38:33 (flet ((collect (item) (push item place))) ....) :) 18:38:53 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-25-18-240.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 18:39:17 yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:18 i'm comfortable with push+nreverse, not so much with code walkers. 18:39:18 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 18:39:32 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:39:38 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:39:48 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 18:39:54 (this is after using a code walker in my daily work for some 4-5 years... i used to think they were great!) 18:40:13 One of the interesting bits in Let Over Lambda was the idea that code walking can be done succinctly with macrolet 18:40:44 *p_l* would prefer a good transformation system instead of code walkers 18:41:08 slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 18:41:12 but that I can hack into SBCL :P 18:41:18 dlowe: only in certain cases, and only if you don't mind augmenting the lexical environment with your macrolets 18:42:03 that is to say, there are times when you don't want the forms you are walking to even exist in the compiler 18:42:11 's enviroment while you are walking them 18:42:28 ah, well. that's a bit harder 18:42:58 *drewc* doesn't even want to start talking about code walkers... sorry i brought it up... pain.. THE PAIN 18:43:42 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:44:04 drewc: meh, that FLET doesn't quite capture what LOOP-style collect can do. 18:44:39 basically, you only get one code walker at a time... do you really want to waste it on your iteration construct? 18:44:53 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:45:04 i mean, if you really want to do it right, SERIES exists and has a perfectly good code walker of its own :P 18:45:14 *nyef* would rather spend that code walker on the -compiler-. 18:45:33 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:45:36 *dlowe* would love an sbcl compiler-integrated version of SERIES 18:45:54 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:46:24 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:46:32 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:46:47 luis: true enough, but for cases where LOOP is not enough, a simple FLET or two is usually enough to stop me reaching for LOOP alternative. 18:47:02 drewc: do you know whether iterate strictly requires a code walker? 18:47:39 *nyef* suspects that even CLOS doesn't require a code walker, even though PCL uses one. 18:47:52 iterate as it exists? pretty sure it does. Must it? probably not. 18:48:04 myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 18:49:17 nyef: clos certainly doesn't, PCL is full of some not quite thought out performance hacks, and the MOP inherits some of them.... 18:49:33 Mmm. 18:49:41 PCL scares me. 18:50:14 of lot of these issues go away if you're not trying to bolt a MOP on a CLtL1 18:50:40 well, PCL was *portable* CLOS, that was supposed to run on variety of implementations, right? 18:51:09 *drewc* 's toy CL implementation bootstraps a minimal CLOS first, then builds everything on that. 18:51:18 -!- varjag is now known as varjagg 18:51:44 actually, it was portable LOOPS ;) 18:52:30 drewc: I know :) 18:52:45 my first lisp book actually called it by that name :P 18:54:15 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:54:37 -!- Regenaxer [~Baldur@pd9568a7a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #lisp 18:55:12 but yeah, was supposed to be 'portable' (as in "can be ported", not "runs everywhere"), so includes half of a friggin compiler 18:56:03 Soulman1 [~knute@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 18:56:22 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 18:56:55 drewc: funnily enough, one of the els talks was tangentially about the non-composability and non-generality of code walkers 18:57:34 Krystof: i wish i could have been there... was it recorded and/or published? 18:58:10 and what was it actually about? :) 19:01:30 Has -anyone- blogged about their ELS experiences yet? 19:02:08 nyef: only not-that-luis 19:02:13 Ah. 19:02:15 I feel sad 19:02:28 but also exhausted and overworked and ill, which is why I haven't blogged mine 19:02:29 not that luis? 19:02:36 also mine will mostly say VOLCANOES BLOODY VOLCANOES 19:02:46 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 19:03:02 trebor_d` [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 19:03:28 Mmm... Rather tricky to have notice of volcanic ash closing all european air travel sufficiently in advance to schedule around it... 19:04:13 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:04:19 there were moments when Antonio and I (virtually) looked at each other and said "cursed, we're cursed" 19:05:07 Is there some set end-point for your current overworkedness? 19:05:11 ha 19:05:12 no 19:05:21 Ouch. 19:05:37 well, it gets differently terrible around end of June or possible end of August, when for better or worse I am rid of the project of DOOM 19:05:50 "differently terrible"? 19:06:16 the project finishes, but then so does the portion of my time that's bought out from other duties by the project 19:06:30 Ah. 19:06:31 so instead of working on the project of DOOM I get extra teaching, extra admin, extra everything else 19:06:48 incidentally, in case anyone says "DOOM was fun": not that DOOM. 19:07:19 some day I will be in control of my own destiny 19:07:22 that day is not yet now 19:08:13 actually I have a feeling that it will be better after the end of this project, for two reasons: I won't have to work on it any more (hooray! :-) and doing effectively 2 half-time jobs is mindbending 19:09:16 maden [~maden@dsl-157-29.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 19:09:39 Well, good luck? 19:09:42 thanks :-) 19:09:53 I can't complain too much; I have a relatively secure well-paid interesting job 19:10:26 Fair enough. 19:10:27 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-168-152-229.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 19:13:46 what job is that? 19:14:01 If memory serves, "Professor". 19:14:51 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 19:16:04 well, we don't give out Professorships to just anyone in the UK; but yes, I'm the equivalent of a US Associate Professor, I guess. We call it "Lecturer" 19:16:13 -!- Edward__ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-48-210.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:16:17 Ah, fair enough. 19:17:10 -!- slash_ [~Unknown@whgeh00014.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:17:53 heh. In poland it's quite crazy thing - to legally have a title of "Professor", not just used as customary in speech, you need to be officially presented with professorship by office of president (of country) :) 19:18:39 commissioned officers of knowledge 19:18:51 you can't have just anyone profess whatever they like 19:19:06 -!- trebor_d` [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:19:19 like an adjunct professor? 19:20:18 who, me? 19:20:24 aw [~aw@p5DDA8F87.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:20:26 yes 19:20:32 argh. puri is ruining my life. 19:20:40 no. I have the equivalent of tenure, except that we don't quite have tenure in the UK 19:20:45 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:20:46 instead we have labour laws :-) 19:21:24 you might call them Labor laws, or evil socialist innovations, or something 19:21:33 soon to become conservative-libdem laws 19:21:53 that doesn't even make sense 19:22:02 I despair sometimes 19:22:14 I mean, I know that the yellows made the best deal possible given the circumstances... 19:23:11 boyscared: I have a research programme, I am part of departmental decision making -- as I say, closest US equivalent is Associate Professor, except that I'm a bit more junior than that (but still can't be arbitrarily dismissed) 19:24:40 most teaching faculty here in the US are adjuncts these days, it seems 19:33:58 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:39:08 ignas 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as aw 21:45:20 Arelius [~user@208.80.117.82] has joined #lisp 21:45:38 can I define a new top level function within a function 21:45:39 ? 21:45:42 -!- marioxcc [~user@201.132.135.74] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:46:05 Arelius: Yes, but you shouldn't. 21:46:22 I know 21:46:27 marioxcc [~user@201.132.135.74] has joined #lisp 21:46:29 If I really really wanted to, how would I? 21:46:44 Note, this isn't going to be used in any thing resembling production, or even useful code. 21:46:59 You'd use DEFUN, of course. 21:47:06 -!- iPac [~bubble@p54AA44B5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: http://127.0.0.1] 21:47:10 Arelius: Just seeing how perverted things can get? 21:47:36 nyef: But doesn't defun define one in the local scope? 21:47:52 silenius [~silenius@rrcs-64-183-24-50.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:47:59 It shares the same lexical environment, but it's a toplevel definition. 21:49:21 Hm. 21:49:56 That means you can close on named top-level functions, right? 21:50:54 Something doesn't seem right about that thought. 21:51:28 I know. 21:52:06 hmm 21:53:48 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:54:05 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 21:56:04 asarch [~asarch@189.188.156.119] has joined #lisp 21:56:13 -!- aw [~aw@p5DDA8F87.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:56:15 aw|rerun [~aw@p5DDA8F87.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:56:56 -!- aw|rerun is now known as aw 22:00:20 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:01:11 sykopomp|jeejah` [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 22:02:18 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:03:06 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:03:20 -!- sykopomp|jeejah [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:06:18 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:06:33 -!- silenius [~silenius@rrcs-64-183-24-50.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 259 seconds] 22:08:01 -!- pareidolia_ [~michaelk@mak.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:08:29 silenius [~silenius@rrcs-64-183-24-50.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:09:34 derp [~rofl@wikimedia/fail] has joined #lisp 22:10:10 niggers pasted "gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa gnaa g 22:10:57 lisppaste spam? sigh 22:12:44 dvjennings [~yes@cpe-24-27-92-149.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:13:40 -!- Soulman1 [~knute@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 22:13:51 timecop pasted "timecop" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99482 22:13:56 פַ‏אק pasted "פַ‏אקפַ‏אקפַ‏אקפַ‏אקפַ‏אקפַ‏אקפַ‏אקפַ‏אקפַ‏אקפַ‏אקפַ‏אקפַ‏אקפַ‏אקפַ‏אקפַ‏אקפַ‏אקפַ‏אקפַ‏אקפַ‏אקפַ‏אקפַ‏אקפַ‏אקפַ‏אקפַ‏אקפַ‏אקפַ‏אקפַ‏אקפַ‏אקפַ‏אקפַ‏אקפַ‏אקפַ‏אקפַ‏אקפַ‏אקפַ‏אקפַ‏אקפַ‏אקפַ‏אקפַ‏אקפַ‏ 22:14:14 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99484 22:14:19 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99485 22:14:22 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99486 22:14:23 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99487 22:14:24 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99488 22:14:24 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99489 22:14:25 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99490 22:14:26 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99491 22:14:27 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99492 22:14:28 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99493 22:14:28 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99494 22:14:29 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99495 22:14:30 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99496 22:14:31 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99497 22:14:31 Joy. 22:14:31 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99498 22:14:32 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99499 22:14:33 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99500 22:14:33 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99501 22:14:34 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99502 22:14:35 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99503 22:14:36 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99504 22:14:37 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99505 22:14:38 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99506 22:14:38 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99507 22:14:39 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99508 22:14:40 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99509 22:14:40 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99510 22:14:41 <[df]> damn, wish I was as cool as those guys 22:14:41 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99511 22:14:43 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99512 22:14:44 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99513 22:14:45 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99514 22:14:45 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99515 22:14:46 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99516 22:14:47 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99517 22:14:48 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99518 22:14:48 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99519 22:14:49 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99520 22:14:49 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99521 22:14:50 really? 22:14:50 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99522 22:14:51 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99523 22:14:56 Efnet is nothing but script-kiddies, it seems 22:15:02 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99539 22:15:03 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99540 22:15:04 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99541 22:15:11 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 22:15:15 meaby it's CL script 22:15:25 stop the insanity 22:15:57 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99542 22:15:59 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99543 22:15:59 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99544 22:16:01 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99545 22:16:10 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99546 22:16:12 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99547 22:16:12 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99548 22:16:13 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99549 22:16:14 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99550 22:16:15 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99551 22:16:15 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99552 22:16:17 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99553 22:16:18 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99554 22:16:18 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99555 22:16:19 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99556 22:16:20 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99557 22:16:21 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99558 22:16:21 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99559 22:16:22 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99560 22:16:23 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99561 22:16:24 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99562 22:16:24 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99563 22:16:25 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99564 22:16:25 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99565 22:16:26 wow 22:16:26 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99566 22:16:27 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99567 22:16:28 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99568 22:16:29 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99569 22:16:29 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99570 22:16:30 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99571 22:16:31 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99572 22:16:32 lisppaste: quit 22:16:32 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99573 22:16:32 Some will have to kill Lisppaste 22:16:33 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99574 22:16:33 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99575 22:16:35 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99576 22:16:35 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99577 22:16:36 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99578 22:16:37 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99579 22:16:37 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99580 22:16:38 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99581 22:16:53 -!- astalla [~astalla@93-36-224-99.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 22:17:02 shofetim [~user@97-121-228-161.blng.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:17:10 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99597 22:17:12 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99598 22:17:13 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99599 22:17:13 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99600 22:17:14 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99601 22:17:15 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99602 22:17:16 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99603 22:17:17 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99604 22:17:17 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99605 22:17:18 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99606 22:17:19 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99607 22:17:20 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99608 22:17:21 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99609 22:17:21 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99610 22:17:22 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99611 22:17:23 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99612 22:17:24 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99613 22:17:24 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99614 22:17:24 hurr i am script-child 22:17:25 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99615 22:17:26 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99616 22:17:27 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99617 22:17:28 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99618 22:17:28 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99619 22:17:29 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99620 22:17:30 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99621 22:17:31 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99622 22:17:31 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99623 22:17:32 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99624 22:17:33 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99625 22:17:33 jbrown [~jacksonb@adsl-64-175-43-145.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 22:17:34 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99626 22:17:34 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99627 22:17:35 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99628 22:17:36 c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:17:36 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99629 22:17:37 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99630 22:17:38 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99631 22:17:39 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99632 22:17:39 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99633 22:17:40 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99634 22:17:41 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99635 22:17:41 drewc xach 22:17:42 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99636 22:17:42 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99637 22:17:43 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99638 22:17:44 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99639 22:17:45 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99640 22:17:47 -!- t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B2000D7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:17:56 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99655 22:17:57 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99656 22:17:57 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99657 22:17:57 Krystof 22:17:58 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99658 22:17:59 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99659 22:17:59 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99660 22:18:00 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99661 22:18:00 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99662 22:18:01 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99663 22:18:02 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99664 22:18:02 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99665 22:18:03 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99666 22:18:03 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99667 22:18:04 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99668 22:18:04 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99669 22:18:05 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99670 22:18:05 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99671 22:18:06 Zhivago 22:18:06 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99672 22:18:07 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99673 22:18:07 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99674 22:18:18 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99692 22:18:19 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99693 22:18:19 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99694 22:18:20 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99695 22:18:20 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99696 22:18:21 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99697 22:18:21 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99698 22:18:22 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99699 22:18:23 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99700 22:18:23 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99701 22:18:24 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99702 22:18:24 you know, you can just /ignore lisppaste for now 22:18:24 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99703 22:18:25 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99704 22:18:25 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99705 22:18:26 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99706 22:18:26 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99707 22:18:27 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99708 22:18:28 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99709 22:18:28 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99710 22:18:29 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99711 22:18:57 jsnell: way too complex :P 22:19:03 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99729 22:19:03 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99730 22:19:04 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99731 22:19:05 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99732 22:19:05 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99733 22:19:06 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99734 22:19:07 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99735 22:19:07 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99736 22:19:08 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99737 22:19:09 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timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99748 22:19:23 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99749 22:19:23 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Zhivago 22:19:24 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99750 22:19:24 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99751 22:19:25 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99752 22:19:26 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99753 22:19:27 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99754 22:19:27 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99755 22:19:28 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99756 22:19:28 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99757 22:19:29 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99758 22:19:29 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99759 22:19:30 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99760 22:19:30 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99761 22:19:31 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99762 22:19:31 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99763 22:19:32 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99764 22:19:33 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99765 22:19:33 timecop pasted "OWNED BY IRC.EFNET.ORG #LINUXWAREZ" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99766 22:19:33 bikcmp [~bikcmp@unaffiliated/not] has joined #lisp 22:19:33 -!- Zhivago has set mode +q lisppaste!*@* 22:19:47 yeah 22:19:48 Well, that was exciting. 22:20:00 -!- Zhivago has set mode -o Zhivago 22:20:13 i felt all P0wneD and stuff. 22:20:19 *Guthur* struggles to keep his head above the flood 22:20:59 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-108-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 22:21:27 *Odin-* hands Guthur a flotation device. 22:22:32 as long as it wasn't your seat cusion. 22:22:36 Murdox [~uhhh@host86-178-14-1.range86-178.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 22:23:09 -!- varjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:23:36 What like one of those rings you get when you have piles 22:24:21 piles? it sounds like it must be contagious 22:24:28 Oddity: durr :P 22:24:43 Actually it may be spelt different, thats just how it is said 22:25:11 Nope that is how it is spelt 22:25:42 now you have my interest? what is it? 22:25:56 Hemorrhoid is the the technical term 22:25:57 Lycurgus [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:26:04 hehe 22:26:39 wiki has a few graphic pictures 22:26:45 I wont post the link 22:27:47 good! :) 22:28:24 -!- dvjennings [~yes@cpe-24-27-92-149.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:30:06 -!- levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:30:38 -!- shofetim [~user@97-121-228-161.blng.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:30:39 -!- jbrown [~jacksonb@adsl-64-175-43-145.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has left #lisp 22:40:13 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:43:22 ejs [~eugen@94-248-105-200.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 22:44:05 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.156.119] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:44:14 -!- curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:45:22 *Lycurgus* had no idea "piles" were hemorrhoids 22:46:51 Neither did I actually, the wonders of the internet 22:46:57 -!- felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:48:00 molly [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #lisp 22:48:10 slash_ [~Unknown@whgeh00014.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 22:48:25 -!- molly [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has left #lisp 22:48:31 fitzgen [~fitzgen@c-67-201-205-34.reshall.wwu.edu] has joined #lisp 22:48:56 -!- felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has quit [Quit: felipe] 22:49:58 Hello, can someone help me identify a pair of functions real quick? 22:50:16 I know they have to exist in the std lib, I just can't find them (bad google skills I guess) 22:50:49 The first would return true if all items in an sexp are non-nil, 22:51:20 TeMPOraL [~user@188.146.121.64.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has joined #lisp 22:51:35 the second would return true if any items in the sexp are non-nil 22:51:45 in a sexp? 22:51:52 a list 22:51:55 woops 22:51:56 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has quit [Quit: Want lisppaste in your channel? Email lisppaste-requests AT common-lisp.net.] 22:52:00 lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 22:52:01 every 22:52:08 some and every 22:52:13 nice! 22:52:15 thanks a lot 22:52:21 clhs every 22:52:22 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_everyc.htm 22:52:27 I kept trying "all" and "any" 22:52:49 thanks a bunch guys 22:53:38 -!- fitzgen [~fitzgen@c-67-201-205-34.reshall.wwu.edu] has left #lisp 22:54:09 the opposite of every is notany. :\ 22:54:25 -!- silenius [~silenius@rrcs-64-183-24-50.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:56:26 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:56:58 sivel [sivel@freenode/staff/sivel] has joined #lisp 22:57:37 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:59:47 does this guy ever come here? http://abhishek.geek.nz/ 23:00:01 -!- sivel [sivel@freenode/staff/sivel] has left #lisp 23:01:40 Mannerisky [~mannerisk@24-117-137-23.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #lisp 23:02:36 is lispbox still the easiest way to go for windows development? 23:05:27 The easiest way is to switch to Linux, hehe 23:05:35 Guthur: ;) 23:05:57 Only joking, some people use Emacs and clisp on windows, I believe 23:06:18 Guthur: I use emacs and CCL on Win7 23:06:34 still haven't fixed Slime though ;) 23:06:44 also used CLISP from Lispbox 23:07:01 Mannerisky: lispbox is the easy way, but emacs included in the bundle is very old 23:07:04 (2003-2004) 23:07:21 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:09:08 hullo 23:09:31 -!- myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:09:49 Mannerisky, I would think ACL would be the default for Windows 23:09:59 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:11:49 unless they've changed they make the older (2-3 years) releases avail free for personal use 23:12:50 -!- abend [~alx@67.136.131.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:13:51 Why do people even use Windows? O_o 23:13:58 myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 23:14:15 Odin-: Because legacy is a bitch 23:14:24 :D 23:14:29 It makes Unix look like the systems UNIX-HATERS used. :p 23:14:37 and frankly speaking, NT isn't that bad :P 23:14:37 Odin-: $. 23:14:54 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 23:15:08 p_l: I liked 3.11. 8) 23:15:35 Odin-: still, 3.x was just a bunch of DLLs that made a common environment on top of DOS 23:15:59 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Quit: Rebooting. DISK READ ERROR: fun for the whole family] 23:16:19 p_l: Yes. Well, I was ten years old when Win95 came out, so that bit didn't trouble me much at the time. 23:16:50 Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@d207-6-77-199.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 23:16:50 OmniMancer2 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 23:17:00 -!- slash_ [~Unknown@whgeh00014.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:17:06 lol @ mathrick 23:17:09 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:17:26 brb pillaging and plundering 23:17:43 People use windows because of network effects. 23:18:26 Although, these days, everything seems to be converging toward the posix model, so it's less of an issue 23:18:58 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:19:01 Windows is resisting, though. 23:19:10 I don't think so. 23:19:32 It uses processes and has posix compatibility layers. 23:19:33 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:19:50 So user programs now run in disjoint virtual machines. 23:20:07 phobbs [~paul@chu-gw-b.churchillcambridge.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:20:34 Can you always replace a single quote '(1 2 3) with a backquote `(1 2 3)? If so why do we have single quotes anyway? 23:20:37 It's essentially the same model as what posix uses -- the difference is in the details of the external interface to those processes. 23:20:40 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 23:20:59 Zhivago: You are aware that POSIX _is_ those external interfaces, right? 23:21:01 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:21:03 phobbs: Yes, and for historical reasons. 23:21:23 well, NT is more VMS-like than POSIX-like 23:21:34 phobbs: backquote allows using , in macros, I'm not sure if ' allows it 23:21:35 odin: You have a talent for avoiding comprehension, I think. 23:21:48 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.194.13] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:22:00 TeMPOraL: But why do we have single quotes? 23:22:37 I don't know :D 23:22:42 Moogey [~jadelucca@c-69-142-135-104.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:23 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0103-86-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:23:24 Zhivago: The "model" (as you seem to be using the term) has nothing whatever to do with the network effects keeping Windows in place; the interfaces specified in POSIX do. 23:23:55 Zhivago: So what's the comprehending that I'm failing to do, specifically? 23:25:30 TeMPOraL: maybe it's a signal for readability. I.e. a backquote means "here comes a ," while a single quote is more mundane, so you don't need to pay attention 23:25:39 otherwise I don't see a need for two different quotes 23:26:15 phobbs: probably; I usually see ' for normal quotation, and ` in macros 23:26:40 used when one wants to use , or @, 23:26:43 quote was also afaik first historically 23:27:52 odin: Is windows 3.11 a more or less similar to the posix model than windows xp? 23:28:03 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:28:12 odin: Your basic sin appears to be that you want to confuse "posix api" with "posix model". 23:29:11 Zhivago: Your basic sin seems to be that you don't realise that POSIX is an interface standard. 23:30:04 odin: Like I said, a talent for avoiding comprehension. 23:30:55 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:32:48 Odin: Also, you are wrong. 23:32:50 Zhivago: Which reminds me, you haven't answered my question. What is it that I'm not comprehending? 23:33:02 Odin: You don't understand what posix is. 23:33:22 -!- ejs [~eugen@94-248-105-200.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:33:24 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109.92.124.218] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:33:32 Odin: Tell me about 'cat' as part of the posix standard. 23:33:41 -!- cschreiner [~licoresse@cm-84.209.103.64.getinternet.no] has quit [Quit: cschreiner] 23:33:58 cschreiner [~cschreine@cm-84.209.103.64.getinternet.no] has joined #lisp 23:34:00 Your second problem is an inability to grasp the difference been 'model' and 'specification'. 23:34:02 Zhivago: POSIX is an interface. It's an interface that makes specific assumptions about the capabilities of the underlying system, such as multiple processes and users, but it's nevertheless specified as an interface. 23:34:02 TR2N [email@89.180.146.107] has joined #lisp 23:34:16 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 23:35:28 Odin: Tell me about 'cat' as part of the posix standard. 23:35:49 posix cat 23:35:49 http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007908799/xcu/cat.html 23:36:14 Odin: Posix is not "an interface". 23:36:21 Zhivago: Then what is it? 23:36:34 hmm, what doees I in POSIX stand for? 23:36:37 does* 23:36:43 Odin: It is a standard that specifies systems. 23:36:55 ;) 23:37:12 Zhivago: That's not what it says of itself. 23:37:27 Odin: Tell me about 'cat' as part of the posix standard. 23:37:39 Zhivago: why do you keep repeating that 23:37:48 Because I haven't gotten an answer yet. 23:37:52 Zhivago: you got a url 23:38:03 Zhivago: 'cat' is a part of POSIX. 23:38:04 do you want odin to copy and paste the contents of it? 23:38:04 Odin is to busy avoiding comprehending anything to answer it. 23:38:11 As was, indeed, pasted here in a link. 23:38:31 btw, specbot needs to be updated 23:38:32 Odin: So, what isn't "an interface" if programs are included? 23:38:40 that's an old version of POSIX. :) 23:38:51 Odin: Or did you intend for your claim to be meaningless? 23:38:55 Zhivago: Wait  what? 23:39:02 Zhivago: Are you freakin' stupid? 23:39:18 Zhivago: Your OWN claim was that "the POSIX model" didn't involve external utilities. 23:39:27 Odin: Where did I claim that? 23:39:38 _danb_ [~user@124-168-128-117.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 23:39:40 Sorry. External interface. 23:39:46 Odin: Where did I claim that? 23:39:49 if whoever runs specbot is around, it'd be nice to have it point to http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/ instead 23:39:54 Play nice people, hehe 23:39:58 -!- benny [~benny@i577A836A.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:40:09 -!- sykopomp|jeejah` [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:40:18 It's essentially the same model as what posix uses -- the difference is in the details of the external interface to those processes. 23:40:22 sykopomp|jeejah [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 23:40:39 POSIX specified the external interface - and ONLY the external interface. 23:40:49 s/specified/specifies/; 23:41:22 Odin: Wrong. Posix also defines internal interfaces, such as those provided by libraries. 23:41:52 Odin Zhivago: I declare this conversation officially useless. 23:42:08 Zhivago: What's the difference? 23:42:10 As I said, a talent for avoiding comprehension. 23:42:11 You don't have to prove yourself right, you won't win a prize. 23:42:20 gruseom [~daniel@S01060026f2fdf187.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:42:27 Zhivago: stop being insulting. 23:42:28 foom: It was useless a long time ago. I just don't have anything better to do. :) 23:42:38 Odin: Well, posix differentiates those in terms of being syscalls or not. 23:42:52 foom: If I'm disturbing you, I can stop 23:43:30 curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:44:13 Odin: However, all of this is irrelevant to my point, which is that all common OSes are converging toward the basic posix model of having discrete processes. 23:44:26 Odin: Which is the point you seem to find hardest to comprehend. 23:44:29 Zhivago: The standard itself actually quite specifically says that the C interface and the shell/utilities interface are two methods of accessing the system. 23:44:44 Indeed, bring inner peace to #lisp and stop this outward display of obstinance 23:44:47 Odin: Irrelevant. 23:45:18 Guthur: Peace is overrated. Peace makes people complacent. :) 23:45:32 Hm, no, that sort of comment winds me up on ignore lists. 23:45:43 felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has joined #lisp 23:45:46 Nevermind that. I'll stop. 23:46:54 We need someone to come in and ask a nice lispy question. 23:47:43 By 'nice' I presume you don't mean "would anyone be interested in implementing POSIX in Common Lisp?" 23:48:04 (I'm only half joking.) 23:48:20 The question on why the need for ` as an escapable quoted s-exp 23:48:32 There's that, too. 23:48:45 hey, I have one - any good (and recently updated / under development) Web framework for common lisp? 23:48:46 :D 23:48:55 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 23:49:10 *rtoym* attempts to translate some cmucl messages 23:49:15 Having ' seperate from ` means you can quote something and be absolutely sure you won't get into multi-level headaches? 23:49:50 if you don't have quote, then you couldn't do (defmacro msv (x) `(symbol-value ',x)) 23:50:19 (not that you'd probably ever want to do that particular thing, but there's real cases like that) 23:50:28 stray_hound__ [~stray@c-24-245-50-140.hsd1.wi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:51:36 Could the reader not work that out? is it the readers or evals responsibility btw 23:52:13 -!- stray_hound__ is now known as MalcolmXJohnLeni 23:52:41 -!- tessier__ is now known as tessier 23:53:01 well, (defmacro msv (x) `(symbol-value `,x)) is totally different... 23:54:11 guthur: Consider `(a `(b ,c)) vs `(a '(b ,c)) 23:55:55 Ah yep, just running a few tests to make it clear 23:56:22 foom: `(symbol-value `,,x)? 23:57:24 -!- mrSpec is now known as spec`away 23:58:15 nyef: errrr uhhh. yes, of course that's right. :) 23:58:22 -!- cschreiner [~cschreine@cm-84.209.103.64.getinternet.no] has quit [Quit: cschreiner] 23:58:45 okay fine, so it's just inconvenient not necessary! ;) 23:58:47 Thanks for the help. Lispbox does not seem to work on Win7x64, but ACL does 23:59:34 -!- derp is now known as lol