00:01:15 -!- Paraselene_ [~Not@79-67-148-135.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Disconnected by services] 00:01:17 Paraselene [~Not@79-67-148-135.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 00:01:24 hefner [~hefner@ppp-61-90-83-139.revip.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 00:01:46 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:02:34 -!- faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has left #lisp 00:03:58 -!- iPac [~bubble@p54AA7426.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:04:49 -!- bizarrefish [~lee@host86-146-52-27.range86-146.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:06:09 bizarrefish [~lee@host86-146-52-27.range86-146.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 00:13:14 -!- TeMPOraL [~user@188.147.160.211.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has quit [Quit: brb] 00:14:55 TeMPOraL [~user@188.147.160.211.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has joined #lisp 00:17:47 CrEddy_ [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 00:18:32 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-25-190.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 00:20:46 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-95-173.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:21:01 -!- plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-20-121.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:21:09 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-65-220.ipnets.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 00:22:21 -!- lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-4-76.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:22:53 -!- md1 [~user@chello089173014058.chello.sk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:23:39 Fuck yeah! 00:23:51 I implemented dumb, unelegant and unusable currying. 00:23:55 But I did it! 00:25:32 ikki [~ikki@189.139.94.2] has joined #lisp 00:25:52 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:28:47 sykopomp|jeejah [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 00:29:39 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@rrcs-67-78-79-54.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 00:30:37 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 00:31:09 *hefner* pours one out for his homies 00:34:34 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 00:37:06 phryk: Now why would you do that 00:37:09 Just use more macros 00:42:25 -!- fihi09``` [~user@pool-96-224-168-75.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:44:33 fihi09 [~user@pool-96-224-168-75.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:48:14 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-61-90-83-139.revip.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: hefner] 00:49:32 HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 00:49:53 -!- dysinger [~dysinger@cpe-98-150-133-209.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dysinger] 00:50:53 -!- Soulman [~knute@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:52:25 mikezor_ [~mikael@c-e3e970d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 00:52:35 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:53:02 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 00:53:12 -!- moeffju[Away] is now known as moeffju[ZzZz] 00:54:30 debiandebian [~chatzilla@ntszok016207.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:55:31 -!- mikezor [~mikael@c-e3e970d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:06:04 -!- Nshag [~none@AClermont-Ferrand-551-1-7-10.w92-133.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:07:52 blbrown [~Berlin@75.139.142.224] has joined #lisp 01:08:30 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-108-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:14:56 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 01:17:52 -!- TeMPOraL [~user@188.147.160.211.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has quit [Quit: zZzZz] 01:19:36 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 01:20:24 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-168-152-229.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 01:27:08 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-102-238.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 01:30:52 is there any organization of lisp symbols by type of symbol? (functions, classes, macros, variables, etc)? 01:33:02 oconnore_ [~eric@c-24-62-202-27.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:35:25 benny [~benny@i577A839C.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 01:37:41 -!- sykopomp|jeejah [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:37:56 sykopomp|jeejah [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 01:38:34 -!- redline6561 [~redline@adsl-190-191-78.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:39:31 eastwind: Not that I know of. 01:41:13 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:42:23 eastwind: you could implement it by looping over the exported symbols of a package and seeing if a function/variable/macro is bound to that symbol 01:45:42 madnificent, yeah, i suppose. i was looking for one of those in HTML page like fashion, I guess I can do it when I have time. :-) 01:51:05 aw|rerun [~aw@p5DDA8D01.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:51:09 -!- aw [~aw@p5DDA8D01.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 01:51:13 -!- aw|rerun is now known as aw 01:52:50 -!- necroforest [~jarred@pool-108-56-179-132.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:56:28 kencausey: that cdb-lookup thing has a bug. 02:01:22 aw|rerun [~aw@p5DDAA8D9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:03:21 -!- aw [~aw@p5DDA8D01.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 02:03:23 -!- aw|rerun is now known as aw 02:05:50 wakeup [~wakeup@koln-5d814263.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 02:06:30 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:07:11 -!- wakeup^ [~wakeup@koln-5d81a960.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:13:47 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-156-147-36.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:14:31 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 02:20:00 skeledrew 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[~dysinger@cpe-98-150-133-209.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:49:46 dys` [~andreas@krlh-5f737ea2.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 02:51:51 -!- dys [~andreas@krlh-5f72c56f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:57:43 -!- smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:00:31 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-102-238.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 03:02:11 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-102-238.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:03:05 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 03:06:30 smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:08:22 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-102-238.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 03:11:44 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-171-47.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:15:43 -!- LiamH [~nobody@pool-72-75-71-107.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:22:39 damn "could not optimize away %SAP-ALIEN" 03:23:11 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-102-238.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:23:19 tcr [~tcr@118.101.174.80] has joined #lisp 03:24:44 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 03:25:42 -!- blbrown [~Berlin@75.139.142.224] has left #lisp 03:26:11 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.177.0.205] has joined #lisp 03:28:30 mindCrime__ [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:29:05 -!- pnq [~asdf@cpe-174-101-95-132.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 03:29:35 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 03:30:17 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-163-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 03:31:05 -!- mindCrime__ [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 03:31:36 -!- Guthur [~michael@host213-122-220-102.range213-122.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:39:03 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-169-80-203.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:39:05 -!- xinming [~hyy@125.109.247.155] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:41:51 -!- Odditus is now known as Oddity 03:42:03 -!- Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-66-33.iburst.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:44:39 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.177.0.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:45:51 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:50:42 this %SAP-ALIEN optimization failure is everywhere, even in the sbcl manual examples 03:53:49 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:56:49 and i don't see any transformations for it, is it even supposed to optimize it? 04:04:59 -!- dysinger [~dysinger@cpe-98-150-133-209.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dysinger] 04:09:01 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:12:06 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 04:14:37 sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has joined #lisp 04:24:48 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.177.0.205] has joined #lisp 04:28:37 SandGorgon_ [~OmNomNomO@122.177.0.205] has joined #lisp 04:31:17 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:31:38 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.177.0.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:32:09 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:40:02 I don't really understand that note either; I remembe I once fixed such a note in swank-sbcl.lisp by adding an ftype declaim. 04:40:24 HG` [~HG@xdsley228.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 04:43:03 lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-31-218.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 04:43:12 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.94.2] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:46:03 i usually use either SAPs directly or CFFI, but that's a note from sb-bsd-sockets 04:48:00 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 04:49:37 Good morning! 04:49:38 beach, memo from vng: The hotels near the university are not comfortable. So, I think you shouldn't stay in there. Those in the center are better. 04:51:31 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsley228.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: HG`] 04:51:36 -!- HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:54:52 tcr: it's a note to the effect that we weren't able to perform an unbox/box transformation on alien-sap/%sap-alien. 04:55:09 HG` [~HG@xdsley228.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 04:55:42 So a real alien value is going to be consed up, instead of only doing compile-time type checking to only leave sap-manipulation at runtime. 04:57:35 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsley228.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 04:58:38 What will this box contain? 04:59:04 pkhuong: that's clear, but how to make it able to perform that transformation? 04:59:07 What are the conditions that underlie being able to optimize away, or not? 05:03:19 minion: memo for Xach: has a CDB reader for SBCL that, iirc, provides most of the reading functionality in the native library. 05:03:20 Remembered. I'll tell Xach when he/she/it next speaks. 05:03:46 tcr: the box contains a SAP and its sb-alien type (the alien value) 05:05:11 stassats: mostly when all the places a SAP is coerced into an alien value are in the same scope as the place where the alien is used. 05:06:09 for example, sb-bsd-sockets::get-address-info isn't that the case? 05:06:09 HG` [~HG@85.8.71.220] has joined #lisp 05:07:29 stassats: I don't have that function in 1.0.37.44 05:07:56 pkhuong: open name-service.lisp 05:08:24 easyE [oU9gQUCnIs@panix3.panix.com] has joined #lisp 05:09:25 On which form do you get the note? 05:09:36 can't you just c-c c-c it? 05:09:38 on a lot of forms 05:09:38 (sb-alien:deref res) 05:09:43 is the first 05:09:57 pkhuong: are you on a mac? 05:10:02 stassats: right now, yes. 05:12:33 -!- HG` [~HG@85.8.71.220] has quit [Quit: HG`] 05:15:00 madeinchina [~user@173-30-23-111.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 05:16:06 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.92.180.61] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:18:32 Hello. Is it possible to create a variable that is only defined within the scope of a function but whose value can be changed and persists between function calls? I could use a defvar, but I'm wondering if this is possible. 05:18:53 madeinchina: that's called a closure 05:19:07 ok, will check it out. 05:19:08 fusss [~chatzilla@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 05:19:33 aliencomp.lisp is not exactly immediately penetrable 05:21:03 Sorry, got off on a tangent trying to make the logic smarter. 05:21:36 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.90.229] has joined #lisp 05:21:54 The only case we recognize is direct (alien-sap (sap-alien ..)), or the variation where the SAP-ALIEN is bound to a single-use variable (which ends up being substituted with its value) 05:21:59 I'm right now trying to figure out how DEREF expands to %SAP-ALIEN 05:22:06 Since it's multipe use, we're done. 05:22:11 -!- smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 05:22:30 (and by use, that's REF in python-speak) 05:22:35 jgracin [~jgracin@vipnet4921.mobile.carnet.hr] has joined #lisp 05:24:20 madeinchina: (defun make-fn/static-var () (let ((static-var 42)) (lambda () static-var))) 05:25:03 madeinchina: (funcall (make-fn/static-var)) => 42 05:27:21 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:27:26 this whole alien busyness is too complex for me 05:28:06 madeinchina: if you really want a toplevel function, that's (let ((foo 42)) (defun foo () foo))... But defvar/defun is often easier for interactive/iterative development. 05:30:21 There's also the less-portable (defun foo () (let ((foo (load-time-value (list 42)))) ...)) 05:31:35 (sb-alien:with-alien ((res (* (* sockint::addrinfo)) :local (sb-alien:make-alien (* sockint::addrinfo)))) ...) 05:31:52 that will merely allocate a pointer to a addrinfo struct? 05:31:59 or will it allocate a addrinfo struct? 05:32:13 that's a pointer. 05:32:33 just a SAP, and it's all DX. 05:32:37 So I wonder why we don't allocate the struct, and pass its address onto getaddrinfo 05:33:35 probably because of issues of freeing 05:34:36 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:36:11 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 05:39:06 pkhuong: that makes sense. bytecolor: how would you change the value then? My use case is toggling the value between 't and nil. 05:40:04 you change it in the usual way 05:41:25 (let ((myvar (funcall (make-fn/static-var)))) (setq myvar (not myvar)))? 05:41:36 *fusss* a perl CGI "contact us" form, which invokes a shell script, which invokes a clisp binary with a mailer image, which invokes mailx as an external process 05:41:58 madeinchina: you're confused 05:42:01 madeinchina: Sounds like a global variable is just fine for your purpose 05:42:13 stassats: yeah :-) 05:42:19 minion: PCL? 05:42:20 PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 05:42:26 But maybe you can paste (http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp) your actual code 05:42:49 tcr: I'm using defvar now, but I was wondering if this was possible. 05:45:16 ska` [~user@124.157.137.205] has joined #lisp 05:45:58 stassats: (defmacro foo (x . y) 42); (foo |), autodoc will swallow the y 05:46:02 do you have time for that? 05:46:42 stassats: it's ugly, but if you *really* want to avoid consing aliens up, you can make sure the only reference to a with-alien is an ALIEN-SAP right after, and use a symbol-macro to have a fresh SAP-ALIEN for each form. 05:46:48 -!- maden [~maden@dsl-151-253.aei.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:47:10 Getting a box/unbox transform working in the presence of side effects is a bit hairy... 05:47:53 tcr: looks like i have 05:47:53 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:48:50 pkhuong: i really want to avoid it, since this makes host resolution the bottleneck 05:48:51 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:49:10 seriously? 05:49:28 And not using that function so much isn't an option? 05:49:38 my mexican neighbors are partying their arses off. The 'tuba rock' is like icepicks in my ears ;) 05:49:49 it's an option if your host doesn't change 05:50:40 eugu [~Miranda@212.1.246.237] has joined #lisp 05:50:59 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:50:59 madeinchina: write a few closures. the returned lambda captures the lexical environment. so whatever is in lexical scope can be 'captured' by the lambda. 05:52:20 and i thought it's better to fix the problem, not to workaround it 05:54:20 bytecolor: ok, I get that. But I'm not sure how to turn that into a "static variable". My goal is this: 05:54:21 (defun toggle () 05:54:21 (with-static (static-var t) 05:54:21 (setq static-var (not static-var)) 05:54:24 static-var)) 05:55:25 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:55:37 -!- c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:56:02 madeinchina: load-time-value, or move the scope of the "static" variable around the function. 05:56:26 pkhuong: ok thanks. 05:57:25 In order of idiomaticity, you see defvar/defun, then let/defun and more rarely l-t-v/mutable box. 05:58:24 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:02:25 nixie [~nixie@121.227.51.45] has joined #lisp 06:02:25 pnq [~gaiug@ACA20535.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 06:03:05 thanks for the help, people. 06:03:07 -!- madeinchina [~user@173-30-23-111.client.mchsi.com] has left #lisp 06:07:22 smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:11:48 tcr: fixed (x . y) 06:12:48 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 06:14:34 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-60-76.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 06:22:18 Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-240-89.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 06:24:41 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:28:12 pickles [~rtaylor@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 06:31:21 gospch [~gospch@unaffiliated/gospch] has joined #lisp 06:37:26 stassats: hmm you sure it's not the resolving process itself which causes the bottleneck? Especially if it resolves using a non-threadsafe function returning a static buffer and needs a lock until it returns (i.e. gethostbyname(3)) 06:37:32 yet I have no idea what your implementation uses 06:41:47 potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f6655af-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 06:42:07 i'm sure 06:43:59 (time (car (sb-bsd-sockets:host-ent-addresses (sb-bsd-sockets:get-host-by-name "google.com")))) => 0.4 seconds 06:44:14 (time (ccl:ipaddr-to-dotted (CCL:lookup-hostname "google.com"))) => 0.01 seconds 06:44:31 so, even calling it one time is already a problem 06:44:43 and they both use getaddrinfo 06:47:34 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:49:26 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-102-238.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:51:41 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:54:53 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-78-203.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 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[~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-108-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 07:44:00 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181217253.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 07:47:16 nixie [~nixie@121.227.51.45] has joined #lisp 07:48:37 -!- nixie [~nixie@121.227.51.45] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:52:29 sykopomp|jeejah [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 07:59:20 nixie [~nixie@121.227.51.45] has joined #lisp 07:59:41 -!- kvsari [~kvsari@203.171.93.21.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:01:51 stassats: thank you 08:02:07 -!- nixie [~nixie@121.227.51.45] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:02:20 nixie [~nixie@121.227.51.45] has joined #lisp 08:04:47 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-144-13-192.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: night] 08:05:22 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 08:06:40 -!- nixie [~nixie@121.227.51.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:09:54 nixie [~nixie@121.227.51.45] has joined #lisp 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myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 08:43:28 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:46:32 HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 08:50:20 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:53:38 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.172.227.71] has joined #lisp 08:57:48 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.172.227.71] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:58:13 -!- loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:08:35 c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:10:37 Vivek [~obadiah@gnu-india/admin/VivekVC] has joined #lisp 09:19:32 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [] 09:22:51 -!- myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:23:04 do most lisps have as much partial evaluation as SBCL? 09:23:53 i am wondering if its a secret to its speed 09:24:46 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 09:26:01 myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 09:26:19 loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has joined #lisp 09:26:50 pickles [~rtaylor@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 09:27:06 sbcl has partial evaluation? 09:31:40 i have heard it does.. base don Levente Mészáros code? 09:32:08 based on Levente Mészáros* 09:33:28 pemryan [~pem@2001:cc0:201e:107:221:86ff:fe1a:e5aa] has joined #lisp 09:33:34 well many lisps will convert things at compile like (+ 1 1) ==> 2 ... sometimes not sure if "partial evalutator" in compiler is the appropriate term though 09:33:38 -!- cmsimon [~iamcms2@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [] 09:33:46 all i know is that sbcl derives types and selects more specialized versions of general constructions 09:35:45 that would be a defination i guess 09:36:46 not all partial evaluation implies simplification like (+ x 1 -1) => x 09:38:27 the type information being propigated in compilation is pretty important i bet? 09:39:59 TeMPOraL [~user@188.147.162.201.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has joined #lisp 09:41:04 <_3b> dmiles_afk: that simplification isn't valid anyway if you don't know types :p 09:41:21 i have to make an example .. perhaps like a structure that has a single slot that is holding a fixnum... i access both structures slots and add them togehr and return the numeric result.... perhaps the compiler realizes the time the numbers spend in the structure would be compiled away 09:41:52 *p_l* would like an interface to the type iference system, so he could get a graph of types 09:42:01 _3b: right the simplification would need a numberp test .. if it wasnt a number it need to error 09:42:18 <_3b> dmiles_afk: nope, not valid for floats either 09:43:06 _23b: oh so it might need to change floats to integers to? 09:43:17 (in some cases) 09:43:48 <_3b> (well, at least if you want your float support to be sane, in preference to fast) 09:44:27 <_3b> some people might prefer faster answers that might vary depending on compiler support 09:44:40 so the simplified for version might be (if (integerp x) x (if (floatp x ...) ... ) 09:45:15 *_3b* would expect it to be OK for rationals, not just integers 09:45:23 xinming [~hyy@125.109.247.155] has joined #lisp 09:46:29 md1 [~user@chello089173014058.chello.sk] has joined #lisp 09:46:45 -!- myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:49:13 galiley [~user@77.70.2.99] has joined #lisp 09:51:12 trying to decide how much focus to spend on hu.dwim.partial-eval / 09:51:56 myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 09:52:21 -!- pemryan [~pem@2001:cc0:201e:107:221:86ff:fe1a:e5aa] has left #lisp 09:57:50 -!- smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:59:29 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-031-121.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:59:39 -!- schaueho 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[~russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 10:35:09 -!- fihi09 [~user@pool-96-224-168-75.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:35:23 fihi09 [~user@pool-96-224-168-75.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:35:26 beach` [~user@ABordeaux-158-1-37-55.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:35:27 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 10:35:47 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:36:43 -!- errkle [~user@lawn-143-215-206-57.lawn.gatech.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:37:01 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-158-1-37-55.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:37:09 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:37:11 -!- mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:39:45 -!- segv [~mb@p54BE779E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:39:48 pkhuong: thanks. 10:39:49 Xach, memo from pkhuong: has a CDB reader for SBCL that, iirc, provides most of the reading functionality in the native library. 10:40:08 *Xach* has a from-scratch writer in progress too 10:40:08 -!- pickles [~rtaylor@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:41:53 HG` [~HG@xdslex142.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 10:43:00 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.90.229] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:44:24 xan_ [~xan@83.34.169.207] has joined #lisp 10:45:15 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-65-220.ipnets.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:45:33 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-67-226.ipnets.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 10:46:31 segv [~mb@p54BE764A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:48:18 Guthur [~michael@host213-122-220-102.range213-122.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 10:52:12 Soulman [~knute@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 10:54:50 -!- galiley [~user@77.70.2.99] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:55:03 galiley [~user@77.70.2.99] has joined #lisp 11:00:37 SEANKuo [~guoshaona@2001:0:53aa:64c:e6:6e88:84f6:6f48] has joined #lisp 11:08:18 pkhuong: yours has, i think, the same bug mine has. 11:09:20 well, maybe not. 11:09:22 *Xach* keeps reading 11:10:58 tcr [~tcr@118.101.174.80] has joined #lisp 11:14:23 zoldar [~zoldar@pc2.wejh.gda.pl] has joined #lisp 11:14:31 -!- yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:15:16 Xach: what's cdb ? 11:15:29 zoldar pasted "output in slime-repl instead of browser. why?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99297 11:16:11 yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:16:36 zoldar: your :stream stream is misplaced 11:17:17 -!- galiley [~user@77.70.2.99] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:18:14 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:18:22 ok, got it, thanks 11:23:26 -!- HG` [~HG@xdslex142.osnanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:23:50 -!- zoldar [~zoldar@pc2.wejh.gda.pl] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 11:25:12 HG` [~HG@xdslex142.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 11:25:28 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@2002:6fbc:2911:6:21e:c2ff:feb4:2a5d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:25:50 hohoho [~hohoho@2002:7230:12e0:6:21e:c2ff:feb4:2a5d] has joined #lisp 11:27:22 iPac2 [~bubble@p54AA7426.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:27:23 debiandebian [~chatzilla@ntszok016207.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:28:02 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483D952.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:29:15 -!- iPac [~bubble@p54AA7426.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:34:20 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:35:38 fe[nl]ix: an on-disk hash table format 11:37:34 -!- loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:44:54 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:47:05 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 11:48:45 -!- merl15 [~merl@188-22-169-123.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:50:38 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0108-90-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 11:51:27 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 11:52:58 fd [~vanonsele@vc-41-26-210-30.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:53:52 -!- fd [~vanonsele@vc-41-26-210-30.umts.vodacom.co.za] has left #lisp 11:55:15 -!- iPac2 [~bubble@p54AA7426.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:55:29 Yuuhi [benni@p5483D952.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:04:02 francogrex [~user@221.116-65-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 12:07:12 is there a cool bit hack so that 0 -> 1, else -> 0? 12:07:36 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:08:23 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 12:08:26 -!- Vivek [~obadiah@gnu-india/admin/VivekVC] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:09:47 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-3-246.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:11:24 xor with 1 12:12:05 well, it's not one-bit 12:12:18 Yeah so prepare a mask 12:12:25 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0108-90-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:14:46 do you mean (if (zerop x) 1 0)? 12:14:57 lichtblau: yes 12:15:41 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 12:16:10 hmm. for a 32 bit integer that would be something like (- (ash (logand (lognot x) (1- x)) -31)) I believe, but I'm not certain about how to approach it with bignums 12:16:21 i'll try (logxor (logand 1 x) 1) 12:18:06 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:18:26 -!- myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:19:37 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-62-253.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 12:21:09 if that is a solution, I must have misunderstood the problem 12:21:23 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-25-190.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:22:51 Vivek [~obadiah@static-mum-59.181.110.41.mtnl.net.in] has joined #lisp 12:23:52 myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 12:24:38 the problem was to replace "count (zerop x)" to "sum (log ...)" 12:27:28 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: reboot] 12:27:39 Hi, I think there was a way to make ecl compile every function automatically (the way sbcl does in default mode). Anyone knows how? 12:31:07 carlocci [~nes@93.37.215.82] has joined #lisp 12:31:07 you know something like the sb-ext:*evaluator-mode* 12:32:13 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 12:33:15 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 12:33:21 and i forgot about even numbers 12:34:07 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:34:36 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 12:34:47 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 12:36:34 somecodehere [~ingvar@16.198.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 12:37:13 loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has joined #lisp 12:39:34 jgracin [~jgracin@vipnet4921.mobile.carnet.hr] has joined #lisp 12:40:23 -!- francogrex [~user@221.116-65-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:45:12 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:47:58 merl15 [~merl@188-22-169-123.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 12:48:42 -!- HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:48:46 -!- merl15 [~merl@188-22-169-123.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:49:41 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@2002:7230:12e0:6:21e:c2ff:feb4:2a5d] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:50:14 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:53:38 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755ed6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:53:55 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-143-160.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:58:38 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-5-81.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 12:59:45 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:59:48 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 13:00:50 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 13:04:35 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:05:17 iPac [~bubble@p54AA6D64.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:06:40 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:10:50 i finally settled on (1- (ash (1- x) -31)) 13:11:07 shaved some milliseconds 13:13:05 sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has joined #lisp 13:13:39 the first s/1-/-/ 13:16:18 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-67-226.ipnets.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:17:26 jmbr [~jmbr@30.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 13:19:08 -!- andreer [andreer@flode.pvv.ntnu.no] has left #lisp 13:22:02 what relative speedup does that absolute milliseconds number correspond to? 13:22:05 I'm surprised that shifting should have a systematic performance advantage over a conditional move at all. 13:22:55 it was 5.68 seconds and became 5.52 13:22:57 Shifting bits this way is a fun game when it's about minimizing the number of lisp forms, subject to arbitrary conditions :-). But when it comes to actual optimization, a comparison to zero should be hard to beat, no? 13:23:44 it's not an actual code, just fooling around 13:24:33 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483D952.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:25:57 Madsy [~madman@fu/coder/madsy] has joined #lisp 13:27:38 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 13:27:45 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 13:28:15 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755ed6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:28:20 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 13:31:55 moah [~gnu@dslb-188-101-028-018.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:32:41 the better would be to test for (zerop (mod x y)) 13:33:15 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181217253.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 13:38:53 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:43:00 -!- moah [~gnu@dslb-188-101-028-018.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:47:37 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-5-81.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:52:10 Yuuhi [benni@p5483D952.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:54:31 phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 14:07:57 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 14:08:41 -!- delYsid [~user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:09:58 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:09:59 udzinari` [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 14:10:38 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:11:22 blbrown [~Berlin@75.139.142.224] has joined #lisp 14:13:23 -!- adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-55-157.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:14:39 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 14:15:17 josemanuel [~josemanue@42.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 14:17:26 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 14:18:47 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 14:22:52 -!- udzinari` [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:23:08 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 14:25:14 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-119-74.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:20 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 14:30:05 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-11-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:33:57 -!- Madsy [~madman@fu/coder/madsy] has quit [] 14:36:55 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.1] 14:37:29 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has quit [Quit: -arividerchi] 14:37:48 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 14:47:03 hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 14:47:26 The SBCL downloads seem to be broken, I get 404's... 14:52:02 Ok, what the heck. If I click Stop in the browser at the right moment, the download starts, but if I don't, I get redirected to the 404. 14:55:01 -!- hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 15:08:51 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.1] 15:12:10 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.177.0.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:12:37 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@93.85.47.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:15:57 egoz [~Egoz@118.96.226.201] has joined #lisp 15:19:47 -!- djinni` [~djinni`@li14-39.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 15:21:06 djinni` [~djinni`@li14-39.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 15:22:22 -!- TeMPOraL [~user@188.147.162.201.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has quit [Quit: -> theatre] 15:24:12 Peteris [~peteris_e@84.237.180.192] has joined #lisp 15:25:08 -!- Peteris [~peteris_e@84.237.180.192] has left #lisp 15:25:37 redline6561 [~redline@adsl-190-191-78.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 15:27:29 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:28:14 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:28:22 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-128-112.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 15:33:39 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-128-112.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:35:58 pjb` [~t@81.202.18.80.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 15:36:28 marioxcc [~user@200.92.175.147] has joined #lisp 15:38:16 -!- jgracin [~jgracin@vipnet4921.mobile.carnet.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:40:05 fd [~vanonsele@vc-41-28-156-179.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:41:24 -!- fd [~vanonsele@vc-41-28-156-179.umts.vodacom.co.za] has left #lisp 15:41:54 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-21-63.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 15:44:57 Joreji [~thomas@94-065.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:46:06 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-21-63.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:48:22 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@42.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 15:49:51 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 15:50:46 -!- iPac [~bubble@p54AA6D64.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:52:10 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483D952.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:55:11 iPac [~bubble@p54AA6702.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:56:37 -!- oconnore_ [~eric@c-24-62-202-27.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:57:05 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:58:40 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 16:01:37 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:02:10 fallen` [~vanonsele@vc-41-28-156-179.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:03:51 -!- iPac [~bubble@p54AA6702.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:04:02 -!- tcr [~tcr@118.101.174.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:04:18 tcr [~tcr@118.101.174.80] has joined #lisp 16:04:24 Yuuhi [benni@p5483D952.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:04:27 -!- tcr [~tcr@118.101.174.80] has left #lisp 16:04:46 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:05:42 maden [~maden@modemcable068.120-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 16:07:20 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:07:39 -!- Joreji [~thomas@94-065.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:08:12 Joreji [~thomas@94-065.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 16:09:33 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:09:35 iPac [~bubble@p54AA650A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:11:46 -!- CrEddy_ [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:13:27 -!- Joreji [~thomas@94-065.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:17:38 dtangren [~dtangren@2002:426c:96e4:0:21c:b3ff:fec3:dc47] has joined #lisp 16:19:28 stassats: (if (zerop x) 1 0) will translate into a MOVcc, which is likely to be faster than a large shift. 16:19:58 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-156-147-87.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:22:58 tcr [~tcr@118.101.174.80] has joined #lisp 16:24:07 -!- dtangren [~dtangren@2002:426c:96e4:0:21c:b3ff:fec3:dc47] has left #lisp 16:24:22 -!- HG` [~HG@xdslex142.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: HG`] 16:24:59 seems to be translated to TEST and jump 16:25:21 stassats: version/arch? 16:25:39 x86/latest 16:25:46 Paste? 16:26:15 (disassemble (lambda (x) (declare (type fixnum x)) (if (zerop x) 1 0))) 16:26:39 stassats: paste the disassembly. 16:27:09 Oh.. mm, x86 doesn't have movcc enabled by default, does it? 16:27:23 I think I had illusions of supporting < 686 at that time. 16:28:00 so, you don't need a paste anymore? 16:28:22 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-156-147-87.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:28:57 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 16:29:54 actually, yeah. paste away 16:30:35 stassats pasted "(if (zerop x) 1 0)" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99309 16:31:06 what's your customize-backend-subfeatures.lisp? 16:31:08 -!- sykopomp|jeejah [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:32:17 No such file or directory 16:33:25 If you rebuild with (lamdba (subfeatures) (list* :cmov subfeatures)), you'll get a conditional move. You can also try PUSHing :cmov on sb-c:*backend-subfeatures*. 16:34:33 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-144-13-108.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:34:52 -!- eugu [~Miranda@212.1.246.237] has quit [Quit: eugu] 16:35:27 in your specific case, you can PUSH :CMOV, but in general, that'll lead to breakage, so you want to rebuild. We should consider making (:cmov :prefetch) the default on x86 though; 15 years is a long time (: 16:36:01 what breakage does it lead to in general? 16:36:24 let's see! 16:36:31 sykopomp|jeejah [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 16:36:35 jgracin [~jgracin@vipnet4921.mobile.carnet.hr] has joined #lisp 16:36:38 the assembly routines don't follow the same return convention 16:37:19 lucky we've never exported *backend-subfeatures* frobbing as an interface! 16:37:20 with :cmov, they just set the flags; without they return T or NIL. 16:37:31 Krystof: indeed! 16:37:46 Kizaru [~plaz@pool-173-76-170-157.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:38:53 -!- Kustnamenkloate [titan@unaffiliated/appetite] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:39:42 though, it doesn't look faster here 16:42:51 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:43:47 ska` [~user@124.157.137.205] has joined #lisp 16:44:18 HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 16:44:31 CrEddy_ [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 16:45:28 -!- SEANKuo [~guoshaona@2001:0:53aa:64c:e6:6e88:84f6:6f48] has quit [Quit: ] 16:47:28 Joreji [~thomas@86-084.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 16:47:45 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:48:08 and in the paste, couldn't it get away with only one jump? 16:50:16 i overlooked MOV EDX, 4, i guess it couldn't then 16:52:02 i want an assembly REPL 16:52:15 -!- Joreji [~thomas@86-084.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:52:58 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 16:53:23 Joreji [~thomas@86-084.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 16:53:40 pkhuong: i'm having trouble following your cdb code a bit, is it clear enough to you for me to ask you a question about how the lookup works? 16:53:56 pix2 [~pixel@p4FC57F2C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:54:36 -!- gospch [~gospch@unaffiliated/gospch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:56:05 -!- tcr [~tcr@118.101.174.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:57:46 -!- Joreji [~thomas@86-084.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:58:39 Joreji [~thomas@86-084.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 17:04:58 tcr [~tcr@118.101.174.80] has joined #lisp 17:11:12 -!- maden [~maden@modemcable068.120-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:19:48 -!- Joreji [~thomas@86-084.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:20:04 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 17:23:16 -!- tcr [~tcr@118.101.174.80] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:23:37 tcr [~tcr@118.101.174.80] has joined #lisp 17:23:44 -!- tcr [~tcr@118.101.174.80] has left #lisp 17:24:58 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-140-116-223.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:25:59 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-164-164.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:28:00 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 17:31:22 tcr [~tcr@118.101.174.80] has joined #lisp 17:31:37 -!- tcr [~tcr@118.101.174.80] has left #lisp 17:32:08 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.96.10.118] has joined #lisp 17:32:21 TR2N [email@89.180.215.53] has joined #lisp 17:34:00 -!- somecodehere [~ingvar@16.198.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:50:29 nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 17:52:11 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.18.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:52:24 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:53:10 md1 [~user@chello089173014058.chello.sk] has joined #lisp 17:53:22 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 17:56:57 rtra [~rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #lisp 17:58:02 -!- ve [~a@smith.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:58:27 ve [~a@smith.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 17:58:37 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.18.242] has joined #lisp 18:01:35 to the webdevs here - how often do you use advanced features of SQL databases? 18:02:07 killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has joined #lisp 18:03:23 (I already know that quite a big chunk of ruby community doesn't touch those at all) 18:03:56 what? You mean there's more to databases than just select *, insert, and update? :( 18:04:14 I've heard rumors about something called 'WHERE', but icba to figure it out. 18:04:16 what? there is something else than PRINT/READ? 18:04:43 well people restrict themselves alot so thir code works cross the serveral server types 18:05:00 p_l: what's advanced here? SQL is so under-standardized 18:05:08 p_l: what do you mean by advanced? Using different types of engine in MySQL, for example? 18:05:22 that even stuff that "works" portably has absurd performance characteristics on some stuff. 18:05:34 Do you call subselects and joins advanced? 18:05:39 stored procedures dont work on MySQL .. right? 18:05:45 delYsid [~user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 18:05:46 -!- Kizaru [~plaz@pool-173-76-170-157.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 18:06:03 lichtblau: I was thinking advanced types, arrays, stored procedures, various other stuff. Portability is not an issue 18:06:05 dmiles_afk: no, wrong 18:06:10 dmiles_afk: wrong; pretty sure they've been in since 5.0 or so 18:06:19 MySQL has most of the mod cons, these days 18:06:29 (provided you stick to innodb) 18:06:38 hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-117-193.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 18:06:50 PosGres have stored procedeedures to now? 18:06:52 dmiles_afk: They added some sort of stored prcoedures in 5.x 18:07:31 dmiles_afk: now, that one doesn't even deserve an answer 18:07:38 yeah the Next Q.. is how standardized these stored procs are between what i learned and what MySQL created 18:07:39 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.96.10.118] has quit [Quit: Well, the machine might have gone down. Brb after a reboot.] 18:08:00 i stopped having to write them in 1999 18:08:05 lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 18:08:26 -!- Vivek [~obadiah@static-mum-59.181.110.41.mtnl.net.in] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:10:11 p_l: to answer your original question, I think it certainly helps to use some of those features. 18:10:13 Sometimes you're forced to stay reasonably portable, and obviously that hinders use of idiomatic, efficient, and featureful SQL. 18:10:19 HG` [~HG@xdslfa076.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:11:21 dmiles_afk: Why do you want to use stored procedures 18:11:22 ? 18:11:24 varjag_ [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 18:11:27 lichtblau: ak yes sorry.. PL/PLSQL i thought was greater than MSSQL! .. very hoorid qestion of mine! 18:11:31 unpleasant things; hard to version control 18:11:31 But if you have an SQL database, you might as well use it, even if going through an ORM. At the very least for reporting-type stuff, but sometimes also during regular operation. Stored procedures, definitely. Fancy types, occasionally. 18:11:50 there are occasional applications where they're clearly appropriate, but often best avoided, really 18:12:11 rsynnott: well webdevs often want things nomrallized to an API.. thats why nomrally stored procs got created for them 18:13:02 rsynnott: did stuff like created all the approprioate places int he many support tables 18:13:03 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 18:13:19 for example, my question was spurtned by my issues with integrating GIS stuff and now with me looking how to optimize certain queries to be down to *one* round trip instead of 1+N 18:13:26 i just remember MySQL didnt have it.. but since now it does.. thats good 18:13:34 But just about all SQL dbs support them these days if you really want them 18:14:09 p_l: sounds like the usual slippery slope of eventually writing all logic in the database 18:14:24 There's a nice example of an appropriate use of a stored procedure in the postmodern bckend for elephant, actually 18:14:38 -!- varjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:14:42 can'tremember exactly what it IS, but I remember noticing that it would be something hard to do efficiently if a round-trip was desired 18:15:17 but I've seen very few such cases; a lot of stored procedure use seems gratuitous, and it can be a big maintenance headache 18:15:29 -!- ska` [~user@124.157.137.205] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:15:32 hahah.. i really did "lol" to the elephant refernce 18:16:10 ? 18:17:09 oh i read it wrong but it was a good way to take it i was thinking for "a postmodern elephant's backend" 18:17:37 lichtblau: actually I've read a very good argument for database to be also the center of business logic of application 18:18:12 but the slippery slope... make everything a stored proc for the webapps to call vs .. making a table of all the operation the web needs ballance 18:18:12 p_l: I've seen many such arguments 18:18:24 mostly written by DBAs, who have their job security to think of 18:18:25 :) 18:18:43 someone pointed out that he has a database that runs for over 10~15 years, and said database was central point to several different applications (moving the data would be hard to do at that point) 18:18:53 dmiles_afk: nah, elephant the object store thingy :) 18:19:34 Kustnamenkloate [titan@support.team.at.shellium.org] has joined #lisp 18:19:35 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.177.0.205] has joined #lisp 18:19:54 -!- Kustnamenkloate is now known as Guest70641 18:20:02 -!- Guest70641 [titan@support.team.at.shellium.org] has quit [Client Quit] 18:20:39 -!- sykopomp|jeejah [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:20:55 sykopomp|jeejah [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 18:22:23 what i really want to see sometime is to see a lisp program that exposes itself as a network SQL server 18:22:51 Vivek [~obadiah@static-mum-59.181.110.41.mtnl.net.in] has joined #lisp 18:22:52 since i would like to try to make Cyc replace one 18:23:11 daniel___ [~daniel@p5082F3C1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:23:15 that way people could use their startard MySQL network clinets on it 18:23:26 standard* 18:24:06 requires deciding who's SQL network API to clone 18:24:08 -!- Vivek [~obadiah@static-mum-59.181.110.41.mtnl.net.in] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:24:11 Kustnamenkloate [titan@unaffiliated/appetite] has joined #lisp 18:24:17 API/protocol 18:24:54 postgres would probably be easiest, if you wanted to do that 18:25:08 it's documented properly and doesn't change much, and there's already a cl impl of it 18:25:45 -!- p_l [plasek@gateway/shell/rootnode.net/x-nfmrrgufrduqxhzc] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:25:54 ah good.. its for the client.. so indeed it probly shows all parts the server needs 18:26:02 -!- daniel__ [~daniel@p5082B683.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:28:35 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:34:10 rdd [~user@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:34:28 hrrm postgresql-socket-api.lisp 18:34:31 perfect 18:38:34 -!- jgracin [~jgracin@vipnet4921.mobile.carnet.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:42:34 fallentest [~vanonsele@vc-41-28-82-18.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:42:45 -!- sykopomp|jeejah [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:43:06 -!- fallen` [~vanonsele@vc-41-28-156-179.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:43:07 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:44:04 -!- fallentest [~vanonsele@vc-41-28-82-18.umts.vodacom.co.za] has left #lisp 18:51:35 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:53:56 -!- varjag_ is now known as varjag 18:58:02 lambda_nil [~jhuelga@142.Red-80-33-85.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:46 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 19:00:53 p_l [plasek@gateway/shell/rootnode.net/x-awszenhhsbnxtdza] has joined #lisp 19:02:09 maden [~maden@modemcable068.120-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 19:03:22 ska` [~user@124.157.137.205] has joined #lisp 19:03:38 varjag_ [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:04:27 PiRSquared17 [~chatzilla@ip72-192-23-71.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:42 hmmm... we have ~295 people in the channel... 19:04:57 (in theory) 19:05:34 -!- varjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:05:59 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:07:49 p_l: i think a couple are bots 19:07:53 ;-) 19:08:01 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.177.0.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:09:40 I already discounted few for the bots :) 19:09:58 on join, irssi showed 302 nicks 19:10:22 7 bots? 19:11:07 and what do you want to do with all these people? 19:12:09 (do (something (to them))) 19:15:58 get them write more code 19:16:41 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:16:48 that's what i am doing now.. ;-) 19:16:49 19:16:50 minion: chant 19:16:51 MORE CODE 19:17:07 (insert maniacal laughter) 19:17:16 -!- aw [~aw@p5DDAA8D9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3-dev] 19:20:42 btw, the exact situation that spurned my SQL questions was me wondering how to get perec to return multidimensional arrays as part of the query results (arrays built from joins etc) 19:21:29 jgracin [~jgracin@vipnet4921.mobile.carnet.hr] has joined #lisp 19:22:45 so that I would get *one* query instead of multiple queries 19:22:48 cmsimon [~iamcms2@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 19:30:45 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-67-226.ipnets.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 19:38:34 -!- Consalvo [~user@67-23-7-228.static.slicehost.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:39:55 -!- maden [~maden@modemcable068.120-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:40:27 astalla [~astalla@93-36-230-44.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 19:40:37 -!- coyo [~unf@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:40:59 -!- PiRSquared17 [~chatzilla@ip72-192-23-71.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:41:29 hmm, before I go on a long CLHS trek: is compile-time guaranteed to occur? Ie. is it possible to have some code that gets executed, even though its (eval-when (:compile-toplevel) ...) bits don't get triggered? 19:42:12 coyo [~unf@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:11 -!- ve [~a@smith.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:43:57 sykopomp|jeejah [~sykopomp@ma50736d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:57 -!- sykopomp|jeejah [~sykopomp@ma50736d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:43:57 sykopomp|jeejah [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 19:44:45 ve [~a@smith.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 19:44:46 Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 19:45:13 -!- rtra [~rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:45:33 -!- sykopomp|jeejah [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:45:43 ikki [~ikki@189.139.94.2] has joined #lisp 19:45:52 sykopomp|jeejah [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 19:47:39 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-11-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:48:17 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 19:48:29 mathrick: tell me if you found out :) I wonder too 19:48:34 hello 19:48:46 mathrick: I think it might be so if you're using an interpreted lisp, but I'm not sure 19:48:49 hello ost 19:49:08 madnificent: that's not the kind of reply I hoped for :) 19:49:17 ichernetsky [~ichernets@93.85.47.201] has joined #lisp 19:49:31 mathrick: I could lie to you and tell you something else... 19:50:06 madnificent: oh, I wasn't saying you couldn't give me a worse answer. Just that it's not the best possible one either 19:50:21 I know :) 19:50:31 mathrick: but really, tell me if/when you find out! 19:50:37 will do! 19:50:40 or wait for beach` to respond :) 19:50:44 unless I forget of course 19:50:53 oh, right, beach is sure to know 19:51:25 -!- varjag_ [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has left #lisp 19:52:14 "Type definitions made with deftype or defstruct in the compilation environment must retain the same definition at run time. Classes defined by defclass in the compilation environment must be defined at run time to have the same superclasses and same metaclass." <-- wouldn't this, strictly speaking, prohibit classes from ever being redefined? 19:52:46 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:53:03 mathrick: in logic this is A->B not A<->B, so no 19:53:56 oh, and in case I'm asking the wrong question: what I really want is to adapt CL to batch compilation with minimal hassle. Is there some particularly tried/efficient/known approach towards taking a body of CL code and spewing out its translation into something else, like say other CL code which then gets transformed into Java? 19:54:27 meaning I need to keep a fairly accurate track of what has been compiled, and to have an idea of what is within a single compilation attempt 19:54:32 madnificent: not sure I see that 19:55:53 mathrick: if it is there at compiletime, then it must be there at runtime. However, it doesn't say anything about things that are not there at compiletime. It also doesn't say that the definition may not change, it only says it must have been defined in the same way. 19:56:43 madnificent: it means I can't change the superclass, whereas I thought changing superclass was allowed in redefinitions of a class 19:56:47 mathrick: afaict 19:57:06 I knew about metaclass 19:57:15 it says that it must have been defined that way, it doesn't say that it cannot change afterwards 19:58:06 -!- CrEddy_ [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:02:22 -!- redline6561 [~redline@adsl-190-191-78.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:03:00 smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:03:02 PiRSquared17 [~chatzilla@ip72-192-23-71.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:10 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-143-160.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:06:31 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-136-79.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:06:53 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 20:08:22 madnificent: I'm honestly not sure whether minimal compilation is required of all implementations, or of all that have a compiler 20:09:30 you're not required to have a compiler afaict, however it may well be that the code to be executed at compiletime must still be executed... 20:10:02 yeah, that's what I'm not sure about 20:11:44 -!- christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:11:53 -!- iPac [~bubble@p54AA650A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: adios] 20:16:49 christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 20:16:55 aw [~aw@p5DDAA8D9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:18:18 madnificent: I still don't know. It doesn't seem the standard says "you have to have implement minimal compilation" outright, but I can't say whether other things imply it sufficiently strongly 20:18:56 macros are the strongest case for minimal compilation being a requirement for all conforming implementations 20:20:06 mathrick: from glossary: minimal compilation n. actions the compiler must take at compile time. 20:20:12 yes 20:20:20 but it doesn't say whether compile time has to occur 20:20:24 which is the original question :) 20:20:34 I asked it right before you joined 20:21:19 compile and compile-file are in standard 20:22:03 -!- jgracin [~jgracin@vipnet4921.mobile.carnet.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:22:32 mark75 [~mark@host86-183-38-231.range86-183.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:27:23 -!- smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:27:39 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-3-246.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:27:47 -!- mikezor_ [~mikael@c-e3e970d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:28:02 mikezor [~mikael@c-e3e970d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:30:11 -!- PiRSquared17 [~chatzilla@ip72-192-23-71.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:33:20 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-91-47.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:33:57 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-119-74.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:34:27 enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-194-212-145.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:02 ost: yes. But it doesn't say whether it's guaranteed that all code will always go through compile-time, or if it's permissible to have some code proceed to run time without first being compiled (in the minimal compilation sense) 20:35:15 madnificent: I've read all the cleanup issues too, and I still can't decide 20:36:04 smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:37:45 madnificent: it seems to me that there isn't anything in the standard that truly requires compile time to occur 20:38:55 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-110-167.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:39:33 zan-xhipe [~user@41-133-107-78.dsl.mweb.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:40:45 there are evaluation semantics given for macro forms that don't require or mention compilation, so I'd say it's completely permissible to define (eval-when (:compile-toplevel)) to be NOP and stay conformant 20:41:26 mathrick: no it's not 20:41:54 oh right, COMPILE 20:42:23 amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 20:42:23 but there are situations in which you can *eval* such a form as a NOP and be conformant 20:42:59 mathrick: from my understanding compile time doesn't have to happen more than once, in your example of CL->Java, it would be when you generate Java code, not anymore 20:43:15 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 20:43:44 p_l: well, yes, except that I want to generate the CL itself too, which is the issue 20:43:46 otoh, runtime means (IMHO) not in EVAL nor COMPILE 20:43:59 p_l: eval totally is runtime 20:44:36 Edward_ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-17-19.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:45:24 mathrick: IMHO when you execute EVAL or COMPILE at runtime, the *contents* of it are executed in different environment than runtime 20:45:52 this makes redefinition legal, btw 20:46:03 -!- aw [~aw@p5DDAA8D9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3-dev] 20:46:34 -!- HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:46:44 aw [~aw@p5DDAA8D9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:46:44 -!- rdd [~user@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:46:48 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.29.84] has joined #lisp 20:47:14 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.29.84] has quit [Client Quit] 20:47:17 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.29.84] has joined #lisp 20:47:19 p_l: the environment might be null, but it's still runtime 20:49:01 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:49:50 italic [~italic@cpe-74-77-205-104.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:51:19 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-110-167.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:54:27 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 20:54:28 mathrick: EVAL only seems to have guarantees regarding dynamic and lexical environments, not about state in regards to eval-when 20:57:33 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-85-232.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:58:23 -!- md1 [~user@chello089173014058.chello.sk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:58:45 Xach: I should be able to read it still, if you have specific questions. 21:00:44 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.29.84] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:01:00 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.29.84] has joined #lisp 21:01:39 Lectus [~Frederico@189.105.26.250] has joined #lisp 21:01:50 -!- zan-xhipe [~user@41-133-107-78.dsl.mweb.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:02:02 what's the best library to use for emitting XML? 21:02:10 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-85-232.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:02:38 mathrick: cxml! 21:02:54 that was one of the likely candidates! 21:03:02 but I need a readable literal syntax too 21:03:26 -!- joga [joga@rikki.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:03:27 #.(cxml:parse ...)? 21:04:03 ... 21:04:19 if I had that XML, I wouldn't need to generate it, really 21:04:45 CL-WHO would be good, but I don't think it supports namespaces 21:04:48 You can also use its support for xmls-like inputs, but, iiuc, that's a nice way to generate non-conforming XML. 21:04:53 pavelludiq_ [~quassel@87.246.29.84] has joined #lisp 21:05:55 pkhuong: hmm, that might be still the best option though 21:07:15 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@adsl-209-30-48-79.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 21:07:59 Nshag [~none@AClermont-Ferrand-551-1-7-10.w92-133.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:09:28 Zan-Xhipe [~User@41-133-107-78.dsl.mweb.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:10:28 maden [~maden@dsl-147-102.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 21:11:50 -!- loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:12:36 mathrick: why literal syntax? 21:12:47 also, you could reuse yaclml 21:13:02 (it has that #'deftag system( 21:13:04 )) 21:15:05 p_l: because I'll be doing a lot of by-hand input at first 21:15:47 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 21:17:07 I think I'd second pkhuong then 21:21:11 -!- Demosthenex [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:26:33 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-67-226.ipnets.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:27:20 joelr [~joelr@80.Red-79-153-168.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:57 good evening! is there a way to convert :fooBar to :|fooBar| without going through symbol-name? in other words, preserving the case 21:28:07 -!- italic [~italic@cpe-74-77-205-104.buffalo.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 21:28:59 -!- sykopomp|jeejah [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:29:29 joelr: erm, :fooBar would be already upcased, unless you are trying to modify the behaviour of reader? 21:29:41 joga [joga@rikki.fi] has joined #lisp 21:29:57 p_l: i can modify the behavior of the reader 21:30:15 clhs readtable-case 21:30:16 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_rdtabl.htm 21:30:31 p_l: i will anyway since i want [foo bar] to become to [bar foo] 21:31:18 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-3-246.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:31:21 ah yes, readtable-case. The second example is lost on me, though 21:31:41 p_l: you don't program on the mac then :D 21:31:48 p_l: that's objc syntax 21:31:48 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:32:15 joelr: that I get, I don't get why you need to do *that* operation :) 21:32:24 pavelludiq__ [~quassel@87.246.29.84] has joined #lisp 21:32:27 pkhuong: does it implement wraparound when probing the hash table? i can't see how it does, if it does. 21:32:44 and while I'm sworn enemy of Macs, I do have contact with objc :D 21:32:51 p_l: i want to use the objc syntax in lisp 21:32:57 p_l: for messages anyway 21:33:20 joelr: implementing a message-based object system? 21:33:51 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.29.84] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:33:56 -!- pavelludiq_ [~quassel@87.246.29.84] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:34:30 p_l: no, just a wrapper around an objc bridge that uses the verbose 'invoke' for messaging. 21:34:46 p_l: (invoke (invoke (invoke ...))) it adds up 21:35:19 -!- pavelludiq__ [~quassel@87.246.29.84] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:35:24 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181217253.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:35:29 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.29.84] has joined #lisp 21:37:01 http://trac.clozure.com/ccl/wiki/CocoaBridge <--- I recommend looking at how CCL implements its bindings 21:39:02 p_l: ja! this is what i'm trying to avoid, though: drawAtPoint:fromRect:operation:fraction: 21:39:33 also, the code behind the macrocharacters also locally binds *readtable-case* 21:39:52 p_l: i'd rather have a compile-time macro that transforms [obj drawAtPoint p :fromRect r :operation o :fraction f] into that for me 21:40:23 joelr: CCL used to have different bindings that were something like (draw-at-point x :from-rect y :operation z :fraction q) 21:40:38 sellout: where are they now? 21:40:55 joelr: what about reusing various compose/curry macros that float around? 21:41:04 joelr: I'm not sure  it's possible they still work. 21:41:51 p_l: not sure. i really like the objc message syntax. 21:41:55 sellout: ok 21:41:56 joelr: There was also (send x :drawAtPoint y ...) I think. I don't remember which changes were made when. But I definitely prefer the current way. 21:42:20 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.29.84] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:42:55 parolang [~user@ppp-69-221-9-72.dsl.toldoh.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 21:43:02 TeMPOraL [~user@188.147.176.142.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:45:18 p_l: I think I might add a CL-WHOish syntax support to it, just with a notation added for namespaces 21:45:54 given my specific needs, it's probably okay to just hijack packages and require all of them to be defined beforehand 21:49:29 the XMLS syntax is bleh for manual input with all the ""s 21:51:04 -!- joelr [~joelr@80.Red-79-153-168.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: joelr] 21:51:37 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 21:54:58 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 21:57:11 Function to convert base 10 integer to base 2? 21:57:54 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 21:57:56 gospch [~gospch@unaffiliated/gospch] has joined #lisp 21:58:05 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:58:30 Guthur: format 21:58:52 ah, never thought of format, cheers pjb` 21:58:53 prin1-to-string works too, with the right dynamic binding. 21:58:57 write would do too. 21:59:31 The lowest level would probably be WRITE. 21:59:40 davazp [~user@64.Red-79-157-94.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:00:30 Awesome, print will do nicely, cheers pjb` 22:00:49 print/write 22:02:58 -!- HG` [~HG@xdslfa076.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:04:37 Xach: wrap-around how? For the linear probing? 22:05:34 -!- davazp [~user@64.Red-79-157-94.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:06:05 (write integer :base 2)? 22:07:12 -!- parolang [~user@ppp-69-221-9-72.dsl.toldoh.ameritech.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:07:42 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 22:09:43 yes. 22:12:43 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 22:16:49 -!- myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:19:09 -!- Nshag [~none@AClermont-Ferrand-551-1-7-10.w92-133.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 22:19:14 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.18.80.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:19:38 Xach: right. That's badly specified in djb's .txt! 22:19:51 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:21:17 myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 22:21:58 dysinger [~dysinger@cpe-98-150-133-209.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:24:38 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:27:26 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:38 mathrick: do you have a project page for your current work? or isn't it open source? 22:29:16 madnificent: not yet, I'm still basically playing with android and trying to invent a sane way of abstracting that all away 22:29:21 mathrick: I realize my or doesn't include all possible cases, I'm not _that_ interested in other cases :) 22:29:27 mathrick: !!!!!!! 22:29:48 mathrick: I wants! If you have _anything_ I'd be willing to try it out to dev on my hero :) 22:30:20 I will probably make it open source, it's not like there's all that much competition dying to snatch away my killer idea of crosswords dictionary in lisp :) 22:30:34 -!- ska` [~user@124.157.137.205] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:30:37 so there's no point in not open-sourcing the framework if I ever get to make any 22:30:51 hehe 22:31:02 I will probably open-source the apps themselves too, building them is gonna be a deterrent enough :) 22:31:02 *madnificent* does a little happy dance 22:31:15 how are you going to deploy it to the android? via sbcl based image or ... ? 22:31:22 holycow: ecl 22:31:27 aha, neat 22:31:40 SBCL would need to work cleanly on ARM first, which I think is unfinished 22:31:45 mathrick: how are you going to access the services android provides from C? 22:31:48 and anyway, would be unnecessarily huge 22:32:03 madnificent: that's why I need the Lisp -> Java bridge 22:32:05 *nod* 22:32:05 (also: using ECL would make it fast and thus beat clojure) 22:32:08 that really cool 22:32:20 I'm waiting on Linj to be opensourced, hopefully should happen soon 22:32:27 mathrick: you could look at what ABCL did, maybe you can borow some of their ideas wrt notation 22:33:01 madnificent: I already have Linj for that, but what I need is really a notation from which the android-specific parts can be inferred with minimal hassle 22:33:13 are you at all familiar with Android's development model? 22:33:17 mathrick: could you elaborate? 22:33:27 it doesn't really have processes in the traditional sense 22:33:29 only vaguely, sorry 22:33:40 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:33:43 I did read some things about it, but not when I was particularly concentrated 22:33:46 it does have processes, many of them, but that's not the basic unit of what happens on the device 22:33:58 android is really a cloud of communicating "activities" 22:34:05 where each activity is a Java class 22:34:06 yeah 22:34:22 lifecycle, requests, communication, all happens between activities, not processes 22:34:42 ahm actually, wouldn't it be more efficient if I searched for a screencast about the basics again and then come back to you... then you only need to explain the particular connection to lisp 22:34:52 mathrick: Linj is opensourced already 22:34:58 p_l: !!! 22:34:59 when? 22:35:03 -!- dysinger [~dysinger@cpe-98-150-133-209.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dysinger] 22:35:08 mathrick: .... 2004, apparently 22:35:15 oh, then no 22:35:23 I spoke with the author yesterday 22:35:28 don't worry, till few weeks ago, I didn't know about that one... 22:35:36 what you can get is archived versions of compiled FASLs 22:35:40 PiRSquared17 [~chatzilla@ip72-192-23-71.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:35:42 ...for SBCL 0.8.6 22:35:51 but not source 22:35:54 mathrick: then why I do have an archive of *.lisp files? 22:36:02 I dunno, how did you get it? 22:36:20 asdf-install,maybe? 22:36:27 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp85-141-164-164.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:37:25 Apr, 9, 2004 - NOTE: I (Karol Skocik) am just hosting this code since I was using Linj some ago, and Linj's presence in the net somehow disappeared. Don't contact me with requests about Linj, I am not in a position to help you. 22:37:39 that's from README 22:37:43 humm 22:38:28 _6502_ [~andrea@dynamic-adsl-94-36-224-226.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 22:38:41 Xach: I'll write djb, to suggest he clarify the spec. 22:39:02 p_l: what license does it have? 22:39:16 -!- _6502_ [~andrea@dynamic-adsl-94-36-224-226.clienti.tiscali.it] has left #lisp 22:39:37 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 22:44:35 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:46:15 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:47:15 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:47:47 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 22:48:26 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-117-193.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:48:45 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:48:52 hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-117-193.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 22:49:47 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-240-89.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 22:52:00 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 22:52:39 antoni [~user@13.pool85-53-2.dynamic.orange.es] has joined #lisp 22:53:02 s 22:53:07 pkhuong: thanks for checking. i am making a writer, so i had to read cdb_make.c pretty closely. 22:53:34 pkhuong: it's sort-of implied by not stopping until you hit an empty slot. 22:57:33 -!- myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:58:19 -!- astalla [~astalla@93-36-230-44.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 23:03:01 -!- blbrown [~Berlin@75.139.142.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:03:15 myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 23:07:07 logically, the "next higher slot" wouldn't look at the lowest slot ;) But I did find it surprising, since that's noy how linear probing usually works. 23:08:32 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:10:23 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 23:10:26 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.94.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:11:59 -!- smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:12:12 etate [~meta@mon69-4-82-228-201-242.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 23:12:19 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755ed6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:15:13 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:17:59 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:18:06 blbrown [~Berlin@75.139.142.224] has joined #lisp 23:19:03 -!- lambda_nil [~jhuelga@142.Red-80-33-85.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:22:58 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 23:25:55 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has quit [Quit: bye] 23:32:10 -!- PiRSquared17 [~chatzilla@ip72-192-23-71.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:32:45 PiRSquared17 [~chatzilla@ip72-192-23-71.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:34:45 does loop have any support for nested loops? 23:35:02 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:36:07 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:37:27 -!- coyo [~unf@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: ACTION closes window in a panic] 23:37:30 Zan-Xhipe: certainly 23:38:16 Guthur: what? I did a quick search and couldnt find anything 23:38:21 -!- pix2 [~pixel@p4FC57F2C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:38:53 -!- benny [~benny@i577A839C.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:40:41 Zan-Xhipe, Try it and see. 23:40:51 I have used nest loops many times 23:41:00 nested* 23:43:53 i have tried it, i just couldn't find a easy way without using two loop statements 23:44:18 and it seemed t me that there should be away built into loop 23:44:35 as it seems to be used quite often 23:44:45 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-136-79.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:45:16 Oh right, well there is many things you can do with a loop 23:45:27 Its hard to say without some context 23:45:55 You can have more than one for .... 23:46:13 But that's probably not going to do it either 23:46:34 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 23:47:15 You may just have to use a nested loop, or if you have a repeatable pattern then turn to macros 23:47:46 yeah i probably will have to make it a macro 23:47:54 -!- sytse [sytse@speedy.student.ipv6.utwente.nl] has quit [Quit: goodbye, and thx for all the fish] 23:48:10 just thouhgt it might already have been inclluded in loop and i hadn't found it yet 23:48:23 fiveop [~fiveop@64.235.198.242] has joined #lisp 23:48:28 If you can give some details some one might have a clever loop trick to do it 23:49:10 just simply going through the elements of a 2d array 23:49:27 or hash table 23:50:20 2d hash table 23:51:17 Well if it is a matrix like structure you could probably map a linear index to the array 23:51:34 similar to how C multi dimensional arrays work 23:51:51 though in reverse 23:53:19 smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:53:28 sytse [sytse@speedy.student.ipv6.utwente.nl] has joined #lisp 23:55:57 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:57:47 I think ill probably just make a macro for it, though it sems a shame it isn't in loop (everything else seems to be) 23:57:53 *seems 23:59:06 -!- Edward_ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-17-19.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 23:59:39 -!- nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]