00:00:56 woo hoo keene just got here 00:01:30 Paraselene_ [~Not@79-67-148-135.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 00:02:17 -!- Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Planned down time ^^] 00:02:57 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:03:05 -!- sugarshark [~ole@p4FDA9768.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:03:14 -!- bizarrefish [~lee@host86-146-52-27.range86-146.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:03:31 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 00:04:10 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 00:04:23 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:04:35 -!- Paraselene [~Not@79-67-148-135.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:04:43 xinming [~hyy@125.109.245.33] has joined #lisp 00:05:26 bizarrefish [~lee@host86-146-52-27.range86-146.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 00:11:37 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 00:12:11 -!- CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:12:12 joshuavera [~joshuaver@c-67-160-85-249.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:28 -!- joshuavera [~joshuaver@c-67-160-85-249.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:12:59 Blkt` [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-235-151.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 00:13:29 sykopomp|jeejah` [~sykopomp@m820736d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 00:14:35 -!- sykopomp|jeejah [~sykopomp@border.pozitronic.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:15:47 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:16:11 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-78-13-255-27.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:18:24 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-5-214.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 00:21:06 dnolen_ [~dnolen@pool-70-19-75-48.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:21:35 -!- smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:21:45 -!- dnolen_ [~dnolen@pool-70-19-75-48.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:21:54 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.18.80.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:21:58 -!- bucho [~mmm@vz144.citysearch.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:22:37 dnolen_ [~dnolen@pool-70-19-75-48.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:22:54 -!- dnolen_ [~dnolen@pool-70-19-75-48.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:24:27 sykopomp|jeejah [~sykopomp@c-66-41-249-30.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:25:01 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:25:56 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.72.61] has joined #lisp 00:26:43 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:29:06 -!- sykopomp|jeejah` [~sykopomp@m820736d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:31:46 -!- mpr312 [~chatzilla@pool-74-101-147-57.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:33:02 -!- Soulman [~knute@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:36:39 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 00:36:59 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 00:38:49 hi guys.. can you help me create a macro that say, given an argument 4, expands to (+ (+ (+ 0 1) 1) 1). i'm working on a recursive macro and i'm not sure how to do it.. 00:39:03 mpr312 [~chatzilla@pool-74-101-147-57.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:39:24 sorry, that would've been for argument 3.. 00:39:29 jan247: have it call a recursive function instead 00:40:03 i don't want it evaluated yet though.. 00:40:22 i want to be able to see the macro expansion.. it's essential 00:40:28 jan247: the function should return the expansion, not the evaluation 00:41:14 jan247: if you really want a recursive macro, just have it expand to an invocation of itself 00:42:06 CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 00:42:14 hmm.. why would it be better to do it as a function though? 00:43:34 -!- mpr312 [~chatzilla@pool-74-101-147-57.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:44:19 jan247: I would ask why it's better to do it as a macro. What are you trying to do? 00:46:08 i'm trying to do some samples on genetic programming actually, and trying to learn lisp at the same time.. so, i need to be able to generate some random function such as (+ (* 1 x) (- y (/ 4 2))) 00:46:22 it is essential i be able to display the function though.. 00:46:48 i was under the impression that macros are the way to go with this.. 00:48:34 here's it right now: http://paste.lisp.org/+24IF 00:50:24 -!- slyrus [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:50:49 jan247: I don't know much about genetic programming and I'm only an amateur lisper. I'm a bit confused though, do you want a macro that prints it's expansion and then calls that expansion? 00:52:48 nunb [~nundan@59.178.216.155] has joined #lisp 00:53:02 when i do a macro-expand, i should be able to see the program generated.. the gist is that i should be able to create some expression of the form T where T may be a variable (x or y), a constant (integer between 1 to 10) or an expression such as (+ T T) or (- T T), etc... 00:54:18 tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:54:36 Blkt`` [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-234-106.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 00:54:39 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.217.153] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 00:54:42 -!- tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:54:50 jan247: I'm having a little trouble understanding what you're going for. That said, you may find this link interesting: http://www.jakevoytko.com/blog/2008/12/04/prototyping-genetic-algorithms-in-lisp/ 00:55:06 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:55:13 hehe, thanks anyway redline6561 00:55:52 jan247: From what you've said, I'm not sure why you'd need macros. They may just be complicating your program. Hopefully smarter and more experienced lispers/programmers than myself can help further if you need it. :) 00:56:13 hm, i think so too. maybe i'm misusing macros. but thanks again! :) 00:58:12 -!- Blkt` [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-235-151.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:58:52 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755bc2.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:03:13 jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has joined #lisp 01:03:36 enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-194-215-55.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:05:14 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:05:32 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:07:10 -!- nunb [~nundan@59.178.216.155] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:08:11 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 01:10:22 jan247: I think you should define mk-rnd-tree as a function 01:10:48 with the code exactly like the macros' code 01:11:51 jan247: the easy way out is to use EVAL. The other way is to compile to closures. 01:13:56 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-205-190.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:14:16 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@118.101.6.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:14:55 tcr [~tcr@124.13.126.117] has joined #lisp 01:16:40 jan247: have you looked at Koza's Genetic Programming book? 01:16:57 that's where i learned lisp and genetic programming. i think you'd like it. 01:17:10 can anyone tell me if the walk-directory function of cl-fad passes only the filename to fn or the full path? 01:17:39 aw [~aw@p5DDA9139.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:17:43 -!- jleija [~jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net] has quit [Quit: have a good night everyone] 01:18:33 -!- Danmaku [dmk@83.231.85.245] has quit [] 01:18:38 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 01:19:10 Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:24:26 -!- aw [~aw@p5DDA9139.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3-dev] 01:26:46 -!- gugamilare [~kvirc@200-207-40-188.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Quit: KVIrc Insomnia 4.0.0, revision: 3900, sources date: 20100125, built on: 2010-02-15 08:38:32 UTC http://www.kvirc.net/] 01:27:22 -!- myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:29:10 -!- lemonodor [~lemonodor@144.198.182.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:30:38 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483DF88.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:31:09 pkhuong, gugamilare. thanks for the tip :) 01:31:32 lemondor: i'll take a look at it. thanks! 01:31:32 myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 01:31:46 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:32:58 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:36:18 wakeup^: Just call it with something like (lambda (x) (format t "~S~%" x)) and see what it does? 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02:16:31 M-x slime-list-connections 02:16:36 d on the desired 02:16:36 thanks 02:16:44 -!- curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:17:04 also M-x slime-cycle-connections 02:17:27 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.194] has joined #lisp 02:18:46 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:22:22 -!- konr [~user@201.82.133.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:24:45 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 02:24:46 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-71-232-16-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 02:24:48 -!- plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-121-23.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:25:41 -!- tcr [~tcr@124.13.126.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:26:49 -!- felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has quit [Quit: felipe] 02:26:50 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:29:02 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0063-25-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 02:29:41 -!- maden [~maden@dsl-157-148.aei.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:31:20 maden [~maden@dsl-157-148.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 02:31:35 tcr [~tcr@124.13.126.117] has joined #lisp 02:32:13 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-163-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 02:33:54 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 02:34:20 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 02:34:26 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 02:34:29 -!- Blkt``` [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-238-32.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: ERROR: do not makunbound t please!] 02:34:49 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:36:12 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:37:15 -!- ohnoyoudidint [~boxxy@c-24-91-141-27.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 02:39:08 shofetim [~user@97-121-228-198.blng.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:40:33 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 02:40:55 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-194-215-55.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: dinner] 02:42:40 -!- peddie_ [~peddie@adsl-76-254-70-196.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:44:28 peddie [~peddie@adsl-76-254-70-196.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:46:49 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:49:10 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 02:54:33 -!- dys [~andreas@krlh-5f7364d2.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:54:48 dys [~andreas@krlh-5f725fb4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 02:55:22 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-uuyoydyppzcrgiig] has joined #lisp 02:56:20 seangrove [~user@180.64.8.254] has joined #lisp 02:56:25 -!- knight_ [~knight@adsl-71-142-70-250.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:58:00 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 03:05:26 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 03:08:13 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-205-190.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:09:15 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:09:46 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 03:11:42 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 03:13:44 phob [~phobbs@2001:1878:301:d00:222:19ff:fe07:ec66] has joined #lisp 03:13:47 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:13:59 Hi 03:14:09 If I have a number that takes any number of arguments 03:14:14 how can I recurse? 03:14:27 a number? 03:15:27 like (defun test (&rest args) (message (first args)) (test (rest args))) 03:15:32 but that doesn't work 03:15:44 clhs apply 03:15:45 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_apply.htm 03:16:22 thanks 03:17:35 though using recursion in things like your example doesn't make much sense 03:17:41 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:18:02 the better way would be something like (map nil #'message args) 03:19:13 -!- redline6561 [~redline@adsl-145-180-78.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:23:01 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:25:18 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:27:28 Pip [~pip@unaffiliated/pip] has joined #lisp 03:28:11 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:28:24 quodlibetor [~user@ool-18baa8f1.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:30:48 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-168-152-229.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:36:46 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:37:21 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 03:37:37 -!- xinming [~hyy@125.109.245.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:38:07 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 03:41:55 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:42:52 Krystof [~csr21@84.51.132.95] has joined #lisp 03:44:30 easyE: you can resignal out of a handler-bind, but be assured that a handler-bind is executed in the dynamic environment of the signaller except interwined handlers (between handler-bind and the signal) are deactivated. I was screwed by that one recently :-) 03:49:33 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84.51.132.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 03:49:51 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 03:51:52 Krystof [~csr21@84.51.132.95] has joined #lisp 03:53:18 -!- Guthur [~michael@host213-122-220-102.range213-122.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:56:46 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84.51.132.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:57:44 Krystof [~csr21@84.51.132.95] has joined #lisp 03:59:27 -!- tcr [~tcr@124.13.126.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:00:20 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 04:00:42 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 04:06:37 gospch [~gospch@unaffiliated/gospch] has joined #lisp 04:07:11 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84.51.132.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:07:48 Krystof [~csr21@84.51.132.95] has joined #lisp 04:10:26 -!- shofetim [~user@97-121-228-198.blng.qwest.net] has left #lisp 04:11:22 -!- gospch [~gospch@unaffiliated/gospch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:11:39 -!- Pip [~pip@unaffiliated/pip] has left #lisp 04:11:47 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.77.70.195] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:12:10 Intensity [u7ybSCP2UB@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 04:12:14 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 04:12:26 gospch [~gorspch@unaffiliated/gospch] has joined #lisp 04:14:44 -!- pickles [~paul@d47-69-2-54.col.wideopenwest.com] has left #lisp 04:15:22 hohoho [~hohoho@pa3a20d.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:16:40 -!- gospch [~gorspch@unaffiliated/gospch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:16:45 tcr [~tcr@115.132.75.126] has joined #lisp 04:16:57 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:17:17 Is there a way to canonicalize a namestring to denote a directory? I'd have thought ensure-directory-exists would do that, but it doesn't. 04:17:53 cl-fad:pathname-as-directory 04:18:19 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:18:43 oh well 04:18:43 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-17-123.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:19:14 -!- phob [~phobbs@2001:1878:301:d00:222:19ff:fe07:ec66] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:20:00 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-17-123.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 04:22:21 gospch [~gorspch@unaffiliated/gospch] has joined #lisp 04:23:58 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 04:26:50 -!- gospch [~gorspch@unaffiliated/gospch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:26:51 -!- goosemo [~goosemo@d60-65-112-181.col.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:29:01 gospch [~gorspch@unaffiliated/gospch] has joined #lisp 04:31:40 Makoryu 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04:46:57 gospch [~gorspch@unaffiliated/gospch] has joined #lisp 04:48:07 pnq [~gaiug@AC833578.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 04:48:34 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:51:40 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 04:54:29 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 04:55:03 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:55:11 stassats: what about the redirect-trace work, you didn't commit that yet, did you? 04:55:34 no, haven't touched it since then 04:59:52 Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-198-114.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:00:44 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has joined #lisp 05:02:40 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:04:35 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 05:06:13 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has 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[~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 05:20:09 -!- Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@d207-6-77-199.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:20:30 felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has joined #lisp 05:22:24 Good morning! 05:25:14 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:25:28 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:26:56 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 05:27:23 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:30:19 Rigdern [~Rigdern@foxy-60.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 05:31:11 -!- symbole [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:31:13 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:33:31 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 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has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:06:08 nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has joined #lisp 06:07:52 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 06:14:24 xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-181-25.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 06:14:56 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:24:25 TeMPOraL [~user@wifi-wpa.agh.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 06:28:23 -!- pnq [~gaiug@AC833578.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.5.2/20090729225027]] 06:28:59 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 06:30:14 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-11-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:30:53 -!- laevus [~marc@196-210-171-56-wrbs-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Quit: have to pay the bills] 06:33:47 ASau` [~user@77.246.231.18] has joined #lisp 06:36:02 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:39:58 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 06:40:18 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.237] has joined #lisp 06:41:59 amaron_ [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 06:42:32 nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 06:49:30 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 06:51:08 -!- quodlibetor [~user@ool-18baa8f1.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:52:34 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0063-25-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:53:06 -!- seangrove [~user@180.64.8.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:54:27 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:54:45 -!- iPac [~bubble@p54AA62C8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:55:28 hello :) 06:55:33 hey fe[nl]ix 06:56:31 hej beach 06:59:26 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 06:59:26 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:59:41 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:00:45 -!- amaron_ [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:03:44 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:03:46 -!- lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-75-83-150-91.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: lemonodor] 07:04:21 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:06:24 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:06:52 jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 07:07:29 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:09:40 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:09:43 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:09:46 -!- Arelius [~d0507552@gateway/web/freenode/x-rnnxlkfluqosxtkq] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:13:24 levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 07:17:33 Soulman [~knute@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 07:30:09 -!- nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has quit [Quit: .] 07:32:18 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 07:33:44 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 07:33:59 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 07:34:53 Is there to force swank to override an error like this "Error: Address already in use (error #98) during socket creation or nameserver operation in bind" 07:34:54 ? 07:36:09 I know for sure the address was used by previous swank from me. 07:36:20 don't use a port that is in use? 07:36:50 I have been chaning port number from 4001 -> 4003 -> to -> 4005 -> 4007. 07:37:00 I want to end this meanless change. 07:37:28 why are you restarting the swank so frequently? 07:37:45 -!- Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Absquatulandus sum] 07:37:58 jdz: because my ssh connection dies overnight. 07:38:12 so every morning I am having this socket error. 07:38:27 is the swank server still running, then? 07:38:56 m4dnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 07:39:11 jdz: seems so and I can still connect to it. 07:39:59 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:40:30 let me try killing it and start again. 07:41:19 pjb [~t@81.202.18.80.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 07:41:49 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 07:44:50 abeaumont [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 07:44:56 That worked. 07:46:19 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:46:23 When I looked at the screen session this morning, it said segment fault but seems the process is still running. 07:47:53 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.237] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:52:11 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 07:59:59 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:00:03 -!- toxygen [toxygen@stip-static-98.213-81-186.telecom.sk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:02:59 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.18.242] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:03:48 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 08:04:04 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.18.242] has joined #lisp 08:04:51 Joreji [~thomas@86-084.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 08:05:44 -!- nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage - to move in the opposite direction." -- attributed to Albert Einstein] 08:15:46 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:17:10 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84.51.132.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:17:32 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:18:59 lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-75-83-150-91.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:21:33 -!- nunb [~nundan@59.178.200.70] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 08:21:36 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-128-62.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:22:07 nunb [~nundan@59.178.205.230] has joined #lisp 08:36:00 -!- maden [~maden@dsl-157-148.aei.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:36:23 -!- m4dnificent is now known as madnificent 08:37:13 dalkvist [~cairdazar@hd5e24dca.gavlegardarna.gavle.to] has joined #lisp 08:39:07 -!- TeMPOraL [~user@wifi-wpa.agh.edu.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:40:11 -!- dalkvist [~cairdazar@hd5e24dca.gavlegardarna.gavle.to] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:42:04 joy, I might be able to do my thesis in lisp 08:42:39 what thesis? 08:42:49 tcr: that is yet to be decided (within the next two weeks) 08:43:02 I mean what kind, bachelor / master / phd? 08:43:05 master 08:43:14 pavelludiq [~c28d2f82@gateway/web/freenode/x-fubdswhddebhpnqb] has joined #lisp 08:47:30 -!- tcr [~tcr@115.132.75.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:53:01 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:54:52 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.72.61] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:57:37 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.22] has joined #lisp 09:03:26 freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181217253.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 09:08:29 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-156-147-36.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: night] 09:08:48 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754d97.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:11:17 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 09:14:54 tcr [~tcr@115.132.75.126] has joined #lisp 09:15:11 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-41-204.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 09:15:38 Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 09:16:46 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-17-123.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:17:07 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:17:16 -!- nunb [~nundan@59.178.205.230] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:23:42 nunb [~nundan@59.178.205.230] has joined #lisp 09:25:23 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 09:26:41 -!- xan_ [~xan@83.34.169.207] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:27:31 xan_ [~xan@83.34.169.207] has joined #lisp 09:29:45 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:33:47 Guthur [~michael@213.122.220.102] has joined #lisp 09:35:40 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 09:41:17 plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-121-23.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 09:42:43 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:43:49 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 09:48:35 Yuuhi [benni@p54839C46.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:50:26 -!- debiandebian [~chatzilla@ntszok022039.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:51:54 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:54:13 -!- pavelludiq [~c28d2f82@gateway/web/freenode/x-fubdswhddebhpnqb] has quit [] 09:54:53 ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 09:56:18 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 10:05:10 nyef, therep 10:08:15 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:08:37 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 10:10:55 wedgeV [~wedge@cpe90-146-32-187.liwest.at] has joined #lisp 10:16:46 maden [~maden@dsl-157-148.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 10:18:54 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 10:19:46 t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B200210.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:21:38 myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 10:27:14 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:30:01 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:30:21 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:41:52 dabd [~dabd@a85-139-104-126.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 10:43:05 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 10:45:21 is trivial-gray-streams alive ? i have a hard time finding it online 10:46:30 billitch: http://www.cliki.net/trivial-gray-streams has a link to it 10:46:32 billitch: There's not much about it to be alive 10:47:00 yes but link points to broken anchor in cl+ssl 10:47:47 it seems to asdf-install though, thanks 10:48:19 cvs -d :pserver:anonymous:anonymous@common-lisp.net:/project/cl-plus-ssl/cvsroot co trivial-gray-streams 10:48:47 billitch: the cliki link works for me. 10:49:28 Reasonably alive: Patches for features occasionally coming in, still no test suite anywhere to be seen. 10:49:59 Xach: yes but the page makes no reference to trivial-gray-streams 10:50:13 i was looking for some online api documentation or such 10:50:47 but reading source is fine =) 10:53:45 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:54:07 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 10:57:47 nixie [~nixie@121.227.133.170] has joined #lisp 10:58:51 -!- hlavaty [~user@77-22-102-139-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:01:26 roffe [~roffe@90.149.29.76] has joined #lisp 11:02:48 hej stassats 11:02:57 hi tcr 11:03:13 I'm working on that define-slime-contrib stuff I think we once briefly talked about 11:03:46 Do you remember how we came to discussing it? E.g. did you want anything where I responded? 11:03:48 i vaguely recollect something 11:04:51 i don't remember any details 11:06:03 debiandebian [~chatzilla@ntszok022039.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:06:44 hlavaty [~user@77-22-102-139-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 11:07:59 Madsy [~madman@fu/coder/madsy] has joined #lisp 11:10:09 tcr pasted "define-slime-contrib" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99163 11:11:01 stassats: See that for an example. Now look into slime-c-p-c.el; we need some convenient way to unroll changed on unload. As I'm adapting all the contribs right now, I don't have spare cycles to think how to best achieve that. 11:13:48 is anyone using unloading at all? 11:13:51 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-wjladscbdcctpcqx] has joined #lisp 11:14:33 Well it would be nice if you could try contribs that way 11:14:42 also get a list of contribs etc 11:15:25 stassats: the other day I had to restart emacs to get rid of slime-indentation. 11:16:31 i don't see an easy way right away 11:17:01 maybe later, i got sucked into Project Euler again 11:20:13 -!- roffe [~roffe@90.149.29.76] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:21:09 roffe [~roffe@19-58-9.connect.netcom.no] has joined #lisp 11:24:49 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:24:59 Danmaku [dmk@83.231.91.242] has joined #lisp 11:26:15 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 11:26:43 -!- lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-75-83-150-91.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: lemonodor] 11:27:07 -!- xan_ [~xan@83.34.169.207] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:27:12 xan_ [~xan@83.34.169.207] has joined #lisp 11:31:59 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:32:15 -!- Madsy [~madman@fu/coder/madsy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:32:20 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 11:34:37 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 11:36:03 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 11:36:44 -!- debiandebian [~chatzilla@ntszok022039.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:42:44 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 11:50:10 aw [~aw@p5DDA93A4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:52:43 -!- roffe [~roffe@19-58-9.connect.netcom.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:53:42 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:55:10 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 11:59:31 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 11:59:36 -!- nixie [~nixie@121.227.133.170] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:00:16 -!- dabd [~dabd@a85-139-104-126.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 12:00:20 nixie [~nixie@121.227.133.170] has joined #lisp 12:00:37 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:00:45 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:00:55 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:01:13 -!- nixie [~nixie@121.227.133.170] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:01:18 nixie [~nixie@121.227.133.170] has joined #lisp 12:01:56 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-198-114.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:03:05 funny, disassemble shows more space with (SPACE 3) than with (SPACE 0) in SBCL 12:04:35 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:05:06 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:05:45 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:08:39 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:09:21 -!- nixie [~nixie@121.227.133.170] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:09:40 nixie [~nixie@121.227.133.170] has joined #lisp 12:09:51 -!- nixie [~nixie@121.227.133.170] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:09:55 nixie [~nixie@121.227.133.170] has joined #lisp 12:11:06 some time for slime hacking? 12:11:39 that depends 12:12:09 I'd like to have a defcustom which controls whether ,load etc. collect notes or not 12:13:24 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:13:27 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@219-89-90-242.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 12:13:43 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-5-214.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:13:46 ,load meaning ,load-system ? 12:14:21 yes 12:14:24 -!- nixie [~nixie@121.227.133.170] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:14:26 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-gogtufeiurzqosfu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:14:37 nixie [~nixie@121.227.133.170] has joined #lisp 12:14:39 i did this some time before, but i guess it's lost 12:14:43 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has quit [Quit: -arividerchi] 12:14:58 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 12:15:30 -!- nixie [~nixie@121.227.133.170] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:15:37 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@76.194.215.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:15:50 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:16:15 nixie [~nixie@121.227.133.170] has joined #lisp 12:17:47 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-128-62.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:18:25 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-wqvwbjqsixwmuerk] has joined #lisp 12:19:12 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 12:19:33 roffe [~roffe@90.149.29.76] has joined #lisp 12:22:03 maybe you've saved in a file? 12:22:45 carlocci [~nes@93.37.201.88] has joined #lisp 12:22:55 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:22:56 i already redone it, and in an easier way 12:26:35 -!- WOG [~OsamaBinW@24-177-10-101.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Quit: WAAAAAAAAGH!!] 12:28:27 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-78-34-205-38.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:31:31 redline6561 [~redline@adsl-145-180-78.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 12:36:13 tcr: ok, committed 12:36:53 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0063-25-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 12:36:59 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:37:13 who came up with walk-directory? it sucks -.- 12:37:29 good morning all 12:38:14 wakeup: Peter Seibel 12:38:20 tompa [~tompa@h59ec27fb.sehjjak.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #lisp 12:38:49 following symlinks like that is bad mkay! 12:39:32 patches are welcome, i guess 12:40:03 walk-directory? 12:40:25 -!- xinming [~hyy@125.109.247.155] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:40:33 Aperculum: http://weitz.de/cl-fad/#walk-directory is an implementation of it 12:41:05 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@cpe90-146-32-187.liwest.at] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 12:41:22 wakeup: the semantics of walk-directory are an effect of the semantics of cl:direcory 12:41:26 the problem is you can get the target of a link anytime but the function gives me the target so how am I supposed to know where the link is... 12:41:49 wakeup: you'll have to use something other than cl:directory or cl-fad:walk-directory. 12:41:53 stassats, blind coding is bad as well, discussion is a prerequisite -- which is actually my typical grief with the "patches are welcome" reactions 12:41:55 Xach: ah, thanks 12:41:56 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-238-32.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 12:42:27 wakeup: I don't think that makes walk-directory suck. It's useful, but not in all situations. 12:42:34 deepfire: but they are still welcome 12:42:53 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 12:42:53 makes it about 50% less useful 12:43:06 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:43:19 stassats, this is an obvious default, imho -- no need to mention it 12:43:40 If you care about posix semantics, you should probably use a posix mechanism. 12:43:45 deepfire: no need to say that it sucks as well 12:44:06 Zhivago: like? 12:44:26 Like lstat() 12:44:33 Jasko2 [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 12:44:40 sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:44:42 Or readdir() 12:44:54 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:47:30 -!- Joreji [~thomas@86-084.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:47:43 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:51:58 why would anyone want truenames :( 12:53:11 ah, long live sbcl: (directory PATHSPEC &KEY (RESOLVE-SYMLINKS T)) 12:55:57 xinming [~hyy@125.109.247.155] has joined #lisp 12:57:07 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:57:10 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:57:45 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:57:57 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 12:58:49 Good thing then that the posix semantics are available! 12:59:00 Just use iolib and forget about the DIRECTORY nonsense. 12:59:17 [Although as usual, Windows users lose out.] 13:01:43 roffe_ [~roffe@90.149.29.76] has joined #lisp 13:02:09 -!- roffe [~roffe@90.149.29.76] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:02:11 -!- roffe_ is now known as roffe 13:04:55 lichtblau: I cant find the pathname functions in its documentation (http://common-lisp.net/project/iolib/manual/iolib.html) 13:05:48 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 13:06:04 -!- roffe [~roffe@90.149.29.76] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:08:25 The manual is a work in progress, I believe, and concentrates on sockets at the moment. 13:08:53 last I heard, they don't believe in manuals 13:08:59 so don't hold your breath 13:09:05 roffe [~roffe@19-58-9.connect.netcom.no] has joined #lisp 13:09:14 :/ 13:09:31 But it has (a) all relevant syscalls available (just apropos for them), has (b) a pathname-like abstraction on top of them (see src/pathnames/file-path.lisp) 13:09:37 and (c) iolib.os:list-directory, which is your solution in this case. 13:10:26 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 13:10:39 dlowe: no, that's what I thought too, but evidently fe[nl]ix != attila in this regard, since there _is_ a manual (even if it's quality doesn't approach the code's just yet) 13:10:51 *its ... 13:10:56 and it does list all files in a directory unlike (directory #P"dir/*" :resolve-symlinks nil) right? 13:11:53 (directory #p"dir/*.*") should list them all... 13:12:03 wakeup: yes, very reliably 13:12:23 thanks dlowe 13:12:49 iPac [~bubble@p54AA62C8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:13:05 HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:13:34 it's kind of a pain to make pathnames work, honestly. Unless you care about radical cross-platformness, I'm not sure I'd bother 13:13:56 I think I will go with sbcl's directory and write my own walk-directory instead of using a lib without documentation 13:14:07 sellout [~greg@2002:4855:eb9a:0:21d:4fff:fefe:c504] has joined #lisp 13:14:29 but, I still need a way to find our wether #P"XYZ" is a directory or not 13:14:47 wakeup: are you taking XYZ from user input? 13:15:02 no I am taking XYZ from directory 13:15:25 I could compare (directory "/*") and (directory "/*.*") 13:15:28 but thats ugly 13:15:50 yeah right, use something that has a one-page spec, mishaves on every second user's home dir and doesn't document its weird behaviour over something that follows well-known posix semantics but doesn't repeat those on its homepage 13:15:59 The problem is that CL doesn't consider directories to be files. 13:16:12 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@219-89-90-242.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:16:24 Posix does, and this means that if you care about that kind of distinction, you can't trust CL. 13:16:40 You can look at how a particular implementation does it. 13:16:56 Im already sbcl dependent 13:17:13 Doesn't sbcl qualify directory namestrings with a trailing /? 13:17:27 it does 13:17:33 wakeup: if you call directory on the pathname, it will return a single pathname with the directory part in the right place 13:17:45 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.18.232.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 13:18:10 (directory "non-directory") => (#p"/home/foo/non-directory") 13:18:31 (directory "directory") => (#p"/home/foo/directory/") 13:18:38 on sbcl, at least 13:20:06 -!- HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:20:25 HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:22:46 martin2 [~user@159.92.64.121] has joined #lisp 13:22:55 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:25:39 dlowe: (defun directory-p (path) 13:25:40 (let ((dir (namestring (first (directory path))))) 13:25:41 (equal "/" (subseq dir (- (length dir) 1))))) 13:26:41 wakeup: hideous. (null (pathname-name (directory path))) 13:28:21 you forgot first, but thanks! 13:28:44 yeah, I did at that. oops 13:30:34 no, you forgot CAR! 13:30:45 :D 13:30:46 Is IOlib preferred over usocket these days? I want to do something with multicast. 13:31:15 sellout: linux only? then definitely 13:31:16 I prefer CAR for working with bare conses :) 13:31:36 attila_lendvai: OS X mostly, then Linux. Don't really care about Windows. 13:31:43 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.237] has joined #lisp 13:32:04 dto: http://temporal.pr0.pl/devblog/2010/05/13/cloze-call-postmortem/ is neat 13:32:36 sellout: i don't know about osx, but i think it's not tested there much even if it works 13:33:04 attila_lendvai: Yeah, I'm just now noticing the "supported platforms" table. 13:33:28 Well, I'll give it a try. It supports FBSD, and OS X is a BSD to some extent  13:34:30 Lajla [~Lajla@213-84-222-243.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 13:34:33 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-wqvwbjqsixwmuerk] has left #lisp 13:36:59 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:39:14 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:39:22 Phoodus [foo@174-17-12-60.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:39 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:41:20 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@pa3a20d.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:43:45 jgracin [~jgracin@dh111-186.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 13:45:44 pbalogh [~pbalogh@12.14.38.6] has joined #lisp 13:46:27 -!- jgracin [~jgracin@dh111-186.xnet.hr] has quit [Client Quit] 13:46:29 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:47:11 jgracin [~jgracin@dh111-186.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 13:49:34 -!- fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has quit [Quit: Disconnecting from stoned server.] 13:49:37 fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 13:49:56 -!- jgracin [~jgracin@dh111-186.xnet.hr] has quit [Client Quit] 13:50:05 jgracin [~jgracin@dh111-186.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 13:54:58 gugamilare [~kvirc@200-207-40-188.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 13:55:02 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:55:42 xach: cool 13:58:10 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:59:54 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.237] has joined #lisp 14:01:28 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:02:01 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 14:02:38 Do the SBCL developers run Paul Dietz' test suite as part of the release process? 14:05:14 beach: My impression is "no". I haven't seen any discussion of that on the mailing list or in the release instructions. 14:05:30 So they rely on their own tests? 14:05:43 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.18.232.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 14:05:49 That's my impression. 14:05:55 OK, thanks! 14:06:00 I do see discussion of sbcl's own test suite successes and failures. 14:07:08 -!- jgracin [~jgracin@dh111-186.xnet.hr] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 14:09:13 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:11:21 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:12:30 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:13:34 Does anyone have a copy of Garrett's comp.lang.scheme archive? 14:14:11 ah, found it. xah lee has a link. 14:14:21 -!- roffe [~roffe@19-58-9.connect.netcom.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:15:38 I wonder what nyef thinks about using things like iolib in libraries like lh-usb. 14:16:25 I ran into a nasty corner-case in it, while browsing sysfs, involving DIRECTORY and symlinks.. 14:17:15 Basically, CCL doesn't wild-recurse into symlinked directories, whereas SBCL does. 14:17:27 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.237] has joined #lisp 14:18:33 "wild-recursion of symlinked directories" means consideration of symlinked directories as matches for the wildcards 14:18:44 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.201.88] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 14:20:18 -!- nunb [~nundan@59.178.205.230] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:20:19 deepfire: it's toggled by a keyword argument in sbcl 14:20:43 felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has joined #lisp 14:20:43 nunb [~nundan@59.178.206.48] has joined #lisp 14:23:12 abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 14:23:16 jbd [~user@67-198-71-121.dyn.grandenetworks.net] has joined #lisp 14:24:03 dlowe, it's not, on CCL 14:24:20 what would cause slime to look in /usr/share/common-lisp/source/slime for swank-loader.lisp instead of in ~/.emacs.d/slime? 14:24:44 dlowe, at least as far as (alexandria:map-product (lambda (x1 x2 x3 x4 x5) (directory #p"/sys/bus/usb/devices/*/idProduct" :follow-links x1 :all x2 :directories x3 :directory-pathnames x4 14:25:03 :test x5)) '(t nil) '(t nil) '(t nil) '(t nil) '(t nil)) tells me 14:25:25 jbd: common-lisp-controller 14:27:46 jbd: I recommend using clbuild unless you're ready/willing to maintain your own stack 14:27:57 minion: tell jbd about clbuild 14:27:58 jbd: direct your attention towards clbuild: clbuild is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 14:28:12 it takes care of such stuff if you run it with "clbuild lisp" 14:28:50 -!- mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.15/2009101909]] 14:29:31 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 14:30:36 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:32:07 when I run clbuild, it fails with "./clbuild: line 61: /home/jason/lisp/clbuild/clbuild.conf.default: No such file or directory" 14:32:36 but the file does exist 14:32:43 Davidbrcz [david@212-198-91-47.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 14:32:49 run it from clbuild's directory, I noticed some oddities in one of latest versions. Haven't had time to check it properly 14:33:58 i saw that error when running it from the clbuild directory :/ 14:34:29 weird 14:35:04 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 14:37:14 -!- xan_ [~xan@83.34.169.207] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:39:02 -!- abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:42:48 roffe [~roffe@cm-84.215.145.23.getinternet.no] has joined #lisp 14:47:16 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:48:38 wakeup: I haven't documented the IOlib file-system functions yet because the API is not definitive 14:48:47 deepfire: nyef dislikes CFFI :) 14:49:05 sellout: IOlib doesn't support multicast yet 14:49:18 konr [~user@201.82.133.249] has joined #lisp 14:49:32 fe[nl]ix: Neither does usocket, it seems, so I was just wondering which one I should poke at ;) 14:49:41 sellout: iolib, naturally 14:50:07 HG` [~HG@xdslao173.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 14:50:48 fe[nl]ix: I can't trust you  I mean, you hooked your cart to B-T  14:51:40 EUNKNOWNEXPRESSION: "hooked your cart" 14:52:29 sellout: Usocket is "just" a portability wrapper, you'd probably have to poke your implementation instead. 14:55:48 -!- jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit [Quit: Boot me gently] 14:58:38 pers [~user@194.sub-75-220-149.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 15:00:51 sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has joined #lisp 15:00:55 fe[nl]ix: attached yourself, I guess. 15:01:07 -!- nixie [~nixie@121.227.133.170] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:01:31 fe[nl]ix: Yeah, what p_l said. 15:01:48 tcr: Yeah, it seems there's plenty of reasons to choose IOLib. 15:01:52 milanj [~milanj_@93.87.180.171] has joined #lisp 15:01:54 tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.181] has joined #lisp 15:03:21 sellout: what did I do wrong in using B-T ? 15:03:47 fe[nl]ix: I was just kidding  what we me being the author and all. 15:03:59 :D 15:04:09 s/we/with/ 15:07:10 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-246-7-135.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:08:15 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 15:09:12 hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-9-117-163.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 15:10:45 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:11:50 smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:12:14 -!- rotty [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:12:54 rotty [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has joined #lisp 15:13:22 lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-75-83-150-91.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:18:34 abend [~alx@67.136.131.11] has joined #lisp 15:20:21 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:22:20 Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-96-246-7-135.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:25:28 sykopomp|jeejah [~sykopomp@border.pozitronic.com] has joined #lisp 15:27:36 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:27:36 hi fe[nl]ix 15:27:39 ruepel0r [~rue@f051112241.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 15:27:45 hi Blkt 15:30:48 *Xach* discovers C-c C-u, is happy 15:31:31 postamar [~postamar@x-132-204-254-138.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 15:33:27 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-wjladscbdcctpcqx] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:35:00 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-095-208-108-231.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 15:35:39 -!- tcr [~tcr@115.132.75.126] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:36:07 Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:36:27 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754d97.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:37:28 -!- pers [~user@194.sub-75-220-149.myvzw.com] has left #lisp 15:40:37 -!- ASau` [~user@77.246.231.18] has quit [Quit: off] 15:41:53 -!- HG` [~HG@xdslao173.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:41:54 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:42:41 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:43:44 hi, how can I list the methods of a standard-class instance? 15:44:30 classes don't have methods. 15:44:31 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-11-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:44:31 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 15:44:52 just symbols? 15:44:59 egn: that's kind of an upside-down way to look at it, but there is a way to get a list of methods that have at least one parameter specialized on a particular class... 15:45:00 generic functions do. you need to check that. 15:45:06 *Xach* tries to find it 15:45:43 carlocci [~nes@93.37.215.255] has joined #lisp 15:45:55 Xach: okay nice. a list of accessors would work too if that's possible 15:46:33 egn: There's nothing special about a method that designates it as an accessor in a way that can be queried later. 15:46:43 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:46:56 okay 15:47:16 egn: out of curiosity, what's your ultimate goal? 15:48:57 asarch [~asarch@187.132.210.107] has joined #lisp 15:48:59 -!- lemonodor [~lemonodor@cpe-75-83-150-91.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: lemonodor] 15:49:40 Xach: (define-exported-class foo ((bar :accessor foo-bar)) ... with an &optinal as :all so I can export what I just defined (i.e., 'foo-bar) or a list of specified symbols to export> 15:50:50 I guess I could iterate through the slot specifiers and see if they have :accessor then export those 15:50:57 egn: If you're doing that, you can just capture the  yeah 15:51:04 ha k 15:51:13 egn: You probably also want to check for :reader/:writer. 15:51:22 sellout: yeah, good idea 15:52:07 egn: You might want to think about the exported generic function (and plain function) interface independently of the class used to implement parts of it. 15:52:40 you don't need the mop for this. just write the macro... 15:52:56 gz_ [~gz@2002:4855:eb9a:0:21e:c2ff:fe0f:2d89] has joined #lisp 15:53:00 sykopomp|jeejah: yeah, it's looking that way 15:53:22 Xach: sorry, not sure what you mean. I have things like define-exported-method but I don't think that's what you're saying 15:54:01 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-aakwlekzslfnneyv] has joined #lisp 15:54:21 egn: I'm saying don't mix up exporting an interface and defining it. 15:54:55 Xach: okay, why wouldn't you suggest it? 15:58:20 felideon` [~user@12.228.15.162] has joined #lisp 15:59:00 -!- felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:59:03 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 15:59:07 egn: I find it easier to understand. 15:59:47 Xach: okay 15:59:50 thanks 15:59:56 -!- gz_ [~gz@2002:4855:eb9a:0:21e:c2ff:fe0f:2d89] has left #lisp 16:01:30 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:03:41 slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 16:05:06 -!- christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:06:53 wakeup pasted "help!?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99174 16:07:00 help me :> 16:07:29 Rigdern [~Rigdern@foxy-60.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 16:07:38 -!- CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:07:50 christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 16:09:11 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:09:27 clhs intersection 16:09:28 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_isec_.htm 16:09:44 wakeup: read that 16:09:50 wakeup: you might want to use a table that has case-insensitive keys. 16:10:33 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 16:11:57 wakeup: SORT also takes a useful KEY argument. it can help you avoid defining ordering predicates. 16:16:28 psilord [~psilord@merlin.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 16:16:40 -!- mrSpec is now known as spec`away 16:17:14 dlowe: intersection doesnt help me 16:19:02 Xach: so sort destroys the list stored in the hashtable? 16:19:48 wakeup: Sort may destroy the structure of its argument. 16:20:02 wakeup: If you don't like that, do a copy-list of it first. 16:20:46 sort doesnt seem to be the problem to me 16:21:31 I only sort a fresh list, how could it modify the hashtable 16:22:30 the thing is some searches seem to change the hashtable 16:24:16 eg. key "triakis" was '(("markup.html" 3) ("foo" 1) ("bar" 1)), (searchwords db '("triakis")) removed ("markup.html" 3) from the list stored in "triakis" 16:24:37 but when I do the same search again sothing is removed 16:25:27 how did "triakis"=>'(("markup.html" 3) ("foo" 1) ("bar" 1)) become "triakis"=>'(("foo" 1) ("bar" 1)) ? 16:26:21 Im pretty sure only the pasted functions can be responsible 16:27:04 webdever [~david@64.203.60.56] has joined #lisp 16:27:48 wakeup: tmp-list isn't fresh. 16:28:04 wakeup: it's fresh when you have the initial binding, but then you overwrite that binding with the list from the table with setf. 16:31:38 Xach: thanks, it worked with copy-list 16:31:55 check this out guys: http://triakis.ath.cx/lookup.lisp 16:32:49 *Xach* has been working on searching lately too 16:33:03 cool :> 16:33:43 http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/search?q=copy-list for example 16:34:09 how do you put your hunchentoot into background? (linux) 16:34:29 so its kind of like a daemon 16:34:36 wakeup: I use screen. 16:35:18 -!- ruepel0r [~rue@f051112241.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:35:57 Id have to give my httpd user a password then but it would work 16:36:32 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 16:36:42 *Xach* is proud of how quickly it gets all 3000 results for http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/search?q=lisp 16:36:45 in case anybody is interested, there's an ongoing work by hlavaty to port hu.dwim.perec/hu.dwim.rdbms to Oracle and Allegro 8.1 16:36:52 -!- psilord [~psilord@merlin.cs.wisc.edu] has left #lisp 16:36:59 it just got into a state where it starts to be usable, see at http://www.knowledgetools.de/tmp/temporaer/tomas/index.html 16:37:06 not yet merged into head 16:37:14 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:37:41 I think my search is pretty fast too, since it just looks up a hashtable in memory. 16:38:15 I think I might require the assistance of an asdf2-expert. 16:38:21 Is any such available? 16:38:51 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 16:40:44 CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 16:42:47 wakeup: how many documents are available? 16:42:51 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:45:01 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-11-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:49:28 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-156-147-36.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:49:35 -!- nunb [~nundan@59.178.206.48] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:52:38 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@rrcs-67-78-79-54.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:53:37 Xach: not so many, but 1148 different words. 16:53:52 which is basically nothing too^^ 16:54:10 but I dont think it will get slower with more files/words 16:54:24 at least not much 16:54:42 there's only one way to find out: add 5,000 documents with 50,000 distinct words! 16:55:06 is there like an sbcl internal cron? like funcall this function every day? 16:55:16 :P 16:55:29 indexing will take ages^^ 16:56:01 wakeup: you could do that with a thread 16:56:27 *hefner* used to use SBCL as an alarm clock 16:56:43 sounds promising 16:56:58 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-238-32.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:57:35 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.161.239.38] has joined #lisp 16:58:43 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0063-25-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:59:29 skeledrew [~skeledrew@72.27.25.63] has joined #lisp 16:59:39 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-238-32.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 17:01:28 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 17:03:26 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:04:21 killerboy [~mateusz@smrw-91-193-87-5.smrw.lodz.pl] has joined #lisp 17:05:05 hefner: heh, sleep N && cat /dev/urandom > /dev/dsp was mine for a few years :P 17:05:30 that would certainly wake someone up. 17:06:30 oh, and it most certainly did 17:06:40 I had troubles waking up at that time 17:06:44 this was the only thing that worked :) 17:06:53 horrible sound, btw 17:09:07 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@adsl174.uninet.ee] has joined #lisp 17:09:35 levente_meszaros: did you see the linkedin thread about lisp persistence solutions? 17:11:04 So far I've resisted spamming it with perec comments, partly because of the annoying "but these days DBs are obsolete right? stuff fits into RAM, after all" people. 17:11:28 why does this return nil? (member "a" '("a" "b" "c")) 17:11:52 but stuff does fit into RAM! =/ 17:12:05 ah, nevermind, i needed the equalp test 17:12:11 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:12:58 lichtblau: link? 17:13:11 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 17:13:17 lichtblau, no I haven't seen 17:14:08 I don't like to advertise ourselves much 17:14:45 I often get blamed for some reason or another (such as HCL) 17:14:48 http://www.linkedin.com/e/ava/14258094/830547 17:14:49 *p_l* is too lazy to patch perec to make it work with new iolib, but the library itself is very interesting 17:14:58 quite some insightful comments there actually 17:15:01 p_l: what new iolib ? 17:15:02 dysinger [~dysinger@cpe-98-150-133-209.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:15:11 fe[nl]ix: get-monotonic-time stuff 17:16:04 -!- martin2 [~user@159.92.64.121] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:16:41 fe[nl]ix: to be exact, the Symbol "%SYS-GET-MONOTONIC-TIME" not found in the IOLIB.SYSCALLS package. issue. 17:17:24 p_l: it's ISYS:GET-MONOTONIC-TIME now 17:18:07 nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-163-168.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 17:18:09 p_l: I'm here, it's easy to ask me how to solve it :) 17:18:27 G'afternoon all. 17:18:30 hi nyef 17:18:31 HCL? 17:19:12 bah, I need a linkedin account to see that thread 17:19:13 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 17:19:29 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 17:20:20 fe[nl]ix: I call that utter laziness, when I'm too lazy to be bothered with one line fix :P 17:21:04 mind you, I think I patched half of DWIM with various small, supposedly nonimportant things before I gave up 17:22:03 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-205-190.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:22:33 lichtblau, the hungarian or whatever way of CL 17:22:55 p_l, did you send any of those to the mailing lists? 17:22:57 -!- HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:23:16 lichtblau: what does "Sorry you are not a member of the group you are trying to access." mean ? 17:23:38 hah, I just got the same 17:23:59 levente_meszaros: most were related to local installation, not to libraries themselves, and to general mess that was on my filesystem 17:24:29 levente_meszaros: I'm not really sure if global move of closer-mop from :use to :shadowing-import-from would be a nice patch :) 17:24:33 is there a lisp cabal on linkedin ? 17:24:47 fe[nl]ix: there's, but not much traffic - at least last time I checked 17:25:13 hmm, I think it means that the "Common Lisp" group is a leet club of people that you need to join first. I got in though, so the bar can't be very high. 17:25:29 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754d97.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:25:45 lichtblau: the approval process is generic to all communities, the rest depends on moderators. 17:26:48 varjaaks [~SESA13420@115.118.25.86] has joined #lisp 17:27:07 Legal IT Support Professionals (LISP) 17:27:09 lol 17:31:43 sykopomp|jeejah` [~sykopomp@border.pozitronic.com] has joined #lisp 17:31:43 -!- sykopomp|jeejah [~sykopomp@border.pozitronic.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:32:50 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@72.27.25.63] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:33:22 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93.87.180.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:34:07 -!- knobo [~user@90.149.5.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:35:08 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:35:38 *Xach* is almost done with v2 of the usenet search system, this time doing all the searches from disk-based indexes instead of loading them in memory 17:35:57 Xach: Cool! 17:36:10 are you writing your own indexing stuff? 17:36:19 ... One of these days, I'd like to move the lisppaste indexes to disk. 17:36:55 rsynnott: wrote. but the original version kept everything in memory. 17:37:01 sepult` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-140-105.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:37:28 rsynnott: this version keeps only a table mapping words to integer ids in memory. (i'd like to eliminate that, too, but haven't figured it out yet) 17:37:34 milanj [~milanj_@79.101.180.191] has joined #lisp 17:38:51 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-205-190.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:38:54 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0063-25-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 17:39:20 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-78-34-205-38.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:40:00 rsynnott: Since I'm adding a few more authors, I wanted to pare down the in-memory size. 17:45:06 -!- dodek [dodek@qwpx.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:46:02 Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.96.29.161] has joined #lisp 17:46:41 Dodek [dodek@jest.pro] has joined #lisp 17:48:04 -!- sykopomp|jeejah` [~sykopomp@border.pozitronic.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:48:24 sykopomp|jeejah [~sykopomp@border.pozitronic.com] has joined #lisp 17:49:33 Hun [~hun@95-90-225-75-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 17:50:33 *hefner* is doing vaguely weby, searchy things too: http://vintage-digital.com/hefner/misc/shuffleweb.jpg 17:51:59 -!- gugamilare [~kvirc@200-207-40-188.dsl.telesp.net.br] has quit [Quit: KVIrc Insomnia 4.0.0, revision: 3900, sources date: 20100125, built on: 2010-02-15 08:38:32 UTC http://www.kvirc.net/] 17:52:10 roffe_ [~roffe@cm-84.215.145.23.getinternet.no] has joined #lisp 17:52:50 does anybody have a quick reference to code for a functional key/value storage tree? 17:53:51 uh, functional as in "works" or as in "immutable"? 17:54:01 pure functional, as in immutable 17:54:04 TREES is nice for the former, the latter is probably provided by fare or so 17:54:11 francogrex [~user@39.233-245-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 17:54:21 adding/removing values should return a new root with as much node sharing as possible 17:55:13 -!- CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:55:49 -!- roffe [~roffe@cm-84.215.145.23.getinternet.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:55:49 -!- roffe_ is now known as roffe 17:56:10 Is Orcale still greedily holding the rights for chestnut lisp system? 17:56:55 curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:57:10 what are they using it for anyway? 17:57:13 francogrex: Is there evidence they were greedily holding it before? 17:57:40 francogrex: Maybe you could ask 'em. 17:58:09 Xach: someone who works there once told us (works at oracle); 17:59:24 but to tell you the truth; I doubt what he was saying: http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t683509-is-it-possible-to-convert-lisp-to-c.html 18:00:02 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:00:42 francogrex: Maybe binghe can point you to a person to petition for the Chestnut system 18:00:43 the last post in that link is from some guy who claims to be working in a company that has the right 18:01:17 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 18:01:31 Xach: maybe; well, I'm curious, what does a so called "commercial" company develop today using this chestnut 18:02:13 I think if enough of us write to oracle we may get it 18:02:20 francogrex: Please don't write. Your obnoxious behavior would probably discourage them. 18:02:34 Xach: then who will 18:02:38 I will write. 18:02:50 ok; great; I will just sign then 18:02:53 *Xach* asks binghe who to write 18:02:59 phf [~user@c-76-116-243-232.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:05:31 Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 18:06:48 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:07:03 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-229-26.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:07:31 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 18:09:35 -!- varjaaks [~SESA13420@115.118.25.86] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:12:00 -!- tompa [~tompa@h59ec27fb.sehjjak.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 18:12:32 -!- sykopomp|jeejah is now known as sykopomp` 18:12:47 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 18:12:52 -!- sykopomp` [~sykopomp@border.pozitronic.com] has quit [Changing host] 18:12:52 sykopomp` [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 18:13:07 -!- sykopomp` is now known as sykopomp|jeejah 18:14:01 -!- sykopomp|jeejah [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has left #lisp 18:15:18 Huh. 18:15:31 I thought converting lisp to C was no big problem at all. 18:16:15 sure, you just sit down in emacs with your code in one pane and an empty C file in the other, and start typing. 18:16:25 or run ECL 18:16:25 Ask Yahoo. 18:16:38 sykopomp|jeejah [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 18:17:10 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c-93b6e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:17:17 astalla [~astalla@93-36-226-168.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 18:17:36 gcl does it for ya, no? 18:17:58 Xantoz [~hejhej@c-93b6e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 18:19:01 it's not a problem; it's not mainly about converting lisp to C, it's about holding a system that can be used for "research and learning" (theoretically); I doubt they are using it for any production/commercial reason 18:19:15 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-238-32.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:19:29 heh. 18:19:54 francogrex: why do you doubt that? 18:19:55 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:21:31 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@82-171-137-254.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 18:22:46 Even if they weren't using it I guess they have their reasons for doing what they are doing. Patent issues perhaps, or just maybe they feel a need to mess with the open source zealots. 18:22:47 daniel__1 [~daniel@p5082C2C9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:23:28 If they own it, they're the ones who decide what they'll do with it, unbeholden to anyone 18:24:45 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@adsl174.uninet.ee] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:25:58 btw, Chicken and ECL both can generate "standalone" C code (respectively, from R5RS and ANSI CL) 18:26:35 hefner: I have no indication that anything at least in Oracle is coming out of it (I know well the Oracle market, my company is one of the biggest clients) 18:26:36 And Gambit too, and Thinlisp. 18:26:37 (that's how you bootstrap them) 18:26:39 -!- daniel__ [~daniel@p5082EE28.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:27:00 Danmaku: I haven't used Gambit nor Thinlisp, but I had experience with both Chicken and ECL. 18:27:13 And I actually would like to port some stuff from Chicken to ECL and SBCL :D 18:27:15 schmx: yes the open source zealots, that's me and Richard 18:27:24 Gambit is great, Thinlisp unfortunately does not implement everything in ANSI CL. 18:28:16 *hefner* investigates ThinLisp 18:28:29 p_l: what would you like to port? 18:28:36 francogrex: To be honest there are a lot of software I'd love to see go free and even open source. This specific one I couldn't care less about.. What's wrong with the lisp to c converters already out there? 18:28:55 loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has joined #lisp 18:29:15 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:29:17 Danmaku: Chicken has specified parts of the runtime that it can drop for final delivery and run without. 18:29:24 schmx: nothing is wrong, except that chestnut seems nicer 18:29:51 Danmaku: Dropping the whole compiler and debugger gives you 1/3 smaller runtime, iirc. 18:29:55 so who would sign my letter: http://francoatgrex.tripod.com/ 18:30:15 lol 18:30:33 p_l: That's nice, gambit creates really big executables instead. 18:30:49 Danmaku: how big is really big? 18:31:00 -!- asarch [~asarch@187.132.210.107] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:31:22 It depends on what you compare it to. 18:31:24 -!- daniel__1 is now known as daniel 18:31:34 But say, 4MB+ for a hello world app. 18:31:47 ah, that's disappointing. 18:32:45 It's not really that important in the sense that it doesn't grow much from there. 18:32:58 francogrex: a very diplomatic letter 18:33:04 -!- felideon` [~user@12.228.15.162] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:33:09 I'm sure if I were an Oracle manager, that would convince me ;) 18:33:13 Good evening! 18:33:16 But it's bad for simple small applications. 18:34:36 *p_l* recalls how people bitched about 1.5MB "hello worlds" in Delphi 18:35:15 -!- redline6561 [~redline@adsl-145-180-78.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:35:22 mind you, the record is held by early C++ compilers, afaik, at least when you factor in the actual complexity of the runtime and code involved. 18:35:25 ram is cheap. developer time is not 18:35:44 Let's see. How much does 4MB of RAM cost these days (assuming it would all be in RAM)? 18:35:44 -!- stray_hound__ is now known as straydev 18:35:54 Phoodus: 1.5MB hello world in time when 32MB is a professional workstation was *big* :) 18:36:04 yes 18:36:06 (that was result of C++) 18:36:10 I am guessing around 1 cent or so. 18:36:15 but even then, fixed overhead isn't a problem 18:36:26 No one cares about the RAM. 18:36:33 that was just the size of the included libraries, not that one function blew up into that large of an object 18:36:39 hefner: Oh, so it's the disk. 18:36:43 Phoodus: well it's still a draft 18:36:44 they only shrunk after that due to smarter linkers 18:36:51 How much does 4MB of disk cost these days? 18:36:52 not because of better code 18:36:57 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@117.96.29.161] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:37:06 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 18:37:45 beach: some people might care about bandwidth. 4 MB of bloat times, say, ten thousand downloads. 18:38:00 beach: first thing I find is a 500GB HDD at 396SEK .. I guess we could calculate 4MB from that :) 18:38:02 (in the hypothetical world where lispers wrote software for use by non-lispers) 18:38:09 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-205-190.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:11 hefner: i wonder how much bandwidth the 4GB portal download used yesterday. 18:38:14 beach: Assuming that a half-terabyte notebook hard drive costs around $100, which I'll admit is more of a last-year price point... not much. 18:38:48 But, as everyone points out, sod the disk space, how much is the bandwidth? 18:39:05 I do care about bandwith. 18:39:12 although, if you took every binary in my path, and adding 4 MB of bloat to each one, it would hurt. 18:39:17 is there anyone who is not a on a 100/100MB internet connection these days anyway? 18:39:25 I guess smartphoners. hmmm.. 18:39:26 (i'm at a capped network where downloads go at 8 kb/sec) 18:39:36 hefner: And that can be done, just statically link everything. 18:39:36 that's why buildapp can embed many apps in a single binary and dispatch on argv[0]! 18:39:49 But otherwise RAM and disk space isn't much of an issue today. 18:40:03 -!- segmond [~seg@adsl-99-103-115-52.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:40:28 schmx: Isn't that more the local net, and the internet is lucky to hit 768kbit? 18:40:32 and the "all execs * 4MB" is only a problem because all OSes do shared libraries horribly 18:40:41 straydev pasted "anybody know why this is happening?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/99192 18:40:42 for lispers, you guys have a weak grasp on this concept of "the right thing." four megs of excess code in a hello world executable, most of which never even runs, is clearly wrong. 18:41:24 again, intelligent linkers 18:41:25 How often do you even -run- a hello world executable? 18:41:25 hefner: it doesn't matter much 18:41:33 and that's a fixed overhead no matter how large the program gets 18:41:45 because your useful applications aren't hello world 18:41:54 (and why am I fixating on 4 MB? Let's assume 64-bit SBCL, and make it 45 MB) 18:41:58 *p_l* doesn't have a problem with 4MBs. He has problems with 150MB 18:42:06 -!- sepult` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-140-105.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:42:15 otoh, it's not a hello world anymore :P 18:42:17 right, and that's why you run multiple things in a single environment (lisp, jvm, etc) 18:42:30 Phoodus: that is a fantasy world. 18:43:13 perhaps the final fantasy 18:43:53 frankly speaking, shared partial images, kinda like how ECL can use shared objects with single object for a complete system (hunchentoot.so, postmodern.so etc.) is enough for me 18:44:11 hefner: huh? that's how we write all our software 18:44:30 Phoodus: who is we, and what kind of software? 18:44:59 we as in my company, and software as in generally distributed servers for our customers 18:45:09 doesn't count. 18:45:23 but even in "normal" personal dev, environments are expensive. Make few of them 18:46:26 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 18:46:46 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-140-105.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:49:26 eugu [~Miranda@212.1.246.237] has joined #lisp 18:51:30 nha [~prefect@p3E9E6DB7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:51:43 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:53:20 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 18:54:45 -!- myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:57:05 CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 18:58:20 Xach: http://triakis.ath.cx/lookup.lisp?keywords=jpg 114 hits, pretty quickly :) 18:59:12 myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 18:59:18 -!- kom_ [~el@brain.cx] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:01:22 wakeup: very fast - i get a 503 service not available 19:01:43 very quickly, yes 19:02:24 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-205-190.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:02:44 "it's so hard to run lisp as cgi" 19:02:47 "harder than java?" 19:02:52 "that doesn't count" 19:03:00 "rightV" 19:03:20 -!- milanj [~milanj_@79.101.180.191] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:03:24 Xach: bad timing :P 19:03:39 I just took it down to automate putting it up^^ 19:04:08 fastcgi works fine, though :D 19:05:59 -!- levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Quit: ...] 19:06:45 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-128-62.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 19:08:13 milanj [~milanj_@79.101.220.18] has joined #lisp 19:10:03 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c-93b6e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:10:24 varjaaks [~SESA13420@115.118.30.142] has joined #lisp 19:10:43 nearlyfreespeech.net does lisp CGI 19:11:03 (and a bunch of other cgi languages) 19:11:25 sure you can run lisp as cgi pretty much anywhere 19:11:32 I mean all preconfigured 19:11:37 but it doesn't make it fast 19:11:41 yeah 19:11:44 Xach: try now 19:12:50 -!- iPac [~bubble@p54AA62C8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:14:32 hmm, are there any good OpenAL bindings for CL? 19:14:59 iPac [~bubble@p54AA6502.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:15:05 for the good of all humanity, let the farce that is OpenAL die. 19:15:48 alternatives? 19:16:20 depends on your needs. 19:16:38 (I won't have any useful suggestions even knowing them, but it's true) 19:17:15 -!- Danmaku [dmk@83.231.91.242] has quit [] 19:17:37 Xantoz [~hejhej@c-93b6e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 19:17:54 it's rare to have a web server running any cgi except for perl 19:19:07 maybe for classic CGI. FastCGI is growing again. 19:20:24 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.161.239.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:21:48 gugamilare [~kvirc@200-207-40-188.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #lisp 19:23:40 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@219.241.85.107] has joined #lisp 19:25:13 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-41-204.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:25:30 cbeok [~user@216.229.3.105] has joined #lisp 19:26:38 how many, do you suppose, "working" lisp programmers there are out there - perhaps, if you wanted to get away from numbers, expressed as a fraction of all programmers, or as a fraction of (programmer,programming language) pairs. 19:26:59 ?* 19:27:02 nyef: I dunno. I have the experience that most sites a browse hit way more than 768kbit. 19:27:03 cbeok: why do you care? 19:27:08 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-aakwlekzslfnneyv] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:27:12 I browse. 19:27:19 powerje [~powerje@dhcp-128-146-43-45.osuwireless.ohio-state.edu] has joined #lisp 19:27:21 beach: why shouldn't I care? 19:27:45 beach: because I like lisp, I want to do it more often, and I'm frustrated at work. 19:27:47 cbeok: Perhaps you should. It depends on your reason. 19:27:59 also what do you mean lisp programmers; many so called lisp programmers are also C/C++ programmers or even java/perl programmers etc 19:28:03 wakeup: how much does it take to run the query according to TIME? 19:28:13 cbeok: The popularity of Lisp is not going to influence what you do at work. 19:28:38 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:29:01 Xach: I dont know, how do I find out? 19:29:12 I understand that if somebody hadn't put the time in to thinking about this sort of thing before they wouldn't have an answer immediately. Maybe I should just seek to find out myself if nobody here has a good idea. 19:29:15 I'm unable to submit lisppastes for #abcl; do you have the same issue? 19:29:36 cbeok: i do clojure at work fulltime, because our team leader convinced mgmt that it was a good idea. there's probably, like, 10 full time clojure devs out there in general, yet it's not stopping us. 19:29:41 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-41-204.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 19:29:55 cbeok: I just don't see how a figure like that would help you. Would you go confront your management with it, and use it to demand that Lisp be used more often? 19:30:01 psilord [~psilord@merlin.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 19:30:18 wakeup: if your search function is called like this: (lookup "jpg" *search-index*), then try this: (time (lookup "jpg" *search-index*)) 19:30:47 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-215-244.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:51 beach: well, I'm not looking for a rhetorical edge. I'm not looking for an advantage, I'm just curious. 19:30:55 cbeok: out of all people in the whole code outputting industry I'll pull the number 0.01% lispers out of my hat. 19:31:26 cbeok: as in people actually earning a living off of lisp. 19:31:26 I think its more likely 0.03333..... 19:31:30 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.18.242] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:32:03 cbeok: The figure is pretty low, which tells me that Lisp is a tool currently under-appreciated by the vast majority of mediocer programmers. Am I surprised? 19:32:38 beach: Meh, someone just needs to write a really successful porn management site in lisp, then everyone will want to learn it. 19:32:53 cbeok: So now, what do we do about this situation? Make Lisp look like Java so that mediocre programmers will use it as well? 19:32:56 psilord: dude, I really enjoyed your iolib tutorial 19:33:13 beach: no! 19:33:24 beach: I think it is more that other environments / languages with batteries provide better and completer toolsets for quick producing end products. 19:33:25 cbeok: Or perhaps we should systematically eliminate mediocre programmers from the gene pool? 19:33:28 beach: that means we will never see a good lisp library again 19:33:29 cbeok: Thank you! 19:33:38 Xach: 145,975 processor cycles, 0.0 seconds of real time 19:33:54 beach: no thanks - how would I stand out? 19:33:57 "Half-knowledge is more victorious than whole knowledge: it understands things as being more simple than they are and this renders its opinions more easily intelligible and more convincing." 19:34:12 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-90-242.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 19:34:23 cbeok: I'm very shortly about to release a master/worker library that I've written. It is intended to work with 10K to 50K slave clients. 19:34:29 It is written on top of iolib. :) 19:34:45 kom_ [~el@brain.cx] has joined #lisp 19:34:54 Xach: all time values are 0.000..., looks fishy... 19:35:07 psilord: bitchin' I'll definitely keep on the lookout for it. 19:35:27 wakeup: no, it only means it's the Chuck Norris of cmputers. 19:35:35 cbeok: My day job is a distributed computing hacker. :) I'm a bit tired of the C++ hell, I moved to lisp, I'm never going back. 19:35:36 Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:35:45 cbeok: When I worked in industry (a while ago now I admit), I managed to use Lisp without asking permission. Nobody noticed, and everyone was happy with the much-better-than-average performance of my group. 19:35:45 pjb: 500mhz amd geode :P 19:35:59 cbeok: Well, I go back at work, cause that's what we use, but for personal stuff, never again. 19:36:50 psilord: not to be a hipster about it - but have you played around with erlang? 19:37:11 Xach: if you're interested in my nobb code: http://triakis.ath.cx/hgwebdir.cgi/static-search/file/a9a731146388 19:38:00 nvm that link 19:38:13 hgwebdir seems to fail with lisp files -.- 19:38:43 beach: that's valuable testimony for me actually - I've been coding in python at work (admittedly, nicer than some of the things I COULD be working in) and I keep bumping up against tedious situations which could be taken care of in lisp in a matter of minutes. 19:39:04 cboek, not really. I've read about it some, but I've come to a point in my life where I need to write a lot of code as fast as I can. For reasons only valid for me, I've chosen Lisp as the implementation language. 19:39:15 beach: sometimes literally whole days are spent on something that I could've done in lisp in an hour... thats with emacs macros helping me out. 19:39:48 oh lol 19:39:57 psilord: understood - not trying to diffuse your energies - I've just been enamored of erlang for the last couple of years. 19:40:33 fe[nl]ix, ping 19:40:58 btw, anyone using perec and Postgres' geographical datatypes here? 19:41:08 cbeok: I've definitely dabbled in a lot of languages, but this time I need the thing I'm making more than the satisfaction I could gain by learning another language deeply. :) 19:41:17 *Fare* got iolib to compile with xcvb - now to get iolib inside xcvb itself, extend its event loop with child handling, and start the multiprocessing. 19:43:12 cbeok: I suggest you do it your way. 19:43:58 then a portable (to unix) run-program can be written on top. 19:44:01 cbeok: I chose lisp because it is the closest to how I think about things: symbolically and in a multiparadigm manner. I have setfs right next to mapcars, I use the solution which the problem naturally suggests. I don't care if the code is pretty, I just care if it is robust. :) 19:44:05 as for windows... meh. 19:44:34 HG` [~HG@xdsler113.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:44:38 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-90-242.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:44:49 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.66.225] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:45:52 cbeok: I figure I'll know what pretty lisp is after I've written ten years of it. :) Until then, I got stuff to make work. :) 19:46:48 psilord: spoken like a hacker. I've been tryinig to curb my impulse to write pretty code and elegant algorithms - its stupid I know (really, I do), but I can't seem to help myself. 19:47:13 sounds like a great answer for a job interview. "my main flaw? i'm too much of a perfectionist workaholic." 19:47:34 cbeok: Why do you try to curb this impulse? 19:47:44 "My main flaw? That pesky need for oxygen." 19:47:54 ^ 19:48:08 Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:48:10 psilord, beach: sometimes I'll dink around for twice the time it took to solve a problem just trying to make it look and "feel" nicer - sometimes I just want to let it be solved. 19:48:40 thats neither here nor there though - just responding to psilord's comment 19:48:41 http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/11/12/ 19:48:42 cbeok: Keep your habit of elegant algorithms, pretty code, meh, it all goes down the crapper the first time you need to really extend it anyway. O(n) will always be better than O(N^2), and that's a fact. 19:48:54 hah 19:49:27 dlowe: exactly. 19:50:46 Xach: my last answer to that question was "I keep bumping into my old professors who berate me about finishing my PhD." This literally happens about once a week. 19:51:21 -!- francogrex [~user@39.233-245-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:52:09 ...about not finishing...* 19:52:42 kenjin_ [~kenjin@219.241.85.107] has joined #lisp 19:52:51 cbeok, move to a different continent 19:52:51 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@219.241.85.107] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:53:00 here, I've only had a few girlfriends berate me. 19:53:11 Or just, you know, finish your PhD. 19:53:12 Fare: lucky bastard (two counts) 19:53:15 Xach: I can testify it works. Of course if you tell them your main flaw is that you're a lazy bum you can't decide between erc and usenet... 19:54:01 redline6561 [~redline@adsl-145-180-78.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:29 nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has joined #lisp 19:57:23 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:57:28 Xach: now it works ;) http://triakis.ath.cx/hgwebdir.cgi/static-search/file/a9a731146388 19:57:53 -!- phf [~user@c-76-116-243-232.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 19:57:59 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:58:02 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 19:58:43 cbeok, luck is when opportunity meets preparedness. Bastard, you have to be born that way. 20:00:22 wakeup: ouch 20:00:31 I thought luck was just the probability of opportunity 20:01:49 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-41-204.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:02:00 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-41-204.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 20:02:22 To me, luck is an attitude. Some people are just so unhappy they don't manage to take advantage of opportunity. Some are so happy they don't care about the occasional setback. 20:02:52 faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 20:03:17 beach: Perhaps they are unhappy because they are unlucky. 20:03:24 I like Winston Churchill's "success is to go from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm" 20:03:41 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has quit [Quit: Want lisppaste in your channel? Email lisppaste-requests AT common-lisp.net.] 20:03:44 lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:15 Xach: That would violate my scientific view of life. 20:04:22 beach: have a look at http://www.ted.com/talks/nicholas_christakis_the_hidden_influence_of_social_networks.html Some people let themselves be influenced too much :-) 20:04:59 I'm looking for an on-disk datastructure that can be used to map a sequence of octets (from 1 to 100 octets in length) to a unique integer id. Can you suggest a place to start looking? 20:05:07 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-229-26.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:05:26 *Xach* has a string-keyed hash table in memory and it's too slow to load 20:05:55 <[df]> Xach: http://cr.yp.to/cdb.html perhaps? 20:05:59 Why should it be on disk? It seems to be just concatenating the 100 octets to make an integer would be a solution to the stated problem. 20:06:18 (with some shifting for null bytes). 20:06:59 pjb: the problem is poorly phrased. i have assigned consecutive integer ids to a list of 50,000 words. i want to retreive the id, given the word. 20:07:11 [df]: thanks 20:07:40 -!- powerje [~powerje@dhcp-128-146-43-45.osuwireless.ohio-state.edu] has quit [Quit: powerje] 20:07:41 <[df]> having heard the rephrasing, I think that solves the opposite problem 20:07:43 pers [~user@87.sub-75-220-12.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 20:07:48 pjb: Sorry, problems with flash player on this platform. 20:07:54 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 20:08:06 [df]: i'm not so sure. i think that will do the trick. and i've seen some CL code for reading from CDBs. 20:08:13 Again why should it be on disk, it seems to me that 50,000 words + integer could be held in RAM easily? In any case, any tree structure would do. You could prototype it with a unix directory structure, using one letter subdirectory names. 20:08:27 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0063-25-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:08:43 pjb: It fits in ram easily, it loads slowly. 20:09:12 rme [~rme@pool-70-106-132-157.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:19 Xach: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trie 20:09:23 Xach: I would do this: make a nice tree (without pointers) in RAM, save it to a file. Use that file memory mapped, and walk the tree naturally. 20:09:23 pjb: That's fine for a long-lived web-based interface but I have other interfaces in mind. 20:09:29 Xach: Save it in a .core file? 20:09:47 Xach: that's overkill though, why not just have a text file on disk with the mapping, and store it in a hash table when you load it? 20:09:59 psilord: It is too slow to load. 20:10:02 Then you will load a number of page close to the minimum. You may also try to optimize on the word frequencies and page sizes. 20:10:20 Xach: how slow is too slow? 20:10:20 But I'd bet you'd not earn more than one or perhaps two page reads. 20:10:28 Xach: Is it in a CGI or something? How often do you load it? 20:10:29 hefner: 0.15 seconds 20:10:46 How fast is fast enough? 20:10:48 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:10:50 ah. about what I expected. :) 20:10:54 0.025 seconds or so. 20:11:11 What about dumping it as an image segment that can be mmap()ed and a tagged pointer constructed? 20:11:29 Well, I think this can be easily done with a cdb file with the constraints I need, so I'll try that first. 20:11:55 I don't think I'll need to stray from standard octet i/o to do it. 20:12:00 Berkely db libraries already implement it too. 20:12:22 marioxcc [~user@200.92.176.155] has joined #lisp 20:12:25 *hefner* is still impressed how well the using lisp reader works for loading Shuffletron's ID3 cache, given a 27k song library and an irrational obsession with startup time 20:12:33 davazp [~user@64.Red-79-157-94.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:39 Xach, are you reading one byte at a time? :) 20:14:24 -!- webdever [~david@64.203.60.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:14:40 If I could have a dollar for every major project I've seen whose underlying I/O system reads and writes in single bytes, I'd have about 20 bucks. :) 20:15:07 psilord: Do you think I'm stupid, or what? 20:15:14 Xach: If you're interested in cdb-style files, you might be able to steal code from ccl. See ccl:lib;db-io.lisp. 20:15:23 Xach: stupid no, in a hurry, maybe. :) 20:15:41 I'm in a hurry to get results from the program, and not in a hurry to write the program. 20:16:17 (but there might be too much implementation-specific gunk in there.) 20:17:34 Xach: fare-utils has an implementation of tries 20:17:51 -!- Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:18:12 Fare: on-disk tries? 20:18:22 called (fast mergeable integer maps) after the Okasaki & Gill article. 20:18:25 how many of these lookups do you do once you've loaded the data? just one (or a few) words? or many words? 20:18:47 hefner: fewer than 15 20:18:53 these are not on-disk, no. Would require some tweakage to make it so. 20:19:06 hefner: converting a set of search terms to term ids. 20:19:10 koollman [~samson_t@ns301422.ovh.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:11 Xach: Use run-program, grep, and a file of "term id" lines? 20:20:41 heh 20:20:53 now see here 20:21:07 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0063-25-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 20:21:13 Xach, if you are making an executable, can you preload the word/id map into the image? Or will it be changing often on the disk? 20:21:24 It's only 50K of words and integers. 20:22:17 I was wondering why pjb's suggestion of partitioning it into a one or two level tree of directories in the filesystem wasn't taken seriously. 20:23:07 I'm hyped to try the cdb approach. It sounds more fun. Anything to avoid sbcl's slow character i/o. 20:23:25 what's cdb? 20:23:28 http://cr.yp.to/cdb/cdb.txt 20:24:47 If the 50K words never change, then use a perfect hash function to map them to the ids, and keep the table statically in your code. 20:25:10 Then no disk i/o at all. 20:25:19 weirdo [~sthalik@c130-62.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:25:59 the words do change. dumping them into the image isn't feasible. there will be multiple sets of terms, one per author. 20:26:35 -!- postamar [~postamar@x-132-204-254-138.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has quit [Quit: postamar] 20:26:47 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-23-215.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 20:26:56 you could precompile each set into a fasl containing one bytevector that encodes the table. 20:27:40 That has potential. I wonder if fasls are slowls in that case, like they are in others. 20:27:57 slols 20:28:56 Has anyone a reference to a decent paper showing the merits of GC 20:29:24 In relation to favourable performance trade 20:29:27 off 20:29:40 Guthur: can you imagine working in lisp while using 'eralis all the time? 20:31:02 Guthur: Not a paper, but from what I understand GCs generally handle memory allocation and freeing more efficient than most programmers :) 20:31:26 even optimal use of malloc/free can be much slower than a GC under certain circumstances. 20:31:45 I was just hoping for a little research backing 20:31:51 parus3200 [~user@142-65-113-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:53 http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/2552 20:31:53 -!- Dawgmatix [~dman@c-76-124-9-27.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:31:53 hi 20:32:09 that was cited as an example of how bad GC is 20:32:13 hello parus3200 20:32:17 is there any lisp version for symbian? 20:32:24 TeMPOraL [~user@188.147.130.166.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:32:34 scheme48? 20:32:43 parus3200: ECL should work, especially with the POSIX-compatibility libs 20:32:45 Though the experiment is not very representative 20:33:04 -!- spec`away is now known as mrSpec 20:33:40 Guthur: As I recall Paul Wilson in one of his usually great articles had a reasonable argument in favor of GC. 20:33:59 md1 [~user@chello089173014058.chello.sk] has joined #lisp 20:34:21 Guthur: The main problem seems to be when real-time is required, and although real-time GC algorithms exist, they don't seem to be used very often. 20:34:45 -!- parus3200 [~user@142-65-113-92.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:35:34 cheers beach, I'll have a look 20:36:01 -!- cbeok [~user@216.229.3.105] has left #lisp 20:37:32 Xach, is it 50K of string->integer per author? How many authors? 20:38:03 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0063-25-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:38:14 Xach, any good reason why you don't just use a sqlite3 binding or something. Is that too slow as well? 20:38:54 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0063-25-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 20:39:02 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@rrcs-67-78-79-54.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 20:40:58 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsler113.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:43:41 psilord: How is your compiler project going? 20:44:18 beach: Well enough. :) I'm nearly done implementing the master/worker codes to run the distributed compilation algorithms I'm experimenting with. 20:44:48 psilord: What are you compiling? 20:46:06 sellout: Right now they are toy-ish problems concerning things like live-variable analysis, dataflows, things like that. They are computational pieces. 20:47:02 Ultimately, it'll be a compiler/annotation engine for lisp and probably C. 20:47:27 *beach* always thought it was a mistake not to write GCC in Lisp. 20:47:52 beach: I will never write a compiler in a non-symbolic processing language again! 20:48:12 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-102-238.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:48:33 psilord: promise? 20:49:07 beach, does perl count? I've written a couple in that. It looks like lisp if you squint and drink heavily. 20:50:22 -!- benny [~benny@i577A8D1C.versanet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:51:29 beach: but yeah, I promise. Just the thought of writing a compiler in a nonsymbolic language makes me very unhappy. 20:52:16 beach: but then it'd be lisp taking the flack for GCC's being slow all these years 20:52:22 psilord: It's a very ambitious project. I wish you good luck! 20:52:27 benny [~benny@i577A8D1C.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 20:52:37 hefner: I could live with that. 20:52:39 -!- Hun [~hun@95-90-225-75-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:52:43 Joreji [~thomas@86-084.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 20:53:08 beach: Thanks! It is ambitious, for sure! Most of my time lately has been spent figuring out how to decompose what I want into generic parts I can assemble creatively. 20:55:15 tompa [~tompa@h59ec27fb.sehjjak.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:26 beach, some parts really can't be distributed, like lexical analysis, but other parts can, like functions can be found, grouped together, and sent to a slave for compilation and annotation. 20:57:05 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-128-62.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:57:56 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 20:58:20 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 20:58:23 psilord: are you targeting multi-core cmputers? 21:00:05 what's the different between having and not having :execute in eval-when ? 21:00:21 beach: in what sense? In the sense of code vectorization and auto-parallelization of dataflow? 21:01:15 s/different/difference 21:01:49 psilord: Well, you said "distributed" which usually means communicating over a network with different processes so different address spaces, with all the problems that imply. With shared-memory models like multi-core, those problems don't exist. 21:04:17 beach: Ok, I understand. The compiler itself is a distributed process running on multicore machines with each process tied to a core. Processes can come and go. 21:04:49 beach: I had to discern if you mean the compiler was altering the comiled program to be targetted for multi-core machines, or if the compiler itself was. It is the latter. 21:05:14 to be more clear, difference betwen (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :load-toplevel) ....) and (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :load-toplevel :execute) ....) as top form ? 21:05:39 psilord: OK, thanks. 21:06:04 segmond [~seg@adsl-99-103-115-52.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:07:16 beach: The intitial version of the compiler will be naive in terms of the quality of translation. This is simply because the annotations will be so extensive, I don't want to solve excruciatingly hard problems of annotating things like strength reduction at every step. :) 21:09:03 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0063-25-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:09:52 enthymeme [~kraken@130.166.209.0] has joined #lisp 21:10:10 beach: Although, while optimization passes are left out in the initial revision, I will try very hard to make it so they can be added back in in a reasonable manner. 21:11:00 It all sounds reasonable. Please keep us up to date about progress. 21:11:43 -!- CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:12:25 intronic [~user@58.7.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:13:03 beach: Sure thing. 21:13:10 -!- md1 [~user@chello089173014058.chello.sk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:13:22 Anyway, it's bedtime for me. See you in the morning! 21:13:28 later! 21:16:39 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-94-192.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 21:18:02 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-41-204.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:18:02 -!- pers [~user@87.sub-75-220-12.myvzw.com] has left #lisp 21:18:11 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit:     (xchat 2.4.5  )] 21:18:25 HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 21:18:58 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:19:08 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:03 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:23:23 cbeok [~user@216.229.3.105] has joined #lisp 21:23:31 -!- sellout [~greg@2002:4855:eb9a:0:21d:4fff:fefe:c504] has quit [Quit: sellout] 21:24:41 -!- nha [~prefect@p3E9E6DB7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:25:15 -!- Davidbrcz 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quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:49:53 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-23-215.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:51:25 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@cs181217253.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:51:30 sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:52:52 -!- cbeok [~user@216.229.3.105] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:53:26 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-181-25.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit:  Unicode shall reign forever! ] 21:53:58 xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-181-25.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:54:19 psilord1, what are you compiling to what? 21:55:29 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754d97.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:56:28 -!- Soulman [~knute@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 21:56:33 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:56:57 Nshag [~none@AClermont-Ferrand-551-1-68-30.w92-143.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:00:00 -!- bozhidar` [~user@212.50.14.187] has left #lisp 22:02:07 gonzojive [~red@adsl-76-203-75-159.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:05:59 roffe_ [~roffe@cm-84.215.145.23.getinternet.no] has joined #lisp 22:06:38 abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has joined #lisp 22:07:49 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 22:07:51 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:08:23 -!- roffe [~roffe@cm-84.215.145.23.getinternet.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:08:23 -!- roffe_ is now known as roffe 22:09:45 ve [~a@smith.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 22:10:18 -!- pbalogh [~pbalogh@12.14.38.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:12:32 -!- cmsimon [~iamcms2@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [] 22:12:35 -!- seg_ is now known as segmond 22:12:40 TeMPOraL` [~user@188.147.130.166.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has joined #lisp 22:12:54 -!- joga [joga@rikki.fi] has quit [Changing host] 22:12:54 joga [joga@unaffiliated/joga] has joined #lisp 22:13:25 -!- TeMPOraL [~user@188.147.130.166.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:13:46 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has left #lisp 22:14:17 billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 22:19:05 psilord1: that has very little hack value. 22:19:37 -!- astalla [~astalla@93-36-226-168.ip62.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 22:21:42 -!- TeMPOraL` is now known as TeMPOraL 22:23:32 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 22:24:31 -!- roffe [~roffe@cm-84.215.145.23.getinternet.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:27:41 -!- intronic [~user@58.7.233.220.static.exetel.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:30:11 -!- aw [~aw@p5DDA93A4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.3-dev] 22:30:24 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quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:27:24 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-140-105.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:28:31 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-140-105.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:29:46 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:31:05 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@82-171-137-254.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:31:54 mindCrime [~chatzilla@nat/redhat/x-jvpqjvkdgnxxsuuc] has joined #lisp 23:33:27 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-205-190.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:34:41 *Xach* tries to find that japanese animated GIF slime screencast 23:35:21 *Xach* finds 23:35:43 ve [~a@smith.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 23:35:50 wow, i never knew it had audio. http://www.unixuser.org/~euske/vnc2swf/slime.html 23:37:54 benny` [~benny@i577A7A21.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 23:38:01 -!- benny [~benny@i577A8D1C.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:43:04 eehw, the recording badly misses HPF. 23:45:58 -!- benny` is now known as benny 23:46:41 nus: what's hpf? 23:47:21 High Pass Filter, pardon my TLA. 23:47:27 -!- fnordus [~dnall@70.70.0.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:47:41 fnordus [~dnall@70.70.0.215] has joined #lisp 23:50:41 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 23:50:56 necroforest [~jarred@pool-108-56-179-132.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:54:48 -!- HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:55:06 -!- Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:56:03 aw|rerun [~aw@ip-90-186-77-171.web.vodafone.de] has joined #lisp 23:56:08 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 23:56:40 Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:56:47 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.75.12] has joined #lisp 23:56:48 cbeok [~user@lnk2-themill-gw.binary.net] has joined #lisp 23:57:07 I use sbcl, where should I start with threads? 23:57:17 any tutorials? 23:57:41 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 23:57:58 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:58:03 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:58:04 wakeup: the manual explains what's available. 23:58:18 bordeaux-threads? 23:58:29 the sbcl manual has a section on threads. 23:58:50 -!- aw [~aw@p5DDA93A4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:59:00 alright I'll read it 23:59:02 wakeup: I'm not sure anyone should ever start with threads. 23:59:15 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:59:57 Fare: thats good.