00:00:29 Must have been byte-consed-between-gc then. 00:01:03 -!- Paraselene_ [~Not@79-67-148-135.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Disconnected by services] 00:01:06 Paraselene [~Not@79-67-148-135.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 00:01:15 felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has joined #lisp 00:01:23 foom: I guess we could use it for code and unboxed pages only. 00:01:34 mae_tae [~7960fb0e@gateway/web/freenode/x-jggnggaeryxuqqlq] has joined #lisp 00:01:53 hello people 00:02:10 can we integrate lisp in any programming like VB example 00:02:23 -!- bizarrefish [~lee@host86-146-52-27.range86-146.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:03:12 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: A subtle thought that is in error may yet give rise to fruitful inquiry that can establish truths of great value.] 00:03:46 -!- cmsimon [~iamcms2@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [] 00:06:03 bizarrefish [~lee@host86-146-52-27.range86-146.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 00:06:14 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:06:33 setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:08:08 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 00:12:52 hypercube31 [~hypercube@253.240.33.65.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:13:44 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:13:55 mae_tae: ECL is meant to be embedded, with a C interface 00:14:42 hi Phoodus, you're also a lisp enthusiast, hehehehe 00:15:02 ah ok 00:15:49 blbrown [~Berlin@75.139.142.224] has joined #lisp 00:18:15 silenius [~silenius@rrcs-64-183-24-50.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:18:23 -!- quodlibetor [~user@146.95.31.248] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:20:43 -!- Joreji [~thomas@86-084.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:20:44 -!- blbrown [~Berlin@75.139.142.224] has quit [Client Quit] 00:22:34 bohunm [~mbohun@202.124.75.110] has joined #lisp 00:22:52 -!- bohunm [~mbohun@202.124.75.110] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:23:17 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:23:29 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.75.110] has joined #lisp 00:26:34 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 00:27:00 Well, 'meant' is a bit excessive. 00:27:12 I supports embedding of lisp in C, and of C in lisp. 00:27:24 s/I/It/ 00:28:38 pixpop [~pixpop@166.205.137.185] has joined #lisp 00:29:06 -!- pixpop [~pixpop@166.205.137.185] has quit [Client Quit] 00:35:29 true 00:35:43 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.89.7] has joined #lisp 00:36:05 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:36:17 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:37:34 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.75.110] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:38:30 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:40:18 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 00:40:44 just for confirmation, is throw/catch orthogonal to condition handling? 00:41:11 will a catch which wraps an ignore-errors still receive the thrown value? 00:41:48 CLHS doesn't seem to make any connection between the 2 mechanisms, so just making sure 00:41:49 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.75.110] has joined #lisp 00:43:27 blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:44:49 (well, ignore-errors is a bad question since it only traps a subset of conditions) 00:45:13 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-168-152-229.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:45:50 Phoodus: sort of. You'll probably use non-local exits (block/return-from or catch/throw) in condition handlers from time to time. 00:46:11 I mean is catch/throw implemented with conditions or a completely separate mechanism? 00:46:11 But it's got very little to do with catch/throw in C++ or Java. 00:46:25 afaict, it's separate, but not sure 00:48:19 mostly separate (they do interact a bit), except for handler-case, which probably involves something like BLOCK/RETURN-FORM. 00:48:26 (return-from too) 00:48:42 Joreji [~thomas@86-084.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 00:49:03 ok 00:49:12 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:53:03 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p54839F9B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:53:19 lithper1_ [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:53:39 seg_ [~seg@adsl-99-96-207-236.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:54:38 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 00:54:45 -!- Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:57:07 fph [joe@adsl-68-126-19-98.dsl.renocs.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 00:57:19 -!- segmond [~seg@adsl-99-40-252-150.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:57:59 -!- fph [joe@adsl-68-126-19-98.dsl.renocs.pacbell.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:58:14 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.148.170.2] has joined #lisp 00:58:59 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:59:11 fph [joe@adsl-68-126-19-98.dsl.renocs.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 01:02:09 *nurv* good night. 01:02:35 -!- nurv [nurv@83.231.23.128] has quit [] 01:09:41 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:10:47 billstclair [~billstcla@dsl-65-219-212-221.taconic.net] has joined #lisp 01:10:47 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@dsl-65-219-212-221.taconic.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:10:47 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 01:10:57 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 01:13:44 -!- Joreji [~thomas@86-084.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:15:19 Hmm. ccl doesn't compute (expt 2 #c(-2d0 1d0)) very accurately 01:17:58 marko [~marko@74.213.73.173] has joined #lisp 01:18:11 *_3b* gets the same answer from ccl and sbcl 01:18:39 -!- FareWell [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Disconnected by services] 01:18:57 FareWell [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:19:17 FareTower [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 01:19:32 <_3b> and on clisp to 8 or 9 decimal places 01:20:00 Really? ccl 1.5 returns #C(0.19230972430417584D0 -0.15974031883619208D0) 01:20:39 rtoym: Is that a minus sign before the 0.15...? 01:20:49 <_3b> 1.4-r13222M (LinuxX8664) says #C(0.19230972430417587D0 0.15974031883619208D0) 01:21:05 <_3b> (same from 32 bit version though) 01:21:08 The correct answer is cos(log(2))/4 - i*sin(log(2))/4. 01:22:26 ccl 1.5 says the cos(log(2))/4 is 0.19230972534099303 (using 2d0 instead of just 2). 01:22:33 rtoym: does cmucl/x86 do range reduction on sin/cos/tan? 01:23:14 pkhuong: Yes. It starts at something smaller than 2^63 that you've recently changed. 01:23:14 these days, what does cmucl have that sbcl doesn't? 01:23:37 <_3b> quad floats and green threads? 01:23:41 FareWell. Not much. 01:23:56 rtoym, btw, can you test ASDF 2 with cmucl? 01:23:57 That's double-double, not quad-double. 01:24:02 rtoym: is the patch similar? 01:24:10 I'm too lazy to install a 32-bit OS at the time. 01:24:36 hopefully it will Just Work(tm) - can you make test lisp=cmucl ? 01:24:37 FareWell: Sure. Give me a day or too. I don't have very many asdf systems around, though. 01:25:01 clbuild can install a bunch for you 01:25:10 pkhuong: I didn't look at the patch, but the range reduction is very likely different because we do a full reduction using some 1500 bits of pi. 01:25:25 FareWell: I don't have clbuild either. :-) 01:25:39 rtoym: ah right. 01:25:52 we discussed this ~1 year ago (: 01:26:06 We did? I forgot already. 01:27:54 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-94-51.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:27:57 _3b: Your ccl 64bit result doesn't have a negative imaginary part? Mine does (on mac os x). 01:28:11 -!- smik [~siddhant3@175.40.8.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:28:15 <_3b> rtoym: right 01:28:29 rtoym: Mine doesn't either (also 64-bit OS X) 01:28:53 <_3b> and i got same (not negative) on both 32 and 64 versions, i guess i didn't phrase that clearly 01:28:59 _3b, sellout: Really? That's really weird. 01:29:24 <_3b> possibly a regression since i downloaded it? 01:29:46 rtoym, iirc, clbuild is just a wget away 01:30:09 darcs get http://common-lisp.net/project/clbuild/clbuild 01:30:16 next thing, you'll tell me you don't have darcs... 01:30:36 FWIW, cmucl and clisp both return #C(0.19230972534099303d0 -0.1597403190784087d0). I think sbcl is wrong if it agrees with ccl. 01:30:48 rtoym: Mine's actually trunk  pre-1.6. 01:31:08 (You might have to set some variables on clisp. By default, I don't think clisp follows ANSI contagion.) 01:31:09 *_3b* gets positive from clisp 2.44/win32 too 01:31:19 <_3b> ah 01:31:34 rtoym: probably straight from libm. 01:31:50 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.201.177] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 01:32:05 libm can't be that bad, can it? 01:32:33 <_3b> rtoym: though the numbers i get from clisp match yours aside from the sign 01:32:51 -!- c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:32:52 Anyway, if you don't get something very close to cos(log(2))/4 - %i*sin(log(2))/4, then your lisp is wrong. 01:33:28 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-225-199-195.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:33:31 (That's what maxima says the value should be.) 01:33:47 rtoym: well, not straight: we can't rely on complex arithmetic in libm yet. 01:34:09 pkhuong: That's really depressing. 01:35:00 fwiw, http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2%5E%28-2%2Bi%29 shows the imaginary part as positive. 01:35:30 (Not that I think Mathematica is definitive, mind you.) 01:35:40 rme: not that mathematica isn't a total hack. 01:35:59 Oh, dang. I typed in the wrong thing. I meant (expt 2 #c(-2d0 -1d0)). 01:37:24 But ccl still produces answers that are only accurate to about 7-8 places as if it were single precision. 01:37:44 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-197-115.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:37:55 egoz [~Egoz@202.70.51.33] has joined #lisp 01:37:58 rtoym: does it work if you (expt 2d0 ...)? 01:38:03 twopoint718 [~twopoint7@76.210.75.18] has joined #lisp 01:38:17 Yes. 01:38:31 So it's a contagion issue? 01:39:03 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 01:39:07 Probably. 01:39:23 -!- twopoint718 [~twopoint7@76.210.75.18] has left #lisp 01:40:43 abend [~sasha@m7c0e36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 01:40:55 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-127-121.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:40:59 Should probably file a bug report. 01:41:37 -!- curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:42:31 Could be related to http://trac.clozure.com/ccl/ticket/340. 01:42:37 prxq_ [~mommer@f051128171.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 01:43:06 -!- prxq [~mommer@e179201124.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:45:42 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-127-121.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:45:59 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:46:30 -!- myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:46:37 thanks for the bug report. 01:48:45 Could be related. But (log 2d0) is correct. 01:49:35 curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:50:04 rme: speaking of which, is there any blocker to including asdf 2 with ccl? 01:50:12 *rtoym* finds a maxima bug. 01:50:50 FareWell: When you say asdf 2 is ready, I'll put it in the trunk. 01:51:33 it's ready for testing 01:51:54 I mean, beta-testing. 01:52:10 If trunk is where betatesting happens, that's where it should be already, I suppose 01:53:29 I will probably request a refresh with the actual asdf 2 when I bump the version from 1.71X to 2.000 01:53:51 hopefully without any code change, or only a few things to adapt to some platform 01:54:22 (I just did some refactoring of the upgrade-compatible defpackage for the sake of GCL - yuck) 01:54:58 -!- mae_tae [~7960fb0e@gateway/web/freenode/x-jggnggaeryxuqqlq] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:56:10 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-168-128-117.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:57:13 can anyone here help out a lisp newbie to get mod_lisp2 working with just a simple web based example? 01:57:28 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 01:57:47 im missing some stuff and searched all over the web and cant find something useful to atleast get it all working 01:57:50 hypercube31: I suspect most people here would recommend you switch to Hunchentoot 01:57:52 _danb_ [~user@124-168-128-117.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 01:58:10 p_l, ill check it out, i just want something simple where i can get started ya know? 01:58:13 I don't think I recall any new developments regarding mod_lisp, you'd have more luck with FastCGI 01:58:22 hypercube31: then Hunchentoot is your best bet 01:58:35 i dont even know how to install fastcgi, im working on a gentoo system 01:58:37 ok 01:58:39 ill try that first 01:59:25 hypercube31 http://trac.clozure.com/ccl/wiki/WebDevelopment might help you. It probably works with other implementations even if you don't use ccl. 01:59:55 FareWell: You're right. None of my machines have darcs. :-) 02:00:05 ok ill check it out, im an experienced web programmer, but this is seriously throwing me for a loop to get this started 02:00:38 any ecl expert around? 02:01:42 I wonder for XCVB if I should map fasl-grain to .o file and cfasl-grain to .fas file, or fasl-grain to .fas and create a new grain class for .o files. 02:02:08 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 02:02:42 rme: I'm guessing that ticket 340 computes (log (fact 1000) 10d0) as (/ (log (fact 1000)) (log 10d0)), and since (fact 1000) is an integer, log returns a single-float. 02:02:44 minion: tell hypercube31 about clbuild 02:02:44 hypercube31: please look at clbuild: clbuild is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 02:02:53 -!- marko [~marko@74.213.73.173] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:03:47 -!- debiandebian [~chatzilla@ntszok008047.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2/20100222071121]] 02:03:55 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.89.7] has left #lisp 02:04:01 rtoym: I think that's what happens; I remember looking at it at one point, but I must have gotten distracted and wandered off. 02:04:48 rtoym: mmm... that reminds me of something too. 02:04:51 Heh. So many things to do, so many more distractions. 02:05:30 *rtoym* saw that sbcl gcd bug. cmucl of course had the same bug. Amazing that no one found that sooner. 02:06:29 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0153-74-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 02:08:00 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 02:08:51 -!- nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:08:51 rtoym: it was hell to debug too. Another student was using SBCL in an optimisation program, and he had insane results from EQL very rarely. At least it was repeatable, so he inserted print statements until the problem was clearly in rational division. 02:09:32 Ouch. 02:09:58 something like a set containing duplicate values. 02:11:20 *rtoym* found a cmucl sse2 bug when running maxima's testsuite which failed on one test with really bizarre results. 02:11:41 what was it? 02:12:11 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:12:12 Wow. asdf 2 is huge. 02:12:46 I think it was converting a integer to a float which left garbage in the other parts of the register. 02:14:10 oh yeah, we still have that 02:14:13 look for sqrtsd too 02:14:52 rtoym, for some definition of huge 02:14:56 all the one-operand scalar ops are suspect. 02:15:10 it has a configuration DSL and windows support - that makes it large. 02:15:26 all in all, three times the side of ASDF 1, I think. 02:15:48 but much of what's in ASDF 2 was just in other extensions of ASDF 1 and/or random configuration scripts. 02:15:49 pkhuong: sqrtsd? yeah, probably got that wrong too. 02:16:27 It's also a perf bug to boot (: 02:16:27 FareWell: make test lisp=cmucl CMUCL=cmulisp passed all 23 tests. 02:16:30 all in all, I've moved code into ASDF that used to be in other places, and I don't think the overall Lisp code base is bigger 02:16:33 rtoym, woot! 02:17:11 FareWell: huge compared to just asdf.lisp. But there weren't tests before, were there? 02:17:28 blbrown [~Berlin@75.139.142.224] has joined #lisp 02:18:03 some of the tests were there before in the CVS repo 02:18:06 pkhuong: I almost never use single-precision, so I never see these issues. 02:18:18 they are not usually distributed with implementations 02:18:34 rtoym: sd2ss too. 02:18:39 does CMUCL come with asdf 1 these days? 02:18:57 does it have a magic asdf require hook like sbcl does? 02:18:59 rtoym: you still represent complexes as 2 scalars? 02:19:05 FareWell: No. But I'm thinking of adding that. (Along with mk:defsys like ecl does.) 02:19:53 FareWell: Cmucl has the necessary hooks, but asdf never incorporated them, so I load them in my init file. 02:19:59 myu2_ [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 02:20:09 rtoym, if you send it to me, I'll include in asdf 2 02:20:24 pkhuong: You mean packed? Yes. 02:20:34 if you send it to me now, I can send you a revised asdf.lisp for testing 02:20:39 FareWell: Ok. It's on the cliki site somewhere too. 02:20:44 -!- myu2_ [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:20:47 anyone know of a way to deal with darcs repos without having to install ghc and build darcs? I only see 32bit binaries for linux :s 02:20:58 *derrida* is in favor a darcs boycott 02:21:12 wget? 02:21:16 rtoym: if they're packed, and assume higher order bits are zeroed out, you can still have issues without using single floats 02:21:23 derrida: wget! 02:21:33 wget?! :D 02:21:43 did i miss something? hehe 02:22:00 darcs just uses http? 02:22:36 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:22:48 derrida: right. That's why they're prefixed with "http://". 02:22:49 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Quit: palter] 02:22:49 rtoym, may I assume that CMUCL has the hooks, or is there a good reason to support older cmucls that don't? 02:23:27 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 02:23:43 pkhuong: heh, thought there was some magic going on. thank you. 02:23:52 pkhuong: I don't think the vops assume the inputs have the high order bits cleared. But I may have not been very careful about that. 02:24:03 pkhuong: so just wget -r the repo? 02:24:07 derrida: sure. 02:24:15 fair enough :P 02:24:29 you could probably add some flag to exclude all the metadata 02:25:02 rtoym: I can't think of a good test case, unfortunately. 02:25:31 FareWell: Look at the asdf page on cliki. It has what I use. 02:26:41 yup, saw it 02:27:00 FareWell: I don't care if you don't support old versions of cmucl that doesn't have the hooks. I don't expect someone using ancient versions to expect to be able to run the latest and greatest versions of everything. 02:29:37 -!- blbrown [~Berlin@75.139.142.224] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 02:31:12 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:31:26 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 02:32:22 FareWell: The readme file is out of date. There is no getting-started.html. 02:33:49 I'll fix that - can you pull 1.718 and tell me if it works for you? 02:34:10 rtoym: got one (: 02:34:38 pkhuong: Yay! :-( 02:36:33 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 02:37:48 pkhuong pasted "test case for bad SSE convertions" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98855 02:38:46 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:40:55 that's a lot of NOP 02:41:37 FareWell: speed >>> space, so we make sure the data is in a different cache line from the code. 02:42:35 minion: memo for beach: What license covers SICL? I was interested if it would be ok. to mix SACLA and SICL together. 02:42:35 Remembered. I'll tell beach when he/she/it next speaks. 02:45:05 pkhuong: I don't see a problem with cmucl, but I killed the touch-object lines. 02:45:23 FareWell: How do I pull 1.718? (I've never used git before.) 02:46:25 you can just wget it from the website 02:46:37 or use the git clone command listed on the website 02:46:49 rtoym: that'd screw with my screwing up with regalloc :) 02:46:55 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.126.31] has joined #lisp 02:49:58 -!- curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:52:05 amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 02:52:37 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@130.208.212.1] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 02:53:36 FareWell: git clone is a bit slow, but the README is fixed. 02:53:57 FareWell: I put asdf 2 into the ccl trunk. 02:54:32 If I get any bugs, I'm assigning them to you. 02:54:54 cloning git://common-lisp.net/projects/asdf/asdf.git should be faster 02:55:24 pkhuong: So where is the bug? 02:55:53 rme: do I have to create an account? or will reports be sent by mail? 02:56:05 FareWell: I'm mainly kidding. :-) 02:56:12 stassats`, should I list that on the website? 02:58:34 perhaps, i always prefer git://, because it's faster 02:59:15 rtoym: XMM1 is still dirty with #c(1d0 1d0) 02:59:24 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.89.7] has joined #lisp 03:01:13 You mean at 6b3, cvtsi2sd xmm1, rdx is wrong because xmm1 still has the high part as 1d0? 03:01:44 right. 03:01:45 Lithos_ [~chatzilla@DSLPool-net209-213.wctc.net] has joined #lisp 03:01:58 rme_ [~rme@pool-70-106-128-93.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:02:09 -!- dys` [~andreas@krlh-5f7267eb.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:02:17 -!- fph [joe@adsl-68-126-19-98.dsl.renocs.pacbell.net] has left #lisp 03:02:19 abend_ [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has joined #lisp 03:02:34 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-94-51.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:02:34 -!- rme_ is now known as rme 03:02:39 dys` [~andreas@krlh-5f72d4a8.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 03:02:51 -!- tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:02:52 gah, the git:// url uses projects/ whereas the http:// url uses project/ - talk about confusing. 03:03:05 what's the BREAK 9 instruction? 03:03:08 -!- rme [rme@clozure-8BCA4BE1.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout] 03:03:21 tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 03:03:40 FareWell: I'm on darwin, so we use #UD instead of INT. 03:04:00 It's the system we use to signal a trap and run whatever handler must be run. 03:04:34 pkhuong: Ah. I fixed that in cmucl. I always clear out the target register before doing the conversion. 03:04:40 ziggurat [~quassel@173.74.42.166] has joined #lisp 03:05:03 rtoym: I'm trying to build a test case for the suite (; 03:05:10 -!- Lithos [~chatzilla@DSLPool-net209-213.wctc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:05:12 cmiller [~quassel@173.74.42.166] has joined #lisp 03:05:13 -!- Lithos_ is now known as Lithos 03:05:21 -!- ziggurat [~quassel@173.74.42.166] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:05:32 cmiller_ [~quassel@173.74.42.166] has joined #lisp 03:05:38 -!- abend [~sasha@m7c0e36d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:05:39 google isn't very helpful for #UD 03:06:10 FareWell: undefined instruction. Guaranteed to remain so. 03:06:31 ok. 03:06:45 does darwin officially use that as a variant for sysenter? 03:07:10 nope. 03:07:19 It just sucks at delivering INT 3. 03:07:22 Or sucked. 03:07:26 or is it just a SBCL trick to go through SIGILL 03:07:33 -!- cmiller_ [~quassel@173.74.42.166] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:08:40 nasty workaround. 03:08:50 welcome to the wonderful world of OS bugs 03:09:34 *FareWell* arbitrarily declares that a ECL .fas is a CFASL and that a ECL .o is a FASL - at least as far as XCVB is concerned 03:10:52 ziggurat [~quassel@173.74.42.166] has joined #lisp 03:11:01 pkhuong: Hmm. It was fixed, but for some reason it was removed. 03:12:57 Oh, the commit logs say why, but I think it should be put back. There's no guarantee that the high parts are clean. 03:13:08 -!- seg_ is now known as segmond 03:13:19 rtoym: doesn't work for single floats. 03:13:33 -!- ziggurat [~quassel@173.74.42.166] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:13:39 erh, wait, never mind. 03:13:46 Still, it's also a perf bug. 03:14:54 Yeah. But it seems unlikely that converting ints to floats would be the bottle neck. 03:15:40 it might be in one spectral norm ;) 03:16:53 Hmm. Maybe it doesn't need to be. I think cmucl's vops clear the high parts on input if needed. But that's a perf bug too. 03:19:27 -!- silenius [~silenius@rrcs-64-183-24-50.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:28:36 debiandebian [~chatzilla@ntszok016100.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:31:23 -!- egoz [~Egoz@202.70.51.33] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:33:28 chupish [~182ed347@gateway/web/freenode/x-inawlzozctbieyqu] has joined #lisp 03:35:31 -!- rme [rme@clozure-780074C7.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 03:35:31 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-106-128-93.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 03:35:42 hohoho [~hohoho@p4b216c.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:42:25 retupmoca` [~retupmoca@76.235.180.123] has joined #lisp 03:45:31 -!- retupmoca [~retupmoca@adsl-76-236-188-125.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:45:35 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-62-74-76.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:45:50 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.74.203] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:47:44 -!- 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3.6.3/20100401080539]] 04:13:53 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-168-152-229.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:15:14 quodlibetor [~user@ool-18baa8f1.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:16:02 -!- cmiller [~quassel@173.74.42.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:21:25 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:22:45 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-62-74-76.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:23:07 kephas [pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 04:23:07 -!- nowhereman [pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:24:20 -!- fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:26:11 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 04:32:24 fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 04:32:34 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:32:54 ziggurat [~quassel@173.74.42.166] has joined #lisp 04:33:33 enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-242-89-216.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:35:11 -!- ziggurat [~quassel@173.74.42.166] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:37:06 -!- asarch [~asarch@187.132.133.62] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:38:44 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-27-82-248-62-173.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:42:25 wormphlegm [wormphlegm@c-24-17-108-64.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:48:15 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:48:21 Axioplase annotated #98855 "f" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98855#1 04:49:45 that looks like x86 04:51:11 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-52-82-65-64-141.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 04:52:30 Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@d207-6-77-199.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 04:53:14 codeassembly [~givan@188.25.63.222] has joined #lisp 04:53:26 -!- codeassembly [~givan@188.25.63.222] has left #lisp 04:59:04 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 04:59:46 huangjs [~user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has joined #lisp 05:02:10 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-yroxsyoczaxdwfdh] has joined #lisp 05:02:37 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-yroxsyoczaxdwfdh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:02:46 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-fusihuqkmtlsjeee] has joined #lisp 05:04:56 mishoo [~mishoo@host254-107-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 05:06:27 HG` [~HG@xdslff046.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 05:07:15 -!- Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Absquatulandus sum] 05:07:24 -!- dys` is now known as dys 05:09:46 -!- HG` [~HG@xdslff046.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 05:14:53 I'm tempted to rewrite XCVB using Sheeple... should I or should I not? 05:14:57 -!- FareWell is now known as Fare 05:18:01 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-197-115.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:18:08 konr [~user@201.82.133.249] has joined #lisp 05:18:57 Fare: should not 05:19:28 unless you make XCVB into separate binary image or somehow push Sheeple into similar availability as MOP 05:20:57 -!- seangrove [~user@cpe-76-171-251-67.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:21:44 egoz [~Egoz@202.70.51.33] has joined #lisp 05:23:17 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-101-217.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 05:28:22 -!- egoz [~Egoz@202.70.51.33] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:29:03 egoz [~Egoz@202.70.51.33] has joined #lisp 05:29:47 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:32:30 XCVB *is* a separate binary image! 05:32:34 that's the whole point of it 05:37:34 Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-198-91.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:42:52 Davidbrcz [david@212-198-91-47.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 05:44:16 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:44:25 can someone tell me where i can find the actual release date for Clozure CL's 1.5? 05:44:30 i cant find it anywhere 05:44:35 i know 1.4 is oct 2009 05:44:45 or atleast thats what i read randomly on the internet 05:45:07 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 05:45:46 21 April 2010 05:46:10 thanx :) 05:46:24 i looked it up in Wikipedia 05:46:28 oh cool 05:46:34 duh :) thanx lol 05:47:44 (i added it myself when it was released) 05:48:36 oh no doubt? cool 05:48:58 -!- Davidbrcz [david@212-198-91-47.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:49:20 im like super newbie over here 05:50:14 minion: please tell hypercube31 about PCL 05:50:14 hypercube31: please see PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 05:50:36 im lookin at this clozure cl page on the web and im tryin to figure out what is with the ediware.lisp and why its coming from subversion.. i cant find something just explaining whats going on with that 05:50:43 go read this and you will be super expert 05:50:45 i mean i know it has to do with configuring stuff 05:51:10 (thanx for the link, im soaking up all the info i can) 05:51:11 what page? 05:51:26 http://trac.clozure.com/ccl/wiki/WebDevelopment 05:51:37 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 05:52:13 ugh, im an experienced programmer and i feel so dumb when it comes to this, thats why im trying to learn it 05:52:19 "svn co http://bknr.net/svn/ediware" 05:52:50 You could start by learning how to spell "I'm". 05:52:52 i know thats a subversion pull, but i dont know hardly anything about it really besides that it has something maybe to do with configuring asdf? 05:53:16 Zhivago, this is irc dude im not terribly concerned sorry 05:53:32 it doesn't have anything to do with configuring asdf 05:53:33 for clarity ill put in the ' 05:53:41 stassats`, ok then im clueless? 05:53:46 i'm clueless :) 05:53:56 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 05:54:13 ediware is a collection of software written by Edi Weitz 05:54:34 i saw his site and figured he might have been the writer, thanks for confirming that for me 05:54:46 which includes Hunchentoot, the web server 05:54:51 ture 05:54:56 true (ugh cant type its late) 05:55:00 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Quit: later] 05:55:06 minion: clbuild? 05:55:06 clbuild: clbuild is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 05:55:07 phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 05:55:18 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:55:18 HG` [~HG@xdslhl127.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 05:55:20 k 05:56:28 -!- wormphlegm [wormphlegm@c-24-17-108-64.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 05:58:08 ok nm i just had to read through some more things, awesome, thanx for the help guys 05:58:38 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.227] has joined #lisp 06:00:50 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.227] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:03:15 -!- blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-45763541.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:04:00 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:04:26 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 06:09:22 -!- randa [~randa@94.99.50.84.sta.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:12:16 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 06:14:10 plage [~user@a81-84-240-140.static.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 06:14:18 Good morning! 06:14:20 -!- laevus [~marc@196-210-171-56-wrbs-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Quit: off to work] 06:15:09 -!- rrice [~rrice@76.211.6.129] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:16:39 -!- prxq_ [~mommer@f051128171.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:17:52 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 06:18:35 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has joined #lisp 06:21:17 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.201] has joined #lisp 06:22:14 ASau` [~user@77.246.231.213] has joined #lisp 06:23:03 -!- varjagg is now known as varjag 06:23:44 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 06:24:12 Joreji [~thomas@80-225.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 06:24:18 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:24:22 randa [~randa@94.99.50.84.sta.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 06:24:36 -!- lithper1_ [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100423140709]] 06:25:11 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@p4b216c.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:25:35 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 06:26:10 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 06:27:34 Xach: feature request for l1sp: It would be sweet if it implemented opensearch 06:28:13 Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 06:28:32 dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:29:46 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@host254-107-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:31:07 -!- plage [~user@a81-84-240-140.static.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:31:21 ok stupid question (im using gentoo linux) when im inside ccl, how do i quit?? 06:31:28 i cant find it in the manual or anywhere else 06:31:39 press C-d three times 06:31:51 weird 06:31:54 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-104-143.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:31:56 or type (ccl:quit) 06:32:23 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:32:27 Error: Unbound variable: QUIT 06:32:36 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0153-74-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:32:37 thats what i get when i tried the ccl:quit (tried before you mentioned it) 06:32:38 ? 06:32:42 good morning 06:32:53 but ya the 3 cnrtl d's work 06:33:07 oh wait duh nm () 06:33:08 hypercube31: you didn't type what i said 06:33:09 sorry 06:33:17 ya :) i caught it lol 06:33:38 bit of culture shock 06:33:56 stassats`, thanx for being patient 06:34:24 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:34:33 hohoho [~hohoho@p4b216c.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 06:35:18 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 06:37:27 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 06:37:49 -!- TDT [~user@173-17-83-225.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:40:14 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@226.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:41:55 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:49:35 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-198-91.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:50:07 Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-198-230.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 06:52:44 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-99-244.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:53:12 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:55:23 abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 06:55:49 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-104-143.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:56:02 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-89-56.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:58:23 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 06:59:13 mishoo [~mishoo@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:04:22 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:04:44 hello lispers 07:06:25 -!- dysinger [~dysinger@cpe-98-150-133-209.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dysinger] 07:11:05 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@98.142.251.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:12:01 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:14:51 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-242-89-216.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:20:09 jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 07:20:58 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-99-244.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:21:58 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 07:27:54 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 07:30:10 dknight [~knight@adsl-71-142-66-79.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 07:30:54 enthymeme [~kraken@76.194.213.146] has joined #lisp 07:32:45 -!- dknight is now known as knight_ 07:32:47 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 07:33:02 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 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#lisp 07:49:23 lemoinem [~swoog@66.51.250.124] has joined #lisp 07:54:20 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 07:54:39 -!- randa [~randa@94.99.50.84.sta.estpak.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:57:06 randa [~randa@94.99.50.84.sta.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 08:06:37 Joreji [~thomas@86-084.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 08:07:39 -!- toxygen [toxygen@stip-static-98.213-81-186.telecom.sk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:08:56 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 08:21:54 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 08:22:29 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:26:51 hlavaty [~user@77-22-102-139-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:32:07 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757058.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:35:56 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:36:38 hello from ELS :) 08:36:49 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 08:38:08 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 08:38:26 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 08:43:33 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@76.194.213.146] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 08:44:15 carlocci [~nes@93.37.212.53] has joined #lisp 08:45:03 reav0 [~reav0@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 08:47:19 johanbev [~johanbev@136.80-203-45.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 08:52:34 hi fe[nl]ix (: 08:52:45 hello antifuchs :) 08:54:30 yay for ELS 08:54:35 I hope you're having fun 08:55:48 I am :) 08:56:41 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.65.161.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 08:56:47 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-198-230.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:57:13 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-171-4.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 08:57:27 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:58:03 kent pitman's doing the keynote 08:58:47 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757058.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:59:32 galdor [galdor@def92-10-88-162-192-107.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:00:33 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:00:46 -!- emacs-dwim [~user@pool-173-70-173-147.nwrknj.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:04:27 -!- reav0 [~reav0@212.88.117.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:04:45 reav0_ [~reav0@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 09:05:14 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-35-126.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 09:05:50 -!- knight_ [~knight@adsl-71-142-66-79.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:06:50 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-32-128.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:07:55 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 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has joined #lisp 09:28:31 -!- dysinger [~dysinger@cpe-98-150-133-209.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 09:29:10 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.75.110] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:29:18 Guthur [~michael@host86-137-237-51.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:30:01 -!- debiandebian [~chatzilla@ntszok016100.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:30:26 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 09:33:44 Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 09:33:47 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-252-197.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:34:13 reav0__ [~reav0@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 09:35:19 just read his wikipedia entry. Is he the only person from x3j13 that still actively uses lisp? 09:35:35 -!- reav0_ [~reav0@212.88.117.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:36:54 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@cpe90-146-32-187.liwest.at] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 09:37:17 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 09:38:55 myrkraverk [~johann@h.freysteinn.com] has joined #lisp 09:38:57 -!- myrkraverk [~johann@h.freysteinn.com] has quit [Changing host] 09:38:57 myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 09:39:24 somecodehere [~ingvar@77-233-95-4.televork.ee] has joined #lisp 09:39:39 leo2007: Weinreb? 09:42:09 stassats`: anybody else? 09:43:33 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:55:33 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:55:58 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 09:58:13 -!- dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:58:33 nurv [nurv@83.231.89.156] has joined #lisp 09:58:40 Morning. 09:59:44 who owns www.lisp.org 10:00:12 ALU 10:00:49 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 10:03:56 reav0___ [~reav0@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 10:06:27 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:06:28 -!- reav0__ [~reav0@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:06:33 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.34] has joined #lisp 10:07:49 cmsimon [~iamcms2@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 10:08:48 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:11:56 it seems a bit ugly. 10:14:14 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:14:21 I was looking at Weinreb's blog and he said 'Now look at www.lisp.org. This will be vastly improved shortly, but the point is that it is yet another reflection of the same attitude issue.' 10:15:39 pix4 [~pixel@p4FC57741.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:16:20 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:17:01 The problem is they are probably unwilling to pay a proper designer, and computer programmers/scientists often make terrible designers. 10:17:01 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.201] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:18:50 i wonder why people think everyone will like their background color 10:19:15 everyone/anyone 10:19:28 are they not make any money? I mean how expensive can that be. 10:22:14 Needs a little less green component 10:22:56 actually nope, just more red 10:23:24 i prefer simply white for text 10:23:32 Oh wait no I was right the first time 10:23:46 Damn complicate GImp colour sliders 10:24:15 you can't lose with black text on white background 10:24:45 Black on slightly creme colour is my preferred 10:24:56 like in old books? 10:25:13 I suppose 10:25:14 it's a great 1995-ish look! 10:25:36 if they removed the green they get a nice #ffffa3 10:25:57 Which is close to what I have set on my desktop for text spaces 10:26:03 the problem with colours is that they look different on different displays 10:26:35 Yuuhi [benni@p5483A0F9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:28:00 *stassats`* used black colour theme for emacs in the past 10:30:56 -!- Guthur [~michael@host86-137-237-51.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:31:33 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.65.161.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 10:31:52 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.65.161.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 10:32:17 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:32:24 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.65.161.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Client Quit] 10:35:27 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:37:07 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:38:56 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.67.33] has joined #lisp 10:39:09 hi, if I define a type with cffi as (defctype boolean :false :true), and then a function with (defcfun "foo" boolean) will the call to (foo) return :false/:true or 0/1 ? 10:42:55 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.237] has joined #lisp 10:43:42 knight_ [~knight@adsl-71-142-66-79.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 10:47:49 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@80-235-108-238-dsl.kjj.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 10:51:03 -!- luis [~luis@nhop.r42.eu] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 10:53:10 np, just found! 10:54:10 dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:54:16 what's the fast way do copy simple-base-string to a mmaped region on SBCL? 10:54:29 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-214-244.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:54:33 fast, and not too low-level 10:55:08 TDT [~user@173-17-83-225.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 10:56:57 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:59:16 ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 11:01:44 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:01:44 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:02:42 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 11:10:30 luis [~luis@nhop.r42.eu] has joined #lisp 11:15:08 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@80-235-108-238-dsl.kjj.estpak.ee] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 11:17:07 wedgeV [~wedge@cpe90-146-32-187.liwest.at] has joined #lisp 11:17:45 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@cpe90-146-32-187.liwest.at] has quit [Client Quit] 11:23:31 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:25:56 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 11:26:38 HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 11:27:13 wedgeV [~wedge@cpe90-146-32-187.liwest.at] has joined #lisp 11:31:49 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@42.176.250.195.sta.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 11:33:43 debiandebian [~chatzilla@ntszok016100.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:35:15 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:35:42 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 11:40:02 -!- debiandebian [~chatzilla@ntszok016100.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:43:05 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.212.53] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 11:43:16 -!- dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:46:33 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0153-74-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 11:47:50 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 11:47:51 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 11:51:59 -!- Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@d207-6-77-199.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: I love my HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-] 11:52:00 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@42.176.250.195.sta.estpak.ee] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 11:53:39 pcl says 'The other key rule of thumb is that each file should contain exactly one IN-PACKAGE form'. 11:53:49 dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:54:36 I generally follow that convention. but in a file where I have defpackage, I usually have two in-packages. 11:54:43 stray_hound__ [~stray@c-24-245-50-140.hsd1.wi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:54:58 -!- kvsari [~kvsari@203.171.93.21.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:55:02 i have zero in-package in a file with defpackage 11:55:22 you should not have defpackage form and use of defined package in the same file 11:55:24 and slime seems to recognise them correctly. 11:55:31 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@42.176.250.195.sta.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 11:55:42 stassats`: I have the first line (in-package :common-lisp-user) 11:55:54 gozek [~quassel@85.52.166.111] has joined #lisp 11:56:25 jdz: any particular reason? 11:56:34 kvsari [~kvsari@203.171.93.21.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has joined #lisp 11:58:03 -!- bgs000 [znc@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:58:06 clhs defpackage 11:58:17 anyway, read the Notes section 11:59:48 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:00:09 jdz: thanks. I have moved that into a separate file. 12:00:45 i think i vaguely remember there being issues with compile time environment / file compilation and packages 12:01:00 but cannot immediately see anything relevant in the spec 12:01:49 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:02:12 -!- pix4 [~pixel@p4FC57741.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:03:37 stettber` [stettberge@2001:6f8:1209:f0:216:3eff:fe03:ff] has joined #lisp 12:03:40 -!- stettberger [stettberge@2001:6f8:1209:f0:216:3eff:fe03:ff] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:04:17 anyway, files containing stuff in particular package depend on package definition. thus if package definition is in a file that has other stuff, that other stuff also is processed along with defpackage. 12:04:23 kloeri_ [kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has joined #lisp 12:04:23 kind of false dependency 12:04:32 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:04:44 -!- kvsari [~kvsari@203.171.93.21.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:04:44 -!- cYmen_ [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:06:12 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-153-248.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:06:50 -!- kloeri [kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has quit [Ping timeout: 615 seconds] 12:07:36 manuel_ [~manuel@p54B8D56A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:08:14 kvsari [~kvsari@203.171.93.21.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has joined #lisp 12:08:26 -!- manuel_ [~manuel@p54B8D56A.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 12:08:48 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:08:53 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 12:10:44 -!- peddie_ [~peddie@adsl-99-38-151-183.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:11:02 peddie [~peddie@adsl-76-254-67-169.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:13:07 cYmen [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has joined #lisp 12:14:19 -!- kvsari [~kvsari@203.171.93.21.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:15:48 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 12:16:03 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:16:29 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 12:16:33 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 12:22:05 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:23:21 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:23:38 -!- Joreji [~thomas@86-084.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:24:28 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@p4b216c.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:25:13 davertron [~Dave@vt-sb-1.logicsupply.com] has joined #lisp 12:30:22 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:30:32 -!- mgr [~mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:30:47 mgr [~mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 12:33:17 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:39:58 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.34] has joined #lisp 12:41:15 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:42:11 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:42:16 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:43:09 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 12:43:58 -!- varjag is now known as varjagg 12:44:47 I need to run lisp on a remote machine for numerical computation since it is much more powerful. 12:46:32 How do people usually do in such a situation? for example, put the repo in the remote machine and use tramp to access it? 12:46:36 suggestions? 12:46:46 leo2007: "ssh remotemachine; screen -S project" 12:47:17 I'm following. 12:47:50 -!- HG` [~HG@xdslhl127.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: HG`] 12:48:33 HG` [~HG@xdslhl127.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 12:48:43 I can connect to swank running on the remote machine. 12:48:49 bgs000 [znc@57o9.org] has joined #lisp 12:49:08 leo2007: I usually do everything on the remote machine, including emacs. 12:50:04 i see, that would seem simpler. 12:51:04 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@42.176.250.195.sta.estpak.ee] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 12:52:03 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 12:55:16 How do you get the command line arguments under CCL? 12:55:23 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 12:55:24 I couldn't find it in the docs 12:55:35 Xach: seems the machine delete all user processes after logout so screen won't survive. 12:55:58 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 12:56:11 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 12:56:27 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 12:56:32 leo2007: so how do you expect to keep your lisp running then? 12:56:39 z0d: cl-launch has info about that 12:56:57 leo2007: and what do you mean by "logout"? 12:57:11 leo2007: you could use buildapp to copy over a pre-built single-file Lisp program to operate on the data files you copy over! 12:57:26 jdz: I keep the ssh running. 12:57:58 keep the connection active. 12:58:21 then you don't need screen, that's all 13:00:20 Xach: thanks. I should have known! 13:00:41 z0d: so how do you get them? 13:01:56 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440232.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: hugod] 13:02:13 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:02:36 I'm looking at it right now 13:03:12 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:05:28 (ccl:command-line-arguments) 13:05:33 how tricky! 13:08:58 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 13:09:14 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757058.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:10:33 mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has joined #lisp 13:13:06 Xach: will build app include ffi libs? 13:13:20 for example gsll 13:13:35 z0d: you might also be interested in CCL::*UNPROCESSED-COMMAND-LINE-ARGUMENTS* 13:13:59 z0d: it will do the parsing of CCL implementation specific options for you 13:14:11 leo2007: no. 13:14:28 cl-launch uses another trick for that, relying on the wrapper script to always use -- 13:14:28 leo2007: i don't know what will happen in that case. i'd love to hear success or failure stories about it. 13:15:04 leo2007, I have vague projects to have XCVB handle that case 13:15:44 -!- xinming_ is now known as xinming 13:16:45 i am thinking of writing the code in local machine and have cron sync to remote machine 13:16:49 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:17:15 have scripts in remote that builds and test the code 13:17:22 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 13:18:08 does it sound reasonable? 13:18:45 i can locally test less intensive computations. 13:19:47 leo2007: I have everything in git and push from time to time. 13:20:42 leo2007: Not sure if emacs+tramp is an option? I'm using sshfs btw. 13:22:45 pkhuong: do you set up the remote machine to automatically run the code when there's new push? 13:25:23 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:26:10 the downside with tramp is sometimes it freezes at Tramp: Waiting for prompts from remote shell 13:26:22 and then I have to kill the ssh process 13:26:46 sellout [~greg@2002:4855:eb9a:0:21d:4fff:fefe:c504] has joined #lisp 13:27:17 leo2007: nope, just an easy way to sync and have backups of my repo. 13:27:18 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:28:08 i see. 13:29:14 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:29:24 billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:29:28 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has joined #lisp 13:30:12 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 13:30:24 lharc: will your approach make C-c C-k in slime work? 13:30:42 -!- nurv [nurv@83.231.89.156] has quit [] 13:32:23 -!- vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:32:43 Fare: I know cl-launch and I use it 13:33:57 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 13:34:17 z0d: whoa, a second user of cl-launch! 13:34:26 eval (mapc #'char-upcase '(#\a #\b)) 13:34:35 no eval bot anymore? 13:35:07 there never was any. 13:35:29 are you sure? maybe it was #scheme then 13:35:48 shouldn't the above expression return (#\A #\B) ? 13:36:20 z0d: no 13:36:21 clhs mapc 13:36:29 z0d: that would be mapcar 13:36:34 oh damn 13:36:37 thanks 13:36:38 http://l1sp.org/cl/mapc 13:38:17 *Fare* has to add a new traversal to XCVB to support ECL. 13:39:29 -!- gozek [~quassel@85.52.166.111] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:39:49 nikodemus [~nikodemus@213.13.106.1] has joined #lisp 13:41:04 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@213.13.106.1] has quit [Client Quit] 13:42:13 Joreji [~thomas@86-084.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:45:41 vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has joined #lisp 13:46:01 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-89-56.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:46:19 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 13:46:22 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-gocrcskdmvmaizbt] has joined #lisp 13:49:48 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:50:00 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 13:50:08 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 13:50:40 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:54:09 gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 13:54:31 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 13:55:07 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:55:37 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-168-128-117.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:55:40 Fare: just read about xcvb. 13:56:06 leo2007: yes it works because I'm sshfs from the dev-machine to the deploy-machine where the code lies. On the deploy machine the code/files are populated by git-clone, so when I'm done editing remotely, I'll git-push from the deploy-machine to the repo-machine. (Kind of backwards, but guess it saves me some steps, or not). 13:56:09 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 13:58:04 laynor [~ale@109.76.124.101] has joined #lisp 13:59:05 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:59:49 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 13:59:57 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 14:00:09 is there a way to tell asdf where to put fasl files? (I don't like to have them in my sources directory) 14:00:34 laynor: the latest and greatest asdf2 will segregate them automagically. 14:00:50 Xach: is it ready to use? 14:01:06 laynor: Fare thinks so (he is the maintainer) 14:01:55 yup. asdf 2 is pretty much ready, apart from whatever implementation-specific tweaks vendors will send. 14:02:15 e.g. yesterday rtoym had me add a REQUIRE hook for CMUCL. 14:02:21 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 14:03:06 and the day before I did quite some hacking to support GCL package madness. 14:03:21 I'm using sbcl, is asdf 2 working well with it, and where can I get it? 14:03:21 package AND pathname madness 14:03:31 yes, that's what I'm mainly using 14:03:36 at home and at work 14:03:44 you can get it on our web site. 14:04:01 common-lisp.net/project/asdf/ 14:04:50 speaking of which... could a SBCL maintainer commit ASDF 2 to SBCL ? 14:05:09 Fare: I found your email confusing in places. 14:05:32 let me find a specific spot 14:06:15 Fare: should I just get the tarball file cited in the 'Getting it' section or get it from git? 14:06:24 Fare: ah yes, "a user-configurable source registry system for finding systems"...it would be nice to know how that differs from the current user-configurable source registry system. 14:09:13 Xach, is the manual unsatisfactory? 14:09:32 Xach: sorry about the confusion. Where may I improve things? 14:09:48 the *central-registry* is still supported 14:09:55 In ccl, asdf:*asdf-revision* returns 1.366 14:10:05 In sbcl 1.34 it returns nil 14:10:07 Fare: Well, if you are giving a laundry-list of reasons for people to find asdf2 better than asdf1, it would be good to differentiate where the short summary seems to indicate no differentiation,. 14:10:53 Fare: the *central-registry* participates in the asdf1 customization system, but it's not the only system-finding customization thing. 14:11:53 Fare: i mean asdf:*system-definition-search-functions* 14:12:01 Fare: To add asdf2 to cmucl, do I only need the asdf.lisp file? 14:12:07 Xach, it's still there, too 14:12:18 its default value has changed, is all 14:12:26 Fare: yes, but it's hard for me to see why "a user-configurable source registry system" is a plus for asdf2 14:12:26 rtoym, yup 14:12:27 -!- ASau` [~user@77.246.231.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:12:47 Fare: how is it better or nicer than that similar-sounding feature in asdf1? 14:13:08 Xach, it greatly simplifies the distribution of image-building scripts from the distribution of libraries. 14:13:15 Fare: Ok. When do you think asdf2 will be "officially" released? 14:13:19 Fare: How? 14:13:32 Xach, in a sense, it *is* that feature from asdf1, with a nice default value. 14:13:48 rtoym, later this month, based on feedback from vendors 14:14:21 Fare: Ok, it would cause me less confusion if you said "A new default value for *s-d-s-f*, which is better because [it eliminates problem XYZ from asdf1 | enables nice capability ABC in asdf2]" 14:14:33 Xach: before, whoever wrote an image-preparation script had to know where the systems were 14:14:40 now he can rely on the user to set it up 14:14:57 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:15:11 the recursion feature is also nice, no need to setup link farms anymore (you still can though) 14:15:44 Xach, I didn't expect many of my readers to know about s-d-s-f and that would have confused THEM. 14:16:41 Fare: I would rather see substance than sales. 14:16:46 the size of my build scripts and asdf patches at ITA has decreased by a few hundred lines. 14:17:17 Fare: and a little credit for knowing how asdf works currently, some attempt at persuasion about how the new way is better. 14:17:54 the new way is mostly the same as the old way, except with fewer bugs, fewer portability issues, fewer performance bugs, and a user-configurable thing. 14:18:18 assuming the fewer * bugs part is uncontroversial, 14:18:21 where to see a list of new features in asdf2? 14:18:28 remains the configurability thing. 14:18:48 I contend it's a vast improvement because it decouples application distribution from library distribution. 14:18:51 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-155-194-204.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:18:57 and user preferences 14:19:50 An oracle makes sense for that kind of thing. 14:20:01 the application writer can avoid thinking where the libraries are, and the library distributor (dpkg, clbuild, etc.) can configure them once and for every application. 14:20:13 yet, settings can be easily overridden where needed 14:20:33 leo2007, the manual has a FAQ about differences between ASDF 1 and ASDF 2 14:20:50 I should probably copy this conversation and improve the manual based on it 14:21:10 Fare: You might use it to improve your discussion with implementors. 14:21:16 of course 14:21:20 Xach: appreciated 14:21:29 Fare: thanks and sorry to miss that. 14:21:31 They are different from "normal" users. 14:21:45 When in danger or in doubt, after the user in such a way that reply can be automated. :) 14:22:08 er, s/after/ask/ 14:22:18 Fare: which version should (asdf:asdf-version) display? 14:23:21 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:23:35 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:24:00 -!- HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:24:13 Hmm, is there a CL operation that maps naturally to ftruncate? 14:24:42 I'd like double a file's size and zero-fill the new space, hopefully quickly. 14:25:32 open :if-exists :supersede / close? 14:25:36 Xach: (setf (file-position ? 14:25:42 Xach: set the file-position to the double of size 14:25:44 ah, not in that way, no 14:26:06 Xach: and write one 0 byte 14:26:20 I thought you could setf file-length, but apparently not 14:26:40 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 14:27:28 laynor, "1.718" is the latest 14:27:37 fe[nl]ix: Do you know how consistent that behavior is across implementations? The spec does not seem very prescriptive about that situation. 14:27:48 unless you're using CMUCL or ECL, 1.717 is identical. 14:28:49 HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:28:57 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 14:29:18 Xach: I can't see why it shouldn't work 14:29:39 it's basic OS and file system usage 14:29:50 Fare: alright, got the right stuff :) 14:29:52 Fare: 'Controlling where ASDF saves compiled files', this means that swank-loader can saved in a different directory, right? 14:30:05 fe[nl]ix: How reassuring :) 14:30:29 Xach: it's simple enough that you can test it 14:30:30 when I install slime as root, I often forget to compile that file. 14:31:15 leo2007, yeah, this is independent from swank-loader 14:31:36 leo2007, though hopefully, if/when every implementation has asdf2, swank will at long last use it. 14:32:54 asdf2 stole some bits from swank, so that's only fair. 14:33:49 excellent! Fare anything I need to pay attention to when use asdf2 with ccl? 14:34:43 fe[nl]ix: Tested, and it does not work. 14:34:45 leo2007, hopefully it will be included in trunk soon. Otherwise, CCL is part of the things I test regularly at home and at work. 14:35:11 Xach: interesting 14:35:25 fe[nl]ix: in sbcl, using a large file-position just seems to put you at the end of the file. 14:35:35 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 14:35:50 Xach: that's a bug, then 14:35:50 fe[nl]ix: e.g. setting it to 50 on a 25-byte file and writing a 0 just puts 0 at position 26 in the file. 14:36:09 I'm reassured! 14:36:26 -!- Joreji [~thomas@86-084.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:36:31 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 14:37:08 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-252-197.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 14:37:14 fe[nl]ix: I think there are ways to fix the bug that don't involve implementing the semantics you described. 14:37:26 fe[nl]ix: e.g. by returning false from the two-arg file position 14:37:26 -!- jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit [Quit: Boot me gently] 14:37:46 you can actually write the required amount of zeros at the end 14:38:25 -!- kloeri_ is now known as kloeri 14:38:48 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-214-244.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:39:03 but seek()ing beyond the end and writing a byte works in C 14:39:13 I'm having a little problem with asdf 2: http://paste.lisp.org/display/98867 14:39:19 fe[nl]ix: Sure, so does ftruncate(). 14:39:35 and if you have a nice file system, it won't actually write anything to disc 14:39:57 fe[nl]ix: hence my question about anything in CL naturally mapping to ftruncate... 14:40:05 Xach, (cffi:define-foreign-blah "ftruncate" ...) 14:40:13 does iolib have a ftruncate interface? 14:40:23 Fare: foreigners aren't natural! 14:40:38 damn foreigners! 14:40:49 Fare: not ATM 14:41:08 Xach: you'll never take the metaphor as far as SB-ALIEN (: 14:41:42 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:42:09 Fare: I appreciate your effort behind asdf and xcvb. Thank you. 14:42:30 There are some CL things that have fairly natural mappings to Unix features, like :if-exists :error and the O_EXCL option to open(). I can't think of anything for ftruncate(), but I still discover new things... 14:47:08 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:47:21 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:49:13 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:49:50 Xach, they can become naturalized, though... http://crasch.livejournal.com/914885.html 14:50:03 leo2007, that makes two of us, I suppose 14:50:21 any clue on how to solve my problem with asdf? 14:50:58 -!- eldragon [~eldragon@84.79.67.254] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:51:39 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 14:52:45 has something changed in slime, when I run slime-documentation on swank:*macroexpand-printer-bindings*, it only takes everything after : 14:52:51 -!- Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@2001:ba8:1f1:f0ed:216:5eff:fe00:16b] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:53:07 eldragon [~eldragon@84.79.67.254] has joined #lisp 14:53:10 Fare: there should be a CL chart like that, except with questions about how strong your references are and which generation, etc. 14:53:15 Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@2001:ba8:1f1:f0ed:216:5eff:fe00:16b] has joined #lisp 14:53:16 i.e. it only shows Documentation for the symbol *MACROEXPAND-PRINTER-BINDINGS*: 14:53:34 Woot! Looks like I'm going to interview Hal Abelson for Code Quarterly. Anything you guys think I should ask him about? 14:54:05 gigamonkey: excellent. 14:54:28 face-to-face? 14:54:36 That's the plan. 14:55:51 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:56:16 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:57:08 leo2007: *macroexpand-printer-bindings* is accessible from the package where slime-documentation is run 14:57:39 so it is printed without package qualifiers 14:58:43 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:58:56 stassats`: I am in a different package so slime-documentation complains No documentation. 14:59:03 enn [~eli@codeanddata.com] has joined #lisp 14:59:11 leo2007 pasted "s-d" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98870 14:59:18 because there is no documentation? 14:59:19 it says that. 15:00:03 i think it's telling the truth 15:00:06 stassats`: sorry for that. 15:00:13 -!- enn [~eli@codeanddata.com] has left #lisp 15:00:22 btw, i applied your patch yesterday 15:00:27 I should check the source first. 15:00:29 tantann [tt@unaffiliated/samuel9999] has joined #lisp 15:00:40 stassats`: thanks. I saw it. 15:01:02 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 15:01:47 Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 15:02:29 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 15:05:50 lithper1_ [~chatzilla@216.214.176.130] has joined #lisp 15:05:57 huangjs` [~user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has joined #lisp 15:05:58 -!- huangjs [~user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:06:17 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-11-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:06:23 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:09:30 -!- Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:10:54 Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 15:11:33 Fare: do you know if asdf 2 works correctly on sbcl/windows? I can't load any system - they load correctly using sbcl's asdf 15:11:39 nurv [nurv@62.32.131.141] has joined #lisp 15:11:52 Hi. 15:12:53 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 15:13:08 maden [~maden@198.168.103.254] has joined #lisp 15:13:23 -!- lharc [~shrek@88.131.67.194] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:14:55 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 15:15:38 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:16:10 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@cpe90-146-32-187.liwest.at] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 15:16:22 laynor, it *should* work, but there might be bugs 15:16:35 laynor, I haven't had the opportunity to test on windows 15:16:50 laynor, can you find-system them? 15:16:52 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 15:17:16 what does (asdf:initialize-source-registry) return? 15:18:21 demmeln [~Adium@p2176560615.tum.vpn.lrz-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 15:18:34 Joreji [~thomas@86-084.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:22:19 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 15:24:53 Hi. So in CL is there a way to manually rebind/unbind a special variable, so instead of (let ((*foo* :new-value)) (do-stuff)) you could write (progn (rebind *foo* :new-value) (do-stuff) (unbind *foo*)). Thinking about it now it would probably not make sense anyway, since there would be big trouble if e.g. (do-stuff) were to signal a condition or the stack would unwind before the call to (unbind ) for some other reason. I'm just curious 15:25:28 qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has joined #lisp 15:25:42 demmeln: no. 15:26:11 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 15:27:08 progv ? 15:27:33 you probably want progv 15:28:26 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:29:21 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:29:32 tfb_ [~tfb@212.183.140.16] has joined #lisp 15:29:39 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 15:29:57 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-fusihuqkmtlsjeee] has left #lisp 15:30:02 -!- plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-118-43.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:30:26 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:30:40 (the reason i started thinking about this was that i have this setup- und cleanup-hook, where i assign a special variable / set if back to nil. So my code looks kind of like this: (defun foo () (setup-hook) (unwind-protect (do-stuff) (cleanup-hook))). I was then thinking about a way to get to the value *foo* had before the call to foo, but i guess the only way would be to store it somewhere else and put it back un cleanup-hook.) 15:31:20 demmeln: how about using let or progv? 15:31:28 -!- reav0___ [~reav0@212.88.117.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:31:29 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:32:02 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-155-194-204.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:32:06 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 15:32:33 reav0___ [~reav0@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 15:32:47 Xach: cant use those with callbacks. 15:33:09 demmeln: why not? 15:34:25 Xach: how would that work? Hm actually the callback could return the symbols and values that i then plug into progv. 15:34:43 -!- abend_ [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:35:23 dysinger [~dysinger@cpe-98-150-133-209.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:35:42 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-155-194-204.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:35:49 Xach: but let wouldn't work since i dont know the special variables i want to rebind in advance. (the callbacks are used as an extension mechanism) 15:35:57 but yeah. progv might just do the trick 15:36:01 thanks :-) 15:36:58 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:37:07 -!- demmeln [~Adium@p2176560615.tum.vpn.lrz-muenchen.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:37:17 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:39:47 -!- dysinger [~dysinger@cpe-98-150-133-209.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:40:23 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440232.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 15:43:40 nyef [~nyef@pool-70-20-53-56.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 15:43:51 Hello all. 15:44:19 nyef, can you test asdf2 on sbcl/windows? 15:44:27 Nope. 15:44:31 :( 15:44:47 I only have one windows system running right now, and it has no free space and hasn't been updated in years. 15:44:51 laynor is having weird problems with it the symptoms of which look impossible to me 15:44:57 Oh? 15:45:08 nyef: hi, you should probably know an efficiently way to copy a simple-base-string to a mmaped region 15:45:19 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:20 right now i'm lying to the compiler 15:45:43 stassats`: bit-bash-copy, maybe? 15:45:44 could sb-kernel:copy-ub8-to-system-area help? 15:45:54 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-gocrcskdmvmaizbt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:46:04 That sounds a bit iffy if you want to retain the box. 15:46:13 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:46:25 -!- dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:46:25 i only want contents 15:46:32 cffi:with-vector-data? 15:46:34 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 15:46:54 At the same time, if you're inclined to go that route, and copy-ub8-to-system-area doesn't like that you're passing an actual -string-, I may have a hack for you. 15:46:55 er 15:47:02 cffi:with-pointer-to-vector-data? 15:47:48 With the caveat that it's set up for a different sort of string and the base-strings have, IIRC, a "hidden" extra element to them that you may want to keep but you need to tell the GC about if you change the element type. 15:48:06 Ralith: Still need to copy the thing. 15:48:42 stassats`: memcpy! (: 15:48:51 nyef: yeah, but I imagine it's a great deal easier at that point. 15:49:31 minion: paste 96796? 15:49:31 Paste number 96796: "A nasty hack" by nyef in #lisp. http://paste.lisp.org/display/96796 15:50:04 In this case, I was dealing with a character string, which uses a 32-bit internal representation for characters. 15:50:47 dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:51:42 And there's a lie-of-omission to the compiler in that mess: It still thinks hello-octets is a string at the end, not the array of (unsigned-byte 8) that it became. 15:52:02 Still, I'd look at the bit-bash functions. 15:52:20 nyef: wouldn't it be simpled to go with w-p-o/vector-sap here? 15:52:42 copy-ub8-to-system-area works, but it's actually slightly slower than lying to the compiler way 15:52:45 Might, I have no idea. 15:53:01 It wouldn't have been for my case, but might for stassats`. 15:53:18 oh, i'll try copy-ub32-to-system-area 15:53:38 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:55:58 strange, (sap+ sap offset) works, but (copy-ub32-to-system-area ... sap offset ...) doesn't 15:56:44 *nyef* isn't going there. 15:56:53 Had enough trouble with bit-bash stuff recently. 15:57:04 (Well, not -recently- recently, but... ) 15:57:19 stassats`: we've had some issue with whether the offset is in byte or not there. 15:57:21 stray_hound__ pasted "can someone help me understand this error?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98872 15:58:39 stray_hound__: looks like it :uses :cl and :closer-mop, while it should :use :c2cl 16:00:33 stassats: thanks! 16:00:37 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:02:05 i see many complaints on that matter, perhaps that's a recent change in closer-mop 16:02:20 -!- quodlibetor [~user@ool-18baa8f1.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:02:40 is a library bound with cffi slower then when used from a C application ? 16:02:48 welcome to the wonderful new CLOSER-MOP! 16:02:52 (not) 16:03:07 it shadows defgeneric and defmethod and more. 16:04:22 Fare, was it to me ? 16:04:27 *for 16:04:40 curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:04:44 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:04:52 it was for stray_hound 16:04:59 -!- dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:05:02 ah 16:05:21 has anyone here used bknr datastore? 16:05:23 carlocci [~nes@93.37.216.88] has joined #lisp 16:05:44 Odin- [~sbkhh@130.208.212.1] has joined #lisp 16:06:11 i guess H4ns uses it, but he hasn't been around for awhile 16:06:28 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 16:07:36 -!- maden [~maden@198.168.103.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:09:13 how about cl-prevalence? 16:09:45 spearalot [~spearalot@41.130.1.205] has joined #lisp 16:10:31 -!- cmsimon [~iamcms2@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [] 16:11:05 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:11:10 Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:11:12 stray_hound__, long ago, I did. You probably need to edit defpackage statements to be compatible with the new closer-mop -- using closer-mop and closer-common-lisp instead of closer-mop and common-lisp (aka cl) 16:11:34 ok, the fastest and cleanest way so far: get the sap of a string and copy it in a cycle 16:12:11 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:10 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:43 stassats`, is that gc-friendly? 16:13:49 Fare: right on 16:14:03 Fare: i don't know 16:14:11 but i don't cons much 16:14:29 so i guess without-gcing could be used 16:14:38 if it's not gc-friendly 16:14:41 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:14:46 stray_hound__, been there, done that 16:15:07 *stassats`* optimized ten-folds performance-wise and cons-wise 16:15:16 today, using sbcl tricks 16:15:41 Should be gc-safe on x86oids, at least, as they pin the pages referred to on the stack and register sets. 16:16:13 safe if you use with-pinned-object. 16:17:06 Actually, that's been worrying me. Does w-p-o work properly on ppc/gencgc? 16:17:28 does anyone produce new ppc machines? 16:17:41 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:18:03 embedded? 16:18:10 pkhuong: thanks 16:18:15 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 16:19:19 Isn't the Wii a PPC? 16:19:48 nyef: Not exactly.... But close enough. 16:20:34 Anyway, I have a power mac g5, in mostly-working order, so ppc is still a going concern for me. 16:20:52 (Hence 1.0.38.1 - 1.0.38.5.) 16:24:22 FirewalkeR [FirewalkR@clave.dsi.uminho.pt] has joined #lisp 16:24:31 -!- FirewalkeR [FirewalkR@clave.dsi.uminho.pt] has left #lisp 16:25:14 -!- mpr312 [~chatzilla@pool-74-101-147-57.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:25:41 -!- paslambox [~maden@modemcable136.252-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 16:25:41 Davidbrcz [david@212-198-91-47.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 16:26:13 -!- Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Absquatulandus sum] 16:27:47 cmsimon [~iamcms2@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 16:27:59 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:35:36 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:37:29 Shaftoe [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096725400.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 16:37:37 Hello all. 16:37:48 Can someone explain to me why this doesn't work: (funcall (car '(#'identity)) 1) 16:37:50 ? 16:38:18 because you're trying to call a list 16:38:25 Shaftoe: you're taking the car of ((function identity)) 16:38:33 Try (funcall (car (list #'identity)) 1) 16:39:10 alright. the one with list works. 16:39:21 but I thought '(...) was exactly equivalent to (list ...) 16:39:22 no? 16:39:27 no 16:39:28 not at all 16:39:29 No. 16:39:32 it's equivalent to (quote ...) 16:39:44 right. 16:39:51 which doesn't evaluate its arguments 16:39:52 my mistake there. 16:39:55 I didn't think that. 16:39:57 List evaluates its arguments. 16:40:02 I thought `( ,a ,b) 16:40:02 ... 16:40:22 That's list, right there. 16:40:30 The SBCL pretty printer is not so helpful here. 16:40:37 aye. 16:40:40 (car '(#'identity)) => #'IDENTITY 16:40:52 But (car (car '(#'identity))) => FUNCTION 16:41:33 (write (car '(#'identity)) :pretty nil) => (FUNCTION IDENTITY) 16:41:55 (type-of #'identity) => function. (type-of '#'identity) => cons. 16:41:57 also #'identity => # 16:41:59 (write (car '('identity)) :pretty nil) => (QUOTE IDENTITY) 16:42:08 Alright. so here's a not so hypothetical situation I have. 16:42:48 I've created a function which I call with a command name (i.e. sql stored proc), and list of arguemtns (i.e. html form names from a post) 16:42:53 so the call looks like this: 16:42:55 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-11-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:43:14 (save "spSave" '("id" "title" "content")) 16:43:35 And now, I'm adding a validation routine to the whole thing which I'd liek to express like so: 16:43:43 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 16:44:04 (save "spSave" '("id" "title" "content" ("phone" '#'validate-phone))) 16:44:24 you can store a name of the function 16:44:25 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-114-192.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:44:40 (save "spSave" '("id" "title" "content" ("phone" validate-phone))) 16:44:45 yeah, I can, but I'd like it if I could also be able to put lambda values in there 16:45:01 like ("phone" #'(lambda (x) .. do something only once ever )) 16:45:07 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:45:12 well, then you have to evaluate it 16:45:23 meaning? 16:45:55 using LIST or backquoute 16:46:21 I see. so it is going to get slightly more verbose 16:46:28 <_3b> or just coerce it to a function? 16:46:30 Or, if you really have a literal list (say coming from some data source) you could pull out the function thing and COMPILE it. 16:46:31 if that's your usecase, it'd probably be easier to just use a &rest argument 16:47:02 should fasls under Windows go to %APPDATA%/common-lisp/cache/ or to %TEMP%/common-lisp/ or what? 16:47:17 my actual usage has a very thin macro around this that makes me not have to type that extra ' 16:47:35 like so: (defsave "sp-name" ("tag1" "tag2" "tag3")) 16:47:43 -!- cmsimon [~iamcms2@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [] 16:47:51 So your macro should expand into something other than QUOTE. 16:47:57 ' is so hard to type 16:48:00 (any windows lisp user here?) 16:48:09 and you can't untype it 16:48:13 right now, inside the macro is '. You're saying I should use a back quote instead? 16:48:15 in the macro, i mean 16:48:25 you should use a function 16:48:35 oh, like list ? 16:48:38 or quote? 16:48:51 (or you mean, I should not use a macro at all) 16:48:57 ? 16:49:01 no, like your SAVE, with typing ' or not-typing when needed 16:49:08 s/-/ / 16:49:10 -!- HG` [~HG@xdslhl127.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: HG`] 16:49:32 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:49:52 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:50:51 Shaftoe: I think your DEFSAVE macro (which I hope is used as a top-level form, just based on the name) could reasonably take apart it's arguments and deal with both a function name and a lambda expression in the position where you put the optional validator. 16:50:52 ok, I don't think I understand what you mean =\ 16:51:44 ok. So I would handle this inside the macro (before I pass it down to my useful function). 16:51:47 Shaftoe: scratch your defsave macro, it's doing any good, use a function 16:52:11 stassats`: ok. that's what I'm hearing. 16:52:34 Shaftoe: I suspect stassats` is right. Though I haven't been paying too close attention. 16:52:38 in any case though, that means that I will have to be more verbose in my top level form definition 16:52:55 well, the point is not that I want the macro or not. 16:53:05 I was hoping I could have two actions sit side by side like so: 16:53:20 (defsave "action1" ("value1" "value2")) 16:53:25 typing one more ' is not verbose 16:53:31 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:53:43 HG` [~HG@xdslhl127.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:53:45 (defsave "action2" ("value1" "value2" ("value3" . #'(lambda(x)x)))) 16:54:11 Indeed. was just trying to figure out if it could be done. 16:54:32 and why do you type "#'"? if you consider that verbose 16:54:55 touché =) 16:55:41 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:55:52 alright. thanks all. it is a done deal. 16:56:11 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 16:56:21 gigamonkey: btw, yes, it's a top level form a-la def-clp 16:56:52 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 16:57:10 In that case I'd sort of like to see it as a DEF macro. 16:57:41 it needs to be a macro only if you want to propagate changes at compile-time 16:58:43 well, I use it as a way of introspection which I'm not sure if I can using a simple defun. i.e. I register the name of the function with a page handler and also wrap the function into an error handler that will properly communicate the response code to the browser. 16:58:48 or if uses some other top-level macros 16:59:06 (which I'm not sure if I can do using) 16:59:10 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 16:59:38 (browser = browser via hunchentoot) 17:00:44 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:01:01 so I guess in a way, stassats, it is a way to propagate changes at 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[~iamcms2@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 18:06:57 -!- egoz [~Egoz@202.70.51.33] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:07:10 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:08:02 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:08:23 enthymeme [~kraken@130.166.209.9] has joined #lisp 18:10:38 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-45-238.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: HG`] 18:12:50 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 18:12:51 -!- Phoodus [foo@174-22-192-234.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:13:35 is slime-tramp still usable? 18:13:48 should be usable 18:13:58 not that i use it 18:15:49 *stassats`* went today on optimization rampage 18:15:53 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@130.208.212.1] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 18:15:53 and they say lisp is slow 18:15:58 did you win? 18:17:33 Edward__ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-25-72.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:18:18 mpr312 [~chatzilla@pool-74-101-147-57.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:18:55 -!- tantann [tt@unaffiliated/samuel9999] has left #lisp 18:19:41 -!- lithper1_ [~chatzilla@216.214.176.130] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 18:20:35 loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.182] has joined #lisp 18:21:29 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-99-244.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:17 -!- stettber` is now known as stettberger 18:22:20 daniel__ [~daniel@p5082F20D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:35 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-171-4.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 18:23:00 -!- Buganini [~buganini@security-hole.info] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:23:29 Buganini [~buganini@security-hole.info] has joined #lisp 18:24:08 HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-62-169.dip.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:24:22 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082E0A0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:25:48 on the subject of lisp being slow what would a good test be for a comparison between lisp and something like c#? 18:26:37 Lisp in general is VERY bad at manipulating .NET objects. 18:26:49 while C# is bad at, uh, processing Elephant databases? 18:26:51 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:27:04 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:27:11 airline pricing. C# is bad at processing airline pricing. 18:27:30 :p 18:27:39 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 18:27:49 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 18:28:22 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Client Quit] 18:28:35 well i will put money on it that lisp + hunchentoot runs rings around asp.net 18:29:43 Harag: Doesn't seem especially likely to me. 18:29:51 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 18:30:07 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:30:37 Guthur [~michael@host86-132-121-145.range86-132.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:30:50 Xach: well i will have to write something to really compare 18:30:58 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 18:31:04 -!- HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:31:26 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 18:31:32 ThomasIl [~thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 18:31:39 but i did a lot of asp.net and it is really slugish even on an intranet 18:34:58 -!- ThomasI [~thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:37:47 Odin- [~sbkhh@130.208.212.1] has joined #lisp 18:39:57 ok. XCVB works with ECL now. For some definition of works. 18:40:06 iPac [~bubble@p54AA7AA1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:40:11 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-155-194-204.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:40:43 -!- jsnell [~jsnell@vasara.proghammer.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:40:48 jsnell [~jsnell@vasara.proghammer.com] has joined #lisp 18:40:53 i.e. it produces executable images, but won't play nice with cl-launch to make an executable application from that yet. 18:41:25 next step would be to produce .a files, etc., and link it all that way. 18:41:39 -!- Edward__ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-25-72.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:41:48 at which point we could probably link cffi stuff, too. 18:42:35 Edward__ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-64-144.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:43:39 lnostdal [~lnostdal@162.80-203-136.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 18:49:35 nurv [nurv@62.32.129.138] has joined #lisp 18:49:49 jamu [~dasilvj@unaffiliated/dasilvj] has joined #lisp 18:50:45 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:52:06 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-99-244.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:54:09 <_3b> iolib:with-open-socket sure has an interesting way of saying 'unknown keyword argument' :p 18:57:14 i.e. at some point, the equivalent of buildapp for xcvb should be designed. 18:57:14 meh 19:02:58 pookleblinky [~pooklebli@cpe-67-252-140-159.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:04:43 francogrex [~user@130.107-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 19:05:16 -!- pookleblinky [~pooklebli@cpe-67-252-140-159.buffalo.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 19:07:12 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 19:07:43 maden [~maden@dsl-156-112.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 19:10:29 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-99-244.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 19:10:49 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@130.166.209.9] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 19:13:33 -!- Harag [~Harag@41.56.19.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:14:43 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:15:23 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:18:34 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 19:19:34 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-32-95.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 19:20:39 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:25:19 rdd [~user@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 19:25:31 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 19:31:37 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:35:27 pinterface [~pinterfac@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has joined #lisp 19:38:25 I just realised how the remote development process Marco Baringer actually used. 19:38:26 -!- curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:39:11 but also realised to do it without using tramp 19:40:55 What alternative to tramp did you use? 19:41:47 Nightmare File System? SAMBA? 19:41:57 Guthur: any version control system will do 19:45:49 that's not really the same 19:46:37 sshfs works well enough for me. 19:46:57 faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 19:47:19 any sheeple user/developer around? 19:47:34 drewc: yes, sshfs too 19:48:11 basically one needs to set slime-to-lisp-filename-function according how the directories map to each other 19:48:18 *Fare* thinks about sheeple for xcvb, but also about some kind of extensible type-system thingie that could statically check that all methods are defined for all cases of relevant functions. 19:49:03 *Fare* also thinks about integrating molicle's and xcvb somehow. 19:49:09 -!- iPac [~bubble@p54AA7AA1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: adios] 19:49:24 for example, I can't use a local git repo for development, push it to remote, but when I C-c C-k on a local file the swank knows to load the corresponding file on the server. 19:49:27 sshfs might be nice one actually 19:49:29 s/can't/can/ 19:49:38 I could not get tramp working 19:50:08 Guthur: it is definitely worth the trouble getting it working ;) 19:50:12 I still don't know how to layer a good module system on top of CL in a semi-backward-compatible way. 19:53:53 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:55:14 Here's a little puzzler I had to write a short program to answer: what standard special variables have alphabetic characters but no hyphens? 19:55:36 (they are obvious in hindsight but i was drawing a blank) 19:56:24 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 19:56:30 Do they have asterisks? 19:56:37 *package* is the first thing that comes to mind 19:56:48 *_3b* sees 3 with ** in the clhs index 19:56:50 it seems tramp has gotten a lot better since emacs 23.2. I used to ignore it entirely. 19:57:07 nyef: yes. 19:57:10 also the REPL variables /, //, ///, etc. 19:57:16 adeht: those aren't alphabetic! 19:57:23 *readtable* 19:57:31 2 down, 2 to go 19:57:43 Xach: ah 19:57:50 *features* 19:57:56 *modules* 19:58:06 hah! exactly in the order i'd rank them for obscurity. 19:58:32 *features* is more obscure than *readtable*? 19:58:45 nyef: way obscurer 19:59:14 leo2007: I'll give it another go, my server is down at the moment annoyingly 19:59:26 Wherefore were you asking yourself the question, Xach? 19:59:32 Guthur: which version of emacs are you running? 19:59:40 marioxcc [~user@201.132.49.164] has joined #lisp 20:00:09 pinterface: I'm trying to improve my search index for Usenet articles. i'd like Lisp code in the articles to be reasonably searchable, e.g. for cl specials like *readtable*. 20:00:47 pinterface: but kmp, for example, uses asterisks for emphasis an awful lot, so i'm casting around for heuristics to distinguish emphasis from cl code. 20:01:14 See this: http://imagebin.org/95901 20:01:19 leo2007: 23.1.1 20:01:33 I think I had tried it on 22.x before 20:01:51 Ahhhh. Sensible! 20:02:12 it is transparent to eshell too. 20:04:11 -!- schoppenhauer [~senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:04:13 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757058.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:04:39 I think have set up a reasonable remote devel environment making available a powerful machine in my department. 20:06:39 leo2007: how powerful? 20:07:35 powerful than my laptop ;) 20:07:50 4 x 3.4G cpu + 6G mem 20:08:17 it is a machine for undergraduate projects so not very but enough for my simulation. 20:08:27 crunch numbers like the wind! 20:09:46 the thing is I can almost find one where I am the only one running intensive computation. so it is not too bad. 20:10:37 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 20:11:14 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:11:26 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has quit [Quit: Want lisppaste in your channel? Email lisppaste-requests AT common-lisp.net.] 20:11:33 lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 20:12:12 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:20 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:26 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:17:28 -!- rdd [~user@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:18:15 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:18:30 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 20:20:36 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:22:14 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:23 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 20:22:28 silenius [~silenius@rrcs-64-183-24-50.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:23:48 -!- Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:24:54 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 20:26:02 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:28:35 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 20:30:20 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 20:31:28 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-99-244.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:32:27 Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-179-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:27 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-179-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:32:27 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 20:33:33 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [] 20:34:32 Joreji [~thomas@86-084.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 20:37:48 quodlibetor [~user@146.95.31.75] has joined #lisp 20:39:47 any plplot users here? 20:40:34 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:40:45 -!- francogrex [~user@130.107-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:41:23 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:41:38 grouzen [~grouzen@82.148.30.97] has joined #lisp 20:45:31 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:45:59 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:46:04 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 20:47:25 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:47:31 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 20:47:50 -!- quodlibetor [~user@146.95.31.75] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:48:14 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:54:03 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-32-95.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:56:27 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 20:57:00 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 20:57:58 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:58:21 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 20:58:22 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 20:59:18 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 20:59:33 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Puf!] 21:02:24 smik [~siddhant3@175.40.17.179] has joined #lisp 21:02:32 -!- palter [palter@clozure-CDE684CB.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 21:02:33 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Quit: palter] 21:02:54 What is the difference between (1 2 3 4 5) and '(1 2 3 4 5) 21:03:22 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 21:03:34 smik: (1 2 3 4 5) is a call to the function named 1 with the arguments 2 3 4 5 21:03:45 '(1 2 3 4 5) is a list of five elements 21:03:54 clhs quote 21:03:56 lemoinem: really I thought everything is a list 21:04:04 in lisp 21:04:09 gzmask [~gzmask@corwin.cat.uregina.ca] has joined #lisp 21:04:14 -!- davertron [~Dave@vt-sb-1.logicsupply.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:04:22 smik: what book are you learning from? 21:04:23 enthymeme [~kraken@130.166.209.9] has joined #lisp 21:04:30 pkhuong: PCL 21:04:41 demmeln [~Adium@dslb-188-098-211-160.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:42 On the Chapter Simple Database 21:04:46 smik: it's just that first element of an unqouted list (when treated in code) is taken as the function to call with the rest of the list as parameters. 21:05:02 learning remove-if-not 21:05:31 smik: both of the forms you typed are lists. They aren't evaluated the same way, though. 21:05:32 -!- demmeln [~Adium@dslb-188-098-211-160.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:05:33 <_3b> smik: "(1 2 3)" READs as the list (1 2 3), which evaluates as a call to the function 1 with arguments 2 and 3, probably resulting in an error 21:05:45 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-5-248.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 21:05:48 -!- sellout [~greg@2002:4855:eb9a:0:21d:4fff:fefe:c504] has quit [Quit: sellout] 21:05:54 demmeln [~Adium@dslb-188-098-211-160.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:06:03 I get it 21:06:17 <_3b> "'(1 2 3)" reads as (quote (1 2 3)), which evaluates as a call to the special operator QUOTE with the list (1 2 3) as an argument, which returns the argument unmodified 21:06:19 It might be amusing if there were a lisp out there which defined the result of calling a fixnum. 21:06:34 nyef: doesn't Arc do that? 21:06:51 Well, Arc is a joke, so it'd fit... 21:07:24 And if I am not wrong (+ 1 2) will evaluate as 3 but '(+ 1 2) will evaluate as a list with element + 1 2 21:07:39 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-35-126.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:08:05 Then why do we need the function (list elements) 21:08:22 smik: the argument to LIST are evaluated. 21:08:23 we can always create new list as ' 21:08:43 pkhuong: oh good 21:08:44 -!- gzmask [~gzmask@corwin.cat.uregina.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:08:45 smik: and with LIST, you get a different *new* list. 21:08:47 <_3b> the arguments to QUOTE aren't evaluated, so for example (let ((foo 1)) '(foo 2 3)) doesn't return (1 2 3), but list would 21:08:52 Harag [~Harag@wbs-196-2-114-176.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:09:21 <_3b> also, ' generally returns a literal, which you shouldn't modify 21:10:03 That means that (list (+ 1 2) 2) will give me a list (3 2) while '((+ 1 2) 2) gives me a list ((+ 1 2) 2) 21:10:11 good, I can understand that 21:10:23 -!- qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has left #lisp 21:10:41 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:11:38 Is there a way to type the last entered statement in SLIME REPL 21:12:09 <_3b> M-p ? 21:12:24 _3b: great 21:12:43 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 21:12:58 <_3b> it will also search for a match if you type in the beginning of the form before you hit M-p 21:14:05 _3b: I didn't got that 21:14:50 <_3b> if you enter (+ 1 2) in the repl, then do some other stuff, you can type (+ M-p and get back the (+ 1 2) form 21:15:34 <_3b> (possibly hit M-p a few times if the other stuff included forms starting with (+, but probably fewer times than otherwise 21:15:53 _3b: aaj 21:15:56 h 21:15:56 nice 21:16:19 gzmask [~gzmask@corwin.cat.uregina.ca] has joined #lisp 21:17:37 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:05 tcr [~tcr@88-134-20-86-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 21:22:31 sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:23:50 -!- HG` [~HG@xdsl-92-252-62-169.dip.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:24:33 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-196-2-114-176.wbs.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:24:49 myu2 [~myu2@w179122.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 21:25:27 -!- Davidbrcz [david@212-198-91-47.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:27:07 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:27:33 <_3b> does babel:string-to-octets not translate line endings? 21:27:48 -!- vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:28:07 vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has joined #lisp 21:28:24 slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 21:30:16 Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 21:31:50 -!- cmsimon [~iamcms2@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [] 21:32:23 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Quit: palter] 21:34:29 -!- frontiers [~jackb@139.79-160-22.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:38:52 Sumeragi [~blubb@178-24-92-220-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 21:39:22 *test* :D 21:39:50 mejja [~user@c-14bee555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 21:41:08 -!- Sumeragi [~blubb@178-24-92-220-dynip.superkabel.de] has left #lisp 21:43:35 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.65.161.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 21:45:25 -!- joga [joga@rikki.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:51:17 -!- demmeln [~Adium@dslb-188-098-211-160.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 21:52:00 leo2007: thanks for the patch 21:52:13 the buffer patch? 21:52:27 that's nothing. 21:52:50 Mohikaner [~moe@stgt-5f718b34.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:49 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 21:57:16 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 21:59:31 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:00:33 billstclair [~billstcla@dsl-65-219-212-221.taconic.net] has joined #lisp 22:00:33 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@dsl-65-219-212-221.taconic.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:00:33 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 22:03:08 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:07:53 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 22:08:31 -!- gzmask [~gzmask@corwin.cat.uregina.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:08:42 where can I find an easy to understand example on how to integrate unit tests with asdf? 22:09:30 in its manual I think 22:12:24 gruseom [~daniel@h2-72.wlan.ucalgary.ca] has joined #lisp 22:13:07 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:13:18 joga [joga@rikki.fi] has 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error may yet give rise to fruitful inquiry that can establish truths of great value.] 22:32:24 -!- p_l [plasek@gateway/shell/rootnode.net/x-xvqpjlvuinurkhlm] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:32:37 -!- gzmask [~gzmask@corwin.cat.uregina.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 22:34:07 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@130.166.209.9] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 22:35:17 -!- t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B20051A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:37:24 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:59 twopoint718 [~chris@adsl-76-233-147-47.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:42:16 bitflip [~user@ip98-184-186-177.tu.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:49:06 ignotus [~ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has joined #lisp 22:51:51 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:51:58 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 22:52:15 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:54:10 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:57:47 .topic 22:59:10 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:59:45 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:02:41 -!- mejja [~user@c-14bee555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.9/2010031700]] 23:03:10 -!- twopoint718 [~chris@adsl-76-233-147-47.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:08:26 _danb_ [~user@124-168-128-117.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 23:09:31 -!- jlf [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has left #lisp 23:16:03 Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@d207-6-77-199.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 23:17:48 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 23:17:55 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 23:18:07 .topic 23:19:35 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-216-10.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 23:23:55 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:24:35 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-155-194-204.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:25:47 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 23:27:26 p_l [plasek@gateway/shell/rootnode.net/x-jbnfvuutxmsriitr] has joined #lisp 23:27:47 -!- Joreji [~thomas@86-084.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:31:23 -!- Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:31:47 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 23:33:32 -!- laynor [~ale@109.76.124.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:34:28 Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:34:56 -!- Fare is now known as Guest79599 23:35:12 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-216-10.wbs.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:35:14 -!- benny [~benny@i577A8631.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:36:06 laynor [~ale@109.76.124.101] has joined #lisp 23:37:55 -!- ThomasIl [~thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit [Quit: Bye Bye!] 23:38:14 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:40:00 -!- Guest79599 is now known as FareWell 23:40:54 -!- jamu [~dasilvj@unaffiliated/dasilvj] has quit [Quit: out://] 23:42:54 Lithos [~chatzilla@DSLPool-net209-213.wctc.net] has joined #lisp 23:43:03 -!- phnglui [~phnglui@cpe-76-181-155-131.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:44:23 -!- gruseom [~daniel@h2-72.wlan.ucalgary.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:45:31 phnglui [~phnglui@198.30.120.200] has joined #lisp 23:46:32 phnglui_ [~phnglui@cpe-76-181-155-131.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:48:00 FareWell: Around? 23:48:42 -!- ignotus [~ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has left #lisp 23:50:02 -!- phnglui [~phnglui@198.30.120.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:50:09 -!- phnglui_ is now known as phnglui 23:50:52 minion: memo for FareWell: I've integrated asdf2 into cmucl. So the next snapshot should have asdf2 as a contrib. 23:50:53 Remembered. I'll tell FareWell when he/she/it next speaks. 23:51:35 -!- Edward__ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-64-144.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 23:51:54 minion: memo for FareWell: Why the declaim in asdf2? Is it really necessary? Cmucl gives quite a few compiler notes. 23:51:55 Remembered. I'll tell FareWell when he/she/it next speaks. 23:52:46 *rme* looks at hat declaim in asdf.lisp 23:52:51 That's got to go. 23:53:31 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 23:54:14 Anyone here know of any big programs that Hal Abelson has been personally involved in hacking on? 23:55:38 -!- phnglui [~phnglui@cpe-76-181-155-131.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:56:15 phnglui [~phnglui@cpe-76-181-155-131.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:58:16 In ccl at least, the effects of declaim persist after the file is loaded. 23:58:21 rtoym, I don't remember why -- wanna me to remove it? 23:58:21 FareWell, memo from rtoym: I've integrated asdf2 into cmucl. So the next snapshot should have asdf2 as a contrib. 23:58:21 FareWell, memo from rtoym: Why the declaim in asdf2? Is it really necessary? Cmucl gives quite a few compiler notes. 23:58:33 rme: what do you think? 23:58:43 phnglui_ [~phnglui@198.30.120.200] has joined #lisp 23:59:06 My suggestion is to remove it. Or at least wrap it in an (eval-when (:compile-toplevel) ...). 23:59:28 FareWell: declare where it matters (if any)?