00:01:44 -!- maden_ [~maden@dsl-159-87.aei.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:02:59 last question, what's the best way to block deferrable signals from sbcl? 00:03:15 -!- maden__ [~maden@dsl-159-87.aei.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:03:49 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:04:13 -!- bizarrefish [~lee@host86-146-52-27.range86-146.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:04:19 maden__ [~maden@dsl-159-87.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 00:04:19 (sb-thread::block-deferrable-signals) 00:04:20 Paraselene_ [~Not@79-67-148-135.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 00:04:27 -!- Paraselene [~Not@79-67-148-135.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:05:43 followed by unblock-deferrable-signals after the call is done? 00:06:06 bizarrefish [~lee@host86-146-52-27.range86-146.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 00:06:12 (which is in sb-uinx?) 00:06:14 right, in an unwind-protect, I guess. 00:06:25 yeah, figured that would be the case 00:06:38 chicago_andy: right. You probably want to copy the define-alien-routine forms. 00:06:49 ok 00:07:15 hah! 00:07:28 my sbcl just died during a slime autocomplete 00:08:29 total confusion indeed, lossage_handler 00:08:36 -!- maden__ [~maden@dsl-159-87.aei.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 00:14:18 -!- nullman [~nullman@c-75-73-150-26.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:22:18 -!- Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@d207-6-77-199.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- In tests, 0x09 out of 0x0A l33t h4x0rz prefer it :)] 00:22:47 maden [~maden@dsl-159-87.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 00:25:47 Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@d207-6-77-199.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 00:26:00 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:26:30 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.72.104] has joined #lisp 00:27:15 -!- Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@d207-6-77-199.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:27:19 so is mcclim the favored gui for cl? 00:27:53 I don't thik there is a favored GUI 00:27:54 depends on who you ask 00:28:13 lots of people use binding libs to OS-specific GUIs or to thinks like Tk/Qt/etc 00:29:33 I guess one that's actively being developed would be good enough 00:31:11 Lis [~Lis@dialbs-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 00:31:12 -!- Lis [~Lis@dialbs-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:31:32 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:32:48 I you could develop a modern CL GUI lib you'd probably be quite famous. 00:33:19 LispWorks is suppose to have a decent GUI setup, but that's a little pricey 00:34:15 I/If 00:34:30 Allegro has a GUI lib as well 00:34:34 -!- potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f667cc9-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:35:07 The thing is, using Lisp doesn't change the GUI metaphor all that much (still getting a bunch of imperative event handlers to offer a consistently working UI) 00:35:07 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.237] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:35:29 unless somebody really comes up with something unique, it's going to be relatively equivalent to the other imperative language UI libs, so might as well hook into those 00:36:03 Ya, WIMP can't be the pinnacle of HCI, can it? 00:36:05 clim truly is different, seemingly more like the HTML approach where things are live on a page 00:36:55 but I'm no expert in clim, nor know why it hasn't made more of a splash (compatibility? difficulty? robustness?) 00:37:25 Guthur: I'm simply talking about the API structuring 00:37:28 I have heard some say the learning curve is quite steep 00:37:32 from the programmer's perspective 00:37:57 it took me a very long time to realize that CLIM takes a similar approach to HTML 00:38:11 the descriptions are incredibly confusing 00:38:17 kind of like learning about monads 00:38:34 nobody bothers giving a simple explanation of those (and they are simple), always talking up weird abstract semantics 00:38:56 CLIM isn't confusing like monads, it's confusing like massively abstraction-layered object-oriented frameworks 00:39:00 isn't your CLIM/HTML analogy isomorphic to monads/burritos one? 00:39:21 I'm not familiar with a monads/burritos analogy 00:39:21 Burritos? 00:39:34 yeah, monads are like burritos 00:39:52 spicey and hard to digest? 00:40:24 if what you ... excrete ... ends up wrapped in a soft tortilla, then maybe the same wrapper description can be used ;) 00:42:32 http://byorgey.wordpress.com/2009/01/12/abstraction-intuition-and-the-monad-tutorial-fallacy/ 00:42:42 blbrown [~Berlin@75.139.142.224] has joined #lisp 00:43:48 again, more haskell hubris. "You can't explain monads with simple means. You MUST slog through difficult thought processes like we had to" 00:44:13 these people hate the notion that mere commoners might be able to learn what they know 00:44:36 or, heaven forbid, link their abstractions to the simple reality of what they do 00:44:51 -!- maden [~maden@dsl-159-87.aei.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:44:52 forget haskell and monads, "Coping with radical novelty requires an orthogonal method..." 00:45:25 orhtogonal to "metaphors and analogies" i.e. 00:46:06 any of you up on clx? seems there is clx proper, then something called 'telnet' ? 00:46:52 telent 00:47:09 I could really care less about portablility. I haven't booted to windows in ages. 00:47:30 bytecolor: nyef tinkers with clx 00:47:43 ah, telent 00:47:50 oh? 00:47:54 nus: as far as I understand that statement, it seems out of context here 00:48:03 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 00:48:40 I think he is saying some things are hard and for a lot of people they are just going to have to take and expend effort to learn them 00:48:50 take/take time 00:49:06 wonder how long it would take to bang out set of common gui controls with clx. Ones that don't look like a unix gui from 1984. 00:49:07 I should certainly take time to learn how to touch type 00:49:21 But something like Monads are definitely not hard. They're a very simple thing that has some interesting connotations in the semantics of functional style 00:49:48 But since there are all sorts of interesting things that monads do to the abstract science of functional computing, they only focus on those things, and not what the monad _is_ at its core 00:50:03 -!- lithper1_ [~chatzilla@216.214.176.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:50:06 But that's what he is saying ignore the fact its about Monads and haskell, its about learning 00:50:32 Dijkstra's quote was about things that are hard to grasp 00:50:43 I'm talking about things that are easy to grasp, but have been made artificially hard due to hubris 00:51:28 I've noticed this in 3 things so far 00:52:01 CLIM, JavaSpaces, and Monads 00:52:20 specificailly with CLIM, just its difference to standard GUI models 00:52:30 If I have an a-list of arbitrary length, and I wanted to grab the car of that collection that had the highest occurence, is there a good efficient way of doing that? For example: ((FOO . 0.0024) (FOO . 0.023) (CAR . 1.23)) -- I would want to return FOO. 00:52:32 Phoodus, my point is your CLIM/HTML analogy isn't helpful to grasp what *your* understanding of CLIM is. 00:52:32 That could be related to the article too. Because there is a level of complexity to the item to be learnt, people attempt to add unnecessary abstractions to ease the process which only end up providing hubris as you describe 00:52:32 Add continuations to that. 00:52:57 nus: oh, I was just throwing out a point, not offering a full description 00:53:00 HTML is too many things to too many people. 00:53:24 CLIM seems to be about outputting live obects to a page, like outputting text to a HTML structure creates live GUI structures 00:53:31 I would imagine box model, which may or may not be useful 00:54:00 -!- blbrown [~Berlin@75.139.142.224] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:54:38 Then another point of view might be hierarchical declaration 00:56:12 how does
text
create live GUI structure? 00:56:32 it creates formatted a formatted text structure 00:56:35 -!- seangrove [~user@cpe-76-171-251-67.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:56:42 but the main difference is in the console-like interaction, as far as I can tell 00:57:14 It you include CSS like the standard advocates then no it does not really define formatting 00:57:44 HTML is semantic representation of content, CSS is presentation 00:57:52 with HTML, you can stream text into pretty much any area of the page, and UI stuff appears. With CLIM, it seems like you can stream objects into pretty much any portion of the UI and have its live objects appear 00:58:26 again, I don't know enough about CLIM to know how far-reaching this analogy goes 00:58:36 html is like clim in that they both do text-stream-oriented structuring of stuff that isn't just text 00:58:48 but I had to read a long time to even make the link of how CLIM puts stuff on screen 00:58:51 -!- moljac024 [~bojan@77.46.166.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:58:53 presentations ~= hyperlinks 00:59:38 because like JavaSpaces, it seems that much of the materials were focused around what it isn't, rather than what it is 01:00:08 ("JavaSpaces is not a DB, don't use it like a DB! It's also not this etc etc", but what _is_ it?) 01:00:22 (it's a linda-style blackboard btw) 01:01:47 also I should make a partial redaction in that I don't think CLIM's descriptions are due to hubris at all 01:02:25 it's just written by people who definitely already know it :) 01:03:15 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:03:38 *kpreid* does not think that the Haskell perspectives are due to hubris, either 01:04:00 that burrito page certainly reeked of it 01:04:05 it's a whole lot of people trying to explain things to baffled beginners in whatever way they think will work 01:04:21 most of them have failed, and the rest get odder 01:04:35 ntd [~user@daneel.cc.gt.atl.ga.us] has joined #lisp 01:06:19 20QAAVNXG [~maden@dsl-159-87.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 01:06:19 77CAAMA39 [~maden@dsl-159-87.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 01:06:41 -!- 20QAAVNXG [~maden@dsl-159-87.aei.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:07:03 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 01:07:58 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 01:08:03 Phoodus: i have been unable to understand monads when looking at introductory texts. 01:08:52 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 01:09:28 If SBCL calls out to some C++ code, and C++ throws an exception, then catches it, should Lisp notice this or complain that something has gone wrong? 01:09:30 In fact they try to explain it in a way that the only thing that is clear is they allow you to do IO in a language that does not allow side effects. 01:09:33 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 01:09:35 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 01:09:59 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 01:10:28 nurv: I actually learned what monads are for from working with Erlang 01:10:50 {Val, NewState} = myFunc(OldState, Param) 01:10:59 {Val2, NewState2} = myFunc(NewState, Param2) 01:11:02 Never used Erlang. 01:11:06 chaining all the states together 01:11:18 It's syntax scared me. 01:11:29 But it looked nice i may give a try. 01:11:31 I guess the lisp equivalent would be doing (defun myfunc (state &rest params) (... (values retval new-state))) 01:11:47 so you've got to capture both the return value & the new state from evrey function call 01:12:01 What does "state" represent? 01:12:09 simple example, a queue 01:12:15 and the functiosn would be push & pop 01:12:26 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:12:27 so when you call pop, you get a value, and a new queue state 01:12:48 now, you have to be very careful in your variable naming to only use the latest version of the queue 01:12:57 -!- ntd` [~user@daneel.cc.gt.atl.ga.us] has left #lisp 01:13:14 what a monad does is (with my queue, (defun myfunc (params) ... retval)) 01:13:22 mgr [~mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 01:13:25 It encapsulates the change of state? 01:13:26 and for each function call, gives it the old state, and captures the new state 01:13:30 yes 01:13:38 in haskell, it's purely syntactic sugar 01:13:50 for passing an addition parameter to a function, and grabbing an additional return value 01:14:02 and making sure that the functions are called in order, each with the latest affected state 01:14:35 so you can just basically say (with queue, a = pop, b = pop) 01:14:47 and pop takes the old queue, returns the return value and the new queue 01:15:06 -!- PuffTheMagic [~quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:15:41 So the queue is inmutable but the monad is an easy way to encapsulate a change and have the new queue? 01:15:47 correct 01:16:26 and it ensures that each function which uses that state passes the latest value to the next function 01:17:03 Mmmmm, if we consider say... strings in C# or in Java 01:17:04 purely by syntax expansion, actually 01:17:09 where they are inmutable 01:17:41 String c = "Hello"; c = c.ToLower(); 01:17:55 right, so if you say string1 = append("foo","bar"); string2 = append(string1,"baz"); string3 = append(string2,"blarg"); 01:17:56 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 01:17:58 that ToLower() returns a new String, because c is inmutable 01:18:13 why does Haskell need to introduce monads? 01:18:15 strings are different than a queue, in that you have multiple strings validly 01:18:19 i mean, can't you do that? 01:18:25 yes 01:18:31 but say with a queue, you have 1 queue 01:18:42 you don't want to use the prior state of the queue, you want the latest state of the queue 01:19:01 so you properly want to drop references to the old queue state 01:19:23 mmmm 01:19:41 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:19:42 it's a form to be able to do: c = c.ToLower && c.SomethingElse && c.... 01:19:50 but always using the latest state of c 01:19:51 exactly 01:20:06 (sorry, it's easier for me to see it with this example, it may be amusing) 01:20:20 well, that's a reasonable OO way to state what I showed functionally 01:20:29 like I said, I learned why it's used from Erlang 01:20:44 in pure functional code, it's a syntactic pain in the butt to always have to pass around the latest state values of everything 01:21:07 purely functional languages always seemed ankward to me 01:21:11 so monads just give names to things you want to track, and effectively work like mutable variables, but are implmented with pure functional code 01:21:22 right, monads are not useful if you're not pure functional 01:21:22 i mean, we program for the side effects of things 01:21:45 although i admit they have some interesting properties 01:21:50 and I also think that side effects should be properly contained, but not sought to be eliminated completely like Haskell does 01:22:32 there's one thing i don't get though 01:22:43 if monads just encapsulate change in state 01:22:57 which is interesting, it's similar to continuations in scheme 01:23:07 why are they useful for IO? where's the relation? 01:23:56 Phoodus, now you too fell to what byorgey was making point about: you just made an example of what a State monad is. There're other applications of monads as well. 01:24:12 marko [~marko@74.213.73.173] has joined #lisp 01:24:12 right 01:24:26 but monads are about passing "side-band" variables through functions 01:24:35 the state is a great application of it 01:25:01 Absolutely not; how does that capture nondeterministic search monads? 01:25:02 now that you see how those extra state variables are passed through, you can think of lots more applications of it 01:25:55 Phoodus: monads, for programmers, are just a design pattern: you specify a sequence of actions to perform (that's bind, >>=), and return values from these actions (return). 01:26:13 right 01:26:43 nurv: consider the "state" of your output console 01:27:19 nurv: say it says "blah: ", then you output "foo", and now the state of the console is "blah: foo" 01:27:38 however, it's nonsensical to access the prior state of the console once the output has been performed 01:27:58 well, it's unsupported, maybe not nonsensical 01:28:37 TDT: did you figure that most common problem out? I did it with reduce and count, but it's inefficient as hell. I was thinking a sort op would be in ther e somewhere. 01:28:46 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 01:28:51 -!- mpr312 [~chatzilla@pool-74-101-147-57.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:29:11 ./clbuild says hg can not be found 01:29:13 Phoodus: so we encapsulate a change of state in the console or the IO device 01:29:15 what is hg 01:29:21 yes 01:29:28 ./clbuild check* 01:29:52 it's just... going too far with the "everything is inmutable" paradigm 01:29:54 Guthur, mercurial 01:30:05 ah, cheers nus 01:30:33 nurv: right, but it does work and allows external side effects to be captured with the same semantics as the rest of haskell 01:31:22 at least is consistent 01:31:30 thanks for the explanation :) 01:31:37 pkhuong: would you say that it is incorrect to call bind & return a way to pass side-band closure variables through functions? 01:34:28 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483A313.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:36:22 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.219.123] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 01:36:27 side-band? 01:36:49 passes through without the main party noticing 01:37:08 variables are "in-band" if anything 01:37:17 or, outside the normal convention of function parameters 01:37:24 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:38:19 bytecolor pasted "element with highest occurrance" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98807 01:38:41 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 01:38:43 Phoodus: haven't used any haskell in ages, but i think of monads as more general than just variable passing 01:39:13 their implementation is just variable passing 01:39:15 that's probably not too inefficient 01:39:26 their _use_ can be all sorts of cool stuff 01:39:32 Phoodus: e.g. in the list monad return x = [x] 01:40:02 have to go, interesting talk about monads 01:40:04 good night :) 01:40:12 -!- nurv [nurv@62.32.146.157] has quit [] 01:41:57 hrm, need :key #'car in the remove-duplicates though 01:43:50 bytecolor annotated #98807 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98807#1 01:46:49 -!- lukjad86 [~lukjadOO7@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:49:16 -!- chicago_andy [~andy@c-24-1-117-26.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:51:24 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 01:51:58 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:55:44 -!- segmond [~seg@adsl-99-40-252-150.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:55:44 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Quit: palter] 01:57:26 Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@d207-6-77-199.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 02:02:23 chicago_andy [~andy@c-24-1-117-26.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:02:27 fusss [~chatzilla@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:02:39 dys` [~andreas@krlh-5f72c5e2.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 02:03:05 -!- smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:05:03 -!- dys [~andreas@krlh-5f72e5c0.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:05:26 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 02:10:35 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0153-74-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 02:11:47 fusss: hey 02:12:33 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 02:12:44 hey p_l 02:12:59 just debugging hunchentoot on win32 ccl 02:20:09 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:20:31 -!- chicago_andy [~andy@c-24-1-117-26.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:22:08 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 02:25:38 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:31:05 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:32:06 jcowan [~jcowan@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:35:21 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:40:49 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:43:59 myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 02:44:48 pixpop [~pixpop@166.205.137.78] has joined #lisp 02:44:49 -!- pixpop [~pixpop@166.205.137.78] has quit [Client Quit] 02:45:17 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 02:46:38 pixpop [~pixpop@166.205.137.78] has joined #lisp 02:48:54 If clbuild missed a dependency should it be reported or something? 02:49:25 report it to your local authority 02:49:35 Or failing that, to the Question Authority. 02:49:48 hehe ya just read its auto gen 02:50:30 Who can you blame when there is no QA 02:51:17 Just look around for someone wearing a "Question Authority" button. University campuses are a good place to try. 02:51:19 Well it was only one minor blip, nothing is perfect I suppose 02:51:35 -!- pixpop [~pixpop@166.205.137.78] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:52:28 Do I press the button, or will that raise dangerous questions 02:53:14 the read or blue button? 02:53:18 s/read/red/ 02:53:44 The QA is color-blind. 02:56:08 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:57:03 -!- plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-89-213.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:58:11 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 03:01:24 -!- Guthur [~michael@host86-137-237-51.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:02:15 -!- dys` [~andreas@krlh-5f72c5e2.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:02:38 dys` [~andreas@krlh-5f7267eb.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 03:06:19 -!- kvsari [~kvsari@203.171.93.21.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:08:32 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:10:32 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-64-215.ipnets.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 03:15:31 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.66.25.163] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:27:36 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.126.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:28:22 egoz_ [~Egoz@202.70.51.143] has joined #lisp 03:29:14 lithper1_ [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:30:31 -!- egoz [~Egoz@202.70.51.143] has quit [Disconnected by services] 03:32:27 -!- egoz_ is now known as taradadada 03:32:33 -!- taradadada is now known as egoz 03:34:39 smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:35:56 drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:45:06 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:48:48 wormphlegm [wormphlegm@c-24-17-108-64.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:48:50 hohoho [~hohoho@2002:6fbc:43b7:d:21e:c2ff:feb4:2a5d] has joined #lisp 03:49:43 Good morning! 03:50:26 -!- 77CAAMA39 is now known as maden 03:50:50 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:51:29 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.96.81] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:52:02 -!- egoz [~Egoz@202.70.51.143] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:55:00 morning, beach 04:10:51 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:11:25 konr [~user@201.82.133.249] has joined #lisp 04:12:24 eslick [~eslick@c-76-19-65-104.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:16:34 beach: hello 04:16:44 anyone aware of a tool that will iterate all external symbols of a package and spit out html using describe or some such? 04:17:03 HTML-TEMPLATE? 04:17:21 or at least something of similar name, it was. The thing used to generate docs for Ediware 04:19:49 -!- eslick [~eslick@c-76-19-65-104.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 04:24:48 looks interesting, thanks p_l 04:25:44 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 04:28:53 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-jlerfzbcmzyescub] has joined #lisp 04:29:00 -!- jcowan [~jcowan@cpe-98-14-172-204.nyc.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 04:31:21 beach: how complete is SICL? Assuming various primitives are supplied, including runtime support (GC etc)? 04:34:13 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 04:36:41 -!- smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:38:37 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-35-82-250-207-193.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:41:46 -!- zeroish [~zeroish@c-76-98-192-104.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:44:08 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-lrnwsvtvcdinkoht] has joined #lisp 04:46:47 PuffTheMagic [~quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 04:49:04 -!- nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:49:32 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.139.47] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:51:18 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.] 04:51:32 ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 04:51:34 hello 04:51:37 -!- PuffTheMagic [~quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:52:47 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-27-82-248-62-173.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 04:55:12 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:55:18 mishoo [~mishoo@host254-107-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 05:01:59 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-16-247-61.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:02:23 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-16-247-61.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:07:11 *p_l* suddenly recalls why plists sounded familiar: R2RS! 05:08:02 enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-252-170-129.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:10:08 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 05:12:46 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 05:14:33 beach` [~user@ABordeaux-158-1-51-156.w90-16.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 05:15:53 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 05:18:02 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-158-1-79-243.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:18:09 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:22:45 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 05:22:54 p_l: It is not complete at all. We are starting with the stuff that can be implemented using only lower-level CL primitives (reader, format, loop, sequences, high-level cons stuff, etc). 05:23:03 -!- beach` is now known as beach 05:23:17 ASau` [~user@77.246.230.80] has joined #lisp 05:23:41 p_l: And even those modules are not complete. 05:24:16 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:24:56 -!- Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Absquatulandus sum] 05:25:25 beach: actually, I'm looking most forward to only the high-level stuff. 05:25:39 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:25:40 got some ideas regarding low-level implementation etc. 05:26:07 Have you seen sacla? 05:26:18 poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has joined #lisp 05:26:26 p_l: Yeah, that's the main idea with the project. Provide the high-level stuff to anyone who wants to experiment with implementations, but who doesn't want to take the time to write all the rest. 05:26:30 Zhivago: yes. Makes for interesting reading. 05:26:36 Zhivago: Yes. 05:29:22 -!- Dodek [dodek@wikipedia/Dodek] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:30:23 -!- maden [~maden@dsl-159-87.aei.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:33:40 -!- ntd [~user@daneel.cc.gt.atl.ga.us] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:34:06 -!- levene [levene@lanczos.maths.tcd.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:34:06 -!- rsynnott [rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:35:04 what is all this annoying useless crap in files: -*- Mode: Lisp; Syntax: Common-Lisp; Package: XLIB; -*- 05:35:14 rsynnott [rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has joined #lisp 05:35:31 levene [levene@lanczos.maths.tcd.ie] has joined #lisp 05:35:53 Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-198-92.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:36:50 bytecolor: hints to tell the editor how to parse the file 05:37:13 hrm 05:37:44 Davidbrcz [david@212-198-91-47.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 05:37:52 Ralith: so it's an emacs thing? 05:38:37 I have yet to see one that actually tells emacs something it doesn't know 05:38:49 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:38:54 so if it is, it's pointless in this day and age. 05:39:02 Ralith: that's what I mean by useless ;) 05:39:14 well this is old code, so 05:39:28 emacs wasn't always as smart 05:39:32 Copyright (c) 1988 05:39:48 yeeaahh 05:39:49 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 05:41:08 ntd [~user@daneel.cc.gt.atl.ga.us] has joined #lisp 05:42:54 -!- levene [levene@lanczos.maths.tcd.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:43:10 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 05:43:34 -!- rsynnott [rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:43:41 rsynnott [rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has joined #lisp 05:43:47 levene [levene@lanczos.maths.tcd.ie] has joined #lisp 05:45:56 -!- Davidbrcz [david@212-198-91-47.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:46:00 bytecolor: what are you doing hacking on CLX? ;-) 05:47:51 back in the old days there was several common lisp dialects on the same lisp machine, so you had to specify one with Syntax 05:48:30 -!- rrice [~rrice@76.211.6.129] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:48:51 -!- varjagg is now known as varjag 05:48:56 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:51:00 PuffTheMagic [~quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 05:52:32 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:52:47 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-198-92.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:53:03 Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-208-105.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:53:13 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 05:55:31 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:01:06 -!- wormphlegm [wormphlegm@c-24-17-108-64.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 06:01:30 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 06:02:38 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 06:03:15 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.69.94] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:03:33 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:04:08 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 06:04:39 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:04:42 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.237] has joined #lisp 06:04:59 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 06:07:14 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-252-170-129.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:09:07 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Quit: palter] 06:11:14 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:11:46 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 06:13:23 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-225-199-195.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: night] 06:13:35 ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 06:14:35 -!- poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has quit [Quit: poet] 06:15:34 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:16:05 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-127-121.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:16:09 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 06:17:14 fusss: just noodling as usual 06:18:14 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:18:46 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 06:20:33 -!- lithper1_ [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:20:34 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:20:44 fusss: I was just contemplating what it would take to cobble up a small gui toolkit directly on top of clx 06:21:06 bytecolor: many have thought the same 06:21:10 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.66.180] has joined #lisp 06:21:10 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 06:21:27 bytecolor: it's just ugly. use a gtk/qt binding instead :-P 06:21:36 mcclim is small, for some values of small 06:22:18 nod, but I could make the widgets 'look' however I wanted, I went so far as to d/l an ancient version of Qt, just to look at the kernel code. 06:22:25 *bytecolor* is a fan of Qt 06:22:46 MetaMucil [~Omeras@99-2-200-244.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:23:20 One prerequisite: no fscking clos! 06:23:46 i recently came across a book at work for DIY GUI programming using directx 06:24:11 the author makes labels, buttons, text widgets, etc. out of basic 3d primitives 06:24:27 bytecolor: you take that back, i'm a fan of CLOS! 06:24:42 fusss: I've been playing with SDL for a little while, the thought crossed my mind. I found a gui kit written in sdl. 06:24:46 stassats: no! ;) 06:25:39 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:25:40 -!- xan_ [~xan@87.223.161.65] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:25:59 xan_ [~xan@87.223.161.65] has joined #lisp 06:26:05 clos is awesome. i debugged hunchentoot by putting :before methods around the entire call-graph for request processing :-) 06:26:12 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 06:26:22 I'm not ready for clos. To me it just increases the angle of this ski ramp Im ascending. 06:27:13 -!- drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:30:54 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:31:34 -!- quodlibetor [~user@ool-45723726.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:31:43 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 06:32:43 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@host254-107-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:34:04 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.237] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:35:29 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0153-74-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:36:38 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 06:41:41 -!- coyo [~unf@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: ACTION closes window in a panic] 06:44:41 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:46:18 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has joined #lisp 06:52:50 Dodek [dodek@wikipedia/Dodek] has joined #lisp 06:54:06 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 06:57:36 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 06:57:43 bytecolor: sonya keene's book went down smoothly for me. a weekend of fun. 06:59:54 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:01:20 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:03:11 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:03:47 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 07:04:02 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:05:42 mishoo [~mishoo@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:06:16 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:06:47 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 07:07:17 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:07:54 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 07:09:17 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:10:13 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 07:10:19 splittist [~bc3ef51e@gateway/web/freenode/x-xyshftadjalllaxb] has joined #lisp 07:10:32 morning #lisp, morning #lispers 07:11:36 dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:12:34 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:13:08 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 07:15:49 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:16:38 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 07:18:03 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:18:38 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 07:20:03 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:20:11 -!- Intensity [x12AOrk9ku@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:23:46 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:24:14 good morning 07:25:32 _6502_ [~5895bdc9@gateway/web/freenode/x-nmmicpwyykwlfbwu] has joined #lisp 07:27:31 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:28:08 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 07:28:42 hello lispers 07:29:27 jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 07:30:36 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-158-1-51-156.w90-16.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:32:06 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:34:26 -!- erg [~erg@li13-154.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:35:18 -!- _6502_ [~5895bdc9@gateway/web/freenode/x-nmmicpwyykwlfbwu] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:35:19 Soulman [~knute@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 07:35:46 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-153-248.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:46:44 potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f6634a9-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 07:46:54 fusss_ [~chatzilla@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:47:06 kvsari [~kvsari@203.171.93.21.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:47:16 -!- Thomas_H [~Thomas_H@d207-6-77-199.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-] 07:48:19 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:49:10 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279634139.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:49:12 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279634139.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 07:52:06 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 07:52:10 demmeln [~Adium@dslb-188-098-211-160.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:53:52 electrodev455 [~electrode@c-98-255-202-231.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:54:12 erg [~erg@li13-154.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 07:54:16 -!- demmeln [~Adium@dslb-188-098-211-160.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 07:55:43 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 07:55:43 hi there. i've been looking around for an FTP library for CL that can do FTP with SSL or FTP over SSH, and i haven't found anything promising. is there a decent solution available for this? 07:56:06 (run-program "ftp") 07:57:48 Guthur [~michael@host86-137-237-51.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 07:57:51 d'oh. 07:59:24 Don't know about decent, but there's something called cl-ftp listed on cliki. 07:59:59 And Franz has an open source FTP server in Lisp, don't know whether there's a client hidden in there, too. 08:00:38 lichtblau: yeah, i've looked at the cliki resources - the projects seem to keep coming and going, and secure ftp of any form seems to be back-burnered from what i can tell. ... or possibly not on the stove at all :-/ 08:01:49 guess it may be time to integrate some creative wget or something.... thank you both for your help, though! 08:02:56 Well, the FTP stuff in Allegro would be supported by Franz professionally, and it includes a client. AFAICT though, only the server part is open source. 08:05:07 lichtblau: i wonder if it would even work on lisps other than ACL (which i dont use) 08:05:55 electrodev455: possibly, portable secure ftp is suffering from the fact that SSL itself hasn't been implemented in portable lisp yet. Most implementations use a foreign library to provide the service. 08:06:27 electrodev455: you may want to port it to usocket, indeed. 08:06:28 ehu: aaaah - that explains a LOT. 08:07:13 heard of usocket, i'll look into it and various other options. thank you all! ^.^ 08:07:16 well, SSL is mostly a #+allegro #-allegro business, with CL+SSL working more less everywhere except on Allegro, while Allegro has its own API that works instead 08:08:15 for secure sockets, there's no api in usocket though 08:08:19 unfortunately 08:09:14 i wouldn't trust a ssl implementation in Lisp 08:10:02 *ehu* expects a 'because' 08:10:28 plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-18-123.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:10:38 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-64-215.ipnets.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:11:13 clapautius [~me@188.26.173.95] has joined #lisp 08:12:29 While the use of an ad-hoc SSL library less well tested than major players like OpenSSL would go strongly against security, the little use it would see among the few people who run pure lisp stuff from their home directory would probably count against the likelihood of anyone actually exploiting a weakness. 08:12:33 a) no thorough testing b) i'd like it to be written by someone who is an expert in cryptography 08:13:20 t3eblinder [~wolfgang@eap111054.extern.uni-tuebingen.de] has joined #lisp 08:14:03 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:14:06 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-64-215.ipnets.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 08:15:13 E.g., the risk of someone's CLIM mail client having a vulnerability due to SSL is laughable compared to, say, Debian SSH being wide open on millions of servers and workstations. 08:15:55 If in return Hunchentoot is easier to install in its default configuration, that would be worthwile. And writing that SSL library would probably be fun. 08:19:01 speaking of installing hunchentoot 08:19:15 lift not installing far ya? 08:19:43 varjag pasted "LIFT build problem on SBCL" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98816 08:19:51 right! 08:20:00 known issue? 08:20:54 varjag: everytime I open #lisp this last week someone has been asking about installing lift. But it was not this issue for sure. 08:21:38 i just done (asdf-install:install :hunchentoot), and that's where it comes to die 08:21:40 *schme* is not sure which package "MOP" is. 08:21:42 hoh. 08:21:45 me neither 08:22:01 varjag: I think the recommended way to hunchentoot is clbuild. 08:22:21 oh ok.. 08:22:24 beaumonta [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 08:22:47 *varjag* hasn't kept up with cl ecosystem for a while 08:23:05 -!- beaumonta is now known as abeaumont_ 08:23:16 (: 08:23:18 Me neither. 08:23:43 demmeln [~Adium@dslb-188-098-211-160.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 08:23:45 hlavaty [~user@77-22-100-58-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:25:17 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 08:26:03 Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.233] has joined #lisp 08:27:52 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!] 08:28:51 -!- demmeln [~Adium@dslb-188-098-211-160.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 08:31:10 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 08:33:12 I just tried clbuild there on hunchentoot, worked well, it didn't pick up trivial-backtrace though 08:33:45 i believe it's a new dependence 08:33:47 But it wasn't a major issue, clbuild seems quite a decent way to grab repos 08:35:04 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:35:05 The size of the downloads can mean a bit of a wait, but that's the only thing I would really have issue with 08:35:25 The rest of the process is relatively painless 08:36:03 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has left #lisp 08:38:37 abdoo-mahran [~ericsson@sealip01.ericsson.net] has joined #lisp 08:45:31 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279634139.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:46:08 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.233] has quit [*.net *.split] 08:46:08 -!- potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f6634a9-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 08:46:08 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.66.180] has quit [*.net *.split] 08:46:08 -!- dys` [~andreas@krlh-5f7267eb.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 08:46:08 -!- Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has quit [*.net *.split] 08:46:08 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082C2C6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 08:46:08 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [*.net *.split] 08:46:08 -!- Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 08:46:08 -!- lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-4-76.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 08:46:08 -!- tomaw [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has quit [*.net *.split] 08:46:08 -!- toxygen [toxygen@stip-static-98.213-81-186.telecom.sk] has quit [*.net *.split] 08:46:08 -!- felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 08:46:08 -!- johnzorn [~jz@206-248-152-28.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 08:46:08 -!- ennen [~nn@studio25.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 08:46:08 -!- df_aldur [~df@aldur.bowerham.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 08:46:19 potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f6634a9-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 08:47:28 Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.233] has joined #lisp 08:47:28 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.66.180] has joined #lisp 08:47:28 dys` [~andreas@krlh-5f7267eb.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:47:28 Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has joined #lisp 08:47:28 daniel [~daniel@p5082C2C6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:47:28 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 08:47:28 Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:47:28 lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-4-76.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:47:28 tomaw [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has joined #lisp 08:47:28 toxygen [toxygen@stip-static-98.213-81-186.telecom.sk] has joined #lisp 08:47:28 johnzorn [~jz@206-248-152-28.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 08:47:28 ennen [~nn@studio25.org] has joined #lisp 08:47:28 df_aldur [~df@aldur.bowerham.net] has joined #lisp 08:48:48 i have an odd, but hopefully interesting, question: is it possible/practical to use lisp to serve web pages through cgi? 08:49:09 it's impractical for any language 08:49:58 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440232.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 08:50:18 stassats: thats what i kind of figured. i have experience with many things, but cgi isn't one of them.... is there any practical way to serve pages with lisp on a shared web hosting account then? (im assuming not) 08:50:38 minion: hunchentoot? 08:50:39 hunchentoot: Hunchentoot is a web server written in Common Lisp and at the same time a toolkit for building dynamic websites. http://www.cliki.net/hunchentoot 08:50:48 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:52:38 i knew it was a web server, didn't realize it could do the rest though. ill experiment - ty 08:52:56 check out cl-who as well 08:53:07 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 08:53:15 hey 08:53:56 And parenscript if you want to create javascript using a lisp like syntax 08:54:41 Guthur: will do - thank you! i think its about time i got out of everyone's hair for the night :) 08:55:18 electrodev455, No problem at all 08:55:48 -!- electrodev455 [~electrode@c-98-255-202-231.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:56:11 Good morning! 08:56:43 any ELS goes still around? 08:56:46 -!- hlavaty [~user@77-22-100-58-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:56:49 goers, even 08:58:21 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:00:44 hlavaty [~user@77-22-100-58-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:03:07 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-9-177.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 09:05:06 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-14-247.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:07:30 I am not there yet, but I am going. 09:13:19 -!- galdor [galdor@def92-10-88-162-192-107.fbx.proxad.net] has left #lisp 09:14:21 stassats: do you know why when mouse over, it displays many rectangles instead of just one? See http://imagebin.org/95685 09:14:59 no, i don't know 09:15:02 -!- dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:15:18 leo2007: and regarding your buffer names patch, it doesn't apply cleanly 09:15:31 some merge conflicts 09:15:47 in slime-fuzzy.el? 09:16:57 felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has joined #lisp 09:17:03 stassats annotated #98472 "conflicts" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98472#5 09:18:59 dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:19:46 -!- abdoo-mahran [~ericsson@sealip01.ericsson.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:20:37 nikodemus: are you coming to ELS too? 09:21:09 bus error at #XB19CC31, oh well, and how am i supposed to debug this? 09:21:22 luis: yes! 09:21:25 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.237] has joined #lisp 09:21:28 BTW, I'm going to ELS and I'm currently living in Lisbon if anyone needs help getting around. 09:21:42 spiaggia: which hotel? 09:22:14 (i don't have one yet, so i'm trying to make a reservation in a place that has other participants as well) 09:23:58 Intensity [jCTt1i1fVH@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 09:25:02 jgracin [~jgracin@dh111-186.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 09:25:16 stassats: in the rejs did you see any text conflicts, I suspect it might be just spaces. 09:27:32 i don't understand how to interpret these .rej 09:28:02 -!- hlavaty [~user@77-22-100-58-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:29:15 i guess that's because of fuzz, did you edit them by had 09:30:21 by hand? 09:31:09 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.72.104] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:31:15 leo2007 annotated #98472 "re-generate" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98472#6 09:31:27 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-jlerfzbcmzyescub] has left #lisp 09:31:37 hlavaty [~user@77-22-100-58-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:31:49 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 09:31:55 now it went cleanly 09:32:00 stassats: could you try that instead? I applies on my slime from Sat May 1 16:51:33 2010 +0100 09:32:35 stassats: sorry about inconvenience. I think it is due to me setting indent-tabs-mode to nil. 09:33:18 -!- ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:33:45 ok, i'll review and commit it later 09:34:01 stassats: thx 09:36:31 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-zeofewtihiexkhci] has joined #lisp 09:44:11 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@2002:6fbc:43b7:d:21e:c2ff:feb4:2a5d] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:45:15 -!- hlavaty [~user@77-22-100-58-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:47:59 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:48:44 hlavaty [~user@77-22-100-58-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:52:19 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 09:53:57 hohoho [~hohoho@2002:6fbc:5957:d:21e:c2ff:feb4:2a5d] has joined #lisp 09:53:57 -!- ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:54:01 ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 09:56:53 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.19] has joined #lisp 09:57:30 oh, apparently mmap doesn't like empty files for writing, i like these error messages, it takes only 30 minutes to figure out 10:00:39 -!- dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:02:06 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:05:14 -!- randa [~randa@94.99.50.84.sta.estpak.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:05:28 randa [~randa@94.99.50.84.sta.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 10:09:39 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 10:10:04 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:11:59 jasonjgw [~user@2001:44b8:702a:4770::2] has joined #lisp 10:12:21 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 10:14:39 Edward_ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-3-26.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:16:11 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-zeofewtihiexkhci] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:16:22 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-eofkfnhojkcmgwkn] has joined #lisp 10:16:29 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-eofkfnhojkcmgwkn] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:20:55 -!- jasonjgw [~user@2001:44b8:702a:4770::2] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:21:27 Yuuhi [benni@p54839F9B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:25:26 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:28:03 Edward__ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-40-50.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:30:37 -!- Edward_ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-3-26.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:32:19 seems that using mmap for writing is faster, despite having to calculate beforehand the amount of data to be written 10:35:23 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:36:21 is 'n' the defacto standard prefix for signaling a fn that may modify its args? Like scheme has the ! suffix 10:36:55 it's somewhat common 10:37:23 bytecolor: yes, though it actually comes from "non-consing" 10:37:39 and there are functions that modify their arguments but don't have that 10:37:45 interesting, nod 10:37:57 it is mostly used when there are two variants 10:41:51 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:43:58 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:45:03 hi kiuma 10:46:48 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.97.1] 10:47:11 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-208-105.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:47:32 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-193-105.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 10:52:27 demmeln [~Adium@lapradig96.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 10:54:34 -!- rhadamant [~rhadamant@v31835.1blu.de] has left #lisp 10:56:30 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-xwiiucmolwzuddnt] has joined #lisp 10:56:41 tcr [~tcr@lapradig98.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 10:57:01 -!- demmeln [~Adium@lapradig96.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:00:27 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-193-105.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:01:01 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-230-206.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 11:04:02 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 11:08:03 dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:09:54 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-230-206.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:10:14 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-230-21.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 11:11:17 -!- TR2N [email@89-180-231-59.net.novis.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:11:51 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@82-171-137-254.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 11:12:22 demmeln [~Adium@lapradig96.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 11:15:27 laynor [~892b9a59@gateway/web/freenode/x-kzhjdnhxfcanztbl] has joined #lisp 11:19:48 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:26:05 I'm continuing work on my AI project, and starting to think of perfrmance a bit now. I profiled my code and found most of the time is done computing the attribute distance as a vector. The example at the bottom of the comment explains what comes out of it. It runs prett y quickly, but over the total number of calls I'm doing it's eating up most of the processing. Is there anything, optimization wise, that anyone can suggest me doing 11:26:05 for making this more efficient? https://gist.github.com/c69641cda40e93a4f284 11:26:51 and if there are any general my code sucks and should fix it in some other ways, I'd appreciate that for learning purposes :) 11:27:39 -!- ok [~ok@2002:5cfa:e261::1] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:28:42 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 11:29:01 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 11:30:08 -!- cmsimon [~iamcms2@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [] 11:33:31 plage [~user@serveur5.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 11:33:36 Good afternoon! 11:35:19 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:36:43 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:39:56 carlocci [~nes@93.37.201.177] has joined #lisp 11:40:45 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 11:41:37 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 11:41:41 hello plage 11:41:51 hey mvilleneuve 11:42:56 The wifi connection is a bit flaky here. 11:43:19 TDT: first suggestion: use hash-tables instead of alists 11:44:23 ost` [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 11:44:23 -!- ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:44:33 mvilleneuve: Did you get my email concerning the cl.net project? 11:45:27 stassats: That'll require quite a bit of changing things out, but I'll give that a try. Is that the main problem that's causing the speed issues? 11:45:49 TDT: i don't know! 11:46:06 plage: yes, I'll try to do as much as I can before monday 11:46:13 but if you used the right abstractions, the change would be trivial 11:46:15 mvilleneuve: Thanks! 11:47:23 stassats: yeah, this may give the opportunity for me to write those abstractions..right now I don't have them..let me stick up a function I'm using to write to the acp - sec. 11:49:20 hi, is there a function just like delete that also returns the number of elements deleted from the list? 11:49:48 No 11:49:52 laynor: I was in need of something like that before, had to write my own 11:49:52 delete! 11:50:15 laynor: Compare the length before and after. 11:50:36 (actuallyl, what I needed was to know if the delete actually found anything, but similar enough to yours) 11:50:40 stassats: https://gist.github.com/b512539f955664b74f2c -- for some reason I kinda default to using alists as my structure of choice, not sure why...but the abstractions you're talking about would be helpful here. 11:50:55 plage: isn't it going to scan the list each time I call length? 11:51:00 (let ((count 0)) (values (delete x list :test (lambda (x y) (when (eql x y) (incf count)))) count)) 11:51:22 or delete-if 11:51:28 laynor: Yes. Does that worry you? 11:52:09 plaege yeah, It's inside an inner loop 11:52:21 (let ((count 0)) (values (delete-if (lambda (y) (when (eql x y) (incf count))) list) count)) 11:52:29 stassats: thanks, i'm going to use that :) 11:53:16 laynor: Let me bet that this version will take longer than length + delete + length. 11:53:36 [just guessing of course] 11:53:43 right, function call for every element, vs traversing each twice 11:53:48 schoppenhauer [~senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 11:53:53 erm, three times 11:54:14 of course, if you loop it yourself, you avoid the lambda call overhead 11:55:04 shouldn't the compiler be able to inline the lambda there? 11:55:07 you're assuming that delete won't have function calls 11:55:22 well, that's an additional one 11:55:47 laynor: sbcl does inlining for mapcar/mapc, but I don't think for any more complex traversals 11:55:57 but it might, checkt he disassembly 11:56:03 -!- felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:57:12 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 11:57:16 Phoodus: I'm actually inside a dotimes :) 11:57:37 well, disassemble the whole thing and see if there's a callout to some generic delete function in there 11:58:13 (unless the dotimes body gets compiled into a closure or something) 11:58:26 i have to delete the first k lowest values in a list, any better idea than using delete with the minimum of the list each time? (I know I can sort, but would like to avoid slow sorting operations) 11:59:02 how long is the list? 11:59:18 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:59:27 did you do profiling already? 11:59:31 actualy, regardless of length, you could keep an array of the N lowest values maintained during a single pass 11:59:50 then make another pass, copying only those elements not equal to those values 11:59:59 not the easiest to write, but should be fast 12:00:07 -!- schoppenhauer [~senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:00:50 but if k is a small number, then doing it the simple way might be faster 12:01:06 you never really know until you try and time it 12:01:34 and definitely benchmark it against sort + cull 12:02:55 stassats: not yet :) but it's likely to be a slow part of the code (it's in the inner loop, I expect the list to be long in most iterations etc) 12:03:25 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:03:28 if it's a very long list, then sort would spend a lot of time reording non-smallest items whose order does not matter 12:03:31 mhmh, I think I'll just put a note on it and for now just sort and take the first k elements 12:03:43 Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.233] has joined #lisp 12:03:50 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:04:02 and write ugly code only after profiling 12:04:03 ^^ 12:04:20 Good decision. 12:04:20 step 1: make it work. step 2: IF NECESSARY, make it work faster 12:05:06 I should paste something on my desk reminding me about early optimization 12:05:35 If you find yourself needing that a lot, a list is not a good data structure. 12:05:48 Priority queues can be good for it. 12:05:53 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-153-248.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:06:01 sbcl has one you can rip out if you like. 12:06:14 in my project, which is deliberately unoptimized for flexibility, gets faster every time we add features 12:07:58 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:10:19 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0153-74-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 12:11:25 -!- tcr [~tcr@lapradig98.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:12:02 Xach: going to point it out somwhere :) The list is freshly created and just used for that calculation though, so I guess it wouldn't be faster having to create the priority list each time. 12:12:59 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:13:25 davazp [~user@ucaip182.uca.es] has joined #lisp 12:14:46 laynor: What is the nature of the elements? Numbers? Integers? Compact domain? 12:15:29 TR2N [email@89.180.147.193] has joined #lisp 12:15:55 ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 12:16:17 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181058025.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:16:50 plage: vectors 12:16:59 oh 12:17:06 no sorry, it's numbers 12:17:18 compact or wide spread. 12:17:25 float/doubles normally i would say 12:18:04 uhm, i'd say they are inside a predefined interval (0, epsilon] 12:18:54 yeah, I checked back and I'm sure about it 12:21:44 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:22:53 Has anyone suggested not using lists as the first step in (micro or not)optimising a program? 12:23:55 i think it was a suggestion to use more suitable datastructure instead of lists 12:24:33 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 12:25:15 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 12:26:47 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 12:28:04 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 12:29:07 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:32:51 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 12:33:10 -!- christop` [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:37:25 christop` [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 12:39:02 nowhereman [pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:40:02 asarch [~asarch@189.188.159.95] has joined #lisp 12:40:21 -!- nowhere_man [pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:42:58 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:43:59 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 12:47:15 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:48:21 billstclair [~billstcla@dsl-65-219-212-221.taconic.net] has joined #lisp 12:48:21 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@dsl-65-219-212-221.taconic.net] has quit [Changing host] 12:48:21 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 12:50:22 rrice [~rrice@76.211.6.129] has joined #lisp 12:52:28 DamienCassou [~cassou@tsuichoi.bordeaux.inria.fr] has joined #lisp 12:52:36 hi 12:52:46 Hey DamienCassou 12:53:07 I've just install sbcl 1.0.38 and slime from clbuild. Emacs keeps on saying 'not connected' 12:53:29 DamienCassou: Did you use "M-x slime" to start slime? 12:53:32 sure 12:53:40 you should be connected to the lisp mob to use it 12:54:02 I tried both with M-x slime and 'clbuild slime'. Same result 12:54:13 what is the lisp mob ? 12:54:22 DamienCassou: it says this after what operations? 12:55:05 either M-x slime and '$ clbuild slime' results in Loading /home/cassou/Documents/clbuild/source/slime/slime.el (source)... 12:55:06 ad-handle-definition: `slime-note.message' got redefined 12:55:06 Loading /home/cassou/Documents/clbuild/source/slime/slime.el (source)...done 12:55:06 or: Not connected. 12:55:16 in the *Messages* buffer 12:55:19 -!- ost` [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:55:47 *inferior-lisp* seems to be ok, I can type things in 12:55:53 but slime does not start 12:57:18 anyone has the same problem? 12:57:52 I'm on ubuntu 10.4, and I've installed sbcl using the file provided by their website 12:58:16 -!- DamienCassou [~cassou@tsuichoi.bordeaux.inria.fr] has left #lisp 12:58:24 DamienCassou [~cassou@tsuichoi.bordeaux.inria.fr] has joined #lisp 12:58:42 is there anyone? 12:58:56 i'm back 12:59:02 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:59:09 have you received my messages? 12:59:19 minion: please tell DamienCassou about logs 12:59:19 DamienCassou: look at logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 12:59:40 DamienCassou: I see your messages. I have not had that problem. 13:01:06 DamienCassou: did you have slime installed from ubuntu? 13:01:26 no, I've installed slime using clbuild 13:01:27 segmond [~seg@adsl-99-40-252-150.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:01:32 never? 13:01:41 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:02:11 never 13:02:59 a '$ locate slime' only indicates files in my home directory 13:03:34 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 13:04:08 Xach: do you have the same configuration ? 13:04:22 i don't see how that can happen 13:04:27 hrm, so if you create a class, how doth one overload the ctor? with a defmethod wrapper? 13:04:30 hello DamienCassou 13:04:37 DamienCassou: are you using clbuild's config? 13:04:40 DamienCassou: no. i use sbcl and slime from cvs. i don't use clbuild. 13:04:47 mvilleneuve: hi 13:04:53 bytecolor: methods added to initialize-instance or shared-initialize, usually. 13:05:01 bytecolor: :before or :after 13:05:14 stassats: yes, I copy/pasted the result 13:05:25 hrm, more reading to do ;) 13:07:24 bytecolor: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/object-reorientation-classes.html has some initialize-instance examples. 13:07:44 ah, thanks Xach 13:08:06 no one has any clue ? I'm stuck right now and I have some student projects to test 13:08:25 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:09:02 not a slightest clue 13:09:34 perhaps ubuntu's emacs is braindamaged? 13:10:13 I'm using ubuntu's emacs with latest slime and no problems 13:10:24 10.4? 13:10:32 yep 13:11:06 lisppaste: url? 13:11:06 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 13:11:15 DamienCassou: can you paste full contents of *inferior-lisp* and *slime-events* 13:12:22 -!- davazp [~user@ucaip182.uca.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:12:36 stassats: 10.4 yes 13:13:15 -!- billitch1 [~billitch@dslb-088-075-059-205.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:14:27 -!- lejoon [~lejoon@h-63-40.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:15:04 DamienCassou: but can you paste? 13:15:36 stassats: it's easy, *inferior-lisp* equals exactly what 'sbcl -version' prints. Nothings more. I don't have any *slime-events* buffer 13:15:55 dlowe: can you tell me how you installed everything? 13:15:59 DamienCassou: is ./clbuild lisp working? 13:16:58 udzinari: it starts sbcl 13:17:17 stassats: do you still want me to past *inferior-lisp*? 13:17:36 yeah 13:17:50 since there's not much else to paste 13:18:10 DamienCassou: I installed emacs and sbcl via package, then downloaded the sbcl source and rebuilt it. I uninstalled the ubuntu sbcl, then installed the latest sbcl. Then I downloaded the slime source and stuck that in my .sbcl/site directory 13:18:19 DamienCassou pasted "*inferior-lisp*" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98825 13:19:22 dlowe: why didn't you use precompiled sbcl? 13:20:58 bloody darcs, it's slower than cvs 13:21:15 DamienCassou: the latest sbcl often has bug fixes and optimizations I want. 13:21:41 also, the debian team has historically not kept it very up-to-date 13:21:55 dlowe: when you say you downloaded the slime source, do you mean through cvs? 13:22:04 though the situation looks better right now than it has in the past 13:22:23 DamienCassou: yeah. I use a git mirror actually, but it's from the repo 13:22:29 froydnj [~froydnj@gateway.codesourcery.com] has joined #lisp 13:22:39 i fetched clbuild, and now i can reproduce 13:22:53 stassats: exact same symptoms? 13:23:26 yes 13:23:32 stassats: cool 13:25:08 dlowe: did you move the whole repository to .sbcl/site? 13:26:16 DamienCassou: yeah. then I linked the swank.asd file into .sbcl/systems/ 13:26:32 ok 13:26:41 what does your .emacs look like? 13:26:51 dlowe: what does your .emacs look like? 13:27:39 -!- plage [~user@serveur5.labri.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:28:06 dlowe pasted "Slime .emacs" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98828 13:28:16 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 13:29:33 i see a commit which broke it 13:29:48 what's broken? 13:29:54 slime! 13:29:57 ahh 13:30:17 which date, I'm using SLIME 2010-04-20. 13:30:25 revae [~revae@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 13:30:50 maden [~maden@dsl-147-127.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 13:31:00 it's not reproducible right away 13:31:40 -!- jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:31:47 dlowe: exact same error by reproducing your setup 13:32:16 dlowe: could you try to update slime to see if the bug appears? (you may want to backup first :-)) 13:32:17 mpr312 [~chatzilla@pool-74-101-147-57.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:32:19 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-64-215.ipnets.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:32:29 DamienCassou: you can stop asking dlowe question, i'm already onto it 13:32:35 -!- demmeln [~Adium@lapradig96.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has left #lisp 13:33:08 stassats: I'm just trying to understand why it works on his computer. If it's a bug of slime, it should work on his computer either 13:33:25 I may not have the particular change 13:33:25 shouldn't 13:33:29 it's a bug in slime 13:34:56 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 13:36:06 DamienCassou: temporary workaround: remove slime-tramp from slime-setup 13:37:00 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@2002:6fbc:5957:d:21e:c2ff:feb4:2a5d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:38:04 stassats: I confirm the workaround is working. Thank you 13:38:21 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:42:04 cmsimon [~iamcms2@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 13:44:23 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:44:25 -!- fusss_ [~chatzilla@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:45:14 billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 13:45:14 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Changing host] 13:45:14 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 13:46:02 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:49:04 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:49:17 Joreji [~thomas@65-219.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:51:22 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 13:54:14 tcr [~tcr@lapradig98.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 13:54:24 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 13:54:38 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0153-74-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:55:17 marioxcc [~user@200.92.160.142] has joined #lisp 13:55:27 i committed a fix, which should work with slime-tramp 13:58:13 -!- tcr [~tcr@lapradig98.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has left #lisp 13:59:53 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:59:59 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0153-74-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 14:02:22 demmeln [~Adium@lapradig96.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has joined #lisp 14:02:26 -!- t3eblinder [~wolfgang@eap111054.extern.uni-tuebingen.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:03:16 -!- demmeln [~Adium@lapradig96.informatik.tu-muenchen.de] has quit [Client Quit] 14:03:52 billitch [~billitch@g225020037.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:04:08 Tritonio_GR [~Tritonio@ppp-94-64-174-96.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 14:04:32 hello! 14:04:51 Hello Tritonio_GR 14:05:01 being Evas_Object a pointer in CFFI what x and y shoud be in this function void elm_win_screen_position_get(const Evas_Object *obj, int *x, int *y) and how do I get their values? 14:05:25 -!- Joreji [~thomas@65-219.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:05:29 stassats: thank you very much. How can I get the fix? It seems that 'cvs up' does not reveal it 14:06:00 spiaggia: hello :-) 14:06:34 Congratulations to finding a bug, and a temporary fix for it! 14:06:57 -!- potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f6634a9-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [] 14:07:03 kiuma: can you rephrase that? 14:07:07 Tritonio_GR: Are you new here? 14:07:11 i have a question. I am using CLISP and to define a function like mean average I have to type: (defun average (x y) (/ (+ x y) 2) ) right? What I don't understand is why the argument list doesn't need an apostrophe. I though that without an apostrophe, Lisp would evaluate the list as an expression before calling defun. 14:07:23 spiaggia: yes i am totaly new to the room and to lisp. :-) 14:07:40 DamienCassou: mvilleneuve has created the sicl project on cl.net. 14:07:47 spiaggia: I haven't found a temporary fix, stassats did. 14:08:01 -!- billitch [~billitch@g225020037.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:08:03 Tritonio_GR: defun is not a function so it has it's own rule of evaluation. 14:08:14 what is it then? a macro? 14:08:20 clhs defun 14:08:31 http://l1sp.org/cl/defun 14:08:35 Tritonio_GR: Yes, it's a macro. 14:08:39 Xach: Thanks. 14:08:54 *Xach* is not a bot, but plays one online 14:09:17 DamienCassou: Right, I didn't mean that *you* found it, just that you managed to figure out what to do in order to make it work. 14:10:12 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 14:10:19 spiaggia and Xach thank you very much! 14:10:30 Tritonio_GR: No problem. 14:10:48 i can now continue my project without remorse for not understanding it. :-) 14:10:55 DamienCassou: anonymous cvs lags behind for about 15 minutes 14:10:59 luis, in defcfun should X and Y be :pointer ? 14:11:10 DamienCassou: should be in by now 14:11:14 billitch [~billitch@g225020037.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:11:18 kiuma: yes, or (:pointer :int) 14:11:36 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:12:19 zoldar [~zoldar@ip6.ima.pl] has joined #lisp 14:12:27 Tritonio_GR: Did you read a book on CL? 14:12:35 Joreji [~thomas@86-084.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:12:51 ahh, ok (:pointer :int) sounds good. And then how do I read their values ? just threating X and Y as standard variables ? 14:13:26 spiaggia: i read some pdfs. 14:14:27 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0153-74-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has left #lisp 14:15:10 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-lrnwsvtvcdinkoht] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:17:33 -!- ThomasI [~thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:18:33 Tritonio_GR: There are some pretty good books available online such as Practical Common Liisp and A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation. 14:18:37 ajmrch [~asarch@189.188.143.104] has joined #lisp 14:19:47 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:19:57 -!- asarch [~asarch@189.188.159.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:20:27 i am reading parts fro this site now actually: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/cltl/clm/node239.html 14:20:47 along with the pdfs from my university. 14:20:52 stassats: I still don't see your commit 14:21:05 Tritonio_GR: that is a good book, but only after you know enough CL not to be confused by its inaccuracies 14:21:19 Tritonio_GR: it predates the final standard and differs from it. 14:21:36 ok i'll switch to PCL then. :-) 14:21:44 -!- billitch [~billitch@g225020037.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:22:45 DamienCassou: i can see it, look at the top of contrib/ChangeLog 14:23:00 maybe you missed messages from cvs 14:23:36 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:24:20 stassats: you are right. I just forgot that 'cvs log' in the root directory does not produce the same result as 'cvs log' in contrib/ 14:24:37 stassats: I forgot most of the things I learned about cvs 14:24:59 cvs log, i never had any luck using that command 14:25:48 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:26:04 stassats: things work perfectly, thank you 14:26:22 *spiaggia* takes off for ELS. 14:30:01 spiaggia: have a good trip 14:33:21 ok [~ok@2002:5cfa:e261::1] has joined #lisp 14:34:48 lithper1_ [~chatzilla@216.214.176.130] has joined #lisp 14:35:35 iPac [~bubble@p54AA4547.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:39 -!- Joreji [~thomas@86-084.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:36:42 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:36:56 -!- DamienCassou [~cassou@tsuichoi.bordeaux.inria.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:38:34 -!- jgracin [~jgracin@dh111-186.xnet.hr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:39:22 -!- mpr312 [~chatzilla@pool-74-101-147-57.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:39:25 Joreji [~thomas@86-084.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:39:41 jdz [~jdz@81.198.241.173] has joined #lisp 14:41:36 -!- zoldar [~zoldar@ip6.ima.pl] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:41:36 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:41:36 -!- ASau` [~user@77.246.230.80] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:41:36 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:41:36 -!- peddie [~peddie@adsl-99-56-136-219.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:41:36 -!- dym [~dym@217.20.175.226] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:41:36 -!- metasyntax [~taylor@pool-71-127-125-129.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:41:36 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:41:36 -!- phnglui [~phnglui@cpe-76-181-155-131.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:42:42 -!- Joreji [~thomas@86-084.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:42:44 -!- jdz [~jdz@81.198.241.173] has quit [Client Quit] 14:42:48 ASau` [~user@77.246.230.80] has joined #lisp 14:43:06 ikki [~ikki@189.139.232.136] has joined #lisp 14:44:57 billitch1 [~billitch@e179025041.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:46:52 Joreji [~thomas@86-084.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:48:25 Lis [~Lis@dialbs-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:48:35 -!- Lis [~Lis@dialbs-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:48:51 hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:49:04 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 14:49:35 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-xwiiucmolwzuddnt] has left #lisp 14:49:59 zoldar [~zoldar@ip6.ima.pl] has joined #lisp 14:49:59 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 14:49:59 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 14:49:59 peddie [~peddie@adsl-99-56-136-219.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:49:59 dym [~dym@217.20.175.226] has joined #lisp 14:49:59 metasyntax [~taylor@pool-71-127-125-129.aubnin.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:49:59 arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 14:49:59 phnglui [~phnglui@cpe-76-181-155-131.columbus.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:50:36 davertron [~Dave@vt-sb-1.logicsupply.com] has joined #lisp 14:52:32 vinnana [~pkensche@cmbipc58.cmbi.umcn.nl] has joined #lisp 14:52:43 does anyone here work on cl-irc? 14:52:47 Odin- [~sbkhh@hugmyndahus.hugmyndahus.is] has joined #lisp 14:52:54 minion? 14:53:08 funneh :p 14:53:32 I'm trying to figure out why it bombs out when the irc server disconnects 14:58:16 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-225-199-195.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:59:00 Lis [~Lis@dialbs-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:12 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 15:01:47 DamienCassou [~cassou@tsuichoi.bordeaux.inria.fr] has joined #lisp 15:02:11 does anyone know mcclim? How can I handle keystrokes? 15:02:52 Davidbrcz [david@212-198-91-47.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 15:03:35 felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has joined #lisp 15:03:45 clim define-command 15:03:51 -!- zoldar [~zoldar@ip6.ima.pl] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:04:12 specbot is still resting? 15:05:04 DamienCassou: http://bauhh.dyndns.org:8000/clim-spec/27-1.html#_1380 see :keystroke option 15:05:55 stassats: thank you, but this does not work :-) 15:06:13 stassats: I have tried a lot of combinations, but never managed to make a keystroke work 15:06:13 how do you use it? 15:06:56 (define-compta-command (com-add-entry :name t) 15:06:56 ((adder 'entry-adder :gesture :keystroke (:l :control)) ...) 15:07:01 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:07:29 try (#\l :control) 15:07:46 stassats: I've also tried (define-compta-command (com-add-entry :name t :keystroke (:l :control)) without much success 15:07:52 thank you 15:07:59 does it work? 15:08:30 not my version, I'm trying yours 15:10:14 I don't remember how to convert a pahtname to string path. Could you help me please ? 15:10:21 namestring 15:10:25 thanks 15:10:44 -!- kuwabara [~kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.2.6] 15:10:54 -!- ASau` [~user@77.246.230.80] has quit [Quit: off] 15:11:01 kuwabara [~kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.com] has joined #lisp 15:11:36 peddie_ [~peddie@adsl-99-38-151-183.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:12:30 -!- Joreji [~thomas@86-084.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:12:47 stassats: that worked!!! 15:12:58 great 15:13:07 stassats: thank you again 15:13:27 *stassats* adds a keystroke for his application too 15:14:43 -!- peddie [~peddie@adsl-99-56-136-219.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:14:52 in http://www.franz.com/support/documentation/8.2/doc/clim-ug.pdf, they say the syntx is (:s :control) 15:14:59 is this document wrong? why? 15:15:11 smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:15:15 DamienCassou: slight differences between implementations? 15:15:56 p_l: implementations of mcclim? I thought this was standard 15:16:07 p_l: in fact, I thought there was only one implementation 15:16:11 DamienCassou: mcclim is an implementation of clim 15:16:22 DamienCassou: it is not the only one 15:16:42 there is also "classic clim" 15:16:58 clims from Lispworks and Franz 15:17:47 http://bauhh.dyndns.org:8000/clim-spec/index.html this is more applicable to mcclim 15:17:47 wormphlegm [wormphlegm@c-24-17-108-64.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:18:05 it's the spec itself, without implementation details 15:18:17 thank you 15:19:18 revae_ [~revae@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 15:19:37 Joreji [~thomas@86-084.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:21:14 -!- revae [~revae@212.88.117.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:21:43 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:27:31 -!- Joreji [~thomas@86-084.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:27:39 their implementation might recognize "s" keyword as literal "s", but keywords look like bad idea to describe "normal" keys 15:28:18 plus I do recall hearing that even Franz suggests avoiding usage of CLIM, and someone said that it was barely maintanable mess... 15:29:35 -!- plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-18-123.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:29:56 p_l: do they propose anything else? 15:30:39 CLIM3! the only minor problem, it doesn't exist 15:30:43 yet 15:30:44 DamienCassou: they have their own proprietary toolkit, called Common Graphics (or Common Windows, I think) 15:31:04 -!- vinnana [~pkensche@cmbipc58.cmbi.umcn.nl] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 15:31:17 potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f662f62-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 15:31:32 is there anything available on sbcl? 15:31:57 Dynamic Windows was on some lispm 15:32:13 as soon as I master clos (another 15 minutes or so) I'll whip up a kick arse gui toolkit for cl 15:32:34 CLIM3 will probably be part of Lisp-3 15:32:34 -!- billitch1 [~billitch@e179025041.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:32:58 and SBCL-2 will implement it 15:33:12 -!- wormphlegm [wormphlegm@c-24-17-108-64.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 15:33:37 Xach: where can i find the code for the sbcl priority queues you were telling me about some time ago? 15:33:52 lisp-3? what is that? 15:34:12 it's actually cltl-3 15:34:35 laynor: src/code/timer.lisp 15:34:42 laynor: converting to a vector and using quickselect would be both faster and simpler. 15:34:59 whoa I didn't even think it existed in any form 15:35:15 The trick is simply to not use CONS-lists and all sort of good solutions will show themselves. 15:35:32 Guthur: even clim-3 exists in some form 15:35:40 beach showed some draft chapters 15:37:11 hrm, should call it lisp cubed, would make a cool logo, lisp^3 15:37:21 please, lisp³ 15:37:42 yes, the 3 is a bit small on this terminal though ;) 15:37:55 lisp-2½ 15:38:15 I was reading some of Worse is Better, and he advocated starting with a whole new kernel, and didn't seem to mention much about backwards compatibility. It is an old essay though. 15:38:18 Lisp-2e ? 15:38:54 -!- clop [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:39:35 -!- iPac [~bubble@p54AA4547.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:39:39 Guthur: that's sort of my plan for a gui, convert qt's kernel to cl. Well a really old version of the kernel 1.41 (oldest I could find) 15:39:44 Joreji [~thomas@86-084.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:40:48 bytecolor: why going for an old one? 15:40:56 simplicity 15:41:02 The answer to my cl-irc woes was to stop using a deprecated interface. :p 15:41:59 i'm using the newest Qt from CL without any conversion 15:42:22 -!- rapacity [~prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:42:33 rapacity [~prwg@li30-188.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 15:43:37 pkhuong: no idea about quickselect 15:44:08 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:44:37 -!- Joreji [~thomas@86-084.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:44:41 clos seems like everything else in lisp, you can apply _some_ of your prior programming knowledge to it, but then you have to reboot your brain 15:44:57 HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:45:13 iPac [~bubble@p54AA4F33.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:46 eslick [~eslick@209.117.47.253] has joined #lisp 15:45:48 laynor: how about google? 15:45:57 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 15:46:18 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 15:47:37 i already googled for it, it seems i could implement some sort of priority queue with it, and it could be good when i start optimizing my project, but the concept is better expressed using priority queues than vectors, so I would just use any ready (and tested) one 15:47:46 -!- rapacity [~prwg@li30-188.members.linode.com] has quit [Changing host] 15:47:46 rapacity [~prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has joined #lisp 15:48:08 laynor: I thought you wanted to remove the k lowest elements in a sequence. 15:49:00 codeassembly [~givan@188.25.30.146] has joined #lisp 15:49:01 pkhuong: oh I see, that's another part of the problem :) It's another list I'm working on now 15:49:03 -!- codeassembly [~givan@188.25.30.146] has left #lisp 15:49:22 clop [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has joined #lisp 15:49:46 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:49:54 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 15:51:48 Joreji [~thomas@86-084.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:52:25 Xach: any idea what def!method is? 15:52:45 laynor: it's defmethod, but while we bootstrap SBCL. 15:53:08 -!- eslick [~eslick@209.117.47.253] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:53:18 pkhuong: great, thanks :) 15:53:31 so, what's the pqueue for now? 15:53:49 -!- Phoodus [foo@174-22-192-234.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:55:03 pkhuong: I'm implementing a data mining algorithm, it will keep a queue of points waiting to be analyzed 15:58:06 Is one of the GSLL guys around? 15:58:20 stassats: using commonQt? 15:58:20 Just wondering if you are going to get it put on clbuild 15:58:28 luis: right 16:01:12 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:01:21 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:02:31 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:02:52 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.126.31] has joined #lisp 16:03:56 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.126.31] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:04:25 eslick [~eslick@209.117.47.253] has joined #lisp 16:04:50 Guthur: yes 16:05:47 I've just realised I think I can define my own local project list, which will do for the time being 16:05:58 Guthur: as a darcs patch even! 16:07:25 -!- CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:08:26 -!- Joreji [~thomas@86-084.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:09:01 *p_l* is considering switching from clbuild to something different 16:09:28 p_l: does the something different exist? 16:10:12 -!- eslick [~eslick@209.117.47.253] has quit [Quit: Reverting to analog] 16:10:25 Joreji [~thomas@86-084.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 16:10:39 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@82-171-137-254.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:10:57 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@82-171-137-254.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 16:10:58 Guthur: there's repo-install, there's lispy, there's cl-librarian... 16:11:43 hehe, and only about a month ago my world was just asdf-install 16:11:58 -!- DamienCassou [~cassou@tsuichoi.bordeaux.inria.fr] has left #lisp 16:12:56 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@bl9-129-226.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 16:13:37 netytan [~netytan@85.211.53.201] has joined #lisp 16:13:49 (defclass box () ((x1 y1 x2 y2))) is it possible to create a make-box that takes 4 integer, _or_ 2 points _or_ a point and a size? What I'm running into is what seems to be an arity problem. Do defmethods of the same name have to have the same arity? 16:13:55 -!- varjag is now known as varjagg 16:14:40 the same number of required and optional parameters 16:14:52 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:14:54 and variable number of &key 16:15:08 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has joined #lisp 16:15:14 hmm... 16:15:23 hrm, but you cant specialize on &key args, correct? 16:15:42 *attila_lendvai* is at lisbon, soon checking in on the els venue 16:16:16 -!- stray_hound__ [~stray@c-24-245-50-140.hsd1.wi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: stray_hound__] 16:16:33 what I would want is: (make-box x1 y1 x2 y2) (make-box p1 p2) (make-box p s) is that possible? 16:16:48 bytecolor: sure. Do you need late binding for that? 16:16:54 bytecolor: you can specialize only on required parameters 16:17:11 pkhuong: I have no idea 16:17:33 pkhuong: are you referring to :after? 16:17:39 no. 16:18:00 YAGNI says you should just write a regular function to dispatch all the cases you want to handle. 16:18:18 bytecolor: can you deal with (make-box '(x1 y1 x2 y2)) ? 16:18:26 yes, I'm a clos n00b, I have no idea what the hell I'm doing ;) But I do know how OO works in C++, so I'm not a complete n00b ;) 16:18:45 bytecolor: OO in C++ works completely differently though :-) 16:18:54 pkhuong: nod, but I'd have to parse the lambda list myself, yes? 16:19:07 p_l: I'm finding that out 16:20:20 bytecolor: well, there's also filtered dispatch 16:20:44 paslambox [~maden@modemcable136.252-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 16:20:56 hi 16:20:59 -!- dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:21:03 -!- paslambox is now known as maden0 16:21:25 hrm, I want to hammer defmethod into a C++ overloaded funciton, which just isn't going to work, eh 16:21:29 CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 16:21:52 seangrove [~user@cpe-76-171-251-67.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:22:21 schoppenhauer [~senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 16:22:51 bytecolor: http://p-cos.net/documents/filtered-dispatch.pdf 16:23:00 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 16:23:05 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:28:02 -!- laynor [~892b9a59@gateway/web/freenode/x-kzhjdnhxfcanztbl] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:28:51 If I'm reading from Drakma stream and want to read binary data out of it, while still using (read-line) for text, should I switch external-format of the flexi-stream returned by drakma? 16:30:01 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755d02.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:30:50 -!- hohoho [~hohoho@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:31:47 p_l: (drakma:http-request "http://url" :want-stream t ) 16:31:54 it will return a flexi-stream 16:31:59 and it is bivalent 16:32:47 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 16:35:42 -!- cmsimon [~iamcms2@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [] 16:36:20 stassats: yeah, but do I need to switch to and from (unsigned-byte 8) as external format in order to use read-sequence for binary data? 16:36:26 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:38:52 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.19] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:40:08 p_l: read into (unsigned-byte 8) sequence 16:40:39 ok 16:42:45 sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has joined #lisp 16:43:12 mpr312 [~chatzilla@pool-74-101-147-57.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:15 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:43:48 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@bl9-129-226.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:44:02 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:44:10 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 16:44:39 snowbeard [~user@nat-204-14-239-190-sfo.net.salesforce.com] has joined #lisp 16:45:07 LiamH: You may want to update the clbuild instructions, it lists c-array and grid in the dependencies, it should probably be just gsd 16:47:02 -!- Edward__ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-40-50.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 16:48:31 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 16:51:22 cmsimon [~iamcms2@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 16:52:05 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:54:01 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:36 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:56:42 -!- Tritonio_GR [~Tritonio@ppp-94-64-174-96.home.otenet.gr] has left #lisp 16:58:58 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:00:22 davazp [~user@ucaip182.uca.es] has joined #lisp 17:01:40 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@82-171-137-254.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:03:22 curi_ [~curi@adsl-99-114-139-86.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:06:53 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 17:11:18 nurv [nurv@83.231.23.128] has joined #lisp 17:11:35 Hi. 17:12:55 konr` [~user@201.82.133.249] has joined #lisp 17:13:12 -!- konr [~user@201.82.133.249] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:13:26 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:09 -!- lithper1_ [~chatzilla@216.214.176.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:15:03 slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 17:16:45 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:18:05 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-127-121.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:18:12 -!- revae_ [~revae@212.88.117.162] has quit [Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~] 17:19:21 t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B200102.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:21:03 plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-118-43.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 17:22:15 -!- Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:22:38 eugu [~Miranda@212.1.246.237] has joined #lisp 17:23:14 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:28:21 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 17:28:25 hello 17:28:50 Guther: GSD is a repository, there are two systems in it, grid and c-array. 17:29:34 LiamH, Ya, well does dependencies not define which repositories to retrieve for a given system 17:29:52 Guther: true 17:29:57 I had to change them to GSD, clbuild will error out 17:30:14 -!- Joreji [~thomas@86-084.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:30:41 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.74.203] has joined #lisp 17:32:57 Guthur: Can you send something to the mailing list? It will help remind me something needs to be done with clbuild. 17:34:35 -!- HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:34:51 HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 17:35:43 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 17:37:11 -!- snowbeard [~user@nat-204-14-239-190-sfo.net.salesforce.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:37:26 Lithos [~chatzilla@DSLPool-net209-213.wctc.net] has joined #lisp 17:37:43 -!- abeaumont_ [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:41:41 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:26 -!- mikezor [~mikael@c-e3e970d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:44:42 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:45:02 Xach [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:46:18 -!- ajmrch [~asarch@189.188.143.104] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:48:17 lithper1_ [~chatzilla@216.214.176.130] has joined #lisp 17:48:48 LiamH: No problem, I'll send to the mailing list now 17:49:36 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:50:08 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@82-171-137-254.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #lisp 17:50:35 -!- Lithos [~chatzilla@DSLPool-net209-213.wctc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:51:15 -!- Lis [~Lis@dialbs-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 17:52:30 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:52:53 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 17:54:22 Done 17:54:26 -!- hlavaty [~user@77-22-100-58-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:54:36 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:06 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:57:41 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:57:45 _mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 17:59:23 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 17:59:51 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:59:51 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:00:03 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-127-121.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:00:36 Hello, is it possible to use asdf-install on Windows? When I try install anything I got: "Error: illegal namestring: "C:\\Documents and Settings\\m_e\\.asdf-install-dir\\site\\\\" [6] 18:00:36 [condition type: PARSE-ERROR]" It looks like there is too much \\\\, but can I change this path? 18:01:28 drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 18:01:28 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-11-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:04:47 -!- davazp [~user@ucaip182.uca.es] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:04:53 jmbr [~jmbr@226.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 18:04:53 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 18:05:46 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:06:01 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-230-21.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 18:06:06 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 18:06:30 Edward__ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-20-75.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:06:49 I was also trying to use (asdf:operate 'asdf:compile-op ...), It works for cl-ppcre, but for drakma I got "Error: Attempt to take the value of the unbound variable `ASDFAS'.[condition type: UNBOUND-VARIABLE]" 18:07:22 Could you tell me what am I doing wrong? 18:08:13 mrSpec which implementation? 18:08:24 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:08:32 allegro common lisp under windows 18:08:41 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 18:09:31 never used it 18:10:44 felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has joined #lisp 18:11:09 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 18:11:18 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 18:11:24 mishoo [~mishoo@host254-107-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:11:35 ah :s 18:11:52 mrSpec: Did you get it sorted? 18:12:14 Guthur: sorted? What should I sort? 18:12:23 sorted/fixed 18:12:38 no 18:13:32 oh its probably the .asdf-install-dir 18:13:52 I don't think names are allowed to start with a . in windows 18:14:07 I know .emacs is something like _emacs 18:14:34 they can 18:14:37 but it doesn't make them hidden 18:14:51 ah ok, 18:15:27 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:16:02 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:16:02 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@82-171-137-254.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:16:21 sugarshark [~ole@p4FDA9FDE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:17:14 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 18:17:34 I have also some problem with asdf-install in SBCL... I'll paste log 18:17:51 mrSpec pasted "asdf-install sbcl,windows" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98838 18:18:33 mikezor [~mikael@c-e3e970d5.04-404-7570701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 18:19:08 kwinz [~kwinz@d86-33-115-52.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 18:20:36 daniel__ [~daniel@p5082E0A0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:20:56 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:01 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 18:22:50 Doesn't anyone write windows programs? :S 18:23:26 mrSpec: they do, but those mostly use commercial implementations (or ECL) 18:23:44 francogrex for example uses ECL and iirc builds DLLs that he later uses in other programs 18:24:06 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082C2C6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:24:21 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:24:51 oh, ok ;) 18:24:53 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 18:25:39 hefner plays quite a bit with ECL so I suspect he might have something to do with windows :D 18:27:20 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:28:26 -!- marko [~marko@74.213.73.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:29:10 mrSpec: It could be worse; at least there are one or two CL impls which treat Windows as a first-class platform 18:29:32 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@host254-107-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:29:33 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:29:36 is ACL one of them? 18:30:01 mrSpec: yeah. 18:31:26 -!- Edward__ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-20-75.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:31:44 mhm, so maybe you could give me some links to ACL + asdf-install tutorials? I cant find anything helpful... 18:33:58 enthymeme [~kraken@130.166.209.8] has joined #lisp 18:36:18 CCL works well on windows 18:38:07 HG` [~HG@xdslen253.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:38:47 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 18:39:22 Hun [~hun@95-90-29-247-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 18:39:26 hmm, maybe I should try it 18:40:16 mrSpec: install colinux, use clbuild! :D 18:40:31 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:41:53 I'm using Debian, but I have to rewrite my program to run it on windows ;s 18:42:23 colinux is not the solution 18:42:26 -!- splittist [~bc3ef51e@gateway/web/freenode/x-xyshftadjalllaxb] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:42:44 yeah, but slime doesn't work on Windows, right? 18:42:49 Is colinux the solution to anything? :) 18:42:51 sure it does 18:43:12 at least it didn't compile with CCL for me 18:43:22 but I haven't taken the time to investigate it 18:44:03 mrSpec: why do you want to use asdf-install? 18:45:06 drewc: what else would u suggest? 18:45:47 on win32? http://weitz.de/starter-pack/ 18:45:55 otherwise... firefox? 18:46:31 *drewc* ignores his rage at being called "u" 18:47:08 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 18:47:51 sorry :-) will use you :D 18:47:57 starter pack looks nice 18:49:21 *Xach* stumbles across http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/cb96cf41e5f0a1be 18:51:04 I hope this starter pack will solve my problems, installing... :) Thanks! 18:53:02 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 18:53:35 Xach: heh, neat 18:54:17 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:54:36 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:54:52 Hi all 18:55:11 ¿what is the format command for print a comma separated list? 18:55:16 i forgot it but i think it exist 18:55:55 ~{~A~^, ~} 18:56:18 Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:56:55 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-153-248.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:01 z0d: SLIME works on windows with CCL, at least for me 18:58:28 (it was on CCL/win64) 18:58:44 Xach: are you stalking Paul Graham 15 years in the past? :P 18:59:04 p_l: ok. I will check it out later this week 18:59:52 also worked for me on w7 32bit 19:00:01 rsynnott: Just messing around with my usenet archive splitting. 19:00:13 how big is CCL image on win? 19:00:28 about 15 mb 19:00:36 rsynnott: Paul Graham has, as far as I can tell, posted 10 messages total to comp.lang.lisp. 19:01:29 ost: 15 mb for x86, 20 mb for x86-64 19:01:31 pjb? somewhere around 7,000. 19:02:02 I see. too big for my needs 19:02:28 20MB/s for such a runtime isn't really much... 19:02:30 Younder is around 2,000. 19:02:32 *MBs 19:02:46 Especially considering the requirements for Win7 19:03:07 oh wait that was someone elses comment 19:03:12 i consider it rather small 19:03:30 .NET or Java runtimes are much bigger 19:04:38 .NET and Java have quite a few fully furnished kitchens in there though 19:04:57 milanj [~milanj_@81.36.161.131] has joined #lisp 19:05:01 Clisp or ECL runtimes are much smaller =( 19:06:48 rsynnott: here's another fun one... 19:07:12 codeassembly [~givan@188.25.59.125] has joined #lisp 19:07:21 http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/67df2d5537c4fbd6 19:07:42 hi, how to get more info what's happening with sbcl program that is working perfectly on suse linux and now dies from time to time on ceontos 5.3 19:07:59 i just get "Killed" 19:08:07 ost: yes, but they are more problematic 19:08:11 milanj: perhaps it's the out-of-memory killer. 19:08:16 i assume os is killing it (id's threaded sbcl daemon program) 19:08:26 milanj: check logs for OOM 19:08:52 milanj: or might be a address space or resident-set-size ulimit? 19:09:26 hmm 19:09:40 p_l, i assume it should be in /var/log/messages ? 19:09:59 milanj: also the "dmesg" command will show it if it's recent 19:10:01 milanj: or in /var/log/kernel 19:10:39 Lithos [~chatzilla@DSLPool-net209-213.wctc.net] has joined #lisp 19:10:40 puh, yes "data1 kernel: Out of memory: Killed process 16607" 19:11:03 milanj: you need to fix your VM settings and dynamic-space-size 19:11:19 also, probably tune your app regarding memory use (and look for leaks) 19:11:38 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.126.31] has joined #lisp 19:12:18 it's strange, it was working perfectly on suse more then 6 months ... and i watched for memory footprint, it was not huge 19:12:57 but hmm, i remeber some thing that i did in /proc/ 19:13:04 *remember 19:13:11 milanj: check thoroughly the settings on the centos 19:14:07 I don't know about SuSE, but CentOS is basically RHEL compiled by volunteers, and RH was pushing heavily behind SELinux - so it or another feature might have played around with memory allocation 19:19:22 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:22:37 -!- _mathrick is now known as mathrick 19:23:02 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 19:24:03 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-11-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:30:16 A few months ago I found a nice document that listed all the lisp functions. Now I lost it, it was really nice too gave very brief descriptions of everything written for programmers(rather than compiler writters). 19:30:23 -!- codeassembly [~givan@188.25.59.125] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:30:43 anyone have any ideas for where I found it? 19:31:12 hyperspec ? 19:31:21 codeassembly [~givan@188.25.59.125] has joined #lisp 19:31:40 no it wasn't a standard. 19:32:05 Lithos: you meant the side-by-side comparison of different Lisps from hyperpolyglot? 19:32:39 no it just listed all the standard functions. 19:33:02 Lithos: dunno, sounds like function index for clhs :) 19:33:05 sorry not being very helpful in being descriptive 19:33:32 p_l, and how is OOM actually working, because in logs just before OOM killed my sbcl program there is another program invoking OOM 19:33:51 milanj: OOM is... random 19:33:53 milanj: processes are killed randomly until there's enough ram. 19:33:55 klogd for example in one case, in another something different 19:34:05 hmm 19:34:40 Ok, I've installed starter pack... but "Error while reading: Reader cannot find package DRAKMA." :/ 19:34:44 milanj: you can select OOM's behaviour through various settings, iirc one of them causes the process that invokes OOM handler to be killed, the default one is to use "heuristics" which usually mean "kill randomly" 19:35:49 -!- cmsimon [~iamcms2@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [] 19:35:52 hmm, bugger 19:36:40 i 19:36:58 -!- daniel__ is now known as daniel 19:37:06 frontiers [~jackb@139.79-160-22.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:13 milanj: btw, don't disable overcommit unless you feel okay with setting apropriately low dynamic space for SBCL 19:37:35 (SBCL tends to die on most machines with overcommit disabled, for (not so)obvious reasons) 19:40:42 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:41:31 ThomasI [~thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 19:41:56 loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has joined #lisp 19:42:23 p_l, thanks 19:43:15 -!- tsuru [~user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:43:18 prxq [~mommer@e179201124.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:43:39 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:44:12 i'm blaming some spaghetti perl that i have on same server now, that coused me headache earlier 19:44:51 -!- kwinz [~kwinz@d86-33-115-52.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:45:06 -!- netytan [~netytan@85.211.53.201] has quit [Quit: netytan] 19:45:15 there's some interesting kernel stuff you might use if you want to constrain the apps regarding memory (standard resource limits might be not flexible enough) 19:45:27 netytan [~netytan@85.211.53.201] has joined #lisp 19:46:53 hi 19:50:17 -!- iPac [~bubble@p54AA4F33.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: adios] 19:52:24 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.65.161.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 19:53:20 Edward__ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-45-244.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:56:45 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-104-143.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 20:02:38 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.126.31] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:02:53 Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:03:34 mishoo [~mishoo@host254-107-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 20:05:14 -!- plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-118-43.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:06:03 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [] 20:07:05 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:07:39 p_l, like ? 20:08:06 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 20:08:26 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:09:53 milanj: resource controllers, partitioning etc. 20:10:18 Shaftoe [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096725400.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 20:10:51 Hello all. Is there a way to use case with #'equal for comparison? 20:10:57 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:11:26 Shaftoe: nope 20:11:47 great. Thanks. Now I can halt my searching algorithm =) 20:13:53 if you're looking for a string-case, you may find pkhuong's implementation interesting. I wonder if anyone wrote a gperf thingy for Lisp, upon which you can also write a string-case macro 20:15:58 adeht: cuckoo hashes get you O(1) lookups without depending on a really smart hash function; you just need a family to randomly pick from until it works (which happens with high probability) 20:16:43 mm I haven't considered cuckoo hashes 20:19:25 -!- Madsy [~Madsy@fu/coder/madsy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:20:19 alinp [~alinp@89.137.98.94] has joined #lisp 20:20:28 tsuru [~user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:21:37 -!- Shaftoe [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096725400.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Shaftoe] 20:23:57 p_l, thanks for help 20:25:34 speaking of wondering, I wonder if anyone tried to write some "chords" facility like the one described in http://lucacardelli.name/Papers/Polyphony%20(TOPLAS).pdf .. should make a nice weekend project anyhow 20:26:12 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:27:12 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755d02.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:27:19 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 20:27:22 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:28:10 -!- schoppenhauer [~senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:29:46 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:30:56 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 20:32:16 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-104-143.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:32:22 -!- Hun [~hun@95-90-29-247-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:33:01 -!- loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:33:14 lately, compilation errors appear in a new window in slime that cannot be closed with 'q' or so, because it is not active. Is there a simple way to change that behavior into something less annoying? 20:33:37 plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-118-43.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:35:10 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 20:35:12 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:35:36 loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has joined #lisp 20:37:29 cmsimon [~iamcms2@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 20:37:32 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.92.160.142] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:37:36 -!- milanj [~milanj_@81.36.161.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:38:26 -!- alinp [~alinp@89.137.98.94] has quit [Quit: alinp] 20:39:41 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.66.180] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:40:30 -!- HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:41:23 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:41:42 Madsy [~madman@fu/coder/madsy] has joined #lisp 20:42:13 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 20:44:49 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@130.166.209.8] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 20:45:28 marioxcc [~user@200.92.160.142] has joined #lisp 20:47:05 -!- cmsimon [~iamcms2@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [] 20:50:43 coyo [~unf@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:52:08 -!- konr` [~user@201.82.133.249] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:52:59 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-153-248.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:54:38 -!- MetaMucil [~Omeras@99-2-200-244.lightspeed.milwwi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: mmmmmm donuts] 20:56:16 faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 20:57:40 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 20:58:44 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.185] has joined #lisp 20:58:56 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 21:00:06 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 21:01:27 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:02:12 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 21:03:44 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-32-128.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 21:04:39 nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has joined #lisp 21:05:14 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-9-177.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:05:38 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:07:37 loxs[] [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has joined #lisp 21:07:58 -!- loxs[] [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:08:03 jgracin [~jgracin@vipnet49.mobile.carnet.hr] has joined #lisp 21:08:58 -!- davertron [~Dave@vt-sb-1.logicsupply.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:09:27 -!- adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-51-130.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:09:39 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 21:10:05 adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-51-130.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 21:10:17 dysinger [~dysinger@cpe-98-150-133-209.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:10:32 -!- drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:14:42 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:17:53 marko [~marko@74.213.73.173] has joined #lisp 21:17:53 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:18:38 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 21:19:04 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:20:06 -!- codeassembly [~givan@188.25.59.125] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:20:09 drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 21:23:23 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:23:43 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 21:25:22 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:14 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 21:26:58 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:27:05 -!- felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:27:15 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 21:28:42 is it possible to loop over your list and to modify it? 21:28:53 destructively that is 21:28:57 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:29:32 Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 21:29:34 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:35 everything is possible 21:31:38 -!- marko [~marko@74.213.73.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:34:05 -!- jgracin [~jgracin@vipnet49.mobile.carnet.hr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:35:51 nvm, found my bug, sort changes list destructively 21:35:59 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has left #lisp 21:37:39 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@host254-107-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:38:10 I'd argue the bug is not yours but the specs's 21:41:48 -!- sugarshark [~ole@p4FDA9FDE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:42:42 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:47:05 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:51:01 ¿what is the format command for print comma separated list? 21:51:56 -!- nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:53:02 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has left #lisp 21:53:14 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.232.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:53:48 -!- maden [~maden@dsl-147-127.aei.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:54:31 nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has joined #lisp 21:56:06 maden [~maden@dsl-153-72.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 21:56:37 -!- maden0 [~maden@modemcable136.252-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 21:56:43 paslambox [~maden@modemcable136.252-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 21:56:59 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 21:57:19 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 21:57:21 -!- lithper1_ [~chatzilla@216.214.176.130] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 21:57:29 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-127-121.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:57:36 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:57:43 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 21:58:15 ikki [~ikki@189.139.232.136] has joined #lisp 21:58:39 -!- Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:59:25 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 22:00:01 -!- Davidbrcz [david@212-198-91-47.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:04:10 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.185] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:06:34 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0153-74-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 22:09:02 marioxcc: didn't you like the answer i gave when you asked the first time? 22:09:10 marioxcc: i thought it was pretty good. 22:09:20 Xach: did you? 22:09:36 i didn't read it, i think it get lost in the rest of the chat 22:09:40 sorry, i'm searching it 22:09:46 marioxcc: ~{~A~^, ~} 22:09:59 ok, thanks :) 22:10:02 and excuseme 22:10:20 -!- faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:10:39 faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 22:10:56 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0153-74-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:13:31 -!- Edward__ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-45-244.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 22:14:35 -!- loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:15:05 -!- faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has quit [Client Quit] 22:16:11 -!- maden [~maden@dsl-153-72.aei.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:20:24 nikodemus [~nikodemus@dial-b3-106-1.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 22:20:42 -!- t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B200102.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:21:53 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@hugmyndahus.hugmyndahus.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 22:23:29 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.7] has joined #lisp 22:23:59 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:24:00 Mohikaner [~moe@stgt-5f71d0b7.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 22:24:20 Odin- [~sbkhh@130.208.212.1] has joined #lisp 22:29:33 -!- Soulman [~knute@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 22:31:53 in lisbon, bloody airline lost my bag ?- 22:31:59 i mean :/ 22:32:02 -!- potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f662f62-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:32:19 potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f662f62-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 22:36:02 nikodemus: Did you get it back? 22:36:03 enthymeme [~kraken@130.166.209.8] has joined #lisp 22:36:30 foom: re linux's page table and SBCL, have you tried their huge page support? 22:37:06 Our allocation pages are large enough for that, and I get really awesome speed ups on ~1GB data sets with pure random access. 22:38:33 -!- eugu [~Miranda@212.1.246.237] has quit [Quit: eugu] 22:41:17 Guthur: it's supposedly in stockholm, with luck i may get it tomorrow -- but you never know.... 22:41:32 *nikodemus* goes out to explore a bit 22:41:37 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@dial-b3-106-1.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:43:42 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 22:44:35 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.65.161.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 22:48:32 -!- adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-51-130.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:48:41 -!- ``Erik [erik@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:49:14 ``Erik [erik@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:49:26 jlf [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has joined #lisp 22:53:32 -!- HG` [~HG@xdslen253.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:54:29 quodlibetor [~user@146.95.31.248] has joined #lisp 22:54:46 cmsimon [~iamcms2@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 22:58:22 smik [~siddhant3@175.40.8.132] has joined #lisp 22:58:31 Is list case insensitive? 23:01:08 -!- ok [~ok@2002:5cfa:e261::1] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:01:08 -!- christop` [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:01:08 -!- stettberger [stettberge@2001:6f8:1209:f0:216:3eff:fe03:ff] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:01:45 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:02:06 ok [~ok@2002:5cfa:e261::1] has joined #lisp 23:02:16 stettberger [stettberge@2001:6f8:1209:f0:216:3eff:fe03:ff] has joined #lisp 23:02:36 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:02:37 -!- ok [~ok@2002:5cfa:e261::1] has quit [Client Quit] 23:03:41 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 23:03:48 sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has joined #lisp 23:05:45 smik: ¿what do you mean? 23:06:05 a list is just a set of things in an order 23:06:26 nil is a list, (cons anyting list) is a list too 23:06:33 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 23:06:54 marioxcc: I mean I defined a function with defun named make-cd. But if I call it with mAke-Cd, it works 23:07:09 oh, that 23:07:15 let me explain 23:07:17 unlike C where make_cd and Make_cD are two different function 23:07:26 smik: common lisP is case sensitive, but symbols are upcased by default. 23:07:35 symbols are case sensitive 23:07:38 but the reader is not 23:07:58 so (read) then write make-cd is the same as (read) and then write MaKe-Cd 23:08:15 they both give the symbol MAKE-CD (all uppercase) 23:08:23 if you want to force the case use |symbol| 23:08:43 then |MaKe-Cd| is not the same as MAKE-CD 23:09:03 but |MAKE-CD| is 23:09:07 adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-51-130.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 23:09:11 :) 23:09:42 marioxcc: Peter Seibel 23:09:50 has not yet taught me what symbols are 23:10:24 -!- netytan [~netytan@85.211.53.201] has quit [Quit: netytan] 23:11:21 Phoodus [foo@174-22-192-234.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:12:10 smik: i'm not sure how to explain that 23:12:20 symbols are just symbols 23:12:23 sorry 23:12:31 marioxcc: nevermind. Eventually, he will explain it 23:12:50 marioxcc: thanks for the help 23:12:52 pkhuong: you too 23:13:12 smik: your welcome :) 23:14:02 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:16:59 Joreji [~thomas@86-084.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 23:24:32 -!- felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has quit [Quit: felipe] 23:28:40 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@130.166.209.8] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 23:33:10 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.237] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:35:23 -!- benny [~benny@i577A88A2.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:35:44 benny [~benny@i577A8631.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 23:43:11 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-127-121.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:44:32 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 23:45:55 -!- Guthur [~michael@host86-137-237-51.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:46:51 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:47:12 -!- cmsimon [~iamcms2@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [] 23:47:24 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:48:56 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 23:49:36 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:52:33 -!- Mohikaner [~moe@stgt-5f71d0b7.pool.mediaWays.net] has left #lisp 23:52:41 pkhuong: huge pages for SBCL heap? 23:53:27 foom: right. 23:53:29 pkhuong: that would destroy SBCL's GC marking strategy... 23:54:01 you mean the write barrier? I'm not sure how bad it would actually be. 23:54:10 It would be bad. 23:54:14 You'd end up doing a full GC every time 23:54:46 Almost just as well get rid of the generational GC entirely 23:54:53 It's only 2MB instead of 4K. 23:54:57 emacs-dwim [~user@pool-173-70-173-147.nwrknj.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:55:28 -!- emacs-dwim [~user@pool-173-70-173-147.nwrknj.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:56:03 emacs-dwim [~user@pool-173-70-173-147.nwrknj.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:56:22 well, you can simulate that trivially, by making SBCL's page size 2MB. 23:56:42 cmsimon [~iamcms2@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 23:56:53 Nikodemus reported perf gains bu increasing the allocation page size to a couple MB. 23:57:14 Must be even better if we can use hugepages on top of that. 23:58:23 We use 32K pages in sbcl, and testing showed it slower with both 16K and 64K. 23:59:30 Haven't actually tested with 2MB, but I'd be quite surprised if it was better. 23:59:32 _danb_ [~user@124-168-128-117.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp