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01:49:44 ASDF2 01:50:11 -!- Guthur [~michael@host81-131-241-253.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:50:35 Yes. 01:54:44 p_l: would you tell me some keyword, please? 01:55:06 I'd like to avoid reading the whole source. 01:55:42 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 01:56:07 ~/.config/common-lisp/asdf-output-translations.conf.d/.conf 01:56:15 Thanks. 01:56:28 it should contain forms like this one: (source-path target-path) 01:56:39 t works as wildcard 01:57:29 *p_l* uses ASDF2 on LW5 and ACL8.2 01:57:47 I keep ECL and SBCL with old ASDF for now 01:58:07 (though I don't see much reason not to switch as well, now) 02:02:54 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-21-85.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:03:13 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 02:06:37 reprore [~reprore@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:09:20 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@rescomp-09-162682.Stanford.EDU] has quit [Quit: gonzojive_] 02:09:28 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 02:09:42 -!- gospch [~gospch@p5088EE9D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:10:48 gospch [~gospch@p5088EE9D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:12:36 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:12:44 -!- benny [~benny@i577A7F86.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:12:48 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:15:58 gonzojive_ [~red@rescomp-09-162682.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 02:16:40 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.195.168] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 02:19:11 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Quit: palter] 02:19:36 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 02:20:12 *nyef* sighs. 02:20:34 I get an SBCL cross-built that will load a cold-core, and it dies from SIGILL instead. :-/ 02:21:05 Time to give up on this MIPS target again for a while 02:21:46 benny [~benny@i577A741F.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 02:26:19 silenius [~silenius@adsl-99-5-96-70.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:33:28 -!- hypnosis [~hypnosis@unaffiliated/hypnosis] has left #lisp 02:33:31 -!- gospch [~gospch@p5088EE9D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:34:10 pers [~user@93.sub-75-231-225.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 02:35:19 -!- silenius [~silenius@adsl-99-5-96-70.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:35:52 gospch [~gospch@p5088EE9D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:38:18 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:43:59 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.40.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:48:40 pinterface` [~pixel@99.sub-72-101-201.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 02:52:22 smanek [~smanek@ip67-155-15-218.z15-155-67.customer.algx.net] has joined #lisp 02:52:33 -!- peddie [~peddie@adsl-76-254-69-115.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:52:36 peddie [~peddie@adsl-76-254-69-115.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:56:35 -!- plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-35-248.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:56:35 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@98.142.251.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:56:47 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-252-170-129.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 02:59:28 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@rescomp-09-162682.Stanford.EDU] has quit [Quit: gonzojive_] 03:00:56 -!- gospch [~gospch@p5088EE9D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:01:31 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:02:31 good morning! 03:04:38 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 03:05:27 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 03:05:43 -!- pinterface` [~pixel@99.sub-72-101-201.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:06:20 morning 03:09:38 pinterface` [~pixel@99.sub-72-101-201.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 03:10:32 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 03:11:07 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 03:14:29 anyone working with twitter from CL? 03:18:45 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-133-216.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night] 03:20:31 p_l: There are twitter API bindings on cliki and github if that's what you mean. 03:21:15 -!- thom_logn [~thom@pool-74-100-140-188.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:27:06 gospch [~gospch@p5088D770.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:33:26 -!- gospch [~gospch@p5088D770.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:35:10 -!- myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:35:42 gospch [~gospch@p5088FA92.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:35:50 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.56.157.111] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:38:43 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-168-152-229.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:39:29 myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 03:40:06 -!- gospch [~gospch@p5088FA92.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:42:23 -!- pinterface` [~pixel@99.sub-72-101-201.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:44:03 lithper1_ [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:44:09 gospch [~gospch@p5088D3AA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:48:26 -!- gospch [~gospch@p5088D3AA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:49:33 So one of the ideas I had was to do call-site specalization, for instance by having a caller, call a piece of code that would really do the call, to have that piece of code do the argument parsing at compile time when possible, and regenerate that piece of code when the callee changes. 03:49:59 -!- pers [~user@93.sub-75-231-225.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:50:10 And that might still be interesting for user code, but for system code, one could rely on compiler macros and inlining to do the same thing. 03:50:24 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:51:37 -!- LiamH [~nobody@pool-72-75-71-107.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:52:05 gonzojive_ [~red@128.12.248.192] has joined #lisp 03:53:25 One interesting use of such a feature would be caller-side boxing of floats, so that a callee that always returns a float could return a raw float. The caller could optimize away the boxing in many situations. 03:55:02 what if there are too many callers? how would you update them all? 03:55:03 cmsimon [~iamcms2@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 03:55:12 too many? 03:55:24 You wouldn't -- consider it a calling convention. 03:55:34 The convention is fixed, what is called is less so. 03:55:56 If you really want to update that, then a fresh load is reasonable -- just as for macros. 03:57:29 pinterface` [~pixel@99.sub-72-101-201.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 03:58:33 Anyway, my point is, we are in this unique situation where we have access to the entire system at any point in time, and we act as if we are forced to do separate compilation with a dumb linker. 04:01:07 stassats: I imagine you would find all the call sites, "invalidate" them by having them point to a "dynamic call-site compiler" instead. 04:01:31 So they'd be indirect call sites? 04:01:48 -!- smanek [~smanek@ip67-155-15-218.z15-155-67.customer.algx.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:02:04 Zhivago: They would all end with an unconditional jump to the real entry point. 04:02:56 But you're always going to have a double call and double return? 04:04:09 Ah, perhaps. 04:04:15 Speaking of calling conventions -- is there an elegant approach to dynamic label go in tagbody? 04:04:39 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:04:39 e.g., (tagbody foo (setf x 'foo) (go x)), except working. 04:05:42 local functions? 04:06:05 Zhivago: What makes you think go evaluates its argument? 04:06:10 Well, local functions and a trampoline is one option, but it isn't very elegant. 04:06:15 beach: Nothing -- see "except working". 04:06:48 What I'm looking for is something that would be pretty much the same as tagbody, only with a go that evaluated its argument. :) 04:06:57 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-9-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 04:07:24 Currently returning the next function to call to a trampoline seems like the least horrible approach. 04:07:42 Zhivago: do you care about it being exactly tagbody or can it be called (dynamic-tagbody ...)? 04:07:51 Don't care. 04:08:14 pkhuong suggested that (setf x (lambda () (go foo)) (funcall x) would be an option 04:08:37 I'm not sure that's better than a trampoline. 04:08:39 it could construct something similar to let block with locatives and have dynamic-go jump to value. 04:09:13 p_l: Which locatives? 04:10:09 Zhivago: well, I assumed it can use special implementation support (in form of inline assembly generation) 04:10:21 Ah, no. I need something in portable CL. 04:11:47 I think I'll use a trampoline, since that seems more portable to ther targets. 04:12:07 Somewhat annoying that tagbody can't support subroutines, though. 04:13:11 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 04:13:27 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 04:13:50 mgm [~none@p84-72.acedsl.com] has joined #lisp 04:14:11 Well, I guess it does with tagbodies nested through lambdas. 04:15:01 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:16:57 peddie_ [~peddie@adsl-99-34-76-56.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:18:37 -!- konr is now known as konr2 04:18:44 -!- konr2 [~user@201.82.133.249] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:20:38 -!- reprore [~reprore@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:20:44 -!- peddie [~peddie@adsl-76-254-69-115.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:21:22 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@128.12.248.192] has quit [Quit: gonzojive_] 04:21:34 konr [~user@201.82.133.249] has joined #lisp 04:24:22 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-214-244.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:24:37 -!- fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:24:56 reprore [~reprore@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:26:06 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0184-85-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:26:32 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0184-85-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 04:30:46 fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 04:30:56 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0184-85-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:31:46 -!- seg_ [~seg@adsl-99-40-252-150.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:32:25 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:34:06 -!- mgm [~none@p84-72.acedsl.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:36:38 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 04:39:40 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:47:24 -!- krappie [~brain@mx.skitzo.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:48:01 -!- kom_ [~el@brain.cx] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:48:56 kom_ [~el@brain.cx] has joined #lisp 04:49:50 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 04:50:14 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.126.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:50:46 Madsy [~Madsy@fu/coder/madsy] has joined #lisp 04:51:36 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-214-244.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:54:01 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-21-85.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:59:37 freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 05:01:13 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 05:04:33 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has joined #lisp 05:06:03 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-qojmksppinrizkbw] has joined #lisp 05:09:24 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:14:35 gospch [~gospch@p5088B60D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:14:57 -!- cmsimon [~iamcms2@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [] 05:16:54 mishoo [~mishoo@host254-107-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 05:18:33 mogunus [~marco@173-9-7-10-New-England.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 05:18:49 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:18:51 -!- gospch [~gospch@p5088B60D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:19:42 So, I figure this is as good a place to ask as any: are there any games that involve AI scripting as a game mechanic? 05:19:44 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.] 05:20:24 gospch [~gospch@p5088E894.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:20:42 I know about "core war" 05:21:34 -!- gospch [~gospch@p5088E894.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 05:21:34 gozpch [~gospch@p5088E809.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:22:18 Colobot 05:22:51 Aisp@ce 05:22:54 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 05:23:11 (though Aisp@ce requires it less) 05:23:22 Mostly, I'd like a game that encodes problems which are hard for both humans and computers, such that the ideal player is a set of well-written computer programms and a human. 05:24:18 Go. 05:25:17 Zhivago: do you have any links to computer-assisted go? 05:25:30 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:25:38 -!- gozpch [~gospch@p5088E809.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:26:00 No, but it is a hard problem for both computers and humans, and the reasons differ. 05:26:30 Presumably the computer could detect local risk factors and use the human more for larger scale issues. 05:26:39 nostoi [~nostoi@139.Red-79-146-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 05:26:47 I'll give that a try then. 05:27:02 Of course, this requires learning go much better than I know it now... but that's fun anyway :-) 05:27:25 thanks 05:28:40 If you could insert electrodes into the human you might find that they make a decent pattern recognition peripheral. 05:30:17 Heh. That's about what I want: human identifies large-scale patterns and strategies, and uses a computer assist for local decisions. 05:32:28 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 05:32:50 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-168-152-229.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:33:21 When I watch good Go (or Baduk) players, what seems to differentiate them from novices is when they decide to skip from locale to locale, and how they maintain the structures for building regions of control out of fragments. 05:34:23 Something which could show how many moves it would take to encroach upon a (projected) zone of control might also be useful. 05:34:36 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:36:34 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 05:37:12 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:37:28 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 05:38:07 Davidbrcz [david@212-198-91-47.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 05:40:30 gws [~gschuette@cpe-76-172-28-85.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:40:34 konr` [~user@201.82.133.249] has joined #lisp 05:40:40 the more I see of relational databases 05:40:47 the more I think paul graham was right 05:40:50 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@host254-107-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 05:41:07 -!- konr [~user@201.82.133.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:41:08 That ORM is a bad idea? 05:41:31 that SQL db are bad idea 05:41:45 gws: it all depends on data 05:41:54 I think they can be a good idea if you've drunk enough of the RM coolade. 05:42:24 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:42:28 well I spent all day moving a 200G backup of oracle 10 on sol 10 on small sunbox to the original sol8 big old sun box with odl ass veritas filesystem 05:42:31 old 05:42:50 the hitchaci SAN had to be monkeyed with 05:42:58 and the NFS space on isilon is slow 05:43:14 and veritas filesystem has to be told to handle file over 2g 05:43:23 and cant mount in vfstab yet, gota do that manually 05:43:34 then isilon fucks with your perms 05:43:42 and the data itself perms are all over the place 05:43:57 file by users that are disbaled with rw------- perms 05:43:58 lol 05:44:09 owned by soem guy who quit long ago 05:44:13 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-11-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:44:24 well i get to bill mad overtime 05:44:32 but its lame 05:44:41 and I got arrognat network guy saying its my fault 05:44:45 ok rant over 05:45:05 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@139.Red-79-146-112.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 05:46:20 -!- Davidbrcz [david@212-198-91-47.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:47:02 So, where-in lies the actual problem? 05:47:14 In the DB's not playing nicely with the file-system? 05:48:17 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 05:48:25 there's so many potential problems in that stack, it's hard to identify just one. 05:48:34 slow transfer 05:48:36 s/\'s/\'re 05:48:51 and when I was at colo the network guy decided to change the san while with old sun box was up 05:48:58 and the san partition woldnt come up 05:49:15 no soalris or oracle or veritas suport so im googling and using my old notes and those of a former admin 05:49:23 then consoel server went down 05:49:25 enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-252-170-129.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:49:29 network guy had me power ccyel it 05:49:44 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 05:49:45 then boss who used to be a sun guy tried a commadn from google without tellign me and locked shit up 05:49:47 whew 05:49:48 This reminds me of why I'm a software engineer rather than an administrator. 05:49:54 amen brother 05:50:01 its liek blindfolded in mine field 05:50:14 thenwhen do it everyone say u dick it was ez 05:50:18 lol 05:50:40 trasnfers on 125MB network 7.7MB/s 05:50:48 in a former life I was the senior admin at big unix sites, and I don't miss those operational days. 05:50:50 either hitachi which is raid 10 is slow 05:50:57 write or isilon slow read 05:50:59 or netwrok blows 05:51:15 do you guys make good money writing software 05:51:20 enable jumbo frames on the storage network. 05:51:26 yeah I am going to learn to code and get out of this bs 05:51:40 its direct atached SAN 05:51:49 fiber channel? 05:51:51 something is up with NFS maybe on sol8 05:51:53 gws: Enough that I don't have to worry about it. 05:52:01 NFS -->isilon SLOW 05:52:11 maybe I shoulda tried FTP 05:52:46 rsync 05:52:48 -!- mogunus [~marco@173-9-7-10-New-England.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:53:02 rsync is pretty good, particularly when it crashes. 05:53:16 I use it for local file copies as well. 05:53:29 rsync is brilliant. 05:53:52 We need an article called "Lists considered harmful". 05:54:11 Rather "Linked lists considered harmful". 05:54:42 no one knows ftp password for isilon 05:54:46 jsut simple shit si hard 05:54:54 lol 05:55:02 yeah I am usign rsync 05:55:04 now 05:55:17 but if you dont use rsync over FTP 05:55:23 then ssh is slow eh? 05:55:24 -!- erg [~erg@li13-154.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:55:25 When I learned how to spell simple words like "using" and "is" my life became considerably better. 05:55:37 typing != spelling 05:55:38 lol 05:55:41 erg [~erg@li13-154.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 05:55:42 my bad 05:55:56 "Linked lists considered harmful" in #lisp... 05:56:05 depends on if you have compression turned on and how fast your cpu is. 05:56:20 gws: that said, this is all wildly off topic for #lisp. 05:56:57 The problem with linked lists is that they for linearity. 05:57:05 s/for/force/ 05:57:18 I think javascript made the right choice when using maps. 05:59:08 -!- varjagg is now known as varjag 05:59:16 gws: i actually had similar network problems and resolved them. tar/nc ftw. make sure MTU is set to jumbo (9000), should be getting at least 50-60mb/s. 06:00:58 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.34] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:01:50 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 06:10:23 dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:12:35 tcr [~tcr@host178.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 06:15:29 gws, what was the data about? 06:16:21 wrt why relational db was chosen at all? 06:16:33 admin habits? 06:17:04 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 06:17:44 -!- pinterface` [~pixel@99.sub-72-101-201.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:18:33 fusss [~chatzilla@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 06:18:40 Joreji [~thomas@65-008.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 06:19:40 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.142] has joined #lisp 06:21:49 mishoo [~mishoo@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 06:23:50 -!- tcr [~tcr@host178.natpool.mwn.de] has left #lisp 06:24:08 -!- Joreji [~thomas@65-008.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:24:08 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:25:18 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:32:55 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 06:34:00 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-26-61-69.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 06:34:38 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has joined #lisp 06:37:05 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-9-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:39:12 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:39:28 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 06:40:47 -!- ParthenoGenesis [email@89-180-137-55.net.novis.pt] has left #lisp 06:42:18 krappie [~brain@mx.skitzo.org] has joined #lisp 06:42:58 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:43:46 Is it possible to use clozure cl's "COCOA" in ubuntu? 06:44:04 no 06:44:59 Is it only for mac then? 06:45:14 yes, and somewhat for windows 06:46:07 Oh i see. Thank you. BTW, can you recommend any packages for "GUI" in SBCL? 06:46:30 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0184-85-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 06:46:55 i used mcclim and commonqt 06:46:57 minion: commonqt? 06:46:57 commonqt: a Common Lisp binding to the smoke library for Qt. http://common-lisp.net/project/commonqt/ 06:47:01 minion: mcclim? 06:47:02 mcclim: McCLIM is Mike McDonald's Free and portable implementation of CLIM, the Common Lisp ueber-Graphics Toolkit and a Common Lisp Library. http://www.cliki.net/mcclim 06:48:26 Are they among the most popular? I need those with good documentation. 06:49:11 -!- maden [~maden@dsl-157-91.aei.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:49:48 I found LTk was easy to use. But the project seems to be dead by now 06:49:57 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 06:50:19 so dead it doesn't work? 06:50:42 No. I mean there are not many ppl to ask about 06:51:08 It works fine though. 06:52:12 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:52:12 Since I'm a newbie. Documentation and number of users are important factors in choosing packages. 06:54:46 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 06:55:52 -!- reprore [~reprore@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:57:23 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 06:59:30 does CFFI support flexible array members? 07:04:44 -!- nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:06:46 codeassembly [~givan@188.25.30.30] has joined #lisp 07:09:06 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 07:09:39 jgracin [~jgracin@dh111-186.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 07:11:17 flexible? 07:11:20 reprore [~reprore@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 07:12:07 Ralith: http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/Zero-Length.html 07:14:21 neat 07:15:46 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Excess Flood] 07:15:50 i guess i'll go with fetching the size of a structure from cffi-grovel 07:18:06 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:18:10 -!- dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:18:25 semyon421 [~semyon@109.188.3.118] has joined #lisp 07:18:52 t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B202549.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 07:20:57 seems to work 07:24:34 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:24:44 good morning 07:27:17 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 07:28:28 morning 07:29:06 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 07:29:34 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.72.203] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:29:45 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.72.203] has joined #lisp 07:30:01 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:30:50 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:35:40 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 07:36:50 -!- semyon421 [~semyon@109.188.3.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:36:50 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 07:38:46 semyon421 [~semyon@178.176.235.40] has joined #lisp 07:39:05 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:41:49 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0184-85-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:43:39 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:44:31 dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:46:22 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 07:46:51 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 07:47:10 -!- billitch1 [~billitch@dslb-094-223-087-153.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:47:12 -!- Salamander_ is now known as Salamander 07:48:54 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:49:10 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 07:50:02 -!- t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B202549.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:50:03 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-156-147-41.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:51:35 -!- krappie [~brain@mx.skitzo.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:52:02 -!- erg [~erg@li13-154.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:53:41 Unhandled memory fault at #x666666 07:53:44 that's evil 07:55:54 hehehe 07:58:25 erg [~erg@li13-154.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 07:59:46 and how to make it play nicely with char[] structure slot? 08:00:22 so i can use foreign-slot-value instead of (foreign-string-to-lisp *buffer* :offset (foreign-slot-offset 'inotify-event 'name)) 08:00:24 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 08:02:47 stassats: either that or (foreign-string-to-lisp (foreign-slot-pointer *buffer* 'inotify-event 'name)) 08:03:20 so it can't do the same thing as with :string? 08:04:04 stassats: in CFFI :string is a type wrapper for :pointer 08:04:09 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.237] has joined #lisp 08:04:14 there's no explicit support for inline strings 08:04:28 i see, alright 08:04:29 levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 08:05:29 low-level inotify seems to work, time to build something more higher level 08:07:08 Isn't "bordeaux-threads" installable in 64bit os? It's required for commonqt 08:07:26 it's installable 08:07:30 and usable 08:07:48 kenjin2201: bordeaux-threads is just a wrapper on top of implementation's threading, it doesn't care about word size 08:09:03 Strange...it fails...using asdf 08:09:43 you mean asdf-install? 08:09:53 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-252-170-129.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 08:10:23 yes 08:10:40 asdf-install is a frequent source of problems 08:11:46 -!- kom_ [~el@brain.cx] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:12:11 minion: clbuild? 08:12:12 clbuild: clbuild is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 08:12:33 kom_ [~el@brain.cx] has joined #lisp 08:12:41 Hmm.. thank you I'll check 08:14:02 Joreji [~thomas@80-061.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 08:14:40 ~/act 08:14:43 damn 08:17:47 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 08:21:39 -!- semyon421 [~semyon@178.176.235.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:22:52 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 08:23:09 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 08:23:31 semyon421 [~semyon@109.188.3.118] has joined #lisp 08:23:57 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:25:03 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756e20.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:25:55 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0184-85-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 08:28:51 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:29:41 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:30:20 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:30:37 -!- kom_ [~el@brain.cx] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:30:58 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:31:02 plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-68-239.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:31:27 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 08:32:28 kom_ [~el@brain.cx] has joined #lisp 08:34:55 t3eblinder [~wolfgang@eap111077.extern.uni-tuebingen.de] has joined #lisp 08:37:25 xan_ [~xan@87.223.161.65] has joined #lisp 08:38:10 ok [~ok@2002:5cfa:e261::1] has joined #lisp 08:38:17 hi! 08:39:17 does any one know, how to disable the output like ";;; Loading ..." on ecl? 08:39:38 clhs *load-verbose* 08:39:38 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_ld_prs.htm 08:40:13 cool, thank you! 08:40:36 clhs *compile-verbose* 08:40:36 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_cmp_pr.htm 08:43:38 and something like --noinform for ecl? 08:45:27 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-9-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 08:46:02 -q 08:46:06 perhaps 08:46:39 no 08:46:42 :-) 08:46:45 -shell 08:46:49 well, read the man yourself! 08:47:11 -shell needs a file 08:47:35 you have a shortage of files? 08:48:26 hmm, not realy, i hoped that it exists something similar to *load-verbose* for it .... 08:52:51 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 08:53:26 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:53:57 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 08:58:23 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-33-67.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 09:00:10 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-52-30.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:01:01 billitch [~billitch@g229048210.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:02:47 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 09:04:42 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 09:06:25 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.72.203] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:06:42 -!- billitch [~billitch@g229048210.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:08:20 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.237] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:09:05 fusss [~chatzilla@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:10:28 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 09:12:01 -!- kom_ [~el@brain.cx] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:12:08 kom_ [~el@brain.cx] has joined #lisp 09:12:56 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 09:19:52 billitch [~billitch@g229048210.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:23:38 anyone give cl-weblocks a try? 09:24:03 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:25:17 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 09:25:54 Blkt [~user@160.80.135.5] has joined #lisp 09:30:48 freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 09:31:48 tsuru [~user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:33:41 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 09:34:27 -!- christop` [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:36:00 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 09:38:22 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:38:46 lharc [~shrek@88.131.67.194] has joined #lisp 09:38:50 somecodehere [~ingvar@77-233-95-4.televork.ee] has joined #lisp 09:38:54 christop` [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 09:38:59 abeaumont [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 09:40:47 -!- Joreji [~thomas@80-061.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:41:14 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-60-79.dialup.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 09:42:33 cmsimon [~iamcms2@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 09:42:52 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-bulqwauyvzyohwdq] has joined #lisp 09:43:43 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.142] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:43:51 I gave it a try some time ago. 09:44:05 Seems it has undergone some changes since then. 09:46:49 woa mcdonalds farts 09:46:52 clear the area 09:47:33 ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 09:47:36 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:48:26 ? 09:50:24 krappie [~brain@mx.skitzo.org] has joined #lisp 09:50:25 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:51:27 -!- billitch [~billitch@g229048210.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:52:17 billitch [~billitch@g229048210.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:53:57 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:57:47 -!- gonzojive [~red@condi.Stanford.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:57:56 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 09:58:35 gonzojive [~red@condi.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 09:59:29 Yuuhi [benni@p5483A2A5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:59:45 -!- dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:01:18 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.67.67] has joined #lisp 10:03:54 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:05:04 any ITA staff around? we need quick help 10:05:46 notit 10:07:05 -!- konr` [~user@201.82.133.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:13:32 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Krystof 10:13:48 -!- Krystof has set mode +b *!*gschuette@cpe-76-172-28-85.socal.res.rr.com 10:13:51 -!- billitch [~billitch@g229048210.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:14:01 -!- Krystof has set mode -o Krystof 10:14:06 billitch [~billitch@g229048210.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:16:34 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.237] has joined #lisp 10:16:43 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 10:17:59 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 10:19:00 -!- hc_e is now known as hc 10:21:46 -!- cmsimon [~iamcms2@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [] 10:23:01 -!- hc is now known as hc_e 10:24:02 -!- Blkt [~user@160.80.135.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:25:35 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0184-85-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:25:42 aerique [euqirea@xs3.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 10:34:38 has any one tryed to use araneida with ecl? 10:35:58 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:36:45 pers [~user@77.sub-75-231-91.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 10:37:14 ok: why? 10:37:54 hunchentoot is where it's at 10:37:56 fuss: why not? 10:38:10 ok 10:39:16 what is the difference between hunchentoot and araneida? 10:39:39 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.237] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:39:40 hunchentoot is industrial-strength, tried-and-true, and other cliches 10:39:47 ok: About four years of development. 10:39:54 ok 10:40:02 i will use hunchentoot :-)) 10:40:14 ok: I think the only supported webservers at the moment are allegro serve (maintained only on ACL, I fear), Hunchentoot (the common and most used one), internal implementations from UCW and DWIM and CL-HTTP that nearly no-one uses. 10:40:18 Last release: http://www.common-lisp.net/project/araneida/release/araneida-latest.tar.gz - 0.90.1 on Dec 2nd, 2005 ? 10:40:34 (of course there are others, but less used or tested etc.) 10:41:12 *fusss* is ashamed to be the last lisper in flight booking 10:41:20 Lithos [~chatzilla@DSLPool-net209-213.wctc.net] has joined #lisp 10:41:45 -!- billitch [~billitch@g229048210.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:41:55 billitch [~billitch@g229048210.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:42:01 p_l: thank you. 10:42:25 Failed to install commonqt :( 10:44:27 fusss: ? 10:47:10 hunchentoot is the good stuff. 10:47:12 peterwang [~user@125.39.108.10] has joined #lisp 10:47:28 most importantly, the documentation is up-to-date (: 10:48:08 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 10:54:04 -!- peterwang [~user@125.39.108.10] has left #lisp 10:55:22 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 10:55:35 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 10:56:12 schoppenhauer [~senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 10:57:03 -!- deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has quit [Quit: ircII EPIC4-2.10.1 -- Are we there yet?] 10:57:19 Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:57:37 dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:58:09 p_l: YA flight-booking lisp web app 10:58:16 that's what I am working on 10:59:55 fusss: common lisp? 11:00:25 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Client Quit] 11:02:23 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-43-12.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:05:06 -!- xan_ [~xan@87.223.161.65] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:05:58 xan_ [~xan@87.223.161.65] has joined #lisp 11:07:21 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 11:09:35 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:09:47 freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 11:10:04 -!- xan_ [~xan@87.223.161.65] has quit [Client Quit] 11:10:10 xan_ [~xan@87.223.161.65] has joined #lisp 11:11:23 leo2007: 100% 11:12:01 bunch of *.co.uk sites; I am doing the flight-booking platform they will be using 11:12:46 that's excellent. I didn't realise common lisp is popular in that area. 11:13:28 me neither, it's just what i know best and i got a flight-booking gig after my 3-month SOAP contract ended today 11:13:56 it will be more middleware, more opportunity to polish up cl-scum, my SOAP library :-) 11:14:53 PM is talking with ITA sales 11:14:57 small fucking world 11:15:29 fwiw, we would pay moolah for cruise and ferry booking API 11:16:53 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-69-125.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 11:18:14 -!- somecodehere [~ingvar@77-233-95-4.televork.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:20:16 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 11:23:11 fusss: PM? 11:23:19 fireaway 11:23:35 oh, you're asking me; "PM" == Project Manager 11:23:51 i thought you meant "private-message-p" 11:24:27 -!- lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 11:25:05 fusss: I saw the news: ITA uses lisp. You are in a big company? 11:25:40 no, 10-15 people firm. i am a consultant. don't know them that well. 11:26:04 I see. 11:27:47 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 11:28:08 -!- schoppenhauer [~senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:31:00 Guthur [~michael@host81-131-242-155.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:33:08 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 11:36:16 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:36:56 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 11:37:23 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:39:05 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:43:02 mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has joined #lisp 11:44:44 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:46:01 -!- pers [~user@77.sub-75-231-91.myvzw.com] has left #lisp 11:46:27 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 11:53:33 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:00:57 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:02:30 -!- t3eblinder [~wolfgang@eap111077.extern.uni-tuebingen.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:03:52 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:03:57 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:04:19 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-37-82-253-38-232.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:04:44 -!- billitch [~billitch@g229048210.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:04:57 billitch [~billitch@g229048210.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:06:05 SandGorgon_ [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 12:07:08 -!- billitch [~billitch@g229048210.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:07:24 billitch [~billitch@g229048210.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:09:40 billitch1 [~billitch@g229048210.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:09:40 -!- billitch [~billitch@g229048210.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:09:48 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:11:16 -!- billitch1 [~billitch@g229048210.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 12:11:20 billitch [~billitch@g229048210.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:12:08 schoppenhauer [~senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 12:14:00 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 12:14:21 Ibex_twin [~lars@a213-22-69-171.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 12:15:31 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 12:15:43 carlocci [~nes@93.37.193.157] has joined #lisp 12:15:53 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:16:18 kpreid [~kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 12:16:53 cmsimon [~iamcms2@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 12:18:44 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-153-248.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:19:19 -!- reprore [~reprore@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:19:22 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:20:09 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 12:20:42 -!- Guthur [~michael@host81-131-242-155.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:22:30 user__ [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 12:22:34 -!- schoppenhauer [~senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:23:11 reprore [~reprore@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:23:27 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:24:21 davertron [~Dave@vt-sb-1.logicsupply.com] has joined #lisp 12:25:40 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 12:26:32 -!- SandGorgon_ [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:29:22 on compiling flexi-streams on ecl i get an error like "In function COERCE, the value of variable is 65533" in ascii.lisp, does any one know what to do against it? 12:30:03 mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-jsbooeuuvjicysjl] has joined #lisp 12:30:03 ok: I'd like to help. What's the exact text of the error message? 12:30:06 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-bulqwauyvzyohwdq] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:30:07 Guthur [~michael@host81-131-242-155.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:30:08 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:30:32 ;;; Error: 12:30:33 ;;; in file ascii.lisp, position 1581 12:30:33 ;;; at (DEFCONSTANT +ASCII-TABLE+ ...) 12:30:43 ;;; Error detected: 12:30:44 ;;; In function COERCE, the value of variable is 12:30:44 ;;; 65533 12:31:09 lisppaste: url 12:31:09 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 12:31:09 -!- billitch [~billitch@g229048210.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:31:22 billitch [~billitch@g229048210.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:31:49 thanks :-) 12:32:40 ok pasted "ecl flexi-stream error" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98710 12:33:24 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 12:33:38 *ok* lisppaste rulez 12:33:45 *Xach* has nothing 12:34:04 ? 12:35:00 ok: I don't understand the error, sorry. 12:35:18 hmm 12:36:20 as i can see he wants an integer between -128 and 127, but the constat has values like 65533 12:37:20 but it is written so in source code ... 12:42:12 do i need unicode support for flexi-streams? 12:43:27 laynor [~ale@109.76.73.81] has joined #lisp 12:44:18 t3eblinder [~wolfgang@eap111077.extern.uni-tuebingen.de] has joined #lisp 12:44:37 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-qojmksppinrizkbw] has left #lisp 12:46:03 -!- laynor_ [~ale@109.77.59.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:48:11 deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 12:55:02 ok: seems so. 12:55:07 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:55:10 File a wishlist item? 12:56:16 sellout: ping 12:59:23 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-225-199-195.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 13:00:20 fe[nl]ix: pong 13:01:59 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 13:02:05 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:02:08 sellout: I'm about to move bordeaux-threads to git 13:02:17 fe[nl]ix: Excellent. 13:02:21 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 13:05:56 -!- krappie [~brain@mx.skitzo.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:06:14 -!- kom_ [~el@brain.cx] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:11:18 -!- mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-jsbooeuuvjicysjl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:11:19 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 13:11:41 mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-fefutqefxfrdxlwq] has joined #lisp 13:12:16 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.237] has joined #lisp 13:15:27 Shaftoe_ [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096725400.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 13:15:55 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 13:16:06 What's a good way to properly reuse code if you have (only) two functions that are short, very domain specific and essentially identical 13:16:24 e.g. some sort of output formatter 13:17:27 (aside from the obvious creation of a third function) 13:17:52 bobbysmith007 [~russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 13:20:49 what mean error "In the argument 2 of a call to WRITE-CHAR, the type of the form STREAM is TRIVIAL-GRAY-STREAM-MIXIN, not C::STREAM-DESIGNATOR."? what is a C::STREAM-DESIGNATOR? 13:20:57 Blkt [~user@160.80.135.5] has joined #lisp 13:20:59 -!- lithper1_ [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:21:33 ok: is that on cmucl ? 13:21:38 good day everyone 13:21:59 hi Blkt 13:22:24 no, ecl 10.4.2, with ecl 10.4.1 it worked without any problem (i try to compile trival-gray-streams) 13:23:05 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:24:26 fe[nl]ix: we 13:24:35 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:27:59 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-21-85.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:28:45 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 13:29:37 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:30:57 hi, how can I make format to output on main thread from a subthread ? 13:31:25 (I'm using bordeaux-trheads) 13:31:25 kiuma: choose the right stream as the target. 13:31:56 kiuma: for example, you could have the main thread define a new global variable that points to its thread-local *standard-output* 13:32:14 great, thanks 13:35:57 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 13:38:55 lemoinem [~swoog@98.142.251.37] has joined #lisp 13:39:36 zomgbie [~jesus@mk090152156252.a1.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:48 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-60-79.dialup.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:40:56 krappie [~brain@mx.skitzo.org] has joined #lisp 13:45:38 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:46:13 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-231-97.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 13:46:48 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:46:55 Joreji [~thomas@65-219.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:47:04 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@mk090152156252.a1.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:47:04 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-130-159.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:47:22 zomgbie [~jesus@mk090152156252.a1.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:06 konr [~user@201.82.133.249] has joined #lisp 13:49:44 -!- billitch [~billitch@g229048210.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:50:22 billitch [~billitch@g225021232.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:53:20 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:54:36 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 13:54:47 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@mk090152156252.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:55:45 zomgbie [~jesus@mk090152156252.a1.net] has joined #lisp 13:56:19 -!- t3eblinder [~wolfgang@eap111077.extern.uni-tuebingen.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:58:40 kom_ [~el@brain.cx] has joined #lisp 13:59:23 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:01:53 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 14:03:00 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:03:19 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 14:04:27 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 14:04:29 maden [~maden@dsl-156-175.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 14:04:54 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:05:07 -!- erk_ [~MrEd@BZ.BZFLAG.BZ] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:06:23 erk_ [~MrEd@BZ.BZFLAG.BZ] has joined #lisp 14:07:34 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:07:34 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 14:07:41 _mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 14:08:26 -!- _mathrick is now known as mathrick 14:11:36 flexi-streams does not work on ecl-10.4.2? 14:12:30 t3eblinder [~wolfgang@eap111077.extern.uni-tuebingen.de] has joined #lisp 14:13:02 nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-133-216.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 14:13:12 Hello all. 14:13:28 hi nyef 14:13:29 -!- billitch [~billitch@g225021232.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:13:39 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.237] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:14:29 billitch [~billitch@g225021232.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:16:42 -!- billitch [~billitch@g225021232.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:16:50 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:16:58 *nyef* gives up on getting SBCL running on his PS2. 14:17:20 It's not working, and the more I try to get it working, the further away from my baseline I get. 14:17:22 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 14:17:22 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:17:37 nyef: That would have been pretty sweet to get running 14:17:46 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:17:53 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 14:18:16 billitch [~billitch@g225021232.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:18:17 Yes, but the system is running a 2.4 kernel, which is already iffy, and I've had to change the heap space allocation in order to even load the core, and then I got a SIGILL. 14:18:25 hehe, Would be interesting to see SBCL has PS2 in its Arch list 14:18:41 It's a MIPS box. 14:19:06 No more, no less: A MIPS box. 14:19:30 Can you not update the kernel? 14:19:39 Nope. 14:19:55 You need a newer gcc to build the 2.6 series, and newer gcc doesn't support the CPU. 14:20:11 Something about weird extended instructions or something. 14:20:22 Ah, bummer 14:20:24 (Apparently the GPRs on the main CPU are 128 bits wide?) 14:20:29 -!- user__ [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:20:44 user__ [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 14:20:58 Anyway, it'd've been cool, but... Not worth the trouble right now. 14:21:49 Would a really old version of SBCL, implemented around the time of 2.4 have a better chance of working 14:22:01 -!- Blkt [~user@160.80.135.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:22:02 Not sure if such a thing would even be available 14:22:18 Available? Maybe... Compilable, that's iffier. 14:22:29 -!- jgracin [~jgracin@dh111-186.xnet.hr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:23:03 -!- billitch [~billitch@g225021232.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:24:59 ... At one point, I tried setting up a qemu-based virtualization environment for SBCL hacking... And I don't know where the files got to. 14:25:29 ... Nevermind. I -just- found them. Cunningly hidden in a directory named "qemu". 14:26:28 -!- t3eblinder [~wolfgang@eap111077.extern.uni-tuebingen.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:28:04 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:51 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:31:13 -!- Joreji [~thomas@65-219.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:31:30 -!- user__ [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:33:04 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:33:27 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:34:13 iPac [~bubble@p54AA787B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:01 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:37:34 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:38:04 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:38:54 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs3.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 14:39:10 bad_alloc [~marvin@HSI-KBW-091-089-216-020.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 14:40:11 Anyone play aroudn with hadoop + streaming + CL? 14:40:36 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:41:05 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:43:04 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:44:37 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-vxty.basistech.com] has joined #lisp 14:45:32 -!- bad_alloc [~marvin@HSI-KBW-091-089-216-020.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: You shoot yourself in somebody else's foot.] 14:45:48 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:46:09 Good afternoon! 14:46:48 hi beach 14:48:04 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:48:24 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:48:46 billitch [~billitch@g225021232.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:49:00 hello beach 14:51:11 -!- semyon421 [~semyon@109.188.3.118] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:51:32 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:53:04 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:53:18 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has quit [Quit: -arividerchi] 14:53:36 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:54:05 -!- billitch [~billitch@g225021232.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:55:56 billitch [~billitch@g225021232.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:58:47 somecodehere [~ingvar@16.198.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 14:59:11 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 15:03:04 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 15:04:10 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 15:05:09 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 15:05:50 -!- codeassembly [~givan@188.25.30.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:05:57 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:07:05 -!- billitch [~billitch@g225021232.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:08:03 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:08:40 -!- Ibex_twin [~lars@a213-22-69-171.cpe.netcabo.pt] has left #lisp 15:10:48 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 15:14:05 pers [~user@34.sub-75-220-160.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 15:18:23 marioxcc [~user@200.92.181.225] has joined #lisp 15:18:59 bhunji [~lejoon@h-63-40.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 15:19:07 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:19:11 -!- Shaftoe_ [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096725400.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Shaftoe_] 15:19:23 he he, is it common having such a huge class hierarchy that C-c C-c ing the ultimate base class definition takes 30 seconds? 15:20:32 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 15:21:04 That sounds a bit strange to me. 15:22:09 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 15:24:08 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:24:42 -!- Lithos [~chatzilla@DSLPool-net209-213.wctc.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 15:24:50 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 15:26:32 nearly 500 classes, each written by hand 15:26:51 -!- pers [~user@34.sub-75-220-160.myvzw.com] has left #lisp 15:28:14 -!- cmsimon [~iamcms2@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [] 15:30:49 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 15:30:50 that's a jungle of classes 15:31:12 and without seeing reasons for it, I suspect I'd consider it bad style :D 15:31:32 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 15:31:50 -!- varjag is now known as varjagg 15:31:58 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-vxty.basistech.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:33:54 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:35:38 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:35:57 -!- dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:37:36 -!- rread [~rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:37:43 rread [~rread@nat/sun/x-ulssbzptpdfpbmnm] has joined #lisp 15:39:11 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:39:22 -!- iPac [~bubble@p54AA787B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:41:32 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-11-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:42:55 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:44:08 iPac [~bubble@p54AA5E4D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:44:09 Joreji [~thomas@80-061.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:48:54 TR2N [email@89.180.231.59] has joined #lisp 15:52:43 netytan [~netytan@85.211.53.201] has joined #lisp 15:55:50 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:57:39 Athas [~athas@95.142.158.235] has joined #lisp 15:58:26 -!- Athas [~athas@95.142.158.235] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:59:04 iPac2 [~bubble@p54AA5E4D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:59:08 smanek [~smanek@ip67-155-15-218.z15-155-67.customer.algx.net] has joined #lisp 16:00:23 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-89-223-231-97.vodafone.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:00:58 -!- iPac [~bubble@p54AA5E4D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:00:59 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 16:02:44 Maybe he implemented the OTA spec :P 16:03:56 mikezor_: OTA? 16:04:00 sorry 16:04:05 minion: OTA? 16:04:06 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``OTA''. 16:04:27 Nothign lisp specific :P 16:04:38 It's just a nasty online travel api 16:05:00 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@98.142.251.37] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:05:10 -!- peddie_ [~peddie@adsl-99-34-76-56.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:05:27 http://www.opentravel.org/Specifications/SchemaIndex.aspx?FolderName=2010A 16:06:27 peddie [~peddie@adsl-99-34-76-56.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:08:32 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0184-85-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 16:09:03 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:11:09 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0184-85-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has left #lisp 16:11:29 dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 16:11:42 kencausey [~ken@67.15.6.88] has joined #lisp 16:12:57 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:23 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-21-85.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:13:38 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-21-85.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:14:06 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 16:15:56 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:17:21 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Quit: lockups are like pokemon.] 16:17:27 hmm... what lisp would you try to fit into a 150MHz 486SX with 32MB of RAM? 16:17:39 clisp 16:18:16 hmmm 16:19:33 p_l: a very old clisp 16:19:38 heh 16:19:53 I guess it's back to C or Lush on bifferboard 16:19:54 it's just the component classes of our gui library 16:20:33 well, it will fit in memory 16:20:39 but i'm not sure about speed 16:21:01 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-21-85.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:23:16 eslick [~eslick@dhcp-54-59.media.mit.edu] has joined #lisp 16:23:31 -!- eslick [~eslick@dhcp-54-59.media.mit.edu] has left #lisp 16:23:58 I guess I can't put CL on bifferboard :/ 16:26:20 I would be happy if anyone could prove me wrong and would give me the same amount of functionality with much less classes/functions/etc. 16:26:33 -!- bhunji [~lejoon@h-63-40.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:26:45 felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has joined #lisp 16:27:08 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@mk090152156252.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 16:27:11 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 16:27:11 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Quit: palter] 16:27:53 Hmm, what's a nice pair of short names for serialization/deserialization that won't clash with cl:load, cl:write, cl:read, etc? 16:28:15 ... deport and naturalize, maybe? 16:28:18 serialize/deserialize? 16:28:21 (Used in SB-ALIEN.) 16:28:28 levente_meszaros: short. 16:28:42 i use save-data/load-data 16:28:42 Xach, sorry, I consider that short :) 16:29:09 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:29:12 zomgbie [~jesus@mk090152240166.a1.net] has joined #lisp 16:29:28 (... "snap" and "crackle", avoiding CL:POP as a potential collision...) 16:29:29 I can have more than 160 characters in a single line 16:29:44 levente_meszaros: I'm glad I don't have to read your code. 16:30:04 nyef: I was just thinking cereal 16:30:09 Xach: pickle, unpickle 16:30:11 store/restore 16:30:31 Xach, do you use a two paragraph layout on your 21'' monitor? 16:30:33 >wire and levente_meszaros: I don't know what that means. 16:31:08 ... two-column layout? 16:31:38 er, yes 16:31:54 levente_meszaros: No. 16:32:11 -!- myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:33:24 levente_meszaros: It has nothing to do with the size of the monitor (which you can compensate for by adjusting the distance, modulo vision problems) but with how many pixels you have horizontally. 16:34:25 hmm... anyone uses drakma to read multipart/x-mixed-replace streams? 16:34:46 levente_meszaros: I have two 1600x1200 pixel monitors, allowing me to display four A4 documents side by side. I use that to split an Emacs window in two on one monitor (for code and REPL), and often having the application running and perhaps some documentation on the other monitor. 16:35:28 bigger monitors usually means more pixels 16:35:46 Davidbrcz [david@212-198-91-47.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 16:36:01 i find reading text in narrow columns more easier 16:36:44 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@mk090152240166.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:36:58 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:37:12 in programming I find it more important to see more stuff at once 16:37:24 rtra [~rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #lisp 16:37:26 myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 16:37:32 zomgbie [~jesus@mk090152240166.a1.net] has joined #lisp 16:37:41 I read code differently from ordinary books 16:38:12 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 16:38:19 also, indentation can waste a lot of useful space if you have only 75-80 chars per line 16:38:20 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:38:32 t3eblinder [~wolfgang@p5B2028C8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:39:19 i follow "if it doesn't fit, split it!" 16:40:05 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-11-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:40:07 stassats, I guess you also have semantic wrapping rules, don't you? 16:41:20 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:41:32 e.g. I put this in a single line (def layered-method make-node-presentation ((component class/tree-level/inspector) (class class) (prototype class) (value class)) 16:42:05 because there are quite a lot of functions like that, so I don't want to waste vertical space for such a common pattern 16:42:23 and this is 128 characters 16:44:16 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-245-43.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 16:44:55 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@mk090152240166.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:45:53 zomgbie [~jesus@mk090152240166.a1.net] has joined #lisp 16:46:29 levente_meszaros: It's better to lie down on your desk and format the code horizontally 16:46:33 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.237] has joined #lisp 16:47:07 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 16:48:19 Xach, isn't it better to unconditionally wrap every single line at 75.362... characters? 16:48:41 levente_meszaros: no. lie down! 16:49:19 nah, wrap it at 75 thousand 362 characters :) 16:49:46 Xach, hmm, now that I checked your idea, it turned out to be more useful than mine, thanks! 16:49:49 -!- fda314925 [~fda314925@211.239.124.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:49:50 -!- hicx174 [~hicx174@211.187.100.115] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:49:55 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:49:57 :) 16:50:38 Hah! You know it's a lisp-powered startup when their spam says "You are receiving this email because you signed up for Postabon.com on Tuesday, NIL 1st" 16:50:50 smanek: you might want to check that :) 16:51:32 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@mk090152240166.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:52:09 zomgbie [~jesus@mk090152240166.a1.net] has joined #lisp 16:52:17 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:52:51 "free mets tickets - worth every penny" 16:56:13 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 16:56:46 -!- Joreji [~thomas@80-061.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:59:12 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 16:59:25 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@162.80-203-136.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:00:13 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@mk090152240166.a1.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:00:33 codeassembly [~givan@188.25.59.3] has joined #lisp 17:00:39 leifw [~user@64.sub-174-204-122.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 17:02:29 Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 17:02:32 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has joined #lisp 17:03:12 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.58.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:06:09 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:09:37 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 17:11:08 mishoo [~mishoo@host254-107-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:12:27 damn artists 17:13:18 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 17:13:23 lnostdal [~lnostdal@162.80-203-136.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 17:13:31 yacin [~yacin@tyr.gtisc.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 17:14:22 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 17:16:34 -!- netytan [~netytan@85.211.53.201] has quit [Quit: netytan] 17:18:21 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:25:31 -!- leifw [~user@64.sub-174-204-122.myvzw.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 17:25:48 -!- smanek [~smanek@ip67-155-15-218.z15-155-67.customer.algx.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:28:45 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 17:29:07 ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 17:29:18 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:32:59 bad_alloc [~marvin@HSI-KBW-091-089-216-020.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 17:34:39 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0184-85-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 17:37:35 hello, i'm trying to connect to a server (in this case an irc server), send some commands and print the answer. but somehow it only outputs when i interrupt the lisp process in slime (C-c C-c) where could the mistake lie? 17:37:37 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 17:37:39 bad_alloc pasted "connecting to irc" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98718 17:38:05 clhs finish-output 17:38:05 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_finish.htm 17:38:17 read the difference 17:38:20 thanks :) 17:38:29 No, no... Were are the line terminators? 17:38:34 s/Were/Where/ 17:39:12 -!- codeassembly [~givan@188.25.59.3] has left #lisp 17:39:13 and you don't need progn in LOOP DO 17:39:44 The progn can help with indentation, though, if you've got an anemic automatic loop indenter. 17:40:27 if only there was an agreed upon loop indentation style 17:41:31 thanks stassats and nyef, itconnects fine now. bot how am i supposed to wirte several statement in one do? ...do ((print a) (print b))? 17:41:44 do (print a) (print b). 17:42:53 smanek [~smanek@ip67-155-15-218.z15-155-67.customer.algx.net] has joined #lisp 17:44:54 I haven't written loop enough times to figure out an indentation. I just type, then C-M-a C-M-q. Looks good enough. 17:46:20 It ends up looking like a block, regardless 17:47:52 I saw some loop code with all the keywords written as :for := :do, etc. The coloring actually looked better in emacs that way. 17:47:53 netytan [~netytan@85.211.53.201] has joined #lisp 17:50:23 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 17:52:36 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 17:52:49 ysph [~user@adsl-221-200-212.mgm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 17:53:15 -!- myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:53:26 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-153-248.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 17:56:53 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:57:07 postamar [~postamar@x-132-204-253-43.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 17:58:33 myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 17:59:42 bytecolor: I think that's the style used by pjb. 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[Quit: Leaving.] 20:34:39 SandGorgon_ [~OmNomNomO@122.162.126.31] has joined #lisp 20:35:02 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 20:35:52 -!- rtra [~rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:35:57 -!- SandGorgon_ [~OmNomNomO@122.162.126.31] has quit [Client Quit] 20:36:17 SandGorgon_ [~OmNomNomO@122.162.126.31] has joined #lisp 20:38:05 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 20:38:34 so, there. cucumber integration test adapter is done. if you have ruby, "gem install cucumber clucumber" will get you the goods. I'll write up a little introduction post soonish (: 20:38:50 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:39:01 (and yeah, it does yield a lot of square cucumbers (-:) 20:39:12 btw, I experimented with a thing I dubbed "molicle"s - small modules for CL. 20:39:14 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 20:39:50 Currently, it can handle accumulatting forms to be included at the end of the lisp file or *after* the lisp file is compiled. 20:40:10 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-153-248.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:40:24 So e.g. you could do the QRes-style "LIST-OF" types and have the LIST-OF-FOO satisfies function be automatically included 20:42:14 -!- Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Planned down time ^^] 20:46:13 chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has joined #lisp 20:46:22 ABS 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[Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:03:52 lemoinem [~swoog@modemcable185.168-23-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 22:06:06 -!- jamu_ [~dasilvj@unaffiliated/dasilvj] has quit [Quit: out://] 22:06:16 -!- cmsimon [~iamcms2@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [] 22:06:58 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@modemcable185.168-23-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:11:09 drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:38 -!- Soulman [~knute@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 22:13:17 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 22:14:33 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:14:44 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 22:16:18 hi, what (:constructor nil) defstruct option is useful for? is there other form of create them? something like make-instance? 22:16:36 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:17:02 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 22:17:13 -!- gws [~gschuette@cpe-76-172-28-85.socal.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 22:17:25 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:17:27 Edward_ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-50-58.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:18:16 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:18:56 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:19:13 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has left #lisp 22:20:03 davazp: if you use :type list, then you can make them manually and just use the defstruct's accessors 22:20:25 clhs: defstruct 22:20:27 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 22:20:30 clhs defstruct 22:20:35 umm 22:20:39 minion: clhs defstruct 22:20:39 does torturing a poor bot with things beyond its comprehension please you? 22:20:43 nevermind. 22:21:35 specbot has gone AWOL 22:21:39 amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 22:21:52 may it rest in pieces. 22:22:01 <_6502_> it's written in lisp ? 22:22:29 _6502_: Possibly 22:23:07 Though if it was written in C it would probably segfault the whole network, hehe 22:23:09 SkpVwls [~SkpVwls@pool-173-79-230-52.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:23:17 it is right.. thanks 22:23:30 -!- faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:24:32 thought I was reading the sbcl sources, in compiler/node.lisp I found: (def!struct (node (:constructor nil) ...)) 22:24:32 22:24:41 but no :type option is used 22:25:01 <_6502_> hmmm... boa constructor; humour was there when they wrote the specs 22:25:56 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:26:19 Obscure [~SkpVwls@pool-173-79-230-52.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:26:20 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-245-43.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:27:58 -!- SkpVwls [~SkpVwls@pool-173-79-230-52.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:28:13 -!- mikezor_ is now known as mikezor 22:28:32 -!- felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:29:17 <_6502_> is it an unnamed structure ? 22:29:49 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:30:34 myu2 [~myu2@w179122.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 22:30:39 I think so 22:31:26 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has quit [Quit: Esto se acabooooooo ...] 22:31:32 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 22:31:34 I suppose it's an "abstract structure" 22:31:45 it is named, but doesn't have a constructor function 22:32:26 <_6502_> "defstruct without a :type option defines a class with the structure name as its name. The metaclass of structure instances is structure-class." 22:32:46 <_6502_> i thought that structures were something different than CLOS classes 22:33:08 Sure. They are different. 22:33:14 they're instances of structure-class 22:33:15 hm, I agree adeht 22:33:31 structure classes are CLOS classes 22:33:50 but they're not standard-classes 22:33:52 they are "abstract structure", you cannot instanciate it.. you can just include in ohters 22:33:58 others* 22:34:19 finally you should have a structure with a constructor, I think :-) 22:36:37 -!- lithper1_ [~chatzilla@216.214.176.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:36:49 <_6502_> davazp: or you just play forever with the classes, never instantiating them :-) 22:37:19 *_6502_* never really understood the duality class/instance... 22:37:56 _6502_: What part of it doyou not understand? 22:40:24 <_6502_> schme: for example in C++ you have classes, and static data members; i'm sure you can have the same in CLOS... but this means classes are indeed instances, and in C++ they're simply limited because you cannot have more than one istance of the class object 22:41:14 _6502_: I have no idea about what C++ does there. So I dunno. 22:41:44 <_6502_> schme: can you pass a class to a function in lisp ? 22:42:17 Pass the class? 22:42:22 oh you mean pass the class. 22:42:26 sorry. I'm not awake. 22:42:51 _6502_: You might enjoy MOP :) 22:42:52 _6502_: C++ doesn't have instances of class definition 22:43:23 <_6502_> p_l: it has at the template metaprogramming level..., not at the C++ level 22:43:44 _6502_: the template metaprogramming iirc is basically completely separate from C++ itself 22:44:04 or at least close to 22:44:06 <_6502_> p_l: yes, and extremely poor, by the way 22:44:07 <_3b> _6502_: classes are instances, you can use them as any other instance 22:44:11 _6502_: generally classes are instances of some metaclass, so ya you can pass 'em. 22:44:14 and even with it, classes aren't instances in C++ 22:44:22 <_3b> (usually instances of something like standard-class) 22:44:28 Well what _3b said. 22:44:45 C++ has no runtime representation of the class hierarchy. 22:44:49 <_3b> stadard-class being an instance of standard-class is the fun part :) 22:44:53 classes are instances of something in the compiler. :) 22:45:15 It seems maybe not so useful if it is not "interactive". 22:45:54 iirc, C++'s RTTI is based on a structure with a string field :) 22:46:53 okay, sure, *some* classes (those with virtual members/inheritance) have a runtime representation. :) 22:48:18 <_6502_> so there are no meta-meta-classes ? 22:48:51 foom: those two don't really have runtime representation, iirc... there's runtime representation of methods, maybe :D 22:50:35 _6502_: it bottoms out. 22:50:42 standard-class is an instance of itself. 22:51:16 _6502_: If it really sparks your interest then you should get a copy of the art of the meta-object protocol 22:51:38 kpreid [~kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 22:51:53 Of course, it bottoms out in smalltalk as well, as Metaclass class is an instance of Metaclass... I think that's how it was, at least. 22:51:55 c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:52:03 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:52:15 nyef: not Class? 22:52:24 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 22:52:27 No, not Class. 22:52:29 hm 22:52:33 okay :D 22:52:41 They both inherited from ClassDescription, though. 22:53:03 I like how we're talking about Smalltalk in the past tense. :\ 22:53:35 *_6502_* once becoming king of the world, will make inheritance illegal 22:53:48 why? 22:53:57 smalltalk.. seems more live and kicking than CL (: 22:54:00 So that nobody becomes king of the world afterwards. 22:54:36 <_6502_> that, and to destroy java 22:54:44 in Pharo it would seem that the bottom/top object is ProtoObject . 22:54:52 so I guess that would hold for squeak too. 22:55:06 Meh. You could probably use nuclear weapons to destroy Java if you really wanted... 22:55:09 sorry. top class :) 22:55:25 <_6502_> or just wait for volcanoes, you mean... 22:56:23 <_6502_> i saw this short circuit of instance/class/metaclass also in python 22:56:37 <_6502_> but i never really understood it 22:56:42 If it bugs you maybe just don't do OO. 22:56:51 _6502_: maybe you should read AMOP. 22:57:07 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:57:36 <_6502_> OO is fine (if you don't take it to the object-obsessed-programming of java) 22:58:12 I take bigger issue with java's bondage philosophy. 22:58:13 :\ 22:58:20 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-21-85.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:58:40 _6502_: I think maybe if this root class/object being an instance of itself bugs the heck out of you.. just don't worry about it :) 22:58:53 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 23:00:14 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 23:00:15 <_6502_> i just don't like type emphasis too much... but then indeed may be i don't like it because i don't understand it; oh well i've still a long way before getting to CLOS and MOP 23:00:50 -!- LiamH [~none@132.250.248.92] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:01:16 type emphasis? 23:01:26 CLOS is easy. :S 23:02:41 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:03:01 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:03:56 <_6502_> schme: all this fuss about what type is this, what type is that :-) 23:04:04 oh 23:04:05 *_6502_* adds AMOP to the list of readings 23:04:18 _6502_: type and class are different things in CL. enjoy :) 23:05:54 -!- koollman [~samson_t@ns301422.ovh.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:06:14 gospch [~gospch@p5088F4FB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:06:14 -!- htk_ [~htk_@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:06:45 koollman [~samson_t@ns301422.ovh.net] has joined #lisp 23:06:58 <_6502_> schme: my little lisp toy has defgeneric/defmethod, but selection is done on general boolean expression, not just this-p, that-p :-) 23:07:04 And just wait until you run into the concept of a "type class" in some implementations. 23:07:17 htk_ [~htk_@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has joined #lisp 23:07:49 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 23:08:28 <_6502_> schme: for example i can do "(defgeneric fact (x)) (defmethod fact (x) T (* x (fact (1- x)))) (defmethod fact (x) (< x 2) 1)" 23:08:56 minion: tell _6502_ about filtered-dispatch 23:08:57 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``filtered-dispatch''. 23:09:00 hrkm 23:09:22 minion: filtered-functions? 23:09:22 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``filtered-functions''. 23:09:26 *drewc* googles 23:09:56 _6502_: http://p-cos.blogspot.com/2009/12/filtered-functions.html 23:10:27 -!- quodlibetor [~user@146.95.31.248] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:11:26 the example is more like method combination than selection 23:11:38 _6502_: what do you do for ambiguity? is there some way to enforce ordering of methods? 23:12:35 lichtblau: http://gitorious.org/bordeaux-threads 23:12:58 <_6502_> i'm using the order of defmethod calls 23:13:10 <_6502_> last one is checked first 23:13:49 6502: that's a bad idea 23:14:10 _6502_: you lose a lot of modularity and declarativeness. 23:14:50 <_6502_> hey... it's a toy :-) 23:14:56 <_6502_> i'm not going to use it in production 23:15:52 <_6502_> but i was amazed that you can write sucha a thing in lisp itself 23:16:11 <_6502_> the first version was actually creating an "optimal" fact function 23:16:50 <_6502_> that is fact was going to be exactly like (defun fact (x) (cond ((< x 2) 1) (T (* x (fact (1- x)))))) 23:17:13 redline6561 [~redline@gate-30.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 23:17:22 <_6502_> i had to change it to something uglier because i was having problems with the compiler 23:19:27 I think a lot of effort went into CLOS (and Dylan object system's) optimization to collect all the pieces (methods) and amalgamate them into a compact representation 23:19:36 tcr [~tcr@host178.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 23:20:04 <_6502_> that's a difference between a toy and the real thing 23:20:50 <_6502_> i've read some paper about PCL and looks like something that was very well thought 23:23:53 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:58 _6502_: What language are you implementing your lisp in? 23:25:55 <_6502_> schme: the kernel is in C... last addition was a vm that can execute bytecode, so i can also compile lisp to bytecode 23:26:07 _6502_: neat. 23:28:18 -!- benny [~benny@i577A741F.versanet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:29:03 *nyef* notes that building SBCL under qemu-system-mipsel is really slow. 23:29:23 <_6502_> i saw that it's undefined what happens if you redefine a structure... so what about that idea of patching long running lisp systems ? 23:29:54 Maybe don't use structures then ;) 23:30:39 <_6502_> hehehe... i mean that i thought that the ability to redefine things in a running system was a key factor for lisp, it isn't ? 23:31:07 benny [~benny@i577A88A2.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 23:31:29 yes, but there is a tradeoff between efficiency and flexibility here 23:31:31 Well I guess for some it is a key factor. But one can't quite expect to be able to redefine EVERYTHING I guess :) 23:32:12 <_6502_> now ? in the jit era ? 23:32:30 6502: so if you want to be safe in the assumption of redefinability, use classes 23:32:41 (standard-classes) 23:33:25 <_6502_> adeht: yeah... i saw in the introduction to AMOP that one part of CLOS is the handling of redefinition of classes 23:35:21 -!- levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Quit: ...] 23:35:39 _6502_: What do you need structures for? 23:35:46 (I like structures) 23:36:22 *drewc* would prefer classes with a structure-class metaclass to ANSI CL structures 23:37:07 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483A2A5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:39:13 <_6502_> drewc: why filtered methods instead of generic boolean condition specialization ? 23:39:27 <_6502_> drewc: the syntax for filtered methods is ugly... 23:39:41 -!- Edward_ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-50-58.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 23:40:17 gonzojive_ [~red@c-67-188-5-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:40:20 the syntax was also criticized in c.l.l.. but the syntax isn't the important part of filtered-functions.. you can just provide your own syntactic sugar 23:40:36 <_6502_> schme: basically i don't like defclass syntax :-) 23:40:55 For being a language boasting no syntax people sure seem obsessed with syntax. 23:41:03 <_6502_> adeht: there is just syntax in computer science... well, syntax and turing machines, that is 23:41:16 that's a very weird claim 23:41:22 _6502_: Well change the syntax (: 23:41:43 _6502_: there's still an importance to make between macroexpressible changes and more global ones. 23:42:01 -!- Obscure [~SkpVwls@pool-173-79-230-52.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:42:53 <_6502_> yeah... i was a bit exaggerating :-D ... but still i see so much emphasis on being "declarative", like if source code wasn't a formal description 23:43:19 what. 23:43:21 <_6502_> i think that a declarative approach is better if it's more readable than source code, if declarative is worse then what's the point in it ? 23:43:43 Maybe you should do prolog. It's very declarative. 23:43:45 _6502_: non-sequitur. 23:45:19 -!- myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has quit [Excess Flood] 23:45:56 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-21-85.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:46:32 <_6502_> pkhuong: i'm still trying to understand what you mean... with macroexpressible and more global 23:47:13 is there a constant "e" in Lisp (just like PI ) ? 23:47:21 PissedNumlock: no 23:47:27 k, ty 23:47:30 <_6502_> pkhuong: i just meant to say that if something is more declarative it doesn't follow it's better... many just don't get this (for example of how bad things can get take a look at in C++) 23:47:45 PissedNumlock: (defconstant e (exp 1d0)) 23:47:55 lordakinator [~igaray@190.97.33.72] has joined #lisp 23:47:55 _6502_: . 23:48:22 but how often do you need e itself? 23:48:35 not often, its just in 1 function 23:48:38 _6502_: So what makes.. defclass more declarative than defstruct ? 23:48:44 hello everyone 23:48:55 6502: how is declarative? 23:48:58 PissedNumlock: and you don't want exp or ln? 23:49:52 fusss [~chatzilla@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:50:30 pkhuong: its for a function to update certain values for an assignment in AI. Updating these values is done using function which happens to use e 23:50:52 but 1 sec, looking what exp does 23:51:08 k, sorry 23:51:12 exp is what I need 23:51:28 so whats the difference between 1 and 1d0 ? 23:51:36 PissedNumlock: sure.. It's just that you rarely need e by itself. e doesn't really exist as much as exp or ln, mathematically. 23:51:38 1 is an integer, 1d0 is a double-float 23:52:56 -!- redline6561 [~redline@gate-30.spsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:53:02 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 23:53:03 thx for the information 23:54:09 <_3b> adeht: only in bases less than 14 :p 23:54:41 myrkraverk [~johann@unaffiliated/myrkraverk] has joined #lisp 23:54:48 *#lisp-base* ==> 10 23:54:50 :) 23:55:19 <_3b> 10. you mean? :p 23:55:20 -!- m4thrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:55:47 <_6502_> adeht: for_each, bind2nd and other stuff that it's a nightmare to use because of C++ syntax 23:55:50 heh, I think we've progressed beyond Maclisp ;) 23:56:13 6502: that doesn't answer the question 23:56:21 i'm having some trouble understanding an error I'm getting regarding aref and array accesses, if anyone's in the mood: http://pastebin.com/uL5atxrB thanks in advance 23:57:05 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0153-74-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 23:57:06 <_3b> lordakinator: you need to define a function (setf grid-cell), or otherwise tell SETF how to deal with GRID-CELL forms 23:57:41 lemoinem [~swoog@98.142.251.37] has joined #lisp 23:58:42 _3b: but grid-cell is defined, it always executes an aref and returns that. should aref not know how to deal with those references to the array? 23:58:57 *_6502_* fell asleep trying to read the stuff pkhuong threw at him 23:59:01 <_3b> SETF can't see inside the function to tell it is using AREF though 23:59:06 _3b: sorry, I meant: should setf not... 23:59:23 _3b: ah, i see 23:59:50 <_6502_> adeht: then i didn't understand the question :-)