00:00:28 rahul: "it" being the class? :) 00:00:36 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 00:01:00 I've never used that part of CLOS yet myself, so I just read the hyperspec entries and examples 00:01:36 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:01:38 -!- Joreji [~thomas@74-036.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:02:44 gonzojive_ [~red@c-67-188-5-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:02:58 howdy rahul 00:04:13 klapaucjusz [~jch@bob75-11-78-249-231-16.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 00:06:36 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 00:06:50 Anyone know the status of Rhodes' extensible sequences stuff? 00:07:00 Has it been adopted by anyone except SBCL? 00:08:46 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 00:09:17 iiuc, the defclass is authorized to walk all the instances immediately and update them - so it's too late to defmethod u-i-f-r-c *AFTER* the defclass 00:09:43 -!- davazp [~user@83.57.37.58] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:09:48 on the other hand, defining it *before* leads to style-warnings about the class not being defined yet, when there wasn't a previous definition 00:10:33 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:11:10 of course, I can use a (when (find-class ...) (eval ...)) to protect the defmethod, but if you compile then odds are the defclass itself from the compile-file may trigger the when.at load-time, so you're protecting less than you'd wish. 00:11:17 but oh well. 00:13:25 Fare: still around? 00:13:40 hi Xach 00:14:10 klapaucjusz, yes 00:14:22 Fare: if the class isn't defined, then what use is doing something when it gets RE-defined? 00:14:28 have you seen trurl? 00:14:44 rahul: sometimes I'm not sure whether it has been defined or not 00:14:51 right, during development 00:15:05 for instance, when I'm compiling a version of asdf that has to be upgrade-proof. 00:15:27 yeah, that too 00:15:45 ignore the warning 00:15:57 it's a style-warning not a full warning 00:18:47 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 00:19:52 -!- klapaucjusz [~jch@bob75-11-78-249-231-16.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:21:10 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-74-68-121-85.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:23:31 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.107] has joined #lisp 00:27:23 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:29:42 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:30:14 -!- rich_holygoat [~rich_holy@pdpc/supporter/student/rich-holygoat] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:31:31 -!- poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has quit [Quit: poet] 00:32:10 -!- quotemstr [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: quotemstr] 00:32:39 quotemstr [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:34:19 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 00:35:35 poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has joined #lisp 00:35:53 -!- poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has quit [Client Quit] 00:40:28 leo2007 pasted "slime buffer name" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98472 00:40:35 wolfspaw [~wolfspaw@proxy.externos.ufrn.br] has joined #lisp 00:40:39 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:40:42 tcr: hi? 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02:24:36 (handler-case (compile nil '(lambda (x) (and (evenp x) (char-code x)))) (sb-int:type-warning (c) c)) ? 02:25:04 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 02:25:21 how do I "continue" from within the body of loop? (a la C's continue and break keywords) 02:25:47 there is no continue 02:25:59 just structure the code so nothing gets done then? 02:26:04 yes 02:26:04 nuntius: If you're looking to extend the test suite, look at existing parts of the test suite (such as compiler.pure.lisp or compiler.impure.lisp) and make your test case look like those. 02:26:18 stassats: ok; so there's no need to print "success"; the error is sufficient? 02:26:38 nuntius: that wasn't a test, just an idea 02:27:05 nyef: I've patched dd-lisp-type and was looking into converting my example code into a real test case 02:27:31 it fails under the previous sbcl 02:28:00 hmm... I could (assert (equal (type-of ... 02:28:13 but I was looking to actually execute code 02:28:33 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.192.137] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 02:29:04 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-127-113.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 02:29:22 fusss: when and unless may be useful. 02:30:08 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@98.142.251.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:34:15 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:34:52 fusss: the iterate package has next-iteration which is like continue 02:35:05 lemoinem [~swoog@98.142.251.37] has joined #lisp 02:36:29 debiandebian_ [~chatzilla@ntszok008047.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:37:46 fuss: clhs 6.1.8.1 02:37:46 -!- debiandebian_ [~chatzilla@ntszok008047.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 02:39:36 -!- debiandebian [~chatzilla@ntszok008047.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:41:13 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-133-216.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 02:42:26 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@85.253.74.238.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 02:44:22 nyef: ok, I think I understand how to use with-test. 02:45:43 debiandebian [~chatzilla@ntszok008047.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:48:25 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.133.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 02:49:23 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-127-113.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:50:24 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-168-152-229.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:53:56 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:56:24 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-129-91.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:01:54 dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 03:02:10 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 03:02:10 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 03:02:28 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 03:02:31 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 03:02:31 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Client Quit] 03:03:04 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 03:03:47 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Client Quit] 03:05:56 is there slot-value for structs? 03:06:35 i know some CLs implement structs as classes, but mine says an struct object has no slot FOO, even though it does 03:06:37 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:07:20 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.66.25.154] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:09:37 fusss: there's no standard for that 03:09:54 the only way to pull struct slots is via their specific accessors 03:10:42 or using a defstruct wrapper macro storing the slots for later use 03:12:09 I've also seen code printing an object to then extract the slots, but this is less portable 03:12:39 and awkward 03:13:08 fusss: about the lacking loop-continue, it's also possible to use tagbody/go or other simpler loop constructs 03:14:02 I was surprised myself about its absense from standard loop however 03:14:59 maxigas [~user@host86-186-250-225.range86-186.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 03:15:22 I am trying to get scbcl working on Ubuntu from the package. I did 03:15:23 "apt-get install sbcl cl-who" and I say "(defpackage :foo (:use 03:15:23 cl-who))" and SBCL throws at me a "The name "CL-WHO" does not 03:15:23 designate any package." 03:15:44 maxigas: load cl-who first 03:16:18 s/absense/absence/ 03:16:24 there are two steps to using third party libraries; loading the asdf "system", or "module", and then USING packages offered by such system 03:16:58 phadthai: yeah, but my code looks cleaner anyway without explicit transfer of control 03:17:11 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 03:20:45 fusss: there is not even a "load" entry in the command index of the SBCL manual. :o 03:21:58 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:22:45 fusss: ah, (load "cl-who") worked, but it throws "Couldn't load "cl-who": file does not exist" 03:23:20 I checked that cl-who is in /usr/share/common-lisp/source/cl-who 03:23:42 Do I have to add that directory to some kind of path? 03:23:52 maden [~maden@dsl-156-147.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 03:24:18 you might want to configure *default-pathname-defaults*, or to use asdf's require after configuring asdf:*central-registry* 03:25:54 using an asdf system definition can also automatically load the dependencies 03:26:58 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.42] has joined #lisp 03:27:49 Assuming everything's set up correctly--which hopefully is true for distro stuff!--, (require :cl-who) is probably what you're looking for, maxigas. 03:30:58 pinterface: thanks, that seems to be working well. 03:31:20 lithper1_ [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:36:47 Good morning! 03:36:52 maxigas: you want ASDF; lisps differ in how they load external libraries, but ASDF is a portable library that does the loading in a uniform fashion 03:38:09 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 03:38:14 -!- beach` is now known as beach 03:39:18 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:42:24 -!- X-02 [~schopenha@p1059-ipbf409kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has left #lisp 03:47:47 ok, i think i'll have to install the hard way: the (require :hunchentoot) gave 30.000 lines back and hanged with "Symbol "THREAD-ALIVE-P" not found in the BORDEAUX-THREADS package." but cl-bordeaux-threads is installed. I guess at least I need another version of bordeaux, no? 03:48:27 -!- konr [~user@187.106.48.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:48:36 I like that SBCL doesn't die simply but enters the debugger and asks how to proceed, btw. 03:51:45 The distro-provided copies of libraries tend to be pretty old, yeah. clbuild is pretty handy for getting the most current stuff. 03:52:27 minion: tell maxigas about clbuild 03:52:27 maxigas: please look at clbuild: clbuild is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 03:53:42 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@wsip-72-215-168-118.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:53:42 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 03:54:20 pinterface: but the whole idea of "package management" and a Ubuntu release is that the applications that are packaged into a single release of the operating system should work together out of the box. So Ubuntu package maintainers should either put in an older hunchentoot or a newer bordeaux then... hmpf 03:55:29 -!- pinterface [~pinterfac@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:55:47 sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has joined #lisp 03:56:14 -!- HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:57:43 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 04:02:13 OK i am installing clbuild now, bordeaux i just installed from darcs, but it asks for something called Alexandria, which is in a git, so installing that now as well... 04:03:18 maxigas: use clbuild 04:03:18 maxigas: maybe you will find http://paste.lisp.org/display/91544 useful. 04:05:09 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 04:06:26 rme: OK, I'll try that now. 04:07:18 beach: good morning 04:07:34 but goodnight as well, as it's now midnight here :) 04:07:38 bbl 04:07:54 ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 04:08:29 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:12:02 -!- Devon [~devon@c-98-216-157-52.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:17:49 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.116.50] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:22:51 hello 04:23:04 hello ost 04:23:37 -!- nuntius [~nuntius@c-71-232-15-233.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:24:21 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-74-68-121-85.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:24:38 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:25:14 -!- italic [~italic@cpe-69-207-6-88.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:25:44 -!- fnordus [~dnall@70.70.0.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:28:09 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 04:29:09 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.12.21] has joined #lisp 04:31:18 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.12.21] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:33:58 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:34:38 qzg [~qzg@ppp227.ld.centurytel.net] has joined #lisp 04:38:09 -!- qzg [~qzg@ppp227.ld.centurytel.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:38:34 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 04:38:51 egoz [~Egoz@202.70.51.80] has joined #lisp 04:39:04 -!- hjec [~IceChat7@c-66-176-126-91.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:39:27 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 04:41:42 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 04:41:47 -!- nunb [~nundan@59.178.219.120] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:42:05 -!- rme [rme@clozure-621E22E.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 04:42:05 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-106-142-32.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 04:42:38 nunb [~nundan@59.178.73.211] has joined #lisp 04:43:03 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has joined #lisp 04:43:57 ok guys thx for the help, i go to sleep now b/c it's 6AM 04:43:59 -!- maxigas [~user@host86-186-250-225.range86-186.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:45:43 pinterface [~pinterfac@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has joined #lisp 04:49:24 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-mvcpdrresybmorxn] has joined #lisp 04:50:39 tks [~tks@211-9-54-206.cust.bit-drive.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:50:43 -!- tks [~tks@211-9-54-206.cust.bit-drive.ne.jp] has left #lisp 04:54:20 -!- pinterface [~pinterfac@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has left #lisp 04:55:42 quotemstr_ [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:57:00 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 04:58:29 gonzojive__ [~red@c-67-188-5-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:59:42 -!- quotemstr [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:59:42 -!- quotemstr_ is now known as quotemstr 05:00:06 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:00:53 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@c-67-188-5-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:01:19 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:02:29 sword [~sword@c-76-115-88-63.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:03:01 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 05:03:03 *shrug* .. why does sb-thread:make-thread's :name keyarg do type-checking now? :) .. i like putting random stuff in there (i.e., not just a simple-string) 05:03:29 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 05:03:36 ..e.g. i find some object that identifies the thread to be a better "description" of it than a string 05:04:10 for instance; (list server connection :output) ..or something 05:04:15 mishoo [~mishoo@host254-107-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 05:04:57 it's harder to go from some string --> server object, connection object .. etc. 05:07:00 i suppose i could create a my-thread struct that wrapped this meta-info and the sb-thread:thread struct, but meh 05:07:39 gotta run .. bbl. 05:14:08 beach` [~user@ABordeaux-158-1-79-243.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 05:14:38 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:16:25 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 05:16:28 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-3-21.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 05:18:03 fnordus [~dnall@70.70.0.215] has joined #lisp 05:18:33 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-158-1-77-198.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:18:57 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-86-179.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:19:36 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:21:25 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 05:21:37 fiveop [~fiveop@g229083246.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 05:22:47 -!- fusss [~kumi@li63-187.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:22:51 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:23:54 stassats [~stassats@pppoe.178-66-98-221.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 05:23:58 -!- stassats [~stassats@pppoe.178-66-98-221.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Changing host] 05:23:58 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 05:26:06 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:26:25 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 05:26:33 semyon421 [~semyon@109.188.57.213] has joined #lisp 05:29:58 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-168-152-229.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 05:31:57 -!- synthase [~synthase@adsl-220-175-182.mob.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:32:36 Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-179-194.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:32:54 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:32:58 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@85.253.74.238.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 05:33:52 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@85.253.74.238.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Client Quit] 05:34:48 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 05:36:28 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-11-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:40:02 Davidbrcz [david@212-198-83-2.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 05:44:28 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-166-139.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 05:45:50 c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 05:46:30 -!- beach` is now known as beach 05:46:34 -!- Davidbrcz [david@212-198-83-2.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:47:27 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-11-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:49:44 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:51:41 -!- rrice [~rrice@76.211.6.129] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:53:25 codeassembly [~givan@188.25.63.75] has joined #lisp 05:54:35 enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-99-162-100-58.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:55:58 jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 05:56:39 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:58:45 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 05:58:49 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 05:58:57 hello 05:59:08 hello 05:59:19 I'm continuing my experiment with CFFI 05:59:32 fantasticsid [~user@2001:da8:8001:2090:212:3fff:febf:613b] has joined #lisp 05:59:35 I've two questions 06:00:12 Use them wisely. 06:00:21 first one is why when I compile a defcfun I have a STYLE-WARNING: Undefined alien: "elm_win_title_set" 06:00:36 Zhivago, I try :) 06:00:52 secon one is a bit more complex for me 06:01:03 did you load your foreign library? 06:01:08 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@222-154-178-1.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 06:01:12 yes yes :) 06:01:47 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-qmfenbeaxiibffgl] has joined #lisp 06:01:48 stassats, stupid me :) 06:01:52 lol 06:02:48 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@g229083246.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 06:03:00 -!- sepeth [~user@78.180.94.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:03:36 well second one is the following: 06:05:07 -!- semyon421 [~semyon@109.188.57.213] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:05:40 hefner [~root@ppp-58-9-117-124.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 06:05:59 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 06:07:06 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 06:07:07 attila_lendvai_ [~ati@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 06:07:14 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c-d1b3e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:07:22 -!- quodlibetor [~user@ool-45723726.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:08:47 hi leo2007 06:09:21 leo2007: I think you'd want to use it like (slime-buffer-name :compilation), so you have to strip off the colon from the argument 06:09:26 kiuma pasted "how do I map win_del" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98482 06:09:47 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:10:41 leo2007: and helmut said he prefers "*Slime..." over *SLIME.." 06:10:52 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 06:10:56 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:11:00 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 06:11:36 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 06:11:42 I think network killed my vpn conn 06:12:00 here it is my paste http://paste.lisp.org/display/98482 06:13:47 reuben [~reuben@c-76-102-38-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:14:09 -!- reuben [~reuben@c-76-102-38-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 06:14:12 I'm complitely lost (no idea) with win-del 06:15:31 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 06:15:42 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@host254-107-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:16:31 snowbeard [~user@c-76-102-38-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:19:08 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 06:19:16 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.67.223] has joined #lisp 06:20:10 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.67.223] has quit [Client Quit] 06:20:52 more precisel how is typedef void (*Evas_Smart_Cb) (void *data, Evas_Object *obj, void *event_info); in CFFI ? 06:22:31 fatblueduck [~chris@pool-71-104-235-97.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:23:07 (rational (expt 10 0.3)) -> 8368737/4194304 06:23:09 why? 06:23:24 why not? 06:24:04 if (expt 10 0.3) is 1.9952624 shouldn't (rational (expt 10 0.3)) be... 06:24:05 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:24:14 i see 06:24:22 :P 06:24:25 haha 06:25:05 tcr: thanks for the emacs tip! 06:25:22 what emacs tip did I miss? 06:26:56 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:27:41 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 06:28:26 stassats, any idea ? 06:28:57 kiuma: i don't know a bit about FFI, and CFFI in particular 06:29:30 dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:30:25 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 06:30:35 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 06:30:55 ah, ok 06:31:14 here it's nearly 0 06:32:00 i'd start with examples, understanding them, playing with them 06:32:04 -!- maden [~maden@dsl-156-147.aei.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:33:26 kiuma: I think :POINTER is the right type 06:33:42 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:35:25 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 06:36:58 ost, right but then how do I call it ? 06:37:42 kiuma: you get an address of win_del with (foreign-symbol-pointer "win_del") 06:38:08 kiuma: then pass it 06:38:18 ok thenk you, I'll try 06:41:15 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Quit: off to work] 06:41:39 ost, but win_del is not defined into the library 06:42:26 it's the user code: see http://trac.enlightenment.org/e/wiki/Elementary 06:42:45 "Hello world" (I feel so dummy) 06:43:13 s/so/such a/ 06:45:47 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:46:19 good morning 06:47:16 mishoo [~mishoo@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 06:47:59 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:48:03 Zhivago, I meant very with so :) 06:48:16 Yes, I know. 06:48:40 "I feel such a dummy" has that meaning. Alternately you could use "I feel so dumb." 06:48:41 The sad thing, is that in CL it's particularly true :) 06:48:54 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:49:35 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 06:50:34 kiuma: hmm static. I don't see how you can access win_del without changing C source 06:50:39 -!- snowbeard [~user@c-76-102-38-10.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 06:51:40 ost, I'm only trying to use elementary library from project enlightenment.org 06:51:44 vtl [~user@nat/redhat/x-ggfrujahazkhmfdi] has joined #lisp 06:53:58 I cannot change anything inside C code because I've no C code, the only option is to translate/bind with CFFI "typedef void (*Evas_Smart_Cb) (void *data, Evas_Object *obj, void *event_info);" that I don't know. Then how to create a new instance of it (that I don't know too) 06:55:11 kiuma: type conversion is not an issue, what you need is an address of a callback 06:55:32 that I have to create from zero 06:55:50 and in CL 06:56:01 at least it's what I'd like 06:56:06 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 06:56:36 kiuma: and CFFI supports callbacks 06:57:35 is it defcallbac ? 06:57:59 fiveop [~fiveop@dfn189.rz.tu-ilmenau.de] has joined #lisp 06:58:15 It exactly seems what I need :) 06:58:21 ost, thanks 06:59:16 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-135-10.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: night] 07:00:53 ost, last thing just to be sure should I (defcallback win-del ....) and then pass (callback win-del )to evas-object-smart-callback-add ? 07:01:25 hello mvilleneuve, feeling any better? 07:01:46 kiuma: yes, something like that 07:02:37 thank again, I hope to have luck with my first experiment with CFFI :) 07:04:23 mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has joined #lisp 07:06:41 bytecolor [~user@adsl-70-136-248-12.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:10:36 beach: I think so, but yesterday it got worse in the afternoon, so I can't say for sure 07:10:41 beach: how was monday night? 07:10:59 mvilleneuve: Nice. The last ones left at 4 in the morning. 07:11:16 nice indeed :) 07:11:25 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:11:42 so what's the best way to apply a func to a vector? (apply #'foo #(1 2 3)) 07:12:05 bytecolor: Sometimes, reduce works. 07:12:28 oh? hrm 07:12:51 Why not use map? 07:13:19 anair_84 [~anair_84@ip68-108-251-45.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:13:20 Zhivago: They don't do the same thing. 07:13:31 ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has joined #lisp 07:13:59 Zhivago: well, that's what I want to know. what is the best way. 07:14:03 Depends on what he means. Reduce doesn't do that either. 07:14:10 just replace a list with a vector in an aply call 07:14:17 *apply 07:14:33 bytecolor: Well, there's always coerce, I guess. 07:14:34 how do i represent a new line in a common lisp string , are there some good documentation sources, reference sources , I am a complete newbie using sbcl 07:14:35 bytecolor: Can you say somtething more about the nature of #'foo? 07:14:35 unpack the vector as if they are the args to the funciton 07:14:52 bytecolor: Why do you want to do this? 07:15:03 anair_84: In a normal string? By a literal newline 07:15:20 (defun foo (x y z) ...) (apply #'foo #(1 2 3)) 07:15:27 anair_84: there's also cl-interpol for that kind thing. But usually you just use the ~% format directive 07:15:37 So, where do you get that #(1 2 3) from? 07:15:48 cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 07:16:11 anair_84: (format nil "Hellow~%World") 07:16:19 Zhivago: the data is stored as an array of #(x y z) 07:16:26 tcr: thanks 07:16:32 Well, (map 'list #'identity #(1 2 3)) will do what you want. 07:16:36 anair_84: Another way is (concatenate "Hello" (string #\Newline) "World") 07:17:01 Zhivago: and that's exactly what I've been using, but I wanted a second opinion 07:17:03 Is the arity fixed? 07:17:11 yes 07:17:12 anair_84: sorry, (concatenate 'string "Hello" (string #\Newline) "World") 07:17:29 Then why not just (foo (aref x 0) (aref x 1) (aref x 2)) ? 07:17:36 bytecolor: For someone who wants help, you are incredibly unhelpful. Zhivago was asking who the arguments ended up in a vector in the first place. 07:17:42 Zhivago: is that any slower/faster? 07:17:54 If the arity is fixed, consider using DEFSTRUCT and :TYPE VECTOR 07:18:00 beach: I told him 07:18:02 I presume that it would be significantly more optimizable by a not sufficiently intelligent compiler. 07:18:23 Actually, I think he's answered the questions reasonably. 07:18:29 ASau` [~user@77.246.230.100] has joined #lisp 07:18:36 I guess I missed it. 07:18:50 Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.233] has joined #lisp 07:18:51 Although it's true that he didn't say why they're in vectors, but apparantly it's a significantly fixed decision for other reasons. 07:18:58 I _could_ store the coordinates as a list, but I have a matrix/vector lib that expects vectors 07:19:10 That would have been a better answer, yes. 07:19:20 ahaha, fair enough 07:19:25 Oh, so they are coordinates? 07:19:33 nod 07:19:34 sounds like you should use defstruct + :type vector 07:19:51 tcr: oooo, hadn't thought of that, hrm 07:20:15 tcr: yeah the second way was what i was looking for thanks 07:22:15 I've got a C struct I'm trying to lispify 07:22:33 http://tfc.duke.free.fr/coding/md2-specs-en.html 07:22:44 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:22:58 It's all working, but I'm refactoring now 07:24:10 well actually it's the _intent_ I'm trying to lispify 07:25:05 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.12.21] has joined #lisp 07:27:01 tantan2 [tt@unaffiliated/samuel9999] has joined #lisp 07:27:05 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 07:28:07 Soulman [~kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 07:28:32 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 07:29:50 -!- varjagg is now known as varjag 07:31:24 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:31:38 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.233] has quit [*.net *.split] 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-!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:58:22 jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 07:58:57 newbie question how would i create a two dimensional array of integers (make-array 2 'integer) , seems to be throwing an error 07:58:58 tcr: the patch will seem very trivial. Sorry I was a bit exhausted yesterday. I will prepare the patch now. 08:00:00 anair_84: (make-array '(3 4) :element-type 'integer) 08:00:39 ost : ahh , sorry for the basic question but thanks 08:00:42 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-99-162-100-58.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: sleeeep!] 08:00:48 -!- hefner [~root@ppp-58-9-117-124.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:01:11 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 08:01:49 potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f667912-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 08:02:09 anair_84: also providing an integer initial-element would be wise 08:02:18 leo2007: no problem 08:02:52 leo2007: everyone starts with trivial stuff 08:03:26 I have more easy stuff I could delegate to you if you want 08:04:05 tcr: ;) I would love to change fuzzy completion to the way I want it. 08:05:08 hefner [~root@ppp-61-90-103-60.revip.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 08:07:33 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:08:00 leo2007 annotated #98472 "2 try" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98472#1 08:08:17 tcr: the function can look something like #1? 08:09:14 Younder [~jthing@212.251.245.39] has joined #lisp 08:09:39 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:10:04 If you have any problems with'the common lisp cookbook' this is the time to wage them.. 08:10:31 leo2007: I'd just (assert (keywordp ...)) 08:11:09 you want to force use keywords? 08:11:43 tcr: that just doesn'rt make any sense 08:12:26 what are you trying to do.. generalize.. 08:12:30 -!- plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-121-164.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:12:46 leo2007: sure 08:12:54 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 08:13:52 Edward_ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-21-177.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:14:07 tcr: ok. Another thing sldb uses a name like this (format "*sldb %s/%s*" (slime-connection-name) thread) 08:14:08 Is it microwave safe? 08:14:32 leo2007: no let that unchanged, just like the slime repl 08:14:50 leo2007: and also make the slime-xref buffer not contain :call etc, but just call it (slime-buffer-name :xref) 08:14:55 -!- ThomasI [~thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit [Quit: Bye Bye!] 08:16:07 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 08:19:08 tcr: and names like (get-buffer-create "*SLIME Source Form*") should be supported right? i.e. replace - with " " in TYPE? 08:19:43 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.18] has joined #lisp 08:19:51 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:20:24 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 08:20:41 I'd just call it (slime-buffer-name :source) 08:21:02 ok 08:23:19 -!- smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 08:23:35 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:26:09 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:26:09 -!- TR2N [email@89.180.190.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:27:03 Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.233] has joined #lisp 08:29:14 leo2007 annotated #98472 "patch" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98472#2 08:29:57 tcr: patch attached. some of them are left untouched when I don't know what to do with them. 08:30:26 hlavaty [~user@77-22-100-58-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:31:24 do not canonicalize *slime-events* 08:31:53 ok 08:32:00 anything else? 08:32:25 make sure to capitalize the argument passed to slime-buffer-name 08:32:44 which did you leave untouched? Also you have to go over the whole source base 08:33:03 just grep for "\* 08:33:20 (Oh I see you did capitalize, good!) 08:33:29 tcr: I will do that in minute. xref and (format "*SLIME Description <%s>*" (slime-connection-name)) for example 08:34:30 call it (slime-buffer-name :xref), and (slime-buffer-name :description) 08:34:39 all right 08:36:15 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:37:47 -!- egoz [~Egoz@202.70.51.80] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:38:15 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.107] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:38:18 what to do with names in the doc string? 08:38:20 egoz [~Egoz@202.70.51.80] has joined #lisp 08:38:43 example? 08:39:09 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:39:42 -!- sytse [sytse@speedy.student.ipv6.utwente.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:42:11 -!- cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 08:42:44 tcr: in slime.el there's "*slime-events* buffer." 08:43:18 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@85.253.74.238.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 08:43:33 *slime-events* buffer stays anyway 08:43:41 -!- codeassembly [~givan@188.25.63.75] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:45:18 -!- stray_hound__ [~stray@c-24-245-50-140.hsd1.wi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: stray_hound__] 08:46:21 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279632868.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:46:52 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:47:00 -!- vtl [~user@nat/redhat/x-ggfrujahazkhmfdi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:47:53 -!- tantan2 [tt@unaffiliated/samuel9999] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:49:26 TR2N` [email@89.180.179.193] has joined #lisp 08:49:44 semyon421 [~semyon@wifi-1b.itep.ru] has joined #lisp 08:49:45 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:49:59 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441192.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 08:50:13 -!- TR2N` is now known as TR2N 08:51:13 tantan25 [tt@unaffiliated/samuel9999] has joined #lisp 08:51:15 jgracin [~jgracin@dh111-186.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 08:53:02 -!- drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:53:19 -!- fatblueduck [~chris@pool-71-104-235-97.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 08:55:29 vtl [~user@nat/redhat/x-yerqagirdkqsyikh] has joined #lisp 08:56:50 stray_hound__ [~stray@c-24-245-50-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:56:59 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:58:19 -!- tltstc [~tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:00:27 tltstc [~tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:01:06 Edward__ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-24-129.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:03:18 -!- Edward_ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-21-177.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:04:06 -!- segmond [~seg@adsl-99-29-144-168.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:04:49 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:04:57 when I try to load a lisp file in clisp and I get error, it only says "invalid form" 09:05:08 is there a way to get more info where the error might be 09:05:09 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@80-235-108-238-dsl.kjj.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 09:05:13 Aperculum: You must be doing something wrong. 09:05:23 Aperculum: Could you paste your attempt to load! 09:05:32 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 09:05:32 minion: Tell Aperculum about lisppaste 09:06:24 Xof [~crhodes@158.223.51.79] has joined #lisp 09:07:06 but I'm new and my code is unlispy :( 09:07:36 Aperculum: Well, if you want help, you'll have to show it. 09:07:41 yeah 09:07:45 moment please 09:07:50 Aperculum: Besides, you might learn a few things from the remarks. 09:07:56 Aperculum pasted ""Invalid form" error" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98486 09:08:11 please don't be to harsh 09:08:32 For one thing (1) is an illegal form. 09:08:46 should it be '(1) then? 09:08:48 It means you are trying to call the function 1 with no arguments. 09:08:53 ah 09:09:00 Aperculum: I don't know. It depends on what you want to do. 09:09:08 list with only 1 in it 09:09:15 Yeah, then you need to quote it. 09:09:23 oh, it loaded 09:09:38 hah, but it fails 09:09:43 how do I print a list 09:09:56 Whel it's a step in the right direction. 09:10:01 *Well 09:10:07 I mean, return a list 09:10:53 Aperculum: What book do you use to learn Common Lisp from? 09:11:21 practical common lisp is coming but now I'm using online resources 09:11:31 pcl is also available online 09:11:31 Aperculum: First, you need to indent your code, beacuse you can't assume that others are willing to count parentheses. 09:11:33 like succesful common lisp and practical common lisp 09:11:44 Aperculum: Lispers depend on the indentation to be correct. 09:11:46 beach: I did indent it 09:12:06 or am I doing it wrong? 09:12:07 OK, it could be my browser again. Hold on... 09:12:46 Aperculum: The (setq ...) should not be aligned under the (progn 09:12:59 oh, yeah, you're right 09:13:19 I want to compile maxima with either CMUCL or SBCL, aiming for reasonable performance. Which should I choose? 09:13:27 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 09:13:31 Aperculum: And the (remove (* ...)) is badly aligned, but that's probably because you didn't put slime-indentation in your slime-setup form. 09:14:05 Aperculum: (primelist) is probably wrong to, because you are trying to call the function named primelist with no arguments. 09:14:19 how do I return the primelist 09:14:29 You just say primelest 09:14:32 primelist 09:14:55 If you stick parentheses around something, it means you are calling a function (I am simplifying a little). 09:15:00 hah, now it loads and runs but doesn't produce what I want :) 09:15:10 See, things are improving. 09:15:20 beach: yeah, I know that but I sometimes forget :) 09:16:00 Aperculum: What do you think (remove ...) is doing? The remove function has no side effects. 09:16:01 Aperculum: In Lisp you typically do not develop in a edit-compile-run cycle 09:16:18 Aperculum: Same question for (find ...) 09:16:44 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 09:16:53 beach: remove should remove all instances of last thing in the primelist from numberlist 09:17:08 Oh, sorry, the find is OK. 09:17:27 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 09:17:28 Aperculum: The remove function has no side effects. It returns a new list with those things removed. 09:17:31 or does it return the list with those changes instead of altering the other 09:17:38 yeah, I see 09:17:40 thanks 09:18:04 so I'll just put (setq primelist (remove ...)) around it? 09:18:19 Aperculum: It seems strange to first test if there is such an element, and remove it if there is. Why not just remove it. 09:18:35 (setq numberlist? 09:18:39 yes 09:18:43 right 09:19:05 yeah, I was thinking of that when I created it but I was more like porting some python script 09:19:09 Some more hints: (setq (1+ )) is written (incf ) 09:19:19 Aperculum: also, you should get in the habit of using setf 09:19:52 Ralith: some examples use setq and others user setf but I couldn't find explanation what's the difference 09:19:57 feel free to enlighten me 09:20:05 Aperculum: the (push primelist leftover) seems suspect as well. Did you mean (push leftover primelist)? 09:20:34 probably, I mean to push the leftovers to primelist 09:20:45 That's what I said, yes. 09:21:02 Aperculum: the functionality of setf is a superset of that of setq. 09:21:06 Furthermore, you have some undefined behavior in there. You are doing (setq s 0), but s is not defined. 09:21:28 Aperculum: It is much better introduce a local variable using let. 09:21:55 Aperculum: in addition to setq-style uses, it enables things like (setf (gethash key hash-table) value) 09:22:25 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:22:58 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.4] has joined #lisp 09:23:40 but if I introduce the variable using let, it only exist inside that let? 09:23:46 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!] 09:24:10 That's correct, but then you only use it inside the inner loop anyway. 09:24:41 that's true 09:25:05 so setf or setq doesn't really define the variable? 09:25:09 it only sets the value? 09:25:13 Correct. 09:25:26 I see, this I did not know 09:26:23 but since doing setf for s is bad, doesn't the same apply to primelist and numberlist too? 09:26:38 It does. 09:27:37 By the way, you can remove the (progn. There is an implicit progn in every function. 09:28:02 I see, I wasn't sure about that either so I put it there just in case :) 09:28:31 Aperculum: As a general rule, when you are not sure, it is better to look up the answer than to guess. 09:28:46 yes, that's true 09:29:14 Aperculum: Well, that should keep you busy for a while... 09:30:37 yes, thanks a lot beach, Ralith 09:33:40 pavelludiq [~c28d2f82@gateway/web/freenode/x-ttkinieimfzbxfnz] has joined #lisp 09:34:26 Aperculum: I _expect_ people in here to be blunt when I paste code. Welcome it actually. 09:35:04 yes, I appreciate that, I think I'm just afraid of the ridicule 09:35:12 :) 09:35:25 ahaha, nod, I know the feeling 09:36:08 I just wear a thick skin and keep hacking 09:36:11 Aperculum: To me, learning is about systematically putting oneself in a position of inferiority. There is always the risk of being made fun of, but it's worth it. 09:37:06 Aperculum: An article that might interest you: http://dept-info.labri.fr/~strandh/Essays/psychology.html 09:38:14 thanks 09:39:46 I do accept that I'm not as good as most anyone here, it just has been some time since I was in this position last 09:41:29 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-mvcpdrresybmorxn] has left #lisp 09:43:04 But that probably means that you haven't been learning anything for some time :) 09:43:44 oh, I have learned but I haven't encountered problems that need humen intervention to solve :) 09:45:47 sytse [sytse@speedy.student.ipv6.utwente.nl] has joined #lisp 09:46:05 it's not that I don't prefer real humans answering me, I just usually read the manual first as is recommended 09:47:11 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-jnizfffqadocgiub] has joined #lisp 09:47:45 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 09:50:22 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@80-235-108-238-dsl.kjj.estpak.ee] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 09:52:15 ugh... just started reading that essay and I'm already guilty of not learning the emacs interface to git... 09:53:01 already guilty of not learning emacs 09:53:58 anyone have any recomentations of books on concurrent programming? 09:54:03 Aperculum: You don't have to learn much of Emacs to make use of it for your adventure 09:54:11 I have already got 'The art of multiprocessor programmng' 09:54:40 tcr: just the slimy part? ;) 09:54:44 slime 09:55:12 Basically, do the Emacs tutorial (20minutes) 09:55:28 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:55:31 Read the SLIME user maual 09:57:05 so, what's the situation on the ELS registration? are will still required to fax full credit card details, including the security code? 09:57:37 nurv [nurv@83.231.63.237] has joined #lisp 09:57:38 if i knew beforehand, i would have chosen the +10 eur extra for bank transfer 09:57:48 Morning. 09:57:52 abdoo [~ericsson@cacher3.ericsson.net] has joined #lisp 09:57:57 -!- attila_lendvai_ is now known as attila_lendvai 09:58:25 *attila_lendvai* pokes Xof, fe[nl]ix 09:58:53 you can I believe change your registration to register by bank transfer 09:58:57 famous last words 09:59:04 if you do, just drop Antonio an e-mail 09:59:11 *attila_lendvai* checks 10:03:52 -!- dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:04:08 somecodehere` [~ingvar@77-233-95-4.televork.ee] has joined #lisp 10:04:22 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-52.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:04:53 *attila_lendvai* doesn't see any automated possibility to change the registration, so he'll just bend to the facts and fax it... 10:05:17 -!- pavelludiq [~c28d2f82@gateway/web/freenode/x-ttkinieimfzbxfnz] has quit [] 10:05:42 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@85.253.74.238.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 10:06:17 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:10:19 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:10:42 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@85.253.74.238.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:12:57 -!- thijso [~thijs@83.98.233.115] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:14:05 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@85.253.74.238.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 10:15:00 PissedNu1lock [~resteven@igwe32.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 10:15:04 debiandebian_ [~chatzilla@ntszok008047.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:15:34 bobbysmith0071 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 10:16:00 udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-etprcuwxinqtajok] has joined #lisp 10:16:04 hohum_ [dcorbe@apollo.corbe.net] has joined #lisp 10:16:39 Xof: I tried to send reminder to sbcl-devel and got bounce. 10:16:46 Xof: will look at it in the evening. 10:16:57 Xof: any changes? 10:18:50 phadthai_ [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 10:19:00 cmm- [~cmm@bzq-79-176-201-4.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 10:19:00 kajic_ [~kajic@Psilocybe.Update.UU.SE] has joined #lisp 10:19:03 cYmen_ [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has joined #lisp 10:20:44 bgs1001 [znc@57o9.org] has joined #lisp 10:23:51 tcr: what to do with *slime-scratch*? 10:24:00 leave it as is 10:24:11 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@ip68-108-251-45.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:24:11 -!- nunb [~nundan@59.178.73.211] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:24:11 -!- debiandebian [~chatzilla@ntszok008047.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:24:11 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-176-201-4.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:24:11 -!- sjbach [~sjbach__@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:24:11 -!- alec [~aberryman@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:24:11 -!- kajic [~kajic@Psilocybe.Update.UU.SE] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:24:11 -!- koning_robot [~aap@88.159.110.31] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:24:11 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:24:11 -!- spoofy [~spoof@78.31.74.25] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:24:11 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:24:11 -!- hohum [dcorbe@apollo.corbe.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:24:11 -!- bgs000 [57o9@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:24:11 -!- cYmen [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:24:11 -!- PissedNumlock [~resteven@igwe32.vub.ac.be] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:24:11 -!- vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:24:37 nunb [~nundan@59.178.73.211] has joined #lisp 10:25:12 leo2007: Perhaps those should be canonicalized, too, but I have no strong opinion so I opt for not being invasive too gratuitously 10:25:27 ok 10:25:56 and this one "*slime class browser*" 10:26:20 call it :browser 10:26:34 don't think it works anyway 10:26:59 what doesn't work? 10:27:17 alec [~aberryman@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 10:27:20 the class browser, it's pretty sucky from my memories 10:27:28 koning_robot [~aap@88.159.110.31] has joined #lisp 10:28:36 spoofy [~nespoof@78.31.74.25] has joined #lisp 10:28:38 vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has joined #lisp 10:28:44 If you truncate a string "FooBarQuux" like "Foo..Quux", what's the right words to describe it? "It's abbreviated in the middle"?.. in the middle of what? How would you express that? 10:28:52 tcr: some hidden buffers like this one " *slime-fontify*" 10:29:07 sjbach [~sjbach__@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 10:29:33 leave it 10:29:37 ok 10:31:27 tcr: I think you could say the middle was elided 10:32:15 tcr: this one "*slime-scratch*"? 10:32:17 Well I want to give reason, I know say "They're abbreviated to their middle since ..." 10:32:25 leo2007: We had that already :-) 10:32:46 do you want to canonicalize it? 10:32:58 nope 10:33:17 tcr: sorry, to ask it twice. 10:33:33 hm, perhaps it makes sense to use a scheme of *slime-foo* 10:34:05 Yeah I think that's how you should do it. Then you can also use it for slime-scratch slime-events etc 10:34:41 leo2007 annotated #98472 "3 try" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98472#3 10:34:53 tcr: I think that's as thorough as I can go. 10:35:54 tcr: cheat-sheet and notes need a second thought 10:37:23 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@85.253.74.238.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 10:37:27 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-jnizfffqadocgiub] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:39:32 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-xuwxjdfvruwpzmkm] has joined #lisp 10:39:57 -!- clog [nef@bespin.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:40:01 clog [nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 10:40:28 schoppenhauer [~senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 10:43:00 -!- nunb [~nundan@59.178.73.211] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 10:43:33 nunb [~nundan@59.178.199.245] has joined #lisp 10:45:55 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dfn189.rz.tu-ilmenau.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 10:47:30 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 10:48:17 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:50:59 anair_84 [~anair_84@ip68-108-251-45.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 10:54:08 hi all 10:56:16 attila_lendvai: ping 10:57:01 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-xuwxjdfvruwpzmkm] has left #lisp 10:57:27 fe[nl]ix, hi 10:57:29 wall 10:57:41 Paraselene [~Not@79-68-232-53.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #lisp 10:57:53 attila_lendvai: actually, that was a pong 10:57:57 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-078-042-205-245.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 10:58:28 hello 10:58:35 sounds wery 70's 10:58:49 fe[nl]ix, i was just wondering if you know anything new re credit card numbers and els registration... but i guess i'll just fax it away. we don't keep much money on the card anyway... 10:59:08 fantasticsid [~user@2001:da8:8001:2090:212:3fff:febf:613b] has joined #lisp 10:59:16 attila_lendvai, :) 11:00:06 fe[nl]ix, ave, I'm trying to ask on #e if there is some liper there and why do I have that Unhandled memory fault at #x0. 11:00:15 dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:00:29 It seems devs are still sleeping :) 11:00:34 kiuma, at adress 0 11:00:59 kiuma, that I only know from C as a nul pointer 11:01:09 Isn't that the Lisp equivalent of dereferncing a null pointer? 11:01:12 attila_lendvai: I too switched payment method 11:01:18 kiuma, You are probaly calling into a C lib 11:01:23 -!- schoppenhauer [~senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:01:30 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:01:44 fe[nl]ix, how exactly? i can't seem to find a way on the website 11:01:46 attila_lendvai: as Krystof mentioned, credit cards aren't very secure, but sending the data by fax is ridiculous 11:02:10 Younder, Yes, I'm using CFFI, I don't know why do I have that error on (elm-win-add (null-pointer) "hello" :elm-win-basic) 11:02:11 attila_lendvai: I re-registered 11:02:18 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-cowuxdzazrimrasl] has joined #lisp 11:02:49 Younder, it should be the equivalent of elm_win_add(NULL, "hello", ELM_WIN_BASIC); I think 11:03:30 kiuma, No you hav a parens arount the first argument 11:06:04 Younder, so how should I translate NULL? If I use nil instead, I get The value NIL is not of type SB-SYS:SYSTEM-AREA-POINTER. 11:06:25 kiuma: (null-pointer) is ok 11:06:36 -!- abdoo [~ericsson@cacher3.ericsson.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:07:14 abdoo [~ericsson@cacher3.ericsson.net] has joined #lisp 11:07:27 christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 11:07:44 kiuma, C's null is 0 11:08:23 try that 11:08:27 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has joined #lisp 11:09:31 The value 0 is not of type SB-SYS:SYSTEM-AREA-POINTER. 11:11:21 sigh 11:11:44 kiuma: which type is ELM_WIN_BASIC? 11:12:40 it's a typedef 11:12:49 ahh 11:12:53 let me check 11:13:16 kiuma: you can't pass keyword to foreign code 11:13:48 -!- abdoo [~ericsson@cacher3.ericsson.net] has left #lisp 11:13:51 kiuma: define a constant +elm-win-basic+ with value of C's ELM_WIN_BASIC 11:14:57 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has joined #lisp 11:15:34 I had the suspect but how then : http://pastebin.com/kyP607UZ 11:16:02 I don't know what's the ELM_WIN_BASIC value 11:16:09 zero 11:16:10 zero? 11:16:30 so 0 is the number 11:16:41 http://common-lisp.net/project/cffi/manual/html_node/defcenum.html#defcenum 11:16:42 ELM_WIN_DIALOG_BASIC is 1 and so on 11:16:54 defcenum 11:17:16 ost no 0 11:17:46 ok I try to modify the defcfun 11:17:52 billstclair [~billstcla@dsl-65-219-212-221.taconic.net] has joined #lisp 11:17:52 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@dsl-65-219-212-221.taconic.net] has quit [Changing host] 11:17:52 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 11:17:56 in C you start with 0 11:18:19 kiuma, defcenum! 11:18:26 kwinz3 [~kwinz@e195-048.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 11:19:07 Younder, already did, even if I don't know if correctly 11:19:48 synthase [~synthase@adsl-220-175-182.mob.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 11:20:17 why don't you paste the bit of offensive cod that you have isolated? 11:20:41 kiuma pasted "CFFI problem" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98495 11:20:59 Younder, done 11:21:55 kiuma, you didn't give the function a lisp name 11:21:59 kiuma: :elm-win-basic is a Lisp keyword, which evaluates to itself, not to 0 11:23:04 kiuma: ah, I see 11:23:27 what ? 11:23:38 "Keywords will be automatically converted to values and vice-versa when being passed as arguments to or returned from foreign functions, respectively." 11:23:58 sorry I missed that 11:24:12 do I have written something not correctly ? 11:25:02 kiuma: try it now 11:27:24 why do you call 0 11:27:46 :elm-win-basic is 0 11:28:15 I the C example I see that the code is in a function named elm_main 11:28:18 -!- semyon421 [~semyon@wifi-1b.itep.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:28:26 but main() is hidden in a macro named ELM_MAIN 11:28:31 ost, what ? 11:28:37 Pip [~pip@unaffiliated/pip] has joined #lisp 11:28:38 fe[nl]ix, right 11:28:49 which probably initializes some global environment 11:28:51 ahh, I think I'm getting it :) 11:29:24 thank god, because I am really confused 11:29:24 you'll have to find a way to call ELM_MAIN 11:29:32 or replicate its functionality 11:29:42 yeaa , I'll digg into the code 11:29:46 bbl 11:30:46 fe[nl]ix, where did you see tha EML_MAIN in that post? 11:33:34 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 11:34:18 Younder: http://trac.enlightenment.org/e/wiki/Elementary 11:35:29 fiveop [~fiveop@g229083246.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:35:44 not so elementary then.. a windows system 11:36:07 whatever 11:39:06 back 11:39:33 ehee Younder maybe elementary in C :) 11:40:46 fe[nl]ix, you are very right #define ELM_MAIN() int main(int argc, char **argv) {elm_init(argc, argv); return elm_main(argc, argv);} 11:41:10 I try then :) 11:41:59 how char **argv is in CFFI ? 11:42:16 :pointer 11:42:52 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 11:43:40 ost no, that is *pointer 11:44:05 does exixt :*pointer ? 11:44:12 -!- Guest29494 [~892b9a51@gateway/web/freenode/x-zvigzixtkcyabkzl] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:44:16 **argv is a pointer to a pointer 11:44:47 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@e195-048.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:45:10 yes sure but how is defcfun ? (defcfun "elm_init" (argc :int) (argv :pointer)) ? 11:45:18 kiuma, you need a :pointer to a :pointer 11:45:22 CFFI treats all pointers equally, only autoconverting char* to Lisp strings and vice versa 11:45:46 ost, OK 11:46:21 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:46:22 address would be better then 11:46:39 ost: that's not a special-case, that's just an example of CFFI's support for higher-level types. 11:47:04 schoppenhauer [~senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 11:47:05 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-129-91.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 11:47:22 Ralith: true 11:49:12 -!- fantasticsid [~user@2001:da8:8001:2090:212:3fff:febf:613b] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:49:15 -!- Suczker [~sucker@fw.cro.cz] has left #lisp 11:49:27 WOW it's starting to work !!!! 11:49:46 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:50:00 kiuma: just call (elm-init 0 (null-pointer)) 11:50:17 yep, what I've just done 11:50:30 I LOVE CL :) 11:51:25 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 11:51:51 but autocomelete often locks my slime :( 11:52:58 what do you mean ? 11:55:21 -!- HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:56:57 *beach* learns how to write an input method in elisp. 11:57:24 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:58:19 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@42.176.250.195.sta.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 11:59:40 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 12:00:09 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:00:55 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 12:03:31 Joreji [~thomas@71-123.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:04:08 Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.233] has joined #lisp 12:08:26 The value 1.0 is not of type DOUBLE-FLOAT 12:08:29 why ? 12:08:38 kiuma: 1.0d0 is double-float 12:08:44 ok 12:08:45 kiuma: that depends on the value of *read-default-float-format* 12:08:52 -!- schoppenhauer [~senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:09:35 Xach, thanks 12:09:49 kiuma: you can avoid ambiguity with the d0 suffix 12:10:08 My first experiment with CFFI is nearly done , and nearly works 12:10:09 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 12:10:44 except for the callback (please I know that code is orrible, but it only was an experiment) 12:11:32 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:12:03 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:12:24 kiuma pasted "The callback doesnt work (I can't close the window)" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98498 12:13:12 what's wrong with the callback ? The code that I'm following is :http://trac.enlightenment.org/e/wiki/Elementary (Hello World) 12:14:46 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 12:15:03 -!- TR2N [email@89.180.179.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:16:12 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 12:20:53 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-153-248.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:21:29 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 12:21:31 vu3rdd` [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 12:22:43 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:23:03 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.12.21] has joined #lisp 12:23:34 netytan [~netytan@85.211.63.239] has joined #lisp 12:24:02 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:26:05 -!- netytan [~netytan@85.211.63.239] has left #lisp 12:26:21 Xantoz [~hejhej@c-bbb5e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 12:27:18 is there a way to explicitly tell a hash table to grow? 12:28:14 kiuma: what's the problem with callback? 12:28:32 clop: only when you initialise it. 12:29:04 davertron [~Dave@vt-sb-1.logicsupply.com] has joined #lisp 12:29:10 pkhuong, ok, thanks, that's what it looked like... 12:31:29 ... reinitialising and copying the data back to a fresh table might be faster. 12:31:47 yeah 12:31:58 especially if you want it to grow a whole lot and it doesn't have much in it yet 12:32:19 or even if it does have a lot in it and you expect a resize. 12:32:48 -!- tantan25 is now known as Samuel9999 12:33:29 vtl: the "hello woorld" window doesn't close, so I suppose I've some problems with the callback definition 12:34:05 but at least I can create a window, it's more then what I expected from my skill :) 12:35:05 kiuma: does your sw use multithreading? 12:35:24 vtl, sw ? 12:35:30 software 12:35:34 sbcl , yes 12:36:00 elementary ... I don't know, I suppose yes 12:36:04 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-135-10.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 12:36:11 kiuma: callbacks doesn't work from another thread in SBCL 12:36:33 kiuma: working with EWL? 12:36:50 vtl: they wouldn't "not work" as much as crash hard. 12:37:16 still, it might be a better idea to work with an event pump model. 12:37:54 ost` [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 12:37:54 -!- ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:37:58 p_l, ewl is deprecated, now there is elementary 12:39:17 pkhuong, whatever, I have to figure how to translate the evas_object_smart_callback_add(win, "delete,request", win_del, NULL); C statement 12:39:46 bizarrefish [~lee@host86-151-164-189.range86-151.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:39:47 where win_del is static void win_del(void *data, Evas_Object *obj, void *event_info) {....} 12:39:50 lo, all 12:39:57 hello 12:40:10 hello bizarrefish 12:40:57 -!- Pip [~pip@unaffiliated/pip] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:41:07 bizarrefish: How is reading the PCL coming? 12:41:35 beach: heh, haven't done much of lisp actually, been working on my crappy kernel :-/ 12:41:58 That wouldn't be mutually exclusive. 12:42:03 TR2N` [email@89.180.163.29] has joined #lisp 12:42:44 kiuma: are you sure strings are encoded correctly when passed to C? 12:43:35 -!- somecodehere` [~ingvar@77-233-95-4.televork.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:43:47 bizarrefish: put COS into your kernel (finally, a nice way of doing OO in C!) 12:44:40 kiuma: you could also add some tracing noise to see if you can show that the callback is even called. 12:45:12 -!- luis [~luis@nhop.r42.eu] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 12:45:25 -!- TR2N` is now known as TR2N 12:47:25 -!- tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:47:49 -!- devslashnull [~james@dyn-149.greentreefrog.net.au] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 12:48:39 bizarrefish: So I take it your kernel is not written in Lisp? Why? 12:48:52 heh 12:49:02 pkhuong, Yes the window rendes correctly 12:49:43 -!- Zhivago [~zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:50:51 beach: I suspect starting with Lisp for your first OS kernel is rather hard, unless you're using something like OSKit (which, nota bene, doesn't compile since GCC 3.x) 12:52:02 kiuma: given that rendering the window doesn't depend on callbacks, I don't see how that ensures the callback gets called. 12:52:27 -!- adlai_ [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:52:39 pkhuong, sure I was answering to the string encoding question 12:52:58 andreer [andreer@flode.pvv.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 12:53:58 pkhuong, with tracing do you mean to add something like (format t "callback entering") ? 12:54:05 sure. With a newline. 12:54:32 the next step is to code the callback in C. If even that doesn't work, I'd code the callback-setting function in C too, and then I'd start looking at your code very closely. 12:55:10 tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 12:55:18 -!- Joreji [~thomas@71-123.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:55:20 luis [~luis@nhop.r42.eu] has joined #lisp 12:56:53 and if you find out that threads are indeed an issue, I'd code a C wrapper to build a message queue. 12:58:04 pkhuong, even if I don't like this, (writing other C code) 12:58:45 anoyone here use LW? 12:58:53 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 12:59:38 adlai_ [~adlai@li63-187.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 12:59:41 SBLL sucks compared to LW multiprocesing. 12:59:52 SBCL 12:59:54 semyon421 [~semyon@dau.itep.ru] has joined #lisp 13:00:37 The biggest problem is the garbage collection 13:00:52 SBCL locks when updating 13:01:49 Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 13:02:09 Thats ok when you have one or rwo processors but is totally unacceptabe when dealing with 12 proccesors or more 13:04:25 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@42.176.250.195.sta.estpak.ee] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 13:04:37 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@42.176.250.195.sta.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 13:06:56 for how long lispworks could run only one thread at a time? 13:07:17 mmmm..... In truth my code works, but I can call (hello-world) only one time 13:07:43 It could depend from (elm-init ...) call 13:08:04 why is it that when I take (last) returns a list with the only element in it but (first) returns the thing itself? 13:08:10 -!- gonzojive__ [~red@c-67-188-5-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive__] 13:08:33 -!- quotemstr [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: quotemstr] 13:09:01 last returns n last conses 13:09:02 Aperculum: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Issues/iss209_w.htm 13:09:04 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 13:09:21 stassats, the 6 version has multiprocesing support 13:10:35 alright, what I should use to get the element then= 13:10:36 ? 13:10:47 (car (last ...)) 13:10:58 but getting the last element of a list is O(n) 13:10:58 ah, thanks 13:11:03 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 13:11:32 are you suggesting that I reverse the list and get the (first)? 13:11:47 butlast 13:12:06 Aperculum: that would be even more costlier 13:12:20 stassats: that was a joke :) 13:12:27 Joreji [~thomas@74-036.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:12:54 rrice [~rrice@76.211.6.129] has joined #lisp 13:13:15 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@42.176.250.195.sta.estpak.ee] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 13:13:18 (butlast '(1 2 3)) = '(2 3) 13:13:27 (butlast '(1 2 3)) = '(1 2) 13:13:33 sorry 13:13:34 but I want the last 13:13:36 Aperculum: i suggest either a) don't access the last element of a list b) don't use lists c) don't care about performance 13:13:38 not all but last 13:13:46 Aperculum, last then 13:13:53 I choose c for now 13:13:58 ? 13:14:07 I'll think again when I get more proficient in lisp 13:14:14 Aperculum: that's a wise decision 13:14:28 *hefner* usually chooses C *for* performance =p 13:14:43 The Lispefficency model is a bit hard to grasp 13:15:07 boo 13:15:41 carlocci [~nes@93.37.212.174] has joined #lisp 13:15:45 cost of random access to a linked list doesn't depend on Lisp 13:15:58 ahh, I think that the call to elm-shutdown killled the main thread (the one of slime) 13:16:03 Try Paradigms of artificial intelligence programming by Peter Norvig f 13:16:08 because I'm disconnected 13:16:38 It is the only book with optimation tips for Lisp 13:16:44 -!- koning_robot [~aap@88.159.110.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:17:15 Hi Xach 13:18:11 Mazingaro [~tetsuja@host10-230-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:19:39 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:22:06 vu3rdd`` [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 13:22:34 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:24:07 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:24:07 -!- vu3rdd` [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:24:41 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:25:31 arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 13:25:58 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:26:35 The hunchentoot 1.0 keeps breaking my programs 13:26:49 sigh 13:29:35 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:29:39 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:29:39 bigwavejake [~bigwaveja@rrcs-70-62-104-214.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:30:46 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 13:31:30 -!- bigwavejake [~bigwaveja@rrcs-70-62-104-214.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 13:33:14 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 13:33:40 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 13:36:03 I've built some updated versions of Lispbox for OS X and Linux based on recent Emacs, slime and SBCL sources. I haven't had a chance to do much testing yet. You can get them at http://www.pvv.ntnu.no/~andreer/lispbox/ , any comments you have would be appreciated. 13:39:17 andreer: cool! 13:40:21 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-078-042-205-245.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:42:11 -!- semyon421 [~semyon@dau.itep.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:43:09 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@222-154-178-1.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:44:04 -!- nurv [nurv@83.231.63.237] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:44:51 nurv [nurv@62.32.135.123] has joined #lisp 13:45:19 codeassembly [~givan@188.25.58.141] has joined #lisp 13:46:47 metasyntax` [~taylor@75-149-208-121-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:47:01 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:47:48 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:48:30 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 13:48:42 billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 13:48:42 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Changing host] 13:48:42 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 13:49:09 fe[nl]ix [~fenl]ix@aldebaran.cddr.org] has joined #lisp 13:49:45 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:53:04 saysjonathan [~saysjonat@199.44.23.32] has joined #lisp 13:53:16 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@42.176.250.195.sta.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 13:53:24 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-cowuxdzazrimrasl] has left #lisp 13:54:21 -!- saysjonathan [~saysjonat@199.44.23.32] has quit [Client Quit] 13:54:39 saysjonathan [~saysjonat@199.44.23.32] has joined #lisp 13:56:12 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 13:57:07 -!- saysjonathan [~saysjonat@199.44.23.32] has quit [Client Quit] 13:57:22 saysjonathan [~saysjonat@199.44.23.32] has joined #lisp 13:58:18 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-tyijqnagcmuwwxkb] has joined #lisp 13:58:24 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-tyijqnagcmuwwxkb] has left #lisp 13:58:39 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:58:43 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:59:00 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-htaomujhweceqyvt] has joined #lisp 13:59:02 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-htaomujhweceqyvt] has left #lisp 14:02:00 -!- saysjonathan [~saysjonat@199.44.23.32] has quit [Client Quit] 14:02:21 nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-133-216.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 14:02:30 G'morning all. 14:03:03 saysjonathan [~saysjonat@199.44.23.32] has joined #lisp 14:04:00 Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:04:17 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:05:00 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 14:05:14 -!- saysjonathan [~saysjonat@199.44.23.32] has quit [Client Quit] 14:05:29 saysjonathan [~saysjonat@199.44.23.32] has joined #lisp 14:05:55 -!- saysjonathan [~saysjonat@199.44.23.32] has quit [Client Quit] 14:08:25 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:09:28 saysjonathan [~saysjonat@199.44.23.32] has joined #lisp 14:09:53 schoppenhauer [~senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 14:11:46 -!- saysjonathan [~saysjonat@199.44.23.32] has quit [Client Quit] 14:12:04 saysjonathan [~saysjonat@199.44.23.32] has joined #lisp 14:13:46 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:13:53 -!- vtl [~user@nat/redhat/x-yerqagirdkqsyikh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:16:50 -!- saysjonathan [~saysjonat@199.44.23.32] has quit [Client Quit] 14:20:11 -!- jgracin [~jgracin@dh111-186.xnet.hr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:23:35 anyone ever run ECL inside an ObjC app (particularly an Objective 2 app with garbage collection enabled)? Do they get along with each other? 14:23:49 Objective C 2, that is. 14:25:10 udzinari` [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 14:25:18 -!- Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:25:19 Sergio`_ [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 14:25:36 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-20-82-64-19-164.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:26:14 -!- udzinari` [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:27:59 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:28:32 Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 14:29:05 -!- Sergio`_ [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:30:04 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@42.176.250.195.sta.estpak.ee] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 14:31:02 -!- spiaggia [~user@armadillo.labri.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 259 seconds] 14:31:18 spiaggia [~user@armadillo.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 14:33:29 chht.. what are you up to? 14:35:39 Devon [~devon@c-98-216-157-52.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:35:49 chht? 14:36:33 -!- Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:37:08 the stereotypical tone one utters before saying something secretly 14:38:02 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-25-82-254-134-33.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:38:08 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:39:05 Hyperspec in the browser is ok but is there a decent infoized spec? 14:39:39 Devon: "texinfo hyperspec" should give you some leads. 14:40:53 by "decent" I mean, it indexes all the functions described on the page, not merely the first one. 14:40:55 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:41:39 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 14:41:42 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:41:45 Davidbrcz [david@212-198-83-2.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 14:41:59 iPac [~bubble@p54AA4157.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:42:09 tcr: nothing yet, just trying to get my head around OS X and whether I can/should mix up lisp in some getting-to-know-you hack 14:43:14 how comes you have a mac now? 14:43:22 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@42.176.250.195.sta.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 14:43:23 because my thinkpad broke :( 14:43:30 Devon: i use emacs-w3m to view CLHS 14:43:52 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@42.176.250.195.sta.estpak.ee] has quit [Client Quit] 14:43:56 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-135-10.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire.] 14:44:11 hefner: and you bought... a mac? Wait, wasn't it you who stood up first when it was time to comment snarkily on it? 14:44:15 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:44:21 pemryan [~pem@2001:cc0:201e:107:221:86ff:fe1a:e5aa] has joined #lisp 14:44:43 ask him about its wifi 14:45:00 Maybe you can now comment snarkily -and- annoyed, like with mcclim 14:45:02 haha, please don't. 14:45:21 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:46:49 what's the worst that could happen? I give up and spend the day hiding in a fullscreened Linux inside parallels? 14:47:03 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:47:21 no, the worst is that you could lose your soul, hefner, your soul 14:47:41 Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 14:47:57 Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 14:48:09 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:49:20 Zhivago [~zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 14:49:58 -!- fe[nl]ix [~fenl]ix@aldebaran.cddr.org] has quit [Changing host] 14:49:58 fe[nl]ix [~fenl]ix@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 14:51:31 -!- fe[nl]ix [~fenl]ix@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 14:51:37 -!- vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:51:39 PantsMeh` [~PantsMeh_@66.192.95.35] has joined #lisp 14:51:43 so long as I get a fair price for it. 14:52:01 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 14:52:05 that's the spirit 14:54:32 also, welcome to the cult, hefner 14:55:18 I'm late to the party, as usual. These are the early days of macintosh backlash, aren't they? 14:55:35 vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has joined #lisp 14:55:43 "Okay, I have a Mac G5... How can I run System 6.0.7 on it?" 14:56:11 you know, Apple is evil, they're neglecting the Mac to make phones and feminine hygiene products, and all that. 14:57:13 hm. a bit of usocket/sb-bsd-socket support: I'm trying to send some output down the socket-stream (apparently, a fully-buffered sb-bsd-sockets stream). however, no amount of (terpri) and ~% and finish-output can make anything appear on the other end, or in a tcpdump 14:57:15 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:57:15 phones, sheesh 14:57:17 I'm sure I'm missing something. 14:57:39 sepeth [~user@78.180.90.104] has joined #lisp 14:57:52 antifuchs: Talking to the wrong port? 14:58:02 felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has joined #lisp 14:58:23 don't think so; it's the only open port around, and I can see, on the lisp side, the input from the client. 14:58:39 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-150.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 14:59:06 wrong stream? 14:59:18 antifuchs: what does tcpdump intercept on the server side ? 14:59:52 I'm running on localhost:42428, and dumping on lo0 gives me only the input from the client. 15:00:24 Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.233] has joined #lisp 15:02:44 -!- synthase [~synthase@adsl-220-175-182.mob.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:02:47 ah. heh. it appears st-json is doing strange things to the socket. 15:02:51 -!- vu3rdd`` [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:02:57 never mind, using read-line works. 15:03:26 -!- jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit [Quit: Boot me gently] 15:05:08 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 15:05:34 strange; it seems like its skip-whitespace method is doing something bad. should peek-char work on socket streams? 15:06:51 stassats: the problem with emacs-w3m is that it doesn't search across pages. 15:07:41 that's a good point 15:08:04 antifuchs: I can't see why not 15:08:06 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:08:27 -!- ASau` [~user@77.246.230.100] has quit [Quit: off] 15:08:32 I used grep on my locally installed hyperspec a few times in past, and it's tedious and because the lines tend to be longish not that effective 15:08:34 fe[nl]ix: yeah, me neither. ah well, I'll just use read-line; the protocol says it is the unit terminator anyway (: 15:09:17 test case to LP? 15:10:08 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-2-151-37.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:11:21 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:11:57 NNshag [user@lns-bzn-54-82-251-76-53.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:14:02 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:14:14 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-25-82-254-134-33.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:15:11 tcr: In addition, grep works on octets, which is not that helpful if you are in a Unicode (UTF-8) environment :( 15:15:17 smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:15:33 beach: why isn't it helpful? 15:16:07 -!- Lars`` [vonli@lynx.stud.ntnu.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:16:40 pkhuong: Because, if I have a Vietnamese word, but I don't know the middle letter, I can't use grep with unless I know how many octets are used to encode that letter. 15:16:41 If *everything* is utf-8, it should be fine by now. 15:16:52 *Xach* ponders applying his search tricks to the hyperspec 15:17:02 beach: are you sure it's not a number of *codepoints* issue? 15:17:57 pkhuong: No. If I do grep "g.p" x.text, the . doesn't stand for a character, but for an octet. 15:18:20 beach: I'm sure this is expressible with proper regex... ouch 15:18:33 OR, you first recode too viscii 15:18:35 I am sure it is. 15:18:48 (and back again) 15:19:00 Fare: That's pretty much *precisely* what I meant by grep no longer being effective. 15:19:04 beach: mm... ISTR some way to make it recognize utf-8 codepoints. 15:19:22 Wondering whether to debug the broken gcl.info index or try dpans2texi-1.05 and fix the MacOS font bugs 15:19:36 pkhuong: I just think we need a new family of tools that don't assume that a character is a single octet. 15:19:48 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:19:54 beach: perhaps perl suffers from the same problem, but I actually use ack which is written in perl and has some nifty features over grep 15:19:55 you can use $utf8_char_regex instead of . 15:20:00 beach: there's always a fair bunch of tools that work with utf-8. 15:20:14 *already 15:20:16 beach: it's a one-file perl script easily tryable 15:20:55 tcr: I might try that some day. Also, I suspect Emacs regex search doesn't have that problem. 15:20:57 beach: grep è.à matches the line «èòà» here 15:21:08 LOL, sacriledge! Just for that, I'll make a one-file emacs -batch script that does the same. 15:21:20 beach: and each of those code points takes two octets 15:21:37 fe[nl]ix: And you are sure this is UTF-8 as opposed to latin-1? 15:21:56 it's UTF-8 15:21:58 fe[nl]ix: 'cause I have tried this in the past, and I know it fails for Vietnamese. 15:22:06 beach: are you sure ? 15:22:11 quite! 15:22:38 I can't guarantee that it was on the very latest Ubuntu version, but ... 15:22:54 -!- phadthai_ is now known as phadthai 15:23:13 bad locale settings sound more likely 15:23:24 -!- Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:23:27 beach: s.c matches «sc» 15:23:27 Ah, that might be possible. 15:23:54 fe[nl]ix: Oh, what a gret surprise! I'll look into locale problems next time. 15:23:55 beach: I have en_US.UTF-8 15:24:03 I'm pretty sure Perl has pretty good Unicode support because Larry Wall's church got involved in missionary work (or something) in China. 15:24:14 Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 15:24:21 beach: are you using short or long utf8 normalization for vn? 15:24:39 in one case you have one codepoint per char, in the other, several 15:24:48 One code point per char. 15:25:07 If you're using the long form then you need to match glyphs, not char... harder 15:25:20 Sure. 15:25:30 I wouldn't even dream of trying that. 15:25:49 fe[nl]ix, you write vi now? 15:26:05 But I am convinced. Next time I have a problem, I'll check various sources of the problem. 15:26:19 Fare: fe[nl]ix is a true citizen of the world. 15:26:58 "The problem with being a citizen of the world is that you don't get to travelling abroad much." 15:27:06 hahaha 15:27:20 Fare: That's great! 15:27:44 -!- iPac [~bubble@p54AA4157.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 15:27:53 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:28:19 Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 15:28:28 -!- Samuel9999 [tt@unaffiliated/samuel9999] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:28:36 Interestingly, there are a few situations where France is the top country such as "the country that receives the most tourists per year" or "the country that exports the most food per year", and it uccurred to me, that it is intimitely related to the size. 15:28:41 (on the other hand, buying local has never been easier) 15:29:13 I mean, if you country is very small, it can't export very much because it doesn't produce very much, and it it is too large, everything will be sold domestically. 15:29:37 interesting 15:29:39 An analogous reason is valid for the tourists. 15:29:41 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:30:03 So, there must be som optimal size in order to maximize those figures, and I bet France is it. 15:30:14 excellent! 15:30:23 The US and China are too big, and Luxemburg too small. 15:30:24 cocorico 15:30:39 I wouldn't sink that low. 15:30:45 marioxcc [~user@200.92.162.144] has joined #lisp 15:31:35 Fare: It's the other way around. I was wondering whether the French have any reason to be proud of those numbers, or if it is purely a question of optimal size. 15:34:12 I am convinced the problem is simple if you assume the same productivity of every person in the world, a fair exchange rate, and the same buying power everywhere. As we know, this is not the case. 15:35:49 what's the value in maximizing those figures? 15:36:19 kwinz3 [~kwinz@213162066158.public.t-mobile.at] has joined #lisp 15:36:28 beach, any reason to be proud will be used, even bad 15:37:06 netytan [~netytan@85.211.63.239] has joined #lisp 15:37:07 hefner: It's just an intellectual exercise that would allow me to say to a French person bringing up one of those facts at a coctail party to answer that it's purely a function of the size of the population, and thereby score points with the women... or not! 15:37:26 btw, MY soccer team is better than YOURS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN1WN0YMWZU 15:37:42 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@ip68-108-251-45.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:38:34 tantan25 [tt@unaffiliated/samuel9999] has joined #lisp 15:40:15 I won't tell Mrs beach. 15:40:50 beach: may I quote you on the french #1 explanation? 15:40:58 Fare: Fine, but if I say it here, and it will be in the logs, it's that I would have already made sure she wouldn't mind. 15:41:15 Fare: Which one is that? 15:41:33 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-qmfenbeaxiibffgl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:41:55 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:42:25 [I'm not so good with counting] 15:42:42 beach: it's considerably more complicated than that. for one, both US and EU agricultural subsidies have a real effect on their ability to export. 15:42:53 -!- codeassembly [~givan@188.25.58.141] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:42:57 Interestingly, there are a few situations where France is the top country such as "the country that receives the most tourists per year" or "the country that exports the most food per year", and it occurred to me, that it is intimitely related to the size. I mean, if your country is very small, it can't export very much because it doesn't produce very much, and it it is too large, everything will be sold domestically. An analogous reason is 15:42:58 valid for the tourists. So, there must be some optimal size in order to maximize those figures, and I bet France is it. 15:43:11 Adamant: Yes, that's why I haven't attempted the exercise. 15:43:22 Fare, Adamant, beach: this is off-topic 15:43:27 of course, this always applies to the 'rah-rah US' stuff, and we tend to be bad about it as well 15:43:28 yes 15:43:31 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 15:43:34 will quit. 15:43:51 Fare: Sure quote me. 15:43:53 the lisp community exports the most hackers! 15:43:58 fe[nl]ix: sorry! 15:44:01 heh 15:44:10 uh, no, it doesn't -- too small. 15:44:26 there I go, making it on-topic 15:44:43 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:44:46 mik8y [~user@122.47.115.98] has joined #lisp 15:45:15 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@213162066158.public.t-mobile.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:45:50 Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 15:45:51 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-129-91.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:54 Uh, oh, I'm afraid my wife is right in that I am weird in that I can't help myself thinking of those things when I hear a "fact" like that. It drives her (and others) crazy. 15:48:31 Fare: Brilliant! 15:49:18 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:49:48 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 15:50:44 Fare: I just had 2 hours of vietnamese class, preceded by many hours, today and yesterday, of preparation. It's exhausting, but my teacher says I am doing well. I don't think progress is fast enough. Though I just wrote a personal input method for Emacs to make typing Vietnamese less painful (did you see how I made that on-topic?). 15:50:48 wbraun [~wolfgang@p5B202106.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:51:25 *hefner* sends beach to #emacs 15:51:33 Aww! 15:52:10 ... and I contemplated implementing input methods for Climacs, which is written in Common Lisp. :) 15:53:29 that's the spirit! 15:53:56 drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 15:53:58 Thanks hefner 15:54:05 -!- Dodek [dodek@wikipedia/Dodek] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:54:29 (And I mean that sincerely, despite the fact that you are now a Mac user). 15:56:02 bah, Linux is overrun by tourists. 15:56:19 -!- varjag is now known as varjagg 15:56:51 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:57:23 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 15:58:58 chupish [~182ed347@gateway/web/freenode/x-kaithkoqgsyakjmk] has joined #lisp 15:59:01 is it better than viqr? 15:59:28 do you know the "telex" method? maybe you can contribute it to emacs 16:00:20 Fare: I found that VIQR was painful, because it uses characters that are hard to access (~, ^, +), so I use letters like `f' and 'j' and also `;' which are much faster to type. 16:00:34 Fare: I know about the telex method. 16:00:43 -!- schoppenhauer [~senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:00:56 dialtone [~dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:00:56 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:00:56 dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 16:01:38 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 16:01:42 It won't fit the taste of everyone, but I am already faster and more accurate, despite the fact that I only created it this morning. 16:03:09 tcr: hi 16:03:46 leo2007: So you don't say hi to just anybody? 16:04:11 yeah, seriously, we're all sitting here. :D 16:04:33 *JuanDaugherty* snubs leo2007. 16:05:09 don't take it personally but you suck :-) 16:05:34 schoppenhauer [~senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 16:05:37 seriously, I think it's about a slime patch 16:05:39 tcr: Easy for you to say. 16:05:40 plural "you", eh? 16:06:14 -!- andreer [andreer@flode.pvv.ntnu.no] has left #lisp 16:06:22 -!- PuffTheMagic [~quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:06:35 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:08:32 does anyone use ISLISP? 16:08:37 xan_ [~xan@89.181.24.56] has joined #lisp 16:08:42 chupish: Nah! 16:08:53 that's what I thought :) 16:09:16 So I a bunch of threads emitting logging output, ans the logging output contains the internal real time, and the internal run time... and I quite cannot understand why the displayed run time sometimes jump... like one entry says real1, run1 which comes before an entry real2, run2 -- and real1 < real2, but run1 > run2 16:09:21 +have 16:10:35 get-internal-run-time is implemented on top of getrusage called with rusage_self which means per-process timings 16:11:25 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:11:31 I'd guess there's only loose synchronization of the values between threads. 16:12:13 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 16:13:01 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-11-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:13:36 Aren't those timings maintained in the kernel? I'm asking for per-process values so it's the kernel who knows how long it gave a cpu to a process? 16:13:40 Crowbar8 [~ajazz@pool-95-83-74-197.ptcomm.ru] has joined #lisp 16:14:59 Ugh. Utterly typical. The funcallable_instance_tramp is found by heap verification, and isn't in a known space. :-/ 16:15:46 -!- sepeth [~user@78.180.90.104] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:16:53 -!- udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-etprcuwxinqtajok] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:17:14 sepeth [~user@78.180.90.104] has joined #lisp 16:18:37 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:19:08 Hey guys, is there some way to have the REPL only allow certain functions? (I'd like to communicate with a lisp process using the repl, but only with "safe" functions) 16:19:54 ... Sandboxing, again? Isn't this a -FAQ- by now? (Do we even have a FAQ page?) 16:20:08 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:20:31 Joreji: Hard problem! 16:20:34 nyef: Sorry I did not find anything. Though I didn't search for "sandboxing" either 16:21:17 Joreji: what is a 'safe' function? 16:21:32 drewc: A function which I specified as being "safe" 16:21:47 Joreji: is READ safe? 16:22:02 No 16:22:11 what is the R in REPL ? 16:22:25 Joreji: replace R in REPL with your own implementation? :) 16:22:39 p_l: is EVAL safe? 16:23:21 drewc: if you add an extra thing, S for SANITIZE, it will be safer, but not safe. 16:23:40 for safe stuff, you need OS-level support or specially prepared VM 16:23:50 and then you get down to physical safety 16:24:01 [08:53] 16:24:02 g++ accepts, edg accepts in relaxed mode, edg strict and clang reject, I'm sure it's wrong. [08:54] 16:24:02 Yes, that's ill-formed Clang will continue to reject it because we believe in fully 16:24:03 I always thought the code which I run inside the REPL is being READ, then EVAL'ed finally PRINT'ed. Now I want only code to be EVAL'ed which is safe. As such, the user cannot call READ himself, but the REPL can. 16:24:05 type-checking everything we can in the template definition 16:24:08 I don't disagree with that belief, it just means someone has some 16:24:08 fixing to do for spirit. Hopefully just some reordering of 16:24:11 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.133.91] has joined #lisp 16:24:13 includes and classes will fix it. [08:55] 16:24:17 ERC> 16:24:20 oops, sorry 16:25:00 when you reach the level of pondering about using EW to affect the system through radiation, then you're truly paranoid... 16:25:18 Joreji: Mind read-eval, that the reader can intern things in random packages, infinitely-recursive loops, and so on. 16:26:15 So what it boils down to: I'd have to write a custom REPL? 16:26:25 nyef: that's why I suggested special READ implementation as well... 16:26:34 p_l: Fair enough. 16:26:34 I think beach had something interesting for that? 16:26:39 italic [~italic@cpe-69-207-6-88.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:26:47 Joreji: lisp is not safe, that's what it boils down to 16:26:56 semyon421 [~semyon@109.188.44.46] has joined #lisp 16:27:03 Joreji: if you want to provide something safe, it had better not be CL. 16:27:27 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:27:29 nyef: read that wouldn't allow read eval and similar, and sanitization that would ensure that only certain functions can be called... 16:27:35 drewc: Yes I know. Which is why I came here :) 16:27:45 p_l: do you allow using symbols? 16:28:01 p_l: INTERN is a denial of service attack ;) 16:28:08 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 16:28:17 Okay, running the test suite on PPC with heap verification enabled, and only about three tests disabled. 16:28:28 once upon a time, someone came here with a cool CLISP-based bot that was sandboxed using syscall wrappers well enough that #lisp wasn't able to exploit it. Don't know what happened to that. 16:28:48 *nyef* wonders how long the tests will run before crashing... if they crash. 16:29:06 tcr: i just want to make sure you receive it ;) 16:29:32 lichtblau: We probably asked them to put it elsewhere because it adversely affected our signal-to-noise ratio. 16:29:53 drewc: intern probably wouldn't be allowed, at least not in its normal form 16:30:07 Joreji: I'll answer what RMS answered when I told him that elisp was an aberration and that he should implement a general Lisp compiler first, and then write Emacs in it", namely "Sounds good! Let me know when you have implemented it!". 16:30:45 p_l: so, you have a new reader that uses its own custom symbol type? and a new evaluator too, of course... 16:30:47 beach: Will do :) 16:30:57 kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-52.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 16:31:11 drewc: more like limited subset of CL and certain functions being remapped to different ones. 16:31:42 -!- schoppenhauer [~senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:31:49 p_l: i fail to see how it's a subset of CL if symbols are not interned 16:32:03 drewc: separate namespace? 16:32:14 lichtblau: A few days ago I actually wanted to blog for a request like that, but not an eval bot which is lame. But I'd like to have an online test-multiple-implementation-at-once (sandboxed, webbed version of pjb's clall script) service 16:33:06 p_l: huh? how does that help? 16:33:36 leo2007: Yeah, but I'm not sure we should perhaps move to the *slime-foo* scheme, so we can use slime-buffer-name on more occasions like events, scratch buffer 16:34:01 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:34:08 drewc: the symbol namespaces inside sandbox not being the same (in EQ sense) to "parent" Lisp. 16:34:43 p_l: how does that matter? 16:35:32 tcr: that's fine. let me know your final decision. 16:35:52 drewc: it wouldn't allow you to get access to parent lisp's symbols, so while you could intern, the symbol would exist only in the sandbox, with code transformed to use said namespaces. Of course, there are possible vectors of attack in that as well. 16:36:07 If I really wanted a "safe" Lisp, I'd go from OS level up. 16:36:27 p_l: if the symbol exists in the sandbox, the user has created it. 16:36:33 that's the f'ing point 16:36:55 drewc: yes, but if it doesn't interact with the symbols outside the sandbox at all? 16:37:34 sigh. 16:37:44 i.e., #'intern != #'sandbox:intern ? 16:38:19 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757137.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:38:22 drewc: of course, I might be missing something (and I actually wouldn't use such system, too much work for too little return). 16:38:42 -!- dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:38:59 beach: I was thinking about this earlier, and I'm not sure there's a CL implementation well suited to writing an editor in. 16:40:10 p_l: you want a 'sandboxed cl', and cl semantics simply make that impossible. This is the point. 16:40:38 -!- Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:40:46 Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 16:41:15 drewc: unless you implement a CL inside CL and limit the internal one's ability to interact with it's environment. 16:42:01 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 16:42:10 -!- nunb [~nundan@59.178.199.245] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:42:14 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:42:17 hello 16:42:31 ok, by the logic that 'OUT OF MEMORY' is a conforming CL implementation, i suppose you're correct. 16:42:47 nunb [~nundan@59.178.211.20] has joined #lisp 16:43:26 of course, the effect quite wouldn't be fully conforming CL implementation, but then, the spec doesn't specify sandboxing and I assume someone who wanted sandboxing would know not to expect it at that level 16:43:53 p_l: it is not going to be anywhere near cl, that's the point i'm trying to make 16:45:06 dialtone [~dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:45:06 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:45:06 dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 16:45:10 well, I'm not that eager to check, really. I prefer sandboxing on OS level :) 16:45:24 i prefer to sandbox the OS 16:45:33 -!- nurv [nurv@62.32.135.123] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:46:09 that too 16:46:12 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 16:46:12 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 16:46:24 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 16:46:34 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 16:46:34 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Client Quit] 16:46:35 p_l: you can have a sandbox'd CL: start your OS of choice in a VM, keep a pool of CL processes, use one process for each request then kill it 16:46:40 nurv|afk [nurv@62.32.135.123] has joined #lisp 16:46:49 fe[nl]ix: exactly :) 16:47:00 drewc: :) 16:47:17 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 16:47:24 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 16:47:27 p_l: and you can use your regular OS-level tools to limit the resources of each process 16:47:31 fe[nl]ix: well, I can as well do it with fork() and issuing apriopriate sandboxing call after fork :) 16:47:41 -!- nurv|afk is now known as nurv 16:47:47 *p_l* has a "slightly" extended security model in his linux kernel 16:48:33 cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 16:48:40 if Google finishes and merges their seccomp extension, I'd probably have ACLs on nearly everything including syscalls ;-) 16:48:45 p_l: at some point the overhead to check if things are 'safe' becomes an issue. 16:49:23 drewc: that's why I use a project that was designed with IMHO healthy balance regarding that. It's not like I'm running some super-duper security 16:49:45 *drewc* just runs Xen everywhere 16:50:09 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:50:39 the problem with having detailed ACLs on everything is that the interaction between them is completely non-obvious to most everyone 16:50:41 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 16:51:13 So it's very easy to go from super-duper-secure to not-at-all-secure with a tiny little innocent-looking change. 16:51:20 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:51:40 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 16:51:58 -!- licoress_ [~user@cm-84.209.103.64.getinternet.no] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:51:58 -!- licoresse [~user@cm-84.209.103.64.getinternet.no] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:52:34 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-078-042-205-245.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 16:52:36 foom: especially with certain systems having those ACLs in really confusing form (SELinux comes to mind...) 16:53:21 -!- netytan [~netytan@85.211.63.239] has quit [Quit: netytan] 16:53:24 TOMOYO is quite easy to use without sacrificing too much in terms of security and it's enough for my purposes 16:53:38 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:54:06 Ivan Krsti (from OLPC Bitfrost) is at Apple... expect something interesting on Apple platforms 16:54:18 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:54:24 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 16:55:14 hopefully involving the realization that all this absurd password prompting doesn't address any credible threat to the user 16:55:15 *p_l* haven't got much experience with Bitfrost except for hearing the name 16:55:31 hefner: which absurd password prompting? 16:55:37 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 16:55:59 foom: the "Please enter the administrator password to proceed" variety 16:55:59 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-11-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:56:09 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 16:56:28 -!- cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 16:57:16 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:57:18 -!- Joreji [~thomas@74-036.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:57:30 Dodek [dodek@wikipedia/Dodek] has joined #lisp 16:57:47 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 16:58:01 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 16:58:11 Ah, the "security is simon says" model? 16:58:26 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:58:26 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:58:40 Wha...? No transport function? 16:58:57 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 16:59:43 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:59:48 Ugh. And a drop to ldb but no ability to actually -interact- with it beyond C-c. :-/ 17:00:08 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:00:09 Still, the heap verifier didn't catch it, which is a little odd. 17:00:15 -!- chupish [~182ed347@gateway/web/freenode/x-kaithkoqgsyakjmk] has quit [] 17:00:22 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 17:00:25 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:02:34 lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 17:04:00 -!- loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:04:38 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-52.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:05:45 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-078-042-205-245.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:06:21 amaron_ [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 17:08:41 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has 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17:44:15 cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 17:45:29 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.82.160] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:46:14 -!- Edward__ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-24-129.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:47:16 -!- freaktab [~chatzilla@dslb-088-075-198-215.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 17:47:46 -!- hlavaty [~user@77-22-100-58-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:49:16 maxigas [~user@host86-186-250-225.range86-186.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 17:49:31 5112c107, widetag 71... nothing... 511298c7, widetag 6d... nothing... nothing... nothing... 511298c7, widetag 6d. 17:49:51 And it's in a -random- test case. 17:50:52 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 17:50:56 nothing... 511298c7, widetag 6d again. 17:51:00 -!- boyscared [~bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:51:04 wow. it seems cisco is out to take LISP name... 17:51:08 -!- mik8y [~user@122.47.115.98] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:51:09 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0090-205-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 17:51:50 I am trying to set up trivial-backtrace on Ubuntu with sbcl but it says "component not found" when I do (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :trivial-backtrace) 17:52:17 Google is not being good to me.. anyone know if CL runs on android? 17:52:25 schme: look at planet lisp :) 17:52:29 *Fare* squashes one xcvb bug. 17:52:52 maxigas: Is the directory where you installed trival-backtrace somewhere in your asdf central registry, or the trivial-backtrace asd file symlinked from somewhere on your central registry? 17:52:54 Good evening! 17:52:58 Hello beach. 17:53:38 pkhuong: I did a word search for android on the front page of planet lisp and I find nothing.. older news? 17:54:26 boyscared [~bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:54:58 maxigas: Are you using clbuild? 17:54:59 I thought I'd seen something about ABCL on android. Might be the N900 post. 17:55:03 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0090-205-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has left #lisp 17:55:10 schme: google site:planet.lisp.org, maybe? 17:55:28 -!- xan_ [~xan@89.180.183.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:55:31 nyef: that actually works?! holy smokes 17:55:48 android, boo. as a lisper, you're supposed to feel endangered by anything new. 17:55:56 You've never done per-site limiting of google searches before? 17:56:14 hefner: I dunno. it looks kinda nice and the salesgirl was very convincing. 17:56:21 *nyef* feels endangered by gencgc on ppc, does that count as something new? 17:56:48 nyef: I seem to remember maybe doing it.. back in the pre-google era on altavista. Did not know google supported this 17:56:58 Iget nothing anyway :) 17:57:05 (Or does it count as something borrowed, given that ppc always used to run on cheneygc and gencgc was x86oid-only?) 17:57:13 PuffTheMagic [~quassel@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 17:57:25 xan_ [~xan@89-180-183-47.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 17:57:32 schme: yeah. I must be misremembering the N900 post. 17:57:38 ECL on iphone works fwiw ;) 17:57:52 But I didn't order an iphone :( 17:58:07 (And anything working on the iPhone isn't worth much these days.) 17:59:20 all right. initial baby steps towards a cucumber adapter in CL. (-: 18:00:00 andreer [andreer@flode.pvv.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 18:00:21 nyef: heh. At least there's some possibility of running ABCL on Android :D 18:01:02 *nyef* breaks down and installs gdb. 18:01:04 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:01:10 (that, /plus/ a blog entry. Hope this will keep Xach the Pruner away) (: 18:01:35 -!- boyscared [~bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:03:51 pkhuong: too bad using ECL is now against the new iPhone developer agreement 18:04:06 What's the magic to get a lisp backtrace from gdb? 18:04:15 oh ff. android programming looks like all java 18:04:37 proqesi [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 18:04:41 nyef: backfrace_from_fp(fp, nframes)? 18:04:57 *backtrace 18:05:09 schme: for the most part, yeah 18:05:11 Ah, right. And now I just need to get a usable fp value... 18:05:34 felideon: on the bright side, it means you (or me, at least) are spared the expense and time spent buying/developing for the iPad (and/or iPhone) 18:05:48 schme: I think it's not even exactly standard j2me, but I'm not sure about that 18:06:02 rahul: What is the part tat is not "the most part" ? 18:06:04 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:06:49 http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/06/android-goes-beyond-java-gains-native-cc-dev-kit.ars 18:06:55 schme: I believe there are ways around it 18:06:56 boyscared [~bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:07:17 schme: you're probably best off asking Brian Gupta about it. he's been hacking androids since the beta stage 18:07:56 hefner: or it might mean more expense/time for someone who needs to keep support iPhone/iPad, due to now having to learn Obj-C and the SDK 18:07:58 :) 18:08:25 schme: it's not the JVM, it's its own VM called Dalvnik or something 18:08:29 Oh, for the love of... Does ppc d-x allocation happen on the control stack? 18:08:46 Dalvik, to be precise 18:08:59 (Does ppc -do- d-x allocation?) 18:09:01 mishoo [~mishoo@host254-107-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:09:30 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 18:09:31 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 18:09:52 nyef: some. 18:09:56 ... CSP-tn. AARRGGHH!! 18:09:59 beach: thanks, i solved it somehow. 18:10:03 and yeah, control stack, I think. 18:10:06 I think I found that GC fault. 18:10:07 nyef: thanks, i solved ti somehow. :) 18:10:10 can't happen on the number stack. 18:10:17 -!- maxigas [~user@host86-186-250-225.range86-186.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:10:35 well, Android allows ECL to run, it just won't integrate properly into install system in a fast way... hmm... 18:10:50 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:11:09 *p_l* found instructions how to run completely-native apps 18:11:27 my current thinking is that ECL isn't really what you want for for embedding into applications (as opposed to writing 95% of the app in CL and letting ECL build the executable, which has worked well for me so far). 18:11:57 hefner: for embedding, you probably want Lua ;) 18:12:15 yeah, or stackless python. 18:12:15 -!- drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:12:27 psyco 18:12:28 hefner: that's my approach to it, and even one of the original presentations on embedding ECL was kind-of geared towards rewriting XEmacs in CL :D 18:13:06 (basically allowing to gradually replace C & elisp code with CL) 18:13:32 a bit heavy, but a good idea to compile for explicit type cases. Just not ALL the time 18:13:44 rahul, felideon : cools. thanks for the OT support 18:13:45 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:15:16 it's not OT if you get a lisp running on it :D 18:15:47 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 18:16:26 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:16:34 schme: also, Android programming right now is "whatever compiles into pure java bytecode and doesn't use runtime generation of bytecode" 18:16:37 schme: no problem. also, lest I get lynched, saw that there is an experimental clojure fork for Android/Dalvik 18:16:39 plus native libs 18:17:00 p_l: I see. 18:17:10 felideon: Clojure works on Dalvik since release of first android phones, iirc. 18:17:29 or whenever -aot option to compiler was added 18:17:36 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:17:38 fatblueduck [~duck@pool-71-104-235-97.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:17:43 If there are any Italians around, allow me to post a non-lisp (it-related though question): i'll be visiting the country and will need to get a prepaid card for my 3G modem with a data plan. What would you suggest I get? 18:17:57 (paren-fail) 18:18:29 Sometime soon I get to replace SDL with mac-specific code in my ECL app and figure out how to build the result. Right now I'm in Xcode-generated purgatory. 18:18:44 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 18:18:56 faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 18:19:34 daniel___ [~daniel@p5082F7A9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:20:09 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 18:21:17 p_l: hmm, I'm not so sure. Dalvik bytecode is different than JVM bytecode apparently. http://groups.google.com/group/clojure/msg/c41b9550621793f9 18:21:20 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 18:21:21 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Client Quit] 18:22:35 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082E944.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:22:35 felideon: that's why I mentioned that it can't use runtime generation - the binary translator from JVM to Dalvik understands JVM just fine :) 18:22:52 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 18:23:02 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 18:23:03 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Client Quit] 18:23:40 it's just that any runtime generation can't run on Dalvik, at least not using JVM interfaces and bytecode (I heard something about runtime generation of Dalvik bytecode being added to future version of Android) 18:25:35 *lichtblau* wonders why Sun didn't sue Google for that like it did Microsoft 18:26:12 lichtblau: happened much later nad they didn't have a long-running feud? 18:26:13 maybe Oracle will 18:27:43 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 18:27:44 -!- xan_ [~xan@89-180-183-47.net.novis.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:27:46 p_l: gotcha, I see what you mean. 18:28:28 as long as Google doesn't use the Java trademark for that, does Oracle have a tooth? 18:28:50 p_l: hadn't noticed your previous statement to schme :) 18:28:55 Fare: I don't think so, but Oracle already managed to prove they are dicking around with their newest purchase 18:29:34 -!- hicx174 [~hicx174@211.187.100.115] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:29:41 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:29:45 support package licensing is a big example... 18:29:55 hicx174 [~hicx174@211.187.100.115] has joined #lisp 18:30:04 antoszka: I've had good results with a tre mobile 3G, depends on what region you're visiting 18:30:34 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 18:30:56 nunb: I'll be staying in some rented villa near Orvieto. 18:31:10 nunb: And probably travelling a little around. 18:31:57 antoszka: Non lo so but I think you need to provide passport and address info these days to get a SIM 18:32:01 the only issue with coding in CL for android is the amount of C++... 18:32:19 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 18:32:20 nunb: What would be the Italian name for those cards (assuming I'll stumble upon a non-english-speaking shopkeeper)? 18:32:38 Devon: That shouldn't be a problem (sound very Belarussian though). 18:33:35 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 18:34:26 -!- semyon421 [~semyon@109.188.44.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:40:16 benny` [~benny@i577A1E76.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:40:26 -!- benny [~benny@i577A23DA.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:40:59 antoszka: rumor is 3 (http://www.tre.it) wins in EU but TIM is better in IT and have same SIMs as T-Mobile, unlike 3 18:41:32 Devon: meaning TIM is part of T-Mobile? 18:41:38 -!- WOG [~OsamaBinW@66-168-47-22.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:41:49 Devon: Thx. 18:42:03 no, meaning techno compatible 18:42:17 luis: heh, oracle suing google would be fun. "old database company sues new database company" (: 18:42:18 Devon: there's common standard for SIM cards 18:42:39 apparently 3 uses non standard SIM tech 18:42:54 oops, I mean TIM 18:42:58 Devon: possible that some phones might do that, but I doubt it 18:43:21 UMTS phones include new APIs for sim cards etc. 18:43:24 does ECL run on android? ABCL? 18:44:14 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 18:44:36 Fare: ECL and possibly clisp can run on rooted Android and with specially prepared launchers, but you'd need to write wrappers for some libs and be wary of libc differences from glibc or uclibc 18:45:51 unfamiliar with 3G vs. 2G lossage 18:46:36 Devon: the physical interface and basic ABI is the same for all modern sim cards (which means practically anything in over a decade) 18:47:03 at least for GSM/UMTS networks 18:47:10 can't say about CDMA 18:48:50 pilot1123 [~lolermajs@unaffiliated/pilot1123] has joined #lisp 18:49:12 -!- rdd [~user@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:49:13 -!- fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has quit [Quit: Disconnecting from stoned server.] 18:49:14 Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 18:49:24 -!- pilot1123 [~lolermajs@unaffiliated/pilot1123] has left #lisp 18:49:27 fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 18:49:38 enthymeme [~kraken@130.166.209.12] has joined #lisp 18:49:49 -!- nurv [nurv@62.32.135.123] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:51:28 -!- benny` is now known as benny 18:51:45 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-078-042-205-245.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 18:52:26 -!- Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:52:36 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:53:32 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 18:55:21 entropax [~entropi@nat/intel/x-gwdexcbpvzokafet] has joined #lisp 18:55:28 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:56:25 kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-52.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 18:56:53 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.211] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:57:35 antifuchs: wtf do you use cucumber for? 18:57:37 pickles [~paul@d47-69-2-54.col.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 18:58:23 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:47 Goes well in salad, I'd imagine. 18:59:01 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-52.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:59:05 kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-52.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 18:59:42 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 18:59:42 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:01:02 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:01:17 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 19:02:56 Hrm. "twnei r6, 0"... 19:03:31 that brings back memories 19:03:44 Memories of tracking down GC problems on PPC? 19:03:56 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:04:07 memories of people typing or pasting assembler into #lisp and pondering 19:04:15 Heh. 19:04:15 prxq [~mommer@g227066025.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:04:27 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:05:23 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-52.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:06:36 hi 19:06:39 plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-82-194.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 19:08:25 twnei: tweak word a nudge and enable interrupts? 19:09:29 Yes, that's exactly what it means... Or maybe it means "handle-pending-interrupts". 19:09:40 Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.211] has joined #lisp 19:10:17 (Okay, it's Trap if Word is Not Equal to Immediate, reg_NL3, immediate 0.) 19:10:47 So, another minor tweak to be entered into my current PPC tree. 19:16:41 anyone here used PivotalTracker? 19:19:13 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 19:19:52 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 19:21:20 HG` [~HG@xdslgl117.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:21:30 Makoryu [~vt920@ool-4a599a98.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:36 -!- Makoryu [~vt920@ool-4a599a98.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:21:40 tcr: I've been exposed in this rails project, and like it enough that I want all my tests to be written in it (: 19:21:44 Makoryu [~vt920@ool-4a599a98.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:51 or at least those of user-facing interfaces 19:22:12 Okay, so what happened was that somewhere or other the code made a foreign function call, or one was faked up and then torn down. 19:22:32 Then the control went back up a couple functions, and a new (lisp) call was made. Or two. 19:22:53 Back up -again-, then pending-interrupt-trap to run a GC. 19:23:22 And the runtime's idea of the current stack and frame pointers dates back to when that foreign call happened. 19:23:50 Thus, it scans past the real top of the stack in scavenge. 19:24:05 The obvious other failure mode is to not scan far enough in scavenge. 19:26:27 antifuchs: weird stuff this cucumber business. I thought it was a system definition file high on LSD. :) 19:26:29 If the full test suite survives and I can do ten runs of my current failure-provoker of choice (print.impure.lisp) without fault, I'm going to call it good. 19:26:41 prip: haha 19:26:49 (erm, prxq) 19:26:56 nyef: would the usage of canary that is modified by any returning Lisp function fix that completely? 19:27:13 prxq: almost! an interface definition file high on lsd ((-: 19:27:27 Heh. Actually, I thought cucumber was a BDD agent thing without the goal hierarchy thing. 19:27:31 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-153-248.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 19:27:37 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:28:06 p_l: You mean, to invalidate the notion of current control stack pointer? 19:28:18 antifuchs: frankly, I didn't fully get it. You write in plain text, and have an eliza-grade pattern matcher do the stuff? 19:28:46 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 19:28:52 prxq: it's regexes, and a special syntax for multi-line things, and org-table based string interpolation 19:28:52 nyef: meaning that if you scan the area and find an "invalid" canary, it would immediately wind back to "last good" and consider that one the correct end of stack 19:29:07 prxq: it lets you test a lot of code while you write very little (: 19:29:19 p_l: Why, when we can get the correct value straight off the most recent interrupt context? 19:29:21 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@222-154-178-1.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 19:29:50 nyef: well, you made it sound that it still scanned past it despite knowing the correct value :) 19:29:59 (it may not seem like it at first, but it really cuts down the boilerplate you have to type to test something 19:30:04 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:30:14 Sure thing, but eew 19:30:20 actually, not even test; you define how stuff is supposed to work, then make sure it does (: 19:30:20 antifuchs: how stable is it, in the sense of being tolerant to small mistakes? I am usually very wary of that kind of thing, because if it does something undesirable it tends to be hard to debug. No? 19:30:44 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:31:20 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 19:31:21 prxq: which kind of mistakes? (: 19:31:34 Do you use it to test web interfaces? 19:31:40 antifuchs: typos, logic errors. 19:31:43 p_l: The point is that the allocation trap handler wasn't -setting- the cached value from the context. 19:31:55 but maybe i really don't get what this is for. 19:32:03 tcr: you can use it for that, but it's useful for every kind of interface 19:32:23 How do you translate "Then the user clicks on the foo link" ? 19:32:28 prxq: let me flesh out the clucumber test suite in the next few days, and I'll give you an example 19:32:36 nyef: ah 19:33:06 tcr: you can use firewatir, or selenium, or celerity or htmlunit for that. there are a lot of headless web test things around (: 19:33:18 (many can even do javascript) 19:33:23 well how do they work? 19:33:46 watir/firewatir drives a browser through a scripting bridge, so isn't really headless 19:33:46 nyef: oh, so it had to look at the cached value because FP=NFP in foreign code? 19:34:09 antifuchs: what does headless mean? 19:34:14 htmlunit is a headless web browser with a javascript runtime written in java 19:34:22 prxq: no windows (: 19:34:27 *prxq* is confronted with a parallel universe 19:34:33 antifuchs: ah 19:34:35 or rather, can be run on the console 19:35:00 selenium isn't really headless either 19:35:02 the headless web tester. Yo. 19:35:06 *p_l* has considerable problems thinking of a way to do stack-overflow attack on MMIX 19:35:10 sykopomp: yeah. htmlunit is, though (: 19:35:19 never even heard of htmlunit 19:36:39 it's pretty sweet. and usable with celerity (an interface in a less-indecent language) (: 19:36:55 -!- cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 19:37:33 -!- fatblueduck [~duck@pool-71-104-235-97.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 19:37:36 fatblueduck [~duck@pool-71-104-235-97.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:38:36 eugu [~Miranda@212.1.246.237] has joined #lisp 19:39:30 nyef: now that we have gencgc, does it still make sense to have split control and number stacks? 19:39:35 pkhuong: Not sure what the stack discipline is. 19:39:53 Yes, split, because gencgc does a precise stack scavenge. 19:40:09 ah, only C on registers? 19:40:28 I'm... not sure, actually. 19:40:38 Thought we still had a partitioned register set? 19:40:39 Okay, same failure mode... 19:40:48 Or, at least, same failure -message-. 19:42:12 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-153-248.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:42:36 Hrm... Maybe that's not the failure mode... 19:48:23 I thought gencgc on ppc was actually not c 19:48:38 Krystof: don't we need the C bit for threads? 19:48:40 admittedly it is buggy, so maybe that should be "was not intended to be c" 19:49:03 well, we don't have threads on ppc 19:49:29 There's a lot of doing involved in making threads work on ppc. 19:49:40 *nyef* frowns at some of the single-threadedness he's found. 19:56:00 Guthur [~Michael@86.145.186.155] has joined #lisp 20:00:25 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.82.160] has joined #lisp 20:02:26 Okay, my analysis was flawed, something else has to have happened to make it go wrong. 20:02:32 *nyef* continues digging. 20:03:42 pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.124.96] has joined #lisp 20:04:43 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:05:42 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.211] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:08:15 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:15:16 cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 20:16:20 is there a method to insert into an already sorted list? 20:17:16 PissedNu1lock: you can't do anything smart on a linked list 20:17:21 -!- PissedNu1lock is now known as PissedNumlock 20:17:22 xinming_ [~hyy@125.109.250.91] has joined #lisp 20:17:28 k, thought so 20:17:36 (well, almost... if you have the list's cell in an array, there's a trick) 20:17:44 -!- xinming [~hyy@125.109.242.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:18:21 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757137.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:19:22 the idea is that you can then sample sqrt(n) cells from the list and find those that enclose the value you're looking for most tightly 20:19:37 You can then restrict the linear search on that range. 20:20:51 performance isn't an issue (we are making our own implementation of methods, just by using defun and defstruct) 20:21:10 so I just sort every time I add a new method to a generic-function 20:21:10 PissedNumlock: what for? 20:21:13 then why the list? 20:21:27 what? At least insert in the right spot in linear time 20:22:22 p_l: university assignment, course about metaprogramming/reflection/clos 20:22:52 pkhuong: that was actually my question, but Ill just do it with a loop 20:22:55 also, sort how? 20:23:17 I sort the methods in gf by precedence of the argumentslist 20:23:23 or method-specializers 20:23:23 unfortunately MERGE isn't yet smart about the constant single-element list case :-) 20:23:25 sounds list pcos 20:23:27 that's not a total order, is it? 20:24:36 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:24:42 pkhuong: I dont have multiple inheritance, so I think I can just sort them comparing argument by argument 20:24:53 Nope. 20:24:59 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 20:25:04 You don't have a total order 20:25:37 could you give an example? 20:25:42 perhaps I am missing something 20:25:52 (defclass a ()) (defclass b ()). 20:25:55 Is a < b? 20:27:38 right, silly me. Thinking for so long on 'specialized cases' and forgot the most basic examples 20:29:16 -!- Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:29:50 PissedNumlock: maybe a hashtable per each argument? 20:30:11 (with some extra cases for common situations) 20:30:12 p_l: there is an order, it's just not total. 20:30:39 pkhuong: well, yeah, it's just that I was thinking why use list for that 20:30:45 effiency is not a requirement, so I am going to sort when calling compute-applicable-methods given an argumentlist and a gf 20:30:50 ... and returning a list of methods in precedence order is probably a requirement. 20:30:59 no it isnt pkhuong 20:31:07 but it makes (call-next-method) etc a bit easier 20:31:29 a B-tree, then? 20:31:38 konr [~user@201.82.133.249] has joined #lisp 20:31:38 p_l: how? partial order. 20:32:23 PissedNumlock: fwiw, having to precompute the applicable methods ahead of time is one thing I dislike about the CLOS MOP. 20:32:40 Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:46 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 20:32:52 pkhuong: how come? 20:32:53 Makes it fairly impractical to code a dispatch tree. 20:32:53 ok, B-tree was a bad choice of name - what I was thinking about was a tree that differentiated on argument types/classes 20:33:04 p_l: so a trie? 20:33:12 pkhuong: that might be the correct name 20:33:22 *p_l* got a little lost for a while 20:33:45 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 20:34:38 *Fare* has a pure trie implementation in fare-utils 20:34:59 -!- pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.124.96] has left #lisp 20:35:16 sykopomp: the set of possible effective methods can be pretty much the power set of methods (think specialisation on independent classes and multiple inheritance). If only we could compute the list incrementally, it would be possible to resume the search tree. 20:35:17 it's specialized for natural integers as big-endian lists of bits 20:35:26 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:35:30 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@222-154-178-1.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:35:57 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-2-151-37.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:36:37 dammit, xcvb looks like it works when built with asdf, but not with itself. I must be doing something wrong. 20:36:44 *Fare* clears a few caches and retries 20:37:38 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:38:12 (with a clos failure I don't fathom) 20:38:18 Kickaha [~Adium@bl14-21-69.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 20:38:35 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 20:39:05 -!- Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:42:15 hi everyone, any slime hacker around, getting a error when calling slime-edit-function-definition on clozure cl... 20:44:20 spoofy [~nespoof@78.31.74.25] has joined #lisp 20:45:24 -!- billitch1 [~billitch@188.106.101.3] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:45:32 I don't see anything by that name, how about slime-edit-definition 20:45:54 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 20:47:17 well, i use the slime shortcut alt+. i guess it's probably slime-edit-function 20:47:43 i mean slime-edit-definition 20:48:13 i think it's a remnant of the hack to find lexical definitions. 20:49:05 Lars` [vonli@lynx.stud.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 20:49:08 greping around the source tree i see some references to slime-enclosing-form-specs having been removes 20:49:12 *removed* 20:49:20 and that's actually the error i'm getting 20:50:32 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-2-151-37.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:50:34 -!- italic [~italic@cpe-69-207-6-88.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:52:20 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:52:54 Works for me with slime-protocol-version "2010-04-12" 20:54:43 i'm on "2010-04-27" 20:55:06 guess i can just see what changed in between those two revisions 20:55:20 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:57 I suspect a SBCL CLOS issue. Sigh. Hard to tell what's wrong. 20:57:10 -!- andreer [andreer@flode.pvv.ntnu.no] has left #lisp 20:57:21 yes, i can imagine it's hard to maintain such a piece of software 20:57:34 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-135-10.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:57:38 or maybe I'm doing something non-portable that happens to work when using SBCL and ASDF. 20:57:56 Joreji [~thomas@74-036.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 20:59:34 -!- cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 20:59:45 Hmm, not sure if I asked this some time in the past...but anyone know of a good simple REST library for common lisp? I know there's not much to REST, but am hoping something simple exists. 21:01:35 nurv [nurv@83.231.19.240] has joined #lisp 21:01:38 TDT: client or server? 21:01:43 Hi. 21:01:52 For a client, drakma supports all 4 operations, I think. 21:02:08 pkhuong: client, and I'll check drakma, thanks. 21:02:23 synthase [~synthase@adsl-220-175-182.mob.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:59 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 21:03:45 and the answer was... :type in CLOS slots that get enforced or not depending on various options, that are set differently for ASDF and XCVB. Sigh. 21:04:25 Which reminds me... I should probably mainline the optimization re-setting that we use for ASDF at ITA. 21:04:41 Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.233] has joined #lisp 21:08:03 davazp [~user@83.57.37.58] has joined #lisp 21:08:27 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:09:26 htk__ [~htk_@188.3.228.226] has joined #lisp 21:09:30 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:09:43 -!- htk__ [~htk_@188.3.228.226] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:09:48 Kickaha: remove slime-mdot-fu from your slime-setup 21:10:06 tcr: thanks :) 21:10:19 great, let me give it a try then 21:10:47 That does not work anymore, and nobody got to fix it 21:11:09 Is compiler notes tree dead too? 21:11:24 -!- pickles [~paul@d47-69-2-54.col.wideopenwest.com] has left #lisp 21:11:34 the contrib is there, I haven't used it since months so I can't comment on its state 21:11:37 *Fare* is tempted to use IDN as an encoding for filenames into logical pathnames... 21:11:44 don't tell janderson 21:11:50 what's wrong with the regular, emacs-style, compilation buffer? 21:12:17 Don't remember. I think I had some custom hack of yours with the pop out buffer. 21:12:21 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 21:12:23 freaktab [~chatzilla@dslb-088-075-198-215.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:12:40 maden [~maden@dsl-158-91.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 21:12:42 Fare: what's an IDN? 21:12:46 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:12:48 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 21:12:53 punycode 21:13:39 now it works great! Thanks everybody! 21:13:44 Fade: looks about as predictable 21:13:44 Fare: the coolest of all encodings 21:14:14 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 21:14:17 Fare: I liked your anti-LPN rant :-) 21:14:26 which? on asdf-devel? 21:14:29 yes 21:14:30 IDN doesn't deal with case insensitivity though 21:14:59 dammit. 21:15:25 oh well, have to invent one's own encoding for that, then. 21:15:44 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@host254-107-dynamic.244-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:16:05 or could we convince the vendors to agree to a better logical-pathname system? Sounds like too much pain for not enough gain. 21:16:52 well, ACL already is case sensitive, right? 21:18:40 Fare: I don't think a good LPN system will meet much resistance 21:18:48 Skiy [~skiy@mgdb-4db8d9a5.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:36 -!- egoz [~Egoz@202.70.51.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:19:54 I rather suspect it will. 21:20:01 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:20:14 Since good means going against CLHS spec. 21:21:18 +1 21:21:19 foom: the thing is nobody has tried it, as far as I can tell. 21:21:27 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:21:32 current LPNs are juts broken 21:21:47 Well, ACL has been quietly violating the spec for a long time. Its customers like that, but so far no other impls have followed suit. 21:22:32 yeah, well, if we find a proposal that is mostly compatible with CLHS, mostly compatible with existing practice, and more useful than what we have now, it might just get adopted... but that's months of work just to present a case with well-defined semantics after study of practice in the wild. Ouch. 21:22:53 -!- synthase [~synthase@adsl-220-175-182.mob.bellsouth.net] has quit [] 21:22:55 CCL also allows for lower-case in LPNs somehow. 21:23:08 -!- nowhere_man [pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:23:22 nowhere_man [pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:23:30 -!- freaktab [~chatzilla@dslb-088-075-198-215.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 21:24:13 why not make it a runtime option and that's all? 21:24:17 Fare: maybe one can come up with something completely different and have functions accepting filespec to be compatible 21:24:26 p_l: :case could allow that. 21:24:39 prxq, that would be another option. 21:24:41 -!- Joreji [~thomas@74-036.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:24:47 make symbols case sensitive too as a runtime option while you're at it. :) 21:25:01 *Fare* has a headache 21:25:13 given that, for example, Windows NT has to support two different path types and is broken if you upcase by default... 21:25:16 remind me why I'm using CL, already? 21:25:26 Fare: Macros? CLOS? 21:25:35 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0039-78-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 21:25:48 PLT has all that - and a half-decent implementation. 21:26:02 (but other issues of its own) 21:26:02 bigwavejake [~bigwaveja@24.136.234.158] has joined #lisp 21:26:19 Fare: Because you like to wrap yourself in cosy parenthesis 21:26:19 as for LPNs, most other languages either ignore the problem and hope no-one works on something other than POSIX (and wing it elsewhere), or have utterly annoying implementations... 21:26:57 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 21:27:01 python kind of does something sensible. 21:27:06 nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 21:27:14 (that applies to all of the pathname system, actually) 21:27:44 LPNs solve a problem that's not really necessary to solve these days. 21:27:54 hefner: here? 21:27:57 that too. 21:28:02 Fare: dunno about now, but last time I looked it involved a lot of concatenating path elements (strings) and OS-specific directory separator 21:28:07 zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.15.89] has joined #lisp 21:28:12 the pathname abstraction solves a real problem, in a ....so so... way 21:28:16 foom: but it was necessary when the spec was written. 21:28:21 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:28:27 tcr: yeah, what's up? 21:28:31 Still, in XCVB, I needed some way to map things from source name to pathname. 21:28:42 foom: and I find myself often wanting to have something like that working ok. 21:28:44 I'm going to meet up with juanjo tomorrow, anything I should tell him? 21:28:48 if LPNs had been sensible enough, they could have done the trick 21:28:49 p_l: something like what? 21:28:57 foom: CLs pathname system with less warts 21:29:07 p_l: Pathnames: yes, with less warts. 21:29:14 instead, I'm having another ad-hoc hash-table to map things. 21:29:15 p_l: LPNS: no, worthless. 21:29:39 kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-251-48.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 21:29:49 btw, upcasing isn't acceptable on any OS on which you can run open-source implementations (other than clisp) 21:29:49 -!- davertron [~Dave@vt-sb-1.logicsupply.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:30:02 p_l: darwin casefolds by default still. 21:30:23 It doesn't casefold the same way your lisp impl does, though. 21:30:24 if I had to design a system, it would store pathnames in native OS representation, and do manipulations on top of that. 21:30:26 pkhuong: filesystem dependant, iirc and it's still case-preserving? 21:30:29 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:30:42 maybe lazily parsing/unparsing things. 21:30:53 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 21:31:02 yes, filesystem dependent. It's HFS+ which is case-insensitive, not darwin. 21:31:05 for example, on windows, upcasing (or downcasing) is a little known bug in many userspace apps. 21:31:25 And it's case-insensitive using a fixed mapping table, not e.g. using the latest unicode spec. 21:31:42 p_l: by default, case preserving but it'll find the same file anyway. 21:31:48 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-xo.basistech.com] has joined #lisp 21:32:01 too many broken apps still. 21:32:11 p_l: what does *casing do on windows? 21:32:12 foom: HFS+ (and OSX altogether) and it's unicode encoding is somehow known among poor admins to fuck up network storage.. 21:32:22 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 21:32:34 Fare: breaks paths, because casefolding is a compat option that is just enabled by default, but is not required. 21:33:05 and for example every Windows install since Vista that I have doesn't do casefolding 21:33:12 -!- tomaw [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 21:33:13 oh, nice. 21:33:19 (i.e., everything is case-sensitive) 21:33:28 Windows evolves in the right direction. 21:33:36 and breaks bad applications 21:33:46 p_l: Perhaps you're referring to the fact that OSX programs like to use filenames with decomposed accents (and HFS+ enforces that by translating on open)? 21:33:56 Fare: it's actually something that is there since 3.51, but as I said, it's compat thing :) 21:33:56 -!- bigwavejake [~bigwaveja@24.136.234.158] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:33:59 foom: yup 21:34:20 of course, technically they made the absolutely correct choice. 21:34:34 foom: technically. Practically, I had heard horror stories ;-) 21:34:40 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:34:43 yeah, interop is hard. :) 21:34:53 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:35:03 especially since linux doesn't tend to let you type decomposed accents. 21:35:14 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.15.89] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:35:33 zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.15.89] has joined #lisp 21:35:41 foom: now imagine a network that has NT, OSX and *nix clients all around... 21:35:45 foom: depends on the input method 21:35:48 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 21:35:49 -!- eugu [~Miranda@212.1.246.237] has quit [Quit: eugu] 21:36:21 probably depends on whether you have AwesomeInputKit installed. :P 21:36:43 tomaw [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has joined #lisp 21:36:50 -!- Mazingaro [~tetsuja@host10-230-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:36:58 *p_l* doesn't necessarily want decomposed accents since they might actually by as important as the letter... 21:37:05 foom: why would precomposing accents instead not have been a better (or just as good) choice? 21:37:12 Fare: I can mount several file systems that handle case and non-ASCII characters differently on my system. 21:37:13 tcr: Nothing pressing. Last time I worked on Linux, ECL was crashing in its compiler with alarming frequency like I'd previously complained about on Win32, but I can't recall if that's with the alpha version of Boehm or not. =/ 21:37:29 Fare: it's a lot easier to sort with decomposed accents. 21:37:37 ... it's a total mess for software to deal with. 21:38:14 tcr: my only wishlist item is the ability to build on win32 with threads disabled (I don't trust them :). 21:38:14 the fun with enabling case-sensitivity on NT is that many apps might stop working because they can no longer find device files... 21:38:20 (is there a canonical order to sort multiple decomposed accents?) 21:38:32 (by codepoint?) 21:38:45 hefner: ok that sounds like something I may actually be able to remember 21:38:50 Fare: probably alphabetic while ignoring accents... 21:39:17 there is a canonical ordering to combining characters, yes 21:39:22 there's a ... what foom says 21:39:32 OSX also enforces that for you. 21:40:53 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.15.89] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:40:55 tcr: I think also with threads disabled ECL can be much more efficient, but I haven't tested this :) 21:40:58 Fare: I believe Unicode does indeed define a sort order for composed characters, yes. 21:41:07 zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.15.89] has joined #lisp 21:41:08 abugosh [~Adium@70.15.204.182.res-cmts.sm.ptd.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:09 *p_l* recalls that some OSes still don't allow directories, so people just tended to standardise on a common separator... 21:41:29 p_l: what ? 21:41:51 wolfspaw [~wolfspaw@189.124.196.230] has joined #lisp 21:41:53 p_l: SymbianOS? 21:42:06 fe[nl]ix: I'm not sure if it doesn't happen anymore, but MVS tended to do that... given that z/OS is basically modern-day MVS... 21:42:09 bigwavejake [~bigwaveja@24.136.234.158] has joined #lisp 21:42:09 the slime video ( from Marco ) is down in the common-lisp.net, does anyone know another link for it? 21:42:20 -!- bigwavejake [~bigwaveja@24.136.234.158] has quit [Client Quit] 21:43:05 ehu: symbian handles FAT32 just fine 21:43:24 symbian has DOS-like paths, afaik 21:44:29 epoc did; symbian too? 21:45:18 ehu: symbian is epoc 21:45:41 -!- HG` [~HG@xdslgl117.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:45:53 iirc, they didn't even switch kernel version till the version used by S603rdE 21:46:17 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 21:46:31 jmbr [~jmbr@vpn184.vpn.ucm.es] has joined #lisp 21:46:54 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@vpn184.vpn.ucm.es] has quit [Client Quit] 21:47:22 -!- wolfspaw [~wolfspaw@189.124.196.230] has quit [] 21:47:29 ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 21:47:35 *Fare* has to back out changes to XCVB putting generated Lisp files in the build directory, until there's a build-time mapping from names to pathnames. 21:48:29 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.15.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:48:56 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Quit: +++ killed by SIGSEGV +++] 21:49:01 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:49:14 -!- hicx174 [~hicx174@211.187.100.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:49:23 zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.15.89] has joined #lisp 21:49:41 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:49:57 -!- prxq [~mommer@g227066025.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:50:13 hicx174 [~hicx174@211.187.100.115] has joined #lisp 21:50:39 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 21:50:48 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.12.21] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:51:56 ok. I thought there was an EPOC (later EPOC16?) OS and a SymbianOS; different OSes (which may have had the same name at one time or another) 21:52:06 but, I guess that's not about Lisp. 21:53:50 mindCrime [~chatzilla@64.134.184.174] has joined #lisp 21:54:12 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.15.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:54:49 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-xo.basistech.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:54:51 zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.15.89] has joined #lisp 21:55:39 -!- Davidbrcz [david@212-198-83-2.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:57:32 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:58:47 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 21:59:40 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0039-78-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:59:50 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:00:30 WOG [~OsamaBinW@24-177-10-101.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:00:41 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:01:23 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 22:04:36 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 22:05:36 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Puf!] 22:06:24 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:07:34 -!- Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:07:47 TR2N` [email@89-180-163-29.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 22:07:50 -!- borism [~boris@ec2-184-73-184-235.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:07:54 -!- dmelani [~dmelani@c83-253-52-14.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:08:05 borism [~boris@ec2-184-73-184-235.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 22:08:08 dmelani [~dmelani@c83-253-52-14.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 22:08:55 bytecolo` [~user@70.136.248.12] has joined #lisp 22:08:55 -!- Phoodus [foo@174-22-192-228.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:08:55 -!- krappie [~brain@mx.skitzo.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:09:00 krappie [~brain@mx.skitzo.org] has joined #lisp 22:09:02 -!- abugosh [~Adium@70.15.204.182.res-cmts.sm.ptd.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:09:11 -!- wbraun [~wolfgang@p5B202106.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:09:37 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.15.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:10:09 -!- TR2N [email@89.180.163.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:10:18 zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.15.89] has joined #lisp 22:10:46 -!- smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:11:00 -!- bytecolor [~user@adsl-70-136-248-12.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:11:04 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:12:36 smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:13:23 -!- felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:13:42 drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:16:07 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 22:16:36 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 22:19:44 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:20:28 synthasee [~synthase@adsl-220-175-182.mob.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 22:20:43 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 22:22:11 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-251-48.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:24:23 Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:24:36 minion slime.mov 22:26:26 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:27:13 are you looking for a link udzinari? 22:27:29 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 22:27:47 quodlibetor [~user@146.95.31.146] has joined #lisp 22:28:21 Guthur: somebody was asking... http://www.guba.com/watch/3000054867 is where it is hosted in normal quality, but I can't add it to this definition 22:29:10 p_l gave me a downloaded link once I think, p_l? 22:29:37 downloadable* 22:30:24 I have it localy.. using it as inspiration for creating some of my own.. just not yet :) 22:30:41 It's quite a good video 22:30:44 -!- fatblueduck [~duck@pool-71-104-235-97.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:31:44 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:33:32 I have to admit I do find a textual tutorial or hint sheet somewhat better in terms referencing 22:33:53 jan247 [~jan247@120.28.113.122] has joined #lisp 22:33:58 -!- jan247 [~jan247@120.28.113.122] has quit [Changing host] 22:33:58 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 22:35:08 I do agree, but as a demonstration tool they (screencasts) are quite good 22:35:13 minion: slime.mov? 22:35:13 slime.mov: "using SLIME" video by Marco Baringer, http://common-lisp.net/project/movies/movies/slime.mov 22:36:43 p_l: I continued that conversation with minion in /msg :) 22:37:56 getting personal with minion, hehe 22:39:00 Marco inspired me to start using paredit 22:39:09 Awesome tool in my opinion 22:39:13 quotemstr [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:39:50 Also C-c C-d d 22:40:00 -!- hefner [~root@ppp-61-90-103-60.revip.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:40:01 Though I should have known that one anyway. 22:40:28 I had hard time getting used to C-J and C-U Del/Backspace c-q ( :/ 22:41:52 -!- faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:42:10 -!- nunb [~nundan@59.178.211.20] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 22:42:32 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.82.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:42:39 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@g229083246.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 22:42:47 nunb [~nundan@59.178.192.82] has joined #lisp 22:42:55 abugosh [~Adium@70.15.204.182.res-cmts.sm.ptd.net] has joined #lisp 22:43:39 -!- Kickaha [~Adium@bl14-21-69.dsl.telepac.pt] has left #lisp 22:44:09 C-q ( was what? 22:45:06 insert paren (without paredit intervening) 22:45:28 Marco recommend binding that to something else 22:45:38 recommended 22:46:21 I'm already used to it 22:46:23 -!- bytecolo` [~user@70.136.248.12] has left #lisp 22:46:39 when do you need to do that? 22:46:47 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:47:14 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 22:47:44 when I am using gnu screen mostly, but more with [ than parens 22:47:47 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:48:49 -!- Makoryu [~vt920@ool-4a599a98.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:51:55 -!- quodlibetor [~user@146.95.31.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:52:26 Is it possible to have paredit at the REPL? 22:52:36 yes 22:52:38 Sikander [~soemraws@5356EFC5.cable.casema.nl] has joined #lisp 22:52:49 fatblueduck [~duck@pool-71-104-235-97.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:53:00 Umm my settings must be wrong 22:53:05 I will paste elisp for you in a sec 22:53:09 I only have it in .lisp 22:54:50 udzinari pasted "paredit at REPL" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98517 22:55:20 great cheers udzinari 22:55:41 np 22:57:15 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.] 22:57:46 drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:58:34 -!- gl [~gl@coders.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:59:59 -!- pers [~user@129.sub-75-231-148.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:00:47 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.213] has joined #lisp 23:02:31 -!- proqesi [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:03:29 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:07:28 -!- Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:08:33 -!- quotemstr [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: quotemstr] 23:09:19 _macro [~macro@shiva.mochimedia.net] has joined #lisp 23:09:34 quotemstr [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:09:40 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: bork bork...] 23:11:00 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@64.134.184.174] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:16:52 -!- nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: "You can either call me by name, pronouncing it 'Veert', or call me by value, 'Worth.'" -- Niklaus Wirth] 23:17:17 quodlibetor [~user@146.95.31.146] has joined #lisp 23:17:18 -!- nurv [nurv@83.231.19.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:21:34 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-2-151-37.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:32:53 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.40] has joined #lisp 23:34:32 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 23:34:41 -!- entropax [~entropi@nat/intel/x-gwdexcbpvzokafet] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:37:27 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:40:04 nurv [nurv@83.231.16.166] has joined #lisp 23:41:54 mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:43:42 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@hugmyndahus.hugmyndahus.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 23:48:39 netytan [~netytan@85.211.45.88] has joined #lisp 23:48:43 maxigas [~user@89.242.150.238] has joined #lisp 23:49:46 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 23:49:51 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 23:54:25 -!- maxigas [~user@89.242.150.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:56:29 -!- bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:56:59 -!- Harag [~Harag@41.56.53.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:58:46 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:59:14 -!- Soulman [~kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo http://www.kvirc.net/]