00:01:04 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:01:50 -!- Soulman [~kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:02:55 -!- ``Erik [~erik@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:15:51 -!- quodlibetor [~user@146.95.21.173] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:15:57 lithper1_ [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:18:46 parolang` [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 00:21:33 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.71] has joined #lisp 00:21:56 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 00:24:37 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@12.171.143.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:25:57 Demosthenes [~demo@12.171.143.4] has joined #lisp 00:30:45 I'm curious how per-thread values of special variables are implemented in SBCL. Is the entire symbol-storage area in TLS memory space? The disassembly only shows a single dereference to get the value 00:31:46 Each special variable is assigned an index from a fixed-size pool upon the first binding. 00:32:23 It's then a direct look up in TLS (via fs on x86, and a dedicated thread register on x86-64) 00:33:44 nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has joined #lisp 00:34:05 ok 00:34:28 argh, I'm looking at disassemblies on win32, which probalby has that stuff snipped out of its build, as I don't see anythin with fs 00:34:31 pkhuong: doesn't x86-64 specify FS as being there only for the purpose of thread-related ABI? (at least on sysv?) 00:34:50 (erm, win64 for all it matters) 00:35:03 Phoodus: win32 doesn't have threads. 00:35:07 right 00:35:23 so that makes sense that the disassemblies are smaller when dereferencing special variables ;) 00:35:35 p_l: possible. Using a register is very probably smaller faster still. 00:35:51 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:36:27 -!- licoresse [~user@cm-84.209.103.64.getinternet.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:36:37 -!- licoress_ [~user@cm-84.209.103.64.getinternet.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:37:05 licoress_ [~user@cm-84.209.103.64.getinternet.no] has joined #lisp 00:37:08 licoresse [~user@cm-84.209.103.64.getinternet.no] has joined #lisp 00:38:23 pkhuong: SysV amd64 ABI defines FS as "reserved for system use (as thread specific data register)" 00:40:40 and we already had that on x86, but preferred to use a dedicated gpr for lisp-thread-local stuff. 00:42:03 pkhuong: btw, how bad it is for SBCL if foreign code starts new threads? 00:42:49 very. 00:43:02 They receive signals and then we're all confused. 00:43:19 redline6561 [~redline@gate-30.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 00:43:50 pkhuong: so, would it be good if I made any thread started by foreign code get masked from all signals? 00:44:05 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 00:44:13 *p_l* was wondering if it was worthwhile experiment 00:44:41 that would be a good first step. 00:44:54 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-23-38.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:45:31 -!- licoresse [~user@cm-84.209.103.64.getinternet.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:45:31 -!- licoress_ [~user@cm-84.209.103.64.getinternet.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:45:45 cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 00:46:49 pkhuong: I have a plan to make all foreign threads that don't do something utterly stupid register with Lisp and get all of signal handling etc. configured properly 00:48:10 oh yeah, it's possible to hack something up and register threads post facto. 00:50:09 pkhuong: I was planning of hijacking pthreads API 00:50:28 _macro [~macro@shiva.mochimedia.net] has joined #lisp 00:50:33 as long as the thread isn't created by direct syscall, it would work. 00:50:47 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@12.171.143.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:51:04 abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:23 darkestkhan1 [~darkestkh@host137.217.146.194.generacja.pl] has joined #lisp 00:52:08 Demosthenes [~demo@12.171.143.4] has joined #lisp 00:54:39 -!- darkestkhan [~darkestkh@host137.217.146.194.generacja.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:57:41 -!- netytan [~netytan@85.211.63.239] has quit [Quit: netytan] 00:59:19 *p_l* also read up about some method that allowed syscall override in userspace, but it was much more system-specific and brittle 01:00:45 Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 01:02:03 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:02:50 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:05:06 -!- cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 01:05:42 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@12.171.143.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:08:14 -!- redline6561 [~redline@gate-30.spsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:08:40 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-23-38.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:09:57 Demosthenes [~demo@12.171.143.4] has joined #lisp 01:13:52 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has quit [Quit: Want lisppaste in your channel? Email lisppaste-requests AT common-lisp.net.] 01:13:56 lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 01:14:30 reprore_ [~reprore@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:14:34 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@12.171.143.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:18:53 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.204.40] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 01:19:39 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:19:41 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:24:49 -!- nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:24:52 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@130.166.209.14] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 01:25:12 -!- _macro [~macro@shiva.mochimedia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:25:31 -!- Guthur [~Michael@host213-122-221-177.range213-122.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:28:16 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 01:36:48 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 01:39:18 -!- xinming [~hyy@125.109.242.11] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:39:39 xinming [~hyy@125.109.242.11] has joined #lisp 01:50:12 cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 01:50:16 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 01:51:28 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-34-36-194.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 01:52:22 -!- fihi09``` [~user@pool-96-224-168-250.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:53:01 debiandebian [~chatzilla@ntszok008047.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:56:10 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 01:56:52 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:58:17 How do you deal with nested anamorphic macros? Consider (aif foo (bar it) qux), where bar uses aif and expands its argument in the lexical scope of its own aif. 01:58:29 The macro argument binds to the wrong value. 01:59:21 anaphoric, and I avoid them :) 02:00:06 anaphoric, right. Oops. :) 02:01:09 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [] 02:01:26 The problem seems unsolveable. 02:02:36 quotemstr: you'll have to rebind it, or allow users to specify which symbol they want to bind. 02:08:25 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 02:08:51 -!- Axioplase_ [~Axioplase@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:09:16 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 02:10:31 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:12:52 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 02:13:37 -!- Fruktsoda [~EchoB@unaffiliated/fruktsoda] has quit [Quit: Bye bye Kansas!] 02:15:28 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 02:16:27 codewalk and rewrite. 02:17:03 mle: rewrite how? 02:17:34 like scheme's hygienic macros, if I understand what you're trying to do there. 02:17:40 (I likely don't) 02:17:51 mle: no, you don't. 02:18:36 pkhuong: maybe i'm not fully understanding fp, but could exponent be larger than 1073 for double floats? 02:19:11 stassats: the problem is that denorms scale down much farther than normalised numbers scale up. 02:19:37 -!- smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:19:40 ah 02:19:41 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 02:20:24 So, in fact, the exponent can't be larger than 1023, but can be more negative than -1024 (modulo fencepost). 02:21:02 right, as i commented on lp, i used least-positive-long-float, whose exponent is -1073 02:21:03 mle: anaphoric macros are all about intentional capture. Problem is, when you nest their scopes, you can't have the scoping somehow guess which identifier should be captured. 02:21:44 stassats: so if I have an exponent of 1050, I won't get an error, but could get an fp infty. 02:21:45 but slightly larger exponents can be catched further into function, the problem is with too big values 02:22:23 pkhuong: it doesn't discard any other previous checks 02:22:50 stassats: right, but, in the previous version, whether I got an error or not always depended on the float mask. 02:23:14 Now, for large enough exponents, I'll always get one, regardless of the mask. 02:24:43 similarly, I could trap on underflow, but now I'll get a 0 for most tiny values. 02:24:47 -!- gwynddyllyd [~fintn@201.29.235.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:25:19 or flush to zero... 02:25:34 I think capping the exponent would make more sense. 02:25:42 right, but would you do that with the reader? 02:26:06 Maybe not, but consistency would be nice. 02:26:31 capping in case of negative exponent? 02:26:47 -!- fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has quit [Quit: Disconnecting from stoned server.] 02:26:50 both cases. 02:27:01 fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 02:27:15 Just cap the exponents and follow with the old path. 02:27:30 -!- reprore_ [~reprore@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:28:20 oh, i see, so that it will signal errors further down the line 02:28:51 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:28:57 or whatever the current state says will happen. 02:29:38 yeah, that sounds better, but what value to cap too? 1074? 02:30:03 s/too/to/ 02:30:26 well, even then, you have to handle 1000d-1075. 02:30:47 I assume your code does that already? 02:32:25 i didn't understand that part, you mean to handle negative exponents? 02:32:37 minion: cocoa? 02:32:38 cocoa: Apple's native Cocoa Frameworks can be used from OpenMCL via its Objective C-Bridge. http://www.cliki.net/cocoa 02:32:59 no. I mean that you have to take the significand's magnitude into account before looking at the exponent. 02:33:13 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-82-53.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:33:21 Axioplase_ [~Axioplase@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has joined #lisp 02:33:32 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-82-53.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 02:34:01 oh, i didn't do that 02:34:24 good point 02:35:01 And then you get into misleading error messages... 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abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has joined #lisp 05:40:34 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-214-244.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:40:39 evening 05:41:34 -!- dysinger [~dysinger@cpe-98-150-133-209.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dysinger] 05:42:02 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:42:14 -!- ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:48:23 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 05:49:56 is (:RUN-PROGRAM :INHERIT-STDIN) test in sbcl broken? 05:51:03 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:51:28 abeaumont [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 05:52:02 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:55:33 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 05:56:26 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 05:56:38 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 05:56:57 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 05:57:43 Axius [~hi@92.82.91.78] has joined #lisp 05:58:18 -!- Axius [~hi@92.82.91.78] has quit [Client Quit] 06:02:14 -!- lithper1_ [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100423140709]] 06:03:55 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.72.248] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:04:32 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 06:08:36 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c-9eb4e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:08:38 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:09:15 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-078-042-205-245.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 06:10:12 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 06:10:29 -!- synthase [~synthase@adsl-220-182-234.mob.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:10:47 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 06:11:28 ASau` [~user@77.246.231.80] has joined #lisp 06:14:22 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:14:42 lp 524707 06:14:43 https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/524707 06:16:23 mdj [~user@apnnew5.lnk.telstra.net] has joined #lisp 06:16:48 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 06:17:16 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 06:19:39 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:20:46 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-168-152-229.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 06:20:48 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-135-10.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: night] 06:21:53 mdj` [~user@apnnew5.lnk.telstra.net] has joined #lisp 06:22:08 -!- brookeGarcia [~brookeGar@dsl-155-237.aei.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:22:36 -!- mdj [~user@apnnew5.lnk.telstra.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:23:02 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:24:24 ost` [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 06:24:24 -!- ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:26:04 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-078-042-205-245.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 06:26:13 -!- ost` is now known as ost 06:27:48 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 06:29:18 dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:30:42 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:32:48 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@host102-108-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:33:32 vtl [~user@rb5bi64.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 06:38:21 Davidbrcz [david@212-198-83-2.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 06:38:41 -!- varjagg is now known as varjag 06:38:45 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 06:38:50 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:38:54 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 06:39:22 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@adsl-99-184-146-45.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 06:43:21 quotemstr_ [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:43:57 -!- quotemstr_ [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:44:02 quotemstr_ [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:44:16 How do I get the name of a function when I have the function itself? 06:44:41 -!- mdj` [~user@apnnew5.lnk.telstra.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:45:02 no standard reliable way 06:45:03 you can't portably 06:45:14 what' the name of a lambda? 06:45:15 (nth-value 2 (function-lambda-expression #'list)) might work, and might not 06:45:29 tcr: lambda itself 06:45:34 thom_logn [~thom@pool-74-100-140-188.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:46:12 -!- Davidbrcz [david@212-198-83-2.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:46:23 -!- quotemstr [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 06:46:23 -!- quotemstr_ is now known as quotemstr 06:46:49 stassats: Thanks. happen to know of a lib that abstracts that out for portability? 06:47:13 moptilities has "function-arglist"; so close. 06:47:29 what do you want to do with it? 06:47:50 rlpowell: function-lambda-expression is portable 06:47:54 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:48:09 but is not guaranteed to work 06:48:12 good morning 06:48:35 mal__: Print it; documentation browser. 06:49:26 a documentation browser supposedly goes over a package 06:49:27 that's marginally reasonable :) 06:49:40 anyway look into the swank-backend for how they implement function-name 06:49:49 it still doesn't deal with stuff like redefinitions 06:51:12 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:51:35 supposedly, if they implemented swank:function-name, then f-l-e will return the name as well 06:53:28 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-90-18.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:54:31 -!- ale_ [~ale@109.76.76.44] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:55:28 < tcr> a documentation browser supposedly goes over a package -- the issue is that I'm using moptilities' generic-functions to get a list of generics on a class... but that gives me an idea. Thanks. :) 06:55:44 (An O(n^2) idea, but I can deal with that later :)) 06:56:18 list of methods? 06:56:19 have you looked at its implementation? Perhaps its implementation actually goes over names, and simply runs fdefinition on those 06:56:58 stassats: That's the idea, yes. 06:56:59 ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has joined #lisp 06:57:00 tcr: *nod* 06:57:58 if you're using mop, than you can use sb-mop:generic-function-name 06:58:10 Xantoz [~hejhej@c-d1b3e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 06:58:37 s/sb-// 07:02:25 TR2N [email@89.180.190.122] has joined #lisp 07:03:37 fiveop [~fiveop@g229178168.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 07:04:14 24: nnml+private:list.sbcl-commits 07:04:23 *Krystof* checks the date 07:04:37 nope, not April 1 07:08:09 mishoo [~mishoo@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:10:14 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:18:39 -!- reprore_ [~reprore@p4b216c.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:20:08 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:22:02 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@g229178168.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 07:22:27 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 07:23:31 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 07:24:11 dysinger [~dysinger@cpe-98-150-133-209.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:24:15 -!- dysinger [~dysinger@cpe-98-150-133-209.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 07:24:32 Uh it seems I cannot interactively redefine a defstruct to a defclass 07:24:38 was that always the case? 07:25:03 Soulman [~kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 07:26:28 tcr: you can unintern the defstruct's name 07:26:52 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:28:16 that doesn't sound interactive 07:28:19 Dodek [dodek@wikipedia/Dodek] has joined #lisp 07:29:16 jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 07:29:19 not that it should 07:29:39 bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has joined #lisp 07:30:00 licoresse [~user@cm-84.209.103.64.getinternet.no] has joined #lisp 07:32:27 -!- randa [~randa@94.99.50.84.sta.estpak.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:32:49 randa [~randa@94.99.50.84.sta.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 07:33:17 -!- abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:36:41 jgracin [~jgracin@dh111-186.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 07:39:19 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-90-18.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 07:39:54 attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 07:41:37 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-153-248.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:41:56 dysinger [~dysinger@cpe-98-150-133-209.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:42:00 -!- bytecolor [~user@adsl-70-136-248-12.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:42:06 -!- konr [~user@187.106.48.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:42:17 bytecolor [~user@70.136.248.12] has joined #lisp 07:42:30 -!- vtl [~user@rb5bi64.net.upc.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:43:15 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:43:57 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@122-57-6-220.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 07:45:59 -!- bytecolor [~user@70.136.248.12] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:46:45 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-6-220.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:47:21 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-16-247-61.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:49:07 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:50:36 Good morning! 07:50:46 hello beach 07:50:50 hello beach 07:51:28 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.12.21] has joined #lisp 07:54:43 tcr: yeah, that has been around for a while. 07:54:48 tcr: and I believe it's intentional 07:56:03 -!- yacin [~yacin@tyr.gtisc.gatech.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:56:06 yacin [~yacin@tyr.gtisc.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 07:57:34 -!- dysinger [~dysinger@cpe-98-150-133-209.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dysinger] 08:10:28 -!- plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-108-126.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:12:11 -!- Harag [~Harag@41.56.58.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:15:37 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.7] has joined #lisp 08:16:48 nostoi [~nostoi@242.Red-79-151-255.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:17:16 stettber` [stettberge@2001:6f8:1209:f0:216:3eff:fe03:ff] has joined #lisp 08:17:31 -!- stettber` [stettberge@2001:6f8:1209:f0:216:3eff:fe03:ff] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:17:46 -!- stettberger [stettberge@2001:6f8:1209:f0:216:3eff:fe03:ff] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:18:02 stettberger [stettberge@2001:6f8:1209:f0:216:3eff:fe03:ff] has joined #lisp 08:19:08 mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has joined #lisp 08:20:56 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 08:21:33 morning 08:21:40 hello frodef 08:21:58 frodef: You wrote bintypes, right? 08:22:28 among other things like Movitz ;) 08:22:54 Movitz = this OS-Kernel? 08:23:08 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-16-247-61.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:23:14 that OS-Kernel 08:23:15 minion: tell schoppenhauer about movitz 08:23:16 schoppenhauer: please look at movitz: Movitz is a Common Lisp implementation that targets the x86 PC architecture "on-the-metal". http://www.cliki.net/movitz 08:23:33 ok, yes, its the kernel ^^ 08:23:39 beach: yes 08:23:49 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:23:51 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:23:59 frodef: Do you have any documentation for it? 08:24:23 I thought there was a README or something there? 08:24:26 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 08:24:51 argh *stupid x-server-bug* 08:25:09 oh no, they removed my webspace in Troms�.. :) 08:26:35 beach: http://common-lisp.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/binary-types/README?root=movitz&view=markup 08:27:36 frodef: Thanks! 08:28:25 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-hsijbvseiumzgyet] has left #lisp 08:29:20 hlavaty [~user@77-22-100-58-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:29:37 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 08:31:40 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.] 08:31:48 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-vvxwwduacicdbfrb] has joined #lisp 08:31:54 is there an appache ant channel? 08:31:59 jsnell: any chance to apply time-t changes for NetBSD? 08:32:51 pkhuong: I understood your remark about displacing the 2d array into a 1d array yesterday evening. That is really cool. 08:34:27 Yuuhi`` [benni@p54839E76.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:34:47 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 08:34:59 martin pasted "displace multi-dimensional array into vector" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98417 08:36:28 ``Erik [~erik@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:38:08 gozek [~quassel@85.52.166.111] has joined #lisp 08:38:26 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p54839E76.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:38:42 Regarding the inherit-stdin hang, it seems like the test actually succeeds if it's run in isolation 08:41:26 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@242.Red-79-151-255.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 08:48:20 -!- fusss [~kumi@li63-187.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:51:48 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 08:51:58 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.71] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:56:02 Guthur [~Michael@host213-122-221-177.range213-122.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 08:59:38 hello 09:00:38 hello fe[nl]ix 09:03:25 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:04:22 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 09:04:24 hi beach 09:06:41 sepeth [~user@89.106.0.148] has joined #lisp 09:09:40 ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 09:10:30 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 09:10:59 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:11:48 -!- eldragon [~eldragon@84.79.67.254] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:14:22 -!- ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:14:33 ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 09:15:14 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-52.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:16:27 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 09:16:27 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 09:16:40 eldragon [~eldragon@84.79.67.254] has joined #lisp 09:17:19 -!- pookleblinky [~pooklebli@cpe-67-252-140-159.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:22:12 -!- Guthur [~Michael@host213-122-221-177.range213-122.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:22:30 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 09:24:25 aerique [euqirea@xs3.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 09:25:13 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs3.xs4all.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 09:26:54 Krystof: ping? 09:27:58 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 09:28:23 ASau`: I suggest you send a reminder to the mailinglist, replying to the posting that actually contains the patch 09:29:28 ASau`: believe it or not, this isn't even close to my day job 09:30:07 Xof: neither to mine. 09:30:15 tbug [~tboeglin@ns.blissgarden.org] has joined #lisp 09:32:52 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-vvxwwduacicdbfrb] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:32:54 fiveop [~fiveop@dfn189.rz.tu-ilmenau.de] has joined #lisp 09:35:04 -!- esubterra [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:35:27 (I've noted that you tested the patch on earlier versions of NetBSD, which means that if I get time I'd be favourably inclined) 09:35:58 -!- ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 09:37:49 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-esbjcrpugkcdpcov] has joined #lisp 09:39:52 faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 09:40:41 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:43:39 -!- tbug [~tboeglin@ns.blissgarden.org] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 09:44:00 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.12.21] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:46:42 kwinz3 [~kwinz@e194-101.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 09:47:39 Aperculum [~laurihak@unaffiliated/aperculum] has joined #lisp 09:48:15 is there library reference index for all the functions in common lisp? 09:48:34 minion: tell Aperculum about clhs 09:48:34 Aperculum: please look at clhs: To look up a symbol in the HyperSpec, try saying "clhs symbol". For more information on the HyperSpec see http://www.cliki.net/CLHS . 09:49:08 esubterra [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 09:49:10 ooh, thanks a lot :) 09:49:18 No problem. 09:50:40 Aperculum: Boy, you haven't been here since 2005. What have you been doing all this time? Not programming in Lisp I take it? 09:51:14 I've been here before? o.O 09:51:28 yeah, not programming in lisp :( 09:51:30 05.10.21:14:47:09 can I use lisp as scripting language? 09:51:35 lisp-related amnesia? :) 09:52:28 5 years ago is like quarter of my lifetime 09:52:35 it's no wonder I don't remember 09:53:59 but yeah, I've always wanted to learn lisp ever since I heard of it 09:54:13 Now, seems like a good time. 09:56:02 I came upon Practical Common Lisp book which made my have another swing at lisp 09:56:14 me* 09:58:15 I mean the physical book, I know it is readable online but I prefer the book 09:59:32 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-176-201-4.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 10:00:01 cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 10:01:08 -!- dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:01:13 -!- cmm- [~cmm@bzq-79-176-200-31.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:02:24 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:03:10 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 10:04:55 Demosthenes [~demo@12.171.143.4] has joined #lisp 10:05:30 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@12.171.143.4] has quit [Client Quit] 10:06:13 -!- drrho [~rho@chello213047112079.11.11.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:06:27 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 10:08:18 bakkdoor [~bakkdoor@s15229144.onlinehome-server.info] has joined #lisp 10:15:12 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:16:30 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@e194-101.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:19:33 Harag [~Harag@41.56.53.3] has joined #lisp 10:19:56 -!- WOG [~OsamaBinW@66-168-47-22.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:20:27 WOG [~OsamaBinW@66-168-47-22.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 10:20:35 billitch [~billitch@dslb-188-102-048-229.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:23:27 nunb [~nundan@59.178.214.237] has joined #lisp 10:24:36 Anyone encountered this error: Couldn't load foreign libraries "clsql_uffi64", "clsql_uffi" ? 10:25:10 Hoping the accel branch from http://github.com/UnwashedMeme/clsql will fix it (it uses cffi instead) 10:25:44 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 10:26:39 nunb: you might need to manually compile some C stuff 10:28:28 schoppenhauer [~senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 10:29:14 -!- esubterra is now known as CrazyEddy 10:29:14 -!- somecodehere [~ingvar@77-233-95-4.televork.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:31:11 p_l: the .dylib, .lib etc. files are present where it's looking for them. I'll see if the Makefile has anything.. 10:33:37 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:34:04 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: bombshelter13b] 10:35:09 Yuuhi``` [benni@p54839E76.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:35:38 -!- Yuuhi`` [benni@p54839E76.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:36:02 kwinz3 [~kwinz@e194-114.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 10:36:04 -!- Yuuhi``` [benni@p54839E76.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 10:36:15 pookleblinky [~pooklebli@cpe-67-252-140-159.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:38:43 -!- nunb [~nundan@59.178.214.237] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:40:01 darkestkhan [~darkestkh@host137.217.146.194.generacja.pl] has joined #lisp 10:40:02 -!- darkestkhan1 [~darkestkh@host137.217.146.194.generacja.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:42:11 nunb [~nundan@59.178.208.214] has joined #lisp 10:43:39 -!- Younder [~jthing@212.251.245.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:44:29 -!- pookleblinky [~pooklebli@cpe-67-252-140-159.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:50:17 patrickmclaren [~user@ppp118-209-227-6.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:51:00 ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 10:52:07 Why does (cons (list 1 2) (list 3 4)) evaluate to ((1 2) 3 4) and not ((1 2) (3 4))? 10:52:31 patrickmclaren: because that's how conses work 10:53:12 patrickmclaren: draw some cons diagrams first; but to get what you want you would have to evaluate this: (cons (list 1 2) (cons (list 3 4) nil) 10:53:35 ) 10:53:40 where's pjb consobot when you need it 10:55:09 okay I'll try drawing both of those and I'm sure I'll see where I'm misunderstanding 10:55:13 cheers :) 10:56:42 _6502_ [~5895bdc9@gateway/web/freenode/x-zqecmgzhlkrqxjwx] has joined #lisp 10:57:30 patrickmclaren: also try (cons 1 (list 1 2)) 10:58:15 -!- _6502_ [~5895bdc9@gateway/web/freenode/x-zqecmgzhlkrqxjwx] has quit [Client Quit] 10:58:34 sure 11:01:22 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:03:26 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0090-205-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 11:04:30 Think of it in dotted notation. 11:04:45 '((1 2) . (3 4)) 11:05:33 Compare with '(1 . (2)) which is '(1 2) in normal notation. 11:05:38 debiandebian [~chatzilla@ntszok008047.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:06:38 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 11:07:30 -!- christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:09:24 Edward_ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-13-216.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:09:58 clsql_uffi64 definitely exists, and yet clsql says it is unable to load the foreign libraries 11:10:23 (I just ran make to confirm that they're being built from the clsql-uffi.c file in the same directory) 11:10:41 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@122-57-6-220.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:11:24 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-6-220.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 11:11:43 christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 11:15:13 pookleblinky [~pooklebli@cpe-67-252-140-159.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:16:55 Pholious [~91750799@gateway/web/freenode/x-amvdovqydepgjqqi] has joined #lisp 11:17:35 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 11:18:07 -!- pookleblinky [~pooklebli@cpe-67-252-140-159.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:19:04 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 11:19:04 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Client Quit] 11:19:54 -!- quotemstr [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: quotemstr] 11:20:53 synthase [~synthase@adsl-220-182-234.mob.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 11:21:16 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:21:49 dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:23:16 Does anyone understand the error I just posted on pastebin? the format alone prints out file, although, when I use write-string it generates an error 11:23:58 oh the bot doesn't seem to paste it, it should be at http://paste.lisp.org/+23Y4 11:24:29 you didn't specify the channel 11:24:41 oh my bad :D 11:24:43 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:25:59 format t returns nil 11:26:00 well, there are numerous problems with this code 11:27:08 it opens a file without using a stream and without closing a stream 11:27:21 ahh, so the array in the error message is based on the array or chars then? 11:27:32 it's probably from write-string 11:27:42 yeah still need to close it, but figured first check if the printing works :D 11:28:21 pookleblinky [~pooklebli@cpe-67-252-140-159.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:29:14 the printing does work, then returns a nil to write-string, blowing it up 11:29:59 see http://paste.lisp.org/display/98428#1 11:30:06 aahh ok makes sense, and a normal print is just skipped, but write-string is expecting an array of chars 11:30:17 well, they're still problems, like modifying state 11:32:26 ahhh, with-open-file, adding in the stream, nice 11:32:36 will check that out a bit more, thanks a lot guys 11:33:13 with-open-file also makes sure that the file is closed afterwards, no matter what happens 11:33:55 oh, very nice! 11:34:22 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 11:34:43 and the most horrible problem: why do processing in Java? 11:35:27 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:35:36 hmm, I understand what #+foo and #-foo is, but what does #!+foo mean? 11:35:56 ignotus: that's specific to the sbcl build process 11:36:16 haha yeah I should have taken that comment out, but working on an internship, I am used to java and the whole project is set up by java classes and interfaces, so this specific API is only offered in Lisp, so trying to grab its data and fit it into the same java model 11:36:21 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 11:36:23 to distinguish between features of the host compiler 11:36:41 stassats: thanks 11:36:43 people here don't know Lisp and they don't want to study it just for this one API, so they want me to swap backto java asap 11:38:20 -!- debiandebian [~chatzilla@ntszok008047.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:39:17 ignotus: the same with package names 11:39:33 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 11:45:07 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:45:30 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 11:48:40 -!- pookleblinky [~pooklebli@cpe-67-252-140-159.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:50:40 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 11:51:36 tbug [~tboeglin@ns.blissgarden.org] has joined #lisp 11:53:10 Devon [~devon@c-98-216-157-52.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:53:17 folks, can lisppaste support TeX? that's about the only language I miss from time to time. 11:54:17 yes, you can paste TeX 11:54:40 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 11:55:16 pookleblinky [~pooklebli@cpe-67-252-140-159.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:55:28 with syntax highlighting? 11:55:37 without 11:55:59 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:57:38 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@e194-114.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:59:59 that's what I meant. support the syntax highlighting of TeX code. 12:00:06 -!- necroforest [~jarred@pool-71-191-247-161.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:04:45 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 12:06:27 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 12:06:59 -!- schoppenhauer [~senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:08:22 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:08:24 attila_lendvai [~ati@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 12:10:12 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dfn189.rz.tu-ilmenau.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 12:10:27 -!- christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:14:17 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 12:14:33 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 12:15:17 nurv [nurv@83.231.85.133] has joined #lisp 12:15:23 Hi. 12:15:57 Hello nurv. 12:16:02 hi nurv 12:20:17 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has joined #lisp 12:21:23 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.12.21] has joined #lisp 12:22:58 -!- ignotus [~ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has left #lisp 12:25:38 carlocci [~nes@93.37.192.137] has joined #lisp 12:26:24 Hi, beach, Pholious. 12:29:02 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:29:32 kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-52.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 12:32:10 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:32:35 stassats: here? 12:32:39 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-153-248.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:32:40 yes 12:33:37 Would be nice if M-x slime-info would open slime's info file, and if that's not built already query the user to build it 12:34:11 davertron [~Dave@vt-sb-1.logicsupply.com] has joined #lisp 12:34:28 hmmm, is `?\"' the wrong way to comment out a " inside a string/format ? 12:34:43 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 12:34:54 "\"Hello World\"" 12:34:58 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.18.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:35:21 oh, hmm this site must been tricking me then, said something like this: `?\ ' is the way to write the space character. If the character is `\', you must use a second `\' to quote it: `?\\'. 12:35:24 lol :D 12:35:43 Pholious: the site might be talking about emacs lisp. 12:35:54 Pholious: This channel is for Common Lisp. 12:36:00 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 12:36:17 tcr: sounds good 12:36:27 oh, never realized they were so different, I am on common as well yeah :) 12:36:32 In Emacs Lisp, ?\ used to be the only way to do that but now ?\s is allowed. Emacs Lisp is more like MacLisp than Common Lisp. 12:37:12 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:37:35 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:38:06 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 12:38:46 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:39:17 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 12:39:29 aahh ok Devon, cheers 12:39:57 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:40:28 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:41:01 you guys find it hard to create GUIs with Common Lisp by the way? only my third day on Lisp but quite starting to like Lisp as well :D 12:41:10 Emacs Lisp ?\ ==> 32 and ?\s ==> 32; Common Lisp #\Space is a character constant and (char-code #\Space) is probably 32. 12:41:57 Pholious: what are you using to write your GUI in? 12:42:14 and #\ and #\Space are eql. i think using #\ in code would be pretty obnoxious to read. 12:42:26 Pholious: i think the definition of hard be different for "third day" and "third year" 12:42:28 necroforest [~jarred@pool-71-191-247-161.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:42:47 madnificent: nothing yet, just getting used to the basics. But originally I work with java. Java Swing is really easy to use and I am somewhat scared it's going to be a lot tougher in Lisp 12:43:08 yeah, more in comparison to Swing, if anybody is familliar with that of course :) 12:44:27 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:45:22 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 12:45:22 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:45:58 *madnificent* knows Swing (and AWT too :)) 12:46:07 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 12:46:32 Slime renders #\Space as #\ for me using CMUCL, that's awful. 12:46:55 Devon: "renders"? 12:47:08 I like LispWorks CAPI for GUIs in Lisp. 12:47:21 Devon: I vaguely remember that being a requirement of the spec for printing #\Space. 12:47:24 It's only available for LispWorks, but really nice. 12:47:38 Really? Ugh! 12:47:58 It depends on what flags you use on ~C 12:48:03 If an API slighly less lispy is also an option, Qt is an excellent choice. 12:48:48 Xach: I doubt it. Lispworks prints #\Space if you type in #\ 12:48:50 (Or GTK+. Or Tk through LTK. So many options.) 12:49:09 rrice [~rrice@76.211.6.129] has joined #lisp 12:49:48 ooo, plenty of reading up to do I see ;) 12:50:11 mal__: I wouldn't be surprised if LispWorks is not conformant in that regard, but I'm also not finding the requirement I vaguely rememberd after a quick search. 12:50:51 it might also depend on the various settings of *print-...* 12:51:37 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:51:46 mal__: Ah, it's in 22.1.3.2 12:51:59 Oh, maybe not. /me reads more. 12:52:14 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 12:52:23 Ah, yes. 22.1.3.2 seems to me to mandate printing #\Space as #\ . 12:52:25 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 12:52:25 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:52:44 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:53:10 yes you're right. 12:53:27 -!- jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:53:35 jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 12:54:25 bah who can put up with such gratuitously incompliant implementations 12:54:45 *Xach* chants "boycott! boycott!" 12:56:22 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 12:57:43 minion: chant 12:57:43 MORE IN COMPARISON 13:00:01 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:00:06 horrible 13:00:29 it took all of half a minute to override the print-object to make it compliant 13:01:24 mal__: this is rediculous, I'm moving back to mars! 13:02:01 LOL, how many backslashes can dance on the head of a sharpsign? 13:02:01 do planets get a capital in english? Making it Mars instead of mars? 13:02:11 mal__: is it conformant to defin print-object on built-in types? 13:03:05 stassats: no 13:03:15 strictly forbidden 13:03:35 *mal__* looks guiltily around and expects the CL police to break down the door any second 13:03:43 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:04:22 mal__: forbidden where? 13:05:30 11.1.2.1.2.19 13:05:32 -!- dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:05:37 clhs 11.1.2.1.2.19 13:05:37 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for 11.1.2.1.2.19. 13:05:45 clsh 11.1.2.1.2.1 13:05:48 damn 13:06:28 clsh 11.1.2.1 13:06:36 clsh 11.1.2.1.2 13:06:50 i've heard clsh is awesome 13:07:08 clhs 11.1.2.1.2 13:07:09 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/11_abab.htm 13:07:18 mal__: i've opened it already, thanks 13:07:39 i knew it was somewhere there, and been searching for it recently, but couldn't find 13:08:06 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-6-220.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:08:26 Not forbidden. Undefined. 13:08:55 then what's forbidden by CLHS? 13:09:31 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:10:09 mal__: well, you can still modify readtable dispatch 13:10:09 ./clbuild update sbcl; ./clbuild update slime; ./clbuild compile-implementation sbcl; ./clbuild slime; => error Symbol "GETPID" not found in the SB-POSIX package. ;_; 13:11:06 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:11:33 madnificent: that's impossible! 13:11:49 -!- patrickmclaren [~user@ppp118-209-227-6.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:12:21 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 13:12:36 stassats: what should I do? Wait for a few days? 13:13:21 madnificent: GETPID wasn't going anyway from SB-POSIX recently, and it's still there 13:14:20 madnificent: are you sure that's the latest sbcl? 13:14:41 stassats: clbuild should give me the latest sbcl, no? 13:14:58 i don't use clbuild and don't know 13:15:02 madnificent: I compiled sbcl on linux just fine 1h ago 13:15:14 with clbuild that is 13:15:21 seems to be sbcl 1.0.37.72 13:15:47 somecodehere [~ingvar@77-233-95-4.televork.ee] has joined #lisp 13:16:06 chobot [~hellkrel@2001:718:802:c0d2:21e:37ff:fecb:baa0] has joined #lisp 13:16:07 can you run it and do (require 'sb-posix) (find-symbol "GETPID" 'sb-posix) ? 13:16:54 ; loading system definition from 13:16:54 ; /home/udzinari/src/clbuild/target/lib/sbcl/sb-grovel/sb-grovel.asd into 13:16:54 ; # 13:16:54 ; registering # as SB-GROVEL 13:16:59 ("SB-POSIX" "SB-GROVEL" "ASDF") 13:17:10 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:17:19 and mine is 37.72 yes 13:17:30 udzinari: not you, unless you're experiencing the same problem 13:17:43 stassats: ups, sorry 13:17:43 and don't paste here next time 13:17:57 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:18:20 udzinari: yes, it does that, and then it loads the fasls for that from the home dir. and then it says: failed to find the TRUENAME of /home/madnificent/.fasls/sbcl-1.0.37.72-linux-x86-64/home/madnificent/bin/apps/lisp/clbuild/target/lib/sbcl/sb-posix/constants.lisp-temp 13:18:45 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:18:47 stassats: sb-posix doesn't load because of that 13:18:56 billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 13:18:56 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Changing host] 13:18:56 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 13:19:20 are you using asdf from sbcl? 13:19:47 sounds like asdf-binary-locations doing something fishy 13:20:05 stassats: it uses the correct asd file (and yes, that's clbuild's asd file) 13:20:27 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:20:29 asd may be correct, but ASDF itself 13:20:56 I think clbuild always uses its own asdf 13:21:17 it places fasls not where sbcl expects to find them 13:21:44 dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:22:19 stassats: it puts the fasls in my home-dir in ~/.fasls/sbcl-implementation-version/ and I've removed that directory to see if it rebuilt it (and it does) 13:22:26 -!- pookleblinky [~pooklebli@cpe-67-252-140-159.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:22:27 and it tries to load the fasls from there 13:22:33 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 13:22:33 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 13:22:47 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.123.239] has joined #lisp 13:23:04 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 13:23:51 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.123.239] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:24:10 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:24:41 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 13:24:48 pookleblinky [~pooklebli@cpe-67-252-140-159.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:24:48 -!- synthase [~synthase@adsl-220-182-234.mob.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:25:21 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:25:37 *stassats* looks at asdf code, looks like someone has been saving on newlines there in some places 13:25:52 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 13:26:32 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:27:03 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 13:27:27 -!- ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:27:42 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:27:45 hello, just a short question: In CFFI how "typedef struct Evas_Object" should be binded ? 13:28:13 *"typedef struct _Evas_Object Evas_Object" 13:28:14 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 13:28:53 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:29:24 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 13:29:32 kiuma: what do you mean ? 13:29:53 synthase [~synthase@adsl-220-175-182.mob.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 13:30:04 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:30:35 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:30:38 Hi fe[nl]ix, I'm trying my first tow with CFFI 13:30:43 *toy 13:31:25 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-esbjcrpugkcdpcov] has left #lisp 13:31:37 tsuru [~user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:43 I want to try http://trac.enlightenment.org/e/wiki/Elementary 13:32:43 I wonder what should I do with "Evas_Object *win; win = elm_win_add(NULL, "hello", ELM_WIN_BASIC);" 13:32:47 derrida [~derrida@unaffiliated/deleuze] has joined #lisp 13:33:14 udzinari: could it matter how old the clbuild itself is? (A few months, I guess) 13:33:47 do I have to map 1-1 Evas_Object with CFFI ? is it mandatory ? 13:33:59 I'm in the dark 13:35:04 I think _Evas_Object is inside a .c file so, should I get the sourcecode too ? 13:35:16 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 13:36:06 kiuma: in that example you're only using pointers 13:37:05 for what I see yes 13:37:46 I'm starting with the hello world (I'm a newbie :) ) 13:39:04 fiveop [~fiveop@dfn189.rz.tu-ilmenau.de] has joined #lisp 13:40:08 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.123.239] has joined #lisp 13:40:11 stassats: I do override print-object for readtables in named-readtables; mostly works (modulo package locks), except in ECL where the new definition just ignored. 13:40:29 kiuma: you might try looking at how other projects have done cffi bindings... cl-opengl is one and I think I remember seeing a cffi-clutter on github... I don't know how mature the latter is but reading others code is probably where you want to start. 13:41:05 thx I'll do that 13:42:02 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 13:43:09 madnificent: I guess it can 13:43:41 madnificent: I compiled with fresh one 13:46:31 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:46:46 -!- fnordus [~dnall@70.70.0.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:47:02 fnordus [~dnall@70.70.0.215] has joined #lisp 13:53:44 blandest [~blandest@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 13:53:56 -!- Intensity [srHHiEBCle@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:55:37 dysinger [~dysinger@cpe-98-150-133-209.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:55:56 -!- fnordus [~dnall@70.70.0.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:56:26 rtra [~rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #lisp 13:56:59 zoldar [~zoldar@ip6.ima.pl] has joined #lisp 14:00:44 So I wonder why do people come to the idea to put money into clozure, but not into other open source projects slime sbcl or slime? 14:01:47 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.123.239] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:01:59 -!- synthase [~synthase@adsl-220-175-182.mob.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:02:00 first guess : because common lisp is scary, because there's already money involved in various commercial lisp env, and because it's not new/trendy/hype 14:02:04 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:02:06 that's more clear from their web site? 14:02:08 felidon [~user@12.228.15.162] has joined #lisp 14:02:53 I'd think it's indeed a matter of presentation. Product vs. free offer 14:02:54 tcr: my impression is that it's because of the nice integration with Cocoa and the IDE 14:03:05 tcr: good support for Macs ? :) 14:03:26 tcr: clozure culture and slime/emacs/sbcl culture have huge differences that may be important to some paying users. 14:03:52 also, clozure works on Windows 14:03:54 tcr: many seem long time Apple users who want clickable UIs 14:04:34 myu2 [~myu2@w179122.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 14:05:07 fe[nl]ix: I'm not trying to devalue the request, I think it may be reasonable, but I'm puzzled how comes people would think of the possibility to actually pay for it 14:05:15 blandest: somebody paid to make it work on windows, i suppose? 14:05:23 sbcl was working on windows before ccl 14:06:14 FSVO "working" 14:06:49 The question is wouldn't it perhaps have costed less putting the money into the existing sbcl windows port? 14:07:41 perhaps 14:09:51 fnordus [~dnall@70.70.0.215] has joined #lisp 14:12:00 Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 14:13:11 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:15:04 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:15:08 vtl [~user@rb5bi64.net.upc.cz] has joined #lisp 14:15:58 schoppenhauer [~senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 14:16:29 Krystof: I'm a bit disappointed by your telepathic debugging skills ;) 14:16:59 -!- jgracin [~jgracin@dh111-186.xnet.hr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:17:58 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 14:22:22 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-2-151-37.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:22:26 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:22:29 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:23:15 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:24:58 -!- NNshag [user@lns-bzn-61-82-250-117-21.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:25:00 -!- rtra [~rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:27:16 abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has joined #lisp 14:27:33 Joreji [~thomas@74-036.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:27:43 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 14:28:09 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:28:25 -!- cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 14:30:37 -!- ryepup [~user@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:31:07 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-nmeseutpfhamanll] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:33:59 pkhuong annotated #98417 "Alternatives" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98417#1 14:35:55 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:37:00 pkhuong: what, with the random compiler message and no clues? Sorry :-) I think if I had more than a few seconds of life at a time the telepathy wouldn't be too hard 14:37:04 NNshag [user@lns-bzn-20-82-64-19-164.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:37:14 -!- NNshag [user@lns-bzn-20-82-64-19-164.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:37:16 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-20-82-64-19-164.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:38:56 I considered waiting for a reduced test case, as an exercise in behaviourism. 14:39:16 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 14:39:21 -!- zoldar [~zoldar@ip6.ima.pl] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 14:40:06 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-34-36-194.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 14:40:35 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 14:41:17 -!- myu2 [~myu2@w179122.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:42:10 X-02 [~schopenha@p1059-ipbf409kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:42:22 in the end, pride won over? 14:43:10 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 14:43:11 netytan [~netytan@85.211.63.239] has joined #lisp 14:43:31 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:43:39 bah. wouldn't be good customer service ;) 14:45:13 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 14:46:09 It made for a stimulating shower anyway; the constant-lvar-p change is my fault, after all. 14:46:12 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:47:07 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 14:47:20 I know some purists will think this abominable but I'd like to abbrev (function (lambda (a b) (this (that a b)))) as #'(this (that * **)) and I wonder how to parse for variables without reimplementing all of eval. 14:48:31 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:48:52 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 14:49:06 parolang` [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 14:49:10 Devon: when you know how to do it, you won't want to do it any more. 14:49:27 I'm all for lambda macros, really gotta get those into sbcl 14:49:41 need more excuses to go the fun route 14:49:53 there is LAMBDA macro already 14:50:14 Xach: you were denounced by your fellow lisper yesterday, when I asked for help designing posters for the BLM that I could post in local university CS departments... 14:50:30 -!- wasabi [~wasabi@nttkyo951103.tkyo.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:50:54 Fare: I'm sure it was justified. I'm a pretty terrible person! 14:51:13 *Xach* has not even ascended in nethack once 14:51:20 stassats: and yet, the LAMBDA macro isn't a lambda macro. 14:51:25 not even by scumming save files? 14:51:30 Devon: You could generate something like (lambda (&optional * ** *** **** *****) ) Then you wouldn't have to parse the body. 14:51:52 stassats: http://coding.derkeiler.com/Archive/Lisp/comp.lang.lisp/2004-10/1997.html 14:52:02 keep in mind that *, **, and *** are special 14:52:16 We need more macro kinds, unfortunately april 1st is gone already otherwise I'd propse number-macrolet again 14:52:21 _ __ and ___ may work better ;) 14:52:36 tcr: a la let 1 + 1 = 3 in ...? (: 14:52:37 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 14:52:38 * and ** etc are traditional in the REPL 14:52:46 I would suggest morse code, but having only dots makes the reader unhappy. 14:52:53 Devon: which is why they're specials. 14:52:59 Xach: can your toys help create PDF for posters? 14:53:04 pkhuong: wait, that's actually valid haskell, ain't it? 14:53:29 Davidbrcz [david@212-198-83-2.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 14:53:32 Beach: cool 14:53:39 tcr: yup. 14:53:54 Fare: hmm, not directly. however, one of them can make a very, very big PNG with constrained (i.e. for printing) dimensions 14:53:56 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dfn189.rz.tu-ilmenau.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 14:53:59 pesky mathematicians 14:54:17 Fare: http://wigflip.com/automotivator/ can do it 14:54:39 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 14:55:08 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 14:55:52 tcr: I'm thinking hygienic macros. 14:56:20 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has left #lisp 14:56:57 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 14:57:18 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 14:57:23 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.133.91] has joined #lisp 14:57:55 and then allowing macro-expanders for standard special operators. The hygiene system could protect against both accidental capture and unintended circular expansion. 14:57:57 -!- ASau` [~user@77.246.231.80] has quit [Quit: off] 14:58:14 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.133.91] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:58:53 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.133.91] has joined #lisp 14:59:21 -!- jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit [Quit: Boot me gently] 14:59:52 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:00:37 So, in something like Vecto, all the drawing functions need a reference to a canvas, but none of them accept it explicitelly, rather they are wrapped in a (with-canvas ...) block. Scoping wise, what's the best way to do that other then by using globals? 15:00:57 pkhuong: Personally, I don't think hygienic macros is an issue for me... what I'd like it a MOP of lambda-lists. Especially &body clauses, where clauses start with a keyword (a la defpackage) is fairly common, but you have to do the parsing yourself. 15:00:58 a global IS the proper way to do that 15:00:59 Arelius: specials are ideal. 15:01:06 kpreid: Nah 15:01:13 pkhuong: specials? 15:01:19 Arelius: to do what? 15:01:31 Arelius: you evidently don't know CL's dynamic binding semantics 15:01:36 well 15:01:38 Arelius: CL doesn't have global variables. 15:01:44 (with-X X (functions-that-use-X-implicitlly)) 15:01:51 kpreid: Indeed I don't 15:01:56 I suppose you COULD make a (with-foo) that was lexically scoped, but that would be unusual 15:02:14 Arelius: specials. 15:03:11 Searches aren't being particularlly helpful in regard to "specials" 15:03:22 kpreid: Rather then dynamically scoped? 15:03:23 kpreid: well, for DSLs that try to enforce static invariants syntactically (mostly), it makes sense. 15:03:23 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-11-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:03:34 tcr: you should have come to the PLT macro talk by Ryan Culpepper -- maybe you can find interesting stuff on his page. Good "MOP" for developing macros declaratively. 15:03:38 kpreid: code-walker, adding a parameter to each function call? (however that parameters has then, of course, also be passed down to subroutines in the implementation of the functions) 15:03:46 pkhuong: sure, and anything with its own syntax like with-html-output 15:04:41 clhs special 15:04:42 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/d_specia.htm 15:04:47 Arelius: Consult a good book about Common Lisp 15:04:47 should be in its index 15:04:47 kpreid: Indeed, so would a code walking macro be the best way to do such lexically? 15:04:57 pkhuong: thx 15:05:04 Arelius: muh. 15:05:06 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279632868.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:05:16 Arelius: definitely, unless you have special syntax 15:05:28