00:00:04 heyhey: There is a feud between all Lisp dialects, especially the ones that are most similar to each other. 00:00:06 <_6502_> talking about macros... is there an official test suite for quasi-quoting (more specifically nested quasi-quoting) ? 00:00:26 but schemers seem quite proud of continuations.... 00:00:43 :) Makoryu 00:00:58 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:01:16 heyhey: These days, people playing with continuations are as likely to be using the continuation monad in Haskell as they are to be using any dialect of Scheme 00:01:31 s/playing/working/, if you like 00:01:58 <_6502_> ahhhhhhhhhh 00:02:09 <_6502_> s/playing/working/ is vi!!!! 00:02:12 <_6502_> kill him! 00:02:26 there's always cl-cont if you want to play around with em 00:02:46 ok, italic 00:04:03 _6502_: Right, sorry..... (funcall (lambda () (interactive) (save-cursor-position (replace-interactively (find-in-buffer "playing") "working")))) 00:04:17 <_6502_> hehehe 00:05:16 <_6502_> i think that a citation of PERL would have been sufficient :-) 00:05:28 -!- cid` [~cid@178-25-28-89-dynip.superkabel.de] has left #lisp 00:05:29 *_6502_* read somewhere lispers like perl 00:05:34 Nested backquote? Nobody does that... 00:05:49 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:05:56 Heh. I lost all my perl-fu at some point over the past couple of years. 00:06:31 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 00:06:46 But Perl doesn't $STRAWMAN_ARGUMENT_ABOUT_INTERACTIVE_PROGRAMMING! 00:07:11 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 00:08:06 bigjust` [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 00:08:07 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:09:24 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:09:55 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 00:09:58 -!- bigjust [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:11:06 palter_ [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:11:07 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:11:07 -!- palter_ is now known as palter 00:13:47 gigamonkey: By the way, "whither" means "to where" 00:15:08 that's not the only meaning of the word 00:15:32 Well, these days it isn't 00:15:54 I guess "whither" now means "where is" and "wherefore" just means "where" 00:16:11 it's also a synonym for "wither" 00:16:12 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:16:47 Since when? o_O 00:17:11 dunno, haven't looked up its etymology 00:17:15 <_6502_> on irc also for whiter, with-her and why there ? 00:17:48 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:18:08 -!- Lis [~Lis@dialbs-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 00:18:11 *_6502_* wonders why something can be whiter but not bluer 00:18:13 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0090-205-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 00:18:27 adeht: That's like saying that is a synonym for 00:20:20 hm, you're right there.. 00:22:17 *_6502_* suddenly realizes that tagbody/go won't be that easy to compile 00:22:20 To my knowledge, as recently as a hundred years ago everyone was still pronouncing and differently 00:22:29 But never mind that 00:22:40 _6502_: Wait, are you writing a compiler? 00:22:50 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0090-205-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:23:04 _6502_: they're no different than tailcalls. 00:23:11 <_6502_> makoryu: yes... a toy compiler for my toy lisp interpreter 00:23:11 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:23:17 wolgo [~user@69.59.130.52] has joined #lisp 00:23:37 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:23:58 <_6502_> pkhuong: i've to think about it... but it's 2:22am here, and tomorrow at 9am i'll have to fight with C++ :-) 00:23:59 lisp is a toy 00:24:04 kanja [~benbeeche@stu233-32.bard.edu] has joined #lisp 00:24:05 thats why none can properly implement it 00:24:05 hello. 00:24:08 <_6502_> lisp is THE toy :-) 00:24:53 s/t/j/ 00:24:54 <_6502_> makoryu: i'm a bottom-up type of guy... so to really understand lisp i need to implement at least a bit of it 00:25:03 Mmm 00:25:14 <_6502_> makoryu: i think a programmer should believe in no magic 00:25:47 I think that's discriminatory against Avatar otherkin! 00:25:48 _6502_: most of what I learned about the implementation details is from running the disassembler in the course of my normal user-space Lisp development 00:25:56 (and reading tons of the spec, as it's all interrelated) 00:26:20 -!- kanja [~benbeeche@stu233-32.bard.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:26:55 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0090-205-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 00:27:37 I had a nightmare my software was lisp powered 00:28:06 <_6502_> actually it is :-) 00:28:16 nooooooooooooo 00:28:24 <_6502_> assembler is not that far from lisp 00:28:31 lol yes it is 00:28:45 sse,regular opcodes etc... 00:28:47 _6502_: My method of understanding lisp was to write two different lisp machine emulators.. 00:28:50 nothin like lisp 00:28:52 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0090-205-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has left #lisp 00:28:54 I wouldn't say that. I'd say that the Lisp implementers have found effective translations from Lisp->asm that make a lot of sense 00:28:56 do humans think top-down or bottom-up? 00:29:05 both 00:29:22 <_6502_> for me bottom-up works best for learning and understanding 00:29:35 <_6502_> top-down is great for explaining what one knows 00:30:06 <_6502_> learning (or writing software) top-down doesn't really make much sense 00:30:12 <_6502_> (there is no top :-) ) 00:30:24 Hrm... Looks like my latest build bombed in the tests at thread.impure.lisp... 00:30:42 <_6502_> ok... sleeptime for me... tagbody will wait 00:30:53 _6502_: Sleep well. 00:31:06 (TAGBODY can GO away.) 00:31:10 <_6502_> bye all and thanx for tollerating me and my stupid questions :-) 00:31:10 you've got a lisp specification, an implemeentation specification/style, and a system to run it on. Those are 3 layers to connect, so top->bottom, or bottom->top really don't describe it 00:31:25 *nyef* is in favor of left->right. 00:31:41 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:31:58 I guess it depends on wether one is either more theoretically or more pragmatically inclined 00:32:01 -!- _6502_ [~andrea@dynamic-adsl-94-36-229-191.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: in university nowdays they teach top-up] 00:33:01 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 00:33:46 . o O (if they taught top-up, there might be the possibility that they might teach people how to abstract, which is sorely lacking across the board ) 00:33:46 Heh. 00:34:37 and what would be above the top? 00:34:51 It's a bit vaucous up there. 00:35:26 Ooh. I know why this test bombed out to LDB. It's a -backtrace- test, and I have the heap validator running. 00:38:19 -!- heyhey [~512beaf9@gateway/web/freenode/x-vtckmfsnmzfdxlqe] has left #lisp 00:41:08 rabuf [~user@ip68-230-168-93.mc.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:44:41 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 00:46:14 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:55:18 -!- italic [~italic@cpe-69-207-6-88.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:57:34 Guthur [~Michael@host213-122-221-177.range213-122.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 00:58:07 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:02:04 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-72-228-72-196.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 01:06:13 nyef: I have a fix for the ASH thing that also covers (ash [small negative value] -100). 01:14:19 daniel__ [~daniel@p5082CD0E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:14:19 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082CD0E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:15:38 pkhuong: At IR1 or IR2? 01:15:45 Lis [~Lis@dialbs-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 01:16:02 hi all. Is there a tutorial for lisp with tk? I am on clozurecl 01:16:44 minion: ltk 01:16:45 ltk: LTK is a Common Lisp Graphics Toolkit Library for Tk, which provides a complete CLOS binding to the Tk widget set. http://www.cliki.net/ltk 01:17:09 thanks 01:26:43 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 01:29:42 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.201.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:31:52 -!- hicx174 [~hicx174@211.187.100.115] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:33:12 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 01:34:03 get the latest version of ltk using # svn co http://ltk.rplay.net/svn/branches/ltk/repl ltk 01:35:41 hicx174 [~hicx174@211.187.100.115] has joined #lisp 01:38:41 daniel [~daniel@p5082CD0E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:38:57 -!- daniel__ [~daniel@p5082CD0E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:40:09 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 01:41:00 lithper1_ [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:44:43 -!- bigjust` is now known as bigjust 01:45:58 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:47:47 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 01:54:06 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 01:54:41 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 01:55:03 netytan [~netytan@85.211.63.239] has joined #lisp 01:57:35 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:58:06 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:04:51 -!- myu2 [~myu2@w179122.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:07:03 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:11:20 hm where do I need to copy the ltk files to compile them on openmcl? 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03:09:53 how does AI apply to brah-? 03:10:13 brah-: The tragicomical thing about the term AI is that it means completely different things in CS and popular culture 03:10:26 In CS, it means "clever search algorithms" 03:10:55 And lispy languages are great for exploring those 03:11:09 -!- timchen1` is now known as nasloc__ 03:11:11 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 03:11:17 I thought it meant artificial intelligence 03:11:38 which is ... search 03:11:38 brah-: Nope. "Artificial intelligence" does not in fact mean "artificial intelligence" except in science fiction. 03:12:19 i thought it meant "American Idol" 03:12:20 stassats, memo from tcr: Filtering out all worker threads in list-threads is not good if it's a worker thread that's gone crazy. 03:12:21 pkhuong: Nice. Early next release, then, and I'll do the fast-ash-left-c VOPs for PPC? 03:12:30 AI 03:12:35 clearly 03:12:42 it's an abbreviation... 03:13:08 Artificial intelligence (AI) is the intelligence of machines and the branch of computer science that aims to create it. 03:13:38 brah-: If you actually ascend the Academic Ivory Tower and take an AI class, you will see what I'm talking about. 03:13:40 pkhuong: And I just ran the test suite on an x86-64 linux with pre_verify_gen_0 set and verify_gens=0, and only had to disable one test case. 03:13:46 nice. 03:13:51 Good morning! 03:13:55 Makoryu: What do you think that AI means? 03:14:04 (Admittedly, I had to fix two major thinkos with the verifier, but that's a whole other issue.) 03:14:15 minion: memo for tcr: it doesn't filter all worker threads, only the current thread if its name is "worker" 03:14:15 Remembered. I'll tell tcr when he/she/it next speaks. 03:14:17 right. It should also let us simplify the x86 ASH VOPs... 03:14:23 phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 03:15:04 -!- rabuf [~user@ip68-230-168-93.mc.at.cox.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:15:27 Zhivago: The word "think" here is a bit ambiguous. Are you asking about what I want it to mean and what most people think it means, or are you asking about the meaning imparted to me by academia? 03:15:27 I think I'm going to have to issue a challenge on the mailing list to get the test suite failures down to -none- on x86/linux, keep them there, and improve the other targets to the same point. 03:15:37 what does "-c" suffix mean in VOPs? constant? 03:15:42 Zhivago: 'Cause I think I articulated both already 03:15:51 stassats: Yes. It means one of the arguments is a constant. 03:16:01 nyef: thanks 03:16:06 In the case of the ash vops, it means that the shift count is a constant. 03:16:08 brah-: Trolling again I see! 03:16:22 In the case of a comparison, it means that one of the args is constant. 03:16:34 In the case of an indexing operation, the index is constant. 03:16:38 And so on. 03:16:53 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:16:54 Makoru: You are wrong. 03:17:37 Zhivago: No, you are wrong. 03:17:52 The proof is left as an exercise to the listener. 03:18:29 Anyway, my plan for... probably wednesday, is to apply my gencgc validator fixes to PPC, enable them, and see how if/where it blows up. 03:19:39 my plan is to understand how SBCL emits particular instructions 03:20:28 while I'm hoping to flush some of my easy fix queue. 03:20:56 stassats: My recommendation is to look at DEFINE-BITFIELD-EMITTER, ignore how DEFINE-INSTRUCTION works, and just look at the emitter clauses. 03:21:14 pkhuong: I did mention I had one for bug-353 failures on x86oids, right? 03:22:09 And there's some nastiness around characters on PPC, and a small chunk of the external-format code is wrong for big-endian systems. All in my queue waiting for freeze to be over. 03:22:54 I have a really weird one: GCD can return negative values for bignums. 03:26:00 felideon [~felideon@adsl-2-97-200.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:28:41 Joy. 03:28:50 That in the test suite yet? ^_- 03:29:47 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.92.87.102] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:29:54 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 03:30:01 -!- blitz_ [~blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:30:30 nope. In my queue, test suite included, since late last summer. 03:38:35 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI_Winter 03:38:41 most of which was caused by lisp 03:38:52 so I see why it's not a primary language anymore 03:39:07 xb 03:39:17 that's cool they tried to make lisp specific hardware 03:39:40 and now lisp is onto harming software industry 03:40:06 nah, any top language lists i've seen in the last decade don't have lisp even on the list 03:40:10 so no worries there 03:40:11 ;D 03:40:35 it's been doing that for over 10 years by now, stassats :) 03:40:40 brah-: What is the point of these ramblings of yours? 03:41:49 beach: he feels lonely and bored 03:41:54 Bah. Lisp is on ESR's list of top languages, but he's a nutjob. 03:42:29 adeht: Yeah, but I would think he would have found a solution to that problem during the last two months, but no. 03:43:15 sounds like a lot of rage comin from beach, nothing new 03:43:19 rage and noise 03:43:33 ... never an op around when you need one. 03:43:51 I agree, because next time I come in here I don't want to see beach 03:44:08 i hope you couldn't come in 03:44:25 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-168-152-229.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:44:35 that's nice...real mature 03:45:01 brah-: Your mom is mature. 03:45:11 it's true! 03:45:22 brah-, what is your motivation for joing this channel? 03:45:42 s/joing/joining/ 03:45:51 making ai in lisp that can spell "joing" correctly, you? 03:46:25 Seriously, what's to gain? What's the interest? 03:46:42 His hostmask implies he's from Montenegro, but I think he's actually from Prague 03:46:56 so that he then can write in a blog "what a bunch of grumpy fifty year olds are in this channel" 03:47:29 Let him tell his own story. Making one up for him doesn't help. 03:47:40 there are some highly intelligent programmers in here of whom I respect and am interested in solely what they have to say, you few angry individuals are just the biproduct of waiting on such greatness 03:47:46 bad with the good 03:47:57 "Few?" 03:47:59 Please do not feed the troll. 03:48:00 yes 03:48:01 few 03:48:16 oddity you're not ignored until at which time I deem appropiate to remove you 03:48:19 now 03:48:34 So, do you think you gain the respect of these few by blathering with the masses? 03:48:59 I don't need their respect to learn from their wisdom 03:49:06 directly or indirectly 03:49:15 read the logs! 03:49:43 but you are correct, arguing with you is counterproductive 03:50:10 granted I didn'st start this, beach did, and you butted in, hence i'm ending it 03:50:14 Don't you want to ask questions of the wise? Won't they ignore a perceived troll? 03:50:44 the wise aren't on, and you don't dare disturb them when they don't wish to be disturbed 03:50:50 that's not how it works 03:51:13 Could you enlighten me as to who the elite are? 03:51:42 you can probably guess who the elite are among you, and who i'm referring to 03:51:58 i know, it's minion! 03:52:14 minion: Are you one of the elite? 03:52:15 no 03:52:22 No; I seriously can't. Giga? Nyef? 03:52:43 xach? xof? 03:52:48 what purpose do you seek by learning of those whom i've come to learn from? 03:52:54 Clearly, he means gigamonkey 03:53:04 if it's to antagnoize or otherwise annoy them, I need not tell you 03:53:14 Right, that's it. 03:53:44 Believe me, I won't bother anyone on your list -- I won't even mention you to them. I'm just curious who's worth hanging around for. 03:53:55 I'm gone. I will not be on tomorrow, as I'll be heading towards boston in the morning. 03:54:08 sweet.. NEU? 03:54:11 I might not be on the day after, either. 03:54:41 'night nyef. 03:54:41 you're going to the secret meeting of the elite? 03:54:49 NEU, WVH 366, 6pm. 03:55:06 hope to see you there. 03:55:15 'night nyef. 03:55:16 stassats: The not-so-secret meeting of the elite is right -after- BLM. 03:55:38 G'night all. 03:55:46 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-133-216.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: Sleep beckons...] 03:55:55 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-205-245.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:57:17 potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f661321-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 03:58:31 Makoryu: he's just a kid with access to an epicshells bnc 04:00:12 adeht: Gotcha 04:00:37 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 04:01:14 I have some logs of him from some place else, as well 04:03:33 lives in Washington 04:06:06 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:06:56 -!- OmniMancer 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[~reprore@p4b216c.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:37:35 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:41:46 -!- reprore [~reprore@p4b216c.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:41:59 -!- nuntius [~nuntius@c-71-232-15-233.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:42:13 reprore [~reprore@p4b216c.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:42:38 BrianRice` [~water@c-76-115-44-87.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:42:47 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.] 04:42:48 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-205-245.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:43:35 -!- lithper1_ [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.9/20100401213457]] 04:44:49 -!- BrianRice [~water@c-76-115-44-87.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:44:49 -!- BrianRice` is now known as BrianRice 04:45:50 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 04:46:46 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 04:46:46 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 04:48:52 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 04:56:04 -!- Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Absquatulandus sum] 05:00:20 freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 05:01:34 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has joined #lisp 05:01:37 Is there a rule that the predicate must be applied to element starting at the end if :from-end is t in functions such as find-if? 05:01:40 -!- segmond [~seg@adsl-99-36-230-247.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:02:04 seg_ [~seg@adsl-99-29-144-168.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:02:27 -!- nunb [~nundan@122.162.138.14] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:02:32 Though I guess it would be wasteful to do otherwise, because the predicate might be costly. 05:02:40 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.12.21] has joined #lisp 05:03:56 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-mapzcxabbzowkyzc] has joined #lisp 05:05:56 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-16-247-61.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:06:25 but it's unspecified 05:06:44 Dunno, is there a rule that the predicates must be applied to the element starting at the beginning if :from-end is nil? 05:07:35 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 05:07:42 on lists it makes sense to traverse from the beginning and return the last element which satisfies the test 05:08:01 true. 05:08:06 (find 6 '(1 2 6 4 5 6 7 8 9) :from-end t :test #'equalp :key #'print) 05:08:14 prints all from 1 to 9, on sbcl 05:08:33 (find 6 #(1 2 6 4 5 6 7 8 9) :from-end t :test #'equalp :key #'print) prints only 9 8 7 6 05:08:47 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:09:50 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-16-247-61.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:09:58 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:10:27 i guess all sane implementations will do the same on lists 05:10:53 because it's hard to traverse them backwards 05:12:01 stassats: I don't see the difference between your examples. 05:12:27 on what implementation? 05:12:32 Oh, sorry, vector/list. 05:12:54 stassats: I just didn't parse the difference between list and vector notation. 05:12:57 Sorry. 05:13:02 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-1-181.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 05:13:47 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 05:14:36 allegro parses from the end 05:15:08 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-83-55.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 05:15:29 and it conses, obviously 05:15:39 Obviously? 05:15:40 so it's the usual "space/time trade-off" 05:15:59 lithper1_ [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 05:16:26 beach: how would you traverse a singly linked list backwards without additional storage? 05:16:38 stassats: Use the recursion stack. 05:17:00 stack size is limited 05:17:16 I just gave the method. 05:17:36 it is fine, but unsuitable 05:17:55 -!- lithper1_ [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:17:59 stassats: The other method worries me as well though, because the predicate might be costly. 05:18:10 beach: can't win them all 05:18:15 Indeed. 05:19:34 and you shouldn't be using lists in the first place if you want to do such operations 05:20:09 stassats: True, so then it doesn't matter whether you use the recursion stack, consing, or applying the predicate from the beginning. 05:22:27 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:26:04 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-205-245.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:26:36 Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-198-195.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:27:50 So what would be a typical stack-size limit? 05:29:04 bozhidar` [~user@212.50.14.187] has joined #lisp 05:29:53 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 05:33:14 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Disconnected by services] 05:33:44 -!- bozhidar` is now known as bozhidar 05:35:10 Davidbrcz [david@212-198-83-2.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 05:36:47 jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 05:37:15 -!- rtra [~rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:38:37 Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 05:40:10 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 05:42:11 -!- Davidbrcz [david@212-198-83-2.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:44:04 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping 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[~user@nat/redhat/x-gnukvpyjsnfldahv] has joined #lisp 06:44:25 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 06:45:23 -!- lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 06:46:44 -!- konr [~user@201.82.134.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:49:36 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 06:50:15 konr [~user@187.106.48.61] has joined #lisp 06:51:49 -!- cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 06:55:33 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-kdykqdgsvuhrfmfa] has joined #lisp 06:56:54 lharc [~shrek@88.131.67.194] has joined #lisp 07:00:28 -!- myu2_ [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:00:44 cgarcia [~user@c-67-162-221-78.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:00:56 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:01:14 good morning 07:01:36 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 07:02:14 mishoo [~mishoo@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:04:07 ASau` [~user@77.246.230.238] has joined #lisp 07:04:49 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0090-205-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 07:05:13 hello mvilleneuve 07:05:59 mvilleneuve: Lots of new SICL improvements in case you have gaps in your calendar. 07:09:44 -!- ironChicken [~richard@mx.slab.org] has quit [Quit: Terminated with extreme prejudice - dircproxy 1.0.5] 07:10:12 beach: I've seen the email exchanges, I'll look at all that today. 07:10:30 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-52.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:10:39 No rush. 07:10:41 I may not do much this week though (lots of work, and a bit sick) 07:10:49 OK 07:10:59 Sorry to hear that! (both of the problems). 07:10:59 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.66.209] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:14:48 Are you still planning to show up tonight? 07:15:14 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:16:14 mvilleneuve: Just got your email. Some other time I guess. 07:16:24 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:18:34 -!- randa [~randa@94.99.50.84.sta.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:19:06 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:19:12 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 07:24:32 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755d11.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:25:58 abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 07:26:51 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:27:17 beach: sure! 07:29:13 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@g229083235.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 07:29:57 -!- cgarcia [~user@c-67-162-221-78.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:36:05 Soulman [~kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 07:36:46 anair_84 [~anair_84@ip68-108-251-45.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:39:05 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-9-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:39:58 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:47:53 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 07:52:01 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:58:11 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 07:59:16 ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has joined #lisp 08:04:56 fiveop [~fiveop@dfn189.rz.tu-ilmenau.de] has joined #lisp 08:06:04 attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 08:06:57 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-135-10.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: night] 08:11:23 -!- plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-20-43.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:13:28 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 08:15:00 stassats: Ok sorry for the noise 08:15:00 tcr, memo from stassats: it doesn't filter all worker threads, only the current thread if its name is "worker" 08:15:05 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:15:11 than I must have been tricked by something else 08:16:35 minion: memo for nyef: I'm all for the test-suite-success-everywhere idea. In fact, it should be part of the process to get to a 1.1 release. 08:16:35 Remembered. I'll tell nyef when he/she/it next speaks. 08:17:35 -!- MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:23:06 -!- seg_ [~seg@adsl-99-29-144-168.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:24:32 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 08:26:20 Joreji [~thomas@68-025.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 08:27:05 Suczker [~sucker@fw.cro.cz] has joined #lisp 08:29:48 -!- easyE [aaGTdZretn@panix3.panix.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:31:13 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:32:55 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-9-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 08:33:17 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:34:00 *stassats* added 64-bit bswap vop to his swap-bytes 08:34:17 too bad i don't have a processor with SSSE3, it has an instruction for byte swapping 08:34:35 it would be interesting if sbcl was using sse not only for floats 08:35:01 -!- rapacity [~prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:35:01 -!- phryk [~phryk@yggdrasil.phryk.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:35:01 -!- franki^ [~franki@unaffiliated/franki] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:35:07 phryk [~phryk@yggdrasil.phryk.net] has joined #lisp 08:35:39 -!- brah- [brah@cant.synflood.me] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:35:40 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:35:40 -!- koning_r1bot [~aap@88.159.110.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:35:40 -!- kajic [~kajic@Psilocybe.Update.UU.SE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:35:44 koning_robot [~aap@88.159.110.31] has joined #lisp 08:36:14 brah- [brah@cant.synflood.me] has joined #lisp 08:36:17 rapacity [~prwg@li30-188.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 08:36:24 franki^ [~franki@unaffiliated/franki] has joined #lisp 08:41:02 kajic [~kajic@Psilocybe.Update.UU.SE] has joined #lisp 08:42:44 -!- konr [~user@187.106.48.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:43:01 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 08:43:55 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:45:14 freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 08:46:25 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 08:47:37 somecodehere [~ingvar@77-233-95-4.televork.ee] has joined #lisp 08:47:49 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 08:50:03 Is there a lisp tool which analyses two trees and outputs a diff of the inserts/removes/changes ? 08:50:41 -!- ComputerNewbie [~adsfasdf@c-67-180-200-131.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 08:55:05 CL-HTML-DIFF uses CL-DIFFLIB to achieve something like that on the tree of HTML elements. ISTR that it's effectively a sequence comparison on each level though. 08:56:00 lichtblau: thanks, I'll dig this 08:56:37 I believe that tree diff is still an active area of research 08:57:14 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:58:34 -!- laynor [~ale@93.107.138.174] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:58:41 i have a file named 'diff-sexp.lisp' in my lisp folder 08:58:42 Krystof: sure, there are some heuristics to choose. But I'm going to have almost only simple (but not only terminal ones), so any non trivial heuristics should work for me. 08:58:54 it has some pointers to related papers 08:59:18 i don't quite remember where i got the file from, though 08:59:46 but it is the first hit on google 08:59:48 http://www.foldr.org/~michaelw/lisp/diff-sexp.lisp seeems to be fine, thanks for "diff sexp" search suggestion 09:00:37 -!- Joreji [~thomas@68-025.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:00:39 * Support for moved subtrees 09:01:05 I guess that was the reason I didn't end up using diff-sexp.lisp back then. 09:01:41 (That's listed under "Todo" as a missing feature.) 09:03:37 Does anyone know something about michaelw? 09:03:51 it's ages I've seen him here 09:05:14 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 09:08:51 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:10:41 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 09:10:55 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:11:23 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 09:12:28 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.54] has joined #lisp 09:14:19 attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 09:15:43 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:16:12 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 09:21:01 Xantoz [~hejhej@c-9eb4e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 09:22:55 mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has joined #lisp 09:35:15 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-57-178.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:35:19 -!- Salamander_ is now known as Salamander 09:38:09 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 09:42:23 freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 09:44:12 -!- debiandebian [~chatzilla@ntszok008047.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:47:22 bigjust` [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 09:49:45 -!- bigjust [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:51:09 Pholious [~bla@dhcp-077-251-036-065.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 09:52:08 hey guys, is it possible to use collect for a lambda function inside a loop? 09:52:15 something like this: (setq reaction-names (lambda () (collect (get-name-string rxn)))) 09:53:15 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:53:46 Pholious: What are you trying to do? 09:54:21 'collect' doesn't make sense in that context for a number of reasons. 09:55:17 Phoodus: Nope you can't 09:55:30 Pholious: Nope you can't 09:55:43 With a better loop design it would make sense. 09:55:46 ITERATE can do it, or use a with-collect style macro 09:56:58 Pholious: You could do that in a macro. 09:57:28 -!- lharc [~shrek@88.131.67.194] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:57:50 beach pasted "for Pholious" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98357 09:58:11 Pholious: Then you can do something like (funcall (make-fun 1 2 3 4 5) 10) 09:58:48 -!- dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:59:42 beach: the paste looks cut out 09:59:56 Oops 10:00:45 beach annotated #98357 "Is this better?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98357#1 10:06:50 oops sorry guys, had to fix my breakfast :) 10:07:21 ah funcall, great let me try that :) 10:07:50 Pholious: The main point is that the function body is built at compile time, since it's a macro. 10:09:24 Hello! I have list '(1 2 1 2 ) and I'd like to push 3 before every 2 => '(1 3 1 3 2) Is there any function to do something like this? Or I have to write one? 10:09:48 aahh, but seeing my code I think there must be an easier way, I iterate over an array, then I wantto use the single values as an argument for another function, and add that output to a global array 10:09:51 -!- hypno [~hypno@impulse2.gothiaso.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 10:09:53 hypno [~hypno@impulse2.gothiaso.com] has joined #lisp 10:10:19 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 10:10:25 mrSpec: maybe you can use sublis for that 10:10:36 clhs sublis 10:10:36 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_sublis.htm 10:11:37 jao [~jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:12:52 antifuchs: ah, but I'd like to add new elements, not to change the old ones :S 10:13:14 mrSpec: I was under the impression that it can change the tree structure 10:13:37 beach annotated #98357 "make-fun as a function rather than a macro" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98357#2 10:13:42 I could very well have been wrong about your use case (: 10:14:02 you probably can code up a really quick LOOP form with a conditional collect that does this 10:14:24 -!- Aisling [ash@blk-222-192-36.eastlink.ca] has quit [Quit: ...] 10:14:40 mrSpec: (loop for element in list when (= element 2) collect 3 collect element) 10:15:55 Pholious: It would be better if you told us what it is you want to do. 10:16:02 no, It wont work, becouse i'd like to work on sublist, not the main list. I have something like '(a b c (1 2 1 2)) and in main function I call macro which adds something to this '(1 2 1 2) eg. push is working 10:16:23 but push do -> (a b c (3 3 1 2 1 2)) 10:16:38 s/do/does 10:17:19 mrSpec: (loop for element in sublist ...) 10:17:21 :P 10:17:34 hmm 10:17:47 maybe i was thinking to much :/ 10:17:49 unless you mean you need to retain shared structure 10:17:57 which seems unlikely 10:18:22 smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:18:42 that problem sounds too fishy 10:19:07 ok, I'll try paste some code 10:19:15 and you can push in the middle of a list 10:19:21 minion: cl-curl? 10:19:22 cl-curl: Cl-curl (website) is a networking Library. http://www.cliki.net/cl-curl 10:19:40 is it needed to create an empty array instance before being able to push values into it? if so, how do I create an empty array in lisp? :D 10:20:24 Pholious: () 10:20:28 oh wait 10:20:29 array? 10:20:33 I thought you were working with lists? 10:20:42 (let ((list (list 1 2 4 5))) (push 3 (cdr (member 2 list))) list) here you can push after 2, pushing before 2 is left as an exercise to the reader 10:21:20 leo2007: do you know about drakma? 10:21:27 oh yes I meant list, bit confusing, I am used to java ;) 10:21:41 stassats: no, never heard of it. what is it? 10:21:53 minion: please tell leo2007 about drakma 10:21:54 leo2007: look at drakma: Drakma is a fully-featured Common Lisp web client library that knows how to handle HTTP/1.1 chunking, persistent connections, re-usable sockets, SSL, continuable uploads, cookies, and other things. http://www.cliki.net/drakma 10:22:25 using it all the time, it's great 10:22:32 so I can just say (setf my-list (list ())) ? 10:22:52 you can, but is that what you want? 10:22:53 stassats: thanks for that. i think I'll like it better than cl-curl. 10:23:30 leo2007: and it's native lisp, except for SSL 10:23:35 well, I need a list to further on push values to, but not sure if the instance needs to be created first, or if it will be automatically created once I push values into a list 10:23:44 seems like a clear way though 10:24:22 you want destructively modify it? than it has to be a cons, right 10:24:32 you can't modify NIL 10:25:09 Pholious: (list ()) is a list containing an empty list. 10:25:44 while NIL is a list, it's not a cons 10:26:32 but I need to create a list first to put values in it later right? 10:26:36 Pholious: Lisp does not have an ADT for lists. Lists are just chained cons cells, or NIL. 10:26:42 I add values in a loop 10:26:56 Pholious: you need to create a modifiable data structure 10:27:02 mrspec pasted "too fishy tree problem" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98359 10:27:08 stassats: now installed. 10:27:09 aahh okay, my bad 10:27:17 Pholious: (let ((result 'nil) (dotimes (i 10) (push i result)) result) 10:27:33 Phoodus: What PUSH does is not to modify the list, but to assign to the RESULT binding 10:27:40 I hope this paste will make my problem more clearer :) 10:27:54 If you think of a (cons a b) as being an association between a and b, it might make more sense. 10:28:03 Lists are then chained associations. 10:28:07 Phoodus: Sorry, I keep on using your nickname rather than Pholious' 10:28:56 hmm, but I don't really want to make hash-like associations at the moment, just a list containing values obtained by a loop, gonan read up some more on list and cons though 10:28:57 So you have a kind of adt for lists on top of that -- list, list*, first, rest, null, etc. 10:29:10 These are 'hash-like' associations. 10:29:15 aren't. 10:29:19 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:29:23 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:29:23 I have been trying to create a emacs function to upload image to imagebin.org without using external curl tool. Can anyone point me to the right direction? 10:29:37 licoresse [~user@cm-84.209.103.64.getinternet.no] has joined #lisp 10:29:40 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 10:29:43 These are 'graph edge like' associations, I guess. 10:29:52 Guthur [~Michael@host213-122-221-177.range213-122.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 10:30:04 mrSpec: are you sure lists is the right data-structure for the task? 10:30:11 -!- jao [~jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has left #lisp 10:30:21 hehe alright, forgive me guys only using lisp for two days, it's kind of confusing for me still 10:30:26 stassats: I have list generated by cL-YACC 10:30:27 leo2007 pasted "upload" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98360 10:30:28 gonna read up some more on cons, cheers :) 10:30:32 leo2007: there's url-http which may also be able to POST, ask #emacs 10:30:44 so I have to use list 10:31:29 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:31:32 I have asked #emacs and haven't met someone able to help. 10:32:27 sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:33:36 mrSpec: you have? you can't process it later? 10:33:38 the sample code is in 98360. I wish someone can help me with this. It will be very helpful to collocate on the internet. 10:33:39 -!- smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:34:30 flip214 [~flip@office01.emerion.com] has joined #lisp 10:34:43 i can only help with drakma 10:34:46 smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:34:56 stassats: hmm do you think I should convert this list structure to something else? 10:35:03 what would be better? 10:35:38 stassats: drakma is excellent!!! I like it immediately. 10:35:56 mrSpec: a class or a structure, like (defstruct function-definition name specifiers body) 10:36:14 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:36:44 I'm using vim with slimv and sbcl. As soon as invoke-debugger starts sbcl reads input from the tty, and slimv doesn't work anymore. Should I just change *debug-io* (and/or *query-io*), or is there a better way? 10:36:56 och :/ I think I am too far ATM to change this :/ 10:37:33 flip214: what's slimv? 10:37:38 i only know slime 10:37:44 a vim plugin, like slime, but for vim 10:37:54 http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=2531 10:38:20 i'm afraid very few here would be able to help you with vim problems 10:39:03 but #vim won't really help with sbcl, I think ;-) 10:39:15 what's the best way to deal with the debugger in sbcl? 10:39:25 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 10:40:20 from Slime! 10:40:33 flip214: why not emacs? ;) 10:40:49 Aisling [ash@blk-222-192-36.eastlink.ca] has joined #lisp 10:41:01 flip214: i guess you'd do better by writing to the author of slimv 10:42:19 antifuchs: Do we have a room? 10:43:54 mrSpec: because I'm thoroughly used to vim, and it's preinstalled on most systems - emacs not. 10:44:01 stassats: I can try. 10:44:05 Thank you. 10:44:57 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 10:45:52 hello 10:46:12 hello fe[nl]ix 10:46:33 hej beach 10:46:54 *beach* registers for ELS. 10:47:50 yay! everyone: follow beach's example 10:48:03 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:48:24 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 10:48:49 My wife will as well :) 10:49:10 laynor [~892b9a51@gateway/web/freenode/x-zvigzixtkcyabkzl] has joined #lisp 10:49:26 Another question: I thought that in a defstruct I could declare the type of the elements: 10:49:31 (defstruct (name) (a :type 'fixnum)) 10:49:32 I left it too late unfortunately, flights, I have an exam a few days after so it's probably for the best 10:49:35 beach: your late registration will make Antonio very happy :-) 10:49:42 but that simply gives me an error: 10:49:44 error while parsing arguments to DESTRUCTURING-BIND: 10:49:46 odd number of elements in keyword/value list: ('FIXNUM) 10:49:58 I know! I hope to get reimboursed anyway. Might as well pay more. 10:50:01 I looked into cltl2, but couldn't find a problem with my declaration. 10:50:03 any ideas? 10:50:08 flip214: You can you need to give it a default value as well, I believe 10:50:31 and I think the type needs to be unquoted 10:50:40 flip214: and don't quote the type name 10:50:43 so (defstruct name (a 0 :type fixnum)) 10:52:26 -!- hypno [~hypno@impulse2.gothiaso.com] has left #lisp 10:52:45 Ah yes, thank you. I mis-read the [default] string in the documentation. 10:52:52 Thank you very much! 10:53:14 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:53:46 beach: you do (: 10:54:09 there's a nice hotel not far from where the wedding is, we reserved a double room for you 10:54:18 blitz_ [~blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has joined #lisp 10:55:04 ok, i got it to work now. cheers. 10:56:33 tfb_ [~tfb@212.183.140.54] has joined #lisp 10:57:56 -!- flip214 [~flip@office01.emerion.com] has quit [Quit: "thanks"] 10:58:57 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:00:00 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:00:27 -!- bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:00:38 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:02:07 dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:03:18 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:06:57 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has joined #lisp 11:07:17 antifuchs: Excellent! Thanks! 11:07:33 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 11:08:10 ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 11:13:00 debiandebian [~chatzilla@ntszok008047.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:13:09 quack [~quack@81.193.94.176] has joined #lisp 11:14:37 has anyone some experience about using common lisp to do some distributed/parallel development? 11:14:53 with mpi for example 11:17:03 -!- quack [~quack@81.193.94.176] has quit [Client Quit] 11:17:04 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:17:13 -!- tfb_ is now known as tfb 11:22:30 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:22:30 where can one read about SLIMEs history? 11:22:38 ChangeLog 11:26:10 üme remembers to send the els fax, but as it's too cumbersome, he keeps on working 11:26:34 *attila_lendvai* also remembers to switch back the keyboard layout... :) 11:27:57 seamus-android [~seamus-an@host86-180-16-151.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:28:05 heh! 11:28:14 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 11:29:13 -!- Guthur [~Michael@host213-122-221-177.range213-122.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Computer says no] 11:32:22 laynor: one of the blogs on planet.lisp had a wrap up about parallel computing in common lisp 11:33:20 *lisp? 11:33:20 randa [~randa@94.99.50.84.sta.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 11:34:00 Are there connection machines still around? 11:34:31 -!- seamus-android [~seamus-an@host86-180-16-151.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has left #lisp 11:38:00 -!- smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:38:07 -!- debiandebian [~chatzilla@ntszok008047.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:38:17 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 11:41:20 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:42:25 smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:43:33 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 11:43:34 -!- echo-area [~zhujun@114.251.86.0] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:43:46 attila_lendvai: please tell me that someone fixed cl-perec and deps so it doesn't die a horrible death if I load it? 11:44:15 jdz: I'll search for that thanks :) 11:44:31 p_l, the cl-perec repo is abandoned, we're working on hu.dwim.perec 11:44:49 p_l, http://dwim.hu has an install guide you can use for copy-pasting 11:45:27 attila_lendvai: I'm trying to reinstall it right now with that repo, but it seems like I'm going to stop "preferring Git over Darcs" to "hating Darcs with abandon" :/ 11:45:32 although we still use cl-perec in production, hopefully not too long 11:46:29 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:47:12 stassats: yeah. Problem is that, apart from a couple loops, I'm not sure what else could be vectorised... and I won't code loops in VOPs. So, those intrinsics should really make it in first. 11:47:13 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 11:47:20 attila_lendvai: looks like I'll have to drop by in library and reinstall all code with proper sources... 11:47:27 p_l, a darcs get is nothing more complicated than a git clone... but i still don't get why people don't value the out of order handling of patches. i can't get used to the lack of it in git... 11:47:53 attila_lendvai: there is support for patch-based management of source for git 11:48:16 attila_lendvai: and my issues with Darcs are because it seems to fail much more often, but it might be related to repositories I'm using... 11:48:24 -!- rapacity [~prwg@li30-188.members.linode.com] has quit [Changing host] 11:48:24 rapacity [~prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has joined #lisp 11:49:12 p_l, we have live systems where certain patches should not get out to. and i very much prefer to answer a few y/n questions to bothering with patch files 11:50:01 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-078-042-205-245.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 11:50:10 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:50:12 attila_lendvai: Well, I think the patch-queue system that runs, among other things, on top of git, would support something like that. 11:50:35 p_l, darcs is a PITA without having a good understanding of the model behind it. and then there are its bugs... :) but still, we're way too much used to the freedom of the patch order 11:51:35 but it's jyour projeproject :D 11:51:59 damn lag 11:52:33 -!- dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:53:02 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 11:54:34 quotemstr [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:55:04 Is (symbol-plist 'foo) allowed to share structure with the actual property list? 11:55:15 (If the property list is stored as a real list, that is.) 11:55:21 clhs symbol-plist 11:55:21 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_symb_4.htm 11:55:39 it is allowed 11:55:41 I checked the CLHS already; it doesn't say one way or the other. 11:55:49 Thanks. 11:57:33 if it doesn't say that it returns "a fresh list" or "a copy of a list", or something like that, then you shouldn't expect it to do that 11:57:50 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.12.21] has joined #lisp 12:00:50 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 12:01:07 martin` [~user@159.92.64.121] has joined #lisp 12:02:20 dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:03:45 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:08:24 is it considered "odd" to have multiple do's in one loop? 12:08:38 not really (: 12:08:44 ok great :D 12:08:51 Pholious: if they're consecutive, multiple do keywords are unnecessary 12:09:02 that is, do (foo) do (bar) can be do (foo) (bar) 12:09:22 oh, tried that, must have done something wrong then 12:09:25 thanks Xach 12:10:41 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-198-195.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:12:51 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-230-37.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 12:12:52 ah nice, works, forgot to remove the brackets from do itself as the functions now have their own :D 12:13:54 how does pastebin work here btw? do we whisper it to lisppaste or so? 12:14:20 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:14:20 Pholious: see topic 12:14:53 ahh, doh 12:15:39 Pholious pasted "test" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98365 12:15:46 oh, nice 12:15:54 don't bother on that one, just seeing how it works 12:16:00 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 12:16:15 Pholious: indentation and parenthesis placement are wrong 12:17:00 stassats: what do you mean by indentation? 12:17:44 coming from java indeed 12:18:02 Pholious: "indentation n. the space left between the margin and the start of an indented line" 12:18:03 hehe *blush* 12:18:52 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 12:19:09 ahw, is it ment to all stay in one row? 12:19:27 where it needs to be 12:19:55 Pholious: http://www.labri.fr/perso/strandh/Teaching/Langages-Enchasses/Common/Strandh-Tutorial/indentation.html 12:19:55 Pholious: emacs knows the Right Way :) 12:20:40 aahh alright, cheers guys 12:21:47 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 12:21:52 the only thing that emacs has trouble indenting (for me) is LOOP 12:22:09 the complex one, that is 12:22:10 jdz: even with slime's extensions? 12:22:20 yes, i might have missed an extension 12:23:06 with cl-indent-patches.el, it usually gets loop right for me 12:23:13 unclear copyright, though 12:23:14 Joreji [~thomas@71-255.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:23:27 cl-indent-patches may be the best reason to create an incompatible lisp dialect that I know. 12:23:28 antifuchs: Source? 12:23:51 I have a mirror at http://boinkor.net/lisp/cl-indent-patches.el 12:23:52 jdz: Have you considered switching to INDENT? 12:24:04 nobody of the probable copyright holders bothered to answer, afaik 12:24:11 quotemstr: i don't even know what that is 12:24:23 jdz: have you tried setting: lisp-loop-forms-indentation, lisp-loop-keyword-indentation & lisp-simple-loop-indentation? (I set them to 9, 9 & 6.) 12:24:26 antifuchs: There's an argument that every piece of elisp code is automatically GPLed because of Emacs' own license. 12:24:27 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-153-248.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:24:31 but i have not had enough trouble with indenting to investigate the options 12:24:44 jdz: Err, not INDENT, ITERATE. 12:24:46 It's still early. 12:24:46 quotemstr: I'm not even sure this started out as elisp (: 12:24:49 i indent all loop keywords the same 12:24:59 jdz: ehh.. 9, 6 & 6 that is 12:25:14 thanks for hte pointers guys 12:25:14 Yuuhi [benni@p5483D66E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:25:17 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:25:20 and not bothering getting it right or wright 12:25:41 davertron [~Dave@vt-sb-1.logicsupply.com] has joined #lisp 12:25:44 stassats: That's what I do too. It works out all right. 12:25:57 s/wright/wrong/ 12:26:41 or s/right/rong/ 12:27:17 mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-ldzpidtpwhoiqkyz] has joined #lisp 12:28:10 I don't even have a lisp-loop-forms-indentation here. 12:28:21 mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has joined #lisp 12:28:40 it's in cl-indent 12:28:54 tach 12:29:05 opps, wrong window 12:29:05 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-kdykqdgsvuhrfmfa] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:29:12 martin pasted "alpha test font rendering" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98367 12:30:02 I'm just experimenting with a method to render fonts in an opengl window. 12:30:49 martin`: very interesting. is that rendering of metafont fonts? 12:31:08 have you got a screenshot? 12:31:48 ah, pgm 12:32:47 which lisp version is adviced to use btw? saw Steel Bank Common Lisp and cusp etc 12:32:48 martin`: instead of using array-storage-vector, you can displace a rank-2 array on a vector. That's probably a slightly performance hit for accesses on the displaced array, but portable. 12:33:05 es bee cee el 12:33:26 hm, no, that's an image format not one of the postscipt file formats, isn't it. 12:33:54 hrm, are lambda lists evaluated strictly left to right in cl? 12:34:16 (foo (aref bar (incf i)) (aref bar (incf i))) 12:34:32 bytecolor: yes. 12:34:43 mgr: I render the characters of a font with tex->dvipng->pngtopgm. so eventually it is metafont. 12:34:47 pkhuong: ah, I thought I read that somewhere 12:36:00 I think maybe it was r5rs scheme that was not specified 12:36:33 right. 12:36:48 and that's annoying 12:36:49 -!- necroforest [~jarred@pool-71-191-247-161.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:36:58 pkhuong: I'm not at a point where I want to be portable. 12:36:59 could be ;) 12:37:14 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:37:18 martin`: screenshot? :) 12:38:13 p_l: I have some. But don't know where to upload. 12:38:20 martin`: imgur.com is one easy place 12:38:28 minion: memo for nyef: Does your GLX code support GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap ? 12:38:28 Remembered. I'll tell nyef when he/she/it next speaks. 12:41:10 http://imgur.com/BIYnY.png http://imgur.com/WhEWm.png http://imgur.com/hNy6Y.png http://imgur.com/HJN0t.png 12:41:10 12:42:25 not too bad 12:42:29 p_l: all images in one place: http://imgur.com/BIYnYl&WhEWm&hNy6Y&HJN0t 12:42:38 martin`: who is label-font.pgm going to be crated? a cached output of label-font? I get a no such file error. 12:43:29 mgr: you would have to copy the tex source from the top of the file into font.tex and do the processing 12:44:15 ah, and I have to rename the crated font1.pgm? 12:44:21 mgr: furthermore there is a defvar that I commented out as it takes 40s on my machine. that will assign labels to each of the chars. 12:44:45 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 12:44:47 ah, yeah 12:45:29 myu2_ [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 12:45:42 (created not crated) 12:45:59 martin annotated #98367 "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98367#1 12:47:57 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:48:58 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:49:23 martin`: works like a charm, very nice. oh, it's a siggraph paper. 12:49:25 -!- mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-ldzpidtpwhoiqkyz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:49:41 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-veebnrlarbvgnoih] has joined #lisp 12:50:21 Devon [~devon@c-98-216-157-52.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:52:56 -!- myu2_ [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:53:59 but it doesn't look as good as in the paper or in the png. is there an intermediate down-scaling of the fonts in your code? 12:54:37 necroforest [~jarred@pool-71-191-247-161.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:54:47 (no offence meant, just asking. I mean, thanks for sharing your work.) 12:54:55 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 12:55:24 mgr: Yes, I resample from ca. 200x200 pixels black and white to a 30x30 distance map. 12:55:30 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 12:55:46 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 12:57:16 mgr: The call to alpha-func can be changed to a higher value (Ideally 128d0) to make the letters less rounded. 12:58:10 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-veebnrlarbvgnoih] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:58:14 mgr: It has to be 128s0 12:59:35 mgr: By setting the variable scale in get-scaled-letter from .24 to .4 you can get better sampling (and quality). You will have to restart the window, though. 12:59:36 bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has joined #lisp 13:06:31 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:07:59 Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 13:08:38 martin`: gnah, my lisp kept crashing with opengl 13:08:53 davazp [~user@83.57.37.58] has joined #lisp 13:09:08 ok, you mean to set the 126.5s0 in (/ 126.5s0 255s0) back to 128s0? or to replace the whole division 13:09:42 changing the value seems not to improve the situation. instead I become quite alienated letters, or nothing or a white box. 13:10:10 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-57-178.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:10:57 martin`: at first I hoped it were some code that does font rendering by itself (because that does interest me more). but better opengl font rendering is also interesting, as the fonts in my lisp programs doesn't look that good. 13:11:07 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-078-042-205-245.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 13:11:26 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:11:38 Harag pasted "Metaclass inheritance question" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98369 13:12:14 Harag: you need to specify :metaclass every time 13:12:20 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 13:12:38 netytan [~netytan@85.211.63.239] has joined #lisp 13:12:50 nixie [~nixie@121.227.131.128] has joined #lisp 13:13:12 stassats: so the metaclass is not inherited? 13:13:27 yes 13:13:31 Edward_ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-60-126.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:13:40 thanx 13:14:33 Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.233] has joined #lisp 13:14:59 schoppenhauer [~senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 13:15:43 nyef [~nyef@166.186.169.167] has joined #lisp 13:15:50 G'morning all. 13:15:51 nyef, memo from tcr: I'm all for the test-suite-success-everywhere idea. In fact, it should be part of the process to get to a 1.1 release. 13:15:51 nyef, memo from p_l: Does your GLX code support GLX_EXT_texture_from_pixmap ? 13:15:54 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:15:57 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-cxaefyvrbykbgvcp] has joined #lisp 13:16:02 *nyef* is only here for about an hour. 13:17:46 mgr: Sorry, font rendering is too hard for me. 13:18:45 nyef: would your GLX code work with McCLIM? 13:19:10 p_l: I don't know about texture_from_pixmap, though I don't expect it'd be hard to add. 13:19:13 martin`: I played around with the scaling in get-scaled-letter and the (opengl) sclae as well as the argument to alpha-func in display. that seems to improve the display a bit. 13:19:20 *p_l* got some weird ideas concerning speeding up display 13:19:26 The code has been known to work with McCLIM, yes. 13:19:29 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 13:19:37 Simplest test only, though. 13:19:39 carlocci [~nes@93.37.204.40] has joined #lisp 13:20:08 martin`: very nice. thanks for sharing. 13:20:17 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:20:44 The actual test code for GLX + McCLIM is on lisppaste, and ISTR it being a paste by hefner. 13:21:08 nyef: Well, texture_from_pixmap simply takes a pixmap and gives a texture... I was thinking of speeding up display and redraw this way :-) 13:21:12 minion: paste 81572? 13:21:12 Paste number 81572: "gl-pane test" by hefner in #lisp. http://paste.lisp.org/display/81572 13:21:23 thx 13:22:44 longkid [~longkid@58.186.224.178] has joined #lisp 13:22:47 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 13:23:37 Basically, the main reason this didn't work before was that sending a GLX render command desynched the request numbers. Once that was fixed (last year), things started working properly. 13:24:06 Umm... There's still some nasty thread-affinity stuff, though. 13:24:43 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-166-139.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 13:24:44 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:24:45 hello 13:25:16 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-078-042-205-245.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 13:25:17 Okay, train is moving, so my connection may cut out (free wifi on commuter trains is awsome). 13:25:38 hooray for git 13:25:48 iPac [~bubble@p54AA5C7F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:27:34 metasyntax [~taylor@75-149-208-121-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:27:34 *rsynnott* was on a bus that had wifi, recently 13:27:57 heh 13:28:26 the coach buses to/from London airport have both WiFi and power 13:29:18 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-6-220.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:29:34 free wifi on trains.. the German railway company wants 8 Euro for an hour (or 29 Euro for a month) 13:29:40 -!- schoppenhauer [~senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:30:51 hlavaty [~user@77-22-100-58-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 13:31:49 -!- smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:31:57 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 13:33:15 in UK, national express trains do have free WiFi on board, one that works quite well (it requires free registratrion, though) 13:33:17 hello longkid 13:33:25 chiguire [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has joined #lisp 13:33:27 hi 13:33:43 I've just received email from Anne Dicky 13:34:06 she introduce some projects for M1 students 13:34:23 Are these programming projects? 13:34:24 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dfn189.rz.tu-ilmenau.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 13:35:06 yes 13:35:31 there are total 5 projects 13:36:25 smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:36:47 I think one of them is mine right? 13:37:15 ;-) Yes 13:37:34 i want to ask you something about your project 13:37:44 Go ahead! 13:38:34 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:38:48 how can we use the plug-ins for learning Vietnamese 13:38:49 -!- christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:38:55 christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 13:39:12 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 13:39:41 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 13:39:44 billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 13:39:44 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Changing host] 13:39:44 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 13:40:15 longkid: All the interesting code will be in each plugin, because they determine what is displayed, what the answers to exercises might be, etc. The only thing that is not in a plugin is common stuff like quitting the application and using the dictionary. 13:40:50 -!- nyef [~nyef@166.186.169.167] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:41:23 nyef [~nyef@166.186.169.167] has joined #lisp 13:41:53 felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has joined #lisp 13:42:50 beach: It looks like your program that you show me to read Vietnamese passage. Right? 13:43:13 longkid: No, I want something more sophisticated than that. 13:43:48 beach: Yes 13:44:07 kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-52.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 13:44:10 longkid: But yeah, the main application needs to contain a way of looking up words in a dictionary. 13:44:58 beach: How's about the language for developing? 13:45:18 beach: do you have any requirement? 13:45:28 longkid: I would be very happy if it were in Lisp, but I don't think I can make that a requirement. 13:46:08 beach: ;-) 13:46:12 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 13:47:27 beach: I also want to improve my ability about Lisp 13:47:45 That would make the discussion especially appropriate when held here. 13:47:54 beach: but I can't imagine what I have to deal with this problem. 13:48:57 longkid: I think you should try to find some colleagues who would be willing to do it in Lisp. 13:48:59 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:50:32 beach: You know. In my class, I think there are only 3 people who have some knowledge about Lisp. And the rest of students may not know. 13:50:46 longkid: That should be enough. 13:51:10 Under what circumstances is a compiler macro invoked in SBCL? 13:51:49 beach: the obvious case, and funcall of a constant function. I don't think we do APPLY, though. 13:51:50 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:51:51 I am a bit confused about the situation where the call site doesn't match the lambda list of the compiler macro. Then what happens (according to the standard)? 13:51:52 kwinz3_ [~kwinz@d86-33-115-52.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 13:52:09 beach: Yes. There is another project in which I am also interested. 13:52:12 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-52.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:52:13 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:52:15 Could you tell me why (push 5 (member 2 '(1 2 3))) Is not working, but (push 5 (cdr (member 2 '(1 2 3)))) is ok? 13:52:18 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 13:52:37 Does gencgc get used on any targets other than x86oids and ppc? 13:52:43 -!- xinming [~hyy@125.109.245.147] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:52:49 mrSpec: In order for push to work, there needs to be a setf expander. 13:52:59 mrSpec: I am sure cdr has one, but I don't think member does. 13:53:04 push is doing (setf place (cons x place)) 13:53:12 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:53:21 and nothing magical 13:53:46 ah, so cons is not working with member too? 13:53:53 nyef: no. 13:53:55 mrSpec: ? 13:53:57 stassats is lying, but it's a good mental shorthand. 13:54:13 hmm 13:54:15 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:54:16 (PUSH actually does something magical to avoid multiply-evaluating PLACE.) 13:54:18 yes, place is evalueated once 13:54:35 pkhuong: So is the compiler macro always invoked, and I have to deal with strange lambda lists myself, or is there a mechanism by which the compiler macro won't be invoked when the lambda lists don't match? 13:54:50 xinming [~hyy@125.109.242.11] has joined #lisp 13:54:55 beach: you'll get a compile-time error. 13:55:01 ok, so I can use cons &setf insted of push? 13:55:08 in this case? 13:55:24 pkhuong: Okay, cool. It occurred to me that valid-lisp-pointer-p should probably a gencgc-specific thing rather than an x86oid-specific thing, and I didn't want to risk screwing anything up by only making it happen on x86oids and ppc and missing any other gencgc targets. 13:55:57 mrSpec: push _is_ cons&setf 13:56:16 beach: So, at least find a way to punt via &whole. 13:56:17 ok 13:56:19 That'll have to wait until after I get back home, though. 13:56:45 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 13:57:01 cid` [~cid@178-25-28-89-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 13:58:08 pkhuong: Yeah, but in practice that means that one has to do all the parsing manually, because if the function and the compiler macro have a lambda list of (x &key y) and you call the function with x v y, where v is a variable having the value :y, then that's a perfectly good call, but the compiler macro then gives an error? 13:59:03 beach: No, have the compiler-macro take &allow-other-keys. 13:59:43 nyef: v would be considered a key? I guess it would since keys don't have to be keywords. 13:59:57 fiveop [~fiveop@g229083235.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:00:00 Umm... Not sure. 14:00:40 -!- nixie [~nixie@121.227.131.128] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:00:45 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-74-68-121-85.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:00:45 I mean, if not, then you would get an error wrt required arguments. 14:00:45 I've only ever messed with compiler-macros once, and there wasn't really an issue with such parameterization. 14:01:24 stassats: Could you help me with homework you gave me? (let ((list (list 1 2 4 5))) (push 3 (cdr (member 2 list))) list). How to put 3 before, not after? If I have to use (cdr (member...) to push anything 14:02:15 mrSpec: Exchange the two values. 14:02:31 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 14:02:31 a MEMBER, which returns penultimate cdr before 2 14:02:45 Oh, god. I just found a bit in the middle of debug-int that checks to see if an integer represents a lisp pointer with logbitp 0. Ugh. :-/ 14:02:56 err, not penultimate, jast the cdr before 2 14:02:57 (progn (push 3 (cdr mumble)) (rotatef (car mumble) (cadr mumble))) 14:03:18 ah 14:03:32 thanks 14:03:40 No problem. 14:03:56 So I guess I am on my own when it comes to compiler macros :( 14:04:54 beach: It could be one of those things that isn't quite suited for public interface code but is fine for internal code and macroexpansions. 14:05:31 nixie [~nixie@121.227.131.128] has joined #lisp 14:05:41 nyef: I suppose it could. 14:05:47 beach pasted "I can't even get this compiler macro to be invoked." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98372 14:05:58 Okay, I'm coming up on my stop, so I'm going to sign off now. I'll be back when I can. 14:05:59 -!- nyef [~nyef@166.186.169.167] has quit [Quit: Bye all.] 14:06:13 [when I say (ff 40 :y 12)] 14:06:58 -!- nixie [~nixie@121.227.131.128] has left #lisp 14:08:00 do you compile? 14:08:05 beach: compiler macros can be ignored by an implementation.. if you're using sbcl, try putting the form into a lambda 14:08:18 stassats: I don't file compile, but yes, I use C-c C-c in SLIME. 14:08:35 adeht: What do you mean by that? 14:08:50 adeht: Ah, OK. I see. 14:08:53 hold on... 14:08:56 -!- longkid [~longkid@58.186.224.178] has left #lisp 14:09:05 beach: the compiler macro is invoked when I try it in lispworks 14:10:35 adeht: It works when compiled. 14:10:45 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:11:12 and I do get a compilation error for (ff 10 v 20) where the value of v is :y. 14:11:43 hmm, that kind of sucks, because it means you essentially have to do the parsing yourself. 14:11:48 beach: if you want that to be valid, use &allow-other-keys 14:12:44 beach: well, at macroexpansion time you don't know the value of V 14:13:02 adeht: Yes, I know the fundamental problem. 14:13:23 adeht: I just didn't know whether my compiler macro would be invoked or not in that case. 14:14:01 but &allow-other-keys works. Thanks. 14:14:27 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:15:22 adeht: Of course, now if I do (ff x :y y :z (+ x y)) I don't even get a warning, so that's clearly not so great either. 14:16:09 I think pkhuong was right. The only safe solution is to do your own parsing of &whole. 14:16:16 beach: how do you propose to solve that? 14:16:31 Not sure. 14:16:50 Doing my own complete parsing seems silly. 14:16:58 I don't think you can, because of the issue I just brought up 14:17:05 beach: destructuring-bind and handle errors :) 14:18:00 keyword parameters are essentially a runtime mechanism 14:18:39 adeht: sure you can. If you just define &whole and perhaps &rest, then you would just check that you have keyword-value paris with constant keywords, and return &whole otherwise. 14:18:50 beach: but &key &allow-other-keys seems fine. Or an inline function to handle the parsing and call an internal function with a simpler calling convention. 14:18:51 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-216-82.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:18:57 you don't know if (ff x v 123) is ok until you know the value of V 14:19:21 adeht: So, you return &whole in this case and have the function deal with it. 14:20:09 pkhuong: Yeah, I'll come up with something as soon as some pattern starts becoming visible. 14:20:42 pkhuong: The destructuring-bind solution might work. 14:21:20 pkhuong: That way, I would NOT give &allow-other-keys and just return &whole in case of errors. 14:21:29 right. 14:21:51 Or you can hack something up to handle easy cases and replace the function name with a lambda. 14:22:18 -!- jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit [Quit: Boot me gently] 14:23:54 I guess so. 14:24:52 NNshag [user@lns-bzn-61-82-250-117-21.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:03 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-53-82-65-6-146.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:25:33 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-mapzcxabbzowkyzc] has left #lisp 14:26:49 -!- reprore [~reprore@p4b216c.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:31:13 jgracin [~jgracin@vipnet3484.mobile.carnet.hr] has joined #lisp 14:31:57 jack` [~nixie@121.227.131.128] has joined #lisp 14:32:49 beach pasted "Using destructuring-bind in compiler macros." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98376 14:33:09 pkhuong: adeht: that seems to do the trick. It is not too bad. 14:33:51 -!- Joreji [~thomas@71-255.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:34:21 -!- bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:34:24 -!- jack` [~nixie@121.227.131.128] has left #lisp 14:34:32 bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has joined #lisp 14:34:51 jack` [~nixie@121.227.131.128] has joined #lisp 14:35:14 beach: it's also buggy. 14:35:27 pkhuong: Oh dear. Where? 14:36:13 (let ((y nil)) (ff x :y y)) will result in (* x nil). 14:36:42 you really want to test for constantness (or, rather numberness, since you can test for constantness, but not for the value). 14:36:53 lispaste doesn't support LaTeX, right? 14:36:58 -!- jack` [~nixie@121.227.131.128] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:37:10 pkhuong: either that or suppliedness 14:37:13 nixie [~nixie@121.227.131.128] has joined #lisp 14:37:30 pkhuong: Sure, this was just to illustrate that I can capture the structure that way. 14:37:54 -!- nixie [~nixie@121.227.131.128] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:38:21 oh, handles the case where it _is_ supplied.. 14:38:38 suppliedness is better I think. 14:38:51 is cl-rdbms the best SQL library in lisp? 14:38:54 beach: won't do 14:39:52 adeht: I'll still attempt to multiply with nil, but that problem wasn't introduced by teh compiler macro. 14:40:26 beach: the big problem in that paste is that the semantics of the expansion don't match those of the function.. 14:40:30 oh wait, it was, because I have (or y 10) 14:40:51 adeht: Yeah, yeah. Like I said, it was just to illustrate the mechanism. 14:41:08 Anyway, thanks for discussing this with me. 14:41:56 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-078-042-205-245.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 14:42:11 -!- Devon [~devon@c-98-216-157-52.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:44:19 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:44:35 -!- kwinz3_ [~kwinz@d86-33-115-52.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:46:12 kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-52.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 14:46:20 Does common lisp have something like "named-let" as in Scheme? 14:47:31 -!- chiguire [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has quit [Quit: chao chiguire ...] 14:47:36 kenjin2201: there are some macros. Mostly we just don't use recursion as much. 14:48:11 -!- smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:49:43 How come? Just a tradition? 14:50:31 <_3b``> CL spec has lots of iteration constructs, but not TCO 14:51:21 TR2N` [email@89-180-143-148.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 14:51:21 -!- TR2N [email@89.180.196.239] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:51:29 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-52.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:52:08 brookeGarcia [~brookeGar@dsl-155-237.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 14:52:28 -!- varjag is now known as varjagg 14:53:06 -!- TR2N` is now known as TR2N 14:53:07 kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-52.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 14:53:10 I see considerable time spent due to using EQUAL in the info db 14:53:30 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:54:43 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-cxaefyvrbykbgvcp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:55:25 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:55:56 tcr pasted "slime-sprof bits" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98378 14:56:00 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:57:00 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 15:01:21 Bobrobyn_ [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 15:01:36 -!- ASau` [~user@77.246.230.238] has quit [Quit: off] 15:02:20 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 15:02:37 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:02:54 hello 15:03:10 Pholious: perec rather, for which cl-rdbms is db connection layer... 15:03:15 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:03:20 beach pasted "potential compiler macro for FIND-IF" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98379 15:03:28 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:03:35 hello kiuma 15:03:52 you can do TCO manually, I guess, with labels. 15:04:10 -!- Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:04:12 or tagbody 15:04:25 p_l: with *labels*? How does that guarantee TCO? 15:05:05 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:05:10 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 15:05:20 my big brojects are near to the end, I'm very eager to put hands again on my lisp conde and I have something in mind 15:05:29 pkhuong: my error, I think it was more towards tagbody ^^; 15:05:53 pkhuong: I just remembered TCO-capable scheme compiler from PAIP, but didn't check the code 15:06:08 should I prefer UFFI over CFFI or vice versa ? 15:06:22 p_l: the easiest way to get TCO is to convert to CPS and flatten the stack with a trampoline from time to time. 15:06:35 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 15:06:36 kiuma: CFFI 15:06:43 smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:06:55 thanks 15:07:14 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-52.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:08:19 These days I had the possibility to give a look over enlightenment that seems very cool, the other thing that seems so cool (and maybe more prctical) is OpenOffice and odf files 15:08:32 I'm planning to play with them :) 15:11:26 MetalDust [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:13:01 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:17:15 italic [~italic@cpe-69-207-6-88.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:18:26 -!- licoresse [~user@cm-84.209.103.64.getinternet.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:18:26 ignotus [~ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has joined #lisp 15:21:57 hi, is it possible to catch all the writer method calls of an object? I need to set the variable "changed" to T if any of its variables is changed (through accessors), is it possible? 15:23:38 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 15:24:00 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has quit [Quit: -arividerchi] 15:24:22 ignotus: use an :around method around the writer. 15:24:59 ignotus: when you use :accessor in defclass, two methods are created: one for #'accessor-name (the reader), and #'(setf accessor-name) (the writer) 15:25:21 davazp` [~user@83.57.37.58] has joined #lisp 15:25:32 sykopomp: I see, but I don't want to do that by hand one by one, is it possible to have it done programatically? 15:25:40 -!- davazp` [~user@83.57.37.58] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:25:54 -!- davazp [~user@83.57.37.58] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:26:00 davazp` [~user@83.57.37.58] has joined #lisp 15:26:01 you can use the MOP 15:26:06 -!- davazp` [~user@83.57.37.58] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:26:30 if you use the MOP, you don't even need to do it on accessor methods. You can make it happen on slot access. 15:26:31 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 15:26:47 sykopomp: hm, where can I read about the MOP? 15:26:58 !tell ignotus about amop 15:26:59 err 15:27:04 minion: tell ignotus about amop 15:27:04 ignotus: direct your attention towards amop: The Art of the Metaobject Protocol, an essential book for understanding the implementation of CLOS and advanced OO. See the sepcification of MOP at http://www.lisp.org/mop/ 15:27:42 omg 15:27:47 sykopomp: thanks! 15:27:52 is there already any binding between CL and OpenOffice ? 15:27:54 no problem. Good luck. 15:28:44 ignotus: AMOP is a pretty neat book. One of my favorites :) 15:29:32 -!- bigjust` [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:29:40 sykopomp: looks really cool, I definitely need to read through this:) 15:30:18 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:30:52 Davidbrcz [david@212-198-83-2.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 15:34:16 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:36:26 -!- vtl [~user@nat/redhat/x-gnukvpyjsnfldahv] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:37:00 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 15:39:33 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:39:45 rread [~rread@nat/sun/x-pmdaqchzcfdlbjqb] has joined #lisp 15:40:40 Is CL-HTTP any good? 15:41:30 -!- christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:41:30 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:41:30 -!- Suczker [~sucker@fw.cro.cz] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:41:31 -!- sytse [sytse@speedy.student.ipv6.utwente.nl] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:41:31 -!- yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:41:31 -!- clog [nef@bespin.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:41:31 -!- lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:41:31 -!- z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:41:31 -!- johs [~johs@hawk.netfonds.no] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:42:33 christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 15:42:33 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 15:42:33 Suczker [~sucker@fw.cro.cz] has joined #lisp 15:42:33 sytse [sytse@speedy.student.ipv6.utwente.nl] has joined #lisp 15:42:33 yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:42:33 clog [nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 15:42:33 lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #lisp 15:42:33 z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #lisp 15:42:33 johs [~johs@hawk.netfonds.no] has joined #lisp 15:42:33 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:42:55 I am at once terribly amused and terribly annoyed by . Makes me wish I could use SBCL and its fantastic unicode handling all the time. 15:43:07 quotemstr: i don't know of many people who use it. rainer joswig is one such person. 15:43:13 (and cl-ppcre (-:) 15:43:29 Thanks. drakma looks a little more modern. 15:43:36 antifuchs: as long as you don't get the bmh matcher settings wrong! 15:43:43 yeah, well 15:43:53 at least it doesn't categorically refuse to match words that I want to match 15:43:57 rread_ [~rread@nat/sun/session] has joined #lisp 15:43:59 -!- rread_ [~rread@nat/sun/session] has quit [Changing host] 15:43:59 rread_ [~rread@nat/sun/x-jvprminpxgkiwunz] has joined #lisp 15:44:06 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:44:13 -!- rread [~rread@nat/sun/x-pmdaqchzcfdlbjqb] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:44:13 -!- rread_ is now known as rread 15:44:39 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 15:45:40 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 15:45:41 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:47:34 quotemstr: CL-HTTP is more of a webserver, IIRC 15:47:51 p_l: True, but it appears to have a client too. 15:48:02 I'm quiet fond of drakma, FWIW 15:48:07 quite, even 15:48:38 quotemstr: just go with drakma, less pain to get it running... with CL-HTTP, you will probably need to port it first to your implementation, unless you run one of the listed there or Genera :) 15:49:49 xan_ [~xan@81.193.130.129] has joined #lisp 15:50:58 p_l: Thanks. 15:51:26 p_l: It's more to get a sense of what a good API is; I'm actually porting to a highly restricted Lisp-1. :-) 15:52:18 hm.. is there something like "lisp in small pieces" but more cl-ish? 15:52:24 Clojure? ;) 15:52:36 quotemstr: 15:52:57 R2RS? :P 15:53:09 A greenspunned Lisp. :-) 15:53:38 *p_l* had R2RS as his first contact with lisp (I had seen AutoLisp before that, but I didn't read the book) 15:53:58 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:54:00 Ah. I, like a lot of people I suppose, started with elisp. 15:54:13 me too 15:54:36 But anyway --- are there any good uses for restarts other than debugging? 15:54:46 dlowe: i found it this morning and loving it. 15:55:09 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 15:56:11 quotemstr: condition handling, of course :) 15:56:52 nunb [~nundan@122.162.138.14] has joined #lisp 15:57:33 reprore_ [~reprore@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:58:20 -!- rread [~rread@nat/sun/x-jvprminpxgkiwunz] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:58:48 If you squint, you'll see that restarts are dynamically scoped functions in disguise 15:59:39 -!- bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has quit [Quit: Finished work, going home] 15:59:50 If I take a few shots and squint, they look a bit like continuations. 16:00:15 Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 16:00:54 yeah they are that, too, for some restrictive value of continuation 16:01:28 I've just never sat down and said, "this problem would be much easier with resumable exceptions". 16:02:27 quotemstr: I guess you don't write a lot of OS-interaction code and similar? 16:02:28 You never wanted to retry an http request on a temporarily out of service? 16:02:39 look at sbcl's external-format support 16:02:42 tcr: I can that at the top level. 16:03:10 You can also emulate closures in C 16:03:27 if there's an encoding error (e.g. invalid utf-8 sequence or attempt to print a lower case lambda into a iso-8859-1 stream) an error is signaled 16:03:51 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:03:55 and there's restarts to e.g. skip the bad character or to replace it with another one 16:04:08 tcr: Lately, I caught myself wishing for a getcontext/setcontext :/ 16:04:10 rread [~rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:04:14 jsnell: Can't you just set that kind of policy with a dynamically-bound variable? 16:04:44 quotemstr: conditions are more verrsatile 16:05:00 quotemstr: Sure you can. You can also use recursion for iteration. 16:05:14 of course you could, since restarts are nothing but a dynamically bound variable 16:05:32 bound to function objects! voila dynamically scoped functions in disguise :-) 16:05:53 Of course, this is a lisp-1, so I get dynamic function scoping for free. :-) 16:05:54 <_3b``> and then you can replace the dynamic vars by binding and resetting lexicals on unwind, etc 16:06:02 quotemstr: ? 16:06:05 but then you would need to rewrite this code from scratch every time you need this kind of a feature 16:06:44 until you get bored of repeating the same pattern over and over, and add a couple of library functions to do it for you 16:06:51 at which point you have exactly restarts 16:07:01 the clever bit about cl conditions is not restarts 16:07:19 it's separating the handling of conditions from the unrolling of the stack 16:08:05 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-11-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:08:49 (which for consistency you're probably going to dismiss as merely a dynamic variable, which is perfectly correct) 16:09:32 -!- cid` [~cid@178-25-28-89-dynip.superkabel.de] has left #lisp 16:10:30 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.8] has joined #lisp 16:11:00 kpreid [~kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 16:11:49 Right. Thanks for the discussion. 16:11:50 -!- netytan [~netytan@85.211.63.239] has quit [Quit: netytan] 16:13:26 -!- rread [~rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:13:32 rread [~rread@nat/sun/x-bhpwcrkabcoihwfy] has joined #lisp 16:14:22 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 16:14:43 netytan [~netytan@85.211.63.239] has joined #lisp 16:15:27 -!- netytan [~netytan@85.211.63.239] has quit [Client Quit] 16:15:57 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:19:29 -!- CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:24:42 kwinz3 [~kwinz@e194-082.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 16:29:37 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-135-10.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:30:21 nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 16:32:10 redline6561 [~redline@gate-30.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 16:34:13 CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 16:37:10 alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 16:39:19 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:40:52 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:41:44 -!- dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:43:30 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:46:17 -!- nunb [~nundan@122.162.138.14] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:46:41 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:48:22 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: restart rcirc] 16:48:23 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 16:48:24 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 16:49:22 netytan [~netytan@85.211.63.239] has joined #lisp 16:50:47 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 16:52:34 When does one get a 0.0, and when a -0.0 as result of computation? 16:52:58 I see a -0.0 as part of my format output, I wonder how that comes? 16:53:46 -!- alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:54:37 -!- CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:55:27 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:56:43 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 16:57:40 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 16:57:49 -!- pookleblinky [~pooklebli@cpe-67-252-140-159.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:58:46 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:58:49 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.126.27] has joined #lisp 16:59:00 abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has joined #lisp 16:59:06 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@e194-082.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:59:34 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 16:59:49 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 17:01:40 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 17:04:22 Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 17:04:59 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:07:25 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 17:12:02 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.126.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:13:01 -!- jgracin [~jgracin@vipnet3484.mobile.carnet.hr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:13:16 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:14:26 gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 17:15:33 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:15:51 faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 17:16:00 -!- legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-1-181.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:16:21 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 17:17:43 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 17:19:02 -!- c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:19:47 mishoo [~mishoo@host102-108-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:20:09 is there a way to unbind a special? 17:20:19 kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-52.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 17:20:43 clop: makunbound is one way 17:20:54 clop: there's no standard way to make the name stop being special. 17:20:56 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@ip68-108-251-45.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:21:06 thanks, that's what i was looking for 17:21:31 -!- xan_ [~xan@81.193.130.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:21:32 i just have some old code i'm trying to patch, want to unbind its vars to make sure they aren't used during the transition 17:22:34 alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 17:24:10 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.166.145.239] has joined #lisp 17:24:31 levene [levene@lanczos.maths.tcd.ie] has joined #lisp 17:24:45 cmm- [~cmm@bzq-79-176-200-31.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 17:25:32 i'm trying to compile maxima with gcl. 17:25:42 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:25:42 /opt/gcl/bin/gcl -batch -eval '(progn (load "../lisp-utils/defsystem.lisp") (compiler::emit-fn t) )' 17:25:45 CrEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 17:25:47 gives an error: 17:25:50 INTERNAL-SIMPLE-ERROR: The package named USER, does not exist 17:26:10 anyone know what this means? 17:26:18 or, more to the point, how it might be fixed? 17:26:31 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-176-201-108.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:26:56 attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 17:26:59 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:27:38 levene: I don't know if you'll find a maxima user here. You might have better luck on the maxima mailing list. 17:28:00 Xach: ok. My problem is that I'm not sure if it's a maxima problem or a GCL problem 17:28:17 Xach: do you think it's a maxima problem? 17:28:25 I'll pastebin the error in a moment 17:29:21 http://pastebin.com/ac7ySpjF 17:29:34 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:29:56 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 17:31:18 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-82-53.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 17:31:23 levene: i think there's nearly a 1:1 ratio of gcl users to maxima users 17:31:33 levene: gcl is not commonly used outside of maxima, as far as i can tell. 17:31:49 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:32:15 Xach: OK. I'll try the maxima mailing list, then. Thanks for your help. 17:32:39 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@host102-108-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:32:41 Good luck with it! 17:33:18 alec [~aberryman@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 17:33:44 Krystof: we've tested it on older NetBSD. 17:33:51 -!- hlavaty [~user@77-22-100-58-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:33:52 Krystof: it installs fine. 17:33:53 mstevens [~mstevens@cl-807.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 17:33:56 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@cl-807.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:33:56 mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has joined #lisp 17:34:09 sjbach [~sjbach__@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 17:34:27 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 17:39:50 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 17:40:50 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:09 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 17:43:34 -!- CrEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:43:42 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:45:50 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:45:56 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 17:46:09 -!- netytan [~netytan@85.211.63.239] has quit [Quit: netytan] 17:47:14 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:47:36 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:48:13 mishoo [~mishoo@host102-108-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:49:10 -!- Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:51:43 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 17:53:46 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 17:55:13 well axiom runs on sbcl 17:55:45 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 17:56:55 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-153-248.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 17:56:59 hey, is there an easy way to disable foo:bar reader syntax, so that referring to symbols from other packages is imposible? 17:57:48 Dodek: no 17:58:39 aha, ok. i need to modify readtable, then. 17:58:55 Dodek: you'll have to write your custum reader 17:59:04 i guess so. 18:02:13 levene: Last time I compiled maxima with sbcl. Is there a specific reason why you want to use gcl? 18:03:26 i wonder, what is actually preventing sbcl from infering result type when defining a function ? 18:03:43 kpreid [~kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 18:05:45 billitch: what's the exact note/error you're getting? 18:05:46 netytan [~netytan@85.211.63.239] has joined #lisp 18:06:27 billitch: I think the issue is redefinition may occur at any time. If you infer the result type, you must update callers on redefinition. 18:08:05 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:08:43 Xach: that's only a problem if the result type changes, and if so semantics change, so callers should be changed accordingly, no ? 18:10:18 <_3b``> billitch: that assumes no bugs, and that the inferred type matches the intended sematics 18:11:00 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:11:09 _3b``: i meant issuing a warning would be right 18:11:27 billitch: there are lots of things that could be done. 18:11:28 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-153-248.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Po-ta-to, boil em, mash em, stick em in a stew.] 18:12:09 yes, I feel this is a nice way to go to improve safety and performances 18:12:19 but i dont know anything about sbcl internals too.. 18:12:32 where by improving safety you mean making things less safe? 18:13:20 jsnell: that's certainly not what i meant 18:13:50 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:13:56 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-153-248.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 18:14:02 yes, I know that isn't actually what you meant. I was just trying to highlight that'd be the actual consequence 18:14:44 if we define A as returning a fixnum, compile B that uses A, and then redefine A to return a float, the assumptions B made about A are now invalid 18:14:47 jsnell: i assumed implementor would do the right thing 18:15:09 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-216-82.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:15:16 jsnell: of course, that's why issuing a warning is critical 18:15:33 I think it'd be mostly useless 18:15:41 in this case yes 18:15:43 enthymeme [~kraken@130.166.209.14] has joined #lisp 18:15:44 but with objects 18:15:52 the warning brings more safety 18:16:01 billitch: why can't you declaim the expected type? 18:16:03 i meant with incompatible types 18:16:20 there is a variable you can set in sbcl to make it propagate the inferred return types 18:16:21 That way the type system helps enforce what you, the programmer, expect. 18:16:55 bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 18:17:20 pkhuong: i'll try to do that but i expect more errors from me than from the compiler, beside i'm much slower 18:17:20 but in general I think it's not a good idea to use it, any more than constantly using (speed 3) (safety 0) would 18:17:23 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-23-38.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:17:51 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 18:18:06 and i was thinking of compile time type checking 18:18:07 (the "right thing" would be to recompile all functions that depend on the redefined function) 18:18:32 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 18:18:47 billitch: so am I. 18:19:06 <_3b``> that still leaves the problem of redefining things while callers are running 18:20:08 daniel___ [~daniel@p5082D46F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:20:25 -!- Bobrobyn_ [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:20:46 would recompiling functions need all source code available ? maybe an intermediate state would be enough ? 18:21:38 I'm actually considering keeping the source around (and data about the lexical environment) to inline non-toplevel functions. 18:21:47 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082CD0E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:24:40 pkhuong: why not toplevel functions ? 18:24:55 I think there should be a programmer-assumed type which is checked on compile-time, too, but merely emits a condition subtype of style-warning 18:25:06 billitch: because they already are. 18:25:13 because it can be wrong 18:25:25 lint-style 18:28:05 it should probably be based not only on the notion of "incompatible types", but "may lead to an error at run-time", so check-type, assertions, and (when (foop) (error ..)) lead to compile-time information that can be reasoned about by the compiler 18:28:06 esubterra [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 18:28:09 ephcon [~ephcon@n250-35.mtholyoke.edu] has joined #lisp 18:28:10 pkhuong: i'll have to look into this :) 18:29:27 but apart from programming ethics, it would be possible to infer in a safe way the return type of a function ? 18:30:11 I don't what you mean by safe. 18:30:43 drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:09 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.126.27] has joined #lisp 18:31:29 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:31:30 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@n250-35.mtholyoke.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 18:31:31 but, even with on-demand compilation, you might easily end up with circular recompilation on mutually recursive functions. 18:35:03 -!- Edward_ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-60-126.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:35:05 shofetim [~user@c-76-23-45-193.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:25 -!- leifw [~user@ool-18bfe51c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:36:54 pkhuong: that would require first doing inference, then recompiling all changed functions 18:37:13 or issuing warnings 18:38:19 (i wish there were warnings about callers of redefined macros too) 18:39:51 benny` [~benny@i577A3CA6.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:40:00 maden [~maden@198.168.103.254] has joined #lisp 18:40:22 billitch: you can get a list with who-macroexpands. 18:41:10 -!- benny [~benny@i577A25F3.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:41:49 did I just join this channel? 18:41:59 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.126.27] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:42:26 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.126.27] has joined #lisp 18:42:37 pkhuong: nice 18:42:39 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 18:46:38 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-230-37.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 18:47:51 -!- maden [~maden@198.168.103.254] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:48:09 -!- abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:51:44 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:52:13 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:52:59 -!- iPac [~bubble@p54AA5C7F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:54:05 billitch: in slime, us M-_, then C-c C-k to recompile all uses of a macro 18:54:29 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 18:56:14 Edward_ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-54-192.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:57:20 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:57:52 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:17 iPac [~bubble@p54AA4571.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:14 semyon421 [~semyon@178.176.223.0] has joined #lisp 18:59:16 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@host102-108-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:59:31 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 19:03:20 varjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:03:29 -!- synthasee [~synthase@adsl-146-213-189.mob.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:05:28 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 19:05:36 -!- varjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has left #lisp 19:06:01 poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has joined #lisp 19:06:50 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:07:13 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-6-220.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 19:07:18 synthase [~synthase@adsl-220-190-235.mob.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:08:17 Lis [~Lis@dialbs-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:08:32 quodlibetor [~user@146.95.21.59] has joined #lisp 19:10:13 -!- semyon421 [~semyon@178.176.223.0] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:10:43 c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:10:48 -!- bakkdoor [~bakkdoor@s15229144.onlinehome-server.info] has left #lisp 19:12:03 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has joined #lisp 19:15:38 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:16:14 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.166.145.239] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:19:34 -!- stettberger [stettberge@2001:6f8:1209:f0:216:3eff:fe03:ff] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:21:06 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-11-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:22:16 stettberger [stettberge@2001:6f8:1209:f0:216:3eff:fe03:ff] has joined #lisp 19:23:47 -!- iPac [~bubble@p54AA4571.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 19:23:57 schoppenhauer [~senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 19:24:05 fatblueduck [~chris@pool-71-104-235-97.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:24:53 I'm trying to send an object variable's accessor to a macro 19:24:57 and this works but.. 19:25:15 I get compiler warning 'note: deleting unrachable code' 19:25:31 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:25:55 fatblueduck: I'd like to help. Can you paste the code? 19:26:17 Xach: yes! 19:26:43 ... one sec 19:27:22 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 19:28:07 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:28:30 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 19:31:39 tcr: thanks 19:32:37 -!- synthase [~synthase@adsl-220-190-235.mob.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:32:41 -!- netytan [~netytan@85.211.63.239] has quit [Quit: netytan] 19:33:00 fatblueduck pasted "note: deleting unrachable code" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98394 19:33:45 fatblueduck: i can't help make that work, sorry. it should not be a macro. 19:34:40 Xach: okay thanks for looking 19:35:21 <_3b``> fatblueduck: > and < accept more than 2 arguments 19:35:38 synthase [~synthase@adsl-220-182-234.mob.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:35:40 eugu [~Miranda@212.1.246.237] has joined #lisp 19:36:23 <_3b``> fatblueduck: and use WHEN or UNLESS instead of IF with only 1 branch 19:36:32 _3b: okay 19:37:10 this does not need to be a macro, however I'm planning to build this up into something that I believe should be a macro 19:37:39 <_3b``> fatblueduck: it looks broken currently 19:38:44 <_3b``> fatblueduck: for example what happens with (let ((foo '(1 3))) (move-iteratively use-descriptive-names-not-orgn foo ...)) 19:38:55 <_3b``> actually, nevermind... 19:39:23 *_3b``* can't read 19:40:44 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:41:17 licoresse [~user@cm-84.209.103.64.getinternet.no] has joined #lisp 19:41:58 hrm seems like my backquote key is getting dysfunctional. Only reacting on attentioned pressure 19:42:57 <_3b``> fatblueduck: assuming you do at some point turn it into something that should be a macro, you might want to be more careful not to evaluate the macro arguments more than once 19:43:24 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:43:42 darkestkhan [~darkestkh@host137.217.146.194.generacja.pl] has joined #lisp 19:44:00 _3b``: okay 19:44:31 what books about CLISP you can recommend? 19:44:36 tcr: looks like you used it too much :P 19:44:50 <_3b``> darkestkhan: clisp specifically, or common lisp in general? 19:44:59 darkestkhan: about CLISP in particular? or do you want to learn about any common lisp implementation? 19:45:18 attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 19:45:27 common lisp in general 19:45:28 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 19:45:33 darkestkhan: what's your background? 19:45:40 derrida [~derrida@unaffiliated/deleuze] has joined #lisp 19:45:50 <_3b``> minion: tell darkestkhan about pcl 19:45:51 darkestkhan: have a look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 19:45:59 and since I'm using CLISP then I think that about CLISP in particular would be also good 19:46:08 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 19:46:18 minion: clisp? 19:46:19 clisp: CLISP is a Common Lisp implementation by Bruno Haible of Karlsruhe University and Michael Stoll of Munich University, both in Germany. http://www.cliki.net/clisp 19:46:22 _3b``: I think we advise that book way too soon. It isn't the holy grail either 19:47:05 <_3b``> madnificent: probably, would have added gentle if i thought minion could tell about 2 things at once 19:47:15 _3b``: :P 19:47:28 minion: tell darkestkhan about gentle 19:47:28 darkestkhan: have a look at gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 19:48:24 abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has joined #lisp 19:49:06 alistair [~alistair@host86-180-16-151.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:49:09 -!- stettberger [stettberge@2001:6f8:1209:f0:216:3eff:fe03:ff] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:49:18 What's the feeling for gentle here? It's never managed to find a home on my lisp shelf... 19:49:35 rpg: i found it really good as a general intro book. 19:49:46 *pkhuong* is flushing year old patches from his queue. 19:49:57 francogrex [~user@91.177.48.170] has joined #lisp 19:50:06 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:50:17 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Client Quit] 19:50:40 pkhuong: I'll have a look. Possibly pass it on --- occasionally I need to give someone an intro. I've been using PCL, though. 19:51:01 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0090-205-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has left #lisp 19:51:44 -!- quodlibetor [~user@146.95.21.59] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:52:22 -!- schoppenhauer [~senjak@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:53:01 stettberger [stettberge@2001:6f8:1209:f0:216:3eff:fe03:ff] has joined #lisp 19:53:14 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 19:53:53 rdd [~user@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 19:53:54 thanks 19:54:02 any more books? 19:54:25 -!- poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has quit [Quit: poet] 19:54:32 darkestkhan: come back after you've read and understood those :) you'll also want to look at the hyperspec : 19:54:35 minion: hyperspec? 19:54:35 hyperspec: The Common Lisp HyperSpec can be found at http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/ - or go to the contents at http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Front/Contents.htm 19:54:37 wow. When was the last time any one even tried to build sbcl/alpha? 19:54:47 and maybe cltl2 as well 19:54:48 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-078-042-205-245.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 19:54:50 i am asking because every book is describing things in slightly different way and i find it really helpful 19:54:52 minion: cltl2? 19:54:52 darkestkhan: after you finish those and get comfortable, get paip 19:54:53 cltl2: "Common Lisp the Language, 2nd ed" is a book by Guy Steele that describes the state of Common Lisp as it was partway through the ANSI process. http://www.cliki.net/cltl2 19:54:57 minion: paip? 19:54:58 paip: Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming: Case Studies in Common Lisp by Peter Norvig. http://www.cliki.net/paip 19:56:55 ok, thx - now i think that enough material to begin study of common lisp :) 19:57:22 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755d11.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:57:27 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-16-247-61.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:57:28 rpg: I started actually programming using Gentle Intro (I'd done a tiny bit of python before that), and then moved onto PCL. 19:57:35 Gentle is pretty fantastic as an intro book, imo. 19:58:34 interesting. Also interesting is the accent on symbolic computing, which seems less front-and-center in some of the other books. 19:58:45 Or at least less /explicit/. 19:59:15 rpg: IMHO the best chapter of gentle was "applicative computing"... I actually started grasping... Haskell. 19:59:51 SICP is pretty awesome, if one is willing to mentally translate it, or dip into Scheme. 20:00:13 minion: sicp? 20:00:13 sicp: The Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs, a CS textbook using Scheme. Available under the CC-BY-NC Licence at (HTML), (Texinfo), and (PDF). Video lectures are available under the CC-BY-SA licence at 20:01:30 pkhuong: probably a very long while ago 20:02:12 well, if you someone was learning haskell then learning common lisp is not so hard (at last I think so because it was not hard to get started in common lisp for me) 20:02:46 i even find that learning common lisp is helping in haskell... 20:02:52 froydnj: I introduced a reference to the sc!c package some time last summer and only fixed it now. 20:03:02 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:03:32 sounds about right :) 20:03:32 darkestkhan: Coming from haskell, you might want to find a good explanation for why lispers like s-expressions so much. that seems like an interesting difference. 20:03:50 -!- reprore_ [~reprore@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:05:14 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 20:05:26 heh, I know bsaics of basics of lisp and i think that s-expression is nice 20:05:29 darkestkhan: I actually ended up mixing both - for quite a long time I was under the spell of PG and "Scheme is cleaner lisp", after multiple failures associated with that, I started Haskell, and while learning it I stumbled upon PCL and understood CLOS for the first time (and got sold on CL) 20:06:16 too bad that lisp is not lazy - it is the only thing that i miss 20:06:31 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:06:43 ; i know about clazy 20:06:45 darkestkhan: Try Clojure 20:07:01 Clojure ? 20:07:02 it has a lot of Haskell goodness 20:07:07 but is a lisp 20:07:29 Rick Hickey took some good ideas from Haskell when making it 20:07:34 *kencausey* points at #clojure 20:07:49 *LaPingvino* is there as well, although silent at the moment 20:08:07 (kencausey: is this #lisp or #commonlisp ;)) 20:08:24 LaPingvino: see topic. 20:08:30 practically #commonlisp 20:08:31 topic = set 20:08:40 on wiki it seems nice :) 20:08:54 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:09:30 none of the lisp are good for windowz 20:09:38 brah-: bullshit 20:09:39 lispworks 20:09:48 trueshit 20:10:20 historically they are a better fit for non-windows systems 20:10:34 especially for self-entailing OSes ;) 20:10:39 Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 20:10:44 I don't mean "just runs on windows" I mean has the proper headers and stuff to interact with windows api etc... 20:11:05 most lisp are a world in itself 20:11:06 brah-: Corman CL, Lispworks, Allegro CL... 20:11:08 netytan [~netytan@85.211.63.239] has joined #lisp 20:11:34 those three definitely interact well with windows, the only drawback of Corman is lack of full unicode support and 64 bit 20:11:48 what is windows?? 20:11:49 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:12:14 darke its over 91% of the total market 20:12:18 linux being UNDER 1% 20:12:24 thats what windows is 20:12:39 darkestkhan: depends if you are asking about the operating system, or the DOS application, or the embedded system? 20:12:53 just joking, but i know personally ppl whose first contact with windows was at university 20:12:58 pers` [~user@p5DC737BD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:05 marioxcc [~user@201.132.50.62] has joined #lisp 20:13:32 brah-: actually, if you took *total* computing market, the numbers would be quite different, because desktops aren't everything... 20:13:38 here, in poland, GNU/Linux is more than 2% :) 20:14:36 but we dont have almost dont have macs 20:14:48 I love when the uninformed challenge me 20:14:49 http://www.netmarketshare.com/operating-system-market-share.aspx?qprid=8 20:15:13 looks like linux got to 1% 20:15:16 grats 20:15:20 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Xach 20:15:22 -!- Xach has set mode +b *!*brah@*.synflood.me 20:15:26 -!- brah- [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has been kicked from #lisp by Xach (Go away again.) 20:15:45 grats to brah for being here no more 20:15:58 brah- has a history of abusing this channel. 20:16:01 heh... I like how he used uninformed statistics ;-) 20:16:09 -!- Xach has set mode -o Xach 20:16:16 statistics abuse ... yummy. 20:16:39 *_6502_* finally got "lisp in small pieces" 20:17:16 is that a book or something 20:17:26 brookeGarcia: yup. 20:17:28 *udzinari* wishes he knew about it when that amazon.ca thingie happened 20:17:29 oh cool 20:18:26 are they counting also servers?? 20:18:39 FYI, brah- is threatening to contact "danb" to revoke my ops. 20:18:55 Xach: lolz 20:18:56 That's not as bad as last time, when he threatened to have his cousin kline me permanently... 20:19:05 darkestkhan: no, they are only counting OSes used for browsing... 20:19:18 udzinari: it didn't really work. 20:19:31 darkestkhan: if they tried to count *all* of computing, JavaCard-compatible OSes would be before any mobile phone one ;-) 20:20:43 I'm wondering what the ru_nvcsw slot in the structure returned by getrusage is, the manpage says "voluntary context switches"; well what's that exactly? Syscalls? If so, it seems that getrusage does not involve a syscall... does the mean that the relevant information is mapped from kernel into userspace? 20:20:44 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.72.248] has joined #lisp 20:20:46 i didn't know about that website, it's quite interesting. 20:21:21 -!- nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:22:14 mejja [~user@c-35bce555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:24:22 i don't believe in statistics they are almost always false 20:24:53 then what do you believe in? 20:25:12 The inspirational power of Lisp, hopefully. 20:25:44 zoldar [~zoldar@ods82.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:26:41 propably yes :) 20:27:11 -!- davertron [~Dave@vt-sb-1.logicsupply.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:27:12 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 20:28:44 I believe in statistics. Particularly those expressed on logarithmic scales 20:29:41 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 20:29:55 hello, I'm trying to setup vim to work with sbcl through slimv plugin. So far everything seems to work besides one problem, when sbcl server is run by slimv. When I make an error in repl it fires up debugger with choice of action - the problem is it doesn't react to any input. What can be the cause of this? 20:30:41 so I see a sudden increase of nvcsw by 10, and -- if these numbers are to be trusted -- a resulting wall clock increase by over half a second, and a very slight increase of run-time (0.04sec). I'm wondering what's the cause of that. GC is actually logged via *after-gc-hooks* 20:30:57 zoldar: do you have an understanding how slimv works? 20:30:57 tcr: I'm not an expert on this, but I'd say syscalls aren't context switches, and a voluntary context switch would be something where you yield because you wait (say, on I/O) as opposed to to a situation where the OS switches away because you're consuming CPU for a long time. 20:31:15 zoldar: facetiously, you problem is not using emacs + slime. When in rome n all. 20:31:37 drewc: He could help building New Rome. 20:32:06 Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-179-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:06 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-179-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:32:06 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 20:32:10 (fsvo"long") 20:32:24 tcr: to be honest, not really at the moment 20:32:28 why bother building new rome?? you have emacs... and there is viper mode... 20:32:32 tcr: on shoddy foundations though, imo. I'd rather see New Rome built from climacs or hemlock 20:32:55 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Client Quit] 20:32:59 are there any SBCL devs around? 20:33:02 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 20:33:14 zoldar: I hope you are not long time vim user.. because emacs+slime really is the way.. 20:33:18 zoldar: Does it use threads? 20:33:38 zoldar: entering the debugger from a thread other than the main thread does not currently work in SBCL. 20:33:53 tcr, I'm not sure, I didn't dig in internals yet 20:34:00 So do 20:34:03 -!- fatblueduck [~chris@pool-71-104-235-97.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 20:34:16 zoldar: I took the switch to emacs+slime too... it takes a while to get used to, but it really boils down to the same efficiency gain as vim. emacs is easier to extend imho (but in a non-lisp world vim is fine too) 20:34:30 the problem is I'm pretty bound to vim 20:34:46 Are kids in play? 20:34:57 zoldar: that's _your_ problem.. now what can you do to solve it? 20:35:15 ok, nevermind then 20:35:28 it's just that vim is a text editor 20:35:40 drewc: don't troll please 20:35:45 mishoo [~mishoo@host102-108-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 20:35:47 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-6-220.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:35:50 and it's much nicer to develop lisp in some sort of interactive environment 20:35:56 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:35:57 zoldar: could it be some sort of key combination or mode switch which you need? 20:36:17 drewc: vim can be interactive too, it's only a lot harder to write something that makes vim interactive 20:36:17 madnificent: piss off ya? how is that a troll? 20:36:42 madnificent: vim is a text editor that eas never intended to be used in the way emacs is. 20:36:44 tried viper mode or vim-like-emacs (I don't remember exact name but there is something like that, though I never used it) 20:37:00 madnificent: there has been a lot of work to bolt on such features, but they are obviously bolt on 20:37:22 madnificent: i use vim for editing text all the time, it's an excellent editor 20:37:36 while Emacs is a an editor bolted on top of programming language (this is true since first versions...) 20:37:43 -!- billitch [~billitch@dslb-088-075-060-021.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:37:58 zoldar: slime + emacs is the currently best supported CL development environment. If you want to use anything else, you'll end up being involved in the development of the environment itself 20:38:09 madnificent: but when compared to a customised emacs with paredit + redshank + slime, it's obviously inferiour _as a lisp programming environment_ 20:38:12 so if you just want to code lisp, use emacs. 20:38:24 if you want to spend the time building vi+lisp tools, then be prepared to do so 20:38:40 *p_l* used to be a big ViM user as well, though lately the role of ViM was taken by Nano and ED 20:38:52 I've tried to setup myself up with emacs using viper-mode, but maybe didn't give it an honest effort. I thought that I would get away with the additional work of learning emacs. Just wanted to get straight to working with cl.. but.. oh well 20:39:33 zoldar: As you can probably see, you won't get a lot of help. This isn't really the channel for any editor/editing environment (though usually you can get a smidgen of slime help). I suggest working with the author/mailing list for slimv directly :) 20:39:50 ok, I got the message 20:40:08 zoldar: you need to learn about 4 keystrokes to start using emacs and slime... there is no need to become an emacs guru... it has a fairly decent text editor built in. 20:40:14 drewc: yes, emacs makes it easier to do these things. That still doesn't mean you shouldn't try to help users in other environments. Maybe zoldar used VIm for 10 years and has loads of customizations for it. In that case it may be better for him to keep using VIm and try to get his environment working. 20:40:35 drewc: you weren't particularly friendly imo 20:40:39 madnificent: If zoldar used PHP for 10 years, should we make lisp more like PHP? 20:40:51 drewc: No logic allowed 20:40:58 herbieB: no worries, that's not logic 20:41:20 madnificent: i'm not trying to be his friend, i'm trying to make sure he has a smooth time with CL and produces quality code. 20:41:21 Sounded like logic to me :P 20:42:10 herbieB: We're not changing CL to suit VIm here, so it's a broken comparison ;) 20:42:53 madnificent: you're asking him to use a hammer when we've got a CDC machine. 20:42:59 Yeah, slimv tries to change vim to suit CL. So I guess a more apt comparison would be asnwering php questions in here, still silly :) 20:43:02 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:43:21 drewc: and being rude clearly gives them a lot of fun using lisp... Wouldn't that give lisp a negative connotation? 20:43:48 herbieB: In your vim thingie, do you use threads for anything? 20:43:51 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 20:44:15 tcr: Yes. vim actually doesn't do a damn thing, it's just an editor. I use python threads to send info to and from the CL process 20:44:40 tcr: So everything that's happening in nekthuth is behind a threadwall 20:44:43 herbieB: I mean do you use threads on the CL side 20:44:49 madnificent: you're of the opinion that i was rude, and that this doesn't help. I'm of the opioning that i am passionate about doing things right, and i don't feel the need to temper my passion. If that offends somebody, so be it. 20:44:58 tcr: When running in hosted mode, yes. 20:45:13 madnificent: what that has to do with the connotation of anything besides drewc, i don't see. 20:45:14 herbieB: Have you written your own debugger? 20:45:15 herbieB: also, say that many php users would move to CL, then maybe it would be good to have a manual of some sort which would guide them from php to lisp... Trying to make the transition easier. 20:45:31 tcr: When running booted from vim, I just use stdin/stdout, but if you want to connect nekthuth to a remote, you can connect as many as like and they get their own thread 20:45:55 tcr: Yes 20:46:21 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:46:27 drewc: yes it was offensive. What you said wasn't wrong though. If you'd be passionate about it, then you'd realize that you shouldn't be a brute to new people. 20:46:35 madnificent: Sure, but if they came in here and said "Man, i wanna do X in php that I can do in CL" we'd say "Use CL..." 20:47:03 herbieB: that's yet another thing... but that would be acceptable in #lisp, yes... however, this is not #emacs ;) 20:47:27 madnificent: Emacs is lisp. Lisp is emacs. Or so I ehar. 20:47:27 madnificent: 'a brute'? piss off... i'll stop being a brute when you stop being a whingy wanker.. deal? 20:47:45 herbieB: true, but this channel is about Common Lisp, not just any lisp :) 20:47:58 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 20:48:10 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-135-10.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire.] 20:48:29 and the primary common lisp development environement is emacs + slime. 20:48:45 *madnificent* stops talking to the wall 20:48:59 thank $deity 20:51:31 herbieB: you're running vim + common lisp? 20:51:58 madnificent: Yes 20:52:21 madnificent: On prob 102 on euler in it too! Yay euler. 20:52:45 -!- netytan [~netytan@85.211.63.239] has quit [Quit: netytan] 20:52:50 madnificent: Emacs and Common Lisp share a long cultural history 20:53:18 so you can link zoldar to how you did it so he can at least get started? 20:53:31 herbieB: So why not suggest your creation to zoldar? 20:53:52 madnificent: He was asking a question as to why slimv wasn't doing what he wants. I don't use slimv 20:53:53 tcr: flaming is more fun ^_^ 20:54:08 sigh, why do lispers only answer to literate questions? 20:54:11 tcr: I generally don't suggest nekthuth to anyone because it doesn't have an inspector nor debugger in the released version 20:54:25 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-153-248.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:54:25 tcr: Until I wrap those two up, I consider it grossly inferior to slime 20:54:42 herbieB: it'll always be inferior to slime, it lacks emacs ^_^ 20:55:08 madnificent: Actually, it'll be superior to slime if slime continues to lean on emacs lisp as a crutch. But that's just a personal belief. 20:55:28 herbieB: slime is written in elisp. 20:55:38 the emacs part is (: 20:55:47 antifuchs: the rest is SWANK ;) 20:55:49 the non-emacs part isn't called slime :) 20:55:50 the more interesting part is in cl (: 20:56:06 Hahah, ok, I feel that slime+swank will get better as code moves from slime to swank :P 20:56:10 madnificent, so far I just did standard install of slimv plugin on defaults with some paths set to fit my setup, nothing unusual. But I think that I'll give up on this and get back to getting familiar with emacs+slime 20:56:19 that part is still in the slime repo, so q-: 20:56:20 herbieB: I don't know what you designed, it wasn't serious. Will you support emacs too? (and if so: do you have a some documents about your goals?) 20:56:37 madnificent: nekthuth.com ? 20:57:00 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:57:44 ugh sorry I got the message wrong, it wasn't to me 20:57:46 madnificent: You shoudl note that I dont' want nekthuth to compete with slime+swank. I feel slime is very non-vimmy, and so I will probably deviate from it drastically. 20:57:52 btw, is anyone here familiar with the cucumber integration testing thing? 20:58:10 I'm toying around with a cl adapter for it, might get done soonish (: 20:58:13 *blink* what? 20:58:18 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:58:46 -!- daniel___ is now known as daniel 20:59:02 herbieB: not really a big thing for me, but will there be a link to emacs? The home-page says 'no', but the manual says "your editor", so it may be easy to implement anyways. 20:59:16 turns out that cucumber has a wire protocol (passing around json), and it likes having step definitions written in other languages 20:59:31 madnificent: If someone really wanted to write an emacs frontend that connected to nekthuth..sure? I can't conceive of someone wanting to do that. 20:59:37 so, well, user story writing in cl (: 20:59:59 herbieB: if it would make it easier to do code hinting and stuff like that, then it might be worth the hassle 21:00:04 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-135-10.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 21:00:08 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:00:22 *pkhuong* takes the cvs lock :) 21:00:58 minion: conium? 21:00:58 conium: Conium is a portability library for debugger- and compiler-related tasks in Common Lisp. http://www.cliki.net/conium 21:01:19 madnificent: Code hinting? 21:01:23 Krystof: are you blinking at my use of "cucumber integration"? 21:01:30 yes 21:01:42 "why would you want to integrate a cucumber?" :-) 21:01:50 -!- Holcxjo [~holly@home.sinclair-durer.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:02:07 drewc: was that for me? 21:02:08 yeah, now that you mention it, it does feel somewhat ... xxx. 21:02:16 well I wasn't going to say it 21:02:22 -!- hdurer__ [~holly@home.sinclair-durer.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:02:26 but I googled with a certain amount of trepidation 21:02:43 Was safe search on? 21:02:46 understandable! 21:02:51 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 21:03:12 herbieB: the way the arguments to functions and macro's are hinted in emacs+slime 21:03:24 also, cucumber d(cucumber) = lots of little cucumber squares 21:03:47 madnificent: actually for herbieB as well, but really just a general pointer relevant to the converstation about editor integration 21:04:11 thanks 21:04:35 pkhuong: did you comment on the wrong bug? 21:05:01 I was going to suggest that it's perfectly valid to calculate the area below any given cucumber. 21:05:15 madnificent: I'll just do that in nekthuth eventually. 21:05:44 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 21:06:08 herbieB: in case you write a macro, it can be that only a certain amount of keywords can be used in a position, it could be nice if you could hint to the editor that you want it to be used in a particulay way. 21:06:31 minion: tell madnificent about editor-hints 21:06:31 madnificent: look at editor-hints: The estimable Tobias C Rittweiler is working to develop a CL library called editor hints that aims at giving a portable facility for a Lisp implementation to tell the development environment things about its state. http://www.cliki.net/editor-hints 21:06:55 -!- felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:07:03 licoress_ [~user@cm-84.209.103.64.getinternet.no] has joined #lisp 21:07:31 Krystof: darn, likely. 21:08:14 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@host102-108-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:10:30 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has left #lisp 21:10:55 drewc: doesn't seem like it's very far in development yet, but certainly very interesting 21:12:40 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-16-247-61.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:41 madnificent: some useful work has come out of the project already, such as named-readtables 21:13:49 minion: named-readtables? 21:13:50 named-readtables: Named-Readtables is a library that provides a namespace for readtables akin to the already-existing namespace of packages. http://www.cliki.net/named-readtables 21:15:37 drewc: have you used conium for anything? 21:18:14 Fade: yeah, running hemlock 21:19:23 the only time I used hemlock was when I was fooling around with the clozure cl ide on OSX. 21:20:06 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:21:19 drewc: yeah, that was on their site. Could improve what we have now 21:21:23 plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-108-126.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 21:23:18 -!- derrida [~derrida@unaffiliated/deleuze] has quit [Quit: brb] 21:24:06 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 21:28:09 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:28:12 Guthur [~Michael@host213-122-221-177.range213-122.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:28:36 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 21:30:42 -!- Pholious [~bla@dhcp-077-251-036-065.chello.nl] has quit [] 21:32:07 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 21:33:28 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@g229083235.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 21:36:31 -!- Davidbrcz [david@212-198-83-2.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:37:35 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 21:38:22 pkhuong: wasn't the last commit a fix for an lp submit of mine? 21:42:44 -!- francogrex [~user@91.177.48.170] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:43:50 basant [~basant@triband-mum-59.184.118.54.mtnl.net.in] has joined #lisp 21:44:53 -!- Lis [~Lis@dialbs-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 21:49:00 francogrex [~user@91.177.48.170] has joined #lisp 21:49:31 hi anyone tried settinga server in Cl with lighttpd succesfully (using cgi) ? 21:49:31 francogrex, memo from p_l|hospital: There's a win32 COM library based on CFFI available - http://github.com/quek/cl-win32ole 21:49:42 cool 21:50:05 francogrex: right not it's mostly OLE-oriented, but I think it should be possible to adapt it to most COM objects 21:50:47 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:51:06 p_l: I think it's the one I used to access excel 21:51:23 tcr: yup 21:51:33 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 21:51:55 I had written a few lines to read and write to excel files using cl-win32ole 21:51:56 netytan [~netytan@85.211.63.239] has joined #lisp 21:51:58 tcr: oh darn. Forgot to x-ref from the commit messages. They're in NEWS. 21:52:35 pkhuong: I mean the truncate one 21:52:52 tcr: didn't know that made it to lp. 21:54:16 perhaps I'm mistaken, wait 21:54:45 https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/568557 21:55:15 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 21:56:35 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 21:56:53 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-166-139.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: G'bye] 21:57:00 quodlibetor [~user@146.95.21.173] has joined #lisp 21:57:03 stupid. I've been waiting to commit most of these for almost 1 year. 21:57:12 gigamonk` [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-23-38.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:57:43 -!- redline6561 [~redline@gate-30.spsu.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:59:50 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:01:53 sledge [~sledge@pdpc/supporter/student/sledge] has joined #lisp 22:02:49 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:03:53 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:04:13 billstclair [~billstcla@dsl-65-219-212-221.taconic.net] has joined #lisp 22:04:13 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@dsl-65-219-212-221.taconic.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:04:13 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 22:04:44 Demosthenes [~demo@12.171.143.4] has joined #lisp 22:06:15 klapaucjusz [~jch@bob75-11-78-249-231-16.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 22:07:36 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@12.171.143.4] has quit [Client Quit] 22:07:44 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:08:03 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 22:11:42 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:12:45 Wombatzus [~user@216-31-242-4.static-ip.telepacific.net] has joined #lisp 22:15:20 -!- francogrex [~user@91.177.48.170] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:15:43 nurv [nurv@83.231.90.107] has joined #lisp 22:15:50 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:17:09 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 22:17:10 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 22:17:14 -!- mejja [~user@c-35bce555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 22:18:32 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:22:24 Fruktsoda [~EchoB@unaffiliated/fruktsoda] has joined #lisp 22:22:43 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:28:08 amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 22:30:04 Demosthenes [~demo@12.171.143.4] has joined #lisp 22:30:58 PeterT_ [~PeterT@c-76-19-212-58.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:31:28 -!- bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:32:00 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 22:33:25 -!- PeterT_ [~PeterT@c-76-19-212-58.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:35:07 lordakinator [~igaray@190.97.33.72] has joined #lisp 22:37:58 -!- nurv [nurv@83.231.90.107] has quit [] 22:38:17 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 22:38:18 are there any sbcl devs around? I've got something that's probably a bug 22:38:35 -!- zoldar [~zoldar@ods82.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:39:21 -!- rdd [~user@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:39:31 -!- shofetim [~user@c-76-23-45-193.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has left #lisp 22:40:11 -!- basant [~basant@triband-mum-59.184.118.54.mtnl.net.in] has quit [Quit: basant] 22:40:27 Spill it, friend 22:41:00 (write-to-string *random-state*) in the later (latest?) sbcl doesn't quote the dimensions of the array, shouldn't it do that? 22:43:19 madnificent: darn, mine's not late enough to try it. 22:43:46 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:44:00 Xach: yours does quote it? 22:44:08 madnificent: mine is one-dimensional 22:44:17 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 22:44:25 Mine is one-dimensional as well 22:44:32 *Xach* builds a new sbcl 22:44:37 madnificent: what version you got? 22:44:56 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 22:45:07 I'm on 1.0.37 for what it's worth 22:45:19 AMD64 Linux 22:45:24 mad pasted "unquoted dimension" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98402 22:46:35 -!- Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:46:35 -!- abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:46:45 -!- adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-250-95.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:48:40 madnificent: the suspense is killing me! 22:49:22 Well that is the same output I get on my version 22:49:31 Of course with different values 22:50:03 Sorry, mine has a list designator of a single integer. 22:50:16 No actual list, quoted or no 22:52:03 madnificent: i agree, and it looks like the buggy change was made by froydnj in february. 22:53:05 Xach: I built in on amd64 through clbuild 22:53:18 gwynddyllyd [~fintn@201.29.235.182] has joined #lisp 22:53:53 Xach: and I apparently can't find how I should fetch the version number from that 22:54:19 Its in *inferior-list* 22:54:24 Should be at the top 22:54:47 ah no, it's the gentoo one... that's 1.0.36.gentoo-r1 22:54:49 Well, when loading with SLIME anyhow 22:54:53 http://git.boinkor.net/gitweb/sbcl.git?a=commitdiff;h=c1a334ce597cc041447fe92f2e9adf2a5e295483 specifically 22:55:02 (lisp-implementation-version) 22:55:07 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@12.171.143.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:55:20 Guthur: in what package is that? 22:55:38 *madnificent* upgrades sbcl 22:55:40 madnificent, I meant the buffer 22:55:50 tcr's is a classier way though 22:56:03 madnificent: the latest from cvs has the bug. 22:56:39 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:56:54 -!- alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:56:56 Demosthenes [~demo@12.171.143.4] has joined #lisp 22:57:43 -!- faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has left #lisp 22:59:05 does anyone with a launchpad account want to file the bug? or should I create an account? 22:59:11 but you win a no-prize if you cleverly explain how it's not really a bug 22:59:23 how so? 22:59:45 that's just how a no-prize works 22:59:49 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 22:59:58 how is it not a bug? :) 23:00:05 is it allowed to use that syntax? 23:00:21 -!- quodlibetor [~user@146.95.21.173] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:00:53 madnificent: sorry, a no-prize is given for someone who discovers and then justifies a bug in some possibly contrived way. not really applicable in this situation. 23:01:49 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:02:28 it isn't my discovery either actually, Hans Hubner pointed me to it with respect to a failing bknr, he didn't have time to handle it though 23:03:47 s/hubner/Huebner/ 23:04:10 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:04:16 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:04:18 a hübnerbug 23:04:32 seamus-android_ [~alistair@host86-177-222-145.range86-177.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 23:04:47 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 23:05:13 anyways, drop a line here if someone reports it. I'll report it in an hour or 4 otherwise (bedtime :)) 23:05:33 fix should be committed in a couple minutes 23:05:47 oooh, no need to report then :) 23:05:58 now that's called fast support :D 23:06:35 -!- alistair [~alistair@host86-180-16-151.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:07:39 -!- eugu [~Miranda@212.1.246.237] has quit [Quit: eugu] 23:10:09 -!- seamus-android_ is now known as seamus-android 23:12:35 quodlibetor [~user@146.95.21.173] has joined #lisp 23:12:59 -!- lordakinator [~igaray@190.97.33.72] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:15:31 -!- stettberger [stettberge@2001:6f8:1209:f0:216:3eff:fe03:ff] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:15:49 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:18:42 stettberger [stettberge@2001:6f8:1209:f0:216:3eff:fe03:ff] has joined #lisp 23:20:26 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@12.171.143.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:22:42 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 23:23:28 Demosthenes [~demo@12.171.143.4] has joined #lisp 23:24:01 mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-74-68-121-85.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:24:03 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 23:24:44 -!- klapaucjusz [~jch@bob75-11-78-249-231-16.fbx.proxad.net] has left #lisp 23:31:13 ale_ [~ale@109.76.76.44] has joined #lisp 23:31:52 hi, is there a way to globally declare (optimize (debug 3))? 23:32:22 clhs declaim 23:32:22 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_declai.htm 23:32:32 -!- laynor is now known as Guest29494 23:33:39 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:35:03 thank you very much :) 23:35:56 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:36:00 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 23:42:55 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:44:09 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.12.21] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:46:24 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@12.171.143.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:47:25 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:47:33 Demosthenes [~demo@12.171.143.4] has joined #lisp 23:48:11 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:49:54 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-078-042-205-245.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:50:08 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:57:19 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@12.171.143.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:58:11 Demosthenes [~demo@12.171.143.4] has joined #lisp