00:00:49 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 00:02:36 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:04:02 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:04:24 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 00:06:45 konr [~konrad@201.82.136.100] has joined #lisp 00:06:53 -!- Joreji [~thomas@71-255.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:08:54 fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 00:10:49 -!- Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:11:42 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:12:04 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 00:16:43 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:18:24 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 00:19:22 mustki [~mustki@41.155.31.223] has joined #lisp 00:19:34 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.146] has joined #lisp 00:19:47 hi 00:19:52 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 00:21:39 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:21:55 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 00:23:01 I finally get cl-pdf+clisp to output pdfs without stream-element-type problems only to end up with utf-8-as-8859 encoding issues. 00:23:10 *pinterface* feels like Charlie Brown right about now. 00:23:18 pinterface: Good grief! 00:23:32 :) 00:24:07 So, is the problem Lucy with the football, or the kite-eating tree? 00:28:00 Hrm... well, I seem to have stuck clisp in an infinite loop with my last change, so I'll go with kite-eating tree. 00:34:39 -!- mustki [~mustki@41.155.31.223] has quit [Quit: As flies to wanton boys are we to the gods; they kill us for their sport. -- Shakespeare, King Lear] 00:34:45 Yeah, kite-eating tree is the more apt metaphor. 00:35:01 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 00:35:15 Since lucy-with-the-football would have to literally call to you, where for the tree you're just trying to get something done. 00:35:25 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:36:02 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 00:36:11 Why (setf ext:*default-external-format* charset:utf-8) and re-running sent things spinning into oblivion, though, is beyond me. 00:36:47 Er, *default-file-encoding* 00:37:01 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 00:38:13 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:38:25 wedgeV [~wedge@76.15.193.195] has joined #lisp 00:38:31 Ah well. It runs on SBCL, so I'll figure it out later. 00:38:33 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 00:39:22 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@76.15.193.195] has quit [Client Quit] 00:42:22 mustki [~mustki@41.155.31.223] has joined #lisp 00:42:31 -!- felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has quit [Quit: felipe] 00:43:02 hello 00:43:37 lisp downloadable? 00:46:26 yes 00:46:35 thanks 00:46:37 np 00:46:43 i am aa novice 00:46:56 i am an undergraduate 00:47:05 we were tot in sch 00:47:15 recently in AI 00:47:28 i am very much interested in it 00:47:40 minion: tell mustki about sbcl 00:47:40 but do not no aw 2 go about it 00:47:40 mustki: look at sbcl: Steel Bank Common Lisp is an open source / free software Common Lisp implementation. http://www.cliki.net/sbcl 00:47:50 minion: tell mustki about pcl 00:47:51 mustki: look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 00:48:20 wow 00:48:24 thanks a lot 00:48:41 is it HLL or LLL? 00:48:51 can serve well as both 00:49:08 oops 00:49:20 i do web design 00:49:29 can it b used 4 web dev 00:49:38 yes 00:49:55 PCL has some chapters about a web application 00:49:58 interesting 00:50:03 okay 00:50:15 -!- Guthur [~Michael@host213-122-221-177.range213-122.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Computer says no] 00:52:15 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:54:05 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:54:54 dialtone [~dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:54:54 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:54:54 dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 00:55:14 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:55:17 -!- ysph [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:55:21 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:55:40 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 00:57:13 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 01:00:24 -!- schme [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:01:33 i use dreamweaver very well and need to go into web dev 01:01:37 schme [~marcus@c83-254-196-101.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 01:01:37 -!- schme [~marcus@c83-254-196-101.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Changing host] 01:01:37 schme [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 01:01:51 can i use asp.net (c sharp) for powerful web applications on dreamweaver? 01:02:10 like chating online applications? 01:02:11 -!- yahooooo7 [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: changing servers] 01:02:44 heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeellllllllllllllllo 01:02:50 can i use asp.net (c sharp) for powerful web applications on dreamweaver? 01:03:15 some say i should use php 01:03:16 yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:03:18 mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-075-189-213-049.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:03:22 }o/ 01:03:24 err 01:03:26 \o/ 01:03:40 wat? 01:04:09 -!- nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:04:43 that's probably a question you should ask in a web development channel, rather than a Lisp channel... there's no guarantee that everyone or anyone here has used asp.net or dreamweaver 01:04:54 mustki: nothing :) 01:05:01 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 01:05:21 I'm a bit on alcohol. Don't know the right word. The state you are in before you are really drunk. :) 01:05:41 tipsy? 01:05:45 It's 3am in here and tomorrow's school(-like thing) 01:05:46 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:05:50 not my biz 01:06:07 Well it was kinda my birthday 01:06:11 also a student 01:06:23 ur bday? 01:06:28 beautiful 01:06:30 Yep. 01:06:30 Try talking privately instead. 01:06:32 nah 01:06:33 congrats 01:06:35 i'm an old bastard 01:06:52 Friends, let us chat of Lisp. 01:07:01 lisp? 01:07:05 nop 01:07:11 relax 01:07:27 lets chat about asp.net or play 01:07:34 mustki: Feel free, elsewhere. 01:07:36 hmn. 01:07:46 elsewhere? 01:07:54 I don't think I can comprehend large amounts of parantheses right now... 01:08:08 gonna put the laptop away take a piss and get drunk 01:08:09 y? 01:08:17 no 01:08:20 no no no 01:08:24 dont! 01:08:27 easy! 01:08:34 life is simple bro 01:08:49 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.194.244] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 01:09:05 mustki: Go away. 01:09:24 rme [~rme@pool-70-104-124-149.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:10:00 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 01:12:11 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 01:12:43 -!- Xach changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: Clozure CL 1.5, ELS 2010 registration open, ECL 10.4.1 01:12:52 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:13:05 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 01:13:58 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:15:05 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:15:36 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 01:15:52 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.146] has joined #lisp 01:16:16 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:16:47 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 01:17:27 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:17:58 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 01:18:37 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:19:09 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 01:19:15 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:19:48 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:20:19 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 01:20:59 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:21:15 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 01:21:30 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 01:22:10 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:22:41 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 01:23:21 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:23:52 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 01:23:56 -!- rme [rme@clozure-74D12576.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 01:23:56 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-104-124-149.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 01:24:32 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:24:42 DrDuck [~DrDuck@adsl-81-6-119.hsv.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:25:03 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 01:25:43 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:26:14 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 01:26:16 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@130.166.209.12] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 01:26:54 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:27:25 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 01:28:04 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:28:35 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 01:29:15 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:29:37 -!- mustki [~mustki@41.155.31.223] has quit [Quit: When angry, count four; when very angry, swear. -- Mark Twain, PuddŽnhead WilsonŽs Calendar] 01:29:47 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:30:28 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:30:42 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 01:31:40 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 01:36:41 kumi [~kumi@li63-187.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 01:38:25 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 01:40:05 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:40:59 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:41:07 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 01:41:30 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 01:46:14 -!- kumi is now known as fusss 01:47:49 allowing your users to customize output destination by printing to *custom-stream* .. 1 point 01:48:17 using *custom-stream* only through a single macro, and encapsulating all output .. 2 points 01:48:35 -!- saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: saikat] 01:48:37 exporting neither the special variable, nor the wrapping macro .. priceless 01:49:00 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:49:23 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 01:49:34 cl-who, the best ad-hoc non-xml xml emitter 01:50:47 xml-emitter just needs about 3 more hours to TLC to make it awesome 01:53:21 i'm pretty fond of yacml 01:56:16 rme [~rme@pool-70-104-124-149.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:56:29 Fade: doesn't it have that huge dependency? 01:57:49 felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has joined #lisp 01:59:15 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:59:22 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 02:02:52 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 02:03:10 huge? hrmn 02:03:15 not by any modern standard. 02:04:09 -!- htk_ [~htk_@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:04:20 benny [~benny@i577A12A6.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 02:05:05 Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:06:30 Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 02:06:46 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:07:06 xml-emitter has one dependency 02:07:11 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-2-149-199.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:07:20 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 02:07:21 and my 20-liner :uses :cl 02:08:15 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 02:08:46 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 02:08:57 folks, how do i delay the evaluation of a macro argument without quoting? 02:09:38 (macro (argument)) where ARGUMENT is a function. i want the function to be evaluated in the context of the macro, not outside of it 02:10:21 what's "context of the macro" 02:10:21 stassats, memo from tcr: Re: slime-update-threads-buffer: a) it does not check whether a connection is alive; b) better do not use slime-eval there, but slime-eval-async. 02:11:04 I imagine this question has come up before, is there a way to have sbcl treat a SAP (say returned from something foreign) as a vector? 02:11:24 (defmacro macro (&body body) (let ((s (gensym))) `(with-foo (,s) ,@body))))) 02:12:10 i want ARGUMENT to be run in a context where S is bound to something other than the value of S within ARGUMENT's body; where S is special 02:12:49 nm, let does what i want 02:15:48 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:16:19 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 02:22:11 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:23:49 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:24:20 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 02:28:26 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:29:45 (declare ,s special) might be useful there. 02:29:55 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@c-67-188-5-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gonzojive_] 02:30:58 Although gensym kind of limits that utility. 02:34:31 -!- potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f6651b7-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [] 02:35:32 dialtone [~dialtone@c-67-180-50-184.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:35:32 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@c-67-180-50-184.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 02:35:32 dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 02:38:25 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:41:04 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:41:58 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:42:55 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 02:42:57 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:43:15 is there something in CL that will create an 'iterator object'? Like (setf foo-iter (make-iter '(9 42)) (next foo-iter) => 9 (next foo-iter) => 42 (next foo-iter) => nil (next foo-iter) => 9. I could create my own easy enough, but. 02:43:38 -!- necroforest [~jarred@pool-71-191-247-161.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 02:44:08 sure, closures 02:44:32 CL has no built-in support for user generated iterators. 02:44:34 heh, that's what I ment by creating my own ;) 02:44:45 ok, fair enough 02:45:03 If cons were subclassable it would be easy. 02:45:14 bytecolor: (let ((blah 9)) (lambda () (setf blah (1+ blah)) blah)), or something like that 02:45:49 CL has poor extensibility for built-ins. 02:46:14 why do you need to extend them in that case? 02:46:26 Zhivago: Surely Scheme, Dylan, Newlisp, and Clojure are not much better. 02:46:37 Well, if you could subclass CONS, then you could use mapcar, dolist, et all 02:46:45 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0090-205-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 02:47:05 makoryu: If I am surrounded by retards that doesn't make me any smarter. 02:47:18 you could probably use a convoluted continuation in scheme 02:47:44 or a closure ;) 02:47:45 Zhivago: Ah, Czech aphorisms, as it were. 02:48:02 With scheme you can invert iterators into mappings using continuations, yes. 02:48:19 Zhivago: SBCL, user-defined sequences? 02:48:38 -!- DrDuck [~DrDuck@adsl-81-6-119.hsv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:48:38 Well, he did say CL, but if you're after SBCL, then sure. 02:49:01 is there a public place where one can see chat logs of this channel? 02:49:08 minion: logs 02:49:08 logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 02:49:14 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:49:19 thanks 02:49:26 minion: thanks! 02:49:26 no problem 02:49:33 ISTR at least one other implementation adopted it, but I'm not recalling details. 02:50:32 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 02:51:34 is anybody using extensible sequences for something? 02:53:06 stassats: tcr's new hack? 02:53:18 errr, xophe's says google 02:53:25 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 02:53:26 what's that? 02:54:30 http://www.doc.gold.ac.uk/~mas01cr/papers/ilc2007/sequences-20070301.pdf 02:54:44 that's the description of them 02:55:18 i'm asking if anybody is using it for something cool 02:55:18 is there an implementation that's widely used? 02:55:24 sbcl 02:56:19 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:56:24 what is your definition of something cool? 02:56:50 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 02:57:08 eastwind: so, you're aware of some uses? 02:57:36 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:58:01 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 02:58:28 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:58:41 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:59:12 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 02:59:13 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 02:59:52 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:00:06 stassats: heh. just saw your reply. That sure is one cute minion 03:00:23 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 03:00:48 amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 03:01:03 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:01:34 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 03:02:14 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:02:45 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:02:54 saikat [~saikat@adsl-99-138-83-148.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:12:51 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-168-152-229.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:13:35 -!- marioxcc-AFK [~user@200.52.211.142] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:13:50 -!- Shaftoe [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096725400.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Shaftoe] 03:14:48 potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f665365-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 03:15:55 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 03:16:37 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:17:28 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 03:17:47 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:20:23 Good morning! 03:21:10 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 03:21:13 bytecolor pasted "vector iter" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98120 03:21:30 how's that for a first attempt 03:21:51 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 03:22:03 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-19-142.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 03:22:19 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:22:35 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 03:22:37 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-35-208.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:22:49 morning, beach 03:23:29 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:24:01 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 03:26:46 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:26:55 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:27:26 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 03:27:27 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:27:44 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 03:28:01 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:28:06 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:28:34 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 03:28:37 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 03:29:10 -!- myu2 [~myu2@w179122.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:29:17 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:29:48 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 03:30:28 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:30:51 -!- eastwind is now known as segmond 03:31:00 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 03:31:39 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:32:10 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 03:32:40 so i have decided to learn common lisp, but 900+ reserved symbols seems a bit daunting. :-O 03:32:49 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:33:28 segmond: so try scheme first, that's what I did ;) 03:33:33 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 03:33:44 segmond: Most of them are nonsense words like TERPRI and NCONC 03:33:47 bytecolor, i don't want to mess with scheme. 03:34:00 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:34:05 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:34:13 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:34:18 I'm at a 110, slowly but surely. LOL. 03:34:44 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 03:34:49 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.146] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:35:02 makoryu, so how much of em do you think one needs to really know to move a bunch of mountains with? 03:35:10 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 03:35:12 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:35:15 segmond: CAR, CDR, EVAL, and APPLY 03:35:20 °° 03:35:30 there's only 978 symbols, you can get away with only 950 03:35:43 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:35:43 (alexandria:with-output-file (stream path :direction :output)) ==error can't specify direction, even though it takes a direction argument as per auto-completion 03:36:09 it's damn near like learning a natural language 03:36:36 -!- dabd [~dabd@a81-84-79-105.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 03:37:19 fusss: the purpose is to give you an error, so that you don't pass in :input.. I'd think warning about it and then ignoring would have been nicer 03:38:38 segmond: Most of that is standard library junk. 03:38:42 no one flamed my def-vector-macro, I'll take that as a passing grade 03:39:15 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 03:39:16 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:39:47 def-vector-iter macro, that is 03:39:50 zhivago, why do you have junk at the end of that statement? 03:39:50 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 03:39:55 in scheme you'll just need to implement what CL got yourself, or use a library 03:40:05 or tie yourself to an implementation 03:40:13 stassats, how many reserved symbols does scheme have? 03:40:24 segmond: CAR, CDR, EVAL, and APPLY 03:40:25 couple of hundreds, i'm not sure 03:40:27 segmond: what's a "reserved symbol" 03:40:36 segmond: google R5RS 03:41:15 adeht, these http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Front/X_AllSym.htm 03:41:45 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:42:16 the only reason I mentioned scheme is because you mentioned the number of symbols in CL, something I found depressing at first as well. Scheme on the other foot, has a much smaller set of symbols you can almost squeeze into your head at once. 03:42:40 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Client Quit] 03:42:42 segmond: Scheme has none of those 03:43:40 but scheme also has 'issues' as mentioned 03:44:03 so CL it is! 03:44:30 bytecolor: don't forget to add MOP, couple of libraries, extensions of a couple of implementations, and some internals 03:46:09 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:46:31 bytecolor: that macro looks misguided 03:47:02 Scheme's biggest problem is hygienic macros 03:47:12 Real programmers *never* wash their macros. 03:47:19 Or shower. 03:47:30 ahaha 03:47:40 but i want rational programmers 03:48:33 so i and l sould be gensym'd? 03:48:36 Or do you want imaginary ones? 03:48:43 -!- wormphlegm [wormphlegm@c-24-17-108-64.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:48:57 Nah, too complex. 03:49:14 bytecolor: why do you set a symbol's function cell 03:49:58 adeht: mostly due to ingorance of CL, so I dont have to (funcall foo-iter) 03:50:43 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:50:52 (foo-iter) => next-item, instead of (funcall foo-ter) => next-item 03:51:12 bytecolor: there are several problems with the macro. you're evaluating V twice, your sentinel (not "sentinal") is a bad approach, and the way to create a local function is by using flet or labels 03:51:17 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 03:51:18 Maybe you want flet? 03:51:37 bytecolor: I'd start with a function creating this iterator function 03:51:49 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has left #lisp 03:52:10 I actually did start that way, but macro-the-magic-man wall calling me ;) 03:52:18 *was 03:52:35 Ah, man walls ... 03:52:40 bytecolor: then, have a macro that expands to a call to that function and defines a local function to call it 03:52:42 I haven't used flet yet, have to read up 03:53:00 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 03:53:20 also, I'm not sure how you plan on using this.. 03:53:53 adent just a closure I can call any time and get the next item in a vector 03:53:59 that's pretty much it 03:54:33 bytecolor: you could look at with-hash-table-iterator or with-package-iterator and model your macro on that 03:54:47 hrm 03:55:49 then again, if you're using sbcl, you can already use sb-sequence:with-sequence-iteraotr 03:55:53 *iterator 03:56:10 *fusss* needs a slime hack to pretty-print defclass forms and vertically arrange columns for slot options 03:56:28 I'm an sbcl whore, don't plan on using any other lisp 03:56:34 minion: redshank? 03:56:34 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``redshank''. 03:57:04 fusss: redshank, that's what you're looking for 03:57:12 -!- rabuf [~user@ip68-230-168-93.mc.at.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:57:25 balooga [~00u4440@adsl-99-131-62-220.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:57:31 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 03:57:58 stassats: yeah? thanks :-) 03:58:03 yeah! 03:58:12 bytecolor: ccl == sweet 03:58:35 reprore_ [~reprore@p4b216c.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:59:25 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:59:52 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 03:59:59 adeht: I was actually wondering about the whole sentinel bit. I have used hash tables in CL and the way nil is handled came to mind. But for what I'm doing with it, shouldnt be a problem. It's a one-off. 04:00:21 if it's a one off, why use a vector-iterator? 04:01:17 adeht: the vector will hold values that will be added to the eye Y coordinate at each frame if the player is preforming a jump. 04:02:00 the eye height, not necessarily Y 04:02:33 I'm not sure what that has to do with vector-iterator 04:03:09 just keep the vector and the index.. 04:03:10 at each frame I call (jump-iter) => value to add to the eye height 04:03:23 if you want to _add_ values, your iterator doesn't do you any good either 04:03:26 ysph [~user@adsl-221-200-236.mgm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 04:03:44 likely, you want a vector with a fill-pointer 04:04:02 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 04:04:06 the values stored are cached cosines, which I dont want to re-compute each time 04:04:36 again, what does this have to do with vector-iterator? 04:05:18 adeht: so you mean just have a local index into the vector 04:05:46 ok, I see 04:06:28 I think sometimes I want to try different ways just to make me learn more of CL ;) 04:07:04 well, if you want to learn the CL way of things, it's a good idea to look at the things that are already existing 04:07:14 i.e. with-hash-table-iterator and friends 04:07:46 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:09:05 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 04:09:29 hrm, I dunno I think the iterator would abstract away the process a bit better. That's probably what I was getting at. one call to (jump-iter) instead of a local index var coupled with code to access the vector and test if Im at the end. 04:09:37 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:10:32 if you want a function to call instead, that is not a job for a macro 04:11:20 I think of a macro as a way to bend the language to do exactly what I want to do ;) 04:11:28 however, when you have a function stored somewhere and want to call it, you use funcall. CL is not scheme 04:11:51 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-214-244.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:11:56 adeht: nod, that _is_ something I carried over from scheme 04:12:02 I realize that now 04:12:06 Naggum once gave a with-functions macro that you might find convenient, but it's really not CL style 04:13:23 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 04:14:21 bytecolor: well, what you want to do isn't always a good idea.. people make mistakes 04:14:26 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 04:15:24 bytecolor: and your macro, for instance, has these problems I mentioned.. setting a symbol's function is pretty bad; multiple evaluation is pretty bad; the times of evaluation don't make sense. 04:16:04 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:16:36 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 04:17:15 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:17:47 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 04:18:26 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:18:58 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 04:19:37 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:20:08 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 04:20:48 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:21:19 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 04:21:19 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 04:21:20 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:21:32 -!- konr [~konrad@201.82.136.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:21:59 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:22:30 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 04:23:10 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:23:12 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-104-124-149.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 04:23:41 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 04:24:21 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:24:31 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 04:24:52 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 04:25:12 -!- Samuel9999 [tt@unaffiliated/samuel9999] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:25:31 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:26:03 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 04:26:28 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:26:42 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:27:05 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 04:27:13 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 04:27:30 quodlibetor [~user@ool-45723726.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:27:30 Xantoz [~hejhej@c-e2b6e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 04:27:51 there has GOT to be something better than SOAP for distributed systems integration and remote services. gotta be. 04:27:53 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:28:24 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 04:29:04 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:29:34 maus [~maus@222.253.78.4] has joined #lisp 04:29:35 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 04:29:53 Good afternoon! 04:30:01 when lousy programmers produce something, they afflict pain on themselves and those after them. when lousy "systems architects" do something, they afflict pain on everyone. 04:30:15 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:30:46 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:31:14 also, pro-tip for lousy systems architects out there. The SOAP security book recommends passing session variable in the header. that's the SOAP-HEADER, not the HTTP headers you dipshits. 04:31:21 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:32:22 that's why you have the mustUnderstand attribute; http headers get stripped by intermdiaries (I am talking to YOU sugarcrm) 04:32:28 alright, done ranting :-D 04:33:36 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:34:18 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 04:34:57 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:35:02 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 04:35:59 -!- saikat [~saikat@adsl-99-138-83-148.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: saikat] 04:39:12 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:39:27 -!- smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:39:54 where did I see rules for naming predicates? I think if the symbol has a hyphen in it, you add -p, else p 04:41:25 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:41:30 bytecolor: you always do -p, that's what defstruct does by default 04:41:38 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:41:44 e.g. ATOM-P 04:42:30 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:42:32 fusss: hrm, I know I read some style protocol somewhere, maybe in CLtL2 04:42:48 smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:43:00 bytecolor: yes, that's from CLtL2 04:43:13 bytecolor: personally I always do -p 04:43:31 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:43:56 adeht: nod *jumpingp* vs *jumping-p* 04:44:02 knobo` [~user@90.149.5.35] has joined #lisp 04:44:16 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 04:44:16 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 04:44:49 incidentally, I don't use it for variable names.. so *jumping* 04:44:50 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 04:45:13 but others differ, of course 04:45:29 -!- knobo [~user@90.149.5.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:47:37 (unless the variables are supposed to refer to predicates) 04:48:36 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:49:04 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 04:54:41 -!- fnordus [~dnall@70.70.0.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:56:53 fnordus [~dnall@70.70.0.215] has joined #lisp 04:57:37 -!- brookeGarcia [~brookeGar@dsl-149-94.aei.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:00:13 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 05:00:32 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:01:07 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:01:19 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-pducgmkdtjsgkwps] has joined #lisp 05:02:15 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 05:05:37 konr [~konrad@201.82.136.100] has joined #lisp 05:07:11 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:11:25 -!- fnordus [~dnall@70.70.0.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:13:15 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 05:15:01 fnordus [~dnall@70.70.0.215] has joined #lisp 05:16:34 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 05:18:40 scotty [~scott@66.112.249.228] has joined #lisp 05:19:12 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:19:30 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 05:25:03 saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:25:07 Can someone explain what this is doing?: ((lambda (x) x 5) 42) 05:25:26 (It returns 5.) 05:25:58 scotty: It applies a fucntion to 42, then it evaluates its argument (42) and throws it away. Finally it evaluates 5 and returns it. 05:26:13 scotty: you just explained it yourself! 05:26:27 So "2 3" is a valid lisp expression? 05:26:37 scotty: no 05:26:49 Well, what I see is "42 5" 05:26:58 it has an implicit progn 05:27:00 scotty: A function has an implicit progn. 05:27:07 so it's (progn 42 5) 05:27:08 What's progn? 05:27:14 clhs progn 05:27:14 clhs progn 05:27:14 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_progn.htm 05:27:14 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_progn.htm 05:27:20 stassats: heh! 05:27:39 Okay 05:27:40 scotty: you need to read some introductory text 05:27:45 minion: tell scotty about PCL 05:27:46 scotty: please see PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 05:28:04 I wanted to do: ((lambda (x) x 5) (lambda (x) (+ x 3))) 05:28:04 puddingpimp [~dave@118-93-74-47.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #lisp 05:28:30 That is, I want to apply (+ x 3) to 5. 05:28:32 Instead of PROGN they should have named it PROCEDURE. :) 05:28:42 ((lambda (x) (funcall x 5)) (lambda (x) (+ x 3))) 05:28:44 -!- MetalDust is now known as MetalDust_Clouds 05:28:58 Is it possible to do this? 05:29:14 i just showed you how 05:29:21 scotty: (lambda (x) x 5) is a function that returns 5 -- see stassats' code. 05:29:24 Oh, whoops. I missed it. 05:29:41 I see. 05:30:23 You probably meant (lambda (x) (x 5)) which would conceptually make sense, but you need funcall here. 05:30:56 and that's how it would be in Sheme 05:30:59 Scheme 05:31:04 I read that all let expressions can be transformed into function applications as in the following example: (let ((x 5)) (+ x 3)) -> ((lambda (x) (+ x 3)) 5) 05:31:21 scotty: Sure. 05:31:50 I'm writing a lisp parser and I'm try to work out how I'll do this. 05:32:16 a parser? why a parse would need that? 05:32:30 Parsing just needs to understand atoms and lists. 05:32:57 an evaluator would might need that 05:33:03 s/would// 05:33:14 The most complicated part is parsing symbols and numbers in CL, which are ambiguous in their literal forms. 05:33:38 Well, my language isn't quite lisp yet. I'm trying to transform the input into my user-defined types. 05:33:43 The only reason LET can't be a macro is because of declarations, right? 05:33:51 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:34:08 giga: That shouldn't be an obstacle, given locally. 05:34:09 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-yutumuvnpfaycfgo] has joined #lisp 05:34:10 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 05:34:10 And I'd like to eliminate let expressions by transforming them into function applications. I'd like my grammar to not have lets in it. 05:34:47 giga: But lambda takes declarations like let, so ... 05:34:53 Zhivago: Hmmm. Is there some *other* reason, then? 05:35:04 gigamonkey: Can't think of one. 05:35:13 clhs call-arguments-limit 05:35:14 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_call_a.htm 05:35:45 let isn't limited by this 05:36:17 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-078-042-205-245.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 05:36:52 stassats: true. Though I don't know that you'd have to macro expand a LET into a single LAMBDA expression. I'm tired, but it seems like maybe you could chain together more than one if you needed more than call-arguments-limit bindings. 05:37:18 attila_lendvai [~ati@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 05:37:32 gigamonkey: that would be LET* 05:38:18 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 05:38:25 Maybe. Like I said, I'm tired. 05:39:18 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 05:39:59 -!- rrice [~rrice@76.211.6.129] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:40:50 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:41:21 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 05:43:52 Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 05:48:04 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 05:49:50 -!- prip [~foo@host87-128-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:49:53 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:50:05 gigamonkey pasted "What I meant about LET" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98123 05:50:10 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 05:50:14 stassats: ^ 05:51:31 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:52:13 ok, now, is it reasonable to implement them as lambdas in a real compiler? 05:52:15 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 05:52:51 if the compiler inlines the lambda, then probably 05:53:39 It is almost certainly the right thing to do :) 05:53:48 though I presume the compiler would have an "introduct scope with variables " as something that both let and lambda each compile down to 05:53:57 introduce... 05:54:37 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:56:16 -!- quodlibetor [~user@ool-45723726.dyn.optonline.net] has left #lisp 05:57:36 Reaver1 [~Joachim@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 05:58:45 The faster it unifies them, the less analysis code it need replicate. 05:59:23 yep 06:00:12 The more I think about it, the more I think that 'image centric implementations' are one of the biggest problems with lisp. 06:00:43 It makes the barrier to distribution so much higher. 06:01:09 what would be more desirable, a portable fasl format? 06:01:51 *Phoodus* is really fond of removing barriers to deployment 06:02:40 prip [~foo@host128-197-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 06:04:30 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:05:07 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.12.21] has joined #lisp 06:05:25 -!- ve [~a@smith.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:05:28 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:06:00 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 06:06:09 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.12.21] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:09:24 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 06:10:23 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:12:44 ve [~a@smith.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 06:14:29 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 06:14:56 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-2-149-199.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:15:05 errr, is there a way to find out the reporter of a condition object? 06:15:25 meaning, how can i force a condition to print itself according to its :report? 06:15:36 all I get is # 06:15:37 princ 06:15:52 oh, i was using print 06:18:26 -!- knobo` [~user@90.149.5.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:19:15 complete winage; replaced a 120 line php script with 20 lines of macro-fu 06:19:55 i am getting the hang of layered systems pushing params downward, and catching conditions upward 06:20:54 -!- kejsaren2 [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:20:56 -!- cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:21:22 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has joined #lisp 06:21:22 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 06:21:37 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:22:29 cmsimon [~chatzilla@pool-72-90-115-146.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:22:50 -!- cmsimon is now known as Guest48960 06:23:37 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:24:32 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 06:25:54 dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:27:55 Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 06:27:58 -!- scotty [~scott@66.112.249.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:28:23 phoodus: Oh, I'm not talking about fasls or whatever. I'm talking about the lisp idea that everything should be running in a shared image. 06:28:39 phoodus: Rather than broken up into separate pieces. 06:29:36 scotty [~scott@66.112.250.102] has joined #lisp 06:32:02 Zhivago: reminds of something naggum said, paraphrasing "Lisp is for nice, trusting people .. C++ for criminals" 06:32:08 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:32:16 It's not about trust. 06:32:30 It's about expectations of immediacy. 06:32:34 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:33:09 If your code always expects everything it deals with to be in the same place as itself, then it gets harder to not have that. 06:33:25 Centralization vs. distribution. 06:38:18 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:38:34 good morning 06:38:34 mvilleneuve, memo from beach: oh no! You are using flags (which are political symbols) to designate languages (which are purely linguistic by definition). Please don't! Or you will insult potential customers. 06:39:20 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-078-042-205-245.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:39:42 "Christian Gangsta Rap", oh the things one finds in PCL 06:40:47 i wonder what the sounds like: "slap ya like a bitch, and turn the other cheek" .. 06:42:19 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:43:00 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 06:43:01 s/cheek/chick/ 06:43:27 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:44:59 christian chick? http://www.chick.com/ 06:48:21 -!- Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Absquatulandus sum] 06:48:27 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 06:48:41 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:49:42 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 06:51:42 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 06:54:42 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:55:10 hello mvilleneuve 06:55:42 -!- varjagg is now known as varjag 06:56:02 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:56:44 spiaggia: I got your memo. Unfortunately I was not able to convince my colleagues to abandon the flags and replace them with language name abbreviations (EN, FR,...) 06:56:47 fusss: Probably something about cutting off your balls to get into heaven. 06:59:49 mvilleneuve: Ask them which flag they would like for an Irish person to click on. The one of the country that has invaded them on several occasions in the past? 07:00:39 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:00:52 http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aJXdCOdgJmw4 07:00:57 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 07:01:37 *fusss* finds another type in the hyperspec 07:02:19 "typo"? :) 07:02:29 hahaha 07:02:35 yes 07:02:51 finding a TYPE in the hyperspec is not as thrilling 07:03:06 Sergio`_ [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 07:03:19 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:05:50 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0090-205-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:07:27 vtl [~user@nat/redhat/x-gpxyehfgwunglhwj] has joined #lisp 07:08:59 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:08:59 -!- prip [~foo@host128-197-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:08:59 -!- Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:08:59 -!- fatblueduck [~duck@pool-71-104-235-97.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:08:59 -!- segmond [~seg@99.59.64.210] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:08:59 -!- djm [~djm@paludis/slacker/djm] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:08:59 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-61-181.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:09:00 -!- Phoodus [~foo@wsip-24-234-246-31.lv.lv.cox.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:09:00 -!- smithzv [~smithzv@c-24-9-11-34.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:09:00 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:09:00 -!- fda314925 [~fda314925@211.239.124.232] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:09:00 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:09:00 -!- foom [~jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:09:01 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [*.net *.split] 07:10:44 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 07:10:47 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:11:11 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757394.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:12:17 rread_ [~rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:12:17 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:13:22 fiveop [~fiveop@g229115072.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 07:13:49 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:13:49 prip [~foo@host128-197-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 07:13:49 fatblueduck [~duck@pool-71-104-235-97.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:13:49 segmond [~seg@99.59.64.210] has joined #lisp 07:13:49 djm [~djm@paludis/slacker/djm] has joined #lisp 07:13:49 xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-61-181.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:13:49 Phoodus [~foo@wsip-24-234-246-31.lv.lv.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:13:49 smithzv [~smithzv@c-24-9-11-34.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:13:49 phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 07:13:49 fda314925 [~fda314925@211.239.124.232] has joined #lisp 07:13:49 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 07:13:49 foom [~jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 07:13:49 mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has joined #lisp 07:13:57 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 07:15:02 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_find_c.htm -- what does "the class object named by the symbol" *mean*? 07:15:09 Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-198-1.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 07:15:16 I mean, the symbol isn't *bound*, which is what I'd expect that to mean. 07:15:30 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:15:38 How do I see what things are named in an environment in this sense? 07:15:52 -!- rread [~rread@nat/sun/x-atacpbemwmtmgtvw] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:15:52 -!- rread_ is now known as rread 07:16:04 dialtone [~dialtone@c-67-180-50-184.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:16:04 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@c-67-180-50-184.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 07:16:04 dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 07:16:11 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 07:16:31 Class names are in a different namespace, so they symbol isn't bound. 07:16:58 rlpowell: Nevertheless, in the correct namespace, the symbol is the name of the class. 07:17:22 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:17:27 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:18:04 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:18:07 So this is like thi difference between symbol-vaule and symbol-function? *again*? 07:18:37 (I am *not* a fan of split name spaces; if Scheme was more of a real-work language I wouldn't be using CL at all) 07:19:01 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 07:19:28 So a symbol can be associate with a a vaule or a function or a class; is there anything else? :) 07:19:34 *rlpowell* is working on a documentation browser thingy. 07:19:45 rlpowell: Package. 07:20:44 (or is the name of a package a string? I can't remember.) 07:21:07 rlpowell: Symbols also name slots. 07:21:20 rlpowell: And types. 07:21:33 And these are all different namespaces? 07:22:01 Yes. 07:22:17 Seems like find-class errors out when a symbol doesn't name a class; is there anything like symbol-function for that? Or a way to test if a symbol names a class? 07:22:26 (other than catching the error) 07:22:34 spiaggia: I very much appreciate the help. :) 07:22:58 Sure, no problem. 07:23:01 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:23:52 rlpowell: Pass an optional errorp parameter. 07:23:55 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 07:23:57 clhs find-class 07:23:57 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_find_c.htm 07:24:11 Aaah. THanks. 07:24:29 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.189] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:24:33 nipra [~nipra@115.118.180.14] has joined #lisp 07:27:31 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 07:29:35 -!- ysph [~user@adsl-221-200-236.mgm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:31:44 * (describe 'weblocks::email) 07:31:44 WEBLOCKS:EMAIL is an external symbol in #. 07:31:57 -- that mean it really *is* nothing, yeah? A symbol with no actual purpose/use? 07:33:08 That doesn't follow. 07:33:28 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:34:12 -!- fusss [~kumi@li63-187.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:35:06 Zhivago: Erm. "isn't bound to or naming anything"? 07:35:22 Like, if it named anything in any namespace, describe would find it, yeah? 07:36:13 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:36:30 Soulman [~kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 07:37:06 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 07:37:27 It's a point of consensus. 07:37:38 It can be used for meaningful communication between separate pieces of code. 07:37:54 Being bound or naming anything in an obvious sense isn't required for utility. 07:38:37 *nod* 07:39:17 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-168-152-229.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 07:39:30 idurand [~idurand@faucon.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 07:42:07 hello idurand 07:42:29 -!- Reaver1 [~Joachim@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has left #lisp 07:43:14 -!- segmond [~seg@99.59.64.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:43:23 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:44:25 -!- Guest48960 is now known as cmsimon 07:44:30 -!- cmsimon [~chatzilla@pool-72-90-115-146.ptldor.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 07:44:30 cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 07:46:37 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:47:10 -!- Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-14-230.iburst.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:48:02 rlpowell: I wouldn't count on DESCRIBE being thorough 07:48:39 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:49:04 tcr: OK. Is there some way to be more thorough? 07:49:34 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:51:21 look at DESCRIBE, and patch it possibly.... you could also try sb-introspect:find-definition-sources-by-name 07:51:42 mishoo [~mishoo@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:51:52 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:52:53 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:53:11 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 07:54:31 OK, so not really no. :) 07:55:09 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:55:29 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:55:59 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 07:57:06 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:58:23 -!- rlpowell [~rlpowell@chain.digitalkingdom.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:59:29 rlpowell [~rlpowell@chain.digitalkingdom.org] has joined #lisp 07:59:44 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-189-117.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:00:15 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:00:40 xan_ [~xan@183.139.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 08:01:27 DrDuck [~DrDuck@adsl-81-6-119.hsv.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 08:02:37 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:03:22 -!- smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 08:04:22 smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:07:18 -!- christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:07:32 christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 08:09:07 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:09:13 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:10:40 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 08:11:19 -!- plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-27-66.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:12:03 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:14:39 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-200-143.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:17:15 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:18:12 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:18:17 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@g229115072.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 08:19:31 afa [~afa@131.152.178.51] has joined #lisp 08:21:09 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:23:06 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:23:17 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:24:38 *pinterface* Ah, so /that's/ why I'm getting encoding problems. Now if I could just figure out why fixing it results in hanging. 08:25:15 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 08:28:04 -!- pinterface [~pinterfac@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has left #lisp 08:28:28 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:28:38 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:29:12 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 08:29:42 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 08:29:43 ASau` [~user@77.246.231.18] has joined #lisp 08:29:46 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 08:31:11 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-83-2.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 08:31:17 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:32:37 ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has joined #lisp 08:34:09 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:36:06 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:36:22 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:36:31 -!- cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 08:39:11 jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 08:39:17 cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 08:43:31 -!- potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f665365-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:45:56 fusss [~kumi@li63-187.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 08:46:03 Xach: herep 08:46:33 obviously not, it's 2AM :-/ 08:47:10 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:47:46 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 08:51:32 potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f665365-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 08:51:42 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:52:49 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757394.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:57:22 -!- smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:02:15 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 09:06:58 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:07:46 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 09:09:07 minion: memo for Xach: way to baffle the established in your newbie days, buddy. http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/browse_thread/thread/1696a6ee44096800 like it pretty much, and you went unanswered :-/ 09:09:08 Remembered. I'll tell Xach when he/she/it next speaks. 09:12:59 i love how there is just one result for "restart-case" in a cll search 09:13:14 and restart-bind has nil 09:15:10 i am still confused over the proper way to use restart-case and handler-(bind|case) in order for me to loop for a sequence and collect the FROB of each element 09:16:11 and ltu waxes poetic over "LISP" http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/1544 09:17:54 any reditters here? please submit this to /r/lisp; http://danweinreb.org/blog/what-conditions-exceptions-are-really-about 09:19:57 -!- tcr [~tcr@host178.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:20:08 Xof pasted "for fusss regarding restarts" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98128 09:20:25 tcr [~tcr@host178.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 09:21:14 gaelle35 [~gaelle@ARennes-257-1-26-232.w81-53.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:21:19 -!- nipra [~nipra@115.118.180.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:22:42 ThomasI [~thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 09:22:50 bonjour 09:24:12 Xof: thank you :-) 09:24:24 that goes straight to the pattern-stash, unedited 09:24:39 What is the magic environment variable incantation to tell SBCL about filename external formats? 09:25:07 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:25:31 lichtblau: i'm not sure there are any, but hopefully somebody who knows for sure chimes in 09:26:30 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 09:27:27 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 09:28:07 licoress_ [~user@cm-84.209.103.64.getinternet.no] has joined #lisp 09:28:38 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 09:29:31 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B838.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:29:50 lichtblau: LANG=xx_XX.UTF-8 09:31:16 notsonerdysunny [~chatzilla@121.243.182.185] has joined #lisp 09:33:25 gaelle35: Hello. 09:34:16 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:34:21 gaelle35: You seem to be new here. 09:35:27 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 09:36:37 killerboy [~mateusz@wireless.ics.p.lodz.pl] has joined #lisp 09:37:52 sbcl fully supports UTF-8 now? You could code in chinese? 09:38:30 JuanDaugherty: i use sbcl to process arabic texts 09:38:37 don't know about "fully", but you can code in chinese 09:38:52 arabic is alphabetic 09:39:25 what does that change? 09:39:38 when you say process arabic text, do you mean lisp code in arabic? 09:40:15 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!] 09:41:04 it doesn't if the arabic is in UTF-8 but arabic wouldn't actually require a multi-byte char set 09:41:28 JuanDaugherty: Common Lisp is still Common Lisp; symbols in :cl package will be in english anyway 09:41:45 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@wireless.ics.p.lodz.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:41:47 JuanDaugherty: but you can have your own symbols with whatever SYMBOL-NAME you want 09:42:02 killerboy [~mateusz@wireless.ics.p.lodz.pl] has joined #lisp 09:42:25 right so would have to be able to switch or all the other stuff would have to be converted to UTF-8 or the reading code would have to be able to switch based on what it detected 09:42:55 JuanDaugherty: try expressing yourself in shorter sentences 09:43:06 that's what I wanted to know where that overall situation was. 09:43:12 UTF-8 is only an external format 09:43:32 internally they have a different representation 09:43:50 stassats: hmm, doesn't work for my colleague who has the problem 09:44:18 "they"? 09:44:26 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:44:33 JuanDaugherty: lisp implementations 09:44:57 lichtblau: is it about OS X? 09:45:08 lichtblau: xx_XX.UTF-8 should be the name of a locale 09:45:52 like ru_RU.UTF-8 or de_DE.UTF-8 09:46:12 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 09:46:26 *JuanDaugherty* notes that he is a native speaker of English. 09:46:59 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@200.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:47:03 *stassats* is a native speaker of Common Lisp 09:47:31 -!- licoress_ [~user@cm-84.209.103.64.getinternet.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:47:49 so instead of mama and dada you said car and cdr? 09:48:03 something like that 09:48:04 yes, it's in locale.gen and locale-gen has been run 09:48:37 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-198-1.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:48:45 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-193-124.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 09:48:48 lichtblau: try also setting LC_CTYPE then 09:49:33 Profane [~marcoanto@189.62.203.101] has joined #lisp 09:50:37 thanks, colleague reports success with that 09:51:01 *lichtblau* hasn't ditched pathnames in favour of iolib... yet 09:51:38 good nite all 09:51:40 -!- fusss [~kumi@li63-187.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:55:02 http://common-lisp.net/project/iolib/manual/html_node/index.html doesn't look like has a pathnames equiv 09:55:13 *it 09:56:08 prolly out of date with current state thoug 09:56:09 h 09:57:22 -!- dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:57:46 -!- Sergio`_ [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:59:02 ah, yes it's in the current one 09:59:29 mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has joined #lisp 10:00:25 lnostdal [~lnostdal@200.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 10:00:35 hello 10:00:36 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@wireless.ics.p.lodz.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:02:02 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:02:46 I have list '(foo 'a 'b 'c) and function defined as (defun print-foo (list)...) Is there any simply way to eval (print-foo...) function on '(foo...) list? 10:02:46 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 10:03:17 mrSpec: (funcall #'print-foo '(foo a b c)) 10:04:06 -!- ThomasI [~thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:04:06 -!- christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:04:06 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:04:07 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:04:07 -!- yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:04:07 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.233] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:04:07 -!- tompa [~tompa@h59ec27fb.sehjjak.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:04:07 -!- rapacity [~prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:04:07 -!- clog [nef@bespin.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:04:07 -!- easyE [aaGTdZretn@panix3.panix.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:04:07 -!- lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:04:07 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:04:07 -!- goosemo [~goosemo@d60-65-112-181.col.wideopenwest.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:04:07 -!- z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:04:08 -!- phryk [~phryk@yggdrasil.phryk.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:04:08 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:04:08 -!- koning_r1bot [~aap@88.159.110.31] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:04:08 -!- kajic [~kajic@Psilocybe.Update.UU.SE] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:04:08 -!- rotty [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:04:08 -!- franki^ [~franki@unaffiliated/franki] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:04:08 -!- drhodes [~none@209-20-72-61.slicehost.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:04:08 -!- johs [~johs@hawk.netfonds.no] has quit [*.net *.split] 10:04:59 which is (print-foo '(foo a b c)) 10:05:01 Hmm not exacly, I'll try to describe it better. 10:05:17 you want APPLY? 10:05:32 apply, I dont think so 10:05:42 but wait :D 10:05:44 clhs apply 10:05:45 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_apply.htm 10:06:03 knobo [~user@ti100710a080-0223.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 10:06:11 ThomasI [~thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 10:06:11 christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 10:06:11 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 10:06:11 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 10:06:11 yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:06:11 drhodes [~none@209-20-72-61.slicehost.net] has joined #lisp 10:06:11 Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.233] has joined #lisp 10:06:11 rapacity [~prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has joined #lisp 10:06:11 clog [nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 10:06:11 easyE [aaGTdZretn@panix3.panix.com] has joined #lisp 10:06:11 lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #lisp 10:06:11 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 10:06:11 goosemo [~goosemo@d60-65-112-181.col.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 10:06:11 phryk [~phryk@yggdrasil.phryk.net] has joined #lisp 10:06:11 z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #lisp 10:06:11 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 10:06:11 koning_r1bot [~aap@88.159.110.31] has joined #lisp 10:06:11 kajic [~kajic@Psilocybe.Update.UU.SE] has joined #lisp 10:06:11 rotty [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has joined #lisp 10:06:11 franki^ [~franki@unaffiliated/franki] has joined #lisp 10:06:11 johs [~johs@hawk.netfonds.no] has joined #lisp 10:06:15 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 10:06:28 -!- goosemo [~goosemo@d60-65-112-181.col.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 10:06:28 -!- rotty [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 10:06:42 hmm but can I do something like (appy (concatenate 'string "print-" (first list)) (cdr list)) ? 10:06:49 s/appy/apply 10:07:12 rotty [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has joined #lisp 10:07:18 you can, but that's ugly 10:07:30 HI, does anyone know how to find the default value for the run time option --dynamic-space-size (in SBCL) is ? 10:07:57 goosemo [~goosemo@d60-65-112-181.col.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 10:08:08 I'd never be able to start my own computer company, because the company would need to have a name, and I would not be able to pick a name :( 10:08:11 stassats: so maybe you have any better idea how to do it? :) 10:08:21 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 10:08:30 mrSpec: if only i knew what you're doing 10:08:32 Why would I mention it here. Because I'd be doing lisp.... 10:08:51 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:08:56 Stelian Ionescu, if you are somebody on here, the link for the file to patch texinfo docstrings is broken 10:09:00 knobo: you could hire someone 10:09:06 stassats: ok, I'll prepare and paste some code. 10:09:40 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 10:09:47 mrSpec: add some STRING-UPCASE, INTERN or FIND-SYMBOL, and i think you should be able to do what you want 10:09:50 stassats: That's a good ide. Then I could just blame them if it is a stupid name :) 10:12:12 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 10:12:39 knobo: names aren't very important. 'Microsoft' is a stupid name, for instance 10:12:58 as is Apple 10:13:12 how'bout google, bing, yahoo... all stupid names. 10:13:13 or Google 10:13:22 Bing isn't a company 10:13:28 you see, stupid name is what you actually want 10:13:32 rsynnott: stupid name anyway. 10:13:58 JuanDaugherty: That would be fe[nl]ix 10:14:25 Anyway, you can always change it afterwards (though depending on juristiction you may then have to say "[stupid name], trading as [slightly less stupid name]" in the small print 10:15:29 spiaggia, ah, thx 10:16:51 -!- xan_ [~xan@183.139.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:16:57 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:17:11 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 10:17:35 -!- gaelle35 [~gaelle@ARennes-257-1-26-232.w81-53.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:18:34 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has joined #lisp 10:18:57 gaelle35 [~gaelle@ARennes-257-1-26-232.w81-53.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:19:33 -!- lharc [~shrek@88.131.67.194] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:19:48 -!- NNshag [user@lns-bzn-27-82-248-3-36.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:20:25 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 10:20:35 lharc [~shrek@88.131.67.194] has joined #lisp 10:23:22 Krystof [~csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:25:38 -!- saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: saikat] 10:26:32 -!- CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:26:36 udzinari` [~user@nat/ibm/x-uatghivksonrhrar] has joined #lisp 10:30:14 -!- pr [~pr@unaffiliated/pr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:30:20 pr [~pr@109.74.204.63] has joined #lisp 10:30:20 -!- pr [~pr@109.74.204.63] has quit [Changing host] 10:30:20 pr [~pr@unaffiliated/pr] has joined #lisp 10:30:58 Finally! After been deep down in the shit, converting a CL webapp to PHP, and hacking Matlab until the morning hours, I can now relax and use CL again to generate asm in my HPC course. :D 10:31:48 NNshag [user@lns-bzn-44-82-249-221-116.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 10:32:11 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:32:23 levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 10:32:26 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 10:32:33 hlavaty [~user@77-22-100-58-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 10:33:22 Spec pasted "parsed C code" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98130 10:33:33 This is list generated by my C parser(using CL-YACC). Now I'd like to generate C code from this tree. I was thinking to make functions like: 10:33:33 (print-function-definition...) (print-declarator ...) And call them while walking this tree. 10:34:54 ATM I dont have any other idea how to do this :/ 10:36:14 -!- udzinari` [~user@nat/ibm/x-uatghivksonrhrar] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:38:16 -!- maus [~maus@222.253.78.4] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:40:23 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 10:43:14 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:43:42 -!- Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Planned down time ^^] 10:43:51 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 10:46:53 claint [~user@81.214.124.250] has joined #lisp 10:48:11 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:48:26 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 10:51:39 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:51:59 so, what was that trick to loop over _sequences_ in loop? 10:52:05 or was that sbcl specific 10:52:06 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.18.242] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:52:09 hello 10:52:14 sbcl specific 10:52:18 hello gaelle35 10:52:35 argh. and iter fcks up the environment 10:52:55 gaelle35: I asked you before if you are new here. 10:53:09 i'm new 10:53:20 gaelle35: What brings you to #lisp? 10:53:43 i'm a student and i m learning Lisp 10:54:19 In Rennes? 10:54:22 yes 10:54:28 :-) 10:54:43 I didn't know they used Lisp in their courses there. 10:54:58 What level are you studying at? 10:55:22 the first year of the Licence (we are learning python, lisp, C and squeak) 10:55:33 Interesting! 10:56:48 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:57:27 and you? you're a student ? 10:57:43 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 10:58:07 gaelle35: No, I am a professor. I teach Lisp here in Bordeaux. 10:58:13 dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:58:15 good ! 10:58:51 you teach Lisp in french universities? what the heck? 10:59:03 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.18.242] has joined #lisp 10:59:09 -!- claint [~user@81.214.124.250] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:59:32 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:59:36 etate: There is nothing wrong with that. 11:00:19 it's interesting but it's a bit hard... 11:00:22 spiaggia: there's nothing wrong with it, its just surprising, in England I haven't seen any Lisp courses 11:00:37 etate: Oh, but we have very different education systems. 11:00:57 etate: I think at least one university in Ireland still uses scheme as a teaching language 11:01:08 actually, I thought some in the UK did, too 11:01:37 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:01:58 it's a general chat or we can explain a problem if we have one ? 11:02:04 etate: As I understand, in England, things are more likely to be driven by what industry wants. 11:02:16 gaelle35: Go right ahead. 11:02:25 spiaggia: yeah that was the case for me, back when I was studying in university 11:02:48 gaelle35: We just fill up the space when there is particular technical discussion going on. 11:02:50 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has quit [Quit: -arividerchi] 11:03:00 gaelle35: actually it's not a general chat at all 11:03:01 probably, yep; there's been a nasty trend towards introducing things that someone imagines might be of practical application 11:03:09 spiaggia: the course mainly used C#, and C++, with a hint of Prolog 11:03:20 (while scrapping things like compiler design and so forth) 11:03:40 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 11:04:19 yeah they skipped compiler design in my university course - was very disappointed 11:05:05 i've got a problem about a function, and i'm blocked 11:05:14 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.18.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:05:17 gaelle35: whats the problem? 11:06:28 etate: I concur. I once told a friend from computer lab at Cambridge that I did a project in lisp. He was surprised: Why Lisp?? 11:06:35 i've got to define a function that bring the atom from a position : for example , (fonction 2 '(a b c)) brings c or (nième 4 '(a b c d)) brings nil 11:06:52 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 11:07:35 clhs nth 11:07:35 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_nth.htm 11:07:41 gaelle35: That function exists. 11:08:54 gaelle35: see nth or elt I guess 11:09:04 but i have to defun a function, and not use nth 11:09:12 (defun nième (position liste) 11:09:12 (cond 11:09:12 ((not liste) liste) 11:09:15 gaelle35: But I take it you need to write it anyway, and you need to use recursion, right? 11:09:20 yeah 11:09:23 minion: tell gaelle35 about lisppaste. 11:09:23 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 11:09:58 gaelle35: Do you know about proofs by induction? 11:10:12 gaelle35: It's a good idea to structure such code the same way as such a proof. 11:10:26 i think i ve got a problem about the algo 11:10:33 gaelle35: Figure out the special cases first, and then apply the induction hypothesis. 11:10:39 i ve got error : + - : a i not a number 11:10:55 OK, use lisppaste to paste your code. 11:11:53 Gaëlle35 pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98131 11:12:12 blandest [~blandest@89.122.117.70] has joined #lisp 11:12:26 the code is false, it doesn t work 11:12:56 CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 11:13:11 in my view, we have to count until the position (it's a number) and print the atom 11:13:11 whoops 11:13:28 gaelle35: You ally nième to the car of the list. Are you sure you want to do that? 11:13:46 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:14:17 no 11:14:43 but the first element has the position 0, the first element is (car liste) ? 11:14:46 gaelle35: Also, don't print things in such code. Just return the value. 11:15:11 gaelle35: So, do you know how to make a proof by induction? 11:15:49 ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 11:15:51 i've just learned condition (and, eq, equal etc) 11:15:54 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 11:16:31 i've difficulties about writing the algo 11:16:44 gaelle35: In mathematics, do you know what "preuve par récurrence" is? 11:16:51 yes 11:17:03 gaelle35: In English, that's proof by induction. 11:17:09 ok thanks :-) 11:17:18 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:17:19 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:17:22 gaelle35: If you are trying to get to the nth element of the list, what is the base case? 11:17:30 (forget about empty lists for now) 11:17:36 fiveop [~fiveop@dfn189.rz.tu-ilmenau.de] has joined #lisp 11:18:03 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 11:18:38 spiaggia: what's your opinion why lisp hasn't become more popular? 11:18:42 lol 11:19:17 leo2007: That question was asked as if you were convinced that there is a particular reason. 11:19:29 gaelle35: Did you figure out a base case? 11:19:52 we dont use "proof induction" yet 11:20:12 gaelle35: I am trying to teach you how to program using recursion. 11:20:22 ok 11:20:34 spiaggia: I just want to understand what stops lisp from that. I don't know whether there's a particular reason. 11:20:42 gaelle35: Can you think of a value for position that makes the problem particularly easy? 11:21:55 leo2007: You might find some clues here: http://dept-info.labri.fr/~strandh/Essays/psychology.html 11:22:11 Joreji [~thomas@71-255.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:22:16 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0090-205-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 11:23:42 gaelle35: No ideas? 11:23:56 -!- DrDuck [~DrDuck@adsl-81-6-119.hsv.bellsouth.net] has left #lisp 11:25:13 *spiaggia* fetches some coffee. 11:25:26 0, i dont know, why give a value whereas position is a parameter of the function 11:25:29 ? 11:25:53 i'm coming back in 10 minutes. sorry 11:26:46 spiaggia: does it imply you more-or-less agree with the article by Richard Gabriel? 11:27:53 leo2007: which article is that? 11:28:15 "Good news bad news, how to win big?" 11:28:58 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:29:16 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 11:29:20 gaelle35: Because you can test for that. So if position is 0, then what do you do? 11:29:52 leo2007: I forget what the essence of that one is. Can yo summarize? 11:32:25 He compared the "always do the right thing" philosophy in the lisp community and the "worse is better" in the C 11:33:38 -!- MetalDust_Clouds [~metaldust@75-32-203-61.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 11:34:01 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 11:34:20 http://filebin.ca/yxvgeq/cons-alpha5.ogv <---- lisp game video/audio :) 11:34:20 leo2007: Hmm, OK. But I don't remember what his conclusions were. Either way, my job is not to win big, but I see it as being to come up with better tools and methods to improve productivity in industry and society in general. 11:34:41 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Client Quit] 11:37:21 i m back, sorry 11:37:27 certainly hasn't improved it's position in 20 years 11:38:14 *its 11:38:22 JuanDaugherty: lisp? 11:38:27 gaelle35: So I said, you can test if position is zero and then solve the simple problem. What would you return in that case? 11:38:51 yes, vis a vis the rest of computing, not intrinsic improvements 11:39:21 (in the 20 years since "... win big") 11:40:10 So if position is 0, then what do you do? i want to count until the position 11:40:19 JuanDaugherty: maybe it just didn't lose as big as it would have 11:40:23 there's no way to know 11:40:40 gaelle35: Why do you want to count if you know the position is 0 11:40:40 the element 0 is the first of the list, i add the number given by position 11:40:42 JuanDaugherty: that's sad indeed. Big guys are leaving the community. 11:40:45 well and there's a lot more other stuff in the last 20 years 11:40:48 sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has joined #lisp 11:41:07 gaelle35: I thought the problem was to return the nth element. 11:41:08 yes, that too. 11:41:26 gaelle35: Why do you need to add if position is 0? 11:41:31 i understand, if position is 0 : return the first element of the list 11:41:38 lisp certainly has lost if you don't count clojure (: 11:41:44 gaelle35: You got it. Congratulations! 11:41:48 but look at GNU and LINUX we can see how important leadership is. if Linus left his project earlier, LINUX will fail. 11:41:59 i want to generalize a bit top fast... 11:42:03 too 11:42:46 gaelle35: Now for the more general problem, if position is > 0. We now apply our induction hypothesis saying we know how to solve the problem for position = 0, 1, ..., n, but someone gave us position = n + 1. What can we do? 11:43:48 return (car liste) + 1 11:43:55 gaelle35: No 11:43:57 the first element + 1 11:44:02 no 11:44:03 ok 11:44:19 The first element is element 0, but you want element n + 1. 11:45:06 gaelle35: So element n + 1, must exist somewhere in (cdr list). 11:45:16 position(0) + 1 ? 11:46:27 gaelle35: if the element you are looking for is at position n+1 in the list, can you say anything about its position in (cdr list)? 11:46:52 -!- coyo [~unf@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 11:46:55 -!- dym [~dym@217.20.175.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:47:18 coyo|pingout [~unf@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 11:47:45 Guthur [~Michael@host213-122-221-177.range213-122.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:47:54 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 11:51:11 it will be the first element in (cdr liste) 11:51:53 gaelle35: So you are saying if say n+1 = 35 so that you are looking for element 35 in the list, it will be element 0 in (cdr list)? 11:52:20 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:52:59 no, it will be the element 1 11:53:23 really? And that would be the case if n+1 = 234 as well? 11:54:13 no 11:54:16 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 11:54:20 so no matter what your position is (other than 0), you are always looking for element 1 in (cdr list)? 11:54:23 dym [~dym@217.20.175.226] has joined #lisp 11:55:20 gaelle35: Do you know what (cdr list) means? 11:55:28 yes it's the rest of the list 11:55:51 (car liste) is the first element and the cdr is the rest 11:55:55 OK, so if you are looking for element 35 in list, what element are you looking for in (cdr list) 11:56:02 plage [~user@serveur5.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 11:58:26 element 35 because (car liste) is at position 0 11:58:42 // 11:59:03 -!- dym [~dym@217.20.175.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:59:15 gaelle35: I'll take over from spiaggia. 11:59:30 dym [~dym@217.20.175.226] has joined #lisp 11:59:37 gaelle35: No, you were looking for elment 35 in list. What element are you looking for in (cdr list)? 12:00:12 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:00:25 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 12:00:30 gaelle, suppose you have a seqence abcdefghijkl and you are looking for element 10 in that sequence. 12:01:08 gaelle35: Which letter are you looking for then? 12:01:09 ok 12:01:19 k 12:01:26 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-189-117.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:01:49 cmatei [cmatei@95.76.148.87] has joined #lisp 12:01:54 gaelle35: OK, suppose you instead are given the sequence bcdefghijkl (the cdr of the list). Which position does k have now? 12:03:20 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:03:28 10 ? 12:03:36 oh? 12:03:47 b is 0 now, right? 12:03:56 (a b c ) = a (position 0), b (position1) ... 12:03:57 ok 12:03:59 i understand 12:04:23 so what position does k have in bcdefghijkl? 12:04:55 9 12:04:58 And how did you get from 10 to 9? 12:05:39 HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:06:23 with a sub 12:06:46 So, if you are looking for element p in list, what element should you be looking for in (cdr list)? 12:08:04 -!- deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:08:08 deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 12:10:16 mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has joined #lisp 12:10:57 (in the example, p = 10) 12:11:12 p - 1 12:11:33 Excellent! Now, do you have a function handy that kind find element p-1 in a list? 12:11:47 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:12:10 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 12:12:47 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 12:13:14 s/kind/can/ 12:13:24 (trying to listen to a seminar at the same time) 12:13:40 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 12:14:23 nth ? 12:14:33 but you don't have the right to use that. 12:14:40 no 12:14:50 What is wrong with nième? 12:15:12 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.] 12:15:48 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:16:17 -!- dym [~dym@217.20.175.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:16:37 leo2007 pasted "loading lib" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98134 12:16:48 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:17:05 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 12:17:15 -!- Profane [~marcoanto@189.62.203.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:17:40 in the paste above, any easy way to replace the path with the output of `gsl-config --cflags` in shell? 12:18:07 i need a return in this function ? there is no return or print in the examples of lisp classe 12:18:18 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 12:18:43 gaelle35: No, you don't need any explicit return, because the last value is always returned. 12:19:04 leo2007: it depends on the implementation. you might get some mileage out of asdf:run-shell-command for portability. 12:19:04 Xach, memo from fusss: way to baffle the established in your newbie days, buddy. http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/browse_thread/thread/1696a6ee44096800 like it pretty much, and you went unanswered :-/ 12:19:18 gaelle35: So did you understand how you can use your own function to solve the problem for p-1 and (cdr list)? 12:19:59 yes i understand 12:20:56 Gaëlle35 pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98135 12:21:05 it was the example for this function 12:21:21 given by the teacher 12:21:29 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 12:22:31 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 12:22:32 gaelle35: That function doesn't find the nth element of a list, but the position of a particular atom in a list. 12:22:44 i know, we have to start with that 12:22:49 gaelle35: That's like the Lisp function position, and not like nth. 12:23:52 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 12:24:13 gaelle35: Actually, I'm wrong. It counts the occurences of a particular objedct in a list. 12:24:27 gaelle35: it's like the Lisp function count. 12:24:58 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 12:25:29 thanks 12:26:04 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 12:26:10 gaelle35: Do you want help to solve that problem as well? 12:26:51 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:27:06 i m trying a new code 12:27:26 Xach: that seems to be what I wanted. but (asdf:run-shell-command "gsl-config --libs") returns 0 12:27:58 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:28:10 Xach: ok, output is stored in *verbose-out* 12:28:23 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:28:27 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 12:28:40 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 12:29:10 leo2007: right. perhaps that can be wrapped with a string stream. 12:29:32 but *verbose-out* is always nil 12:29:34 hmmm 12:29:41 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 12:29:45 plage: please do it via private messages. 12:30:00 Xach: Sure. Sorry for the noise. 12:30:26 Xach: I think that's all I can handle in one day anyway. 12:32:02 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 12:32:39 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 12:33:19 dym [~dym@217.20.175.226] has joined #lisp 12:35:18 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:36:32 davertron [~Dave@vt-sb-1.logicsupply.com] has joined #lisp 12:36:48 good... morning? afternoon? 12:37:36 hello p_l 12:37:43 *p_l* is still in Poland 12:38:02 wonderful Volcano :/ 12:38:11 sorry, it's my fault 12:38:51 I think the airplane people are just being paranoid 12:38:59 it's not spewing much ash anymore 12:39:07 sellout [~greg@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:39:17 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 12:39:40 haha, being paranoid is good if you're flying planes 12:40:07 ah, yes, it might 12:40:14 but I'm a little bit worried 12:40:52 some geologists here are saying.. "Oh, yes, we're entering a new era of volcanic eruptions, it's very exciting. It will last around ~60 years and climax in ~30 years." 12:41:12 kleppari: Last time we let a plane fly into ash cloud, we nearly had >300 people dead. 12:41:26 ok, not >300, 267 12:41:31 *263 12:42:04 that was in indonesia, with Boeing 747-200 12:42:11 yeah, I've heard that story 12:42:27 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:42:47 same thing happened here to two planes in 1973 12:43:02 it's posible to land a boeing with no working engines :) 12:43:10 they had a 4-engined airliner flame out during the ash storm 12:43:23 jdz: hopefully because of some sort of lisp success story 12:43:24 and have to restart engines 12:43:25 Adamant: that was the one I mentioned 12:43:38 p_l: no, I mean this go-around 12:43:48 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:43:49 Xach: ye, i just was thinking about what kind of lisp hackery would make that a big success 12:44:07 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 12:44:27 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 12:45:13 hmm, what was the Airbus control software written in, I wonder? :) 12:45:16 kleppari: btw, it's not like everything was actually closed, it's just that safety rules are quite strict 12:45:28 I know 12:45:29 rsynnott: possibly Ada 12:45:41 i've got a flight to amsterdam in 8 days, i'm just trying to be optimistic :P 12:45:48 kleppari: from where? 12:45:52 iceland 12:45:53 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:45:55 ouch 12:46:01 (The A320 had, for its time, very sophisticated computer control. In one demonstration at an airshow, the computer decided the pilot was flying so low it must be landing, so did) 12:46:14 rsynnott: it wasn't exactly like that. 12:46:38 rrice [~rrice@76.211.6.129] has joined #lisp 12:47:10 rsynnott: they didn't disengage autopilot completely, and their flight pattern looked too much like a glideslope. Autopilot, since it was still engaged, and pilot didn't override it, switched into autoland. 12:47:31 -!- blandest [~blandest@89.122.117.70] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:47:41 they had (and I think still have) another issue with landing gear touchdown recognition which impacts braking system. 12:47:44 mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has joined #lisp 12:47:59 blandest` [~blandest@89.122.117.70] has joined #lisp 12:48:50 (it was a cause of another crash, in Poland) 12:49:36 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:49:52 is there a standard function to split a string by \n 12:50:17 leo2007: No, but you can use split-sequence. 12:50:45 minion: Please tell leo2007 about split-sequence. 12:50:46 leo2007: please look at split-sequence: SPLIT-SEQUENCE (formerly known as PARTITION) is a member of the Common Lisp Utilities family of programs, designed by community consensus. http://www.cliki.net/split-sequence 12:53:29 btw, my rebooking of flight yesterday gave me some software (and Lisp) related arguments as well :) 12:54:24 I've got to look at how AirFrance/KLM interfaces with their reservation system - And it was a glorious argument for when people complain about lack of GUI libs :) 12:55:04 apparently, 3270 is all you need :) 12:55:34 heh, it's amazing how much stuff actually relies on that today 12:56:12 also, few years ago they did a giant upgrade on that system. 12:56:16 It still runs on TPF :P 12:56:55 except they switched from TPF 4.1 to z/TPF Ent. 1.1 + Linux/s390 12:57:15 heh 12:57:32 the interface could be done with functions that are included in ANSI :) 12:58:30 It also showed how such an interface is better than some graphical ones... 12:58:35 as an "argument for when people complain about lack of GUI libs" that's pretty crap 12:58:55 p_l: how so? 12:59:01 p_l: no mouse to delay you? 12:59:04 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:59:05 Profane [~marcoanto@200.202.122.5] has joined #lisp 12:59:07 jsnell: Some people complain because they can't imagine a non-graphical interface. 12:59:20 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 12:59:40 kleppari: yep. No trying to hit the small button to get the combobox to open... something I had seen in practice 12:59:50 yeah, I know 12:59:54 yes, and giving them an example of a non-gui system that's so hard to use that people need 6 months of training (seriously) is convincing? 13:00:07 the mouse is horrible 13:01:32 jsnell: I haven't heard about training part, but I had to say that it impressed me how fast it worked... 13:01:50 though I agree that it was unnecesarily cryptic in places 13:02:25 leo2007 pasted "shell output" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98136 13:02:51 plage: I am trying to get the output from a shell command as in 98136 13:03:24 I want to avoid using split-sequence if possible. 13:03:51 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:04:39 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 13:05:07 -!- dym [~dym@217.20.175.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:05:10 leo2007: with-input-from-string and read-line? 13:05:25 tompa [~tompa@h59ec27fb.sehjjak.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #lisp 13:05:58 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:07:31 Xach: that worked. 13:07:34 thanks. 13:07:37 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 13:10:24 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:10:27 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:13:47 HG` [~HG@xdsled005.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 13:14:00 dym [~dym@217.20.175.226] has joined #lisp 13:14:25 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:14:30 -!- Profane [~marcoanto@200.202.122.5] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:14:40 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 13:16:18 mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:16:32 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 13:18:42 -!- benny [~benny@i577A12A6.versanet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:19:39 -!- blandest` [~blandest@89.122.117.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:21:50 benny [~benny@i577A12A6.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 13:23:35 TR2N [email@89.180.184.178] has joined #lisp 13:23:50 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dfn189.rz.tu-ilmenau.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 13:24:17 longkid [~longkid@113.22.174.201] has joined #lisp 13:24:21 a shell output "/usr/local/unix/gsl-1.14" now I want to use this in merge-pathnames but without having the base name 'gsl-1.14' stripped, how? 13:24:39 for example, when I eval (merge-pathnames "lib/libgslcblas.dylib" (pathname-directory (gsl-config "--prefix"))) 13:25:04 leo2007: if that output's a directory, append a / 13:26:01 ok, is it portable to use '/' in path names? 13:26:35 If you want to use logical pathnames, you should probably stick to them 13:27:30 leo2007: de facto portable 13:27:59 -!- etate [~meta@mon69-4-82-228-201-242.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:27:59 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 13:28:42 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 13:30:31 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:30:47 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 13:35:25 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:35:45 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 13:37:31 leo2007 pasted "un eval'ed" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98138 13:37:38 davazp [~user@ucaip182.uca.es] has joined #lisp 13:37:58 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [] 13:38:05 how to make the (merge-pathnames ... ) in 98138 be evaled? 13:38:05 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 13:38:19 -!- longkid [~longkid@113.22.174.201] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:38:32 #. 13:40:48 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-214-244.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:43:39 G'morning all. 13:43:51 blandest [~blandest@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 13:43:57 felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has joined #lisp 13:44:07 Morning nyef. 13:44:26 Wait...Good afternoon 13:44:29 -!- Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:44:38 Still morning here, for some hours. 13:45:02 Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has joined #lisp 13:45:05 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:45:11 Earth's spheracle miracle. 13:45:13 stassats: thanks. How to make gsl-config (defined by me) accessible when #.? 13:45:19 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757394.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:45:24 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:45:43 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 13:45:44 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 13:45:52 eval-when 13:47:41 stassats: thanks all resolved. 13:47:48 Hunh, gencgc is the default on ppc? 13:48:29 ppc eieio 13:48:29 Enforce In-Order Execution of I/O: http://www.nersc.gov/vendor_docs/ibm/asm/eieio.htm#idx390 13:48:33 nyef: hello 13:48:56 Oh dear. Looks like the PPC reference is 404. 13:49:01 p_l: Hello. 13:49:34 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:49:39 lol I seen eieio, and connected it to the 7 dwarfs 13:49:58 *p_l* actually connected it to donkeys and Emacs... 13:50:36 You have been inactive for over an hour. I was bored, so I decided to take a nap. Let me know when you get back. <--- a message from web application :) 13:50:41 fiveop [~fiveop@g229115072.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:51:05 Guthur: I thought that was "high-ho"? 13:51:14 -!- tcr [~tcr@host178.natpool.mwn.de] has left #lisp 13:51:22 (EIEIO was old macdonald.) 13:51:23 nyef: Ya actually it is 13:51:23 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 13:51:45 My childhood memories are fading 13:51:56 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 13:52:02 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-75-36-214-244.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 13:52:40 Okay, plan B: I wait for a bit, then grab the hardcopy PPC reference when I can get access to it. 13:55:12 -!- puddingpimp [~dave@118-93-74-47.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:56:12 mbd [~user@202.80.41.159] has joined #lisp 13:56:15 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:56:33 -!- TR2N [email@89.180.184.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:57:07 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 13:57:51 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:58:09 Just downloaded latest slime from CVS . I am compiling via asdf on a 13:58:10 latest copy of sbcl and I am getting this error : - Compile-time error: 13:58:10 Variable name is not a symbol: 'SWANK:*GLOBALLY-REDIRECT-IO*. 13:58:12 .. Any help appreciated 13:58:53 what's in your ~/.swank.lisp? 13:59:12 I have nothing there 13:59:45 should i put some stuff @ ~/.swank.lisp 13:59:53 no 14:00:26 don't compile via asdf? 14:00:37 mbd: somewhere you have (setf 'swank:*...* ...) when it should be (setf swank:*...* ...) (no quote) 14:00:59 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:01:01 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 14:01:15 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 14:03:06 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 14:03:21 bigwavejake [~user@user-0c8hqku.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 14:03:58 Xach: You mean in one of the many swank-loader files :) . I didn't touch any file, I've just downloaded from via cvs 14:05:07 just vanilla cvs slime? and you have no debian packages, gento packages, or whatever 14:05:30 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:05:50 Yes. Remove all the other ones before. 14:06:01 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 14:06:10 removed, but not purged? 14:06:41 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:06:49 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-200-143.wbs.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:07:12 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 14:07:35 stassats: apt-get autoremove slime .. yep i guess so. 14:07:51 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:08:08 autoremove? 14:08:23 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 14:08:29 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:08:54 well, whatever you did, the right command is apt-get --purge remove slime cl-swank 14:09:02 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:09:13 or if you already removed without purge: dpkg --purge slime cl-swank 14:09:33 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 14:10:13 stassats: ok, executing now. 14:10:13 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:10:44 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 14:11:24 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:11:55 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 14:12:10 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:12:26 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:12:35 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:13:01 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 14:13:33 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 14:13:46 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:14:17 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 14:14:56 tcr [~tcr@host178.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 14:14:57 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:15:26 smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:15:28 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 14:16:08 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:16:39 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 14:17:19 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:17:34 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:17:42 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:17:51 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 14:17:51 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 14:18:05 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 14:18:29 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:19:00 palter [~palter@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:19:34 stassats: thanks for the #. and eval-when, I didn't read them carefully in pcl but I understand them better now. 14:20:13 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-pducgmkdtjsgkwps] has left #lisp 14:20:14 *leo2007* is pleased he took time to make gsll find libgsl automatically 14:20:36 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:20:46 -!- palter [palter@clozure-CDE684CB.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 14:20:46 -!- palter [~palter@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:21:05 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 14:22:02 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:22:04 Reaver1 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 14:22:22 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.54] has joined #lisp 14:22:33 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 14:22:38 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:22:47 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:23:12 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:23:13 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:23:25 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:23:52 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: shopping] 14:24:11 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 14:24:24 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:24:48 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 14:24:55 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 14:25:35 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:25:37 -!- reprore_ [~reprore@p4b216c.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:26:06 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 14:26:12 reprore [~reprore@p4b216c.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:26:13 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-078-042-205-245.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 14:26:45 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:26:53 -!- reprore [~reprore@p4b216c.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:27:02 -!- notsonerdysunny [~chatzilla@121.243.182.185] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:27:11 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:27:17 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 14:27:33 stassats: done purging and reinstalling the sbcl latest binary. Start SBCL, asdf load swank same error message. 14:27:35 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 14:27:37 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-yutumuvnpfaycfgo] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:27:56 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:28:24 -!- davazp [~user@ucaip182.uca.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:28:27 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 14:29:07 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:29:12 dnolen_ [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 14:29:28 does asdf load swank from where you think it's loading it? 14:29:38 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 14:29:39 why do you want to load it by asdf, anyway? 14:30:18 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:30:49 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 14:31:21 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:31:23 -!- dnolen_ is now known as dnolen 14:31:29 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:32:00 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 14:32:40 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:32:46 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:33:04 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 14:33:11 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 14:33:39 Hrm. dynamic-extent.impure.lisp is hanging on my PPC. 14:33:51 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:33:53 milanj [~milanj_@77.46.202.39] has joined #lisp 14:34:11 stassats: how else should i do it ? 14:34:27 to compile all the related files at once ? 14:34:31 through swank-loader 14:34:35 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 14:34:38 -!- rread [~rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:34:44 rread [~rread@nat/sun/x-melacbmnczzzeoqg] has joined #lisp 14:34:58 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-88-162.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:35:02 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:35:28 (load "/root/.sbcl/site/slime/swank-loader.lisp") 14:35:29 Running :HANDLER-CASE-BOGUS-COMPILER-NOTE, it enters the debugger, showing the debugger prompt, and then stops and only responds to C-c as input. 14:35:33 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 14:35:54 >/root/ uh-oh 14:36:12 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:36:15 yes y ? 14:36:44 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 14:37:23 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:37:54 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 14:38:17 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 14:38:34 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:39:05 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 14:39:45 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:40:16 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 14:40:33 -!- idurand [~idurand@faucon.labri.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:40:34 TR2N [email@89.180.184.178] has joined #lisp 14:40:58 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:41:27 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 14:41:31 Why do you want to use Slime as root? 14:42:07 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:42:11 Because wide-open security holes are fun, of course! 14:42:38 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 14:43:18 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:43:30 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [] 14:43:35 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 14:43:49 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 14:44:12 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:44:29 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:44:30 doing thread apply all call backtrace_from_fp($ebp, 100) seems to succeed (judging from what gdb shows), but I can nowhere find the backtrace output 14:44:48 -!- dym [~dym@217.20.175.226] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:44:58 in your 14:45:00 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 14:45:05 *inferior-lisp* buffer? 14:45:31 nope not even there 14:45:39 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:45:54 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:46:10 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 14:46:19 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:46:42 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Client Quit] 14:46:49 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 14:46:50 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:47:04 hrm 14:47:18 I would really like to know why I get sbcl locked up from time to time 14:47:21 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 14:47:43 it's resting 14:47:49 once thread is stucked in accept (probably swank protocol reader thread), one in select (native listener?), the others in futex-wait 14:48:01 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:48:13 segmond [~seg@adsl-99-59-64-210.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:48:32 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 14:48:35 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@g229115072.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 14:48:45 si 14:49:05 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:49:12 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:49:22 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 14:49:34 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:49:43 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 14:49:47 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-52.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:49:47 -!- illuminati1113 [~user@pool-74-96-222-179.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 14:50:23 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:50:57 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 14:51:32 illuminati1113 [~user@pool-74-96-222-179.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:51:34 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:52:01 -!- afa [~afa@131.152.178.51] has quit [Quit: afa] 14:52:05 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 14:52:14 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 14:52:22 fiveop [~fiveop@g229115072.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:52:45 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:52:56 futex-wait in lisp code gets (get-lisp-obj-address me) as second argument, gdb shows that being 8 14:53:04 is that NIL? 14:53:11 -!- smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:53:16 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 14:53:37 hm no 14:53:41 makes no sense 14:53:46 how could that be 8?? 14:53:57 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:54:16 ah wait, how are fixnums encoded on x86-32? 14:54:27 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 14:54:52 dym [~dym@217.20.175.226] has joined #lisp 14:54:53 basically two low 0 bits 14:55:06 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:55:19 so 8 is lisp-fixnum 2, which is +lock-contested+ 14:55:35 smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:55:38 -!- bigwavejake [~user@user-0c8hqku.cable.mindspring.com] has left #lisp 14:55:41 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 14:55:56 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:56:17 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:56:48 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 14:57:00 billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 14:57:00 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Changing host] 14:57:00 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 14:57:27 -!- varjag is now known as varjagg 14:57:28 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:58:00 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 14:58:35 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 14:58:39 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:58:51 -!- lharc [~shrek@88.131.67.194] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:59:00 I know the address that is mutex-state-address that is the last slot in the MUTEX defstruct 14:59:13 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 14:59:15 given that I know that address, shouldn't I be able to get at the NAME slot? 14:59:50 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00:21 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 15:01:01 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:01:03 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:01:32 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 15:02:12 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:02:43 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 15:03:10 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:03:22 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:03:53 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 15:04:01 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:04:33 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:04:38 -!- balooga [~00u4440@adsl-99-131-62-220.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:04:58 rstandy [~rastandy@net-93-144-136-208.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 15:05:04 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 15:05:44 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:05:58 hi 15:06:10 hello rstandy 15:06:16 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 15:06:30 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:06:36 (+ (GET-LISP-OBJ-ADDRESS INSTANCE) (- (* 4 SB-VM:N-WORD-BYTES) SB-VM:INSTANCE-POINTER-LOWTAG)) 15:06:39 how can I specifify with clsql that I don't want column name transformation? (I have a column name with hypen in the database and CLSQL converts it to undersocre) 15:06:45 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 15:06:49 *underscore 15:06:55 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:07:21 Why the subtraction? 15:07:26 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 15:07:30 and why the subtraction at that point? 15:07:30 -!- smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:07:30 -!- blandest [~blandest@85.204.33.242] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:07:45 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-xo.basistech.com] has joined #lisp 15:07:53 tcr: Subtraction to remove the lowtag. The question I have is "why the bare 4"? 15:08:02 (this seems to compute the address of the 3rd slot) 15:08:06 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:08:37 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 15:08:40 Ah. Header, layout, then slots? 15:08:44 -!- jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit [Quit: Boot me gently] 15:09:01 yes it's actually (+ instance-slots-offset 3) 15:09:08 Why the third slot directly, and not via something a little more principled and based on the slot-name? 15:09:17 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:09:24 oh it's the macroexpansion of define-structure-slot-accessor 15:09:26 smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:09:30 just trying to understand it 15:09:33 Fair enough. 15:09:44 can you explain the lowtag bit in more detail? I just don't get it 15:09:48 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 15:10:17 -!- Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 15:10:21 Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has joined #lisp 15:10:28 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:10:42 All allocation is done with an alignment of at least two heap words. A lowtag is then added. 15:10:59 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 15:11:06 -!- TR2N [email@89.180.184.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:11:16 get-lisp-obj-address returns a tagged pointer, so you need to remove the lowtag to obtain an address suitable for direct memory access. 15:11:35 deathdefineslife [~jot_n@h-60-147.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 15:11:38 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:12:10 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 15:12:41 but why subtract it from the slot offset rather than add it onto the lisp-obj-address? 15:12:42 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 15:12:49 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:13:20 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 15:14:00 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:14:31 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 15:15:07 pbalogh [~pbalogh@12.14.38.6] has joined #lisp 15:15:11 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:15:12 Two reasons. First is that you'd subtract it from lisp-obj-address anyway, and second is that it's better to keep the direct reference to INSTANCE around as long as possible. 15:15:42 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 15:16:22 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:16:37 (Really, I'd probably int-sap the address, sap-ref-word the result with the computed offset, then %make-lisp-object to get usable data, but that's horrifyingly low-level in some ways.) 15:16:53 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 15:17:08 And I'd use %make- instead of make- because the latter does a lot of sanity checks and they should be elided in this case. 15:17:33 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:17:50 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:17:59 I also freely admit that I play fast and loose with GC rules, and that I might get caught out on a cheneygc platform. 15:18:04 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 15:18:19 well I computed the address where I think the name slot is by hand, and I want now poke at it in gdb :-) 15:18:44 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:19:15 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 15:19:29 Ahh. 15:19:55 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:20:26 There's probably a good argument around for someone writing up a guide to random SBCL+gdb tricks. 15:20:26 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 15:20:33 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:21:05 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:21:10 printing it got me 120 15:21:20 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:21:37 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 15:21:47 nipra [~nipra@115.118.183.212] has joined #lisp 15:22:04 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 15:22:16 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:22:26 Are you sure that's the name slot, then? 15:22:31 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:22:45 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 15:22:47 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 15:23:27 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:23:32 seems like print 0x80 just prints the number in decimal 15:23:41 print *0x80 says it cannot reference the address 15:23:58 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 15:24:38 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:24:41 nyef: I couldn't find one even for C++ 15:24:58 -!- legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-19-142.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:25:09 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 15:25:49 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:26:20 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 15:27:00 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:27:01 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:27:25 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 15:27:31 palter [~palter@2002:4855:eb9a:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 15:28:11 -!- 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16:01:47 -!- nunb [~nundan@122.162.138.14] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:02:03 tmh [~user@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 16:02:08 Greetings lispers. 16:03:19 Harag [~Harag@41.56.13.157] has joined #lisp 16:03:53 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-20-228.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 16:04:06 I think you're supposed to use x\ to examine memory in gdb 16:04:11 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:04:28 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 16:04:37 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 16:05:08 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 16:06:19 Ok, using ASDF with LispWorks on Windows 7 is borked. 16:06:48 lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 16:06:49 I just used SBCL on Windows 7 to load alexandria and it worked fine. 16:07:22 The ASDF in the contrib directory of SBCL puts the FASL files in the source directory. 16:07:47 -!- HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:07:53 Don't forget, today is the Early Registration Deadline for sbcl10! Apply now or pay more later! 16:08:31 sbcl10? 16:08:34 ASDF from the git respository in LispWorks tries to put the FASL files in a cache directory and fails. 16:08:43 gah 16:08:46 jsnell: you know what I mean 16:08:53 everyone else: els2010 16:08:57 -!- rstandy [~rastandy@net-93-144-136-208.t2.dsl.vodafone.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:09:16 of course, if you're definitely coming, I would prefer you to register after the early registration deadline 16:09:25 because then I will become VERY RICH 16:10:04 heheh 16:10:15 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:10:39 You'd be the first to get VERY RICH off of a technical paper conference. 16:11:08 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:11:24 So, the solution is to (asdf:disable-output-translations), but my question is does anyone actually use a cache directory for the FASL files? 16:11:29 -!- plage [~user@serveur5.labri.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:11:38 Is SBCL/PPC with cheneygc expected to work, or is it now gencgc only? 16:11:41 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:11:57 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 16:14:17 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [] 16:14:23 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 16:16:22 tmh: have you tried ASDF v1.6xx or newer? 16:16:44 p_l: I'm using the head of the master branch. 16:17:11 So, I guess the version is 1.705. 16:17:24 tmh: I used something like this to keep output translation while not borking SBCL: (#.(translate-logical-pathname "SYS:SRC;"))(#.(translate-logical-pathname "SYS:CONTRIB;")) 16:17:26 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:19:01 p_l: Well, I actually dug into asdf.lisp and have a decent idea of what the problem is, it's just that I don't know if it is worth fixing. If no one uses a cache directory for the FASL's, why bother fixing it. Disabling the output translation works fine. 16:19:23 tmh: in what way do the fasl caching fails on lispworks? 16:19:56 incorrect paths? (that's what made it necessary for me to define those two translations) 16:20:08 p_l: Yes, bogus paths. 16:20:22 tmh: could paste an example? 16:20:26 -!- mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.15/2009101909]] 16:21:26 wedgeV [~wedge@rrcs-24-103-21-79.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:22:19 p_l: I'll have to generate it, I don't have anything handy that would be useful. 16:22:28 somecodehere [~ingvar@16.198.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 16:23:22 btw, any suggestions on how to use swank from within the application to do some extra introspection? 16:24:06 -!- Harag [~Harag@41.56.13.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:24:20 Reaver2 [~Joachim@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 16:25:39 the same way you would use it outside of the application 16:25:50 No suggestion beyond how you normally use it. 16:26:22 I would be concerned, though, about leaving a swank port open all the time in an application. 16:26:24 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:26:32 -!- somecodehere [~ingvar@16.198.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:26:36 Xof: around? 16:26:41 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 16:26:51 -!- Reaver1 [~Joachim@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:27:52 tmh: well, many apps have swank port open all the time anyway (web/server stuff), and it should work to use it without server, shouldn't it? 16:28:26 it would work 16:28:53 p_l: I don't know how to use swank without creating a server. 16:29:56 um. that is all trivial: (swank:create-server :dont-close t) 16:30:23 hypno: especially "without creating a server" part 16:30:23 for me, on SCL and CCL, it only binds to localhost 4005 so you can use a ssh tunnel to connect to it with your local emacs. 16:30:56 well, i know how to use slime locally, without a server 16:31:02 hypno: I guess I'm confused, that's how I always use swank. I forgot it only binds to localhost. 16:31:48 -!- vtl [~user@nat/redhat/x-gpxyehfgwunglhwj] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:32:07 stassats: duh. sorry. 16:35:32 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:36:13 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:36:27 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:37:32 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:39:14 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:39:23 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 16:40:21 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:40:50 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 16:41:38 Younder [~jthing@212.251.245.39] has joined #lisp 16:41:56 luis: hello? 16:42:16 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:42:30 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 16:44:26 p_l: I'm not sure how to show the problem with output translatoins in ASDF. It's a combination of asdf::*output-translations* specifying directories that aren't present on Windows 7 combined with, I think, an incorrect merging of the cache absolute directory with the relative FASL directory. 16:45:55 I need to move on at this point, I've already wasted the entire morning messing with ASDF. 16:45:59 alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 16:48:30 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-11-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:49:38 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@e195-051.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:51:39 tmh: so it didn't have proper paths for windows? 16:51:48 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.97.35] has joined #lisp 16:52:24 p_l: Specifically, Windows 7 + LispWorks 6 16:52:50 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:52:57 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:54:57 well, it's NT6, so it got different filesystem layout than NT5 or NT4 (not to mention that said filesystem layout can change per-installation depending on config...) 16:55:43 Sure, that's why I don't want to dig into fixing it unless people actually use caches for ASDF generated FASL files. 16:55:46 I could try working on that, but I don't have access to LW (other than the faulty personal one on linux) 16:55:49 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-207-45.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:08 -!- jlf [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has left #lisp 16:56:31 tmh: The reason why I didn't use FASL cache before was only because I found old asdf extension for that to be cumbersome in use. 16:56:42 and it definitely makes for a cleaner system. 16:57:02 p_l: I would be willing to dig into it if putting the FASL files in a cache is useful. I've not done it that way, I just relied on the default behavior of ASDF in SBCL. 16:57:37 p_l: Honestly, I think ASDF is trying to be *too* clever. It should setup a much simpler cache. 16:58:35 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 16:58:57 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Client Quit] 16:59:04 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 16:59:17 ASDF doesn't like to be anthropomorphized. 16:59:20 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 16:59:53 Heh, ok, the ASDF developers are trying to be *too* clever. (sorry ASDF). 17:00:26 alinp [~alinp@89.137.98.94] has joined #lisp 17:00:26 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:00:37 tmh: Well, it was slightly troublesome when I was faced with configuration scheme at first, but later I found it very useful for my purposes. 17:00:50 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 17:01:07 Mind you, I'm doing some sideline work which needs to extend ASDF and welcomes the new configuration system with joy 17:01:27 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:03:08 p_l: I didn't even look into the configuration system, I was just relying on the default behavior. That is another complication to "Doing It Right"(tm), it needs to work with the configuration system. 17:04:15 btw, is there a way to save context for later execution, so I could free a thread for usage by another piece of code, other than making a lambda, putting it into work queue and returning from function that was executing? 17:05:16 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 17:07:34 gonzojive_ [~red@rescomp-09-162682.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 17:08:43 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 17:10:04 dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 17:11:10 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:11:39 -!- Reaver2 [~Joachim@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has left #lisp 17:12:43 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-135-10.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:01 -!- dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:16:26 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:16:46 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 17:16:51 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:17:28 -!- alinp [~alinp@89.137.98.94] has quit [Quit: alinp] 17:17:58 p_l: you just described cooperative threading. 17:19:53 could someone help with this "The name "GTK" does not designate any package." I'm trying to finally write something in lisp, and it seems rather random as to whether sbcl will compile it or not 17:19:55 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 17:20:04 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 17:20:12 fisxoj, maybe you shouldn't start with gui code 17:21:00 Perhaps you do not ask nicely enough, sbcl is pretty picky 17:21:09 fisxoj: Are you making sure that whatever GTK bindings you're using are loaded before you compile/load your own software? 17:21:10 HET3, too late! Anything more constructive? Think of it just as a "it seems like lisp isn't acknowledging packages I think I have installed" problem 17:21:28 packages installed is not the same thing as packages the Lisp concept being available 17:21:32 fisxoj, hehe feel free to ignore troll-help =p 17:21:33 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:21:34 it's not gtk specific, if I switch package names around, I get the error for whatever is first 17:21:34 fisxoj: you don't 'install' packages. 17:21:41 "packages installed" is "stuff on the filesystem" 17:22:04 "packages the Lisp concept existing" means that some action has been taken to load the code that makes that package available into the running lisp image 17:22:05 I've spent a year or more poking at lisp occasionally and have no idea hoe packages are supposed to work 17:22:18 fisxoj: packages are namespaces. That's all. 17:22:30 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 17:22:30 packages the lisp concept are basically namespaces, made available by loading or otherwise executing code that creates them 17:22:31 the blobs of code you download and load with, say, asdf, are called systems. 17:22:36 then how do I make sure sbcl knows about them? 17:22:37 fisxoj: http://weitz.de/packages.html has some info about the terminology 17:22:53 fisxoj: first, read that link. Then, read Xach's tutorial on asdf. 17:23:37 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:25:37 -!- tompa [~tompa@h59ec27fb.sehjjak.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 17:26:33 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:26:46 -!- Joreji [~thomas@71-255.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:26:48 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:27:42 pkhuong: yes. The thing is, I want it on top of bordeaux-threads 17:28:14 -!- Krystof [~csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:28:45 ok, I know how to load things with asdf, now I've read that link and will call things systems, and I still don't know why sbcl just complains when it gets to the :use in my defpackage 17:29:01 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:29:37 fisxoj: create an ASDF definition for your code which will describe your dependencies and load order for your own code. 17:29:44 fisxoj, did you actually load the package before using it? 17:29:45 p_l: threads + semaphore. 17:30:23 HET3, I'm probably still trying to force lisp into a C box, but, why do I need to manually load my dependencies before trying to compile things? 17:30:25 gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-169-81-90.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:30 What is the default test for PUSHNEW? 17:30:32 pkhuong: what about cost of threads? I'd like to create quite a lot of such small threads then execute them with a thread pool. 17:30:42 fisxoj, err :) 17:30:45 fisxoj: think of ASDF as a makefile. 17:30:50 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 17:30:51 I'm trying to get a grip on this lisp thing, I really am 17:30:53 ok 17:30:56 fisxoj, think of lisp as a virtual machine which happens to run your code 17:31:27 -!- gigamonk` is now known as gigamonkey` 17:31:38 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-207-45.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:31:40 -!- gigamonkey` is now known as gigamonkey 17:31:50 fisxoj: so if you write an ASDF file for your code, and use it to load, it will ensure that all dependencies are satisfied and loaded. 17:31:56 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:32:01 prxq [~mommer@g226209192.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:32:07 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:32:13 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 17:32:27 fisxoj, use and load are kinda like include and link in c 17:32:28 hi 17:32:32 so I need another .asd file for the code that calls .asd files... 17:32:38 it's still IMHO not as bad as Java's CLASSPATH issues. 17:32:49 omg java's classpath issues 17:32:53 fisxoj: you don't call ASDF from application code, at least not normally. 17:32:59 or worse even - fixing classpath issues with maven 17:33:01 *shudder* 17:33:21 p_l, I know, I just meant code that relies on them through asdf 17:33:26 -!- potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f665365-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:33:42 fisxoj: why would you need that second .asd? [sorry, just logged in] 17:34:02 prxq, to ensure code my code depends on in other systems gets loaded first 17:34:13 -!- milanj [~milanj_@77.46.202.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:34:18 -!- err`` [~user@lawn-143-215-206-57.lawn.gatech.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:34:23 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:34:31 I'm trying to learn how to actually use lisp for something other than playing around in the REPL 17:34:56 fisxoj, usually it is best to avoid it =p 17:34:57 fisxoj: normally, you have depends-on at the system level for that 17:36:07 quux pasted "SBCL memory usage vs. SCL" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98153 17:36:15 fisxoj: don't make a mistake of thinking of Lisp in terms of how Python or Ruby load their dependencies. 17:36:37 haven't used them anyway 17:36:43 just C and fortran 17:37:43 fisxoj: what lisp book are you using 17:37:45 ? 17:38:34 milanj [~milanj_@93.87.167.78] has joined #lisp 17:39:29 mostly gigamonkeys 17:39:34 I've looked through a couple though 17:40:29 i've found there are no really good books on cotemporary common lisp 17:40:32 mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:40:39 peter seibel's book is alright i guess 17:40:46 but it's still quite simplicistic 17:40:48 everything only tells you some basics 17:40:54 yeah 17:40:59 and none talk about stuff like asdf 17:41:04 the asdf docs are a joke really 17:41:13 -!- HET3 is now known as HET2 17:41:37 hmph, why do people not on the channel lisppaste questions to it... 17:41:42 potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f665365-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 17:42:10 To let us know that they are thinking of us. 17:42:27 jsnell: Bookmarks? 17:43:19 bookmarks? 17:43:25 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:43:29 HET2: what are you looking for then? 17:44:34 gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-39-6-123.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:44:54 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-169-81-90.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:44:57 -!- gigamonk` is now known as gigamonkey 17:45:27 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:45:30 jsnell: If you bookmark lisppaste for #lisp, then you'll likely use it whenever you need a pastebin for anywhere. 17:46:17 ok, but I don't think anyone would have been pasting a question about sbcl vs. scl memory use on some other channel 17:46:40 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:46:56 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 17:47:24 I guess that's fair. 17:49:01 I haven't seen any mis-pastes here, really 17:49:40 though sometimes the people who made them weren't in the channel, even then it contained (at least to me) useful information. 17:52:22 Hrm. Okay, fresh-built 1.0.37.59/linux/x86-64 passes dynamic-extent.impure.lisp. Fresh-built 1.0.37.59/linux/ppc hangs. 17:54:18 ok, never mind. given mr. "quux" of the paste 15 minutes ago isn't stepping out I guess it'd be a waste of time to answer the question 17:54:26 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:55:57 I don't understand the question 17:57:36 Is it why it seems to be much less in SCL? 17:58:05 well, that's what I assumed the question to be 17:58:35 I'd be interested in the answer 17:58:48 he didn't get stats for the read-only space 17:59:33 which on sbcl would be empty, while on scl presumably would have a lot of stuff in it 18:00:52 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-xo.basistech.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:01:51 wingless [~awesome@unaffiliated/wingless] has joined #lisp 18:02:22 -!- nipra [~nipra@115.118.183.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:02:28 ehu, i'll know when i see it =p 18:03:08 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:03:08 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-135-10.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [*.net 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amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:55:54 merl15 [~merl@188-22-174-151.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 18:57:36 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:58:00 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 18:59:26 faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 18:59:42 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-078-042-205-245.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:00:48 phobbs [~phobbs@2001:1878:301:d00:222:19ff:fe07:ec66] has joined #lisp 19:01:52 I can get sbcl almost reliably into that deadlock situation 19:01:55 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 19:02:36 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-11-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:03:30 question: Is there a way to do ,@ multiple times? e.g. if foo is ((bar baz)) how do I get something like `(bag ,@@foo) to yield (bag bar baz)? 19:03:57 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@2002:47f7:62d6:0:223:12ff:fe52:c2f9] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:04:01 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 19:04:01 plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-111-73.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 19:04:13 ,@(car foo) 19:04:54 thanks, adeht 19:04:54 dnolen [~dnolen@2002:47f7:62d6:0:223:12ff:fe52:c2f9] has joined #lisp 19:06:46 -!- phobbs [~phobbs@2001:1878:301:d00:222:19ff:fe07:ec66] has left #lisp 19:08:05 futex_wait (lock_word=0x80, oldval=8, sec=-1, usec=0) at linux-os.c:136 19:08:14 it's always 0x80 19:09:02 given that's always the same address, can I somehow find out from the sbcl core what's loaded at that address on start up? 19:09:18 I mean what's sitting there 19:10:09 gdb always reports that it cannot access that memory... what are possible reasons for that? 19:11:39 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 19:12:56 well, it's unlikely that sbcl would be locking a futex on the first page of memory 19:13:02 -!- illuminati1113 [~user@pool-74-96-222-179.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:13:28 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-88-162.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 19:14:16 benny [~benny@i577A7247.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:14:43 -!- shofetim [~user@173-165-131-134-utah.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has left #lisp 19:14:44 *luis* wonders if that has something to do with interrupt 0x80 19:14:47 illuminati1113 [~user@pool-74-96-222-179.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:15:07 tompa [~tompa@h59ec27fb.sehjjak.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #lisp 19:15:38 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:16:33 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 19:16:35 the lock word comes from get-lisp-obj-addr; what could be reasons for it returning such an address? 19:17:36 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:17:37 Is that the straight result of get-lisp-obj-addr, or post-munging? 19:18:30 oh I looked wrongly, it's actually the result of (mutex-state-address ) 19:18:40 nurv [nurv@83.231.16.98] has joined #lisp 19:18:44 which computes what I pasted earlier 19:19:16 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 19:20:26 there's pretty funky control flow going on, unwinding, jumps etc 19:20:42 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:20:58 with-mutex allocates a dx-closure for the body 19:21:13 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@host102-108-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:21:21 so ideal receipt for bad things to happen :-) 19:23:19 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 19:23:57 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:24:40 -!- Elench [~jarv@dsl-217-155-101-22.zen.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:24:42 enthymeme [~kraken@130.166.209.7] has joined #lisp 19:27:05 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:27:08 Hrm. "unexpect forwarding pointer in scavenge: 0x546576a0, start=0x54950000, n=%"? 19:27:20 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 19:27:46 shofetim [~user@173-165-131-134-utah.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:28:21 Ooh. Repeatable, too. 19:28:36 the sbcl page on sourceforge tells me that related projects are "a source code coverage tool for Java" and "a textual language for creating UML diagrams" 19:28:52 that's just offensive 19:29:11 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:26 Okay, hash.impure.lisp is reliably failing for me. 19:29:51 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:30:34 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 19:31:57 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:33:21 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:33:39 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 19:33:58 -!- cmatei [cmatei@95.76.148.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:34:41 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.148.87] has joined #lisp 19:35:14 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:35:59 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 19:36:09 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:36:28 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 19:36:36 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 19:37:01 -!- mbd [~user@202.80.41.159] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:37:47 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:37:47 -!- drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:38:17 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 19:39:32 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.66.226] has joined #lisp 19:41:59 -!- ThomasI [~thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit [Quit: Bye Bye!] 19:42:28 what's a good function for splitting a string with a regex? 19:43:13 Why a regex, particularly? 19:43:32 (And surely this would be documented by whatever regex package you're planning on using?) 19:43:51 i plan on splitting by whitespace 19:44:07 i know the perl regex for that is easy --> \s 19:44:18 Hey, is the SBCL test suite supposed to just pause for (:run-program :inherit-stdin)? 19:45:24 bigwavejake: cl-ppcre:split 19:46:14 Xach: nice. thanks! 19:47:05 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:48:02 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 19:48:08 nyef: I think I remember that someone reported that last week ago 19:48:18 *lichtblau* didn't know until last week that CL-PPCRE's package has a PPCRE nickname without the cl- 19:48:34 tcr: Fun. 19:48:43 Now I wouldn't want to go back. 19:49:07 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 19:49:11 I think I'm going to have to post to sbcl-devel with a "Test PPC Status (TPS) Report" or something. 19:49:43 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@rescomp-09-162682.Stanford.EDU] has quit [Quit: gonzojive_] 19:50:00 nyef: wednesday, sbcl-general 19:50:16 Ah. That'd be why I didn't see it. 19:50:22 wednesday, the week before 19:50:39 hm no actually it's the 7th 19:50:41 *nyef* doesn't track sbcl-general. 19:51:00 you should just use gmane :-) 19:51:18 Perhaps. 19:51:26 -!- gaelle35 [~gaelle@ARennes-257-1-26-232.w81-53.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:53:21 gaelle35 [~gaelle@ARennes-257-1-26-232.w81-53.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:53:39 wedgeV [~wedge@rrcs-24-103-21-79.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:54:19 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:55:29 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 19:56:06 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 19:56:53 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 19:57:19 dnolen_ [~dnolen@209.131.113.150] has joined #lisp 19:57:25 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:59:07 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@2002:47f7:62d6:0:223:12ff:fe52:c2f9] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:59:07 -!- dnolen_ is now known as dnolen 20:01:51 -!- gaelle35 [~gaelle@ARennes-257-1-26-232.w81-53.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:02:01 ... inherit-stdin fails for me on x86-64 linux. :-/ 20:02:02 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@rrcs-24-103-21-79.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 20:02:41 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:02:58 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 20:03:00 brookeGarcia [~brookeGar@dsl-156-241.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 20:03:06 gaelle35 [~gaelle@ARennes-257-1-26-232.w81-53.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:03:59 davazp [~user@83.57.37.58] has joined #lisp 20:04:37 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:04:46 -!- segmond [~seg@adsl-99-59-64-210.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:05:30 dshep [~user@dan75-7-88-166-185-201.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:44 -!- HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:06:28 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 20:08:42 gonzojive_ [~red@171.66.89.97] has joined #lisp 20:08:58 -!- saikat_ [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: saikat_] 20:11:42 Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 20:13:01 -!- sellout [~greg@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: sellout] 20:13:34 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:13:53 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 20:15:14 -!- bigwavejake [~user@user-0c8hqku.cable.mindspring.com] has left #lisp 20:18:02 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.12.21] has joined #lisp 20:18:37 -!- andreer [andreer@flode.pvv.ntnu.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:18:42 andreer [andreer@flode.pvv.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 20:20:44 mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has joined #lisp 20:21:12 -!- andreer [andreer@flode.pvv.ntnu.no] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:21:20 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757394.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:22:24 Lars`` [vonli@lynx.stud.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 20:23:00 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 20:23:27 vsync: is pinot available? 20:23:41 andreer [andreer@flode.pvv.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 20:23:57 -!- Lars` [vonli@lynx.stud.ntnu.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:24:23 google to the rescue. 20:25:13 -!- deathdefineslife [~jot_n@h-60-147.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [] 20:25:17 amaron_ [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 20:25:47 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:26:06 marioxcc [~user@200.92.179.167] has joined #lisp 20:28:30 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 20:29:14 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 20:29:45 -!- zeugma [~user@ccfl-a4f-3.unl.edu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:30:50 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:31:18 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0090-205-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:32:10 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 20:33:04 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 20:33:12 hello 20:34:10 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Client Quit] 20:34:31 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 20:35:25 mishoo [~mishoo@host102-108-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 20:35:48 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93.87.167.78] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:37:46 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:38:42 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20:42:18 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@130.166.209.7] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 20:45:44 saikat_ [~saikat@ppp-71-139-170-34.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:08 -!- andreer [andreer@flode.pvv.ntnu.no] has quit [Quit: zzz.] 20:50:02 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:50:06 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:50:30 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 20:51:29 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@171.66.89.97] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:51:47 gonzojive_ [~red@171.66.89.97] has joined #lisp 20:52:46 Joreji [~thomas@71-255.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 20:52:49 francogrex [~user@70.107-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 20:53:18 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 20:53:47 btw, wth is "Zeta Stream"? 20:54:34 -!- amaron_ [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:55:34 p_l: where did you find that ? 20:55:35 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@209.131.113.150] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:55:36 -!- levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Quit: ...] 20:56:19 dnolen [~dnolen@209.131.113.150] has joined #lisp 20:56:51 merl15_ [~merl@188-22-167-85.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 20:57:41 -!- saikat_ is now known as saikat 20:58:00 fe[nl]ix: IOlib 20:58:43 p_l: it's a stream library I started a while ago, and unfinished ATM 20:59:04 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:59:17 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 21:00:06 anyway, IOlib seems to be preferred library now. Should it be where development of similar code be concentrated? 21:00:38 -!- merl15 [~merl@188-22-174-151.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:00:50 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.148.87] has quit [Disconnected by services] 21:00:58 p_l: I'd love that. would you like to contribute ? 21:01:03 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.18.242] has joined #lisp 21:01:39 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:02:17 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@g229115072.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 21:04:08 does anyone in here use ecl? 21:04:27 or maybe this is common to all interpreters 21:04:37 when i try using the arrow keys 21:04:41 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:04:48 i get the asci excape sequence 21:04:52 instead of the cursor moving 21:05:00 fe[nl]ix: well, I was thinking of adding AIO support 21:05:25 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.66.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:05:25 p_l: how would you do that ? 21:05:27 also, does portable-hemlock use cl-ncurses or is its TTY code written from scratch? 21:05:42 fe[nl]ix: there's POSIX AIO library - CFFI into that. 21:05:45 PuffTheMagic: it is rather common. They are rarely used directly. 21:05:59 attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 21:06:20 PuffTheMagic: clisp has readline linked in, so it behaves as you'd expect 21:06:21 PuffTheMagic: because that sequence is what is sent by terminal to the application - unless you have something handling it, it will get printed. 21:06:31 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 21:06:40 PuffTheMagic: and, it is not an interpreter. At least not in general. 21:06:41 most implementations don't do any terminal handling. 21:07:01 yeah, because they are used from a comint buffer or above 21:07:11 so what is a good ide that is not emacs yet opensource 21:07:13 -!- shofetim [~user@173-165-131-134-utah.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has left #lisp 21:07:14 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:07:26 p_l: POSIX AIO is very limited and the OS support is very inconsistent 21:07:49 p_l: on Linux, you can only use it with regular files 21:07:55 not sockets or pipes 21:07:58 PuffTheMagic: I think vim has an option. It is fakirism, though. Learn emacs and be done :-) 21:08:12 fe[nl]ix: it's better than nothing, IMHO. Also, Linux 2.6 got AIO working for files (because all the rest got scrapped - there was support in 2.5) 21:08:15 i refuse to use emacs 21:08:23 PuffTheMagic: well, too bad then. 21:08:25 PuffTheMagic: maybe you want rlwrap 21:08:39 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 21:08:48 PuffTheMagic: perhaps you want to show us how clever you are by telling us why 21:08:52 fe[nl]ix: also, I was thinking of porting as much as possible to win32/64 at some point, and maybe other OSes. 21:09:13 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:09:36 p_l: I welcome porting to windows, and I'd help you with that as much as possible 21:10:21 p_l: as for Posix AIO, I've already considered it and I don't intend to include it into iolib 21:11:00 fe[nl]ix: also, I was thinking a lot about just getting interface for all of the functions I want, even if they might not be perfectly supported by OS - I still hold a torch for porting a CL implementation to VMS :) 21:11:08 and VMS doesn't have synchronous I/O :) 21:11:12 prxq: its not about being clever, i havent liked my experiences with emacs and dont want to learn it to write lisp 21:11:35 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:11:44 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.66.226] has joined #lisp 21:11:48 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:11:56 i realize thats all people seem to use 21:11:58 PuffTheMagic: there are few Vim interfaces, and there's Cusp, but I have doubts about the amount of help you'll get here for them, since they are used by a small minority. 21:11:59 PuffTheMagic: try Eclipse, I guess 21:12:20 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:12:23 Cusp is eclipse extension. Nekthuth(sp?) and Limp are for Vim. 21:12:28 rvirding [~chatzilla@h80n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 21:12:36 i didnt mean for this to get into an IDE war really 21:12:38 PuffTheMagic: the comercial lisps have IDEs. You can use a trial version before biting the bullet :-) 21:12:50 i just didnt realize the lack of readline support 21:12:51 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 21:12:54 PuffTheMagic: it has not gotten into one 21:13:46 PuffTheMagic: emacs is worth the time to get started. It really is. 21:14:35 fe[nl]ix: another thing I wanted to add to IOlib would be usocket compatibility library 21:15:14 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:15:45 PuffTheMagic: why don't you want to use emacs? 21:16:02 -!- nurv [nurv@83.231.16.98] has quit [] 21:16:22 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 21:16:40 p_l: can I dissuade you from that ? it would make little sense 21:17:14 fe[nl]ix: I'd like to slowly consolidate dependencies for various projects. 21:17:48 PuffTheMagic: There's one lisp that added 'support' for readline. It got slapped with a stallman. Right across the face. 21:17:53 PuffTheMagic: use rlwrap :) 21:18:04 this way, I'll have only IOlib with all the new functionality that might be added, and still use Hunchentoot on the same sockets. 21:18:13 I'm trying to find a lib/way to open a web connection in cl and show the html content in the REPL; i trued cl-web-crawler, drakma and trivial-http but those are not. 21:18:29 francogrex: are not what? 21:18:32 drakma works damn well here. 21:18:35 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@host102-108-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:18:41 drakma. It's easy to get the output on the repl 21:18:43 PuffTheMagic: there's a readline/libedit contrib for ecl 21:18:57 tcr: ecl or ecls? 21:19:12 thom_logn [~thom@pool-74-100-140-188.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:12 PuffTheMagic: Embeddable Common Lisp 21:19:14 sykopomp: p_l: drakma outputs strange format 21:19:27 there are 2 of those though 21:19:29 ecl and ecls 21:19:29 francogrex: then wrap it with a function? 21:19:37 they both claim to be "embeddable common lisp" 21:19:40 I don't understand why you want a completely new library for this. 21:19:46 is there a "factor number" in the cl library? 21:20:05 PuffTheMagic: ECL's website is ecls.sf.net because ecl.sf.net was already taken 21:20:06 nurv [nurv@83.231.16.191] has joined #lisp 21:20:07 www.weitz.de/drakma/ 21:20:10 the name of the implementation is ECL 21:20:12 PuffTheMagic: they are one and the same. 21:20:20 oh 21:21:06 -!- nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: Privacy rights are not to protect you from the government you know, they're to protect you from the future government you don't.] 21:21:24 sykopomp: how would that go? (I could also simply use trvial-http then) 21:21:38 wgl` [~wgl@50.sub-75-206-73.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 21:22:00 *wgl`* checks 21:22:07 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [] 21:22:12 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 21:22:13 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-39-6-123.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:23:37 *francogrex* feels useless these days because not doing anything inventive in tersm of programming 21:24:00 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@213162066165.public.t-mobile.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:25:04 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:25:49 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 21:27:54 Googling for "factoring numbers using lisp" turns up zero results. does anyone know of such a library for lisp? 21:28:09 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:28:38 *francogrex* cycling again through all implementations and recently I've developed an increased liking for ccl. 21:28:43 -!- Joreji [~thomas@71-255.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:29:41 segmond [~seg@adsl-99-59-64-210.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:30:43 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:30:43 thom_logn: I've never heard of any. You are looking for prime number stuff? 21:31:44 -!- davertron [~Dave@vt-sb-1.logicsupply.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:32:06 -!- gaelle35 [~gaelle@ARennes-257-1-26-232.w81-53.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:32:36 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:33:02 anekos [~anekos@pl030.nas926.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 21:33:03 -!- anekos [~anekos@pl030.nas926.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 21:34:10 anekos [~anekos@pl030.nas926.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 21:34:24 -!- palter [palter@clozure-CDE684CB.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 21:34:24 -!- palter [~palter@static-72-85-235-154.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 21:35:34 -!- prxq [~mommer@g226209192.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:36:50 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 21:39:07 In the SBCL debugger, is there a way to get ahold of the actual condition object? 21:39:27 yes, it's bound to some variable iirc 21:39:45 I don't suppose this would be a -documented- variable, would it? 21:39:46 sb-debug:*debug-condition* perhaps? 21:39:59 SB-DEBUG:*DEBUG-CONDITION* 21:40:39 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:40:44 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:40:49 how do you run your website? 21:41:13 Yeah, just found it. Doesn't seem to be documented, though. 21:41:43 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B838.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:43:13 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:44:40 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 21:45:22 gaelle35 [~gaelle@ARennes-257-1-26-232.w81-53.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:45:45 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 21:45:50 do you run your own server or buy it from a provider? Any provides support hunchentoot? 21:46:25 prxq: yes, just a function (factor N) returning (list factors...) 21:46:57 not anything fast obviously, just something that gets the job done for reasonably small numbers 21:48:16 leo2007: If you want a provider that supports hunchentoot, talk to drewc. 21:48:51 ok 21:52:55 -!- felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:52:58 kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-52.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 21:56:27 enthymeme [~kraken@130.166.209.7] has joined #lisp 21:57:54 -!- francogrex [~user@70.107-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:58:11 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 21:58:58 Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 22:02:02 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:02:14 -!- pbalogh [~pbalogh@12.14.38.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:02:26 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:02:58 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 22:03:23 billstclair [~billstcla@dsl-65-219-212-221.taconic.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:23 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@dsl-65-219-212-221.taconic.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:03:23 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 22:03:23 -!- wgl` [~wgl@50.sub-75-206-73.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:05:36 zeugma [~user@216.229.3.105] has joined #lisp 22:07:50 -!- alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:08:06 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 22:08:19 lacedaemon [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 22:08:26 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:09:13 -!- lacedaemon is now known as fe[nl]ix 22:12:09 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@171.66.89.97] has quit [Quit: gonzojive_] 22:12:15 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:12:50 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 22:13:04 -!- zeugma [~user@216.229.3.105] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:15:09 -!- tompa [~tompa@h59ec27fb.sehjjak.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 22:15:28 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:17:19 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-83-2.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:17:51 -!- faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has left #lisp 22:18:51 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:19:34 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 22:20:08 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 22:20:50 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:22:06 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 22:22:56 gonzojive_ [~red@171.66.51.155] has joined #lisp 22:26:11 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:27:22 Which external format should I use in hunchentoot for images? 22:29:07 rabuf [~user@ip68-230-168-93.mc.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:30:40 mps [~developer@187.67.1.254] has joined #lisp 22:31:29 list 22:31:36 -!- mps [~developer@187.67.1.254] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:32:37 firefox is not able to show my image that I get from hunchentoot if the image is big... 22:35:14 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:35:27 Corrupt JPEG data: 1 extraneous bytes before marker 0xd9 `img2.jpeg' @ jpeg.c/EmitMessage/227. 22:37:06 knobo: what's the value of that byte ? 22:38:41 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:40:58 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:41:07 I'm looking at the files with hexdump, and it looks like the image is not uploaded correct. I have to check few more things. 22:42:36 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 22:44:21 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:45:07 the content-length was wrong... 22:48:34 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:48:39 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-39-6-123.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:49:56 -!- straszhm [~troy@sodium.resophonic.com] has left #lisp 22:50:26 knobo: I'm planning on using apache or nginx for sending static data 22:51:26 knobo: if you use FastCGI, you can redirect to a static file as well. 22:51:43 I do recall fusss getting giant speedups this way 22:54:15 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@209.131.113.150] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 22:54:35 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:55:49 -!- davazp [~user@83.57.37.58] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:55:50 Right now I'll probably get speed issues as I have apache -> hunchentoot -> couchdb 22:56:44 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:57:36 seangrove [~user@70-36-146-156.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 22:57:52 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 22:58:06 Umm... Are we seeing occasional random failures, possibly GC-related, on x86-64? 22:58:48 nyef: the only failures I had seen were related to FFI code 22:59:38 Oh. I know why this isn't breaking! Contexts are stored on the stack, and the entire live stack space is treated as conservative roots. 22:59:53 Still, bloody frightening to see. 23:01:19 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:02:19 lordakinator [~igaray@190.97.33.72] has joined #lisp 23:02:30 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 23:02:36 -!- gaelle35 [~gaelle@ARennes-257-1-26-232.w81-53.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:03:18 christop` [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 23:03:38 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 23:03:39 knobo: Out of curiosity why have apache there at all? 23:03:47 -!- christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:04:26 Note to self: "seneca" might be a good name for a web server... 23:05:44 nyef: why ? 23:05:55 It's another indian tribe/nation. 23:06:22 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:06:30 uhm really? 23:06:36 Wiki says Roman scholar 23:06:56 yeah, my first reference is also a Roman scholar 23:06:58 -!- Soulman [~kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:07:10 Really. These days they run things like the seneca-niagara casino. 23:07:13 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:07:26 Thus, they were the first non-apache tribe to come to mind. 23:08:50 my first thought on non apache tribe: mohicans, and one of those starting with "Ch", like Cherokee... also, wasn't "Cheney" also an indian tribe? or something close to that? 23:09:44 Don't know. 23:10:08 There's also the Souix... 23:10:18 Sioux 23:10:26 Yeah, something like that. 23:10:41 ... "Siouxeyesighed"? 23:11:00 -!- christop` [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:11:03 like Siouxsie Sioux ;) 23:12:32 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has joined #lisp 23:12:44 I found a master list of indian tribe names, four of which begin with CL, two of which have alternate spellings. 23:14:41 ... "Common Lisp Advanced Technology Server of Pages", or "CLATSoP"? 23:14:44 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h80n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 23:15:24 (Something to do with the Chinook tribe, apparently.) 23:15:38 s/Advanced/Alien/. 23:17:24 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.66.226] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:17:38 -!- merl15_ [~merl@188-22-167-85.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:21:14 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:23:41 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 23:25:08 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@171.66.51.155] has quit [Quit: gonzojive_] 23:26:55 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:34:09 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:34:37 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.45] has joined #lisp 23:35:06 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 23:35:18 -!- dshep [~user@dan75-7-88-166-185-201.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:37:46 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.12.21] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:39:55 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 23:40:22 -!- scotty [~scott@66.112.250.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:42:26 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:42:57 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:43:23 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 23:43:40 *cmsimon* reads Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee 23:43:45 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279632868.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: hugod] 23:44:38 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 23:44:40 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279632868.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 23:45:28 Hi, is there a standard/portable/good way to find the 'size' of a file on Lisp (I'm using on SBCL). I can always sb-ext:run-program to ls/du and regex the output, but that seems annoying and brittle. 23:45:51 clhs file-length 23:45:52 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_file_l.htm 23:46:01 smanek: Enjoy. 23:46:19 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:46:21 nyef: thanks :-D 23:47:11 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@200.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:52:43 drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:53:01 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:57:22 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:59:32 lnostdal [~lnostdal@200.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 23:59:37 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]