00:00:13 rsynnott: Oracle is hell bent on destroying Snb 00:00:14 *Sun 00:00:33 as for Lisp, I'd probably use LFE on that ;-) 00:00:53 SCL. 00:01:17 Or a quick shared distributed heap hack. You probably don't want to hide the numaness too much anyway. 00:02:07 Oh, SCL runs on Sparc, of course 00:02:20 I wonder how their licensing model works for T2; they're per-core, right? :) 00:02:32 SCL? 00:02:58 is SCL still being actively developed? 00:02:59 Oh, apparently they're not 00:03:03 I'm sure they used to be 00:03:09 they've also cut their prices dramatically 00:03:37 doesn't seem so, and yeah, the prices have gone down by an order of magnitude. 00:03:43 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 00:03:49 I'd have bought it for my E4.5k. 00:04:29 Hmm, Lispworks have finally sorted out their Euro/dollar disparity, too, more or less 00:05:26 What is SCL, google is not being very helpful 00:05:33 pkhuong: E450 or E4500? 00:05:40 Guthur: http://www.scieneer.com/ 00:05:46 commercial fork of CMUCL 00:06:17 Does anyone actually use SCL? Never heard of it being used 00:07:12 rsynnott: 4500 00:07:19 rsynnott: I think it was marketed towards some computation-oriented folks, or those that want a lisp with native threading on SPARC and HP-PA 00:07:23 (and IA-64) 00:07:26 pkhuong: ah. Big computer 00:07:32 not anymore. 00:07:35 *p_l* want E25k 00:07:51 Oh, it supports IA-64? Hadn't realised anyone had bothered with lisp for Itanium 00:08:09 p_l: we would have rebuilt an E10k, except that we couldn't find anywhere to plug it. 00:08:44 *rsynnott* used to admin an E450 in college 00:08:55 it tended to break electricity supplies... 00:09:47 rsynnott: it uses binary translation for IA64 00:10:05 On the plus side, it heated the room very nicely in winter (it belonged to a student society, and for a long time wasn't in a proper machine room) 00:10:37 lol the warranty on an E450 -> Hardware: 3 years Software: 90 days 00:10:39 p_l, what's Snb? 00:10:48 Fare: a misspelling of Sun. 00:11:24 90 days, why even bother. 00:11:44 Guthur: that's more than warranty on any software that isn't part of embedded stuff... 00:11:57 p_l: true 00:12:00 90 days is enough to get you up and running, anyway 00:12:23 p_l: Oracle wants to kill misspellings of Sun? 00:12:23 (not always trivial on Sun's shiniest new machines; the original T1 machines were particularly famous for this) 00:12:44 Fare: no, Oracle already started cutting off Sun's clients. 00:12:45 I think it would have sounded better if they had said 3 months 00:13:04 p_l: uh? what's the point of buying sun, if not to get its clients? 00:13:08 Guthur: that would be ambigous 00:13:17 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:13:19 Fare: mysql, perhaps 00:13:37 Does CFFI officially support pinnable arrays yet? 00:13:38 Solaris, maybe? 00:13:44 or their ldap server 00:13:57 with Solaris x86, they can present an all-Oracle stack 00:14:03 which could be attractive to some 00:14:20 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:14:27 and Solaris is their big platform now, AFAIK; if Sun were to die then they'd have to transition those people to Linux or something 00:15:38 Fare: Apparently, Oracle isn't too bright on hardware. 00:16:11 they started by killing off anyone who bought a Solaris licence, making commercial licensing available only on Sun hardware. 00:16:32 How Apple of them 00:16:46 and nowadays, each Sun machine comes with base licence anyway, and you only buy support pack... 00:17:12 and even *big* customers oft use Solaris on non-Sun machines, like on IBM x86 blades. 00:17:25 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.72.9] has joined #lisp 00:18:22 *rsynnott* wonders how this effects Fujitsu's Sparc line 00:19:23 like the company I worked for two years ago - main billing cluster was DEC OSF/1 (aka Tru64), in progress of moving to AIX 5l cluster, while various other databases tended to be Oracle on Sparc. Rest was usually Solaris on either Sparc or x86 - if it was x86 machine, then it had Solaris, whether it was Sun x86 or non-Sun. 00:19:24 Do they exist for anything but japan's 4GL (5GL?) projects? 00:19:34 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@130.166.209.12] has quit [Quit: *vroom*] 00:19:58 pkhuong: They seem to have been the big supplier of non-Niagara Ultrasparcs for a while now 00:20:15 pkhuong: I think they sell mainly supercomputers and I think they supply cpus for hi-end SPARCs 00:20:39 Anything called Sparc64 is a Fujitsu chip 00:20:44 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.67.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:21:44 They have a giant one due out soon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPARC64_VI#SPARC64_VIIIfx 00:22:17 (that may possibly be a record for number of general purpose registers per core :) ) 00:24:58 -!- aidalgol [aidan@69.61.15.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:25:00 -!- saikat [~saikat@99.13.242.166] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:25:12 saikat [~saikat@99.13.242.166] has joined #lisp 00:25:20 rsynnott: ... not if someone manages to implement MMIX 1.0 in a chip and uses one of the suggested stack sizes... 00:25:36 aidalgol [aidan@69.61.15.114] has joined #lisp 00:26:11 which would make it 512 general purpose registers 00:26:38 *rsynnott* would be interested to see if Sun/Fujitsu's latter-day tendency of just throwing in more and more registers actually gave much of a performance boost 00:26:48 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 00:26:55 One advantage of windowing, anyway :) 00:27:03 p_l: do you know if any compiler has ever used SPARC's windows to have more GPRs (e.g. for loops)? 00:27:55 pkhuong: not sure, haven't played enough with sparcs. I could however play around with Sun's C/Fortran compiler if I got example code and see the assembly output. 00:29:01 I know it has aggressive optimization set 00:29:11 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:29:12 pkhuong: considerable risk of expensive spills unless you were TERRIBLY careful, surely? 00:29:18 software pipelining wouldn't work actually (it needs real rotation). 00:29:30 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:29:33 rsynnott: you could force spilling (if any) ahead of time. 00:29:49 I suppose it would be okay if you were aware how many registers the chip in question had 00:29:58 different sparcs have different counts 00:30:11 right. 00:35:49 Makes for an interesting optimisation problem, though, if a compiler did do it 00:36:15 Shaftoe [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096725400.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 00:36:25 if your loop calls a function, say, which might call another function, and so on, you probably want to leave space for that without causing a spill 00:36:43 but if the loop only _might_ call a function, but doesn't usually... 00:36:45 if your loop calls a function, it's probably not worth optimising to much. 00:37:03 is there a risk of exploit if I intern a user defined value - specificaly, use it as a tag in a property list 00:37:04 ? 00:37:07 rsynnott: another one that we'll never see is using both MMX and x87 instructions at the same time to treat the x87 stack as a register file. 00:37:25 Shaftoe: AFAIK interned things will never go away 00:37:46 so the user could presumably consume available memory by just interning lots of different values 00:37:50 pkhuong: well, I had seen mixed MMX/SSE/x87 code, but not sure about *that* usage. 00:38:03 rsynnott: really eh? That's an interesting thing. 00:38:26 so, to be clear, simply writing '(:asdf "value") will result in :asdf being interned, right? 00:38:38 p_l: it's not supported at all, and EMMS destroys all the state anyway. But it does work because of the obvious way to implement the x87/mmx pun. 00:38:43 interned symbols should be GC'd if the containing package is ever deleted 00:38:49 and yes, :asdf is an interned keyword 00:39:14 so, I have a potential DDOS attack vector if I use "user customizable tags" for HTML-Template. Anything else? 00:39:38 you can always use make-symbol to have an uninterned symbol 00:39:42 :asdf is already interned, though. 00:39:49 if you're using ASDF, that is. 00:40:20 although it's only eq'able by direct reference and copying around; if you have two #:foo's in your source code, they'll be independent, non-equal symbol instances 00:40:53 interesting. ... so that'd mean that nobody could actually find it, no? 00:41:18 i.e. (getf :foo ... ) would never return that 00:41:18 Shaftoe: unless they broke the abstraction provided by CL. 00:41:31 if you stored that uninterned symbol somewhere where you could find it later, you can reuse it. But you can't use the reader to instantiate new references to that older #:foo 00:41:37 or you store it somewhere so they can retrieve it otherwise 00:41:59 Phoodus: you can use #1=#:foo #1# 00:42:04 true 00:42:33 is this how it ought to work? (getf `( ,(make-symbol "TEST-123") 123) :TEST-123) 00:42:51 you can't use a _literal #:foo_ elsewhere in the reader to instantiate a new reference to an older #:foo 00:42:57 I see. 00:43:06 so I have to store the symbol itself. 00:43:11 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:43:14 :TEST-123 is a symbol interned in the keyword package 00:43:25 (make-symbol "TEST-123") is a symbol not interned in any package 00:43:49 I get it. So this won't work for ferrying data between two independent modules (e.g. my program and HTML-Template) 00:44:01 hmm. 00:44:12 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:44:23 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 00:44:24 so my alternative is to hook into the HTML-Template lookup code and modify that 00:44:31 you can always get the symbol-name of an uninterned symbol to look it up by name 00:44:54 fusss [~kumi@li63-187.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 00:44:56 but in that case, you might as well just use strings 00:45:11 Phoodus: if I'm going to jump through that hoop, I might as well just bypass the property list data transport of HTML-Template and use something else 00:45:20 yeah 00:45:22 since interning never garbage collects, it'd be useful to have a weak hashtable mapping strings to uninterned symbols, if you want GC-able symbols 00:45:52 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:46:20 or make a temporary package, intern symbols into it, then delete the package later on 00:46:46 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@wsip-72-215-168-118.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:46:47 I'll go with modifying html-template. 00:47:01 well, using its provided methods to do just this 00:47:06 alrighty. thanks folks 00:47:13 yeah, the symbol proplists are kind of iffy. I've only ever used them in very small utilities where i didn't want to bother with making storage structs and hashtables 00:47:28 yeah. they are 00:47:44 they also have a disadvantage of not being lazy-evaluatable 00:47:46 and in small utilities, the program doesn't have a long lifetime, so the plists never get crufted up 00:49:02 -!- Shaftoe [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096725400.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Shaftoe] 00:54:09 Harag [~Harag@41.56.9.139] has joined #lisp 00:56:48 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 00:56:56 -!- aidalgol [aidan@69.61.15.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:59:21 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:00:23 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:00:37 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 01:04:36 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:07:48 -!- _rata_ [~929bd90b@gateway/web/freenode/x-ffjmkukgwnaggudo] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:09:04 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 01:09:13 potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f66478b-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 01:10:25 pers` [~user@p5B34D261.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:11:15 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:12:05 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:13:51 -!- pers [~user@p5B34C37A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:24:57 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:24:58 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 01:25:25 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 01:26:49 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 01:29:19 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.72.9] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:29:38 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 01:29:38 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.72.9] has joined #lisp 01:32:01 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@64.134.149.41] has joined #lisp 01:32:33 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:36:01 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.222.203] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 01:37:59 -!- Harag [~Harag@41.56.9.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:40:30 aidalgol [aidan@69.61.15.114] has joined #lisp 01:42:33 dunkyp_ [~dunkyp@188-223-2-193.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 01:43:36 -!- nurv [nurv@83.231.21.185] has quit [] 01:45:01 -!- dunkyp [~dunkyp@188-223-2-193.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:45:23 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0090-205-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 01:46:54 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 01:48:11 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:51:10 general comp sci question... given a directed graph, is it possible to find a list of shortest paths to all connected nodes right _before_ B, if your path is A, B? 01:51:43 to find it in reasonable time/space, I mean. 01:52:38 sykopomp: I don't understand the question. 01:54:15 pkhuong: I have a directed graph. I have a desired path A -> B. Given all possible unique paths from A->B, take the node from each of those paths that has the final edge to B, and then find all shortest paths from A to those nodes. 01:54:31 so if A->x->y->B, I want y, and all those similar to y. 01:55:00 and then the shortest path from A to y, and all those similar to y. 01:55:34 So you want all the shortest paths from A to an ancestor of B? 01:55:36 ... someone is writing an SBCL Compiler Internals book? 01:55:43 p_l: yes. 01:56:02 just encountered it through twitter 01:56:31 p_l: I thought you were going to resist 01:56:35 pkhuong: yup. 01:56:35 p_l: Is that what Lisp Outside the Box has become? ;) 01:56:57 Guthur: #ashcloud 01:57:16 sellout: afaik not 01:57:19 pkhuong: well, all shortest paths from A to all _connected_ ancestors of B. 01:57:19 sykopomp: sure, just run dijkstra until all the ancestors have been reached (or your set is empty). 01:57:25 -!- bytecolor [~user@adsl-70-136-248-12.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 01:57:38 oh 01:57:48 shortest path and all shortest paths are theoretically exactly as hard. 01:58:04 Guthur: also, I was sort of getting into lisp PR, so I made a kind of monitoring system on lisp-related tweets... 01:58:24 pkhuong: is this NP, then? 01:58:26 larry65 [~larry65@d122-105-198-226.adl8.sa.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 01:58:40 no... 01:58:55 Well, it's *in* NP, it's just not NP-complete 01:59:58 thank you :) 02:00:27 illuminati1113 [~user@pool-74-96-222-179.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:01:15 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:04:38 -!- dys [~andreas@krlh-5f737ff2.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:05:04 dys [~andreas@krlh-5f735898.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 02:07:03 -!- fatblueduck [~duck@pool-71-104-235-97.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:07:22 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 02:11:01 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-71-232-16-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 02:13:04 -!- scottj [foobar@174-21-106-184.tukw.qwest.net] has left #lisp 02:15:13 cxml gurus, i have value where bar and bar are optional, and i just want to zoom on value and extract it. how? 02:15:49 bytecolor [~user@adsl-70-136-248-12.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:17:23 use xpath. "/foo//baz" and then something, no? 02:17:32 minion: plexippus-stp 02:17:33 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``plexippus-stp''. 02:17:35 minion: plexippus 02:17:35 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``plexippus''. 02:17:55 ah, plexippus-xpath (: 02:19:18 I guess one could as well use STP or similar and filter on then extract only value cell 02:19:20 pkhuong: so far a nasty nesting of if-let and dom:first-child is doing the trick 02:19:42 stream xml parsers are for sissies 02:19:58 *fusss* is hacking on a box with 16GB ram 02:20:20 so am i. This is orthogonal to SAXness. In fact, it's based on a DOM-style representation. 02:20:21 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:21:59 btw, how can i use the "it" variable in loop in a finally clause? 02:22:50 (loop for member in members collecting (cons (name member) (id member)) finally (alist-hash-table it)) 02:23:08 i want to refer to the collected value by name 02:23:29 collect into 02:25:37 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:26:39 (loop for x from 1 to 10 collect x into y finally (reverse y))? 02:26:53 -!- myu2 [~myu2@w179122.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 02:27:40 finally (return (return y)) 02:27:42 yeap! cheers stassats ! 02:27:49 s/second return/reverse/ 02:28:38 fusss: I went for STP because it was simply *easy* 02:28:54 I never got SAX, actually 02:30:21 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:31:40 Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:32:50 Why not count backward? 02:34:38 myu2 [~myu2@w179122.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 02:38:15 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:39:05 Zhivago: because i am not counting 02:40:46 So, what's that for loop doing? 02:41:00 -!- smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:43:36 -!- larry65 [~larry65@d122-105-198-226.adl8.sa.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:43:52 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:48:30 Zhivago: constructing a hash-table from xml-rpc response 02:48:55 -!- MetalDust is now known as MetalDust_zzflop 02:48:57 My point was rather than reversing you might just generate backward. 02:49:00 given a method name, constructs a hashtable from the method's response 02:49:09 there is no reversing 02:49:20 fusss: btw, stp is more like DOM than SAX, at least according to tutorial. I simply loved it for applicative-style looping :) 02:49:24 (defun make-drupal-get-provider (dom) 02:49:25 (when-let (members (wsdl-elements dom "member")) 02:49:25 (alist-hash-table 02:49:25 (loop for member in members 02:49:25 collecting 02:49:27 (let ((name (dom:node-value (dom:first-child (wsdl-element member "name")))) 02:49:29 (value (dom:node-value (dom:first-child (dom:first-child (wsdl-element member "value")))))) 02:49:33 (cons name value))) 02:49:34 Surely to count backwards you would need to iterate forward first to get the length, it being a list 02:49:35 :test #'equalp))) 02:49:38 sorry 02:49:50 Not if you're counting from 1 to 10 as in the earlier example. 02:50:02 Guthur: downto 02:50:30 (loop for x from 10 downto 0 collecting x) 02:50:56 Oh I was looking at the member in members one 02:51:18 no reversing needed in members; they're made into a hash-table 02:51:21 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:51:37 (loop for x to 10 collect (- 10 x)) is shorter! 02:51:40 Sorry I didn't read the backlog carefully enough 02:53:35 seangrove [~user@70-36-146-156.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 02:58:55 -!- saikat [~saikat@99.13.242.166] has quit [Quit: saikat] 02:58:55 -!- dunkyp_ [~dunkyp@188-223-2-193.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:59:09 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:00:04 dys` [~andreas@krlh-5f7367b4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 03:02:29 -!- dys [~andreas@krlh-5f735898.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:03:12 (with-results ((user-id "UserId")(password "Password")) object (list user-id password)) 03:03:30 does that look like a nice syntax for wrapping gethash? 03:04:01 such that user-id is bound to (gethash "UserId" object) 03:04:01 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:05:49 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 03:06:49 -!- tmh [~user@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 03:06:55 -!- Guthur [~Michael@host213-122-221-177.range213-122.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Computer says no] 03:07:27 -!- myu2 [~myu2@w179122.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:07:55 -!- seangrove [~user@70-36-146-156.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:10:45 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 03:13:59 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 03:20:18 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-14-13.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 03:22:06 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-10-218.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:24:35 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.56.149.138] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:28:31 Good morning! 03:28:43 beach: morning 03:29:31 hi 03:30:26 what is meant by "...reader binds *PACKAGE* to the KEYWORD package" when discussing conditionals at read-time? 03:30:42 is that the keyword argument :package? 03:30:53 (let ((*package* (find-package :keyword))) (read ....)) 03:30:53 the notation suggests that this is a function 03:30:57 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 03:31:14 keyword is a special package 03:31:17 clhs keyword 03:31:17 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/t_kwd.htm 03:31:18 oh okay 03:31:21 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-141-157-238-16.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:31:27 I see 03:31:28 saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:31:45 Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-141-157-238-16.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:32:00 *p_l* wishes airplanes would have powersockets for laptops. 03:32:14 assuming I'll get to fly today. 03:32:35 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-mbvjlihooixmatdd] has joined #lisp 03:32:36 :symbol is a shorthand notation for keyword::symbol, it's useful because :symbol will be the same in all packages 03:33:21 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:33:35 Harag [~Harag@41.56.18.62] has joined #lisp 03:33:52 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 03:34:32 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:34:33 okay 03:34:46 so keyword is like a metapackage for all symbols 03:35:01 wolgo: Not quite, no. 03:35:03 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 03:35:31 it's like an ordinary package, and only for some symbols 03:35:32 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-mbvjlihooixmatdd] has left #lisp 03:35:43 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:35:53 okay 03:36:02 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 03:36:14 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 03:36:46 its symbols are used for identity, so that :foo in one package will be the same as :foo read in another package 03:36:54 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:37:26 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:41:31 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 03:44:36 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:45:45 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:51:24 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:52:48 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:53:35 -!- huangjs [~user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has left #lisp 03:58:47 smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:59:00 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.199] has joined #lisp 04:00:21 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:01:43 stassats: does s-xml-rpc create lisp objects from xmlrpc responses, or is all just lists? 04:04:07 hybrid_mind [~hybrid_mi@unaffiliated/hybrid-mind/x-023851] has joined #lisp 04:06:44 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@64.134.149.41] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 04:07:25 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 04:07:25 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 04:09:20 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 04:09:48 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Client Quit] 04:22:05 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:22:53 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 04:22:53 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 04:23:07 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-22-147.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:27:01 fusss: just lists 04:27:08 or maybe i'm just using it that way 04:30:24 stassats: (alist-hash-table (mapcar #'nconc (remove-if #'keywordp (flatten result)))) 04:30:44 for my needs, that pretty much converts the messy lists to "objects" ;-) 04:32:34 segmond [~seg@99.59.64.210] has joined #lisp 04:34:06 ysph [~user@75-143-70-52.dhcp.aubn.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 04:36:50 -!- brookeGarcia [~brookeGar@dsl-153-156.aei.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:37:07 -!- hybrid_mind [~hybrid_mi@unaffiliated/hybrid-mind/x-023851] has quit [Quit: hybrid_mind] 04:37:11 -!- mizai [~matthew@164.107.202.12] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:39:59 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-22-147.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:40:16 fusss: perhaps delete-if would be better 04:45:22 derefed [~derefed@cpe-74-65-181-129.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:45:47 -!- ysph [~user@75-143-70-52.dhcp.aubn.al.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:45:47 nunb [~nundan@122.162.138.14] has joined #lisp 04:46:35 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:47:53 Is there a (clean) way to have two methods with the same name that each specialize their first parameter on different classes, but otherwise have different numbers of parameters? 04:48:38 number of required and optional parameters must be the same 04:48:55 &key may be different 04:49:09 hmm 04:50:18 perhaps I could use defgeneric then to have a number of optional parameters equal to the length of the longest parameter list 04:50:28 derefed: Do these methods have the same fundamental semantics? 04:50:39 seem unclean though 04:50:52 Zhivago: well, sort of 04:51:11 having different number of parameters seems unclean 04:51:12 each is adding an object into the list held by another object 04:51:32 derefed: Sounds like you're uncertain of that. 04:51:36 but the "container" objects each require different parameters for the add 04:51:44 derefed: If the semantics differ, use a different generic function. 04:52:04 yeah, one class is my code, the other is legacy code 04:53:17 What does the class have to do with it? 04:53:37 Think about the generic function. 04:53:47 well, the class and its accompanying methods, I guess is what I mean 04:54:02 -!- hagabaka [~quassel@unaffiliated/hagabaka] has left #lisp 04:54:08 You are thinking backward. 04:54:12 heh 04:54:19 Classes do not have accompanying methods. 04:54:25 Generic Functions have Methods. 04:54:29 Classes have Slots. 04:54:30 it's written kinda like java oo, I guess that's where the problem is 04:54:48 Think about the generic function's semantics. Maybe it makes more sense to make another gf. 04:55:06 hmm 04:57:09 so I should instead regard the classes as merely holding data, with no coupling to the methods, correct? 04:57:35 Pretty much. 04:57:44 makes sense 04:58:03 Sorry, s/methods/gfs/ 04:58:12 freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 04:58:20 Methods relate gfs to classes. 04:58:38 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 04:58:44 kngspook [~alpha@unaffiliated/alpha] has joined #lisp 04:58:56 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has joined #lisp 04:59:44 thanks for the insight... I'll see what I can do to rework this code 04:59:52 Good luck. 05:00:09 Just try to keep each generic function having a coherent set of semantics. 05:00:17 Off-topic, but on a scale of 1-10, how useful have you found discrete math? 05:00:24 *derefed* nods 05:00:34 10 =) 05:00:56 Not as useful as indiscrete math. 05:01:18 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-22-147.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:01:28 kngspook: are you taking a course in it right now? 05:02:14 derefed: yes...and I can't tell whether the subject sucks or just the prof... 05:02:19 haha 05:02:26 I remember thinking the same back when I took it 05:02:39 but over time I came to really enjoy that formal stuff 05:03:01 Some stuff was, cool...combinatorics, looking forward to graphs... But the question I'm dealing with right now...not so cool. 05:03:20 what is the question about? 05:03:57 Given: f(0) != 0, f(1) = 3, f(x) * f(y) = f(x+y) + f(x-y) ; Find: f(7) 05:04:21 (for all integers x and y) 05:04:26 hmm 05:05:11 *derefed* pulls out a sheet of paper to take a crack at it 05:05:55 Heh, let me know if you get anything. 05:06:38 I found an answer that sort of works...I think. 05:07:04 pers`` [~user@p5DC726F6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:07:09 Zhivago? is the Zhivago from eons years ago? :-O 05:08:18 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 05:09:21 segmond: yes, at least circa 2003 05:09:42 -!- pers` [~user@p5B34D261.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:09:43 I don't think that qualifies as an aeon. 05:10:23 from a book by Pasternak 05:10:34 -!- CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:10:54 well, I can't recall the last time I was on IRC, yeah, but it's probably been around 2003 2002, in internet time, it might as well count. lol 05:11:04 My favourite Jews are dead Jews on trams. 05:11:17 after 15yrs, I finally decide it's time to learn lisp. :-( 05:11:58 -!- pinterface [~pinterfac@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has left #lisp 05:13:27 Zhivago: what was that for? 05:13:38 Ah, literacy ... 05:13:48 beach` [~user@ABordeaux-158-1-77-198.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 05:15:18 balooga [~00u4440@adsl-99-131-62-220.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:15:54 kngspook: that is a tough one for sure 05:16:53 derefed: I have code that automates the testing of a formula, if that helps... 05:18:08 I should probably get back to my own homework ;) but I'd like to give it another shot when I get some time 05:18:09 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 05:18:12 what did you come up with? 05:18:20 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-158-1-35-101.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:19:36 I have a list of objects with a slot value I need to compare -- to get the object with the minimum value. Does reduce work for this case? 05:20:33 derefed: f(x) = ((abs(x)%2)+2) seems to be the one with the least failures I've found so far. 05:20:37 So far I have: (reduce #'local-time::timestamp-minimum * :key (f_ (get-value _ 'date-it-starts))) 05:21:00 But that just returns the minimum timestamp, not the object with the minimum timestamp. I guess I need the inverse of :key ? 05:21:47 -!- spoofy [~spoof@78.31.74.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:21:53 err`` [~user@lawn-143-215-206-57.lawn.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 05:22:05 derefed: Oh, there's one more hint, but it's hidden later on in the question -- the function is an even function, with f(n) = f(-n); that's why I threw in the abs(). 05:22:32 -!- beach` is now known as beach 05:23:30 (loop for y from 0 to 10 do (format t "f(~a) = ~a~%" y `(/ (+ (f (+ 3 ,y)) (f (- 3 ,y))) 3))) 05:23:45 nunb: (reduce (lambda (x y) (if (local-time:timestamp> (get-value x) (get-value y)) x y)) list) 05:24:10 fatblueduck [~chris@pool-71-104-235-97.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:24:15 kngspook, derefed: take the case when y=0 as a basis 05:24:59 -!- err` [~user@lawn-143-215-206-57.lawn.gatech.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:26:42 Makoryu` [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:26:46 newb q ... i've read comments on the net that one can code against a 'live image' in lisp. i'm googling very little on this topic, probably because i don't know what i should be searching for 05:26:58 any tips on understanding what this might mean in the lisp world? 05:27:19 -!- Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:27:25 holycow: running hunchnetoot, for example, under slime and GNU scren 05:27:25 you have a lisp running, you define new functions in it, without restarting 05:27:26 kngspook: ah 05:27:37 GNU screen 05:27:56 holycow: you can evalute new forms that add more functionality to your site without restart 05:28:01 so basically an sbcl shell is what they are talking about 05:28:09 holycow: yes 05:28:11 k. 05:28:19 fusss: but when y=0, f(y) = f(0) != 0 which doesn't give you much to go on 05:28:29 danke 05:28:30 oh wait 05:28:33 the abs thing 05:28:45 wait isn't that contradictory then? 05:30:24 spoofy [~spoof@78.31.74.25] has joined #lisp 05:30:32 sorry, my mistake 05:31:11 jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 05:35:44 fusss: did you get an answer? 05:37:39 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:38:43 -!- zorn [~jz@206-248-152-69.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:38:43 derefed, kngspook: no answer, busy at work atm 05:39:45 fusss: just curious; I've moved on to other questions, for want of time, unfortunately 05:39:49 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:40:25 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 05:41:25 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:44:50 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:45:07 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 05:45:42 enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-245-60-142.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:45:44 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:46:28 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 05:47:08 -!- Dodek [dodek@wikipedia/Dodek] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:47:14 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:47:33 Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-208-207.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:50:04 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.67.118] has joined #lisp 05:50:33 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:52:43 setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:54:36 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 05:54:58 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:55:40 stassats: thanks. so there is no "inverse" for :key and I have to fold it into my reducer function. 05:56:12 what's "inverse" for :key? yek:? 05:57:31 grrrr 05:57:41 :-) I meant I wonder if one could specify that :key was to be used for the comparison fn., but that the value of the item in the list should be returned in the reduce (as it would be for mapcar, for example) 05:57:57 is it possible to get the text of a compiled function? fdefinition doesn't in ccl 05:58:08 M-. 05:58:22 no, i renamed it and rewrote the text heavily 05:58:31 a compiled version of it still lingers around 06:01:14 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.67.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:02:50 fusss: try (map 'string #'code-char (ccl::source-note-source (cadar (ccl:find-definition-sources #'test)))) 06:03:31 :-O 06:03:43 stassats: sorry, mapcar doesn't have that feature, but remove-if-not does. Eg (remove-if-not (f_ (local-time::timestamp<= _ 06:03:43 (nunb-make-local-time-now))) ** :key (f_ (get-info _ 'suspension-date-it-starts))) 06:04:01 fusss: does it work? 06:04:08 stassats: yes 06:05:16 stassats: i am very terrified of you right now 06:05:19 *nunb* thinks getting the text of a compiled function is pretty cool 06:05:27 how long did it take you to get that much clozure-fu? 06:06:03 M-., slime-inspector, couple if minutes 06:06:42 well, and fuzzy completion 06:07:10 http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aJXdCOdgJmw4 06:07:11 (ccl:source-note-text (cadar (ccl:find-definition-sources #'test))) would be better 06:07:13 notsonerdysunny [~chatzilla@121.243.182.185] has joined #lisp 06:07:25 johnzorn [~jz@206-248-152-28.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 06:08:44 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 06:09:15 CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 06:11:38 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c-50b6e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:15:26 attila_lendvai [~ati@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 06:17:48 fiveop [~fiveop@g229080063.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 06:19:12 stassats: where did you start with M-. on that one? Trying to do the same for sbcl 06:19:25 Resbaloso [~Resbaloso@189.220.21.241.cable.dyn.cableonline.com.mx] has joined #lisp 06:19:30 It is time to put those Haitian jigaboos in their place! No matter how many times the civilized world donates money, opens schools, rebuilds their nation, and holds their little monkey paws, the damn niggers can never get it right. Mexicali had a worse earthquake than Haiti, and only about 4 people died! Even the housing of the poor generally held up! Meanwhile even the Haitian elites couldn't build d 06:19:30 ecent buildings. Look at what happened to the house of their monkey president! If you are sick of the fecal beast Join Chimpout Forum! 06:20:04 i just did (ccl:find-definition-sources #'test), and saw that it prints a part of the source, so i figured it should contain it somewhere 06:20:21 so i inspected it, etc. 06:20:43 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-tjkgqcvaseykvksw] has joined #lisp 06:21:05 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.66.142] has joined #lisp 06:21:10 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:21:14 stassats: how did you know of ccl:f-d-s .. so far for sbcl I am looking at sb-assem::find-method 06:21:38 dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:22:03 i knew it from slime 06:22:23 hm. 06:22:23 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:22:37 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 06:23:08 sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has joined #lisp 06:24:38 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-22-147.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:24:42 (getf (sb-introspect:definition-source-plist (car (sb-introspect:find-definition-sources-by-name 'test :function))) :emacs-string) 06:24:51 but that only works if it was defined from slime 06:24:59 with C-c C-c 06:26:36 -!- Resbaloso [~Resbaloso@189.220.21.241.cable.dyn.cableonline.com.mx] has quit [K-Lined] 06:27:48 cool. I got as far as sb-introspect::find- :-) 06:27:54 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:28:33 -!- ThomasI [~thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit [Quit: Bye Bye!] 06:28:48 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 06:30:04 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Quit: Off to work] 06:30:09 -!- fatblueduck [~chris@pool-71-104-235-97.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 06:30:13 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.66.142] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:32:12 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:33:42 -!- lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@200.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:39:14 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 06:41:35 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:42:21 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:43:31 good morning 06:44:23 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 06:46:05 dabr [~dabr@62-2-164-173.static.cablecom.ch] has joined #lisp 06:47:48 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:48:55 ASau` [~user@77.246.230.187] has joined #lisp 06:48:56 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:49:33 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 06:50:38 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0090-205-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:51:16 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 06:52:13 lnostdal [~lnostdal@200.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 06:56:32 -!- segmond [~seg@99.59.64.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:57:38 -!- dys` is now known as dys 06:58:37 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:59:13 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:00:37 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@200.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: bah] 07:00:58 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has joined #lisp 07:01:38 lnostdal [~lnostdal@200.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 07:02:37 -!- Makoryu` [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 07:06:09 fuck, i wrote soap and xml-rpc clients for 6 services :-/ 07:06:19 and still have 2 more to do 07:06:45 -!- notsonerdysunny [~chatzilla@121.243.182.185] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:06:58 i feel like a human cffi-grovel 07:07:42 -!- jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit [Quit: Boot me gently] 07:08:46 -!- lukjad86 [~lukjadOO7@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:08:49 -!- nunb [~nundan@122.162.138.14] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:09:52 j4K0b [~j4k0bk@93.160.119.14] has joined #lisp 07:12:48 -!- dys [~andreas@krlh-5f7367b4.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:20:09 ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has joined #lisp 07:20:59 freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 07:22:32 Soulman [~kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 07:23:26 erg [~erg@li13-154.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 07:23:30 http://memegenerator.net/Badass-Boy-Scout/ImageMacro/929558/Badass-Boy-Scout-Lisp-the-programmable-programming-language 07:24:09 -!- frodef [~frode@shevek.netfonds.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:24:32 jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 07:27:45 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 07:28:49 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:29:07 frodef [~frode@shevek.netfonds.no] has joined #lisp 07:29:44 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-52.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:31:30 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:32:48 nunb [~nundan@122.162.138.14] has joined #lisp 07:35:12 jbirdium_ [~chatzilla@pool-98-114-33-48.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:35:22 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-135-10.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: night] 07:35:38 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-9-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:36:09 -!- jbirdium [~chatzilla@pool-98-114-33-48.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:36:21 -!- jbirdium_ is now known as jbirdium 07:39:03 -!- pers`` [~user@p5DC726F6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:42:05 "With due respect to your person,I PAUL GRAHAM kindly wish to ask for your attention and consideration just for a while. I know this is certainly not the appropriate channel to contact you but situation necessitated me to do this. However,I am sincerely sorry for any inconveniences this may cause you. I am a senior staff of a bank here in LONDON, and I have a business proposal which will benefit you and i if it is properly executed." 07:43:17 -!- potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f66478b-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [] 07:44:43 now i see how he became a millionaire 07:45:57 hah good one 07:45:59 and his biggest scam so far seems to be Yahoo 07:47:57 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 07:48:13 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@g229080063.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 07:49:21 bet arc is big in nigeria. 07:49:34 jdz: that's just mean spirited 07:50:17 fusss: yes, for people who don't have any sense of humour it might be 07:50:39 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:53:03 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 07:53:11 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:53:24 -!- quodlibetor [~user@ool-45723726.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:57:19 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:58:49 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:59:16 X-02 [~schopenha@p2231-ipbf204kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:00:49 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 08:03:20 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:04:53 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:05:35 -!- bdowning [~bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has quit [Quit: Disconnecting from stoned server.] 08:05:51 levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 08:05:51 -!- kuwabara [~kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:06:00 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-245-60-142.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 08:06:31 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 08:07:51 bdowning [~bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has joined #lisp 08:08:33 fiveop [~fiveop@dfn189.rz.tu-ilmenau.de] has joined #lisp 08:09:09 So how do you shadow cl symbols in a package? I have a fn named position which I want to export. 08:10:06 (depackage your-package (:use :cl) (:shadow list) (:export list) 08:10:17 ) 08:10:58 stassats: hrm I tried exactly that earlier... 08:11:16 exactly? i have a typo in deFpackage 08:11:18 oh, I think I added :cl to the shadow clause 08:11:35 heh 08:11:46 kuwabara [~kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.eu] has joined #lisp 08:12:32 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 08:12:57 Dodek [dodek@wikipedia/Dodek] has joined #lisp 08:13:14 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:13:32 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 08:14:37 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 08:15:44 well aaaaalrighty, thanks 08:19:46 -!- gruseom [~daniel@S0106001217057777.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:20:24 folks, a comic book about lisp looks very interesting ;) Any idea how the cartoon figures are drawn? 08:20:28 for example: http://lambda.bugyo.tk/cdr/mwl01/mwl01.html 08:20:59 in MS Paint? 08:21:52 that simple? 08:22:12 It seems likely. 08:22:33 <_3b> not like it maters for that style 08:23:12 <_3b> though something with layers would probably be a bit more convenient 08:23:18 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:23:21 so gimp 08:23:59 any program, but tablet is essential i think 08:24:00 <_3b> or it could be some vector program 08:24:17 i see 08:24:26 jdz: I was thinking table too. 08:24:29 tablet 08:24:46 table is essential too! 08:24:47 i think using comic book to present technical document is really cool. 08:24:55 stassats: :D 08:25:10 leo2007: http://www.lisperati.com/casting.html seen this too? 08:25:23 yeah, yesterday. 08:25:49 <_3b> nah, don't need a table, just get a cintiq or ipad or something you can carry around :p 08:26:22 rootzlevel [~user@91-66-191-155-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:26:49 iPadlet 08:29:39 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:33:38 -!- kngspook [~alpha@unaffiliated/alpha] has quit [Quit: kngspook] 08:34:28 abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 08:36:37 How do I show all bindings in the current package? 08:36:54 bindings? 08:37:15 (debugger invoked on a UNBOUND-VARIABLE in thread #: The variable RECIPE-TABLE-VIEW is unbound. 08:37:19 -- the thing that that variable isn't. :) 08:37:53 if the variable is unbound it means it's... not bound 08:38:16 Right. Can I get a list of all the variables that *do* exist? 08:38:30 (that are bound) 08:38:38 (in a given package) 08:38:40 rlpowell: if you bind a variable in a LET form, it is bound in the lexical scope of that LET form, but you can't see the binding by inspecting package 08:38:49 rlpowell: variables and symbols are distinct concepts 08:38:55 rlpowell: In general, or at some specific point in time? 08:39:05 then there are special variables... 08:39:08 In the running REPL right now. 08:39:14 Just for poking around/debugging purposes. 08:39:14 in general: C-c I (find-package :foo) -> present symbols -> group by classification 08:39:34 I don't use SLIME. 08:39:35 otherwise you have to do it explicitly using do-symbols, and boundp 08:39:46 That's what I wanted; thanks. 08:39:56 apropos can be used for that too 08:42:20 Great. 08:43:49 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:44:59 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:45:41 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:45:45 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440484.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:46:06 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-141-157-238-16.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:48:28 -!- fusss [~kumi@li63-187.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:49:51 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279632868.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 08:54:15 potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f6651b7-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 08:58:06 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:58:33 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 08:58:41 Yuuhi [benni@p5483AEE9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:58:48 Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-68-237-97-217.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:01:02 -!- dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:04:18 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ftwsnojkcygogabx] has joined #lisp 09:06:03 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-189-117.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:06:26 dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:06:47 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.72.9] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:12:28 vtl [~user@nat/redhat/x-olttkemfmypzinpc] has joined #lisp 09:15:55 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:18:22 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:23:18 mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has joined #lisp 09:23:50 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has quit [Client Quit] 09:24:46 mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has joined #lisp 09:25:03 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 09:26:53 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has quit [Client Quit] 09:27:20 mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has joined #lisp 09:27:37 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@200.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:27:46 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has quit [Client Quit] 09:28:04 mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has joined #lisp 09:30:20 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has quit [Client Quit] 09:30:39 mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has joined #lisp 09:32:58 OK, I really tried this time, but I give up: how do I get the docstring for a class's slot from the REPL? 09:33:05 (SBCL, if it matters) 09:34:36 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:34:41 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has quit [Client Quit] 09:34:59 mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has joined #lisp 09:35:00 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 09:35:48 lukjad007 [~lukjadOO7@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has joined #lisp 09:36:59 freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 09:37:09 rlpowell: get hold of the slot definition metaobject, and call (documentation t) 09:37:34 Heh. it's the first part that is the hard bit, I think. But I *just* found http://common-lisp.net/project/moptilities/documentation/metabang.moptilities-package/generic-efunction-get--slot--definition.html 09:38:35 (documentation (find 'slot (sb-mop:class-slots (find-class 'foo)) :key #'sb-mop:slot-definition-name) t) 09:41:29 lnostdal [~lnostdal@200.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 09:42:59 stassats: A totally different way! :) Thanks. 09:43:10 it is? 09:43:15 Then what I found, yes. 09:43:27 (loop for i in (moptilities:slot-names (find-class 'weblocks:datalist)) do (print i) (print (documentation (moptilities:get-slot-definition (find-class 'weblocks:datalist) i) 't))) 09:44:05 what do you think moptilities:get-slot-definition is doing? 09:44:45 I haven't the foggiest, but I guess you're saying it's doing what you showed me. 09:45:21 that's what i'm saying indeed 09:45:22 splittist [~bc3ef51e@gateway/web/freenode/x-ggamgihyzezdcgdb] has joined #lisp 09:45:30 morning 09:46:49 Beetny` [~Beetny@ppp118-208-189-117.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:47:02 billitch [~billitch@2a01:e35:8b7c:5ce0:211:24ff:fe99:ffc3] has joined #lisp 09:47:18 rlpowell: (dolist (slot (sb-mop:class-slots (find-class 'weblocks:datalist))) (print (sb-mop:slot-definition-name slot)) (print (documentation slot t)) (terpri)) 09:48:52 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:49:14 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-189-117.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:50:15 -!- lukjad007 is now known as lukjad86 09:51:26 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 09:52:42 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:54:06 In git, can I retrospectively specify which files I moved? 09:55:05 there are no files :) 09:55:15 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:55:16 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:55:55 tcr: or do you mean change the commit message? 09:56:21 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 09:56:23 tcr: I think that instead you get to specify --find-moves-harder when you introspect your repository 09:56:23 no I moved files without using git mv 09:56:40 it now reports the files as deleted, and new ones to be added 09:56:51 tcr: as far as i remember git mv does not do anything special 09:56:54 kwinz3 [~kwinz@213162066163.public.t-mobile.at] has joined #lisp 09:57:11 tcr: that's what you would get with git mv, too 09:57:37 doesn't git report moves by similarity of files? 09:57:50 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 09:57:58 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-83-2.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 09:58:50 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:59:22 mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has joined #lisp 10:00:31 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-078-042-205-245.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 10:00:59 tcr: you can also do a little experiment: git stash, git checkout -b test, git mv , git status 10:01:25 Xantoz [~hejhej@c-34b7e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 10:02:19 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:02:26 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:04:00 udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-zxofbykcirqqafwz] has joined #lisp 10:04:08 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:04:51 Krystof [~csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:05:03 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 10:09:02 -!- smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:10:05 -!- billitch [~billitch@2a01:e35:8b7c:5ce0:211:24ff:fe99:ffc3] has quit [Quit: billitch] 10:11:41 seems like renames are only tracked if the moved file is not modified? 10:11:55 -!- dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:12:03 renames aren't tracked at all, I believe 10:12:39 they are, I've seen it, but the content must be the same 10:12:50 still, how... lame :-) 10:13:01 no, renames aren't tracked at all 10:13:06 content is tracked 10:13:10 instead, there are heuristics for following file content 10:13:33 as I said somewhere up ^ there, there are special flags for being more aggressive about finding similar content and displaying that as moves 10:14:12 I can't remember what the magic flags are nor on what commands they apply 10:14:38 I tried it on status, but it didn't work :-) I already made up my mind not to care 10:15:52 maybe I'm misremembering about the flag 10:15:59 at least I think I can not be pointed to and yelled at for being too stupid :-) 10:16:22 NNshag [user@lns-bzn-27-82-248-3-36.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 10:16:44 debiandebian [~chatzilla@ntszok008047.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:16:50 and the commit will contain some cool stuff, so I shall be forgiven 10:16:54 http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/217 10:17:30 try "git diff -M" maybe? 10:17:46 also, 10:17:48 -C 10:17:48 Detect copies as well as renames. See also --find-copies-harder. 10:17:56 so I wasn't quite so wrong about the kind of flag name 10:19:42 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-44-82-249-221-131.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:23:13 seems like I botched this tree too aggressively 10:25:43 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:26:36 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 10:28:10 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@213162066163.public.t-mobile.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:30:59 -!- randa [~randa@94.99.50.84.sta.estpak.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:40:19 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:40:21 freiksenet1 [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 10:41:31 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:41:56 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [] 10:42:02 Elench 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joined #lisp 12:29:24 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 12:29:24 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:29:35 hi all 12:32:03 I get this error trying to connect to swank-server in emacs :- * fatal error encountered in SBCL pid 10157(tid 3085183696): 12:32:04 maximum interrupt nesting depth (32) exceeded . 12:32:04 12:32:12 Any help is appreciated 12:33:00 -!- Beetny` [~Beetny@ppp118-208-189-117.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:34:21 emacs version, platform? do you have the latest slime tar? 12:34:32 mbd: do you start it with M-x slime? 12:35:06 yes .. m-x slime-connect 12:35:23 and then defaults localhost and 4005 port#? 12:35:33 how are you starting up sbcl? 12:36:18 kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-52.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 12:36:27 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:36:59 I run sbcl in shell my .sbclrc file execute swank listening on port 4005 fine 12:38:02 connecting emacs to swank/sbcl is the problem. I have the same swank and slime version 12:38:49 I am suspecting it is a sbcl problem, but i am not too sure. 12:38:49 mbd: does starting SBCL from emacs work (i.e., without the remote stuff)? 12:39:15 oh yes 12:40:22 Is it on a remote machine? 12:40:38 Are you sure you can connect to the port ok? 12:40:43 Guthur: no locally 12:41:25 do you have :coding-system set? Eg: 12:41:26 (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op 'swank) ;;; Slime 12:41:26 (defun start-swank (port) 12:41:26 (swank:create-server :port port :dont-close t :coding-system "utf-8-unix") 12:41:26 (setf swank:*use-dedicated-output-stream* nil)) 12:41:27 (start-swank 4005) 12:41:54 You could a -> netstat -anp | grep sbcl 12:41:59 just to double check 12:42:12 that its open on the port 12:42:17 how about grepping the sbcl sources to find the place that message is printed, and then trying to reason from bottom-up? 12:43:08 Which version of sbcl, and on which platform? 12:43:32 -!- nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:43:48 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 12:45:08 nunb: SBCL 1.0.11 on ubuntu 12:45:27 That's quite an old version 12:45:37 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 12:45:51 -!- vtl [~user@nat/redhat/x-lrcmbeuwejcpbxdi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:45:55 Guthur: thats what I am suspecting 12:46:42 Over two years old going on monthly updates 12:48:16 -!- Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:48:22 vtl [~user@nat/redhat/x-dyqltqzijiddcsat] has joined #lisp 12:48:29 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:48:47 Guthur: I did try a new version but I am not clear on doing a new compile from scratch. I ran into compile problems occassionally. 12:48:58 Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has joined #lisp 12:49:00 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 12:49:17 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:49:22 mbd: in many cases you can get a precompiled binary from www.sbcl.org 12:49:40 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:50:11 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 12:50:17 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:50:51 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:51:02 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 12:51:22 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has joined #lisp 12:52:02 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:5ab0:35ff:fe78:6749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:52:33 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:53:48 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:54:48 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Client Quit] 13:00:51 carlocci [~nes@93.37.194.244] has joined #lisp 13:05:23 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:05:27 -!- Harag [~Harag@41.56.18.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:06:10 Guthur: tcp 0 0 127.0.0.1:4005 0.0.0.0:* LISTEN 11001/sbcl 13:07:40 You should give the latest binary a go 13:08:38 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 13:09:24 quotemstr [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:09:27 Is islisp any good? 13:09:45 no, IIRC 13:11:22 rrice1 [~rrice@76.211.6.129] has joined #lisp 13:11:52 -!- rrice1 [~rrice@76.211.6.129] has quit [Client Quit] 13:12:27 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 13:13:12 rrice [~rrice@76.211.6.129] has joined #lisp 13:14:38 pers [~user@p5DC726F6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:15:14 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:15:23 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:15:34 Don't forget, folks: els2010 early registration deadline is tomorrow. (Please come!) 13:16:50 -!- pers [~user@p5DC726F6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:17:01 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 13:17:01 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 13:17:14 pers [~user@p5DC726F6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:17:30 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 13:19:59 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-078-042-205-245.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:21:55 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-52.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 13:22:18 kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-52.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 13:23:45 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.180.190] has joined #lisp 13:26:38 -!- jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit [Quit: Boot me gently] 13:28:13 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 13:29:09 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 13:30:56 -!- jbirdium [~chatzilla@pool-98-114-33-48.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:31:09 -!- lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 13:31:11 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:33:26 -!- davazp [~user@ucaip182.uca.es] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:34:00 bigwavejake [~bigwaveja@user-0c8hqku.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 13:34:18 rdd` [~user@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 13:35:07 -!- rdd` is now known as rdd 13:35:32 bigwavejake pasted "macro making macro" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98086 13:35:54 i'm trying to make a macro that makes macros 13:36:15 like, renaming progn to begin (to make lisp feel more like scheme) 13:36:23 here's what I have: http://paste.lisp.org/display/98086 13:36:36 but it's not working... "unbound variable body" 13:36:38 if you want scheme, why not... use scheme? 13:36:39 any tips? 13:36:43 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 13:36:55 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:37:00 this is the moral equivalent of #define BEGIN { 13:37:00 bigwavejake: it's hard to get motivated to help someone develop what seems like a pretty bad idea, even if the mechanism itself is useful. 13:37:01 scheme's not fast enough for what i need 13:37:34 i have a bunch of scheme code, but it's too slow 13:37:35 bigwavejake: i suggest reading an introductory text on CL, which will cover how macros work. 13:37:46 and how backquote syntax is used. 13:37:58 billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 13:37:58 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Changing host] 13:37:58 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 13:38:33 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:38:57 instead of porting all the scheme code to lisp, I thought I'd just make some macros to make the porting easier 13:39:23 konr [~konrad@201.82.136.100] has joined #lisp 13:39:27 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 13:39:53 -!- djm [~djm@paludis/slacker/djm] has quit [Quit: 750] 13:39:54 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:40:10 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:43:12 -!- bigwavejake [~bigwaveja@user-0c8hqku.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:43:14 *rsynnott* would be surprised if a good scheme impl was significantly slower than a good CL impl 13:43:35 slow code is slow everywhere 13:43:46 rsynnott: especially if the metric for "good" is "not significantly slower than a good CL" 13:44:15 bigwavejake [~bigwaveja@user-0c8hqku.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 13:45:11 billstclair annotated #98086 "make-shortcut fixed" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98086#1 13:45:14 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:45:20 bigwavejake: there ya go 13:45:28 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:45:37 billstclair, thanks! 13:45:55 djm [~djm@paludis/slacker/djm] has joined #lisp 13:46:24 There's probably a way to do a nested backquote for that, but my brain isn't telling it to me today, so I did it the old-fashioned way 13:46:35 -!- quotemstr [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: quotemstr] 13:47:11 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 13:48:35 -!- lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 13:49:18 -!- cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 13:52:09 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754e03.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:54:36 myu2 [~myu2@w179122.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 13:56:48 -!- bigwavejake [~bigwaveja@user-0c8hqku.cable.mindspring.com] has left #lisp 13:57:32 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ftwsnojkcygogabx] has left #lisp 13:58:57 billstclair annotated #98086 "Nested backtrace version" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98086#2 13:59:07 Had to remind myself of how to do that 13:59:13 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:00:20 My macro chops are rusty 14:00:54 Which is a good thing. Macros are very useful, and usually not necessary. 14:03:49 -!- rdd [~user@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:03:53 dunkyp [~dunkyp@188-223-2-193.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:06:37 brookeGarcia [~brookeGar@dsl-149-94.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 14:07:07 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:10:47 xan_ [~xan@136.143.60.213.static.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 14:11:03 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.12.21] has joined #lisp 14:11:14 -!- j4K0b [~j4k0bk@93.160.119.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:11:15 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 14:13:51 wow I think I'm bitten by that stupid type warning bits pkhuong tried to address last week 14:14:28 (let* ((start-time (and timeout (get-internal-real-time))) (end-time (and timeout (+ start-time (timeout-to-internal-time timeout))))) ...) 14:14:33 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-88-162.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:15:56 I'm wondering, should timeout be computed to absolute time, and absolute times should be compared.... or should absolute times be calculated to relative times, and then those be compared? 14:19:12 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.180.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:23:11 kpreid [~kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 14:23:12 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:23:40 segmond [~seg@99.59.64.210] has joined #lisp 14:23:50 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:24:16 tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.5] has joined #lisp 14:24:33 -!- nurv [nurv@83.231.82.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:31:32 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has joined #lisp 14:32:23 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:32:38 is (defmethod (setf something) :after ...) a bad idea for any reason? bobbysmith007 just realized we can use that to simplify a lot of our code 14:33:26 nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-133-216.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 14:33:27 it's not necessarily a bad idea 14:33:34 it's sometimes a good idea 14:33:46 G'morning all. 14:33:47 make sure that you understand the implications with respect to (setf slot-value) 14:33:51 -!- varjag is now known as varjagg 14:35:04 So, SBCL/ppc64, anyone? 14:35:56 gigamonkey` [~user@adsl-99-17-206-187.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:12 -!- gigamonkey` is now known as gigamonkey 14:36:33 (Admittedly, I'll need to get a ppc32 build working first, but that shouldn't be too hard...) 14:36:43 Xach: herep 14:36:48 gigamonkey: hi there. 14:36:56 Yo. 14:37:13 I'm back on a Mac and wondering how to deal with fonts in Vecto. 14:37:31 On my linux box I had a bunch of .ttf files that I had obtained from somewhere. 14:37:42 gigamonkey: it's the same on the mac. 14:37:56 get a bunch of ttf files. zpb-ttf doesn't support OTF. 14:38:08 So I exported the font I want out of Font Book and got a .ttc file 14:38:17 Which 'file' says in a True Type collection. 14:38:19 that's a "truetype collection", i think. 14:38:27 Is there some easy way to get .ttfs out of that? 14:38:33 zpb-ttf doesn't support that either. haven't looked at what it would take. 14:40:04 jrye [~jrye@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 14:40:41 gigamonkey: the lack of support is a mix of a lack of interest (slightly) and a lack of time (mostly) 14:43:34 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:44:35 -!- dabr [~dabr@62-2-164-173.static.cablecom.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:44:36 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 14:44:38 Well, if I figure anything out about it, I'll let you know. 14:45:01 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:45:05 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:45:06 I suppose the most useful would by some Lisp code that groks OTF? 14:45:06 -!- jrye [~jrye@mpls.sift.info] has left #lisp 14:45:08 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 14:45:09 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:45:51 gigamonkey: that would be a good start. i had a branch of zpb-ttf that did a bit of it (dispatching on the file magic, etc), but it was incomplete. 14:48:17 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dfn189.rz.tu-ilmenau.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 14:51:51 ... Do I remember rightly that SBCL still sees intermittent build failures on PPC, largely blamed on problems with fixups? 14:55:27 nyef: or random gengc failures. 14:55:50 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:56:07 Ah, joy. 14:56:44 I'd probably have an easier time with the fixups. :-/ 14:59:08 -!- balooga [~00u4440@adsl-99-131-62-220.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:59:21 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 15:01:35 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-184.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:01:52 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-tjkgqcvaseykvksw] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:03:35 Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-14-230.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:04:16 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:05:03 Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 15:06:51 Anyone have a URL handy for the Powerpoint presentation that Dan Weinreb gave somewhere about ITA's fare matching software? Sorry, I know that's vague. 15:07:14 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:07:22 Fare works at ITA and wrote fare-matcher, which is not about fares at all. 15:07:32 I also don't have a link to weinreb's presentation, sorry. 15:07:50 ... Speaking of Fare, any word on a BLM this month? 15:08:03 are you sure you're not thinking of a talk about the reservation system? 15:08:18 -!- Guest80740 is now known as reb 15:08:42 jsnell: I don't think it's the reservation system talk I'm interested in. 15:08:55 http://xach.livejournal.com/225634.html has notes on the most recent talk i remember 15:09:08 OK, I'll take a look. Thanks. 15:09:35 as far as I know he wasn't working on qpx, so it'd be a bit surprising if he did a talk on it 15:09:38 The talk I'm thinking about has information about why route selection is hard ... width of the global flight graph, etc. 15:09:45 that might be Martin Cracauer 15:09:49 he gave a talk at sbcl10 15:09:55 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 15:10:09 audio should be available at http://sbcl10.sbcl.org/ 15:10:19 Krystof: thanks! 15:10:19 oh, next Monday, BLM at NEU 15:10:24 gotta announce it NOW 15:10:36 the really old one with the examples of how the fare matching was np-complete, etc? 15:11:00 *Xach* scoops fare, adds it to the calendar 15:11:05 there might be photos of Martin giving a similar talk at ECLM in Hamburg 15:11:11 if you include fare-by-rule in all its splendor, it's actually turing-equivalent! 15:11:58 adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-250-95.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 15:12:10 Xach: I suspect my login being "fare" was part of the joke of hiring me at ITA 15:12:10 fiveop [~fiveop@g229080063.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 15:12:28 -!- vtl [~user@nat/redhat/x-dyqltqzijiddcsat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:13:13 *Xach* changes his name to Quentin Q. Quickcompiler 15:13:33 http://www.demarcken.org/carl/papers/ITA-software-travel-complexity/ITA-software-travel-complexity.pdf 15:13:51 -!- ASau` [~user@77.246.230.187] has quit [Quit: off] 15:16:27 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0090-205-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has left #lisp 15:16:27 -!- wasabi [~wasabi@nttkyo705132.tkyo.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:16:40 jsnell: Thanks. I found something similar on the ITA site: http://itasoftware.com/pdf/MITComplexityofArlineTravelPLanning_Carl_Sep%2003.pdf 15:17:20 wasabi [~wasabi@nttkyo705132.tkyo.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:17:35 We did not expect the Google acquisition. 15:17:40 Curiosity today because of the reports that Google may be buying ITA. 15:17:41 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:18:04 *Krystof* hopes that jsnell and nikodemus were paid in shares 15:18:47 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-14-13.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:18:47 adeht: I'm not falling for that. 15:19:16 or maybe not. If it's being mentioned in the media, but hasn't yet been signed 15:19:54 sounds like just the kind of leak that has historically resulted in acquisitions being called off 15:20:12 -!- HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:20:59 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-35-208.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 15:22:10 ... or a strategic leak to encourage more bidders. 15:23:07 there should be an elaborate set of puzzles potential aquirers have to solve. 15:23:25 maybe Google has already solved them! 15:25:09 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-11-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:25:10 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:25:35 Fare: the orca bot on our internal IRC is running on top of cl-irc :) 15:26:05 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c-34b7e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:26:17 which really needs a minor version bump, if anyone is listening 15:26:33 echo echo cho cho o o o 15:26:42 felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has joined #lisp 15:28:29 smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:28:51 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:29:26 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 15:31:59 is this the official mirror of sbcl? http://repo.or.cz/w/sbcl.git 15:32:37 Does anyone remember, a while ago there was a pretty extensive discussion on the relative efficiency of WITH-SLOTS versus WITH-ACCESSORS? I can't recall if it was here, and it's resisting my (lame) Google-fu... 15:34:36 I would suspect that WITH-SLOTS allows for more opportunity for the compiler to optimize, but I admit to not actually knowing enough about CLOS implementation to be able to confirm or deny this suspicion. 15:35:17 slot-value can use the permutation vector optimization 15:35:20 prxq [~mommer@e179063193.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 15:35:47 *splittist* wonders if ITA can fix Google Groups, since jsnell hasn't (yet)... 15:37:06 what's wrong with it? I mean, besides the UI, the spam, and the search? 15:37:27 Joreji [~thomas@71-255.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:38:07 has Xach published his results on the use of logical pathnames? 15:39:53 I thought I vaguely remembered the counterintuitive result that WITH-ACCESSORS worked better. Vague memory that the READER functions provided all the optimization, and that SLOT-VALUE was a bottleneck due to something odd. But I may well be misremembering. 15:40:09 I just remember the results being counterintuitive 15:40:26 -!- pers [~user@p5DC726F6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:40:43 maybe you were expecting them to be counterintuitive, so them actually being intuitive went against your intuition 15:41:42 I think the answer depends if you're taking slot-value of a specialized argument within the body of a method, or slot-value of something else 15:42:10 for the first case slot-value will definitely win 15:42:27 fungo_ [~wangbo@2001:0:53aa:64c:c15:267d:210b:1d66] has joined #lisp 15:42:31 but I thought the latter would be a tie since slot-value on a constant slot-name will get transformed to an accessor call 15:42:39 (essentially) 15:43:17 -!- fungo_ [~wangbo@2001:0:53aa:64c:c15:267d:210b:1d66] has quit [Quit: sleep] 15:44:02 parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 15:44:20 true. It also depends if all slots of that name in classes that are accessed have the slot in the same position in their slot vector or not 15:44:25 I should be writing my C++ code 15:44:44 but even discussions of tangled performance-critical PCL code is more fun than that 15:47:15 jsnell: Perhaps. Maybe it came up in the context of a non-specialized argument. 15:47:25 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:47:43 Krystof: Is it necessary that this be a method with specialized argument, or OK in normal function with type declaration? 15:47:43 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 15:47:48 -!- bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has quit [Quit: off to home] 15:47:54 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has left #lisp 15:48:18 it is necessary that it be a method with a specialized argument 15:49:23 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:49:25 Krystof: thanks. 15:50:43 Krystof: I sympathize. This discussion also more fun than monthly progress report. 15:51:00 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 15:54:09 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:59:10 prxq: no 16:00:45 How do you call the interval that's periodically added to perform some operation periodically? Let it be X, then first operation happens at time X, then at X+X, etc. 16:01:46 davazp [~user@ucaip182.uca.es] has joined #lisp 16:02:12 -!- xan_ [~xan@136.143.60.213.static.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:02:42 alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 16:02:58 tcr: interval, period 16:03:26 Xach: ok. I'm looking forward to reading it :-) 16:03:36 tompa [~tompa@h59ec27fb.sehjjak.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #lisp 16:03:38 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:04:16 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has quit [Quit: -arividerchi] 16:04:41 Wouldn't it just be "period"? 16:05:49 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:06:33 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:06:41 If there's some variation to it, would it be an aperiod? 16:06:44 well in my case it's something like the HZ constant of linux 16:06:48 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:07:01 frequency? 16:07:45 Frequency would be good if you were working in terms of how many times it happens in a given time period. 16:07:47 (which isn't what you were asking for originally, but is suggested by hz) 16:08:05 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 16:08:50 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 16:10:16 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 16:11:46 tcr: as one of my physics tutors once said: "UNITS" 16:12:03 if it's in per-time, it's a frequency. If it's a time, it's a period or a time interval 16:12:13 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:12:26 oh yeah I know, I just wondered if there's a catchy constant name for periods like it's HZ for frequency 16:12:35 I settled with +time-quantum+ 16:13:09 Seems like locally+disable-package-lock doesn't work with declaim+type 16:13:47 (locally (declare (sb-ext:disable-package-locks sb-impl::*deadline*)) (declaim (type (or null unsigned-byte) sb-impl::*deadline*))) 16:14:30 tcr: TAU 16:15:18 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 16:15:39 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:16:08 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 16:16:18 xan_ [~xan@183.139.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 16:16:49 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 16:17:14 Typical Application User? 16:18:07 balooga1 [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 16:18:44 -!- balooga1 [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Client Quit] 16:19:10 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:19:23 -!- wasabi [~wasabi@nttkyo705132.tkyo.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:20:05 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:20:32 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:20:34 wedgeV [~wedge@rrcs-24-103-21-79.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:20:43 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 16:21:37 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 16:22:28 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 16:23:00 lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 16:23:23 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.97.15] has joined #lisp 16:24:48 xinming_ [~hyy@125.109.252.126] has joined #lisp 16:25:13 -!- Joreji [~thomas@71-255.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:25:19 quotemstr [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:25:35 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:26:29 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:33 -!- udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-zxofbykcirqqafwz] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:26:34 Joreji [~thomas@71-255.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 16:26:45 -!- xinming [~hyy@125.109.254.118] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:27:30 milanj [~milanj_@77.46.202.208] has joined #lisp 16:27:32 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 16:27:32 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:28:26 -!- quotemstr [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 16:30:03 Good evening! 16:30:09 alinp [~alinp@89.137.98.94] has joined #lisp 16:30:18 good evening 16:30:35 Hey frodef, what's up? 16:31:31 beach: hi, not much.. work and kids, as usual 16:31:36 hi beach 16:31:49 frodef: No wife? 16:31:52 hey prxq 16:32:12 beach: she's been to sweden this week, coming home tonight. 16:32:22 Ah! 16:32:57 beach: any progress on the reader/compiler? 16:33:24 wasabi [~wasabi@nttkyo951103.tkyo.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:33:34 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-176-201-129.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 16:33:38 frodef: Not enough continuous time. I've been working on type declarations and loop instead. 16:33:55 ..wrt. the new compiler? 16:34:05 yeah. 16:35:00 gotto go pick up aksel at a friend's.. 16:35:17 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:35:36 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 16:35:44 -!- acieroid` is now known as acieroid 16:37:20 frodef: Tell everyone hello! 16:37:52 quotemstr [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:38:29 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 16:38:52 -!- levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Quit: ...] 16:39:16 beach: Hey, why don't you swipe the compiler that frodef wrote? 16:40:16 dlowe: orca eats manatee? 16:40:22 -!- necroforest [~jarred@pool-71-191-247-161.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:40:35 Fare: that was the inspiration for the name, yes 16:40:45 nyef: All I have done about compiler so far is a few experiments, and I started implementing a library for manipulating MIR code. I suspect the compiler will be last, which is a long way off. So perhaps the one frodef wrote will be fine. 16:41:51 necroforest [~jarred@pool-71-191-247-161.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:36 -!- dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:43:48 nyef: I would like to finish a few modules and turn them out, for instance format, loop, read (except #= and ##), type declarations, docstrings, and perhaps standard macros in that order. 16:43:53 (roughly) 16:44:03 Fair enough. 16:44:17 You have very different goals than I suspect I would. 16:44:47 nyef: Perhaps, but it has to do with the reality of my working conditions as well. 16:45:53 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:46:13 -!- alinp [~alinp@89.137.98.94] has quit [Quit: alinp] 16:48:02 beach: you mean, p4pers have to be wr1tten..? :-) 16:48:04 I wouldn't even try to dispute that. 16:48:39 prxq: Papers? No, I am talking about 12h or administration per day, including weekends for quite some time now. 16:49:14 prxq: With each day cut into such small pieces there is no chance to get anything as complex as a compiler done that way. 16:49:17 beach, ugh 16:49:23 hi 16:49:24 uh that sounds bad 16:49:25 can't you get someone to help you? 16:49:33 hello wolgo 16:49:55 tic: That doesn't seem like an option. But on the other hand, hell will be over in just 12 weeks. 16:49:55 hi beach 16:50:19 -!- davazp [~user@ucaip182.uca.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:50:40 beach, end of semester? 16:50:43 -!- amaron_ [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:50:48 tic: End of mandate period. 16:51:03 beach, what mandate? 16:51:16 tic: "studierektor" 16:52:46 beach, yay! 16:52:57 tic: And I'll spend 4 of those in Vietnam, which will do me good! 16:54:05 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-206-187.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:54:18 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-206-187.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:55:18 Dinner! Back later maybe. 16:55:51 bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 16:56:21 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 16:56:24 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [] 16:56:30 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 16:57:01 I'd like to return from a function something like #xff (not 255 binary). How would I go about getting this representation? 16:57:18 (not 255 decimal) 16:57:22 nixeagle: what does #xff mean to you? 16:57:40 Xach: what the reader macro #x does :> 16:57:50 nixeagle: do you want the string "#xff"? 16:58:39 '#xff 16:58:43 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 16:58:50 Xach: I'm not sure, I could do (format nil "~" 255) ... 16:59:12 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 16:59:22 nixeagle: well, maybe it's time to back up a bit. why do you want to do that? 16:59:36 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 16:59:48 Xach: because I'm working with machine level code. 16:59:57 I want the hexidecimal representation 17:00:17 nixeagle: you seem confused 17:00:27 I'm probably going to just have to invoke format for my case :> 17:00:38 adeht: would not be unheard of. 17:00:41 -!- prxq [~mommer@e179063193.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:01:01 nixeagle: i have a function ZPB:HEX to see that, for a given integer object. 17:01:08 and ZPB:BITS also. 17:01:11 (princ "#xff") returns #xff 17:01:16 nixeagle: the representation is #xFF and 255 is the same. it is the notation that's difference. 17:01:34 adeht: I perfectly understand that, I'd just like the notation :> 17:01:36 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:01:45 if you want to print it in hexadecimal, then (format t "~x" 255) 17:01:46 #x is just a reader macro, I know that 17:01:53 but the number stays the same 17:01:56 Xach pasted "zpb:bits and zpb:hex" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98095 17:02:04 woah that was some screwed up English :) 17:02:18 nixeagle: when i get a result i want to see differently, sometimes i use those. 17:03:08 Xach: alright, that is probably what I should have done myself. I probably should not have gotten so stuck around getting the #x back out because of course its the same thing :> 17:03:25 thanks guys 17:03:26 you could have some annotation structure containing both the integer and the desired notation 17:03:45 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 17:04:36 e.g., (255 hex) 17:04:38 adeht: nah, its just I wanted to always see them in the hex form for the project I'm doing and I think just using format will do what I need. 17:04:47 or perhaps (255 16) 17:04:55 (setf *print-base* 16) 17:05:06 oooh! 17:05:29 stassats: \o/ you rock! 17:05:30 then a printer would interpret these annotations 17:05:43 sure, if you want _all_ integers to be in base 16 :) 17:05:51 *printer in base 16 17:06:05 *nixeagle* writes a (call-with-hex ...) function and a (with-hex ...) wrapper macro 17:06:15 uh 17:06:15 jlf [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has joined #lisp 17:06:18 stassats: thank you so much :> 17:06:28 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 17:06:30 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 17:07:00 if you're talking about the repl's printing of return values, binding *print-base* during execution is not enough 17:07:03 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 17:07:10 *adeht* 's English tells him that he should take a break ;) 17:09:03 adeht: (set-pprint-dispatch '(eql 255) (lambda (s o) (format s "#xff"))) ; now only 255 is printed in hex 17:10:39 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 17:11:23 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Client Quit] 17:12:51 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:13:23 Krystof: last time I played with pprint-dispatch was « and » for strings ;) 17:13:33 Krystof: *print-radix* heps out a bit :> 17:13:42 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:14:11 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.97.15] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:15:36 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-206-187.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:15:42 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-206-187.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:18:55 Ebzzry [~Ebzzry@115.147.106.125] has joined #lisp 17:19:38 Hi! What is the closest equivalent of something like clbuild, on Windows systems? 17:20:09 Ebzzry: clbuild and cygwin (not that I have any idea whether it works) 17:20:32 Hmm. Ok. 17:24:16 Xach: its fine if I use your two functions in an open source project? 17:24:26 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:24:27 What would you like credit under? 17:25:23 nixeagle: knock yourself out. please credit me as Xachthor, God-Emperor of the Parethetical Hegemony Hemisphere. 17:25:36 wait, just Zach Beane of Wigflip, if you're inclined. 17:25:47 Xach: hah! can I just go with Xachthor ;) 17:26:05 I do (out (:x integer :width 8 :base 16 :pad-char #\0)) to print something like 00003039 for 12345 17:26:54 wigflip it is :> 17:26:56 erm, :base unneeded (:x implies base 16) 17:27:16 adeht: what fancy macro is (out? 17:27:25 -!- Ebzzry [~Ebzzry@115.147.106.125] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:28:05 nixeagle: http://github.com/death/constantia/blob/master/out.lisp 17:28:15 HerrBlume [~user@62.96.71.161] has joined #lisp 17:30:11 Shaftoe [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096725400.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 17:31:34 following up on a thread I had started yesterday: it seems that there's no real safe way to make use of user customizable tags in HTML-Template without causing a potential DDOS vector, as even if I make a custom value accessor function, the parser reads the tag names from the HTML template and converts them to keywords 17:32:09 -!- mbd [~user@202.80.41.159] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:32:24 s/DDOS/DoS/ 17:33:07 what a thorn on my side. 17:33:53 Shaftoe: It could be worse. Imagine a hole that allowed an attacker to install MS-DOS 5 on your machine? 17:34:05 heh. =) 17:34:14 that would be my call to retirement 17:34:20 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 17:34:21 blandest [~blandest@79.112.109.113] has joined #lisp 17:34:32 something like GCTWA? 17:34:52 -!- tfb [~tfb@212.183.140.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:34:55 -!- Krystof [~csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:36:53 Samuel9999 [tt@unaffiliated/samuel9999] has joined #lisp 17:39:43 adeht: thanks 17:40:00 -!- HerrBlume [~user@62.96.71.161] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:40:21 alright. so I'm going to have to implement a limited version of HTML template (essentially a search and replace on fairly long strings). 17:40:33 anything I should keep in mind when doing this sort of thing? 17:41:22 saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:41:46 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:44:15 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:44:42 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 17:46:07 Shaftoe: html-template has semantics like that, but is implemented by compiling the template. you might want to do something similar. 17:46:43 by compiling the template, I'm assuming you mean its use of creating a list closures 17:47:08 -!- MetalDust_zzflop is now known as MetalDust 17:47:09 Yes. 17:47:10 I don't know if that'll be doable as I'll be running this on fairly variable data (i.e. I might end up compiling every time I do it) 17:47:34 the idea is to provide a data field to user in which they can add "tags" that will expand into whatever. 17:48:16 so it means that there will be as many "templates" as there are rows in a db table, and they will also be dynamic (meaning the user can edit/change them any time) 17:48:17 -!- dunkyp [~dunkyp@188-223-2-193.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:49:09 I think I'm just going to implement a simple recursive function: find a tag, spit out replacement, call self. And wrap it all in a stream to string wrapper. 17:49:11 Axius [~hi@92.84.22.107] has joined #lisp 17:49:13 see how that goes. 17:49:31 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:49:44 I'm wondering if there's a hands down better method that I don't know about though 17:50:34 -!- Joreji [~thomas@71-255.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:50:46 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:51:27 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 17:54:35 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-168-152-229.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:55:42 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:56:42 nixeagle: http://siyobik.info/pastebin_download.php?id=386 for some amusing conversation some months ago 17:59:02 Heh. Bug filed, effectively "tracing SBCL system internals doesn't work". 17:59:11 -!- parolang [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:01:39 adeht: that red fever has some weird questions, is what I'll say 18:01:43 tracing tracer 18:01:57 jcrigby [~jrigby@c-98-202-243-83.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:03:20 -!- Axius [~hi@92.84.22.107] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:03:49 man. that entire conversation is like a "who's on first base" skit 18:05:04 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbJwwJ33TEI 18:05:05 hah. 18:05:16 they could be talking about hexadecimals 18:06:01 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 18:08:39 -!- X-02 [~schopenha@p2231-ipbf204kyoto.kyoto.ocn.ne.jp] has left #lisp 18:09:41 -!- hsaliak [~hsaliak@cm34.sigma72.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:10:00 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:10:05 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 18:10:51 dnolen [~dnolen@pool-70-19-75-48.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:11:05 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-206-187.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:12:58 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 18:17:34 levente_meszaros [~levente_m@77.111.93.59] has joined #lisp 18:17:40 daniel___ [~daniel@p5082EFA5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:17:58 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082D113.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:18:03 -!- daniel___ is now known as daniel 18:20:22 Good evening! 18:20:40 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:21:39 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:18 Evening beach. 18:22:52 I guess I missed that "intersting" discussion about a function returning a hex value. 18:24:13 nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 18:24:17 dunkyp [~user@188-223-2-193.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:25:08 -!- Elench is now known as Lipid 18:26:02 -!- Shaftoe [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096725400.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Shaftoe] 18:27:07 I don't think the movitz compiler is worth much.. 18:27:20 ..which is why I want to write a new one :) 18:27:29 Heh. 18:27:32 Interesting! 18:27:44 Honestly, I've never been able to figure out how to start hacking on the movitz compiler. 18:28:08 nyef: And so you recommend it to me? 18:28:52 Well, it's -there-, and it could just be me who has a problem figuring out which side of it is up. 18:28:59 nyef: I didn't know the first think about writing a compiler when I started it, so it's probably rather inconventional. 18:29:03 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 18:29:07 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-208-207.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 18:29:30 It seems like it's a classical non-optimizing compiler in some ways. 18:29:41 hm.. unconventional? 18:30:01 marioxcc [~user@200.52.211.142] has joined #lisp 18:30:01 nyef: that's what it started out as, and then I wanted to optimize some things.. 18:30:21 frodef: yes, unconventional, and *thing :) 18:30:21 -!- Lipid is now known as Elench 18:30:49 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:30:49 frodef: Your English is deteriorating. :) 18:31:43 I've been out of academia too long.. :) 18:31:46 What about a LLVM compiler? 18:31:46 varjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 18:31:47 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 18:31:52 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.52.211.142] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:32:01 I'm sure that has been suggested, or maybe even done, before 18:32:07 frodef: Apply for a position here? 18:32:16 marioxcc [~user@200.52.211.142] has joined #lisp 18:32:40 frodef: It is warmer in Bordeaux than in Oslo. 18:32:45 beach: "too long" as in less immersed in english, not as in "I want to go back" ;) 18:32:56 darn! 18:33:31 beach: not to say it's not tempting to go to bordeaux.. 18:33:32 OTOH, there are Norwegians in Oslo. <3 Scandinavian languages. 18:33:32 I guess what I wrote before about current admin load is not going to help encourage you. 18:33:45 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-76-168-152-229.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 18:34:10 frodef: There is actually some interesting companies here. 18:34:25 frodef: The startup where mvilleneuve is working for instance. 18:34:37 frodef: Or that of Haplo. 18:34:44 beach: any urls? 18:34:49 Both use Common Lisp techology. 18:35:09 frodef: hold on... 18:36:22 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-11-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:36:44 frodef: widmee.com for the company that mvilleneuve works for. 18:37:01 -!- splittist [~bc3ef51e@gateway/web/freenode/x-ggamgihyzezdcgdb] has quit [Quit: The champers calls] 18:38:15 My dog's name is Haplo :p 18:38:22 minion: memo for mvilleneuve: oh no! You are using flags (which are political symbols) to designate languages (which are purely linguistic by definition). Please don't! Or you will insult potential customers. 18:38:23 Remembered. I'll tell mvilleneuve when he/she/it next speaks. 18:40:32 I'm actually developing a banking application for mobile telephones as it is :) 18:40:53 mbd [~user@202.80.41.159] has joined #lisp 18:40:59 frodef: I think we have a fit! You should definitely talk to mvilleneuve! 18:41:18 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:43:12 Hello! I have a list '(foo :keyword1 value1 :keyword2 value2) is there a function to get the value of keyword? 18:43:33 mrSpec: getf 18:43:59 fatblueduck [~duck@pool-71-104-235-97.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:44:15 davazp [~user@83.57.37.58] has joined #lisp 18:44:39 (destructuring-bind (&key keyword1 keyword2 &allow-other-keys) list ...) can be useful, too 18:44:42 -!- benny [~benny@i577A3618.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:44:44 ysph [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:44:49 mrSpec: destructuring-bind is useful sometimes too. 18:44:49 clhs getf 18:44:49 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_getf.htm 18:44:52 thanks :) 18:44:56 argh! 18:46:54 -!- segmond is now known as eastwind 18:48:32 dunkyp` [~user@188-223-2-193.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:48:43 -!- dunkyp` [~user@188-223-2-193.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 18:49:04 anyone going to els? 18:50:11 -!- dunkyp [~user@188-223-2-193.zone14.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:50:34 (getf '(foo :bar baz :quux qax) :bar) fails (because the first isn't the key) it works without the leading foo 18:51:17 dcrawford: I've just discovered this :/ 18:51:39 -!- Reinout_Stevens is now known as PissedNumlock 18:51:41 Is the foo significant? Is it always present? 18:51:44 (getf '(foo :bar baz :quux qax :fax) :bar) gives nil (it's looking at foo baz qax as keys 18:51:54 nyef: yes 18:51:54 (getf '(foo :bar baz :quux qax :fax) 'baz) gives :QUUX 18:52:27 Ah, the keys and values are backwards from what getf expects? 18:52:29 that earlier fail was probably more likely because of the odd # of elements given these last two results 18:53:25 -!- levente_meszaros [~levente_m@77.111.93.59] has quit [Quit: ...] 18:54:26 nyef: ok, I think I can ignore this "foo", so problem solved :D 18:55:05 I'll use car and then (getf (cdr ... ) ..) 18:55:34 (getf (cdr '(foo :bar baz)) :bar) 18:55:38 ninjad 18:55:40 leo2007: You bet. 18:57:02 After doing abit of upgrade with SBCL + Emacs to latest versions, I ran m-x slime-connect again and this time the welcome hacker message appear on my Emacs lower pane but the slime repl never appeared. Wonder why ? Any idea on where to stub next is very welcome :) 18:57:54 beach: you are going? 18:58:32 mbd: how do you call slime-setup in your ~/.emacs (or other init file)? 18:58:35 leo2007: I'm part of the steering committee, so yes. And my wife is coming as well, in case you want her to sign your copy of the LiSP book! 18:58:39 leo2007: have you seen Programme Committee ? 18:58:41 ahh 18:59:38 beach: which book is authored by your wife? 18:59:40 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-189-117.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:55 minion: tell leo2007 about LiSP. 18:59:55 leo2007: please see LiSP: "Lisp in Small Pieces". This book covers Lisp, Scheme and other related dialects, their interpretation, semantics and compilation. To sum it up in a few figures: 500 pages, 11 chapters, 11 interpreters and 2 compilers. 19:00:05 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:00:11 leo2007: She translated it into English. 19:00:46 beach: cool 19:00:56 beach: Does she hack lisp too? :D 19:01:04 mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has joined #lisp 19:01:07 mrSpec: Not anymore. 19:01:25 mrSpec: But Lisp (not CL though) was her first computer language. 19:01:40 mrSpec: Imagine how hard it was for her to learn Pascal after that :( 19:01:43 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:01:58 oh :( 19:02:49 'morning 19:03:01 leo2007: I assume you know there was a point where this book was a bestseller on canadian Amazon (ahead of three different Harry Potter books), right? 19:03:09 hello Fade 19:03:16 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.69.52] has joined #lisp 19:03:48 beach: Was there any university where lisp was taught as first language? 19:03:57 heya, beach 19:04:04 MIT used Scheme for many years 19:04:05 evening Fade ;) 19:04:19 mrSpec: Depends on whether you consider Scheme to be a Lisp. 19:04:25 beach: i heard about it only. 19:04:42 Ah, ok 19:05:51 why wouldn't you consider scheme to be a Lisp? 19:06:01 leo2007: http://dept-info.labri.fr/~strandh/amazon.ca.ps though I don't seem able to display it myself with evince right now. 19:06:13 Fade: Boring discussion. 19:06:40 it never occured to me as a possibiliity. 19:07:03 *beach* won't say a thing for fear of an interminable discussion. 19:07:28 beach: excellent. 19:07:34 i can see it on osx. 19:08:04 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:08:10 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:08:15 leo2007: Good. I could probably see it as well, but I have a printed copy of it on the wall in my office for the benefit of my colleagues. :) 19:09:02 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 19:09:52 leo2007: I'll tell my wife to bring the pen she got when she was given the award of "distinguished technical writer" at her company, so that she can sign your copy with some dignity. 19:10:22 all right ;) 19:10:48 [this means, you have to hurry up to get yourself a copy unless you already have one] :) 19:11:37 Fade: your going to want to search the c.l.l archives for the answers to that one. 19:11:43 you're* 19:12:53 http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/search?q="scheme+not+a+lisp" is something you could start with 19:14:11 is there a measure od symmetry between a defgeneric and an interface / abstract method? 19:14:16 *of 19:14:46 wolgo: CL doesn't have the concept of interface or abstract method. 19:14:54 McCarthy original lisp wasn't lisp then? 19:15:22 beach: I have read that but the description of defgeneric in PCL kind of 19:15:22 Guthur: Oh, you must mean LISP as opposed to Lisp. 19:15:34 explains this as a hybrid of those two items 19:15:59 wolgo: I just don't know what you mean by those items because they are not part of the CL vocabulary. 19:16:04 lispm [~joswig@e177149080.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:16:24 okay 19:16:44 HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 19:18:28 wolgo: What we call a *protocol* (not a standardized term, it essentially means a collection of available names and/or signatures of classes/functions, etc) is a generalization of what Java calls an interface, because types can participate in several protocols and several types can participate in a single protocol. 19:19:11 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:19:49 wolgo: I got a clue what this was about by reading Keene's book, but it really made me understand when I read the CLIM specification. 19:20:31 minion: Please tell wolgo about CLIM. 19:20:32 wolgo: look at CLIM: The Common Lisp Interface Manager (CLIM) is a powerful Lisp-based programming interface that provides a layered set of portable facilities for constructing user interfaces. http://www.cliki.net/CLIM 19:20:53 oh okay 19:21:47 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 19:23:04 beach: what's your take on Keene's advice to write constructors? 19:24:08 luis: I support it, after may years of not supporting it, after having gotten in trouble not using them in Gsharp. The cases where you need them are rare, though, and I haven't figured out a way of characterizing them. 19:24:28 Guthur: no, McCarthy's LISP was not lisp at all in fact. 19:25:28 luis: But it has to do with exact types depending on types you pass as arguments. 19:25:37 McCarthy drew a strong distinction between LISP and RFSE. The former was the computer language, the later, a notation. 19:26:14 -!- fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:26:38 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:26:41 beach: you can get around that 19:27:04 fe[nl]ix: Excellent! Please fix the Gsharp code to reflect that! 19:27:21 minion: memo for stassats: Re: slime-update-threads-buffer: a) it does not check whether a connection is alive; b) better do not use slime-eval there, but slime-eval-async. 19:27:21 Remembered. I'll tell stassats when he/she/it next speaks. 19:27:56 beach: if the metaclass of your objects is something other than cl:standard-class, you can specialize make-instance for the "abstract" type you're creating 19:27:57 So there is only one lisp 19:28:06 and choose the exact type 19:28:25 Guthur: of course there is, we just haven't found it yet. 19:28:29 fe[nl]ix: Thanks, but changing the metaclass make other things more complicated in my opinion. 19:28:37 beach: such as ? 19:29:10 fe[nl]ix: complications when people want to use their own mixins for instance. 19:30:05 beach: define-gsharp-class 19:31:25 How does one gets restricted-access ACM papers? 19:31:31 *get 19:31:34 deepfire: one way is to join the ACM. 19:31:36 fe[nl]ix: Sure, everything is possible. But I see Keene's advice as meaning: look make-instance creates a direct instance of whatever class you tell it to, whereas make-thing creates some appropriate subclass of thing that depends on the arguments you pass, and that seems like a useful abstraction to me. 19:31:42 -!- xan_ [~xan@183.139.165.83.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:31:45 deepfire: or join an institution that has institutional access (like some universities) 19:32:14 In particular, I want "A machine-oriented logic based on the resolution principle" by Robinson, 1965. 19:32:19 deepfire: or find a friend at such an institution who will give it to you (many papers have generous redistribution terms even though they are not easily availble to non-members) 19:32:23 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:33:19 It describes the unification algorithm used by the Hindley-Milner type inference. 19:35:16 deepfire: I am opposed to copyright in its current form, but I am also opposed to illegal activities, so I hope you are not asking #lisp members to do something illegal to help you out. 19:35:36 beach: The GoF "abstract factory" pattern? 19:36:10 nyef: yes, sometimes it's useful 19:36:38 nyef: Pretty much (though again, I haven't thought it through), but as usual, with Lisp, things can be simplified a lot. 19:37:21 I absolutely won't deny that. More fun, though, is the application of the factory patterns in MAKE-PANE. 19:38:06 nyef: I am sure you are right, but I am not in a state of mind to check that tonight. 19:38:25 Perfectly fair. 19:38:35 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:38:39 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-189-117.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:39:04 fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 19:40:32 i have recently started using more make-foo's instead of make-instance... For some reason i've decided that it's poor etiquette to force a user to user make-instance unless they are also expected to subclass. 19:41:09 -!- Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:41:51 rme [~rme@pool-70-104-124-149.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:26 Yeah, I've been leaning towards writing constructors as well, lately. 19:43:32 -!- fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:44:18 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 19:44:23 But they shouldn't add any behaviour that would mess inheritance up. 19:44:56 such as? 19:45:49 -!- tcr [~tcr@host178.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:45:56 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:45:57 Anything that you could add to make-instance :after instead, really. 19:46:15 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 19:46:19 makes sense. 19:46:20 tcr [~tcr@host178.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 19:46:42 I meant initialize-instance. 19:47:03 er, sure, I read it that way. 19:47:11 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:50:23 gozek [~quassel@87.216.165.56] has joined #lisp 19:51:42 -!- konr [~konrad@201.82.136.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:51:54 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 19:52:58 -!- tcr [~tcr@host178.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:53:09 luis: shared-initialize, please 19:53:23 tcr [~tcr@host178.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 19:53:30 -!- tcr [~tcr@host178.natpool.mwn.de] has left #lisp 19:54:04 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 19:57:00 froydnj: ISTR understanding the usefulness of shared-initialize but I don't remember the argument anymore. Got any pointers? 19:57:19 fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 19:57:56 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 19:58:21 luis: shared-initialize is also called by reinitialize-instance 19:58:22 luis: the advantage is that reinitialize-instance works right 19:59:05 luis: (and other things, like change-class and such, but those are minor compared to reinitialize-instance) 19:59:50 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 19:59:53 what would go wrong with reinitialize-instance? 20:00:23 attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 20:00:27 -!- htk_ [~htk_@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:01:05 -!- HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:01:23 htk_ [~htk_@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has joined #lisp 20:01:27 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:02:00 how do I check which character encoding my lisp is using? 20:02:04 luis: I don't understand the question 20:02:11 sbcl 20:02:34 luis: froydnj should've given you a link to his blog post 20:02:42 -!- fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:02:51 which was an excellent explication of the protocol 20:03:05 knobo: (sb-impl::default-external-format) 20:03:33 adeht: that's probably what made me aware of the issue, yeah. 20:03:37 *luis* googles 20:03:39 luis: http://www.method-combination.net/blog/archives/2009/12/22/clos-initialization-protocol.html 20:06:24 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 20:06:53 jao [~jao@6.Red-88-18-102.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:48 konr [~konrad@201.82.136.100] has joined #lisp 20:07:55 I have the following in my emacs: (set-language-environment "UTF-8") (setq slime-net-coding-system 'utf-8-unix), and sb-impl::default-external-format is :UTF-8, and hunchentoot:*default-content-type*, My html has (:meta :http-equiv "Content-Type" :content "text/html;charset=utf-8") but my web page is only displayed correctly if I set my _browser_ to latin-1. 20:08:01 strange. 20:09:47 dabd [~dabd@a81-84-79-105.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 20:09:57 hmm, sbcl: /lib64/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.7' not found (required by sbcl) 20:10:07 centos 5.3 20:11:04 does cl-who have any options for character encoding? 20:11:13 milanj: your libc is earlier than the libc that sbcl was linked to 20:11:23 -!- dabd [~dabd@a81-84-79-105.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 20:11:29 either upgrade your libc or build yourself an sbcl from sources 20:11:38 well, as usual, naggum makes a good explanation. 20:11:49 yes, i already started compiled, thanks anyway 20:11:54 *compile 20:11:56 or, maybe emacs has made latin-1 characters? 20:12:00 dabd [~dabd@a81-84-79-105.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 20:12:11 -!- dabd [~dabd@a81-84-79-105.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 20:12:13 how do I change the characters in emacs? 20:12:15 dabd [~dabd@a81-84-79-105.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 20:13:21 knobo: set-buffer-file-coding-system? 20:13:35 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:15:20 any lightning talker for next monday in Boston? 20:15:26 fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 20:17:09 buffer-file-coding-system Its value is utf-8-unix.. 20:17:54 Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.233] has joined #lisp 20:18:07 $ file foo.lisp: UTF-8 Unicode English text... hmmmm 20:18:13 this is really strange. 20:18:39 -!- mbd [~user@202.80.41.159] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:19:12 benny [~benny@i577A12A6.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 20:20:32 -!- fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:20:42 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:22:01 knobo: maybe hexdump the file and see if any characters have their high bits set unexpectedly and/or are not properly utf-8 20:22:10 slash_ [~Unknown@whgeh0250.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has joined #lisp 20:22:12 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:22:29 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has joined #lisp 20:22:29 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 20:23:02 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has quit [Quit: mstevens] 20:24:49 (setf hunchentoot:*HUNCHENTOOT-DEFAULT-EXTERNAL-FORMAT* (flex:make-external-format :utf-8 :eol-style :lf)) fixed it. 20:25:03 one thousand external-format settings :( 20:28:25 -!- davazp [~user@83.57.37.58] has left #lisp 20:29:10 sam_ [~sam_53652@ip72-200-158-69.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:29:38 -!- sam_ is now known as Guest17311 20:29:39 knobo: hunchentoot actually has that defined as +utf-8+ internally 20:30:01 Not sure why it doesn't bother exporting it 20:32:49 sam__ [~sam_53652@ip72-200-158-69.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:54 boston lisp meeting announcement just came out 20:33:07 francogrex [~user@180.92-243-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 20:33:14 fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 20:34:17 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 20:34:48 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 20:36:12 -!- lispm [~joswig@e177149080.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: lispm] 20:37:31 -!- fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:40:29 lispm [~joswig@e177149080.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:40:34 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:41:36 -!- sam__ [~sam_53652@ip72-200-158-69.ri.ri.cox.net] has left #lisp 20:46:02 -!- Guest17311 [~sam_53652@ip72-200-158-69.ri.ri.cox.net] has left #lisp 20:47:20 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-133-171-82.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:47:31 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:48:17 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [] 20:50:15 cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 20:50:50 fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 20:52:54 -!- lispm [~joswig@e177149080.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:54:45 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:55:01 DeusExPikachu [pikachu@anapnea.net] has joined #lisp 20:55:04 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:55:09 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-xo.basistech.com] has joined #lisp 20:55:28 -!- quotemstr [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: quotemstr] 20:55:36 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:55:38 -!- fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:56:18 drhodes [~none@209-20-72-61.slicehost.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:37 -!- DeusExPikachu [pikachu@anapnea.net] has left #lisp 20:58:10 bobf [~bob@unaffiliated/bob-f/x-6028553] has joined #lisp 20:58:10 -!- bobf [~bob@unaffiliated/bob-f/x-6028553] has quit [Client Quit] 20:58:13 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 20:58:46 eugu [~Miranda@212.1.246.237] has joined #lisp 20:58:48 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 20:59:44 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 20:59:55 -!- rme [rme@clozure-74D12576.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 21:00:17 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-104-124-149.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:00:18 how can one run several instances/windows of CL in *inferior-lisp* in emacs? 21:01:19 -!- davertron [~Dave@vt-sb-1.logicsupply.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:01:39 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 21:01:45 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-88-162.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 21:01:46 would like to split emacs in 4 and run simultanoeusly ecl, sbcl, ccl and clisp 21:02:21 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 21:04:05 "I think method combination should be preferred when possible", as seen on method-combination.net :-) 21:04:06 shanker [~0@unaffiliated/shanker] has joined #lisp 21:04:35 francogrex: you can have 4 different *inferior-lisp* buffers 21:05:01 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754e03.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:05:01 I'm daring to suggest that Nikodemus was smiling while writing these lines.. 21:06:49 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 21:06:56 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-xo.basistech.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:07:02 Oh, hm, sorry not Nikodemus, Nathan.. 21:07:27 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:08:04 drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:08:15 goedel [steffen@unaffiliated/goedel] has joined #lisp 21:08:51 fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 21:08:57 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:26 drewc: you prompted me to make a web page for you 21:09:34 and now you don't respond to email or query 21:09:38 what is the deal here? 21:09:48 -!- shanker [~0@unaffiliated/shanker] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:10:16 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 21:11:06 -!- goedel [steffen@unaffiliated/goedel] has left #lisp 21:12:33 -!- francogrex [~user@180.92-243-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:12:58 -!- fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:13:23 mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:17:44 fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-078-042-205-245.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 21:18:50 quodlibetor [~user@ool-45723726.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:00 -!- gozek [~quassel@87.216.165.56] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:21:21 -!- quodlibetor [~user@ool-45723726.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:21:39 pinterface [~pinterfac@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has joined #lisp 21:23:18 -!- brookeGarcia [~brookeGar@dsl-149-94.aei.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:24:15 tcr [~tcr@host178.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 21:25:50 brookeGarcia [~brookeGar@dsl-149-94.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 21:26:26 -!- brookeGarcia [~brookeGar@dsl-149-94.aei.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:26:52 fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 21:28:07 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 21:28:30 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@200.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:28:47 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:31:10 -!- fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:34:36 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-83-2.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:36:00 brookeGarcia [~brookeGar@dsl-149-94.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 21:36:11 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 21:37:53 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:37:58 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@g229080063.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 21:37:58 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 21:40:28 kejsaren1 [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:30 I am trying to understand exactly what call-next-method does, if I call-next-method from a method that is associated with a subclass, call-next-method calls the ancestor object method with the same name? 21:40:46 kejsaren2 [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:57 I am not sure if this is the right terminology. 21:41:20 lnostdal [~lnostdal@200.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 21:42:29 That can't be right, because you can have :around methods that call-next-method and end up calling a primary method specialized against a subclass of the one the :around method was specialized on. 21:43:30 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:43:33 I do not understand this. 21:43:40 I am going to go google this some more. 21:43:55 call-next-method calls the next appropriate method. ;) 21:44:09 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:44:29 also, methods don't have names.. given arguments to a generic function, it has a list of methods that are applicable 21:44:38 call-next-method is a way to call the next method in that list 21:45:01 fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 21:45:23 the ordering of the methods in the list is defined in the spec 21:45:45 (depends on the method combination, of course) 21:46:33 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Puf!] 21:47:00 Shaftoe [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096725400.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 21:48:10 Joreji [~thomas@71-255.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 21:48:22 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:40 Shaftoe pasted "untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98112 21:48:51 any comments on that piece of code appreciated 21:49:34 -!- fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:50:10 what's that :stream stream at the end? 21:50:41 instead of if+progn use cond 21:51:00 Or when 21:51:00 tcr: I think it's vestigial. like an appendix. =) I will remove that, tahnks. 21:51:12 In find-next, why both start and end? 21:51:53 nyef: is the end tag. I need to replace everything between. That's why I get the location of the end tag 21:52:02 -!- Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:52:04 nyef: not sure if that's what you were asking? 21:52:05 Oh, sorry, missed the diffference there. 21:55:56 so otherwise, the technique is appropriate for lisp? 21:56:00 I think I'd split each of your LABELS functions into separate top-level functions, have FIND-NEXT accumulate a result instead of mutating TAGS, and... Well, at that point the need for the LET around the labels goes away, along with the SETF... 21:56:18 pixpop [~pixpop@166.205.138.204] has joined #lisp 21:56:29 -!- slash_ [~Unknown@whgeh0250.cip.uni-regensburg.de] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:57:03 Shaftoe: a docstring would be nice 21:57:22 Using LOOP and destructuring in CHUNK-OUT would be nice. 21:57:23 ryepup: duly noted 21:58:13 Shaftoe: write-string can take a :start argument, no need for subseq there.. I find the approach hacky (strings, yuck) and the recursion unnecessary 21:58:17 hybrid_mind [~hybrid_mi@unaffiliated/hybrid-mind/x-023851] has joined #lisp 21:58:29 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 21:58:36 -!- alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:59:12 enthymeme [~kraken@130.166.209.12] has joined #lisp 21:59:24 adeht: the recursion part isn't necessarily something I want or need either. it just happened that way. However, I don't quite know how I'd handle this task without getting elbow deep into strings. 21:59:38 -!- hybrid_mind [~hybrid_mi@unaffiliated/hybrid-mind/x-023851] has left #lisp 21:59:42 Shaftoe: regular expressions might help out 21:59:43 I'd also try to avoid the other subseq (say, using position-if-not) 22:00:02 which is part of what I'm wondering: the usage of streams etc. I've assumed it's quicker to send to a stream than to rebuild a string 22:00:06 ryepup: I would consider this "solution" worse 22:00:09 or mutate a stream 22:00:20 s/stream/string 22:00:53 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 22:01:27 quodlibetor [~user@ool-45723726.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:02:05 -!- quodlibetor [~user@ool-45723726.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:02:13 alright. v2 coming up 22:02:51 Shaftoe: should follow nyef's advice and separate the (start end content) building from chunking out to stream 22:02:55 fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 22:03:19 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.12.21] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:03:33 adeht: you mean destructuring-bind, right? 22:03:41 Shaftoe: no 22:04:25 -!- pixpop [~pixpop@166.205.138.204] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:04:31 the comment before: "I think I'd split each of your LABELS functions ..." 22:04:31 No, I'm not advocating destructuring-bind, I'm advocating using LOOP. 22:04:33 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:04:54 ok. and collecting the results 22:05:10 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:05:13 I mean a function that takes the input and hash and returns a list of (start end content) structures, which you call "tags", and one that takes an input and such a list and chunks out ("sublis" kind) 22:05:15 I'm assuming this is stylistically better. (not necessarily a performance thing) 22:05:17 What results? You're using write-string, which is side-effective. 22:05:49 nyef: results = "tags" 22:05:53 (Okay, in find-next you should be returning values, but that doesn't need to use destructuring.) 22:06:09 -!- varjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:07:16 nyef: as an aside though, I'm going to leave my labels inside this function but still do as you had said and remove the outer let 22:07:20 -!- fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:07:34 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.69.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:07:36 Shaftoe: also, you don't need to build that list of tags, instead have a mapping function and pass it the code to chunk out a "tag" 22:07:42 and generate the tags from find-next 22:09:22 (let ((chunk-position 0)) (map-tags (lambda (start end content) ... deal with it ...) input hash)) 22:09:57 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@pool-70-19-75-48.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:10:04 or perhaps a bit differently 22:10:20 quodlibetor [~user@ool-45723726.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:10:36 dnolen [~dnolen@pool-70-19-75-48.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:10:55 Alright gentlemen. I have to run out now. I will return tonight with an updated version and see what you guys have to say. 22:10:57 Thanks for the input 22:13:26 Shaftoe: I also suggest to use a better naming, e.g., "expansion" when you mean expansion 22:13:31 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:14:12 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 22:15:14 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:15:21 -!- kejsaren1 [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:15:23 ryepup: please meditate on http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3182471178876789@naggum.net.html :) 22:21:20 wormphlegm [wormphlegm@c-24-17-108-64.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:22:40 fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 22:23:24 ahh, I see 22:24:00 I was thinking with my terrible enterprise UML diagram hell mind when considering Lisp objects 22:24:12 there is a lot of good documentation for Lisp. 22:25:24 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.189] has joined #lisp 22:27:38 -!- fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:30:15 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [] 22:30:21 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 22:31:30 ilikpizza [~user@ares.nomads.utk.edu] has joined #lisp 22:31:34 -!- debiandebian [~chatzilla@ntszok008047.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2/20100222071121]] 22:31:47 What is the difference between #'(lambda ...) and (lambda ...)? 22:31:56 They seem to return the same thing. 22:32:00 -!- quodlibetor [~user@ool-45723726.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:34:02 ilikpizza: (lambda ...) expands to (function (lambda ...)) 22:34:23 debiandebian [~chatzilla@ntszok008047.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 22:35:32 ilikpizza: #'... is just a shorthadn for (function ...) .. lambda is a macro, function is a special operator that can take a lambda expression 22:35:55 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 22:37:44 ilikpizza: That said, there are -two- places in standard CL where you may use (lambda ...) and not #'(lambda ...). 22:37:56 You are not likely to find these places by accident. 22:38:08 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:13 -!- blandest [~blandest@79.112.109.113] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:39:44 nyef: just two? 22:39:57 fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 22:40:42 adeht: That I'm aware of, yeah. 22:40:47 (I assume you mean restart-case and function?) 22:40:51 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:40:59 restart-case might have been one, yes. 22:41:18 there's also quote of course ;) 22:41:31 And I don't think you can do (#'(lambda (x) (+ x 2)) 3) => 5. 22:41:37 well, you can use #'(lambda ...) there but it's different ;) 22:42:15 nyef: ah yes 22:44:02 -!- milanj [~milanj_@77.46.202.208] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:44:41 -!- Ibex_twin [~lars@a213-22-76-91.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:44:47 -!- fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:44:54 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:45:01 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:45:54 -!- eugu [~Miranda@212.1.246.237] has quit [Quit: eugu] 22:46:26 -!- felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:46:32 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 22:46:51 So the only difference is that #'(lambda ...) doesn't work in some cases? 22:48:07 no, there's also some pragmatic difference.. i.e. shadowing function/lambda, changing macro function for #'... 22:48:29 Ah, I see it. 22:48:32 but in everyday use, it's more a matter of style 22:48:57 (lambda ..) expands into (function (lambda)) 22:49:00 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 22:49:00 the lambda macro was added late to Common Lisp, so some oldies use #'(lambda ...) 22:49:13 personally I use (lambda ...) 22:49:13 but lambda is special inside the (function ...) form 22:49:16 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:49:26 ilikpizza: yeah 22:49:51 Alright; Thanks. 22:50:25 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 22:51:00 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Client Quit] 22:51:11 adeht: Actually, that doesn't appear to be true. It looks like it was removed from Common Lisp early on and then re-added later. 22:51:25 Ibex_twin [~lars@a213-22-76-91.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 22:51:32 I could, of course, be wrong about this. 22:51:39 nyef: maybe, I don't know about a removal 22:52:29 I remember Norvig mentions the macro in PAIP and saying that if CL had it he'd use it (the book was written in 1991/1992, I believe) 22:53:19 Mmm. Maybe I'm wrong, and it actually hails from an older tradition. 22:54:30 page 783: "[shows the lambda macros] If this were part of the Common Lisp standard, I would gladly use it. But because it is not, I have avoided it, on the grounds that it can be confusing." 22:54:47 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@pool-70-19-75-48.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 22:55:01 rabuf [~user@ip68-230-168-93.mc.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:55:29 *ehu* is not an oldie but uses #' a lot: it shows I mean the anonymous function 22:55:46 I think the `lambda' part if about anonymous function :) 22:56:00 right. 22:56:02 #' shows that you expect a function name or a lambda expression afterwards 22:56:06 I'm... not sure which I use... 22:56:26 adeht: that's what I use #' for 22:56:45 in my code #'car and #'(lambda ..) go in the same places 22:57:01 yep 22:57:18 I prefer the minor inconsistency of using #'car and (lambda ...) 22:57:26 Okay, checking my two most recent projects shows that I'm using bare lambda universally. 22:57:47 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:57:49 fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 22:58:01 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 22:59:46 -!- Ibex_twin [~lars@a213-22-76-91.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:00:33 I don't think it's inconsistent. something like (compose a b) wouldn't start with #' 23:00:54 what can i do as an individual, about ACTA? 23:01:12 ilikpizza: that's because the form will return a function 23:01:45 gonzojive_ [~red@c-67-188-5-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:01:48 (defun foo () #'(lambda () (+ 3 5))) 23:01:52 (foo) 23:01:59 is very different from 23:02:01 #'foo 23:02:02 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:02:03 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-2-149-199.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:02:07 both are functions 23:02:25 plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-27-66.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 23:02:25 sorry; both return function 23:02:37 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:03:02 -!- fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:03:25 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 23:03:55 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:04:14 -!- Joreji [~thomas@71-255.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:04:42 billstclair [~billstcla@dsl-65-219-212-221.taconic.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:42 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@dsl-65-219-212-221.taconic.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:04:42 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 23:04:51 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:04:55 You mean that (funcall (lambda () (+ 3 5))) is very different from (funcall (foo))? 23:04:58 well the special operator function either refers to a function by name, or refers to/creates a function/closure from a lambda-expression 23:05:05 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:05:33 Joreji [~thomas@71-255.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 23:05:48 ilikpizza: the compose form does neither if compose is a function: then the form is one of function call 23:06:07 ilikpizza: if it's a macro, then sure, it's like the lambda macro 23:07:02 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 23:07:36 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 23:08:41 ilikpizza: either way, the special operator function will be directly or indirectly used 23:08:51 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:09:49 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-2-149-199.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:10:04 ilikpizza: #'foo == (function foo) 23:10:28 ilikpizza: (foo) --> (function (lambda () (+ 3 5))) 23:10:35 ehu: You earlier point was that #'(lambda ..) is nice because it mirrors other uses of passing functions. 23:10:45 yes? 23:10:49 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 23:11:18 but I've not seen anyone, with the exception of pjb, use (function foo) :) 23:11:34 ilikpizza: right: (mapcar #'car my-list) 23:11:52 -!- Soulman [~kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:11:53 (mapcar #'(lambda (x) (do-something x)) my-list) 23:13:11 so I suppose if you want to be consistent and unlike ehu, you'd use (lambda ...) and (function ...) 23:13:14 right, but (mapcar (compose x y) list) follows the same pattern. 23:13:32 All I was saying. 23:13:49 ilikpizza: not really: that uses the return value of a function call as the iteration function 23:13:58 personally I choose to use (lambda ...) and #'..., a minor inconsistency, but consistently used 23:14:04 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:14:05 unless compose is a macro 23:14:21 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 23:15:29 right. 23:15:56 fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 23:18:26 ilikpizza: I can see consistency in ehu's approach, since he doesn't speak about function calling forms or macro forms, but of function names and lambda-expressions.. if you want syntactic consistency with those you'd use (function function-name) and (lambda ...) 23:18:53 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 23:18:53 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 23:20:18 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:20:27 Yeah, I guess I use macros-that-create-functions enough that #' doesn't give me a useful visual clue. 23:20:35 -!- fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:21:19 ilikpizza: or (function (lambda ...) :) 23:21:53 (smiley saves the day by filling in for missing parenthesis) 23:22:02 nice 23:22:54 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:25:20 Alright, thanks people. 23:25:21 -!- ilikpizza [~user@ares.nomads.utk.edu] has left #lisp 23:25:52 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:26:37 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 23:26:44 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@rrcs-24-103-21-79.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 23:27:12 I do think there's some elegance in using (function ...) over #'..., reduces the amount of microsyntactic clutter but increases verbosity.. too much clutter is one reason why Clojure isn't so interesting to me. 23:31:22 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:31:40 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 23:33:14 fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 23:34:14 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@HSI-KBW-078-042-205-245.hsi3.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:35:02 There's also some sheer utility in using ' instead of #' when you have a named function, as the extra level of indirection allows for redefinition. 23:35:26 yes I used that many times 23:35:49 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-138.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:36:36 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483AEE9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:36:36 but generally I pass a function if I don't need such indirection 23:37:36 -!- fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:40:40 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:47:37 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:48:04 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:48:10 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 23:49:51 -!- konr [~konrad@201.82.136.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:51:31 fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has joined #lisp 23:56:02 -!- benny [~benny@i577A12A6.versanet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:56:25 -!- fgtech [fgtech@193.219.39.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:57:09 -!- stray_hound__ [~stray@c-24-245-50-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: stray_hound__] 23:59:18 -!- TR2N [email@89.180.209.116] has left #lisp 23:59:21 stray_hound__ [~stray@c-24-245-50-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:59:41 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]