00:00:23 Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 00:02:15 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:21b:63ff:fe96:e1ff] has joined #lisp 00:04:58 lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@200.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 00:07:53 anair_84 [~anair_84@ip68-108-251-45.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:09:36 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483C413.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:13:17 -!- nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:23:23 -!- troussan [~user@c-71-195-63-115.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:26:34 quidnunc [~user@70.49.123.43] has joined #lisp 00:29:10 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c-1bb4e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:39:35 -!- brookeGarcia [~brookeGar@modemcable136.252-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:39:40 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:40:22 brookeGarcia [~brookeGar@dsl-146-250.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 00:40:54 David-A [~David-A@c-f325e755.021-165-73746f23.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 00:42:28 -!- TDT [~user@173-17-83-225.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:44:44 Good night. 00:44:47 -!- nurv [nurv@62.32.128.30] has quit [] 00:49:16 Makoryu [~vt920@97-123-200-129.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:52:33 parolang` [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 00:56:23 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.222.5] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 00:57:37 -!- pookleblinky [~pooklebli@cpe-67-252-140-159.buffalo.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 00:58:25 pookleblinky [~pooklebli@cpe-67-252-140-159.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:01:47 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:02:53 -!- Kustnamenkloate [titan@unaffiliated/appetite] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:07:12 sbahra [~sbahra@c-68-33-18-207.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:09:38 -!- quidnunc [~user@70.49.123.43] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:13:12 Riviera [~Riviera@2002:d45b:fb92::1] has joined #lisp 01:15:12 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 01:21:05 derrida [~derrida@unaffiliated/deleuze] has joined #lisp 01:23:16 lithper2_ [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:23:55 -!- lithper2_ [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:25:28 -!- gz [Clozure@A29EAA3E.23F5A41C.33EE07A1.IP] has quit [Quit: gz] 01:25:29 -!- gz [~gz@12.154.28.10] has quit [Quit: gz] 01:25:51 rabuf` [~user@ip68-230-168-93.mc.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:26:00 -!- rabuf [~user@ip68-230-168-93.mc.at.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:28:45 -!- parolang` [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:29:54 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:30:35 -!- ejs [~eugen@109.167.119.165] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:40:24 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-252-169-2.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 01:40:37 tcr: I get much saner results now that nanosleep is worked around. 01:40:53 We get decent test results even with unfair spinlocks for mutexes and dummy condvars. 01:41:48 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 01:47:51 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 01:50:55 Xantoz [~hejhej@c-50b6e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 01:53:27 -!- poincare101 [~poincare1@c-174-58-20-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:54:54 -!- fihi09``` [~user@pool-96-224-46-250.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:54:58 -!- potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-5eea0d86-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [] 01:55:57 debiandebian [~chatzilla@ntszok008047.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:56:36 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:21b:63ff:fe96:e1ff] has quit [Quit: palter] 01:57:09 maden_ [~brookeGar@dsl-146-250.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 01:58:33 -!- maden_ is now known as maden 01:59:10 -!- brookeGarcia [~brookeGar@dsl-146-250.aei.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:59:22 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c-50b6e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:03:02 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:03:33 -!- Trystam is now known as Tristam 02:05:05 dys` [~andreas@krlh-5f7361c6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 02:07:44 -!- dys [~andreas@krlh-5f7248ce.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:08:29 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:10:08 Lis [~Lis@dialbs-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 02:12:35 Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 02:13:05 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:14:04 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 02:14:45 fihi09 [~user@pool-96-224-46-250.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:18:16 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 02:20:20 -!- Makoryu [~vt920@97-123-200-129.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Absquatulandus sum] 02:20:50 totally awesome I switched to vs2010 release today.... 02:20:59 it's really fast 02:21:07 does it finally support lisp? 02:21:26 it can with a little effort 02:21:37 I just read about custom language services 02:22:49 fusss [~kumi@li63-187.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 02:23:36 is there some kind of trick used to avoid splicing "NIL" into back-quoted forms? 02:23:52 I have an intricate xml generating macro that takes an optional argument 02:24:03 fusss: ,@(and `(...)) 02:24:16 (and ... `(...)), that is. 02:24:17 hmmmm 02:24:29 lemme try that 02:25:27 where would you put that? should i wrap the top-most backquote in AND? 02:25:41 -!- christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:27:36 `(.... ,@(and condition `(stuff-to-splice))) 02:28:51 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 02:30:30 \o/ 02:31:01 christoph_debian [christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 02:31:08 -!- David-A [~David-A@c-f325e755.021-165-73746f23.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has left #lisp 02:35:39 anyone know of a mid-sized open source library that puts the condition system to good use? i.e. a nice condition heirarchy, and condition objects to communicate well 02:35:59 i can't think anymore: the clever way to do (delete-if test list :count 1) but also to return the deleted element? 02:37:56 stassats`: do it in the predicate? 02:38:35 and what i would do with it? put in a closure? 02:39:43 (let (deleted) (delete-if (lambda (x) (and test (push x deleted))) list :count 1)) ? 02:40:55 i'm not sure anymore what i meant by "clever" 02:41:25 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 02:41:49 nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has joined #lisp 02:42:55 and why i rejected that variant before asking that question, clearly, i can't think anymore 02:43:39 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@pool-70-19-69-201.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 02:43:42 debiandebian_ [~chatzilla@ntszok008047.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:43:55 Xantoz [~hejhej@c-50b6e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 02:46:27 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:49:50 Probably due to extreme cruftiness -- why not just write a suitable function? 02:50:56 Zhivago: looks suitable to me! 02:52:17 dnolen [~dnolen@pool-70-19-69-201.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:53:22 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 02:53:27 (handler-case (sb-ext:with-timeout 0.2 (sleep 10)) (sb-ext:timeout ())) does cons, anything i can do about it? 02:53:36 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:54:09 I think the condition handling stuff might all cons. 02:54:59 this is called many times in a loop 02:55:30 hoist the handler out of the loop? 02:55:48 Also, try to use deadlines? 02:56:34 konr [~konrad@187.106.49.73] has joined #lisp 03:00:11 basically, i need sb-thread:condition-wait but to run some function periodically while it waits 03:00:34 -!- Bobrobyn [~rsmith05@CPE0015e9d40d4f-CM001ac30e9df0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:01:11 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:01:54 there's always the classic: spawn another thread (: 03:02:23 -!- PuffTheMagic_ is now known as ZsocTheMagic 03:03:37 -!- ZsocTheMagic is now known as egaudet 03:04:13 -!- egaudet is now known as ghost_of_egaudet 03:04:58 -!- debiandebian [~chatzilla@ntszok008047.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 03:05:13 -!- ghost_of_egaudet is now known as scsiraider 03:06:01 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:06:10 -!- maden [~brookeGar@dsl-146-250.aei.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:10:42 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 03:10:58 -!- egn [~egn@li101-203.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:13:36 -!- rabuf` [~user@ip68-230-168-93.mc.at.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:15:12 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-26-162.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:15:53 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-25-238.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 03:17:44 hhuu [~hhuu@opensuse/member/xwhu] has joined #lisp 03:17:48 -!- hhuu [~hhuu@opensuse/member/xwhu] has quit [Client Quit] 03:21:47 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:21:59 -!- _KY_ [YKY@unaffiliated/-ky-/x-0649748] has quit [Quit: flip: back to simulation] 03:22:13 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.89.153] has joined #lisp 03:23:26 -!- debiandebian_ is now known as debiandebian 03:27:30 -!- Guthur [~Michael@host213-122-221-177.range213-122.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Computer says no] 03:29:16 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 03:31:26 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.92.179.204] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:33:22 -!- spoofy [~spoof@78.31.74.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:45:59 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:52:56 (sb-ext:with-timeout 0.3 (/ 0)) gets "WARNING: Starting a select without a timeout while interrupts are disabled." printed, is that normal? 03:55:56 when-multiple-value 03:56:19 sorry about that 03:57:41 boundp is just bad 03:57:51 how so? 03:58:30 i was trying (bound (accessor instance)) 03:58:45 (boundp (slot-value instnace 'slot)) 03:58:50 clhs slot-boundp 03:58:50 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_slt_bo.htm 03:59:11 potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f66758c-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 03:59:20 stassats: cheers! 04:02:41 spoofy [~spoof@78.31.74.25] has joined #lisp 04:03:47 -!- Lis [~Lis@dialbs-092-079-130-087.static.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 04:06:00 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:06:08 -!- cYmen2_ [ujasp@rzstud5.stud.uni-karlsruhe.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:07:01 what is the name of the lisp cafe freenode channel again? 04:07:04 i need to ask some newb q's 04:07:29 #lispcafe? 04:07:40 oh jesus, was insisting on - in the name 04:07:42 danke 04:08:17 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 04:08:18 palter_ [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:21b:63ff:fe96:e1ff] has joined #lisp 04:08:18 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:08:18 -!- palter_ is now known as palter 04:10:11 -!- Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:10:12 holycow: #lisp should be OK too 04:10:34 i pretty much treat it as my rubber duckie 04:10:49 i was asked specificially not to ask in #lisp :) haha 04:11:10 its more specific to my level of newbieness tho, i'm not a programmer so i ask some really basic stuff that ought to be obvious i guess 04:11:15 this handler-case/with-timeout conses more than 200MB in about 10 minutes 04:11:26 in slime, that is 04:12:36 not being a programmer doesn't mean asking basic questions 04:13:22 Good morning! 04:14:36 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:14:42 morgen, beach 04:14:46 -!- mgm [~mgm@p84-72.acedsl.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:18:52 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.89.153] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:23:02 easyE [aaGTdZretn@panix3.panix.com] has joined #lisp 04:28:09 -!- derrida [~derrida@unaffiliated/deleuze] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2-dev] 04:29:06 c|mell: hi 04:30:26 -!- spiaggia [~user@armadillo.labri.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:31:09 spiaggia [~user@armadillo.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 04:32:13 Phoodus [foo@174-26-247-120.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:40:51 -!- drforr [~drforr@pool-173-58-135-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:45:28 Makoryu [~vt920@97-123-193-91.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:46:08 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 04:46:09 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:21b:63ff:fe96:e1ff] has quit [Quit: palter] 04:49:38 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 04:52:40 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-opnavpdcjczjyjsh] has joined #lisp 04:57:51 ubii [~ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has joined #lisp 04:59:01 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 05:04:33 freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 05:05:16 ejs [~eugen@109.167.119.165] has joined #lisp 05:07:45 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@72.27.205.90] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:13:04 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-34-27-96.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 05:14:56 fiveop [~fiveop@g229242167.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 05:15:07 -!- hagabaka [~quassel@unaffiliated/hagabaka] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:17:16 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@c-68-33-18-207.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:19:49 sdqali [~sdqali@180.151.32.194] has joined #lisp 05:20:40 jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has joined #lisp 05:21:12 -!- jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has quit [Client Quit] 05:26:30 drforr [~drforr@pool-173-58-135-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:30:40 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 05:32:53 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-88-107.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:37:06 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 05:38:31 fisxoj_ [~fisxoj@80.153.54.206] has joined #lisp 05:43:04 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:44:40 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has joined #lisp 05:45:49 hola 05:47:10 -!- huangjs` [~user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:47:41 shizzy0 [~shane@adsl-71-142-63-93.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:49:25 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-88-107.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 05:49:45 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-134-199.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:50:09 merl15_ [~merl@188-22-166-4.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 05:50:14 -!- pookleblinky [~pooklebli@cpe-67-252-140-159.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:50:45 -!- varjagg is now known as varjag 05:53:39 pookleblinky [~pooklebli@cpe-67-252-140-159.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:54:35 ThomasI [~thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 05:56:29 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:58:15 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:01:13 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:01:13 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.45] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:04:11 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@ip68-108-251-45.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:04:27 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:07:50 hello wolgo 06:07:50 echo-area [~zhujun@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 06:07:55 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:10:18 wolgo: How is learning Lisp coming? 06:10:33 user3479 [~Dylan@c-98-255-202-231.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:12:59 -!- user3479 [~Dylan@c-98-255-202-231.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 06:13:39 -!- dys` is now known as dys 06:15:29 toekutr_ [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:15:34 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:15:37 -!- toekutr_ [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:15:40 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 06:16:02 -!- fisxoj_ [~fisxoj@80.153.54.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:19:34 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@pool-70-19-69-201.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 06:20:19 -!- sdqali [~sdqali@180.151.32.194] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:20:25 -!- ubii [~ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:20:40 sdqali [~sdqali@180.151.32.194] has joined #lisp 06:21:33 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.66.233] has joined #lisp 06:22:22 -!- daniel__ is now known as daniel 06:22:33 dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:25:02 beach: it is fun 06:25:05 I like it. 06:25:15 Although I need to figure out how to install CL:PCRE 06:25:24 or write my own string-to-list 06:25:44 -!- merl15_ [~merl@188-22-166-4.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:25:53 -!- ThomasI [~thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit [Quit: Bye Bye!] 06:25:54 I like this language a lot so far. 06:25:59 What I have learned at least. 06:26:32 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 06:27:15 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 06:28:30 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.66.233] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:29:20 wolgo: string-to-list? 06:29:55 split-string? 06:30:01 minion: split-sequence 06:30:02 split-sequence: SPLIT-SEQUENCE (formerly known as PARTITION) is a member of the Common Lisp Utilities family of programs, designed by community consensus. http://www.cliki.net/split-sequence 06:30:18 wolgo: though figuring out on your own would be beneficial 06:30:37 i mean, writing it 06:30:52 -!- abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:32:21 abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has joined #lisp 06:33:38 abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 06:33:45 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 06:36:13 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:37:21 konr1 [~konrad@187.106.49.73] has joined #lisp 06:38:34 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-opnavpdcjczjyjsh] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:38:46 -!- konr [~konrad@187.106.49.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:40:27 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-soovapvlvhsleytu] has joined #lisp 06:40:32 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-soovapvlvhsleytu] has quit [Client Quit] 06:40:37 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-yqhsdqpkpipikjmf] has joined #lisp 06:40:42 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-yqhsdqpkpipikjmf] has quit [Client Quit] 06:40:48 yeah 06:41:04 I think I can figure it out if I use loop. 06:41:38 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:42:36 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ortcopdxaifvyczy] has joined #lisp 06:42:40 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ortcopdxaifvyczy] has quit [Client Quit] 06:43:04 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 06:43:35 nunb [~nundan@122.162.138.14] has joined #lisp 06:44:29 -!- konr1 [~konrad@187.106.49.73] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:44:45 konr [~konrad@187.106.49.73] has joined #lisp 06:45:01 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:46:47 -!- dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 06:48:24 -!- ejs [~eugen@109.167.119.165] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 06:49:42 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-gndpgvvmakmoityb] has joined #lisp 06:50:36 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-gndpgvvmakmoityb] has left #lisp 06:51:07 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-cxjhyhjacbvbeeqj] has joined #lisp 06:52:30 dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:56:56 -!- abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:57:21 konr1 [~konrad@187.106.49.73] has joined #lisp 06:57:41 -!- lichtblau [~user@77-22-100-58-dynip.superkabel.de] has left #lisp 06:58:10 lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-107-225.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:00:16 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-135-10.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: night] 07:00:19 abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has joined #lisp 07:01:09 -!- konr [~konrad@187.106.49.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:01:12 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 07:01:36 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:01:45 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 07:02:53 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-20-131.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 07:03:45 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 07:04:07 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:05:21 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:06:35 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@g229242167.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 07:06:41 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 07:09:45 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@12.71.56.2] has quit [Quit: galaxywatcher] 07:10:02 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7542b0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:14:48 attila_lendvai [~ati@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 07:15:20 aack [~user@a83-163-241-74.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:17:21 ASau` [~user@77.246.231.13] has joined #lisp 07:20:20 -!- pinterface [~pinterfac@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has left #lisp 07:20:26 |Soulman| [~kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 07:23:28 vtl [~user@nat/redhat/x-xygcfjimuyltlmpw] has joined #lisp 07:27:28 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 07:27:28 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:29:46 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:33:09 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:33:55 ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has joined #lisp 07:34:14 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:34:32 jdz_ [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 07:42:55 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 07:43:21 bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has joined #lisp 07:45:16 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 07:51:50 jgracin [~jgracin@dh111-186.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 07:56:29 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:56:32 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-rqzociuzezviirbc] has joined #lisp 07:58:08 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:58:16 -!- nunb [~nundan@122.162.138.14] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:58:48 nunb [~nundan@122.162.138.14] has joined #lisp 07:59:17 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:00:54 fiveop [~fiveop@dfn425.rz.tu-ilmenau.de] has joined #lisp 08:00:58 -!- glogic [~rm@97.76.48.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:01:15 glogic [~rm@97.76.48.98] has joined #lisp 08:02:47 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 08:04:33 ejs [~eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 08:05:19 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:06:10 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 08:09:37 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:09:47 -!- ejs [~eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:11:58 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:14:09 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 08:14:11 ejs [~eugen@nat.ironport.com] has joined #lisp 08:17:57 -!- Makoryu [~vt920@97-123-193-91.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:18:43 Makoryu [~vt920@97-123-193-91.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 08:18:55 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-34-27-96.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:20:19 -!- Makoryu [~vt920@97-123-193-91.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:26:56 alama [~alama@a95-95-128-109.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 08:28:30 hlavaty [~user@77-22-100-58-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:29:03 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:30:19 -!- gigamonk` [~gigamonke@adsl-99-24-218-102.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:30:59 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:35:01 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:35:53 Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-112-99.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:37:45 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 08:41:16 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 08:46:53 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.73.124] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:50:27 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0090-205-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 08:51:10 -!- alama [~alama@a95-95-128-109.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: alama] 08:54:42 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0090-205-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:59:27 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:00:27 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:00:50 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0090-205-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 09:03:24 huangjs [~user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has joined #lisp 09:06:30 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 09:06:37 Yuuhi [benni@p5483A854.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:06:42 -!- huangjs [~user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:07:06 -!- fusss [~kumi@li63-187.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:11:50 huangjs [~user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has joined #lisp 09:19:35 lichtblau: herep 09:20:03 hi 09:20:36 Guthur [~Michael@213.122.221.177] has joined #lisp 09:21:00 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:21:13 lichtblau: hi, i have an encoding problem with commonqt, i'm getting from qt proper strings, but when sending strings to qt they become garbled 09:22:21 i see that it does encode from utf-16, but doesn't seem to do vice versa 09:24:20 that's all with non-ascii strings, obviously 09:24:31 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:26:05 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@122-57-20-131.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 09:27:19 stassats`: is that with or without my changes from yesterday? 09:27:22 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:27:44 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-20-131.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:27:57 i'm on HEAD, i vaguely remember that i saw that before 09:28:00 -!- blitz_ [~blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:28:06 or maybe i haven't seen it, very vague 09:28:07 blitz_ [~blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has joined #lisp 09:28:13 maus [~maus@222.253.105.196] has joined #lisp 09:28:23 setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:28:23 Good afternoon! 09:29:14 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:31:02 stassats`: aha, you're right. in sw_make_qstring it should read fromUtf8(str) rather than new QString(str). 09:32:58 freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 09:35:11 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 09:36:34 will you fix it? because i'm currently lost in commonqt and can't figure how to do that 09:38:15 -!- TR2N [email@89-180-139-45.net.novis.pt] has left #lisp 09:40:22 hello maus 09:40:54 udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-lubvwmadadazyprn] has joined #lisp 09:41:03 hello beach! :) 09:41:10 maus: As I understand both you and vng are going to Paris for the internship, right? 09:41:11 How are you doing? 09:41:20 maus: Way too busy I'm afraid. 09:41:26 beach: yes! :) 09:41:37 maus: That sounds exciting! 09:41:56 beach: :) 09:41:59 when do you go? 09:42:24 beach: in the beginning of this June. 09:42:31 Excellent! 09:42:58 beware of the foie gras 09:43:00 freiksenet1 [~freiksene@193.166.11.250] has joined #lisp 09:43:16 cmm: In Paris? Nah! 09:43:43 cmm: Snails, on the other hand... 09:44:00 But then they eat snails in Vietnam too. Very different though. 09:44:36 stassats`: I'll try to remember that when I do the next round of changes. 09:44:45 Until then, I think you only need to do this change in commonqt.cpp: 09:44:48 < return new QString(str); 09:44:52 > return QString::fromUtf8(str); 09:44:53 mmm, butter sauce 09:44:55 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 09:45:04 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:45:12 cmm: beware of the quality or the effect on your waistline 09:45:18 and run make to compile it. Also, check that your Lisp (i.e. CFFI) is set to UTF-8. 09:45:26 beach: we wish that we can have a trip to Bordeaux to visit you. :) 09:45:40 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 09:45:50 lichtblau: oh, i wasn't grepping *.cpp, no wonder i missed it 09:46:05 maus: That could be, and will be arranged. 09:46:26 maus: I'll be in HCM in june, but after that, we should definitely arrange something like that. 09:46:26 beach: yes, we love to! :) 09:47:09 beach: when will you come to HCM? beginning of June? 09:47:23 maus: End of may even. 09:47:40 beach: yes, :) 09:53:01 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-20-131.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 09:54:32 mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has joined #lisp 09:54:52 *beach* has lunch. 09:55:08 OmniMancer2 [~OmniMance@122-57-20-131.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 09:56:01 beach: as the time-table, we had class of "Conception Formelle 2" from Professor Pierre this morning, but it was canceled, he cannot take flight to HCM because of the volcano. How is the volcano now? 09:56:17 beach: have a good lunch! 09:56:34 :) 09:56:34 maus: It would seem the volcano is releasing an even bigger cloud of ash. 09:56:41 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@122-57-20-131.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:57:02 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-20-131.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:57:16 schme: it is terrible, can we see it from the sky? 09:59:05 maus: There have been some worries in Sweden that the ash would fall down on the ground and make the air here a bit.. not so good. But the sky seems clear, and all is well. some airports are opening up again. Just the volcano is still active, and releasing *more* ash than before. 09:59:19 This could even keep going for the whole year :) 10:00:03 -!- dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:00:04 -!- nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:00:24 schme: the whole year?! 10:01:40 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:01:41 maus: The last eruption in this specific volcano lasted for 3 years. 10:01:57 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 10:03:00 and the one before that I think 2 years. 10:03:06 ouch. 10:03:14 -!- abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:03:34 no plane trails in the sky for couple of years? i don't mind 10:03:36 alama [~alama@gw-e-U-EdII.nat.fct.unl.pt] has joined #lisp 10:03:37 would it keep transatlantic air travel dicy during such times? 10:03:55 stassats`: you might mind an end to air freight. 10:03:57 stassats`: It is very very bad. A lot of emergency transplantation organs, and ER helicopters are grounded. 10:04:05 yeah. 10:04:41 -!- alama [~alama@gw-e-U-EdII.nat.fct.unl.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 10:04:55 wonder if it will be a boon to ship and rail transport if it lasts. 10:05:01 and I guess the people up in northern sweden are a bit upset that they have to spend 12hrs on a train instead of 2hrs on a plane. :) 10:05:14 abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has joined #lisp 10:05:23 alama [~alama@gw-e-U-EdII.nat.fct.unl.pt] has joined #lisp 10:05:46 2hrs including check-in and check-out? 10:05:55 Adamant: I think a boon to truck transportation if anything. the railway network in europe tend to be a bit full. 10:05:57 stassats`: ya. 10:06:00 -!- alama [~alama@gw-e-U-EdII.nat.fct.unl.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:06:18 stassats`: for flying inside sweden. it is not a long check-in/check-out. 10:06:18 alama [~alama@193.136.122.17] has joined #lisp 10:06:29 it looks like the only reliable ways into Europe by air now are via the Iberian penninsula and Greece/Turke 10:06:36 is that roughly correct? 10:06:39 and i'm sure terrorists are involved in this eruption 10:07:36 Adamant: just in sweden we export goods worth about 50 000 000 euro daily with the planes, and import goods at the same rate.. and these are needed to keep random factories and what shit running. I'm sure they'll all reroute to railway/trucks. and this is just sweden.. small country - small economy. It must be huge amount of monies involved for germany/france/uk :) 10:07:52 stassats`: Maybe it is more that the icelandic people are pissed off at having to pay some fines :) 10:08:10 stassats`: I hate all the security nonsense of modern air travel, too, but not being able to fly planes over an area that expects them is bad juju for any country. 10:08:18 Adamant: into europe.. well you can fly from USA -> iceland if you want into europe ;) 10:08:35 schme: Iceland and the UK are Not Europe :P 10:08:41 Hmm.. 10:08:48 I kid 10:08:53 I think stockholm airport opened up today too. for flights to the north. 10:08:53 vng [~user@123.20.118.205] has joined #lisp 10:09:05 I guess it will close soon enough with this new cloud coming in :) 10:09:24 hello vng! 10:09:25 ugh. wish you folks weren't going through this crap. 10:09:32 computing in the cloud, yay! 10:09:36 hehehe. 10:09:46 hello maus. 10:10:14 stassats`: :)) 10:10:42 are there many volcanoes in the Europe? 10:10:54 my impression is that their deciding the risks are not that great 10:11:16 maus: No. Mostly on Iceland I think. and iceland is waaay far off in the ocean. 10:11:22 i only know vesuvius 10:11:27 a fairly large number of passengerless flights and at lower altitudes have been ongoing 10:11:38 *they're 10:12:00 stassats`: I wouldn't be surprised if there were some in Greece or Turkey 10:12:08 but I don't know of any offhand 10:12:14 prolly be back to normal by end of week 10:12:20 hope so. 10:12:24 oh ya they have 'em down south too. 10:12:31 wikipedia says "It is the only volcano on the European mainland to have erupted within the last hundred years" 10:12:52 ah. 10:13:03 isnt' that false? 10:13:04 ah. 10:13:45 then again, the US has Yellowstone and all that, which haven't erupted in the last 500+ years For Real, but will probably have one hell of an eruption when it does. 10:13:49 oh, you meant vesuvius 10:14:04 there are active volcanoes on islands, like Etna on Sicily 10:14:28 active, but not eruptive. (the classification is somewhat imprecise anyway) 10:14:57 so there is one in Greece, but looks to be on the islands part. 10:16:03 basically : http://www.volcano.si.edu/world/region.cfm?rnum=17 http://www.volcano.si.edu/world/region.cfm?rnum=01 . So, some around mediterranea, and a lot more in iceland (which is a very 'active' region, for volcanos and other things like geysers) 10:16:44 xinming_ [~hyy@218.73.136.74] has joined #lisp 10:17:25 i'm concerned about ecl'10 to get beck to topic somewhat... it's some 50 hours by train from here, which is not something i'm willing to take 10:18:41 great time for lisp hacking 10:18:46 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-30-82-253-170-96.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:19:38 -!- jdz_ [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit [Quit: Boot me gently] 10:19:42 -!- xinming [~hyy@125.109.76.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:19:51 billitch [~billitch@78.250.108.162] has joined #lisp 10:21:55 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:24:14 -!- leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:24:46 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 10:24:58 -!- jsoft___ [~user@203-114-169-183.eth.sta.inspire.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:25:39 billitch_ [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 10:26:40 why do people need in person interaction at physical meetings/conferences? 10:27:19 Beer, Mate and Bodylanguage. 10:27:22 to punch each other in the face 10:28:03 get away from home, huh? 10:28:35 -!- billitch [~billitch@78.250.108.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:28:35 -!- billitch_ is now known as billitch 10:29:09 JuanDaugherty: being in the fitness industry I get a lot more goodness out of physical meetings than anything else :) 10:29:17 :) 10:29:36 maybe they'll die out when really good video conf is ubiquitous 10:30:03 I don't think so 10:30:08 Not for my line of business I'm sure. But video conf seems a very good alternative for a lot of things. in theory. 10:30:24 theory lacks the whole.. getting together and conspire against the world, and going to strip clubs though. 10:30:26 But I can imagine some for of mixture of videoconference and physical conference 10:30:50 JuanDaugherty, being an asshole in a specific online argument hurts much less if you met the other person in real life before 10:31:05 i c 10:31:29 there was this film, "up in the air", air travel vs. teleconferencing was a major theme there 10:31:32 also, i can visit lisboa paying from pre-taxes money... :) 10:31:36 -!- abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:31:44 rtra [~rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #lisp 10:32:02 yes I saw that 10:32:10 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-45-82-65-185-111.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 10:34:33 I'm waiting for the dirigible to make a comeback. 10:34:35 HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:35:07 it did seem to turn out there was nothing underway of substance for a lisp OS in the sense of platform of function at or above the kernel level 10:35:27 cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 10:35:28 I think that a lisp OS would be a very bad idea, these days. 10:35:32 *a platform 10:35:43 abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has joined #lisp 10:35:46 wieso? 10:36:02 glurn pluz wogso. 10:36:31 k 10:36:41 p 10:37:32 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:37:42 jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 10:37:44 i agree if it's a low level concept like all the one's I've seen 10:38:15 In many respects the worst thing that happened to lisp was trying to reinvent the universe in its own image. 10:38:36 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 10:38:53 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 10:38:54 These days we're moving toward distributed message based systems to seems, and that's somewhere that lisp can actually play on a level field. 10:39:08 yes, it's especially dim to think you can replace low level OS infrastructure which is probably the hardest thing in computing to get established 10:39:23 Oh, that's actually very easy. 10:39:35 The only hard thing is writing a zillion device drivers. 10:39:40 exactly 10:39:52 easy to establish an empty framework 10:39:55 But with virtualization taking over that's also becoming less of a problem. 10:39:57 hard to populate it 10:40:08 ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 10:40:15 low-level os thing is not that hard now that we have virtualization everywhere 10:40:15 So, you've written your lisp os running in a VM with a nice standard driver set ... what now? 10:40:27 levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 10:42:17 yeah, that's just it, there's an equivocation on what a "lisp OS" would be. The thing I referred to and the thing implicit in your query are disjoint. 10:42:29 So, what do you mean by it? 10:44:23 i'd prefer to leave it at "higher level OS services" ATM, device drivers, booting and the like are what I've mostly seen pkgs concentrate on 10:44:27 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:44:57 For example? 10:46:45 i don't want to spam the channel with details of my project ideas 10:47:34 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:47:56 Fair enough and good luck. 10:49:23 Roughly how long is a process quantum on Linux? 10:49:54 nurv [ishtar@62.32.133.126] has joined #lisp 10:50:02 10-20 ms, iirc, but that's an old memory. 10:50:29 Morning. 10:50:53 gozek [~quassel@85.52.166.111] has joined #lisp 11:02:01 tcr: or ~1-10 ms depending on nice level and HZ. 11:03:20 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:06:28 CL shouldn't need an OS to be successful, other languages settle for VM's. 11:06:42 Sorry if I missed that point already. 11:09:05 dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:09:40 leo2007 [~leo@cpc1-cmbg13-0-0-cust596.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #lisp 11:13:53 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 11:19:41 pkhuong: int-syscall returns undefined-alien-function; what do I need to be able to do int-syscall? 11:20:01 egoz [~Egoz@114.79.55.216] has joined #lisp 11:22:11 tcr: int syscall of what? 11:22:22 -!- egoz [~Egoz@114.79.55.216] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:22:22 clock_gettime 11:22:56 egoz [~Egoz@114.79.55.216] has joined #lisp 11:23:27 Are you sure that function exists? 11:24:03 in what way exists? 11:24:28 Is available on your system. 11:25:04 maybe I have to add it to ldso-stubs.lisp 11:26:08 Maybe. 11:29:13 let's see.. 11:32:21 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:33:40 mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has joined #lisp 11:34:49 syscalls under linux are inline asm if I'm not mistaken 11:35:44 oh clock_gettime and clock_nanosleep need -lrt 11:36:28 -!- m4dnificent is now known as madnificent 11:36:46 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:36:56 sunwukong [~vukung@business-80-99-161-225.business.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 11:37:18 mal__: you need a function with an address none the less. 11:37:31 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 11:37:36 gz [~gz@12.154.28.10] has joined #lisp 11:37:53 Joreji [~thomas@90-144.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:40:56 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-cxjhyhjacbvbeeqj] has left #lisp 11:45:30 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 11:51:51 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:53:20 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:58:00 vng, maus: What are you doing at the moment with respect to the Sudoku game? 11:58:04 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 11:58:06 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:58:18 vng, maus: You need to work on connecting the gui and the algorithms. 11:58:28 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 11:58:41 vng, maus: For that, you need to read and understand the code of longkid. 11:59:10 vng, maus: I need to have a code that compiles and does something when run, even if it does the wrong thing. 12:00:03 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0090-205-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:00:04 vng, maus: longkid committed things that he has not even tried to execute. For instance he uses the `across' loop keyword to loop over a list, which is of course the result of replacing a vector by a list. 12:01:04 beach: now, we need longkid generate the array for us 12:01:30 vng, maus: Yes, be he is not quite able to do that yet, so you need to help him. 12:02:02 vng, maus: I suspect he is working with bad tools. I am not sure he uses SLIME all the time for instance. 12:02:41 -!- Riviera [~Riviera@2002:d45b:fb92::1] has left #lisp 12:03:11 beach: He use SLIME. But I don't know why his code is hard to read.. 12:04:15 vng: You will have to try. Ask him if you need to. 12:04:36 vng: We need to finish this project and start something else. 12:04:50 beach: yes 12:05:28 vng: If necessary, ask him to participate in a code review where you meet and he explains what he is doing. 12:05:30 -!- lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@200.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:06:11 vng: It is very hard for me to react on messages such as "I changed things, please check it" when no real effort has been made to make sure it does anything. 12:06:45 beach: I will ask him to explain his code 12:07:09 maus: You should try to be there as well. 12:07:21 beach: yes, sir! 12:07:34 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:08:34 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 12:08:36 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:09:10 -!- Joreji [~thomas@90-144.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:09:12 vng, maus: Either way, we need to start a new thing. We should do it right this time. First start a project on cl.net. Then make sure every commit compiles and runs. Let's also include unit tests (using, for instance, the lisp-unit testing frameworks). 12:10:16 vng, maus: So you need to decide what to work on next. Take a few days to thing about it, and feel free to ask here or on the mailing list how hard or easy it would be for you to do it. 12:10:16 *think 12:11:16 beach: yes. It takes time to understand longkid's code. 12:11:24 vng, maus: I am going to commit a few minor changes now, so make sure you do a git pull before making more changes. 12:11:26 beach: yes, sir! We will! 12:13:11 -!- freiksenet1 [~freiksene@193.166.11.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:15:52 If someone else here feels like helping us out by doing some code review, that would be great. If you can help out by helping us finish this project, that would be even better. 12:16:10 The most important part would be to give feedback to vng, maus, and longkid. 12:16:16 etate [~meta@mon69-4-82-228-201-242.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:16:16 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.] 12:16:25 mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has joined #lisp 12:16:27 It's the `sudoku' project on cl.net. 12:17:00 I'll be happy to answer questions about it here when I am around. 12:17:08 -!- alama [~alama@193.136.122.17] has quit [Quit: alama] 12:18:24 lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@200.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 12:19:10 Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 12:20:58 Joreji [~thomas@90-144.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:21:32 beach: we will ask you, and everybody in #lisp if we have some difficulties in using lisp-unit.. 12:22:16 alama [~alama@193.136.122.17] has joined #lisp 12:23:06 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 12:23:27 bah fuzzy completion brought my emacs to hang 12:27:28 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:27:30 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 12:28:41 attila_lendvai_ [~ati@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 12:28:55 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:29:10 -!- attila_lendvai_ is now known as attila_lendvai 12:30:31 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-rqzociuzezviirbc] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:34:52 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dfn425.rz.tu-ilmenau.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 12:38:36 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-zffrmnkdqhohhzrq] has joined #lisp 12:38:53 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:43:07 maus: I just pushed some more changes. Essentially, I am cleaning up the code a bit and I am adding comments so that it will be easier for you to understand. 12:43:13 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 12:44:22 beach: thank you very much! :) 12:44:32 -!- nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:44:40 maus: No problem. 12:45:36 maus: I will try to continue doing this for a while, now that I manages to use ssh to clone the repository, and I can easily push minor modifications. This means you have to make sure you pull the changes before you make major modifications to it. 12:46:43 -!- Joreji [~thomas@90-144.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:47:03 beach: yes 12:47:37 merl15_ [~merl@188-22-19-81.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 12:48:02 yangsx [~yangsx@123.120.6.249] has joined #lisp 12:48:51 beach: yes. 12:49:25 rrice [~rrice@76.211.14.95] has joined #lisp 12:51:15 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:51:17 fisxoj_ [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban2.inka-online.net] has joined #lisp 12:52:35 myu2_ [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 12:53:02 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0090-205-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 12:53:04 -!- myu2_ [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:53:26 myu2_ [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 12:53:43 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:56:17 davertron [~Dave@vt-sb-1.logicsupply.com] has joined #lisp 12:56:44 -!- Phoodus [foo@174-26-247-120.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:56:46 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 12:58:23 -!- Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:58:45 Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 13:01:26 -!- merl15_ [~merl@188-22-19-81.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:03:19 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:03:44 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 13:04:21 hello 13:07:19 hello fe[nl]ix! :) 13:07:35 hello maus 13:07:48 hey fe[nl]ix 13:08:00 maus, vng: pushed some more fixes. 13:08:09 hi beach 13:10:12 beach: thank you! :) 13:10:13 -!- myu2_ [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:10:47 -!- sdqali [~sdqali@180.151.32.194] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:10:55 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 13:13:47 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:14:52 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 13:15:52 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:19:05 kpreid [~kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 13:22:10 -!- oconnore_ [~oconnore_@thingy.cs.umass.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:22:29 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 13:22:32 TDT [~user@173-17-83-225.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 13:23:22 -!- echo-area [~zhujun@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:23:50 fiveop [~fiveop@g229242167.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:24:35 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-zffrmnkdqhohhzrq] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:24:41 -!- gozek [~quassel@85.52.166.111] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:24:58 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-pshfofipypzbhsie] has joined #lisp 13:26:38 -!- ejs [~eugen@nat.ironport.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:28:11 mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has joined #lisp 13:28:50 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:31:19 ejs [~eugen@77.222.151.102] has joined #lisp 13:33:58 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:34:09 Blkt [~user@160.80.129.101] has joined #lisp 13:34:16 -!- ejs [~eugen@77.222.151.102] has quit [Client Quit] 13:34:55 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 13:36:15 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 13:37:01 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 13:38:15 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 13:39:04 Joreji [~thomas@65-150.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:39:32 -!- OmniMancer2 [~OmniMance@122-57-20-131.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:40:00 -!- cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 13:40:31 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:42:06 brookeGarcia [~brookeGar@dsl-156-154.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 13:46:59 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-pshfofipypzbhsie] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:47:19 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-cimxoxvomighapcu] has joined #lisp 13:47:51 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:49:34 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 13:50:52 -!- jgracin [~jgracin@dh111-186.xnet.hr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:51:21 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 13:52:47 -!- konr1 [~konrad@187.106.49.73] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:53:12 konr [~konrad@187.106.49.73] has joined #lisp 13:56:34 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483A854.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:56:46 -!- rrice [~rrice@76.211.14.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:57:56 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:58:24 tsuru [~user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:58:25 blandest [~blandest@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 13:58:55 grouzen_ [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 13:59:46 rrice [~rrice@99.164.40.66] has joined #lisp 14:00:08 anyone here can tell me the opposite of \(?:\sw\|\s_\|\s\\) in emacs regexp? 14:01:16 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:01:42 felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has joined #lisp 14:01:42 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 14:01:47 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:01:59 smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:02:17 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 14:02:29 what do you mean by "the opposite"? 14:02:30 pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.26.176] has joined #lisp 14:03:22 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@87.246.26.176] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:03:43 anything that's not in \(?:\sw\|\s_\|\s\\) 14:05:31 -!- rrice [~rrice@99.164.40.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:05:53 something like (not ...) 14:07:04 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 14:07:04 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 14:08:39 carlocci [~nes@93.37.192.29] has joined #lisp 14:12:27 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:15:08 maus, vng: I just mailed you a suggestion for a new project. 14:15:25 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 14:15:31 maus, vng: Have you heard of the doodle.ch web site? 14:18:51 -!- dym [~dym@217.20.175.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:19:20 beach: I've just received your e-mails. 14:19:23 dym [~dym@217.20.175.226] has joined #lisp 14:19:35 -!- varjag is now known as varjagg 14:19:48 maus: I think it would be nice for you to learn some web programming with Lisp. 14:19:58 -!- gz [~gz@12.154.28.10] has left #lisp 14:20:03 beach: vng has just gone out for dinner. :) 14:20:19 This is late for Vietnamese dinner isn't it? 14:20:20 rrice [~rrice@76.211.6.129] has joined #lisp 14:20:44 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 14:20:51 beach: yes, but for us, it is often :) 14:21:02 because you are working late? 14:21:58 -!- yangsx [~yangsx@123.120.6.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:22:58 beach: because my and his family are getting used to eat late. our parents are a little bit busy with works. 14:23:09 I see. 14:23:19 beach: so the dinner time is a little bit late :) 14:24:35 -!- dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:24:41 beach: vng went out with his younger brother, his parents are not at home now :) 14:25:12 jfm3 [~user@216.156.98.230.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:29 Many Vietnamese people seem to work late. 14:26:01 Hello #lisp, I'm trying to get a copy of EEL (http://www.cliki.net/EEL). The Cliki links are bro ken. Anybody have it? 14:26:15 beach: I felt interested when reading your suggestion about web-based Lisp programs. We will discuss about these. 14:26:36 Sure, take your time. 14:27:12 -!- Joreji [~thomas@65-150.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:27:15 beach: I heard about 'doodle', but i've not taken a visit there, i will take a visit then :) 14:27:34 Me and my colleagues use it quite often. 14:28:00 -!- Blkt [~user@160.80.129.101] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:29:26 gz [~gz@12.154.28.10] has joined #lisp 14:31:21 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:33:08 Joreji [~thomas@65-150.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:33:13 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 14:33:47 -!- tcr [~tcr@host178.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:33:49 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:35:01 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:36:13 nipra [~nipra@115.118.252.228] has joined #lisp 14:36:43 -!- HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:40:03 jfm3: that must be Geoff Wozniak. look for his email and send him a message 14:40:29 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 14:40:37 fe[nl]ix: I poked around for an email address, but I didn't come up with anything. 14:40:52 alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 14:41:11 -!- gz [~gz@12.154.28.10] has left #lisp 14:42:15 -!- jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit [Quit: Boot me gently] 14:43:28 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.172.214.188] has joined #lisp 14:43:36 http://wozniak.ca/ did you try that? 14:43:44 tcr [~tcr@host178.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 14:43:56 beach: 'doodle' helps people to reserve an appointment easily!? :) 14:45:06 JuanDaugherty: Will check it out, thanks. 14:45:55 What can cause a delay of execution for 170ms? I think it should be no GC because I pushed something on *after-gc-hooks* to indicate a GC. The other thing that comes to mind is process context switch. 14:46:20 Is there a way to see how much time quantum one has left? 14:47:15 My problem is that a deadline is supposed to be shot in between that delay, and it seems the deadline is dropped after the delay 14:47:20 tcr: On a time sharing operating system, just about anything. There are "real time" patches for linux that will get you (mostly) bounded interrupt latency, but yeah. No, as far as I know, there's no way to ask the scheduler specific questions. 14:48:56 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:50:14 Are there other logic programming libraries for CL other than EEL and Screamer? 14:51:02 hagabaka [~quassel@cblmdm24-53-178-92.buckeyecom.net] has joined #lisp 14:51:02 -!- hagabaka [~quassel@cblmdm24-53-178-92.buckeyecom.net] has quit [Changing host] 14:51:02 hagabaka [~quassel@unaffiliated/hagabaka] has joined #lisp 14:53:20 maus: Yes, that's the point, but it is actually pretty tedious to use, so something better would be great. 14:54:00 maus: For instance, I'll like to be able to generate slots automatically, by giving the number of slots, the duration of each slot, and the spacing between them. 14:54:49 maus: That way, I could get 9:00 - 10:30, 9:30 - 11:00, 10:00 - 11:30, etc with very little effort. Currenly, one has to type them all in manually. 14:55:25 -!- ASau` [~user@77.246.231.13] has quit [Quit: off] 14:55:41 jfm3: Without having read the context, there are a few Prolog implementations on top of Lisp. 14:56:04 beach: yes :) 14:57:38 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 14:58:10 -!- Joreji [~thomas@65-150.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:58:22 beach: what are they? I want to make a database of rules like "x is a foo" "all foos are bars" and run a lisp function on all the bars. I'm having a hard time figuring out Screamer. I don't want to dig out On Lisp or SICP and write my own. 14:58:38 screamer adds non-determinism to lisp, not lp per se 14:58:56 Yes, it's a right angle. 14:59:04 you probably want prolog 15:00:23 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 15:00:41 Well, okay, but I want to be able to call Lisp functions on the query results. I'd rather not run a separate Prolog compiler. 15:00:57 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 15:01:28 jfm3: dig out PAIP, then. 15:01:42 -!- vtl [~user@nat/redhat/x-xygcfjimuyltlmpw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:01:50 *jfm3* cries. 15:02:54 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:03:34 jfm3: or get an ACL license. 15:03:46 *jfm3* cries. 15:04:00 davazp [~user@83.57.37.58] has joined #lisp 15:04:52 Joreji [~thomas@65-150.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:04:55 -!- grouzen_ [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:05:13 minion: prolog 15:05:14 prolog: Prolog is a programming language based around logical assertions. http://www.cliki.net/prolog 15:06:01 in particular, Xof's paiprolog 15:06:02 ooh. there are some links 15:06:07 Thanks! 15:08:39 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.172.214.188] has left #lisp 15:09:43 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:09:44 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-112-99.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:10:16 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 15:10:27 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-52.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:10:34 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 15:11:35 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 15:12:43 Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-112-99.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:14:48 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-22-147.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:14:53 what's the favorite flavor for web programming, I've got to code up something that gets data from clients via xml-rpc, puts it in a database, and serves pretty web pages with various views of the db contents. 15:15:52 *beach* is now convinced that relational databases are just wrong. 15:16:02 beach: how'd that happen? 15:16:06 the cliki lists many, many options. I don't have any restrictions on webserver or any of that. 15:16:27 Yuuhi [benni@p5483A854.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:16:54 sykopomp: Well, the relational model dates back quite some decades, and programming languages have evolved since. By using a relational model, you don't take advantage of that progress in language technology. 15:16:56 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-68-239.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 15:17:11 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:17:17 sykopomp: For instance, you can't have a list of things attached to an object in a relational database. 15:17:24 beach: you mean, it doesn't mix all that nicely with key/value-obsessed OOP? 15:17:33 ah 15:17:45 beach: they work well for some things 15:17:46 I believe there's multi-value DBMS 15:17:53 they are not necessarily suitable for storing objects 15:18:51 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-25-238.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:19:10 sykopomp: And it doesn't mix with OOP in that we can now program with object-identity in mind, whereas with RDBs, we have to manipulate explicit pointers. 15:19:54 storing tree-like structures in rdbs feels just wrong 15:20:11 Morning, folks. 15:20:19 rsynnott: So what would be an application that is advantageous for RDBs and not for OO? 15:20:23 hello gigamonkey 15:20:31 gigamonkey: hiya 15:20:33 beach: dumb tables of dumb data 15:20:42 straszhm: granted 15:21:03 fiveop: Yes, and things like information systems (for which RDBs are used extensively) manipulate trees of information. 15:21:09 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 15:21:23 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-112-99.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:21:24 key/value stores do give me a warm fuzzy feeling :) 15:21:25 fiveop: Did I say trees? I meant "arbitrary directed graphs". 15:21:31 beach: yep, big dumb tables which need to be linked a bit 15:21:36 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 15:21:42 rsynnott: 'a bit' 15:21:56 (or joined, rather) 15:21:57 sykopomp: What do you mean by key/value pairs in this context? 15:22:14 beach: document databases or similar 15:22:25 Still don't get it. 15:22:41 -!- Joreji [~thomas@65-150.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:22:44 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:23:18 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 15:23:18 beach: They tend to map more obviously to objects, but I guess they still don't solve the pointer thing... 15:23:42 sykopomp: I still don't know what you mean by it. Can you give one example, please? 15:24:04 beach: oh, you mean you don't know what document DBs are? I thought you were asking why I mentioned it. 15:24:15 sykopomp: I guess I don't know what a "document database is" no. 15:24:19 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:24:20 document DBs map keys to values, per document. 15:24:27 beach: e.g. CouchDB, MongoDB 15:24:32 imagine a database that's essentially a bunch of JSON objects with ids attached to them. 15:24:36 gigamonkey: don't know those. 15:24:49 ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has joined #lisp 15:24:56 OK, I guess I'll have to google for it. 15:25:08 You guys are too general to make sense. 15:25:26 beach: it's just one category of NoSQL. There's a few others. 15:25:32 there's graph databases, for example 15:25:51 Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-112-99.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:26:03 beach: basically CouchDB lets you store (via an HTTP protocol) "documents" which are really JSON data structures. (i.e. Javascript sexps) 15:26:10 Each document has a unique ID. 15:26:27 Fascinating. And this gives a "warm fuzzy feeling"? 15:26:33 yes. 15:26:34 And then the database lets you do "views" over the documents which are made up of map/reduce operations written in Javascript. 15:26:58 OO gave me pointers as unique IDs. Why do I need something else? 15:26:58 There's a view server for writing views in CL. 15:26:59 And it does some fancy on-the-fly indexing to make those map/reduce views not as terribly inefficient as it might sound. 15:27:15 mooglenorph: there's at least two. I wrote one of them ;D 15:27:15 Other than if I need to store them in a stupid external RDB of course. 15:27:20 beach: I don't think they're solving your problem, they're solving problems when you have large data sets. 15:27:21 I mean, you can actually write a view server in any language... 15:27:26 beach: dunno. Why didn't object database take off when they were all the rage? 15:27:29 jfm3: Oh, how so? 15:27:40 Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-179-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:27:40 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-179-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:27:40 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 15:27:40 sykopomp: ooo, which one? The one I know of is a bit grungey. 15:27:49 jfm3: I assume you don't mean "when your virtual memory system and OS is broken"? 15:27:53 mooglenorph: http://github.com/sykopomp/chillax 15:28:12 beach: Good luck! 15:28:14 gigamonkey: Why didn't Lisp take off. 15:28:14 mooglenorph: There's a view server in there that you can probably extract, but it's a general couchdb interface. 15:28:24 beach: fair point. 15:28:35 I haven't worked on it in a while, but I think most features of the view server are supported. 15:28:43 But, having implemented a limited purpose object database, I suspect there may be technical reasons in the case of OO databases. 15:29:01 sykopomp: oh, sweet. I was going to have to deal with the other one, which I think was implemented more by a couch-guy than a lisper. 15:29:05 gigamonkey: What is your definition of an "object database"? 15:29:14 -!- blandest [~blandest@85.204.33.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:29:32 mooglenorph: yeah, the one on the couch wiki is a little scary. Not that I pretend mine is all that much better, although I do prefer it :P 15:30:03 mooglenorph: from looking over it, I guess the view server supports everything except the 'list' feature. 15:30:04 Something that allows you to program with a directed graph of objects as if they were all in memory when they really can't possibly fit. 15:30:13 so filter/validate/show/update all work (mostly) 15:30:19 So one solution is just to use a bunch of swap. 15:30:21 jfm3: Take your typical information system. 100 years of student data of our university fits in the RAM of my laptop. And in much less than 100 years, that memory will be much bigger. People tend to overestimate their memory needs. 15:30:38 But that never seems to be performant enough in practice, for reasons I'm still not sure I entirely understand. 15:30:39 gigamonkey: But the things is they usually fit. 15:31:05 Well, if they fit, then you have a much simpler problem. 15:31:16 In that case I assume you just need a way to persist your objects? 15:31:18 sykopomp: nice. the source looks quite readable too. probably because I've recently been digging around in the couch docs... 15:31:35 gigamonkey: You need checkpointing anyway; just serialize them to a file. 15:31:42 mooglenorph: the couchdb user interface may be a little less appealing, since it uses my toy object system, but it's probably trivial to translate to CLOS. 15:32:06 gigamonkey: My claim is that nearly all DB problems that were too big in the past, and that triggered the use of RDBs are now so small they fit in the memory of your average PC. 15:32:10 beach: Right. That's fine. I think the other thing that you get into when you start talking about "databases" is often a notion of supporting concurrent users. 15:32:25 gigamonkey: Thus, Oracle should sell about 5 systems per year, and not the number they currently sell. 15:32:27 RDBMSes at least have a story about how that works. 15:32:42 beach: you may still want transactions, though 15:32:45 mooglenorph: as far as speed goes, the view server is a little faster than the native JavaScript server, but the JSON library I'm using is kind of a nasty bottleneck :\ 15:32:45 and persistence 15:32:50 sykopomp: yeah, that won't be a problem. if I can seperate it nicely, would you like a patch, so unsers can use both frintends? 15:32:51 gigamonkey: But nothing about that is intrinsic to RDBS. 15:32:55 now, there are other options there, of course; STM, for instnce 15:33:01 rsynnott: Of course. 15:33:02 sykopomp: hmmm, is tehre a better JSON library? 15:33:06 kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-52.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 15:33:07 mooglenorph: I would certainly accept patches, yeah. 15:33:07 beach: there are still plenty of huge problems out there. 15:33:09 rsynnott: Transactional memory is a hot topic. 15:33:11 No. But if you want to use a different solution, you may need an answer. And it's not a trivial problem. 15:33:21 Adamant: That's why I am a researcher. 15:33:39 outside of systems designed for it (clojure, etc), though, STM is still sort of awkward 15:33:54 mooglenorph: nope. Pretty much all of them have _some_ kind of smell, and the real bottleneck is reading/parsing in all the JSON, and reserializing back to JSON before spitting things out. 15:33:58 rsynnott: More awkward than RDB? You must be kidding? 15:34:09 beach: yeah, I just meant in reference to the Oracle bit. they are definitely oversold and overused, but there are still quite useful for a lot of databases people are using 15:34:18 mooglenorph: but the view server shouldn't be your bottleneck unless you're using a lot of ad-hoc views. 15:34:53 remember that regular views get basically 'compiled', and CouchDB only sends new/changed documents to the view server after the initial run. 15:35:04 Adamant: Yes, I know of one such application, namely the French social security system. On the other hand, they need Oracle because they didn't distribute the data locally, so they also need huge mainframes. 15:35:07 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:35:45 -!- davertron [~Dave@vt-sb-1.logicsupply.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:35:50 sykopomp: that's fine then. I'm just glad to get a view-server for CL that isn't the one on the couch wiki 15:36:06 beach: government/population-sized are definite cases where Oracle is justified, and there are more of them than you would think. 15:36:09 Adamant: Actually, it's the other way around. They do it with RDB, so they can't distribute it very well, so all French people have to be treated in the same place, so they have to have a mainframe with Oracle, and we pay a lot for that. 15:36:24 mooglenorph: I believe my view server actually supports more stuff than the one on the couch wiki. I don't think that one supported views, validators, etc. 15:36:25 sykopomp: I don't think I'm willing to regress to the level of implementing yet another JSON library 15:36:37 *national-population-sized databases 15:36:49 Adamant: But for Social Security, it is better to handle them locally, 'cause there is little chance that someone from city A will walk into an office of city B. 15:36:51 davertron [~Dave@vt-sb-1.logicsupply.com] has joined #lisp 15:36:57 mooglenorph: it's pretty hard to get it faster than the current JSON libs, too. It's at the point where you probably need to work some magic. 15:37:14 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:37:15 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:37:44 -!- sunwukong [~vukung@business-80-99-161-225.business.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:37:51 Anyway, it doesn't matter. I just thought progressive thinkers like Lispers would be sensitive to ideas which involve questioning widespread wisdom for more radical solutions. 15:37:52 Apparently RDBMSes are another instance of the MAN who is OPPRESSING US. I suggest you convert all your LIQUID ASSETS into GOLD and RUN TO THE HILLS! They can take our guns, but they can't take our OBSESSIVE UNDERSTANDING of LISP COMPILERS! Power to the people! 15:38:03 :) 15:38:08 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 15:38:13 mooglenorph: another difference with my view server is that you can actually SLAD it and just put the binary in /usr/bin, as opposed to screwing around with sockets... 15:38:20 jfm3: drug abuse is bad for you ;) 15:38:37 sykopomp: SLAD? 15:38:45 mooglenorph: save-lisp-and-die 15:39:26 sykopomp: ah. that's exciting. you should post this thing on cliki or what have you. 15:39:33 beach: I think not questioning RDBMS's at this point is silly, but I also don't think the 'noSQL' database trend solves every problem either. 15:39:37 mooglenorph: you can also do stupid tricks with it. I have a screenshot somewhere where I wrote a CouchDB view where the map function did a postgresql query with postmodern while filtering through documents :) 15:39:59 well, it's unfinished and undocumented, so I haven't put it up anywhere. 15:40:17 sykopomp: hah! stupid tricks are good. 15:40:34 I find it odd that small databases are given as a reason RDBMSs aren't important today, because _if_ there is a movement away for RDBMSs today, then its the NoSQL people who are claiming that they have _too much_ data for an RDBMS to be able to scale to that while preserving its features. 15:40:53 well, this significantly improves my day. expect some patches for that over the summer. 15:41:08 I'm off to clean the apartment for now. woo! 15:41:14 SQLite is pretty slick. 15:42:40 sykopomp: hey that's cool. with cl-couch I had to use socat or whatever 15:43:41 another thing is that people tend to mix RDBMS and SQL 15:43:44 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:43:52 Joreji [~thomas@69-198.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:44:51 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 15:45:03 beach: have you played with Allegro Cache? 15:46:03 levente_meszaros: yeah, you can do other relational stuff 15:46:06 gigamonkey: I have read up on it, but I don't think I ever got around to playing with it. What problem does it solve for me? 15:46:35 gigamonkey: I just received your book from Amazon. Thanks for writing it! 15:46:41 ... which leads me to a different topic, namely that there are people who advocate things like other programming langauges and other text editors than the ones I use, and who assume that everyone advocates their particular text editor or programming language because of reasons that are totally foreign to me (authority, ignorance, etc) and they are very surprised whey they are confronted with a technical argument. 15:47:08 felideon, mooglenorph: http://omploader.org/vMzR5Ng 15:47:37 Two weeks ago, some students (who didn't know you could use sockets in Lisp) almost dies laughing when I told them there are web-servers written in Lisp. 15:47:38 Adamant, SQL is a nice language for the non-programmer to type in, but a not so nice language for the programmer to build on top of it 15:47:42 amaron: PCL? 15:48:08 Surely you can use sockets in basically anything? :) 15:48:10 gigamonkey: Yes. Is that means you have other books too? 15:48:20 They were convinced that, because our hero Apache programmers are, well, heroes, then they must know best and you can trust them to "know" that no other programming language than C can be used to implement web servers. 15:48:27 amaron: yes. My most recent is Coders at Work 15:48:28 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 15:48:31 rsynnott: depends on whether you can encode them as a list or not 15:48:47 gigamonkey: Ah, that's yours too. Nice. 15:48:57 beach: I think that's funny, given that I doubt that is how most of the original Apache coders would describe themselves 15:49:28 Adamant: Yeah, unfortunately, I do not know enough about those programmers, but the discussion was quite surreal. 15:49:30 gigamonkey: PCL (online) got me into Lisp world, and now lisp oriented company too. 15:49:40 amaron: excellent! 15:49:49 amaron: what company? 15:49:49 gigamonkey: So I can say you changed my life. :) 15:49:50 beach: Allegro Cache lets you keep a bunch of objects in memory and save them to disk at the same time. 15:49:57 adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-248-175.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 15:50:16 Adamant: For instance, they had no idea what C++ does when reference counters are used, and how many orders of magnitude more they cost than a good GC. 15:50:17 *gigamonkey* hopes amaron's life turns out well, after this change. 15:50:23 sykopomp: hah wow. with cl-couch I'd write create the views at teh REPL and in Futon the Map Function was just a name, it wouldn't show the lisp code or anything 15:50:24 sykopomp: Copyleft Solutions, Norway 15:50:35 gigamonkey: How is that different from PRINT. 15:51:10 beach: more efficient than a naive PRINT-based solution. 15:51:26 That said, I often implement "databases" by just dumping out a whole file with PRINT everytime anything changes. 15:51:28 felideon: heh. You can shove views into the database as regular documents. 15:51:39 felideon: using design documents 15:51:47 beach: Apache is hardly the webserver de jour, anyway 15:51:53 gigamonkey: That's the way I do it, but only beause my OS requires me to. 15:52:00 rsynnott is right 15:52:03 Plus AllegroCache does support a notion of transactions that allows for multiple concurrent users. 15:52:15 beach: what do you mean about the OS requiring you to? 15:52:19 a lot of the web server folks have moved on to various other 'new hotnesses' 15:52:19 sykopomp: yeah, but I couldn't view the lisp code from that CouchDB web UI 15:52:25 rsynnott, Adamant: again, I didn't know enough of the topic to argue on that point. 15:52:28 -!- jfm3 [~user@216.156.98.230.ptr.us.xo.net] has left #lisp 15:52:34 felideon: ah. 15:52:38 beach: yeah. 15:52:45 the transaction thing is probably the most important 15:52:46 sykopomp: what's up with the picture at the bottom lol 15:52:56 gigamonkey: Stupid post-Multics systems distinguish between primary and secondary memory, just like we did in the 1960s. 15:53:02 incidentally, elephant approximates many allegrocache features for non-allegro lisp 15:53:29 felideon: "yo dawg I heard you like databases so I put a database in your database so you can query while you query" 15:53:31 or something like that. 15:53:53 rread [~rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:54:01 felideon: read the results of the query :) 15:55:27 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 15:55:43 yeah :) 15:56:05 Adamant: I understand that Apache is *very* stable, but that *has* to be DESPITE the way it was written (I mean the languages, the tools, and the methods) rather than thanks to them. 15:56:35 Adamant: Or else, pretty much all my intuitions as a researcher would be wrong and I should retire. 15:57:33 After having read up on it, no document databases are not an improvement. CLOS is. 15:59:07 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:59:18 beach: I think one reason Apache is as stable as it is that the early programmers realized early on C has a lot of problems. 15:59:18 beach: Apache isn't even all that super-stable, really. Its big claim to fame is that it's very old, everyone knows and deploys it, and it has the standard PHP implementation 15:59:49 Adamant: and so they were very cautious? 16:00:01 rsynnott: are any of the new replacements as stable as Apache yet? 16:00:03 rsynnott: Ah, that's news to me (not super-stable) 16:00:37 -!- alama [~alama@193.136.122.17] has quit [Quit: alama] 16:00:38 beach: they wrote specialized portable libraries to deal with a lot of C-based crud 16:00:42 Adamant: things like nginx would generally be at least as stable as apache, I believe 16:00:44 -!- billitch [~billitch@men75-12-88-183-197-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: billitch] 16:00:55 e.g. APR 16:00:57 Adamant: I see. 16:00:59 (though nginx isn't actually all that new; it's just fairly new to the English speaking world) 16:01:02 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-cimxoxvomighapcu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:01:39 rsynnott: apache is usually considered more stable, because it's been deployed for a little while, now. And the last major change in architecture (apache2) is fairly old 16:01:46 rsynnott: I know nginx has a rep as being faster than Apache, but I didn't know how it was with regards to stability 16:01:46 It just has different priorities (nginx is fast and high-capacity; apache is somewhat slower and much lower capacity but has features coming out of its ears, and has been the incumbent for over a decade) 16:01:59 koollman: has quite a lot of security problems, though 16:02:04 nginx hasn't reached that level yet (not that it crashes or anything. works fine) 16:02:17 often due to its more obscure features, which can't be gotten rid of because someone's still using them 16:02:36 rsynnott: That comes from the number of things handled. most security problem exists only if the corresponding module is used. 16:02:44 Why is this related to Lisp? Because a modern Lisp OS would again revive the idea that there is no distinction between disk and RAM, and there would be no need for "databases" other than transactional memory applied to CLOS. 16:02:58 -!- bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:03:12 And so no need for PHP, cgi, or any crap like that. 16:03:13 *levente_meszaros* remembers 2 years back we had a nice Apache bug that manifested in swapping to web sessions at some weird constellations... 16:03:49 I would like to see anything that could act as a half-decent lisp OS. not even a full OS, just a fast enough VM with features to keep it running forever, and probably some things to limit bad interactions between programs 16:04:01 beach: have you heard of rucksack? I haven't tried it myself but I do want to once I get a chance. 16:04:15 *levente_meszaros* remembers that he got the page of somebody else's and vice versa... 16:04:18 beach: you'd still want your database accessible easily over the network in some circs 16:04:21 beach: drewc has wonderful things to say about rucksack 16:04:48 a very common (though limited) scaling technique for web apps is to have one DB servers, and throw more app servers at it as needed 16:04:52 felideon: I have heard of it and read about it, just like I have heard and read about Allegro Store. But they don't seem like any improvement on what I already have, and they complicate programming. 16:04:53 you know, with the era of virtualized everything, I'm not sure language-based OS's might not make a comeback. 16:04:59 *rsynnott* was reasonably impressed with elephant 16:05:15 actually... a crossover of erlang 'node' handling, and a lisp environment. that would be interesting to deploy software :) 16:05:31 a lot of the legacy compatibility pain might be handled that way. 16:05:33 rsynnott: I have an information system that is running at my department, accessible over the net, and it uses only CLOS. 16:05:35 koollman: that would be interesting 16:05:40 tricky to implement, though 16:05:47 beach: oh, it's definitely possible, yes 16:05:52 rsynnott: (and Hunchentoot/CL-WHO) 16:06:08 gz [~gz@12.154.28.10] has joined #lisp 16:06:22 rsynnott: well the erlang part works well mostly because memory modifications are strictly limited/identified in erlang. I wonder how one could do the same with lisp 16:07:06 rsynnott: I could hold hundreds of years of data in the RAM of my desktop that it is running on. 16:07:25 beach: varies with the data you want to hold :) 16:07:46 koollman: It does. This just happens to be all staff and student data of a major French university. 16:07:46 usually, the dataset grows faster than the data storage 16:07:49 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:08:06 koollman: Not if the current RAM can hold the next 100 years of data. 16:08:29 beach: right until anyone just 'need' to store big images, or video, or something, in that kind of data ;) 16:08:36 *rsynnott* is actually currently working on a memory-based storage approach for web games, to replace an existing db-based one 16:08:43 koollman: I'll grant you that. 16:08:51 koollman: I'll store them on disk :) 16:08:53 Hun [~hun@95-90-224-111-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 16:08:56 though clojure, not cl; the STM is very helpful 16:08:58 (because my OS is still stupid) 16:09:04 mail storage is a good example of that. it was fairly easy. Now it's dreadful. It might become easy again. then complex... ;) 16:09:21 that said, in this particular case, the max amount of data to be stored per user entity is pretty low 16:09:26 (also, data expands to fill available storage ;) ) 16:09:47 -!- Joreji [~thomas@69-198.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:10:23 koollman: It does? For the past 10 years now, I get more disk space than I can consume, because disks get bigger than the data I have time to download. 16:10:30 of course, memory is getting very cheap now 16:10:37 beach: you must have crappy network access ;) 16:10:44 beach: how do you handle persistence? Do you serialize copies of everything? 16:11:04 koollman: 1 Gbit/s nationally, but I don't have time to download and consume that much data. 16:11:22 you have time to download it. consuming might be difficult. 16:11:36 (also, I work for a hosting company. my customers datasets grow faster than the network and/or storage ) 16:11:42 koollman: I tend to avoid downloading things I don't have time to consume. 16:11:48 you aren't the average user 16:11:49 sykopomp: Right now I do the stupid thing. PRINT everything after each modification. 16:11:57 koollman: Thanks! 16:11:59 beach: :| 16:12:27 sykopomp: It is still faster than the typing speed of my average user. 16:12:43 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@g229242167.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 16:12:44 rurban [~chatzilla@188-23-59-195.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 16:12:45 :| 16:12:47 sykopomp: It might not be that after some time. But for now it works fine. 16:12:58 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@12.71.56.2] has joined #lisp 16:13:06 the problem there is that if you ever have a crash, recovery will take time with a significant dataset 16:13:36 -!- nunb [~nundan@122.162.138.14] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:14:15 Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 16:14:20 How is the C++ FFI library called? 16:14:34 there's a C++ FFI? 16:14:37 create clos from c++ 16:14:51 verazzano? 16:14:51 I forgot its name 16:15:01 a yes, thanks 16:15:04 rsynnott: the usual answer to long recovery time is to store the data on more nodes, with synchronous replication and/or asynchronous replication 16:15:29 (which changes recovery to 'use the other storage from now on') 16:19:06 hello rurban 16:19:22 Hi 16:19:25 *beach* keeps quiet and listens for a while. 16:19:53 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:20:10 brennanc [~brennanc@65.203.131.114] has joined #lisp 16:20:11 -!- egoz [~Egoz@114.79.55.216] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 16:20:50 egoz [~Egoz@114.79.55.216] has joined #lisp 16:21:06 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 16:21:09 -!- brennanc [~brennanc@65.203.131.114] has left #lisp 16:24:49 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 16:25:20 *levente_meszaros* just realized that many text on dwim.hu can be edited (using the context menu) due to authorization turned off, oops 16:25:20 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 16:27:19 plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-231-66.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 16:28:53 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:30:46 ejs [~eugen@109.167.95.225] has joined #lisp 16:32:01 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 16:32:46 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:35:22 -!- kvsari [~kvsari@203.171.93.21.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:35:41 kvsari [~kvsari@203.171.93.21.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has joined #lisp 16:38:45 -!- hicx174 [~hicx174@211.187.100.115] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:41:13 levente_meszaros: heh 16:41:16 Hey, that's great! Both vng and maus are going to Paris for their internships! 16:41:32 antifuchs: Hey! Do we have a room in the village? 16:41:35 beach: tell them to bring their food. 16:41:39 as a condition 16:41:58 sykopomp: Most Vietnamese do anyway, 'cause French food is to greasy. 16:42:07 excellent 16:42:10 send some to me, too 16:42:21 beach: I think you do (or in a neighboring one) - let me look it up when I'm home and get back to you (: 16:42:25 sykopomp: French or Vietnamese? 16:42:38 sykopomp: Exception, the young woman who is in Bx at the moment; she *loves* French food! 16:42:56 antifuchs: I am counting on you. No need to rush. 16:43:17 beach: actually, I like both. Send both. 16:43:24 beach: I meant to say, you definitely have a room - I just don't know if it's in this village or the next one over (: 16:43:28 I'm willing to trade deepdish pizza. 16:43:34 sykopomp: I suggest you come here and pick it up instead! 16:43:45 antifuchs: Ah, that's good enough. 16:43:52 beach: I can't right now. There's that whole volcano thing :( 16:43:59 darn, yes. 16:44:11 ah, antifuchs is here. sers! 16:44:12 sykopomp: but maybe you should buy the tickets in advance! 16:44:17 sykopomp: Not as far south as here though. 16:44:18 hey rurban (-: 16:44:34 I switched to perl completely :) 16:44:36 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 16:44:45 We wish that we can meet all of you! :) 16:44:52 rurban: wow, that's terrifying (: 16:44:57 beach: I'll have to visit my family again sometime soon, I guess :) 16:45:05 I and vng :) 16:45:08 maus: All on #lisp? That would be tricky. 16:45:09 smithzv [~smithzv@c-24-9-11-34.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:45:29 sykopomp: Are they here? (you might have told me). 16:45:44 beach: :) 16:45:45 beach: I have family that lives near Colmar 16:46:00 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:46:08 I can't remember the exact name of the town they live in :( 16:46:24 maus: Bordeaux is a 3h comfortable train ride from Paris. We regulartly go to Paris for a one-day meeting and come back in time for bed. There should be ample opportunity to get together, in Paris and in Bordeaux. 16:46:37 bah, it's almost the same sans macros 16:46:49 sykopomp: Ah, that's trickier. Too far norht. Might still be blocked. 16:46:54 yeah 16:46:58 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.172.214.188] has joined #lisp 16:47:02 I have a cousin studying in toulouse, too 16:47:19 sykopomp: Much better. Then use the excellent trains. 16:47:32 beach: it's truly great! :)) 16:47:39 it's unfortunate that google no longer provides transatlantic directions. 16:47:44 -!- Hun [~hun@95-90-224-111-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:47:48 maus: Yeah, I am very happy for you both! 16:48:09 I don't know the route for swimming across the atlantic anymore :( 16:48:10 beach: thank you, we are too! :) 16:48:11 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:48:36 maus: You understand this is beacuse you taught yourself Lisp, right? 16:49:31 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:49:59 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-11-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:50:16 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 16:50:54 beach: I'm sorry..I don't understand what you meant?! 16:51:00 maus: One more piece of advice. Didier is very nice, but many Vietnamese confuse "nice" and "not demanding". This is not true in the west. Didier will be both at the same time. 16:51:17 maus: I meant, you got this internship because you know some Lisp. 16:51:19 palter [~palter@mobile-166-137-139-199.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 16:52:12 -!- rread [~rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:52:14 maus: So instead of thinking like many Vietnamese people think, that "since Didier is nice, we won't have to work hard", this is the contrary. You know have to shift into overdrive and become *much* more productive than before. 16:52:18 rread [~rread@nat/sun/x-hhvuxqhfhpihywhe] has joined #lisp 16:52:27 maus: It's part of working in the west. 16:52:37 beach: yes, sir! 16:52:52 maybe part of working in france >_> 16:53:28 sykopomp: Indeed, the French are the most productive per hour worked in the OECD countries. Granted, we work few hours...:) 16:53:46 :( 16:54:06 beach: we can get these, it is all by helps, teachings and advices from You and Prof. Marie! 16:54:07 maus: I advice you to talk to Khanh, Nam, Phu, Tuoung (of this year) and Hai. 16:54:35 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 16:54:39 I should move to yurop or something. The politicians here are insane. 16:54:47 blandest [~blandest@79.112.109.113] has joined #lisp 16:54:54 beach: yes :), we will! 16:55:00 sykopomp: where;s here? 16:55:00 norway is tempting 16:55:04 maus: They were all very surprised about how much people work here, but they adapt, and they seem to like it because they keep coming back. 16:55:13 rsynnott: US 16:55:19 beach: ah, yes; 35 hour weeks? :) 16:55:29 rsynnott: legally, yes. 16:55:40 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.172.214.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:55:45 rsynnott: changing, though with the current government. 16:55:49 Hun [~hun@95-90-224-111-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 16:56:11 beach: is that sarkozy guy still in power? 16:56:13 beach: yes, sir! 16:56:33 bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 16:56:44 maus: On the other hand, we have a clear distinction between "roles" and "people" which you have probably already discovered. I can have a beer with you one day, and require you to finish your paper the next. Those are two different roles of the same person. 16:57:12 lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 16:57:12 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@12.71.56.2] has quit [Quit: galaxywatcher] 16:57:15 sykopomp: Unfortunately, yes, but his popularity is at an all-time low. I could have predicted that, but then I don't vote here. 16:57:27 sykopomp: I don't believe that politicians have any power at all these days.. 16:57:50 beach: yes, I understand of this. 16:57:59 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 16:58:06 udzinari: US Presidents have had quite a bit of power, specially since Bush... 16:58:08 udzinari: I tend to agree, and they are making a big mistake by claiming they do, because when things go well, they take credit and when things go bad, they are blamed for it. 16:58:36 sykopomp: the US presidential system is rather unusual (most presidents are not executive) 16:59:07 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-dtjlxscneylrkrpx] has joined #lisp 16:59:14 Seems like Sarkozy is emulating that "le président gouverne". 16:59:31 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Am I missing an eyebrow?] 16:59:54 sykopomp: Presidents.. they remind me the story of the President of the Galaxy more and more 17:00:31 maus: I would hate for Didier to come to me and say that you (both of you) are not good, because both me and Marie argued in favor of you. This means you have to do as much as you can to prove that we were right to defend you. 17:01:00 maus: You get the picture, you are a smart person. 17:01:33 *udzinari* reaches for his glass of stroh to choke depressing thoughts 17:02:07 maus: remind me to remind you about what you should do while in Paris in case you want to do a PhD. No rush, but we need to talk about it. 17:02:11 beach: I and Vuong will try our best to fulfill the internship's requirements as our thanks to You and Prof. Marie. We will try our best! 17:02:29 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:02:39 maus: That's a good start! :) 17:02:44 beach: yes, thank you, we will! 17:03:11 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 17:03:37 [why is my dinner not ready? It's after 19:00!] 17:03:46 -!- palter [palter@clozure-AA61732D.mycingular.net] has quit [Quit: Get Colloquy for iPhone! http://mobile.colloquy.info] 17:03:46 -!- palter [~palter@mobile-166-137-139-199.mycingular.net] has quit [Quit: Get Colloquy for iPhone! http://mobile.colloquy.info] 17:04:01 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:07:45 merl15_ [~merl@188-22-29-63.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 17:09:11 maus: There is another strange belief among the Vietnamese people I know, namely that you are not supposed to show your ignorance. So Vietnamese people are ashamed of asking when there is something they don't understand. I think it is a fundamental law of science to be ignorant about something, and desire to know more about it, and true scientists ask stupid questions all the time, and put themselves in positions of inferiority so 17:09:11 that they can learn more. 17:09:20 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Quit: "Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new." -- attributed to Albert Einstein] 17:09:51 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 17:10:28 [sorry #lisp, I am taking advantage of a relative calm period for semi-private, though Lisp-related information] 17:10:41 rlb3 [~robert@ng1.cptxoffice.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:55 beach: it might be related to Far-East concept of "losing face"? 17:11:20 beach: I do not think that is isolated to the Vietnamese 17:11:23 p_l: I am sure it is. But in the context of science, that idea is a disaster. 17:11:25 -!- udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-lubvwmadadazyprn] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:11:40 froydnj: I am sure you are right, but that's what I know. 17:12:21 beach: I think it might be useful to check then how apprenticeships worked in such cultures. an Apprentice *did* have to ask question, shouldn't it work that way? 17:12:48 beach: I have also found that with Indians I've worked with 17:13:16 maus: I myself believe in the "diffusion theory of learning". Diffusion is an idea from physics where the rate of transmission of some substance is proportional to the difference in concentration. So if I systematically put myself in situations of inferiority with respect to knowledge, I will learn more per time unit. 17:13:20 beach: Though more often it's along the lines of not admitting that you might be able to get something done 17:13:25 especially since Far East definitely wasn't slow when it came to science, it's just a certain sequence of events that caused that area to be worse equipped than Western forces... 17:13:25 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 17:13:43 beach: yes, thank you! 17:13:49 *forces/colonists/whatever 17:13:58 In a lisp related question, is there a way to query the system as to what array types are available? 17:13:59 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-22-147.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:14:06 hang around educated people and hope for osmosis? 17:14:30 maus: I am not sure it is perfectly clear what I am saying. If you have any questions, just ask, you won't lose face! OK? 17:14:49 (Or rather, what array types will not get set to T when used) 17:15:04 p_l: Manybe so. I don't know how to check that though. 17:15:08 Elench: it actually works in a way. 17:15:18 herbieB: AFAIK no 17:15:18 I can well believe it 17:15:23 herbieB: Yeah, it is definitely more developed in Asia. 17:15:33 beach: yes, sir! I'm not afraid to lose my face.. :)) 17:16:12 perhaps maus will also become familiar with the western concept of 'screw authority' at some point. 17:16:13 >_> 17:16:30 Elench: No, more like "hang around them, but put yourself in a situation where you need to learn from them" 17:16:39 maus: Good start! 17:16:45 ah, also makes sense 17:17:02 hi guys 17:17:04 sykopomp: Especially when 'screw authority' also includes 'screw your parents when they act authoritarian' 17:17:14 herbieB: indeed. How dare they? 17:17:14 Though, I do wonder how prevelant that philosophy is 17:17:19 hello wolgo 17:17:32 wolgo: You didn't answer my last question. 17:17:34 herbieB: in the US? Oho... 17:17:41 beach: what was it? 17:17:54 sorry I was away but still logged in 17:18:04 wolgo: I forget, something like "how is learning Lisp going"? 17:18:05 should I use an _away suffix? 17:18:09 oh 17:18:11 it is good 17:18:30 I need to write my own string-to-list function to split strings. 17:18:40 and this cons cell business is somewhat odd 17:18:45 cl-ppcre ftw 17:18:47 regarding copying and suck. 17:18:51 such* 17:19:04 sykopomp: We don't talk openly of that particular influence that their education might have here :) In any case it is not explicit. 17:19:21 ;) 17:19:27 wolgo: You decided against split-sequence? 17:19:43 who knows, they might end up going back to vietnam and starting a communist revolution or something 17:19:44 ...oh wait 17:19:49 no I did not 17:19:50 heh! 17:19:56 I just learned about it right now haha 17:20:01 thanks beach! 17:20:14 M-. shows the source right? 17:20:18 wolgo: Oh, as I recall someone already told you about it. You need to know about logs. 17:20:25 minion: tell wolgo about logs 17:20:25 wolgo: have a look at logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 17:20:25 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:21:18 oh okay 17:21:30 anair_84 [~anair_84@wsip-72-215-168-118.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:22:46 cool 17:23:35 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 17:23:53 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@64.186.161.2] has joined #lisp 17:24:18 hey is there a lisp function tab completion thing for emacs? I have it working with one desktop that is using CCL but this setup emacs+ccl is not able to do the same thing 17:24:23 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:24:44 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@64.186.161.2] has quit [Client Quit] 17:25:10 minion: tell wolgo about slime 17:25:11 wolgo: please look at slime: SLIME is the Superior Lisp Interaction Mode for Emacs. http://www.cliki.net/slime 17:25:59 The logs are another interesting case where people just *know* they are to big to download, so they look for various web interfaces. I just wget them all and use grep. 17:26:31 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 17:27:16 wolgo: C-i (or TAB) in the listener or C-c C-i in a Lisp buffer does completion (I think; my fingers know the commands, but my "brain" doesn't). 17:27:41 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 17:28:47 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@122.167.90.91] has joined #lisp 17:29:08 oh okay 17:29:18 I am using slime + CCL 17:29:20 in emacs 17:29:34 That ought to work. 17:30:06 -!- drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:30:07 wolgo: M-TAB to complete the symbol 17:30:21 drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:44 wolgo: Though if you want to be pragmatic, most people here probably use SBCL, so if you want help, that might be a better chose. Otherwise I know of no objective reason not to choose CCL. 17:31:01 I am on windows. 17:31:08 this is a corporate laptop 17:31:11 haha 17:31:13 beach: plenty of people using CCL as well here. Getting support shouldn't be an issue. 17:31:20 not that many using Windows, though ;) 17:31:39 wolgo: Though if you want to be pragmatic, most people here probably use Linux, so if you want help, that might be a better chose. Otherwise I know of no objective reason not to choose Windows. 17:31:45 haha 17:32:04 hey I could have irc in an emacs buffer right? 17:32:04 hehehe 17:32:08 yes 17:32:11 wolgo: M-x erc 17:32:14 I am going to research it 17:32:16 wolgo: I use ERC 17:32:27 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-134-199.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 17:32:41 wolgo: The last thing I did wasn M-p and some editing. 17:32:59 okay I will check it out 17:34:09 attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-132-189-83.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 17:34:16 sykopomp: Good to know. 17:34:44 beach: oh, you mean the CCL thing? Yeah. 17:34:45 Gah, I copied a typo. *choice 17:35:16 *beach* joins his family for a [late] dinner. 17:38:14 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 17:40:10 wormwood [~wormwood@174.136.100.146] has joined #lisp 17:40:30 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-dtjlxscneylrkrpx] has left #lisp 17:43:01 -!- maus is now known as maus` 17:43:05 -!- hlavaty [~user@77-22-100-58-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:44:05 -!- maus` is now known as maus 17:44:14 can someone tell me how I do this: i have a string "hanning" that I need to convert to #'hanning 17:45:03 (fdefinition (find-symbol "HANNING")) 17:45:08 scsiraider, http://www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=common+lisp+string+to+symbol 17:45:09 first hit 17:46:01 ahh intern thanks 17:46:12 no, FIND-SYMBOL! 17:46:21 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 17:48:46 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 17:48:49 -!- wolgo [~noige@69.59.130.52] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:48:55 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 17:49:23 stassats`, what's the difference? 17:49:34 clhs find-symbol 17:49:35 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_find_s.htm 17:49:40 clhs intern 17:49:40 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_intern.htm 17:49:44 first hit! 17:49:46 lol 17:49:46 ok 17:49:51 alama [~alama@a95-95-128-109.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 17:50:30 yeah find-symbol looks more civilzed 17:50:35 +spelling 17:50:46 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:52:36 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:53:49 thanks always 17:54:09 don't forget to use the right package 17:54:19 be that intern or find-symbol 17:56:54 enthymeme [~kraken@130.166.209.12] has joined #lisp 17:57:27 going with find-symbol 18:01:05 cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 18:01:15 stassats`: what if the symbol is in another package? 18:01:41 specify another package, obviously 18:02:25 -!- davazp [~user@83.57.37.58] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:02:28 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:05:10 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 18:05:48 billitch [~billitch@2a01:e35:8b7c:5ce0:211:24ff:fe99:ffc3] has joined #lisp 18:07:20 boyscare1 [~bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:07:23 -!- boyscare1 [~bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:08:36 Athas` [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 18:08:55 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:09:12 Joreji [~thomas@65-150.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:09:37 -!- boyscared [~bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:10:21 boyscared [~bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:11:07 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 18:11:30 -!- wormwood [~wormwood@174.136.100.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:11:47 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:12:40 -!- Curtis_B [~Curtis_B@173-11-47-129-Minnesota.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:15:43 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 18:15:44 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 18:15:44 Athas`` [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 18:16:27 -!- tompa [~tompa@h59ec27fb.sehjjak.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 18:17:13 daniel___ [~daniel@p5082CD07.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:17:24 -!- Athas` [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:20:25 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082C7BC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:20:36 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:20:51 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:22:40 -!- Athas`` [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:23:00 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-135-10.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 18:23:13 wolgo [~noige@69.59.130.52] has joined #lisp 18:23:23 -!- Hun [~hun@95-90-224-111-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:23:31 woot hooray for never running apt-get clean 18:23:49 Athas`` [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 18:26:51 -!- wolgo [~noige@69.59.130.52] has quit [Client Quit] 18:27:12 wolgo [~user@69.59.130.52] has joined #lisp 18:27:17 wow 18:27:18 brennanc [~brennanc@65.203.131.114] has joined #lisp 18:27:23 I am using irc in emacs. 18:27:29 This editor kicks assssssss 18:28:26 -!- brennanc [~brennanc@65.203.131.114] has quit [Client Quit] 18:30:26 Athas``` [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 18:30:52 -!- wolgo [~user@69.59.130.52] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:31:32 -!- davertron [~Dave@vt-sb-1.logicsupply.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:31:47 -!- Athas`` [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:32:18 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:32:21 davertron [~Dave@vt-sb-1.logicsupply.com] has joined #lisp 18:33:54 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:35:36 wolgo [~user@69.59.130.52] has joined #lisp 18:35:49 oconnore_ [~oconnore_@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 18:36:44 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Puf!] 18:37:29 Athas```` [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 18:38:50 -!- Athas``` [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:39:18 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 18:42:38 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:43:55 -!- benny [~benny@i577A7543.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:43:57 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 18:46:31 *sigh* 18:46:52 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-34-27-96.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 18:46:54 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 18:47:09 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 18:47:12 LaPingvino: How is your project going? 18:47:18 hello! 18:47:26 -!- Athas```` [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:47:26 last time was mostly thinking 18:47:31 and some experimental work 18:48:03 Now I will need to learn more about the structure of climacs 18:48:16 You came to the right place. 18:48:19 but it's about time to eat now, I'm going to do a quick walk here 18:48:27 and come back with some meal 18:48:32 then will do some work :) 18:48:50 I might not be here, but perhaps Athas will. 18:49:12 maybe in the time I do a walk you can drop some hints in the air 18:49:18 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:49:19 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 18:49:21 I will leave this open anyway :) 18:50:19 LaPingvino: longkid has expressed his desire to work on games. I doubt that he is quite ready, but you should know that I pay him part time to work on Lisp, and if you are willing to take him on, I'll continue paying hime. 18:50:23 *him 18:50:42 -!- davertron [~Dave@vt-sb-1.logicsupply.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:50:47 ah great 18:51:12 -!- cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 18:51:12 he is in a company with you? or how is that construction? 18:51:16 davertron [~Dave@vt-sb-1.logicsupply.com] has joined #lisp 18:51:36 (go for a walk now, be back soon) 18:52:18 LaPingvino: I am a teacher/researcher in Bordeaux, and we have part of our masters program in HCM in Vietnam where he is located. But this is a private initiative on my part to get VN students to use Lisp. 18:52:57 sugarshark [~ole@p4FDA9CE7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:54:08 do you guys teach in French 18:54:48 in Saigon? 18:54:57 jewel: At the moment, yes, but the president has told us we have to convert our masters program to English progressively. 18:55:30 jewel: The masters program in Saigon is in English, but the Undergrad program is currently in French. 18:56:29 jewel: would you like to join one of our programs? 18:57:49 wedgeV [~wedge@rrcs-24-105-134-152.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:58:45 -!- egoz [~Egoz@114.79.55.216] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:59:13 egoz [~Egoz@114.79.55.216] has joined #lisp 18:59:49 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 18:59:51 Blkt` [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-34-25-19.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 19:00:19 -!- davertron [~Dave@vt-sb-1.logicsupply.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:00:27 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-34-27-96.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:00:56 dnolen [~dnolen@2002:47f7:62d6:0:223:12ff:fe52:c2f9] has joined #lisp 19:00:56 davertron [~Dave@vt-sb-1.logicsupply.com] has joined #lisp 19:03:00 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:47 mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has joined #lisp 19:04:45 Wooble [~user@pool-71-182-143-126.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:54 -!- Wooble [~user@pool-71-182-143-126.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 19:06:08 htk_ [~htk_@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has joined #lisp 19:06:36 rdd [~user@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 19:07:03 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:07:18 benny [~benny@i577A8982.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:08:46 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440484.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:10:05 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:10:57 beach, I'm just curious, does the programme have a web page? 19:11:55 jewel: I am sure it does. Check dept-info.labri.fr 19:12:49 amaron_ [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 19:14:02 *beach* goes to bed. Good night! 19:15:24 I'm back :) 19:15:29 :( 19:15:30 tompa [~tompa@h59ec27fb.sehjjak.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #lisp 19:16:48 Hun [~hun@95-90-224-111-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 19:19:39 -!- blandest [~blandest@79.112.109.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:19:41 -!- scsiraider is now known as PuffTheMagic 19:20:50 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440484.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 19:22:40 hm, hacking vops is a good way to hose your lisp 19:23:15 ephcon [~ephcon@student166-46.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 19:23:32 Good night! See you! 19:23:59 -!- maus [~maus@222.253.105.196] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:25:33 -!- clog [~nef@bespin.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:26:34 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 19:28:10 -!- davertron [~Dave@vt-sb-1.logicsupply.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:30:07 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@student166-46.hampshire.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:30:08 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 19:30:16 davertron [~Dave@vt-sb-1.logicsupply.com] has joined #lisp 19:32:40 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:33:31 Devon7 [~devon@c-98-216-157-52.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:19 Ogedei [~user@ip54508552.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #lisp 19:35:18 -!- ejs [~eugen@109.167.95.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:37:09 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-11-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:37:32 dlowe, a suggestion: if you record darcs patches, then record the stuff in test/ in a separate patch. that way it's easier to experiment with the semantic changes to the lib itself... or to hunt down regressions by adding new tests and checking them while unpulling patches... 19:42:13 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-37-132.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 19:42:20 fsl [~fsl@77-253-228-178.ip.netia.com.pl] has joined #lisp 19:43:45 Trying out SLIME for the first time, seems awfully sketchy, any way to do (format t "Am I having FUN yet?") <-- slime-eval-last-expression and see some output? 19:44:21 use the REPL 19:44:31 if you want to have fun 19:44:31 faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 19:44:49 put the cursor after the ) and press ctrl-x ctl-e ;) 19:45:12 Yeah, that works in elisp but nothing happens in slime 19:45:13 or C-x C-e in Emacs style keybindings :) 19:45:24 is slime-mode on? 19:45:27 -!- gz [~gz@12.154.28.10] has left #lisp 19:45:38 you can use a slime-scratch buffer for that 19:45:44 or just do M-x slime-mode 19:45:49 then it should work 19:46:07 slim-mode wouldn't like much the buffer without lisp-mode 19:46:10 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:50 it likes it fine actually, evals, shows results in the echo area, just no *standard-output* nor *terminal-io* 19:47:23 and the output will show up either in *slime-repl ...* or in *inferior-lisp* 19:47:31 yup 19:47:41 -!- prip [~foo@host87-128-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:48:03 i still advice using REPL directly 19:48:12 a multi buffer isearch of all existing buffers turns up no match except the expression I typed 19:48:22 sure 19:48:34 no match for what? 19:48:35 Devon7: have you configured SLIME with slime-fancy? 19:48:47 did you start slime at all? 19:49:00 but if you are coding with source code files it's useful to evaluate from the file directly :) 19:50:39 huh, weird, they were in the *inferior-lisp* buffer all along. that's what I get for trusting some weird multi-buffer isearch. 19:50:43 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 19:51:20 I am reading the PCL book. It is talking about the difference between copy-list and copy-tree. It says COPY-LIST doesn't copy the sublists of a list of lists but copy-tree does, when I do (copy-list '((1 2) (3 4) (5 6))) into some setf'd variable I still get the whole list. Does this mean just the cons cell is moved and the cons cell of the internal list is the same? 19:51:50 wolgo: the superficial result is the same 19:52:00 superficial result doesn't matter 19:52:08 yeah, ok, now I am having fun! Thanks. 19:52:09 however, in a copy-list if the car is a list, it remains like that 19:52:16 ahhh 19:52:18 I see 19:52:19 wolgo: yes, it (1 2), (3 4), etc will be the same 19:52:20 in a copy-tree, it gets replaced with a new list 19:52:23 I see what this says 19:52:29 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.171] has joined #lisp 19:52:40 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 19:52:54 it's all about bindings and values ;) 19:53:18 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 19:53:24 Devon7: now, for extra fun, enable slime-repl by putting (slime-setup '(slime-fancy)) into .emacs 19:53:43 wow 19:53:47 this is cool :) 19:53:57 this is my first exposure to data structures. 19:54:03 I like this singly linked list idea. 19:54:05 prip [~foo@host87-128-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:54:10 wolgo: have you been programming before? 19:54:11 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-20-131.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 19:54:41 yes but not professionally outside of some stuff my work asked me to create. 19:54:48 I do not consider myself a programmer 19:54:51 (let ((x '((1 2) (3 4) (5 6)))) (eq (car x) (car (copy-list x)))) ==> t 19:54:51 wolgo: and for how many time? and how old are you? (I'm 21 and I'm programming for about 10 years now I think, maybe more) 19:54:53 (let ((x '((1 2) (3 4) (5 6)))) (eq (car x) (car (copy-tree x)))) ==> nil 19:54:54 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:54:55 just an enthusiast 19:55:06 about 11 - 12 years 19:55:06 wolgo: all good programmers go that way :) 19:55:20 I am 29 and I started when I was about 18 19:55:22 you shouldn't like data-structures, you should use ones that are appropriate 19:55:29 wolgo: what kind of a function do you have? 19:55:40 It is not my function. 19:55:49 it is an explanation of cons cells in PCL 19:55:51 and trees 19:56:07 or my job function? 19:56:10 stassats`: that's a typical CL-thought. Clojure is more comfortable in that regard I think :) 19:56:21 wolgo: your job function :) 19:56:24 You'll see that Guy L Steele nowadays argues that lists are root of all evil 19:56:34 wolgo: you were complaining about the lack of exercise in PCL, now write your own copy-list and copy-tree 19:57:09 hahah 19:57:13 stassats`: you should be able to reason about the dataflow of your application without having the system of the language come in your way, in that regard Common Lisp is a half-baken lisp... 19:57:21 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:57:30 LaPingvino: that's "i want my program to behave as intended"-thought 19:57:38 and "i don't believe in magic"-thought 19:57:42 tcr: they are however good for macros and insight in datastructures :) 19:57:42 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:57:46 -!- tcr [~tcr@host178.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:57:54 LaPingvino: my job title is "Consultant" which translates to network/sys admin for a company that provides gear that makes the internet work. 19:58:04 wolgo: ah okay :) 19:58:11 wolgo: how did you come to lisp now? 19:58:17 I have to write python programs for them sometimes. 19:58:20 oh 19:58:25 I just like to write programs. 19:58:27 bought the book and started reading? downloaded PCL? 19:58:31 and I read lambda the ultimate 19:58:32 ah great :) 19:58:35 ahhh :) 19:58:40 good blogs are good ;) 19:58:47 I have written some haskell programs 19:58:54 ah that's sure cool :) 19:58:54 TR2N [email@89.180.209.116] has joined #lisp 19:58:57 but I do not like dealing with the IO problems. 19:59:07 and lisp has a more friendly syntax to me. 19:59:07 If I have two packages with the same symbol that I'm importing in to a new package with (defpackage new-package (:use #:conflict1 #:conflict2)) how do I specify that I want to import the symbol from #:conflict2, and not ":conflict1? 19:59:28 *wolgo* does not understand haskell IO and does not really want to today. 19:59:45 I want to program lisp. So I am learning lisp. 19:59:54 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:00:28 knobo: if possible, use only one of the two packages and do import-from from the other 20:00:44 fiveop [~fiveop@g229242167.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:00:51 by "if possible" I mean if it's not too much of a burden ;) 20:01:07 wolgo: lisp is quite a big family 20:01:16 Common Lisp is a great language 20:01:31 -!- egoz [~Egoz@114.79.55.216] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20:01:32 but I don't know if it's the best language to start with for learning lisp 20:01:48 ok, so I can not use only defpackage 20:01:56 tmh [~user@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 20:02:00 Greetings lispers 20:02:05 knobo: defpackage accept import-from 20:02:09 greetings :) 20:02:12 clhs: defpackage 20:02:13 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defpkg.htm 20:02:49 tcr [~tcr@host178.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 20:03:21 schoppenhauer [~css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 20:03:31 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@2002:47f7:62d6:0:223:12ff:fe52:c2f9] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 20:04:42 wolgo: do you have some project to work on while learning the language? 20:05:11 defpackage accepts :shadowing-import-from 20:05:16 minion: memo for beach: Many thanks for your advices! 20:05:16 Remembered. I'll tell beach when he/she/it next speaks. 20:05:28 it can be worth it to have a goal and learn the lisp-dialect that gets you there 20:05:35 LaPingvino, wolgo: afaic I started using lisp by reading AMOP (I liked it much, having a kind of Soft.Eng. background), and then PCL... quite a good introduction to lisp I think 20:05:42 but anyway PCL is a great book :) 20:05:57 lemoinem: AMOP? 20:05:58 I tried scheme too but I definitely prefer CL 20:06:15 the Art of Meta-Object Protocol 20:06:29 knobo: (defpackage #:foo (:shadowing-import-from #:bar #:symbol) (:use #:foo #:bar)) 20:06:47 cool 20:06:47 an detailled introduction to CLOS 20:06:52 minion: AMOP 20:06:52 AMOP: The Art of the Metaobject Protocol, an essential book for understanding the implementation of CLOS and advanced OO. See the sepcification of MOP at http://www.lisp.org/mop/ 20:06:58 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:03 I am going to finish up PCL and PAIP 20:07:05 lemoinem: I actually like Clojure, it's way more functional in nature and has some CL-quircks out of the way (but it can be hard to learn well with a CL mindset I see now, I had Clojure as my first Lisp) 20:07:21 and while I am doing this I am creating a roguelike floor planner. 20:07:26 to create mazes 20:07:33 and generative maps for games. 20:07:45 I have made games in a couple other languages. 20:07:54 but I want to make something with Cl. 20:07:56 Clojure is more like Haskell, but for the side-effects part you can rely on Java power, and Java is great for the actual doing things part :) 20:08:18 brb 20:08:19 wolgo: that's nice :) I want to create a Game IDE in CL 20:08:28 i don't think so about Java 20:08:46 it worked 20:08:46 but what do i know, i'm a smug lisp weenie 20:08:53 LaPingvino: never tried Clojure but I've heard of it. 20:09:24 let me know when it gets a decent object system 20:09:53 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 20:10:26 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:10:34 lemoinem: it might actually teach you to write better common lisp :P 20:10:40 CLojure is fare from Haskell 20:11:00 knobo: I know, but most of its important ideas come from Haskell 20:11:03 pattern matching 20:11:07 list comprehensions 20:11:19 and a lot of adherents fiddle with monads ;) 20:11:26 and laziness 20:12:13 -!- nipra [~nipra@115.118.252.228] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:13:38 No apropos matches for `slime.*repl' 20:14:54 *vng* go to bed. G'night! 20:15:01 Devon7: and what do you want to say with this? 20:15:06 -!- vng [~user@123.20.118.205] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:15:51 Devon7: did you put (slime-setup '(slime-fancy)) in .emacs? 20:17:07 he must also add the contrib dir to load-path 20:17:21 no, slime-setup does that 20:17:45 hm ok 20:17:51 can't remember that bit 20:18:08 unless contrib dir is somewhere else, which is unlikely 20:18:44 I did eval it in elisp 20:18:53 no obvious result 20:19:22 now restart your lisp 20:19:23 you should quit from slime, and M-x slime again 20:19:55 loaded a bunch of contrib/swank-* 20:20:27 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 20:20:28 palter_ [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:28 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:20:29 -!- palter_ is now known as palter 20:21:28 oh, look, a CL-USER> prompt... and the output is in red 20:21:41 quodlibetor [~user@146.95.21.166] has joined #lisp 20:21:53 fancy, isn't it? 20:22:10 lame, (values 1 2 3) crashed it 20:22:14 :D 20:22:18 mega sketchy 20:22:28 that's impossible! 20:22:33 LOL 20:22:39 what lisp are you using, what slime version? 20:23:05 how did it crash it? 20:23:07 Debugger entered--Lisp error: (error "Elisp destructure-case failed: (:PRESENTATION-START 3 :repl-result)") 20:23:39 slime version? 20:23:42 you should probably do what stassats suggested at the very beginning. Put slime-setup into your .emacs, and start a new emacs instance 20:23:57 LOL, when I quit the debugger, it finished printing the other values, 1 and 3 in red, 2 in white. 20:25:06 whatever the version is, it should be from CVS HEAD 20:25:35 blandest [~blandest@79.112.109.113] has joined #lisp 20:25:56 I think he just got it confused 20:26:02 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has quit [Quit: mstevens] 20:26:22 -!- davertron [~Dave@vt-sb-1.logicsupply.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:26:22 Debugger entered--Lisp error: (error "Not connected.") 20:26:55 netytan [~netytan@85.211.63.239] has joined #lisp 20:27:00 Before we waste any time on any of your further mumblings; did you try from scratch? 20:27:04 M-x slime again? :P 20:27:07 somebody or something is confused here, that's for sure 20:27:15 I think so 20:28:12 drewc: here? 20:30:25 Guest63420 [~nozavto@94.51.9.123] has joined #lisp 20:30:34 stassats`: the update thing in slime-list-threads sets point to the beginning of the buffer all time 20:30:45 -!- abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:30:56 2010 Apr 14 Wed 06:52 EDTcvs -d :pserver:anonymous:anonymous@common-lisp.net:/project/slime/cvsroot co slime 20:31:04 tcr: i noticed that and save-excursion doesn't help, i don't know what does it want 20:31:16 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 20:31:38 yeah, killed the emacs and started over 20:31:47 -!- Guest63420 [~nozavto@94.51.9.123] has quit [Quit: òàì ìåíÿ åùå íå áûëî] 20:32:10 otherwise it'd still be connected 20:32:26 ah okay :) 20:32:54 stassats`: even if save-excursion worked, it wouldn't do the right thing in case the list is updated 20:33:03 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7542b0.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:33:40 tcr: right, i'll fix that later 20:34:26 I'm not sure what it should do 20:34:31 remember the thread id? 20:34:36 what if the thread has gone since? 20:34:54 that's what i was going to do. move up? 20:34:57 imho it should also display the threads gone since the last update 20:35:12 alive: ... dead: .... 20:35:47 also it should sort the list according to the thread-id 20:36:13 it doesn't? 20:36:35 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-20-131.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:36:42 oh did you do that? 20:37:03 no, but isn't the list already sorted? 20:37:10 davazp [~user@83.57.37.58] has joined #lisp 20:38:35 -!- schoppenhauer [~css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:38:44 svvv [~a6c6ffda@gateway/web/freenode/x-lxiytjepjcelnpge] has joined #lisp 20:39:04 nope 20:39:06 Hmm...kinda a design opinion question here. On a project I am working on, I was thinking that it may be interesting that if I have it running as a daemon to have it run swank within the application as well, so I could connect a slime session to it and get stats, change things, and so on. Have others done something like this? 20:39:40 sure 20:40:18 To do this, I'm assuming that I'd use threads having one actually doing the daemons job, and the other calling whatever swank thing I'd call to spin that up? 20:40:37 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:41:27 -!- billitch [~billitch@2a01:e35:8b7c:5ce0:211:24ff:fe99:ffc3] has quit [Quit: billitch] 20:41:34 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-37-132.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:41:40 abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:53 TDT: try googling 'swank detachtty' 20:41:59 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-71-232-16-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:43:27 billitch [~billitch@2a01:e35:8b7c:5ce0:211:24ff:fe99:ffc3] has joined #lisp 20:44:36 prxq [~mommer@e180224243.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:44:39 svvv: THanks for the information, reading on that now 20:45:14 hi 20:45:46 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:46:44 -!- svvv [~a6c6ffda@gateway/web/freenode/x-lxiytjepjcelnpge] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:47:14 this slime repl ain't a COMINT, grrr... 20:47:42 Devon7: Do you want the *inferior lisp* buffer? 20:47:47 yeah, finally got around to configuring ASDF2, clbuild and SBCL. 20:48:28 eugu [~Miranda@212.1.246.237] has joined #lisp 20:49:11 ... only for it to fail in PCL o_O 20:50:17 I want an interactive window with a prompt to bind  to comint-show-output 20:50:20 -!- fsl [~fsl@77-253-228-178.ip.netia.com.pl] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.1.1] 20:50:32 so lists are a recursive data structure in lisp? 20:50:55 but in fact it is completely alien so even m-x comint-show-output hasn't a prayer 20:51:10 wolgo: yes, sort of 20:51:19 okay 20:51:36 I am trying to diagram (setf (rest x) x) 20:51:46 I can almost see it in my mind. 20:51:46 when you say "recursive" I think "circular" 20:51:48 haha 20:51:50 anyhow 20:52:25 p_l pasted "ASDF 1.679 error while loading parenscript" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/98014 20:52:36 use the reader macros: (setf x (quote #1= (#1#))) 20:53:00 okay 20:53:03 I will keep that in mind 20:53:08 I am still a noobie 20:53:19 wolgo: your first version was ok 20:53:29 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-112-99.w86-203.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:54:16 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:54:20 oops, I typed something more like (setf (car x) x) 20:54:26 wolgo: consider the definition of a proper list: either nil, or a cons whose cdr is a proper list.. 20:54:55 right 20:55:01 I see where that would lead 20:55:12 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-xo.basistech.com] has joined #lisp 20:55:16 francogrex [~user@234.102-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 20:55:16 wolgo: that definition is not circular, but it is recursive 20:55:25 yes 20:55:42 somewhere a cdr would have a base case of '() 20:55:44 right? 20:55:48 to terminate the list 20:55:57 err, one of the cons cells rather 20:55:58 not necessarily 20:56:11 oh yeah, dotted lists. 20:56:16 *wolgo* is a noob 20:56:16 in a proper list, you cdr enough times and you get to nil 20:56:16 haha 20:56:30 but these lists are improper 20:57:24 well, a proper list does have to terminate with nil 20:57:48 suggest your (setq *print-circle* t) 20:57:53 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-xo.basistech.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:58:13 so you can print infinitely circular lists on a finite screen 20:58:22 a dotted list can terminate with a non-nil atom, and a circular one does not terminate as it points to one of its conses 20:59:19 -!- Ogedei [~user@ip54508552.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:59:23 (setq x (cons 1 2)) 20:59:42 (setf (cdr x) x) 20:59:50 ReiniUrban [~chatzilla@93-82-83-118.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 21:00:27 or #1=(programmable . #1#) :) 21:00:36 with *print-circle* turned on, it will detect the infinite loop and print it with #1= and #1# 21:00:48 oh 21:00:58 -!- rurban [~chatzilla@188-23-59-195.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:01:07 otherwise, I imagine it will fill your screen until you kill it 21:01:12 -!- ReiniUrban is now known as rurban 21:01:59 -!- plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-231-66.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:02:00 so in this case, #1= defines #1# as x 21:02:33 that's awfully esoteric 21:02:44 dlowe [~dlowe@c-71-232-16-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:46 but that's what you get with infinties 21:02:46 I am reading http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/beyond-lists-other-uses-for-cons-cells.html 21:02:47 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 21:03:03 it talks about cons cells and the difference between copy-tree and copy-list 21:03:14 my mind is exploding 21:03:24 you tried the two sexprs I typed earlier? 21:03:27 that is where all of this cons cell business comes from 21:03:39 yeah 21:03:40 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-132-189-83.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:03:44 one is a type error 21:03:49 (setf (cdr x) x) 21:03:49 -!- Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:03:50 wolgo: did you write your own copy-list and copy-tree? 21:03:57 no 21:04:02 I did not 21:04:32 those are built in 21:04:36 maybe I should build them 21:04:45 it might expose how this works. 21:04:47 Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:53 yes, but i suggested that as an exercise 21:05:31 oh 21:05:35 okay 21:06:37 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.171] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:06:46 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:07:59 you can (defun my-copy-list (x) ...) in one line using mapcar and identity 21:08:38 -!- Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:08:47 Devon7: that's very helpful of you doing exercises for wolgo 21:09:21 haha 21:09:30 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-22-147.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:46 ramp 'em up slowly 21:10:01 Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 21:10:01 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:10:34 but then they have to write my-mapcar 21:11:20 Marthon's over, street sweepers blowing dust into my window 21:11:25 first, you need to invent the Universe 21:11:34 As anyone ever felt the need to have SLIME's debugger raise Emacs's frame? 21:12:03 okay, have 'em write my-cons, my-car and my-cdr using only lambda, that's the best 21:12:29 [ 21:12:31 who will write the lambda? 21:12:47 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.171] has joined #lisp 21:13:18 amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 21:16:08 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 21:20:12 -!- brookeGarcia [~brookeGar@dsl-156-154.aei.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:20:24 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.171] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:20:31 consp is a type 21:20:36 okay. 21:21:08 brookeGarcia [~brookeGar@dsl-147-164.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 21:21:15 consp is a predicate 21:21:32 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-196-2-117-233.wbs.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:21:42 -!- sugarshark [~ole@p4FDA9CE7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:22:13 Harag [~Harag@wbs-196-2-117-233.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:22:39 clog [nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 21:23:12 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.171] has joined #lisp 21:23:19 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:24:21 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 21:24:21 -!- quodlibetor [~user@146.95.21.166] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:26:38 -!- Joreji [~thomas@65-150.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:27:26 TDT, all the time :) 21:28:24 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.18.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:30:47 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:30:51 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@g229242167.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 21:35:20 -!- netytan [~netytan@85.211.63.239] has quit [Quit: netytan] 21:37:34 -!- prxq [~mommer@e180224243.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:37:43 okay I understand how copying trees and lists work now. 21:37:49 I made copy-tree 21:38:05 Joreji [~thomas@65-150.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 21:38:05 I had to use consp 21:38:20 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:38:34 cool. 21:42:07 has anyone tried using ABCL for Android / J2ME apps? 21:42:49 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:43:54 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:44:38 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:45 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:46:52 Mathrick from what I understand Android does not run J2ME native 21:47:12 -!- prip [~foo@host87-128-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:47:18 There does appear to be some bridging libs 21:47:26 Guthur: ah, no, that's not what I meant. I wanted to ask if anybody used it to create either android or j2me apps 21:47:36 prip [~foo@host87-128-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 21:47:38 though knowing that is also helpful 21:47:55 -!- eugu [~Miranda@212.1.246.237] has quit [Quit: eugu] 21:48:03 dalvik (the android pseudo-jvm) really sucks for anything using reflection 21:48:23 Android like nearly all phones is an esoteric platform in terms of app dev 21:48:36 Xach: here? 21:48:52 so the first question is whether abcl needs reflection like most dynamic language implementations on the jvm do 21:49:39 The choice I made when having to develop a mobile app, for a uni project, was to just go web app 21:49:55 HTML5 will make this even more viable in the future 21:49:58 jsnell: oh 21:50:49 any of you go to the BALisp? 21:50:50 Guthur: that's another option, with parenscript making it fairly bearable too. But really, that's not there yet 21:51:11 I am thinking of showing up to be the resident noob and sponge information about lisp. 21:51:13 mathrick: Yep its very much one for the future 21:51:47 jsnell: well, the python bridge works somehow 21:51:57 so it can't be *that* bad 21:52:25 also maybe ECL could be used to generate C code, which I believe can be plugged into android as well 21:52:37 you have to write some Java glue, but the core can be in C 21:52:43 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:52:56 I wonder what the J2ME jvms look like in this regard 21:53:10 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:34 by python bridge you mean the android scripting environment? my understanding is that that's the C python implementation compiled for arm, that just plugs into the jvm for calls to the platform API 21:54:23 -!- Joreji [~thomas@65-150.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:54:33 Joreji [~thomas@65-150.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 21:54:42 jsnell: that might be the case 21:55:19 Has anyone run SBCL as daemon, any init.d script they would be willing to share? 21:55:36 -!- alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:56:00 OLIVIDA [~olivida@204.152.198.26] has joined #lisp 21:56:43 -!- rapacity [~prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:57:23 jsnell: apparently it's cpython + RPC for platform calls 21:57:33 -!- derefed [~derefed@cpe-74-65-181-129.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:57:34 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:57:37 so it wouldn't be that hard to coerce ECL into producing android apps 21:57:40 -!- OLIVIDA [~olivida@204.152.198.26] has quit [Client Quit] 21:58:05 rapacity [~prwg@li30-188.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 21:58:05 Guthur: SCREEN+SBCL+SWANK would probably suffice. 21:58:25 that's a lot of yelling 21:58:58 Ya I've done that, but screen seems a tad heavy weight for running on a server 21:58:58 mathrick: There's a lot of noise in #lisp. 21:59:19 Well my limited server anyway 21:59:47 -!- wolgo [~user@69.59.130.52] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:00:04 -!- nurv [ishtar@62.32.133.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:00:06 I do want sbcl+swank though 22:00:08 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 22:00:09 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 22:01:49 -!- blandest [~blandest@79.112.109.113] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:01:50 -!- potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f66758c-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:01:53 wolgo [~user@69.59.130.52] has joined #lisp 22:02:00 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 22:03:19 -!- felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:03:34 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:04:14 -!- Joreji [~thomas@65-150.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:04:21 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 22:05:18 tcr: got it, thanks 22:06:15 seangrove [~user@70-36-146-156.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 22:07:42 -!- adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-248-175.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:08:18 hi 22:08:18 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.171] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:08:25 missed anything? 22:08:43 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-152-154.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 22:08:59 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 22:09:03 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 22:09:05 *levente_meszaros* thinks one of the most difficult thing in programming is getting the names right 22:09:45 potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f66758c-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 22:10:00 The most difficult thing is deadlines 22:11:29 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@5ED161A7.cable.ziggo.nl] has left #lisp 22:12:04 The most difficult thing is agreeing what the program should do 22:12:14 Is it kosher for one to use SB-EXT:EXIT? I think we're specifically /not/ supposed to use the sb-unix EXIT. And if so, should it be added to the manual (or at least the index)? 22:13:08 *Xach* has never heard of sb-ext:exit 22:13:39 sb-unix:unix-exit? 22:14:14 pkhuong: the manual says that we sb-unix is only for internal use... 22:14:20 s/we// 22:14:47 rpg: what version of sbcl has sb-ext:exit? 22:14:54 Right. But, like Xach, I've never heard of sb-ext:exit. 22:15:30 cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 22:15:42 ah. Dunno. I'm just looking at code that calls it! ;-) I didn't write it! 22:16:46 Ah. Someone here wrote it as an alias to sb-ext:quit. 22:17:37 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:17:39 So is it QUIT that one should use? Or sb-unix:unix-exit for lack of a supported API? 22:18:11 -!- Hun [~hun@95-90-224-111-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:19:03 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 22:19:03 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:19:25 rpg: sb-ext:quit is supported and documented 22:19:36 http://l1sp.org/sbcl/sb-ext:quit 22:20:00 right. thanks. Sorry, I'm wading through some exceedingly messy code that has defined EXIT repeatedly in different packages. A mess. 22:20:01 OLIVIDA [~olivida@204.152.198.26] has joined #lisp 22:20:04 -!- OLIVIDA [~olivida@204.152.198.26] has quit [Client Quit] 22:20:34 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 22:22:05 -!- shizzy0 [~shane@adsl-71-142-63-93.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:22:37 -!- cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 22:23:26 aidalgol [aidan@69.61.15.114] has joined #lisp 22:23:27 -!- potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f66758c-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:24:02 would anyone be so kind as to reddit, digg, etc ? 22:24:23 nurv [nurv@83.231.20.223] has joined #lisp 22:24:57 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:25:32 -!- aidalgol [aidan@69.61.15.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:26:53 aidalgol [aidan@69.61.15.114] has joined #lisp 22:28:37 -!- Guest76266 [~user@nat/google/x-tjdirzbahslsxnbi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:28:49 potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f66758c-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 22:29:15 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.49] has joined #lisp 22:33:24 -!- merl15_ [~merl@188-22-29-63.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:35:05 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483A854.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:35:30 eugu [~Miranda@212.1.246.237] has joined #lisp 22:35:51 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:36:24 -!- francogrex [~user@234.102-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:38:11 -!- fnordus [~dnall@70.70.0.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:41:50 Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 22:42:02 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has joined #lisp 22:42:11 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:45:04 -!- lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@200.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:47:20 fnordus [~dnall@70.70.0.215] has joined #lisp 22:48:27 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:48:49 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 22:48:55 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:49:09 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 22:49:16 -!- saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: saikat] 22:54:25 -!- levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Quit: ...] 22:55:49 -!- nurv [nurv@83.231.20.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:55:52 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 22:57:21 lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@200.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 22:57:25 -!- Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:57:32 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@202.36.179.65] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:58:07 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:58:59 Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 22:59:38 -!- fisxoj_ [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban2.inka-online.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:06:58 Phoodus [~foo@wsip-24-234-246-31.lv.lv.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:07:18 SBCL trivia: will sbcl hash complex numbers well? 23:08:39 balooga1 [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 23:10:46 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:12:12 -!- balooga1 is now known as Balooga 23:13:44 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:13:45 maden_ [~brookeGar@dsl-152-223.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 23:14:51 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:15:05 -!- eugu [~Miranda@212.1.246.237] has quit [Quit: eugu] 23:15:24 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 23:15:36 -!- faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:17:33 -!- brookeGarcia [~brookeGar@dsl-147-164.aei.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:22:27 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.192.29] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 23:26:03 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-152-154.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:26:30 quidnunc [~user@70.49.123.43] has joined #lisp 23:28:23 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 23:32:32 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:33:06 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@rrcs-24-105-134-152.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 23:33:42 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 23:36:58 saikat [~saikat@99.13.242.166] has joined #lisp 23:37:44 cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 23:42:30 see you guys in a bit! 23:42:41 -!- wolgo is now known as wolgo|away 23:43:28 gigamonkey_ [~peter@adsl-76-254-22-147.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:44:46 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-22-147.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 23:44:47 -!- gigamonkey_ is now known as gigamonkey 23:45:39 Anyone around? 23:45:47 *gigamonkey* is testing a new IRC client 23:48:26 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:48:58 nobody here but us lurkers 23:49:31 Ah. Are any of the people who emailed me about lispbox.com and the Lispbox project lurking here? 23:50:20 I've heard of that, I know one guy who tried it and was dreadfully frustrated that it did *not* work out of the box 23:51:35 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 23:52:13 after all, amongst the Algols there is one widely deployed language and an expectiation that programs will just install and compile. Perhaps we could do that too... 23:52:14 Well, it's suffered from neglect for several years. I blogged recently about looking for people who care to give it some attention. 23:53:18 All I know is, I patiently listened to some blistering rants about how lame it is a week or so ago 23:53:29 Interesting. Do you recall any specifics? 23:53:49 I could imagine that on modern OS X boxen, it may have fallen so far behind to just not work. 23:54:08 ASDF did not work? I should ask, I was more just nodding and saying yes but not really listening 23:54:12 Actually, that could be true on all platforms. 23:54:22 Ah, well, that's a different problem. ASDF isn't *supposed* to work. ;-) 23:54:30 it was on MacOS 23:57:54 slyrus_ [~slyrus@12.50.88.2] has joined #lisp