00:00:22 -!- _macro [~macro@shiva.mochimedia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:02:02 -!- levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:03:09 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 00:03:48 FareWell [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:04:32 slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 00:06:51 -!- Makoryu [~vt920@97-123-207-113.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Absquatulandus sum] 00:07:55 -!- heyhey [~501eb9ed@gateway/web/freenode/x-xidmvnfzhukemltx] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 00:07:57 -!- wgl` [~wgl@219.sub-75-206-3.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:10:52 -!- TR2N [email@89-180-176-24.net.novis.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:11:04 TR2N [email@89-180-231-124.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 00:12:35 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483A9DD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:13:19 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:13:47 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 00:15:51 -!- jstypo [~user@190.200.25.215] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:16:06 jstypo [~user@190.200.25.215] has joined #lisp 00:16:55 rme [~rme@72-255-29-36.client.stsn.net] has joined #lisp 00:19:14 -!- newfurniturey [~joey@74.93.195.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:20:05 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 00:21:44 -!- bigjust`` [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:23:36 retupmoca` [~retupmoca@adsl-99-52-156-215.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:23:55 newfurniturey [~joey@74.93.195.210] has joined #lisp 00:24:04 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:24:16 -!- troussan [~user@c-71-195-63-115.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:24:31 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:25:46 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:25:52 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:27:11 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:27:17 -!- retupmoca [~retupmoca@adsl-76-253-126-72.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:27:31 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 00:27:31 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:30:14 -!- retupmoca` [~retupmoca@adsl-99-52-156-215.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:30:26 -!- newfurniturey [~joey@74.93.195.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:31:53 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:36:12 newfurniturey [~joey@74.93.195.210] has joined #lisp 00:39:24 ysph [~user@75-143-70-52.dhcp.aubn.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 00:42:52 -!- TeMPOraL [~temporal@188.146.63.24.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:43:32 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:43:36 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:45:20 -!- mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:45:36 retupmoca` [~retupmoca@99.52.156.215] has joined #lisp 00:46:56 btw, would anyone be willing to add a wildcard entry to sbcl.org dns zone? so that URLs without www in front will work? 00:48:19 those seem like two unrelated sentences 00:48:55 Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:49:04 woodworks [woodworks@24.st.louis-141-143rs.mo.dial-access.att.net] has joined #lisp 00:49:52 They seem related to me. 00:50:41 The "so that" suggests that the second sentence is an explanation for why the action described in the first sentence would be desirable. 00:51:09 The underlying model may be broken, but the utterances are clearly related. 00:52:24 '(and (not 'native-speaker) (it's-fucking-late :timezone 'CEST)) ;-) 00:53:17 Heh. 00:53:46 "This sentence no verb." 00:54:10 well, polish actually has a construction known as sentence-equivalent 00:54:31 *nyef* listens attentively, as it were. 00:54:31 so I'm used to lack of verb in a construct that looks like a sentence. 00:54:50 fusss [~kumi@li63-187.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 00:54:53 greetings 00:54:55 just like there's "implied subject" 00:55:02 Neat. 00:55:05 fusss: hi 00:55:29 My second reaction is "probably a pain for semantic analysis", but I don't actually -know- that... 00:55:34 nyef: parse trees for sentences and multisentences are probably the only part of Polish grammar that I don't suck at. 00:55:36 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@pool-70-19-69-201.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 00:56:12 I need to capture an "environment" where a defclass form and a defun are defined, such that, I can pass this "environment" across package boundaries and have all the symbols therein be self contained. how do I do that? 00:56:39 -!- jstypo [~user@190.200.25.215] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:56:55 jstypo [~user@190.200.25.215] has joined #lisp 00:57:12 (lambda (arg) (defclass foo ()((name :initarg :name))) (defun make-foo (x) (make-intance 'foo :name x) (make-foo arg)) 00:57:48 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:58:25 There's a certain amount of "why are you using def- forms not at toplevel?" there. 00:58:36 Or maybe at not-toplevel. 00:58:37 :-) 00:58:43 Not entirely sure how to phrase that. 00:58:49 neither do i 00:59:22 Anyway, my point is, non-toplevel definitions => red flag. 01:00:14 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 01:00:24 it's a bit tricky; library code needs client code to register a callback function. the callback function instantiates datastructures local to the client code. when the client callback is passed by #'value and invoked, the symbols therein are out of reach in the library as they are local to the client. So ... 01:00:38 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 01:00:53 my solution is to export lib:register-callback, then export client: 01:01:11 So why does the class definition need to be in a closure? 01:01:54 now that I think about it, it doesn't. i just need to wrap the co-definitions in a defining form macro that auto-exports them from the current packages, instead of capturing them in a closure 01:02:36 *Xach* auto-export => red flag 01:02:52 fwiw, it works as if I do this (register-callback #'(lambda (x) (client:make-foo ..)) 01:03:01 alright, hmmmm 01:03:10 nyef: btw, have you seen COS - the C Object System? (It's kind of a port of CLOS to ANSI C...) 01:03:19 (server:register-callback (lambda (x) (make-foo ...)) ? 01:03:28 p_l: Saw the abstract. 01:03:39 nyef: that says it can't find MAKE-FOO 01:03:49 fusss: Execute it -from the client package-. 01:03:50 -!- Edward_ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-10-45.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 01:03:54 for that to work the library would have to _use_ the client 01:04:17 let me try that (might take a bit) 01:05:08 Mmm. What you're looking at here is some sort of lossage either in the package system or in the notion of where the callback function definition and callback registration belongs. 01:05:24 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:06:24 -!- retupmoca` is now known as retupmoca 01:07:05 anair_84 [~anair_84@wsip-72-215-168-118.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:08:20 -!- ysph [~user@75-143-70-52.dhcp.aubn.al.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:09:02 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@130.166.209.10] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 01:10:27 -!- jstypo [~user@190.200.25.215] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:10:49 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:11:24 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 01:13:36 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.222.13] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 01:13:46 -!- lordakinator [~igaray@190.97.33.72] has left #lisp 01:15:02 nyef: fixed 01:15:26 it's pretty straightforward actually, no contortions necessary 01:16:21 client.lisp:(defun callback-dispatcher (type dom) ..) 01:16:48 client.lisp: (lib:register-callback #'callback-dispatcher) 01:18:30 the library just funcalls that registered callback-dispatcher (funcall (registered-callback type) dom) 01:18:54 only one symbol is exported in both packages, lib:register-callback 01:19:16 Why isn't that a generic function extended by clients? 01:20:08 because type is a string and I had fun times guaranteeing the EQLness of strings 01:20:54 I assume this is (lib:register-callback #'dispatcher "type")? 01:21:10 callback-dispatcher is a just a giant kcase mapping string ==> handler 01:21:26 hash table? 01:22:14 -!- tcr [~tcr@host178.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:22:48 (defparameter *ok-lets-be-eql* (hash-table-alist (loop for type in (list-types) collecting (cons type type)) :test :equal)) 01:23:01 -!- woodworks [woodworks@24.st.louis-141-143rs.mo.dial-access.att.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:23:02 go ahead and write LIST-TYPES then 01:23:36 fusss: what are you talking about? 01:23:55 to capture all the dispatchable types in the client application the user would have to list them somewhere, or using a defining which captures those types into some kind of registry 01:24:04 (setf (gethash ...) handler)? 01:24:48 pkhuong: the fact that two EQUAL strings are not necessarily EQL? 01:25:01 you're using an EQUAL hash table. 01:25:02 Then up the ante to a defmacro define-type-handler (type-name (&rest arglist) &body code)? 01:25:33 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 01:26:04 oh 01:27:19 (defun callback-dispatcher (type dom) (when-let (handler (gethash type *handlers*)) (funcall handler dom))) 01:27:39 yes, I can do that. pkhuong et nyef! 01:28:01 nyef: and then some by exposing a with-type-callbacks macro to make sure clients of the library don't stomp over each other. 01:28:02 (Article idea: "Some patterns for implementing declarative interfaces in lisp".) 01:28:13 pkhuong: Yes, something like that. 01:28:32 dynamic scope ftw. 01:28:34 I though you meant to make callback-dispatcher into a method itself and let it carry out the dispatching directly 01:28:50 fusss: Well, that too, until the EQUAL requirement came up. 01:29:04 fusss: that could also work, if EQL specialisers were generally decent. 01:29:13 is there any way to suppress the little output window that sbcl opens on win32 01:29:14 Just intern the string first. 01:29:21 dto: Yes, actually. 01:29:28 nyef: ! 01:29:30 dto: Got a hex editor handy? 01:29:34 nyef: oh. 01:29:36 LOL 01:29:36 never mind. 01:29:46 M-x hexl-mode 01:29:53 No, no... You can use a stream of element-type (unsigned-byte 8) too! 01:30:01 fusss: Not on win32, 01:30:21 dto: you need to change the environment of the executable from Win32 (Console) to Win32 (GUI) 01:30:23 nyef: currently, I'm working on "All you need is 1 semaphore per thread" (: 01:30:25 fusss: That uses an external application which tends to be nasty with arbitrary data. 01:30:32 pkhuong: Ooh. 01:31:03 dto: be sure to avoid changing it by mistake to POSIX :D 01:31:05 nyef: hexl-mode uses an external executable? I lost you. 01:31:09 dto: The -other- way is to "just" get the console window handle and use ShowWindow() to hide it. 01:31:18 ... because that's the only way I can see to make signal handlers wake threads from sleep. 01:31:32 fusss: At least historically hexl mode used a small external program to do the hex conversion. 01:31:37 "use ShowWindow to hide [the console window]" That's like the start menu all over again. 01:32:20 nyef: why? that's C/x86asm 101 01:32:40 It's something like ShowWindow(hwnd, SW_NOT_AT_ALL), just with a different SW_ constant. 01:34:19 p_l: is there any way to change the environment of the executable made by save-lisp-and-die 01:34:52 dto: patching the resulting executable, I don't remember the exact layout though. 01:35:06 dto: Yes. The subsystem is specified by one word in the PE header, and that's easy to find from the start of the file. I could look up the details if you really want. 01:35:30 with ASDF 2 nearly ready for release, I'm back to hacking XCVB. My, software sucks. 01:35:37 particularly software I write. 01:36:26 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 01:37:22 ASDF 2? Changelog? 01:37:37 nyef: i'll ask you again sometime 01:37:50 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 01:37:57 debiandebian [~chatzilla@ntszok008047.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:38:14 nyef: shawn betts gave me the build scripts and dlls for delivering lispbuilder-sdl applications as a pushbutton process on win32 01:38:28 i have a win32 box behind me and i'm gonna try to make it work 01:38:59 fusss: http://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/asdf/FAQ.html 01:39:17 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 01:39:20 It's something stupid, like (with-open-file (file ...) (position file #x40) (position file (+ (read-dword file) ...)) (write-dword file ...)). 01:39:24 as for actual changelog, well, http://common-lisp.net/gitweb?p=projects/asdf/asdf.git 01:40:18 FareWell: i am scanning asdf-devel atm 01:40:20 Insert suitable magic for the w-o-f and the constants for the other spaces, and suitable definitions for read-dword and write-dwrod. 01:40:24 Err... write-dword. 01:40:35 fusss: lots of noise there 01:40:42 Oops. 01:40:44 releasing quality software is HARD 01:40:49 Subsystem is a word, not a dword. 01:41:00 And the subsystem you want is 2 (down from 3). 01:41:36 *FareWell* made 187 commits to ASDF so far, and counting. 01:42:45 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:43:22 FareWell: ISTR that XCVB uses some sort of module definition form at the start of each file. Is this still the case? 01:43:52 nyef: so far, it is. 01:44:07 FareWell: we depend on you boys to work hard and deliver useable libraries for me to bitch about 01:44:19 It seems to me that there's some parallel there with the notion of one-package-per-file. 01:44:20 while conceivable, doing it otherwise requires refactoring and extending XCVB in ways that are painful for now. 01:44:45 fusss: I'm not even delivering usable libraries - only a tool on top of which to deliver libraries. Sigh. 01:45:06 "anything you can do, I can do Meta" 01:45:24 (That is, on my last couple of major hacks I ended up with a package definition form at the start of each file that declared dependencies between the files.) 01:48:01 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:49:14 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:50:24 uh? whaddyamean? 01:50:36 how does a package definition declare dependencies? 01:51:05 FareWell: pun :USE into dependency data. 01:52:17 Because each file defines its own package, it has a dependency on any packages that it refers to. If you then prefer to not use package prefixes, you can abuse the :use clause of the package definition to find your dependencies. 01:52:50 -!- seamus-android [~alistair@host86-183-193-143.range86-183.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 01:55:10 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 01:56:40 nyef: OK. Then you have an explosion of package names, but that's not a big deal I suppose. 01:57:02 You also have to manually maintain plenty of package definitions which is somewhat tedious, but doable. 01:57:23 where did I see a "build system" that depended on precisely that trick? 01:57:44 -!- Joreji [~thomas@91-190.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:58:09 Here, a couple days ago? 01:58:42 Okay, I have to maintain package definitions. This is somewhat tedious, but I have hope that tool support may become available. 01:58:50 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [] 01:59:18 Explosion of package names isn't too much of a bother, particularly with a regular naming scheme. 02:00:42 What I do get, particularly with short files (less than 512 lines, preferably not more than around 128 lines) is small pieces of code that do one thing. 02:01:38 And, further, have an explicit public interface and a list of the interfaces they depend on. 02:02:08 Which makes the code rather easier to think about, in a way. 02:02:55 no, I saw that months ago on someone's page. 02:03:23 Okay, don't know about that one then. 02:03:31 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:03:36 Sounds like something drewc might do, though. 02:03:45 nyef: well, it's working fairly well... Protect *our* critical sections with spinlocks, and poll on the semaphore. 02:04:29 which I found elegant, but heavily backwards-incompatible with existing practice, and not very extensible to generated files, ffi groveling, foreign language compilation, etc. 02:04:51 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:05:34 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0177-82-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 02:05:45 Heh. A thought: (eval-when (:compile-toplevel) (compile-file ...))(eval-when (:load-toplevel) (load ...)). 02:06:07 nyef: NEVER, EVER use eval-when without :execute. 02:06:15 Okay, why not? 02:06:33 http://fare.livejournal.com/146698.html 02:07:49 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 02:08:55 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 02:09:20 I think this scenario falls into the category of "unimaginable exceptions". 02:09:35 hum. Is there a metaclass or whatelse that handles indexing slots to build an index value->tree of objects that have that value in said slot? 02:10:00 ... content-addressable store? 02:11:05 sure 02:11:23 *FareWell* still doesn't dare jump the "use sheeple to make xcvb extensible" hoop. 02:11:35 (Hunh. Never really thought of an SQL database as a content-addressable store before.) 02:12:58 -!- quidnunc [~user@70.49.122.16] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:13:45 usually, I see hashes as one... 02:13:57 dialtone [~dialtone@c-67-180-50-184.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:13:58 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@c-67-180-50-184.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 02:13:58 dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 02:14:21 I usually see hashes as a key-value store, not really content-addressable. 02:15:05 nyef: using hash value of data for key. 02:15:18 kind of like how Venti works 02:15:48 Mmm... maybe, I guess. 02:17:05 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:17:36 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:18:36 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 02:18:55 dnolen [~dnolen@pool-70-19-69-201.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:21:52 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@200.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:27:04 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:27:20 *p_l* looked into sbcl page generation scripts... and ran away screaming. 02:28:24 -!- reb [~user@nat/google/x-cbwtcmcpyciheqrx] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:29:29 -!- fusss [~kumi@li63-187.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 02:30:48 it makes xml tags into symbols and places them inside code ;_; 02:31:30 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:31:41 Does it use a #\< non-terminating reader-macro? 02:31:50 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 02:31:51 palter_ [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:31:51 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:31:51 -!- palter_ is now known as palter 02:32:09 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.192] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:34:06 yeah 02:34:24 -!- rme [~rme@72-255-29-36.client.stsn.net] has left #lisp 02:34:36 I love that hack. 02:34:48 have an example: ( (second i)) 02:35:02 *p_l* hates that hack, likes YACLML too much 02:35:13 ysph [~user@75-143-70-52.dhcp.aubn.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:35:37 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:36:06 lnostdal [~lnostdal@200.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 02:36:37 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@wsip-72-215-168-118.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:37:22 yaclml would make that (<:a :href (page-link (car i)) (second i)) 02:38:18 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 02:39:51 nyef: you think it would be bad if I made it require yaclml when I change the layout? 02:40:42 I would worry about the additional dependency, TBH. 02:40:57 p_l: can we reasonably fork and bundle yaclml with the source? 02:41:04 (license and code size) 02:41:40 -!- ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:42:23 pkhuong: license is afaik not a problem, but I don't think it would be that much of a problem, given that cl-ppcre is already included without being bundled. 02:43:19 otoh, another idea was to use minimal amount of PHP (since it's the lowest common denominator) and just output some simple data file that would be processed by the script on server. 02:44:18 hi. i'm running sbcl on win32 and i ran into problems asdf-installing some libs because it couldn't find tar. so i copied over my site directory with all the libs in it from my linux machine over to it, but i'm not sure how to get asdf to know about them 02:44:57 dto: You monkey with asdf:*central-registry* or whatever it's called, or asdf:*system-definition-search-function*. 02:45:37 nyef: i am doing that but it doesn't work yet. perhaps i am doing somethingg wrong? here's the script: http://github.com/dto/xe2/blob/master/build-win32.lisp 02:45:45 -!- ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:46:09 ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 02:46:31 ... Don't know. 02:47:08 clhs translate-pathname 02:47:09 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_tr_pn.htm 02:47:53 Umm... Is translate-pathname doing what you want? 02:48:06 Would you be better of using merge-pathname with a relative-directory pathname? 02:48:37 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:48:46 Does the use of sb-posix:chdir cause any semantic damage? 02:49:25 Beyond that, no idea. 02:52:27 stepnem [~stepnem@88.103.132.186] has joined #lisp 02:54:08 i didn't write this script so i don't fully understand what it does. 02:54:25 i just inherited it tonight from my friend who used it to build win32 apps out of lispbuilder-sdl games 02:59:02 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 03:00:02 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:03:20 -!- newfurniturey [~joey@74.93.195.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:03:20 nyef: it's working! 03:03:25 i had the build script in the wrong place 03:03:40 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:03:42 notsonerdysunny [~chatzilla@59.92.133.67] has joined #lisp 03:03:48 *FareWell* wastes time just adding support for detecting a newly discovered class of errors to XCVB. Sigh. 03:05:10 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:05:55 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-11-51.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 03:07:23 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-20-136.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:07:33 -!- Guthur [~Michael@host213-122-221-177.range213-122.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Computer says no] 03:08:47 newfurniturey [~joey@74.93.195.210] has joined #lisp 03:11:42 isomer [~isomer@CPE00226b8ab7f9-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 03:14:14 -!- isomer [~isomer@CPE00226b8ab7f9-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Client Quit] 03:17:37 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 03:17:44 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.56.154.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:18:31 -!- jxonas [~jxonas@201.82.133.243] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:18:53 Anarch [~olaf@c-67-171-37-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:24:03 woodworks [woodworks@33.st.louis-141-143rs.mo.dial-access.att.net] has joined #lisp 03:24:14 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:24:45 G'night all. 03:24:55 echo-area [~zhujun@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 03:25:16 -!- ysph [~user@75-143-70-52.dhcp.aubn.al.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:25:47 adamvh [~adamvh@c-69-136-131-100.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:26:16 JonSmith [~jon@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:26:23 -!- JonSmith [~jon@ip24-250-13-137.ri.ri.cox.net] has left #lisp 03:26:26 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 03:29:27 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.199] has joined #lisp 03:30:46 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 03:31:07 poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has joined #lisp 03:31:42 -!- newfurniturey [~joey@74.93.195.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:32:35 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@pool-70-19-69-201.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 03:34:42 -!- saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:34:45 saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:35:32 newfurniturey [~joey@74.93.195.210] has joined #lisp 03:36:22 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:38:02 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 03:41:01 isomer [~isomer@CPE00226b8ab7f9-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 03:41:30 so, if I see a defun that has a lambda that is prefixed with #' anywhere I can be sure that I am returning a function 03:41:42 to something 03:45:16 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:46:04 well, it doesn't have to be prefixed 03:47:17 -!- newfurniturey [~joey@74.93.195.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:47:50 -!- retupmoca [~retupmoca@99.52.156.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:48:50 (defun test (x) (lambda (y) (+ x y))) (defvar t1 (test 5)) (funcall t1 5) => 10 03:50:27 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 03:51:02 newfurniturey [~joey@74.93.195.210] has joined #lisp 03:52:20 -!- woodworks [woodworks@33.st.louis-141-143rs.mo.dial-access.att.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:53:11 Good morning! 03:53:34 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 03:54:42 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-52.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:57:19 -!- newfurniturey [~joey@74.93.195.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:57:33 beach: morning :) 04:01:22 retupmoca [~retupmoca@adsl-76-235-193-239.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:02:21 newfurniturey [~joey@74.93.195.210] has joined #lisp 04:03:51 -!- UnderTaLker [~bot@89.108.125.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:06:15 aja [~aja@unaffiliated/aja] has joined #lisp 04:09:03 beach, night 04:09:15 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 04:10:32 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:10:54 UnderTaLker [~bot@89.108.125.28] has joined #lisp 04:11:44 -!- newfurniturey [~joey@74.93.195.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:15:36 newfurniturey [~joey@74.93.195.210] has joined #lisp 04:16:18 splittist [~bc3ef51e@gateway/web/freenode/x-wpvwtbzideablhpf] has joined #lisp 04:16:21 morning 04:16:32 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:21:14 -!- poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has quit [Quit: poet] 04:24:36 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-grjprgsisczgfvbk] has joined #lisp 04:24:44 -!- newfurniturey [~joey@74.93.195.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:25:28 kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-52.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 04:27:32 hello splittist 04:28:39 newfurniturey [~joey@74.93.195.210] has joined #lisp 04:29:45 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:30:56 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 04:31:26 Puppster [~jared@99-23-192-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:34:02 Is there a typical idiom for ensuring that, as I destructively modify several fields in a structure, an interrupt doesn't happen in the middle and leave my structure in a bad state? I.e., (progn-all-or-nothing (incf x) (incf y)) or something like this? 04:35:00 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 04:35:37 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 04:35:43 Perhaps unwind-protect is suitable? 04:36:39 notsonerdysunny pasted "lambda expression in a macro" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97748 04:37:00 -!- isomer [~isomer@CPE00226b8ab7f9-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:37:31 notsonerdysunny annotated #97748 "macro expansion" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97748#1 04:37:50 Zhivago, yeah, it seems like (unwind-protect nil (incf x) (incf y)) would maybe be suitable... just wondering if there's something stylistically better than that 04:38:38 Make a macro? 04:38:56 It won't save you from interruption -- just non-local transfer out of your constructor. 04:39:06 aah dang 04:39:16 I was wondering if somebody can help me with writing a lambda expression inside a macro? I have pasted the code... The problem I am facing is that the lambda expression generated via a macro is being treated as a function as opposed to a function .. 04:39:21 how can I fix this? 04:39:33 Another approach would be to use functional construction rather than destructive mutation. 04:39:58 Zhivago, unfortunately I don't think I can do that... i'm really doing hash table updates and I want to be sure they all complete 04:41:54 notsonerdysunny: As a function as opposed to a function? 04:42:22 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:43:15 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 04:43:54 beach I meant list as opposed to a function 04:43:56 amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 04:44:01 sorry ... 04:44:58 notsonerdysunny: It is treated as a function because you build it that way. 04:46:28 notsonerdysunny: What is it that you are trying to push? 04:46:44 Will unwind-protect really not protect me from an interrupt? It seems to protect me from Ctrl+C on CCL... maybe on other lisps it doesn't have to? 04:47:18 it protects from the throw out of the handler that the ctrl-c signal handler invokes. 04:48:21 beach well I am trying to write a macro to generate a define a macro to work around the lack of user defined guard to call a method (generic function) What I am trying to push is a lambda version of the guard(custom condition) to be called when the user calls the function 04:48:44 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:49:07 Zhivago, ok great, thanks 04:49:35 -!- newfurniturey [~joey@74.93.195.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:49:41 notsonerdysunny: perhaps (push (list (lambda ,params ,guard)) ,guarded...) 04:49:51 notsonerdysunny: But what is the general method you are trying to use? 04:50:29 beach I just pasted the complete macro on the paste site 04:51:02 notsonerdysunny: I would like for you to explain what the idea behind your macro is. 04:51:17 I want to define two macro to create any generic function which have the method dispatch based on a custom condition 04:51:30 notsonerdysunny: Yes, and how are you planning to do that? 04:51:47 notsonerdysunny: I notice the eql specializer in the method. What is that supposed to do? 04:52:45 beach: the idea behind the macro is that on satisifing a given condition it will generate a unique keyword corresponding to that and I can use the regular defmethod to get the correct function to run 04:53:51 notsonerdysunny: What do you mean by "generate a unique keyword"? 04:53:53 the pairs of the lambda function which I want to satisfy along with the corresponding keyword are being pushed into the global variable which specific to a given generic function 04:53:59 newfurniturey [~joey@74.93.195.210] has joined #lisp 04:54:56 notsonerdysunny: Oh, I think I see. 04:55:56 beach: k 04:57:00 notsonerdysunny: That seems like a twisted way of doing it. 04:57:01 -!- konr [~konrad@201.82.134.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:57:40 beach: how can i do it 04:57:45 notsonerdysunny: How do you take care of executing the guard in the right environment (i.e., where the parameters are in scope?) 04:58:03 -!- aja [~aja@unaffiliated/aja] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:58:22 lamda will close over the environment 04:59:23 atleast that is what i intended 04:59:33 Oh, you call the guard with the arguments? 04:59:41 yes 05:00:12 So that means the guard has to take exactly the same parameters as the generic function, and in the same order? 05:00:27 yes 05:00:49 -!- newfurniturey [~joey@74.93.195.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:01:07 konr [~konrad@201.82.134.220] has joined #lisp 05:01:13 the generic function has one added argument called the gaurd 05:01:32 freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 05:01:41 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 05:02:31 Well, I would probably make an ordinary function that would go through a list of pairs (guard . method-body), where the method body would be a function that is called if and only if the guard returns true. 05:02:35 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:02:47 As opposed to using eql-specialized CLOS methods. 05:02:57 hmmm 05:04:11 -!- echo-area [~zhujun@114.251.86.0] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:04:57 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 05:05:27 newfurniturey [~joey@74.93.195.210] has joined #lisp 05:05:45 k just to get used to writing macros how can i get the lambda to work as function as oppossed to a list 05:05:55 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has joined #lisp 05:07:36 -!- TR2N [email@89-180-231-124.net.novis.pt] has left #lisp 05:11:52 -!- newfurniturey [~joey@74.93.195.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:12:26 notsonerdysunny, confused between code and data? 05:12:57 yes 05:13:15 beach` [~user@ABordeaux-158-1-35-101.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 05:15:12 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-158-1-65-13.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:15:14 maybe you want `(#'(lambda ,params ,guard) ,guard-symbol) 05:16:27 or (list #'(lambda ,params ,guard) ',guard-symbol) 05:16:46 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:17:40 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 05:17:41 newfurniturey [~joey@74.93.195.210] has joined #lisp 05:25:31 -!- debiandebian [~chatzilla@ntszok008047.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:27:07 enthymeme [~kraken@76.242.88.96] has joined #lisp 05:29:00 bipt` [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 05:29:43 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:30:13 -!- beach` is now known as beach 05:30:31 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:31:29 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:35:14 -!- drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:35:23 drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 05:35:34 -!- Puppster [~jared@99-23-192-153.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:35:36 jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 05:42:13 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-grjprgsisczgfvbk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:42:24 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-axdwadneahdcevvy] has joined #lisp 05:46:27 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 05:47:06 Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-208-145.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:47:24 -!- varjagg is now known as varjag 05:49:05 selckiku [~selckiku@c-98-229-3-244.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:49:19 -!- notsonerdysunny [~chatzilla@59.92.133.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:54:39 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:56:32 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.192] has joined #lisp 05:59:11 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 05:59:27 echo-area [~zhujun@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 06:00:22 why is there error when writing (:use :sb-ext :getopt) but not when writing (:use :getopt :sb-ext)? 06:02:11 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:03:50 Soulman [~kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 06:05:04 jmbr [~jmbr@135.245.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 06:05:46 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:06:16 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 06:07:07 good lord 06:07:19 this language is pretty powerful 06:07:30 I wish I would have learned it years ago 06:10:15 slyrus_ [~slyrus@adsl-75-36-214-244.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:11:43 Is there any way to get SLIME to flush all of the return values of stuff I've evaluated at the REPL from memory? 06:12:02 The slowdown can get pretty noticable 06:13:44 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:17:11 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@135.245.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:18:02 -!- cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 06:18:21 yes 06:18:29 does C-c M-o do it? 06:18:58 http://paste.lisp.org/display/97752 - how does the row argument to the lambda get populated? It seems like this would not work. 06:19:54 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:19:56 wolgo: what do you mean populated? 06:20:04 -!- newfurniturey [~joey@74.93.195.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:20:25 how is there ever a value passed to that lambda 06:20:41 wolgo: that's what MAPCAR does 06:20:42 how does row ever get bound to a value 06:20:44 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:20:51 clhs mapcar 06:20:51 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_mapc_.htm 06:21:03 sorry I am a noob here 06:21:07 mapcar 06:21:09 oh 06:21:10 map 06:21:26 like, map (1+) (some list) 06:21:36 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.156] has joined #lisp 06:21:49 wolgo: that would be (mapcar '1+ some-list) 06:21:57 I see 06:22:19 cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 06:22:55 *db* is the list that mapcar is iterating over 06:22:58 I understand now 06:23:14 each value in *db* ends up being passed as row 06:24:09 newfurniturey [~joey@74.93.195.210] has joined #lisp 06:24:31 thanks jdz 06:26:26 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:26:49 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 06:27:57 merl15__ [~merl@188-22-169-134.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 06:28:40 -!- caoliver [~oliver@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:29:57 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 06:30:51 -!- newfurniturey [~joey@74.93.195.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:31:27 -!- prip [~foo@host87-128-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:36:27 newfurniturey [~joey@74.93.195.210] has joined #lisp 06:39:29 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 06:44:55 fisxoj [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban.inka-online.net] has joined #lisp 06:45:00 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-30.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.] 06:45:12 _macro [~macro@c-67-188-1-34.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:46:25 ASau` [~user@77.246.230.151] has joined #lisp 06:50:14 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:50:43 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 06:51:32 vtl [~user@nat/redhat/x-yemvdxtgkttidtis] has joined #lisp 06:51:49 beaumonta [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has joined #lisp 06:52:37 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:53:03 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:53:44 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:53:59 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:54:18 good morning 06:55:07 -!- lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-107-225.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:55:12 tcr [~tcr@host178.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 06:55:51 lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-107-225.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 06:56:19 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:57:06 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 06:57:41 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:58:14 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban.inka-online.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:02:18 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 07:02:29 -!- selckiku [~selckiku@c-98-229-3-244.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:04:19 -!- lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-107-225.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:04:39 prip [~foo@host87-128-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 07:06:32 mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 07:09:19 Axius [~hi@92.82.71.62] has joined #lisp 07:09:49 -!- merl15__ [~merl@188-22-169-134.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:10:13 -!- Axius [~hi@92.82.71.62] has quit [Client Quit] 07:13:43 notsonerdysunny [~chatzilla@59.96.194.198] has joined #lisp 07:13:53 dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:14:53 dcibiel: hello! 07:16:27 -!- benny [~benny@i577A817A.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:16:51 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:17:47 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0177-82-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:18:53 -!- newfurniturey [~joey@74.93.195.210] has quit [] 07:19:21 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 07:19:24 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 07:21:37 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:21:38 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-52.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:22:13 -!- notsonerdysunny [~chatzilla@59.96.194.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:24:08 attila_lendvai [~ati@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 07:25:01 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 07:25:22 -!- randa [~randa@94.99.50.84.sta.estpak.ee] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:26:10 randa [~randa@94.99.50.84.sta.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 07:27:07 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 07:28:32 freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 07:29:29 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:29:39 xan_ [~xan@adsl-207-214-87-58.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 07:31:09 -!- _macro [~macro@c-67-188-1-34.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:31:22 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:32:44 levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 07:33:53 -!- FareWell [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:35:05 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:37:01 ziggurat [~quassel@173.74.42.166] has joined #lisp 07:37:41 hello mvilleneuve 07:37:44 hello dcibiel 07:39:40 nowhere_man [pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 07:40:43 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 07:41:03 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 07:41:22 benny [~benny@i577A1C26.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 07:46:09 -!- ziggurat [~quassel@173.74.42.166] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:47:42 udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-ppjkuvgbxaosggdz] has joined #lisp 07:49:55 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 07:51:01 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:54:08 hi there 07:54:35 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:56:23 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@76.242.88.96] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 07:56:37 mathk [~Miranda@78.155.152.6] has joined #lisp 07:57:07 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@c-69-136-131-100.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: adamvh] 07:57:37 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.156] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:00:06 bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has joined #lisp 08:00:38 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:01:04 anair_84 [~anair_84@ip68-108-251-45.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 08:02:49 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-40-75.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:05:06 -!- bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:05:25 bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has joined #lisp 08:06:10 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 08:06:30 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 08:12:47 vtl: You haven't uttered anything for quite some time. 08:13:02 hlavaty [~user@77-22-100-58-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:13:48 spiaggia: this is my first bytes here 08:14:15 Ah, there must have been a different vtl in the past. So what brings you to Lisp? 08:14:17 konr1 [~konrad@201.82.134.220] has joined #lisp 08:15:18 beauty of parenthesis 08:15:37 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 08:16:04 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:16:21 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:17:59 -!- konr [~konrad@201.82.134.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:21:27 -!- bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:21:37 tompa_ [~thomas@h59ec27fb.sehjjak.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #lisp 08:22:01 -!- tompa_ [~thomas@h59ec27fb.sehjjak.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:22:08 bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has joined #lisp 08:22:11 tompa [~tompa@h59ec27fb.sehjjak.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #lisp 08:28:41 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 08:29:02 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@adsl-75-36-214-244.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:32:44 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:33:23 -!- xan_ [~xan@adsl-207-214-87-58.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:35:48 kwinz3 [~kwinz@e195-105.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 08:36:08 -!- bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:36:09 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.18.242] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:36:41 bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has joined #lisp 08:36:51 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has joined #lisp 08:37:11 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.18.242] has joined #lisp 08:42:41 -!- cmm- [~cmm@109.64.202.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:43:17 cmm [~cmm@109.64.202.69] has joined #lisp 08:45:06 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633430.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:45:52 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:47:42 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.18.242] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:47:53 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:49:14 -!- Tanami [~tanami@150.101.97.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:49:36 Tanami [~tanami@150.101.97.171] has joined #lisp 08:49:47 mk [~user@159.92.64.121] has joined #lisp 08:50:15 -!- mk is now known as Guest45355 08:50:36 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440484.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 08:59:58 ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has joined #lisp 09:03:47 fisxoj [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban1.inka-online.net] has joined #lisp 09:04:59 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@e195-105.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:06:11 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0177-82-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 09:17:24 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@ip68-108-251-45.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:20:11 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:20:14 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 09:21:06 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 09:21:55 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.18.242] has joined #lisp 09:23:53 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 09:24:41 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 09:26:07 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-135-10.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire.] 09:30:45 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:31:02 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:32:42 freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 09:35:18 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:36:29 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has joined #lisp 09:37:34 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:38:15 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 09:43:26 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.161.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:44:42 konr [~konrad@201.82.134.220] has joined #lisp 09:44:45 HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 09:45:06 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 09:45:54 hrm, (declaim (notinline foo)) makes sbcl assume that foo is a function. if foo is a macro, it causes the usual compile time warnings about function/macro assumptions... is this my bug, or sbcl's? 09:47:46 -!- konr1 [~konrad@201.82.134.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:50:47 -!- splittist [~bc3ef51e@gateway/web/freenode/x-wpvwtbzideablhpf] has quit [] 09:51:03 I would say yours 09:51:20 (notinline foo) means "don't inline foo"; a macro FOO means "inline foo" 09:52:55 arguably it's also sbcl's not to spank you harder 09:53:47 anair_84 [~anair_84@ip68-108-251-45.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 09:56:44 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-axdwadneahdcevvy] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:57:43 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:58:17 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:58:40 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-gyrwvzllmsasnnow] has joined #lisp 10:00:37 ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 10:02:46 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:03:34 egoz [~Egoz@114.79.55.190] has joined #lisp 10:03:56 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 10:06:17 -!- dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:06:59 jao [~jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:07:38 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 10:08:08 -!- Guest45355 [~user@159.92.64.121] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:09:07 -!- Dodek [dodek@wikipedia/Dodek] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:11:39 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 10:12:23 -!- benny [~benny@i577A1C26.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:15:25 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-57-82-249-37-165.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:15:58 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-16-247-61.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:18:52 xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-42-153.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:20:19 rswarbrick [rupert@molotov.compsoc.warwick.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:20:25 pers`` [~user@p5B34C8F6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:21:27 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:22:00 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-43-82-249-142-89.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 10:22:36 -!- pers` [~user@p5DC72A47.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:24:27 -!- rswarbrick [rupert@molotov.compsoc.warwick.ac.uk] has left #lisp 10:26:09 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:27:11 -!- schme [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:28:23 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:29:21 schme [~marcus@c83-254-196-101.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 10:29:21 -!- schme [~marcus@c83-254-196-101.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Changing host] 10:29:21 schme [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 10:30:36 -!- ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:32:05 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:32:22 vext01 [~edd@edd-sparc.kent.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:32:25 hello 10:33:04 so i am a research student who has never done any functional programming. I need a language which allows me to quickly express algorithms for prototyping 10:33:15 is lisp good at this, and if so why :) 10:33:29 if it aint, what do you reccommend? 10:35:38 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 10:37:04 what's a research student 10:37:15 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0177-82-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:37:24 and what sort of question is that 10:37:53 you are probably most quick in the language you're most experienced in 10:38:07 *quickest 10:39:01 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 10:42:20 C? 10:42:22 unlikely 10:42:48 you are probably going to be a lot faster in c than in lisp if you have to ask wether lisp is good for expressing algorithms quickly 10:45:55 ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 10:49:15 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 10:51:03 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 10:53:27 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 10:54:59 HET2: really? 10:55:21 for example my supervisor hacks up prolog in about 1/10 of the code size of mine 10:56:02 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 10:58:36 Reaver1 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 11:01:04 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!] 11:01:28 so Prolog it is, then? 11:01:52 :p 11:01:56 lichtblau [~user@i59F7B462.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 11:02:03 never mind then 11:02:29 vext01: I think lisp is a good choice 11:02:42 I was using c to make some visualization software 11:02:58 and I started using lisp for a project I'm working on, also visualization... 11:03:23 and I've made a few functions that were... 11:03:47 ok good 11:03:54 I couldn't have done the same thing with c without making much more code 11:03:58 so my next questions are: 11:04:18 a) a good introductory text, for C hackers 11:04:31 b) an implementation which is portable and does not have a crazy build system 11:04:50 vext01: I found the transition from C to be very difficult and am still novice lisp 11:04:57 hmm 11:04:58 define "portable" and "crazy" 11:05:21 jdz: ghc is not portable and is crazy 11:05:41 (in terms of build system) 11:05:46 how so? i have compiled ghc on linux and os x... 11:05:59 on anything other than x86/x64? 11:06:09 a) practical common lisp http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ 11:06:11 i have sparc machine which i use a fair amount 11:06:15 fatblueduck: thanks 11:06:23 i think one of them osx'es was G5 11:06:46 jdz: you are lucky then 11:07:05 b) I don't know if SBCL is available for sparc... but SBCL is probably the best bet 11:07:06 and you should have stated that you want one that runs on sparc... 11:08:10 http://www.sbcl.org/platform-table.html 11:08:10 fatblueduck: again thanks 11:08:23 vext01: np 11:08:31 in my book programming language runtimes cannot be made portable to different architectures just by having some C preprocessor directives in the code 11:08:58 thats a whole new can of worms 11:09:05 and not one i want to discuss 11:09:20 neither do i 11:09:31 i'm just pointing out that if you want something you should ask for it 11:09:42 vext01: do you mean portable for distrubution? 11:10:02 fatblueduck: i just want as little obstacles as possible 11:10:36 i have been following the ghc porting on the mailing lists of the OS i use and they have resorted to marking ghc i386 only 11:10:48 lisp is not as obstacle-free as other popular languages 11:10:50 so, i came here to ask :) 11:10:56 fatblueduck: oh really? 11:11:23 fatblueduck: in what way? 11:11:49 p_l: does lisp have anything like (include "filename.lisp")? 11:11:50 no 11:12:27 having a different file with functions in it and getting that file to be used by another file is not so easy 11:12:33 (load "filename.lisp") 11:13:18 if I put that inside of sinewave.lisp and then use sinewave.lisp 11:13:23 before defsystem and similar, it was done with loader scripts (and sometimes also compiler scripts) 11:13:30 the functions in filename.lisp aren't available to me 11:13:54 well, you have to include the issue of packages 11:13:56 fatblueduck: then you're doing something wrong 11:14:43 fatblueduck: feel free to use lisppaste to show what code does not do what you expect it to do 11:14:47 I guess so. At any rate, I didn't find a way to effectively do this 11:15:00 I did... but I'm not that happy with it 11:15:24 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-5-42.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:15:28 and I have to include defpackage information at the top of my files 11:15:53 fatblueduck: you're still doing it wrong 11:16:03 jdz: probably 11:16:13 I don't think that invalidates my point entirely 11:16:20 fatblueduck: so if you want to learn how to do it right, feel free to ask 11:16:53 I asked a few days ago and p_l gave me some assistance but didn't bring me to resolution 11:17:21 If I had known you would help me I would have asked you 11:18:00 myu2_ [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 11:18:51 jdz: what do I need to do? 11:19:18 i only see one paste by you in lisppaste, named "recursion or loop?" 11:19:18 I have a file name general.lisp with general functions that are used by sinewave.lisp 11:19:42 jdz: please ignore that it's not very good or recent 11:19:49 dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:19:55 jdz: I posted something a few days ago for p_l 11:19:59 GrayGnome [~MuneNoKag@isr5162.urh.uiuc.edu] has joined #lisp 11:20:04 I'm sorry I don't have the link 11:20:07 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:20:08 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:20:08 fatblueduck: first, do you have a specific package defined or do you use cl-user package? 11:20:12 I sometimes use pastebin.ca 11:20:28 I have an asd file for it 11:20:39 -!- bipt` [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:20:55 and now I have defpackage information for it in the top of the file 11:20:57 oh, then show the contents of the .asd file (in lisppaste) 11:21:12 top of which file? 11:21:23 ideally I'd like to load sinewave.lisp _only_ and have it automatically pickup general.lisp 11:21:32 (show the system definition anyway please) 11:21:34 hold on I'll make a lisp paste 11:22:15 also my lisp is processing some files right now but should be done in a few minutes 11:22:36 -!- myu2_ [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:22:48 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 11:23:12 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:25:36 isn't there software that notifies this channel of lisp pastes? http://paste.lisp.org/display/97760 11:25:52 you did not specify channel 11:26:05 (you should use the URL provided in topic) 11:26:27 jdz: want me to repaste? 11:26:34 no, it's ok 11:26:53 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 11:27:01 the defpackage stuff wasn't there when p_l was helping me and I added that yesterday 11:27:26 it looks wrong anyway 11:27:32 -!- GrayGnome [~MuneNoKag@isr5162.urh.uiuc.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:27:54 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:28:52 first, your packages have nothing to do with ASDF, so 1) remove :asdf from package use list, and 2) move the package definitions to a separate file (e.g., packages.lisp) 11:29:44 jdz: ok doing that now... 11:30:28 kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-52.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 11:33:08 fatblueduck: i annotated the paste 11:33:17 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has joined #lisp 11:33:30 oh, an there are typos (package/packages) 11:33:38 make them all named the same :) 11:35:08 btw, if you are confused: Common Lisp package system is orthogonal to ASDF systems 11:35:34 packages are all about symbols, ASDF packages about file dependencies and stuff 11:36:05 jdz: ok thanks 11:37:29 http://weitz.de/packages.html 11:37:35 i like that picture 11:38:07 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:38:12 benny [~benny@i577A1242.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 11:38:46 stassats`: oh, did not know about that page. does minion know about it? 11:39:02 it should, but i don't remember by which keyword 11:39:05 minion: packages? 11:39:06 packages: http://weitz.de/packages.html http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/programming-in-the-large-packages-and-symbols.html http://flownet.com/ron/packages.pdf 11:39:10 pix4 [~pixel@pD9572510.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:39:11 well, it was easy 11:39:20 yes, i found it out 11:39:30 by talking to minion privately :) 11:40:17 aoeu [~Chatzilla@38.109.136.11] has joined #lisp 11:40:22 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-5-42.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 11:40:48 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 11:42:03 -!- shadowspar [~rick@S010600212974d18c.su.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:44:02 -!- cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:45:10 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 11:45:37 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:47:32 mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has joined #lisp 11:47:39 Yuuhi [benni@p5483AD7A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:50:34 jdz: (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op 'sinewave) it loads sinewave.asd zpng.asd salza2.asd... and then it doesn't finish 11:50:39 it just kind of hangs 11:51:05 fatblueduck: well, you can interrupt it and check the backtrace 11:51:08 what sbcl version? 11:51:12 fatblueduck: to see what it is doing 11:52:03 stassats`: 1.0.37 11:52:22 can you interrupt it? 11:52:42 I'm not sure how to do that 11:52:48 C-c C-c in slime 11:53:34 yeah that printed C-c C-c below the last line loading salza2 11:54:17 dlowe [~dlowe@c-71-232-16-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:54:54 you're in the inferior lisp buffer? 11:55:11 shadowspar [~rick@S010600212974d18c.su.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 11:55:37 is this related to SBCL's version with threads/packages bug? 11:55:39 anyway, i'm convinced that that's the find-package dead-lock issue, it was fixed in 1.0.37.44 11:55:44 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:56:04 -!- stettberger [stettberge@peer.zerties.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:58:23 stassats`: hah ok 11:58:43 I annotated the thread: http://paste.lisp.org/display/97760#2 11:59:40 well, i advice you first to update sbcl from cvs, or load this without slime and see what conflicts it has 12:00:10 fatblueduck: still, you're using *inferior-lisp* buffer, not *slime-repl...*? 12:00:30 fatblueduck: are your general and sinewave files in different directories? 12:00:42 stettberger [stettberge@2001:6f8:1209:f0:216:3eff:fe03:ff] has joined #lisp 12:00:51 jdz: yes 12:01:04 general/general.lisp 12:01:11 general/general.asd 12:01:20 general/packages.lisp 12:01:35 sinewave is the same way 12:02:07 fatblueduck: check out the new annotation 12:02:25 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 12:02:27 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:02:28 stassats`: I'm in the *inf* buffer 12:02:44 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Quit: /server reallife] 12:02:49 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 12:02:58 fatblueduck: by your own choice? or you just don't know that slime-repl is more fancier? 12:03:24 you need (slime-setup '(slime-fancy)) to get a real REPL (and more) 12:03:32 in .emacs, that is 12:04:37 stassats`: oh I'm using slime... I just did C-x b and then *inf-tab-Ret 12:04:43 I thought you wanted me in the buffer 12:05:06 ok, C-c C-c would've worked in the repl buffer too 12:05:14 and C-c C-b in a lisp file 12:05:33 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:05:47 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 12:06:27 jdz: I updated my file. I guess I'm going to need sbcl current... 12:06:57 I don't usually install outside of my package manager, but this is worth it I suppose 12:07:08 thanks for the help here much appreciated 12:08:40 fatblueduck: one more note: if the "general" system only holds functions for "sinewave" system" then you still should only have a single system (and use subdirectories if you want to separate the files in filesystem) 12:09:45 jdz: okay that sound simpler and I'll try that instead 12:10:25 fatblueduck: i'd suggest you first put all three files in the same directory, and start reorganize when it works. 12:11:25 s/start/start to 12:11:43 Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 12:12:11 i have an .asd with six systems in it, i don't always want to load them all 12:12:31 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban1.inka-online.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 12:13:08 fatblueduck: have you read ASDF Manual? 12:13:23 p_l: yes 12:13:34 stassats`: that's nice. yesterday the weather here was very nice. 12:14:38 p_l: what adds to the confusion is that I also have a system with cygwin/clisp and I wasn't able to properly setup asdf with it 12:15:09 but I don't want to confuse the assistance I'm getting here with that because it's not very important 12:15:14 cygwin tends to muck things up. 12:15:27 p_l: I'm happy with mine 12:15:41 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 12:16:09 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-40-75.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:16:10 p_l: I'm very surprised by how functional cygwin is 12:16:29 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:16:35 ssh-keys, tramp, vim, emacs, image-magick, ncurses 12:16:42 it's all there... 12:16:58 and it's still winblows 12:17:20 well it's not so winblows with a cygwin installation 12:17:23 fatblueduck: and it has the most atrocious fork()/execve() ever. 12:17:52 that makes me wonder how the fuck it is running (and leaves me not surprised when it breaks on NT6.x from time to time) 12:18:01 p_l: it's good for what it is and I'm happy it's there 12:18:03 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:18:08 :-) 12:18:53 -!- Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 12:19:24 Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has joined #lisp 12:19:33 *p_l* ponders how much API should he base on CLIM 2.2 12:19:50 at least for WWW, I think I should scrap rotational transforms, right? 12:20:53 p_l: why? 12:21:09 jdz: the mess that is known as CSS3 support in browsers? 12:21:39 p_l: JavaScript to the rescue! :) 12:21:54 jdz: there will be a lot of JS, but I hope to avoid Flash :P 12:21:59 http://joncom.be/code/css-clocks/ 12:22:12 -!- coyo [~unf@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: ACTION closes window in a panic] 12:22:13 and making a renderer in JS doesn't make feel nice 12:22:21 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:22:45 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 12:23:18 jdz: if I have all of the files in the same directory, do you think I'll be out of sbcl 1.0.37's load-hang bug? 12:23:25 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 12:23:32 jdz: I'm worried about text rendering. 12:23:43 fatblueduck: don't think so. your bug is because of package conflicts most probably. 12:23:48 arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 12:23:49 fatblueduck: if code is the same, no 12:24:25 fatblueduck: you can try it without slime, only slime causes it to hang 12:27:28 aha sbcl says duck.general does not designate any package 12:27:33 levente_meszaros pasted "Prove the associativity of append using partial evaluation" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97763 12:27:48 -!- aoeu is now known as zkm 12:27:54 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-71-232-16-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 12:28:00 fatblueduck: so, you're using a package before it's defined 12:28:11 -!- zkm is now known as a__p 12:28:28 -!- a__p is now known as a_p 12:28:40 -!- a_p is now known as a-p 12:28:47 -!- a-p is now known as a[p 12:28:49 -!- a[p is now known as a{p 12:29:01 can I do that simpler? 12:29:29 -!- a{p is now known as a{ 12:30:03 a{: please knock it off. 12:31:26 Oy. Sorry. 12:31:32 also, note that the associativity of append does not mean it doesn't mess around with the cons cells, the results are just equal 12:31:56 -!- a{ [~Chatzilla@38.109.136.11] has left #lisp 12:33:35 stassats`: 'there is no class PNG', but PNG should come from ZPNG which is in my sinewave.asd as :depends-op (#:zpng) 12:33:51 depends-on? 12:34:14 fatblueduck: duck.sinewave is not using any png-related packages 12:34:42 Xof: http://paste.lisp.org/display/97760#2 12:35:13 fatblueduck: ZPNG does not define a package named PNG 12:35:22 jdz: does zpng need to be in the components list? 12:35:34 fatblueduck: it defines one named ZPNG. 12:35:37 fatblueduck: no, you must learn the difference between systems and packages 12:35:44 fatblueduck: you were provided an URL 12:35:55 with a funny picture! 12:36:00 fatblueduck: oh, sorry, misread. 12:36:12 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-52.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:36:30 fatblueduck: if you have loaded zpng, you should be able to make instances of the class named ZPNG:PNG. 12:36:38 Xack: it is referring to (make-instance 'png ...) 12:37:32 fatblueduch: is that in a package that imports or uses PNG from ZPNG? 12:38:02 kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-52.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 12:39:11 it is in sinewave.lisp, whose asd file included ':depends-op (#:zpng)' 12:39:38 the ASD file has nothing to do with the packages. 12:39:56 fatblueduck: do you have a C(++) background? 12:39:58 I also added #zpng to the packages.lisp file 12:40:03 Ralith: yes 12:40:13 fatblueduck: think of ASDs as makefiles, and packages as namespaces. 12:40:33 Ralith: okay 12:41:10 -!- beaumonta [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:41:46 -!- lichtblau [~user@i59F7B462.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:41:59 fatblueduck: the :use clause of defpackage is like a global 'using namespace ...' 12:45:09 does C w/o (++) have 'using namespace ...'? 12:45:26 stassats`: C doesn't have namespace at all 12:45:34 it worked thank god 12:45:55 and I didn't have to download cvs/svn anything 12:45:59 ahh thank god 12:46:07 hahahaha 12:46:17 wow all of #lisp helped me 12:46:19 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:46:24 what an awesome channel 12:46:26 I wrote zpng just for you! 12:46:52 Xach: you have to see this gif I made with it I'll load it to imageshack 12:47:20 zpng doesn't make gifs! 12:47:22 longkid [~longkid@118.68.220.160] has joined #lisp 12:47:36 that's what http://xach.com/lisp/skippy/ is for 12:47:41 http://img156.imageshack.us/i/asdfasdf.gif/ 12:47:53 well I used gimp to render the images into gif 12:47:58 use skippy instead! 12:48:03 okay! 12:48:17 i have become mesmerized 12:48:37 fatblueduck: next step is make that into a tiling background, like xach.com/misc/lambda.html 12:48:49 wgl` [~wgl@94.sub-75-204-183.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 12:49:10 wow 12:49:22 (made with skippy and vecto) 12:49:56 -!- ryepup [~user@216.155.97.1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:50:04 there's probably a way to connect the waves so they all connect and move! yes! 12:51:09 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0177-82-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 12:52:11 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 12:52:59 ryepup [~user@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 12:53:04 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-5-42.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:53:30 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 12:57:12 -!- ryepup [~user@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net] has left #lisp 12:58:25 Edward__ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-63-96.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:58:27 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:59:00 ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 13:02:02 ryepup [~user@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 13:06:16 mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has joined #lisp 13:06:46 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:08:00 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440484.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: hugod] 13:09:36 -!- gozek [~quassel@85.52.166.111] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:10:03 stassats`: C alone doesn't have namespaces at all. 13:14:49 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 13:18:06 dys [~andreas@krlh-5f72de13.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:18:35 -!- ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:19:17 brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:21:45 kpreid [~kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 13:21:47 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:22:26 abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 13:30:27 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:31:23 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 13:31:40 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has quit [Quit: Want lisppaste in your channel? Email lisppaste-requests AT common-lisp.net.] 13:31:43 lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:11 straszhm [~troy@sodium.resophonic.com] has joined #lisp 13:34:28 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:38:19 -!- pix4 [~pixel@pD9572510.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:39:30 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:43:43 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:43:53 -!- fatblueduck [~duck@pool-71-104-235-97.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 13:46:22 -!- HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:47:03 myu2_ [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 13:47:07 -!- myu2_ [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:47:12 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:47:29 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:22 -!- jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit [Quit: Boot me gently] 13:48:38 isomer [~isomer@CPE00226b8ab7f9-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 13:50:40 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:54:26 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:55:41 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 13:58:40 postamar [~postamar@x-132-204-242-205.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has joined #lisp 13:59:14 xxtjaxx [~user@p54B747A7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:59:25 coyo [~unf@99-6-151-42.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:59:38 -!- Phoodus [foo@174-26-247-120.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:00:16 Hi everyone here is a small pastebin I hacked together: http://pastebin.com/yu78yiVv but the mocp-now-playing-erc-me function doesnt work kinda doesnt work that much cann one of you help me fix this issue? 14:01:00 xxtjaxx: you need #emacs channel 14:01:40 oh ok this channel is like CMUCL and things only right? 14:01:58 Common Lisp, yes 14:02:07 CMUCL is just an implementation of Common Lisp 14:02:31 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 14:02:34 -!- wgl` [~wgl@94.sub-75-204-183.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:02:41 which is actually dropped sometime before from Debian :( 14:03:06 SBCL took over, mostly 14:03:14 aha 14:04:40 hugod [~hugod@modemcable086.138-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 14:08:42 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 14:08:52 -!- lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 14:10:40 and look where that got us 14:12:11 -!- brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: brandelune] 14:14:58 Krystof: ? 14:16:06 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-gyrwvzllmsasnnow] has left #lisp 14:17:15 oh, it's not necssarily a bad thing 14:19:44 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:19:56 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@200.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:20:24 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:20:42 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:20:55 Krystof: destroying the commercial software industry, mostly 14:21:21 -!- echo-area [~zhujun@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:21:37 oh we did that? All on our own? That's pretty good 14:21:52 not very thoroughly (: 14:23:45 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:27:49 -!- varjag is now known as varjagg 14:28:51 milanj [~milanj_@109.93.103.212] has joined #lisp 14:29:14 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c-1bb4e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:30:31 TDT [~user@173-17-83-225.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 14:30:35 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:32:18 lnostdal [~lnostdal@200.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 14:33:57 -!- longkid [~longkid@118.68.220.160] has left #lisp 14:35:32 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:37:25 *xxtjaxx* is now listening to: 118 The Linux Outlaws - Naughtify OSD (linuxoutlaws.com) Naughtify OSD 14:37:41 xxtjaxx: you may keep that sort of information to yourself. 14:38:50 Joreji [~thomas@91-190.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:41:15 wedgeV [~wedge@rrcs-24-105-134-152.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:41:28 doh ... 14:41:29 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:42:06 marcelinollano [~marcelino@80.30.186.74] has joined #lisp 14:42:06 atually this is just a test for a Lisp function 14:42:26 try it in a test channel. 14:42:35 ok... 14:44:38 turns out, there are still people who like CMUCL 14:44:47 stassats`: my uni? :D 14:44:59 (see slime-devel) 14:46:53 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:47:55 Xach: For your search, for your posts in C.L.L, what algorithm did you end up using to generate the search? 14:47:55 brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:48:10 lichtblau [~user@77-22-100-58-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 14:48:26 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 14:48:48 TDT: a neat engineer's design with bitvector. 14:50:00 TDT: i'm not sure what you mean by "generate"...do you mean, how does searching work? 14:51:34 Xach: More or less yes. The reason is because for my AI class we're supposed to pick an algorithm of our choice, and develop it - although he gives us the data set to utilize. The thing I'm trying to do is kinda kill two birds with one stone since I'm developing some search stuff for fun similar to what you did as a mental exercise. 14:51:55 http://xach.com/naggum/articles/notes.html#search has a high-level overview of how it works 14:52:23 Xantoz [~hejhej@c-1bb4e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 14:52:31 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:54:24 ... erm, have anyone here heard of Web4r? 14:54:37 I know a Michael Web3r 14:54:41 He is a first-rate Lisp hacker 14:55:10 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:55:13 I just found Web4r, a lisp webapp framework o_O 14:55:44 http://web4r.org/ 14:55:45 Is that pronounced like 'rebar' but with a lisp? 14:55:48 Xach: Thanks for the link, I'll take a look at it. 14:55:54 deathdefineslife [~jot_n@h-60-147.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 14:57:56 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:59:02 -!- xxtjaxx [~user@p54B747A7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00:20 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00:52 -!- Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-90-56.iburst.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:00:53 mcdonji [~user@173-203-206-96.static.cloud-ips.com] has joined #lisp 15:01:05 Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-90-56.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:01:35 ejs [~eugen@189-12-95-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 15:02:10 clhs r-m-aref 15:02:11 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for r-m-aref. 15:02:45 so, what's a good name for the inverse of array-row-major-index? 15:02:45 clhs r-m-a 15:02:45 ROW-MAJOR-AREF: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_row_ma.htm 15:04:12 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:05:31 I don't suppose some maniac has managed to write a column-major-aref, have they? 15:05:46 (Okay, it wouldn't actually be that hard to write.) 15:06:45 HG` [~HG@xdslfa142.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:06:57 TeMPOraL [~temporal@wifi-wpa.agh.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 15:07:29 abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has joined #lisp 15:07:53 -!- marcelinollano [~marcelino@80.30.186.74] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:08:14 -!- legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-11-51.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:09:44 ok, so I have sparse tensors with a fairly constant non-zero pattern, and I like to both perform random access and iterate through them in row-major order. How would you do it? 15:09:48 -!- ASau` [~user@77.246.230.151] has quit [Quit: off] 15:10:29 beyond the usual row-compressed sparse array data structure? 15:10:45 "Common Lisp is extremely complicated and ugly." --RMS, 2010 15:11:00 tcr: heh. emacs-devel? 15:11:18 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 15:12:38 This coming from the guy behind emacs lisp? 15:12:42 tcr: has anyone s/Common Lisp/GCC/ yet? 15:12:55 froydnj: the pattern doesn't change too much. I'm using bsearch on a vector of non-zero indices. 15:13:49 xan_ [~xan@adsl-207-214-87-58.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 15:14:42 in its defense, gcc is much less uglier than it used to be, even less uglier than a couple of years ago 15:15:59 -!- isomer [~isomer@CPE00226b8ab7f9-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:16:30 isomer [~isomer@CPE00226b8ab7f9-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 15:17:05 froydnj: Yup "Guile in Emacs" is the thread. It's not long, but except for that quote, I'm not sure I can recommend it 15:17:47 Actually I think it's mostly true :-) 15:18:02 it's almost time for zombie horror movies starring guile. and zombie porn movies about guile in emacs 15:20:19 froydnj: also, I try to avoid linked structures in C++ ;) 15:20:22 pkhuong: unless your row-pattern is consistent, I don't know if you can do much better than that. 15:20:53 heh. I do recall RMS' claims that Guile would be the extention language of the GNU environment... and seeing that .NET took the place... xD 15:21:34 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:21:43 .net is actually pretty good. 15:21:53 They're attributes on paths in a graph. At first I a vector of vectors of ... (with empty vectors when possible), but that expoded my memory. 15:21:56 It would be much kinder to lisp than posix. 15:22:46 pkhuong: so you have a single big index vector? or multiple smaller ones? 15:22:56 Zhivago: .NET is much nicer than JVM, too. 15:23:07 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-251-6.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 15:26:34 brown [~user@nat/google/x-tjdirzbahslsxnbi] has joined #lisp 15:27:02 -!- brown is now known as Guest76266 15:29:20 -!- rread [~rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: rread] 15:29:47 rread [~rread@nat/sun/x-dvoyourjqltzfkdz] has joined #lisp 15:40:07 -!- xan_ [~xan@adsl-207-214-87-58.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:41:16 billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 15:41:16 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Changing host] 15:41:16 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 15:41:45 -!- vtl [~user@nat/redhat/x-yemvdxtgkttidtis] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:42:44 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has quit [Quit: -arividerchi] 15:43:21 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-75-30.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 15:45:37 -!- isomer [~isomer@CPE00226b8ab7f9-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:46:44 -!- ejs [~eugen@189-12-95-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:47:12 -!- hugod [~hugod@modemcable086.138-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: hugod] 15:48:57 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:50:12 -!- Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:50:47 ejs [~eugen@189-12-95-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 15:55:17 alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 15:55:58 dostoyev1ky [sck@oemcomputer.oerks.de] has joined #lisp 15:56:37 Hondenbrokken [~kdghla@084-246-052-113.PN.NL] has joined #lisp 15:56:49 Anyone familiar with Edwin? 15:57:11 -!- CrEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:57:45 Hondenbrokken: it's a #scheme question 15:57:58 -!- hlavaty [~user@77-22-100-58-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:58:35 I know, but nobody answers in the scheme place. 15:58:45 btw scheme is lisp, isn't it? 15:58:49 -!- anekos_ [~anekos@pl289.nas926.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:58:59 Hondenbrokken: unfortunately, their silence doesn't make this place any better. 15:59:04 for some values of lisp 15:59:43 Hondenbrokken: i'd say "forget about edwin and use GNU Emacs" 15:59:51 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 16:00:05 isomer [~isomer@CPE00226b8ab7f9-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 16:00:39 Is scheme easier or what is the most important reason to switch to it? 16:00:51 Is EMACS easier or what is the most important reason to switch to it? 16:00:56 (corrected) 16:01:18 at least it works and is supported 16:01:57 -!- bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:02:54 GNU Emacs seems to come bundled with a emacs lisp? Should I forget about Scheme? 16:03:51 -!- wgl [~wgl@c-98-227-91-74.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:03:51 um 16:03:59 That depends on your goal 16:03:59 Hondenbrokken: emacs lisp should probably not be viewed as an alternative to a proper programming language 16:04:03 gnu-emacs is emacs lisp 16:04:06 it's tolerable for writing emacs extensions 16:04:09 but that's about it 16:04:11 adamvh [~adamvh@c-69-136-131-100.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:04:14 scheme is implemented in gnu-gile 16:04:20 among other places 16:04:54 qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has joined #lisp 16:04:56 Hondenbrokken, someone here have recommended me http://www.nhplace.com/kent/Papers/Technical-Issues.html 16:05:33 Is the language similair? Or should I try to configure emacs with scheme? 16:05:48 That depends on your goal. Do you want to learn Scheme? 16:06:04 Do you want to learn a language in the Lisp family of languages? 16:06:08 No 16:06:11 Do you want to work through SICP 16:06:20 I wanted to learn some lisp variant. 16:06:25 since we're in #lisp, i'd recommend Common Lisp and Emacs (with Slime) 16:06:29 I don't know what SICP means 16:06:40 Hondenbrokken: It's a book using Scheme to teach CS fundamentals 16:06:55 hugod [~hugod@modemcable086.138-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 16:06:59 I heard that scheme is a compact variant of scheme. So I thought I'd learn that. 16:07:01 xan_ [~xan@adsl-207-214-87-58.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 16:07:06 Hondenbrokken: What is your desired target of application for this Lisp variant? Or differently put: What's your area of interest? 16:07:29 Fast algoritmns. 16:07:31 AI 16:07:49 Maybe possibility to make GUI, but that might be java's job. 16:07:58 Learn something about programming. 16:08:12 Seems like Common Lisp is a good choice, and I can recommend to book Paradigms of Artifical Intelligence Programming 16:08:13 Maybe writing an AI for some task. 16:08:22 minion: PAIP? 16:08:23 PAIP: Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming: Case Studies in Common Lisp by Peter Norvig. http://www.cliki.net/PAIP 16:08:36 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:08:41 Thanks. 16:09:06 isn't there a second volume of PAIP? 16:09:07 In this case, use clbuild to get an common lisp environment up and running (on top of GNU Emacs) 16:09:15 minion: clbuild 16:09:15 clbuild: clbuild is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 16:09:32 minion: PCL? 16:09:33 PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 16:09:55 also a good introductory book 16:09:56 What specific feature of CL makes it more suitable than Emacs Lisp or Scheme for me? 16:10:20 That book 16:10:40 that channel! 16:10:49 object orientation if you're into it, lexical scoping and some stuffs there, and performance 16:11:08 -!- mathk [~Miranda@78.155.152.6] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:12:06 -!- nowhere_man [pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:12:49 I have programmed before in other languages. I'm familiair with OO stuff and lexical scoping. 16:13:08 that's great 16:14:03 -!- Edward__ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-63-96.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:14:15 scheme and emacs lisp don't have OO and lexical scoping? 16:14:26 Edward__ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-77-40.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:14:39 scheme doesn't have OO, elisp doesn't have either 16:15:17 -!- isomer [~isomer@CPE00226b8ab7f9-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #lisp 16:15:17 anekos_ [~anekos@pl289.nas926.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:15:19 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 16:15:56 scheme standard doesn't have OO, but that doesn't mean you can't use OO in scheme 16:16:00 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@c-69-136-131-100.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: adamvh] 16:16:04 -!- hohum [dcorbe@apollo.corbe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:16:09 right 16:16:59 TinyCLOS, for example 16:19:39 I am trying to download emacs, but I don't know which file to download. 16:19:40 http://ftp.gnu.org/pub/gnu/emacs/ 16:19:46 I'm using windows Vista 16:19:54 32bit 16:19:59 Hondenbrokken: this is not a good channel for getting an answer about that. 16:20:00 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:20:05 Hondenbrokken: #emacs might be better. 16:21:10 -!- jao [~jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:23:31 longkid [~longkid@118.68.220.160] has joined #lisp 16:23:51 tsuru [~user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:27:10 Hondenbrokken: http://ftp.gnu.org/pub/gnu/emacs/windows/emacs-23.1-bin-i386.zip <-- this may be what you want 16:27:57 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 16:28:52 zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.38.171] has joined #lisp 16:28:58 Yes, that's the version I was looking for. 16:29:18 hohum [dcorbe@apollo.corbe.net] has joined #lisp 16:30:03 -!- TeMPOraL [~temporal@wifi-wpa.agh.edu.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:31:16 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756690.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:16 Hondenbrokken: I personally recommend you google Emacs-W32. Then, assuming you came here because you want to learn about Common Lisp, grab Clozure CL :-) 16:32:15 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 16:33:24 god help the person that tries to learn emacs, slime, _and_ common lisp at the same time 16:34:32 I will soon be learning emacs + CL at the same time. 16:34:42 Still unzipping. 16:35:08 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Client Quit] 16:35:19 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 16:35:51 It's about 50 MB !!!!!!!!!! 16:36:23 well just 39, actually. 16:38:08 lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 16:38:33 rtra [~rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #lisp 16:39:58 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:40:57 -!- brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: brandelune] 16:42:00 sbahra [~sbahra@128.164.19.106] has joined #lisp 16:43:15 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:39 learning how to use packages has been a boon. Things are getting a lot more managable. I'm not polluting the shite out of the running image any more. 16:43:42 _macro [~macro@shiva.mochimedia.net] has joined #lisp 16:44:42 I still don't quite understande the difference in #:foo and :foo, (defpackage :foo ...) (defpackage #:foo ...) they both _seem_ to work the same. 16:45:00 that should be a FAQ 16:45:27 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:45:31 I see both used in the wild 16:48:01 is there some function that will remove "\n" say from an input string? 16:48:55 (string-right-trim '(#\Newline) string) 16:50:53 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:51:07 -!- rtra [~rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:51:59 -!- postamar [~postamar@x-132-204-242-205.xtpr.umontreal.ca] has left #lisp 16:52:14 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:52:27 -!- Joreji [~thomas@91-190.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:52:31 smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:53:09 does someone know how to decrypt the encrypted password sent by the admin of cl.net? 16:53:59 longkid: Run it through GPG? 16:54:00 using gpg 16:54:05 rtra [~rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has joined #lisp 16:54:22 my email client (gnus) does that automagically 16:54:32 yes, gpg --decrypt 16:54:51 but I don't know how to paste the data from email to that command 16:55:25 -!- ejs [~eugen@189-12-95-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:55:35 Save the email body as a text file? 16:56:09 stassats`: ok, thanks. 16:56:23 nyef: as .txt file? 16:56:33 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:56:42 -!- udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-ppjkuvgbxaosggdz] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:57:15 ejs [~eugen@189-12-95-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 16:58:25 myu2 [~myu2@w179122.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp] has joined #lisp 16:59:50 Yeah. Then gpg --decrypt < email.txt or whatever it was. 16:59:58 Unless that's not how it works. 17:00:09 It's been a while since last I tried this. 17:00:43 nyef: why we need a < sign before email.txt? 17:01:09 You might not. 17:01:36 I'm rather assuming that it reads from stdin, but if it takes a filename as a command line argument instead then you won't need the redirection. 17:01:41 -!- egoz [~Egoz@114.79.55.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:02:59 yes, and in the email, the long string appears in many lines. Do I need to remove all new line characters to form a single line? 17:03:12 drewc` [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:20 No. 17:03:33 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 17:03:57 -!- konr [~konrad@201.82.134.220] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:03:59 gpg should know how to find and deal with an encrypted block like that in the middle of plaintext. 17:04:11 ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 17:04:21 hello 17:04:32 nyef: Thanks. I try it now. 17:04:49 -!- rtra [~rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:04:55 CrEddy_ [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 17:05:01 -!- CrEddy_ is now known as CrazyEddy 17:05:25 -!- drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:09:50 -!- potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f662e88-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [] 17:10:43 root` [~user@93.112.124.12] has joined #lisp 17:11:30 -!- root` [~user@93.112.124.12] has left #lisp 17:12:57 nyef: I tried, however I don't receive a password 17:13:12 nyef: the message is: "gpg: decryption failed: secret key not available" 17:13:32 Sounds like you might need to do some more research, then. 17:13:48 Google might help. 17:15:36 nyef: I think I should contact the admin about this problem. 17:17:22 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:50 enthymeme [~kraken@76.242.88.96] has joined #lisp 17:18:10 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@ip68-108-251-45.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:19:22 -!- dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:19:55 -!- Reaver1 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has left #lisp 17:20:42 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:20:51 TeMPOraL [~temporal@83.175.180.213] has joined #lisp 17:23:28 carlocci [~nes@93.37.199.27] has joined #lisp 17:24:14 -!- tltstc [~tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:27:42 maden_ [~maden@198.168.103.254] has joined #lisp 17:30:57 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@128.164.19.106] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:35:25 -!- Borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:37:58 prxq [~mommer@e179051112.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:39:20 hi 17:40:40 Dodek [dodek@wikipedia/Dodek] has joined #lisp 17:42:42 potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f6668f5-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 17:44:09 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:45:56 -!- lichtblau [~user@77-22-100-58-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:46:22 hi prxq 17:46:31 -!- longkid [~longkid@118.68.220.160] has left #lisp 17:46:44 -!- ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:48:22 hi LiamH 17:50:06 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:50:56 rlpowell [~rlpowell@chain.digitalkingdom.org] has joined #lisp 17:52:24 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 17:52:33 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:54:58 ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 17:56:13 ThomasI [~thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 17:58:37 -!- Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:58:51 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:59:20 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-16-247-61.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:00:23 Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 18:01:13 -!- maden_ [~maden@198.168.103.254] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:02:11 TR2N [email@89-180-213-209.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 18:05:00 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 18:05:54 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 18:06:17 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [] 18:06:30 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 18:06:31 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 18:07:18 -!- HG` [~HG@xdslfa142.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:13:05 rme [~rme@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 18:15:17 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 18:15:46 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:17:40 daniel__ [~daniel@p5082DB93.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:19:01 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082BFEC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:19:24 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:20:07 Borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:14 moah [~gnu@188.109.122.201] has joined #lisp 18:22:32 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 18:23:12 -!- daniel__ is now known as daniel 18:25:19 Is there a way to safely sandbox eval, or any interpreters for a safe subset of cl? 18:25:47 Arelius: That topic comes up from time to time, but I haven't seen many answers beyond "it's hard to do". 18:26:01 Arelius: Franz seemed to do it for a while with their telnet repl, but I'm not sure what approach they took. 18:26:13 jao [~jao@83.43.35.213] has joined #lisp 18:26:16 Hmm 18:26:32 Arelius: I'd use a jail at the OS level. 18:26:54 I actually need a pretty small lisp subset small enough that I could write an interpreter personally, but would rather not spend the time if I didn't have to. 18:27:24 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:27:37 why does it need to be sandboxed? 18:28:09 So users can input code. 18:28:19 Mostly just needs to be able to do simple math. 18:28:57 define functions and the like. 18:31:10 well, one could try to make something like .NET's appdomains 18:32:09 That would be ideal, though I'd suspect without compiler support, the security would be wholy. 18:32:18 don't provide recursion, loops, allow only immediate values, limit the usable functions to certain subset, limit the length of the program, what else? 18:32:20 holey? 18:32:29 let's put it this way, what are you trying to guard against? 18:33:01 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 18:33:10 levente_meszaros: OAOO; let the OS's process limits handle that. 18:33:14 Gaurd against using the system maliciouslly, not too woried about memory or CPU usage running amok 18:33:30 like file/network i/o 18:33:32 and the like 18:33:45 Write a simple scheme interpreter 18:34:34 I'm with pkhuong on this: if you're trying to block off access to os resources from cl, you want an os level solution 18:35:23 trying to subset CL is dangerous: there's a lot of holes that you'd need to fill, leave any open, and the attacker has free access 18:35:41 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:35:41 Arelius: to do it properly, you'd need VM-level support. 18:36:02 one that interacts both with OS-level mechanisms and with language 18:36:37 Good evening! 18:37:02 well, for a case where one instance of the runtime runs with the same controls and you aren't trying to separate the code for any reason, OS-level solutions like TOMOYO or SELinux should be enough 18:37:11 hi beach 18:37:19 tcr: That was my thought, I had also thought that a simple scheme interepreter might already exist in cl 18:37:20 rvirding [~chatzilla@h80n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 18:37:30 prxq: Hey, how did the talk go (assuming it has happened)? 18:37:34 -!- Edward__ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-77-40.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:38:02 beach: will not happen this week nor the next, nor the one after that. Soonest in 4 weeks. 18:38:18 that's not nice 18:38:24 Ah, OK. Do you feel prepared though? 18:38:35 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:38:55 beach: I knew that since yesterday, so I stopped. Yes, I think I was prepared enough. 18:39:10 would have been, rather 18:39:42 Good, 'cause I find that when I know what I am talking about, I have no problems given a talk. When not, I get nervous. 18:39:50 loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has joined #lisp 18:45:52 beach: right 18:46:39 *prxq* goes out to chase food 18:46:43 bbl 18:47:29 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:47:57 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 18:51:06 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 18:51:58 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:54:45 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-5-42.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 18:57:26 Draconi [~draconi.d@162.83.94.123] has joined #lisp 18:58:32 -!- xan_ [~xan@adsl-207-214-87-58.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:00:08 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 19:01:35 -!- TeMPOraL [~temporal@83.175.180.213] has quit [Quit: .•«UPP»•.] 19:03:28 -!- TR2N [email@89-180-213-209.net.novis.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:06:23 TR2N [email@89-180-217-41.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 19:09:01 Phoodus [foo@174-26-247-120.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:10:56 -!- ThomasI [~thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit [Quit: Bye Bye!] 19:12:41 anair_84 [~anair_84@wsip-72-215-168-118.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:15:17 mejja [~user@c-68b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 19:16:44 -!- ejs [~eugen@189-12-95-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:18:30 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-135-10.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:57 -!- Draconi [~draconi.d@162.83.94.123] has quit [] 19:19:14 lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-107-225.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 19:19:55 -!- prxq [~mommer@e179051112.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:21:04 ejs [~eugen@189-12-95-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:28 -!- ejs [~eugen@189-12-95-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:22:07 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 19:22:09 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.38.171] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:22:31 zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.38.171] has joined #lisp 19:24:05 Regarding my previous question, is (read ...) safe or can it be made such? 19:24:26 -!- Hondenbrokken [~kdghla@084-246-052-113.PN.NL] has quit [] 19:25:08 Arelius: with disabled read-eval or possibly with custom readtable... 19:25:15 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.38.171] has quit [Client Quit] 19:25:26 it depends on your meaning of "safe" 19:25:32 basically, no 19:25:44 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:26:35 Krystof: I want to read in an s-exp without worrying about it executing arbitrary code. 19:26:39 p_l: read-eval? 19:26:58 Arelius: I meant disabling such stuff as #. 19:27:20 Sure, how do you disable that stuff? 19:30:13 arbitrary code is relatively straightforward to prevent 19:30:57 construct your own readtable, based on the standard readtable, binding *read-eval* to NIL and/or removing all macro functions and dispatch macro functions you consider unsafe 19:31:04 What else is a problem? 19:31:20 reading very large data structures could cause memory exhaustion 19:31:26 Sure 19:31:37 I'm ok to ignore that. 19:31:47 Guthur [~Michael@host213-122-221-177.range213-122.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:31:50 reading internable objects will cause side-effects and might allow information leakage 19:32:03 internable objects? 19:32:12 -!- rme [~rme@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has left #lisp 19:32:24 HG` [~HG@xdslex215.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:32:25 reading :foo causes the string "FOO" to be interned in the keyword package, if it isn't already 19:33:02 Hmm, I see 19:33:15 nowhere_man [pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:51 Joreji [~thomas@91-190.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 19:35:13 -!- nowhere_man [pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:39:20 nowhere_man [pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:42:43 adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-243-142.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:42:59 Edward__ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-50-116.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:45:04 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 19:45:07 -!- nowhere_man [pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:46:08 slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 19:47:21 nowhere_man [pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:47:55 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:48:10 -!- mcdonji [~user@173-203-206-96.static.cloud-ips.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:49:08 -!- Edward__ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-50-116.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:49:16 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:49:35 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 19:49:48 Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@2001:ba8:1f1:f0ed:216:5eff:fe00:16b] has joined #lisp 19:50:03 Edward__ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-4-82.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:53:26 ejs [~eugen@55-83-95-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:22 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:55:35 -!- ejs [~eugen@55-83-95-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:56:42 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 19:56:55 merl15__ [~merl@188-22-31-144.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 20:01:09 When SBCL tells me "Control stack guard page unprotected," what does that mean? 20:01:37 stack overflow 20:02:24 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 20:03:47 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 20:06:09 OsamaBinWOG [~OsamaBinW@66-168-47-22.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:07:22 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.67.196] has joined #lisp 20:07:50 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:08:22 -!- WOG [~OsamaBinW@66-168-47-22.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:08:33 -!- loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:08:53 -!- Joreji [~thomas@91-190.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:09:57 xan_ [~xan@adsl-207-214-87-58.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:10:31 peterbb [~peterbb@ves1-1x-dhcp356.uio.no] has joined #lisp 20:11:16 quodlibetor [~user@146.95.21.166] has joined #lisp 20:11:35 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:12:33 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:15:06 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 20:15:25 jsnell: Is there some way to trap this (sorry, I'm remotely debugging someone else is running this on a machine I can't get to)? Seems like this "INFO" condition isn't something trapped by *break-on-signals* 20:15:25 I wonder -- can you guarantee that :after methods for a genfun will run? Would you need a custom method combination that uses unwind-protect? 20:15:44 Joreji [~thomas@91-190.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 20:15:55 jlt99 [~m48@230.Red-88-7-159.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:16:34 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:19 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 20:17:35 Russel-Athletic [~engelzz@d174.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has joined #lisp 20:17:38 hiho 20:18:14 as i was advised last time, regexp should not be used for parsing. now i want to parse the output of xrandr, how do i do it the "right" way? 20:19:10 regexp 20:19:29 rpg: it's just a message printed from c, iirc 20:19:41 foom: hahaha 20:19:54 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-208-145.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 20:20:08 jsnell: OK, so I probably need to do some probing around to find where this is happening.... Was hoping I could just grab a backtrace, 20:20:13 Russel-Athletic: Regexes are okay for that kind of parsing, I guess. It's when you want to parse somewhat more structured data that it starts to become problematic. 20:20:48 ok 20:20:48 is the message being printed the only symptom you see? 20:22:05 sykopomp: maybe use an around method? 20:22:18 (unwind-protect (call-next-method) (clean-up)) 20:22:36 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-5-42.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:23:36 -!- HG` [~HG@xdslex215.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:23:42 Wait, wait... parse the output of xrandr? Why? 20:23:52 That seems like the cheap way out. 20:26:12 jsnell: No, from there we get to a full-fledged crash after a corruption warning. 20:26:28 -!- deathdefineslife [~jot_n@h-60-147.A163.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [] 20:26:54 -!- kvsari [~kvsari@203.171.93.21.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:27:00 -!- Russel-Athletic [~engelzz@d174.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:27:15 jsnell: I probably need to dig deeper --- I have been trying to help someone who is not a lisper since the alternative is to load my machine up with some horrible pile of postgres stuff... 20:27:16 sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has joined #lisp 20:27:26 jsnell: CLSQL seems to be going pear-shaped. 20:27:29 rpg: Are you doing something like a handler-bind or whatnot to deal with errors automatically? 20:28:32 nyef: I will check, but not to my best recollection. This is some data processing code that I originally wrote and then an intern extended substantially. Quite possibly there's something where naive recursion is blowing up. 20:30:31 Iterating over enormous database... 20:31:00 Unfortunately, it's blowing straight into the ldb, so no backtrace for me to debug remotely. 20:31:03 -!- hugod [~hugod@modemcable086.138-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: hugod] 20:31:11 foom: ITYM "use the CLX implementation of the RandR protocol" 20:31:12 *rpg* starts installing postgres... 20:31:18 you can get a backtrace from ldb 20:31:27 zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.38.171] has joined #lisp 20:32:26 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.38.171] has quit [Client Quit] 20:32:46 zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.38.171] has joined #lisp 20:36:43 -!- saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: saikat] 20:37:07 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:39:40 jsnell: according to the guy who's running this, he gets nothing in response to "ba" 20:41:55 Krystof: I'm not seeing a CLX implementation of RandR yet. 20:42:18 *adeht* wonders if emacs.devel got stuck in April Fools 20:42:36 That said, I just spent a bit of time looking to see if I had documentation or headers for creating such. 20:42:56 where was this passage that you can't specialize methods of built-in generic functions on built-in classes? 20:43:52 marioxcc [~user@200.56.154.32] has joined #lisp 20:46:32 Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has joined #lisp 20:46:42 -!- xan_ [~xan@adsl-207-214-87-58.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:47:13 Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 20:48:26 ejs [~eugen@109-167-4-9.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 20:48:32 Hrm. I seem to have documentation for the 1.0/1.1 protocol... and my server reports supporting 1.2. 20:52:08 xan_ [~xan@adsl-207-214-87-58.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:52:24 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756690.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:53:57 -!- Joreji [~thomas@91-190.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:54:21 stassats`: no, :around method doesn't quite cover it. The idea would be to generally unwind-protect :after methods. Using the :around method doesn't let you extend the cleanup form part. 20:55:16 clean-up can be a generic function as well 20:56:39 cognizant-cog [~chatzilla@h47.41.117.75.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 20:57:58 alexsuraci_ [~alexsurac@32.168.51.128] has joined #lisp 21:01:31 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-42-153.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:03:47 -!- moah [~gnu@188.109.122.201] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:06:56 -!- cognizant-cog [~chatzilla@h47.41.117.75.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.8/20100214235838]] 21:07:33 -!- jlt99 [~m48@230.Red-88-7-159.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has left #lisp 21:10:46 prxq [~mommer@e179051112.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:11:50 -!- Guthur [~Michael@host213-122-221-177.range213-122.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:12:47 stassats`: That could work, actually. Not as nice as being able to slap extra :after methods in, but it's not too bad :) 21:12:48 Guthur [~Michael@host213-122-221-177.range213-122.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:13:04 sykopomp: (defmethod :around ... (unwind-protect (call-next-method) ...))? 21:13:18 Ralith: see stassats`' response above. 21:13:20 +/- some ellipses 21:14:15 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 21:14:57 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:15:02 xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-42-153.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:15:47 hi 21:15:59 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:42 Avada [~Kedavra@unaffiliated/avada] has joined #lisp 21:21:14 -!- Avada [~Kedavra@unaffiliated/avada] has quit [Client Quit] 21:21:34 Avada [~Kedavra@unaffiliated/avada] has joined #lisp 21:21:58 1 question: common lisp or scheme and why? 21:22:23 Common Lisp, because this channel is about Common Lisp 21:22:50 excellent reasoning, time to learn common lisp 21:23:12 just don't go to #scheme 21:23:12 Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.204] has joined #lisp 21:23:15 Avada: I'd say Common Lisp, because the implementations are at least similar to each other (one standard to rule them all etc.), however scheme might be also quite nice - but expect huge differences between libraries available between different variants. 21:23:23 -!- xan_ [~xan@adsl-207-214-87-58.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:23:29 Lord-Harlot [Serenity@adsl-83-100-180-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #lisp 21:24:50 tmh [~user@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 21:24:55 Greetings lispers 21:25:19 I can tell you're a PHP programmer 21:25:32 We don't deal with your kind here 21:25:57 Hello tmh. 21:26:01 Hey nyef 21:26:07 -!- quodlibetor [~user@146.95.21.166] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:26:25 um, yes we do 21:26:46 We're smug, not arrogant. 21:27:16 Remember, Jesus came for the sinners and we have similarly come for those that don't use lisp. :-P 21:27:17 speak for yourself 21:27:28 well, most of us 21:27:43 *nyef* prepares to weigh in on the Roman Marynchak compiler-internals manual thread. 21:28:00 Isn't Jesus the person who made programming? 21:28:17 -!- drewc` is now known as drewc 21:28:19 what's that? a time for silly talks? 21:28:37 I heard that from a lisp programmer 21:28:45 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o drewc 21:29:02 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440484.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 21:29:06 -!- Lord-Harlot [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has been kicked from #lisp by drewc (trolololo Kicked by drewc) 21:29:06 Lord-Harlot [Serenity@adsl-83-100-180-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #lisp 21:29:08 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 21:29:56 drewc: btw, what is stopping Cliki.net from being moved to ucliki? I finally sat down and looked through the code, and it looks veeery nice 21:30:52 xan_ [~xan@adsl-207-214-87-58.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:18 That was not nice 21:31:21 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 21:31:41 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:46 Never seen such abuse of power 21:32:26 If I was the leader and owner of this channel 21:32:28 p_l: a) the code is far from being nice... it works, but i wouldn't sign off on it. b) I personally have moved on from UCW and plan to port ucliki to my new libraries. c) nobody has volunteered to do the work 21:32:31 Jesus would be here 21:32:31 Lord-Harlot: apparenty now is not the time for silly talks. 21:32:35 and he would protect me 21:32:47 PROTECT ME FROM THE POWER ABUSE 21:32:53 LORD I PRAY 21:32:54 drewc: well, it's nice compared to some of the stuff I read lately, so I'm biased :) 21:32:56 -!- Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-culnudketvouxjnp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:32:56 GIVE ME THE POWER 21:33:07 DISMISS THE ABUSE FROM THIS CHANNEL 21:33:18 drewc: and it was less about the code itself to how it would function in practice. 21:33:20 -!- drewc has set mode +b *!Serenity@* 21:33:27 -!- Lord-Harlot [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has been kicked from #lisp by drewc (Kicked by drewc) 21:33:36 btw, by new libraries you meant lol/rofl etc? 21:33:37 drewc: are you still working with something UCW-derived? 21:33:49 p_l: nope, i mean new 21:33:56 ryepup: nope 21:34:00 drewc: oh, plase tell :) 21:34:29 nus [~nus@unaffiliated/nus] has joined #lisp 21:34:34 Lord-Harlot [S@adsl-83-100-180-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #lisp 21:34:43 I COMPELL YOU BY THE POWER OF JEBUS 21:34:55 *p_l* is currently on crossroads regarding his approach, since he doesn't get well with continuation-based web and would like something simple. 21:34:56 I HAVE A BUS AND I CAN TAKE YOU ALL TO ANOTHER CHANNEL 21:34:59 ... bad rhyme. 21:35:01 FOR ANOTHER LANGUAGE 21:35:08 GET RID OF LISP 21:35:14 IT IS THE DEVILS WORK 21:35:18 huh? 21:35:20 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:35:30 PHP IS BETTER I TELL YOU 21:35:31 Lord-Harlot: please, take yourself to another channel 21:35:36 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 21:35:39 no ops around? 21:35:41 -!- drewc has set mode +b *!*@adsl-83-100-180-137.karoo.KCOM.COM 21:35:46 -!- Lord-Harlot [S@adsl-83-100-180-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has left #lisp 21:36:45 p_l: i have some libraries that come together to form a servicable platform for web development. I plan to release them, but currently have other priorities that prevent me from having the time :) 21:36:46 huh? did he return? 21:37:13 Russel-Athletic [~engelzz@d174.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has joined #lisp 21:37:16 hiho, me again 21:37:28 drewc: something much different? 21:37:39 p_l: very different from anything out there 21:37:41 adamvh [~adamvh@c-69-136-131-100.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:37:50 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@c-69-136-131-100.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:38:14 perhaps i am thinking wrong or i just don't know how but here is my problem: 21:38:19 I'm personally leaning towards getting a common protocol on top of hunchentoot/tpd2/whatever and use it to stack different modules, a'la Rack. 21:38:27 drewc: macro-defining-macro-defining macros? 21:38:58 i want to have a variable called set-to which should be a reference to either list1 or list2, depending on some dynamic condition (some header i found previously) 21:39:08 how do i do the assigning of set-to? 21:39:30 nyef: on top of an almost pure-functional dispatch mechanism, with support for explictly delimited continuations and pattern matching on http requests 21:39:35 Russel-Athletic: the usual way 21:39:36 anyone proficient in .htaccess? 21:39:52 i am not sure what the usual way is :) setq? 21:39:55 minion: tell Russel-Athletic about gentle 21:39:55 Russel-Athletic: please look at gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 21:40:15 Russel-Athletic: setq or better setf, yes 21:40:37 (defvar *set-to*) (setf *set-to* ...) 21:40:37 ok then i have to look into what i am doing wrong :) 21:40:39 Russel-Athletic: do us all a favour and read an introductory text before asking what are extremely basic questions :) 21:40:45 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:40:51 i read an instructory text 21:40:54 gentle introduction got awesome chapter on applicative programming 21:41:18 and i asked because the setq i did, didn't work 21:43:53 Russel-Athletic: i'm willing to bet it did exactly what it's supposed to, and it's a misunderstanding on your part due to a misinterpretation of your introductory text, based on attempting to interpret lisp in the context of your previous favorite language rather than face it on its own terms :P 21:44:16 it could be 21:45:01 -!- alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:46:05 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:46:54 -!- abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:47:02 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 21:47:25 -!- ejs [~eugen@109-167-4-9.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:47:32 drewc: anyway, what do you think of my idea for common API to webservers? 21:48:22 based on macapi? 21:48:56 stassats`: dunno about any certain API, but my idea came from experience with Rack, which is the prevalent API for that in Ruby world. 21:50:10 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:46 but it would be nice to for example have a single library ("framework" even) to deal with, for example, ExtJS remoting, another for SOAP entrypoints, and another for "normal" web, all in one app, without having to port them to whatever webserver/framework combo you're using. 21:50:49 p_l: I know I'm late on this, but thanks for your answer 21:52:16 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:56:01 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 21:58:15 -!- qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has left #lisp 21:58:50 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:59:33 billstclair [~billstcla@dsl-65-219-212-221.taconic.net] has joined #lisp 21:59:33 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@dsl-65-219-212-221.taconic.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:59:33 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 22:00:28 p_l: don't interest me at all, i've already got such a beast :P 22:01:12 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 22:02:54 drewc: heh. then I'd like to see it :D 22:03:05 -!- alexsuraci_ [~alexsurac@32.168.51.128] has quit [Quit: alexsuraci_] 22:03:06 lisppaste: url? 22:03:06 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 22:04:30 drewc pasted ""Request Context : For The Web!" - a simple layered API over HTTP requests" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97782 22:04:45 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:05:18 p_l: ^ 22:06:38 hmm.. I just noticed Kent Pitman's site has a link for X3J13 document archives. unfortunately, the site seems unreachable.. has anyone got a mirror link or or copies of the docs? 22:07:20 adeht, archive.org? 22:07:35 -!- Avada [~Kedavra@unaffiliated/avada] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:07:53 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.67.196] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:08:01 well it was an ftp site.. don't think archive.org archives that :) 22:08:21 drewc: nice 22:09:56 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:12:09 drewc: btw, I recall some comparison between continuation libraries for CL done by you. There were two libs related to continuations and what kind of code they generated. 22:13:00 do you remember maybe? ( or simply point me to the one you used the most, since I recall that one having much nicer code generated ^_-) 22:13:10 -!- nowhere_man [pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:13:19 nowhere_man [pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 22:14:23 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0177-82-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:14:30 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@188.45.38.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:14:35 adeht, ftp://ftp.parc.xerox.com/pub/cl/ is reachable. 22:16:05 ah, thank you 22:17:00 drewc, "layers"? 22:17:12 Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-zpdtqhfgusflgnqx] has joined #lisp 22:17:23 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.204] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:17:41 p_l: yes, i remember. Both libraries are crap :P 22:18:02 hah 22:18:18 *p_l* finally started getting some grasp on CPS xD 22:18:23 p_l: cl-cont is a CPS transformer, which means bloated and hard to debug code created via a code walker. 22:19:01 p_l: arnesi (or the cl-delico fork) is an interpreter that produces small code via a code walker that is intpreter at run time. 22:19:15 notice the common theme, code walkers. 22:19:37 interpreted in this case meaning "walk a data structure full of closures to call"? 22:19:44 no 22:20:20 interpreted means walk a bunch of data structures that represent code and interpret them. 22:20:35 (closures may or may not be used in arnesi call/cc) 22:20:38 well that gives me a few years' reading material :) 22:21:07 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 22:21:11 i think both approaches are shite, fwiw, but if i had to choose would go with arnesi 22:21:34 i, of course, have a completely different approach that avoids a code walker 22:21:38 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [] 22:22:08 drewc: care to elaborate? 22:22:57 p_l: i'm looking for the most recent paste 22:23:47 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:24:15 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:25:13 -!- mtd [~martin@ops-13.xades.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:25:16 drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-30.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:25:51 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.66.134] has joined #lisp 22:26:52 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 22:27:22 but i simply use the Continuation Monad and force the programmer to be explicit about which parts of the computation participate in the continuation. 22:28:48 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:34:09 p_l: http://paste.lisp.org/display/92830 <--- there's some older code.. nothing much has changed save the naming and the integration with the request context and dispatcher mechanisms 22:35:04 well, actually a lot has changed 22:35:28 but the continuation monad is the continuation monad is the continuation monad. 22:37:36 ok 22:39:05 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:39:51 drewc, did you ever release it? 22:40:00 I suppose you depend on proper tail calls 22:40:06 Fare: nope, and nope. 22:40:26 Fare: no need for proper tail call when you don't convert to CPS. 22:40:42 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [] 22:40:46 uh, doesn't the continuation monad do that? 22:40:49 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 22:41:04 convert to CPS the bits you want to use continuation. 22:41:04 no, not quite 22:41:26 is it more akin to a trampoline? 22:42:00 Fare: neither. 22:42:11 I'm sad Avada left, I have particularlly good insight on his question Common Lisp v Scheme 22:43:10 I feel that with scheme there is less people at any given point trying to do pratical things with it. 22:43:11 rabuf [~chatzilla@ip68-230-168-93.mc.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:43:15 grrr. make test was working. Why does the non-enforcing build suddenly display errors??? 22:43:31 It's so hard to get a real program done, as you have to constantally invent things that exist in CL. 22:43:46 oh -- dependency on ASDF or not! 22:43:46 Fare: essentially, the monadic container is akin to a stack frame, and we wrap computations we want participating in the continuation with such a container 22:44:22 I'll think about it when there's sugar in my system. 22:44:43 -!- Russel-Athletic [~engelzz@d174.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:45:08 SLIME for instance, Also object persistance like Allegro cache 22:45:23 These hardly exist in the scheme ecosystem 22:45:26 Arelius: obviously you've never been near PLT, because while that might hold true for r(n < 6)rs, it's not at all true of any given scheme implementation 22:45:54 I feel chicken is the most pratical 22:45:58 Fare: jrmarshall, mdswank, myself and drewc have pasted around quite a number of implementations over the last ~4 years. 22:46:10 But nothing exists similar to SLIME or allegro cache on PLT 22:46:18 *Fare* is off for #10R61453 22:46:47 Arelius: there are swank backends for some schemes. 22:46:50 pkhuong, I still haven't caught up :( 22:46:59 pkhuong: not PLT 22:47:01 afaik 22:47:01 SLIME is all elisp. 22:47:05 Scheme48 22:47:37 Also if I recall, PLT's compiler is sub-par 22:47:38 fatblueduck [~duck@pool-71-104-235-97.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:47:47 PLT has a lot of niceties though. 22:47:52 there's quack for mzscheme. 22:47:57 Scheme48 was quite popular at some point, I think, it was also considered to be one of the better ones, I think? 22:48:09 quack doesn't compare to slime, I've used it alot. 22:48:18 p_l: yeah 22:48:21 palter_ [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:217:f2ff:fee7:72d7] has joined #lisp 22:48:26 anyways, bbiab 22:49:00 drscheme is a very nice system. 22:49:12 But I'd perfer to use Emacs. 22:49:25 does it have emacs key-bindings? 22:49:36 Dunno, it was too hard to find out. 22:49:51 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:50:00 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 22:50:14 Also, PLT's ffi was a pain imo 22:50:28 Which is why I choose to use chicken. 22:50:43 chicken... yummy 22:50:54 (and yes, it was about implementation ^_-) 22:51:07 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h80n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 22:51:09 Having made the change though, the largest problem imo is having seperate namespaces for functions and variables. 22:51:16 in cl 22:51:27 how is that a problem? 22:51:29 -!- palter_ [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:217:f2ff:fee7:72d7] has quit [Client Quit] 22:51:34 -!- adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-243-142.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:51:36 I really enjoyed being able to treat them the same 22:51:46 it isn't a problem, so much as an irration. 22:52:00 pebkac 22:52:09 Arelius: you've done a lot of opining here, but said nothing convincing or original... what are you trying to say exactly? 22:52:11 it's a problem for me in Scheme 22:52:15 Fade: true 22:52:27 drewc: nothing original certinally. 22:52:52 But using scheme was too difficult. 22:53:07 And not due to the language 22:53:44 Anyways, I said nothing important, so feel free to ignore it. 22:53:47 Arelius: well, i can't speak for the channel, but repeating and rehahsing CL vs Scheme is not something that interests me in any way. I'm personally going to tune you out and go back to work, but i thought i'd voice my irritation :) 22:53:50 when I was looking at scheme, the thing that struck me was there seemed to be different libs handling the same functions in the various implementations. 22:54:05 heyhey [~4f9ea4d4@gateway/web/freenode/x-oledheqdzfldfvou] has joined #lisp 22:54:07 cross-compatibility seemed to be a big issue. 22:54:11 Fade: Indeed 22:54:21 Fade: that's the biggest thing that made me look into CL 22:54:31 drewc: Aight, I'll shut up now. 22:54:33 but it didn't seem to be particularly arid in terms of the libraries available. 22:55:12 that said, i'm with drewc. 22:55:34 Fade: cross-implementation compatibility is something I'm still very interested with CL, though I'm now looking more at cross-library stuff :) 22:56:10 well, i've certainly found a lot of bugs in my own systems just by shaking them out in both sbcl and ccl. 22:56:23 hi, what language had cross-compatibility problems? 22:56:33 scheme 22:56:38 ok 22:57:33 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:59:06 pinterface [~pinterfac@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has joined #lisp 23:00:14 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 23:01:15 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 23:01:16 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 23:01:45 -!- smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:02:35 -!- mejja [~user@c-68b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:02:48 -!- rabuf [~chatzilla@ip68-230-168-93.mc.at.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:03:13 -!- levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:03:15 rabuf [~chatzilla@ip68-230-168-93.mc.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:02 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 23:06:31 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:06:50 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:217:f2ff:fee7:72d7] has joined #lisp 23:07:46 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:217:f2ff:fee7:72d7] has quit [Client Quit] 23:08:02 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:217:f2ff:fee7:72d7] has joined #lisp 23:08:12 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109.93.103.212] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:08:26 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 23:08:27 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:217:f2ff:fee7:72d7] has quit [Client Quit] 23:09:21 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-37-251-6.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:12:42 does anyone know of any good cl libs for doing filtering 23:12:44 hmmmm [~no@pool-72-79-128-216.sctnpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:12:49 i need a good high and low pass filter 23:13:00 hey, why does format need the 't' as the first parameter? 23:13:06 also where does the t come from? 23:13:10 clhs format 23:13:10 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_format.htm 23:13:10 is t implied? 23:13:18 hmmmm: rtfm ^ 23:13:20 ah, i've been looking for a lisp reference site 23:13:32 a good referencing site* 23:13:42 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:13:51 clhs 22.3 23:13:52 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_c.htm 23:14:08 there's no better reference 23:14:11 so i take it variables are implied into existence? 23:14:48 i can't make any sense out of that sentence 23:14:57 PuffTheMagic: Take bordeaux-fft and do your manipulation in the frequency domain? 23:15:03 what..? 23:15:10 how can you not 23:15:25 i mean, if say for example 'blah' is passed as the first param of format 23:15:25 minion: tell hmmmm about gentle 23:15:26 hmmmm: please see gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 23:15:41 is blah a valid variable even if not declared with a Let statement? 23:15:59 blah must be a stream or string with a fill pointer 23:16:07 nyef: i am using bordeaux-fft already 23:16:13 hmmmm: can i suggest an introductory text? the symbols T and NIL introduced very early in most texts 23:16:32 i still think it would be better to put it though a .1hz highpass 23:16:34 wgl [~wgl@175.sub-75-204-33.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 23:16:36 I'm looking at that book you just supplied 23:16:38 to remove the DC drift from the eeg amp 23:16:47 has anyone heard of porting sbcl to openbsd/amd64 ? 23:16:57 or symbols T and NIL, denoting standard output and a string which will be returned respectively 23:17:17 okay, so T is a symbol that's 'always there' 23:17:51 -!- Soulman [~kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo http://www.kvirc.net/] 23:17:51 T is a constant, it denotes truth 23:17:58 alright 23:18:08 why can't i just use the integer constant 1? 23:18:21 for what? 23:18:22 and NIL denotes falsity, right? 23:18:22 hmmmm: RTFM please! 23:19:00 one quick question 23:19:11 identifiers are case sensitive right? 23:19:20 yes 23:19:25 hrm 23:19:27 but they're upcased by default 23:19:32 you keep referring to t as T 23:19:38 however in some examples i see on the wiki page it's t 23:19:41 and t works in clisp 23:20:09 rtfm? 23:20:14 alright alright 23:20:19 it's just the the M is a huge book 23:20:25 i don't really want to go hardcore just yet 23:20:48 so you'd rather waste our time than use yours? 23:21:00 why not. :-p 23:21:53 minion: help minion 23:22:09 well, because i've typed '/kick hmmmm rtfm!' at least 3 times now. I'll hit RET next time :P 23:22:24 sheesh 23:22:27 >.> 23:23:07 enn [~eli@codeanddata.com] has joined #lisp 23:23:30 _ 23:23:33 slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:42 minion: tell heyhey about lisp 23:23:42 heyhey: have a look at lisp: "Lisp in Small Pieces". This book covers Lisp, Scheme and other related dialects, their interpretation, semantics and compilation. To sum it up in a few figures: 500 pages, 11 chapters, 11 interpreters and 2 compilers. 23:23:52 besides, drewc, you have the option of not responding :) 23:24:04 so i wouldn't say i'm wasting your time just like that, you are wasting your time as well 23:24:08 if you call it a waste 23:24:10 -!- hmmmm [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has been kicked from #lisp by drewc (Kicked by drewc) 23:24:25 sigh 23:25:24 though shalt not highlight my nick to tell me not to respond :D 23:26:23 those symbols for the eyes... do they have a more mainstream use? 23:27:22 look of disapproval? 23:27:41 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 23:27:52 right 23:27:52 mainstream as in hexadecimal codepoint ? 23:27:58 http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/%E0%B2%A0_%E0%B2%A0 23:28:19 I guess so, billitch 23:28:49 -!- merl15__ [~merl@188-22-31-144.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:29:16 hm i guess my font sucks 23:29:21 -!- herbieB [~herbie@u15287329.onlinehome-server.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:29:42 "is a Kannadan letter. Kannada is one of the major Dravidian languages of India." thanks drewc 23:30:55 herbieB [~herbie@u15287329.onlinehome-server.com] has joined #lisp 23:31:21 -!- prxq [~mommer@e179051112.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:31:39 And here I'd have thought that Kannada was in the Americas, not the Indies. 23:31:41 levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 23:32:07 -!- levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Client Quit] 23:32:23 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:33:08 O_o 23:34:02 -!- christoph_debian [~christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:34:39 nyef: it was all started by Columbus 23:35:06 OK, I'm sorry -- stupid question and I promise I'll put something in INSTALL about this if you have mercy on me --- how do I install sbcl so that it's own functions are findable with M-.? 23:35:18 Is there some way to tell install.sh to copy the source files? 23:35:22 ... I've heard it said that the only good thing about Columbus' little trip was that he brought back cacao for the making of chocolate. 23:35:47 christoph_debian [~christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 23:36:26 you install it in any way you want, and then set (logical-pathname-translations "SYS") to the right places 23:36:43 stassats`: Ah. 23:37:43 hsrt [trsh@93-141-70-64.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 23:38:07 I'm currently of the lightly-held opinion that SBCL should ship cores with the SYS:SRC; translations -unset-. 23:38:12 nyef, what about tomato, potato, chili peppers? 23:38:26 stassats`: so it's specifically set a translation of sys:src;**;*.*.* got it. 23:38:58 nyef: turkey, parrots, coca, maze 23:39:52 -!- christoph_debian [~christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:39:54 Fare: I'm not entirely sure what my opinion of the trip in question is, but given the trouble involving potatoes and corn throughout history... 23:40:13 I think it would be nice to remove restrictions on logical pathnames. 23:40:23 They are not very usable right now. 23:40:41 (Potatoes being involved in at least one famine, corn just generally not being very nutritious according to some sources, etc.) 23:41:00 what about quinchona? 23:41:07 (err... according to some sources [citation needed], etc.) 23:41:23 Again, I don't have an informed opinion here. 23:41:26 wow macros are pretty cool. 23:41:45 neat feature 23:41:48 sorry for that columbus arc 23:42:32 stassats`: No, the ark was that other sailor  Noah. 23:42:32 sellout, memo from fusss: feasible-p THREAD-ID or similar way to get the "PID" of a thread? analogous to thread-name. 23:42:45 Ack. 23:42:55 *sellout* hides from b-t questions. 23:43:41 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:44:21 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 23:44:43 hum. Apparently, XCVB's non-enforcing Makefile does not install ASDF for you (there being no standard way right now), so you have to provide a setup file that does. 23:45:00 I should probably create a standard such file... 23:46:22 -!- felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has quit [Quit: felipe] 23:47:17 brandelune [~suzume@pl571.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:47:39 minion: memo for fusss Why do you want thread-id? Why not just hold a reference to it  or are you really looking for the maybe-existing Unix PID? 23:47:40 well i'm not interested in the maybe existing unix pid 23:47:50 damn minion 23:48:26 christoph_debian [~christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 23:48:41 member:minion: memo for fusss: Why do you want thread-id? Why not just hold a reference to it  or are you really looking for the maybe-existing Unix PID? 23:48:45 gah! 23:48:53 minion: memo for fusss Why do you want thread-id? Why not just hold a reference to it  or are you really looking for the maybe-existing Unix PID? 23:48:53 well i'm not interested in the maybe existing unix pid 23:49:04 Sorry for the noise :/ 23:49:15 minion: memo for fusss: Why do you want thread-id? Why not just hold a reference to it  or are you really looking for the maybe-existing Unix PID? 23:49:16 Remembered. I'll tell fusss when he/she/it next speaks. 23:49:37 minion and Colloquy were conspiring against me. 23:49:53 if minion isn't interested, then should be no thread-id 23:50:17 nyef: you are correct about corn. Unless processed properly, corn is too low in usable niacin. See "Nixtamalization" for details. 23:51:34 Right. And my argument about potatoes is somewhat disingenuous, given that the only event that springs to mind is the Irish Potato Famine, and that wasn't exactly the -potatoes- fault. 23:51:38 minion: tell heyhey about niacin 23:51:38 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``niacin''. 23:51:51 minion: What does niacin stand for? 23:51:51 Neuropodium Interrelatedly Argentojarosite Cliseometer Irrationally Nitrosification 23:52:06 sounds convincing 23:53:01 "Niacin, also known as vitamin B3 or nicotinic acid, is an organic compound with the formula C5H4NCO2H" 23:53:14 I see something about a place for brains to speak to crowds, another something about gold, and something about nitrogen, but what's the "-jarosite" bit and what's the "clise-" prefix? 23:53:52 argentum is for silver 23:54:03 stassats`: So it is. My mistake. 23:54:21 drewc: Lovely. "nicotinic acid". Sounds like an opening for a pro-smoking troll. 23:56:30 <_3b`> seems to be a rock and 'inclination' respectively 23:56:32 nyef: it's the same stuff actually, nicotinic acid is an oxidised nicotine, and i'm willing to bet that heavy smokers are significantly less likely to suffer from pellegra :) 23:57:47 _3b`: Ah, right, the -site suffix should have suggested a mineral / rock. 23:58:04 drewc: Too bad about all the particulate damage, huh? 23:58:20 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:58:27 saikat_ [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:58:33 *straszhm* wants to defmethod, where the specialization should fire when the argument is a vector of things... 23:58:40 nyef: can't win them all :) 23:58:54 straszhm: specialize on VECTOR ? 23:59:14 -!- saikat_ [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:59:15 vector of myclass 23:59:28 maybe i'm thinking in c++ 23:59:42 C++ has defmethod? 23:59:55 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483AD7A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:59:55 you can define a class 'vector of your another class'