00:01:19 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-5-42.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 00:01:23 Is there a way for me to get a symbol from a string where (eql 'foo (intern "foo")) will be t? 00:01:34 because as it stands this is not the case 00:01:41 fusss [~kumi@li63-187.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 00:01:55 package "SB-EXT" not found. what have I broken? 00:02:36 fusss: Accidentally fired up cmucl instead of sbcl? 00:02:38 (eql 'foo (find-symbol "FOO")) might be T with your read-table 00:02:59 HAHAHAHA 00:03:04 ouch ouch 00:03:09 clozure rather 00:03:21 stassats`: but that requires 'foo to be previously defined, right? 00:03:44 well, if it's not defined you'd use INTERN 00:03:55 but in this expression it's interned when reading 'foo 00:03:59 adamvh: By the time the call to FIND-SYMBOL is executed, the symbol will exist because you already used it in the surrounding form. 00:04:12 well, that was the toy example 00:04:21 but say I want to programmatically generate symbols 00:04:26 by parsing some text 00:04:26 -!- OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@122-57-5-42.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:05:59 adamvh: You quickly start running into the case-folding behavior of the default readtable, but yeah, INTERN will tend towards doing the job. 00:06:13 adamvh pasted "interning" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97703 00:06:36 intern isn't doing the job though 00:06:46 I get something that prints as |symbol-name| 00:07:03 and if elsewhere in the code I attempt to see if it is eq to 'symbol-name 00:07:11 it returns nil 00:07:16 clhs read-table-case 00:07:16 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for read-table-case. 00:07:19 clhs readtable-case 00:07:19 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_rdtabl.htm 00:07:32 and I need a solution that will return t 00:07:45 so essentially I need named-readtable 00:07:58 to avoid munging mine/the user's read-table? 00:08:25 and mung the user instead? 00:09:07 you don't need to modify readtable in any way 00:09:28 you just need to read a symbol in the way readtable will read it 00:09:29 well named-readtable allows me to locally change the readtable for my code without changing the end user's readtable, right? 00:09:52 so if, for instance, readtable-case is uppercase 00:09:56 clhs string-upcase 00:09:57 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_stg_up.htm 00:10:04 ah I see 00:11:01 Alternately, if you want case-sensitivity, you might "just" use symnbols like |symbol-name| in the first place, though that won't work for things from common-lisp or most other packages. 00:11:07 bohunm [~mbohun@202.124.74.87] has joined #lisp 00:11:10 (ecase (readtable-case *readtable*) (:upcase (string-upcase string)) (...)) 00:11:44 My position is that nobody messes with readtable-case anyway, so don't bother catering to it. :-P 00:12:27 damn, five minutes ago, when pasting code, i couldn't figure the keybinding for joining lines, but that time i wasn't thinking about it and get it right without even noticing 00:12:36 Thanks, guys. The code now behaves as I intended. 00:13:32 -!- z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:14:33 stassats`: That's always the way, isn't it? 00:14:45 FareWell [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 00:15:12 FareWell: Your other connection doing poorly? 00:15:28 -!- FareWell [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:15:34 nyef: it happens often, yeah, especially when someone is asking about a keybinding 00:16:30 Far too often it seems like it's not so much a keybinding as a thoughtbinding with a physical side-effect. 00:17:18 can i get a blocking read (a la tail -f) with vanilla CL or do i need to break out iolib or osicat? 00:17:30 yeah, and then i wonder why many are so unhappy about learning so much keybindings 00:18:14 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:18:40 fusss: On a disk file? Not likely. Doesn't that have to poll or something? 00:19:20 (And I mean -really- poll, given that disk files are "always ready for reading"?) 00:19:36 (defun tail-f (file) (with-open-file (stream file) (loop for line = (read-line stream nil) if line do (write-line line) else do (sleep 0.2)))) 00:20:56 stassats`: dirty :-P 00:21:07 how so? 00:21:20 nyef: yeah, there is a ?poll syscall lurking somewhere in the spec 00:21:30 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 00:21:30 stassats`: SLEEP 00:21:48 The only other thing that comes to mind is watching for an update on the containing directory. 00:21:53 that's pretty much what I have here btw, sans the sleep :-) 00:22:14 The sleep is to keep it from completely killing your CPU. 00:22:31 And, more to the point, keep your power consumption down. 00:22:45 (I like my battery. I like it more when it lasts north of six hours.) 00:22:51 i use sleep to keep me from killing my brain 00:23:16 stassats`: (sleep 0.2)? what are you, polyphasic sleeper? 00:23:40 sounds more like narcolepsy 00:24:40 What's the command to flush output from a format? 00:24:45 -!- wormwood_ [~wormwood@pool-70-19-32-138.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:24:51 balooga: finish-output ? 00:25:08 Or just end your format with a ~%. The newline will tend to flush the stream buffer. 00:25:25 nyef: force-output. 00:25:36 nyef: thanks for jogging my memory 00:25:41 That too. One is stronger than the other. 00:26:30 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:26:33 Just want to give a shoutout to the authors of cl-lex and cl-yacc (by extension Edi Weitz) 00:26:55 everyone should look at my sinewave gif http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/1977/asdfasdf.gif 00:27:01 its made with lisp 00:27:01 adamvh: they're good? haven't tried them yet. Good to know :-) 00:27:38 I mean maybe less so if you're familiar with alternatives but to me, new to both Lisp and Lex/Yacc, they're rather a revelation 00:27:57 fatblueduck: cool, but eye-wateringly flickery. 00:28:01 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483ACC2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:28:07 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:28:11 nyef: what browser are you using? 00:28:13 adamvh: do they generate textual code, or compiled lexers and parsers? 00:28:16 *stassats`* isn't a fan of Lex 00:28:21 the former is not too important 00:28:26 iceweasel, which is apparently a firefox. 00:28:28 compiled lexers and parsers 00:28:44 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 00:28:55 hmmm 00:29:14 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has quit [Quit: Esto se acabooooooo ...] 00:30:08 -!- bohunm [~mbohun@202.124.74.87] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:31:01 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:31:05 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.218.168] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 00:31:24 fatblueduck: I think what's happening is that it's showing a full frame of the circle before it puts in the bar. Or my LCD isn't responding quite right. 00:31:40 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.87] has joined #lisp 00:31:55 i get some flickering too, but i don't know how to describe it 00:32:08 nyef: each frame is a completed image... its about 30 frames 00:32:30 I wonder why this is happening it looks fine on my browsers... 00:32:48 and i'm using chromium 00:32:50 *fusss* is back from a brief narcoleptic fit enduced by a demonic sine wav gif to resume his hackzzzZZZZZ 00:32:53 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 00:32:53 maybe it's some kind of setting in gimp, which I used to make render as gif... 00:33:21 fatblueduck: generate pngs with vecto or cl-gd and combine with imagemagick 00:33:22 Wait, what? You didn't use skippy? 00:33:37 what do you REALLY want? 00:33:56 -!- srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:33:58 what's the higher-level requirement? 00:34:00 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 00:34:02 step back a little 00:34:10 bigjust` [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 00:34:22 Fare: ? 00:34:22 *stassats`* stepped a little back, flickering isn't gone 00:34:34 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:34:42 *nyef* checks. What he really wants is more heavy cream. 00:35:00 pretty smooth on my box 00:35:02 another name for "Happyness" 00:35:27 I'm glad it's working for _someone_ 00:35:28 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 00:35:36 actually, when i stepped a little more back, flickering went away 00:35:48 xxtjaxx_ [~user@p54B76962.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:35:59 ahaha, success, debugging complete. it worked once! 00:36:17 -!- bigjust [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:36:32 "It worked once, but that was years ago and it's bit-rotted since." 00:39:04 -!- xxtjaxx [~user@p54B7632A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:40:10 I have to restart... 00:40:12 -!- fatblueduck [~duck@pool-71-104-235-97.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 00:40:29 achievement (n): dropping your important, long over-due project to persue a trivial but easily tackled side project. 00:40:48 ... I'm on -AC power-, and the battery meter just read empty for 30 seconds. 00:41:57 Which doesn't fit my earlier theory, although my uptime being some 35 hours and 2 minutes suggests another plausibility... 00:43:06 nyef: your battery charge overflowed the 32bit counter? 00:43:26 fusss: Every hour on the hour? 00:43:56 Well, on the hour of uptime, plus a minute or so. 00:44:18 And if it's not on AC, I get "battery low" messages. 00:45:03 you might need a new battery, and/or a new battery. 00:45:38 I'm thinking a new desktop environment. 00:46:01 I'm also thinking that I have the bits lying around to check to see if it's the desktop environment, the kernel, or what. 00:46:08 Enlightenment was what we used to stress test batteries 00:46:14 I doubt it's the battery, I just bought the computer recently... 00:47:15 *fusss* likes it when sales guys at Best Buy suggest a "CPU upgrade" to people 00:47:36 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 00:47:41 "And what, pray tell, are you planning to upgrade an N450 -to-?" 00:48:39 to a core i7 00:48:51 Right. Because they -make- core i7 netbooks. 00:48:58 in retail "techspeak", CPU means "box" 00:49:18 Heh. "Here, have a cardboard CPU." 00:49:53 nyef: they actually seem to do 00:50:05 stassats`: *net*books? 00:50:32 yeah, for example: www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/56566-20-netbook-core-620um 00:51:41 That's... not right. 00:52:54 -!- kejsaren2 [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:52:54 -!- kejsaren1 [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:03:37 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:04:12 fatblueduck [~duck@pool-71-104-235-97.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:04:37 I looked at that gif in chrome, IE8 and IE7 01:04:42 and IE6 01:04:48 and it looks good in those 01:05:03 also, epiphany and firefox 01:05:27 so, it's not browser-dependent 01:06:58 don't know why it flickers for most of #lisp, but there's not much I can do about it... 01:07:37 stassats`: I noticed earlier you said you were not a fan of lex. What do you prefer? 01:08:21 adamvh: I think you'll find that some of us prefer hand-written lexers and recursive-descent parsers. 01:08:21 i don't know yet, perhaps a hand-written lexer 01:08:58 -!- xxtjaxx_ [~user@p54B76962.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:09:03 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 01:17:16 *drewc* is into parser combinators 01:18:50 after fighting with mutexes and condition variables and everything, I'm back to the conclusion that the only way to get them right is to avoid composing them. 01:19:09 -> a DSL (: 01:21:19 -!- _macro [~macro@shiva.mochimedia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:22:44 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:23:48 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 01:29:06 grrrr, anyway to preserve a file's (c|a|m)time across machines? 01:29:07 debiandebian [~chatzilla@ntszok008047.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:29:20 rsync. 01:29:42 pkhuong: between win32 and linux, using http upload 01:29:54 (though I can hunker down and CFFI an ssh library) 01:29:57 -!- Guthur [~Michael@host213-122-221-177.range213-122.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Computer says no] 01:30:58 any cl library for rsync? 01:31:22 fusss: run-program "rsync"? 01:33:23 nyef: the file polling query from earlier (tail -f) was for win32 rsync 01:34:17 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 01:35:03 dnolen [~dnolen@pool-70-19-69-201.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:36:14 -!- debiandebian [~chatzilla@ntszok008047.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:37:49 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:40:27 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:41:55 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 01:42:42 woodworks [woodworks@64.st.louis-141-143rs.mo.dial-access.att.net] has joined #lisp 01:42:52 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:43:17 csamuelson [~user@host-68-169-155-1.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #lisp 01:46:25 -!- Edward [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-51-65.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 01:48:23 echo-area [~zhujun@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 01:53:43 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 01:57:58 -!- bigjust` [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:59:43 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 01:59:44 palter_ [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:21b:63ff:fe96:e1ff] has joined #lisp 01:59:44 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:59:45 -!- palter_ is now known as palter 02:00:24 bigjust` [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:01:01 -!- isomer`` [~isomer@CPE00226b8ab7f9-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:02:30 isomer [~isomer@CPE00226b8ab7f9-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 02:05:03 -!- bigjust` [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:05:59 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-52.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 02:06:06 bigjust` [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:07:44 kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-52.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 02:13:26 hello. How to include text in other encoding than UTF-8 in lisp source code in sbcl? Thanks 02:13:51 I guess it requires the ability to inform the reader somehow 02:14:13 LANG=en_US.UTF-8 sbcl 02:14:27 oh, in other than 02:14:31 i misread 02:14:57 Alternately, there are a few other encoding controls. They might even be documented! 02:16:17 (compile-file "/home/stas/foo.lisp" :external-format :koi8-r) 02:16:44 "Something seems fishy about that external-format." 02:16:49 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:17:24 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 02:20:20 RENAME-FILE should take an :overwrite/:supercede argument :-/ 02:21:00 fad:copy-file does though 02:21:18 Just use an os-api interface like iolib already. 02:21:32 nevar!!!!!1 02:21:50 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:22:31 -!- woodworks [woodworks@64.st.louis-141-143rs.mo.dial-access.att.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:22:49 wait till you find that rename-file can't rename "foo.bar" into "foo", unless you use :unspecific for a type, but that doesn't work on clisp, for example 02:24:05 Wait, -what-? That shouldn't be :unspecific when it hits the filesystem, it should be NIL. 02:24:20 stassats`: thanks. I've tried LOAD too, and it supports the same keyword argument. But is it possible to use :external-format with asdf? 02:24:38 clhs rename-file 02:24:38 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_rn_fil.htm 02:24:45 echo-area: Yes, though you might have to get inventive. 02:25:00 nyef: it merges the new name with the old name 02:25:24 Ah. Hrm. 02:25:40 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:26:52 csamuels` [~user@host-68-169-155-1.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #lisp 02:27:13 -!- csamuelson [~user@host-68-169-155-1.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:27:14 clisp is especially annoying when it comes to pathnames 02:28:07 every other implementation lets you do (merge-pathnames (make-pathname :name "bar" :type :unspecific) #p"foo.bar") 02:28:50 nyef: I see, in asdf's source code how LOAD and COMPILE-FILE are called. By inventive, do you mean I need to add mechanisms for asdf to call with those arguments? 02:28:58 but who cares about clisp, anyway 02:29:33 you can set sb-impl::*default-external-format* 02:33:10 -!- anair_84 [~anair_84@wsip-72-215-168-118.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:33:33 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 02:34:09 does common lisp provide anything which allows you to say that the function connected to the symbol foo must behave the same as the function connected to the symbol bar? 02:34:34 How do you mean "must behave the same"? 02:34:34 documentation strings? 02:34:45 What sort of "say"? 02:34:50 you can say whatever you want in those 02:35:45 nyef: make them both connect to the same function 02:36:22 stassats`: well that really helps, thank you! 02:36:26 -!- poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:36:27 stassats`: nice one :) not what I was looking for though 02:36:28 fdefinition is an accessor. 02:36:43 aha, great 02:36:56 then I'll grant myself the right to support something similar \o/ 02:37:32 but fdefinition doesn't handle rdefinition 02:37:43 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 02:37:44 True. 02:38:40 also, if I were to modify asdf code, I would like to add two variables: asdf:*load-function* and asdf:*compile-file-function*, which default to #'load and #'compile-file, to help tweak the loading/compiling behavior in asdf. Is this a good way to do in CL? 02:39:47 echo-area: Just define your own component class derived from the default and override whichever methods you need. 02:40:04 CLX does something similar to muffle some stuff on SBCL. 02:40:13 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:40:14 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:41:18 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:41:35 though asdf:*default-external-format* might be good 02:42:20 Just wait for ASDF 2: The sequel! It might have that. 02:42:39 (Or not, I haven't been paying that much attention.) 02:44:09 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:44:14 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:45:15 nyef: but the new method will have only one function call different from the default, and this means I'll have to either copy the default function or define different behavior from the default function, both of which seem not elegant to me. 02:45:23 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 02:45:57 Use an :around method and bind the default external format? 02:45:58 stassats`: that sounds better to me than the twovariables way 02:49:17 nyef: ah I see. I really need a bunch of time to be familiar with CLOS :) 02:51:33 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 02:53:27 of the two methods, adding asdf:*default-external-format* (or even asdf:*external-format*) is better than deriving new classes, if one can modify the asdf code, IMHO 02:54:22 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-252-170-201.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 02:55:11 bojovs [~bojovs@202.209.91.169] has joined #lisp 02:57:14 -!- bojovs [~bojovs@202.209.91.169] has quit [Client Quit] 02:57:51 amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 02:58:19 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.42] has joined #lisp 02:59:54 bojovs [~bojovs@202.209.91.169] has joined #lisp 03:00:30 echo-area: SBCL has a special variable for the default external format somewhere, you can bind that. 03:00:37 -!- bojovs [~bojovs@202.209.91.169] has quit [Client Quit] 03:01:09 p_l: are you still planning to modify sbcl's web page? 03:01:10 nyef: I think you mean sb-impl::*default-external-format* :) 03:01:26 That's probably the one, yes. 03:02:07 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:03:24 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-4-14.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 03:04:01 oh well, asdf doesn't load :depends-on in the right order 03:04:43 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 03:04:44 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-68-247.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:04:52 Um... I thought it was an unordered set anyway? 03:05:10 incf nyef 03:05:17 but i wanted an ordered one! 03:05:40 wasn't there an asdf option to make it load everything in the order in which you typed it? 03:05:49 perhaps i shouldn't use so many systems for one project and store their packages in one packages.lisp 03:06:04 madnificent: Only within a single component. 03:06:11 madnificent: that's :serial t, but it's for components 03:06:27 that's a bit sad then 03:06:34 Of course, you could create a bit of a proxy component... 03:07:40 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-52.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 03:08:15 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 03:09:22 kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-52.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 03:09:35 i'd have to split packages.lisp later, which i'm unwilling to do 03:11:01 Heh. I've stopped -writing- package.lisp files. 03:11:19 Makes it a lot easier to sort out dependencies between files. 03:12:00 maybe, but it's nice to keep them in one place 03:15:05 jao [~jao@83.43.35.213] has joined #lisp 03:17:25 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:17:58 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 03:18:46 -!- PurplePanda [~pyro@CPE-124-190-112-220.nxwn1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has left #lisp 03:21:31 now i have my own cl datastore. it all started as print/read 03:21:55 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:26:05 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 03:26:07 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 03:26:52 -!- csamuels` [~user@host-68-169-155-1.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:33:06 how do i test if a symbol is bound or not when BOUNDP returns an error on unbound symbols? 03:33:27 it does? 03:33:33 fusss: It doesn't, you "just" need to quote them. 03:33:58 (boundp '#:some-unbound-symbol) => NIL. 03:34:04 -!- isomer [~isomer@CPE00226b8ab7f9-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:35:40 wolgo [~noige@69.59.130.52] has joined #lisp 03:36:14 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:37:05 nyef: thanks :-) 03:40:59 hi 03:41:09 I am going to learn lisp 03:41:21 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:41:29 wolgo: congratulations 03:41:47 after working with haskell, ocaml and sml I think that lisp and sml are the ones that I will be able to work with most effectivly 03:42:01 *wolgo* is a fp noob and a programming noob (kind of) 03:42:26 so I think I am going to make a game with lisp 03:42:56 stassats`: thanks :) 03:43:10 did you find a book to read for learning lisp already? i recommend Practical Common Lisp 03:43:23 I have PAIP and PCL 03:43:39 so you're good 03:43:49 here's to 120 days of lisp programming. Every program I write for the next four months will be in Lisp 03:43:55 stassats`: yep :) 03:44:31 I have SICP but I do not have a math background so I spend more time teaching myself pre-calc than I do programming heee! 03:44:51 i didn't find SICP too mathy 03:44:54 stassats`: is there a good resource (blog) to read about lisp? 03:45:08 there's http://planet.lisp.org 03:45:25 great, that is all I need! thanks a lot 03:45:33 I am going to write hangman tonight. 03:45:37 good first program 03:45:47 though there's usually posted more advanced stuff 03:46:09 oh okay 03:46:19 oh wow lisp supports growl 03:46:20 nice 03:46:27 http://www.cliki.net/ also 03:46:48 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 03:47:17 ahh, I am using windows. I can SSH into another box to program, is there a flavor for windows that is recommended? 03:47:58 Flavor of SSH? PuTTY. 03:48:07 one that runs PuTTY 03:48:11 oh, got that already 03:48:23 unless you're in Britain, in which case I'm sure ssh is illegal >.> 03:48:25 No, sorry for my terrible grammar. 03:48:34 I meant lisp implementation. 03:48:55 I have terrible english skills. I am embarrased at times to say that it is my lingua franca. 03:49:12 The current recommendation leans towards CCL, I believe. 03:49:38 is that CLISP ? 03:49:51 or clozure? 03:49:54 brb google 03:49:57 clozure. 03:50:11 CLISP is just... ick. 03:50:18 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 03:50:25 haha okay 03:50:27 wolgo: that's okay, common lisp is the lingua franca here 03:50:34 sure 03:50:39 I will be speaking it soon enough. 03:51:15 ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 03:51:19 hello 03:51:24 hi ost 03:54:19 wolgo: I use cygwin on windows and cygwin comes with a clisp package 03:55:01 wolgo: I just set that up a few weeks ago and I think it worked out well 03:56:28 nyef: what's wrong with clisp? 03:57:12 Every time I've tried to use clisp for anything serious, it's been an obnoxious piece of junk. 03:57:21 okay 03:57:33 I just grabbed clozure 03:57:43 I am going to use notepad++ 03:57:47 Hmm, I've found clisp to be reasonable. I guess it depends on how non-portable your code is. 03:57:53 for editing files 03:57:55 wolgo: My condolences. Use emacs instead. 03:58:00 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:58:01 nyef: i've noticed that sbcl notified me of problems in my program and clisp did not do that 03:58:09 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:58:10 emacs claw 03:58:11 okay 03:58:21 emacs and Slime 03:58:24 And once you have emacs, add slime. 03:58:43 also clisp didn't come with asdf... 03:58:53 xemacs 03:58:54 Zhivago: Or how crash-happy clisp+slime+emacs wants to be. Or how useless the arglist hinting wants to be. Or... 03:58:56 or just emacs 03:59:18 Well, not using slime probably helps then :) 03:59:31 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:00:29 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 04:00:36 okay so emacs+slime+CCL 04:00:47 that is my battle station 04:01:39 bt:destroy-thread does nothing in ccl/linux :-S 04:02:19 wolgo: what OS? 04:02:32 fusss: vista, this is a *nix box 04:02:52 my main interest is being able to drop stuff into my "sync folder" and access it anywhere 04:04:10 wolgo: I run emacs + slime + ccl on XP and it works like magic 04:04:21 try to get the latest binary build (svn up) 04:04:46 the one that's 3 days old fixes a problem that was crashing ccl randomly 04:05:22 it runs every lisp library i ever needed, _except_ hunchentoot (which should debug why) 04:06:26 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has joined #lisp 04:06:37 Windows is an excellent lisping platform; don't let the yobos chase you out of it 04:07:04 if you are running linux in a virtual machine? 04:08:10 i see the hypocricy in my saying, since i am on IRC via irssi over putty, and hacking in freebsd over another putty .. but 04:08:28 it's really satisfying to whip together something that ends up being used by Real People(TM) 04:09:04 i prefer Complex People® 04:10:07 Real People don't use my products and it's dissatisfying. 04:10:40 fatblueduck: don't make products, make scripts then 04:10:56 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:11:23 fusss: php scripts? 04:11:39 -!- moesenle [~lorenz@157.22.9.14] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:11:39 fusss: python scripts? 04:12:07 "if you double click on this icon named ar.bat, a black screen will come up, some text will scroll by, then it will close itself. after that, open ArReport.pdf and you should find your billing reports along with graphics and up to date data from your database" 04:12:37 cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 04:12:42 I see... 04:12:56 fatblueduck: cobol 04:12:59 ofDao_ [~dcb53d1f@gateway/web/freenode/x-uiwiucrlxxkegych] has joined #lisp 04:13:40 -!- ofDao_ [~dcb53d1f@gateway/web/freenode/x-uiwiucrlxxkegych] has quit [Client Quit] 04:14:08 brb lunch. and fatblueduck, obviously cl. this is the club house after all and i am a believer 04:14:15 cobol is a scripting language? 04:14:27 fatblueduck: Clozure Common Lisp 04:14:46 Clozure CoboL 04:14:46 hold on let whip up this cobol script 04:15:44 (LOOP for record in (list-ar) collecting (amount record)) 04:16:11 there was a troll who called cl "Cobol Lisp" because of loop :-P 04:17:02 fusss: okay cool 04:20:21 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:20:38 hmmm, bordeaux-threads doesn't have thread-id or similar to get the PID 04:20:41 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.199] has joined #lisp 04:21:13 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 04:21:23 ubii [~ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has joined #lisp 04:21:58 minion: memo for sellout: feasible-p THREAD-ID or similar way to get the "PID" of a thread? analogous to thread-name. 04:21:58 Remembered. I'll tell sellout when he/she/it next speaks. 04:25:48 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 04:27:21 -!- xristos [~x@2001:470:8859:cafe:20c:29ff:fec5:e30a] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:28:09 bigjust`` [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 04:28:20 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:28:27 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 04:30:35 -!- tychoish [~tychoish@97.107.134.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:31:51 tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 04:32:31 -!- bigjust` [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:38:02 Good morning! 04:40:07 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 04:41:24 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-plxtuidnserzpvps] has joined #lisp 04:44:41 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@c-69-136-131-100.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: adamvh] 04:45:14 balooga [~00u4440@adsl-76-194-233-139.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:48:51 xristos [~x@2001:470:8859:cafe:20c:29ff:fec5:e30a] has joined #lisp 04:48:59 -!- xristos is now known as Guest34418 04:51:22 konr1 [~konrad@201.82.134.220] has joined #lisp 04:53:26 -!- konr [~konrad@201.82.134.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:55:30 <_3b> beach: thought of something else that might be nice to have in SICL: some indication of which standard functions have side effects, or depend on state other than arguments 04:56:09 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:57:44 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:58:23 minion: SICL 04:58:23 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``SICL''. 04:58:52 _3b: sicl? 04:59:11 minion: memo for echo-area: this is a test 04:59:11 Remembered. I'll tell echo-area when he/she/it next speaks. 04:59:11 echo-area, memo from echo-area: this is a test 04:59:24 <_3b> fusss: beach's project to write a lisp from the top down 04:59:49 _3b: Yeah, that's a good idea! Such information will be required for the compiler anyway. 05:01:36 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:01:47 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 05:02:04 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 05:05:40 spawning child process invalid argument 05:05:45 I have slime installed 05:06:23 and my inferior lisp is: C:\\Users\\zomg\\Desktop\\LISP\\ccl\\scripts\\ccl64 05:07:32 *beach* is always surprised that there are still people using Windows. 05:07:54 *_3b* is just as surprised about people using linux, and probably would be about osx if i used that :p 05:08:15 <_3b> (not less surprised about windows though, it is annoying too) 05:08:26 i am surprised people are using computers 05:09:40 lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 05:12:02 I like windows. 05:12:06 I like linux too. 05:12:19 I like debian linux the most. 05:12:23 Sorry to hear that! 05:12:26 but I like to play left for dead 05:12:32 wheee 05:15:53 <_3b> beach: also, i notice in scrollback you describe sicl LOOP as having complete syntax analysis... does that part actually compile now? 05:16:17 *_3b* tried to use it once, and didn't get very far... gave up and used sacla loop instead 05:17:06 _3b: I haven't looked at it for a while, but I think that's true. 05:18:14 notsonerdysunny [~chatzilla@121.243.182.185] has joined #lisp 05:20:20 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:20:34 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 05:21:05 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:22:24 <_3b> beach: true that it compiles, you mean? 05:22:43 woot got it working. 05:22:51 gonna make a tutorial for that 05:23:01 one thing I hate about windows 05:23:09 configuring anything sucks and it ridiculously complex 05:23:16 it/us 05:23:20 IS 05:25:09 <_3b> yeah, too bad they have been trying to make linux more like windows in that regard lately :/ 05:25:42 _3b: Yes 05:25:54 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@200.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:25:56 uhh 05:25:57 why 05:26:08 <_3b> it is 'easy to use' that way :p 05:26:16 Uhh... no. 05:26:20 no imo 05:26:37 editing reg keys to make stuff work? 05:26:59 navigating through several dialog boxes and prompts to set my path variable? 05:27:02 <_3b> 'here, run this magic applet and your network will work'... until the applet disappears, or doesn't notice the network dropped, or whatever... then good luck figuring out how it really works 05:27:04 not easy for me 05:27:13 yeah 05:27:28 <_3b> 'oh, you wanted sound too'? 05:27:38 windows is good for two things: games 05:27:45 I cant remember what the other thing is 05:28:03 downloading linux 05:28:04 I guess Clozure CL :) 05:28:06 lol 05:28:15 stassats` funny 05:28:21 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 05:28:21 *_3b* doesn't notice much difference between working in windows and linux, aside from the huge window borders and poor sbcl support :p 05:28:45 <_3b> ah yeah, and the insane mouse speed i have in linux 05:28:56 what is the best way to return a random portion of an array 05:29:05 or the first n items 05:29:10 <_3b> PuffTheMagic: subseq + random? 05:29:15 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has joined #lisp 05:29:31 subseq is whati am looking for i beleive 05:29:44 subseq works only on sequences 05:30:33 I am not sure how windows handles multiple disks but emacs + clozure cl + slimes does not work if you have any of the components on different disks from one another. 05:30:37 lets say my array is 100 elem, i need to take the first 10, do something with them, then pop the frst elem, and repeat 05:31:49 -!- fusss [~kumi@li63-187.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:32:01 use bounding indexes 05:33:00 you don't need to copy an array to work with it 05:33:01 idk the syntax for that 05:33:23 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#lisp 05:35:34 ironChicken [~richard@mx.slab.org] has joined #lisp 05:35:34 pok [pok@tarrant.klingenberg.no] has joined #lisp 05:35:34 krappie [~brain@mx.skitzo.org] has joined #lisp 05:35:43 -!- schme [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:36:03 <_3b> beach: i think that paste is as far as i got with it, dunno if you have a better version lost in some other repo somewhere :) 05:36:27 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-4-14.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:36:27 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:21b:63ff:fe96:e1ff] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:36:27 -!- echo-area [~zhujun@114.251.86.0] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:36:27 -!- Phoodus [foo@174-26-247-120.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:36:27 -!- daniel___ [~daniel@p5082E478.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:36:27 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.64.199.184] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:36:27 -!- andreer [andreer@flode.pvv.ntnu.no] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:36:27 -!- dym 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*.split] 05:36:28 -!- scode [~scode@hyperion.scode.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:36:28 -!- KatrinaTheLamia [~root13@69.164.215.87] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:36:28 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:36:28 -!- notsonerdysunny [~chatzilla@121.243.182.185] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:36:28 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.199] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:36:28 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:36:28 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:36:28 -!- Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:36:28 -!- smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:36:28 -!- plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-204-22.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:36:29 -!- hypno [~hypno@impulse2.gothiaso.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:36:29 -!- pookleblinky [~pooklebli@cpe-67-252-140-159.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:36:29 -!- xinming [~hyy@218.73.132.224] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:36:29 -!- Wombatzus [~user@216-31-242-4.static-ip.telepacific.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:36:29 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:36:29 -!- Pepe_ [~ppjet@bouah.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:36:29 -!- m4thrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:36:29 -!- ve [~a@smith.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:36:29 -!- joga [joga@unaffiliated/joga] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:36:29 -!- jrockway [~jrockway@stonepath.jrock.us] has quit [*.net *.split] 05:36:33 <_3b> beach: not sure if all those changes are correct, since i don't think i got far enough to actually try it 05:36:47 slyrus_ [~slyrus@adsl-75-36-214-244.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:37:08 notsonerdysunny [~chatzilla@121.243.182.185] has joined #lisp 05:37:08 bigjust`` [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 05:37:08 ubii 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[sytse@speedy.student.ipv6.utwente.nl] has joined #lisp 05:37:08 mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has joined #lisp 05:37:08 Adrinael [~adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has joined #lisp 05:37:08 Trystam [~Tristam@cpe-67-242-195-25.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:37:14 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:37:43 lnostdal [~lnostdal@200.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 05:38:17 I'll have a look. Thanks! 05:39:23 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 05:41:54 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 05:44:18 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 05:45:00 -!- tompa [~tompa@h59ec27fb.sehjjak.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 05:49:32 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-52.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 05:50:04 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 05:52:11 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 05:53:16 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 05:53:26 ASau` [~user@77.246.231.35] has joined #lisp 05:54:00 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 05:54:05 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:54:44 Where can I find documentation on Puri? It just refers me to Franz's net.uri docs at http://opensource.franz.com/uri/uri-dist/uri.htm, which no longer exists ... 05:54:54 (e.g., http://puri.b9.com/documentation.html) 05:54:58 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 05:55:38 n/m - been going too long without sleep 05:55:49 for reference, it is at (http://franz.com/support/documentation/current/doc/uri.htm 05:59:01 notsonerdysunny pasted "a macro " at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97710 05:59:19 http://paste.lisp.org/+23E6 05:59:45 attila_lendvai [~ati@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 05:59:48 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.74.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:00:15 I am unable to fix the compilation error .. I am kind of new to lisp macros .. can anybody see why this is not compiling? 06:00:52 notsonerdysunny annotated #97710 "error " at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97710#1 06:01:18 i have anotated it with the error message I get .. can anybody help? 06:02:23 did you macroexpand your macro? 06:02:58 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:03:03 -!- Dodek [dodek@wikipedia/Dodek] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:03:59 stassats`: I just figured the problem .. i replaced let with let* and it worked .. thanks .. :) 06:04:17 still, did you macroexpand it? 06:04:25 no 06:04:32 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:04:34 you should 06:05:48 and you will see it's not doing what you're thinking it's doing 06:05:57 k I will do that from here on .. 06:06:42 if you're using slime, you can use C-c C-m for macroexpansion 06:07:36 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:08:52 whats the command for macroexpand-1? 06:09:09 what is the difference between '(:a 4) and (list :a 4)? 06:09:11 stassats`: yes I do use slime 06:09:25 fisxoj [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban.inka-online.net] has joined #lisp 06:09:33 wolgo: there is no difference .. 06:09:33 wolgo: first is a literal object, and thus it cannot be mutated 06:10:27 notsonerdysunny: well, then place your cursor at the beginning of (defgeneric-conditional m condition (a b c)) and press C-c C-m 06:11:52 stassats`: it is expanding to the last expression only .. what happened to the rest? 06:12:03 I mean the first two of the threee 06:12:08 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:12:46 see, you return only the last form 06:13:49 wrap all forms inside a progn, `(progn (defvar ...) (...)) 06:14:03 oh .. 06:14:24 can I also do (values `form1 `form2 `form3) 06:15:19 it would have different consequences 06:15:59 progn preserves top-levelness, and defun, defvar behave differently when they're at the top-level at the compile-time 06:17:32 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.73.134] has joined #lisp 06:17:59 and in the way you quoted that values form, it would be even more different: it will use only the first form 06:21:07 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:21:18 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.66.153] has joined #lisp 06:22:43 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 06:22:56 Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.233] has joined #lisp 06:24:00 thanks stassats` 06:24:13 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 06:25:20 mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-espbulqumdkppsjn] has joined #lisp 06:30:16 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:31:19 zomgbie 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[~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:03:41 YOME [~YOME@ariadne.enseirb.fr] has joined #lisp 08:04:04 Hello 08:04:41 Joreji [~thomas@84-130.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 08:05:07 can someone help me please ? 08:08:29 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:09:04 YOME: not until you ask your question. 08:09:34 i'm looking for a solution to represent the maximum value of an Integer like the MAX_INT constant in C 08:09:49 saikat_ [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:09:53 there are a few of those in lisp... most-positive-fixnum is one 08:09:58 clhs most-positive-fixnum 08:09:58 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_most_p.htm 08:10:12 -!- saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 08:10:13 -!- saikat_ is now known as saikat 08:10:58 ok i think it's what i'm looking for 08:11:03 thanks a lot 08:11:39 YOME, although (1+ most-positive-fixnum) works properly... just starts becoming slower 08:12:43 ok it's good to know thanks ! 08:12:46 bye 08:12:49 -!- YOME [~YOME@ariadne.enseirb.fr] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 22.3.1] 08:12:58 *luis* discovers SLIME's C-u C-c C-t, nice. 08:13:39 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:13:49 luis: what does it do with a prefix arg? 08:14:22 -!- isomer [~isomer@CPE00226b8ab7f9-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 08:15:28 antifuchs: inspects the context and enables tracing labels/flets 08:15:45 ooooooh 08:15:49 that is nice. 08:15:52 ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 08:16:36 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.73.134] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:16:57 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-40-75.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:19:12 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 08:19:27 orphee [~orphee@195.14.246.100] has joined #lisp 08:20:16 it allows for tracing methods as well, apparently 08:23:33 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 08:27:43 levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 08:29:14 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:29:31 wheee. I missed that feature. 08:31:04 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-wbbkjwczepauluus] has left #lisp 08:32:49 according to Google, SLIME has had this feature at least since 2005 08:32:59 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:37:12 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75759f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:37:31 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-photyhsbcyxtxbxa] has joined #lisp 08:37:44 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:38:30 *stassats`* is baffled by the mop 08:38:55 do i have to have metaclasses in a different file? 08:38:56 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:39:00 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 08:39:25 jdz_ [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 08:40:15 -!- jdz [~jdz@85.254.197.156] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:40:15 -!- jdz_ is now known as jdz 08:41:27 in sbcl and ccl it works with the same file, but not in clisp, acl, lw 08:42:19 drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-30.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:42:21 mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has joined #lisp 08:43:37 stassats`: you need to wrap class definitions in eval-when 08:43:41 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:43:58 -!- ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:44:15 antifuchs: which will have the same effect 08:45:43 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has joined #lisp 08:46:26 stipet [~user@ua.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 08:47:55 -!- balooga [~00u4440@adsl-76-194-233-139.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:47:57 and now my loop is unportable, screw portability 08:49:31 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:50:13 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:50:51 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:50:54 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:52:44 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 08:55:40 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:56:24 stassats`: maybe you could paste an example? 08:56:43 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 08:58:00 antifuchs: i know what the problem is and already solved it, but that doesn't stop it from being annoying 08:59:00 that was notorious "code followed by iteration" 09:00:23 I have no idea what you're talking about. 09:00:36 (loop for i to 10 until (evenp i) for x to 10 do (print x)) 09:00:57 clisp and ecl don't like this 09:01:38 Any windows expert know whether it's possible to know in advance whether (delete-file "foo") will work? I.e. how to check if a file is being used by another process? 09:03:00 "The iteration control clauses for, as, and repeat must precede any other loop clauses, except initially, with, and named" 09:03:07 clhs 6.1.2.1 09:03:07 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/06_aba.htm 09:03:31 (but you knew that, I suppose (:) 09:06:54 stassats`: what does swapping the until and for clauses do? 09:07:42 splittist: until is doing a termination test, so FOR will do an illegal operation 09:08:29 -!- fihi09``` [~user@pool-96-224-46-250.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:08:41 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:08:46 not in this example, but in my use case 09:09:28 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 09:11:28 stassats`: yeah, I get it. 09:11:50 so it was something like (loop for byte = (read-byte stream) until (= byte 255) for foo = (aref array byte) ...) which is illegal and have to be (loop with foo for byte = (read-byte stream) until (= byte 255) do (setf foo (aref array byte)) ...) 09:12:48 and the latter looks more ugly 09:14:06 *_3b* usually does for foo = (unless (= byte 255) (aref ... )) until (= byte 255) in that case... not much less ugly though 09:14:40 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:15:28 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has quit [Quit: work work work] 09:15:58 -!- plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-204-22.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:18:58 -!- randa [~randa@94.99.50.84.sta.estpak.ee] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:19:42 randa [~randa@94.99.50.84.sta.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 09:20:39 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:21:44 just move the second for clause into a LET binding into the body 09:22:02 works as long as you don't need to use LOOP conditionals 09:22:20 <_3b> or collect,sum,etc 09:22:37 you can just use the let around your form 09:22:44 collect (let ((foo ...) (frob foo)) 09:26:25 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@e195-210.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:27:06 (or use iterate (-:) 09:32:49 -!- daniel___ is now known as daniel 09:34:08 sunwukong [~vukung@business-80-99-161-225.business.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 09:34:29 ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 09:36:12 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 09:36:49 isomer [~isomer@CPE00226b8ab7f9-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 09:37:53 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 09:38:50 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:40:40 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 09:41:29 SandGorgon_ [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has joined #lisp 09:41:37 -!- SandGorgon_ [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:41:58 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-photyhsbcyxtxbxa] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:42:22 SandGorgon_ [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has joined #lisp 09:43:17 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:46:34 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:47:03 attila_lendvai [~ati@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 09:48:07 -!- ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:48:21 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:49:57 -!- ubii [~ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:50:20 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 09:50:58 I think I asked in the past, but I'm right now again in front of code which puts every CLOS slot access into a critical section, so I feel a bit awry removing it and want to receive some assurance: Accessing a CLOS slot in SBCL is, deep down, just changing a single word? 09:51:30 so concurrent reads & writes won't step onto each other feet? 09:52:34 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-fsbrprnerhgixock] has joined #lisp 09:52:35 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:54:06 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:54:39 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-fsbrprnerhgixock] has left #lisp 09:56:30 bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has joined #lisp 09:56:35 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:57:05 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:58:24 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-avlqpapetfybsibl] has joined #lisp 10:03:15 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:03:57 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.199] has joined #lisp 10:04:01 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:04:52 -!- isomer [~isomer@CPE00226b8ab7f9-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:08:25 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:10:15 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:10:51 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:11:13 is there a way to generate keywords like we generate symbol-names using gensym? 10:11:59 <_3b> keywords are symbols 10:12:35 notsonerdysunny: (gentemp "YOUR-PREFIX" :keyword) will generate a fresh keyword 10:12:37 <_3b> gensym makes symbols, not symbol names (though since symbols need names, making them is a side effect) 10:13:15 I don't know how the automatic keyword boundness jibes with gentemp's specified behavior, though (: 10:13:28 *tcr* discovers C- 10:15:32 ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 10:16:42 thanks antifuchs .. 10:17:07 antifuchs: gentemp is what I was looking for 10:17:17 cool (: 10:17:43 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-30-82-253-166-30.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:19:17 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 10:20:28 -!- ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:20:32 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 10:24:40 -!- stipet [~user@ua.blixtvik.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:26:08 ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 10:27:02 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:28:45 TeMPOraL [~temporal@178.182.180.146.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has joined #lisp 10:29:02 notsonerdysunny pasted "guarded generic function macro" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97715 10:29:44 notsonerdysunny annotated #97715 "compilation error" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97715#1 10:30:39 why am I getting this error? 10:30:41 The value (LAMBDA (A B C) (< A B C)) 10:30:42 is not of type 10:30:44 (OR FUNCTION SYMBOL). 10:31:05 when it is clearly a function 10:31:49 notsonerdysunny: it may be a list 10:32:19 notsonerdysunny: the object is a list reading (lambda (a b c) (< a b c)), not a function with the code that this list represents 10:32:24 kwinz3 [~kwinz@e195-210.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 10:32:46 *Xach* wonders if it's (apply '(lambda (a b c) (< a b c)) ...) 10:32:52 or funcall 10:32:59 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:33:01 its apply 10:33:02 d'oh, i could just read the paste. 10:33:03 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 10:33:13 notsonerdysunny: remove the ' or add a # 10:33:59 udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-rbayeesfnrgjxjdu] has joined #lisp 10:34:21 Xach it is part of a macro expansion .. 10:34:26 *Xach* gives up, as the paste needs more than simple fixes 10:38:00 mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has joined #lisp 10:39:48 ZabaQ [~john.conn@playboxgames.com] has joined #lisp 10:40:22 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-57-82-249-37-165.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 10:41:51 Xach can you give me any pointers? 10:42:58 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:43:41 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:44:29 -!- Dodek [dodek@wikipedia/Dodek] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:44:45 vtl [~user@nat/redhat/x-irwqtwvpbwgrbmfi] has joined #lisp 10:47:58 -!- Phoodus [foo@174-26-247-120.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:50:37 myu2_ [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 10:50:52 -!- myu2_ [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:51:04 Yuuhi [benni@p5483A9DD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:51:15 myu2_ [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 10:51:22 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:51:53 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 10:52:44 fisxoj [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban1.inka-online.net] has joined #lisp 10:53:22 holy shit I have a use case for MAPL :-) 10:53:43 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 10:54:36 hello! i wonder, why is that sometimes asdf:load-op fails on a simple warning ? 10:54:55 that's its policy on SBCL 10:55:27 warning in SBCL most often mean that the code will signal an error at run-time 10:55:42 (that policy is sometimes annoying, yes) 10:56:16 -!- myu2_ [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:56:24 tcr: ok and the style-warnings are benign, i see, thanks ! 10:59:51 *_3b`* thought that was per clhs, not just sbcl? 11:00:09 <_3b`> or does asdf ignore warnings on other platforms? 11:01:06 _3b`: asdf in clhs ? 11:02:51 so my question should actually be : why is this warning not a style warning ? "cannot use optimized accessor in safe code" 11:02:53 <_3b`> billitch: that compile-file considers warnings to mean compilation failed i mean 11:03:15 cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 11:03:16 _3b`: oh ok 11:03:58 can't sbcl use a non-optimized accessor ? 11:04:00 thuge [~thats@unaffiliated/thuge] has joined #lisp 11:04:04 rune [~rune@179.80-202-108.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 11:04:09 when producing safe code, that is 11:04:33 -!- rune is now known as runenes 11:04:34 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:05:26 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 11:05:34 i don't really have to use safe code for now, but i'm wondering 11:06:55 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-197-195.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: night] 11:06:58 -!- ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:07:29 -!- thuge [~thats@unaffiliated/thuge] has left #lisp 11:08:31 Anyone know how to use the asn.1 package? 11:09:48 -!- jao [~jao@83.43.35.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:13:16 billitch: example? 11:14:05 frodef: there's an asn.1 package available? 11:14:22 -!- Joreji [~thomas@84-130.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:14:40 p_l: apparently: http://www.cliki.net/ASN.1 11:14:55 hmmm 11:14:57 documentation is a bit sparse, though. 11:15:08 (and I don't know the first thing about ans.1..) 11:16:07 Joreji [~thomas@91-190.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:16:25 asn.1 I heard can be annoying, given no padding in fields.. 11:17:23 so, for example, a 134-bit message was possible in it.. 11:18:02 -!- fnordus [~dnall@70.70.0.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:19:14 fortunately we have computers to to the bit-fiddling for us.. :) 11:22:07 ..or perhaps froydnj can tell me if ironclad can help me parse a CMS signature? 11:22:09 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #lisp 11:22:42 Anyone familiar with "canonical s-expressions"? 11:23:53 canonical? 11:24:02 maybe it means without any reader macros etc.? 11:24:06 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:24:10 eli: what's the context? 11:24:39 frodef: binghe sounds like the guy to ask how to use asn.1 11:24:55 antifuchs: is he here? 11:25:00 fnordus [~dnall@70.70.0.215] has joined #lisp 11:25:03 don't think so, but an email is on cliki 11:25:04 I'm talking about these things: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canonical_S-expressions 11:25:04 http://www.cliki.net/Binghe 11:25:31 antifuchs: ok, thanks 11:25:52 There's a proposal for a "S-expression structured output" from git, which got my antennas up, but it looks like that ... thing. 11:26:34 (And it's something that I never ran into until now.) 11:26:46 Ah, I've seen this 11:26:52 very nice stuff, actually 11:26:54 eli: well, prefixed strings in plain text. that seems nice. 11:27:15 antifuchs: No, they're not strings, it's a binary format. 11:27:26 Well, not strings in any lisp reader sense. 11:27:40 it's basically network-oriented S-expressions, the prefixes are there to inform the program of the size of the atom. 11:27:50 No, not even that. 11:28:22 The list ("foo" "x\"y" ")") would be printed as: (3:foo3:x"y1:() 11:28:27 eli: http://people.csail.mit.edu/rivest/sexp.html <--- this is the original. 11:28:57 p_l: Yes, I saw that -- what's not clear to me is whether this has been used in any popular circles. 11:29:01 Or lisp ones. 11:29:11 eli: PKI sounds like popular enough :) 11:29:29 (actually, it probably means bigger usage than CL&Scheme combined) 11:30:04 (dunno about actual implementation, but I did heard something regarding that) 11:31:27 There is a paragraph at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-expression which says that they were not used outside of SPKI. 11:32:19 still, the original s-expr library written for SPKI is nice. The canonical form is apparently for hashing and comparisons, and that *is* an important thing for comparing two sexprs. 11:32:22 (The whole thing makes it tempting to csail and ask Rivest about it.) 11:32:32 the transport format is much less readable. 11:32:41 (Specifically, who's bright idea was to create such a terminology mess.) 11:32:53 eli: what terminology mess? 11:33:14 "canonical s-expressions" vs "s-expressions". 11:33:17 "canonical" S-expr. sound very similar to "canonical XML" which does the same stuff. 11:34:14 canonical xml seems like it would still be xml. 11:36:16 clhs #+ 11:36:16 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhq.htm 11:37:16 hrm, seems like #2+foo is not allowed 11:37:59 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban1.inka-online.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:38:24 best to read its author about it http://people.csail.mit.edu/rivest/Sexp.txt 11:39:11 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:39:53 tcr: #2 ? 11:40:13 billitch: See above. (And in any case, I doubt that Rivest hangs around any of the MIT Lisp circles.) 11:42:07 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:42:23 err i'm lagging 11:42:57 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:44:18 amaron_ [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 11:45:43 -!- SandGorgon_ [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:47:21 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-182-51.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:49:27 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-40-75.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:49:41 -!- Joreji [~thomas@91-190.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:50:43 adamvh [~adamvh@c-69-136-131-100.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:51:02 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 11:52:58 so where's the reader macro ?? =) 11:54:12 jao [~jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:54:55 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@c-69-136-131-100.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 11:54:59 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 11:56:56 nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 11:57:52 adamvh [~adamvh@c-69-136-131-100.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:57:53 tcr: #2+ not allowed in what sense? 11:58:24 #2+nil to skip to forms 11:58:28 two 11:58:49 -!- amaron_ [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:59:52 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:59:56 tcr: ah, yes. But it isn't (necessarily) an error. It just doesn't do anything. 12:00:13 (anything extra or different, that is) 12:03:13 Wow, googling for "#2+" is amazingly useless (: 12:03:39 So in my super-cool testing DSL I have (wait-until (become :created) *task*) which blocks and wait until the task's status becomes :created. 12:04:15 What's a good name for a predicate that does the opposite? I know have (wait-until (leave :created) *task*) but "leave" does not make much sense in other scenarios 12:04:23 s/know/now/ 12:05:03 could you do :created and (not :created) ? 12:05:39 nope become is actually a function which returns a function suitable for wait-until 12:06:09 but still... 12:07:03 Guthur [~Michael@host213-122-221-177.range213-122.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:07:17 is and is-not ? (until sort of includes the idea of becoming) 12:07:18 how about (become '(not (member :created :updated))) 12:07:19 ? 12:07:32 s/member/or 12:07:40 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 12:09:10 *splittist* has a Heidiggerian flashback 12:11:10 I tend towards not-anymore 12:11:11 -!- Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:11:23 how's that? 12:11:44 Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 12:11:55 tcr: *become* :created? 12:12:05 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@e195-210.eduroam.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:12:08 What happens if it's already :created? 12:12:41 it returns immediately 12:12:51 Do you really want edge triggering? 12:13:06 how about IS and IS-NOT? 12:13:07 hm? 12:13:20 Ah, so it reads as edge triggering but acts like level triggering. What's wrong with IS/IS-NOT or UNTIL/WHILE? 12:13:44 that's already used by the test suite itself 12:14:20 It's a freaking testing dsl anyway :-) so I'm fine with not-anymore, or no-longer. What do you prefer? 12:14:25 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:14:42 no-longer is shorter ;) 12:15:14 NOT 12:15:40 IS 12:15:57 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 12:18:18 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0177-82-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 12:21:26 <_3b`> what does (declare (values)) mean on lisps that support that declaration? 12:21:40 _3b`: declare the return type. 12:22:10 <_3b`> pkhuong: i mean (values) literally, with no args 12:22:27 Unfortunately, SBCL does not take that declaration into account for defgeneric, iirc 12:22:49 I just read than in 2005, Common Lisp was the only object-oriented language that met the requirements of OMG (Object Management Group - the UML and CORBA guys) 12:22:58 I am having a hard time to find any official document for this 12:23:08 have any of you seen something about this? 12:23:12 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:23:47 _3b`: on SBCL, nothing, since (values) defaults to (values &rest t). 12:24:12 <_3b`> ok, so (values &optional) is the way to say it returns nothing? 12:24:35 mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has joined #lisp 12:24:37 _3b`: Yes. No optionals, no rest, and no required args. 12:25:18 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has joined #lisp 12:25:27 plage [~user@serveur5.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 12:25:31 Good afternoon! 12:25:40 Hello plage. 12:25:41 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0177-82-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:25:50 G'morning everyone-but-plage. 12:26:08 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0177-82-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 12:26:12 mornin', nyef ;) 12:26:19 and everyone-but-nyef too ;P) 12:26:51 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:26:52 fihi09``` [~user@pool-96-224-46-250.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:27:03 Dodek [dodek@wikipedia/Dodek] has joined #lisp 12:27:12 _3b`: except there's a bug in process-1-decl that makes it barf when values has exactly 1 argument and it's not actually a type. 12:27:28 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 12:28:20 -!- poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has quit [Quit: poet] 12:28:33 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:28:55 <_3b`> pkhuong: i was just curious since i was adding it to my lisp, not likely to actually use it in sbcl :) 12:29:31 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:29:40 <_3b`> i don't have proclaim/declaim yet, or i would have just used ftype 12:29:54 _3b`: they 12:30:14 re only equivalent under some assumption that functions won't be redefined. 12:30:48 <_3b`> true, in this case ftype is actually closer to what i wanted though 12:31:19 _3b: there's also sb-int:sfunction which interprets (values) like one would expect 12:32:49 "would expect" could probably be argued with :-) 12:33:29 might expect? 12:34:19 fisxoj [~fisxoj@80.153.54.206] has joined #lisp 12:37:14 ryepup [~user@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 12:41:59 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:42:04 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:42:48 Joreji [~thomas@88-126.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:45:24 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:45:25 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:45:46 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:46:15 if anyone's awake, could you take a look at and check that it contains enough relevant information? 12:46:57 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 12:48:16 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 12:49:17 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has quit [Quit: workworkwork] 12:49:23 maybe "presentations" in plural form? 12:50:05 carlocci [~nes@93.37.222.13] has joined #lisp 12:50:12 I could buy that 12:50:21 Xof: I'm a little unfamiliar with European geography, so I'm not sure if your message includes a clear indication of city and country. (kings of portugal is a good hint...) 12:50:30 aha, good point there 12:51:44 it did not, but your excellent detective skills are clearly well attuned 12:51:49 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 12:53:00 btw, anyone remembers something about that "CLOS is the only Object System that fullfils all requirements of OMG's definition" thing? 12:55:45 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:55:57 vaguely 12:57:49 wgl` [~wgl@119.sub-75-207-195.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 12:58:31 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 12:58:36 -!- lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 12:59:11 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:59:33 TeMPOraL was looking for source/quotes etc. 12:59:56 anyway, http://arxiv.org/abs/1003.2547 <--- this is, IMHO, awesome case of CLOS being translated to C (thx for the link, TeMPOraL) 13:03:25 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-30.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.] 13:05:12 Xof: what about the date/time of the banquet and excursion. And perhaps only one climate for Sintra. 13:06:35 too late 13:06:57 you have to move quickly in this game 13:07:13 (thanks :-) 13:07:37 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:08:14 Maybe next time... 13:09:33 Anyone know whether, and if so what, bids were submitted for hosting ILC2011? 13:10:14 -!- runenes [~rune@179.80-202-108.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:10:44 -!- Dodek [dodek@wikipedia/Dodek] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:14:43 billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 13:14:43 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Changing host] 13:14:43 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 13:15:44 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0177-82-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has left #lisp 13:15:52 -!- Joreji [~thomas@88-126.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:16:07 kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-52.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 13:17:47 gotta go, cu 13:17:59 -!- TeMPOraL [~temporal@178.182.180.146.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has quit [Quit: .•«UPP»•.] 13:19:11 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:19:12 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@playboxgames.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:20:26 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75759f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:24:29 csamuels` [~user@host-68-169-155-1.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #lisp 13:24:57 -!- csamuels` [~user@host-68-169-155-1.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Client Quit] 13:28:55 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:29:46 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 13:30:24 ... speech recognition runs on triphone models, but synthesis on diphones? WTF? 13:31:32 ZabaQ [~john.conn@playboxgames.com] has joined #lisp 13:31:45 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@playboxgames.com] has left #lisp 13:31:55 hmm... I'd say understandable. 13:31:58 anyone know of a concurrency lib that works lispworks, Pcall and eager future both dont work 13:32:51 csamuelson [~user@host-68-169-155-1.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #lisp 13:33:31 seamus-android [~alistair@host86-182-199-98.range86-182.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:33:46 nyef: speach recognition and synthesis are distinctly different subjects, actually. Quite a lot of speech is centered around diphones (though japanese takes it to extreme, iirc), so it flows nicely with it, while recognition needs not to create artificial sounds that flow together nicely, but recognize similar-sounding but different patterns. 13:33:51 Yes, okay, understandable. You need the triphone models for tolerable recognition performance, and you can get away with comparatively worse synthesis... 13:34:34 nyef: have you heard of Vocaloid? 13:34:47 I might have. 13:35:10 Ah, right. Yes, I have. 13:35:11 it explicitly used pre-recorded sounds of various kana and some extra rules and processing, to create quite good "singing" 13:35:14 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 13:36:51 it works quite well mainly because there's good match between written language and phonetics, in this case 13:37:17 davertron [~Dave@74-92-46-229-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:37:48 Yeah, I tried messing with festival last night, and some of its choices for TTS were awful. 13:38:09 nyef: it sounded good enough when I made it play the role of HAL 9000 :3 13:38:17 Heh. 13:39:03 Singing "Daisy"? 13:39:44 Well, at that time I didn't have the lyrics, so I had it do the speech before that :) 13:40:38 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 13:41:41 merl15_ [~merl@188-22-25-248.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 13:44:39 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:45:29 -!- smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:49:23 Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 13:51:46 -!- wgl` [~wgl@119.sub-75-207-195.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:52:01 hlavaty [~user@77-22-100-58-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 13:52:52 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:54:40 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-avlqpapetfybsibl] has left #lisp 14:04:35 schme [~marcus@c83-254-196-101.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 14:04:35 -!- schme [~marcus@c83-254-196-101.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Changing host] 14:04:35 schme [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 14:08:11 csamuels` [~user@host-68-169-155-1.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #lisp 14:08:40 -!- csamuelson [~user@host-68-169-155-1.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:12:01 pkhuong: I find your usage of lower/upper-bound for types contrary to what I'd expect them to mean 14:12:19 though that might be the established usage in the field, I have absolutely no experience with type systems 14:12:19 -!- plage [~user@serveur5.labri.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:12:51 Axius [~hi@92.85.220.37] has joined #lisp 14:14:35 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 14:15:17 pers [~user@p5DC72C63.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:15:52 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 14:16:33 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:16:45 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 14:17:34 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:20:07 -!- csamuels` [~user@host-68-169-155-1.WISOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:20:24 does lisp have some equivalent to Haskell's "take n"? 14:21:21 adamvh: not really but a combination of ldiff and nthcdr can do it. 14:21:24 adamvh: (subseq seq 0 (1+ n)) 14:21:38 or that. 14:21:41 thanks 14:22:02 mathrick: "upper" as in the type hierarchy, T is the topmost and most general type 14:22:37 gigamonkey: is your atom feed OK? it's been timing out for ~week or so when I fetch my RSS feeds 14:22:52 -!- jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit [Quit: Boot me gently] 14:22:53 how many does "take n" take? 14:23:11 (I think tcr has an off-by-one) 14:23:24 perhaps, but I'm sure adamvh will figure that one out :-) 14:24:55 mathrick: If you declare a binding to be of type SIMPLE-STRING, it means that you do not have to climb the type lattice above SIMPLE-STRING (i.e. disregard STRING, T) 14:25:50 froydnj: try now 14:26:13 adm_ [~79f1ba66@gateway/web/freenode/x-hemletkfzrptlsyx] has joined #lisp 14:26:27 Someday I'm going to have to figure out why my blog server keeps running out of memory. 14:26:38 gigamonkey: seems to work 14:26:49 gigamonkey: is the blog wordpress? 14:27:07 rsynnott: nah, homebrew Lisp stuff. 14:27:13 when being comment-spammed, wordpress tends to block while looking for spam stuff in its poorly indexed tables 14:27:16 ah, okay 14:27:52 hedonist [userpf@117.201.49.70] has joined #lisp 14:28:02 peterbb [~peterbb@ves1-1x-dhcp356.uio.no] has joined #lisp 14:28:10 where is lisp applied mostly ai?? 14:29:32 mostly airline fare search :p 14:29:33 hedonist: old, nowadays irrevelant claim. 14:29:42 hedonist: mostly animated gifs 14:29:45 *_3b`* would have guessed emacs 14:30:08 nah...seriously 14:30:10 actually, Xach may have the most correct claim these days 14:30:11 ?? 14:30:24 uh, we were serious 14:30:24 *hedonist* hello 14:30:47 hedonist: most of the stuff any computer language is used for is either numerical code, or stuff descended from AI research. Bussiness form processing separated from AI quite early :) 14:30:48 i thought it is used in artificial intelligence 14:30:56 hedonist: now you know better. 14:31:08 I'm betting more people have made animated gifs with CL than have used emacs 14:31:43 i'd guess airline fare search beats both 14:32:04 "Please dont assume Lisp is only useful for Animation and Graphics, AI, Bioinformatics, B2B and E-Commerce, Data Mining, EDA/Semiconductor applications, Expert Systems, Finance, Intelligent Agents, Knowledge Management, Mechanical CAD, Modeling and Simulation, Natural Language, Optimization, Research, Risk Analysis, Scheduling, Telecom, and Web Authoring just because these are the only things they happened to list." 14:32:17 Dunno. Hard to beat the mass appeal of cat pictures 14:33:19 <_3b`> animated gifs might be the bigger market, but it probably has more competition 14:33:32 -!- hedonist [userpf@117.201.49.70] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:34:39 -!- adm_ [~79f1ba66@gateway/web/freenode/x-hemletkfzrptlsyx] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:34:47 He couldn't handle the disillusionment 14:35:45 actually, virtual post-it notes might catch up -- http://xach.livejournal.com/247184.html 14:36:09 -!- Axius [~hi@92.85.220.37] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:36:17 *_3b`* wonders if the stuff used for airline searching would have qualified as 'ai' in the lisp==ai era 14:37:00 it used to be used for making a link aggregator out of twitter :) 14:37:05 does it work? if it does, it's not AI 14:37:06 (I really should fix that) 14:38:25 tcr: aha, that makes sense then 14:38:43 Xach: that is very interesting 14:38:45 <_3b`> Xach: so did they click the ad? 14:38:54 that was going to be my next question 14:39:15 _3b`: Well, fare search is search, and AI is search, so is the "is" relationship symmetric? 14:39:18 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@c-69-136-131-100.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: adamvh] 14:39:53 _3b`: only one click out of the thousands of views. 14:40:10 _3b`: but it apparently resulted in a sale. so the clickthrough rate is terrible but the conversion rate is great! 14:40:27 Xach: I wonder if your ad didn't look enough like an ad? :-) 14:41:36 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-5-42.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:42:53 isomer [~isomer@CPE00226b8ab7f9-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 14:43:30 nyef: Socrates is mortal, and all men are mortal, therefore all men are Socrates? 14:43:42 dlowe: Yes, exactly. 14:44:14 Although, is it not possible for all men to -be- Socrates, should they so desire? 14:44:27 in case anybody is interested, I stumbled on lisp50 notes http://lispy.wordpress.com/ 14:45:03 ... I think I'd rather see lisp500 than lisp50. More zeros. 14:45:55 udzinari: Kent Pitman took exception to those notes. You can find his reaction in the cll archives. 14:46:09 *froydnj* hands nyef a time machine 14:46:25 lisp50.0 ? :) 14:46:27 froydnj: Why? lisp500 already exists. :-P 14:46:30 those aren't 0s, those are the wheels on cliini's bicycle. 14:46:32 Xach: ok, on it 14:46:40 Xach: Heh. 14:50:21 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 14:52:46 how do i get the real part out of a complex? 14:52:59 udzinari: <4a4d30a4-adb2-4ad8-a9d5-57e578c017e8@20g2000yqt.googlegroups.com> is the message id 14:53:03 clhs realpart 14:53:03 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_realpa.htm 14:53:06 PuffTheMagic: the obscurely-named REALPART 14:53:13 haha 14:53:16 thanks 14:53:41 The harder problem is getting the imaginary part, the magnitude, and the phase. 14:53:47 -!- sunwukong [~vukung@business-80-99-161-225.business.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:54:17 -!- notsonerdysunny [~chatzilla@121.243.182.185] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:54:31 Xach: thank! 14:55:04 <_3b`> wouldn't phase be the same difficulty? 14:55:46 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:55:47 _3b`: Not really. It's obscure enough for one to throw up their hands and say "arg". :-P 14:56:02 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:56:44 ... Oh, wait. Yeah, actually, phase is that difficulty, but it's constantly -called- arg in a lot of textx. 14:56:47 texts. 14:56:48 adamvh [~adamvh@c-69-136-131-100.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:01:41 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 15:02:33 mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has joined #lisp 15:03:21 cmm- [~cmm@109.64.202.69] has joined #lisp 15:03:34 somecodehere` [~ingvar@16.198.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 15:04:43 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.64.199.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:04:53 -!- tmh [~user@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 15:04:55 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-20-136.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 15:06:07 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:06:19 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-4-14.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:06:20 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 15:08:36 -!- wvdschel [~wim@78-20-14-180.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 15:12:23 -!- eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has left #lisp 15:14:10 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 15:14:19 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:14:23 Dodek [dodek@wikipedia/Dodek] has joined #lisp 15:17:19 -!- ASau` [~user@77.246.231.35] has quit [Quit: off] 15:22:36 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 15:22:58 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has quit [Quit: -arividerchi] 15:23:02 -!- splittist [~3ecba536@gateway/web/freenode/x-ppnxlocyxizcceir] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 15:24:44 -!- cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 15:25:00 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 15:26:08 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@80.153.54.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:27:20 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:28:47 -!- orphee [~orphee@195.14.246.100] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:30:05 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:32:27 -!- mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-espbulqumdkppsjn] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:40:03 moah [~gnu@dslb-084-063-204-038.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:40:37 Phoodus [foo@174-26-247-120.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:41:27 hm, does anyone know what kind of health problems nick levine has that stopped him writing his book? 15:41:32 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@200.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:42:38 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 15:43:05 moah: That's news to me. Where can I learn more about that? 15:43:20 on planet lisp and/or his blog. 15:43:47 :-/ 15:44:03 He seemed pretty live and kicking at ECLM 15:44:23 moah: thanks. 15:44:59 He seemed fine at SBCL10 as well. 15:45:23 alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 15:45:23 probably a very recent diagnostics then 15:46:48 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:50:19 Joreji [~thomas@88-126.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:51:30 milanj [~milanj_@109.93.17.235] has joined #lisp 15:52:16 -!- isomer [~isomer@CPE00226b8ab7f9-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:52:38 alexsuraci_ [~alexsurac@32.170.89.93] has joined #lisp 15:54:18 lnostdal [~lnostdal@200.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 15:58:30 -!- echo-area [~zhujun@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:58:47 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 16:01:02 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@adsl-75-36-214-244.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:02:05 kpreid___ [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:02:16 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:02:23 -!- kpreid___ is now known as kpreid 16:02:28 -!- hlavaty [~user@77-22-100-58-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:03:05 -!- Joreji [~thomas@88-126.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:04:25 -!- vtl [~user@nat/redhat/x-irwqtwvpbwgrbmfi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:06:25 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:06:34 -!- somecodehere` [~ingvar@16.198.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:06:50 Joreji [~thomas@85-032.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 16:08:37 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:09:05 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:09:20 nowhere_man [~pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:10:22 -!- varjag is now known as varjagg 16:10:25 loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has joined #lisp 16:12:25 -!- rootzlevel [~hpd@91-66-191-155-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:14:47 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 16:17:58 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:19:20 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 16:20:51 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 16:21:21 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:22:17 lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 16:24:16 ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 16:24:19 -!- kuwabara [~kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:24:33 hello 16:24:40 -!- bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:26:45 TeMPOraL [~temporal@wifi-wpa.agh.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 16:30:33 rootzlevel [~user@91-66-191-155-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 16:30:55 merl15__ [~merl@188-22-171-42.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 16:31:36 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75759f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:49 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:31:52 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 16:34:48 -!- merl15_ [~merl@188-22-25-248.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:35:52 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Client Quit] 16:35:56 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 16:35:58 isomer [~isomer@CPE00226b8ab7f9-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 16:38:35 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 16:38:49 -!- isomer [~isomer@CPE00226b8ab7f9-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Client Quit] 16:40:17 fiveop [~fiveop@189.60.103.189] has joined #lisp 16:41:08 do we have some CL lib that provides something like http://docs.plt-scheme.org/guide/contracts.html 16:41:16 ? 16:41:56 avatar81 [~foo@194-177-204-129.uth.gr] has joined #lisp 16:42:20 levente_meszaros: There might be, or if you want a stronger guarantee there's always ACL2. 16:43:15 This implementation of contracts seems to be somewhat dependent on the PLT module system, though. 16:43:49 -!- avatar81 [~foo@194-177-204-129.uth.gr] has left #lisp 16:44:23 _macro [~macro@shiva.mochimedia.net] has joined #lisp 16:45:26 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@189.60.103.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:47:02 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:47:05 zomgbie [~jesus@81.217.133.138] has joined #lisp 16:47:46 -!- loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:48:07 skeptomai [~cb@67.40.185.246] has joined #lisp 16:48:42 amaron_ [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 16:49:03 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@81.217.133.138] has left #lisp 16:49:22 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 16:49:34 mqw [~user@dslb-088-067-055-188.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:49:52 poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has joined #lisp 16:50:18 mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 16:50:49 dialtone [~dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:50:49 -!- dialtone [~dialtone@adsl-99-136-101-166.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:50:49 dialtone [~dialtone@unaffiliated/dialtone] has joined #lisp 16:51:30 is sb-posix the best option if I need to write a program that creates directories? (assuming of course I'm on a POSIX system) 16:51:32 -!- udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-rbayeesfnrgjxjdu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:51:43 minion: cl-fad 16:51:44 cl-fad: CL-FAD is a portable pathname library based on code from Peter Seibel's book Practical Common Lisp. http://www.cliki.net/cl-fad 16:51:49 poet: That, or iolib, or cl-fad, or... 16:51:56 or osicat? 16:52:12 or ENSURE-DIRECTORIES-EXIST? 16:52:26 Okay, yes, ensure-directories-exist is in the standard. 16:52:38 clhs e-d-e 16:52:38 ENSURE-DIRECTORIES-EXIST: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_ensu_1.htm 16:52:53 ah, excellent 16:53:06 Don't forget the trailing slash on directory pathnames! 16:53:09 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [] 16:53:12 I don't know how I missed that when I was browsing through the hyperspec 16:53:20 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 16:53:47 nyef: yeah I'm validating input with pathname-p, so I've learned to do 'test/' instead of 'test' :-p 16:54:00 I'm pretty sure e-d-e works somewhat reasonably in practice given a raw posix pathname (with a slash at the end!), but it probably isn't required to 16:54:32 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 16:54:42 There are a lot of things about the pathname system that are required to happen by spec but don't happen in practice. 16:54:49 raw posix pathname? 16:55:13 I can write lisp programs that make lisp programs? 16:55:13 *Xach* uses ensure-directories-exist about 10,000 times per day 16:55:16 that is weird 16:55:25 wolgo: You don't know your own strength? 16:55:35 -!- Joreji [~thomas@85-032.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:55:37 Xach: well, I started learning lisp last night 16:55:40 wheee 16:55:42 wolgo: it's not weird, it's normal... it's everything else that's weird :-p 16:55:46 Xach: I'm rusty, sorry! you know, a string that may contain characters that CL may not allow in a pathname 16:55:54 that is awesome 16:56:02 wolgo: I used to write C programs that wrote C programs. 16:56:15 no thanks 16:56:21 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 16:56:26 Yeah, it wasn't pretty. 16:56:41 I did it with BBC BASIC, they didn't write particularly /goog/ programs, but still 16:56:45 so lisp is like a meta-meta language 16:56:54 -!- ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:57:02 I am feeling pretty excited about this 16:57:10 #1=(meta . #1#) 16:57:14 so excited I am going to waste my entire day at work learning liso 16:57:15 lisp 16:57:20 err, not waste 16:57:27 but actually do something awesome 16:57:32 rather than something that sucks 16:57:58 only one day? that's nothing 16:57:59 wolgo: You know about the book Practical Common Lisp already? 16:58:15 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:58:50 tcr: yeah I own it 16:58:55 I have paip too 16:59:18 I like pcl but I would like it more if there were some challenges 16:59:30 it is more like a "Here is the source, read it and learn" 16:59:50 that's a challenge, isn't it? 16:59:56 no 17:00:04 wolgo: So read. And learn. ;-) 17:00:10 that is the solution before being presented with the problem. 17:00:19 It is a good book 17:00:20 wolgo: Yes, that's true. I suggest you read through it once, then go and read some existing Common Lisp software that interests you 17:00:41 wolgo: try to understand it with PCL in your hand, try to modify it, come here and ask for feedback on your code 17:00:52 I just have to read it - noting the descriptions of what the author is describing, hopefully pulling out some kind of specification on the way 17:00:58 then implementing it and comparing it to his. 17:01:15 wolgo: Perhaps PAIP is better suited to your style of learning, then? 17:01:32 wolgo: btw, gigamonkey is the author 17:01:48 yeah I like paip because there are exercises 17:01:52 Another way is to try to reimplement stuff from clhs, come here and be ridiculed for all the bits you're doing wrong :-) 17:01:57 I like pcl because there are "real projects" 17:02:09 gigamonkey: you wrote that book? 17:02:11 that is awesome 17:02:26 wolgo: do you know about project Euler? 17:02:29 ahh, gigamonkey, I should have put 2 and two together 17:02:32 stassats`: yeah 17:03:14 isomer [~isomer@CPE00226b8ab7f9-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 17:03:24 it's good for exercising your lisp, challenging too 17:03:30 okay 17:03:48 well I have not gotten much further than format t hello world type stuff 17:03:51 wolgo: glad you like it. Sorry about no exercises. 17:04:00 don't apologize 17:04:07 can anyone point me to some reading on the use of double backquote? 17:04:14 your book is good 17:04:18 I just like exercises 17:04:30 Exercises are more for textbooks than for general readership, aren't they? 17:04:36 I bet a million other people like it because it doesn't have exercises 17:04:42 nyef: yeah 17:04:43 Yeah. Some folks do. I never do them in books I read so I wasn't very motivated to spend time coming up with them. ;-) 17:05:10 I figure the best exercises are the problems you set for yourself. 17:05:19 yeah 17:05:24 that is totally true 17:05:51 gigamonkey: I like that the book is both text and library, and exercises would probably detract from that 17:06:10 I can write length or sum 1,000,000 times but it will not make me learn anything because I can implement it in another language already 17:06:27 gigamonkey: I found the binary-data.lisp file in particularly to be really useful 17:06:29 it seems like all exercises are the same 17:06:58 -!- amaron_ [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:07:01 adamvh: glad to hear it! 17:07:45 wolgo: you can write fortran in any language, that's true 17:08:03 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:08:25 I actually worked about 9 chapters of the little schemer 17:08:30 about six months ago 17:08:34 I liked it 17:08:47 it helped me program without loops. 17:08:58 ... No it didn't. 17:09:02 and I learned about recursion and bases cases and stuff 17:09:13 nyef: okay 17:09:24 CL will teach you to program with loops! 17:09:25 I feel some philisophical tenets coming 17:09:29 Without explicit loops, perhaps, but recursion is iteration 17:09:47 nyef: point taken 17:10:08 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:10:25 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has joined #lisp 17:10:41 I am going to make a maze generator for a roguelike I want to build. 17:11:03 I think that all RPG games should be completely random, except storyline. 17:11:18 I am going to make it with alien technology 17:11:20 Some part of me says "ambitious", but another part of me reminds me that my first major lisp project turned into a computer emulator. 17:11:36 on gamedev.pl we have a rule 17:11:46 avoid cRPG or you'll end up working on a never-finished project for a year 17:12:02 so be warned ;) 17:12:04 TeMPOraL: "cRPG"? 17:12:07 what is cRPG? 17:12:10 computer RPG's 17:12:14 Ah. 17:12:37 well I built the room generators in ruby in a couple of days 17:12:42 but it was a pain in the ass 17:13:05 TeMPOraL: ahh okay 17:13:09 good advice 17:13:11 -!- poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has quit [Quit: poet] 17:13:46 a roguelike is pretty ambitious 17:13:58 we will see how it goes 17:14:02 if it is not your first game, you're an experienced developer, then ok - but if you just start with game development, then it is dangerous to start with RPGs 17:14:08 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:14:11 I am sure that nothing bad will happen. 17:14:20 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 17:14:30 I have made a couple games. A couple of towlrs and a platformer using AS3 17:15:05 AS3 - Action Script? 17:16:00 Xach; interesting asdf reference 17:16:07 Heh. Was it _3b` with the lisp->as3 bytecode compiler? 17:16:31 nyef: lichtblau has something like that too. 17:16:32 bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 17:17:11 *gigamonkey* is trying to decide whether he cares that Lisp is outlawed for AppStore apps 17:17:25 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:17:27 silenius [~silenius@f053001246.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:17:27 Xach: who's the author of that asdf write up? 17:17:44 froydnj: i thought so. i think there's some mileage in documenting good & bad practices (and why they're good or bad) 17:17:58 not sure what to do about all the useful and valid things those silly side-effectful forms in .asd files do, though 17:18:05 froydnj: much of asdf system authoring seems to be "copy what someone else did in a similar (or not so similar) project" 17:18:12 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 17:18:20 Xach: oh, definitely. you can see that from the complete table 17:18:27 Isn't that much of how Makefile authoring works too? 17:18:31 stassats`: ECL dude 17:18:34 gigamonkey: I both care and don't-care. I doubt I'll buy any recent apple product, though. 17:19:19 gigamonkey: heh, I think so. 17:19:29 *Xach* is going to make roflbot for ipad 17:19:44 Whoops, Nick Levine is bailing on his Lisp book. 17:20:13 nyef: I was all set to buy a shiny new Mac Book Pro. Probably still will. 17:20:47 I will probably end up getting a mac as well... A used G5 tower. 17:22:17 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:23:15 loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has joined #lisp 17:23:56 Xach: are you going to cheat and use ECL or something. Or live within the TOS and use Obj-C. 17:24:19 wasabi [~wasabi@nttkyo705132.tkyo.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 17:24:47 gigamonkey: I expect I'll use the normal and required things. 17:24:53 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:25:44 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 17:26:04 Is the Obj-C on the iPad the version that has GC? 17:26:04 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:26:11 zomgbie [~jesus@81.217.133.138] has joined #lisp 17:26:16 ost` [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 17:26:37 ugh: just wrote ,',@body .. now I need to understand it :) 17:27:12 gigamonkey: My progress on the project has been approximately what I wrote just now, on IRC...plus checking to see if Impact is bundled with the system (it's not) 17:27:15 -!- mqw [~user@dslb-088-067-055-188.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 17:27:27 *Xach* is waiting to hear back about licensing terms from Ascender Corp 17:27:28 gigamonkey: what inspired you to make this book? 17:27:32 this is a lot of work. 17:27:37 Which, PCL? 17:27:39 (I bought a copy btw) 17:27:40 yeah 17:27:49 you have written several books? 17:27:59 I've written another. Coders at Work 17:27:59 lhz: I find that breaking up nested backquotes into separate macros helps a bit. 17:28:12 Xach: couldn't you just get some cheap fake Impact? :) 17:28:13 lhz: Though I suspect that it's not always possible. 17:28:18 And now I'm in the process of starting a magazine http://www.codequarterly.com 17:28:30 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-16-247-61.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:28:31 wolgo: it was interesting to see the questions he asked on comp.lang.lisp while he was working on it 17:29:01 gigamonkey: no GC on iPhoneOS Obj-C, no 17:29:03 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-16-247-61.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:05 lhz: I spent quite a bit of time hand-expanding various backquote expressions according to the rules in the CLHS and never developed any intuitive understanding of it. 17:29:23 I think the reality is there are a few idioms that you learn the meaning of and then you're done. 17:29:59 Or you do what nyef said. Remember, backquoting isn't magic, it's just shorthand for list building code you could write by hand. 17:30:23 *_3b`* wonders if slime could be made to highlight the corresponding ` and , or ,@ sort of like show-paren mode, and if it could, would it help 17:31:17 I'm sorry to hear Nick Levine is in poor health both for his sake and because I wanted to see how long it was going to actually take him to finish his book. 17:31:26 -!- loxs [~loxs@78.90.124.181] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:32:02 It's not that backquoting isn't magic, it's that it's the special sort of magic that's obvious in retrospect. 17:32:27 Is it still magic once you understand it? 17:32:53 Yes. 17:33:01 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109.93.17.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:33:02 he said oreilly is still interested in publishing one, how probable is that a successor will step up to finish it? 17:33:05 "I understand that this is magic" 17:33:23 Knowing how the magic works gives you a deeper appreciation for it. 17:33:39 and then there is "more magic" 17:34:05 dcrawford: Heh. So, what happens if you flip the switch? 17:34:13 Xach: nice article on asdf 17:34:52 nyef: understanding that there is no spoon 17:34:55 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@c-69-136-131-100.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: adamvh] 17:35:05 There is only Zuul. 17:35:23 dcrawford: No, no. If you flip the "more magic" switch to the "magic" position then the computer crashes. 17:35:32 ... I know that ... 17:35:34 dlowe: I'm trying to remember why Juanjo isn't on planet lisp (if there is a reason) 17:36:24 moah: Dunno. There were a bunch of people interested when O'Reilly let it be known they wanted Lisp book proposals. 17:36:47 nyef: that's why it crashes, the spoon is there holding it working until you realize it's not (the running off of the cliff principle) 17:37:24 nyef: the spoon is the lid keeping the magic smoke in :) 17:37:50 milanj [~milanj_@109.93.206.223] has joined #lisp 17:37:53 HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 17:37:53 -!- silenius [~silenius@f053001246.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:37:54 lhz: wouldn't ,',@body expand to the evaluation of the symbol resulting from the spliced evaluation of body? 17:38:19 (I wouldn't be suprised if that was completely wrong though) 17:38:31 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:43 poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has joined #lisp 17:40:00 -!- poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has quit [Client Quit] 17:42:17 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:42:34 plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-30-16.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 17:42:49 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 17:43:46 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 17:44:58 rdd` [~user@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 17:45:07 semyon421 [~semyon@178.176.244.102] has joined #lisp 17:46:10 ... ,',@body seems wrong, somehow, in a "what's the maximum number of args to quote again" kind of way. 17:49:08 nyef: unless body is a one-item list containing a list or some such. 17:49:28 -!- rdd` is now known as rdd 17:49:28 (let ((body '((+ 1 2)))) ``(outer ,',@body)) => `(OUTER (+ 1 2)) 17:49:53 Where that comes up in practice, I have no idea. 17:50:38 jmbr [~jmbr@135.245.218.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 17:57:40 Yeah, seems odd to call it BODY, then, though. 17:57:53 _3b`: Cool idea 17:58:27 nyef: sometimes I end up with what I know are singleton for accumulator that only have an initial value as something else. 17:59:09 tcr: do you see why interrupts are allowed around lutex calls? 17:59:48 I've never looked at the lutex code because I'm not addressed neither the target of the code I'm writing 18:00:53 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:01:53 we sure as hell don't try to handle interrupts for futexes. 18:02:02 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 18:02:31 How do you mean? 18:02:39 we just loop on EINTR. 18:02:48 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 18:03:18 Paolo [~Paolo@h-68-166-158-210.chcgilgm.static.covad.net] has joined #lisp 18:03:21 if you do not want to re-invent the wheel every time you should definitely look at www.byteinn.com 18:03:32 really, at www.byteinn.com you can make your own code repository online, it's really useful 18:03:36 every time what? 18:03:46 bah can someone kick that spammer 18:03:48 Paolo: go away. 18:03:59 -!- beaumonta [~abeaumont@85.48.202.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:04:21 zomg spamxor 18:04:30 i wanted to suggest a useful tool... 18:04:37 smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:04:37 i wanna discussa about it 18:04:42 pkhuong: well the comment explains it, although there's an edge case where returning in that case would be better 18:04:48 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Xach 18:04:51 -!- Xach has set mode +b *!*Paolo@*.chcgilgm.static.covad.net 18:04:57 Paolo: 18:04:57 -!- Paolo [~xach@cpe-72-227-90-1.maine.res.rr.com] has been kicked from #lisp by Xach (Go away, you useless tool.) 18:05:08 hahah awesome 18:05:08 tcr: right, so we don't return or process pending interrupts on EINTR for futex calls 18:05:23 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 18:05:31 But for some reason, we allow interrupts around blocking calls on lutexes. 18:05:57 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:06:03 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:06:03 pkhuong: I'd have expected that we -do- process pending interrupts; but I never found out how allow-with-interrupts plays with alien calls 18:06:08 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:06:20 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 18:06:30 I mean I've not even found the relevant part in the source base 18:06:33 -!- Xach has set mode -bbbb *!*jthing@212.251.245.* *!*jthing@*.customer.cdi.no *!*@201.160.235.225.cable.dyn.cableonline.com.mx *!*@24-107-56-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com 18:06:37 -!- Xach has set mode -b *!*ElViking@*.160.144.36.cable.dyn.cableonline.com.mx 18:06:48 lutexes have with-interrupt around the calls. Futexes have nothing (they 18:06:58 return with EINTR, and we don't do anything special then) 18:07:00 -!- Xach has set mode -o Xach 18:07:20 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-197-195.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 18:07:28 well I assumed that alien calls / syscalls receive pending interrupts in case *allow-with-interrupts* is T 18:07:44 and that's the reason for the a-w-i around futex-wake 18:07:52 I'm talking about futex-wait. 18:07:58 -!- isomer [~isomer@CPE00226b8ab7f9-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:08:14 -!- dostoyev1ky [sck@oemcomputer.oerks.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:08:49 oh wait futex-wait does have a with-interrupt around %futex-wait 18:09:11 Edward [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-74-162.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:09:16 that just explained a mystery to me :-) 18:09:29 oh, good then (: 18:09:37 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:09:50 doesn't that open us up to races and what not? 18:09:51 M-. jumping to top-level form is annoying, I really have to get around fixing that 18:11:34 I don't think so, in the worst case we get a spurious wake up (due to token change) in the next iteration of the loop 18:11:47 right, we don't use any other word. 18:11:47 -!- schme [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:12:47 schme [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 18:15:14 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:15:48 daniel___ [~daniel@p5082BFEC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:16:22 so, tests still hang with semaphores. As far as I can tell, either nanosleep stops working when you use semaphores too much, and/or we really like hitting threads with interrupt *just before* they enter %lutex-lock. 18:16:43 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@81.217.133.138] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:16:48 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 18:17:58 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 18:18:04 that's sort of avoidable by only using timed locks and polling for interrupts from time to time. 18:18:42 nyef,Xach: _3b is the one with the AVM2 compiler, mine is for AVM1 18:18:51 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082E478.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:18:58 (and AS3 is for AVM2, AS2 for AVM1) 18:19:23 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has left #lisp 18:19:35 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 18:19:49 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:20:08 -!- seamus-android [~alistair@host86-182-199-98.range86-182.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:21:41 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:21:57 attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-132-189-83.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 18:22:52 slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 18:23:15 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 18:23:29 although hopefully by the time AVM2 catches up with the JVM sometime next decade, HTML5 will have long swept it away 18:24:58 rread_ [~rread@63.204.222.2] has joined #lisp 18:25:02 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:25:21 meh, what's mutex-%owner for again? 18:25:48 oh, right, recursive acquisition. 18:26:29 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:26:41 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 18:28:29 seamus-android [~alistair@host86-183-193-143.range86-183.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:36:35 -!- potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f666fba-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [] 18:36:48 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:36:49 pkhuong: well which test hangs? 18:37:32 pkhuong: previously, it hanged on the first one, single-producer-single-consumer -- that's actually -not- the nasty one firing interrupts all around 18:37:51 the scheduler is also fucked. 18:39:02 -!- rread_ [~rread@63.204.222.2] has quit [Quit: rread_] 18:39:34 if it's still s-p-s-c, how would that explain the %nanosleep breakage? 18:40:16 -!- sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:40:16 sellout- [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:40:19 -!- sellout- is now known as sellout 18:40:59 rread_ [~rread@63.204.222.2] has joined #lisp 18:41:35 i'm talking about the regular threads tests 18:42:07 mmkay 18:42:57 -!- schme [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:42:59 Heh. From an exercise in an old math book: "you might pay $1000 an hour for a computer that could average a million operations a second." 18:43:40 schme [~marcus@c83-254-196-101.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:43:40 -!- schme [~marcus@c83-254-196-101.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Changing host] 18:43:40 schme [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 18:43:59 tcr: at this point, the only way to get interrupts working that I can see is to rebuild mutexes on top of mutexes and condvars :\ 18:44:18 These operations are divisions and multiply-accumulates, but it's still amusing given modern systems. 18:44:39 only off by a factor of about one thousand! 18:45:11 ah, and on the "an hour" part (: 18:45:28 CPU time is cheaper than that -- Even if you have to amortize the cost of the hardware. 18:45:49 You end up paying for space rental and electricity. 18:46:16 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 18:46:21 And the electricity is going to be pennies on the hour anyway. 18:47:14 How much is it via EC2? 18:47:46 pkhuong: about 7 cent an hour for 1GHz Xeon equiv 18:48:12 If you outsource, you're going to pay for bandwidth, but that's fairly cheap... 18:48:26 electricity's usually the big cost 18:48:43 you don't just need to power the computer, you also need to cool it, which is usually more than powering it 18:49:08 rsynnott: A modern laptop? 18:49:20 sbahra [~sbahra@128.164.19.103] has joined #lisp 18:49:43 nyef: oh, no, I mean in a big-room-full-of-servers context 18:50:06 <_3b`> well, get a big room full of low power ARM chips :p 18:50:36 even then, you put in X watts of electricity, you get X watts of heat in the room 18:50:36 Yeah, and I'm saying that a modern laptop can do about that many operations. 18:50:48 isomer [~isomer@CPE00226b8ab7f9-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 18:50:58 Sure, but you need -one laptop- for this. 18:51:00 this must be removed, to prevent computers melting. Moving a watt of heat typically takes more than a watt of electricity 18:51:07 ah, yep 18:51:18 I was thinking of it in terms of the amazon ec2 example 18:51:21 I have a question 18:51:42 TeMPOraL: "The answer is rm -rf /, what was your question again?" 18:51:43 assuming that I've made a Rectangle class with slots: x, y, width, height 18:51:50 heheh :D 18:51:53 Oh, geometry. 18:51:58 -!- Guthur [~Michael@host213-122-221-177.range213-122.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Computer says no] 18:52:18 Guthur [~Michael@host213-122-221-177.range213-122.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:52:20 That's a usual set of slots for a rectangle, yes. 18:52:33 how can I create "things" that would behave like slots or accessors , but for non-existing slots; like creating additional top, bottom, left and right "slots", that are computed when accessed? 18:52:43 (I'd be surprised to find slots x, y, width, angle-of-diagonal.) 18:53:03 <_3b`> accessors are just methods 18:53:10 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:53:11 Said "things" are generic functions, if you want accessors. 18:53:17 For slots, you have to get trickier. 18:53:37 <_3b`> (or more generally, functions with setf expanders defined, but methods for CLOS) 18:53:40 ok, but "just methods" without declaring them in slot definition in (defclass - will they work with (with-accessors ? 18:54:04 in PCL I've only seen accessors as keyword-params to slot definition 18:54:11 _3b`: Umm... No. No setf-expander, it's a setf-function that is a generic-function. 18:54:13 but I'd like to make an accessor without defining a slot 18:54:17 TeMPOraL: with-accessors is only a macro that generates function calls. 18:54:46 TeMPOraL: you can lazily initialize slots via methods on the standard GF SLOT-UNBOUND. 18:54:54 *Xach* uses that from time to time 18:55:14 Xach: That would be fairly nasty in terms of storage cost, and worse if the rectangles are mutable. 18:55:43 <_3b`> nyef: i thought CLHS defined 'accessor' more generally? 18:55:49 nyef: i thought it worth mentioning as a general technique. 18:56:04 _3b`: For general accessors, yes. But for CLOS, no. 18:56:21 <_3b`> right 18:56:30 At least, I'm fairly sure it doesn't. 18:56:37 Xach: Fair enough. 18:56:54 can specbot do glossary? 18:57:04 maybe slot-missing then? 18:57:14 TeMPOraL: why do you want a slot? 18:57:14 TeMPOraL: it can help if you don't think of objects as buckets of slots, but as things you can use to work with a sensible generic function protocol. 18:57:20 tcr: Unfortunately, not so far as I know. 18:57:39 -!- rread_ [~rread@63.204.222.2] has quit [Quit: rread_] 18:57:44 rread_ [~rread@63.204.222.2] has joined #lisp 18:57:54 TeMPOraL: for example, what generic functions make sense for working with rectangles? and after you decide that, you can decide which methods can be automatically defined via defclass as slot accessors and which aren't. 18:57:55 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-40-75.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:02 anyway, how would you implement that - a rectangle with slots for x,y,width and height and additional (setf-able) "virtual slots" for top, bottom, left and right to use alternatively 18:58:20 and that are operated with the same syntax as x,y,width,height 18:58:29 <_3b`> (defmethod top ...) (defmethod (setf top) ...) 18:58:35 yes definitively try to understand what Xach said 18:58:45 slots are implementation detail 18:58:50 Well, if you want to be able to use slot-value, then you need the MOP. If you are willing to stick with accessors, what _3b` said. 18:59:01 -!- rread_ [~rread@63.204.222.2] has quit [Client Quit] 18:59:20 _3b`, in other words - I want 4 slots "inside", but 8 slots visible to the rest of the code - the last four doesn't exist but are computed from the first code 18:59:25 slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:49 <_3b`> TeMPOraL: do you want (slot-value a-rectangle 'top) to work, or just (top a-rectangle) ? 19:00:05 Also note that using with-slots or slot-value as part of your interface is bad form. 19:00:08 whichever is better, or 'more lispy' code 19:00:14 TeMPOraL: the latter. 19:00:16 but consistent with real slots 19:00:38 <_3b`> not having them act like real slots would be more lispy 19:00:46 <_3b`> just having accessors like (top rect) 19:00:46 ok, so generics for top/down/left/right, accessors for x/y/width/height 19:00:47 TeMPOraL: it's more usual to access "real" slots via (autogenerated) generic functions. 19:00:48 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 19:00:54 and using them like (top rect) and (x rect) ? 19:00:56 TeMPOraL: accessors *are* generic functions. 19:01:04 <_3b`> (X rect) is a generic that defclass defined for you 19:01:18 ok, and can I write a setf-able generic function ? 19:01:42 <_3b`> no, you write a generic function named (setf top) to go with top 19:01:49 finally can work on learning lisp 19:01:49 (defmethod (setf foo) (values more args)). 19:01:51 ok 19:01:54 thanks 19:01:58 thanks :) 19:02:00 *only one value. 19:02:08 friggin proprietary network appliances 19:02:10 TeMPOraL: notice the order of the arguments 19:02:18 I asked this because my friend just shown me such rectangle class in python and asked how it is done in Lisp 19:02:29 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:03:03 TeMPOraL: one fundamental difference is that generic functions are available and important in lisp OO design 19:06:46 bad_alloc [~marvin@HSI-KBW-091-089-216-020.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 19:07:04 qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has joined #lisp 19:10:06 -!- alexsuraci_ [~alexsurac@32.170.89.93] has quit [Quit: alexsuraci_] 19:10:10 hello i have some trouble with cl-irc: even though i declared and added a hook for ping messages the event is still called unhandled. did i muss something? 19:10:12 bad_alloc pasted "cl-irc ping?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97735 19:11:46 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:12:17 -!- isomer [~isomer@CPE00226b8ab7f9-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #lisp 19:12:46 -!- moah [~gnu@dslb-084-063-204-038.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:12:47 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-197-195.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:13:13 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:14:55 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:15:01 bad_alloc: Are you running a suitable listener on your connection? 19:16:12 nyef: i guess not, i just used the description in the user-guide.txt whick is pretty much the pasted code. where would i find something about listeners? 19:16:39 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 19:16:39 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-135-10.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:16:58 i wonder where people will be staying at els 2010... it's more fun to stay at the same place. is there a mailing list? 19:17:09 Actually, read-message-loop is probably a sufficient listener to start with 19:17:12 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 19:17:21 attila_lendvai: i found it led to dangerous hangovers :( 19:17:25 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:18:41 FWIW, I'm staying at the Holiday Inn Lisbon-Continental 19:18:44 nyef: so there's no huge flaw in the above code? 19:18:48 which has the virtue of being close to the venue 19:19:05 Xach, nah, one should be more serious about being a squarehead than being an alcoholic... i should just don't let my gf read this... :) 19:19:16 *attila_lendvai* makes notes 19:20:29 at least, I hope it's close to the venue 19:25:00 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 19:26:05 Edward__ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-18-210.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:26:18 gotta go, thanks again for help 19:26:21 cya around 19:26:39 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 19:27:11 -!- TeMPOraL [~temporal@wifi-wpa.agh.edu.pl] has quit [Quit: .•«UPP»•.] 19:27:19 -!- HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:27:32 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 19:28:16 -!- Edward [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-74-162.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:29:52 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:31:20 netytan [~netytan@85.211.36.59] has joined #lisp 19:31:46 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:32:54 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:33:40 potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f662e88-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 19:34:06 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 19:35:19 abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 19:35:20 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@128.164.19.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:36:22 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:37:27 -!- rootzlevel [~user@91-66-191-155-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:38:01 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 19:41:15 sugarshark [~ole@p4FDA96B1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:41:16 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 19:43:32 -!- semyon421 [~semyon@178.176.244.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:43:39 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Client Quit] 19:43:46 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 19:45:00 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 19:49:27 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 19:49:41 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 19:50:26 rootzlevel [~user@91-66-191-155-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 19:53:11 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [] 19:53:16 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 19:54:18 -!- bad_alloc [~marvin@HSI-KBW-091-089-216-020.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: You shoot yourself in somebody else's foot.] 19:55:03 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Client Quit] 19:55:09 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 19:59:31 -!- jao [~jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:00:22 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [] 20:00:38 so when I have a {} pair in an application of format that means that the item I am "format t'ing" (ba dum bum pssh) must be something I can iterate over yes? like a list 20:00:45 is that right? 20:00:55 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 20:01:34 it only works on list, to great dismay 20:02:18 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 20:02:32 oh okay 20:02:38 that is good info 20:03:19 and this token ~ means "hey, lets start reading a format rule for this item" 20:05:05 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has left #lisp 20:06:36 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:07:52 njsg [~null@unaffiliated/njsg] has joined #lisp 20:10:34 *luis* is living near the ELS venue. Yay. 20:10:47 luis: ah, so you can host hackers? 20:10:51 No expensive travel costs this time. Hurray. 20:11:19 I'm afraid not, I'm just renting a room for the time being. 20:11:48 Hondenbrokken [~kdghla@084-246-052-113.PN.nl] has joined #lisp 20:13:13 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:13:19 hi 20:13:27 a 20:13:50 -!- qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has left #lisp 20:14:14 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [] 20:14:19 -!- Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-90-56.iburst.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:14:20 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 20:14:26 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75759f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:14:30 (metabang.bind:bind (((:values (foo bar) found-p) (gethash xyzzy *hash*))) (do-something)) 20:14:45 this won't work, however i expected it will. shouldn't i? 20:15:48 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:20:16 Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-90-56.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:24:46 mmmm that gives me an idea ...any body here going to the world cup in SA...you can make it a working holiday... i could organize a lisp conference here with international speakers ...heh 20:25:27 soccer world cup that is 20:25:28 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 20:28:26 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-5-42.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 20:28:34 -!- smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:29:18 smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:29:51 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 20:29:56 rvirding [~chatzilla@h80n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 20:33:51 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 20:34:27 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:34:47 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 20:35:35 mattrepl [~mattrepl@129.174.97.34] has joined #lisp 20:37:15 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:38:26 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 20:40:29 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:40:34 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:41:56 Seems like languages with bignums should have positive and negative inifinities that compare properly with integers. 20:42:16 Or am I completely spacing and does CL have such a thing? 20:42:23 most-positive-bignum? 20:42:34 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:42:41 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 20:43:23 most-positive-bignum does exist as a concept... Someone was showing how to construct one on a lisp machine a while back. Used most of memory or something though. 20:43:36 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 20:43:42 gigamonkey: it does seem like a nice idea. Would go nicely with the similar support in floats. 20:43:46 <_3b`> presumably using /all/ of memory would be the definition of most-positive-bignum :p 20:44:09 _3b`: not quite; some fixnum implementations have array size limits, etc.... 20:44:12 _3b`: not on SBCL or CCL (32 bit). 20:44:28 <_3b`> ah, that's no fun 20:44:45 I just looked up force-output in the hyperspec. Is it like fflush? 20:44:49 it sounds like it 20:44:55 seems rather 20:45:05 mle-lucca: I know. JWZ did the implementation for the TI Explorer machines. 20:45:14 nyef: yeah, just found the page 20:45:20 hehhhh, funny stuff. 20:45:34 http://jwz.livejournal.com/854482.html for those with a perverse interest. 20:47:37 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:48:35 pers` [~user@p5DC72A47.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:49:53 Though I guess it only matters if doing comparison between a finite integer and an integer-type infinity would be more efficient than comparing to single-float-positive-infinity or some such. 20:50:25 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:52:41 -!- pers [~user@p5DC72C63.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:53:07 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 20:57:15 kuwabara [~kuwabara@cerbere.qosmos.net] has joined #lisp 20:57:46 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-16-247-61.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:57:57 -!- daniel___ is now known as daniel 20:58:00 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:58:26 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-16-247-61.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:01:34 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 21:02:37 HG` [~HG@85.8.75.189] has joined #lisp 21:03:56 drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-30.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:10 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 21:07:09 gigamonkey: I like your book more than paip now 21:07:12 here is why 21:07:37 1: it does not clutter the pages with a bunch of philisophical horseshit. 21:07:43 I forgot the other reason 21:07:52 I am only reading your book now. 21:08:15 dnolen [~dnolen@pool-70-19-69-201.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:41 Wait, wait... You don't like philosophy? 21:10:10 philisophy vs philosophy. i think i get the picture 21:10:19 Ah. 21:10:20 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:10:35 One is for philistines? 21:10:42 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-137-169.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 21:10:50 lol 21:10:55 cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 21:11:02 -!- netytan [~netytan@85.211.36.59] has quit [Quit: netytan] 21:11:48 yeah yeah 21:12:14 I guess I will not be trying out for a spelling bee anytime soon. 21:12:22 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:17:49 -!- HG` [~HG@85.8.75.189] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:18:01 -!- cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 21:18:37 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 21:19:33 -!- davertron [~Dave@74-92-46-229-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:19:45 dostoyevsky [sck@oemcomputer.oerks.de] has joined #lisp 21:22:57 enthymeme [~kraken@130.166.209.10] has joined #lisp 21:23:21 maden [~maden@modemcable136.252-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 21:23:29 TeMPOraL [~temporal@188.147.66.9.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:24:24 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 21:24:37 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-40-75.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:25:56 cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 21:27:52 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 21:30:13 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:34:27 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-132-189-83.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:36:45 -!- Hondenbrokken [~kdghla@084-246-052-113.PN.nl] has left #lisp 21:37:41 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:37:49 marioxcc [~user@200.56.154.32] has joined #lisp 21:42:54 fisxoj [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban.inka-online.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:05 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:50:52 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:52:23 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:54:28 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:56:38 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:56:50 -!- nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: Privacy rights are not to protect you from the government you know, they're to protect you from the future government you don't.] 21:57:20 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 22:03:09 It seems most software that generates circle shapes orients the circles with the 'center' at a top-left position... 22:03:17 does anyone here know why that is? 22:03:35 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 22:04:07 I use functions that create circles with 'center' at the center of the circle 22:04:16 (fatblueduck): I don't know, but it is kind of annoying most of the time I need circles 22:04:49 I'm wondering if those other programs are using an algorithm that is much better than mine 22:05:04 -!- sugarshark [~ole@p4FDA96B1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:05:15 and maybe those algrithms require the center to be at the top left 22:05:16 I guess they're just drawing a circle inside of "rectangle" you draw with your mouse 22:05:21 <_3b`> probably they just want the bounding box more often than the center 22:06:07 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:06:47 _3b`: but wouldn't it be easier for the users to have the center at the center... ? 22:07:12 and then _if_ a bounding box were needed, one could use radiusx2? 22:07:17 fatblueduck: It depends on what the user is used to and what they're trying to accomplish. 22:07:25 <_3b`> depends on what you are doing, both can be useful 22:07:36 caoliver [~oliver@75-134-208-20.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:07:36 sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has joined #lisp 22:07:39 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@129.174.97.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:07:58 nyef, I haven't seen much cases when I needed bounding box (I understand we're talking about graphics software here - GIMPs, InkScapes, ect.) 22:07:59 fatblueduck: from the pov of the rest of the system, bounding box is more important than what is inside. 22:08:06 and a LOT of cases when I needed circle center + radius 22:08:23 <_3b`> bounding box is very useful for things like redrawing quickly, kind of a nice thing to have :p 22:08:24 fatblueduck: unless you mean *drawing* software, not some library etc. 22:08:25 do you know any example when user would really want the bounding box? 22:09:20 <_3b`> when you want the circle tangent to a vertical or horizontal line, drawing it by the bounding rect could be useufl 22:09:46 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban.inka-online.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:10:06 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:10:18 Has anyone looked at Bug 561974 22:10:21 ? 22:10:24 TR2N [email@89-180-176-24.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 22:10:51 _3b` the first moment the circle touches such a line is the moment when it tangents to that line 22:11:34 p_l: would you elaborate? when, for example, making an interface, wouldn't it be easier to center a box with box.x = parent.width/2 + parent.x? rather than box.x = parent.width - box.width + parent.x? 22:11:46 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:12:00 <_3b`> TeMPOraL: ok, now make it tangent to 2 such lines first try by dragging a radius from clicking a point by eye :p 22:12:06 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:09 essentially the person using the library is 'drawing' with it 22:12:25 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0177-82-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 22:12:29 _3b`, ok, that's a better example ;) 22:12:32 fatblueduck: nope, since the whole thing is drawn from top left anyway 22:12:48 <_3b`> though from what i've seen, most people would just guess and leave it off by a few pixels anyway :p 22:12:57 I personally believe that drawing circles should be done by origin and radius 22:13:03 and you can easily get some standard transformation functions (like CLIM has) 22:13:09 and if yoiu have to specify the bounding box, then the circle is not abstracted enough 22:13:23 TeMPOraL: me too! that's what my functions do 22:13:25 TeMPOraL: have you ever worked with TeX? 22:13:26 (talking about programming and drawing libraries now) 22:13:27 *_3b`* thinks you should have both, and conveniently it is trivial to convert :p 22:13:36 p_l, not that much 22:13:47 but a lot with computer graphics and gamedeve 22:13:50 gamedev* 22:13:56 -!- peterbb [~peterbb@ves1-1x-dhcp356.uio.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:14:06 and I don't remember any case when I needed the bounding box of circle drawn ;) 22:14:27 TeMPOraL: look one day into what exactly is stored inside DVI file - it's basically a set of bounding boxes that make up the layout - the exact graphics are done by driver 22:14:28 <_3b`> don't forget to add segment of a circle starting from an endpoint of the arc :) 22:14:38 (unless it was drawn on 2D texture; but still, for my in-game objects I store center position and bounding-box size) 22:15:04 p_l, ok - that's an TeX-specific optimization 22:15:26 I read a little bit about it in some book recently 22:15:28 SICP maybe? 22:16:18 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 22:16:46 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0177-82-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:17:11 lordakinator [~igaray@190.97.33.72] has joined #lisp 22:19:37 anair_84 [~anair_84@wsip-72-215-168-118.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:19:38 my above centering function needs a correction: centered_box.x = (parent.width - box.width)/2 + parent.x 22:21:15 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 22:26:26 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.222.13] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 22:26:43 carlocci [~nes@93.37.222.13] has joined #lisp 22:27:43 rayservers [~sp@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 22:28:01 -!- Edward__ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-18-210.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 22:28:11 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 22:28:11 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:21b:63ff:fe96:e1ff] has quit [Quit: palter] 22:29:57 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:30:08 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 22:32:11 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:32:50 has anyone managed to get hunchentoot to execute php scripts? 22:33:36 Edward__ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-18-210.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:33:47 especially in a case where you have a bunch of files in a static dir (also served by hunchentoot) but code links to php scripts within that static dir? 22:35:11 -!- alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:35:35 -!- TeMPOraL [~temporal@188.147.66.9.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:36:42 TeMPOraL [~temporal@188.146.63.24.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has joined #lisp 22:39:07 -!- njsg [~null@unaffiliated/njsg] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:39:52 hypno: can't you use lighty or apache to serve those? 22:40:24 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 22:42:18 hypno: you can do that by running php as a CGI binary and you could probably manage to get FastCGI working... but yes, it's rather weird thing to do. 22:43:01 quidnunc [~user@70.49.122.16] has joined #lisp 22:43:16 You could write a php->cl compiler! 22:44:09 ok, thanks. 22:44:31 c|mell [~cmell@188-220-238-74.zone11.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:44:33 you could use the work done for phc, at least partially... 22:44:58 what is the recommended lisp implementation on linux 22:45:05 I have SBCL 22:45:29 wolgo: then you're on good way 22:45:42 okay cool 22:45:43 <_3b`> sbcl or ccl, unless you have more specific requirements 22:45:44 thanks p_l 22:46:07 wolgo: http://unya.wordpress.com/2009/06/07/linux-common-lisp-quickstart/ <--- now have a short tutorial on what to get next and what to start reading :P 22:46:13 I recommend bee lisp 22:46:13 I am just learning so if there is something better than sbcl or ccl for learning lisp I will just stick to sbcl 22:46:33 I have slime + emacs + sbcl working 22:46:54 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:46:59 wolgo: then you're set well (especially if you already have clbuild, as it's the easiest way to get libs at the moment) 22:47:12 <_3b`> yeah, that should be good 22:47:19 okay I will checkout clbuild 22:47:34 I am working through the database part of pcl right now. 22:47:57 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 22:47:59 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 22:49:01 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:49:22 fisxoj [~fisxoj@80.153.54.203] has joined #lisp 22:50:57 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-137-169.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:52:25 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:55:25 -!- Soulman [~kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:55:28 -!- marioxcc-AFK is 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