00:00:59 i already have slot definitions from class-direct-slots, so i thought calling it directly will be better 00:01:23 s/better/faster/ 00:04:13 though slot-value-using-class need effective definitions 00:05:34 fiveop [~fiveop@189.60.103.189] has joined #lisp 00:09:59 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:11:04 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.73.71] has joined #lisp 00:18:49 -!- konr1 [~konrad@201.82.134.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:19:14 -!- Soulman [~kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:22:01 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483DE1A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:24:04 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:25:33 amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 00:27:55 bezdomni [~bezdomni@c-24-62-201-164.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:28:13 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:29:00 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:35:27 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-72-228-72-196.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 00:36:22 -!- ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-23-158-168.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:38:26 -!- rtra [~rtra@unaffiliated/rtra] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:38:36 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 00:40:02 ramus [~ramus@99.23.145.200] has joined #lisp 00:43:14 woodworks [woodworks@7.st.louis-141-143rs.mo.dial-access.att.net] has joined #lisp 00:44:04 hearit [~asdd@201.255.83.135] has joined #lisp 00:46:02 -!- maden [~maden@modemcable136.252-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:46:19 -!- wgl [~wgl@c-98-227-91-74.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:54:17 -!- bezdomni [~bezdomni@c-24-62-201-164.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:54:54 bezdomni [~bezdomni@c-24-62-201-164.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:55:04 konr [~konrad@201.82.134.220] has joined #lisp 00:55:08 -!- saikat [~saikat@128.12.248.104] has quit [Quit: saikat] 01:01:32 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@189.60.103.189] has quit [Quit: humhum] 01:01:40 isomer`` [~isomer@CPE00226b8ab7f9-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 01:01:47 fiveop [~fiveop@189.60.103.189] has joined #lisp 01:04:35 -!- tsuru [~user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:05:17 -!- adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-253-149.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:05:49 adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-253-149.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 01:11:44 -!- isomer`` [~isomer@CPE00226b8ab7f9-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:13:35 isomer`` [~isomer@CPE00226b8ab7f9-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 01:15:05 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:19:14 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.210.13] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 01:20:49 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@189.60.103.189] has quit [Quit: humhum] 01:21:15 fusss [~kumi@li63-187.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 01:25:25 -!- Axioplas1_ is now known as Axioplase_ 01:26:37 -!- Axioplase_ [~Axioplase@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 01:26:40 Axioplase_ [~Axioplase@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has joined #lisp 01:27:06 -!- lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-107-225.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:27:38 -!- isomer`` [~isomer@CPE00226b8ab7f9-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:28:24 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0177-82-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 01:28:29 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 01:28:48 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 01:29:31 is there some extension that provides "named hash tables"? 01:29:48 i want something between full-blown classes and simple associative arrays 01:29:58 more like php hashes 01:30:34 fusss: and the difference would be? 01:30:49 (there's an example in AMOP, iirc) 01:30:53 at a minimum, i want unreadable objects to be printed as # instead of # 01:31:22 pkhuong: access in O(log n) for naive hashes as bintrees? 01:31:42 Axioplase_: why would you do that? 01:31:51 fusss: what for? 01:32:51 stassats`: dynamic creation of lisp objects corresponding to SOAP message types 01:33:13 # ? 01:33:22 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-252-170-201.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 01:33:40 nyef: make-hash-table takes name argument? 01:33:54 let me google that for myslf 01:33:54 It could be made to if it doesn't already. 01:34:13 fusss: so you have arbitrary slots, but you each set of slot has a class name? 01:35:05 pkhuong: i don't understand the question but i think i figured something out 01:35:09 brb 01:36:42 isomer`` [~isomer@CPE00226b8ab7f9-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 01:37:04 nyef: fwiw, there are some wsdls in the wild where message types are not directly specified in but through various indirect namespace manipulation tricks .. 01:37:37 Sounds fun. 01:38:42 IIUC, you have runtime defined message types (classes), and then get several messages of some of the runtime-defined type. 01:44:19 also, i have moved away from DWIM type conversion between xml and lisp; MAKE-SOAP now takes a soap-type-dispatcher argument which is a function which takes a response-type and the soap body in DOM to create the lisp object as the user sees fit. 01:44:40 -!- woodworks [woodworks@7.st.louis-141-143rs.mo.dial-access.att.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:45:33 response-type is the local-part of the string QNAME for that service call. So for "ns1:GetStockQuote" it's "GetStockQuote". 01:46:21 (make-soap #u"http://stocksvc.com/wsdl?v=1.2" #'soap-type-dispatcher) 01:46:57 fusss: anyway, if you'll have multiple instances with the same set of slots, you probably want to have a common dictionary for slot name -> index, and have each instance point to that dictionary and a vector of values. 01:47:17 pkhuong: will look into that 01:47:43 right now i am still unsure about requiring a complete symbol-table from the user before he can do anything with soap 01:48:01 saves a lot of space compared to a straight hash table, and you can invest some time in the dictionary to speed up lookups at the expense of insertions (e.g. cuckoo or 2-left hashes). 01:48:47 let me paste something and see how ugly it can get 01:50:01 lisppaste url 01:50:02 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 01:51:35 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:54:55 nj444 [~victory44@d149-67-140-115.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 01:56:10 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:56:47 wgl [~wgl@c-98-227-91-74.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:57:12 -!- nj444 [~victory44@d149-67-140-115.try.wideopenwest.com] has left #lisp 01:57:17 pkhuong: i asked about named hash-tables because the mapping of each soap struct to a lisp class might cause some serious namespace pollution, and confusion, even if it aides hackability 01:59:04 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-9-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:07:26 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 02:07:38 -!- isomer`` [~isomer@CPE00226b8ab7f9-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:07:45 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:08:43 fusss pasted "cl-sum api de-uglification" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97664 02:09:15 -!- rayservers [~sp@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:09:19 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 02:09:59 in this current state, to call a remote stock quote service the user would have to define the class of each response type, and wrote a deserializer that converts XML to that lisp object 02:15:42 isomer`` [~isomer@CPE00226b8ab7f9-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 02:16:40 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 02:27:31 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 02:27:37 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!] 02:29:11 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:30:30 pkhuong pasted "hash classes" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97667 02:31:46 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:31:54 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:36:58 -!- isomer`` [~isomer@CPE00226b8ab7f9-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:38:47 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:43:44 -!- bezdomni [~bezdomni@c-24-62-201-164.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Gone] 02:45:39 fatblueduck [~duck@pool-71-104-235-97.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:49:22 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 02:51:08 pkhuong annotated #97667 "Fix some thinkos, and the xml-rpc badness" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97667#1 02:53:51 lat_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 02:54:19 saikat [~saikat@99.13.242.166] has joined #lisp 02:54:27 fusss: that's what I meant re sharing the hash table between instances of the same "class". 02:56:01 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 02:57:23 -!- potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-5eea0a6a-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [] 02:59:27 pkhuong: i am looking at it. cheers! :-) 03:00:23 well, it's competitive with CLOS for slot access :\ 03:01:51 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-9-236.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 03:03:13 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-79-191.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:07:58 -!- Guthur [~Michael@host213-122-221-177.range213-122.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Computer says no] 03:15:17 -!- pkhuong [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:18:13 -!- Kyril [~RogerBaco@bas3-sherbrooke40-1242416304.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:18:46 nunb [~nundan@59.178.199.203] has joined #lisp 03:18:57 -!- seamus-android [~alistair@host86-178-140-209.range86-178.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 03:19:15 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 03:19:41 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@64.134.149.41] has joined #lisp 03:26:10 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 03:26:11 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 03:29:27 gonzojive [~red@condi.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 03:33:01 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 03:33:11 anyone happen to know if there is anything for slime to refactor the expression at point into a new function, etc.? Along the lines of this blog post: http://www.lispcast.com/uncategorized/automatic-refactoring-framework-for-common-lisp/ 03:40:30 -!- nunb [~nundan@59.178.199.203] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:40:43 There might be, but it's easy enough to do by hand as well. 03:40:57 Redshank, maybe? Not entirely sure what it does. 03:41:03 nunb [~nundan@59.178.220.33] has joined #lisp 03:46:21 local-time is a nice little lib 03:47:01 (make-instance 'cache :expiry (timestamp+ (now) 30 :minute)) 03:49:56 pkhuong [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 03:51:43 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-gduyokhljnwkggnj] has joined #lisp 03:52:49 woodworks [~woodworks@54.st.louis-141-143rs.mo.dial-access.att.net] has joined #lisp 03:58:59 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:00:19 -!- LiamH [~nobody@pool-72-75-116-136.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:03:44 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:10:28 cxml, alexandria, split-sequence, puri, drakma, cl-fad, cl-ppcre, local-time and xml-emitter 04:10:39 balooga [~00u4440@adsl-76-194-233-139.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:10:40 too many deps for a soap lib? 04:10:42 Good morning! 04:11:31 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.92.160.133] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:11:46 fwiw, all of them are built in to my hacking image, due to their indispensibl(ness|nity|ation) 04:11:58 hey beach 04:15:57 -!- woodworks [~woodworks@54.st.louis-141-143rs.mo.dial-access.att.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:16:48 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:20:08 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441042.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:21:17 fusss: I could see cl-fad and xml-emitter being superfluous, but other than that, I don't think so 04:24:04 nyef: redshank does the trick, thanks 04:28:11 ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 04:28:34 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633430.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 04:31:00 for cl-fad, we're just using file-exists-p 04:31:47 *p_l* notes high regional alexa ranking for SBCL.org... for japan. 04:31:58 -!- hearit [~asdd@201.255.83.135] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:32:18 which itself will be superflous if we refused to take wsdl paths and required URIs for all paths (i.e "file:///.." instead of #p"/..") 04:33:17 heh 04:36:40 API question; should I have (ENABLE-OPAQUE-3D ) ) ? 04:37:01 -!- saikat [~saikat@99.13.242.166] has quit [Quit: saikat] 04:37:07 <_3b`> if you have the query, setf should work on it 04:37:34 _3b`: That's what I was thinking. 04:37:56 <_3b`> though if you have a lot of things like that, (enable :opaque-3d ...) might be nicer 04:40:46 _3b`: I don't know if I like the absence of :opaque-3d to imply that that the node should not be included in the opaque rendering pass. 04:41:22 balooga: setf is better than custom setters 04:41:25 _3b`: I think I prefer having it explicitely stated in the code. 04:44:02 nostoi [~nostoi@9.Red-79-152-63.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 04:49:02 phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 04:49:09 I like setf 04:51:08 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:53:36 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@64.134.149.41] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 05:04:42 -!- parolang` [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:06:09 notsonerdysunny [~chatzilla@121.243.182.185] has joined #lisp 05:07:23 hello is there a way to use generic functions where the methods are specialized by means of a more suffosticated specialization condition apart from the (eql val) or a specific type? 05:08:18 notsonerdysunny: http://www.doc.gold.ac.uk/~mas01cr/papers/els2008/paper.pdf 05:08:38 saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:08:43 in short: maybe in SBCL 05:11:39 thanks gonzojive .. but you have not used it ...? 05:12:03 nope, but Krystof wrote that paper so he might be able to tell you more 05:13:25 merl15__ [~merl@188-22-173-142.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 05:14:01 freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 05:18:34 what about filtered methods? 05:18:51 it's MOP-based 05:19:29 http://common-lisp.net/project/closer/filtered.html 05:23:54 -!- merl15__ [~merl@188-22-173-142.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:25:22 ost` [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 05:25:22 -!- ost [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:26:05 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-9-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 05:29:37 Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-198-226.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:30:47 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@9.Red-79-152-63.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 05:35:28 p_l: can I install this using clbuild ? 05:36:40 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 05:37:29 -!- notsonerdysunny [~chatzilla@121.243.182.185] has left #lisp 05:38:45 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0177-82-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:44:43 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-93-34.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:47:36 -!- saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:48:41 saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:49:56 PurplePanda [~pyro@CPE-124-190-112-220.nxwn1.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 05:50:21 lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-107-225.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 05:51:17 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 05:51:23 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 05:53:42 what is the backquote pattern for a do-like macro that bounds a user supplied symbol? 05:54:07 notsonerdysunny [~chatzilla@121.243.182.185] has joined #lisp 05:54:11 (defmacro dotimes (var from step) (let ((,var (gensym)) ..)? 05:58:03 -!- saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: saikat] 05:58:26 saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:58:34 notsonerdysunny: not by default, but it should be easy to add 05:59:01 ASau` [~user@77.246.231.37] has joined #lisp 05:59:05 notsonerdysunny: darcs repo: http://common-lisp.net/project/closer/repos/filtered-functions/ 05:59:31 hmmm, macro argument capture seems to be the magic trick 06:00:18 zoe [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:00:35 (defmacro do-times ((var start end) &body body) `(dotimes (,var ,start ,end) ,@body))) 06:01:05 gensym-nazis, feel free to point out any errors 06:02:08 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.72.79] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:04:02 thanks p_l 06:04:29 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 06:05:19 nowhereman [~pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 06:05:47 *p_l* goes back to his musings about stuffing antimatter into 20mm AP rounds 06:05:56 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:05:56 It's all for a novel, I swear! 06:06:44 p_l: arms are for hugging 06:06:55 also, liquor store stick ups 06:08:01 fusss: yeah, but I had this beautiful scene of American tanks&APCs being picked out by snipers defending a city... 06:09:09 <_3b`> would you really need the AP part if you have enough antimatter to do anything? 06:09:15 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 06:09:35 _3b`: piercing through outer layer of armor, especially given modern reactive armor. 06:10:05 after it goes in, 0.1*10^-4 g of antimatter takes care of the rest :) 06:10:32 *_3b`* votes just use more antimatter :p 06:10:52 _3b`: safety reasons against it. 06:11:13 you don't want to use a strategic weapon inside a tight city defense combat. 06:12:11 though I do have a storyline waiting that has large scale WMD carpet bombardment as a finale 06:12:44 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:13:18 it has a rather bittersweet ending planned. 06:14:48 with a twist in "history is written by the victorious" area. Namely, the victorious write themselves off as murderers outside forgiveness. 06:15:29 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 06:16:47 setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:18:30 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:20:57 grrrrr 06:21:10 package system is messing with my callbacks 06:21:54 how do i force a macro to use variables captured in the call site, instead of its definition site? 06:22:05 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.234] has joined #lisp 06:22:16 actually, that's not the real problem 06:22:55 assume a library with a package LIB and client code with package CLIENT 06:23:35 -!- lat_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 06:23:51 I have lib:with-foo being using by the client, as (lib:with-foo (foo ..)) 06:23:54 Harag [~Harag@iburst-41-213-90-56.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:24:12 where i am expecting the argument foo to be CLIENT::FOO 06:25:31 dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:25:34 I am getting an error that says "generic function GET-FOO-SLOT can not be with argument LIB::FOO 06:25:57 i thought the defmacro form would expand in the client site and capture the foo in client package 06:26:12 not retroactively intern client symbols in its own package 06:26:37 <_3b`> sounds like your macro is broken (or your packages) 06:26:50 <_3b`> (possibly also your mental model of macros) 06:26:58 fwiw, CLIENT uses package LIB 06:27:52 _3b`: my mental model of everything is broken, but i am operating at the rate of trillion monkeys with keyboards per second. 06:27:54 <_3b`> (eq 'client::foo 'lib::foo) ? 06:28:22 *_3b`* assumes not, since then the method would probably just expect that 06:28:31 NIL 06:28:41 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-89-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:28:48 <_3b`> or maybe you quote too much, and pass a symbol where th emethod expects the value of a variable with that name? 06:29:28 <_3b`> though i guess that isn't quite right either, since then it would be a symbol from teh correct package 06:29:45 *_3b`* falss back to 'the macro is broken' :p 06:29:46 will restart lisp and start a fresh 06:30:24 i really should read onlisp past the first 5 chapters 06:32:47 all i want is to pass LIB a symbol table. a hash of strings keys and function values. 06:33:19 when library code encounters a given key, it _funcalls_ the value function in the symtab 06:33:30 nostoi [~nostoi@9.Red-79-152-63.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 06:34:12 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 06:34:28 my symbol tables is created as (alist-hash-table '(("key" #'parse-key) ("key2" #'parse-key2)) :test #'equal) 06:34:44 i.e. i am passing the functions by value 06:34:57 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:35:49 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:40:43 <_3b`> fusss: sure you didn't want ("key" . #'...) ? 06:41:08 jsoft [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 06:41:24 _3b`: sorry, mistyped in IRC 06:41:39 trying to factor things out 06:43:31 _3b`: i had two functions by the same name :-S 06:45:31 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:45:41 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:45:52 -!- _macro [~macro@c-67-188-1-34.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:48:52 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@9.Red-79-152-63.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 06:51:02 winnage! \o/ 06:52:05 free_thinker [~willijar@134.151.144.246] has joined #lisp 06:52:11 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:55:37 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-144-13-93.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:56:55 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:57:21 good morning 06:57:36 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-89-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:59:15 hello mvilleneuve 06:59:47 mvilleneuve: This morning, I implemented a read algorithm that also maintains the source position of each expression read. 07:01:30 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-197-195.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 07:01:30 beach: example use case that caused this development? 07:02:22 freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 07:02:25 p_l: I would like to write a compiler that can give excellent compile-time and runtime error messages in terms of source position. 07:03:32 ah 07:05:41 -!- zoe [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:06:00 p_l: While the implementation of such a reader is straightforward, it took some thinking to have it remain compliant. 07:06:22 beach: READ could return a secondary value? 07:06:32 (good morning :) 07:06:37 Hello frodef! 07:06:54 frodef: That is not allowed, so I wrote another entry point which does exactly that. 07:07:13 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 07:11:23 beach: I agree it's not strictly allowed.. but at the same time, isn't this one of the best reasons for having multiple-values in the language? 07:11:36 huangjs [~user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has joined #lisp 07:11:59 ..and, similarly, don't many implementation have extra &key arguments to many operators, like compile-file etc? 07:12:02 frodef: Yes, I don't understand why that rule exists. 07:12:22 frodef: That might be explicitly allowed, though! 07:12:25 because multiple-value-call exists 07:12:35 attila_lendvai [~ati@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 07:12:50 Krystof: right, that is a problem. 07:12:51 Krystof: Good point! 07:14:15 I wrote some macrology once to refer to m-vs by name.. 07:14:35 ..still not sure if it was a good idea or not :) 07:15:14 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has joined #lisp 07:15:16 bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has joined #lisp 07:15:34 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:16:19 -!- benny [~benny@i577A183A.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:16:30 frodef: So for instance, it is explicitly allowed to add arguments to trace and untrace. 07:17:21 benny [~benny@i577A1F7C.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 07:17:32 beach: great! did you put it in the SICL repository yet? 07:17:51 mvilleneuve: Only in my private one. Hold on... 07:17:58 what's the SICL repository? 07:18:29 mvilleneuve: 07:18:41 pinterface [~pinterfac@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has joined #lisp 07:19:40 frodef: SICL is the preliminary name of this project. And the GIT repository is in http://dept-info.labri.fr/~strandh/SICL/SICL.git 07:20:34 beach: got it, thanks 07:23:15 enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-252-170-201.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:23:29 beach: ok, thanks.. and "this project" being the compiler you mentioned to p_l? 07:24:44 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:24:51 frodef: Yes. Though, the main idea is to implement as large a part of the language as possible in a totally portable way, so that other implementations can choose to just incoroporate bricks of it in their own implementation. That way, even if I never finish the project, it will have useful parts. 07:25:31 *_3b`* needs to implement some CLOS so i can use more of sicl 07:25:38 frodef: As incentive for that, I want to produce excellent error messages from things like condition reporters and macro expanders. 07:26:39 _3b`: Good idea! How far along are you? 07:26:52 <_3b`> at implementing clos? not at all :/ 07:27:00 what about the rest? 07:27:38 jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 07:28:08 minion: tell me about sicl 07:28:08 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``sicl''. 07:28:09 <_3b`> hard to say... i have enough for me to use it, but it is missing some pretty major features, like symbols and such :) 07:30:19 _3b`: And remind me what the ultimate goal is? 07:30:29 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:30:44 <_3b`> writing silly flash games without using actionscript :p 07:31:14 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 07:31:47 <_3b`> aside from that i'd like it to be as close to CL as possible without losing performance (so probably native math stuff instead of bignums, stuff like that) 07:32:43 -!- nunb [~nundan@59.178.220.33] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:33:02 I see, yes. 07:35:48 -!- pinterface [~pinterfac@knvl-static-09-0024.dsl.iowatelecom.net] has left #lisp 07:39:10 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:41:07 beach: a clean room approach like SICL might also help in work towards better delivery 07:41:07 -!- ost` [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:41:22 ost` [~user@217.198.9.4] has joined #lisp 07:41:39 p_l: How so? 07:41:57 beach: better decoupling of components 07:42:08 p_l: Yes, definitely. 07:43:25 so, instead of gradual development, the CLOS implementation could be built from scratch around full MOP with extra stuff like sealed classes, methods etc. 07:44:18 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:44:24 p_l: For CLOS, threre are also some fairly recent articles about efficient implementation of multiple dispatch that might be interesting to have a look at. 07:45:58 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:46:32 beach: well, I was just considering a still rather common case of an app that might not need compiler, but which could do well with preselected method call chains optimized down to simple PC-relative calls and stuff like that :) 07:47:02 wvdschel [~wim@78-20-14-180.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 07:48:36 I would have to take your word for it, i.e. that such apps are common. 07:51:02 beach: well, quite common. Various other languages don't have such built-in compiler yet still manage to get great results, and the possibility of choosing whether various elements are in or not would be great. Also, compiler tends to be big part of CL runtime 07:51:23 Oh, I see. Sure. 07:51:59 frodef: Another thing I would like to see is a system that allows for internationalization, while preserving compliance as much as possible. 07:53:11 beach: internationalization of the lisp as such? 07:53:29 frodef: Error messages, docstrings, that kind of stuff. 07:53:34 beach: so, basically I was thinking even of cleaning a cold core (i.e. after dumping) 07:54:13 p_l: Again, I am not following. Perhaps I am too tired today. 07:55:11 (AVEC-FICHIER-OUVERT ..) :) 07:55:23 frodef: Er, no! :) 07:55:26 Soulman [~kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 07:56:08 beach: but why? Seems to me that english serves quite well as the lingua franca of programming. 07:57:32 frodef: Well, it would be a way of making sure that things like error messages are not hardwired in the code. Plus, there are still many people around to whom English represents an obstacle. My students definitely don't understand Lisp error messages. 07:58:01 in bordeaux? 07:58:05 Indeed. 07:58:18 frodef: Which tells me that things might be a lot worse elsewhere. 07:58:33 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 07:58:53 So they don't read the error messages, and then spend lots of time trying to figure out simple problems. 07:58:55 mrSpec [~Spec@chello089075032022.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 07:58:58 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@chello089075032022.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 07:58:58 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 08:00:01 If they are going to be professional programmers in any sense, I believe reasonable english skills is a necessity. 08:00:23 frodef: erm... WITH-OPEN-FILE? 08:01:07 frodef: It is not the English per se. It is the combination of somewhat weak English skills and error messages that might refer to things they don't master. Removing one of the two might encourage them to dig further. 08:01:16 p_l: I'm not saying my french is "reasonable" :) 08:01:32 beach: I don't know in reality... but I often heard (and not from native speakers of english), that "average" french tend to be rather hostile to usage of english... 08:01:54 p_l: Don't believe all you hear. 08:02:00 beach: this would cause an extra strain in "grokking" it. 08:03:00 p_l: It would, but it isn't true. 08:03:02 beach: I take that with a grain of salt, mind you, it was mostly from people who were there as turists, and the average kind of turist. So the people they met might tend to be snobbish towards tourists :) 08:03:42 p_l: It might have been a bit more true a few decades ago, but definitely no longer. 08:04:09 nite all 08:04:11 -!- fusss [~kumi@li63-187.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:04:49 anyway, regarding language barrier, I recommend a good dictionary designed for the terms in use (maybe a collaborative one?) with editor support for lookup (and it might as well be hooked into describe/documentation etc. so that it would generate links to it. 08:04:53 ) 08:06:42 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:07:41 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 08:07:44 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.73.71] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:12:00 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-252-170-201.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 08:14:32 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 08:20:07 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 08:20:44 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-idqnyqgyqqywhbzt] has joined #lisp 08:21:03 a little pcl trivia: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NO0cvqT1tAE :) 08:23:43 -!- plan9 [~stian@arachnotron.sletner.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:24:45 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:25:55 levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 08:25:59 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7546c6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:28:25 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@200.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:30:24 I seem unable to watch youtube movies on my 64-bit Ubuntu installations. I guess some plugin is missing, but I don't know which one. 08:32:17 beach: aptitude install flashplugin-nonfree 08:33:01 won't work if your installations are rms-compliant, probably 08:34:28 I did that, and I think I have done it in the past, but it still doesn't work. I get a totally black screen area. 08:34:38 beach: dunno about ubuntu-specific ways, but try getting nspluginwrapper and the 32bit flash. 08:34:56 more stable (unless you got FF 3.7, I guess) 08:35:52 Thanks, but that shall have to wait. 08:37:52 hlavaty [~user@77-22-100-58-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:40:38 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:40:48 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-40-75.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:41:11 *_3b`* uses the 64bit flash on 64 bit ubuntu 08:41:27 lnostdal [~lnostdal@200.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 08:41:42 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 08:49:46 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 08:51:22 rpg: are you here by chance? 08:53:35 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:53:47 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 09:02:27 adobe has a beta or some other prerelease 64-bit plugin 09:02:43 installed it no prob on Arch linux, Ubuntu doesn't have installer for it 09:03:58 -!- frodef [~frode@shevek.netfonds.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:04:58 freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 09:04:58 *p_l* used 64bit plugin for some time, switched to 32bit because he didn't want to fight FF trying to force it to connect through ndiswrapper. 09:08:21 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:08:25 -!- Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:08:50 Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 09:10:49 mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has joined #lisp 09:11:45 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:13:13 huangjs pasted "Cond-var bug?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97672 09:13:35 frodef [~frode@shevek.netfonds.no] has joined #lisp 09:14:07 anyone tells me if there's a bug in my program. 09:14:34 otherwise it seems like a SBCL bug. 09:15:44 -!- plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-14-247.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:17:25 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:18:04 nunb [~nundan@59.178.220.33] has joined #lisp 09:22:48 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 09:24:13 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has joined #lisp 09:25:32 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:27:45 -!- nunb [~nundan@59.178.220.33] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:27:46 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:28:18 -!- drwho_ [~drwho@c-71-225-11-30.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.] 09:29:05 -!- tltstc [~tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:30:34 echo-area [~zhujun@114.251.86.0] has joined #lisp 09:31:26 -!- smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:32:10 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:32:27 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 09:32:37 smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:33:02 -!- Anarch [~olaf@c-67-171-37-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: WILL TROLL FOR FOOD] 09:33:04 *attila_lendvai* pokes tcr, the new sbcl concurrency expert 09:33:23 huangjs: why do you think it's a bug? 09:33:36 echo-area pasted "require and asdf in eval-when" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97673 09:33:54 the condition-notify is definitively wrong, it may make more sense with a condition-broadcast the way you wrote it 09:34:06 but then, what are you actually trying to accomplish? 09:34:09 Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has joined #lisp 09:34:53 hello, I got the error "package "ASDF" not found" in sbcl, either when (load "y.lisp") or when (compile-file "y.lisp"). Am I missing something? Thanks 09:35:30 (for the code, please see the above link) 09:35:40 Yes, you are 09:36:11 you have to put the (require 'asdf) in its own eval-when 09:37:23 tcr: why? And after that the error changes, to "package "CL-PPCRE" not found", but it can be loaded in the repl 09:37:28 The recommended way to do what you're trying to do is to write an .asd file for your project, which depends on cl-ppcre and getopt; then write a file package.lisp which contains a defpackage definition in which you use (:import-from :cl-ppcre #:split) 09:37:32 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:38:00 echo-area: The whole body of your EVAL-WHEN is tried to be READ in, but at that time the REQUIRE wasn't executed yet, so the reader will barf on the asdf:operate symbol 09:38:10 does that make sense to you? 09:38:34 yes, that explains the first error very well. Thanks 09:38:48 ok :-) 09:39:16 tcr: I see your recommendation. But how can I resolve the second error? 09:39:38 (for I want to understand the system better :) 09:39:46 mads- [~mads@pdpc/supporter/active/mads-] has joined #lisp 09:39:49 Can you restate the second problem after you put the require in its own eval-when? 09:39:59 ah right it's the same issue 09:40:14 the reader will see cl-ppcre:split before the asdf:operate has loaded in cl-ppcre's code 09:40:40 so you'd need three eval-whens... at that point, eek 09:41:18 tcr: oh I see. I thought the error happened in asdf:load-op 09:41:36 and you also ought to put :load-toplevel to those eval-whens 09:43:37 tcr: Another question: CLHS says "For non-top level eval-when forms, :execute specifies that...", does this imply :execute is only for non-top level eval-when forms? 09:44:14 it is also used when you LOAD in a source file directly 09:44:22 (and do not go over a fasl file) 09:45:18 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-197-195.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: night] 09:45:32 so :execute does not work only for non-top level forms. Thank you! 09:46:31 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 09:50:35 gozek [~quassel@85.52.166.111] has joined #lisp 09:52:41 tcr: hi, since I can't find a problem in my code. XD 09:53:06 tcr: why the notify is wrong? 09:53:40 tcr: what I want to do is to synchronize the threads 09:54:37 tcr: there's only one thread listening on the cond-var, so notify should be ok right? 09:55:04 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 09:56:34 -!- dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:56:52 tcr: hmm.. broadcast does work, but i have no idea why notify fails. There's only 1 waiting thread. 09:57:14 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:57:21 tcr: and broadcast is much slower. 09:58:21 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 09:59:02 -!- debiandebian [~chatzilla@ntszok008047.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:02:02 afa [~afa@131.152.178.51] has joined #lisp 10:03:10 tcr: hmm... I think I should have check the exit condition before doing a cond_wait. 10:03:42 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:10:53 tcr: problem solved, thanks anyway. 10:11:12 huangjs: what was the problem? 10:11:24 jdz: check exit condition before do wait 10:11:40 huangjs: i was just going to point you to the 3rd point in the "important stuff to be aware of" list 10:11:50 jdz: what's that? 10:11:59 "a process may return from condition-wait in several circumstances: it is not guaranteed that the underlying condition has become true. You must check that the resource is ready for whatever you want to do to it." 10:12:23 jdz: ah, i see 10:12:28 jdz: thanks. so double check 10:12:56 jdz: hmm... doesn't seems to be necessary, at least in my program. 10:14:30 -!- mads- [~mads@pdpc/supporter/active/mads-] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:16:01 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 10:21:15 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 10:35:59 huangjs: you have 8 notifications, for 8 threads, that's right, but 7 of the notification are performed when *countdown* may be > 0 10:36:16 so not each notification will actually get a waiter out of its loop 10:36:51 to synchronize a fixed number of threads, I'd suggest to use the barriers in http://common-lisp.net/~trittweiler/darcs/synchronization-tools/ 10:36:58 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:37:23 semaphores may be usable, too, in case you can divide between waiters and wakers 10:37:27 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 10:38:50 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has joined #lisp 10:46:34 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 10:47:13 dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:52:49 tcr: I know, that's why each wakeup you need to check the exit condition. 10:53:36 tcr: and the status (countdown) are maintained by the wakers since the wakeup is not queued. is that what you meant? 10:53:47 tcr: I'll check your code. :) 10:55:03 Does anybody know how to make the closure allocated on the stack which is passed to sb-thread:make-thread or sb-thread:interrupt-thread ? 10:56:03 i mean on the target thread's stack. 10:57:30 hello 10:58:34 Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 11:02:55 nunb [~nundan@59.178.219.198] has joined #lisp 11:04:38 hello fe[nl]ix 11:04:54 hi beach 11:05:36 actually 11:05:41 hej beach :) 11:06:05 Learning Swedish? 11:06:23 -!- nunb [~nundan@59.178.219.198] has quit [Client Quit] 11:06:29 not yet 11:06:36 but I'm in Stockholm ATM 11:06:48 Ah, I see! Doing what? 11:07:31 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0177-82-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 11:07:53 a sort of a work weekend 11:08:03 I'm leaving in about two hours 11:08:32 How is the weather? 11:09:32 rather nice 11:12:09 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0177-82-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:12:44 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:15:40 -!- saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: saikat] 11:18:34 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 11:19:24 potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f666fba-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 11:23:45 bytecolor [~user@adsl-70-136-248-12.dsl.scrm01.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 11:28:03 -!- huangjs [~user@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:34:16 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.18.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:37:00 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:38:06 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-40-75.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:41:13 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:41:40 [mark] [~mark@unaffiliated/mark/x-957811] has joined #lisp 11:43:12 [[mark]] [~mark@unaffiliated/mark/x-957811] has joined #lisp 11:44:20 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7546c6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:44:51 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7546c6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 11:46:49 -!- [mark] [~mark@unaffiliated/mark/x-957811] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:47:06 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 11:51:06 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 11:52:13 -!- Krystof [~csr21@158.223.51.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:52:30 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.18.242] has joined #lisp 11:53:11 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:54:45 abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has joined #lisp 11:55:11 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:58:15 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:58:38 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 12:02:29 Dot [~rjorge@bl14-226-115.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 12:02:40 hey there 12:02:46 what is lisp good for? 12:03:26 it is a general-purpose language 12:04:43 where is that quote about not assuming that lisp is only useful for... ? 12:06:43 p_l: it's pitman's originally. it hink it appeared in his slashdot interview. 12:07:27 i read somewhere that the main focus of lisp is AI 12:07:40 but i was to sceptical about that 12:08:13 Dot: It was, 30 years ago 12:08:40 40 years ago, there was only AI and numerical processing :D 12:08:47 Yuuhi [benni@p5483ACC2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:08:56 ah, kk 12:09:07 can't help it when Turing Machine model was started through AI research. 12:09:16 i'm a perl hacker and i'm trying to find complementing technologies :P 12:09:25 minion: before? 12:09:25 before: Before you start learning Lisp and fixing all the wrongs in it, read this: http://abhishek.geek.nz/docs/lisp-answers/ . It will save you, and us, much frustration 12:10:51 ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 12:11:00 -!- echo-area [~zhujun@114.251.86.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:11:58 Dot: Sure. Get a copy of Practical Common Lisp, use clbuild to download & install Lisp stuff (better don't use your distribution stuff), and come here for questions but be sure to do your homework :-) 12:12:26 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:21b:63ff:fe96:e1ff] has joined #lisp 12:12:35 kk 12:12:58 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:13:52 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-64-199-184.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:14:49 cmm [~cmm@109.64.199.184] has joined #lisp 12:16:15 I once found someones dissertation on the history of lisp/ai through the 80's and early 90's. All the start-up, failures, astronomical price tags for the software/hardware, etc. A good read. I read it completely on line and didn't bookmark it :( 12:16:47 it's on dreamsongs.com 12:17:24 hopl2-uncut.pdf 12:18:16 howdy stassats` 12:18:34 tcr: hi 12:19:25 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 12:19:27 bytecolor: how's that for service? 12:20:15 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:21:01 Dot: my experience coming from perl to CL is that i no longer use Perl for much of anything when I have a choice. YMMV. 12:21:54 Yup, it's a disruptive technology not a complementing one :-) 12:23:41 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:26:02 i also noticed that i no longer use regexps for everything, as opposed to when i was using perl 12:28:55 commercially common lisp is used? 12:29:14 it is 12:29:17 Dot: Yes. Why do you ask? 12:29:42 hrm, I don't think the one I read was by either of those guys though. Bookmarked though ;) 12:29:51 my experience trying to come to CL is that it's not only disruptive, but often requires you to rebuild the universe from scratch before getting things done ;) 12:30:07 beach: because i want to enter in the programming market 12:30:31 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:30:31 Dot: Oh, don't base a future job on Lisp. 12:30:36 Dot: I don't think Lisp will directly and simply make you more attractive to potential employers. 12:30:44 mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-bzpgkfzyjyvbbpxn] has joined #lisp 12:30:57 :\ capitalism sucks 12:31:27 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-idqnyqgyqqywhbzt] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:31:35 Dot: At least the software industry does. You will likely become a better programmer if you know Lisp in addition to other languages, but it will be hard to find a company that appreciates that. 12:31:38 koollman: I think it's got a lot better nowadays 12:31:40 Dot: however, you might have success in bespoke market or if you started your own company. Web services/applications don't really care about the language as much as about the interface. 12:32:11 tcr: I'm sure it was worse before. I don't think it's 'a lot better' right now ;) 12:32:12 merl15__ [~merl@188-22-166-18.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 12:32:44 koollman: it depends on your area of interest. 12:32:57 -!- bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:33:07 that's probably true... but just imagine a world without slime, when sbcl was cmucl and so on :-) 12:33:13 my area of interest is either system admin or web dev 12:33:16 koollman: i've been really pleased with the number of pre-build libraries for doing the things i need 12:33:20 tcr: I would rather not try to imagine this ;) 12:33:21 pre-built, rather. 12:33:35 Xach: what kind of things do you do, then ? 12:33:46 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:33:58 koollman: interact with web services like flickr and amazon 12:34:35 hmm. I could do that. it's a regular need for me. And what libs do you use ? 12:34:49 (I'm trying to trick myself in learning more CL again ;) ) 12:34:52 Dot: i think you should think twice about lisp if you gonna develop for other customers. but for your own (web) service, it may very well suit perfectly. :) 12:35:15 koollman: drakma, cxml, ironclad, zs3 12:35:31 koollman: hunchentoot also 12:35:48 for now i want to *cofbeexploredcof* work to others 12:35:52 koollman: it's mostly for http://wigflip.com/ 12:37:25 Dot: What is that supposed to mean? 12:37:37 i couldn't do anything if there wasn't drakma, chtml/cxml, etc. 12:37:48 Xach: right. I might start playing with these libs. Thanks :) 12:37:52 for now i need to work with a boss, not by myself 12:38:01 no cash to own adventures for now 12:38:04 *for 12:38:11 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 12:39:00 Dot: Your best plan is then to 1. Get hired, 2. Learn Lisp one day per week. 3. Either get a raise or start your own company. 12:39:31 but it's more adventurous when you have no cash 12:39:44 stassats`: don't make it sound enticing... 12:39:47 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 12:39:55 and more bankrupcy-prone :P 12:40:54 another option is being a good employer and start to change the company from inside >:) 12:41:30 employee? 12:42:03 heh, my mispelling, sorry 12:42:34 -!- cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:43:01 While that strategy *might* work, it could be a very frustrating experience, unless you do it the right way. 12:43:36 The wrong way is trying to convince your boss that you have better solutions so that the boss will change the way it is done for the better. 12:43:51 making changes from the inside are hard. especially if you are part of an already existing team with code base... and besides, for most web shops it is /not/ about technology as such, it is all about providing a service and interfacing to existing system for the most part. 12:43:59 That usually won't work because the boss is more concerned about his/her job, so won't take that risk. 12:44:30 A much better way is to not ask permission and change things anyway, perhaps together with a few friends that you can trust. 12:45:18 -!- Dot [~rjorge@bl14-226-115.dsl.telepac.pt] has left #lisp 12:46:42 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:48:43 It can also help to make a rapid prototype that works really well and can simply be used directly. 12:49:16 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:50:19 longkid [~longkid@113.22.147.35] has joined #lisp 12:51:25 Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 12:51:45 *Xach* recently got to use a Lisp program to analyze a giant config file at work because it was written very quickly and it can be customized for many different kinds of reports 12:52:12 yeah, that is probably the best way to get lisp inside... it has also saved my ass a few times. :) 12:56:07 One near-miss was when I was assigned to research what programs were available to fill out some telecom PDF order forms from data in our database. In the few days I had to do just the research, I had a working CL-PDF-based prototype of a solution. 12:56:11 tcr: therep? 12:56:18 Unfortunately, the project was canceled. 12:56:38 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:58:06 skeledrew [~skeledrew@0177-82-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 12:58:44 bytecolor pasted "repaint scrambles the image" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97678 12:59:45 I got cl-opengl installed. Trying to port my earlier texture example over. 13:00:38 rpg: hi 13:00:50 _3b`: snoozing? 13:00:53 tcr: You asked about something last night? 13:01:48 <_3b`> bytecolor: looking at the code 13:02:05 rpg: Yes. I have a system which split into a few systems again. I wonder how if there's any kludgy way to write the main.asd such that the system is recompiled if one of the subsystem changes. 13:02:27 some hack 13:02:31 sellout [~greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:02:33 _3b`: cool 13:02:47 tcr: Let me think about this --- it's something we'd like, too. 13:03:24 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 13:03:39 The primary problem is that "check upstream for dependency change" is not part of the ASDF API, and there's no real way to provide your own methods for tailoring that behavior. 13:04:27 I know shite about clos. More reading to do... 13:05:38 I was actually trying to steer clear of clos. CL sans clos is more than enough to keep one busy ;) 13:05:45 tcr: some pondering suggests that this would be very hard to do... Here's a vague idea: (1) add a new, bogus component to all of your systems, that always appears as the first of the components. 13:06:21 Then you'd have to add a special OPERATION-DONE-P on that bogus component, that checks to see whether any of the depended-on systems have changed. 13:06:24 bytecolor: CL with only LAMBDA is more than enough 13:06:48 <_3b`> bytecolor: works here, dunno what's wrong with it 13:06:52 aye! 13:07:14 _3b`: awwww, ok thanks for looking at it. must be my driver or some such. 13:07:41 <_3b`> might try doublebuffering, singlebuffer might be less well tested 13:07:46 (2) You'd need to write that "any of the depended-on systems have changed" code yourself (disappointingly enough). You'd have to grovel each depended-on system and check /it's/ operation-done-p. 13:07:53 _3b`: ok 13:07:58 -!- ost` [~user@217.198.9.4] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:08:14 tcr: Question: would it be acceptable to have this only work for compile-op ? That's the case where it really matters, right? 13:08:38 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:08:49 _3b`: yep, fixed it 13:09:20 changed flush to swap-buffers as well 13:09:28 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 13:09:41 rpg: I'm afraid that's too complicated already, I'll keep on doing my delete-fasls business :-) 13:10:21 _3b`: so, is there something in cl-opengl to allow me to create that texture array with make-array, then send it directly to cl-opengl ? 13:10:51 <_3b`> gl:tex-image-2d? 13:11:15 tcr: I'm afraid so. Getting it right is harder than you might think. I just sent Fare an email about this. OPERATION-DONE-P doesn't do what you think it does... 13:11:33 _3b`: it will accept a lisp array? 13:11:35 tcr: and the SYSTEM and MODULE objects don't model what you think they do! 13:11:50 <_3b`> bytecolor: i think so 13:12:34 tcr: If I had the time, I would be interested in writing a system subclass that could do this, but unfort it's reviewing season and I'm buried under papers I must read. 13:12:35 ok, I'll play around with it more. Nice job on the lispification of the api ;) 13:13:13 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:13:51 -!- mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-bzpgkfzyjyvbbpxn] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:17:00 Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 13:18:09 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 13:18:29 davertron [~Dave@74-92-46-229-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:18:48 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:18:54 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 13:19:49 johnthesavage [~stoic@dhcp192-077.wireless.buffalo.edu] has joined #lisp 13:20:09 -!- Soulman__ [~kae@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:20:16 -!- randa [~randa@94.99.50.84.sta.estpak.ee] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:20:21 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7546c6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:20:32 konr1 [~konrad@201.82.134.220] has joined #lisp 13:20:36 3b annotated #97678 "using lisp array" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97678#1 13:20:43 <_3b`> bytecolor: ^ 13:20:56 -!- konr [~konrad@201.82.134.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:21:31 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Client Quit] 13:22:04 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 13:22:09 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 13:24:32 <_3b`> bytecolor: also, i'd probably replace (if (zerop (logand i #x8)) 1 0) with (ldb (byte 1 3) i), and same for j 13:24:40 _3b`: Awsome. That's what I'm talking about. I wrote a small vector/matrix lib with a matrix->gl-array. Now I can do away with all that jazz. 13:25:03 _3b`: nod, I knew that translation to lisp was a bit wonky 13:25:53 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:25:54 _3b`: that puzzled me. doesn't that flip the resulting bit? 13:26:05 <_3b`> or maybe just set c to (if (logbitp 3 (logxor i j)) 255 0) 13:26:31 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 13:26:31 <_3b`> Xach: ah, probably 13:26:47 Xach: it's a translation from the C code: ((((i&0x8)==0)^((j&0x8))==0))*255 13:27:06 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:27:11 bytecolor: the naming of the variable is pretty confusing. 13:27:14 *_3b`* didn't actually look that closely since it makes a checkerboard either way :) 13:27:18 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:27:19 bytecolor: you left out the ==0 :) 13:27:31 heh 13:27:37 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:27:59 I'm using cl-opengl and when trying a "(gl:read-pixels 0 0 1 1 :depth-component :float)" I'm getting "OpenGL signalled (1282 . INVALID-OPERATION) from READ-PIXELS."; any ideas? 13:28:21 randa [~randa@94.99.50.84.sta.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 13:28:38 -!- [[mark]] [~mark@unaffiliated/mark/x-957811] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:28:45 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-52.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 13:28:48 <_3b`> "GL_INVALID_OPERATION is generated if format is GL_DEPTH_COMPONENT 13:28:48 <_3b`> and there is no depth buffer. 13:28:54 <_3b`> maybe? 13:29:08 kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-52.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 13:30:02 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:30:02 <_3b`> or calling it between begin and end, if you use immediate mode 13:30:18 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:30:24 _3b`: i'm not calling between begin and end, so maybe it's the depth buffer piece... 13:30:47 _3b`: I'm a bit of an opengl n00b, so how do i know if I have the depth buffer set up correctly? 13:31:08 <_3b`> how did you create the window? 13:31:29 (defclass cube-window (glut:window) 13:31:29 () 13:31:30 (:default-initargs :width *width* :height *height* :title "cube.lisp" 13:31:31 :mode '(:double :rgba))) 13:31:39 mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-scaykauqnpqeuwbz] has joined #lisp 13:31:49 do i need to add something to the :mode arg? 13:31:53 <_3b`> add :depth 13:32:14 davazp [~user@147.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:18 nice, perfect, thanks 13:33:29 now, to get the value returned by "read-pixels"... 13:34:50 *_3b`* should probably make that return a typed array at some point 13:35:09 what does it return? 13:35:41 <_3b`> a simple-vector apparently 13:36:20 ah, yep 13:36:22 hmmm 13:36:47 <_3b`> shouldn't matter too much, though a typed array could be a bit more efficient 13:39:14 yeah, alright, great, I'm humming along again, thanks again for your help _3b`, and great job on cl-opengl, I'm just learning CL right now and opengl at the same time and it's a lot of fun :) 13:40:08 -!- skeledrew [~skeledrew@0177-82-27-72-DYNAMIC-dsl.cwjamaica.com] has left #lisp 13:43:20 rrice [~rrice@adsl-69-221-169-136.dsl.akrnoh.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 13:43:20 -!- konr1 [~konrad@201.82.134.220] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:43:31 for postmodern users: "Database error 23502: null value in column "date" violates not-null constrain"t do that ring a bell of what might be wrong? 13:43:34 konr [~konrad@201.82.134.220] has joined #lisp 13:43:58 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 13:44:03 hypno: yes. 13:44:27 hypno: in the simplest case you omitted a column that must be specified. 13:44:51 Xach: even tho i explicitly gives it a date (so it should not be null) i still get that... 13:45:16 hypno: what does your query and table specification look like? 13:46:30 Xach: http://195.43.248.109/~hypno/pg.lisp 13:47:26 G0SUB [~ghoseb@unaffiliated/g0sub] has joined #lisp 13:47:28 Xach: (postmodern:with-connection *db* (postmodern:insert-dao (make-instance 'news :date "jjJ" :topic "jjj" :content "dsadsa")))) 13:48:11 hypno: what kind of query does that generate? 13:50:35 -!- notsonerdysunny [~chatzilla@121.243.182.185] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:51:46 -!- G0SUB [~ghoseb@unaffiliated/g0sub] has quit [Client Quit] 13:52:10 -!- johnthesavage [~stoic@dhcp192-077.wireless.buffalo.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:52:36 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 13:53:32 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:54:11 -!- longkid [~longkid@113.22.147.35] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:54:18 Xach: you mean the complete SQL query or? 13:54:39 -!- jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit [Quit: Boot me gently] 13:55:45 hypno: yes. 13:56:55 fisxoj [~fisxoj@80.153.54.203] has joined #lisp 13:57:20 Xach: ok, i'm trying to figure that one out. 13:58:56 is there a "trace sql" option? 13:59:13 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:59:29 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 13:59:50 Xach: you can get the sql expression if you construct the queries. but INSERT-DAO is bultin i think. 13:59:55 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:00:06 Xach: however, i should try with log_statement = "all" in postgres. that ought to give the queries. 14:00:31 hypno: oh, that's a good idea too. i thought postmodern had a flag something you could set to log even automatically constructed queries. 14:00:42 maybe i'm confusing it with clsql 14:01:56 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:02:33 Xach: i thought you were trying to "force" me to go manual hunting, heh. :) 14:04:21 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:05:17 levente_meszaros pasted "fyi, how perec would handle that" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97680 14:05:55 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:06:21 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:08:08 isomer`` [~isomer@CPE00226b8ab7f9-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 14:08:20 [mark] [~mark@unaffiliated/mark/x-957811] has joined #lisp 14:14:17 levente_meszaros: hmm. what sql thingy is in the backend? 14:15:24 hypno, hu.dwim.perec (persistent CLOS aka ORM) is built on top of hu.dwim.rdbms (somewhat portable SQL/RDBMS library) 14:15:25 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-gduyokhljnwkggnj] has left #lisp 14:15:53 i am using postgresql, but so far i would say that life is order of magnitude easier with just object prevalence. i am mostly interrested in the search engine of postgresql. 14:16:02 hu.dwim.rdbms currently it supports postgresql (with cl-postgresl) fully, oracle and sqlite (with CFFI) partially 14:16:39 hypno, the text search engine? 14:16:39 Xach: clsql definitely has that 14:16:56 levente_meszaros: yeah. 14:16:57 I remember having to add one to postmodern, though it may be the case that I just missed the one that was there 14:18:01 levente_meszaros: i just need a stupid search text search, really. i would be quite happy to go with pure object prevalence if there were some stable solution for that... 14:19:00 perec recently got rebuild-text-search-index and text-search-instances 14:19:34 that is using postgres pg_trgm and tsearch2 14:20:44 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:20:46 hhuu [~hhuu@opensuse/member/xwhu] has joined #lisp 14:20:50 hypno: did you see how the naggum text search works? 14:20:58 -!- hhuu [~hhuu@opensuse/member/xwhu] has left #lisp 14:21:14 hypno: it was a bit labor intensive but, because it fits the corpus pretty well, it's very very fast and all in memory. 14:22:36 Xach: yeah, that one is pretty cool. it is probably even more advanced than i need. is it a pure CL hack? 14:22:42 yeah 14:23:08 cool. 14:28:26 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 14:29:08 -!- free_thinker [~willijar@134.151.144.246] has left #lisp 14:29:29 Xach: hi 14:29:37 Xach: my emacs sidekick program is really coming along 14:29:39 hello dto 14:29:40 cool 14:29:59 a paperclip? 14:30:03 Xach: http://imagebin.ca/view/7miXaOV.html 14:30:26 it's a generic OO spreadsheet system and GUI framework, right now being used as a game editor, with cut and paste etc 14:30:49 it saves game maps to disk and loads them, etc, and i'm fleshing out the interface to act like Emacs 14:31:07 Xach: i was about to make another video 14:31:25 Xach: do you use a sql db for the archive? 14:32:08 milanj [~milan@212.200.217.13] has joined #lisp 14:32:09 hypno: no. 14:32:35 hypno: it's two files per article, one the original text, one light HTML markup. 14:32:55 the search indexes are derived from the text files. 14:33:34 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:33:35 mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has joined #lisp 14:34:11 Xach: i see. clever. :) 14:34:19 btw, i solved my problem. 14:35:23 how? 14:36:24 turns out it isn't very smart to specify :ACCESSOR :FOO :ACCESSOR FOO-OF, all of which is brutually honestly embarrsingly obvious in the code i pasted. :) 14:36:51 d'oh. sorry i didn't notice that. 14:37:22 carlocci [~nes@93.37.218.168] has joined #lisp 14:37:38 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 14:37:53 a rather subtle problem, making us all think that the problem is with postmodern or the sql-insert stuff, heh. 14:38:53 -!- isomer`` [~isomer@CPE00226b8ab7f9-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:39:11 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 14:39:36 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 14:42:59 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:43:25 is there a standard way to get the current compilation file and line as in C? 14:43:49 wormwood [~wormwood@pool-141-155-165-179.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:44:17 echo-area [herbert@222.130.203.90] has joined #lisp 14:44:30 dto: *load-file* and *compile-file*, but not for the line. 14:44:46 that's actually enough for what i want to do. 14:45:33 hi, how do I do coding conversion in sbcl? Like the equivalent of `encode' and `decode' in Perl. Thanks 14:45:46 Xach: i'm going to upload this video soon 14:46:20 echo-area: i use perl, but i'm not familiar with those functions. what do they do? 14:49:08 Xach: The function `decode' decodes a string into Perl's internal form, and the function `encode' does the reverse. With these functions, a string can be converted from one encoding to another. 14:49:12 tmh [~user@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 14:49:20 Greetings lispers 14:50:28 echo-area: sb-ext:string-to-octets and sb-ext:octets-to-string can do something like that. there are also portable libraries for the purpose. 14:50:58 hello tmh 14:51:21 Good evening beach. 14:51:26 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7546c6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 14:51:37 Xach: I'll read that, thank you! 14:52:15 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 14:54:11 marioxcc [~user@200.56.154.242] has joined #lisp 14:55:35 echo-area: out of curiosity, what kind of conversion are you doing? 14:55:50 -!- Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:57:31 -!- ASau` [~user@77.246.231.37] has quit [Quit: off] 14:57:41 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 14:59:35 -!- balooga [~00u4440@adsl-76-194-233-139.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:00:26 Xach: I need to read a UTF-8 encoded file, and write its contents (after manipulation) to a GBK encoded file. 15:00:26 -!- legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-9-236.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:01:00 echo-area: with sbcl, you would specify the external-format argument to open or with-open-file. 15:01:22 echo-area: in fact, i think that's how any unicode-aware CL would work. 15:01:24 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:01:29 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 15:01:36 unfortunately, there isn't uniform agreement on what the argument value should look like. 15:02:05 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 15:02:49 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-68-247.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 15:02:50 HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:03:33 Xach: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=F7MD70OM <---- ogv video, youtube up soon 15:03:35 in sbcl's case, :utf-8 and :gbk would suffice 15:03:51 Sergio` [~positron@a89-152-187-26.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 15:03:58 -!- Sergio` [~positron@a89-152-187-26.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Changing host] 15:03:58 Sergio` [~positron@unaffiliated/sergio/x-8197433] has joined #lisp 15:04:10 Xach: tried with that, but I got errors without coding conversion 15:04:34 echo-area: what kind of error did you get? 15:06:11 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:06:37 Xach: hmmm, I can't reproduce. Maybe I had something wrong 15:06:53 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:07:43 minion: its? 15:07:44 its: ITS was the Incompatible Time Sharing system developed at MIT to run on DEC PDP-6 and PDP-10 systems. http://www.cliki.net/its 15:08:01 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 15:10:10 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:12:18 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:12:37 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:13:52 _3b`: hey, any idea why a call to read-pixels would always return 0.0? I'm using a perspective projection, and printing my modelview matrix just before the call to unproject resul[1.0d0 0.0d0 0.0d0 0.0d0] 15:13:52 [0.0d0 1.0d0 0.0d0 0.0d0] 15:13:52 [0.0d0 0.0d0 1.0d0 -10.0d0] 15:13:52 [0.0d0 0.0d0 0.0d0 1.0d0]"ts in " 15:14:58 the -10.0d0 is from a call to glu:look-at 0 0 10 0 0 0 0 1 0 15:18:09 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 15:19:17 Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has joined #lisp 15:20:38 -!- rread [~rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:20:45 rread [~rread@nat/sun/x-ordrzyjfercozbfy] has joined #lisp 15:23:15 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:23:48 maybe you're reading the wrong buffer ? 15:24:12 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-89-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:25:13 I'm using "(gl:read-pixels x y 1 1 :depth-component :float)" 15:25:16 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:25:30 Does your buffer even -have- a depth component? 15:25:51 nyef: good question; how do i tell? 15:25:54 yep and did you enable depth testing ? 15:26:02 I have no idea? 15:26:17 I use :mode '(:double :rgba :depth) 15:26:19 http://pyopengl.sourceforge.net/documentation/manual/glGet.3G.xml 15:26:19 You're working with bits of opengl that I've never touched. 15:26:40 or rather http://www.opengl.org/sdk/docs/man/xhtml/glGet.xml 15:27:16 if you want to be sure (not all cards honor all requested features) 15:27:50 you may have to try multiple combinations for your opengl code to be portable on different gfx cards 15:27:58 billitch: well, i was getting a 1282 invalid operation before i set :depth, now i just get a 0.0 15:28:01 -!- mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-scaykauqnpqeuwbz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:28:24 billitch: not sure if that indicates that it's supported or not but 15:28:53 That probably indicates that it's supported, but maybe not populated? 15:29:33 you have to enable writing to the depth buffer and do depth testing 15:29:57 maybe this can help http://www.opengl.org/resources/faq/technical/depthbuffer.htm 15:30:25 you can do many different things with a depth buffer 15:30:46 much more than just rendering closest objects only 15:30:53 billitch: i'm probably just not enabling/clearing it like you said 15:31:15 billitch: i have no calls to gl_enable(gl_depth_test) 15:31:37 ok i think it doesnt bother to write to it if you don't test 15:31:49 you can change the test also if you want 15:32:04 billitch: not sure though, I'm using cl-opengl, so i'll have to dig around to see how :depth affects the :mode param 15:32:25 :mode ? 15:32:51 (defclass cube-window (glut:window) () (:default-initargs :width *width* :height *height* :title "cube.lisp" :mode '(:double :rgba :depth))) 15:32:59 that's how i set up my window 15:33:05 oh that's just for the window buffer 15:33:23 it asks for bits (planes) in the buffer 15:33:31 ah, ok 15:33:37 but then you have to use them =) 15:33:42 see, i'm learning cl and opengl simultaneously so... 15:33:50 usually we use glDepthTest(GL_LEQUAL) to render only closest objects to camera 15:33:56 it's a lot to tackle all at once :) 15:34:29 yep, could be quite some fun ! 15:34:33 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:34:36 I'm really only doing 2d stuff right now, so i should probably just be using an orthographic projection, and i might not be having these issues 15:34:51 all i'm trying to get working right now is drawing a square where the user clicks 15:35:03 ok i think there's a test that always passes if you only want latest drawn to appear 15:35:13 or always fail => first drawn wins 15:35:42 hmmmmm 15:35:54 maybe useful for debugging 15:35:57 yeah 15:37:01 hm you're doing 15:37:18 sorry.. going to do picking then ? 15:37:24 *nyef* draws 2d only, back-to-front. No depth test required. 15:38:05 well, basically 15:38:08 ok, though if you care for performances you should render front to back and test depth to reduce texel consumption 15:38:09 this may sound confusing but 15:38:16 i just want to draw a square on the same plane 15:38:19 where the user clicks 15:38:20 so 15:38:28 maybe, i don't even need to do a read-pixels 15:38:43 oh yes that's quite the very wrong way ;) 15:38:44 i just always want to draw the squares on the same plane, and latest should drawn 15:38:48 ha 15:38:49 figured 15:38:56 but, i don't know how to get the correct mouse coordinates 15:39:00 -!- echo-area [herbert@222.130.203.90] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:39:00 ok 15:39:05 so i started using gluUnProject 15:39:11 use glUnproject on your mouse window coordinates 15:39:15 yep 15:39:18 that's right 15:39:18 It's a misconception that depth testing removes overdraw. 15:39:18 but that required a z value 15:39:35 and everythign i read said "use glReadPixels to get your z value" 15:39:37 isomer`` [~isomer@CPE00226b8ab7f9-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 15:39:42 so, that leads me to my read-pixels issue :) 15:39:44 oh alright 15:39:57 The only thing depth testing does is to preserve z order, without sorting from back-to-front. 15:39:58 just for clarity 15:40:40 all i do is set up a perspective projection, and then use gluLookAt to move out 10 units, and then draw with a z of 0 15:40:54 Madsy^: if test is false it does not draw 15:41:08 i also use glFrustum with -1 1 -1 1 1.5 20 15:41:12 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:41:14 to set up my viewing volume 15:41:23 ok 15:41:31 but, basically, i'm not moving the camera around yet, and i just want to draw everything with a z value of 0 15:41:36 billitch: So? It's not the same as culling. It is per-definition overdraw because every overlapping fragment is processed. 15:41:48 billitch: Consult the OpenGL pipeline. 15:41:50 so, anyway, i was getting really funky values back from gluUnProject because I don't know what z to pass 15:42:03 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 15:42:42 Madsy^: but if test fails it wont process all of it, its not as much as culling but avoids fetching textel and illumination 15:42:47 If you want culling, use backface culling (glEnable(GL_CULL_FACE), and/or implement frustum culling. 15:43:05 alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 15:43:08 I figure there's probably some calculation I could do based on my depth values (the 1.5 and 20 i send to glFrustum) and where i'm translating the camera to (my 10 up the z axis with my gluLookAt call) but I don't know what it is 15:43:22 davertron: so what's wrong with getting 0 if you draw eveerything at 0 ? 15:43:54 billitch: I'm not sure, but it doesn't draw correctly; everything ends up around the middle of the screen (origin, 0 0) no matter where i click 15:44:08 ok 15:44:28 i found, through random experimentation, that if i pass 0.93 to unproject as the z value, everything appears where i would expect 15:45:03 but i have no idea how to calculate that value based on my gluLookAt call and my glFrustum call, but I feel like those must be what's affecting the value i need to send to gluUnProject 15:45:17 zomgbie [~zomg@81.217.133.138] has joined #lisp 15:45:46 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 15:46:21 If you're doing 2d anyway, why do you need to do anything to your mouse coordinates other than make sure they're on the same scale as your display surface? 15:46:56 nyef: that's what i was saying before; i'm using a perspective projection right now, but i think if i used a 2d orthographic projection then i wouldn't have to do any calculating for my mouse coordinates 15:47:14 nyef: at this point, I'm just doing it because I want to understand what's going on :) 15:47:21 Ahh. 15:47:30 I'm stubborn 15:48:10 and so with depth test enabled do you still read 0 ? 15:48:27 billitch, no now i read 1.0 15:48:53 which, as i understand depth buffer values, basically means the opposite side, since all values are scaled between 0.0 and 1.0 in the depth buffer 15:49:02 ok that sounds a bit far, yes 15:49:07 0.0 is the near clipping plane and 1.0 is the far clipping plane 15:49:09 correct? 15:49:15 yep 15:49:20 do you clear at 1 ? 15:49:45 Makoryu [~vt920@97-123-201-238.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:49:57 since I'm moving 10.0 up the z axis, and my frustum is defined to be from 1.5 to 20.0 (18.5 units), i would expect the unproject to return somewhere around midway (0.5) i guess? 15:50:01 http://www.opengl.org/sdk/docs/man/xhtml/glClearDepth.xml 15:50:09 billitch: not sure what you mean by clear at 1 15:50:11 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:50:31 -!- jsoft [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:50:43 jsoft_ [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 15:50:45 at the beginning of my display call, I do "(gl:clear :color-buffer :depth-buffer)" 15:51:11 ok then it is 1 by default 15:51:59 basically, when i set up my window, I do (gl:enable :depth-test) 15:52:19 and then at the beginning of my display call, before I draw anything, i do (gl:clear :color-buffer :depth-buffer) 15:54:36 -!- isomer`` [~isomer@CPE00226b8ab7f9-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:54:46 are you sure that you enable depth test after the window is created ? 15:55:02 otherwise maybe your mouse coordinates are wrong ? 15:55:39 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:55:39 usually you have to invert y axis 15:55:43 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 15:56:13 i do invert y 15:56:40 the depth test does seem to be working now, as all new squares draw behind previously drawn squares 15:58:50 when i start my application, i always have a rectangle at the origin; even if i try doing gl:read-pixels set to 0 0, it doesn't seem to notice the rectangle there, as it always returns 1.0 15:59:00 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 15:59:13 maybe i should just pastie this code somewhere 15:59:25 yes please 15:59:29 it might be the kind of thing where someone could look at it and very quickly figure it out 16:01:50 is there a another site besides pastie.org that knows about common lisp? 16:01:58 sorry, duh, read the topic... 16:02:05 ;) 16:02:30 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:03:01 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:03:07 davertron pasted "cl-opengl-code" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97681 16:04:10 billitch: good luck deciphering that ;) 16:04:46 -!- [mark] [~mark@unaffiliated/mark/x-957811] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:04:57 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-45-82-65-159-57.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:05:58 leo2007 [~leo@wlan-gw.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 16:06:00 shadowspar [~rick@S010600212974d18c.su.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 16:09:56 Sumpen3026 [Sumpen@138.199.68.49] has joined #lisp 16:10:06 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 16:11:06 you have glut:display-window :before 16:11:06 lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 16:11:11 why :before ? 16:11:39 does it work if you set clear color to white ? 16:11:49 -!- zomgbie [~zomg@81.217.133.138] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:12:32 -!- Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:15:55 in method glut:mouse, you should setf x and y before read-pixels 16:16:18 isomer`` [~isomer@CPE00226b8ab7f9-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 16:16:41 oh 16:17:00 (gl:read-pixels 0 0 1 1 :depth-component :float) why 0,0 1,1 ? 16:17:10 -!- Sumpen3026 [Sumpen@138.199.68.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:17:38 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-30-82-253-166-30.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:19:03 zomgbie [~zomg@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 16:19:24 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-52.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:19:33 Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 16:20:36 ubii [~ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has joined #lisp 16:21:44 bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 16:23:48 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 16:24:11 -!- leo2007 [~leo@wlan-gw.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: reboot emacs] 16:25:44 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 16:25:59 -!- dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:27:30 acieroid [~acieroid@ks23738.kimsufi.com] has joined #lisp 16:28:33 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 16:28:51 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@adsl-75-36-214-244.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:29:10 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:29:51 -!- ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:30:15 merl15_ [~merl@188-22-27-33.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 16:30:30 billitch: Because the coordinates are scaled to your viewport? 16:30:40 billitch: i always draw a square at 00 16:30:57 billitch: so i was just trying to get the read-pixels call to see that square 16:31:01 billitch: that was debug code 16:31:07 billitch: normally, i'd use x,y there 16:31:12 ok 16:31:29 Oh, right, they -aren't- scaled to the viewport. 16:31:34 leo2007 [~leo@wlan-gw.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 16:31:44 nyef: yep =) 16:31:52 so i'm missing a call? 16:32:03 *nyef* starts to remember his experiments with whatever that bulk pixel uploading function was. 16:32:10 maybe race condition in glut:mouse ? i dont know.. 16:32:10 -!- zomgbie [~zomg@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:32:14 draw-pixels, maybe? 16:32:58 davertron: did you try to change the clear color to see if it really works ? 16:33:08 billitch: i'll try that now 16:33:09 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:33:18 in my experience if you call gl commands before window is initialized they dont work 16:33:30 -!- merl15__ [~merl@188-22-166-18.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:33:38 you could also call glerror everywhere but its boring ;) 16:33:40 billitch: yeah it works 16:33:50 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:33:59 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:34:05 billitch: the :before thing is kind of weird, but it has to do with objects in CL i guess, i don't fully understand it yet 16:34:23 billitch: that code was taken from one of the examples in cl-opengl 16:34:29 ok 16:34:43 its ok as long as the opengl context is created 16:34:49 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 16:34:58 k, it seems to work 16:35:02 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:35:08 my background is always white if i set it to 1 1 1 16:35:53 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:36:14 -!- Makoryu [~vt920@97-123-201-238.albq.qwest.net] has quit [] 16:38:21 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 16:38:37 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 16:38:42 so what were you saying about being scaled to the viewport? 16:40:20 -!- afa [~afa@131.152.178.51] has quit [Quit: afa] 16:41:07 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.218.168] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 16:41:36 ok 16:41:58 i think i know what's wrong : you call glu:look-at from the modelview matrix 16:42:39 hm no that's right ... 16:42:52 i'm quite rusty ^^; 16:42:57 -!- isomer`` [~isomer@CPE00226b8ab7f9-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:43:50 billitch: i'm definitely a beginner with opengl, so i'm still trying to figure out how the calls affect things 16:44:45 yes i remember stucking a long time trying to figure out the missing / wrong call in all of them 16:45:16 the state-machine paradigm is very error-prone 16:45:56 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-89-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:45:58 _macro [~macro@shiva.mochimedia.net] has joined #lisp 16:47:18 do you have an online manual for cl-opengl ? 16:48:03 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has quit [Quit: Want lisppaste in your channel? Email lisppaste-requests AT common-lisp.net.] 16:48:06 lisppaste [~lisppaste@common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 16:50:11 there's no manual that i know of, just http://github.com/3b/cl-opengl 16:50:28 -!- milanj [~milan@212.200.217.13] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:50:34 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 16:54:34 milan [~milan@212.200.217.13] has joined #lisp 16:55:13 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:55:20 billitch: for the most part, it's a pretty straightforward translation. You should be able to use regular OpenGL documentation if you keep the translation rules in mind. 16:56:02 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 16:57:47 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:58:15 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:58:17 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 16:58:35 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:00:26 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:02:51 yeah, cl-opengl is mostly just the same, he adds a few nice wrapper functions 17:03:15 like "read-pixels" and "un-project" are wrappers that are nice because i don't have to figure out how to pass "pointers" to the cffi translations 17:03:30 which is good, because my head would probably explode... 17:03:37 tcr: hello, I wonder if you are here 17:04:10 it looks really nice, but i dont understand something : in http://github.com/3b/cl-opengl/blob/master/gl/funcs.lisp line 211 17:04:28 it defines read-pixel not as a wrapper 17:04:59 and pixels are (void*) 17:05:14 so how are they converted to lisp values ? 17:05:19 davertron: and get* 17:05:38 notice the "defglfunc" though instead of "defun" 17:05:39 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 17:05:52 if you grep the source, you'll find a "defun read-pixels" 17:06:16 it's in cl-opengl/gl/framebuffer.lisp 17:06:26 sykopomp: get*? 17:07:41 billitch: as far as converting to lisp values, that's still something i have to learn more about 17:08:01 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:08:01 billitch: that's why i use the wrapper function from gl/framebuffer.lisp 17:08:13 billitch: because I don't have to figure that out :) 17:08:28 billitch: you can probably get a good idea by looking at the source in framebuffer.lisp though 17:08:44 yes it looks really straightforward 17:08:55 davertron: iirc, 3b did some wrapper around the glGetFoo (I think that's what they were called?) 17:09:04 it's been months since I did cl-opengl, though :( 17:09:10 ah, hm 17:09:14 yeah, he has a lot of nice wrappers 17:09:45 with-foreign-object must be doing something handy... 17:10:18 that must be a core lisp or cffi function, i don't see it defined in the cl-opengl source 17:10:26 anyway 17:10:41 billitch: there's probably lots of help in #lispgames if you ask there. 17:10:43 davertron: are you using SLIME? 17:10:50 luis: I use Limp :) 17:10:57 Limp actually works? 17:11:01 ha, not really 17:11:09 oh ok 17:11:10 davertron: doesn't Limp have some "Find definition" command? 17:11:13 it works until i crash the program :) 17:11:23 crash my lisp, i should say 17:11:32 luis: maybe, not sure 17:11:37 luis: that would be hany 17:11:50 davertron: if it had (like SLIME does, M-.), you could have jumped to cffi:with-foreign-object's definition. 17:11:54 sykopomp: thanks, didn't know lispgames existed 17:12:26 luis: i think with vim, you have to use ctags to get that kind of functionality 17:15:07 -!- leo2007 [~leo@wlan-gw.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: have a good day everybody!] 17:15:17 davertron: sorry i dont see what's wrong 17:15:29 billitch: that's ok, thanks for taking a look 17:15:46 davertron: well thanks for making me discover cl-opengl 17:16:04 freiksenet: kind of, what's up? 17:16:05 i've been mucking around, trying to figure out how 1.5, 20.0, and 10.0 can be combined to spit out a 0.93... 17:16:24 billitch: heh, np, start playing with it, and then tell me what I'm doing wrong :p 17:16:32 ha that's mamybe because the depth values are not really linear i guess 17:16:38 plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-204-22.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 17:17:00 Guthur [~Michael@213.122.221.177] has joined #lisp 17:17:14 billitch: yeah, i've been over my head in this stuff for a few days now... 17:17:19 billitch: learning a lot though :) 17:17:31 because to be useful the depth value should be 1/Z 17:17:37 in the projection equation 17:18:01 you should find this in the beginning of a good opengl book 17:18:17 i have the superbible and i was looking at that the other night but 17:18:22 didn't come across anything yet 17:18:27 not sure if that's a good opengl book though 17:18:41 i should probably start reading through the redbook, i think there's a free copy of that in html format online 17:18:54 hah maybe not, look for the projection matrix maybe 17:19:50 tcr: I am doing a small extention to SLIME, basically that dynamic style of coloration that I talked long time ago in SLIME mailing list (I know you actually disproved it, but I made a proof of concept and it seems to help a lot in reading the code, at least for me). Basically extension gets current package symbols from CL through SLIME and then goes through lisp code and, taking into account newly introduced local variables, colorize 17:22:18 billitch: the last faq question here http://www.opengl.org/resources/faq/technical/glu.htm sort of explains the usage of unproject and the z a bit 17:23:29 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 17:23:49 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:23:54 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 17:24:27 ah, well! 17:24:30 one stupid thing 17:24:54 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 17:24:55 the x,y pair i send to gl:read-pixels should be in window coords, not model coords 17:25:09 so sending 0, 0 and returning 1.0 is correct, because there's nothing at 0,0 in my window... 17:27:42 hmmmm, well, so it seems like I could do a stupid (first time through the loop, draw a square, readpixels to get the z value of that, then always use that z value) to draw things 17:27:54 freiksenet: Yes, I did that myself in past. You can reuse most of the indentation-update logic 17:28:04 dnolen [~dnolen@69.38.240.242] has joined #lisp 17:28:22 i'd have to do that everytime i changed positions though, so calculating my z value would be better... 17:29:39 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-197-195.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:45 tcr: ok, I will take a look. thanks a lot :) 17:32:22 oh, neat, when did :weakly-depends-on come to asdf? 17:33:33 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Quit: bye] 17:34:32 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has joined #lisp 17:35:29 palter_ [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:217:f2ff:fee7:72d7] has joined #lisp 17:35:30 -!- Guthur [~Michael@213.122.221.177] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:36:29 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 17:40:09 ryepup [~user@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 17:41:16 redline6561 [~redline@gate-20.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 17:42:37 drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:44:41 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:46:53 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 17:47:41 slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 17:50:31 -!- hlavaty [~user@77-22-100-58-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:50:43 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 17:50:53 mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 17:51:00 -!- adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-253-149.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:51:03 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:51:33 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 17:54:36 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-40-75.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:48 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 17:59:59 tcr: is slime-enclosing-context functional? 18:00:21 nope 18:01:02 tcr: ok, that's the problem then, I was thinking I am doing smthing wrong :( 18:01:04 OmniMancer1 [~OmniMance@122-57-5-42.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 18:01:20 oh, now i noticed the TODO 18:01:20 lol 18:01:33 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@122-57-4-164.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:01:41 -!- davazp [~user@147.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:02:37 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633430.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: hugod] 18:04:36 wormwood_ [~wormwood@pool-70-19-32-138.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:05:31 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:07:10 -!- wormwood [~wormwood@pool-141-155-165-179.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:08:10 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@ppp-70-251-93-34.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 18:08:36 -!- redline6561 [~redline@gate-20.spsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:09:29 Joreji [~thomas@75-091.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:10:56 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:12:07 -!- tcr [~tcr@host178.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:13:13 tcr [~tcr@host178.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 18:15:34 daniel___ [~daniel@p5082E478.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:15:37 Good evening! 18:15:37 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:16:39 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 18:18:51 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082B97F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:20:40 Hello beach. 18:20:45 -!- billitch [~billitch@2a01:e35:8b7c:5ce0:223:54ff:fe7c:a524] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:21:18 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:21:26 -!- Joreji [~thomas@75-091.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:22:38 isomer`` [~isomer@CPE00226b8ab7f9-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 18:23:07 ost [~user@217.66.22.1] has joined #lisp 18:23:48 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:24:29 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:54 -!- smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:37:18 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 18:37:56 smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:00 -!- smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:39:54 smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:41:36 rread_ [~rread@c-98-234-219-222.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:42:04 -!- xenosoz2 [~xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.2.6.1] 18:42:54 Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has joined #lisp 18:44:58 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:45:05 -!- rread [~rread@nat/sun/x-ordrzyjfercozbfy] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:45:05 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 18:45:05 -!- rread_ is now known as rread 18:46:40 carlocci [~nes@93.37.218.168] has joined #lisp 18:47:20 -!- palter_ [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter_] 18:47:20 -!- palter_ [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:217:f2ff:fee7:72d7] has quit [Quit: palter_] 18:51:00 Guthur [~Michael@host213-122-221-177.range213-122.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:52:08 rrice1 [~rrice@adsl-69-221-169-136.dsl.akrnoh.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:15 -!- rrice1 [~rrice@adsl-69-221-169-136.dsl.akrnoh.ameritech.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:52:30 rrice1 [~rrice@adsl-69-221-169-136.dsl.akrnoh.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:32 -!- rrice [~rrice@adsl-69-221-169-136.dsl.akrnoh.ameritech.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:52:45 -!- rrice1 [~rrice@adsl-69-221-169-136.dsl.akrnoh.ameritech.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:53:19 rrice [~rrice@adsl-69-221-169-136.dsl.akrnoh.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 18:54:41 Joreji [~thomas@84-130.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:56:09 HG` [~HG@xdslej193.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:56:45 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.233] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:00:28 hugod [~hugod@modemcable086.138-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 19:00:44 -!- fihi09``` [~user@pool-96-224-46-250.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:01:28 md1` [~user@chello089173014058.chello.sk] has joined #lisp 19:02:14 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 19:03:37 -!- Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:04:14 Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has joined #lisp 19:04:41 -!- HET2 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:05:45 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 19:06:55 -!- Joreji [~thomas@84-130.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:07:10 Joreji [~thomas@84-130.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 19:07:45 I hate darwin. They *force* me to use undocumented/unsupported stuff. 19:07:53 -!- Sumpen [~Sumpen@81-232-77-93-no46.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:09:25 mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has joined #lisp 19:10:24 "But you always have the choice of not using it" 19:10:37 not using darwin? 19:10:59 yes 19:11:09 btw, do you think is available in solaris's userland? 19:11:13 When you say darwin, do you actually mean the open source OS or Mac OS X? 19:11:44 tmh: either, from the documentation. 19:13:03 You maintain the Mac port of SBCL based on documentation alone? No access to a running system? 19:13:59 now *that* could never work! 19:14:07 attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-132-189-83.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 19:14:16 Unless you are a freaking human computer. 19:14:19 tmh: I maintain it with documentation and what seems to work on my macbook. 19:14:38 heh 19:14:46 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:14:46 And hope for the best until someone reports breakage. And even then I don't think I've committed anything serious yet for macs. 19:14:59 I tend to stick to the non-OS-specific stuff. 19:15:34 but you know you're in a bad shape when your own patch comes up in the first page on google for "semaphore_signal_thread" :| 19:17:36 -!- Tanami [~tanami@150.101.97.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:17:41 Ugh 19:18:01 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:18:28 That doesn't necessarily mean people are searching for it, it may just mean you're the only person that dares use such an obscure part of the API. 19:18:45 I guess either way, though, you're in bad shape. :-) 19:18:58 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:19:29 There's some mention of related functions on the ccl mailing list. I should look in their runtime. 19:20:26 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 19:20:46 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 19:20:56 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:21:09 Apple clearly doesn't really give a shit about Darwin 19:22:33 sugarshark [~ole@p4FDA9BC9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:22:39 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 19:22:40 I mean, kqueue and poll have been busted the entire life of OSX (well, ever since they were implemented, in 10.3 or so, I forget exactly) 19:23:37 Tanami [~tanami@150.101.97.171] has joined #lisp 19:23:42 they fixed kqueue for snow leopard 19:23:49 right... ccl builds *everything* on top of semaphores? 19:23:49 no they didn't 19:23:57 I'm running snow leopard, it's still broken. 19:24:07 whats broken 19:25:04 devices 19:25:15 tty, pty, dev null, etc 19:25:24 kq = select.kqueue(); devnull = os.open("/dev/null", O_WRONLY); kq.control([select.kevent(devnull, select.KQ_FILTER_WRITE, select.KQ_EV_ADD)], 1, 0) 19:25:25 i only tried bpf 19:25:31 (in python syntax) 19:25:32 and it was broken in 10.5 19:25:37 but it seems to work on 10.6 19:25:54 that returns [] 19:26:03 aka: error adding event: EINVAL 19:26:23 poll doesn't support any special things either. But select does. 19:26:45 If you look at the sourcecode for darwin, it's quite clear why: there's a different function used on the device struct for select and for poll. 19:26:50 most devices only implement the select call 19:27:49 i'll check again 19:28:10 freebsd had the same problems 19:28:15 but they fixed those some time ago 19:28:33 no version of freebsd I've ever tried has had kqueue not work on these devices 19:28:43 But it's possible some ancient version had that problem 19:29:36 well bpf was busted in 4 for sure 19:29:45 maybe other devices 19:31:28 saikat_ [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:31:54 Does freebsd also have a separate select implementation? 19:32:16 I really don't see the point of making every device implement it twice. 19:32:52 (or as seems to be the case...not) 19:33:48 -!- Borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:35:25 slyrus_ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 19:35:25 -!- md1` [~user@chello089173014058.chello.sk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:36:22 marioxcc` [~user@200.56.154.242] has joined #lisp 19:36:48 -!- marioxcc` [~user@200.56.154.242] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:36:51 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.56.154.242] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:37:15 marioxcc [~user@200.56.154.242] has joined #lisp 19:38:29 enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-252-170-201.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:38:36 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 19:38:58 penny [~penny@f049129254.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:40:24 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 19:41:14 -!- isomer`` [~isomer@CPE00226b8ab7f9-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:42:41 Borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:42:42 Phoodus [foo@174-26-247-120.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:45:03 -!- saikat_ is now known as saikat 19:45:16 -!- wvdschel [~wim@78-20-14-180.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 19:46:01 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@catv-89-132-189-83.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:47:39 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 19:48:53 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:49:29 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 19:52:34 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:54:19 *sigh* Too much crapwork and not enough time to spend on more interesting things like SICL. 19:56:56 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:57:08 what is SICL? 19:57:55 ost: It's beach-lisp. 19:58:15 ah 19:58:44 ost: Oh, just another pet project of mine. The purpose is to create a new CL implementation, but in a way that makes each module as portable as possible, so usable by other implementations as well. Another purpose is to give great error messages to the user, be it at compile time or at runtime. 19:59:17 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@200.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:59:30 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:59:31 Sorry if it's a stupid question, but is the portable module thing so that extensions to the standard can be used by others? 19:59:46 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 19:59:58 beach: I see. That would be great. 20:00:55 Elench: Could be, though the main purpose is for people who like to experiment with other implementations such as _3b` to be able to incorporate a portable implementation of large parts of the language, so as to avoid having to implement it themselves. 20:01:33 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-2-148-71.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:01:50 ost: And it is also a way for me to take advantage of very short periods (15-30 minutes) of inactivity that my current work unfortunately seems to generate. 20:01:56 beach: ah, that's also a good reason 20:03:30 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 20:03:33 tsuru [~user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:03:59 isomer`` [~isomer@CPE00226b8ab7f9-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 20:04:12 Many people say "it's a monumental task", and I agree. But if done right, each module would be useful to someone else as well, and I want to start with exactly those modules, such as a mostly-portable reader, a portable implementation of format, portable expanders for all standard macros, portable type declarations for all standard functions, etc. 20:05:04 Not to mention: Excellent docstrings for all CL functions, variables, types, etc. 20:05:30 kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-52.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 20:06:36 Another possibly-interesting question is how much of the system you actually need in order for it to be useful by itself. 20:06:37 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:15 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 20:07:21 nyef: Yes, that's a very good question, and the answer is "it depends". 20:07:39 Indeed. The universal answer. 20:07:43 minion: logs 20:07:44 logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 20:09:04 beach: is this a ground-up implementation? Or built on top of an existing CL? 20:09:16 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-198-226.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 20:09:19 nyef: There are several scenarios possible: 1. You are an SBCL maintainer, and your docstrings suck. Use the docstring module of SICL, perhaps with minor modifications. 20:09:30 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:09:43 hi beach, nyef, gigamonkey :) 20:09:45 gigamonkey: I considered building on an existing implementation, but decided against it. 20:09:55 hey fe[nl]ix! Back home? 20:10:04 yes 20:10:05 beach: so you have to build your own runtime with GC, etc.? 20:10:08 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:10:22 I more meant, -by itself-. That is, as its own system, even if it might not be complete. 20:10:33 gigamonkey: That's the least important part of it though, if I can get people to use the other modules. 20:10:57 nyef: As I said, that's the least important goal right now. 20:11:00 Right. Thus I'm slightly surprised you don't just build on top of some other impl. 20:11:13 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:11:30 qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has joined #lisp 20:11:38 gigamonkey: Because I would end up forking an existing implementation that I would then not have the time to keep up with. 20:11:38 -!- milan is now known as milanj 20:11:43 lnostdal [~lnostdal@200.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 20:11:49 I hear you can get decent GC from a JVM these days :-) 20:12:08 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 20:12:25 gigamonkey: If you think of the goal as being "a better CL implementation", then your suggestion makes sense. 20:12:57 gigamonkey: But if you think of it as "improve the current situation", then I think I am on the right track. 20:13:41 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7546c6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:13:59 gigamonkey: I don't think I will ever be able to finish a better CL implementation, though I hope I will, but it's unlikely. So the question is how to make my work useful even if I don't. 20:14:05 beach: Actually I was imagining that most of what you are talking about (in the 30 seconds worth of conversation I've seen about it) you could do in portable CL on top of *any* implementation. Which would then meet the goal of being easily adoptable by other or new impls. 20:14:38 gigamonkey: Yes, exactly. It's all "portable" code. 20:14:45 gigamonkey: That's *exactly* the point. 20:14:57 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 20:15:20 So why bother writing your own runtime? That seems to me like a lot of work that's unrelated to writing portable CL modules. 20:15:31 *gigamonkey* is probably just being dense 20:15:48 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 20:15:50 gigamonkey: *sigh* I just went through telling you that that's the least important part. 20:15:52 I'm more curious than kibitzing. 20:16:08 Right, so why do it? (I think we may be talking past each other.) 20:16:21 I.e. why do it at all? 20:16:21 gigamonkey: Did I say I was doing it? 20:16:21 gigamonkey: he's not, these days. 20:16:39 Well, you said you considered building on top of an existing implementation and decided not to. 20:16:49 I took that to mean you decided to build your own implementation from the ground up. 20:16:58 Maybe I misunderstood. 20:17:02 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 20:17:18 gigamonkey: No, top-down. First write all the totally portable stuff. 20:17:24 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 20:17:35 And all this portable stuff actually runs on existing implementations? 20:17:54 gigamonkey: If the are compliant, yes, that's the idea. 20:17:57 That's what I'd call "building on an existing implementation." 20:18:06 Whatever. 20:18:22 So I am no longer surpised about how you are going about it. ;-) 20:18:28 wedgeV [~wedge@rrcs-24-105-134-152.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:18:28 thanks! 20:18:31 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 20:18:34 Carry on! 20:18:50 Thanks for the encouragement! 20:19:13 So does SICL stand for something? 20:19:17 Nah 20:19:43 silicon chloride? 20:19:57 (Does that even work, chemically?) 20:20:12 For instance, take the docstrings. I am convinced that docstring in code is a bad idea, because people reading the code know what it is supposed to do. Thus, programmers tend to supply skimpy docstrings. 20:20:18 -!- Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:20:39 nyef, there's at least silicon tetrachloride, SiCl4, says Wikipedia. 20:20:46 Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 20:21:09 Hezy [~Hezy@62.56.254.250] has joined #lisp 20:21:10 The idea is to use the (little known) (setf documentation) facility to provide a totally-portable set of excellent docstings that would be irresistable to maintainters of current implementations. 20:23:02 And certainly, if you were to plan a new implementation, rather than writing substandard docstrings for standard features, you would just use the SICL module for that purpose. 20:24:18 Honestly, I'd be more likely to have some feature for providing a hotlink to the relevant clhs page. 20:24:34 beach: if that's where you start, I'll gladly adopt your docstrings in ABCL. 20:25:07 Now a good docstring probably takes from 5 to 30 minutes depending on how much research you have to make and how complex the feature is. But a type declaration that the compiler might use, is usually a 2-5 minute kind-of-thing. 20:25:18 ehu: There you go! 20:25:48 gigamonkey: See, it is already working! :) 20:25:59 -!- HG` [~HG@xdslej193.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:27:01 beach: Yup. 20:27:13 -!- Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:28:21 Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 20:28:32 When you get to some of the actual implementation bits (reader, formatter, etc) it'd be interesting to see what bits can be totally portable with no loss of performance. 20:29:00 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 20:29:25 It might help CL's big-ball-of-mud reputation if there was something that actually demonstrated that large parts of the language really are just libraries on top of a smaller core. 20:29:29 gigamonkey: For the reader, I know the answer: everything except #n= and #n# can be implemented in a portable way without loss of performance. 20:29:50 gigamonkey, ... it'd still be a big ball of mud. :P 20:30:01 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:30:07 tic: but no more than, say, the Java JDK 20:30:38 gigamonkey: Of course, someone needs to write a portable implementation of that paper (Clinger was it?) for reading floating-point numbers. 20:30:41 gigamonkey, can't quite compare - I think it's the image-based development model that is usually seen as "muddy". 20:30:45 beach: that would be interesting: 20:31:06 beach: currently abcl implements most of the reader in Java 20:31:10 beach: I have the basics of that completed. There are 2 algorithms in the paper. 20:31:17 gigamonkey: FORMAT is another thing that could be done almost entirely portably. 20:31:26 because of a bootstrapping problem: you need a reader to read Lisp to bootstrap. 20:31:52 ehu: I see, yes. 20:31:53 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:31:57 ehu: you could have a pidgin-lisp reader. 20:32:19 tmh: Great! I could use that! 20:32:24 beach: The first algorithm is essentially an infinite precision approach, the second algorithm is an 'expanded' precision approach. 20:32:29 *nyef* was about to make essentially the same suggestion that pkhuong did. 20:32:59 (Out of a "been there, done that" experience.) 20:33:02 beach: Just a second, let me look at my code and see what state it's in. 20:33:31 pkhuong: yea. I feel too much of abcl is now implemented as Java primitives. 20:33:56 I should indeed look at designing a smaller language to bootstrap from. 20:34:07 the rest is compiled to java byte code anyway 20:34:50 nyef: any idea how sb-posix flocks could interfere with lutexes? 20:34:52 A minimal reader to get a real reader up and running would be nice. 20:35:03 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:35:19 *tic* tries not to think of yo dawg-jokes with all the recursion in this discussion... 20:35:22 -!- davertron [~Dave@74-92-46-229-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:35:28 pkhuong: Nope. I simple Don't Understand thread synchrony. 20:35:54 chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has joined #lisp 20:35:59 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 20:36:11 -!- Hezy [~Hezy@62.56.254.250] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:36:28 ehu: You might be able to get away with lists, symbols, integers, characters, and strings as your minimal reader syntax. 20:36:40 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 20:36:44 beach: I'll find some time to spend on that and get back to you. I haven't looked at it in a while and need to get back up to speed. As I recall, it wasn't clear to me how to implement 'expanded' precision algorithm. 20:36:59 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 20:37:54 -!- Athas [~athas@82.211.209.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:38:48 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-xo.basistech.com] has joined #lisp 20:39:25 tmh: Great! I would of course be totally delighted for contributions to SICL, but my experience is that those will be rare. In addition, I don't have an issue tracker in place, though mvilleneuve hinted he might manage such a thing. 20:41:01 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [] 20:41:07 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 20:41:15 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:41:28 jao [~jao@83.43.35.213] has joined #lisp 20:42:00 beach: I use email for my issue tracker with lisp-unit. ;-) I'm looking over the unit testing for the library now and it's starting to jog my memory where I got stuck. I need to read over the paper again and see if I can organize the solution that's been festering in the back of my mind. 20:42:15 -!- isomer`` [~isomer@CPE00226b8ab7f9-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:42:17 nyef: it would sure be nice to do this from a general design. Do you know of any papers describing how "others did it"? 20:42:36 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 20:42:57 i.e. get the layers right from the beginning 20:43:05 ehu: That I do not, though I did try to build a lisp reader in forth at one point. 20:43:08 So just in order to give an idea where things are: FORMAT is almost complete, with some bugs to fix and the floating-point printers not yet implemented. The LOOP macro has a complete syntax analysis, but no code generation yet. READ has just been started; most of the dispatch reader macros must be implemented. The iteration macros are mostly implemented, but may not conform to the high standards we expect from the syntax analysis. 20:43:23 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:43:43 tmh: I'll be listening for progress. 20:43:45 Code generation for loop shouldn't be too difficult, should it? 20:44:00 nyef: I think you are right. 20:44:43 ... Hunh. There's an interesting idea floating around here about SBCL bootstrapping. 20:44:58 ? 20:45:21 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-xo.basistech.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:45:30 nyef: build from xcl. That's our restricted sublanguage :) 20:46:02 The reason SBCL tends not to use LOOP in the compiler is that there are portability problems with different LOOP implementations, but we already arrange to use our own backquote implementation... 20:46:37 -!- ryepup [~user@216.155.97.1] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:46:39 ah. having a non-cl language to build from does remove the problems you'd get building SBCL on a CL with all the naming conflicts. 20:47:02 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:06 ryepup [~user@216.155.97.1] has joined #lisp 20:47:08 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:47:26 oh. ok. you were not meaning to use a subset. 20:47:29 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 20:47:30 just a different set. 20:47:50 prxq [~mommer@f051097248.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:47:56 hi 20:48:06 hello prxq 20:48:16 when is your talk? 20:48:16 hi beach 20:48:24 maybe thursday 20:48:29 isomer`` [~isomer@CPE00226b8ab7f9-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 20:48:51 nyef: actually it does use LOOP 20:49:00 but yeah I wondered why so scarcely 20:49:01 Yes, but rarely. 20:49:46 And it's originally because extended LOOP wasn't in CL, and these days it's because of differences in loop implementations amongst host compilers. 20:49:56 ehu: The temptation to use features of the host language must be great. I think the SBCL people has spent a lot of time and effort to eliminate such dependencies. 20:50:05 varjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 20:50:10 -!- varjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has left #lisp 20:50:22 nyef: and habit. 20:51:06 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:51:30 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:51:41 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 20:51:42 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 20:51:44 nyef: *EXACTLY*, and that's another reason for SICL. Existing implementations such as SBCL have a historic baggage in that they were written before the standard was adopted, so don't use some interesting features of the standard. 20:52:58 Still, the current argument is that it's easy to write a non-conforming loop, and hard to diagnose when one silently goes wrong. 20:53:19 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 20:53:20 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:21b:63ff:fe96:e1ff] has quit [Quit: palter] 20:54:47 It's only easy because SBCL just happens not to be anal about it like it is on other issues 20:55:14 tcr: more warnings might solve that 20:55:44 Yes, and to close the circle that's something where e.g. SICL could excel at :-) 20:55:45 That, and some other implementations might not behave well even with conforming loops. 20:56:08 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:56:20 That could be said of -anything-. I think nowadays all should be quite good at it 20:56:55 let me know when all CL implementations that anyone cares about implement user-defined method combinations 20:57:03 -!- ryepup [~user@216.155.97.1] has left #lisp 20:57:28 Krystof: Nevermind that, when can we use generic functions inside the compiler? 20:58:05 Krystof: you're not referring to D-M-C? 20:58:10 yes 20:58:22 nyef: about 6 months after I'm a billionnaire? 20:58:35 So... not quite soon? 20:58:44 ... no 20:58:45 which implementations - apart from abcl - don't do D-M-C in the long form? 20:58:54 *nyef* suggests that clisp might not. 20:58:58 no, clisp does 20:59:02 Ooh. 20:59:05 about as soon as it did, people started caring about abcl 20:59:12 pkhuong pasted "New mutex/condvar implementation for lutex platforms" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97696 20:59:12 Heh. 20:59:19 so, sucks to be someone trying to use lowest-common-denominator stuf 20:59:22 Right. we have it high on our list 20:59:27 what's wrong with the above? 20:59:38 we will be releasing metaclass support in 3 weeks 20:59:46 sicl? 20:59:51 I'll try to get it in the release after that. 21:00:03 prxq: abcl. 21:00:14 prxq: unless you're asking what sicl is. 21:00:32 ehu: right, sorry. What is SICL? :-) 21:00:48 prxq: it's a project by beach. 21:01:14 ... (rplacd tail (setq tail tail-form))? 21:01:29 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:01:34 Is there a guaranteed argument-evaluation order for funcall? 21:01:42 nyef: always. 21:01:43 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 21:01:57 Left-to-right, I hope? 21:02:02 as usual. 21:02:19 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 21:02:26 fihi09``` [~user@pool-96-224-46-250.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:33 Okay, I just worry when I see such nastiness as the form for one parameter modifying the binding for another. 21:02:49 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 21:02:50 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 21:03:03 pkhuong: I'm almost off to bed, but condition-wait is missing an uwp, surely? 21:03:32 tcr: why? it's in a w/o interrupt. 21:04:08 you can unwind from the receive-pending-interrupts? 21:04:08 -!- Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:04:40 we're out of the critical section by then. 21:04:42 Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:05:02 We don't hold the mutex anymore, and have already marked it as not ours. 21:05:10 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Client Quit] 21:06:16 anyone know of some library that translates HTML to SEXPS? (preferable CL-WHO-compat) 21:07:03 hypno: cxml? 21:07:15 maybe there's an html variant 21:07:26 hypno: closure-html 21:07:51 but I don't think that its output is compatible with cl-who 21:07:54 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:217:f2ff:fee7:72d7] has joined #lisp 21:08:01 hypno: there's an xmls sink for cxml. 21:08:22 You could derive a cl-who builder from it. Or maybe you're looking for html-template? 21:08:45 nah. i am using cl-who right now, doing even the pages in SEXPS. 21:08:51 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217133138.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:08:58 but my "designer" didnt code in sexps. 21:08:59 pkhuong: I'm too tired, but did you try the mailbox tests with it? :-) 21:09:32 sb-concurrency works fine. 21:09:41 well, tests fine. 21:10:37 nikodemus deactivated the tests on sb-lutex a few commits ago 21:10:44 did you reactivate them? 21:10:53 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 21:11:15 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:11:45 nope. I shall. 21:12:16 davazp [~user@147.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:00 ThomasI [~thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined #lisp 21:13:04 sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has joined #lisp 21:14:41 actually, *sleep* seems to be an issue. 21:16:25 can someone give me a little assistance, i have a string that is a comma separated list of numbers, i want to convert it to a list or array, so i replaced all the commas with spaces, now, i believe i should be able to use concatenate to "build" an list from this string but i keep failing 21:16:53 rvirding [~chatzilla@h80n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 21:16:59 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 21:17:12 *tcr* gone 21:17:19 PuffTheMagic: look for the split-sequence library. 21:17:28 It has about one function in it, which will do exactly what you want. 21:18:00 gigamonkey: what i want is to make this function my self 21:18:35 Okay. So write a loop and use the START and END arguments to PARSE-INTEGER to pull out the numbers. 21:18:57 or a state machine 21:19:06 Or READ-FROM-STRING if the numbers are not integers. 21:19:36 But in the latter case you probably want to wrap the whole thing in WITH-STANDARD-IO-SYNTAX and then bind *READ-EVAL* to nil. 21:20:07 i have something that looks like this "12 34 56 78" and I want to convert it to this (12 34 56 78).... there has to be a way to do that with concatenate and quote 21:20:18 No. 21:20:25 PuffTheMagic: forget about concatenate 21:21:08 Well, if you want to be grotesque (read-from-string (concatenate 'string "(" str ")")) 21:21:17 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-40-75.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:21:20 But that's terrible, terrible code. 21:21:59 -!- mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:22:04 why is that so bad? 21:22:22 Because using the reader is huge overkill for this task. 21:22:45 It *is* a quick and dirty solution that works, if that's all you want. 21:22:50 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:22:55 billitch [~billitch@2a01:e35:8b7c:5ce0:223:54ff:fe7c:a524] has joined #lisp 21:23:06 But you then need to worry about *READ-EVAL* lest someone give you an evil string. 21:23:12 plus security risks 21:23:19 right 21:23:37 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 21:24:05 i was looking for something quick cause this is going to be used to do FFT on lots of EEG data and I dont want to be wasting time paring data 21:24:09 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [] 21:24:18 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 21:24:19 parsing? 21:24:28 then you definitely don't want the reader 21:24:44 it's the most flexible you can get; not the fastest 21:24:49 If you don't want to waste time parsing date, you need to parse it efficiently. 21:25:40 -!- prxq [~mommer@f051097248.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:26:24 these files are pretty large though too 21:26:35 so, make it quick. 21:26:37 -!- Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:26:38 don't use the reader 21:26:41 i dont want to have the data in mem twice 21:26:56 Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 21:27:12 What is the actual format of the data? 21:27:18 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.56.154.242] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:27:21 :-) then don't parse it: there's no way to *not* have data in memory twice while parsing 21:27:49 gigamonkey: is raw eeg, each line in 1 channel 21:28:00 samples are complex numbers separated by , 21:28:04 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-52.cust.tele2.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:28:06 So you can parse one line at a time? 21:28:14 no 21:28:18 dont plan on it 21:28:27 err 21:28:34 yeah 21:28:49 reading the file into mem will be 1 line at a time 21:29:04 (mapcar #'parse-integer (split-sequence #\, "12,23,34,45")) => (12 23 34 45) 21:29:18 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 21:29:18 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:217:f2ff:fee7:72d7] has quit [Quit: palter] 21:29:33 drewc: you trying to kill him, that'll have the data in memory *three* times. ;-) 21:29:39 :D 21:29:49 lol 21:29:51 kwinz3 [~kwinz@d86-33-115-52.cust.tele2.at] has joined #lisp 21:29:53 gigamonkey: only each line. 21:30:02 pkhuong: yeah, I know. 21:30:11 that's a bs requirement anyway :P 21:30:23 well 21:30:30 Not "only each line", it's "only until the first gc after a given line has been parsed". 21:30:34 each file i have is about 20-30mb 21:30:44 only 30 MB? 21:30:46 wow. 21:30:55 read it into memory in one big chunk 21:30:56 the particular data i am testing on 21:31:00 Why aren't you just mmap()ping it again? 21:31:08 I mean, what's 30 MB these days? 21:31:15 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:31:22 ehu: About the size of a core file? 21:31:57 ehu: mem is cheap and i have enough 21:32:05 nyef: unless you reuse the string. 21:32:24 nyef: the data is represented as strings, for some reason... 21:32:31 PuffTheMagic: given that it's naturally divided by lines, it seems like the obvious thing to do is parse it one line at a time into actual numbers. 21:32:33 PuffTheMagic: then were are your requirements coming from? 21:32:37 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:33:18 If you can't actually store all the numbers in memory, then you'll need to do something quite a bit more clever but it'll probably involve converting your text file into something that you can put back on disk and access more efficiently. 21:33:26 ehu: well i mean.. idk what data i am run this on later, so considering things will break if i run out of mem, mem usage is more of an issue than how long it takes 21:33:55 what exactly do you plan to do with this data once it is in list form? 21:34:06 drewc: FFT on it 21:34:10 why are you using lists if memory usage is important? 21:34:22 There's also the issue--which drewc may be alluding to--that you may not want lists; you probably want arrays. 21:34:23 pkhuong: i was gonna use an array 21:35:15 well, i was alluding to the fact that it's hard to operate on data unless you read at least some of it into memory ;) 21:35:16 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 21:35:18 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:35:38 drewc: there's that too. 21:35:41 will try the mapcar method 21:35:45 that seems like it should work for now 21:35:59 or (MAP 'VECTOR ....) 21:36:10 right 21:36:40 but i wont know how many samples there are 21:36:58 untill i have parsed it once 21:37:22 vector-push-extend 21:37:40 the easy way is to use vector-push-extend. If that becomes an issue, you'll want to use a list of chunks and concatenate them at the end. 21:39:18 -!- qbomb [~qbomb@firewall.gibsonemc.com] has left #lisp 21:40:03 thanks 21:44:13 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:50:54 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:51:41 -!- isomer`` [~isomer@CPE00226b8ab7f9-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:51:46 -!- Joreji [~thomas@84-130.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:53:15 -!- Borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:53:25 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:54:13 fy__ [~AndChat@193.sub-97-48-6.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 21:54:15 Borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 21:55:52 -!- fy__ [~AndChat@193.sub-97-48-6.myvzw.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:56:10 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 21:56:35 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 21:57:02 so, as far as I can tell, the kernel forgets to return a thread from *nanosleep* when there are too many semaphore ops. 21:58:27 moesenle [~lorenz@157.22.9.14] has joined #lisp 21:59:57 isomer`` [~isomer@CPE00226b8ab7f9-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 22:00:29 -!- milanj [~milan@212.200.217.13] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:01:37 Sbidicuda [~antani@host10-230-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 22:03:27 ok so I have my function that uses parse-float, split-sequence and map 'vector, and it works good 22:03:38 Edward [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-51-65.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:03:47 thanks again 22:04:05 i dont suppose there is a parallel version of map 'vector 22:04:53 -!- hugod [~hugod@modemcable086.138-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: hugod] 22:05:03 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@69.38.240.242] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 22:05:22 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:05:43 hugod [~hugod@modemcable086.138-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 22:05:45 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 22:05:58 map and split-sequence? but that's inefficient! 22:06:11 faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has joined #lisp 22:07:02 im not saying its inefficient 22:07:39 -!- penny [~penny@f049129254.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:07:54 but it takes 14s to read in a 22mb file, that has 21 lines 22:08:15 you want a parallel version, but your sequential one isn't optimized either 22:08:59 PuffTheMagic: just comma separated numbers? nothing else? 22:09:12 yeah floats 22:09:50 if i wanted speed, i'd read the stream in the binary mode and constructed floats as i go 22:10:03 without creating strings, etc. 22:10:56 -!- ubii [~ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:11:01 -!- hugod [~hugod@modemcable086.138-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: hugod] 22:11:29 stassats`: so fundamental-binary-input-stream 22:11:34 ? 22:12:05 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 22:12:24 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 22:12:29 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:47 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:12:49 :element-type '(unsigned-byte 8) argument to OPEN, you could use a character stream, but external formats might not be as fast as you need 22:13:44 -!- alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:15:24 anair_84 [~anair_84@wsip-72-215-168-118.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:18:16 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 22:18:35 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:18:45 -!- tcr [~tcr@host178.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:21:07 base-char + ascii encoding? 22:23:11 But, yeah, I'd probably do something binary too. 22:24:10 (Hell, if I were feeling particularly odd, I'd mmap() the file, use a SAP and a TAGBODY... Well, you get the idea.) 22:25:42 nyef: i'd mmap and go through libc. 22:25:57 if i was gonna use libc i would just write in C 22:26:02 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:26:12 -!- Sbidicuda [~antani@host10-230-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:26:41 PuffTheMagic: why? libc is perfectly usable via FFI from lisp 22:26:54 yeah but I know C... i am learning lisp 22:27:00 this would be 1000x faster for me in C 22:28:38 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:31:03 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:31:48 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 22:35:57 -!- ThomasI [~thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit [Quit: Bye Bye!] 22:36:41 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 22:37:11 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 22:39:35 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:39:37 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 22:40:12 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279633430.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 22:40:18 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:42:31 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:42:45 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:43:52 more graphical lisp spreadsheet porn : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5KmZxQxiJ0 22:43:56 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 22:44:47 dto: you're using sdl, right? 22:44:53 yep 22:45:36 -!- merl15_ [~merl@188-22-27-33.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:46:04 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:46:23 hi dnolen 22:46:41 netytan [~netytan@85.211.36.59] has joined #lisp 22:47:22 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 22:47:36 dto: did you shot it on a camera? 22:48:09 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-16-247-61.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 22:48:16 yes. my screen recorder isn't working right 22:48:17 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:48:23 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@80.153.54.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:48:49 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:50:21 -!- sugarshark [~ole@p4FDA9BC9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: sleeping] 22:51:26 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:52:17 -!- glogic [~rm@97.76.48.98] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:53:05 -!- faux [~user@1-1-4-21a.gkp.gbg.bostream.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:54:06 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:24 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:55:29 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-24-16-247-61.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:56:53 rm_ [~rm@97.76.48.98] has joined #lisp 22:56:57 -!- rm_ [~rm@97.76.48.98] has quit [Client Quit] 22:57:38 rm_ [~rm@97.76.48.98] has joined #lisp 22:59:11 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 22:59:20 -!- rm_ [~rm@97.76.48.98] has quit [Client Quit] 22:59:38 rm_ [~rm@97.76.48.98] has joined #lisp 23:00:43 -!- rm_ [~rm@97.76.48.98] has quit [Client Quit] 23:02:13 glogic [~rm@97.76.48.98] has joined #lisp 23:05:19 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:06:13 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:07:56 stassats`: so if I use read-byte, how to i get an array of bytes into a float? 23:08:29 by a small matter of programming 23:09:21 kejsaren1 [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 23:09:24 kejsaren2 [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 23:10:48 -!- jao [~jao@83.43.35.213] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:11:06 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:12:05 Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 23:12:09 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:12:44 nowhere_man [~pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 23:12:48 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:15:30 -!- netytan [~netytan@85.211.36.59] has quit [Quit: netytan] 23:16:46 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 23:16:55 tltstc [~tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:18:19 Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.233] has joined #lisp 23:21:54 -!- Soulman [~kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:24:50 poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has joined #lisp 23:24:58 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 23:28:34 -!- levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Quit: ...] 23:31:08 -!- isomer`` [~isomer@CPE00226b8ab7f9-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:38:44 -!- rrice [~rrice@adsl-69-221-169-136.dsl.akrnoh.ameritech.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:42:24 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h80n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 23:42:37 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 23:42:53 any lightning talk for the BLM next April 26th? 23:42:54 -!- davazp [~user@147.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:43:36 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@rrcs-24-105-134-152.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 23:44:38 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 23:46:58 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:48:48 Fare: I'm drawing a blank on ideas for lightning talks right now, I'm afraid. 23:49:12 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:51:20 I might give one on ASDF2... if ASDF2 is released before then. 23:51:24 Which is possible. 23:52:15 cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 23:54:34 xxtjaxx [~user@p54B7632A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:54:52 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-188-154.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 23:56:46 isomer`` [~isomer@CPE00226b8ab7f9-CM0011aec5e684.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 23:58:45 -!- cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:59:21 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:59:56 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:59:59 adamvh [~adamvh@c-69-136-131-100.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp