00:02:39 -!- HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:03:36 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h80n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.2/20100316055951]] 00:04:08 rvirding [~chatzilla@h80n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 00:05:02 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h80n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 00:05:58 lat_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 00:06:09 mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:08:14 grrrrrrrrrr, puri is crap 00:08:22 Oh? 00:08:48 no idea of encoding and rfc's and it's full of simple-base-string annotations 00:09:35 URIs can reasonably be treated as s-b-s, if you make the user do the percent-encoding themselves. 00:09:49 (said with no knowlege of what puri does) 00:10:23 Ah, right... Why do I have the vague impression that it actually predates some of the RFCs? 00:10:28 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:10:54 And is it an lw-compat thing or a dan?b special? 00:10:55 Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-179-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:10:55 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-179-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:10:55 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 00:10:56 uris are ASCII strings 00:11:04 Heh. 00:11:12 no, really 00:11:23 I believe you... almost. 00:11:32 you can encode an Unicode string using utf-8 00:11:42 representing octets outside ASCII as %XX 00:11:44 I'd honestly be more inclined to latin-1, if only to completely cover the encoding space. 00:11:50 no, utf-8 00:11:52 tell it all to cxml calling its merge-uris the wrong way 00:12:16 firefox is smart and displays uris decoding them into unicode strings 00:12:22 a lisp uri library is useless if it doesn't do this en/decoding 00:12:28 but they're really (unsigned-byte 7) vectors 00:12:38 fe[nl]ix: it all depends on what you call a URI... 00:13:11 but yea, in general, URI libraries shouldn't do magic %-decoding for you 00:13:18 i remember that i've ended up rolling my own rather quickly in wui after staring at puri a few minutes... 00:13:36 most importantly because / is not the same as %2F 00:13:49 foom: exactly 00:13:52 nyef: I have the impression that you're correct 00:14:04 puri is Allegro's net.uri 00:14:10 which must have been very old code 00:14:11 Heh. Reminds me of my surprise when enter turned out to not be the same as ^M and tab not the same as ^I. 00:14:39 foom, so, a lisp uri can not store path parts in a list after proper % decoding? 00:15:06 attila_lendvai: sure, you could do that, if you also deal with ; not being the same as %3B 00:15:14 attila_lendvai: I'd guess that the correct order is to split on slashes -first-, then decode. 00:15:42 i as a user would omit any uri library that doesn't deal with % decoding in one way or another 00:15:45 I think you will be RFCly correct if you split on slashes, then split on ;, then decode. 00:16:03 %3f? 00:16:10 (was it 3f I'm thinking of?) 00:16:24 the main RFC even has a regexp that splits the uri into its 5 components :) 00:16:48 Doign that removes flexibility from an application, because it's allowed to treat certain specified other chars as special too, but you can ignore that reasonably safely. 00:17:47 (many people ignore that semicolon is a special separator within path components, too, even though the spec is clear that you shouldn't) 00:19:47 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:21:11 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:21:30 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:23:33 love [~love@c213-89-103-72.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 00:23:49 *nyef* looks disgustedly at package-data-list.lisp-expr. 00:24:56 TeMPOraL [~temporal@188.147.202.230.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has joined #lisp 00:25:56 slime used to be dead slow on it 00:26:18 that was a good stress test 00:27:53 -!- dullard [~user@93-96-113-8.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:28:11 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 00:28:56 -!- lukjad86 [~lukjadOO7@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:29:42 -!- davazp [~user@147.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:31:26 -!- slyrus__ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:36:27 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:45:23 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@130.166.209.9] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 00:52:23 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:55:10 nunb [~nundan@59.178.202.176] has joined #lisp 00:57:25 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:01:08 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-5-120.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 01:02:36 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-60-146.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:03:52 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 01:04:12 tsuru [~user@c-174-50-217-160.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:04:28 marioxcc [~user@200.92.23.113] has joined #lisp 01:04:54 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 01:05:00 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:07:42 Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-179-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:07:42 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-179-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:07:42 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 01:12:23 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:13:50 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:17:34 -!- TeMPOraL [~temporal@188.147.202.230.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:22:08 dnolen [~dnolen@pool-71-247-120-94.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:25:05 jleija [~jleija@adsl-91-4-114.chs.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:25:36 gz_ [~gz@160.sub-75-192-211.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 01:27:24 smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:27:29 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-xo.basistech.com] has joined #lisp 01:27:45 Jabberwock [~jens@port-92734.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 01:28:48 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [] 01:31:53 -!- Jabberwockey [~jens@port-1509.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:32:16 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 01:32:33 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 01:37:30 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 01:38:04 -!- jleija [~jleija@adsl-91-4-114.chs.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:40:19 -!- nunb [~nundan@59.178.202.176] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 01:40:53 nunb [~nundan@59.178.205.140] has joined #lisp 01:42:54 -!- pix4 [~pixel@212.60.130.33] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:50:37 -!- gz_ [Clozure@clozure-5E368AAE.sub-75-192-211.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout] 01:51:44 -!- gz_ [~gz@160.sub-75-192-211.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:54:30 gz_ [~gz@60.sub-75-239-225.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 01:57:51 -!- gz_ [~gz@60.sub-75-239-225.myvzw.com] has quit [Client Quit] 01:57:55 what is the reason why base-char-code-limit is 128 with sb-unicode? 01:58:21 easier upgrading to non-base-chars? 01:58:28 stassats: yes. 01:58:33 Essentially, yes. 01:58:56 Though not quite. 01:59:14 ... I think. 02:00:06 BTW, it might be interesting to reimplement SBCL's strings to use a 2-vector representation. 02:00:22 one for the lower 8 bits, a second for the upper 16 bits, if there exist any wide characters in the string 02:00:59 what are the benefits? 02:01:34 currently non-base-strings take 4 bytes per character. That's a terrible waste 02:03:13 wastage depends on the text 02:03:28 it's always a terrible waste, no matter what the text. 02:03:29 ideographics, for example, have a different efficiency characteristic. 02:03:34 foom: and that way it will take 3 bytes, what about non-locality? 02:03:46 -!- Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-flxuxiflcpiijent] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:03:55 just use utf8 everywhere 02:04:18 mle-lucca: yes, I agree. except the people who designed common-lisp didn't make a proper string abstraction. So you can't. 02:04:25 yeah, breaks indexing efficiency assumptions. 02:04:39 Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-yglrwuqomewhxblo] has joined #lisp 02:04:53 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@user-12hdsuc.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 02:04:56 Well you Can fix it all, but the result isn't CL anymore. sigh. 02:05:21 stassats: it will take either 1 or 3 bytes, depending, right. And w.r.t. the nonlocality...come on, really, in a language that uses cons cells up the wazoo? :) 02:05:45 The fundamental problem in this regard is characters. 02:05:54 Oh, god. Not this again. 02:05:56 i don't use cons cells when i don't need them 02:05:58 Get rid of characters and the problem becomes more tractable. 02:06:11 Zhivago: yes, but nobody is going to do that. 02:06:21 No. I think most people are. 02:06:27 Zhivago: in CL? I think not. 02:06:36 Look at python and javascrpt -- no character types. 02:06:51 Well, the nice thing about not using something is that it doesn't require changing the language. 02:07:02 Zhivago: okay, I don't really want to talk about this. But...they both royally screwed up their unicode support. 02:07:41 Well, the idea of characters is addictive, but at least they have a way out of the trap. 02:07:51 They're hardly better than CL. And they had the benefit of designing it after unicode existed! 02:08:40 Anyways, I just thought I'd mention that it might be interesting to try out alternative string representations. :) 02:09:41 My feeling is that the extra indirection to get the auxilliary vector would not be much of a slowdown, and is likely to be outweighed by the speedup of smaller strings. 02:10:17 Well, they actually do a better job because they can handle things like combining character sequences naturally. 02:10:44 kwinz3_ [~kwinz@85.125.182.62] has joined #lisp 02:11:07 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@89.135.196.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:11:54 drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-30.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:12:09 The main problem they didn't fix is that strings are still indexed by characters (*). 02:12:46 (*) ...kind of. Javascript actually uses utf-16 and pretends those are characters. And Python uses either utf-16 or utf-32 depending on compile-time options 02:13:17 Well, I'd say that the lack is more that they don't supply a native way to decompose strings otherwise. 02:13:59 If you could decompose a string into a head and a tail via a set of possible heads ... 02:14:53 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.125.182.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:17:36 Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 02:18:23 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 02:18:56 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:20:07 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:22:37 fusss [~chatzilla@li63-187.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 02:26:28 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:28:25 -!- BrianRice [~water@c-76-115-44-87.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:30:19 BrianRice [~water@c-76-115-44-87.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:31:21 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-188-2-22-192.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:32:15 ysph [~user@adsl-221-198-213.mgm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:34:25 -!- synthasee [~synthase@adsl-220-161-36.mob.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:34:48 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:35:02 -!- BrianRice [~water@c-76-115-44-87.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:37:51 -!- Soulman [~kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 02:38:00 BrianRice [~water@c-76-115-44-87.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:40:04 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 02:40:31 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 02:41:15 nicktastic [~nick@unaffiliated/nicktastic] has joined #lisp 02:41:33 tritchey [~tritchey@2002:62e2:51c2:0:226:bbff:fe00:80c6] has joined #lisp 02:42:32 -!- carlocci [~nes@93.37.216.209] has quit [Quit: eventually IE will rot and die] 02:44:25 -!- BrianRice [~water@c-76-115-44-87.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:44:26 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-xo.basistech.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:45:10 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@pool-71-247-120-94.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 02:45:37 -!- nunb [~nundan@59.178.205.140] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:45:56 -!- fihi09``` [~user@pool-96-224-39-41.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:46:23 BrianRice [~water@c-76-115-44-87.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:46:31 sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has joined #lisp 02:46:35 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:47:22 -!- smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:52:23 smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:52:31 nunb [~nundan@59.178.205.140] has joined #lisp 02:53:02 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 02:53:13 fihi09``` [~user@pool-96-224-39-41.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:55:46 -!- porcelina_ is now known as porcelina 02:58:19 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 03:02:38 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:02:42 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 03:03:09 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 03:04:09 -!- Madsy [~madman@fu/coder/madsy] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:08:50 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:10:25 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 03:12:10 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 03:12:12 palter_ [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:21b:63ff:fe96:e1ff] has joined #lisp 03:12:12 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:12:12 -!- palter_ is now known as palter 03:16:34 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:19:47 -!- pookleblinky [~pooklebli@cpe-67-252-140-159.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 03:22:27 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.42] has joined #lisp 03:23:27 reprore [~reprore@p4b1c8a.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:25:44 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@c-71-192-163-98.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:27:20 vng [~user@123.20.77.234] has joined #lisp 03:27:47 Good morning! 03:31:38 'mornin. 03:32:13 hello enthymeme 03:33:34 pookleblinky [~pooklebli@cpe-67-252-140-159.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:40:47 is there a predicate for reserved words? 03:41:10 reserved words in what sense? 03:41:57 i need to make sure my generated names do not conflict with CL "keywords" (in the lexical sense) and boundp'ed symbol names 03:42:22 (Are you looking, perhaps, for something based on find-symbol of symbol-name in the common-lisp package followed by an equality check?) 03:42:33 Umm... Just use uninterned names? 03:43:17 -!- pookleblinky [~pooklebli@cpe-67-252-140-159.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:43:27 uninterned names look horrible. right now i have a meta syntax that's 100% string based, but for sake of convenience i need to intern those into a package and give them sensible prefixes. 03:44:04 So... defpackage (:use), that is, a package that doesn't use any other packages? 03:44:16 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:45:06 that works 99% of the time, untile some jackass names his soap service Loop (bad example, but you get what i mean) 03:45:17 but you're right 03:45:37 -!- cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:46:47 pookleblinky [~pookle@cpe-67-252-140-159.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:50:33 foom: fwiw, larceny scheme uses the representation you suggest 03:50:52 (which you may or may not have known already...) 03:51:41 bipt [bpt@cpe-173-095-170-024.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:54:04 greetings. I have a question about using depth first search for generating hallways/mazes. (kind of long description bear with me) 03:54:24 Heh. I just realized that I'm headed towards a function called sb-genesis/genesis:genesis. 03:57:47 HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 03:57:56 I am generating hallways and mazes in my program. I am considering using something like dfs for traveling around a "matrix" in a somewhat orderly fashion to put a 0 (cant move here) or a 1 (part of the hall). I have a function called check_adjacents which takes a direction and based on that direction it adds or subtracts from the current coordinates to well, check adjacent rooms. Does this sound like a retarded approach? No, this is not homework this is me learnin 03:58:05 sorry for the long line 03:59:33 ... Why do I have the feeling that this leads to "dfs return path"? 03:59:43 Good morning! 03:59:47 Hello beach. 03:59:51 -!- stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-ldcynhsvgwsrufgi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:00:05 stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-eksdgwksnokamxmy] has joined #lisp 04:00:20 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-jriyziabpzanbsii] has joined #lisp 04:00:40 nyef: I can guarantee that I will not say that 04:00:54 because I have no idea what dfs return path is 04:01:00 but I am going to google it now 04:01:02 Pity, there are some rather clever approaches in that one paste... 04:01:08 limit to paste.lisp.org. 04:01:13 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:01:17 It was someone's homework problem. 04:01:38 ahh 04:01:47 I am 30 years old. 04:01:55 so more o a hobbyist problem 04:01:56 Sorry to hear that! 04:01:59 hahah 04:02:04 29 actually 04:02:07 close enough 04:02:28 I am going to have an AI walking through these halls though. 04:02:33 since I am reading paip 04:02:48 that is a ways off though. 04:03:28 I do not have a CS education or much programming experience so I use irc and wikipedia for this kind of stuff. 04:03:31 books too. 04:03:37 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@c-71-192-163-98.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has left #lisp 04:03:52 thanks nyef 04:04:49 hello beach 04:05:00 hmm, using mmap doesn't make reading much faster, i wonder if it's worth added complexity 04:06:57 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:07:03 stassats: You're not gaining much over the buffering already being done, are you? 04:07:22 And isn't there an mmap-file-stream or something like that in sb-simple-streams anyway? 04:09:01 i may gain by using sb-sys:sap-ref-16 instead of LDB 04:09:25 Mmm... Maybe a little. 04:12:45 Gah! Bloody recursive dependencies. 04:14:50 konr [~konrad@201.82.134.220] has joined #lisp 04:15:44 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@2002:62e2:51c2:0:226:bbff:fe00:80c6] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 04:16:46 -!- stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-eksdgwksnokamxmy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:16:53 stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-jtquonvqgobwdsnn] has joined #lisp 04:17:05 -!- p_l [plasek@gateway/shell/rootnode.net/x-tzpiijlmumsdeziv] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:17:29 chemical [~cacchio@118.69.71.131] has joined #lisp 04:19:13 -!- seangrov` [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:19:40 hmmm, i thought (defmethod foo ((type (eql "foo"))) ..) was enough to dispatch on a concrete string value that was EQL to "foo" 04:19:56 seangrov` [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:21:41 fusss: It is. 04:23:15 !list 04:23:19 Hrm... 04:23:26 chemical: ? 04:23:42 Well, I've manage to push the recursive dependency out a bit. It's now over three packages instead of two. 04:23:57 It's also gone midnight, so I think it's time for me to give up for the night. 04:24:15 G'night all. 04:24:18 -!- seangrov` [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:24:22 'night nyef 04:24:37 G9 nyef 04:25:17 beach: nether ccl nor sbcl 04:25:44 fusss: Of course, you have to make sure that they are really eql. Strings rarely are. 04:26:29 gaahhhh 04:26:31 of course 04:27:02 the best of intentions .. 04:28:40 back to CASE i guess .. or whatever was that library that had case with :test arguments 04:29:10 case uses eql as wel 04:29:37 whence the return to "that" library 04:29:51 *fusss* which is neither arnesi nor alexandria 04:29:52 -!- chemical [~cacchio@118.69.71.131] has left #lisp 04:30:27 -!- ysph [~user@adsl-221-198-213.mgm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:32:19 -!- bigjust [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:33:20 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:34:21 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:36:57 kqr [kqr@xkqr.org] has joined #lisp 04:37:23 how do i state explicitly the CR ascii character? is it #\Return or something else? 04:38:08 -!- stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-jtquonvqgobwdsnn] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:38:17 stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-gakklsywtpwzfbqt] has joined #lisp 04:39:05 kqr: I don't think the standard mentions ASCII at all. 04:39:14 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:39:27 kqr: it's safer to define +cr+ as #x0a or #x10 or whatever else it was 04:39:47 fusss: sounds good, thanks 04:40:03 kqr: kqr #\return will probably work in several implementations, though. 04:40:04 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:40:11 what's the + convention, by the way? 04:40:19 kqr: for all intents and purposes, you can get away with #\Return or #\Linefeed, but network protocols I just defconstant them 04:40:46 kqr: +constant+ *special-variable* %local-function, etc. 04:40:48 beach: it mentions ascii 04:40:53 clhs file-position 04:40:54 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_file_p.htm 04:40:57 for example here 04:40:59 i think i prefer to define them, so that i know for sure 04:41:00 adamvh [~adamvh@c-69-136-131-100.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:41:21 stassats: So it does. 04:42:18 stassats: And I read that page not very long ago. 04:42:25 kqr: you might also want to read up on read-byte, write-byte, read-sequence, write-sequence, and the :external-format argument for open/with-open and other stream functions that you can customize with '(unsigned-byte 8) :-) 04:42:44 -!- nunb [~nundan@59.178.205.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:42:51 hm, i'll see what i can find out 04:45:43 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-74-68-121-85.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:49:43 nunb [~nundan@122.162.1.134] has joined #lisp 04:50:56 fusss pasted "kcase: faste than googling" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97371 04:51:10 feedback on that thing please, specially variable capture 04:52:51 bug reporters receive the beneficial respects of the supreme government of kazakhastan!11 04:53:00 you can destructure in loop 04:53:03 Well, you probably want to prevent multiple evaluation of argument forms. 04:53:29 e.g., if key were (gensym) for some perverse reason. 04:54:41 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 04:55:01 amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 04:55:55 i am not sure what either of those comments mean, stassats and Zhivago, but will think about them later. cheers! 04:56:42 (loop for (car cadr) in list-of-car-and-cadr ...) 04:56:49 ubii [~ubii@207-119-123-149.stat.centurytel.net] has joined #lisp 04:56:53 Well, consider (defmacro x (y) `(progn ,y ,y)) (x (gensym)) 04:57:15 sorry, `(list ,y ,y) would be a better example 04:57:29 That doesn't simulate pass-by-value semantics that you would normally expect. 04:57:58 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:58:04 is there a function to convert a number to a char, apart from coerce? 04:58:15 clhs code-char 04:58:16 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_code_c.htm 04:58:24 Zhivago: i don't even wanna know how you would think up those corner cases :-P 04:58:33 (defmacro x (y) (let ((q (gensym))) `(let ((,q ,y)) (list ,q ,q)))) on the other hand, would. 04:58:35 thanks 04:58:49 stassats: i vaguely remember seeing that lately. cheers! 04:59:09 COERCE can't coerce an integer to a character 04:59:15 Well, it's not really a corner case -- consider (kcase (read) ...) 04:59:22 Zhivago: ok-p with-gensym 04:59:35 Anyhow, now that you're aware of it you can think of a sensible approach. 04:59:56 more like (when-let (input (read)) (kcase ..))) defensive programming .. 05:00:06 Zhivago: cheers! 05:01:45 slyrus__ [~slyrus@adsl-75-36-214-244.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:01:49 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:02:23 -!- Guthur [~Michael@host217-42-130-127.range217-42.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Computer says no] 05:04:13 pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.196.209] has joined #lisp 05:10:44 -!- konr [~konrad@201.82.134.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:13:29 -!- potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f665e40-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [] 05:13:37 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:18:57 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.92.23.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:19:08 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 05:20:04 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.199] has joined #lisp 05:25:18 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:29:13 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 05:30:05 vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has joined #lisp 05:32:00 potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f6632c8-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 05:35:59 -!- vng [~user@123.20.77.234] has quit [Quit: Move...] 05:41:35 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:44:21 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:44:55 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:45:52 adamvh_ [~adamvh@c-69-136-131-100.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:45:52 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@c-69-136-131-100.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:46:38 Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-182-71.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:46:55 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.40] has joined #lisp 05:47:43 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:51:44 -!- kqr [kqr@xkqr.org] has left #lisp 05:54:16 -!- maden [~maden@dsl-148-249.aei.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:57:07 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:57:33 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:58:38 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:05:18 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 06:12:03 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 06:12:22 -!- ve [~a@smith.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:14:07 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Client Quit] 06:14:25 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 06:15:01 mjsor [~mjsor@75-93-57-35.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has joined #lisp 06:15:04 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 06:18:30 ve [~a@smith.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 06:18:52 well, i have close to 120 strings I need to dispatch on and that little kcase macro now looks silly 06:19:03 anyway to guarantee string EQLness? 06:19:37 would a hashtable work? 06:19:49 Sure, with :test #'equal 06:20:00 perfect 06:20:49 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:24:37 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [] 06:25:07 -!- slyrus__ [~slyrus@adsl-75-36-214-244.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:25:08 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 06:27:01 hmmm, do i have to manually export autogenerated accessors from a library package? 06:31:32 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: g'night freenode.] 06:31:50 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:32:37 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-jriyziabpzanbsii] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:35:00 Call export on them upon generation. 06:35:09 -!- timlarson [~timlarson@cpe-24-93-193-199.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:35:40 timlarson [~timlarson@cpe-24-93-193-199.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:37:57 Hi, I was wondering what the preferred way to safely shutdown a long-running SBCL image is? I'm writing some deploy scripts, and want to shutdown the server, update the code, and start it back up again. Is it safe to just 'kill' the process? Or should I have SBCL periodically check for the existence of a 'shutdown file' (and, when detected, call 'quit' itself)? Or is there something else? 06:38:42 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 06:39:25 crimson13 [~Randy@d54C07576.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 06:40:05 smanek: depends on what sbcl is doing 06:40:30 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c-1bb4e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:40:35 mines run hunchentoot usually, and for that, yes, they check a shutdown flag and refuse to accept connections if it exists 06:41:35 fusss: I'm running a hunchentoot webapp and Elephant. I need the exit hooks to be run, so it can shut down it's connections to the database cleanly ... 06:41:58 if this is for postabon's hunchentoots, look at ACCEPT-CONNECTIONS' around method 06:42:45 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-9-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:43:00 smanek: wouldn't it be better to wrap elephant with-database macro (or whatever it has; with-transcation?) catch signals there and clean up 06:43:55 -!- daniel_ is now known as daniel 06:43:59 -!- timlarson [~timlarson@cpe-24-93-193-199.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:44:56 fusss: I'm not sure I understand ... SBCL automatically run the exit-hooks and unwind-protects on quit - doesn't it? If so, wouldn't that make it unnecesary for me to manually catch the signal 06:45:21 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:45:42 sbcl does that, yes, but you want to make a last-minute log entry when shutdown is underway 06:49:46 ASau` [~user@77.246.230.191] has joined #lisp 06:53:30 -!- mjsor [~mjsor@75-93-57-35.war.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Quit: mjsor] 06:54:59 -!- smanek [~smanek@cpe-98-14-140-77.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:56:32 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@user-12hdsuc.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: galaxywatcher] 07:01:48 konr [~konrad@201.82.134.220] has joined #lisp 07:05:32 aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:07:00 lharc [~shrek@88.131.67.194] has joined #lisp 07:08:54 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 07:10:55 Xantoz [~user@c-1bb4e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 07:11:59 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:15:31 -!- _macro [~macro@c-67-188-1-34.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:19:35 -!- Jabberwock [~jens@port-92734.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:20:37 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:22:52 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-bxaxzfvhatvuukzo] has joined #lisp 07:25:36 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:32:47 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 07:33:05 -!- derrida [~derrida@unaffiliated/deleuze] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2-dev] 07:41:50 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 07:43:46 varjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 07:43:51 -!- varjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has left #lisp 07:47:29 poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has joined #lisp 07:50:08 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:51:17 -!- Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:54:12 ndoillet [~user@salle202.emi.u-bordeaux1.fr] has joined #lisp 07:56:49 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 07:59:55 -!- HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:04:56 sunwukong [~vukung@business-80-99-161-225.business.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 08:05:18 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:06:22 ZabaQ [~john.conn@playboxgames.com] has joined #lisp 08:10:01 cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 08:13:24 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:13:40 good morning 08:15:23 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-9-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 08:16:52 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@li63-187.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:18:12 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-9-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:19:27 udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-fbawvzczkugqbtpl] has joined #lisp 08:26:05 -!- nunb [~nundan@122.162.1.134] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:27:31 Anyone on sbcl HEAD? 08:27:57 could you try cd tests && sh run-tests.sh dynamic-extent.impure.lisp and see if that fails for you too? 08:28:39 hello mvilleneuve 08:29:03 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-156-201-110.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: night] 08:32:08 -!- stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-gakklsywtpwzfbqt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:32:24 stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-uhkjgteitshabdei] has joined #lisp 08:32:38 Soulman [~kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 08:33:30 -!- stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-uhkjgteitshabdei] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:34:58 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 08:37:22 stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-slrzzdglhzhobipk] has joined #lisp 08:40:33 -!- bipt [bpt@cpe-173-095-170-024.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:41:40 amaron [~amaron@cable-188-2-22-192.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 08:44:41 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@252.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:48:12 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:51:14 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:54:43 stokachew [~adam@nat/redhat/x-owrbyicfqzudxbqf] has joined #lisp 08:54:43 -!- stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-slrzzdglhzhobipk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:55:10 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:55:11 Reaver1 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has joined #lisp 08:56:24 tcr: on 1.0.37.38 it succeed 08:56:55 ok must be my modifications then! thank you! 09:01:54 -!- reprore [~reprore@p4b1c8a.tokynt01.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:02:31 -!- bgs000 [57o9@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [K-Lined] 09:07:08 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-bxaxzfvhatvuukzo] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:08:03 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.40] has joined #lisp 09:10:00 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-fhwoxgwyvukanqjc] has joined #lisp 09:10:23 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:12:25 hello spiaggia 09:12:57 fisxoj [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban2.inka-online.net] has joined #lisp 09:12:58 spiaggia: do you have an idea about how long the next UFR council meeting is going to last? 09:16:52 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:23:00 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 09:27:33 orphee [~orphee@195.14.246.100] has joined #lisp 09:28:20 freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has joined #lisp 09:32:26 -!- ndoillet [~user@salle202.emi.u-bordeaux1.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:33:52 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 09:35:43 ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has joined #lisp 09:36:18 lukjad007 [~lukjadOO7@unaffiliated/lukjad007] has joined #lisp 09:36:21 -!- jao [~jao@83.43.35.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:37:41 mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has joined #lisp 09:39:07 reprore [~reprore@2002:7230:593d:6:21e:c2ff:feb4:2a5d] has joined #lisp 09:41:53 -!- stokachew [~adam@nat/redhat/x-owrbyicfqzudxbqf] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:42:10 stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-jzymtfujdfuvigmx] has joined #lisp 09:42:15 attila_lendvai [~ati@89.135.196.216] has joined #lisp 09:44:07 Levenson [~Levenson@91.185.12.110] has joined #lisp 09:45:49 dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:49:15 Krystof [~csr21@cpc2-dals3-0-0-cust104.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:50:14 -!- Xantoz [~user@c-1bb4e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has left #lisp 09:50:35 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:52:39 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has quit [Quit: -arividerchi] 09:53:41 Xantoz [~hejhej@c-1bb4e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 09:54:57 -!- dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:56:24 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 09:57:32 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 09:57:36 -!- Krystof [~csr21@cpc2-dals3-0-0-cust104.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:58:05 Krystof [~csr21@cpc2-dals3-0-0-cust104.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:58:06 Joreji [~thomas@77-20-0-213-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:59:50 hlavaty [~user@77-22-100-58-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 10:02:22 dmelani [~dmelani@c83-253-52-14.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 10:03:56 nunb [~nundan@59.178.204.11] has joined #lisp 10:05:12 -!- adamvh_ [~adamvh@c-69-136-131-100.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: adamvh_] 10:06:23 ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 10:08:21 -!- stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-jzymtfujdfuvigmx] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 10:09:41 -!- Krystof [~csr21@cpc2-dals3-0-0-cust104.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:10:27 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:10:36 Harag [~Harag@41.56.35.27] has joined #lisp 10:10:44 Krystof [~csr21@cpc2-dals3-0-0-cust104.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 10:10:57 -!- Reaver1 [~Joachim@212.88.117.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:10:58 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 10:12:54 Reaver1 [~Joachim@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 10:13:26 stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-szewfyycpaljmenx] has joined #lisp 10:14:03 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:14:40 adamvh [~adamvh@c-69-136-131-100.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:15:15 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-20-0-213-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:15:36 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 10:15:42 hoy 10:15:42 nikodemus, memo from tcr: there're some old comment by whn about dx'd functions in CONSTANTLY 10:16:05 tcr: sb-concurrency tests hang on darwin 10:16:46 well, spin, not hang 10:16:52 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-30.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.] 10:17:03 in mailbox.single-producer-single-consumer, i think 10:17:22 -!- cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 10:18:49 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:19:20 yes slyrus told me 10:20:36 aah, TIMED-JOIN-THREAD looks like the culrit 10:20:40 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 10:20:40 culrpit, even 10:20:42 the thing, that timed-join-thread uses with-timeout, so it should never hang unless it hangs in an disabled-interrupts-context of course :-) 10:23:12 i see a with-deadline there 10:23:26 Oh! :-) 10:23:29 -!- lukjad007 is now known as lukjad86 10:24:59 fusss [~chatzilla@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 10:25:21 -!- Levenson [~Levenson@91.185.12.110] has left #lisp 10:26:07 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:26:14 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 10:26:16 mvilleneuve: Not really. It is typically a 2h meeting. 10:28:32 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 10:28:58 jao [~jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:31:54 Joreji [~thomas@77-20-0-213-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 10:34:17 -!- saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: saikat] 10:34:30 jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has joined #lisp 10:34:48 nikodemus: in compiler-test-util.lisp; %assert-no-consing; why the < (- after before) times ` 10:35:03 why the comparasion with times? 10:36:27 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 10:40:33 dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:41:01 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B698.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:41:03 -!- Phoodus [foo@174-26-247-120.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:42:11 -!- lat_ [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 10:46:23 anyone know of a simple defclass wrapper I can look at? 10:46:39 shite, never mind, i wrote a year ago 10:48:03 tcr: don't know -- and not my code, i think 10:49:02 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:50:05 hrm seems like you just moved it there 10:52:00 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:52:04 yep, it used to live with dx tests 10:52:11 from alexey, i think 10:57:58 I'll ask on the mailing list if anyone wants to implement :timeout for get-mutex on #+sb-lutex; then we can easily have :timeout for join-thread, too 10:58:06 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75477e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:59:13 jsoft [~user@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 11:02:32 pix4 [~pixel@212.60.130.33] has joined #lisp 11:02:42 Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.161] has joined #lisp 11:06:47 -!- poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has quit [Quit: poet] 11:07:58 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:08:09 tcr: there's a patch on the mailing list for that, i'm pretty sure 11:08:09 -!- adamvh [~adamvh@c-69-136-131-100.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: adamvh] 11:08:30 and paul is cooking mach semaphore based stuff 11:08:35 afa [~afa@131.152.178.51] has joined #lisp 11:09:16 -!- m4thrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:09:38 tcr: re texinfo-docstrings, lichteblau took that and generalized docstring parsing into multiple backends IIRC. 11:09:47 nikodemus: "cooking". More like warming up very slowly (: 11:10:33 blitz_ [~blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has joined #lisp 11:12:35 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 11:15:33 <_8david`> starting working on it, but haven't quite finished it yet. still like the general approach though. 11:16:44 <_8david`> parse-docstrings.git has the code to parse CMUCL-style docstring syntax to CLOS; the remaining texinfo-docstrings was meant to turn the CLOS objects into texinfo syntax. 11:16:45 <_8david`> So in principle, the maintained-outside-of-the-function macro stuff we talked about could also be used to drive the texinfo generation instead of plain old docstrings. 11:17:07 <_8david`> IIRC the parse-docstrings.git is in a reasonably solid state, but the texinfo-docstrings.git side unfinished. 11:18:51 p_l [plasek@gateway/shell/rootnode.net/x-nzfjwkbvcsqqymul] has joined #lisp 11:21:41 _8david`: I thought the idea was for parse-docstrings to supersede texinfo-docstrings. Did I get that wrong? 11:22:54 m4thrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 11:23:24 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:24:42 <_8david`> well, parse-docstrings _plus_ the remaining texinfo-docstrings would ultimately supersede the old monolithic texinfo-docstrings. 11:25:34 -!- somecodehere [~ingvar@77-233-95-4.televork.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:28:33 slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0AFCC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:41:41 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban2.inka-online.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:41:44 freakrobot [~freakrobo@119.96.225.163] has joined #lisp 11:41:59 -!- freakrobot [~freakrobo@119.96.225.163] has left #lisp 11:43:28 G'morning all. 11:43:58 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:45:21 ... 'morning 11:46:50 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:47:27 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-20-0-213-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:48:51 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:51:24 Joreji [~thomas@77-20-0-213-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 11:52:47 Guthur [~Michael@host217-42-130-127.range217-42.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:55:45 HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 11:55:59 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:57:28 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 11:58:49 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:02:48 what would be: (concatenate 'symbol 'foo 'bar) 12:03:03 Frightening? 12:03:20 (I was unaware that SYMBOL was a sequence type.) 12:03:23 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 12:06:11 nyef: I thing I get it. I must go through strings and then intern the result. 12:07:06 levente_meszaros [~levente_m@4d6f5d3b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 12:07:56 lharc: there's an format-symbol and related utilities in alexandria 12:08:43 qebab [finnrobi@heidi.itea.ntnu.no] has joined #lisp 12:11:34 clhs find-symbol 12:11:34 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_find_s.htm 12:12:13 tritchey [~tritchey@2002:62e2:51c2:0:226:4aff:fe01:c6e] has joined #lisp 12:12:48 Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 12:13:09 so how can I track down minimal consing in my locally modified get-mutex (8bytes per run)? 12:13:14 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 12:13:53 tcr: "track down" in what sense? 12:14:26 (hint: the answer is probably going to involve a trace file.) 12:14:37 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 12:15:26 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 12:18:08 gz_ [~gz@111.sub-75-193-119.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 12:18:22 -!- Reaver1 [~Joachim@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:20:33 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 12:24:05 gz__ [~gz@122.sub-75-193-135.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 12:24:08 yay 5000 lines to wade through 12:24:25 Just watch for hits on pseudo-atomic. 12:25:10 -!- gz_ [Clozure@clozure-74D2F5A2.sub-75-193-119.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout] 12:26:46 -!- gz_ [~gz@111.sub-75-193-119.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:27:15 -!- gz__ [Clozure@clozure-602718A5.sub-75-193-135.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout] 12:27:25 -!- reprore [~reprore@2002:7230:593d:6:21e:c2ff:feb4:2a5d] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:28:49 -!- gz__ [~gz@122.sub-75-193-135.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:29:47 sie [~root@unaffiliated/sierinjs] has joined #lisp 12:30:09 How do I refresh asdf's registry? 12:30:30 it's not shiny enough? 12:32:06 synthasee [~synthase@adsl-220-161-36.mob.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 12:32:21 I made some changes to foo.asd, but it does what old .asd supposed to do. 12:33:19 you don't need to do anything, unless its location has changed 12:33:32 *sie* hmms. 12:33:44 bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has joined #lisp 12:34:05 Reload the .asd? 12:34:38 How.. 12:34:51 I'd use LOAD. 12:34:59 find-system reloads it 12:35:10 It does? 12:35:43 nyef: if it's newer, yes 12:35:52 egoz [~Egoz@fm-ip-118.137.33.233.fast.net.id] has joined #lisp 12:36:01 Hunh. Neat. 12:36:52 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@pub-nat.haaga-helia.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:37:55 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 12:38:14 -!- synthasee [~synthase@adsl-220-161-36.mob.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:42:05 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:46:04 maden [~maden@dsl-156-8.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 12:48:49 mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has joined #lisp 12:51:22 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:52:54 -!- kwinz3_ [~kwinz@85.125.182.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:52:59 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:53:03 minion: memo for _8david`: do you know of any SOAP/WSDL efforts in CL? 12:53:03 Remembered. I'll tell _8david` when he/she/it next speaks. 12:53:25 anyone know if there's an or operator for html-template's tmpl_if ? 12:55:01 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 12:55:51 maya [~maya@salle105.emi.u-bordeaux1.fr] has joined #lisp 12:56:09 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:56:13 -!- maya is now known as Guest56511 12:56:34 fusss: The worst of a WSDL is "just" xml-schema. 12:57:23 nyef: yeah, i got that sucker down, and most wsdl2foo type converters don't even respect XML Schema types 12:58:14 Heh. Typical. 12:58:15 wsdl2php is considered industrial by some, even included in PEAR, we use it at work .. and it uses a regex to parse operations in portTypes section 12:58:37 Clearly, it's -victorian- industrial. 12:59:03 clhs defpackage 12:59:03 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defpkg.htm 13:00:22 I wrote def-soap-type and def-soap-op; first is defclass-like, the second is defun-like, we can already grovel the wsdl for type information and i just need to tie it all together (I still haven't finalized the name case-preservation and lispification; I want to allow the user to register a "symbol-table" so name conversion is done under user control.) 13:01:03 udzinari` [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 13:01:10 rrice [~rrice@adsl-69-221-169-136.dsl.akrnoh.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 13:01:16 hi, i want to know if i can use thread with sbcl ? 13:01:26 Guest56511: yes, you can 13:01:36 Guest56511: yes, (find-package :sb-thread) 13:02:02 thx i'm going to test 13:02:04 Guest56511: but it's "better" to use the bordeaux-threads package, which is portable across nearly all Lisps 13:02:10 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-31-40.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 13:02:10 Guest56511: what platform are you on? 13:02:16 Linux 13:02:32 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:04:13 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-5-120.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:06:30 I've got a SIMPLE-ERROR: Not supported in unithread builds. 13:07:39 -!- sunwukong [~vukung@business-80-99-161-225.business.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:08:17 minion tell Guest56511 about clbuild 13:08:49 look at clbuild: clbuild is a shell script helping with 13:08:49 the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp 13:08:49 applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 13:10:00 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 13:10:07 I did (require 'test-sdl) and it said Couldn't load #P"/home/sierinjs/code/lisp/systems/test-sdl.asd": file doesn't exist. BUT IT'S THERE! :[ 13:10:22 ok 13:10:46 mishoo [~mishoo@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 13:10:58 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:11:08 hi folks 13:11:10 mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has joined #lisp 13:12:34 sie: is it a symlink? does it point to an existing file? 13:12:54 nie all 13:13:05 stassats`: That's a sym.. >_< thanks 13:13:53 udzinari: you might need to build sbcl with threads. for some reason the binary release is unithreaded (might have changed in recent builds) 13:14:17 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.161] has quit [Quit: Well, the machine might have gone down. Brb after a reboot.] 13:14:30 wvdschel [~wim@78-20-14-180.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 13:14:48 fusss: that was for Guest56511 I guess :) 13:15:53 carlocci [~nes@93.37.223.62] has joined #lisp 13:16:28 Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.161] has joined #lisp 13:18:02 any clbuild maintainers around? -- postmodern switched to GIT 13:18:34 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:19:08 adeht [~user@bzq-84-110-179-97.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 13:19:57 Can I defpackage in .asd? 13:20:15 sie: You can. It's even common in some cases. 13:22:03 -!- udzinari [~user@nat/ibm/x-fbawvzczkugqbtpl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:22:03 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 13:25:44 I've defpackage'd, but it still says The name "TEST-SDL" does not designate any package. What did I do wrong? 13:27:05 At a guess, you tried to use the TEST-SDL package before it was defined? 13:28:37 http://sprunge.us/EEcg Kind of no. I define it in package, use it in first. 13:30:15 Are you mixing up packages and systems? 13:30:53 Maybe. I don't really know the difference. ;-D 13:31:26 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-91-178.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:31:57 how to compile sbcl with clbuild ? 13:32:39 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:23 gigamonk` [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-23-82.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:35 sie: http://weitz.de/packages.html has some info about that 13:34:07 Guest56511: clbuild compile-implementation sbcl 13:35:19 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-155-194-54.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:38:27 tcr: my s3crit strategy for tracking down consing is to put a break in DEFUN ALLOCATION, and hit C-c C-c on the thing that should not cons 13:41:04 -!- nunb [~nundan@59.178.204.11] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:41:55 nunb [~nundan@59.178.202.227] has joined #lisp 13:42:06 mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:43:12 *nyef* sighs. 13:43:35 I've managed to break genesis, and I haven't figured out -how-. :-/ 13:43:38 -!- Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:45:53 Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 13:45:55 Ah. It's trying to treat a tagged value as untagged. Or it's managed to convert an integer to :external. 13:46:48 felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has joined #lisp 13:47:48 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:51:07 when I run my new sbcl I get : can't load .core for different runtime, sorry 13:51:39 Guest56511: Even running through clbuild? 13:52:01 a how ? 13:52:48 . 13:54:50 ... How on earth do I get 0 untagged slots for sb!c::compiled-debug-fun the first time... and 8589983161 untagged slots the second time? 13:57:06 Guest56511: read the file INSTALL 13:57:06 synthase [~synthase@adsl-220-161-36.mob.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 13:57:33 Guest56511: particularly section 1.2 13:57:54 -!- Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:57:57 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 13:58:57 Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 13:59:15 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-fhwoxgwyvukanqjc] has left #lisp 14:00:18 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 14:00:59 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-23-82.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:01:20 kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.125.182.62] has joined #lisp 14:01:58 -!- synthase [~synthase@adsl-220-161-36.mob.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:04:24 trying to pass a vector of 16 reals to opengl's glMultMatrixf. I get: the value #(0.0 ...) is not of type sb-sys:system-area-pointer. Is that cffi related? 14:04:44 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-xo.basistech.com] has joined #lisp 14:05:47 bytecolor: where'd you get 16 *reals*? 14:06:09 well, single-float or double-float 14:06:29 jdz: REAL means (AND NUMBER (NOT COMPLEX)) in CL, unfortunately. :-/ 14:06:30 bytecolor: you know gl*f will accept only single-float, don't you? 14:06:32 -!- Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:06:47 hrm... 14:06:57 lemme try *d 14:07:08 bytecolor: that's besides your passing arrays around 14:07:31 bytecolor: lisp vector is not a C array 14:07:51 nod, I'm looking at the cl gl source now 14:07:54 bytecolor: and yes, it is CFFI related 14:07:55 Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 14:08:32 (defcfun ("glMultMatrixf" glMultMatrixf) :void (m :pointer)) 14:08:47 how am i supposed to output large quantities of text in mcclim? 14:09:27 so, I guess the question is how to convert a cl vector to a C array 14:09:36 synthase [~synthase@adsl-220-161-36.mob.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:09:44 bytecolor: i seem to remember seeing some talk about getting the pointer of _typed_ array contents with CFFI 14:10:18 -!- synthase [~synthase@adsl-220-161-36.mob.bellsouth.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:10:20 _3b: herep? 14:10:22 gz_ [~gz@122.sub-75-193-135.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 14:10:32 synthase [~synthase@adsl-220-161-36.mob.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:10:50 by typed you mean I'd have to create the array: (make-array 16 (element-type 'single-float) ...) 14:11:00 -!- gigamonk` [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-23-82.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:11:12 bytecolor: what are you using? cl-opengl or cl-sdl? 14:11:18 bytecolor: yes 14:11:25 Hrm. Looks like the number of untagged slots got stomped with a function pointer...? 14:11:47 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:11:51 -!- gz_ [~gz@122.sub-75-193-135.myvzw.com] has left #lisp 14:12:11 lispbuilder-sdl 14:12:40 dnolen [~dnolen@69.38.240.242] has joined #lisp 14:13:34 bytecolor: i think i saw example code of how to use array-based gl functions in examples 14:14:00 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:14:03 mh? 14:14:38 -!- tompa [~tompa@h59ec27fb.sehjjak.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 14:14:55 *stassats`* oscillated to the hate phase of the [mc]clim relationship 14:15:28 stassats`: See if you can get to apathy? 14:15:29 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:16:37 there are only two examples with lispbuilder; gears, and simple two triangle func 14:17:00 i'm more thinking of moving to commonqt, but then i like clim ideas, oh well 14:17:43 tompa [~tompa@h59ec27fb.sehjjak.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #lisp 14:17:45 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:17:46 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:17:50 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:18:18 -!- benny [~benny@i577A1907.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:18:26 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:18:52 Is there a wget able location for sbcl? 14:19:27 Guthur: sure, look on www.sbcl.org, there are links to sourceforge. 14:19:59 tcr: would a lexical assert-no-consing declaration be useful? 14:20:39 pkhuong: Would be useful for other things as well, I'd imagine. 14:20:58 pkhuong: probably 14:21:09 pkhuong: For more fun, make it valid in a toplevel LOCALLY. 14:21:11 It wouldn't be too hard to barf during ir2->asm. 14:22:19 just make sure ALLOCATION has access to the node 14:23:19 setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:25:51 -!- egoz [~Egoz@fm-ip-118.137.33.233.fast.net.id] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:30:33 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 14:31:21 ikki [~ikki@201.155.75.146] has joined #lisp 14:36:02 jdz: I found cffi::with-foreign-object, seems to work 14:37:23 pkhuong: we could make allocation emit compiler notes when space > [something] 14:37:24 jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-48-37.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:38:20 I'd definitely like to see the full-on error under some policies, though. 14:38:56 (defun really-fast (...) (declare (assert no-heap-allocation no-full-calls no-generic-arithmetic)) ...) 14:39:47 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B698.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:39:58 s/really-fast/garbage-collector/ 14:40:07 somecodehere [~ingvar@16.198.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 14:40:49 _macro [~macro@c-67-188-1-34.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:41:16 nikodemus: I think allegro also has an atomically macro, which rewrites things like INCF in its body to atomic variants (and barfs if it can't) 14:41:19 I don't remember the detail 14:41:50 we could have a QUICKLY and a COMPACTLY 14:42:06 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:47:17 -!- crimson13 [~Randy@d54C07576.access.telenet.be] has left #lisp 14:48:17 *nyef* suddenly realized which package STRUCTURE-OBJECT comes from. 14:48:29 -!- vu3rdd [~vu3rdd@164.164.250.10] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:48:44 Still getting weird corruption of layout definitions, though. :-/ 14:49:15 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-xo.basistech.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:49:41 -!- Krystof [~csr21@cpc2-dals3-0-0-cust104.hari.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:53:05 saikat_ [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:54:47 -!- ASau` [~user@77.246.230.191] has quit [Quit: off] 14:55:21 Is there a way to execute a system command in lisp? 14:55:32 not portably 14:55:36 (I want to run acroread via lisp) 14:55:47 I'm beginning to dislike the typical usage of CLOS GF's -- methods scattered both textually and class-hierarchically.. 14:55:57 Your first mistake is using acroread instead of a decent pdf viewer. 14:56:02 there's always some implementation-specific way to run other commands 14:56:03 for linux, what can be done? 14:56:25 on sbcl, you use sb-ext:run-command 14:56:36 thx 14:56:36 ... Wasn't it sb-ext:run-program? 14:56:37 run-program, rather 14:56:45 run-program. thanks 14:56:57 I knew something looked wrong about that :p 14:58:05 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 14:58:11 stassats, you might be somewhat relieved to know that beach has awareness about CLIMII's shortcomings and has plans for a trimmed CLIMIII 14:58:48 Although this project seems to currently be on the backburner. 14:58:57 deepfire: that doesn't relieve me a bit, and i'm aware of that 14:59:09 pkhuong: Yes!! 14:59:38 I'd also like if the compiler would emit notes when emits alloc-bignum stuff 14:59:45 cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 15:00:37 -!- sie [~root@unaffiliated/sierinjs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:00:53 tcr: it usually does that already 15:00:55 kpreid [~kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 15:02:08 Not the last time :-) 15:02:21 *deepfire* currently wrestles with the ECL's ASDF:MAKE-BUILD puzzle 15:02:31 hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-11-45-244.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 15:02:44 tcr: hm, odd. what was the code like? 15:03:51 fisxoj [~fisxoj@80.153.54.206] has joined #lisp 15:03:54 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:04:01 -!- jdz [~jdz@85.254.211.133] has quit [Quit: Boot me gently] 15:04:27 I can't remember... maybe I was tricked by a macro expanding to local optimize declarations 15:06:33 -!- Guest56511 [~maya@salle105.emi.u-bordeaux1.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 15:09:59 what's the file again that contains the tag bits layout? 15:11:03 generic/primobj.lisp or something 15:11:24 generic/early-objdef 15:15:07 zhabba [~zhabba@92.55.60.69] has joined #lisp 15:15:15 moah [~gnu@dslb-188-101-028-187.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:16:56 breaking into alloc, I'm inspecting the TN that's supposed to be alloced 15:17:13 is there a way to get any source-related information from that TN 15:17:32 tcr: the mailbox tests have lambda like thi: (lambda (x) (return x)) 15:18:14 -!- _macro [~macro@c-67-188-1-34.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:18:17 ...without a surrounding (BLOCK NIL ...), that is 15:18:22 LOOP 15:18:49 I also tried to use CATCH+THROW instead but that was dog slow 15:19:05 oh, i see 15:19:30 Gah! Forgot -one- sb!kernel: prefix. 15:20:24 (Watching genesis allocate a single word for a layout was a bit of a tipoff.) 15:23:26 bah, cll is debating uninterned symbols vs. keywords in package definitions. at this point I usually start wondering how hard would it be to make a PACKAGE-DEFINITION source class for ASDF, where the only difference from regular source is that it's read in a temporary package 15:23:51 so you can use regular symbols and never worry 15:24:12 i like my irregular symbols 15:24:30 cmm: Interesting idea. How well would it combine with files that start with a defpackage and in-package, then go on to do their own thing? 15:24:51 cmm: don't bother, they'll just find some other banal minutiae to bicker over 15:24:53 (I think I even had such a class for some earlier version of asdf, only it broke very quickly and I abandoned the idea) 15:25:23 nyef: no harm done, is there? 15:25:36 cmm, better call them noninterning-source-file -- by function, not by policy 15:25:39 (I'm very rusty right now) 15:25:46 SBCL's IR2 code seems much more polished than IR1 :-) 15:26:04 hefner: true, true 15:26:05 heh, that's only because IR2 doesn't do very much code frobbing 15:26:11 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B698.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:26:31 is c.l.l useful for anyone? 15:26:33 cmm: I'd characterize it as "consensus vs. ron garrett" 15:26:39 p_l: Yes, I love it. 15:26:57 Xach: for practical reasons or hilarity> 15:26:58 Xach: in a word, "c.l.l.". or three words 15:26:59 ? 15:27:00 -!- orphee [~orphee@195.14.246.100] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 22.1.1] 15:27:06 p_l: yes 15:28:32 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has quit [Quit: -arividerchi] 15:28:49 jmbr [~jmbr@252.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 15:29:09 -!- aerique [euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 15:29:26 nikodemus pasted "something funny on darwin with sb-concurrency" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97388 15:30:14 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-89-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:30:23 ooh, perhaps ASDF should read every lisp file in its own temporary package (unless explicitly instructed otherwise). will quickly weed out those delinquents that don't start with (IN-PACKAGE ...) :) 15:31:16 nikodemus: huh 15:32:25 where are the threads stuck? 15:33:16 nikodemus: related to that question: http://paste.lisp.org/display/97347 15:36:37 tcr: dunno (can't frob the installation right now) 15:38:21 -!- pix4 [~pixel@212.60.130.33] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:39:01 tcr pasted "tracking the consing," at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97389 15:39:48 so the trace line shows that it wants to alloc 8 bytes (exactly as assert-no-consing reported to me), and it's a lowtag of 7 on x86-32 so an other-pointer 15:39:57 -!- potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f6632c8-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:40:12 the backtrace shows it wants to allocate a value-cell somewhere involving %futex-wait 15:40:33 Heh. My guess was actually boxing a SAP, but a value-cell would work. 15:40:43 mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:41:05 value-cell is a general heap-allocated box? 15:41:07 -!- mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 15:41:29 not necessarily heap-allocated, it seems 15:41:29 It's for closures. 15:41:36 leo2007 [~leo@smaug.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:41:57 -!- somecodehere [~ingvar@16.198.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:41:57 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@193.206.22.97] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:41:57 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:41:57 -!- Guthur [~Michael@host217-42-130-127.range217-42.btcentralplus.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:41:57 -!- p_l [plasek@gateway/shell/rootnode.net/x-nzfjwkbvcsqqymul] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:41:57 -!- stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-szewfyycpaljmenx] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:41:57 -!- pookleblinky [~pookle@cpe-67-252-140-159.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:41:57 -!- Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-yglrwuqomewhxblo] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:41:57 -!- kvsari [~kvsari@203.171.93.21.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:41:57 -!- Dodek [dodek@wikipedia/Dodek] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:41:57 -!- rotty [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:41:58 -!- franki^ [~franki@unaffiliated/franki] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:41:58 -!- billitch [~billitch@2a01:e35:8b7c:5ce0:223:54ff:fe7c:a524] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:41:58 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:41:58 -!- christoph_debian [~christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:41:58 -!- thijso [~thijs@83.98.233.115] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:41:58 -!- johs [~johs@hawk.netfonds.no] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:42:10 closurs and load-time-value, anything else? 15:42:38 ... load-time-value? Really? 15:42:50 mishoo [~mishoo@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 15:42:50 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 15:42:50 Guthur [~Michael@host217-42-130-127.range217-42.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 15:42:50 p_l [plasek@gateway/shell/rootnode.net/x-nzfjwkbvcsqqymul] has joined #lisp 15:42:50 stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-szewfyycpaljmenx] has joined #lisp 15:42:50 pookleblinky [~pookle@cpe-67-252-140-159.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:42:50 Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-yglrwuqomewhxblo] has joined #lisp 15:42:50 billitch [~billitch@2a01:e35:8b7c:5ce0:223:54ff:fe7c:a524] has joined #lisp 15:42:50 kvsari [~kvsari@203.171.93.21.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has joined #lisp 15:42:50 Dodek [dodek@wikipedia/Dodek] has joined #lisp 15:42:50 rotty [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has joined #lisp 15:42:50 franki^ [~franki@unaffiliated/franki] has joined #lisp 15:42:50 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 15:42:50 christoph_debian [~christoph@cl-1281.dus-01.de.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 15:42:50 thijso [~thijs@83.98.233.115] has joined #lisp 15:42:50 johs [~johs@hawk.netfonds.no] has joined #lisp 15:43:04 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:43:14 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:43:16 Phoodus [foo@174-26-247-120.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:44:15 Damn. I finally get genesis to dump a core again, and it doesn't survive cold-init. :-/ 15:44:28 potatishandlarn [~potatisha@c-4f6632c8-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 15:47:03 -!- leo2007 [~leo@smaug.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.0.60.1] 15:48:03 tcr: closures, return-from extent checking, and yes, still load-time-value 15:48:38 ltv needs them unless read-only is true, to stop the compiler from complaining about modifying constants 15:51:31 nikodemus: thanks for the package deadlock fix! building now.. 15:51:48 egoz [~Egoz@202.70.51.239] has joined #lisp 15:52:28 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:53:26 -!- bozhidar [~user@212.50.14.187] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:54:25 pix4 [~pixel@212.60.130.33] has joined #lisp 15:54:50 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:55:49 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:57:58 tcr: i think i see the problem 15:58:07 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 15:58:13 -!- HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:58:45 no, wait 15:58:56 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Client Quit] 15:59:08 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 16:03:14 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 16:03:33 syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.180.146] has joined #lisp 16:03:51 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 16:04:28 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-24-82-64-151-19.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:05:41 hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@adsl-162-155-204.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:05:50 Oh I remember I forgot to remove (:condition-wait :wait-multiple) when I comitted your condition-wait fix 16:07:01 -!- dcibiel [~dcibiel@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:09:22 hmph, now i'm getting heap corruption from the mailbox test 16:09:25 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 16:09:36 (bogus wp violations, that is) 16:10:23 what does your current mental model say? 16:10:54 it says that threading on darwin sucks 16:11:13 s/threading on// 16:11:53 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 16:14:58 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 16:17:15 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-36-82-251-26-123.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:39 ... Looks like the packages are being created, but the symbols aren't having their home packages set? 16:23:05 b 16:23:11 bah, wrong window 16:23:51 -!- jao [~jao@74.Red-80-24-4.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:24:16 enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-252-170-201.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:24:35 ldb? 16:24:44 More likely emacs, to change buffers. 16:26:44 galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@user-12hdsuc.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 16:27:24 tcr: i'm inclined to either disable the failing tests or mailboxes on darwin 16:27:29 lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 16:28:57 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:29:12 nikodemus: what happens if you tweak the number of messages, #of concurrent threads? 16:30:37 -!- xinming [~hyy@125.109.241.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:30:57 Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 16:32:08 xinming [~hyy@125.109.255.108] has joined #lisp 16:32:45 no idea, i already ran out of time to spend on this today :/ 16:33:27 amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 16:36:34 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 16:39:37 Krystof [~csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:42:04 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:43:58 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 16:45:19 benny [~benny@i577A7322.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:46:41 _macro [~macro@shiva.mochimedia.net] has joined #lisp 16:48:04 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:49:00 smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:49:49 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@252.33.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:50:36 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has joined #lisp 16:53:24 TeMPOraL [~temporal@wifi-wpa.agh.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 16:53:34 bipt [bpt@cpe-173-095-170-024.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:53:51 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 16:55:13 alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 16:55:37 milanj [~milan@93.86.188.185] has joined #lisp 16:56:11 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-89-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:58:51 marioxcc [~user@200.92.23.113] has joined #lisp 16:59:46 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:00:02 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-156-201-110.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:17 slyrus__ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 17:04:11 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:05:36 mishoo [~mishoo@host102-108-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:05:52 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 17:05:56 Jarvellis [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 17:06:10 -!- Elench [~jarv@unaffiliated/elench] has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:06:14 -!- Jarvellis is now known as Elench 17:06:41 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@80.153.54.206] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:10:41 -!- galaxywatcher [~galaxywat@user-12hdsuc.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: galaxywatcher] 17:13:33 galaxywatcher_ [~galaxywat@user-12hdsuc.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 17:15:21 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:16:17 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.180.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:17:07 mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:21:41 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:27:55 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 17:27:57 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@playboxgames.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:30:39 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@host102-108-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:34:26 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:34:38 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:37:11 -!- hlavaty [~user@77-22-100-58-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:37:40 fisxoj [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban1.inka-online.net] has joined #lisp 17:40:35 Hezy [~Hezy@62.56.254.183] has joined #lisp 17:41:19 magius_pendragon [~alokbaika@nom27250d.nomadic.ncsu.edu] has joined #lisp 17:42:16 I'm trying to launch a sbcl process from inside a script. Anyone know where the output from a thread goes? 17:43:06 That's a bit... vaguely specified. 17:43:18 However, I'd check *standard-output*. 17:43:55 and don't forget to flush your buffers. 17:44:30 hefner: buffers are being flushed. It works inside slime, but I don't have swank to set *globally-redirect-io* 17:45:09 Fare [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 17:45:20 hum. Any windows lisp user around? 17:45:31 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@89-178-182-71.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 17:45:47 what are the host / device for various pathnames like C:\windows\foo.exe ? 17:45:48 magius_pendragon: I don't recall output from threads going anywhere unexpected, but if it is, you can always be explicit about what stream you want to write to by stashing *standard-output* somewhere before you start the threads. 17:46:17 if it works with slime but without using global io redirection... sounds bogus 17:46:18 (which is how I usually do output in threads within SLIME, too) 17:46:30 -!- egoz [~Egoz@202.70.51.239] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:46:30 Fare: I'd expect that to vary considerably by implementation. 17:46:45 tcr: it works if I set globally redirect io in slime, but I don't have swank in the script I'm trying to run, so I can't set it inside 17:47:08 nyef, exactly. 17:47:20 magius_pendragon: slime has a background thread which flushes the buffer periodically; I'd guess like hefner that it's a flushing problem in your script 17:47:37 I need to have some kind of magic translation function to handle these cases in the ASDF output translations facility 17:47:46 tcr: I know that each thread calls finish-output after printing 17:47:51 which currently works great on unix, but... 17:48:01 <_8david`> Fare: IIRC c: is the device on allegro, but the host on lispworks 17:48:01 _8david`, memo from fusss: do you know of any SOAP/WSDL efforts in CL? 17:48:06 mishoo [~mishoo@host102-108-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:48:10 _8david`, wonderful! 17:48:28 what's the host on allegro? :unspecific ? 17:48:39 (and the device on lispworks?) 17:48:41 <_8david`> let me check... it's nil 17:49:00 hours of fun ahead! 17:49:01 <_8david`> don't have lispworks around, sorry. My recollection stems from 2003 when I needed something similar in cxml. 17:49:48 and of course, host can be a list of strings... or on some non-compliant implementations, anything! 17:51:37 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 17:52:12 rares [~rares@174-26-92-226.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:20 tcr: is there another way to fix it? 17:57:04 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-xo.basistech.com] has joined #lisp 18:00:39 uhm, while we're on the subject i was having trouble flushing buffers. 18:01:42 i just did something like (run-external "wc") and then sent stuff to it and tried (finish) and (force) but i couldn't get a response back until i closed the stream, and then i got all of the responses back at once. 18:01:43 Ogedei [~user@e178214104.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:02:04 porcelina: wc buffers too. 18:02:15 -_-; doh 18:02:17 is there a standard way to have format ~x use upper-case A-F? 18:02:47 Ogedei: I don't know, but did you see you got props in that sitegrinder app? 18:03:38 Xach: nope. link? 18:04:25 http://xach.livejournal.com/246367.html 18:05:07 porcelina: wc won't buffer if its stdin is a tty. 18:05:23 er, wait, sorry, wc, not cat. 18:05:27 nevermind what I just said. :) 18:05:33 that's a reasonably cool-sounding thing 18:05:39 (the sitegrinder thingy) 18:05:51 How can it be news to you, faithful Planet Lisp reader? 18:06:35 Xach: nice! i even saw the post before, but didn't read through the image (neither did google alerts) 18:06:38 Ogedei: (format t "~:@(~x~)" #xdeadbeef) 18:07:20 *rsynnott* is overwhelmed with RSS feeds, these days 18:07:56 gigamonkey: that works. once day, when I have nothing to do, I'll try to figure out why and how. thanks! 18:08:24 ~:@ is the generic 'upcase everthing in the parens' directive. 18:08:40 Or rather ~:@( is. 18:09:02 It also looks like a sad pig with mohawk. For whatever mnemonic value that has. 18:09:39 sounds like one of the two guys from andromeda. 18:13:11 if it's not finish-output, what should I do to get the output of threads in the terminal 18:14:44 daniel__ [~daniel@p5082BEF5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:15:01 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 18:15:13 verify that output from the foreground thread is visible, first. verify that the threads are actually running and trying to print. verify they are printing to the stream you intend them to. 18:16:11 hefner: I'm getting output from the requires, so i assume foreground thread is visible. Threads are running, because the rest of the effect happens. Last one is why I hopped on irc, but i'm just doing format t, and then finish-output 18:17:33 okay, but did you do what I said? I have no idea why this would not Just Work, but (eq *standard-output* *standard-output-in-foreground-thread*) is an important sanity check. 18:17:58 hefner: I didn't do it because I have no clue what you said 18:18:01 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082DF06.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:18:09 Edward [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-76-145.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:18:17 Fare: ping 18:25:00 Jabberwockey [~jens@port-91506.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 18:26:22 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 18:26:28 schoppenhauer [~css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 18:26:34 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 18:27:28 bgs000 [57o9@57o9.org] has joined #lisp 18:27:34 -!- wvdschel [~wim@78-20-14-180.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:27:54 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:28:07 wvdschel [~wim@78-20-14-180.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 18:28:23 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.79.90] has joined #lisp 18:28:28 -!- Guthur [~Michael@host217-42-130-127.range217-42.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:29:58 jao [~jao@83.43.35.213] has joined #lisp 18:34:58 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:35:14 -!- magius_pendragon [~alokbaika@nom27250d.nomadic.ncsu.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:38:51 pong 18:40:16 -!- Hezy [~Hezy@62.56.254.183] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 18:40:26 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-208-87.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:40:44 -!- afa [~afa@131.152.178.51] has quit [Quit: afa] 18:43:28 fe[nl]ix pasted "restricted CL file component for ASDF" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97404 18:44:30 Fare: ^^ 18:45:06 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:45:26 fe[nl]ix, what's the point of it? 18:45:42 to make sure files start with in-package ? 18:45:46 enforce in-package discipline 18:45:47 yes 18:46:07 mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has joined #lisp 18:46:14 hum. Sounds good -- but couldn't it be an asdf contrib instead? 18:46:24 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:46:27 IMO that should be the default 18:46:34 not that asdf currently possesses a contrib system. 18:46:43 contribs are bad 18:46:45 I kind of agree 18:46:58 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:47:00 but I kind of want backwards compatibility in asdf. 18:47:01 somecodehere [~ingvar@16.198.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 18:47:10 and I kind of want to encourage innovation in xcvb. 18:47:24 not that xcvb current has anything like a good story for extension :( 18:47:40 I'm wondering if sheeple can help here 18:49:01 francogrex [~user@238.35-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 18:50:55 Hi, I want to ask a few very basic questions about web applications (not only CL related) 18:52:06 sammcd [~sammcd@128.163.241.186] has joined #lisp 18:52:22 I see pages like this one: http://statpages.org/bayecred.html where the person can intercat with a program through a web page 18:53:16 I assume naively that there is a computer always "on" and running the software-application 18:53:58 it's just hidden and receives inout from users and responds 18:54:03 no, it takes its information from ether 18:54:12 stassats`: Ah, it uses ether-net? 18:54:23 nyef: exactly! 18:54:28 there are however sort of stand-alone web-pages 18:54:44 fe[nl]ix, can you report an asdf bug on launchpad? 18:54:46 -!- somecodehere [~ingvar@16.198.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:55:04 francogrex: the program is embedded in the web page and interpreted by the browser. 18:55:11 where you can download the whole thing and run it on your pc without internet connection always on 18:55:23 francogrex: the web server's role stops after it sends the html and embedded program to the browser. 18:55:28 francogrex: html5 is what youre looking for :) 18:55:51 lnostdal [~lnostdal@200.80-202-59.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 18:55:53 Xach: madnificent ok I see; I want to do the same with CL 18:56:02 francogrex: you mean interactive sites which you can use locally without a network connection, right? Or did I misinterpret that? 18:56:17 Fare: ok 18:56:20 thanks 18:56:34 francogrex: well, you can sort-of do it in parenscript. It is javascript + html5. If you want to write a common lisp on top of javascript, then you can do it in CL. 18:56:57 madnificent: yes would like to set up a server myself that users in my laboratory can at distance access and use it: 18:57:01 francogrex: fwiw, I want a CL like thing written in JS :) 18:57:01 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-20-0-213-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:57:08 I found this in my search: kpax.tar.gz 18:57:09 I'd say it's not on my radar for asdf 2, but I'd happily include it as a contrib in 2.1, and maybe others will vote it up 18:57:21 -!- sammcd [~sammcd@128.163.241.186] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 18:57:33 minion: please tell francogrex about hunchentoot 18:57:33 francogrex: please see hunchentoot: Hunchentoot is a web server written in Common Lisp and at the same time a toolkit for building dynamic websites. http://www.cliki.net/hunchentoot 18:57:34 sammcd [~sammcd@128.163.241.186] has joined #lisp 18:57:35 francogrex: ##lispweb can be used for framework related things, the topic of the channel has some of them 18:57:46 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:57:46 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:57:54 amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 18:57:55 -!- bgs000 [57o9@57o9.org] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:58:15 ok I will go there then, i hope there are people active 18:58:19 francogrex: hunchentoot is a webserver. I'd be happy to get you started on some stuff if you want to write web apps in lisp (regardless of which framework you want to use) 18:58:26 bgs000 [57o9@57o9.org] has joined #lisp 18:58:35 madnificent: would be absolutely great 18:58:37 francogrex: no, they are not... :( But we need more people! 18:58:51 r you on ##lispweb 18:58:58 ? maybe we can take it there 18:59:00 certainly 19:02:53 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:03:10 amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 19:03:46 -!- hefner [~hefner@ppp-58-11-45-244.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: meh] 19:05:04 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 19:06:18 -!- Deesl is now known as bsdboy 19:09:26 fhc [~fhc@c-71-227-234-97.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:10:40 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:10:47 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:10:48 -!- bsdboy is now known as Deesl 19:10:54 varjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:10:56 -!- varjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has left #lisp 19:11:05 -!- fhc [~fhc@c-71-227-234-97.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:12:46 -!- gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-23-82.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:12:54 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-76-254-23-82.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:14:15 gz_ [~gz@173-124-24-53.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 19:15:38 -!- gz_ [~gz@173-124-24-53.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:16:14 gz_ [~gz@173-124-24-53.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 19:19:57 -!- sammcd [~sammcd@128.163.241.186] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:20:36 Guthur [~Michael@host86-132-122-232.range86-132.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:20:55 -!- stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-szewfyycpaljmenx] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:21:07 Riqpe [riqpe@pingtimeout.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:11 stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-tirwpdpkfqguodqi] has joined #lisp 19:22:16 -!- TeMPOraL [~temporal@wifi-wpa.agh.edu.pl] has quit [Quit: .•«UPP»•.] 19:22:52 -!- hadronzoo [~hadronzoo@adsl-162-155-204.rmo.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: hadronzoo] 19:27:27 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:31:19 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@208.78.149.14] has quit [Quit: mattrepl] 19:32:35 -!- Edward [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-76-145.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:32:45 bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 19:34:16 is there a way to see when a page was changed for the last time on cliki ? 19:34:45 no easy way 19:35:18 ;_; okay 19:35:30 non-easy: http://www.cliki.net/Recent%20Changes 19:36:02 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:36:17 stassats`: yeah, I thought about that 19:36:35 actually, there's an easy way: just mouse over on Revision number 19:36:49 ah LoL, I never saw that 19:37:00 i just discovered that 19:37:37 tmh [~user@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 19:37:44 Greetings lispers. 19:39:39 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 19:40:40 -!- nunb [~nundan@59.178.202.227] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:41:20 nunb [~nundan@59.178.199.83] has joined #lisp 19:45:18 -!- zhabba [~zhabba@92.55.60.69] has quit [Quit:     (xchat 2.4.5  )] 19:48:18 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-xo.basistech.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:48:27 -!- gz_ [Clozure@clozure-15E00DD3.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Quit: gz_] 19:48:27 -!- gz_ [~gz@173-124-24-53.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Quit: gz_] 19:49:43 carnieri [~carnieri@200.146.78.27.static.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 19:50:42 " ;; sb-thread:with-recursive-lock is heavy handed, we roll our own 19:50:43 ;; with sb-thread:with-mutex (non-recursive) instead:" 19:50:58 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 19:51:03 haha this portable-threads.lisp library is a joke 19:51:27 -!- saikat_ [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: saikat_] 19:53:45 -!- nunb [~nundan@59.178.199.83] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:53:58 HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 19:55:04 gz_ [~gz@173-124-24-53.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 19:56:56 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:57:13 tcr, where from? 19:57:28 gbopen or how it's called 19:57:28 minion: portable threads? 19:57:29 you speak nonsense 19:57:34 minion: portable-threads? 19:57:35 portable-threads: Portable-threads is the GBBopen project's portable-thread code all packaged up for ASDF-Install. http://www.cliki.net/portable-threads 19:57:44 not that bordeaux-threads is any better, the task is just futile 19:58:03 -!- gz_ [~gz@173-124-24-53.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:58:51 Azuvix [~user@174-19-239-187.bois.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:58:52 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 19:59:08 Bigger channel than I expected. 19:59:47 mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has joined #lisp 20:00:16 Most are bots. 20:00:23 Lisp and AI, you know 20:00:41 This is where all the AI systems come to hang out and chat about making AI systems... Thus, it's a weird form of cybersex. 20:00:46 they mostly don't talk because they're so slow though because it's interpreted, but hey 20:01:08 lol 20:01:13 Ah well. I was just going to ask how to get started with Common Lisp. I installed GCL. Online, it keeps talking about clbuild. Is that needed? 20:01:28 Azuvix: you made a wrong first step with GCL 20:01:39 GCL might not be the most modern / bugfree / fast / practical implementation. 20:01:46 Azuvix: what platform you are on (architecture/OS?) 20:01:54 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:02:11 i686, Trisquel. 20:02:21 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@69.38.240.242] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 20:02:22 Trisquel? is it some linux variant? 20:02:23 *nyef* is still amused at sb-genesis/genesis:genesis as a function name. 20:02:37 Yep. 20:02:43 (genesis:genesis *genesis*) 20:02:48 gotta love your lisp-N 20:02:49 Azuvix: grab SBCL, then install clbuild 20:02:59 minion: clbuild? 20:02:59 clbuild: clbuild is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 20:03:26 Alrighty, I'll go from there. 20:03:28 Azuvix: then install Emacs (22.x or 23.x) and get SLIME (available through clbuild easily) 20:03:49 Azuvix: http://unya.wordpress.com/2009/06/07/linux-common-lisp-quickstart/ 20:04:07 (it's not exactly the best HOWTO I could write, but it works somehow) 20:04:24 tcr: With respect to threading, are you better off designing some higher level library for concurrency with back ends for each target implementation? 20:04:39 Thanks for the help, everyone. 20:05:49 The latest version of my current genesis hack is at http://repo.or.cz/w/sbcl/nyef.git/shortlog/refs/heads/radical-refactoring/genesis if anyone wants to look at it. I think I might be done with it for a bit, though there's still quite a bit to do. 20:07:30 Edward [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-53-116.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:07:45 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 20:08:26 tmh: Perhaps. I suggest minion's advice regarding portability though 20:08:54 minion: advice regarding portable 20:08:54 you speak nonsense 20:09:05 Strangely apropos 20:09:11 minion: advice tmh about portable 20:09:12 tmh: #12017: It doesn't need to be portable, it just needs to work on your system. 20:10:22 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-198-42.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:10:43 tcr: Options, I like to keep my options wide, hence the desire for portability, within reason. 20:12:19 Truth is that you'll code perusing the assumptions of your favorite implementation 20:12:58 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-181-19.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 20:13:13 which may not be the assumptions of another implementation although they both provide similiar interfaces 20:14:24 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-9-50.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 20:14:58 Another bit of portability advice is that all code is portable if it can be stored on a USB stick. 20:15:22 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 20:16:32 -!- bgs000 [57o9@57o9.org] has quit [Changing host] 20:16:33 bgs000 [57o9@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 20:16:34 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 20:17:22 -!- boyscared [~bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:17:23 rvirding [~chatzilla@h80n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 20:18:18 boyscared [~bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:21:06 -!- rrice [~rrice@adsl-69-221-169-136.dsl.akrnoh.ameritech.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:21:32 syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.180.146] has joined #lisp 20:21:43 nyef, especially if that USB stick contains a VM image and a copy of virtualbox for Linux, Mac and Windows. 20:22:43 Actually, my argument is that you can take the USB stick with you, therefore it's portable. 20:23:09 Edward_ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-2-216.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:24:05 netytan [~netytan@85.211.10.7] has joined #lisp 20:25:07 -!- Edward [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-53-116.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:27:34 -!- Azuvix [~user@174-19-239-187.bois.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:28:04 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:28:19 lol 20:28:30 nyef funny 20:29:00 -!- Pepe_ [~ppjet@bouah.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:29:29 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:29:35 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:29:50 saikat_ [~saikat@99.13.242.166] has joined #lisp 20:30:25 -!- saikat_ is now known as saikat 20:30:42 nyef, and my argument is that it's not just physically portable to any computer, but can actually run on each and everyone of them! 20:31:26 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0AFCC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:32:16 kye [~kye@web047119.Wireless.McGill.CA] has joined #lisp 20:32:40 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:32:49 -!- konr [~konrad@201.82.134.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:32:52 Isn't, but you'll get most of them that way. 20:36:27 Mwah, portable-threads: (defun run-in-thread (thread function &rest args) ...) which is sugar for interrupt-thread, and you know what? 20:36:36 it declares the &rest arg to be dynamic-extent! 20:37:04 ak70 [~ak70@85.232.203.48] has joined #lisp 20:37:24 wonderful 20:38:28 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@host102-108-dynamic.40-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:38:43 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:38:56 -!- francogrex [~user@238.35-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has left #lisp 20:39:25 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-198-42.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:32 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:44:31 which is the most active & updated, portable-threads or bordeaux-threads? 20:45:00 Hardly matters. Write your program, port it later. 20:45:03 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 20:45:21 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 20:45:42 so they're both pretty much kept current? 20:46:15 Phoodus: that was a "mu". Get something working first. 20:46:23 -!- moah [~gnu@dslb-188-101-028-187.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:46:27 I have code working 20:46:30 we're going to thread shortly 20:46:41 and we've got both windows/ccl and linux/sbcl going, on a mix of 32 and 64 bits 20:47:31 So, try running both for some simple tests on all of your target platforms, and see which works better or which you like better. 20:47:44 so both are expected to work? 20:47:55 I'm just asking if either is languishing or abandoned 20:48:09 as one abstraction API tends to "win out" over another 20:48:17 I'd look for what you need, and write your own custom layer for ccl and sbcl 20:48:18 in terms of momentum & support 20:48:35 for just the stuff you need, and pay crucial attention to it 20:48:36 tcr has another viable approach, and one that I almost suggested. 20:48:59 An approach I might take would be ditching CCL and hacking on SBCL to bring it up to scratch. 20:49:18 well, I really dont' ahve allocation to dive into SBCL itself 20:49:38 Phoodus: since they seem to abstract the same API, getting something correct first, and only then converting to a portability layer, if any, is probably an efficient method. 20:49:58 hence also the tendency to leave the wrapping of implementation-specifics and quirks to those people who are already aware of those and already have wrapped them in portability layers 20:50:27 njsg [~null@unaffiliated/njsg] has joined #lisp 20:50:55 Phoodus: the major quirks are in the concurrency abstractions. 20:51:05 The problem is that the API fallacious; portable multithreading is more a fairytale than a reality in CL. Just an example: Many implementation provide a function make-recursive-lock, however on some that has an internal count attached to it so acquisitions and releases must even each other out, on others it just means that you can reacquire a lock, and a release will release it completely 20:51:45 htk_ [~htk___@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has joined #lisp 20:52:03 the portable library will provide a make-recursive-lock, and call out to each make-recursive-lock of the implementations 20:52:12 portable, eh? 20:52:12 tcr: wtf on the latter interpretation? 20:52:44 it's kind of what sbcl does? Also it makes sense, otherwise you can easily deadlock with condition-wait 20:52:52 WTF? 20:53:12 tcr: "kind of"? 20:53:14 Ugh. I'm -so- glad that I can mostly ignore threads. 20:53:52 it does not provide an explicit recursive lock datatype, just with-recursive-lock that you can use on mutexes 20:54:08 -!- kye [~kye@web047119.Wireless.McGill.CA] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:54:55 tcr: which is a no-op when the thread already owns the lock. 20:55:08 yup 20:56:25 pkhuong: the release in condition-wait will release it completely, that's what I was referring to; not that with-recursive-lock would release it in its UWP cleanup 20:57:03 <_8david`> I fail to see how portability problems should become less bad if people are encouraged to reimplement portability shims for themselves over and over again instead of using a centrally maintained library that does does it for them. 20:57:04 gz_ [~gz@108.117.119.214] has joined #lisp 20:57:08 tcr: oh, sure. I wouldn't call it a recursive lock, though, only a recursive acquisition :) 20:57:38 pkhuong: sure true, that's why sbcl does not provide such a datatype; however, tell that those library authors 20:57:38 -!- Ogedei [~user@e178214104.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:57:44 _8david`: I think the point is rather to get something portable (but not ported) working first and then investigate which portability layer works best. 20:58:49 pkhuong: explain 20:58:58 _8david`: Sure but you need people work on it with a good fu in that implementation; and implementators still seem to be busy getting their own stuff right 20:59:03 because writing then rewriting seems awfully subpar to me 20:59:16 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75477e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:59:21 as opposed to "Okay, here's our plan & our needs, XYZ portability libs offer what we need, now pick one" 20:59:39 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:59:50 Phoodus: minimise accidental complexity; shared memory concurrency is intrinsically hard enough as it is. 20:59:56 no it's not 20:59:58 <_8david`> if the question is about momentum, and is being asked in this channel, the answer seems clear: portable-threads has hardly been mentioned on this channel in years AFAIR, while bxthreads had been designed and is being maintained by regulars here 21:00:20 _8david`: pascal costanza has been embracing portable-threads 21:00:41 and my employer used to use it, but I threw it out :-) 21:01:05 -!- gz_ [~gz@108.117.119.214] has quit [Client Quit] 21:01:10 -!- htk_ [~htk___@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:01:18 chee [~chee@unaffiliated/chee] has joined #lisp 21:01:18 *_8david`* looks at the code 21:01:33 -!- chee [~chee@unaffiliated/chee] has left #lisp 21:02:05 <_8david`> okay. I don't know _what_ portable-threads does, but the _how_ is enough to not use it. 21:02:33 what's the canonical location for portable-thread's code? 21:02:58 konr [~konrad@201.82.134.220] has joined #lisp 21:03:32 Phoodus: What do you need exactly? I'd suggest to use sb-concurrency:mailbox on sbcl, and perhaps ccl comes with a mailbox implementation, too, otherwise it's not to hard to write one. 21:03:59 <_8david`> and here I thought #+junk-ridden functions went out of fashion early this decade (or is that last decade?). 21:04:07 Slime's using threads without any problem because it dose message passing via a mailbox 21:04:37 tcr: we've got both message queues and parallel searching of functional tree structures 21:05:07 _8david`: heh, indeed. the portable-threads code I'm looking at looks pretty gross. 21:05:58 Phoodus: trying to design ahead of time and insert another factor in your code to debug and mistrust seems like a bad idea. We use CL for the iterative development style, so first, get a good, correct design that way, and then insert more code you don't own. 21:06:10 we already did 21:06:33 the migration path to threading was in there from day 1 21:06:39 as was the distribution model 21:06:44 we know our needs 21:06:46 Phoodus: David L. Rager has been talking of a higher-level concurrency lib developed on at least SBCL, and CCL. 21:06:52 I thought you were going to add threads. 21:07:04 correct 21:07:18 we're not threaded right now, as we only had SBCL and couldn't thread on windows 21:07:21 So you have not yet developed a working correct design. 21:07:43 but now that we've verified CCL in the mix, we should be able to thread on all supported platforms 21:07:52 pkhuong: the design is done 21:08:03 -!- carnieri [~carnieri@200.146.78.27.static.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: carnieri] 21:08:25 I'm sure you know the difference between theory and practice. 21:08:41 of course, I've been working with distributed and threaded code for 20 years now :-P 21:08:56 Phoodus: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.steel-bank.devel/14686 21:11:07 pkhuong: none, right? In theory, anyway. 21:12:25 "In theory, there's no difference between theory and practice. But in practice, there is" 21:13:28 Phoodus: I think that left a kosher impression to me. He selected a few implementations he want to support, he seems to actively follow their implementation, asked about mt-related implementation-details, and the library is high-level enough 21:16:34 -!- Jabberwockey [~jens@port-91506.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:17:15 htk_ [~htk___@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has joined #lisp 21:17:52 hotdogs [~brain@cpe-76-90-94-169.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:19:49 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:19:52 Tabstar [terry@freenode/staff/tabmow] has joined #lisp 21:20:37 -!- Tabmow [terry@freenode/staff/tabmow] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:21:16 boris [~boris@nat-wh.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has joined #lisp 21:21:18 aaaah 21:21:23 halp! 21:21:48 hi, we have some users using clisp 2.47 on a linux system via putty. If they have clisp open after running some commands and they close the window, it doesn't close and starts using 100% cpu. It looks like, from a backtrace, that it gets stuck in an infinite loop of error handling. Is there a way to have it exit normally when it receives the HUP when someone closes their window? 21:21:50 Phoodus: so, what exactly do you need, in theory? 21:22:55 for this project it's pretty simple, just locks & worker thread pools 21:23:27 the simplicity is intentional for both ease of design and to maintain maximum portability 21:23:30 hotdogs: I've seen that too 21:24:03 hotdogs: I think my solution was to move to a newer version 21:24:05 hotdogs: I've seen that in SLIME in windows when closing down without slime-quit-lisp as well 21:24:18 tcr: to 2.48? 21:24:31 I can't recall having it seen on that 21:24:38 but I'm actually using a CVS checkout 21:24:54 (and I'm not really an active user of clisp...) 21:24:56 Phoodus: no condition variable? 21:25:13 nope 21:26:05 tcr: neither am I, but we keep getting 3-5 clisp processes eating up cores on our boxes after a day or two 21:26:22 IIRC, ccl exposes semaphores as the basic unit of concurrency control, but locks are available either natively or through bx-threads. 21:28:11 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@pdpc/supporter/active/mstevens] has quit [Quit: mstevens] 21:28:21 -!- rayservers [~sp@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:28:38 -!- ak70 [~ak70@85.232.203.48] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:28:57 hotdogs: I'd try the newer version, and if it does not help, write to the maintainers; not many in here use clisp regularly 21:30:23 aww man, I have to actually write an email? That's what I use IRC to avoid :) 21:31:00 unfortunately they don't hang out here :-) 21:31:45 hotdogs: CLISP seems a little on the out of the #lisp community... 21:32:21 what's the cool implementation these days? 21:32:44 maybe I can suggest a new one to avoid the problems 21:33:32 -!- tcr [~tcr@host178.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:33:45 hotdogs: on Linux, you have SBCL, Clozure CL and (for experimenters etc.) ECL, on Windows there's ClozureCL (stable with quirks), ECL (rather stable with all the common issues on other platforms) and SBCL (dunno, got some interop the best, but lacks threads and is crash-prone due to memory layout and other issues) 21:33:55 rayservers [~sp@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 21:34:12 On Macs, there's ClozureCL and SBCL (though I guess Clozure supports macs better) and of course ECL. 21:34:24 boris pasted "macro or let problem" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97412 21:34:35 SBCL has been totally stable on win64 for us (non-threaded) 21:34:41 p_l: cool thanks 21:35:10 Phoodus: good. I hope to see totally-stable and threaded for SBCL (What I heard on unwind supports makes me hope for great things!) 21:35:18 would someone like to look at that? 21:35:24 ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 21:35:35 seems i have a problem with a recursive macro 21:36:36 p_l: will sbcl do win64 any time in the future? 21:36:45 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:36:59 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:37:03 funny how 32-bit SBCL is 2x faster than CCL in our heavy computation, even though it makes do with half the register space 21:37:13 ...than 64-bit ccl... 21:37:20 did you test 64bit SBCL? 21:37:31 I've only downloaded binaries, so no 21:37:36 Phoodus: dunno. I'm not good enough to work on it, and there's little workforce available for SBCL/win{32,64} 21:37:40 (unless there's a win64 binary posted recently) 21:37:53 boris: Your problem seems more fundamental than that, given that you're using a non-toplevel defparameter. 21:38:20 Amadiro_ [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 21:38:28 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:39:04 nyef why us that bad? there is a dynamic variable i want to set 21:39:32 And the (progn (let ...)) thing is pointless, just use the let. 21:40:19 defparameter is for -defining-, not setting. Use setf to set a variable's value. 21:40:25 that may all be the case, the problem is that the first one does what it should, but the second one fails 21:41:09 nyef: well, i failed the defparameter thing true... 21:41:58 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:42:54 boris: have you looked at the macro expansion.? 21:43:25 Ah. The second one doesn't make much sense. I'll let gigamonkey take it from here, though. 21:44:02 -!- alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:44:35 gigamonkey: i have 21:44:53 Do you notice that dotted list? 21:45:08 gigamonkey: yes 21:45:31 gigamonkey: noticing is as far as i got 21:45:35 Well, that's your problem. ;-) 21:45:43 I'm not sure you want to be using gensyms here. 21:45:58 well without gensyms it works 21:46:11 but it should work with somehow, should it not? 21:46:42 The problem is, the way you're using them doesn't really make sense. 21:46:48 -!- cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 21:46:55 -!- Edward_ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-2-216.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 21:47:22 gigamonkey: i just do not want to write (first ordered) all the time 21:47:39 gigamonkey annotated #97412 "untested but try this" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97412#1 21:48:04 -!- njsg [~null@unaffiliated/njsg] has quit [Quit: Scrödinger's cat is... -- /quit] 21:49:33 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@2002:62e2:51c2:0:226:4aff:fe01:c6e] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:49:56 tritchey [~tritchey@2002:62e2:51c2:0:226:bbff:fe00:80c6] has joined #lisp 21:50:52 gigamonkey annotated #97412 "Also untested but equivalent, I think" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97412#2 21:51:52 Though I don't like the look of that unhygenic reference to M 21:52:22 Whoops, sorry, not quite right. 21:54:11 gigamonkey annotated #97412 "Fix over zealousness in last annotation" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97412#3 21:54:17 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@2002:62e2:51c2:0:226:bbff:fe00:80c6] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:54:55 dnolen [~dnolen@pool-71-247-120-94.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:55:28 Or use multiple-value-prog1 if relative-to-abs could return multiple values. 21:56:29 gigamonkey: im trying out that stuff of yours, but is that not evil? 21:57:48 What? What's evil about it? 21:58:13 -!- xenosoz1 [~xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:58:50 xenosoz1 [~xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has joined #lisp 21:58:52 how much memory should be allocated to a VPS for building SBCL if I'm getting mmap errors? on FreeBSD 21:59:07 -!- Tabstar [terry@freenode/staff/tabmow] has quit [Ping timeout: 630 seconds] 21:59:18 btw, one question - are LOOP keywords usable with : (like :for x :in somelist :collect (form) ) or is it just me seeing things? (cause it didn't work for me) 21:59:49 gigamonkey: i thought is was leaky but it is not, so sorry not evil :) 21:59:54 -!- pix4 [~pixel@212.60.130.33] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:00:00 boris: There might be folks who'd cavil at my use of WHEN instead of an IF with an explicit () in the else arm but otherwise I think that's pretty standard style. 22:00:30 p_l: they should work. 22:00:43 gigamonkey: well, I had opposite results with SBCL... 22:00:48 Tabmow [terry@freenode/staff/tabmow] has joined #lisp 22:01:02 attila_lendvai_ [~ati@adsl-89-134-31-42.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 22:01:05 Hmmmm. WFM. 22:01:19 -!- boyscared [~bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:02:08 p_l: loop compares symbols as strings 22:02:28 balooga1 [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 22:03:07 suddenly, it works. I don't know why it didn't before... 22:03:12 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:03:15 oh well, doesn't matter much, now. 22:03:29 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-91-178.jetstart.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 22:04:16 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@89.135.196.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:04:49 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:06:09 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:07:34 ... I suddenly find myself wondering which wins, loop-keywordness or symbol-macroness? 22:08:20 don't symbol-macros only get expanded in value positions? 22:08:28 True. 22:08:31 My money is on loop-keywordness wins. 22:08:34 -!- balooga1 [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:08:41 Which would suggest that, since loop does parsing, the loop-keywordness wins. 22:08:56 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 22:09:27 nikon_ [~user@pD95DF7BF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:13:04 boyscared [~bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:15:01 plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-84-200.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 22:16:29 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-48-37.iburst.co.za] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:16:46 -!- Soulman [~kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:18:25 gigamonkey: OT --- got imprisoned on a plane long enough to see your entire presentation at Google. A very interesting lecture to go with the book... 22:21:18 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 22:21:23 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-72-79-219-97.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:21:23 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-72-79-219-97.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:21:23 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 22:22:34 gonzojive_ [~red@171.66.49.17] has joined #lisp 22:22:37 gigamonkey: your version is prettier than mine, but i still do not see why mine does not work 22:23:34 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:21b:63ff:fe96:e1ff] has quit [Quit: palter] 22:24:44 gigamonkey: just putting the let after the gensym let in breaks it 22:25:05 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.196.209] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:25:56 -!- nikon_ [~user@pD95DF7BF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:27:24 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:27:29 sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has joined #lisp 22:28:15 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-31-40.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:30:01 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-208-87.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:32:36 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 22:32:54 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-31-40.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 22:34:00 balooga1 [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 22:34:26 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:35:50 -!- love [~love@c213-89-103-72.bredband.comhem.se] has left #lisp 22:36:20 gigamonkey: thanks so far anyway :) i gotta go 22:36:31 -!- boris [~boris@nat-wh.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:36:36 carnieri [~carnieri@201.21.178.60] has joined #lisp 22:40:32 gz_ [~gz@108.117.119.214] has joined #lisp 22:41:46 -!- balooga1 [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:41:58 -!- thijso [~thijs@83.98.233.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:42:15 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 22:43:14 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:43:20 thijso [~thijs@83.98.233.115] has joined #lisp 22:43:50 amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 22:46:14 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-188-2-22-192.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:47:20 Anarch [~olaf@c-67-171-37-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:48:15 -!- felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:51:16 cYmen [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has joined #lisp 22:52:29 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-181-19.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:53:56 -!- htk_ [~htk___@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:54:09 -!- slyrus__ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:54:44 slyrus__ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 22:56:41 -!- milanj [~milan@93.86.188.185] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:58:54 rpg: glad you liked it! 22:59:18 I assume you mean the Coders at Work one? 23:00:03 -!- netytan [~netytan@85.211.10.7] has quit [Quit: netytan] 23:03:05 -!- nicolai [~nicolai@c-67-188-233-156.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:03:08 nicolai [~nicolai@c-67-188-233-156.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:03:17 anyone here know about Slime? is it possible for me to exchange data between Emacs and the app running in SLIME, as part of the applications' feature set? 23:03:56 dto: swank:eval-in-emacs ? 23:04:05 nyef: ooh. 23:04:19 Needs to be enabled, emacs-side. 23:04:20 -!- udzinari` [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:05:14 I've also done stuff like had elisp call out to CL to generate a pnm image which I then insert into an emacs buffer. 23:05:15 is swank always loaded in the process? i.e. can i just test for (if (find-package "swank") 23:05:35 nyef: cool. i am trying to make some basic interaction between emacs and my emacs-ish spreadsheet program 23:05:39 You might want to check for the presence of a connection as well. 23:05:50 nyef: i might pick your brain :) 23:06:04 nyef: have you seen my recent screenshot of the editor? http://4.bp.blogspot.com/__0MPwyMlKNo/S7qnfEHzlRI/AAAAAAAAAMA/MO1yECLiqV8/s1600/Screenshot-2.png 23:06:12 things are working, albeit very roughly 23:06:22 Yeah, I saw that. Congrats. 23:07:34 Odd to see a 1600x1001 pixel screenshot when I'm on something like 1024x600. 23:08:09 i cropped it manually from a dual-head screenshot 23:08:23 this is the right half 23:08:45 -!- carnieri [~carnieri@201.21.178.60] has quit [Quit: carnieri] 23:08:58 I'm hoping to turn one of my systems into a hydra once I get a DVI->VGA adaptor. 23:09:14 i wonder if i should move the status-line (i.e. the title, Loc: (row, column) stuff 23:09:19 to the bottom of each "window" 23:09:23 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.92.23.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:09:25 to be more like emacs's modeline 23:09:54 -!- WOG [~OsamaBinW@66-168-47-22.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Quit: WAAAAAAAAGH!!] 23:10:43 ... warhammer orks? 23:10:43 i love developing GUIs. i don't get to do it nearly often enough 23:11:00 what? 23:11:20 The quit message. 23:11:54 Oh well, doesn't really matter. 23:12:29 I sometimes wish I was better with GUI stuff, but I mostly find other things more interesting so tend not to work on it. 23:12:51 i used to read and reread that design patterns book where all the examples are about a graphical UI 23:12:55 :) 23:13:07 i'm still a super object orientation weenie 23:13:14 davazp [~user@147.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:13:16 OO is so 60s 23:13:25 *p_l* actually thought about making some kind of UI toolkit built on SWANK and Emacs 23:13:31 I don't know about 60s, but maybe late-70s? 23:13:48 Which design pattern book? 23:13:52 -!- gz_ [Clozure@D774C275.323B1540.E709856B.IP] has quit [Quit: gz_] 23:13:52 -!- gz_ [~gz@108.117.119.214] has quit [Quit: gz_] 23:14:22 -!- davazp [~user@147.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:14:29 Oh, hey, do you know where to find the factory patterns in the CLIM spec? 23:15:36 nyef: "Design Patterns", the GoF book by Gamma et al 23:15:49 p_l: tell me your thoughts on your kit 23:15:58 Heh. I thought about that one, but the only example I could remember offhand was the flyweight pattern. 23:16:13 p_l: thus far i have made an emacish UI engine in common lisp 23:16:47 for example one can make buffers of formatted strings like ("Error:" :foreground "red" :background "yellow") 23:17:05 or (nil :image "foo-image") to display an image. and emacsy inline images/text are possible 23:17:46 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simula nyef 23:17:55 dto: part of it started as an idea to get a CLIM-like command system into portable form, not based on CLIM, so I could make primitive CLI UIs instead of typing Lisp forms 23:17:58 Yeah, I know, but still... smalltalk? 23:18:13 dto: then I thought about adding Emacs support code 23:18:13 p_l: you mean clone the dynamic lisp listener? 23:18:23 dto: kind of 23:18:36 i wanted to do that at some point. i got hold of the Genera manuals and printed/bound them 23:18:38 p_l: How about "just" reimplementing those parts of CLIM? 23:18:41 a very simple variant of it, so that you can easily make simple demonstration interfaces. 23:18:52 and wrote a bunch of notes for an elisp implementation :) 23:19:23 nyef: It can be a reimplementation as well - The "baseline" support would be basically stdout/stdin 23:20:05 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h80n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 23:20:13 http://github.com/dto/alpha/blob/master/ushell.el p_l my notes 23:20:32 actually i should reread this before i start hackig 23:21:16 Heh. "The Emacs of the Future" -- Clearly, a good, old-fashioned future. 23:21:18 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 23:21:45 htk_ [~htk___@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has joined #lisp 23:21:47 haha 23:21:51 i was in an odd state when i wrote this 23:22:11 ... Michigan? 23:22:22 ha 23:23:38 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B698.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:25:30 *nyef* wonders if he should look at CLIM again next, or pick some other project. 23:27:39 pragma_[away] [~50cab43a@ns1.smartcall.bg] has joined #lisp 23:28:06 here's a fun experiment: Send a PM to "pragma_" telling him to "stop that pesky candide at #osdev" 23:28:10 thanks 23:28:14 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:28:33 pragma_[away]: go away. 23:28:36 nay 23:28:46 bend over so i can fuck you instead 23:28:55 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:28:56 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 23:28:56 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 23:28:56 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Xach 23:29:01 -!- pragma_[away] [~50cab43a@ns1.smartcall.bg] has left #lisp 23:29:23 what's been up Xach? 23:29:25 -!- gonzojive_ [~red@171.66.49.17] has quit [Quit: gonzojive_] 23:29:28 -!- Xach has set mode +b *!*@ns1.smartcall.bg 23:29:47 Xach: i was thinking of writing a sum-up article about the contest entries 23:29:48 not much. trying to write a short lisp program to generate arbitrary DNS records for tinydns consumption. 23:30:14 i need to add not-directly-supported SRV records to link up jabber/xmpp and my google hosted domain 23:31:19 it's one of those things that'd take 15 minutes to do manually with an online tool and 90 to write a lisp program to do it. i think i might run out of energy. 23:31:20 i don't know what that is. but it sounds cool :) 23:31:24 actually i have xmpp. 23:33:47 hah. 23:36:28 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:37:26 gonzojive_ [~red@rescomp-09-157437.Stanford.EDU] has joined #lisp 23:40:25 -!- thijso [~thijs@83.98.233.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:43:17 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:44:55 mbohun [~mbohun@202.124.75.11] has joined #lisp 23:49:13 froydnj: do you remember what has already been tried to accelerate ir1opt? 23:49:28 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-xo.basistech.com] has joined #lisp 23:53:00 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 23:54:48 thijso [~thijs@83.98.233.115] has joined #lisp 23:55:34 -!- HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:56:42 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:59:28 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp