00:00:46 WOG [~OsamaBinW@66-168-47-22.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 00:01:09 -!- sammcd [~sammcd@74-132-223-43.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:03:02 Is there anyway to catch when an object is no longer reference, ie. set for garbage collection 00:03:47 *referenced 00:03:48 Guthur: finalisers, but you can't get to the object by then (it's been gced already) 00:06:09 umm, the problem I have is a foreign object which has an explicit deletion method, I would like to wrap that in CLOS without requiring the user to remember to call a delete function 00:08:42 what foreign object is that? 00:08:54 Guthur: assign a finaliser to the CLOS object. The finaliser can close over enough data to delete the foreign object without closing over the (finalised) CLOS object itself. 00:09:37 tcr: the database object from tokyo cabinet 00:09:56 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@80.153.54.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:10:44 Just started looking at it, so I might take a different approach if it doesn't really work 00:10:45 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 00:11:07 pkhuong: cheers I will look into that 00:11:45 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:16 -!- HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:14:28 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:22:31 felideon_away [~felideon@adsl-223-182-12.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 00:24:36 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:24:36 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:27:42 Guthur: I think you should provide the users with a with-foo style macro, and the finalizers should signal a warning 00:28:12 tcr: ya I was thinking of providing such 00:28:46 But they might want to have a more long term object 00:28:56 -!- Soulman [~kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:29:39 they can use with-foo on a special variable in their toplevel function / event-loop 00:30:10 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:30:53 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d557540-CM00222d55753d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 00:31:39 -!- Jabberwockey [~jens@port-8080.pppoe.wtnet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:31:54 I don't like diminishing foreign state in finalizers because you can't know when the GC will run, so there may be reentrancy issues with the library etc 00:32:19 That is a common CL pattern, and I will provide it, just started and only really have the low level bindings at the moment 00:33:07 tcr: reentrancy? If that's an issue, you shouldn't expose the library with a finalised object. 00:33:33 -!- netytan [~netytan@85.211.10.7] has quit [Quit: netytan] 00:34:23 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483B79E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:36:04 Umm actually there maybe a just such a problem, I am guessing though 00:36:31 Gertm [~Gertm@mail.dzine.be] has joined #lisp 00:38:03 -!- balooga [~00u4440@76.194.233.139] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:39:27 -!- saikat [~saikat@99.13.242.166] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:40:24 Oh I think it should be fine 00:41:31 saikat [~saikat@99.13.242.166] has joined #lisp 00:42:05 Oh crap there is one major issue, I believe it could lock up the DB 00:42:26 umm I think that's pretty much out the window as an approach 00:44:49 -!- quidnunc [~user@bas16-montreal02-1279375297.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:45:53 Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:49:21 <_3b`> isn't there already bindings for tc? 00:49:40 _3b` Seems to be a dead link on cliki for one 00:50:24 and the other is just the low level bindings for an old version, and some really badly created .asd and package definitions 00:50:43 that's on git. 00:50:49 github* 00:53:07 -!- tompa [~thomas@h59ec27fb.sehjjak.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:53:11 <_3b`> ah, probably one of those then 00:54:18 oh actually there does seem to be better just found it on github, its not linked on cliki 00:56:05 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-42-185.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 00:56:29 note to self, cliki is not the definitive source of all that is lispy 00:56:31 tompa [~tompa@h59ec27fb.sehjjak.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #lisp 00:57:37 -!- bytecolor [~user@adsl-71-137-200-22.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:57:41 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-45-211.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:58:36 -!- udzinari` [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:58:59 i think the lisp community is too fractious for there to be one 01:00:56 Well definitely should have looked harder, _3b` cheers for inadvertently causing me to search again 01:01:05 http://github.com/keithj/cl-tokyo-cabinet 01:01:18 I will give that one a whirl, looks ok at first glance 01:04:21 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 01:07:58 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h80n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 01:09:23 Edward [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-58-234.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 01:12:21 Edward_ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-57-69.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 01:14:10 derrida [~derrida@unaffiliated/deleuze] has joined #lisp 01:14:14 -!- Edward [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-58-234.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:14:48 umm this guy has created his on wee CL ecosystem 01:14:53 on/own 01:17:28 <_3b`> doesn't everyone? :p 01:17:46 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440291.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: hugod] 01:19:01 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!] 01:19:18 mildly inconvenient though, I can't run the tests without his framework stuff 01:20:20 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 01:26:50 -!- alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 01:29:00 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:32:25 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 01:35:24 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-72-228-72-196.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 01:40:53 quotemstr_ [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:42:01 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 01:42:07 -!- quotemstr [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:42:07 -!- quotemstr_ is now known as quotemstr 01:44:33 jleija [~jleija@adsl-91-4-114.chs.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:45:00 -!- jao [~jao@122.Red-88-27-170.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:45:29 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 01:46:34 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:48:28 -!- Phoodus [foo@174-26-247-120.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:53:05 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:54:21 the hu.dwim ecosystem is fairly impressive, too 01:55:57 fhc [~fhc@c-71-227-234-97.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:58:03 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@89.135.205.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:00:56 -!- felideon_away [~felideon@adsl-223-182-12.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:01:26 any of the dwim.hu guys on at the moment 02:01:56 -!- saikat [~saikat@99.13.242.166] has quit [Quit: saikat] 02:02:26 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-71-232-16-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 02:02:28 saikat [~saikat@99.13.242.166] has joined #lisp 02:02:37 really minor spelling mistake here -> http://rdbms.dwim.hu/ 02:03:03 In the installation section, puprpose 02:03:20 should be 'purpose' is assume 02:03:25 is/I 02:05:21 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 02:06:51 -!- saikat [~saikat@99.13.242.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:08:49 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d557540-CM00222d55753d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: airolson] 02:11:07 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:11:29 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 02:11:30 palter_ [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:21b:63ff:fe96:e1ff] has joined #lisp 02:11:30 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:11:30 -!- palter_ is now known as palter 02:12:05 felideon_away [~felideon@adsl-223-182-12.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:15:23 -!- hicx174 [~hicx174@211.187.100.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:16:14 hicx174 [~hicx174@211.187.100.115] has joined #lisp 02:23:30 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 02:24:03 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 02:24:14 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440291.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:24:39 hi. 02:26:21 I want to take a square and split it in multiple random squares/rectangles. Does it sound sane that I could take the area of a randomly generated square and subtract the area of that square/rectangle from the larger square and use the difference of the areas of the space that is still usable? 02:26:34 actually yes that would work. 02:26:38 nm dumb question 02:32:58 -!- fhc [~fhc@c-71-227-234-97.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 02:33:20 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 02:35:12 Not quite a dumb question: The process of articulating it for an audience helped you find the answer. 02:35:42 fhc [~fhc@c-71-227-234-97.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:36:05 -!- fhc [~fhc@c-71-227-234-97.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:36:19 sure 02:38:26 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:40:17 -!- zoe [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:40:22 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 02:40:54 -!- fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: Valete!] 02:42:10 -!- hefner [~root@ppp-61-90-103-94.revip.asianet.co.th] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:42:32 -!- porcelina [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:43:08 hefner [~root@ppp-61-90-103-94.revip.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 02:43:44 Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:44:46 saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:45:14 newToLisp234 [~Dylan@c-98-255-202-231.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:48:23 -!- newToLisp234 [~Dylan@c-98-255-202-231.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 02:52:13 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:54:46 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 02:57:58 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:58:59 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 02:59:15 Davidbrcz [david@212-198-83-2.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 02:59:27 reprore_ [~reprore@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:05:53 -!- felideon_away is now known as felideon 03:13:14 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.125.182.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:19:37 zoe [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:20:23 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has joined #lisp 03:20:30 -!- Davidbrcz [david@212-198-83-2.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:20:53 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:21:31 -!- felideon [~felideon@adsl-223-182-12.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:21:32 -!- Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: A subtle thought that is in error may yet give rise to fruitful inquiry that can establish truths of great value.] 03:28:13 -!- xenosoz1 [~xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:29:06 xenosoz1 [~xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has joined #lisp 03:38:00 kwinz3 [~kwinz@mk093111074152.a1.net] has joined #lisp 03:38:12 -!- Edward_ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-57-69.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 03:38:21 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:39:44 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.181.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:46:19 Edward [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-57-69.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 03:51:22 -!- Edward [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-57-69.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 03:54:50 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@mk093111074152.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:08:35 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 04:09:36 HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 04:10:38 -!- ps3sux [~ps3sux@c-66-235-32-163.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:10:55 -!- Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:12:06 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:23:45 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 04:26:03 OsamaBinWOG [~OsamaBinW@66-168-47-22.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 04:27:10 kwinz3 [~kwinz@mk093111074152.a1.net] has joined #lisp 04:28:49 -!- WOG [~OsamaBinW@66-168-47-22.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:31:22 ikki [~ikki@189.139.181.2] has joined #lisp 04:34:20 -!- LiamH [~nobody@pool-72-75-98-188.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:36:22 newToLisp234 [~Dylan@c-98-255-202-231.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:42:23 mik8y [~user@112.154.21.142] has joined #lisp 04:45:07 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 04:45:14 Hi, all. If I may ask, what method is generally preferred for keeping parentheses balanced when writing code with Emacs? SLIME's C-c C-q doesn't work outside "Lisp in a Box". Paredit seems to impose some restrictions, according to the discussions on its main page, and it's yet another learning curve for someone only beginning to learn Emacs (like me!) If anyone has any suggestions, I look forward to hearing them. 04:45:56 I love paredit, myself. 04:46:03 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.73.196] has joined #lisp 04:46:16 haven't had to deal with a misplaced paren since I installed it 04:48:15 Ralith: where should I put the .el file? I see the info for auto-activation, etc., but not that. (Presumably something more experienced Emacs users already know >.>) 04:48:40 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-30.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:49:22 newToLisp234: anywhere emacs can see it. 04:50:20 Ralith: Would a typical solution on *nix be to put it somewhere like ~/.emacs_files/paredit.el? 04:50:42 *Ralith* uses ~/elisp/ 04:50:48 but there's no formal convention I know of. 04:51:01 hrrm it looks like symbol names can have extended-chars in them? 04:51:28 Ralith: All right - thank you! :) I'll take a second look at it. You've been very helpful ^.^ 04:51:48 "A symbol may have any character in its name. " 04:52:05 -!- newToLisp234 [~Dylan@c-98-255-202-231.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Thank you all!] 04:52:47 -!- Guthur [~Michael@host81-131-241-198.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Computer says no] 04:55:01 rabar [~jonathans@129-2-175-87.wireless.umd.edu] has joined #lisp 04:56:46 i want to have an expression that checks if x=y=z (where x,y,z are numbers) but I can't simply do (equal x y z) ... whats another simple way to check? 05:00:29 rabar: (= x y z)? 05:00:46 thanks! 05:05:39 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.92.23.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:08:58 stassats` [~stassats@178.66.31.186] has joined #lisp 05:08:59 -!- stassats` [~stassats@178.66.31.186] has quit [Changing host] 05:08:59 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 05:10:37 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:10:57 longkid [~longkid@113.22.183.219] has joined #lisp 05:11:57 hello 05:21:06 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@mk093111074152.a1.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 05:26:54 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-187-103.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:38:36 -!- rabar [~jonathans@129-2-175-87.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Quit: rabar] 05:54:19 vng [~user@123.20.74.63] has joined #lisp 05:55:59 -!- longkid [~longkid@113.22.183.219] has left #lisp 05:57:50 -!- reprore_ [~reprore@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:00:36 gavino [~g@207-180-177-44.c3-0.bkl-ubr1.sbo-bkl.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 06:03:35 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.67.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:07:16 -!- jleija [~jleija@adsl-91-4-114.chs.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:07:34 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:07:37 Oddity [~Oddity@66.183.67.202] has joined #lisp 06:07:38 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@66.183.67.202] has quit [Changing host] 06:07:38 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 06:14:16 balooga [~00u4440@adsl-76-194-233-139.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:21:05 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.135] has joined #lisp 06:22:32 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 06:23:47 -!- mik8y [~user@112.154.21.142] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:25:15 drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-30.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:26:31 -!- frontiers [~jackb@139.79-160-22.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:27:21 frontiers [~jackb@139.79-160-22.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 06:30:06 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.73.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:30:28 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.73.196] has joined #lisp 06:31:34 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:32:10 setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:32:41 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 06:33:01 -!- lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 06:34:17 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:38:51 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 06:44:42 pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.196.209] has joined #lisp 06:51:14 lisp! 06:51:17 its pisser! 06:51:22 hunchentoot! 06:52:30 spiff [~wim@78-20-14-180.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 06:54:22 -!- wvdschel [~wim@78-20-14-180.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:54:27 -!- spiff is now known as wvdschel 06:58:35 Axius [~hi@92.82.66.25] has joined #lisp 07:00:39 holophrastic! 07:01:46 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 07:06:56 when you know lisp does python seem like "its for fags!" 07:06:58 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.73.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:07:11 and java seem like "its for dooshbags!" 07:07:36 I think that homosexuals usually can't spell "it's" properly. 07:07:43 Good luck with explaining that to your parents. 07:08:07 uh 07:08:12 I wish I were gay 07:08:18 nonstop orgies n fun 07:08:23 chasing girls sucks 07:08:43 Just go and practice, elsewhere. 07:09:11 hey is it a bad move to read sicp if I want to use common lisp in the end? 07:09:33 No. 07:09:42 -!- tompa [~tompa@h59ec27fb.sehjjak.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:11:05 lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 07:13:34 if I want my lisp program to run on a 4 core box what is a nice way to do it? 07:14:37 With a lisp implementation. 07:16:02 oh so the lisp implementation will have some way? 07:18:48 oh hi gavino. why do you keep coming back? 07:18:57 love lisp 07:27:27 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Krystof 07:27:35 -!- Krystof has set mode +b *!*g@207-180-177-44.c3-0.bkl-ubr1.sbo-bkl.ma.cable.rcn.com 07:27:47 -!- Krystof has set mode -o Krystof 07:28:17 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-156-201-110.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: night] 07:30:56 can i make #'format print the full package-name:symbol-name for a given symbol? 07:32:24 tompa [~tompa@h59ec27fb.sehjjak.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #lisp 07:34:10 if know one asweres you: (let ((*package* (find-package :keyword))) (format t "~S" t)) 07:35:11 of course youd put keywowrd package in a constant to not call find-package 07:35:18 mrSpec: "Sorry, the paste numbered 97292 expired 7 hours, 15 minutes ago." <-- the hell did you do that for? 07:37:09 dmiles_afk: why a constant and not a let? 07:38:02 (defconstant *KEYWORD-PACKAGE* (find-package :keyword)) 07:38:31 (let ((*package* *KEYWORD-PACKAGE* )) (format t "T is ~S NIL is ~S format is ~S ~%" t nil 'format)) 07:39:50 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:39:59 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 07:40:34 -!- potatishandlarn [potatishan@c-d28472d5.026-58-73746f25.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [] 07:40:59 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 07:40:59 dto: so still uses a let 07:41:07 Amadiro [~whoppix@ti0021a380-dhcp1747.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 07:45:10 -!- snorble [~none@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has left #lisp 07:46:17 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 07:46:35 -!- Axius [~hi@92.82.66.25] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:46:41 dmiles_afk: thanks for your help. btw it prints COMMON-LISP:NIL everywhere. but i guess gzip will take care of that. 07:47:03 :) 07:54:29 if that part really bugs oyu you can make a new package and import nil into it 07:54:44 and use that as your letted context 07:55:20 ok another question. given an array (possibly 2 dimensional) i would like to create a new array of the same dimensions with some function called on each 07:56:11 I used clbuild a while ago, is that still used? what about mudballs? 07:58:19 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 07:58:45 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 07:59:32 potatishandlarn [potatishan@c-d28472d5.026-58-73746f25.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 08:00:58 fhc [~fhc@c-71-227-234-97.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:01:33 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:02:03 -!- gavino [~g@207-180-177-44.c3-0.bkl-ubr1.sbo-bkl.ma.cable.rcn.com] has left #lisp 08:08:38 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 08:09:22 -!- hefner [~root@ppp-61-90-103-94.revip.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:11:57 -!- HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:15:31 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:18:29 clbuild ist still the #lisp way to go 08:18:52 newToLisp234 [~Dylan@c-98-255-202-231.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:19:14 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-198-42.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 08:20:48 Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 08:22:35 Morning! I'm hoping someone might be able to help me with a (hopefully) simple issue of debugging Lisp code. I'm running Emacs + SLIME and CLISP, and every time I run into a compilation error, it appears as if CLISP locks up: next time I try to compile, Emacs indicates that CLISP is busy, then eventually says the connection closed unexpectedly. I keep having to M-x slime every time I want to re-compile after an error! What noob mis 08:23:01 -!- cmm- [~cmm@bzq-79-181-198-42.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:27:07 the slime backend for clisp would need some strong overhaul 08:27:21 I suggest you move to another implementation. What is your platform? 08:28:56 If you're on SLIME HEAD (checkout from cvs), and a recentish clisp, you can also write to the slime-devel mailing list, including the exact error, backtrace, etc. (which may reside in the *inferior-lisp* buffer) 08:29:03 tcr: I'm on Ubuntu 9.10 - I've read good things about SBCL, used Allegro CL on Windows as part of Lispbox, and open to w/e 08:29:19 Yes, I suggest you use SBCL, or perhaps ClozureCL 08:30:08 newToLisp234: First: checkout slime from cvs 08:30:29 tcr: All right, thank you! Should I just uninstall CLISP and install SBCL, or is there some other config needed? I'm afraid I'm new to Emacs, Slime, Lisp.... 08:31:04 Well, important bit is that you do not use the Ubuntu package of Slime 08:31:13 tcr: It's that old? >.> 08:31:27 and if you're going to uninstall that, make sure you purge it, and the cl-swank package 08:31:48 newToLisp234: the lazy bastards behind slime don't do releases, and it's kind of a fast-moving target 08:32:00 tcr: Heh, okay. Thank you - I'll do that now :) 08:33:07 newToLisp234: Actually, wait. Make sure to purge (not just remove!) the slime and cl-swank package right now 08:33:10 then: 08:33:13 minion: clbuild 08:33:13 clbuild: clbuild is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 08:33:47 that will get you slime, sbcl, etc, all fresh from CVS, and a bunch of other libraries, too 08:34:38 tcr: LOL minion ... awesome. I'll check out clbuild - thank you. And I thought CVS would risk more instability as compared to "stable" releases? (Obviously a moot point with SLIME if they don't bother with releases...) 08:37:20 newToLisp234: With a few notorious exceptions, most of the Lisp folks don't bother with real release management. You usually checkout your needed universe, use that universe for months, then if something changed in a way that deeply interests you (new feature, bug fixed you stumbled over, etc.), you update your whole universe, and may have to tweak a little bit for breakage 08:38:39 -!- fhc [~fhc@c-71-227-234-97.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 08:39:50 longkid [~longkid@113.22.183.219] has joined #lisp 08:41:14 tcr: Interesting. I'm only beginning to adjust to Lisp, so I'm still thinking in terms of C++, Java, etc. To get clbuild it looks like I have to get darcs, am I right? 08:41:45 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:41:55 Yep, and git, too 08:42:20 Lispers use all kind of revision control systems, and clbuild is just a shellscript which uses the appropriate tool to fetch the upstream sources 08:42:25 D'oh, thank you. Missed that one. Thank you. 08:42:33 svn, perhaps, too 08:43:05 Ah, all right. I'd never heard of darcs - and I *thought* I'd heard of most of them. 08:44:27 Athas` [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 08:46:19 -!- Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:50:56 newToLisp pasted "Darcs: CRC Issue" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97301 08:51:50 tcr: Ran into a possible CRC issue? See paste for details. Thank you again for your help! 08:53:52 darcs gzcrcs --check checks 3 entries, doesn't report any errors. Wonder if no CRC was supplied. >.> 08:55:43 I think I'm getting those to and it works for me regardless 08:56:31 it's a bug from previous darcs versions.. just --repair 08:56:45 rares [~rares@174-26-92-226.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 08:56:50 -!- rares1 [~rares@174-26-92-226.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:57:04 "Versions of darcs >=1.0.4 and <2.2.0 had a bug that caused compressed files with bad CRCs (but valid data) to be written out. CRCs were not checked on reading, so this bug wasn't noticed." 08:57:04 08:58:02 tcr, adeht: Thank you! 09:01:01 -!- Athas` [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:01:08 when I use (return result), I compile my file. This error occurs ==> 09:01:11 ; (RETURN-FROM NIL BOARD) 09:01:13 ; 09:01:15 ; caught ERROR: 09:01:17 ; return for unknown block: NIL 09:01:23 I don't know the reason 09:02:36 longkid: If you want to return from a function, you have to use (return-from function-name nil) 09:03:12 beach: yes, I did it and the error is solved 09:03:21 longkid: return-from returns from a block with a particular name. return is just shorthand for (return-from nil ) 09:03:58 beach: OK, I see 09:04:00 longkid: An unnamed loop introduces an implicit block named nil, and a function introduces an implicit block with the name of the function. 09:04:14 -!- pkhuong [~pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:04:32 tcr: Okay, I have everything apparently working with clbuild (I believe). Obviously I should be getting slime; are there any others I need to be installing? 09:04:58 newToLisp234: You can install them as you need them. 09:05:07 newToLisp234: What kind of development are you doing? 09:05:24 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:07:08 beach: I'm just learning Lisp, and doing so for my own benefit (not for school/job/etc.) - I guess my type of development at current is ... hello world? ;) 09:07:14 beach: b/c we don't rely so much on global variable. Therefore, in every function using global variable, I should pass an argument to it instead of using global var. Right? 09:07:37 fisxoj [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban.inka-online.net] has joined #lisp 09:10:54 longkid: I'm no Lisp expert, but as I understand it, Lisp can do significantly more with global variables than other languages, and, like with other languages, it can be a detriment to clarity to use a dozen arguments when one global variable will do. Closures, though, may solve your problem entirely, depending on the situation. Do you know what they are, if I may ask? 09:12:46 newToLisp234: what is closure? 09:15:12 longkid: As I understand it, a closure is when code run from the scope of a variable references it from (seemingly) outside its scope. Example: 09:16:09 -!- wvdschel [~wim@78-20-14-180.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 09:16:45 In a function, a local variable a is declared. Within the scope of a, another function, let's call it b, is called. Function b can refer to variable a, even though, in many languages, it would be considered to be out of scope. Similarly, you can return variable a and it remains in memory as long as there's a reference to it. I hope that makes sense. 09:18:12 longkid: I apologize if links to sites are frowned upon here, but this link may help you - I recommend the entire book this is from, but at least scroll to the section "Lexical Variables and Closures". http://gigamonkeys.com/book/variables.html 09:18:48 longkid: Thanks a lot! I understand what you mean. 09:20:06 longkid: You're welcome - I hope that helps! 09:20:51 beach: Are you free tonight? I want to ask you sth about unit declaration so that I can modify my functions relating to units. 09:20:57 alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 09:22:21 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:23:25 -!- longkid [~longkid@113.22.183.219] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:27:36 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:29:24 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 09:30:42 -!- Gertm [~Gertm@mail.dzine.be] has left #lisp 09:31:36 -!- tompa [~tompa@h59ec27fb.sehjjak.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:32:46 -!- vng [~user@123.20.74.63] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:36:16 Hm, I'm running into a very basic issue I'm sure, but I'm not sure what it is. The macro expansion of dolist is complaining that count isn't a number, and I don't understand why. I'll put in the pastebin. If anyone can offer any assistance, I thank you in advance! 09:37:22 newToLisp234 pasted "COUNT not a number in DOLIST expansion?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97304 09:38:12 uh that's quite wrong 09:38:33 a) DEFVAR establishes global special bindings, use LET for local lexical bindings 09:38:47 b) why do want to make list-between a macro? 09:39:03 vng [~user@123.20.64.73] has joined #lisp 09:39:22 it's also desirable to return the list if you're intent on making use of it 09:39:34 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7541a6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:40:39 tcr: Oh, right - the scope was because I was getting even more errors when trying to use setf (didn't realize let was preferred). Just for testing. I made list-between a macro because, well, I wanted to practice making macros. And I thought pushing returned the list ... or does dotimes not return the last statement? I forget - most of the control macros seem to 09:41:35 newToLisp234: when you want to find out about a Common Lisp operator, have a look at the Common Lisp HyperSpec.. don't guess 09:41:40 clhs dotimes 09:41:41 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_dotime.htm 09:42:20 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-25-9-144.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 09:43:43 adeht: Thank you! 09:47:12 I'm guessing the reason COUNT is being interpreted as non-numeric is that the argument list for DOLIST is being passed uninterpreted, so LIST-BETWEEN isn't expanded before DOLIST? 09:47:43 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 09:47:48 this has nothing to do with dolist, it has to do with your list-between 09:49:29 you pass `0' (an integer) and `count' (a symbol).. these are not evaluated because list-between is a macro.. then you use `-' with them, i.e. (- 'count '0) 09:51:44 there's no good reason to make list-between a macro, so it should be (defun list-between (start end) (let ((my-list '())) (dotimes (n (- end start)) (push (+ n start) my-list)) (nreverse my-list))) ; presumably, you want it reversed 09:52:46 however, I would write it as (defun list-between (start end) (loop for i from start below end collecting i)) 09:53:20 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:54:39 adeht: Thank you. I'll save the code you've given me and examine it more closely - you've used a number of constructs I haven't the slightest idea about, as I'm still in the beginning stages of learning the language. You've taught me a great deal - thank you for your help! 09:55:23 newToLisp234: like I said, you can always inspect the Common Lisp HyperSpec when a construct that's part of the language is not familiar :) 09:55:57 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:56:17 adeht: Yep - and at this point, I'm still reading through my first Lisp book, and barely even beginning to cover macros, hence trying to incorporate them into my hello world code :) 09:57:12 I know there's an easy way to browse the hyperspec from inside Emacs ... I haven't the slightest idea what it is, though. Might I ask what it is, or would you rather I Google it in the morning? 09:58:15 if you're using SLIME, you can try `C-c C-d h' and it'll browse the clhs for the given operator at point, or ask you for one 09:58:28 (symbol at point, rather) 09:59:20 Okay, that's awesome. Yet another reason I'm glad I'm using SLIME. Thank you! 09:59:49 newToLisp234: C-c C-m will macroexpand the form at point, e.g. place your cursor in front of the |(list-between and press C-c C-m 10:04:58 amaron [~amaron@cable-188-2-22-192.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 10:05:26 tcr: Thank you! 10:06:59 fatblueduck [~duck@pool-71-104-235-97.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:07:03 Yuuhi [benni@p5483AF94.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:07:20 I thank you all for your help! I'll try not to bother you any more, and I'm definitely off to bed for now. Happy non-denominational Sunday to anyone for whom it is applicable! :) 10:08:15 -!- newToLisp234 [~Dylan@c-98-255-202-231.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 10:08:42 I'm trying to use asdf-install with (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op :asdf-install) 10:08:43 Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 10:08:48 but I'm using cygwin and 10:08:55 clisp and get an error... 10:09:18 OPEN: File #1=#P"/home/duck/defpackage.lisp" does not exist 10:09:39 I'm able to load asdf-install if a start emacs from the asdf-install directory 10:10:19 but is there a way to load asdf-install from other directories? 10:12:15 you can try and figure out why that pathname is passed 10:12:20 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 10:13:19 adeht: that is what I am doing. But do you think I should try using something other than asdf? 10:13:37 adeht: thank you 10:13:43 no.. maybe something other than asdf-install :) 10:13:48 prxq [~mommer@g228081032.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:14:14 adeht: what do you use that is equivalent to asdf-install? 10:14:38 hi 10:14:38 personally I just clone and link the repositories myself 10:14:53 but clbuild works nicely 10:16:01 ok :) 10:17:18 Jabberwockey [~jens@port-11714.pppoe.wtnet.de] has joined #lisp 10:19:48 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 10:20:03 mathrick: cause it was not lisp code. 10:25:29 -!- potatishandlarn [potatishan@c-d28472d5.026-58-73746f25.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [] 10:27:23 tompa [~tompa@h59ec27fb.sehjjak.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #lisp 10:33:41 Davidbrcz [david@212-198-83-2.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 10:34:11 -!- vng [~user@123.20.64.73] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:34:44 Joreji [~thomas@77-20-0-213-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 10:37:06 Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 10:41:13 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 10:42:27 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-78-25-92.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:44:11 bytecolor [~user@adsl-71-137-200-22.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 10:44:50 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 10:48:36 -!- alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 10:48:48 alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 10:59:25 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 10:59:34 -!- tompa [~tompa@h59ec27fb.sehjjak.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 11:06:36 Phoodus [foo@174-26-247-120.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 11:07:09 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 11:08:30 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-78-25-92.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:08:51 tompa [~tompa@h59ec27fb.sehjjak.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has joined #lisp 11:11:17 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 11:18:34 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-78-25-92.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:19:12 sepult` [~levgue@xdsl-87-78-31-55.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:20:38 -!- sepult` is now known as sepult 11:22:14 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-78-31-55.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 11:22:31 -!- saikat [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: saikat] 11:24:18 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-78-31-55.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:28:56 Soulman [~kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 11:42:49 -!- fatblueduck [~duck@pool-71-104-235-97.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 11:42:52 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:48:27 attila_lendvai [~ati@89.135.205.78] has joined #lisp 11:51:52 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 11:56:02 mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has joined #lisp 11:59:10 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.181.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:02:17 Annaa [~Annaa@110.23.99.45] has joined #lisp 12:02:18 http://tinypic.zapto.org/2kn4m8.png?t=1270382067 do my breasts look to big? 12:02:19 -!- Annaa [~Annaa@110.23.99.45] has left #lisp 12:07:23 HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:09:15 Yay winnage! Sort of. 12:09:57 tcr pasted "slime-list-threads on sbcl+whostate support" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97308 12:09:58 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-20-0-213-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:10:26 seems like I made SLEEP consing like mad though :-) 12:10:49 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:11:17 i committed yesterday new slime-list-threads formatting, with labels and all 12:11:28 though i think it won't work on Xemacs 12:11:59 yup I haven't updated yet 12:12:23 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 12:16:47 Joreji [~thomas@77-20-0-213-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 12:21:33 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-20-0-213-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:22:14 -!- p_l [~d5050b81@gateway/web/freenode/x-oqtrxaagyklratbn] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:23:16 is slime even supposed to work on Xemacs? i can't start it 12:23:21 dullard [~user@94-193-162-78.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:24:09 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:25:44 is there a way to show more than one line of the lambda list while typing in emacs/slime? Hrm, is that ElDoc doing that? 12:25:58 there is 12:26:23 (setq slime-autodoc-use-multiline-p t) 12:27:15 but i found constantly jumping modeline annoying 12:28:02 ah, that's better, thanks stassats` 12:28:17 stassats`: I might find that as well 12:29:08 *stassats`* got a bigger display yesterday, but with-open-file still doesn't fit 12:29:34 maybe there should be some command to scroll it 12:29:45 nod, that would be nice 12:31:08 Yup I never came around doing that 12:31:44 -!- Fade [~fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:31:46 Fade [~fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has joined #lisp 12:33:16 mathrick: cause it was not lisp code. <-- so? Expiring things is just stupid and makes life harder 12:33:22 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-188-2-22-192.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:33:43 four lines with w-o-f, still it's nice to see the whole thing 12:34:00 mathrick: ok ;) I'll remeber this 12:34:47 maybe just a command to show the whole thing, not automatically 12:35:33 nod, then you could at least expect the jumping ;) 12:36:21 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 12:36:56 minion: should NASA use the metric system exclusively? 12:36:56 please stop playing with me... i am not a toy 12:37:03 heh 12:37:49 -!- astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:38:00 wonder if anyone has ever written a cl quiz/game in cl 12:38:50 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 12:38:55 like "what's the value of (+ (logxor) (*))"? 12:39:11 What fn would you use to X? What type of object is the symbol Y? 12:39:27 more general knowledge questions 12:39:55 but, TMTOWTDI 12:39:59 nod 12:40:44 Xach started at that 12:40:53 really? 12:41:06 ehu` [~57d44076@gateway/web/freenode/x-fbfxezklogfbqmat] has joined #lisp 12:41:14 hi 12:41:18 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 12:41:19 hi 12:41:20 yup with some pretty nasty questions :-) 12:41:25 ahaha 12:42:11 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has quit [Quit: away!] 12:46:06 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:46:58 So in SBCL all arrays with a fill-pointer are automatically adjustable, too? At least, that's how make-array seems to behave 12:53:16 tcr: that's allowed, I believe. 12:54:11 sure 12:54:43 might still be a bug in make-array's frobbing of the keyword parameters 12:54:53 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-42-185.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:57:01 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-60-148.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 12:58:32 slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0B1FA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:01:36 amaron [~amaron@cable-188-2-16-49.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 13:01:58 Guthur [~Michael@host217-42-130-127.range217-42.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:03:21 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.166.89.182] has joined #lisp 13:09:46 how does one recognize ASDF1 from ASDF2? 13:10:01 Someone mailed the armedbear mailing list asking where to find ASDF2 13:10:19 asdf2 puts :asdf2 onto *features* 13:10:41 it's described in the manual, but the one on the website wasn't updated yet 13:11:15 ok. and the version on the website isn't ASDF2 yet, is it? 13:11:24 I mean, the tar archive 13:11:36 the git repo Blake pulled from is the right one 13:11:46 ok. :-) 13:11:50 I don't know what made him think it's asdf1, perhaps because the package is still ASDF 13:12:27 he should rather use a git url rather than http though 13:13:21 i.e. git clone git://common-lisp.net/projects/asdf/asdf.git 13:13:34 it's orders of magnitudes faster 13:14:24 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 13:14:37 I'll tell him that. thanks! 13:19:36 tcr: he'd like to get ASDF1 from the ASDF repository too. 13:19:50 tcr: is there a branch for that? 13:21:58 i've made slime-autodoc-full, but it lasts only for the current cached form, maybe it should be turned on while the car of the cached form stays the same 13:23:20 Is the SLIME swank protocol documented anywhere, or do I just have to grovel through the source? 13:24:36 the latter 13:25:20 Wonderful. 13:25:27 Anyone know of a high performance integer->string function, write-to-string etc. 13:25:37 isn't cutting it 13:26:05 did you pass :pretty nil? 13:26:16 tcr: that might be it 13:26:19 cheers 13:26:38 ehu`: I don't know sorry. 13:26:40 Why would you write :radix #x10 instead of :radix 16? 13:26:55 Guthur: are you printing large bignums? 13:27:09 potatishandlarn [potatishan@c-d48b72d5.026-58-73746f25.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 13:27:30 quotemstr: 16 depends on the input radix 13:27:36 stassats' no, it might be a possible scenario, but pprint is the main culprit, so maybe tcr's comment might help 13:27:37 16. doesn't 13:27:50 quotemstr: #x10 is explicit, but yeah, the author could also have used 16. 13:29:00 Thanks. 13:29:26 quiz question: "what does . at the end of an integer mean?" 13:29:44 I'm guessing the answer isn't "float literal". 13:30:02 it means that it's read in the base 10. 13:30:29 So [0-9]+. is the same as #10r[0-9]+ ? 13:30:59 right 13:31:05 Fair enough. 13:31:22 stassats`: You should make the whole autodoc go into the cache 13:31:32 in case of autodoc-full 13:31:53 though that's probably still not sticky enough 13:32:09 but turns out not many know about trailing dot and it may be confusing 13:32:23 It's also hard to see. 13:32:33 could you show me the patch before comitting? 13:33:02 mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has joined #lisp 13:34:37 -!- tcr [~tcr@host178.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:35:15 tcr [~tcr@host178.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 13:36:24 stassats` pasted "slime-autodoc-full" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97312 13:36:51 tcr: the change in slime-autodoc is just removing not needed variable, since cond returns non-nil condition value 13:38:42 koning_robot [~aap@88.159.110.31] has joined #lisp 13:38:45 that can be made simpler 13:39:04 make slime-autodoc take an &optional multilinep which defaults to the global var 13:39:09 make it pass that to slime-format-autodoc 13:39:18 that should be it 13:39:20 i tried just calling slime-autodoc, but it uses async and multiline-p is out of scope then 13:39:49 yeah but that's easy just do the multilinep default in the lexical-let 13:41:33 and i still don't like slime-autodoc-full in that form, since it goes back to uniline when you start typing 13:42:08 though it's better than nothing 13:42:36 yes that's why I said it's not sticky enough yet 13:43:04 at least with it in it'll have the chance to annoy me so much that I'll do it properly :-) 13:44:17 I'm doing some physics calculations in lisp and I figured it would be nice if I redefined some basic arithmetic operators like #'+ to deal with vectors. Is this a reasonable idea or is it madness? 13:44:32 stassats`: I'd bind it to C-c + 13:44:57 i have to press shift to go + 13:44:58 perhaps C-c C-d + 13:45:12 well I don't :-) 13:45:36 how is it on qwerty? 13:45:38 mik8y [~user@112.154.21.142] has joined #lisp 13:45:49 koning_robot: it's not madness, but i don't find it reasonable either 13:46:11 When using (loop (format t "Beginning sleep~%") (sleep 5) (format t "Ending sleep~%")), I noticed that the output of beginning and ending isn't being printed to the screen at all. Is there a reason for this? 13:46:24 i'm on us qwerty, i believe 13:46:59 TDT: flush the stream? it's printed somewhere else? 13:47:14 TDT: do you try that in a thread, using Slime? 13:47:52 tcr: No, I didn't try that, and stassats` - I could try that, but I was just more curious why it wouldn't print. 13:48:02 dlowe [~dlowe@c-71-232-16-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:14 because the output stream may be buffered 13:48:26 stassats`: ok + indeed sucks on us qwerty 13:48:36 though usually it's line buffered 13:49:30 stassats`: I think autodoc should be on its own key which works regardless of slime-autodoc-mode 13:49:40 stassats`: and pressing that key twice means display full 13:50:04 (actually, on cache hit, display full) 13:50:29 and it should have the C-c C-d prefix 13:50:33 figure something out 13:51:11 that's the hardest part 13:51:47 the two hardest things in programming: coming up with a project name and figuring reasonable key-bindigns 13:52:13 this may be worth bringing up the project I'm working on and seeing if maybe I'm approaching this wrong. I'm trying to develop a small cron-like facility to pull emails from a certain folder, and determine the necessity of being notified right away vs every day. This is something that just sits on an imap folder through a work bugs folder. There are 4 types of errors, I figured that a loop that would go pull the emails, on ones that 13:52:13 don't exist in the cache, determine how important they are, then send out notifications of the really important ones. Every day after say 10 PM or so, provide a daily "digest" of who recevied the most errors in the system, what ones are more important than others, then email that out. 13:52:37 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:54:34 The actual loop itself is something like: (loop (dolist (x *cron-listings) (when (< (+ (interval x) (lastrun x)) (get-universal-time)) (run-action x))) (sleep *seconds-to-sleep*)), pretty much sums it up, and each cron has its own actions to perform. 13:55:12 err forgot when I set the lastrun, but still pretty close to what I'm working with right now. 13:59:05 -!- potatishandlarn [potatishan@c-d48b72d5.026-58-73746f25.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:59:09 stassats`: I didn't notice the interplay with autodoc-message-dimension 13:59:26 that may need some thought 14:00:00 potatishandlarn [potatishan@c-d48b72d5.026-58-73746f25.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 14:00:11 stassats`: seems to me you want to use the window-width always for :print-right-margin 14:00:24 stassats`: and in case multinep is nil, slime-oneliner should substitute all newlines for spaces 14:00:25 Bit of a long shot...Any ideas how to improve the performance of cffi:lisp-string-to-foreign 14:01:02 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 14:01:27 stassats`: doing it that way will also fix some bug, misusing *print-right-margin* like we did is fragile 14:01:46 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:01:56 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 14:02:01 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 14:02:10 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 14:03:02 stassats`: re keybinding: I'd move slime-apropos from C-c C-d a to C-c C-d A, and make autodoc C-c C-d a 14:04:32 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:09:44 -!- Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:11:03 tcr: ok, noted 14:12:50 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 14:12:50 Reav_ [~Sarge@h3f04.n1.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 14:13:36 Joreji [~thomas@77-20-0-213-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 14:13:45 -!- Reav_ [~Sarge@h3f04.n1.ips.mtn.co.ug] has quit [Client Quit] 14:16:25 benny` [~benny@i577A3AE9.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 14:17:15 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:17:45 -!- benny [~benny@i577A1735.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:19:46 -!- benny` is now known as benny 14:19:46 p_l [plasek@gateway/shell/rootnode.net/x-tzpiijlmumsdeziv] has joined #lisp 14:24:14 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-188-2-16-49.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:29:29 Axius [~hi@92.82.91.25] has joined #lisp 14:29:53 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:35:17 hugod_ [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279632993.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:35:31 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440291.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:35:31 -!- hugod_ is now known as hugod 14:37:13 -!- adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-245-197.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:44:33 longkid [~longkid@113.22.183.219] has joined #lisp 14:44:50 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban.inka-online.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:45:24 suczker [~suczker@gprs24.vodafone.cz] has joined #lisp 14:50:53 -!- stassats` changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: ECL 10.4.1, SBCL 1.0.37, ABCL 0.19.1, CLSQL 5.0.5 14:52:30 somecodehere [~ingvar@16.198.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 14:57:41 -!- Axius [~hi@92.82.91.25] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:01:50 -!- somecodehere [~ingvar@16.198.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:02:05 The keyword 'across' is used for accessing all elements of a list. Is that right? 15:05:05 no, across is for vectors 15:05:11 see http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/loop-for-black-belts.html 15:05:33 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-156-201-110.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 15:06:19 ok. I see 15:06:55 to loop over list elements use "in", or "on" to loop over successive cons cells 15:08:54 yes. the link you send me is the book PCL? 15:09:03 yes 15:09:36 I've read it. But I see that the link is not the same to PCL 15:12:38 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:13:32 Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-179-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:13:32 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-179-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:13:32 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 15:14:43 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-198-42.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:18:58 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:20:11 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.166.89.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:23:10 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 15:23:20 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:24:18 bytecolor: yes 15:30:02 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:30:12 julianoliver [~julian@f052137161.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 15:31:31 bytecolor: you have some nice ideas! let's collaborate 15:37:53 -!- mik8y [~user@112.154.21.142] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:39:52 -!- Davidbrcz [david@212-198-83-2.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:40:41 alama [~alama@a95-95-130-170.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 15:42:36 -!- stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-cpuiuhfvbwfvtkof] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:42:38 Xach: oh it was just a thought. I've been reading a little of CLtL2 at least once a day. It would make a interesting program. I saw where the author of the Slime video (forget his name) tried to start a weekly/monthly? quiz through a mailing list. I think it died though. 15:44:02 porcelina [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:44:47 On thing about a quiz program, it's both finished and never finished. You could always add to it or leave it to rot for a year. I don't think there are any plans to change cl any time soon? 15:44:52 bytecolor: i hadn't seen that effort. i'm trying to put together about 100 multiple-choice questions about obscure-ish bits of CL. then i'd like people to battle for scores in an online quiz. or something. 15:45:04 bytecolor: exactly. i'm in no rush. i've been collecting interesting things as i come across them. 15:45:22 -!- longkid [~longkid@113.22.183.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:46:33 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 15:46:46 from my perspective, it would be more geared towards a novice (like me) ;) 15:46:56 Xach: do you have anything online? 15:48:33 -!- quotemstr [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: quotemstr] 15:49:26 stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-pwimzsimyeuccugt] has joined #lisp 15:53:11 netytan [~netytan@85.211.10.7] has joined #lisp 15:54:32 -!- bytecolor is now known as bytecolo` 15:55:38 -!- ehu` [~57d44076@gateway/web/freenode/x-fbfxezklogfbqmat] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:59:02 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:00:40 mik8y [~user@112.154.21.142] has joined #lisp 16:02:00 pkhuong [~pkhuong@modemcable238.100-176-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 16:03:03 Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-179-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:03:03 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-179-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:03:03 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 16:03:09 ikki [~ikki@189.139.181.2] has joined #lisp 16:03:44 -!- stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-pwimzsimyeuccugt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:03:58 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 16:04:28 Xach, bytecolo`: it could be targeting both sides, with extra "difficulty" info for each question 16:04:45 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [] 16:05:01 bytecolo`: no. 16:06:44 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 16:08:06 fisxoj [~fisxoj@80.153.54.203] has joined #lisp 16:08:15 -!- julianoliver [~julian@f052137161.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:09:09 julianoliver [~julian@f052137161.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:09:31 -!- HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:11:36 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:13:58 *p_l* just noticed that he had two orphaned lisp images running ^^; (some mishap with SLIME) 16:14:54 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:19:48 do you guys know a way to make slime connect to the existing *inferior-lisp* by default (rather than asking me whether or not to create a new one) 16:21:07 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 16:21:44 bytecolo`: you could check out the littler lisper for some question ideas 16:21:53 er little schemer 16:22:20 derrida: You cannot do that unless you have (setf swank:*dont-close* t) in your ~/.swank.lisp 16:23:20 Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-179-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:20 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-179-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:23:20 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 16:23:52 stassats`: how is it going? 16:24:31 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 16:24:43 tcr: i've just came back from a bicycle ride, so it wasn't going 16:25:41 stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-rqosuysdsrnrtjdx] has joined #lisp 16:25:45 In the output from time what does system usually represent 16:25:49 tcr: i've been using this .. hehe .. in my .emacs which does get me a *slime-repl sbcl-noclose*. i'll try *dont-close* instead (or together) 16:25:58 tcr: oops: http://www.pasteit4me.com/307002 16:26:01 I went from having next to know system time to having 10 seconds 16:26:16 And quite figure out what is causing it 16:27:51 Guthur: the shell command `time`? 16:28:15 derrida, CL time function 16:29:57 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:30:22 jsnell: I think I'd just need the not-simple-yet-not-displaced array work :-/ 16:30:59 ah its fixed 16:31:27 Actually I need stack-allocated strings with a fill-pointer, so one can do non-consing string munging 16:32:02 shame 16:32:05 Something was wrong with the database file 16:32:38 tcr: allocation pool. 16:32:57 wait, wouldn't you need to have something heap allocated so you can return the value of your string munging? 16:33:40 sure the end result will be heap-allocated, but I don't see any way to get a general string representation of an object allocated on the stack 16:34:17 the string representation allocated on the stack 16:34:35 so I can put it into an pre-allocated target string on the heap 16:35:04 put it == copying 16:36:33 -!- stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-rqosuysdsrnrtjdx] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:36:35 See: http://paste.lisp.org/display/97308 16:37:00 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-20-0-213-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:37:22 Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-179-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:37:22 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-179-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:37:22 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 16:37:29 at the moment that conses; I want to pre-allocate a string buffer in the target-whostate slot, and only work on that. 16:37:39 s/target-whostate/thread-whostate/ 16:38:21 -!- boyscared [~bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:40:29 -!- rread [~rread@nat/sun/x-qlfcsbserrkqyhho] has quit [Quit: rread] 16:42:02 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:47:24 -!- julianoliver [~julian@f052137161.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:48:10 -!- netytan [~netytan@85.211.10.7] has quit [Quit: netytan] 16:49:42 -!- mik8y [~user@112.154.21.142] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:51:40 julianoliver [~julian@f052137161.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:53:21 mik8y [~user@112.154.21.142] has joined #lisp 16:58:00 -!- balooga [~00u4440@adsl-76-194-233-139.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:59:56 pkhuong pasted "Improved single-float-bits ?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97316 17:00:29 how's that look? 17:00:46 amaron [~amaron@cable-188-2-16-49.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 17:06:15 -!- julianoliver [~julian@f052137161.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:11:49 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p4FF0B1FA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:20:15 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 17:21:34 -!- dullard [~user@94-193-162-78.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:25:15 -!- bbeecher [~user@74.72.202.58] has left #lisp 17:25:40 What's better regarding SBCL optimizations, flet closing over some variable it operates on, or passing it explicitly as parameter? 17:26:44 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:27:54 Is there a way to make slime automatically try a certain restart on certain types of errors (for example recompiling sbcl files that were compiled by a different versions) 17:28:23 derrida: never mind slime, just set up a *debugger-hook* 17:28:36 derrida: use asdf-binary-location 17:28:37 but slime uses *debugger-hook* 17:29:18 http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Automatic-Recompilation-of-Stale-Fasls.html 17:29:39 tmh [~user@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 17:29:45 Greetings, lispers. 17:29:52 tcr: ah, cool, ty. 17:29:58 kpreid: stassats` ty 17:30:28 three answers to the problem at three levels! 17:30:38 Do I have to resort to the MOP to figure out the superclass of an object? 17:31:22 I'm looking for something equivalent to CLASS-OF, like SUPERCLASS-OF. 17:31:34 Edward [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-58-183.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:31:41 tcr: depends: is the binding mutated? does the fleted function get passed as an argument? 17:31:54 derrida: If you use upstream asdf, the successor of asdf-binary-location comes included 17:32:05 tmh: class-direct-superclasses? 17:32:19 pkhuong: the binding not, only its value; nope it's only called directly in the body 17:32:30 several times 17:32:43 stassats`: So I do have to resort to the MOP? 17:32:47 -!- Krystof [~csr21@host86-180-235-163.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:32:50 I doubt there's a performance difference. 17:32:51 tmh: yes 17:32:57 Joreji [~thomas@77-20-0-213-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 17:33:03 I think the explicit argument may get better regalloc. 17:33:47 stassats`: Thanks, not what I was hoping for 17:34:04 tmh: MOP is bad for you? 17:34:30 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:36:11 stassats`: (1) I'm trying to work within the standard, (2) I'm not proficient with the MOP, and (3) if I use the MOP I'll probably end up using closer-mop or whatever it's called and I was trying to minimize dependencies. 17:36:17 (typep (make-array nil :element-type nil) 'string) => NIL, (typep (make-array 0 :element-type nil) 'string) => T 17:36:52 tcr: yes? 17:37:24 hm ok the former is not even a vector :-) 17:37:30 makes sense 17:37:52 rdd [~user@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 17:37:56 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:02 I need a dummy string object, I wonder if I should use the latter :-) 17:38:23 tmh: do you need it to be portable? i usually have #+sbcl sb-mop:class-direct-superclasses #+ccl ccl:class-direct-superclasses and leave porting to other implementation to whoever cares about it 17:39:55 stassats`: portability is a goal. My targets of interest are SBCL, LispWorks, and CCL, in that order. But, it is my intent to leave the door open for other implementations. 17:41:29 -!- mik8y [~user@112.154.21.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:42:02 if you can live without class-direct-superclasses, fine, but otherwise you'd have no choice 17:42:17 francogrex [~user@155.111-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 17:43:17 stassats`: For now I can. I think down the road I'll end up using the MOP, but for now I'm focusing on the API and fundamental functionality. 17:43:37 I'll use the MOP for polish. 17:44:00 tmh: why do you need to know the list of superclasses? (or the class, for that matter) 17:44:31 -!- joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has quit [Quit: brb] 17:46:49 I'm performing an operation on 2 classes and need to determine the proper class for the result. So, I'm implementing a function (common-class-of object1 object2 &optional default-class). Right now, the function is pretty crude. Down the road, I could utilize the MOP to make it smarter and get rid of the optional default-class. 17:48:08 is the set of possible classes for the result known ahead of time? 17:48:47 pkhuong: No, because I'm trying to account for subclasses that have yet to be written. 17:48:52 is it really much better than making the programmer provide the result's class explicitly? 17:50:18 Krystof [~csr21@host86-180-235-163.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 17:50:27 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:50:52 I think so. The idea is that if someone subclasses the object, they can put off writing a method specialized for the new subclass until they have time. The idea is that they can rely on the method specialized on the superclass despite it having poor performance until they absolutely need to write their own specialized version. 17:51:37 Consequently, I'm ending up having to put a little more work into the logic of the superclass specialized method. 17:52:41 johnzorn [~jz@206-248-152-254.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 17:53:22 can't the overly generic method return a result of an overly generic class? 17:53:36 You're doing this for convenience anyway. 17:54:06 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:54:08 my slime setup isnt sending standard output to the REPL, instead it goes to *inferior-lisp* buffer. how do I change it to the REPL? 17:54:12 That's what I originally doing, and maybe I should resort back to doing that, but I got the idea that I could be clever and have the method return the correct result. 17:54:23 Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-179-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:54:24 s/result/class/ 17:54:24 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-179-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:54:24 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 17:55:12 pkhuong: The interesting thing is that when I started thinking about COMMON-CLASS-OF in the general sense, I realized how difficult it is to implement because of multiple inheritence. 17:55:28 I'm trying something admittedly not very useful but still may be interesting: http://paste.lisp.org/display/97318 17:55:41 You could expose common-class-of as a generic function, I guess. 17:56:35 pkhuong: That occurred to me, but I wasn't sure exactly how that would work in the general sense. It would work for my specific case, which may be sufficient. 17:56:57 -!- Krystof [~csr21@host86-180-235-163.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:58:02 I don't think there's a right way to implement what you want, but it does let you get some cleverness at little expense. 17:58:31 johnzorn: using threads? 17:58:44 Axius [~hi@92.85.208.5] has joined #lisp 18:01:21 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 18:02:22 boyscared [~bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:03:28 tcr, how do I tell? 18:04:02 ~. 18:04:19 johnzorn: I mean does output you try to print from within threads go to the inferior-lisp buffer? 18:07:46 does it make sense? 18:13:46 daniel [~daniel@p5082E782.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:14:02 balooga [~00u4440@76.194.233.139] has joined #lisp 18:14:10 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:15:23 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-25-9-144.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 18:15:57 pastorn [~alexander@aoeu.csbnet.se] has joined #lisp 18:16:54 -!- daniel___ [~daniel@p5082D171.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:17:16 oh, I probably forgot to remove my invisibility cloak 18:18:00 balooga1 [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 18:18:16 -!- balooga [~00u4440@76.194.233.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:19:21 Has anyone noticed M-. not working on the newest version of SLIME 18:19:44 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 18:19:53 I get - Symbol's function definition is void: slime-enclosing-form-specs 18:21:13 the slime-mdot-fu contrib (providing M-. to flet/labels functions) has bitrodden and I haven't come around updating it 18:21:54 This was just to functions and methods 18:22:24 M-x toggle-debug-on-error and paste the backtrace 18:23:34 Guthur pasted "SLIME edit def error" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97319 18:23:48 -!- francogrex [~user@155.111-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:24:23 yes you use the slime-mdot-fu contrib 18:24:40 remove it it from the list you pass to slime-setup in your .emacs 18:24:47 Oh ok, sorry, I'll remove 18:25:29 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:25:37 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-60-82-254-198-216.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:26:39 tcr: Cheers, that sorted it out 18:26:55 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:27:00 sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has joined #lisp 18:27:41 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-20-0-213-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:32:09 balooga [~00u4440@adsl-76-194-233-139.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:24 -!- balooga1 [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 259 seconds] 18:36:22 mik8y [~user@112.154.21.142] has joined #lisp 18:36:22 -!- balooga [~00u4440@adsl-76-194-233-139.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:37:18 -!- mik8y [~user@112.154.21.142] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:37:33 ska` [~user@124.157.253.207] has joined #lisp 18:37:43 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 18:38:14 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 18:41:07 hefner [~root@ppp-61-90-82-40.revip.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 18:44:10 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:44:41 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-24-82-64-151-19.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:16 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@89.135.205.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:46:28 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 18:47:56 Joreji [~thomas@77-20-0-213-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 18:49:38 tcr, I'm not sure if I'm printing from within threads. When I startup emacs and do a M-x slime and slime boots. typing (format t "hi!") in the REPL displays NIL in the REPL and hi! in *inferior-lisp* buffer. 18:50:51 what implementation? 18:51:24 emacs 22.2.1 gtk+ version 2.18.3 18:51:39 johnzorn: what implementation of lisp? 18:52:21 this could be a trick question, if he's not running the slime-repl =p 18:53:52 gnu clisp 2.44.1 (2008-02-23) 18:55:00 are you on slime head? I recall that I fixed something along that line a while ago 18:55:12 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:55:32 johnzorn: Also, if you're on Linux, use SBCL, on windows CCL, on mac either ccl or sbcl 18:55:53 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 18:56:03 Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:56:10 tcr, sbcl is considered better ? 18:56:26 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 18:56:31 better for what? 18:56:33 at least it works better with slime 18:56:35 make sure to checkout slime from cvs (and purge, not just remove, the installed slime and cl-swank packages) -- even better: use clbuild to grab all the cl stuff 18:56:50 don't forget to purge, though 18:58:53 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-188-2-16-49.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:59:55 the xcvb internals are so awkward. I wonder if using sheeple instead of clos would help. Or some other design for building DSLs. 19:00:54 -!- Axius [~hi@92.85.208.5] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:01:28 gah, sbcl really enforces logical pathname syntax invariants even when you use make-pathname instead of parse-namestring. That sucks. 19:02:51 yepp, Krystof was thorough :) 19:04:56 -!- rares [~rares@174-26-92-226.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:05:11 varjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:05:40 using sbcl instead of clisp seems to have fixed it... 19:05:46 thanks 19:10:12 *Fare* would have liked to use unreadable and unprintable but richer logical pathnames. Oh well. No logical pathnames for xcvb. 19:14:26 jao [~jao@83.43.35.213] has joined #lisp 19:14:47 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 19:16:26 -!- bdowning [~bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:16:56 bdowning [~bdowning@mnementh.lavos.net] has joined #lisp 19:17:48 tmh` [~user@72-161-201-169.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:24 -!- tmh [~user@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:18:32 okay, my code has a horrible pun-y name 19:18:38 -!- jroes [~jroes@rube.serapio.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:18:49 success is unavoidable 19:19:46 jroes [~jroes@rube.serapio.org] has joined #lisp 19:21:44 -!- Edward [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-58-183.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:21:51 stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-ldcynhsvgwsrufgi] has joined #lisp 19:22:36 -!- Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 19:26:40 Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:34 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-20-0-213-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:30:54 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-185-52.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 19:33:11 -!- pastorn [~alexander@aoeu.csbnet.se] has left #lisp 19:34:31 -!- suczker [~suczker@gprs24.vodafone.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:35:20 _8david`: ping 19:35:23 <_8david`> hi 19:36:41 Edward [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-22-27.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:37:25 bipt` [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:40 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:39:11 WOG [~OsamaBinW@66-168-47-22.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:39:30 -!- ska` [~user@124.157.253.207] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:39:34 _8david`: on which CL implementations do you test hemlock ? 19:41:21 <_8david`> SBCL and CCL on Linux. Only CCL on Windows. 19:41:59 -!- OsamaBinWOG [~OsamaBinW@66-168-47-22.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:42:10 <_8david`> At some point CLISP worked, but it was so remarkably slow that I didn't bother trying it again. 19:42:57 <_8david`> (Even slower than CCL, which feels sluggish but somewhat useble.) 19:46:31 _8david`: i've just pulled commonqt, and executable bit on most files is now set 19:46:55 rvirding [~chatzilla@h80n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 19:48:10 that was done in the "Windows fixes" commit 19:49:37 -!- ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-23-148-227.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:50:05 <_8david`> stassats`: oh dear, that's what I get from using Windows. Fix pushed. 19:50:46 _8david`: does commonqt require kde-4.4? 19:51:27 <_8david`> it doesn't require KDE, but it needs a kdebindings close to that from KDE 4.4, yes 19:51:35 ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-23-158-168.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:52:08 ok, i'll wait till it arrives in my distribution 19:52:12 <_8david`> (Better use the kdebindings svn revision I noted on the commonqt homepage yesterday, until p_l's problem has been fixed.) 19:52:53 Krystof [~csr21@host86-180-235-163.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:53:45 *p_l* ponders bastardising SIP into generating CL wrappers instead of using SMOKE 19:55:19 saikat_ [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:59:16 <_8david`> p_l: which distribution are you on? 19:59:29 _8david`: Arch64 20:00:47 -!- m4thrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:01:08 Edward_ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-39-150.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:02:00 m4thrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 20:02:55 -!- Edward [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-22-27.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:05:36 HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 20:06:53 seelenquell [~kvirc@pD9E43A93.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:08:45 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:10:36 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@cpe-74-68-121-85.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:11:15 "Allegro CL will expire in 666 days" - doom is nigh! 20:13:10 mik8y [~user@112.154.21.142] has joined #lisp 20:13:24 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:14:45 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 20:18:34 kwinz3 [~kwinz@mk093111074152.a1.net] has joined #lisp 20:21:35 vieq_ [~vieq@unaffiliated/vieq] has joined #lisp 20:22:03 -!- vieq_ [~vieq@unaffiliated/vieq] has left #lisp 20:22:42 parolang` [~user@8e4a01246100775874c4f448e9887093.oregonrd-wifi-1261.amplex.net] has joined #lisp 20:24:24 rabar [~jonathans@129-2-175-87.wireless.umd.edu] has joined #lisp 20:24:31 -!- rabar [~jonathans@129-2-175-87.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 20:25:20 -!- mik8y [~user@112.154.21.142] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:31:22 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:32:03 pix4 [~pixel@copei.de] has joined #lisp 20:32:28 -!- Edward_ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-39-150.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 20:36:55 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f7541a6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:38:35 quotemstr [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:38:41 Edward [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-39-150.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:45:17 tcr: hm, i've been trying to experiment with (setf swank:*dont-close* t). afaict, slime still prompts me as to whether or not i would like to start annother inferior lisp and seems to allow me to do so, should this be expected? 20:55:29 marioxcc [~user@200.92.23.113] has joined #lisp 20:56:35 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:59:19 -!- Edward [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-39-150.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:01:59 -!- quotemstr [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 21:04:50 -!- seelenquell [~kvirc@pD9E43A93.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:05:58 -!- saikat_ [~saikat@c-71-202-153-244.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: saikat_] 21:06:42 seelenquell [~kvirc@pD9E42DD2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:08:05 rabar [~jonathans@129-2-175-87.wireless.umd.edu] has joined #lisp 21:09:00 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:09:22 if I have two lists e.g. '(1 2 3) and '(4 5 6) whats the simplest way to generate all possible cross-list combos like (1 4) (1 5) (1 6) (2 4) etc...? 21:09:39 ive thought of using a nested loop but that feels ugly 21:10:47 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:12:17 poincare101 [~poincare1@c-174-58-20-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:12:25 what you guys think of haskell? 21:12:51 i think it's off-topic 21:13:00 -!- poincare101 [~poincare1@c-174-58-20-9.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #lisp 21:13:14 ha 21:13:19 *p_l* seconds stassats` 21:13:37 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 21:13:47 potatishandlarn: otoh, don't let me discourage from learning it, but the proper channel is #haskell :) 21:15:18 stassats` pasted "cross-product" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97326 21:15:24 rabar: that's for you 21:16:04 Clearly, the simplest way it to assign it as a homework problem. 21:16:08 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 21:16:08 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:21b:63ff:fe96:e1ff] has quit [Quit: palter] 21:16:08 stassats` thanks! thats exactly what i was looking for 21:17:07 *stassats`* doesn't remember how many cross products he wrote for #lisp 21:17:19 nyef: is there some way to store information about context in SBCL, so that I could pass a "descriptor" to foreign code that would mark from where it was calleed? 21:17:51 p_l: What are you trying to accomplish? 21:19:24 nyef: another way of dealing with exceptions in C++ - I'm not going to *support* them, I just want a way to signal back to SBCL that "unhandled exception happened, here's what was in, do whatever you want with it" 21:19:37 (then mark it as handled on C++ side, so it doesn't spill) 21:21:31 So... you want to signal a condition in lisp, but... where does the context info come in? 21:24:32 -!- m4thrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:24:40 p_l pasted "C++ exception handling" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97327 21:24:55 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 21:25:46 basically, I want to know how to callback in a way that would clearly mark that I'm "escaping" from the call but with a condition signalled 21:26:58 So, you want a way to call a lisp function to signal a condition, and I'm still not sure what on earth the rest is about? 21:27:19 m4thrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 21:27:42 nyef: did you see the factor post about threads in windows? 21:27:53 http://factor-language.blogspot.com/2010/04/switching-call-stacks-on-different.html 21:28:11 Fare: Nope, haven't seen this yet. Thanks. 21:28:24 nyef: basically, the catch(...) block is a wildcard, which handles all exceptions, so that the contents of the catch block can then tell the lisp side that something happened... 21:28:31 OTOH, I think I've got it 21:28:41 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 21:28:58 instead of using a callback, passing a pointer to foreign struct that only gets filled if the C++ side caught an exception 21:29:10 simpler and more portable 21:30:26 *stassats`* just found in the slime sources C-c E, slime-edit-value, for editing setfable places 21:30:29 looks nice 21:30:29 Fare: ... Interesting. He missed the bit about the stack memory layout to get end-of-stack data, and the nasty problems with the fiber API, but this is good. 21:31:27 -!- Fare [~Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:35:35 nyef: well, I figure I can pass around an "exception state" struct and use it as "out of band" channel for both ways 21:36:55 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:37:50 I think you're overthinking it, but okay. 21:38:21 nyef: nah, over thinking was when I tried to build the necessary ABI dynamically on Lisp side 21:38:30 Heh. 21:38:57 which is possible, but I think I like the last shreds of my sanity to stay there. 21:39:23 (or maybe it's that illusion of sanity that stops me from being admitted to mental hospital) 21:39:38 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:39:54 ska` [~user@124.157.253.207] has joined #lisp 21:40:25 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:41:29 you could even pass CL conditions to C++ and have them travel through C++ exception handling system... but it enters the "eat shit, compiler writers! Someone is using ABI to fuller extent than considered sane!" 21:41:34 territory 21:42:06 *nyef* points out that he has a partial design for doing precisely that. 21:42:36 But we need one feature that's not legal per the usual ABI (but is per windows), and that is to be able to "cancel" an unwind. 21:42:42 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:43:06 nyef: nice 21:43:09 At the same time, it appears that it's -possible- to do so in the common implementations (not that I've tested it, just that it looks good). 21:43:16 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 21:43:32 It's required for proper interop anyway, and a necessity if we're ever going to have sbcl.dll on windows. 21:43:58 well, if we manage to get conformance with G++'s implementation, we would already conquer big part 21:44:25 (since G++ compatibility means we would cover basically all supported unixoid, whether the code was compiled with GCC or not) 21:44:37 The problem is making the backtrace/unwind work for lisp code. 21:44:49 (As foom well knows, I'd imagine.) 21:45:30 Debug support advantages if we can make it happen are pretty sweet, including unwind-to-frame-and-call at all debug levels. 21:45:39 nyef: I was thinking of embedding wildcard handlers at point of entry, and then use __cxa_rethrow() to rethrow it if necessary 21:46:40 -!- prip_ [~foo@host54-133-dynamic.42-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:46:43 TeMPOraL [~temporal@188.147.68.242.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:46:49 You can't unwind through lisp frames, though, unfortunately. You'll probably end up having to play games with assembly code to wedge a debug frame in there to fix up the backtrace. 21:48:16 nyef: well, yeah. For now, I'm just trying to get C++ interop that doesn't include tons of serialization like SMOKE 21:48:45 And mind that you force a lisp unwind if C++ tries to unwind over lisp frames. 21:48:48 and my current, simplified idea still uses autogenerated C++ code 21:49:14 the generated code is there to stop C++ unwind from crossing into lisp frame 21:49:37 Yes, but if you __cxa_rethrow(), would that not cause it to cross over? 21:49:40 cause I'm wary of making a personality routine switch 21:50:38 nyef: __cxa_rethrow only in return from callback (if it returned due to condition, and resignaled through extern "C" wrapper) 21:51:56 I might even use binary blobs and some pointer manipulation to autogenerate the callback wrapper in memory 21:52:07 saikat_ [~saikat@99.13.242.166] has joined #lisp 21:52:24 prip [~foo@host54-133-dynamic.42-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 21:54:36 there's just this big blob of C++ code that has no C wrappers and wasn't apparently written with the idea of interop in mind, that sometimes intersect with "I really *need* that code" area. 21:54:48 and it infurates me to no end 21:55:07 (list includes, unfortunately, GDI+, which apparently uses a C++ interface) 21:55:34 Yeah, it happens sometimes. 21:55:58 One of the reasons I made sure that win32 unwind interop bloody -worked-. 21:56:15 Of course, on win32, said list includes USER32. 21:59:07 dunno about User32, since I haven't really done windows programming except for Delphi (from 2 to 7) and .NET, but I ended up with GDI+ when I was looking for a native CL gui on windows (preferably without installing lots of extra stuff) 21:59:22 p_l: could you not use OGL instead of GDI+, windows comes with it anyway 21:59:38 Guthur: OGL will cause issues with DWM 21:59:38 oh GUI stuff 22:00:04 on DWM-enabled systems, GDI+ (and GDI) is redirected to DirectX drawable (composed of two triange textures) 22:00:17 *triangle 22:00:32 p_l: Wasn't there already something that didn't involve GDI+...? windows-forms or something like that? 22:00:34 said drawable might be further segmented into smaller parts, of course 22:02:00 nyef: graphic-forms, it uses the older API, GDI, which is C-based and more limited 22:02:00 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:02:17 Right, that. 22:02:23 Said limitations are a problem, then? 22:02:50 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 22:03:06 nyef: partially. GDI+ library is also more powerful and iirc less problematic for multithreaded execution (since it handles multiple context case better) 22:03:26 while iirc GDI can have only one active context globally 22:03:44 Edward [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-30-144.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:04:02 there was more to that, of coure 22:04:05 *of course 22:05:54 Mmm. Okay. 22:06:06 -!- ska` [~user@124.157.253.207] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:06:16 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 22:06:43 also, afaik, the DPI-aware code wasn't available in GDI32 22:06:53 -!- rabar [~jonathans@129-2-175-87.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Quit: rabar] 22:07:27 (of course, I'd prefer to simply get to protocol level with DWM, but that limits me to NT6 and later) 22:07:47 and is probably easy to break 22:08:00 (DWM communicates using shared memory) 22:08:16 rabar [~jonathans@2002:8102:daed:9:21c:b3ff:feb8:35b] has joined #lisp 22:08:19 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:11:40 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:12:40 Is the protocol at least -documented-? 22:13:39 of course not ;-) 22:13:54 at least, I haven't really found much on it, but I wasn't looking too far 22:13:58 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:14:56 though I guess a good look through disassembly data from WPF libs should reveal some, plus there's that DWM API used by apps that don't use WPF 22:15:19 (but I don't think the API got the necessary manipulation routines) 22:15:29 -!- rabar [~jonathans@2002:8102:daed:9:21c:b3ff:feb8:35b] has quit [Quit: rabar] 22:15:47 not the window manager, I gather. 22:17:03 pkhuong: no, though it shares similar name (yes, the "WM" is for Window Manager, last time I checked.) 22:17:22 Dynamic Window Manager or something like that, display server used by NT6 22:18:31 nice thing, since it actually drops the resource usage greatly when you have an apriopriate gpu (which doesn't have to be that powerful) 22:18:54 it can make an interesting case where Vista is faster with Aero running than with it disabled xD 22:19:19 since Aero Glass requires accelerated mode in DWM 22:19:28 dwm is also a "dynamic window manager"... 22:19:51 desktop WM for your thing, says wikipedia. 22:20:04 pkhuong: enjoy name clash. Can it be microsoft:dwm and suckless:dwm? xD 22:20:06 heh 22:22:24 schoppenhauer [~css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 22:22:53 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:23:26 -!- prxq [~mommer@g228081032.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:26:17 -!- boyscared [~bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:27:15 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 22:27:31 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:54 anyway, DWM is mightily superior to GDI/GDI+ 22:33:44 -!- dalkvist [~cairdazar@hd5e24dca.gavlegardarna.gavle.to] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:36:39 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.196.209] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:37:53 schoppen1auer [~css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 22:38:15 -!- schoppenhauer [~css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:42:47 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:45:30 -!- schoppen1auer [~css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:46:49 adamvh [~adamvh@c-69-136-131-100.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:47:01 Adalbert [~Adalbert@host92-118-dynamic.49-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 22:47:58 Is there a library out there for converting (say) a pair of bytes into a signed short integer? 22:48:35 Because if there's one thing I don't trust myself to do right.... 22:48:44 adamvh: well, some of the binary-types libraries might do the trick for getting all definitions etc. 22:48:50 adamvh: i don't know offhand. i tend to roll it myself on demand. 22:49:03 and there's numerous examples of using dpb/ldb to do the necessary manipulations. 22:49:06 minion: binary-types? 22:49:07 binary-types: Binary-types is a Library for accessing binary files with fixed bit-length code-words. http://www.cliki.net/binary-types 22:49:11 minion: pcl? 22:49:12 pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 22:49:47 adamvh: (setf ldb) is pretty good already. You'd only need a sign extension function (an interesting exercise). 22:50:42 Thanks stassats, I had already been using pcl's code for unsigned ints, but I'll definitely look into binary-types 22:51:55 Are C signed shorts always encoded as 2's complement? 22:52:29 adamvh: not defined in the standard, but you can safely assume so these days. 22:52:42 Endianness might be an issue. 22:53:10 -!- hefner [~root@ppp-61-90-82-40.revip.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:53:21 Thanks all! 22:53:23 ... Converting a pair of octets to an unsigned short integer is DPB with a byte-spec of (byte 8 8). 22:53:40 (That is, a 16-bit unsigned integer.) 22:54:58 -!- Edward [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-30-144.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [] 22:55:39 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-185-52.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:56:35 I bought paip today 22:56:39 err, yesterday 22:56:48 I have to say. I am a beginner programmer. 22:56:54 This book is amazing. 22:57:09 Borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:57:32 -!- Adalbert [~Adalbert@host92-118-dynamic.49-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:58:04 you bought it just yesterday, how can you say? 22:59:08 Edward [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-30-144.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:01:27 -!- Edward [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-30-144.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 23:01:33 Edward [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-30-144.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:06:18 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@mk093111074152.a1.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:08:51 kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.125.182.62] has joined #lisp 23:09:22 -!- Edward [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-30-144.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:11:05 stassats`: I skimmed PAIP in one ... ok, let's call it "night" 23:11:14 it certainly wasn't "evening" xD 23:12:40 kvsari [~kvsari@203.171.93.21.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:14:47 -!- varjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:17:08 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.135] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:18:36 -!- saikat_ is now known as saikat 23:19:58 -!- dasilvj [~dasilvj@unaffiliated/dasilvj] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:20:10 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.181.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:20:14 ikki [~ikki@189.247.102.72] has joined #lisp 23:20:48 Joreji [~thomas@77-20-0-213-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 23:22:34 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 23:23:38 dasilvj [~dasilvj@unaffiliated/dasilvj] has joined #lisp 23:27:21 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:27:39 -!- dasilvj [~dasilvj@unaffiliated/dasilvj] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:28:01 rares [~rares@174-26-92-226.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:28:49 bigjust [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 23:29:16 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has left #lisp 23:29:24 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:33 dasilvj [~dasilvj@unaffiliated/dasilvj] has joined #lisp 23:32:23 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.102.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:32:30 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-78-31-55.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:36:15 -!- DrForr [~drforr@pool-173-58-135-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:37:02 netytan [~netytan@85.211.10.7] has joined #lisp 23:37:35 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-20-0-213-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:38:09 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:38:58 -!- bipt` [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:46:05 Edward_ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-66-207.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:47:30 -!- cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 23:47:44 -!- Edward_ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-66-207.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 23:47:51 Edward_ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-66-207.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:48:58 -!- bigjust [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:49:05 -!- rdd [~user@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:50:10 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:50:46 astoon [~astoon@213.141.244.246] has joined #lisp 23:54:46 troussan [~user@c-71-195-63-115.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:57:04 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h80n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 23:58:36 -!- porcelina [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [] 23:58:42 porcelina [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:59:11 -!- troussan [~user@c-71-195-63-115.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]