00:00:58 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.182.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:01:11 ikki [~ikki@189.139.182.231] has joined #lisp 00:02:36 fe[nl]ix [~lacedaemo@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 00:06:59 sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has joined #lisp 00:12:32 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 00:12:58 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:13:19 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-72-79-209-235.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:19 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-72-79-209-235.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:13:19 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 00:14:18 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:14:59 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:16:55 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483DD43.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:20:48 palter_ [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:22:39 -!- TeMPOraL [~temporal@188.147.76.106.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has quit [Quit: bya .•«UPP»•.] 00:28:16 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 00:28:53 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:32:03 -!- palter_ [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter_] 00:32:04 -!- palter_ [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter_] 00:36:05 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 00:36:27 Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:36:51 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Client Quit] 00:37:17 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 00:38:23 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban2.inka-online.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:38:27 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Client Quit] 00:44:30 worldi [~iddqd@HSI-KBW-091-089-175-064.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 00:45:48 -!- bigjust` [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:50:40 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 00:51:34 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-52-155.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 00:52:46 -!- legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-52-155.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Client Quit] 00:53:06 Ooh. I found my old lisphacker codex files. 00:53:09 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-21-33.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:53:09 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:53:22 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-52-155.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 00:53:51 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:54:08 -!- HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:57:36 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:00:26 Hi everyone, when slime loads I get this error: Undefined function: RUN-REPL-EVAL-HOOKS How can I correct this? 01:02:35 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:03:12 nyef: how a core dumped with a start function is different from one dumped without specifyin one? from low-level view in SBCL? 01:03:34 All cores have start functions. 01:03:51 If you look at SLAD, it provides a default start function if you don't. 01:04:43 nyef: well, you can pack a core that uses default function with UPX and it will run, pack it with your own function and it will fail on start 01:04:57 Really? That's neat. 01:05:05 lol 01:05:06 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:05:33 <_3b`> possibly stuff from previous core ends up in a different place from stuff in current image? 01:05:57 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:06:09 <_3b`> or normal build saves core differently 01:06:12 Okay, if memory serves there's a common restart function, and then there's the custom function for the core... maybe. 01:06:25 Seriously, look at what SLAD does. 01:06:27 LeoDioxide [~bob@c-68-59-10-186.hsd1.sc.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:07:40 maden [~maden@dsl-149-241.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 01:08:21 Ugh. Another full build. 01:13:02 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@130.166.209.5] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 01:13:07 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-117-176.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:13:19 minion: logs 01:13:20 logs: #lisp logs are available at http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ (since 2008-09) and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/ (since 2000) 01:15:54 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 01:18:10 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@h80n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has left #lisp 01:18:53 -!- _macro [~macro@shiva.mochimedia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:23:50 how do I define a symbol in lisp? 01:23:54 CL, i guess 01:24:00 make-symbol? 01:24:08 intern? 01:24:31 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:24:32 hmm 01:26:23 "define a symbol" for what purpose? 01:26:55 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 01:27:01 trying to build a tree, and I want my nodes to have a defining symbol 01:27:05 keywords, gensym, make-symbol, intern all have different uses, but all return symbols 01:27:28 just a well-known opaque tag? try a keyword 01:28:00 k 01:28:36 -!- Guthur [~Michael@host81-131-241-198.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Computer says no] 01:29:03 can you compare keywords? 01:29:22 for equality, or for sort ordering? 01:29:29 yes, or no respectively 01:29:40 You can compare keywords for ordering. 01:29:41 (unless you compare symbol-name of the 2 symbols) 01:29:45 Indeed. 01:29:52 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!] 01:29:54 equality... 01:30:16 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 01:30:26 Symbols should be eq-comparable 01:30:35 erm, interned symbols, that is 01:30:42 <_3b`> all symbols 01:30:52 works like a charm, thanks 01:30:52 keywords are symbols. 01:30:55 <_3b`> interning just makes it easier to get the same symbol back from the name 01:31:01 literal interned symbols then :) 01:31:11 waaay above my head :\ 01:31:19 as in, multiple instances in source are the same eq-able symbol 01:31:25 ah 01:31:55 from the same package 01:32:07 <_3b`> you can use #= and ## to put the same uninterned symbol multiple places in source also 01:32:11 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:33:23 I think I'll stick to :name 01:34:04 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 01:34:22 adu [~ajr@pool-74-96-89-29.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:35:30 Ah, damn. Guess that line was necessary after all. :-/ 01:36:31 threeve [~threeve@99-60-9-241.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:41:51 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:42:46 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 01:45:43 netytan [~netytan@85.211.47.172] has joined #lisp 01:46:36 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-71-232-16-117.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 01:52:02 -!- potatishandlarn [potatishan@c-958d72d5.026-58-73746f25.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [] 01:53:01 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 01:53:02 palter_ [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:21b:63ff:fe96:e1ff] has joined #lisp 01:53:02 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:53:02 -!- palter_ is now known as palter 01:59:21 -!- milanj [~milan@93.87.168.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:11:20 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:11:22 schoppenhauer [~css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 02:21:41 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 02:22:23 QinGW [~daf70592@gateway/web/freenode/x-icxxtfrsbfypljqb] has joined #lisp 02:22:47 mik8y [~user@122.199.247.2] has joined #lisp 02:29:29 Heh. And while writing the commit-comment, I realize -why- the line was probably necessary. 02:30:10 pookleblinky [~user@cpe-67-252-140-159.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:31:41 dreampilot_ [~dreampilo@c-67-190-165-149.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:33:48 vxocpwe [~c74ca8c5@gateway/web/freenode/x-dffpdvzaotyojalf] has joined #lisp 02:34:21 -!- vxocpwe [~c74ca8c5@gateway/web/freenode/x-dffpdvzaotyojalf] has left #lisp 02:36:36 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:46:23 -!- bgs000 is now known as bgs100 02:48:13 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has joined #lisp 02:52:32 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:56:05 cmm- [~cmm@bzq-79-181-198-42.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 02:56:27 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 02:57:14 -!- Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Absquatulandus sum] 02:57:19 Ugh. Half an hour for a successful build? I want my tablet back! 02:57:33 Or at least a parallel build. 02:57:33 bigjust [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:57:47 Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:57:55 potatishandlarn [potatishan@c-ab8e72d5.026-58-73746f25.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 02:57:56 And, while I'm at it, proper dependency information so I can do an incremental build. 02:58:45 I don't suppose I could interest you in a lisp that builds itself in about 1 minute? 02:58:55 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-198-179.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:59:00 So long as said lisp is SBCL, sure! 03:00:42 -!- QinGW [~daf70592@gateway/web/freenode/x-icxxtfrsbfypljqb] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:01:53 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@2002:62e2:51c2:0:226:bbff:fe00:80c6] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 03:06:54 benny [~benny@i577A728D.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 03:07:13 -!- dreampilot_ [~dreampilo@c-67-190-165-149.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: dreampilot_] 03:09:44 -!- bgs100 is now known as bgs000 03:10:17 nyef: you should add more code to sbcl so that the long compile times are painful to more sbcl developers. :) 03:11:13 And I suppose you know just what code I should add, right? 03:11:23 sorry, no, I have no idea 03:11:42 There's gotta be something important that's slow to compile, though! 03:11:47 -!- threeve [~threeve@99-60-9-241.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: threeve] 03:12:12 Meh. I think I'll continue on my current path. 03:13:23 Tomorrow morning's hack is to be replacing the current fop-package with something that does its own string-parsing. 03:15:36 -!- LeoDioxide [~bob@c-68-59-10-186.hsd1.sc.comcast.net] has left #lisp 03:16:04 hmmm... penetration testing with win98... can you call it penetration when there's nothing to penetrate? 03:16:29 "Press Alt+F4 to log in." 03:22:18 -!- schoppenhauer [~css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:26:02 *p_l* wonders how to construct a C-compatible function dynamically in runtime... 03:26:13 *nyef* knows. 03:26:38 At least, I know the general outline of how to build something that C can call. 03:26:40 sbcl's callback support code knows, too. 03:26:43 ABI :) 03:26:54 nyef: I have slight idea that what I have (either in brain or on hard drive) is enough as well, but I wonder if it will do the job :P 03:27:05 Only two ways to find out. 03:27:25 nyef: run it and see if it smashes SBCL's stack? 03:27:27 And I suspect that a formal proof would be the harder of the two. 03:27:47 *p_l* is still trying to catch exceptions from C++ to Lisp 03:29:46 p_l: Why? 03:30:34 I rather suspect that foom and I between us have enough proof-of-concept and rough designs to put together the start of C++ exception interop on most modern platforms. 03:30:48 Except windows x64, that is. 03:31:18 -!- c|mell [~cmell@cpc5-acto1-0-0-cust620.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:31:44 (Actually, I wonder... how far down can the windows x64 prologue/epilogue sequence be pared?) 03:32:03 c|mell [~cmell@cpc5-acto1-0-0-cust620.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 03:32:06 Zhivago: I want to have a generic (that is, catch(...){}) handler on top of every call, so that no call to C++ could cause the unwind handler to go into SBCL's stack 03:32:17 -!- c|mell [~cmell@cpc5-acto1-0-0-cust620.4-2.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 03:32:37 Wouldn't you implement that with a trampoline implemented in C++? 03:34:26 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:35:32 Zhivago: I don't know what call I want to make at C++ compile time 03:36:16 -!- netytan [~netytan@85.211.47.172] has quit [Quit: netytan] 03:36:53 and ##c++ wasn't really forthcoming with a way to make a generic trampoline like that 03:37:55 Well, the simple answer would be "don't use exceptions" :) 03:38:29 The other answer would be "catch all exceptions explicitly on the C++ side of the FFI". 03:38:39 Zhivago: ah, but I don't know if the cheeky little bugger known as "this ^(*^%R%$ library that doesn't have a *^(*%^ extern "C" binding" doesn't return exceptions 03:38:57 jmbr [~jmbr@101.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 03:39:08 so I decided that I'd like to have a catch(...) built around every call to C++, so that the exceptions get muted 03:40:19 Wouldn't this problem be better addressed by swig, etc? 03:42:36 -!- Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:42:48 Zhivago: SWIG doesn't handle C++ well, at least unless your implementation is named "Allegro" 03:43:06 And fixing SWIG isn't an option? 03:43:20 nyef: I'd probably end up writing a complete C++ parser to do that 03:43:28 (to take templates into account) 03:43:35 Fair enough. 03:44:55 I already have gcc-xml-ffi to get vtable layout and similar stuff to generate calls to C++ (maybe even subclass C++ classes with callbacks) 03:45:01 Ah, damn. I don't need the first patch in this series anymore. :-( 03:45:15 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:45:17 Oh well. 03:46:31 a class is after all a rather simple thing in c++ 03:48:41 nostoi [~nostoi@22.Red-79-157-92.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 03:48:42 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:53:32 Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:55:56 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 03:57:52 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:58:12 seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:58:33 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 04:01:04 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:01:57 knobo` [~user@90.149.4.182] has joined #lisp 04:02:03 -!- bigjust [~user@adsl-074-232-230-165.sip.asm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:03:05 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 04:03:36 -!- knobo [~user@90.149.4.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:05:25 Anarch [~olaf@c-67-171-37-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:08:00 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@22.Red-79-157-92.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 04:09:13 drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-30.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:10:42 knobo`` [~user@90.149.4.182] has joined #lisp 04:10:43 Good morning! 04:11:42 Hello beach. 04:12:36 Oh, look. It -is- morning. I should finish this hack, not build it, and put the lights out. 04:12:47 -!- knobo` [~user@90.149.4.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:19:07 Shaftoe [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096724744.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 04:20:05 is it at all possible that a closure somehow be unaware of dynamic bindings? 04:20:17 What do you mean by 'unware of'? 04:20:29 I mean that I have a dispatcher function foo 04:20:33 -!- pookleblinky [~user@cpe-67-252-140-159.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:20:52 I (format t ...) a variable in foo and it shows the proper value for the special variable 04:21:10 the dispatcher uses some logic to get a closure stored in a hash table and does a funcall on it 04:21:24 pookleblinky [~pookle@cpe-67-252-140-159.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:21:26 but the function being called displays the incorrect value 04:21:48 And what makes that value incorrect? 04:21:52 it's nil 04:22:01 Where's it being rebound? 04:22:07 And is that the value of the dynamic variable? 04:22:14 the defvar is set to nil, yes. 04:22:23 Well, then it is the correct value. 04:22:27 the dispatcher method, foo, is where there's a top level let 04:22:36 Lexical capture doesn't copy. 04:22:43 (foo (let ((*my-variable* 123)) 04:22:44 ... 04:22:46 ahh. 04:22:47 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-21-246.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire.] 04:23:02 so a closure does a lexical capture only? 04:23:18 Sure, and it lexically captures the dynamic variable. 04:23:25 I see. 04:23:31 But then you go and later modify the value of that variable. 04:23:32 that exaplains exactly the behaviour I'm seeing 04:23:46 I didn't know this. 04:23:55 You probably want (let ((foo *foo*)) (lambda () (let ((*foo* foo)) ...))) or some such. 04:24:07 yes, I will have to do that. 04:24:59 sykopomp pasted "3-star programming in C(L)" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97226 04:25:21 hmm. that's kind of aggravating then though. For example, hunchentoot uses *request* as a special var valid throughout an http request 04:25:32 this would mean that I can't use closures to service those requests, wouldn't it 04:25:50 Why not? 04:26:02 You just need to remember the request. 04:26:26 because as previously stated, they would lexically bind *request* to whatever it was when the closure was first compiled 04:26:30 Do you really want to -capture- the current request in a closure? 04:26:44 No, it wouldn't. 04:26:48 You can't lexically bind a special variable, you can only dynamically bind them. 04:26:52 s/compiled/created/ 04:27:12 hmmm... then I misunderstood what you said earlier. 04:27:20 So if you constructed a callback while processing a request, and stored the request in the closure somewhere there would be no problem. 04:27:40 I see. 04:27:40 ok. 04:27:42 Although I'm not sure why you'd want to do that. 04:27:50 that's not what Id' do. 04:28:01 I was thinking more of closures that I Would keep in a hash table. 04:28:13 created at a previous date 04:28:26 before even the webserver was created, most likely. 04:28:32 Why would you want to capture a request in one of those? 04:28:43 I don't want to capture a request. I want to use it. 04:28:57 example: 04:29:27 foo is the dispatcher. 04:29:45 foo looks at the *request*, determines that it can use closure xyz found in hash table. 04:29:53 I think overloading let to do dynamic rebinding was a confusing mistake. 04:29:54 retrieves xyz, funcall's it. 04:30:00 So, what's the problem? 04:30:00 -!- smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:30:09 xyz was created when *request* was nil 04:30:17 So what? It isn't nil now. 04:30:35 didn't you say the closure lexically captures it? 04:30:44 The variable, not the goddamned value. 04:30:56 No, the earmuffs signify that *request* is a special (not lexical) variable. 04:31:16 yeah. let it be clear. What you're saying now is how I always understood it to work 04:31:28 it's just that I have this weird bug and I don't know what's going on. 04:31:46 I'll lay it again, because minus the detail of *request*, the scenario is exaclty the above: 04:31:55 1) defun dispatcher 04:32:14 2) in dispatcher, let *my-var* a dynamically determined value 04:32:40 3) format t at this point yields proper *my-var* value 04:32:49 4) dispatcher searches in hash table for an already created closure, funcall's it 04:33:02 5) first statement in closure is format t on *my-var*. it returns nil 04:33:22 how can that be 04:33:28 Then your diagnosis is incorrect or *my-var* wasn't defvar'd. 04:33:48 ok. So you're saying it *should*. yes? And there's a bug somwhere 04:34:01 iow: I'm not missing some subtlety about closures 04:34:12 Did you defvar *my-var*? 04:34:31 double checking. my hunch is that maybe it was defvar'd *after* the closures were created. 04:34:53 In which case they are capturing a lexical variable of the same name. 04:35:26 add (declare *my-var* special) at the start of the body of your closure. 04:36:06 aye. I will do that. 04:36:14 kwinz3_ [~kwinz@85.125.182.62] has joined #lisp 04:37:06 yup. that's it. The closures are created before the defvar. 04:37:21 thanks for letting me talk it out loud 04:38:26 -!- worldi [~iddqd@HSI-KBW-091-089-175-064.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: Half ain't true and the rest is lies...] 04:39:14 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.125.182.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:41:13 -!- cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:42:07 -!- Shaftoe [~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096724744.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Shaftoe] 04:44:49 quotemstr [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:45:23 I'm trying to wrap a C function that takes a bitmask of flags as its last parameter. What should the Lisp interface look like? Keyword arguments? A list of symbols that represent flags in the bitset? A fixnum? 04:45:45 -!- rme [rme@clozure-C8F6B6BB.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 04:45:45 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-117-176.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: rme] 04:45:58 It rather depends on what sort of an interface you wish to present. 04:46:15 i'd like to use keyword parameters 04:46:30 nyef: That's what I'm asking about. :-) 04:46:44 Keyword parameters work. 04:47:07 You might look at how CLX does its thing for, say, event masks? 04:47:14 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:49:31 HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 04:50:04 nicdev [~nicdev@st401-249.subnet-254.amherst.edu] has joined #lisp 04:50:07 bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 04:51:59 _macro [~macro@c-67-188-1-34.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:51:59 I believe cl-opengl actually just translates that to the equivalent in lisp 04:52:24 LukeL_ [nobody@unaffiliated/lukel] has joined #lisp 04:52:30 actually, I may be thinking of lb-sdl 04:52:49 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:54:50 -!- anekos_ [~anekos@pl663.nas926.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:58:02 Note to self: Never make your own SDL bindings. lh-sdl is too close to lb-sdl. 04:59:27 Right, I'm putting the light out before I can be tempted to wait to see how this build comes out. 04:59:30 G'night all. 04:59:32 Night. 04:59:36 nite 05:02:23 -!- LukeL_ [nobody@unaffiliated/lukel] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:02:42 lithper2_ [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 05:03:18 -!- mik8y [~user@122.199.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:07:17 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@st401-249.subnet-254.amherst.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:07:22 nicdev [~nicdev@st401-249.subnet-254.amherst.edu] has joined #lisp 05:07:26 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 05:08:44 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 05:10:14 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:10:30 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@101.32.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:15:46 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.60] has joined #lisp 05:19:00 anekos_ [~anekos@pl1017.nas926.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 05:19:14 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:24:41 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 05:29:29 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.225.226] has joined #lisp 05:30:41 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 05:34:28 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-30.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:34:38 suczker [~suczker@gprs25.vodafone.cz] has joined #lisp 05:35:48 pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.196.209] has joined #lisp 05:37:09 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 05:39:44 -!- xinming [~hyy@125.109.252.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:44:37 flip214 [~flip@office01.emerion.com] has joined #lisp 05:44:43 Hello 05:44:50 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-83-2.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 05:45:25 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:45:39 mathrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 05:45:56 I'm trying to use getopt in sbcl; but (asdf:load-system 'getopt) takes a lot of time, because sbcl crawls the whole /usr/lib/ 05:46:29 (and crashes when using strace). Any help how to speed that up? debian unstable, 64bit, asdf:*central-registry* is set. 05:48:59 knobo``` [~user@90.149.4.182] has joined #lisp 05:50:25 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:50:53 -!- knobo`` [~user@90.149.4.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:51:29 xinming [~hyy@125.109.252.103] has joined #lisp 05:52:21 setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:53:25 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.60] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:53:43 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@st401-249.subnet-254.amherst.edu] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 05:54:56 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-83-2.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:55:13 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 06:02:08 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:04:32 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:04:55 -!- nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:04:59 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:05:35 dabr [~dabr@183-244.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 06:06:22 nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 06:09:19 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:13:57 -!- rrice [~rrice@adsl-69-221-169-136.dsl.akrnoh.ameritech.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:19:48 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-21-246.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 06:22:34 -!- dabr [~dabr@183-244.2-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:22:53 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 06:23:13 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 06:26:02 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.182.231] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:27:32 Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 06:27:49 -!- maden [~maden@dsl-149-241.aei.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:29:43 -!- Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Absquatulandus sum] 06:30:16 Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-93-85.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 06:30:51 SpeedBump [~SpeedBump@cpe-173-095-150-096.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:30:54 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 06:31:58 -!- nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:32:31 nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 06:34:02 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 06:34:54 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:35:24 hi all. I'm looking for a data visualization system for use with a lisp SLAM implementation. Anyone have any suggestions or pointers? SLAM == simultaneous localization and mapping, so I'm looking to graph points in 2 or 3 space as well as lines/curves and possibly surfaces. 06:36:37 -!- lithper2_ [~chatzilla@ool-182ffe8f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.2/20100316074819]] 06:38:03 -!- suczker [~suczker@gprs25.vodafone.cz] has quit [] 06:39:00 lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 06:40:05 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:41:27 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:44:03 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:47:15 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: *thud* zzZZzzzZzz...] 06:50:18 aja [~aja@unaffiliated/aja] has joined #lisp 06:56:47 ASau [~user@77.246.231.217] has joined #lisp 06:58:06 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has joined #lisp 06:58:25 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:58:48 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 06:59:10 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:59:42 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757a1c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:00:26 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:03:46 crimson13 [~Randy@d54C07576.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 07:05:38 -!- slaker [~slaker@cpc3-seve13-0-0-cust106.popl.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:07:27 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:09:22 -!- Dodek [dodek@wikipedia/Dodek] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:14:01 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.160.41.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:15:56 -!- aja [~aja@unaffiliated/aja] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:19:50 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 07:21:46 morning 07:23:58 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757a1c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:24:16 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:24:23 morning 07:24:24 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 07:24:47 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757a1c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:24:48 ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has joined #lisp 07:25:17 -!- anekos_ [~anekos@pl1017.nas926.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:27:11 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.225.226] has left #lisp 07:28:20 antifuchs: question re. boinkmarks: is there a way to request graphs with two hand-picked endpoint versions? 07:29:43 rares [~rares@174-26-77-184.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 07:33:42 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:38:19 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:39:39 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:39:46 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:42:20 anekos_ [~anekos@pl761.nas926.p-osaka.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 07:44:15 mega1 [~quassel@4d6f538b.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 07:45:50 -!- p_l [~plasek@gateway/shell/rootnode.net/x-wxcptnnscauqvszr] has quit [K-Lined] 07:51:24 myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has joined #lisp 07:54:21 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-74-96-89-29.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 07:56:40 -!- flip214 [~flip@office01.emerion.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.1.1] 07:58:45 rares1 [~rares@174-26-77-184.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 08:00:19 -!- rares [~rares@174-26-77-184.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:01:56 quotemstr: CFFI has built-in bitfield <=> keyword list support. 08:03:15 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:03:53 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 08:04:47 -!- rares1 [~rares@174-26-77-184.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:06:40 rares [~rares@174-26-77-184.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 08:07:28 -!- deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:11:53 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:18:13 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 08:18:58 -!- rares [~rares@174-26-77-184.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:20:42 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:27:51 on sbcl should this be true? (typep "abc" 'simple-base-string) 08:28:52 what i get is: simple-string T, simple-base-string NIL, base-string NIL 08:30:56 Depends on the default for unicode support, I suspect. 08:31:13 on clisp -ansi all three T 08:31:25 See above. 08:31:32 yeah so the plafform has to decide if a,b,c are base chars or not? 08:31:37 Yes. 08:31:48 alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has joined #lisp 08:31:56 Essentially your type query is examining implementation decisions. 08:32:36 i guess though the only rule i could say is enforcabel is if: simple-string T, simple-base-string T then base-string must be T 08:33:04 You can infer that, yes. 08:33:13 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:33:54 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:34:23 rares [~rares@174-26-77-184.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 08:34:48 i fixed two ansi tests that ABCL fails on my new lisp.. now shooting for two more ;) basically i am failing (typep "" 'simple-base-string) 08:36:21 i gotta figure out why the ansi tests contracted me to return T to that 08:38:31 somecodehere [~ingvar@16.198.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 08:38:31 Well, "" is a string literal consisting entirely of simple characters. 08:38:44 This means that it could certainly be implemented with simple-base-string. 08:38:59 I'm not convinced that it is _required_ to be so implemented. 08:39:27 sbcl says (typep "" 'simple-base-string) ==> NIL 08:39:39 yeah its stil impl dependant 08:40:20 since it may have some elaberate compression to reopresent it 08:45:36 -!- ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:48:38 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 08:50:30 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 08:51:33 -!- HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:54:53 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:56:09 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 08:57:22 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-78-27-247.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:05:14 sunwukong [~vukung@business-80-99-161-225.business.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 09:05:23 hi nikodemus 09:06:49 -!- Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:07:12 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 09:08:14 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-24-82-64-166-6.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:13:14 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 09:15:16 -!- Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:15:20 Ralith [~ralith@69.90.48.97] has joined #lisp 09:15:49 -!- xinming [~hyy@125.109.252.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:16:25 Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 09:17:47 ThomasI [~thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has joined 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[~pooklebli@cpe-67-252-140-159.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:44:14 -!- quotemstr [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:44:14 -!- quotemstr_ is now known as quotemstr 09:49:29 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-24-82-64-166-6.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:51:23 -!- rares [~rares@174-26-77-184.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:53:00 Dodek [dodek@2001:6a0:175:fead::6] has joined #lisp 09:53:21 -!- Dodek [dodek@2001:6a0:175:fead::6] has quit [Changing host] 09:53:21 Dodek [dodek@wikipedia/Dodek] has joined #lisp 09:54:37 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-24-82-64-166-6.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:57:15 -!- Anarch [~olaf@c-67-171-37-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: WILL TROLL FOR FOOD] 09:57:29 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:00:01 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:05:22 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-21-246.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: night] 10:07:23 -!- Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:08:03 cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 10:08:49 kqr [kqr@xkqr.org] has joined #lisp 10:09:28 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:09:34 is there a function to remove nth element of a list non-destructively? (i just presume there is, else i'll get to writing it) 10:10:28 (remove-if (constantly t) sequence :count 1 :start n) 10:10:50 good one 10:10:54 oh 10:10:55 clever 10:11:09 yes, I am :-) 10:11:31 (actually, this is part of lisp lore; I can't remember when or where I found it) 10:12:22 flip214 [~flip@office01.emerion.com] has joined #lisp 10:26:50 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:31:13 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 10:32:55 Yuuhi [benni@p5483AE48.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:34:40 -!- milanj [~milan@93.87.168.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:37:05 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-192-12.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:37:50 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:40:00 nikodemus, re "WITH-DEADLINE &key seconds override"; why is seconds an &key and not mandatory? 10:46:02 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:48:30 if I were writing that, it would be to make sure that the units of the time quantity are explicitly known 10:49:11 attila_lendvai: it's mandatory, it'll barf if you don't specify it 10:49:33 I could see new keys for :milliseconds or :minutes 10:51:24 :picofortnights 10:51:49 yes, those are important for much legacy code 10:52:21 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 10:52:31 at least it doesn't have to support mayan times, as those are running out in a few years anyway ;) 10:52:48 (and yes, I know it's not really "running" out etc) 10:54:44 ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 10:55:05 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:58:51 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:02:33 -!- nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:02:52 nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 11:03:54 nikodemus: Uhm, I use deadlines to periodically enter my event-loop. Deadlines-as-signals just make that work very elegantly. 11:15:00 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 11:17:34 xinming [~hyy@125.109.252.103] has joined #lisp 11:23:25 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c-1bb4e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:25:50 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Exeunt IRC] 11:26:14 freakrobot [~freakrobo@119.96.226.4] has joined #lisp 11:26:28 rares [~rares@174-26-77-184.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 11:26:45 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:27:26 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 11:28:03 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:35:25 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-24-82-64-166-6.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:40:50 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 11:40:54 attila_lendvai: as Phoodus guessed, for clarity 11:41:37 Guthur [~Michael@host81-131-241-198.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:41:45 there are often places where we deal in microsecond or millisecond timeouts as well, so i wanted not to get confused re. units 11:42:11 tcr: i don't know what to say 11:42:54 that's either quite cool, or pushing deadlines into places where they will not quite work as expected 11:43:33 but i'm pretty sure about the timeout-conditions-are-bad issue 11:44:03 because anything that complicates the control flow of a critical section is bad 11:45:24 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 11:46:24 topo [~topo@brln-4dbabd47.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 11:46:31 hi 11:46:48 can anybody tell me which is the relation between moores law and lisp? 11:46:53 -!- lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 11:47:45 same as the relation between moore's law and $any_language 11:47:46 The both occupy the field known as computer science? 11:48:03 s/They 11:49:00 thats all? 11:49:28 ive heard theres a special relation between moores law and lisp 11:49:44 Yes. It depends on being able to use apostrophes properly. 11:50:05 something like following moores law in the future all processors are gonna have multi core and are going to need to run lisp or haskell 11:50:10 is that true? 11:50:21 nikodemus: so you think the darwin/x86-64/threads problem has been lurking but only shows up periodically? 11:50:34 whats special with lisp and moores law? 11:50:37 topo: No. 11:50:50 it seemed to me that 1.0.37.4 didn't exhibit the problem 11:51:04 -!- SpeedBump [~SpeedBump@cpe-173-095-150-096.nc.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 11:51:07 hmm... .3 at least, can't remember about .4 11:51:08 -!- kwinz3_ [~kwinz@85.125.182.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:51:15 ICBW though 11:51:25 topo: Probably what you are mangling is that functional programs do not have internal contention, which makes multiprocessing simpler. 11:51:37 it certainly seems worse than the last time I tried playing around with things (a month or two ago) 11:51:42 whats internal contention? 11:52:02 You might like to invest in a dictionary. 11:52:08 slyrus: i'll test 1.0.37.4 -- since it could actually conceivably have someting to do with this 11:52:10 p_l [~d5050b81@gateway/web/freenode/x-igcjbhjzhwsdueeu] has joined #lisp 11:52:41 yeah, that was the only commit that jumped out at me as being remotely in the the area 11:52:41 *p_l* loves freenode... *NOT* 11:53:05 but yeah, the core-saving tests have been known to suffer mysterious darwin+threads induced breakage 11:53:26 -!- kephas is now known as nowhere_man 11:53:45 ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 11:53:46 nikodemus: They have uses cases like (handler-bind ((deadline-timeout #'(lambda (c) (write-char #\.) (defer-deadline 1.0 c)) (with-deadline ...)) it's kind of neat that no big unwinding has to be done for that, so the run-time penalties are minimized 11:54:54 most of those were tracked down to alignment issues, but IIRC last time it occurred it wasn't resolved and just went away on its own :/ 11:55:20 topo: http://blogs.msdn.com/brandonwerner/archive/2008/09/16/the-rise-of-functional-programming-f-scala-haskell-and-the-failing-of-lisp.aspx 11:55:33 though it seems to deride Common Lisp 11:55:46 thanks ill check it out 11:55:55 tcr: i agree it's neat, but given the amount of re-entrancy and control flow issues we're having with our apis, i'm on the side of more limited but easier-to-use-robustly apis 11:56:21 topo: It was the top google result for "functional programming and concurrency" 11:56:48 haskell is better than lisp? 11:56:50 nikodemus: What is the reason for having to split up into threads.lisp and target-thread.lisp? 11:57:11 topo: Your question is incorrect. 11:57:17 topo: such discussion is going to be highly subjective and not wise in #lisp 11:57:31 Can we just ignore gavino? 11:57:39 tcr: what can and needs to be built on host and what not 11:57:56 topo: I'd say neither. Both are excellent languages, though I'll admit Haskell doesn't seem to have the specter of c.l.l hanging over the community 11:57:58 Guthur: Well, since lisp is a procedural language ... 11:58:09 tcr: i don't think topo is gavino. I sighted him yesterday in ##feebsd 11:58:27 ok 11:58:32 Zhivago: I know I didn't want to really get tied into a semantic discussion 11:59:02 Yes. Meaning is so pre-post-modern. 11:59:02 I was trying to point him in a direction of research 11:59:09 so which are the differences between common lisp and haskell? both are based on the same filosophy isnt it? 11:59:22 topo: Many, and no. 11:59:37 *schmx* gets popcorn. 11:59:37 nikodemus: that's schism is totally magic to me. The types must be known in the host? 11:59:38 they share the same sintaxis , isnt it? 11:59:39 topo: I recommend you learn many languages and learn how to use them, instead of spending time *only* on semantics. And no, Haskell and CL came from rather different backgrounds (though Haskell was first implemented in CL) 11:59:51 topo: No. Do some basic research. 12:00:00 ok 12:00:04 thanks 12:00:06 So I've been off the computer world for some time.. is clbuild still where it is at? 12:00:18 Zhivago: In retrospect posting a link deriding CL in #lisp wasn't wise 12:00:22 haskell doenst have macros inst it? 12:00:29 Guthur: Why? 12:00:35 topo: http://wurstball.de/static/ircview/pictures/749cd15bf9d0254286148f468567b29e.jpg 12:00:36 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:00:58 hahaha 12:01:00 topo: no. Really, read Real World Haskell and Practical Common Lisp 12:01:22 i just read practical common lisp 12:01:41 tritchey [~tritchey@2002:62e2:51c2:0:226:4aff:fe01:c6e] has joined #lisp 12:02:21 topo: well, then read RWH. Both are IMHO comparable books, though RWH is newer and thus might seem more "current" in themes used as examples 12:02:43 ok 12:03:04 topo: /just/ reading is not enough ... you have to program 12:03:13 what Haskell crowd has that makes it easier (not better) than CL is that there's basically only one serious implementation and the packaging/distribution is solved for them (cabal-install is awesome) 12:03:38 hahahaha why lisp fans sees ruby like a big tit girl? 12:03:39 haha 12:03:49 I like big tit girls. 12:03:54 topo: Please do not babble. 12:04:15 back to the magic deadlines topic... 12:06:48 tcr: see cross-thread.lisp for stubs used on the host for the target stuff 12:07:29 -!- p_l [~d5050b81@gateway/web/freenode/x-igcjbhjzhwsdueeu] has left #lisp 12:07:35 p_l [~d5050b81@gateway/web/freenode/x-igcjbhjzhwsdueeu] has joined #lisp 12:11:18 -!- p_l [~d5050b81@gateway/web/freenode/x-igcjbhjzhwsdueeu] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 12:12:02 p_l [~d5050b81@gateway/web/freenode/x-gucycywnvwfrzbwg] has joined #lisp 12:13:02 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 12:13:17 I'm trying to load getopt via asdf; but upon that my sbcl goes through the whole /usr/lib, which takes a fair bit of time. 12:13:41 -!- prxq [~mommer@f051049247.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:13:44 Sadly sbcl crashes if I'm using strace. Is there some way to restrict the search a bit? Using asdf:*central-registry* didn't help. 12:14:39 -!- Guthur [~Michael@host81-131-241-198.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:15:48 -!- fda314925 [~fda314925@211.239.124.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:16:55 flip214: how did you "use" asdf:*central-registry*? what was its value before you tried to "use" it? 12:16:58 minion: tell flip214 about lisppaste 12:16:58 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 12:17:22 flip214: please paste the code you were trying on lisppaste 12:17:45 fda314925 [~fda314925@211.239.124.232] has joined #lisp 12:18:41 josemanuel [~josemanue@40.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 12:20:50 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:21:44 flip214: (and give us the link, of course) 12:24:30 cmm-: asdf:*central-registry* was empty, IIRC. 12:24:33 Paste coming shortly. 12:24:56 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@40.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 12:25:48 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [] 12:26:15 flip214 pasted "asdf slow" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97229 12:27:06 flip214: dohoho 12:27:19 *p_l* sees CLC 12:28:11 flip214: why are you replacing SBCL's ASDF with the one supplied by CLC? 12:28:47 p_l: don't know, just saw that there's a package named cl-asdf and thought that it should have some purpose 12:28:53 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:29:10 flip214: SBCL includes ASDF 12:29:27 without the (require 'asdf ...) it still loops through /usr/lib 12:30:02 And still with strace "memory fault ... the integrity of this image is possibly compromised." 12:30:42 There's a symlink getopt.asd in /usr/share/common-lisp/systems/, so that should be fine, too. 12:31:01 p_l annotated #97229 "SBCL ASDF?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97229#1 12:31:05 -!- myu2 [~myu2@161.90.128.210.bf.2iij.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:31:33 flip214: strace and SBCL aren't on friendly terms, at least that's my experience. 12:31:52 -!- Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.161] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:31:53 you have to remember that SBCL doesn't use SysV ABI internally and strace might muck things up, apparently 12:32:13 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 12:32:40 p_l: with your annotation still going through /usr/lib/ 12:32:53 well, what should I (as an sbcl user) do in that case? Just live with it? 12:33:53 Is there some other way to use these packages (sanely)? 12:33:56 flip214: where is the getopt symlink pointing too etc? 12:34:02 minion: tell flip214 about clbuild 12:34:03 flip214: please look at clbuild: clbuild [common-lisp.net] is a shell script helping with the download, compilation, and invocation of Common Lisp applications. http://www.cliki.net/clbuild 12:34:04 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-185-88.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:34:21 or manually using asdf-install 12:35:22 p_l: it has "../source/getopt/getopt.asd". This debian 64bit, so the default packages should be fine 12:35:28 nikodemus: still here? 12:35:44 *p_l* right now tries to integrate both asdf-install and clbuild 12:35:53 barely 12:36:18 p_l: well, debian has the common-lisp-controller ... but there's no plain clbuild, only a clc-clbuild which wants to re-compile via darcs etc. 12:36:56 flip214: o_O 12:37:24 just use plain clbuild from source + eventually download some packages manually, unpack them and symlink them to clbuild's systems directory 12:37:49 (and clbuild's makes sure to not use Debian-supplied sbclrc by default) 12:38:21 And I'd hoped to just install some packages and go ... well, thank you. Maybe I'll try that next week. 12:38:41 pix4 [~pixel@212.60.130.33] has joined #lisp 12:39:24 Axius [~hi@92.84.21.163] has joined #lisp 12:39:34 flip214: clbuild is easy like debian 12:42:13 flip214: clbuild tends to be "just install and it works", except it only does a certain list of packages (but it's easy to add your own) 12:42:39 nikodemus: why the second atomic-incf when you overflow, in 1.0.37.22? 12:43:03 Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.161] has joined #lisp 12:43:30 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:45:32 Aha! I think I got this morning's hack working, finally. 12:46:04 (Bloody FASL format.) 12:47:09 nyef, while you are at fasl's... it signals a bloody useless message if a package is not available while loading the fasl. the symbol itself is about impossible to extract... 12:47:32 HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:48:18 it happens regularly if someone accidentally redefines a macro that will expand into code with symbols from the wrong package (wron in the sense that it's not part of the dependency, so not available when loading the fasl the next time) 12:48:50 pkhuong: because if we overflow from #xff... to #x0, the overflow counter accounts only for the value _before_ the increment 12:49:31 though i suppose you could account for that in counter-count as well 12:49:35 attila_lendvai: So it dies in find-undeleted-package-or-lose from fop-package? 12:49:39 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-242-153.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit:  UniCode shall rein forever! ] 12:49:47 -!- somecodehere [~ingvar@16.198.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:49:56 and (duh!) obviously the second atomic-incf should be checked for overflow as well... 12:50:10 yeah, counter-count would have been better 12:50:15 nyef, yes. extracting which symbol is it due to is a little project in itself 12:50:26 xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-242-153.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 12:50:29 attila_lendvai: Yeah, the symbol-name would be impossible to get from there, as the package reference is dumped first, sometimes by a long shot. 12:50:39 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:51:38 nikodemus: eh? no, we wrap around correctly. 12:51:46 nyef, is it worth a launchpad feature request, "better error reporting from fasl loading"? 12:52:09 Yes, it's worth the request. 12:52:31 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-6-44.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 12:52:34 The request possibly can't be honored, but we should keep a record of it in case it can. 12:53:01 If we were working with bytes, (+ 0x01 [0x00,0xff]) = [0x01,0x00], for instance. 12:53:08 *attila_lendvai* does that at least if he can't fix the issue itself... 12:54:17 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-52-155.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:56:00 nikodemus pasted "pkhuong?" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97230 12:57:14 yes, what's the problem? 12:57:52 The low word wraps around and the high bignum is incremented by one. 12:59:53 -!- benny [~benny@i577A728D.versanet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:59:56 Happy weekend, thanks for the help. 13:00:00 -!- flip214 [~flip@office01.emerion.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.1.1] 13:00:55 pkhuong: because of the way counter-count is written, we get a miscount from that -- but like i said, it would have been better to change counter-count instead of adding the second atomic-incf 13:00:59 that was a brainfart 13:02:23 nyef, https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/553943 13:02:25 each tick on the overflow counter accounts for most-positive-word, not most-positive-word+1 as it should 13:02:50 oh. 13:04:26 Hee! If this build works, one of the things that has annoyed me about the SBCL build process goes away. ^_^ 13:04:38 the duration? 13:04:48 No, fop-maybe-cold-load. 13:05:01 And fop-normal-load. 13:05:47 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:21b:63ff:fe96:e1ff] has quit [Quit: palter] 13:06:02 felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has joined #lisp 13:07:21 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:21b:63ff:fe96:e1ff] has joined #lisp 13:07:55 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 13:08:42 Is there a list slicing primitive? 13:09:01 ie, (slice (list 1 2 3) 2)->(1 2) 13:09:02 xavieran: what would such a primitive do? 13:09:08 xavieran: subseq is a bit like that. 13:09:21 *xavieran* fires up the interpreter 13:09:40 meh, once again, I'll ask in #scheme :) 13:10:13 I know, this chan isn't about scheme ... :D 13:10:23 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 13:10:29 and now you see it has practical consequences! 13:10:52 Hehe 13:10:55 benny [~benny@i577A728D.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 13:11:47 Is there anything special I need to do when adding new FOPs and making the compiler use them? 13:14:06 -!- kqr [kqr@xkqr.org] has left #lisp 13:15:44 beyond handcoding them into dump.lisp, etc? 13:17:02 and genesis 13:19:13 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:20:01 dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:20:07 rrice [~rrice@adsl-69-221-169-136.dsl.akrnoh.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 13:20:20 -!- Axius [~hi@92.84.21.163] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:21:25 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:25:50 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 13:26:43 -!- ThomasI [~thomas@unaffiliated/thomasi] has quit [Quit: Bye Bye!] 13:28:30 kwinz3_ [~kwinz@mk093111094109.a1.net] has joined #lisp 13:29:12 -!- adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-241-248.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:32:05 Yeah, like a fasl-format version number? 13:33:33 -!- topo [~topo@brln-4dbabd47.pool.mediaWays.net] has left #lisp 13:33:51 I don't think we need that now that fasls are hugely sensitive to core id 13:34:10 Really? I wasn't aware that they were. 13:34:40 Hi everyone, I lost Internet connection last time I was here. Sorry about leaving so abruptly while some of you were helping me. 13:35:01 adeht [~user@bzq-84-110-155-210.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 13:35:12 sorry, not core id, but version.lisp-expr 13:35:25 Good enough, I guess. 13:35:57 mind you, the comment above fasl-format version number suggests doing it anyway 13:36:13 s/above/below/ 13:36:45 Fair enough. Now I just need to -find- that. 13:36:49 And fix my build. 13:36:57 Clearly, I missed something somewhere. 13:37:11 Slime still does not seem to be loading properly for me. I'll paste the contents of *inferior-lisp* 13:37:33 lat pasted "RUN-REPL-EVAL-HOOKS" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97232 13:38:48 seems all fine 13:39:09 I guess you forgot to place (slime-setup '(slime-fancy)) into your .emacs 13:40:20 mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:43:04 tcr, it is there: (slime-setup '(slime-fancy slime-tramp slime-asdf)) 13:43:52 nyef: src/code/early-fasl 13:43:53 tcr, in fact it is there twice. Should I post my .emacs file? 13:43:58 Krystof: Thanks. 13:44:02 lat: perhaps 13:44:47 If my current build works, I'll be down to one place where fop-maybe-cold-load / fop-normal-load gets emitted. 13:45:27 -!- _WOG_ is now known as WOG 13:46:33 lat annotated #97232 ".emacs" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97232#1 13:48:37 That's a lot of junk, I suggest you try the minimal config as output by clbuild 13:50:56 tcr, ok, I'll try that. 13:51:06 deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 13:51:45 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:52:46 -!- redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:52:48 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 13:54:46 -!- deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has quit [Client Quit] 13:55:16 deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 13:55:18 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:55:43 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:57:18 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 13:58:14 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 14:00:35 I've written a function call-with-bindings which uses progv; I'd like to make use of that function in other places, too, in sbcl (say %with-standard-io-syntax); in those places the list of bindings is constant and known at compile-time, so I'd like to compile that down to simple LET bindings. 14:00:46 wormwood_ [~wormwood@pool-70-19-23-147.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:00:58 Now what should I use to implement that optimization? deftransform, defoptimizer, source-transform, compiler-macro? 14:01:16 rme [~rme@pool-70-105-117-176.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:02:55 Reaver1 [~Joachim@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has joined #lisp 14:03:21 -!- wormwood [~wormwood@pool-141-155-165-206.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:03:25 for sbcl code, and if the only possible optimization is whether the list argument is constantp, I would probably use a source transform 14:04:04 unless there's a chance that you would use e.g. (let ((x '(a b c))) (call-with-bindings #'foo x)) where you might need more smarts to detect the constantness, in which case you might need a transform 14:04:12 (I forget how smart constantp is these days) 14:04:42 it's (call-with-bindings +standard-io-syntax-bindings+ ...) so constantp should be enough 14:04:48 it would not be wrong to start off with a deftransform 14:05:34 where to place this stuff, though? 14:05:40 -!- rme [~rme@pool-70-105-117-176.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 14:06:35 I'd choose between ir1opt, ir1-translators, and srctran, I think 14:07:01 for example, funcall is transformed in ir1-translators; values is transformed in ir1opt 14:08:04 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 14:08:32 tcr, using the minimum config output by clbuild did not change the contents of *inferior-lisp* 14:10:55 smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:11:00 -!- quotemstr [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: quotemstr] 14:11:17 I still see two problems; here is the first: WARNING: These Swank interfaces are unimplemented: (DISASSEMBLE-FRAME DUP EXEC-IMAGE MAKE-FD-STREAM SLDB-BREAK-AT-START SLDB-BREAK-ON-RETURN SOCKET-FD) 14:11:29 no problem 14:11:38 You should rather paste the content of *slime-events* 14:12:25 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:12:53 Now to try and figure out why this didn't work for layouts... 14:13:40 lat annotated #97232 "*slime-events*" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97232#2 14:14:21 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 14:14:48 dasilvj [~dasilvj@unaffiliated/dasilvj] has joined #lisp 14:15:55 what's in your .emacs now? 14:16:40 minion: memo for nikodemus: there're some old comment by whn about dx'd functions in CONSTANTLY 14:16:41 Remembered. I'll tell nikodemus when he/she/it next speaks. 14:16:50 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:19:04 tcr, all the old slime code is gone, replaced by the new. Everything else is the same. Also, I place the new slime code at the very bottom of the file. 14:19:54 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:20:26 -!- tcr [~tcr@host178.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:20:51 tcr [~tcr@host178.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 14:21:19 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-89-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:22:02 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 14:23:41 ... Oh. fop-truth returns a cold-interned symbol. That'd do the trick. 14:26:59 wormwood [~wormwood@pool-141-155-170-42.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:27:05 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-89-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:27:11 -!- kwinz3_ [~kwinz@mk093111094109.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:29:29 Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-83-2.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 14:29:40 -!- wormwood_ [~wormwood@pool-70-19-23-147.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:30:36 tcr, I've now removed everything from .emacs except the minimum config output by clbuild. Still no change to the contents of *inferior-lisp* : Undefined function: RUN-REPL-EVAL-HOOKS 14:31:39 why do you try to use the listener-hook stuff? 14:33:03 HG` [~HG@xdslfw139.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 14:34:50 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:06 tcr, I just pasted in the code clbuild made for .emacs. I don't know anything about it. I read through the manual and do what it says as best I can. 14:38:55 could you paste your .emacs again? 14:39:30 -!- sunwukong [~vukung@business-80-99-161-225.business.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:39:47 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:41:37 lat annotated #97232 ".emacs" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97232#3 14:41:40 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:42:38 -!- crimson13 [~Randy@d54C07576.access.telenet.be] has left #lisp 14:43:52 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 14:44:17 tcr, C-M-x yields "Process lisp does not exist" 14:44:49 schoppenhauer [~css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 14:46:56 kqr [kqr@xkqr.org] has joined #lisp 14:48:20 -!- nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:48:35 -!- benny [~benny@i577A728D.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:48:47 hi, i'm pretty new to lisp overall. i have a defvar'ed variable, and i send that as an argument to a function. in that function i want to redefine the variable, so that it stays redefined in the top-level too. is that possible? (i want it as a side-effect, because the return value is used for the real purpose of the function) 14:48:50 benny [~benny@i577A3FBD.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 14:49:05 kind of like a stack pop, when i think of it, but operating on a list 14:49:51 kqr: Set the variable, not the parameter, and it might stick. 14:50:08 Also consider the use of PUSH and POP. 14:50:10 clhs pop 14:50:10 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_pop.htm 14:51:36 hm, i want to pop the first value, regardless of if it is a list or an atom 14:52:07 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 14:52:17 kqr: if you're pretty new to list, maybe it's time to back up and rethink the problem and/or solution. this line of inquiry seems a little fishy. 14:52:22 pretty new to lisp, rather 14:53:09 kqr: you really can't pass "pointers" per se in lisp 14:53:17 what i have is a list of pairs like ((a 1) (b 2) (c 3)) 14:53:27 would it simplify to store them as a list of cons pair? 14:53:34 s/pair/pairs/ 14:53:43 kqr: what are you doing with them? 14:53:56 it'd take a bit less memory, but working with it probably wouldn't be more or less complex 14:54:35 it's for a card came simulation, right now 14:54:41 might turn into something else later 14:56:44 -!- yacin [~yacin@tyr.gtisc.gatech.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:58:20 gz__ [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:58:20 gz_ [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:59:10 -!- gz_ [Clozure@clozure-93943513.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Input/output error] 14:59:10 -!- gz_ [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:59:10 -!- gz__ [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:59:32 gz__ [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:59:32 gz_ [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:59:50 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 15:00:11 -!- ASau [~user@77.246.231.217] has quit [Quit: off] 15:02:17 Xach: I noticed that you have (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op #:zs3) in your zs3 example.. missing a quote 15:03:22 oops! 15:03:24 never mind, i just realised pop should do exactly what i want 15:03:31 adeht: thanks, i'll fix that 15:03:52 wvdschel [~wim@78-20-14-180.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 15:04:23 *Xach* adds it to TheDeadline 15:07:33 gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:09:14 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:11:07 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 15:15:15 yacin [~yacin@tyr.gtisc.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 15:16:02 kpreid [~kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has joined #lisp 15:18:53 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:19:17 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:19:31 if a deftransform sees an improper argument which will result in an error at runtime, what should it do? 15:19:47 -!- gz_ [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has left #lisp 15:19:52 Guthur [~Michael@host81-131-241-198.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 15:19:54 -!- p_l [~d5050b81@gateway/web/freenode/x-gucycywnvwfrzbwg] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:19:54 Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-179-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:19:54 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@c-68-54-179-181.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:19:54 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 15:19:55 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:19:56 Good evening! 15:20:00 should it signal a warning, but still emit code for the runtime call? 15:20:02 tcr: Emit the code to generate the error, and WARN? (or was it STYLE-WARN?) 15:20:07 Hello beach. 15:20:45 Okay, last build of the morning, and hopefully last build for this change series. 15:22:10 -!- _macro [~macro@c-67-188-1-34.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:22:12 Hrm... Okay, not the last build for this change series. I need to rebase to HEAD and remove the first patch in the series... And possibly re-order and combine some stuff anyway. 15:22:34 But hey, no more FOP-MAYBE-COLD-LOAD foolishness! 15:23:52 -!- kqr [kqr@xkqr.org] has left #lisp 15:24:38 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!] 15:24:49 -!- yacin [~yacin@tyr.gtisc.gatech.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:24:53 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Bye bye ppl] 15:25:16 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 15:25:24 gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:26:13 htk_ [~htk___@unaffiliated/htk-/x-9867211] has joined #lisp 15:26:39 -!- gko [~gko@122-116-15-138.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:30:21 roman_ [~roman@bras-6-ge-62.122.200.233.utm.if.ua] has joined #lisp 15:30:22 carlocci [~nes@93.37.195.54] has joined #lisp 15:30:24 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:31:10 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 15:33:15 Russel-Athletic [~engelzz@d174.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has joined #lisp 15:33:16 hiho 15:33:43 Hello. 15:33:46 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 15:33:51 yacin [~yacin@tyr.gtisc.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 15:33:57 i want to search for something in a custom data structure (meaning nested lists) and want to return a specific element for this 15:34:05 what would be the basic function i want to use? 15:34:31 mejja [~user@c-68b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 15:35:03 what does "return a specific element" mean? 15:35:08 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:35:15 Russel-Athletic: Do the lists represent anything? I.e. do you have a pre-define depth? 15:35:19 Why are you using nested lists as a data structure? 15:35:31 example: (list '(a b) '(c d)) and i want to search for a and return b 15:35:43 is this deeply nested, or only 1 level? 15:35:44 depth is maximal 2 15:35:52 member, with the :key keyword 15:36:02 clhs assoc 15:36:03 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_assocc.htm 15:36:13 the function you pass to :key is what you use to extract what to test 15:36:16 reprore [~reprore@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:36:18 assoc is the ticket. 15:36:20 although I guess that will retunr (a b) 15:36:37 Russel-Athletic: I would like to ask the same question as nyef. 15:36:57 Russel-Athletic: And... do your lists represent anything? 15:36:58 is there a function that transforms a list to an assoc? 15:37:16 Russel-Athletic: There is no such thing as an assoc. 15:37:34 Oh, good. My wireless card -isn't- broken. It's network-manager or one of its dependencies that's screwing things up. 15:37:40 quidnunc [~user@bas16-montreal02-1279375297.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 15:37:44 -!- gz__ [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has left #lisp 15:37:50 network manager: the common-lisp-controller of network management? 15:37:50 nyef: I am interested in hearing more about that! 15:38:32 thanks for the help so far 15:38:36 redline6561 [~redline@gate-20.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 15:38:40 beach: Which? Network mangler or fop-maybe-cold-load? 15:38:49 it seems i can use assotiative lists all the way 15:38:50 Russel-Athletic: an a-list is ((key . val) (key . val)...) 15:38:55 Network manager. 15:38:56 a p-list is ((key val) (key val)...) 15:39:05 beach: /query 15:39:13 nyef: Mine is acting up latesly, making the icon disappear from time to time. 15:39:16 fe[nl]ix: ? 15:39:33 Phoodus: really? 15:39:35 -!- roman_ [~roman@bras-6-ge-62.122.200.233.utm.if.ua] has left #lisp 15:39:51 -!- wvdschel [~wim@78-20-14-180.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.2/20100316074819]] 15:40:08 beach: That's not a problem I've really had, so long as the daemon is still running. 15:40:14 lithper2_ [~chatzilla@216.214.176.130] has joined #lisp 15:40:14 Phoodus: if you flatten that, it'd be truer. 15:40:37 nyef: So I guess my wireless hardware really *is* broken! :( 15:41:15 ah, you're right. I havne't used plists in a while :-P 15:41:21 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:41:22 beach: Maybe, maybe not. I just demonstrated that mine isn't broken by disabling NM and configuring the card directly with ifconfig and iwconfig. 15:41:26 Russel-Athletic: p-lists are (key val key val key val...) 15:41:29 (Well, and dhclient3.) 15:41:43 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:21b:63ff:fe96:e1ff] has left #lisp 15:41:58 Phoodus: your original plist description is the same as an alist with lists for vals. 15:41:59 *Phoodus* got confused with erlang proplists, I guess 15:42:11 I was worried about the hardware because I accidentally smashed the thing to the side when moving the computer with it still plugged in (usb wireless device). 15:42:29 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 15:43:52 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 15:44:15 nyef: That worked for me once, when the network icon disappeared. 15:44:25 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:44:29 nyef: But I have had other cases where it didn't work. 15:44:47 Maybe the daemon was still running and getting in the way? 15:44:58 It also only tends to work for unsecured networks. 15:45:05 nyef: Possibly, yes. 15:45:16 nyef: I'll investigate further. Thanks! 15:45:25 Or, in a pinch, wep-protected networks, which might as well be unsecured. 15:45:43 For WPA, you might need to run wpa-supplicant. 15:46:03 nyef: Dispite taking a networking-class this past year, I find I don't know enough. 15:46:32 nyef: Right, I have actually used that in the past, before it all turned icony. 15:46:46 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 15:47:44 Getting the icony bits working in the first place seems to require an up-to-date HAL... And HAL has apparently been placed into maintainance-only mode in favor of other software... 15:48:07 Clearly, linux still isn't ready for the desktop. 15:48:55 nyef: Are you implying that microsoft OS is ? (: 15:49:24 I kind of agree with schmx (hi schmx by the way!). 15:49:28 Oddly enough, they seem to be better at it than linux. 15:49:38 beach: hello there :) 15:49:40 The Mac users at work have more trouble than I do for instance. 15:49:55 -!- ignas [~ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:49:56 [granted, that's not MS] 15:50:09 nyef: tbh I'm not enough familiar with the mac OS or windows OS to know if it is better. I only get called in when it is broken :) 15:51:04 Yay. Survived genesis. Should be home free on this build. 15:52:45 tcr, re *default-special-bindings*... will there be funcallables in it or forms being eval'd? if the latter, why? 15:53:37 because that's what allegro and clisp seem to do 15:55:35 tcr, well, technically... even slot initforms are stored as a lambda 15:57:01 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@84.76.48.250] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:57:26 -!- legumbre_ is now known as legumbre 15:57:29 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban.inka-online.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:00:01 milanj [~milan@79.101.149.37] has joined #lisp 16:01:36 -!- redline6561 [~redline@gate-20.spsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:06:03 redline6561 [~redline@gate-20.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 16:09:38 attila_lendvai: easier debugging 16:09:39 leo2007 [~leo@smaug.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 16:10:45 attila_lendvai: I can't imagine the nightmare of having to debug thread initialization if *d-s-b* contains closures 16:11:44 -!- milanj [~milan@79.101.149.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:12:44 p_l [~d5050b81@gateway/web/freenode/x-daiuxdkcypntalel] has joined #lisp 16:13:29 -!- moah [~gnu@dslb-084-063-191-013.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:16:09 jao [~jao@83.53.26.39] has joined #lisp 16:17:15 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:19:10 Soulman [~kvirc@154.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 16:19:37 -!- Russel-Athletic [~engelzz@d174.stw.stud.uni-saarland.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:20:00 -!- deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:20:44 TeMPOraL [~temporal@188.146.145.133.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has joined #lisp 16:21:40 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:23:02 deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 16:24:43 -!- xinming [~hyy@125.109.252.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:27:04 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:32:01 xinming [~hyy@125.109.241.59] has joined #lisp 16:34:30 -!- bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:34:35 -!- redline6561 [~redline@gate-20.spsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:37:24 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 16:39:19 -!- l_a_m [~nlamiraul@194.51.71.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:39:36 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Client Quit] 16:40:59 threeve [~threeve@99-60-9-241.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:41:42 -!- cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 16:41:47 sykopomp` [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 16:41:48 -!- sykopomp [~user@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:42:49 redline6561 [~redline@gate-20.spsu.edu] has joined #lisp 16:43:31 l_a_m [~nlamiraul@194.51.71.190] has joined #lisp 16:43:38 -!- sykopomp` is now known as sykopomp 16:44:36 maden [~maden@dsl-150-100.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 16:46:31 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 16:49:40 -!- HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:50:42 -!- threeve [~threeve@99-60-9-241.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: threeve] 16:50:58 -!- xinming [~hyy@125.109.241.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:53:25 -!- wormwood [~wormwood@pool-141-155-170-42.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:55:10 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 16:55:29 -!- Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:55:32 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:45 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Get Colloquy for iPhone! http://mobile.colloquy.info] 16:56:46 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:58:40 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:59:02 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 17:00:35 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 17:01:00 -!- TeMPOraL [~temporal@188.146.145.133.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has quit [Quit: g2g .•«UPP»•.] 17:04:16 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 17:04:44 -!- redline6561 [~redline@gate-20.spsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:04:52 buffered [~sk@need.help.with.lisp.su] has joined #lisp 17:06:28 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:06:46 -!- freakrobot [~freakrobo@119.96.226.4] has quit [Quit: freakrobot] 17:10:41 is there are way to force a (read) on a stream to return as soon as possible? right now i'm getting a long wait on the first (read), and then three consequtive fast ones. 17:13:06 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has joined #lisp 17:13:22 What sort of stream are you using READ on? 17:14:50 cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has joined #lisp 17:15:06 SB-SYS:FD-STREAM (SBCL) 17:15:24 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 17:16:06 So... a stream with an underlying file descriptor. What's the file descriptor associated with? 17:16:15 it's associated to a FIFO pipe 17:16:17 (Is it a disk stream, a pipe, a socket, what?) 17:16:41 which is only being read 17:16:42 What host platform? 17:16:47 linux 17:16:51 Hrm. 17:18:24 Bleh, my mental index is shot. 17:18:26 clhs read 17:18:26 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_rd_rd.htm 17:18:35 I should mention that I have no other problems with it, and it *will* read eventually, it just seem to buffer up 17:18:43 slyrus__ [~slyrus@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 17:20:00 That could be buffering on the transmission side... 17:20:36 Or you might try something like read-preserving-whitespace. I'm not sure of the details of your setup, but it might help a bit. 17:20:42 okay 17:20:57 Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 17:21:01 *buffered* double-checks the other site 17:21:55 -!- schoppenhauer [~css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:23:11 schoppenhauer [~css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 17:23:17 such a site would then be double-buffered 17:25:09 xinming [~hyy@125.109.241.59] has joined #lisp 17:27:05 Xach: true, i haven't considered that 17:28:15 -!- Reaver1 [~Joachim@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug] has left #lisp 17:28:28 -!- seangrove [~user@c-67-188-2-246.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:30:15 -!- Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:30:27 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 17:31:58 syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.180.146] has joined #lisp 17:33:55 turns out it isn't 17:34:06 abend [~alx@67.136.131.11] has joined #lisp 17:34:24 did you check it twice? 17:34:31 sorry, this is just a bad joke about your nick. 17:35:30 -!- HG` [~HG@xdslfw139.osnanet.de] has quit [Quit: HG`] 17:36:56 :) 17:36:57 _macro [~macro@shiva.mochimedia.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:30 okay, i'm sensing this might be an OS-specific issue rather than a lisp problem 17:39:15 kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:39:44 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:43:12 Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 17:44:25 I wonder in what environment deftransform expansions will be executed in 17:46:13 wvdschel [~wim@78-20-14-180.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 17:46:16 deftransform expansions are like macroexpansions, aren't they? 17:46:25 I mean the expansion 17:46:37 So do I. 17:46:46 somecodehere [~ingvar@16.198.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 17:46:52 well, it _seems_ like I don't have to care about potential lexical variable capture 17:47:46 Odd. Maybe the variable names have been transformed away by that point or something? 17:48:06 *nyef* is still badly unfamiliar with that part of the compiler. 17:48:10 -!- udzinari` [~user@nat/ibm/x-kfsbuapstiagyuzq] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:48:19 Yes, I think so, they're transformed to unique graph objects 17:48:32 at least that's what I expect 17:48:42 drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-30.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:48:55 In fact I know that 17:49:06 -!- eldragon [~eldragon@84.79.67.254] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:49:13 let->lambda->lambda-var 17:49:30 -!- reprore [~reprore@ntkngw227224.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:49:43 Edward [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-47-161.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:50:12 Joreji [~thomas@77-20-0-213-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 17:53:36 mik8y [~user@122.47.115.98] has joined #lisp 17:53:39 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@rrcs-208-125-58-214.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 17:54:26 TeMPOraL [~temporal@188.147.204.165.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has joined #lisp 17:58:36 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@port-163-adslby-pool46.infonet.by] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:59:02 prxq [~mommer@f051049247.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:59:45 hi 18:00:49 Hello. 18:01:04 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@2002:62e2:51c2:0:226:4aff:fe01:c6e] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:01:51 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 18:02:10 -!- Edward [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-47-161.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:03:23 Ohhh... -Genesis- is the magic to bind fasls into a faster-to-load image segment. 18:03:40 Definately going to have to split it into pieces and move it around. 18:04:30 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-226-81-194.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:05:09 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:217:f2ff:fee7:72d7] has joined #lisp 18:07:02 -!- wvdschel [~wim@78-20-14-180.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.2/20100316074819]] 18:07:31 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 18:07:49 Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 18:09:14 HG` [~HG@xdslhe223.osnanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:10:10 bah 18:10:24 -!- HG` [~HG@xdslhe223.osnanet.de] has quit [Client Quit] 18:10:31 (locally (declare (special *package*)) *package*) 18:10:37 results in a package-lock 18:11:06 Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:11:13 ... Because you're declaring a common-lisp symbol to be special? 18:11:49 Just symbol-value the damed thing. ;-P 18:12:05 well in my case I actually LET+declare-special them 18:12:14 Ah. 18:12:16 so you can bind those via LET, but can't use LET + declare special 18:12:53 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-30.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: A known mistake is better than an unknown truth.] 18:13:26 is (find-if #'evenp '(1 2 :foo)) expected to type-error on :foo? 18:13:30 can one define a method that specializes on built-in streams? 18:13:30 daniel [~daniel@p5082BEF6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:13:44 something like (defmethod met ((input input-stream)) ...) ? 18:14:06 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has left #lisp 18:14:41 foom: yup seems like evenp is supposed to take integers only 18:14:50 tcr: but it should stop when it gets to 2, no? 18:15:05 TeMPOraL: input-stream doesn't name a CL system class. 18:15:06 TeMPOraL: Not portably: input-stream has a predicate, but is not a class. 18:15:20 TeMPOraL: if you use an actual system class, it'd work. 18:15:48 foom: Actually there's a paragraph saying that implementations are allowed to traverse the list as they want as long as they DTRT (e.g. traverse front-to-back even in case of :from-end t) 18:15:50 ok, but can something similar be done? or maybe in general, can I specialize methods on built-in types? 18:16:10 foom: I'd guess that that signalling an error in that case is not TRT, though 18:16:45 This changed recently in SBCL: it used to not signal an error, now (1.0.31.19) it does. 18:17:10 er 18:17:10 -!- daniel_ [~daniel@p5082FFD5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:17:13 1.0.37.19 I meant 18:17:17 foom: I would argue that signalling an error would likely be permitted. 18:17:32 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:18:06 TeMPOraL: you can specialize on built-in classes 18:18:27 TeMPOraL: if you do nifty MOP tricks (filtered functions or generalized specializers) you can specialize on whatever you like 18:19:53 what is the state of sb-threads on bsd platforms? 18:20:07 are they supported? 18:20:18 ok, thx 18:20:20 I was just interested in abstracting-out input and output operations without having to write tons of code... 18:20:35 quotemstr [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:20:35 btw. anyone knows when one can find a list of built-in classes in CL? 18:20:41 simple google search doesn't seem to work 18:20:56 hm... 18:21:02 regarding SBCL, how do I rebuild only the runtime ? 18:21:15 ok, I found it //at least I think 18:21:19 fe[nl]ix: slam.sh iirc 18:21:32 -!- somecodehere [~ingvar@16.198.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:21:48 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 18:22:20 No, slam rebuilds the runtime, any cold-core source files that have been changed, the cold-core, everything that goes into the warm-core, and possibly the contribs. 18:22:31 And you need an after-xc core to even consider using it. 18:25:35 -!- Kolyan [~nartamono@95-27-93-85.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [] 18:25:43 oh, how simple: cd src/runtime; make clean; make 18:25:51 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-24-82-64-166-6.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:26:22 Of course, if anything in the runtime -moves- during the rebuild then you need to re-run genesis-2, and target-2-load. 18:27:55 mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has joined #lisp 18:28:03 So, this change 1.0.36.24 looks like an efficiency loss: it used to return immediately upon finding a matching element 18:28:05 rhickey [~rhickey@ool-4a58e520.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 18:28:07 now it always iterates the entire list 18:28:11 -!- rhickey [~rhickey@ool-4a58e520.dyn.optonline.net] has left #lisp 18:28:32 prxq: I believe that they are supported 18:28:36 ok, one text says that "stream" is a built-in class, but CCL issues warnings about "Undeclared free variables" 18:28:43 so I guess that my "built-in class list" is bogus 18:28:47 foom: Always, or only under certain optimization settings? 18:28:52 nyef: AFAICT always 18:29:09 TeMPOraL: "stream" names a built-in class 18:29:20 TeMPOraL: Or class-names tend to need to be quoted in certain contexts? 18:29:48 ok, false alarm 18:29:49 shame on me 18:30:03 I used class name instead of variable name in method body 18:30:20 (return (values i index)) was changed to (unless find (setf find element position index)) for the not from-end case. 18:31:12 Krystof: great! 18:32:18 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:33:26 Any SBCL hacker wish to comment on http://repo.or.cz/w/sbcl/nyef.git/shortlog/refs/heads/random-cleanups ? 18:34:25 I'm thinking to revert the integer-instead-of-keyword-fixup-kinds and consolidate the layout-names patch to the previous patch and the defer-interning patch. 18:34:54 bipt [~bpt@cl-851.chi-02.us.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:07 But other than those quibbles, is it a net win, and does anything need fixing with it? 18:37:08 -!- Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:37:41 Makoryu [~vt920@pool-71-174-191-10.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:49 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-22-82-249-98-71.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:41:10 -!- quotemstr [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: quotemstr] 18:41:33 quotemstr [~quotemstr@cpe-67-247-228-249.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:42:27 -!- felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:42:42 felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has joined #lisp 18:42:56 nyef: do you have a few minutes ? 18:43:02 Krystof: What should deftransforms expand to in case I know some parameter is bogus? 18:43:14 fe[nl]ix: Yup. What's up? 18:43:29 Or is there some utility that will expand to an error, and at the same time signal a warning at compile-time? 18:44:03 nyef: see comment in Config.x86-64-netbsd 18:44:45 -!- quidnunc [~user@bas16-montreal02-1279375297.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:45:04 why LINKFLAGS instead of LDFLAGS ? 18:45:33 I have no clue, so I'll go with hysterical raisins. 18:46:11 tcr: look at the format transforms 18:46:28 (there's stuff there to detect wrong length of arguments) 18:46:53 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.77.63] has joined #lisp 18:48:08 ok 18:48:45 (Nobody wants to comment on fiddly fasl/genesis changes?) 18:50:03 -!- palter [palter@clozure-78A0C567.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: palter] 18:50:03 -!- palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:217:f2ff:fee7:72d7] has quit [Quit: palter] 18:50:55 the package hang bug is definitively annoying 18:53:08 seangrove [~user@70-36-146-156.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:53:14 YES 18:53:26 it annoys me, and I don't even write any lisp these days 18:55:04 gwynddyllyd [~fintn@201.29.220.12] has joined #lisp 18:56:10 nyef: i'd like to comment, but i don't understand the context or implications. 18:56:27 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:56:34 abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has joined #lisp 18:56:44 -!- Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:57:44 -!- TeMPOraL [~temporal@188.147.204.165.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:58:36 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.180.146] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 19:00:10 dabr [~dabr@124-72.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 19:00:30 redline6561 [~redline@c-66-56-16-250.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:55 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@eris.etla.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:04:30 -!- Nshag [user@lns-bzn-22-82-249-98-71.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:05:02 wvdschel [~wim@78-20-14-180.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 19:05:17 Nshag [user@lns-bzn-22-82-249-98-71.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:06:55 -!- stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-mxaeqbrdlaqzodac] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:07:08 stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-ysnwlrwikbzcaqwb] has joined #lisp 19:08:08 so why does progv allow duplicates but LET does not? 19:09:04 -!- felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:09:22 felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has joined #lisp 19:09:22 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:10:01 <_3b> tcr: let binds in parallel? 19:11:15 so does progv 19:13:31 kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.125.182.62] has joined #lisp 19:13:35 laurence` [~laurence@92.41.19.66.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:14:27 -!- stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-ysnwlrwikbzcaqwb] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:14:35 stokachu [~adam@nat/redhat/x-zbfguonxzkofstlm] has joined #lisp 19:14:43 <_3b> is that specified somewhere? doesn't seem like you would be able to tell 19:15:42 it's not specified what happens with duplicates at all in lambda-lists / let 19:15:56 -!- Guthur [~Michael@host81-131-241-198.range81-131.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:18:48 Edward [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-57-168.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:18:52 <_3b> maybe progv allows duplicates to avoid a runtime check 19:32:15 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 19:37:11 enthymeme [~kraken@130.166.209.13] has joined #lisp 19:39:22 Axius [~hi@92.82.91.233] has joined #lisp 19:43:28 felideon` [~user@12.228.15.162] has joined #lisp 19:43:56 -!- BrianRice [~water@c-76-115-44-87.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:44:13 -!- felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:44:23 -!- felideon` is now known as felideon 19:44:25 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:44:42 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-21-246.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:16 BrianRice [~water@c-76-115-44-87.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:48:49 -!- Axius [~hi@92.82.91.233] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:48:55 -!- felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:49:00 felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has joined #lisp 19:51:13 fe[nl]ix, i don't see how calling eval in *default-special-bindings* helps in debugging stuff... you can used named lambda's and your debugger helps with source locations on high enough debugging 19:51:31 well, i do see, but i don't see now that is a big enough gain 19:52:18 porcelina_ [~kay@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:52:40 eldragon [~eldragon@84.79.67.254] has joined #lisp 19:52:47 What kind of closure would you ever want to push onto the global value of *default-special-bindings*? 19:53:02 Afternoon everyone 19:53:36 tcr: not necessarily onto the global value 19:53:49 -!- Dodek [dodek@wikipedia/Dodek] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:53:56 how do i paste code for this channel? 19:53:59 tcr, i'm just arguing that calling eval n times is unnecessarily slow and i don't see how that makes life that much easier 19:54:18 <_3b> lisppaste: url 19:54:18 To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste. 19:54:35 thx 19:55:09 if it's so, then in general using closures to delay computation should be disadvised in favor of eval 19:55:10 Edward_ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-73-107.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:55:51 attila_lendvai: most uses of *d-s-b* is with a constant value, and in that case (eval 1) and (funcall (lambda () 1)) are equivalent in speed 19:56:07 -!- Edward [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-57-168.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:56:39 fe[nl]ix, you don't really know how people will use dsb... 19:57:24 mega1_ [~quassel@3e44a356.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 19:57:50 what do you use it for at the moment? 19:58:52 -!- felideon [~user@12.228.15.162] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:59:00 -!- rares [~rares@174-26-77-184.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:59:02 rares1 [~rares@174-26-77-184.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:59:25 porcelina_ pasted "idk" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/97252 19:59:39 -!- mega1 [~quassel@4d6f538b.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:59:51 how can i make that open an input stream and an output stream on the same file at once? 20:00:25 ysph [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:01:02 -!- dabr [~dabr@124-72.79-83.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:01:20 tcr, that's not the point. i'm ok without it, although i would have needed it a few times i resolved in different ways and forgot... my point is that i don't see how using forms instead of closures is technically justified 20:01:51 dnolen [~dnolen@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #lisp 20:03:59 It makes the common use case convenient? 20:05:31 -!- jao [~jao@83.53.26.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:06:04 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:06:22 all in all I'm not happy with it being an alist 20:06:49 why ? 20:07:44 it's called "bindings", but bindings are usually lists-of-lists in CL 20:08:03 the only reason it's an alist is because earlier entries should take precedence over later entries 20:08:22 so users can just cons their stuff onto the existing list and have it take effect over the standard bindings 20:08:40 francogrex [~user@91.180.218.232] has joined #lisp 20:09:38 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.125.182.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:09:50 tcr: and that's a very convenient property for this use case 20:10:36 yes it's just that "bindings" is not a good word and I'm not sure how to call it else 20:10:55 environment perhaps 20:11:43 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 20:16:08 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-xo.basistech.com] has joined #lisp 20:18:15 Dodek [dodek@wikipedia/Dodek] has joined #lisp 20:20:43 -!- francogrex [~user@91.180.218.232] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:22:36 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:22:41 kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.125.182.62] has joined #lisp 20:27:19 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 20:27:31 tcr, i don't get it... what is a "common use-case"? that the value expressions will mostly be literals, so who cares that we go through the slow path of an extra eval? that doesn't sound like a pro-eval argument... 20:28:12 and how does it make it convenient? a macro can hide it all away until you get to the debugger. 20:28:35 and arguing that it's easier to debug is like arguing against using closures in general 20:29:01 What do you propose instead? It's an alist between variable name and thunk? 20:29:08 yes 20:29:15 how is that not inconvenient? 20:29:20 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 20:30:06 inconvenient meaning here "harder to type"? a macro can help with that 20:30:16 not that i would add a macro for such a thing... 20:30:41 but defclass does the same thing for the initform, yet noone ever thinks of storing the forms and using eval 20:31:49 that is because defclass is specified to be affected by the lexical environment 20:31:52 loading 100 .asd files takes about 6 seconds. binding sb-ext:*evaluator-mode* to :interpret speeds it up twofold... 20:32:03 threads creation is more like fork() in CL than a lexical construct 20:32:07 tcr, not, that's just a welcomed sideffect 20:32:09 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:33:02 is DEFCLASS really specified to expand to thunks? 20:33:46 from my pov it's just weird to use a slower and more heavy weight structure that is even less flexible (i.e. lack of closed over values) for no apparent reason 20:34:06 ...besides a bit of ease of typing 20:34:50 if I wanted to supply a modified ASDF with a packaging tool, should I try to hook with implementation-supplied one or use mainline? 20:34:55 tcr, there's slot-definition-initfunction 20:35:00 I would be fine with not using EVAL at all, and just use it form constants 20:35:09 for 20:35:50 tcr, that's also taking away flexibility for no apparent reason. and remember, 640k should be enough for everyone... 20:35:55 TeMPOraL [~temporal@178.182.43.39.nat.umts.dynamic.eranet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:37:22 and even if i accept that not using closures makes it simpler to type... this is not something that is used every corner... 20:37:53 and as of heritage: a cross platform lib can easily hide this difference using a macro 20:37:58 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:38:25 You can use closures via eval, too, because closures evaluate to themselves 20:38:26 joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has joined #lisp 20:38:51 So your only argument is the 640k argument you wanted to ridicule myself with? 20:40:34 And I don't believe that the extra call to EVAL will have any significance, it's pretty much always called with self-evaluating objects 20:40:36 tcr, no intention for ridiculing here... i just truely don't understand what using eval gives... 20:41:06 -!- p_l [~d5050b81@gateway/web/freenode/x-daiuxdkcypntalel] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:41:37 a tad little bit of extra flexibility? 20:41:40 tcr, (cl:time (loop repeat 1000 do (eval '(lambda (x) (+ x 2))))) 20:41:55 skraelings [~kean@200.121.197.135] has joined #lisp 20:41:55 you forgot the sharpsign 20:42:41 tcr, eval gives _less_ flexibility in the sense that if you want to capture lexical stuff then you need to build a form yourself 20:43:12 if it goes the closure route you still have to do that just as well 20:43:17 tcr, it's either eval or funcall. someone will give me a promise that my function will be called... 20:43:21 I really do not see the point ?? 20:43:30 -!- rares1 [~rares@174-26-77-184.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:43:32 rares [~rares@174-26-77-184.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:44:11 (let ((hard-to-get-result ...)) (push (lambda () (1+ hard-to-get-result)) *dsb*)) 20:44:30 it's made up, i admit... but we got to flexibility 20:45:04 "somone will have to give me a promise" -- that is 20:45:12 you can just do exactly the same with dsb using eval 20:45:37 HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 20:46:19 ok, then i want to store that lamda, and later call it to update hard-to-get-result, so that new thread will have the new value... it's even more made up, but we're still talking about flexibility and i'm arguing that eval takes away from it 20:47:21 my argument: a closure is a faster and more flexible way of delaying computation than eval 20:48:06 toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:48:17 zoe [~quassel@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:48:41 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:49:31 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:51:47 felideon [~felideon@adsl-223-182-12.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 20:53:10 I don't think it's there for something like that 20:53:26 it's there to create thread-local variable bindings with a trivial initial value 20:53:27 balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 20:53:59 Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 20:53:59 if you want caching, initialize it to :unparsed, and make your get-foo handle that 20:54:37 <_8david`> if it's about trivial cases, why eval it at all? 20:55:04 so you can do (*readtable . *standard-readtable*) 20:55:06 tcr, so, you say that we have a fast and flexible car using little fuel... but as we are only planning to go to the shop next door, we should take the clumsy and fuel consuming one? 20:56:03 <_8david`> (*readtable ., *standard-readtable*) would accomplish that 20:56:43 -!- ysph [~user@24-181-93-165.dhcp.leds.al.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:56:51 uhm only if *standard-readtable* is available at that point, and then externalizability etc 20:56:54 i don't care about this specific case that much... but when designing a public api, one should consider, besides other things, what is the less limiting solution in all imaginable use cases 20:57:41 your request will make all use cases that are sure to exist inconvenient in favor of some contrived imaginable use case? 20:57:52 nowhereman [~pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:58:04 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:58:52 for me inconvenient here means that you need to wrap a form with a lambda about 10-100 times of your professional career 21:00:04 and if it bothers someone that much, then write a trivial macro... little price imho for having a flexible atom instead of a slow and inflexible one... 21:00:21 I suggest you follow up on my posting and try to convince anyone else 21:00:36 that macro could even hide the underlying alist... 21:00:58 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-111-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:01:19 -!- mejja [~user@c-68b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.14/2009090900]] 21:01:22 <_8david`> tcr: so was bxthreads changed on your request? 21:01:33 ? 21:02:00 <_8david`> bxthreads had the API attila_lendvai is requesting, and it was changed away from that some time ago 21:02:18 *attila_lendvai* looks 21:02:51 Nope that was not me. I think that was made to go on par with clisp and franz 21:03:48 -!- skraelings [~kean@200.121.197.135] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 21:04:04 _8david`, as far as i see bxt also uses eval 21:04:21 ...reading the docstring of *default-special-bindings* 21:04:34 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:04:42 balooga1 [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has joined #lisp 21:04:54 it just provides a macro that hides it, so it could very well use closures in the invisible implementation 21:04:58 billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has joined #lisp 21:04:58 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@gw3.tacwap.org] has quit [Changing host] 21:04:58 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 21:05:44 a 21:06:00 -!- porcelina_ [~kay@c-174-51-110-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:06:07 -!- balooga [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:09:17 ccl also does it with EVAL so given that three implementation do it that way, seems reasonable for bt to do it as well 21:10:13 Hmm, for the mel library I'm having a few questions about this. I'm using this over imap, and when I first do my defvar for a global variable to play with, and say the connection closes, then mel-base doesn't know about it. (count-messages) still returns correctly, but maps and (messages) returns nil, which makes sense. What doesn't though is if I type (state *my-var*), it gives :CONNECTED. If I set that variable to disconnected, 21:10:13 then run it (messages) again, the state changes to :CONNECTED correctly, but doesn't actually return anything. There are messages. I've also tried (close-folder) to close it, but reopening the connection appears to be a real issue. 21:11:22 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-20-0-213-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:11:35 I'm wondering if others have run into this, and their solution. I could make a macro, say (with-imap-connection) which would call (make-imap-folder) then let it run out of scope each time. That may fix it, but for playing around with is there another option to just reconnect the connection? setf on that global appears to not really solve the issue for me. 21:11:42 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@212-198-83-2.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:12:41 Actually I guess setf is working..weird, earlier it didn't. map-messages I know didn't, but pulling them all through dolist works as expected 21:12:41 tcr, bt hides it all, so it could put `(funcall ,closure) in there on those platforms 21:12:44 -!- laurence` [~laurence@92.41.19.66.sub.mbb.three.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:12:51 -!- abend [~alx@67.136.131.11] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:14:24 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:15:50 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:19 -!- smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:16:28 ...or better, put the form itself in there, because `(funcall ,closure) would need serializable closures if used in certain ways 21:17:54 -!- gwynddyllyd [~fintn@201.29.220.12] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:18:02 drwho [~drwho@c-71-225-11-30.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:14 -!- mik8y [~user@122.47.115.98] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:22:44 -!- alley_cat [~AlleyCat@sourcemage/elder/alleycat] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:27:19 p_l [~d5050b81@gateway/web/freenode/x-lfznnvslimsanwui] has joined #lisp 21:27:27 damn. Stupid webchat failed 21:27:46 Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 21:27:53 so, a repeat: should I try extending implementation-supplied ASDF, or supply a copy from official source? 21:28:18 unhandled SB!INT:BUG in thread #: 21:28:19 INFO in bad package for target: # 21:28:52 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 21:29:12 hrm seems like I was bitten by sb-foo rather than sb!foo 21:29:21 for the zillionth time :-) 21:35:29 -!- leo2007 [~leo@smaug.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: bye] 21:36:08 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-xo.basistech.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:36:27 netytan [~netytan@85.211.10.7] has joined #lisp 21:37:00 -!- felideon [~felideon@adsl-223-182-12.mia.bellsouth.net] has left #lisp 21:38:13 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:41:37 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f757a1c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:42:21 -!- xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-242-153.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:42:30 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 21:43:58 felideon [~felideon@adsl-223-182-12.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 21:45:36 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:46:13 heh god the more I use macros the more I love them. 21:46:43 TDT: Clearly, they are addictive, therefore bad for you, therefore to be avoided. :-P 21:47:29 heh 21:47:57 The imap thing I mentioned earlier, just decided to write a (with-imap-folder) macro to deal with the issue - very simple, and clean too. 21:48:25 -!- maden [~maden@dsl-150-100.aei.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:48:57 which is the latest/greatest thread compatibility library? bordeaux-threads? 21:48:58 Xantoz_ [~hejhej@c-1bb4e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 21:49:24 -!- Xantoz_ [~hejhej@c-1bb4e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Client Quit] 21:49:26 fisxoj [~fisxoj@80.153.54.203] has joined #lisp 21:50:06 Xantoz [~hejhej@c-1bb4e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 21:51:05 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-192-12.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:51:45 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:51:45 -!- benny [~benny@i577A3FBD.versanet.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:51:45 -!- schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:51:45 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@adsl-75-36-214-244.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:51:45 -!- tltstc [~tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:51:45 -!- bytecolor [~user@adsl-71-137-200-22.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:51:45 -!- rotty [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:51:45 -!- mgr__ [~mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:51:45 -!- sepisultrum [~sepiultru@hcl-club.lu] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:51:45 -!- Phoodus [foo@174-26-247-120.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:51:45 -!- DrForr [~drforr@pool-173-58-135-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:51:45 -!- Drakeson [~user@76-10-161-248.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:51:45 -!- joga [joga@unaffiliated/joga] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:51:45 -!- Borbus [borbus@borbus.kicks-ass.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:51:45 -!- turbo24p1g [~turbo24pr@turbolent.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:51:45 -!- srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:51:45 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@saga.ftbfs.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:51:45 -!- hdurer_ [~hdurer@nat/yahoo/x-nhxnbmtnxrwlrogr] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:51:45 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:51:45 -!- franki^ [~franki@unaffiliated/franki] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:52:13 srcerer_ [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 21:52:40 TDT: what are you using to interact with IMAP? 21:52:42 -!- bgs000 [57o9@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Free shells at 57o9.org] 21:53:00 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 21:53:00 benny [~benny@i577A3FBD.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 21:53:00 schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 21:53:00 slyrus_ [~slyrus@adsl-75-36-214-244.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:00 tltstc [~tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:53:00 bytecolor [~user@adsl-71-137-200-22.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:00 rotty [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has joined #lisp 21:53:00 mgr__ [~mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 21:53:00 sepisultrum [~sepiultru@hcl-club.lu] has joined #lisp 21:53:00 Drakeson [~user@76-10-161-248.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 21:53:00 Phoodus [foo@174-26-247-120.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:00 DrForr [~drforr@pool-173-58-135-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:00 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 21:53:00 joga [joga@unaffiliated/joga] has joined #lisp 21:53:00 Borbus [borbus@borbus.kicks-ass.net] has joined #lisp 21:53:00 turbo24p1g [~turbo24pr@turbolent.com] has joined #lisp 21:53:00 srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 21:53:00 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@saga.ftbfs.de] has joined #lisp 21:53:00 hdurer_ [~hdurer@nat/yahoo/x-nhxnbmtnxrwlrogr] has joined #lisp 21:53:00 franki^ [~franki@unaffiliated/franki] has joined #lisp 21:53:03 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-116-53.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:53:03 -!- srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:53:03 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 21:53:48 -!- sepult is now known as Guest67371 21:54:17 p_l: mel-base 21:54:24 btw, a weird workaround for working with C++ - SIP 21:54:36 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-158-241.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 21:54:49 xavieran [~xavieran@ppp118-209-62-101.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:54:51 Now I only have to write a CL-like wrapper instead of Python :D 21:54:51 p_l: Pretty good library, the documentation I wish was a bit better - but the library itself is pretty intuitive so reading the source hasn't been too bad 21:55:09 CLPython I think exists, i fyou're trying to interact with python 21:56:18 TDT: no no, I'm trying to reuse CPython's FFI wrappers :D 21:56:34 ahh ok 21:56:37 seems less work than going crazy with assembler etc. 21:57:10 wow I didn't know you could access common lisp libraries from python..I knew you could access python stuff from CL but wasn't sure about the other way around. 21:57:32 I used to use python quite a bit before switching over to CL, their data mining libraries are pretty decent. 21:58:23 Guest673` [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-116-53.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:58:35 p_l: smoke might make more sense? 21:59:12 http://techbase.kde.org/Development/Languages/Smoke 22:00:00 -!- Guest673` is now known as speult 22:00:06 And there's already lisp bindings made using that for Qt: commonqt and cl-smoke. Repurposing one to use smoke bindings to another library might not be that hard. 22:00:12 -!- speult is now known as sepult 22:00:19 -!- sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-116-53.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:00:38 -!- Guest67371 [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-116-53.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:00:38 attila_lendvai_ [~ati@89.135.202.127] has joined #lisp 22:00:45 and its C++ parser is better (it understands templates, for example, and is apparently enough to fully support Qt) 22:00:52 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 22:01:04 -!- CrEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:01:31 sepult [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-116-53.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:02:35 speaking of data mining, one of the areas I really would like to find more information at are any lisp libraries that are good with data mining stuff. Something like weka for Java or orange for Python, where you build a table of training data to train various classifiers, then push testing data through to get something out the other end. 22:02:59 I haven't found anything like that for CL through a long time of searching. 22:03:25 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@adsl-89-132-50-112.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Disconnected by services] 22:03:30 -!- attila_lendvai_ is now known as attila_lendvai 22:04:37 there's lisp bindings for qt? 22:05:04 -!- p_l [~d5050b81@gateway/web/freenode/x-lfznnvslimsanwui] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:05:26 porcelina: yes, two. 22:05:32 nyef: ping 22:05:33 http://tobias.rautenkranz.ch/lisp/cl-smoke/ 22:05:34 http://common-lisp.net/project/commonqt/ 22:06:00 p_l [~d5050b81@gateway/web/freenode/x-kzdikuhacahffdao] has joined #lisp 22:06:18 great, got disconnected just after sending my last line... 22:07:11 p_l: did you see my suggestion about using smoke? 22:07:23 foom: nope 22:07:44 foom p_l: smoke might make more sense? 22:07:44 foom http://techbase.kde.org/Development/Languages/Smoke 22:07:44 foom And there's already lisp bindings made using that for Qt: commonqt and cl-smoke. Repurposing one to use smoke bindings to another library might not be that hard. 22:07:52 and regarding smoke - I'm trying to get "closer" than SMOKE and independent from Qt (SMOKE doesn't support non-QT stuff) 22:08:08 They claim to support random C++ libraries 22:08:21 I haven't attempted to test that claim, however. 22:08:32 foom: SMOKE depends on QtObject metaprogramming, last time I checked 22:09:28 fe[nl]ix: Pong. 22:09:34 hmmm.... apparently they added a certaint amount of support for other classes 22:10:14 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:10:14 -!- benny [~benny@i577A3FBD.versanet.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:10:14 -!- schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:10:15 -!- slyrus_ [~slyrus@adsl-75-36-214-244.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:10:15 -!- tltstc [~tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:10:15 -!- bytecolor [~user@adsl-71-137-200-22.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:10:15 -!- rotty [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:10:15 -!- mgr__ [~mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:10:15 -!- sepisultrum [~sepiultru@hcl-club.lu] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:10:15 -!- Phoodus [foo@174-26-247-120.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:10:15 -!- DrForr [~drforr@pool-173-58-135-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:10:15 -!- Drakeson [~user@76-10-161-248.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:10:15 -!- joga [joga@unaffiliated/joga] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:10:15 -!- Borbus [borbus@borbus.kicks-ass.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:10:15 -!- turbo24p1g [~turbo24pr@turbolent.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:10:15 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@saga.ftbfs.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:10:15 -!- hdurer_ [~hdurer@nat/yahoo/x-nhxnbmtnxrwlrogr] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:10:15 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:10:15 -!- franki^ [~franki@unaffiliated/franki] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:10:44 nyef: I'm trying to build sbcl with «-Wl,--as-needed» and 4 contribs fails because SB-SYS:FIND-DYNAMIC-FOREIGN-SYMBOL-ADDRESS is undefined 22:11:02 any idea on how to debug this ? 22:11:06 bytecolor [~user@adsl-71-137-200-22.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 22:11:08 -!- nowhereman is now known as nowhere_man 22:11:16 Drakeson [~user@76-10-161-248.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 22:11:38 No, that seems a little odd... Unless your platform doesn't have working dynamic library loading? 22:11:39 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 22:11:43 -!- nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:12:15 Phoodus [foo@174-26-247-120.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:20 Umm... And I think a few things in the runtime are specifically there for the sole use of contribs, thus might have gotten ditched by --as-needed. 22:12:26 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 22:12:46 sepisultrum [~sepiultru@hcl-club.lu] has joined #lisp 22:12:56 turbo24prg [~turbo24pr@turbolent.com] has joined #lisp 22:12:59 slyrus_ [~slyrus@adsl-75-36-214-244.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:13:10 rvirding [~chatzilla@h80n1c1o1034.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 22:13:19 mgr_ [~mgr@psychonaut.psychlotron.de] has joined #lisp 22:13:22 franki^ [~franki@unaffiliated/franki] has joined #lisp 22:13:48 hdurer_ [~hdurer@nat/yahoo/x-jowfesgfjkkroknd] has joined #lisp 22:14:52 CrEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 22:16:04 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@saga.ftbfs.de] has joined #lisp 22:16:04 rotty [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has joined #lisp 22:16:04 Borbus [borbus@borbus.kicks-ass.net] has joined #lisp 22:16:04 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 22:16:04 schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 22:16:04 tltstc [~tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:16:04 DrForr [~drforr@pool-173-58-135-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:16:04 joga [joga@unaffiliated/joga] has joined #lisp 22:16:07 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:17:43 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 22:18:07 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 22:20:12 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 22:20:24 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@saga.ftbfs.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:20:24 -!- rotty [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:20:24 -!- Borbus [borbus@borbus.kicks-ass.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:20:24 -!- Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:20:24 -!- schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:20:24 -!- tltstc [~tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:20:24 -!- DrForr [~drforr@pool-173-58-135-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:20:24 -!- joga [joga@unaffiliated/joga] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:21:38 silas_ [~silas@93-97-226-95.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:22:28 palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:22:55 Arelius [~user@64.174.9.113] has joined #lisp 22:23:05 ramus_ [~ramus@adsl-99-23-148-227.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:23:41 joga [joga@rikki.fi] has joined #lisp 22:23:41 DrForr [~drforr@pool-173-58-135-135.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:24:16 Borbus [borbus@borbus.kicks-ass.net] has joined #lisp 22:24:22 rotty [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has joined #lisp 22:24:24 schmx [~marcus@c83-254-196-101.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 22:24:24 -!- schmx [~marcus@c83-254-196-101.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Changing host] 22:24:24 schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 22:24:46 -!- palter [~palter@c-75-68-177-225.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:25:04 tltstc [~tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:25:50 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d557540-CM00222d55753d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 22:26:08 Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has joined #lisp 22:27:01 -!- ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-23-150-57.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:29:17 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.77.63] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:29:56 -!- Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:30:21 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@saga.ftbfs.de] has joined #lisp 22:32:20 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@saga.ftbfs.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:33:31 Edward [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-62-37.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:35:00 -!- Edward_ [~Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-73-107.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:39:20 marcelinollano [~marcelino@95.120.168.255] has joined #lisp 22:42:52 ephcon [~ephcon@c-24-34-195-64.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:44:18 -!- felideon is now known as felideon_away 22:45:11 Madsy [~madman@port-83-236-153-34.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 22:45:11 -!- Madsy [~madman@port-83-236-153-34.static.qsc.de] has quit [Changing host] 22:45:11 Madsy [~madman@fu/coder/madsy] has joined #lisp 22:48:32 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.130] has joined #lisp 22:49:18 iisjmii [~iisjmii@dhcp-077-248-135-196.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 22:49:35 -!- felideon_away [~felideon@adsl-223-182-12.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:50:01 Hello, If I have a process that is running in a loop, is there anyway for me to use the REPL while it is running. 22:50:23 <_3b> depends on the lisp and the repl 22:50:38 I'm using sbcl together with slime on emacs 22:50:47 <_3b> not on win32? 22:50:53 no linux 22:51:19 iisjmii: well, you could run the loop in a thread... 22:51:22 <_3b> you could start the loop in a background thread 22:51:52 <_3b> or possibly connect multiple REPLs (not sure how that works though) 22:52:41 when I do this inside slime "(sb-thread:make-thread (start-loop))" the loop starts, but the REPL becomes inactive 22:53:03 -!- blitz_ [~blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:53:16 just like when I start it not in a new thread 22:53:38 <_3b> you are passing the return value of (start-loop) to make-thread, probably not what you intended 22:53:58 <_3b> try (sb-thread:make-thread #'start-loop) 22:55:05 Thank, that worked! (first time I used threads) 22:55:09 *Thanks 22:55:54 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d557540-CM00222d55753d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: airolson] 22:57:36 SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has joined #lisp 23:00:08 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:01:04 -!- abugosh [~Adium@206.225.102.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:01:56 ============================================================================== 23:02:09 bzzbzz: don't sleep on the #\= key 23:02:48 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:03:26 LOL 23:03:28 threeve [~threeve@99-60-9-241.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:03:47 -!- marcelinollano [~marcelino@95.120.168.255] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:04:44 -!- _macro [~macro@shiva.mochimedia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:06:54 _macro [~macro@shiva.mochimedia.net] has joined #lisp 23:08:31 Yay. I might manage to get today's hack committed properly by 9pm... And a good start on the next step by the time I put the lights out. 23:09:35 syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.180.146] has joined #lisp 23:10:49 -!- seangrove [~user@70-36-146-156.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:13:59 -!- ramus_ [~ramus@adsl-99-23-148-227.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 23:14:03 -!- SandGorgon [~OmNomNomO@122.162.124.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:14:03 Does anyone know of any resources online or in print regarding multithreading in lisp, specifically in terms of multithreading GPUs? 23:14:14 ramus [~ramus@adsl-99-23-148-227.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:15:39 *_3b* thinks GPUs look enough like connection machines that *lisp papers might be useful there 23:15:47 ... Wouldn't you need a resource on programming a GPU in lisp in the first place, before worrying about multithreading on them? 23:16:38 -!- balooga1 [~00u4440@147.21.16.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:16:58 quite possibly 23:17:10 <_3b> nyef: there is http://github.com/angavrilov/cl-gpu 23:17:20 <_3b> haven't actually looked closely enough to see if it is useful yet though 23:18:26 _3b: that looks exactly like what I should start looking at 23:18:32 superb 23:19:12 palter [~palter@2002:4b44:b1e1:0:217:f2ff:fee7:72d7] has joined #lisp 23:19:29 So given that the cl-gpu library exists 23:19:42 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 23:19:43 does anyone have a favorite multithreading resource? 23:23:22 -!- wvdschel [~wim@78-20-14-180.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 23:24:21 Hmm, my flatmates are watching a horror film with an owl 23:24:58 -!- silas_ [~silas@93-97-226-95.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: ircII EPIC4-2.10 -- Are we there yet?] 23:25:07 -!- schoppenhauer [~css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:30:17 i bet that's a hoot. 23:30:18 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:30:30 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.180.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:30:32 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@80.153.54.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:30:53 *Xach* groans 23:31:24 does the owl in your flat enjoy horror films? 23:31:34 oh, oops, wrong channel 23:31:36 heheh 23:33:07 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.196.209] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:33:19 gonzojive_ [~red@c-67-188-5-121.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:33:44 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 23:41:37 question: when I want my macro to execute a compile-time loop and generate some repeated code inside (progn, then what kind of expression should I use? 23:41:54 How do you mean? 23:41:59 (dolist... ) doesn't seem to be of much use (it retuns result) 23:42:06 -!- prxq [~mommer@f051049247.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:42:19 Ah. Use loop collect or one of the mapping functions? 23:42:47 I want to convert something like this: (add-keywords :key :word :asdf) to: (progn (add-keyword :key) (add-keyword :word) (add-keyword :asdf)) 23:44:10 (defmacro add-keywords (&rest words) `(progn ,@(loop for word in words collect `(add-keyword ,word)))) ? 23:45:04 *nyef* notes that his perl-fu has deserted him. 23:45:12 wow, looks ok 23:45:15 thanks :) 23:45:19 No problem. 23:45:41 -!- sepult is now known as speult 23:45:45 -!- speult is now known as sepult 23:47:21 ... Yup, my perl-fu has definitely disintegrated. :-/ 23:53:35 -!- cmsimon [~chatzilla@unaffiliated/cmsimon] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100401080539]] 23:55:58 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-158-241.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:57:58 -!- rares [~rares@174-26-77-184.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:58:00 -!- srcerer_ is now known as srcerer 23:58:06 hybrid_mind [~hybrid_mi@unaffiliated/hybrid-mind/x-023851] has joined #lisp 23:59:21 quidnunc [~user@bas16-montreal02-1279375297.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp